1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,040
 Oh, we didn't know about the meeting.

2
00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,040
 Oh, alright then.

3
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:21,040
 Welcome to the meeting at 5.32 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance.

4
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040
 Ta-da!

5
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,040
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

6
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,040
 and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,

7
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,040
 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

8
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:41,040
 I honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas,

9
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,040
 one state, under God, one and indivisible.

10
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,040
 There we go.

11
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:58,040
 Alrighty, our first order of business after that is to consider approval of the December 16th minutes.

12
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,040
 I motion approval of the December 16th minutes.

13
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,040
 Second?

14
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,040
 I second.

15
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:04,040
 Thank you.

16
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,040
 Any discussion, questions?

17
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,040
 Call the question.

18
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,040
 All in favor of approving the minutes?

19
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,040
 Aye.

20
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,040
 Any opposed?

21
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,040
 Any abstain?

22
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,040
 Nope.

23
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,040
 Can't abstain, I think, in this committee.

24
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:22,040
 Alright, now we elect a Chair and a Vice Chair to the Zoning Board of Adjustment.

25
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,040
 I nominate, do I have a motion to nominate or do I nominate?

26
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,040
 Nominate.

27
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,040
 Okay, I nominate Member Lane as a Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustment.

28
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,040
 Thank you very much.

29
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,040
 I second.

30
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,040
 Thank you very much.

31
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,040
 Any discussion?

32
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,040
 Thank you.

33
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,040
 Call the question.

34
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,040
 All in favor?

35
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,040
 Aye.

36
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,040
 Any opposed?

37
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,040
 Any abstain?

38
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,040
 And I would like to nominate my Vice Chair, Connor, as to continue as Vice Chair.

39
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,040
 Second.

40
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,040
 Thank you.

41
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,040
 Alright.

42
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,040
 Any discussion?

43
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,040
 He's been doing good.

44
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,040
 All in favor?

45
00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,040
 Aye.

46
00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,040
 Great.

47
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,040
 So have a wonderful year.

48
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,040
 And then I think I cycle off.

49
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,040
 Connor will fit.

50
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,040
 Alright, do we get to cycle off?

51
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,040
 Unless you're a holdover.

52
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:17,040
 Unless you're an ultimate, then you live here.

53
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,040
 Yeah, then you would never cycle off.

54
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,040
 It was an ultimate parole.

55
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040
 Just for asking that question, we're going to make sure you just stay here in this room

56
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,040
 until the next meeting.

57
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,040
 Now, we're going to receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the Zoning Board of

58
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,040
 Adjustment composition, procedures, powers, and duties.

59
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,040
 Alright, so trying to go through this fairly quickly.

60
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,040
 I know it's not the most lively topic, but since we have new members in a new year, Hillary

61
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,040
 and I thought it would be good an interest to go through briefly kind of what the board's

62
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,040
 function is and answer any questions that you all may have about items that might come

63
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,040
 before you this year.

64
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,040
 So we'll run through just really quickly what is the Board of Adjustment, what's the composition

65
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,040
 of the board, some of the procedures that you all follow that may be unique to other

66
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:05,040
 boards, and then the powers and duties that fall under you all as the Board of Adjustment

67
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,040
 under state law and local code.

68
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:13,040
 So the ZBA is a body specifically authorized under the Texas Local Government Code to hear

69
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:18,040
 and decide things relating to the strict application of a city's zoning ordinance, as well as to

70
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,040
 consider appeals to administrative decisions.

71
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,040
 So specifically, if you're interested, I gave you a link in your backup, local government

72
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,040
 code, Section 211.008 is where Zoning Board of Adjustment is authorized.

73
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,040
 State law says we have to have at least five members.

74
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,040
 They have to serve two-year terms.

75
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,040
 We are allowed to have alternates because as a quasi-judicial board, it's very important

76
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,040
 that items come before you within certain timeframes, so we have to be able to achieve

77
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:49,040
 quorum, and then it does require that all cases be heard by 75% of the members.

78
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,040
 For us, we have seven regular members in the city of Dentonville, two additional compared

79
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,040
 to what state law authorizes, and then we also have three alternate positions for the

80
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,040
 board, so up to ten members to ensure that we can hopefully always get at least six of

81
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,040
 you in a room when we need you.

82
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040
 So if you know anyone who's interested, you can see we do have a couple of vacancies,

83
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:12,040
 so you can tell your friends on council that we have a couple of vacant spots in our current

84
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,040
 roster.

85
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,040
 So city council, as you all know, does appoint these, and you do serve in staggered two-year

86
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,040
 terms.

87
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,040
 District four and the first alternate, is that right?

88
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,040
 Yes, these are two vacancies at the moment.

89
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,040
 Who appoints the alternates?

90
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,040
 I believe anyone on council can appoint them to the alternate positions.

91
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,040
 The places are to the...

92
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:40,040
 Yes, each council member gets their one specific appointee.

93
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:46,040
 So as we noted previously, 75% of you will have to be present to hear an item for us

94
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,040
 is six members, because it's based on the seven regular members, not the total of ten.

95
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,040
 Similarly, we have to have concurring vote of 75% of you also.

96
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,040
 If there's only six in the room, all six of you have to agree.

97
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:03,040
 If you are going to reverse an administrative decision, decide in favor of something that's

98
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:08,040
 regarded otherwise by our zoning code, or authorize a variance to our zoning code.

99
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,040
 We do have to follow the Texas Open Meetings Act, so that's all the basic things like posting

100
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:19,040
 our agendas, providing notice of the meetings, assuring we have quorum.

101
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,040
 But as I mentioned, you all are quasi-judicial, so some of the things that apply to you all

102
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,040
 that may not apply to like the Planning and Zoning Commission or the other boards are

103
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,040
 that you will see that the chair does have to swear in witnesses when they come before

104
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,040
 you all.

105
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,040
 That's not something you would see at Planning and Zoning Commission or Historic Landmark

106
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,040
 Commission or some of those other boards.

107
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:45,040
 Your decisions can be appealed to the courts directly, so unlike where P&Z decides something

108
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,040
 and someone disagrees, the code may say, "You can go appeal that to council."

109
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,040
 For you all, they're next office court if they want to disagree with something that

110
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,040
 you all decided, and they would have to do that within ten days.

111
00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,040
 Quick question.

112
00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,040
 Could somebody that, I mean I guess that's not necessarily party to this, but is affected

113
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,040
 by it, sue us for a decision?

114
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,040
 You have to have standing, don't you?

115
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:14,040
 So, people who are affected by a project but not like the direct applicant or within the

116
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:23,040
 notice radius can certainly appeal to you all for a determination, like an appeal of

117
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:29,040
 staff determination, and so if they didn't like how that decision went, they could sue,

118
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:41,040
 but whether they could sue in court over what we did for the developer for their own project,

119
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,040
 I don't think they'd have standing.

120
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,040
 Okay.

121
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,040
 Good to know.

122
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,040
 You know, it's a good question, and we did have one decision some years ago that I'm

123
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,040
 curious to know how this would fit into that.

124
00:06:53,040 --> 00:07:01,040
 There was an applicant who wanted to grandfather in a guest well in an apartment complex, and

125
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:07,040
 we voted against that, and that applicant did go to court, and it ended up being there

126
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,040
 was a settlement and all that sort of thing.

127
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,040
 Would someone living there be able to, would they have standing?

128
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,040
 To do what?

129
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,040
 To sue.

130
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,040
 You know, let's say we had decided the opposite way, and then somebody living in the apartment

131
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,040
 complex didn't like that decision, would they have had standing?

132
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,040
 That's an interesting question.

133
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:34,040
 I think, I think they might be able to bring the suit, but I think that the city's defense

134
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,040
 would be that they didn't exhaust their administrative remedies.

135
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,040
 They need a counselor first.

136
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,040
 Right, okay.

137
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,040
 Counselor.

138
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,040
 That's just sort of my knee jerk.

139
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,040
 That seems kind of my thinking.

140
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,040
 So they would be better off coming before us, and then that should be...

141
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,040
 Yeah, you always start as local as you can.

142
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,040
 Even the other side too, right?

143
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,040
 The other side as well should appeal to us.

144
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,040
 Well, they would have.

145
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,040
 That would have been their appeal.

146
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,040
 I guess if that's the case, if say, it's like we approve something and then somebody comes

147
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,040
 up and says, like, gives us new information that we didn't necessarily have, or brings

148
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:17,040
 the fact that this is an effect on them, and then we agree with them, what does the original

149
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,040
 applicant do in response to that?

150
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:26,040
 They would receive notice of the ZBA matter and we would invite them to come and talk

151
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:34,040
 to us about it, is sort of how I'd handle it from a practicality perspective.

152
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,040
 From what I've seen, it's not going to get that messy, but you know.

153
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,040
 Never know.

154
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,040
 Never know.

155
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,040
 Is it 10 business days or 10 days?

156
00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,040
 I believe it's just 10 calendar days.

157
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,040
 I believe so.

158
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,040
 That's the difference.

159
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,040
 Yes.

160
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,040
 That's the difference.

161
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,040
 Before you advance to the slide, can I do a little reminder of walking quorums?

162
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,040
 Absolutely.

163
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,040
 Okay.

164
00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:02,040
 So another element of the Texas Open Meetings Act, which we are subject to, is that if there's

165
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,040
 less than a quorum, y'all do not discuss public business.

166
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,040
 So that means three of you shouldn't get together and chat.

167
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,040
 I have that backwards.

168
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,040
 Four of you.

169
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,040
 You shouldn't be in a quorum outside of a public meeting.

170
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,040
 Right.

171
00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:27,040
 And a walking quorum can happen if three of you meet and one of you emails a fourth member.

172
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:28,040
 Right.

173
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,040
 No daisy chaining.

174
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,040
 No daisy chaining.

175
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,040
 Right.

176
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,040
 Well said.

177
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:40,040
 So just a reminder that like one-off conversations, I can't stop you from doing them, but like

178
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,040
 a reminder to not daisy chain them because that can be taken together.

179
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,040
 You can talk about what you think, but don't talk about what other council members think.

180
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,040
 Yeah.

181
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,040
 I mean, that's certainly a good idea from like a golden rule perspective too.

182
00:09:54,040 --> 00:10:02,040
 Interesting like if we sat here and emailed or texted a missing member and said, "Hey,

183
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,040
 are you on your way?"

184
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,040
 That could be considered.

185
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:12,040
 I mean, thankfully because we're in a quorum, I would say it's okay and especially because

186
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,040
 we're not, it's the kind of business that you're talking about.

187
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:23,040
 So four of you talking about throwing a birthday party for Kate's dog or something, I don't

188
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,040
 care.

189
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,040
 Just be careful what you discuss in that email or text chain.

190
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,040
 Yeah.

191
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,040
 Yeah.

192
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,040
 So it's just a gentle reminder to be mindful of that.

193
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:40,040
 We have few enough cases and few enough controversial cases that it's not like developers are going

194
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,040
 to be like, "Hey, how are you doing?"

195
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:52,040
 There's more of those poor souls that have to pay $24,000 to get a property line moved.

196
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:59,040
 I have a question then on that because I worked for elected official previously and my cell

197
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,040
 phone and my email was all subject to being taken.

198
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,040
 That's why you have sitting email addresses.

199
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,040
 Oh, yeah.

200
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,040
 If you do have issues with it, please let us know.

201
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,040
 Yeah, I just get it via Gmail.

202
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,040
 It happens.

203
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:25,040
 Because communicating just through your sitting email makes it much easier for us to argue

204
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:30,040
 on your behalf if there's an open meeting or open records app.

205
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:35,040
 Request that, "Hey, they do other city business through this email address.

206
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,040
 We don't have any reason to ask for their email."

207
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,040
 So we're not going to send them.

208
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,040
 Oh, we're fair with the officials for way too long.

209
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,040
 I don't do squat.

210
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,040
 You can always call us.

211
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,040
 Exactly.

212
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,040
 Yeah.

213
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,040
 I forget which political consultant sent emails or the devil.

214
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,040
 Text, don't do it.

215
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,040
 Yeah.

216
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,040
 Don't contact your cell phone.

217
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,040
 All right.

218
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,040
 So Texas Local Government Code is also what defines the authority that you all have.

219
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,040
 So they break that into four categories.

220
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,040
 One is hearing and deciding appeals of administrative decisions.

221
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,040
 So pretty much any decision that a staff member makes in an official capacity can be

222
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,040
 appealed to you all.

223
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,040
 We see a handful of those come before the board.

224
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,040
 The second category are special exceptions to the terms of the zoning ordinance if that is

225
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,040
 something that's required by the zoning ordinance.

226
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,040
 Our DDC at this time does not address special exceptions.

227
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,040
 It was something we previously had in the code.

228
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:44,040
 When we updated it, we took out those provisions, so we no longer have to worry about that one.

229
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,040
 Third category is authorizing invariants to the terms of the zoning ordinance.

230
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,040
 So obviously you all see those on a semi-regular basis, usually for things related to like the

231
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,040
 numeric standards of the code, setbacks or something of that nature.

232
00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,040
 And then the fourth is kind of the catch-all of any other matters authorized by the zoning ordinance.

233
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:07,040
 So in the DDC, specific to you all are the termination of a non-conforming use and then

234
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,040
 appeals and variances under our sign code.

235
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,040
 Yes.

236
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:19,040
 So let's say that I am a developer and I own a property that is R2 or R3, and I say that I want

237
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,040
 to stick something that is not conforming with that zoning designation on the property.

238
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,040
 I bring this idea to development services.

239
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,040
 They say we are not going to approve that.

240
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,040
 You're going to have to go through the process to get the actual underlying zoning changed.

241
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:40,040
 Is that a decision that I can say, well, rather than do that, I'm going to appeal this decision

242
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,040
 to the ZVA board?

243
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,040
 I would -- I don't know.

244
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,040
 I'm thinking if someone is just saying we don't want to do the process, that that's probably

245
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,040
 not an appealable argument because they're not following the proper process.

246
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,040
 Yeah, no, because that is sort of vague.

247
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,040
 And it is very vague in state statute, but I would say if we told them you have to go

248
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,040
 through our zoning compliance plan process, which is our site plan, and they did that,

249
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,040
 and their plans did not meet code, so we ultimately said, you know what, you're not

250
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,040
 submitting plans, you're not doing the things we're asking you to, we're denying this

251
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,040
 application, they could appeal that denial to you all.

252
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:27,040
 And if they had a reason why they thought that the non-conforming use should fit on R2,

253
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,040
 even though our zoning code says no, they could make that argument.

254
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:41,040
 But at that point, I am -- at that point, it's like, I think what you all typically do

255
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,040
 is like, look, you can ask counsel for it.

256
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,040
 We're going to say we can't support it for the following reasons.

257
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,040
 If you want to do that, that's up to you.

258
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040
 Yeah, like if they're proposing a land use or something that just does not fit in the

259
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,040
 zoning, we would tell them your choices are to go through a zoning change application.

260
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,040
 Right.

261
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,040
 Or you can go talk to someone in counsel and see if they want to take a code amendment

262
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,040
 through the development code review committee process to add that use to the code.

263
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,040
 Exactly.

264
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,040
 Yeah, ZBA doesn't have the right to change something, does it?

265
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,040
 No.

266
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,040
 No, we just have to decide whether or not things fit this criteria.

267
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:19,040
 Well, a slight asterisk on that is that if you're called on to make an interpretation

268
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:26,040
 of whether something is or is not the thing, your interpretation becomes how that definition

269
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,040
 is applied.

270
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,040
 We did that once with Southeast Denton.

271
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,040
 We did.

272
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,040
 We did.

273
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,040
 And it was -- it felt good.

274
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,040
 We finally did something.

275
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,040
 It felt really good because it was way back, you know, 1920s, and it was different kind

276
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,040
 of lots, and we approved the thing.

277
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,040
 And I can't remember what it was.

278
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,040
 It was a private home, for one thing, and it was --

279
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,040
 It was more than whatever.

280
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,040
 I don't remember now the number of people in the lot or something.

281
00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:00,040
 Yeah, I think it was supposed to have such and such on either side of it, and they didn't

282
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:01,040
 have it.

283
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,040
 Yeah.

284
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,040
 We've done things like that.

285
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,040
 And generally what we don't do is, you know, people coming to seek forgiveness rather than

286
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,040
 permission.

287
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,040
 Yeah.

288
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,040
 We don't like that.

289
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,040
 Like a guy builds a barbecue that's too close to his neighbor's fence.

290
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,040
 Yes.

291
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,040
 And thinks that he can come here to get the appeal.

292
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,040
 Would not find a very friendly audience.

293
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,040
 No.

294
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,040
 Hypothetically, if I, like, had a, you know, say, a chlorine plant.

295
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,040
 Oh, yeah.

296
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:25,040
 You know, hypothetically.

297
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,040
 Oh, yeah.

298
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:36,040
 But so that wouldn't be a procedure that would be desirable or likely to go well if, say,

299
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:43,040
 I want to build, you know -- in R2, I just come with some, like, in my neighborhood in

300
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,040
 that area around, like, Denton Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, I come and say I've got this R3

301
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,040
 lot and I want to build a barbershop on it or something.

302
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,040
 That would not be something that would be desirable to take through the ZBA process.

303
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,040
 And if I chose to do so, it would not likely succeed.

304
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,040
 ZBA can't bury the land use as authorized in the zoning district.

305
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,040
 So if it was that, they would need to change the zoning to something that would permit

306
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,040
 the commercial use.

307
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,040
 Okay.

308
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,040
 So that's just -- that's flat out not a different law.

309
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,040
 And that would be a PNC.

310
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,040
 Okay.

311
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,040
 All right.

312
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,040
 Thank you.

313
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,040
 What I was going to say is just that staff has a role in all of this because, you know,

314
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,040
 we're very unlikely to approve -- I mean, we do once in a while, but -- or at least we

315
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:27,040
 dig into it -- that every once in a while, most of the time, staff will recommend or

316
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,040
 not recommend.

317
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,040
 And that's taken very seriously, right?

318
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,040
 Right.

319
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,040
 All of these bodies.

320
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,040
 Yeah.

321
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,040
 And we'll get into some of that as we go.

322
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,040
 Yeah.

323
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,040
 Because the one time I was here, we had, I think, recommendation -- or was it sort of

324
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:39,040
 neutral on the bill?

325
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,040
 I can't remember if the Pitcherick parking lot was recommended or not.

326
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:50,040
 We were -- I believe our official recommendation was denial, but we kind of gave you the caveats

327
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:51,040
 of here's how we could see it making sense.

328
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,040
 Okay.

329
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,040
 So we tried to be --

330
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,040
 Oh, yeah.

331
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,040
 The last thing we approved.

332
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,040
 Yeah.

333
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,040
 No.

334
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,040
 The last thing we approved was --

335
00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,040
 The setback.

336
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,040
 Like it was more of a line change.

337
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,040
 Yeah.

338
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,040
 Yeah.

339
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,040
 Yeah.

340
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,040
 The lot with --

341
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,040
 Yeah.

342
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,040
 It was making the deed and plot line line up.

343
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,040
 Sorry.

344
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,040
 One final question on my topic.

345
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:13,040
 Is that something that comes out of state code or that is something that comes out of state

346
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,040
 code?

347
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,040
 For the land use, I know for a fact it's in the DDC.

348
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,040
 I can't recall if that is --

349
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,040
 Right.

350
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:24,040
 There's a general principle that variances and your ability to grant them operate like

351
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,040
 a dimmer switch, not like a light switch.

352
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:36,040
 So you can change where on the spectrum something like a setback requirement lands, or you can

353
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,040
 increase the number or decrease the number, but you can't take a no from a yes.

354
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,040
 Because generally speaking, because the no to a yes or yes to a no is more of a legislative

355
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:51,040
 decision that's more in a P&Z council's approval pathway.

356
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,040
 In a state definition?

357
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,040
 Where the principle of the dimmer switch comes from.

358
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,040
 Yeah.

359
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,040
 I'd have to do a little bit of research, but it's just one of those subtle law kind of

360
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,040
 ideas.

361
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,040
 Okay.

362
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,040
 Yeah.

363
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:10,040
 So it's the localities to have these boards, like as per what they're saying, and these

364
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,040
 boards are defined.

365
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:17,040
 Well, in this case, these four items are what state code officially says ZBA can't do, right?

366
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,040
 State code says.

367
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,040
 And has a similar list for planning and zoning.

368
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,040
 Okay.

369
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:32,040
 And so I guess it's like precedent, but like I guess does our -- so we sort of went against

370
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,040
 like a little bit against staff direction, like on my first meeting.

371
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,040
 So is that considered precedent with like, if we make a different decision, could somebody

372
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:46,040
 go back and be like, why did they have previous decisions of ours?

373
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,040
 I think it was a very similar situation, right?

374
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,040
 Possibly.

375
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,040
 We'll have to do the same topic.

376
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,040
 Very specific.

377
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040
 Very specific.

378
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:02,040
 I mean, that's so unlikely.

379
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:07,040
 I like a little bit like legal stuff is sort of interesting.

380
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,040
 Yeah, it's cool.

381
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,040
 I'm not worried.

382
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,040
 Yeah.

383
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:20,040
 I think it would boil down to whether y'all agreed that this second case was factually

384
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:25,040
 similar enough that it should follow along, because we left the subjective criteria to

385
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,040
 y'all of whether hardship was presented.

386
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:35,040
 The more objective criteria staff was in alignment with.

387
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,040
 So I guess appropriate to some of this conversation.

388
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:44,040
 Diving into some of these specifics, I just -- so for appeals of administrative decisions,

389
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,040
 that first item that state law says comes before you all.

390
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:52,040
 It also specifies who can appeal a decision.

391
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:58,040
 So an appeal that is not related to a specific project, application, or address can only

392
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:03,040
 be submitted by very broadly, someone agreed by the decision, so they can prove why they're

393
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:09,040
 agreed and provide that appeal, or an officer, department, or board of the municipality that's

394
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,040
 affected by the decision.

395
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:17,040
 So not likely to happen, but perhaps another city department is -- the fire department

396
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,040
 really disagrees with something planning says.

397
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040
 Technically, they could come before you all in a field.

398
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,040
 Hopefully, we would all work it out like grownups amongst ourselves and not have to bring you

399
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:31,040
 all into that, or say we did something, made a decision with a property that's right on

400
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:36,040
 our city boundary and another city feels like that negatively impacts them.

401
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,040
 I believe that would fall within that umbrella.

402
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,040
 Okay.

403
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,040
 And then the second category are appeals that do relate to a specific application, address,

404
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,040
 or project, and that list allows for either the person who filed the application and we

405
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,040
 said no, or we provided them an interpretation they didn't like.

406
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,040
 The person who owns the property could have made an appeal.

407
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:01,040
 Someone who owns property within 200 feet that is agreed by the decision could make

408
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,040
 an appeal, or again, another municipal department could do that.

409
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,040
 So just a couple of examples that you all may remember where you can go back and watch

410
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,040
 the cases if you just get really bored and need something to watch.

411
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,040
 In this instance, we had a zoning compliance plan that staff approved for multi-family

412
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,040
 development, and in this case, the neighbors brought the appeal to you all because they

413
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,040
 disagreed with staff's approval of that application.

414
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:30,040
 The other case, hypothetical bleach production in a residential area.

415
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,040
 In that case, staff said no, you cannot do that here.

416
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,040
 That's an industrial land use and this is a mixed use zoning district that doesn't allow

417
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,040
 industrial uses, so that business owner brought that appeal before you all.

418
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:49,040
 So you say other municipalities, so UNT or TWU, they would not come before us if they

419
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,040
 disagreed with the city.

420
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:57,040
 So we take a pretty deferential approach with what we ask UNT and the other school you just

421
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:14,040
 asked TWU to do, so if they really didn't like it, I think they could.

422
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,040
 There's already a lot of abbreviations and acronyms in the work.

423
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,040
 There's an acronym limit.

424
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,040
 I'm just going to trust you to hold down the college acronyms.

425
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,040
 Let's be honest, they don't want to be in the press fighting with everybody, so they

426
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,040
 work it out.

427
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,040
 To be fair, UNT has protested items before council for specific use permits.

428
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,040
 I can think of one where UNT showed up and protested and the council said no.

429
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,040
 It can happen.

430
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,040
 So this structure sort of doesn't give renters very much rights.

431
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:53,040
 In that hypothetical case of the tenant of the apartment building, they have very limited

432
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,040
 recourse under this state law structure.

433
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,040
 I suppose maybe for the project specific, I see where you're coming from, because those

434
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,040
 all do specify honor.

435
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040
 That wasn't the top one?

436
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:12,040
 Under the general appeal of the decision, so say someone, if those apartments were built

437
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,040
 and someone renting there disagreed with, you know, maybe they applied for a permit for

438
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:23,040
 a fencer in a dog park or something and they said no, a renter perhaps then could be considered

439
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,040
 a person agreed by that, maybe?

440
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,040
 We take a pretty broad approach.

441
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,040
 So, yeah.

442
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,040
 It's challenging with renters.

443
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,040
 Yeah, and I'm just sitting here trying to decide how much.

444
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:43,040
 So in my personal opinion, as Hillary Negron, not as city employer, oh no, actually, I'll

445
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:49,040
 just go ahead, more due process is better than less due process.

446
00:24:49,040 --> 00:25:02,040
 And if we can accommodate someone who might have a good argument or whatever, we might

447
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,040
 go ahead and take it, but I can't think of the time that has happened.

448
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040
 And they would fill out a card and come and speak to us, wouldn't they?

449
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,040
 Yeah, certainly, I mean, in any of these instances with the bleach production, we were not checking

450
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,040
 people's addresses at the door and say, do you own or rent the property that you want

451
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,040
 to come speak on this item?

452
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,040
 They might not be able to speak on the item.

453
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:31,040
 And that would be sort of an internal decision among city attorney's office and development

454
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,040
 services of how we wanted to proceed.

455
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,040
 And that's because it's information that's valuable to people.

456
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,040
 And it's also, it's really difficult to get renters to speak up on their own behalf, if

457
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,040
 they don't.

458
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,040
 Right.

459
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,040
 So there's a number of policy considerations as well.

460
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,040
 I know.

461
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,040
 I mean, even people 500 feet don't get notice on that one.

462
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,040
 They find out about a freak out.

463
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,040
 So with appeals, the other important thing to know is just very time specific in terms

464
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,040
 of every aspect of them.

465
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,040
 So once a decision is rendered, the appeal has to be submitted not less than, not later

466
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,040
 than 20 days after the date the decision was made.

467
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:16,040
 Once that happens, all other proceedings related to it are just put on pause.

468
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,040
 And then we have to get you all to convene for two meetings to hear and then decide the

469
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,040
 item within 60 days of the date of that application being filed with us.

470
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,040
 So that's why on occasion, if we're not able to get court with a regular meeting, but we

471
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,040
 have an appeal that's in process, you might see Carly blowing up your email like, hey,

472
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,040
 here's a survey monkey.

473
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,040
 What dates are you all available?

474
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:43,040
 And then we're holding two back to back meetings if we need to get it done within that timeframe.

475
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,040
 Those have to be open, heard, closed.

476
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,040
 Open, heard, closed.

477
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,040
 Yes.

478
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,040
 Okay.

479
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,040
 Because we did something wrong once, I remember.

480
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,040
 We had an opening once.

481
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,040
 Yes.

482
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,040
 Heard it.

483
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,040
 And then pause it for the first.

484
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,040
 I mean, we're sorry right now.

485
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,040
 We still have quorum.

486
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,040
 We have three.

487
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,040
 Okay.

488
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,040
 We don't have quorum for making a decision.

489
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,040
 Sure, we have.

490
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,040
 Okay.

491
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,040
 Just some other items related to this.

492
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,040
 If you do read the city code, we built it to align with Texas local government code and

493
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,040
 all of those timelines.

494
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,040
 Our DDC also defines the minimum written content.

495
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,040
 So we try to make sure that the person providing the appeal has given you all full facts, everything

496
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,040
 that code sections that they think we've misinterpreted, the reasoning behind it.

497
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,040
 We take whatever other documentation that they may want to provide and pass all of that

498
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,040
 along to you all as a complete application.

499
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,040
 And trust me, we do set it.

500
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,040
 There's occasions where Hillary and I are like, so we don't feel like they're making much

501
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,040
 case here to help themselves.

502
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,040
 So we try to toss them actually like, hey, before we accept this, can you all give some

503
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,040
 additional thought to this?

504
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,040
 The board's going to want to know the answers to these questions.

505
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,040
 So we try to bring you as complete of an application as we can.

506
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,040
 You will find on appeals staff will not make a recommendation.

507
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,040
 The code does require that we provide you all the facts.

508
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040
 We provide you the analysis of how our decision was made.

509
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:12,040
 The applicant gives their rationale and then it is up to you all to make that decision.

510
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040
 There are criteria for approval in the development code.

511
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:22,040
 There are 13 very general criteria like does this align with a comprehensive plan?

512
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,040
 Things like of that nature that technically do apply in an appeal.

513
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,040
 And then it also states that you all should weigh the facts as stated in the application

514
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,040
 and presented by the appellant and the director, as well as the requirements and intent of

515
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,040
 the applicable standards.

516
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,040
 So you'll find that we'll try to give you as much background information as we can as

517
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:47,040
 to why the code requirement is what it is so that you can weigh that in your decision.

518
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,040
 You as the board can either affirm staff's decision, reverse our decision in whole or

519
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,040
 in part, amend the decision.

520
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,040
 And if you feel that it's necessary for health, safety, welfare of the city, you can also

521
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,040
 attach conditions.

522
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:05,040
 So you might say we reverse staff's decision, but we're going to put these caveats on here.

523
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,040
 And then again, that decision that you all make can be appealed to a district court within

524
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,040
 10 days.

525
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,040
 And this is the big one on appeals.

526
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,040
 Your decision is binding on our future decisions.

527
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:22,040
 So the fact that in that previous case, you all said bleach production is high impact

528
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,040
 manufacturing, we concur with staff's interpretation.

529
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,040
 Anyone else that wants to produce bleach in the city of Denton, that's how we'll classify

530
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:33,040
 that land use, even though it's not specifically listed in our table of uses.

531
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,040
 And that would continue to apply until someone else decides to appeal that decision and then

532
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,040
 take it to our city council.

533
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,040
 So here our council amends the code.

534
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,040
 Variances are the second category that you'll see.

535
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,040
 So just a couple of examples that you've seen.

536
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,040
 There we have our very recent lot width example.

537
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,040
 So that's the more typical thing that you'll see as a variance or those numeric standards

538
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,040
 because we do have very strict, you know, this is the maximum height the building can be.

539
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040
 This is the minimum lot width depth, minimum setbacks.

540
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,040
 Those are things, especially in the older parts of town, you'll see are somewhat common

541
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,040
 to come before you all as variances.

542
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,040
 The other example on the screen is that parking example.

543
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,040
 That's a little more unique.

544
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,040
 You don't see a whole lot of those because in a lot of those more performance standard

545
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,040
 type things, you'll see that the development code offers people a lot of flexibility typically

546
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,040
 or gives staff a lot of flexibility.

547
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,040
 In that case, they had existed the limits of staff's flexibility.

548
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040
 So it came before you all.

549
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:37,040
 So in this case, the variance can only be used if the strict application of the code

550
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,040
 would create an unnecessary hardship or not allow someone the ability to develop their

551
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:47,040
 property in a way that would be common for other properties in that condition or if there's

552
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,040
 unique conditions associated with the property.

553
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,040
 And in both of these cases, you all found that there were unique circumstances and found

554
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,040
 the ability to grant that variance there.

555
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,040
 And again, that last bullet is what we touched on earlier.

556
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,040
 You cannot use a variance to allow a use in a zoning district where it's not currently

557
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:12,040
 allowed, and it can't be solely to alleviate inconvenience and financial burden.

558
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,040
 For variances, you will find that staff does provide you a recommendation on those.

559
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,040
 The code gives us the criteria and authorization to do so.

560
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,040
 A variance is specific to that property.

561
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,040
 It does a transfer, and it will expire after 24 months.

562
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,040
 So if someone's coming before you all or in the case of the lot with, for example, if

563
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,040
 he failed to follow through with the plat that he was seeking to do for that property

564
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,040
 for two years, that variance would expire and he would be back here asking for it again

565
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,040
 if that...

566
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,040
 Or the new order would be.

567
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,040
 Or the new order, perhaps, if they decided to walk away.

568
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,040
 Again, appeals on a variance would go to court.

569
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040
 There's that 10-day limit.

570
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,040
 And then the variance can be suspended or revoked if it's determined that there's failure

571
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,040
 to comply with any terms.

572
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:04,040
 So if you all attach conditions to a variance and then our zoning inspectors go out and

573
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040
 find that someone has violated those, we could suspend or revoke that variance.

574
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,040
 Would it come through here or would it just automatically?

575
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,040
 I believe that is a staff-level revocation and they could appeal that to you all.

576
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,040
 All right.

577
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,040
 We'll go through these in detail.

578
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,040
 You'll see them regularly, but we can send these slides up to you all just so you have

579
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,040
 them handy for future reference.

580
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,040
 So I wanted to make sure you had the criteria for approval.

581
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,040
 So again, it's looking for things.

582
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,040
 Is it something specific to the conditions of the property?

583
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:40,040
 Would there be any harm or detriment to public welfare if the variance was granted?

584
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,040
 And one of the key ones, I think, is C, when you're looking at numeric standards, is it

585
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,040
 the minimum needed to accomplish the purpose?

586
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,040
 So if someone comes before you all and they're like, "Well, I can build my house," you grant

587
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,040
 me a five-foot relief.

588
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,040
 But really, I'd like you to grant me a 20-foot relief for the setback just because.

589
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,040
 It's like, no, you can have five.

590
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,040
 You prove you can do it with five, five is what it is.

591
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,040
 So again, you'll see these in every case when we bring the variance before you all.

592
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,040
 We'll make sure that you all have these conditions handy.

593
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,040
 This is one of those other categories that the DDC throws to you all.

594
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:21,040
 It's not something I would hazard a guess that we will see done ever, probably.

595
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,040
 Maybe, but I've been here nine years and I've never seen it stupid.

596
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:30,040
 So the DDC does speak to if a non-conforming use is going to be amortized, meaning counsel

597
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,040
 is going to say, "We're buying you out.

598
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,040
 We're getting rid of you.

599
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,040
 You've got X amount of time to get off of this property and stop what you're doing."

600
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,040
 That schedule would come before you all to decide.

601
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,040
 So it's, again, not something I've seen counsel do, but it is something that falls into the

602
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,040
 bucket of ZBA's authority if we ever need to do so if a non-conforming use becomes so

603
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,040
 problematic that counsel decides we're going to end it.

604
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:58,040
 So basically, if I'm hearing this right, it's when the city buys a property and they're

605
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,040
 vacating.

606
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,040
 Not necessarily that we're buying it.

607
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,040
 I could provide an example here.

608
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,040
 Sure.

609
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:11,040
 So the city of Dallas has had a number of cases of very polluting land uses that were

610
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:17,040
 not authorized to be in the areas that they were in, technically, but for legacy reasons,

611
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:24,040
 the city didn't particularly care about the communities that were nearby those uses.

612
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,040
 So Shingle Mountain is quite famous.

613
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:34,040
 There was a decades-long campaign by neighbors there to get the city to say, "Hey, this doesn't

614
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
 comply with your zoning," because it didn't.

615
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,040
 And eventually, the city finally comes and says, "Yes, okay, so this doesn't comply with

616
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,040
 your zoning.

617
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,040
 You have to clean it up and get it out of here if you're just doing this."

618
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,040
 I think that would probably be an example of this.

619
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:52,040
 The closest that I've seen to this would be when I saw city council basically annex a

620
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:58,040
 piece of property because the person went against the agreement of non-annexation.

621
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,040
 That's a different idea.

622
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,040
 I mean, that's the most similar thing I've seen.

623
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,040
 So there's so many things that are going to happen before this process.

624
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,040
 The staff goal is to make sure it never comes before.

625
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,040
 Yeah, that's why it doesn't come is because it gets sold.

626
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,040
 Yeah.

627
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:21,040
 First of all, if it's a non-conforming use that doesn't seem to be hurting anyone, it's

628
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,040
 going to keep going.

629
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,040
 A huge financial burden on the city.

630
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,040
 It really would be.

631
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:34,040
 And if there's a use that is non-conforming and is causing problems, then staff will work

632
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,040
 with the owner to remove non-conforming.

633
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,040
 That was the tires.

634
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,040
 There was somebody who was doing outside storage that didn't quite work.

635
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,040
 Yeah.

636
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,040
 But not eventually at all.

637
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,040
 It worked its way.

638
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,040
 It never came across as VA.

639
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,040
 Yeah, for the most part, we can work with most people.

640
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,040
 The Shingle Mound is a great example.

641
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,040
 If there was something so offensive that it was causing environmental hazard or something

642
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,040
 of that nature, perhaps.

643
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,040
 This is one I doubt any of us will ever have to worry about.

644
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,040
 We're pretty fortunate we don't have that many noxious uses in the city of Denton that

645
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,040
 we would need to go to this level because the state does provide pretty robust standards

646
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:24,040
 for how the city has to go about essentially paying for any value that they can prove they

647
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,040
 have left in their property.

648
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,040
 Especially eminent domain.

649
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,040
 No.

650
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,040
 I've been around long enough to remember.

651
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,040
 What?

652
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,040
 Basically, you have to stop and you have to do something different with the property.

653
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,040
 So we have to pay them for the lost property.

654
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:43,040
 I've been around long enough to remember when I guess somewhere in California kicked out

655
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:49,040
 of Sriracha because people's eyes were burning and all kinds of stuff, and one of our city

656
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,040
 councilors went on a campaign, "Let's have them come here!"

657
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,040
 And everybody at Denton was kind of like...

658
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,040
 You know, like Dallas Magazine or something, the e-magazine.

659
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,040
 They wanted to come to Denton because, you know...

660
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,040
 He was never really leaving California.

661
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,040
 That was a whole other thing.

662
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,040
 I know, yeah.

663
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,040
 So that was a mess.

664
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,040
 We haven't reached the end of our fun that quickly.

665
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,040
 You sure?

666
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,040
 Let's see.

667
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,040
 Just a couple more slides.

668
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,040
 So last topic I'll cover with you all.

669
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,040
 And again, this is really intended to be kind of that summary that you all can refer to

670
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,040
 in the future if you need it.

671
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,040
 It's just sign code variances.

672
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,040
 Another pretty common case type to come before you all.

673
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,040
 Our code does give us 45 days to get these processed once they're submitted.

674
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,040
 So again, sometimes you'll see us calling on you for an off-schedule meeting if the

675
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,040
 quorum is not going to work at a regular time.

676
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,040
 In this case, it specifies that you can't grant a variance to the sign code solely to

677
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,040
 authorize a sign type that's not allowed.

678
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,040
 It's similar to that allowing a use that's not allowed.

679
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,040
 You can't just flip that switch.

680
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,040
 And it can't be just for personal convenience or financial hardship.

681
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,040
 It has to be something related to the property itself.

682
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,040
 We approved a hospital variance.

683
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,040
 That was fine.

684
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,040
 It didn't be before I was anywhere near it, but approved at Horrible Bucky's.

685
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,040
 Yes.

686
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,040
 So in this case, again, you've got pretty strict criteria that we would look for you

687
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,040
 to find that it meets, again, related to something unique with the property itself,

688
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,040
 something that would create an unnecessary hardship.

689
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,040
 And we have to be able to say that it wouldn't violate the spirit and intent of the code.

690
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,040
 So just more recent examples for you all to think of.

691
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,040
 Like the Old West, we saw that in the property next door in one meeting where

692
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,040
 TxDOT was requiring the relocation of their signs.

693
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,040
 They'd been there for decades and didn't meet the strict numeric standards of the

694
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,040
 code as it's written today.

695
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,040
 But again, because of the unique situation they were in with TxDOT and being

696
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,040
 forced to relocate, you all were able to grant the variance.

697
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:53,040
 And then one thing you all denied was the Plains Capital Bank here close by that

698
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,040
 didn't have a compelling, unique reason related to the property as to why that

699
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,040
 sign needed to be internally illuminated in that close proximity to residents.

700
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:08,040
 So in that case, that variance was not successful.

701
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:13,040
 And then the one type of special exception we do have in our code, I mentioned earlier,

702
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,040
 the zoning code does not deal with special exceptions.

703
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,040
 The sign code allows two conditions where there is a special exception that the

704
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,040
 board can grant.

705
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:26,040
 And that's if there's a visibility obstruction, which I hope we don't feel

706
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,040
 like because of the math and calculating what that obstruction is from a 0.6 feet

707
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,040
 in height at a parallel plane and all of the things in that definition just blow

708
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,040
 my mind.

709
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,040
 We've done it once or twice, but it doesn't come up often, thankfully.

710
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,040
 And then the second is for medical emergency signs.

711
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:48,040
 So that one, I think I've seen one or two signs that have tried to come forward

712
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,040
 with that.

713
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,040
 So that's a unique case as well where it does authorize for the emergency treatment

714
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,040
 signs to have some flexibility compared to the rest of the signs.

715
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,040
 It wasn't near a residential neighborhood.

716
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,040
 It was where there was a lot going on.

717
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,040
 Was it Med Park?

718
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:09,040
 It was across from CVS and my vet.

719
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,040
 And it barked the backyards with trees or something.

720
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,040
 I don't remember.

721
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,040
 And they needed a second sign because people comes from one direction, couldn't tell

722
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,040
 them without.

723
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,040
 And it was an emergency.

724
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,040
 So again, we don't see them very often, but those two you might see come before you

725
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,040
 in terms of special exceptions instead of variances.

726
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,040
 And they'll have different criteria than the variance would.

727
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040
 It has to strictly meet one of these two definitions in those cases.

728
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,040
 And with that, that's all I wanted to cover.

729
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,040
 But we're happy to answer any other questions.

730
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,040
 You'll have asked a lot of good ones so far.

731
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,040
 Yeah.

732
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,040
 Hillary, anything you think we missed?

733
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,040
 Yeah.

734
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,040
 Okay, that's good.

735
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,040
 We've got a rocking CBA right now.

736
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,040
 Did we make your brain work?

737
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,040
 Yeah, it's all good.

738
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,040
 The engagement always makes us happy.

739
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,040
 It's good to know you all take the role and the power seriously.

740
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,040
 But yeah, I'll have Carly send out these slides to you all so you have them as a reference

741
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,040
 point for two other members as well that weren't able to join us.

742
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,040
 Let us know if you have any questions.

743
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,040
 Raising capable successors.

744
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,040
 Thank you all.

745
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,040
 Would you like to close the meeting?

746
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,040
 Oh yeah, I guess I have to close the meeting.

747
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,040
 So to close the meeting, I just say that meeting is adjourned.

748
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,040
 Thank you.

749
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,040
 Do you want to ask?

750
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,040
 Yep.

751
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,040
 Sounds good.

752
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,040
 Okay.

753
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,040
 All right, thank you all.

754
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,040
 Of course.

755
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:33,040
 Thank you very much.