1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,440 Hello and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:12,160 meeting for Wednesday October 2nd 2019. This is our work session and with the 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:19,020 quorum present I will call us to order at 532. Before our work session 4 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:24,560 presentation we'll move down to clarification of agenda items. I will 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:30,840 say for the record that Chair Rozelle and Commissioner Pernetta are absent at 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:36,160 this time from the meeting. We only have a consent agenda today. Our public 7 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:44,720 hearing item 4 has been removed and will be rescheduled for a future meeting. So 8 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:51,160 with that being said, do we have anything for the consent agenda? Any 9 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:57,320 questions? Okay, I have one and it's really just for my own notification and 10 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:10,700 Haley I think it might be yours it's it's for our first one. It's the walker 11 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:14,520 track down. I just had a question regarding that temporary excess 12 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,400 easement. Through this commercial portion? Yeah so that so it said the 13 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,200 temporary easement will be there until finish out till build out. Is that build 14 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,840 out of of just the residential part or the entire thing and how does that 15 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,880 actually work? I believe their intent is just for construction of the residential 16 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,560 portion. They're thinking the commercial tract at this point would be several 17 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,200 years down the road probably okay but that will will go away once the 18 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,160 commercial and then where is access from that point going to be? So so that's 19 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:49,440 going away and then access is going to be around and down or will that be for the 20 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,960 subdivision or? Yeah well they would have access off of Giesling and Blag. And 21 00:01:53,960 --> 00:02:00,040 that's it okay so okay all right very good thank you. You're welcome. 22 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:24,120 Anybody else? Okay then let's move to Julie's presentation. All right I'm Julie 23 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,040 Wyatt senior planner with the City of Denton and we continue our Planning and 24 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,680 Zoning Commission boot camp series with the second part and that is 25 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,880 comprehensive planning. Some of you have been on P&Z for a while may have may 26 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,160 have heard most of this but it's always a good refresher to talk about 27 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,160 comprehensive planning and I know we have some new ones on the Commission so 28 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,080 this would be a good introduction to the comp plan. So today we're going to first 29 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,720 talk about the Texas Local Government Code and how that relates to 30 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,840 comprehensive planning. We'll go into just what is a comprehensive plan. Talk 31 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,440 about a brief history of comprehensive planning in the City of Denton and then 32 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,840 we'll get to our current comprehensive plan 2030 and then how that relates to 33 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,440 our Denton Development Code. So first the Texas Local Government Code and 34 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:15,920 comprehensive planning. The the chapter 2 1 3 outlines what the regulations are 35 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:20,480 for municipal comprehensive plans. The intent is to promote the public health 36 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,520 safety and welfare. Municipality does not have to adopt a comprehensive plan but 37 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,880 they can as part of their planning effort and it's not the the content 38 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,800 isn't prescribed within the Texas Local Government Code but it can include 39 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,720 several provisions things like land use, transportation, public facilities. It can 40 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,800 be organized however that that that municipality sees fit and it's used to 41 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,840 coordinate and guide our regulations and then the municipality can define 42 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,400 that relationship between the comprehensive plan and the development 43 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,480 regulations. I've got some asterisks there because we're gonna be talking 44 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,560 about that later in the presentation how we how we deal with that within the 45 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:09,240 City of Denton. So what broadly what is a comprehensive plan? Well the 1909 plan 46 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,280 of Chicago was really kind of that first comprehensive plan that was done in the 47 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,640 United States and here's one of the maps associated with that. This just looked at 48 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,000 the parks and the thoroughfares. So that's kind of how it all started the 49 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:27,760 comprehensive planning in the United States. Generally it's it's a guide for 50 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,560 the development of the community. It kind of sets forth what the community's 51 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,720 vision is, where a community is today, and then where they want to go. So that's 52 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:42,400 really what broadly what a comprehensive plan is. The Texas APA and that's 53 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,400 American Planning Association goes a little further and gets a little more 54 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,040 specific about what the purpose is. First to improve the the physical 55 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,160 environment of the community, to promote the public interest, to facilitate the 56 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,200 democratic determination and implementation of community policies, to 57 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,680 affect political and technical coordination of development. Number five 58 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:11,120 is my favorite, to inject long-range considerations into the determination of 59 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,800 short-range actions. So it provides that that broad policy and then how that 60 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,280 relates to the projects that you see every other week. And then to bring 61 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:24,920 professional and technical knowledge to bear in the making of political 62 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:31,880 decisions. What is typically included in a comprehensive plan? Generally the start 63 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,880 of it is the vision statement. Where do we see ourselves and how do we 64 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,040 see ourselves and where do we want to go? It also includes a lot of research and 65 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,440 analysis and that can vary depending on the plan, but I'm generally it's 66 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,240 who lives here? What kind of housing we have? What kind of densities do we have? 67 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,040 What kind of you know are they are they multifamily? Are they apartments? Are they 68 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:59,640 houses? What is the makeup of our housing stock? How do we think 69 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,640 we're gonna grow? How big are we gonna get and where do we think the growth is 70 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,280 gonna go? Environmental analysis. What kind of trees do we have? Where are 71 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:12,280 environmentally sensitive areas? Public facilities and infrastructure. Do we have 72 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:18,200 enough roads and schools and water capacity? Land use capacity. How much 73 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:24,280 undeveloped land do we have and how do we foresee it growing? Community character 74 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:27,640 analysis. That's kind of the intangibles. You know the things that make Denton 75 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,240 Denton and Denton unique. And then a fiscal analysis. What are the 76 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:38,200 implications of any growth? Next we have goals, objectives, and policies. Those are 77 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,640 generally in all comprehensive plans. Those are general terms. We actually use 78 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,360 different terms in the city of Denton so but but they're they're they're kind of 79 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,440 always those those three things. The goals that desired in-state. The 80 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,880 objectives. Those benchmarks. How do we know we're getting there? And then those 81 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:02,040 policies. What are those actions that we do to achieve those goals? Maps. Maps. We're 82 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,640 planners. So maps are always involved. And then implementation and monitoring. 83 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:14,560 How how how is that all how is that plan then then put into practice? Other 84 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,000 facts to consider. Excuse me Julie. Commissioner Smith. Thank you. So when you 85 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,080 go back go back one slide. When you say goals, objectives, and policies you said 86 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,560 that we use different terms. Yes. What terms do we? We'll go over those in just a 87 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,080 little bit. I know. I know. I promise. You know I'll point it out when we get 88 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:36,080 there. So so comprehensive plans are a policy document. So they are different 89 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,640 than the zoning code. That is the overarching policy. The Denton 90 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Development Code are actually those regulations that we then enforce. 91 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:49,280 There's typically a 20 year horizon. So so you're kind of looking 20 years out 92 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,960 into the future. But it should be updated every five years. So things change on the 93 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,760 ground. And so they really should be updated to make sure you've got the most 94 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:03,100 current information possible. So a brief history of comprehensive planning in 95 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:08,880 Denton. This is fun. So we've had one two three four comprehensive plans for the 96 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:17,080 city of Denton. It started in 1960. Then it went to 74, 1999, and then 2030. I'm 97 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:23,200 sorry. Well the 2030 was in 2015. So so this is one of my favorite quotes. This 98 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,680 is from the 1960 land use plan. And it says if some method of measuring in a 99 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,760 intellectual level of a city were known, Denton would be listed among the leaders 100 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:37,080 of the nation. So that was that was a quote from our 1960 plan. And here is a 101 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:42,720 map from that. So you can kind of see you know Denton was much smaller then. They 102 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:49,040 did have the the outer loop here. And it wasn't probably much of it built. And 103 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,080 we're still we still haven't built the western portion. And you could see that 104 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:59,000 they had nodes of activity that they were anticipating as as the city grew. 105 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:04,320 And then there they had a thoroughfare for a thoroughfare plan associated with 106 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,880 it. As I said you've got that outer loop. Here's the loop 288 we all know and 107 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,240 love. And then there was also they had an inner loop that they were proposing at 108 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,720 that time. And I was trying to figure out where that was but I really haven't 109 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:23,320 discerned exactly where that inner loop was proposed. And the 35 W in 1960 was 110 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:29,960 not constructed. So it was just a just a plan at that time. They also had a 111 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:35,760 downtown plan in 1960. So they were proposing a one-way traffic loop around 112 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:41,000 downtown in this area that's green. And that was to be for pedestrians and slow 113 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,440 moving vehicles. They were also proposing as part of that plan a facelift to the 114 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:53,440 architecture. So those those those kind of flat facades that you see on on our 115 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,860 buildings downtown that was they were they were wanting the downtown buildings 116 00:09:58,860 --> 00:10:02,360 to actually put those in those modern facelifts. Now we're kind of taking them 117 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,000 down and going back to that historical architecture. But by that time that was 118 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,280 the latest and greatest thing. And they thought it would be more appealing to 119 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,960 shoppers and attractive. And then city hall offices city offices didn't have air 120 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,200 conditioning. So that was one of the actions that they proposed is to get air 121 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:24,600 conditioning in in our city offices. So we're glad they did that. Then plan from 122 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:31,440 1999 this was the 1999 to 2020. It was adopted in 99 and it was the basis for 123 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:37,720 the development code we just we just went past. So that was the basis for the the 124 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,040 2002 Denton Development Code. And there was also a citywide rezoning associated 125 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:47,120 with that. The land use focused on reducing sprawl, protecting neighborhoods, 126 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,160 mixing uses and appropriate development scale. And here is that future land use 127 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:56,160 map associated with that. That yellow was that protecting existing neighborhoods 128 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:02,920 future land use. And that gets us to our current comprehensive plan Denton Plan 129 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:11,480 2030. So at a glance it was initiated in 2012 as an update to that 1999 plan. So 130 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,120 if I've said earlier that the the plan should be updated every five years if 131 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:22,080 you do the math. Didn't quite meet that goal but we're but we're we're moving 132 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,880 forward and we're gonna we're gonna keep that goal as we move forward. It was 133 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,800 developed in five phases and there was significant community involvement with 134 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,560 all five phases. It was adopted in February of 2015 so it took it took quite 135 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:41,520 a while to get it get all through that community input and drafting that plan. 136 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:47,440 And and just as an aside it projected that Denton population would increase to 137 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,320 207,000 by 2030. So the anticipation is that this city is gonna be a lot bigger 138 00:11:53,320 --> 00:12:00,080 by the by the end. So wanted to go over how to read the plan. First of all let me 139 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,600 ask does everyone have a comprehensive plan? A physical do you have you have one? 140 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:14,840 You okay all right all right you've got one so we need to get one for you sir it 141 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,000 sounds like. So it looks like this if you if you don't have it and maybe you're 142 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,300 not a paper person. If you're not a paper person it's actually digitally 143 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:27,640 online. You can get through it through our website. So the whole thing you can 144 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:33,640 download the PDF and and and read it online. So but if you don't if you don't 145 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,360 know where to get it we can we can we can point you in the right spot. So how 146 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,760 to read the plan. First you know we talked about what the parts of the plan 147 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:48,760 on our vision statement is on pages 14 and 15. It's a rather large vision 148 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:56,980 statement. It spans two pages and it goes through all of the you know how we see 149 00:12:56,980 --> 00:13:01,520 ourselves and where we see ourselves going. It also has ten elements in the 150 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:07,080 plan. Elements are just another word for chapter. So and each each element has a 151 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:13,320 different talks to a different aspect of how we want our city to grow. So we first 152 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:19,000 talk about the plan framework. We go over land use, fiscal and economic vitality, 153 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,960 community character, and urban design. We have a parks chapter, a mobility chapter, 154 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,400 housing and neighborhoods, community health, safety and services, 155 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,080 infrastructure and utilities, and then at the end we have the implementation and 156 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,680 monitoring. So each of those elements contains research and analysis 157 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:41,720 associated with that element as well as goals, policies, and actions. So before we 158 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:48,480 talked about goals, objectives, and policies, and the way we define those 159 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:55,360 terms are goals, policies, and actions. So and then it has maps of course. We have 160 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,560 a growth map, existing land use maps, our existing land uses. We have a future land 161 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:07,600 use map, focus areas, and then also our primarily sensitive areas. So here is 162 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,600 here is our vision statement and it's organized around four strategic 163 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,160 directions based upon that citizen consensus. First of all the character of 164 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,320 Denton, our people, institutions, and government, the strength of our economy, 165 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:27,360 and then sound growth. So those are those four organizing principles. And then here 166 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,640 is just a page out of element two, so chapter two, which is our land use 167 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:37,320 element. So up at the top you could see it says it's a land use element. Each 168 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,920 chapter also pulls out parts of the vision that are related to that chapter. 169 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:49,160 So here are the here's the vision statement that relates to land use. We 170 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,040 also have research and analysis. So embedded within each element are things 171 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:59,640 like tables, or graphics, or also lots of research within the text of the document 172 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,800 so you can go through and sort of figure out how they arrived at the conclusions. 173 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:10,800 We have goals in the in the blue boxes. We have our land use or goals in the land 174 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,640 use chapter, then the land use goals. Those set a general direction. They're our 175 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:22,480 ideal future and those are supposed to be our long-range vision of what 176 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:29,200 we want of what we want our city to be. Then we have our policies. Those are 177 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,440 getting a little more specific. They're those specific statements that guide the 178 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,580 decision makers. They're the commitment to a particular course of action. They 179 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:43,200 also describe context and maybe the rationale of the desired outcome. And then 180 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,880 finally more specific than that we have our actions how we're going to implement 181 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,120 those goals and those will carry out those policies. They're supposed to be 182 00:15:52,120 --> 00:16:00,080 very specific. And then as part of one of our maps that the big map that we look 183 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,480 at all the time is our future land use map. I know on P&Z you see this every 184 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:11,720 every time. This was developed from not only public input but there were also 185 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,080 other variables and an assessment that went into that. First of all we looked at 186 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,480 existing conditions so what's on the ground today. We had alternative growth 187 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,320 scenarios so as part of the community input the citizens actually looked at 188 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,680 different maps and how they they wanted the city to grow. And so those those 189 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,600 alternative growth scenarios one was kind of more sprawled out. One was more 190 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:42,000 compact. One was more based upon centers and and and in districts within the city. 191 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,660 And so we we had that that outreach to see how the community wanted to grow. We 192 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:51,160 looked at capacity studies. How many houses we could support? How many 193 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:56,280 businesses? Community priorities. Things like do we want walkability? Do we want 194 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:03,240 more mix of uses? Our community character and then also a fiscal and impact 195 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,640 analysis and and you know that compact growth would be a more sound fiscal 196 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,480 analysis because there's fewer roads to maintain. Police and fire don't have to 197 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:19,600 go as far to to go out on calls. Other items to keep in mind when you're 198 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:25,400 reading and working with a comprehensive plan. It is comprehensive. It is very 199 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,700 easy to get tunnel vision just on the future land use map that that's all we 200 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:35,960 look at. And although that is a foundational map and and exhibit within 201 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:41,080 the the plan there is a lot of other information in the plan particularly with 202 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,480 goals and policies that we need to look at when we're analyzing cases. Those give 203 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,920 you that context and what we meant when we created that map. So that's that's why 204 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:56,200 those the words are important it just like the map is. Commissioner Smith. 205 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,200 Thank you Vice Chair. Julie whenever we wrote down what you're talking about and 206 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,960 this is a good time to interrupt to talk about it I guess but seems like in the 207 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,840 past couple years we've seen a good amount of projects not all of them not 208 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,520 even more than half I would bet but we see we see a good amount of projects 209 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,400 that are coming in and staff recommendations coming and saying we 210 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,760 recommend it it is against the it's against the flim but we're recommending 211 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:27,740 for it so were you here before 2015 how many of you at the city? 2013. On the on 212 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:34,000 the old 2002 comprehensive plan did we set as to the 99 comprehensive plan did 213 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,540 we see a lot of those counter recommendations against the flim at the 214 00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:44,920 time? Do you ever seen that as a planner? I'm not sure if the city had that kind 215 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:51,840 of analysis at that time often but the 2002 plan did have a provision that if 216 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,720 that if that rezoning case or specific use permit was not consistent with the 217 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,360 future land use map there was that additional analysis you went through. 218 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:08,120 Further the 2002 code allowed comprehensive plan amendments so often 219 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:12,280 they would go through comprehensive plan amendments to amend that future land 220 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:18,680 use map before that zoning case went went ahead and you your your questions 221 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,560 are are predicting my my presentation because we're actually going to talk 222 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,200 about that because that is something that save up my questions for you know 223 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,320 because that is something that we're actually going to be talking about and 224 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,680 you're going to be seeing more it's within our 2019 code we have some really 225 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:39,340 specific processes that go with future land use or comprehensive plan 226 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:42,680 amendments and it's going to be something that you're going to need to 227 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,960 get familiar with so it was a really great question because it's it's coming. 228 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,040 I'll stop interrupting. No you're good. Comprehensive and and and this speaks to 229 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,400 that as well because comprehensive planning is as much a process as it is a 230 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,800 product so yes we have this this great document at the end but it is also that 231 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,320 process of us defining who we are and where we want to go and and that process 232 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:13,760 extends to not only the adoption of that that original comprehensive plan but then 233 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,480 it is a living document how does it change over time how do those 234 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:23,880 amendments change over time and why do they change over time so so if for 235 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,520 instance you know we've had some recent rezoning cases that have that will 236 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,160 result in a population increase for our city and it's going to increase in 237 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,960 places that that weren't anticipated in 2012 and so how do we address that how 238 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,800 how going forward are we going to to incorporate that not only in our 239 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,880 planning documents been in our day-to-day activities so so that's what 240 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,960 we're going to be working through together Texas local Texas local 241 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,520 government code chapter 211 does say that zoning regulations must be adopted 242 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,880 in accordance with that comprehensive plan so so the comp so the 243 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,320 comprehensive plan and our zoning regulation really do relate to each 244 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,480 other and they should we just want to make sure we look at the comprehensive 245 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,640 plan as a document as a whole and not just one specific part of it so now 246 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,400 we're getting to the 2019 code and what the regulations are going forward and 247 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:25,960 and what kinds of projects you're going to see so DDC section 2.4.5 e3 includes 248 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,960 the general regulations for or the general criteria for approval for all 249 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,280 projects and one of those is consistency with the comprehensive plan and other 250 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,400 applicable plans and this is that those general broad that goes over all 251 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,400 projects first do proposed developments are they consistent with the 252 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,280 comprehensive plan and that decision-makers must weigh competing plan 253 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,880 goals policies and strategies so you're will be looking at everything with the 254 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,600 comprehensive plan and then and the last point is an application which does not 255 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,360 match the future land use map may be approved if it furthers the overall 256 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:07,920 goals of that comprehensive plan and so that's where that that that flexibility 257 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,800 comes in that that leeway if it doesn't meet the future land use map but it is 258 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:20,360 consistent with those overall goals as as the land use analysis shows and then 259 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:25,240 we even go further so there is a provision within the 2019 code to amend 260 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,160 the comprehensive plan this is established to provide that flexibility 261 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,880 in response to changing circumstances and and it kind of gives two broad 262 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,040 categories for that so our comprehensive plan was it was begun in 2012 and it was 263 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,680 adopted in 2015 and a lot it's it's 2019 it's almost 2020 and a lot's changed not 264 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,760 only not only broadly in the city that we have a lot more people who live here 265 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:56,120 a lot of a lot of new businesses a lot of new employers but parts of the city 266 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:00,360 have grown that we didn't anticipate in 2012 we kind of thought the north part 267 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:05,600 of town wasn't going to grow for for a really long time and and and because of 268 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,960 those development pressures the the north part of town has grown a lot and 269 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,560 is continuing to see that development pressure so so when we do those 270 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,200 comprehensive plan amendments we're looking at was an error made in the in 271 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,400 the original findings with the adoption or probably what we'll see more often is 272 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,560 have events or trends changed since that last adoption and that's where our 273 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,320 analysis will come in any amendments must be consistent with those overall 274 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,080 goals and policies it has to provide a benefit to the city not just that 275 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,360 individual property owner but it needs to provide a benefit as a whole and is 276 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:48,400 it compatible with the surrounding land use goals also amendments to the future 277 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:54,080 land use map cannot adversely impact in public services in the environment land 278 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:59,320 use or traffic so so we it really should be a comprehensive review of that of 279 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:05,520 that request if someone's coming in for a comprehensive plan amendment did that 280 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:11,000 answer your question on how we're gonna see it go forward okay all right and 281 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:17,160 then but but further we are it's it's been five years next year will be five 282 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,080 years since the adoption of Denton plan 2030 so guess what it's time to update 283 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:29,920 it so as part of the 2019-2020 fiscal year budget $95,000 was approved in 284 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,820 order to start the that in order to accommodate for that update and our the 285 00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:41,760 RFQ process is beginning there's actually a an internal group that's 286 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,400 that's looking at that now and that's going to take place over the next two 287 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,660 months beginning next year City Council will approve the consultant that's that's 288 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:59,360 that's found during that RFQ process and then in the first quarter of next year 289 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,480 we're looking at beginning that plan update we're gonna start with an 290 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,760 assessment of the implementation so how what's a how have we implemented it what 291 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,200 do we need to do to continue to implement it and then those existing 292 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,600 conditions what has changed in the city how are the how the facts on the ground 293 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,960 changed Richard and I were talking earlier that when when didn't plan 2030 294 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,080 was begun we were you know the world was a little different 2008 had just kind of 295 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,600 happened we were still and kind of coming out of that 2008 and so economic 296 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,960 conditions housing conditions a lot has changed since then we want to make sure 297 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,560 we capture all that so that's what's gonna start next year you're probably 298 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,080 gonna see a lot of it come before you a lot of talk about that so so more to 299 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:50,200 follow Julie what is the process for approving an a plan amendment it goes 300 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,880 through the public hearing process so it really kind of follows that zoning 301 00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,360 process you're familiar with it would go go to P&Z for recommendation and then to 302 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:06,600 council for approval it's approved by ordinance and we're also I don't know if 303 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,200 you're aware we're updating our mobility a mobility plan right now and it's not 304 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,200 just cars it's also bike and pet so it's really they're looking at it 305 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,760 comprehensive another thing they're also looking at is safe routes to schools so 306 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,080 they're really trying to look at how our citizens move through our city they're 307 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,020 expecting a draft report to be complete by the end of the year with a target 308 00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:33,240 adoption of April 2020 and then there is I don't know they have a website and 309 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,520 there's a survey so you should go take the survey so you just let me see let me 310 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:49,000 click on it see what happens all right didn't work but you can go to this you 311 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,960 can go to the city's website and I think I just googled city of Denton mobility 312 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,580 plan update and I found it but there is an online survey they're doing public 313 00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:04,980 outreach here you go and and they also have maps associated with it so you can 314 00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:08,400 go kind of play around with this and and take a look at what our engineering 315 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,960 folks are doing we also talked to him today and we're looking to see if they 316 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,680 could come do a work session with y'all to really dive into the details about 317 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,040 the mobility plan and how that's moving forward and what they're going to be 318 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:25,200 addressing so that that will be coming for you in a work session and the 319 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,080 future projects so didn't plan 2030 talks a lot about small area plans there 320 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,120 are two areas they really talk about most and that is the downtown area and 321 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:39,240 also those neighborhood University compatibility areas there was one plan 322 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,840 small area plan adopted earlier this year there was that oak gateway plan and 323 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:49,480 that's for the areas around UNT but we have other small area plans that we 324 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,120 definitely will be moving forward with or and looking at the purpose of these 325 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:00,040 so we have the the overarching comp plan which is the 30,000 foot view of the 326 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,120 city the small area plans really are more localized there to look at local 327 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,200 challenges and opportunities to provide local input for those residents and 328 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,920 stakeholders that that are really that live and in that in those smaller areas 329 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,240 and or work there or travel through there and then create support for those 330 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,680 plans so it's really kind of also a public outreach about continuing 331 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,360 defining our vision and how our city wants to grow so I mentioned the 332 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,200 downtown area is a small area plan and then those neighborhood University 333 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,600 compatibility areas the dent plan 2030 also talks about looking at centers 334 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,480 corridors and other focus areas think maybe some of those corridors that are 335 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:44,080 gateways to our city like places like Dallas University corridor you know 336 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:50,000 those areas those are those are types of places that you see small area plans and 337 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,540 then the dent plan 2030 also goes over the guidelines for the process the 338 00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:57,280 things we actually look at that process for how you go through a small area plan 339 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,720 so so those will also be forthcoming as we're as we're moving forward and 340 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:08,040 continuing to to work on our vision and make sure that our city is growing 341 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,920 in accordance with plan 23 and that's all I have 342 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:21,440 Commissioner Smith. Thank you Vice Chair. So whatever the adjustments I think I 343 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:29,880 think Vice Chair Margie asked it but on the on the amendments to the flume 344 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,240 that's still a PNZ process PNZ to City Council process that's all the plan 345 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,560 amendments but I know if the the flume amendments are the same way as well yes 346 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,960 sir it's part of it so who who initiates as a city initiated before a 347 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960 zoning case has it kicked off by one project bringing something in like I'm 348 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,640 thinking like agave ranch up there that would have been kind of a that was that 349 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,920 was the most notable one I think off top the head that we had that was very 350 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,640 counter to what the future land use map was saying and so does that one project 351 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:05,080 kick off possibly okay and who initiates it city developer either so 352 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,800 a developer could come forward with a future land use Richard may want to weigh 353 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,800 in here future lay so a developer could come if they've got a really 354 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,240 comprehensively planned project they may come in with a comprehensive plan 355 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,880 amendment for that map or it could be city initiated depending on especially 356 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,480 that update that we're going to be going forward with and I'll let Richard wait 357 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,440 yeah the other thing I also would add is as we start to look at these a little 358 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,360 bit more critically you know it's one thing where it's residential and it's 359 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,480 it's maybe a residential land use but not the right density I think part of it 360 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,960 even to the north area I mean we kind of looked at those areas is almost a 361 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,680 reserve area than really a true rural area and so I think that'll be one of 362 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,880 the biggest policy discussions as we update our new plan we're working with 363 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,520 an applicant now that's looking at a large tract that's going to have 364 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,320 multiple multiple districts one to be quite honest is has more of an 365 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,600 industrial land use they want to go with more of a community mixed use 366 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,680 commercial land use or I'm sorry zoning that's something that we have we told 367 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,640 them we would we could not support unless you updated the comp plan and so 368 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,560 that's one where if there's at least some some connectivity if you will to 369 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:27,000 where the zoning and land use that somewhat relate it's you can kind of 370 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,480 look at some of those I think the guidance is there to look beyond and look 371 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,440 at some of some of the other policies but when it's industrial to residential 372 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,920 there's no there's no relationship there really so you are gonna be looking for 373 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,400 that relationship piece I just I think I asked the question one I think it's good 374 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,280 that we're giving flexibility to the plan but I don't want to lose the 375 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,280 integrity of it as well where anytime we have anybody who comes in and wants to 376 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,640 rezone and says hey you know this isn't really fit it's rural but you know it's 377 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,880 not rural use anymore you should put a much put a housing development here okay 378 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,760 can't just start bending to everybody's will because it won't start having a 379 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,920 hodgepodge patch work of future land use changes and so so you're gonna be 380 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:12,280 looking at it is it is it related is it is it at least somewhat close to it 381 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,800 where if it's gonna go from you know we were talking about low low low density 382 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,680 residential to moderate density residential or high that moderate to 383 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,880 high or something like that okay we can work within that or you know high 384 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,480 density residential to community mixed use okay close so that's that's kind of 385 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400 the guiding line there correct correct I think as we look at and just even as 386 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,840 some of our corridors have developed sort of what's on the ground now so we 387 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,280 have some some areas particularly sort of in the eastern eastern side of the 388 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,640 city where we have these pockets of industrial areas some have developed 389 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,960 some haven't and when you really look at how the neighborhoods have built around 390 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,800 it is it really appropriate to have those industrial areas right in the 391 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,560 middle of residential neighborhoods or should it still maintain sort of where 392 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,220 we have our industrial area out west and so it's just starting to look at how 393 00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:04,240 we've developed some of those to be quite honest those patterns have carried 394 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,880 over from the 1960s and so everything has developed around it so now it's 395 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,160 just really taking that critical look at and saying is this is this really still 396 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,440 what's intended and now we have these vacant industrial parcels in the middle 397 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,040 is this what we want to is this what we want to see or does it make sense to 398 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,240 sure and so rather than just kind of go outside the bounds a little bit this is 399 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,600 I think the first time that I've seen even just going back hey when have we 400 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,760 ever done a comp plan map amendment that wasn't a city initiated one I don't 401 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,720 necessarily know it's been a long time and so this will be one of those first 402 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,520 ones I think that at least this commission probably will see or have 403 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:53,280 seen the small area plan is it going to supersede the flume does it is it in 404 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,040 conjunction with the flume how does it how does that work in conjunction it 405 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,440 should and a lot of those small area plans and in the dent plan 2030 has some 406 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,200 future land use designations like our downtown compatibility area or the 407 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,040 neighborhood University compatibility areas where there's there's some there's 408 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,160 a lot of flexibility within that so that's where we really want those small 409 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,120 area plans so we can get we can get a little more granular in what those 410 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,840 specific areas need and it really should further inform that comprehensive plan 411 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,480 the way it was by the way I read it just may seem like it was superseding for 412 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,200 some reason but that's not the way I read the Oakmont or the Oakmont the 413 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:39,480 gateway area when we approved back in February but okay thank you anybody else 414 00:34:39,480 --> 00:35:02,800 any questions Commissioner for now those when we're actually making decisions 415 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,880 because in a lot of ways they feel like nice suggestions and not to demean any 416 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,640 anything but do you know what I'm saying you know like when we're just when they're 417 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,440 bought before us and their suggestions on what we'd like to see happen how much 418 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,720 are we considering that is being codified as opposed to being an ideal 419 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:29,280 well they are policy documents but they're policy documents that should be 420 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,120 referenced and and a basis for our analysis when we have a case coming 421 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,320 before us so and our 2019 code really goes further than the 2002 code and that 422 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,440 it does it not only talks about those that is a is a is a proposal consistent 423 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,960 with the with the comprehensive plan but is it also consistent with other plans 424 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,400 associated with that area and so we're going to be not only looking at the 425 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,640 comprehensive plan when we analyze projects as we're implementing the 2019 426 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,280 code but we're going to be also factoring any small area plans that are 427 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:07,360 associated with with that with that site so yeah it's it's it's it's it's a lot 428 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:13,600 more prominent in that 2019 code mr. Smith thank you faster this is 429 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,520 actually a question Julia rich cancer but we're talking about the comp plan 430 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,920 amendments and we're seeing those little tops of pockets of industrial 431 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,120 surrounded by residential or something like that I don't think anybody in the 432 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,120 residential is really gonna have an issue with seeing industrial being 433 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,280 changed on the plan the plan and that will kick off a zoning it changes well 434 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,560 correct or how does that how does that work how does zoning tied to land use 435 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:44,600 mapping correct so they'll be so really we're looking at it in a way of prior 436 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,920 to even getting this and we may run them most likely concurrently but for the 437 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,760 most part in order to get that at least our our recommendation of approval you 438 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,880 would have to have that your your zoning consistent with with that future land 439 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,640 use element and that would all be brought together so you see that the 440 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,960 whole picture I'm betting that it's gonna be more of the industrials to 441 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:18,800 residentials and a lot less of the industrials to correct correct I think 442 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,120 and most of it is gonna occur along some of our corridors I think if you just 443 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,040 look at what's happening with the May Hill Road expansion and just how that 444 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:34,160 area has grown sort of west of there from between the loop and and May Hill 445 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,000 and that whole area is really transitioning a number of different ways 446 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:45,320 and it's just really taking a hard look at that but as as humbled rather than 447 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,280 doing it in these small peaceful fashions they're starting to acquire 448 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,800 large large large tracts of land and really looking at more of a 449 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,320 comprehensive development which quite honestly I think is a better probably a 450 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,600 better approach to it but then allows us to really look at you know now we're 451 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,560 gonna have a six lane arterial running through there yeah yeah it might not 452 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,480 make sense for single-family but then do we also want more heavy trucks and 453 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,360 industrial or does it make sense to be more of a commercial office I'm just 454 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,320 envisioning some of the headaches that came along the citywide rezoning and 455 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:22,280 having to come back you know us us city initiating you know future land use and 456 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,880 then kicking off zoning changes and then they're all back to square one of we're 457 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,640 changing entire areas and we're gonna have neighbors and folks coming out and 458 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,560 talking about it before downs only I don't think we're having anybody get 459 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,480 mad about the industrial man turned into residential land unless they were sold a 460 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,240 house saying that this is always gonna be a park when it's been zoned heavy 461 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,120 industrial for forever and they can ever build a home development but now they 462 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:55,560 can so just commissioner back yeah I'm not sure who to direct this to but you 463 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:01,200 mentioned the granularity of when you were discussing the flume and the plan 464 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,120 and this sort of subtopic has come up a little bit when you're doing these 465 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:13,520 audits is there a stated policy to reduce the granularity maintain the 466 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:19,560 variability is whereas it just vary across the landscape of Denton as it 467 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,040 were because when we're talking about down and up zoning you're really often 468 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:31,760 talking about reducing the variability of the various plans and zones to two 469 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,600 more common features and you're you've got mixed right now and then you're 470 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,600 going to go to all residential as as the plan adopts it so is that a guiding 471 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,160 policy that you want to have more of a mixed environment or have less of a 472 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:53,680 mixed environment or there is no there's no bias towards one or the other it 473 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,960 really depends and I think when you when you look at at the at the at the 474 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,240 comprehensive plan of the future land use element it is this very broad broad 475 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:09,200 document and so you may have commercial or regional mixed use and it provides 476 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,800 those guiding overall policies for various different parts of the city and 477 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:19,480 I think where the where the small area plans come into play is for those those 478 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:24,120 areas that are unique where where it's it needs to be a little bit of a deeper 479 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,600 dive that's where then then that's where that kind of comes in and then further 480 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:34,200 supplements those those guiding policies for that for that for that area within 481 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,720 that that category if you will from there the the the land development 482 00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:43,760 regulations then are then developed which really get into that really really 483 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,520 granular level in some instances it's a straight zoning others it's a PD where 484 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:58,800 it's very very specific to that parcel in that parcel only if that helps I think 485 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,360 it's fair to say and Richard correct me if you think I'm wrong but I think that 486 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,760 when you talk about the future land use map that's something that is 487 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:13,000 irrefutably valid if the future land use map supports a rezoning it's it's just 488 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:20,160 beyond question that that's that that is a valid rezoning decision to make it I 489 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,080 think that you look into some of the other areas to help supplement that as 490 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,720 Richard said to to look and see if if if perhaps it wasn't something that was 491 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:36,020 anticipated by the future land use map are there other is there other evidence 492 00:41:36,020 --> 00:41:42,280 to support that that growth was anticipated in some other way does it 493 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:47,680 solve some other goals for the area that maybe we're not anticipated by the 494 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,640 future land use map as we're talking around Sherman Drive the the future land 495 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:58,400 use map is talking about very agricultural uses and that's proven to be 496 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,640 not entirely correct but there are some valid considerations insofar as it's 497 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:11,680 kind of a transportation center for the city and a natural magnet for growth you 498 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:18,400 know that that's it's really hard to recommend denial of a zoning case when 499 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,440 it is spot-on consistent with the future land use I mean that is that is the 500 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,000 number one question right when you do the when you do the review of the two 501 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:32,720 criteria essentially that are there I still struggle I really struggle the 502 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:36,280 first couple months when we were bringing forward a rezoning that was 503 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,480 inconsistent with the land use a past life you that just that was against the 504 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,840 law I mean you couldn't do that insofar as if the land if the zoning was not 505 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,900 consistent with the future land use the future land use rule so if you had 506 00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:54,560 standards within that land use plan that was different than the zoning 507 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,480 regulations the land use plan governed over those were over those zoning 508 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,560 regulations Texas is a little different in that regard but I think what what 509 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:10,520 you're starting to see now is really a little bit more of a I think the 2019 510 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,800 sets it up that way a little bit more of an analytical approach to how we how we 511 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,320 start looking at these zoning districts where changes that are inconsistent with 512 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:25,680 the future land use map. But also probably a good reason why the plan needs to be 513 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,320 looked at correct correct that coupled with an update to the mobility plan and 514 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,720 then if you recall parks being here there's the parks master plan being 515 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:39,400 updated so we have all of these sort of ancillary very important documents water 516 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,640 and sewer master plan that have been updated that we now need to really take 517 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,200 a hard look at our comprehensive plan and make sure that that's all consistent 518 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,640 so we don't get into these other inconsistencies as we as we look at 519 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:58,520 these or evaluate cases that are brought forward. Commissioner Smith. I thank you 520 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:03,400 Jerry I think I agree with you I just would hate for us to start seeing these 521 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,640 comprehensive plan amendments coming along just with a new a new project comes 522 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:14,360 in gigantic 10,000 home tract happening out on three on 35 W West and we have 523 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,560 this future land use amendment coming right before the zoning and then we sit 524 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,760 here and say well zoning once the once the future land use has changed zoning 525 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:27,240 has to obviously change as well it just kind of it would be seen by the public 526 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,360 as something that we're just we're trying to change the rules so that the 527 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,400 way we play the game is the best way to win. I'd hate for that to be seen that 528 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,720 way I think it needs to be done I think you're a hundred percent right I think 529 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:42,040 there's like Agave Ranch is a phenomenal example for us to be viewing within this 530 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,000 because that was land that wasn't being used for agricultural it was just being 531 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,480 it's just sitting vacant land and it needed to needed to be turned over that 532 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,840 whole corridor needed to be turned over and I think it's good to have it but I 533 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,960 would hate for us as a city to start having this this perception of and we 534 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,720 all know how today's day and age perception is what's really leading the 535 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,320 charge around here but I'd hate to have the perception that we're just changing 536 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,360 future land use to meet the zoning and then sitting here saying from a legal 537 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,720 representation that well we've always just changed zones whenever the land use 538 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,680 doesn't match so we're going to change the land use so that makes the zoning 539 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:26,320 work that's a little it's a little unintegrous so sorry. 540 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,120 Commissioner Pernod? So I guess I have a question when we're talking about the 541 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,600 future land use map and basically looking at the plan as a whole 542 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,320 traditionally when we look at zoning you know we take you know suggestions and we 543 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:46,960 advertise within a few hundred feet of the surrounding area you know as Richard 544 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,680 mentioned a second ago one of the things we're going to look at is Mayhill 545 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,440 right which is traditionally there's a lot of industrial right there if we 546 00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:02,040 down zone you know the area around that we're going to be having areas where we 547 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:07,760 have residential abutting against industrial are we going to give plenty 548 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:12,440 of people the opportunity in a broad enough area around that to discuss this 549 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:17,560 because one of the things that I think about is a few months ago we had you 550 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:22,440 know zoning come up along the train tracks next to TWA near the golf course 551 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,680 across from the golf course and we had a lot of citizens come in who lived in 552 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,640 those houses you know along Riddell and everything like that that have been 553 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:38,360 there for generations narrow streets you know high density smaller houses older 554 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,400 houses but to have big trucks coming in and out through neighborhoods to get to 555 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,680 an already established industrial area I want to make sure that if we're going to 556 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:52,920 be down zoning into that area outside of Mayhill we make sure that we give 557 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,120 people who are outside of the current range an opportunity to discuss what 558 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,320 their concerns would be because at some point we're going to have trucks and 559 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,360 everything you know going through possibly narrow streets to get to things 560 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:10,680 that they that they already use is that doesn't make sense yeah no we definitely 561 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,680 can look at that I mean we even had that conversation earlier today just about 562 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:22,880 making sure that are we reaching further enough out to make sure that we contact 563 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,520 people and so one of the items as we send out even just our regular 564 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:32,640 notifications you know we do an annual update every year of the HOA is that 565 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:38,720 various HOA is in the city and so even though they might be outside of the the 566 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:44,920 true legal standard or 200 feet or even 500 but at least if there's an HOA or 567 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:51,080 group within that area that we at least we get that notice to them so they're 568 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,080 they can they can handle however they want to do with their community but at 569 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,640 least it at least to get the word out even further what it would be my guess 570 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:06,840 that comprehensive plan amendments is a pretty inclusive process isn't it isn't 571 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,720 something that happens quickly no and and the quite honestly that the it's a 572 00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:19,680 much it's a much higher standard to change that it is I don't anticipate a 573 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:24,760 lot of them to be quite honest coming in but in some instances some of these 574 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:30,440 areas that we're looking at it probably makes sense to be quite honest in some 575 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,040 and these are undeveloped areas and so it's really setting the future when it's 576 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,720 completely surrounded by resident where it's land Houston zone residential and 577 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,760 then you have sort of these pockets of industrial does that still I mean it 578 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,040 also comes down to a policy discussion but we just want to be able to really 579 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,160 look at how we're how we're planning our future how we're extending utilities 580 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,400 roads it doesn't really make sense to continue with this pattern and I think 581 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,240 with our current plan I mean we started talking about in 2012 implemented in 582 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:05,320 2015 it's almost 2020 I mean it's definitely time to to have the 583 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:11,160 discussion about what you know what isn't there that maybe needs to be there 584 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:17,400 that that is is our growth as the city of them and that's where really that we 585 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,320 sort of the way we structure the scope of service is really sort of a two-pronged 586 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,880 approach is so really that first one is let's just do an overall assessment and 587 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,680 evaluation of of the current plan today where we are what we did what we didn't 588 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,680 do what we didn't accomplish and why it could be for a number of reasons does it 589 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:41,320 even still make sense to do this and then really use that as the basis for for 590 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:47,360 making making making the changes I think sometimes we're going back and 591 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,160 forth on this today sometimes complaints are great sometimes they get so lofty 592 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:58,240 and so in the air that they're almost unattainable and I think everyone gets 593 00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:02,080 maybe I'm always I told Julie that maybe I'm a little bit more pragmatic with 594 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,560 some of these things but but I think we need to really take that take that look 595 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:12,000 because I think it also puts us in a in a situation where we have areas where 596 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,600 there's no development but we may have a corridor that's all commercial mixed use 597 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:22,560 land use the zoning is is our and going back to where Jerry was it's really hard 598 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:28,200 for us to say oh yeah they're they want to go to suburban corridor but if it's 599 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,320 consistent with that land use plan we've established that in 15 it's really hard 600 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,800 to say no and and a lot of times the residents don't understand that and so 601 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,000 that's where I think we just need to be very realistic with that with the 602 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:48,600 expectation of that plan not saying it's bad but just as we move forward so step 603 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,760 one of that is is to for the council to find the consultant is that what I 604 00:50:52,760 --> 00:51:00,880 understand from the presentation correct any other questions thank you Julie 605 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,320 appreciate it before I close the work session I did want to officially welcome 606 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:13,720 Commissioner Brian Beck as he begins his first term on PNC so welcome aboard and 607 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:18,600 Richard has something I have one item that just popped up okay I guess the 608 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:25,840 the applicant for our first preliminary plat the first item on consent they had 609 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,800 asked that that item be pulled off the agenda I think due to some to financing 610 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:39,520 reasons so there they are requesting that the preliminary plat for Walker 611 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,880 track be pulled off of this evening's agenda 612 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:52,480 thank you Richard okay with that I will close the work session at 624 we will 613 00:51:52,480 --> 00:52:00,560 reconvene for regular meeting in council chambers at 630 hello and welcome to the 614 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,760 city of Denton planning and zoning Commission meeting for Wednesday October 615 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:11,320 2nd 2019 with a quorum present I will call us to order at 630 p.m. the first 616 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,500 item on our agenda is to stand if you are able and pledge allegiance to the 617 00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:45,280 US and Texas flag okay for clarification our agenda our 618 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,280 one public hearing for today agenda item number four has been pulled from the 619 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:56,680 agenda it was removed and it will be rescheduled at a future meeting with 620 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:04,120 that that moves us to our approval of minutes for September 18th I will 621 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:09,500 entertain a motion from Commissioner Smith 622 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,480 Commissioner Prenada second the motion okay we have a first and a second to 623 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:21,840 approve minutes for September 18th 2019 me any discussion okay let's call for a 624 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,480 vote on the board 625 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:40,320 that motion will carry 5-0 that moves us to consent agenda to clarify that our 626 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:45,640 first item on the consent agenda has been pulled for consideration so we will 627 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:51,480 just have the item 2 and 3 on consent agenda Commissioner Smith motion for 628 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:58,840 approval - extended item a Commissioner Prenada second the motion okay we have a 629 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:06,360 first and a second to approve the consent agenda - the first any questions 630 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:11,880 any discussion okay let's call for a vote on the board 631 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:24,520 that will carry 6-0 that moves us to the planning and zoning matrix and I'll 632 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:30,480 leave that to Richard just to provide a quick update I know we have the to be 633 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,760 determined on the upland habitat that will most likely be coming in in November 634 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,520 with the with the criteria manual so we're looking at trying to bring those 635 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:45,360 all together the staff analysis updates that will be part of our next meetings 636 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:51,600 work session item the next meeting will be the first group of there's some of 637 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:56,360 the plats that that will be governed under 3167 and so we'll sort of just 638 00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:02,680 give a brief overview again of that bill and then sort of explain how how the how 639 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:08,640 our AIS or staff report if you will has changed and what goes into that and then 640 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,120 we'll sort of follow that back up and sort of look at our group three city 641 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:19,680 initiated rezoning and so that will sort of come back around in in November one 642 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,560 thing I did also want to mention excuse me I know Kathy had reached out about a 643 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,120 special call work session on the 23rd we're not gonna have that so you could 644 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,920 take it off the calendar so what I think what we'll end up doing as it and that's 645 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:40,160 really with respect to Hunter and coal ranch the two MPC's what will most 646 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:45,640 likely do is that will probably just be part of a regular meeting in November 647 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:54,040 most likely and so once we get more of a specific date for that we'll reach out 648 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,560 to see probably most likely an early start time and go from there but just 649 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:05,000 wanted to update that it will not be on the 23rd any council updates for 650 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:14,080 anything between our meetings I don't believe we've we've had any since the 651 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:19,480 last since the last meeting very good does anybody have anything to be added 652 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:27,400 to the matrix okay seeing none that concludes our meeting and I will call us 653 00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:32,600 adjourned at 6 34 p.m. thanks everybody