Nov 18, 2024 Historic Landmark Commission on 2024-11-18 5:30 PM

Just in time, we are calling the meeting to order. It is 530, and would you please stand with me as we read our pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one nation indivisible. Thank you all very much. Good to see everybody. Gonna have a fun time. Alright, I have two cards to hear from the audience. I have Miss Anne, is it Howington? Miss Anne, would you like to join us, please? You will have three minutes to speak. And Kathy will keep your time and she'll let you know. Okay, my name is Anne Howington and I'm here to talk about the plan for the historic Evers farmhouse, 2900 Northfield Street. This house means a lot to me. I lived in this house from 1987 to 1999 and raised my family there. The city of Denton is planning to construct a park on this property, but they're considering tearing down the house that was built in 1900. I contend that this historic, this house is historic and should be saved. Why is this structure historic? One reason is that it belonged to a historic Denton family for four generations. This kind of shows some of the highlights of what the Evers family did. They opened a hardware store in 1885. They opened the first electric power plant, dug the first well and opened a water company in Denton. They purchased the largest landfill at the time, 120 acres. They owned farms across Denton, a chicken farm with a million hens, pecan orchards, wheat, cotton, oats and livestock. In 1901, Robert H. Evers was a county commissioner, director of First National Bank and maintained the courthouse clock. Will Evers' son planted all the pecan trees on the courthouse and in 1903 they built the Evers house over on Oak Street that I'm sure you all know about. The country farmhouse on North Valley passed through four generations of Evers. Why important? The home construction. The farmhouse was built in 1900. Sorry, I was thinking I'd have a screen here. The exterior was constructed with cypress wedge and longleaf pine siding. It has a 12-12 pitched roof with eyebrows on gable ends, boat arcs, stump foundation, shiplap interior walls, interior trim of the tall baseboards along the floors, historic molding profiles, sash windows between the wheat weights, 12 foot high ceilings, a wraparound screen porch. Here's what the house looks like now. This is the outside of the house and it has the decorative columns that were added probably between the 30s and 50s. They added the porch on it. This is the original living room. It has the high ceilings, the tall baseboards, the windows. I don't know. It's very historic. Also behind the house there's a barn. I don't know if this may or may not stand. On the back of the house there is a water tower and a tower that had a windmill. I would love to see a windmill put on top of it. They were just for ambiance. Then at the harvest at Hillwood down in Arba they took their water tower where they restored an old house in the middle of housing development. And I would love to see something like that here with the name of the park. This is what the conceptual design is now. They want to take the house down and put a memorial plaque. But this is just a concept at this point. I'm really hoping that somehow their mind can be changed. This is a picture of the house in 1992. This is a picture of the house in 1996. Taken during the Historic Resource Survey. On the survey it shows that it was a high priority for Historic Landmark. This is an idea for what we would like to call it, the Dent Garden and Nature Education Center at Ebers Farm Park. These are different areas that could be used in different ways. Nothing is absolutely planned at this point, but there's talk. I have a petition. We have a petition to save the house. If anybody would be interested in looking online and signing a petition, I have cards. Thank you. Thank you for letting me go over. All right. Our next person is Mr. Lee. We'll give you the same time, Mr. Lee. I just want to say that first I want to say that the Landmark Commission in the City of Denton, you're out of compliance with Section 411.209 of the Texas Government Code. You can't exclude wrongful law. You can't exclude handgun license holders who are carrying in this facility right now. Again, you're in violation of Texas law. I just want to notify you of that. But on my top of this tonight, I concur with everything that that young lady said just currently. That house is historic and it needs to be preserved. And it's more historic than half the things that you guys certify as historic around here. And it's very disturbing, especially what's on the agenda today. The house on 1120 North Locust Street. I went by that site today. It's an older house. It meets the criteria. But I look through the paperwork. I don't see anything. What's the story behind it? I don't understand how it's historic other than it's just an older house. And there are a lot of older houses in Denton. And I want to know the story behind it and the history behind it. And it seems like it does. It's just rubber stamping and a lot of a lot of houses around here just to get a 25% tax abatement. And I think this whole whole process really sucks. And it needs to be reformed. And I'm going to be speaking to my state representatives about reforming this process. And the same goes for the house on 1526 Willow Street. I can't even see the house from the street. There's so much shrubbery in front of the house. I can't even see what's going on back there. And I want to know how is it historic. I look through all the paperwork and the application and they don't say anything how it's historic. It's just an older house. And there are a lot of older houses in Denton. I want to know. It needs to be more stricter criteria about how we're going to pass out this historical designation in the state. And that's pretty much all I have to say. You guys have a nice night. Thank you, Mr. Lee. All right. We are going to move on to item 3A on our agenda is to consider approval of the October 14, 2024 minutes. I take it that you all had an opportunity to read those minutes. Are there any corrections or anything? I'm open for a motion to approve or not. I'm open to a motion to approve or not approve. Did you? I'm sorry. I did not hear you, Commissioner McAdams. I am so sorry. All in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Thank you. All right. Let's move to item 3B, number C, number 8LC24-004. On our agenda is to hold a public meeting and determine whether the presented expenses resulted in a permanent improvement and/or restoration of a local historic landmark property located at 1120 North Locust Street. The site is located on the east side of North Locust Street between Sawyer Avenue and Second Street. All right, Cameron. Thank you, Chair. As stated, it is on that east side of North Locust Street between Sawyer Avenue and Second Street. The owner is Catherine Linus, and so it's highlighted here in red. It is a local historic landmark, and this is what the property or the front of the facade of the property. The request is for a historic landmark tax exemption in accordance with section 10-128. The pairs and updates that were done were done by brick and stone master LLC. They did have a city of dent and permit. They also had the demolition of the existing brick wall, saving and cleaning as many bricks as possible, which they were able to save all of the original brick, adding some jacks so that the brick could actually be kept in place. And then they also installed a weather barrier and then blended the mortar so that it would match the existing mortar as best as possible. So that amounted to $21,000 and $65. So I wanted to show the before. This is the before photos of what the brick walls looked like. This is the after of what it looked like. The request continued, so I did want to note that the permit does not meet that qualifying improvement and/or restoration for a project. So with the removal of the city of dent and cost of that permit, it amounts to a total expense spent as $20,915. So looking at section 10-128D, it's adding that additional 10 years exemption if they have demonstrated permanent improvements and/or restoration to that property. So staff is recommending a favorable determination that the expenses presented, with the exception of the city of dent and permit, resulted in permanent improvement and/or restoration of the property at 1120 North Locust Street. And I can stand for any questions. I noticed that there was a COA that was administrative approval. Correct. October, is that correct? Yes. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Yes. Commissioner, any questions? No, I don't have any questions. I love the attention that's paid here to helping preserve the spirit of the architecture. I know sometimes people who aren't familiar with why these things are encouraged. It's in order to preserve kind of the integrity and look so our neighborhoods keep their neighborhood look. And, you know, it's this kind of detail that's important. So I want to applaud the homeowners for their attention and care in this. Absolutely. Anyone else? Yes, the property owner is here if you all have any questions for her. If not. All right. No questions. I am ready to take a motion to approve or deny or. That we approve it. I'm looking at it at one o'clock this morning. All right. We have a motion to approve as presented by Commissioner McAdams and seconded by Commissioner Tree. All in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Aye. All right. Thank you. All right. The next item 3C has been pulled and we may see that at a later date, but we will not be asking on that tonight. All right. Our next item is item 4A, number HLC 24-049 on our agenda is to receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the design downtown didn't plan, Mr. Sean Richardson. Good evening, Chair and members of the commission. Sean Richardson, Associate Planner. We'll be giving you an update on design downtown didn't plan specifically focused on implementation. You've already had great updates on what's in there. We're not going to retread that ground, but we really want to focus on HLC's role as we move into implementing this plan and getting to the resident vision for the design downtown didn't plan. So as you all know, City Council unanimously adopted the plan in September. Historic preservation recommendations are woven into a whole host of recommendations throughout the plan, including at least nine specific recommendations and eight sub recommendations that involve Historic preservation and or the role for Historic Landmark Commission. I'm sure many of you are aware we did extensive community engagement on this topic. And while not everyone was bringing up historic preservation specifically there was quite a bit of records to people including the culture of Denton, the feel of Denton, things that are all part of what Historic Preservation makes sure that we don't lose. So again, role of Historic Landmark Commission is key here to achieving what people want to see keeping Denton. I'm missing the vision statement but I do want to highlight here specifically the section of stage safeguard the historic artistic character while promoting growth and development. So both parts of that you as Landmark Commission making sure that we are continuing to safeguard Denton, while allowing development change in a way that is appropriate in a way that is well handled and in line with our guidelines, and even helping to guide some of those standards that will help us get where we want to go, while still protecting and preserving our history. So again, y'all are essential to achieving a vision of this plan. You've seen the community priorities before that all eight of these are recommendations in one way or another help to carry these about. I want to specifically highlight the culture part of that. That's particularly the area that many of HLC's roles will be in relation to achieving that part of the vision. And those priorities. So, I want to jump into the highlights here. At the very end of the plan we have a specific implementation section don't try to stare at that I've made it small you don't need to try and read it, please don't. It's just to give you an idea of when you open up the plan, those are the two tables that you're looking at. We divide the implementation actions into policies and projects and each one of those tables and then divide it into, for instance, year one, year five, or complete as the opportunity arises for policy so three categories of projects we divide that into years one to five, year six to 10 years 1115 so again helping us to set near term medium term and long term priorities. And for y'all's purposes in particular recommendations you're particularly connected to, there are two policy implementation actions that would relate to the work of the Historic Landmark Commission, one of those in that year five category, I believe. And then one in the complete as opportunities arise actually the one that's incomplete as opportunities arise is expand opportunities for historic preservation, which you're already working on so way to go. Within the project implementation there are three recommendations that will touch on two of those are in our year one to five so those are things that are priorities right away to get going on, and then another one falls into that more distant years 11 to 15 category. So moving into the actual recommendations. Many of these have subcategories I've chosen not put all of them here you know want to fit it on the slide, you can always review it in the plan we kind of want to keep the highlights here. All of these, so eight sub recommendations under the overall recommendation to a Quaker Town Park master plan. Cameron's already touched on this to an extent that y'all will have an important role as we look to implement that master plan in a number of different ways. So, to a wonderful kind of condensed number of those but that's basically your role in looking at what's proposed for the monuments for history of Quaker Town again, not the y'all be saying this is what it should look like but as we come to that design while working closely with the descendants, you all will of course have a role in reviewing looking at kind of the direction that's headed recommendation to a very important that will be revising and clarifying the local landmark designation to make sure that's really focused on the O'Neill Ford design buildings and landscape features that are intact. And there's some more details within the plan itself about those key areas that our researchers identified as important to make sure that we're protecting in there. Generating design guidelines for new construction in the park to protect historic character. So you're working with y'all to say, really set up guidelines and standards for here's what we can do in the park. Here's how we do it so that we protect that historic character. Over the south so providing potentially some additional city hall space, while protecting the character protecting the integrity of that original O'Neill Ford building. And then, updating the landscaping around the Civic Center and the Emily Fowler Central Library to provide more outdoor space for activities and events at these facilities. So again, because there may be changes to landscaping there that would relate to some of the adjustments to the designation. Forward if I can get it to, huh, there we go. Recommendation 2F. This is one of those that will be in kind of the longer terms of the 11-15 category, but I've specifically then given you the sub bullets because these are particularly in the historic ground. So working with the County Historic Park to collaborate on wayfinding and messaging for the historic park. Collaborating on rotating exhibits between what they have over there that relates to Quaker Town. So finding ways to really partner closely in capturing that history both at their location and over in Quaker Town Park. Make sure that we're doing really partnering effectively there. Collaborating on guided walking tours. So just some ways to expand on how we're honoring history both within Quaker Town Park and over in the County Historic Park. Recommendation 3C and that's the one that y'all are already getting on. That is strengthen our historic preservation opportunities of grants and incentives, historic tax credits, conservation districts, potentially even looking at some view protections for the courthouse and for the Morrison corn kit sign. Updating and strengthening our design guidelines. So really looking at what we have now for just the historic square. How we can improve those and potentially expand those out in ways that make sense to other parts of downtown. Recommendation 4A. So utilizing policy regulations to support music and nightlife. That primarily relates to where there are opportunities to look at how we apply our regulations to older buildings that serve as music venues and where there may be policy change we want to look at to make sure that they can continue operating and upgrading. You know they continue to be viable. Recommendation 4F. Establish a downtown brand and that's going to be specifically relating to where we're going to be looking for opportunities to create things like historic pathways and walking trails to downtown. So as you're going along in particular you may find interpretive markers that guide you to find out more about the history of Denton as you're traveling through downtown. And so some opportunities to bring before you different proposals as we come to those about how we can highlight and honor Denton's history throughout downtown. So you know we're kind of fast there but hopefully that gives you an idea of y'all are going to be very important to implementing this. We're going to be talking to you a lot. There's obviously more in the plan that you can read but we just really want to emphasize that y'all have a very important role to play in achieving the vision of this. We just wanted to kind of give you that preparation, heads up, packed into any questions y'all may have. Commissioner, do you have questions? Oh, so many questions. But we're at the early stages of applying the answers, right? Mr. Jacobson? Yes, sir. I do want to commend your team on an excellent job being out and about in the public. Your public outreach is honestly super impressive. There were so many events, so many opportunities. Your folks put in extra hours, showed up at events, and made sure that everybody had an opportunity to weigh in, some of us more than once even. So that's very much appreciated. I also appreciate the transparency here with giving us the high-level overview of what's going on. Because again, just so most people know, this is why interagency cooperation is important. We are doing our homework. We are listening to the needs and desires of the people. And it's more than just an input thing. It's also showing up to the meetings and talking to your neighbors, getting them involved and excited about it. I appreciate all the work that was put in, and I guess my big question is, so are there any particular projects or aspects that will be involved in this that you see as particularly challenging in terms of historic designation? I myself have heard a lot of comments about the pool, so I'm just curious if you had any thoughts or ideas to prepare us for, are we going to hear a lot about that, a little about that, or do we even know yet? So all of the things related to the pool are right now subject to some discussion with city council. Right, right. So I want you to be careful. Oh, of course. Set that aside. There will be lots of opportunities for public input. Absolutely, absolutely. I can't stress that enough. Beyond that, I would say certainly, I mean, Quaker Town Park is very important, and so we will just in general want to have some good, thoughtful discussions about all that. I mean, I think making sure that we're doing a great job of really listening to the Quaker Town descendants as we look at that design. Those designs are going to be really important, and so I would say just off the top of my head, top of mind, looking at those things that are proposed to go into Quaker Town Park or to change, those are going to be important discussions. I just want to interject. I think it was this last Friday, there was going to be an informal staff report that was included as part of the Friday report for city council, which you can find online. I believe they had a parks department put together an ISR that broke down kind of the breakdown of the Quaker Town Park pool. So it's either, I apologize if I'm mistaken, it's either this past Friday or it's this upcoming Friday, but if you can't find it in this past Friday, it's definitely coming up. Does anyone know what year it was built? Late 1960s. I think it qualifies for historic. Well, it's designated, so it is designated, so it is historic. But yes, so I'm not sure what's in the ISR. I know parks are putting it together, so it's either this past Friday or it's this upcoming Friday, but just wanted to make note of that. If I could make a request just to give us an idea, did it already happen? Is it coming up? I'm going to go hunt for it. I'll find it by tomorrow, if it's out there. Thank you. Mr. McAdams, any questions? Not any questions, but I'm concerned that as it exists now, the park area, which was a home to black people in the past and redeveloped into something else, but I'm aware that the art that shows little children in the park is all white. I think it's kind of insulting that the children who used to play here were black children, but when we put up artwork, it represents Caucasians. And I'd like a little bit more sensitivity to what's real and what should be there. We're doing the fictions in the future. I agree. Absolutely. Well said. No questions now. No, I mean, clearly there's going to be a lot coming our way. I'm the same way. I don't have any questions now, but I know as we see more stuff, there's going to be a lot of questions. I found the plan in our backup material that we had today. I found it vague. And I know that there's more plans that are being talked about. And my feeling with that is that this commission should know more about that at this point. I know you say it's coming. We're doing this. But for instance, the thing with the pool, I'm using it for an example. Built in 1960. I know there's talk going on with city council. When did they bring this in for it? When are we going to know those details on what really is behind the scenes on really what they're thinking. I just felt like it was too vague for us. There should be more information. But I don't have questions now. That's just my thoughts. This is open discussion. That's kind of my feelings on it. I don't know about the other commissioners. We felt that way. But details matter. They do matter. And I didn't feel like we had enough. I don't feel like we're being given enough of those details. I think that it's still very vague. And you're saying, well, you will. You will. But there's a lot of planning going on at the side. I just don't want it to catch us at the end that, oh, we're planning this and now we need you to approve it. And that's really why we're coming here now because the detailed part of actually implementing the plan, almost none of that has actually happened. The detail that's there is what you see in the plan. From that point on, that's what the stage we are entering. And so that's why we're coming to y'all at the beginning of the implementation to say, we actually already need to lay out these processes and figure out how we are going to get from plan A to plan B. There's most likely going to be some additional RFQs to bring in the folks that will do those more detailed plans and designs. So all of that, I say it's coming because literally I couldn't tell you. I mean, you know, you could pin me against, well, I couldn't tell you when it's going to happen because we're still laying that out. So that's why we're trying to come to y'all at the beginning to say, this is coming. And when we know more, you'll know more. That's definitely correct. As Sean stated, we know as much as y'all do, truly. We've seen, you know, the Facebook post for the Quaker Town pool. That's about as much as we've seen, but it's really under council's discretion right now and discussion. I did just check the Friday report. It was not in this past Friday, so it must be upcoming. So let me help me understand this. If it's going to council, but it's built in 1960, is it not under our, for us to approve or not? That's what's kind of gotten me off there. Should that have come to us and then gone to council? So my understanding is they were specifically asking about what is in terms of maintenance, like where it is in terms of its lifespan, which does not have anything to do with HLC that specifically parks because they're the ones who maintain and operate the pool. So when it comes to that, that's my understanding is because like, I'm not doing the ISR. It was directed to parks to do it because they wanted to understand the financing, the maintenance schedule, everything that's taken place in terms of operation and everything since it was constructed, which I don't have any of that information. So that is what I believe is in the ISR and that's what council directed. But in regards to the historic, that's definitely when you will need to be a part of that discussion prior to it going to city council. Hopefully, I mean, that's my understanding in the process of where we're at in the workflow. First, they're trying to diagnose operational costs and all that, but it'll come through here. That's why, you know, coming to Mr. Jacobson in good faith to prepare us with a heads up. And I would just reiterate our chair's point that the more you can have us involved in this process is let us know, I'd be happy to attend just that way I can, I can feel like that we're doing our due diligence to keep up with what those plans are. And yeah, we don't want anybody walking into anything blind. We want to make some good team decisions that might involve us working together, listening to each other and also hearing all the different data that's involved or just what's involved because the plan was approved, but a plan is just a plan. There are no details. Yeah, and I think my struggle is even with the pool and the maintenance with anyone that has owned a historic property. I'm going to tell you, there's always maintenance, it's constant, it is like a money pit, but it is there and we love it and we try to keep all of that integrity that it is and so that's what I'm struggling with on the pool itself. And I would like to call attention to that sculpture that's in the park that was done by the architects, Mount Miller. What's to happen to that? I mean, you know they decided to destroy part of the pool area that was done by Omino Ford. I can attest to that because I have one of those thrown away clothes in my house. Never get it back. But things that somebody who knows about historic things may not recognize that those architects have a number of houses in town, mid-century modern. We're, I think, the only city that has as many as we have and I just think it would be a shame to lose that. And that piece of sculpture was done by Isabel. And, you know, it looks like nothing but the kids love it. Anytime there's something going on in that park, there are kids hanging off that sculpture all over the place. And that's really part of my issue with it being big. It's like, oh, we have this plan to do this and we've kind of seen drawings and think we have plans for this, plan for this, and then we're coming back going, what about that art piece? That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want that planning to happen. And then those things to go away and it's kind of hindsight when you're saying you didn't involve us. That's when I say the vagueness. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where it goes to when we actually are then going to move into more of that detailed planning. Yeah, because I think there's definitely going to have to be conversations between you all and Parksport as well. There's going to have to be work sessions and workshops and everything. So there's going to be a lot of not only engagement between the two boards, but also larger community engagement opportunities where that you all as both boards, you know, would want to be present so you can talk with people and educate and say, this is what we've been thinking. You know, this is a community support. So I think there is, like a Sean said, there's going to be months and months and months, probably years of engagement, honestly, to get a plan that everyone is supportive of. So when you're working on a plan, all that engagement that you say you love and did an excellent job, that's that point in time, right? So I'm not sure when financing and resources and things will be put in place. That could be years down the road. So you have to go back out. Opinions could be different. Conditions could be different based on what was in the plan as the recommended what should be done. So the engagement is going to need to be done even more detailed once we even have the financing in place. What I hear you tell me is I've got a lot of meetings in my future. Yes, you do. Nothing else away from this. Yes, yes. And I'll tell you this, all of these, the three of us are part of the long ratios. We'll be the one and if we do, we'll definitely make sure you all are involved. I would say you all know where to find me. But with the ISR, whenever that gets posted, I'll make sure that I email the commission a copy of that so that you all have it on file. Thank you. Appreciate that. All right. Any other discussion on item? Are we ready to move on? I'll take that as we're ready to move on. Thank you. All right. We're going to move to item 4B number HLC 24-4048 on our agenda is to receive a report and hold the discussion and give staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. Can we do the Ebers House? We've already mentioned it prior. Do we have that down? So yes, we can include that. It is city-owned property at this point, so it will have to be a larger discussion with parks board and parks and recreation. So that is what this flyer is for. I'll go into more depth at the closing with concluding items. But yes, we can add that. I would like to add, I don't think, I think we have to. I think it's something we need to even know that it's owned by the city. I think if we don't, we don't do our due diligence and I'd hate to lose it. Oh, no board structure. I'd hate to lose that structure as well. Okay, so I think we need to add that. Any other thoughts on that? It's been on our radar before and it's still on our radar now. Alright, anyone else have another property? I was going to do concluding items, but I guess I'm going to give an update. Thank you very much. No problem. Alright, any other commissioners have one? My goodness, we're going fast. Alright, we're going to move to item 4C, number HLC 24-052 to hold a discussion regarding the insert landmark commission project matrix. Do we have any requests or anything that you all want to add? This is the current list of requests that are on our matrix. As you can see, a lot of these are ongoing discussions. We do have the Dent Women's Club from last meeting. I put that on hold just because it's a part of the larger Quaker Town discussion. As you all can see, you did ask for Parks and Recreation to be invited last meeting. I have included this invitation. You all should have received an email about a week or two ago from myself extending that invitation as well. That will be this Thursday. If you all are able to be in attendance, we will do a notice of possible form just in case that we end up having four or more of you all attend that meeting. In historic tax assumption discussion, that's still ongoing. That's something Keisha and I and Tina, we're all kind of working behind the scenes doing a final run through this week internally with our data analyst to make sure that everything's lining up and the plan is to. Well, now that I know the chair won't be in attendance, I would like that for everyone to be attendance for that meeting, especially because it is regarding historic tax assumptions and that might be pushed into 2025. But just want to let you know that I'm not just sitting on it is something that is going on behind the scenes. But is there anything else that you all wanted to add or you feel like this is a good list? Next meeting as well, I'm going to do an annual update of kind of where we're at with all of our different work plans. From our 2019 historic preservation plan. But is there anything else or are we. Did we want to consider putting the parkhouse on there just as a. Milestone or something to come back and touch base on or is it already included in one of the items? So I've included it here just to invite parks and recreation. That's why I wanted to extend the invitation first. And then depending on what you all discussed with parks and recreation at that time, then maybe in the December meeting, you all stayed based off our discussion on Thursday, November 21st, we would like to X, Y, and Z. You know, so I think we need a little bit more background of what parks is thinking before we make. Absolutely. Well, absent that, I'm good with what it is and we'll take care, take our pulse of where we're at next month. That sounds really. Anything else? Anyone? I just went out Thursday meetings really and a few with Spanish class. I'm sorry. You can practice your Spanish at the meeting. Now I'm gonna have to. Anyone else? Y'all are quite down there on the other end. Then we are going to move to concluding items. Okay, I have a few concluding items today. So the Brown Brothers Trail property, we did send that via certified mail back in October. It still says it's in transit, has not gone out for delivery. I don't know what's going on. So I think I need, I'm going to go over to USPS this week and check and see what's going on. Because obviously we sent it certified mail for a reason, but it still says it's in transit since October 17, which is concerning. So I'm going to do a check on that. I will let you all know via email where that's at. Obviously, like I said a week or so ago, I emailed you all with this invitation. Just to remind you all that that's this Thursday at the Civic Center from six to eight. We are going to be receiving some new debt and historic landmark plaques sometime in December. So in the next week or two, we're going to be sending out some dates for January and February so that we can do a ribbon cutting for those properties and present them with their plaques. So just be on the lookout for that email. In addition, since our meeting's pretty close, you know, coming up pretty soon, just because we're working with the third Monday of November versus our usual two. If you all at the end of the meeting, once it's concluded, if you can tell Kathy, if you already kind of know off the top of your head, if you're going to be at the December 9th meeting, that would be wonderful. And then in terms of the Southridge Historic Resource Survey update, we have concluded our interviews. We have picked consultants as of right now and so let's go through, finish out the procurement process and go through city council approval. So I can't say the name or anything yet, but we have staff has finished their interviews and have chosen someone that they would like to continue it. So just wanted to let you all know about that. So hopefully in December, or probably not December, probably January, we'll be able to give you some more information regarding that. And then the Friday report, hopefully it comes out this Friday. And if it does, I will send you all via email that as well. And those are all my updates. Thank you. Any other updates from commissioners? Quiet again. See, I think that was a thing. They fed us snacks, got our bellies full, and then it's for you to sit back and be quiet. All right. Well, if there's no other business, I'm going to adjourn the meeting at 613 p.m. Thank you guys. Thank you.