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 Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission's work

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 session at 5 p.m., or 5.01 p.m. I will call this meeting to order with the Quorum President.

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 I'll let the record show that Commissioner Padron is not yet here.

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 She is on her way.

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 We will start with any citizen comments on the consent agenda items.

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 I don't see any clarification for items on the agenda.

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 We do have a full work session scheduled this afternoon, so we're going to go briefly over

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 these until we get to the public hearings.

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 Anybody have any questions on the minutes or the consent agenda item?

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 And there's two minutes because of the revision.

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 Thank you, Commissioner McDuff, for catching that last time.

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 On the items for individual consideration, the first three, A, B, and C, are requested

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 for extension.

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 Is there any questions on those?

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 We'll see the presentation in the regular session.

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 Okay.

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 If no questions at this time, I do want to cover item 4D, FP250023, just because it's

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 a little bit different in that it's not a blanket approval or denial or extension.

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 Good evening, Commission.

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 Angie Manglars, Development Review Manager.

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 This is a final plot for Phase 1A of the Coal Ranch Master Plan Community.

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 This final plot is situated approximately 2,800 feet west of Underwood Road, just north

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 of FM2499.

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 It is 155 acres, and the purpose of the final plot is to establish approximately 417 single-family

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 lots along with common open-space lots and dedicate rights of way and easements necessary

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 to serve the development.

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 At this point in time, they're not quite at full approval.

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 Staff is recommending a conditional approval contingent upon compliance with the Denton

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 Development Code, Section 8.3.2.8, which requires that final approval of civil engineering plans

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 prior to the final plot being approved and being able to be filed.

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 They've satisfied all of the other final plot comments that staff has had.

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 The plot will come back before you all should it receive that conditional approval to remove

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 that condition, so that it could then be filed at the county.

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 So this doesn't allow them to file the plot.

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 It does allow them to continue to progress forward, but the plot will come back before

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 you all once those conditions have been satisfied for final approval and filing at the county.

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 Any questions on this item?

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 Seeing none, thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 It brings us to our public hearings, Commissioner McDade.

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 We're going to go to 5A, so if you'd like to recuse, you can step in the back room.

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 This is item 5A, PDA 250003A for the Gateway of Denton Signs.

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 You don't look quite like Mia.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission.

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 Haley Zygurski, Assistant Planning Director, filling in for Mia Hines this evening.

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 So the request before you this evening is approval of a PD amendment to incorporate

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 special sign standards for the Vintage Travel Plaza, which is located at the southeast corner

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 of Vintage and I-35W.

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 The development came before you all a couple of years ago for site plan approval for a

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 travel center that includes a convenience store fueling station, car wash, and a couple

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 of restaurants within the development.

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 So they have now completed their civil engineering plans, their final plat, and realized that

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 they need to deviate from the city's sign code.

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 So the request before you is for establishing those sign standards to allow the pole sign

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 that you see here on the screen to be slightly larger and taller than what would be incorporated

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 or what would be allowed normally under the sign code.

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 In exchange, they are offering to impose limitations in terms of the number of signs that can be

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 on site overall.

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 So all of that detail we can get into in the regular meeting, but staff is recommending

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 approval of this as it complies with not only the criteria for a special sign district,

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 but also plan development amendments and all other applications under the DVC.

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 And I'm happy to answer any questions.

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 Any other questions, especially of facts that weren't included in the agenda sheet?

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 Commissioner Dyer, you look like you have something.

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 I do.

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 Okay.

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 So I'm just looking, you know, at where this travel station is going to be and the sign

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 and I get why they want to have it because this is set back off of Interstate 35W.

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 But I also know that Interstate 35W is about to, you know, at some point get frontage roads

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 and the 288 loop is going to come down to the west and go in 2449.

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 So I don't know if, you know, there's plans for 2449 to get because right now it's just

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 a two lane, if that's going to get increased to a four lane down the road, like the placement

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 of this sign, will this be impacted by all of that future road improvement?

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 Sure.

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 It's my understanding through the applicant working through the civil engineering plan

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 and plat review process that all of that right of way that's needed for those roads is accounted

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 for.

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 So this development should not be impacted by either the I-35 project or future loop

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 288.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Any other questions?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 That brings us to item 5B, excuse me, S25-0002 for Palladium Denton West.

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 Hello, Sean.

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 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

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 Let me go ahead and open up my item here, which I'm hoping is here.

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 Let's see.

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 Thank you.

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 I believe you.

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 See here?

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 Oh, there it is.

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 No?

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 There we are.

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 Thank you.

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 There we are.

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 All right.

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 So this item is S25-0002, the Palladium Denton West project.

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 This is a request for a specific use permit to allow for a multifamily use on approximately

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 4.1 acres of land on the east side of Fall Meadow Street, right near the intersection

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 of Garden View Circle and Fall Meadow Street.

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 We are recommending approval.

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 This does comply with our future land use map and meets the criteria for approval.

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 And we will, of course, get into that in more detail in our work session presentation.

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 And we'll remind you, your primary decision-making criteria will be those within the code for

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 SUPs.

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 However, I do want to take a minute because this is the first presentation, sorry, this

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 is the first project that's going to take advantage of our Chapter 212 Incentives for

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 Affordable Housing.

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 And so I want to briefly address what they're doing with that and how this meets those requirements,

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 just so you have that background and you have that understanding as we discuss their site

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 plan and their landscape plan later, because there will be some modifications to both of

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 those based on their taking advantage of these incentives.

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 So as some of you all may remember, back in 2024, this proposal came before you all and

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 then went to City Council and was approved to have a number of possible flexibility incentives

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 built into our development code in order to encourage affordable housing.

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 So essentially based on the amount of affordable housing and the amount of affordable housing

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 at certain levels, which you can see different levels there on the table, three to four to

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 five, six to seven, eight to nine, incentives, flexibility could be allowed for a project,

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 depending on how much they're providing.

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 So that would be areas in which they would not be required to meet the standard requirements

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 that any other development would, based on providing that additional affordable housing.

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 This project is proposing to provide affordable housing that would meet that first tier, three

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 or fewer.

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 And I have provided the percentages there in green that they are providing in terms

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 of housing at the extremely low, very low and low income moderate levels.

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 As you can see, they're exceeding the percentage for all of those.

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 Based on that, they will be taking advantage of three incentives, the parking reduction,

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 a landscape point reduction and a height increase.

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 And I will flag those as I'm going through my presentation later so that you can see

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 exactly how those worked out.

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 But all three of those are options they're able to take advantage of because they're

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 providing affordable housing.

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 Again, as I noted, housing affordability is not one of the criteria that we evaluate SUPs

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 on.

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 But just so you have that understanding when these come in, that's why they were granted

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 the ability to have some of that flexibility in their plans.

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 With that, that's my work session announcement.

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 Happy to answer any questions you all have.

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 Any questions?

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 I don't see any.

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 Thank you very much, Shawn.

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 Thank you.

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 It's exciting to see from planning to a project planned within less than a year, I think.

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 So, good job.

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 Hold on just a second, Julie.

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 Given the fact that Commissioner Padrone is not here yet, I'm going to motion that we

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 table item 3A and do 3B first, if that's okay, if there's no objection, and do the annexation

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 work session.

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 Would that be okay?

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 Yeah, that's fine.

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 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think she'll be here soon; she's on her way, so.

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 Okay, good evening, everyone.

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 Angie Manglaris, Development Review Manager.

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 And today, in continuing with our boot camp series, we will be covering annexations and

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 what that process looks like.

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 So as part of our boot camp today, I'm going to go over a couple of key definitions, a

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 little bit about state law.

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 We'll talk about the City of Denton's annexation history, review annexation procedures and

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 non-annexation agreements, and then we'll kind of walk through an example for what it

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 looks like from going from a non-annexation agreement to inside the city limits.

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 So first, annexation is the means by which cities expand their boundaries.

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 We are allowed to annex from our extraterritorial jurisdiction.

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 I have a map that shows that on the next slide, but the ETJ is the unincorporated area contiguous

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 to municipal boundaries.

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 The area of the ETJ depends on the municipality's population.

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 So the City of Denton, we are over 100,000 in our population, and so our ETJ extends

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 out five miles from our city boundaries.

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 That ETJ doesn't get any bigger.

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 What we have is what we got, but that's kind of setting that stage.

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 So this map here shows the city limits in green, ETJ Division 1 in the mustardy yellow,

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 and ETJ Division 2 in the pinkish purple.

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 So the city maintains an ILA with Denton County that establishes ETJ Divisions 1 and 2 and

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 spells out those requirements.

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 So in ETJ Division 1, which is the area in yellow, we are able to apply the DDC subdivision

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 requirements as well as some of our civil engineering plan requirements when it comes

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 to reviewing infrastructure that may be tying into our water and wastewater.

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 In ETJ Division 2, really, development and subdivision of land are all subject to the

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 Denton County and state law requirements.

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 This chart kind of helps explain the differences in some of the key topics that you all see

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 on a daily basis and where it varies from city limits to ETJ Division 1 and ETJ Division

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 2.

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 So you'll see in city limits, we have zoning authority, we have subdivision regulations,

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 we have tree preservation requirements and gas well requirements.

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 When you go to ETJ Division 1, we're really just looking at those subdivision requirements

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 where we have authority and then in ETJ Division 2, we don't really review anything.

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 State annexation law has changed a lot over the years and it continues to change.

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 I'm not going to go through all of these in depth, but a couple of things I want to highlight.

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 So over the years, cities' abilities to annex, especially involuntarily, have gradually been

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 reduced.

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 And so in 2007, it was required that cities be able to offer development agreements in

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 lieu of annexing properties that they were wanting to acquire, and that's where our non-annexation

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 agreements really started to come from, and we'll talk more about those in a minute.

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 And as time has gone on, in 2019, cities' ability to involuntarily annex property was

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 really, really restricted.

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 So when we see most of our annexations today, they're coming from properties that may have

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 had a non-annexation agreement on them.

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 And then before we go any further, it's always kind of helpful to see a history of annexation

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 over time, so we're going to kind of walk through the city of Denton's annexation history

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 from 1945 to today, and so you'll see that the city limits is in gray, and then as we

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 expand area, you'll see it come online in a lighter green.

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 So you can see there's some growth in the '60s where we start to annex, but in the '70s

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 and the '80s, you'll see significant growth, as well as some strip annexations, starting

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 to add some property along the northern perimeters, and then areas like ropes and ranch come online,

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 along with some additional annexations where you have landmark today and further up to

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 the north, and then starting to fill in sort of what we call donut holes from then to now.

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 That's kind of a brief time lapse.

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 We can, if you want, later on go through those bit by bit if you want to see in more detail.

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 Or we could do it now.

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 So anyway, the Texas Local Government Code Chapter 43 does spell out procedures for municipal

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 annexation, including regulations.

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 You do have to provide for continuity of use for the use that is on that property at the

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 time.

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 You do have to outline when annexing a property annexation plan, including specific timeline

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 requirements.

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 Property that is annexed into the city does have to be a minimum 1,000 feet in width,

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 and the maximum amount that a city can annex each year is 10% of its total land area.

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 In addition, annexations do have to come with provision of service, and so we have what's

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 called a municipal service agreement that we enter into with the property owner when

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 annexing.

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 In addition to all of that, the City of Denton's city charter and the Denton Development Code

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 spell out steps in the annexation process, and that includes providing that municipal

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 services agreement, noticing of the annexation, conducting public hearings and ordinance readings,

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 and then providing for an effective date for that annexation.

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 And we're going to go through an example that will kind of explain how that all works.

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 So as I mentioned earlier, state law does require that the cities offer owners of property

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 that the city wants to annex a non-annexation agreement.

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 If the property meets any of these uses, so agricultural, wildlife management, timber

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 use, the city also offered non-annexation agreements to areas that were used for single-family

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 residential.

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 And so these were initially offered to landowners between 2010 and 2016.

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00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:54,040
 Those initial non-annexation agreements were valid through August of 2020.

234
00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:00,720
 At that time, extensions were offered, and those are valid through August of 2040.

235
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,680
 Non-annexation agreements require that the property be used for single-family residential

236
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,000
 or agricultural, wildlife timber-related uses.

237
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:15,480
 The City of Denton regulations do apply to proposed developments on non-annexation properties.

238
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,340
 So development applications and building permits do need to be submitted through the City of

239
00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:20,340
 Denton for review.

240
00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:25,200
 So that is a little different than the other properties we talked about in our ETJ.

241
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,000
 Land may be subdivided for non-annexation agreements, however, it needs to maintain

242
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,480
 a minimum five acres in size.

243
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,600
 So we talked a lot about kind of how those processes work.

244
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,160
 It does help a little bit with the annexations, because there's a lot going on to kind of

245
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,160
 see it in real time.

246
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,760
 So we'll walk through an example.

247
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,800
 So this right here is our little, we call them donut holes, right?

248
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,560
 It's surrounded by city limits.

249
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,840
 But this particular little piece has not yet been annexed.

250
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,880
 It's still located in the city's ETJ.

251
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,480
 This particular piece of property has been used for agricultural reasons for the last

252
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,980
 30 years.

253
00:19:00,980 --> 00:19:06,440
 This landowner chose to enter into a non-annexation agreement with the city in 2010.

254
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:12,320
 And since 2010, all of the areas around this non-annexation agreement property have been

255
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,380
 developed with higher intensity residential and commercial uses.

256
00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:24,320
 So now it's time to retire, sell the property, interested in selling it for development,

257
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,780
 and come to the city and want to talk about how can I do that.

258
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:30,800
 So first thing we're going to do is say, what does the non-annexation agreement say?

259
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,760
 In this case, it says that the non-annexation agreement is valid provided that this property

260
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:40,640
 continues to be used for farm and ranch-related uses or single-family detached dwellings provided

261
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,360
 those are five acres and greater.

262
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,320
 So in this case, the non-annexation agreement's not going to allow for the development this

263
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:47,320
 property owner wants.

264
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,760
 They'd like a little bit higher residential density, so they're going to begin the process

265
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,300
 of annexing into the city.

266
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,340
 So here that really begins with the municipal services agreement.

267
00:19:58,340 --> 00:20:02,480
 This is the first step in the annexation process.

268
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:08,180
 The Texas Local Government Code does state that if a municipality is to annex property,

269
00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:13,220
 it does first need to negotiate and enter into a written service agreement that provides

270
00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:16,640
 for services to the area to be annexed.

271
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,700
 So the city of Denton has a standard municipal services agreement that does negotiate and

272
00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:26,880
 provide for the provision of streets, water, wastewater, police, fire, really any service

273
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:33,600
 that any landowner inside the city of Denton receives, those annexing into the city must

274
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,400
 also receive.

275
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,440
 And then as part of that step, the MSA ordinance will adopt an annexation schedule that will

276
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,640
 outline the process going forward from the adoption of the municipal services agreement

277
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,280
 to being annexed into the city.

278
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,960
 So once that municipal services agreement is adopted, city council will hold a public

279
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,620
 hearing regarding the annexation, and then following that public hearing, the first reading

280
00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:04,540
 of the annexation ordinance is read into the record at city council.

281
00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:08,520
 Once that has occurred, the entire annexation ordinance is then published in the Denton

282
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:09,520
 Record Chronicle.

283
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:16,140
 And per the city charter, the annexation can't be acted on for 30 days following publication.

284
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:20,300
 So roughly 30 days, but usually a little bit longer, the second reading of the annexation

285
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:27,220
 ordinance occurs, and at that time, city council can take action and approve or deny that annexation

286
00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:28,220
 ordinance.

287
00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:32,180
 But all of those steps need to occur first, including that 30-day waiting period prior

288
00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:38,820
 to city council being able to act on the annexation ordinance.

289
00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:40,260
 So now you're in the city.

290
00:21:40,260 --> 00:21:41,260
 What now?

291
00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:42,900
 What happens next?

292
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:48,660
 So annexation ordinances are typically effective immediately after adoption, and annexed properties

293
00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:53,140
 are automatically assigned a placeholder designation of rural residential.

294
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:58,300
 So this is not necessarily their initial zoning, but we do have to provide a placeholder zoning

295
00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:02,580
 designation once a property comes into the city.

296
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:04,500
 We use rural residential.

297
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:09,700
 So after that has occurred, the properties in the city limits, it's at that time that

298
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:14,860
 they can then pursue your typical rezoning and development procedures, which is typically

299
00:22:14,860 --> 00:22:16,860
 where you all will come in.

300
00:22:16,860 --> 00:22:20,460
 So they've been answered to the city, they have a placeholder designation, typically

301
00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:24,520
 if we were following this example, they'd be pursuing a zoning designation that would

302
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,940
 allow them the type of development they're wanting to see, and would come before this

303
00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:31,740
 body to get that approval.

304
00:22:31,740 --> 00:22:32,740
 That's annexation.

305
00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:38,540
 Kind of in a nutshell, I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.

306
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:40,980
 Any questions?

307
00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:44,280
 Commissioner Riggs.

308
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:50,940
 So in the annexation, is there a certain timeline which services have to be provided?

309
00:22:50,940 --> 00:22:52,860
 That's a great question.

310
00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:57,980
 Our municipal services agreements do not spell out a specific timeline in which they have

311
00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:02,220
 to be provided.

312
00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:05,480
 I got a couple questions.

313
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:15,580
 One, it was new to me the word salad about our not being initial zoning per state law.

314
00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:18,080
 I've always heard that it's a placeholder.

315
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:24,580
 Does that mean that while we show that on the map, they're not bound to the zoning limitations

316
00:23:24,580 --> 00:23:26,100
 in that zone?

317
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,060
 Explain to me what that means.

318
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:31,740
 Do you have a better way to explain initial versus placeholder?

319
00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:38,060
 It is a little word salady to your point, and it does follow state law language.

320
00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:39,060
 Right.

321
00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:43,660
 I mean, we would enforce the rural residential zoning that's on the property, so even though

322
00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:48,020
 it's viewed as a placeholder, those are the rules that one has to follow.

323
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:49,020
 Okay.

324
00:23:49,020 --> 00:23:50,020
 Yeah.

325
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:52,020
 Anything else to add, Haley?

326
00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:53,020
 Okay.

327
00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:57,780
 It's more of a definitional difference between initial and placeholder, but functionally

328
00:23:57,780 --> 00:23:58,780
 it's...

329
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:03,060
 Functionally, if they didn't, for whatever reason, pursue rezoning, we would look at

330
00:24:03,060 --> 00:24:08,260
 what our R allows and enforce that, which isn't that much different than the NAA.

331
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:09,260
 Okay.

332
00:24:09,260 --> 00:24:14,040
 In some communities, that initial placeholder zoning is actually referred to as agriculture.

333
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,780
 Our zoning ordinance, I think, used to have the agricultural reference, but then we removed

334
00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:19,940
 it with the adoption of the 2019 code.

335
00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:20,940
 Am I correct?

336
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:25,940
 I'm getting some affirmative head nods from the Peanut Gallery, so they predate me.

337
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:26,940
 Okay.

338
00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:27,940
 Thank you.

339
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:36,020
 And then secondly, I may be totally wrong on this.

340
00:24:36,020 --> 00:24:43,620
 Is there, in the non-annexation agreements, is there a date on termination at which annexation

341
00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:46,660
 happens regardless of whether the property has been developed?

342
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:47,660
 How does that happen?

343
00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:50,620
 Because they go for a certain term, right?

344
00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:53,820
 It would be when those terms expire.

345
00:24:53,820 --> 00:25:00,460
 In the case of the 2020 annexation expirations, we allowed landowners to elect to continue

346
00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:04,260
 that agreement rather than being annexed into the city.

347
00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:08,880
 And some of it's still being worked out, but typically, yeah, we offer the extension or

348
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,880
 we did in the past.

349
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,260
 I don't know what we'll do in 2040, but...

350
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:17,180
 But for the majority of those agreements at termination, it's the city's option whether

351
00:25:17,180 --> 00:25:22,540
 to offer another non-annexation agreement or whether to annex that property?

352
00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:24,100
 It would be discussed at that time.

353
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:29,820
 That's what occurred in 2020, was council provided direction to allow those extensions.

354
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:33,940
 So that's how we got there, yes.

355
00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:40,500
 And when we look at existing non-annexation agreements, is that primarily property that

356
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:47,380
 the city was thinking about annexing in the past when annexation was a little bit more

357
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:55,460
 easy from a state law perspective, and for various reasons, they elected to do a non-annexation

358
00:25:55,460 --> 00:25:57,460
 agreement instead?

359
00:25:57,460 --> 00:26:00,100
 To the best of my knowledge, that's accurate.

360
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:04,940
 So we did have to offer those non-annexation agreements to properties we were interested

361
00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:07,260
 in annexing rather than just doing so.

362
00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:14,340
 And a lot of them, if I can get to our more current map, are kind of between 20...

363
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:16,620
 Right around 2005 is a good example.

364
00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:23,060
 They fall in these kind of little donut holes, it's not terribly clear here, but some along

365
00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:27,900
 like Bonnie Bray or even further up north where you just have these pockets or areas

366
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:33,060
 of the city where they're surrounded by city limits, but you still have ETJ in that area.

367
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:36,580
 So that's where many of those fall.

368
00:26:36,580 --> 00:26:40,020
 Out west of 35, there's a handful as well.

369
00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:41,020
 Okay.

370
00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:42,460
 Any other questions?

371
00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:48,500
 Commissioner McDade, sorry.

372
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:55,620
 I was wondering when you say the municipal service agreements that you have, do you automatically

373
00:26:55,620 --> 00:27:03,100
 start or at some date start bringing in city services such as water lines and wastewater

374
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:04,500
 and things like that?

375
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,300
 That's part of it?

376
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:07,300
 Yeah.

377
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:14,900
 So some are effective pretty quickly, things like being able to access a library as a resident.

378
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,020
 Annexations are effective immediately.

379
00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:20,780
 The other ones that, no, there's not a built in timeline for when those services do need

380
00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:22,660
 to be extended.

381
00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:26,960
 In the cases of many of the non-annexation agreements that we do see choosing to come

382
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,180
 into the city, it is for development purposes.

383
00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:36,400
 And so that does tend to move rather relatively quickly because they're interested in making

384
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,060
 sure they have services for that development purpose.

385
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:44,460
 But there's no set timeline of like now we bring in the water.

386
00:27:44,460 --> 00:27:52,660
 Thank you.

387
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:56,380
 Anything else from the commission?

388
00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:57,380
 No?

389
00:27:57,380 --> 00:27:58,380
 Okay.

390
00:27:58,380 --> 00:27:59,380
 Thank you very much.

391
00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:03,100
 It's great to see one of these and learn a few new things.

392
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:04,100
 Thank you.

393
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:06,940
 And I have to apologize to Julie.

394
00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:15,020
 I apparently did not flip over to the last page and I skipped over our last public hearing,

395
00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:23,380
 which is very important as all of them are, item 5C, Z250007.

396
00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:26,460
 So let's go through that before we go to our other work session.

397
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:27,460
 My apologies.

398
00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:28,460
 That is okay.

399
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:35,020
 I'm Julie Wyatt and I'm presenting Z250007.

400
00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:41,140
 I have a full presentation for the regular meeting, but just as a summary, the request

401
00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:46,380
 is to rezone the property from R2 district to mixed use neighborhood district.

402
00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:54,340
 It's about 1.09 acres and the property is located on the north side of West University,

403
00:28:54,340 --> 00:29:01,940
 on the west side of town and you can kind of see the location here outlined in yellow.

404
00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:08,060
 The purpose is to reestablish a previous retail use in an existing commercial building.

405
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:13,660
 That retail use was actually -- it's funny that Angie talked about annexation today because

406
00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:18,120
 the retail use was established prior to the property being annexed and the property was

407
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:24,440
 annexed in 1974 as part of a strip annexation down university.

408
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,420
 So that retail use was established in the early '70s.

409
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:35,220
 It ceased in 2023 and so the property owner would like to bring back that commercial use.

410
00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:39,300
 The proposal is consistent with the future land use map as well as the overall goals

411
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:43,900
 of the comprehensive plan and so staff is recommending approval as it complies with

412
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:44,900
 the criteria.

413
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:46,860
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

414
00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:52,100
 The applicant will be here this evening as well.

415
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:55,220
 >> Any questions?

416
00:29:55,220 --> 00:30:01,940
 I guess I just have one probably brief.

417
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:08,180
 It's not terribly often that we see a new zoning request for MN along a seven lane,

418
00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:09,980
 60 mile an hour highway.

419
00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:15,820
 Can you explain to me why MN instead of SC for instance?

420
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:22,780
 >> So that is something we actually talked about in staff and MN in this case allows

421
00:30:22,780 --> 00:30:27,940
 the property to develop in a manner that would be a little more compatible with the adjacent

422
00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:34,580
 residential because you can see maybe on your screen that there are homes behind it.

423
00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:41,660
 And so we want to make sure that there's compatible uses adjacent to the property.

424
00:30:41,660 --> 00:30:48,380
 And that development scale in MN, the permitted uses is more consistent with what we see.

425
00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:53,860
 You may also, if you've looked up and down University, this pattern is actually repeated

426
00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:55,580
 several times.

427
00:30:55,580 --> 00:31:02,860
 There are other parts of the city that where a residential neighborhood, the gateway to

428
00:31:02,860 --> 00:31:05,380
 that neighborhood is off of University.

429
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:14,380
 And so instead of having that SC zoning with more of those auto oriented uses, instead

430
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:20,180
 the city has zoned those areas in MN to provide just a little bit better gateway for those

431
00:31:20,180 --> 00:31:21,180
 neighborhoods.

432
00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:26,520
 Ector Street is probably one of those that is most familiar to the commission.

433
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,520
 So that's why.

434
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:28,520
 >> Okay.

435
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,520
 Thank you.

436
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,520
 >> You bet.

437
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,540
 Any other questions?

438
00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:39,660
 Yeah, Commissioner McDuff.

439
00:31:39,660 --> 00:31:42,700
 >> Just a comment, Ms. Julia, I'm glad to see this done, when I'm driving to Decatur,

440
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:46,900
 I often look to my right and think, what are we doing with this?

441
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:51,740
 And over time, so this is pleasing to me.

442
00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:54,700
 >> Thank you.

443
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:55,980
 >> Certainly.

444
00:31:55,980 --> 00:31:59,060
 Any other questions?

445
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:00,060
 Seeing none.

446
00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:03,820
 I'm glad to see you at the public hearing.

447
00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:10,820
 Now we can go to the work session item 3A.

448
00:32:10,820 --> 00:32:16,320
 Receive a report, hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the Southeast Denton

449
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,460
 residential and height overlay districts.

450
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:19,460
 >> All right.

451
00:32:19,460 --> 00:32:20,460
 Good evening.

452
00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:21,460
 Julie Wyatt.

453
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:25,520
 And I am presenting the Southeast Denton, our work session on what we've been working

454
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,100
 on for the implementation of the Southeast Denton area plan.

455
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:34,660
 So this is the residential and height overlay districts.

456
00:32:34,660 --> 00:32:39,100
 The purpose, this is going to kind of follow what you saw with Mia's presentation most

457
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:40,100
 recently.

458
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:44,780
 The purpose is to introduce these overlay districts that we've been working on, the

459
00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:47,200
 residential and the height.

460
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,660
 And then also get your feedback to see if we're, you believe we're on the right track,

461
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:54,780
 if there's anything we've missed.

462
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:58,460
 So we're first going to just have a quick recap on the area plan.

463
00:32:58,460 --> 00:33:01,420
 Another quick recap on overlay districts.

464
00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:06,620
 What we've heard from the community regarding overlay conditions and then what the existing

465
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:08,300
 conditions are.

466
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:13,240
 And then we'll get into the nitty gritty on the overlay districts and then finally discussion.

467
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,500
 So first just to recap, I know you all have heard this before, but the Southeast Denton

468
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,220
 area plan was adopted last July.

469
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:25,860
 By the numbers, we had over 40 community engagement activities and that created six goals for

470
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:27,300
 Southeast Denton.

471
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:31,820
 The one that is most related to what we're talking about tonight is the strength in neighborhoods

472
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:34,260
 and housing affordability.

473
00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:37,740
 And then in the plan, we have 53 implementation action steps.

474
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:41,180
 So we have a lot to accomplish with the plan.

475
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:46,980
 And this is related to two, action 4.1.1, the create the residential overlay district

476
00:33:46,980 --> 00:33:51,200
 and then the height overlay district.

477
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,060
 As we discussed a couple of weeks ago, an overlay really is just sits on top of the

478
00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:57,780
 zone, the base zoning.

479
00:33:57,780 --> 00:34:02,580
 It can amend some of the permitted uses or development standards in that base zoning

480
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:05,940
 district or it can augment those standards.

481
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:10,020
 So it really just is how it structured.

482
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:15,240
 And these are often a tool used to implement area plans.

483
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:20,860
 So what we're talking about today is embedded within the Southeast Denton community.

484
00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:24,500
 The area in yellow is the residential overlay district.

485
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:28,860
 That is a really large part of the Southeast Denton community and that really encompasses

486
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:31,360
 those residential neighborhoods.

487
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:37,020
 And then we're talking about the height limitation overlay district and that is in blue.

488
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:41,860
 And that is the area between the DCTA and those residential neighborhoods, making sure

489
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:51,700
 that development is compatible and complements the residential area as well in terms of scale.

490
00:34:51,700 --> 00:34:56,500
 Also very tiny on the screen is just to show you where the live work overlay is and how

491
00:34:56,500 --> 00:35:01,860
 these all coordinate together.

492
00:35:01,860 --> 00:35:03,980
 Residential architecture in Southeast Denton.

493
00:35:03,980 --> 00:35:05,760
 So this is kind of where we started with this.

494
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,540
 So we adopted the area plan and then we did a windshield survey of Southeast Denton to

495
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:14,260
 really see what kind of residential architecture is within the community.

496
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:18,840
 And overwhelmingly, the single family homes are one story.

497
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:24,060
 There are some two stories, but overwhelmingly they're one story.

498
00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:27,500
 And there are really five architectural styles you see in Southeast Denton.

499
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:31,340
 You see vernacular architecture, that's kind of traditional home.

500
00:35:31,340 --> 00:35:36,260
 You see bungalows, craftsmen, ranch styles, and then postmodern, which is really referential

501
00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:38,080
 to all those other styles.

502
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,820
 So that is really what we see in Southeast Denton and some of those architectural forms

503
00:35:42,820 --> 00:35:48,260
 are the kinds of things that we want to pull forward in that overlay district.

504
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:52,220
 So after we did the windshield survey, then we went out to the community and we asked

505
00:35:52,220 --> 00:35:57,980
 them at our block party in March, look, here's the kinds of things that we see in Southeast

506
00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:58,980
 Denton.

507
00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:00,980
 Is this what you want to see more of?

508
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:03,140
 And so we asked about the scale.

509
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:09,020
 So the building heights, 88% believe that one story homes fit within Southeast Denton.

510
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:12,740
 77% believe that two story homes fit.

511
00:36:12,740 --> 00:36:16,140
 It goes down substantially with the three story, that 37%.

512
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:20,060
 So that gives us a clue that we probably need to have something about that in the overlay

513
00:36:20,060 --> 00:36:21,060
 district.

514
00:36:21,060 --> 00:36:25,740
 85% believe that front porches or stoops fit within Southeast Denton.

515
00:36:25,740 --> 00:36:30,980
 That really refers back to that bungalow and craftsmen architecture, right?

516
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:35,260
 And then also 76% believe that larger windows are appropriate.

517
00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:43,260
 87% believe that hip roofs, and it shows you it's kind of that pyramid of a roof, fit.

518
00:36:43,260 --> 00:36:48,060
 As well as 71% believe gabled roofs fit, once again, back to that traditional architectural

519
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:49,060
 forms.

520
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:54,100
 And we also just talked to him about how the buildings were placed on the lot.

521
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:59,420
 94% of community members feel that front facing garages are fit and appropriate for Southeast

522
00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:00,420
 Denton.

523
00:37:00,420 --> 00:37:07,580
 63% believe detached garages fit, and we see a lot of detached garages in Southeast Denton.

524
00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:14,220
 63% believe that houses could be located closer to the street on a shallower lot.

525
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:18,940
 And also 63% believe in ADU should not have additional parking.

526
00:37:18,940 --> 00:37:22,060
 So that's what we heard from the community.

527
00:37:22,060 --> 00:37:25,180
 We also looked at existing conditions.

528
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:30,260
 Southeast Denton has some of our most historic neighborhoods within Denton.

529
00:37:30,260 --> 00:37:34,580
 And they are honored with the sign toppers.

530
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:37,740
 So if you've driven through Southeast Denton, you really can locate yourself by looking

531
00:37:37,740 --> 00:37:39,260
 at the street signs.

532
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:44,500
 But we have Solomon Hill, New Quaker, Freedman Town, and Fred Moore School.

533
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,460
 Those were platted in the '20s and '30s.

534
00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:51,580
 And those houses were constructed during that time.

535
00:37:51,580 --> 00:37:56,580
 Lincoln Park, which is yellow on the map, that was platted in the 1960s.

536
00:37:56,580 --> 00:37:59,340
 That's where you're bringing in that ranch style homes, right?

537
00:37:59,340 --> 00:38:04,540
 And then Willow Creek in green, the darker green, that's the '60s to '80s.

538
00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:06,380
 Once again, having those ranch style homes.

539
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:09,580
 Also you get that postmodern architecture in as well.

540
00:38:09,580 --> 00:38:19,060
 So Southeast Denton is really dynamic in that the neighborhoods grew over time.

541
00:38:19,060 --> 00:38:22,620
 And the architecture reflects the styles at those decades.

542
00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:25,500
 So we want to make sure that we honor that.

543
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:27,460
 And then we also have current zoning.

544
00:38:27,460 --> 00:38:31,620
 The primary zoning in Southeast Denton is R3, R4, and R7.

545
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:37,180
 R3 and R4 are really kind of our suburban single-family residential zoning.

546
00:38:37,180 --> 00:38:47,220
 And you can see the primary zoning in R4 in Southeast Denton is that beige color, the R4.

547
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:53,020
 So when we were crafting our proposed language, we really had a framework that we were looking

548
00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:54,020
 at.

549
00:38:54,020 --> 00:38:59,380
 First of all, the residents communicated that they wanted to preserve their existing neighborhood

550
00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:02,900
 character, that look and feel of Southeast Denton.

551
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:07,720
 So that was paramount and most important in our minds.

552
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:12,020
 They were also -- the community members really weren't looking for changes in use.

553
00:39:12,020 --> 00:39:13,700
 They like the single-family neighborhoods.

554
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:17,420
 So the overlay conditions don't have anything to do with use.

555
00:39:17,420 --> 00:39:20,780
 They really are mostly related to design and scale.

556
00:39:20,780 --> 00:39:25,180
 And then we look to that action 4.1.1, the objectives within it.

557
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:30,020
 First to maintain that scaling character, second to foster community investment, and

558
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:33,060
 then third to create livable and inclusive neighborhoods.

559
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:34,740
 So that was all in our mind.

560
00:39:34,740 --> 00:39:39,600
 And we were balancing all of these items, thinking we want to make sure that the overlay

561
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:48,500
 conditions are not so restrictive that it prevents people from maintaining their home

562
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:52,060
 or adding on an addition or building in an infill lot.

563
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:57,820
 We also want to make sure that they're not too permissive where then we get development

564
00:39:57,820 --> 00:39:59,820
 that is not compatible.

565
00:39:59,820 --> 00:40:04,180
 And we want to make sure that we create dynamic places, those livable and inclusive neighborhoods,

566
00:40:04,180 --> 00:40:07,880
 and that the regulations are straightforward and easy to apply.

567
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,460
 So with all that, we'll get started.

568
00:40:11,460 --> 00:40:14,580
 So first we're going to talk about the residential overlay district, and that's that area in

569
00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:16,500
 yellow just to remind you.

570
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:17,500
 Okay.

571
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:19,140
 So the applicability.

572
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:22,740
 This would apply to any new primary or accessory structure.

573
00:40:22,740 --> 00:40:28,140
 And when we're talking about accessory structure, you're talking about maybe a garage that's

574
00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:33,100
 detached or an accessory dwelling unit or a shed.

575
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:38,980
 So this would apply to all new accessory and primary structures.

576
00:40:38,980 --> 00:40:40,660
 Expansions under 50%.

577
00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:44,540
 The proposal would be that they would comply with the height and the roof form regulations,

578
00:40:44,540 --> 00:40:48,820
 and we'll talk about that in a minute, and expansions over 50% that they would comply

579
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:51,100
 with all of those standards.

580
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:52,980
 That's the proposal.

581
00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:59,460
 The dimensional standards, we're not proposing any changes to the minimum lot area.

582
00:40:59,460 --> 00:41:02,780
 So that would remain consistent with the base zoning.

583
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:06,660
 We are proposing a change to that minimum front yard setback.

584
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:13,740
 We did an analysis, and over 300 lots in Southeast Denton are less than 7,000 square feet.

585
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:18,780
 And the minimum lot size in our four district is 7,000 square feet.

586
00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:22,740
 So you could see that there's a little bit of a mismatch there.

587
00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:27,340
 So we are proposing to reduce that front yard setback so that it's a little more consistent

588
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:32,220
 with our seven for those lots less than 7,000 square feet.

589
00:41:32,220 --> 00:41:36,020
 That way somebody can build a home that would meet their family's needs.

590
00:41:36,020 --> 00:41:40,140
 So instead of the 20 foot setback, it would be 10 feet.

591
00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:47,100
 And building height in all of our residential districts citywide is 40 feet.

592
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:49,120
 And that's that R3, R4, and R7.

593
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:55,020
 There's a little bit of MN in this area, and so that would go up to 65 feet if it's not

594
00:41:55,020 --> 00:41:56,660
 adjacent to single family.

595
00:41:56,660 --> 00:42:01,620
 If it's adjacent to single family, it would be capped at 40 feet.

596
00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:03,860
 We are proposing to limit that height.

597
00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:09,380
 And so that for primary structures, so that would be the house, we are proposing to limit

598
00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:11,300
 it to 30 feet.

599
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:16,620
 That would allow a two story home with a pretty pitched roof.

600
00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:22,540
 So still giving the community members flexibility, but also making sure that it isn't out of

601
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:25,060
 scale with the adjacent properties.

602
00:42:25,060 --> 00:42:29,980
 Because remember, the majority of homes in Southeastern are that single story.

603
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:32,900
 And then limiting the accessory structure height to 20 feet.

604
00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,620
 And that would allow about one and a half stories.

605
00:42:36,620 --> 00:42:44,580
 So we are also proposing to modify how that height is measured a little bit from the code.

606
00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:51,220
 Under our current development code for a structure with a pitched roof, that height is measured

607
00:42:51,220 --> 00:42:59,060
 from the finished grade to the midpoint of that pitched roof, the gable.

608
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:06,580
 We are proposing that be modified so that the height would be measured from the finished

609
00:43:06,580 --> 00:43:10,440
 grade to the top portion of the roof.

610
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:16,500
 So that we're very clear on what heights would be permitted in Southeastern.

611
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:20,180
 We're also proposing some changes to the design standards.

612
00:43:20,180 --> 00:43:27,180
 And they're related to the front entry, the windows and doors, the roof forms, and then

613
00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:29,140
 the building mass and architecture.

614
00:43:29,140 --> 00:43:34,620
 So for front entries, while the Denton Development Code requires that single family homes face

615
00:43:34,620 --> 00:43:39,060
 the street and be connected to the street, it doesn't require any specific treatment

616
00:43:39,060 --> 00:43:40,060
 to that.

617
00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:48,260
 We are proposing, given the tradition of the bungalow and craftsman architecture in Southeast

618
00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:55,260
 Denton, that either a front porch or a stoop would be required on any new residential development.

619
00:43:55,260 --> 00:43:57,140
 We want to make sure that they're kind of usable.

620
00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:02,020
 So we're proposing a minimum width of that front porch of 25% of the ground floor front

621
00:44:02,020 --> 00:44:05,740
 facade width and then a minimum depth of four feet.

622
00:44:05,740 --> 00:44:10,820
 And then we want those columns, the covered porch, the columns to be a decorative feature.

623
00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:17,020
 Or the stoop to be 24 square feet in minimum size, once again usable.

624
00:44:17,020 --> 00:44:20,020
 It should be elevated seven inches above the finished grade.

625
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:23,380
 So it could either be, we want to make sure that if the accessibility, it could either

626
00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:28,140
 be, you know, a slope or it could be a step.

627
00:44:28,140 --> 00:44:33,180
 We're also proposing some changes to the minimum requirements in Denton for transparency or

628
00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:34,180
 windows.

629
00:44:34,180 --> 00:44:38,980
 The Denton Development, sorry, windows or doors, the Denton Development Code requires

630
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:48,620
 15% of the front facade have occupied at least 15% of that area by windows and doors.

631
00:44:48,620 --> 00:44:53,720
 We are proposing to up that so that those windows would be oversized in Southeast Denton

632
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:57,060
 to 25% of the front facade.

633
00:44:57,060 --> 00:45:03,860
 And then the Denton Development Code requires that there be trim or the windows be recessed.

634
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:09,860
 We're proposing to get a little more granular on that requiring three and a half inches,

635
00:45:09,860 --> 00:45:12,420
 inch wide trim around the windows.

636
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:17,740
 Once again, harkening back to that craftsman or bungalow architecture.

637
00:45:17,740 --> 00:45:21,900
 Roof form, currently the Denton Development Code allows a variety of roof forms.

638
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:27,740
 You can have, you could have the gabled or, or, or hipped.

639
00:45:27,740 --> 00:45:34,740
 You could also have a flat roof or a mansard roof or, or a shed roof, other similar forms.

640
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:40,420
 We're proposing that only hipped or gabled roofs or a combination thereof would be allowed

641
00:45:40,420 --> 00:45:41,420
 in Southeast Denton.

642
00:45:41,420 --> 00:45:45,540
 But again, it's just more consistent with that look and feel.

643
00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:49,060
 And then finally, building mass and form, this might get a little complicated.

644
00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:54,100
 So I'll try to, I'll try to, if you have any questions, let me know.

645
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:59,180
 So under our current code, we have a list of architectural features that when you build

646
00:45:59,180 --> 00:46:02,820
 a single family home in the city of Denton, you have to pick from that list, you have

647
00:46:02,820 --> 00:46:05,540
 to pick three items.

648
00:46:05,540 --> 00:46:10,140
 And now those items are listed here in this column.

649
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:16,220
 We are proposing, because the other overlay conditions really require some of these things

650
00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:21,900
 on this list already, that we have lengthened that list and said you, you would only have

651
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:26,080
 to provide two because you are, you're doing some of these things.

652
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:33,260
 So, so we are proposing that each property owner for, for new developments would have

653
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:40,460
 either dormers, a projection, which would be like a bay window or a bump out window.

654
00:46:40,460 --> 00:46:45,620
 Split garage doors, where our column or post would divide that single car garage, those

655
00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:51,100
 single car garage doors, providing a little more interest if it's a front facing garage.

656
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:58,060
 A railings or a low wall enclosing the front porch or the stoop, and then multi-pane or

657
00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:08,060
 mission style windows, once again, keeping with that, that historic character of southeastern.

658
00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:10,420
 Any questions on that or should I?

659
00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:15,360
 Sorry, just for clarification, there's lots of terminology.

660
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:23,880
 When you say multi-pane, that's not dual pane windows, that's X number of lights that are

661
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,620
 separated by millwork, is that correct?

662
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:27,620
 Yes.

663
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:29,500
 So, it would be like a window like here.

664
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:30,500
 Got it.

665
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:31,500
 Thank you.

666
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:32,500
 You got it.

667
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:36,860
 I have a question since you stopped and asked if there's any questions, if you can go back

668
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:41,420
 to that screen, no, the one before, yes.

669
00:47:41,420 --> 00:47:49,040
 So right now, you are requiring only three of those building mass informed, those little

670
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,540
 options.

671
00:47:51,540 --> 00:47:55,860
 You're proposing to increase the number of options, but reduce the number that they have

672
00:47:55,860 --> 00:47:56,860
 to do.

673
00:47:56,860 --> 00:47:59,180
 Does that still require three?

674
00:47:59,180 --> 00:48:06,420
 Well, that's because in like the front entry, we're already requiring a front porch with

675
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:13,620
 those decorative columns or that treatment, so one of the items is a covered front porch.

676
00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:19,220
 We're already either requiring that or that stoop, so because it's already being required,

677
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:23,380
 we felt like we're already getting some of that architectural interest.

678
00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:29,300
 Now, if the commission feels like that is an insufficient number, that's the kind of

679
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:31,780
 feedback we need to get.

680
00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:39,900
 I mean, personally, I feel you've given them more options, still require them to do three.

681
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:40,900
 That's just personal.

682
00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:44,780
 I guess, Julie, can you clarify, so the fact that we're already requiring the stoop or

683
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:50,380
 I'm sorry, the front porch, so there's one item and then we're proposing that you have

684
00:48:50,380 --> 00:48:54,460
 to then choose two out of the list on the right, so as a result, we're still getting

685
00:48:54,460 --> 00:48:57,380
 the three that would normally show up under the current standards.

686
00:48:57,380 --> 00:48:59,900
 So really, it's not a difference.

687
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:05,860
 It's just we've said one of those items is going to have to be a porch or a stoop.

688
00:49:05,860 --> 00:49:11,060
 No choice on that one, and then you get the flexibility to choose from the other two items.

689
00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:13,980
 So again, hence why we're still getting the three.

690
00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:14,980
 Yes.

691
00:49:14,980 --> 00:49:15,980
 Okay.

692
00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:20,740
 All right.

693
00:49:20,740 --> 00:49:26,460
 Can I ask for clarification on that?

694
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:33,980
 So are you saying the items in blue are essentially required?

695
00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:34,980
 Right here?

696
00:49:34,980 --> 00:49:35,980
 Uh-huh.

697
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:40,220
 Well, the gables would already be required if they choose it.

698
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:44,820
 They would already be on the house if they chose a gable roof because remember, the overlay

699
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,980
 conditions are requiring either a hip or a gabled roof.

700
00:49:48,980 --> 00:49:57,940
 We are not, with the requirement for a front porch, a recessed entry would not be allowed

701
00:49:57,940 --> 00:50:01,140
 in Southeastern for new construction.

702
00:50:01,140 --> 00:50:08,220
 The covered front porch, that's where we're talking about that stoop or the porch.

703
00:50:08,220 --> 00:50:12,900
 A cupola, they could provide that if that's something that they would want to.

704
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:15,580
 It's not something we see often in Southeast Denton.

705
00:50:15,580 --> 00:50:19,580
 So it felt like it wasn't something that we wanted to encourage.

706
00:50:19,580 --> 00:50:22,820
 Architecture pillars or posts, that would be required if you're going to do a front

707
00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:26,140
 porch instead of the stoop.

708
00:50:26,140 --> 00:50:31,220
 So those things are already kind of included within that overlay, which I think Tina said

709
00:50:31,220 --> 00:50:32,620
 much better than me.

710
00:50:32,620 --> 00:50:34,100
 So some of them are required.

711
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:36,860
 Some of them are like the cupola would not.

712
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:43,860
 But to me, you've taken out cupolas, you have the roof and the front porch, they're doing

713
00:50:43,860 --> 00:50:47,580
 that and obviously the pillar comes with the front porch.

714
00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:52,220
 Dormers are staying, the bay window is staying, you've added three more.

715
00:50:52,220 --> 00:51:01,900
 That's why I feel like they've now got one, two, three, four, five things to pick from.

716
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:03,540
 I feel like do three.

717
00:51:03,540 --> 00:51:10,700
 I mean, that's just, if we're trying to enhance and stay with the bungalow, the craftsman,

718
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:13,540
 the ranch style, that's what's going to do it.

719
00:51:13,540 --> 00:51:16,660
 That's what's going to create the charm of the community.

720
00:51:16,660 --> 00:51:23,780
 I have another question, too, if we're ready to move on.

721
00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:24,780
 Sure.

722
00:51:24,780 --> 00:51:25,780
 Yeah, go ahead.

723
00:51:25,780 --> 00:51:31,420
 At the event that you held to get the citizen feedback, how much participation did you get?

724
00:51:31,420 --> 00:51:37,820
 So for the block party, we had over 100 participants come to the block party.

725
00:51:37,820 --> 00:51:40,980
 So we had quite a few at the block party.

726
00:51:40,980 --> 00:51:46,140
 We were recently, and we'll go over this in just a minute, we were recently in Juneteenth.

727
00:51:46,140 --> 00:51:48,740
 We did not get a lot of feedback at Juneteenth.

728
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:52,180
 We went to Sedna on Monday night, we got some feedback.

729
00:51:52,180 --> 00:51:57,460
 And then Mia and I are going to be doing some additional outreach, going to doing some pop

730
00:51:57,460 --> 00:52:00,040
 up events, going to Project Hope.

731
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,780
 So making sure that we validate the information and that we got it right.

732
00:52:05,780 --> 00:52:08,140
 We want to make sure we got it right.

733
00:52:08,140 --> 00:52:09,140
 Okay.

734
00:52:09,140 --> 00:52:10,140
 Thank you.

735
00:52:10,140 --> 00:52:13,700
 Yeah, go ahead.

736
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:17,540
 So I understand that the feedback was limited based on the participation of the last two

737
00:52:17,540 --> 00:52:18,540
 events.

738
00:52:18,540 --> 00:52:23,260
 But what was the feedback that you received, even though it was, you know, a smaller number?

739
00:52:23,260 --> 00:52:33,220
 So the block party, what we did is ask questions based upon the existing architectural forms.

740
00:52:33,220 --> 00:52:35,900
 What kinds of things do you want to see more of?

741
00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:41,740
 This language is now based upon the results of that survey.

742
00:52:41,740 --> 00:52:47,420
 We are talking to the community about those results now and saying, hey, here's what we're

743
00:52:47,420 --> 00:52:48,420
 proposing.

744
00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:51,540
 Does this -- is this what we heard?

745
00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:54,700
 Do we hear it correctly?

746
00:52:54,700 --> 00:53:01,060
 That's that part we're in right now is we heard those survey results in terms of what

747
00:53:01,060 --> 00:53:04,260
 kind of -- what kind of architectural features would you like to see more of?

748
00:53:04,260 --> 00:53:05,620
 What kind of building scale?

749
00:53:05,620 --> 00:53:13,500
 And now we're crafting that language and we're going back to the community now saying, like,

750
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:14,500
 here's what we heard.

751
00:53:14,500 --> 00:53:16,740
 Does this language adequately capture it?

752
00:53:16,740 --> 00:53:21,180
 So that's the conversations that are happening at the events, like the Juneteenth event?

753
00:53:21,180 --> 00:53:22,180
 Yes, ma'am.

754
00:53:22,180 --> 00:53:23,180
 Okay.

755
00:53:23,180 --> 00:53:24,180
 Okay.

756
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:26,980
 I think we'll probably end up coming back to this slide, but let's go ahead and move

757
00:53:26,980 --> 00:53:27,980
 forward to that.

758
00:53:27,980 --> 00:53:28,980
 All right.

759
00:53:28,980 --> 00:53:29,980
 The next one's easy.

760
00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:30,980
 I promise.

761
00:53:30,980 --> 00:53:35,340
 So the height overlay is really that area in blue, and once again, that's making sure

762
00:53:35,340 --> 00:53:39,400
 we have appropriate transitions.

763
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,540
 And it really is just related to those dimensional standards.

764
00:53:43,540 --> 00:53:49,140
 So there's two zoning districts within that area in blue, the PF, which is public facilities,

765
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:52,560
 that's the City of Denton or county property, and then MN.

766
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:59,180
 PF allows 100 feet, base zoning, MN allows 65 -- up to 65 feet if you're not adjacent

767
00:53:59,180 --> 00:54:02,780
 to single-family zoning or single-family home.

768
00:54:02,780 --> 00:54:08,720
 The proposed overlay district would take that down to 40 feet, and that would allow a more

769
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:17,260
 gentle change in scale from the single-family residential to the DCTA area, balancing those

770
00:54:17,260 --> 00:54:24,060
 needs of those -- of the property owners, the neighborhood, and the kinds of development

771
00:54:24,060 --> 00:54:28,380
 that you would see around a train station.

772
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:34,380
 We're also not proposing to change how those heights are measured, because we anticipate

773
00:54:34,380 --> 00:54:38,900
 more commercial development in this location or one of those uses that would typically

774
00:54:38,900 --> 00:54:40,940
 be found in MN.

775
00:54:40,940 --> 00:54:48,460
 We kept that measurement consistent with how we typically measure commercial heights in

776
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:51,980
 the City of Denton.

777
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:54,500
 So we asked -- we talked about engagement.

778
00:54:54,500 --> 00:55:02,380
 We did -- we had the survey results, those boards that we had at the block party in March,

779
00:55:02,380 --> 00:55:04,980
 and then we were just at Juneteenth.

780
00:55:04,980 --> 00:55:09,020
 We went to Sedna on Monday night, talked to the folks there.

781
00:55:09,020 --> 00:55:14,380
 We're also scheduling intercept surveys at the MLK Junior Center, Recreational Center,

782
00:55:14,380 --> 00:55:19,460
 talking about -- talking to parents as they're picking up their kiddos, Project HOPE and

783
00:55:19,460 --> 00:55:22,100
 American Legion Hall.

784
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:26,980
 Online surveys with Spanish translations, as y'all who went through the journey with

785
00:55:26,980 --> 00:55:33,020
 us know that Southeast Denton is -- the demographics are changing, and that we want to make sure

786
00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:37,340
 we capture voices from all community members, and so we want to make sure we have those

787
00:55:37,340 --> 00:55:39,100
 Spanish translations.

788
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:42,060
 And then also talk to property owners within that height overlay district.

789
00:55:42,060 --> 00:55:45,820
 We want to hear from them as well.

790
00:55:45,820 --> 00:55:52,460
 So with all of that -- I was just going to ask if I can interject something.

791
00:55:52,460 --> 00:55:56,140
 Can you back to your slide on the height overlay district?

792
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:57,820
 So the other -- Julie, correct me if I'm wrong.

793
00:55:57,820 --> 00:56:01,820
 One of the reasons why we settled on the 40 feet is also because with the new development

794
00:56:01,820 --> 00:56:06,340
 that has happened in that area, it meets this requirement, so we wanted to make sure that

795
00:56:06,340 --> 00:56:10,580
 we did not make that development nonconforming.

796
00:56:10,580 --> 00:56:11,580
 Thank you.

797
00:56:11,580 --> 00:56:12,580
 Yes.

798
00:56:12,580 --> 00:56:15,180
 So with that, we've got our questions.

799
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:16,180
 It was in your backup.

800
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:24,580
 We could go one by one or answer questions as they come, and we're going to take notes.

801
00:56:24,580 --> 00:56:28,020
 It's a lot of information.

802
00:56:28,020 --> 00:56:33,140
 I think we'll go one by one once we're ready for direction and feedback.

803
00:56:33,140 --> 00:56:39,340
 Are there any clarification, factual questions that we need in general about the content

804
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:43,380
 before we get there, Commissioner Dyer?

805
00:56:43,380 --> 00:56:46,220
 I have a few questions.

806
00:56:46,220 --> 00:56:47,220
 Okay.

807
00:56:47,220 --> 00:56:57,460
 So looking at the roof height and the max height of the houses, yes.

808
00:56:57,460 --> 00:57:07,140
 So I noticed that for the max height of the building, for R3, R4, and R7, it was the 40

809
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:11,940
 feet, and now you're reducing that to 30 feet.

810
00:57:11,940 --> 00:57:20,020
 And overwhelmingly, from the community responses that you included in the agenda, obviously

811
00:57:20,020 --> 00:57:33,300
 a strong amount, it looks like there was 43 people or targets, 27 of the 43 said no to

812
00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:34,300
 the three stories.

813
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:38,940
 Like they want to keep it single story, which was overwhelming at the 88%, and the two stories

814
00:57:38,940 --> 00:57:40,880
 at 77%.

815
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,540
 So if you're looking at a two-story structure that can only go 30 feet high from the base

816
00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:51,900
 up to the highest point of the roof, what are the ceiling heights looking like on a

817
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:54,920
 first floor and a second floor home?

818
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,040
 So I talk with our building inspections folks because they review a lot of these single

819
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,500
 family and I'm like, I want to make sure I don't kind of that balancing app.

820
00:58:03,500 --> 00:58:09,180
 We don't want to prevent somebody from building a home that meets the needs for their family.

821
00:58:09,180 --> 00:58:15,740
 And I said, on your deepest pitched roofs, two story, what are your typical building

822
00:58:15,740 --> 00:58:16,740
 heights?

823
00:58:16,740 --> 00:58:18,980
 And they said about 25 feet.

824
00:58:18,980 --> 00:58:24,340
 So we felt comfortable in going the 30.

825
00:58:24,340 --> 00:58:30,740
 So once again, allowing that two story home with a pitched roof, but not going so far

826
00:58:30,740 --> 00:58:34,700
 that somebody could build a three story home, because you could get a three story home in

827
00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:36,940
 a 40 foot tall house.

828
00:58:36,940 --> 00:58:43,860
 Okay, then my next question is, and since we're on this screen, you have the minimum

829
00:58:43,860 --> 00:58:45,500
 front yard setback.

830
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:54,860
 So from the front of the house to the street, and on lots smaller than 7,000 feet, you know,

831
00:58:54,860 --> 00:59:02,340
 R3, R4, it was 20 feet, and now you're reducing that to 10 feet.

832
00:59:02,340 --> 00:59:08,780
 And that was one of the things in this residential survey is that, do you want the house closer

833
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:10,740
 to the street?

834
00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:18,700
 And it says only 63%, only 22 of the 30, like only 35 people, you know, responded to that

835
00:59:18,700 --> 00:59:20,980
 particular question.

836
00:59:20,980 --> 00:59:29,380
 And so it's barely more than half like, to me, that's really super close.

837
00:59:29,380 --> 00:59:35,740
 And I know you're trying to maximize the most amount of square footage of a house on a 7,000

838
00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:38,580
 square foot lot.

839
00:59:38,580 --> 00:59:42,100
 But if you're having, and I don't even know what the back of it is, because it doesn't

840
00:59:42,100 --> 00:59:45,540
 really say, you just talk about the front of the yard.

841
00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:52,420
 Like what is the max from the back of a house to the back property line, like 10 feet, like

842
00:59:52,420 --> 00:59:59,340
 that provides a family, you know, if the family's buying it, hardly any yard because you're going

843
00:59:59,340 --> 01:00:04,580
 to have developers that are going to go 10 feet to 10 feet.

844
01:00:04,580 --> 01:00:10,500
 So if we're, if, you know, when you were looking at the goals, some of the goals, I feel like

845
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:17,140
 that doesn't really match up with one of the goals on there.

846
01:00:17,140 --> 01:00:19,620
 So that was one.

847
01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:22,820
 And I can save my questions or I can just get all my questions out of the way, whatever

848
01:00:22,820 --> 01:00:24,460
 the, if the rest of that.

849
01:00:24,460 --> 01:00:25,460
 No, that's fine.

850
01:00:25,460 --> 01:00:31,580
 Do you have any other just, just clarification questions before we really get into details

851
01:00:31,580 --> 01:00:33,080
 of direction of height?

852
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,040
 The rafters in the brackets, I thought it was very interesting.

853
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,860
 How did you show them rafters versus brackets?

854
01:00:40,860 --> 01:00:47,620
 Because of a huge majority when it says exposed rack rafters or brackets, 91% they did not

855
01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:49,100
 want that.

856
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:55,980
 So what are, you know, when I'm kind of curious what your definition of that was, if it's

857
01:00:55,980 --> 01:00:58,900
 what I'm thinking of a definition.

858
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:00,660
 So I was curious about that too.

859
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:05,360
 And so you can see that when you, like, for instance, this is a really good example.

860
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,300
 This is a bracket on a craftsman style home.

861
01:01:08,300 --> 01:01:11,540
 So that we asked, is that what you want to see more of?

862
01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:14,720
 The community was not in favor of that.

863
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,360
 So here's, here's some additional brackets on a, on a rant style home.

864
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:26,180
 And we kind of tried to tease out some of those, those design features that are typically

865
01:01:26,180 --> 01:01:28,580
 found in these architectural styles.

866
01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:29,580
 Did they say why?

867
01:01:29,580 --> 01:01:30,720
 I mean, I just find that interesting.

868
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:37,100
 If you're trying to stick with the, the design of what's already in there and try to match

869
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:38,100
 it and enhance it.

870
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:44,860
 I, I just, I, I found that very interesting, which is why I was curious if they, you know,

871
01:01:44,860 --> 01:01:48,500
 if it, how it was being communicated of what that looked like.

872
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:54,820
 Julie, if memory serves me correctly on our boards that we had at the block party, our

873
01:01:54,820 --> 01:02:00,380
 boards showed images of existing residential structures that were in Southeast Denton that

874
01:02:00,380 --> 01:02:01,380
 illustrated that.

875
01:02:01,380 --> 01:02:05,140
 Cause I, I can think of, I think I was at that board and I would like point it out and

876
01:02:05,140 --> 01:02:11,580
 explain to people, but we, we had pictures of homes in Southeast Denton that illustrated

877
01:02:11,580 --> 01:02:18,260
 what those exposed rafters look like in one of the photos that I recall actually shows

878
01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:26,420
 a series of rafters down the entire length of, of the, of the home underneath what that

879
01:02:26,420 --> 01:02:27,780
 would be, what the Eve.

880
01:02:27,780 --> 01:02:32,020
 So it's, you know, while on that craftsman that Julie pointed out in the middle, I guess

881
01:02:32,020 --> 01:02:34,020
 the fourth image down next one over.

882
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:35,020
 Yeah.

883
01:02:35,020 --> 01:02:39,260
 You know, some might say that might be attractive the way those three rafters are exposed, but

884
01:02:39,260 --> 01:02:43,980
 I recall one of, one of our other photos though, showed more of the side and when you see all

885
01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:49,460
 of those rafters, it kind of reminds you probably more of a dated, a very dated structure and,

886
01:02:49,460 --> 01:02:53,460
 and people were not, were not liking that, that, that feature.

887
01:02:53,460 --> 01:02:59,220
 So did the community just kind of say we want more clean lines in the facades of the houses?

888
01:02:59,220 --> 01:03:05,220
 They didn't give further explanation, it just wasn't something that they were interested

889
01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:06,220
 in seeing more of.

890
01:03:06,220 --> 01:03:10,780
 You know, our boards had a series of images on them and then we gave people dots and told

891
01:03:10,780 --> 01:03:14,780
 them, I can't remember if they were green and red dots or what colors we use, but use

892
01:03:14,780 --> 01:03:21,380
 this color dot of the images that you like and put dots, this color dots on what you

893
01:03:21,380 --> 01:03:22,380
 don't like.

894
01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:27,080
 And so when doing these visual preference exercises, I mean, we, we worked to have multiple

895
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:32,500
 different images there to give people a choice to understand what they liked and didn't like.

896
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:35,340
 So that's the total dots on this document that you have.

897
01:03:35,340 --> 01:03:36,340
 Okay.

898
01:03:36,340 --> 01:03:37,340
 That makes sense.

899
01:03:37,340 --> 01:03:38,340
 Yeah.

900
01:03:38,340 --> 01:03:41,460
 We were trying to make, you know, when doing a block party event and having that number

901
01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:47,380
 of people in attendance, it's trying to use engagement methods that help achieve us being

902
01:03:47,380 --> 01:03:51,500
 able to get the feedback in the community using some simple techniques.

903
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:55,260
 Visual preference boards are a good way to help the community understand, especially

904
01:03:55,260 --> 01:03:58,540
 when we're talking technical terms from an architectural standpoint.

905
01:03:58,540 --> 01:04:00,180
 So that's why we provided those images.

906
01:04:00,180 --> 01:04:04,540
 We had staff there to be able to help explain them and then ask them to tell us what you

907
01:04:04,540 --> 01:04:09,500
 like and don't like in those particular exercises it was, it was with the dots.

908
01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:14,380
 Very interesting that the having a front porch or a stoop that garnered the most amount of

909
01:04:14,380 --> 01:04:17,820
 dots at 62.

910
01:04:17,820 --> 01:04:21,700
 People really liked that aspect.

911
01:04:21,700 --> 01:04:24,220
 So, okay.

912
01:04:24,220 --> 01:04:25,220
 Commissioner Riggs.

913
01:04:25,220 --> 01:04:30,860
 So, so kind of following up to Commissioner Dyer's comment on that, since so many of them

914
01:04:30,860 --> 01:04:37,420
 did respond and with 85% that they wanted a covered front porch, why is that not just

915
01:04:37,420 --> 01:04:38,420
 a requirement?

916
01:04:38,420 --> 01:04:42,980
 Because we say you have to have a stoop or a porch but not necessarily covered.

917
01:04:42,980 --> 01:04:49,260
 You know, it's and we could certainly make modifications to that.

918
01:04:49,260 --> 01:04:54,940
 Really just trying to make sure that that homes have that, that, that relationship to

919
01:04:54,940 --> 01:05:02,100
 the street, the, that usable front porch or front entryway where, where, where it creates

920
01:05:02,100 --> 01:05:05,460
 that dynamic front, front engagement.

921
01:05:05,460 --> 01:05:15,700
 So you know, our boards did have a stoop as well as a front porch and so we are just trying

922
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:21,740
 to capture as much flexibility and, and again, that's where we're looking at balancing because

923
01:05:21,740 --> 01:05:28,220
 we want to make sure that there's flexibility so that it can accommodate different tastes

924
01:05:28,220 --> 01:05:35,820
 or different price points and, and so trying to, trying to have that flexibility but still

925
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:37,780
 get the intent of what that is.

926
01:05:37,780 --> 01:05:40,300
 Yeah, I think I need to clarify my question.

927
01:05:40,300 --> 01:05:46,380
 So I think, so the way, the way you presented it in your presentation, it was a stoop or

928
01:05:46,380 --> 01:05:51,660
 a covered front porch and I'm assuming a stoop is basically just a front porch without a

929
01:05:51,660 --> 01:05:52,660
 cover.

930
01:05:52,660 --> 01:05:53,660
 Correct.

931
01:05:53,660 --> 01:05:54,660
 Okay.

932
01:05:54,660 --> 01:05:57,540
 So, so I guess, but in the survey it says covered front porch or stoop.

933
01:05:57,540 --> 01:06:02,140
 So I'm looking at it thinking the way that that's where it is, whether it's a porch

934
01:06:02,140 --> 01:06:03,140
 or stoop to be covered.

935
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:06,740
 And so I guess maybe that's just my naivete on reading it.

936
01:06:06,740 --> 01:06:10,620
 So thank you.

937
01:06:10,620 --> 01:06:15,820
 So I've got sort of a general question and then I want to make sure we get through the

938
01:06:15,820 --> 01:06:18,940
 detailed questions.

939
01:06:18,940 --> 01:06:26,100
 I'm trying to understand the, as you talked at the beginning, balancing the different

940
01:06:26,100 --> 01:06:34,900
 priority or goals, right, of on the one hand, the preserving the neighborhood character,

941
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:39,620
 which I feel like we need to define about 18 times every time we say it, as far as whether

942
01:06:39,620 --> 01:06:49,580
 it's building centric or community people centric, because those are two different things,

943
01:06:49,580 --> 01:06:57,380
 as well as being livable and inclusive and remaining affordable, right?

944
01:06:57,380 --> 01:07:09,140
 And then I see that almost all of the suggestions are very well thought out methods of maintaining

945
01:07:09,140 --> 01:07:18,260
 new builds, having architectural similarity with some of the different styles in the neighborhood,

946
01:07:18,260 --> 01:07:21,340
 but they are, they're not zero cost, right?

947
01:07:21,340 --> 01:07:29,460
 So I guess my question is, did the community have any feedback about, yes, we want these

948
01:07:29,460 --> 01:07:34,260
 things even though we understand they cost more?

949
01:07:34,260 --> 01:07:41,140
 So we really didn't get into cost, but affordability is one part of it and on one of our boards

950
01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:47,420
 we talked about, asked the community, hey, would you like to see twin homes in southeastern?

951
01:07:47,420 --> 01:07:56,940
 And that's essentially a duplex that is cut, that the lot line cuts that house in half.

952
01:07:56,940 --> 01:08:05,340
 It's been a really well used intervention in places like Dallas and Fort Worth.

953
01:08:05,340 --> 01:08:16,580
 So you could own your home fee simple, but you kind of get the benefit of the more affordable

954
01:08:16,580 --> 01:08:19,180
 and the community did not like them.

955
01:08:19,180 --> 01:08:26,420
 So it really didn't come into play, that affordability aspect, because we tried to add some of that

956
01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:33,460
 in to see where it was and the community just wasn't interested in that at this time.

957
01:08:33,460 --> 01:08:35,340
 Okay.

958
01:08:35,340 --> 01:08:37,500
 Can you go back to the list of questions?

959
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:38,500
 You bet.

960
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:42,820
 Got to make our way through them before we finish here.

961
01:08:42,820 --> 01:08:46,380
 Yeah, why don't we do that?

962
01:08:46,380 --> 01:08:53,460
 Let's take two minutes, try to grab food quickly and then those of us who are not chewing can

963
01:08:53,460 --> 01:08:58,740
 offer some directions on one through six as we continue before we reconvene.

964
01:08:58,740 --> 01:09:06,060
 So two minute recess, we'll be back at 6.11 p.m. at 6.09 now.

965
01:09:06,060 --> 01:09:07,060
 Good afternoon.

966
01:09:07,060 --> 01:09:13,500
 At 6.15 p.m. we will reconvene the work session of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

967
01:09:13,500 --> 01:09:19,080
 I think Tina Ferguson has a couple of comments and then we'll continue through the questions.

968
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:20,080
 Thank you, Chair.

969
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,340
 So during the break I was talking with staff.

970
01:09:21,340 --> 01:09:25,540
 So we realize this is an extensive amount of information that we're presenting to you

971
01:09:25,540 --> 01:09:30,300
 this evening and I know we have six questions to be able to get through.

972
01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:35,620
 Given the fact that we also still have additional public engagement scheduled, if the commission

973
01:09:35,620 --> 01:09:40,620
 feels comfortable waiting to provide feedback on these questions until after we've done

974
01:09:40,620 --> 01:09:45,220
 that additional engagement, that's an available option for you all.

975
01:09:45,220 --> 01:09:49,100
 So just kind of reading the tea leaves from the level of questions that were being asked

976
01:09:49,100 --> 01:09:55,000
 earlier, if there's some hesitancy on making decisions related to certain requirements

977
01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:01,260
 associated with new single-family residences being built within this area, again, we're

978
01:10:01,260 --> 01:10:05,220
 happy to go get that additional public feedback and then we could bring this back at your

979
01:10:05,220 --> 01:10:08,540
 meeting in July.

980
01:10:08,540 --> 01:10:09,540
 Thank you.

981
01:10:09,540 --> 01:10:10,540
 Yeah, I think that would be helpful.

982
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:13,300
 There have been a couple of comments to that direction already.

983
01:10:13,300 --> 01:10:19,820
 However, I would like to give everybody an opportunity to say kind of where they are.

984
01:10:19,820 --> 01:10:24,420
 I think given the limited time, this may go smoother if we just have person by person

985
01:10:24,420 --> 01:10:28,180
 instead of question by question since it's a little bit, hey, let's go get some more

986
01:10:28,180 --> 01:10:33,100
 feedback and then come back and make some final determinations.

987
01:10:33,100 --> 01:10:38,140
 It looks like Commissioner McDuff, do you have your thoughts collected yet that you would

988
01:10:38,140 --> 01:10:39,140
 like to offer anything?

989
01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:41,740
 You can just kind of go down the road.

990
01:10:41,740 --> 01:10:47,940
 I was kind of focused on that carbon that we were eating, carbohydrate, where my thoughts

991
01:10:47,940 --> 01:10:53,060
 were, Eric, but anyway, one, I appreciate all this.

992
01:10:53,060 --> 01:10:59,820
 I'd love to see continued feedback in public engagement and Ms. Tina, I do not have an

993
01:10:59,820 --> 01:11:05,060
 issue with waiting after we have some more public engagement.

994
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:07,180
 I appreciate all these.

995
01:11:07,180 --> 01:11:12,500
 I believe the question or the requirements, the two versus, or rather the three versus

996
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:20,700
 the two, I think that they were included in the information prior that we received to

997
01:11:20,700 --> 01:11:22,420
 answer that question.

998
01:11:22,420 --> 01:11:31,420
 So I think if we see also this in, we received the slide deck in the mail, I think that in

999
01:11:31,420 --> 01:11:37,780
 our email that would be useful too and then we could study it at our leisure.

1000
01:11:37,780 --> 01:11:41,500
 Okay, thank you.

1001
01:11:41,500 --> 01:11:44,580
 Commissioner Riggs.

1002
01:11:44,580 --> 01:11:49,420
 So I do think the additional feedback would be helpful, but I can kind of tell you where

1003
01:11:49,420 --> 01:11:55,980
 I stand based on reading through the packet and kind of your questions here.

1004
01:11:55,980 --> 01:12:01,900
 So number one, I'm in agreement with that.

1005
01:12:01,900 --> 01:12:09,460
 Number two, I do share concerns as Commissioner Dyer about if we reduce that front setback

1006
01:12:09,460 --> 01:12:13,680
 that we end up having a lot, nothing but house essentially.

1007
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:19,540
 So maybe ways we can not have that happen.

1008
01:12:19,540 --> 01:12:23,780
 Requirement minimum port sizes for porches or stoops, I think that's a good idea.

1009
01:12:23,780 --> 01:12:31,100
 Does Commissioner Kerr with design centers?

1010
01:12:31,100 --> 01:12:33,380
 I guess I need more time on that one.

1011
01:12:33,380 --> 01:12:42,620
 And then number five, the height, you made a comment during your presentation that it

1012
01:12:42,620 --> 01:12:51,180
 was one and a half stories, but they can get two full stories in with, and maybe I misheard

1013
01:12:51,180 --> 01:12:52,180
 you too.

1014
01:12:52,180 --> 01:12:54,700
 No, it's a good question.

1015
01:12:54,700 --> 01:13:01,500
 The primary structure as proposed would be 30 feet, which would allow for two stories.

1016
01:13:01,500 --> 01:13:05,540
 The accessory structure is 20 feet, which would be about one and a half stories.

1017
01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:10,020
 So it would require the accessory structures to be physically smaller.

1018
01:13:10,020 --> 01:13:15,620
 Okay, then I'm in agreement with that.

1019
01:13:15,620 --> 01:13:26,780
 And then I think feedback we can comment on, I can comment on six once we have more feedback,

1020
01:13:26,780 --> 01:13:27,780
 I think.

1021
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:33,900
 That's kind of my thoughts.

1022
01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:36,280
 Commissioner McDade.

1023
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:42,620
 In general, I would like to hear some additional feedback from the neighborhood based on what

1024
01:13:42,620 --> 01:13:45,860
 you're proposing and what you're coming up with.

1025
01:13:45,860 --> 01:13:51,980
 I'm a little bit confused about the options that they get to pick and choose.

1026
01:13:51,980 --> 01:14:00,220
 I think that it may just be me and the way the chart is set up, and maybe you can maybe

1027
01:14:00,220 --> 01:14:03,960
 do a little better job when you go back to the neighborhood and say, based on everything

1028
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:08,160
 you said and what you did, this is what we came up with, but when you have those other

1029
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:12,020
 things over there, it does get a little bit confusing because it looks like, are you requiring

1030
01:14:12,020 --> 01:14:15,940
 more in Southeast End than you require anywhere else?

1031
01:14:15,940 --> 01:14:24,140
 I think your meeting in the park, I forgot where you all called it, with the DOT meeting,

1032
01:14:24,140 --> 01:14:25,140
 I loved it.

1033
01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:26,140
 It was great.

1034
01:14:26,140 --> 01:14:29,940
 You know, if you could go do something like that, I'm not saying doing another one of

1035
01:14:29,940 --> 01:14:30,940
 those.

1036
01:14:30,940 --> 01:14:34,860
 I know that was a lot, but that was certainly very informative, and the community really

1037
01:14:34,860 --> 01:14:38,940
 appreciated and loved participating in it because they felt like they were being part

1038
01:14:38,940 --> 01:14:43,660
 of the plan, but certainly would like to hear back from the community on what you came up

1039
01:14:43,660 --> 01:14:44,660
 with, actually.

1040
01:14:44,660 --> 01:14:45,660
 Thank you.

1041
01:14:45,660 --> 01:14:46,660
 You bet.

1042
01:14:46,660 --> 01:14:47,660
 Commissioner Pedron?

1043
01:14:47,660 --> 01:14:48,660
 My apologies.

1044
01:14:48,660 --> 01:15:04,020
 I'm in favor of waiting to get some more engagement to see if the community provides an additional

1045
01:15:04,020 --> 01:15:05,020
 comment.

1046
01:15:05,020 --> 01:15:09,180
 However, I think for the majority of the proposal, I am in agreement.

1047
01:15:09,180 --> 01:15:14,760
 I'll kind of follow Commissioner Riggs and go through.

1048
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:19,740
 Question one, I would say that I'm in agreement with question one.

1049
01:15:19,740 --> 01:15:25,300
 I am a little hesitant with the setbacks size.

1050
01:15:25,300 --> 01:15:31,140
 I would like to, I'm not sure if the community was specifically given what that could look

1051
01:15:31,140 --> 01:15:33,700
 like and what their feedback is.

1052
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,980
 So some more questions on that.

1053
01:15:35,980 --> 01:15:36,980
 Okay.

1054
01:15:36,980 --> 01:15:43,460
 Yes, I agree with the minimum sizes for porches and stoops, and I also am supportive of getting

1055
01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:49,380
 the option whether to have a covered porch or a stoop and how that can be a communal

1056
01:15:49,380 --> 01:15:52,260
 space for someone's home.

1057
01:15:52,260 --> 01:15:56,160
 Let's see, does the commission concur?

1058
01:15:56,160 --> 01:16:02,940
 I think that what has been proposed was good to kind of keep in order with what is already

1059
01:16:02,940 --> 01:16:05,420
 existing within the community.

1060
01:16:05,420 --> 01:16:10,580
 Not entirely confident in agreeing with that one just yet, but I do think that the due

1061
01:16:10,580 --> 01:16:17,420
 diligence was taken to kind of meet more of that visual standard.

1062
01:16:17,420 --> 01:16:23,100
 I would like to know though what the community thinks about affordability, because I think

1063
01:16:23,100 --> 01:16:28,820
 it was briefly touched upon during the conversation that those conversations haven't necessarily

1064
01:16:28,820 --> 01:16:33,380
 really taken place with affordability, and I think it could definitely sway what their

1065
01:16:33,380 --> 01:16:37,420
 preferences may or may not be.

1066
01:16:37,420 --> 01:16:42,800
 Height limitations, I would agree with that, and then are there any items, again going

1067
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:51,060
 back to affordability being a big one, because if it's the option of having a home, being

1068
01:16:51,060 --> 01:16:57,080
 able to afford a home with all the restrictions or not, then I wonder what they would choose.

1069
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:03,140
 I think that there was some conversation regarding the two requirements over the three requirements.

1070
01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:08,960
 I'm in favor of keeping it to two additional requirements, since the stoop or the porch

1071
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:16,180
 is already considered a required feature, again based on affordability and then just

1072
01:17:16,180 --> 01:17:20,260
 flexibility and just taste and opinion.

1073
01:17:20,260 --> 01:17:21,260
 Okay.

1074
01:17:21,260 --> 01:17:22,260
 Thank you.

1075
01:17:22,260 --> 01:17:26,460
 Commissioner Dyer.

1076
01:17:26,460 --> 01:17:31,100
 I'm in agreement with what my fellow commissioners have said about, it would be really nice to

1077
01:17:31,100 --> 01:17:40,260
 get just a little bit more feedback on some of the things that we had questions about.

1078
01:17:40,260 --> 01:17:44,380
 There's probably more questions on the same things from the community, and definitely

1079
01:17:44,380 --> 01:17:51,020
 with the affordability factor, I'll kind of skip down to number six.

1080
01:17:51,020 --> 01:17:57,460
 When you're looking at that one overlay area that allows for MN and PF, does that mean

1081
01:17:57,460 --> 01:17:59,660
 apartments?

1082
01:17:59,660 --> 01:18:06,040
 How does the community feel about multi-family living in those communities, especially since

1083
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:10,180
 it sounds like most of it is single-family?

1084
01:18:10,180 --> 01:18:13,260
 I loved your new terminology, you're going to have to share that with me again so I can

1085
01:18:13,260 --> 01:18:17,660
 put it into my memory bank instead of calling it a duplex, what was it called, a split?

1086
01:18:17,660 --> 01:18:18,660
 A twin home.

1087
01:18:18,660 --> 01:18:26,620
 I'm going to use that, a twin home instead of a duplex, but what about two-story town

1088
01:18:26,620 --> 01:18:28,440
 homes?

1089
01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:33,620
 Would that fit in the height requirements?

1090
01:18:33,620 --> 01:18:40,180
 Would it allow for the affordability where I know it's not a twin home, it's not a duplex

1091
01:18:40,180 --> 01:18:50,620
 and they're all attached, but you can build super cute looking town homes that are the

1092
01:18:50,620 --> 01:18:57,220
 bungalow, the craftsman, like you can have the developers create that facade to make

1093
01:18:57,220 --> 01:19:04,500
 it look like it fits in, like it's a 1960s, 1930s style deal, so that's why I skipped

1094
01:19:04,500 --> 01:19:09,800
 to number six, because that was kind of my question is, are we going to allow apartments

1095
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:16,220
 or multi-family apartments, you know, axed out of, you know, out of this plan?

1096
01:19:16,220 --> 01:19:26,740
 But if you go back to the questions, sorry, yes, I mean, yes, I concur with number one,

1097
01:19:26,740 --> 01:19:28,700
 I don't really concur with number two.

1098
01:19:28,700 --> 01:19:35,620
 I feel like once the community understands that they could have 10 feet in the front

1099
01:19:35,620 --> 01:19:40,220
 and 10 feet in the back, I think they're going to be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa," you know,

1100
01:19:40,220 --> 01:19:50,260
 it just makes for a really super big house on a smaller lot, and one of the dots that

1101
01:19:50,260 --> 01:19:56,380
 was kind of a negative was having, you know, the houses close to your neighbors, so those

1102
01:19:56,380 --> 01:20:04,880
 bigger houses, more people saw that as a negative, so I feel like that, if people really understood

1103
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:12,080
 all of that, and maybe they did and they're okay with it, yes, require minimum sizes on

1104
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:18,620
 porch and stoops, and I did like all, you know, the bigger windows and, you know, all

1105
01:20:18,620 --> 01:20:26,140
 the different moldings and stuff in it, and then the proposed height limitations, yes,

1106
01:20:26,140 --> 01:20:33,300
 as long as we're not looking at like, you know, super small ceiling heights on first

1107
01:20:33,300 --> 01:20:40,220
 story and second story, you know, on the first and second story floors of a second story

1108
01:20:40,220 --> 01:20:41,220
 house.

1109
01:20:41,220 --> 01:20:42,220
 Right.

1110
01:20:42,220 --> 01:20:43,220
 If that makes sense.

1111
01:20:43,220 --> 01:20:44,220
 Yes.

1112
01:20:44,220 --> 01:20:45,220
 Yes.

1113
01:20:45,220 --> 01:20:46,220
 We can verify that again.

1114
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:47,220
 Okay.

1115
01:20:47,220 --> 01:20:48,220
 Just make sure.

1116
01:20:48,220 --> 01:20:49,220
 Yeah.

1117
01:20:49,220 --> 01:20:50,220
 Yeah.

1118
01:20:50,220 --> 01:20:51,220
 Thank you.

1119
01:20:51,220 --> 01:20:54,420
 I'll be, hopefully, brief.

1120
01:20:54,420 --> 01:21:02,500
 I think I'll lump together a lot of the aesthetic suggestions as great ideas to make the buildings

1121
01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:08,180
 fit in with the existing neighborhood that costs money, and so we just need to be very

1122
01:21:08,180 --> 01:21:15,380
 clear with the community that, hey, look, if this is the way we want it to look, then

1123
01:21:15,380 --> 01:21:24,540
 you're going to see a different type of income individual buying new houses in this neighborhood.

1124
01:21:24,540 --> 01:21:25,540
 Okay.

1125
01:21:25,540 --> 01:21:30,260
 And if that's not your desire, then here are a menu of other things that we can still

1126
01:21:30,260 --> 01:21:43,280
 get the increased quality and architecture that you seek while allowing or encouraging

1127
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,100
 more affordable options, right?

1128
01:21:46,100 --> 01:21:48,220
 Maybe that's not the twin home if they don't like that.

1129
01:21:48,220 --> 01:21:52,700
 Maybe it's townhomes, maybe it's smaller lots, maybe it's, I don't know.

1130
01:21:52,700 --> 01:21:57,100
 You guys are more creative than I am, excuse me.

1131
01:21:57,100 --> 01:22:04,340
 And then just a couple kind of where I am comments outside of that.

1132
01:22:04,340 --> 01:22:14,740
 The height measuring and 20 versus 30 feet and what that means, it feels very confusing

1133
01:22:14,740 --> 01:22:15,740
 to me.

1134
01:22:15,740 --> 01:22:21,420
 Is there a reason why we can't just say two stories on the main house and whatever it

1135
01:22:21,420 --> 01:22:23,100
 is on accessory structures?

1136
01:22:23,100 --> 01:22:31,580
 I'm worried when we have restrictive height limits that it's going to encourage non-ideal

1137
01:22:31,580 --> 01:22:37,020
 architecture, which is what we're trying to get away from it, if that makes sense.

1138
01:22:37,020 --> 01:22:43,020
 And then lastly, on the height overlay, and this is probably a discussion that all of

1139
01:22:43,020 --> 01:22:49,620
 us will be a little bit more aware of when it comes back after some feedback, I'm concerned

1140
01:22:49,620 --> 01:22:54,860
 if we message it to the community as we're going to put a 40 foot height limit here and

1141
01:22:54,860 --> 01:23:00,260
 then SB 840 comes in and once we get all this stuff implemented three or four years from

1142
01:23:00,260 --> 01:23:04,460
 now, we can't enforce that and it's 45 feet.

1143
01:23:04,460 --> 01:23:07,740
 That's a messaging problem, if you will.

1144
01:23:07,740 --> 01:23:13,860
 So I don't know if 45 feet is a bad goal now, but we need to be clear with the community

1145
01:23:13,860 --> 01:23:14,860
 through this process.

1146
01:23:14,860 --> 01:23:15,860
 Okay.

1147
01:23:15,860 --> 01:23:16,860
 Good.

1148
01:23:16,860 --> 01:23:17,860
 Thank you.

1149
01:23:17,860 --> 01:23:18,860
 Thank you.

1150
01:23:18,860 --> 01:23:19,860
 Commissioner MacDuff.

1151
01:23:19,860 --> 01:23:26,220
 I feel like my comments were intellectually sound as the rest of you all, but I will say

1152
01:23:26,220 --> 01:23:32,220
 from all this material, what I had circled was on the building heights and the folks

1153
01:23:32,220 --> 01:23:37,500
 not wanting the three stories, concerned about that, out of everything.

1154
01:23:37,500 --> 01:23:41,580
 It seems to be one of the biggest concerns with the community.

1155
01:23:41,580 --> 01:23:46,540
 I don't know if we had talked about the price points, Ms. Julie, as you said, the price

1156
01:23:46,540 --> 01:23:53,220
 points, so the affordability, but this that was shared was the stories, three stories.

1157
01:23:53,220 --> 01:23:54,220
 Okay.

1158
01:23:54,220 --> 01:23:55,220
 Yeah.

1159
01:23:55,220 --> 01:24:00,140
 And that kind of go along with Commissioner MacDuff, that's why I asked about the apartments

1160
01:24:00,140 --> 01:24:07,100
 because if they don't want three stories, I'm going to assume they don't want apartments.

1161
01:24:07,100 --> 01:24:13,140
 So remember, the overlay would not change as proposed, doesn't make any changes to the

1162
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:14,340
 permitted uses.

1163
01:24:14,340 --> 01:24:23,060
 So in that residential area, it's already zoned, the R4 and R3, there's a little bit

1164
01:24:23,060 --> 01:24:28,020
 of R7 on the south side, you can see right here, that would require a specific use permit

1165
01:24:28,020 --> 01:24:33,500
 for multifamily, but multifamily, oh, there's a little bit of R4 here on Prairie as well.

1166
01:24:33,500 --> 01:24:39,140
 R4 and R3 don't permit multifamily, so it would not introduce that use.

1167
01:24:39,140 --> 01:24:40,140
 Right.

1168
01:24:40,140 --> 01:24:41,140
 And just kind of piggyback on that.

1169
01:24:41,140 --> 01:24:43,940
 Because again, one of the clear messages that we heard from the community when we did this

1170
01:24:43,940 --> 01:24:48,940
 area plan is they want to keep their existing neighborhood the way it is today, right?

1171
01:24:48,940 --> 01:24:54,780
 So they're concerned about new construction coming in and being disruptive to the neighborhood.

1172
01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:59,340
 So that's why we were very specific to not change the base zoning to make sure that the

1173
01:24:59,340 --> 01:25:03,340
 townhome and the multifamily would not be able to be developed.

1174
01:25:03,340 --> 01:25:06,700
 I believe townhomes, are they allowed in R7 by right?

1175
01:25:06,700 --> 01:25:09,500
 R7, R4, they require specific use permit.

1176
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:10,500
 Okay.

1177
01:25:10,500 --> 01:25:14,180
 So that limited area of R7 is, I would say, is more on the fringe of the neighborhood.

1178
01:25:14,180 --> 01:25:17,220
 So to Julie's point, we would not be changing any of that.

1179
01:25:17,220 --> 01:25:21,300
 So any of this conversation about increasing allowing townhome development or multifamily

1180
01:25:21,300 --> 01:25:26,580
 more interior to the neighborhood, in my opinion, that's not on the table for discussion because

1181
01:25:26,580 --> 01:25:35,140
 the neighborhood specifically told us they were not interested in that.

1182
01:25:35,140 --> 01:25:42,180
 Just following back up on the comment about the front yard setback, so I guess there's

1183
01:25:42,180 --> 01:25:46,380
 a maximum building size that can go on the lot.

1184
01:25:46,380 --> 01:25:48,180
 Correct.

1185
01:25:48,180 --> 01:25:51,900
 Maybe when you go back out to the community, you can kind of show what that would end up

1186
01:25:51,900 --> 01:25:52,900
 looking like.

1187
01:25:52,900 --> 01:25:53,900
 Okay.

1188
01:25:53,900 --> 01:25:59,180
 Because otherwise, to Commissioner Dyer's point and what I was saying earlier, the thought

1189
01:25:59,180 --> 01:26:02,860
 is then you could have a lot with this all house, but that's really not the case.

1190
01:26:02,860 --> 01:26:08,580
 So how much of a backyard would that be and that kinds of things?

1191
01:26:08,580 --> 01:26:09,580
 Okay.

1192
01:26:09,580 --> 01:26:10,580
 Mr. Dyer.

1193
01:26:10,580 --> 01:26:14,180
 Are you thinking kind of like where you have like a 7,000 square foot lot, kind of like

1194
01:26:14,180 --> 01:26:21,380
 a pre-plat, like a pre-survey, and then you kind of show like how a house could sit on

1195
01:26:21,380 --> 01:26:22,380
 it?

1196
01:26:22,380 --> 01:26:24,740
 What the maximum could be on that lot?

1197
01:26:24,740 --> 01:26:25,740
 Yeah.

1198
01:26:25,740 --> 01:26:29,180
 Essentially, what's the maximum square footage that the house could occupy?

1199
01:26:29,180 --> 01:26:35,940
 Like a house with the front porch and a garage and all that stuff and how that would sit

1200
01:26:35,940 --> 01:26:42,740
 and then do those dots and see one where the setbacks are what they are zoned for now and

1201
01:26:42,740 --> 01:26:49,220
 one for the zone with the 10 foot and the 10 foot and see where those dots land.

1202
01:26:49,220 --> 01:26:51,900
 Well, and I guess I just want to make sure that we're clear.

1203
01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:55,140
 So I know I've heard you say a couple of times the concern regarding somebody building a

1204
01:26:55,140 --> 01:27:00,020
 house 10 foot to 10 foot, but to that point, that building envelope pad, they're not going

1205
01:27:00,020 --> 01:27:02,520
 to be able to maximize that entire building envelope pad.

1206
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:09,140
 So if somebody wanted to build a house that went that full distance, in all likelihood,

1207
01:27:09,140 --> 01:27:13,020
 the entire house is not going to be able to do that because of that maximum lot coverage

1208
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:14,180
 that comes into play.

1209
01:27:14,180 --> 01:27:20,180
 So that's going to restrict that compared to what we see maybe in some other neighborhoods

1210
01:27:20,180 --> 01:27:24,080
 that are being done where builders are truly trying to maximize that building footprint.

1211
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,780
 So if we also need to look at the lot coverage and make sure the lot coverage percentage

1212
01:27:27,780 --> 01:27:32,340
 still tries to address the concern that you have about maximizing that building envelope,

1213
01:27:32,340 --> 01:27:39,500
 I think that's something that we can definitely take a look at also in seeing how we can prevent

1214
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:41,460
 that or minimize that concern.

1215
01:27:41,460 --> 01:27:46,700
 And lastly, I would say there are, I believe, two houses that are under construction or

1216
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:53,180
 probably nearing completion that are on McKinney that are some would say on the north end of

1217
01:27:53,180 --> 01:27:55,580
 the Southeast Denton neighborhood.

1218
01:27:55,580 --> 01:28:00,140
 Take a look at those structures because that's what the community is concerned about is those

1219
01:28:00,140 --> 01:28:04,860
 two houses that are new construction, how they have maximized building footprint, but

1220
01:28:04,860 --> 01:28:11,020
 especially the scale and the overall massing of the structures taking advantage of, you

1221
01:28:11,020 --> 01:28:16,360
 know, our 40 foot height dimension on a gable roof is to the midline, right?

1222
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:17,780
 It's not to the ridge.

1223
01:28:17,780 --> 01:28:21,500
 So trying to mitigate those kinds of concerns that we're seeing there because if that type

1224
01:28:21,500 --> 01:28:25,260
 of housing were to start to be built in Southeast Denton, I know the community would be very

1225
01:28:25,260 --> 01:28:30,180
 concerned about that and concerned about the disruptive nature of it, given the context

1226
01:28:30,180 --> 01:28:33,180
 of the rest of the neighborhood.

1227
01:28:33,180 --> 01:28:35,740
 That's good info.

1228
01:28:35,740 --> 01:28:38,780
 Commissioner McDade.

1229
01:28:38,780 --> 01:28:46,100
 Was there a Southeast Denton neighborhood committee who approved or worked with the city on putting

1230
01:28:46,100 --> 01:28:48,120
 this plan together?

1231
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:49,120
 The area plan?

1232
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:50,940
 Was there a designated committee?

1233
01:28:50,940 --> 01:28:55,780
 So we had a steering committee, and we also spent a lot of time within the community.

1234
01:28:55,780 --> 01:29:04,180
 So that steering committee validated the information that we received from the community throughout

1235
01:29:04,180 --> 01:29:05,940
 the planning process.

1236
01:29:05,940 --> 01:29:10,900
 So have you taken your recommendations back to that specific committee?

1237
01:29:10,900 --> 01:29:17,280
 No, but we could certainly as part of our online survey, we could certainly provide

1238
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:21,220
 it to them to see if they had any additional feedback.

1239
01:29:21,220 --> 01:29:22,220
 Sure.

1240
01:29:22,220 --> 01:29:23,220
 Absolutely.

1241
01:29:23,220 --> 01:29:24,220
 Yeah.

1242
01:29:24,220 --> 01:29:25,220
 Thank you.

1243
01:29:25,220 --> 01:29:26,220
 Great idea.

1244
01:29:26,220 --> 01:29:27,220
 Okay.

1245
01:29:27,220 --> 01:29:28,220
 You're good.

1246
01:29:28,220 --> 01:29:29,220
 Okay.

1247
01:29:29,220 --> 01:29:30,220
 Thank you.

1248
01:29:30,220 --> 01:29:32,700
 I'm sorry we ran over, but I think this was very helpful.

1249
01:29:32,700 --> 01:29:33,700
 It was.

1250
01:29:33,700 --> 01:29:34,700
 Yeah.

1251
01:29:34,700 --> 01:29:37,620
 I'm looking forward to seeing what this becomes, so thank you.

1252
01:29:37,620 --> 01:29:38,620
 Okay.

1253
01:29:38,620 --> 01:29:39,620
 Yes.

1254
01:29:39,620 --> 01:29:44,300
 So just to confirm, so we will do the additional public engagement, and then we will bring

1255
01:29:44,300 --> 01:29:50,260
 this back either at your July meeting or depending upon the events that are scheduled, maybe

1256
01:29:50,260 --> 01:29:53,300
 in August at the latest.

1257
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:54,740
 Okay.

1258
01:29:54,740 --> 01:30:10,060
 And with that, at 636, we will adjourn the work session and reconvene in council chambers.

1259
01:30:10,060 --> 01:30:18,340
 Good evening, at 642 PM on this Wednesday, June 25th, I will call our regular meeting

1260
01:30:18,340 --> 01:30:23,740
 of the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Denton to order.

1261
01:30:23,740 --> 01:30:28,740
 Our first order of business is to stand and say pledge allegiance to the U.S. and Texas

1262
01:30:28,740 --> 01:30:29,740
 flag.

1263
01:30:29,740 --> 01:30:40,560
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

1264
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:49,540
 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

1265
01:30:49,540 --> 01:31:02,060
 I, the member of the Texas flag, pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one nation

1266
01:31:02,060 --> 01:31:03,860
 indivisible.

1267
01:31:03,860 --> 01:31:13,060
 Our next item of business is item 2A, PZ25011, approval of the minutes for both May 28th

1268
01:31:13,060 --> 01:31:14,700
 and June 11th.

1269
01:31:14,700 --> 01:31:19,300
 Is there a motion or any discussion?

1270
01:31:19,300 --> 01:31:20,300
 Commissioner Riggs.

1271
01:31:20,300 --> 01:31:26,900
 I have a motion to approve.

1272
01:31:26,900 --> 01:31:27,900
 Commissioner Pedrone.

1273
01:31:27,900 --> 01:31:29,900
 I second.

1274
01:31:29,900 --> 01:31:30,900
 Okay.

1275
01:31:30,900 --> 01:31:41,180
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on board.

1276
01:31:41,180 --> 01:31:43,780
 That item passes 6-0.

1277
01:31:43,780 --> 01:31:56,460
 Our next item is item 3A, the Consent Agenda, FP25-0018A.

1278
01:31:56,460 --> 01:31:57,460
 Commissioner Pedrone.

1279
01:31:57,460 --> 01:31:59,320
 I move approval.

1280
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:00,320
 Commissioner Riggs.

1281
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:01,740
 I second.

1282
01:32:01,740 --> 01:32:11,900
 And seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

1283
01:32:11,900 --> 01:32:14,460
 And the Consent Agenda passes 6-0.

1284
01:32:14,460 --> 01:32:21,180
 It moves us to items for individual figure consideration.

1285
01:32:21,180 --> 01:32:22,660
 Item 4A, FP25-0021.

1286
01:32:22,660 --> 01:32:30,340
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

1287
01:32:30,340 --> 01:32:38,680
 Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

1288
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:43,740
 This is 4A, FP25-0021.

1289
01:32:43,740 --> 01:32:47,580
 This is a final plat for Red Bird Ridge Phase 2.

1290
01:32:47,580 --> 01:32:52,100
 At this time, they are not meeting our criteria for approval, but they've requested an extension

1291
01:32:52,100 --> 01:32:58,580
 which would be granted to July 23rd, 2025, and staff has no objection with that request.

1292
01:32:58,580 --> 01:33:05,180
 I'll stand for any questions.

1293
01:33:05,180 --> 01:33:06,180
 Commissioner Pedrone.

1294
01:33:06,180 --> 01:33:11,940
 I move to approve the extension to date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

1295
01:33:11,940 --> 01:33:12,940
 Sorry.

1296
01:33:12,940 --> 01:33:15,940
 Commissioner McDade.

1297
01:33:15,940 --> 01:33:17,980
 I'll second the motion.

1298
01:33:17,980 --> 01:33:18,980
 Good.

1299
01:33:18,980 --> 01:33:29,300
 Seeing no questions, call for a vote on the board.

1300
01:33:29,300 --> 01:33:31,180
 Motion to continue passes 6-0.

1301
01:33:31,180 --> 01:33:36,300
 It moves us to item 4B, FR25-0017.

1302
01:33:36,300 --> 01:33:42,540
 Good evening, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

1303
01:33:42,540 --> 01:33:44,120
 This is 4B.

1304
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,060
 This is a final replat of Red Bird Ridge Phase 1.

1305
01:33:48,060 --> 01:33:52,380
 So this property is just south of the property that we just voted on.

1306
01:33:52,380 --> 01:33:59,380
 This is just a replat to adjust some lot lines and some right of way that they've needed

1307
01:33:59,380 --> 01:34:02,820
 to change since extending onto Phase 2.

1308
01:34:02,820 --> 01:34:06,820
 So at this time, it's not meeting our criteria for approval, but staff has no objection to

1309
01:34:06,820 --> 01:34:13,420
 the request extension to date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

1310
01:34:13,420 --> 01:34:15,180
 Commissioner Riggs.

1311
01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:19,580
 Make a motion to extend to July 23rd, 2025.

1312
01:34:19,580 --> 01:34:20,580
 Commissioner Dyer.

1313
01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:22,460
 I second that.

1314
01:34:22,460 --> 01:34:24,340
 Thank you.

1315
01:34:24,340 --> 01:34:46,580
 Seeing no questions, call for a vote on the board.

1316
01:34:46,580 --> 01:34:51,620
 That item passes 6-0.

1317
01:34:51,620 --> 01:35:05,540
 Next item is item 4C, FP25-0022, and I believe, Commissioner McDade, you'd like to recuse?

1318
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:18,580
 All right, good evening, Commission, Matt Bodine, here to present a proposed final plot

1319
01:35:18,580 --> 01:35:23,580
 of Rose-Lana Village Edition, this applies to create a lot of record and establish easements

1320
01:35:23,580 --> 01:35:27,820
 associated with the proposed multi-family development.

1321
01:35:27,820 --> 01:35:31,340
 At the time, this plot doesn't meet our criteria for approval.

1322
01:35:31,340 --> 01:35:39,020
 However, staff has no objection to their extension request to a date certain of July 23rd, 2025.

1323
01:35:39,020 --> 01:35:40,020
 Thank you, Matt.

1324
01:35:40,020 --> 01:35:43,500
 Any questions or a motion?

1325
01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:44,500
 Commissioner Riggs.

1326
01:35:44,500 --> 01:35:50,060
 I make a motion to extend to a date certain July 23rd, 2025.

1327
01:35:50,060 --> 01:35:52,060
 And Commissioner McDuff.

1328
01:35:52,060 --> 01:36:00,560
 I'd like to second Commissioner Riggs' motion to extend the date to a date certain of July

1329
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:04,100
 23rd, 2025.

1330
01:36:04,100 --> 01:36:05,100
 Thank you.

1331
01:36:05,100 --> 01:36:17,740
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

1332
01:36:17,740 --> 01:36:26,820
 That item passes 5-1-0, brings us to 5-0-1, sorry.

1333
01:36:26,820 --> 01:36:35,340
 Brings us to item 4-D, Matt, if you could get, thank you, yeah.

1334
01:36:35,340 --> 01:36:37,660
 This is FP25-0023.

1335
01:36:37,660 --> 01:36:38,660
 Correct.

1336
01:36:38,660 --> 01:37:01,340
 I'll wait just a moment.

1337
01:37:01,340 --> 01:37:27,780
 Okay, good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

1338
01:37:27,780 --> 01:37:33,860
 Angie Mangleris, development review manager, here to present FP25-0023.

1339
01:37:33,860 --> 01:37:39,260
 This is a final plot for phase 1A of the Coal Ranch Master Plan community.

1340
01:37:39,260 --> 01:37:45,740
 The subject property is located just north of FM2499, about 2,800 feet west of Underwood

1341
01:37:45,740 --> 01:37:46,740
 Road.

1342
01:37:46,740 --> 01:37:50,700
 The purpose of this final plot is to plot phase 1 of the Coal Ranch development, which

1343
01:37:50,700 --> 01:37:57,260
 includes 417 lots for residential development, along with some open space and to dedicate

1344
01:37:57,260 --> 01:37:59,500
 rights of way to serve the development.

1345
01:37:59,500 --> 01:38:02,500
 At this time, the plot does not meet all of our criteria for approval.

1346
01:38:02,500 --> 01:38:06,540
 However, staff is recommending approval of this final plot with the condition that compliance

1347
01:38:06,540 --> 01:38:12,600
 with Denton Development Code, Section 8.3.2.A, which requires the approval of civil engineering

1348
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:20,060
 plans be achieved prior to the final plot being approved and being released for construction

1349
01:38:20,060 --> 01:38:21,060
 of phase 1.

1350
01:38:21,060 --> 01:38:34,380
 I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.

1351
01:38:34,380 --> 01:38:46,100
 So this first phase that is going to be developed, will the 288 loop when it comes out to 2449,

1352
01:38:46,100 --> 01:38:50,100
 will that come out west of this location?

1353
01:38:50,100 --> 01:38:57,660
 Yes, it is, roughly speaking, it is to the west of it.

1354
01:38:57,660 --> 01:39:01,600
 It's not shown within these boundaries, but it's not within the site boundaries.

1355
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:09,140
 So will the traffic be impacted greatly with the addition of these homes in this first

1356
01:39:09,140 --> 01:39:11,140
 phase on 2449?

1357
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:18,020
 Because obviously it's going to be some time until the loop gets extended that way.

1358
01:39:18,020 --> 01:39:23,500
 Sure, I mean there would be some additional traffic that comes with homes, but as part

1359
01:39:23,500 --> 01:39:29,780
 of the CEPs and phase 1 as an entirety, Coal Ranch has been working in coordination with

1360
01:39:29,780 --> 01:39:34,180
 the city to confirm that they're meeting all of our requirements.

1361
01:39:34,180 --> 01:39:36,660
 Thank you.

1362
01:39:36,660 --> 01:39:44,260
 Any other questions or a motion?

1363
01:39:44,260 --> 01:39:45,260
 Commissioner Riggs?

1364
01:39:45,260 --> 01:39:49,620
 I make a motion to approve.

1365
01:39:49,620 --> 01:39:56,620
 Commissioner McDuff, can we, yeah, there's a staff recommended condition, does your motion

1366
01:39:56,620 --> 01:39:57,980
 include that?

1367
01:39:57,980 --> 01:39:58,980
 Yes.

1368
01:39:58,980 --> 01:39:59,980
 Okay.

1369
01:39:59,980 --> 01:40:00,980
 Commissioner McDuff?

1370
01:40:00,980 --> 01:40:10,300
 Yes, I'd like to second that emotion please, and that was recommending approval of the

1371
01:40:10,300 --> 01:40:18,060
 final plan with the following condition from the staff.

1372
01:40:18,060 --> 01:40:26,780
 Seeing no questions, let's vote on the board.

1373
01:40:26,780 --> 01:40:30,500
 That item passes 6-0.

1374
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:46,260
 That brings us to our public hearing portion of our meeting, Item 5A, PDA 25-0003A.

1375
01:40:46,260 --> 01:40:52,020
 Let the record show that Commissioner McDuff is recusing for this item.

1376
01:40:52,020 --> 01:41:02,420
 You would think I would have this down, because two weeks ago I was in Scotland, but I don't,

1377
01:41:02,420 --> 01:41:03,420
 so my apologies.

1378
01:41:03,420 --> 01:41:04,420
 Commissioner McDate?

1379
01:41:04,420 --> 01:41:05,420
 All right.

1380
01:41:05,420 --> 01:41:10,940
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Haley Zuckerski, Assistant Planning Director,

1381
01:41:10,940 --> 01:41:13,740
 filling in this evening for Mia Hines.

1382
01:41:13,740 --> 01:41:19,660
 The request before you is PDA 25-3, Gateway of Denton Signs.

1383
01:41:19,660 --> 01:41:25,700
 So as I stated, the request is for establishing special sign standards within the Plan Development

1384
01:41:25,700 --> 01:41:31,980
 District that covers the southeast corner of Vintage Boulevard and I-35W.

1385
01:41:31,980 --> 01:41:37,060
 Some of you may remember in June of 2024, there was a detailed site plan adopted for

1386
01:41:37,060 --> 01:41:42,100
 this site for a travel plaza that includes a gas station, convenience store, two restaurants

1387
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:43,100
 and a car wash.

1388
01:41:43,100 --> 01:41:46,380
 The subject property is outlined in black there on the map.

1389
01:41:46,380 --> 01:41:52,700
 You can see it's adjacent to the current on and off ramp for Vintage at I-35.

1390
01:41:52,700 --> 01:41:57,380
 The subject property is a total of just over 4.29 acres.

1391
01:41:57,380 --> 01:42:02,380
 As I mentioned, it sits right next to the jug handle design entrance and exit to I-35.

1392
01:42:02,380 --> 01:42:06,260
 It has frontage on Vintage Boulevard.

1393
01:42:06,260 --> 01:42:10,840
 If you can tell from its current location, it is kind of tucked behind the multifamily

1394
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:14,900
 development that's recently been built here just to the south for northbound traffic on

1395
01:42:14,900 --> 01:42:15,900
 I-35.

1396
01:42:15,900 --> 01:42:20,700
 That plays a factor in the request this evening.

1397
01:42:20,700 --> 01:42:25,140
 So before we move on, since the sign code is something that's new to some of you all

1398
01:42:25,140 --> 01:42:30,100
 and possibly to the public, I wanted to just give a brief explanation of the purpose of

1399
01:42:30,100 --> 01:42:31,300
 our sign code.

1400
01:42:31,300 --> 01:42:36,660
 So it is intended to help kind of manage the built environment in terms of limiting nuisances

1401
01:42:36,660 --> 01:42:41,700
 and visual clutter and balancing the aesthetics of our community with safety features, but

1402
01:42:41,700 --> 01:42:46,620
 at the same time providing for effective communication of messages and advertising for the businesses

1403
01:42:46,620 --> 01:42:48,900
 in town.

1404
01:42:48,900 --> 01:42:52,920
 So some of the things that the sign code regulates are the number of signs, the height of signs,

1405
01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:57,420
 the size of those, and a lot of that varies by zoning district as well as by the type

1406
01:42:57,420 --> 01:42:59,380
 of street that you're on.

1407
01:42:59,380 --> 01:43:03,740
 So for example, I-35 would typically allow a taller sign than, say, a collector street

1408
01:43:03,740 --> 01:43:04,740
 within the city.

1409
01:43:04,740 --> 01:43:09,780
 But the overall goal is just limiting that visual clutter but ensuring that businesses

1410
01:43:09,780 --> 01:43:13,180
 are able to deliver those commercial messages to the public so that people know where to

1411
01:43:13,180 --> 01:43:16,140
 go to find the businesses they're looking for.

1412
01:43:16,140 --> 01:43:19,140
 All situations cannot be anticipated by our sign code.

1413
01:43:19,140 --> 01:43:23,340
 So it does have two options for people to deviate from it that don't require going to

1414
01:43:23,340 --> 01:43:27,100
 the Board of Adjustment for a variance, and that is if you're part of a plan development,

1415
01:43:27,100 --> 01:43:30,540
 then it calls for those sign standards to be adopted into your PD if you're deviating

1416
01:43:30,540 --> 01:43:35,060
 from the sign code, or you can go through a special sign district creation process.

1417
01:43:35,060 --> 01:43:38,100
 And it's a very similar dual public hearing process to the PD amendment.

1418
01:43:38,100 --> 01:43:40,860
 So for an applicant, those two processes look roughly the same.

1419
01:43:40,860 --> 01:43:44,720
 Tonight, we're going the PD route.

1420
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:49,480
 So the request before you all, just to go over their site plan briefly, the sign package

1421
01:43:49,480 --> 01:43:53,100
 includes a very specific number of signs.

1422
01:43:53,100 --> 01:44:00,020
 It limits them to two new ground signs that are locations A and B. So A is the pole sign,

1423
01:44:00,020 --> 01:44:04,860
 which is the sign that is exceeding both the height and the size of our sign code.

1424
01:44:04,860 --> 01:44:08,420
 You can see that would advertise for three businesses as well as containing the fuel

1425
01:44:08,420 --> 01:44:10,780
 prices for the business.

1426
01:44:10,780 --> 01:44:15,380
 The other ground sign or monument sign is sign B. That would again be a multi-tenant

1427
01:44:15,380 --> 01:44:21,620
 sign with fuel pricing located on the entrance off of Vintage Boulevard.

1428
01:44:21,620 --> 01:44:25,280
 The sign package includes a variety of wall signs for the buildings themselves.

1429
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:30,180
 The other ground signs that this is imposing a limit to the number of are those directional

1430
01:44:30,180 --> 01:44:31,180
 signs.

1431
01:44:31,180 --> 01:44:37,740
 So you can see it allows for two each of the following ground signs to advertise for one

1432
01:44:37,740 --> 01:44:42,620
 of the drive-through businesses on site as well as the car wash to help traffic navigate

1433
01:44:42,620 --> 01:44:48,820
 to those entrances and exits to the drive-throughs and the car wash itself.

1434
01:44:48,820 --> 01:44:53,500
 So a quick summary of how this compares to the city standard sign code.

1435
01:44:53,500 --> 01:44:56,500
 In terms of the types of permitted signs, it does not limit that.

1436
01:44:56,500 --> 01:45:00,560
 It imposes limits on the number of ground signs, as I mentioned, but it allows for any

1437
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:06,260
 type of wall attached or temporary or wind device type signs as allowed by the city standard

1438
01:45:06,260 --> 01:45:07,540
 code.

1439
01:45:07,540 --> 01:45:12,180
 In terms of the maximum effective area, the most significant change with this is again

1440
01:45:12,180 --> 01:45:16,860
 that pole sign is 216 square feet larger than what would be permitted by the standard sign

1441
01:45:16,860 --> 01:45:18,860
 code.

1442
01:45:18,860 --> 01:45:23,340
 The other monument sign on Vintage is actually 86 square feet less than what they would have

1443
01:45:23,340 --> 01:45:24,340
 been allowed.

1444
01:45:24,340 --> 01:45:27,380
 So there are some trade-offs with this as well.

1445
01:45:27,380 --> 01:45:31,820
 Our sign code is actually silent to directional signs, so people are allowed essentially as

1446
01:45:31,820 --> 01:45:32,860
 many of those as they want.

1447
01:45:32,860 --> 01:45:37,300
 We do try to keep the size of them limited, but with this they are imposing a self-imposed

1448
01:45:37,300 --> 01:45:41,780
 maximum of five square feet and 12 square feet on those signs to help ensure that there's

1449
01:45:41,780 --> 01:45:43,340
 not too much visual clutter.

1450
01:45:43,340 --> 01:45:47,740
 So should the site develop with other businesses in the future, the sign face could change,

1451
01:45:47,740 --> 01:45:51,820
 but those sizes would still have to be adhered to.

1452
01:45:51,820 --> 01:45:55,100
 For the height of the signs, again the pole sign is the one that is deviating from the

1453
01:45:55,100 --> 01:45:56,100
 sign code.

1454
01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:59,180
 It's 20 feet higher than what would typically be allowed.

1455
01:45:59,180 --> 01:46:02,100
 Again, that's due to that location on I-35.

1456
01:46:02,100 --> 01:46:06,100
 If you've driven down there, you know once you get out of the main lanes that it's kind

1457
01:46:06,100 --> 01:46:08,300
 of elevated for the ramp.

1458
01:46:08,300 --> 01:46:14,460
 So that elevation combined with the new multifamily that's 45 feet height imposes visibility restrictions

1459
01:46:14,460 --> 01:46:16,500
 for this particular corner.

1460
01:46:16,500 --> 01:46:22,140
 Again, limiting the height of those directional signs on site to three and five feet.

1461
01:46:22,140 --> 01:46:24,720
 They are imposing setbacks for the signs.

1462
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:30,000
 Those are 20 feet from the property line for the two, the pole sign and the monument sign,

1463
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:35,220
 and one foot off of the internal drive aisles at a minimum for those directional signs.

1464
01:46:35,220 --> 01:46:39,340
 And then they are imposing limitations to only four directional signs.

1465
01:46:39,340 --> 01:46:43,420
 Again, our sign code doesn't speak to that, so they would typically be allowed more of

1466
01:46:43,420 --> 01:46:47,740
 those as long as they were staying in correct locations on site.

1467
01:46:47,740 --> 01:46:51,980
 They are adhering to the sign code in terms of the number of signs allowed on I-35 and

1468
01:46:51,980 --> 01:46:54,980
 vintage.

1469
01:46:54,980 --> 01:46:58,300
 So for this case, there were actually three sets of criteria for approval.

1470
01:46:58,300 --> 01:47:01,580
 So you notice your staff analysis was a little lengthier than normal because we had the sign

1471
01:47:01,580 --> 01:47:06,800
 code standards as well as our normal standards in the DDC.

1472
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:10,780
 In terms of what the sign code calls for when someone is seeking to deviate through either

1473
01:47:10,780 --> 01:47:14,740
 a PD or a special sign district, it looks for is there something superior than what

1474
01:47:14,740 --> 01:47:16,480
 our code would have offered.

1475
01:47:16,480 --> 01:47:23,180
 So in this case, again, they are imposing limits on themselves in that they cannot deviate

1476
01:47:23,180 --> 01:47:26,660
 from the number of ground signs on the size of those without going back through this public

1477
01:47:26,660 --> 01:47:28,080
 hearing process.

1478
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:31,900
 But their sign package also ensures that they have consistency in design throughout the

1479
01:47:31,900 --> 01:47:36,980
 site so that you'll notice the materials used on that monument sign match the buildings

1480
01:47:36,980 --> 01:47:43,300
 and things of that nature to ensure that consistency and uniformity in the look of the site.

1481
01:47:43,300 --> 01:47:47,980
 The sign code also calls for us to confirm that what they're asking for is necessary.

1482
01:47:47,980 --> 01:47:52,980
 It's not just for a financial benefit and then it doesn't violate the spirit and intent

1483
01:47:52,980 --> 01:47:54,420
 of the sign code.

1484
01:47:54,420 --> 01:47:59,980
 Again, this is just primarily driven by the need to improve visibility for that pole sign

1485
01:47:59,980 --> 01:48:04,860
 as the major driving factor that led them down this path because as you can see here,

1486
01:48:04,860 --> 01:48:08,940
 the line of sight for someone at the point about a half mile from the exit for vintage

1487
01:48:08,940 --> 01:48:13,700
 where you would want to be getting over and knowing what business you're going to, this

1488
01:48:13,700 --> 01:48:17,300
 sign and this corner are actually blocked from view by the multifamily that's been developed

1489
01:48:17,300 --> 01:48:20,620
 given the elevation of the roadway compared to this site as well as the height of those

1490
01:48:20,620 --> 01:48:21,860
 new buildings.

1491
01:48:21,860 --> 01:48:27,140
 So that again is the need for the ask for the larger sign.

1492
01:48:27,140 --> 01:48:30,340
 And then there's a number of factors in the sign code in terms of the scale, color and

1493
01:48:30,340 --> 01:48:31,340
 design of the signs.

1494
01:48:31,340 --> 01:48:37,020
 Again, they are complying with those and creating that thematic elements to the site while still

1495
01:48:37,020 --> 01:48:42,740
 allowing for multiple tenants and brands to be advertised.

1496
01:48:42,740 --> 01:48:46,580
 We also analyzed all of the criteria in the Denton Development Code for general applications

1497
01:48:46,580 --> 01:48:48,480
 and plan development amendments.

1498
01:48:48,480 --> 01:48:51,540
 We found that it complies with those as well.

1499
01:48:51,540 --> 01:48:55,540
 What they're seeking is appropriate for the site given the context on the highway intersection

1500
01:48:55,540 --> 01:48:57,580
 with the major arterial roadway.

1501
01:48:57,580 --> 01:49:03,300
 Their sign package would allow for consistency with the already approved site plan for the

1502
01:49:03,300 --> 01:49:08,020
 site in terms of the types of businesses and how people would navigate through the site.

1503
01:49:08,020 --> 01:49:12,140
 And they are imposing those additional restrictions to ensure that there is a superior layout

1504
01:49:12,140 --> 01:49:15,980
 to what we could achieve for the site otherwise because they are imposing those limitations

1505
01:49:15,980 --> 01:49:19,700
 on the number of ground signs.

1506
01:49:19,700 --> 01:49:21,940
 Public outreach was conducted for this case.

1507
01:49:21,940 --> 01:49:26,900
 We have not received any responses in favor or opposition to date.

1508
01:49:26,900 --> 01:49:30,900
 And staff is recommending approval as we found it complied with all criteria in the sign

1509
01:49:30,900 --> 01:49:32,580
 code and the DDC.

1510
01:49:32,580 --> 01:49:36,460
 The next step for this case would be a public hearing at City Council on July 15th.

1511
01:49:36,460 --> 01:49:38,100
 And I'm happy to answer any questions.

1512
01:49:38,100 --> 01:49:39,460
 Thank you, Haley.

1513
01:49:39,460 --> 01:49:42,260
 I will open the public hearing at this time.

1514
01:49:42,260 --> 01:49:49,500
 Are there any factual questions from the commission before we hear?

1515
01:49:49,500 --> 01:49:50,500
 Okay.

1516
01:49:50,500 --> 01:49:53,520
 Thank you, Haley.

1517
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:54,660
 This is a public hearing.

1518
01:49:54,660 --> 01:50:00,120
 So I don't have any cards already filled out requesting to speak, but you are welcome to

1519
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:04,520
 come down and state your name and address and share your thoughts on this item if anyone

1520
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:10,860
 has any.

1521
01:50:10,860 --> 01:50:13,180
 Not seeing any movement.

1522
01:50:13,180 --> 01:50:16,800
 I will close the public hearing.

1523
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:25,340
 Open the floor for discussion or questions from the commission.

1524
01:50:25,340 --> 01:50:27,860
 I guess, Haley, I have one.

1525
01:50:27,860 --> 01:50:34,940
 Just wanted to hear from the public first if there was anybody.

1526
01:50:34,940 --> 01:50:40,460
 I completely understand the need for it given the current topology and the setback from

1527
01:50:40,460 --> 01:50:45,260
 where the access road will be in the future.

1528
01:50:45,260 --> 01:50:52,260
 What I'm wondering is it seems a little bit like -- am I correct to think this is about

1529
01:50:52,260 --> 01:51:01,460
 the scale of like the travel stop at 77 and 35 up north of town?

1530
01:51:01,460 --> 01:51:03,860
 It's more of a travel center height sign?

1531
01:51:03,860 --> 01:51:06,260
 Yes, I believe so.

1532
01:51:06,260 --> 01:51:07,260
 Okay.

1533
01:51:07,260 --> 01:51:17,340
 You know, this area is going to see a lot of change over the next 20 years, and it may

1534
01:51:17,340 --> 01:51:25,580
 look strange if this is codified so tightly that as things fill in and redevelop, they

1535
01:51:25,580 --> 01:51:31,260
 don't have the flexibility to modify and lower the sign and make it fit a little bit better

1536
01:51:31,260 --> 01:51:35,420
 once the access road is complete and they have better visibility, if that makes sense

1537
01:51:35,420 --> 01:51:37,580
 from a directional perspective.

1538
01:51:37,580 --> 01:51:49,100
 So I guess my question after all that is do the conditions placed on the PD prevent them

1539
01:51:49,100 --> 01:51:53,420
 from rebuilding a sign that is less tall, for instance, in the future?

1540
01:51:53,420 --> 01:51:59,260
 No, it's just establishing that maximum so they couldn't exceed 60 feet in the future.

1541
01:51:59,260 --> 01:52:00,260
 Okay.

1542
01:52:00,260 --> 01:52:01,260
 Okay.

1543
01:52:01,260 --> 01:52:02,260
 Thank you.

1544
01:52:02,260 --> 01:52:05,580
 Any other questions on the commission?

1545
01:52:05,580 --> 01:52:14,900
 Seeing none, I open the floor for a motion, if anyone.

1546
01:52:14,900 --> 01:52:16,060
 Commissioner Riggs?

1547
01:52:16,060 --> 01:52:18,540
 Make a motion to approve.

1548
01:52:18,540 --> 01:52:19,540
 And Commissioner Padron?

1549
01:52:19,540 --> 01:52:22,540
 I second.

1550
01:52:22,540 --> 01:52:23,540
 Okay.

1551
01:52:23,540 --> 01:52:35,180
 Seeing no questions, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1552
01:52:35,180 --> 01:52:37,900
 And that item passes 5-0-1.

1553
01:52:37,900 --> 01:52:46,660
 Haley, if you could get Commissioner McDade again, I'd appreciate it.

1554
01:52:46,660 --> 01:53:01,420
 That brings us to our second public hearing of the night, which is item 5B, S25-0002.

1555
01:53:01,420 --> 01:53:02,420
 Welcome, Sean.

1556
01:53:02,420 --> 01:53:03,420
 Good evening, Chair.

1557
01:53:03,420 --> 01:53:06,420
 Members of the commission.

1558
01:53:06,420 --> 01:53:24,620
 Let's give Commissioner McDade a minute or two to get back in here.

1559
01:53:24,620 --> 01:53:42,500
 And I'll go ahead and open the public hearing for this item 5B at this time.

1560
01:53:42,500 --> 01:53:43,500
 Thank you, sir.

1561
01:53:43,500 --> 01:53:45,260
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

1562
01:53:45,260 --> 01:53:54,220
 Sean Jacobson, Associate Planner, here to present S25-0002, the Palladium Denton West

1563
01:53:54,220 --> 01:53:55,500
 Development.

1564
01:53:55,500 --> 01:54:00,300
 This is a request for a specific use permit to allow a multifamily use on approximately

1565
01:54:00,300 --> 01:54:04,940
 4 acres of land, generally on the east side of Fall Meadows Street.

1566
01:54:04,940 --> 01:54:10,340
 The current zoning is R7, which does allow a multifamily with a specific use permit.

1567
01:54:10,340 --> 01:54:16,340
 A current land use is moderate density residential, and so what you all will be determining tonight

1568
01:54:16,340 --> 01:54:21,660
 is whether this proposal meets the criteria for approval for a specific use permit in

1569
01:54:21,660 --> 01:54:25,980
 the moderate density designation.

1570
01:54:25,980 --> 01:54:32,180
 So as you can see the proposed site plan, this proposal would include 120 residences,

1571
01:54:32,180 --> 01:54:37,060
 and it would be able to go up to three stories, so a height of approximately 47 feet.

1572
01:54:37,060 --> 01:54:41,980
 Now as we discussed in the work session, we do have our Chapter 212 provisions, which

1573
01:54:41,980 --> 01:54:48,940
 allow a multifamily development that is providing affordable housing at the sufficient rate

1574
01:54:48,940 --> 01:54:54,020
 to take advantage of flexibility on certain items on their site plan.

1575
01:54:54,020 --> 01:54:55,340
 This is one of those items.

1576
01:54:55,340 --> 01:55:00,700
 So rather than being held to the 40 foot height limit, normally in R7, they will be going

1577
01:55:00,700 --> 01:55:06,700
 up to the 47 foot height, because that is one of the incentives that is allowed based

1578
01:55:06,700 --> 01:55:10,580
 on the affordability they're providing if they're approved.

1579
01:55:10,580 --> 01:55:16,340
 The site is proposing to have 169 parking spaces, and I do want to point out the applicant

1580
01:55:16,340 --> 01:55:20,740
 is specifically limiting themselves to only one row of parking in front, rather than two

1581
01:55:20,740 --> 01:55:22,580
 to be more compatible with the neighborhood.

1582
01:55:22,580 --> 01:55:25,860
 We had that discussion, and they were open to that.

1583
01:55:25,860 --> 01:55:30,380
 One of the things that allows them to work on the site is that the second incentive they're

1584
01:55:30,380 --> 01:55:36,300
 taking advantage of is a reduction in parking to a rate of one vehicle space per unit for

1585
01:55:36,300 --> 01:55:42,820
 those affordable housing, and then they are providing two vehicle spaces per unit for

1586
01:55:42,820 --> 01:55:46,220
 the remaining market rate housing units.

1587
01:55:46,220 --> 01:55:49,620
 So again, that's one of the incentives that allows it and it helps to allow the site to

1588
01:55:49,620 --> 01:55:55,980
 work and to provide less parking in that front side to be more compatible with the neighborhood.

1589
01:55:55,980 --> 01:56:00,340
 They're providing more open space than are required 8% minimum.

1590
01:56:00,340 --> 01:56:05,860
 They do have those two full access drives, and they are constructing a 10 foot wide sidewalk

1591
01:56:05,860 --> 01:56:07,660
 along their frontage.

1592
01:56:07,660 --> 01:56:10,460
 And as you can see, I've highlighted those incentives that they're taking advantage of

1593
01:56:10,460 --> 01:56:11,460
 there.

1594
01:56:11,460 --> 01:56:17,020
 That's the next one in the landscape area.

1595
01:56:17,020 --> 01:56:21,380
 Now it's also important with a specific use permit, we have these because a use is allowed,

1596
01:56:21,380 --> 01:56:23,820
 but we're looking at does it fit where it's proposed.

1597
01:56:23,820 --> 01:56:30,060
 And so the applicant has included a number of elements to help mitigate potential concerns,

1598
01:56:30,060 --> 01:56:33,800
 aesthetic issues, and better fit with the neighborhood.

1599
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:37,340
 One of those is the context sensitive 70 foot setback.

1600
01:56:37,340 --> 01:56:43,140
 So this building being very tall is set back farther from the street than many buildings

1601
01:56:43,140 --> 01:56:47,100
 in the area in order to avoid it being visually imposing on the street.

1602
01:56:47,100 --> 01:56:51,860
 However, it's also not set back so far that it's going to look like it's on an island.

1603
01:56:51,860 --> 01:56:55,680
 That was a discussion we had and the developer agreed that bringing it forward would make

1604
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:59,500
 sense to better align with the setbacks along the street to the south.

1605
01:56:59,500 --> 01:57:04,940
 As you can see on the side of the screen there, I've identified the sidewalk connections.

1606
01:57:04,940 --> 01:57:09,580
 So the developer is providing more sidewalk connections than are specifically required

1607
01:57:09,580 --> 01:57:13,900
 because that better fits with the pattern of sidewalk connections along the entire street,

1608
01:57:13,900 --> 01:57:16,100
 better fits with the neighborhood.

1609
01:57:16,100 --> 01:57:17,540
 And lastly, the building design.

1610
01:57:17,540 --> 01:57:22,980
 So while this is a tall building, it does not have a flat roof and it is designed to

1611
01:57:22,980 --> 01:57:28,420
 be broken up with architectural elements to give that visual appearance of a series of

1612
01:57:28,420 --> 01:57:29,780
 smaller buildings.

1613
01:57:29,780 --> 01:57:33,860
 So again, number of elements to help better fit with the neighborhood, mitigate potential

1614
01:57:33,860 --> 01:57:36,460
 aesthetic concerns.

1615
01:57:36,460 --> 01:57:38,060
 Moving on to the landscape plan.

1616
01:57:38,060 --> 01:57:42,660
 This does meet and slightly exceed our minimum landscape and tree canopy standards.

1617
01:57:42,660 --> 01:57:45,660
 We have those street trees along the frontage there.

1618
01:57:45,660 --> 01:57:52,060
 We'll note you'll see the areas outlined in yellow, maybe a little hard to see, but this

1619
01:57:52,060 --> 01:57:57,700
 site has a number of easements on it that made site design somewhat more challenging.

1620
01:57:57,700 --> 01:58:02,780
 Because of that, the applicant is taking advantage of two types of flexibility in their landscape

1621
01:58:02,780 --> 01:58:04,180
 design.

1622
01:58:04,180 --> 01:58:08,460
 One of those is our third affordability incentive, which allowed them to reduce their parking

1623
01:58:08,460 --> 01:58:12,940
 landscape from two five-point elements to one five-point element.

1624
01:58:12,940 --> 01:58:18,980
 So they're going to have somewhat fewer parking end caps than will normally be required.

1625
01:58:18,980 --> 01:58:23,380
 The other flexibility they're taking advantage of is our alternative landscape plan, where

1626
01:58:23,380 --> 01:58:29,180
 you're allowed to relocate or propose some different designs than are normally required

1627
01:58:29,180 --> 01:58:33,940
 because of constraints on the site, but you do have to go above and beyond as part of

1628
01:58:33,940 --> 01:58:35,060
 that alternative.

1629
01:58:35,060 --> 01:58:39,260
 So in this case, they had a limited amount of space along their right of way to fit in

1630
01:58:39,260 --> 01:58:41,660
 all of the screening that was required.

1631
01:58:41,660 --> 01:58:45,980
 Adding more trees in there, given the space, would have been unhealthy for the street trees

1632
01:58:45,980 --> 01:58:47,820
 that were already required.

1633
01:58:47,820 --> 01:58:51,940
 So instead, as a second right of way screening element, along with the evergreen shrubbery

1634
01:58:51,940 --> 01:58:56,140
 that will be provided, they're also providing a series of taller shrubs that will grow more

1635
01:58:56,140 --> 01:59:00,340
 towards the height of an ornamental tree, provide that additional screening, that aesthetic

1636
01:59:00,340 --> 01:59:05,620
 appearance, while still allowing space for everything to grow and thrive.

1637
01:59:05,620 --> 01:59:09,980
 In line with going above and beyond, they have also agreed to make all of the landscaping

1638
01:59:09,980 --> 01:59:12,140
 along that right of way frontage non-turf.

1639
01:59:12,140 --> 01:59:16,020
 So it's not just going to be yard, it's going to be decorative shrubs and grasses.

1640
01:59:16,020 --> 01:59:20,860
 I also do want to point out that we're getting some of those end caps that are not required,

1641
01:59:20,860 --> 01:59:22,780
 but they're being provided anyway.

1642
01:59:22,780 --> 01:59:27,580
 In the area outlined in the light green, along directly in front of the building, that is

1643
01:59:27,580 --> 01:59:31,180
 being provided as decorative shrubbery and grasses, although not required.

1644
01:59:31,180 --> 01:59:35,180
 So again, fitting better with the neighborhood where you'd expect to see landscaping along

1645
01:59:35,180 --> 01:59:39,700
 the front of your building.

1646
01:59:39,700 --> 01:59:43,740
 As always, we look at our approval criteria for an SUP.

1647
01:59:43,740 --> 01:59:48,020
 This proposal is consistent with the goals and policies of the Denton 2040 Comprehensive

1648
01:59:48,020 --> 01:59:53,740
 Plan, with our future land use map, so the overall moderate density residential area.

1649
01:59:53,740 --> 01:59:56,900
 That area will continue to be in line with the recommended density, even with the addition

1650
01:59:56,900 --> 01:59:57,900
 of this housing.

1651
01:59:57,900 --> 02:00:02,620
 It also calls for us to look at other applicable plans, and this is where I do want to mention

1652
02:00:02,620 --> 02:00:06,260
 something we don't always talk about, but the City of Denton did an affordable housing

1653
02:00:06,260 --> 02:00:08,040
 needs analysis.

1654
02:00:08,040 --> 02:00:12,100
 What that identified was there are certain areas where we want to target incentives to

1655
02:00:12,100 --> 02:00:17,140
 encourage affordable housing, because those areas are more stable, more desirable.

1656
02:00:17,140 --> 02:00:21,540
 You see more investment in that area, and it's harder to get affordable housing.

1657
02:00:21,540 --> 02:00:23,080
 This is one of those areas.

1658
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:26,540
 So the one time when we can think a little bit more about the affordability element in

1659
02:00:26,540 --> 02:00:30,260
 making our decision is that this is something that's encouraged.

1660
02:00:30,260 --> 02:00:35,700
 Our Comprehensive Plan in SUP Chapter 7 encourages us to avoid clustering affordable housing

1661
02:00:35,700 --> 02:00:37,060
 just in certain areas.

1662
02:00:37,060 --> 02:00:40,700
 We don't want to have a socioeconomic segregation, as it says.

1663
02:00:40,700 --> 02:00:44,900
 This allows us to open up affordable housing in an area where it might not otherwise be

1664
02:00:44,900 --> 02:00:48,100
 available normally.

1665
02:00:48,100 --> 02:00:55,100
 However I do also want to point out that this is not out of step with what is surrounding

1666
02:00:55,100 --> 02:00:56,100
 it in development.

1667
02:00:56,100 --> 02:01:03,580
 This area is entirely either multifamily, higher density duplexes, quadplexes for multiple

1668
02:01:03,580 --> 02:01:07,860
 blocks in every direction, except to the north, which is a drainage area.

1669
02:01:07,860 --> 02:01:12,260
 So it is not inconsistent with the current development pattern to have another multifamily

1670
02:01:12,260 --> 02:01:13,860
 development.

1671
02:01:13,860 --> 02:01:17,580
 I wanted to identify the improved walkability, which is something that our Comprehensive

1672
02:01:17,580 --> 02:01:19,020
 Plan encourages.

1673
02:01:19,020 --> 02:01:24,580
 So because of the robust sidewalk network already existing, residents here would be

1674
02:01:24,580 --> 02:01:29,820
 able to within a 10-minute walk reach Evers Park Elementary School and Evers Park and

1675
02:01:29,820 --> 02:01:33,180
 within a 20-minute walk reach our North Branch Library.

1676
02:01:33,180 --> 02:01:38,380
 So some improvements in walkability just by putting these residents in a place where they

1677
02:01:38,380 --> 02:01:41,620
 can connect to that existing infrastructure.

1678
02:01:41,620 --> 02:01:45,420
 The specific use permit is not expected to generate significant adverse impacts, and

1679
02:01:45,420 --> 02:01:49,660
 utilities and infrastructure are available to serve the subject property.

1680
02:01:49,660 --> 02:01:54,500
 We did do our standard outreach, and we did receive one letter in response on behalf of

1681
02:01:54,500 --> 02:01:59,460
 nine properties, four of which were within the 200-foot limit in objection.

1682
02:01:59,460 --> 02:02:01,740
 The applicant did hold two neighborhood meetings.

1683
02:02:01,740 --> 02:02:04,300
 I was able to attend the second one.

1684
02:02:04,300 --> 02:02:06,420
 There was no significant opposition expressed.

1685
02:02:06,420 --> 02:02:11,860
 There were questions about the process and the levels of affordability.

1686
02:02:11,860 --> 02:02:16,460
 So with that, staff is recommending approval of the SUP with the conditions presented in

1687
02:02:16,460 --> 02:02:20,100
 your backup, and I will happily stand for any questions.

1688
02:02:20,100 --> 02:02:21,100
 Thank you, Sean.

1689
02:02:21,100 --> 02:02:25,780
 Sorry to interrupt the flow, but we're going to take a brief recess before we come back

1690
02:02:25,780 --> 02:02:36,780
 for Commissioner questions, so just three or four minutes at 7.15 p.m.

1691
02:02:36,780 --> 02:02:37,780
 Good evening.

1692
02:02:37,780 --> 02:02:45,180
 At 7.22 p.m. we will reconvene after recess on the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.

1693
02:02:45,180 --> 02:02:54,180
 We just got the overview from Sean Jacobson, thank you, of this project.

1694
02:02:54,180 --> 02:03:01,940
 Are there any questions of the Commission for Staff?

1695
02:03:01,940 --> 02:03:05,940
 Commissioner Briggs?

1696
02:03:05,940 --> 02:03:06,940
 So I do have a question.

1697
02:03:06,940 --> 02:03:13,700
 I noticed that as part of this approval, there's talk of encroachment into the drainage easement.

1698
02:03:13,700 --> 02:03:16,900
 Can you kind of talk about that a little bit?

1699
02:03:16,900 --> 02:03:18,780
 Yeah, absolutely.

1700
02:03:18,780 --> 02:03:25,780
 So there is a pre-existing, a fairly large, and I'll go back to this, drainage pipe running

1701
02:03:25,780 --> 02:03:32,020
 along the east and south sides of the properties, fairly large pipe.

1702
02:03:32,020 --> 02:03:36,580
 Because of that, we did want to make sure that we have that within an easement.

1703
02:03:36,580 --> 02:03:43,380
 The concern was that normally our easements would not allow parking spaces over those.

1704
02:03:43,380 --> 02:03:48,740
 In this case, we were able to have the discussion with the drainage department, with those involved,

1705
02:03:48,740 --> 02:03:52,740
 and they were comfortable with the fact that as long as the language was written, so that

1706
02:03:52,740 --> 02:03:56,380
 if they need to go in work, they can go in and do whatever work they need to do, and

1707
02:03:56,380 --> 02:03:59,540
 they are not responsible to put anything back or pay for that.

1708
02:03:59,540 --> 02:04:01,660
 That is responsibility of the developer.

1709
02:04:01,660 --> 02:04:05,700
 They were comfortable with allowing that encroachment, which then did allow, it would have been a

1710
02:04:05,700 --> 02:04:10,380
 significant loss of parking and landscaping if nothing had been allowed to be in that

1711
02:04:10,380 --> 02:04:11,380
 area.

1712
02:04:11,380 --> 02:04:12,380
 Okay.

1713
02:04:12,380 --> 02:04:17,820
 So, and I noticed the note on the plat, too, so that's good, but I just wanted to verify

1714
02:04:17,820 --> 02:04:21,260
 that the city wouldn't be on the hook for repaving the parking lot or something.

1715
02:04:21,260 --> 02:04:25,820
 Absolutely, and in fact, they will have to come back and complete an encroachment agreement,

1716
02:04:25,820 --> 02:04:28,020
 so that will be very much buttoned up.

1717
02:04:28,020 --> 02:04:29,020
 Okay.

1718
02:04:29,020 --> 02:04:30,020
 Commissioner Pedro.

1719
02:04:30,020 --> 02:04:31,020
 Thank you.

1720
02:04:31,020 --> 02:04:47,780
 Sean, you mentioned that there was some residential comment based on the project and there's

1721
02:04:47,780 --> 02:04:50,980
 a little bit of opposition with it, or?

1722
02:04:50,980 --> 02:04:55,100
 As far as I'm not aware of any actual opposition, there were some questions about what the level

1723
02:04:55,100 --> 02:05:02,340
 of affordability was, about the process involved, about incentives, but I don't recall any opposition

1724
02:05:02,340 --> 02:05:06,100
 in the meeting that I was in being expressed at the project.

1725
02:05:06,100 --> 02:05:09,660
 Could we possibly like explore that a little bit more as far as what the affordability would

1726
02:05:09,660 --> 02:05:13,300
 mean in this instance, like how is that being defined?

1727
02:05:13,300 --> 02:05:14,300
 Absolutely.

1728
02:05:14,300 --> 02:05:17,140
 Yeah, let me just, I have a slide for that.

1729
02:05:17,140 --> 02:05:20,860
 So as you can see here on that first column there, percentage, well, second column, percentage

1730
02:05:20,860 --> 02:05:22,860
 of units affordable.

1731
02:05:22,860 --> 02:05:33,780
 So 7.5% of the 120 units will be at the extremely low income affordability level, 27.5% at the

1732
02:05:33,780 --> 02:05:39,700
 very low affordability level, and 32.5% at the low income moderate level.

1733
02:05:39,700 --> 02:05:48,300
 So overall, that will be 67.5% or 81 of the 120 units will be affordable at either, at

1734
02:05:48,300 --> 02:05:51,340
 one of those three levels.

1735
02:05:51,340 --> 02:06:01,180
 Okay, I don't see any more questions for staff at this time.

1736
02:06:01,180 --> 02:06:09,660
 At this time, I'll invite the applicant up, Maxwell Fisher, I believe, if you'd like to

1737
02:06:09,660 --> 02:06:10,660
 come up.

1738
02:06:40,500 --> 02:06:46,180
 Chair, commissioners, my name is Maxwell Fisher with Zonedev 2502 Grandview Drive, Richardson,

1739
02:06:46,180 --> 02:06:50,620
 Texas, 75080 representing Palladium USA Development.

1740
02:06:50,620 --> 02:06:55,900
 We just have two representatives from Palladium here to answer any questions that I can't

1741
02:06:55,900 --> 02:06:56,900
 answer.

1742
02:06:56,900 --> 02:07:01,260
 A little bit about Palladium, Palladium is an international development company, however,

1743
02:07:01,260 --> 02:07:03,940
 their U.S. headquarters is in Dallas.

1744
02:07:03,940 --> 02:07:08,300
 So you get the quality of international developer, but you get the advantage of having a local

1745
02:07:08,300 --> 02:07:10,840
 developer in terms of management.

1746
02:07:10,840 --> 02:07:15,060
 So not only does Palladium develop properties, but they're also a long-term manager.

1747
02:07:15,060 --> 02:07:17,860
 They have in-house management.

1748
02:07:17,860 --> 02:07:23,220
 Most multi-family developers usually do that third party for their management.

1749
02:07:23,220 --> 02:07:24,220
 Palladium is in-house.

1750
02:07:24,220 --> 02:07:27,100
 On top of that, they also are long-term owners.

1751
02:07:27,100 --> 02:07:32,180
 The structures of their financial deals is such that they own the properties for decades

1752
02:07:32,180 --> 02:07:33,180
 to come.

1753
02:07:33,180 --> 02:07:37,140
 So what you see, what you get in the beginning is what you'll have for a long period of

1754
02:07:37,140 --> 02:07:38,140
 time.

1755
02:07:38,140 --> 02:07:45,860
 That's the structure of the community versus selling off to another larger holder.

1756
02:07:45,860 --> 02:07:47,900
 Sean did a great job of going over the projects.

1757
02:07:47,900 --> 02:07:51,340
 I won't belabor with a lot of the details, but I will go over some of the things that

1758
02:07:51,340 --> 02:07:57,020
 maybe he didn't mention in detail, but we will have several amenities with this development.

1759
02:07:57,020 --> 02:08:04,820
 We have an interior courtyard that will have a pool, a playground, a gazebo, a grill area.

1760
02:08:04,820 --> 02:08:11,540
 And then we also have a dog park, it will be a true dog park with some agility elements

1761
02:08:11,540 --> 02:08:16,980
 for the dogs and a shaded area there.

1762
02:08:16,980 --> 02:08:24,220
 And then inside we have a playground, fitness center, play room, a club room, and bike parking

1763
02:08:24,220 --> 02:08:25,220
 as well.

1764
02:08:25,220 --> 02:08:26,220
 And I'll show you a few of these pictures.

1765
02:08:26,220 --> 02:08:29,660
 This is from one of their Palladium Redberg development.

1766
02:08:29,660 --> 02:08:32,380
 Their children's room actually has an interactive floor.

1767
02:08:32,380 --> 02:08:37,980
 It lights up when you jump on the floor, so kind of an interesting feature that you don't

1768
02:08:37,980 --> 02:08:41,900
 always see in a multifamily development, there's playground equipment.

1769
02:08:41,900 --> 02:08:46,700
 Here's some of their common amenity spaces on the inside, their business center, fitness

1770
02:08:46,700 --> 02:08:54,580
 center, club room, and the residents are able to use these and reserve these areas when

1771
02:08:54,580 --> 02:08:57,460
 they need to.

1772
02:08:57,460 --> 02:09:02,820
 Here's a large swimming pool they have in their development.

1773
02:09:02,820 --> 02:09:10,460
 Also this is in Dallas, some of the other conference rooms and fitness rooms from some

1774
02:09:10,460 --> 02:09:11,460
 of their developments.

1775
02:09:11,460 --> 02:09:16,340
 Another thing that they do that a lot of multifamily developers do not is they are truly a fixture

1776
02:09:16,340 --> 02:09:17,340
 of the community.

1777
02:09:17,340 --> 02:09:23,940
 They partner with Operation Community Care by providing financial literacy classes, job

1778
02:09:23,940 --> 02:09:29,740
 skills training, resume building, even help with home ownership classes as someone transitions

1779
02:09:29,740 --> 02:09:34,460
 out of their apartment if they want to be a homeowner someday.

1780
02:09:34,460 --> 02:09:39,620
 After school programs, crime watch, there's actually a pantry they have on site, and so

1781
02:09:39,620 --> 02:09:45,620
 if someone is in a pinch, they can come down and grab something off the shelf.

1782
02:09:45,620 --> 02:09:50,940
 This doesn't happen a lot, but once in a while it's a very good feature to have.

1783
02:09:50,940 --> 02:09:51,940
 We reached out to the community.

1784
02:09:51,940 --> 02:09:56,540
 We had two community meetings in January and February at Denton Public Library.

1785
02:09:56,540 --> 02:09:58,940
 A few people attended those meetings.

1786
02:09:58,940 --> 02:10:05,900
 We also went door to door and passed out flyers to property owners within the 200 foot area

1787
02:10:05,900 --> 02:10:12,420
 or in that median area, walked the neighborhood.

1788
02:10:12,420 --> 02:10:14,620
 There was an opposition, I think.

1789
02:10:14,620 --> 02:10:19,980
 We noticed that there was a landlord that owned several of the homes or the duplexes,

1790
02:10:19,980 --> 02:10:24,380
 and so it wasn't really the homeowners or even the renters who were opposed to the request.

1791
02:10:24,380 --> 02:10:30,540
 It was literally someone who owns and manages the development, so a lot of times there may

1792
02:10:30,540 --> 02:10:35,060
 be competition reasons there from a rental standpoint as opposed to really being opposed

1793
02:10:35,060 --> 02:10:36,060
 to the project.

1794
02:10:36,060 --> 02:10:43,540
 We had a lot of support or no objection to this project as we engaged the neighbors.

1795
02:10:43,540 --> 02:10:44,540
 Here's a look at the developments.

1796
02:10:44,540 --> 02:10:45,620
 It's a 3D rendering.

1797
02:10:45,620 --> 02:10:50,940
 Staff showed you how it will look along Fall Meadow, the 10 foot sidewalk, and we're also

1798
02:10:50,940 --> 02:10:55,700
 expanding Fall Meadow as well.

1799
02:10:55,700 --> 02:10:59,940
 Staff had a good recommendation of providing a massing study that shows how the three-story

1800
02:10:59,940 --> 02:11:05,060
 building will look amid the two-story building and one and two-story duplexes on the west

1801
02:11:05,060 --> 02:11:06,060
 side.

1802
02:11:06,060 --> 02:11:12,820
 Thought it sits really well on the property and on the street.

1803
02:11:12,820 --> 02:11:19,140
 I'll summarize, Polanium does deliver best-in-class communities, several communities in DFW, both

1804
02:11:19,140 --> 02:11:20,140
 market-rate and affordable.

1805
02:11:20,140 --> 02:11:25,060
 They're a long-term owner and will be a community member in Denton as opposed to just being

1806
02:11:25,060 --> 02:11:27,540
 a merchant builder.

1807
02:11:27,540 --> 02:11:31,480
 Multifamily is compatible with the zoning and the multifamily and duplex medium densities

1808
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:32,480
 around us.

1809
02:11:32,480 --> 02:11:35,420
 It's a well-designed neighborhood and pedestrian friendly.

1810
02:11:35,420 --> 02:11:40,060
 Staff had some good recommendations on connecting our pedestrians to the 10 foot sidewalk on

1811
02:11:40,060 --> 02:11:41,060
 the street as well.

1812
02:11:41,060 --> 02:11:45,940
 So this will provide much needed workforce housing in Denton.

1813
02:11:45,940 --> 02:11:50,820
 We'd ask you to follow staff's recommendation and also council's resolution of support

1814
02:11:50,820 --> 02:11:58,300
 that was approved on February 2025 and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

1815
02:11:58,300 --> 02:11:59,300
 Thank you.

1816
02:11:59,300 --> 02:12:02,700
 Any questions from the commission?

1817
02:12:02,700 --> 02:12:03,700
 Commissioner MacDuff?

1818
02:12:03,700 --> 02:12:09,780
 Just to comment, I'm pleased that this is closer to downtown Denton than the heart of

1819
02:12:09,780 --> 02:12:16,180
 the city.

1820
02:12:16,180 --> 02:12:18,320
 Commissioner Pedrone?

1821
02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:23,180
 How often are the literacy classes provided?

1822
02:12:23,180 --> 02:12:25,700
 I could ask Kim Parker to address that.

1823
02:12:25,700 --> 02:12:32,300
 I know it's not, I don't think it's very often, but it's sort of as needed and they partner

1824
02:12:32,300 --> 02:12:38,900
 with, I don't want to speak to that exactly, but thank you, Kim.

1825
02:12:38,900 --> 02:12:41,900
 Hi, Kim Parker with Palladium.

1826
02:12:41,900 --> 02:12:48,340
 We use Regions Bank, who's one of our lenders, who offers free financial literacy classes

1827
02:12:48,340 --> 02:12:50,900
 to our residents.

1828
02:12:50,900 --> 02:12:57,180
 We have classes scheduled every month for different topics, so we may have a meeting

1829
02:12:57,180 --> 02:13:05,540
 on how to repair your credit or how to save for a home or how to budget, basic budgeting

1830
02:13:05,540 --> 02:13:10,260
 expenses, at least once a month at every property.

1831
02:13:10,260 --> 02:13:11,260
 That's awesome.

1832
02:13:11,260 --> 02:13:15,700
 What's the normal or average turnout for the classes?

1833
02:13:15,700 --> 02:13:22,140
 We'll get anywhere from, let's say, five to maybe 12 people that will show up.

1834
02:13:22,140 --> 02:13:23,420
 It's all in how we market it.

1835
02:13:23,420 --> 02:13:28,580
 First of all, we have to make sure that people know about it, but we're really thrilled that

1836
02:13:28,580 --> 02:13:34,020
 we can lean upon one of our financial partners to do this for our residents so they're not

1837
02:13:34,020 --> 02:13:39,140
 just lending money for the development, they're also enhancing the lives of our residents,

1838
02:13:39,140 --> 02:13:40,140
 which is really important.

1839
02:13:40,140 --> 02:13:41,140
 Awesome.

1840
02:13:41,140 --> 02:13:42,140
 Thank you.

1841
02:13:42,140 --> 02:13:43,140
 Thank you.

1842
02:13:43,140 --> 02:13:44,140
 Commissioner Dyer?

1843
02:13:44,140 --> 02:13:52,780
 You showed some pictures of a kids' space, a room for kids, and exercise room and all

1844
02:13:52,780 --> 02:13:53,780
 that.

1845
02:13:53,780 --> 02:13:55,340
 Where is that located on the site plan?

1846
02:13:55,340 --> 02:13:58,020
 It's actually in the building.

1847
02:13:58,020 --> 02:13:59,980
 The interior spaces are in the building.

1848
02:13:59,980 --> 02:14:05,220
 They'll be located on the western section of the building in the middle.

1849
02:14:05,220 --> 02:14:06,900
 You see the main entrance.

1850
02:14:06,900 --> 02:14:07,900
 The double doors there?

1851
02:14:07,900 --> 02:14:13,580
 Yeah, where the ADA spaces are, and then head east into the main building there in that

1852
02:14:13,580 --> 02:14:14,580
 area.

1853
02:14:14,580 --> 02:14:15,580
 Okay.

1854
02:14:15,580 --> 02:14:16,580
 Thank you.

1855
02:14:16,580 --> 02:14:21,020
 I do have a question.

1856
02:14:21,020 --> 02:14:23,740
 You mentioned that there was a council resolution of support.

1857
02:14:23,740 --> 02:14:30,660
 Is this a tax credit financed project with a non-profit partner, or is this a for-profit

1858
02:14:30,660 --> 02:14:34,220
 that's still on the tax rolls once it gets ...

1859
02:14:34,220 --> 02:14:36,460
 It is a tax credit deal.

1860
02:14:36,460 --> 02:14:37,460
 Okay.

1861
02:14:37,460 --> 02:14:40,780
 I don't know if it's ... Yeah, answer that Mark.

1862
02:14:40,780 --> 02:14:42,300
 It's a for-profit development.

1863
02:14:42,300 --> 02:14:48,340
 We will be paying full property taxes, but it will be financing the development with

1864
02:14:48,340 --> 02:14:50,140
 9% housing tax credits.

1865
02:14:50,140 --> 02:14:51,140
 Okay.

1866
02:14:51,140 --> 02:14:52,140
 Thank you.

1867
02:14:52,140 --> 02:14:56,860
 Any other questions for the applicant at this time?

1868
02:14:56,860 --> 02:14:58,500
 Can I piggyback on to your question?

1869
02:14:58,500 --> 02:14:59,500
 Yes, please do.

1870
02:14:59,500 --> 02:15:04,740
 Was that a unanimous vote by the city council?

1871
02:15:04,740 --> 02:15:10,500
 Yeah.

1872
02:15:10,500 --> 02:15:11,500
 I don't recall.

1873
02:15:11,500 --> 02:15:14,580
 I think that vote was at least a year ago.

1874
02:15:14,580 --> 02:15:16,580
 Does staff have record of that?

1875
02:15:16,580 --> 02:15:20,900
 I do not, but I would encourage you to focus on the merits of the land use request that's

1876
02:15:20,900 --> 02:15:21,900
 this evening.

1877
02:15:21,900 --> 02:15:22,900
 Okay.

1878
02:15:22,900 --> 02:15:23,900
 Okay.

1879
02:15:23,900 --> 02:15:27,260
 This is a public hearing.

1880
02:15:27,260 --> 02:15:33,060
 I will reopen the public hearing since we were at recess.

1881
02:15:33,060 --> 02:15:38,820
 I do have one card, so I will invite that person up to speak at this time.

1882
02:15:38,820 --> 02:15:43,940
 That is Prudence Sanchez, I believe.

1883
02:15:43,940 --> 02:15:47,780
 Please come forward and state your name and address, and you'll have four minutes.

1884
02:15:47,780 --> 02:15:48,780
 Yes.

1885
02:15:48,780 --> 02:15:49,780
 My name is Prudence Sanchez.

1886
02:15:49,780 --> 02:15:52,940
 I live at 711 Jackson Street here in Den.

1887
02:15:52,940 --> 02:16:00,900
 I own property on Fall Meadow and Garden View, so I take objection to Mr. Maxwell's portrayal

1888
02:16:00,900 --> 02:16:04,300
 of the battle landlord not wanting competition.

1889
02:16:04,300 --> 02:16:06,300
 I'm familiar with that area.

1890
02:16:06,300 --> 02:16:11,940
 I am not opposed to development of that space that they would like to develop.

1891
02:16:11,940 --> 02:16:20,080
 I believe that 120 units is far too many for the congestion that's already there for the

1892
02:16:20,080 --> 02:16:25,860
 little narrow streets that are already there, that people are already parking alongside

1893
02:16:25,860 --> 02:16:30,700
 for the children that are walking on the little narrow sidewalks.

1894
02:16:30,700 --> 02:16:37,060
 I believe it's going to cause drainage problems because it's going to take away a lot of the

1895
02:16:37,060 --> 02:16:43,340
 green space that allows the water to go into the ground and into the drainage ditch that's

1896
02:16:43,340 --> 02:16:45,300
 along that property.

1897
02:16:45,300 --> 02:16:47,140
 I'm concerned about traffic.

1898
02:16:47,140 --> 02:16:53,980
 I'm concerned about being able to come in and out, especially evacuation, if needed.

1899
02:16:53,980 --> 02:16:58,540
 I am a landowner, I'm a property manager.

1900
02:16:58,540 --> 02:17:04,260
 I support a landowner being able to use their property to the best use.

1901
02:17:04,260 --> 02:17:08,500
 I, however, feel like 120 units are way too much.

1902
02:17:08,500 --> 02:17:15,620
 They are correct when they say that there are lots of multi-family there already.

1903
02:17:15,620 --> 02:17:16,620
 That's true.

1904
02:17:16,620 --> 02:17:24,220
 Kingswood Apartments, Den North Apartments, and my concern is we're going to start looking

1905
02:17:24,220 --> 02:17:32,820
 like cement city really close to UNT, so I just hope that this development doesn't cause

1906
02:17:32,820 --> 02:17:33,820
 a lot of problems.

1907
02:17:33,820 --> 02:17:36,580
 I hope the children stay safe in the neighborhood.

1908
02:17:36,580 --> 02:17:41,300
 That's been an area that has been known in the past for high crime because of the amount

1909
02:17:41,300 --> 02:17:43,020
 of units that are there.

1910
02:17:43,020 --> 02:17:48,380
 I believe in the last few years it's gotten better, and those are just the concerns that

1911
02:17:48,380 --> 02:17:49,380
 I have.

1912
02:17:49,380 --> 02:17:51,380
 I'm not afraid of competition.

1913
02:17:51,380 --> 02:17:56,860
 I'm not afraid of a person using their land, so I do take issue with that statement.

1914
02:17:56,860 --> 02:18:01,780
 That's not what us landlords and property owners are concerned about.

1915
02:18:01,780 --> 02:18:05,820
 Thank you.

1916
02:18:05,820 --> 02:18:08,820
 Commissioner Patron?

1917
02:18:08,820 --> 02:18:12,260
 Was there a traffic impact study?

1918
02:18:12,260 --> 02:18:14,700
 Just to kind of touch upon the comments.

1919
02:18:14,700 --> 02:18:17,100
 Chair, may I address a few of the questions?

1920
02:18:17,100 --> 02:18:22,140
 I have some slides that will help address those as well.

1921
02:18:22,140 --> 02:18:23,140
 Sure.

1922
02:18:23,140 --> 02:18:26,220
 Yeah, here's our traffic impact analysis.

1923
02:18:26,220 --> 02:18:37,300
 We did a full analysis, and we'll have approximately 850 trips per day, usually under the threshold

1924
02:18:37,300 --> 02:18:38,740
 of even requiring a TIA.

1925
02:18:38,740 --> 02:18:45,700
 It's usually around 1,000, and we'll have no more than about 45 turns at peak hour,

1926
02:18:45,700 --> 02:18:47,980
 so it's fairly minimal.

1927
02:18:47,980 --> 02:18:52,460
 The transportation department looked at it, and they were fine understanding it's had

1928
02:18:52,460 --> 02:18:58,780
 a dead end, but we have two points of access, and that was appropriate.

1929
02:18:58,780 --> 02:19:06,140
 And then parking, we basically did a parking demand analysis.

1930
02:19:06,140 --> 02:19:14,400
 We took a count of the number of cars at 2 a.m. during the week from a few of our properties,

1931
02:19:14,400 --> 02:19:16,540
 and this shows exactly what we need.

1932
02:19:16,540 --> 02:19:20,500
 Sorry, that's bad coloring there.

1933
02:19:20,500 --> 02:19:21,500
 We'll fix that.

1934
02:19:21,500 --> 02:19:32,420
 Essentially, we need 0.68 cars per bedroom, which would require 155 cars, and we have

1935
02:19:32,420 --> 02:19:39,260
 169 spaces, so we know exactly what we need, and so we won't be, you know, congesting

1936
02:19:39,260 --> 02:19:40,260
 the streets.

1937
02:19:40,260 --> 02:19:45,500
 We'll be parking totally on-site, so hopefully that addresses your question.

1938
02:19:45,500 --> 02:19:50,060
 The landscaping, I mean, staff did an excellent job of helping us navigate the landscaping

1939
02:19:50,060 --> 02:19:51,140
 centers.

1940
02:19:51,140 --> 02:19:53,420
 This is not going to be all paving.

1941
02:19:53,420 --> 02:19:54,420
 It's well-landscaped.

1942
02:19:54,420 --> 02:19:55,420
 It's well-treated.

1943
02:19:55,420 --> 02:20:01,140
 I mean, you all know as well, Denton's landscaping code is not on the wider end.

1944
02:20:01,140 --> 02:20:06,340
 It's more robust than a lot of cities, so we're forced to do that, and we will.

1945
02:20:06,340 --> 02:20:11,220
 We're happy to do it, so we think we're going to be a great addition to the neighborhood.

1946
02:20:11,220 --> 02:20:12,660
 Those apartments there are older.

1947
02:20:12,660 --> 02:20:16,480
 They're more several, a couple generations older.

1948
02:20:16,480 --> 02:20:17,480
 They're actually not that dense.

1949
02:20:17,480 --> 02:20:20,900
 They're only two-story, but they're also totally full, so there's a need for this

1950
02:20:20,900 --> 02:20:28,580
 housing, and we'd like to bring it to the city, so thank you.

1951
02:20:28,580 --> 02:20:30,380
 Any other questions?

1952
02:20:30,380 --> 02:20:31,380
 Commissioner?

1953
02:20:31,380 --> 02:20:37,460
 You talked about the parking, and that there'll be plenty of spaces for the tenants.

1954
02:20:37,460 --> 02:20:39,100
 What about the people that visit them?

1955
02:20:39,100 --> 02:20:40,860
 Where will they be able to park?

1956
02:20:40,860 --> 02:20:46,660
 Yeah, so the important thing is to identify peak demand, and so even though there are

1957
02:20:46,660 --> 02:20:51,300
 not guests in the middle of the night, some of the residents are gone during the day,

1958
02:20:51,300 --> 02:20:56,180
 so true peak hour is at night, and so a lot of the residents are gone maybe when there's

1959
02:20:56,180 --> 02:21:01,780
 some visitors, so we've accounted for, let's say, some of the residents are not there in

1960
02:21:01,780 --> 02:21:04,620
 the afternoon or in the morning when there's a visitor.

1961
02:21:04,620 --> 02:21:11,620
 That compensates and allows that guest parking.

1962
02:21:11,620 --> 02:21:15,980
 I think you mentioned in your presentation that one of those streets, you'll be improving

1963
02:21:15,980 --> 02:21:17,580
 and widening slightly.

1964
02:21:17,580 --> 02:21:20,860
 Will that allow more street parking for the rest of the neighborhood?

1965
02:21:20,860 --> 02:21:26,980
 I'm not aware of street parking, something we're proposing or allowed on that street,

1966
02:21:26,980 --> 02:21:31,500
 but we are widening the street, in addition to the 10-foot sidewalk that we're also going

1967
02:21:31,500 --> 02:21:32,500
 to be building.

1968
02:21:32,500 --> 02:21:43,020
 I'm not sure the parking is ... Yeah, if there's a staff member that can address that.

1969
02:21:43,020 --> 02:21:46,460
 We wouldn't want to congest the street.

1970
02:21:46,460 --> 02:21:56,500
 So parking is allowed on city streets unless it is signed to no parking.

1971
02:21:56,500 --> 02:22:00,040
 This is a public hearing, so if you haven't filled out a card, you're welcome to come

1972
02:22:00,040 --> 02:22:02,700
 down and share your thoughts or questions.

1973
02:22:02,700 --> 02:22:11,540
 If you have any, not seeing any motion, I will close the public hearing and open the

1974
02:22:11,540 --> 02:22:17,860
 floor for discussion or questions of staff as we deliberate.

1975
02:22:17,860 --> 02:22:21,380
 Commissioner Pedron, you're on the board.

1976
02:22:21,380 --> 02:22:26,140
 Are you ... Okay.

1977
02:22:26,140 --> 02:22:27,140
 Seems quiet.

1978
02:22:27,140 --> 02:22:29,900
 I'll offer a couple thoughts to get the ball rolling here.

1979
02:22:29,900 --> 02:22:44,820
 I think that this is a unique area that has access to a couple schools within half a mile

1980
02:22:44,820 --> 02:22:47,420
 and a library and other sorts of things.

1981
02:22:47,420 --> 02:22:56,460
 I'm glad that the street grid here is still somewhat intact so that there is that walkable

1982
02:22:56,460 --> 02:23:00,280
 and bikeable access to those amenities.

1983
02:23:00,280 --> 02:23:04,380
 I guess I do have one question for staff.

1984
02:23:04,380 --> 02:23:08,680
 Could you just give an overview specifically to the public comment that was made about

1985
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:17,160
 drainage on what our process is for requiring drainage during construction and after construction

1986
02:23:17,160 --> 02:23:23,500
 and what nearby residents should do if they notice something that has gotten worse during

1987
02:23:23,500 --> 02:23:24,500
 that period?

1988
02:23:24,500 --> 02:23:25,500
 Does that make sense?

1989
02:23:25,500 --> 02:23:29,260
 I can definitely speak to the fact that, obviously, this will have to go through civil engineering

1990
02:23:29,260 --> 02:23:35,220
 plan review and studies will have to be submitted showing that this will have no negative impacts

1991
02:23:35,220 --> 02:23:39,260
 so we cannot have flows increased to surrounding properties.

1992
02:23:39,260 --> 02:23:44,380
 We also can't have flows significantly redirected on surrounding properties.

1993
02:23:44,380 --> 02:23:47,420
 That's something that will have to be studied robustly and established.

1994
02:23:47,420 --> 02:23:52,220
 In addition, before you can begin construction, we always have to have a review by our folks

1995
02:23:52,220 --> 02:23:57,100
 and watershed to make sure that erosion control is in place, that we're not going to be creating

1996
02:23:57,100 --> 02:23:59,620
 issues mid project.

1997
02:23:59,620 --> 02:24:03,540
 Certainly if there is a problem, residents are more than welcome to reach out whether

1998
02:24:03,540 --> 02:24:10,020
 that would be 311, whether that would be to the -- we have inspectors for our public works

1999
02:24:10,020 --> 02:24:11,020
 projects.

2000
02:24:11,020 --> 02:24:13,580
 Certainly happy to assist with that if there is a concern.

2001
02:24:13,580 --> 02:24:14,580
 Okay.

2002
02:24:14,580 --> 02:24:15,580
 Thank you.

2003
02:24:15,580 --> 02:24:16,580
 Any other questions?

2004
02:24:16,580 --> 02:24:17,580
 Commissioner -- I'm sorry.

2005
02:24:17,580 --> 02:24:18,580
 I'm heading off.

2006
02:24:18,580 --> 02:24:23,140
 I'm bad with names, too.

2007
02:24:23,140 --> 02:24:24,940
 It's fine.

2008
02:24:24,940 --> 02:24:25,940
 Yes.

2009
02:24:25,940 --> 02:24:31,140
 So I just have a comment and it's not a question, but I do feel like this is a good use of that

2010
02:24:31,140 --> 02:24:44,700
 space and I do think it's something that's needed and meets the zoning, so I'm in support

2011
02:24:44,700 --> 02:24:45,700
 of it.

2012
02:24:45,700 --> 02:24:46,700
 Okay.

2013
02:24:46,700 --> 02:24:47,700
 Okay.

2014
02:24:47,700 --> 02:24:53,660
 I guess your comment about being close into schools made me also think that this is also

2015
02:24:53,660 --> 02:25:01,740
 close to a grocery store and so I appreciate being closer to the -- not right on downtown

2016
02:25:01,740 --> 02:25:02,740
 but closer in.

2017
02:25:02,740 --> 02:25:03,740
 Yeah.

2018
02:25:03,740 --> 02:25:09,180
 Yeah, and I'm just -- I'm thankful for all the creativity that went into this project

2019
02:25:09,180 --> 02:25:17,540
 between staff and the applicant, you know, things that I see when I look at it are okay,

2020
02:25:17,540 --> 02:25:22,380
 maybe people don't like the way a square looks, but with current fire codes that's the only

2021
02:25:22,380 --> 02:25:27,580
 way you get multiple bedroom units, essentially, is to have corners, exterior corners.

2022
02:25:27,580 --> 02:25:36,180
 So I see a lot of reasons why this design coalesced to this, so good job.

2023
02:25:36,180 --> 02:25:43,020
 I'll just remind the commission that if you are having questions or misgivings, you know,

2024
02:25:43,020 --> 02:25:49,740
 it helps our staff to explain those concerns so that we can either find a resolution to

2025
02:25:49,740 --> 02:25:56,780
 them here on the dais or they can take direction for future projects and things, but I'll open

2026
02:25:56,780 --> 02:26:00,900
 the floor for a motion, so there's no other questions.

2027
02:26:00,900 --> 02:26:01,900
 Commissioner Riggs.

2028
02:26:01,900 --> 02:26:04,620
 I make a motion to approve.

2029
02:26:04,620 --> 02:26:06,460
 Commissioner MacDuff.

2030
02:26:06,460 --> 02:26:08,260
 A motion to second.

2031
02:26:08,260 --> 02:26:13,220
 Can I clarify, Commissioner Riggs, there are some staff conditions listed?

2032
02:26:13,220 --> 02:26:15,180
 Absolutely, yes, with staff recommend.

2033
02:26:15,180 --> 02:26:16,180
 Okay.

2034
02:26:16,180 --> 02:26:17,180
 And Commissioner MacDuff, your second still stands.

2035
02:26:17,180 --> 02:26:19,980
 Yes, a motion to approve with staff recommendations.

2036
02:26:19,980 --> 02:26:20,980
 Okay.

2037
02:26:20,980 --> 02:26:23,620
 Thank you.

2038
02:26:23,620 --> 02:26:31,540
 Not seeing any more questions, I'll call for a vote on the board.

2039
02:26:31,540 --> 02:26:33,940
 That item passes 6-0.

2040
02:26:33,940 --> 02:26:41,940
 That brings us to our last public hearing of the night, item 5C, Z25-0007, and I want

2041
02:26:41,940 --> 02:26:47,700
 to thank the members of the public who have been patient tonight with us.

2042
02:26:47,700 --> 02:27:02,820
 Good evening, Julie Wyatt, I'm presenting Z25-0007 to you tonight.

2043
02:27:02,820 --> 02:27:09,500
 So the request before you is to rezone approximately 1.09 acres from Residential 2 District to

2044
02:27:09,500 --> 02:27:12,300
 Mixed Use Neighborhood District.

2045
02:27:12,300 --> 02:27:18,540
 The property is currently developed, it's three tracks, or three lots, two of those

2046
02:27:18,540 --> 02:27:24,020
 lots are developed with a commercial building and a parking area, and then the third lot

2047
02:27:24,020 --> 02:27:26,700
 is not developed.

2048
02:27:26,700 --> 02:27:33,740
 The purpose is to reestablish a previously open retail use on the property, it was established

2049
02:27:33,740 --> 02:27:40,060
 in the early 1970s, that operation ceased in 2023.

2050
02:27:40,060 --> 02:27:47,620
 The property is located in the west part of town on the north side of 380 West University,

2051
02:27:47,620 --> 02:27:50,660
 as shown on your screen.

2052
02:27:50,660 --> 02:27:54,700
 So before I get into the nitty-gritty of the rezoning, I just want to take a brief moment

2053
02:27:54,700 --> 02:27:57,460
 to talk about the history of the property.

2054
02:27:57,460 --> 02:28:01,020
 I won't read the slide, I just want to hit some highlights.

2055
02:28:01,020 --> 02:28:07,060
 As I mentioned, the commercial use opened prior to annexation, so sometime in the early

2056
02:28:07,060 --> 02:28:12,220
 '70s, and then the property was annexed into the city in 1974.

2057
02:28:12,220 --> 02:28:16,760
 The area in red was rezoned in '76.

2058
02:28:16,760 --> 02:28:22,380
 So as we talked about earlier in the work session, when this property was annexed, it

2059
02:28:22,380 --> 02:28:26,300
 annexed with that placeholder zoning of agriculture.

2060
02:28:26,300 --> 02:28:32,020
 It was rezoned in '76 for that general retail to address that nonconformity, because the

2061
02:28:32,020 --> 02:28:34,580
 existing commercial use was there.

2062
02:28:34,580 --> 02:28:41,100
 The area in yellow was zoned with a planned development subsequent to that, for mini storage,

2063
02:28:41,100 --> 02:28:42,980
 but that was never developed.

2064
02:28:42,980 --> 02:28:48,460
 There were a couple of COs that were issued for the property for that commercial use retail

2065
02:28:48,460 --> 02:28:51,020
 restaurant bar.

2066
02:28:51,020 --> 02:28:56,780
 And then in 2002, the city adopted a new development code, the Denton Development Code, and the

2067
02:28:56,780 --> 02:29:02,460
 entire city was rezoned, and at that time, the property was rezoned from general retail

2068
02:29:02,460 --> 02:29:05,740
 to neighborhood residential two.

2069
02:29:05,740 --> 02:29:12,300
 Neighborhood residential two is one of our low-density single-family residential neighborhoods

2070
02:29:12,300 --> 02:29:18,740
 that did not permit the use, but the 2002 Denton Development Code had a special provision

2071
02:29:18,740 --> 02:29:21,280
 called a special exception.

2072
02:29:21,280 --> 02:29:23,340
 That didn't make the use nonconforming.

2073
02:29:23,340 --> 02:29:28,580
 It allowed the use to continue, and that if something happened to the building, if it

2074
02:29:28,580 --> 02:29:32,700
 burned or if they wanted to expand it, they could do that under that special exception

2075
02:29:32,700 --> 02:29:33,700
 provision.

2076
02:29:33,700 --> 02:29:42,060
 In 2019, we updated our Denton Development Code, the zoning then transitioned to R2.

2077
02:29:42,060 --> 02:29:47,100
 The special exception provision was removed from our regulations, and so that thus made

2078
02:29:47,100 --> 02:29:49,660
 the building and that use nonconforming.

2079
02:29:49,660 --> 02:29:53,140
 It was a nonconforming use.

2080
02:29:53,140 --> 02:29:58,380
 It was still open as a retail and restaurant establishment.

2081
02:29:58,380 --> 02:30:04,060
 It continued on until about 2023 is what we can determine, and at that point, that use

2082
02:30:04,060 --> 02:30:05,060
 went away.

2083
02:30:05,060 --> 02:30:10,540
 The building was sold, and so that is where it lands us to today.

2084
02:30:10,540 --> 02:30:16,580
 So sorry for that brief interlude into the history, but I wanted to make sure that we

2085
02:30:16,580 --> 02:30:18,420
 went over that briefly.

2086
02:30:18,420 --> 02:30:27,740
 So now the current request is to rezone the property from that R2 to the mixed use neighborhood

2087
02:30:27,740 --> 02:30:28,740
 MN.

2088
02:30:28,740 --> 02:30:33,940
 Sorry, my label is incorrect on this map.

2089
02:30:33,940 --> 02:30:38,660
 So the map on the left, that is the current zoning.

2090
02:30:38,660 --> 02:30:40,740
 That shows that yellow, that R2.

2091
02:30:40,740 --> 02:30:45,060
 The map on the right has the purple shading on the subject property.

2092
02:30:45,060 --> 02:30:47,780
 It has an incorrect label that should be MN.

2093
02:30:47,780 --> 02:30:49,380
 That is the proposed zoning.

2094
02:30:49,380 --> 02:30:55,180
 R2, as I mentioned earlier, is intended for single-family residential, more suburban type

2095
02:30:55,180 --> 02:30:59,500
 development to protect single-family neighborhoods.

2096
02:30:59,500 --> 02:31:01,540
 MN district is a little different.

2097
02:31:01,540 --> 02:31:06,500
 It's intended to provide a bridge between kind of single-family areas and maybe more

2098
02:31:06,500 --> 02:31:14,300
 high-density areas or high-impact areas, kind of between that bridge between those residential

2099
02:31:14,300 --> 02:31:21,580
 areas and the mixed use or larger mixed use and commercial properties.

2100
02:31:21,580 --> 02:31:26,940
 The criteria for approval is in subchapter 2 of the Denton Development Code.

2101
02:31:26,940 --> 02:31:29,900
 And I won't read all of them to you.

2102
02:31:29,900 --> 02:31:35,500
 Staff has analyzed the project and has determined it meets the criteria for approval.

2103
02:31:35,500 --> 02:31:40,180
 In particular, it is the proposed rezoning is consistent with the purpose statement of

2104
02:31:40,180 --> 02:31:41,660
 MN.

2105
02:31:41,660 --> 02:31:46,380
 It's generally consistent with the future land use and overall goals of the comprehensive

2106
02:31:46,380 --> 02:31:47,380
 plan.

2107
02:31:47,380 --> 02:31:51,820
 Any redevelopment of the property would have to comply with the Denton Development Code

2108
02:31:51,820 --> 02:31:52,820
 regulations.

2109
02:31:52,820 --> 02:31:59,980
 So currently, the property owner is not attending to redevelop the property, but if it did happen,

2110
02:31:59,980 --> 02:32:03,740
 all code requirements would be required.

2111
02:32:03,740 --> 02:32:09,220
 And that would be in addition to drainage, floodplain, and ESA requirements.

2112
02:32:09,220 --> 02:32:16,460
 And then we don't anticipate the zoning to generate significant adverse impacts to compatibility

2113
02:32:16,460 --> 02:32:19,260
 infrastructure and fiscal impacts.

2114
02:32:19,260 --> 02:32:21,700
 And we'll go over these just briefly.

2115
02:32:21,700 --> 02:32:24,100
 So first of all, the comprehensive plan.

2116
02:32:24,100 --> 02:32:29,500
 The future land use designation for the property is moderate residential.

2117
02:32:29,500 --> 02:32:37,020
 Typically for moderate residential, we want to see more moderate densities and residential

2118
02:32:37,020 --> 02:32:38,020
 development.

2119
02:32:38,020 --> 02:32:42,100
 So we have between 5 and 12 dwelling units per acre is what we want to see.

2120
02:32:42,100 --> 02:32:48,140
 But it does allow for commercial uses because we do want to have commercial uses near areas

2121
02:32:48,140 --> 02:32:56,460
 of residential areas and areas with density to provide that necessary shopping and services

2122
02:32:56,460 --> 02:32:58,740
 for community members.

2123
02:32:58,740 --> 02:33:04,940
 So it is consistent with that as it does provide that commercial opportunity near an area of

2124
02:33:04,940 --> 02:33:07,940
 residential development.

2125
02:33:07,940 --> 02:33:12,340
 It is also, it's also consistent and that it does provide that transition.

2126
02:33:12,340 --> 02:33:19,260
 So it provides that buffer between the residential properties to the north and then the high

2127
02:33:19,260 --> 02:33:26,420
 speed high traffic roadway that is West University to the south.

2128
02:33:26,420 --> 02:33:32,380
 We also looked at the preferred land preservation plan that's within our comprehensive plan.

2129
02:33:32,380 --> 02:33:37,900
 And I do want to point to the map on the lower map on your screen.

2130
02:33:37,900 --> 02:33:43,660
 That does show that the property is within that preferred land preservation plan.

2131
02:33:43,660 --> 02:33:45,420
 And you can see that blue shading.

2132
02:33:45,420 --> 02:33:48,820
 And that really is due to floodplain on the property.

2133
02:33:48,820 --> 02:33:52,380
 As I mentioned in the backup, there is floodplain on the site.

2134
02:33:52,380 --> 02:33:56,060
 It does encumber quite a bit of the property.

2135
02:33:56,060 --> 02:34:03,300
 In fact, it covers the entire eastern lot and then a large portion of that western lot

2136
02:34:03,300 --> 02:34:05,660
 including clipping the building.

2137
02:34:05,660 --> 02:34:13,040
 That would prevent a lot of redevelopment potential for the property.

2138
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:14,940
 And we'll talk about that in just a minute.

2139
02:34:14,940 --> 02:34:22,580
 But in terms of the land preservation plan, given the surrounding development, that much

2140
02:34:22,580 --> 02:34:28,380
 of this floodplain corridor is already developed, we don't anticipate that this could serve

2141
02:34:28,380 --> 02:34:30,820
 as something like a wildlife corridor.

2142
02:34:30,820 --> 02:34:37,260
 I would also mention that any development of the property would require an ESA field

2143
02:34:37,260 --> 02:34:42,080
 assessment to determine if there are any environmentally sensitive areas on the property.

2144
02:34:42,080 --> 02:34:45,540
 And that would be required before any redevelopment.

2145
02:34:45,540 --> 02:34:50,660
 If they did want to impact that ESA, if that ESA is present, they would have to get approval

2146
02:34:50,660 --> 02:34:54,180
 of an alternative ESA plan.

2147
02:34:54,180 --> 02:34:55,540
 So we also look at impacts.

2148
02:34:55,540 --> 02:34:58,660
 In addition to the comprehensive plan, we want to see what's on the ground and see how

2149
02:34:58,660 --> 02:35:02,300
 their requests could impact the surrounding properties.

2150
02:35:02,300 --> 02:35:08,740
 So in terms of the zoning and those impacts, MN District is one of those districts that

2151
02:35:08,740 --> 02:35:11,500
 limits more auto-oriented uses.

2152
02:35:11,500 --> 02:35:16,980
 It's intended to be a little bit smaller, walkable type zoning district.

2153
02:35:16,980 --> 02:35:21,780
 And so it would require approval of an SUP for something like drive-through restaurants,

2154
02:35:21,780 --> 02:35:23,940
 automotive fuel sales, and bars.

2155
02:35:23,940 --> 02:35:30,180
 So those types of uses that could create more of those larger impacts to the surrounding

2156
02:35:30,180 --> 02:35:31,180
 property.

2157
02:35:31,180 --> 02:35:39,420
 MN also would require a buffer and 40% tree canopy for any redevelopment of the site.

2158
02:35:39,420 --> 02:35:43,900
 So once again, if the property owner did decide to redevelop the site, there would be those

2159
02:35:43,900 --> 02:35:49,780
 protections within MN that would make it more compatible with the surrounding residential.

2160
02:35:49,780 --> 02:35:55,460
 That smaller property size, you know, it's one acre, and the floodplain really do limit

2161
02:35:55,460 --> 02:35:58,380
 the amount of development intensity on the property.

2162
02:35:58,380 --> 02:36:04,740
 It's pretty encumbered by that floodplain, and you can see that on the map.

2163
02:36:04,740 --> 02:36:08,100
 And then finally, right now, the building is not being used.

2164
02:36:08,100 --> 02:36:15,160
 It is vacant, and rezoning could allow the building to be reused to keep that maintenance

2165
02:36:15,160 --> 02:36:19,060
 on the property and activate that space.

2166
02:36:19,060 --> 02:36:25,940
 In terms of infrastructure impacts, TIA was not required because it did not meet the threshold

2167
02:36:25,940 --> 02:36:27,400
 for the number of trips per day.

2168
02:36:27,400 --> 02:36:33,420
 So they anticipate there will be 462 trips per day, which is less than 1,000 for the

2169
02:36:33,420 --> 02:36:34,420
 threshold.

2170
02:36:34,420 --> 02:36:40,420
 Afternoon, they anticipate will be the peak, and there is adequate capacity on West University.

2171
02:36:40,420 --> 02:36:44,700
 And then water, wastewater, right now, all of the properties, this subject site, as well

2172
02:36:44,700 --> 02:36:49,420
 as the properties to the north, do have well and septic systems.

2173
02:36:49,420 --> 02:36:53,700
 However, with the development that's going on in the area, in fact, just to the west

2174
02:36:53,700 --> 02:36:56,580
 of the property, there's a new subdivision coming in.

2175
02:36:56,580 --> 02:37:02,140
 Water, these types of infrastructure are coming to the area, and so the property owner could

2176
02:37:02,140 --> 02:37:06,620
 tie on potentially in the future.

2177
02:37:06,620 --> 02:37:08,140
 Notification was sent out.

2178
02:37:08,140 --> 02:37:12,900
 At this time, we have not received any notices or any written responses.

2179
02:37:12,900 --> 02:37:17,920
 The applicant did hold two virtual neighborhood meetings last week.

2180
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:26,020
 And there were several residents of the properties to the north did call in, and they did have

2181
02:37:26,020 --> 02:37:33,340
 concerns about the, currently the property is being used as a bus stop for students,

2182
02:37:33,340 --> 02:37:39,980
 and there were concerns about the use and students at the bus stop.

2183
02:37:39,980 --> 02:37:47,220
 And so, and unfortunately, there's not a lot of options because the property provides that

2184
02:37:47,220 --> 02:37:54,740
 turnaround for the bus that I think makes it convenient for, this is Chrome ISD.

2185
02:37:54,740 --> 02:38:00,980
 So based upon the criteria for approval, staff recommends approval of the zoning change.

2186
02:38:00,980 --> 02:38:06,700
 If it moves forward tonight, the tentative council date is July 15th, and I will be happy

2187
02:38:06,700 --> 02:38:10,260
 to answer any questions, and the applicant is here.

2188
02:38:10,260 --> 02:38:14,100
 Any questions for staff?

2189
02:38:14,100 --> 02:38:17,700
 Commissioner Riggs.

2190
02:38:17,700 --> 02:38:19,260
 I do have a question.

2191
02:38:19,260 --> 02:38:23,500
 You talked about floodplain a little bit, but it's zone X, right?

2192
02:38:23,500 --> 02:38:28,100
 So it's not, I don't know, does the city regulate zone X, or?

2193
02:38:28,100 --> 02:38:29,100
 Yes.

2194
02:38:29,100 --> 02:38:34,300
 There would have to be, and it's in my backup notes, there are provisions that they would

2195
02:38:34,300 --> 02:38:37,740
 have to do if they decided to redevelop.

2196
02:38:37,740 --> 02:38:43,900
 They may have to elevate the property over 18 inches over base flood elevation, or floodproof

2197
02:38:43,900 --> 02:38:45,460
 the property.

2198
02:38:45,460 --> 02:38:51,940
 So there are some things that they may have to do in order to reconstruct a new building.

2199
02:38:51,940 --> 02:38:53,820
 The existing building could stay.

2200
02:38:53,820 --> 02:39:03,660
 Any expansions, any reconstruction would require some additional work.

2201
02:39:03,660 --> 02:39:06,460
 I guess I have one just out of curiosity.

2202
02:39:06,460 --> 02:39:11,620
 You mentioned, it sounded like the history of this property is it was in use until sometime

2203
02:39:11,620 --> 02:39:14,620
 in 2022?

2204
02:39:14,620 --> 02:39:19,380
 I believe, yes, 2022, 2023, sometime around there.

2205
02:39:19,380 --> 02:39:22,380
 Yes, I guess I'm just curious.

2206
02:39:22,380 --> 02:39:29,940
 My understanding of the parking requirements that we have is that they vest for up to two

2207
02:39:29,940 --> 02:39:36,180
 years and then you have to basically meet the current codes parking requirement if you

2208
02:39:36,180 --> 02:39:38,860
 want to resume a previous use.

2209
02:39:38,860 --> 02:39:43,380
 So is there sufficient parking meeting our standards of surface quality and that sort

2210
02:39:43,380 --> 02:39:44,380
 of thing here?

2211
02:39:44,380 --> 02:39:50,940
 We would have to look to see if this goes forward, then they'll have to come in with

2212
02:39:50,940 --> 02:39:56,380
 a plan for us to look at in order to verify.

2213
02:39:56,380 --> 02:40:00,220
 Is there maybe additional parking needed, we just have to take a look and see.

2214
02:40:00,220 --> 02:40:01,220
 Okay.

2215
02:40:01,220 --> 02:40:04,580
 So at this time, it's just the straight zoning because we're not at that phase yet.

2216
02:40:04,580 --> 02:40:05,580
 Correct.

2217
02:40:05,580 --> 02:40:06,580
 Understood.

2218
02:40:06,580 --> 02:40:10,500
 Any other questions?

2219
02:40:10,500 --> 02:40:12,820
 Not seeing any.

2220
02:40:12,820 --> 02:40:21,140
 I'll invite the applicant up before I open the public hearing, Ms. Amy Bissett.

2221
02:40:21,140 --> 02:40:26,140
 You'll have 10 minutes if you'd like it, but often you're more efficient than that.

2222
02:40:26,140 --> 02:40:27,140
 Okay.

2223
02:40:27,140 --> 02:40:28,140
 I'll do my best.

2224
02:40:28,140 --> 02:40:30,740
 Amy Bissett, 109 North Elm, Denton 76201.

2225
02:40:30,740 --> 02:40:38,220
 Let me get my presentation open real quick.

2226
02:40:38,220 --> 02:40:44,540
 So this is a zoning change, as you know, from R2 to a little over one acre.

2227
02:40:44,540 --> 02:40:49,580
 And I want to provide a little bit of context about just from the applicant's side, from

2228
02:40:49,580 --> 02:40:52,680
 my client's side about what has occurred here.

2229
02:40:52,680 --> 02:40:56,500
 So they purchased this property in 2023.

2230
02:40:56,500 --> 02:41:00,740
 When they purchased it, they applied for a zoning verification letter from the city.

2231
02:41:00,740 --> 02:41:06,140
 They received a letter that stated that this is a legal nonconforming use, the retail use

2232
02:41:06,140 --> 02:41:08,400
 that was there at that point in time.

2233
02:41:08,400 --> 02:41:16,500
 I can't trace exactly when the location was, the actual business closed operations, but

2234
02:41:16,500 --> 02:41:18,380
 they received a zoning verification letter.

2235
02:41:18,380 --> 02:41:23,500
 They believed when they purchased the property that they would be allowed to continue the

2236
02:41:23,500 --> 02:41:27,520
 operation as it existed that day.

2237
02:41:27,520 --> 02:41:29,020
 They're not developers.

2238
02:41:29,020 --> 02:41:31,740
 They're not real estate investors.

2239
02:41:31,740 --> 02:41:33,740
 They saw it as a business opportunity.

2240
02:41:33,740 --> 02:41:38,980
 They wanted to be able to purchase the property, continue to operate the business and use that

2241
02:41:38,980 --> 02:41:41,580
 as income for their family.

2242
02:41:41,580 --> 02:41:50,260
 So because they are not real estate developers, they knew they needed a TABC license and they

2243
02:41:50,260 --> 02:41:52,940
 pursued that and received it.

2244
02:41:52,940 --> 02:42:01,220
 They hired a general contractor who began construction on a slight expansion and some

2245
02:42:01,220 --> 02:42:03,020
 remodeling.

2246
02:42:03,020 --> 02:42:05,780
 That general contractor did not pull a permit.

2247
02:42:05,780 --> 02:42:10,360
 My client didn't really understand that there was a permit that needed to be pulled that

2248
02:42:10,360 --> 02:42:12,540
 wasn't pulled at the time.

2249
02:42:12,540 --> 02:42:19,980
 The city identified that work was going without a permit and issued a stop work order.

2250
02:42:19,980 --> 02:42:28,060
 At that point in time, the city wanted to seek solutions, obviously, how do we help

2251
02:42:28,060 --> 02:42:30,180
 you become conforming here?

2252
02:42:30,180 --> 02:42:31,380
 You need a building permit.

2253
02:42:31,380 --> 02:42:36,420
 So the contractor applied for a building permit and when the permit was under review, it was

2254
02:42:36,420 --> 02:42:43,460
 determined that the changes to the existing building warranted an expansion of the legal

2255
02:42:43,460 --> 02:42:49,420
 nonconforming use, which is not permitted under the DDC today.

2256
02:42:49,420 --> 02:42:55,260
 With that, my client was stuck with a building that is, Commissioner McDuff, I heard you

2257
02:42:55,260 --> 02:42:59,980
 say you drive by it all the time during work session, it's in disrepair, it's in very

2258
02:42:59,980 --> 02:43:00,980
 bad shape.

2259
02:43:00,980 --> 02:43:03,020
 I've been out there several times.

2260
02:43:03,020 --> 02:43:06,500
 The contractor started demolition and now it's sitting vacant.

2261
02:43:06,500 --> 02:43:10,340
 It has been sitting vacant since February of 2024.

2262
02:43:10,340 --> 02:43:15,980
 My client is frustrated and concerned because their intention all along was to operate a

2263
02:43:15,980 --> 02:43:19,980
 business that was already in use when they purchased the property and they just made

2264
02:43:19,980 --> 02:43:26,100
 some mistakes in how they went about trying to renovate it.

2265
02:43:26,100 --> 02:43:30,940
 So that's how I got involved essentially is just we met with the city to determine what

2266
02:43:30,940 --> 02:43:35,660
 are our options in terms of bringing them into conformance so that they can continue

2267
02:43:35,660 --> 02:43:39,940
 with their construction, get a building permit and get open and operating again.

2268
02:43:39,940 --> 02:43:47,420
 So I just wanted to provide that context from the perspective of the property owner today.

2269
02:43:47,420 --> 02:43:52,920
 So as Julie mentioned, under the current R2 zoning, you have a vacant commercial building

2270
02:43:52,920 --> 02:43:58,080
 sitting there today, which means it cannot reopen and come into use for anything at this

2271
02:43:58,080 --> 02:43:59,220
 point in time.

2272
02:43:59,220 --> 02:44:07,300
 The legal nonconforming status has expired and the property is going to sit vacant until

2273
02:44:07,300 --> 02:44:10,380
 a zoning change is made at this point in time.

2274
02:44:10,380 --> 02:44:14,300
 There's really no other option other than tearing it down and building a home there,

2275
02:44:14,300 --> 02:44:20,940
 which right on 380 we all know is not really compatible at this time.

2276
02:44:20,940 --> 02:44:24,340
 So we are proposing mixed use neighborhood, Commissioner Prude, I heard your question

2277
02:44:24,340 --> 02:44:29,020
 in a work session about why MN versus SC and I feel like Julie adequately addressed that.

2278
02:44:29,020 --> 02:44:34,080
 We wanted something that is more compatible in scale with the surrounding neighborhood.

2279
02:44:34,080 --> 02:44:37,020
 I do want to share a little bit of history with the neighborhood.

2280
02:44:37,020 --> 02:44:44,620
 So Denton Estates, which I've outlined here, was platted in 1969 and at the time all of

2281
02:44:44,620 --> 02:44:45,980
 it was in the ETJ.

2282
02:44:45,980 --> 02:44:49,980
 You can see kind of the shaded area to the north is still in the ETJ today.

2283
02:44:49,980 --> 02:44:50,980
 It's outside of the city limits.

2284
02:44:50,980 --> 02:44:54,780
 So now part of the neighborhood is in the city limits and part of it is outside of the

2285
02:44:54,780 --> 02:44:55,780
 city limits.

2286
02:44:55,780 --> 02:45:02,940
 So all of the neighborhood is on well and septic today.

2287
02:45:02,940 --> 02:45:08,260
 I do want to mention here that we've had some meetings with the flood payment plan manager

2288
02:45:08,260 --> 02:45:13,540
 with the City of Denton and a floodplain development permit will be required for the footprint

2289
02:45:13,540 --> 02:45:18,100
 expansion to the east, which is a small amount of square footage, does encroach slightly

2290
02:45:18,100 --> 02:45:21,740
 into the floodplain and a permit will be required for that.

2291
02:45:21,740 --> 02:45:26,940
 We're already aware of working with the floodplain manager on that.

2292
02:45:26,940 --> 02:45:30,860
 Here are some renderings of what they had originally envisioned and got started with

2293
02:45:30,860 --> 02:45:34,860
 before the stop work order was issued.

2294
02:45:34,860 --> 02:45:40,100
 We did have a couple of neighborhood meetings last week and had three property owners in

2295
02:45:40,100 --> 02:45:47,820
 attendance and we have three here to speak tonight and I want to share with you what

2296
02:45:47,820 --> 02:45:52,660
 concerns I heard in the meetings last week, but then also make you aware that you'll call

2297
02:45:52,660 --> 02:45:57,700
 three different names tonight, Chair Pruitt, one of them will come up in a company, another

2298
02:45:57,700 --> 02:46:01,660
 one who will need translation assistance.

2299
02:46:01,660 --> 02:46:08,060
 What we heard was that their kids go to Crum ISD and Crum used to route through the neighborhood

2300
02:46:08,060 --> 02:46:13,080
 and pick up all the kids, but the roads have become in disrepair to a point that the school

2301
02:46:13,080 --> 02:46:16,740
 district will no longer pick up the kids at their homes.

2302
02:46:16,740 --> 02:46:23,580
 So right now the Crum school district utilizes the parking lot of this property to pick up

2303
02:46:23,580 --> 02:46:25,060
 the kids.

2304
02:46:25,060 --> 02:46:27,220
 The neighbors are concerned about that.

2305
02:46:27,220 --> 02:46:33,540
 The intention here is for this to be a liquor store and so I understand their concern.

2306
02:46:33,540 --> 02:46:38,560
 We have started exploring some conversations with the city about how can we relocate that

2307
02:46:38,560 --> 02:46:43,220
 bus stop to the other side of my property owner's property, which is in the floodplain,

2308
02:46:43,220 --> 02:46:47,580
 but maybe there's an opportunity to put some gravel in that's permeable where we can pull

2309
02:46:47,580 --> 02:46:51,900
 it away from the intersection that it's currently at.

2310
02:46:51,900 --> 02:46:57,540
 The other main concern that we heard is their desire to connect to city water as well as

2311
02:46:57,540 --> 02:47:04,340
 to have some road improvements and we are aware that there's a new water line that was

2312
02:47:04,340 --> 02:47:09,860
 just constructed on that side of the road for Legends Ranch and we're taking a look

2313
02:47:09,860 --> 02:47:14,700
 at potential opportunities there, I think Julie mentioned the opportunity to connect

2314
02:47:14,700 --> 02:47:16,820
 with city services in the future.

2315
02:47:16,820 --> 02:47:21,540
 So we're looking at ways that we can continue to help the neighborhood as we work through

2316
02:47:21,540 --> 02:47:24,780
 this process.

2317
02:47:24,780 --> 02:47:30,420
 The next step, assuming the zoning change is approved by city council next month, we

2318
02:47:30,420 --> 02:47:35,100
 would require a floodplain development permit, a building permit as well.

2319
02:47:35,100 --> 02:47:39,420
 My client has engaged an architect to put together building plans and be able to go

2320
02:47:39,420 --> 02:47:44,620
 pull a building permit so that they can recommence construction and their TABC permit they do

2321
02:47:44,620 --> 02:47:48,980
 already have which is part of the confusion about why they thought they were allowed to

2322
02:47:48,980 --> 02:47:56,500
 continue the use when they purchased the property and with that I'm happy to answer any questions.

2323
02:47:56,500 --> 02:47:58,700
 Thank you very much.

2324
02:47:58,700 --> 02:48:03,220
 Any questions for the applicant from the commission?

2325
02:48:03,220 --> 02:48:06,620
 Thank you for addressing the comments in the work session.

2326
02:48:06,620 --> 02:48:09,020
 Thank you.

2327
02:48:09,020 --> 02:48:15,900
 This is a public hearing and we'll open the public hearing at this time.

2328
02:48:15,900 --> 02:48:21,460
 As I call these three names, feel free to come up in whatever combination is helpful

2329
02:48:21,460 --> 02:48:23,580
 for translation.

2330
02:48:23,580 --> 02:48:32,940
 The first card I have is Letitia Compensato, yes, if you'd like to come up forward and

2331
02:48:32,940 --> 02:48:39,580
 speak.

2332
02:48:39,580 --> 02:48:52,420
 Very good.

2333
02:48:52,420 --> 02:48:56,780
 If you can state your name and address and then you'll...

2334
02:48:56,780 --> 02:49:05,720
 My name is Letitia Compensato, my address is 1256 Willow Lane, Tanton, Texas, 76207.

2335
02:49:05,720 --> 02:49:17,300
 I've been living in Denton State for 27 years so she pretty much knows the entire story

2336
02:49:17,300 --> 02:49:18,300
 of the neighborhood.

2337
02:49:18,300 --> 02:49:19,300
 Okay.

2338
02:49:19,300 --> 02:49:26,220
 Sorry, just a second, I will say because there's translation going on I'm going to wave the

2339
02:49:26,220 --> 02:49:31,300
 standard four minute limitation because I want to make sure that you're not rushed.

2340
02:49:31,300 --> 02:49:34,860
 But for the purposes of the record, we need the name and address of the translator as

2341
02:49:34,860 --> 02:49:35,860
 well.

2342
02:49:35,860 --> 02:49:36,860
 Okay, my address too?

2343
02:49:36,860 --> 02:49:37,860
 Yes.

2344
02:49:37,860 --> 02:49:41,500
 My name is Julia Camposano, my address is 1175 Willow Lane, Denton, Texas, 76207.

2345
02:49:41,500 --> 02:49:42,500
 Thank you.

2346
02:49:42,500 --> 02:50:01,260
 When you translate back into English, especially if you could make sure you're close enough

2347
02:50:01,260 --> 02:50:05,020
 to the microphone since we're recording just for future reference.

2348
02:50:05,020 --> 02:50:06,020
 Thank you.

2349
02:50:06,020 --> 02:50:07,020
 That's great.

2350
02:50:07,020 --> 02:50:15,220
 Thank you.

2351
02:50:15,220 --> 02:50:19,620
 I oppose the type of business which we were told that it's a liquor store and for the

2352
02:50:19,620 --> 02:50:31,480
 safety of our children.

2353
02:50:31,480 --> 02:50:35,640
 It's a family neighborhood and it's not proper that there is like children all the way from

2354
02:50:35,640 --> 02:50:44,100
 pre K to high school.

2355
02:50:44,100 --> 02:50:48,860
 And she feels like before providing a permit, we have to have the main services from the

2356
02:50:48,860 --> 02:50:53,120
 city, which is water and sewer, which we don't have right now.

2357
02:50:53,120 --> 02:51:03,020
 The basics, 27 years living there without city water.

2358
02:51:03,020 --> 02:51:19,900
 There has been times that there has been five days without water, a week, and with children.

2359
02:51:19,900 --> 02:51:24,380
 I'm happy and grateful that you all have the time to listen to what I have to say because

2360
02:51:24,380 --> 02:51:29,300
 I've been living there in Denton States.

2361
02:51:29,300 --> 02:51:33,540
 Because living here and not having the basic services, it's hard.

2362
02:51:33,540 --> 02:51:42,500
 It's hard for the families, for the kids, for the safety of our children.

2363
02:51:42,500 --> 02:51:49,540
 There are some people, there are some neighbors that they don't understand that we must keep

2364
02:51:49,540 --> 02:52:03,600
 our properties clean and how do I say, like looking good.

2365
02:52:03,600 --> 02:52:09,980
 She has been given evidence to the city almost every year complaining and letting the city

2366
02:52:09,980 --> 02:52:12,300
 what's going on with the neighborhood.

2367
02:52:12,300 --> 02:52:21,580
 It's been going on for years, but it seems they don't care.

2368
02:52:21,580 --> 02:52:37,180
 Because she's in pretty much the main flood zone and there's a ditch there.

2369
02:52:37,180 --> 02:52:42,580
 All the water that comes, I'm going to say from crumb that comes down, goes through that

2370
02:52:42,580 --> 02:52:43,580
 property.

2371
02:52:43,580 --> 02:52:49,160
 All the main mobile home park, I'm going to say cut it in the middle, where she was pointing

2372
02:52:49,160 --> 02:52:51,260
 all the floods and all the water comes through there.

2373
02:52:51,260 --> 02:53:03,820
 So it affects everyone in the neighborhood.

2374
02:53:03,820 --> 02:53:12,680
 It's embarrassing how the roads look right now, even though we pay taxes.

2375
02:53:12,680 --> 02:53:20,320
 She pays thousands every year and ... Where's the money going to?

2376
02:53:20,320 --> 02:53:27,460
 Because we don't ever get any kind of help from city or Denton County.

2377
02:53:27,460 --> 02:53:40,020
 Now bringing a liquor business, it's not good for us as families and a lot of Hispanic people

2378
02:53:40,020 --> 02:53:46,480
 that live there.

2379
02:53:46,480 --> 02:53:55,140
 I don't think it's a good option and I don't think the neighbors agree with this.

2380
02:53:55,140 --> 02:54:03,180
 If it's a convenience store, then yes, for liquor, no, I oppose and I think everyone

2381
02:54:03,180 --> 02:54:04,180
 opposes.

2382
02:54:04,180 --> 02:54:19,620
 Like I said, feel free to have a little bit of extra time because of the translation.

2383
02:54:19,620 --> 02:54:30,220
 How is possible they want to get a permit for a commercial building when we don't even

2384
02:54:30,220 --> 02:54:33,860
 have the basic from the city or the county?

2385
02:54:33,860 --> 02:54:38,980
 That's what I wanted to communicate, y'all.

2386
02:54:38,980 --> 02:54:41,340
 Okay, this is my turn now.

2387
02:54:41,340 --> 02:54:51,060
 Any questions from the commission of the speaker, yeah, Commissioner McDade?

2388
02:54:51,060 --> 02:54:53,300
 Do you own your property there?

2389
02:54:53,300 --> 02:54:54,300
 Yes.

2390
02:54:54,300 --> 02:54:55,300
 Thank you.

2391
02:54:55,300 --> 02:54:56,300
 Thank you.

2392
02:54:56,300 --> 02:55:07,460
 Yeah, if you'd like to go next, is this Julia or Salda?

2393
02:55:07,460 --> 02:55:08,460
 Yes, it's Julia.

2394
02:55:08,460 --> 02:55:09,460
 Okay, Julia.

2395
02:55:09,460 --> 02:55:10,460
 Well, good afternoon, everyone.

2396
02:55:10,460 --> 02:55:12,560
 My name is Julia Camposano.

2397
02:55:12,560 --> 02:55:15,500
 I live in 1175 Cottonwood Lane.

2398
02:55:15,500 --> 02:55:20,220
 I've been living there since I'm going to say 2004.

2399
02:55:20,220 --> 02:55:26,300
 I opposed to this change mainly because of the safety of our children.

2400
02:55:26,300 --> 02:55:33,940
 There's about 35 to 40 kids that the Chrome ISD picks up every morning and drops them

2401
02:55:33,940 --> 02:55:36,100
 in the afternoon.

2402
02:55:36,100 --> 02:55:41,380
 I try to fight with them in the past because this has been going on for years.

2403
02:55:41,380 --> 02:55:49,380
 They refuse to pick up our kids from each house because of the condition of our roads.

2404
02:55:49,380 --> 02:55:54,500
 We all agree to have a specific spot for our children, and that way the buses don't get

2405
02:55:54,500 --> 02:55:58,500
 damaged because that's what we were told.

2406
02:55:58,500 --> 02:56:05,380
 It's been behind the parking lot where that business is or was.

2407
02:56:05,380 --> 02:56:10,020
 By the time I've been living there, that business was more like a convenience store.

2408
02:56:10,020 --> 02:56:17,520
 It was only open at night and weekends, so it was not a whole day thing.

2409
02:56:17,520 --> 02:56:22,180
 Another concern that I have, I requested with the Texas Department of Transportation a report

2410
02:56:22,180 --> 02:56:26,780
 of all the car accidents that happened there because it's a pretty dangerous area.

2411
02:56:26,780 --> 02:56:32,580
 I'm going to say two to three accidents per year happened there, including fatalities.

2412
02:56:32,580 --> 02:56:38,900
 I even try to get a stop light for our children because the kids that live in Willow Lane,

2413
02:56:38,900 --> 02:56:44,100
 they can drop off the bus and just walk back to their houses, but the other kids that live

2414
02:56:44,100 --> 02:56:50,180
 on Cottonwood Lane, they have to walk on the bridge across front of that building to go

2415
02:56:50,180 --> 02:56:51,180
 to their homes.

2416
02:56:51,180 --> 02:56:56,140
 Well, I never got any response from the Texas Department of Transportation.

2417
02:56:56,140 --> 02:57:01,180
 All they did, they choose to install reflectors on the bridge, and that was it.

2418
02:57:01,180 --> 02:57:06,220
 The property maintenance, the grass right now, the property is up to here right now.

2419
02:57:06,220 --> 02:57:11,380
 I don't know who's in charge, if it's any owner, but there is no proper maintenance

2420
02:57:11,380 --> 02:57:15,160
 for that property.

2421
02:57:15,160 --> 02:57:19,300
 Another concern is, just like she said before, we have no city services.

2422
02:57:19,300 --> 02:57:24,340
 Even though there's another neighborhood next to us that it's mobile homes and they have

2423
02:57:24,340 --> 02:57:28,380
 city water, we are the only ones that don't have any city water.

2424
02:57:28,380 --> 02:57:36,700
 Like she said before, especially during wintertime, there has been four or five days without water.

2425
02:57:36,700 --> 02:57:42,500
 We also brought this to the city attention, but what we were told is it's a private property,

2426
02:57:42,500 --> 02:57:49,660
 so everyone is responsible for their own piece of land, including the roads.

2427
02:57:49,660 --> 02:57:55,860
 Another concern that we have is our taxes may go up if this goes through, because if

2428
02:57:55,860 --> 02:58:00,380
 it becomes commercial and residential, it may affect our taxes, and I don't think it's

2429
02:58:00,380 --> 02:58:04,340
 fair because we don't even get any city services.

2430
02:58:04,340 --> 02:58:09,920
 So that's why I oppose.

2431
02:58:09,920 --> 02:58:10,920
 Thank you.

2432
02:58:10,920 --> 02:58:13,140
 Any questions of the speaker?

2433
02:58:13,140 --> 02:58:19,220
 Yeah, Commissioner Padrone.

2434
02:58:19,220 --> 02:58:23,140
 When you're talking about the kids having to cross the bridge, are you talking about

2435
02:58:23,140 --> 02:58:27,900
 the walkway that's on day 80 and not the little footbridge?

2436
02:58:27,900 --> 02:58:28,900
 Yes.

2437
02:58:28,900 --> 02:58:31,580
 So they're crossing on the sidewalk on 380.

2438
02:58:31,580 --> 02:58:32,580
 Okay.

2439
02:58:32,580 --> 02:58:33,580
 Thank you.

2440
02:58:33,580 --> 02:58:39,180
 Like some kids will have to walk, like me, either my dad or me go pick up from the bus

2441
02:58:39,180 --> 02:58:40,180
 stop.

2442
02:58:40,180 --> 02:58:43,260
 But some other kids are like, I'm going to say the teenagers, they do have to walk through

2443
02:58:43,260 --> 02:58:48,380
 the sidewalk, and they hold their little sisters or brothers.

2444
02:58:48,380 --> 02:58:54,020
 Okay, Commissioner McDade.

2445
02:58:54,020 --> 02:58:55,020
 Excuse me.

2446
02:58:55,020 --> 02:58:56,020
 We have enough.

2447
02:58:56,020 --> 02:58:57,020
 One more question.

2448
02:58:57,020 --> 02:58:58,020
 One more question.

2449
02:58:58,020 --> 02:58:59,020
 I'm sorry.

2450
02:58:59,020 --> 02:59:02,340
 You own your land in this area that you're speaking of.

2451
02:59:02,340 --> 02:59:03,980
 You do own the property?

2452
02:59:03,980 --> 02:59:04,980
 Yes.

2453
02:59:04,980 --> 02:59:08,420
 And also, who do you pay your city taxes to?

2454
02:59:08,420 --> 02:59:10,660
 Do you pay them to the city of Denton?

2455
02:59:10,660 --> 02:59:12,340
 Yes, every year.

2456
02:59:12,340 --> 02:59:14,420
 But your kids attend Crum School?

2457
02:59:14,420 --> 02:59:15,420
 Yes.

2458
02:59:15,420 --> 02:59:16,420
 Thank you.

2459
02:59:16,420 --> 02:59:25,820
 The last card I have is for Rosalba Camposano Chavez.

2460
02:59:25,820 --> 02:59:27,260
 I hope I got that correct.

2461
02:59:27,260 --> 02:59:30,060
 If not, you'll have to educate me.

2462
02:59:30,060 --> 02:59:32,060
 Please state your name and address, and you'll have four minutes.

2463
02:59:32,060 --> 02:59:35,180
 My name is Rosalba Camposano Chavez.

2464
02:59:35,180 --> 02:59:45,780
 I own 1175 Cottonwood Lane and 1195 Cottonwood Lane, Denton, Texas, 76207.

2465
02:59:45,780 --> 02:59:54,260
 I oppose for the same reason, for the safety of our children, mainly because it's the best

2466
02:59:54,260 --> 02:59:55,260
 spot for our children.

2467
02:59:55,260 --> 03:00:00,460
 I don't think it's safe for them to be walking on the side of the ... For the Willow Lane,

2468
03:00:00,460 --> 03:00:03,540
 for the kids that live on the Willow Lane, there's no problem because they can just walk

2469
03:00:03,540 --> 03:00:05,180
 on the road to their homes.

2470
03:00:05,180 --> 03:00:09,100
 However, for our kids that live on Cottonwood Lane, they'll have to walk on the side of

2471
03:00:09,100 --> 03:00:20,700
 the 380 highway, which we all know it's known for accidents and traffic.

2472
03:00:20,700 --> 03:00:27,260
 Also I wouldn't want for our taxes to go up, especially we don't have roads, we don't have

2473
03:00:27,260 --> 03:00:28,620
 city water and all that.

2474
03:00:28,620 --> 03:00:35,900
 I personally, my two lots that I own, I pay taxes for Crum.

2475
03:00:35,900 --> 03:00:46,300
 I pay for city and I pay for county, for Denton, sorry, I'm nervous.

2476
03:00:46,300 --> 03:00:53,300
 That's the main concern why, and also because it's the type of business that they're wanting

2477
03:00:53,300 --> 03:00:57,180
 to open, which I don't think it's safe for the neighborhood.

2478
03:00:57,180 --> 03:01:03,140
 In fact, the neighborhood already is not really that safe, to be honest, and adding that type

2479
03:01:03,140 --> 03:01:08,300
 of business to it, it will just make it not the best for us.

2480
03:01:08,300 --> 03:01:16,620
 I think it will add more homeless and all that type of stuff that will make it less

2481
03:01:16,620 --> 03:01:28,140
 safety for our children, and also because of the flood zone.

2482
03:01:28,140 --> 03:01:35,820
 It gets pretty flooded when it rains, and I think that would also affect him as if he

2483
03:01:35,820 --> 03:01:40,420
 wants to open that type of business, I don't think it will be the best for him.

2484
03:01:40,420 --> 03:01:51,740
 And also, like she said, the maintenance right now, the grass is up to here, so if he could

2485
03:01:51,740 --> 03:01:54,700
 change that, that would be great.

2486
03:01:54,700 --> 03:02:02,580
 But the main concern is for the safety of our children, and that is why I oppose.

2487
03:02:02,580 --> 03:02:04,740
 I guess I have a question.

2488
03:02:04,740 --> 03:02:10,740
 It seems like the safety of the children and the community there is a common thread.

2489
03:02:10,740 --> 03:02:17,540
 From your perspective, is that mostly connected to the bus situation?

2490
03:02:17,540 --> 03:02:19,580
 Is that the safety you're mainly talking about?

2491
03:02:19,580 --> 03:02:26,820
 Yeah, and also people there, I mean some people don't listen there, especially because nobody

2492
03:02:26,820 --> 03:02:27,820
 tells them anything.

2493
03:02:27,820 --> 03:02:31,860
 Pretty much it's the neighborhood where everybody does whatever they want to do, to be honest.

2494
03:02:31,860 --> 03:02:35,500
 And they're always speeding and stuff like that.

2495
03:02:35,500 --> 03:02:39,140
 If you're adding a liquor store to people who are already speeding at night, all night

2496
03:02:39,140 --> 03:02:41,140
 long you can hear it.

2497
03:02:41,140 --> 03:02:47,240
 And if you're going to add a liquor store there, it's only going to make it worse.

2498
03:02:47,240 --> 03:02:48,240
 Thank you.

2499
03:02:48,240 --> 03:02:51,860
 Any other questions from the commission?

2500
03:02:51,860 --> 03:02:56,140
 Yeah, Commissioner MacDuff?

2501
03:02:56,140 --> 03:02:59,540
 I have a list here of concerns.

2502
03:02:59,540 --> 03:03:06,180
 Sorry, are these questions for the speaker or more general for staff?

2503
03:03:06,180 --> 03:03:11,180
 Or just, I just want to let the public speaker know if they can sit down.

2504
03:03:11,180 --> 03:03:17,100
 Yes, I have a list of concerns here and taking them into account, but I'm going to ask again.

2505
03:03:17,100 --> 03:03:22,560
 It seems like that the main concern is for the kids' safety, overwhelming.

2506
03:03:22,560 --> 03:03:29,260
 And is the secondary concern perhaps, or is it a liquor store and before we had a convenience

2507
03:03:29,260 --> 03:03:35,420
 store attached or somewhere in that shopping center to buy things?

2508
03:03:35,420 --> 03:03:41,940
 Yeah, before it was like a store and kind of like a bar, but there wasn't really that

2509
03:03:41,940 --> 03:03:49,420
 many like customers there, like mainly it was open during the weekends, like it was

2510
03:03:49,420 --> 03:04:00,340
 calm, like there was nothing, but just, I think that a liquor store would be different.

2511
03:04:00,340 --> 03:04:03,580
 Commissioner Padron?

2512
03:04:03,580 --> 03:04:06,420
 I think this is more for staff than our member of the public.

2513
03:04:06,420 --> 03:04:07,420
 Thank you.

2514
03:04:07,420 --> 03:04:08,420
 Thank you.

2515
03:04:08,420 --> 03:04:15,940
 So, correct me if I'm wrong, so regardless of the type of business, because of the state

2516
03:04:15,940 --> 03:04:21,100
 of the building, it's out of compliance with the zoning, so even if they wanted to change

2517
03:04:21,100 --> 03:04:27,380
 the type of business, regardless, it would have to be rezoned for any business to operate.

2518
03:04:27,380 --> 03:04:29,220
 Am I getting that correct or?

2519
03:04:29,220 --> 03:04:30,220
 You're absolutely correct.

2520
03:04:30,220 --> 03:04:31,220
 Okay.

2521
03:04:31,220 --> 03:04:36,280
 So they are proposing just to rezone, so any use that would be permitted in the MN district,

2522
03:04:36,280 --> 03:04:39,220
 if approved, could be developed on the site.

2523
03:04:39,220 --> 03:04:43,940
 So right now, if the property owner changed their mind and said, "I want to bring back

2524
03:04:43,940 --> 03:04:50,020
 a convenience store or modified grocery store," this zoning would still have to go through?

2525
03:04:50,020 --> 03:04:51,020
 Correct.

2526
03:04:51,020 --> 03:04:52,020
 Okay.

2527
03:04:52,020 --> 03:04:53,020
 Correct.

2528
03:04:53,020 --> 03:04:55,620
 Commissioner Dyer?

2529
03:04:55,620 --> 03:05:01,260
 I guess maybe that's kind of the same exact question, is that we're just doing the zoning.

2530
03:05:01,260 --> 03:05:06,180
 We're not approving to have it to be a liquor store.

2531
03:05:06,180 --> 03:05:12,220
 Once this is approved, then the property owner has to come back to the city and ask to be

2532
03:05:12,220 --> 03:05:16,860
 able to operate a liquor store out of there, and then the citizens would have to come back

2533
03:05:16,860 --> 03:05:22,420
 and say, do they get a chance to say, "We don't want that," or is all of this information

2534
03:05:22,420 --> 03:05:26,400
 kind of noted for the future?

2535
03:05:26,400 --> 03:05:30,820
 So we don't have a separate use in our use tables for liquor store.

2536
03:05:30,820 --> 03:05:33,580
 It would be retail sales.

2537
03:05:33,580 --> 03:05:40,860
 So if this is approved, because MN allows for retail sales, then that use would be permitted.

2538
03:05:40,860 --> 03:05:45,060
 All that they would have to do is demonstrate that they have sufficient parking and get

2539
03:05:45,060 --> 03:05:50,860
 a CO, a certificate of occupancy, if the zoning were approved, and there wouldn't be an additional

2540
03:05:50,860 --> 03:05:51,860
 public hearing.

2541
03:05:51,860 --> 03:05:57,020
 So it is possible that if we approve this, then the property owner could do whatever

2542
03:05:57,020 --> 03:06:04,340
 they want and the city would not necessarily take into account the community's concerns.

2543
03:06:04,340 --> 03:06:05,340
 That is possible.

2544
03:06:05,340 --> 03:06:10,020
 Any use in MN could be developed, yes.

2545
03:06:10,020 --> 03:06:11,020
 Okay.

2546
03:06:11,020 --> 03:06:18,300
 Julie, you mentioned in the slide, I think, that a bar would require an SUP in MN.

2547
03:06:18,300 --> 03:06:19,300
 Correct.

2548
03:06:19,300 --> 03:06:24,340
 Can you explain for us the difference between a bar and a liquor store from a classification

2549
03:06:24,340 --> 03:06:25,340
 perspective?

2550
03:06:25,340 --> 03:06:33,980
 Hailey may correct me, but a bar would allow on-site consumption, whereas a package sales

2551
03:06:33,980 --> 03:06:35,980
 retail it would.

2552
03:06:35,980 --> 03:06:36,980
 Correct.

2553
03:06:36,980 --> 03:06:38,100
 I'll help you out.

2554
03:06:38,100 --> 03:06:41,860
 So yes, Julie is correct that a bar is on-site consumption.

2555
03:06:41,860 --> 03:06:46,100
 So that means you're purchasing it on the site and drinking it there.

2556
03:06:46,100 --> 03:06:49,540
 With a liquor store, it's retail sales or package sales.

2557
03:06:49,540 --> 03:06:57,500
 So from what I understand, it is illegal to consume the alcoholic beverages on the property

2558
03:06:57,500 --> 03:06:59,300
 for where it's sold.

2559
03:06:59,300 --> 03:07:00,300
 Okay.

2560
03:07:00,300 --> 03:07:05,300
 I think the other thing is, to Julie's point, the liquor store is considered retail sales,

2561
03:07:05,300 --> 03:07:10,120
 and I believe there's provisions in the state law that basically address that.

2562
03:07:10,120 --> 03:07:15,980
 We have to treat liquor stores, since they are a retail function, similar to how we would

2563
03:07:15,980 --> 03:07:20,140
 treat other retail stores, we cannot make a distinction.

2564
03:07:20,140 --> 03:07:29,620
 Our rules, as I understand them, for businesses that provide alcoholic beverages, they follow

2565
03:07:29,620 --> 03:07:35,380
 the state requirements because of when we adopted those requirements for our city.

2566
03:07:35,380 --> 03:07:44,100
 So for retail sales of liquor stores, even for bars also, there are minimum separation

2567
03:07:44,100 --> 03:07:49,700
 distances from protected land uses, such as churches and schools, but from residential

2568
03:07:49,700 --> 03:07:53,900
 neighborhoods, there are not.

2569
03:07:53,900 --> 03:08:02,980
 And just a second, I'll have more to say about this in a minute, but I want to get the factual

2570
03:08:02,980 --> 03:08:05,380
 knowledge of what's there.

2571
03:08:05,380 --> 03:08:10,760
 I really don't want this to turn into another green tree estates type thing, and I want

2572
03:08:10,760 --> 03:08:16,760
 to help us separate out the different things that are going on here.

2573
03:08:16,760 --> 03:08:24,220
 My question is, does staff have any information on what the water and septic situation is?

2574
03:08:24,220 --> 03:08:29,140
 They don't look like one or two acre lots to me, so is it a communal system, or is it

2575
03:08:29,140 --> 03:08:33,240
 every individual system where they all just built before the county even started looking

2576
03:08:33,240 --> 03:08:34,780
 at that?

2577
03:08:34,780 --> 03:08:39,320
 Help us understand that, just so that we can get some information on the table.

2578
03:08:39,320 --> 03:08:44,580
 There are, according to our data, there are wells and septic systems on each lot.

2579
03:08:44,580 --> 03:08:45,580
 Okay.

2580
03:08:45,580 --> 03:08:46,580
 Thank you.

2581
03:08:46,580 --> 03:08:47,780
 Commissioner Riggs?

2582
03:08:47,780 --> 03:08:55,020
 You'll get it here in a minute.

2583
03:08:55,020 --> 03:08:58,780
 So right now, it's currently zoned R2.

2584
03:08:58,780 --> 03:09:04,660
 Could they actually build a single family on the lot the way it is now, they'd have

2585
03:09:04,660 --> 03:09:06,660
 to tear this building down?

2586
03:09:06,660 --> 03:09:11,500
 It would have to stay out of the flood zone or the floodplain, but yes, there could be

2587
03:09:11,500 --> 03:09:12,500
 potentially.

2588
03:09:12,500 --> 03:09:17,180
 That doesn't leave a lot of room.

2589
03:09:17,180 --> 03:09:22,860
 So essentially, if the zoning doesn't get changed, then this just stays a vacant building

2590
03:09:22,860 --> 03:09:26,400
 that's in disrepair.

2591
03:09:26,400 --> 03:09:33,520
 That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.

2592
03:09:33,520 --> 03:09:36,960
 And then this used to be the Porkies, right?

2593
03:09:36,960 --> 03:09:39,100
 I believe so.

2594
03:09:39,100 --> 03:09:40,100
 Yeah.

2595
03:09:40,100 --> 03:09:41,100
 Okay.

2596
03:09:41,100 --> 03:09:42,100
 Thanks.

2597
03:09:42,100 --> 03:09:47,700
 Any other questions or discussion for the commission?

2598
03:09:47,700 --> 03:09:57,100
 I was about to close the public hearing.

2599
03:09:57,100 --> 03:09:58,340
 I see your hand.

2600
03:09:58,340 --> 03:10:01,700
 This isn't really a forum where we go back and forth like that.

2601
03:10:01,700 --> 03:10:09,180
 The one procedure that we have for coming back up is if the applicant would like a short

2602
03:10:09,180 --> 03:10:16,100
 time for rebuttal, then the original commenters are able to speak on those items only.

2603
03:10:16,100 --> 03:10:20,340
 Just one water well for the entire committee.

2604
03:10:20,340 --> 03:10:21,340
 Okay.

2605
03:10:21,340 --> 03:10:22,340
 Thank you.

2606
03:10:22,340 --> 03:10:23,340
 Okay.

2607
03:10:23,340 --> 03:10:29,540
 Any other questions or discussion?

2608
03:10:29,540 --> 03:10:36,020
 I'm very torn on this one because it's in the flood zone.

2609
03:10:36,020 --> 03:10:38,260
 It's not going to become a house.

2610
03:10:38,260 --> 03:10:43,980
 And I feel bad for the applicant who, for whatever reason, I don't know if they didn't

2611
03:10:43,980 --> 03:10:51,420
 do their homework or check in the zoning when they were purchasing it, but you've got a

2612
03:10:51,420 --> 03:11:00,620
 whole neighborhood, a whole community of families and kids and yes, as a mom of three grown

2613
03:11:00,620 --> 03:11:04,100
 kids, when they were little, I don't know that I would want to have lived next door

2614
03:11:04,100 --> 03:11:10,740
 or had a liquor store come right there at the entrance.

2615
03:11:10,740 --> 03:11:16,100
 But I feel for the applicant who obviously has an investment and wants to see a return,

2616
03:11:16,100 --> 03:11:25,020
 so how do you, how does we as a commission vote to approve the zoning change, but also

2617
03:11:25,020 --> 03:11:32,740
 know that that could entail, because we know the intent of what they're going to do and

2618
03:11:32,740 --> 03:11:36,220
 we can't really ask them to do something else.

2619
03:11:36,220 --> 03:11:41,860
 And once the change is made, they're going to conform to what now the new zoning is.

2620
03:11:41,860 --> 03:11:44,540
 And so it's not like the staff can't really say no.

2621
03:11:44,540 --> 03:11:47,540
 So I'm very, I'm conflicted on this one.

2622
03:11:47,540 --> 03:11:48,540
 Commissioner.

2623
03:11:48,540 --> 03:11:59,440
 So I don't know if the appropriate staff is here, but has any CDBG been considered or

2624
03:11:59,440 --> 03:12:04,100
 talked about out here for?

2625
03:12:04,100 --> 03:12:07,340
 So when you say has any CDBG been considered?

2626
03:12:07,340 --> 03:12:12,780
 Like for to actually install water lines and sewer lines, I know it used to be CDBG funding

2627
03:12:12,780 --> 03:12:15,680
 for those types of improvements, particularly for neighborhoods like this.

2628
03:12:15,680 --> 03:12:16,860
 You know, that's a great question.

2629
03:12:16,860 --> 03:12:23,220
 I don't know if it has in the past or not, from what I understand in that the roads have

2630
03:12:23,220 --> 03:12:31,500
 been considered as private roads and the city has not, has determined it has not had a responsibility

2631
03:12:31,500 --> 03:12:36,580
 for maintenance, but you know, one thing that we can commit to is go back and investigate

2632
03:12:36,580 --> 03:12:39,980
 that further and look into that to see if there's a responsibility.

2633
03:12:39,980 --> 03:12:45,780
 I think as Julie pointed out previously, especially with the history of the annexation, when this

2634
03:12:45,780 --> 03:12:50,260
 property was initially developed or the neighborhood was initially developed, and Julie correct

2635
03:12:50,260 --> 03:12:55,420
 me if I'm wrong, but you know, it, it was within the county, right?

2636
03:12:55,420 --> 03:13:00,900
 And so the roads were not constructed to any city standards at the time because it was

2637
03:13:00,900 --> 03:13:02,460
 out in the county.

2638
03:13:02,460 --> 03:13:05,920
 And then we, the city eventually did some strip annexation.

2639
03:13:05,920 --> 03:13:10,980
 So only a limited number of properties were brought into the city.

2640
03:13:10,980 --> 03:13:15,020
 The remaining balance of the neighborhood is predominantly within, within the county.

2641
03:13:15,020 --> 03:13:21,860
 So this property or this neighborhood in general, obviously has some challenges based upon what's

2642
03:13:21,860 --> 03:13:26,980
 been presented and the commitment that we, at least as the planning staff can make is,

2643
03:13:26,980 --> 03:13:31,260
 is trying to get with our colleagues to do some further investigation as to what options

2644
03:13:31,260 --> 03:13:36,740
 there may be to be able to identify how the roads could get repaired.

2645
03:13:36,740 --> 03:13:41,940
 And then also what options there may be for improving access to water and utilities for

2646
03:13:41,940 --> 03:13:48,740
 the area.

2647
03:13:48,740 --> 03:13:54,820
 So as everybody keeps thinking, I guess I'll, I'll share my thoughts, but I'm, I'm happily

2648
03:13:54,820 --> 03:14:08,780
 to be interrupted if somebody says I know, you know, zoning helps us.

2649
03:14:08,780 --> 03:14:19,340
 It was designed to prevent, you know, broad egregious malfeasance of, of polluting areas

2650
03:14:19,340 --> 03:14:24,340
 back before we had pollution controls, et cetera.

2651
03:14:24,340 --> 03:14:35,780
 And now it saddens me when I hear just the layers of information and what you know, whether

2652
03:14:35,780 --> 03:14:43,440
 you know or not the, the motions you have to go through to, to keep a business open

2653
03:14:43,440 --> 03:14:48,140
 that you just bought, right?

2654
03:14:48,140 --> 03:14:53,220
 And so, you know, when I look at this case, I see it's really just the land use, right?

2655
03:14:53,220 --> 03:15:02,900
 The question is, does a commercial building, a budding 380 make sense more than a home,

2656
03:15:02,900 --> 03:15:03,900
 right?

2657
03:15:03,900 --> 03:15:12,660
 From a land land use zoning perspective, there's certainly a lot of details here.

2658
03:15:12,660 --> 03:15:21,060
 I'll just say that to the question of what happens, how do we get this neighborhood to,

2659
03:15:21,060 --> 03:15:24,340
 to have better services in the future?

2660
03:15:24,340 --> 03:15:31,060
 You know, cities, including Denton, have really forgotten how to make incremental small improvements

2661
03:15:31,060 --> 03:15:32,060
 to things.

2662
03:15:32,060 --> 03:15:34,700
 We, we do $30 million road projects.

2663
03:15:34,700 --> 03:15:41,240
 We don't send a guy out with a truck to make the road not have holes in it anymore.

2664
03:15:41,240 --> 03:15:45,360
 And so places like this get left behind.

2665
03:15:45,360 --> 03:15:53,380
 At the same time, because of the current structure, it's, it's less likely in my mind that the

2666
03:15:53,380 --> 03:15:58,760
 neighborhood will be helped out with those services if this business is shuttered because

2667
03:15:58,760 --> 03:16:04,940
 of zoning and somebody's dreams are, are shuffled away.

2668
03:16:04,940 --> 03:16:11,700
 So any other questions, comments?

2669
03:16:11,700 --> 03:16:16,900
 I think I'm a little torn on this one, but you know, I also kind of go, the zoning seems

2670
03:16:16,900 --> 03:16:17,900
 to make sense.

2671
03:16:17,900 --> 03:16:22,340
 If I'm not thinking about what specifically is planned there, the zoning makes sense and

2672
03:16:22,340 --> 03:16:26,540
 people who own the property do have property rights to, to develop it.

2673
03:16:26,540 --> 03:16:30,840
 And I understand it's being used as a bus stop and I would hope that they could figure

2674
03:16:30,840 --> 03:16:35,260
 something out to, to still allow that to happen or maybe use the different side, maybe the

2675
03:16:35,260 --> 03:16:40,620
 other side of, on a cottonwood or something like that, maybe make something adequate.

2676
03:16:40,620 --> 03:16:49,740
 Yeah, I guess, it's not really a question, but obviously there's no, nothing binding

2677
03:16:49,740 --> 03:16:54,520
 in any, any of this, but it would be really nice if the owner, as they work through this

2678
03:16:54,520 --> 03:17:02,300
 process would try to be communicative with Chrome ISD and find a solution to that.

2679
03:17:02,300 --> 03:17:05,820
 Because that really seems like the, the most near term concern.

2680
03:17:05,820 --> 03:17:06,820
 Yeah.

2681
03:17:06,820 --> 03:17:07,820
 Sure.

2682
03:17:07,820 --> 03:17:19,300
 You all, those of you who have been here a while as you see me here frequently, I represent

2683
03:17:19,300 --> 03:17:25,380
 zoning cases almost exclusively in the city of Denton and I can tell you that I can commit

2684
03:17:25,380 --> 03:17:31,300
 to continuing the conversations with my client and with the city to try to solve some of

2685
03:17:31,300 --> 03:17:34,140
 these issues for the neighborhood.

2686
03:17:34,140 --> 03:17:36,900
 My heart goes out to them as well.

2687
03:17:36,900 --> 03:17:40,800
 I hear their concerns.

2688
03:17:40,800 --> 03:17:48,940
 I think that their concerns are separate from the zoning change at hand here today and,

2689
03:17:48,940 --> 03:17:55,620
 but I, I commit to maintaining a relationship with the neighborhood and seeking solutions

2690
03:17:55,620 --> 03:17:59,220
 on behalf of the neighborhood.

2691
03:17:59,220 --> 03:18:04,900
 Any other thoughts or questions or emotion?

2692
03:18:04,900 --> 03:18:07,620
 Senator Dyer?

2693
03:18:07,620 --> 03:18:12,900
 Well I'm just looking up here and it looks like as you get closer to 380s, some of those

2694
03:18:12,900 --> 03:18:19,420
 property owners do pay city taxes, but as you get farther north into the community,

2695
03:18:19,420 --> 03:18:22,300
 they're just paying the county and the school district.

2696
03:18:22,300 --> 03:18:28,220
 So I think this is a tough one because you're finding, you know, some of it is city taxable

2697
03:18:28,220 --> 03:18:35,940
 area and kind of going back to the, you know, everybody's property rights.

2698
03:18:35,940 --> 03:18:37,500
 Commissioner Padron?

2699
03:18:37,500 --> 03:18:44,540
 Again, no, I just wanted to say that I'm also very conflicted with this one as well.

2700
03:18:44,540 --> 03:18:51,340
 I do feel though that there are some separate issues that are at hand and there are multiple

2701
03:18:51,340 --> 03:18:58,220
 entities that frankly need to be at the table to find solutions to better the situation

2702
03:18:58,220 --> 03:19:04,900
 in a wide variety of ways, whether that's roads, whether it's roads, safety for children

2703
03:19:04,900 --> 03:19:11,260
 walking on 380 basically and, you know, just improvement of infrastructure.

2704
03:19:11,260 --> 03:19:19,140
 But I guess going back to the key thing is the focus of not necessarily what the business

2705
03:19:19,140 --> 03:19:24,380
 is but for the business to be able to operate and what that could look like.

2706
03:19:24,380 --> 03:19:28,940
 I don't know, this one's really hard for me, but I appreciate the public comment.

2707
03:19:28,940 --> 03:19:34,460
 It's not easy to come up and talk about, you know, your feelings and your situations and

2708
03:19:34,460 --> 03:19:39,020
 advocate for yourself whether, you know, you're the property owner or you're a community that's

2709
03:19:39,020 --> 03:19:45,420
 being impacted, but I really appreciate all the comment that was given and bringing light

2710
03:19:45,420 --> 03:19:52,380
 to what is being experienced and if anything being able to continue to bring this conversation

2711
03:19:52,380 --> 03:20:03,740
 to the forefront to see how we as a community can find solutions for this community.

2712
03:20:03,740 --> 03:20:07,740
 Commissioner McDade.

2713
03:20:07,740 --> 03:20:08,740
 Thank you.

2714
03:20:08,740 --> 03:20:13,460
 I also want to thank the families for being brave enough to come here and speak before

2715
03:20:13,460 --> 03:20:17,140
 all of us, I know how intimidating that can be.

2716
03:20:17,140 --> 03:20:22,700
 I hear your concerns and I feel your concerns.

2717
03:20:22,700 --> 03:20:29,060
 Perhaps maybe with this zoning change for the owner, it can also bring some improvements

2718
03:20:29,060 --> 03:20:35,220
 to your neighborhood and your community and I know staff is listening and they're taking

2719
03:20:35,220 --> 03:20:43,180
 notes and we'll keep talking to them about helping and assisting you to bring about changes

2720
03:20:43,180 --> 03:20:44,180
 that are possible.

2721
03:20:44,180 --> 03:20:51,980
 You know, we know that we and them can't do everything, but now that the staff knows and

2722
03:20:51,980 --> 03:20:57,540
 hears what your issues and concerns are and you're paying city taxes, I think that they'll

2723
03:20:57,540 --> 03:20:58,980
 be looked at.

2724
03:20:58,980 --> 03:21:06,820
 However, I do feel that any improvements that the new owner plans to do there will still

2725
03:21:06,820 --> 03:21:13,640
 require some city input as far as permits and you all should stay up to date and informed

2726
03:21:13,640 --> 03:21:19,500
 on those things as they move forward also, but thank you very much for coming.

2727
03:21:19,500 --> 03:21:20,960
 Thank you.

2728
03:21:20,960 --> 03:21:29,140
 Before I ask for a motion, I see our assistant planning director, Keisha Siriano here.

2729
03:21:29,140 --> 03:21:36,580
 If you would be able to provide the residents with the information about the neighborhood

2730
03:21:36,580 --> 03:21:42,660
 information that you've explained to us over the last couple of months, I think that might

2731
03:21:42,660 --> 03:21:48,620
 be a good first step.

2732
03:21:48,620 --> 03:22:01,280
 Any other statements or a motion?

2733
03:22:01,280 --> 03:22:09,660
 With that, I will move to approve the zoning request from R2 to MN.

2734
03:22:09,660 --> 03:22:11,180
 And Commissioner MacDuff?

2735
03:22:11,180 --> 03:22:19,680
 Yes, I will second that motion that's in line with the criteria of the debt and development

2736
03:22:19,680 --> 03:22:24,460
 code and for approval of all applications and for approval of a zoning change.

2737
03:22:24,460 --> 03:22:36,100
 If I may, also want to tack on with that motion to investigate these issues that have arisen

2738
03:22:36,100 --> 03:22:39,660
 this evening.

2739
03:22:39,660 --> 03:22:40,660
 Thank you.

2740
03:22:40,660 --> 03:22:45,620
 Yeah, I think while they're separate issues, these types of things are sure to come up

2741
03:22:45,620 --> 03:22:48,980
 at council again if it moves to that.

2742
03:22:48,980 --> 03:22:54,300
 I will mention that I will close the public hearing if that wasn't stated before.

2743
03:22:54,300 --> 03:22:58,980
 My apologies for not saying that earlier.

2744
03:22:58,980 --> 03:23:17,020
 Seeing no additional questions or requests to speak, I'll call for a vote on the board.

2745
03:23:17,020 --> 03:23:23,280
 And that item passes 6-0.

2746
03:23:23,280 --> 03:23:26,260
 That brings us to, yes, please.

2747
03:23:26,260 --> 03:23:30,500
 Ms. Bissett, could you please let them know when this item is slated to go to city council

2748
03:23:30,500 --> 03:23:33,340
 or staff can also after the meeting.

2749
03:23:33,340 --> 03:23:35,340
 Thank you.

2750
03:23:35,340 --> 03:23:36,340
 Okay.

2751
03:23:36,340 --> 03:23:38,620
 No, that's fine.

2752
03:23:38,620 --> 03:23:45,020
 That brings us to item 6-A, hold a discussion regarding the planning and zoning project

2753
03:23:45,020 --> 03:23:46,020
 matrix.

2754
03:23:46,020 --> 03:23:50,540
 Do you have any updates for us?

2755
03:23:50,540 --> 03:23:51,540
 Thank you, Chair Pruitt.

2756
03:23:51,540 --> 03:23:54,380
 So a few updates for the commission's benefit.

2757
03:23:54,380 --> 03:24:03,300
 So as it relates to the matrix itself, so we did add the last item on the front page,

2758
03:24:03,300 --> 03:24:06,820
 public engagement techniques that staff performs as requested by Commissioner McDuff.

2759
03:24:06,820 --> 03:24:10,100
 So we will get that scheduled for a future date.

2760
03:24:10,100 --> 03:24:12,260
 So wanted to make note that we added that.

2761
03:24:12,260 --> 03:24:17,300
 In terms of items that council has taken action on that you have seen previously or considered

2762
03:24:17,300 --> 03:24:22,460
 previously since your last planning and zoning commission meeting, if you recall, there were

2763
03:24:22,460 --> 03:24:25,860
 a couple of mobility plan amendments that you all recently considered.

2764
03:24:25,860 --> 03:24:31,500
 One was with respect to, was kind of a combination effort related to Corbin Road, Underwood Road

2765
03:24:31,500 --> 03:24:33,540
 and Springside.

2766
03:24:33,540 --> 03:24:38,300
 So that was presented to council and council did approve that mobility plan amendment.

2767
03:24:38,300 --> 03:24:42,980
 The other was the removal of the collector street west of I-35 north and south of 380

2768
03:24:42,980 --> 03:24:44,860
 north of Jim Crystal.

2769
03:24:44,860 --> 03:24:48,240
 It was a future collector roadway does not exist today.

2770
03:24:48,240 --> 03:24:53,100
 So that item was also approved by council to remove that from the mobility plan.

2771
03:24:53,100 --> 03:24:58,140
 A couple other items to make note, one of the things that we will add to your matrix

2772
03:24:58,140 --> 03:25:03,620
 or just to your next agenda is we are anticipating doing the legislative update for the commission

2773
03:25:03,620 --> 03:25:09,300
 at your meeting in July, provided our work session schedule permits since we continued

2774
03:25:09,300 --> 03:25:15,100
 a few items but nonetheless just want to share with you bills that we were monitoring and

2775
03:25:15,100 --> 03:25:20,300
 their potential impact to the city because we anticipate we will have to make some development

2776
03:25:20,300 --> 03:25:23,020
 code amendments as a result of those bills being passed.

2777
03:25:23,020 --> 03:25:26,900
 So we'll give more detail and update when we're posted for that discussion.

2778
03:25:26,900 --> 03:25:30,620
 And then also a friendly reminder to make sure you have on your calendars.

2779
03:25:30,620 --> 03:25:35,400
 We will have another CIAC meeting in July that dates July 23rd.

2780
03:25:35,400 --> 03:25:39,740
 So I would anticipate likely a 4 p.m. start.

2781
03:25:39,740 --> 03:25:45,140
 So if you can make sure that that is on your calendars and accept Kathy's meeting invites

2782
03:25:45,140 --> 03:25:49,520
 if you will or at least let us know if you're going to attend or if you're not able to attend

2783
03:25:49,520 --> 03:25:51,860
 so we can ensure that we have quorum.

2784
03:25:51,860 --> 03:25:56,220
 But this will be a report that has to be given to the CIAC.

2785
03:25:56,220 --> 03:25:58,840
 So we will have that forthcoming.

2786
03:25:58,840 --> 03:26:00,940
 And that concludes my report.

2787
03:26:00,940 --> 03:26:05,980
 >> Thank you, any items to add to the matrix from the commission?

2788
03:26:05,980 --> 03:26:16,060
 I don't necessarily think this needs to go on the matrix but could staff, could you explain

2789
03:26:16,060 --> 03:26:20,460
 what our procedures are for members of the public that want to come and speak that need

2790
03:26:20,460 --> 03:26:23,580
 translation assistance just for future reference?

2791
03:26:23,580 --> 03:26:33,940
 >> Sure thing so I believe it's actually posted on our agenda.

2792
03:26:33,940 --> 03:26:38,700
 If not, my understanding is that the request needs to be made through the city secretary's

2793
03:26:38,700 --> 03:26:43,540
 office at least three days in advance of the meeting so that we can make sure that we are

2794
03:26:43,540 --> 03:26:48,620
 able to arrange for the appropriate translation services.

2795
03:26:48,620 --> 03:26:49,620
 Anything else to add Kathy?

2796
03:26:49,620 --> 03:26:52,620
 Did I get that correct?

2797
03:26:52,620 --> 03:26:59,020
 >> If they are requesting translation services, is there a specific location that they search

2798
03:26:59,020 --> 03:27:00,700
 to find?

2799
03:27:00,700 --> 03:27:04,220
 If somebody needs translation services, how would they find to request it?

2800
03:27:04,220 --> 03:27:07,160
 >> Thank you, I appreciate you asking that and I should have specified that request needs

2801
03:27:07,160 --> 03:27:09,820
 to be through the city secretary's office.

2802
03:27:09,820 --> 03:27:13,660
 The city secretary's office makes the arrangements for the translation services.

2803
03:27:13,660 --> 03:27:20,660
 >> Yeah, I guess just follow up if we can double check and make sure the standard agenda

2804
03:27:20,660 --> 03:27:25,740
 forms have that information in them.

2805
03:27:25,740 --> 03:27:28,740
 I see visual representation.

2806
03:27:28,740 --> 03:27:34,180
 >> Last page, because I was looking at the front page of the agenda.

2807
03:27:34,180 --> 03:27:40,100
 So at the very end of the agenda in all capital letters, it does mention that the city of

2808
03:27:40,100 --> 03:27:43,620
 Denton's designated public meeting facilities are accessible in accordance with Americans

2809
03:27:43,620 --> 03:27:45,260
 with Disabilities Act.

2810
03:27:45,260 --> 03:27:48,660
 The city will provide accommodations such as sign language interpreters for the hearing

2811
03:27:48,660 --> 03:27:53,020
 impaired if requested at least 48 hours in advance of the schedule meeting, please call

2812
03:27:53,020 --> 03:28:01,820
 the city secretary's office at 940-349-8309 or use telecommunication devices for the deaf

2813
03:28:01,820 --> 03:28:06,200
 by calling 1-800-RELAY-TX so that reasonable accommodations can be arranged.

2814
03:28:06,200 --> 03:28:12,140
 So while it does not specifically address translation services, we do provide and work

2815
03:28:12,140 --> 03:28:18,820
 on that assistance, so hopefully again contacting the city secretary's office for that service

2816
03:28:18,820 --> 03:28:20,780
 and then they will make sure they coordinate with us.

2817
03:28:20,780 --> 03:28:21,780
 >> Very good.

2818
03:28:21,780 --> 03:28:22,780
 All right.

2819
03:28:22,780 --> 03:28:25,020
 It sounds like no matrix additions.

2820
03:28:25,020 --> 03:28:29,700
 Are there any concluding items, anyone?

2821
03:28:29,700 --> 03:28:35,540
 Thank you, everybody, for a little bit longer night, but I think there were lots of things

2822
03:28:35,540 --> 03:28:38,220
 to consider, so thank you for your time.

2823
03:28:38,220 --> 03:28:45,820
 With that, I will adjourn the planning and zoning meeting on June the 25th.