Jan 13, 2025 Historic Landmark Commission on 2025-01-13 5:30 PM

Okay we are going to call the meeting to order. It is Monday January 13, 2025. It is 5 32 p.m. If you will please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to be Texas one state under God one and indivisible. Thank you guys. And I don't see anyone from the audience has signed up for to speak today. Well we're good. We're good. So nothing there unless there's something I don't know about. Okay let's go to item HLC 25-001. Consider approval of the December 9th 2024 minutes. I move for approval. Thank you for that. I'll second it. And Lenny seconding that. All right approve. Raise your hand say aye. Aye. I need to not approve. Okay thank you for that. Motion carries. And our next item is HLC 24-062. We're going to elect a chair and vice chair to the historic landmark commission. And so what we'll do now is take nominations for our chair. I know that Angie. Excuse me. All right. And I would need a second. Okay thank you for that. So we can vote. We don't need to do another right. Anyone else have want to make a motion? Okay so Lenny has made the motion for myself and Shawn has seconded that. All in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Okay. Thank you guys. I'll save my reservation to be later. All right and now we need to do vice chair so we need a motion for our vice chair. I'll nominate Shawn. Thank you Lenny. Thank you. And a second. We have a second. A second. Okay thank you very much. All right and all right we have a motion and a second for Shawn. All in favor raise your hand say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Shawn you can keep your seat. That's right. Thank you all. Appreciate that. All right we are going to continue on with HLC 24-060. We're going to receive a report and hold the discussion and give staff direction on the historic landmark commission's request for our local historic designation of eligible historic properties. So does anyone have one? By the way did you see the picture of Frosty up on did you do that? Any word from that one? Okay anyone else have any properties that you would like to get our eye on? It's a new year. It is an old brave new year. Have we uh can I ask for a report or did we wait till after we? Well it says and hold a report. Receive a report. So yes. I'm just curious if we have had any response from the ladies club members to join us. They were invited a couple of times I believe. I have not heard any. I haven't heard anything. Okay. Okay. Well in the spirit of new year new you maybe we could send them another like hey we like do this pretty regularly. No no no no. Oh she was asked a question. I was going to let you answer her. I'm sorry. So Councilman Sherman had a question on who you were speaking of. Oh and I told her. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Anyone else? You guys are quiet on this side of the table over here. It's a new perspective. It is. Yes. Taking it all in. Oh he's kidding. I mean we issued an invitation. Do we just not get any response or or federation? The dead women's club? Yes. So Sean had Eric Bishner treat had extended an invite and then at that time I talked about that there is that larger discussion that does need to happen with parks department and everything because they are designated landmark property and parks has not begun any of its discussions regarding Quigartown Park and what the I guess the design for the park is in the future. So maybe that is potentially what kind of like is holding it up in terms of there's no what is the discussion that's going to take place when we're kind of like ahead of the game. Does that make sense? Yeah yeah well let's kind of get ahead of it right and say hey we're interested. Correct yeah but I think it is a larger discussion where parks needs to be involved since they would be the ones who have to maintain anything that does go into the park. So if we if that's something that you all want to do I would say that's more of a matrix item where we bring that forward and say have a meeting with parks department or parks board and HLC and kind of starting the discussions of that historic narrative for at the Quigartown Park design. And that's come up before and I thought it was on the matrix so that is our next item on the agenda that we can move into that for any other discussion on eligible properties. Okay let's move to that one that'll give us more in line. How about HLC 25-002 hold the discussion regarding the historic landmark commissions project matrix. So these are our current requests that are on the matrix. We have two ongoing the historic tax assumption discussion. I know we started that back in the summer. That's definitely coming to you all in on February 10th so hopefully everyone can be in attendance that night. It's going to be I think quite an interesting discussion to have and staff will be presenting three different options to you all. So those are getting finalized this week and next so I think it'll be great. We obviously last meeting there was that discussion regarding the marketing for historic preservation program forming new partnerships. So that's going to be brought back in early 2025. I figured probably not the best to have that on the February meeting. Most likely looking at the March meeting for that one. And then this focus group discussion which is going to basically piggyback on that historic tax assumption discussion will be the focus group. And then we obviously we have our items for HLC's consideration and then we have our annual update which I've updated with the new 2025 goals that you all discussed last meeting. So those are on here as well. And then all the meetings for the rest of the year. But this is where I would recommend because the previous request was invite the Dent women's group to come and have a discussion. And I believe like I said we discussed that in October and so we had put that on pause but I think if we want if you all are interested in having discussion I would make it a little bit more specific and state that we would like to have start the preliminary discussions with the Dent women's club along with the parks board commission if that makes sense. Yes it just seemed that the park is being redone and if the women's club members or participants wish to have some say about what is written or flags or anything about that particular building I think they'd want to get in early. I agree I'm going to disagree a little bit about bringing parks in at this point because if it's just discussions I think there could be a time that we would want to bring parks department in. But I think for just preliminary talking about it I think it would be I don't think that's necessary. I agree with that just keep it more of just like a chat that I want to information gather and find out if you have thoughts and what those might be. And then I mean this isn't even we're not talking plans or anything we're just asking right just get what's what's in your head what's going on and yeah just information gather just get some opinion. Are you all looking for a conversation for them to tell you what they would like to see once parks start from the plan what they envision their building? And as as related to their property probably specifically right and its use and things and I know there were some questions about lease conditions but we'll we can we'll handle that as it comes but I'm just curious I'm just curious to hear whether it's that. Who holds the lease? The city. So the city owns the property and the city federation of women's club. They gave a lot. The lease is long. Okay. And when was it up? 100 years. 100 year lease. Yeah but when was it up? I think 2028. Okay. Is it 2026 or 2028? Yeah yeah that's what I remember. And the building is already a storage land. Correct. So what could they do? I mean they're supposed to there when they redo the whole park and and have the tours and all there's likely to be new signage relative to that building. So that's primarily it is signage it's not doing anything to the building because that's protected right? Yeah we know we're not going to do anything to the building per se. I just want to know because if they've got needs we don't know about you know what I mean? It's like how is the building? I haven't been in there. I don't know. Well I know they've had needs through the years and gotten grants from different funders but for window updates and I think AC maybe and different things through the years that. So hence just want to have a conversation just to kind of get everybody caught up on the same page and say tell us where your head's at what your needs are what kinds of things we can be looking for and because yeah I mean while there's so many other pieces in this plan it would be really easy to get overlooked I think for that to happen. And I think that the honest truth is that since it's now Quaker Town Park and the story of Quaker County is to be told and whether everybody knows it or not but the women's club were the ones who worked very hard to get the people moved out of Quaker Town Park and the building was given to them as a thank you for having done that and that story hasn't been told in the park and it will be this time so you know this was like giving them a chance to come forth and. So I think this should be added to the matrix. I'm wondering though if this should be more of an informal conversation versus putting them on the spot in a meeting. Well I was thinking of an informal conversation but that's why I thought we might have heard from them. Right well I don't know that we've laid it out like that to say hey we would just like to have a discussion. I think it has to be a formal meeting for Quorum present so that's why but an informal formal meeting but informal conversation within it just for them to be free to speak what they think what their ideas are not that we can do it we can't say yes no anything right but just have open up the communication I think is key. It does I'm looking at legal though because I don't want to put anyone because I've had these informal conversations with Denton Women's Club and I think if they I think for people knowing they're being recorded that it's online they don't feel as free to express and have honest conversation so that is my only and I'm not saying we don't want it to be transparent I don't I'm not saying that anything's going to be hidden but I think if we're having a hard conversation like the history of the Denton Women's Club I don't think we should be putting people on camera to have that kind of conversation. Maybe further on down the line when there's more solid plans coming out of it and more of like discussing about the actual narrative what goes in the class but I don't think those kind of initial breaking the ice conversations necessarily need to be in a formal meeting setting. I think I would tend to agree with that. I mean to have everyone you have to have a quorum so is there so we're going to ask legal is there a way with any of that fit in a closed session at all? Not likely no I mean I think that there's a concern about it wouldn't recommend going out and each of you trying to talk to people and I think you if you're sort of doing that and then talking to each other and you get into walking quorum kind of issues potentially. I don't know what can recommend I think maybe staff could talk to some people and maybe they could provide a report to y'all and that would avoid the issues but yeah I'm not super hot on the idea of sort of out of meeting discussions about what y'all are supposed to be talking about publicly here. I don't know how to square that circle. The staff point is we could check in with parks to see where they are if they've had any conversations and not feel like we're stepping on any toes we're trying to reach out and talk to them from our setting point. Remember we just check in with parks and see what they're talking about. I agree with I don't want to step on toes but I to my point earlier I'd like to have the discussion with them and not bring parks in. Parks is the one that has to do that keep it separate we don't even know that they're going to ask for anything that requires that so just to just to have the conversation I'm excited with legal on to have it an official meeting with quorum so we do everything correctly and I do feel like it can still be informal but I would leave it up to them on if they're comfortable with that and just that you know we're not holding anything in stone. If they would I don't think we know until we try. Those are my thoughts. My concern is just that we not get to the point that somebody is designated to write up something and perhaps put a plaque on the building or something and they feel like they were left out and didn't have any input. That's so that would still have to come through you all right so there would never be a point where a plaque is just put up on their building because that's something that you all have jurisdiction over. So I see what everyone's saying I just am coming from this point where staff has had other conversations and they have been pretty emotional and they have felt targeted so I just don't want anyone to feel targeted in a public setting that's recorded because staff has had those past conversations whether it be myself or parks department and we we obviously didn't want that to be the situation but it just felt like it was a pretty high emotional experience. Do you think that was because it was information they hadn't heard before or they were unaware of history or what was the reason for that? I think it was from what staff was kind of the feeling that staff I think caught was that we were going to take what has been that history being established over the last hundred years we were going to take that away if that makes sense even though that wasn't the kind of conversation we were having it was just more like hey you know your lease is going to be coming up let's have conversations and then so as staff I'm just trying to find a balance I don't want to put anyone where they feel like they're on trial but at the same time we do need to have transparent open conversations so I will let you all direct me as staff what to do but I'm just giving you all some background as to why kind of I'm have been leaning towards more of like let's have a preliminary conversation outside of this room but I get what legal is saying as well we want it so I think we'll just have to be however the meeting is set up for that discussion I think it's just the wording and how it's addressed just needs to be trend lightly yeah right that's why I was so concerned that we at least open up the conversation before the action was to be taken yeah I'm still catching that perhaps yes sorry do you think it would do any good if you talk to whoever's in charge of federation again and to try to get the feel for what what kind of input they'd like to have or actually and I think that Commissioner Sherman I'm gonna let you go because um so that sounded to me like that their concern is that they may not be able to renew their lease I mean I thought that's kind of what I heard and what you just said and if that's the case I understand they I think that's part of it and is that I just want to pause for a second because all right we're talking about whether to talk about this and so getting into the details I'm trying to understand why they wouldn't want to talk about it now I've heard it and and I know a lot of these women so and I'm not going to talk to one of them I promise because this is the first I've known of this I'm just trying to figure out why would there be a problem oh if it's about not renewing their lease then they're probably I don't think it's about not renewing their lease okay it's about the language it might appear on a marker and I think that's a very reason why we need the communication and I think the wording even for staff to contact them needs to be this is not to discuss xyz this is not and I don't mean putting it like that but these are the things this is what we do not want we are not here to do that this is what our goal is and to open it up for that communication that would be my ideal and that's why I'd like to see it on the matrix and do we need two people to say put it on the matrix three we need three people so I need two more to go with me here on to put it on the matrix okay fisher sherman yeah yes and also fisherman again so we're good well so just to clarify what we're putting on the matrix so the idea here is to go to them are we directing staff to go to them to have a conversation on behalf that we want to open a conversation or are we trying to set up a conversation with us here thank you for clarifying that's what i'm having so my idea was for staff to open the conversation for them to come and have the conversation with the submission thank you yeah we already have three yeah yeah we don't want to leave you guys out over here they're still getting adjusted that side of the room clearly i'm sorry we keep switching the seating to see what works that's true that's true okay any other items that you guys could think of at the matrix so let me ask some guidance from staff on this in terms of like what we're trying to prioritize because i'm thinking um first next and then later um so the idea is that there's going to be specifically for historic preservation for there to be like some type of education process which we have them clarified for us or are they already in place and we're just trying to now socialize business owners and then create next step some type of focus groups with historic property owners is that somewhat close to ballpoint i think i got a little confused what you're trying okay so sorry these are prioritized anyway um but if that would help you all for me to prioritize it that's fine or in terms i guess like of how they feed into one another if they do but like continuation of historic tax assumption discussion obviously is ongoing that will be coming in february once you all decide have that discussion chick pick your options then that's going to trigger okay let's have that focus group of historic property owners to kind of talk about the option that you all have chosen and discussed and then the two others are just separate thank you that's clear yeah of course i'm happy to kind of group over that thanks only if you're drawing lines yes of course i'm a visual person so i have a possible item but i want to hear first anyone else has anything okay so i'm wondering in our historic districts around it and on signs that we have or in signs going into the district coming out in the district those types of things to maybe put on the matrix on to know what's there and if we should work on beautification i guess i don't really know how to say say that but to um make the designation pop that makes sense like have a lot of pride in that you're in a historic district now that type of and and i know it's going to look you know is it on city property if you put a sign there so i'd kind of like to know what is in each district and maybe thoughts or what if we could do something what we might want to do so just to clarify or um so what are you saying looking at kind of like streetscapes of what is in each district or looking at what signage is currently i was thinking signage at heart and i'll tell you what prompted me this is because i heard that for a few of our districts that they had put it on that district to actually pay for signs and that type of thing and i've never heard that before because they're not like a real hoa type thing yeah and with it being deemed having commissions over it with the city i kind of my thought was that's kind of on us but i'd like to know what's there first if if we thought hey let's do something or not do something um that was just my thought how many districts are there are that three three and looking at another oak and hickory and and bill so oak and hickory are separate so okay oh sorry oak hickory bell abt and then um west oak okay west oak area sorry yeah okay i just thought for a new year that so i need other people come along with me if you think that's it that was just a thought coming in so i'd like to put that down as a discussion item um yeah especially to think about how some of the other districts might be highlighted in a way that also helps to draw attention and as you say some maybe even neighborhood crime and that fact okay we have two we need one more yeah yes i uh no i think i mean we got the opportunity to walk i only got to walk one with y'all six children but um and it was the west oak that we did and it was you know in certain parts that it's kind of clear in other parts it's not it'd be interesting to see what the signage looks like and what how we might improve or make it a little bit more visible yeah all right anyone else anything else do we have oh sorry yeah i was gonna ask do we have days for the ribbon cuttings so i do have some concluding items yes um so ribbon cutting days we're still waiting on a few more responses um from folks so if you can let carly know um what your kind of preferred dates and times are or days and times are for ribbon cuttings that'd be great um in terms of just boot camp reminder for those who are participating i know there's three people coming this friday for boot camp um in that we have one person attending the 31st so if you haven't responded um let carly know also which date the 17th or the 31st if you can come for that boot camp um they're both fridays uh in terms of kind of building off that boot camp uh meetings are only now going to be really focused on special topic items that you all are interested in learning about say like solar panels and everything the boot camp is going to be kind of that preservation 101 so we're not going to really be covering like certificates of appropriateness or um designations all that kind of just like basics those are going to be held in the boot camp moving forward um and so meetings will be for any special topics that the commission wants to learn about um ebers farm update uh that is going to work session um city council work session on february fourth um i know that a non-profit has been formed um by some denton citizens and they are basing it off of a community center in born texas and i'm going to look up the name real quick because i forgot to write it down but um it's called the cibolo center c-i-b-o-l-o center in born texas b-o-r-m-e now yeah it's born b-o-r-m-e it's burn bernie b-o-e-r-n-e yeah it has an extra e in bernie she said it's just b-o-r-n-e oh yeah that's what i was looking for how was that legal i googled cibolo center for conservation it's in bernie oh well the email that i got was born so okay so um okay okay we believe but yes so it's the center so there's that discussion of me center and a non-profit has been formed i'm not sure if that's gonna be part of the work session on the fourth i know that work sessions being led by parks i was told by um miss howie tin that she had notified them about this community center so um there might be more conversations but i want to give you all that update so february 4th work session discussing evers farm um civic center pool quaker town pool isr we're still waiting on parks to submit that to city council um as we know that came forward as a two-minute pitch by a council member back back in october um but the isr has not been put in a Friday report but so i'm still monitoring it and once that comes out i will forward that to you all and then um that's it can you clarify one thing that you said for me yep so you said coas and things won't come before us so yes so coas like so the educational part of coas and designations and tax assumptions all that kind of stuff kind of your back to basics that's all going to be held during the boot camp but no you will still be seeing coas any historic tax assumptions um but no more like i guess educational yeah education of it it'll be held at the boot camp makes total sense thank you for that because i'm sorry you know yeah thank you for clarifying and one other thing and i don't know if there's something on a report can that we can get like how many coas that you're doing or i'm not saying that you have to like but i think like hey we saw uptake this month or you know i just wonder if the spring breeze on more coas and things just she's busy yeah and the things that before had to come to the commission that now that you take i think it's wonderful but i think there's things that you know just like how many we don't need to know individually sure um i did give an update at the end of i did uh our annual update which unfortunately we're not able to make that meeting on december 9th right so i kind of i gave an overview of everything but uh next meeting on in february you all will be seeing three coas so oh well okay windows windows windows um but yes i'm more than happy to kind of give you all like a update and say hey we've gotten one coir oh i haven't gotten anything this month so i'm more than happy to do that so that you guys can enjoy as we progress through the year no i think it's a great idea and on that note i want to congratulate staff on their wins for 2025 and having it was a record number of what was it properties designated yeah oh 2024 2024 yes sorry we just got here i know that's right i'm still dealing with it still transitioning myself all right any other completing items all right we will be adjourned at six oh six pm