Sep 08, 2025 Historic Landmark Commission on 2025-09-08 5:30 PM

Welcome everybody to today's exciting episode of Mr. LaClea and my Commission. So let's start off and do our pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. On this Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one indivisible. Wave arms. All right so the first item is to hear presentations from members of the public. Hearing none, we'll proceed to item three, items for consideration. So I just want to take a moment before we start our item for consideration. We have a new commissioner, John Black. I just want to do nothing but floor real quick to introduce himself. Hello, my name is John Black. I will respond to Jonathan, but I prefer John. I am an author of historical fiction, about half of it's set in 19th or 20th century Texas. It's won some awards that nobody would ever have heard of. I also have a background in governmental and political speech writing and research, which winds up dubbed together with history a lot more often than you think it would. But that's what you need to know for now. Thank you. Welcome, Jonathan. I'm excited to have you on as the commissioner, and we're going to have a good time. All right, so let's move forward to number three, items for consideration. So let's look at 3.8, which is HLC 25-040. First, we need to have a motion and second for approval of the June 9th, 2025 minutes. I hear motion for approval, do I have a second? A second. With a second? And then I will point out something. Please do. In the work session, number 4A, I think just some words got left off at the end of that paragraph, preliminary discussion along North McKinney, Locust, comma, and, and then, that's it. So I'm assuming there was something at the end of that. I'm looking and looking. When we were talking about the historic. Uh-huh. That's what it was. I don't know if that was a minute order, but. No, it does just cut off. I will make the necessary edits. That was when I was out from my surgery, so I will have to find out. No worries. No worries. Just from somebody who wasn't supposed to say it. My recollection is the dot dot dot was the item for discussion. We're going to do the boundaries here and here and. So that will be revisited. Thank you for pointing that out. I appreciate your attention. Any other comments? So we're doing the motion approval with the edits discussed, correct? Yes. Waiting on the discussion. She did not give a second. She said she had a comment. Do I have a second with the addendum suggested by commissioners? Second. Very good. Motion passes. Do we vote? Raise your hand. We approve. Can I get an aye? Also, if you haven't approved. All right. Since nobody's got a hand up, motion passes. All right. Next item for consideration. 3B. HL 25-0002. To hold a meeting, public meeting and consider making recommendations of planning and building commission and city council regarding application for historic landmark design. In accordance with section 29.4 development code property located at 3316 Rose lawn drive. Do you have something to show us? Okay. Okay. Good evening. So as stated, this property is located at 3316 Rose lawn drive. It is on that northeast corner of Rose lawn drive and Rose lawn circle. The property owner is Lee Ann Todd. And I'm going to go into covering the construction dates, but it's circa starting in the 1870s through the 1960s. And it has some face construction. So it is a request for historic landmark designation. It's located in the Denia neighborhood. The zoning is R4. It is a single family residence and it's approximately four acres. So this is the front south facade, which faces Rose lawn drive, and then we have our rear north facade. We have our east and west facades here. And then we have our Southwest facades. It's a very large structure. So I have to get all the angles. And then we have our circa 1960s pool and cabana in the rear. It looks better now. And then the survey, which is part of the application. So this is a property of discussion. And then SAS analysis. So in your backup packet, I provide a lot of text. So I'm going to just kind of do a brief overview and then we can go into discussion. But so 3316 Rose lawn drive does meet the following criteria. It meets criteria three, which reflects the distinguishing characteristic of an architectural type of specimen. Criteria five reflects elements of architectural design, detail, material, or craftsmanship, which represent a significant architectural innovation. Criteria nine, exemplification of the cultural, economic, social, ethnic, ethnic, historical heritage of the city, state, or the United States. And then lastly, criteria 11, identification with a person who significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city, state, or the United States. So criteria three and nine are pretty similar. So I wanted to kind of pair them together on this slide. Criteria three, just talking about how it's a blend of architectural styles ranging from that late Victorian architecture to that mid-century influences with that cabana and pool in the rear. And then criteria nine, talking about kind of that three-phase construction approach and the Victorian influence of the Greek Revival Italianate. So you can kind of see from the examples down here, just so you guys have a visual, this is an Italianate example with that low-hipped roof. Then we have that Greek Revival example with that two-tiered or two-level porch. And then we have 3316 Rose lawn drive. So we kind of see the change in the evolving of that property over time, and I just kind of want to give you guys a timeline here just so you kind of know where it falls. Then criteria five, that's probably the most extensive portion of why this is a really significant and unique property. As stated in your backup, it's constructed in three phases. That first phase is pre-1880, so we have that side gabled hall and parlor style residence, which is outlined here. And then by the 1880s through the 1910s, we see that first addition added right here, which is more of an vernacular addition, adding that porch. And then we also have the second addition, which is the second story addition on that front right there, and it brings in kind of that Greek Revival and that Italianate influence. With the overhanging eaves, we have some of the brackets underneath, and some of that detailing is shown a little bit better within your packet itself. But if you all want me to zoom in, I'm happy to do that as well. And then also we have the pool and cabana in the back constructed, so kind of as stated up here, we're going with that Victorian vernacular all the way to the mid-century and kind of those details. And then lastly, we have Dr. Harold Brenholtz. He was the eighth owner of the property. He taught at North Texas State University. He was a professor of education from 1923 to 1960. He actually helped launch the Ph.D. program for education at the school. He was also one of the original organizers of the Denton Lion Club, which Denton Lion's Club is international and is one of the world's largest service organizations, and he was also very involved as a scoutmaster within the Denton community. So looking further at staff's analysis, it is consistent with our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan, that Goal 1, Policy 1.3, which looks at prioritizing and designating eligible buildings and areas for potential landmarks and historic districts. And then Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan, which is that Goal CC2, which is preserving and maintaining the unique character of Denton. So staff is recommending approval of the request for the historic landmark designation of the property, 3316 First Lawn Drive, as it meets our Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan and our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan, and does meet the additional criteria in our Agenda Development Code. I can stand for any questions. The question I have, I guess, is this is the most unique thing I think I've seen so far in my time here, and that there are several periods kind of represented in this one property. Yeah, it was annexed into the city in 1960, so that's probably partially why we see some of that. You know, we went down the trail of trying to find as many permits as possible. Right, right, right. Not a lot of permits. That wasn't needed, nor was it. A lot of people didn't go for that. So we kind of just see this evolving in the development of the property over time, which is really unique, because a lot of this architecture that we see in Denton is true Tudor Revival or true Craftsman or true bungalow. And so this one, because of where it's located, the fact that it was annexed in 1960, starts to kind of have some of those more city influences, and you see that the property evolved over time. So it's a hidden gem. It's such an interesting hybrid, because then you've got the groovy pool and cabana element. It's like a mullet. It's like, you know, it's got the party in the back. Yeah, and the actual original house is built on wooden beams that were like huge wooden posts are dug into the ground and it's just sitting on lumber, just big old tree stumps. Yeah. Stumps on that front. And then there's no dead space in that two story structure or most of it. You have to run electric and all on the outside because it's just the wood slabs and then the sheet. And you can see the stumps right there on the sides. I even like the fact that the 1960s pool and cabana, that's, you know, that's more than half a century away now so it's not weird to have to look at this area. I mean, it's old enough not to be common. It's not old enough people are thinking about preserving it. So, you know, grabbing some of those pieces now. I, when you said it's a hidden gem. It really is. It's kind of hidden. I have driven by there and not noted not unknown it was a bachelor. Yeah, because you privacy privacy I put up to prove it. And so I went by thought, Oh, was that it. Yeah, you have to look in the circle drive. Right. And you come up with a circle that goes to the water tank that goes to the back and lots of private property to keep off, son. Because people were still in my pairs and beaches, and it really ticked me off. But yeah, we had all these pairs of beaches for a couple of years that would be the swing I don't know in the middle of the night, we had pair of trees from along there and they were gone. So that ticked me off and that's why we put up all those songs. Don't take my fruit. That's the only problem I really had. I haven't had any other kind of problem other than fruit, people stealing fruit. Can you remind me. Yes. So, designation separate from tax. Yes. Right. So this isn't we're not looking at improvement. This is just designation, which then makes it eligible for the next step. Any additional questions. I have met that criteria. Oh, in the last two years, how much you spend to, I had to put in a $13,000 aerobic. So she got the 10,000 right there. And there's always. So the recommendation by staff is for approval of this request. So I'll entertain for the questions or possible motions for accepting staff recommendation. I move that we accept the staff recommendations. Sounds like it passes you down. And thank you for being a guardian of history. Thank you. I really do feel like I'm kind of a guardian because it's not easy to live there but I just love it. I love the old folks. I love the historic part. If you come inside there's a window seat and a diamond window and, you know, there's a fold out ironing board in the wall. It's got one of those. Yeah, it's got one of those. And when we open that window seat, we found a saxophone. I don't know how that and then over time I have people come through and look at the old place like an older gentleman came I used to play here as a boy. I had a gathering a music gathering during 2020 on the front lawn. And one guy's like, Oh, I learned how to swim in that pool when I was a kid. Other people come by, two elder women were burying their mother in Rosehawn Cemetery and they were there as sharecroppers in the 40s, late 40s. And they told stories about how on the front it used to be have a porch, a second story porch. And so they would all sleep on because it faces south. They sleep on the porch in the summer and then now it's a two bedroom one bath upstairs. But it was one big room and they'd all sleep in there in the winter. And of course, it didn't have the pool. It just had a chicken coop. But, you know, it's just interesting to hear stories. People come by. I would love to get an oral history from you at some point. So I'll talk to you after the meeting. How long have you had? I've been there since 93. Wow. December of 93, so it's kind of 94. But yeah. So when I read today about the significant former owner, Dr. Bren Holt's son married my cousin. They were married in the 50s and 60s. And he was gone by the time I was around and could remember. But I remember that they lived that their homestead was on West Oak in the 2200 block of West Oak. Well, fortunately, he has a nephew who has worked for my husband. So and is still around. So I texted him to say, I thought they lived on West Oak. And he said, well, that was after the South House is what they called the Rose Lawn Home. And so this one and his one of Dr. Bren Holt's sons raised his family there. And that's the one I've been visiting with. And he just keeps telling me stories about it. We had four acres next to it. And that caretree is still there. And just all the different things. He's remembering about that. I never had I had no idea that. These are great stories. And I definitely recommend talking to the Denton County Rural History Program. I'll look into that. But let's move forward with our work session here. So the next item up is item four for our work session. Four A is HLC 25-036. This is where we receive a report, hold a discussion in your staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. Do you have any hidden gems for us? I have updates, but I'll wait until anyone if anyone has any designation. So back in June, you will have requested that we send from the list of 2019 that were part of the 2019 plan, but hadn't passed as part of the 2019 preservation plan. So I sent the 35 letters, two of them were incorrect addresses, and I can't there's nothing in the plan to locate where they were supposed to be supposed to be sent except for that list. So, unfortunately, wasn't able to send it to those one property, unfortunately has been abolished since 2019. One property owner has already responded saying they are not interested. And then three additional property owners have stated that they've inquired further since they received the letter of interest and stated that they want to learn more. So I shared some additional information with them, told them to get in contact with me, kind of gave them examples of different designation reports. From that, I've heard at least back from one person saying, give me a year. We just moved in like two months ago. But we're definitely interested, but we just need some time to like get ourselves situated before we take on this fun project. So we at least have one interest. There might be more people who trickle in over time. But yeah, we got all those letters sent and split it up over a couple weeks. Thank you. It was a goal of five to six a week. So that is all completed though. That's great. Thank you. Thank you for that. On those that the address was incorrect. So what was the source of those addresses? They were just from that the 2019 historic preservation plan. So I don't know if they just were using a different type of addressing system when they were kind of picking and choosing. You know, for instance, one of them was on Hickory, but it was three different properties and that address doesn't exist. So I just wondered if any of us might happen to know something about who owned that property. Well, they were all owned by corporations now, the ones that I could locate. But I also didn't know since we were kind of trying to stick to that list. I didn't want to go too far and started sending, you know, six or seven just based off the addresses. But I would say I'm happy to kind of send that to all if you all are still interested in trying to pursue it. But those were just two out of the thirty five. So. All right. Let's move on to work session for point B HLC twenty five zero three eight. Time to talk about the project matrix. Yes. So this is our project matrix that we have. I know we had planned on doing some incentive discussion. That's been kind of just put on hold. But I do want to bring that back to you all at a later date. I'm not sure when just because it takes a bit of time to do some of that background research. So I don't have a status date of when I will bring that back, but just want to let you all know that. And then reviewing that local historic district signage, I know there was a larger discussion about beautification, everything. I plan on bringing that back in either October or November. But that is also on the radar. And then I did want to let you all know our annual update for kind of our we're getting towards the end of the fiscal year and also the calendar year. So we will be bringing the calendar for you all to look at for twenty twenty six and vote on and approve. And then we'll all be giving an annual update. But we only have three more meetings for the remainder of the year. So just make sure you have those noted October 13th, November 10th and December 8th. And obviously, there's always an opportunity that we'll have to do a special call if we can't get form. Is there anything you all want to add to the matrix or just want to get kind of through these remaining items and. I mean, my feeling is let's do some cleanup. Right. Let's do some catch up and clean up. So catch up on some of you. If there are our requests that staff, if you have outstanding goals that you want to get done before the end of your report, maybe we can prioritize a couple of those. Let's see if we can get some easy wins in the last couple of months. Yeah, and then and then, yeah, start thinking about twenty twenty six. That's good. Any other comments, questions? Last call. All right. Hearing none, we'll move to our work session item number five, concluding items. So we came and said we had some concluding items to do. I just want to give you all some updates. So our South Ridge neighborhood historic resource survey staff received the first draft in August. We finished up our draft or review the draft, gave some comments, sent that back to SWCA. And so we are just waiting for them to turn that around. I will do a formal presentation. Once that draft is completely finalized to the commission, just so you all know what they are suggesting, suggesting in terms of eligibility for a national register, but also for the local level in terms of individual landmarks and historic districts. So that will be coming in the future. But just want to let you know that that's progressing, which is really exciting. It was really fun to read. Also, just want to announce that we are going to have an exciting new story map launching sometime in September. I've been working with our GIS team on a revealing lost Denton story map. This is based off kind of what we had done for Denton Revealed Preservation Month back in May of 2022 or 2023, I believe, that I presented with the county. So we're going to turn it into a story map and then we'll be able to add to it over time in terms of revealing the lost parts of Denton. Ghost house. Yeah. So we'll be bringing that up. And then I did want to let you all know just in terms of state law. We have kind of we have changed our posting scheduling. So usually you all receive your packet for HLC that Friday before the Monday meeting. So now staff has to post Tuesday evening the whole week prior so that there's a full three business days posting online. It's state laws of September 1st. So you all are going to be getting your agenda packets the Tuesday prior to the meeting. So be on the lookout. They're not going to be on Fridays anymore, just so that you all are aware. And so that will shift some of the submittal scheduling for some of our COAs and everything. And I'm working on a submittal schedule so that we can get that posted online. So it's more similar to the rest of the applications we take in here in this building. But just want to let you all know that it's shifting up pretty significantly and that applications are going to be due probably three weeks prior now to meetings versus two weeks before. So the staff has time to review. But those are all my updates. I'll just make an extra note because we also had a change of where all communications are done internally now through the City of Denton system. So this is a great opportunity to remind yourself and by yourself I mean me. I have a memo in my phone. It's like check your account to see for upcoming HLC. And so I will set that for for Tuesdays to make sure that I know to go in and look because they also then just so Commissioner Black is familiar. So they always are trying to get a feel if we're going to have quorum. They'll send out the agenda, say are we going to have quorum and that's when we learn like who's out of town or has other things going on. So usually it's like I like to send replies. I don't know if it's annoying but I'm like yeah I'll be there if you're there. No I love when you reply. It's so clear. When I send out the email two weeks before and you reply I put a little gold star by your name. You go up on my list of favorites. Okay so everybody achieved to be on the gold star list of favorites by responding to those emails. But thank you for the reminder and the update that will help us maintain due diligence making sure that we've got quorum well in advance. Fantastic. Any other concluding items? Can I just ask a wild-caught question? Any Halloween upcoming things next month? Check the Denton Halloween website. I have a Halloween themed reading of Julie Joe's on October 25th. Oh alright. Awesome. What kind of content do you get to read? So to a certain extent it depends on whether or not my main publishers manage to push out my collection of supernatural and horror stories set in Texas Hill Country on the door by then. If not I will be reading primarily from Gabriel's Trumpet which is a 1920s supernatural mystery set in jazz era involving jazz music. Well I'll also make members aware that I'm helping with the Historic Denton group and the John Denton Historic Area over on Oak and Hickory to put together some October events that will include guided tours. Basically they're going to be patio vlog parties. So people are going to tour around. Different places will be featured each week through the month of October on Sunday afternoons. And there will be some ghost stories shared about that in addition to the history of the homes and the people that live there and are currently there. So just trying to create a little vlog party. So if they approve it I sent a submission to the association which apparently they're meeting tonight so I guess they're going to discuss it tonight and so I'll have a report for you in October and I'll communicate with the Historic Preservation Officer about it. So that you know and maybe integrate that to some Historic Preservation to check off matrix things. Alright any other wackiness? Curveballs? Announcements? Comments? Statements? I'll leave them set to Hickory. Are they doing, what was it, a friend of mine told me that they're trying to, the mid-century area around Dena? Are they working to... That's work, they're working on it but I was going to say unfortunately Ann you're not on the commission so you can't ask any questions right now. I'm so sorry. I can talk to you afterwards but if no one else has any comments. If no one else has any comments, we can adjourn the meeting. So yeah, how do I do that? How do I close this out? No you just have to say I'm adjourning the meeting at the time. Oh, adjourning the meeting right now at 6 or 4.