WEBVTT

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 Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission's work

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 session at 5 p.m., or 5.01 p.m. I will call this meeting to order with the Quorum President.

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 I'll let the record show that Commissioner Padron is not yet here.

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 She is on her way.

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 We will start with any citizen comments on the consent agenda items.

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 I don't see any clarification for items on the agenda.

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 We do have a full work session scheduled this afternoon, so we're going to go briefly over

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 these until we get to the public hearings.

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 Anybody have any questions on the minutes or the consent agenda item?

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 And there's two minutes because of the revision.

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 Thank you, Commissioner McDuff, for catching that last time.

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 On the items for individual consideration, the first three, A, B, and C, are requested

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 for extension.

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 Is there any questions on those?

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 We'll see the presentation in the regular session.

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 Okay.

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 If no questions at this time, I do want to cover item 4D, FP250023, just because it's

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 a little bit different in that it's not a blanket approval or denial or extension.

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 Good evening, Commission.

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 Angie Manglars, Development Review Manager.

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 This is a final plot for Phase 1A of the Coal Ranch Master Plan Community.

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 This final plot is situated approximately 2,800 feet west of Underwood Road, just north

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 of FM2499.

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 It is 155 acres, and the purpose of the final plot is to establish approximately 417 single-family

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 lots along with common open-space lots and dedicate rights of way and easements necessary

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 to serve the development.

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 At this point in time, they're not quite at full approval.

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 Staff is recommending a conditional approval contingent upon compliance with the Denton

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 Development Code, Section 8.3.2.8, which requires that final approval of civil engineering plans

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 prior to the final plot being approved and being able to be filed.

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 They've satisfied all of the other final plot comments that staff has had.

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 The plot will come back before you all should it receive that conditional approval to remove

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 that condition, so that it could then be filed at the county.

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 So this doesn't allow them to file the plot.

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 It does allow them to continue to progress forward, but the plot will come back before

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 you all once those conditions have been satisfied for final approval and filing at the county.

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 Any questions on this item?

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 Seeing none, thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 It brings us to our public hearings, Commissioner McDade.

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 We're going to go to 5A, so if you'd like to recuse, you can step in the back room.

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 This is item 5A, PDA 250003A for the Gateway of Denton Signs.

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 You don't look quite like Mia.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission.

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 Haley Zygurski, Assistant Planning Director, filling in for Mia Hines this evening.

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 So the request before you this evening is approval of a PD amendment to incorporate

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 special sign standards for the Vintage Travel Plaza, which is located at the southeast corner

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 of Vintage and I-35W.

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 The development came before you all a couple of years ago for site plan approval for a

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 travel center that includes a convenience store fueling station, car wash, and a couple

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 of restaurants within the development.

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 So they have now completed their civil engineering plans, their final plat, and realized that

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 they need to deviate from the city's sign code.

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 So the request before you is for establishing those sign standards to allow the pole sign

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 that you see here on the screen to be slightly larger and taller than what would be incorporated

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 or what would be allowed normally under the sign code.

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 In exchange, they are offering to impose limitations in terms of the number of signs that can be

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 on site overall.

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 So all of that detail we can get into in the regular meeting, but staff is recommending

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 approval of this as it complies with not only the criteria for a special sign district,

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 but also plan development amendments and all other applications under the DVC.

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 And I'm happy to answer any questions.

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 Any other questions, especially of facts that weren't included in the agenda sheet?

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 Commissioner Dyer, you look like you have something.

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 I do.

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 Okay.

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 So I'm just looking, you know, at where this travel station is going to be and the sign

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 and I get why they want to have it because this is set back off of Interstate 35W.

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 But I also know that Interstate 35W is about to, you know, at some point get frontage roads

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 and the 288 loop is going to come down to the west and go in 2449.

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 So I don't know if, you know, there's plans for 2449 to get because right now it's just

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 a two lane, if that's going to get increased to a four lane down the road, like the placement

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 of this sign, will this be impacted by all of that future road improvement?

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 Sure.

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 It's my understanding through the applicant working through the civil engineering plan

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 and plat review process that all of that right of way that's needed for those roads is accounted

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 for.

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 So this development should not be impacted by either the I-35 project or future loop

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 288.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Any other questions?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 That brings us to item 5B, excuse me, S25-0002 for Palladium Denton West.

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 Hello, Sean.

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 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

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 Let me go ahead and open up my item here, which I'm hoping is here.

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 Let's see.

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 Thank you.

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 I believe you.

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 See here?

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 Oh, there it is.

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 No?

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 There we are.

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 Thank you.

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 There we are.

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 All right.

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 So this item is S25-0002, the Palladium Denton West project.

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 This is a request for a specific use permit to allow for a multifamily use on approximately

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 4.1 acres of land on the east side of Fall Meadow Street, right near the intersection

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 of Garden View Circle and Fall Meadow Street.

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 We are recommending approval.

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 This does comply with our future land use map and meets the criteria for approval.

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 And we will, of course, get into that in more detail in our work session presentation.

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 And we'll remind you, your primary decision-making criteria will be those within the code for

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 SUPs.

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 However, I do want to take a minute because this is the first presentation, sorry, this

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 is the first project that's going to take advantage of our Chapter 212 Incentives for

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 Affordable Housing.

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 And so I want to briefly address what they're doing with that and how this meets those requirements,

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 just so you have that background and you have that understanding as we discuss their site

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 plan and their landscape plan later, because there will be some modifications to both of

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 those based on their taking advantage of these incentives.

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 So as some of you all may remember, back in 2024, this proposal came before you all and

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 then went to City Council and was approved to have a number of possible flexibility incentives

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 built into our development code in order to encourage affordable housing.

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 So essentially based on the amount of affordable housing and the amount of affordable housing

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 at certain levels, which you can see different levels there on the table, three to four to

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 five, six to seven, eight to nine, incentives, flexibility could be allowed for a project,

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 depending on how much they're providing.

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 So that would be areas in which they would not be required to meet the standard requirements

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 that any other development would, based on providing that additional affordable housing.

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 This project is proposing to provide affordable housing that would meet that first tier, three

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 or fewer.

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 And I have provided the percentages there in green that they are providing in terms

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 of housing at the extremely low, very low and low income moderate levels.

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 As you can see, they're exceeding the percentage for all of those.

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 Based on that, they will be taking advantage of three incentives, the parking reduction,

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 a landscape point reduction and a height increase.

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 And I will flag those as I'm going through my presentation later so that you can see

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 exactly how those worked out.

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 But all three of those are options they're able to take advantage of because they're

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 providing affordable housing.

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 Again, as I noted, housing affordability is not one of the criteria that we evaluate SUPs

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 on.

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 But just so you have that understanding when these come in, that's why they were granted

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 the ability to have some of that flexibility in their plans.

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 With that, that's my work session announcement.

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 Happy to answer any questions you all have.

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 Any questions?

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 I don't see any.

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 Thank you very much, Shawn.

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 Thank you.

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 It's exciting to see from planning to a project planned within less than a year, I think.

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 So, good job.

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 Hold on just a second, Julie.

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 Given the fact that Commissioner Padrone is not here yet, I'm going to motion that we

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 table item 3A and do 3B first, if that's okay, if there's no objection, and do the annexation

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 work session.

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 Would that be okay?

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 Yeah, that's fine.

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 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think she'll be here soon; she's on her way, so.

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 Okay, good evening, everyone.

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 Angie Manglaris, Development Review Manager.

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 And today, in continuing with our boot camp series, we will be covering annexations and

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 what that process looks like.

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 So as part of our boot camp today, I'm going to go over a couple of key definitions, a

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 little bit about state law.

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 We'll talk about the City of Denton's annexation history, review annexation procedures and

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 non-annexation agreements, and then we'll kind of walk through an example for what it

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 looks like from going from a non-annexation agreement to inside the city limits.

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 So first, annexation is the means by which cities expand their boundaries.

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 We are allowed to annex from our extraterritorial jurisdiction.

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 I have a map that shows that on the next slide, but the ETJ is the unincorporated area contiguous

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 to municipal boundaries.

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 The area of the ETJ depends on the municipality's population.

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 So the City of Denton, we are over 100,000 in our population, and so our ETJ extends

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 out five miles from our city boundaries.

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 That ETJ doesn't get any bigger.

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 What we have is what we got, but that's kind of setting that stage.

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 So this map here shows the city limits in green, ETJ Division 1 in the mustardy yellow,

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 and ETJ Division 2 in the pinkish purple.

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 So the city maintains an ILA with Denton County that establishes ETJ Divisions 1 and 2 and

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 spells out those requirements.

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 So in ETJ Division 1, which is the area in yellow, we are able to apply the DDC subdivision

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 requirements as well as some of our civil engineering plan requirements when it comes

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 to reviewing infrastructure that may be tying into our water and wastewater.

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 In ETJ Division 2, really, development and subdivision of land are all subject to the

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 Denton County and state law requirements.

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 This chart kind of helps explain the differences in some of the key topics that you all see

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 on a daily basis and where it varies from city limits to ETJ Division 1 and ETJ Division

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 2.

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 So you'll see in city limits, we have zoning authority, we have subdivision regulations,

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 we have tree preservation requirements and gas well requirements.

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 When you go to ETJ Division 1, we're really just looking at those subdivision requirements

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 where we have authority and then in ETJ Division 2, we don't really review anything.

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 State annexation law has changed a lot over the years and it continues to change.

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 I'm not going to go through all of these in depth, but a couple of things I want to highlight.

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 So over the years, cities' abilities to annex, especially involuntarily, have gradually been

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 reduced.

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 And so in 2007, it was required that cities be able to offer development agreements in

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 lieu of annexing properties that they were wanting to acquire, and that's where our non-annexation

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 agreements really started to come from, and we'll talk more about those in a minute.

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 And as time has gone on, in 2019, cities' ability to involuntarily annex property was

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 really, really restricted.

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 So when we see most of our annexations today, they're coming from properties that may have

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 had a non-annexation agreement on them.

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 And then before we go any further, it's always kind of helpful to see a history of annexation

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 over time, so we're going to kind of walk through the city of Denton's annexation history

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 from 1945 to today, and so you'll see that the city limits is in gray, and then as we

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 expand area, you'll see it come online in a lighter green.

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 So you can see there's some growth in the '60s where we start to annex, but in the '70s

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 and the '80s, you'll see significant growth, as well as some strip annexations, starting

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 to add some property along the northern perimeters, and then areas like ropes and ranch come online,

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 along with some additional annexations where you have landmark today and further up to

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 the north, and then starting to fill in sort of what we call donut holes from then to now.

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 That's kind of a brief time lapse.

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 We can, if you want, later on go through those bit by bit if you want to see in more detail.

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 Or we could do it now.

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 So anyway, the Texas Local Government Code Chapter 43 does spell out procedures for municipal

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 annexation, including regulations.

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 You do have to provide for continuity of use for the use that is on that property at the

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 time.

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 You do have to outline when annexing a property annexation plan, including specific timeline

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 requirements.

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 Property that is annexed into the city does have to be a minimum 1,000 feet in width,

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 and the maximum amount that a city can annex each year is 10% of its total land area.

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 In addition, annexations do have to come with provision of service, and so we have what's

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 called a municipal service agreement that we enter into with the property owner when

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 annexing.

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 In addition to all of that, the City of Denton's city charter and the Denton Development Code

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 spell out steps in the annexation process, and that includes providing that municipal

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 services agreement, noticing of the annexation, conducting public hearings and ordinance readings,

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 and then providing for an effective date for that annexation.

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 And we're going to go through an example that will kind of explain how that all works.

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 So as I mentioned earlier, state law does require that the cities offer owners of property

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 that the city wants to annex a non-annexation agreement.

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 If the property meets any of these uses, so agricultural, wildlife management, timber

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 use, the city also offered non-annexation agreements to areas that were used for single-family

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 residential.

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 And so these were initially offered to landowners between 2010 and 2016.

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 Those initial non-annexation agreements were valid through August of 2020.

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 At that time, extensions were offered, and those are valid through August of 2040.

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 Non-annexation agreements require that the property be used for single-family residential

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 or agricultural, wildlife timber-related uses.

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 The City of Denton regulations do apply to proposed developments on non-annexation properties.

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 So development applications and building permits do need to be submitted through the City of

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 Denton for review.

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 So that is a little different than the other properties we talked about in our ETJ.

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 Land may be subdivided for non-annexation agreements, however, it needs to maintain

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 a minimum five acres in size.

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 So we talked a lot about kind of how those processes work.

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 It does help a little bit with the annexations, because there's a lot going on to kind of

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 see it in real time.

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 So we'll walk through an example.

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 So this right here is our little, we call them donut holes, right?

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 It's surrounded by city limits.

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 But this particular little piece has not yet been annexed.

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 It's still located in the city's ETJ.

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 This particular piece of property has been used for agricultural reasons for the last

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 30 years.

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 This landowner chose to enter into a non-annexation agreement with the city in 2010.

00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:12.320
 And since 2010, all of the areas around this non-annexation agreement property have been

00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:17.380
 developed with higher intensity residential and commercial uses.

00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:24.320
 So now it's time to retire, sell the property, interested in selling it for development,

00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:26.780
 and come to the city and want to talk about how can I do that.

00:19:26.780 --> 00:19:30.800
 So first thing we're going to do is say, what does the non-annexation agreement say?

00:19:30.800 --> 00:19:34.760
 In this case, it says that the non-annexation agreement is valid provided that this property

00:19:34.760 --> 00:19:40.640
 continues to be used for farm and ranch-related uses or single-family detached dwellings provided

00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.360
 those are five acres and greater.

00:19:42.360 --> 00:19:46.320
 So in this case, the non-annexation agreement's not going to allow for the development this

00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:47.320
 property owner wants.

00:19:47.320 --> 00:19:51.760
 They'd like a little bit higher residential density, so they're going to begin the process

00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:55.300
 of annexing into the city.

00:19:55.300 --> 00:19:58.340
 So here that really begins with the municipal services agreement.

00:19:58.340 --> 00:20:02.480
 This is the first step in the annexation process.

00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:08.180
 The Texas Local Government Code does state that if a municipality is to annex property,

00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:13.220
 it does first need to negotiate and enter into a written service agreement that provides

00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:16.640
 for services to the area to be annexed.

00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:21.700
 So the city of Denton has a standard municipal services agreement that does negotiate and

00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:26.880
 provide for the provision of streets, water, wastewater, police, fire, really any service

00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:33.600
 that any landowner inside the city of Denton receives, those annexing into the city must

00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:35.400
 also receive.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.440
 And then as part of that step, the MSA ordinance will adopt an annexation schedule that will

00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:45.640
 outline the process going forward from the adoption of the municipal services agreement

00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:50.280
 to being annexed into the city.

00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:54.960
 So once that municipal services agreement is adopted, city council will hold a public

00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.620
 hearing regarding the annexation, and then following that public hearing, the first reading

00:20:59.620 --> 00:21:04.540
 of the annexation ordinance is read into the record at city council.

00:21:04.540 --> 00:21:08.520
 Once that has occurred, the entire annexation ordinance is then published in the Denton

00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:09.520
 Record Chronicle.

00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:16.140
 And per the city charter, the annexation can't be acted on for 30 days following publication.

00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:20.300
 So roughly 30 days, but usually a little bit longer, the second reading of the annexation

00:21:20.300 --> 00:21:27.220
 ordinance occurs, and at that time, city council can take action and approve or deny that annexation

00:21:27.220 --> 00:21:28.220
 ordinance.

00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:32.180
 But all of those steps need to occur first, including that 30-day waiting period prior

00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:38.820
 to city council being able to act on the annexation ordinance.

00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:40.260
 So now you're in the city.

00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:41.260
 What now?

00:21:41.260 --> 00:21:42.900
 What happens next?

00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:48.660
 So annexation ordinances are typically effective immediately after adoption, and annexed properties

00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:53.140
 are automatically assigned a placeholder designation of rural residential.

00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:58.300
 So this is not necessarily their initial zoning, but we do have to provide a placeholder zoning

00:21:58.300 --> 00:22:02.580
 designation once a property comes into the city.

00:22:02.580 --> 00:22:04.500
 We use rural residential.

00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:09.700
 So after that has occurred, the properties in the city limits, it's at that time that

00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:14.860
 they can then pursue your typical rezoning and development procedures, which is typically

00:22:14.860 --> 00:22:16.860
 where you all will come in.

00:22:16.860 --> 00:22:20.460
 So they've been answered to the city, they have a placeholder designation, typically

00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:24.520
 if we were following this example, they'd be pursuing a zoning designation that would

00:22:24.520 --> 00:22:27.940
 allow them the type of development they're wanting to see, and would come before this

00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:31.740
 body to get that approval.

00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:32.740
 That's annexation.

00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:38.540
 Kind of in a nutshell, I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.

00:22:38.540 --> 00:22:40.980
 Any questions?

00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:44.280
 Commissioner Riggs.

00:22:44.280 --> 00:22:50.940
 So in the annexation, is there a certain timeline which services have to be provided?

00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:52.860
 That's a great question.

00:22:52.860 --> 00:22:57.980
 Our municipal services agreements do not spell out a specific timeline in which they have

00:22:57.980 --> 00:23:02.220
 to be provided.

00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:05.480
 I got a couple questions.

00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:15.580
 One, it was new to me the word salad about our not being initial zoning per state law.

00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:18.080
 I've always heard that it's a placeholder.

00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:24.580
 Does that mean that while we show that on the map, they're not bound to the zoning limitations

00:23:24.580 --> 00:23:26.100
 in that zone?

00:23:26.100 --> 00:23:29.060
 Explain to me what that means.

00:23:29.060 --> 00:23:31.740
 Do you have a better way to explain initial versus placeholder?

00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:38.060
 It is a little word salady to your point, and it does follow state law language.

00:23:38.060 --> 00:23:39.060
 Right.

00:23:39.060 --> 00:23:43.660
 I mean, we would enforce the rural residential zoning that's on the property, so even though

00:23:43.660 --> 00:23:48.020
 it's viewed as a placeholder, those are the rules that one has to follow.

00:23:48.020 --> 00:23:49.020
 Okay.

00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:50.020
 Yeah.

00:23:50.020 --> 00:23:52.020
 Anything else to add, Haley?

00:23:52.020 --> 00:23:53.020
 Okay.

00:23:53.020 --> 00:23:57.780
 It's more of a definitional difference between initial and placeholder, but functionally

00:23:57.780 --> 00:23:58.780
 it's...

00:23:58.780 --> 00:24:03.060
 Functionally, if they didn't, for whatever reason, pursue rezoning, we would look at

00:24:03.060 --> 00:24:08.260
 what our R allows and enforce that, which isn't that much different than the NAA.

00:24:08.260 --> 00:24:09.260
 Okay.

00:24:09.260 --> 00:24:14.040
 In some communities, that initial placeholder zoning is actually referred to as agriculture.

00:24:14.040 --> 00:24:17.780
 Our zoning ordinance, I think, used to have the agricultural reference, but then we removed

00:24:17.780 --> 00:24:19.940
 it with the adoption of the 2019 code.

00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:20.940
 Am I correct?

00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:25.940
 I'm getting some affirmative head nods from the Peanut Gallery, so they predate me.

00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:26.940
 Okay.

00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:27.940
 Thank you.

00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:36.020
 And then secondly, I may be totally wrong on this.

00:24:36.020 --> 00:24:43.620
 Is there, in the non-annexation agreements, is there a date on termination at which annexation

00:24:43.620 --> 00:24:46.660
 happens regardless of whether the property has been developed?

00:24:46.660 --> 00:24:47.660
 How does that happen?

00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:50.620
 Because they go for a certain term, right?

00:24:50.620 --> 00:24:53.820
 It would be when those terms expire.

00:24:53.820 --> 00:25:00.460
 In the case of the 2020 annexation expirations, we allowed landowners to elect to continue

00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:04.260
 that agreement rather than being annexed into the city.

00:25:04.260 --> 00:25:08.880
 And some of it's still being worked out, but typically, yeah, we offer the extension or

00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.880
 we did in the past.

00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.260
 I don't know what we'll do in 2040, but...

00:25:12.260 --> 00:25:17.180
 But for the majority of those agreements at termination, it's the city's option whether

00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:22.540
 to offer another non-annexation agreement or whether to annex that property?

00:25:22.540 --> 00:25:24.100
 It would be discussed at that time.

00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:29.820
 That's what occurred in 2020, was council provided direction to allow those extensions.

00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:33.940
 So that's how we got there, yes.

00:25:33.940 --> 00:25:40.500
 And when we look at existing non-annexation agreements, is that primarily property that

00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:47.380
 the city was thinking about annexing in the past when annexation was a little bit more

00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:55.460
 easy from a state law perspective, and for various reasons, they elected to do a non-annexation

00:25:55.460 --> 00:25:57.460
 agreement instead?

00:25:57.460 --> 00:26:00.100
 To the best of my knowledge, that's accurate.

00:26:00.100 --> 00:26:04.940
 So we did have to offer those non-annexation agreements to properties we were interested

00:26:04.940 --> 00:26:07.260
 in annexing rather than just doing so.

00:26:07.260 --> 00:26:14.340
 And a lot of them, if I can get to our more current map, are kind of between 20...

00:26:14.340 --> 00:26:16.620
 Right around 2005 is a good example.

00:26:16.620 --> 00:26:23.060
 They fall in these kind of little donut holes, it's not terribly clear here, but some along

00:26:23.060 --> 00:26:27.900
 like Bonnie Bray or even further up north where you just have these pockets or areas

00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:33.060
 of the city where they're surrounded by city limits, but you still have ETJ in that area.

00:26:33.060 --> 00:26:36.580
 So that's where many of those fall.

00:26:36.580 --> 00:26:40.020
 Out west of 35, there's a handful as well.

00:26:40.020 --> 00:26:41.020
 Okay.

00:26:41.020 --> 00:26:42.460
 Any other questions?

00:26:42.460 --> 00:26:48.500
 Commissioner McDade, sorry.

00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:55.620
 I was wondering when you say the municipal service agreements that you have, do you automatically

00:26:55.620 --> 00:27:03.100
 start or at some date start bringing in city services such as water lines and wastewater

00:27:03.100 --> 00:27:04.500
 and things like that?

00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:06.300
 That's part of it?

00:27:06.300 --> 00:27:07.300
 Yeah.

00:27:07.300 --> 00:27:14.900
 So some are effective pretty quickly, things like being able to access a library as a resident.

00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:17.020
 Annexations are effective immediately.

00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:20.780
 The other ones that, no, there's not a built in timeline for when those services do need

00:27:20.780 --> 00:27:22.660
 to be extended.

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:26.960
 In the cases of many of the non-annexation agreements that we do see choosing to come

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.180
 into the city, it is for development purposes.

00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:36.400
 And so that does tend to move rather relatively quickly because they're interested in making

00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.060
 sure they have services for that development purpose.

00:27:39.060 --> 00:27:44.460
 But there's no set timeline of like now we bring in the water.

00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:52.660
 Thank you.

00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:56.380
 Anything else from the commission?

00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:57.380
 No?

00:27:57.380 --> 00:27:58.380
 Okay.

00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.380
 Thank you very much.

00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:03.100
 It's great to see one of these and learn a few new things.

00:28:03.100 --> 00:28:04.100
 Thank you.

00:28:04.100 --> 00:28:06.940
 And I have to apologize to Julie.

00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:15.020
 I apparently did not flip over to the last page and I skipped over our last public hearing,

00:28:15.020 --> 00:28:23.380
 which is very important as all of them are, item 5C, Z250007.

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:26.460
 So let's go through that before we go to our other work session.

00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:27.460
 My apologies.

00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:28.460
 That is okay.

00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:35.020
 I'm Julie Wyatt and I'm presenting Z250007.

00:28:35.020 --> 00:28:41.140
 I have a full presentation for the regular meeting, but just as a summary, the request

00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:46.380
 is to rezone the property from R2 district to mixed use neighborhood district.

00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:54.340
 It's about 1.09 acres and the property is located on the north side of West University,

00:28:54.340 --> 00:29:01.940
 on the west side of town and you can kind of see the location here outlined in yellow.

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:08.060
 The purpose is to reestablish a previous retail use in an existing commercial building.

00:29:08.060 --> 00:29:13.660
 That retail use was actually -- it's funny that Angie talked about annexation today because

00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:18.120
 the retail use was established prior to the property being annexed and the property was

00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:24.440
 annexed in 1974 as part of a strip annexation down university.

00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:28.420
 So that retail use was established in the early '70s.

00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:35.220
 It ceased in 2023 and so the property owner would like to bring back that commercial use.

00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:39.300
 The proposal is consistent with the future land use map as well as the overall goals

00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:43.900
 of the comprehensive plan and so staff is recommending approval as it complies with

00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:44.900
 the criteria.

00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:46.860
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

00:29:46.860 --> 00:29:52.100
 The applicant will be here this evening as well.

00:29:52.100 --> 00:29:55.220
 >> Any questions?

00:29:55.220 --> 00:30:01.940
 I guess I just have one probably brief.

00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:08.180
 It's not terribly often that we see a new zoning request for MN along a seven lane,

00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:09.980
 60 mile an hour highway.

00:30:09.980 --> 00:30:15.820
 Can you explain to me why MN instead of SC for instance?

00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:22.780
 >> So that is something we actually talked about in staff and MN in this case allows

00:30:22.780 --> 00:30:27.940
 the property to develop in a manner that would be a little more compatible with the adjacent

00:30:27.940 --> 00:30:34.580
 residential because you can see maybe on your screen that there are homes behind it.

00:30:34.580 --> 00:30:41.660
 And so we want to make sure that there's compatible uses adjacent to the property.

00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:48.380
 And that development scale in MN, the permitted uses is more consistent with what we see.

00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:53.860
 You may also, if you've looked up and down University, this pattern is actually repeated

00:30:53.860 --> 00:30:55.580
 several times.

00:30:55.580 --> 00:31:02.860
 There are other parts of the city that where a residential neighborhood, the gateway to

00:31:02.860 --> 00:31:05.380
 that neighborhood is off of University.

00:31:05.380 --> 00:31:14.380
 And so instead of having that SC zoning with more of those auto oriented uses, instead

00:31:14.380 --> 00:31:20.180
 the city has zoned those areas in MN to provide just a little bit better gateway for those

00:31:20.180 --> 00:31:21.180
 neighborhoods.

00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:26.520
 Ector Street is probably one of those that is most familiar to the commission.

00:31:26.520 --> 00:31:27.520
 So that's why.

00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:28.520
 >> Okay.

00:31:28.520 --> 00:31:29.520
 Thank you.

00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:30.520
 >> You bet.

00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:35.540
 Any other questions?

00:31:35.540 --> 00:31:39.660
 Yeah, Commissioner McDuff.

00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.700
 >> Just a comment, Ms. Julia, I'm glad to see this done, when I'm driving to Decatur,

00:31:42.700 --> 00:31:46.900
 I often look to my right and think, what are we doing with this?

00:31:46.900 --> 00:31:51.740
 And over time, so this is pleasing to me.

00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:54.700
 >> Thank you.

00:31:54.700 --> 00:31:55.980
 >> Certainly.

00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:59.060
 Any other questions?

00:31:59.060 --> 00:32:00.060
 Seeing none.

00:32:00.060 --> 00:32:03.820
 I'm glad to see you at the public hearing.

00:32:03.820 --> 00:32:10.820
 Now we can go to the work session item 3A.

00:32:10.820 --> 00:32:16.320
 Receive a report, hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the Southeast Denton

00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:18.460
 residential and height overlay districts.

00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:19.460
 >> All right.

00:32:19.460 --> 00:32:20.460
 Good evening.

00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:21.460
 Julie Wyatt.

00:32:21.460 --> 00:32:25.520
 And I am presenting the Southeast Denton, our work session on what we've been working

00:32:25.520 --> 00:32:29.100
 on for the implementation of the Southeast Denton area plan.

00:32:29.100 --> 00:32:34.660
 So this is the residential and height overlay districts.

00:32:34.660 --> 00:32:39.100
 The purpose, this is going to kind of follow what you saw with Mia's presentation most

00:32:39.100 --> 00:32:40.100
 recently.

00:32:40.100 --> 00:32:44.780
 The purpose is to introduce these overlay districts that we've been working on, the

00:32:44.780 --> 00:32:47.200
 residential and the height.

00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:51.660
 And then also get your feedback to see if we're, you believe we're on the right track,

00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:54.780
 if there's anything we've missed.

00:32:54.780 --> 00:32:58.460
 So we're first going to just have a quick recap on the area plan.

00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:01.420
 Another quick recap on overlay districts.

00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:06.620
 What we've heard from the community regarding overlay conditions and then what the existing

00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:08.300
 conditions are.

00:33:08.300 --> 00:33:13.240
 And then we'll get into the nitty gritty on the overlay districts and then finally discussion.

00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:17.500
 So first just to recap, I know you all have heard this before, but the Southeast Denton

00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:20.220
 area plan was adopted last July.

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:25.860
 By the numbers, we had over 40 community engagement activities and that created six goals for

00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:27.300
 Southeast Denton.

00:33:27.300 --> 00:33:31.820
 The one that is most related to what we're talking about tonight is the strength in neighborhoods

00:33:31.820 --> 00:33:34.260
 and housing affordability.

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:37.740
 And then in the plan, we have 53 implementation action steps.

00:33:37.740 --> 00:33:41.180
 So we have a lot to accomplish with the plan.

00:33:41.180 --> 00:33:46.980
 And this is related to two, action 4.1.1, the create the residential overlay district

00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:51.200
 and then the height overlay district.

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:56.060
 As we discussed a couple of weeks ago, an overlay really is just sits on top of the

00:33:56.060 --> 00:33:57.780
 zone, the base zoning.

00:33:57.780 --> 00:34:02.580
 It can amend some of the permitted uses or development standards in that base zoning

00:34:02.580 --> 00:34:05.940
 district or it can augment those standards.

00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:10.020
 So it really just is how it structured.

00:34:10.020 --> 00:34:15.240
 And these are often a tool used to implement area plans.

00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:20.860
 So what we're talking about today is embedded within the Southeast Denton community.

00:34:20.860 --> 00:34:24.500
 The area in yellow is the residential overlay district.

00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:28.860
 That is a really large part of the Southeast Denton community and that really encompasses

00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:31.360
 those residential neighborhoods.

00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:37.020
 And then we're talking about the height limitation overlay district and that is in blue.

00:34:37.020 --> 00:34:41.860
 And that is the area between the DCTA and those residential neighborhoods, making sure

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:51.700
 that development is compatible and complements the residential area as well in terms of scale.

00:34:51.700 --> 00:34:56.500
 Also very tiny on the screen is just to show you where the live work overlay is and how

00:34:56.500 --> 00:35:01.860
 these all coordinate together.

00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:03.980
 Residential architecture in Southeast Denton.

00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:05.760
 So this is kind of where we started with this.

00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:09.540
 So we adopted the area plan and then we did a windshield survey of Southeast Denton to

00:35:09.540 --> 00:35:14.260
 really see what kind of residential architecture is within the community.

00:35:14.260 --> 00:35:18.840
 And overwhelmingly, the single family homes are one story.

00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:24.060
 There are some two stories, but overwhelmingly they're one story.

00:35:24.060 --> 00:35:27.500
 And there are really five architectural styles you see in Southeast Denton.

00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:31.340
 You see vernacular architecture, that's kind of traditional home.

00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:36.260
 You see bungalows, craftsmen, ranch styles, and then postmodern, which is really referential

00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:38.080
 to all those other styles.

00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:42.820
 So that is really what we see in Southeast Denton and some of those architectural forms

00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:48.260
 are the kinds of things that we want to pull forward in that overlay district.

00:35:48.260 --> 00:35:52.220
 So after we did the windshield survey, then we went out to the community and we asked

00:35:52.220 --> 00:35:57.980
 them at our block party in March, look, here's the kinds of things that we see in Southeast

00:35:57.980 --> 00:35:58.980
 Denton.

00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:00.980
 Is this what you want to see more of?

00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:03.140
 And so we asked about the scale.

00:36:03.140 --> 00:36:09.020
 So the building heights, 88% believe that one story homes fit within Southeast Denton.

00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:12.740
 77% believe that two story homes fit.

00:36:12.740 --> 00:36:16.140
 It goes down substantially with the three story, that 37%.

00:36:16.140 --> 00:36:20.060
 So that gives us a clue that we probably need to have something about that in the overlay

00:36:20.060 --> 00:36:21.060
 district.

00:36:21.060 --> 00:36:25.740
 85% believe that front porches or stoops fit within Southeast Denton.

00:36:25.740 --> 00:36:30.980
 That really refers back to that bungalow and craftsmen architecture, right?

00:36:30.980 --> 00:36:35.260
 And then also 76% believe that larger windows are appropriate.

00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:43.260
 87% believe that hip roofs, and it shows you it's kind of that pyramid of a roof, fit.

00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:48.060
 As well as 71% believe gabled roofs fit, once again, back to that traditional architectural

00:36:48.060 --> 00:36:49.060
 forms.

00:36:49.060 --> 00:36:54.100
 And we also just talked to him about how the buildings were placed on the lot.

00:36:54.100 --> 00:36:59.420
 94% of community members feel that front facing garages are fit and appropriate for Southeast

00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:00.420
 Denton.

00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:07.580
 63% believe detached garages fit, and we see a lot of detached garages in Southeast Denton.

00:37:07.580 --> 00:37:14.220
 63% believe that houses could be located closer to the street on a shallower lot.

00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:18.940
 And also 63% believe in ADU should not have additional parking.

00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:22.060
 So that's what we heard from the community.

00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:25.180
 We also looked at existing conditions.

00:37:25.180 --> 00:37:30.260
 Southeast Denton has some of our most historic neighborhoods within Denton.

00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:34.580
 And they are honored with the sign toppers.

00:37:34.580 --> 00:37:37.740
 So if you've driven through Southeast Denton, you really can locate yourself by looking

00:37:37.740 --> 00:37:39.260
 at the street signs.

00:37:39.260 --> 00:37:44.500
 But we have Solomon Hill, New Quaker, Freedman Town, and Fred Moore School.

00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.460
 Those were platted in the '20s and '30s.

00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:51.580
 And those houses were constructed during that time.

00:37:51.580 --> 00:37:56.580
 Lincoln Park, which is yellow on the map, that was platted in the 1960s.

00:37:56.580 --> 00:37:59.340
 That's where you're bringing in that ranch style homes, right?

00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:04.540
 And then Willow Creek in green, the darker green, that's the '60s to '80s.

00:38:04.540 --> 00:38:06.380
 Once again, having those ranch style homes.

00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:09.580
 Also you get that postmodern architecture in as well.

00:38:09.580 --> 00:38:19.060
 So Southeast Denton is really dynamic in that the neighborhoods grew over time.

00:38:19.060 --> 00:38:22.620
 And the architecture reflects the styles at those decades.

00:38:22.620 --> 00:38:25.500
 So we want to make sure that we honor that.

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:27.460
 And then we also have current zoning.

00:38:27.460 --> 00:38:31.620
 The primary zoning in Southeast Denton is R3, R4, and R7.

00:38:31.620 --> 00:38:37.180
 R3 and R4 are really kind of our suburban single-family residential zoning.

00:38:37.180 --> 00:38:47.220
 And you can see the primary zoning in R4 in Southeast Denton is that beige color, the R4.

00:38:47.220 --> 00:38:53.020
 So when we were crafting our proposed language, we really had a framework that we were looking

00:38:53.020 --> 00:38:54.020
 at.

00:38:54.020 --> 00:38:59.380
 First of all, the residents communicated that they wanted to preserve their existing neighborhood

00:38:59.380 --> 00:39:02.900
 character, that look and feel of Southeast Denton.

00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:07.720
 So that was paramount and most important in our minds.

00:39:07.720 --> 00:39:12.020
 They were also -- the community members really weren't looking for changes in use.

00:39:12.020 --> 00:39:13.700
 They like the single-family neighborhoods.

00:39:13.700 --> 00:39:17.420
 So the overlay conditions don't have anything to do with use.

00:39:17.420 --> 00:39:20.780
 They really are mostly related to design and scale.

00:39:20.780 --> 00:39:25.180
 And then we look to that action 4.1.1, the objectives within it.

00:39:25.180 --> 00:39:30.020
 First to maintain that scaling character, second to foster community investment, and

00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:33.060
 then third to create livable and inclusive neighborhoods.

00:39:33.060 --> 00:39:34.740
 So that was all in our mind.

00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:39.600
 And we were balancing all of these items, thinking we want to make sure that the overlay

00:39:39.600 --> 00:39:48.500
 conditions are not so restrictive that it prevents people from maintaining their home

00:39:48.500 --> 00:39:52.060
 or adding on an addition or building in an infill lot.

00:39:52.060 --> 00:39:57.820
 We also want to make sure that they're not too permissive where then we get development

00:39:57.820 --> 00:39:59.820
 that is not compatible.

00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:04.180
 And we want to make sure that we create dynamic places, those livable and inclusive neighborhoods,

00:40:04.180 --> 00:40:07.880
 and that the regulations are straightforward and easy to apply.

00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.460
 So with all that, we'll get started.

00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:14.580
 So first we're going to talk about the residential overlay district, and that's that area in

00:40:14.580 --> 00:40:16.500
 yellow just to remind you.

00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:17.500
 Okay.

00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:19.140
 So the applicability.

00:40:19.140 --> 00:40:22.740
 This would apply to any new primary or accessory structure.

00:40:22.740 --> 00:40:28.140
 And when we're talking about accessory structure, you're talking about maybe a garage that's

00:40:28.140 --> 00:40:33.100
 detached or an accessory dwelling unit or a shed.

00:40:33.100 --> 00:40:38.980
 So this would apply to all new accessory and primary structures.

00:40:38.980 --> 00:40:40.660
 Expansions under 50%.

00:40:40.660 --> 00:40:44.540
 The proposal would be that they would comply with the height and the roof form regulations,

00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:48.820
 and we'll talk about that in a minute, and expansions over 50% that they would comply

00:40:48.820 --> 00:40:51.100
 with all of those standards.

00:40:51.100 --> 00:40:52.980
 That's the proposal.

00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:59.460
 The dimensional standards, we're not proposing any changes to the minimum lot area.

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:02.780
 So that would remain consistent with the base zoning.

00:41:02.780 --> 00:41:06.660
 We are proposing a change to that minimum front yard setback.

00:41:06.660 --> 00:41:13.740
 We did an analysis, and over 300 lots in Southeast Denton are less than 7,000 square feet.

00:41:13.740 --> 00:41:18.780
 And the minimum lot size in our four district is 7,000 square feet.

00:41:18.780 --> 00:41:22.740
 So you could see that there's a little bit of a mismatch there.

00:41:22.740 --> 00:41:27.340
 So we are proposing to reduce that front yard setback so that it's a little more consistent

00:41:27.340 --> 00:41:32.220
 with our seven for those lots less than 7,000 square feet.

00:41:32.220 --> 00:41:36.020
 That way somebody can build a home that would meet their family's needs.

00:41:36.020 --> 00:41:40.140
 So instead of the 20 foot setback, it would be 10 feet.

00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:47.100
 And building height in all of our residential districts citywide is 40 feet.

00:41:47.100 --> 00:41:49.120
 And that's that R3, R4, and R7.

00:41:49.120 --> 00:41:55.020
 There's a little bit of MN in this area, and so that would go up to 65 feet if it's not

00:41:55.020 --> 00:41:56.660
 adjacent to single family.

00:41:56.660 --> 00:42:01.620
 If it's adjacent to single family, it would be capped at 40 feet.

00:42:01.620 --> 00:42:03.860
 We are proposing to limit that height.

00:42:03.860 --> 00:42:09.380
 And so that for primary structures, so that would be the house, we are proposing to limit

00:42:09.380 --> 00:42:11.300
 it to 30 feet.

00:42:11.300 --> 00:42:16.620
 That would allow a two story home with a pretty pitched roof.

00:42:16.620 --> 00:42:22.540
 So still giving the community members flexibility, but also making sure that it isn't out of

00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:25.060
 scale with the adjacent properties.

00:42:25.060 --> 00:42:29.980
 Because remember, the majority of homes in Southeastern are that single story.

00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:32.900
 And then limiting the accessory structure height to 20 feet.

00:42:32.900 --> 00:42:36.620
 And that would allow about one and a half stories.

00:42:36.620 --> 00:42:44.580
 So we are also proposing to modify how that height is measured a little bit from the code.

00:42:44.580 --> 00:42:51.220
 Under our current development code for a structure with a pitched roof, that height is measured

00:42:51.220 --> 00:42:59.060
 from the finished grade to the midpoint of that pitched roof, the gable.

00:42:59.060 --> 00:43:06.580
 We are proposing that be modified so that the height would be measured from the finished

00:43:06.580 --> 00:43:10.440
 grade to the top portion of the roof.

00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:16.500
 So that we're very clear on what heights would be permitted in Southeastern.

00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:20.180
 We're also proposing some changes to the design standards.

00:43:20.180 --> 00:43:27.180
 And they're related to the front entry, the windows and doors, the roof forms, and then

00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:29.140
 the building mass and architecture.

00:43:29.140 --> 00:43:34.620
 So for front entries, while the Denton Development Code requires that single family homes face

00:43:34.620 --> 00:43:39.060
 the street and be connected to the street, it doesn't require any specific treatment

00:43:39.060 --> 00:43:40.060
 to that.

00:43:40.060 --> 00:43:48.260
 We are proposing, given the tradition of the bungalow and craftsman architecture in Southeast

00:43:48.260 --> 00:43:55.260
 Denton, that either a front porch or a stoop would be required on any new residential development.

00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:57.140
 We want to make sure that they're kind of usable.

00:43:57.140 --> 00:44:02.020
 So we're proposing a minimum width of that front porch of 25% of the ground floor front

00:44:02.020 --> 00:44:05.740
 facade width and then a minimum depth of four feet.

00:44:05.740 --> 00:44:10.820
 And then we want those columns, the covered porch, the columns to be a decorative feature.

00:44:10.820 --> 00:44:17.020
 Or the stoop to be 24 square feet in minimum size, once again usable.

00:44:17.020 --> 00:44:20.020
 It should be elevated seven inches above the finished grade.

00:44:20.020 --> 00:44:23.380
 So it could either be, we want to make sure that if the accessibility, it could either

00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:28.140
 be, you know, a slope or it could be a step.

00:44:28.140 --> 00:44:33.180
 We're also proposing some changes to the minimum requirements in Denton for transparency or

00:44:33.180 --> 00:44:34.180
 windows.

00:44:34.180 --> 00:44:38.980
 The Denton Development, sorry, windows or doors, the Denton Development Code requires

00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:48.620
 15% of the front facade have occupied at least 15% of that area by windows and doors.

00:44:48.620 --> 00:44:53.720
 We are proposing to up that so that those windows would be oversized in Southeast Denton

00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:57.060
 to 25% of the front facade.

00:44:57.060 --> 00:45:03.860
 And then the Denton Development Code requires that there be trim or the windows be recessed.

00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:09.860
 We're proposing to get a little more granular on that requiring three and a half inches,

00:45:09.860 --> 00:45:12.420
 inch wide trim around the windows.

00:45:12.420 --> 00:45:17.740
 Once again, harkening back to that craftsman or bungalow architecture.

00:45:17.740 --> 00:45:21.900
 Roof form, currently the Denton Development Code allows a variety of roof forms.

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:27.740
 You can have, you could have the gabled or, or, or hipped.

00:45:27.740 --> 00:45:34.740
 You could also have a flat roof or a mansard roof or, or a shed roof, other similar forms.

00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:40.420
 We're proposing that only hipped or gabled roofs or a combination thereof would be allowed

00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:41.420
 in Southeast Denton.

00:45:41.420 --> 00:45:45.540
 But again, it's just more consistent with that look and feel.

00:45:45.540 --> 00:45:49.060
 And then finally, building mass and form, this might get a little complicated.

00:45:49.060 --> 00:45:54.100
 So I'll try to, I'll try to, if you have any questions, let me know.

00:45:54.100 --> 00:45:59.180
 So under our current code, we have a list of architectural features that when you build

00:45:59.180 --> 00:46:02.820
 a single family home in the city of Denton, you have to pick from that list, you have

00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:05.540
 to pick three items.

00:46:05.540 --> 00:46:10.140
 And now those items are listed here in this column.

00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:16.220
 We are proposing, because the other overlay conditions really require some of these things

00:46:16.220 --> 00:46:21.900
 on this list already, that we have lengthened that list and said you, you would only have

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:26.080
 to provide two because you are, you're doing some of these things.

00:46:26.080 --> 00:46:33.260
 So, so we are proposing that each property owner for, for new developments would have

00:46:33.260 --> 00:46:40.460
 either dormers, a projection, which would be like a bay window or a bump out window.

00:46:40.460 --> 00:46:45.620
 Split garage doors, where our column or post would divide that single car garage, those

00:46:45.620 --> 00:46:51.100
 single car garage doors, providing a little more interest if it's a front facing garage.

00:46:51.100 --> 00:46:58.060
 A railings or a low wall enclosing the front porch or the stoop, and then multi-pane or

00:46:58.060 --> 00:47:08.060
 mission style windows, once again, keeping with that, that historic character of southeastern.

00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:10.420
 Any questions on that or should I?

00:47:10.420 --> 00:47:15.360
 Sorry, just for clarification, there's lots of terminology.

00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:23.880
 When you say multi-pane, that's not dual pane windows, that's X number of lights that are

00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.620
 separated by millwork, is that correct?

00:47:26.620 --> 00:47:27.620
 Yes.

00:47:27.620 --> 00:47:29.500
 So, it would be like a window like here.

00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:30.500
 Got it.

00:47:30.500 --> 00:47:31.500
 Thank you.

00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:32.500
 You got it.

00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:36.860
 I have a question since you stopped and asked if there's any questions, if you can go back

00:47:36.860 --> 00:47:41.420
 to that screen, no, the one before, yes.

00:47:41.420 --> 00:47:49.040
 So right now, you are requiring only three of those building mass informed, those little

00:47:49.040 --> 00:47:51.540
 options.

00:47:51.540 --> 00:47:55.860
 You're proposing to increase the number of options, but reduce the number that they have

00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:56.860
 to do.

00:47:56.860 --> 00:47:59.180
 Does that still require three?

00:47:59.180 --> 00:48:06.420
 Well, that's because in like the front entry, we're already requiring a front porch with

00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:13.620
 those decorative columns or that treatment, so one of the items is a covered front porch.

00:48:13.620 --> 00:48:19.220
 We're already either requiring that or that stoop, so because it's already being required,

00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:23.380
 we felt like we're already getting some of that architectural interest.

00:48:23.380 --> 00:48:29.300
 Now, if the commission feels like that is an insufficient number, that's the kind of

00:48:29.300 --> 00:48:31.780
 feedback we need to get.

00:48:31.780 --> 00:48:39.900
 I mean, personally, I feel you've given them more options, still require them to do three.

00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:40.900
 That's just personal.

00:48:40.900 --> 00:48:44.780
 I guess, Julie, can you clarify, so the fact that we're already requiring the stoop or

00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:50.380
 I'm sorry, the front porch, so there's one item and then we're proposing that you have

00:48:50.380 --> 00:48:54.460
 to then choose two out of the list on the right, so as a result, we're still getting

00:48:54.460 --> 00:48:57.380
 the three that would normally show up under the current standards.

00:48:57.380 --> 00:48:59.900
 So really, it's not a difference.

00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:05.860
 It's just we've said one of those items is going to have to be a porch or a stoop.

00:49:05.860 --> 00:49:11.060
 No choice on that one, and then you get the flexibility to choose from the other two items.

00:49:11.060 --> 00:49:13.980
 So again, hence why we're still getting the three.

00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:14.980
 Yes.

00:49:14.980 --> 00:49:15.980
 Okay.

00:49:15.980 --> 00:49:20.740
 All right.

00:49:20.740 --> 00:49:26.460
 Can I ask for clarification on that?

00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:33.980
 So are you saying the items in blue are essentially required?

00:49:33.980 --> 00:49:34.980
 Right here?

00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:35.980
 Uh-huh.

00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:40.220
 Well, the gables would already be required if they choose it.

00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:44.820
 They would already be on the house if they chose a gable roof because remember, the overlay

00:49:44.820 --> 00:49:48.980
 conditions are requiring either a hip or a gabled roof.

00:49:48.980 --> 00:49:57.940
 We are not, with the requirement for a front porch, a recessed entry would not be allowed

00:49:57.940 --> 00:50:01.140
 in Southeastern for new construction.

00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:08.220
 The covered front porch, that's where we're talking about that stoop or the porch.

00:50:08.220 --> 00:50:12.900
 A cupola, they could provide that if that's something that they would want to.

00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:15.580
 It's not something we see often in Southeast Denton.

00:50:15.580 --> 00:50:19.580
 So it felt like it wasn't something that we wanted to encourage.

00:50:19.580 --> 00:50:22.820
 Architecture pillars or posts, that would be required if you're going to do a front

00:50:22.820 --> 00:50:26.140
 porch instead of the stoop.

00:50:26.140 --> 00:50:31.220
 So those things are already kind of included within that overlay, which I think Tina said

00:50:31.220 --> 00:50:32.620
 much better than me.

00:50:32.620 --> 00:50:34.100
 So some of them are required.

00:50:34.100 --> 00:50:36.860
 Some of them are like the cupola would not.

00:50:36.860 --> 00:50:43.860
 But to me, you've taken out cupolas, you have the roof and the front porch, they're doing

00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:47.580
 that and obviously the pillar comes with the front porch.

00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:52.220
 Dormers are staying, the bay window is staying, you've added three more.

00:50:52.220 --> 00:51:01.900
 That's why I feel like they've now got one, two, three, four, five things to pick from.

00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:03.540
 I feel like do three.

00:51:03.540 --> 00:51:10.700
 I mean, that's just, if we're trying to enhance and stay with the bungalow, the craftsman,

00:51:10.700 --> 00:51:13.540
 the ranch style, that's what's going to do it.

00:51:13.540 --> 00:51:16.660
 That's what's going to create the charm of the community.

00:51:16.660 --> 00:51:23.780
 I have another question, too, if we're ready to move on.

00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:24.780
 Sure.

00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:25.780
 Yeah, go ahead.

00:51:25.780 --> 00:51:31.420
 At the event that you held to get the citizen feedback, how much participation did you get?

00:51:31.420 --> 00:51:37.820
 So for the block party, we had over 100 participants come to the block party.

00:51:37.820 --> 00:51:40.980
 So we had quite a few at the block party.

00:51:40.980 --> 00:51:46.140
 We were recently, and we'll go over this in just a minute, we were recently in Juneteenth.

00:51:46.140 --> 00:51:48.740
 We did not get a lot of feedback at Juneteenth.

00:51:48.740 --> 00:51:52.180
 We went to Sedna on Monday night, we got some feedback.

00:51:52.180 --> 00:51:57.460
 And then Mia and I are going to be doing some additional outreach, going to doing some pop

00:51:57.460 --> 00:52:00.040
 up events, going to Project Hope.

00:52:00.040 --> 00:52:05.780
 So making sure that we validate the information and that we got it right.

00:52:05.780 --> 00:52:08.140
 We want to make sure we got it right.

00:52:08.140 --> 00:52:09.140
 Okay.

00:52:09.140 --> 00:52:10.140
 Thank you.

00:52:10.140 --> 00:52:13.700
 Yeah, go ahead.

00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:17.540
 So I understand that the feedback was limited based on the participation of the last two

00:52:17.540 --> 00:52:18.540
 events.

00:52:18.540 --> 00:52:23.260
 But what was the feedback that you received, even though it was, you know, a smaller number?

00:52:23.260 --> 00:52:33.220
 So the block party, what we did is ask questions based upon the existing architectural forms.

00:52:33.220 --> 00:52:35.900
 What kinds of things do you want to see more of?

00:52:35.900 --> 00:52:41.740
 This language is now based upon the results of that survey.

00:52:41.740 --> 00:52:47.420
 We are talking to the community about those results now and saying, hey, here's what we're

00:52:47.420 --> 00:52:48.420
 proposing.

00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:51.540
 Does this -- is this what we heard?

00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:54.700
 Do we hear it correctly?

00:52:54.700 --> 00:53:01.060
 That's that part we're in right now is we heard those survey results in terms of what

00:53:01.060 --> 00:53:04.260
 kind of -- what kind of architectural features would you like to see more of?

00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:05.620
 What kind of building scale?

00:53:05.620 --> 00:53:13.500
 And now we're crafting that language and we're going back to the community now saying, like,

00:53:13.500 --> 00:53:14.500
 here's what we heard.

00:53:14.500 --> 00:53:16.740
 Does this language adequately capture it?

00:53:16.740 --> 00:53:21.180
 So that's the conversations that are happening at the events, like the Juneteenth event?

00:53:21.180 --> 00:53:22.180
 Yes, ma'am.

00:53:22.180 --> 00:53:23.180
 Okay.

00:53:23.180 --> 00:53:24.180
 Okay.

00:53:24.180 --> 00:53:26.980
 I think we'll probably end up coming back to this slide, but let's go ahead and move

00:53:26.980 --> 00:53:27.980
 forward to that.

00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:28.980
 All right.

00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:29.980
 The next one's easy.

00:53:29.980 --> 00:53:30.980
 I promise.

00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:35.340
 So the height overlay is really that area in blue, and once again, that's making sure

00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:39.400
 we have appropriate transitions.

00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:43.540
 And it really is just related to those dimensional standards.

00:53:43.540 --> 00:53:49.140
 So there's two zoning districts within that area in blue, the PF, which is public facilities,

00:53:49.140 --> 00:53:52.560
 that's the City of Denton or county property, and then MN.

00:53:52.560 --> 00:53:59.180
 PF allows 100 feet, base zoning, MN allows 65 -- up to 65 feet if you're not adjacent

00:53:59.180 --> 00:54:02.780
 to single-family zoning or single-family home.

00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:08.720
 The proposed overlay district would take that down to 40 feet, and that would allow a more

00:54:08.720 --> 00:54:17.260
 gentle change in scale from the single-family residential to the DCTA area, balancing those

00:54:17.260 --> 00:54:24.060
 needs of those -- of the property owners, the neighborhood, and the kinds of development

00:54:24.060 --> 00:54:28.380
 that you would see around a train station.

00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:34.380
 We're also not proposing to change how those heights are measured, because we anticipate

00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:38.900
 more commercial development in this location or one of those uses that would typically

00:54:38.900 --> 00:54:40.940
 be found in MN.

00:54:40.940 --> 00:54:48.460
 We kept that measurement consistent with how we typically measure commercial heights in

00:54:48.460 --> 00:54:51.980
 the City of Denton.

00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:54.500
 So we asked -- we talked about engagement.

00:54:54.500 --> 00:55:02.380
 We did -- we had the survey results, those boards that we had at the block party in March,

00:55:02.380 --> 00:55:04.980
 and then we were just at Juneteenth.

00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:09.020
 We went to Sedna on Monday night, talked to the folks there.

00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:14.380
 We're also scheduling intercept surveys at the MLK Junior Center, Recreational Center,

00:55:14.380 --> 00:55:19.460
 talking about -- talking to parents as they're picking up their kiddos, Project HOPE and

00:55:19.460 --> 00:55:22.100
 American Legion Hall.

00:55:22.100 --> 00:55:26.980
 Online surveys with Spanish translations, as y'all who went through the journey with

00:55:26.980 --> 00:55:33.020
 us know that Southeast Denton is -- the demographics are changing, and that we want to make sure

00:55:33.020 --> 00:55:37.340
 we capture voices from all community members, and so we want to make sure we have those

00:55:37.340 --> 00:55:39.100
 Spanish translations.

00:55:39.100 --> 00:55:42.060
 And then also talk to property owners within that height overlay district.

00:55:42.060 --> 00:55:45.820
 We want to hear from them as well.

00:55:45.820 --> 00:55:52.460
 So with all of that -- I was just going to ask if I can interject something.

00:55:52.460 --> 00:55:56.140
 Can you back to your slide on the height overlay district?

00:55:56.140 --> 00:55:57.820
 So the other -- Julie, correct me if I'm wrong.

00:55:57.820 --> 00:56:01.820
 One of the reasons why we settled on the 40 feet is also because with the new development

00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:06.340
 that has happened in that area, it meets this requirement, so we wanted to make sure that

00:56:06.340 --> 00:56:10.580
 we did not make that development nonconforming.

00:56:10.580 --> 00:56:11.580
 Thank you.

00:56:11.580 --> 00:56:12.580
 Yes.

00:56:12.580 --> 00:56:15.180
 So with that, we've got our questions.

00:56:15.180 --> 00:56:16.180
 It was in your backup.

00:56:16.180 --> 00:56:24.580
 We could go one by one or answer questions as they come, and we're going to take notes.

00:56:24.580 --> 00:56:28.020
 It's a lot of information.

00:56:28.020 --> 00:56:33.140
 I think we'll go one by one once we're ready for direction and feedback.

00:56:33.140 --> 00:56:39.340
 Are there any clarification, factual questions that we need in general about the content

00:56:39.340 --> 00:56:43.380
 before we get there, Commissioner Dyer?

00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:46.220
 I have a few questions.

00:56:46.220 --> 00:56:47.220
 Okay.

00:56:47.220 --> 00:56:57.460
 So looking at the roof height and the max height of the houses, yes.

00:56:57.460 --> 00:57:07.140
 So I noticed that for the max height of the building, for R3, R4, and R7, it was the 40

00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:11.940
 feet, and now you're reducing that to 30 feet.

00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:20.020
 And overwhelmingly, from the community responses that you included in the agenda, obviously

00:57:20.020 --> 00:57:33.300
 a strong amount, it looks like there was 43 people or targets, 27 of the 43 said no to

00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:34.300
 the three stories.

00:57:34.300 --> 00:57:38.940
 Like they want to keep it single story, which was overwhelming at the 88%, and the two stories

00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:40.880
 at 77%.

00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:45.540
 So if you're looking at a two-story structure that can only go 30 feet high from the base

00:57:45.540 --> 00:57:51.900
 up to the highest point of the roof, what are the ceiling heights looking like on a

00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:54.920
 first floor and a second floor home?

00:57:54.920 --> 00:57:59.040
 So I talk with our building inspections folks because they review a lot of these single

00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:03.500
 family and I'm like, I want to make sure I don't kind of that balancing app.

00:58:03.500 --> 00:58:09.180
 We don't want to prevent somebody from building a home that meets the needs for their family.

00:58:09.180 --> 00:58:15.740
 And I said, on your deepest pitched roofs, two story, what are your typical building

00:58:15.740 --> 00:58:16.740
 heights?

00:58:16.740 --> 00:58:18.980
 And they said about 25 feet.

00:58:18.980 --> 00:58:24.340
 So we felt comfortable in going the 30.

00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:30.740
 So once again, allowing that two story home with a pitched roof, but not going so far

00:58:30.740 --> 00:58:34.700
 that somebody could build a three story home, because you could get a three story home in

00:58:34.700 --> 00:58:36.940
 a 40 foot tall house.

00:58:36.940 --> 00:58:43.860
 Okay, then my next question is, and since we're on this screen, you have the minimum

00:58:43.860 --> 00:58:45.500
 front yard setback.

00:58:45.500 --> 00:58:54.860
 So from the front of the house to the street, and on lots smaller than 7,000 feet, you know,

00:58:54.860 --> 00:59:02.340
 R3, R4, it was 20 feet, and now you're reducing that to 10 feet.

00:59:02.340 --> 00:59:08.780
 And that was one of the things in this residential survey is that, do you want the house closer

00:59:08.780 --> 00:59:10.740
 to the street?

00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:18.700
 And it says only 63%, only 22 of the 30, like only 35 people, you know, responded to that

00:59:18.700 --> 00:59:20.980
 particular question.

00:59:20.980 --> 00:59:29.380
 And so it's barely more than half like, to me, that's really super close.

00:59:29.380 --> 00:59:35.740
 And I know you're trying to maximize the most amount of square footage of a house on a 7,000

00:59:35.740 --> 00:59:38.580
 square foot lot.

00:59:38.580 --> 00:59:42.100
 But if you're having, and I don't even know what the back of it is, because it doesn't

00:59:42.100 --> 00:59:45.540
 really say, you just talk about the front of the yard.

00:59:45.540 --> 00:59:52.420
 Like what is the max from the back of a house to the back property line, like 10 feet, like

00:59:52.420 --> 00:59:59.340
 that provides a family, you know, if the family's buying it, hardly any yard because you're going

00:59:59.340 --> 01:00:04.580
 to have developers that are going to go 10 feet to 10 feet.

01:00:04.580 --> 01:00:10.500
 So if we're, if, you know, when you were looking at the goals, some of the goals, I feel like

01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:17.140
 that doesn't really match up with one of the goals on there.

01:00:17.140 --> 01:00:19.620
 So that was one.

01:00:19.620 --> 01:00:22.820
 And I can save my questions or I can just get all my questions out of the way, whatever

01:00:22.820 --> 01:00:24.460
 the, if the rest of that.

01:00:24.460 --> 01:00:25.460
 No, that's fine.

01:00:25.460 --> 01:00:31.580
 Do you have any other just, just clarification questions before we really get into details

01:00:31.580 --> 01:00:33.080
 of direction of height?

01:00:33.080 --> 01:00:36.040
 The rafters in the brackets, I thought it was very interesting.

01:00:36.040 --> 01:00:40.860
 How did you show them rafters versus brackets?

01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:47.620
 Because of a huge majority when it says exposed rack rafters or brackets, 91% they did not

01:00:47.620 --> 01:00:49.100
 want that.

01:00:49.100 --> 01:00:55.980
 So what are, you know, when I'm kind of curious what your definition of that was, if it's

01:00:55.980 --> 01:00:58.900
 what I'm thinking of a definition.

01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:00.660
 So I was curious about that too.

01:01:00.660 --> 01:01:05.360
 And so you can see that when you, like, for instance, this is a really good example.

01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:08.300
 This is a bracket on a craftsman style home.

01:01:08.300 --> 01:01:11.540
 So that we asked, is that what you want to see more of?

01:01:11.540 --> 01:01:14.720
 The community was not in favor of that.

01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:18.360
 So here's, here's some additional brackets on a, on a rant style home.

01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:26.180
 And we kind of tried to tease out some of those, those design features that are typically

01:01:26.180 --> 01:01:28.580
 found in these architectural styles.

01:01:28.580 --> 01:01:29.580
 Did they say why?

01:01:29.580 --> 01:01:30.720
 I mean, I just find that interesting.

01:01:30.720 --> 01:01:37.100
 If you're trying to stick with the, the design of what's already in there and try to match

01:01:37.100 --> 01:01:38.100
 it and enhance it.

01:01:38.100 --> 01:01:44.860
 I, I just, I, I found that very interesting, which is why I was curious if they, you know,

01:01:44.860 --> 01:01:48.500
 if it, how it was being communicated of what that looked like.

01:01:48.500 --> 01:01:54.820
 Julie, if memory serves me correctly on our boards that we had at the block party, our

01:01:54.820 --> 01:02:00.380
 boards showed images of existing residential structures that were in Southeast Denton that

01:02:00.380 --> 01:02:01.380
 illustrated that.

01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:05.140
 Cause I, I can think of, I think I was at that board and I would like point it out and

01:02:05.140 --> 01:02:11.580
 explain to people, but we, we had pictures of homes in Southeast Denton that illustrated

01:02:11.580 --> 01:02:18.260
 what those exposed rafters look like in one of the photos that I recall actually shows

01:02:18.260 --> 01:02:26.420
 a series of rafters down the entire length of, of the, of the home underneath what that

01:02:26.420 --> 01:02:27.780
 would be, what the Eve.

01:02:27.780 --> 01:02:32.020
 So it's, you know, while on that craftsman that Julie pointed out in the middle, I guess

01:02:32.020 --> 01:02:34.020
 the fourth image down next one over.

01:02:34.020 --> 01:02:35.020
 Yeah.

01:02:35.020 --> 01:02:39.260
 You know, some might say that might be attractive the way those three rafters are exposed, but

01:02:39.260 --> 01:02:43.980
 I recall one of, one of our other photos though, showed more of the side and when you see all

01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:49.460
 of those rafters, it kind of reminds you probably more of a dated, a very dated structure and,

01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:53.460
 and people were not, were not liking that, that, that feature.

01:02:53.460 --> 01:02:59.220
 So did the community just kind of say we want more clean lines in the facades of the houses?

01:02:59.220 --> 01:03:05.220
 They didn't give further explanation, it just wasn't something that they were interested

01:03:05.220 --> 01:03:06.220
 in seeing more of.

01:03:06.220 --> 01:03:10.780
 You know, our boards had a series of images on them and then we gave people dots and told

01:03:10.780 --> 01:03:14.780
 them, I can't remember if they were green and red dots or what colors we use, but use

01:03:14.780 --> 01:03:21.380
 this color dot of the images that you like and put dots, this color dots on what you

01:03:21.380 --> 01:03:22.380
 don't like.

01:03:22.380 --> 01:03:27.080
 And so when doing these visual preference exercises, I mean, we, we worked to have multiple

01:03:27.080 --> 01:03:32.500
 different images there to give people a choice to understand what they liked and didn't like.

01:03:32.500 --> 01:03:35.340
 So that's the total dots on this document that you have.

01:03:35.340 --> 01:03:36.340
 Okay.

01:03:36.340 --> 01:03:37.340
 That makes sense.

01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:38.340
 Yeah.

01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:41.460
 We were trying to make, you know, when doing a block party event and having that number

01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:47.380
 of people in attendance, it's trying to use engagement methods that help achieve us being

01:03:47.380 --> 01:03:51.500
 able to get the feedback in the community using some simple techniques.

01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:55.260
 Visual preference boards are a good way to help the community understand, especially

01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:58.540
 when we're talking technical terms from an architectural standpoint.

01:03:58.540 --> 01:04:00.180
 So that's why we provided those images.

01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:04.540
 We had staff there to be able to help explain them and then ask them to tell us what you

01:04:04.540 --> 01:04:09.500
 like and don't like in those particular exercises it was, it was with the dots.

01:04:09.500 --> 01:04:14.380
 Very interesting that the having a front porch or a stoop that garnered the most amount of

01:04:14.380 --> 01:04:17.820
 dots at 62.

01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:21.700
 People really liked that aspect.

01:04:21.700 --> 01:04:24.220
 So, okay.

01:04:24.220 --> 01:04:25.220
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:04:25.220 --> 01:04:30.860
 So, so kind of following up to Commissioner Dyer's comment on that, since so many of them

01:04:30.860 --> 01:04:37.420
 did respond and with 85% that they wanted a covered front porch, why is that not just

01:04:37.420 --> 01:04:38.420
 a requirement?

01:04:38.420 --> 01:04:42.980
 Because we say you have to have a stoop or a porch but not necessarily covered.

01:04:42.980 --> 01:04:49.260
 You know, it's and we could certainly make modifications to that.

01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:54.940
 Really just trying to make sure that that homes have that, that, that relationship to

01:04:54.940 --> 01:05:02.100
 the street, the, that usable front porch or front entryway where, where, where it creates

01:05:02.100 --> 01:05:05.460
 that dynamic front, front engagement.

01:05:05.460 --> 01:05:15.700
 So you know, our boards did have a stoop as well as a front porch and so we are just trying

01:05:15.700 --> 01:05:21.740
 to capture as much flexibility and, and again, that's where we're looking at balancing because

01:05:21.740 --> 01:05:28.220
 we want to make sure that there's flexibility so that it can accommodate different tastes

01:05:28.220 --> 01:05:35.820
 or different price points and, and so trying to, trying to have that flexibility but still

01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:37.780
 get the intent of what that is.

01:05:37.780 --> 01:05:40.300
 Yeah, I think I need to clarify my question.

01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:46.380
 So I think, so the way, the way you presented it in your presentation, it was a stoop or

01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:51.660
 a covered front porch and I'm assuming a stoop is basically just a front porch without a

01:05:51.660 --> 01:05:52.660
 cover.

01:05:52.660 --> 01:05:53.660
 Correct.

01:05:53.660 --> 01:05:54.660
 Okay.

01:05:54.660 --> 01:05:57.540
 So, so I guess, but in the survey it says covered front porch or stoop.

01:05:57.540 --> 01:06:02.140
 So I'm looking at it thinking the way that that's where it is, whether it's a porch

01:06:02.140 --> 01:06:03.140
 or stoop to be covered.

01:06:03.140 --> 01:06:06.740
 And so I guess maybe that's just my naivete on reading it.

01:06:06.740 --> 01:06:10.620
 So thank you.

01:06:10.620 --> 01:06:15.820
 So I've got sort of a general question and then I want to make sure we get through the

01:06:15.820 --> 01:06:18.940
 detailed questions.

01:06:18.940 --> 01:06:26.100
 I'm trying to understand the, as you talked at the beginning, balancing the different

01:06:26.100 --> 01:06:34.900
 priority or goals, right, of on the one hand, the preserving the neighborhood character,

01:06:34.900 --> 01:06:39.620
 which I feel like we need to define about 18 times every time we say it, as far as whether

01:06:39.620 --> 01:06:49.580
 it's building centric or community people centric, because those are two different things,

01:06:49.580 --> 01:06:57.380
 as well as being livable and inclusive and remaining affordable, right?

01:06:57.380 --> 01:07:09.140
 And then I see that almost all of the suggestions are very well thought out methods of maintaining

01:07:09.140 --> 01:07:18.260
 new builds, having architectural similarity with some of the different styles in the neighborhood,

01:07:18.260 --> 01:07:21.340
 but they are, they're not zero cost, right?

01:07:21.340 --> 01:07:29.460
 So I guess my question is, did the community have any feedback about, yes, we want these

01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:34.260
 things even though we understand they cost more?

01:07:34.260 --> 01:07:41.140
 So we really didn't get into cost, but affordability is one part of it and on one of our boards

01:07:41.140 --> 01:07:47.420
 we talked about, asked the community, hey, would you like to see twin homes in southeastern?

01:07:47.420 --> 01:07:56.940
 And that's essentially a duplex that is cut, that the lot line cuts that house in half.

01:07:56.940 --> 01:08:05.340
 It's been a really well used intervention in places like Dallas and Fort Worth.

01:08:05.340 --> 01:08:16.580
 So you could own your home fee simple, but you kind of get the benefit of the more affordable

01:08:16.580 --> 01:08:19.180
 and the community did not like them.

01:08:19.180 --> 01:08:26.420
 So it really didn't come into play, that affordability aspect, because we tried to add some of that

01:08:26.420 --> 01:08:33.460
 in to see where it was and the community just wasn't interested in that at this time.

01:08:33.460 --> 01:08:35.340
 Okay.

01:08:35.340 --> 01:08:37.500
 Can you go back to the list of questions?

01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:38.500
 You bet.

01:08:38.500 --> 01:08:42.820
 Got to make our way through them before we finish here.

01:08:42.820 --> 01:08:46.380
 Yeah, why don't we do that?

01:08:46.380 --> 01:08:53.460
 Let's take two minutes, try to grab food quickly and then those of us who are not chewing can

01:08:53.460 --> 01:08:58.740
 offer some directions on one through six as we continue before we reconvene.

01:08:58.740 --> 01:09:06.060
 So two minute recess, we'll be back at 6.11 p.m. at 6.09 now.

01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:07.060
 Good afternoon.

01:09:07.060 --> 01:09:13.500
 At 6.15 p.m. we will reconvene the work session of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

01:09:13.500 --> 01:09:19.080
 I think Tina Ferguson has a couple of comments and then we'll continue through the questions.

01:09:19.080 --> 01:09:20.080
 Thank you, Chair.

01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:21.340
 So during the break I was talking with staff.

01:09:21.340 --> 01:09:25.540
 So we realize this is an extensive amount of information that we're presenting to you

01:09:25.540 --> 01:09:30.300
 this evening and I know we have six questions to be able to get through.

01:09:30.300 --> 01:09:35.620
 Given the fact that we also still have additional public engagement scheduled, if the commission

01:09:35.620 --> 01:09:40.620
 feels comfortable waiting to provide feedback on these questions until after we've done

01:09:40.620 --> 01:09:45.220
 that additional engagement, that's an available option for you all.

01:09:45.220 --> 01:09:49.100
 So just kind of reading the tea leaves from the level of questions that were being asked

01:09:49.100 --> 01:09:55.000
 earlier, if there's some hesitancy on making decisions related to certain requirements

01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:01.260
 associated with new single-family residences being built within this area, again, we're

01:10:01.260 --> 01:10:05.220
 happy to go get that additional public feedback and then we could bring this back at your

01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:08.540
 meeting in July.

01:10:08.540 --> 01:10:09.540
 Thank you.

01:10:09.540 --> 01:10:10.540
 Yeah, I think that would be helpful.

01:10:10.540 --> 01:10:13.300
 There have been a couple of comments to that direction already.

01:10:13.300 --> 01:10:19.820
 However, I would like to give everybody an opportunity to say kind of where they are.

01:10:19.820 --> 01:10:24.420
 I think given the limited time, this may go smoother if we just have person by person

01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:28.180
 instead of question by question since it's a little bit, hey, let's go get some more

01:10:28.180 --> 01:10:33.100
 feedback and then come back and make some final determinations.

01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:38.140
 It looks like Commissioner McDuff, do you have your thoughts collected yet that you would

01:10:38.140 --> 01:10:39.140
 like to offer anything?

01:10:39.140 --> 01:10:41.740
 You can just kind of go down the road.

01:10:41.740 --> 01:10:47.940
 I was kind of focused on that carbon that we were eating, carbohydrate, where my thoughts

01:10:47.940 --> 01:10:53.060
 were, Eric, but anyway, one, I appreciate all this.

01:10:53.060 --> 01:10:59.820
 I'd love to see continued feedback in public engagement and Ms. Tina, I do not have an

01:10:59.820 --> 01:11:05.060
 issue with waiting after we have some more public engagement.

01:11:05.060 --> 01:11:07.180
 I appreciate all these.

01:11:07.180 --> 01:11:12.500
 I believe the question or the requirements, the two versus, or rather the three versus

01:11:12.500 --> 01:11:20.700
 the two, I think that they were included in the information prior that we received to

01:11:20.700 --> 01:11:22.420
 answer that question.

01:11:22.420 --> 01:11:31.420
 So I think if we see also this in, we received the slide deck in the mail, I think that in

01:11:31.420 --> 01:11:37.780
 our email that would be useful too and then we could study it at our leisure.

01:11:37.780 --> 01:11:41.500
 Okay, thank you.

01:11:41.500 --> 01:11:44.580
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:11:44.580 --> 01:11:49.420
 So I do think the additional feedback would be helpful, but I can kind of tell you where

01:11:49.420 --> 01:11:55.980
 I stand based on reading through the packet and kind of your questions here.

01:11:55.980 --> 01:12:01.900
 So number one, I'm in agreement with that.

01:12:01.900 --> 01:12:09.460
 Number two, I do share concerns as Commissioner Dyer about if we reduce that front setback

01:12:09.460 --> 01:12:13.680
 that we end up having a lot, nothing but house essentially.

01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:19.540
 So maybe ways we can not have that happen.

01:12:19.540 --> 01:12:23.780
 Requirement minimum port sizes for porches or stoops, I think that's a good idea.

01:12:23.780 --> 01:12:31.100
 Does Commissioner Kerr with design centers?

01:12:31.100 --> 01:12:33.380
 I guess I need more time on that one.

01:12:33.380 --> 01:12:42.620
 And then number five, the height, you made a comment during your presentation that it

01:12:42.620 --> 01:12:51.180
 was one and a half stories, but they can get two full stories in with, and maybe I misheard

01:12:51.180 --> 01:12:52.180
 you too.

01:12:52.180 --> 01:12:54.700
 No, it's a good question.

01:12:54.700 --> 01:13:01.500
 The primary structure as proposed would be 30 feet, which would allow for two stories.

01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:05.540
 The accessory structure is 20 feet, which would be about one and a half stories.

01:13:05.540 --> 01:13:10.020
 So it would require the accessory structures to be physically smaller.

01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:15.620
 Okay, then I'm in agreement with that.

01:13:15.620 --> 01:13:26.780
 And then I think feedback we can comment on, I can comment on six once we have more feedback,

01:13:26.780 --> 01:13:27.780
 I think.

01:13:27.780 --> 01:13:33.900
 That's kind of my thoughts.

01:13:33.900 --> 01:13:36.280
 Commissioner McDade.

01:13:36.280 --> 01:13:42.620
 In general, I would like to hear some additional feedback from the neighborhood based on what

01:13:42.620 --> 01:13:45.860
 you're proposing and what you're coming up with.

01:13:45.860 --> 01:13:51.980
 I'm a little bit confused about the options that they get to pick and choose.

01:13:51.980 --> 01:14:00.220
 I think that it may just be me and the way the chart is set up, and maybe you can maybe

01:14:00.220 --> 01:14:03.960
 do a little better job when you go back to the neighborhood and say, based on everything

01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:08.160
 you said and what you did, this is what we came up with, but when you have those other

01:14:08.160 --> 01:14:12.020
 things over there, it does get a little bit confusing because it looks like, are you requiring

01:14:12.020 --> 01:14:15.940
 more in Southeast End than you require anywhere else?

01:14:15.940 --> 01:14:24.140
 I think your meeting in the park, I forgot where you all called it, with the DOT meeting,

01:14:24.140 --> 01:14:25.140
 I loved it.

01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:26.140
 It was great.

01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:29.940
 You know, if you could go do something like that, I'm not saying doing another one of

01:14:29.940 --> 01:14:30.940
 those.

01:14:30.940 --> 01:14:34.860
 I know that was a lot, but that was certainly very informative, and the community really

01:14:34.860 --> 01:14:38.940
 appreciated and loved participating in it because they felt like they were being part

01:14:38.940 --> 01:14:43.660
 of the plan, but certainly would like to hear back from the community on what you came up

01:14:43.660 --> 01:14:44.660
 with, actually.

01:14:44.660 --> 01:14:45.660
 Thank you.

01:14:45.660 --> 01:14:46.660
 You bet.

01:14:46.660 --> 01:14:47.660
 Commissioner Pedron?

01:14:47.660 --> 01:14:48.660
 My apologies.

01:14:48.660 --> 01:15:04.020
 I'm in favor of waiting to get some more engagement to see if the community provides an additional

01:15:04.020 --> 01:15:05.020
 comment.

01:15:05.020 --> 01:15:09.180
 However, I think for the majority of the proposal, I am in agreement.

01:15:09.180 --> 01:15:14.760
 I'll kind of follow Commissioner Riggs and go through.

01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:19.740
 Question one, I would say that I'm in agreement with question one.

01:15:19.740 --> 01:15:25.300
 I am a little hesitant with the setbacks size.

01:15:25.300 --> 01:15:31.140
 I would like to, I'm not sure if the community was specifically given what that could look

01:15:31.140 --> 01:15:33.700
 like and what their feedback is.

01:15:33.700 --> 01:15:35.980
 So some more questions on that.

01:15:35.980 --> 01:15:36.980
 Okay.

01:15:36.980 --> 01:15:43.460
 Yes, I agree with the minimum sizes for porches and stoops, and I also am supportive of getting

01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:49.380
 the option whether to have a covered porch or a stoop and how that can be a communal

01:15:49.380 --> 01:15:52.260
 space for someone's home.

01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:56.160
 Let's see, does the commission concur?

01:15:56.160 --> 01:16:02.940
 I think that what has been proposed was good to kind of keep in order with what is already

01:16:02.940 --> 01:16:05.420
 existing within the community.

01:16:05.420 --> 01:16:10.580
 Not entirely confident in agreeing with that one just yet, but I do think that the due

01:16:10.580 --> 01:16:17.420
 diligence was taken to kind of meet more of that visual standard.

01:16:17.420 --> 01:16:23.100
 I would like to know though what the community thinks about affordability, because I think

01:16:23.100 --> 01:16:28.820
 it was briefly touched upon during the conversation that those conversations haven't necessarily

01:16:28.820 --> 01:16:33.380
 really taken place with affordability, and I think it could definitely sway what their

01:16:33.380 --> 01:16:37.420
 preferences may or may not be.

01:16:37.420 --> 01:16:42.800
 Height limitations, I would agree with that, and then are there any items, again going

01:16:42.800 --> 01:16:51.060
 back to affordability being a big one, because if it's the option of having a home, being

01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:57.080
 able to afford a home with all the restrictions or not, then I wonder what they would choose.

01:16:57.080 --> 01:17:03.140
 I think that there was some conversation regarding the two requirements over the three requirements.

01:17:03.140 --> 01:17:08.960
 I'm in favor of keeping it to two additional requirements, since the stoop or the porch

01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:16.180
 is already considered a required feature, again based on affordability and then just

01:17:16.180 --> 01:17:20.260
 flexibility and just taste and opinion.

01:17:20.260 --> 01:17:21.260
 Okay.

01:17:21.260 --> 01:17:22.260
 Thank you.

01:17:22.260 --> 01:17:26.460
 Commissioner Dyer.

01:17:26.460 --> 01:17:31.100
 I'm in agreement with what my fellow commissioners have said about, it would be really nice to

01:17:31.100 --> 01:17:40.260
 get just a little bit more feedback on some of the things that we had questions about.

01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:44.380
 There's probably more questions on the same things from the community, and definitely

01:17:44.380 --> 01:17:51.020
 with the affordability factor, I'll kind of skip down to number six.

01:17:51.020 --> 01:17:57.460
 When you're looking at that one overlay area that allows for MN and PF, does that mean

01:17:57.460 --> 01:17:59.660
 apartments?

01:17:59.660 --> 01:18:06.040
 How does the community feel about multi-family living in those communities, especially since

01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:10.180
 it sounds like most of it is single-family?

01:18:10.180 --> 01:18:13.260
 I loved your new terminology, you're going to have to share that with me again so I can

01:18:13.260 --> 01:18:17.660
 put it into my memory bank instead of calling it a duplex, what was it called, a split?

01:18:17.660 --> 01:18:18.660
 A twin home.

01:18:18.660 --> 01:18:26.620
 I'm going to use that, a twin home instead of a duplex, but what about two-story town

01:18:26.620 --> 01:18:28.440
 homes?

01:18:28.440 --> 01:18:33.620
 Would that fit in the height requirements?

01:18:33.620 --> 01:18:40.180
 Would it allow for the affordability where I know it's not a twin home, it's not a duplex

01:18:40.180 --> 01:18:50.620
 and they're all attached, but you can build super cute looking town homes that are the

01:18:50.620 --> 01:18:57.220
 bungalow, the craftsman, like you can have the developers create that facade to make

01:18:57.220 --> 01:19:04.500
 it look like it fits in, like it's a 1960s, 1930s style deal, so that's why I skipped

01:19:04.500 --> 01:19:09.800
 to number six, because that was kind of my question is, are we going to allow apartments

01:19:09.800 --> 01:19:16.220
 or multi-family apartments, you know, axed out of, you know, out of this plan?

01:19:16.220 --> 01:19:26.740
 But if you go back to the questions, sorry, yes, I mean, yes, I concur with number one,

01:19:26.740 --> 01:19:28.700
 I don't really concur with number two.

01:19:28.700 --> 01:19:35.620
 I feel like once the community understands that they could have 10 feet in the front

01:19:35.620 --> 01:19:40.220
 and 10 feet in the back, I think they're going to be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa," you know,

01:19:40.220 --> 01:19:50.260
 it just makes for a really super big house on a smaller lot, and one of the dots that

01:19:50.260 --> 01:19:56.380
 was kind of a negative was having, you know, the houses close to your neighbors, so those

01:19:56.380 --> 01:20:04.880
 bigger houses, more people saw that as a negative, so I feel like that, if people really understood

01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:12.080
 all of that, and maybe they did and they're okay with it, yes, require minimum sizes on

01:20:12.080 --> 01:20:18.620
 porch and stoops, and I did like all, you know, the bigger windows and, you know, all

01:20:18.620 --> 01:20:26.140
 the different moldings and stuff in it, and then the proposed height limitations, yes,

01:20:26.140 --> 01:20:33.300
 as long as we're not looking at like, you know, super small ceiling heights on first

01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:40.220
 story and second story, you know, on the first and second story floors of a second story

01:20:40.220 --> 01:20:41.220
 house.

01:20:41.220 --> 01:20:42.220
 Right.

01:20:42.220 --> 01:20:43.220
 If that makes sense.

01:20:43.220 --> 01:20:44.220
 Yes.

01:20:44.220 --> 01:20:45.220
 Yes.

01:20:45.220 --> 01:20:46.220
 We can verify that again.

01:20:46.220 --> 01:20:47.220
 Okay.

01:20:47.220 --> 01:20:48.220
 Just make sure.

01:20:48.220 --> 01:20:49.220
 Yeah.

01:20:49.220 --> 01:20:50.220
 Yeah.

01:20:50.220 --> 01:20:51.220
 Thank you.

01:20:51.220 --> 01:20:54.420
 I'll be, hopefully, brief.

01:20:54.420 --> 01:21:02.500
 I think I'll lump together a lot of the aesthetic suggestions as great ideas to make the buildings

01:21:02.500 --> 01:21:08.180
 fit in with the existing neighborhood that costs money, and so we just need to be very

01:21:08.180 --> 01:21:15.380
 clear with the community that, hey, look, if this is the way we want it to look, then

01:21:15.380 --> 01:21:24.540
 you're going to see a different type of income individual buying new houses in this neighborhood.

01:21:24.540 --> 01:21:25.540
 Okay.

01:21:25.540 --> 01:21:30.260
 And if that's not your desire, then here are a menu of other things that we can still

01:21:30.260 --> 01:21:43.280
 get the increased quality and architecture that you seek while allowing or encouraging

01:21:43.280 --> 01:21:46.100
 more affordable options, right?

01:21:46.100 --> 01:21:48.220
 Maybe that's not the twin home if they don't like that.

01:21:48.220 --> 01:21:52.700
 Maybe it's townhomes, maybe it's smaller lots, maybe it's, I don't know.

01:21:52.700 --> 01:21:57.100
 You guys are more creative than I am, excuse me.

01:21:57.100 --> 01:22:04.340
 And then just a couple kind of where I am comments outside of that.

01:22:04.340 --> 01:22:14.740
 The height measuring and 20 versus 30 feet and what that means, it feels very confusing

01:22:14.740 --> 01:22:15.740
 to me.

01:22:15.740 --> 01:22:21.420
 Is there a reason why we can't just say two stories on the main house and whatever it

01:22:21.420 --> 01:22:23.100
 is on accessory structures?

01:22:23.100 --> 01:22:31.580
 I'm worried when we have restrictive height limits that it's going to encourage non-ideal

01:22:31.580 --> 01:22:37.020
 architecture, which is what we're trying to get away from it, if that makes sense.

01:22:37.020 --> 01:22:43.020
 And then lastly, on the height overlay, and this is probably a discussion that all of

01:22:43.020 --> 01:22:49.620
 us will be a little bit more aware of when it comes back after some feedback, I'm concerned

01:22:49.620 --> 01:22:54.860
 if we message it to the community as we're going to put a 40 foot height limit here and

01:22:54.860 --> 01:23:00.260
 then SB 840 comes in and once we get all this stuff implemented three or four years from

01:23:00.260 --> 01:23:04.460
 now, we can't enforce that and it's 45 feet.

01:23:04.460 --> 01:23:07.740
 That's a messaging problem, if you will.

01:23:07.740 --> 01:23:13.860
 So I don't know if 45 feet is a bad goal now, but we need to be clear with the community

01:23:13.860 --> 01:23:14.860
 through this process.

01:23:14.860 --> 01:23:15.860
 Okay.

01:23:15.860 --> 01:23:16.860
 Good.

01:23:16.860 --> 01:23:17.860
 Thank you.

01:23:17.860 --> 01:23:18.860
 Thank you.

01:23:18.860 --> 01:23:19.860
 Commissioner MacDuff.

01:23:19.860 --> 01:23:26.220
 I feel like my comments were intellectually sound as the rest of you all, but I will say

01:23:26.220 --> 01:23:32.220
 from all this material, what I had circled was on the building heights and the folks

01:23:32.220 --> 01:23:37.500
 not wanting the three stories, concerned about that, out of everything.

01:23:37.500 --> 01:23:41.580
 It seems to be one of the biggest concerns with the community.

01:23:41.580 --> 01:23:46.540
 I don't know if we had talked about the price points, Ms. Julie, as you said, the price

01:23:46.540 --> 01:23:53.220
 points, so the affordability, but this that was shared was the stories, three stories.

01:23:53.220 --> 01:23:54.220
 Okay.

01:23:54.220 --> 01:23:55.220
 Yeah.

01:23:55.220 --> 01:24:00.140
 And that kind of go along with Commissioner MacDuff, that's why I asked about the apartments

01:24:00.140 --> 01:24:07.100
 because if they don't want three stories, I'm going to assume they don't want apartments.

01:24:07.100 --> 01:24:13.140
 So remember, the overlay would not change as proposed, doesn't make any changes to the

01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.340
 permitted uses.

01:24:14.340 --> 01:24:23.060
 So in that residential area, it's already zoned, the R4 and R3, there's a little bit

01:24:23.060 --> 01:24:28.020
 of R7 on the south side, you can see right here, that would require a specific use permit

01:24:28.020 --> 01:24:33.500
 for multifamily, but multifamily, oh, there's a little bit of R4 here on Prairie as well.

01:24:33.500 --> 01:24:39.140
 R4 and R3 don't permit multifamily, so it would not introduce that use.

01:24:39.140 --> 01:24:40.140
 Right.

01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:41.140
 And just kind of piggyback on that.

01:24:41.140 --> 01:24:43.940
 Because again, one of the clear messages that we heard from the community when we did this

01:24:43.940 --> 01:24:48.940
 area plan is they want to keep their existing neighborhood the way it is today, right?

01:24:48.940 --> 01:24:54.780
 So they're concerned about new construction coming in and being disruptive to the neighborhood.

01:24:54.780 --> 01:24:59.340
 So that's why we were very specific to not change the base zoning to make sure that the

01:24:59.340 --> 01:25:03.340
 townhome and the multifamily would not be able to be developed.

01:25:03.340 --> 01:25:06.700
 I believe townhomes, are they allowed in R7 by right?

01:25:06.700 --> 01:25:09.500
 R7, R4, they require specific use permit.

01:25:09.500 --> 01:25:10.500
 Okay.

01:25:10.500 --> 01:25:14.180
 So that limited area of R7 is, I would say, is more on the fringe of the neighborhood.

01:25:14.180 --> 01:25:17.220
 So to Julie's point, we would not be changing any of that.

01:25:17.220 --> 01:25:21.300
 So any of this conversation about increasing allowing townhome development or multifamily

01:25:21.300 --> 01:25:26.580
 more interior to the neighborhood, in my opinion, that's not on the table for discussion because

01:25:26.580 --> 01:25:35.140
 the neighborhood specifically told us they were not interested in that.

01:25:35.140 --> 01:25:42.180
 Just following back up on the comment about the front yard setback, so I guess there's

01:25:42.180 --> 01:25:46.380
 a maximum building size that can go on the lot.

01:25:46.380 --> 01:25:48.180
 Correct.

01:25:48.180 --> 01:25:51.900
 Maybe when you go back out to the community, you can kind of show what that would end up

01:25:51.900 --> 01:25:52.900
 looking like.

01:25:52.900 --> 01:25:53.900
 Okay.

01:25:53.900 --> 01:25:59.180
 Because otherwise, to Commissioner Dyer's point and what I was saying earlier, the thought

01:25:59.180 --> 01:26:02.860
 is then you could have a lot with this all house, but that's really not the case.

01:26:02.860 --> 01:26:08.580
 So how much of a backyard would that be and that kinds of things?

01:26:08.580 --> 01:26:09.580
 Okay.

01:26:09.580 --> 01:26:10.580
 Mr. Dyer.

01:26:10.580 --> 01:26:14.180
 Are you thinking kind of like where you have like a 7,000 square foot lot, kind of like

01:26:14.180 --> 01:26:21.380
 a pre-plat, like a pre-survey, and then you kind of show like how a house could sit on

01:26:21.380 --> 01:26:22.380
 it?

01:26:22.380 --> 01:26:24.740
 What the maximum could be on that lot?

01:26:24.740 --> 01:26:25.740
 Yeah.

01:26:25.740 --> 01:26:29.180
 Essentially, what's the maximum square footage that the house could occupy?

01:26:29.180 --> 01:26:35.940
 Like a house with the front porch and a garage and all that stuff and how that would sit

01:26:35.940 --> 01:26:42.740
 and then do those dots and see one where the setbacks are what they are zoned for now and

01:26:42.740 --> 01:26:49.220
 one for the zone with the 10 foot and the 10 foot and see where those dots land.

01:26:49.220 --> 01:26:51.900
 Well, and I guess I just want to make sure that we're clear.

01:26:51.900 --> 01:26:55.140
 So I know I've heard you say a couple of times the concern regarding somebody building a

01:26:55.140 --> 01:27:00.020
 house 10 foot to 10 foot, but to that point, that building envelope pad, they're not going

01:27:00.020 --> 01:27:02.520
 to be able to maximize that entire building envelope pad.

01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:09.140
 So if somebody wanted to build a house that went that full distance, in all likelihood,

01:27:09.140 --> 01:27:13.020
 the entire house is not going to be able to do that because of that maximum lot coverage

01:27:13.020 --> 01:27:14.180
 that comes into play.

01:27:14.180 --> 01:27:20.180
 So that's going to restrict that compared to what we see maybe in some other neighborhoods

01:27:20.180 --> 01:27:24.080
 that are being done where builders are truly trying to maximize that building footprint.

01:27:24.080 --> 01:27:27.780
 So if we also need to look at the lot coverage and make sure the lot coverage percentage

01:27:27.780 --> 01:27:32.340
 still tries to address the concern that you have about maximizing that building envelope,

01:27:32.340 --> 01:27:39.500
 I think that's something that we can definitely take a look at also in seeing how we can prevent

01:27:39.500 --> 01:27:41.460
 that or minimize that concern.

01:27:41.460 --> 01:27:46.700
 And lastly, I would say there are, I believe, two houses that are under construction or

01:27:46.700 --> 01:27:53.180
 probably nearing completion that are on McKinney that are some would say on the north end of

01:27:53.180 --> 01:27:55.580
 the Southeast Denton neighborhood.

01:27:55.580 --> 01:28:00.140
 Take a look at those structures because that's what the community is concerned about is those

01:28:00.140 --> 01:28:04.860
 two houses that are new construction, how they have maximized building footprint, but

01:28:04.860 --> 01:28:11.020
 especially the scale and the overall massing of the structures taking advantage of, you

01:28:11.020 --> 01:28:16.360
 know, our 40 foot height dimension on a gable roof is to the midline, right?

01:28:16.360 --> 01:28:17.780
 It's not to the ridge.

01:28:17.780 --> 01:28:21.500
 So trying to mitigate those kinds of concerns that we're seeing there because if that type

01:28:21.500 --> 01:28:25.260
 of housing were to start to be built in Southeast Denton, I know the community would be very

01:28:25.260 --> 01:28:30.180
 concerned about that and concerned about the disruptive nature of it, given the context

01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:33.180
 of the rest of the neighborhood.

01:28:33.180 --> 01:28:35.740
 That's good info.

01:28:35.740 --> 01:28:38.780
 Commissioner McDade.

01:28:38.780 --> 01:28:46.100
 Was there a Southeast Denton neighborhood committee who approved or worked with the city on putting

01:28:46.100 --> 01:28:48.120
 this plan together?

01:28:48.120 --> 01:28:49.120
 The area plan?

01:28:49.120 --> 01:28:50.940
 Was there a designated committee?

01:28:50.940 --> 01:28:55.780
 So we had a steering committee, and we also spent a lot of time within the community.

01:28:55.780 --> 01:29:04.180
 So that steering committee validated the information that we received from the community throughout

01:29:04.180 --> 01:29:05.940
 the planning process.

01:29:05.940 --> 01:29:10.900
 So have you taken your recommendations back to that specific committee?

01:29:10.900 --> 01:29:17.280
 No, but we could certainly as part of our online survey, we could certainly provide

01:29:17.280 --> 01:29:21.220
 it to them to see if they had any additional feedback.

01:29:21.220 --> 01:29:22.220
 Sure.

01:29:22.220 --> 01:29:23.220
 Absolutely.

01:29:23.220 --> 01:29:24.220
 Yeah.

01:29:24.220 --> 01:29:25.220
 Thank you.

01:29:25.220 --> 01:29:26.220
 Great idea.

01:29:26.220 --> 01:29:27.220
 Okay.

01:29:27.220 --> 01:29:28.220
 You're good.

01:29:28.220 --> 01:29:29.220
 Okay.

01:29:29.220 --> 01:29:30.220
 Thank you.

01:29:30.220 --> 01:29:32.700
 I'm sorry we ran over, but I think this was very helpful.

01:29:32.700 --> 01:29:33.700
 It was.

01:29:33.700 --> 01:29:34.700
 Yeah.

01:29:34.700 --> 01:29:37.620
 I'm looking forward to seeing what this becomes, so thank you.

01:29:37.620 --> 01:29:38.620
 Okay.

01:29:38.620 --> 01:29:39.620
 Yes.

01:29:39.620 --> 01:29:44.300
 So just to confirm, so we will do the additional public engagement, and then we will bring

01:29:44.300 --> 01:29:50.260
 this back either at your July meeting or depending upon the events that are scheduled, maybe

01:29:50.260 --> 01:29:53.300
 in August at the latest.

01:29:53.300 --> 01:29:54.740
 Okay.

01:29:54.740 --> 01:30:10.060
 And with that, at 636, we will adjourn the work session and reconvene in council chambers.

01:30:10.060 --> 01:30:18.340
 Good evening, at 642 PM on this Wednesday, June 25th, I will call our regular meeting

01:30:18.340 --> 01:30:23.740
 of the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Denton to order.

01:30:23.740 --> 01:30:28.740
 Our first order of business is to stand and say pledge allegiance to the U.S. and Texas

01:30:28.740 --> 01:30:29.740
 flag.

01:30:29.740 --> 01:30:40.560
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:49.540
 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

01:30:49.540 --> 01:31:02.060
 I, the member of the Texas flag, pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one nation

01:31:02.060 --> 01:31:03.860
 indivisible.

01:31:03.860 --> 01:31:13.060
 Our next item of business is item 2A, PZ25011, approval of the minutes for both May 28th

01:31:13.060 --> 01:31:14.700
 and June 11th.

01:31:14.700 --> 01:31:19.300
 Is there a motion or any discussion?

01:31:19.300 --> 01:31:20.300
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:31:20.300 --> 01:31:26.900
 I have a motion to approve.

01:31:26.900 --> 01:31:27.900
 Commissioner Pedrone.

01:31:27.900 --> 01:31:29.900
 I second.

01:31:29.900 --> 01:31:30.900
 Okay.

01:31:30.900 --> 01:31:41.180
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on board.

01:31:41.180 --> 01:31:43.780
 That item passes 6-0.

01:31:43.780 --> 01:31:56.460
 Our next item is item 3A, the Consent Agenda, FP25-0018A.

01:31:56.460 --> 01:31:57.460
 Commissioner Pedrone.

01:31:57.460 --> 01:31:59.320
 I move approval.

01:31:59.320 --> 01:32:00.320
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:32:00.320 --> 01:32:01.740
 I second.

01:32:01.740 --> 01:32:11.900
 And seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

01:32:11.900 --> 01:32:14.460
 And the Consent Agenda passes 6-0.

01:32:14.460 --> 01:32:21.180
 It moves us to items for individual figure consideration.

01:32:21.180 --> 01:32:22.660
 Item 4A, FP25-0021.

01:32:22.660 --> 01:32:30.340
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

01:32:30.340 --> 01:32:38.680
 Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:43.740
 This is 4A, FP25-0021.

01:32:43.740 --> 01:32:47.580
 This is a final plat for Red Bird Ridge Phase 2.

01:32:47.580 --> 01:32:52.100
 At this time, they are not meeting our criteria for approval, but they've requested an extension

01:32:52.100 --> 01:32:58.580
 which would be granted to July 23rd, 2025, and staff has no objection with that request.

01:32:58.580 --> 01:33:05.180
 I'll stand for any questions.

01:33:05.180 --> 01:33:06.180
 Commissioner Pedrone.

01:33:06.180 --> 01:33:11.940
 I move to approve the extension to date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

01:33:11.940 --> 01:33:12.940
 Sorry.

01:33:12.940 --> 01:33:15.940
 Commissioner McDade.

01:33:15.940 --> 01:33:17.980
 I'll second the motion.

01:33:17.980 --> 01:33:18.980
 Good.

01:33:18.980 --> 01:33:29.300
 Seeing no questions, call for a vote on the board.

01:33:29.300 --> 01:33:31.180
 Motion to continue passes 6-0.

01:33:31.180 --> 01:33:36.300
 It moves us to item 4B, FR25-0017.

01:33:36.300 --> 01:33:42.540
 Good evening, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

01:33:42.540 --> 01:33:44.120
 This is 4B.

01:33:44.120 --> 01:33:48.060
 This is a final replat of Red Bird Ridge Phase 1.

01:33:48.060 --> 01:33:52.380
 So this property is just south of the property that we just voted on.

01:33:52.380 --> 01:33:59.380
 This is just a replat to adjust some lot lines and some right of way that they've needed

01:33:59.380 --> 01:34:02.820
 to change since extending onto Phase 2.

01:34:02.820 --> 01:34:06.820
 So at this time, it's not meeting our criteria for approval, but staff has no objection to

01:34:06.820 --> 01:34:13.420
 the request extension to date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

01:34:13.420 --> 01:34:15.180
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:34:15.180 --> 01:34:19.580
 Make a motion to extend to July 23rd, 2025.

01:34:19.580 --> 01:34:20.580
 Commissioner Dyer.

01:34:20.580 --> 01:34:22.460
 I second that.

01:34:22.460 --> 01:34:24.340
 Thank you.

01:34:24.340 --> 01:34:46.580
 Seeing no questions, call for a vote on the board.

01:34:46.580 --> 01:34:51.620
 That item passes 6-0.

01:34:51.620 --> 01:35:05.540
 Next item is item 4C, FP25-0022, and I believe, Commissioner McDade, you'd like to recuse?

01:35:05.540 --> 01:35:18.580
 All right, good evening, Commission, Matt Bodine, here to present a proposed final plot

01:35:18.580 --> 01:35:23.580
 of Rose-Lana Village Edition, this applies to create a lot of record and establish easements

01:35:23.580 --> 01:35:27.820
 associated with the proposed multi-family development.

01:35:27.820 --> 01:35:31.340
 At the time, this plot doesn't meet our criteria for approval.

01:35:31.340 --> 01:35:39.020
 However, staff has no objection to their extension request to a date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

01:35:39.020 --> 01:35:40.020
 Thank you, Matt.

01:35:40.020 --> 01:35:43.500
 Any questions or a motion?

01:35:43.500 --> 01:35:44.500
 Commissioner Riggs.

01:35:44.500 --> 01:35:50.060
 I make a motion to extend to a date certain July 23rd, 2025.

01:35:50.060 --> 01:35:52.060
 And Commissioner McDuff.

01:35:52.060 --> 01:36:00.560
 I'd like to second Commissioner Riggs' motion to extend the date to a date certain of July

01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:04.100
 23rd, 2025.

01:36:04.100 --> 01:36:05.100
 Thank you.

01:36:05.100 --> 01:36:17.740
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

01:36:17.740 --> 01:36:26.820
 That item passes 5-1-0, brings us to 5-0-1, sorry.

01:36:26.820 --> 01:36:35.340
 Brings us to item 4-D, Matt, if you could get, thank you, yeah.

01:36:35.340 --> 01:36:37.660
 This is FP25-0023.

01:36:37.660 --> 01:36:38.660
 Correct.

01:36:38.660 --> 01:37:01.340
 I'll wait just a moment.

01:37:01.340 --> 01:37:27.780
 Okay, good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

01:37:27.780 --> 01:37:33.860
 Angie Mangleris, development review manager, here to present FP25-0023.

01:37:33.860 --> 01:37:39.260
 This is a final plot for phase 1A of the Coal Ranch Master Plan community.

01:37:39.260 --> 01:37:45.740
 The subject property is located just north of FM2499, about 2,800 feet west of Underwood

01:37:45.740 --> 01:37:46.740
 Road.

01:37:46.740 --> 01:37:50.700
 The purpose of this final plot is to plot phase 1 of the Coal Ranch development, which

01:37:50.700 --> 01:37:57.260
 includes 417 lots for residential development, along with some open space and to dedicate

01:37:57.260 --> 01:37:59.500
 rights of way to serve the development.

01:37:59.500 --> 01:38:02.500
 At this time, the plot does not meet all of our criteria for approval.

01:38:02.500 --> 01:38:06.540
 However, staff is recommending approval of this final plot with the condition that compliance

01:38:06.540 --> 01:38:12.600
 with Denton Development Code, Section 8.3.2.A, which requires the approval of civil engineering

01:38:12.600 --> 01:38:20.060
 plans be achieved prior to the final plot being approved and being released for construction

01:38:20.060 --> 01:38:21.060
 of phase 1.

01:38:21.060 --> 01:38:34.380
 I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.

01:38:34.380 --> 01:38:46.100
 So this first phase that is going to be developed, will the 288 loop when it comes out to 2449,

01:38:46.100 --> 01:38:50.100
 will that come out west of this location?

01:38:50.100 --> 01:38:57.660
 Yes, it is, roughly speaking, it is to the west of it.

01:38:57.660 --> 01:39:01.600
 It's not shown within these boundaries, but it's not within the site boundaries.

01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:09.140
 So will the traffic be impacted greatly with the addition of these homes in this first

01:39:09.140 --> 01:39:11.140
 phase on 2449?

01:39:11.140 --> 01:39:18.020
 Because obviously it's going to be some time until the loop gets extended that way.

01:39:18.020 --> 01:39:23.500
 Sure, I mean there would be some additional traffic that comes with homes, but as part

01:39:23.500 --> 01:39:29.780
 of the CEPs and phase 1 as an entirety, Coal Ranch has been working in coordination with

01:39:29.780 --> 01:39:34.180
 the city to confirm that they're meeting all of our requirements.

01:39:34.180 --> 01:39:36.660
 Thank you.

01:39:36.660 --> 01:39:44.260
 Any other questions or a motion?

01:39:44.260 --> 01:39:45.260
 Commissioner Riggs?

01:39:45.260 --> 01:39:49.620
 I make a motion to approve.

01:39:49.620 --> 01:39:56.620
 Commissioner McDuff, can we, yeah, there's a staff recommended condition, does your motion

01:39:56.620 --> 01:39:57.980
 include that?

01:39:57.980 --> 01:39:58.980
 Yes.

01:39:58.980 --> 01:39:59.980
 Okay.

01:39:59.980 --> 01:40:00.980
 Commissioner McDuff?

01:40:00.980 --> 01:40:10.300
 Yes, I'd like to second that emotion please, and that was recommending approval of the

01:40:10.300 --> 01:40:18.060
 final plan with the following condition from the staff.

01:40:18.060 --> 01:40:26.780
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

01:40:26.780 --> 01:40:30.500
 That item passes 6-0.

01:40:30.500 --> 01:40:46.260
 That brings us to our public hearing portion of our meeting, Item 5A, PDA 25-0003A.

01:40:46.260 --> 01:40:52.020
 Let the record show that Commissioner McDuff is recusing for this item.

01:40:52.020 --> 01:41:02.420
 You would think I would have this down, because two weeks ago I was in Scotland, but I don't,

01:41:02.420 --> 01:41:03.420
 so my apologies.

01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:04.420
 Commissioner McDate?

01:41:04.420 --> 01:41:05.420
 All right.

01:41:05.420 --> 01:41:10.940
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Haley Zuckerski, Assistant Planning Director,

01:41:10.940 --> 01:41:13.740
 filling in this evening for Mia Hines.

01:41:13.740 --> 01:41:19.660
 The request before you is PDA 25-3, Gateway of Denton Signs.

01:41:19.660 --> 01:41:25.700
 So as I stated, the request is for establishing special sign standards within the Plan Development

01:41:25.700 --> 01:41:31.980
 District that covers the southeast corner of Vintage Boulevard and I-35W.

01:41:31.980 --> 01:41:37.060
 Some of you may remember in June of 2024, there was a detailed site plan adopted for

01:41:37.060 --> 01:41:42.100
 this site for a travel plaza that includes a gas station, convenience store, two restaurants

01:41:42.100 --> 01:41:43.100
 and a car wash.

01:41:43.100 --> 01:41:46.380
 The subject property is outlined in black there on the map.

01:41:46.380 --> 01:41:52.700
 You can see it's adjacent to the current on and off ramp for Vintage at I-35.

01:41:52.700 --> 01:41:57.380
 The subject property is a total of just over 4.29 acres.

01:41:57.380 --> 01:42:02.380
 As I mentioned, it sits right next to the jug handle design entrance and exit to I-35.

01:42:02.380 --> 01:42:06.260
 It has frontage on Vintage Boulevard.

01:42:06.260 --> 01:42:10.840
 If you can tell from its current location, it is kind of tucked behind the multifamily

01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:14.900
 development that's recently been built here just to the south for northbound traffic on

01:42:14.900 --> 01:42:15.900
 I-35.

01:42:15.900 --> 01:42:20.700
 That plays a factor in the request this evening.

01:42:20.700 --> 01:42:25.140
 So before we move on, since the sign code is something that's new to some of you all

01:42:25.140 --> 01:42:30.100
 and possibly to the public, I wanted to just give a brief explanation of the purpose of

01:42:30.100 --> 01:42:31.300
 our sign code.

01:42:31.300 --> 01:42:36.660
 So it is intended to help kind of manage the built environment in terms of limiting nuisances

01:42:36.660 --> 01:42:41.700
 and visual clutter and balancing the aesthetics of our community with safety features, but

01:42:41.700 --> 01:42:46.620
 at the same time providing for effective communication of messages and advertising for the businesses

01:42:46.620 --> 01:42:48.900
 in town.

01:42:48.900 --> 01:42:52.920
 So some of the things that the sign code regulates are the number of signs, the height of signs,

01:42:52.920 --> 01:42:57.420
 the size of those, and a lot of that varies by zoning district as well as by the type

01:42:57.420 --> 01:42:59.380
 of street that you're on.

01:42:59.380 --> 01:43:03.740
 So for example, I-35 would typically allow a taller sign than, say, a collector street

01:43:03.740 --> 01:43:04.740
 within the city.

01:43:04.740 --> 01:43:09.780
 But the overall goal is just limiting that visual clutter but ensuring that businesses

01:43:09.780 --> 01:43:13.180
 are able to deliver those commercial messages to the public so that people know where to

01:43:13.180 --> 01:43:16.140
 go to find the businesses they're looking for.

01:43:16.140 --> 01:43:19.140
 All situations cannot be anticipated by our sign code.

01:43:19.140 --> 01:43:23.340
 So it does have two options for people to deviate from it that don't require going to

01:43:23.340 --> 01:43:27.100
 the Board of Adjustment for a variance, and that is if you're part of a plan development,

01:43:27.100 --> 01:43:30.540
 then it calls for those sign standards to be adopted into your PD if you're deviating

01:43:30.540 --> 01:43:35.060
 from the sign code, or you can go through a special sign district creation process.

01:43:35.060 --> 01:43:38.100
 And it's a very similar dual public hearing process to the PD amendment.

01:43:38.100 --> 01:43:40.860
 So for an applicant, those two processes look roughly the same.

01:43:40.860 --> 01:43:44.720
 Tonight, we're going the PD route.

01:43:44.720 --> 01:43:49.480
 So the request before you all, just to go over their site plan briefly, the sign package

01:43:49.480 --> 01:43:53.100
 includes a very specific number of signs.

01:43:53.100 --> 01:44:00.020
 It limits them to two new ground signs that are locations A and B. So A is the pole sign,

01:44:00.020 --> 01:44:04.860
 which is the sign that is exceeding both the height and the size of our sign code.

01:44:04.860 --> 01:44:08.420
 You can see that would advertise for three businesses as well as containing the fuel

01:44:08.420 --> 01:44:10.780
 prices for the business.

01:44:10.780 --> 01:44:15.380
 The other ground sign or monument sign is sign B. That would again be a multi-tenant

01:44:15.380 --> 01:44:21.620
 sign with fuel pricing located on the entrance off of Vintage Boulevard.

01:44:21.620 --> 01:44:25.280
 The sign package includes a variety of wall signs for the buildings themselves.

01:44:25.280 --> 01:44:30.180
 The other ground signs that this is imposing a limit to the number of are those directional

01:44:30.180 --> 01:44:31.180
 signs.

01:44:31.180 --> 01:44:37.740
 So you can see it allows for two each of the following ground signs to advertise for one

01:44:37.740 --> 01:44:42.620
 of the drive-through businesses on site as well as the car wash to help traffic navigate

01:44:42.620 --> 01:44:48.820
 to those entrances and exits to the drive-throughs and the car wash itself.

01:44:48.820 --> 01:44:53.500
 So a quick summary of how this compares to the city standard sign code.

01:44:53.500 --> 01:44:56.500
 In terms of the types of permitted signs, it does not limit that.

01:44:56.500 --> 01:45:00.560
 It imposes limits on the number of ground signs, as I mentioned, but it allows for any

01:45:00.560 --> 01:45:06.260
 type of wall attached or temporary or wind device type signs as allowed by the city standard

01:45:06.260 --> 01:45:07.540
 code.

01:45:07.540 --> 01:45:12.180
 In terms of the maximum effective area, the most significant change with this is again

01:45:12.180 --> 01:45:16.860
 that pole sign is 216 square feet larger than what would be permitted by the standard sign

01:45:16.860 --> 01:45:18.860
 code.

01:45:18.860 --> 01:45:23.340
 The other monument sign on Vintage is actually 86 square feet less than what they would have

01:45:23.340 --> 01:45:24.340
 been allowed.

01:45:24.340 --> 01:45:27.380
 So there are some trade-offs with this as well.

01:45:27.380 --> 01:45:31.820
 Our sign code is actually silent to directional signs, so people are allowed essentially as

01:45:31.820 --> 01:45:32.860
 many of those as they want.

01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:37.300
 We do try to keep the size of them limited, but with this they are imposing a self-imposed

01:45:37.300 --> 01:45:41.780
 maximum of five square feet and 12 square feet on those signs to help ensure that there's

01:45:41.780 --> 01:45:43.340
 not too much visual clutter.

01:45:43.340 --> 01:45:47.740
 So should the site develop with other businesses in the future, the sign face could change,

01:45:47.740 --> 01:45:51.820
 but those sizes would still have to be adhered to.

01:45:51.820 --> 01:45:55.100
 For the height of the signs, again the pole sign is the one that is deviating from the

01:45:55.100 --> 01:45:56.100
 sign code.

01:45:56.100 --> 01:45:59.180
 It's 20 feet higher than what would typically be allowed.

01:45:59.180 --> 01:46:02.100
 Again, that's due to that location on I-35.

01:46:02.100 --> 01:46:06.100
 If you've driven down there, you know once you get out of the main lanes that it's kind

01:46:06.100 --> 01:46:08.300
 of elevated for the ramp.

01:46:08.300 --> 01:46:14.460
 So that elevation combined with the new multifamily that's 45 feet height imposes visibility restrictions

01:46:14.460 --> 01:46:16.500
 for this particular corner.

01:46:16.500 --> 01:46:22.140
 Again, limiting the height of those directional signs on site to three and five feet.

01:46:22.140 --> 01:46:24.720
 They are imposing setbacks for the signs.

01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:30.000
 Those are 20 feet from the property line for the two, the pole sign and the monument sign,

01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:35.220
 and one foot off of the internal drive aisles at a minimum for those directional signs.

01:46:35.220 --> 01:46:39.340
 And then they are imposing limitations to only four directional signs.

01:46:39.340 --> 01:46:43.420
 Again, our sign code doesn't speak to that, so they would typically be allowed more of

01:46:43.420 --> 01:46:47.740
 those as long as they were staying in correct locations on site.

01:46:47.740 --> 01:46:51.980
 They are adhering to the sign code in terms of the number of signs allowed on I-35 and

01:46:51.980 --> 01:46:54.980
 vintage.

01:46:54.980 --> 01:46:58.300
 So for this case, there were actually three sets of criteria for approval.

01:46:58.300 --> 01:47:01.580
 So you notice your staff analysis was a little lengthier than normal because we had the sign

01:47:01.580 --> 01:47:06.800
 code standards as well as our normal standards in the DDC.

01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:10.780
 In terms of what the sign code calls for when someone is seeking to deviate through either

01:47:10.780 --> 01:47:14.740
 a PD or a special sign district, it looks for is there something superior than what

01:47:14.740 --> 01:47:16.480
 our code would have offered.

01:47:16.480 --> 01:47:23.180
 So in this case, again, they are imposing limits on themselves in that they cannot deviate

01:47:23.180 --> 01:47:26.660
 from the number of ground signs on the size of those without going back through this public

01:47:26.660 --> 01:47:28.080
 hearing process.

01:47:28.080 --> 01:47:31.900
 But their sign package also ensures that they have consistency in design throughout the

01:47:31.900 --> 01:47:36.980
 site so that you'll notice the materials used on that monument sign match the buildings

01:47:36.980 --> 01:47:43.300
 and things of that nature to ensure that consistency and uniformity in the look of the site.

01:47:43.300 --> 01:47:47.980
 The sign code also calls for us to confirm that what they're asking for is necessary.

01:47:47.980 --> 01:47:52.980
 It's not just for a financial benefit and then it doesn't violate the spirit and intent

01:47:52.980 --> 01:47:54.420
 of the sign code.

01:47:54.420 --> 01:47:59.980
 Again, this is just primarily driven by the need to improve visibility for that pole sign

01:47:59.980 --> 01:48:04.860
 as the major driving factor that led them down this path because as you can see here,

01:48:04.860 --> 01:48:08.940
 the line of sight for someone at the point about a half mile from the exit for vintage

01:48:08.940 --> 01:48:13.700
 where you would want to be getting over and knowing what business you're going to, this

01:48:13.700 --> 01:48:17.300
 sign and this corner are actually blocked from view by the multifamily that's been developed

01:48:17.300 --> 01:48:20.620
 given the elevation of the roadway compared to this site as well as the height of those

01:48:20.620 --> 01:48:21.860
 new buildings.

01:48:21.860 --> 01:48:27.140
 So that again is the need for the ask for the larger sign.

01:48:27.140 --> 01:48:30.340
 And then there's a number of factors in the sign code in terms of the scale, color and

01:48:30.340 --> 01:48:31.340
 design of the signs.

01:48:31.340 --> 01:48:37.020
 Again, they are complying with those and creating that thematic elements to the site while still

01:48:37.020 --> 01:48:42.740
 allowing for multiple tenants and brands to be advertised.

01:48:42.740 --> 01:48:46.580
 We also analyzed all of the criteria in the Denton Development Code for general applications

01:48:46.580 --> 01:48:48.480
 and plan development amendments.

01:48:48.480 --> 01:48:51.540
 We found that it complies with those as well.

01:48:51.540 --> 01:48:55.540
 What they're seeking is appropriate for the site given the context on the highway intersection

01:48:55.540 --> 01:48:57.580
 with the major arterial roadway.

01:48:57.580 --> 01:49:03.300
 Their sign package would allow for consistency with the already approved site plan for the

01:49:03.300 --> 01:49:08.020
 site in terms of the types of businesses and how people would navigate through the site.

01:49:08.020 --> 01:49:12.140
 And they are imposing those additional restrictions to ensure that there is a superior layout

01:49:12.140 --> 01:49:15.980
 to what we could achieve for the site otherwise because they are imposing those limitations

01:49:15.980 --> 01:49:19.700
 on the number of ground signs.

01:49:19.700 --> 01:49:21.940
 Public outreach was conducted for this case.

01:49:21.940 --> 01:49:26.900
 We have not received any responses in favor or opposition to date.

01:49:26.900 --> 01:49:30.900
 And staff is recommending approval as we found it complied with all criteria in the sign

01:49:30.900 --> 01:49:32.580
 code and the DDC.

01:49:32.580 --> 01:49:36.460
 The next step for this case would be a public hearing at City Council on July 15th.

01:49:36.460 --> 01:49:38.100
 And I'm happy to answer any questions.

01:49:38.100 --> 01:49:39.460
 Thank you, Haley.

01:49:39.460 --> 01:49:42.260
 I will open the public hearing at this time.

01:49:42.260 --> 01:49:49.500
 Are there any factual questions from the commission before we hear?

01:49:49.500 --> 01:49:50.500
 Okay.

01:49:50.500 --> 01:49:53.520
 Thank you, Haley.

01:49:53.520 --> 01:49:54.660
 This is a public hearing.

01:49:54.660 --> 01:50:00.120
 So I don't have any cards already filled out requesting to speak, but you are welcome to

01:50:00.120 --> 01:50:04.520
 come down and state your name and address and share your thoughts on this item if anyone

01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:10.860
 has any.

01:50:10.860 --> 01:50:13.180
 Not seeing any movement.

01:50:13.180 --> 01:50:16.800
 I will close the public hearing.

01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:25.340
 Open the floor for discussion or questions from the commission.

01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:27.860
 I guess, Haley, I have one.

01:50:27.860 --> 01:50:34.940
 Just wanted to hear from the public first if there was anybody.

01:50:34.940 --> 01:50:40.460
 I completely understand the need for it given the current topology and the setback from

01:50:40.460 --> 01:50:45.260
 where the access road will be in the future.

01:50:45.260 --> 01:50:52.260
 What I'm wondering is it seems a little bit like -- am I correct to think this is about

01:50:52.260 --> 01:51:01.460
 the scale of like the travel stop at 77 and 35 up north of town?

01:51:01.460 --> 01:51:03.860
 It's more of a travel center height sign?

01:51:03.860 --> 01:51:06.260
 Yes, I believe so.

01:51:06.260 --> 01:51:07.260
 Okay.

01:51:07.260 --> 01:51:17.340
 You know, this area is going to see a lot of change over the next 20 years, and it may

01:51:17.340 --> 01:51:25.580
 look strange if this is codified so tightly that as things fill in and redevelop, they

01:51:25.580 --> 01:51:31.260
 don't have the flexibility to modify and lower the sign and make it fit a little bit better

01:51:31.260 --> 01:51:35.420
 once the access road is complete and they have better visibility, if that makes sense

01:51:35.420 --> 01:51:37.580
 from a directional perspective.

01:51:37.580 --> 01:51:49.100
 So I guess my question after all that is do the conditions placed on the PD prevent them

01:51:49.100 --> 01:51:53.420
 from rebuilding a sign that is less tall, for instance, in the future?

01:51:53.420 --> 01:51:59.260
 No, it's just establishing that maximum so they couldn't exceed 60 feet in the future.

01:51:59.260 --> 01:52:00.260
 Okay.

01:52:00.260 --> 01:52:01.260
 Okay.

01:52:01.260 --> 01:52:02.260
 Thank you.

01:52:02.260 --> 01:52:05.580
 Any other questions on the commission?

01:52:05.580 --> 01:52:14.900
 Seeing none, I open the floor for a motion, if anyone.

01:52:14.900 --> 01:52:16.060
 Commissioner Riggs?

01:52:16.060 --> 01:52:18.540
 Make a motion to approve.

01:52:18.540 --> 01:52:19.540
 And Commissioner Padron?

01:52:19.540 --> 01:52:22.540
 I second.

01:52:22.540 --> 01:52:23.540
 Okay.

01:52:23.540 --> 01:52:35.180
 Seeing no questions, I'll call for a vote on the board.

01:52:35.180 --> 01:52:37.900
 And that item passes 5-0-1.

01:52:37.900 --> 01:52:46.660
 Haley, if you could get Commissioner McDade again, I'd appreciate it.

01:52:46.660 --> 01:53:01.420
 That brings us to our second public hearing of the night, which is item 5B, S25-0002.

01:53:01.420 --> 01:53:02.420
 Welcome, Sean.

01:53:02.420 --> 01:53:03.420
 Good evening, Chair.

01:53:03.420 --> 01:53:06.420
 Members of the commission.

01:53:06.420 --> 01:53:24.620
 Let's give Commissioner McDade a minute or two to get back in here.

01:53:24.620 --> 01:53:42.500
 And I'll go ahead and open the public hearing for this item 5B at this time.

01:53:42.500 --> 01:53:43.500
 Thank you, sir.

01:53:43.500 --> 01:53:45.260
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

01:53:45.260 --> 01:53:54.220
 Sean Jacobson, Associate Planner, here to present S25-0002, the Palladium Denton West

01:53:54.220 --> 01:53:55.500
 Development.

01:53:55.500 --> 01:54:00.300
 This is a request for a specific use permit to allow a multifamily use on approximately

01:54:00.300 --> 01:54:04.940
 4 acres of land, generally on the east side of Fall Meadows Street.

01:54:04.940 --> 01:54:10.340
 The current zoning is R7, which does allow a multifamily with a specific use permit.

01:54:10.340 --> 01:54:16.340
 A current land use is moderate density residential, and so what you all will be determining tonight

01:54:16.340 --> 01:54:21.660
 is whether this proposal meets the criteria for approval for a specific use permit in

01:54:21.660 --> 01:54:25.980
 the moderate density designation.

01:54:25.980 --> 01:54:32.180
 So as you can see the proposed site plan, this proposal would include 120 residences,

01:54:32.180 --> 01:54:37.060
 and it would be able to go up to three stories, so a height of approximately 47 feet.

01:54:37.060 --> 01:54:41.980
 Now as we discussed in the work session, we do have our Chapter 212 provisions, which

01:54:41.980 --> 01:54:48.940
 allow a multifamily development that is providing affordable housing at the sufficient rate

01:54:48.940 --> 01:54:54.020
 to take advantage of flexibility on certain items on their site plan.

01:54:54.020 --> 01:54:55.340
 This is one of those items.

01:54:55.340 --> 01:55:00.700
 So rather than being held to the 40 foot height limit, normally in R7, they will be going

01:55:00.700 --> 01:55:06.700
 up to the 47 foot height, because that is one of the incentives that is allowed based

01:55:06.700 --> 01:55:10.580
 on the affordability they're providing if they're approved.

01:55:10.580 --> 01:55:16.340
 The site is proposing to have 169 parking spaces, and I do want to point out the applicant

01:55:16.340 --> 01:55:20.740
 is specifically limiting themselves to only one row of parking in front, rather than two

01:55:20.740 --> 01:55:22.580
 to be more compatible with the neighborhood.

01:55:22.580 --> 01:55:25.860
 We had that discussion, and they were open to that.

01:55:25.860 --> 01:55:30.380
 One of the things that allows them to work on the site is that the second incentive they're

01:55:30.380 --> 01:55:36.300
 taking advantage of is a reduction in parking to a rate of one vehicle space per unit for

01:55:36.300 --> 01:55:42.820
 those affordable housing, and then they are providing two vehicle spaces per unit for

01:55:42.820 --> 01:55:46.220
 the remaining market rate housing units.

01:55:46.220 --> 01:55:49.620
 So again, that's one of the incentives that allows it and it helps to allow the site to

01:55:49.620 --> 01:55:55.980
 work and to provide less parking in that front side to be more compatible with the neighborhood.

01:55:55.980 --> 01:56:00.340
 They're providing more open space than are required 8% minimum.

01:56:00.340 --> 01:56:05.860
 They do have those two full access drives, and they are constructing a 10 foot wide sidewalk

01:56:05.860 --> 01:56:07.660
 along their frontage.

01:56:07.660 --> 01:56:10.460
 And as you can see, I've highlighted those incentives that they're taking advantage of

01:56:10.460 --> 01:56:11.460
 there.

01:56:11.460 --> 01:56:17.020
 That's the next one in the landscape area.

01:56:17.020 --> 01:56:21.380
 Now it's also important with a specific use permit, we have these because a use is allowed,

01:56:21.380 --> 01:56:23.820
 but we're looking at does it fit where it's proposed.

01:56:23.820 --> 01:56:30.060
 And so the applicant has included a number of elements to help mitigate potential concerns,

01:56:30.060 --> 01:56:33.800
 aesthetic issues, and better fit with the neighborhood.

01:56:33.800 --> 01:56:37.340
 One of those is the context sensitive 70 foot setback.

01:56:37.340 --> 01:56:43.140
 So this building being very tall is set back farther from the street than many buildings

01:56:43.140 --> 01:56:47.100
 in the area in order to avoid it being visually imposing on the street.

01:56:47.100 --> 01:56:51.860
 However, it's also not set back so far that it's going to look like it's on an island.

01:56:51.860 --> 01:56:55.680
 That was a discussion we had and the developer agreed that bringing it forward would make

01:56:55.680 --> 01:56:59.500
 sense to better align with the setbacks along the street to the south.

01:56:59.500 --> 01:57:04.940
 As you can see on the side of the screen there, I've identified the sidewalk connections.

01:57:04.940 --> 01:57:09.580
 So the developer is providing more sidewalk connections than are specifically required

01:57:09.580 --> 01:57:13.900
 because that better fits with the pattern of sidewalk connections along the entire street,

01:57:13.900 --> 01:57:16.100
 better fits with the neighborhood.

01:57:16.100 --> 01:57:17.540
 And lastly, the building design.

01:57:17.540 --> 01:57:22.980
 So while this is a tall building, it does not have a flat roof and it is designed to

01:57:22.980 --> 01:57:28.420
 be broken up with architectural elements to give that visual appearance of a series of

01:57:28.420 --> 01:57:29.780
 smaller buildings.

01:57:29.780 --> 01:57:33.860
 So again, number of elements to help better fit with the neighborhood, mitigate potential

01:57:33.860 --> 01:57:36.460
 aesthetic concerns.

01:57:36.460 --> 01:57:38.060
 Moving on to the landscape plan.

01:57:38.060 --> 01:57:42.660
 This does meet and slightly exceed our minimum landscape and tree canopy standards.

01:57:42.660 --> 01:57:45.660
 We have those street trees along the frontage there.

01:57:45.660 --> 01:57:52.060
 We'll note you'll see the areas outlined in yellow, maybe a little hard to see, but this

01:57:52.060 --> 01:57:57.700
 site has a number of easements on it that made site design somewhat more challenging.

01:57:57.700 --> 01:58:02.780
 Because of that, the applicant is taking advantage of two types of flexibility in their landscape

01:58:02.780 --> 01:58:04.180
 design.

01:58:04.180 --> 01:58:08.460
 One of those is our third affordability incentive, which allowed them to reduce their parking

01:58:08.460 --> 01:58:12.940
 landscape from two five-point elements to one five-point element.

01:58:12.940 --> 01:58:18.980
 So they're going to have somewhat fewer parking end caps than will normally be required.

01:58:18.980 --> 01:58:23.380
 The other flexibility they're taking advantage of is our alternative landscape plan, where

01:58:23.380 --> 01:58:29.180
 you're allowed to relocate or propose some different designs than are normally required

01:58:29.180 --> 01:58:33.940
 because of constraints on the site, but you do have to go above and beyond as part of

01:58:33.940 --> 01:58:35.060
 that alternative.

01:58:35.060 --> 01:58:39.260
 So in this case, they had a limited amount of space along their right of way to fit in

01:58:39.260 --> 01:58:41.660
 all of the screening that was required.

01:58:41.660 --> 01:58:45.980
 Adding more trees in there, given the space, would have been unhealthy for the street trees

01:58:45.980 --> 01:58:47.820
 that were already required.

01:58:47.820 --> 01:58:51.940
 So instead, as a second right of way screening element, along with the evergreen shrubbery

01:58:51.940 --> 01:58:56.140
 that will be provided, they're also providing a series of taller shrubs that will grow more

01:58:56.140 --> 01:59:00.340
 towards the height of an ornamental tree, provide that additional screening, that aesthetic

01:59:00.340 --> 01:59:05.620
 appearance, while still allowing space for everything to grow and thrive.

01:59:05.620 --> 01:59:09.980
 In line with going above and beyond, they have also agreed to make all of the landscaping

01:59:09.980 --> 01:59:12.140
 along that right of way frontage non-turf.

01:59:12.140 --> 01:59:16.020
 So it's not just going to be yard, it's going to be decorative shrubs and grasses.

01:59:16.020 --> 01:59:20.860
 I also do want to point out that we're getting some of those end caps that are not required,

01:59:20.860 --> 01:59:22.780
 but they're being provided anyway.

01:59:22.780 --> 01:59:27.580
 In the area outlined in the light green, along directly in front of the building, that is

01:59:27.580 --> 01:59:31.180
 being provided as decorative shrubbery and grasses, although not required.

01:59:31.180 --> 01:59:35.180
 So again, fitting better with the neighborhood where you'd expect to see landscaping along

01:59:35.180 --> 01:59:39.700
 the front of your building.

01:59:39.700 --> 01:59:43.740
 As always, we look at our approval criteria for an SUP.

01:59:43.740 --> 01:59:48.020
 This proposal is consistent with the goals and policies of the Denton 2040 Comprehensive

01:59:48.020 --> 01:59:53.740
 Plan, with our future land use map, so the overall moderate density residential area.

01:59:53.740 --> 01:59:56.900
 That area will continue to be in line with the recommended density, even with the addition

01:59:56.900 --> 01:59:57.900
 of this housing.

01:59:57.900 --> 02:00:02.620
 It also calls for us to look at other applicable plans, and this is where I do want to mention

02:00:02.620 --> 02:00:06.260
 something we don't always talk about, but the City of Denton did an affordable housing

02:00:06.260 --> 02:00:08.040
 needs analysis.

02:00:08.040 --> 02:00:12.100
 What that identified was there are certain areas where we want to target incentives to

02:00:12.100 --> 02:00:17.140
 encourage affordable housing, because those areas are more stable, more desirable.

02:00:17.140 --> 02:00:21.540
 You see more investment in that area, and it's harder to get affordable housing.

02:00:21.540 --> 02:00:23.080
 This is one of those areas.

02:00:23.080 --> 02:00:26.540
 So the one time when we can think a little bit more about the affordability element in

02:00:26.540 --> 02:00:30.260
 making our decision is that this is something that's encouraged.

02:00:30.260 --> 02:00:35.700
 Our Comprehensive Plan in SUP Chapter 7 encourages us to avoid clustering affordable housing

02:00:35.700 --> 02:00:37.060
 just in certain areas.

02:00:37.060 --> 02:00:40.700
 We don't want to have a socioeconomic segregation, as it says.

02:00:40.700 --> 02:00:44.900
 This allows us to open up affordable housing in an area where it might not otherwise be

02:00:44.900 --> 02:00:48.100
 available normally.

02:00:48.100 --> 02:00:55.100
 However I do also want to point out that this is not out of step with what is surrounding

02:00:55.100 --> 02:00:56.100
 it in development.

02:00:56.100 --> 02:01:03.580
 This area is entirely either multifamily, higher density duplexes, quadplexes for multiple

02:01:03.580 --> 02:01:07.860
 blocks in every direction, except to the north, which is a drainage area.

02:01:07.860 --> 02:01:12.260
 So it is not inconsistent with the current development pattern to have another multifamily

02:01:12.260 --> 02:01:13.860
 development.

02:01:13.860 --> 02:01:17.580
 I wanted to identify the improved walkability, which is something that our Comprehensive

02:01:17.580 --> 02:01:19.020
 Plan encourages.

02:01:19.020 --> 02:01:24.580
 So because of the robust sidewalk network already existing, residents here would be

02:01:24.580 --> 02:01:29.820
 able to within a 10-minute walk reach Evers Park Elementary School and Evers Park and

02:01:29.820 --> 02:01:33.180
 within a 20-minute walk reach our North Branch Library.

02:01:33.180 --> 02:01:38.380
 So some improvements in walkability just by putting these residents in a place where they

02:01:38.380 --> 02:01:41.620
 can connect to that existing infrastructure.

02:01:41.620 --> 02:01:45.420
 The specific use permit is not expected to generate significant adverse impacts, and

02:01:45.420 --> 02:01:49.660
 utilities and infrastructure are available to serve the subject property.

02:01:49.660 --> 02:01:54.500
 We did do our standard outreach, and we did receive one letter in response on behalf of

02:01:54.500 --> 02:01:59.460
 nine properties, four of which were within the 200-foot limit in objection.

02:01:59.460 --> 02:02:01.740
 The applicant did hold two neighborhood meetings.

02:02:01.740 --> 02:02:04.300
 I was able to attend the second one.

02:02:04.300 --> 02:02:06.420
 There was no significant opposition expressed.

02:02:06.420 --> 02:02:11.860
 There were questions about the process and the levels of affordability.

02:02:11.860 --> 02:02:16.460
 So with that, staff is recommending approval of the SUP with the conditions presented in

02:02:16.460 --> 02:02:20.100
 your backup, and I will happily stand for any questions.

02:02:20.100 --> 02:02:21.100
 Thank you, Sean.

02:02:21.100 --> 02:02:25.780
 Sorry to interrupt the flow, but we're going to take a brief recess before we come back

02:02:25.780 --> 02:02:36.780
 for Commissioner questions, so just three or four minutes at 7.15 p.m.

02:02:36.780 --> 02:02:37.780
 Good evening.

02:02:37.780 --> 02:02:45.180
 At 7.22 p.m. we will reconvene after recess on the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.

02:02:45.180 --> 02:02:54.180
 We just got the overview from Sean Jacobson, thank you, of this project.

02:02:54.180 --> 02:03:01.940
 Are there any questions of the Commission for Staff?

02:03:01.940 --> 02:03:05.940
 Commissioner Briggs?

02:03:05.940 --> 02:03:06.940
 So I do have a question.

02:03:06.940 --> 02:03:13.700
 I noticed that as part of this approval, there's talk of encroachment into the drainage easement.

02:03:13.700 --> 02:03:16.900
 Can you kind of talk about that a little bit?

02:03:16.900 --> 02:03:18.780
 Yeah, absolutely.

02:03:18.780 --> 02:03:25.780
 So there is a pre-existing, a fairly large, and I'll go back to this, drainage pipe running

02:03:25.780 --> 02:03:32.020
 along the east and south sides of the properties, fairly large pipe.

02:03:32.020 --> 02:03:36.580
 Because of that, we did want to make sure that we have that within an easement.

02:03:36.580 --> 02:03:43.380
 The concern was that normally our easements would not allow parking spaces over those.

02:03:43.380 --> 02:03:48.740
 In this case, we were able to have the discussion with the drainage department, with those involved,

02:03:48.740 --> 02:03:52.740
 and they were comfortable with the fact that as long as the language was written, so that

02:03:52.740 --> 02:03:56.380
 if they need to go in work, they can go in and do whatever work they need to do, and

02:03:56.380 --> 02:03:59.540
 they are not responsible to put anything back or pay for that.

02:03:59.540 --> 02:04:01.660
 That is responsibility of the developer.

02:04:01.660 --> 02:04:05.700
 They were comfortable with allowing that encroachment, which then did allow, it would have been a

02:04:05.700 --> 02:04:10.380
 significant loss of parking and landscaping if nothing had been allowed to be in that

02:04:10.380 --> 02:04:11.380
 area.

02:04:11.380 --> 02:04:12.380
 Okay.

02:04:12.380 --> 02:04:17.820
 So, and I noticed the note on the plat, too, so that's good, but I just wanted to verify

02:04:17.820 --> 02:04:21.260
 that the city wouldn't be on the hook for repaving the parking lot or something.

02:04:21.260 --> 02:04:25.820
 Absolutely, and in fact, they will have to come back and complete an encroachment agreement,

02:04:25.820 --> 02:04:28.020
 so that will be very much buttoned up.

02:04:28.020 --> 02:04:29.020
 Okay.

02:04:29.020 --> 02:04:30.020
 Commissioner Pedro.

02:04:30.020 --> 02:04:31.020
 Thank you.

02:04:31.020 --> 02:04:47.780
 Sean, you mentioned that there was some residential comment based on the project and there's

02:04:47.780 --> 02:04:50.980
 a little bit of opposition with it, or?

02:04:50.980 --> 02:04:55.100
 As far as I'm not aware of any actual opposition, there were some questions about what the level

02:04:55.100 --> 02:05:02.340
 of affordability was, about the process involved, about incentives, but I don't recall any opposition

02:05:02.340 --> 02:05:06.100
 in the meeting that I was in being expressed at the project.

02:05:06.100 --> 02:05:09.660
 Could we possibly like explore that a little bit more as far as what the affordability would

02:05:09.660 --> 02:05:13.300
 mean in this instance, like how is that being defined?

02:05:13.300 --> 02:05:14.300
 Absolutely.

02:05:14.300 --> 02:05:17.140
 Yeah, let me just, I have a slide for that.

02:05:17.140 --> 02:05:20.860
 So as you can see here on that first column there, percentage, well, second column, percentage

02:05:20.860 --> 02:05:22.860
 of units affordable.

02:05:22.860 --> 02:05:33.780
 So 7.5% of the 120 units will be at the extremely low income affordability level, 27.5% at the

02:05:33.780 --> 02:05:39.700
 very low affordability level, and 32.5% at the low income moderate level.

02:05:39.700 --> 02:05:48.300
 So overall, that will be 67.5% or 81 of the 120 units will be affordable at either, at

02:05:48.300 --> 02:05:51.340
 one of those three levels.

02:05:51.340 --> 02:06:01.180
 Okay, I don't see any more questions for staff at this time.

02:06:01.180 --> 02:06:09.660
 At this time, I'll invite the applicant up, Maxwell Fisher, I believe, if you'd like to

02:06:09.660 --> 02:06:10.660
 come up.

02:06:40.500 --> 02:06:46.180
 Chair, commissioners, my name is Maxwell Fisher with Zonedev 2502 Grandview Drive, Richardson,

02:06:46.180 --> 02:06:50.620
 Texas, 75080 representing Palladium USA Development.

02:06:50.620 --> 02:06:55.900
 We just have two representatives from Palladium here to answer any questions that I can't

02:06:55.900 --> 02:06:56.900
 answer.

02:06:56.900 --> 02:07:01.260
 A little bit about Palladium, Palladium is an international development company, however,

02:07:01.260 --> 02:07:03.940
 their U.S. headquarters is in Dallas.

02:07:03.940 --> 02:07:08.300
 So you get the quality of international developer, but you get the advantage of having a local

02:07:08.300 --> 02:07:10.840
 developer in terms of management.

02:07:10.840 --> 02:07:15.060
 So not only does Palladium develop properties, but they're also a long-term manager.

02:07:15.060 --> 02:07:17.860
 They have in-house management.

02:07:17.860 --> 02:07:23.220
 Most multi-family developers usually do that third party for their management.

02:07:23.220 --> 02:07:24.220
 Palladium is in-house.

02:07:24.220 --> 02:07:27.100
 On top of that, they also are long-term owners.

02:07:27.100 --> 02:07:32.180
 The structures of their financial deals is such that they own the properties for decades

02:07:32.180 --> 02:07:33.180
 to come.

02:07:33.180 --> 02:07:37.140
 So what you see, what you get in the beginning is what you'll have for a long period of

02:07:37.140 --> 02:07:38.140
 time.

02:07:38.140 --> 02:07:45.860
 That's the structure of the community versus selling off to another larger holder.

02:07:45.860 --> 02:07:47.900
 Sean did a great job of going over the projects.

02:07:47.900 --> 02:07:51.340
 I won't belabor with a lot of the details, but I will go over some of the things that

02:07:51.340 --> 02:07:57.020
 maybe he didn't mention in detail, but we will have several amenities with this development.

02:07:57.020 --> 02:08:04.820
 We have an interior courtyard that will have a pool, a playground, a gazebo, a grill area.

02:08:04.820 --> 02:08:11.540
 And then we also have a dog park, it will be a true dog park with some agility elements

02:08:11.540 --> 02:08:16.980
 for the dogs and a shaded area there.

02:08:16.980 --> 02:08:24.220
 And then inside we have a playground, fitness center, play room, a club room, and bike parking

02:08:24.220 --> 02:08:25.220
 as well.

02:08:25.220 --> 02:08:26.220
 And I'll show you a few of these pictures.

02:08:26.220 --> 02:08:29.660
 This is from one of their Palladium Redberg development.

02:08:29.660 --> 02:08:32.380
 Their children's room actually has an interactive floor.

02:08:32.380 --> 02:08:37.980
 It lights up when you jump on the floor, so kind of an interesting feature that you don't

02:08:37.980 --> 02:08:41.900
 always see in a multifamily development, there's playground equipment.

02:08:41.900 --> 02:08:46.700
 Here's some of their common amenity spaces on the inside, their business center, fitness

02:08:46.700 --> 02:08:54.580
 center, club room, and the residents are able to use these and reserve these areas when

02:08:54.580 --> 02:08:57.460
 they need to.

02:08:57.460 --> 02:09:02.820
 Here's a large swimming pool they have in their development.

02:09:02.820 --> 02:09:10.460
 Also this is in Dallas, some of the other conference rooms and fitness rooms from some

02:09:10.460 --> 02:09:11.460
 of their developments.

02:09:11.460 --> 02:09:16.340
 Another thing that they do that a lot of multifamily developers do not is they are truly a fixture

02:09:16.340 --> 02:09:17.340
 of the community.

02:09:17.340 --> 02:09:23.940
 They partner with Operation Community Care by providing financial literacy classes, job

02:09:23.940 --> 02:09:29.740
 skills training, resume building, even help with home ownership classes as someone transitions

02:09:29.740 --> 02:09:34.460
 out of their apartment if they want to be a homeowner someday.

02:09:34.460 --> 02:09:39.620
 After school programs, crime watch, there's actually a pantry they have on site, and so

02:09:39.620 --> 02:09:45.620
 if someone is in a pinch, they can come down and grab something off the shelf.

02:09:45.620 --> 02:09:50.940
 This doesn't happen a lot, but once in a while it's a very good feature to have.

02:09:50.940 --> 02:09:51.940
 We reached out to the community.

02:09:51.940 --> 02:09:56.540
 We had two community meetings in January and February at Denton Public Library.

02:09:56.540 --> 02:09:58.940
 A few people attended those meetings.

02:09:58.940 --> 02:10:05.900
 We also went door to door and passed out flyers to property owners within the 200 foot area

02:10:05.900 --> 02:10:12.420
 or in that median area, walked the neighborhood.

02:10:12.420 --> 02:10:14.620
 There was an opposition, I think.

02:10:14.620 --> 02:10:19.980
 We noticed that there was a landlord that owned several of the homes or the duplexes,

02:10:19.980 --> 02:10:24.380
 and so it wasn't really the homeowners or even the renters who were opposed to the request.

02:10:24.380 --> 02:10:30.540
 It was literally someone who owns and manages the development, so a lot of times there may

02:10:30.540 --> 02:10:35.060
 be competition reasons there from a rental standpoint as opposed to really being opposed

02:10:35.060 --> 02:10:36.060
 to the project.

02:10:36.060 --> 02:10:43.540
 We had a lot of support or no objection to this project as we engaged the neighbors.

02:10:43.540 --> 02:10:44.540
 Here's a look at the developments.

02:10:44.540 --> 02:10:45.620
 It's a 3D rendering.

02:10:45.620 --> 02:10:50.940
 Staff showed you how it will look along Fall Meadow, the 10 foot sidewalk, and we're also

02:10:50.940 --> 02:10:55.700
 expanding Fall Meadow as well.

02:10:55.700 --> 02:10:59.940
 Staff had a good recommendation of providing a massing study that shows how the three-story

02:10:59.940 --> 02:11:05.060
 building will look amid the two-story building and one and two-story duplexes on the west

02:11:05.060 --> 02:11:06.060
 side.

02:11:06.060 --> 02:11:12.820
 Thought it sits really well on the property and on the street.

02:11:12.820 --> 02:11:19.140
 I'll summarize, Polanium does deliver best-in-class communities, several communities in DFW, both

02:11:19.140 --> 02:11:20.140
 market-rate and affordable.

02:11:20.140 --> 02:11:25.060
 They're a long-term owner and will be a community member in Denton as opposed to just being

02:11:25.060 --> 02:11:27.540
 a merchant builder.

02:11:27.540 --> 02:11:31.480
 Multifamily is compatible with the zoning and the multifamily and duplex medium densities

02:11:31.480 --> 02:11:32.480
 around us.

02:11:32.480 --> 02:11:35.420
 It's a well-designed neighborhood and pedestrian friendly.

02:11:35.420 --> 02:11:40.060
 Staff had some good recommendations on connecting our pedestrians to the 10 foot sidewalk on

02:11:40.060 --> 02:11:41.060
 the street as well.

02:11:41.060 --> 02:11:45.940
 So this will provide much needed workforce housing in Denton.

02:11:45.940 --> 02:11:50.820
 We'd ask you to follow staff's recommendation and also council's resolution of support

02:11:50.820 --> 02:11:58.300
 that was approved on February 2025 and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

02:11:58.300 --> 02:11:59.300
 Thank you.

02:11:59.300 --> 02:12:02.700
 Any questions from the commission?

02:12:02.700 --> 02:12:03.700
 Commissioner MacDuff?

02:12:03.700 --> 02:12:09.780
 Just to comment, I'm pleased that this is closer to downtown Denton than the heart of

02:12:09.780 --> 02:12:16.180
 the city.

02:12:16.180 --> 02:12:18.320
 Commissioner Pedrone?

02:12:18.320 --> 02:12:23.180
 How often are the literacy classes provided?

02:12:23.180 --> 02:12:25.700
 I could ask Kim Parker to address that.

02:12:25.700 --> 02:12:32.300
 I know it's not, I don't think it's very often, but it's sort of as needed and they partner

02:12:32.300 --> 02:12:38.900
 with, I don't want to speak to that exactly, but thank you, Kim.

02:12:38.900 --> 02:12:41.900
 Hi, Kim Parker with Palladium.

02:12:41.900 --> 02:12:48.340
 We use Regions Bank, who's one of our lenders, who offers free financial literacy classes

02:12:48.340 --> 02:12:50.900
 to our residents.

02:12:50.900 --> 02:12:57.180
 We have classes scheduled every month for different topics, so we may have a meeting

02:12:57.180 --> 02:13:05.540
 on how to repair your credit or how to save for a home or how to budget, basic budgeting

02:13:05.540 --> 02:13:10.260
 expenses, at least once a month at every property.

02:13:10.260 --> 02:13:11.260
 That's awesome.

02:13:11.260 --> 02:13:15.700
 What's the normal or average turnout for the classes?

02:13:15.700 --> 02:13:22.140
 We'll get anywhere from, let's say, five to maybe 12 people that will show up.

02:13:22.140 --> 02:13:23.420
 It's all in how we market it.

02:13:23.420 --> 02:13:28.580
 First of all, we have to make sure that people know about it, but we're really thrilled that

02:13:28.580 --> 02:13:34.020
 we can lean upon one of our financial partners to do this for our residents so they're not

02:13:34.020 --> 02:13:39.140
 just lending money for the development, they're also enhancing the lives of our residents,

02:13:39.140 --> 02:13:40.140
 which is really important.

02:13:40.140 --> 02:13:41.140
 Awesome.

02:13:41.140 --> 02:13:42.140
 Thank you.

02:13:42.140 --> 02:13:43.140
 Thank you.

02:13:43.140 --> 02:13:44.140
 Commissioner Dyer?

02:13:44.140 --> 02:13:52.780
 You showed some pictures of a kids' space, a room for kids, and exercise room and all

02:13:52.780 --> 02:13:53.780
 that.

02:13:53.780 --> 02:13:55.340
 Where is that located on the site plan?

02:13:55.340 --> 02:13:58.020
 It's actually in the building.

02:13:58.020 --> 02:13:59.980
 The interior spaces are in the building.

02:13:59.980 --> 02:14:05.220
 They'll be located on the western section of the building in the middle.

02:14:05.220 --> 02:14:06.900
 You see the main entrance.

02:14:06.900 --> 02:14:07.900
 The double doors there?

02:14:07.900 --> 02:14:13.580
 Yeah, where the ADA spaces are, and then head east into the main building there in that

02:14:13.580 --> 02:14:14.580
 area.

02:14:14.580 --> 02:14:15.580
 Okay.

02:14:15.580 --> 02:14:16.580
 Thank you.

02:14:16.580 --> 02:14:21.020
 I do have a question.

02:14:21.020 --> 02:14:23.740
 You mentioned that there was a council resolution of support.

02:14:23.740 --> 02:14:30.660
 Is this a tax credit financed project with a non-profit partner, or is this a for-profit

02:14:30.660 --> 02:14:34.220
 that's still on the tax rolls once it gets ...

02:14:34.220 --> 02:14:36.460
 It is a tax credit deal.

02:14:36.460 --> 02:14:37.460
 Okay.

02:14:37.460 --> 02:14:40.780
 I don't know if it's ... Yeah, answer that Mark.

02:14:40.780 --> 02:14:42.300
 It's a for-profit development.

02:14:42.300 --> 02:14:48.340
 We will be paying full property taxes, but it will be financing the development with

02:14:48.340 --> 02:14:50.140
 9% housing tax credits.

02:14:50.140 --> 02:14:51.140
 Okay.

02:14:51.140 --> 02:14:52.140
 Thank you.

02:14:52.140 --> 02:14:56.860
 Any other questions for the applicant at this time?

02:14:56.860 --> 02:14:58.500
 Can I piggyback on to your question?

02:14:58.500 --> 02:14:59.500
 Yes, please do.

02:14:59.500 --> 02:15:04.740
 Was that a unanimous vote by the city council?

02:15:04.740 --> 02:15:10.500
 Yeah.

02:15:10.500 --> 02:15:11.500
 I don't recall.

02:15:11.500 --> 02:15:14.580
 I think that vote was at least a year ago.

02:15:14.580 --> 02:15:16.580
 Does staff have record of that?

02:15:16.580 --> 02:15:20.900
 I do not, but I would encourage you to focus on the merits of the land use request that's

02:15:20.900 --> 02:15:21.900
 this evening.

02:15:21.900 --> 02:15:22.900
 Okay.

02:15:22.900 --> 02:15:23.900
 Okay.

02:15:23.900 --> 02:15:27.260
 This is a public hearing.

02:15:27.260 --> 02:15:33.060
 I will reopen the public hearing since we were at recess.

02:15:33.060 --> 02:15:38.820
 I do have one card, so I will invite that person up to speak at this time.

02:15:38.820 --> 02:15:43.940
 That is Prudence Sanchez, I believe.

02:15:43.940 --> 02:15:47.780
 Please come forward and state your name and address, and you'll have four minutes.

02:15:47.780 --> 02:15:48.780
 Yes.

02:15:48.780 --> 02:15:49.780
 My name is Prudence Sanchez.

02:15:49.780 --> 02:15:52.940
 I live at 711 Jackson Street here in Den.

02:15:52.940 --> 02:16:00.900
 I own property on Fall Meadow and Garden View, so I take objection to Mr. Maxwell's portrayal

02:16:00.900 --> 02:16:04.300
 of the battle landlord not wanting competition.

02:16:04.300 --> 02:16:06.300
 I'm familiar with that area.

02:16:06.300 --> 02:16:11.940
 I am not opposed to development of that space that they would like to develop.

02:16:11.940 --> 02:16:20.080
 I believe that 120 units is far too many for the congestion that's already there for the

02:16:20.080 --> 02:16:25.860
 little narrow streets that are already there, that people are already parking alongside

02:16:25.860 --> 02:16:30.700
 for the children that are walking on the little narrow sidewalks.

02:16:30.700 --> 02:16:37.060
 I believe it's going to cause drainage problems because it's going to take away a lot of the

02:16:37.060 --> 02:16:43.340
 green space that allows the water to go into the ground and into the drainage ditch that's

02:16:43.340 --> 02:16:45.300
 along that property.

02:16:45.300 --> 02:16:47.140
 I'm concerned about traffic.

02:16:47.140 --> 02:16:53.980
 I'm concerned about being able to come in and out, especially evacuation, if needed.

02:16:53.980 --> 02:16:58.540
 I am a landowner, I'm a property manager.

02:16:58.540 --> 02:17:04.260
 I support a landowner being able to use their property to the best use.

02:17:04.260 --> 02:17:08.500
 I, however, feel like 120 units are way too much.

02:17:08.500 --> 02:17:15.620
 They are correct when they say that there are lots of multi-family there already.

02:17:15.620 --> 02:17:16.620
 That's true.

02:17:16.620 --> 02:17:24.220
 Kingswood Apartments, Den North Apartments, and my concern is we're going to start looking

02:17:24.220 --> 02:17:32.820
 like cement city really close to UNT, so I just hope that this development doesn't cause

02:17:32.820 --> 02:17:33.820
 a lot of problems.

02:17:33.820 --> 02:17:36.580
 I hope the children stay safe in the neighborhood.

02:17:36.580 --> 02:17:41.300
 That's been an area that has been known in the past for high crime because of the amount

02:17:41.300 --> 02:17:43.020
 of units that are there.

02:17:43.020 --> 02:17:48.380
 I believe in the last few years it's gotten better, and those are just the concerns that

02:17:48.380 --> 02:17:49.380
 I have.

02:17:49.380 --> 02:17:51.380
 I'm not afraid of competition.

02:17:51.380 --> 02:17:56.860
 I'm not afraid of a person using their land, so I do take issue with that statement.

02:17:56.860 --> 02:18:01.780
 That's not what us landlords and property owners are concerned about.

02:18:01.780 --> 02:18:05.820
 Thank you.

02:18:05.820 --> 02:18:08.820
 Commissioner Patron?

02:18:08.820 --> 02:18:12.260
 Was there a traffic impact study?

02:18:12.260 --> 02:18:14.700
 Just to kind of touch upon the comments.

02:18:14.700 --> 02:18:17.100
 Chair, may I address a few of the questions?

02:18:17.100 --> 02:18:22.140
 I have some slides that will help address those as well.

02:18:22.140 --> 02:18:23.140
 Sure.

02:18:23.140 --> 02:18:26.220
 Yeah, here's our traffic impact analysis.

02:18:26.220 --> 02:18:37.300
 We did a full analysis, and we'll have approximately 850 trips per day, usually under the threshold

02:18:37.300 --> 02:18:38.740
 of even requiring a TIA.

02:18:38.740 --> 02:18:45.700
 It's usually around 1,000, and we'll have no more than about 45 turns at peak hour,

02:18:45.700 --> 02:18:47.980
 so it's fairly minimal.

02:18:47.980 --> 02:18:52.460
 The transportation department looked at it, and they were fine understanding it's had

02:18:52.460 --> 02:18:58.780
 a dead end, but we have two points of access, and that was appropriate.

02:18:58.780 --> 02:19:06.140
 And then parking, we basically did a parking demand analysis.

02:19:06.140 --> 02:19:14.400
 We took a count of the number of cars at 2 a.m. during the week from a few of our properties,

02:19:14.400 --> 02:19:16.540
 and this shows exactly what we need.

02:19:16.540 --> 02:19:20.500
 Sorry, that's bad coloring there.

02:19:20.500 --> 02:19:21.500
 We'll fix that.

02:19:21.500 --> 02:19:32.420
 Essentially, we need 0.68 cars per bedroom, which would require 155 cars, and we have

02:19:32.420 --> 02:19:39.260
 169 spaces, so we know exactly what we need, and so we won't be, you know, congesting

02:19:39.260 --> 02:19:40.260
 the streets.

02:19:40.260 --> 02:19:45.500
 We'll be parking totally on-site, so hopefully that addresses your question.

02:19:45.500 --> 02:19:50.060
 The landscaping, I mean, staff did an excellent job of helping us navigate the landscaping

02:19:50.060 --> 02:19:51.140
 centers.

02:19:51.140 --> 02:19:53.420
 This is not going to be all paving.

02:19:53.420 --> 02:19:54.420
 It's well-landscaped.

02:19:54.420 --> 02:19:55.420
 It's well-treated.

02:19:55.420 --> 02:20:01.140
 I mean, you all know as well, Denton's landscaping code is not on the wider end.

02:20:01.140 --> 02:20:06.340
 It's more robust than a lot of cities, so we're forced to do that, and we will.

02:20:06.340 --> 02:20:11.220
 We're happy to do it, so we think we're going to be a great addition to the neighborhood.

02:20:11.220 --> 02:20:12.660
 Those apartments there are older.

02:20:12.660 --> 02:20:16.480
 They're more several, a couple generations older.

02:20:16.480 --> 02:20:17.480
 They're actually not that dense.

02:20:17.480 --> 02:20:20.900
 They're only two-story, but they're also totally full, so there's a need for this

02:20:20.900 --> 02:20:28.580
 housing, and we'd like to bring it to the city, so thank you.

02:20:28.580 --> 02:20:30.380
 Any other questions?

02:20:30.380 --> 02:20:31.380
 Commissioner?

02:20:31.380 --> 02:20:37.460
 You talked about the parking, and that there'll be plenty of spaces for the tenants.

02:20:37.460 --> 02:20:39.100
 What about the people that visit them?

02:20:39.100 --> 02:20:40.860
 Where will they be able to park?

02:20:40.860 --> 02:20:46.660
 Yeah, so the important thing is to identify peak demand, and so even though there are

02:20:46.660 --> 02:20:51.300
 not guests in the middle of the night, some of the residents are gone during the day,

02:20:51.300 --> 02:20:56.180
 so true peak hour is at night, and so a lot of the residents are gone maybe when there's

02:20:56.180 --> 02:21:01.780
 some visitors, so we've accounted for, let's say, some of the residents are not there in

02:21:01.780 --> 02:21:04.620
 the afternoon or in the morning when there's a visitor.

02:21:04.620 --> 02:21:11.620
 That compensates and allows that guest parking.

02:21:11.620 --> 02:21:15.980
 I think you mentioned in your presentation that one of those streets, you'll be improving

02:21:15.980 --> 02:21:17.580
 and widening slightly.

02:21:17.580 --> 02:21:20.860
 Will that allow more street parking for the rest of the neighborhood?

02:21:20.860 --> 02:21:26.980
 I'm not aware of street parking, something we're proposing or allowed on that street,

02:21:26.980 --> 02:21:31.500
 but we are widening the street, in addition to the 10-foot sidewalk that we're also going

02:21:31.500 --> 02:21:32.500
 to be building.

02:21:32.500 --> 02:21:43.020
 I'm not sure the parking is ... Yeah, if there's a staff member that can address that.

02:21:43.020 --> 02:21:46.460
 We wouldn't want to congest the street.

02:21:46.460 --> 02:21:56.500
 So parking is allowed on city streets unless it is signed to no parking.

02:21:56.500 --> 02:22:00.040
 This is a public hearing, so if you haven't filled out a card, you're welcome to come

02:22:00.040 --> 02:22:02.700
 down and share your thoughts or questions.

02:22:02.700 --> 02:22:11.540
 If you have any, not seeing any motion, I will close the public hearing and open the

02:22:11.540 --> 02:22:17.860
 floor for discussion or questions of staff as we deliberate.

02:22:17.860 --> 02:22:21.380
 Commissioner Pedron, you're on the board.

02:22:21.380 --> 02:22:26.140
 Are you ... Okay.

02:22:26.140 --> 02:22:27.140
 Seems quiet.

02:22:27.140 --> 02:22:29.900
 I'll offer a couple thoughts to get the ball rolling here.

02:22:29.900 --> 02:22:44.820
 I think that this is a unique area that has access to a couple schools within half a mile

02:22:44.820 --> 02:22:47.420
 and a library and other sorts of things.

02:22:47.420 --> 02:22:56.460
 I'm glad that the street grid here is still somewhat intact so that there is that walkable

02:22:56.460 --> 02:23:00.280
 and bikeable access to those amenities.

02:23:00.280 --> 02:23:04.380
 I guess I do have one question for staff.

02:23:04.380 --> 02:23:08.680
 Could you just give an overview specifically to the public comment that was made about

02:23:08.680 --> 02:23:17.160
 drainage on what our process is for requiring drainage during construction and after construction

02:23:17.160 --> 02:23:23.500
 and what nearby residents should do if they notice something that has gotten worse during

02:23:23.500 --> 02:23:24.500
 that period?

02:23:24.500 --> 02:23:25.500
 Does that make sense?

02:23:25.500 --> 02:23:29.260
 I can definitely speak to the fact that, obviously, this will have to go through civil engineering

02:23:29.260 --> 02:23:35.220
 plan review and studies will have to be submitted showing that this will have no negative impacts

02:23:35.220 --> 02:23:39.260
 so we cannot have flows increased to surrounding properties.

02:23:39.260 --> 02:23:44.380
 We also can't have flows significantly redirected on surrounding properties.

02:23:44.380 --> 02:23:47.420
 That's something that will have to be studied robustly and established.

02:23:47.420 --> 02:23:52.220
 In addition, before you can begin construction, we always have to have a review by our folks

02:23:52.220 --> 02:23:57.100
 and watershed to make sure that erosion control is in place, that we're not going to be creating

02:23:57.100 --> 02:23:59.620
 issues mid project.

02:23:59.620 --> 02:24:03.540
 Certainly if there is a problem, residents are more than welcome to reach out whether

02:24:03.540 --> 02:24:10.020
 that would be 311, whether that would be to the -- we have inspectors for our public works

02:24:10.020 --> 02:24:11.020
 projects.

02:24:11.020 --> 02:24:13.580
 Certainly happy to assist with that if there is a concern.

02:24:13.580 --> 02:24:14.580
 Okay.

02:24:14.580 --> 02:24:15.580
 Thank you.

02:24:15.580 --> 02:24:16.580
 Any other questions?

02:24:16.580 --> 02:24:17.580
 Commissioner -- I'm sorry.

02:24:17.580 --> 02:24:18.580
 I'm heading off.

02:24:18.580 --> 02:24:23.140
 I'm bad with names, too.

02:24:23.140 --> 02:24:24.940
 It's fine.

02:24:24.940 --> 02:24:25.940
 Yes.

02:24:25.940 --> 02:24:31.140
 So I just have a comment and it's not a question, but I do feel like this is a good use of that

02:24:31.140 --> 02:24:44.700
 space and I do think it's something that's needed and meets the zoning, so I'm in support

02:24:44.700 --> 02:24:45.700
 of it.

02:24:45.700 --> 02:24:46.700
 Okay.

02:24:46.700 --> 02:24:47.700
 Okay.

02:24:47.700 --> 02:24:53.660
 I guess your comment about being close into schools made me also think that this is also

02:24:53.660 --> 02:25:01.740
 close to a grocery store and so I appreciate being closer to the -- not right on downtown

02:25:01.740 --> 02:25:02.740
 but closer in.

02:25:02.740 --> 02:25:03.740
 Yeah.

02:25:03.740 --> 02:25:09.180
 Yeah, and I'm just -- I'm thankful for all the creativity that went into this project

02:25:09.180 --> 02:25:17.540
 between staff and the applicant, you know, things that I see when I look at it are okay,

02:25:17.540 --> 02:25:22.380
 maybe people don't like the way a square looks, but with current fire codes that's the only

02:25:22.380 --> 02:25:27.580
 way you get multiple bedroom units, essentially, is to have corners, exterior corners.

02:25:27.580 --> 02:25:36.180
 So I see a lot of reasons why this design coalesced to this, so good job.

02:25:36.180 --> 02:25:43.020
 I'll just remind the commission that if you are having questions or misgivings, you know,

02:25:43.020 --> 02:25:49.740
 it helps our staff to explain those concerns so that we can either find a resolution to

02:25:49.740 --> 02:25:56.780
 them here on the dais or they can take direction for future projects and things, but I'll open

02:25:56.780 --> 02:26:00.900
 the floor for a motion, so there's no other questions.

02:26:00.900 --> 02:26:01.900
 Commissioner Riggs.

02:26:01.900 --> 02:26:04.620
 I make a motion to approve.

02:26:04.620 --> 02:26:06.460
 Commissioner MacDuff.

02:26:06.460 --> 02:26:08.260
 A motion to second.

02:26:08.260 --> 02:26:13.220
 Can I clarify, Commissioner Riggs, there are some staff conditions listed?

02:26:13.220 --> 02:26:15.180
 Absolutely, yes, with staff recommend.

02:26:15.180 --> 02:26:16.180
 Okay.

02:26:16.180 --> 02:26:17.180
 And Commissioner MacDuff, your second still stands.

02:26:17.180 --> 02:26:19.980
 Yes, a motion to approve with staff recommendations.

02:26:19.980 --> 02:26:20.980
 Okay.

02:26:20.980 --> 02:26:23.620
 Thank you.

02:26:23.620 --> 02:26:31.540
 Not seeing any more questions, I'll call for a vote on the board.

02:26:31.540 --> 02:26:33.940
 That item passes 6-0.

02:26:33.940 --> 02:26:41.940
 That brings us to our last public hearing of the night, item 5C, Z25-0007, and I want

02:26:41.940 --> 02:26:47.700
 to thank the members of the public who have been patient tonight with us.

02:26:47.700 --> 02:27:02.820
 Good evening, Julie Wyatt, I'm presenting Z25-0007 to you tonight.

02:27:02.820 --> 02:27:09.500
 So the request before you is to rezone approximately 1.09 acres from Residential 2 District to

02:27:09.500 --> 02:27:12.300
 Mixed Use Neighborhood District.

02:27:12.300 --> 02:27:18.540
 The property is currently developed, it's three tracks, or three lots, two of those

02:27:18.540 --> 02:27:24.020
 lots are developed with a commercial building and a parking area, and then the third lot

02:27:24.020 --> 02:27:26.700
 is not developed.

02:27:26.700 --> 02:27:33.740
 The purpose is to reestablish a previously open retail use on the property, it was established

02:27:33.740 --> 02:27:40.060
 in the early 1970s, that operation ceased in 2023.

02:27:40.060 --> 02:27:47.620
 The property is located in the west part of town on the north side of 380 West University,

02:27:47.620 --> 02:27:50.660
 as shown on your screen.

02:27:50.660 --> 02:27:54.700
 So before I get into the nitty-gritty of the rezoning, I just want to take a brief moment

02:27:54.700 --> 02:27:57.460
 to talk about the history of the property.

02:27:57.460 --> 02:28:01.020
 I won't read the slide, I just want to hit some highlights.

02:28:01.020 --> 02:28:07.060
 As I mentioned, the commercial use opened prior to annexation, so sometime in the early

02:28:07.060 --> 02:28:12.220
 '70s, and then the property was annexed into the city in 1974.

02:28:12.220 --> 02:28:16.760
 The area in red was rezoned in '76.

02:28:16.760 --> 02:28:22.380
 So as we talked about earlier in the work session, when this property was annexed, it

02:28:22.380 --> 02:28:26.300
 annexed with that placeholder zoning of agriculture.

02:28:26.300 --> 02:28:32.020
 It was rezoned in '76 for that general retail to address that nonconformity, because the

02:28:32.020 --> 02:28:34.580
 existing commercial use was there.

02:28:34.580 --> 02:28:41.100
 The area in yellow was zoned with a planned development subsequent to that, for mini storage,

02:28:41.100 --> 02:28:42.980
 but that was never developed.

02:28:42.980 --> 02:28:48.460
 There were a couple of COs that were issued for the property for that commercial use retail

02:28:48.460 --> 02:28:51.020
 restaurant bar.

02:28:51.020 --> 02:28:56.780
 And then in 2002, the city adopted a new development code, the Denton Development Code, and the

02:28:56.780 --> 02:29:02.460
 entire city was rezoned, and at that time, the property was rezoned from general retail

02:29:02.460 --> 02:29:05.740
 to neighborhood residential two.

02:29:05.740 --> 02:29:12.300
 Neighborhood residential two is one of our low-density single-family residential neighborhoods

02:29:12.300 --> 02:29:18.740
 that did not permit the use, but the 2002 Denton Development Code had a special provision

02:29:18.740 --> 02:29:21.280
 called a special exception.

02:29:21.280 --> 02:29:23.340
 That didn't make the use nonconforming.

02:29:23.340 --> 02:29:28.580
 It allowed the use to continue, and that if something happened to the building, if it

02:29:28.580 --> 02:29:32.700
 burned or if they wanted to expand it, they could do that under that special exception

02:29:32.700 --> 02:29:33.700
 provision.

02:29:33.700 --> 02:29:42.060
 In 2019, we updated our Denton Development Code, the zoning then transitioned to R2.

02:29:42.060 --> 02:29:47.100
 The special exception provision was removed from our regulations, and so that thus made

02:29:47.100 --> 02:29:49.660
 the building and that use nonconforming.

02:29:49.660 --> 02:29:53.140
 It was a nonconforming use.

02:29:53.140 --> 02:29:58.380
 It was still open as a retail and restaurant establishment.

02:29:58.380 --> 02:30:04.060
 It continued on until about 2023 is what we can determine, and at that point, that use

02:30:04.060 --> 02:30:05.060
 went away.

02:30:05.060 --> 02:30:10.540
 The building was sold, and so that is where it lands us to today.

02:30:10.540 --> 02:30:16.580
 So sorry for that brief interlude into the history, but I wanted to make sure that we

02:30:16.580 --> 02:30:18.420
 went over that briefly.

02:30:18.420 --> 02:30:27.740
 So now the current request is to rezone the property from that R2 to the mixed use neighborhood

02:30:27.740 --> 02:30:28.740
 MN.

02:30:28.740 --> 02:30:33.940
 Sorry, my label is incorrect on this map.

02:30:33.940 --> 02:30:38.660
 So the map on the left, that is the current zoning.

02:30:38.660 --> 02:30:40.740
 That shows that yellow, that R2.

02:30:40.740 --> 02:30:45.060
 The map on the right has the purple shading on the subject property.

02:30:45.060 --> 02:30:47.780
 It has an incorrect label that should be MN.

02:30:47.780 --> 02:30:49.380
 That is the proposed zoning.

02:30:49.380 --> 02:30:55.180
 R2, as I mentioned earlier, is intended for single-family residential, more suburban type

02:30:55.180 --> 02:30:59.500
 development to protect single-family neighborhoods.

02:30:59.500 --> 02:31:01.540
 MN district is a little different.

02:31:01.540 --> 02:31:06.500
 It's intended to provide a bridge between kind of single-family areas and maybe more

02:31:06.500 --> 02:31:14.300
 high-density areas or high-impact areas, kind of between that bridge between those residential

02:31:14.300 --> 02:31:21.580
 areas and the mixed use or larger mixed use and commercial properties.

02:31:21.580 --> 02:31:26.940
 The criteria for approval is in subchapter 2 of the Denton Development Code.

02:31:26.940 --> 02:31:29.900
 And I won't read all of them to you.

02:31:29.900 --> 02:31:35.500
 Staff has analyzed the project and has determined it meets the criteria for approval.

02:31:35.500 --> 02:31:40.180
 In particular, it is the proposed rezoning is consistent with the purpose statement of

02:31:40.180 --> 02:31:41.660
 MN.

02:31:41.660 --> 02:31:46.380
 It's generally consistent with the future land use and overall goals of the comprehensive

02:31:46.380 --> 02:31:47.380
 plan.

02:31:47.380 --> 02:31:51.820
 Any redevelopment of the property would have to comply with the Denton Development Code

02:31:51.820 --> 02:31:52.820
 regulations.

02:31:52.820 --> 02:31:59.980
 So currently, the property owner is not attending to redevelop the property, but if it did happen,

02:31:59.980 --> 02:32:03.740
 all code requirements would be required.

02:32:03.740 --> 02:32:09.220
 And that would be in addition to drainage, floodplain, and ESA requirements.

02:32:09.220 --> 02:32:16.460
 And then we don't anticipate the zoning to generate significant adverse impacts to compatibility

02:32:16.460 --> 02:32:19.260
 infrastructure and fiscal impacts.

02:32:19.260 --> 02:32:21.700
 And we'll go over these just briefly.

02:32:21.700 --> 02:32:24.100
 So first of all, the comprehensive plan.

02:32:24.100 --> 02:32:29.500
 The future land use designation for the property is moderate residential.

02:32:29.500 --> 02:32:37.020
 Typically for moderate residential, we want to see more moderate densities and residential

02:32:37.020 --> 02:32:38.020
 development.

02:32:38.020 --> 02:32:42.100
 So we have between 5 and 12 dwelling units per acre is what we want to see.

02:32:42.100 --> 02:32:48.140
 But it does allow for commercial uses because we do want to have commercial uses near areas

02:32:48.140 --> 02:32:56.460
 of residential areas and areas with density to provide that necessary shopping and services

02:32:56.460 --> 02:32:58.740
 for community members.

02:32:58.740 --> 02:33:04.940
 So it is consistent with that as it does provide that commercial opportunity near an area of

02:33:04.940 --> 02:33:07.940
 residential development.

02:33:07.940 --> 02:33:12.340
 It is also, it's also consistent and that it does provide that transition.

02:33:12.340 --> 02:33:19.260
 So it provides that buffer between the residential properties to the north and then the high

02:33:19.260 --> 02:33:26.420
 speed high traffic roadway that is West University to the south.

02:33:26.420 --> 02:33:32.380
 We also looked at the preferred land preservation plan that's within our comprehensive plan.

02:33:32.380 --> 02:33:37.900
 And I do want to point to the map on the lower map on your screen.

02:33:37.900 --> 02:33:43.660
 That does show that the property is within that preferred land preservation plan.

02:33:43.660 --> 02:33:45.420
 And you can see that blue shading.

02:33:45.420 --> 02:33:48.820
 And that really is due to floodplain on the property.

02:33:48.820 --> 02:33:52.380
 As I mentioned in the backup, there is floodplain on the site.

02:33:52.380 --> 02:33:56.060
 It does encumber quite a bit of the property.

02:33:56.060 --> 02:34:03.300
 In fact, it covers the entire eastern lot and then a large portion of that western lot

02:34:03.300 --> 02:34:05.660
 including clipping the building.

02:34:05.660 --> 02:34:13.040
 That would prevent a lot of redevelopment potential for the property.

02:34:13.040 --> 02:34:14.940
 And we'll talk about that in just a minute.

02:34:14.940 --> 02:34:22.580
 But in terms of the land preservation plan, given the surrounding development, that much

02:34:22.580 --> 02:34:28.380
 of this floodplain corridor is already developed, we don't anticipate that this could serve

02:34:28.380 --> 02:34:30.820
 as something like a wildlife corridor.

02:34:30.820 --> 02:34:37.260
 I would also mention that any development of the property would require an ESA field

02:34:37.260 --> 02:34:42.080
 assessment to determine if there are any environmentally sensitive areas on the property.

02:34:42.080 --> 02:34:45.540
 And that would be required before any redevelopment.

02:34:45.540 --> 02:34:50.660
 If they did want to impact that ESA, if that ESA is present, they would have to get approval

02:34:50.660 --> 02:34:54.180
 of an alternative ESA plan.

02:34:54.180 --> 02:34:55.540
 So we also look at impacts.

02:34:55.540 --> 02:34:58.660
 In addition to the comprehensive plan, we want to see what's on the ground and see how

02:34:58.660 --> 02:35:02.300
 their requests could impact the surrounding properties.

02:35:02.300 --> 02:35:08.740
 So in terms of the zoning and those impacts, MN District is one of those districts that

02:35:08.740 --> 02:35:11.500
 limits more auto-oriented uses.

02:35:11.500 --> 02:35:16.980
 It's intended to be a little bit smaller, walkable type zoning district.

02:35:16.980 --> 02:35:21.780
 And so it would require approval of an SUP for something like drive-through restaurants,

02:35:21.780 --> 02:35:23.940
 automotive fuel sales, and bars.

02:35:23.940 --> 02:35:30.180
 So those types of uses that could create more of those larger impacts to the surrounding

02:35:30.180 --> 02:35:31.180
 property.

02:35:31.180 --> 02:35:39.420
 MN also would require a buffer and 40% tree canopy for any redevelopment of the site.

02:35:39.420 --> 02:35:43.900
 So once again, if the property owner did decide to redevelop the site, there would be those

02:35:43.900 --> 02:35:49.780
 protections within MN that would make it more compatible with the surrounding residential.

02:35:49.780 --> 02:35:55.460
 That smaller property size, you know, it's one acre, and the floodplain really do limit

02:35:55.460 --> 02:35:58.380
 the amount of development intensity on the property.

02:35:58.380 --> 02:36:04.740
 It's pretty encumbered by that floodplain, and you can see that on the map.

02:36:04.740 --> 02:36:08.100
 And then finally, right now, the building is not being used.

02:36:08.100 --> 02:36:15.160
 It is vacant, and rezoning could allow the building to be reused to keep that maintenance

02:36:15.160 --> 02:36:19.060
 on the property and activate that space.

02:36:19.060 --> 02:36:25.940
 In terms of infrastructure impacts, TIA was not required because it did not meet the threshold

02:36:25.940 --> 02:36:27.400
 for the number of trips per day.

02:36:27.400 --> 02:36:33.420
 So they anticipate there will be 462 trips per day, which is less than 1,000 for the

02:36:33.420 --> 02:36:34.420
 threshold.

02:36:34.420 --> 02:36:40.420
 Afternoon, they anticipate will be the peak, and there is adequate capacity on West University.

02:36:40.420 --> 02:36:44.700
 And then water, wastewater, right now, all of the properties, this subject site, as well

02:36:44.700 --> 02:36:49.420
 as the properties to the north, do have well and septic systems.

02:36:49.420 --> 02:36:53.700
 However, with the development that's going on in the area, in fact, just to the west

02:36:53.700 --> 02:36:56.580
 of the property, there's a new subdivision coming in.

02:36:56.580 --> 02:37:02.140
 Water, these types of infrastructure are coming to the area, and so the property owner could

02:37:02.140 --> 02:37:06.620
 tie on potentially in the future.

02:37:06.620 --> 02:37:08.140
 Notification was sent out.

02:37:08.140 --> 02:37:12.900
 At this time, we have not received any notices or any written responses.

02:37:12.900 --> 02:37:17.920
 The applicant did hold two virtual neighborhood meetings last week.

02:37:17.920 --> 02:37:26.020
 And there were several residents of the properties to the north did call in, and they did have

02:37:26.020 --> 02:37:33.340
 concerns about the, currently the property is being used as a bus stop for students,

02:37:33.340 --> 02:37:39.980
 and there were concerns about the use and students at the bus stop.

02:37:39.980 --> 02:37:47.220
 And so, and unfortunately, there's not a lot of options because the property provides that

02:37:47.220 --> 02:37:54.740
 turnaround for the bus that I think makes it convenient for, this is Chrome ISD.

02:37:54.740 --> 02:38:00.980
 So based upon the criteria for approval, staff recommends approval of the zoning change.

02:38:00.980 --> 02:38:06.700
 If it moves forward tonight, the tentative council date is July 15th, and I will be happy

02:38:06.700 --> 02:38:10.260
 to answer any questions, and the applicant is here.

02:38:10.260 --> 02:38:14.100
 Any questions for staff?

02:38:14.100 --> 02:38:17.700
 Commissioner Riggs.

02:38:17.700 --> 02:38:19.260
 I do have a question.

02:38:19.260 --> 02:38:23.500
 You talked about floodplain a little bit, but it's zone X, right?

02:38:23.500 --> 02:38:28.100
 So it's not, I don't know, does the city regulate zone X, or?

02:38:28.100 --> 02:38:29.100
 Yes.

02:38:29.100 --> 02:38:34.300
 There would have to be, and it's in my backup notes, there are provisions that they would

02:38:34.300 --> 02:38:37.740
 have to do if they decided to redevelop.

02:38:37.740 --> 02:38:43.900
 They may have to elevate the property over 18 inches over base flood elevation, or floodproof

02:38:43.900 --> 02:38:45.460
 the property.

02:38:45.460 --> 02:38:51.940
 So there are some things that they may have to do in order to reconstruct a new building.

02:38:51.940 --> 02:38:53.820
 The existing building could stay.

02:38:53.820 --> 02:39:03.660
 Any expansions, any reconstruction would require some additional work.

02:39:03.660 --> 02:39:06.460
 I guess I have one just out of curiosity.

02:39:06.460 --> 02:39:11.620
 You mentioned, it sounded like the history of this property is it was in use until sometime

02:39:11.620 --> 02:39:14.620
 in 2022?

02:39:14.620 --> 02:39:19.380
 I believe, yes, 2022, 2023, sometime around there.

02:39:19.380 --> 02:39:22.380
 Yes, I guess I'm just curious.

02:39:22.380 --> 02:39:29.940
 My understanding of the parking requirements that we have is that they vest for up to two

02:39:29.940 --> 02:39:36.180
 years and then you have to basically meet the current codes parking requirement if you

02:39:36.180 --> 02:39:38.860
 want to resume a previous use.

02:39:38.860 --> 02:39:43.380
 So is there sufficient parking meeting our standards of surface quality and that sort

02:39:43.380 --> 02:39:44.380
 of thing here?

02:39:44.380 --> 02:39:50.940
 We would have to look to see if this goes forward, then they'll have to come in with

02:39:50.940 --> 02:39:56.380
 a plan for us to look at in order to verify.

02:39:56.380 --> 02:40:00.220
 Is there maybe additional parking needed, we just have to take a look and see.

02:40:00.220 --> 02:40:01.220
 Okay.

02:40:01.220 --> 02:40:04.580
 So at this time, it's just the straight zoning because we're not at that phase yet.

02:40:04.580 --> 02:40:05.580
 Correct.

02:40:05.580 --> 02:40:06.580
 Understood.

02:40:06.580 --> 02:40:10.500
 Any other questions?

02:40:10.500 --> 02:40:12.820
 Not seeing any.

02:40:12.820 --> 02:40:21.140
 I'll invite the applicant up before I open the public hearing, Ms. Amy Bissett.

02:40:21.140 --> 02:40:26.140
 You'll have 10 minutes if you'd like it, but often you're more efficient than that.

02:40:26.140 --> 02:40:27.140
 Okay.

02:40:27.140 --> 02:40:28.140
 I'll do my best.

02:40:28.140 --> 02:40:30.740
 Amy Bissett, 109 North Elm, Denton 76201.

02:40:30.740 --> 02:40:38.220
 Let me get my presentation open real quick.

02:40:38.220 --> 02:40:44.540
 So this is a zoning change, as you know, from R2 to a little over one acre.

02:40:44.540 --> 02:40:49.580
 And I want to provide a little bit of context about just from the applicant's side, from

02:40:49.580 --> 02:40:52.680
 my client's side about what has occurred here.

02:40:52.680 --> 02:40:56.500
 So they purchased this property in 2023.

02:40:56.500 --> 02:41:00.740
 When they purchased it, they applied for a zoning verification letter from the city.

02:41:00.740 --> 02:41:06.140
 They received a letter that stated that this is a legal nonconforming use, the retail use

02:41:06.140 --> 02:41:08.400
 that was there at that point in time.

02:41:08.400 --> 02:41:16.500
 I can't trace exactly when the location was, the actual business closed operations, but

02:41:16.500 --> 02:41:18.380
 they received a zoning verification letter.

02:41:18.380 --> 02:41:23.500
 They believed when they purchased the property that they would be allowed to continue the

02:41:23.500 --> 02:41:27.520
 operation as it existed that day.

02:41:27.520 --> 02:41:29.020
 They're not developers.

02:41:29.020 --> 02:41:31.740
 They're not real estate investors.

02:41:31.740 --> 02:41:33.740
 They saw it as a business opportunity.

02:41:33.740 --> 02:41:38.980
 They wanted to be able to purchase the property, continue to operate the business and use that

02:41:38.980 --> 02:41:41.580
 as income for their family.

02:41:41.580 --> 02:41:50.260
 So because they are not real estate developers, they knew they needed a TABC license and they

02:41:50.260 --> 02:41:52.940
 pursued that and received it.

02:41:52.940 --> 02:42:01.220
 They hired a general contractor who began construction on a slight expansion and some

02:42:01.220 --> 02:42:03.020
 remodeling.

02:42:03.020 --> 02:42:05.780
 That general contractor did not pull a permit.

02:42:05.780 --> 02:42:10.360
 My client didn't really understand that there was a permit that needed to be pulled that

02:42:10.360 --> 02:42:12.540
 wasn't pulled at the time.

02:42:12.540 --> 02:42:19.980
 The city identified that work was going without a permit and issued a stop work order.

02:42:19.980 --> 02:42:28.060
 At that point in time, the city wanted to seek solutions, obviously, how do we help

02:42:28.060 --> 02:42:30.180
 you become conforming here?

02:42:30.180 --> 02:42:31.380
 You need a building permit.

02:42:31.380 --> 02:42:36.420
 So the contractor applied for a building permit and when the permit was under review, it was

02:42:36.420 --> 02:42:43.460
 determined that the changes to the existing building warranted an expansion of the legal

02:42:43.460 --> 02:42:49.420
 nonconforming use, which is not permitted under the DDC today.

02:42:49.420 --> 02:42:55.260
 With that, my client was stuck with a building that is, Commissioner McDuff, I heard you

02:42:55.260 --> 02:42:59.980
 say you drive by it all the time during work session, it's in disrepair, it's in very

02:42:59.980 --> 02:43:00.980
 bad shape.

02:43:00.980 --> 02:43:03.020
 I've been out there several times.

02:43:03.020 --> 02:43:06.500
 The contractor started demolition and now it's sitting vacant.

02:43:06.500 --> 02:43:10.340
 It has been sitting vacant since February of 2024.

02:43:10.340 --> 02:43:15.980
 My client is frustrated and concerned because their intention all along was to operate a

02:43:15.980 --> 02:43:19.980
 business that was already in use when they purchased the property and they just made

02:43:19.980 --> 02:43:26.100
 some mistakes in how they went about trying to renovate it.

02:43:26.100 --> 02:43:30.940
 So that's how I got involved essentially is just we met with the city to determine what

02:43:30.940 --> 02:43:35.660
 are our options in terms of bringing them into conformance so that they can continue

02:43:35.660 --> 02:43:39.940
 with their construction, get a building permit and get open and operating again.

02:43:39.940 --> 02:43:47.420
 So I just wanted to provide that context from the perspective of the property owner today.

02:43:47.420 --> 02:43:52.920
 So as Julie mentioned, under the current R2 zoning, you have a vacant commercial building

02:43:52.920 --> 02:43:58.080
 sitting there today, which means it cannot reopen and come into use for anything at this

02:43:58.080 --> 02:43:59.220
 point in time.

02:43:59.220 --> 02:44:07.300
 The legal nonconforming status has expired and the property is going to sit vacant until

02:44:07.300 --> 02:44:10.380
 a zoning change is made at this point in time.

02:44:10.380 --> 02:44:14.300
 There's really no other option other than tearing it down and building a home there,

02:44:14.300 --> 02:44:20.940
 which right on 380 we all know is not really compatible at this time.

02:44:20.940 --> 02:44:24.340
 So we are proposing mixed use neighborhood, Commissioner Prude, I heard your question

02:44:24.340 --> 02:44:29.020
 in a work session about why MN versus SC and I feel like Julie adequately addressed that.

02:44:29.020 --> 02:44:34.080
 We wanted something that is more compatible in scale with the surrounding neighborhood.

02:44:34.080 --> 02:44:37.020
 I do want to share a little bit of history with the neighborhood.

02:44:37.020 --> 02:44:44.620
 So Denton Estates, which I've outlined here, was platted in 1969 and at the time all of

02:44:44.620 --> 02:44:45.980
 it was in the ETJ.

02:44:45.980 --> 02:44:49.980
 You can see kind of the shaded area to the north is still in the ETJ today.

02:44:49.980 --> 02:44:50.980
 It's outside of the city limits.

02:44:50.980 --> 02:44:54.780
 So now part of the neighborhood is in the city limits and part of it is outside of the

02:44:54.780 --> 02:44:55.780
 city limits.

02:44:55.780 --> 02:45:02.940
 So all of the neighborhood is on well and septic today.

02:45:02.940 --> 02:45:08.260
 I do want to mention here that we've had some meetings with the flood payment plan manager

02:45:08.260 --> 02:45:13.540
 with the City of Denton and a floodplain development permit will be required for the footprint

02:45:13.540 --> 02:45:18.100
 expansion to the east, which is a small amount of square footage, does encroach slightly

02:45:18.100 --> 02:45:21.740
 into the floodplain and a permit will be required for that.

02:45:21.740 --> 02:45:26.940
 We're already aware of working with the floodplain manager on that.

02:45:26.940 --> 02:45:30.860
 Here are some renderings of what they had originally envisioned and got started with

02:45:30.860 --> 02:45:34.860
 before the stop work order was issued.

02:45:34.860 --> 02:45:40.100
 We did have a couple of neighborhood meetings last week and had three property owners in

02:45:40.100 --> 02:45:47.820
 attendance and we have three here to speak tonight and I want to share with you what

02:45:47.820 --> 02:45:52.660
 concerns I heard in the meetings last week, but then also make you aware that you'll call

02:45:52.660 --> 02:45:57.700
 three different names tonight, Chair Pruitt, one of them will come up in a company, another

02:45:57.700 --> 02:46:01.660
 one who will need translation assistance.

02:46:01.660 --> 02:46:08.060
 What we heard was that their kids go to Crum ISD and Crum used to route through the neighborhood

02:46:08.060 --> 02:46:13.080
 and pick up all the kids, but the roads have become in disrepair to a point that the school

02:46:13.080 --> 02:46:16.740
 district will no longer pick up the kids at their homes.

02:46:16.740 --> 02:46:23.580
 So right now the Crum school district utilizes the parking lot of this property to pick up

02:46:23.580 --> 02:46:25.060
 the kids.

02:46:25.060 --> 02:46:27.220
 The neighbors are concerned about that.

02:46:27.220 --> 02:46:33.540
 The intention here is for this to be a liquor store and so I understand their concern.

02:46:33.540 --> 02:46:38.560
 We have started exploring some conversations with the city about how can we relocate that

02:46:38.560 --> 02:46:43.220
 bus stop to the other side of my property owner's property, which is in the floodplain,

02:46:43.220 --> 02:46:47.580
 but maybe there's an opportunity to put some gravel in that's permeable where we can pull

02:46:47.580 --> 02:46:51.900
 it away from the intersection that it's currently at.

02:46:51.900 --> 02:46:57.540
 The other main concern that we heard is their desire to connect to city water as well as

02:46:57.540 --> 02:47:04.340
 to have some road improvements and we are aware that there's a new water line that was

02:47:04.340 --> 02:47:09.860
 just constructed on that side of the road for Legends Ranch and we're taking a look

02:47:09.860 --> 02:47:14.700
 at potential opportunities there, I think Julie mentioned the opportunity to connect

02:47:14.700 --> 02:47:16.820
 with city services in the future.

02:47:16.820 --> 02:47:21.540
 So we're looking at ways that we can continue to help the neighborhood as we work through

02:47:21.540 --> 02:47:24.780
 this process.

02:47:24.780 --> 02:47:30.420
 The next step, assuming the zoning change is approved by city council next month, we

02:47:30.420 --> 02:47:35.100
 would require a floodplain development permit, a building permit as well.

02:47:35.100 --> 02:47:39.420
 My client has engaged an architect to put together building plans and be able to go

02:47:39.420 --> 02:47:44.620
 pull a building permit so that they can recommence construction and their TABC permit they do

02:47:44.620 --> 02:47:48.980
 already have which is part of the confusion about why they thought they were allowed to

02:47:48.980 --> 02:47:56.500
 continue the use when they purchased the property and with that I'm happy to answer any questions.

02:47:56.500 --> 02:47:58.700
 Thank you very much.

02:47:58.700 --> 02:48:03.220
 Any questions for the applicant from the commission?

02:48:03.220 --> 02:48:06.620
 Thank you for addressing the comments in the work session.

02:48:06.620 --> 02:48:09.020
 Thank you.

02:48:09.020 --> 02:48:15.900
 This is a public hearing and we'll open the public hearing at this time.

02:48:15.900 --> 02:48:21.460
 As I call these three names, feel free to come up in whatever combination is helpful

02:48:21.460 --> 02:48:23.580
 for translation.

02:48:23.580 --> 02:48:32.940
 The first card I have is Letitia Compensato, yes, if you'd like to come up forward and

02:48:32.940 --> 02:48:39.580
 speak.

02:48:39.580 --> 02:48:52.420
 Very good.

02:48:52.420 --> 02:48:56.780
 If you can state your name and address and then you'll...

02:48:56.780 --> 02:49:05.720
 My name is Letitia Compensato, my address is 1256 Willow Lane, Tanton, Texas, 76207.

02:49:05.720 --> 02:49:17.300
 I've been living in Denton State for 27 years so she pretty much knows the entire story

02:49:17.300 --> 02:49:18.300
 of the neighborhood.

02:49:18.300 --> 02:49:19.300
 Okay.

02:49:19.300 --> 02:49:26.220
 Sorry, just a second, I will say because there's translation going on I'm going to wave the

02:49:26.220 --> 02:49:31.300
 standard four minute limitation because I want to make sure that you're not rushed.

02:49:31.300 --> 02:49:34.860
 But for the purposes of the record, we need the name and address of the translator as

02:49:34.860 --> 02:49:35.860
 well.

02:49:35.860 --> 02:49:36.860
 Okay, my address too?

02:49:36.860 --> 02:49:37.860
 Yes.

02:49:37.860 --> 02:49:41.500
 My name is Julia Camposano, my address is 1175 Willow Lane, Denton, Texas, 76207.

02:49:41.500 --> 02:49:42.500
 Thank you.

02:49:42.500 --> 02:50:01.260
 When you translate back into English, especially if you could make sure you're close enough

02:50:01.260 --> 02:50:05.020
 to the microphone since we're recording just for future reference.

02:50:05.020 --> 02:50:06.020
 Thank you.

02:50:06.020 --> 02:50:07.020
 That's great.

02:50:07.020 --> 02:50:15.220
 Thank you.

02:50:15.220 --> 02:50:19.620
 I oppose the type of business which we were told that it's a liquor store and for the

02:50:19.620 --> 02:50:31.480
 safety of our children.

02:50:31.480 --> 02:50:35.640
 It's a family neighborhood and it's not proper that there is like children all the way from

02:50:35.640 --> 02:50:44.100
 pre K to high school.

02:50:44.100 --> 02:50:48.860
 And she feels like before providing a permit, we have to have the main services from the

02:50:48.860 --> 02:50:53.120
 city, which is water and sewer, which we don't have right now.

02:50:53.120 --> 02:51:03.020
 The basics, 27 years living there without city water.

02:51:03.020 --> 02:51:19.900
 There has been times that there has been five days without water, a week, and with children.

02:51:19.900 --> 02:51:24.380
 I'm happy and grateful that you all have the time to listen to what I have to say because

02:51:24.380 --> 02:51:29.300
 I've been living there in Denton States.

02:51:29.300 --> 02:51:33.540
 Because living here and not having the basic services, it's hard.

02:51:33.540 --> 02:51:42.500
 It's hard for the families, for the kids, for the safety of our children.

02:51:42.500 --> 02:51:49.540
 There are some people, there are some neighbors that they don't understand that we must keep

02:51:49.540 --> 02:52:03.600
 our properties clean and how do I say, like looking good.

02:52:03.600 --> 02:52:09.980
 She has been given evidence to the city almost every year complaining and letting the city

02:52:09.980 --> 02:52:12.300
 what's going on with the neighborhood.

02:52:12.300 --> 02:52:21.580
 It's been going on for years, but it seems they don't care.

02:52:21.580 --> 02:52:37.180
 Because she's in pretty much the main flood zone and there's a ditch there.

02:52:37.180 --> 02:52:42.580
 All the water that comes, I'm going to say from crumb that comes down, goes through that

02:52:42.580 --> 02:52:43.580
 property.

02:52:43.580 --> 02:52:49.160
 All the main mobile home park, I'm going to say cut it in the middle, where she was pointing

02:52:49.160 --> 02:52:51.260
 all the floods and all the water comes through there.

02:52:51.260 --> 02:53:03.820
 So it affects everyone in the neighborhood.

02:53:03.820 --> 02:53:12.680
 It's embarrassing how the roads look right now, even though we pay taxes.

02:53:12.680 --> 02:53:20.320
 She pays thousands every year and ... Where's the money going to?

02:53:20.320 --> 02:53:27.460
 Because we don't ever get any kind of help from city or Denton County.

02:53:27.460 --> 02:53:40.020
 Now bringing a liquor business, it's not good for us as families and a lot of Hispanic people

02:53:40.020 --> 02:53:46.480
 that live there.

02:53:46.480 --> 02:53:55.140
 I don't think it's a good option and I don't think the neighbors agree with this.

02:53:55.140 --> 02:54:03.180
 If it's a convenience store, then yes, for liquor, no, I oppose and I think everyone

02:54:03.180 --> 02:54:04.180
 opposes.

02:54:04.180 --> 02:54:19.620
 Like I said, feel free to have a little bit of extra time because of the translation.

02:54:19.620 --> 02:54:30.220
 How is possible they want to get a permit for a commercial building when we don't even

02:54:30.220 --> 02:54:33.860
 have the basic from the city or the county?

02:54:33.860 --> 02:54:38.980
 That's what I wanted to communicate, y'all.

02:54:38.980 --> 02:54:41.340
 Okay, this is my turn now.

02:54:41.340 --> 02:54:51.060
 Any questions from the commission of the speaker, yeah, Commissioner McDade?

02:54:51.060 --> 02:54:53.300
 Do you own your property there?

02:54:53.300 --> 02:54:54.300
 Yes.

02:54:54.300 --> 02:54:55.300
 Thank you.

02:54:55.300 --> 02:54:56.300
 Thank you.

02:54:56.300 --> 02:55:07.460
 Yeah, if you'd like to go next, is this Julia or Salda?

02:55:07.460 --> 02:55:08.460
 Yes, it's Julia.

02:55:08.460 --> 02:55:09.460
 Okay, Julia.

02:55:09.460 --> 02:55:10.460
 Well, good afternoon, everyone.

02:55:10.460 --> 02:55:12.560
 My name is Julia Camposano.

02:55:12.560 --> 02:55:15.500
 I live in 1175 Cottonwood Lane.

02:55:15.500 --> 02:55:20.220
 I've been living there since I'm going to say 2004.

02:55:20.220 --> 02:55:26.300
 I opposed to this change mainly because of the safety of our children.

02:55:26.300 --> 02:55:33.940
 There's about 35 to 40 kids that the Chrome ISD picks up every morning and drops them

02:55:33.940 --> 02:55:36.100
 in the afternoon.

02:55:36.100 --> 02:55:41.380
 I try to fight with them in the past because this has been going on for years.

02:55:41.380 --> 02:55:49.380
 They refuse to pick up our kids from each house because of the condition of our roads.

02:55:49.380 --> 02:55:54.500
 We all agree to have a specific spot for our children, and that way the buses don't get

02:55:54.500 --> 02:55:58.500
 damaged because that's what we were told.

02:55:58.500 --> 02:56:05.380
 It's been behind the parking lot where that business is or was.

02:56:05.380 --> 02:56:10.020
 By the time I've been living there, that business was more like a convenience store.

02:56:10.020 --> 02:56:17.520
 It was only open at night and weekends, so it was not a whole day thing.

02:56:17.520 --> 02:56:22.180
 Another concern that I have, I requested with the Texas Department of Transportation a report

02:56:22.180 --> 02:56:26.780
 of all the car accidents that happened there because it's a pretty dangerous area.

02:56:26.780 --> 02:56:32.580
 I'm going to say two to three accidents per year happened there, including fatalities.

02:56:32.580 --> 02:56:38.900
 I even try to get a stop light for our children because the kids that live in Willow Lane,

02:56:38.900 --> 02:56:44.100
 they can drop off the bus and just walk back to their houses, but the other kids that live

02:56:44.100 --> 02:56:50.180
 on Cottonwood Lane, they have to walk on the bridge across front of that building to go

02:56:50.180 --> 02:56:51.180
 to their homes.

02:56:51.180 --> 02:56:56.140
 Well, I never got any response from the Texas Department of Transportation.

02:56:56.140 --> 02:57:01.180
 All they did, they choose to install reflectors on the bridge, and that was it.

02:57:01.180 --> 02:57:06.220
 The property maintenance, the grass right now, the property is up to here right now.

02:57:06.220 --> 02:57:11.380
 I don't know who's in charge, if it's any owner, but there is no proper maintenance

02:57:11.380 --> 02:57:15.160
 for that property.

02:57:15.160 --> 02:57:19.300
 Another concern is, just like she said before, we have no city services.

02:57:19.300 --> 02:57:24.340
 Even though there's another neighborhood next to us that it's mobile homes and they have

02:57:24.340 --> 02:57:28.380
 city water, we are the only ones that don't have any city water.

02:57:28.380 --> 02:57:36.700
 Like she said before, especially during wintertime, there has been four or five days without water.

02:57:36.700 --> 02:57:42.500
 We also brought this to the city attention, but what we were told is it's a private property,

02:57:42.500 --> 02:57:49.660
 so everyone is responsible for their own piece of land, including the roads.

02:57:49.660 --> 02:57:55.860
 Another concern that we have is our taxes may go up if this goes through, because if

02:57:55.860 --> 02:58:00.380
 it becomes commercial and residential, it may affect our taxes, and I don't think it's

02:58:00.380 --> 02:58:04.340
 fair because we don't even get any city services.

02:58:04.340 --> 02:58:09.920
 So that's why I oppose.

02:58:09.920 --> 02:58:10.920
 Thank you.

02:58:10.920 --> 02:58:13.140
 Any questions of the speaker?

02:58:13.140 --> 02:58:19.220
 Yeah, Commissioner Padrone.

02:58:19.220 --> 02:58:23.140
 When you're talking about the kids having to cross the bridge, are you talking about

02:58:23.140 --> 02:58:27.900
 the walkway that's on day 80 and not the little footbridge?

02:58:27.900 --> 02:58:28.900
 Yes.

02:58:28.900 --> 02:58:31.580
 So they're crossing on the sidewalk on 380.

02:58:31.580 --> 02:58:32.580
 Okay.

02:58:32.580 --> 02:58:33.580
 Thank you.

02:58:33.580 --> 02:58:39.180
 Like some kids will have to walk, like me, either my dad or me go pick up from the bus

02:58:39.180 --> 02:58:40.180
 stop.

02:58:40.180 --> 02:58:43.260
 But some other kids are like, I'm going to say the teenagers, they do have to walk through

02:58:43.260 --> 02:58:48.380
 the sidewalk, and they hold their little sisters or brothers.

02:58:48.380 --> 02:58:54.020
 Okay, Commissioner McDade.

02:58:54.020 --> 02:58:55.020
 Excuse me.

02:58:55.020 --> 02:58:56.020
 We have enough.

02:58:56.020 --> 02:58:57.020
 One more question.

02:58:57.020 --> 02:58:58.020
 One more question.

02:58:58.020 --> 02:58:59.020
 I'm sorry.

02:58:59.020 --> 02:59:02.340
 You own your land in this area that you're speaking of.

02:59:02.340 --> 02:59:03.980
 You do own the property?

02:59:03.980 --> 02:59:04.980
 Yes.

02:59:04.980 --> 02:59:08.420
 And also, who do you pay your city taxes to?

02:59:08.420 --> 02:59:10.660
 Do you pay them to the city of Denton?

02:59:10.660 --> 02:59:12.340
 Yes, every year.

02:59:12.340 --> 02:59:14.420
 But your kids attend Crum School?

02:59:14.420 --> 02:59:15.420
 Yes.

02:59:15.420 --> 02:59:16.420
 Thank you.

02:59:16.420 --> 02:59:25.820
 The last card I have is for Rosalba Camposano Chavez.

02:59:25.820 --> 02:59:27.260
 I hope I got that correct.

02:59:27.260 --> 02:59:30.060
 If not, you'll have to educate me.

02:59:30.060 --> 02:59:32.060
 Please state your name and address, and you'll have four minutes.

02:59:32.060 --> 02:59:35.180
 My name is Rosalba Camposano Chavez.

02:59:35.180 --> 02:59:45.780
 I own 1175 Cottonwood Lane and 1195 Cottonwood Lane, Denton, Texas, 76207.

02:59:45.780 --> 02:59:54.260
 I oppose for the same reason, for the safety of our children, mainly because it's the best

02:59:54.260 --> 02:59:55.260
 spot for our children.

02:59:55.260 --> 03:00:00.460
 I don't think it's safe for them to be walking on the side of the ... For the Willow Lane,

03:00:00.460 --> 03:00:03.540
 for the kids that live on the Willow Lane, there's no problem because they can just walk

03:00:03.540 --> 03:00:05.180
 on the road to their homes.

03:00:05.180 --> 03:00:09.100
 However, for our kids that live on Cottonwood Lane, they'll have to walk on the side of

03:00:09.100 --> 03:00:20.700
 the 380 highway, which we all know it's known for accidents and traffic.

03:00:20.700 --> 03:00:27.260
 Also I wouldn't want for our taxes to go up, especially we don't have roads, we don't have

03:00:27.260 --> 03:00:28.620
 city water and all that.

03:00:28.620 --> 03:00:35.900
 I personally, my two lots that I own, I pay taxes for Crum.

03:00:35.900 --> 03:00:46.300
 I pay for city and I pay for county, for Denton, sorry, I'm nervous.

03:00:46.300 --> 03:00:53.300
 That's the main concern why, and also because it's the type of business that they're wanting

03:00:53.300 --> 03:00:57.180
 to open, which I don't think it's safe for the neighborhood.

03:00:57.180 --> 03:01:03.140
 In fact, the neighborhood already is not really that safe, to be honest, and adding that type

03:01:03.140 --> 03:01:08.300
 of business to it, it will just make it not the best for us.

03:01:08.300 --> 03:01:16.620
 I think it will add more homeless and all that type of stuff that will make it less

03:01:16.620 --> 03:01:28.140
 safety for our children, and also because of the flood zone.

03:01:28.140 --> 03:01:35.820
 It gets pretty flooded when it rains, and I think that would also affect him as if he

03:01:35.820 --> 03:01:40.420
 wants to open that type of business, I don't think it will be the best for him.

03:01:40.420 --> 03:01:51.740
 And also, like she said, the maintenance right now, the grass is up to here, so if he could

03:01:51.740 --> 03:01:54.700
 change that, that would be great.

03:01:54.700 --> 03:02:02.580
 But the main concern is for the safety of our children, and that is why I oppose.

03:02:02.580 --> 03:02:04.740
 I guess I have a question.

03:02:04.740 --> 03:02:10.740
 It seems like the safety of the children and the community there is a common thread.

03:02:10.740 --> 03:02:17.540
 From your perspective, is that mostly connected to the bus situation?

03:02:17.540 --> 03:02:19.580
 Is that the safety you're mainly talking about?

03:02:19.580 --> 03:02:26.820
 Yeah, and also people there, I mean some people don't listen there, especially because nobody

03:02:26.820 --> 03:02:27.820
 tells them anything.

03:02:27.820 --> 03:02:31.860
 Pretty much it's the neighborhood where everybody does whatever they want to do, to be honest.

03:02:31.860 --> 03:02:35.500
 And they're always speeding and stuff like that.

03:02:35.500 --> 03:02:39.140
 If you're adding a liquor store to people who are already speeding at night, all night

03:02:39.140 --> 03:02:41.140
 long you can hear it.

03:02:41.140 --> 03:02:47.240
 And if you're going to add a liquor store there, it's only going to make it worse.

03:02:47.240 --> 03:02:48.240
 Thank you.

03:02:48.240 --> 03:02:51.860
 Any other questions from the commission?

03:02:51.860 --> 03:02:56.140
 Yeah, Commissioner MacDuff?

03:02:56.140 --> 03:02:59.540
 I have a list here of concerns.

03:02:59.540 --> 03:03:06.180
 Sorry, are these questions for the speaker or more general for staff?

03:03:06.180 --> 03:03:11.180
 Or just, I just want to let the public speaker know if they can sit down.

03:03:11.180 --> 03:03:17.100
 Yes, I have a list of concerns here and taking them into account, but I'm going to ask again.

03:03:17.100 --> 03:03:22.560
 It seems like that the main concern is for the kids' safety, overwhelming.

03:03:22.560 --> 03:03:29.260
 And is the secondary concern perhaps, or is it a liquor store and before we had a convenience

03:03:29.260 --> 03:03:35.420
 store attached or somewhere in that shopping center to buy things?

03:03:35.420 --> 03:03:41.940
 Yeah, before it was like a store and kind of like a bar, but there wasn't really that

03:03:41.940 --> 03:03:49.420
 many like customers there, like mainly it was open during the weekends, like it was

03:03:49.420 --> 03:04:00.340
 calm, like there was nothing, but just, I think that a liquor store would be different.

03:04:00.340 --> 03:04:03.580
 Commissioner Padron?

03:04:03.580 --> 03:04:06.420
 I think this is more for staff than our member of the public.

03:04:06.420 --> 03:04:07.420
 Thank you.

03:04:07.420 --> 03:04:08.420
 Thank you.

03:04:08.420 --> 03:04:15.940
 So, correct me if I'm wrong, so regardless of the type of business, because of the state

03:04:15.940 --> 03:04:21.100
 of the building, it's out of compliance with the zoning, so even if they wanted to change

03:04:21.100 --> 03:04:27.380
 the type of business, regardless, it would have to be rezoned for any business to operate.

03:04:27.380 --> 03:04:29.220
 Am I getting that correct or?

03:04:29.220 --> 03:04:30.220
 You're absolutely correct.

03:04:30.220 --> 03:04:31.220
 Okay.

03:04:31.220 --> 03:04:36.280
 So they are proposing just to rezone, so any use that would be permitted in the MN district,

03:04:36.280 --> 03:04:39.220
 if approved, could be developed on the site.

03:04:39.220 --> 03:04:43.940
 So right now, if the property owner changed their mind and said, "I want to bring back

03:04:43.940 --> 03:04:50.020
 a convenience store or modified grocery store," this zoning would still have to go through?

03:04:50.020 --> 03:04:51.020
 Correct.

03:04:51.020 --> 03:04:52.020
 Okay.

03:04:52.020 --> 03:04:53.020
 Correct.

03:04:53.020 --> 03:04:55.620
 Commissioner Dyer?

03:04:55.620 --> 03:05:01.260
 I guess maybe that's kind of the same exact question, is that we're just doing the zoning.

03:05:01.260 --> 03:05:06.180
 We're not approving to have it to be a liquor store.

03:05:06.180 --> 03:05:12.220
 Once this is approved, then the property owner has to come back to the city and ask to be

03:05:12.220 --> 03:05:16.860
 able to operate a liquor store out of there, and then the citizens would have to come back

03:05:16.860 --> 03:05:22.420
 and say, do they get a chance to say, "We don't want that," or is all of this information

03:05:22.420 --> 03:05:26.400
 kind of noted for the future?

03:05:26.400 --> 03:05:30.820
 So we don't have a separate use in our use tables for liquor store.

03:05:30.820 --> 03:05:33.580
 It would be retail sales.

03:05:33.580 --> 03:05:40.860
 So if this is approved, because MN allows for retail sales, then that use would be permitted.

03:05:40.860 --> 03:05:45.060
 All that they would have to do is demonstrate that they have sufficient parking and get

03:05:45.060 --> 03:05:50.860
 a CO, a certificate of occupancy, if the zoning were approved, and there wouldn't be an additional

03:05:50.860 --> 03:05:51.860
 public hearing.

03:05:51.860 --> 03:05:57.020
 So it is possible that if we approve this, then the property owner could do whatever

03:05:57.020 --> 03:06:04.340
 they want and the city would not necessarily take into account the community's concerns.

03:06:04.340 --> 03:06:05.340
 That is possible.

03:06:05.340 --> 03:06:10.020
 Any use in MN could be developed, yes.

03:06:10.020 --> 03:06:11.020
 Okay.

03:06:11.020 --> 03:06:18.300
 Julie, you mentioned in the slide, I think, that a bar would require an SUP in MN.

03:06:18.300 --> 03:06:19.300
 Correct.

03:06:19.300 --> 03:06:24.340
 Can you explain for us the difference between a bar and a liquor store from a classification

03:06:24.340 --> 03:06:25.340
 perspective?

03:06:25.340 --> 03:06:33.980
 Hailey may correct me, but a bar would allow on-site consumption, whereas a package sales

03:06:33.980 --> 03:06:35.980
 retail it would.

03:06:35.980 --> 03:06:36.980
 Correct.

03:06:36.980 --> 03:06:38.100
 I'll help you out.

03:06:38.100 --> 03:06:41.860
 So yes, Julie is correct that a bar is on-site consumption.

03:06:41.860 --> 03:06:46.100
 So that means you're purchasing it on the site and drinking it there.

03:06:46.100 --> 03:06:49.540
 With a liquor store, it's retail sales or package sales.

03:06:49.540 --> 03:06:57.500
 So from what I understand, it is illegal to consume the alcoholic beverages on the property

03:06:57.500 --> 03:06:59.300
 for where it's sold.

03:06:59.300 --> 03:07:00.300
 Okay.

03:07:00.300 --> 03:07:05.300
 I think the other thing is, to Julie's point, the liquor store is considered retail sales,

03:07:05.300 --> 03:07:10.120
 and I believe there's provisions in the state law that basically address that.

03:07:10.120 --> 03:07:15.980
 We have to treat liquor stores, since they are a retail function, similar to how we would

03:07:15.980 --> 03:07:20.140
 treat other retail stores, we cannot make a distinction.

03:07:20.140 --> 03:07:29.620
 Our rules, as I understand them, for businesses that provide alcoholic beverages, they follow

03:07:29.620 --> 03:07:35.380
 the state requirements because of when we adopted those requirements for our city.

03:07:35.380 --> 03:07:44.100
 So for retail sales of liquor stores, even for bars also, there are minimum separation

03:07:44.100 --> 03:07:49.700
 distances from protected land uses, such as churches and schools, but from residential

03:07:49.700 --> 03:07:53.900
 neighborhoods, there are not.

03:07:53.900 --> 03:08:02.980
 And just a second, I'll have more to say about this in a minute, but I want to get the factual

03:08:02.980 --> 03:08:05.380
 knowledge of what's there.

03:08:05.380 --> 03:08:10.760
 I really don't want this to turn into another green tree estates type thing, and I want

03:08:10.760 --> 03:08:16.760
 to help us separate out the different things that are going on here.

03:08:16.760 --> 03:08:24.220
 My question is, does staff have any information on what the water and septic situation is?

03:08:24.220 --> 03:08:29.140
 They don't look like one or two acre lots to me, so is it a communal system, or is it

03:08:29.140 --> 03:08:33.240
 every individual system where they all just built before the county even started looking

03:08:33.240 --> 03:08:34.780
 at that?

03:08:34.780 --> 03:08:39.320
 Help us understand that, just so that we can get some information on the table.

03:08:39.320 --> 03:08:44.580
 There are, according to our data, there are wells and septic systems on each lot.

03:08:44.580 --> 03:08:45.580
 Okay.

03:08:45.580 --> 03:08:46.580
 Thank you.

03:08:46.580 --> 03:08:47.780
 Commissioner Riggs?

03:08:47.780 --> 03:08:55.020
 You'll get it here in a minute.

03:08:55.020 --> 03:08:58.780
 So right now, it's currently zoned R2.

03:08:58.780 --> 03:09:04.660
 Could they actually build a single family on the lot the way it is now, they'd have

03:09:04.660 --> 03:09:06.660
 to tear this building down?

03:09:06.660 --> 03:09:11.500
 It would have to stay out of the flood zone or the floodplain, but yes, there could be

03:09:11.500 --> 03:09:12.500
 potentially.

03:09:12.500 --> 03:09:17.180
 That doesn't leave a lot of room.

03:09:17.180 --> 03:09:22.860
 So essentially, if the zoning doesn't get changed, then this just stays a vacant building

03:09:22.860 --> 03:09:26.400
 that's in disrepair.

03:09:26.400 --> 03:09:33.520
 That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.

03:09:33.520 --> 03:09:36.960
 And then this used to be the Porkies, right?

03:09:36.960 --> 03:09:39.100
 I believe so.

03:09:39.100 --> 03:09:40.100
 Yeah.

03:09:40.100 --> 03:09:41.100
 Okay.

03:09:41.100 --> 03:09:42.100
 Thanks.

03:09:42.100 --> 03:09:47.700
 Any other questions or discussion for the commission?

03:09:47.700 --> 03:09:57.100
 I was about to close the public hearing.

03:09:57.100 --> 03:09:58.340
 I see your hand.

03:09:58.340 --> 03:10:01.700
 This isn't really a forum where we go back and forth like that.

03:10:01.700 --> 03:10:09.180
 The one procedure that we have for coming back up is if the applicant would like a short

03:10:09.180 --> 03:10:16.100
 time for rebuttal, then the original commenters are able to speak on those items only.

03:10:16.100 --> 03:10:20.340
 Just one water well for the entire committee.

03:10:20.340 --> 03:10:21.340
 Okay.

03:10:21.340 --> 03:10:22.340
 Thank you.

03:10:22.340 --> 03:10:23.340
 Okay.

03:10:23.340 --> 03:10:29.540
 Any other questions or discussion?

03:10:29.540 --> 03:10:36.020
 I'm very torn on this one because it's in the flood zone.

03:10:36.020 --> 03:10:38.260
 It's not going to become a house.

03:10:38.260 --> 03:10:43.980
 And I feel bad for the applicant who, for whatever reason, I don't know if they didn't

03:10:43.980 --> 03:10:51.420
 do their homework or check in the zoning when they were purchasing it, but you've got a

03:10:51.420 --> 03:11:00.620
 whole neighborhood, a whole community of families and kids and yes, as a mom of three grown

03:11:00.620 --> 03:11:04.100
 kids, when they were little, I don't know that I would want to have lived next door

03:11:04.100 --> 03:11:10.740
 or had a liquor store come right there at the entrance.

03:11:10.740 --> 03:11:16.100
 But I feel for the applicant who obviously has an investment and wants to see a return,

03:11:16.100 --> 03:11:25.020
 so how do you, how does we as a commission vote to approve the zoning change, but also

03:11:25.020 --> 03:11:32.740
 know that that could entail, because we know the intent of what they're going to do and

03:11:32.740 --> 03:11:36.220
 we can't really ask them to do something else.

03:11:36.220 --> 03:11:41.860
 And once the change is made, they're going to conform to what now the new zoning is.

03:11:41.860 --> 03:11:44.540
 And so it's not like the staff can't really say no.

03:11:44.540 --> 03:11:47.540
 So I'm very, I'm conflicted on this one.

03:11:47.540 --> 03:11:48.540
 Commissioner.

03:11:48.540 --> 03:11:59.440
 So I don't know if the appropriate staff is here, but has any CDBG been considered or

03:11:59.440 --> 03:12:04.100
 talked about out here for?

03:12:04.100 --> 03:12:07.340
 So when you say has any CDBG been considered?

03:12:07.340 --> 03:12:12.780
 Like for to actually install water lines and sewer lines, I know it used to be CDBG funding

03:12:12.780 --> 03:12:15.680
 for those types of improvements, particularly for neighborhoods like this.

03:12:15.680 --> 03:12:16.860
 You know, that's a great question.

03:12:16.860 --> 03:12:23.220
 I don't know if it has in the past or not, from what I understand in that the roads have

03:12:23.220 --> 03:12:31.500
 been considered as private roads and the city has not, has determined it has not had a responsibility

03:12:31.500 --> 03:12:36.580
 for maintenance, but you know, one thing that we can commit to is go back and investigate

03:12:36.580 --> 03:12:39.980
 that further and look into that to see if there's a responsibility.

03:12:39.980 --> 03:12:45.780
 I think as Julie pointed out previously, especially with the history of the annexation, when this

03:12:45.780 --> 03:12:50.260
 property was initially developed or the neighborhood was initially developed, and Julie correct

03:12:50.260 --> 03:12:55.420
 me if I'm wrong, but you know, it, it was within the county, right?

03:12:55.420 --> 03:13:00.900
 And so the roads were not constructed to any city standards at the time because it was

03:13:00.900 --> 03:13:02.460
 out in the county.

03:13:02.460 --> 03:13:05.920
 And then we, the city eventually did some strip annexation.

03:13:05.920 --> 03:13:10.980
 So only a limited number of properties were brought into the city.

03:13:10.980 --> 03:13:15.020
 The remaining balance of the neighborhood is predominantly within, within the county.

03:13:15.020 --> 03:13:21.860
 So this property or this neighborhood in general, obviously has some challenges based upon what's

03:13:21.860 --> 03:13:26.980
 been presented and the commitment that we, at least as the planning staff can make is,

03:13:26.980 --> 03:13:31.260
 is trying to get with our colleagues to do some further investigation as to what options

03:13:31.260 --> 03:13:36.740
 there may be to be able to identify how the roads could get repaired.

03:13:36.740 --> 03:13:41.940
 And then also what options there may be for improving access to water and utilities for

03:13:41.940 --> 03:13:48.740
 the area.

03:13:48.740 --> 03:13:54.820
 So as everybody keeps thinking, I guess I'll, I'll share my thoughts, but I'm, I'm happily

03:13:54.820 --> 03:14:08.780
 to be interrupted if somebody says I know, you know, zoning helps us.

03:14:08.780 --> 03:14:19.340
 It was designed to prevent, you know, broad egregious malfeasance of, of polluting areas

03:14:19.340 --> 03:14:24.340
 back before we had pollution controls, et cetera.

03:14:24.340 --> 03:14:35.780
 And now it saddens me when I hear just the layers of information and what you know, whether

03:14:35.780 --> 03:14:43.440
 you know or not the, the motions you have to go through to, to keep a business open

03:14:43.440 --> 03:14:48.140
 that you just bought, right?

03:14:48.140 --> 03:14:53.220
 And so, you know, when I look at this case, I see it's really just the land use, right?

03:14:53.220 --> 03:15:02.900
 The question is, does a commercial building, a budding 380 make sense more than a home,

03:15:02.900 --> 03:15:03.900
 right?

03:15:03.900 --> 03:15:12.660
 From a land land use zoning perspective, there's certainly a lot of details here.

03:15:12.660 --> 03:15:21.060
 I'll just say that to the question of what happens, how do we get this neighborhood to,

03:15:21.060 --> 03:15:24.340
 to have better services in the future?

03:15:24.340 --> 03:15:31.060
 You know, cities, including Denton, have really forgotten how to make incremental small improvements

03:15:31.060 --> 03:15:32.060
 to things.

03:15:32.060 --> 03:15:34.700
 We, we do $30 million road projects.

03:15:34.700 --> 03:15:41.240
 We don't send a guy out with a truck to make the road not have holes in it anymore.

03:15:41.240 --> 03:15:45.360
 And so places like this get left behind.

03:15:45.360 --> 03:15:53.380
 At the same time, because of the current structure, it's, it's less likely in my mind that the

03:15:53.380 --> 03:15:58.760
 neighborhood will be helped out with those services if this business is shuttered because

03:15:58.760 --> 03:16:04.940
 of zoning and somebody's dreams are, are shuffled away.

03:16:04.940 --> 03:16:11.700
 So any other questions, comments?

03:16:11.700 --> 03:16:16.900
 I think I'm a little torn on this one, but you know, I also kind of go, the zoning seems

03:16:16.900 --> 03:16:17.900
 to make sense.

03:16:17.900 --> 03:16:22.340
 If I'm not thinking about what specifically is planned there, the zoning makes sense and

03:16:22.340 --> 03:16:26.540
 people who own the property do have property rights to, to develop it.

03:16:26.540 --> 03:16:30.840
 And I understand it's being used as a bus stop and I would hope that they could figure

03:16:30.840 --> 03:16:35.260
 something out to, to still allow that to happen or maybe use the different side, maybe the

03:16:35.260 --> 03:16:40.620
 other side of, on a cottonwood or something like that, maybe make something adequate.

03:16:40.620 --> 03:16:49.740
 Yeah, I guess, it's not really a question, but obviously there's no, nothing binding

03:16:49.740 --> 03:16:54.520
 in any, any of this, but it would be really nice if the owner, as they work through this

03:16:54.520 --> 03:17:02.300
 process would try to be communicative with Chrome ISD and find a solution to that.

03:17:02.300 --> 03:17:05.820
 Because that really seems like the, the most near term concern.

03:17:05.820 --> 03:17:06.820
 Yeah.

03:17:06.820 --> 03:17:07.820
 Sure.

03:17:07.820 --> 03:17:19.300
 You all, those of you who have been here a while as you see me here frequently, I represent

03:17:19.300 --> 03:17:25.380
 zoning cases almost exclusively in the city of Denton and I can tell you that I can commit

03:17:25.380 --> 03:17:31.300
 to continuing the conversations with my client and with the city to try to solve some of

03:17:31.300 --> 03:17:34.140
 these issues for the neighborhood.

03:17:34.140 --> 03:17:36.900
 My heart goes out to them as well.

03:17:36.900 --> 03:17:40.800
 I hear their concerns.

03:17:40.800 --> 03:17:48.940
 I think that their concerns are separate from the zoning change at hand here today and,

03:17:48.940 --> 03:17:55.620
 but I, I commit to maintaining a relationship with the neighborhood and seeking solutions

03:17:55.620 --> 03:17:59.220
 on behalf of the neighborhood.

03:17:59.220 --> 03:18:04.900
 Any other thoughts or questions or emotion?

03:18:04.900 --> 03:18:07.620
 Senator Dyer?

03:18:07.620 --> 03:18:12.900
 Well I'm just looking up here and it looks like as you get closer to 380s, some of those

03:18:12.900 --> 03:18:19.420
 property owners do pay city taxes, but as you get farther north into the community,

03:18:19.420 --> 03:18:22.300
 they're just paying the county and the school district.

03:18:22.300 --> 03:18:28.220
 So I think this is a tough one because you're finding, you know, some of it is city taxable

03:18:28.220 --> 03:18:35.940
 area and kind of going back to the, you know, everybody's property rights.

03:18:35.940 --> 03:18:37.500
 Commissioner Padron?

03:18:37.500 --> 03:18:44.540
 Again, no, I just wanted to say that I'm also very conflicted with this one as well.

03:18:44.540 --> 03:18:51.340
 I do feel though that there are some separate issues that are at hand and there are multiple

03:18:51.340 --> 03:18:58.220
 entities that frankly need to be at the table to find solutions to better the situation

03:18:58.220 --> 03:19:04.900
 in a wide variety of ways, whether that's roads, whether it's roads, safety for children

03:19:04.900 --> 03:19:11.260
 walking on 380 basically and, you know, just improvement of infrastructure.

03:19:11.260 --> 03:19:19.140
 But I guess going back to the key thing is the focus of not necessarily what the business

03:19:19.140 --> 03:19:24.380
 is but for the business to be able to operate and what that could look like.

03:19:24.380 --> 03:19:28.940
 I don't know, this one's really hard for me, but I appreciate the public comment.

03:19:28.940 --> 03:19:34.460
 It's not easy to come up and talk about, you know, your feelings and your situations and

03:19:34.460 --> 03:19:39.020
 advocate for yourself whether, you know, you're the property owner or you're a community that's

03:19:39.020 --> 03:19:45.420
 being impacted, but I really appreciate all the comment that was given and bringing light

03:19:45.420 --> 03:19:52.380
 to what is being experienced and if anything being able to continue to bring this conversation

03:19:52.380 --> 03:20:03.740
 to the forefront to see how we as a community can find solutions for this community.

03:20:03.740 --> 03:20:07.740
 Commissioner McDade.

03:20:07.740 --> 03:20:08.740
 Thank you.

03:20:08.740 --> 03:20:13.460
 I also want to thank the families for being brave enough to come here and speak before

03:20:13.460 --> 03:20:17.140
 all of us, I know how intimidating that can be.

03:20:17.140 --> 03:20:22.700
 I hear your concerns and I feel your concerns.

03:20:22.700 --> 03:20:29.060
 Perhaps maybe with this zoning change for the owner, it can also bring some improvements

03:20:29.060 --> 03:20:35.220
 to your neighborhood and your community and I know staff is listening and they're taking

03:20:35.220 --> 03:20:43.180
 notes and we'll keep talking to them about helping and assisting you to bring about changes

03:20:43.180 --> 03:20:44.180
 that are possible.

03:20:44.180 --> 03:20:51.980
 You know, we know that we and them can't do everything, but now that the staff knows and

03:20:51.980 --> 03:20:57.540
 hears what your issues and concerns are and you're paying city taxes, I think that they'll

03:20:57.540 --> 03:20:58.980
 be looked at.

03:20:58.980 --> 03:21:06.820
 However, I do feel that any improvements that the new owner plans to do there will still

03:21:06.820 --> 03:21:13.640
 require some city input as far as permits and you all should stay up to date and informed

03:21:13.640 --> 03:21:19.500
 on those things as they move forward also, but thank you very much for coming.

03:21:19.500 --> 03:21:20.960
 Thank you.

03:21:20.960 --> 03:21:29.140
 Before I ask for a motion, I see our assistant planning director, Keisha Siriano here.

03:21:29.140 --> 03:21:36.580
 If you would be able to provide the residents with the information about the neighborhood

03:21:36.580 --> 03:21:42.660
 information that you've explained to us over the last couple of months, I think that might

03:21:42.660 --> 03:21:48.620
 be a good first step.

03:21:48.620 --> 03:22:01.280
 Any other statements or a motion?

03:22:01.280 --> 03:22:09.660
 With that, I will move to approve the zoning request from R2 to MN.

03:22:09.660 --> 03:22:11.180
 And Commissioner MacDuff?

03:22:11.180 --> 03:22:19.680
 Yes, I will second that motion that's in line with the criteria of the debt and development

03:22:19.680 --> 03:22:24.460
 code and for approval of all applications and for approval of a zoning change.

03:22:24.460 --> 03:22:36.100
 If I may, also want to tack on with that motion to investigate these issues that have arisen

03:22:36.100 --> 03:22:39.660
 this evening.

03:22:39.660 --> 03:22:40.660
 Thank you.

03:22:40.660 --> 03:22:45.620
 Yeah, I think while they're separate issues, these types of things are sure to come up

03:22:45.620 --> 03:22:48.980
 at council again if it moves to that.

03:22:48.980 --> 03:22:54.300
 I will mention that I will close the public hearing if that wasn't stated before.

03:22:54.300 --> 03:22:58.980
 My apologies for not saying that earlier.

03:22:58.980 --> 03:23:17.020
 Seeing no additional questions or requests to speak, I'll call for a vote on the board.

03:23:17.020 --> 03:23:23.280
 And that item passes 6-0.

03:23:23.280 --> 03:23:26.260
 That brings us to, yes, please.

03:23:26.260 --> 03:23:30.500
 Ms. Bissett, could you please let them know when this item is slated to go to city council

03:23:30.500 --> 03:23:33.340
 or staff can also after the meeting.

03:23:33.340 --> 03:23:35.340
 Thank you.

03:23:35.340 --> 03:23:36.340
 Okay.

03:23:36.340 --> 03:23:38.620
 No, that's fine.

03:23:38.620 --> 03:23:45.020
 That brings us to item 6-A, hold a discussion regarding the planning and zoning project

03:23:45.020 --> 03:23:46.020
 matrix.

03:23:46.020 --> 03:23:50.540
 Do you have any updates for us?

03:23:50.540 --> 03:23:51.540
 Thank you, Chair Pruitt.

03:23:51.540 --> 03:23:54.380
 So a few updates for the commission's benefit.

03:23:54.380 --> 03:24:03.300
 So as it relates to the matrix itself, so we did add the last item on the front page,

03:24:03.300 --> 03:24:06.820
 public engagement techniques that staff performs as requested by Commissioner McDuff.

03:24:06.820 --> 03:24:10.100
 So we will get that scheduled for a future date.

03:24:10.100 --> 03:24:12.260
 So wanted to make note that we added that.

03:24:12.260 --> 03:24:17.300
 In terms of items that council has taken action on that you have seen previously or considered

03:24:17.300 --> 03:24:22.460
 previously since your last planning and zoning commission meeting, if you recall, there were

03:24:22.460 --> 03:24:25.860
 a couple of mobility plan amendments that you all recently considered.

03:24:25.860 --> 03:24:31.500
 One was with respect to, was kind of a combination effort related to Corbin Road, Underwood Road

03:24:31.500 --> 03:24:33.540
 and Springside.

03:24:33.540 --> 03:24:38.300
 So that was presented to council and council did approve that mobility plan amendment.

03:24:38.300 --> 03:24:42.980
 The other was the removal of the collector street west of I-35 north and south of 380

03:24:42.980 --> 03:24:44.860
 north of Jim Crystal.

03:24:44.860 --> 03:24:48.240
 It was a future collector roadway does not exist today.

03:24:48.240 --> 03:24:53.100
 So that item was also approved by council to remove that from the mobility plan.

03:24:53.100 --> 03:24:58.140
 A couple other items to make note, one of the things that we will add to your matrix

03:24:58.140 --> 03:25:03.620
 or just to your next agenda is we are anticipating doing the legislative update for the commission

03:25:03.620 --> 03:25:09.300
 at your meeting in July, provided our work session schedule permits since we continued

03:25:09.300 --> 03:25:15.100
 a few items but nonetheless just want to share with you bills that we were monitoring and

03:25:15.100 --> 03:25:20.300
 their potential impact to the city because we anticipate we will have to make some development

03:25:20.300 --> 03:25:23.020
 code amendments as a result of those bills being passed.

03:25:23.020 --> 03:25:26.900
 So we'll give more detail and update when we're posted for that discussion.

03:25:26.900 --> 03:25:30.620
 And then also a friendly reminder to make sure you have on your calendars.

03:25:30.620 --> 03:25:35.400
 We will have another CIAC meeting in July that dates July 23rd.

03:25:35.400 --> 03:25:39.740
 So I would anticipate likely a 4 p.m. start.

03:25:39.740 --> 03:25:45.140
 So if you can make sure that that is on your calendars and accept Kathy's meeting invites

03:25:45.140 --> 03:25:49.520
 if you will or at least let us know if you're going to attend or if you're not able to attend

03:25:49.520 --> 03:25:51.860
 so we can ensure that we have quorum.

03:25:51.860 --> 03:25:56.220
 But this will be a report that has to be given to the CIAC.

03:25:56.220 --> 03:25:58.840
 So we will have that forthcoming.

03:25:58.840 --> 03:26:00.940
 And that concludes my report.

03:26:00.940 --> 03:26:05.980
 >> Thank you, any items to add to the matrix from the commission?

03:26:05.980 --> 03:26:16.060
 I don't necessarily think this needs to go on the matrix but could staff, could you explain

03:26:16.060 --> 03:26:20.460
 what our procedures are for members of the public that want to come and speak that need

03:26:20.460 --> 03:26:23.580
 translation assistance just for future reference?

03:26:23.580 --> 03:26:33.940
 >> Sure thing so I believe it's actually posted on our agenda.

03:26:33.940 --> 03:26:38.700
 If not, my understanding is that the request needs to be made through the city secretary's

03:26:38.700 --> 03:26:43.540
 office at least three days in advance of the meeting so that we can make sure that we are

03:26:43.540 --> 03:26:48.620
 able to arrange for the appropriate translation services.

03:26:48.620 --> 03:26:49.620
 Anything else to add Kathy?

03:26:49.620 --> 03:26:52.620
 Did I get that correct?

03:26:52.620 --> 03:26:59.020
 >> If they are requesting translation services, is there a specific location that they search

03:26:59.020 --> 03:27:00.700
 to find?

03:27:00.700 --> 03:27:04.220
 If somebody needs translation services, how would they find to request it?

03:27:04.220 --> 03:27:07.160
 >> Thank you, I appreciate you asking that and I should have specified that request needs

03:27:07.160 --> 03:27:09.820
 to be through the city secretary's office.

03:27:09.820 --> 03:27:13.660
 The city secretary's office makes the arrangements for the translation services.

03:27:13.660 --> 03:27:20.660
 >> Yeah, I guess just follow up if we can double check and make sure the standard agenda

03:27:20.660 --> 03:27:25.740
 forms have that information in them.

03:27:25.740 --> 03:27:28.740
 I see visual representation.

03:27:28.740 --> 03:27:34.180
 >> Last page, because I was looking at the front page of the agenda.

03:27:34.180 --> 03:27:40.100
 So at the very end of the agenda in all capital letters, it does mention that the city of

03:27:40.100 --> 03:27:43.620
 Denton's designated public meeting facilities are accessible in accordance with Americans

03:27:43.620 --> 03:27:45.260
 with Disabilities Act.

03:27:45.260 --> 03:27:48.660
 The city will provide accommodations such as sign language interpreters for the hearing

03:27:48.660 --> 03:27:53.020
 impaired if requested at least 48 hours in advance of the schedule meeting, please call

03:27:53.020 --> 03:28:01.820
 the city secretary's office at 940-349-8309 or use telecommunication devices for the deaf

03:28:01.820 --> 03:28:06.200
 by calling 1-800-RELAY-TX so that reasonable accommodations can be arranged.

03:28:06.200 --> 03:28:12.140
 So while it does not specifically address translation services, we do provide and work

03:28:12.140 --> 03:28:18.820
 on that assistance, so hopefully again contacting the city secretary's office for that service

03:28:18.820 --> 03:28:20.780
 and then they will make sure they coordinate with us.

03:28:20.780 --> 03:28:21.780
 >> Very good.

03:28:21.780 --> 03:28:22.780
 All right.

03:28:22.780 --> 03:28:25.020
 It sounds like no matrix additions.

03:28:25.020 --> 03:28:29.700
 Are there any concluding items, anyone?

03:28:29.700 --> 03:28:35.540
 Thank you, everybody, for a little bit longer night, but I think there were lots of things

03:28:35.540 --> 03:28:38.220
 to consider, so thank you for your time.

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 With that, I will adjourn the planning and zoning meeting on June the 25th.