All right then. All right, after determining that the forum is present, I hereby call this meeting of the City of Denton Zoning Board of Adjustment into session.
The Zoning Board of Adjustment of the City of Denton will convene in its regular meeting at 5...
5.54 p.m. on the 18th of November, 2024. Item number one on our agenda is the U.S. and Texas Collegial Agents.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I pledge allegiance to the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state under God, one state indivisible.
All right. My name is Jennifer Lane. I'm the Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustment of the City of Denton.
Prior to commencing our hearing, I would like to review our meeting format for the benefit of those in attendance.
The Board consists of seven regular members and three alternates.
The members of the Zoning Board of Adjustment are residents of the City of Denton, we serve voluntarily, and have been appointed to our positions by the City Council.
It takes six votes to authorize appearance for the city's zoning or sign ordinances.
If there are any members of the public who wish to speak on an item, please fill out a blue card and hand it to Carl.
We will now commence with our regularly scheduled agenda.
Item 2A is ZBA 24-012, and then it's to elect a Vice Chair for the Zoning Board of Adjustment.
Do I have any nominations? I'd like to hear a nomination. Is there any? Yes.
I'd like to nominate Connor. He's run our last couple of meetings.
Is there a second? Second.
All in favor? Aye.
Any opposed? Any abstentions?
Connor, you made it. I made it.
It would have been funny if you weren't here.
This vote is my guess.
Oh, he's been here for the last couple of meetings, but not tonight.
But here you are. Thank you for covering in the summer, especially, because that's when I'm not here.
Yeah, of course. Academic calendar being what it is.
Thank you very much, guys.
All right. Thank you very much.
I'm assuming that those who need to know who the motion was made by know, and then the second one.
The results of the vote were just announced, and now Item 2B is ZBA 24-010 to consider the approval of the July 22, 2024 minutes.
Each member of the board has been provided with a copy of these minutes.
Are there any corrections, additions, or additions to these minutes?
Any?
And we did have one correction from one of the panelists in the packet.
It's highlighted for you all just to correct the name of who was absent at the meeting.
I believe it inked the right name there.
Oh, OK.
And then, whatever it was passed, it's to do with signs.
And now, entertain a motion to pass the minutes.
I would like to approve the minutes.
Motion to approve.
Second.
Any discussion?
All in favor?
Aye.
Any opposed?
Any abstentions?
Any opposed?
All right, then.
So the results are six in favor and one abstention.
That's not listed here, but I'm assuming we can.
Yes.
Then Item 2C is ZBA 24-013 to consider approval of the 2025 Zoning Board of Adjusted Meeting calendar.
And Mia, can you pull that up on the screen for us?
If anyone has any questions, we generally follow the same format as this year.
So, Fourth Monday of each month, with some exceptions due to holidays, I believe in May, November, and December.
So, if you make any changes on this report, any objection to any of those dates?
What's the one in?
February?
Oh, I should be good.
I should be good in February.
Let me double check real quick.
And then June, it's moved to the third.
No, it is the fourth.
Yeah, there's five Mondays in June.
Yeah, it can be confusing when it's not the last one.
Yeah.
Same thing in?
I believe September is also five Mondays.
Oh, May is the one that's moved because of Memorial Day.
Yes.
Yeah, then we adjusted for Thanksgiving and personal speaks as well.
What about September?
Same thing with September because of Labor Day.
And it's March.
March, we have the 24th.
I might not be here before February.
Actually, I do have a question about the September one.
Why is it the third?
Oh, it's the fourth.
It's just really long.
No, it's Labor Day.
It's moved to the third.
Yeah, got it.
Okay.
I definitely won't be able to attend on February one.
We have three alternates.
And Vice Chair.
Okay, so is there a motion to approve the calendar?
I make the motion to approve the 2025 calendar.
Second.
All right.
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Any opposed?
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So for a lot of the provisions of our development code there's very clear factual basis for it. So for example, like our access requirements it needs to be a certain amount of feet wide to accommodate a fire truck that needs a certain amount of feet to maneuver.
Is there some sort of comparable factual basis for our parking requirements for gas stations? Is there some scientific study that we can point to or anything like that?
I would say I wouldn't go so far as to say scientific study or parking ratios are mostly based on like engineering best practice like manuals published by the International Transportation Engineers Association ITE manual publishes like average parking ratios.
So just in general traffic studies and then those accumulating into like the American Planning Association and ITE recommendations that we generally try to follow.
And so it would be like the same parking minimum for like Midway Mart which is downtown in a dense urban area versus this which is right next to the highway.
Any further questions for the city from the board?
Perhaps the applicant would like to present any evidence or arguments to support the request. If so, please come forward.
Good evening. My name is Ben Williams, real estate project manager from QuickTrip.
So as Mia stated, we are here seeking invariants to allow for 14 additional parking spaces at this location.
This code is driven by use so I would like to remind the board here that our use is not the average.
So we're already at a busy location, a busy corner while our business typically does two to three times a typical C store.
While this has been maxed out for a while now, this has been a great location but this is one location that is struggling with just maneuverability through the parking lot.
So we have our 18 wheelers, trailers like landscaping trailers and things like that, parking along our curb lines, parking in the fuel drop areas, blocking our dumpsters.
And then we've got outside the fuel deliveries, we have our normal vendor deliveries that happen throughout the week at any time of the day.
So with all of those facts in place, it is hard for us to get our customers in and out in a safe manner as well as our employees.
So our typical stores can be anywhere from three to five employees, this one is usually four to eight typically, especially during shift changes.
So of those total parking, we're taking up a good percentage of that already just for our employees to be at work.
My team are here to answer any questions that anyone has. Does anybody have any questions?
I do. Have you had any, what would you say in terms of have there been accidents or brush ups?
Nothing reported that I know about. I've actually worked at that store as a project manager for a different project that we did years ago.
And it was close calls that we see a lot of the time, especially with fitting an 18-wheeler in for our projects with a trailer of supplies.
It's just bumper to bumper most times of the day at the store.
How many cars would you say you have to get towed a month because they're parked in the improper spot?
That I'm not sure. We don't like to tow our customers' cars. It takes a lot of approval to get there, so it's something we shy away from.
So if a car takes up a spot, they're likely to be there for a good week or two before it actually gets solved on their own.
So it's nearly impossible for us to get our division manager to approve us to actually tow off a customer's car.
Actually, and I just have a follow-up to that, would you think more likely, especially landscapers or people that are coming, getting gas, going in using the restrooms, buying food, whatever.
I mean, that's kind of a turnover of cars coming in and out or vehicles coming in and out.
So even if they're parked in the wrong zone, you wouldn't, more than likely, you wouldn't want to try and involve towing them or ticketing them or anything like that.
In special circumstances. So if they're blocking where we can't have deliveries of our fuel, that would be number one that they would approve.
If they're blocking somewhere where we can't get a vendor delivery, or if they're just blocking the place for your customers and if they have a tractor trailer blocking floor spaces, then we would pursue trying to get rid of that.
Okay. If someone parks there for a week, I'm assuming that's rare, but also, what would be the reason for that breakdown of the car or that they don't want to park there in other words?
Right, right. We don't have anybody that's trying to just kind of store the car, not make a trouble.
Yeah, usually just something broke down and then, you know, I don't know, it's baffled me for years, but a lot of cars just get left for two, three weeks and they don't ask questions until one day it's gone.
Would you say that the lack of parking, like, has that reduced any traffic or do you think having new parking, would that increase the amount of traffic you get or would that just satisfy the demand you have?
I mean, I think increasing our parking would definitely help in that aspect, but I mean at this point we're parking in areas that we just shouldn't be parking in, along the curb lines.
The one most common thing I see is, they're parking on that far curb line by the front of Tribal 35 and we're walking across that gas canopy and trying to just dodge cars.
I mean, I've been in that situation and I wouldn't want our customers to do that.
So there is a safety concern then?
Absolutely.
Any other questions for the applicant?
None of the applicant, would anybody else like to speak? None of the applicant in the city have presented their testimony, evidence, and argument.
Is there anyone who wishes to speak regarding this variance?
If so, please come forward and state your name and mailing address. You have four minutes to address the board.
After hearing all the testimony, evidence, and arguments, questions, and answers, as well as hearing from all those desiring to speak, not desiring to speak, in support and in opposition to the variance, I will entertain further questions from the board for any of the parties or the speakers, city or applicant.
Any further questions?
Chair, as a reminder, once the hearing is closed, our ability to ask questions of the applicant or for the sake of Nia as the city's presenter, once the hearing is closed, we'll be deliberating and it will be myself for legal questions and Haley for procedural city questions.
Then I do have one question. So this is the criteria that the city staff considered and so many of the things that come before ZBA, you have to meet each and every one of these. Is that the case?
Yes.
Do we, I mean, I guess, do we know any of the variances sort of in a similar situation that's along, like I-35, if the corridor through the city of Denton or any other major highway?
No. Short answer is no. We haven't received any other variances of this nature within that corridor.
May I make a remark?
Yes.
So hardship is a nebulous and pretty subjective term. Staff has told you that they don't necessarily see it, but they also don't, you know, not see it.
So I think that that's why this is before you. And so before the hearing is closed, if you have any, like, last questions about what would help you decide that, I would encourage you.
I do have one question. That section of, that exit area of 35 is really, truly horrible. Very, very crowded at all times. And I'm wondering what staff and what the applicant's opinion of the impact on how it's already so dense and delayed and so on and so forth, what the impact of having additional parking there would be, probably.
Or neutral.
Maybe neutral. I say that because this is, this is a result of an existing traffic, or on-site traffic increase or high volume, as opposed to them trying to, doing this to try to gather more people to their site, if that makes sense.
So, and it's on the southwest side, so the worst of it is on the northeast side, in terms of exiting.
Am I able to go? Yeah. Yeah, we haven't closed the hearing yet. Nope. Yeah, you can come up. That's, that's why.
Appreciate it. Good evening. Thank you. John Pimentel, 1308 Cheyenne Drive, Aubrey, Texas. I'm a real estate manager with QuickTrip. I've always worked in the Den area. I started in 2005 at the store down on 388, 288, so I'm very familiar with all our, all our sites here in Den.
Unfortunately, all seem to be under-parked. I want to comment on, I think somebody had a question about how we feel about the traffic and everything, how it would change.
So this store, historically, ever since we've opened, has had some issues, and since then, so many businesses have opened up from that tire store to the caverns over there, and so it's constantly packed. We actually have, I think the city anticipated this years ago. We actually have, I think, $50,000 in escrow with the city to eventually build a signal on 380, so it's easier for motorists to take a left out.
It's pretty difficult now. I'm sorry? From which direction? On 380, 388. Going north or going south? To head west. Ah, okay. Coming up? Yes, ma'am. Going north and turning? If you're exiting our site, so if you're exiting our site, you need to go towards Decatur. Okay, I see, yes, yes. It's almost impossible, but I think we still have money in with the city of Den.
And unfortunately, the tech side didn't include that at the time because of all the traffic in the area, and it's probably sending to the signal currently at 35.
Yes, ma'am. So, other, he said, so there's currently people sort of parking along, on the dirt side of the frontage road on I-35 to cross, like parking in the grass over there?
Do you have some photos? I think we have some photos of the city. If they're already parking in spaces, might as well, was that the only one?
The project narrative also included some photos. I don't know if you all have access to them, but I think we took a handful of photos and some shots.
Like, this area will be, like, where else are they parking where they're not supposed to, besides in front of the garbage on the fire line? Oh, yeah.
So, the employee parking is basically these spots and these spots. Our air pad is right over here, so usually that's taken up by at least one person.
We've got two ADA spots here. All of this, what looks like lanes, is all in front of our dumpsters, and then that's a field drop. So, we have trailers parking along the back curb line blocking the field drops.
This one most commonly would typically be lined up with trailers or just normal, regular cars where they're walking through trying to get to the store from there.
This is probably a higher land state area, as well as land state cruising trails, than your average quick trip.
Anymore? Did you have a question?
I have a question. You haven't really brought up a safety issue, but it seems to me that the addition of these parking spots, I know from my experience in BNN,
you have a lot of younger kids running around and stuff, and actually having increased parking would probably reduce the interaction of customers with traffic.
I haven't heard you bring that up, but was that anywhere in your survey that you'd done?
I don't recall if it, but you're absolutely correct. It's just the, and I don't know if any of you have been to this store, but it's just, I don't know if you have flat-out REX that report,
but there's a lot of conflicts just with all the vehicles in the area just going everywhere.
We've improved our building design since this store that you've seen if you go to the one in Sanger, just six or so miles to the north.
Our building is, now we have multiple entrances and parking on the sides, so it reduces that conflict, unfortunately.
But actually, I believe this was the last store that we built this way before we were able to get our new design, which makes it a lot more easier to maneuver parking along.
Any more questions for either of you? Is there any more time for me? All right.
Thank you.
After hearing all the testimony, evidence, and arguments, and questions and answers, as well as hearing from all those desiring to speak, I said in sorrow, "Hearing none, I now close the public hearing."
The board will now deliberate and decide on the variance request. Upon the completion of the board's deliberation, the board shall render an unbiased decision based on the record and supported by reasons and findings of fact.
In considering the variance, this board shall consider the facts and information in the agenda backup, including staff's written analysis of the variance,
the applicant's narrative and testimony presented in the public hearing, and the board's consideration and evaluation of the requirements of the applicable standards from the Denton Development Code.
The board may grant the variance as presented or with conditions. The board shall not grant a variance to any applicant solely for personal convenience, financial hardship, or other reasons unrelated to the property.
If the board grants a variance, the variance shall be granted only to the extent that it is reasonably necessary to remedy the hardship.
The board may impose conditions relating to the requested variance. If the board grants a variance, the decision shall state that all conditions for a variance were met.
Specify the degree to which the regulations are being varied and be signed by chairperson.
Deny a variance. If the variance is denied, the decision shall state the conditions for the variance which were not met. All decisions of the board granting or refusing a variance shall be reduced to writing and signed by the chairperson.
In your deliberation, consider the basis for the request and staff analysis of the criteria for approval of a variance.
First of all, Robert's Rules of Order say that if there is a motion to deny an item and it results in a tied vote, then the vote is of no effect. If that happens, we will need to take a second vote with the motion stated in the affirmative.
If the motion to approve fails, then the request is denied.
Because there are multiple criteria for approval of a variance and the applicant must meet each criterion, ZBA needs to make a finding of fact for each criterion.
Because of this, I am asking for a motion generally as follows.
If you wish to approve the variance, you will say, I move that the variance be approved as presented by staff because the applicant has met variance approval criteria listed in section 2.8.1(d)(1). If you wish to deny the variance, you should say, I move that the variance be denied as presented by staff because the applicant has not met variance approval criteria listed in section 2.8.1(d)(1).
That is the code reference.
Is there a motion?
Yes.
I make a motion that we approve the variance in accordance with, I'm sorry, I don't have the numbers in front of me.
The criteria that are presented on the board.
With staff's conditions?
With what, I'm sorry, what ma'am?
With staff's conditions.
As presented by the staff.
Thank you.
Second.
Discussion.
Yes.
I mean, I think this being by I-35 and then sandwiched in between another max-out commercial development and then like industrial, it's like there's special circumstances there and like the amount of over demand for parking I think can't be denied.
And then like, again, where it's location, there's not going to be the harm and they're willing to pay extra and deal with the maintenance of permeable concrete to mitigate runoff.
And the plantings?
Yeah.
And along that, the safety was not brought up, but I think we've all been to these large stations on the weekend and stuff when you have four or five children running around in the more designated parking spaces that you have.
So that people can get their children out safely and move them around in an orderly manner.
To me, that's a real big deal because there's a lot of cars that drive fast through these parking lots.
There's a lot of 18-wheel traffic and you can't see everything.
And to me, safety is a big factor and that was one thing that I wanted to bring up.
It did come from a question whether there had been accidents or brush-ups and the answer was that there hadn't been, but there had been some close calls.
And then also the issue of people walking across the...
Gas canopy?
Yeah.
The entire sub-church.
The gas canopy.
The entryway onto the freeway.
Right.
Yeah.
Parallel.
Right.
I'm not sure how that will be stopped by this. Does anybody have an idea about that?
Just by there being less need, but people still do it.
Well, it may not solve the issue completely, but it will probably get rid of the worst of it.
It's like, if there's more parking, somebody tells me the demand is probably going to be pretty constant because it's one of the only options.
It's like southbound to get gas.
I mean, if I'm remembering it correctly, I don't think there's a gas station on the west side going southbound north of a university.
So that's the one location if you still want to go south instead of having to cross over and then cross back over to go further south.
And presumably most people in their right minds don't want to cross an entry ramp on foot, presumably.
Right.
Can't guarantee that.
Right. You never know.
There's always one person who didn't want to try that.
That's true.
Any further discussion? Oh, yes.
I guess just to add on, I do think adding the parking, like you said, it probably won't solve all the issues.
But at least it could at least perhaps, in theory in this idealized state, it could remove people away from parking in front of the dumpster or in front of the fire lanes or where the gas needs to be loaded, things like that.
At least you're going to move that parking at least to somewhere else to where at least the business can actually access those functions as needed.
And yeah, the plantings are a good thing and that's part of the staff recommendation that the motion includes.
And another issue is the location can't really enforce its parking because of how long it takes to, I mean, the incentive isn't there because most of the time they're in, then they're out and they go, but that can still take time. It's hard to enforce the parking rules in that location.
And presumably they could do so with more parking spaces?
It's more of like, it's more of like, there will be less instances of it happening.
Not fully.
People would maybe not want to drive the extra hundred feet to get to the other parking spaces.
Completely consistent with human behavior.
So we have a motion and we have a certain more discussion. Motion and second. Discussion will take place. Should I call the question? I can call the question now. Yes. All in favor?
Aye.
Any opposed?
Any abstain?
Motion carries unanimously.
And then the next item on the agenda are concluding items if there are any.
If not, hearing no items, I adjourn the meeting.