WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.040 Oh, we didn't know about the meeting. 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:15.040 Oh, alright then. 00:00:15.040 --> 00:00:21.040 Welcome to the meeting at 5.32 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:23.040 Ta-da! 00:00:23.040 --> 00:00:27.040 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:32.040 and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:32.040 --> 00:00:36.040 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:36.040 --> 00:00:41.040 I honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, 00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:46.040 one state, under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:46.040 --> 00:00:50.040 There we go. 00:00:50.040 --> 00:00:58.040 Alrighty, our first order of business after that is to consider approval of the December 16th minutes. 00:00:58.040 --> 00:01:01.040 I motion approval of the December 16th minutes. 00:01:01.040 --> 00:01:02.040 Second? 00:01:02.040 --> 00:01:03.040 I second. 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:04.040 Thank you. 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:08.040 Any discussion, questions? 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:09.040 Call the question. 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.040 All in favor of approving the minutes? 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:12.040 Aye. 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:13.040 Any opposed? 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.040 Any abstain? 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:15.040 Nope. 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:16.040 Can't abstain, I think, in this committee. 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:22.040 Alright, now we elect a Chair and a Vice Chair to the Zoning Board of Adjustment. 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:26.040 I nominate, do I have a motion to nominate or do I nominate? 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:27.040 Nominate. 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:31.040 Okay, I nominate Member Lane as a Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustment. 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:32.040 Thank you very much. 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:33.040 I second. 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.040 Thank you very much. 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.040 Any discussion? 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.040 Thank you. 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.040 Call the question. 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:43.040 All in favor? 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.040 Aye. 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.040 Any opposed? 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:47.040 Any abstain? 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:51.040 And I would like to nominate my Vice Chair, Connor, as to continue as Vice Chair. 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:52.040 Second. 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:53.040 Thank you. 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.040 Alright. 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:55.040 Any discussion? 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:56.040 He's been doing good. 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:57.040 All in favor? 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:58.040 Aye. 00:01:58.040 --> 00:01:59.040 Great. 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:00.040 So have a wonderful year. 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:01.040 And then I think I cycle off. 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:02.040 Connor will fit. 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:03.040 Alright, do we get to cycle off? 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:04.040 Unless you're a holdover. 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:17.040 Unless you're an ultimate, then you live here. 00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:20.040 Yeah, then you would never cycle off. 00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:21.040 It was an ultimate parole. 00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:23.040 Just for asking that question, we're going to make sure you just stay here in this room 00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:24.040 until the next meeting. 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:29.040 Now, we're going to receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the Zoning Board of 00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:33.040 Adjustment composition, procedures, powers, and duties. 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:36.040 Alright, so trying to go through this fairly quickly. 00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:40.040 I know it's not the most lively topic, but since we have new members in a new year, Hillary 00:02:40.040 --> 00:02:44.040 and I thought it would be good an interest to go through briefly kind of what the board's 00:02:44.040 --> 00:02:48.040 function is and answer any questions that you all may have about items that might come 00:02:48.040 --> 00:02:50.040 before you this year. 00:02:50.040 --> 00:02:55.040 So we'll run through just really quickly what is the Board of Adjustment, what's the composition 00:02:55.040 --> 00:02:59.040 of the board, some of the procedures that you all follow that may be unique to other 00:02:59.040 --> 00:03:05.040 boards, and then the powers and duties that fall under you all as the Board of Adjustment 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:08.040 under state law and local code. 00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:13.040 So the ZBA is a body specifically authorized under the Texas Local Government Code to hear 00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:18.040 and decide things relating to the strict application of a city's zoning ordinance, as well as to 00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:21.040 consider appeals to administrative decisions. 00:03:21.040 --> 00:03:25.040 So specifically, if you're interested, I gave you a link in your backup, local government 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:30.040 code, Section 211.008 is where Zoning Board of Adjustment is authorized. 00:03:30.040 --> 00:03:32.040 State law says we have to have at least five members. 00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:34.040 They have to serve two-year terms. 00:03:34.040 --> 00:03:39.040 We are allowed to have alternates because as a quasi-judicial board, it's very important 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:43.040 that items come before you within certain timeframes, so we have to be able to achieve 00:03:43.040 --> 00:03:49.040 quorum, and then it does require that all cases be heard by 75% of the members. 00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:54.040 For us, we have seven regular members in the city of Dentonville, two additional compared 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:58.040 to what state law authorizes, and then we also have three alternate positions for the 00:03:58.040 --> 00:04:02.040 board, so up to ten members to ensure that we can hopefully always get at least six of 00:04:02.040 --> 00:04:04.040 you in a room when we need you. 00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:07.040 So if you know anyone who's interested, you can see we do have a couple of vacancies, 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:12.040 so you can tell your friends on council that we have a couple of vacant spots in our current 00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:14.040 roster. 00:04:14.040 --> 00:04:18.040 So city council, as you all know, does appoint these, and you do serve in staggered two-year 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:20.040 terms. 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.040 District four and the first alternate, is that right? 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:26.040 Yes, these are two vacancies at the moment. 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:28.040 Who appoints the alternates? 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.040 I believe anyone on council can appoint them to the alternate positions. 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:34.040 The places are to the... 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:40.040 Yes, each council member gets their one specific appointee. 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:46.040 So as we noted previously, 75% of you will have to be present to hear an item for us 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:51.040 is six members, because it's based on the seven regular members, not the total of ten. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.040 Similarly, we have to have concurring vote of 75% of you also. 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.040 If there's only six in the room, all six of you have to agree. 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:03.040 If you are going to reverse an administrative decision, decide in favor of something that's 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:08.040 regarded otherwise by our zoning code, or authorize a variance to our zoning code. 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:13.040 We do have to follow the Texas Open Meetings Act, so that's all the basic things like posting 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:19.040 our agendas, providing notice of the meetings, assuring we have quorum. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:24.040 But as I mentioned, you all are quasi-judicial, so some of the things that apply to you all 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:28.040 that may not apply to like the Planning and Zoning Commission or the other boards are 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.040 that you will see that the chair does have to swear in witnesses when they come before 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:32.040 you all. 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.040 That's not something you would see at Planning and Zoning Commission or Historic Landmark 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.040 Commission or some of those other boards. 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:45.040 Your decisions can be appealed to the courts directly, so unlike where P&Z decides something 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.040 and someone disagrees, the code may say, "You can go appeal that to council." 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:52.040 For you all, they're next office court if they want to disagree with something that 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.040 you all decided, and they would have to do that within ten days. 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:56.040 Quick question. 00:05:56.040 --> 00:06:00.040 Could somebody that, I mean I guess that's not necessarily party to this, but is affected 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.040 by it, sue us for a decision? 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.040 You have to have standing, don't you? 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:14.040 So, people who are affected by a project but not like the direct applicant or within the 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:23.040 notice radius can certainly appeal to you all for a determination, like an appeal of 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:29.040 staff determination, and so if they didn't like how that decision went, they could sue, 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:41.040 but whether they could sue in court over what we did for the developer for their own project, 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.040 I don't think they'd have standing. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:44.040 Okay. 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.040 Good to know. 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.040 You know, it's a good question, and we did have one decision some years ago that I'm 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:53.040 curious to know how this would fit into that. 00:06:53.040 --> 00:07:01.040 There was an applicant who wanted to grandfather in a guest well in an apartment complex, and 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:07.040 we voted against that, and that applicant did go to court, and it ended up being there 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.040 was a settlement and all that sort of thing. 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:14.040 Would someone living there be able to, would they have standing? 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:15.040 To do what? 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:16.040 To sue. 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:20.040 You know, let's say we had decided the opposite way, and then somebody living in the apartment 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:24.040 complex didn't like that decision, would they have had standing? 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:26.040 That's an interesting question. 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:34.040 I think, I think they might be able to bring the suit, but I think that the city's defense 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.040 would be that they didn't exhaust their administrative remedies. 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:40.040 They need a counselor first. 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:41.040 Right, okay. 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:42.040 Counselor. 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.040 That's just sort of my knee jerk. 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.040 That seems kind of my thinking. 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:50.040 So they would be better off coming before us, and then that should be... 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:53.040 Yeah, you always start as local as you can. 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.040 Even the other side too, right? 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.040 The other side as well should appeal to us. 00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:58.040 Well, they would have. 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:00.040 That would have been their appeal. 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:05.040 I guess if that's the case, if say, it's like we approve something and then somebody comes 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:10.040 up and says, like, gives us new information that we didn't necessarily have, or brings 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:17.040 the fact that this is an effect on them, and then we agree with them, what does the original 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.040 applicant do in response to that? 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:26.040 They would receive notice of the ZBA matter and we would invite them to come and talk 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:34.040 to us about it, is sort of how I'd handle it from a practicality perspective. 00:08:34.040 --> 00:08:40.040 From what I've seen, it's not going to get that messy, but you know. 00:08:40.040 --> 00:08:41.040 Never know. 00:08:41.040 --> 00:08:42.040 Never know. 00:08:42.040 --> 00:08:44.040 Is it 10 business days or 10 days? 00:08:44.040 --> 00:08:46.040 I believe it's just 10 calendar days. 00:08:46.040 --> 00:08:47.040 I believe so. 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:48.040 That's the difference. 00:08:48.040 --> 00:08:49.040 Yes. 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:50.040 That's the difference. 00:08:50.040 --> 00:08:54.040 Before you advance to the slide, can I do a little reminder of walking quorums? 00:08:54.040 --> 00:08:55.040 Absolutely. 00:08:55.040 --> 00:08:56.040 Okay. 00:08:56.040 --> 00:09:02.040 So another element of the Texas Open Meetings Act, which we are subject to, is that if there's 00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:06.040 less than a quorum, y'all do not discuss public business. 00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:11.040 So that means three of you shouldn't get together and chat. 00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:15.040 I have that backwards. 00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:17.040 Four of you. 00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:20.040 You shouldn't be in a quorum outside of a public meeting. 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:21.040 Right. 00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:27.040 And a walking quorum can happen if three of you meet and one of you emails a fourth member. 00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:28.040 Right. 00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:29.040 No daisy chaining. 00:09:29.040 --> 00:09:30.040 No daisy chaining. 00:09:30.040 --> 00:09:31.040 Right. 00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:32.040 Well said. 00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:40.040 So just a reminder that like one-off conversations, I can't stop you from doing them, but like 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:45.040 a reminder to not daisy chain them because that can be taken together. 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:49.040 You can talk about what you think, but don't talk about what other council members think. 00:09:49.040 --> 00:09:50.040 Yeah. 00:09:50.040 --> 00:09:54.040 I mean, that's certainly a good idea from like a golden rule perspective too. 00:09:54.040 --> 00:10:02.040 Interesting like if we sat here and emailed or texted a missing member and said, "Hey, 00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:04.040 are you on your way?" 00:10:04.040 --> 00:10:06.040 That could be considered. 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:12.040 I mean, thankfully because we're in a quorum, I would say it's okay and especially because 00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:16.040 we're not, it's the kind of business that you're talking about. 00:10:16.040 --> 00:10:23.040 So four of you talking about throwing a birthday party for Kate's dog or something, I don't 00:10:23.040 --> 00:10:24.040 care. 00:10:24.040 --> 00:10:29.040 Just be careful what you discuss in that email or text chain. 00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.040 Yeah. 00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:31.040 Yeah. 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:34.040 So it's just a gentle reminder to be mindful of that. 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:40.040 We have few enough cases and few enough controversial cases that it's not like developers are going 00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:43.040 to be like, "Hey, how are you doing?" 00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:52.040 There's more of those poor souls that have to pay $24,000 to get a property line moved. 00:10:52.040 --> 00:10:59.040 I have a question then on that because I worked for elected official previously and my cell 00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:04.040 phone and my email was all subject to being taken. 00:11:04.040 --> 00:11:07.040 That's why you have sitting email addresses. 00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:09.040 Oh, yeah. 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:13.040 If you do have issues with it, please let us know. 00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:16.040 Yeah, I just get it via Gmail. 00:11:16.040 --> 00:11:18.040 It happens. 00:11:18.040 --> 00:11:25.040 Because communicating just through your sitting email makes it much easier for us to argue 00:11:25.040 --> 00:11:30.040 on your behalf if there's an open meeting or open records app. 00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:35.040 Request that, "Hey, they do other city business through this email address. 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:37.040 We don't have any reason to ask for their email." 00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:39.040 So we're not going to send them. 00:11:39.040 --> 00:11:43.040 Oh, we're fair with the officials for way too long. 00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:48.040 I don't do squat. 00:11:48.040 --> 00:11:50.040 You can always call us. 00:11:50.040 --> 00:11:51.040 Exactly. 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:52.040 Yeah. 00:11:52.040 --> 00:11:56.040 I forget which political consultant sent emails or the devil. 00:11:56.040 --> 00:11:58.040 Text, don't do it. 00:11:58.040 --> 00:11:59.040 Yeah. 00:11:59.040 --> 00:12:02.040 Don't contact your cell phone. 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:05.040 All right. 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:09.040 So Texas Local Government Code is also what defines the authority that you all have. 00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:12.040 So they break that into four categories. 00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:15.040 One is hearing and deciding appeals of administrative decisions. 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:20.040 So pretty much any decision that a staff member makes in an official capacity can be 00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:22.040 appealed to you all. 00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:26.040 We see a handful of those come before the board. 00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:30.040 The second category are special exceptions to the terms of the zoning ordinance if that is 00:12:30.040 --> 00:12:32.040 something that's required by the zoning ordinance. 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:36.040 Our DDC at this time does not address special exceptions. 00:12:36.040 --> 00:12:38.040 It was something we previously had in the code. 00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:44.040 When we updated it, we took out those provisions, so we no longer have to worry about that one. 00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:47.040 Third category is authorizing invariants to the terms of the zoning ordinance. 00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:52.040 So obviously you all see those on a semi-regular basis, usually for things related to like the 00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:56.040 numeric standards of the code, setbacks or something of that nature. 00:12:56.040 --> 00:13:01.040 And then the fourth is kind of the catch-all of any other matters authorized by the zoning ordinance. 00:13:01.040 --> 00:13:07.040 So in the DDC, specific to you all are the termination of a non-conforming use and then 00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:09.040 appeals and variances under our sign code. 00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:11.040 Yes. 00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:19.040 So let's say that I am a developer and I own a property that is R2 or R3, and I say that I want 00:13:19.040 --> 00:13:23.040 to stick something that is not conforming with that zoning designation on the property. 00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:28.040 I bring this idea to development services. 00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:31.040 They say we are not going to approve that. 00:13:31.040 --> 00:13:35.040 You're going to have to go through the process to get the actual underlying zoning changed. 00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:40.040 Is that a decision that I can say, well, rather than do that, I'm going to appeal this decision 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:44.040 to the ZVA board? 00:13:44.040 --> 00:13:48.040 I would -- I don't know. 00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:52.040 I'm thinking if someone is just saying we don't want to do the process, that that's probably 00:13:52.040 --> 00:13:57.040 not an appealable argument because they're not following the proper process. 00:13:57.040 --> 00:14:00.040 Yeah, no, because that is sort of vague. 00:14:00.040 --> 00:14:05.040 And it is very vague in state statute, but I would say if we told them you have to go 00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:10.040 through our zoning compliance plan process, which is our site plan, and they did that, 00:14:10.040 --> 00:14:14.040 and their plans did not meet code, so we ultimately said, you know what, you're not 00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:17.040 submitting plans, you're not doing the things we're asking you to, we're denying this 00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:20.040 application, they could appeal that denial to you all. 00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:27.040 And if they had a reason why they thought that the non-conforming use should fit on R2, 00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:32.040 even though our zoning code says no, they could make that argument. 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:41.040 But at that point, I am -- at that point, it's like, I think what you all typically do 00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:44.040 is like, look, you can ask counsel for it. 00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:47.040 We're going to say we can't support it for the following reasons. 00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.040 If you want to do that, that's up to you. 00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:52.040 Yeah, like if they're proposing a land use or something that just does not fit in the 00:14:52.040 --> 00:14:56.040 zoning, we would tell them your choices are to go through a zoning change application. 00:14:56.040 --> 00:14:57.040 Right. 00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:00.040 Or you can go talk to someone in counsel and see if they want to take a code amendment 00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:04.040 through the development code review committee process to add that use to the code. 00:15:04.040 --> 00:15:05.040 Exactly. 00:15:05.040 --> 00:15:07.040 Yeah, ZBA doesn't have the right to change something, does it? 00:15:07.040 --> 00:15:08.040 No. 00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:13.040 No, we just have to decide whether or not things fit this criteria. 00:15:13.040 --> 00:15:19.040 Well, a slight asterisk on that is that if you're called on to make an interpretation 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:26.040 of whether something is or is not the thing, your interpretation becomes how that definition 00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:27.040 is applied. 00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:30.040 We did that once with Southeast Denton. 00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:31.040 We did. 00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:32.040 We did. 00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:33.040 And it was -- it felt good. 00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:34.040 We finally did something. 00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:39.040 It felt really good because it was way back, you know, 1920s, and it was different kind 00:15:39.040 --> 00:15:43.040 of lots, and we approved the thing. 00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:45.040 And I can't remember what it was. 00:15:45.040 --> 00:15:49.040 It was a private home, for one thing, and it was -- 00:15:49.040 --> 00:15:51.040 It was more than whatever. 00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:55.040 I don't remember now the number of people in the lot or something. 00:15:55.040 --> 00:16:00.040 Yeah, I think it was supposed to have such and such on either side of it, and they didn't 00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:01.040 have it. 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:02.040 Yeah. 00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:03.040 We've done things like that. 00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:07.040 And generally what we don't do is, you know, people coming to seek forgiveness rather than 00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:08.040 permission. 00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:09.040 Yeah. 00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:10.040 We don't like that. 00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:13.040 Like a guy builds a barbecue that's too close to his neighbor's fence. 00:16:13.040 --> 00:16:14.040 Yes. 00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:17.040 And thinks that he can come here to get the appeal. 00:16:17.040 --> 00:16:19.040 Would not find a very friendly audience. 00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:20.040 No. 00:16:20.040 --> 00:16:23.040 Hypothetically, if I, like, had a, you know, say, a chlorine plant. 00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:24.040 Oh, yeah. 00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:25.040 You know, hypothetically. 00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:26.040 Oh, yeah. 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:36.040 But so that wouldn't be a procedure that would be desirable or likely to go well if, say, 00:16:36.040 --> 00:16:43.040 I want to build, you know -- in R2, I just come with some, like, in my neighborhood in 00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:47.040 that area around, like, Denton Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, I come and say I've got this R3 00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:51.040 lot and I want to build a barbershop on it or something. 00:16:51.040 --> 00:16:55.040 That would not be something that would be desirable to take through the ZBA process. 00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:58.040 And if I chose to do so, it would not likely succeed. 00:16:58.040 --> 00:17:02.040 ZBA can't bury the land use as authorized in the zoning district. 00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:05.040 So if it was that, they would need to change the zoning to something that would permit 00:17:05.040 --> 00:17:06.040 the commercial use. 00:17:06.040 --> 00:17:07.040 Okay. 00:17:07.040 --> 00:17:08.040 So that's just -- that's flat out not a different law. 00:17:08.040 --> 00:17:09.040 And that would be a PNC. 00:17:09.040 --> 00:17:10.040 Okay. 00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:11.040 All right. 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:12.040 Thank you. 00:17:12.040 --> 00:17:17.040 What I was going to say is just that staff has a role in all of this because, you know, 00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:22.040 we're very unlikely to approve -- I mean, we do once in a while, but -- or at least we 00:17:22.040 --> 00:17:27.040 dig into it -- that every once in a while, most of the time, staff will recommend or 00:17:27.040 --> 00:17:28.040 not recommend. 00:17:28.040 --> 00:17:30.040 And that's taken very seriously, right? 00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:31.040 Right. 00:17:31.040 --> 00:17:32.040 All of these bodies. 00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:33.040 Yeah. 00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:34.040 And we'll get into some of that as we go. 00:17:34.040 --> 00:17:35.040 Yeah. 00:17:35.040 --> 00:17:38.040 Because the one time I was here, we had, I think, recommendation -- or was it sort of 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:39.040 neutral on the bill? 00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:43.040 I can't remember if the Pitcherick parking lot was recommended or not. 00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:50.040 We were -- I believe our official recommendation was denial, but we kind of gave you the caveats 00:17:50.040 --> 00:17:51.040 of here's how we could see it making sense. 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:52.040 Okay. 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:53.040 So we tried to be -- 00:17:53.040 --> 00:17:54.040 Oh, yeah. 00:17:54.040 --> 00:17:55.040 The last thing we approved. 00:17:55.040 --> 00:17:56.040 Yeah. 00:17:56.040 --> 00:17:57.040 No. 00:17:57.040 --> 00:17:58.040 The last thing we approved was -- 00:17:58.040 --> 00:17:59.040 The setback. 00:17:59.040 --> 00:18:00.040 Like it was more of a line change. 00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:01.040 Yeah. 00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:02.040 Yeah. 00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:03.040 Yeah. 00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:04.040 The lot with -- 00:18:04.040 --> 00:18:05.040 Yeah. 00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:06.040 It was making the deed and plot line line up. 00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:07.040 Sorry. 00:18:07.040 --> 00:18:08.040 One final question on my topic. 00:18:08.040 --> 00:18:13.040 Is that something that comes out of state code or that is something that comes out of state 00:18:13.040 --> 00:18:14.040 code? 00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:17.040 For the land use, I know for a fact it's in the DDC. 00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:18.040 I can't recall if that is -- 00:18:18.040 --> 00:18:19.040 Right. 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:24.040 There's a general principle that variances and your ability to grant them operate like 00:18:24.040 --> 00:18:26.040 a dimmer switch, not like a light switch. 00:18:26.040 --> 00:18:36.040 So you can change where on the spectrum something like a setback requirement lands, or you can 00:18:36.040 --> 00:18:41.040 increase the number or decrease the number, but you can't take a no from a yes. 00:18:41.040 --> 00:18:46.040 Because generally speaking, because the no to a yes or yes to a no is more of a legislative 00:18:46.040 --> 00:18:51.040 decision that's more in a P&Z council's approval pathway. 00:18:51.040 --> 00:18:54.040 In a state definition? 00:18:54.040 --> 00:18:57.040 Where the principle of the dimmer switch comes from. 00:18:57.040 --> 00:18:58.040 Yeah. 00:18:58.040 --> 00:19:02.040 I'd have to do a little bit of research, but it's just one of those subtle law kind of 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:03.040 ideas. 00:19:03.040 --> 00:19:04.040 Okay. 00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:05.040 Yeah. 00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:10.040 So it's the localities to have these boards, like as per what they're saying, and these 00:19:10.040 --> 00:19:11.040 boards are defined. 00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:17.040 Well, in this case, these four items are what state code officially says ZBA can't do, right? 00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:18.040 State code says. 00:19:18.040 --> 00:19:22.040 And has a similar list for planning and zoning. 00:19:22.040 --> 00:19:23.040 Okay. 00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:32.040 And so I guess it's like precedent, but like I guess does our -- so we sort of went against 00:19:32.040 --> 00:19:36.040 like a little bit against staff direction, like on my first meeting. 00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:41.040 So is that considered precedent with like, if we make a different decision, could somebody 00:19:41.040 --> 00:19:46.040 go back and be like, why did they have previous decisions of ours? 00:19:46.040 --> 00:19:51.040 I think it was a very similar situation, right? 00:19:51.040 --> 00:19:52.040 Possibly. 00:19:52.040 --> 00:19:55.040 We'll have to do the same topic. 00:19:55.040 --> 00:19:56.040 Very specific. 00:19:56.040 --> 00:19:57.040 Very specific. 00:19:57.040 --> 00:20:02.040 I mean, that's so unlikely. 00:20:02.040 --> 00:20:07.040 I like a little bit like legal stuff is sort of interesting. 00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:08.040 Yeah, it's cool. 00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:09.040 I'm not worried. 00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:10.040 Yeah. 00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:20.040 I think it would boil down to whether y'all agreed that this second case was factually 00:20:20.040 --> 00:20:25.040 similar enough that it should follow along, because we left the subjective criteria to 00:20:25.040 --> 00:20:27.040 y'all of whether hardship was presented. 00:20:27.040 --> 00:20:35.040 The more objective criteria staff was in alignment with. 00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:38.040 So I guess appropriate to some of this conversation. 00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:44.040 Diving into some of these specifics, I just -- so for appeals of administrative decisions, 00:20:44.040 --> 00:20:47.040 that first item that state law says comes before you all. 00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:52.040 It also specifies who can appeal a decision. 00:20:52.040 --> 00:20:58.040 So an appeal that is not related to a specific project, application, or address can only 00:20:58.040 --> 00:21:03.040 be submitted by very broadly, someone agreed by the decision, so they can prove why they're 00:21:03.040 --> 00:21:09.040 agreed and provide that appeal, or an officer, department, or board of the municipality that's 00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:11.040 affected by the decision. 00:21:11.040 --> 00:21:17.040 So not likely to happen, but perhaps another city department is -- the fire department 00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:19.040 really disagrees with something planning says. 00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:22.040 Technically, they could come before you all in a field. 00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:26.040 Hopefully, we would all work it out like grownups amongst ourselves and not have to bring you 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:31.040 all into that, or say we did something, made a decision with a property that's right on 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:36.040 our city boundary and another city feels like that negatively impacts them. 00:21:36.040 --> 00:21:39.040 I believe that would fall within that umbrella. 00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:40.040 Okay. 00:21:40.040 --> 00:21:44.040 And then the second category are appeals that do relate to a specific application, address, 00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:49.040 or project, and that list allows for either the person who filed the application and we 00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:53.040 said no, or we provided them an interpretation they didn't like. 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:56.040 The person who owns the property could have made an appeal. 00:21:56.040 --> 00:22:01.040 Someone who owns property within 200 feet that is agreed by the decision could make 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:05.040 an appeal, or again, another municipal department could do that. 00:22:05.040 --> 00:22:09.040 So just a couple of examples that you all may remember where you can go back and watch 00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:12.040 the cases if you just get really bored and need something to watch. 00:22:12.040 --> 00:22:17.040 In this instance, we had a zoning compliance plan that staff approved for multi-family 00:22:17.040 --> 00:22:22.040 development, and in this case, the neighbors brought the appeal to you all because they 00:22:22.040 --> 00:22:25.040 disagreed with staff's approval of that application. 00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:30.040 The other case, hypothetical bleach production in a residential area. 00:22:30.040 --> 00:22:33.040 In that case, staff said no, you cannot do that here. 00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:38.040 That's an industrial land use and this is a mixed use zoning district that doesn't allow 00:22:38.040 --> 00:22:42.040 industrial uses, so that business owner brought that appeal before you all. 00:22:42.040 --> 00:22:49.040 So you say other municipalities, so UNT or TWU, they would not come before us if they 00:22:49.040 --> 00:22:51.040 disagreed with the city. 00:22:51.040 --> 00:22:57.040 So we take a pretty deferential approach with what we ask UNT and the other school you just 00:22:57.040 --> 00:23:14.040 asked TWU to do, so if they really didn't like it, I think they could. 00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:18.040 There's already a lot of abbreviations and acronyms in the work. 00:23:18.040 --> 00:23:20.040 There's an acronym limit. 00:23:20.040 --> 00:23:25.040 I'm just going to trust you to hold down the college acronyms. 00:23:25.040 --> 00:23:28.040 Let's be honest, they don't want to be in the press fighting with everybody, so they 00:23:28.040 --> 00:23:30.040 work it out. 00:23:30.040 --> 00:23:35.040 To be fair, UNT has protested items before council for specific use permits. 00:23:35.040 --> 00:23:40.040 I can think of one where UNT showed up and protested and the council said no. 00:23:40.040 --> 00:23:42.040 It can happen. 00:23:42.040 --> 00:23:46.040 So this structure sort of doesn't give renters very much rights. 00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:53.040 In that hypothetical case of the tenant of the apartment building, they have very limited 00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:57.040 recourse under this state law structure. 00:23:57.040 --> 00:24:02.040 I suppose maybe for the project specific, I see where you're coming from, because those 00:24:02.040 --> 00:24:04.040 all do specify honor. 00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:06.040 That wasn't the top one? 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:12.040 Under the general appeal of the decision, so say someone, if those apartments were built 00:24:12.040 --> 00:24:17.040 and someone renting there disagreed with, you know, maybe they applied for a permit for 00:24:17.040 --> 00:24:23.040 a fencer in a dog park or something and they said no, a renter perhaps then could be considered 00:24:23.040 --> 00:24:25.040 a person agreed by that, maybe? 00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:27.040 We take a pretty broad approach. 00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:31.040 So, yeah. 00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:33.040 It's challenging with renters. 00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:37.040 Yeah, and I'm just sitting here trying to decide how much. 00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:43.040 So in my personal opinion, as Hillary Negron, not as city employer, oh no, actually, I'll 00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:49.040 just go ahead, more due process is better than less due process. 00:24:49.040 --> 00:25:02.040 And if we can accommodate someone who might have a good argument or whatever, we might 00:25:02.040 --> 00:25:06.040 go ahead and take it, but I can't think of the time that has happened. 00:25:06.040 --> 00:25:10.040 And they would fill out a card and come and speak to us, wouldn't they? 00:25:10.040 --> 00:25:15.040 Yeah, certainly, I mean, in any of these instances with the bleach production, we were not checking 00:25:15.040 --> 00:25:19.040 people's addresses at the door and say, do you own or rent the property that you want 00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:21.040 to come speak on this item? 00:25:21.040 --> 00:25:25.040 They might not be able to speak on the item. 00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:31.040 And that would be sort of an internal decision among city attorney's office and development 00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:34.040 services of how we wanted to proceed. 00:25:34.040 --> 00:25:38.040 And that's because it's information that's valuable to people. 00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:43.040 And it's also, it's really difficult to get renters to speak up on their own behalf, if 00:25:43.040 --> 00:25:44.040 they don't. 00:25:44.040 --> 00:25:45.040 Right. 00:25:45.040 --> 00:25:47.040 So there's a number of policy considerations as well. 00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:48.040 I know. 00:25:48.040 --> 00:25:50.040 I mean, even people 500 feet don't get notice on that one. 00:25:50.040 --> 00:25:55.040 They find out about a freak out. 00:25:55.040 --> 00:26:00.040 So with appeals, the other important thing to know is just very time specific in terms 00:26:00.040 --> 00:26:02.040 of every aspect of them. 00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:07.040 So once a decision is rendered, the appeal has to be submitted not less than, not later 00:26:07.040 --> 00:26:10.040 than 20 days after the date the decision was made. 00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:16.040 Once that happens, all other proceedings related to it are just put on pause. 00:26:16.040 --> 00:26:21.040 And then we have to get you all to convene for two meetings to hear and then decide the 00:26:21.040 --> 00:26:24.040 item within 60 days of the date of that application being filed with us. 00:26:24.040 --> 00:26:28.040 So that's why on occasion, if we're not able to get court with a regular meeting, but we 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:33.040 have an appeal that's in process, you might see Carly blowing up your email like, hey, 00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:34.040 here's a survey monkey. 00:26:34.040 --> 00:26:36.040 What dates are you all available? 00:26:36.040 --> 00:26:43.040 And then we're holding two back to back meetings if we need to get it done within that timeframe. 00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:47.040 Those have to be open, heard, closed. 00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:49.040 Open, heard, closed. 00:26:49.040 --> 00:26:50.040 Yes. 00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:51.040 Okay. 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:53.040 Because we did something wrong once, I remember. 00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:55.040 We had an opening once. 00:26:55.040 --> 00:26:56.040 Yes. 00:26:56.040 --> 00:26:57.040 Heard it. 00:26:57.040 --> 00:27:00.040 And then pause it for the first. 00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:02.040 I mean, we're sorry right now. 00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:04.040 We still have quorum. 00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:06.040 We have three. 00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:07.040 Okay. 00:27:07.040 --> 00:27:09.040 We don't have quorum for making a decision. 00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:10.040 Sure, we have. 00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:11.040 Okay. 00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:14.040 Just some other items related to this. 00:27:14.040 --> 00:27:18.040 If you do read the city code, we built it to align with Texas local government code and 00:27:18.040 --> 00:27:20.040 all of those timelines. 00:27:20.040 --> 00:27:23.040 Our DDC also defines the minimum written content. 00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:28.040 So we try to make sure that the person providing the appeal has given you all full facts, everything 00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:33.040 that code sections that they think we've misinterpreted, the reasoning behind it. 00:27:33.040 --> 00:27:37.040 We take whatever other documentation that they may want to provide and pass all of that 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:40.040 along to you all as a complete application. 00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:42.040 And trust me, we do set it. 00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:45.040 There's occasions where Hillary and I are like, so we don't feel like they're making much 00:27:45.040 --> 00:27:46.040 case here to help themselves. 00:27:46.040 --> 00:27:51.040 So we try to toss them actually like, hey, before we accept this, can you all give some 00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:52.040 additional thought to this? 00:27:52.040 --> 00:27:55.040 The board's going to want to know the answers to these questions. 00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:58.040 So we try to bring you as complete of an application as we can. 00:27:58.040 --> 00:28:01.040 You will find on appeals staff will not make a recommendation. 00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:04.040 The code does require that we provide you all the facts. 00:28:04.040 --> 00:28:06.040 We provide you the analysis of how our decision was made. 00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:12.040 The applicant gives their rationale and then it is up to you all to make that decision. 00:28:12.040 --> 00:28:16.040 There are criteria for approval in the development code. 00:28:16.040 --> 00:28:22.040 There are 13 very general criteria like does this align with a comprehensive plan? 00:28:22.040 --> 00:28:27.040 Things like of that nature that technically do apply in an appeal. 00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:32.040 And then it also states that you all should weigh the facts as stated in the application 00:28:32.040 --> 00:28:36.040 and presented by the appellant and the director, as well as the requirements and intent of 00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:37.040 the applicable standards. 00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:40.040 So you'll find that we'll try to give you as much background information as we can as 00:28:40.040 --> 00:28:47.040 to why the code requirement is what it is so that you can weigh that in your decision. 00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:51.040 You as the board can either affirm staff's decision, reverse our decision in whole or 00:28:51.040 --> 00:28:53.040 in part, amend the decision. 00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:57.040 And if you feel that it's necessary for health, safety, welfare of the city, you can also 00:28:57.040 --> 00:28:58.040 attach conditions. 00:28:58.040 --> 00:29:05.040 So you might say we reverse staff's decision, but we're going to put these caveats on here. 00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:10.040 And then again, that decision that you all make can be appealed to a district court within 00:29:10.040 --> 00:29:11.040 10 days. 00:29:11.040 --> 00:29:13.040 And this is the big one on appeals. 00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:15.040 Your decision is binding on our future decisions. 00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:22.040 So the fact that in that previous case, you all said bleach production is high impact 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:24.040 manufacturing, we concur with staff's interpretation. 00:29:24.040 --> 00:29:27.040 Anyone else that wants to produce bleach in the city of Denton, that's how we'll classify 00:29:27.040 --> 00:29:33.040 that land use, even though it's not specifically listed in our table of uses. 00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:38.040 And that would continue to apply until someone else decides to appeal that decision and then 00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:40.040 take it to our city council. 00:29:40.040 --> 00:29:44.040 So here our council amends the code. 00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:46.040 Variances are the second category that you'll see. 00:29:46.040 --> 00:29:48.040 So just a couple of examples that you've seen. 00:29:48.040 --> 00:29:52.040 There we have our very recent lot width example. 00:29:52.040 --> 00:29:56.040 So that's the more typical thing that you'll see as a variance or those numeric standards 00:29:56.040 --> 00:30:00.040 because we do have very strict, you know, this is the maximum height the building can be. 00:30:00.040 --> 00:30:03.040 This is the minimum lot width depth, minimum setbacks. 00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:07.040 Those are things, especially in the older parts of town, you'll see are somewhat common 00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:10.040 to come before you all as variances. 00:30:10.040 --> 00:30:13.040 The other example on the screen is that parking example. 00:30:13.040 --> 00:30:15.040 That's a little more unique. 00:30:15.040 --> 00:30:19.040 You don't see a whole lot of those because in a lot of those more performance standard 00:30:19.040 --> 00:30:24.040 type things, you'll see that the development code offers people a lot of flexibility typically 00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:26.040 or gives staff a lot of flexibility. 00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:29.040 In that case, they had existed the limits of staff's flexibility. 00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:31.040 So it came before you all. 00:30:31.040 --> 00:30:37.040 So in this case, the variance can only be used if the strict application of the code 00:30:37.040 --> 00:30:42.040 would create an unnecessary hardship or not allow someone the ability to develop their 00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:47.040 property in a way that would be common for other properties in that condition or if there's 00:30:47.040 --> 00:30:51.040 unique conditions associated with the property. 00:30:51.040 --> 00:30:56.040 And in both of these cases, you all found that there were unique circumstances and found 00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:59.040 the ability to grant that variance there. 00:30:59.040 --> 00:31:01.040 And again, that last bullet is what we touched on earlier. 00:31:01.040 --> 00:31:05.040 You cannot use a variance to allow a use in a zoning district where it's not currently 00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:12.040 allowed, and it can't be solely to alleviate inconvenience and financial burden. 00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:16.040 For variances, you will find that staff does provide you a recommendation on those. 00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:20.040 The code gives us the criteria and authorization to do so. 00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:23.040 A variance is specific to that property. 00:31:23.040 --> 00:31:26.040 It does a transfer, and it will expire after 24 months. 00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:30.040 So if someone's coming before you all or in the case of the lot with, for example, if 00:31:30.040 --> 00:31:35.040 he failed to follow through with the plat that he was seeking to do for that property 00:31:35.040 --> 00:31:40.040 for two years, that variance would expire and he would be back here asking for it again 00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:41.040 if that... 00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:43.040 Or the new order would be. 00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:47.040 Or the new order, perhaps, if they decided to walk away. 00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:50.040 Again, appeals on a variance would go to court. 00:31:50.040 --> 00:31:53.040 There's that 10-day limit. 00:31:53.040 --> 00:31:58.040 And then the variance can be suspended or revoked if it's determined that there's failure 00:31:58.040 --> 00:31:59.040 to comply with any terms. 00:31:59.040 --> 00:32:04.040 So if you all attach conditions to a variance and then our zoning inspectors go out and 00:32:04.040 --> 00:32:07.040 find that someone has violated those, we could suspend or revoke that variance. 00:32:07.040 --> 00:32:10.040 Would it come through here or would it just automatically? 00:32:10.040 --> 00:32:14.040 I believe that is a staff-level revocation and they could appeal that to you all. 00:32:14.040 --> 00:32:18.040 All right. 00:32:18.040 --> 00:32:19.040 We'll go through these in detail. 00:32:19.040 --> 00:32:23.040 You'll see them regularly, but we can send these slides up to you all just so you have 00:32:23.040 --> 00:32:25.040 them handy for future reference. 00:32:25.040 --> 00:32:29.040 So I wanted to make sure you had the criteria for approval. 00:32:29.040 --> 00:32:31.040 So again, it's looking for things. 00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:35.040 Is it something specific to the conditions of the property? 00:32:35.040 --> 00:32:40.040 Would there be any harm or detriment to public welfare if the variance was granted? 00:32:40.040 --> 00:32:45.040 And one of the key ones, I think, is C, when you're looking at numeric standards, is it 00:32:45.040 --> 00:32:47.040 the minimum needed to accomplish the purpose? 00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:50.040 So if someone comes before you all and they're like, "Well, I can build my house," you grant 00:32:50.040 --> 00:32:51.040 me a five-foot relief. 00:32:51.040 --> 00:32:55.040 But really, I'd like you to grant me a 20-foot relief for the setback just because. 00:32:55.040 --> 00:32:57.040 It's like, no, you can have five. 00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:00.040 You prove you can do it with five, five is what it is. 00:33:00.040 --> 00:33:04.040 So again, you'll see these in every case when we bring the variance before you all. 00:33:04.040 --> 00:33:08.040 We'll make sure that you all have these conditions handy. 00:33:08.040 --> 00:33:12.040 This is one of those other categories that the DDC throws to you all. 00:33:12.040 --> 00:33:21.040 It's not something I would hazard a guess that we will see done ever, probably. 00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:24.040 Maybe, but I've been here nine years and I've never seen it stupid. 00:33:24.040 --> 00:33:30.040 So the DDC does speak to if a non-conforming use is going to be amortized, meaning counsel 00:33:30.040 --> 00:33:32.040 is going to say, "We're buying you out. 00:33:32.040 --> 00:33:33.040 We're getting rid of you. 00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:37.040 You've got X amount of time to get off of this property and stop what you're doing." 00:33:37.040 --> 00:33:40.040 That schedule would come before you all to decide. 00:33:40.040 --> 00:33:45.040 So it's, again, not something I've seen counsel do, but it is something that falls into the 00:33:45.040 --> 00:33:50.040 bucket of ZBA's authority if we ever need to do so if a non-conforming use becomes so 00:33:50.040 --> 00:33:53.040 problematic that counsel decides we're going to end it. 00:33:53.040 --> 00:33:58.040 So basically, if I'm hearing this right, it's when the city buys a property and they're 00:33:58.040 --> 00:33:59.040 vacating. 00:33:59.040 --> 00:34:02.040 Not necessarily that we're buying it. 00:34:02.040 --> 00:34:04.040 I could provide an example here. 00:34:04.040 --> 00:34:05.040 Sure. 00:34:05.040 --> 00:34:11.040 So the city of Dallas has had a number of cases of very polluting land uses that were 00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:17.040 not authorized to be in the areas that they were in, technically, but for legacy reasons, 00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:24.040 the city didn't particularly care about the communities that were nearby those uses. 00:34:24.040 --> 00:34:28.040 So Shingle Mountain is quite famous. 00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:34.040 There was a decades-long campaign by neighbors there to get the city to say, "Hey, this doesn't 00:34:34.040 --> 00:34:36.040 comply with your zoning," because it didn't. 00:34:36.040 --> 00:34:39.040 And eventually, the city finally comes and says, "Yes, okay, so this doesn't comply with 00:34:39.040 --> 00:34:40.040 your zoning. 00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:43.040 You have to clean it up and get it out of here if you're just doing this." 00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:46.040 I think that would probably be an example of this. 00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:52.040 The closest that I've seen to this would be when I saw city council basically annex a 00:34:52.040 --> 00:34:58.040 piece of property because the person went against the agreement of non-annexation. 00:34:58.040 --> 00:35:00.040 That's a different idea. 00:35:00.040 --> 00:35:02.040 I mean, that's the most similar thing I've seen. 00:35:02.040 --> 00:35:07.040 So there's so many things that are going to happen before this process. 00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:10.040 The staff goal is to make sure it never comes before. 00:35:10.040 --> 00:35:13.040 Yeah, that's why it doesn't come is because it gets sold. 00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:14.040 Yeah. 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:21.040 First of all, if it's a non-conforming use that doesn't seem to be hurting anyone, it's 00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:23.040 going to keep going. 00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:25.040 A huge financial burden on the city. 00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:27.040 It really would be. 00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:34.040 And if there's a use that is non-conforming and is causing problems, then staff will work 00:35:34.040 --> 00:35:36.040 with the owner to remove non-conforming. 00:35:36.040 --> 00:35:39.040 That was the tires. 00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:43.040 There was somebody who was doing outside storage that didn't quite work. 00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:45.040 Yeah. 00:35:45.040 --> 00:35:48.040 But not eventually at all. 00:35:48.040 --> 00:35:51.040 It worked its way. 00:35:51.040 --> 00:35:53.040 It never came across as VA. 00:35:53.040 --> 00:35:57.040 Yeah, for the most part, we can work with most people. 00:35:57.040 --> 00:35:59.040 The Shingle Mound is a great example. 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:03.040 If there was something so offensive that it was causing environmental hazard or something 00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:06.040 of that nature, perhaps. 00:36:06.040 --> 00:36:10.040 This is one I doubt any of us will ever have to worry about. 00:36:10.040 --> 00:36:14.040 We're pretty fortunate we don't have that many noxious uses in the city of Denton that 00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:19.040 we would need to go to this level because the state does provide pretty robust standards 00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:24.040 for how the city has to go about essentially paying for any value that they can prove they 00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:26.040 have left in their property. 00:36:26.040 --> 00:36:28.040 Especially eminent domain. 00:36:28.040 --> 00:36:29.040 No. 00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:31.040 I've been around long enough to remember. 00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:32.040 What? 00:36:32.040 --> 00:36:36.040 Basically, you have to stop and you have to do something different with the property. 00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:38.040 So we have to pay them for the lost property. 00:36:38.040 --> 00:36:43.040 I've been around long enough to remember when I guess somewhere in California kicked out 00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:49.040 of Sriracha because people's eyes were burning and all kinds of stuff, and one of our city 00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:53.040 councilors went on a campaign, "Let's have them come here!" 00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:56.040 And everybody at Denton was kind of like... 00:36:56.040 --> 00:37:01.040 You know, like Dallas Magazine or something, the e-magazine. 00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:04.040 They wanted to come to Denton because, you know... 00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:06.040 He was never really leaving California. 00:37:06.040 --> 00:37:07.040 That was a whole other thing. 00:37:07.040 --> 00:37:08.040 I know, yeah. 00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:10.040 So that was a mess. 00:37:10.040 --> 00:37:13.040 We haven't reached the end of our fun that quickly. 00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:14.040 You sure? 00:37:14.040 --> 00:37:15.040 Let's see. 00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:17.040 Just a couple more slides. 00:37:17.040 --> 00:37:20.040 So last topic I'll cover with you all. 00:37:20.040 --> 00:37:24.040 And again, this is really intended to be kind of that summary that you all can refer to 00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.040 in the future if you need it. 00:37:26.040 --> 00:37:27.040 It's just sign code variances. 00:37:27.040 --> 00:37:31.040 Another pretty common case type to come before you all. 00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:35.040 Our code does give us 45 days to get these processed once they're submitted. 00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:39.040 So again, sometimes you'll see us calling on you for an off-schedule meeting if the 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.040 quorum is not going to work at a regular time. 00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:47.040 In this case, it specifies that you can't grant a variance to the sign code solely to 00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.040 authorize a sign type that's not allowed. 00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:51.040 It's similar to that allowing a use that's not allowed. 00:37:51.040 --> 00:37:53.040 You can't just flip that switch. 00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:56.040 And it can't be just for personal convenience or financial hardship. 00:37:56.040 --> 00:37:59.040 It has to be something related to the property itself. 00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:01.040 We approved a hospital variance. 00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:03.040 That was fine. 00:38:03.040 --> 00:38:08.040 It didn't be before I was anywhere near it, but approved at Horrible Bucky's. 00:38:08.040 --> 00:38:09.040 Yes. 00:38:09.040 --> 00:38:13.040 So in this case, again, you've got pretty strict criteria that we would look for you 00:38:13.040 --> 00:38:18.040 to find that it meets, again, related to something unique with the property itself, 00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:21.040 something that would create an unnecessary hardship. 00:38:21.040 --> 00:38:25.040 And we have to be able to say that it wouldn't violate the spirit and intent of the code. 00:38:25.040 --> 00:38:28.040 So just more recent examples for you all to think of. 00:38:28.040 --> 00:38:32.040 Like the Old West, we saw that in the property next door in one meeting where 00:38:32.040 --> 00:38:35.040 TxDOT was requiring the relocation of their signs. 00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:39.040 They'd been there for decades and didn't meet the strict numeric standards of the 00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:41.040 code as it's written today. 00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:45.040 But again, because of the unique situation they were in with TxDOT and being 00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:48.040 forced to relocate, you all were able to grant the variance. 00:38:48.040 --> 00:38:53.040 And then one thing you all denied was the Plains Capital Bank here close by that 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:57.040 didn't have a compelling, unique reason related to the property as to why that 00:38:57.040 --> 00:39:01.040 sign needed to be internally illuminated in that close proximity to residents. 00:39:01.040 --> 00:39:08.040 So in that case, that variance was not successful. 00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:13.040 And then the one type of special exception we do have in our code, I mentioned earlier, 00:39:13.040 --> 00:39:15.040 the zoning code does not deal with special exceptions. 00:39:15.040 --> 00:39:19.040 The sign code allows two conditions where there is a special exception that the 00:39:19.040 --> 00:39:20.040 board can grant. 00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:26.040 And that's if there's a visibility obstruction, which I hope we don't feel 00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:31.040 like because of the math and calculating what that obstruction is from a 0.6 feet 00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:35.040 in height at a parallel plane and all of the things in that definition just blow 00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:36.040 my mind. 00:39:36.040 --> 00:39:39.040 We've done it once or twice, but it doesn't come up often, thankfully. 00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:42.040 And then the second is for medical emergency signs. 00:39:42.040 --> 00:39:48.040 So that one, I think I've seen one or two signs that have tried to come forward 00:39:48.040 --> 00:39:49.040 with that. 00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:54.040 So that's a unique case as well where it does authorize for the emergency treatment 00:39:54.040 --> 00:39:58.040 signs to have some flexibility compared to the rest of the signs. 00:39:58.040 --> 00:40:00.040 It wasn't near a residential neighborhood. 00:40:00.040 --> 00:40:02.040 It was where there was a lot going on. 00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:04.040 Was it Med Park? 00:40:04.040 --> 00:40:09.040 It was across from CVS and my vet. 00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:14.040 And it barked the backyards with trees or something. 00:40:14.040 --> 00:40:15.040 I don't remember. 00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:19.040 And they needed a second sign because people comes from one direction, couldn't tell 00:40:19.040 --> 00:40:20.040 them without. 00:40:20.040 --> 00:40:23.040 And it was an emergency. 00:40:23.040 --> 00:40:26.040 So again, we don't see them very often, but those two you might see come before you 00:40:26.040 --> 00:40:29.040 in terms of special exceptions instead of variances. 00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:32.040 And they'll have different criteria than the variance would. 00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:36.040 It has to strictly meet one of these two definitions in those cases. 00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:38.040 And with that, that's all I wanted to cover. 00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:41.040 But we're happy to answer any other questions. 00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:43.040 You'll have asked a lot of good ones so far. 00:40:43.040 --> 00:40:44.040 Yeah. 00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:46.040 Hillary, anything you think we missed? 00:40:46.040 --> 00:40:47.040 Yeah. 00:40:47.040 --> 00:40:48.040 Okay, that's good. 00:40:48.040 --> 00:40:50.040 We've got a rocking CBA right now. 00:40:50.040 --> 00:40:52.040 Did we make your brain work? 00:40:52.040 --> 00:40:53.040 Yeah, it's all good. 00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:56.040 The engagement always makes us happy. 00:40:56.040 --> 00:41:00.040 It's good to know you all take the role and the power seriously. 00:41:00.040 --> 00:41:04.040 But yeah, I'll have Carly send out these slides to you all so you have them as a reference 00:41:04.040 --> 00:41:07.040 point for two other members as well that weren't able to join us. 00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:09.040 Let us know if you have any questions. 00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:13.040 Raising capable successors. 00:41:13.040 --> 00:41:15.040 Thank you all. 00:41:15.040 --> 00:41:19.040 Would you like to close the meeting? 00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:21.040 Oh yeah, I guess I have to close the meeting. 00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:26.040 So to close the meeting, I just say that meeting is adjourned. 00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:27.040 Thank you. 00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:28.040 Do you want to ask? 00:41:28.040 --> 00:41:29.040 Yep. 00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:30.040 Sounds good. 00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:31.040 Okay. 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:32.040 All right, thank you all. 00:41:32.040 --> 00:41:33.040 Of course. 00:41:33.040 --> 00:41:33.040 Thank you very much.