WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:18.240
 This is our work session and with the quorum present, I will call us to order at 5.05 p.m.

00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:22.600
 First item on our work session agenda is citizen comment on consent agenda.

00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.200
 Is there anyone wishing to speak on consent?

00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:26.200
 Okay.

00:00:26.200 --> 00:00:32.280
 Seeing none, we'll go ahead with our next item on the agenda, which is clarification

00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:35.480
 for tonight's agenda in our public meeting.

00:00:35.480 --> 00:00:39.400
 The first being the minutes from September 25th.

00:00:39.400 --> 00:00:42.400
 Questions for staff on the minutes?

00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:43.400
 Okay.

00:00:43.400 --> 00:00:44.760
 How about anything on consent?

00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:49.160
 We do have five plats there.

00:00:49.160 --> 00:00:51.360
 Need anything brought forward?

00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:53.040
 Okay.

00:00:53.040 --> 00:00:54.640
 Items for individual consideration.

00:00:54.640 --> 00:01:00.200
 We have one, and that's for a PP240006.

00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:01.520
 Sean will give us that summary.

00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:02.520
 Hi, Sean.

00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.520
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

00:01:05.520 --> 00:01:15.260
 Let me get that pulled up here.

00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:34.200
 All right, so PP240006, this is a preliminary plat for large property off Marshall Road.

00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:36.160
 It is not yet ready for approval.

00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:43.020
 We're working through a number of elements, so we are recommending no, but we do not object

00:01:43.020 --> 00:01:48.520
 to their request for an extension, which could be granted to October 23rd, 2024.

00:01:48.520 --> 00:01:51.200
 Happy to answer any questions.

00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:52.200
 Thank you, Sean.

00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.640
 I'll play Commissioner Villarreal, because I know he will want to know.

00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:56.640
 First extension, I think?

00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:57.640
 Yes, ma'am.

00:01:57.640 --> 00:01:58.640
 Yeah?

00:01:58.640 --> 00:01:59.640
 Okay.

00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:00.640
 Okay.

00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.640
 Perfect.

00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.640
 Wanted to clarify that.

00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:03.640
 Any questions then on that?

00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:04.640
 Okay.

00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:05.640
 Thank you very much.

00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:06.640
 Appreciate it.

00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:14.040
 Public hearing items, 5A, staff is requesting that item be postponed.

00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:18.120
 My question to you, are we opening that public hearing for that item?

00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:19.120
 Yes, ma'am.

00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:20.120
 We are.

00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.120
 And leaving that open?

00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:24.520
 Okay.

00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.240
 Questions before we move on from commission?

00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:28.240
 No?

00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.840
 Okay, then 5B is similar.

00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.280
 Staff is requesting the item be postponed until the 23rd.

00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.660
 So same, we will open the public hearing, and then we'll look for a motion to postpone

00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:42.040
 that until the 23rd.

00:02:42.040 --> 00:02:43.040
 Okay.

00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:49.800
 Then next will be 5C, AESA 240001.

00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:58.640
 Here is Christy for presentation in our work session.

00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:05.240
 Thank you.

00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:09.880
 I'm Christy Upton, environmental compliance coordinator, and tonight I will be presenting

00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:16.080
 an alternative ESA plan for a project called Grand Parkside.

00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:23.880
 This is seeking approval for an alternative ESA plan for modifications to 1.46 acres

00:03:23.880 --> 00:03:27.840
 of what is currently identified as undeveloped floodplain.

00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:35.680
 The resulting floodplain will meet the Dinton's criteria for approval for flood control, will

00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:43.240
 be landscaped using native grasses, flowering plants, and trees, and will include one rain

00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:44.240
 garden.

00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.520
 Sorry about that.

00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:52.080
 And to provide you more information about the site, this is going to be a residential

00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.080
 development.

00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:57.840
 There was a preliminary plat that was approved on August 14th.

00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:02.240
 The residential is R6.

00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:14.640
 This is US 377 here, and this is Hobson Lane, and this development will result in disturbances

00:04:14.640 --> 00:04:20.760
 to this area of what is currently identified as undeveloped floodplain.

00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:27.200
 I do want to go into a little bit of why I am using my words carefully here.

00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:35.400
 This is currently unstudied floodplain, which means that FEMA kind of put on a map where

00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:44.000
 they believed the 1% flood would occur, and a flood would occur in a 1% chance of that

00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.080
 event.

00:04:47.080 --> 00:04:57.720
 This area not having been studied before really just kind of is an understanding that with

00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:08.120
 further engineered design and further engineered study of that land, that area might change.

00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.560
 The limits of that floodplain might change.

00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:17.600
 And so in our code, in our Denton Development Code, as of today, it does not identify or

00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:25.920
 doesn't acknowledge those drainage studies as an update to the location, the extent of

00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:27.840
 these undeveloped floodplains.

00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:35.840
 So currently today we have to follow that FEMA 1%, what is currently on FEMA's map.

00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:43.440
 And so this land is generally in its natural state, and that's identified as undeveloped

00:05:43.440 --> 00:05:46.520
 floodplain.

00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:55.120
 The project will be filling in that land, but in exchange for the removal of that undeveloped

00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:03.160
 floodplain designation from that area, the developer is offered up to use native grasses

00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:10.920
 and much of the area that is going to be the common space for this residential development.

00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:19.220
 But in addition to that, acknowledging that residential runoff has pollutants, ubiquitous

00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:26.680
 pollutants that come off of properties, and acknowledging that has designed into the drainage,

00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:35.120
 the overall drainage of this area to intercept the sheep flow off of residential properties.

00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:40.280
 The interception of that with that rain garden, the idea or the concept of these rain gardens

00:06:40.280 --> 00:06:50.720
 is that the sheep flow will be concentrated, enter into that rain garden, will get infiltrated

00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.520
 through the soils, and the pollutants will get sequestered there in that area of the

00:06:55.520 --> 00:06:56.720
 rain garden.

00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:03.320
 And then what's exiting the rain garden to the storm drainage will result in something

00:07:03.320 --> 00:07:11.820
 that will be of higher quality storm water runoff.

00:07:11.820 --> 00:07:21.620
 So there were notifications sent out, and we received one response in favor of the project,

00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:30.880
 and staff has written a set of recommendations as in your backup, namely to ensure the establishment

00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:37.640
 of the rain garden and the establishment of those native grasses prior to the final walkthrough

00:07:37.640 --> 00:07:42.640
 of the project by environmental services to confirm everything has been established as

00:07:42.640 --> 00:07:47.000
 it was listed in the plan.

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:53.760
 And then also one neighborhood sign prior to the issuance of building permits.

00:07:53.760 --> 00:08:03.040
 I started adding this because we do want residents to know what their future neighboring property

00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:09.800
 is going to look like, just so that there's not questions in the future.

00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:14.520
 And with that, that will be the end of that project.

00:08:14.520 --> 00:08:18.040
 Any questions for me?

00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:19.700
 Commissioner Villarreal.

00:08:19.700 --> 00:08:20.700
 Thank you, Chair.

00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:22.720
 And this may be a question for the applicant later today.

00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.640
 Are they going to be here today by chance?

00:08:25.640 --> 00:08:32.440
 You know, I didn't receive any communications from them confirming, but typically the engineer

00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:33.560
 record does show.

00:08:33.560 --> 00:08:34.560
 So I imagine.

00:08:34.560 --> 00:08:35.560
 Gotcha.

00:08:35.560 --> 00:08:40.720
 But I can check with him in a few minutes when I finish this presentation.

00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.720
 Sure.

00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:47.440
 And just checking here, I see that during your presentation, you mentioned they reached

00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:51.440
 out to folks in the community that didn't hold a community meeting.

00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:52.440
 Correct.

00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:57.040
 In the backup, it says that they reached out to anyone who wanted to discuss the project.

00:08:57.040 --> 00:09:00.400
 Did that mean they were waiting for people to reach out first before they reached out

00:09:00.400 --> 00:09:01.560
 to the community?

00:09:01.560 --> 00:09:08.840
 The communication to me was that the property owner, the current property owner, he went

00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:13.640
 door to door or called neighbors and had a conversation with them.

00:09:13.640 --> 00:09:14.640
 Okay.

00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:15.640
 And they felt that was sufficient.

00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:16.640
 Gotcha.

00:09:16.640 --> 00:09:17.640
 For this project.

00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:18.640
 Thank you.

00:09:18.640 --> 00:09:22.640
 Along those lines, I read that the backup that he, and the list of neighbors that he

00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:26.000
 talked to, feedback at all from those conversations?

00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.000
 I didn't see that.

00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.960
 I did not receive any feedback myself.

00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:37.000
 The only response I received was that one response from a property owner, yes.

00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.120
 So we don't know what transpired with their conversation, I guess.

00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:42.120
 Correct.

00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.120
 Okay.

00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:44.120
 Okay.

00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:45.120
 Commissioner Thacker.

00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:46.120
 Thank you, Chair.

00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:47.720
 So yeah, a couple of issues.

00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.280
 So I would love to know what their feedback was.

00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:54.320
 I don't understand the point in reaching out to the community and asking them what their

00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:57.000
 thoughts are and something if we're not recording the thoughts.

00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:58.000
 Okay.

00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.920
 You're in city office and you don't know what they said.

00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:00.920
 Correct.

00:10:00.920 --> 00:10:03.520
 So I mean, that's the kind of information that we need.

00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:08.340
 I would imagine more than one of them asked what a rain garden was.

00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:11.240
 So can you try to explain that to me again?

00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:12.240
 Sure.

00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:13.240
 Sure.

00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.400
 Because to me, it just, it seems like a bunch of sitting water that could be around kids

00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:18.400
 and animals.

00:10:18.400 --> 00:10:22.040
 And I mean, in my own neighborhood, we had two West Nile reports.

00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:23.280
 I just kind of want to know.

00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:24.280
 I understand.

00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:25.280
 Yes.

00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:28.640
 So they followed what's called I Swim.

00:10:28.640 --> 00:10:35.040
 And there is a drawing here at the bottom of this, this exhibit to show you what that

00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:39.000
 what the profile of these rain gardens are.

00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:45.400
 I Swim or I'm sorry, I used an acronym there, I apologize, Integrated Stormwater Management.

00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:53.000
 And the city of Denton is a participant in the Integrated Stormwater Management program.

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:58.920
 And this is something that the North Central Texas Council of Governments put together.

00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:05.000
 So many years ago, all these surrounding communities got together and recognized that we needed

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:12.600
 more specifications more standards like this in order to design these integrated stormwater

00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:13.600
 systems.

00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:23.200
 And our drainage review follows the I Swim manuals and this is just taking straight from

00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.000
 the I Swim.

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:32.760
 So the idea of these rain gardens is to not hold the water for more than 24 to 48 hours.

00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:38.880
 Mesquite larvae cannot grow for they need longer than that in order for an egg to hatch

00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:40.640
 into an adult.

00:11:40.640 --> 00:11:47.960
 So the opportunity for mosquitoes to emerge from these type of structures is very low.

00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:49.560
 It does require maintenance.

00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:55.760
 So if there is standing water for any longer than 24 to 48 hours, then that would trigger

00:11:55.760 --> 00:12:06.440
 for us to say to the HOA that they will need to go out there and perform maintenance.

00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:17.120
 So if we have three days of rain and it's 100 degrees outside and everybody's on vacation,

00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:18.120
 what do we do?

00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.120
 That's a good question.

00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.520
 That's July in Texas.

00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:30.200
 I think the engineer, if he is here, will be able to explain a little bit more about

00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.320
 his final design.

00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:38.280
 The final engineering designs have not gone through review, but they will be following

00:12:38.280 --> 00:12:40.520
 the standard.

00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:48.480
 Three days of rain is -- and even with three days of rain or large rain events, these systems

00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:55.640
 are designed to drain after the rain finishes within that 24 to 48 hours.

00:12:55.640 --> 00:12:56.640
 OK?

00:12:56.640 --> 00:12:58.640
 >> You OK?

00:12:58.640 --> 00:12:59.640
 Yep.

00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:00.640
 You're good.

00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:01.640
 OK.

00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:02.640
 Thank you.

00:13:02.640 --> 00:13:03.640
 Commissioner Fedora?

00:13:03.640 --> 00:13:04.640
 >> Yep.

00:13:04.640 --> 00:13:08.400
 >> To follow up on Commissioner Haggard, can you describe a little bit more what the context

00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:12.280
 is with the maintenance of the area?

00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:13.280
 >> Mm-hmm.

00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:14.280
 Yes.

00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:23.320
 So maintenance typically is inspecting in some period of time, like quarterly, for trash

00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:29.800
 and debris, and removing that typically does not include removing vegetation or mowing

00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:33.080
 the vegetation unless there's clogging.

00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.080
 And then if there's clogging of the soils, when I say clogging, it means clogging of

00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:42.440
 the soil so that that rain, as it enters those rain gardens, is expected to drain.

00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.960
 And if it's not, it's most likely it's clogged, right?

00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.280
 And so vegetation would probably have to be removed at that time.

00:13:49.280 --> 00:13:56.600
 And then they would have to replant that vegetation to reestablish what is intended to be the

00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.560
 final product.

00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:01.560
 Commissioner Pruitt?

00:14:01.560 --> 00:14:11.000
 >> Just so I make sure I'm following, the language in the three-year monitoring period

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:15.840
 and then the 85 percent trigger, I seem to see that more and more often.

00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:23.560
 So is that our best understanding of what should be sufficient for these types of applications?

00:14:23.560 --> 00:14:28.600
 And have we had experience yet, or is that sort of the new bar that we're setting recently

00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:30.920
 and what we believe it's high enough?

00:14:30.920 --> 00:14:31.920
 Does that make sense?

00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:36.520
 >> You're asking about the three-year period before environmental services accepts the

00:14:36.520 --> 00:14:38.760
 final landscaping.

00:14:38.760 --> 00:14:43.800
 So this is a standard we've actually been following for at least the six years that

00:14:43.800 --> 00:14:45.880
 I've been working here.

00:14:45.880 --> 00:14:50.800
 So we've been putting it into each and every one of these alternative ESA plans we present

00:14:50.800 --> 00:14:52.880
 to you.

00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:59.020
 We did also, I believe, about two years ago put that into the Denton Development Code,

00:14:59.020 --> 00:15:07.200
 so we created a standard for each of these applications that we intend to have that procedure

00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.200
 in place.

00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:09.200
 >> Okay.

00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.640
 Thank you.

00:15:12.640 --> 00:15:16.200
 >> Question back to these educational signs, since this is the first time I think I've

00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.480
 read that.

00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:19.480
 What would that be?

00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.360
 >> We haven't come up with the final design.

00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:23.360
 >> Okay.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.440
 >> Yes.

00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:31.440
 So the applicant and I will work together to come up with a final design at the civil

00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:32.440
 plant.

00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:33.440
 >> Okay.

00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:38.120
 Yeah, and I think I saw on this one where -- I think it's different than what we just

00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:41.520
 looked at, because this said one, I think this one said two.

00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:43.400
 I know we have two on the next one.

00:15:43.400 --> 00:15:44.400
 >> Correct.

00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:45.400
 Yes.

00:15:45.400 --> 00:15:46.400
 >> It's just one on this one?

00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:47.400
 >> Correct.

00:15:47.400 --> 00:15:48.400
 >> I assume it has to do because of the size of the area.

00:15:48.400 --> 00:15:53.360
 >> Yes, it's up to this body if you want to propose to make a change to the number of

00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:57.880
 signs that is always open to discussion.

00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:04.520
 I felt like one sign near the rain garden would help explain that, you know, what they're

00:16:04.520 --> 00:16:05.520
 anticipating.

00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:06.520
 >> Yeah.

00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:10.720
 Yeah, and I just want -- here it says two, so I don't know if you want to change it on

00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.560
 your slide or if this is a slide that's coming from the other one we're going to discuss

00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:15.560
 shortly.

00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:16.560
 >> Oh, I apologize.

00:16:16.560 --> 00:16:17.560
 I missed that.

00:16:17.560 --> 00:16:18.560
 >> Okay.

00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:19.560
 >> That's on me.

00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:20.560
 >> Okay.

00:16:20.560 --> 00:16:21.560
 >> Okay.

00:16:21.560 --> 00:16:23.960
 >> Anybody else questions on this one?

00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:24.960
 Okay.

00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.120
 Then I know you're going to stay right up there because we've got another one, and that is

00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:34.880
 going to be 5D AESA 240002.

00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:39.880
 >> If there's no objections, this one looks and feels a lot like the other because we

00:16:39.880 --> 00:16:42.680
 prepared both of them about the same time.

00:16:42.680 --> 00:16:46.480
 So I'm going to be glossing over a lot of the information that was just shared.

00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:47.480
 Is that okay?

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:52.160
 >> Yeah, because we're going to go over the full report in the public hearing.

00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:53.160
 >> Okay.

00:16:53.160 --> 00:16:55.520
 >> Unless anyone has.

00:16:55.520 --> 00:16:56.520
 >> So this one will be --

00:16:56.520 --> 00:17:00.360
 >> We can do more specific questions, too, after your summary, sure.

00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:01.400
 >> Absolutely.

00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:08.720
 So in this project, this one will be for DENTEX, which received approval for -- I'll go over

00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.520
 that in a minute.

00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:17.880
 But this is for modifications to 29.9 acres of undeveloped flood plain.

00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:23.160
 And the mitigation is very similar.

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.320
 This is the property.

00:17:25.320 --> 00:17:32.000
 There was an amendment to the comprehensive plan and the zoning in August that this body

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.760
 saw, I believe, in July timeframe.

00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:43.720
 And it's at the northeast of the intersection of John Payne Parkway and Johnson Road.

00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:51.200
 The field assessments, again, confirmed that this is undeveloped flood plain, but, again,

00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.280
 it's been agricultural land for quite some time.

00:17:55.280 --> 00:18:00.160
 So the value, the ecological value of this is pretty low.

00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.280
 And again, it's unstudied flood plain.

00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:13.520
 So it has that same kind of, you know, extent parameters to it in that as they studied it,

00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:16.920
 they found it was -- it's much different.

00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:22.320
 The geometry of these flood plains is much different.

00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:29.960
 The mitigation plan reads very similarly in that there will be establishment of post-construction

00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:37.960
 of that flood plain, there's going to be native grasses, flowering plants and trees.

00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.320
 And then they proposed three rain gardens.

00:18:41.320 --> 00:18:45.440
 And forgive me if I didn't fix the slide in the last one, because I think they went from

00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.440
 two to three.

00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.860
 And so there was a little bit of number changes going on, sorry.

00:18:50.860 --> 00:18:59.040
 And then the plant selections were determined based upon the final -- expected final hydrological

00:18:59.040 --> 00:19:00.040
 conditions.

00:19:00.040 --> 00:19:04.720
 And this one I want to stress a little bit more, because here we have a defined channel

00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:09.200
 as a final product through the stem of this development.

00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:17.240
 And that stem is going to be channeling water or transferring water through, which means

00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.560
 that there could be water within that channel for a longer period of time.

00:19:21.560 --> 00:19:29.920
 So hydrologically, some of these plants needed to -- this plant selection was -- it was necessary

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:34.640
 to go through the exercise of understanding that so that they selected the right kind

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.800
 of plants for the right conditions.

00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:43.640
 Moisture soils, plants that can survive in those moisture soils.

00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:48.680
 And then the notifications, I have received no responses.

00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.920
 The property owner did choose to do the same kind of procedures where they went and just

00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.900
 discussed this with the neighbors.

00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:04.000
 And then I did receive a couple of inquiries from property owners nearby who had received

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.040
 notifications, but no one sent in a specifically a response.

00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:17.960
 And then the recommendations should read very much the same caveat of the three rain gardens.

00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.440
 I'll fix that.

00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:24.400
 And with that, I'll take any questions.

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.400
 >> Okay.

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.080
 Questions on this one?

00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:29.960
 You probably have asked all our questions.

00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:35.400
 I guess I'll just follow up on what we did discuss with Commissioner Thaggard's concern.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.200
 You said there would be more water, but not necessarily standing water, where we'd have

00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:46.800
 to be concerned here with regard to mosquitoes, or like -- I assume that was thought about

00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:53.600
 or discussed or -- >> These channels, if --

00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:56.000
 >> They should be moving, correct?

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.000
 >> They should be moving.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.000
 >> Yeah.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:03.740
 >> So the intention there is to have these channels move the water through until it exits

00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:05.640
 the property.

00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:11.280
 One of those things that can happen, and so I want to give you like a full picture here.

00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:13.160
 These are going to be earthen channels.

00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:19.160
 And so one of those things that can happen with earthen channels is that you get scouring,

00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:26.680
 and that scouring can cause holes, you know, kind of like these little low areas that hold

00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.480
 water for a longer period of time.

00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:36.800
 We see that scouring occurring a lot more in the old way of managing channels and earthen

00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:43.400
 channels, which is that, you know, you keep it mowed as state and you keep those low grasses

00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:49.360
 there, and those grasses, when they're kept short, the roots are no longer than the grass

00:21:49.360 --> 00:21:54.200
 that's above it, which means that there's really no root structure to hold the soils

00:21:54.200 --> 00:22:01.040
 for long periods of time, especially in stressful events like high rain events.

00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:10.720
 With this type of proposed revegetation plan, what we anticipate seeing, I can't say that

00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:17.400
 there wouldn't be some movement in the beginning especially, but what we anticipate seeing

00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:23.840
 is that these taller grasses will result in longer roots, and those longer roots will

00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:28.440
 be able to hold the soil more effectively.

00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:35.200
 That's our goal, and that's what we're trying to get these developers to.

00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:36.200
 Commissioner Thagger.

00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:37.560
 Thank you, Chair.

00:22:37.560 --> 00:22:45.520
 The word "unstudied" is making me unsettled, so can we, and I think it would make, I mean,

00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:50.080
 and I'm looking at this property, I mean, it's mass, I mean, you're saying you talk

00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:51.080
 to neighbors.

00:22:51.080 --> 00:22:52.080
 Where?

00:22:52.080 --> 00:22:57.060
 You know, I mean, it's massive, laying out, unless I've just pulled up the wrong thing

00:22:57.060 --> 00:22:58.600
 from my backup.

00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:02.720
 Is this what you're asking about, the notifications?

00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:08.520
 So these notifications were sent to the property owners within that 200-foot buffer and the

00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:09.520
 500-foot buffer.

00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:10.520
 Okay.

00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:11.520
 Yes.

00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:18.480
 Going back to the word "unstudied" and making me unsettled, I think that there's just so

00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.200
 much "what if," right?

00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.400
 We hope that the roots will do this, and it's really not studied.

00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:31.560
 I think that that's, if you look at this development and how detailed it is, the fact that we're

00:23:31.560 --> 00:23:37.600
 kind of, and I mean, I hate to even bring this up, but you think about, you know, like

00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:40.560
 the hurricanes we're experiencing right now, which I know that, you know, that's definitely

00:23:40.560 --> 00:23:43.480
 not going to happen anywhere local, but it's unexpected.

00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:48.360
 We don't know when all of a sudden we're just going to get this hellacious amount of rain,

00:23:48.360 --> 00:23:52.340
 and even things that are studied, we don't know, you know, what the outcomes are going

00:23:52.340 --> 00:23:53.500
 to be.

00:23:53.500 --> 00:24:00.880
 I just wonder if maybe we shouldn't just have a little bit more prudence in studying what

00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:01.880
 would be better.

00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:02.880
 I see.

00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:13.700
 And I understand, but I also, what I'm hearing is you might be layering two different concepts

00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:16.080
 in here when you're asking this question.

00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:17.080
 I hope I'm correct.

00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:18.080
 Is that for us?

00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:19.080
 Okay.

00:24:19.080 --> 00:24:35.360
 Okay, so the concept of unstudied floodplain is because it is a theoretical, informational

00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:39.440
 study that was performed by FEMA.

00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:47.200
 What they did to create those 1% unstudied floodplains is because they don't have enough

00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.920
 information in hand.

00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:55.520
 And Tina, if anyone else has anything else to add to color to this, let me know.

00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:59.480
 I'm not an engineer, but I've discussed this with our engineers a couple of times.

00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:05.600
 So I'm just trying to restate what I think I understand.

00:25:05.600 --> 00:25:10.560
 So are you thinking the rain garden is unstudied when she says unstudied?

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:17.560
 I'm thinking on the last two items that I keep hearing words like unstudied and theoretical,

00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:18.840
 and that is going to be something-

00:25:18.840 --> 00:25:22.680
 Because the unstudied floodplain is just that.

00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.120
 It's because it's on a map that says this is floodplain.

00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:31.320
 And you have to treat it as floodplain unless you go to FEMA and get that revised.

00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:36.440
 So it's unstudied because we don't have any, like, they don't have any working knowledge

00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:37.980
 in the city that it's floodplain.

00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:43.820
 So it's termed unstudied because it says on the map that it's a floodplain.

00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:48.600
 So I'm going to let you all hammer that out a little easier, but I think you're hearing

00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:53.600
 unstudied and I think you're thinking that it has to do with the mitigation.

00:25:53.600 --> 00:26:02.240
 And I don't think it has to do with the mitigation because they're using iSwim, which is definitely

00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:03.240
 studied.

00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:04.240
 Does that help?

00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:05.240
 I don't know.

00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:06.240
 I don't know if that helps or clarifies things.

00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.240
 It's just on the stake here, I really do just kind of want to understand it a little bit

00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:10.240
 better.

00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.240
 So-

00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.000
 Yeah, it's just trying to clarify, I think clarify words and what they relate to.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:16.000
 Thank you.

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.000
 Thank you very much.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:18.000
 You'll take it from there.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.000
 Tina, it looks like you have something to add.

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:24.320
 No, I was just going to, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the unstudied floodplain,

00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:31.520
 it's basically taking into consideration a certain storm event and the existing topographical

00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:37.120
 information that's available based upon the grades that are there and then FEMA assigning

00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:39.520
 what is considered the floodplain.

00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:45.560
 When we have projects, when their civil engineering plans are submitted, they do further analysis

00:26:45.560 --> 00:26:52.160
 and including taking consideration their water runoff calculations to see if any additional

00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.220
 modifications or adjustments need to be made where there's additional protection that needs

00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:57.800
 to be put in place.

00:26:57.800 --> 00:27:02.880
 So if they were thinking that the water was actually going to rise higher than the designated

00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.640
 floodplain area, then in all likelihood, they're taking that into consideration in their design,

00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:13.960
 whether they're retaining water for a limited period of time to slow it down before it enters

00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:19.080
 into a channel or if additional improvements have to be done, but that's factored into

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.080
 the engineering design.

00:27:20.080 --> 00:27:25.260
 But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but what we're getting at here is we have these

00:27:25.260 --> 00:27:31.360
 ESA areas that have been analyzed and are needing to be altered.

00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:39.680
 And so our code allows for alternate options to be provided for, to allow for somebody

00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:45.700
 to be able to acceptably modify that ESA area.

00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:51.960
 And so the rain gardens are one aspect or one tool that we have in the toolbox that

00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:56.520
 we're also able to utilize in order to be able to address the water runoff.

00:27:56.520 --> 00:28:01.840
 And in some extent, the rain gardens also assist with water quality because to the point

00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:07.920
 of an integrated stormwater system, with the I-swim manual, it took into consideration

00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:13.160
 various different tools that are available to be able to address stormwater runoff, both

00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:17.200
 the amount of water running off, but then also the quality of the water running off

00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.560
 on property.

00:28:18.560 --> 00:28:23.220
 And so in this case, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the rain garden would also

00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:27.820
 be able to help address a water quality issue because of the plant materials that are being

00:28:27.820 --> 00:28:30.240
 allowed for within that rain garden.

00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:36.320
 And so we're trying to address to some extent some water quality, but also the water runoff

00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:40.960
 aspect that is associated with this property being developed.

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.960
 Correct.

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:42.960
 Did I get that right?

00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:43.960
 Yes.

00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:48.000
 I think I would add one more element to help maybe kind of visualize this.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:55.080
 Unstudied is pre-anybody doing anything with the land.

00:28:55.080 --> 00:29:02.440
 Studied would be pre-development, but better understanding of what's actually on the land.

00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:08.000
 And that would be, so then you take that studied floodplain, any modifications to that studied

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:15.640
 floodplain is the post-development study of that floodplain so that the final product

00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:25.240
 is throughout, you're showing where that, where the measured 100-year flood is anticipated

00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:26.320
 to rise to.

00:29:26.320 --> 00:29:27.320
 Okay.

00:29:27.320 --> 00:29:28.320
 Okay.

00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:32.040
 Any other questions for Kristy at this point?

00:29:32.040 --> 00:29:37.880
 I mean, we're going to get the full presentation, so.

00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:38.880
 Thank you.

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.600
 If you think of something, none.

00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:41.600
 Okay.

00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:42.600
 Thank you, Kristy.

00:29:42.600 --> 00:29:49.440
 To our next public hearing, that is going to be 5EZ240013.

00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.440
 Hi, Ashley.

00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:58.520
 Good evening.

00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:00.460
 Ashley Eckstead, Associate Planner.

00:30:00.460 --> 00:30:05.320
 This is Z243I35RV Supercenter.

00:30:05.320 --> 00:30:09.880
 This is a request to rezone approximately 0.36 acres of land from a general office zoning

00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:12.720
 district to a highway corridor zoning district.

00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.900
 This is currently undeveloped, but it will be plotted as part of the existing RV sales

00:30:16.900 --> 00:30:19.200
 use to the south and the east.

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:23.880
 The purpose of this rezoning request is to address the non-conformities on that RV sales

00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:25.240
 use lot.

00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:31.360
 The building that is adjacent to the subject property is constructed about 0.85 feet over

00:30:31.360 --> 00:30:36.200
 the property line, and that use is not permitted in geo-zoning, and additionally, it does not

00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:41.040
 meet the required 10-foot setback requirement in HC zoning.

00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:45.020
 Staff does recommend approval, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

00:30:45.020 --> 00:30:49.120
 I have a question.

00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:53.700
 Were there any fines associated with the negligence of them building this?

00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:54.700
 There wasn't.

00:30:54.700 --> 00:30:59.800
 So for the, these, so it was this building and then this building adjacent to it here.

00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:04.380
 We did require an inspection from a structural engineer, so he went out there and inspected

00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:09.920
 that and then required several large improvements to the structure and the foundation.

00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:17.920
 So they did those and then got another inspection report that they were now structurally sound.

00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:18.920
 Okay.

00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:20.640
 So, okay.

00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:21.640
 I think that's interesting.

00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:25.760
 Do we not have, do we not have that in the city, like, you don't get in trouble when

00:31:25.760 --> 00:31:26.760
 you do this kind of thing?

00:31:26.760 --> 00:31:32.520
 I mean, I know they're going through a big process now, which, I mean, yeah.

00:31:32.520 --> 00:31:37.280
 I'm not sure if building safety has, so these were permits that he should have gotten, so

00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:41.520
 I'm not sure if building safety has anything like that, but I don't believe that we required

00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:42.520
 it.

00:31:42.520 --> 00:31:45.040
 Yeah, I think it's good on the vendor that it was the vendor who was doing electrical

00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:49.480
 work, right, that pulled the permit as he should and said, "Oh, the permits will never

00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:50.480
 pulled."

00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:51.480
 Fascinating.

00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.880
 And you're not even on your land.

00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:59.660
 Yeah, I find that remarkable, honestly.

00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:01.640
 Any questions for Ashley on this?

00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:07.240
 That's pretty straightforward, but okay, thank you very much.

00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:14.120
 Okay, that will take us to then 5F, PD 240004.

00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:18.240
 Julie is here for that item.

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.240
 Good evening.

00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:30.200
 All right, Julie Wyatt, I'm presenting PD 244.

00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.200
 Julie is on McKinney.

00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.000
 Just a summary, you'll be happy to answer any questions if you'd like, but this is a

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:44.120
 rezoning from R3 district to PD R6 district to facilitate the development of 119 zero

00:32:44.120 --> 00:32:48.560
 lot line dwellings on 12 acres.

00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:53.680
 When we were talking about this, we kind of talked about why a PD, and this is one of

00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:00.440
 those lots that a PD really fits because of the unusual lot shape and configuration.

00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:02.440
 It is very long and narrow.

00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:10.040
 It's over 2,000 feet long, and then at its narrowest, it's about 250 feet wide.

00:33:10.040 --> 00:33:15.480
 So the lot dimensions, there's also some encumbrances related to electrical utility easements on

00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:19.760
 the site, so that further squeezes the property.

00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:25.200
 So those lot dimensions and encumbrances kind of create a unique situation for this property.

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.160
 And then the use, it's zero lot line homes.

00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:33.080
 It's not something we typically see within the city of Denton.

00:33:33.080 --> 00:33:41.880
 It's a smaller lot, platted as single family, but one of the structure walls will sit on

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:47.760
 the property line for one side, and then the other opposite side would have a setback.

00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:52.200
 So it's something we don't see often within the city of Denton.

00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:57.320
 We are recommending approval of the request because it complies with the criteria for

00:33:57.320 --> 00:33:58.320
 approval.

00:33:58.320 --> 00:33:59.800
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

00:33:59.800 --> 00:34:02.580
 One thing I failed to mention is where it is.

00:34:02.580 --> 00:34:03.580
 It is on McKinney.

00:34:03.580 --> 00:34:10.560
 It spans between McKinney and Paisley on the east side of town, just inside the loop.

00:34:10.560 --> 00:34:13.920
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:18.240
 >> My question is, do we have for Julie, Commissioner Villarreal.

00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:19.240
 >> Thank you, Chair.

00:34:19.240 --> 00:34:21.960
 Real quick, did they do a traffic impact study?

00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:22.960
 >> They did, yes.

00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:23.960
 >> Okay.

00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:24.960
 >> That was reviewed and approved.

00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.960
 Yes, sir.

00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:26.960
 >> Gotcha.

00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.120
 And what did that show the impact on the area?

00:34:29.120 --> 00:34:36.380
 >> It really showed the impact that they really needed to address was turning into the site.

00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:40.520
 So if anybody's driven on McKinney, you know it can be challenging to take a left-hand

00:34:40.520 --> 00:34:42.640
 turn.

00:34:42.640 --> 00:34:49.320
 And so they will be required to construct a dedicated left turn into the property to

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.960
 address those trips, those trips going inside.

00:34:53.960 --> 00:35:00.360
 They also did an analysis and just to show you kind of where the traffic distribution

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:01.360
 is in the area.

00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.680
 So they kind of anticipated that the traffic would be dispersed throughout the area, McKinney

00:35:06.680 --> 00:35:14.120
 being a secondary arterial with a variety of signalized intersections, and then Paisley,

00:35:14.120 --> 00:35:15.520
 a collector roadway.

00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:21.560
 So they anticipate that that traffic would be dispersed both on Paisley and McKinney

00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:26.000
 to hit those signalized intersections but also to make sure that they address any trips

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.200
 inside with that left turn lane.

00:35:28.200 --> 00:35:29.720
 >> Thank you.

00:35:29.720 --> 00:35:30.720
 >> You bet.

00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:36.920
 Any questions for Julie on this?

00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:50.080
 >> It seems so dense for this little piece of land in a very populated area, 119, it's

00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:53.440
 like 10 units an acre.

00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:04.600
 It's a lot that have in and out McKinney and Paisley the way they would have it.

00:36:04.600 --> 00:36:09.080
 Yeah, I mean I know it's just a rendering, right, that we're looking at.

00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:12.000
 This is not becoming part of anything.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.480
 I assume the drawing that we have -- >> The PD, it is a PD, so --

00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.120
 >> Yeah, so it's just taking, it's just usage once a log is not allowed.

00:36:22.120 --> 00:36:29.960
 >> So they would need to substantially comply with that PD document and the development

00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:30.960
 standards that they've prepared.

00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:35.240
 >> I guess I don't know how else you're putting that many units on that piece of land.

00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:37.120
 This land is for sale, correct?

00:36:37.120 --> 00:36:39.160
 Do we know?

00:36:39.160 --> 00:36:41.280
 >> The applicant will be here, they will probably --

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.280
 >> Believe it is.

00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:44.960
 >> -- be able to answer that.

00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:45.960
 >> Okay.

00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:46.960
 Any other questions?

00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.680
 Yep, Commissioner Pruitt.

00:36:50.680 --> 00:36:55.880
 Not that there's an answer here, but just as we can bring it up in the public meeting

00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.880
 given the density concerns, if there's a way that we could find out what the density of

00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:04.520
 the fountains of Denton immediately adjacent is, just so we kind of understand.

00:37:04.520 --> 00:37:05.520
 >> This is the fountains.

00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:06.520
 I have that.

00:37:06.520 --> 00:37:07.520
 I'll get it for you.

00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:08.520
 >> Great.

00:37:08.520 --> 00:37:09.520
 Thank you.

00:37:09.520 --> 00:37:10.520
 >> Yeah.

00:37:10.520 --> 00:37:11.520
 Thank you.

00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:12.520
 Okay.

00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:13.520
 Thanks, Julie.

00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:14.520
 >> Thank you.

00:37:14.520 --> 00:37:15.520
 >> Move on.

00:37:15.520 --> 00:37:16.520
 Look forward to the full presentation.

00:37:16.520 --> 00:37:23.200
 >> Okay, I think that is our last item on the agenda for our public meeting.

00:37:23.200 --> 00:37:25.040
 We do have a work session.

00:37:25.040 --> 00:37:29.720
 I am guessing that that's going to take a considerable amount of time, that discussion.

00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:33.000
 Can we break super quick, go get your food, otherwise I think you're not going to have

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:35.080
 an opportunity to eat it.

00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:36.720
 So let's do that.

00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:39.440
 We'll go ahead and take a quick recess at 542.

00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:49.640
 Let's just get back here for that discussion as soon as we can.

00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:51.560
 >> Thank you for allowing us that recess.

00:37:51.560 --> 00:37:54.960
 Let's call us back to order at 552 p.m.

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.480
 We've got one work session report left.

00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:01.360
 It is 3APZ24204.

00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:07.440
 Receive a report, hold a discussion, give staff direction regarding amending the proposed

00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:15.480
 land uses in the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan north of FM 1173, west of Highway 35,

00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.600
 south of Ganser, generally east of Mosh Branch.

00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:21.600
 I guess I'll turn it to Cameron.

00:38:21.600 --> 00:38:23.160
 I didn't know if it was you or Tina.

00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:24.720
 >> Actually, I'm going to start this.

00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:25.720
 >> Okay.

00:38:25.720 --> 00:38:26.720
 You got it.

00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:34.120
 >> So this evening we have on your agenda to have a conversation regarding potential

00:38:34.120 --> 00:38:36.920
 change to our future land use map.

00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:44.080
 We have received a zoning petition that is inconsistent with the future land use recommendations.

00:38:44.080 --> 00:38:48.680
 We have to be careful this evening not to discuss the merits of the requested zoning

00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:49.680
 change.

00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:54.040
 We will be able to provide you kind of a high level overview of the uses that are generally

00:38:54.040 --> 00:38:55.040
 being requested.

00:38:55.040 --> 00:39:02.900
 But we wanted to have this discussion first with all of you to see -- to gain some level

00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:07.520
 of consensus as to whether or not we should consider amendments to the future land use

00:39:07.520 --> 00:39:09.480
 map in this area of town.

00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:13.440
 Because what is being requested, as Cameron will walk through with you, is very different

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.320
 than what our future land use recommendations are today.

00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:20.800
 And so therefore have significant implications on our future land use map that truly warrant

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:25.660
 that broader conversation about whether or not we should consider those changes.

00:39:25.660 --> 00:39:30.220
 It also would give the applicant some direction moving forward as to whether or not they need

00:39:30.220 --> 00:39:37.080
 to submit a future land use map amendment, if you will, a comprehensive plan amendment.

00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:40.880
 But also our city manager's office was wanting us to engage in this conversation with the

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.680
 commission and ultimately council and have council weigh in on this before that application

00:39:45.680 --> 00:39:49.360
 if anything is submitted if the application -- or excuse me, if the applicant deems to

00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:50.360
 submit one.

00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:56.720
 So with that -- oh, I guess lastly I would add it's not every day we have this situation

00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:57.720
 arise.

00:39:57.720 --> 00:40:03.600
 And so most of the time when we have a comprehensive plan amendment that is submitted, it is smaller

00:40:03.600 --> 00:40:11.720
 in scale, may not have as significant of an impact on other land planning efforts within

00:40:11.720 --> 00:40:12.720
 the area.

00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:16.880
 And so hence why also we felt it was appropriate to have this work session conversation.

00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.240
 So I'll turn it over to Cameron.

00:40:19.240 --> 00:40:21.360
 >> Thank you, Tina.

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:22.920
 >> Oh, sorry.

00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:24.560
 >> No, go ahead.

00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:25.560
 >> Yep.

00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:26.560
 >> Perfect.

00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:30.400
 So just a quick background before I dive into the options that were sent to y'all earlier

00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:39.560
 this week, 1877 Journey, which is a 501(c)(3), received a donation of approximately 70 acres

00:40:39.560 --> 00:40:44.560
 to develop a micro home community for chronically homeless individuals along FM 1173 near the

00:40:44.560 --> 00:40:46.460
 railroad.

00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:52.600
 It would support -- have support services such as a medical clinic, also have some commercial

00:40:52.600 --> 00:40:57.100
 uses that would help with some skill development as well.

00:40:57.100 --> 00:41:01.880
 The plan development application for this proposed development was submitted in June

00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:03.920
 2024.

00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.400
 The property is located in the Denton City limits.

00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:12.800
 It does have the ETJ to the north and the west of the property.

00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:19.280
 And then has existing light industrial to the south as well as the east and then that

00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.720
 northeast.

00:41:21.720 --> 00:41:25.640
 The proposed uses, as Tina stated, are in conflict with our current and anticipated

00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:27.880
 future land uses.

00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:36.040
 It would necessitate a comprehensive plan amendment as well as a zoning change.

00:41:36.040 --> 00:41:44.940
 So as I stated, because of that significant inconsistency with our future land use map,

00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:48.760
 staff is looking for a broader discussion to occur this evening.

00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:53.440
 First is, is it appropriate to consider changing our future land use map to allow residential

00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.640
 uses in that area?

00:41:55.640 --> 00:42:00.880
 And then if we allow those residential uses, there is broader implications to that surrounding

00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:02.600
 area.

00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:07.360
 The feedback that is needed this evening is whether the commission is supportive of changing

00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.380
 the future land use recommendation for the area of the city and then providing that feedback

00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:17.640
 to city council.

00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:21.940
 So before I jump in to the different options that I'm going to be presenting, there are

00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:23.920
 some things to consider.

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.920
 The first is staff looked at whether it is appropriate to evaluate potential land use

00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:35.920
 changes north of Barthold Road and west of I-35.

00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:41.040
 What's highlighted in the blue is that existing industrial and commercial uses that are developed

00:42:41.040 --> 00:42:46.600
 to the south and the east of that subject property and then Barthold Road as part of

00:42:46.600 --> 00:42:51.200
 the 2022 mobility plan was determined to be a primary arterial.

00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:55.960
 So essentially a regional corridor leading to the city of Crum.

00:42:55.960 --> 00:43:00.280
 If it were appropriate to use residential uses, we'd have to consider the retail and

00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.820
 commercial service uses that are needed for that area.

00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:08.600
 And then in addition to, there are potential economic impacts to the city if the land is

00:43:08.600 --> 00:43:11.720
 converted to residential.

00:43:11.720 --> 00:43:17.680
 Commercial properties usually require more city services and they typically generate

00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:25.080
 less revenue for cities as compared to that industrial use.

00:43:25.080 --> 00:43:30.600
 Some additional considerations are the city also has no land use authority within the

00:43:30.600 --> 00:43:32.120
 city's ETJ.

00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:39.360
 The city can land plan for those certain land uses if they are to annex into the city.

00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:45.340
 The exception is an executed non-annexation agreement, which generally limits the property

00:43:45.340 --> 00:43:52.300
 owners to a single family at five acres or agricultural.

00:43:52.300 --> 00:44:00.240
 In terms of more intensive land use designation, we see that along I-35 and north of FM 1173.

00:44:00.240 --> 00:44:07.240
 In 2022, highlighted in yellow, we did have an annexation of approximately 83 acre parcel,

00:44:07.240 --> 00:44:09.880
 which was rezoned to Light Industrial.

00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:15.600
 And then we also had a 54 acre parcel, which was just south of Barthold Road, rezoned to

00:44:15.600 --> 00:44:17.240
 Light Industrial as well.

00:44:17.240 --> 00:44:23.440
 And then there's existing highway corridor and mixed use regional.

00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:30.320
 And lastly, with the future land use was updated in March 2022, there was a decision to designate

00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.640
 the land west of I-35 as Light Industrial, given feedback during a zoning case that was

00:44:35.640 --> 00:44:45.040
 at city council regarding a trucking business that was looking to rezone east of I-35.

00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:48.440
 So before I jump in, just want to show kind of the existing conditions.

00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:53.640
 You see that industrial south of FM 1173, and you see that existing industrial commercial

00:44:53.640 --> 00:44:56.080
 along the I-35 corridor.

00:44:56.080 --> 00:45:02.600
 And then you have our future land use showing all of that as Light Industrial.

00:45:02.600 --> 00:45:09.780
 So option one, which is sitting in front of y'all on a map, is a low residential community

00:45:09.780 --> 00:45:16.840
 mixed use land use located north of FM 1173, predominantly west of I-35.

00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:23.320
 So I wanted to highlight in terms of CRUM, the city of CRUM, their current land uses

00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:29.920
 do show single family resident north of FM 1173 and then south of FM 1173.

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:36.160
 They're showing that mixed multifamily and retail commercial uses.

00:45:36.160 --> 00:45:42.320
 We're looking at low residential primarily, not only due to the city of CRUM to our east,

00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:48.680
 but also just some of that, the residential use currently as part of that proposed development.

00:45:48.680 --> 00:45:54.960
 Also with it being in the NAA, if they were looking to do a non-annexation agreement,

00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:58.400
 we'd be looking at single family or agricultural.

00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.880
 I wanted to highlight the area in pink here, that 186 acres.

00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.960
 That would be that community mixed use.

00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:13.760
 We need support services to the area if development residential is to develop.

00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:20.880
 But we also have those existing industrial uses along FM 1173 and south of FM 1173.

00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:28.800
 So it would be a lot more visible in that Ganzard Road area.

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.720
 Option two is a mixture of low residential and moderate residential and community mixed

00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:34.120
 use.

00:46:34.120 --> 00:46:42.080
 We're showing that moderate residential along FM 1173 since there would be higher intensity

00:46:42.080 --> 00:46:49.960
 uses within that proposed development, but also would be able to better coexist with

00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.320
 that light industrial use to the south.

00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:58.000
 In addition, it would be that good transition into CRUM where it's showing that multi-family

00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:05.240
 and that retail and commercial kind of at the entrance of that city.

00:47:05.240 --> 00:47:11.440
 And then lastly, we do have that moderate residential showing that full 1,400 acres.

00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:16.520
 And this would, if that NAA were to annex into the city, they would just benefit from

00:47:16.520 --> 00:47:23.360
 a slightly more intense land use in the future.

00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.600
 Option four, there is the option four of just status quo, not changing anything in that

00:47:27.600 --> 00:47:30.320
 future land use map.

00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.440
 In this instance, the best practice would be for the applicant to come forward with

00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:38.860
 their own comprehensive plan amendment, depending on what they feel is the most appropriate

00:47:38.860 --> 00:47:42.040
 land use for that property.

00:47:42.040 --> 00:47:47.880
 And then they would have that zoning request as well.

00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:53.660
 Some next steps in terms of work sessions, if this work session is needing to be continued,

00:47:53.660 --> 00:47:56.840
 it would be continued to Wednesday, November 13th.

00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:05.400
 And then staff is planning to go to the Tuesday, December 3rd city council work session.

00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:08.320
 That's all I have.

00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:13.640
 Question, I guess, where are you going, is it a work session with council as well?

00:48:13.640 --> 00:48:14.640
 Correct.

00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:15.640
 December 3rd?

00:48:15.640 --> 00:48:16.640
 Yes.

00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.640
 Okay.

00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:23.320
 To, I guess, bring forward like our discussion and then to them and get their feedback on

00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:24.320
 it?

00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:25.320
 Yes.

00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:26.320
 Okay.

00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:27.320
 Correct.

00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.400
 We anticipated that city council would probably want to know what your feedback is as a commission.

00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:31.400
 Okay.

00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:37.240
 Other question before, I'll get to it in a second, have you talked to CRUM at all?

00:48:37.240 --> 00:48:43.500
 No, we've been, we have been receiving emails from CRUM, the city of CRUM, some residents

00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:46.400
 who are very concerned about the proposed development.

00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:48.480
 I don't want to run into too much detail about that.

00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:49.480
 No, I know, and we can't do that.

00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:50.480
 I meant the city of CRUM.

00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:51.480
 Not necessarily.

00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:52.480
 No, just residents.

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:53.480
 Okay.

00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:54.480
 Okay.

00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:00.760
 Where would we like to start?

00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:01.760
 Commissioner Pruitt?

00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:04.480
 Just a couple quick factual questions.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:08.760
 I know recently talks with CRUM that, that helps.

00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:16.120
 Was there any communication with CRUM during the 2040 plan update when we coded that all

00:49:16.120 --> 00:49:19.160
 light industrial, sort of some history that would help here?

00:49:19.160 --> 00:49:20.160
 Sure thing.

00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:24.640
 So, no, I do not recall us having any conversations with the city of CRUM.

00:49:24.640 --> 00:49:29.280
 What I do recall though is when we were looking at how best to address the Northwest quadrant

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:35.840
 of the city and designate as industrial, that the fact that there are residents within CRUM

00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.000
 was brought up, I believe it was commissioner, former commissioner Cole, who had raised that

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:40.000
 question.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.400
 And at that time, you know, the consensus was that we would designate the area west

00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.960
 of I-35 as light industrial.

00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.960
 Okay.

00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:51.320
 Thank you.

00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:58.240
 The yeah, I don't want to take up too much time.

00:49:58.240 --> 00:50:03.560
 I'm for the existing flume as is.

00:50:03.560 --> 00:50:10.080
 It seems a little bit like wagging the tail, wagging the dog by its tail.

00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:18.560
 I'm very sensitive to the desire to see a great community and it's sort of a marriage

00:50:18.560 --> 00:50:19.760
 of opportunity.

00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:24.680
 The question is whether that marriage is the right place.

00:50:24.680 --> 00:50:35.320
 Yeah, so, you know, as I look at it, right, I guess a couple questions, I know the comp

00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:45.920
 plan talks in several places about there being, you know, a lot of already agreed to zoned

00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:52.480
 land or planned land for low residential in the MPCs, both Hunter Cole as well as the

00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:59.000
 north of town, and it sort of talks toward the idea that, well, there's a lot there,

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:03.460
 so we may not need a ton more.

00:51:03.460 --> 00:51:10.800
 Is that still staff's conclusion from that or is this coming from, hey, we need a ton

00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.920
 more single family residential land because of XYZ?

00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:17.160
 So that's a great question.

00:51:17.160 --> 00:51:22.680
 You know, when we update the future land use map in the comprehensive plan, you know, we

00:51:22.680 --> 00:51:28.440
 provide a level of analysis included within that, but it's a high level analysis, right?

00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:32.720
 We've talked in the past about how the comprehensive plan is more of that 30,000 foot level policy

00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:39.160
 direction based upon our analysis at that time and what we were designating on the future

00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:41.560
 land use map.

00:51:41.560 --> 00:51:46.040
 We believed that we would have an appropriate amount of land in all likelihood designated

00:51:46.040 --> 00:51:51.200
 for residential uses, but we also know conditions change, right?

00:51:51.200 --> 00:51:55.800
 And so in this case, we have a property owner who's received land that's interested in

00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:04.120
 developing it in a certain manner, and as a result, it has, it could potentially influence

00:52:04.120 --> 00:52:08.680
 other outcomes than associated with the land in the area, and you could have that situation

00:52:08.680 --> 00:52:12.040
 occur any time throughout the city.

00:52:12.040 --> 00:52:15.520
 The other thing I'll add is, you know, state law says that if you're going to rezone property,

00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:18.960
 that you should rezone it in accordance with your comprehensive plan, so that's why we

00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:21.040
 also wanted to have this conversation.

00:52:21.040 --> 00:52:22.040
 Okay.

00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:27.440
 Yeah, so I'll just expand a little bit and then let, I want to hear everybody else, but

00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:36.560
 I think that community mixed use section on your map is about two and a half miles walk

00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:47.520
 from the southern portion of this, so that's pretty far in July.

00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:55.640
 I understand, you know, that we need to be sensitive to our neighbors and comprehend that,

00:52:55.640 --> 00:53:03.440
 but at the same time, my recollection of that past discussion was light industrial, you

00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:11.200
 know, while the buildings are large, the impacts that they have to surrounding areas are less

00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:19.440
 intense than a huge shopping center or high-density residential development, et cetera, et cetera.

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:32.200
 I'm also very keen to agree with the sort of fiscal implications of adding quite a large

00:53:32.200 --> 00:53:46.560
 segment of a type of residential development that other parts of the city have to subsidize,

00:53:46.560 --> 00:53:52.120
 and I'm also nervous about this ETGA thing, and maybe I'll just stop here and if there's

00:53:52.120 --> 00:53:58.440
 any feedback staff has on, I understand functionally that we don't have land use control.

00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:08.960
 What I don't understand, if you can share, is what practical implication the future land

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:13.440
 use designations have in the flume.

00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:18.040
 So for instance, if I'm a developer and I have a piece of land, sorry, not in the flume,

00:54:18.040 --> 00:54:21.200
 in the ETGA.

00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:25.580
 If I'm a developer and I have a piece of land very near the city in the ETGA, say it borders

00:54:25.580 --> 00:54:32.320
 on one side, right, I can go develop that to the county's regulations with our subdivision

00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:37.240
 regulations if it's an ETGA one and be done, right?

00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:43.040
 Or I can talk to the city and say, hey, should I annex to you so that I pay a bunch of taxes

00:54:43.040 --> 00:54:50.040
 and a bunch of impact fees and in return, I have to have risk of going through this process.

00:54:50.040 --> 00:54:59.560
 So I don't really understand where the carrot is for how a particular land use designation

00:54:59.560 --> 00:55:05.360
 within the ETGA helps us achieve what we're actually putting on the map.

00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:07.200
 Does that make sense?

00:55:07.200 --> 00:55:08.360
 Yes.

00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:10.280
 So I believe I understand your question.

00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:15.600
 So we had this, I don't know if you recall, we had this conversation also when we were

00:55:15.600 --> 00:55:19.920
 updating the comprehensive plan because we had the whole conversation regarding how much

00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:25.480
 area do we shade green versus other colors, right, to acknowledge other land uses.

00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:28.360
 But the challenge is, in the ETGA, you're absolutely correct.

00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.320
 We have absolutely no land use authority.

00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.160
 Somebody could come and develop their property as they see fit and they have to comply with

00:55:33.160 --> 00:55:40.760
 our subdivision regulations for ETGA one and then also county standards that might apply.

00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:47.200
 If a property owner were to want to annex into the city, then that's where any shading

00:55:47.200 --> 00:55:53.400
 that we have on the future land use map pertaining to land use is where we engage in that conversation

00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.600
 and say, you know, we are interested in this type of development happening in this area

00:55:57.600 --> 00:56:02.000
 of our community based upon these land use designation categories that we made.

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:05.960
 So they can choose to continue with annexation.

00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:08.600
 They will have a subsequent zoning case that they will file.

00:56:08.600 --> 00:56:13.480
 We would evaluate that zoning case in accordance with the land use recommendations that we

00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:14.900
 have on the map.

00:56:14.900 --> 00:56:18.480
 So that's I mean, that's how that would play out.

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:22.200
 You're welcome.

00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:23.200
 >> That's all for now.

00:56:23.200 --> 00:56:24.200
 Thank you.

00:56:24.200 --> 00:56:25.200
 >> Okay.

00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:26.200
 Okay.

00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:27.200
 Let's go next.

00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:28.200
 Anybody?

00:56:28.200 --> 00:56:29.200
 Mm-hmm.

00:56:29.200 --> 00:56:30.200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

00:56:30.200 --> 00:56:31.200
 >> Thank you, Chair.

00:56:31.200 --> 00:56:34.760
 And I agree with a lot of Vice Chair Pruitt's points here.

00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:36.280
 I, you know, I took a look at this year.

00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:40.880
 I drove down Bartle and talked to some of the property owners there and without getting

00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:46.400
 into details of what's going here, I find it difficult to approve one of these without

00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:49.120
 listening to the applicant first.

00:56:49.120 --> 00:56:54.800
 I'm currently in favor of the current flume, so option four is where I'm at right now.

00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.160
 You know, let them come to us with the proposal, let them discuss why they think it needs to

00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:00.400
 be changed and why it needs to be altered.

00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.560
 I don't want to put the cart before the horse.

00:57:02.560 --> 00:57:03.560
 Is that your metaphor?

00:57:03.560 --> 00:57:06.080
 No, you said wagging the dog by the tail.

00:57:06.080 --> 00:57:07.080
 I don't want to do that.

00:57:07.080 --> 00:57:11.200
 Well, I want to hear the applicant come here first before we make this decision.

00:57:11.200 --> 00:57:20.360
 >> Yeah, I think the difficulty that probably we're all having, because I'm in agreement

00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:26.000
 with Vice Chair Pruitt and Commissioner Villarreal at this point, because we can't really discuss

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:28.600
 what we're supposed to really be discussing.

00:57:28.600 --> 00:57:36.080
 You know, what we're discussing not at all why this is before us and why it would make

00:57:36.080 --> 00:57:40.020
 sense to do option one, two, or three.

00:57:40.020 --> 00:57:44.120
 Option one doesn't even look like it would work for the thing that we're not talking

00:57:44.120 --> 00:57:45.120
 about.

00:57:45.120 --> 00:57:54.720
 So, I -- yeah, I think that's the difficulty here right now is because we're not really

00:57:54.720 --> 00:57:57.040
 discussing anything specific.

00:57:57.040 --> 00:58:03.440
 We're -- you know, the way we've got it, you know, worded on our agenda, I mean, this is

00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:08.880
 what we can discuss, which I understand, but it makes it very difficult to discuss because

00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.440
 we have nothing concrete.

00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:15.520
 We have some ideas of why we're discussing this, but we can't really discuss it.

00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:21.360
 So, we can't really ask questions and true concerns as to how we could make a decision

00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:25.000
 of option one, two, or three.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:34.240
 So, you know, is there any other -- for this applicant that you have before you that we're

00:58:34.240 --> 00:58:41.920
 not discussing, the only of -- their only option would be to come before us with an

00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:47.800
 application for comprehensive plan amendment and a zoning change.

00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:48.800
 Is that correct?

00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:50.200
 There's no other option.

00:58:50.200 --> 00:58:51.200
 Correct.

00:58:51.200 --> 00:58:58.320
 So, they could submit a zoning application without a comprehensive plan amendment, but

00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:02.240
 then we're -- as I mentioned earlier, you know, state law says that if we're going to

00:59:02.240 --> 00:59:05.800
 have zoning, then we should be practicing zoning in accordance or evaluating zoning

00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:07.800
 in accordance with our comprehensive plan.

00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:08.800
 So --

00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.680
 I just want to know if there was another -- if they had another --

00:59:10.680 --> 00:59:11.680
 Right.

00:59:11.680 --> 00:59:12.680
 So, that option is available.

00:59:12.680 --> 00:59:17.480
 You know, the other thing to take into consideration, if I could offer, is, you know, they could

00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:23.080
 come forth with a proposed comprehensive plan amendment and then, depending -- and their

00:59:23.080 --> 00:59:31.520
 zoning case, depending upon how the end result of that is, may then cause the city to have

00:59:31.520 --> 00:59:37.800
 to come back and evaluate its future land use recommendations within this area.

00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:42.400
 Because if the commission and ultimately council determine that residential uses are appropriate

00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:48.200
 within this area, then I would anticipate that we would be having a subsequent conversation.

00:59:48.200 --> 00:59:53.360
 So, we were hoping to be able to at least have this high-level conversation to be able

00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:58.440
 to address whether or not residential uses in general are appropriate.

00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:04.360
 And so, hence why we brought this forth to initiate that conversation.

01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:05.360
 Okay.

01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:10.200
 But we can't really have that conversation, I don't think, because, again, we can't really

01:00:10.200 --> 01:00:17.600
 ask specific things as far as what's before you, and I completely understand that.

01:00:17.600 --> 01:00:22.240
 The thing is, is, you know, the comprehensive plan that we have currently was not just flippantly

01:00:22.240 --> 01:00:23.240
 put together.

01:00:23.240 --> 01:00:28.640
 So, I think if we had thought that low residential would belong there, that probably would have

01:00:28.640 --> 01:00:35.800
 been something that was discussed, and that wasn't even on the radar of when we were discussing

01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:43.760
 the future land use map as we have it, so, again, that's why it's just, like, a lot of

01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:44.760
 these don't make sense.

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.200
 I'm going to let other commissioners talk, yeah, Commissioner Thaggard.

01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:54.000
 Thank you, Chair, and maybe we already reviewed this and I'm sorry if I missed something here.

01:00:54.000 --> 01:01:00.360
 It seems like such, like, an arbitrary, like, little spot in a sea of blue from the original

01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:01.360
 plan.

01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:07.760
 So, can you please explain to me one more time, like, what the impetus was for modifying

01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.920
 the original plan?

01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:13.960
 For modifying the future land use map?

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:14.960
 Yes.

01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:19.660
 So, the property is approximately seven acres, so staff felt that it would have a larger

01:01:19.660 --> 01:01:24.360
 implication if it were to change on the surrounding land uses moving forward, but also due to

01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:29.600
 the fact that it'd be located next to light industrial use.

01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:32.720
 Okay.

01:01:32.720 --> 01:01:40.760
 And the current owner, or is this -- I need to understand this piece of land particularly

01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:41.760
 a little bit better.

01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:42.760
 I think she missed the first part of your presentation.

01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:43.760
 Yeah, read right here.

01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:44.760
 This is what?

01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:45.760
 This is the background.

01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.760
 Okay, sorry.

01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:47.760
 Yep.

01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.760
 Sorry.

01:01:48.760 --> 01:01:53.560
 And this material was also included in the AIS that we provided in your packet, but in

01:01:53.560 --> 01:01:57.960
 short, we have an applicant who has received land that you're interested in developing

01:01:57.960 --> 01:02:03.400
 a micro home community to be able to assist with persons that are experiencing homelessness,

01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:06.920
 also being able to provide those support services and commercial services to be able to help

01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:08.880
 with skill development for those residents.

01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:14.040
 So, as a result of us receiving that application and knowing that it significantly differs from

01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:18.680
 our land use plan recommendations in this area, ultimately, we're going to be having

01:02:18.680 --> 01:02:23.240
 a city council or a conversation with city council about the appropriateness of residential

01:02:23.240 --> 01:02:28.840
 spaces within this area, and we wanted to get the commission's feedback first.

01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:37.880
 Is there any way that we could bring this back and talk about more than just option

01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:38.880
 one, two, and three?

01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:42.000
 Are we allowed to have that discussion, or is that not a discussion that we can have?

01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.000
 I really don't know.

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:51.560
 So, we're posted to discuss -- Exactly what we're doing right now.

01:02:51.560 --> 01:02:52.560
 Yes, correct.

01:02:52.560 --> 01:02:59.680
 I think it's within our -- I'm looking at the caption one more time.

01:02:59.680 --> 01:03:07.240
 Yeah, and I know today we can't, but I guess what I'm asking for is can we restate it at

01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:13.480
 a future work session to include this and possibly be able to discuss the reason that

01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:15.880
 we're actually having this discussion?

01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:21.920
 Basically, how far deep in the details can we get without compromising the public hearing

01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:23.880
 associated with the zoning change?

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:24.880
 Correct.

01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:25.880
 Right.

01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:32.520
 And maybe we can't, and that's why we can't do anything more than what was stated earlier

01:03:32.520 --> 01:03:39.720
 by Vice Chair Prudence, Commissioner Riel, where we would just have to let the applicant

01:03:39.720 --> 01:03:40.720
 come forward.

01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:42.840
 So -- I think that's where we're at.

01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:43.840
 Okay.

01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:44.840
 Okay.

01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:45.840
 Thank you.

01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:46.840
 Commissioner Prudence.

01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:47.840
 Yeah, I'm in agreement as well.

01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:52.320
 I just think that there's just a lot of limited information before making a recommendation

01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:58.080
 on any proposed changes, so I agree to just remain as is under the current law.

01:03:58.080 --> 01:04:04.280
 Commissioner Thagat, I didn't actually get your opinion of options in when you had the

01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:05.280
 floor.

01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:06.280
 Do you -- And I'm very --

01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:11.520
 I don't want to put you on the spot -- I'm very familiar with now that --

01:04:11.520 --> 01:04:12.520
 Yep.

01:04:12.520 --> 01:04:20.160
 -- I definitely think that incorporating -- again, I think we need to have a full picture

01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:21.960
 of what's going on.

01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:28.640
 I feel like not discussing what the families in Crum that are backing up to this piece

01:04:28.640 --> 01:04:33.960
 of property, how they feel about it, because any email that you've gotten, I've heard

01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:36.160
 in conversation.

01:04:36.160 --> 01:04:41.160
 So I just -- I do -- I think that there's -- I think that there's a bigger picture here.

01:04:41.160 --> 01:04:44.800
 We need more -- we need to look at it a little bit deeper.

01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:50.800
 So what they're asking us today is, you're not ready to say we should change the future

01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:52.960
 land use as -- is that correct?

01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:53.960
 Correct.

01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:54.960
 Okay, so --

01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:57.080
 Yeah, I'm with -- I'm with Jordan.

01:04:57.080 --> 01:04:58.080
 Yeah.

01:04:58.080 --> 01:04:59.080
 I'm for option four right now.

01:04:59.080 --> 01:05:00.080
 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:00.080 --> 01:05:09.160
 So I mean, that's where we all are, unfortunately, just because, again, it's -- there's unanswered

01:05:09.160 --> 01:05:14.400
 specific questions that we probably all would want to be able to go forward and say any

01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:19.800
 of these options are good, because honestly, again, you never did we discuss low residential

01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:20.800
 in this area.

01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:21.800
 It doesn't even make sense.

01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:24.800
 You know, I'm not saying -- this doesn't make sense.

01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:30.280
 What we're not talking about, what I'm saying is this, that you've printed for us, doesn't

01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:32.120
 make sense.

01:05:32.120 --> 01:05:39.520
 And it continues to not, you know, again, we would just be, you know, I don't know,

01:05:39.520 --> 01:05:41.240
 you know, what is this?

01:05:41.240 --> 01:05:46.680
 This one is proposed moderate residential, but again, you know, nothing that was ever

01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:52.160
 talked about in detail when we did this future land use, you know, look not that even that

01:05:52.160 --> 01:05:53.160
 long ago.

01:05:53.160 --> 01:05:59.440
 So, yeah, I don't know if that helps, hurts, or what you want to do going forward.

01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:02.640
 I'm going to let you all probably go back to the drawing board and see if there is any

01:06:02.640 --> 01:06:10.400
 way that maybe we could have this conversation again that could help you all help the applicant,

01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:14.200
 because obviously, that's what you're trying to do here, and that makes perfect sense.

01:06:14.200 --> 01:06:17.920
 But I think what you're asking us all to do is an impossible task, and I think that's

01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:26.240
 what just -- was just showed, that you've got a unanimous commission here who cannot

01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:28.760
 move forward with any of these options right now.

01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:33.120
 So if you all can get with legal, if there is a way that we can have another discussion,

01:06:33.120 --> 01:06:37.400
 I think we all would be on board for having another discussion if there are things that

01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:42.960
 we -- you know, if it's worth that, or if we just have to have the applicant move forward.

01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:43.960
 So go back.

01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:49.480
 I was going to say, let us circle back with our legal team and find out if we can have

01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:55.200
 any greater level of detail of conversation and what that might look like, and if we can,

01:06:55.200 --> 01:06:58.920
 then we'll bring it back for the commission's discussion.

01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:04.200
 And then, if not, then we'll move forward so far with the feedback that we have, which

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:08.080
 is very clear that the commission's not comfortable with amending the future land use plan at

01:07:08.080 --> 01:07:12.400
 this time, because you want to see additional information regarding the request.

01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:15.840
 Because the next available option could be that we go ahead and move forward with the

01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:20.000
 applicant processing their zoning case and then also submitting a comprehensive plan amendment

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:25.000
 in considering that option, but we have committed to having the conversation with city council

01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:26.000
 as well.

01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:27.000
 Sure.

01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:28.000
 So we'll figure out what our options are.

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:29.000
 Okay.

01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:30.000
 Great.

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:31.000
 Okay.

01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:32.000
 Thank you very much, Kim.

01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:33.000
 Thank you.

01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:34.000
 We appreciate it.

01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:37.440
 With that, I'll go ahead and adjourn our work session at 621 p.m., and we will reconvene

01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:45.600
 in council chambers as close to 630 as possible.

01:07:45.600 --> 01:07:48.920
 Good evening, and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for

01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:52.320
 Wednesday, October 9th, 2024.

01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:56.740
 For the core and present, I'll call us to order at 635 p.m.

01:07:56.740 --> 01:07:59.720
 Sorry for our tardiness, and thank you for your patience.

01:07:59.720 --> 01:08:03.660
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas Flags.

01:08:03.660 --> 01:08:12.360
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:21.960
 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:33.360
 For the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state, under God, one and indivisible.

01:08:33.360 --> 01:08:35.400
 Right.

01:08:35.400 --> 01:08:41.120
 Our first item of business is consider the approval of our minutes from the September

01:08:41.120 --> 01:08:45.200
 25th meeting.

01:08:45.200 --> 01:08:46.200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:08:46.200 --> 01:08:47.200
 Move approval.

01:08:47.200 --> 01:08:48.200
 Commissioner Pedro.

01:08:48.200 --> 01:08:49.200
 Second.

01:08:49.200 --> 01:08:50.200
 Okay.

01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:52.640
 Any discussion?

01:08:52.640 --> 01:09:00.000
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:02.120
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:09:02.120 --> 01:09:07.360
 That will take us to our consent agenda this evening.

01:09:07.360 --> 01:09:08.360
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:09:08.360 --> 01:09:09.360
 Move approval.

01:09:09.360 --> 01:09:10.360
 Commissioner Thaggard.

01:09:10.360 --> 01:09:11.360
 Approve.

01:09:11.360 --> 01:09:12.360
 Second.

01:09:12.360 --> 01:09:13.360
 Second?

01:09:13.360 --> 01:09:14.360
 Yeah, thank you.

01:09:14.360 --> 01:09:20.440
 We've got a first and a second to approve the consent agenda, so no discussion.

01:09:20.440 --> 01:09:27.080
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

01:09:27.080 --> 01:09:28.560
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:31.360
 That will take us to item for individual consideration.

01:09:31.360 --> 01:09:32.360
 We have 1-2-day.

01:09:32.360 --> 01:09:36.700
 It is 4-A, PP240006.

01:09:36.700 --> 01:09:37.700
 Sean is here for presentation.

01:09:37.700 --> 01:09:38.700
 Hello.

01:09:38.700 --> 01:09:40.700
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

01:09:40.700 --> 01:09:45.440
 Let me just go ahead and get my presentation loaded here.

01:09:45.440 --> 01:09:48.240
 There we go.

01:09:48.240 --> 01:09:49.240
 All right.

01:09:49.240 --> 01:09:50.240
 1-2-4.

01:09:50.240 --> 01:09:51.240
 All right.

01:09:51.240 --> 01:10:00.800
 So this is a preliminary plat, PP240006, the RM2 Denton edition, approximately 363 acre

01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:01.960
 plat.

01:10:01.960 --> 01:10:07.440
 At this time, they do not meet our criteria for approval, so staff is recommending denial,

01:10:07.440 --> 01:10:12.180
 but staff has no objection to request extension, which will be granted to a date certain of

01:10:12.180 --> 01:10:17.800
 October 23rd, 2024, and this is their first request for an extension.

01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:18.800
 Happy to stand for any questions.

01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:19.800
 Thank you.

01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:20.800
 Sean?

01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:21.800
 Questions for Sean?

01:10:21.800 --> 01:10:24.400
 I didn't get an answer in the work session, though.

01:10:24.400 --> 01:10:25.400
 Okay.

01:10:25.400 --> 01:10:26.400
 Thank you very much.

01:10:26.400 --> 01:10:27.400
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:10:27.400 --> 01:10:32.440
 We've approved the extension request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

01:10:32.440 --> 01:10:33.440
 Thank you.

01:10:33.440 --> 01:10:34.440
 Commissioner Thaggard.

01:10:34.440 --> 01:10:35.440
 Second.

01:10:35.440 --> 01:10:39.720
 We have a second to approve the extension request to a date certain of October 23rd,

01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:41.760
 2024 discussion.

01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:43.020
 Okay.

01:10:43.020 --> 01:10:49.040
 Let's vote, please.

01:10:49.040 --> 01:10:50.680
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:58.680
 That will take us to our public hearings today, first being 5AMPA240002.

01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:03.680
 It was listed on the agenda that staff is requesting this item be postponed until the

01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:08.360
 October 23rd P&Z meeting.

01:11:08.360 --> 01:11:17.300
 I will open that public hearing and look to my fellow commissioners for a move to postpone.

01:11:17.300 --> 01:11:18.300
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:11:18.300 --> 01:11:23.520
 We've approved the postponement request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:24.520
 Thank you.

01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:25.520
 Commissioner Perdomo?

01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:26.520
 I second.

01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:27.520
 Okay.

01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:32.400
 With that public hearing left open, we've got a motion on the floor to approve the postponement

01:11:32.400 --> 01:11:35.320
 until a date certain of October 23rd.

01:11:35.320 --> 01:11:36.320
 Any discussion?

01:11:36.320 --> 01:11:37.320
 Okay.

01:11:37.320 --> 01:11:46.200
 Let's vote, please.

01:11:46.200 --> 01:11:47.960
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:54.120
 That will take us to 5B, MPA240004.

01:11:54.120 --> 01:11:57.720
 With similar posting on the agenda, staff is requesting this item be postponed until

01:11:57.720 --> 01:11:59.840
 October 23rd.

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.220
 I will go ahead and open that public hearing.

01:12:03.220 --> 01:12:04.220
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:08.960
 Move approval of the postponement request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:09.960
 Thank you.

01:12:09.960 --> 01:12:10.960
 Commissioner Thaggard?

01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:11.960
 Second.

01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:16.400
 We've got a first and a second to postpone this item to October 23rd with the public

01:12:16.400 --> 01:12:19.280
 hearing being left open on that item.

01:12:19.280 --> 01:12:20.280
 Discussion?

01:12:20.280 --> 01:12:21.280
 Okay.

01:12:21.280 --> 01:12:28.600
 Let's vote, please.

01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:30.280
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:12:30.280 --> 01:12:36.440
 That will take us to 5C, AESA240001.

01:12:36.440 --> 01:12:37.680
 Christy is here for presentation.

01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:40.480
 I will open that public hearing.

01:12:40.480 --> 01:12:44.960
 Thank you, Commissioners.

01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:55.080
 Christy Upton, Environmental Compliance Coordinator, and tonight I will be presenting an alternative

01:12:55.080 --> 01:13:02.440
 ESA plan for Grand Parkside.

01:13:02.440 --> 01:13:08.040
 Alternative ESA plans are a proposal for a mitigation plan for environmentally sensitive

01:13:08.040 --> 01:13:09.040
 areas.

01:13:09.040 --> 01:13:16.040
 When a development is proposing to encroach into or deviate from protection requirements

01:13:16.040 --> 01:13:20.440
 that are listed in the Denton Development Code to protect those environmentally sensitive

01:13:20.440 --> 01:13:27.040
 areas, this is a flexible and discretionary process by which the Commissioners make a

01:13:27.040 --> 01:13:32.960
 recommendation to the City Council for an ordinance that will be adopted approving this

01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:37.640
 plan and adopting it for enactment by the property owner.

01:13:37.640 --> 01:13:43.920
 As you know, the Commission has an opportunity to weigh in and to make any modifications

01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:50.120
 to the recommendations that the staff made tonight.

01:13:50.120 --> 01:13:58.280
 So this particular project will be seeking to modify 1.46 acres of what is referred to

01:13:58.280 --> 01:14:00.720
 as undeveloped floodplain.

01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:08.400
 The resulting floodplain will result in meeting the criteria for approval for drainage and

01:14:08.400 --> 01:14:09.400
 flood control.

01:14:09.400 --> 01:14:17.480
 It will be landscaped using native grasses, flowers, trees, and include one rain garden.

01:14:17.480 --> 01:14:20.400
 And staff is recommending approval.

01:14:20.400 --> 01:14:28.680
 The site is northeast of the intersection of Country Club Road and Hobson Lane, US 377

01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:35.560
 is here in the corner to give you reference of overall the property.

01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:42.840
 The preliminary plot was approved in August, and this is for approximately 19 acres of

01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:46.480
 a residentially zoned property.

01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:55.520
 The resulting development will result in the reconstruction of this area of land that is

01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:59.080
 currently considered undeveloped floodplain.

01:14:59.080 --> 01:15:05.920
 So there's no riparian vegetation, there's really no native vegetation on this land.

01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:15.360
 This was previously a rural use, and this open space, because of the shape of the land,

01:15:15.360 --> 01:15:22.600
 is considered by FEMA to be an approximate location of the 100-year floodplain.

01:15:22.600 --> 01:15:32.560
 This area has been studied since this plan was put together, and that study of the floodplain

01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:38.840
 shows that there's really not a 1% floodplain on the property.

01:15:38.840 --> 01:15:47.320
 Post-construction, this area will have a different drainage pattern than it's shown today.

01:15:47.320 --> 01:15:53.200
 The mitigation plan post the construction of that floodplain will result in floodplain

01:15:53.200 --> 01:15:57.600
 with native grasses, flowering plants, and trees.

01:15:57.600 --> 01:16:05.400
 There will be one rain garden that will be installed on this common area lot near the

01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:10.320
 central east side of the property.

01:16:10.320 --> 01:16:18.760
 Rain gardens are designed to intercept residential runoff and both slow down the water, uptake

01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:29.800
 pollutants, and to further improve ecological services to the area.

01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:37.480
 I want to go over a little bit the conventional design of a residential development's drainage

01:16:37.480 --> 01:16:39.240
 patterns.

01:16:39.240 --> 01:16:49.360
 So in this particular development, the drainage pattern is that it receives flow from a little

01:16:49.360 --> 01:16:55.040
 bit northeast of this rain garden, and then would traverse across the property, enter

01:16:55.040 --> 01:17:03.680
 into a storm drain, and then would be discharged directly into the drainage soil along Hopson

01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:07.600
 Lane.

01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:15.760
 In this mitigation plan, they're proposing to install this rain garden, which is anticipated

01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:19.160
 to help improve the stormwater runoff.

01:17:19.160 --> 01:17:26.320
 One of the issues with residential properties, as all residential properties, there's discharges

01:17:26.320 --> 01:17:32.080
 of pollutants, dog waste in the yard is an example.

01:17:32.080 --> 01:17:39.440
 The bacteria gets picked up by the rainwater and gets discharged directly to the next discharge

01:17:39.440 --> 01:17:41.400
 point.

01:17:41.400 --> 01:17:48.440
 When you install something like these structures, the anticipated result is that it intercepts

01:17:48.440 --> 01:17:56.400
 that flow, and then causes for the rainwater to slow down, get infiltrated through the

01:17:56.400 --> 01:18:04.440
 soils, where the bacteria from that dog waste, we get sequestered into the soils, break down

01:18:04.440 --> 01:18:13.920
 further, and then it's no longer a discharge of concern to the storm drainage system.

01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:20.600
 There were notifications sent to the surrounding property owners, and we did receive, staff

01:18:20.600 --> 01:18:30.040
 received one response from a property owner in favor of the project.

01:18:30.040 --> 01:18:32.200
 This is the staff's recommendations.

01:18:32.200 --> 01:18:36.600
 This is in your backup to kind of give you some highlights.

01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:43.320
 These recommendations are to ensure that the project is completed, as is described in the

01:18:43.320 --> 01:18:53.320
 alternative ESA plan document, that there will be an acceptance period, so a growth

01:18:53.320 --> 01:18:58.720
 period of the vegetation, and then an acceptance by environmental services.

01:18:58.720 --> 01:18:59.720
 I apologize.

01:18:59.720 --> 01:19:07.360
 I did not get a chance to update this slide, but environmental services is proposing requirement

01:19:07.360 --> 01:19:14.680
 of one educational sign on the property.

01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:23.560
 The remainder of this is just the follow-up of ensuring the lifelong maintenance of the

01:19:23.560 --> 01:19:28.560
 rain garden and the other vegetation that's being proposed across the property.

01:19:28.560 --> 01:19:30.520
 With that, I'll take any questions.

01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:32.240
 Thank you, Kristi.

01:19:32.240 --> 01:19:34.360
 Questions for staff?

01:19:34.360 --> 01:19:35.360
 No?

01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:39.120
 I think we probably asked them all at work session.

01:19:39.120 --> 01:19:40.120
 Thank you.

01:19:40.120 --> 01:19:43.080
 The applicant is here if you wanted to ask him any questions.

01:19:43.080 --> 01:19:44.080
 Excellent.

01:19:44.080 --> 01:19:51.520
 Yeah, I was going to say I do have a card from the applicant, Thomas Fletcher.

01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:52.520
 Good evening.

01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:54.560
 Good evening, Chair and commissioners.

01:19:54.560 --> 01:19:59.440
 Thomas Fletcher with Kimley-Horn, 6160 Warren Parkway, Frisco, Texas.

01:19:59.440 --> 01:20:02.720
 I am the applicant for the owners of this tract of land.

01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:06.960
 I did hear that there were some questions regarding the neighborhood outreach, so I did

01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:10.920
 want to get up and talk about that briefly and then see if there were any additional

01:20:10.920 --> 01:20:13.880
 questions that you may have regarding the project.

01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:19.080
 I do want to thank Kristi for her support and help through this process.

01:20:19.080 --> 01:20:25.640
 I know anytime we do the alternate ESA, we're trying to provide benefit that may not be

01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:27.600
 there present today.

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:31.520
 This particular project is undeveloped floodplain ESA.

01:20:31.520 --> 01:20:39.120
 It is currently a pasture or pasture grasses, primarily zoysia, so with the mitigation plan,

01:20:39.120 --> 01:20:44.140
 we are proposing to bring in more native plant material, the rain garden, and provide some

01:20:44.140 --> 01:20:48.400
 ecological benefit that may not necessarily be there today.

01:20:48.400 --> 01:20:54.380
 The owners of this tract of land, Mr. Vanderlaan and Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith actually lives across

01:20:54.380 --> 01:20:59.720
 the street from this tract of land and has good relationships with all the surrounding

01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:01.000
 owners.

01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:04.920
 So when we talked about neighborhood outreach and whether we wanted to do a neighborhood

01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:09.200
 meeting or something like that, because most of the surrounding property owners aren't

01:21:09.200 --> 01:21:14.700
 within an HOA, we decided that we would put a letter together kind of explaining this

01:21:14.700 --> 01:21:20.940
 request along with the exhibit that shows the overall improvements that we are proposing.

01:21:20.940 --> 01:21:22.880
 And I've got a copy of that letter here.

01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:31.240
 I don't know if you want to utilize the screen to look at it or not, but the exhibit that

01:21:31.240 --> 01:21:34.880
 we provided them was the exhibit that's in your package that shows the rain garden and

01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:36.640
 the open areas.

01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:42.320
 Mr. Vanderlaan did reach out to the neighbors individually and had conversations with them.

01:21:42.320 --> 01:21:46.520
 He let them know that if they had any additional questions, they could give me a call and I'd

01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:48.240
 be happy to speak with them.

01:21:48.240 --> 01:21:54.800
 I did receive one call from the neighbor that's directly to the east, Mr. Weingart, and he

01:21:54.800 --> 01:21:59.440
 had some concerns, really just kind of wanted to understand the development, what was being

01:21:59.440 --> 01:22:02.800
 developed, how drainage was being accounted for.

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:04.480
 So I walked him through that process.

01:22:04.480 --> 01:22:11.020
 I let him know that we're, we haven't, well, we're in the process of starting the construction

01:22:11.020 --> 01:22:18.080
 plans and we would do the design through that process and we'll show all the drainage

01:22:18.080 --> 01:22:21.080
 patterns, how we're accounting for offsite runoff.

01:22:21.080 --> 01:22:25.320
 And I let him know that within a few weeks, we should have some additional information

01:22:25.320 --> 01:22:29.720
 and I would give him a call to further answer his questions and meet with him if he would

01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:30.720
 like to meet.

01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:37.680
 But the outreach was done by Mr. Vanderlaan and I did speak with one of the neighbors

01:22:37.680 --> 01:22:41.460
 and didn't get any other requests for additional information.

01:22:41.460 --> 01:22:45.480
 With that, I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding this

01:22:45.480 --> 01:22:46.480
 request.

01:22:46.480 --> 01:22:49.520
 - Thank you, Mr. Fletcher.

01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:50.520
 Any questions?

01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:51.520
 Okay.

01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:52.520
 Thank you.

01:22:52.520 --> 01:22:55.040
 Thanks for being here.

01:22:55.040 --> 01:22:57.480
 Thank you for that explanation as well.

01:22:57.480 --> 01:22:58.480
 Yeah.

01:22:58.480 --> 01:22:59.480
 - Absolutely.

01:22:59.480 --> 01:23:00.480
 - That's great info.

01:23:00.480 --> 01:23:01.480
 - Thank you.

01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:02.480
 Appreciate it.

01:23:02.480 --> 01:23:03.480
 - Okay.

01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:04.480
 This is a public hearing.

01:23:04.480 --> 01:23:07.520
 I don't have any other cards in front of me for this item, but you are welcome to speak

01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:12.080
 and you can fill a card out later if there is anyone else wishing to speak on this.

01:23:12.080 --> 01:23:13.080
 Okay.

01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:17.540
 With that, I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing and open the dance for

01:23:17.540 --> 01:23:22.280
 a motion or discussion.

01:23:22.280 --> 01:23:23.280
 Commissioner Pruitt.

01:23:23.280 --> 01:23:27.200
 - I'll move approval as presented.

01:23:27.200 --> 01:23:29.120
 - Great.

01:23:29.120 --> 01:23:31.560
 I will second that.

01:23:31.560 --> 01:23:34.040
 The first and a second for approval as presented.

01:23:34.040 --> 01:23:35.520
 Is there any discussion?

01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:36.520
 Okay.

01:23:36.520 --> 01:23:47.480
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

01:23:47.480 --> 01:23:49.680
 That motion will carry five, zero.

01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:55.440
 Our next public hearing item is 5D AESA 240002.

01:23:55.440 --> 01:23:57.400
 Go ahead and open that public hearing.

01:23:57.400 --> 01:24:04.040
 Christy's here for presentation of that item.

01:24:04.040 --> 01:24:12.080
 And with your permission, I will summarize some of this a little bit more quickly since

01:24:12.080 --> 01:24:19.280
 there's a lot of similarities between this plan and the previous one.

01:24:19.280 --> 01:24:20.280
 That's okay with everyone?

01:24:20.280 --> 01:24:21.280
 Okay.

01:24:21.280 --> 01:24:24.880
 - Yeah, I think it gets the specifics of this property is certainly, I think, fine with

01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:25.880
 everyone.

01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:26.880
 - Okay.

01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:27.880
 All right.

01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:34.240
 So this particular one is for a property that is called Dentex.

01:24:34.240 --> 01:24:40.160
 This is at the northeast corner of the intersection of John Payne and Johnson Road.

01:24:40.160 --> 01:24:49.080
 And it was a subject of a amended comprehensive plan and zoning case that was approved in

01:24:49.080 --> 01:24:56.240
 August for 52 acres of residential property and 21 acres of commercial residential high

01:24:56.240 --> 01:24:57.560
 density.

01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:02.120
 The alternative ESA plan is really focusing on the residential property.

01:25:02.120 --> 01:25:07.000
 So we will dial in on that.

01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:15.120
 The field assessment, again, we received information supporting that there's no riparian vegetation.

01:25:15.120 --> 01:25:22.600
 This was, for years, has been used as an agricultural use and the floodplain is generally in its

01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:28.640
 natural state, so hence we were regulating it as undeveloped floodplain because it hasn't

01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:34.680
 been modified or filled in in the past.

01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:43.560
 So the mitigation plan is, again, to establish native grasses, flowering plants, trees across

01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:44.560
 the property.

01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:49.920
 I wanted to dial in a little bit on the plant selections here.

01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:56.360
 We carefully discussed plant discussions with this particular property because that spine

01:25:56.360 --> 01:26:03.800
 there is actually a drainage, it's going to be a drainage swale when the construction

01:26:03.800 --> 01:26:05.160
 is finished.

01:26:05.160 --> 01:26:10.920
 And that conveyance of the water through the property, the lowest point in that conveyance

01:26:10.920 --> 01:26:13.760
 will remain moist soils.

01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:21.560
 And so we made sure that the selection of the native grasses and flowering plants is

01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:29.000
 appropriate for the type of soils that are, you know, the final environment that these

01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:33.720
 plants will be growing in.

01:26:33.720 --> 01:26:37.200
 The applicant is also proposing three rain gardens on this property.

01:26:37.200 --> 01:26:43.880
 There will be one at the western corner near the center of the property and this one a

01:26:43.880 --> 01:26:48.920
 little bit northeast of the other two.

01:26:48.920 --> 01:26:54.000
 And that rain garden will follow the same design standards as described in the previous

01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:56.040
 public hearing.

01:26:56.040 --> 01:27:03.600
 Again, notifications were made and staff did not receive any formal responses.

01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:12.440
 We did receive a few inquiries about the project and responded to those in kind.

01:27:12.440 --> 01:27:17.600
 And then the recommendations are very similar to the last public hearing.

01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:27.360
 Here, actually two signs are being requested and other than that, you know, just following

01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:33.880
 through with making sure that the product is installed as described and then that there

01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:38.680
 is a plan for post-construction of the development.

01:27:38.680 --> 01:27:43.560
 And with that, I'll stand for any questions on this one.

01:27:43.560 --> 01:27:44.560
 Great.

01:27:44.560 --> 01:27:45.560
 Thank you, Lucy.

01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:46.560
 Any questions?

01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:47.560
 Commissioner Pruitt?

01:27:47.560 --> 01:27:48.560
 Thank you, Chair.

01:27:48.560 --> 01:28:00.440
 Just one, I noticed that the current, you know, ESA would flow under two of the roadways

01:28:00.440 --> 01:28:04.400
 within the proposed ESA plan.

01:28:04.400 --> 01:28:11.020
 I also noticed that it's on our wildlife corridor plan.

01:28:11.020 --> 01:28:16.820
 Are there, I would assume that there's some sort of culvert under the roads or something

01:28:16.820 --> 01:28:19.600
 for drainage.

01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:27.280
 Are there any best practices that we employ when a road is crossing an area that's on

01:28:27.280 --> 01:28:32.960
 the wildlife mitigation plan to make sure that we're not allowing that infrastructure

01:28:32.960 --> 01:28:34.200
 to cut off that plan?

01:28:34.200 --> 01:28:35.200
 Does that make sense?

01:28:35.200 --> 01:28:37.200
 Yeah, it makes sense.

01:28:37.200 --> 01:28:42.480
 However, there is no conversations being had with the applicants about this at this time

01:28:42.480 --> 01:28:49.480
 because the wildlife corridor concept has not been implemented into a plan.

01:28:49.480 --> 01:28:57.480
 So until there is a plan or a policy set, staff does not have the authority to really

01:28:57.480 --> 01:29:06.000
 go there with the applicants, happy to share any information that we can find and we can

01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:13.560
 ask nicely if they're interested in implementing any of that, but at this time, that's about

01:29:13.560 --> 01:29:14.560
 as far as we can go.

01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:15.560
 Okay.

01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:16.560
 Thank you.

01:29:16.560 --> 01:29:17.560
 Thank you.

01:29:17.560 --> 01:29:19.360
 Anything else for Christie?

01:29:19.360 --> 01:29:20.360
 Okay.

01:29:20.360 --> 01:29:27.640
 I do have another card for Mr. Fletcher, and I will let him come up and speak to this.

01:29:27.640 --> 01:29:28.640
 Good evening.

01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:31.680
 Thomas Fletcher, Kimley Horne, 6160 Warren Parkway.

01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:36.400
 I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you on this project as well.

01:29:36.400 --> 01:29:40.960
 Commissioner Pruitt, just to, I guess, address your question that you had for Christie, those

01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:47.820
 two roadway crossings, due to the amount of flow, there will be multiple barrel box culverts.

01:29:47.820 --> 01:29:51.880
 If I'm not mistaken, we've already gone through and done our downstream assessment, our clomer

01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:54.980
 that has been approved through the city process.

01:29:54.980 --> 01:29:58.360
 I believe they're five by fives, like a triple.

01:29:58.360 --> 01:30:03.640
 So there should be, when you install the box culvert, they're installed at the flow line,

01:30:03.640 --> 01:30:09.320
 so animals moving through that corridor will have the ability, it's not going to be some

01:30:09.320 --> 01:30:16.120
 small pipe that would prevent them from crossing through that area or cause them to go around

01:30:16.120 --> 01:30:19.120
 onto the road to where they could get hit or something like that.

01:30:19.120 --> 01:30:29.320
 So it should be able to adequately allow animals, wildlife to maneuver through that area.

01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:33.720
 As far as the neighborhood meeting, when we went through, this property was under a restrictive

01:30:33.720 --> 01:30:34.720
 covenant.

01:30:34.720 --> 01:30:37.360
 We went through the process to annex and then zone.

01:30:37.360 --> 01:30:45.500
 When we went through zoning, country lakes north, phase five B is what's adjacent to

01:30:45.500 --> 01:30:46.600
 us to the south.

01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:50.120
 It's a relatively newer development.

01:30:50.120 --> 01:30:54.200
 There's a lot of houses in there that are still builder owned.

01:30:54.200 --> 01:30:58.940
 When we did the zoning, what we did is we went through and we took letters and information

01:30:58.940 --> 01:31:05.440
 on the project and kind of hand delivered that, took that around to all the owner occupied

01:31:05.440 --> 01:31:06.600
 houses.

01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:08.600
 So we took a similar approach with this.

01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:12.780
 We prepared a letter, which I have, and then we prepared several exhibits.

01:31:12.780 --> 01:31:19.640
 We showed the ESA exhibit, but we also showed, with our development, we've got a ZCP that's

01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:24.540
 under review right now, and one of the things that we have to look at is there's a street

01:31:24.540 --> 01:31:30.840
 tree requirement, and when you have developments, you, a lot of times because of the number

01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:35.480
 of street trees that are required with driveways and other things that impact your ability

01:31:35.480 --> 01:31:39.360
 to place those street trees, you end up placing them in open spaces.

01:31:39.360 --> 01:31:45.500
 So not only are we doing the ESA mitigation that has the three rain gardens, we're also

01:31:45.500 --> 01:31:50.040
 doing additional tree plantings that are going to be along that corridor.

01:31:50.040 --> 01:31:51.040
 We have the trail.

01:31:51.040 --> 01:31:55.560
 The trail isn't part of the mitigation, but we've been working with the Parks Department,

01:31:55.560 --> 01:32:00.600
 and I know they wanted to have a corridor through here because there's parkland to our,

01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:03.780
 to our east that we're adjacent to.

01:32:03.780 --> 01:32:06.140
 So we had information.

01:32:06.140 --> 01:32:08.000
 I did talk to one homeowner.

01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:09.620
 It was a relatively new homeowner.

01:32:09.620 --> 01:32:13.200
 He was a, on the fire department, I believe in Flower Mound.

01:32:13.200 --> 01:32:17.040
 I don't recall his name, but he called, left me a voicemail.

01:32:17.040 --> 01:32:18.400
 I called him back and we talked.

01:32:18.400 --> 01:32:24.760
 I explained the project to him and answered, I believe I adequately answered all his questions.

01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:28.120
 He appreciated the additional information.

01:32:28.120 --> 01:32:33.240
 That was, actually that was through email correspondence, and I did provide that to

01:32:33.240 --> 01:32:34.720
 the city.

01:32:34.720 --> 01:32:41.120
 So didn't have any other inquiries on the project, but happy to answer any questions

01:32:41.120 --> 01:32:42.120
 that you may have.

01:32:42.120 --> 01:32:44.440
 There are going to be two retention ponds.

01:32:44.440 --> 01:32:45.640
 Those will be wet ponds.

01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:51.280
 So those will also provide a water quality and a habitat benefit to the project also.

01:32:51.280 --> 01:32:54.840
 And appreciate your time tonight and happy to answer any, any questions.

01:32:54.840 --> 01:32:57.320
 Thank you, Mr. Fletcher.

01:32:57.320 --> 01:32:58.840
 Any questions?

01:32:58.840 --> 01:32:59.840
 Yeah.

01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:03.240
 Thank you, and while I have you up there, thank you for that correspondence.

01:33:03.240 --> 01:33:07.240
 It was shared with us and yeah, you went back and forth a few times with this resident and

01:33:07.240 --> 01:33:08.460
 his questions and it was great.

01:33:08.460 --> 01:33:13.640
 It was, yeah, you provided him a lot of information and we couldn't ask for anything more than

01:33:13.640 --> 01:33:14.640
 that.

01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:15.640
 Thank you very much.

01:33:15.640 --> 01:33:16.640
 Absolutely.

01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:17.640
 Thank you for your time.

01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:18.640
 Appreciate it.

01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:19.640
 This is a public hearing.

01:33:19.640 --> 01:33:21.440
 I don't have any other cards on this item.

01:33:21.440 --> 01:33:24.640
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item?

01:33:24.640 --> 01:33:27.000
 Okay.

01:33:27.000 --> 01:33:31.320
 Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and open the floor for a motion

01:33:31.320 --> 01:33:32.320
 or discussion.

01:33:32.320 --> 01:33:33.320
 Commission approved.

01:33:33.320 --> 01:33:34.320
 I'll move approval as presented.

01:33:34.320 --> 01:33:35.320
 Commissioner Fagarin?

01:33:35.320 --> 01:33:36.320
 Second.

01:33:36.320 --> 01:33:37.320
 Okay.

01:33:37.320 --> 01:33:40.920
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

01:33:40.920 --> 01:33:43.080
 Any discussion?

01:33:43.080 --> 01:33:48.800
 Let me just say before we vote, great presentation, Christy, Mr. Fletcher, the information you

01:33:48.800 --> 01:33:56.480
 provided us in the reports were extensive and very detailed and this is always a hard

01:33:56.480 --> 01:34:04.720
 concept to explain and understand and between the two of you, you presented it beautifully

01:34:04.720 --> 01:34:10.960
 and it was easy to understand and so we know exactly what is happening here and what we're

01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:11.960
 voting on.

01:34:11.960 --> 01:34:13.760
 So thank you very much for that.

01:34:13.760 --> 01:34:15.280
 First and a second for approval.

01:34:15.280 --> 01:34:17.240
 Anything else before we vote?

01:34:17.240 --> 01:34:18.240
 Okay.

01:34:18.240 --> 01:34:24.840
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:27.280
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:34:27.280 --> 01:34:33.680
 That will take us to public hearing 5E, Z-240013.

01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:34.880
 Ashley is here for presentation.

01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:36.400
 I will open the public hearing.

01:34:36.400 --> 01:34:41.760
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission.

01:34:41.760 --> 01:34:43.520
 Ashley Eckstead, Associate Planner.

01:34:43.520 --> 01:34:48.600
 This is Z-2413, I-35 RV Supercenter.

01:34:48.600 --> 01:34:53.480
 This is a request to rezone approximately 0.36 acres of land from a general office zoning

01:34:53.480 --> 01:34:56.340
 district to a highway corridor zoning district.

01:34:56.340 --> 01:34:59.920
 This property is currently undeveloped but it will be plotted as part of the existing

01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:02.560
 RV sales use to the south and the east.

01:35:02.560 --> 01:35:07.000
 The purpose of this rezoning is to address the nonconformities on that RV sales use lot

01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:11.880
 and those are nonconforming land use and zoning setback requirements.

01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:16.840
 The future land use is light industrial and light industrial does support associated supporting

01:35:16.840 --> 01:35:21.720
 uses such as retail and the purpose of the HC zoning district is to provide high intensity

01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:25.960
 commercial uses along the city's busiest and most visible thoroughfares and highly visible

01:35:25.960 --> 01:35:30.940
 commercial corridors and this is along I-35E.

01:35:30.940 --> 01:35:32.840
 It does meet the criteria for approval.

01:35:32.840 --> 01:35:36.520
 It's consistent with the goals and policies of the future land use map, the comprehensive

01:35:36.520 --> 01:35:40.320
 plan and it's also consistent with the HC zoning purpose statement.

01:35:40.320 --> 01:35:44.440
 It's not expected to generate adverse impacts and it's not expected to have adverse impacts

01:35:44.440 --> 01:35:47.760
 on surrounding properties.

01:35:47.760 --> 01:35:48.760
 Notification was done.

01:35:48.760 --> 01:35:52.480
 I posted in the newspaper and on the website and the sign was posted on the property.

01:35:52.480 --> 01:35:56.680
 We mailed out notices to everyone within 500 feet and we did not receive any responses

01:35:56.680 --> 01:35:59.600
 in opposition or in favor.

01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:03.360
 Staff does recommend approval as it meets our criteria for approval and I'm happy to

01:36:03.360 --> 01:36:05.520
 answer any questions.

01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:07.120
 Thank you very much Ashley.

01:36:07.120 --> 01:36:08.920
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:09.920
 Thank you Chair.

01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:10.920
 Thank you Ashley.

01:36:10.920 --> 01:36:16.040
 I meant to ask this during the work session but if this isn't approved today would the

01:36:16.040 --> 01:36:22.200
 strip of property remain nonconforming going forward and would they I guess they could

01:36:22.200 --> 01:36:27.080
 still operate on the property line but they couldn't expand past their current?

01:36:27.080 --> 01:36:28.080
 Correct.

01:36:28.080 --> 01:36:32.360
 And we haven't discussed in detail what would happen if this wasn't approved but they could

01:36:32.360 --> 01:36:36.640
 continue nonconforming but since we did make them get the permits for the buildings we

01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:41.740
 didn't want to approve a permit for a building across the property line.

01:36:41.740 --> 01:36:45.200
 So we haven't had detailed discussions yet of what would occur if this weren't to be

01:36:45.200 --> 01:36:46.200
 approved.

01:36:46.200 --> 01:36:47.200
 Gotcha.

01:36:47.200 --> 01:36:48.200
 Thank you.

01:36:48.200 --> 01:36:51.200
 Any other questions for Ashley?

01:36:51.200 --> 01:36:54.320
 Yeah and you said they did oh Commissioner Perot go ahead.

01:36:54.320 --> 01:36:56.720
 Thank you Chair.

01:36:56.720 --> 01:37:01.800
 It may just be the the registration of the lines on GIS but when I went back and looked

01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:11.520
 at this it looks like a parcel either within the same use or just to the south is has a

01:37:11.520 --> 01:37:17.000
 PD with you know something like that is it helped me understand is that attached to the

01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:22.200
 same owner operator or is that a separate parcel and it just looks like it's overlapping

01:37:22.200 --> 01:37:23.200
 the parking lot?

01:37:23.200 --> 01:37:29.480
 So that is part of the same RV sales use and that was a PD from 2007 and it required it

01:37:29.480 --> 01:37:35.360
 was for this RV sales use it required 50 foot pavement in the display areas along 35 and

01:37:35.360 --> 01:37:36.360
 landscaping.

01:37:36.360 --> 01:37:46.680
 Okay so I guess my question with that information is are we setting up a situation where once

01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:51.640
 they do a minor replat we'll still have split zoning within a parcel or is there some reason

01:37:51.640 --> 01:37:58.020
 why that's not a concern here and so we're not asking for a rezoning of that PD in addition

01:37:58.020 --> 01:37:59.020
 to this?

01:37:59.020 --> 01:38:04.240
 So at the time that that when that PD was implemented RV sales wasn't permitted in that

01:38:04.240 --> 01:38:09.360
 zoning district along that portion so it is PDHC now and it's just an overlay for that

01:38:09.360 --> 01:38:17.040
 additional landscaping and pavement so it's really all the same RV sales use and HC zoning

01:38:17.040 --> 01:38:19.880
 so we did not consider rezoning that portion as well.

01:38:19.880 --> 01:38:24.520
 Okay that makes sense thank you.

01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:25.520
 Any other questions?

01:38:25.520 --> 01:38:29.120
 And you did say in work session that their buildings are now up to code and they have

01:38:29.120 --> 01:38:37.920
 their permit to be operating slap on the wrist don't do that.

01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:43.480
 Okay thank you this is a public hearing I don't have any cards in front of me for this item

01:38:43.480 --> 01:38:46.400
 but is there anyone wishing to speak on this item?

01:38:46.400 --> 01:38:52.320
 Okay seeing none I'm gonna go ahead and close that public hearing and open the floor for

01:38:52.320 --> 01:38:58.040
 a motion or discussion.

01:38:58.040 --> 01:39:02.440
 I will go ahead and do it I will move approval of the item as presented.

01:39:02.440 --> 01:39:04.000
 Commissioner Pruitt.

01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:05.000
 Second.

01:39:05.000 --> 01:39:11.120
 We've got a first and a second for approval any discussion on that?

01:39:11.120 --> 01:39:21.600
 Okay let's go ahead and vote please.

01:39:21.600 --> 01:39:26.720
 That motion carries for one.

01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:35.560
 That will move us to our final public hearing item tonight and that is 5F PD 240004.

01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:41.820
 That public hearing was left open from our meeting on September 25th and Julie is here

01:39:41.820 --> 01:39:43.240
 for presentation.

01:39:43.240 --> 01:39:54.480
 Good evening Julie Wyatt let me pull up the presentation.

01:39:54.480 --> 01:40:08.080
 All right good evening I'm presenting to you PD 240004 villages on McKinney.

01:40:08.080 --> 01:40:14.120
 So the request before you is to rezone about 12 acres from R3 to PD6.

01:40:14.120 --> 01:40:20.480
 The intent is to facilitate the development of 119 zero lot line dwellings on about 12

01:40:20.480 --> 01:40:21.480
 acres.

01:40:21.480 --> 01:40:27.760
 The project property is located between McKinney and Paisley spanning that those two streets.

01:40:27.760 --> 01:40:35.280
 It's about 250 feet wide at its narrowest and about 2000 feet long.

01:40:35.280 --> 01:40:40.320
 So it's got an unusual configuration.

01:40:40.320 --> 01:40:50.200
 McKinney East McKinney is a secondary arterial Paisley is a collector road.

01:40:50.200 --> 01:40:54.520
 So before we get too far into the request I want to talk a little bit about the site

01:40:54.520 --> 01:41:00.360
 data because as I just mentioned it is a bit unusual as we talked about in the work session.

01:41:00.360 --> 01:41:05.280
 So I have a map of the property here.

01:41:05.280 --> 01:41:11.360
 Not only is it really long and narrow but it also has a public utility easement running

01:41:11.360 --> 01:41:20.880
 along the east side that's 42 feet wide which narrows the availability for developable area.

01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:28.520
 On the other side of that on the east side of that easement is a drainage channel.

01:41:28.520 --> 01:41:33.240
 You can see what that looks like in this photograph right here.

01:41:33.240 --> 01:41:38.880
 You could see that the overhead power lines as well as that drainage channel.

01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:46.680
 And this photograph just shows kind of from Paisley just how narrow that property is.

01:41:46.680 --> 01:41:51.520
 So the applicant as I mentioned is proposing 119 zero lot line dwellings.

01:41:51.520 --> 01:41:56.400
 They would be platted on individual lots so the use would be really a single family use.

01:41:56.400 --> 01:41:59.920
 It's really those design considerations that are a little different.

01:41:59.920 --> 01:42:05.760
 Each lot as they're proposed or each dwelling would have four parking spaces on each lot

01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:12.980
 plus guest parking, off-street guest parking in the common area centrally located.

01:42:12.980 --> 01:42:18.440
 If you look at the lot configuration here you'll see that the driveway is a little

01:42:18.440 --> 01:42:23.040
 different than what we normally see in front entry driveways.

01:42:23.040 --> 01:42:27.520
 Staff talked to the applicant and we wanted to make sure that we had as much uninterrupted

01:42:27.520 --> 01:42:29.920
 sidewalk as possible along the street.

01:42:29.920 --> 01:42:36.040
 So that's why they skinned up those driveways at the right of way still allowing cars to

01:42:36.040 --> 01:42:42.960
 maneuver in and out but pinching it a little bit so we've got more sidewalk for safe pedestrian

01:42:42.960 --> 01:42:46.560
 passage.

01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:54.040
 As I mentioned the lot is long and we've got that easement along the east side.

01:42:54.040 --> 01:43:00.200
 They did work with our parks department and DME to allow a 10 foot wide trail throughout

01:43:00.200 --> 01:43:06.020
 that utility easement that would be open to the public maintained by the HOA.

01:43:06.020 --> 01:43:10.200
 It would connect to the sidewalk on McKinney and then the sidewalk on Paisley as well as

01:43:10.200 --> 01:43:14.680
 some internal connections to the public sidewalk in the development.

01:43:14.680 --> 01:43:19.340
 They are also proposing to limit the number of stories on the structures to two stories

01:43:19.340 --> 01:43:21.640
 maximum.

01:43:21.640 --> 01:43:26.680
 You'll see on your screen we have what they're intending or what they would like to build

01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:32.640
 in terms of one of the potential elevations.

01:43:32.640 --> 01:43:36.860
 Also because of the narrowness there's a little difference in the street.

01:43:36.860 --> 01:43:42.020
 So as we mentioned this is a PD and in PDs you do get to make some modifications to those

01:43:42.020 --> 01:43:46.740
 minimum standards and in this instance it's related to the street design.

01:43:46.740 --> 01:43:52.520
 So first of all because it is a really long street we did work with the applicant and

01:43:52.520 --> 01:44:00.160
 they are proposing to have three traffic calming devices, speed cushions on the north and south

01:44:00.160 --> 01:44:08.000
 side of the development as well as a traffic circle in the center to make sure people aren't

01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:12.400
 just zooming through that long street.

01:44:12.400 --> 01:44:17.000
 The street section is a little different than what we typically see within the city of Denton

01:44:17.000 --> 01:44:23.180
 so they coordinated with our engineering group to provide a narrower street section.

01:44:23.180 --> 01:44:29.360
 Typically neighborhood streets have a 55 foot wide street section and that accommodates

01:44:29.360 --> 01:44:32.880
 33 feet back of curb to back of curb.

01:44:32.880 --> 01:44:39.600
 They are proposing to 51 feet so that would be 29 feet back of curb to back of curb.

01:44:39.600 --> 01:44:43.640
 As part of that they would have to limit the parking to just one side of the street.

01:44:43.640 --> 01:44:51.440
 That would still leave sufficient room for emergency vehicles as well as cars to maneuver

01:44:51.440 --> 01:44:52.440
 through the site.

01:44:52.440 --> 01:44:57.720
 That was another reason that we worked with them on that off street parking to make sure

01:44:57.720 --> 01:45:03.680
 that there was adequate parking for guests or Amazon delivery, that sort of thing.

01:45:03.680 --> 01:45:11.240
 Also as I mentioned in the work session, they did submit a TIA, it was approved and as part

01:45:11.240 --> 01:45:16.760
 of that they will have to construct a left turn lane into the site onto McKinney to ensure

01:45:16.760 --> 01:45:21.900
 that cars turning into the site get out of those travel lanes and are able to maneuver

01:45:21.900 --> 01:45:25.640
 safely into the property.

01:45:25.640 --> 01:45:30.120
 They submitted a landscape plan and that would be a part of the ordinance if approved.

01:45:30.120 --> 01:45:36.280
 It includes landscape entry features on the south side and the north side to soften the

01:45:36.280 --> 01:45:43.960
 entrance into the development, to add some visual interest and to make it a nice gateway

01:45:43.960 --> 01:45:45.840
 into the development.

01:45:45.840 --> 01:45:51.720
 They're also proposing to modify the landscaping standards on each lot so typically we require

01:45:51.720 --> 01:45:57.480
 a certain number of landscaping in the front yard and backyard as well as a lot tree in

01:45:57.480 --> 01:45:58.880
 the city of Denton.

01:45:58.880 --> 01:46:04.200
 Because of the narrow lots it really wouldn't all fit and we really did try to get that

01:46:04.200 --> 01:46:10.040
 lot tree but we felt like it was probably best just to have street trees.

01:46:10.040 --> 01:46:15.920
 Once again that also calms traffic to have those street trees so they are proposing to

01:46:15.920 --> 01:46:25.080
 have a street tree plus a 10% landscape area in the front yard.

01:46:25.080 --> 01:46:30.360
 They're also proposing plaza area and central space in the central area right here.

01:46:30.360 --> 01:46:35.840
 And the development is proposing 10% open space.

01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:39.760
 So as we analyze this request we first looked at infill.

01:46:39.760 --> 01:46:44.640
 So this lot is one of those lots that sort of remained or it kind of grew all around

01:46:44.640 --> 01:46:50.840
 it but this lot remained and we looked at the comprehensive plan and what it says about

01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:58.720
 infill and the goal LU1 talks about growing compactly that we should in order to achieve

01:46:58.720 --> 01:47:02.800
 sound sustainable growth we should have compact development patterns.

01:47:02.800 --> 01:47:07.260
 This property is located one and a half miles from downtown and about three quarter mile

01:47:07.260 --> 01:47:11.920
 from loop 288 so it's definitely within our heart of our city.

01:47:11.920 --> 01:47:18.240
 It's one of those infill lots so it's consistent with that infill goal of the comprehensive

01:47:18.240 --> 01:47:20.200
 plan.

01:47:20.200 --> 01:47:28.020
 So at the time of development it will kind of close that gap in the neighborhood fabric

01:47:28.020 --> 01:47:31.720
 allowing some of those streets to continue and to have more connectivity through the

01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:33.220
 area.

01:47:33.220 --> 01:47:39.240
 It's also consistent with goal LU3 which is residential products that could be suitable

01:47:39.240 --> 01:47:45.040
 infill in single family neighborhoods and that could include things like town homes, four

01:47:45.040 --> 01:47:50.100
 plexus, du plexus and other types of low to moderate density housing.

01:47:50.100 --> 01:47:54.000
 This is a product type we don't often see in Denton.

01:47:54.000 --> 01:48:00.260
 We talked about it today of the areas where we have developments that are similar to this

01:48:00.260 --> 01:48:05.280
 but I'm not aware that we have anything really exactly like this within the city of Denton.

01:48:05.280 --> 01:48:11.000
 It's more akin to what we see maybe in a town home but this does provide an alternative

01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:16.080
 housing type where someone who wants to own a home but have maybe a smaller lot with less

01:48:16.080 --> 01:48:21.520
 maintenance and maybe not share a wall with their neighbor.

01:48:21.520 --> 01:48:26.440
 It also is consistent with our housing and urban design goals in that it provides that

01:48:26.440 --> 01:48:34.580
 once again that diverse housing stock, those different options for residential development.

01:48:34.580 --> 01:48:39.040
 And it's also consistent with our urban design principles, things like providing that pedestrian

01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:46.920
 safety with the off street trail and the driveways, improving the overall connectivity, having

01:48:46.920 --> 01:48:52.800
 another connection between McKinney and Paisley as well as extending those adjacent neighborhood

01:48:52.800 --> 01:48:53.800
 streets.

01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:59.560
 It is surrounded by those existing established neighborhoods and it also provides that active

01:48:59.560 --> 01:49:04.000
 recreation for residents.

01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:10.600
 But as we've mentioned in other projects and what we talked about in the work session,

01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:13.400
 there are competing interests within the comprehensive plan.

01:49:13.400 --> 01:49:16.480
 There are things that we have to balance.

01:49:16.480 --> 01:49:21.560
 So it conforms to our infill, our housing, our urban design standards but it is not consistent

01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:27.640
 with our future land use map on just broad strokes in that it is low residential and

01:49:27.640 --> 01:49:34.400
 low residential is intended for single family neighborhoods 1 to 5 dwelling units per acre.

01:49:34.400 --> 01:49:40.600
 But it's important to know that the future land use map is that high policy direction.

01:49:40.600 --> 01:49:48.120
 It doesn't necessarily account for specific site characteristics or encumbrances or context.

01:49:48.120 --> 01:49:50.880
 And so it is something that we always look at first.

01:49:50.880 --> 01:49:55.080
 It's one of the first things we look at when we talk about a project.

01:49:55.080 --> 01:49:59.200
 It's a really good reference point for an analysis.

01:49:59.200 --> 01:50:04.520
 But it's not our only consideration because we do have other goals within the comprehensive

01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:08.040
 plan that aren't always encompassed by the future land use.

01:50:08.040 --> 01:50:13.000
 And that's particularly relevant in infill situations.

01:50:13.000 --> 01:50:17.760
 Commissioner Pruitt, you asked about densities at the work session.

01:50:17.760 --> 01:50:21.840
 I just dropped this in because I had a spreadsheet.

01:50:21.840 --> 01:50:25.260
 Looked at the overall densities of the adjacent developments.

01:50:25.260 --> 01:50:32.520
 We have the residential developments along right here.

01:50:32.520 --> 01:50:37.640
 The Maple Leaf Homes, that's a townhome development right along McKinney.

01:50:37.640 --> 01:50:41.240
 The density is consistent with this proposal.

01:50:41.240 --> 01:50:46.160
 The multi-family adjacent to and south of the development, those are a little bit denser.

01:50:46.160 --> 01:50:53.280
 You can see we've got anywhere from 16 to 20 dwelling units per acre.

01:50:53.280 --> 01:50:58.000
 Public outreach was sent out, and this map's a little out of date because I received some

01:50:58.000 --> 01:51:05.000
 letters today, but we right now, I believe, have 12 letters in opposition, and that comes

01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:10.760
 to 12.44% in opposition.

01:51:10.760 --> 01:51:16.840
 Just know that doesn't reach that threshold of 20%, but it is a little different than

01:51:16.840 --> 01:51:18.360
 what you see on your screen.

01:51:18.360 --> 01:51:21.520
 The applicant also had two neighborhood meetings.

01:51:21.520 --> 01:51:23.640
 I was able to attend one.

01:51:23.640 --> 01:51:27.960
 There were concerns about things like traffic, visual impacts, and the applicant is here

01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:32.500
 to be able to speak more about that.

01:51:32.500 --> 01:51:38.080
 So based upon the criteria for approval, staff recommends approval of the request, and I'll

01:51:38.080 --> 01:51:40.280
 be happy to answer any questions.

01:51:40.280 --> 01:51:49.360
 It is scheduled for our city council next week, and as I said, the applicant is here.

01:51:49.360 --> 01:51:50.360
 Thank you, Julie.

01:51:50.360 --> 01:51:51.360
 Commissioner Perot.

01:51:51.360 --> 01:51:52.360
 Yeah, thank you, Chair.

01:51:52.360 --> 01:51:56.560
 Just one, just to make sure I'm doing the math right, and if you want to defer to the

01:51:56.560 --> 01:51:59.400
 applicant, that's fine as well.

01:51:59.400 --> 01:52:06.120
 I believe in our code, the R6-based district allows things like duplexes and fourplexes.

01:52:06.120 --> 01:52:07.720
 Is that correct?

01:52:07.720 --> 01:52:08.720
 It does.

01:52:08.720 --> 01:52:10.900
 It has more residential uses within it.

01:52:10.900 --> 01:52:16.980
 And so I'm just trying to, it sounds like a lot of homes in a smaller area, but I'm

01:52:16.980 --> 01:52:21.680
 trying to think through, well, maybe there are some areas in town where there may be

01:52:21.680 --> 01:52:25.080
 a street or two of duplexes, for instance.

01:52:25.080 --> 01:52:31.880
 And so if that were true, I would think that the lots would be twice as big, right?

01:52:31.880 --> 01:52:35.360
 Because it would have a two-family home on it.

01:52:35.360 --> 01:52:42.640
 And then we would be looking at, instead of 120 lots over 10 acres, it would be like 60

01:52:42.640 --> 01:52:44.400
 lots over 10 acres.

01:52:44.400 --> 01:52:48.780
 And the equivalent lot size, as I was looking at, and I know I'm probably not accounting

01:52:48.780 --> 01:52:52.720
 for streets and everything, but it looks like somewhere between 5,000 and 6,000 square feet

01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:54.120
 would be the effective area.

01:52:54.120 --> 01:52:58.120
 Does that sound roughly within the ballpark?

01:52:58.120 --> 01:53:04.680
 I tried to do that math as well, and you got a lot further than I did, so I can sit down

01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:07.000
 and try to work it out for you.

01:53:07.000 --> 01:53:09.960
 If other commissioners want a specific answer, that would be great.

01:53:09.960 --> 01:53:11.400
 I don't need one.

01:53:11.400 --> 01:53:17.600
 I'm just trying to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly, in that you could think

01:53:17.600 --> 01:53:25.640
 of it as an R6 duplex development, except that we're allowing individual families to

01:53:25.640 --> 01:53:27.600
 own their own home.

01:53:27.600 --> 01:53:31.980
 Is that an accurate statement?

01:53:31.980 --> 01:53:32.980
 Just between, yeah.

01:53:32.980 --> 01:53:33.980
 Yes.

01:53:33.980 --> 01:53:36.840
 I think that's accurate.

01:53:36.840 --> 01:53:42.360
 I'll just say you can own a town home as well.

01:53:42.360 --> 01:53:46.680
 Any other questions for Julie?

01:53:46.680 --> 01:53:47.680
 Thank you.

01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:48.680
 Thank you.

01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:49.680
 But we may.

01:53:49.680 --> 01:53:50.680
 So stay close.

01:53:50.680 --> 01:53:52.800
 I do not have a card from the applicant.

01:53:52.800 --> 01:53:55.620
 Is the applicant wishing to speak, Julie?

01:53:55.620 --> 01:53:57.340
 She has a presentation and then I'll put it up right now.

01:53:57.340 --> 01:54:04.400
 In that case, then I will allow that to happen.

01:54:04.400 --> 01:54:10.800
 Here we go.

01:54:10.800 --> 01:54:19.840
 Hi there.

01:54:19.840 --> 01:54:23.120
 If you'll give us your name, you can begin your presentation.

01:54:23.120 --> 01:54:24.820
 Good evening, commissioners.

01:54:24.820 --> 01:54:28.300
 My name is Rob Dakey and I'm here with my colleague, Alexa Knight, who will also be

01:54:28.300 --> 01:54:31.080
 participating in the presentation this evening.

01:54:31.080 --> 01:54:34.400
 I am a land use attorney and civil engineer in Texas.

01:54:34.400 --> 01:54:47.080
 We work around the state and have been asked to help with this project by our client, OAM

01:54:47.080 --> 01:54:51.200
 Denton.

01:54:51.200 --> 01:54:52.520
 So I won't spend much time on this.

01:54:52.520 --> 01:54:55.120
 I think everyone's familiar with where we're at in space.

01:54:55.120 --> 01:54:59.640
 The one thing I do like about this slide is it shows the mixed orientation of the single

01:54:59.640 --> 01:55:02.600
 family lots that surround the periphery of this project.

01:55:02.600 --> 01:55:12.840
 You'll see a mix of side lots as well as rear yards primarily on the east side of the project.

01:55:12.840 --> 01:55:15.640
 But single family is not the only use of budding this property.

01:55:15.640 --> 01:55:22.920
 We also have a little under half of the western boundary is adjacent to multifamily.

01:55:22.920 --> 01:55:27.840
 One of the things that we feel like is really a pro for this project is it's a very rational

01:55:27.840 --> 01:55:33.520
 step down in land use intensity, moving from the multifamily, which is present on the west,

01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:38.740
 to a more dense single family detached product and then into the traditional detached existing

01:55:38.740 --> 01:55:43.040
 subdivision to the east.

01:55:43.040 --> 01:55:45.920
 As was mentioned, this is currently zoned R3.

01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:49.880
 We're asking to go to PDR 6.

01:55:49.880 --> 01:55:53.440
 And one other point I'll make on this slide is the thing that jumps out when you look

01:55:53.440 --> 01:55:55.280
 at this is the width of the tract.

01:55:55.280 --> 01:56:00.960
 There's 245 feet, very little to work with, and we'll talk a little more on how a significant

01:56:00.960 --> 01:56:07.240
 portion of that's not even usable, which is really what drives an awful lot of this conversation.

01:56:07.240 --> 01:56:08.880
 So we have a constrained site.

01:56:08.880 --> 01:56:11.240
 It's difficult.

01:56:11.240 --> 01:56:13.160
 Someone approaches us and says, "What should we do here?"

01:56:13.160 --> 01:56:15.800
 The first thing we do is look at the comp plan.

01:56:15.800 --> 01:56:20.240
 And as Ms. Wya mentioned, there appears to be a policy preference expressed in the comp

01:56:20.240 --> 01:56:24.840
 plan for a certain amount of density, particularly in infill situations.

01:56:24.840 --> 01:56:28.160
 I think all of us would agree it doesn't make sense to go in and push density everywhere

01:56:28.160 --> 01:56:32.000
 throughout the city, but there are situations where taking a context-sensitive approach

01:56:32.000 --> 01:56:34.120
 that may be the right decision.

01:56:34.120 --> 01:56:38.440
 Our contention is that this is one of those.

01:56:38.440 --> 01:56:41.900
 I think that paragraph on the lower right is really, really powerful, and I almost never

01:56:41.900 --> 01:56:47.120
 read from a slide, but I want to read this because I think it's so on point for our situation.

01:56:47.120 --> 01:56:51.080
 The city should take every opportunity to ensure that gaps in the neighborhood fabric

01:56:51.080 --> 01:56:55.600
 occur in infill development, as the development of vacant or deteriorated properties will

01:56:55.600 --> 01:57:00.320
 be encouraged, complementing the scale and character of each neighborhood.

01:57:00.320 --> 01:57:04.280
 Infill development creates opportunities for more compact forms of development and affordable

01:57:04.280 --> 01:57:09.480
 housing options, types of residential product that could be suitable infill, include single

01:57:09.480 --> 01:57:13.400
 family neighborhoods as well as well-designed townhomes, quad apartments, duplexes, and

01:57:13.400 --> 01:57:15.680
 other types.

01:57:15.680 --> 01:57:20.240
 I think in many respects, what we're proposing is similar to a townhome, but it does provide

01:57:20.240 --> 01:57:21.240
 that detachment.

01:57:21.240 --> 01:57:26.000
 We're finding more and more that there's a market, certainly there's a townhome market.

01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:29.400
 This is a little different in that it gives that little extra privacy that you don't have

01:57:29.400 --> 01:57:38.400
 with a shared wall.

01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:42.280
 My suspicion, I don't know this, but my suspicion is that this three-legged stool that's on

01:57:42.280 --> 01:57:47.320
 this slide really serves as the policy basis for the preference for some level of density

01:57:47.320 --> 01:57:49.800
 in an infill context.

01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:53.800
 While some of that is always driven by geometry, and we certainly have that issue here, we

01:57:53.800 --> 01:57:57.120
 also have the three legs of the fiscal stool.

01:57:57.120 --> 01:58:01.160
 We want stable services, we want low density, we want low taxes.

01:58:01.160 --> 01:58:05.640
 The reality is you get to pick two of those, it's just not a way to pick all three of those.

01:58:05.640 --> 01:58:12.040
 Our contention is that applied responsibly, done with high design standards, this is the

01:58:12.040 --> 01:58:19.680
 right use for this property for all of these reasons.

01:58:19.680 --> 01:58:24.100
 Existing conditions, I mentioned we have 245 feet to work with.

01:58:24.100 --> 01:58:28.700
 Along the eastern border running north-south, we have a concrete drainage channel, as well

01:58:28.700 --> 01:58:32.040
 as high tension DME power lines for safety reasons.

01:58:32.040 --> 01:58:35.860
 There's all kinds of controls and restrictions that go around those lines, which further

01:58:35.860 --> 01:58:40.880
 constrains the developability of the site, and it really crams us into a tough situation.

01:58:40.880 --> 01:58:46.600
 Also, back to the policy question just for one second, you'll note there's been some

01:58:46.600 --> 01:58:49.280
 vandalism in that home in the upper right.

01:58:49.280 --> 01:58:53.720
 I think it's an unfortunate sign of the times, but when we have these kinds of undeveloped

01:58:53.720 --> 01:58:58.400
 parcels with development activity all around them, you have a lot of activity, but you

01:58:58.400 --> 01:59:01.720
 have illicit activity that may take place on that open land.

01:59:01.720 --> 01:59:07.520
 Again, going back to the genesis of some of those policy concerns in the comp plan, I

01:59:07.520 --> 01:59:11.400
 think this is certainly a contributor is trying to impede these types of things from happening.

01:59:11.400 --> 01:59:18.440
 With that, I'm going to turn this over to my colleague, Alexa Knight.

01:59:18.440 --> 01:59:45.000
 Much shorter, Alexa Knight with Day Key Law, 322 West Walnut, Salina, Texas.

01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:48.040
 What we have in front of us is an aerial view.

01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:53.800
 Bird's eye view of the tract and the proposed development that's shown there in the center

01:59:53.800 --> 01:59:56.120
 in the green.

01:59:56.120 --> 02:00:02.960
 As Rob discussed, we have the multifamily, the fountains of Denton to the west of the

02:00:02.960 --> 02:00:03.960
 tract.

02:00:03.960 --> 02:00:07.480
 We have the substation at our front door to the south of the tract.

02:00:07.480 --> 02:00:15.040
 That boarded up home is immediately to the right front of the entry.

02:00:15.040 --> 02:00:18.920
 The R7 zoning is that vacant land that's right there, and then there's the single family

02:00:18.920 --> 02:00:22.240
 on the north, west, and east side of the tract.

02:00:22.240 --> 02:00:26.080
 We have been in the planning process and have not taken this lightly by any means over the

02:00:26.080 --> 02:00:27.080
 past seven months.

02:00:27.080 --> 02:00:29.880
 We've been into the city for the past five months.

02:00:29.880 --> 02:00:34.200
 We've had two neighborhood meetings, as Ms. Wyatt has mentioned.

02:00:34.200 --> 02:00:38.840
 In the very first one, I mentioned to the neighbors who attended, I said, "It's really

02:00:38.840 --> 02:00:42.720
 great that you were members and residents of the city of Denton, because it's great

02:00:42.720 --> 02:00:48.800
 for you, maybe not as much fun for the developer," because the city of Denton really does scrutinize

02:00:48.800 --> 02:00:54.240
 or have the applicant scrutinize their plan when you come through with a PD.

02:00:54.240 --> 02:00:58.880
 It's not just a straight zoning, it's a PD that has a concept plan.

02:00:58.880 --> 02:01:06.280
 Our team has put together a TIA, the drainage analysis, and then also the tree protection

02:01:06.280 --> 02:01:11.560
 plan, all of which the comments have been approved and all associated with this PD.

02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:17.560
 As a result, when we originally came into the city, we did have a town home product

02:01:17.560 --> 02:01:18.760
 on this also.

02:01:18.760 --> 02:01:20.720
 We had a much more broader land use.

02:01:20.720 --> 02:01:24.440
 Since we had the neighborhood meetings, since we've worked with staff, we've paired that

02:01:24.440 --> 02:01:29.200
 back, so it's just a single family detached home product.

02:01:29.200 --> 02:01:34.040
 We felt with the density and the drainage situation that this was more amenable, so

02:01:34.040 --> 02:01:40.000
 we have 119 zero lot line units, not town home units, but this was a slide from our

02:01:40.000 --> 02:01:42.720
 presentation to the neighbors.

02:01:42.720 --> 02:01:46.680
 We've limited the building height to a maximum of two stories within that 40-foot height,

02:01:46.680 --> 02:01:50.080
 which is the same for R3 or R6 zoning.

02:01:50.080 --> 02:01:53.660
 The majority of the lots are 2,000 square feet.

02:01:53.660 --> 02:02:00.720
 We do have some, about 37% of the lots are anywhere from 1850 to 2,000 square feet.

02:02:00.720 --> 02:02:04.880
 That is because while this site looks perfectly rectangular, it's not.

02:02:04.880 --> 02:02:09.160
 It's kind of like this, where there's a pinch point on the south side.

02:02:09.160 --> 02:02:12.400
 If you're going to have more dense product, that's the place to have it, because that's

02:02:12.400 --> 02:02:19.440
 where you have the other zoning categories with the multifamily and R7 zoning.

02:02:19.440 --> 02:02:24.760
 As we talked about also, this just provides the city to provide their community another

02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:26.280
 type of development.

02:02:26.280 --> 02:02:28.240
 Not everybody wants to live in multifamily.

02:02:28.240 --> 02:02:31.400
 Not everybody wants to have a large lot where I have to come home and I've got to mow on

02:02:31.400 --> 02:02:34.920
 the weekends, but yet you want to own your own home.

02:02:34.920 --> 02:02:43.000
 It does provide something that perhaps the city doesn't quite offer at this point.

02:02:43.000 --> 02:02:45.520
 Sometimes this is important to the neighbors that we have this, that the waste management

02:02:45.520 --> 02:02:49.540
 services will be a curbside for the development.

02:02:49.540 --> 02:02:53.280
 This is a slide of rendering of what the front entry would look like.

02:02:53.280 --> 02:02:55.280
 We have well-manned landscaped.

02:02:55.280 --> 02:02:58.080
 Again, this is a benefit of doing a PD.

02:02:58.080 --> 02:03:03.900
 All of these things are already vetted as far as what it's going to look like.

02:03:03.900 --> 02:03:10.380
 This is the land plan that's in your packet, actually, that goes along with the PD.

02:03:10.380 --> 02:03:16.240
 One of the things that we, when we met with the neighbors, there was a lot of discussion

02:03:16.240 --> 02:03:18.800
 about traffic and connection.

02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:24.360
 As you all well know, that when we put together a land plan, we just don't slap a bunch of

02:03:24.360 --> 02:03:25.540
 buildings down on the land.

02:03:25.540 --> 02:03:27.720
 We look at the comp plan first.

02:03:27.720 --> 02:03:31.080
 We look at all the restrictions associated with the tract.

02:03:31.080 --> 02:03:34.640
 We've gone through those, which is the drainage easement on the east.

02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:40.800
 That purple line represents the DME restriction on that major overhead power line that goes

02:03:40.800 --> 02:03:41.800
 through there.

02:03:41.800 --> 02:03:46.240
 We have two existing streets from the neighborhood that stub up to the eastern property line

02:03:46.240 --> 02:03:48.240
 that we must connect to.

02:03:48.240 --> 02:03:51.100
 We have to have right-of-way that comes through the tract.

02:03:51.100 --> 02:03:54.600
 Then on the west side, we also have another power line.

02:03:54.600 --> 02:03:58.320
 While it's not on our property, it affects the development of our property.

02:03:58.320 --> 02:04:03.740
 Initially, when we made application and we met with DME, we asked for a variance to be

02:04:03.740 --> 02:04:07.640
 able to encroach into those easements, and we were denied that.

02:04:07.640 --> 02:04:13.600
 That's why the variances to staff on a more narrow street came through.

02:04:13.600 --> 02:04:21.280
 We do provide in this plan 27.5% open space, single family detached does not have any open

02:04:21.280 --> 02:04:22.280
 space requirement.

02:04:22.280 --> 02:04:28.760
 We do have the additional about 45 spaces of parking, because we've also added parking

02:04:28.760 --> 02:04:34.000
 on the west side of the street in addition to the 20 lots that Julie mentioned.

02:04:34.000 --> 02:04:40.320
 We're continuing the connectivity north and south with that 10-foot trail, and then also

02:04:40.320 --> 02:04:46.240
 along the east McKinney Street on the shared path.

02:04:46.240 --> 02:04:50.680
 This is just a rendering of a cross-section through the tract.

02:04:50.680 --> 02:04:54.440
 This is the least constrained portion, which is along the northern side.

02:04:54.440 --> 02:04:59.400
 When we met with the neighbors, we showed three different cross-sections.

02:04:59.400 --> 02:05:01.400
 It was full disclosure.

02:05:01.400 --> 02:05:05.120
 We talked about the least constrained to the north through the cross-section where the

02:05:05.120 --> 02:05:09.760
 traffic circle is, and then also the most constrained section.

02:05:09.760 --> 02:05:13.440
 One of the important things that we felt for the community and to make it a walkable community

02:05:13.440 --> 02:05:20.080
 is we kept the landscape islands there six-foot wide so we could have those street trees,

02:05:20.080 --> 02:05:28.280
 maintaining a five-foot sidewalk, and then also a 20-foot front yard setback.

02:05:28.280 --> 02:05:33.480
 We've also heard the opposition from some of the neighbors about the potential for overcrowding

02:05:33.480 --> 02:05:34.980
 the schools.

02:05:34.980 --> 02:05:40.200
 One of the great opportunities here is limit urban sprawl.

02:05:40.200 --> 02:05:43.420
 You have this infill tract.

02:05:43.420 --> 02:05:49.200
 If we have a single family zero lot line development, how great would it be to be able to walk your

02:05:49.200 --> 02:05:51.920
 kids to school right around the corner?

02:05:51.920 --> 02:05:57.840
 We looked at the Alexander Elementary School, and they're actually operating at 78 percent

02:05:57.840 --> 02:05:58.840
 capacity.

02:05:58.840 --> 02:06:02.960
 There is capacity there for the school.

02:06:02.960 --> 02:06:04.880
 This is a slide for the TIA.

02:06:04.880 --> 02:06:08.600
 If anybody has specific questions, we have our civil engineer here, and we also have

02:06:08.600 --> 02:06:12.080
 our traffic engineer to answer any specific questions.

02:06:12.080 --> 02:06:14.560
 As I mentioned earlier, we did do a TIA.

02:06:14.560 --> 02:06:19.320
 We barely tipped the requirement actually to do a TIA, but one was done.

02:06:19.320 --> 02:06:27.560
 All the levels of service are to par with the city, and the developer will be constructing

02:06:27.560 --> 02:06:30.120
 a left turn lane into the project.

02:06:30.120 --> 02:06:34.560
 There will be additional pavement that will be built in order to accommodate that.

02:06:34.560 --> 02:06:39.980
 Again, continuing the connectivity, we're dedicating that frontage along East McKinney

02:06:39.980 --> 02:06:48.120
 to be able to accommodate the city's shared path connection, which will connect this track

02:06:48.120 --> 02:06:49.120
 to downtown.

02:06:49.120 --> 02:06:53.640
 Again, a mile and a half, that's perfect to bike, walk.

02:06:53.640 --> 02:06:56.080
 It fits that urban infill.

02:06:56.080 --> 02:07:00.080
 Then we're also providing the connectivity north and south, so if you need to get to

02:07:00.080 --> 02:07:05.140
 the school, that's a great opportunity too.

02:07:05.140 --> 02:07:09.160
 This is an elevation that was part of our packet, just saying that we've upgraded the

02:07:09.160 --> 02:07:15.040
 elevations with the development standards, again, a positive for doing a PD.

02:07:15.040 --> 02:07:16.040
 With that, we're here.

02:07:16.040 --> 02:07:18.440
 The whole team is here for any questions.

02:07:18.440 --> 02:07:19.440
 Thank you.

02:07:19.440 --> 02:07:20.440
 Thank you.

02:07:20.440 --> 02:07:23.080
 Questions at the moment for the applicant?

02:07:23.080 --> 02:07:24.080
 Commissioner Pruitt.

02:07:24.080 --> 02:07:25.080
 Thank you, Chair.

02:07:25.080 --> 02:07:30.680
 It's probably for you since you mentioned the history of your development timeline.

02:07:30.680 --> 02:07:31.680
 Yes.

02:07:31.680 --> 02:07:38.680
 I wonder if you could comment and let us know ... It's no secret that I'm nervous about

02:07:38.680 --> 02:07:42.560
 carving our city up into PDs when it's not necessary.

02:07:42.560 --> 02:07:45.880
 I feel like maybe this one is in order to achieve this product.

02:07:45.880 --> 02:07:46.880
 I'm sorry.

02:07:46.880 --> 02:07:56.280
 I have to translate between developer speak and people speak.

02:07:56.280 --> 02:08:01.780
 Are there any residential zoning districts that we have in our town that would allow

02:08:01.780 --> 02:08:07.400
 you to achieve the price point that you're aiming for for these, or would the minimum

02:08:07.400 --> 02:08:15.500
 lot sizes and open space requirements make it impossible to do that, essentially?

02:08:15.500 --> 02:08:16.500
 That's a good question.

02:08:16.500 --> 02:08:19.800
 That was the very first time we sat down, we looked at the code, we looked at all the

02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:25.320
 different zoning sections, and when we had a pre-application meeting, it didn't fit in

02:08:25.320 --> 02:08:27.000
 a specific box.

02:08:27.000 --> 02:08:31.840
 But I think, again, it's probably a benefit to the neighbors because we had to do the

02:08:31.840 --> 02:08:32.840
 PD.

02:08:32.840 --> 02:08:38.120
 There was so much work that the developer ended up having to pay us to do, and to vet.

02:08:38.120 --> 02:08:43.520
 I feel like every stone has been turned with regard to the drainage and the trees, et cetera.

02:08:43.520 --> 02:08:44.960
 It's actually a benefit, I think.

02:08:44.960 --> 02:08:45.960
 Okay.

02:08:45.960 --> 02:08:46.960
 Thank you.

02:08:46.960 --> 02:08:47.960
 Question.

02:08:47.960 --> 02:08:52.320
 Staff didn't know the answer to this, but you may.

02:08:52.320 --> 02:08:57.800
 Is the lot for sale, or is it under contract, or do you know?

02:08:57.800 --> 02:09:00.720
 The lots will be sold individually.

02:09:00.720 --> 02:09:01.720
 I mean, it's tracked.

02:09:01.720 --> 02:09:02.720
 It is.

02:09:02.720 --> 02:09:03.880
 It's currently owned.

02:09:03.880 --> 02:09:06.480
 It's not under contract by somebody else.

02:09:06.480 --> 02:09:07.480
 Okay.

02:09:07.480 --> 02:09:08.800
 Because it does have a for sale sign on it.

02:09:08.800 --> 02:09:12.040
 Is that a former for sale sign from a while back?

02:09:12.040 --> 02:09:13.040
 Correct.

02:09:13.040 --> 02:09:14.040
 Yes.

02:09:14.040 --> 02:09:15.040
 Yeah.

02:09:15.040 --> 02:09:16.040
 I know.

02:09:16.040 --> 02:09:17.040
 Okay.

02:09:17.040 --> 02:09:18.040
 Okay.

02:09:18.040 --> 02:09:19.040
 Anybody else right now for the applicant?

02:09:19.040 --> 02:09:20.040
 No?

02:09:20.040 --> 02:09:21.040
 Thank you.

02:09:21.040 --> 02:09:22.040
 Thank you.

02:09:22.040 --> 02:09:23.640
 Julie, question.

02:09:23.640 --> 02:09:26.040
 Did you talk to Solid Waste?

02:09:26.040 --> 02:09:28.840
 I know she mentioned that they have curbside.

02:09:28.840 --> 02:09:31.840
 I'm just wondering, have they looked at this?

02:09:31.840 --> 02:09:32.840
 Yes.

02:09:32.840 --> 02:09:33.840
 Solid Waste reviewed it.

02:09:33.840 --> 02:09:39.040
 What kind of truck are they bringing through there?

02:09:39.040 --> 02:09:46.240
 When you look at here, it would be our normal Solid Waste trucks.

02:09:46.240 --> 02:09:47.240
 Okay.

02:09:47.240 --> 02:09:55.240
 With the restriction of the parking to one side, actually, the travel lanes would be

02:09:55.240 --> 02:10:01.520
 a little wider than the 55 feet with parking on both sides.

02:10:01.520 --> 02:10:06.800
 So it really, and that was something that we worked with with FHIR and our transportation

02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:11.560
 folks is to make sure that there was sufficient space for emergency vehicles, Solid Waste,

02:10:11.560 --> 02:10:12.560
 all of those.

02:10:12.560 --> 02:10:13.560
 So, yes.

02:10:13.560 --> 02:10:14.560
 Okay.

02:10:14.560 --> 02:10:15.560
 And I know we did the TIA.

02:10:15.560 --> 02:10:23.800
 You know, there's a significant blind spot on Paisley with regard to, particularly, if

02:10:23.800 --> 02:10:28.000
 you're coming on, I think it's Long Meadow onto Paisley.

02:10:28.000 --> 02:10:37.940
 This particular tract of land juts out forward in front of that, which obviously there's

02:10:37.940 --> 02:10:46.320
 no cars coming there now because it's undeveloped, but obviously there will be.

02:10:46.320 --> 02:10:51.160
 Did anyone discuss that, think about that?

02:10:51.160 --> 02:10:54.240
 Paisley's not gonna have any mitigation, correct?

02:10:54.240 --> 02:10:55.240
 I'm sorry?

02:10:55.240 --> 02:10:57.400
 Paisley's not gonna have any mitigation, correct?

02:10:57.400 --> 02:10:58.400
 Correct.

02:10:58.400 --> 02:10:59.400
 Correct.

02:10:59.400 --> 02:11:00.400
 I'll call the applicant.

02:11:00.400 --> 02:11:01.400
 Sure.

02:11:01.400 --> 02:11:02.400
 Of course.

02:11:02.400 --> 02:11:03.400
 Yeah.

02:11:03.400 --> 02:11:04.400
 Please.

02:11:04.400 --> 02:11:08.200
 Now, Julie, how do I get back to my presentation?

02:11:08.200 --> 02:11:11.800
 Does that help?

02:11:11.800 --> 02:11:12.800
 Okay.

02:11:12.800 --> 02:11:22.560
 I'm gonna just click on one of these.

02:11:22.560 --> 02:11:23.560
 Okay.

02:11:23.560 --> 02:11:24.560
 So...

02:11:24.560 --> 02:11:25.560
 This one.

02:11:25.560 --> 02:11:26.560
 There you go.

02:11:26.560 --> 02:11:27.560
 Okay.

02:11:27.560 --> 02:11:30.920
 So, we did look at the line, our engineers did look at the line of sight, and as you

02:11:30.920 --> 02:11:38.440
 can see here on Paisley, the lots don't start until further back, and so there's tree preservation

02:11:38.440 --> 02:11:39.440
 there.

02:11:39.440 --> 02:11:40.440
 Oh, sure.

02:11:40.440 --> 02:11:45.040
 So, between the tree preservation and the fact that there are no units there, that line

02:11:45.040 --> 02:11:48.160
 of sight is open.

02:11:48.160 --> 02:11:50.040
 As open as it can be.

02:11:50.040 --> 02:11:51.040
 Right.

02:11:51.040 --> 02:11:52.040
 Given the geometry.

02:11:52.040 --> 02:11:53.040
 That's what I'm saying.

02:11:53.040 --> 02:11:54.040
 The topography doesn't change.

02:11:54.040 --> 02:11:55.040
 It still is...

02:11:55.040 --> 02:11:56.040
 Yeah.

02:11:56.040 --> 02:11:57.040
 Correct.

02:11:57.040 --> 02:11:58.680
 I think the people in this development would be fine.

02:11:58.680 --> 02:12:04.480
 It's the people that aren't gonna be able to see this because it's in front of them.

02:12:04.480 --> 02:12:05.480
 Okay.

02:12:05.480 --> 02:12:06.480
 Thank you.

02:12:06.480 --> 02:12:11.200
 Okay, Commissioner Pedrone, question for the applicant or...

02:12:11.200 --> 02:12:12.200
 Either applicant or staff.

02:12:12.200 --> 02:12:13.200
 Okay.

02:12:13.200 --> 02:12:14.200
 Yeah, go ahead.

02:12:14.200 --> 02:12:15.200
 It's regarding the parking.

02:12:15.200 --> 02:12:20.320
 So, if I understand correctly, just so I can visualize it appropriately, parking is recommended

02:12:20.320 --> 02:12:25.200
 to be on one side of the street so travel can move freely on the other sides.

02:12:25.200 --> 02:12:26.200
 Is that correct?

02:12:26.200 --> 02:12:27.200
 Correct.

02:12:27.200 --> 02:12:32.900
 In the event that, you know, that's not respected and parking occurs on both sides, what happens?

02:12:32.900 --> 02:12:40.720
 For, let's say, service vehicles, so emergency services or our city services.

02:12:40.720 --> 02:12:45.520
 I would assume, and Hillary or Tina may want to jump in, but that would be an enforcement

02:12:45.520 --> 02:12:48.160
 issue with the police.

02:12:48.160 --> 02:12:50.840
 Not necessarily with enforcement, but accessibility.

02:12:50.840 --> 02:12:56.440
 So, let's say that parking is on one side of the street and let's say that's not necessarily

02:12:56.440 --> 02:13:00.400
 respected by all the residents and parking occurs on the other side of the street.

02:13:00.400 --> 02:13:08.840
 Does that then limit accessibility to emergency services or city services because of the narrowness?

02:13:08.840 --> 02:13:13.480
 So, in my opinion, no, and the reason being is because the street pavement under this

02:13:13.480 --> 02:13:16.920
 PD is 33 feet in width, or 30...

02:13:16.920 --> 02:13:17.920
 29 feet.

02:13:17.920 --> 02:13:18.920
 29 feet.

02:13:18.920 --> 02:13:19.920
 Okay.

02:13:19.920 --> 02:13:20.920
 So, hold on.

02:13:20.920 --> 02:13:22.920
 Let me redo my math.

02:13:22.920 --> 02:13:23.920
 Right.

02:13:23.920 --> 02:13:29.160
 So, you're still able to maintain at least one travel lane through there if there was

02:13:29.160 --> 02:13:30.520
 two cars parked on either side.

02:13:30.520 --> 02:13:36.280
 So, I assume 29 foot wide pavement width with eight feet being allocated on either side

02:13:36.280 --> 02:13:37.280
 for parking.

02:13:37.280 --> 02:13:38.280
 So, that's 16.

02:13:38.280 --> 02:13:40.600
 So, I came up with 29 minus 16 is 13 feet.

02:13:40.600 --> 02:13:44.880
 So, 13 feet is actually wider than a typical travel lane on a street.

02:13:44.880 --> 02:13:49.720
 So, like in some of our other residential neighborhoods, it's comparable to a fire truck

02:13:49.720 --> 02:13:53.920
 or other solid ways having to maneuver through those neighborhoods.

02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:55.560
 Thanks.

02:13:55.560 --> 02:14:01.360
 Okay, Commissioner Thaggert for the applicant or...

02:14:01.360 --> 02:14:02.360
 Okay.

02:14:02.360 --> 02:14:04.360
 Thank you, Chair.

02:14:04.360 --> 02:14:08.680
 You'd mentioned talking to Alexander Elementary School and saying that they were...

02:14:08.680 --> 02:14:12.520
 At what capacity, again, did they report?

02:14:12.520 --> 02:14:15.520
 I didn't speak with them.

02:14:15.520 --> 02:14:23.440
 I just was online with regard to their 23, 24 data, and they said in there it stated

02:14:23.440 --> 02:14:25.840
 that it was 78%.

02:14:25.840 --> 02:14:26.840
 Okay.

02:14:26.840 --> 02:14:33.480
 I wonder, based on the data that you found, if they considered the substantial budget

02:14:33.480 --> 02:14:38.440
 cuts that have come as a result of ESSER dissolving and them having to pull a lot of professionals

02:14:38.440 --> 02:14:44.200
 out of there, particularly with a lot of the students that are high needs in that area.

02:14:44.200 --> 02:14:49.840
 So, I'm just wondering if 78%, like what that may have been based on, I'd have to look at

02:14:49.840 --> 02:14:55.920
 that data, but I was just wondering because I'm always asking about, as a former principal

02:14:55.920 --> 02:15:01.320
 and teacher, I'm always asking about the schools and what the impact of having that many more

02:15:01.320 --> 02:15:05.480
 children going to that elementary school could look like for those teachers and for that

02:15:05.480 --> 02:15:06.480
 staff.

02:15:06.480 --> 02:15:11.480
 Thank you for answering that.

02:15:11.480 --> 02:15:13.880
 Commissioner Pedro, you have another question?

02:15:13.880 --> 02:15:14.880
 Oh, yeah.

02:15:14.880 --> 02:15:15.880
 Go ahead.

02:15:15.880 --> 02:15:20.320
 Just kind of to add to Commissioner Thaggard's question, there was a comment made about the

02:15:20.320 --> 02:15:27.040
 likelihood of increasing pedestrian traffic to the schools and, I guess, mitigating some

02:15:27.040 --> 02:15:30.040
 of the traffic concerns that the development could bring.

02:15:30.040 --> 02:15:34.100
 Is there any data or have there been studies that have been conducted that says on average

02:15:34.100 --> 02:15:40.640
 how much pedestrian traffic schools or residences in a certain proximity to the schools would

02:15:40.640 --> 02:15:41.640
 generate?

02:15:41.640 --> 02:15:47.960
 So, is it something that we're hoping for or is there data that would support a residential

02:15:47.960 --> 02:15:50.640
 neighborhood this close to the school?

02:15:50.640 --> 02:15:55.520
 There's a likelihood of X amount of percentage of people walking.

02:15:55.520 --> 02:15:57.400
 I'm not aware of any studies.

02:15:57.400 --> 02:16:03.280
 What we do, I try to do with the development and with the review process just to make sure

02:16:03.280 --> 02:16:08.380
 that there's a safe walking route to schools, and so that's really kind of what we were

02:16:08.380 --> 02:16:10.620
 looking at in terms of this project.

02:16:10.620 --> 02:16:16.200
 As far as then what does that translate to, I'm not aware of any.

02:16:16.200 --> 02:16:21.160
 I was going to say I'm not aware of any studies either.

02:16:21.160 --> 02:16:25.400
 To Julie's point, with any single family residential subdivision, we try to ensure that we've had

02:16:25.400 --> 02:16:31.000
 adequate sidewalks that are provided throughout so that if families do want the option to

02:16:31.000 --> 02:16:35.040
 be able to walk to nearby schools, that they're provided a safe opportunity to be able to

02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:37.720
 do so.

02:16:37.720 --> 02:16:45.560
 Seeing no one else wishing to ask questions at the moment, we'll move on with the public

02:16:45.560 --> 02:16:46.560
 hearing.

02:16:46.560 --> 02:17:13.120
 I'm going to start in front of me by George Terry.

02:17:13.120 --> 02:17:14.280
 Hello if you'll state your name.

02:17:14.280 --> 02:17:15.280
 Your time will begin.

02:17:15.280 --> 02:17:16.840
 My name is George Terry.

02:17:16.840 --> 02:17:19.720
 I live at 2308 Eagle Nest.

02:17:19.720 --> 02:17:25.880
 On that map you see a white line with a circle at the end of it in the middle of that property.

02:17:25.880 --> 02:17:30.360
 That's me right next to the property line.

02:17:30.360 --> 02:17:32.800
 I have several questions.

02:17:32.800 --> 02:17:39.200
 One is first and foremost as we talked about a neighborhood hearing, now I'm not saying

02:17:39.200 --> 02:17:45.240
 it didn't take place, but I live right next door to it and I was never notified of it.

02:17:45.240 --> 02:17:48.000
 First I've heard of it is when they mentioned it right here.

02:17:48.000 --> 02:17:50.420
 I'm not saying it did not happen.

02:17:50.420 --> 02:17:55.520
 I'm saying I wasn't notified and that bothers me.

02:17:55.520 --> 02:18:01.000
 Second thing is, and this is my big one, I've got several, but I've got a big one.

02:18:01.000 --> 02:18:10.200
 We had power lines there, the high power transmission lines, which they moved a couple hundred yards

02:18:10.200 --> 02:18:17.840
 east, and they cut telephone poles down and it's just a local telephone line service.

02:18:17.840 --> 02:18:22.060
 Now when we moved in we had no problem with the setback.

02:18:22.060 --> 02:18:24.200
 We couldn't build anything within 40 feet.

02:18:24.200 --> 02:18:31.260
 Well I called today and they said 42.6 inches, but still 40 feet.

02:18:31.260 --> 02:18:36.720
 How far back are these houses going to be from the property line?

02:18:36.720 --> 02:18:42.160
 Now if we're 40 feet on one side and they only, I've been told 10 and I've been told

02:18:42.160 --> 02:18:43.160
 13.

02:18:43.160 --> 02:18:50.400
 Either way, let's go with 15, why are they getting 25 more feet use of their property

02:18:50.400 --> 02:18:51.400
 than we are?

02:18:51.400 --> 02:18:54.080
 It's the same power line.

02:18:54.080 --> 02:19:00.440
 Now I've been up P&Z several times since they've cut it down and because when we moved in we

02:19:00.440 --> 02:19:01.440
 knew it was there.

02:19:01.440 --> 02:19:02.440
 It was no problem.

02:19:02.440 --> 02:19:04.100
 We moved in knowing that.

02:19:04.100 --> 02:19:12.840
 But when they cut it down, I went up there several times to ask for a quick claim.

02:19:12.840 --> 02:19:19.320
 And P&Z staff, including again today, told me all I would be doing is wasting my time,

02:19:19.320 --> 02:19:24.680
 money, and effort because once the city gets the setback they don't give it up.

02:19:24.680 --> 02:19:28.440
 I was told that again today.

02:19:28.440 --> 02:19:32.840
 I don't like the idea that you're preferring these people over us.

02:19:32.840 --> 02:19:36.520
 We've been there for, in my case, 40 years.

02:19:36.520 --> 02:19:41.240
 Now I've had to build everything and I live in the end of cul-de-sac, that's my fault,

02:19:41.240 --> 02:19:46.880
 but the 40 foot takes away a tremendous amount of my property.

02:19:46.880 --> 02:19:54.040
 So when I build a shed or whatever, if you notice everything is 40 feet away.

02:19:54.040 --> 02:19:56.880
 If you go out there and you look right down the line and see all the houses, everything

02:19:56.880 --> 02:20:01.280
 is 40 feet away and they're on a straight line because everybody got as close as they

02:20:01.280 --> 02:20:06.040
 could to that 40 foot and built that way.

02:20:06.040 --> 02:20:08.400
 Don't like that.

02:20:08.400 --> 02:20:13.760
 Next thing is, the street, I know what you're saying, the street's too narrow.

02:20:13.760 --> 02:20:17.940
 You get, and they will park on both sides, are you kidding me?

02:20:17.940 --> 02:20:23.920
 I was a mailman, retired being a mailman, retired other thing.

02:20:23.920 --> 02:20:30.960
 Rarely in a less than, I don't want to say a poor neighborhood.

02:20:30.960 --> 02:20:38.360
 I don't mean it that way, but they will park on both sides.

02:20:38.360 --> 02:20:41.040
 We never had one that didn't do that.

02:20:41.040 --> 02:20:48.840
 Now in the high rent areas where you got 200 foot lots, we didn't have that problem, but

02:20:48.840 --> 02:20:54.760
 in this small stuff, they park on both sides of the street and you're not going to tell

02:20:54.760 --> 02:21:00.120
 me that they're going to be able to get a trash truck or whatever through there because

02:21:00.120 --> 02:21:03.840
 people don't park right next to the curb.

02:21:03.840 --> 02:21:06.120
 Quite often they'll come out a foot or two.

02:21:06.120 --> 02:21:07.720
 That takes up that much more space.

02:21:07.720 --> 02:21:10.080
 I just don't see that being feasible.

02:21:10.080 --> 02:21:12.280
 Next thing is density.

02:21:12.280 --> 02:21:18.740
 If you look, I believe all the traditional houses there have like three and a half or

02:21:18.740 --> 02:21:26.520
 something, I saw it up there a minute ago, whereas they're asking for what on this density

02:21:26.520 --> 02:21:27.520
 per?

02:21:27.520 --> 02:21:28.520
 What's the density that they're asking?

02:21:28.520 --> 02:21:31.560
 The correct density per acre I think is about 10.

02:21:31.560 --> 02:21:32.560
 10.

02:21:32.560 --> 02:21:33.560
 Okay.

02:21:33.560 --> 02:21:34.560
 Totally different than what we're there.

02:21:34.560 --> 02:21:36.800
 Now you talk about the apartment and that's true.

02:21:36.800 --> 02:21:39.480
 That's the front part of their property.

02:21:39.480 --> 02:21:44.920
 They got it open on the other side where it hasn't been developed, but for the back half,

02:21:44.920 --> 02:21:53.400
 more than half in fact, you've got families been there for a long time and when the apartments

02:21:53.400 --> 02:21:59.360
 went in, we agreed to it because they agreed to do two things, one they stayed 40 foot

02:21:59.360 --> 02:22:01.400
 back from the fence line.

02:22:01.400 --> 02:22:03.920
 That was agreement made to put those apartments in.

02:22:03.920 --> 02:22:10.200
 Second thing they did is they made sure that there was no windows facing the houses upstairs.

02:22:10.200 --> 02:22:13.880
 I'm going to ask you to finish up, just because your time is in it, I'm going to ask you to

02:22:13.880 --> 02:22:14.880
 wrap up.

02:22:14.880 --> 02:22:15.880
 Your point, go ahead.

02:22:15.880 --> 02:22:21.300
 Well, I saw a picture there that there are going to be windows on the back.

02:22:21.300 --> 02:22:25.560
 The apartments didn't do that and they agreed to be 40 feet away.

02:22:25.560 --> 02:22:33.420
 By the way, the walk into school is a disaster now.

02:22:33.420 --> 02:22:38.120
 Our fences are constantly being knocked down because the kids don't want to walk all the

02:22:38.120 --> 02:22:39.120
 way around.

02:22:39.120 --> 02:22:44.600
 You'd literally knock the fence down, make holes in it and go through as a shortcut going

02:22:44.600 --> 02:22:45.600
 to school.

02:22:45.600 --> 02:22:53.360
 Do you really think adding 130, 116 families is going to cut down on that?

02:22:53.360 --> 02:22:59.460
 They're not going to walk all the way around, would you?

02:22:59.460 --> 02:23:00.460
 Thank you.

02:23:00.460 --> 02:23:01.460
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

02:23:01.460 --> 02:23:10.520
 I will ask, I guess the applicant this question, how was the neighborhood meeting advertised?

02:23:10.520 --> 02:23:17.000
 We were given all the names and addresses for the 200 and 500 foot notification and

02:23:17.000 --> 02:23:20.800
 the mailing was sent out, mailed it.

02:23:20.800 --> 02:23:25.520
 He should have gotten one, he's definitely, he's right there in the middle.

02:23:25.520 --> 02:23:26.800
 Thank you.

02:23:26.800 --> 02:23:31.960
 I don't have any other cards in front of me wishing to speak, but this is a public hearing,

02:23:31.960 --> 02:23:36.200
 so please feel free to do so and you can fill one out later.

02:23:36.200 --> 02:23:40.080
 Mr. Lee, you know the drill.

02:23:40.080 --> 02:23:41.080
 Yes.

02:23:41.080 --> 02:23:42.080
 My name is Charles Lee.

02:23:42.080 --> 02:23:43.600
 I'm going to just keep it short.

02:23:43.600 --> 02:23:50.520
 I mean, it's a tough sell because of the geometry and I just feel like you guys are just trying

02:23:50.520 --> 02:23:53.320
 to put a square peg in a round hole.

02:23:53.320 --> 02:23:59.160
 Maybe just like not all land just can be developed because it is, you're trying to pack a lot

02:23:59.160 --> 02:24:05.320
 of people in and a long narrow piece of property and I get the developer's point of view, if

02:24:05.320 --> 02:24:12.160
 you cut down on density, it just might not be profitable just to build anything there.

02:24:12.160 --> 02:24:17.780
 So maybe it's just not meant to be to be developed and maybe it's just better just put a nice

02:24:17.780 --> 02:24:19.840
 park in there with some trees.

02:24:19.840 --> 02:24:25.920
 The city does have eminent domain powers and you could just take it over and just build

02:24:25.920 --> 02:24:30.640
 a nice park out of it, put some trees in there, a walking park and that's pretty much all

02:24:30.640 --> 02:24:32.080
 I have to say.

02:24:32.080 --> 02:24:34.280
 Thank you, Mr. Lee.

02:24:34.280 --> 02:24:35.920
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

02:24:35.920 --> 02:24:36.920
 Yep.

02:24:36.920 --> 02:24:37.920
 Yep.

02:24:37.920 --> 02:24:38.920
 Come on down.

02:24:38.920 --> 02:24:42.000
 Just state your name and your time will begin and you can fill out a card afterward.

02:24:42.000 --> 02:24:43.000
 Hi.

02:24:43.000 --> 02:24:44.000
 Hi.

02:24:44.000 --> 02:24:45.000
 My name's Patricia Wood.

02:24:45.000 --> 02:24:46.000
 I live on Paisley Street just down.

02:24:46.000 --> 02:24:48.400
 I actually have your card now wishing to speak but please go right ahead.

02:24:48.400 --> 02:24:49.400
 Okay.

02:24:49.400 --> 02:24:50.400
 Thank you.

02:24:50.400 --> 02:24:54.280
 I agree with both the first, especially the speaker that spoke first.

02:24:54.280 --> 02:24:56.040
 That's going to be a huge problem.

02:24:56.040 --> 02:25:00.080
 He's very much correct on how people park.

02:25:00.080 --> 02:25:05.640
 I just want to add to what he said, there's a lot of working people in our neighborhoods.

02:25:05.640 --> 02:25:11.120
 There's a lot of construction equipment, a lot of trailers, things like that and that

02:25:11.120 --> 02:25:13.800
 takes a lot of room on the streets.

02:25:13.800 --> 02:25:15.920
 I'm very concerned about that.

02:25:15.920 --> 02:25:22.580
 I'm just right on the edge of that 200 yard whatever so I had no idea on the public meetings

02:25:22.580 --> 02:25:23.580
 or anything.

02:25:23.580 --> 02:25:29.800
 I think they need to include a lot more neighbors because it impacts us down the street as well.

02:25:29.800 --> 02:25:34.200
 The school is horrendous as far as traffic.

02:25:34.200 --> 02:25:37.800
 I got off work early yesterday at three o'clock right when school let out.

02:25:37.800 --> 02:25:41.440
 I sat there for 15 minutes and couldn't get through on Paisley.

02:25:41.440 --> 02:25:46.680
 So we're adding another 116 houses with how many kids now?

02:25:46.680 --> 02:25:49.360
 I don't even think they're going to be able to get in their neighborhood to get home.

02:25:49.360 --> 02:25:52.660
 They are around that time of day.

02:25:52.660 --> 02:25:56.080
 Another thing I hear is restriction on space.

02:25:56.080 --> 02:26:03.320
 I've heard it multiple times from all these people, no room for trees, no room for, you

02:26:03.320 --> 02:26:09.080
 got concerns about garbage people picking up, the mail people, emergency equipment.

02:26:09.080 --> 02:26:12.640
 Your numbers match but I don't see that happening.

02:26:12.640 --> 02:26:19.040
 I would suggest, I love the idea of these single family smaller homes.

02:26:19.040 --> 02:26:25.020
 I love that idea of mobile housing but I think why don't you put the houses on one side,

02:26:25.020 --> 02:26:28.480
 make the street wider, have a nice walking path, you got your drainage, you don't have

02:26:28.480 --> 02:26:29.820
 to worry about that.

02:26:29.820 --> 02:26:30.820
 Call it a day.

02:26:30.820 --> 02:26:34.320
 I know it's less money for these folks but I think you need to consider the people who

02:26:34.320 --> 02:26:38.440
 have been there 30, 40, 50 years and there's a lot of us there.

02:26:38.440 --> 02:26:39.440
 Thank you.

02:26:39.440 --> 02:26:43.880
 >> Thank you for sharing your thoughts, appreciate it.

02:26:43.880 --> 02:27:00.120
 Next card I have is Barbara Whitson, hello, if you'll state your name your time will begin.

02:27:00.120 --> 02:27:07.680
 >> Barbara Whitson and the address I'm talking about is 2605 East McKinney Street, it's right

02:27:07.680 --> 02:27:16.560
 next door on McKinney Street on the other side of the culvert and they want to put 119

02:27:16.560 --> 02:27:23.800
 units next to it, two story and that would be a solid wall next to my property and I

02:27:23.800 --> 02:27:30.840
 do not want and I'm opposing it and also whenever you put 119 units there, that's going to be

02:27:30.840 --> 02:27:41.800
 at least 238 vehicles that's been going either McKinney Street or Audre Lane and they want

02:27:41.800 --> 02:27:46.680
 to go in and knock down all the trees and we plant them and how long does it take for

02:27:46.680 --> 02:27:49.240
 the trees to grow?

02:27:49.240 --> 02:27:59.000
 Many years and we've already restricted to two days a week for water and now they want

02:27:59.000 --> 02:28:10.480
 to put a lot more houses all over Denton and I don't see an end to it but anyway, I'm opposing

02:28:10.480 --> 02:28:16.760
 to it being built next door to my property.

02:28:16.760 --> 02:28:17.760
 Thank you.

02:28:17.760 --> 02:28:24.600
 >> Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

02:28:24.600 --> 02:28:34.360
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item, come on down.

02:28:34.360 --> 02:28:36.600
 Hi there, if you'll give us your name, your time will begin.

02:28:36.600 --> 02:28:38.480
 >> Hi, I'm Matt Meraki.

02:28:38.480 --> 02:28:39.960
 >> You can bring that up if you'd like to.

02:28:39.960 --> 02:28:40.960
 >> Appreciate it.

02:28:40.960 --> 02:28:42.880
 Thank you guys for your time today.

02:28:42.880 --> 02:28:47.200
 I live over on 2416 Long Meadow, I know we kind of talked a little bit about Long Meadow

02:28:47.200 --> 02:28:51.320
 right there being next to Paisley, I talked to a few of my neighbors and I took a couple

02:28:51.320 --> 02:28:54.920
 of notes just from what they wanted to say, they couldn't make it tonight, so I just wanted

02:28:54.920 --> 02:28:55.920
 to bring it up.

02:28:55.920 --> 02:29:02.240
 One of the biggest things that they're worried about is the 119 units there, are they going

02:29:02.240 --> 02:29:04.900
 to be used for rentals or short term rentals?

02:29:04.900 --> 02:29:07.500
 Is that something that could possibly come in the future?

02:29:07.500 --> 02:29:11.360
 Nothing against single family homeowners, I think that they're just a different breed.

02:29:11.360 --> 02:29:16.120
 I think that whenever you get renters, especially around the colleges and everything, they treat

02:29:16.120 --> 02:29:17.720
 the properties differently.

02:29:17.720 --> 02:29:22.080
 We're talking about those narrow roads as well and saying how there's a rule that they're

02:29:22.080 --> 02:29:27.520
 going to park on one side, but I do definitely feel like that will be broken as well.

02:29:27.520 --> 02:29:31.520
 That just kind of leads to the main point, some people are bringing up with traffic concerns

02:29:31.520 --> 02:29:32.520
 and safety.

02:29:32.520 --> 02:29:36.960
 The increase in vehicles just from the 119 additional houses is just going to cause local

02:29:36.960 --> 02:29:43.360
 streets, not just Long Meadow, not just the road that they're building, but mainly Paisley

02:29:43.360 --> 02:29:45.120
 and McKinney.

02:29:45.120 --> 02:29:50.160
 We're looking at two roads that are just one single lane each and just both side traffic.

02:29:50.160 --> 02:29:56.680
 I know there's talking about building that left lane to go into this development as well.

02:29:56.680 --> 02:30:00.800
 Will that be considering widening the street on McKinney as well because it just doesn't

02:30:00.800 --> 02:30:02.920
 seem feasible?

02:30:02.920 --> 02:30:05.320
 We have so much traffic coming from 288.

02:30:05.320 --> 02:30:07.700
 We have so much traffic trying to get to the highway.

02:30:07.700 --> 02:30:11.840
 We have people going on Woodrow coming from Chapel, just trying to get over to back to

02:30:11.840 --> 02:30:14.680
 their homes and it's already congested.

02:30:14.680 --> 02:30:18.360
 I'll talk about the school as well, people were very concerned about just the safety

02:30:18.360 --> 02:30:19.360
 over there.

02:30:19.360 --> 02:30:24.560
 Two, three o'clock every day, traffic goes right in front of my house just for the car

02:30:24.560 --> 02:30:25.640
 lines.

02:30:25.640 --> 02:30:30.080
 The overflow goes into the neighborhoods right above in the streets right above because people

02:30:30.080 --> 02:30:33.760
 just park their cars and let their kids walk straight to the cars there, so they're just

02:30:33.760 --> 02:30:37.280
 constantly going across the streets and everything.

02:30:37.280 --> 02:30:42.800
 The idea of having a road straight from McKinney to Paisley into these homes, we've already

02:30:42.800 --> 02:30:46.720
 had people this past year, just homeless, whether it be somebody and they're talking

02:30:46.720 --> 02:30:51.560
 about the vandalism of that house on that side there that's kind of run down.

02:30:51.560 --> 02:30:55.280
 People are a little worried that is that going to come to our neighborhoods as easier access?

02:30:55.280 --> 02:30:59.520
 That was just one thing brought up.

02:30:59.520 --> 02:31:03.480
 Infrastructure was just something else people were talking about too, just water, electricity,

02:31:03.480 --> 02:31:07.880
 everything, utilities over there with 119, trash, pickup, fire trucks, everything over

02:31:07.880 --> 02:31:17.240
 there is already in place, is that something that we can maintain with the additional units?

02:31:17.240 --> 02:31:22.600
 A lot of people around me were worried about the environmental right there, the birds.

02:31:22.600 --> 02:31:25.000
 There's a lot of natural birds around there.

02:31:25.000 --> 02:31:27.560
 They've made nests, there's wildlife over there.

02:31:27.560 --> 02:31:30.800
 They're just wondering how this is going to impact that and if there's been an environmental

02:31:30.800 --> 02:31:34.600
 study done or anything about that, how this is going to impact it.

02:31:34.600 --> 02:31:40.160
 Then lastly, it's just to the community.

02:31:40.160 --> 02:31:43.760
 Our neighborhood right here, it's quiet.

02:31:43.760 --> 02:31:46.280
 It's nice having that elementary school right there.

02:31:46.280 --> 02:31:48.000
 They just put up that new playground.

02:31:48.000 --> 02:31:50.960
 Everyone loves to go there and just hang out after work and everything.

02:31:50.960 --> 02:31:57.320
 It's really nice and quiet and having these extra 119 units kind of brings up some worries.

02:31:57.320 --> 02:31:58.320
 What's that going to be like?

02:31:58.320 --> 02:32:01.300
 Just even with development, how much traffic is that going to be?

02:32:01.300 --> 02:32:03.080
 What's the noise going to be like?

02:32:03.080 --> 02:32:07.840
 While they're building everything, how hard do you have these heavy utility vehicles in

02:32:07.840 --> 02:32:09.800
 the area?

02:32:09.800 --> 02:32:14.780
 A couple of the concerns brought up and then I think ... Oh yeah, I already said this,

02:32:14.780 --> 02:32:22.000
 but the rentals, they're just wondering just as a solution, is a moratorium allowed?

02:32:22.000 --> 02:32:25.760
 Is there some sort of situation where you could say, "Hey, you purchased this property.

02:32:25.760 --> 02:32:31.200
 You have to live there for six months to a year or two years and there can't be short-term

02:32:31.200 --> 02:32:35.840
 rentals like Airbnbs," or something like that, because I mean, Den's becoming this great

02:32:35.840 --> 02:32:36.840
 tourist place.

02:32:36.840 --> 02:32:38.920
 I mean, we're having so many things here now.

02:32:38.920 --> 02:32:43.560
 We're getting a lot of people coming in from out of town, but it's the neighborhood there

02:32:43.560 --> 02:32:47.720
 and it being impacted by people coming from out.

02:32:47.720 --> 02:32:49.680
 Thank you guys.

02:32:49.680 --> 02:32:52.280
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

02:32:52.280 --> 02:32:57.440
 Yeah, I guess just to address those, I mean, short-term rentals would certainly be something

02:32:57.440 --> 02:32:58.440
 that would be allowed.

02:32:58.440 --> 02:33:09.320
 I think I saw that actually in the PD and there would be nothing restricting these units,

02:33:09.320 --> 02:33:14.720
 these garden homes, for I guess lack of a better word, I'm not zero lot line homes,

02:33:14.720 --> 02:33:15.720
 from being rentals, right?

02:33:15.720 --> 02:33:20.720
 They can be, I mean, there's going to be no HOA in place that is going to restrict that,

02:33:20.720 --> 02:33:22.960
 I don't think to my knowledge.

02:33:22.960 --> 02:33:30.360
 And certainly we as a city can't restrict if somebody can rent their property or not.

02:33:30.360 --> 02:33:31.960
 I don't have any other cards in front of me.

02:33:31.960 --> 02:33:37.080
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item who has not already?

02:33:37.080 --> 02:33:45.840
 Okay, seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and I will open the floor

02:33:45.840 --> 02:33:48.040
 for a motion or discussion.

02:33:48.040 --> 02:33:54.240
 I'm going to look at my notes in the meantime.

02:33:54.240 --> 02:33:55.240
 Commissioner Villareal.

02:33:55.240 --> 02:33:56.920
 Thank you, Chair.

02:33:56.920 --> 02:33:59.120
 Really appreciate the presentation.

02:33:59.120 --> 02:34:04.280
 Due to the fact that it does not conform with the future land use map and concerns regarding

02:34:04.280 --> 02:34:10.960
 traffic and the neighboring folks here in the community, I'm going to move to deny this

02:34:10.960 --> 02:34:11.960
 application.

02:34:11.960 --> 02:34:12.960
 Okay.

02:34:12.960 --> 02:34:16.640
 We have a motion on the floor to deny.

02:34:16.640 --> 02:34:20.840
 Do we have a second?

02:34:20.840 --> 02:34:21.840
 All Commissioner Prud'homme?

02:34:21.840 --> 02:34:22.840
 I second.

02:34:22.840 --> 02:34:23.840
 Okay.

02:34:23.840 --> 02:34:28.760
 We've got a first and a second to deny discussion.

02:34:28.760 --> 02:34:29.760
 Commissioner Prud'homme is on the floor.

02:34:29.760 --> 02:34:30.760
 Thank you, Chair.

02:34:30.760 --> 02:34:36.280
 A couple, a couple of questions, I think for staff, these are more just general planning

02:34:36.280 --> 02:34:37.280
 questions.

02:34:37.280 --> 02:34:42.240
 I heard a lot of concerns from the community about, I think Commissioner Villareal summed

02:34:42.240 --> 02:34:48.960
 it up about traffic and safety and that sort of thing.

02:34:48.960 --> 02:34:58.640
 If we look at sort of a even apples to oranges measurement of a future where this as proposed

02:34:58.640 --> 02:35:06.960
 gets built versus a future where an additional, call it 120 students are enrolled in Alexander

02:35:06.960 --> 02:35:13.000
 Elementary, but they're living further away, which one would you anticipate to create more

02:35:13.000 --> 02:35:19.120
 traffic and more of a burden to the community?

02:35:19.120 --> 02:35:26.520
 Well, the comprehensive plan talks about Infill as being something that the city desires because

02:35:26.520 --> 02:35:35.960
 it is already served by existing roadways, utility, schools, services, it also puts residents

02:35:35.960 --> 02:35:42.560
 closer to where we have those facilities and services, so it's something that the comprehensive

02:35:42.560 --> 02:35:50.160
 plan talks about as a more desired way to grow.

02:35:50.160 --> 02:35:57.840
 In terms of specifically, I don't know if I could predict how any individual resident

02:35:57.840 --> 02:36:02.840
 would behave in terms of driving their kid to school versus walking.

02:36:02.840 --> 02:36:09.840
 Once again, it is something that we do try to always look at with a development and a

02:36:09.840 --> 02:36:18.760
 proposal as to how it connects to those existing sidewalks, pedestrian areas, and you know,

02:36:18.760 --> 02:36:24.280
 for instance, the utility easement, whenever we have one in a development, we always try

02:36:24.280 --> 02:36:29.120
 to get a trail through it because it does allow more direct access through those linear

02:36:29.120 --> 02:36:30.120
 corridors.

02:36:30.120 --> 02:36:35.560
 So as far as specifically, I don't think I can answer it, but generally, you know, Infill

02:36:35.560 --> 02:36:40.440
 situations are something that the comprehensive plan looks favorably upon.

02:36:40.440 --> 02:36:47.040
 And then just a procedural question, if this body were to deny this application, I guess

02:36:47.040 --> 02:36:51.520
 that would be a recommendation of denial, and then if city council also denied it, then

02:36:51.520 --> 02:36:55.600
 that would trigger the, is it a one-year or two-year clock before they can come back with

02:36:55.600 --> 02:36:57.880
 a plan that's substantially different?

02:36:57.880 --> 02:37:03.040
 One year, unless, yes, unless it's substantially different.

02:37:03.040 --> 02:37:04.040
 Okay.

02:37:04.040 --> 02:37:05.040
 Thank you.

02:37:05.040 --> 02:37:12.000
 Yeah, I'll just say, you know, everybody needs to vote how they feel led.

02:37:12.000 --> 02:37:17.280
 I just want, my concern is that we all understand what the trade-offs are.

02:37:17.280 --> 02:37:24.280
 And so the trade-offs to saying no to this are basically saying that we don't want homes

02:37:24.280 --> 02:37:26.440
 at this price point in this neighborhood.

02:37:26.440 --> 02:37:28.560
 And so the question is, well, why?

02:37:28.560 --> 02:37:31.480
 And if not here, where?

02:37:31.480 --> 02:37:36.560
 You know, there already are homes just northwest of Alexander, sort of on Mack Place, Mack

02:37:36.560 --> 02:37:44.040
 Drive, that little half-circle area that are 35-foot wide lots.

02:37:44.040 --> 02:37:45.400
 They're technically R4.

02:37:45.400 --> 02:37:52.840
 They're not conforming, but to me, the density here and the feel of the neighborhood is not

02:37:52.840 --> 02:37:58.480
 wildly different, and it'll give more people an opportunity at home ownership.

02:37:58.480 --> 02:38:00.560
 So thank you.

02:38:00.560 --> 02:38:01.840
 Thank you.

02:38:01.840 --> 02:38:03.720
 The motion on the floor is to deny.

02:38:03.720 --> 02:38:05.760
 Is there any other discussion?

02:38:05.760 --> 02:38:11.640
 Yeah, I'll just say a few words.

02:38:11.640 --> 02:38:14.320
 I'm not against infill development.

02:38:14.320 --> 02:38:19.760
 I think this piece of property is super difficult, the way it's configured.

02:38:19.760 --> 02:38:28.560
 I think density feels different depending on how the lot is laid out, and it sure seems

02:38:28.560 --> 02:38:32.920
 like we are just trying to force this in there, because what have we done?

02:38:32.920 --> 02:38:37.840
 We're making up different setbacks that we don't have for other people.

02:38:37.840 --> 02:38:45.480
 We are having a use that we don't even have described, I don't think, right now in our

02:38:45.480 --> 02:38:46.480
 development code.

02:38:46.480 --> 02:38:51.200
 So I'm all for trying to make things work, but to me, it's just trying to force this

02:38:51.200 --> 02:38:56.400
 in there, and effectively, we're changing the zoning on this.

02:38:56.400 --> 02:39:02.720
 That's what this request is, is a PDR6 zoning.

02:39:02.720 --> 02:39:04.380
 There could be less density here.

02:39:04.380 --> 02:39:07.000
 It's not going to be as profitable for the landowner.

02:39:07.000 --> 02:39:10.920
 That's the bottom line for it, unfortunately.

02:39:10.920 --> 02:39:16.520
 I'm not against houses going in here.

02:39:16.520 --> 02:39:18.660
 The walkability factor is good.

02:39:18.660 --> 02:39:28.960
 It's trying to cram 119 units into this oddly shaped lot to be able to cram 119 units in.

02:39:28.960 --> 02:39:32.520
 I don't even know how these people are going to maneuver on a busy timeframe when trying

02:39:32.520 --> 02:39:35.920
 to go to work, how they're getting in and out of here.

02:39:35.920 --> 02:39:41.480
 Truly, you've got a straight line, you're either going out to Paisley or you're going

02:39:41.480 --> 02:39:46.520
 out to McKinney, neither of which is ideal at certain times of day for making any kind

02:39:46.520 --> 02:39:48.640
 of move right or left.

02:39:48.640 --> 02:39:49.960
 We don't have traffic lights.

02:39:49.960 --> 02:39:52.480
 We've got site constraints on Paisley.

02:39:52.480 --> 02:39:53.760
 I mean, drive that.

02:39:53.760 --> 02:39:55.920
 That is a site constraint now.

02:39:55.920 --> 02:40:02.360
 If you're on Long Meadow, you're basically kind of like, "Okay, I think I can go."

02:40:02.360 --> 02:40:04.520
 This is just adding more to that.

02:40:04.520 --> 02:40:08.480
 Again, I'm not against infill.

02:40:08.480 --> 02:40:13.420
 I'm not against trying to put some residential here.

02:40:13.420 --> 02:40:18.140
 This feels extremely forced to me.

02:40:18.140 --> 02:40:25.500
 With what we've heard and what we know and what we can see as proposed, it's not anything

02:40:25.500 --> 02:40:28.640
 I can get behind as it's presented.

02:40:28.640 --> 02:40:29.640
 Commissioner Villarreal.

02:40:29.640 --> 02:40:30.640
 Thank you, Chair.

02:40:30.640 --> 02:40:36.200
 Just to echo some of those points, yeah, fully support the creation of more townhome neighborhoods.

02:40:36.200 --> 02:40:42.480
 I live in a townhome in the villages of Carmel, very much love my townhome, but our goal is

02:40:42.480 --> 02:40:45.280
 to not maximize the profits for each parcel.

02:40:45.280 --> 02:40:50.480
 Our goal is to make sure it conforms with the current use of the land, it conforms with

02:40:50.480 --> 02:40:52.880
 the future land use map.

02:40:52.880 --> 02:40:57.680
 This just doesn't do that, so with that, I really do think this plan just doesn't make

02:40:57.680 --> 02:40:58.680
 sense for the area.

02:40:58.680 --> 02:40:59.680
 Thanks.

02:40:59.680 --> 02:41:02.960
 Thank you, Commissioner Perdo.

02:41:02.960 --> 02:41:07.480
 Just to provide some additional context with my thoughts, I agree.

02:41:07.480 --> 02:41:11.120
 There are elements of this proposal that I think are really exciting and refreshing.

02:41:11.120 --> 02:41:17.600
 There are opportunities for homeownership that may not exist currently, because it's

02:41:17.600 --> 02:41:21.520
 difficult for many of our residents to achieve.

02:41:21.520 --> 02:41:24.320
 I like that this is brought forth.

02:41:24.320 --> 02:41:27.080
 I like some of the elements of this proposal.

02:41:27.080 --> 02:41:33.360
 It's just, I agree with Chair Ellis, I think it's just too much, given the context of the

02:41:33.360 --> 02:41:35.520
 size.

02:41:35.520 --> 02:41:42.400
 Okay, and just speak one other point that I forgot.

02:41:42.400 --> 02:41:48.800
 The dream of homeownership, obviously, is something that many people strive for.

02:41:48.800 --> 02:41:54.440
 The issue with this is, most likely at the price point it would be, it would be inviting

02:41:54.440 --> 02:42:01.140
 an immense amount of investors in our town that has a lot of rental need because of our

02:42:01.140 --> 02:42:05.440
 universities.

02:42:05.440 --> 02:42:10.640
 There's nothing to say that that would be 119 single family homeowners who are going

02:42:10.640 --> 02:42:14.160
 to reside there, unfortunately.

02:42:14.160 --> 02:42:17.440
 Okay, there is a motion on the floor to deny.

02:42:17.440 --> 02:42:19.440
 Is there any further discussion?

02:42:19.440 --> 02:42:30.080
 Okay, let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

02:42:30.080 --> 02:42:34.760
 That motion will carry 4-1.

02:42:34.760 --> 02:42:38.080
 That will take us to our planning and zoning matrix.

02:42:38.080 --> 02:42:50.680
 I will turn that over to Tina.

02:42:50.680 --> 02:42:54.000
 I was counting commissioners to make sure we saw the court.

02:42:54.000 --> 02:42:56.360
 Oh yeah, we sure did.

02:42:56.360 --> 02:42:59.360
 Let's see.

02:42:59.360 --> 02:43:04.520
 Two weeks ago, when I gave the matrix report, I shared with the commission that we would

02:43:04.520 --> 02:43:10.560
 be doing a report on multifamily housing counts, properties that are entitled, versus units

02:43:10.560 --> 02:43:13.280
 under construction, what have you, that's taken us a little longer to pull that data

02:43:13.280 --> 02:43:15.720
 together.

02:43:15.720 --> 02:43:20.160
 We were anticipating later this month that your August 23rd, or excuse me, October 23rd,

02:43:20.160 --> 02:43:23.720
 not August, but in all likelihood that's going to be November, so just wanted to give you

02:43:23.720 --> 02:43:27.280
 an update on that.

02:43:27.280 --> 02:43:31.840
 There's no city council actions to report since their last meeting in terms of zoning

02:43:31.840 --> 02:43:33.680
 and development cases.

02:43:33.680 --> 02:43:35.280
 There was a new commissioner appointed.

02:43:35.280 --> 02:43:39.800
 Unfortunately, she was not able to join us this evening, but Commissioner Lillian Prado

02:43:39.800 --> 02:43:45.120
 Carrillo is going to be joining the commission as well.

02:43:45.120 --> 02:43:48.480
 That concludes my report.

02:43:48.480 --> 02:43:50.600
 Thank you.

02:43:50.600 --> 02:43:52.480
 Anything to add to the matrix?

02:43:52.480 --> 02:43:54.160
 Commissioner Pruitt.

02:43:54.160 --> 02:43:55.160
 Thank you, Chair.

02:43:55.160 --> 02:43:56.160
 Two things.

02:43:56.160 --> 02:44:01.160
 First one, brief, I'll just throw it on there.

02:44:01.160 --> 02:44:09.960
 If perhaps council does approve this application next week, then I think we need sort of an

02:44:09.960 --> 02:44:13.940
 update on the mobility plan in this area of town.

02:44:13.940 --> 02:44:24.120
 There's a lot of things going on, be it the concrete trail grant award, the approval from

02:44:24.120 --> 02:44:30.160
 the bond, and actually I think it was some city funds and trip funds for the sidewalk

02:44:30.160 --> 02:44:32.240
 along McKinney.

02:44:32.240 --> 02:44:40.400
 I'd like to see a method, again, contingent on this going forward through council, to

02:44:40.400 --> 02:44:48.320
 extend that trail connectivity across McKinney Street down toward the concrete trail, specifically

02:44:48.320 --> 02:44:53.260
 just let's plan it before we sink a bunch of capital money into it and then have to

02:44:53.260 --> 02:44:59.240
 rip it up and redo it to achieve that, if that makes sense.

02:44:59.240 --> 02:45:09.120
 And then secondly, I think given some of our discussions at our work session today, I would

02:45:09.120 --> 02:45:23.160
 like to see a broader discussion about how sort of communal living or those types of

02:45:23.160 --> 02:45:31.720
 solutions with small homes could be achieved.

02:45:31.720 --> 02:45:38.480
 My research into this is that that was basically punted during the 2019 code development, and

02:45:38.480 --> 02:45:45.400
 I'm sure Commissioner Ellis could give me more details, but it was a sticky wicket,

02:45:45.400 --> 02:45:52.520
 and so we just said, okay, well, if we do this, it has to be a PD.

02:45:52.520 --> 02:46:04.160
 I think there's various concerns about where communities of lower income allowing people

02:46:04.160 --> 02:46:11.600
 to get up and transition from hard times should go or shouldn't go, but ultimately unless

02:46:11.600 --> 02:46:19.280
 we set forward some clear development regulations of this is what it has to be and this is how

02:46:19.280 --> 02:46:25.120
 it has to function and this is how it has to be sensitive to surrounding neighbors,

02:46:25.120 --> 02:46:33.080
 if we leave it as you have to do a PD, I'm concerned that it's just never going to happen

02:46:33.080 --> 02:46:38.580
 or maybe it wouldn't happen in places that would give those people reasonable access

02:46:38.580 --> 02:46:40.760
 to things they need.

02:46:40.760 --> 02:46:44.080
 So I recognize that's a big ask, it's still a sticky wicket.

02:46:44.080 --> 02:46:50.520
 Are you asking for a work session, discussing tiny homes?

02:46:50.520 --> 02:47:00.000
 Yes, and specifically how could we move forward to making them buy right in some manner within

02:47:00.000 --> 02:47:01.000
 some zoning district?

02:47:01.000 --> 02:47:02.000
 In some manner.

02:47:02.000 --> 02:47:03.000
 Okay.

02:47:03.000 --> 02:47:04.000
 Sure.

02:47:04.000 --> 02:47:09.320
 Anything else for the matrix?

02:47:09.320 --> 02:47:16.360
 Tina, I guess with just what you said about it taking some time to gather that data for

02:47:16.360 --> 02:47:21.040
 multifamily, you said it would be November, okay?

02:47:21.040 --> 02:47:25.040
 Not sure what's on our agenda between now and then, but that was my whole goal for asking

02:47:25.040 --> 02:47:29.040
 about it because I know we have been getting backlogged and things have been getting postponed

02:47:29.040 --> 02:47:33.080
 that are going to have to do with multifamily coming forward, so I'm hoping there's not

02:47:33.080 --> 02:47:34.920
 a whole lot between then and now.

02:47:34.920 --> 02:47:42.040
 Yeah, we're just trying to consistently replicate the data and working through our limited data

02:47:42.040 --> 02:47:48.120
 tracking sources, and so wanting to make sure that the data we do provide you all is as

02:47:48.120 --> 02:47:55.320
 close as factual as we can and so that's been our challenge with respect to that.

02:47:55.320 --> 02:48:00.080
 So it's not that we're not trying to provide it, it's just we're trying to work through

02:48:00.080 --> 02:48:05.400
 having consistent application each time we pull the data, so.

02:48:05.400 --> 02:48:06.400
 Understood.

02:48:06.400 --> 02:48:07.400
 Thank you.

02:48:07.400 --> 02:48:09.540
 Just had a fair summary, Haley, so yes.

02:48:09.540 --> 02:48:11.400
 Okay, appreciate that.

02:48:11.400 --> 02:48:13.360
 Any concluding items?

02:48:13.360 --> 02:48:18.360
 Okay, with that, I'll go ahead and adjourn our meeting at 8 16 p.m.

02:48:18.360 --> 02:48:18.600
 Thank you.