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 Good afternoon, welcome to the planning and zoning work session at 5 or 6 p.m. this Wednesday.

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 Our first order of business is comments on the consent agenda from members of the public.

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 If there's anybody wishing to speak, not seeing anybody.

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 Our next item will be clarifications for the committee on the agenda, so any questions

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 on the consent agenda tonight?

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 I guess that is our agenda tonight, fairly short regular meeting.

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 Any questions?

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 Okay, I guess not.

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 That brings us to our work sessions.

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 The first one, I'm sorry I don't have the number, is it, I, sorry, PZ25-109 for the

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 live work overlay that you've been working on.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Mia Hines, senior planner.

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 And this item, give me a second to get set up here.

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 This item, as stated in the caption, or the purpose of this evening's discussion is to

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 implement the live work overlay district action item of the southeastern area plan.

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 Specifically, I'm going to try to present what staff has been considering proposing

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 for this section of the overlay district with regard to the base zoning and land use permissions

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 and then conclude with some discussion to see if we've missed something, to see if the

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 body concurs with what staff is considering, and to make sure that we're balancing the

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 good planning with sort of what we heard from the community.

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 So towards that effort, what I have on this agenda for this presentation is a little recap

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 of the southeastern area plan.

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 For most of you, it might be a little introduction, just as a reminder though for others of the

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 overarching purpose of the discussion.

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 And then we will jump into some of the topics to make sure we all have the same sort of

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 background knowledge and understanding of what a live work unit is, as well as recapping

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 sort of what an overlay district is.

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 And then the meat of the presentation, I think, will be similar to what we see with zoning

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 cases where I'll talk through the summary of the subject area, as well as some of those

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 existing land use conditions and zoning conditions, what staff is considering, and then of course

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 we'll follow with that discussion with some specific questions.

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 So buckle up and let's get into it.

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 So as some of you may recall, the southeastern area plan was adopted last year, last July,

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 after about 18 months of analysis and local community engagement.

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 And the plan is a community-driven plan with six key goals listed there.

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 All goals come with a number of implementable action items, and in the near future staff

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 will bring forward a presentation sort of updating you on the progress of some of these

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 action items.

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 But for tonight's discussion, I want you all to keep in mind the sort of last three goals

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 that I have highlighted there, namely honoring the culture and heritage of southeastern by

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 reestablishing the historic business hub, investing in economic prosperity by removing

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 barriers for home-based businesses, and strengthening neighborhoods and housing affordability by

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 creating this, of course, live work overlay district that we're discussing this evening.

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 So what is a live work unit?

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 Well, per our DDC, it is defined here as a dwelling unit containing an integrated living

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 and working space in different areas of the unit.

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 In order to operate a live work dwelling unit per our code, we require the residential component

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 not exceed 50% of the total gross floor area, which means the non-residential component

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 must occupy 50% or more of the structure.

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 The residential component shall be located above or behind the non-residential portion.

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 Makes sense, sort of maintains that separation from the public realm versus the private realm.

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 Additionally, the residential dwelling unit must be a minimum of 400 square feet.

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 That's pretty standard as we see across living areas for the city of Denton.

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 And then finally, non-residential uses shall be owned and operated by a resident in a live

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 work dwelling unit, something that again could make sense, but what we'll see has been proven

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 to be a bit of a challenge to enforce.

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 So compared to what we typically see with live work land use permissions and requirements

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 of other communities, as well as just in general within the city, these standards aren't outlandish.

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 However, in practice and in terms of providing for the operations of this use to support

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 small business opportunities in this area and sort of activate that cohesive mix of

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 residential and non-residential land uses in the area, we have encountered some challenges,

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 like I said, that require some either significant investments from the non-residential operators

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 or make it just challenging for residential users to actually implement this.

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 So from the standpoint of protecting neighborhood residences, for example, just live work units

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 alone, the DDC doesn't specify which non-residential uses are appropriate for how to develop or

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 how to develop these uses when adjacent to residential uses.

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 So from the standpoint of alleviating barriers for small business owners, the use doesn't

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 allow for the opportunity to sort of utilize vacant structures for neighborhood scale commercial

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 non-residential businesses without also having that living component.

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 So given this information and then what we have with the overlay, how do we get to a

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 creative concept of live work that is that coexistence of the residential and non-residential

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 land uses to address some of these challenges within that same area?

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 A few months ago, Sean and Ashley, I believe, came before this body with an overlay or a

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 boot camp presentation of what an overlay district is.

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 I took this snippet just straight from their presentation.

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 So it may look familiar to some, but I think it explains perfectly what an overlay district

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 is.

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 Excuse me.

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 And essentially, it is an additional layer of regulations added to a base zoning district

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 intended to promote a specific public purpose.

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 I think one of the main districts that come to mind is that Denton Square district where

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 the underlying base zoning is that mixed use downtown zoning district that we have, that

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 MD zoning.

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 But there are some additional design standards that we place in order to have that similar

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 character across the square area.

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 Similarly, the question becomes with everything that we have with the Southeast Indian Area

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 Plan, how can we use this overlay tool and the concept of integrating residential and

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 commercial land uses to help the residents fulfill their vision of compatible neighborhood

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 scale commercial and opportunities within this area?

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 So the subject area itself, the Southeast Indian Area Plan calls out this area highlighted

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 in pink here as the overall overlay district area recommended.

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 Today's discussion will just be over East Prairie Street, that is Section A, or what

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 staff is considering as Section A of the overlay district.

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 And analyzing the existing zoning and land use development patterns and future land use

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 designations within this entire area, we ended up basically sort of subdividing this area

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 because of some similarities that these areas have.

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 So Section B, for example, is mostly undeveloped, that area shown there in orange, mostly vacant

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 undeveloped land with a future land use designation of moderate residential.

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 And Section C is mostly developed land with a future land use designation of low density

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 residential.

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 The item that we are discussing today, Section A, has a bit of a mix.

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 So it's mostly developed, has some undeveloped properties along the west.

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 But as far as the existing land use zoning, we'll get into here in a second, we see a

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 mix of R4 and R7, so mostly residential zoning, but there is a future land use designation

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 of neighborhood mixed use to the north of East Prairie there.

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 There's also a little bit of moderate residential as well as low density residential.

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 So because of these different characteristics, we decided that it might be best to analyze

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 these areas a bit differently because different land use permissions might be appropriate

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 for the various areas, depending on some of those underlying conditions.

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 Additionally, the context of East Prairie Street in general has changed over time.

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 I think as we look at the development of the area over time, we found that types of land

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 uses and the intensity of activity has varied, but we see a sort of similar development pattern

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 and mix of that coexistence of residential and non-residential uses along that same street.

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 In fact, as a part of the feedback that we received during the southeast end area plan,

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 residents recalled a business hub of small black-owned businesses and service provisions

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 within this area along East Prairie Street.

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 So part of the feedback is that they would like to see that area sort of reestablished

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 as that, again, that mix of commercial uses.

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 These images here give sort of a better idea of the existing context along East Prairie.

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 The image, I think, at the top or the both images at the top are or show that that sort

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 of industrial facility adjacent to this area.

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 The images at the bottom left show the single-family residences along East Prairie.

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 And then the image at the bottom right shows some existing non-residential building.

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 I believe this one specifically is a barbershop, a personal service establishment.

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 So you do see that, again, mix of commercial, vacant uses as well as single-family uses.

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 And then just adjacent to that, we have an industrial or two industrial facilities, one

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 north of East Prairie and then one west along on the other side of the train tracks.

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 So again, that mix exists there.

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 And the community wants to be able to take advantage of that and utilize it for additional

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 commercial opportunities.

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 So to make sure that we understand that we heard the vision correctly, staff stays in

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 the streets of Southeast Denton.

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 We truly believe that engagement has become the name of the game for the Southeast Denton

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 community.

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 In addition to the 18 months of community engagement we facilitated during the area

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 planning process, we have put a few additional surveys out and we hosted a block party to

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 get answers regarding some specific policy questions.

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 In January, we utilized a people-based economic development survey to understand what the community

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 needs as far as business assistance and financial management.

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 More directly related to the live work overlay, we launched a couple of surveys specifically

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 listing some of the land uses and asking community members to answer yes or no to the question

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 of is this use appropriate for this area or not?

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 I think the block party in March was well attended and is where we got the most feedback

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 and we heard a pretty decisive call for certain uses.

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 So what we heard and sort of using school grading systems, staff is focused on those

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 land uses that received a 70 percent vote or higher, yes, this is appropriate within

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 the Southeast Denton area.

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 So this means we're taking a hard look at some of the uses shown in green there on that

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 table to the left to see how we might allow some of these uses to be permitted within

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 this area and that is specifically or namely a passing score for sit-down restaurants,

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 small retail, personal service, daycare facilities, mobile food courts, business or trade schools,

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 professional offices, self-service laundry facilities, bank or financial institutions

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 and then medical office.

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 But we also had to know that maintaining the residential or we know that maintaining the

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 residential character is important for the Southeast Dent residents and we have to sort

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 of balance or curtail that information with those permissions with noting the typical

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 areas concerned that we hear from the community as well.

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 So in addition to those land uses that we heard, yes, the community is in support of

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 the land uses in green, we also know that some of the topics of concern that we've heard

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 from them are like parking, traffic, hours of operation, noise and lighting standards

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 and some of how that works for non-residential uses.

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 So what staff is actually proposing and considering for this is a base zoning or given all that

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 feedback and what we're proposing is a base zoning of R7 for this section of the live

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 work overlay.

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 We believe the base zoning would match in or align with the existing zoning in the area.

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 Again, I recopied the zoning map snippet there to show you that some of those properties

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 are R7 currently, some of them are R4 and then when you look at those non-residential

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 uses that the community called for and what the zoning district that those land uses are

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 currently permitted in, we find that half of those uses are either permitted in R7 or

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 allow for like SUP consideration in R7.

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 So changing the base zoning to R7 would of course permit those non-residential units

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 that the community called for.

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 Additionally, because R7 is still a residential zoning district, it ensures certain landscape

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 and land use and height compatibility buffers are still applicable to protect both the existing

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 residential uses within our subject area as well as those single-family residential uses

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 adjacent to our subject area.

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 So we have that R7 base zoning district and then why with changing the zoning from R7

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 why are we still including the overlay, some of the uses the community wants would be permitted

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 but why the overlay then?

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 I think changing the base zoning to R7, like I said, would permit those non-residential

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 uses but the overlay itself would be our creative link to allow additional land uses, flex on

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 some of those barriers that I mentioned earlier and then impose some additional development

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 standards to minimize adverse impacts on the residential uses that are around.

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 So I think the backup provided to you with today's packet included the standards that

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 we are considering for building size, hours of operation, noise, screening and parking

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 so I won't go into those in too much detail but just wanted to list them here to let you

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 know that those are some of the things that we are thinking about and see again if we've

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 missed anything in that.

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 So as for our discussion, I do have some specific questions for you but before we get into those

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 questions and Chair I'll open it up to I guess the best format that you'd like to work with

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 but before we get to those questions I do want to give you guys a sneak peek into what's

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 coming up.

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 Following this work session we will do some additional door knocking to the property owners

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 that live specifically within this area.

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 They were invited to our block party, our survey has launched online so they have had

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 access to provide us with feedback up until this point like everyone else but we kind

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 of want to tailor our approach specifically to ask questions to those property owners

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 about the rezoning of their property and additional development standards and things like that.

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 So we'll come back or we'll do that additional engagement.

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 We do plan to be at the Juneteenth Festival with some of this information as well as seeking

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 some feedback from the community and then as far as what will come before this body

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 there are some other overlay items that Julie will bring forward regarding the residential

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 and height overlay of Southeast Denton and then towards the effort of additional actions

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 that the Southeast Denton area plan called for we will host some workshops in the fall

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 also related to people-based economic development activity.

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 So back to our discussion though for tonight's topic.

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 Chair, I think we could go either one by one asking the questions and opening the floor

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 that way or I can have this slide up and sort of open the floor to anyone who wants to answer.

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 So you're looking for basically feedback on these four questions?

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 Okay, let's before we delve in super specifically on those four are there any just general questions

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 about information you've seen?

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 I know this is new to some members.

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 Welcome by the way to our new members Mary Ann McDuff and Commissioner, sorry Sherry

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 McDade.

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 So any general questions?

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 The history?

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 The Commissioner put it on. Mia to get the recommendation list that's presented how many

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 people were surveyed?

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 Quite a few I don't have those numbers exactly but I can get that back up to you.

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 I think yeah I can I'll have to get that number specifically to you.

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 We had how many attend the we had quite a few people attend the the block party I think

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 about 150 attended the block party and majority of those people did participate in the in

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 the survey.

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 Okay thank you.

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00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,400
 Commissioner Dyer?

226
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:24,760
 Kind of to piggyback um like what percentage of the community is that that is voiced their

227
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:30,360
 feedback attended these informational meetings like are we seeing the majority of the community

228
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,080
 is giving good response is it less than half?

229
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,880
 It is less than half if I can answer that for sure.

230
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:42,960
 I think we've we've had a challenge with the southeast end area plan and and getting feedback

231
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:49,360
 from that community we've tried quite a few different things to reach out or some are

232
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,200
 non-traditional planning meetings where we we actually try to go to the community like

233
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,080
 I mentioned that we'll be at the Juneteenth Festival in Juneteenth being at those events

234
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,840
 and popping up and things like that.

235
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:07,120
 So I think we we tend to see a good mix of people um but I personally would like to have

236
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,960
 much more involvement from from the southeast end area.

237
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,520
 Residents and business owners there will they will some of them be really surprised when

238
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:20,120
 they find out that this is changing or I mean are most people for this so that they can

239
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,120
 get the services that they want?

240
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:26,540
 Yeah the land or the from the people that we heard again these are the the percentage

241
00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:30,440
 of people who said yes these are the the land uses that they feel are appropriate for this

242
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:36,080
 area so I don't I think that that what we're proposing is sort of in line with with what

243
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:42,960
 we've heard.

244
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,760
 Commissioner McDade.

245
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,840
 Specifically with the property owners do you have an idea of how many property owners there

246
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,800
 are and the feedback from specifically the property owners?

247
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,800
 Not within the survey or from the survey results we will be able to get that and have that

248
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,520
 more defined I'm hoping with the door knocking that we do coming up where again we're tailoring

249
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,720
 specific questions for the property owners are hoping to speak to them on a one-on-one

250
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:13,520
 basis and I do know within this section of the area there's 13 32 parcels half of which

251
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:21,080
 are currently homeowners residences and then the other half are either undeveloped or commercial

252
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,080
 sort of businesses or vacant property.

253
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:29,160
 So and within this section of the overlay it'll be 17 residences about 32 different

254
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,320
 parcels just within this section.

255
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:35,320
 Commissioner McDuff.

256
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:43,160
 Thank you so glad to be here great job just wondering how you've involved Councilwoman

257
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,600
 Vicki Byrd.

258
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,940
 She's been very involved throughout the process the course adoption of the area plan process

259
00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:57,080
 I think she was letting the community drive it for the most part and sort of stood as

260
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,720
 the you know sounding board for us and things of that nature but yeah she's been very involved

261
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,600
 in that in that process.

262
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:14,440
 And also my second question is just as a suggestion I find it sometimes useful to go to MLK Center

263
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:20,640
 and talk to all ages folks but also the American Legion Center.

264
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,480
 Yes we have a complete list of like sort of all of the stops that we did on the area plan

265
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:31,040
 tour and a few of most of those are we went to the MLK we set up at some of the after

266
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,360
 school programs and attended some of their programs to talk to the people who attended

267
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:40,720
 those programs and we found that those two places specifically were that and Fredmore

268
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,920
 High School were the good locations for us.

269
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,400
 Thank you.

270
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,560
 I've just got a couple general questions before we go through these specific direction items

271
00:21:53,560 --> 00:22:01,880
 if you don't mind heard you mentioned parking in the context of an overlay and a live work

272
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:09,760
 slash this this type of area I'm not sure if that captures or defines for me what the

273
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:17,680
 concerns are right is it we're concerned about unmanaged street parking where people are

274
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,800
 are parking in front of driveways is it we're concerned that they won't provide enough off

275
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,080
 street parking that they're that will go one or two blocks away and use street parking

276
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:34,380
 there is it that hey if you provide as much parking as the code requires and we want a

277
00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:38,880
 restaurant there we can only have two restaurants and that the rest of the land will have to

278
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,360
 be turned into a parking with those parking minimums.

279
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:46,760
 It's a very large just saying parking to me doesn't give me a vision for what we're going

280
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:47,760
 for.

281
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,760
 Can you help.

282
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,760
 Yeah.

283
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:50,760
 Drive that.

284
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
 Yeah.

285
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,520
 And to be fair a lot of the feedback that we heard is a mix of those it's the you know

286
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,680
 I'm concerned about if we had additional businesses over here where are they going to park it's

287
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,240
 I am potentially wanting to start a business but the lots over there are small I'm not

288
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,740
 going to be able to meet the minimum parking so I think that would be one of the questions

289
00:23:05,740 --> 00:23:11,160
 that will specifically ask the property owners to kind of see have a better understanding

290
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,780
 of what their what their thoughts are on on that but what we are proposing is is somewhere

291
00:23:16,780 --> 00:23:24,820
 between trying to allow for smaller lots to develop those info lots to develop without

292
00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:28,440
 parking being the hindering for that but also trying to make sure that some of those more

293
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,700
 intense uses provide adequate parking so that people are parking in front of people's houses

294
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:39,440
 and stuff like that because the street character of this area is still pretty much residential

295
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,320
 and they just we want to be able to allow those sort of mixes to coexist.

296
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,320
 Okay.

297
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,920
 Thank you.

298
00:23:46,920 --> 00:24:03,280
 And then I guess a question in general with these different uses for instance we're calling

299
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:12,120
 it a live work overlay but my what the DDC allows in R7 is that with an SUP you can have

300
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:17,840
 small retail with no residential component on a lot for instance and so I'm trying to

301
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:28,400
 understand in the the vision of the future overlay with R7 base allowances with those

302
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,520
 be allowed with or without or only with or only without a residential component does

303
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,520
 that make sense?

304
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,640
 In this section the concept is to allow these non-residential land uses to sort of stand

305
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,840
 alone without that residential component and that is specifically for this section of East

306
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,800
 Prairie because of some of the challenges that we see with integrating them into same

307
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,720
 structure as well as like I said the existing conditions and development pattern that we

308
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:58,680
 see in that area it's more of a barrier I think to actually be able to implement the

309
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:05,720
 live work use on that street if you have to have that residential component if that makes

310
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,720
 sense.

311
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,600
 Yeah it does.

312
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:17,960
 If you could flip back to slide five just so I don't misspeak, it was like the second

313
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,760
 or third one, next one, there you go.

314
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:29,000
 So I saw the bullet here about building code and DDC requiring a lot of investment for

315
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,120
 older structures, understand that.

316
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:41,200
 Do we know where the language for the 2019 DDC for the live work definition came from

317
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:47,040
 requiring less than 50 percent of a residential component because and I'll tell you just so

318
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,160
 you know where I'm going with that is when I read the building code definitions under

319
00:25:51,160 --> 00:26:00,320
 IRC that created a special carve out and a way of making a building that's under the

320
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,780
 residential code but has some commercial component to it still being able to be financed and

321
00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:12,400
 lended to and insured through traditional means right is the inverse of that and so

322
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:18,320
 I've just always been confused why we chose that instead of the other right because if

323
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:24,440
 anything it would seem like this would be more intensive because you could build a 3,000

324
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:31,800
 square foot store with a 400 square foot apartment on back 50 percent right yeah yeah just so

325
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,280
 if you have any information on that or history or anything I'm looking to our person who

326
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:44,040
 was here we have that in our code I do not believe so I don't specifically recall anything

327
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,920
 on that we can certainly research it and see if we can find out for you but of all the

328
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,440
 topics that were heavily discussed during adoption of the code I don't recall that being

329
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,280
 one of them maybe a carryover from 2000 it is it is a similar definition from the the

330
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,300
 2002 code yeah oh okay I didn't realize it was carried over I thought that was a new

331
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:06,680
 thing that was added because it was adopted into the building code so that's that's good

332
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,600
 to know yeah okay okay now if you can thank you for doing that for my my behavior so now

333
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:21,320
 any other questions before we go through these four specific things Commissioner Padron yeah

334
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,360
 of the members of the community that you surveyed did any of them indicate that they wanted

335
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,320
 to bring these businesses like themselves like they're interested in developing these

336
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,800
 businesses or they were more interested in having these businesses established in the

337
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,920
 area yeah so a lot of what we've actually learned with and analyzing the live work use

338
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,760
 is that or is from a business that is trying a restaurant that is trying to locate within

339
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:51,560
 the area they want to be able to sort of exist as that standalone restaurant I think the

340
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,800
 community is called for it they have significant or mass significant support for it and we

341
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,080
 found that they want to go into a building that's not currently being used as a as a

342
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:07,480
 resident so it's more of a challenge to actually be able to do that and then I think this particular

343
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,680
 building they have to do some significant like fire suppression investment and stuff

344
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,980
 in their building that would just it would make that a challenge for them but we want

345
00:28:15,980 --> 00:28:20,480
 to see those vacant buildings be used and we know that there is someone that wants to

346
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,480
 use them so I think like I said a lot of what we've learned through trying to implement

347
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:32,400
 this have actually come from a user that that is ready to go on that one yeah commissioner

348
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:42,160
 riggs yeah I will say that I think this is great so I think definitely okay thank you

349
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,120
 yeah okay so I guess we can go through the the four specific questions here so the first

350
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:55,800
 one is do we concur with them looking at this northern prairie street section the the overlay

351
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:04,960
 section a in the backup first is there any concerns with that or or yes and happy to

352
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:16,320
 have any comments I'm not seeing any so I think we're all happy with that somebody speaks

353
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:25,780
 up second one is as far as the rezoning I believe the main rezoning would be the eastern

354
00:29:25,780 --> 00:29:30,840
 lots that front prairie street maybe r4 now and they would be moving to r7 is that correct

355
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,840
 correct yeah okay most of those are r7 there is an r4 and then there is a corner of of

356
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:46,240
 mn here that would be zoner seven okay any yeah commissioner dire well that negatively

357
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,960
 affect any of the current homes or businesses I mean I mean are they grandfathered into

358
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,600
 where they're at now but if something were to sell or a new business wants to come in

359
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,080
 that's when the new zoning would take effect is that how we're seeing this so the zoning

360
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,240
 would take it so it would follow a similar process we'd adopt a zoning this body would

361
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,640
 recommend and then council would would approve the overlay district the zoning would take

362
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,120
 into go into effect at that point the existing developments would be grandfathered in I will

363
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:21,180
 say that with most of them being r4 I could go back to see what which ones would be considered

364
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:25,960
 non-conforming but because r7 is actually a little bit more permissible than r4 and

365
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,520
 requires smaller setbacks smaller dimensions and stuff like that I don't anticipate that

366
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,040
 being the actual issue for so it's not going to be a negative for current homeowners or

367
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,440
 current business owners there the only I think the only property that would potentially be

368
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,120
 losing some land use permissions would be that mn property to the to the west but that

369
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:53,080
 is the currently an undeveloped property yeah I guess my question was going to center on

370
00:30:53,080 --> 00:31:00,720
 that western parcel I don't want to put words in staff's mouth because I understand we'll

371
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:07,080
 be coming back for the sub area B I also don't know what the map provisions going to look

372
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,880
 for from a or look like from a floodplain perspective I think most of the properties

373
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,400
 south of here have been in the floodplain that's main reason why they've been undeveloped

374
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:23,640
 but we've poured 20 million dollars into PEC 4 since then so maybe that changes a lot so

375
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:32,920
 my question I guess is with our existing requirement that uses take access through a property that's

376
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,580
 also zoned for that same use and the fact that the parcel south of that most western

377
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:44,640
 parcel is a fairly large for this area and then parcel would there be concerns that it

378
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:50,960
 would kind of lock that into unused land instead of somebody who would want a you know something

379
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:58,340
 that would fit you know it's not too far from rubber gloves etc yeah I think so there wouldn't

380
00:31:58,340 --> 00:32:03,400
 be a concern from says point of view because the future lay use designation in that area

381
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:11,260
 is moderate residential so if there is anything of either an increased sort of residential

382
00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:16,400
 or moderate residential density proposal that should be permitted through our seven additionally

383
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:27,040
 I think they would have let's see they should have access further south of here I need to

384
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,720
 pull that from from this part into this parcel yeah I think there's technically separate

385
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:40,740
 parcels now this top one versus this one yeah are these behind the those rectangular parcels

386
00:32:40,740 --> 00:32:49,840
 that front oh these star for yeah yes versus the mn trapezoid behind it right yes if I

387
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:56,040
 remember my geometry right my mom's gonna hate me I think you are correct yeah the future

388
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,360
 land use designation for the area is moderate residential and then we do as a part of our

389
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,480
 door knocking of course need to have that that conversation with I believe it's the

390
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,560
 same property owner that owns that mn property as well as those properties that are all for

391
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:16,180
 a budding skinner so deeper conversations will need to be had about the potential the

392
00:33:16,180 --> 00:33:19,840
 future developments for that area understood yeah and I think the city actually owns a

393
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,880
 couple of those lots as well the ones further south their floodplain okay floodplain lots

394
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:35,040
 yeah just because I don't remember all the wonderful words on your question slide okay

395
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:44,360
 so so thoughts or questions on giving direction to move forward with going between or moving

396
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:57,180
 from a base zoning of r4 on about half of those properties up to r7 so it's consistent

397
00:33:57,180 --> 00:34:03,760
 I guess we just have a an afternoon of people nodding so yeah and and I I think that's that's

398
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,280
 perfectly okay just let's stay sensitive as we have those door knocking conversations

399
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,680
 to see what because it because it kind of is you know it's it's a freight rail corridor

400
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:23,640
 but it's also within that now I'm not remembering the name of it there's a special district

401
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:32,160
 arts and creative stuff district that incorporates part of this area nobody's helping me out

402
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:41,320
 I'm sorry it was applied for probably right at the beginning of COVID something like that

403
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,760
 a Denton downtown Denton district I don't know it I'll look into it it was it was mostly

404
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:55,400
 a thing that we applied for in order to be able to get grant funding but it specifically

405
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:04,000
 focused funding opportunities toward specific artistic and and those sorts of endeavors

406
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,560
 and so because of that I'm just trying to imagine what we might want the that corridor

407
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:17,120
 with the freight rail to to become right I'll look into that a little bit more okay and

408
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:23,440
 then I've noted the the MN property looking second I guess number three do we concur with

409
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,280
 the proposed operational restrictions so you mentioned those a little bit I think they

410
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:37,160
 were in the AIS yes so it was primarily some hours of operation right yeah and and some

411
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,560
 noise level things those were the two that looked most different from what we typically

412
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:48,600
 what we typically see yeah is that a Ferris summary yes yes and those are specifically

413
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,900
 again some of the concerns that we typically hear with sort of non-residential being adjacent

414
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:59,520
 to residential are those those items so we're trying to make sure that we are addressing

415
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:07,240
 those for that sort of peaceful coexistence if that makes sense any thoughts or concerns

416
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:13,880
 about those I think just to make sure everybody understands the the hours of operation for

417
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:21,120
 the non-residential uses were proposed Monday through Thursday 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and Friday

418
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:31,920
 to Sunday 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. so okay Commissioner McDade what are the hours for the park the

419
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:38,960
 Fredmore Park down there is it 10 o'clock is the time closing 10 o'clock yes that sounds

420
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:53,000
 that sounds about right okay yes Commissioner McDowell I called you by your first name sorry

421
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:02,120
 chair I'm still learning that the thing that I remember most about working with this neighborhood

422
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:08,880
 of southeast it is the noise concerns so I'm glad to see those specified but we're talking

423
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:17,880
 about businesses and the trying and all other activities so I'm glad to see this delineated

424
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,820
 yeah we approach that wanting to be fair understanding that there are some industrial loud and louder

425
00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:29,720
 industrial uses as well as a train use in that area but trying to sort of minimize all

426
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:36,960
 of that in general for the sake of the residences and you know music studios and rubber gloves

427
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:44,320
 all of that too I understand so thank you for bringing that up sure any other thoughts

428
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:51,360
 from this one otherwise I'm assuming that we're all in favor okay sounds good and then

429
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,480
 last do we believe there are any items that have not been addressed consistent with the

430
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,400
 southeast and an area plan recommendations as it relates to the the new live work overlay

431
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:11,560
 district any thoughts hopes dreams Commissioner McDuff yes thank you for calling on me again

432
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:19,440
 I just and this may not be relevant here but the health and safety piece too can you address

433
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:27,380
 that and this might affect the safety issues from a like lighting or what do you what do

434
00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:37,440
 you mean yes regarding lighting is a good one to start any other specific topics that

435
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:44,360
 come to mind regarding health and safety well that's my main one I think and not to dwell

436
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:51,640
 on this but safety issues a police president presence perhaps if we're in there later on

437
00:38:51,640 --> 00:39:08,440
 in the till 10 o'clock anything else Commissioner McDate the neighborhood association they're

438
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:15,000
 setting up is it still setting up southeast in there are they still active we actually

439
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:27,000
 took our live work survey to them first back in there I believe it was there February yes

440
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:33,560
 their February meeting so we try to meet or attend their regular meetings pretty regularly

441
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:39,200
 and just give any updates and seek any feedback if we're looking for stuff like that yes they're

442
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:46,400
 very involved okay so I think continuing neighborhood meetings and getting their feedback even if

443
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,520
 all this passes and approve that there be continue to be meetings with the neighborhood

444
00:39:51,520 --> 00:40:01,160
 to see how things are going yes ma'am Commissioner Dyer so when you go to these meetings do you

445
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:10,040
 bring in other people from the city such as your economic development person people with

446
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:18,360
 like you know fair housing organizations like the chamber of commerce so that way because

447
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,040
 I noticed on one of the things you initially talked about was having the residents be the

448
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:31,880
 owners of these businesses that that was a component to all of this so making sure that

449
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:38,940
 the community is able to truly live and work and own and you know be a part of that community

450
00:40:38,940 --> 00:40:43,320
 where we're helping those become the business owners and become the homeowners especially

451
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,320
 if they're you know first time business owners or first time homeowners that they're finding

452
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:54,080
 out the resources that they can tap into to make those things happen are you guys doing

453
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,680
 that at these meetings so we partially so that that people based economic development

454
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,920
 survey that I mentioned we ran that through the southeastern neighborhood association as

455
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,720
 well as had an activity for that at the block party that sort of provided us with some feedback

456
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:11,880
 that we're actually launching with our community services department the workshops that we

457
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:24,520
 have plan in the fall that'll that'll that's a part of that and then Stoke we also offer

458
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:30,880
 we also have a implementation or action goal that would provide some financial assistance

459
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,600
 for people who are small business owners to be able to utilize the space that Stoke is

460
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:41,480
 a co-working space with with actually in the bounds of the southeast area plan that we're

461
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:47,800
 trying to sort of encourage southeast end residents and small business owners to utilize

462
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,880
 that space for their small businesses and support for that and I have Keisha our assistant

463
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:58,040
 planning director to provide a little bit more information on that yeah so what hi I'm

464
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,520
 Keisha seriano assistant planning director so we also last fall did some workshops in

465
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,960
 the community it was geared towards southeast I don't think we had many come but it was

466
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:16,560
 for small business one-on-one Stoke has financial assistance to provide opportunities for people

467
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,640
 to come and get space there and also mentoring and coaching so we just finished the flyer

468
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,600
 for that and we'll be getting that out in community we've already had some conversations

469
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,880
 we have an integral form on online and so that'll be opportunity that is what you just

470
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:39,080
 asked that is one of our concerns we've been trying to work on with community services

471
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,160
 and economic development to make sure on the community during the planning process they

472
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,040
 want these things to happen and we want to make sure we're providing opportunities for

473
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:51,560
 them to be able to partake in these economic efforts that we're trying to put together

474
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,720
 the people-based economics in the fall it was really really high on small business financial

475
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:03,480
 this financial management we found out that is a key component even learning how to manage

476
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,840
 your finances so even getting back to the basics so part of those classes in the fall

477
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,640
 will even be that just financial management in addition to homebuyer education as well

478
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:21,440
 thank you also I don't want to take all the credit for it but our community service or

479
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,400
 our code enforcement team and some of our police officers they do just independently

480
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,560
 of planning attend the southeast end neighborhood meetings every once in a while to provide

481
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:39,280
 updates and make sure that that they're connected to that community as well just a couple points

482
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:47,360
 I have on this last one of other items either in this area or the future two areas just

483
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:55,400
 as we look forward the I kind of mentioned that you know if there's a draft clomer or

484
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,640
 some sort of floodplain activity that's going on I think that would help inform especially

485
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:17,920
 area B and C the as you're drafting the conditional requirements the plus plus let's think through

486
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,600
 sort of what the street frontage is intended to be the thing I'm thinking in particular

487
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:29,380
 is that in the MN district we require parking to be in the rear of a property I don't believe

488
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:37,240
 we actually require that in our seven if it's a commercial use and and I don't think these

489
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:42,720
 neighbors really want an old house to get torn down and the front 150 feet of the lot

490
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:51,080
 to be a parking lot and and yeah just in general I think I would appreciate some more information

491
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:58,240
 maybe looking into that live work definition you mentioned that there had been difficulties

492
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:05,200
 using that classification in applications I think if we aligned the zoning code with

493
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:12,240
 the building code with the lending documents maybe it'd be easier to do you know maybe

494
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:16,800
 it doesn't affect this particular outlined area but there are some parcels nearby here

495
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:24,960
 that are r7 already that might be able to to take advantage of that as we have our discussions

496
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:33,520
 with the community too so any other thoughts commissioner mckay is this r7 overlay working

497
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,760
 somewhere else in the city already working this would actually be the first time that

498
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,680
 we've done something similar or similar to this wouldn't be the first overlay but this

499
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,240
 would be the first sort of I think overlay with the the effort of trying to have that

500
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:52,680
 mix of the live work component and I think there are I think r7 does exist as a base

501
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,680
 zoning and some of the other overlays but this would be the first of a live work type

502
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:07,000
 of overlay I'm sorry one more is it anything similar to the fry street area similar as

503
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:14,360
 far as it has design standards it has development additional development standards that would

504
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:20,180
 be fitting but overlays are supposed to be sort of unique to the area and the special

505
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:27,840
 goals and vision for that that area so we are sort of using the the format of an overlay

506
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,320
 that we've used across the city and has worked across the city for this area but I think

507
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,320
 the components specifically for this one will be will be somewhat unique that something

508
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:46,560
 that we haven't seen within the city before thank you I just want to reiterate Commissioner

509
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,920
 McDade from previous question of just that continued community engagement which I know

510
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,960
 that you mentioned at the very beginning and then also the first point says only as a first

511
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:01,000
 step as well so I do appreciate the continued engagement with the community I do think that

512
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,600
 sometimes it takes multiple efforts before you can build a relationship and build trust

513
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:11,160
 so I appreciate that and then additionally what Commissioner Dyer said as well about

514
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,480
 you know developing of the community as the individuals and not just the infrastructure

515
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,400
 that's there so I'm really appreciative of that but I'm gonna ask you if you can go to

516
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:30,600
 your slide that listed out the goals I know you said it very early there can you walk

517
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,960
 me through what the definition is for the city for the honor the culture and heritage

518
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:42,160
 what that looks like so that goal has a few different action items including I think one

519
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,280
 is creating a sort of cultural district that one's probably going to take I think the most

520
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:53,360
 hands-on feedback and work from the community it'll take a lot of sort of personal stories

521
00:47:53,360 --> 00:48:03,240
 and things of that have happened within that area but speaking to how that or how our the

522
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,320
 information that we're gathering for the live work overlay sort of feeds into that goal

523
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,480
 is specifically related to that historic business hub along East Prairie Street that the community

524
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:18,520
 remembers and would like to see reestablished there so it's not trying to draw that the

525
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,760
 specific action that we have just listed under one goal which is goal six actually helps

526
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:33,440
 us achieve several of these goals within the southeastern overlay thank you so commissioner

527
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,040
 Dyer I want to piggyback on that so when you talk about you know that's a great question

528
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,120
 about how what that actually looks like for the culture and heritage I know there's different

529
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:49,880
 like commissions and committees within the city and I believe there's one historical

530
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,480
 one correct yes would they be involved in something like this was with working with

531
00:48:54,480 --> 00:49:00,400
 the residents of this area to make sure that that's that's happening I think to a degree

532
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,960
 we are lucky to have our historic landmark or historic preservation officer here if she

533
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,160
 wants to add but I think to a degree if they to a degree I won't make it I won't put you

534
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,820
 on the spot but to a degree yes they they could and should be involved in that process

535
00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:20,440
 a little bit as far as providing some some feedback from a historic point of view to

536
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,920
 me it almost sounds like in achieving all those six goals and everything as you've walked

537
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:31,160
 through all this there's going to be a very like group effort from lots of different departments

538
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:37,060
 within the city different commissions and organizing you know and community organizations

539
00:49:37,060 --> 00:49:46,360
 to kind of come together and help you know lift this area up and you know do all you

540
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,000
 know do this overlay and get these businesses and residential areas in there absolutely

541
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:58,440
 yeah and if you're bored the southeast area plan matrix includes under each action and

542
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,760
 has a list of sort of outs either outside or internal organizations and boards that

543
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,000
 we would be working with to help us implement each of those actions and I think some of

544
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,080
 those is that that speak to the cultural heritage part is they're pretty comprehensive it's

545
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:21,360
 not just definitely not just just planning absolutely only other thing I thought about

546
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,040
 was and thank you for bringing us back to this goal slide I think it's it's really

547
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:32,520
 crucial that we keep focused on the main thing when we talk about the culture and the heritage

548
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:38,540
 of this area and and the older historical photos and the things that you talk about

549
00:50:38,540 --> 00:50:45,640
 it sounds like that the main thrust is to provide opportunities for businesses that

550
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:51,120
 are just getting started to kind of start having a physical place and grow from there

551
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:58,800
 is that a fair yeah okay absolutely I don't know the legality or specifics of how this

552
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:03,500
 would work but I will offer one suggestion that maybe if that's the goal that overlay

553
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:15,600
 could either set like maximum lot sizes or building scales or something because one future

554
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,160
 that I think would not necessarily honor that culture and heritage as we go through this

555
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:27,160
 effort to do the rezoning and apply the overlay and then one investor buys up all the lots

556
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:33,640
 and and creates one basically neighborhood strip mall right and I think that fine-grained

557
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:40,040
 kind of oh this is the barbershop this is the etc. is more what what the community is

558
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:51,280
 after so that's a good point all right thank you very much we're excited I think and we

559
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:59,800
 did the next step slide and yes that concludes my presentation thank you all thank you that

560
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:12,600
 will bring us to our second work session of the evening which is PZ 25 - 1 1 3 the discussion

561
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:23,240
 regarding plotting and and 100% of our agenda tonight is on plotting so this is very applicable

562
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:29,000
 good evening Aaron Stanley assistant planner so as we go through these boot camp presentations

563
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,160
 and for the newer commission members we we often do these boot camp presentations just

564
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:39,940
 to highlight certain topics that could be relevant to the board so this one tonight

565
00:52:39,940 --> 00:52:45,440
 will be over plotting before we get started I'll go over a quick agenda so first we will

566
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:51,600
 cover some background what is a plot parts of a plot why they even matter then we will

567
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:57,640
 get into the types of plots that we see in Denton some relevant state law and plot review

568
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:04,400
 considerations so the first question here is what is a plot a plot is a map that's prepared

569
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:09,960
 by a surveyor in Texas that identifies the boundary of a specific tract of land it looks

570
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:16,320
 very similar to a survey and it's created with a survey but it has some important differences

571
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,480
 the plot is a formal instrument of dedication of public land rights and restrictions and

572
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,080
 upon approval by the city and execution by the owner so once the owner has signed it

573
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,620
 it is filed with the county clerk for public record so this is the official document versus

574
00:53:30,620 --> 00:53:36,560
 the survey is just something that a private person would have it's not necessarily a formal

575
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:46,600
 public record document why are plots important so plot state back to earliest earliest civilizations

576
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:53,600
 in the US the law of the indies in 1573 was direction from the Spanish King on how to

577
00:53:53,600 --> 00:54:00,400
 essentially colonize the lands abroad so that laid out a lot of regulations on how you would

578
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:06,760
 divide up the land and give out the land and it's evolved over time you see in this Texas

579
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:15,440
 land grants from 1834 sort of an evolution of plots and drawing up land land documents

580
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:21,760
 and it's evolved to what we see today it plots give an accurate description of boundaries

581
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,160
 and ownership with a graphic illustration they show vital features on the property such

582
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,720
 as natural landmarks the boundaries any easements that are public or private they show land

583
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:38,360
 rights dedicated for public use such as a park or a utility easement a drainage easement

584
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:45,320
 access easements and they also provide a written description of meets and bounds based on natural

585
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:51,680
 landmarks or man-made placed stakes monuments iron rods so that you have that exact boundary

586
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,840
 of the property so this is an example of a plot and we'll go through some of the parts

587
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:03,920
 we have a vicinity map that shows where in the city it is plot notes that would highlight

588
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:11,180
 maintenance where you water and sewer would be would come from different notes their approval

589
00:55:11,180 --> 00:55:18,560
 block that the city would sign we have a map legend and then be in the middle we have the

590
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:24,120
 plot illustration that shows the outline of the property boundaries any lot lines there

591
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:29,960
 could be one just just one lot or there could be several right-of-way dedication easements

592
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:36,080
 labeling all the lots and blocks and dimensioning all of the property lines we have our legal

593
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:42,000
 meets and bounds description so the written version of what you see and the certification

594
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:48,400
 and dedication statement that the surveyor and the owners would sign and we have our

595
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:54,480
 title block with subdivision name size of the tract abstract survey and jurisdiction

596
00:55:54,480 --> 00:56:01,320
 so why would someone plat there's a few reasons so to subdivide the land identify and define

597
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:07,220
 lot boundaries dedicate public land rights you could adjust or abandon a public easement

598
00:56:07,220 --> 00:56:13,320
 building line or lot line if it's an existing plot create illegal lot of record to file

599
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:18,400
 obtain a building permit so many types of development would just require that it is

600
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:24,680
 plotted so you may need to plot for that purpose or to sell transfer or lease property and

601
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,700
 just to ensure compliance with the debt and development code and all other regulations

602
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:34,200
 that you have a developable lot often it's a combination of all of these so it's not

603
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:41,520
 just a single reason so what else requires plats so there is a state regulation that

604
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:47,200
 a plot is required from the owner who divides the tract of land in two or more parts two

605
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:53,640
 or more pieces to lay out a subdivision create lots or to get dedicate any property for public

606
00:56:53,640 --> 00:57:01,400
 use the state code the Texas local government code also states that a municipality may adopt

607
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,440
 their own rules governing plots and subdivisions which the debt and development code does for

608
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:14,600
 public safety and welfare so in the debt and development code we do call out that prior

609
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:19,440
 to subdivision re subdivision or development of land within the city of Denton limits or

610
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:27,560
 the E.T.J. one which you see here E.T.J. one is in blue plotting is required there are

611
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:33,280
 limited exceptions to when plots are required if you subdivide a parcel that results in

612
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,720
 an area greater than five acres and it's not intended to be developed maybe just to be

613
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:42,960
 sold off or you're just waiting for the future that does not have to be plotted any lot of

614
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:48,840
 record that was established prior to January 1st of 1960 is also exempt so if you're building

615
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:54,400
 on on a property that already had those lot lines before 1960 you don't have to go through

616
00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:01,000
 the formal planning minor additions or expansions construction of accessory fence extra accessory

617
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:06,720
 structures or fences would be exempt separate instrument dedications of easements or right

618
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:13,280
 of way cemeteries division of land by order of the court change of ownership through inheritance

619
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:19,600
 or probate of an estate single family construction in the E.T.J. and agricultural uses are also

620
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:28,400
 exempt so to get into some types of plots that we see preliminary plots are optional

621
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:33,300
 within city limits and prohibited in the E.T.J. because they're optional we don't see as many

622
00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:40,880
 of them this is submitted for the purpose of preliminary review it's not filed with

623
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:47,080
 the Denton county it is still approved by this body but it is sort of it it's preliminary

624
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,080
 so it it has a lot of the same things that a final plot would have but it's not they're

625
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:58,320
 not quite there we more so see them for sites that are large have multiple phases and to

626
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:03,440
 ensure that they have adequate access infrastructure that the water is going to get to the right

627
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,720
 places at the right time if it is a phase development over many years a lot of that

628
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:17,160
 criteria is the same that we see for final plots but it is more preliminary the final

629
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:22,560
 plot is the one that this body sees the most often so that delineates the exact boundaries

630
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:29,280
 of the property and the very detailed plot once it is approved by this body then it is

631
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:36,000
 forwarded on to be filed at the Denton county clerk's office and that criteria is basically

632
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:42,520
 that it conforms with if there is a preliminary plot that it would meet those substantially

633
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,960
 meet all requirements of the DDC if they do not meet something they would need that variance

634
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:56,200
 and apply it complies with all technical standards and specifications adopted by the city next

635
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:02,560
 we have final replat so of replat would be for a property that is already plotted but

636
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:07,240
 maybe they are combining some of the parts some of the lots or further subdividing the

637
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:13,120
 property replats must meet the same standards as a final plot however because you're changing

638
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:19,360
 some things redrawing lot lines which could often realign utilities realign access there's

639
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:25,600
 some special considerations such as making sure that it doesn't affect any recorded easement

640
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:31,200
 without the approval of that easement holder or limit the city's ability to provide adequate

641
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,680
 access or sufficient utilities doesn't cut off any easements and that also is reviewed

642
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:42,560
 by staff and then forwarded to this body for approval or denial and filed with the county

643
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:53,000
 clerk's office we also see a residential replat type so this is a special type of replat if

644
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:59,640
 there are state standards that do designate this as well so if a property was zoned or

645
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,560
 deed restricted to residential development of no more than two residential units per

646
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:11,920
 lot in the preceding five years they can still be replatted but it has a few more steps so

647
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:18,280
 both the development code and state law require that if a variance is needed for the replat

648
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:22,920
 then a public hearing is also required so prior to the plot coming for this body we

649
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:29,800
 would have to notice for a public hearing and have that public hearing before approval

650
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:36,360
 after whether it whether they have a variance or not after approval of any residential replat

651
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:41,680
 the city must provide written notice to the surrounding property owners otherwise it's

652
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:48,080
 the same as a replat same approval criteria and they would be also forwarded on to be

653
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:56,080
 recorded with the county we do have some administratively approved plot types a minor

654
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:04,120
 plot creates four or fewer lots if it fronts existing streets and no extension of utilities

655
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:11,640
 is required then that can be administratively approved we also have amending plots so if

656
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:16,640
 it's just there are state standards setting out what criteria this would meet but if they're

657
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:22,000
 just adjusting a lot line that doesn't affect anything else on the plot correcting an error

658
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,200
 those can be also administratively approved and then we have conveyance plots that would

659
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:32,800
 just be if your sole purpose is to sell the property you're not looking to dedicate extra

660
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:40,320
 things or develop get utilities really then you can have a conveyance plot these are staff

661
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:45,320
 approved but if we are recommending that denial that is the case that it would come before

662
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:54,240
 this body and then we have a couple of other types of plots that are very rarely used these

663
01:02:54,240 --> 01:03:00,640
 are treated a bit more like a site plan we don't see them often but when no other preliminary

664
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:07,360
 plot or final plot is required but the project does have still a need to show sort of a layout

665
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:12,960
 of what is on their property commonly seen with gas wells if it's larger than the whole

666
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:19,220
 lot necessarily then they will have a development plot these are not formally recorded with

667
01:03:19,220 --> 01:03:23,520
 denton county so if you're going through one of the things that does require a plot you

668
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,920
 still will need a finer final plot or a minor plot but this is just kept on hand for staff

669
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:38,600
 to review so approval criteria the state does set out some approval criteria we have very

670
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:45,200
 limited jurisdiction on denying plots if a plot conforms to the general plan for the

671
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:50,360
 municipality for all streets if they dedicated the proper amount of right of way and they

672
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:57,480
 met all of the the zoning district dimensional standards and any other rules that the city

673
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:05,320
 has has adopted the city has no discretion and must approve approve the plot if any of

674
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:12,160
 this for this criteria is not met then that is the case that we could deny.

675
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:19,000
 To go over a few recent bills that would be relevant to this body so the shot clock is

676
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:26,380
 very commonly referenced when we talk about plots in twenty nineteen this was passed so

677
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:31,480
 prior to twenty nineteen we still had a thirty day rule and we still had to provide comments

678
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:37,100
 to applicants within thirty days of receiving a plot but after september first of twenty

679
01:04:37,100 --> 01:04:43,480
 nineteen we have to act on a plot within thirty days so this means approve or deny or get

680
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:52,920
 an extension have them withdraw something formal so subsequent changes included transitioning

681
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:58,260
 to a very strict submittal schedule with dates to make sure that once they submitted there

682
01:04:58,260 --> 01:05:04,520
 is a PNC date within thirty days to make sure we don't go beyond this eliminated concurrent

683
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,360
 submittals for plot related applications reduced the review time just to make sure that we

684
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:15,560
 can get a plot on the agenda or prepare all the agenda materials and have time to send

685
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:21,840
 out comments and get it ready and provide code citations so that if we are recommending

686
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:28,640
 denial do we have specific reasons in the code that we can site and with the first shot

687
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:33,000
 clock bill in twenty nineteen applicants could request a one time extension up to thirty

688
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:40,520
 days after that few years later in september of twenty twenty three we had house bill thirty

689
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:46,520
 six ninety nine so this changed a few things from the original shot clock bill the thirty

690
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:53,480
 day approval window started on the day a complete submittal was made to the city city can also

691
01:05:53,480 --> 01:06:00,640
 not condition plot approval on completion of any study or similar requirement multiple

692
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:06,040
 thirty day extensions could also be requested and that the governing body or municipal planning

693
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,780
 commission may delegate staff the ability to approve approve with conditions or deny

694
01:06:10,780 --> 01:06:15,800
 a plot and this last one is not something the city and has adopted so we still bring

695
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,280
 to planning and zoning commission those final plots if we're recommending denial but that

696
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:26,280
 is something that could be used in the future and so subsequent changes to house bill thirty

697
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:31,600
 six ninety nine included that we can't request those studies for tree preservation plans

698
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:38,080
 downstream assessments traffic impact analysis yes a field assessments with the plot so what

699
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:42,480
 that means is we still review all those things they would most likely just come earlier in

700
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,960
 the process which is better we would review them with the site plan so with that zoning

701
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:53,960
 compliance plan or specific use permit before they get to the plot level plot stage and

702
01:06:53,960 --> 01:07:00,000
 you now see multiple thirty day extensions requested for many plots what some of these

703
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:05,520
 look like so whenever we bring plots before this body and our staff reports you often

704
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:12,400
 see some comments for things like minimize adverse environmental impacts this approval

705
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:17,480
 criteria would not always be applicable to plots now since we can't request those studies

706
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:24,120
 with the plot and those are still reviewed but not with the plot you see also comments

707
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:32,760
 for second extension third will note those in our presentations and our backup materials

708
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:38,760
 and then just to summarize so the plot review considerations we have all of those criteria

709
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,920
 for approval for each plot types most of the time when we're bringing plots before this

710
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:50,320
 body we are recommending approval if we can when there are deficiencies the most common

711
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:57,080
 ones we see are not providing sufficient information based on the checklist which is adopted that

712
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,760
 Denton development code gives authority to adopt the check checklist so these are things

713
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,720
 like just not providing enough information not labeling enough not providing those easement

714
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:13,960
 citations dedicating sufficient right of way or providing sufficient plot notes so who

715
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:19,200
 will maintain this easement who will maintain this open space lot or it does not meet the

716
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:24,000
 minimum requirements for subdivisions in the Denton development code so meeting those minimum

717
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:30,480
 lot dimensions flag lot maximum length those would be some of the reasons for recommending

718
01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:37,240
 denial and then this presentation will be shared so these are some helpful links that

719
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:44,220
 you could utilize and that staff utilizes when we review plots and that is my presentation

720
01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:56,160
 so I will stand for any questions the rousing subject of plotting anybody have any questions

721
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:04,120
 I have one just so that we're all aware it's my understanding that at least one form of

722
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:08,600
 the plot I'm not sure whether it's a just a final plot or whether it can also apply

723
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:18,960
 to a preliminary plot vests development rights by whatever code is enforced upon the acceptance

724
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:24,320
 of the plot for a certain period of time is that correct and if so is which which version

725
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:32,200
 of a plot does that Haley seems like she wants to answer so I'll take that one over hands

726
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,520
 so state statute it's chapter 245 of the local government code if you get bored and want

727
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:43,920
 to give it a quick read establishes that vesting is established for a project at the point

728
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,760
 where they've applied for their first application in a series of applications that is required

729
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,720
 for completion so most often in the city of Denton that's going to be the zoning compliance

730
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:58,640
 plan or the preliminary plot but you have it state statutes complicated but there there's

731
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:03,760
 a whole list of things that projects are allowed to vest and within the code such as zoning

732
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,760
 standards tree and landscape requirements things of that nature but that starts at the

733
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,560
 time they've applied for that first application in the series that it would take to get from

734
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:21,000
 like the concept or the napkin drawing to a building permit okay thank you I don't see

735
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:28,240
 any questions but thank you this is very thorough very important that we you know review the

736
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:34,240
 items on our agenda because there there are ever once in a while once in a blue moon somebody

737
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:39,600
 finds a typo or something so whenever you see something like that please just give give

738
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:44,600
 staff an email and they're usually very good at working with the applicant to get those

739
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:52,560
 things resolved even before the meeting without having to delay it any so all right thank

740
01:10:52,560 --> 01:11:00,920
 you I think that's the the last item on our work session today so we will go in recess

741
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:10,880
 before our our regular session at 630 we'll be back in council chambers thank you good

742
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:20,120
 evening at 6 36 p.m. on May 28th 2025 we will reconvene for our regular meeting with of

743
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,440
 the planning and zoning Commission the city of Denton Texas our first order of business

744
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:46,800
 is pledge allegiance to the US and Texas flag

745
01:11:46,800 --> 01:12:09,120
 our next item is item 2 a BZ 25008 consider approval of the April 23rd planning and zoning

746
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:21,280
 meeting minutes do I have a motion Commissioner Padrone move to approve any second yes a second

747
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:29,600
 from Commissioner Riggs and I'll just call out and we'll go down the line to vote so

748
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:51,160
 Commissioner McDuff Commissioner Riggs approved Commissioner McDade I will be yes approved

749
01:12:51,160 --> 01:13:00,880
 Commissioner Padrone approved and Commissioner Dyer approved thank you so that that passes

750
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:12,120
 five zero with one abstention that brings us to our consent agenda item 3 a FP 25 0016

751
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:24,640
 for a final plot for the landmark or amenity center it is recommended approval any questions

752
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:35,680
 or a motion Commissioner Riggs I'll make a motion to approve any second I will second

753
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:46,200
 thank you Commissioner Dyer and we'll go down the line as well Commissioner McDuff approved

754
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:55,960
 Commissioner Riggs approved Commissioner McDade approved Commissioner Padrone approved Commissioner

755
01:13:55,960 --> 01:14:02,280
 Dyer approved and I will be an aye as well that item passes six zero that brings us to

756
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:09,640
 our planning and zoning Commission project matrix any updates from staff yes you should

757
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,800
 notice some of the longer standing items on your matrix we have assigned tentative dates

758
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:19,920
 for when we'll bring work sessions forward on a handful of those later this summer early

759
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:28,360
 fall with respect to action that council has taken on items that came before this board

760
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:34,880
 we did have two meetings in May so a handful of items sought or saw final action at council

761
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:40,800
 the rezoning at Teasley in Hunters Creek for the fire station was approved by council similarly

762
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:45,360
 the rezoning of our art R7 on Parker's page for the property that was trying to address

763
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:50,560
 some non-conformities was also approved as well as finally our commercial animal services

764
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,760
 code amendments that came before this body a couple of times did get approved by council

765
01:14:54,760 --> 01:15:05,240
 as well and those are the only updates I have thank you any anything to add to the matrix

766
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:13,200
 or questions commissioner Dyer do we have an update on the 195 project yes that will

767
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:19,880
 be going to council next week for consideration do they still have to have a super majority

768
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:24,740
 to pass that correct on two accounts because of this body's recommendation as well as the

769
01:15:24,740 --> 01:15:33,040
 percent opposition from the neighboring properties okay any other requests for the matrix or

770
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:44,840
 anything seeing none that brings us to concluding items any concluding items thank you chair

771
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:52,840
 I would just like to welcome our summer legal intern Sam Markram he's been an awesome contribution

772
01:15:52,840 --> 01:16:00,260
 to the department already and so I just wanted to shout him out and say thank you and welcome

773
01:16:00,260 --> 01:16:07,180
 thank you we'll do our best to make you have a good experience and and with that welcome

774
01:16:07,180 --> 01:16:11,800
 I'd also like to welcome Commissioner McDade and Commissioner McDuff thank you for joining

775
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:21,400
 us I think we're eager to to be mostly fully staffed again so that we can make some progress

776
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:26,200
 little by little and then eventually you see see a lot of changes and for the positive

777
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:35,980
 so one thing I have is there is a runoff election in district three because of the nobody achieved

778
01:16:35,980 --> 01:16:40,600
 over 50 percent of the votes in the first May election day so that election day is June

779
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:47,560
 seventh and early voting continues is ongoing now through next Tuesday so please participate

780
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,200
 if you're in district three and if you're seeing this you're probably engaged enough

781
01:16:52,200 --> 01:17:00,560
 to know if you are any other concluding items seeing none we will adjourn this meeting at

782
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:01,840
 six forty one p.m. thank you