WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.560 I have time so I'm going to call the meeting to order at 530 p.m. Thank you guys for being 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:15.920 here. If you would please stand with me for the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:22.240 I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for 00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:30.240 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:40.240 Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:49.240 Thank you guys for that. Yes, alright. Do we have any members of the public to speak? 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:57.240 Clearly there's no one here. Okay. See how quick we're going through this? 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:08.240 Alright, our next item on the agenda is HLC 25-005. We're going to consider the approval 00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:14.240 of the January 13th of minutes. Hope you all had a chance to look those over. If so, I 00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:20.240 would need any corrections or a motion in a second, so for you. And I'll move approval. 00:01:20.240 --> 00:01:27.240 Thank you. Commissioner McAdams. I'll second. Thank you, Commissioner Tree. All in favor 00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:36.240 of approval, raise your hand. Okay, motion carries. Thank you. Alright, our next item 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:45.240 on the agenda is number COA 825-0001. It is to hold a public meeting and consider an application 00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:51.240 for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.92 of the Denton Development 00:01:51.240 --> 00:01:59.240 Code to replace exterior windows at 1011 West Oak Street within the Oak Historic District. 00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:05.240 This site is located on the south side of West Oak Street between North Welch Street 00:02:05.240 --> 00:02:13.240 and Denton Street. Thank you, Chair. As stated, this is on the south side of West Oak Street 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:18.240 between Welch and Denton. The owners are Thomas and Darice Judd. The home was built circa 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:25.240 1929. But it has changed over time, so I did just kind of want to walk you all briefly 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:31.240 through the building's history. As you see here, this is pre-circa 1949. There has been 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:38.240 alterations that were done after 1949, and that's what the property looks like today. 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:44.240 So it is to the replacement of 25 windows, all on the building's exterior around that 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:50.240 entire perimeter. Here are some of the current conditions of those windows. They are all 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:56.240 currently protected by aging storm windows. There is air leakage bringing in dust and 00:02:56.240 --> 00:03:01.240 some increased road noise. As you can see there, some gapping. A lot of the windows, 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:07.240 or all the windows have been painted or cocked shut. They've been like that for over 40-plus 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:12.240 years. So just wanted to highlight some of those in the photos. And we also have, some 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:21.240 of the windows have broken weights, so they're not operable as well. So the design materials, 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:29.240 they are proposed to be single-pane bronze double-hung windows made of ultracross construction. 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:34.240 So you can see the proposed window design over there on the right-hand side. So there 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:38.240 is an exterior visualization drawing, but it's that bronze color which is currently 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:47.240 on the exterior of the property. So as provided in your backup packet, staffs analysis did 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:53.240 look at the Secretary and Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, focusing on those five 00:03:53.240 --> 00:04:03.240 items there that are highlighted in red. And as part of that, the standards and kind of 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:08.240 staffs analysis, I wanted to show some examples of other windows along West Oak Street that 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:14.240 also have those double-hung windows that are single-pane, that are made of both wood, aluminum, 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:22.240 and vinyl that are currently existing. Staffs analysis also looked at the Oak Hickory Historic 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:28.240 District Architectural Designs, specifically focusing on architectural detail as well as 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:36.240 windows and doors and broke it down into glass, style, size, frames, and more. So staff is 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.240 recommending approval as submitted for the Certificate of Appropriateness for the 25 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:47.240 main resident windows, not at OKA Street, I apologize about that, but West Oak Street, 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:52.240 as it does meet our Secretary and Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, as well as that 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:56.240 section of the Debt and Development Code. And I can stand for any questions. And we do 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:00.240 have the applicants here, if you do have any questions for them as well. 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.240 Ms. Ritchie, do you have any questions? 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:11.240 Do they have anything they want to say to us about this one project? 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:14.240 I don't mind saying a couple of words, try to be brief. So Darice and I have lived there 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:21.240 for about 41 years, and this is something, among other things, that we've kind of been 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:26.240 thinking about doing for a long time. The windows have, we didn't clock and paint them 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.240 shut, they've been that way ever since we've lived there. I think we have three windows 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:39.240 that actually function. And so we just feel in the spirit of trying to keep the Oak Hickory 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:44.240 District nice. This would be an upgrade, not only for us, but for future property owners. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:49.240 They will be double-painted, the new ones, which I think you might have said, but right 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:54.240 now they're presently single-painted, so they're very thin, virtually no insulated value. So 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:59.240 that's why the storm windows were installed probably back around the beginning of the 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:08.240 historic district, I think it was in the early 80s. And anyway, we've kind of enjoyed living 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.240 there, we want to stay there, we want to make some improvements to the home, and this is 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.240 one that we think will be a nice upgrade. And not an inexpensive one, we're going with 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:23.240 high-quality windows. So anyway, that's all. Any questions? 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.240 Well, we can't help you with that part. 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:33.240 If you could go back to that one right there, where you have all the different kinds. So 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:39.240 we have wooden, we have vinyl, we have aluminum, and now this is going to be fiberglass. 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:41.240 Am I correct? 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:51.240 So can you speak to value as far as historic and keeping integrity of structures with all 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:56.240 the different kinds that we have, and yet now we're adding another one, fiberglass, 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:57.240 into that? 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:05.240 Of course. So the National Park Service has started to move away from necessarily wooden 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:11.240 windows due to the fact that people are running into economic issues, pricing of different 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:15.240 construction materials, it's getting really expensive. So the National Park Service, when 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:20.240 it comes to the Secretary of Interior standards, is being a little bit more lenient. What they're 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:27.240 mostly concerned about and what staff is doing their analysis on is making sure that style 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:33.240 and that outward appearance remains the same moving forward as to not only help with the 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:38.240 longevity, but also kind of keep the architectural style intact. 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:46.240 I know that they are, but I'm just wondering, here's where I struggle. And that is, for 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:54.240 this commission, that is our job, to keep the integrity of structures for historic purposes. 00:07:54.240 --> 00:08:03.240 And I struggle with all the different types, and not that this commission has a standard 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:10.240 on windows at all. And yet now we're throwing in fiberglass into all these others. I understand 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:16.240 the need for new windows, and the pictures that you have of their home looks just like 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:24.240 mine. I have the single glass, and I totally understand that. I just struggle with adding 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:29.240 a different type to this, because none of these are fiberglass. 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:35.240 But they all look the same. Do they not? I mean, is that sort of what it's based on? 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:40.240 I mean, we have a drawing. Well, I don't think those are drawing. I think they're photographs. 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:46.240 No, from theirs. Oh, fiberglass is what I was going through. So we don't really have 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:51.240 a prototype of what it's going to look, but not from a room. To me, that doesn't look 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:58.240 the same. You have an exterior look versus it looks like an interior look there. So that's 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:08.240 hard for me to picture. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying this is where I struggle with 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:15.240 throwing in a different, because I don't think that we have a standard here. And that's my 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:22.240 struggle with that. And the other question I have with some of these, that the vinyl 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:32.240 and the aluminum there, were those approved? Did those have COAs? And the reason I ask 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:36.240 is we've had people that have replaced windows, and then they come, and so I appreciate them 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:41.240 coming for a COA beforehand. We have them come, they've done it, and then they want 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:48.240 us to bless it with that. And I struggle with that. That's the only thing. And here's the 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.240 reason why, behind all of it, after all of this and that huge investment that they're 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:01.240 going to make, they can come back and ask for the tax relief from there, which they 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:07.240 have every right to do. But when we are answering to city council, what are we going to say 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:15.240 our parameters are around? Well, I think we have to recognize the changes that are taking 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:22.240 place in materials and availability. There will come a time when we will simply not be 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:27.240 able to get anything that resembles what was there to begin with. 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:32.240 Or it had to be something custom. I mean, because on the other side of the new materials 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:37.240 and things, I think there's a lot of new exciting stuff that's being done with polymers. And 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:43.240 as was mentioned, and as you mentioned, wisely, right, the whole double pane, like who would 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:50.240 even make that kind of specification anymore? So that's one thing I'd be curious if the 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.240 homeowners would be willing to share a little of their research. I think it would be cool 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:59.240 to create like a catalog or something of like, here's some things that have been done before 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:09.240 and what they look like, right? Because to me, appearance-wise, it looks pretty consistent, 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:16.240 but I understand that the chair's concerns about, you know, trying to maintain some clarity 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.240 in terms of expectations. Well, we've gone through the years that I've 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:29.240 been here that, and we've had presentations on what keeps a structure in a historic realm 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:37.240 are keeping them wooden, keeping the windows wooden. And we have found that is very pricey. 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:45.240 I mean, like if it's like, okay, no one would do that. And so we kind of bend it a little 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.240 bit. And again, we have vinyl and aluminum, but I'm going to ask, do we have anywhere 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:55.240 else on this that has fiberglass anywhere? That's the only question. 00:11:55.240 --> 00:12:01.240 So I did grab the window specs from the applicant and that's being passed around, which talks 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:07.240 a little bit more, but fiberglass is considered to be better than vinyl at this point. 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.240 And what do you mean better? In terms of expansion, it won't expand. 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:15.240 So when it gets heated, when vinyl gets heated, so when it gets heated, it'll expand. 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:19.240 If it gets cold, it will condense. So it doesn't have as much of an expansion, 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:22.240 which means it won't damage the brick. So that's the thing. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:27.240 As these materials come out, we're learning new science, we're learning new facts. 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:34.240 So you'll see that in the backup packet. But so more windows are starting to look into 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:39.240 fiberglass materials. And I think too, my other concern, not concern, 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:45.240 but my thought was in the COA, it was marked like kind. And to me, it's not like kind. 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:50.240 It's totally different. Like kind would be wooden with double pane instead of a single 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:55.240 pane. To me, that's a like kind. But when you go from wooden to whatever else it is, 00:12:55.240 --> 00:13:00.240 it's not like kind. It's different. It's new. It's something totally different. 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:05.240 That was the only other concern. 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:11.240 I guess I have a question about, and I'm still learning, so I have to ask lots of 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.240 questions, but. That's what we're here for. 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:22.240 Angie, you say, do we have a need for parameters for our standards? 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:28.240 Right. I'm assuming since Courtney, you started out saying this is compliant with 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:34.240 Secretary of Interior, etc. I guess I would have assumed hearing that that that's 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:39.240 what we use, that those are the standards that we use. Is that the case? 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.240 Yes, that's correct. We use the Secretary of Interior standards along due to the 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:48.240 fact that this is an historic district. We also use those parameters as well. 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.240 The Secretary of Interior standards. You all for the training that we had, we 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:57.240 always look to do preservation first. Also, we take into the economics of it. 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:02.240 We take into the material. Also, we work with the property owner and we can't 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:06.240 force someone to do preservation to an extent. And so then we look at the best 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.240 next thing, which is rehabilitation. So that's why this was reviewed under 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:15.240 rehabilitation. Well, and that's what I was having just heard that 10 days ago. 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:20.240 Do we need our own standards? Are we going by that? That's kind of what I 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:26.240 understood from the training that that's what we based it on. So, and I guess 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:32.240 rehabilitation is different. So if this was rehabilitation, then that's different. 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:38.240 Maybe the standards would be different. So that's, I guess, Angie, is my question. 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:42.240 Is that something we need? Because I don't understand why. 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:48.240 On this commission, it's been debated a lot. And we didn't come up with, hey, 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.240 these are what we're going to adopt, which is the Secretary of State, and we 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:59.240 kind of relied on that. My whole thing with that is if we're going to say, yeah, 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:04.240 we're going to go with Secretary of Standards, that I'm okay. They need new 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:14.240 windows. That's a given. And what they put around it, we don't have a picture of 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:19.240 a house with the fiberglass. Does that make sense? I can see vinyl. I can see 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:24.240 aluminum. I can't see fiberglass. I see wooden. But do we have anywhere on there 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.240 that already has fiberglass? Or is this the first one for that? This is the first 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.240 one that I reviewed in the last four years. Okay. But that's not to say that 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:41.240 there's not fiberglass that already exists on the West Oak. True. That's honest 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:47.240 truth. That's true. And I mean, as we're getting new materials, we, you know, I 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:54.240 think we have to look at what those are. The picture that you had of the 00:15:54.240 --> 00:16:04.240 fiberglass? Yes. Oh, well, the fiberglass photo is in there. What is that? This is 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:09.240 the storm windows that currently exist on the outside of the existing windows on 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.240 the property. And then I was just showing the interior. Okay. So that is the 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:17.240 exterior. Yes, this is the exterior. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Gotcha. So the storm 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.240 windows are in place. So those are the storm windows that you see there. Okay. 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:30.240 Gotcha. Gotcha. And I understand they're also going to possibly be able to open 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.240 the windows. Yes. They'll be able to actually open the windows for the first 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:38.240 time in 40 plus years. I have the same. Hanging shut for five or many years. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:46.240 Hand open all. Paper thin. And I am going to, are we ready for a motion? Well, I 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.240 just, I was going to give them a chance to look and see. And then Cameron, 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:55.240 anything else you wanted to add? No, I do not have anything else to add. If you 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:59.240 all have any questions about the material package with specs right there, 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.240 I'm sure the applicant would be more than happy to answer any questions that 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.240 come from that, but I do not have anything else to add. Thank you. I'm going 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.240 to ask the applicants anything that you wanted to add, maybe that you could help 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:14.240 us with on the different types. Sure. Yeah. So we did a lot of research and we 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.240 interviewed three different companies. Um, we had the options of billing with 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:26.240 vinyl, which is the cheapest, um, right off the top. Most historic districts 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.240 don't allow vinyl. Um, if there's some here, perhaps they got approved or 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:35.240 perhaps they were just installed anyway. Fiberglass has been around since the 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:40.240 1940s. It's been used as window frame since then. The fact that there's none in 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:45.240 any of the pictures we're seeing is it's not a new material. It's been in use. 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:52.240 Fiberglass also, as we found out, is the only material that can be painted. 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:57.240 Vinyl windows can't be painted. Aluminum windows can't be painted. So the color 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.240 that we're going with is going to essentially match the storm windows that 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:06.240 are there now. So it won't change the look. It will be a dark contrasting color 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:14.240 against the lighter gray and the white brick. Um, the other things are the, um, 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:19.240 as Cameron kind of alluded to, the fiberglass is structurally better. Um, 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:27.240 wood rots. Um, you can't get currently wood windows like the old wood windows. 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:33.240 The current wood windows have aluminum cladding over it. So what you see from 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:40.240 the street is aluminum, not wood. Um, aluminum is a little bit cheaper if you 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:46.240 will. Um, the hierarchy of windows kind of goes with wood with the aluminum 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:51.240 cladding, the fiberglass that we're getting, vinyl, and then there's some 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:56.240 other materials that are also used. So we're at the upper end of what you can 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:02.240 get. And it looks the most like wood because the fiberglass is impregnated 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:07.240 with a texture of wood and it can be painted again, just like the wood windows. 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:13.240 And none of the others can. Um, the only currently made wood windows are the 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.240 ones that have aluminum cladding and that's just to protect the wood from 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:22.240 rotting and the aluminum can't be painted. I mean, paint doesn't stick to 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:27.240 aluminum. So whatever the color is, it's going to be a more modern look than a 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:32.240 historic look unless, I mean, this, I mean, we could have gone with another one. Um, 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:37.240 we'd gone with vinyl, it'd save us about $30,000. But, um, we opted to go with 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.240 something that we thought would look the best and be the most historic like 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.240 because the option to replace it, like for like, really doesn't exist anymore 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:53.240 unless you have them each one custom made. And these, each window is running 00:19:53.240 --> 00:20:00.240 between $2,000 and $4,000. So 25 windows, it's a big project. Vinyl would have 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.240 saved us, you know, we could have done $400, $500 vinyl windows. We didn't want 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.240 to do that, so. It sounds like it's a better option, fiberglass is a better 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:14.240 option. It's supposed to be the best that you can get longevity wise. The wood 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:19.240 windows are still a little bit more expensive, but then that's because they're 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:24.240 a little bit more complicated to make with the metal over them. But the 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.240 fiberglass windows have been around for a long, long time. Thank you for 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:33.240 clearing that up. You're welcome. And the storm windows that are there, what are 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:39.240 they made of? Those are aluminum. Those are aluminum? Yes. They were there before 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:44.240 the historic commission even existed. Right. And you're not replacing those? 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.240 We're not going to keep them. No, they will come off because the new windows 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.240 will be double pane insulated. Oh, so you don't need them at all? 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:59.240 Right. But the windows that are behind them right now will look just 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.240 essentially like that. So the look from the street won't look any different 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:08.240 than it has in the last 70 years or 60 years. 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:18.240 Do you know when I come with my magnifying glass? You are welcome to come do that. 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:23.240 So we all learned a lot there. We did. Thank you. The chances are there are a lot of 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.240 fiberglass windows that we see all the time and we don't know them. And we don't 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.240 know them at all. Yeah. And there will be a lot of windows of something else. 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.240 Council. Years in the future. I move approval of this request. Thank you. 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:40.240 All right. All righty. We have a motion in a second. All right. All in favor, 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:46.240 raise your hand. Motion carries. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:51.240 Good luck on your continued work. Thank you. There's always something. 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:58.240 Always. That's always true. In some way, thank you. I'll be in touch tomorrow. 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:03.240 Okay. And y'all can stick around if you want to. I'm kind of curious about the 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:10.240 next one, but I think we're going to have all right. Item 3C, number HLC 25-009. 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.240 It's to hold a discussion and get staff direction regarding the current 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.240 historic tax exempt program and potential program changes to better encourage 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:26.240 the designation and/or preservation of historic properties. And I really like 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:33.240 that we just learned something about the fiberglass. I think it's great. That's 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.240 why I learned something too. Tell me what you're looking at, what you're thinking 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:42.240 is. I don't know, Cameron probably goes through that just a matter of, you know, 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:46.240 occupation. It helps me to imagine a little more about, yeah, because they 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:52.240 come up with new things all the time. Okay. So I'm going to be presenting from 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:59.240 here so we can have a good discussion. Okay. So we're going back in time a 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:06.240 little bit. So on July 8th of 2024, staff at that time sought direction for 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:14.240 these two questions. We wanted to look at should our design historic science tax 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:20.240 exemption program be expanded to include other eligible properties? And then the 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.240 second question was should there be additional actions that the commission 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.240 would like to take to encourage property owners to designate and preserve their 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:32.240 properties? So we had a large discussion at that time regarding those two 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:37.240 questions. And during that, we ended up talking about our 2019 historic 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:42.240 preservation plan, specifically looking at our goal number two and our 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:50.240 recommendations 2.1 and 2.2. So recommendation, as a reminder, 2.1 was 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:54.240 if you all wanted to broaden the tax exemption eligibility criteria, which in 00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:00.240 this case specifically means including contributing properties. Then you all 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:05.240 discussed recommendation 2.2, which was looking to change the current tax 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:10.240 exemption program that we currently have for individual locally designated 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:16.240 properties. So just wanted to provide a little bit of background. So at that 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:22.240 time, staff was directed by the commission to not move forward with 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.240 recommendation 2.1. There was discussion, but ultimately it was decided that the 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:32.240 program should not be expanded to include contributing properties. However, 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:39.240 staff was told to move forward with changing our current tax exemption 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:45.240 program for individual locally designated properties and directed staff 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:56.240 at that time to develop options. So the topic of discussion is before I bring 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:01.240 forward options to you all to present, I wanted to confirm these two 00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:08.240 recommendations. So as I stated, at that meeting, staff was told not to move 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:13.240 forward with recommendation 2.1. So that is not expanding the program to include 00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:20.240 contributing properties. And I wanted to show a visual of our current historic 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:27.240 districts. So West Oak Area Historic District, you can see it's outlined 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:32.240 there in pink. What staff is being directed to do is only include the two 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:41.240 properties out of 78 contributing properties in this historic district. So 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:48.240 hold on. So then looking at Belle Avenue Historic District and Oak Hickory 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:56.240 Historic District. For Belle Avenue Historic District, there are 29 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.240 contributing properties. And based off that direction, we would only be focused 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:09.240 on two of those 29. And then looking at Oak Hickory Historic District, we have a 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:16.240 total of 60 contributing properties, but we would only be focused on 20 of those. 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:23.240 Yes, Chair. Go ahead. Can I restate what I believe you're saying to make sure 00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:32.240 that I get it? So we're discussing expanding our incentives locally 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:38.240 through two different possible avenues, potentially both. Could we expand it in 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:43.240 both directions or does it have to be 2.1 or 2.2? They're two separate items. 00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:55.240 So we could do both. So these are our historic districts that to be 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.240 considered historic districts, there have to be more than 50% of the properties 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:05.240 contributing to that, right? So they've already qualified, the district is there, 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:12.240 and we're giving you the direction to not incentivize all of them. 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.240 Yes, based off the conversation on July 8th, staff was informed to all three of 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:22.240 the districts. So we're missing out on 167 contributing properties. 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:30.240 Yeah, I don't remember that. I don't either. So here's what I, and my, and again, 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:36.240 we're talking, when was that? July? July. Okay, it was hot. So I'm going to be 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:40.240 able to like just say, you know what, it was hot. Maybe I missed a few things 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:45.240 because I was in here just drinking in the A/C. But one of the things that I 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.240 recall in my thought process, which I'm looking at this as this is being 00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:59.240 presented and going and questioning that heat stroke, was that this would be by 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:04.240 focusing instead on the designated rather than contributing, we'd be encouraging 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:12.240 more people to be doing designated, right? So and, but now I'm really questioning 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:20.240 that pretty hard. Because yeah, there's only two. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:26.240 Two and then 20 in the okay great historic district and then two involved. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:31.240 Yeah, okay. Because now I'm flipping around and being like, well, if we get the 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:36.240 contributing to participate for this, then maybe they would become. 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:42.240 I'm liking their key. Yes. On the Bell Avenue, the green. That's on the bottom. 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:52.240 Isn't that the T.W.U. house? No. She's pretty sure. You're pretty sure it is? 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:58.240 It's next door to me. It's a T.W.U. house. They don't pay taxes anyway. So I don't 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:08.240 think that I don't know. I'll show you. That's my house. That's T.W.U. That's the 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:14.240 corner. There's no other houses there. That's the T.W.U. house. Okay. So I don't 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:28.240 understand because I don't get that. Well, they're in a different class. Well, I guess. 00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:32.240 Well, they're designated, but not necessarily having applied for an exemption. Correct. 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:37.240 Yes. So these are not properties that are currently receiving the historic tax 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:42.240 exemption. These are properties that are just locally designated that could apply. 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:47.240 But if it's a T.W.U. property, they cannot apply. They'd be exempt. Right. So 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:55.240 technically we're down to one. We're down to one. So yeah, I'm starting to I'm 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:06.240 starting to question July Sean right now. I agree. I think we have to do something 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:17.240 to incentivize people. Yeah, I'm kind of uncomfortable with saying include all of 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:25.240 those things because then I don't think there's as much incentive to go for the 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:32.240 total designation because they're getting benefit without it. And so we might benefit 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:39.240 for a while and probably just disappear. I think some of the options Cameron 00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:44.240 presented previously from some of the other cities, it could be if you are 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:50.240 individually locally designated, your exemption percentage is higher. So it 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:54.240 could be a range, right? If you if you're just contributing, you may not get the 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:59.240 full 100 percent of whatever you all decided to do. It may be at 50 percent or 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:04.240 75 percent or whatever it is. So that so that may encourage them. Oh, let me go 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:08.240 ahead and get local designated first so that I can get the full benefit versus 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:14.240 just a partial benefit. So the people that, for example, that were just here, 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:19.240 if their house is not locally designated, they what we're saying by this, I'm going 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:24.240 to make sure I understand. Understood. So if they came back for that, we they 00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:28.240 wouldn't qualify. If they came back for the tax assumption and they weren't 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:32.240 locally designated correct, they would not qualify as currently directed by the 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:39.240 commission. That's what I think. I don't think that's what I meant. Well, it's 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:43.240 giving me I feel like because I remember the discussion of the sliding scale 00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.240 because that's that was that was something we talked about. Look, we need 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:53.240 to figure out a way to make this more affordable as an entry program, which 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:59.240 which I'm in favor of. So thinking about using that type of tactic and include 00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:04.240 go ahead and include the ones that are contributing. But the idea is how to 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:09.240 incentivize getting them designated. Right. I mean, because at the end of the day, 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:13.240 that offers more protections, more, et cetera, et cetera. But it also might, in 00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:17.240 their view, involve more hassle and more. Right. They've got to jump through 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:23.240 hoops and fill out forms, and that's never an exciting pitch. That's just 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:30.240 reminding them that. But I'm not sure that giving them credit when they are not 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:38.240 designated incentivizes anybody to go ahead and be designated. Sure, I guess that's 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:44.240 possible. I agree. And then I think about that they're in a historic district 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:52.240 already, so they've been labeled. They don't mind being unlabeled if somebody 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.240 comes along and offers them enough money and they bulldoze the house and put some, 00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:01.240 you know, that mansions are really. Are we going to say we're not going to have 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:06.240 jurisdiction over those anymore and we're going to open them up to do what 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.240 they want and only those particular ones have to come before this commission? I 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:14.240 thought I'm just saying, is that what we're, because otherwise what is the 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:22.240 incentive? Does that make sense? Well, I just don't think you can give them an 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:28.240 incentive without having some restriction on that property. So I did just want to 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.240 jump in. So these properties that are currently in these historic districts, 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:36.240 they do have restrictions on them. They have design standards that are 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.240 attached, as we saw with the applicants earlier, as well as the Secretary of 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:44.240 Interior standards. So there are restrictions that come with it. They're 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:50.240 just not receiving the additional opportunity to apply for tax exemptions. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:55.240 So the standards that they're qualified to be a contributing property, they're 00:33:55.240 --> 00:34:00.240 essentially already eligible. They're maintaining the same standard to be 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.240 locally designated. They just haven't done that yet. Correct. They probably 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:12.240 don't want it on their property. Or yeah, or they're kind of doing what they want 00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:20.240 not to worry about the standards. But that's why attaching some incentive to 00:34:20.240 --> 00:34:24.240 it I think would increase the likelihood that they would then, for the tax 00:34:24.240 --> 00:34:30.240 incentive, to participate in that and then that might open opportunities to 00:34:30.240 --> 00:34:34.240 creating more designated property. 00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:51.240 And the way we have it now, any property in these historic districts are eligible 00:34:51.240 --> 00:35:00.240 for the tax. Any green property. Only a green property. Yes, only 00:35:00.240 --> 00:35:06.240 individually, individual, locally designated properties are eligible. That's why we're talking about expanding. 00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:11.240 That's what I'm talking about. Whether you include it or exclude it. Right, so just to go back 00:35:11.240 --> 00:35:16.240 to the background, at that time, Commission directed staff to not move forward with 00:35:16.240 --> 00:35:20.240 eligible properties. So not expanding the program to include contributing 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:25.240 properties. But staff was directed of supporting to change our current tax 00:35:25.240 --> 00:35:30.240 sector program for designated historic sites, for individual, locally designated 00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:37.240 properties, and directed me to start looking at options. But before I present those 00:35:37.240 --> 00:35:41.240 options, I wanted to reconfirm that that was the direction from the Commission 00:35:41.240 --> 00:35:47.240 since it has been over six months. I can either confirm or deny 100 percent like 00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:52.240 accuracy. I'm in a stroke right now but let's see what you got. 00:35:52.240 --> 00:36:05.240 So, were you three the only ones here? I was playing the Hawaii the next morning. 00:36:05.240 --> 00:36:15.240 I remember looking at the cities and comparing them and what the other cities did. 00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:25.240 How many of us were here though? I don't even want to raise my hand. I think it was only 00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:33.240 four or five. So we're in a Hawaiian shirt by the way? Probably. I think you have it in your car. 00:36:33.240 --> 00:36:49.240 So right now, when the Jets replace their windows, they don't qualify for any tax 00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:58.240 incentive? No, not unless they're individually, locally designated. So a couple of 00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:08.240 months ago, we had a house on Willowood that we approved tax incentives for. So that 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:15.240 house was locally designated? Correct. That's what the green ones on the map are 00:37:15.240 --> 00:37:19.240 designating. The ones that already have received the designation and then the tax 00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:28.240 incentive is on top of it. So I know somebody I think over on the side asked, so just like 00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:33.240 the house that folks here, they have to get permission to change because they live in 00:37:33.240 --> 00:37:39.240 the historic district, but they don't get any benefit out of that. They still have 00:37:39.240 --> 00:37:44.240 restrictions. They're not locally designated. Right, they wouldn't have the additional 00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:54.240 incentives. Is that incentive only available on improvements? It's improvements and/or 00:37:54.240 --> 00:37:59.240 restoration to the property. So if they're just in the neighborhood, they don't do 00:37:59.240 --> 00:38:15.240 anything and then lay down all the tax. $10,000 every 10 years. Do we ever have 00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:26.240 somebody in one of the districts make an improvement without coming here? More than 00:38:26.240 --> 00:38:39.240 one to know. And do we penalize them? What happens when that happens? We do not have 00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:43.240 a code enforcement officer that is dedicated specifically to our historic 00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:48.240 landmarks or our historic districts. Well, I think the people who do it right and 00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:54.240 come to us, whether they're locally designated or not, they should be rewarded 00:38:54.240 --> 00:39:01.240 for wanting to do it right and get the approval. And create an incentive. So when 00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:06.240 they tell other people, I got this right, and if I keep doing projects and go for 00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:10.240 designation, I'm going to get more. That's going to be better at advertising than 00:39:10.240 --> 00:39:16.240 anything. I think so too. I think that's because it's just to add on to what 00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:21.240 you're, Mr. Chairman, what you were saying is that currently as the tax 00:39:21.240 --> 00:39:26.240 exemption stands, a certificate of appropriateness and or building permit is 00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:32.240 required. So a COA, if they do exterior work, they have to provide me with that 00:39:32.240 --> 00:39:36.240 approval letter before they even can come to the board. So if they have said, 00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:42.240 Oh, I've done this work. I here's my invoices and they don't have a COA letter. 00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:46.240 I don't even bring it to you all because they're automatically exempt from 00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:51.240 applying for the program because that is a requirement, a COA and/or building permit. 00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:55.240 It has to be submitted before they complete it. Correct. And that is a condition 00:39:55.240 --> 00:40:00.240 of being eligible. So, you know, hindsight being 20/20, et cetera, et cetera. 00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:05.240 Bishop, do you have anything to add? Well, I think I'm sort of thinking about 00:40:05.240 --> 00:40:13.240 what ultimately the goals here are. And if the goal is as many designations as 00:40:13.240 --> 00:40:18.240 possible, okay. But if the goal is as much preservation as possible, 00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:25.240 then it seems like the more the more people that are incentivized to preserve 00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:30.240 the better, whether they're locally designated or not, unless the more local 00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:34.240 designations like is our goal, in which case we would want to withhold that 00:40:34.240 --> 00:40:42.240 incentive until they're wanting to take that route. But it seems like the 00:40:42.240 --> 00:40:47.240 standards are there. And if the goal is preservation, then the more people who 00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:52.240 are incentivized to do it appropriately and with the proper materials, 00:40:52.240 --> 00:40:56.240 it seems like we wouldn't want to necessarily withhold that. And maybe there is 00:40:56.240 --> 00:41:03.240 that, you know, scale of if you're locally designated, you're eligible for the 00:41:03.240 --> 00:41:07.240 full 100 and if you're not, then you're not. But either way, you're incentivizing 00:41:07.240 --> 00:41:12.240 the preservation. Yeah, at least they participate, right? They participate in 00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:20.240 that kind of preservation in a positive way. So point of order, if I ask the 00:41:20.240 --> 00:41:26.240 chair, do I ask? So I don't know if we're ready, if we're in a discussion and not 00:41:26.240 --> 00:41:29.240 proposing them, before we see your plan, or do we go ahead and see your plan? And 00:41:29.240 --> 00:41:34.240 then we go back and say, did I understand you correctly? I might be looking to be 00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:39.240 like, hey, can I say maybe switch that first one and maybe go back and maybe 00:41:39.240 --> 00:41:44.240 expand to include? So that's just a rubber turtle's point of order. Do I bring 00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:50.240 that up before you show us what you got? What we're doing right now is we're 00:41:50.240 --> 00:41:55.240 giving direction. So I think it might be appropriate subject to chair and 00:41:55.240 --> 00:42:00.240 Cameron's discretion to take, you know, temperature point, do temperature checks 00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:04.240 at various points to make sure we all agree what we have consensus on. But 00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:10.240 we're not taking formal action here. Yes. So there doesn't need to be. So it's 00:42:10.240 --> 00:42:13.240 just discussion. Yeah, it's just discussion. There's no action happening. Yeah, 00:42:13.240 --> 00:42:23.240 it's groovy. Groovy. I agree with Mr. Sherman and Commissioner Berger on what 00:42:23.240 --> 00:42:28.240 is the goal. And in my mind, for this commission, it's for preservation and 00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:34.240 restoration because we want the history to stay in the city of Denton and what 00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:40.240 it is. And in order to do that, it takes money and it takes money off the owner 00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:47.240 to do that. And, you know, I think that we would like to get more historic 00:42:47.240 --> 00:42:55.240 designations on top of that. I wouldn't want to take the whole tax incentive 00:42:55.240 --> 00:43:01.240 away from those historic districts for that purpose. That maybe if we go through 00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:08.240 a scale, maybe a tiered system where you're in a historic district, they're 00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:14.240 there and they have to abide by the commission and what their district 00:43:14.240 --> 00:43:20.240 bylaws and those things are, I think, for preservation because people can choose 00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:26.240 to not do anything. And thank goodness we saw that you talked about the 00:43:26.240 --> 00:43:31.240 K through that house probably could have been demolished and they took it and 00:43:31.240 --> 00:43:36.240 see what they did with it. And that was a great thing. And they had incentive 00:43:36.240 --> 00:43:43.240 with that, but they did it correctly. And that was a success story, I think. And 00:43:43.240 --> 00:43:46.240 I'd like to see that with some other properties. Well, this is what I was 00:43:46.240 --> 00:43:50.240 hoping would be the outcome of creating the tiered system that we had discussed 00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:54.240 was to create a like, hey, you've done a whole project. Congratulations. You get 00:43:54.240 --> 00:43:58.240 that. And then, oh, you got a second project you're bringing. Well, hold on. 00:43:58.240 --> 00:44:03.240 You get that, right? And then, so what happens is that incentivizes the 00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:10.240 continued participation, the kind of either, you know, restoring or even maybe 00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:17.240 even rehabilitating parts of it, right? Whatever of those four. Do you mean, so 00:44:17.240 --> 00:44:23.240 they have to be based on different projects or here's a project, here's what 00:44:23.240 --> 00:44:29.240 I did because I'm not a designation, but I'm in a district, I get this amount. 00:44:29.240 --> 00:44:35.240 But if I choose to go to historic designation, I would get a higher one. It 00:44:35.240 --> 00:44:39.240 is a tier. It's still a tier. But maybe I don't have to do another project. Maybe 00:44:39.240 --> 00:44:43.240 you're going to get this. If you go to the designation project, then we're going to 00:44:43.240 --> 00:44:46.240 give you a different amount. Ah, so we're talking about the Space Mountain Fastpass. 00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:54.240 Yes. Okay. Got it. How about if I skip the three projects and just go right to... 00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:59.240 But it is the incentive for designation. I mean, there still is an incentive. 00:44:59.240 --> 00:45:06.240 Are you suggesting that a tier system would, like, if you are spending $10,000 00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:13.240 every 10 years, it's this much, but if you're, you know, doing windows and your 00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:19.240 plumbing, you know, whatever it is to make it that the tier is based on how much 00:45:19.240 --> 00:45:24.240 you're investing in the preservation or did I misunderstand? That was the detail 00:45:24.240 --> 00:45:28.240 we were going to work out that has yet to be kind of figured is how we want to 00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:32.240 incentivize that. Some of the prior discussion had talked about, well, what 00:45:32.240 --> 00:45:39.240 about for lower income? And let's say they can do the project to do, like, let's 00:45:39.240 --> 00:45:45.240 say $5,000 project, but then they're going to have to pay that off for several 00:45:45.240 --> 00:45:51.240 years, right? I mean, there's lots of different...or to convince a landlord to 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:58.240 do it a certain way, right? Right. See? But no, in order to create something 00:45:58.240 --> 00:46:05.240 that's more entry-friendly, I mean, 10,000, 10 years, what about, like, five 00:46:05.240 --> 00:46:11.240 and five years? Just something to try to create a broader kind of either entry 00:46:11.240 --> 00:46:16.240 point, but then I also appreciated the idea of, like, well, you can afford it, 00:46:16.240 --> 00:46:22.240 just jump to designation and say, "I want a full enchilada menu, please," and on 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:27.240 Space Mountain. So that's kind of where we had been discussing, and I think 00:46:27.240 --> 00:46:34.240 that's why I got turned around about what we had thought we had 00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:39.240 recommended was that in order to push designation, but to participate, right? 00:46:39.240 --> 00:46:44.240 Like, should there be some type of entry, right? Whereas seeing the number of 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:51.240 properties in it...this is the entry plan. This is something to get them 00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:55.240 involved and aware, build awareness, build goodwill, and then because, like, 00:46:55.240 --> 00:47:00.240 this project, if Cameron gets to call him up in a couple of months and say, "Hey, 00:47:00.240 --> 00:47:05.240 by the way, you know, it qualifies now," because that's why he teased when he 00:47:05.240 --> 00:47:08.240 went out and wrecked it. He was like, "I kind of want to stick around and listen 00:47:08.240 --> 00:47:13.240 to the next part," but I think it would get attention going in the right 00:47:13.240 --> 00:47:17.240 direction, and better word of mouth, honestly, which I think we need. 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:24.240 Have we ever just done any kind of polling in those districts to see why 00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:38.240 people choose not to? Because I think you just ask and see what they're saying. 00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:45.240 I don't think it's been asked. I can tell you, some of my neighbors, they don't 00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:50.240 own the homes. They rent them. 00:47:50.240 --> 00:47:59.240 And to Professor Treat's position here, the landlords, the owners, it's a rental 00:47:59.240 --> 00:48:02.240 property, and they do the bare minimum. 00:48:02.240 --> 00:48:06.240 And treat it. There we go. 00:48:06.240 --> 00:48:11.240 That, too. So I'm going to redirect this back to the discussion. 00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:22.240 Well, but if it's rental property and the landlord's not interested, why are 00:48:22.240 --> 00:48:27.240 we interested in giving him or her an incentive? 00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:32.240 The only way we would give the incentive is if they did the work, and they had 00:48:32.240 --> 00:48:33.240 the work done. 00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:34.240 And came to us first. 00:48:34.240 --> 00:48:39.240 And came to us first, and they did the necessary preservation or the 00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:44.240 restoration of the property, which is, I would like to see on a number of 00:48:44.240 --> 00:48:47.240 properties in every historic district that we have. 00:48:47.240 --> 00:48:52.240 And I mean, to me, the goal would be to have it out there like a carrot, get 00:48:52.240 --> 00:48:56.240 them to do it, and the benefit would be that they are preserving the property. 00:48:56.240 --> 00:48:59.240 And say, wait, tell me more. 00:48:59.240 --> 00:49:03.240 They're not getting an incentive just for owning a home there. 00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:07.240 They've got to do something that we approve. 00:49:07.240 --> 00:49:11.240 But they're already getting income, which is what they want. 00:49:11.240 --> 00:49:13.240 Sure. 00:49:13.240 --> 00:49:18.240 And I would say the chances are we won't get very many of these requests from 00:49:18.240 --> 00:49:19.240 landlords. 00:49:19.240 --> 00:49:24.240 But it doesn't hurt to -- I mean, I don't think it's a problem to have the 00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:26.240 incentive available. 00:49:26.240 --> 00:49:32.240 I do. 00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:34.240 Does that help? 00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:39.240 So I'm leaning towards -- no, it's great discussion. 00:49:39.240 --> 00:49:44.240 So kind of taking everything in, it seems that the majority of the 00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:49.240 commission is leaning towards including contributing properties from local 00:49:49.240 --> 00:49:54.240 historic districts as part of these tax assumption options that I will be 00:49:54.240 --> 00:49:56.240 bringing forward. 00:49:56.240 --> 00:49:57.240 Okay. 00:49:57.240 --> 00:49:58.240 Perfect. 00:49:58.240 --> 00:50:04.240 Any other discussion? 00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:06.240 Okay. 00:50:06.240 --> 00:50:07.240 All right. 00:50:07.240 --> 00:50:08.240 Are we ready to move on? 00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:09.240 Nope. 00:50:09.240 --> 00:50:12.240 Oh, we need to see what you have. 00:50:12.240 --> 00:50:14.240 Oh, no, I don't have options. 00:50:14.240 --> 00:50:16.240 We're not presenting options tonight. 00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:20.240 I needed confirmation before I brought the options forward. 00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:27.240 So just reiterating, you all told staff or directed staff to expand our 00:50:27.240 --> 00:50:31.240 current designate historic sites tax assumption program for locally 00:50:31.240 --> 00:50:33.240 designated properties only. 00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:36.240 So I'm just highlighting the ones that are there. 00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:41.240 But based off our conversation just now, I'm going to change it that we're 00:50:41.240 --> 00:50:45.240 going to be looking at adding contributing properties to those list of 00:50:45.240 --> 00:50:50.240 options, tax assumption options that I'm bringing forward to you all. 00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:53.240 So we're good? 00:50:53.240 --> 00:50:54.240 We're good. 00:50:54.240 --> 00:50:57.240 Okay. 00:50:57.240 --> 00:50:58.240 Well, then we're done. 00:50:58.240 --> 00:50:59.240 Okay. 00:50:59.240 --> 00:51:00.240 Now we're done. 00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:01.240 Okay. 00:51:01.240 --> 00:51:02.240 All right. 00:51:02.240 --> 00:51:03.240 Next item. 00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:06.240 4C, number HLC 25-004. 00:51:06.240 --> 00:51:10.240 Tell the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission project 00:51:10.240 --> 00:51:11.240 matrix. 00:51:11.240 --> 00:51:12.240 Matrix. 00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:13.240 Matrix. 00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:15.240 Chair, did you want to call the matrix? 00:51:15.240 --> 00:51:17.240 Or 003? 00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:21.240 I think I might have got her blood clogged on her. 00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:24.240 Okay, sorry. 00:51:24.240 --> 00:51:27.240 Well, let's go to 003. 00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:31.240 Hold the discussion to give staff direction on Historic Landmark Commission 00:51:31.240 --> 00:51:38.240 requests for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. 00:51:38.240 --> 00:51:39.240 Do you want to have any? 00:51:39.240 --> 00:51:40.240 You do? 00:51:40.240 --> 00:51:41.240 I do. 00:51:41.240 --> 00:51:42.240 Okay. 00:51:42.240 --> 00:51:43.240 Let's hear it. 00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:44.240 I am just -- 00:51:44.240 --> 00:51:46.240 Would you like me to type in the address? 00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:47.240 Yeah. 00:51:47.240 --> 00:51:49.240 Or you could pull up your Instagram. 00:51:49.240 --> 00:51:54.240 We'll preserve that in Instagram. 00:51:54.240 --> 00:51:56.240 It's 120 East Oak Street. 00:51:56.240 --> 00:52:00.240 It is the Stockard Building. 00:52:00.240 --> 00:52:04.240 I'm going to read from I believe what Cameron would have written. 00:52:04.240 --> 00:52:07.240 This is a building I have admired for a really long time. 00:52:07.240 --> 00:52:08.240 It's right downtown. 00:52:08.240 --> 00:52:11.240 You've seen it thousands of times, I'm sure. 00:52:11.240 --> 00:52:14.240 It's on Oak and Austin. 00:52:14.240 --> 00:52:16.240 Is that what that cross section is? 00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:18.240 Yes. 00:52:18.240 --> 00:52:22.240 So this building, the Stockard Building, was designed by a Denton architect, 00:52:22.240 --> 00:52:29.240 Roland Laney, for Gerald and Eloise Stockard. 00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:30.240 Okay. 00:52:30.240 --> 00:52:33.240 Well, let me bring it up, but keep talking. 00:52:33.240 --> 00:52:36.240 I can show the pictures. 00:52:36.240 --> 00:52:38.240 It is this building here. 00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:46.240 So Oak Street is here and Austin Street is here, and it has got the basket weave. 00:52:46.240 --> 00:52:48.240 And it's mid-century building. 00:52:48.240 --> 00:52:50.240 It's really lovely. 00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:51.240 It was -- 00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:52.240 Oh, yeah. 00:52:52.240 --> 00:52:53.240 There we go. 00:52:53.240 --> 00:52:55.240 Yes. 00:52:55.240 --> 00:53:00.240 It is currently, from what Denton, the Appraisal District shows, 00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:03.240 it is still owned by the Stockard family. 00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:05.240 Oh, it's the Tozo. 00:53:05.240 --> 00:53:06.240 Yeah. 00:53:06.240 --> 00:53:07.240 Yeah. 00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:09.240 That's the ever-filling Tozo. 00:53:09.240 --> 00:53:10.240 Yes. 00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:16.240 It was built for Gerald Edgar Stockard. 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:18.240 There was a law office. 00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:22.240 He was the county attorney. 00:53:22.240 --> 00:53:27.240 He ran for county attorney, and he was county judge. 00:53:27.240 --> 00:53:31.240 I think it's a beautiful building worth preserving. 00:53:31.240 --> 00:53:36.240 Not only was he -- was the owner an important person in Denton, 00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:39.240 but it was designed by a local architect. 00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:52.240 It is -- what -- there was -- oh, it was in -- 60 -- when was it built? 00:53:52.240 --> 00:53:53.240 It's definitely -- 00:53:53.240 --> 00:53:54.240 '59. 00:53:54.240 --> 00:53:55.240 '59. 00:53:55.240 --> 00:53:56.240 It was built in '59. 00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.240 Pretty groovy. 00:53:57.240 --> 00:53:58.240 Yeah. 00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:01.240 So that's my recommendation. 00:54:01.240 --> 00:54:04.240 When did you take those pictures? 00:54:04.240 --> 00:54:05.240 Because they don't have the -- 00:54:05.240 --> 00:54:07.240 That is Google Images. 00:54:07.240 --> 00:54:09.240 There. 00:54:09.240 --> 00:54:16.240 And this is -- this is what I have pulled up is from the Preserved Denton Instagram that -- 00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:18.240 Much more glamorous shot. 00:54:18.240 --> 00:54:19.240 Yes. 00:54:19.240 --> 00:54:20.240 Yes. 00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:22.240 And if you have it, I encourage you to look. 00:54:22.240 --> 00:54:27.240 Because there's -- Cameron captured some really excellent mid-century details in the railing 00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:31.240 and in that beautiful basket weave concrete poor situation. 00:54:31.240 --> 00:54:35.240 I think the new parking designs, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 00:54:35.240 --> 00:54:37.240 they're there to park there. 00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:39.240 I think they need to go in there, too. 00:54:39.240 --> 00:54:41.240 Because that's for me. 00:54:41.240 --> 00:54:44.240 That's why you paid to get a parking permit. 00:54:44.240 --> 00:54:48.240 Yes. 00:54:48.240 --> 00:54:49.240 All right. 00:54:49.240 --> 00:54:50.240 Do we all agree? 00:54:50.240 --> 00:54:51.240 Do we have an agreement to add this one? 00:54:51.240 --> 00:54:52.240 Yes. 00:54:52.240 --> 00:54:53.240 Oh, yes. 00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:54.240 Yes. 00:54:54.240 --> 00:54:55.240 I'm checking. 00:54:55.240 --> 00:54:56.240 Do we need one? 00:54:56.240 --> 00:54:57.240 No. 00:54:57.240 --> 00:54:58.240 You got enough? 00:54:58.240 --> 00:54:59.240 Yeah. 00:54:59.240 --> 00:55:00.240 Perfect. 00:55:00.240 --> 00:55:01.240 Nice. 00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:02.240 Anyone else? 00:55:02.240 --> 00:55:03.240 I do. 00:55:03.240 --> 00:55:04.240 I'm proud. 00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:05.240 Oh, wait. 00:55:05.240 --> 00:55:06.240 Do you want me to put up the address? 00:55:06.240 --> 00:55:07.240 Yeah. 00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:08.240 Let's do it. 00:55:08.240 --> 00:55:11.240 So this is a building that -- so I rent an office space in this building. 00:55:11.240 --> 00:55:12.240 Which one is it? 00:55:12.240 --> 00:55:13.240 114? 00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:14.240 1415. 00:55:14.240 --> 00:55:15.240 Oh, okay. 00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:16.240 I was very -- yeah. 00:55:16.240 --> 00:55:21.240 So my understanding of this building, other than, you know, me renting space in there, 00:55:21.240 --> 00:55:28.240 is that it is -- so it was -- I know for sure it was built in 1917. 00:55:28.240 --> 00:55:34.240 I don't -- there's some additions that were added to it, and some changes. 00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:40.240 What I was told by my landlord, from the person -- that he got this from the person he bought 00:55:40.240 --> 00:55:45.240 it from, is that it was a Sears modern home catalog. 00:55:45.240 --> 00:55:46.240 No. 00:55:46.240 --> 00:55:47.240 I don't know. 00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:53.240 So, you know, I was doing -- this is what he was told by Dalton Allen -- if anybody 00:55:53.240 --> 00:55:58.240 knows Dalton, he owned the building before he -- you know, Hugh, my office landlord. 00:55:58.240 --> 00:56:00.240 Hugh Coleman is my office landlord. 00:56:00.240 --> 00:56:01.240 Okay. 00:56:01.240 --> 00:56:02.240 So former county commissioner. 00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:07.240 Which makes it historical, so I was like, okay, county commissioner owns the building. 00:56:07.240 --> 00:56:12.240 But it needs a little -- it needs a little love, you know, for sure. 00:56:12.240 --> 00:56:14.240 But certainly it was built in 1917. 00:56:14.240 --> 00:56:17.240 I would like to know more about the history. 00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:19.240 Hugh just doesn't really know, right? 00:56:19.240 --> 00:56:21.240 He's just getting what he was told. 00:56:21.240 --> 00:56:28.240 I looked through some -- what I could find on the internet from around that time period 00:56:28.240 --> 00:56:29.240 for the catalog. 00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:33.240 I didn't see anything that looks quite like that, but there also had been changes. 00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:37.240 I mean, I know there was substantial work done in the '80s. 00:56:37.240 --> 00:56:40.240 And I think -- I mean, if you look on the side -- 00:56:40.240 --> 00:56:41.240 Which side? 00:56:41.240 --> 00:56:42.240 The north or south? 00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:43.240 I guess that would be south. 00:56:43.240 --> 00:56:44.240 Okay. 00:56:44.240 --> 00:56:45.240 Let me see if I can get a good view. 00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:46.240 It might be harder to see from there. 00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:48.240 I wonder if I can get a different view. 00:56:48.240 --> 00:56:50.240 I wonder if you can get with the alley behind. 00:56:50.240 --> 00:56:52.240 I don't know if you can. 00:56:52.240 --> 00:56:53.240 There is an alleyway back there. 00:56:53.240 --> 00:56:57.240 I don't know if it will -- 00:56:57.240 --> 00:56:58.240 Oh, you can? 00:56:58.240 --> 00:56:59.240 Okay. 00:56:59.240 --> 00:57:00.240 Okay. 00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:01.240 See it? 00:57:01.240 --> 00:57:02.240 Oh, look, there's a cat temp in the wall there. 00:57:02.240 --> 00:57:03.240 Okay. 00:57:03.240 --> 00:57:04.240 Yeah. 00:57:04.240 --> 00:57:05.240 So -- 00:57:05.240 --> 00:57:06.240 Oh, yeah. 00:57:06.240 --> 00:57:07.240 Hold on. 00:57:07.240 --> 00:57:12.240 So there's Hugh's old truck that was his grandfather's -- or his father's truck. 00:57:12.240 --> 00:57:16.240 So those stairs there, that can't be -- I mean, that's certainly not -- I mean, I know that 00:57:16.240 --> 00:57:17.240 that stuff's not original. 00:57:17.240 --> 00:57:18.240 Sure. 00:57:18.240 --> 00:57:25.240 But I don't know when things were added on or what was added on. 00:57:25.240 --> 00:57:29.240 From the inside, it's all a whole building that's just wood. 00:57:29.240 --> 00:57:30.240 Cool. 00:57:30.240 --> 00:57:31.240 And -- 00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:32.240 I love the front door. 00:57:32.240 --> 00:57:35.240 Did you see that -- the header of the front door? 00:57:35.240 --> 00:57:39.240 And there were two brick -- look like -- maybe there were columns there? 00:57:39.240 --> 00:57:40.240 Yeah. 00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:41.240 Yeah, it does look like that. 00:57:41.240 --> 00:57:45.240 The two brick on each side of the front door, which was cool. 00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:48.240 And of course, the trash can. 00:57:48.240 --> 00:57:49.240 Yeah. 00:57:49.240 --> 00:57:50.240 Right there. 00:57:50.240 --> 00:57:51.240 See this brick? 00:57:51.240 --> 00:57:53.240 Maybe there were columns there. 00:57:53.240 --> 00:57:57.240 I know certainly if there were incentives to fix things up. 00:57:57.240 --> 00:57:58.240 Right. 00:57:58.240 --> 00:58:03.240 That would be something that would be considered by the counselor. 00:58:03.240 --> 00:58:04.240 Yes. 00:58:04.240 --> 00:58:07.240 It's a conflict of interest. 00:58:07.240 --> 00:58:08.240 I'll move out. 00:58:08.240 --> 00:58:09.240 You know what? 00:58:09.240 --> 00:58:10.240 He doesn't own it. 00:58:10.240 --> 00:58:11.240 He doesn't own it. 00:58:11.240 --> 00:58:12.240 I'll move out. 00:58:12.240 --> 00:58:17.240 I'll be happy to move out without him. 00:58:17.240 --> 00:58:20.240 But I think it's a cool building. 00:58:20.240 --> 00:58:22.240 Especially if it's a Sears house, aren't we glad? 00:58:22.240 --> 00:58:25.240 Especially if it's a Sears group. 00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:26.240 That is neat. 00:58:26.240 --> 00:58:30.240 And even the one when we were doing that, like next door, too, would be -- 00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:36.240 Yeah, well, so I'll look to see -- I didn't look on the appraisal district to see my store near those buildings. 00:58:36.240 --> 00:58:37.240 That'd be cool. 00:58:37.240 --> 00:58:38.240 I mean, I'm sure it's an old house. 00:58:38.240 --> 00:58:39.240 Oh, it is. 00:58:39.240 --> 00:58:40.240 Come on. 00:58:40.240 --> 00:58:43.240 I don't even know my neighbors. 00:58:43.240 --> 00:58:46.240 I should go meet them. 00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:49.240 Okay, so we have interest in 1415. 00:58:49.240 --> 00:58:50.240 I have it written down. 00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:52.240 I just want to make sure we have -- yes. 00:58:52.240 --> 00:58:53.240 Okay, perfect. 00:58:53.240 --> 00:58:55.240 Is anyone not interested? 00:58:55.240 --> 00:58:56.240 Say that's better. 00:58:56.240 --> 00:58:57.240 We are. 00:58:57.240 --> 00:58:58.240 Yeah. 00:58:58.240 --> 00:59:02.240 Anyone else have one? 00:59:02.240 --> 00:59:03.240 Look at that. 00:59:03.240 --> 00:59:04.240 Two and one not. 00:59:04.240 --> 00:59:05.240 Yes, I got another one. 00:59:05.240 --> 00:59:06.240 You do? 00:59:06.240 --> 00:59:07.240 Okay. 00:59:07.240 --> 00:59:10.240 So we are -- more of a question of clarification. 00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:13.240 Why don't you go through the training seats and things? 00:59:13.240 --> 00:59:14.240 Hold on. 00:59:14.240 --> 00:59:16.240 I've been curious about that. 00:59:16.240 --> 00:59:19.240 I didn't know -- when am I supposed to bring it up? 00:59:19.240 --> 00:59:21.240 Oh, I can literally bring it up in the meetings? 00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:22.240 Well, here we go. 00:59:22.240 --> 00:59:25.240 I'm still disappointed that, you know, Frost has people talk to us. 00:59:25.240 --> 00:59:26.240 Well, right. 00:59:26.240 --> 00:59:30.240 But let me -- I'm working on that. 00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:32.240 I've had a couple milkshake conversations. 00:59:32.240 --> 00:59:35.240 So hopefully they'll return to me. 00:59:35.240 --> 00:59:37.240 Back to being open revenue business, I'm sorry. 00:59:37.240 --> 00:59:38.240 No, no. 00:59:38.240 --> 00:59:39.240 There will never be revenue. 00:59:39.240 --> 00:59:41.240 No, they're way beyond that, my man. 00:59:41.240 --> 00:59:42.240 It's like that ship is sailed. 00:59:42.240 --> 00:59:44.240 They're open when they're open. 00:59:44.240 --> 00:59:46.240 So that's why if I see it, I'm going to let go. 00:59:46.240 --> 00:59:47.240 Okay, so I'm sorry, the property. 00:59:47.240 --> 00:59:49.240 Yes. 00:59:49.240 --> 00:59:52.240 Use perhaps know it better as Oak Street Draft House. 00:59:52.240 --> 00:59:54.240 It's a 308 East Oak Street. 00:59:54.240 --> 00:59:55.240 Yes. 00:59:55.240 --> 00:59:56.240 Okay. 00:59:56.240 --> 01:00:02.240 That home, the old Shipley Manor. 01:00:02.240 --> 01:00:05.240 I got into a conversation with them because they recently redid -- 01:00:05.240 --> 01:00:07.240 they're putting in some handicap access. 01:00:07.240 --> 01:00:09.240 And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:12.240 You guys know that if you're, like, doing something, 01:00:12.240 --> 01:00:16.240 and the place could use some work. 01:00:16.240 --> 01:00:18.240 They're just about to have their 13th anniversary 01:00:18.240 --> 01:00:21.240 because it was set to be demolished when John Williams bought it. 01:00:21.240 --> 01:00:29.240 And so he was able to get it back up and give it a pass code. 01:00:29.240 --> 01:00:31.240 But I'm sorry. 01:00:31.240 --> 01:00:33.240 It is -- 01:00:33.240 --> 01:00:34.240 308. 01:00:34.240 --> 01:00:38.240 Yes, 308 East Oak Street. 01:00:38.240 --> 01:00:40.240 So the Oak Street Draft House, 01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:42.240 they're about to have their 13-year anniversary. 01:00:42.240 --> 01:00:47.240 And so I was like, you know, wouldn't it be cool if maybe you -- 01:00:47.240 --> 01:00:49.240 you're going to do some work to it. 01:00:49.240 --> 01:00:50.240 You're doing work on it. 01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:54.240 Wouldn't it be nice to, like, maybe get some hospital incentives on that 01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:56.240 and get it designated? 01:00:56.240 --> 01:00:58.240 And they're curious. 01:00:58.240 --> 01:01:02.240 And so because he also has Eastside Draft House, 01:01:02.240 --> 01:01:04.240 which I think might also be potentially significant. 01:01:04.240 --> 01:01:06.240 We can look at that later. 01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:08.240 And Miss Angelina's. 01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:11.240 And Miss Angelina's Draft House, correct. 01:01:11.240 --> 01:01:13.240 Although there's been a lot of stuff. 01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:15.240 But worth looking at, right? 01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:19.240 So his interest in old houses, plus putting in money to bring them up. 01:01:19.240 --> 01:01:20.240 I'm like, hold on. 01:01:20.240 --> 01:01:23.240 This is kind of like the sweet spot we're looking for, 01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:25.240 because you would be like a poster boy 01:01:25.240 --> 01:01:28.240 if you really leaned into this program, right? 01:01:28.240 --> 01:01:32.240 So John Williams is just like, oh, I'm away to my next thing. 01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:34.240 But yeah, send him an email. 01:01:34.240 --> 01:01:35.240 Send me an email. 01:01:35.240 --> 01:01:37.240 And we'll be together and we'll talk about it. 01:01:37.240 --> 01:01:41.240 So there's that. 01:01:41.240 --> 01:01:44.240 Anyone not interested in 308 East Oak? 01:01:44.240 --> 01:01:46.240 How about, how'd you like that? 01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:47.240 I love that. 01:01:47.240 --> 01:01:48.240 That was good. 01:01:48.240 --> 01:01:49.240 That was slick. 01:01:49.240 --> 01:01:51.240 So look at that, three. 01:01:51.240 --> 01:01:52.240 I love it. 01:01:52.240 --> 01:01:53.240 I'm so excited. 01:01:53.240 --> 01:01:54.240 Okay. 01:01:54.240 --> 01:01:55.240 Anyone else? 01:01:55.240 --> 01:01:56.240 No. 01:01:56.240 --> 01:01:58.240 I don't want to leave anyone out here. 01:01:58.240 --> 01:01:59.240 Okay. 01:01:59.240 --> 01:02:01.240 All right. 01:02:01.240 --> 01:02:03.240 This is a new precedent, by the way. 01:02:03.240 --> 01:02:06.240 So don't feel that much pressure, because, you know. 01:02:06.240 --> 01:02:08.240 All right. 01:02:08.240 --> 01:02:10.240 How are you doing, Mom? 01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:11.240 Okay. 01:02:11.240 --> 01:02:17.240 Now we are on 4C, number HLC 25-204. 01:02:17.240 --> 01:02:22.240 Hold a discussion regarding that Historic Landmarks Commission Project Matrix. 01:02:22.240 --> 01:02:23.240 Yes. 01:02:23.240 --> 01:02:29.240 So we have obviously our historic tax exemption discussion. 01:02:29.240 --> 01:02:36.240 Once we get our tax exemption discussion in place, we are going to have a focus group with historic property owners. 01:02:36.240 --> 01:02:38.240 Just to kind of walk through that. 01:02:38.240 --> 01:02:43.240 We are planning to have that marketing discussion sometime this spring. 01:02:43.240 --> 01:02:45.240 Just trying to get us through the tax exemption. 01:02:45.240 --> 01:02:47.240 It's a lot when it comes to a meeting. 01:02:47.240 --> 01:02:50.240 So just trying to get through that process. 01:02:50.240 --> 01:02:53.240 I will. 01:02:53.240 --> 01:02:57.240 In regards to the Denton Women's Club, I know that's been an important discussion. 01:02:57.240 --> 01:03:07.240 If you all have any specific questions, speaking with legal, staff was guided towards waiting until there's a budget determination. 01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:13.240 Because it might be about 10 plus years that we're seeing that Quaker Town Park project come forward, unfortunately. 01:03:13.240 --> 01:03:15.240 So staff was directed. 01:03:15.240 --> 01:03:24.240 So staff was directed to put that on hold until there is a budget determination. 01:03:24.240 --> 01:03:31.240 And then in terms of, I know this was brought up with the historic district signage and kind of that larger discussion of unification and everything. 01:03:31.240 --> 01:03:36.240 That's also going to be brought back in spring of 2025. 01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:38.240 So we have some good things to look forward to. 01:03:38.240 --> 01:03:43.240 If you all want to add anything, please feel free to bring it forward right now. 01:03:43.240 --> 01:03:47.240 And I just wanted to remind you all, we do have a short turnaround between meetings. 01:03:47.240 --> 01:03:55.240 We do have our next meeting on March 3rd. 01:03:55.240 --> 01:03:56.240 All right. 01:03:56.240 --> 01:04:00.240 Anything else to add? 01:04:00.240 --> 01:04:02.240 We added enough. 01:04:02.240 --> 01:04:03.240 I think we did. 01:04:03.240 --> 01:04:04.240 I think we did. 01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:05.240 I think we did. 01:04:05.240 --> 01:04:06.240 All right. 01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:08.240 Any other business? 01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:13.240 If not, we will adjourn the meeting at 634 PM. 01:04:13.240 --> 01:04:17.240 Thank you.