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 I have time so I'm going to call the meeting to order at 530 p.m. Thank you guys for being

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 here. If you would please stand with me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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 I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for

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 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

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 Thank you guys for that. Yes, alright. Do we have any members of the public to speak?

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 Clearly there's no one here. Okay. See how quick we're going through this?

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 Alright, our next item on the agenda is HLC 25-005. We're going to consider the approval

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 of the January 13th of minutes. Hope you all had a chance to look those over. If so, I

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 would need any corrections or a motion in a second, so for you. And I'll move approval.

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 Thank you. Commissioner McAdams. I'll second. Thank you, Commissioner Tree. All in favor

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 of approval, raise your hand. Okay, motion carries. Thank you. Alright, our next item

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 on the agenda is number COA 825-0001. It is to hold a public meeting and consider an application

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 for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.92 of the Denton Development

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 Code to replace exterior windows at 1011 West Oak Street within the Oak Historic District.

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 This site is located on the south side of West Oak Street between North Welch Street

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 and Denton Street. Thank you, Chair. As stated, this is on the south side of West Oak Street

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 between Welch and Denton. The owners are Thomas and Darice Judd. The home was built circa

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 1929. But it has changed over time, so I did just kind of want to walk you all briefly

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 through the building's history. As you see here, this is pre-circa 1949. There has been

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 alterations that were done after 1949, and that's what the property looks like today.

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 So it is to the replacement of 25 windows, all on the building's exterior around that

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 entire perimeter. Here are some of the current conditions of those windows. They are all

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 currently protected by aging storm windows. There is air leakage bringing in dust and

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 some increased road noise. As you can see there, some gapping. A lot of the windows,

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 or all the windows have been painted or cocked shut. They've been like that for over 40-plus

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 years. So just wanted to highlight some of those in the photos. And we also have, some

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 of the windows have broken weights, so they're not operable as well. So the design materials,

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 they are proposed to be single-pane bronze double-hung windows made of ultracross construction.

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 So you can see the proposed window design over there on the right-hand side. So there

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 is an exterior visualization drawing, but it's that bronze color which is currently

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 on the exterior of the property. So as provided in your backup packet, staffs analysis did

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 look at the Secretary and Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, focusing on those five

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 items there that are highlighted in red. And as part of that, the standards and kind of

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 staffs analysis, I wanted to show some examples of other windows along West Oak Street that

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 also have those double-hung windows that are single-pane, that are made of both wood, aluminum,

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 and vinyl that are currently existing. Staffs analysis also looked at the Oak Hickory Historic

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 District Architectural Designs, specifically focusing on architectural detail as well as

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 windows and doors and broke it down into glass, style, size, frames, and more. So staff is

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 recommending approval as submitted for the Certificate of Appropriateness for the 25

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 main resident windows, not at OKA Street, I apologize about that, but West Oak Street,

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 as it does meet our Secretary and Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, as well as that

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 section of the Debt and Development Code. And I can stand for any questions. And we do

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 have the applicants here, if you do have any questions for them as well.

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 Ms. Ritchie, do you have any questions?

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 Do they have anything they want to say to us about this one project?

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 I don't mind saying a couple of words, try to be brief. So Darice and I have lived there

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 for about 41 years, and this is something, among other things, that we've kind of been

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 thinking about doing for a long time. The windows have, we didn't clock and paint them

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 shut, they've been that way ever since we've lived there. I think we have three windows

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 that actually function. And so we just feel in the spirit of trying to keep the Oak Hickory

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 District nice. This would be an upgrade, not only for us, but for future property owners.

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 They will be double-painted, the new ones, which I think you might have said, but right

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 now they're presently single-painted, so they're very thin, virtually no insulated value. So

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 that's why the storm windows were installed probably back around the beginning of the

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 historic district, I think it was in the early 80s. And anyway, we've kind of enjoyed living

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 there, we want to stay there, we want to make some improvements to the home, and this is

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 one that we think will be a nice upgrade. And not an inexpensive one, we're going with

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 high-quality windows. So anyway, that's all. Any questions?

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 Well, we can't help you with that part.

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 If you could go back to that one right there, where you have all the different kinds. So

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 we have wooden, we have vinyl, we have aluminum, and now this is going to be fiberglass.

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 Am I correct?

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 So can you speak to value as far as historic and keeping integrity of structures with all

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 the different kinds that we have, and yet now we're adding another one, fiberglass,

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 into that?

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 Of course. So the National Park Service has started to move away from necessarily wooden

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 windows due to the fact that people are running into economic issues, pricing of different

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 construction materials, it's getting really expensive. So the National Park Service, when

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 it comes to the Secretary of Interior standards, is being a little bit more lenient. What they're

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 mostly concerned about and what staff is doing their analysis on is making sure that style

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 and that outward appearance remains the same moving forward as to not only help with the

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 longevity, but also kind of keep the architectural style intact.

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 I know that they are, but I'm just wondering, here's where I struggle. And that is, for

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 this commission, that is our job, to keep the integrity of structures for historic purposes.

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 And I struggle with all the different types, and not that this commission has a standard

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 on windows at all. And yet now we're throwing in fiberglass into all these others. I understand

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 the need for new windows, and the pictures that you have of their home looks just like

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 mine. I have the single glass, and I totally understand that. I just struggle with adding

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 a different type to this, because none of these are fiberglass.

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 But they all look the same. Do they not? I mean, is that sort of what it's based on?

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 I mean, we have a drawing. Well, I don't think those are drawing. I think they're photographs.

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 No, from theirs. Oh, fiberglass is what I was going through. So we don't really have

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 a prototype of what it's going to look, but not from a room. To me, that doesn't look

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 the same. You have an exterior look versus it looks like an interior look there. So that's

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 hard for me to picture. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying this is where I struggle with

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 throwing in a different, because I don't think that we have a standard here. And that's my

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 struggle with that. And the other question I have with some of these, that the vinyl

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 and the aluminum there, were those approved? Did those have COAs? And the reason I ask

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 is we've had people that have replaced windows, and then they come, and so I appreciate them

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 coming for a COA beforehand. We have them come, they've done it, and then they want

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 us to bless it with that. And I struggle with that. That's the only thing. And here's the

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 reason why, behind all of it, after all of this and that huge investment that they're

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 going to make, they can come back and ask for the tax relief from there, which they

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 have every right to do. But when we are answering to city council, what are we going to say

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 our parameters are around? Well, I think we have to recognize the changes that are taking

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 place in materials and availability. There will come a time when we will simply not be

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 able to get anything that resembles what was there to begin with.

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 Or it had to be something custom. I mean, because on the other side of the new materials

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 and things, I think there's a lot of new exciting stuff that's being done with polymers. And

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 as was mentioned, and as you mentioned, wisely, right, the whole double pane, like who would

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 even make that kind of specification anymore? So that's one thing I'd be curious if the

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 homeowners would be willing to share a little of their research. I think it would be cool

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 to create like a catalog or something of like, here's some things that have been done before

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 and what they look like, right? Because to me, appearance-wise, it looks pretty consistent,

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 but I understand that the chair's concerns about, you know, trying to maintain some clarity

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 in terms of expectations. Well, we've gone through the years that I've

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 been here that, and we've had presentations on what keeps a structure in a historic realm

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 are keeping them wooden, keeping the windows wooden. And we have found that is very pricey.

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 I mean, like if it's like, okay, no one would do that. And so we kind of bend it a little

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 bit. And again, we have vinyl and aluminum, but I'm going to ask, do we have anywhere

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 else on this that has fiberglass anywhere? That's the only question.

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 So I did grab the window specs from the applicant and that's being passed around, which talks

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 a little bit more, but fiberglass is considered to be better than vinyl at this point.

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 And what do you mean better? In terms of expansion, it won't expand.

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 So when it gets heated, when vinyl gets heated, so when it gets heated, it'll expand.

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 If it gets cold, it will condense. So it doesn't have as much of an expansion,

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 which means it won't damage the brick. So that's the thing.

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 As these materials come out, we're learning new science, we're learning new facts.

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 So you'll see that in the backup packet. But so more windows are starting to look into

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 fiberglass materials. And I think too, my other concern, not concern,

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 but my thought was in the COA, it was marked like kind. And to me, it's not like kind.

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 It's totally different. Like kind would be wooden with double pane instead of a single

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 pane. To me, that's a like kind. But when you go from wooden to whatever else it is,

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 it's not like kind. It's different. It's new. It's something totally different.

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 That was the only other concern.

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 I guess I have a question about, and I'm still learning, so I have to ask lots of

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 questions, but. That's what we're here for.

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 Angie, you say, do we have a need for parameters for our standards?

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 Right. I'm assuming since Courtney, you started out saying this is compliant with

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 Secretary of Interior, etc. I guess I would have assumed hearing that that that's

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 what we use, that those are the standards that we use. Is that the case?

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 Yes, that's correct. We use the Secretary of Interior standards along due to the

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 fact that this is an historic district. We also use those parameters as well.

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 The Secretary of Interior standards. You all for the training that we had, we

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 always look to do preservation first. Also, we take into the economics of it.

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 We take into the material. Also, we work with the property owner and we can't

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 force someone to do preservation to an extent. And so then we look at the best

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 next thing, which is rehabilitation. So that's why this was reviewed under

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 rehabilitation. Well, and that's what I was having just heard that 10 days ago.

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 Do we need our own standards? Are we going by that? That's kind of what I

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 understood from the training that that's what we based it on. So, and I guess

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 rehabilitation is different. So if this was rehabilitation, then that's different.

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 Maybe the standards would be different. So that's, I guess, Angie, is my question.

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 Is that something we need? Because I don't understand why.

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 On this commission, it's been debated a lot. And we didn't come up with, hey,

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 these are what we're going to adopt, which is the Secretary of State, and we

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 kind of relied on that. My whole thing with that is if we're going to say, yeah,

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 we're going to go with Secretary of Standards, that I'm okay. They need new

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 windows. That's a given. And what they put around it, we don't have a picture of

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 a house with the fiberglass. Does that make sense? I can see vinyl. I can see

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 aluminum. I can't see fiberglass. I see wooden. But do we have anywhere on there

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 that already has fiberglass? Or is this the first one for that? This is the first

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 one that I reviewed in the last four years. Okay. But that's not to say that

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 there's not fiberglass that already exists on the West Oak. True. That's honest

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 truth. That's true. And I mean, as we're getting new materials, we, you know, I

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 think we have to look at what those are. The picture that you had of the

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 fiberglass? Yes. Oh, well, the fiberglass photo is in there. What is that? This is

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 the storm windows that currently exist on the outside of the existing windows on

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 the property. And then I was just showing the interior. Okay. So that is the

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 exterior. Yes, this is the exterior. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Gotcha. So the storm

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 windows are in place. So those are the storm windows that you see there. Okay.

163
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:30,240
 Gotcha. Gotcha. And I understand they're also going to possibly be able to open

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 the windows. Yes. They'll be able to actually open the windows for the first

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 time in 40 plus years. I have the same. Hanging shut for five or many years.

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 Hand open all. Paper thin. And I am going to, are we ready for a motion? Well, I

167
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 just, I was going to give them a chance to look and see. And then Cameron,

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 anything else you wanted to add? No, I do not have anything else to add. If you

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 all have any questions about the material package with specs right there,

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 I'm sure the applicant would be more than happy to answer any questions that

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 come from that, but I do not have anything else to add. Thank you. I'm going

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 to ask the applicants anything that you wanted to add, maybe that you could help

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 us with on the different types. Sure. Yeah. So we did a lot of research and we

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 interviewed three different companies. Um, we had the options of billing with

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 vinyl, which is the cheapest, um, right off the top. Most historic districts

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 don't allow vinyl. Um, if there's some here, perhaps they got approved or

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 perhaps they were just installed anyway. Fiberglass has been around since the

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 1940s. It's been used as window frame since then. The fact that there's none in

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 any of the pictures we're seeing is it's not a new material. It's been in use.

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 Fiberglass also, as we found out, is the only material that can be painted.

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 Vinyl windows can't be painted. Aluminum windows can't be painted. So the color

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 that we're going with is going to essentially match the storm windows that

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 are there now. So it won't change the look. It will be a dark contrasting color

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 against the lighter gray and the white brick. Um, the other things are the, um,

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 as Cameron kind of alluded to, the fiberglass is structurally better. Um,

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 wood rots. Um, you can't get currently wood windows like the old wood windows.

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 The current wood windows have aluminum cladding over it. So what you see from

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 the street is aluminum, not wood. Um, aluminum is a little bit cheaper if you

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 will. Um, the hierarchy of windows kind of goes with wood with the aluminum

190
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 cladding, the fiberglass that we're getting, vinyl, and then there's some

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 other materials that are also used. So we're at the upper end of what you can

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 get. And it looks the most like wood because the fiberglass is impregnated

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 with a texture of wood and it can be painted again, just like the wood windows.

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 And none of the others can. Um, the only currently made wood windows are the

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 ones that have aluminum cladding and that's just to protect the wood from

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 rotting and the aluminum can't be painted. I mean, paint doesn't stick to

197
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 aluminum. So whatever the color is, it's going to be a more modern look than a

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 historic look unless, I mean, this, I mean, we could have gone with another one. Um,

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 we'd gone with vinyl, it'd save us about $30,000. But, um, we opted to go with

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 something that we thought would look the best and be the most historic like

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 because the option to replace it, like for like, really doesn't exist anymore

202
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 unless you have them each one custom made. And these, each window is running

203
00:19:53,240 --> 00:20:00,240
 between $2,000 and $4,000. So 25 windows, it's a big project. Vinyl would have

204
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,240
 saved us, you know, we could have done $400, $500 vinyl windows. We didn't want

205
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,240
 to do that, so. It sounds like it's a better option, fiberglass is a better

206
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:14,240
 option. It's supposed to be the best that you can get longevity wise. The wood

207
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,240
 windows are still a little bit more expensive, but then that's because they're

208
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,240
 a little bit more complicated to make with the metal over them. But the

209
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,240
 fiberglass windows have been around for a long, long time. Thank you for

210
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:33,240
 clearing that up. You're welcome. And the storm windows that are there, what are

211
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:39,240
 they made of? Those are aluminum. Those are aluminum? Yes. They were there before

212
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,240
 the historic commission even existed. Right. And you're not replacing those?

213
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,240
 We're not going to keep them. No, they will come off because the new windows

214
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,240
 will be double pane insulated. Oh, so you don't need them at all?

215
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:59,240
 Right. But the windows that are behind them right now will look just

216
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,240
 essentially like that. So the look from the street won't look any different

217
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,240
 than it has in the last 70 years or 60 years.

218
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:18,240
 Do you know when I come with my magnifying glass? You are welcome to come do that.

219
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,240
 So we all learned a lot there. We did. Thank you. The chances are there are a lot of

220
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,240
 fiberglass windows that we see all the time and we don't know them. And we don't

221
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,240
 know them at all. Yeah. And there will be a lot of windows of something else.

222
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,240
 Council. Years in the future. I move approval of this request. Thank you.

223
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,240
 All right. All righty. We have a motion in a second. All right. All in favor,

224
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:46,240
 raise your hand. Motion carries. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

225
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,240
 Good luck on your continued work. Thank you. There's always something.

226
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:58,240
 Always. That's always true. In some way, thank you. I'll be in touch tomorrow.

227
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,240
 Okay. And y'all can stick around if you want to. I'm kind of curious about the

228
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:10,240
 next one, but I think we're going to have all right. Item 3C, number HLC 25-009.

229
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,240
 It's to hold a discussion and get staff direction regarding the current

230
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,240
 historic tax exempt program and potential program changes to better encourage

231
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:26,240
 the designation and/or preservation of historic properties. And I really like

232
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:33,240
 that we just learned something about the fiberglass. I think it's great. That's

233
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,240
 why I learned something too. Tell me what you're looking at, what you're thinking

234
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:42,240
 is. I don't know, Cameron probably goes through that just a matter of, you know,

235
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,240
 occupation. It helps me to imagine a little more about, yeah, because they

236
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,240
 come up with new things all the time. Okay. So I'm going to be presenting from

237
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:59,240
 here so we can have a good discussion. Okay. So we're going back in time a

238
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:06,240
 little bit. So on July 8th of 2024, staff at that time sought direction for

239
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:14,240
 these two questions. We wanted to look at should our design historic science tax

240
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:20,240
 exemption program be expanded to include other eligible properties? And then the

241
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,240
 second question was should there be additional actions that the commission

242
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,240
 would like to take to encourage property owners to designate and preserve their

243
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,240
 properties? So we had a large discussion at that time regarding those two

244
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,240
 questions. And during that, we ended up talking about our 2019 historic

245
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,240
 preservation plan, specifically looking at our goal number two and our

246
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:50,240
 recommendations 2.1 and 2.2. So recommendation, as a reminder, 2.1 was

247
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,240
 if you all wanted to broaden the tax exemption eligibility criteria, which in

248
00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,240
 this case specifically means including contributing properties. Then you all

249
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,240
 discussed recommendation 2.2, which was looking to change the current tax

250
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,240
 exemption program that we currently have for individual locally designated

251
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:16,240
 properties. So just wanted to provide a little bit of background. So at that

252
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:22,240
 time, staff was directed by the commission to not move forward with

253
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,240
 recommendation 2.1. There was discussion, but ultimately it was decided that the

254
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:32,240
 program should not be expanded to include contributing properties. However,

255
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:39,240
 staff was told to move forward with changing our current tax exemption

256
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:45,240
 program for individual locally designated properties and directed staff

257
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:56,240
 at that time to develop options. So the topic of discussion is before I bring

258
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,240
 forward options to you all to present, I wanted to confirm these two

259
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:08,240
 recommendations. So as I stated, at that meeting, staff was told not to move

260
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,240
 forward with recommendation 2.1. So that is not expanding the program to include

261
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:20,240
 contributing properties. And I wanted to show a visual of our current historic

262
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:27,240
 districts. So West Oak Area Historic District, you can see it's outlined

263
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,240
 there in pink. What staff is being directed to do is only include the two

264
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:41,240
 properties out of 78 contributing properties in this historic district. So

265
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:48,240
 hold on. So then looking at Belle Avenue Historic District and Oak Hickory

266
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:56,240
 Historic District. For Belle Avenue Historic District, there are 29

267
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,240
 contributing properties. And based off that direction, we would only be focused

268
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:09,240
 on two of those 29. And then looking at Oak Hickory Historic District, we have a

269
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:16,240
 total of 60 contributing properties, but we would only be focused on 20 of those.

270
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:23,240
 Yes, Chair. Go ahead. Can I restate what I believe you're saying to make sure

271
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:32,240
 that I get it? So we're discussing expanding our incentives locally

272
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:38,240
 through two different possible avenues, potentially both. Could we expand it in

273
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,240
 both directions or does it have to be 2.1 or 2.2? They're two separate items.

274
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:55,240
 So we could do both. So these are our historic districts that to be

275
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,240
 considered historic districts, there have to be more than 50% of the properties

276
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:05,240
 contributing to that, right? So they've already qualified, the district is there,

277
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:12,240
 and we're giving you the direction to not incentivize all of them.

278
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,240
 Yes, based off the conversation on July 8th, staff was informed to all three of

279
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,240
 the districts. So we're missing out on 167 contributing properties.

280
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:30,240
 Yeah, I don't remember that. I don't either. So here's what I, and my, and again,

281
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:36,240
 we're talking, when was that? July? July. Okay, it was hot. So I'm going to be

282
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,240
 able to like just say, you know what, it was hot. Maybe I missed a few things

283
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,240
 because I was in here just drinking in the A/C. But one of the things that I

284
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,240
 recall in my thought process, which I'm looking at this as this is being

285
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:59,240
 presented and going and questioning that heat stroke, was that this would be by

286
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,240
 focusing instead on the designated rather than contributing, we'd be encouraging

287
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:12,240
 more people to be doing designated, right? So and, but now I'm really questioning

288
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:20,240
 that pretty hard. Because yeah, there's only two.

289
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,240
 Two and then 20 in the okay great historic district and then two involved.

290
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,240
 Yeah, okay. Because now I'm flipping around and being like, well, if we get the

291
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,240
 contributing to participate for this, then maybe they would become.

292
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:42,240
 I'm liking their key. Yes. On the Bell Avenue, the green. That's on the bottom.

293
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:52,240
 Isn't that the T.W.U. house? No. She's pretty sure. You're pretty sure it is?

294
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:58,240
 It's next door to me. It's a T.W.U. house. They don't pay taxes anyway. So I don't

295
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:08,240
 think that I don't know. I'll show you. That's my house. That's T.W.U. That's the

296
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,240
 corner. There's no other houses there. That's the T.W.U. house. Okay. So I don't

297
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:28,240
 understand because I don't get that. Well, they're in a different class. Well, I guess.

298
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,240
 Well, they're designated, but not necessarily having applied for an exemption. Correct.

299
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,240
 Yes. So these are not properties that are currently receiving the historic tax

300
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,240
 exemption. These are properties that are just locally designated that could apply.

301
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,240
 But if it's a T.W.U. property, they cannot apply. They'd be exempt. Right. So

302
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:55,240
 technically we're down to one. We're down to one. So yeah, I'm starting to I'm

303
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:06,240
 starting to question July Sean right now. I agree. I think we have to do something

304
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:17,240
 to incentivize people. Yeah, I'm kind of uncomfortable with saying include all of

305
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:25,240
 those things because then I don't think there's as much incentive to go for the

306
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:32,240
 total designation because they're getting benefit without it. And so we might benefit

307
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:39,240
 for a while and probably just disappear. I think some of the options Cameron

308
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,240
 presented previously from some of the other cities, it could be if you are

309
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:50,240
 individually locally designated, your exemption percentage is higher. So it

310
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,240
 could be a range, right? If you if you're just contributing, you may not get the

311
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,240
 full 100 percent of whatever you all decided to do. It may be at 50 percent or

312
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,240
 75 percent or whatever it is. So that so that may encourage them. Oh, let me go

313
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,240
 ahead and get local designated first so that I can get the full benefit versus

314
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:14,240
 just a partial benefit. So the people that, for example, that were just here,

315
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,240
 if their house is not locally designated, they what we're saying by this, I'm going

316
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,240
 to make sure I understand. Understood. So if they came back for that, we they

317
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,240
 wouldn't qualify. If they came back for the tax assumption and they weren't

318
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,240
 locally designated correct, they would not qualify as currently directed by the

319
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:39,240
 commission. That's what I think. I don't think that's what I meant. Well, it's

320
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,240
 giving me I feel like because I remember the discussion of the sliding scale

321
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,240
 because that's that was that was something we talked about. Look, we need

322
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:53,240
 to figure out a way to make this more affordable as an entry program, which

323
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,240
 which I'm in favor of. So thinking about using that type of tactic and include

324
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,240
 go ahead and include the ones that are contributing. But the idea is how to

325
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,240
 incentivize getting them designated. Right. I mean, because at the end of the day,

326
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,240
 that offers more protections, more, et cetera, et cetera. But it also might, in

327
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,240
 their view, involve more hassle and more. Right. They've got to jump through

328
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:23,240
 hoops and fill out forms, and that's never an exciting pitch. That's just

329
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:30,240
 reminding them that. But I'm not sure that giving them credit when they are not

330
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:38,240
 designated incentivizes anybody to go ahead and be designated. Sure, I guess that's

331
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:44,240
 possible. I agree. And then I think about that they're in a historic district

332
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:52,240
 already, so they've been labeled. They don't mind being unlabeled if somebody

333
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,240
 comes along and offers them enough money and they bulldoze the house and put some,

334
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,240
 you know, that mansions are really. Are we going to say we're not going to have

335
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,240
 jurisdiction over those anymore and we're going to open them up to do what

336
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,240
 they want and only those particular ones have to come before this commission? I

337
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,240
 thought I'm just saying, is that what we're, because otherwise what is the

338
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:22,240
 incentive? Does that make sense? Well, I just don't think you can give them an

339
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:28,240
 incentive without having some restriction on that property. So I did just want to

340
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,240
 jump in. So these properties that are currently in these historic districts,

341
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,240
 they do have restrictions on them. They have design standards that are

342
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,240
 attached, as we saw with the applicants earlier, as well as the Secretary of

343
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,240
 Interior standards. So there are restrictions that come with it. They're

344
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:50,240
 just not receiving the additional opportunity to apply for tax exemptions.

345
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,240
 So the standards that they're qualified to be a contributing property, they're

346
00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,240
 essentially already eligible. They're maintaining the same standard to be

347
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,240
 locally designated. They just haven't done that yet. Correct. They probably

348
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:12,240
 don't want it on their property. Or yeah, or they're kind of doing what they want

349
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:20,240
 not to worry about the standards. But that's why attaching some incentive to

350
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:24,240
 it I think would increase the likelihood that they would then, for the tax

351
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:30,240
 incentive, to participate in that and then that might open opportunities to

352
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:34,240
 creating more designated property.

353
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:51,240
 And the way we have it now, any property in these historic districts are eligible

354
00:34:51,240 --> 00:35:00,240
 for the tax. Any green property. Only a green property. Yes, only

355
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:06,240
 individually, individual, locally designated properties are eligible. That's why we're talking about expanding.

356
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:11,240
 That's what I'm talking about. Whether you include it or exclude it. Right, so just to go back

357
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:16,240
 to the background, at that time, Commission directed staff to not move forward with

358
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:20,240
 eligible properties. So not expanding the program to include contributing

359
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:25,240
 properties. But staff was directed of supporting to change our current tax

360
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:30,240
 sector program for designated historic sites, for individual, locally designated

361
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:37,240
 properties, and directed me to start looking at options. But before I present those

362
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,240
 options, I wanted to reconfirm that that was the direction from the Commission

363
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:47,240
 since it has been over six months. I can either confirm or deny 100 percent like

364
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:52,240
 accuracy. I'm in a stroke right now but let's see what you got.

365
00:35:52,240 --> 00:36:05,240
 So, were you three the only ones here? I was playing the Hawaii the next morning.

366
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:15,240
 I remember looking at the cities and comparing them and what the other cities did.

367
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:25,240
 How many of us were here though? I don't even want to raise my hand. I think it was only

368
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:33,240
 four or five. So we're in a Hawaiian shirt by the way? Probably. I think you have it in your car.

369
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:49,240
 So right now, when the Jets replace their windows, they don't qualify for any tax

370
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:58,240
 incentive? No, not unless they're individually, locally designated. So a couple of

371
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:08,240
 months ago, we had a house on Willowood that we approved tax incentives for. So that

372
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:15,240
 house was locally designated? Correct. That's what the green ones on the map are

373
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:19,240
 designating. The ones that already have received the designation and then the tax

374
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:28,240
 incentive is on top of it. So I know somebody I think over on the side asked, so just like

375
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:33,240
 the house that folks here, they have to get permission to change because they live in

376
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:39,240
 the historic district, but they don't get any benefit out of that. They still have

377
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:44,240
 restrictions. They're not locally designated. Right, they wouldn't have the additional

378
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:54,240
 incentives. Is that incentive only available on improvements? It's improvements and/or

379
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:59,240
 restoration to the property. So if they're just in the neighborhood, they don't do

380
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:15,240
 anything and then lay down all the tax. $10,000 every 10 years. Do we ever have

381
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:26,240
 somebody in one of the districts make an improvement without coming here? More than

382
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:39,240
 one to know. And do we penalize them? What happens when that happens? We do not have

383
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:43,240
 a code enforcement officer that is dedicated specifically to our historic

384
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:48,240
 landmarks or our historic districts. Well, I think the people who do it right and

385
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:54,240
 come to us, whether they're locally designated or not, they should be rewarded

386
00:38:54,240 --> 00:39:01,240
 for wanting to do it right and get the approval. And create an incentive. So when

387
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:06,240
 they tell other people, I got this right, and if I keep doing projects and go for

388
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,240
 designation, I'm going to get more. That's going to be better at advertising than

389
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:16,240
 anything. I think so too. I think that's because it's just to add on to what

390
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:21,240
 you're, Mr. Chairman, what you were saying is that currently as the tax

391
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:26,240
 exemption stands, a certificate of appropriateness and or building permit is

392
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:32,240
 required. So a COA, if they do exterior work, they have to provide me with that

393
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,240
 approval letter before they even can come to the board. So if they have said,

394
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:42,240
 Oh, I've done this work. I here's my invoices and they don't have a COA letter.

395
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,240
 I don't even bring it to you all because they're automatically exempt from

396
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:51,240
 applying for the program because that is a requirement, a COA and/or building permit.

397
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,240
 It has to be submitted before they complete it. Correct. And that is a condition

398
00:39:55,240 --> 00:40:00,240
 of being eligible. So, you know, hindsight being 20/20, et cetera, et cetera.

399
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:05,240
 Bishop, do you have anything to add? Well, I think I'm sort of thinking about

400
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:13,240
 what ultimately the goals here are. And if the goal is as many designations as

401
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:18,240
 possible, okay. But if the goal is as much preservation as possible,

402
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:25,240
 then it seems like the more the more people that are incentivized to preserve

403
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:30,240
 the better, whether they're locally designated or not, unless the more local

404
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,240
 designations like is our goal, in which case we would want to withhold that

405
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:42,240
 incentive until they're wanting to take that route. But it seems like the

406
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:47,240
 standards are there. And if the goal is preservation, then the more people who

407
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:52,240
 are incentivized to do it appropriately and with the proper materials,

408
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:56,240
 it seems like we wouldn't want to necessarily withhold that. And maybe there is

409
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:03,240
 that, you know, scale of if you're locally designated, you're eligible for the

410
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:07,240
 full 100 and if you're not, then you're not. But either way, you're incentivizing

411
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:12,240
 the preservation. Yeah, at least they participate, right? They participate in

412
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:20,240
 that kind of preservation in a positive way. So point of order, if I ask the

413
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:26,240
 chair, do I ask? So I don't know if we're ready, if we're in a discussion and not

414
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,240
 proposing them, before we see your plan, or do we go ahead and see your plan? And

415
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:34,240
 then we go back and say, did I understand you correctly? I might be looking to be

416
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:39,240
 like, hey, can I say maybe switch that first one and maybe go back and maybe

417
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:44,240
 expand to include? So that's just a rubber turtle's point of order. Do I bring

418
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:50,240
 that up before you show us what you got? What we're doing right now is we're

419
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:55,240
 giving direction. So I think it might be appropriate subject to chair and

420
00:41:55,240 --> 00:42:00,240
 Cameron's discretion to take, you know, temperature point, do temperature checks

421
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:04,240
 at various points to make sure we all agree what we have consensus on. But

422
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:10,240
 we're not taking formal action here. Yes. So there doesn't need to be. So it's

423
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,240
 just discussion. Yeah, it's just discussion. There's no action happening. Yeah,

424
00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:23,240
 it's groovy. Groovy. I agree with Mr. Sherman and Commissioner Berger on what

425
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:28,240
 is the goal. And in my mind, for this commission, it's for preservation and

426
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:34,240
 restoration because we want the history to stay in the city of Denton and what

427
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:40,240
 it is. And in order to do that, it takes money and it takes money off the owner

428
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:47,240
 to do that. And, you know, I think that we would like to get more historic

429
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:55,240
 designations on top of that. I wouldn't want to take the whole tax incentive

430
00:42:55,240 --> 00:43:01,240
 away from those historic districts for that purpose. That maybe if we go through

431
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:08,240
 a scale, maybe a tiered system where you're in a historic district, they're

432
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:14,240
 there and they have to abide by the commission and what their district

433
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:20,240
 bylaws and those things are, I think, for preservation because people can choose

434
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:26,240
 to not do anything. And thank goodness we saw that you talked about the

435
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:31,240
 K through that house probably could have been demolished and they took it and

436
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:36,240
 see what they did with it. And that was a great thing. And they had incentive

437
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:43,240
 with that, but they did it correctly. And that was a success story, I think. And

438
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:46,240
 I'd like to see that with some other properties. Well, this is what I was

439
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,240
 hoping would be the outcome of creating the tiered system that we had discussed

440
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:54,240
 was to create a like, hey, you've done a whole project. Congratulations. You get

441
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:58,240
 that. And then, oh, you got a second project you're bringing. Well, hold on.

442
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:03,240
 You get that, right? And then, so what happens is that incentivizes the

443
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:10,240
 continued participation, the kind of either, you know, restoring or even maybe

444
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:17,240
 even rehabilitating parts of it, right? Whatever of those four. Do you mean, so

445
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:23,240
 they have to be based on different projects or here's a project, here's what

446
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:29,240
 I did because I'm not a designation, but I'm in a district, I get this amount.

447
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:35,240
 But if I choose to go to historic designation, I would get a higher one. It

448
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,240
 is a tier. It's still a tier. But maybe I don't have to do another project. Maybe

449
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,240
 you're going to get this. If you go to the designation project, then we're going to

450
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,240
 give you a different amount. Ah, so we're talking about the Space Mountain Fastpass.

451
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:54,240
 Yes. Okay. Got it. How about if I skip the three projects and just go right to...

452
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:59,240
 But it is the incentive for designation. I mean, there still is an incentive.

453
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:06,240
 Are you suggesting that a tier system would, like, if you are spending $10,000

454
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:13,240
 every 10 years, it's this much, but if you're, you know, doing windows and your

455
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:19,240
 plumbing, you know, whatever it is to make it that the tier is based on how much

456
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:24,240
 you're investing in the preservation or did I misunderstand? That was the detail

457
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,240
 we were going to work out that has yet to be kind of figured is how we want to

458
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:32,240
 incentivize that. Some of the prior discussion had talked about, well, what

459
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:39,240
 about for lower income? And let's say they can do the project to do, like, let's

460
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:45,240
 say $5,000 project, but then they're going to have to pay that off for several

461
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:51,240
 years, right? I mean, there's lots of different...or to convince a landlord to

462
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:58,240
 do it a certain way, right? Right. See? But no, in order to create something

463
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:05,240
 that's more entry-friendly, I mean, 10,000, 10 years, what about, like, five

464
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:11,240
 and five years? Just something to try to create a broader kind of either entry

465
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:16,240
 point, but then I also appreciated the idea of, like, well, you can afford it,

466
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:22,240
 just jump to designation and say, "I want a full enchilada menu, please," and on

467
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:27,240
 Space Mountain. So that's kind of where we had been discussing, and I think

468
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:34,240
 that's why I got turned around about what we had thought we had

469
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:39,240
 recommended was that in order to push designation, but to participate, right?

470
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:44,240
 Like, should there be some type of entry, right? Whereas seeing the number of

471
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:51,240
 properties in it...this is the entry plan. This is something to get them

472
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,240
 involved and aware, build awareness, build goodwill, and then because, like,

473
00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:00,240
 this project, if Cameron gets to call him up in a couple of months and say, "Hey,

474
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:05,240
 by the way, you know, it qualifies now," because that's why he teased when he

475
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:08,240
 went out and wrecked it. He was like, "I kind of want to stick around and listen

476
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:13,240
 to the next part," but I think it would get attention going in the right

477
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:17,240
 direction, and better word of mouth, honestly, which I think we need.

478
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:24,240
 Have we ever just done any kind of polling in those districts to see why

479
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:38,240
 people choose not to? Because I think you just ask and see what they're saying.

480
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:45,240
 I don't think it's been asked. I can tell you, some of my neighbors, they don't

481
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:50,240
 own the homes. They rent them.

482
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:59,240
 And to Professor Treat's position here, the landlords, the owners, it's a rental

483
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:02,240
 property, and they do the bare minimum.

484
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:06,240
 And treat it. There we go.

485
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,240
 That, too. So I'm going to redirect this back to the discussion.

486
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:22,240
 Well, but if it's rental property and the landlord's not interested, why are

487
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:27,240
 we interested in giving him or her an incentive?

488
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:32,240
 The only way we would give the incentive is if they did the work, and they had

489
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:33,240
 the work done.

490
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:34,240
 And came to us first.

491
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:39,240
 And came to us first, and they did the necessary preservation or the

492
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:44,240
 restoration of the property, which is, I would like to see on a number of

493
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,240
 properties in every historic district that we have.

494
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:52,240
 And I mean, to me, the goal would be to have it out there like a carrot, get

495
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:56,240
 them to do it, and the benefit would be that they are preserving the property.

496
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,240
 And say, wait, tell me more.

497
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:03,240
 They're not getting an incentive just for owning a home there.

498
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:07,240
 They've got to do something that we approve.

499
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:11,240
 But they're already getting income, which is what they want.

500
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:13,240
 Sure.

501
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:18,240
 And I would say the chances are we won't get very many of these requests from

502
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:19,240
 landlords.

503
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:24,240
 But it doesn't hurt to -- I mean, I don't think it's a problem to have the

504
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,240
 incentive available.

505
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:32,240
 I do.

506
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,240
 Does that help?

507
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:39,240
 So I'm leaning towards -- no, it's great discussion.

508
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:44,240
 So kind of taking everything in, it seems that the majority of the

509
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:49,240
 commission is leaning towards including contributing properties from local

510
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:54,240
 historic districts as part of these tax assumption options that I will be

511
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,240
 bringing forward.

512
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:57,240
 Okay.

513
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:58,240
 Perfect.

514
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:04,240
 Any other discussion?

515
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,240
 Okay.

516
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:07,240
 All right.

517
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:08,240
 Are we ready to move on?

518
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:09,240
 Nope.

519
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,240
 Oh, we need to see what you have.

520
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:14,240
 Oh, no, I don't have options.

521
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:16,240
 We're not presenting options tonight.

522
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:20,240
 I needed confirmation before I brought the options forward.

523
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:27,240
 So just reiterating, you all told staff or directed staff to expand our

524
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:31,240
 current designate historic sites tax assumption program for locally

525
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,240
 designated properties only.

526
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:36,240
 So I'm just highlighting the ones that are there.

527
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:41,240
 But based off our conversation just now, I'm going to change it that we're

528
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:45,240
 going to be looking at adding contributing properties to those list of

529
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:50,240
 options, tax assumption options that I'm bringing forward to you all.

530
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:53,240
 So we're good?

531
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:54,240
 We're good.

532
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,240
 Okay.

533
00:50:57,240 --> 00:50:58,240
 Well, then we're done.

534
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,240
 Okay.

535
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:00,240
 Now we're done.

536
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:01,240
 Okay.

537
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:02,240
 All right.

538
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:03,240
 Next item.

539
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,240
 4C, number HLC 25-004.

540
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:10,240
 Tell the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission project

541
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:11,240
 matrix.

542
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:12,240
 Matrix.

543
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:13,240
 Matrix.

544
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:15,240
 Chair, did you want to call the matrix?

545
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,240
 Or 003?

546
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:21,240
 I think I might have got her blood clogged on her.

547
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:24,240
 Okay, sorry.

548
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:27,240
 Well, let's go to 003.

549
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:31,240
 Hold the discussion to give staff direction on Historic Landmark Commission

550
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:38,240
 requests for local historic designation of eligible historic properties.

551
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:39,240
 Do you want to have any?

552
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:40,240
 You do?

553
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:41,240
 I do.

554
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,240
 Okay.

555
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:43,240
 Let's hear it.

556
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:44,240
 I am just --

557
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,240
 Would you like me to type in the address?

558
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:47,240
 Yeah.

559
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:49,240
 Or you could pull up your Instagram.

560
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:54,240
 We'll preserve that in Instagram.

561
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,240
 It's 120 East Oak Street.

562
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:00,240
 It is the Stockard Building.

563
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:04,240
 I'm going to read from I believe what Cameron would have written.

564
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,240
 This is a building I have admired for a really long time.

565
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:08,240
 It's right downtown.

566
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,240
 You've seen it thousands of times, I'm sure.

567
00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:14,240
 It's on Oak and Austin.

568
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:16,240
 Is that what that cross section is?

569
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:18,240
 Yes.

570
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,240
 So this building, the Stockard Building, was designed by a Denton architect,

571
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:29,240
 Roland Laney, for Gerald and Eloise Stockard.

572
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:30,240
 Okay.

573
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,240
 Well, let me bring it up, but keep talking.

574
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:36,240
 I can show the pictures.

575
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,240
 It is this building here.

576
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:46,240
 So Oak Street is here and Austin Street is here, and it has got the basket weave.

577
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:48,240
 And it's mid-century building.

578
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,240
 It's really lovely.

579
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:51,240
 It was --

580
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:52,240
 Oh, yeah.

581
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:53,240
 There we go.

582
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:55,240
 Yes.

583
00:52:55,240 --> 00:53:00,240
 It is currently, from what Denton, the Appraisal District shows,

584
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,240
 it is still owned by the Stockard family.

585
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:05,240
 Oh, it's the Tozo.

586
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:06,240
 Yeah.

587
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:07,240
 Yeah.

588
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,240
 That's the ever-filling Tozo.

589
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:10,240
 Yes.

590
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:16,240
 It was built for Gerald Edgar Stockard.

591
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:18,240
 There was a law office.

592
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,240
 He was the county attorney.

593
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:27,240
 He ran for county attorney, and he was county judge.

594
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:31,240
 I think it's a beautiful building worth preserving.

595
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:36,240
 Not only was he -- was the owner an important person in Denton,

596
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:39,240
 but it was designed by a local architect.

597
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:52,240
 It is -- what -- there was -- oh, it was in -- 60 -- when was it built?

598
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,240
 It's definitely --

599
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:54,240
 '59.

600
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:55,240
 '59.

601
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:56,240
 It was built in '59.

602
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:57,240
 Pretty groovy.

603
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:58,240
 Yeah.

604
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:01,240
 So that's my recommendation.

605
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:04,240
 When did you take those pictures?

606
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:05,240
 Because they don't have the --

607
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:07,240
 That is Google Images.

608
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:09,240
 There.

609
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:16,240
 And this is -- this is what I have pulled up is from the Preserved Denton Instagram that --

610
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,240
 Much more glamorous shot.

611
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:19,240
 Yes.

612
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:20,240
 Yes.

613
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:22,240
 And if you have it, I encourage you to look.

614
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:27,240
 Because there's -- Cameron captured some really excellent mid-century details in the railing

615
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:31,240
 and in that beautiful basket weave concrete poor situation.

616
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:35,240
 I think the new parking designs, 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

617
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,240
 they're there to park there.

618
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:39,240
 I think they need to go in there, too.

619
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:41,240
 Because that's for me.

620
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:44,240
 That's why you paid to get a parking permit.

621
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,240
 Yes.

622
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:49,240
 All right.

623
00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:50,240
 Do we all agree?

624
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:51,240
 Do we have an agreement to add this one?

625
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:52,240
 Yes.

626
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:53,240
 Oh, yes.

627
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:54,240
 Yes.

628
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,240
 I'm checking.

629
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,240
 Do we need one?

630
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:57,240
 No.

631
00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:58,240
 You got enough?

632
00:54:58,240 --> 00:54:59,240
 Yeah.

633
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:00,240
 Perfect.

634
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:01,240
 Nice.

635
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,240
 Anyone else?

636
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:03,240
 I do.

637
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:04,240
 I'm proud.

638
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:05,240
 Oh, wait.

639
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:06,240
 Do you want me to put up the address?

640
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:07,240
 Yeah.

641
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:08,240
 Let's do it.

642
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,240
 So this is a building that -- so I rent an office space in this building.

643
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:12,240
 Which one is it?

644
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:13,240
 114?

645
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:14,240
 1415.

646
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:15,240
 Oh, okay.

647
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:16,240
 I was very -- yeah.

648
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:21,240
 So my understanding of this building, other than, you know, me renting space in there,

649
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:28,240
 is that it is -- so it was -- I know for sure it was built in 1917.

650
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:34,240
 I don't -- there's some additions that were added to it, and some changes.

651
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:40,240
 What I was told by my landlord, from the person -- that he got this from the person he bought

652
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:45,240
 it from, is that it was a Sears modern home catalog.

653
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:46,240
 No.

654
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:47,240
 I don't know.

655
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:53,240
 So, you know, I was doing -- this is what he was told by Dalton Allen -- if anybody

656
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:58,240
 knows Dalton, he owned the building before he -- you know, Hugh, my office landlord.

657
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,240
 Hugh Coleman is my office landlord.

658
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:01,240
 Okay.

659
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:02,240
 So former county commissioner.

660
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:07,240
 Which makes it historical, so I was like, okay, county commissioner owns the building.

661
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:12,240
 But it needs a little -- it needs a little love, you know, for sure.

662
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:14,240
 But certainly it was built in 1917.

663
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,240
 I would like to know more about the history.

664
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:19,240
 Hugh just doesn't really know, right?

665
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:21,240
 He's just getting what he was told.

666
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:28,240
 I looked through some -- what I could find on the internet from around that time period

667
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,240
 for the catalog.

668
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:33,240
 I didn't see anything that looks quite like that, but there also had been changes.

669
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:37,240
 I mean, I know there was substantial work done in the '80s.

670
00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:40,240
 And I think -- I mean, if you look on the side --

671
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:41,240
 Which side?

672
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:42,240
 The north or south?

673
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:43,240
 I guess that would be south.

674
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:44,240
 Okay.

675
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:45,240
 Let me see if I can get a good view.

676
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:46,240
 It might be harder to see from there.

677
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,240
 I wonder if I can get a different view.

678
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,240
 I wonder if you can get with the alley behind.

679
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:52,240
 I don't know if you can.

680
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:53,240
 There is an alleyway back there.

681
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:57,240
 I don't know if it will --

682
00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:58,240
 Oh, you can?

683
00:56:58,240 --> 00:56:59,240
 Okay.

684
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:00,240
 Okay.

685
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:01,240
 See it?

686
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:02,240
 Oh, look, there's a cat temp in the wall there.

687
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:03,240
 Okay.

688
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:04,240
 Yeah.

689
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:05,240
 So --

690
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:06,240
 Oh, yeah.

691
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:07,240
 Hold on.

692
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:12,240
 So there's Hugh's old truck that was his grandfather's -- or his father's truck.

693
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:16,240
 So those stairs there, that can't be -- I mean, that's certainly not -- I mean, I know that

694
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:17,240
 that stuff's not original.

695
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,240
 Sure.

696
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:25,240
 But I don't know when things were added on or what was added on.

697
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:29,240
 From the inside, it's all a whole building that's just wood.

698
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:30,240
 Cool.

699
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:31,240
 And --

700
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:32,240
 I love the front door.

701
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,240
 Did you see that -- the header of the front door?

702
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,240
 And there were two brick -- look like -- maybe there were columns there?

703
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:40,240
 Yeah.

704
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,240
 Yeah, it does look like that.

705
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,240
 The two brick on each side of the front door, which was cool.

706
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,240
 And of course, the trash can.

707
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:49,240
 Yeah.

708
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:50,240
 Right there.

709
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:51,240
 See this brick?

710
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,240
 Maybe there were columns there.

711
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,240
 I know certainly if there were incentives to fix things up.

712
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:58,240
 Right.

713
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:03,240
 That would be something that would be considered by the counselor.

714
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,240
 Yes.

715
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,240
 It's a conflict of interest.

716
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,240
 I'll move out.

717
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,240
 You know what?

718
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:10,240
 He doesn't own it.

719
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,240
 He doesn't own it.

720
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:12,240
 I'll move out.

721
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:17,240
 I'll be happy to move out without him.

722
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,240
 But I think it's a cool building.

723
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,240
 Especially if it's a Sears house, aren't we glad?

724
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,240
 Especially if it's a Sears group.

725
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:26,240
 That is neat.

726
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,240
 And even the one when we were doing that, like next door, too, would be --

727
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:36,240
 Yeah, well, so I'll look to see -- I didn't look on the appraisal district to see my store near those buildings.

728
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:37,240
 That'd be cool.

729
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:38,240
 I mean, I'm sure it's an old house.

730
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:39,240
 Oh, it is.

731
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,240
 Come on.

732
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,240
 I don't even know my neighbors.

733
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,240
 I should go meet them.

734
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,240
 Okay, so we have interest in 1415.

735
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,240
 I have it written down.

736
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,240
 I just want to make sure we have -- yes.

737
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:53,240
 Okay, perfect.

738
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,240
 Is anyone not interested?

739
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:56,240
 Say that's better.

740
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:57,240
 We are.

741
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:58,240
 Yeah.

742
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,240
 Anyone else have one?

743
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:03,240
 Look at that.

744
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:04,240
 Two and one not.

745
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,240
 Yes, I got another one.

746
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,240
 You do?

747
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,240
 Okay.

748
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,240
 So we are -- more of a question of clarification.

749
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,240
 Why don't you go through the training seats and things?

750
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:14,240
 Hold on.

751
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,240
 I've been curious about that.

752
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,240
 I didn't know -- when am I supposed to bring it up?

753
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,240
 Oh, I can literally bring it up in the meetings?

754
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,240
 Well, here we go.

755
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,240
 I'm still disappointed that, you know, Frost has people talk to us.

756
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:26,240
 Well, right.

757
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:30,240
 But let me -- I'm working on that.

758
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,240
 I've had a couple milkshake conversations.

759
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,240
 So hopefully they'll return to me.

760
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,240
 Back to being open revenue business, I'm sorry.

761
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:38,240
 No, no.

762
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,240
 There will never be revenue.

763
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,240
 No, they're way beyond that, my man.

764
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:42,240
 It's like that ship is sailed.

765
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,240
 They're open when they're open.

766
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,240
 So that's why if I see it, I'm going to let go.

767
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:47,240
 Okay, so I'm sorry, the property.

768
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,240
 Yes.

769
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,240
 Use perhaps know it better as Oak Street Draft House.

770
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,240
 It's a 308 East Oak Street.

771
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,240
 Yes.

772
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:56,240
 Okay.

773
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:02,240
 That home, the old Shipley Manor.

774
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,240
 I got into a conversation with them because they recently redid --

775
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,240
 they're putting in some handicap access.

776
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,240
 And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

777
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,240
 You guys know that if you're, like, doing something,

778
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,240
 and the place could use some work.

779
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,240
 They're just about to have their 13th anniversary

780
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,240
 because it was set to be demolished when John Williams bought it.

781
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:29,240
 And so he was able to get it back up and give it a pass code.

782
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,240
 But I'm sorry.

783
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,240
 It is --

784
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,240
 308.

785
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,240
 Yes, 308 East Oak Street.

786
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,240
 So the Oak Street Draft House,

787
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,240
 they're about to have their 13-year anniversary.

788
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:47,240
 And so I was like, you know, wouldn't it be cool if maybe you --

789
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,240
 you're going to do some work to it.

790
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,240
 You're doing work on it.

791
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:54,240
 Wouldn't it be nice to, like, maybe get some hospital incentives on that

792
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,240
 and get it designated?

793
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,240
 And they're curious.

794
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:02,240
 And so because he also has Eastside Draft House,

795
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,240
 which I think might also be potentially significant.

796
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,240
 We can look at that later.

797
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,240
 And Miss Angelina's.

798
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,240
 And Miss Angelina's Draft House, correct.

799
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,240
 Although there's been a lot of stuff.

800
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,240
 But worth looking at, right?

801
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:19,240
 So his interest in old houses, plus putting in money to bring them up.

802
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,240
 I'm like, hold on.

803
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,240
 This is kind of like the sweet spot we're looking for,

804
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,240
 because you would be like a poster boy

805
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,240
 if you really leaned into this program, right?

806
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,240
 So John Williams is just like, oh, I'm away to my next thing.

807
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,240
 But yeah, send him an email.

808
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:35,240
 Send me an email.

809
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,240
 And we'll be together and we'll talk about it.

810
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,240
 So there's that.

811
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,240
 Anyone not interested in 308 East Oak?

812
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,240
 How about, how'd you like that?

813
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,240
 I love that.

814
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:48,240
 That was good.

815
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,240
 That was slick.

816
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,240
 So look at that, three.

817
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,240
 I love it.

818
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:53,240
 I'm so excited.

819
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:54,240
 Okay.

820
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:55,240
 Anyone else?

821
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:56,240
 No.

822
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,240
 I don't want to leave anyone out here.

823
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,240
 Okay.

824
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,240
 All right.

825
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,240
 This is a new precedent, by the way.

826
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,240
 So don't feel that much pressure, because, you know.

827
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,240
 All right.

828
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,240
 How are you doing, Mom?

829
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:11,240
 Okay.

830
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:17,240
 Now we are on 4C, number HLC 25-204.

831
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:22,240
 Hold a discussion regarding that Historic Landmarks Commission Project Matrix.

832
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:23,240
 Yes.

833
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:29,240
 So we have obviously our historic tax exemption discussion.

834
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:36,240
 Once we get our tax exemption discussion in place, we are going to have a focus group with historic property owners.

835
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,240
 Just to kind of walk through that.

836
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,240
 We are planning to have that marketing discussion sometime this spring.

837
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,240
 Just trying to get us through the tax exemption.

838
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,240
 It's a lot when it comes to a meeting.

839
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,240
 So just trying to get through that process.

840
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,240
 I will.

841
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,240
 In regards to the Denton Women's Club, I know that's been an important discussion.

842
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:07,240
 If you all have any specific questions, speaking with legal, staff was guided towards waiting until there's a budget determination.

843
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:13,240
 Because it might be about 10 plus years that we're seeing that Quaker Town Park project come forward, unfortunately.

844
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,240
 So staff was directed.

845
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:24,240
 So staff was directed to put that on hold until there is a budget determination.

846
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:31,240
 And then in terms of, I know this was brought up with the historic district signage and kind of that larger discussion of unification and everything.

847
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:36,240
 That's also going to be brought back in spring of 2025.

848
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,240
 So we have some good things to look forward to.

849
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:43,240
 If you all want to add anything, please feel free to bring it forward right now.

850
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,240
 And I just wanted to remind you all, we do have a short turnaround between meetings.

851
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:55,240
 We do have our next meeting on March 3rd.

852
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:56,240
 All right.

853
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:00,240
 Anything else to add?

854
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,240
 We added enough.

855
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,240
 I think we did.

856
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:04,240
 I think we did.

857
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:05,240
 I think we did.

858
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:06,240
 All right.

859
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,240
 Any other business?

860
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:13,240
 If not, we will adjourn the meeting at 634 PM.

861
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,240
 Thank you.