WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.840 good morning everyone welcome to the mobility committee today is Wednesday October the 30th 00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:17.880 2024 tonight 10 a.m. council work session room it looks like we do have a quorum present 00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:27.960 for the meeting and our first item is the citizens comment on agenda items this section 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:35.400 allows citizens to comment on any individual consideration on the agenda do we have any 00:00:35.400 --> 00:00:43.160 has anybody heard of anyone okay thank you second items are individual consideration 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:52.160 a mc-24-033 consider approval of the minutes of September 25th 2024 I'm sure we all have 00:00:52.160 --> 00:00:56.680 read those and absorbed those this morning can we get a move that we approve of minutes 00:00:56.680 --> 00:01:03.960 this is great can we get a second second all right any discussion all right so can we get 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:14.200 a vote yeah your name okay that sounds like it is approved so thank you we're gonna go 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:21.720 on to be mc-24-034 receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the city of Denton 00:01:21.720 --> 00:01:30.480 transportation mobility project status report so it says 45 minutes that's for your questions 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.160 because it won't take me that long as long as I can get somebody to help me turn it on 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:41.360 we will hold our questions to the end you know all this stuff already I'll just give 00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:48.520 you the new stuff oh it's right there look at that okay we'll skip the summary that's 00:01:48.520 --> 00:01:51.680 just the dollars that we're chasing about five billion dollars on all these different 00:01:51.680 --> 00:02:02.080 projects I'm gonna make it a little bit smaller so on 35 north essentially what the order 00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:14.760 of processing is good the order that we're gonna do this in is the the oh the purple 00:02:14.760 --> 00:02:25.040 one oh seven six is being constructed now with a 455 project oh eight one will then 00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:32.960 go next and then oh seven four at the bottom yellow will go next and then the green at 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:38.080 the top will go last and the reason we're holding that last one honestly is some of 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:43.800 the projects we have in Denton County like the 121 corporate project I don't know if 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:47.920 I told you about that that's about to go under the knife in Lewisville just south of where 00:02:47.920 --> 00:02:53.320 the main streets already being built and if it comes in with a cost overrun they're gonna 00:02:53.320 --> 00:02:59.560 borrow the money from that northern project for a year cycle so that's why they're holding 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:05.660 off on it so the northern project is that the green project takes it from North of Sanger 00:03:05.660 --> 00:03:10.200 to the county line right you're gonna hold off on that one if something goes to see what 00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:16.660 happens on the project in the south and we're working on utilities for each one of those 00:03:16.660 --> 00:03:22.360 sections I give you the utilities we're working on y'all are primarily impacted by oh seven 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:29.400 four and that everything's running according to the process now this is the merge project 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:35.960 and we're gonna show you the map but this project you'll start to see start January 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:42.280 we had a pre-con and they're gonna get started in January of 2025 so they're giving you your 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:49.720 Thanksgiving and Christmas and then they're gonna break your world that's it's a painful 00:03:49.720 --> 00:04:00.640 it's gonna be a very painful project it's 56 months long when the doctor says this is 00:04:00.640 --> 00:04:07.040 gonna hurt a lot so you've been seeing a lot of utility movement out there that's that's 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:11.760 the game that we're doing I had to have a delayed start because of those utilities everything's 00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:16.880 making its way through the process the contractor has been notified that January will be the 00:04:16.880 --> 00:04:29.520 notice to proceed so yeah and as soon as it starts remember what we do as soon as we start 00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:32.960 we'll then have a next page we'll have the construction report and we'll show you what 00:04:32.960 --> 00:04:37.940 the status is on the project as it goes and we'll give you an estimated completion date 00:04:37.940 --> 00:04:47.240 okay so the other part that's gonna probably make y'all's life miserable is the mayhill 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:56.560 job we're gonna let this in June right so June you got January the merge goes under 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:02.880 the knife hard and then in June this one will let and this is from 288 all the way south 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:07.280 the mayhill because remember we're going to be doing those direct connects over brinker 00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:12.800 and so that will start and this is a like I said every time the mayhill interchange 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:18.080 will be bigger than the 288 interchange at golden triangle and so it's a big footprint 00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:29.800 and there'll be lots of trauma there too okay I live off of that so I mean I always check 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:37.040 the the the map to see where the traffic is before I decide to head towards 35 sometimes 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:43.080 I'm gonna head towards Gainesville yeah again the utilities are the critical path but we've 00:05:43.080 --> 00:05:47.360 got those if they're not highlighted that means they're not a problem if they are highlighted 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:53.440 that means we're just telling you what we did last okay so the frontage roads segment 00:05:53.440 --> 00:06:03.520 this is a segment at city didn't interest to dance from 407 north to 24 not 24 2499 00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:16.960 2449 2449 yes and that if for those that don't know that also is we'll show it that's also 00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:23.200 will be absorbed in the 2449 will be absorbed into the Luke 288 job on the west we'll get 00:06:23.200 --> 00:06:31.400 to that in a second WSP is doing the work we have a 213 million dollars and we have 00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:36.800 a about a 213 million dollar job we're going to do we have to have a meeting with the city 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:44.360 staff and text that because I think there's a interchange and it slips my mind but it's 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:51.160 one of y'all's that they were planning on not building anything but the frontage roads 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.920 through that area but I think both the city of Denton and and the county are saying developments 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:01.160 going faster than we thought so we got to figure out a way to include it and if it's 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:07.360 a money thing then we're going to borrow it from that project north of Sanger so we're 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.760 going to have a meeting on this and then we'll be able to come back and tell you we'll give 00:07:10.760 --> 00:07:17.060 you a schematic of what is and isn't included in that interim job you really are holding 00:07:17.060 --> 00:07:23.480 your questions okay this is a little trade-outs for talking about this is 2449 but it will 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:28.000 be tight the loop will take over that portion of it and then there'll be a t-intersection 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:34.040 for 2449 here and then that's the loop going back up around past the airport back over 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:43.880 288 this job is supposed to be ready let in April of 2026 it's about 227 million dollars 00:07:43.880 --> 00:07:47.920 it's a controlled access facility that means it has frontage roads and main lanes and grade 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:53.400 separation so you'll be great separated 380 it'll be great separate the railroad and the 00:07:53.400 --> 00:07:58.920 other major arterials that the city's identified in the southern portion and when if we had 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:03.600 to face construct it we'll build the inside northbound frontage road first because that 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:10.820 allows development to come to the loop and establish connections that will be permanent 00:08:10.820 --> 00:08:21.840 going forward okay and then because Luke 288 is on the north part is got a lot of development 00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:25.720 impacting it we started the environmental clearance on that we're going to be done 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:34.760 July 25 which means we can protect the corridor we also need a meeting with city staff related 00:08:34.760 --> 00:08:42.320 to Giesling area and a development that we need to work out but this is a again taken 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:49.040 288 which is a is a controlled access facility by permit and what we're going to do is build 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:52.680 it as a controlled access facility by structure which means we'll have frontage roads main 00:08:52.680 --> 00:08:59.720 lanes and grade separations and that's you know ninety two million dollars right now 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:07.440 we've got Westwood on it with Mark Sluder working on that and we it also includes for 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:13.840 the next project I think this body break connection from 77 to the loop that's the y'all y'all 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:20.320 call that phase seven of Bonnie Bray we've included it in the 288 job because we needed 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:27.960 to and the state and the NPO is committed to fund that section so that's all yellow 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:32.080 it means there's that's different from your last month's meeting but pretty much everything 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:37.280 in there I've already told you about and that body ray seven segment seven I just showed 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:41.560 as an individual project but this is what's included in the 288 job and it'll has the 00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:54.520 same schedule as the 28 north project okay FM 1515 we're going to be ready to let by 00:09:54.520 --> 00:09:59.560 the probably the end of next year we had to back up and do some design modifications for 00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:05.800 some of the companies there that let us know that they didn't like our design after we 00:10:05.800 --> 00:10:11.600 had cleared so we had to go back and do a reval to change it and so we're back on track 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:20.240 it's a 70 million dollar roadway it'll be six lines when done and the intent is the 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:26.200 historically the intent has been the city has made commitments in the past that they 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.560 want to take this off system so they can manage it the way they want to manage it because 00:10:29.560 --> 00:10:38.560 it goes right to your airport 1173 this is the north part so we're rerouting it as a 00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:44.680 city requesting the third floor plan to Bartow Road and we're coming in to town and we're 00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:51.240 working out some details with a crumb right now on they have angled parking and they have 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:59.760 parking in the middle of where median would be angle parking there well that's going to 00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:06.480 go away so we're working with them on finding a we've done had to do this in 377 in our 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:12.880 gala as well find a way to do some adjacent parking and we've had luck in the past with 00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:18.960 tech stock being able to include that in the project but we're ready to let August of next 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:24.640 year part of this will be built with the 35 job the merge because we go all the way up 00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:36.400 to 77 but just past 77 so the tie-in for the new 1173 will be stubbed out there there's 00:11:36.400 --> 00:11:42.120 a lot of utility I mean dried a lot of drainage issues here and we're going to do the crossing 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:47.720 at the railroad track is fairly expensive as well we'll skip the outer loop because you're 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:55.640 about to get inundated with that in a good way how about that elmond locus huh yeah tell 00:11:55.640 --> 00:12:02.720 you what the city made it clear that they really wanted that thing done before Halloween 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:09.640 I'm not sure why but they got it done and y'all's partner with your staff and it was 00:12:09.640 --> 00:12:19.960 it was they got it done I was when does the north part start recording this we're working 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:26.120 on it the tests that do with the timing of the county's issuance of their bonds so we're 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.720 probably looking at another issuance in the first of the year so that you don't take out 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:37.440 650 million dollars you take it out in tranches as you need it so it'll probably be an authority 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.760 issuance and then we'll partner with the city on that northern partner goes all the way 00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:53.360 to 380 yeah so just a cash flow issue all right and the further the rest of y'all those 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.720 are just we usually do a test at the end to see if y'all know what these acronyms are 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:02.400 without looking but you know you've been doing really well but not calling out acronyms yes 00:13:02.400 --> 00:13:10.560 I tried my my wife said she was gonna be watching so I had to yeah so questions I mean you guys 00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:16.480 are usually peppered me all right I'm sure some questions came through and you're ready 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:23.720 for questions and and this this is likely a me problem I was thinking that we numbered 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:30.000 Bonnie Bray the numbers from north to south is that incorrect from south to north south 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:39.440 to north okay so your your Bonnie Bray is seven so the reason they're that way is because 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:44.400 we started in the south first the county in the previous bond program we had money with 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:50.240 the city to build Bonnie Bray from the south of southern terminus north past vintage and 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.280 then the next segment and then during that time we also added vintage where we took it 00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:00.120 from Bonnie Bray and took it back over to the to the to the frontage road for the 35 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:06.640 w so we started in the south and we've been like creeping north okay and then the very 00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:16.080 very big first of your presentation page three is it is that yeah three um where specifically 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:23.080 does the construction start on 35 w and 35 e go to the marriage you want to merge okay 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:28.800 so I get that question a lot and the answer is everywhere because they had once the contract 00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:33.880 signed the contractor has full rights to that entire corridor we what the first thing we'll 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:39.200 do in January is we'll get you their their their intent on where they're going to work 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:48.080 and what their phasing is and we've been the staff that was there they proposed a phasing 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:53.240 of that project at the at the kickoff meeting and and we can we can share that to you on 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:59.240 a regular basis but it changes with circumstances so they can start everywhere because it's 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:04.080 not they don't go build it in increments they build it from the you know below ground up 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:10.680 and so they have to do all the underground work all the grading in in linear links and 00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:17.040 then they put the road up and typically where the road to this is this big they have a lot 00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:22.180 of areas they can work outside of the existing lanes if you go drive down 35 and I'm not 00:15:22.180 --> 00:15:26.040 encouraging you to do that but if you get to Dallas North Dallas where they're doing 00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:31.940 that design build project you'll see they've been able to build almost half the project 00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:37.720 on the on the on the I'm going to call it the west side not really having to touch any 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.360 of the main lanes yet because they're building big structures that's how wide the roads are 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:53.960 going to be it's the same thing here that's all I got all right good you ready yep okay 00:15:53.960 --> 00:16:02.800 so do I don't want to get into the outer loop segments but do we know on the 74 CSJ in the 00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:10.240 first project do is the plans county plans for the rodeo alignment and how that's fitting 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:19.360 in finalized they'll have that okay all right cool and then yeah I wrote my notes for the 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:26.480 merge of five years of hell that's my only note I don't think I said that it's painful 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:36.600 okay for the the 288 where we the right of way acquisition is on hold man I was hoping 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:40.840 you know I wouldn't notice that because I get in trouble every time I answer this text 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:49.520 dot and as a whole had a reduction in their revenue stream because they peaked at 2024 00:16:49.520 --> 00:16:53.720 that was I don't know why they would shoot for that that year this year but every year 00:16:53.720 --> 00:17:00.120 after that till 2030 it's kind of the funds are going down in order to level off that 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:07.160 decline they took money out of their developer authority and they took money out of the district 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:13.360 discretionary funds to put into construction so for example the Dallas district submitted 00:17:13.360 --> 00:17:20.760 for their construction budget I mean engineering budget consultant budget well about 1.9 billion 00:17:20.760 --> 00:17:29.600 dollars and the commission cut it to 1.4 so they got they were doing their problem is 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.640 they were doing too good job at getting these projects ready and when they get them ready 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:38.400 they find the money to let and that includes buying the right away and utilities in advance 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.560 of these projects being funded they don't have enough money in the right away budget 00:17:42.560 --> 00:17:48.040 either now and so what the district has been telling us we have to say is that they are 00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:52.520 prioritizing they're not stopping projects they're just prioritizing projects that are 00:17:52.520 --> 00:18:03.040 currently funded so it's not currently funded but you get your funding by getting it ready 00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:10.080 to let so it's a chicken and the egg circular I think by next year though we'll have this 00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:15.920 resolved because they do see this is impacting a lot of projects statewide but what the county's 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.760 doing and what we encourage everybody to do is we're doing a lot of these projects we're 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:28.720 doing outside of their cash flow so we pay for the engineering we do all the work and 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.120 so we're going to have our projects further along because all these other projects that 00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:35.560 they're having to put on hold some of their putting on hold from a design standpoint as 00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:41.000 well we'll keep moving on ours outside of their system so that we're when the money 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.880 does come back we're further along in the process and we can make ourselves whole out 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:51.560 of out of the funding when it does materialize so I get that question too what the county 00:18:51.560 --> 00:18:58.040 has been doing for 30 years is they do the advanced planning and I haven't the county 00:18:58.040 --> 00:19:03.160 hasn't had to put money into construction for these projects for a very long time because 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:08.760 we get the environmental clearance done in the schematic the done the right-of-way map 00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:14.840 done and then a lot of times we do the PS any as well so we put in you know somewhere 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:19.080 in the neighborhood of 8 to 9 percent of the total cost of the project but rarely none 00:19:19.080 --> 00:19:26.680 of the construction itself so that's where we get our money back okay I also know okay 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:31.320 this will probably you can tell me if this is in the outer loops bits or not but because 00:19:31.320 --> 00:19:37.720 I'm thinking y'all had that meeting with the the Kingsway folks for the emergency access 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:44.000 to 288 do we get any take homes out of that it just said you had a meeting yeah I don't 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.800 do the technical stuff so I'm hoping your staff knows that but we're doing whatever 00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:54.120 we got to do to keep those people understanding what we're doing so I can get you that answer 00:19:54.120 --> 00:20:04.600 like after this okay and then the do we have any clue what happened on the the Elman Locust 00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:12.400 asphalt quality failures what what went wrong are you talking about on Eagle yeah for the 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:18.720 first segment that we we pushed through and got got in twice before the whole lean activities 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.720 so the only part I know was is that there there was some heaving of the pavement due 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:29.120 to a drainage pipe being clogged but I don't know what that I've not seen that yet from 00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:35.120 from yeah Elman Locust that that you in there south of downtown we had to have a read you 00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:41.960 know torn up and rebuilt right we it was that was a that's what I was told that the heaving 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:48.760 was caused because the pipe got was cleared by debris I'm not sure what debris and it 00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:58.760 pushed up yeah I was wondering coming up Trevor crane director of capital projects so since 00:20:58.760 --> 00:21:02.920 tech stop was running that project we didn't ask for all the testing reports those types 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:08.760 of things so I don't know the actual reason why the pavement failed but they only had 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:13.360 to replace the wearing course so it wasn't a subgrade issue my assumption is it was something 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:17.760 to do with the asphalt mix or when they placed it that it was either too hot too cold there's 00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:21.080 a lot of things that could have happened but the testing came back said that it didn't 00:21:21.080 --> 00:21:25.920 meet our specifications so tech stop made them remove the wearing course and put down 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:32.720 the correct product that that appreciate that that's all my they didn't ask me for any money 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:42.000 so I didn't know about it yes so you said that text on is having its funding go down 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:48.960 till 2030 is that going to return to the like current level at 2030 or just talk a little 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:55.160 bit more about that situation please it's very difficult because so it's cyclical under 00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:00.960 cyclical everyone to say it like I've been doing this for about 30 plus years and funding 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.000 goes up funding goes down just depends on the mood of the legislature at the time so 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:14.600 what typically happens is you have money in an account and the legislators and I don't 00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:19.920 mean this in any disrespectful way they see the text that still has five six seven billion 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.920 dollars in their account and they think they don't need any money with the problem is that 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:30.080 they're already allocated four years out to project so the money is not spent but it's 00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:33.680 encumbered and so when they come back and ask for more money they're going you haven't 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:41.880 spent what you got and that's a that's a perennial problem we have that's why this last cycle 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:48.440 the commission not only spent a hundred billion dollars a year for the two year by annum they 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:54.280 also have a let mark that they want everybody hit that's why we're telling you if you have 00:22:54.280 --> 00:23:01.880 a lot date you have to hit your lead date because they want to keep their their funding 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:08.560 allocations up because they get scrutinized by the state and so they've taken away tools 00:23:08.560 --> 00:23:13.880 from us so that's also hard but it's just cyclical I mean if they they sometimes they 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:20.400 give us money sometimes they don't and when this crop that's there now goes awake this 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:26.640 is like the fifth one I've gone through we're preparing to go back to what works and they 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:31.360 that's controlling congestion through these total managed lanes so a lot of these facilities 00:23:31.360 --> 00:23:38.520 we're building or planning to build or will accommodate that refit and the reason I say 00:23:38.520 --> 00:23:47.440 that is is the previous 10 years before 2020 and on we built 21 billion dollars worth of 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:52.000 roads with seven billion dollars worth of money from the state and that's because we 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:58.920 used all those tools that we originally had now we don't have but it's just cyclical and 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:05.280 then the thing is is if I'm working for you you don't panic in the valley right you just 00:24:05.280 --> 00:24:12.160 keep moving because when they do bring back the money they want to show instant success 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.560 and if you stalled when you didn't think there's any money and you kept going and when the 00:24:17.560 --> 00:24:22.400 money shows you're further ahead than everybody else you get funded first so I don't really 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:30.080 it doesn't really bother me this is the first time in 30 years except for the Maharishi where 00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:34.300 they didn't have money for right away. 00:24:34.300 --> 00:24:42.240 That's interesting thank you for giving us that you know that lesson that's a lesson 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:50.600 lesson learned did you have any questions at all okay well I had one question in particular 00:24:50.600 --> 00:25:02.280 I'm always interested in that 380 to exchange to 288 and I drive out that way kind of frequently 00:25:02.280 --> 00:25:10.960 and I haven't in my vision figured out where that's exactly going to be we've got a drawn 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:16.600 we can show you we probably should we had a public meeting we had a public meeting on 00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:21.640 it that I apparently missed it's okay all that means is I can we can send you some some 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:27.120 dot shut drawings on it but the drawing that Chandra and I were talking about yesterday 00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:34.520 which shows the the technically and locally preferred alignment on that property that's 00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:39.160 in question and it does clip some of their development so we've got to address that so 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:44.040 we know generally I mean enough to tell a building that it's going to lose a corner 00:25:44.040 --> 00:25:49.840 if it doesn't move yeah it's not built yet where the alignment is but it's again we're 00:25:49.840 --> 00:25:54.760 talking about being cleared next summer yeah so we're we've got an alignment that we believe 00:25:54.760 --> 00:26:02.820 everybody's happy with and for some reason because that area appears to be congested 00:26:02.820 --> 00:26:08.720 to me it may be the canopy or whatever it is it appears to be congested to me and in 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:16.960 my mind I'm thinking of a ramp you know of some sort that is going to come above so it 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.880 essentially there isn't some elevation to it because you have to what's going to happen 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:28.120 is if you're coming west on 380 and you want to go on to 288 you'll drive and you'll go 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:33.960 up onto the connection ramps and go straight and it becomes 288 and it goes right into 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:40.720 288 Windsor Kings Row and you just keep going okay if you want to go into town and you want 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:49.040 to hit 288 south of where we're going north you'll exit come down and under the ramp going 00:26:49.040 --> 00:26:55.520 up and go to the existing 288 and then you can go into town or go south on the so it 00:26:55.520 --> 00:27:05.000 is a it's elevated in areas but we also reduce the design speed I think down from 70 to 60 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.320 miles an hour which gives us a little tighter right curve you'd think people that are up 00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:15.480 on a bridge would want to drive slower anyway so we're serpentine through there so if you're 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:21.960 in the coming going west on 380 you need to be over in the further two right lanes to 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:28.600 do your business on 288 that's where you want to be on the outside lines to get to anything 00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:38.000 on the at grade okay great thank you I'll get an exhibit for you okay that'll be great 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.900 I don't have any additional questions but I certainly do appreciate and I think we all 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:49.760 appreciate you coming through and and being transparent with us on some of the stuff that's 00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:55.280 happening I don't have a good enough memory to lie to people I mean either I'm really 00:27:55.280 --> 00:28:01.480 really I'm good at that or bad at that I don't know which every way but also I'm also very 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:08.640 excited about the Mayhill project yeah just getting off the freeway now and going over 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:18.680 to Mayhill to you know off the bypassing that 288 yep you all that's a good job I mean we're 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:24.200 all excited I use it all the time now I mean I live out there so yeah yeah I do too I like 00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:33.760 it and then what about that Woodrow North South part that goes to the Edwards going over that 00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:41.920 little railroad track it's at a city question over there about Mayhill you know how Mayhill 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.000 hits a Woodrow and then you can go over Woodrow and instead of going over Woodrow I might 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:57.080 want to make a right turn and go towards my home if I lived over if I lived over to the 00:28:57.080 --> 00:29:00.760 right to Edwards y'all know where it was am I seeing the right road? 00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:07.720 Do you mean Colorado? Colorado oh I'm saying Woodrow I meant Colorado I'm sorry Colorado 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.200 yeah I'm not sure exactly what we're talking about if you let me know we'll look at it 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:16.160 but yeah so the Mayhill project did it did limit the right hand turn if you're going 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:21.320 north on Mayhill you can no longer turn right and go over the DCTA tracks so you'll have 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:25.280 to go straight over the Mayhill bridge and back around if you want to do that same thing 00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:28.760 if you're on the other side you've got to take a right come all the way back to Mayhill 00:29:28.760 --> 00:29:31.960 and then come over the bridge so it's going to stay like that it's going to stay like 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:40.000 that yes ma'am that was the whole intent though is to not have that great crossing and I actually 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.360 live back there and I do that what he just said you gotta go around yeah all day long 00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:48.920 it's okay it's way better than it ever was okay okay well I haven't done that so but 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:53.200 I've been kind of looking over there and seeing what's going on um well if that's it do you 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.160 have anything else it seemed like you wanted to say something all right well thank you 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:06.040 very much I'll be back in a second with these guys okay thank you okay um we're we're going 00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:13.920 to move on to CMC two four days zero three five receiver report and hold a discussion 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:26.560 regarding the Denton County outer loop so excited we're excited so I have a presentation today 00:30:26.560 --> 00:30:30.960 I'll introduce myself in just a second it's a little long so I'll try to go through it 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:35.400 quickly so we can get plenty of time for Q&A I'd love to get to your you know what you 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:40.860 guys are concerned about so let me introduce myself I'm Tony Kimme I work with LGA engineering 00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:45.960 I'm the project manager on the Denton County outer loop project of course what we're doing 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.000 is trying to clear that corridor schematically and environmentally so that the corridor can 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:57.640 be protected as we go forward I have Madeline Shepherd with me over here she's with one 00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:02.160 of our partner firms and she's heading up all of the outreach associated with the project 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:08.040 public involvement everything else associated with that project so this is what we're going 00:31:08.040 --> 00:31:11.640 to talk about today I don't want to go too deep into it other than just to say I'll try 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.920 to rush through this and just you know so that everybody understands where we've been 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:21.000 and where we're going so this shows our study area for the project you can see over there 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:28.600 on I-35 to the to the west and Dallas North Tollway to the east it's about 35 miles between 00:31:28.600 --> 00:31:32.560 those two excuse me about 23 miles between those two and our study area goes all the 00:31:32.560 --> 00:31:40.440 way up to 455 to the north and all the way down to loop 288 and 380 to the south. 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:46.720 This is part of our regional outer loop so this project will team up with other counties 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:51.480 in order to provide an outer loop for the region you can see the Denton County portion 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:56.080 there in green and then it continues through Collin County Rockwall County Kauffman County 00:31:56.080 --> 00:32:03.240 and hopefully someday through Ellis County as well. One of the things that we just concluded 00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:08.160 was our feasibility study we've been working on that a little over a year and through that 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.440 study and I'll get into more detail on that in just a second but through that we were 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:16.000 able to develop the purpose and need for this project so it's important to understand the 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.480 purpose and need it's the factual foundation to screen and compare design alternatives 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:26.000 and demonstrate through measurable and quantifiable metrics where improvements are needed. I don't 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.920 think there's any surprise to anybody that lives in Denton County that some of the things 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.640 that are driving the need for the project include things like rapid and current rapid 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:39.860 current and projected population and traffic growth. Also we've seen a lot of higher crash 00:32:39.860 --> 00:32:44.440 rates on these roadways than you normally would see statewide from a statewide average 00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:50.200 perspective and then you also have in this part of the county you have a really limited 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:57.400 mobility from an east-west contiguous east-west standpoint. FM428 of course exists out there 00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:02.080 but it has its problems for sure and so those are the types of things that we look at when 00:33:02.080 --> 00:33:07.320 we do our need for the project. The purpose of the proposed project within the project 00:33:07.320 --> 00:33:11.680 limits is to address population and traffic growth of course and also to support a safe 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:18.440 and resilient east-west mobility and for east-west mobility and connectivity. I'll break that 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:21.760 down a little bit more you know again this is just kind of rehashing what you already 00:33:21.760 --> 00:33:28.920 know but the growth between 2010 and 2020 the the county grew by almost 40 percent and 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:33.040 we see that growth continuing and right now the projections are that the county will be 00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:39.520 north of 1.5 million people by 2045. You can see in the middle there where we're talking 00:33:39.520 --> 00:33:44.500 about the crash rates that that top portion in the middle there that is what we call a 00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:50.320 crash heat map. It shows you where we have accidents of varying different types through 00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:55.400 the corridor you can see again if it's showing in a red color that means it's higher than 00:33:55.400 --> 00:34:00.200 a statewide average for those type of roadways and you can see there in the Denton area of 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.740 course we have some issues associated with transportation and also in the Aubrey area. 00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:09.240 And then also we went ahead and took some of the traffic projections that the North 00:34:09.240 --> 00:34:13.320 Central Council of Government provides us and we applied them to the current system 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:17.560 down there on the bottom you can see a lot of red and that just means that those existing 00:34:17.560 --> 00:34:22.360 systems will fail as the population continues to grow and also the traffic continues to 00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:27.240 grow and then I'm just demonstrating on the far right the connectivity issues that we 00:34:27.240 --> 00:34:35.360 talked about as far as east west movement. Guess what guys land is being developed quickly 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:41.600 so between 2015 and 2021 more than 20,000 acres were developed in Denton County and 00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:47.000 just for our project limits within the study area we have at least 5,000 acres of additional 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.560 land that are you know within the study area that are planned for development and then 00:34:50.560 --> 00:34:55.000 we call this our land development heat map so depending on the color the closer it gets 00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:01.280 to red means it's closer to actually go into construction. Just to let you know there have 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.640 been various background studies we've incorporated all that information into our feasibility 00:35:05.640 --> 00:35:10.840 study probably the most recent one they concluded in 2019 was by North Central Texas Council 00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:14.760 of Governments called the Denton Greenbelt Corridor Feasibility Study they did determine 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:18.920 that a freeway was needed they actually came up with a couple of alignments we study those 00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:24.040 alignments and incorporate them into our feasibility studies we went forward. So where are we at 00:35:24.040 --> 00:35:28.400 now right we've concluded that and now we're moving into the environmental impact study 00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:35.040 phase so with that environmental impact study it requires us to conduct more in-depth environmental 00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:39.840 studies and we've been able to so far and also to develop schematic design for various 00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:44.800 alternatives and we're going to go over those in just a second here. Okay so an environmental 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:48.920 impact statement I won't read all of this things but there are a couple of important 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:53.560 parts to know about that first off an environmental impact statement is required by the National 00:35:53.560 --> 00:35:57.320 Environmental Policy Act or NEPA that's by the way one of the acronyms that John had 00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:03.400 on his little cheat sheet there. It requires federal agencies to assess environmental effects 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.520 of their proposed actions prior to making decisions if the project is to receive federal 00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:11.840 funding it must adhere to NEPA and of course something this large you want federal funding 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:16.480 to be involved. By the way the environmental impact statement or the EIS is the most rigorous 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:22.040 level of environmental review under NEPA and is prepared when it's anticipated that the 00:36:22.040 --> 00:36:28.440 project could significantly affect the quality of human and natural environment. Let's see 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:34.520 if there's anything else I want to cover on this. Denton County intends to obtain the 00:36:34.520 --> 00:36:40.520 environmental clearance for the project from TxDOT through the NEPA process so that federal 00:36:40.520 --> 00:36:45.680 funds can be applied and also we want to do that as quickly as possible so that the corridor 00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:52.720 can be protected from future development and then you know based on NEPA process TxDOT 00:36:52.720 --> 00:36:58.040 determined that the project will now be classified or how it will now be classified and prepared 00:36:58.040 --> 00:37:04.640 as an EIS that will evaluate a range of build and no build alternatives. So this breaks 00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:10.720 down the EIS phase a little bit more and it's important to know the feasibility phase far 00:37:10.720 --> 00:37:15.880 left is we've already concluded and the EIS phase just started and we're starting that 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.040 with scoping meetings both agency scoping meetings and public scoping meetings. We had 00:37:20.040 --> 00:37:24.480 our first agency scoping meeting we had about three weeks ago that's with all the resource 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:30.880 agencies associated think of like the Corps of Engineers, Texas Parks and Wildlife those 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:36.000 types of folks and we had our first public scoping meeting last night and we're having 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:42.320 our second one in the series tonight here in Denton. We had about 260 folks show up 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:46.540 last night so it was really good to see them and we've had other public meetings so a lot 00:37:46.540 --> 00:37:51.040 of them were familiar faces. Excuse me where did you have that meeting last night? We had 00:37:51.040 --> 00:38:00.240 this one in Pilot Point at Midway Church. Tonight it's at NBC Suites. Right thank you 00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:06.360 John. We also had to issue a notice of intent this goes into the Federal Register we did 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:13.800 that what thank you September 27th. That is significant first it really alerts everybody 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:20.840 in the country that this project is going to an EIS but it also sets us on a two year 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:27.960 clock so we have two years to conclude the EIS process. The next phase that we go into 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:32.320 is what we call analysis and public meeting that's where we're going to analyze alternatives 00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:35.640 and carry those forward we're going to go much deeper into those which means we're going 00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:41.480 to develop more schematic designs we're also going to host additional public meetings. 00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:46.160 The next big significant one after that and this is important is that we go into what 00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:53.060 we call the draft EIS and the public hearing. So we go into this pub that's around a public 00:38:53.060 --> 00:38:57.560 meetings and we will have various alternatives that we've evaluated and we'll present that 00:38:57.560 --> 00:39:01.000 to the public and those will be fully evaluated and you'll see some of the details on that 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:08.320 in just a minute but when we get to this public hearing right before that we have to submit 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:15.200 the draft EIS and in that document it will identify the preferred alternative and that's 00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:19.400 what everybody's waiting for right so. Who are you submitting that to? So we submit that 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:24.720 document to TxDOT through their environmental folks and then that goes through an entire 00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:29.560 process it's not just TxDOT it also goes to a lot of federal resource agencies and also 00:39:29.560 --> 00:39:34.640 state resource agencies as well but one thing I want to let you all know is that we will 00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:42.120 host a meeting with elected officials and we do this in a special way so that we're 00:39:42.120 --> 00:39:46.480 not creating a quorum problem or anything like that but we will conduct these meetings 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:51.400 right before we publish the draft EIS so that the public you know the elected officials 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:57.320 know about what and it's usually like right before that I mean it's a day or two before 00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:02.640 we actually submit the draft EIS. At that public hearing we will go over that preferred 00:40:02.640 --> 00:40:07.600 alternative we will receive comments we'll process those and then we're basically rolling 00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:12.400 towards the final EIS and we'll look over some schedules here in just a second but this 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.960 gives you an idea of just kind of the process that we're in right now. Just as a reminder 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:23.840 the feasibility study started out with 48 different alternative alignments so we started 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.400 kind of from ground zero even though we did incorporate previous studies we wanted to 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.880 look at everything and some of this was based on feedback that we had seen in the previous 00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.920 studies and we wanted to make sure that we put those to rest in this process and during 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:41.320 our public meeting number one in May we actually showed that process how we went from those 00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:46.280 48 down to the seven that you see there on the bottom of the slide and then eventually 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:51.720 we had a meeting this past November where we basically resolved those seven down to 00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:58.080 these two most feasible alternatives going forward. We refer to those as the red and 00:40:58.080 --> 00:41:03.440 blue alignments not alternatives but alignments there's nothing political in the colors that 00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:08.360 we chose on that I just want everybody to know at this point in time anyway that was 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:19.840 a weak attempt at a joke. We got it and we all laughed. That'll be really fun next Wednesday. 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:26.880 Right I guess you know depending on your point of view right so now we're going to talk about 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:31.640 alternatives right so before I talked about alignments now we're talking about alternatives 00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:36.840 so then county and textile must identify an alternative that would best accomplish the 00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:41.840 purpose and need the build alternative segments shown on the next slide are based on the data 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:45.720 collected during the feasibility study and all the process and we've done up to this 00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:51.960 point combinations of these segments make up for end to end build alternatives to be 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:56.040 evaluated by the process. One of the things that's important to know is that when we do 00:41:56.040 --> 00:42:02.600 an EIS we have to have at least two build alternatives go through the entire process 00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:06.320 and then we also have to have the no build alternative and that's the next bullet. Evaluation 00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:10.640 of the no build would look at the impact of what will happen if no freeway is built but 00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:15.400 projected population and traffic continue to grow it will also account for other roadway 00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:19.800 improvements in the study area so basically any roadway that you have in your thoroughfare 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.760 plan or any other city that we're going through within the study area those roadways will 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:31.240 be assumed as being fully built let's say by 2045 or 2050 also improvements to FM 428 00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:34.760 which is the best east west corridor that we have in this part of the county will also 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:43.240 be expanded to at least a six lane arterial as part of that no build analysis and then 00:42:43.240 --> 00:42:46.760 you know there will be modifications as we go forward there'll be some tweaking to what 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:53.920 you've seen already on the screen. So how do we come up with four we divided the project 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:57.760 into the west sub area the central sub area and the east sub area and the central sub 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:03.880 area is dominated by the green belt that runs between the two lakes. Highly sensitive environmentally 00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:07.760 there's a bunch of stuff we'll go over in a minute but there's a lot of stuff that really 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.080 dictated that the all the alignments needed to run on the existing FM 428 alignment through 00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:18.560 that area. So what you see is then the west segment has kind of an A and a B you see some 00:43:18.560 --> 00:43:22.280 A1's B1's and B2's and that kind of stuff those are just some other alternatives that 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:26.000 we're studying those will be hopefully eliminated here in the next few months as we go in and 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:32.120 do what we call a micro study of those particular areas and then of course you see D and E there 00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:40.280 on the east sub area. So these four alternatives so the good news is that we kept kind of the 00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:46.360 red and the blue we kept those colors consistent with what you had seen before on the previous 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:53.040 slide right. So we call it now a red alternative ACD that just means segment number by you 00:43:53.040 --> 00:43:57.680 know left middle right. So everything you see on the red is basically a red alignment 00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:02.000 you had seen before but now it's called the red alternative. The blue you know subsequently 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.680 is the same thing blue alternative equals the blue alignment. The purple is basically 00:44:06.680 --> 00:44:14.720 red to the west and blue to the east and the gold is blue to the west and red to the east. 00:44:14.720 --> 00:44:19.880 So those are the four alternatives that we're carrying through the EIS process. There's 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:24.080 a lot of stuff that we have to study I don't want to go over all of this. This is just 00:44:24.080 --> 00:44:28.560 highly detailed. We are in the middle right now of out we're out in the field right now 00:44:28.560 --> 00:44:33.000 and you may be hearing from some of your constituents you may even been you know I don't know where 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:37.000 everybody lives but you may have heard from some of your constituents we've gone out and 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.920 done what we call a right of entry process where we've requested entry into property 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:46.520 so that we can go out and do all this environmental study in the field you know and determine 00:44:46.520 --> 00:44:51.240 what kind of impacts this project can have to the environment. And you can see just how 00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:58.920 many different elements we have to address as part of this process. So we will also do 00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:05.520 more detailed design on those four alternatives including things like right away typical sections, 00:45:05.520 --> 00:45:12.160 ramp locations and interchanges, the constructability, cost, drainage, all of those things bike and 00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:17.920 pet are all included in the analysis that we've been doing for the schematic design. 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:23.740 Gives you a typical section here this is ideally we have a 500 foot right of way. This matches 00:45:23.740 --> 00:45:28.660 up with the other outer loops that are proceeding along in other counties. You can see it's 00:45:28.660 --> 00:45:32.040 full frontage road continuous frontage roads on the outside those two lanes you see on 00:45:32.040 --> 00:45:36.840 the outside and then right now the feasibility is indicating that we probably need to have 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:41.840 a six lane freeway running through the middle over time not day one but over time as things 00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:46.180 develop out there we'll need to include those main lanes at some point in time. You'll have 00:45:46.180 --> 00:45:50.020 you know interchanges every so often just like you're used to ramping that goes you 00:45:50.020 --> 00:45:53.700 know through all this just like you would any other kind of freeway section and of course 00:45:53.700 --> 00:45:59.960 we are including shared use paths on both side of the project and we don't see this 00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:04.560 happening like I said overnight so there is a phasing that we are you know guessing will 00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:08.180 happen on this project at least that's what the traffic numbers are projecting so we start 00:46:08.180 --> 00:46:12.780 out with one frontage road make it two lanes but two way build the other frontage road 00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:18.920 make them both one way and then come in and build the main lanes after that. This is that 00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:23.720 critical area I was telling you about at the greenbelt there's just about it I don't know 00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:28.560 I guess it's missing a kitchen sink but everything else is in this area we have in yellow is 00:46:28.560 --> 00:46:34.920 federal federal conservation easements highly protected land through that process we have 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:39.280 core owned land and kind of the red color you see there we have the historic bridge 00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:44.460 that's out there along FM 428 we have Ray Roberts late state park greenbelt trails which 00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:49.880 is considered a park and we also have a core flowage easement there on the left in that 00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:55.520 kind of cyan color and we also have regulatory floodways and other floodplains we have to 00:46:55.520 --> 00:47:02.320 deal so right now the existing right of way through this area varies but minimally it's 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:05.680 a hundred and forty five feet and you're going to see a typical section here that try to 00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:11.780 you know seize what we see how we can accommodate this freeway through that area so this shows 00:47:11.780 --> 00:47:16.440 you what we call we have two options here that's called the stacked and the compressed 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.520 options to get across the M fork so the typical section I showed you before is kind of everywhere 00:47:21.520 --> 00:47:26.860 outside of this area but for this three to five thousand feet across the M fork we're 00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:31.320 looking at two different options the one on the top is a stacked option it puts the front 00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.940 edge roads on the bottom and the main lanes on the top parallel to each other running 00:47:34.940 --> 00:47:42.440 into the page the idea there is that it tries to stay within the textile right away and 00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:48.080 we are really working hard to have zero impact to those conservation easements we might impact 00:47:48.080 --> 00:47:54.520 some core owned land but right now we're anticipating no impact to the conservation easements this 00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:59.240 requires us to relocate the historic bridge probably to the north on core owned land through 00:47:59.240 --> 00:48:04.640 that area and reconnected to the trail system as part of that project the compressed option 00:48:04.640 --> 00:48:08.640 is basically the same thing you saw before where we're keeping the main lanes and the 00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:12.720 median between the main lanes basically the same but we're pushing in the frontage roads 00:48:12.720 --> 00:48:17.520 making it tighter in between those so that we can go from you know like a 500 foot right 00:48:17.520 --> 00:48:21.920 away to a 385 foot right away the good news on that one is that we're able to keep the 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:29.120 bridge at its current location this just shows you what some of the interchanges that we're 00:48:29.120 --> 00:48:32.760 proposing on the project so the you know these will be grade separations where the main lane 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.920 goes over or under the cross street they'll be fully ramp served of course we'll have 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.720 multi-level interchanges along at 35 and also at the Dallas North Tollway we also have two 00:48:43.720 --> 00:48:49.960 other very significant corridors us 377 and then also we're 428 branches off and runs 00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:55.880 in a southwest direction towards loop 288 that's also going to be a very very important 00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:01.920 interchange for the region this shows you the entire project development process the dark 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.880 blue we've already done the green is where we're at then next is the pre-construction 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:10.600 that's where you get into final design John has already covered a lot of that's where 00:49:10.600 --> 00:49:16.760 we do final design and then we go into construction the corridor preservation though process has 00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:21.080 already started and what we want to be sure that we're doing is we're not blocking the 00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:24.920 corridor with development so we're communicating a lot with the cities we're communicating 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:29.200 a lot with developers in order to try to you know stave off anything like that that may 00:49:29.200 --> 00:49:36.040 take place we also have a regional land banking opportunity if we need to where we may be 00:49:36.040 --> 00:49:40.760 able to purchase some of the land to prevent it from you know becoming homes that would 00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:46.680 be impacted by the corridor this just shows you kind of a more detailed schedule we've 00:49:46.680 --> 00:49:49.600 already kind of gone through some of this thing you know right there in the middle is 00:49:49.600 --> 00:49:55.640 where we're at and then our next round of meetings will be probably late summer of 2025 00:49:55.640 --> 00:49:59.300 and those public meetings I described and then we'll have the public hearing either 00:49:59.300 --> 00:50:07.880 late 2025 or early 2026 that's where the identified preferred alternative will be provided and 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:12.600 then we have about you know just depends anywhere from four to six months to get the final EIS 00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:19.040 and record decision which should be done by mid 2026 so I invite everybody to join us 00:50:19.040 --> 00:50:23.520 tonight at 530 if you want to you'll you'll hear some of this but you'll also get to look 00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:28.840 at the maps in more detail all of this is available on Denton County outer loop.com 00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:34.360 including this presentation and everything else and then of course you know so you can 00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:39.220 also watch tonight I mean you can also participate virtually as well so a lot of opportunities 00:50:39.220 --> 00:50:45.360 to participate and now let's go to questions because I know that's where you guys want 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:46.360 to get. 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:56.600 Thank you so I'll pick up the question that John punted earlier and for the Mile and Rector 00:50:56.600 --> 00:51:03.480 alignments do we know that where the there's multiple stakeholders out there for the rodeo 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:09.160 and the gateway projects coming into Denton you've got the two different alignments and 00:51:09.160 --> 00:51:15.000 it impacts what John talked about depending on how we do these alignments and exactly 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.420 where the county properties and the rodeo properties are going to go do we have any 00:51:19.420 --> 00:51:21.240 clarity on any of that? 00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:26.080 So we've been doing a lot of coordination with the county on that so we are aware of 00:51:26.080 --> 00:51:31.200 the properties to the west and everything that's you know attempted to be done on that 00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:36.120 I think we've been in really close coordination on that front right now we're trying to do 00:51:36.120 --> 00:51:42.400 something so that the I-35 plans can accommodate what we envision in this area I mean everything 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.200 on the on the west side that the county only I would say is very very preliminary right 00:51:46.200 --> 00:51:51.600 now but it is an economic development opportunity so it's important that we incorporate that 00:51:51.600 --> 00:51:55.840 into our study you know this isn't all about just the natural environment it's also about 00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:00.000 the human environment as well right so we want to make sure that we are advancing the 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.400 you know economics in the area as much as we can as well so I feel and John you can 00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:09.440 you can step in here but I feel very comfortable that we're highly coordinated in that area. 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:18.920 So you can imagine Judge Eads has had us in his office multiple times on this but originally 00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:23.480 this is the Milam Road on the west side and this is the Milam Road on the north side we 00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:31.760 were trying to trying to find a way to get to this roadway because it continues on past 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:38.400 to 156 but the county is subsequently bought both land north and south of the Milam Road 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:44.200 on the on the west side and so basically if you just kind of look at lay out the property 00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:48.280 not what they're going to do with it but just the property itself there's a property line 00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:53.680 right here with the land to the north and the county to the south so we're we're looking 00:52:53.680 --> 00:53:00.400 at being able to hit where Tech Start originally planned on having the box for the outer loop 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:05.200 because this project was cleared before this project did so they had to assume the outer 00:53:05.200 --> 00:53:10.560 loop would be at the east side where Milam Road hits. 00:53:10.560 --> 00:53:15.720 We did look at coming down and tying into the Milam Road here states that they would 00:53:15.720 --> 00:53:20.680 agree to extend that bridge another thousand fifteen hundred feet so we'd have this big 00:53:20.680 --> 00:53:26.400 huge under structure so we could hit where we need but once the county started buying 00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:32.280 land in the north it made it look like it's best to come at it at what was originally 00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:37.920 proposed and then come across and get back down to Milam Road on their development side 00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:45.360 and that reduces that thousand feet where we need probably 300 300 so it reduces the 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:52.600 cost on the 35 jobs we keep it so we really are pushing from a locally preferred alternative 00:53:52.600 --> 00:53:56.800 for the county and which is consistent with your third floor plan to have it hit Milam 00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:03.480 Road on the east side 35 at that location okay go straight across John are they still 00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:14.800 trying to let in April I'm sorry can I don't have to sell that again do I yes oh do I oh 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:25.320 yes I do oh my okay so short version is the county's development on the west side as far 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:31.400 as we know there's a property line that's adjacent to or contiguous with the the Milam 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.080 on the east side so we're going to put we're recommending that a alternative be included 00:54:37.080 --> 00:54:41.720 which was what's on your third floor plan and what the county wants for their development 00:54:41.720 --> 00:54:46.040 and then we'll tie into Milam on the east side and that reduces the cost of the bridge 00:54:46.040 --> 00:54:54.560 structure at that location and takes us so they agree to that additional cost so the 00:54:54.560 --> 00:55:00.320 last question on this before I go to my other questions and that is it's sounding like y'all 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:07.120 are focusing on Milam rather than Rector in terms of the the big alignment so when you 00:55:07.120 --> 00:55:13.960 say focus we aren't like Tony said we're carrying both of these alignments through the entire 00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:20.320 lifecycle of the CIS but we also have to if we're going to if mom's going to be an option 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:24.560 we had to pick which Milan we were going to do so so you'll see there's other areas where 00:55:24.560 --> 00:55:30.640 there's some tweaking that we do over you know east of Aubrey and those are those are 00:55:30.640 --> 00:55:34.200 get played out for the both the red and the blue alternatives going through that long 00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:44.720 list of things that Tony showed you so there are two major alternatives with subset tweaks 00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:49.680 that you could put on either side okay and he didn't say it the reason we're going across 00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:54.080 in that one location across the green belt is he won't say it but I'm saying that the 00:55:54.080 --> 00:56:00.960 Corps told us if we go anywhere other than 428 it'll cost us dearly and which is already 00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:04.320 too expensive and nobody wants us to impact the green belt anyway so we're going where 00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.600 they tell us so so you'll see some of those alignments earlier went up on the bridge on 00:56:08.600 --> 00:56:16.760 the dam a 455 with courses you're not going to go on my damn damn and and we had to go 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:25.320 at 428 so that's why they tweak down the middle have you been to the damn store following 00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:35.080 up on on on this damn conversation no for quarter C there that you know since you live 00:56:35.080 --> 00:56:46.640 there I know that there's I got just a couple questions in this area I know that you you 00:56:46.640 --> 00:56:51.640 sort of led with there's a lot of development in even even within quarter C on the on the 00:56:51.640 --> 00:56:57.840 peripheries of the even though most of it is core land and and conservation land and 00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:05.480 I know one of the the new players in that would is that Texas Parks and Wildlife is 00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:14.040 thinking about millennial fund acquisition there and that was submitted by Senator Parker 00:57:14.040 --> 00:57:25.760 as a project and so I'm curious how all these stakeholders if everybody is doing an EIS 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:32.720 or an EIS equivalent study how do you reconcile the outer loops EIS with the Texas Parks and 00:57:32.720 --> 00:57:41.280 Wildlife's EIS with the with the developer you know NPCs EIS is that they are all doing 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:47.880 because they're they all want quarter C and they're all going to write an EIS that puts 00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:53.400 them in the best light let's be honest so how do we reconcile because there's only one 00:57:53.400 --> 00:58:00.680 environment and they're all putting conflicting demands on that so one of the things that 00:58:00.680 --> 00:58:06.480 we did on this project was that we requested and received approval of to incorporate the 00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:11.560 Corps of Engineers as a cooperating agency so that means that they're actually going 00:58:11.560 --> 00:58:16.920 step-by-step with us through this entire project which is a different level than a participating 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:21.360 agency so most of the other agencies will be participating that just means they'll review 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:26.800 our documents and approve them accordingly we did also request that Texas Parks and Wildlife 00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:32.400 be one of those cooperating agencies just for the reasons you described they they declined 00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:38.400 that they just feel like they have enough MOUs with text dot or memorandums of understanding 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:43.480 with text dot in order to go through this process but they're definitely one of the 00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:48.840 agencies that we are coordinating with all the time and then the other one that did also 00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:53.920 move up into a cooperating agency is a Texas Historic Commission because of the historic 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:58.120 bridge in this area so there is a lot going on in this area and that's that's what Madeline 00:58:58.120 --> 00:59:03.080 and I work on a lot I mean we these public meetings are also very helpful we gain a lot 00:59:03.080 --> 00:59:07.480 of information from that but we're also working with your staff also to learn about these 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.680 types of things that are going on and and every time we have a meeting we always learn 00:59:10.680 --> 00:59:15.920 something new and we're just incorporating those the best we can but it will be the responsibility 00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:20.840 of these agencies that are participating with us for them to alert us to the same thing 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:24.760 you know things you just described you know how are we going to keep from doing this and 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:29.080 then go uh-oh we completely forgot about or we completely missed this thing over here 00:59:29.080 --> 00:59:33.280 and you know that's it's just part of the process that we we count on that to happen 00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:40.760 okay well what I'm going to do is you're done thank you very much I am going to ask if there's 00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:46.120 anyone else that has any questions in this regard we'll keep it nice and tight because 00:59:46.120 --> 00:59:50.520 we're watching our time I'll just say that we were under time on the last item so if 00:59:50.520 --> 00:59:58.240 we could get a little extra time here madam chair for the reminder my first question is 00:59:58.240 --> 01:00:06.920 just what's the deadline for comments on this November 29th yeah November 29th is the deadline 01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:12.640 for the scoping meetings that we're currently in all right excellent thank you um my second 01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:18.280 is more of a comment just so I'm looking at this and it says between 2015 and 2021 more 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:23.880 than 20,000 acres of land were already developed in Denton County and there's the map with 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:29.360 all of these parcels of land here I gotta say I'm really preferential to the no build 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:34.880 option here because you know looking at all of this land that's being urbanized we know 01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:41.680 that there's you know a ton of environmental value to not urbanizing all of your you know 01:00:41.680 --> 01:00:45.720 rural areas looking at like California where they're getting struck with massive wildfires 01:00:45.720 --> 01:00:52.360 and whatnot and I'm looking forward at our next presentation which has some statistics 01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:57.960 Denton's smog is now approaching the severe category twice the rate of lung disease in 01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:03.240 children I just have to say that for all that my opinion is worth which I know is not much 01:01:03.240 --> 01:01:08.360 to tax dot I would be in favor of the no build option I think I need to point out a couple 01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:15.000 of things is those that heat map you see those are people that have invested property rights 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:21.360 so that development is going to occur because a lot of it's unincorporated and the legislature 01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:28.440 has not given the counties a much authority to handle unincorporated development and so 01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:36.720 when we did our original study early on between 380 the outer road 377 and the toll road and 01:01:36.720 --> 01:01:41.480 10 years will be 90,000 people living there without doing a single thing to this road 01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:47.280 because our road won't be there so what we're suggesting to you is is that the way you reduce 01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:54.800 that load because vehicles that travel at a efficient rate of speed emit less pollution 01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:59.640 than those that run idle so what you want to do is reduce congestion as much as you 01:01:59.640 --> 01:02:06.780 can and keep the traffic flowing so if you saw the other map where the roads are red 01:02:06.780 --> 01:02:12.520 without the outer loop all those roads will go underwater and those people will be congested 01:02:12.520 --> 01:02:16.960 on streets that weren't meant for them to be there so we get this we understand but 01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:22.360 that's why we chose we suggested to the state and they agreed that we're doing this document 01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:26.920 at the highest level of environmental clearance possible which also includes since we're in 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:31.720 a non-attainment area conformity issues that we have to deal with so that what we do has 01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:39.820 to reduce the overall pollution in the region not increase it and I'm just immensely skeptical 01:02:39.820 --> 01:02:44.200 of that I think you know that would have been the logic for why 635 was built earlier or 01:02:44.200 --> 01:02:48.320 all of these other loop roads that we can see across the county that then in 20 years 01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:54.080 do become congested themselves and you know kind of incent development around them and 01:02:54.080 --> 01:02:58.600 then you know the second the second point I want to make to you is I've been around 01:02:58.600 --> 01:03:04.000 for 30 plus years and what got me into this business was in 1988 when Denton County was 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:09.280 brought in to the non-attainment scenario and I've been I've been tracking this and 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:19.760 because it impacts transportation for that 30 years in 20 it was 1996 the first air quality 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:25.680 standard was 12 parts per billion we're at like seven right now so we're going down in 01:03:25.680 --> 01:03:29.360 a total amount of pollution but we're not getting there fast enough and that's why you 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:34.080 go from moderate to severe to extreme not because the air is getting dirtier it's because 01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:38.820 you're not getting there fast enough so I'll get you some information but what the regions 01:03:38.820 --> 01:03:42.680 do it is pretty impressive. 01:03:42.680 --> 01:03:43.680 Anyone else? 01:03:43.680 --> 01:03:44.680 Oh I'm sorry. 01:03:44.680 --> 01:03:45.680 I'm done. 01:03:45.680 --> 01:03:46.680 Okay. 01:03:46.680 --> 01:03:47.680 Anything? 01:03:47.680 --> 01:03:48.680 Yes. 01:03:48.680 --> 01:03:58.400 I have a question about the the reason for the road so one of them was that the crash 01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:04.660 rates in the region I believe are higher than the statewide average can you explain how 01:04:04.660 --> 01:04:07.540 adding another high-speed road will reduce crashes? 01:04:07.540 --> 01:04:15.720 Yeah actually you know so the one of the safest facilities that we have for carrying traffic 01:04:15.720 --> 01:04:21.560 is a freeway mainly because you how you handle crossing traffic and everything else right 01:04:21.560 --> 01:04:27.120 we don't allow people to cross the roadways so you are going over or under those cross 01:04:27.120 --> 01:04:31.200 streets through ramping and everything else and so that just generally creates a safer 01:04:31.200 --> 01:04:35.720 system now it's higher speed and so you know you definitely have to worry about the severity 01:04:35.720 --> 01:04:40.480 of those elements as you go up when you see the our alignments you'll notice that horizontally 01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:44.160 they're kind of what I call lazy alignments the curves are really long and those kind 01:04:44.160 --> 01:04:49.400 of things that's another element that we try to do in order to increase the safety of those 01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:55.160 roadways but yes I mean generally the at-grade intersection is the one of the biggest problem 01:04:55.160 --> 01:05:01.720 areas that we have as far as crashes and I'll yeah I'll go ahead and I think did 01:05:01.720 --> 01:05:06.880 that answer your question I'm sorry yeah and I'll follow up a little so I-35 is on that 01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:11.320 heat map there that is a limited access freeway so how will this one be different because 01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:16.320 I know I-35 is one of our top locations of deaths also in traffic crashes in Denton the 01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:21.160 other one is 35 or sorry not 35 380 which of course is you know at great and all that 01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:27.880 and so how will this be different than 35 so any facility that you over you know over 01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:33.680 use or you put too much load on it it will then its safety will go down its its crashes 01:05:33.680 --> 01:05:38.600 will increase over that time frame so right now John just described earlier about the 01:05:38.600 --> 01:05:44.180 reconstruction that will take place to the 35 corridor safety is part of that but more 01:05:44.180 --> 01:05:47.720 you know it's a congestion deal I guess what I'm trying to say so when you have a free 01:05:47.720 --> 01:05:51.960 flow situation you wouldn't have a lot of these type of incidents as you see I mean 01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:56.440 even driving up here from Flower Mound to come to this meeting today you know there 01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:01.760 were several times where we were slowing down mainly due to congestion and you know I don't 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:06.240 really feel like we were traveling during the peak hours at all so 35 is definitely 01:06:06.240 --> 01:06:12.520 stressed it's probably one of the most stress corridors we have in the region and that stress 01:06:12.520 --> 01:06:18.320 creates crashes right and so building off that a little bit and sort of building off 01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:26.080 what a committee member Bray said so so we anticipate development coming in along this 01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:34.720 new roadway and some of its already planned right folks are planning on it so do we anticipate 01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:40.640 that building this roadway will increase the speed or the likelihood those developments 01:06:40.640 --> 01:06:45.920 come online or in other words if we if we didn't build it would would those things come 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:49.480 online a little slower because you know maybe they're like oh people won't want to move 01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:56.880 out there because it takes too long to get places right so two things what we noticed 01:06:56.880 --> 01:07:02.520 region-wide is is after COVID you had this diaspora from the center right people they're 01:07:02.520 --> 01:07:10.320 going out they're going further away telecommuting is helping that and in the 2050 mobility all 01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:14.920 the perimeter counties around Dallas and Tarrant County are significantly increasing in population 01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:20.720 right now we're at a little over a million and Collin County is a little bit more than 01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:30.080 that by 2050 without if you take out the outer loop the only thing happens is the congestion 01:07:30.080 --> 01:07:36.040 gets worse if the outer loops there it reduces the congestion but by 2050 we're going to 01:07:36.040 --> 01:07:40.720 outstrip Collin County and population and primarily because we have the two interstates 01:07:40.720 --> 01:07:47.160 35 E&W coming right through the heart of our county so the growth is coming regardless 01:07:47.160 --> 01:07:52.240 of what you do if we don't build the roads are you going to do is end up ruining quality 01:07:52.240 --> 01:08:02.400 alive I'm so maybe I don't have a continued question based on that but I guess my concern 01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:06.200 is that we'll build the roadway and it will become over capacity again because of all 01:08:06.200 --> 01:08:10.760 of the development that will come online and then we'll feel like we're at square one again 01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:17.080 to some degree so I guess that's just a concern that maybe doesn't have an answer but it kind 01:08:17.080 --> 01:08:20.720 of does I mean there's there's things that we try to do so you know we talked about the 01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:26.100 500 foot corridor on that deal so that's a pretty healthy right away section you'll notice 01:08:26.100 --> 01:08:32.440 in this section that we have a fairly large gap between the main lanes in each direction 01:08:32.440 --> 01:08:38.000 and that's so that we can expand the facility as we need to you know we don't know we can 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:42.880 project traffic based on everything we understand today and we've done a pretty decent job of 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:47.280 that particularly in this region over the years but you know we have things that are 01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:51.120 coming online with automated vehicles electric vehicles and other types of things they're 01:08:51.120 --> 01:08:55.200 a little more less certain about what we're going to do so we didn't want to sit there 01:08:55.200 --> 01:09:01.000 and remove this space in the middle so that we just had that flexibility to flex with 01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:07.600 what might happen in in that you know as as as this region grows and what traffic becomes 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:13.800 as more innovation and automation takes place so right now we're just trying to build in 01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:18.040 additional capacity to the system so one of the things I wanted to point out real quick 01:09:18.040 --> 01:09:23.640 because I know we're over time but this is a 23 mile long dam in this area so what we're 01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:27.840 also doing is partnering with the Corps of Engineers on what's called a transportation 01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:34.780 stormwater initiative where we're going to take the outer loop and and construct it or 01:09:34.780 --> 01:09:41.440 allow it to be developed in a way where we go further up the the waterways that we impact 01:09:41.440 --> 01:09:47.700 look at taking more of that property in as a floodplain and then impounding the water 01:09:47.700 --> 01:09:53.840 whether it's detention retention have an aesthetic look to it but then take that water and find 01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:59.280 best management practices to recharge the aquifer instead of the just let it floated 01:09:59.280 --> 01:10:02.720 because they don't want it to go on through Dallas down the Trinity River so they wanted 01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:07.360 us to just detain detain it and make it go slower and the county says look if we're going 01:10:07.360 --> 01:10:12.240 to put land under water we're going to use it to recharge aquifer so there's a whole 01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:17.240 lot of environmental issues that we're going to be addressing with this road not just not 01:10:17.240 --> 01:10:27.800 just the traveling public okay thank you thank you thank you we have just the weird we're 01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:33.680 out of time council member Joe Holland wanted to ask a question are y'all gonna be around 01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:38.880 no no no i'm gonna i want to wait in interest of time if you're gonna be around you're gonna 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:43.760 be around okay all right thank you all for being around so Joe can get his question answered 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:51.240 but we are definitely going to move forward i had a question but i'm just gonna i'll wait 01:10:51.240 --> 01:10:59.000 around and ask that question later okay so we're going to move on to mc-24-036 receive 01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:06.320 a report and hold a discussion regarding lowering barriers to bike racks with a focus on infield 01:11:06.320 --> 01:11:19.640 locations this is going to be good bike racks exciting biking cycling cycling and biking 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:26.000 the same thing cycling cycling and biking is that the same thing biking involves a motorcycle 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:31.440 oh my yeah that's why i kind of stay with cycling i didn't even know bicycling oh bicycling 01:11:31.440 --> 01:11:40.040 well yeah that's okay or tricycle yeah anyway okay great scott okay transportation services 01:11:40.040 --> 01:11:47.360 city of denton also as i introduced myself before yeah a person that has lived many places 01:11:47.360 --> 01:11:52.560 some of which chased after the car some of which did not chase after the car and you 01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:58.680 know what the quality of life was better than the ones that didn't chase after the car okay 01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:13.080 okay the city does a great job with requiring bike racks on new development that's why we're 01:12:13.080 --> 01:12:22.840 focusing on infield development because that is the more difficult thing to do i'm going 01:12:22.840 --> 01:12:33.120 to kind of recap first on a june presentation that i gave with some recommendations take 01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:39.720 a little deeper look at two of those aspects talk about strategy and some more specific 01:12:39.720 --> 01:12:48.800 recommendations open it up for q a as far as connection to city goals and strategies 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:59.280 probably the most one that i enjoy is strategy 8.17 in the mobility commit our mobility plan 01:12:59.280 --> 01:13:08.600 provide bike parking at public facilities as you know we all know biking have can have 01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:20.360 big benefits also part of the recap is uh we recommended a pilot using these two techniques 01:13:20.360 --> 01:13:27.440 that are presented in june and you will recognize those and we are going to go deeper especially 01:13:27.440 --> 01:13:38.480 into number one because that's the one we can do first another deeper look is air quality 01:13:38.480 --> 01:13:51.760 dentin as part of the dfw region now has uh severe smog air quality that is the main issue 01:13:51.760 --> 01:14:04.160 that the region is dealing with that means damaged lungs which are prone to infection 01:14:04.160 --> 01:14:18.320 aggravated disease such as asthma as uh christine bray indicated our children have twice the 01:14:18.320 --> 01:14:28.000 lung disease as people outside of the rest of the nation that's from the cog air quality 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:38.720 report all those things and our federal funding is threatened in 27 if we don't correct the 01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:48.280 situation or have a path to that and are those folks that come in that want to come in they 01:14:48.280 --> 01:15:02.400 want their employees to be healthy and they want to be proud of it just like freight manufacturer 01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:09.000 sorry it's escaping me peter built peter built so they brag that they're an environmental 01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:19.160 leader okay it's important to them um our task is to eliminate cold starts what is a 01:15:19.160 --> 01:15:28.040 cold start a cold start is when you start your car the 60 seconds between if you drive 01:15:28.040 --> 01:15:40.320 a standard car six within turning that ignition and about 60 seconds on a typical trip 95% 01:15:40.320 --> 01:15:48.960 of the pollutants that cause smog our main issue will be emitted in those 60 seconds 01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:56.920 until your catalytic converter warms up so that curve over there there's four types of 01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:06.080 vehicles most are zero and one there's some of the others out there too yeah you can see 01:16:06.080 --> 01:16:17.560 the curve the the y-axis is your is the emissions that cause smog the bottom is the seconds 01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:23.040 that the vehicles ran if it had been set for a while right repeated starts don't do the 01:16:23.040 --> 01:16:35.140 same thing okay so reducing auto idling does not do a lot in that situation but if you 01:16:35.140 --> 01:16:42.700 can get the person to bike walk they have a zero emission vehicle that's your ticket 01:16:42.700 --> 01:16:51.800 no cold starts okay so by my point is biking has outside benefits outsized benefits because 01:16:51.800 --> 01:17:00.840 it eliminates that okay and you add to that if we could make this happen in your let's 01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:13.480 imagine 20 if if 28% of all trips they're less than one mile less than about 60 seconds 01:17:13.480 --> 01:17:19.920 or whatever if that could happen that'd be a great great start if they could bike or 01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:27.680 walk and then six fifty two percent that's that's even better that would be great it 01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:32.360 may not happen that we they actually can get them bike and walk but we've got to give them 01:17:32.360 --> 01:17:45.360 the facilities to do it okay whoops no I am okay so these are pictures from my hometown 01:17:45.360 --> 01:17:53.320 where we talked about a pilot and that we were wanted to use unutilized space these 01:17:53.320 --> 01:17:59.440 are pictures of how they use that unutilized space and here's a little graphic that kind 01:17:59.440 --> 01:18:05.760 of shows that at corners you'll notice in a lot of places they've painted the curb red 01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:11.600 because they don't want people to park there right because this blue vehicle needs to be 01:18:11.600 --> 01:18:20.840 able to see the white vehicle that's coming so they got to have the corner clear for vision 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:28.080 well if you put bike racks in there they do not obstruct that vision they're good they're 01:18:28.080 --> 01:18:35.880 low profile enough they're they're transparent enough okay so they said hey that is space 01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:45.880 for us and that's what they did and we could do the same thing so I got a strategy over 01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:53.960 here and we'll go through them pretty quickly because I've taken a lot of time but I think 01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:58.560 you'll get more out of looking at the specific recommendation this being probably the primary 01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:08.280 one because it is the first so the recommendation is to do a big jump focusing a lot of improvements 01:19:08.280 --> 01:19:16.040 in a small area and I can't think of one that's better than the area around the the square 01:19:16.040 --> 01:19:23.400 because we don't want people biking on the sidewalks and the square we don't allow that 01:19:23.400 --> 01:19:33.400 so let's focus on that area is the thought okay and so we can use you'll recognize this 01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:41.040 picture from the last meeting these are little sleds wood whatever we could do this even 01:19:41.040 --> 01:19:49.160 temporary right painted that area put the sleds in or we could do a permanent you know 01:19:49.160 --> 01:19:58.460 depends on your feelings and what the initial community intake would be but put them out 01:19:58.460 --> 01:20:07.760 there show that it can be piloted show that it can be done after that and that could take 01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:13.720 a while so we can go into way more detail and these other steps of the strategy but 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:19.920 ultimately we've got to simplify this so that people can do infill bike racks and we need 01:20:19.920 --> 01:20:29.100 to not only permit it but condense it down to something that's really digestible digestible 01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:36.800 means financial no no it means so that a person reading it can be like in a brochure format 01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:43.460 so they can understand it and say yeah that's how I do it not plan planner or engineer lingo 01:20:43.460 --> 01:20:54.640 right then you bring you know like like the Chamber of Commerce in others too and you 01:20:54.640 --> 01:21:03.580 praise them you know we've talked about bike friendly designations so together starting 01:21:03.580 --> 01:21:15.080 with this I think we're be well on our way to to making to eliminating the barriers is 01:21:15.080 --> 01:21:24.160 that the presentation that is it well thank you so much that was a very informative very 01:21:24.160 --> 01:21:28.280 interesting presentation thank you I'm going to take the privilege of saying something 01:21:28.280 --> 01:21:38.160 first get my time in let's go back to the the front part of that I want to see your 01:21:38.160 --> 01:21:45.240 your hometown that hometown picture that right there I'm really really into this because 01:21:45.240 --> 01:21:52.280 I think that I would I would approve something like this for us to to try I think it's very 01:21:52.280 --> 01:21:58.600 interesting and again I've just come from Denver mm-hmm and I was really studying those 01:21:58.600 --> 01:22:04.600 streets this time like really getting into it and I saw some of some of this going on 01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:10.000 in their downtown area where they were taking that very seriously they were doing that construction 01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:18.240 work to push those to push this type of thing and I thought it was interesting to see would 01:22:18.240 --> 01:22:25.680 the would you can you envision where the bike racks are located would the street be painted 01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:32.560 I mean would it be something that yeah very significant yeah one of the principles yes 01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:38.960 so okay good because I don't see that on there I see the street oh and we still have ballots 01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:49.600 at the top to the left no no I'm over here on the other pictures oh yeah it's mostly 01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:54.320 white yeah you know I propose something I would propose something a little better than 01:22:54.320 --> 01:23:02.000 that that one's you know got sons possessed but I was just you know kind of thinking maybe 01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:08.440 it could be stand out with some type of color on the street now what about motorcycles I 01:23:08.440 --> 01:23:14.160 mean our motorcycles start towards the end of the street along with the bikes on they 01:23:14.160 --> 01:23:22.680 certainly could be but I don't think I think the needs are more for I mean bike racks aren't 01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:28.160 something motorcycles use they need the space granted alright those are the only two questions 01:23:28.160 --> 01:23:37.720 that I have let's start with this brain first I love this appreciate it thank you one one 01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:42.320 concern that I keep coming back to which kind of interacts with this and a way that people 01:23:42.320 --> 01:23:45.960 are just violating the law they're using these corner spaces that aren't you know they're 01:23:45.960 --> 01:23:49.760 marked off as don't park here but they get used as pick up spaces for like Uber Eats 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:56.240 or stuff so obviously that you know that it's against the law but I just want to echo my 01:23:56.240 --> 01:24:00.220 previous comments on we should do something about parking and loading for for these types 01:24:00.220 --> 01:24:07.720 of things also I think there's opportunities outside of our kind of traditional walkable 01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:12.800 areas like fry Street is obviously a good fit for this that I'd like to see pursued 01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:20.680 in the future I go to that queue up on up by by Bonnie Bray in 380 and I just bring 01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:28.200 my bike into their you know their lobby because I'm like there's there's no parking here so 01:24:28.200 --> 01:24:35.380 I think that there's other typologies of like areas that could use this where there's there's 01:24:35.380 --> 01:24:40.200 not actually street parking near that DAC you to take for this purpose so just just 01:24:40.200 --> 01:24:46.000 something that you know like I said very excited about this but other things in the future 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:52.280 as well and then to my council members you know roads are very expensive this is very 01:24:52.280 --> 01:25:01.400 cheap we could we could allocate some funding to this all right thank you. 01:25:01.400 --> 01:25:08.360 You know yeah on bridging with that the taking a look at these parking lots and making sure 01:25:08.360 --> 01:25:13.640 that whenever we in the future when we're building out additional what are those store 01:25:13.640 --> 01:25:21.120 fronts at least for sure having spaces for bikes like like they do motorcycles have little 01:25:21.120 --> 01:25:29.000 motorcycle spaces but it'd be need to have a real genuine set of parking spaces for bikes 01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:35.040 so we won't have to take our bikes inside of the facilities to keep them from you know 01:25:35.040 --> 01:25:43.160 being taken or whatever thank you thank you for that yes ma'am thank you chair thank you 01:25:43.160 --> 01:25:48.480 for this presentation Greg appreciate it I have three comments and a question the first 01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:53.460 comment is I would definitely like to see us purchase you know just a handful maybe 01:25:53.460 --> 01:25:58.240 of the mobile racks but more the style of the one in front of harvest house is more 01:25:58.240 --> 01:26:02.840 of the inverted you or staple rack as opposed to the wave racks we saw in the photo but 01:26:02.840 --> 01:26:06.160 we do have a really great example of something like this in front of harvest house for anybody 01:26:06.160 --> 01:26:13.760 that wants to go look at it my other comment is sort of echoing what council member committee 01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:21.840 member Bray said of you know also trying to look at how we can provide opportunities 01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:25.880 for businesses especially in strip malls is where I have the biggest problem of not finding 01:26:25.880 --> 01:26:32.520 anything to lock to so seeing if we can look into places like that and how we can increase 01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:37.920 bike parking at existing buildings right and I would also urge us to look at the square 01:26:37.920 --> 01:26:44.240 proper yes you can't bike on the on the sidewalks but I can't remember which corners have bike 01:26:44.240 --> 01:26:49.520 parking in which don't and it has slowly disappeared over time because they've you know reconstructed 01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:54.000 some of the corners and I'm not talking about the hallway crossing before that we reconstructed 01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:57.920 some of the brick looking things and didn't put the bike racks back I've noticed some 01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:03.640 bike parking next to rusty taco has disappeared now so it is slowly disappearing and I struggle 01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:07.440 to remember like where the bike parking is on the square so I would definitely encourage 01:27:07.440 --> 01:27:12.400 us to also look at bike parking on the square itself as well as outside of the square because 01:27:12.400 --> 01:27:17.680 I do kind of struggle to find bike parking outside of the square and then my third comment 01:27:17.680 --> 01:27:25.000 is yes I definitely support on the bike parking standards the written stuff having clear standards 01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:30.520 for bike parking so we we kind of describe it but we don't have any pictures and I feel 01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:34.720 like I'm seeing with new developments that maybe people aren't understanding what it's 01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:38.960 supposed to look like so if we can have some illustrations included I think that might 01:27:38.960 --> 01:27:42.660 help a little bit I mean I've even seen the city put in the wrong kind of bike rack that 01:27:42.660 --> 01:27:47.600 goes against what our standards say so I think having photos might help especially for people 01:27:47.600 --> 01:27:54.200 who are less familiar with these kinds of things and I really like the idea of the brochure 01:27:54.200 --> 01:27:59.100 style instructions so I mean kind of like we did with our development code in 2019 adding 01:27:59.100 --> 01:28:04.640 more visuals to make it easier to understand more digestible as you said and then my question 01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:11.140 is this is probably for future answering not right now but I'm curious what resources staff 01:28:11.140 --> 01:28:16.000 think we would need to implement a pilot project that includes something like purchasing a 01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:21.480 collection of you know maybe staple racks maybe some of those cycle hoops that you've 01:28:21.480 --> 01:28:25.360 given us for the more urbanized areas like the fry street area things like that but also 01:28:25.360 --> 01:28:31.700 some staple racks for those strip malls and then allowing businesses especially small 01:28:31.700 --> 01:28:37.080 businesses to request we install one and then since we're the sense of city's doing it 01:28:37.080 --> 01:28:40.920 hopefully it gets installed correctly with the right kind of rack that way businesses 01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:45.160 existing businesses could opt in not be forced so that's just something I would like for 01:28:45.160 --> 01:28:59.240 us to look at in the future maybe not to answer right now that's all I have I just want to 01:28:59.240 --> 01:29:06.560 make a comment about this I you know the reason the reason we have bike racks is to store 01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:16.440 one's bike and prevent theft right because if it wasn't for the theft aspect you could 01:29:16.440 --> 01:29:24.280 lean your bike against the store window you get any of that yeah also to provide a designated 01:29:24.280 --> 01:29:34.480 spot so it's not okay in the way okay my my concern is shown on slide three the bicycle 01:29:34.480 --> 01:29:44.720 in the middle the u-lock is holding the frame okay and the rear wheel which admittedly are 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:52.200 the most expensive parts of the bike but the front wheel is left vulnerable and that concerns 01:29:52.200 --> 01:29:59.920 me because now you return to your bike and your front wheel has been stolen now the the 01:29:59.920 --> 01:30:07.000 second slide the third slide there that bike is completely protected the front wheel the 01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:13.400 frame and the rear wheel are all tied up with either a u-lock or a cable there's nothing 01:30:13.400 --> 01:30:19.360 to steal on that so so I think I think when we and and the example the and I like the 01:30:19.360 --> 01:30:28.760 I like the concept the the portable thing on slide seven that's that's not given that's 01:30:28.760 --> 01:30:36.200 not given theft much of a nod and it's a shame that we have to consider that but but stealing 01:30:36.200 --> 01:30:43.560 parts off of a bike is is almost as bad as stealing the bike it renders it useless now 01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:47.640 instead of riding home you're gonna have to carry it home I just want to just want to 01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:52.940 mention that something something that could be done that would be easy to to secure the 01:30:52.940 --> 01:30:58.640 three the three most important segments of the bike yeah you will notice that I didn't 01:30:58.640 --> 01:31:09.600 spend a lot of time on the circle lock or whatever cycle hoop because that might take 01:31:09.600 --> 01:31:15.320 some doings especially working with DME or you know whoever to be able to do that but 01:31:15.320 --> 01:31:21.480 I think that the quickest and easiest thing is to focus on this yeah that that's a that's 01:31:21.480 --> 01:31:26.360 a fine that's a fine setup if it's if you're gonna go into a store and come back quickly 01:31:26.360 --> 01:31:30.840 right but if you're gonna go to the mall as you point out you know your bike is gonna 01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:35.600 be a bicycle your bicycle is going to be at one end of the mall and you're gonna be way 01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:40.760 over here that gives the bad guy plenty of time to steal whatever is vulnerable you've 01:31:40.760 --> 01:31:46.680 noticed to wheels left on bike racks yeah it's not the wheel that was locked it was 01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:55.680 the rest of the bike that wasn't right yeah that's all and this is a bike I know coming 01:31:55.680 --> 01:32:02.960 from a bike uh yes sir briefly I'm just gonna I want to reiterate what you're hearing is 01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:09.880 a lot of interest in and support you've got a cyclist the cyclist the cyclist the cyclist 01:32:09.880 --> 01:32:18.400 want to be so that's not surprising and I I just don't know chairs predilection for 01:32:18.400 --> 01:32:26.480 cycling I know how to ride a bike maybe it's unanimous I know how to ride a bike for predilection 01:32:26.480 --> 01:32:34.520 predilection predilection wow what did I just say no I'm just impressed so one of the things 01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:40.520 I wanted I had two quick questions one was sort of a piggybacking off what Commissioner 01:32:40.520 --> 01:32:47.240 Rumer said and that was are there it seems like and I think Councillor Holland alluded 01:32:47.240 --> 01:32:56.120 to it as well there there seems like there's opportunities for us to get buy-in for parking 01:32:56.120 --> 01:33:02.720 at established businesses I think actually Councillor Bray's had a related Commissioner 01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:09.400 Bray had a related so we keep wanting to let you to office for some reason similar thing 01:33:09.400 --> 01:33:20.200 and opportunities to have buy-in from businesses if there was an if there was a mechanism whereby 01:33:20.200 --> 01:33:25.400 you could get a grant if you were a low-income business you know small mom-pa or or if they 01:33:25.400 --> 01:33:32.440 could purchase into our program and dedicate the exact same kind of rack that we're using 01:33:32.440 --> 01:33:40.120 but funded by them for a larger company that would add consistency and and and some scale 01:33:40.120 --> 01:33:47.800 efficiency yes so I encourage us to think about that and and that leads me to my second 01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:56.120 question is and you heard about some destination pathing for this you know versus piloting 01:33:56.120 --> 01:34:04.600 downtown do do we have a concept for how we want to roll out phase phases two through 01:34:04.600 --> 01:34:11.840 whatever in terms of where would we go if this is wildly successful and you're hearing 01:34:11.840 --> 01:34:20.960 a lot of positive energy about downtown where would we want to go next I can we'd have 01:34:20.960 --> 01:34:29.320 to think about that more I do have ideas but I'm probably not well vetted I encourage us 01:34:29.320 --> 01:34:35.640 to do you've heard a lot of retail interest and so I encourage us to do a lot of really 01:34:35.640 --> 01:34:42.640 robust destination pathing so that you get to your slide one or whatever we were talking 01:34:42.640 --> 01:34:49.400 about air quality and cold starts yeah if I can't go from grocery store X to downtown 01:34:49.400 --> 01:34:55.280 Y then I'm not going to use my bike I'm gonna hop in my car yeah I think the the beauty 01:34:55.280 --> 01:35:02.320 of the pilot is to show everybody what can be done and how they could do it themselves 01:35:02.320 --> 01:35:09.920 to right generate excitement but also you have a living brochure but we got to do it 01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:18.360 right but we or thread that needle between doing it perfect and doing it with the constraints 01:35:18.360 --> 01:35:27.280 we have the staff time and finances and such but we think this is a way this is underutilized 01:35:27.280 --> 01:35:36.680 space it's under our control not too hard well thank you very much for your thank you 01:35:36.680 --> 01:35:46.000 very much for your your presentation I'm just very excited for us to see this to fruition 01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:52.040 yeah however that comes about thank you a telephone number please really really I'll 01:35:52.040 --> 01:36:01.760 give you mine I mean yeah five zero three we can provide that to you okay it's being 01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:21.480 broadcast that's what everybody called thank you okay well we're gonna move on to EMC 24-037 01:36:21.480 --> 01:36:38.160 we're gonna get in here and get it done good morning Trevor crane director of capital projects 01:36:38.160 --> 01:36:45.160 so I'll go through just some of the staff memorandum we did provide some responses to 01:36:45.160 --> 01:36:51.320 the questions we had last week so clarification of the 2019 Street reconstruction bond numbers 01:36:51.320 --> 01:36:59.400 that came from a committee member Bray also provided a response to the quality control 01:36:59.400 --> 01:37:04.960 and construction projects councilmember Beck I know this came from you if you had any further 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:11.240 questions on this I'd be happy to expand if you if you did or any councilor yes I didn't 01:37:11.240 --> 01:37:16.440 know how you wanted to handle it oh yeah let's go I did and it's the same question I asked 01:37:16.440 --> 01:37:24.040 earlier in text thought is I know y'all have been running all over town seeing you know 01:37:24.040 --> 01:37:30.000 downtown text dot asphalt failures 2019 bond failures I've asked that in a previous staff 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:38.040 report we're seeing asphalt misbehaving in many of our projects and that's not on us 01:37:38.040 --> 01:37:45.000 the city but it's now our responsibility to deal with brand new asphalt failures so what's 01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:50.720 what's our path forward how are we handling this this QC problem sure so I'll say generally 01:37:50.720 --> 01:37:56.040 you know we strive to try to catch those problems before the asphalt gets placed so that's you 01:37:56.040 --> 01:38:00.720 know kind of what I go into here with our construction specs you know inspection all 01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:07.680 those types of things I'll say recently you know a lot of these things can be placed on 01:38:07.680 --> 01:38:11.920 you know poor workmanship by a contractor or those types of things but I'll say recently 01:38:11.920 --> 01:38:16.440 probably within the last six months we've seen kind of across the board some asphalt 01:38:16.440 --> 01:38:22.400 failures from you know all different types of contractors even some that we know are 01:38:22.400 --> 01:38:27.220 you know are doing a phenomenal job so we are kind of going back to the plants looking 01:38:27.220 --> 01:38:30.560 at kind of the mixes making sure that they're giving us what they're saying they're giving 01:38:30.560 --> 01:38:35.360 us and not just counting on catching these things at the end and you know counting on 01:38:35.360 --> 01:38:40.520 a contractor to come back and redo it so we do have a lot of things in place where we're 01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:45.420 checking quality quality of control quality assurance but with the kind of recent things 01:38:45.420 --> 01:38:50.400 we've seen with the asphalt kind of doing some extra extra work to try to figure out 01:38:50.400 --> 01:38:56.880 what the root causes of that no I appreciate that because it costs us time and money as 01:38:56.880 --> 01:39:03.240 the cities at the city level and it's also costing our residents time and money because 01:39:03.240 --> 01:39:09.560 now they'll have to go back and re scrape and report and and and then every person in 01:39:09.560 --> 01:39:18.000 this room hears about it. Sure. I would say you know we want to even though a lot of these 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:22.600 things or the majority of these things do cost the contractor and not us financially 01:39:22.600 --> 01:39:26.640 but it does have those other ramifications we want to be good partners with our contractors 01:39:26.640 --> 01:39:30.920 we don't want to let them put down asphalt that we know we're going to reject and so 01:39:30.920 --> 01:39:34.340 that's why we're always trying to work with them making sure that they're giving us exactly 01:39:34.340 --> 01:39:39.360 what we're looking for and that they're placing it placing it per our specs doing all the 01:39:39.360 --> 01:39:46.360 testing and those types of things so thank you. I'm going to just put my little two cents 01:39:46.360 --> 01:39:53.640 in here as you were speaking in talking about this as being something that's kind of relatively 01:39:53.640 --> 01:39:59.000 you're starting to kind of put some patterns in here. You know this particular part of 01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:03.680 the country might be preparing itself for our own little mini earthquake right now due 01:40:03.680 --> 01:40:09.560 to a lot of fracking and everything that's going on for a number of years around here. So you 01:40:09.560 --> 01:40:14.000 know as you all are just contemplating and trying to figure out what's going on generally 01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:19.920 speaking you know add that to the mix as well. Yes ma'am. I tend to generally be you know 01:40:19.920 --> 01:40:27.520 correct about a lot of things like that. It's handy. Okay. Okay. So temporary improvement 01:40:27.520 --> 01:40:32.480 for McKinney sidewalks. Sure. So this was just an update. I know we talked about the 01:40:32.480 --> 01:40:37.760 temporary improvements and whether there was a an appetite to go forward with some temporary 01:40:37.760 --> 01:40:42.800 improvements while the permanent project was moving forward. So council did give us direction 01:40:42.800 --> 01:40:48.240 to move forward with the permanent and not do any of the temporary. There were some constraints 01:40:48.240 --> 01:40:55.120 for a temporary temporary solution but we can always go back and look at that if we 01:40:55.120 --> 01:41:02.000 were to get that direction. And a question on that. I just it's my understanding that 01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:08.080 council member Holland intends to pitch that. So I just wanted to thank him. And I imagine 01:41:08.080 --> 01:41:12.080 one of the prior constraints might have been that we didn't have a pedestrian walkability 01:41:12.080 --> 01:41:17.880 ADA coordinator. So got that one covered now. Thank you. So I will say the next item kind 01:41:17.880 --> 01:41:21.920 of leads into this one. So if you want to give me a second now kind of talk through 01:41:21.920 --> 01:41:27.540 this one. So we didn't want to give an update on the permanent McKinney sidewalk project. 01:41:27.540 --> 01:41:34.400 So currently at 30 percent but due to some design challenges we've seen. So let me back 01:41:34.400 --> 01:41:38.400 up. So one of the things when we passed this project was we didn't know how much right 01:41:38.400 --> 01:41:42.080 of way we were going to need. Didn't know kind of the utilities that were out there. 01:41:42.080 --> 01:41:46.640 So really wanted to move this project forward to 30 percent to understand you know what 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:51.920 the challenges would be to put in that permanent sidewalk at the right of way direction. So 01:41:51.920 --> 01:41:56.600 we are 30 percent. We've done those surveys gathered a lot of information and we are seeing 01:41:56.600 --> 01:42:01.040 some unforeseen obstacles. So we wanted to come back to mobility committee with a couple 01:42:01.040 --> 01:42:05.640 of options to get some direction kind of see what y'all's appetite was for any of these 01:42:05.640 --> 01:42:10.840 options. So option one would be to continue to design on the south side of McKinney. So 01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:14.760 that's kind of where we've done our survey and where we're going to put that permanent 01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:21.120 sidewalk in. This would involve acquiring all the right of way and relocating all the 01:42:21.120 --> 01:42:28.880 utilities that are out there and in the way which could be a pretty time consuming process. 01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:35.480 So typically right of way acquisition and utility relocation are the longest things 01:42:35.480 --> 01:42:39.960 take the most time during construction or during design. So that is option one. We can 01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:45.600 keep going get it all the way to 100 percent and move forward. Option two we can conduct 01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:50.820 a feasibility study on the north side of the road. So that feasibility study is really 01:42:50.820 --> 01:42:55.680 kind of the same thing we did on the south side. We would do some survey find out what 01:42:55.680 --> 01:42:59.880 how much right of way we need to acquire what kind of utilities are in the way that would 01:42:59.880 --> 01:43:04.920 cost about twenty five thousand dollars to do that feasibility study. The pros of that 01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:10.380 is it could potentially be an easier route to put in but the cons is we spend another 01:43:10.380 --> 01:43:14.000 twenty five thousand dollars and it may be we may be in the same boat that we are on 01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:20.060 the south side lots of right of way and lots of utilities. So option three we have had 01:43:20.060 --> 01:43:24.080 our consultant look at the existing right of way that we have out there. We believe 01:43:24.080 --> 01:43:30.200 that we can complete a full sidewalk from Woodrow to loop 38 within our existing sidewalk 01:43:30.200 --> 01:43:36.280 or within our existing right of way. It will not be at the ultimate right of way for if 01:43:36.280 --> 01:43:41.120 we come back and do that roadway section. So some pieces of that would have to be removed 01:43:41.120 --> 01:43:46.960 and replaced in the future when we come back and do the actual roadway reconstruction between 01:43:46.960 --> 01:43:52.200 Woodrow and loop 28. But we believe that we can move forward with a sidewalk that would 01:43:52.200 --> 01:43:58.280 connect all the way from Woodrow to loop 28 utilizing the existing existing sidewalks 01:43:58.280 --> 01:44:03.600 that are out there. So really just filling in the gaps. The cons of this would be that 01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:09.120 the sidewalk would be variable length or variable width. So some places it would be five feet 01:44:09.120 --> 01:44:15.600 some places eight feet. We would install the wider sidewalk but some of the existing sidewalk 01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:21.800 is a narrower sidewalk. Pros of this. We've already got existing structures out there. 01:44:21.800 --> 01:44:26.760 So it's less costly. We would be within our own right of way. Don't have to buy any right 01:44:26.760 --> 01:44:31.880 of way. Don't have to move any utilities. And we could do it pretty quickly. I say pretty 01:44:31.880 --> 01:44:39.920 quickly. We would have our design consultant design just the connection pieces probably 01:44:39.920 --> 01:44:45.080 three to six months and then be in construction relatively shortly after that. So those are 01:44:45.080 --> 01:44:49.720 the three options that we're currently looking at now. Our recommendation would be to move 01:44:49.720 --> 01:44:53.520 forward with option three especially you know knowing what we know now about the right of 01:44:53.520 --> 01:45:00.520 way acquisition the utility coordination our relocation and knowing our what the the communication 01:45:00.520 --> 01:45:05.080 that's happened you know recently about you know making sure that we get a viable walkway 01:45:05.080 --> 01:45:09.920 all the way from Woodrow to loop 288. So that would be our our recommendation. And now I'm 01:45:09.920 --> 01:45:15.120 open any questions or direction. All right. So this will this what I want to do because 01:45:15.120 --> 01:45:21.560 I want to watch our time. I want you all to tell us which option and tell us one reason 01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:32.480 why. Go ahead. Yeah. Favorite option three. I asked some people including the young person 01:45:32.480 --> 01:45:37.160 who came to council at the previous meeting and spoke on it and they said they wanted 01:45:37.160 --> 01:45:42.360 it done fast. My only concern would be if there's any crossings of the street that there 01:45:42.360 --> 01:45:48.840 would be maybe like flashy signs and you know a nice crosswalk painted. Yeah. I favorite 01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:56.240 option three. I'm with similar concerns. I minimize a number of street crossings and 01:45:56.240 --> 01:46:01.960 things like that but sooner and dedicated is better than you know it's worth the extra 01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:07.280 cost that we might incur in the future. All right. Well I'm going to say I favor option 01:46:07.280 --> 01:46:12.480 one because I do understand that we're going to do something significant with that road 01:46:12.480 --> 01:46:19.840 on down the line anyway. Not real sure of when that is going to occur. But I think that 01:46:19.840 --> 01:46:26.960 if we were to do option one we're just simply preparing ourselves for a minimum amount that 01:46:26.960 --> 01:46:33.400 we would need later on down the line. That's my preference. Yes sir. Option three because 01:46:33.400 --> 01:46:40.420 it's a shorter construction timeline less expensive but I do have a question about that. 01:46:40.420 --> 01:46:46.160 Which side is that. It would be on the south side. Okay. Okay. Option three. So I'm going 01:46:46.160 --> 01:46:50.720 to throw a wrench in it. I'm going to go for option to assuming we're able to do some sort 01:46:50.720 --> 01:46:57.800 of temporary measures in the meantime because between the loop and Ryan High School there's 01:46:57.800 --> 01:47:02.000 already a 10 foot side path on the north side. So that would make that continuous reduce 01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:07.640 unnecessary road crossings and overall and kind of like you said for option one create 01:47:07.640 --> 01:47:11.240 something that will last a little longer than option three would and we make hopefully won't 01:47:11.240 --> 01:47:19.120 interrupt it as much as option three. We've got three for three. One for one. So that's 01:47:19.120 --> 01:47:23.200 where we're going to go. We're going to look at the recommendation. Perfect. Thank you. 01:47:23.200 --> 01:47:30.480 Thank you. Okay. So the next one up is traffic calming measures. Did anyone have any additional 01:47:30.480 --> 01:47:38.960 questions on this one? Oh the only question. Did you all have any questions? Yes we had 01:47:38.960 --> 01:47:44.120 a question. Yeah I was curious if we could get a future presentation on this specifically. 01:47:44.120 --> 01:47:46.920 We hear a lot. I mean I know y'all hear a lot of people complaining about speeding in 01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:51.240 their neighborhoods and that kind of thing safety concerns. I'd be curious to hear from 01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:59.120 staff what resources y'all would need staff wise like new staff what kind of budget might 01:47:59.120 --> 01:48:04.040 be possible for a traffic calming program. I know there are other cities that do it and 01:48:04.040 --> 01:48:09.960 they respond to concerns for about speeding or safety issues because as we read in this 01:48:09.960 --> 01:48:16.040 report traffic calming is a much more effective 24 hours a day implementation versus just 01:48:16.040 --> 01:48:20.040 occasional human enforcement. So I'd like to hear a future presentation on what that 01:48:20.040 --> 01:48:24.520 would look like resource wise. Yes ma'am. I think we can add that to the future items 01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:29.760 matrix. Yeah it's currently on there. So we were planning on bringing back several presentations 01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:35.200 especially I want to make sure that we're reporting on our metrics as we're as we're 01:48:35.200 --> 01:48:38.400 implementing these things and we're tracking them that we're reporting back to the committee. 01:48:38.400 --> 01:48:42.160 So we will absolutely add that to the list. Thanks. All right. You have a question. Yeah 01:48:42.160 --> 01:48:50.440 just since we're already planning that presentation if we could also think about how the public 01:48:50.440 --> 01:48:58.400 will participate in sort of a request process you know engage dentin versus traffic mobility 01:48:58.400 --> 01:49:07.920 or how will the public participate in your needs assessment. Yes sir. And then finally 01:49:07.920 --> 01:49:14.120 down here was the trip. Oh wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. I'm sorry. Did you finish. 01:49:14.120 --> 01:49:17.800 That was a question that you want him to bring back. Yes. OK. Thank you. I thought I was 01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:23.280 looking for a question. Also bring us back. I'm just curious. You can probably answer 01:49:23.280 --> 01:49:29.640 this question right here. Working with developers and putting I'm talking about for businesses 01:49:29.640 --> 01:49:35.680 and neighborhoods. Does traffic calming come up in any kind of way in any of those conversations 01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:40.120 because it looks like we're chasing traffic calm. Sure. So I'll let Farhan answer that 01:49:40.120 --> 01:49:52.040 question for home but deputy director transportation services division. So for that matter as well 01:49:52.040 --> 01:49:59.680 we are looking into the process and and details how it would play out. And this will be included 01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:05.320 as well in our next. So this is a future future conversation. Yes. OK. As I've been seeing 01:50:05.320 --> 01:50:12.960 a lot of little roundabouts in different locations that I have been to more than Denver but other 01:50:12.960 --> 01:50:18.200 places that I've seen where they're using a few more roundabouts in certain certain 01:50:18.200 --> 01:50:26.800 places. Thank you very much. Looking forward to bringing that back. Trip fund usage. Sure. 01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:31.880 So the last item was the trip from usage. So historically we have used our trip funds 01:50:31.880 --> 01:50:38.060 and support existing projects that align with the program's goals and enhancing pedestrian 01:50:38.060 --> 01:50:43.900 multimodal. Now that we have Farhan and his team transportation planning we are looking 01:50:43.900 --> 01:50:49.000 at utilizing those trip funds and creating kind of standalone projects that meet those 01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:55.880 requirements working with DCTA and creating specific projects to utilize those trip funds. 01:50:55.880 --> 01:51:01.920 Any committee with a committee from some another trip fund type committee or something like 01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:08.720 that. I don't believe so. You're doing anything like that. Yeah. And I don't mean this to 01:51:08.720 --> 01:51:14.440 be harsh but this is real thin. It's a little bit of a non answer and I apologize for the 01:51:14.440 --> 01:51:22.720 harshness of that response. But my question is could I get a crude answer is fine. But 01:51:22.720 --> 01:51:31.360 could I get an assessment of sort of street versus bike pad versus mass transit levels 01:51:31.360 --> 01:51:38.800 in our trip projects. Sure. Maybe for the last one or two cycles. Just because my sense 01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:45.640 is we're spending a lot on streets and rather than mass transit and bike pad which I think 01:51:45.640 --> 01:51:52.200 was more of the spirit of the trip funding. And if we're going to spend it on streets 01:51:52.200 --> 01:51:58.400 I want us to do it intentionally out of our operational M&O budgets and bond budgets rather 01:51:58.400 --> 01:52:03.720 than incidentally and accidentally out of our trip funding. Sure. So we can absolutely 01:52:03.720 --> 01:52:08.420 provide that we have a report that we report back to DCTA on all of the projects we're 01:52:08.420 --> 01:52:13.800 using trip funds for. I will say generally those you know I can think of specifically 01:52:13.800 --> 01:52:18.800 on Bonnie Bray phase three the trip funding is allocated on that project but it's specifically 01:52:18.800 --> 01:52:24.400 for pedestrian utilities, pedestrian facilities and those types of things. So we can absolutely 01:52:24.400 --> 01:52:28.400 get you that information on where that trip funds have been allocated historically where 01:52:28.400 --> 01:52:35.160 they're at. And then you know like I said as we move forward we'll be creating specific 01:52:35.160 --> 01:52:42.160 projects for that trip funding. Awesome sauce thank you. Okay. Oh yes. But just to be clear 01:52:42.160 --> 01:52:47.400 on that Bonnie Bray project those are facilities that are like streets policies would have 01:52:47.400 --> 01:52:54.200 not required because they're our own policies but you know told us to build anyways right. 01:52:54.200 --> 01:53:06.000 Correct. Anything else? Right that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you. Where is the little 01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:12.760 part that always mess up? The future items matrix? Yes we have five minutes probably 01:53:12.760 --> 01:53:19.620 less than five minutes. All right did anybody have any anything that they wanted to note 01:53:19.620 --> 01:53:27.000 on this particular area? There's a lot here is there anything we need to take off? Sometimes 01:53:27.000 --> 01:53:39.520 some of them are completed. We can leave the trip funding item on and follow up with your 01:53:39.520 --> 01:53:47.120 to ensure that we follow up with your question. Okay. Anything else? Next meeting is the 20th. 01:53:47.120 --> 01:53:50.280 Well I think we're just gonna leave this here. That looks like there's any questions comments 01:53:50.280 --> 01:53:57.640 or concerns in this regard. Yes did you have to? No no I was pointing at Councilor Holland. 01:53:57.640 --> 01:54:15.160 I was just asking the next meeting. Oh we'll get to that in just a second. For number three 01:54:15.160 --> 01:54:22.560 yes. Let's get a question let's get an answer on number three. Let's ask a question please. 01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:31.760 Oh I'm sorry oh concluding. Okay so concluding items that there's nothing else between we'll 01:54:31.760 --> 01:54:37.000 move to concluding items. Thank you. My first comment is thanks to staff who put the mobility 01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:42.360 plans goals and strategies on the presentations. I requested that a couple meetings and I appreciate 01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:47.960 that that's been implemented. I have one request to I guess add to the matrix. So years ago 01:54:47.960 --> 01:54:55.240 I met with staff including Sarah Hensley before she was our permanent city manager about issues 01:54:55.240 --> 01:54:59.720 of construction signs blocking pedestrian rights of way when the sidewalk was not under 01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:04.320 construction or otherwise blocked. And I feel like I've seen improvements over time that 01:55:04.320 --> 01:55:08.920 I'm more frequently seeing the signs put in the grass nearby instead of the sidewalk or 01:55:08.920 --> 01:55:14.720 a bike lane. But I am continuing to see where construction signs are being plopped in the 01:55:14.720 --> 01:55:18.920 middle of a sidewalk on busy roads when there was space right next to the sidewalk to place 01:55:18.920 --> 01:55:22.880 it. So I'm curious I don't know if this would be a presentation or what I'll let y'all 01:55:22.880 --> 01:55:28.120 determine that to understand you know are there difficulties that I'm not seeing that's causing 01:55:28.120 --> 01:55:34.320 that to happen or is there something else we can do to either prevent these signs from 01:55:34.320 --> 01:55:40.680 being placed in sidewalks when there's space nearby or catching it quickly when they are 01:55:40.680 --> 01:55:47.600 placed there. So two examples I did to discuss no Engage Denton reports or requests of two 01:55:47.600 --> 01:55:51.320 blocking the sidewalk on Malone when there was space pretty close by. And then I saw 01:55:51.320 --> 01:55:59.160 a detour sign maybe on McKinney Street in downtown. A detour sign blocking the sidewalk 01:55:59.160 --> 01:56:03.320 there as well when there was space nearby. So something to continue improving on that 01:56:03.320 --> 01:56:06.840 to prevent that from happening so people don't have to step in busy roadways to get around 01:56:06.840 --> 01:56:13.200 them or if they're in a wheelchair good luck. That's all I had. Thanks. So that is what 01:56:13.200 --> 01:56:19.640 the Mobility Committee is for and I noticed that but I didn't put two and two together 01:56:19.640 --> 01:56:26.880 to make a statement about it but I am increasingly noticing that as well around town. Thank you. 01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:33.680 I just want to acknowledge the huge success that the Halloween town events have been and 01:56:33.680 --> 01:56:39.600 specific to this committee. It's wonderful to see all of these families and just huge 01:56:39.600 --> 01:56:45.440 crowds of people having safe downtown spaces to walk around in and enjoy our city and so 01:56:45.440 --> 01:56:49.240 I think that's been really wonderful to see over the last month. I am so proud of our 01:56:49.240 --> 01:56:55.960 city. I really really am. So we did the future items. This gentleman wanted to know the next 01:56:55.960 --> 01:57:03.760 meeting which just happens at the same November 27th November 27th is your date. It would 01:57:03.760 --> 01:57:12.040 be the last Wednesday of the month at 10 o'clock ending at 12. Okay so if there's not anything 01:57:12.040 --> 01:57:19.040 else I am going to conclude our meeting at 1157. Thank you all for a great job. City 01:57:19.040 --> 01:57:19.720 of Denton people.