Hello and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission
meeting for Wednesday October 2nd 2019. This is our work session and with the
quorum present I will call us to order at 532. Before our work session
presentation we'll move down to clarification of agenda items. I will
say for the record that Chair Rozelle and Commissioner Pernetta are absent at
this time from the meeting. We only have a consent agenda today. Our public
hearing item 4 has been removed and will be rescheduled for a future meeting. So
with that being said, do we have anything for the consent agenda? Any
questions? Okay, I have one and it's really just for my own notification and
Haley I think it might be yours it's it's for our first one. It's the walker
track down. I just had a question regarding that temporary excess
easement. Through this commercial portion? Yeah so that so it said the
temporary easement will be there until finish out till build out. Is that build
out of of just the residential part or the entire thing and how does that
actually work? I believe their intent is just for construction of the residential
portion. They're thinking the commercial tract at this point would be several
years down the road probably okay but that will will go away once the
commercial and then where is access from that point going to be? So so that's
going away and then access is going to be around and down or will that be for the
subdivision or? Yeah well they would have access off of Giesling and Blag. And
that's it okay so okay all right very good thank you. You're welcome.
Anybody else? Okay then let's move to Julie's presentation. All right I'm Julie
Wyatt senior planner with the City of Denton and we continue our Planning and
Zoning Commission boot camp series with the second part and that is
comprehensive planning. Some of you have been on P&Z for a while may have may
have heard most of this but it's always a good refresher to talk about
comprehensive planning and I know we have some new ones on the Commission so
this would be a good introduction to the comp plan. So today we're going to first
talk about the Texas Local Government Code and how that relates to
comprehensive planning. We'll go into just what is a comprehensive plan. Talk
about a brief history of comprehensive planning in the City of Denton and then
we'll get to our current comprehensive plan 2030 and then how that relates to
our Denton Development Code. So first the Texas Local Government Code and
comprehensive planning. The the chapter 2 1 3 outlines what the regulations are
for municipal comprehensive plans. The intent is to promote the public health
safety and welfare. Municipality does not have to adopt a comprehensive plan but
they can as part of their planning effort and it's not the the content
isn't prescribed within the Texas Local Government Code but it can include
several provisions things like land use, transportation, public facilities. It can
be organized however that that that municipality sees fit and it's used to
coordinate and guide our regulations and then the municipality can define
that relationship between the comprehensive plan and the development
regulations. I've got some asterisks there because we're gonna be talking
about that later in the presentation how we how we deal with that within the
City of Denton. So what broadly what is a comprehensive plan? Well the 1909 plan
of Chicago was really kind of that first comprehensive plan that was done in the
United States and here's one of the maps associated with that. This just looked at
the parks and the thoroughfares. So that's kind of how it all started the
comprehensive planning in the United States. Generally it's it's a guide for
the development of the community. It kind of sets forth what the community's
vision is, where a community is today, and then where they want to go. So that's
really what broadly what a comprehensive plan is. The Texas APA and that's
American Planning Association goes a little further and gets a little more
specific about what the purpose is. First to improve the the physical
environment of the community, to promote the public interest, to facilitate the
democratic determination and implementation of community policies, to
affect political and technical coordination of development. Number five
is my favorite, to inject long-range considerations into the determination of
short-range actions. So it provides that that broad policy and then how that
relates to the projects that you see every other week. And then to bring
professional and technical knowledge to bear in the making of political
decisions. What is typically included in a comprehensive plan? Generally the start
of it is the vision statement. Where do we see ourselves and how do we
see ourselves and where do we want to go? It also includes a lot of research and
analysis and that can vary depending on the plan, but I'm generally it's
who lives here? What kind of housing we have? What kind of densities do we have?
What kind of you know are they are they multifamily? Are they apartments? Are they
houses? What is the makeup of our housing stock? How do we think
we're gonna grow? How big are we gonna get and where do we think the growth is
gonna go? Environmental analysis. What kind of trees do we have? Where are
environmentally sensitive areas? Public facilities and infrastructure. Do we have
enough roads and schools and water capacity? Land use capacity. How much
undeveloped land do we have and how do we foresee it growing? Community character
analysis. That's kind of the intangibles. You know the things that make Denton
Denton and Denton unique. And then a fiscal analysis. What are the
implications of any growth? Next we have goals, objectives, and policies. Those are
generally in all comprehensive plans. Those are general terms. We actually use
different terms in the city of Denton so but but they're they're they're kind of
always those those three things. The goals that desired in-state. The
objectives. Those benchmarks. How do we know we're getting there? And then those
policies. What are those actions that we do to achieve those goals? Maps. Maps. We're
planners. So maps are always involved. And then implementation and monitoring.
How how how is that all how is that plan then then put into practice? Other
facts to consider. Excuse me Julie. Commissioner Smith. Thank you. So when you
go back go back one slide. When you say goals, objectives, and policies you said
that we use different terms. Yes. What terms do we? We'll go over those in just a
little bit. I know. I know. I promise. You know I'll point it out when we get
there. So so comprehensive plans are a policy document. So they are different
than the zoning code. That is the overarching policy. The Denton
Development Code are actually those regulations that we then enforce.
There's typically a 20 year horizon. So so you're kind of looking 20 years out
into the future. But it should be updated every five years. So things change on the
ground. And so they really should be updated to make sure you've got the most
current information possible. So a brief history of comprehensive planning in
Denton. This is fun. So we've had one two three four comprehensive plans for the
city of Denton. It started in 1960. Then it went to 74, 1999, and then 2030. I'm
sorry. Well the 2030 was in 2015. So so this is one of my favorite quotes. This
is from the 1960 land use plan. And it says if some method of measuring in a
intellectual level of a city were known, Denton would be listed among the leaders
of the nation. So that was that was a quote from our 1960 plan. And here is a
map from that. So you can kind of see you know Denton was much smaller then. They
did have the the outer loop here. And it wasn't probably much of it built. And
we're still we still haven't built the western portion. And you could see that
they had nodes of activity that they were anticipating as as the city grew.
And then there they had a thoroughfare for a thoroughfare plan associated with
it. As I said you've got that outer loop. Here's the loop 288 we all know and
love. And then there was also they had an inner loop that they were proposing at
that time. And I was trying to figure out where that was but I really haven't
discerned exactly where that inner loop was proposed. And the 35 W in 1960 was
not constructed. So it was just a just a plan at that time. They also had a
downtown plan in 1960. So they were proposing a one-way traffic loop around
downtown in this area that's green. And that was to be for pedestrians and slow
moving vehicles. They were also proposing as part of that plan a facelift to the
architecture. So those those those kind of flat facades that you see on on our
buildings downtown that was they were they were wanting the downtown buildings
to actually put those in those modern facelifts. Now we're kind of taking them
down and going back to that historical architecture. But by that time that was
the latest and greatest thing. And they thought it would be more appealing to
shoppers and attractive. And then city hall offices city offices didn't have air
conditioning. So that was one of the actions that they proposed is to get air
conditioning in in our city offices. So we're glad they did that. Then plan from
1999 this was the 1999 to 2020. It was adopted in 99 and it was the basis for
the development code we just we just went past. So that was the basis for the the
2002 Denton Development Code. And there was also a citywide rezoning associated
with that. The land use focused on reducing sprawl, protecting neighborhoods,
mixing uses and appropriate development scale. And here is that future land use
map associated with that. That yellow was that protecting existing neighborhoods
future land use. And that gets us to our current comprehensive plan Denton Plan
2030. So at a glance it was initiated in 2012 as an update to that 1999 plan. So
if I've said earlier that the the plan should be updated every five years if
you do the math. Didn't quite meet that goal but we're but we're we're moving
forward and we're gonna we're gonna keep that goal as we move forward. It was
developed in five phases and there was significant community involvement with
all five phases. It was adopted in February of 2015 so it took it took quite
a while to get it get all through that community input and drafting that plan.
And and just as an aside it projected that Denton population would increase to
207,000 by 2030. So the anticipation is that this city is gonna be a lot bigger
by the by the end. So wanted to go over how to read the plan. First of all let me
ask does everyone have a comprehensive plan? A physical do you have you have one?
You okay all right all right you've got one so we need to get one for you sir it
sounds like. So it looks like this if you if you don't have it and maybe you're
not a paper person. If you're not a paper person it's actually digitally
online. You can get through it through our website. So the whole thing you can
download the PDF and and and read it online. So but if you don't if you don't
know where to get it we can we can we can point you in the right spot. So how
to read the plan. First you know we talked about what the parts of the plan
on our vision statement is on pages 14 and 15. It's a rather large vision
statement. It spans two pages and it goes through all of the you know how we see
ourselves and where we see ourselves going. It also has ten elements in the
plan. Elements are just another word for chapter. So and each each element has a
different talks to a different aspect of how we want our city to grow. So we first
talk about the plan framework. We go over land use, fiscal and economic vitality,
community character, and urban design. We have a parks chapter, a mobility chapter,
housing and neighborhoods, community health, safety and services,
infrastructure and utilities, and then at the end we have the implementation and
monitoring. So each of those elements contains research and analysis
associated with that element as well as goals, policies, and actions. So before we
talked about goals, objectives, and policies, and the way we define those
terms are goals, policies, and actions. So and then it has maps of course. We have
a growth map, existing land use maps, our existing land uses. We have a future land
use map, focus areas, and then also our primarily sensitive areas. So here is
here is our vision statement and it's organized around four strategic
directions based upon that citizen consensus. First of all the character of
Denton, our people, institutions, and government, the strength of our economy,
and then sound growth. So those are those four organizing principles. And then here
is just a page out of element two, so chapter two, which is our land use
element. So up at the top you could see it says it's a land use element. Each
chapter also pulls out parts of the vision that are related to that chapter.
So here are the here's the vision statement that relates to land use. We
also have research and analysis. So embedded within each element are things
like tables, or graphics, or also lots of research within the text of the document
so you can go through and sort of figure out how they arrived at the conclusions.
We have goals in the in the blue boxes. We have our land use or goals in the land
use chapter, then the land use goals. Those set a general direction. They're our
ideal future and those are supposed to be our long-range vision of what
we want of what we want our city to be. Then we have our policies. Those are
getting a little more specific. They're those specific statements that guide the
decision makers. They're the commitment to a particular course of action. They
also describe context and maybe the rationale of the desired outcome. And then
finally more specific than that we have our actions how we're going to implement
those goals and those will carry out those policies. They're supposed to be
very specific. And then as part of one of our maps that the big map that we look
at all the time is our future land use map. I know on P&Z you see this every
every time. This was developed from not only public input but there were also
other variables and an assessment that went into that. First of all we looked at
existing conditions so what's on the ground today. We had alternative growth
scenarios so as part of the community input the citizens actually looked at
different maps and how they they wanted the city to grow. And so those those
alternative growth scenarios one was kind of more sprawled out. One was more
compact. One was more based upon centers and and and in districts within the city.
And so we we had that that outreach to see how the community wanted to grow. We
looked at capacity studies. How many houses we could support? How many
businesses? Community priorities. Things like do we want walkability? Do we want
more mix of uses? Our community character and then also a fiscal and impact
analysis and and you know that compact growth would be a more sound fiscal
analysis because there's fewer roads to maintain. Police and fire don't have to
go as far to to go out on calls. Other items to keep in mind when you're
reading and working with a comprehensive plan. It is comprehensive. It is very
easy to get tunnel vision just on the future land use map that that's all we
look at. And although that is a foundational map and and exhibit within
the the plan there is a lot of other information in the plan particularly with
goals and policies that we need to look at when we're analyzing cases. Those give
you that context and what we meant when we created that map. So that's that's why
those the words are important it just like the map is. Commissioner Smith.
Thank you Vice Chair. Julie whenever we wrote down what you're talking about and
this is a good time to interrupt to talk about it I guess but seems like in the
past couple years we've seen a good amount of projects not all of them not
even more than half I would bet but we see we see a good amount of projects
that are coming in and staff recommendations coming and saying we
recommend it it is against the it's against the flim but we're recommending
for it so were you here before 2015 how many of you at the city? 2013. On the on
the old 2002 comprehensive plan did we set as to the 99 comprehensive plan did
we see a lot of those counter recommendations against the flim at the
time? Do you ever seen that as a planner? I'm not sure if the city had that kind
of analysis at that time often but the 2002 plan did have a provision that if
that if that rezoning case or specific use permit was not consistent with the
future land use map there was that additional analysis you went through.
Further the 2002 code allowed comprehensive plan amendments so often
they would go through comprehensive plan amendments to amend that future land
use map before that zoning case went went ahead and you your your questions
are are predicting my my presentation because we're actually going to talk
about that because that is something that save up my questions for you know
because that is something that we're actually going to be talking about and
you're going to be seeing more it's within our 2019 code we have some really
specific processes that go with future land use or comprehensive plan
amendments and it's going to be something that you're going to need to
get familiar with so it was a really great question because it's it's coming.
I'll stop interrupting. No you're good. Comprehensive and and and this speaks to
that as well because comprehensive planning is as much a process as it is a
product so yes we have this this great document at the end but it is also that
process of us defining who we are and where we want to go and and that process
extends to not only the adoption of that that original comprehensive plan but then
it is a living document how does it change over time how do those
amendments change over time and why do they change over time so so if for
instance you know we've had some recent rezoning cases that have that will
result in a population increase for our city and it's going to increase in
places that that weren't anticipated in 2012 and so how do we address that how
how going forward are we going to to incorporate that not only in our
planning documents been in our day-to-day activities so so that's what
we're going to be working through together Texas local Texas local
government code chapter 211 does say that zoning regulations must be adopted
in accordance with that comprehensive plan so so the comp so the
comprehensive plan and our zoning regulation really do relate to each
other and they should we just want to make sure we look at the comprehensive
plan as a document as a whole and not just one specific part of it so now
we're getting to the 2019 code and what the regulations are going forward and
and what kinds of projects you're going to see so DDC section 2.4.5 e3 includes
the general regulations for or the general criteria for approval for all
projects and one of those is consistency with the comprehensive plan and other
applicable plans and this is that those general broad that goes over all
projects first do proposed developments are they consistent with the
comprehensive plan and that decision-makers must weigh competing plan
goals policies and strategies so you're will be looking at everything with the
comprehensive plan and then and the last point is an application which does not
match the future land use map may be approved if it furthers the overall
goals of that comprehensive plan and so that's where that that that flexibility
comes in that that leeway if it doesn't meet the future land use map but it is
consistent with those overall goals as as the land use analysis shows and then
we even go further so there is a provision within the 2019 code to amend
the comprehensive plan this is established to provide that flexibility
in response to changing circumstances and and it kind of gives two broad
categories for that so our comprehensive plan was it was begun in 2012 and it was
adopted in 2015 and a lot it's it's 2019 it's almost 2020 and a lot's changed not
only not only broadly in the city that we have a lot more people who live here
a lot of a lot of new businesses a lot of new employers but parts of the city
have grown that we didn't anticipate in 2012 we kind of thought the north part
of town wasn't going to grow for for a really long time and and and because of
those development pressures the the north part of town has grown a lot and
is continuing to see that development pressure so so when we do those
comprehensive plan amendments we're looking at was an error made in the in
the original findings with the adoption or probably what we'll see more often is
have events or trends changed since that last adoption and that's where our
analysis will come in any amendments must be consistent with those overall
goals and policies it has to provide a benefit to the city not just that
individual property owner but it needs to provide a benefit as a whole and is
it compatible with the surrounding land use goals also amendments to the future
land use map cannot adversely impact in public services in the environment land
use or traffic so so we it really should be a comprehensive review of that of
that request if someone's coming in for a comprehensive plan amendment did that
answer your question on how we're gonna see it go forward okay all right and
then but but further we are it's it's been five years next year will be five
years since the adoption of Denton plan 2030 so guess what it's time to update
it so as part of the 2019-2020 fiscal year budget $95,000 was approved in
order to start the that in order to accommodate for that update and our the
RFQ process is beginning there's actually a an internal group that's
that's looking at that now and that's going to take place over the next two
months beginning next year City Council will approve the consultant that's that's
that's found during that RFQ process and then in the first quarter of next year
we're looking at beginning that plan update we're gonna start with an
assessment of the implementation so how what's a how have we implemented it what
do we need to do to continue to implement it and then those existing
conditions what has changed in the city how are the how the facts on the ground
changed Richard and I were talking earlier that when when didn't plan 2030
was begun we were you know the world was a little different 2008 had just kind of
happened we were still and kind of coming out of that 2008 and so economic
conditions housing conditions a lot has changed since then we want to make sure
we capture all that so that's what's gonna start next year you're probably
gonna see a lot of it come before you a lot of talk about that so so more to
follow Julie what is the process for approving an a plan amendment it goes
through the public hearing process so it really kind of follows that zoning
process you're familiar with it would go go to P&Z for recommendation and then to
council for approval it's approved by ordinance and we're also I don't know if
you're aware we're updating our mobility a mobility plan right now and it's not
just cars it's also bike and pet so it's really they're looking at it
comprehensive another thing they're also looking at is safe routes to schools so
they're really trying to look at how our citizens move through our city they're
expecting a draft report to be complete by the end of the year with a target
adoption of April 2020 and then there is I don't know they have a website and
there's a survey so you should go take the survey so you just let me see let me
click on it see what happens all right didn't work but you can go to this you
can go to the city's website and I think I just googled city of Denton mobility
plan update and I found it but there is an online survey they're doing public
outreach here you go and and they also have maps associated with it so you can
go kind of play around with this and and take a look at what our engineering
folks are doing we also talked to him today and we're looking to see if they
could come do a work session with y'all to really dive into the details about
the mobility plan and how that's moving forward and what they're going to be
addressing so that that will be coming for you in a work session and the
future projects so didn't plan 2030 talks a lot about small area plans there
are two areas they really talk about most and that is the downtown area and
also those neighborhood University compatibility areas there was one plan
small area plan adopted earlier this year there was that oak gateway plan and
that's for the areas around UNT but we have other small area plans that we
definitely will be moving forward with or and looking at the purpose of these
so we have the the overarching comp plan which is the 30,000 foot view of the
city the small area plans really are more localized there to look at local
challenges and opportunities to provide local input for those residents and
stakeholders that that are really that live and in that in those smaller areas
and or work there or travel through there and then create support for those
plans so it's really kind of also a public outreach about continuing
defining our vision and how our city wants to grow so I mentioned the
downtown area is a small area plan and then those neighborhood University
compatibility areas the dent plan 2030 also talks about looking at centers
corridors and other focus areas think maybe some of those corridors that are
gateways to our city like places like Dallas University corridor you know
those areas those are those are types of places that you see small area plans and
then the dent plan 2030 also goes over the guidelines for the process the
things we actually look at that process for how you go through a small area plan
so so those will also be forthcoming as we're as we're moving forward and
continuing to to work on our vision and make sure that our city is growing
in accordance with plan 23 and that's all I have
Commissioner Smith. Thank you Vice Chair. So whatever the adjustments I think I
think Vice Chair Margie asked it but on the on the amendments to the flume
that's still a PNZ process PNZ to City Council process that's all the plan
amendments but I know if the the flume amendments are the same way as well yes
sir it's part of it so who who initiates as a city initiated before a
zoning case has it kicked off by one project bringing something in like I'm
thinking like agave ranch up there that would have been kind of a that was that
was the most notable one I think off top the head that we had that was very
counter to what the future land use map was saying and so does that one project
kick off possibly okay and who initiates it city developer either so
a developer could come forward with a future land use Richard may want to weigh
in here future lay so a developer could come if they've got a really
comprehensively planned project they may come in with a comprehensive plan
amendment for that map or it could be city initiated depending on especially
that update that we're going to be going forward with and I'll let Richard wait
yeah the other thing I also would add is as we start to look at these a little
bit more critically you know it's one thing where it's residential and it's
it's maybe a residential land use but not the right density I think part of it
even to the north area I mean we kind of looked at those areas is almost a
reserve area than really a true rural area and so I think that'll be one of
the biggest policy discussions as we update our new plan we're working with
an applicant now that's looking at a large tract that's going to have
multiple multiple districts one to be quite honest is has more of an
industrial land use they want to go with more of a community mixed use
commercial land use or I'm sorry zoning that's something that we have we told
them we would we could not support unless you updated the comp plan and so
that's one where if there's at least some some connectivity if you will to
where the zoning and land use that somewhat relate it's you can kind of
look at some of those I think the guidance is there to look beyond and look
at some of some of the other policies but when it's industrial to residential
there's no there's no relationship there really so you are gonna be looking for
that relationship piece I just I think I asked the question one I think it's good
that we're giving flexibility to the plan but I don't want to lose the
integrity of it as well where anytime we have anybody who comes in and wants to
rezone and says hey you know this isn't really fit it's rural but you know it's
not rural use anymore you should put a much put a housing development here okay
can't just start bending to everybody's will because it won't start having a
hodgepodge patch work of future land use changes and so so you're gonna be
looking at it is it is it related is it is it at least somewhat close to it
where if it's gonna go from you know we were talking about low low low density
residential to moderate density residential or high that moderate to
high or something like that okay we can work within that or you know high
density residential to community mixed use okay close so that's that's kind of
the guiding line there correct correct I think as we look at and just even as
some of our corridors have developed sort of what's on the ground now so we
have some some areas particularly sort of in the eastern eastern side of the
city where we have these pockets of industrial areas some have developed
some haven't and when you really look at how the neighborhoods have built around
it is it really appropriate to have those industrial areas right in the
middle of residential neighborhoods or should it still maintain sort of where
we have our industrial area out west and so it's just starting to look at how
we've developed some of those to be quite honest those patterns have carried
over from the 1960s and so everything has developed around it so now it's
just really taking that critical look at and saying is this is this really still
what's intended and now we have these vacant industrial parcels in the middle
is this what we want to is this what we want to see or does it make sense to
sure and so rather than just kind of go outside the bounds a little bit this is
I think the first time that I've seen even just going back hey when have we
ever done a comp plan map amendment that wasn't a city initiated one I don't
necessarily know it's been a long time and so this will be one of those first
ones I think that at least this commission probably will see or have
seen the small area plan is it going to supersede the flume does it is it in
conjunction with the flume how does it how does that work in conjunction it
should and a lot of those small area plans and in the dent plan 2030 has some
future land use designations like our downtown compatibility area or the
neighborhood University compatibility areas where there's there's some there's
a lot of flexibility within that so that's where we really want those small
area plans so we can get we can get a little more granular in what those
specific areas need and it really should further inform that comprehensive plan
the way it was by the way I read it just may seem like it was superseding for
some reason but that's not the way I read the Oakmont or the Oakmont the
gateway area when we approved back in February but okay thank you anybody else
any questions Commissioner for now those when we're actually making decisions
because in a lot of ways they feel like nice suggestions and not to demean any
anything but do you know what I'm saying you know like when we're just when they're
bought before us and their suggestions on what we'd like to see happen how much
are we considering that is being codified as opposed to being an ideal
well they are policy documents but they're policy documents that should be
referenced and and a basis for our analysis when we have a case coming
before us so and our 2019 code really goes further than the 2002 code and that
it does it not only talks about those that is a is a is a proposal consistent
with the with the comprehensive plan but is it also consistent with other plans
associated with that area and so we're going to be not only looking at the
comprehensive plan when we analyze projects as we're implementing the 2019
code but we're going to be also factoring any small area plans that are
associated with with that with that site so yeah it's it's it's it's it's a lot
more prominent in that 2019 code mr. Smith thank you faster this is
actually a question Julia rich cancer but we're talking about the comp plan
amendments and we're seeing those little tops of pockets of industrial
surrounded by residential or something like that I don't think anybody in the
residential is really gonna have an issue with seeing industrial being
changed on the plan the plan and that will kick off a zoning it changes well
correct or how does that how does that work how does zoning tied to land use
mapping correct so they'll be so really we're looking at it in a way of prior
to even getting this and we may run them most likely concurrently but for the
most part in order to get that at least our our recommendation of approval you
would have to have that your your zoning consistent with with that future land
use element and that would all be brought together so you see that the
whole picture I'm betting that it's gonna be more of the industrials to
residentials and a lot less of the industrials to correct correct I think
and most of it is gonna occur along some of our corridors I think if you just
look at what's happening with the May Hill Road expansion and just how that
area has grown sort of west of there from between the loop and and May Hill
and that whole area is really transitioning a number of different ways
and it's just really taking a hard look at that but as as humbled rather than
doing it in these small peaceful fashions they're starting to acquire
large large large tracts of land and really looking at more of a
comprehensive development which quite honestly I think is a better probably a
better approach to it but then allows us to really look at you know now we're
gonna have a six lane arterial running through there yeah yeah it might not
make sense for single-family but then do we also want more heavy trucks and
industrial or does it make sense to be more of a commercial office I'm just
envisioning some of the headaches that came along the citywide rezoning and
having to come back you know us us city initiating you know future land use and
then kicking off zoning changes and then they're all back to square one of we're
changing entire areas and we're gonna have neighbors and folks coming out and
talking about it before downs only I don't think we're having anybody get
mad about the industrial man turned into residential land unless they were sold a
house saying that this is always gonna be a park when it's been zoned heavy
industrial for forever and they can ever build a home development but now they
can so just commissioner back yeah I'm not sure who to direct this to but you
mentioned the granularity of when you were discussing the flume and the plan
and this sort of subtopic has come up a little bit when you're doing these
audits is there a stated policy to reduce the granularity maintain the
variability is whereas it just vary across the landscape of Denton as it
were because when we're talking about down and up zoning you're really often
talking about reducing the variability of the various plans and zones to two
more common features and you're you've got mixed right now and then you're
going to go to all residential as as the plan adopts it so is that a guiding
policy that you want to have more of a mixed environment or have less of a
mixed environment or there is no there's no bias towards one or the other it
really depends and I think when you when you look at at the at the at the
comprehensive plan of the future land use element it is this very broad broad
document and so you may have commercial or regional mixed use and it provides
those guiding overall policies for various different parts of the city and
I think where the where the small area plans come into play is for those those
areas that are unique where where it's it needs to be a little bit of a deeper
dive that's where then then that's where that kind of comes in and then further
supplements those those guiding policies for that for that for that area within
that that category if you will from there the the the land development
regulations then are then developed which really get into that really really
granular level in some instances it's a straight zoning others it's a PD where
it's very very specific to that parcel in that parcel only if that helps I think
it's fair to say and Richard correct me if you think I'm wrong but I think that
when you talk about the future land use map that's something that is
irrefutably valid if the future land use map supports a rezoning it's it's just
beyond question that that's that that is a valid rezoning decision to make it I
think that you look into some of the other areas to help supplement that as
Richard said to to look and see if if if perhaps it wasn't something that was
anticipated by the future land use map are there other is there other evidence
to support that that growth was anticipated in some other way does it
solve some other goals for the area that maybe we're not anticipated by the
future land use map as we're talking around Sherman Drive the the future land
use map is talking about very agricultural uses and that's proven to be
not entirely correct but there are some valid considerations insofar as it's
kind of a transportation center for the city and a natural magnet for growth you
know that that's it's really hard to recommend denial of a zoning case when
it is spot-on consistent with the future land use I mean that is that is the
number one question right when you do the when you do the review of the two
criteria essentially that are there I still struggle I really struggle the
first couple months when we were bringing forward a rezoning that was
inconsistent with the land use a past life you that just that was against the
law I mean you couldn't do that insofar as if the land if the zoning was not
consistent with the future land use the future land use rule so if you had
standards within that land use plan that was different than the zoning
regulations the land use plan governed over those were over those zoning
regulations Texas is a little different in that regard but I think what what
you're starting to see now is really a little bit more of a I think the 2019
sets it up that way a little bit more of an analytical approach to how we how we
start looking at these zoning districts where changes that are inconsistent with
the future land use map. But also probably a good reason why the plan needs to be
looked at correct correct that coupled with an update to the mobility plan and
then if you recall parks being here there's the parks master plan being
updated so we have all of these sort of ancillary very important documents water
and sewer master plan that have been updated that we now need to really take
a hard look at our comprehensive plan and make sure that that's all consistent
so we don't get into these other inconsistencies as we as we look at
these or evaluate cases that are brought forward. Commissioner Smith. I thank you
Jerry I think I agree with you I just would hate for us to start seeing these
comprehensive plan amendments coming along just with a new a new project comes
in gigantic 10,000 home tract happening out on three on 35 W West and we have
this future land use amendment coming right before the zoning and then we sit
here and say well zoning once the once the future land use has changed zoning
has to obviously change as well it just kind of it would be seen by the public
as something that we're just we're trying to change the rules so that the
way we play the game is the best way to win. I'd hate for that to be seen that
way I think it needs to be done I think you're a hundred percent right I think
there's like Agave Ranch is a phenomenal example for us to be viewing within this
because that was land that wasn't being used for agricultural it was just being
it's just sitting vacant land and it needed to needed to be turned over that
whole corridor needed to be turned over and I think it's good to have it but I
would hate for us as a city to start having this this perception of and we
all know how today's day and age perception is what's really leading the
charge around here but I'd hate to have the perception that we're just changing
future land use to meet the zoning and then sitting here saying from a legal
representation that well we've always just changed zones whenever the land use
doesn't match so we're going to change the land use so that makes the zoning
work that's a little it's a little unintegrous so sorry.
Commissioner Pernod? So I guess I have a question when we're talking about the
future land use map and basically looking at the plan as a whole
traditionally when we look at zoning you know we take you know suggestions and we
advertise within a few hundred feet of the surrounding area you know as Richard
mentioned a second ago one of the things we're going to look at is Mayhill
right which is traditionally there's a lot of industrial right there if we
down zone you know the area around that we're going to be having areas where we
have residential abutting against industrial are we going to give plenty
of people the opportunity in a broad enough area around that to discuss this
because one of the things that I think about is a few months ago we had you
know zoning come up along the train tracks next to TWA near the golf course
across from the golf course and we had a lot of citizens come in who lived in
those houses you know along Riddell and everything like that that have been
there for generations narrow streets you know high density smaller houses older
houses but to have big trucks coming in and out through neighborhoods to get to
an already established industrial area I want to make sure that if we're going to
be down zoning into that area outside of Mayhill we make sure that we give
people who are outside of the current range an opportunity to discuss what
their concerns would be because at some point we're going to have trucks and
everything you know going through possibly narrow streets to get to things
that they that they already use is that doesn't make sense yeah no we definitely
can look at that I mean we even had that conversation earlier today just about
making sure that are we reaching further enough out to make sure that we contact
people and so one of the items as we send out even just our regular
notifications you know we do an annual update every year of the HOA is that
various HOA is in the city and so even though they might be outside of the the
true legal standard or 200 feet or even 500 but at least if there's an HOA or
group within that area that we at least we get that notice to them so they're
they can they can handle however they want to do with their community but at
least it at least to get the word out even further what it would be my guess
that comprehensive plan amendments is a pretty inclusive process isn't it isn't
something that happens quickly no and and the quite honestly that the it's a
much it's a much higher standard to change that it is I don't anticipate a
lot of them to be quite honest coming in but in some instances some of these
areas that we're looking at it probably makes sense to be quite honest in some
and these are undeveloped areas and so it's really setting the future when it's
completely surrounded by resident where it's land Houston zone residential and
then you have sort of these pockets of industrial does that still I mean it
also comes down to a policy discussion but we just want to be able to really
look at how we're how we're planning our future how we're extending utilities
roads it doesn't really make sense to continue with this pattern and I think
with our current plan I mean we started talking about in 2012 implemented in
2015 it's almost 2020 I mean it's definitely time to to have the
discussion about what you know what isn't there that maybe needs to be there
that that is is our growth as the city of them and that's where really that we
sort of the way we structure the scope of service is really sort of a two-pronged
approach is so really that first one is let's just do an overall assessment and
evaluation of of the current plan today where we are what we did what we didn't
do what we didn't accomplish and why it could be for a number of reasons does it
even still make sense to do this and then really use that as the basis for for
making making making the changes I think sometimes we're going back and
forth on this today sometimes complaints are great sometimes they get so lofty
and so in the air that they're almost unattainable and I think everyone gets
maybe I'm always I told Julie that maybe I'm a little bit more pragmatic with
some of these things but but I think we need to really take that take that look
because I think it also puts us in a in a situation where we have areas where
there's no development but we may have a corridor that's all commercial mixed use
land use the zoning is is our and going back to where Jerry was it's really hard
for us to say oh yeah they're they want to go to suburban corridor but if it's
consistent with that land use plan we've established that in 15 it's really hard
to say no and and a lot of times the residents don't understand that and so
that's where I think we just need to be very realistic with that with the
expectation of that plan not saying it's bad but just as we move forward so step
one of that is is to for the council to find the consultant is that what I
understand from the presentation correct any other questions thank you Julie
appreciate it before I close the work session I did want to officially welcome
Commissioner Brian Beck as he begins his first term on PNC so welcome aboard and
Richard has something I have one item that just popped up okay I guess the
the applicant for our first preliminary plat the first item on consent they had
asked that that item be pulled off the agenda I think due to some to financing
reasons so there they are requesting that the preliminary plat for Walker
track be pulled off of this evening's agenda
thank you Richard okay with that I will close the work session at 624 we will
reconvene for regular meeting in council chambers at 630 hello and welcome to the
city of Denton planning and zoning Commission meeting for Wednesday October
2nd 2019 with a quorum present I will call us to order at 630 p.m. the first
item on our agenda is to stand if you are able and pledge allegiance to the
US and Texas flag okay for clarification our agenda our
one public hearing for today agenda item number four has been pulled from the
agenda it was removed and it will be rescheduled at a future meeting with
that that moves us to our approval of minutes for September 18th I will
entertain a motion from Commissioner Smith
Commissioner Prenada second the motion okay we have a first and a second to
approve minutes for September 18th 2019 me any discussion okay let's call for a
vote on the board
that motion will carry 5-0 that moves us to consent agenda to clarify that our
first item on the consent agenda has been pulled for consideration so we will
just have the item 2 and 3 on consent agenda Commissioner Smith motion for
approval - extended item a Commissioner Prenada second the motion okay we have a
first and a second to approve the consent agenda - the first any questions
any discussion okay let's call for a vote on the board
that will carry 6-0 that moves us to the planning and zoning matrix and I'll
leave that to Richard just to provide a quick update I know we have the to be
determined on the upland habitat that will most likely be coming in in November
with the with the criteria manual so we're looking at trying to bring those
all together the staff analysis updates that will be part of our next meetings
work session item the next meeting will be the first group of there's some of
the plats that that will be governed under 3167 and so we'll sort of just
give a brief overview again of that bill and then sort of explain how how the how
our AIS or staff report if you will has changed and what goes into that and then
we'll sort of follow that back up and sort of look at our group three city
initiated rezoning and so that will sort of come back around in in November one
thing I did also want to mention excuse me I know Kathy had reached out about a
special call work session on the 23rd we're not gonna have that so you could
take it off the calendar so what I think what we'll end up doing as it and that's
really with respect to Hunter and coal ranch the two MPC's what will most
likely do is that will probably just be part of a regular meeting in November
most likely and so once we get more of a specific date for that we'll reach out
to see probably most likely an early start time and go from there but just
wanted to update that it will not be on the 23rd any council updates for
anything between our meetings I don't believe we've we've had any since the
last since the last meeting very good does anybody have anything to be added
to the matrix okay seeing none that concludes our meeting and I will call us
adjourned at 6 34 p.m. thanks everybody