WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:16.560 Good morning, we are here at the city of didn't meeting agenda here to hear mobility committee, Wednesday, June 25 2025 10am and our council work session room. 00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:22.720 First we have on our agenda is for the citizens comments. 00:00:22.720 --> 00:00:24.080 Do we have any citizens comments? 00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.320 Anybody? 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:39.680 Okay, okay, we do go down to number two items for individual consideration a MC to five there's zero to six, consider approval of the minutes of the May 28 2025. 00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:46.960 Madam chairman, I reviewed the minutes and they are to my recollection so I approve I move they be approved as submitted. 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:55.840 Okay, we have a second, madam chair I also reviewed the minutes and they do they also match my recall. 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.240 So I told you that I told you that. 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.440 All right, so we'll move for approval all in favor. 00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:01.940 Aye. 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:12.880 So the eyes have it be MC to five dash two oh eight, I'm sorry, zero to eight staff member randoms. 00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:18.720 We'll start with the economic benefit on balance anybody needs to go through that. 00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:27.200 A little summary of what's happening. 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:34.880 Good morning, chair and members. 00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:42.160 For hand but deputy director of transportation services division and so this item. 00:01:44.160 --> 00:02:05.600 Basically describes the economic benefits of bollards this is these are case by case are installed on case by case basis depending on what the context of the location is and typically the requirement is to separate the movements of. 00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:23.040 Of modes that are that have differential speeds that have speed differentials we're not necessarily they are used for bikes, but they are they've been used for the movements of in many cases buses public transportation, as well as pedestrians and. 00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:33.040 In other cases there the uses been for for on the economic development side where their businesses where there are. 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:51.280 Certain setting that needs a lot of pedestrian and mixed bike flow flows and don't they're used there as well, so they they certainly present a lot of economic benefits, but if not used properly they may present some challenges as well. 00:02:51.280 --> 00:03:05.200 Okay, so am I understanding that you are we're going through that process right now you am I understanding that you all are trying some things right now in the city to. 00:03:06.320 --> 00:03:09.840 You know, give us some information about what works best is that happening now. 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:17.320 We did that in last presentation to the mobility committee and then there are two options that we selected is the regular. 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:31.160 Candle or stick type bollards and the other is where we have a concrete block separators and we are going to opt for both options in the city and, of course, third is. 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:44.920 Take full benefits of striping instead of bollards and we will on its context based again you know where wherever what works, we will apply okay. 00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:53.280 Okay, you're well i'm just kind of getting to the point where you are it just seems like you all just made the decision it just doesn't seem like. 00:03:53.280 --> 00:04:01.800 When you're saying well we're going to make the decision, do you mean like we as in the Community or are you saying we as in you in your team. 00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:18.000 So that's staff plus community participation okay it's always there in all our projects so community perception community participation their feedback is always there all right, and so this will be staff plus community engagements and other stakeholders all right, well, I knew that. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.840 But I just didn't want that to be taken out of the context for anybody that didn't know that. 00:04:22.840 --> 00:04:27.280 All right, so we have your hand here, would you like to go first. 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:37.840 I would I would love to so this was a something that that I asked to come back a little bit so appreciate you covering sort of the 10,000 foot view. 00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:51.560 I think one of the things that we were bringing forward from the last discussion we were discussing sort of the styles and roles of different kinds of lane separators I think one of the things we were questioning for. 00:04:52.520 --> 00:05:02.480 So that we can make recommendations to Council was some of the actual cost benefits numerically so not that there are. 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:14.960 costs and there are benefits which I appreciate you laid out very clearly sort of the circumstances where they land, but I think we wanted to have a better feel not being in transportation sort of. 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:24.840 More like when you gave us numbers like Okay, it was a $75 install ballard it's a $50 raw ballard it was a $300 ballard. 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:43.760 You know, and then more along the lines of when when we do that, you know it'll cost us X but will benefit why financially, I think that was more the gist of a lot of our questioning for for bring for continuing this on so. 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:52.920 I at some point, I still would like to see those sort of cost benefit structures that would go into some future. 00:05:52.920 --> 00:06:04.480 You know, planning, just so that we can get a feel like because if there's a solution that's that's same slightly more expensive, but also has great economic benefit. 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:14.800 Then we need to see that it see if it pencils out kind of thing, and you know i've been a big proponent of them, one of the things we didn't discuss last time. 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:22.080 Was like zebra cycling, you know, like the sort of half footballs. 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:39.920 Looking things that that kind of replace the concrete bollards and and I wondered if if you had considered those when when you were looking at the types of stick versus concrete bollards the 75 versus the $300 ones. 00:06:41.080 --> 00:06:59.400 You know, obviously you're going to have more lane separation and and better division because someone someone's not going to want to drive over concrete versus they they might drive over some sort of three foot rubber bollard but if those rubber bollards cost 50 bucks, which is what it suggests online. 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:18.080 Then I could see that being some sort of you know transitional thing they're highly visible still and no one wants to drive over them, but they could drive over them so i'd love to get some feedback from y'all on whether you consider those. 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:35.680 So first question on the cost the three projects that we presented as as preferred projects in last presentations their costs were updated instead of just per linear foot costs we provided. 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:45.160 total cost for each project, including with the with the bollards or with the concrete block and that updated presentation is there, and we could maybe circulated again. 00:07:47.080 --> 00:07:59.920 To provide you that the copy of that presentation on the other types of bollards that you've mentioned, we have we put them all in the consideration, not only the the secular ones. 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:02.400 But, but many others. 00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:12.640 The main one of the technical issue with the with most of the bollards is their maintenance upkeep and their. 00:08:12.640 --> 00:08:14.840 Their. 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:31.920 maintenance in not only in in terms of design, but also in terms of aesthetics, which is which becomes a problem later on with the Community members and with rubber bollards another issue is that these. 00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:49.040 spacing in in many cases, the bollards in the straight edge straight line there'll be wider space available and that's where these vehicles, they may start using those separated flow lanes as parking spots. 00:08:49.040 --> 00:09:02.520 And we have seen that in many on many streets, so I think concrete block that's why is preferred and it will help in some of those locations and in others, we can use these candle type or stick type. 00:09:03.560 --> 00:09:16.240 You know, I appreciate the answer to both of those for the first question I I saw the project costs and everything, but that was still not that was, I mean, I guess my question is. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:29.560 That was for specific projects and I guess my then the follow up would be are those I mean it's difficult to assess. 00:09:30.680 --> 00:09:33.360 The. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:48.880 Well, they didn't include economic benefits, but it's difficult to assess when we just get the project costs that's the cost, but the trade offs if you're trying to determine some sort of later budget process for at least the three Council persons. 00:09:50.200 --> 00:10:01.480 It's challenging to know, so I guess what I'm asking is when these come up to something that's going to do a budget, it would be beneficial to know what the. 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:26.240 Benefits that are projected say for the square and other project Malone some of these others, what are the not just the cost of the project to put the item in, but what do we estimate say from from finance or one of the other departments, the pro benefits to to doing these and in terms of increased shopping increased revenue or or decreased as the case may be. 00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:36.240 Staff will circulate this. We will circle back and will provide more information on that. We will have to rework on some of the details that you appreciate that. Thank you. 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.920 I'd like to comment on your statement there. 00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:44.760 Firstly, I believe that. 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:52.200 That was something that was already previously asked, I think you came back around to an already asked question in regards to. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:11:02.680 The pros and cons and the offsets of the benefits in, and I started thinking about our zero vision process that we're going through. 00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:13.400 In using that kind of data, if people are running over bollards and all of that kind of stuff for me looks like that will be included in that. 00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:27.080 That data misusing the space that that's being provided as part of that, so I can see where customer back is just kind of wanting to know that kind of thing, but. 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:40.640 Just for the sake of you not necessarily having to come back around to that, because you had already said that's going to be a part of the study. You know what I mean? Yes. So respectfully speaking, of course. 00:11:42.160 --> 00:12:03.440 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's another aspect, and as I said that we will circle back and provide more information, but one of the challenge is in all transportation aspects is that they're highly context sensitive these costs, even the cost that we will share even the. 00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:15.240 Merits and demerits that will share in terms of fatalities or serious incapacitating injuries would be so context sensitive you if we work on some. 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:34.200 Some heavily used corridors with a lot of hotspots cost changes if you use it on a regular residential street where there are no issues and that's a different so we will provide this information based on the three preferred corridors staff will provide that information based on that. 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:41.360 But in general, it is hard to generalize the cost without a specific corridor. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:13:04.920 Without looking at what is what are the impact factors here and they vary by corridor so so we will staff will provide this information for three preferred corridors that we have that stuff is shared, but in other cases as the corridor is submitted or as we work on them will share. 00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:07.560 That information with stakeholders. 00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:10.840 Oh, okay well. 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:15.440 Go ahead, go around and I do have a question. 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.120 Yes. 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:30.040 Thank you so much for this information, and I think it's still a really exciting project to pursue I know it's it is difficult because, like you said, each section. 00:13:30.760 --> 00:13:48.440 Could be completely different as far as you know, even if we're looking at the economic benefits okay well how many businesses are even on that street and then how big is that street and then how many people live around that street and how many people do we think will actually ride bikes or walk on that area, so I understand that that is that is the challenge. 00:13:50.440 --> 00:14:01.240 I do feel like denton will be eager to support a project, especially if they have some context or a comparison, maybe even. 00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:18.520 To another city that has implemented bollards effectively and maybe that is something when you when we continue this conversation if there's any way again I know the context is going to be extremely varied, but I don't know if that would be helpful for Council to to even see. 00:14:18.520 --> 00:14:29.760 Maybe a similar sized city or even just like if there's any other data out there, because we can't we won't have the data until it is implemented and then even then. 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:39.120 I'm sure there's a process in which you'll have to go and find out how much I don't know how what benefited those businesses or people trying to get to where they want to go. 00:14:40.240 --> 00:15:00.400 Is it possible to to gather some data from a similar sized city and present that to Council as just a way to kind of give a ballpark or kind of a success story and and if so that I believe that that would really help the Council and also our citizens kind of start to understand. 00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:18.800 What this is when you're moving when you're wanting to expand a street to be not just car centric we are such a car centric place it's so hard for us to even identify the benefits of it and most of the time people just think a bike lane is is frustrating. 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:27.920 So is that something that maybe we could also request is the other data, maybe from other places that that it's a similar project in scope. 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:43.760 Yes, stuff will provide this information will circle back with more information on that, but of course, in this comparison, we have to be careful, we can't compare Seattle with Denton because it was very bike heavy and pedestrian heavy and they are equipped and they have a demand. 00:15:44.880 --> 00:16:02.600 And so our comparison would not be with Seattle or Houston or or Austin even Austin, we could compare ourselves with the stuff would compare ourselves with similar sized cities and see if how do we how can we learn maybe best practices, we can provide a summary. 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:19.640 And one other question to you when we're when we're looking at about, you know, evaluating if this could be a great thing, maybe for the local businesses in those corridors, I've had a business in Denton that had a lot of foot traffic. 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:50.400 I'm curious if staff will incorporate some kind of discussion or outreach to business owners or operators in the air in this in these areas to just kind of find out their their thoughts on you know hey we're wanting to put in these ballers here's what the project is here's what we're expecting is there any way we can kind of coordinate with business owners as well just to kind of get their input because it will affect them, hopefully positively. 00:16:50.880 --> 00:17:07.000 We could launch staff could launch study, but there's a budget specific item, the CMO would give direction staff is happy to to conduct this study and this could benefit because, of course, if we are launching and maybe it could become a component of mobility plan update. 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:19.560 As well, because it's not only ballers, but there are many other things we could use, so I think there is a benefit to conduct a thorough study. 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:42.280 But it's a budget item and cassie could the CMO could be on that if this item gets approved in the budget, we can definitely work with our economic development team and get those business owners input and work through you know these projects, these specific projects and get their feedback and make adjustments that way. 00:17:45.440 --> 00:18:15.400 We're going to move on, we're going to hear from this gentleman and then we're going to move on because I'm looking at our time here and we have a lot of things to cover here, but I do want to say that and this is going to be to you because you're the newbie and you're the you know you're the you're the people you know you're the voice of all the people but earlier I asked him in regards to we as in we talking about you all we are we as in all of us we. 00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:32.480 Okay, and this is why I wanted to put that out there like that, because all of those things that you're noting to him that's all part of getting us what we want you know it has to go through the community and get community out you know community voice. 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:51.880 Dr. Beck is very good about reminding us that did it go through the community he'll say did you say, did you put something out there for the community. And sometimes you know it might be a no we didn't get to that part or we haven't gotten to that yet, but that's all part of this whole process by which all of this is going to take place. 00:18:51.880 --> 00:19:01.880 Okay, so don't you know fret on that part that the city is going to do something without going to the community. And of course we're here that you know we're the ones that speak up for you all okay on that. 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.880 Sure, Joe. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:13.880 I'm wondering, the concrete bollard or concrete strips they can't be the same word. 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:20.880 Okay, block block. Okay, thank you. Those are those are quasi permanent. Yes. 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:34.880 Okay. I mean there is a dead returns, if we just keep them permanent, if we keep removing them then what's the point of installing them for first place. Sure, sure. So you put those down and they pretty much stay there, as long as you want them to be there. 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:43.880 Absolutely. Yes. My question is, and that's a retro use. If you were building a new street brand new street. 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:58.880 Would you build in a curb, instead of using a base somewhat limit a somewhat portable bollard. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:15.880 Design requirement of the street, so it has to be part of the design but is, but is required of that street is it. It has access issues. It has, it is arterial or collector, there are a lot of questions that come into play, when it comes to design of 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:25.880 the streets, and even the median that we are talking about is is dependent on design but is required at the intersection where the access points would be. 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:43.880 So, in this case, if we go if the design is a standard design that is followed by engineering, then these concrete blocks present a very, very unique a unique opportunity where we can separate the flows. 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:56.880 In many cases, that design will not include that because design will say, imagine it, we are not talking about medium we are talking about these separators for bike flows and pedestrians. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:15.880 In many cases, multi use paths will be after the green belt on the other side, and if they are bike lanes, they will be separated using using the stripes, or some kind of the delineators or some kind of equipment, it could be bothered as well. 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:29.880 So the design would not go to the details where it says that no we are putting permanent barriers, some kind of concrete barrier or some information when it comes to these bike or pedestrian flows. 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:55.880 Hence, concrete blocks or bollards present a good opportunity where, in addition to the regular striping, we, we add these blocks, and then on top of them we could add bollards, or we could paint these blocks in certain colors to add reflectors to them so they present more opportunity than just a simple design. 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.880 I see. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:16.880 Um, let's go ahead and move on to the growing in the bike books program, just like to maybe spend a little less time on it but thorough. 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:21.880 Good morning, chair, committee members, China city traffic engineer. 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:37.880 On the growing by bus program that we have in one school right now it's a voluntary effort from the parent and PTAs, and staff can assist with them on establishing a route and we can enhance any safety issues. 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:56.880 The staff is planning to follow up with two schools, Rivera elementary school and Alexander elementary school in the fall, to see if they want to pursue that we can not initiate, but if they have a plan, then we can enhance them with safety things are bad the route to the school. 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:16.880 Okay, my question was going to be, if you are in the process of doing that now or is that it says you're going to will reach out so you know how quickly is that it's kind of like something that's within the next month or once the school is in session. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:29.880 The governance zones might change. So, we need to find out where the students are coming from. Okay, and like a sidewalk or a path is not there, then we can add it to the plan to build it. 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:37.880 So, it's a planning effort. So we need to have a school in session to have this conducted. 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:51.880 The sidewalks I can see that right now. I kind of live over in that area. So, that'll be something I look forward to hearing back from okay. Yes, sir. 00:23:51.880 --> 00:24:05.880 Thank you for the information about this I live, my, my children attend Newton razor elementary which is where the bike bus program has been launched and it has been such a huge success I think we've talked about that before. 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:11.880 I believe that the the main parent who has organized that has is moving. 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:25.880 So, I was curious if you said that you're available for schools I guess that that may want to incorporate this, maybe even outside of these two schools mentioned. 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:42.880 So, if other schools and DSP want to adopt a similar program. What's the best way, could we provide information for how maybe those parents could facilitate what you've just described what's the best is what's the best plan of action for 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:47.880 for other families outside of these two schools. 00:24:47.880 --> 00:25:00.880 We, we are trying to reach out in the fall. And if staff has support then they can reach out to us, since we have limited in staff right now. 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:11.880 So if they reach out, we could provide assistance, and we can spread the word out to the DSP that hey, if you need assistance, you can reach out and I will be the point of contact. 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.880 That's amazing. 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:19.880 Thank you very much. 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:26.880 So we're going to move on to the next one. The Hickory Creek crossing gate evaluation. 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:43.880 Yes, I think on the January meeting, a committee member Susie rumor asked about if we can incorporate separate pedestrian gate crossing at railway crossings particularly at the future brush Creek crossing at 377. 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:59.880 We reached out our consultant who is at the design phase, they said they will be able to incorporate and trade offs are, they will be building a side path on one side and a sidewalk on the other side, which will be a 10 feet and a five feet. 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:13.880 And with that, they said they will be able to incorporate a gate. So it needs a little more wider width of right of way for the gate arms to come and close and open. So it could be done. 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:14.880 Okay. 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:32.880 And how long would something like that, can we guess to me that is this is that something within this budget year or is it would lead over into the next year, I would say it is a two three year effort with the railway UPR are their review times 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:34.880 are much longer. 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:40.880 So I would optimistically envision 2027 28. Okay, right. Thank you. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:51.880 Anyone else. 00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:59.880 Side side path versus bicycle path. Is that what you said. 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:09.880 Sidewalks sidewalk versus side path. That's right. And the, and the difference is simply the width. That's right. Okay, and side paths are multipurpose lanes bikes and 00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:18.880 pedestrians can use it sidewalks are only for pedestrians. Okay. And do I understand that there's actually a gate. 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:34.880 Like a like a railroad crossing gate. Exactly. And what actuates that when a train comes in, they have circuits that close the gates, so that pedestrians are fully protected not crossing. I didn't, I didn't see it that I got it now. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:39.880 Thank you. Yes, sir. 00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:51.880 I really appreciate staff reaching out and arranging for this it's awesome it's it's nice to get that the development change I'm sure if Council room or we're here, she would also praise you. 00:27:51.880 --> 00:28:04.880 It's something that she really stressed. I wonder going forward for similar circumstances. When we have side paths and bikeways. 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:21.880 If it wouldn't just be better in the long run to try to incorporate these kinds of pedestrian accesses and cycle accesses in the design phase for all gates, rather than have the community come back and go hey, can I have this out on. 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:34.880 I know there might be a modest cost increase for that sort of thing but you know that's that's when mobility committee or council, you know, we'll see an option. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:52.880 Option B because then we know, and there may not be an, you know, but that way we will, we can go with the, you know, the one that that the community is is most supportive of sure if there is a right of way permits right now in the downtown core it's pretty much saturated. 00:28:52.880 --> 00:29:06.880 But this location is a new crossing, and it has its barren land, so you have a lot more right of ways to play with in the downtown quite zone areas it's pretty much very limited on the space. 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:18.880 So that's why we don't have the luxury to add side paths for 10 feet. So we are working with what we have. But in this unique situation it's a new crossing we are working with the PRR. 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:37.880 So, no, it makes a lot of sense and I do think we probably have some, some facilities like you know we're the community approved the bond for mingo. So there's probably an opportunity for that long stretch from from downtown out through 380 to at least think about those 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:45.880 kinds of changes for the for the crossings as as available, we will think. 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.880 Okay, well, did you have a question. 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:56.880 Okay, we'll move on to the native Schultz elementary school and intersection. 00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:13.880 So, we've been working with the school for a lot more pedestrian crossings always stop signs, and the recent inquiry we got from the April mobility crossing is the school wanted to eliminate parking space so that existing crossing can be visible for both 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.880 the pedestrians and the vehicles to see the kids crossing. 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:26.880 And we are working with our operations team. So they should be able to implement the changes before the school opens in the fall. 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.880 Anybody have any questions. 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.880 Well that's great. 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.880 And 380 pedestrian signal position. 00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:55.880 Yes, when we were working on this. We estimated, it will be in the summer, but already our traffic operations staff has completed the work as of yesterday, that they isolated some pedestrian movements so now when they are able to cross Malone at 380, they will 00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:08.880 see the paid signs right across from the crosswalk. So it's easy for the pedestrians to see when their face is getting coming along, how many time they have remaining to cross. 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.880 So it's a huge improvement, and it's already completed as of yesterday. 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.880 Excellent. I'm going to drive over there. 00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:17.880 Check that out. 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:25.880 But I need to go back on my little kindergarten level question here. 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:35.880 Just visually, if I am going towards the school on Malone, but I'm only on this side of Malone I believe Whataburger is over there. 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:41.880 Am I seeing some signs straight up on the, on the pole. 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:47.880 Or are those poles, you know, just from the intersection. 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:59.880 And the previously pedestrians when they push the button it was, it was on the traffic pole. Yeah, but now we isolated so pedestrians will have a separate pedestrian push activations. 00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:06.880 That's much closer to where the pedestrian facilities are. So it's much more convenient and easy to interpret. 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:16.880 Good, good, good. Yes, sir. Yeah, no, I just wanted to commend you for that because keeping the pedestrians in in the, in the vision cone of the driver is super important. 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:24.880 Because otherwise they, they're just, you know, you don't know they're there so I'm really thankful that we hit we narrowed that window. 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:45.880 Look at us, look at us being awesome. We're awesome. Thank you. And then the last one is a revising standard for a collector in our two year olds. 00:32:45.880 --> 00:33:01.880 For her but deputy director of transportation services division. So, in this case, we are launching stuff is launching the mobility plan update in mid of 2026. 00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:22.880 Staff is applied for SS 40 2025 us duty grant for about a million dollars, and that this mobility plan update and a transition plan update is part of this, this grant application and stuff for hopes to receive funding and then 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:40.880 it is anticipated that this project will be started by the mid of 2026 stuff recommends that it should be aligned with mobility these classification reclassification should be aligned with mobility plan update, because of many reasons. 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:56.880 One of them is development review process that hinges on these classifications, and at large the developments, they rely on these classifications so any changes would would have impacts on those ongoing developments. 00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:17.880 Another aspect is that stuff would like to look at the complete hierarchy in terms of strodes and others, other other classifications, we would start would like to thoroughly understand how what should be added and what should be left in terms of, as an 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:35.880 example major collector was recently added for East winter connector, as, as part of this process so it will be an ex, it will be an expansive process long process where we will look into this reclassification reclassifications 00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:47.880 thoroughly. And that's why staff recommends that we align these reclassification with the mobility plan update. 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:50.880 I'm going to ask you for three definitions. 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.880 What is in collector. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:58.880 What is an arterial road. And what is a strode for educational purposes. 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:14.880 So, for stored is a segment of a road that is typically aligned with economic interests of businesses or residential areas, where it provides. 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:29.880 Access points to those, those business interests or residential interests. It could be a road, or it could be a street. When it comes to roads, it could be a segment of a road, or it could be a segment of a street, when it comes to 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:50.880 streets, streets are urbanized area part of urbanized area road networks that are leading to shorter destinations and roads are typically aligned with the longer, or the pairs of, for instance, if we are traveling from Denton to Fort Worth will be 00:35:50.880 --> 00:36:01.880 taking a road versus if we are traveling from within Denton, we will likely be traveling on some streets which are providing direct access to businesses. 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:22.880 When it comes to collector, it's a low speed roadway, relatively low speed roadway that operates at 30 to 35 miles per hour range, and typically it provides access direct access points, connecting the residential streets to collector, and 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:42.880 which collector then eventually delivers those that traffic to to arterials. When it comes to arterials, they are at a higher speed, typically above 35 go to 4040 play above 40 and onwards, and they are connected to the collectors. 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:54.880 And then to residential streets. And so they take traffic from residential street to collectors, and then it that traffic is delivered to arterials, and then to freeways and and higher hierarchy. 00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:03.880 So that's how the classification system operates, they can have sub layers like major collectors or minor arterials. 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:06.880 Thank you that was very educational. 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.880 Appreciate that. 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:18.880 Sure. I appreciate I appreciate all this I think we absolutely it's critical so I'm glad I'm really glad you're going through and, and you know, revising and updating. 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.880 I have a request. 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:44.880 And that is, I, you did a great job defining street and a really great job defining road. But in my entire experience with this strode is a derogatory divisive or derisive term used to show that something is neither a good street nor good road it's the worst of all possible 00:37:44.880 --> 00:38:08.880 circumstances mixture of the two. And so I, it feels like we're in, we're verging on codifying this, this derisive term strode that the mobility community uses derogatorily so I don't I don't know that we want to use that as a category, because it's 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:27.880 something used to, to derive bad roads bad design where we've tried to mix too many, you know things together in a bad way so maybe maybe you could comment on that because more strode is not what this town needs we need more better more intentional 00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:43.880 streets, better more intentional roads but not hybridizing these things to the worst of all possible worlds. So, when staff says that we will reclassify we are not reclassifying to strode, strode are not classified, they happen. 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:58.880 They evolve. Roads or street segments evolve to strode as the developments are built as access points are added without consideration or even with consideration but over the period of time. 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:19.880 20 years 30 years time frame, a street or a road segment with the, with oncoming developments may become strode eventually, and may start acting like strode, it won't be classified as strode it will be an arterial or it will be a minor arterial functional classification. 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:33.880 It could be a road, but if a bunch of developments that if a bunch of developments come across on both sides, it may become strong so how it will be helpful identifying strode intention, because they exist. 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:51.880 If, if we agree or not, but due to the presence of these developments many of our streets may become strode. By identifying these throat segments, we can improve them for road safety, because these access points they call they cause weaving problems. 00:39:51.880 --> 00:40:11.880 And when weaving problems come into play. They are potential locations for, but they are doing hotspots, basically. So we staff would identify these stores as part of the mobility plan process and say, and ask ourselves that, how do we prioritize 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:27.880 them. Where does the safety of these stores segments stand, and if it is party will start improvements to safety improvements there that's the only objective, we are not reclassifying we are not adding another classification for strokes. 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:41.880 I appreciate that that clarity I appreciate the sort of sort of restatement that we're trying to find, you know potential hotspots that are that are potentially problematic that that makes a lot of sense. 00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:58.880 I know it's a little pedantic but sometimes in wording matters and so I asked that we make sure that we're talking about them in a undesirable fashion, so that we never lose track of the, you know, we need a new design. 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:11.880 When it starts verging into a strode we've got to be intentional about fixing strokes. I just, I just asked that we kind of keep that intentionality in mind, because sometimes words matter. 00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:19.880 So, that's all I appreciate that, but that was intense that was very informative. 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:32.880 And as you were speaking I was thinking about a sector of that's in my district, and I'm always just mindful of it in that's that road that comes up. 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:48.880 Dallas driving and make a right turn on to the shady old society sores over there going over in the Woodrow. You can see where it's starting to become a, an issue at this time, you know, so just keeping an eye on those roads that are already here. 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:55.880 So which which definitely makes a lot of sense, strengthening the core. 00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:57.880 Yes ma'am. 00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:05.880 This is something I think just so encouraged to hear your perspective and your passion for this. 00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:20.880 I have the same concerns about, you know, we, we don't want to be like well we've got strode and yay we want to say we've got strode Oh, what do we do now. So that is, I think that's a step in the right direction for sure and I know that is going to be a really 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:31.880 really big project because Denton has evolved over 100 years and you know and the city continues to grow in new ways. 00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:36.880 So what I'm curious is, you've kind of mentioned a few things here. 00:42:36.880 --> 00:43:04.880 Is it possible for you to sort it to. You talked about a road and a street. When we determine that something is a strode. How will you determine what do we now want to call it a road, or we do we now want to call it a street and a street is more pedestrian friendly kind 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:13.880 of get around. So what when we determine something is a strode is that something that as you, we've been talking about this you'll kind of have a framework for what do we do next. 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:24.880 How do we now, which do we want to convert it more towards a street, or do we want to convert it more towards a road and set up facilities based on that determination. 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:36.880 Yes, streets and roads are general planning and engineering terms that engineers and planner use when they're having conversations about a certain segment of a facility. 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:43.880 They are not classified specifically into our mobility plan hierarchy of classification. 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:54.880 When it comes to mobility plan we talk in the language of arterials collectors and, and freeways, even arterial collectors, more specifically. 00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:10.880 So, for our discussion purposes for staff discussion purposes we staff will always rely on mobility plan classification, when it comes to mentioning them in our documentation in our reports. 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:30.880 So, for in depth analysis, we may create a layer, a GIS layer, which will be offline it, and then we could use that for our road safety analysis just like we have crash data layers, where we exactly know where our hotspots are where 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:43.880 high fatality hotspots are, where we are serious in capacitating injury hotspots are, staff could have another layer, GIS thematic layer, that will provide us information on possible strokes. 00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:44.880 Okay. 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:49.880 But, but classification stays with collectors and according to the mobility plan. 00:44:49.880 --> 00:45:06.880 Yes, and I do want to mention that we do have in August we're planning to bring back a greater discussion about strode so we have just kind of an evaluation and then talking about stress in general and what we have in the city, so we'll, we'll be talking about it in August. 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:22.880 And not to not to continue the conversation too much further but as you've said to, how can we incorporate and invite the community to give us feedback because as of now, even when the mobility plan got going you know Denton has even changed 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:38.880 since then we now, where I live in the Newton razor area we have, or, I'm sorry razor ranch area we have so many more people on foot walking and they are walking on roads, they are finding ways to get to Walmart they're finding ways to get to where they need to go 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:53.880 whether or not they have a good path so I'm curious how we can, as we kind of address, you know, any updates to the ability plan. Can we continue to reach out for our community and ask for their feedback on what they want to do with our roads and our streets. 00:45:53.880 --> 00:46:04.880 That is a continuous process in all transportation services. In fact, and in all development services projects, community engagement is an integral piece of every project that we do. 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:10.880 Great. Wonderful. Thank you. 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:19.880 Quickly, I'm fascinated with you with your definition of roads and streets and even strode. I'm very clear on that. 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.880 Tell me what a drive is. 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:37.880 So drive is a short. So drive access you can say it is a short, short segment to access some point that is close by for instance, we have a drive through to. 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:53.880 We have a drive access to a home. We have a drive to a certain community. So it's a short access, and it could be, it could be usually delineated as something lower than residents residential streets. 00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:57.880 That's excellent. That's excellent. Thank you. 00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:02.880 You know we have driveways to our house. 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:19.880 It can be used for terminal access as well for for any facility that we are separating from a main functional classification to access. It could be that warehouses or factory or installations, we just rattle these names off, and, and it, and it's not. 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:38.880 They have they have words have meanings, words have meanings, and they, they do, and, and I think we need to be respectful of what the, what the what the meaning is drives me crazy when somebody says Bell Bell Street can't stand that. 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.880 Thank you. 00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:49.880 A parking lot, a, let's say a mall parking lot. Is, are those drives? 00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:57.880 Parking lot lots of extensive again, sometimes they have like in Dallas, they have direct access from arterials or collectors as well. 00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:09.880 And even in our streets here, we have direct access from collectors and arterials. So, if they are a private parking lot in a residential neighborhood, yes, it could be called as drive. 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:18.880 Okay, but the access point, but generally, the larger ones within the city jurisdictions, they have direct access from arterials or collectors. 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:25.880 UNT parking lot, for example, is a good one where they have a drive access to their parking lot in it. 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:26.880 Okay. 00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:32.880 Parking garage. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at that. 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:47.880 The center of the city right now the core of the city are we are we on a on a under under the understanding that these are streets around here. 00:48:47.880 --> 00:49:05.880 Other than you like Bell Avenue, not the big ones, not McKinney, but always always settle with the fact that streets are more interior or does these do these large neighborhoods are those considered streets. 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:17.880 Yes, they are streets from from the definition of where they are providing access. If we are not looking at it, we're not looking at functional classification for a general discussion for a general discussion. Yes. 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:28.880 Anything in the core urban area of a city would be street because it provide access to Starbucks or some coffee shop or a retail shop or gas station. 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:43.880 And then road is essentially a good example would be from I 35 interchange Carol, that turns it to Fort Worth, all the way to country club or Crawford Drive is a road. 00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:45.880 Those are roads. 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:54.880 Yeah, because what's what's kind of confusing me at this particular junction, and I'm being selfish in thinking about my own you know my own district right now. 00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:58.880 But I'm thinking about McKinney Street. 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:04.880 And then you have those neighborhood streets. 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:12.880 And they just don't seem like the same, you know, don't have the same definite, they don't look like the same definition. 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:25.880 McKinney Street is much larger and busier than if I turn off McKinney Street and go on Wood Street or something like that. I mean, you know, you just got a couple of little, you know, he this way or that way. 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:28.880 So, how does the definition. 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:44.880 How, how, how, why, why, why, why can connect those two to the same word. So neighborhood streets are locals, typically, if we're, if the question is about the neighborhood streets versus McKinney neighborhood streets would be locals, 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:53.880 and they are typically named by the development or whatever the neighborhood is there are certain naming 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.880 naming rules that are followed. 00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:03.880 For McKinney, it's the street because it provides access to multiple uses. 00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:06.880 In case of. 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:22.880 It could be gas stations developments, there are multiple access points and Carol Boulevard after I 35 all the way to country club or Crawford is a road because there are not many uses in between. 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:39.880 In fact, after I 35 there are minimal uses, it's only access points to some developments, no, no commercial at all. So, that's that's clearly defining how these two, three different levels are. 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:53.880 All right. Well, that's interesting. I've learned so much this morning. Does anybody have any other questions for revising standards recollectively and arterial roads. All right, well we're looking forward to those standard revisions there. 00:51:53.880 --> 00:52:09.880 Thank you, sir. I will move on to see MC to five days 029 receive a report and hold discussion and give staff direction regarding future meeting topics. 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:14.880 Information sheet. Okay. 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:23.880 So, you're going to guide us through all of this. 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:28.880 So we're looking at all the yeses. 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:30.880 We discussed the. 00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.880 Am I, I'm out of order. Am I go ahead. 00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:42.880 Yeah, so, so if there are any items that needs to be removed, we can do that now. And some of the items have been presented, and we look for for the direction. 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:48.880 Does anybody have any questions. I was just gonna move we accept all the essence. Okay. Okay. 00:52:48.880 --> 00:53:02.880 I'm not sure. I motion. So what I should I say I would like to keep to if it unless we specifically the ones that we're waiting for the fall school year. 00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:13.880 Okay, because I would like to know. I'd like to follow up on those so I don't know if that's something that we could just add a new item later and go ahead and remove these or if we should keep them on. 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:24.880 What are your, what are your recommendations. My recommendation personally is that we should keep them on until we get to that point where he can say that we've done months until we can even address those. 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:38.880 So I'd like to keep them on anybody else in agreement with that. Oh, yes. Yes, ma'am. And just for clarification, you're talking about growing the bike bus program, and the elementary school intersection. 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.880 Yes, we can leave that. 00:53:41.880 --> 00:54:06.880 Okay, so we can get back on. We can restate your motion. Well, why don't we let Lauren do that because she was clarity on that. I move that I move that we keep approved that we approve of the list. 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:15.880 But except for number two, number two, and number 11. 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.880 Okay, we get second. Okay, so it's been moved a second. 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:23.880 There's any additional discussion on that. 00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:34.880 Okay, if there's not any of the discussion will discuss the discussion and adding things so I just want to bullet that for a second, but not on this vote. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:40.880 Do you want to keep those separate or put them together chair, she said, no. 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:54.880 Adding things to the matrix. Do you want to have the additions separate from the request to remove or do you want them to do the request to the remove that's what I thought. 00:54:54.880 --> 00:55:07.880 And all in favor say aye. Aye. 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:17.880 Something, and that is something to this particular these this to the list. Yes. Yes. Oh yeah we can lose. Yeah, we're gonna. 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:28.880 Yeah, that was gonna be separate. Okay, because I was gonna, you know, note that there's some other things that are not listed there but we usually generally add on whatever we would like to however you want to handle that. 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:33.880 Okay, well, let's just do that right now since we've already voted on the other thing. What would you like to add on. 00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:54.880 Yeah, I want to bring to staffs attention feedback from the community. Could we get a little report and clarity about some of the the parking in the Evers Parkway area I think you had a zoom meeting on that yesterday, I got some community feedback. 00:55:54.880 --> 00:56:13.880 What's the confusion. You know what are the goals, what are we trying to attain who requested what we're how does it fit into our mobility plan kind of thing so in that area changes to that that staff are considering, I'd like to hear more about that. 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:31.880 Because my feedback from the community was all over the place that they don't understand exactly who did what where, why, and, and it's difficult to respond to them. So if we could get some clarity on that those mobility suggestions in the Evers Parkway near Evers Elementary. 00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:48.880 That'd be lovely I'd like to get some information on that. And you could either. I mean, I know that we probably want to get that to the board, but I mean if it's just a one off thing to me, that's also acceptable, depending on what the board wants to do. 00:56:48.880 --> 00:57:05.880 That would be one. And the other thing I want to ask about that I don't see on the list. 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:20.880 Yeah, we're, we're still we have a draft of the study, but we're still working through comments and trying to finalize the, the report. So as soon as we're, we're finished we will bring that to mobility before it goes to council. 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:36.880 The citywide parking study. We're going to do the citywide parking study at the end of July, and then council later that was the date it was requested it was requested last year. I'm sorry in 2023 we're still working through. 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:51.880 I'm sorry. That's my mistake. It's still to be determined the dates on the parking studies when I'm hearing. Yes. Okay. Well, I mean, I think we're all very interested because it's such a critical component of our mobility plan so so. 00:57:51.880 --> 00:58:07.880 And I will say this before I have good 40 is that I remember us going through the public going to the public and you know, giving getting public comment about this I remember downtown. 00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:18.880 Yeah, yeah and they make sure that they speak they spoke on it quite a bit with us a few people so I do know that that is has been part of it so was that what you were going to. 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:21.880 Okay, good. 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:26.880 If possible, for our next meeting. 00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:41.880 I live near the brand new elementary school and I don't know if this is the right place to bring this up but Reeves Elementary, which is also near Denton High, there's currently a lot of road construction happening in that area. 00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:48.880 So for the sake of my neighbors whose children will be attending that school, I would like to see if there's any. 00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:55.880 What the plan is as far as the best routes for for families to walk to Reeves. 00:58:55.880 --> 00:59:14.880 And, again, just to kind of, I'm sure you've presented but that intersection at Bonnie Bray and I'm forgetting what that little road is yeah is it right right right right so I I'm anticipating there's going to be a lot of congestion over there. 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:21.880 So I'd be, I would love to see, you know, kind of what the plan would be before the beginning of the school year, especially for this. 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:26.880 Neighborhood. And, and also I'm sure in your consideration. 00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:42.880 The families that are zoned are in that North Lakes neighborhood so how they're how we might recommend that they walk to school whether that's okay if they go through North Lakes Park, if I imagine a lot of families are going to want to cut through the park 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:55.880 to get to school. Is there a safe way, way that they can get there if it's muddy and raining, or are we going to ask that they go all the way around Bonnie Bray, and if so, is that even a safe way for our kids to get to that school. 00:59:55.880 --> 01:00:03.880 Sure. Okay, have you you all haven't done your public engagement on that on that upgrade over there yet. 01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:23.880 The construction or construction of the road that's in the capital projects question I think we have done public engagement for the for especially the Bonnie Bray project and the running road project, but we do have plans for pedestrian crossing in that area so we can bring 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:35.880 on 377 pedestrian crossing do you all know if those kids are going to be zoned over there that lives by the water tower and all of that. I'm not sure about the zoning but we can find out. Okay, yeah, because that'll be, we'll have to look at that. 01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:41.880 I guess, you know, maybe that 377 completion of that gotta be close. Yeah, yeah. 01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:47.880 Okay. All right, but thank you. Anything else we want to add on. 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:57.880 All right, well let's look at. Oh, did we, yeah we voted already. So me future matrix items, it looks like we are done. 01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:08.880 Okay, well we will close this well the next meeting is going to be on July 30, and we're going to close this meeting out at 11 on 3am Thank you all.