1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,020 Okay, it's 8 o'clock and we do have a quorum, so let's call the meeting to order. 2 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:23,720 The first item on the agenda is receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff 3 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,680 direction regarding the care management and proposed reuse of the closed City of Denton 4 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,040 Moseley Road landfill. 5 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,880 Good morning, Brian. 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:38,000 Good morning members of the committee, Brian Burner, I am the director of solid waste for 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000 the City of Denton. 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,880 I appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit about the Moseley Road landfill. 9 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,320 This is one of the City of Denton's historic landfills and I want to give you a short 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,840 history of it, talk about some regulatory requirements, we have some issues that need 11 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,020 to be addressed out of the facility, I'm going to be talking about some potential future 12 00:00:56,020 --> 00:01:02,040 uses of the landfill also and identify some fiscal impacts as a result of this. 13 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,320 Moseley Road landfill, again, is one of our original landfills here at the City of Denton. 14 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:11,600 It was originally permitted by the Texas Department of Health back in 1974, operated for approximately 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,600 ten years before we moved to our current site in mid-1985. 16 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,680 The site total is about 75 acres, 40 of it, which constituted the disposal area proper. 17 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:31,120 Again, this site is out of closure and post-closure process, it is technically it's called a voluntary 18 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,980 revocation of the permit, which means we've asked that it be closed, it's not accepting 19 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:42,460 any more waste, basically it's just a large open field at the site with the trash still 20 00:01:42,460 --> 00:01:46,400 on it, but again it has some current site issues that we need to address. 21 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,960 Again it's aged, the recent rains we've been having over the past few years, we're seeing 22 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:57,600 some subsidence occurring at the site and as a result, there's ponding water due to 23 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,120 the settling, erosion from the runoff, things that we have to address. 24 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,120 This landfill is actually located in Denton County on the east side of Lake Louisville 25 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,000 but it's bounded on the northeast and south side by the City of Crossroads and you have 26 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,400 to access the road, or access the landfill through the City of Crossroads on their maintained 27 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,040 roadways. 28 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,480 Looking at it here, just a little bit of orientation, here's Lake Louisville, here's 380 going 29 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:32,100 out towards McKinney 377 that goes up to Krugerville and Aubrey and Pilot Point, this is located 30 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:38,800 south of the facility, or south of the roadway, you can see the layout where the disposal 31 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,400 area is, the rest of this open area here was actually used as borough, so what we did was 32 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,840 we mined dirt, it was a trench fill site so we dug trenches, filled it up, compacted it, 33 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:56,140 put the dirt back over, had to mine additional soil to complete the cover on the facility 34 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:03,140 and it's basically been setting this way since 1985 with minimal maintenance other than mowing 35 00:03:03,140 --> 00:03:06,200 and fencing and things of that nature. 36 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:12,160 In 2018, we had the engineering firm of Park Hill Smith and Cooper go out and do an assessment 37 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,300 of the facility, identify some issues that did need to be addressed, again in the terms 38 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:21,140 of subsidence, erosion, things of that nature, they did come back to us with four options. 39 00:03:21,140 --> 00:03:25,960 First of all, there was the do nothing option, technically it is a closed landfill, very 40 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,320 minimal things that we have to do, but this really isn't viable because again of the condition 41 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,760 of the landfill. 42 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,560 We could go back in and for about a million dollars repair the side slopes, option three 43 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:42,040 is actually going in, repairing all the settling, regrade the facility, put a new cap on it 44 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,160 at about three and a half, three and three quarter million dollars. 45 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Option four, which was addressed, was potentially digging up the landfill, moving the waste 46 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,760 to an existing site, returning this to basically a clean site, but at the cost of 40 million 47 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:02,120 dollars that is slightly cost prohibitive, so again, part of what we need to address 48 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,720 is what is the future use of this property, is it going to remain fallow, is there something 49 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,000 beneficial that we can do with it, so that's what's going to drive the in use and what 50 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,800 we ultimately do with this piece of property. 51 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,880 State of Texas through its rules, what's called subchapter T actually permits the reuse of 52 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,160 facilities over closed landfill sites. 53 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,000 If you're going to build an enclosed structure, if you're going to basically penetrate the 54 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,080 cap on the landfill then you have to go through a permitting process. 55 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Ideally what the state wants you to do is to minimize any sort of penetrations into 56 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:43,040 the cap with borings, enclosed structures that may trap methane gas, create safety hazards, 57 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,640 any structure component that could potentially trap gas needs to be minimized or have some 58 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,920 sort of venting system, some sort of alarm system built in for the safety of those that 59 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,760 are using it. 60 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,160 And then again, whatever we do on site it has to protect and enhance the existing cap. 61 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,320 Also when you're selling this property you have to notify whoever is going to be buying 62 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,800 this that you are in compliance with subchapter T rules. 63 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,040 Again this is an enclosed landfill city property, I don't see us getting rid of this, but again 64 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,080 we do need to comply with the rule as we look towards redevelopment. 65 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:24,060 I do have Gary Pankin with our parks director with us today, we've been talking about potential 66 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:26,880 recreational uses out of the facility. 67 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:32,120 Once we spend a significant amount of money going back in, recapping this, regrading it, 68 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,560 it seems kind of a shame just to let it set again. 69 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:40,480 There's some beneficial reuse that could occur on this site, one with shortcomings, not shortcomings 70 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:48,040 but again needs that we find in the City of Denton is the need for biking areas and in 71 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,300 talking with our parks department it makes sense to possibly turn this into some sort 72 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:58,240 of trail type system where we can have some enclosed areas that are safe for people to 73 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,440 get out to bike on and then reuse this facility. 74 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,840 So again I talked previously about the town of Crossroads, again access into the site 75 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:12,960 is through the town of Crossroads and they have requested that the City of Denton pay 76 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,000 for the reconstruction of one of their roads that goes into that to the tune of a little 77 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,960 more than half a million dollars. 78 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:27,840 Again this is complete reconstruction, not just repair of any impact that we may affect 79 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,320 onto the street. 80 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:35,560 Again according to our legal group we really have no legal obligation to compensate them, 81 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,720 we have a site there, state requires that we have access into that facility. 82 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,600 So again that brings us to three different options, either we pay fully to reconstruct 83 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:51,960 Potter Sharp Road which is the access that we want to use, we try to come to some compensation 84 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,660 in terms of incremental impact or we recognize our right to use the road and just continue 85 00:06:56,660 --> 00:06:58,980 to use it and go from there. 86 00:06:58,980 --> 00:07:02,520 So as we move forward in our next steps we would recommend that we proceed with option 87 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,160 three at that full repair of about three and three quarters of a million dollars, develop 88 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:13,920 specifications, set the grades ideally for use in a future recreation use and also seek 89 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:20,160 some direction on how we want to proceed with the City of Crossroads in terms of site access. 90 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,520 I think in the long term this being as close to the City of Crossroads as it is and them 91 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,800 having no recreational facilities within their city proper there seems to be an opportunity 92 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,280 for us to potentially partner with them on this bike facility and some recreational uses 93 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:40,040 within the city that would more than compensate for the use of that road in that area. 94 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,960 So with that I want to open this up for any questions and for myself, Mr. Packen, and 95 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,240 then we'll take direction from there. 96 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,960 I just had a quick question and maybe this is one for Mr. Packen, have you thought about 97 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,880 using it as a tree farm? 98 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,440 That would be quite low impact and we need the... 99 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,840 Again we cannot penetrate the cap so anything to be planted that would count, yes. 100 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,720 We cannot plant, I mean we plant grasses to control erosion but we can't, we've got to 101 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,840 control trees and roots and things of that nature. 102 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,720 So how far down can you go before it penetrates the cap? 103 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Well the cap starts at the ground surface and it'll go anywhere from about 18 to 36 104 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,280 inches deep. 105 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Okay, thanks. 106 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,320 Excuse me, what is the cap made of? 107 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,320 Is it concrete? 108 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,040 No, it's clay and compacted soils. 109 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Okay. 110 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,920 Is there still decomposing matter under the cap? 111 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,480 That's a really good question. 112 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,760 In studies that have been done there's not been any methane detected and that's usually 113 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:46,080 indication of decomposition but again this being a closed landfill I'm not going to... 114 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,080 You never say never. 115 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,440 There's probably still some trash there that is in the decomposition stage but we're not 116 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,400 picking up any methane from that facility. 117 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,760 So is there a monitoring... 118 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,760 Is there monitoring happening? 119 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,080 No, there is not methane monitoring happening. 120 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,840 There is not a methane monitor at the site but as part of the assessment there was methane 121 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:06,840 monitoring completed. 122 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:07,840 I see. 123 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:08,840 Okay, thanks. 124 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:09,840 Okay. 125 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,000 The $600,000 for rebuilding a road, is that included in the 3.8 million? 126 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,880 No, it is not. 127 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,560 So you're asking the city for $600,000 plus 3.8 million? 128 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:22,560 Correct. 129 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,120 Is that amount budgeted? 130 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,520 We do have that amount set in reserve right now. 131 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,080 Okay. 132 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,960 And being as old as it is it had no liners underneath it to the extent that we do it 133 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:36,960 today? 134 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:37,960 Correct. 135 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,640 It's considered a pre-subtitled facility so again as you were doing the trench you did 136 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,720 lay down your clay and compacted it but again it's not built to the integrity of the landfills 137 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,080 today. 138 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,120 Which is why you looked at option four but it's... 139 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Correct. 140 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:52,120 Cost prohibitive. 141 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,840 Is anything other than a bike trail investigated as a use for that property? 142 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,800 I want to ask Mr. Packen to come in and talk about future recreation uses that have been 143 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,800 considered. 144 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:09,680 Gary Packen, Director of Parks and Recreation, I'm not as tall as Brian's. 145 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,360 The other option is just a regular hiking trail. 146 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,400 We've been working with our mountain bike group, focus group, during our mass plan process 147 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,920 and they like the location. 148 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,760 There's no trees on the large portion, that's 75 acres, so that's the downside of it. 149 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,400 We are looking at another location in town, a little closer as well. 150 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:35,640 So either a hike trail or a bike trail would probably be our two suggested locations. 151 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:41,960 From a biking standpoint, there's an adjacent 30 acres that's Army Corps property. 152 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,200 Just to see, nope, wrong way. 153 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,760 So this location right here is Army Corps property and then just on the other side of 154 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Mosley is Army Corps property as well. 155 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,760 If we went from a hiking trail, we could expand this into this area here. 156 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,760 This is a creek here. 157 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,560 But we could actually have additional trails through this heavily wooded area and then 158 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:09,640 also take people out to the lake for a hiking trail as well. 159 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,960 But we can't have bikes in that area based on how the Army Corps of Engineer qualifies 160 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:14,960 that space. 161 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,080 We don't have any vehicle and they classify a bike as a vehicle. 162 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,680 So if we went from a hiking standpoint, we could expand it by probably another 50 acres 163 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:26,560 of hiking trails for the community. 164 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:35,560 Okay, on the budget side of this, you said it was in reserves. 165 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:43,320 So the plan is to reimburse or just give Crossroads the $600,000 a year ticket, that portion's 166 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,760 yours? 167 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,120 That's part of the discussion that we need to have is Crossroads. 168 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,520 Again, we would probably end reimbursement the way that we would handle that. 169 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,520 Okay. 170 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,520 And the $3.8 million or $3.7 million, that would be run through the city's budgetary 171 00:11:58,520 --> 00:11:59,520 process? 172 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,520 Correct. 173 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:01,520 Correct. 174 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:02,520 As I said, we have that in reserves. 175 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,880 We would do a budget amendment as we go forward with the bidding and letting of this process. 176 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Okay, yeah. 177 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,480 I think my concern would be, I don't think the city of Crossroads has the infrastructure 178 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,440 that Denton does to run a large project like that. 179 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,200 And so we wouldn't just buy the road from them for 3.7. 180 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,040 We would actually do the reconstruction and it would be run through our engineering department. 181 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,520 Again, this is a city of Crossroads road. 182 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,040 The estimate that for the reconstruction was done by their city engineer, they would let 183 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,400 it just like they would build any other road. 184 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,400 Okay. 185 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,400 Okay. 186 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,400 That answers my question. 187 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,400 Thank you. 188 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,960 Is there a lifetime associated with a cap? 189 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,400 Is there a period at which after a certain amount of time it disintegrates or needs to 190 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:54,400 be replaced? 191 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,400 No. 192 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:03,560 As long as the drainage is set and, you know, you monitor that -- you monitor how the integrity 193 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:12,760 of the trash is managed there, then, you know, as long as it's, you know, has significant 194 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:18,160 vegetative cover, i.e., grasses and things to control erosion, then it can last a significant 195 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,160 amount of time. 196 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:26,000 The issue here is that the -- in that the cap -- in that you had a lot of decaying garbage 197 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,920 and with the heavy rains that we've had in the past eight or ten years, that has actually 198 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,720 impacted the integrity of that cap. 199 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:34,720 Okay. 200 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,320 Seeing as how there is decaying garbage, as you mentioned before, and they're looking 201 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:47,520 at making this a hiking and biking area, is there any thought about instituting some sort 202 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:54,640 of yearly or twice a year monitoring of the site to make sure that there aren't any toxic 203 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,280 gases coming off the thing? 204 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:04,280 No, going forward, we will be doing, you know, at least a biannual assessment of the facility. 205 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,140 Given that it's been since '85, since any garbage has been put in there, and currently 206 00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:14,520 the post-closure monitoring requirement for new landfills is 30 years, we would even be 207 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,960 outside of that, so there's really not an issue with any sort of gases that come off 208 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,960 the facility. 209 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:21,960 Okay. 210 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:22,960 All right. 211 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:23,960 Thank you. 212 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:24,960 Okay. 213 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:25,960 Any other questions? 214 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:32,080 On the road, have we ever done that before where we paid another city for upgrading a 215 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,080 road? 216 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,960 From what I understand, when the road, when the landfill was operational, we did go in 217 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:42,920 and rebuild part of another road, Mosley Road, which comes around the west side of the facility. 218 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:49,360 We did pay for part of the reconstruction of that road, but again, that was back in the 219 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,360 late '70s, early '80s when that happened. 220 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,360 Okay. 221 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,360 Is there an item that you need some direction on? 222 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,240 I need some direction on that, how we go about proceeding. 223 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Actually on the, I think we fixed the landfill the way we should fix it, at the 3.8 million. 224 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:08,560 How does the rest of the board feel? 225 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,400 It's not a boat, it's just a direction. 226 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,560 I don't see that we've got much choice on that. 227 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:15,560 You don't just patch it. 228 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,560 You fix it. 229 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,560 But this is not a done deal. 230 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,600 We don't know how that's going to proceed. 231 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,200 I mean, I see the dollar amount. 232 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,080 You're just asking for - No. 233 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:32,400 Option three, though, just the repairing of the landfill, not the road piece. 234 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,400 Is all I'm asking. 235 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,400 Yeah. 236 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:35,400 Do we - 237 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,080 Yeah, there are really four options. 238 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,760 Well, actually, there's only two options. 239 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,020 We're not going to not do anything, and we're not going to move the way, so either we just 240 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:46,920 repair the side slopes, or we go forward and do a full repair of the cap that's on us. 241 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:56,440 I'd need to repair it, rather than just patch it. 242 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,840 And then on the road. 243 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:06,160 I mean, staff would consider direction, and I think it would be staff's recommendation 244 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:12,140 that we partner with Crossroads, because they're going to see some benefit due to this recreational 245 00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,200 facility going in in this area, also. 246 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,200 So I would - 247 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Yeah, and we want to be a good neighbor. 248 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,200 We want to be a good neighbor. 249 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,200 All right. 250 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,200 I have a question. 251 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,200 Yes, sir. 252 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:27,680 As the idea of transferring ownership, or part ownership, of this to Crossroads ever 253 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:34,240 been discussed, since they're there, and we're here, and we're on the other side of the lake. 254 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,480 It's further away from Denton proper. 255 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,440 It has not yet, but again, in pursuant to subchapter T, we would have to bring it out 256 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:42,440 to a certain level. 257 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,840 We would have to do this work before we'd even consider - 258 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,760 You might want to think about some approach to that. 259 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,600 To me, it would make sense. 260 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,160 It's in their backyard. 261 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,160 Well, you also have to keep in mind that they may not want it. 262 00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,160 Yeah. 263 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,160 There's a liability associated with it. 264 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,800 So, I mean, it's the city that's in it, and so I don't see many communities wanting to 265 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:10,000 accept a former landfill, because I would assume if we deeded it to them, however way, 266 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,000 they would be responsible for future monitoring. 267 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,000 Correct. 268 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,000 Right. 269 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000 Any type of permitting, et cetera, et cetera. 270 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,480 That would take a heck of an agreement to accomplish, to rid ourselves of the obligations 271 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:20,480 there. 272 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,480 Yes, it would. 273 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,480 So, yeah. 274 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,480 All right. 275 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:24,480 Do you have what you need? 276 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,480 I have what I need. 277 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:26,480 Thank you. 278 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,480 Thank you very much. 279 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:28,480 All right. 280 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,640 The next item is our consent agenda. 281 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,480 Does any board member wish to pull an item? 282 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,480 Yes. 283 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,840 I have a question on the first one. 284 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:38,840 On A? 285 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,440 Do I need to tell you all the ones? 286 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:42,440 Yep. 287 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,440 You want to pull A? 288 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,440 And B? 289 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,440 Or excuse me, D? 290 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,440 Or then Delta? 291 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,440 E is in Echo. 292 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,440 Okay. 293 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,440 H? 294 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:50,440 Or then Harley-Davidson. 295 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:51,440 Okay. 296 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,440 Retired guy. 297 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,440 Says the retired guy. 298 00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:10,640 So then, do we have a motion to approve B, C, F, and G? 299 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,640 No approval. 300 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,360 Second. 301 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,240 All in favor say aye. 302 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,240 Aye. 303 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,240 Opposed? 304 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,240 Carries. 305 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,240 Okay. 306 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,240 Item A. 307 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,700 Item A is the amendment to the Garver engineers contract. 308 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:31,440 First amendment to the, yep, for Garver LLC. 309 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,440 All right. 310 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,040 I'm Frank Pugsley, Director of Water Utilities, and just a little background on that project. 311 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,360 Garver is the design engineer on the Lake Louisville water treatment plant solids handling 312 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:46,900 system and that is where we're going to install a belt filter press and some additional recycle 313 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:53,000 pumps to manage our water treatment residuals and also this project will let us recover 314 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,560 and recycle some of the wasted water that was otherwise going to the sewer. 315 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,840 So Garver is going to be performing our construction administration and construction observation 316 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,440 services. 317 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:10,000 Just a suggestion on that, have you talked about any kind of acceptance criteria for 318 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,120 this sludge dewatering system, meaning how many tons per hour of throughput you want 319 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:19,680 and what moisture you want removed from the sludge? 320 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,680 Yes, absolutely. 321 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,920 Those are all part of the design and we went through a pretty extensive design evaluation 322 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,720 of different technologies, so yes, we have a target moisture content and a target throughput 323 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,720 for the facility. 324 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,720 That's it. 325 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,720 All right. 326 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:40,840 So just to clarify, this is for the administration of the contract, we okay to contract with 327 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,520 the actual construction company? 328 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,520 Yes, ma'am. 329 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:44,520 Already? 330 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Yes. 331 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:46,520 Yeah. 332 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,520 Okay. 333 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,560 Do we have a motion to approve? 334 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,480 I move we approve. 335 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,480 Any second? 336 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,480 Second. 337 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:54,480 All in favor say aye. 338 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,480 Aye. 339 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:02,520 Item A. D. Consider recommending adoption of an ordinance for the City of Denton, a Texas 340 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:13,480 Home Rule Municipal Corporation with TMPA. 341 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:14,480 Good morning, PB. 342 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,600 My name is Smith Day, Denton Municipal Electric. 343 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,080 I'm the regulatory and risk division manager. 344 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,400 I do have, depending on how in-depth you want to go, I do have a presentation. 345 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,000 We can do some things. 346 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,240 I just have a simple question. 347 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,240 Yes, sir. 348 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,920 Is the $2.8 million budgeted in the density? 349 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,920 In the city? 350 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:36,920 Yes, sir. 351 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:43,680 It's part of the proposed DME proposed city budget for the general budget. 352 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,480 I have a question before we, I'm sorry. 353 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:46,480 Nope. 354 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,440 Just, should some of this be discussed in executive session if he's going to put a presentation 355 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,440 on? 356 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,760 I, no, it's on the agenda, so it's. 357 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,360 No, this is not confidential. 358 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:57,360 Yeah. 359 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:58,360 So there's no detail. 360 00:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,360 Okay. 361 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,680 Okay. 362 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,600 And I was going to ask you, since you are the board member for TMPA representing us, 363 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,600 this is all. 364 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:08,600 Yes. 365 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,600 Within. 366 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,320 This has already been approved through the TMPA and now proposing it through the city. 367 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,320 All right. 368 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:15,320 Process. 369 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,320 Yes, sir. 370 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,000 Each city, because the budget increase was 20% or greater. 371 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Right. 372 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,120 That triggers a provision in the joint operating agreement where each city must agree to that 373 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,120 increase. 374 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,120 Okay. 375 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,320 Do we have a motion to approve this item? 376 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:30,320 I move we approve. 377 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,320 And the second? 378 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Second. 379 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,320 All in favor say aye. 380 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,320 Aye. 381 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,320 Carries. 382 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,320 E. 383 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:45,920 Okay, it's me again, Smith-A, DME. 384 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,800 So this is E, this is the amendment to the joint operating agreement, it was more of 385 00:21:51,800 --> 00:22:01,800 a housekeeping item to clean up a couple of problems in the original joint operating agreement. 386 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:10,200 It made clear unambiguously that all cities that participated in the generation at any 387 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:16,240 time were going to participate in the decommissioning of the generator. 388 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,400 One of the cities had in the last couple of years gotten out of the power sales agreement 389 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,400 so there was an ambiguity there, hey, should this participant stay for the decommissioning 390 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,400 or not? 391 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,400 So this clears that up. 392 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:35,040 It also clears up an issue that the Texas security general had with the reclamation 393 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,080 bonds. 394 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:42,800 So again, that 20% increase provision with the reclamation bonds, there was a provision 395 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:50,400 that if say there was a city, one of the four cities had an issue with this credit rating 396 00:22:50,400 --> 00:23:00,080 going down and that triggered a provision to add more to the bond funds, the bond reserves, 397 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,880 that hey, if this 20% is sitting there, that's kind of a back door way of avoiding that. 398 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,800 Something that all the cities through TMPA already agreed to and the attorney general 399 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,440 had a dim view of that so that was to correct that. 400 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:22,160 The only other thing was left is that this makes it clear that the mine property can 401 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:28,880 be sold piecemeal in different hunks and not all is one and it can be done with the proper 402 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:29,880 bonding. 403 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,880 >> Okay. 404 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,680 >> The only question I had is and after reading the text of amendment 3, it's my understanding 405 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,680 that authorizing the mayor to represent Denton excludes giving him the authority to make 406 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,800 financial commitments for the city of Denton. 407 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,800 Is that true? 408 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,120 In other words, I don't think the mayor -- I don't think you're giving the mayor exclusive 409 00:23:55,120 --> 00:24:00,960 authority to make financial obligations for the whole city of Denton, are you? 410 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960 >> I don't believe that's true. 411 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:09,400 >> We'll have our attorney. 412 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,880 >> Larry Callister of city attorney's office. 413 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,920 No, the mayor does not have unilateral authority under that agreement to encumber any funds 414 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:16,920 to the city. 415 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,920 That comes back to council. 416 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,920 That's a recommendation to the PV. 417 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,160 >> I just wanted to clarify that. 418 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,560 >> All these rules had to be changed over the past few years with the 2019 plan which 419 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:35,040 is now turned into the 20 who knows when plan. 420 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,480 >> Do we have a motion to approve this item? 421 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,480 >> I move we approve. 422 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,480 >> And a second? 423 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,480 >> Second. 424 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,600 >> All in favor say aye. 425 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,600 >> Aye. 426 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,600 >> Each carries. 427 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,600 And H. 428 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,600 >> Thank you. 429 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,600 >> Thank you. 430 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,600 Item H. 431 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,600 >> H concerns the -- 432 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:57,800 >> Oh, it's change order between Denton and DDM construction corporation for the Bonnie 433 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Bray round about. 434 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,020 >> Right. 435 00:25:04,020 --> 00:25:08,920 >> Good morning, board members. 436 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:09,920 I'm Jim Jenks. 437 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,440 I'm senior engineer with capital improvements department. 438 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:22,960 This is the first change order on this construction contract and it was basically the original 439 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,800 contract was awarded at the May 21st city council meeting at which time staff did inform 440 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:35,280 council there will be a change order coming up that will pertain to the addition of the 441 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,800 water line relocation work to this project. 442 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:46,320 That is the majority of this change order amount both in the dollar amount and the added 443 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,320 days. 444 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:59,760 I can tell you at this point almost all of that water line is in now and we have Bonnie 445 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,560 Bray street open to traffic one direction north and south. 446 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,920 We managed to do that before the UNT classes started up which was our objective from the 447 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760 start and we did it. 448 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,420 But at any rate, that's the crux of it. 449 00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:21,000 There are some other items of work within the change order that it entails particularly 450 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,080 related to the expediting of work to meet that schedule. 451 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,360 And I've broken it out in great detail I realize in the attachments. 452 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:35,080 I don't mean to be overwhelming with that but we wanted to show each individual item 453 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,280 of work within each of the major items. 454 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,360 With that I'll stand for any questions. 455 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:46,400 >> Part of this extra is to relocate a 20 inch or 16 inch and a 12 inch water line that 456 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:52,000 was a surprise to somebody that they didn't know needed to be relocated, right? 457 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,360 >> Well, no, sir. 458 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,960 It was part of the roundabout project throughout. 459 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:07,180 It was earlier this year the intent was to add that work as a change order to another 460 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:10,520 project where we already had a contractor on site. 461 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:17,040 However, we realized that geographically that job site is too far away from that contractor's 462 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,960 site and so we had to change plans. 463 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,560 We realized we couldn't add it to that contract so we had to add it to this one. 464 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,560 But that scope of work was part of this roundabout project. 465 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,980 >> One other question. 466 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:38,240 What process do you have to identify and revise your underground utility drawings to show 467 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:44,200 field information you discovered about things that are there that you didn't know were there? 468 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,920 >> That's a good question. 469 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:54,760 We have on every project we require when a contractor installs new lines or even discovers 470 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:00,440 existing facilities that are not where we thought they were, they have to add them to 471 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,160 what we call the record drawings. 472 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,800 The contractor keeps a record of those during the construction phase. 473 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,200 Our inspector keeps track of them as well. 474 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,520 And we don't accept the project is complete until the contractor has provided our consulting 475 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:21,100 engineer those record drawings for the engineer to draw up and put into the CAD plans and 476 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,680 seal them and deliver to us as part of the final package. 477 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,080 And then going forward we keep those records digitally so we have access to them in the 478 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,080 future. 479 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,080 >> Good. 480 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,080 >> Okay. 481 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Any other questions? 482 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,080 Okay. 483 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,680 Do we have a motion to approve this item? 484 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,160 >> I move we approve. 485 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,160 >> And a second? 486 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,160 >> Second. 487 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,160 >> All right. 488 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,160 All in favor say aye. 489 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,160 >> Aye. 490 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,160 >> Okay. 491 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,680 Motion carries. 492 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:52,320 Next item is approval of minutes of the August 26, 2019 board meeting. 493 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,000 Were there any changes or suggestions? 494 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,640 Then they stand approved as presented. 495 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:06,520 And the next item is consider recommending adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, 496 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,800 Texas authorizing the expenditure of funds for the payment of wholesale transmission 497 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:11,800 charges. 498 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,160 I won't read the whole thing. 499 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,640 >> Tony Puente, chief financial officer, interim GM for DME. 500 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,400 This is really just a kind of administrative approval process in the past. 501 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,160 These charges, which are regulatory in nature, were simply processed by staff, but due to 502 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:35,480 some staff changes back in 2017, we brought these forward to the PAB and also to the council. 503 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,760 These are wholesale transmission charges that are allocated to the City of Denton for the 504 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,240 entire ERCOT system, very similar to the types of charges that we get paid for transmission 505 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,320 assets that the city owns and also pays to construct or repair. 506 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,040 So with that, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. 507 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,040 >> Questions? 508 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,040 >> Yeah, I have a question. 509 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,600 And I'm asking out of ignorance here because I simply don't know the answer to this. 510 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:10,200 Is there a standard formula from FERC or some other organization that defines what method 511 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:17,920 these transmission providers use to select the costs that are included and then distributed? 512 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,380 Is there a standard methodology for calculating these costs by each of these transmission 513 00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:25,380 providers? 514 00:30:25,380 --> 00:30:29,800 >> There is, and that is overseen by the PUCT, and so periodically these utilities will have 515 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:37,100 to go to the PUC or really on an interim basis and file rate cases that justify the assets 516 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:40,760 that are included and also the expenditures that have been made for those so they can 517 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,060 be allocated out. 518 00:30:44,060 --> 00:30:48,080 >> So there are six different transmission providers here. 519 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,960 So is the method that all six use the same to include cost? 520 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,960 >> Yes. 521 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:53,960 >> Okay. 522 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,240 >> All right. 523 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,240 Any other questions? 524 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,000 We have a motion to approve. 525 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,760 >> I move we approve. 526 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,800 >> Is there a second? 527 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,800 Ed's got the second. 528 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,800 All in favor say aye. 529 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:06,800 >> Aye. 530 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,800 >> Aye. 531 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,480 >> All right. 532 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,120 Next item is consider recommending the adoption of an ordinance to the City of Denton between 533 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:23,000 DB Denton II LLC. 534 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:40,680 >> Sorry, had to correct the spelling error. 535 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,680 >> It's all right. 536 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,080 >> Good morning, board members. 537 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,080 My name is Kenny Banks. 538 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800 I'm the general manager of utilities. 539 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,480 This project has been quite a while coming. 540 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,120 It is associated with the Razor Ranch development. 541 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,120 And it involves a sewer line that runs from scripture road down to I-35. 542 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,960 So portions of Razor Ranch are currently served by an existing ten inch sewer line that runs 543 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,280 from scripture to I-35. 544 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,760 The water and sewer analyses that were used to determine what kind of infrastructure we 545 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:19,040 needed at full build out for Razor Ranch were completed by Kimley horn in 2007. 546 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,920 And they were summarized in the general development plan for Razor Ranch. 547 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,360 These analyses indicated that that scripture to I-35 line would need to be upsized because 548 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,400 the amount of flow that would be possible going through that line would be exceeded 549 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,920 at some point in the development. 550 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:42,080 And it would require an upsize from the ten inch to 12 and possibly 15 inch line. 551 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,440 The existing sewer line is currently at capacity. 552 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,080 And we've actually routed a portion of the flow to the temporarily to the north by the 553 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,360 larger line at university. 554 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,400 And we are in need of basically upsizing this line. 555 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,480 So the developer is paying for the complete cost associated with this line. 556 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,840 And that is what is described in the agreement that is included in your backup. 557 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,200 Denton will manage the project and will install a portion of the line near I-35 using city 558 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:19,600 denton construction crews that will be included in the cost that the developer will cover. 559 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,360 And we will have to use a boring contractor for a portion of it due to some of the underground 560 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,440 infrastructure that is in that area. 561 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,000 We've done some additional analyses through our engineering department and determined 562 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,240 that a 12 inch line is sufficient for the northern section. 563 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,960 And we will do a 15 to 16 inch line on the southern section. 564 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,360 A good portion of this project will be done through pipe bursting technology where we're 565 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:49,840 actually going through the existing pipe and breaking that pipe apart and pulling a new 566 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,200 piece of pipe in behind it. 567 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,840 And so we're hoping that by doing that we'll be able to move relatively quickly, also be 568 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:03,240 minimally invasive in the area because we don't have to unearth the entirety of the 569 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,760 pipe, just have to unearth it at a few sections. 570 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,880 So again the developer's funds are going to be used solely for the design permitting 571 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,880 construction management and total installation of the project. 572 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:21,760 The developer has provided those funds to the city in the current amount of $9.98, $7.98 573 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:28,400 and we have those in hand and we are hoping to $7.78, I apologize. 574 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,280 We're hoping to get this project started as quickly as possible and we are recommending 575 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,200 approval of the ordinance that will be taken to council for this project. 576 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,600 And I'd be happy to answer any questions. 577 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,160 >> Do we have questions? 578 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,100 >> I have a question. 579 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:48,520 This may not have any relevance but I just am curious. 580 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,800 This study was completed in 2007? 581 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,800 >> Correct. 582 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,040 >> And when that was-- that study said that somewhere down the line this is going to have 583 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,040 to be done? 584 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,040 >> Correct. 585 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:05,880 >> My question is-- and this is not pointing fingers or anything but just asking why wasn't 586 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,120 this initially done then? 587 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,760 >> It had to do with the overall development phase of Razor Ranch so it would have been 588 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,760 putting the infrastructure in well ahead of when it was actually needed. 589 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,600 What we're hoping to do is basically get to the point and we are a little bit past where 590 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:28,440 I'd like to be but my recommendation on something like this would be to wait until we get fairly 591 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:35,880 close to the overall capacity of the line before we replace it with a new line. 592 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,720 That way you get the maximum life out of your infrastructure once that's done. 593 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:44,600 In other words, had we done this in 2007, we'd have 12 years worth of infrastructure 594 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,920 in the ground that we really didn't need. 595 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:53,520 So our hope is to get it done at a time where it's most appropriate and that will give us 596 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,040 the maximum overall lifespan of that infrastructure. 597 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:02,080 >> Yeah, I was just curious because I wondered what the difference in cost would be and how 598 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,320 that would balance out with the capacity needs. 599 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,520 >> Yes, it definitely is something that if you get in there earlier, it's-- construction 600 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,800 cost as a general rule have a tendency to continue to rise and now in particular is 601 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,040 a time where we're seeing a fairly large rise in construction on a relative basis. 602 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,880 But again, you have to weigh that against the overall replacement of the infrastructure 603 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:31,560 and the timing of when the developer would like to put the funds in place and so it's-- 604 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:37,880 we're at a point now where we have enough time to complete this project. 605 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:43,440 We've done a few things to ensure that we have routed the sewage appropriately so that 606 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,000 we can complete this project. 607 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,840 But I understand what you're saying. 608 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,760 Construction cost, it's always a balance between when you want to do it, when it makes sense 609 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:58,080 financially, when it makes sense capacity-wise and then also how can you get the maximum 610 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,080 out of your lifespan. 611 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,080 >> Thank you. 612 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,080 >> Mm-hmm. 613 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,240 >> What is the useful life of the sewage line typically? 614 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,760 So if we would have done it earlier, were we halfway into the life and we weren't even 615 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:09,760 at capacity? 616 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,760 >> Yeah, that's an interesting question. 617 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,760 It depends on a lot of factors. 618 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,720 We camera all of our infrastructure assets on the sewer side in the city and we have 619 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:24,260 an asset management program that we run with that information. 620 00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:31,080 And so the short answer and it's the answer you're likely going to hear out of the consultants 621 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:36,760 in the profession, it depends, we-- what we're going to do is we'll basically be cameraing 622 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,960 this line just like we will with any other and our goal is just simply to get the maximum 623 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,960 lifespan. 624 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,600 If we've got shifting soils that have a tendency to be expansive and contractive, you've 625 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,560 got a tendency to get a little bit less lifespan, it would not be unusual at all for something 626 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,200 like this to be able to last 30 plus years. 627 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,200 >> Okay. 628 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,200 Thank you. 629 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,360 Any other questions? 630 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,480 Do we have a motion to approve? 631 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,400 >> I'll second. 632 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,160 >> All in favor say aye. 633 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,160 >> Aye. 634 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,160 >> Aye. 635 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,160 >> Motion carries. 636 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,160 >> Thank you. 637 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,160 >> ACM update. 638 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,160 >> Yes. 639 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,160 Good morning, members of the board. 640 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:20,400 The ACM update is just a city manager update and we provide this on a-- as you all meet 641 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,080 just to provide you just with memorandums based on questions that have been brought 642 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,520 up by board members so that we can follow up with you as opposed to full-fledged presentation 643 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,360 to keep the meetings going hopefully smoothly and quickly. 644 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:37,520 We try to provide these to you in a memorandum or just through some kind of document for 645 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,960 your review. 646 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,600 Based on the most recent request, we had had a request about audit measures on one of our 647 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,560 billing and printing contracts included in your packet is a memorandum from Tiffany Thompson, 648 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,760 Director of Customer Service. 649 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:59,640 She's present here if any board members have specific questions about the memo. 650 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,120 Outside of that, if you look ahead on your new business matrix, there are a few items 651 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,280 that are still pending that we'll be bringing back to the board whether through a presentation 652 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,520 or even through a memorandum update on the energy center. 653 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,320 We try to do those on a quarterly basis. 654 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,840 That way you all can see how the quarter performed on a look back basis and then we also got 655 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,960 an item there for a multifamily recycling. 656 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,680 So more than likely we'll be bringing it to the PUB and also to the committee on the environment. 657 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,680 So if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer or Ms. Thompson's here as well. 658 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,760 Thank you for the reply. 659 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,320 Just a comment. 660 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,160 Maybe a suggestion to go forward with the council discussion and where the work sessions 661 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,160 is orientations. 662 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,000 Again, I know we discussed this last time, because we could I think we could all educate 663 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,720 ourselves better on how the PUC determines transmission reimbursements, how ERCOT determines 664 00:39:54,720 --> 00:40:00,280 our production reimbursements, and just an overview, you know, we're not trying to get 665 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:06,260 into the electrical business, obviously, but we can certainly do that. 666 00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:11,480 I also forgot to welcome our two newest board members, Charlie Parker and Barbara Russell. 667 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,360 Why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourselves. 668 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:17,360 You go first, Charlie. 669 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,360 Okay. 670 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:19,360 My name is Charlie Parker. 671 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,960 We are not related. 672 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:21,960 We are not related. 673 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,960 That's correct. 674 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,720 My wife and I moved to Denton about 21 years ago and raised our kids here and have enjoyed 675 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:36,280 our time in Denton by way of background, I guess my education is as a financial analyst, 676 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,560 and my work life has pretty much been a small business person. 677 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:49,080 Right now I have several properties here in Denton and some in New Mexico that I own and 678 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,200 manage and that's pretty much what we do. 679 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,840 Welcome back, Barbara. 680 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,040 Well we've been in Denton 50 plus years. 681 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:09,720 I'm a realtor and a small business owner and interested in being of service. 682 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,400 Concluding items, are there any items that a board member would like to have on the agenda 683 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,400 in the future? 684 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,400 Okay. 685 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,560 Hearing none, do we have a motion to adjourn? 686 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,040 So moved. 687 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,400 All right. 688 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,400 That was Billy. 689 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,040 It always will be. 690 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,540 - We're adjourned.