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 This is our work session and with the quorum present, I will call us to order at 5.05 p.m.

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 First item on our work session agenda is citizen comment on consent agenda.

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 Is there anyone wishing to speak on consent?

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 Okay.

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 Seeing none, we'll go ahead with our next item on the agenda, which is clarification

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 for tonight's agenda in our public meeting.

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 The first being the minutes from September 25th.

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 Questions for staff on the minutes?

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 Okay.

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 How about anything on consent?

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 We do have five plats there.

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 Need anything brought forward?

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 Okay.

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 Items for individual consideration.

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 We have one, and that's for a PP240006.

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 Sean will give us that summary.

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 Hi, Sean.

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 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

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 Let me get that pulled up here.

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 All right, so PP240006, this is a preliminary plat for large property off Marshall Road.

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 It is not yet ready for approval.

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 We're working through a number of elements, so we are recommending no, but we do not object

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 to their request for an extension, which could be granted to October 23rd, 2024.

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 Happy to answer any questions.

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 Thank you, Sean.

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 I'll play Commissioner Villarreal, because I know he will want to know.

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 First extension, I think?

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 Yes, ma'am.

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 Yeah?

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 Okay.

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 Okay.

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 Perfect.

33
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 Wanted to clarify that.

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 Any questions then on that?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you very much.

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 Appreciate it.

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 Public hearing items, 5A, staff is requesting that item be postponed.

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 My question to you, are we opening that public hearing for that item?

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 Yes, ma'am.

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 We are.

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 And leaving that open?

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 Okay.

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 Questions before we move on from commission?

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 No?

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 Okay, then 5B is similar.

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 Staff is requesting the item be postponed until the 23rd.

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 So same, we will open the public hearing, and then we'll look for a motion to postpone

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 that until the 23rd.

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 Okay.

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 Then next will be 5C, AESA 240001.

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 Here is Christy for presentation in our work session.

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 Thank you.

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 I'm Christy Upton, environmental compliance coordinator, and tonight I will be presenting

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 an alternative ESA plan for a project called Grand Parkside.

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 This is seeking approval for an alternative ESA plan for modifications to 1.46 acres

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 of what is currently identified as undeveloped floodplain.

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 The resulting floodplain will meet the Dinton's criteria for approval for flood control, will

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 be landscaped using native grasses, flowering plants, and trees, and will include one rain

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 garden.

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 Sorry about that.

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 And to provide you more information about the site, this is going to be a residential

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 development.

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 There was a preliminary plat that was approved on August 14th.

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 The residential is R6.

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 This is US 377 here, and this is Hobson Lane, and this development will result in disturbances

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 to this area of what is currently identified as undeveloped floodplain.

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 I do want to go into a little bit of why I am using my words carefully here.

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 This is currently unstudied floodplain, which means that FEMA kind of put on a map where

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 they believed the 1% flood would occur, and a flood would occur in a 1% chance of that

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 event.

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 This area not having been studied before really just kind of is an understanding that with

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 further engineered design and further engineered study of that land, that area might change.

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 The limits of that floodplain might change.

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 And so in our code, in our Denton Development Code, as of today, it does not identify or

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 doesn't acknowledge those drainage studies as an update to the location, the extent of

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 these undeveloped floodplains.

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 So currently today we have to follow that FEMA 1%, what is currently on FEMA's map.

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 And so this land is generally in its natural state, and that's identified as undeveloped

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 floodplain.

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 The project will be filling in that land, but in exchange for the removal of that undeveloped

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 floodplain designation from that area, the developer is offered up to use native grasses

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 and much of the area that is going to be the common space for this residential development.

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 But in addition to that, acknowledging that residential runoff has pollutants, ubiquitous

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 pollutants that come off of properties, and acknowledging that has designed into the drainage,

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 the overall drainage of this area to intercept the sheep flow off of residential properties.

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 The interception of that with that rain garden, the idea or the concept of these rain gardens

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 is that the sheep flow will be concentrated, enter into that rain garden, will get infiltrated

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 through the soils, and the pollutants will get sequestered there in that area of the

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 rain garden.

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 And then what's exiting the rain garden to the storm drainage will result in something

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 that will be of higher quality storm water runoff.

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 So there were notifications sent out, and we received one response in favor of the project,

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 and staff has written a set of recommendations as in your backup, namely to ensure the establishment

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 of the rain garden and the establishment of those native grasses prior to the final walkthrough

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 of the project by environmental services to confirm everything has been established as

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 it was listed in the plan.

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 And then also one neighborhood sign prior to the issuance of building permits.

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 I started adding this because we do want residents to know what their future neighboring property

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 is going to look like, just so that there's not questions in the future.

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 And with that, that will be the end of that project.

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 Any questions for me?

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 Commissioner Villarreal.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 And this may be a question for the applicant later today.

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 Are they going to be here today by chance?

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 You know, I didn't receive any communications from them confirming, but typically the engineer

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 record does show.

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 So I imagine.

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 Gotcha.

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 But I can check with him in a few minutes when I finish this presentation.

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 Sure.

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 And just checking here, I see that during your presentation, you mentioned they reached

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 out to folks in the community that didn't hold a community meeting.

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 Correct.

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 In the backup, it says that they reached out to anyone who wanted to discuss the project.

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 Did that mean they were waiting for people to reach out first before they reached out

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 to the community?

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 The communication to me was that the property owner, the current property owner, he went

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 door to door or called neighbors and had a conversation with them.

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 Okay.

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 And they felt that was sufficient.

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 Gotcha.

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 For this project.

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 Thank you.

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 Along those lines, I read that the backup that he, and the list of neighbors that he

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 talked to, feedback at all from those conversations?

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 I didn't see that.

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 I did not receive any feedback myself.

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 The only response I received was that one response from a property owner, yes.

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 So we don't know what transpired with their conversation, I guess.

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 Correct.

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 Okay.

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 Okay.

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 Commissioner Thacker.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 So yeah, a couple of issues.

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 So I would love to know what their feedback was.

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 I don't understand the point in reaching out to the community and asking them what their

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 thoughts are and something if we're not recording the thoughts.

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 Okay.

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 You're in city office and you don't know what they said.

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 Correct.

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 So I mean, that's the kind of information that we need.

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 I would imagine more than one of them asked what a rain garden was.

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 So can you try to explain that to me again?

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 Sure.

148
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 Sure.

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 Because to me, it just, it seems like a bunch of sitting water that could be around kids

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 and animals.

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 And I mean, in my own neighborhood, we had two West Nile reports.

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 I just kind of want to know.

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 I understand.

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 Yes.

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 So they followed what's called I Swim.

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 And there is a drawing here at the bottom of this, this exhibit to show you what that

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 what the profile of these rain gardens are.

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 I Swim or I'm sorry, I used an acronym there, I apologize, Integrated Stormwater Management.

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 And the city of Denton is a participant in the Integrated Stormwater Management program.

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 And this is something that the North Central Texas Council of Governments put together.

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 So many years ago, all these surrounding communities got together and recognized that we needed

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 more specifications more standards like this in order to design these integrated stormwater

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 systems.

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 And our drainage review follows the I Swim manuals and this is just taking straight from

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 the I Swim.

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 So the idea of these rain gardens is to not hold the water for more than 24 to 48 hours.

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 Mesquite larvae cannot grow for they need longer than that in order for an egg to hatch

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 into an adult.

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 So the opportunity for mosquitoes to emerge from these type of structures is very low.

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 It does require maintenance.

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 So if there is standing water for any longer than 24 to 48 hours, then that would trigger

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 for us to say to the HOA that they will need to go out there and perform maintenance.

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 So if we have three days of rain and it's 100 degrees outside and everybody's on vacation,

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 what do we do?

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 That's a good question.

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 That's July in Texas.

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 I think the engineer, if he is here, will be able to explain a little bit more about

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 his final design.

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 The final engineering designs have not gone through review, but they will be following

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 the standard.

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 Three days of rain is -- and even with three days of rain or large rain events, these systems

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 are designed to drain after the rain finishes within that 24 to 48 hours.

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 OK?

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 >> You OK?

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 Yep.

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 You're good.

187
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 OK.

188
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:02,640
 Thank you.

189
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,640
 Commissioner Fedora?

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 >> Yep.

191
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 >> To follow up on Commissioner Haggard, can you describe a little bit more what the context

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 is with the maintenance of the area?

193
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 >> Mm-hmm.

194
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 Yes.

195
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 So maintenance typically is inspecting in some period of time, like quarterly, for trash

196
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 and debris, and removing that typically does not include removing vegetation or mowing

197
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 the vegetation unless there's clogging.

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 And then if there's clogging of the soils, when I say clogging, it means clogging of

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 the soil so that that rain, as it enters those rain gardens, is expected to drain.

200
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 And if it's not, it's most likely it's clogged, right?

201
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 And so vegetation would probably have to be removed at that time.

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 And then they would have to replant that vegetation to reestablish what is intended to be the

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 final product.

204
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:01,560
 Commissioner Pruitt?

205
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:11,000
 >> Just so I make sure I'm following, the language in the three-year monitoring period

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 and then the 85 percent trigger, I seem to see that more and more often.

207
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:23,560
 So is that our best understanding of what should be sufficient for these types of applications?

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00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,600
 And have we had experience yet, or is that sort of the new bar that we're setting recently

209
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,920
 and what we believe it's high enough?

210
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:31,920
 Does that make sense?

211
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,520
 >> You're asking about the three-year period before environmental services accepts the

212
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,760
 final landscaping.

213
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,800
 So this is a standard we've actually been following for at least the six years that

214
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,880
 I've been working here.

215
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,800
 So we've been putting it into each and every one of these alternative ESA plans we present

216
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,880
 to you.

217
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:59,020
 We did also, I believe, about two years ago put that into the Denton Development Code,

218
00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:07,200
 so we created a standard for each of these applications that we intend to have that procedure

219
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 in place.

220
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,200
 >> Okay.

221
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,640
 Thank you.

222
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,200
 >> Question back to these educational signs, since this is the first time I think I've

223
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 read that.

224
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,480
 What would that be?

225
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,360
 >> We haven't come up with the final design.

226
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,360
 >> Okay.

227
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,440
 >> Yes.

228
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:31,440
 So the applicant and I will work together to come up with a final design at the civil

229
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 plant.

230
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,440
 >> Okay.

231
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,120
 Yeah, and I think I saw on this one where -- I think it's different than what we just

232
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,520
 looked at, because this said one, I think this one said two.

233
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,400
 I know we have two on the next one.

234
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,400
 >> Correct.

235
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,400
 Yes.

236
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,400
 >> It's just one on this one?

237
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,400
 >> Correct.

238
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:48,400
 >> I assume it has to do because of the size of the area.

239
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,360
 >> Yes, it's up to this body if you want to propose to make a change to the number of

240
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 signs that is always open to discussion.

241
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:04,520
 I felt like one sign near the rain garden would help explain that, you know, what they're

242
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:05,520
 anticipating.

243
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,520
 >> Yeah.

244
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,720
 Yeah, and I just want -- here it says two, so I don't know if you want to change it on

245
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,560
 your slide or if this is a slide that's coming from the other one we're going to discuss

246
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:15,560
 shortly.

247
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:16,560
 >> Oh, I apologize.

248
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,560
 I missed that.

249
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:18,560
 >> Okay.

250
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:19,560
 >> That's on me.

251
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:20,560
 >> Okay.

252
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,560
 >> Okay.

253
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,960
 >> Anybody else questions on this one?

254
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,960
 Okay.

255
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,120
 Then I know you're going to stay right up there because we've got another one, and that is

256
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:34,880
 going to be 5D AESA 240002.

257
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,880
 >> If there's no objections, this one looks and feels a lot like the other because we

258
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,680
 prepared both of them about the same time.

259
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,480
 So I'm going to be glossing over a lot of the information that was just shared.

260
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,480
 Is that okay?

261
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:52,160
 >> Yeah, because we're going to go over the full report in the public hearing.

262
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,160
 >> Okay.

263
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,520
 >> Unless anyone has.

264
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:56,520
 >> So this one will be --

265
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,360
 >> We can do more specific questions, too, after your summary, sure.

266
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,400
 >> Absolutely.

267
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:08,720
 So in this project, this one will be for DENTEX, which received approval for -- I'll go over

268
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,520
 that in a minute.

269
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:17,880
 But this is for modifications to 29.9 acres of undeveloped flood plain.

270
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:23,160
 And the mitigation is very similar.

271
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,320
 This is the property.

272
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:32,000
 There was an amendment to the comprehensive plan and the zoning in August that this body

273
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,760
 saw, I believe, in July timeframe.

274
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:43,720
 And it's at the northeast of the intersection of John Payne Parkway and Johnson Road.

275
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:51,200
 The field assessments, again, confirmed that this is undeveloped flood plain, but, again,

276
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,280
 it's been agricultural land for quite some time.

277
00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,160
 So the value, the ecological value of this is pretty low.

278
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,280
 And again, it's unstudied flood plain.

279
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:13,520
 So it has that same kind of, you know, extent parameters to it in that as they studied it,

280
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,920
 they found it was -- it's much different.

281
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,320
 The geometry of these flood plains is much different.

282
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:29,960
 The mitigation plan reads very similarly in that there will be establishment of post-construction

283
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:37,960
 of that flood plain, there's going to be native grasses, flowering plants and trees.

284
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,320
 And then they proposed three rain gardens.

285
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,440
 And forgive me if I didn't fix the slide in the last one, because I think they went from

286
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,440
 two to three.

287
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,860
 And so there was a little bit of number changes going on, sorry.

288
00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:59,040
 And then the plant selections were determined based upon the final -- expected final hydrological

289
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,040
 conditions.

290
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,720
 And this one I want to stress a little bit more, because here we have a defined channel

291
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,200
 as a final product through the stem of this development.

292
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:17,240
 And that stem is going to be channeling water or transferring water through, which means

293
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,560
 that there could be water within that channel for a longer period of time.

294
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:29,920
 So hydrologically, some of these plants needed to -- this plant selection was -- it was necessary

295
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,640
 to go through the exercise of understanding that so that they selected the right kind

296
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,800
 of plants for the right conditions.

297
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,640
 Moisture soils, plants that can survive in those moisture soils.

298
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,680
 And then the notifications, I have received no responses.

299
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,920
 The property owner did choose to do the same kind of procedures where they went and just

300
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,900
 discussed this with the neighbors.

301
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:04,000
 And then I did receive a couple of inquiries from property owners nearby who had received

302
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:10,040
 notifications, but no one sent in a specifically a response.

303
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:17,960
 And then the recommendations should read very much the same caveat of the three rain gardens.

304
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,440
 I'll fix that.

305
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,400
 And with that, I'll take any questions.

306
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,400
 >> Okay.

307
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,080
 Questions on this one?

308
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,960
 You probably have asked all our questions.

309
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,400
 I guess I'll just follow up on what we did discuss with Commissioner Thaggard's concern.

310
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,200
 You said there would be more water, but not necessarily standing water, where we'd have

311
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:46,800
 to be concerned here with regard to mosquitoes, or like -- I assume that was thought about

312
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:53,600
 or discussed or -- >> These channels, if --

313
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,000
 >> They should be moving, correct?

314
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,000
 >> They should be moving.

315
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,000
 >> Yeah.

316
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,740
 >> So the intention there is to have these channels move the water through until it exits

317
00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:05,640
 the property.

318
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,280
 One of those things that can happen, and so I want to give you like a full picture here.

319
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,160
 These are going to be earthen channels.

320
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:19,160
 And so one of those things that can happen with earthen channels is that you get scouring,

321
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:26,680
 and that scouring can cause holes, you know, kind of like these little low areas that hold

322
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,480
 water for a longer period of time.

323
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:36,800
 We see that scouring occurring a lot more in the old way of managing channels and earthen

324
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:43,400
 channels, which is that, you know, you keep it mowed as state and you keep those low grasses

325
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:49,360
 there, and those grasses, when they're kept short, the roots are no longer than the grass

326
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:54,200
 that's above it, which means that there's really no root structure to hold the soils

327
00:21:54,200 --> 00:22:01,040
 for long periods of time, especially in stressful events like high rain events.

328
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:10,720
 With this type of proposed revegetation plan, what we anticipate seeing, I can't say that

329
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:17,400
 there wouldn't be some movement in the beginning especially, but what we anticipate seeing

330
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:23,840
 is that these taller grasses will result in longer roots, and those longer roots will

331
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,440
 be able to hold the soil more effectively.

332
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:35,200
 That's our goal, and that's what we're trying to get these developers to.

333
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,200
 Commissioner Thagger.

334
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,560
 Thank you, Chair.

335
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:45,520
 The word "unstudied" is making me unsettled, so can we, and I think it would make, I mean,

336
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,080
 and I'm looking at this property, I mean, it's mass, I mean, you're saying you talk

337
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,080
 to neighbors.

338
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,080
 Where?

339
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,060
 You know, I mean, it's massive, laying out, unless I've just pulled up the wrong thing

340
00:22:57,060 --> 00:22:58,600
 from my backup.

341
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,720
 Is this what you're asking about, the notifications?

342
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:08,520
 So these notifications were sent to the property owners within that 200-foot buffer and the

343
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,520
 500-foot buffer.

344
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,520
 Okay.

345
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,520
 Yes.

346
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:18,480
 Going back to the word "unstudied" and making me unsettled, I think that there's just so

347
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,200
 much "what if," right?

348
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,400
 We hope that the roots will do this, and it's really not studied.

349
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:31,560
 I think that that's, if you look at this development and how detailed it is, the fact that we're

350
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,600
 kind of, and I mean, I hate to even bring this up, but you think about, you know, like

351
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,560
 the hurricanes we're experiencing right now, which I know that, you know, that's definitely

352
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,480
 not going to happen anywhere local, but it's unexpected.

353
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,360
 We don't know when all of a sudden we're just going to get this hellacious amount of rain,

354
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,340
 and even things that are studied, we don't know, you know, what the outcomes are going

355
00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:53,500
 to be.

356
00:23:53,500 --> 00:24:00,880
 I just wonder if maybe we shouldn't just have a little bit more prudence in studying what

357
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:01,880
 would be better.

358
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:02,880
 I see.

359
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:13,700
 And I understand, but I also, what I'm hearing is you might be layering two different concepts

360
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,080
 in here when you're asking this question.

361
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,080
 I hope I'm correct.

362
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,080
 Is that for us?

363
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,080
 Okay.

364
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:35,360
 Okay, so the concept of unstudied floodplain is because it is a theoretical, informational

365
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:39,440
 study that was performed by FEMA.

366
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:47,200
 What they did to create those 1% unstudied floodplains is because they don't have enough

367
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,920
 information in hand.

368
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,520
 And Tina, if anyone else has anything else to add to color to this, let me know.

369
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,480
 I'm not an engineer, but I've discussed this with our engineers a couple of times.

370
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:05,600
 So I'm just trying to restate what I think I understand.

371
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,560
 So are you thinking the rain garden is unstudied when she says unstudied?

372
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:17,560
 I'm thinking on the last two items that I keep hearing words like unstudied and theoretical,

373
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,840
 and that is going to be something-

374
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,680
 Because the unstudied floodplain is just that.

375
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,120
 It's because it's on a map that says this is floodplain.

376
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:31,320
 And you have to treat it as floodplain unless you go to FEMA and get that revised.

377
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,440
 So it's unstudied because we don't have any, like, they don't have any working knowledge

378
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,980
 in the city that it's floodplain.

379
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:43,820
 So it's termed unstudied because it says on the map that it's a floodplain.

380
00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:48,600
 So I'm going to let you all hammer that out a little easier, but I think you're hearing

381
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,600
 unstudied and I think you're thinking that it has to do with the mitigation.

382
00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:02,240
 And I don't think it has to do with the mitigation because they're using iSwim, which is definitely

383
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,240
 studied.

384
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,240
 Does that help?

385
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,240
 I don't know.

386
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,240
 I don't know if that helps or clarifies things.

387
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,240
 It's just on the stake here, I really do just kind of want to understand it a little bit

388
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,240
 better.

389
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,240
 So-

390
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,000
 Yeah, it's just trying to clarify, I think clarify words and what they relate to.

391
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000
 Thank you.

392
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,000
 Thank you very much.

393
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,000
 You'll take it from there.

394
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,000
 Tina, it looks like you have something to add.

395
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,320
 No, I was just going to, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the unstudied floodplain,

396
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:31,520
 it's basically taking into consideration a certain storm event and the existing topographical

397
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,120
 information that's available based upon the grades that are there and then FEMA assigning

398
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,520
 what is considered the floodplain.

399
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:45,560
 When we have projects, when their civil engineering plans are submitted, they do further analysis

400
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:52,160
 and including taking consideration their water runoff calculations to see if any additional

401
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,220
 modifications or adjustments need to be made where there's additional protection that needs

402
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:57,800
 to be put in place.

403
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,880
 So if they were thinking that the water was actually going to rise higher than the designated

404
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,640
 floodplain area, then in all likelihood, they're taking that into consideration in their design,

405
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:13,960
 whether they're retaining water for a limited period of time to slow it down before it enters

406
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:19,080
 into a channel or if additional improvements have to be done, but that's factored into

407
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,080
 the engineering design.

408
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,260
 But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but what we're getting at here is we have these

409
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:31,360
 ESA areas that have been analyzed and are needing to be altered.

410
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:39,680
 And so our code allows for alternate options to be provided for, to allow for somebody

411
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,700
 to be able to acceptably modify that ESA area.

412
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:51,960
 And so the rain gardens are one aspect or one tool that we have in the toolbox that

413
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,520
 we're also able to utilize in order to be able to address the water runoff.

414
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,840
 And in some extent, the rain gardens also assist with water quality because to the point

415
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,920
 of an integrated stormwater system, with the I-swim manual, it took into consideration

416
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:13,160
 various different tools that are available to be able to address stormwater runoff, both

417
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,200
 the amount of water running off, but then also the quality of the water running off

418
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,560
 on property.

419
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,220
 And so in this case, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the rain garden would also

420
00:28:23,220 --> 00:28:27,820
 be able to help address a water quality issue because of the plant materials that are being

421
00:28:27,820 --> 00:28:30,240
 allowed for within that rain garden.

422
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,320
 And so we're trying to address to some extent some water quality, but also the water runoff

423
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,960
 aspect that is associated with this property being developed.

424
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,960
 Correct.

425
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:42,960
 Did I get that right?

426
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:43,960
 Yes.

427
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,000
 I think I would add one more element to help maybe kind of visualize this.

428
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:55,080
 Unstudied is pre-anybody doing anything with the land.

429
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:02,440
 Studied would be pre-development, but better understanding of what's actually on the land.

430
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:08,000
 And that would be, so then you take that studied floodplain, any modifications to that studied

431
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:15,640
 floodplain is the post-development study of that floodplain so that the final product

432
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:25,240
 is throughout, you're showing where that, where the measured 100-year flood is anticipated

433
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,320
 to rise to.

434
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,320
 Okay.

435
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,320
 Okay.

436
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,040
 Any other questions for Kristy at this point?

437
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:37,880
 I mean, we're going to get the full presentation, so.

438
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,880
 Thank you.

439
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,600
 If you think of something, none.

440
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,600
 Okay.

441
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,600
 Thank you, Kristy.

442
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:49,440
 To our next public hearing, that is going to be 5EZ240013.

443
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,440
 Hi, Ashley.

444
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,520
 Good evening.

445
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,460
 Ashley Eckstead, Associate Planner.

446
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:05,320
 This is Z243I35RV Supercenter.

447
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,880
 This is a request to rezone approximately 0.36 acres of land from a general office zoning

448
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,720
 district to a highway corridor zoning district.

449
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,900
 This is currently undeveloped, but it will be plotted as part of the existing RV sales

450
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,200
 use to the south and the east.

451
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,880
 The purpose of this rezoning request is to address the non-conformities on that RV sales

452
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,240
 use lot.

453
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:31,360
 The building that is adjacent to the subject property is constructed about 0.85 feet over

454
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,200
 the property line, and that use is not permitted in geo-zoning, and additionally, it does not

455
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,040
 meet the required 10-foot setback requirement in HC zoning.

456
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,020
 Staff does recommend approval, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

457
00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:49,120
 I have a question.

458
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,700
 Were there any fines associated with the negligence of them building this?

459
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:54,700
 There wasn't.

460
00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:59,800
 So for the, these, so it was this building and then this building adjacent to it here.

461
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,380
 We did require an inspection from a structural engineer, so he went out there and inspected

462
00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:09,920
 that and then required several large improvements to the structure and the foundation.

463
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:17,920
 So they did those and then got another inspection report that they were now structurally sound.

464
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,920
 Okay.

465
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,640
 So, okay.

466
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:21,640
 I think that's interesting.

467
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,760
 Do we not have, do we not have that in the city, like, you don't get in trouble when

468
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,760
 you do this kind of thing?

469
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,520
 I mean, I know they're going through a big process now, which, I mean, yeah.

470
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,280
 I'm not sure if building safety has, so these were permits that he should have gotten, so

471
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,520
 I'm not sure if building safety has anything like that, but I don't believe that we required

472
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,520
 it.

473
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,040
 Yeah, I think it's good on the vendor that it was the vendor who was doing electrical

474
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,480
 work, right, that pulled the permit as he should and said, "Oh, the permits will never

475
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,480
 pulled."

476
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,480
 Fascinating.

477
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,880
 And you're not even on your land.

478
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,660
 Yeah, I find that remarkable, honestly.

479
00:31:59,660 --> 00:32:01,640
 Any questions for Ashley on this?

480
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,240
 That's pretty straightforward, but okay, thank you very much.

481
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:14,120
 Okay, that will take us to then 5F, PD 240004.

482
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,240
 Julie is here for that item.

483
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,240
 Good evening.

484
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:30,200
 All right, Julie Wyatt, I'm presenting PD 244.

485
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,200
 Julie is on McKinney.

486
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,000
 Just a summary, you'll be happy to answer any questions if you'd like, but this is a

487
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:44,120
 rezoning from R3 district to PD R6 district to facilitate the development of 119 zero

488
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,560
 lot line dwellings on 12 acres.

489
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,680
 When we were talking about this, we kind of talked about why a PD, and this is one of

490
00:32:53,680 --> 00:33:00,440
 those lots that a PD really fits because of the unusual lot shape and configuration.

491
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,440
 It is very long and narrow.

492
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:10,040
 It's over 2,000 feet long, and then at its narrowest, it's about 250 feet wide.

493
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,480
 So the lot dimensions, there's also some encumbrances related to electrical utility easements on

494
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,760
 the site, so that further squeezes the property.

495
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,200
 So those lot dimensions and encumbrances kind of create a unique situation for this property.

496
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,160
 And then the use, it's zero lot line homes.

497
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,080
 It's not something we typically see within the city of Denton.

498
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:41,880
 It's a smaller lot, platted as single family, but one of the structure walls will sit on

499
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,760
 the property line for one side, and then the other opposite side would have a setback.

500
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,200
 So it's something we don't see often within the city of Denton.

501
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,320
 We are recommending approval of the request because it complies with the criteria for

502
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,320
 approval.

503
00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,800
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

504
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,580
 One thing I failed to mention is where it is.

505
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:03,580
 It is on McKinney.

506
00:34:03,580 --> 00:34:10,560
 It spans between McKinney and Paisley on the east side of town, just inside the loop.

507
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,920
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

508
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,240
 >> My question is, do we have for Julie, Commissioner Villarreal.

509
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:19,240
 >> Thank you, Chair.

510
00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:21,960
 Real quick, did they do a traffic impact study?

511
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,960
 >> They did, yes.

512
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,960
 >> Okay.

513
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:24,960
 >> That was reviewed and approved.

514
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:25,960
 Yes, sir.

515
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:26,960
 >> Gotcha.

516
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,120
 And what did that show the impact on the area?

517
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:36,380
 >> It really showed the impact that they really needed to address was turning into the site.

518
00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:40,520
 So if anybody's driven on McKinney, you know it can be challenging to take a left-hand

519
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,640
 turn.

520
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:49,320
 And so they will be required to construct a dedicated left turn into the property to

521
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,960
 address those trips, those trips going inside.

522
00:34:53,960 --> 00:35:00,360
 They also did an analysis and just to show you kind of where the traffic distribution

523
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,360
 is in the area.

524
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:06,680
 So they kind of anticipated that the traffic would be dispersed throughout the area, McKinney

525
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:14,120
 being a secondary arterial with a variety of signalized intersections, and then Paisley,

526
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,520
 a collector roadway.

527
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,560
 So they anticipate that that traffic would be dispersed both on Paisley and McKinney

528
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,000
 to hit those signalized intersections but also to make sure that they address any trips

529
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200
 inside with that left turn lane.

530
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,720
 >> Thank you.

531
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:30,720
 >> You bet.

532
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:36,920
 Any questions for Julie on this?

533
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:50,080
 >> It seems so dense for this little piece of land in a very populated area, 119, it's

534
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,440
 like 10 units an acre.

535
00:35:53,440 --> 00:36:04,600
 It's a lot that have in and out McKinney and Paisley the way they would have it.

536
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,080
 Yeah, I mean I know it's just a rendering, right, that we're looking at.

537
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,000
 This is not becoming part of anything.

538
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,480
 I assume the drawing that we have -- >> The PD, it is a PD, so --

539
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,120
 >> Yeah, so it's just taking, it's just usage once a log is not allowed.

540
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:29,960
 >> So they would need to substantially comply with that PD document and the development

541
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:30,960
 standards that they've prepared.

542
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,240
 >> I guess I don't know how else you're putting that many units on that piece of land.

543
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,120
 This land is for sale, correct?

544
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,160
 Do we know?

545
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,280
 >> The applicant will be here, they will probably --

546
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,280
 >> Believe it is.

547
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,960
 >> -- be able to answer that.

548
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,960
 >> Okay.

549
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:46,960
 Any other questions?

550
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,680
 Yep, Commissioner Pruitt.

551
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,880
 Not that there's an answer here, but just as we can bring it up in the public meeting

552
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,880
 given the density concerns, if there's a way that we could find out what the density of

553
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,520
 the fountains of Denton immediately adjacent is, just so we kind of understand.

554
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,520
 >> This is the fountains.

555
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,520
 I have that.

556
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,520
 I'll get it for you.

557
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,520
 >> Great.

558
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,520
 Thank you.

559
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,520
 >> Yeah.

560
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:11,520
 Thank you.

561
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:12,520
 Okay.

562
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:13,520
 Thanks, Julie.

563
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:14,520
 >> Thank you.

564
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,520
 >> Move on.

565
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,520
 Look forward to the full presentation.

566
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:23,200
 >> Okay, I think that is our last item on the agenda for our public meeting.

567
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,040
 We do have a work session.

568
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,720
 I am guessing that that's going to take a considerable amount of time, that discussion.

569
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,000
 Can we break super quick, go get your food, otherwise I think you're not going to have

570
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,080
 an opportunity to eat it.

571
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,720
 So let's do that.

572
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,440
 We'll go ahead and take a quick recess at 542.

573
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:49,640
 Let's just get back here for that discussion as soon as we can.

574
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,560
 >> Thank you for allowing us that recess.

575
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,960
 Let's call us back to order at 552 p.m.

576
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,480
 We've got one work session report left.

577
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,360
 It is 3APZ24204.

578
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,440
 Receive a report, hold a discussion, give staff direction regarding amending the proposed

579
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:15,480
 land uses in the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan north of FM 1173, west of Highway 35,

580
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,600
 south of Ganser, generally east of Mosh Branch.

581
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:21,600
 I guess I'll turn it to Cameron.

582
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,160
 I didn't know if it was you or Tina.

583
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,720
 >> Actually, I'm going to start this.

584
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:25,720
 >> Okay.

585
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:26,720
 You got it.

586
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:34,120
 >> So this evening we have on your agenda to have a conversation regarding potential

587
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,920
 change to our future land use map.

588
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:44,080
 We have received a zoning petition that is inconsistent with the future land use recommendations.

589
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,680
 We have to be careful this evening not to discuss the merits of the requested zoning

590
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:49,680
 change.

591
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,040
 We will be able to provide you kind of a high level overview of the uses that are generally

592
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,040
 being requested.

593
00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:02,900
 But we wanted to have this discussion first with all of you to see -- to gain some level

594
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:07,520
 of consensus as to whether or not we should consider amendments to the future land use

595
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,480
 map in this area of town.

596
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,440
 Because what is being requested, as Cameron will walk through with you, is very different

597
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,320
 than what our future land use recommendations are today.

598
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,800
 And so therefore have significant implications on our future land use map that truly warrant

599
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,660
 that broader conversation about whether or not we should consider those changes.

600
00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:30,220
 It also would give the applicant some direction moving forward as to whether or not they need

601
00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:37,080
 to submit a future land use map amendment, if you will, a comprehensive plan amendment.

602
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,880
 But also our city manager's office was wanting us to engage in this conversation with the

603
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,680
 commission and ultimately council and have council weigh in on this before that application

604
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,360
 if anything is submitted if the application -- or excuse me, if the applicant deems to

605
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,360
 submit one.

606
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:56,720
 So with that -- oh, I guess lastly I would add it's not every day we have this situation

607
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:57,720
 arise.

608
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:03,600
 And so most of the time when we have a comprehensive plan amendment that is submitted, it is smaller

609
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:11,720
 in scale, may not have as significant of an impact on other land planning efforts within

610
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:12,720
 the area.

611
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,880
 And so hence why also we felt it was appropriate to have this work session conversation.

612
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,240
 So I'll turn it over to Cameron.

613
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:21,360
 >> Thank you, Tina.

614
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,920
 >> Oh, sorry.

615
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,560
 >> No, go ahead.

616
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,560
 >> Yep.

617
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:26,560
 >> Perfect.

618
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,400
 So just a quick background before I dive into the options that were sent to y'all earlier

619
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:39,560
 this week, 1877 Journey, which is a 501(c)(3), received a donation of approximately 70 acres

620
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,560
 to develop a micro home community for chronically homeless individuals along FM 1173 near the

621
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,460
 railroad.

622
00:40:46,460 --> 00:40:52,600
 It would support -- have support services such as a medical clinic, also have some commercial

623
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,100
 uses that would help with some skill development as well.

624
00:40:57,100 --> 00:41:01,880
 The plan development application for this proposed development was submitted in June

625
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,920
 2024.

626
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,400
 The property is located in the Denton City limits.

627
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,800
 It does have the ETJ to the north and the west of the property.

628
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:19,280
 And then has existing light industrial to the south as well as the east and then that

629
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,720
 northeast.

630
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:25,640
 The proposed uses, as Tina stated, are in conflict with our current and anticipated

631
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,880
 future land uses.

632
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:36,040
 It would necessitate a comprehensive plan amendment as well as a zoning change.

633
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:44,940
 So as I stated, because of that significant inconsistency with our future land use map,

634
00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:48,760
 staff is looking for a broader discussion to occur this evening.

635
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,440
 First is, is it appropriate to consider changing our future land use map to allow residential

636
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,640
 uses in that area?

637
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,880
 And then if we allow those residential uses, there is broader implications to that surrounding

638
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,600
 area.

639
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,360
 The feedback that is needed this evening is whether the commission is supportive of changing

640
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,380
 the future land use recommendation for the area of the city and then providing that feedback

641
00:42:12,380 --> 00:42:17,640
 to city council.

642
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,940
 So before I jump in to the different options that I'm going to be presenting, there are

643
00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:23,920
 some things to consider.

644
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,920
 The first is staff looked at whether it is appropriate to evaluate potential land use

645
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:35,920
 changes north of Barthold Road and west of I-35.

646
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,040
 What's highlighted in the blue is that existing industrial and commercial uses that are developed

647
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,600
 to the south and the east of that subject property and then Barthold Road as part of

648
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,200
 the 2022 mobility plan was determined to be a primary arterial.

649
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,960
 So essentially a regional corridor leading to the city of Crum.

650
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,280
 If it were appropriate to use residential uses, we'd have to consider the retail and

651
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,820
 commercial service uses that are needed for that area.

652
00:43:03,820 --> 00:43:08,600
 And then in addition to, there are potential economic impacts to the city if the land is

653
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,720
 converted to residential.

654
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:17,680
 Commercial properties usually require more city services and they typically generate

655
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:25,080
 less revenue for cities as compared to that industrial use.

656
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:30,600
 Some additional considerations are the city also has no land use authority within the

657
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,120
 city's ETJ.

658
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:39,360
 The city can land plan for those certain land uses if they are to annex into the city.

659
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,340
 The exception is an executed non-annexation agreement, which generally limits the property

660
00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:52,300
 owners to a single family at five acres or agricultural.

661
00:43:52,300 --> 00:44:00,240
 In terms of more intensive land use designation, we see that along I-35 and north of FM 1173.

662
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:07,240
 In 2022, highlighted in yellow, we did have an annexation of approximately 83 acre parcel,

663
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,880
 which was rezoned to Light Industrial.

664
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,600
 And then we also had a 54 acre parcel, which was just south of Barthold Road, rezoned to

665
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,240
 Light Industrial as well.

666
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:23,440
 And then there's existing highway corridor and mixed use regional.

667
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,320
 And lastly, with the future land use was updated in March 2022, there was a decision to designate

668
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:35,640
 the land west of I-35 as Light Industrial, given feedback during a zoning case that was

669
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:45,040
 at city council regarding a trucking business that was looking to rezone east of I-35.

670
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,440
 So before I jump in, just want to show kind of the existing conditions.

671
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,640
 You see that industrial south of FM 1173, and you see that existing industrial commercial

672
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,080
 along the I-35 corridor.

673
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:02,600
 And then you have our future land use showing all of that as Light Industrial.

674
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:09,780
 So option one, which is sitting in front of y'all on a map, is a low residential community

675
00:45:09,780 --> 00:45:16,840
 mixed use land use located north of FM 1173, predominantly west of I-35.

676
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:23,320
 So I wanted to highlight in terms of CRUM, the city of CRUM, their current land uses

677
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,920
 do show single family resident north of FM 1173 and then south of FM 1173.

678
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:36,160
 They're showing that mixed multifamily and retail commercial uses.

679
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:42,320
 We're looking at low residential primarily, not only due to the city of CRUM to our east,

680
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:48,680
 but also just some of that, the residential use currently as part of that proposed development.

681
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:54,960
 Also with it being in the NAA, if they were looking to do a non-annexation agreement,

682
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,400
 we'd be looking at single family or agricultural.

683
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,880
 I wanted to highlight the area in pink here, that 186 acres.

684
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,960
 That would be that community mixed use.

685
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:13,760
 We need support services to the area if development residential is to develop.

686
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:20,880
 But we also have those existing industrial uses along FM 1173 and south of FM 1173.

687
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:28,800
 So it would be a lot more visible in that Ganzard Road area.

688
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,720
 Option two is a mixture of low residential and moderate residential and community mixed

689
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,120
 use.

690
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:42,080
 We're showing that moderate residential along FM 1173 since there would be higher intensity

691
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:49,960
 uses within that proposed development, but also would be able to better coexist with

692
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,320
 that light industrial use to the south.

693
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,000
 In addition, it would be that good transition into CRUM where it's showing that multi-family

694
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:05,240
 and that retail and commercial kind of at the entrance of that city.

695
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:11,440
 And then lastly, we do have that moderate residential showing that full 1,400 acres.

696
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:16,520
 And this would, if that NAA were to annex into the city, they would just benefit from

697
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:23,360
 a slightly more intense land use in the future.

698
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,600
 Option four, there is the option four of just status quo, not changing anything in that

699
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,320
 future land use map.

700
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,440
 In this instance, the best practice would be for the applicant to come forward with

701
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,860
 their own comprehensive plan amendment, depending on what they feel is the most appropriate

702
00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:42,040
 land use for that property.

703
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:47,880
 And then they would have that zoning request as well.

704
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:53,660
 Some next steps in terms of work sessions, if this work session is needing to be continued,

705
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:56,840
 it would be continued to Wednesday, November 13th.

706
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:05,400
 And then staff is planning to go to the Tuesday, December 3rd city council work session.

707
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,320
 That's all I have.

708
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,640
 Question, I guess, where are you going, is it a work session with council as well?

709
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:14,640
 Correct.

710
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,640
 December 3rd?

711
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,640
 Yes.

712
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,640
 Okay.

713
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,320
 To, I guess, bring forward like our discussion and then to them and get their feedback on

714
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,320
 it?

715
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,320
 Yes.

716
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:26,320
 Okay.

717
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:27,320
 Correct.

718
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,400
 We anticipated that city council would probably want to know what your feedback is as a commission.

719
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,400
 Okay.

720
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:37,240
 Other question before, I'll get to it in a second, have you talked to CRUM at all?

721
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:43,500
 No, we've been, we have been receiving emails from CRUM, the city of CRUM, some residents

722
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,400
 who are very concerned about the proposed development.

723
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,480
 I don't want to run into too much detail about that.

724
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:49,480
 No, I know, and we can't do that.

725
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,480
 I meant the city of CRUM.

726
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:51,480
 Not necessarily.

727
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:52,480
 No, just residents.

728
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:53,480
 Okay.

729
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:54,480
 Okay.

730
00:48:54,480 --> 00:49:00,760
 Where would we like to start?

731
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,760
 Commissioner Pruitt?

732
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,480
 Just a couple quick factual questions.

733
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,760
 I know recently talks with CRUM that, that helps.

734
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:16,120
 Was there any communication with CRUM during the 2040 plan update when we coded that all

735
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,160
 light industrial, sort of some history that would help here?

736
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,160
 Sure thing.

737
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,640
 So, no, I do not recall us having any conversations with the city of CRUM.

738
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,280
 What I do recall though is when we were looking at how best to address the Northwest quadrant

739
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:35,840
 of the city and designate as industrial, that the fact that there are residents within CRUM

740
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,000
 was brought up, I believe it was commissioner, former commissioner Cole, who had raised that

741
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,000
 question.

742
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,400
 And at that time, you know, the consensus was that we would designate the area west

743
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,960
 of I-35 as light industrial.

744
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:47,960
 Okay.

745
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,320
 Thank you.

746
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:58,240
 The yeah, I don't want to take up too much time.

747
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:03,560
 I'm for the existing flume as is.

748
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:10,080
 It seems a little bit like wagging the tail, wagging the dog by its tail.

749
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:18,560
 I'm very sensitive to the desire to see a great community and it's sort of a marriage

750
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,760
 of opportunity.

751
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,680
 The question is whether that marriage is the right place.

752
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:35,320
 Yeah, so, you know, as I look at it, right, I guess a couple questions, I know the comp

753
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:45,920
 plan talks in several places about there being, you know, a lot of already agreed to zoned

754
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:52,480
 land or planned land for low residential in the MPCs, both Hunter Cole as well as the

755
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:59,000
 north of town, and it sort of talks toward the idea that, well, there's a lot there,

756
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,460
 so we may not need a ton more.

757
00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:10,800
 Is that still staff's conclusion from that or is this coming from, hey, we need a ton

758
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,920
 more single family residential land because of XYZ?

759
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,160
 So that's a great question.

760
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:22,680
 You know, when we update the future land use map in the comprehensive plan, you know, we

761
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:28,440
 provide a level of analysis included within that, but it's a high level analysis, right?

762
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,720
 We've talked in the past about how the comprehensive plan is more of that 30,000 foot level policy

763
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:39,160
 direction based upon our analysis at that time and what we were designating on the future

764
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,560
 land use map.

765
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,040
 We believed that we would have an appropriate amount of land in all likelihood designated

766
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,200
 for residential uses, but we also know conditions change, right?

767
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,800
 And so in this case, we have a property owner who's received land that's interested in

768
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:04,120
 developing it in a certain manner, and as a result, it has, it could potentially influence

769
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,680
 other outcomes than associated with the land in the area, and you could have that situation

770
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,040
 occur any time throughout the city.

771
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,520
 The other thing I'll add is, you know, state law says that if you're going to rezone property,

772
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,960
 that you should rezone it in accordance with your comprehensive plan, so that's why we

773
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,040
 also wanted to have this conversation.

774
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,040
 Okay.

775
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:27,440
 Yeah, so I'll just expand a little bit and then let, I want to hear everybody else, but

776
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:36,560
 I think that community mixed use section on your map is about two and a half miles walk

777
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:47,520
 from the southern portion of this, so that's pretty far in July.

778
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:55,640
 I understand, you know, that we need to be sensitive to our neighbors and comprehend that,

779
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:03,440
 but at the same time, my recollection of that past discussion was light industrial, you

780
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:11,200
 know, while the buildings are large, the impacts that they have to surrounding areas are less

781
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:19,440
 intense than a huge shopping center or high-density residential development, et cetera, et cetera.

782
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:32,200
 I'm also very keen to agree with the sort of fiscal implications of adding quite a large

783
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:46,560
 segment of a type of residential development that other parts of the city have to subsidize,

784
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:52,120
 and I'm also nervous about this ETGA thing, and maybe I'll just stop here and if there's

785
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:58,440
 any feedback staff has on, I understand functionally that we don't have land use control.

786
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:08,960
 What I don't understand, if you can share, is what practical implication the future land

787
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,440
 use designations have in the flume.

788
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:18,040
 So for instance, if I'm a developer and I have a piece of land, sorry, not in the flume,

789
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,200
 in the ETGA.

790
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,580
 If I'm a developer and I have a piece of land very near the city in the ETGA, say it borders

791
00:54:25,580 --> 00:54:32,320
 on one side, right, I can go develop that to the county's regulations with our subdivision

792
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:37,240
 regulations if it's an ETGA one and be done, right?

793
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:43,040
 Or I can talk to the city and say, hey, should I annex to you so that I pay a bunch of taxes

794
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:50,040
 and a bunch of impact fees and in return, I have to have risk of going through this process.

795
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:59,560
 So I don't really understand where the carrot is for how a particular land use designation

796
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:05,360
 within the ETGA helps us achieve what we're actually putting on the map.

797
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,200
 Does that make sense?

798
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,360
 Yes.

799
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,280
 So I believe I understand your question.

800
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,600
 So we had this, I don't know if you recall, we had this conversation also when we were

801
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,920
 updating the comprehensive plan because we had the whole conversation regarding how much

802
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:25,480
 area do we shade green versus other colors, right, to acknowledge other land uses.

803
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,360
 But the challenge is, in the ETGA, you're absolutely correct.

804
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,320
 We have absolutely no land use authority.

805
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,160
 Somebody could come and develop their property as they see fit and they have to comply with

806
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:40,760
 our subdivision regulations for ETGA one and then also county standards that might apply.

807
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:47,200
 If a property owner were to want to annex into the city, then that's where any shading

808
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:53,400
 that we have on the future land use map pertaining to land use is where we engage in that conversation

809
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,600
 and say, you know, we are interested in this type of development happening in this area

810
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,000
 of our community based upon these land use designation categories that we made.

811
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,960
 So they can choose to continue with annexation.

812
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,600
 They will have a subsequent zoning case that they will file.

813
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,480
 We would evaluate that zoning case in accordance with the land use recommendations that we

814
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:14,900
 have on the map.

815
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:18,480
 So that's I mean, that's how that would play out.

816
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,200
 You're welcome.

817
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,200
 >> That's all for now.

818
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,200
 Thank you.

819
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,200
 >> Okay.

820
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,200
 Okay.

821
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:27,200
 Let's go next.

822
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,200
 Anybody?

823
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:29,200
 Mm-hmm.

824
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:30,200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

825
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,200
 >> Thank you, Chair.

826
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,760
 And I agree with a lot of Vice Chair Pruitt's points here.

827
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,280
 I, you know, I took a look at this year.

828
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,880
 I drove down Bartle and talked to some of the property owners there and without getting

829
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:46,400
 into details of what's going here, I find it difficult to approve one of these without

830
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,120
 listening to the applicant first.

831
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:54,800
 I'm currently in favor of the current flume, so option four is where I'm at right now.

832
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,160
 You know, let them come to us with the proposal, let them discuss why they think it needs to

833
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,400
 be changed and why it needs to be altered.

834
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,560
 I don't want to put the cart before the horse.

835
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,560
 Is that your metaphor?

836
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,080
 No, you said wagging the dog by the tail.

837
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:07,080
 I don't want to do that.

838
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,200
 Well, I want to hear the applicant come here first before we make this decision.

839
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:20,360
 >> Yeah, I think the difficulty that probably we're all having, because I'm in agreement

840
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:26,000
 with Vice Chair Pruitt and Commissioner Villarreal at this point, because we can't really discuss

841
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,600
 what we're supposed to really be discussing.

842
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:36,080
 You know, what we're discussing not at all why this is before us and why it would make

843
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,020
 sense to do option one, two, or three.

844
00:57:40,020 --> 00:57:44,120
 Option one doesn't even look like it would work for the thing that we're not talking

845
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:45,120
 about.

846
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:54,720
 So, I -- yeah, I think that's the difficulty here right now is because we're not really

847
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,040
 discussing anything specific.

848
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:03,440
 We're -- you know, the way we've got it, you know, worded on our agenda, I mean, this is

849
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,880
 what we can discuss, which I understand, but it makes it very difficult to discuss because

850
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,440
 we have nothing concrete.

851
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,520
 We have some ideas of why we're discussing this, but we can't really discuss it.

852
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:21,360
 So, we can't really ask questions and true concerns as to how we could make a decision

853
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,000
 of option one, two, or three.

854
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:34,240
 So, you know, is there any other -- for this applicant that you have before you that we're

855
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:41,920
 not discussing, the only of -- their only option would be to come before us with an

856
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:47,800
 application for comprehensive plan amendment and a zoning change.

857
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:48,800
 Is that correct?

858
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,200
 There's no other option.

859
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:51,200
 Correct.

860
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:58,320
 So, they could submit a zoning application without a comprehensive plan amendment, but

861
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,240
 then we're -- as I mentioned earlier, you know, state law says that if we're going to

862
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,800
 have zoning, then we should be practicing zoning in accordance or evaluating zoning

863
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:07,800
 in accordance with our comprehensive plan.

864
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:08,800
 So --

865
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,680
 I just want to know if there was another -- if they had another --

866
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:11,680
 Right.

867
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:12,680
 So, that option is available.

868
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,480
 You know, the other thing to take into consideration, if I could offer, is, you know, they could

869
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:23,080
 come forth with a proposed comprehensive plan amendment and then, depending -- and their

870
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:31,520
 zoning case, depending upon how the end result of that is, may then cause the city to have

871
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:37,800
 to come back and evaluate its future land use recommendations within this area.

872
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:42,400
 Because if the commission and ultimately council determine that residential uses are appropriate

873
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:48,200
 within this area, then I would anticipate that we would be having a subsequent conversation.

874
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:53,360
 So, we were hoping to be able to at least have this high-level conversation to be able

875
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:58,440
 to address whether or not residential uses in general are appropriate.

876
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:04,360
 And so, hence why we brought this forth to initiate that conversation.

877
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:05,360
 Okay.

878
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:10,200
 But we can't really have that conversation, I don't think, because, again, we can't really

879
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:17,600
 ask specific things as far as what's before you, and I completely understand that.

880
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:22,240
 The thing is, is, you know, the comprehensive plan that we have currently was not just flippantly

881
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,240
 put together.

882
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:28,640
 So, I think if we had thought that low residential would belong there, that probably would have

883
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:35,800
 been something that was discussed, and that wasn't even on the radar of when we were discussing

884
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:43,760
 the future land use map as we have it, so, again, that's why it's just, like, a lot of

885
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:44,760
 these don't make sense.

886
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,200
 I'm going to let other commissioners talk, yeah, Commissioner Thaggard.

887
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:54,000
 Thank you, Chair, and maybe we already reviewed this and I'm sorry if I missed something here.

888
01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:00,360
 It seems like such, like, an arbitrary, like, little spot in a sea of blue from the original

889
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:01,360
 plan.

890
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:07,760
 So, can you please explain to me one more time, like, what the impetus was for modifying

891
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,920
 the original plan?

892
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,960
 For modifying the future land use map?

893
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:14,960
 Yes.

894
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:19,660
 So, the property is approximately seven acres, so staff felt that it would have a larger

895
01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:24,360
 implication if it were to change on the surrounding land uses moving forward, but also due to

896
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:29,600
 the fact that it'd be located next to light industrial use.

897
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,720
 Okay.

898
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:40,760
 And the current owner, or is this -- I need to understand this piece of land particularly

899
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:41,760
 a little bit better.

900
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:42,760
 I think she missed the first part of your presentation.

901
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:43,760
 Yeah, read right here.

902
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:44,760
 This is what?

903
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:45,760
 This is the background.

904
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:46,760
 Okay, sorry.

905
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:47,760
 Yep.

906
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:48,760
 Sorry.

907
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:53,560
 And this material was also included in the AIS that we provided in your packet, but in

908
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,960
 short, we have an applicant who has received land that you're interested in developing

909
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:03,400
 a micro home community to be able to assist with persons that are experiencing homelessness,

910
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,920
 also being able to provide those support services and commercial services to be able to help

911
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,880
 with skill development for those residents.

912
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:14,040
 So, as a result of us receiving that application and knowing that it significantly differs from

913
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,680
 our land use plan recommendations in this area, ultimately, we're going to be having

914
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,240
 a city council or a conversation with city council about the appropriateness of residential

915
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:28,840
 spaces within this area, and we wanted to get the commission's feedback first.

916
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:37,880
 Is there any way that we could bring this back and talk about more than just option

917
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:38,880
 one, two, and three?

918
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,000
 Are we allowed to have that discussion, or is that not a discussion that we can have?

919
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,000
 I really don't know.

920
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:51,560
 So, we're posted to discuss -- Exactly what we're doing right now.

921
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:52,560
 Yes, correct.

922
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:59,680
 I think it's within our -- I'm looking at the caption one more time.

923
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:07,240
 Yeah, and I know today we can't, but I guess what I'm asking for is can we restate it at

924
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:13,480
 a future work session to include this and possibly be able to discuss the reason that

925
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,880
 we're actually having this discussion?

926
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:21,920
 Basically, how far deep in the details can we get without compromising the public hearing

927
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,880
 associated with the zoning change?

928
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:24,880
 Correct.

929
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,880
 Right.

930
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:32,520
 And maybe we can't, and that's why we can't do anything more than what was stated earlier

931
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:39,720
 by Vice Chair Prudence, Commissioner Riel, where we would just have to let the applicant

932
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:40,720
 come forward.

933
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,840
 So -- I think that's where we're at.

934
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:43,840
 Okay.

935
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:44,840
 Okay.

936
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:45,840
 Thank you.

937
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:46,840
 Commissioner Prudence.

938
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:47,840
 Yeah, I'm in agreement as well.

939
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,320
 I just think that there's just a lot of limited information before making a recommendation

940
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:58,080
 on any proposed changes, so I agree to just remain as is under the current law.

941
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:04,280
 Commissioner Thagat, I didn't actually get your opinion of options in when you had the

942
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,280
 floor.

943
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:06,280
 Do you -- And I'm very --

944
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:11,520
 I don't want to put you on the spot -- I'm very familiar with now that --

945
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:12,520
 Yep.

946
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:20,160
 -- I definitely think that incorporating -- again, I think we need to have a full picture

947
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,960
 of what's going on.

948
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:28,640
 I feel like not discussing what the families in Crum that are backing up to this piece

949
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:33,960
 of property, how they feel about it, because any email that you've gotten, I've heard

950
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,160
 in conversation.

951
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:41,160
 So I just -- I do -- I think that there's -- I think that there's a bigger picture here.

952
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,800
 We need more -- we need to look at it a little bit deeper.

953
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:50,800
 So what they're asking us today is, you're not ready to say we should change the future

954
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:52,960
 land use as -- is that correct?

955
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:53,960
 Correct.

956
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:54,960
 Okay, so --

957
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,080
 Yeah, I'm with -- I'm with Jordan.

958
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:58,080
 Yeah.

959
01:04:58,080 --> 01:04:59,080
 I'm for option four right now.

960
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:00,080
 Yeah, yeah.

961
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:09,160
 So I mean, that's where we all are, unfortunately, just because, again, it's -- there's unanswered

962
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:14,400
 specific questions that we probably all would want to be able to go forward and say any

963
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:19,800
 of these options are good, because honestly, again, you never did we discuss low residential

964
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:20,800
 in this area.

965
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:21,800
 It doesn't even make sense.

966
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,800
 You know, I'm not saying -- this doesn't make sense.

967
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:30,280
 What we're not talking about, what I'm saying is this, that you've printed for us, doesn't

968
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,120
 make sense.

969
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:39,520
 And it continues to not, you know, again, we would just be, you know, I don't know,

970
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,240
 you know, what is this?

971
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:46,680
 This one is proposed moderate residential, but again, you know, nothing that was ever

972
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:52,160
 talked about in detail when we did this future land use, you know, look not that even that

973
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:53,160
 long ago.

974
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:59,440
 So, yeah, I don't know if that helps, hurts, or what you want to do going forward.

975
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,640
 I'm going to let you all probably go back to the drawing board and see if there is any

976
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:10,400
 way that maybe we could have this conversation again that could help you all help the applicant,

977
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,200
 because obviously, that's what you're trying to do here, and that makes perfect sense.

978
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,920
 But I think what you're asking us all to do is an impossible task, and I think that's

979
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:26,240
 what just -- was just showed, that you've got a unanimous commission here who cannot

980
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:28,760
 move forward with any of these options right now.

981
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:33,120
 So if you all can get with legal, if there is a way that we can have another discussion,

982
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,400
 I think we all would be on board for having another discussion if there are things that

983
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:42,960
 we -- you know, if it's worth that, or if we just have to have the applicant move forward.

984
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:43,960
 So go back.

985
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:49,480
 I was going to say, let us circle back with our legal team and find out if we can have

986
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:55,200
 any greater level of detail of conversation and what that might look like, and if we can,

987
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,920
 then we'll bring it back for the commission's discussion.

988
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:04,200
 And then, if not, then we'll move forward so far with the feedback that we have, which

989
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:08,080
 is very clear that the commission's not comfortable with amending the future land use plan at

990
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:12,400
 this time, because you want to see additional information regarding the request.

991
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,840
 Because the next available option could be that we go ahead and move forward with the

992
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:20,000
 applicant processing their zoning case and then also submitting a comprehensive plan amendment

993
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:25,000
 in considering that option, but we have committed to having the conversation with city council

994
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:26,000
 as well.

995
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,000
 Sure.

996
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,000
 So we'll figure out what our options are.

997
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,000
 Okay.

998
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,000
 Great.

999
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,000
 Okay.

1000
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,000
 Thank you very much, Kim.

1001
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:33,000
 Thank you.

1002
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,000
 We appreciate it.

1003
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,440
 With that, I'll go ahead and adjourn our work session at 621 p.m., and we will reconvene

1004
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:45,600
 in council chambers as close to 630 as possible.

1005
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,920
 Good evening, and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for

1006
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,320
 Wednesday, October 9th, 2024.

1007
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,740
 For the core and present, I'll call us to order at 635 p.m.

1008
01:07:56,740 --> 01:07:59,720
 Sorry for our tardiness, and thank you for your patience.

1009
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,660
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas Flags.

1010
01:08:03,660 --> 01:08:12,360
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

1011
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:21,960
 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

1012
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:33,360
 For the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state, under God, one and indivisible.

1013
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,400
 Right.

1014
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:41,120
 Our first item of business is consider the approval of our minutes from the September

1015
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:45,200
 25th meeting.

1016
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:46,200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1017
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:47,200
 Move approval.

1018
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,200
 Commissioner Pedro.

1019
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:49,200
 Second.

1020
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:50,200
 Okay.

1021
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,640
 Any discussion?

1022
01:08:52,640 --> 01:09:00,000
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1023
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,120
 That motion carries 5-0.

1024
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:07,360
 That will take us to our consent agenda this evening.

1025
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:08,360
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1026
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:09,360
 Move approval.

1027
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:10,360
 Commissioner Thaggard.

1028
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:11,360
 Approve.

1029
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:12,360
 Second.

1030
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:13,360
 Second?

1031
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:14,360
 Yeah, thank you.

1032
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:20,440
 We've got a first and a second to approve the consent agenda, so no discussion.

1033
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:27,080
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1034
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:28,560
 That motion carries 5-0.

1035
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,360
 That will take us to item for individual consideration.

1036
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:32,360
 We have 1-2-day.

1037
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,700
 It is 4-A, PP240006.

1038
01:09:36,700 --> 01:09:37,700
 Sean is here for presentation.

1039
01:09:37,700 --> 01:09:38,700
 Hello.

1040
01:09:38,700 --> 01:09:40,700
 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

1041
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:45,440
 Let me just go ahead and get my presentation loaded here.

1042
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:48,240
 There we go.

1043
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:49,240
 All right.

1044
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:50,240
 1-2-4.

1045
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:51,240
 All right.

1046
01:09:51,240 --> 01:10:00,800
 So this is a preliminary plat, PP240006, the RM2 Denton edition, approximately 363 acre

1047
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:01,960
 plat.

1048
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:07,440
 At this time, they do not meet our criteria for approval, so staff is recommending denial,

1049
01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:12,180
 but staff has no objection to request extension, which will be granted to a date certain of

1050
01:10:12,180 --> 01:10:17,800
 October 23rd, 2024, and this is their first request for an extension.

1051
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:18,800
 Happy to stand for any questions.

1052
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:19,800
 Thank you.

1053
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:20,800
 Sean?

1054
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:21,800
 Questions for Sean?

1055
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,400
 I didn't get an answer in the work session, though.

1056
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:25,400
 Okay.

1057
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:26,400
 Thank you very much.

1058
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:27,400
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1059
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:32,440
 We've approved the extension request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

1060
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:33,440
 Thank you.

1061
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:34,440
 Commissioner Thaggard.

1062
01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:35,440
 Second.

1063
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:39,720
 We have a second to approve the extension request to a date certain of October 23rd,

1064
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,760
 2024 discussion.

1065
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,020
 Okay.

1066
01:10:43,020 --> 01:10:49,040
 Let's vote, please.

1067
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:50,680
 That motion carries 5-0.

1068
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:58,680
 That will take us to our public hearings today, first being 5AMPA240002.

1069
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:03,680
 It was listed on the agenda that staff is requesting this item be postponed until the

1070
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:08,360
 October 23rd P&Z meeting.

1071
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:17,300
 I will open that public hearing and look to my fellow commissioners for a move to postpone.

1072
01:11:17,300 --> 01:11:18,300
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1073
01:11:18,300 --> 01:11:23,520
 We've approved the postponement request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

1074
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:24,520
 Thank you.

1075
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:25,520
 Commissioner Perdomo?

1076
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:26,520
 I second.

1077
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:27,520
 Okay.

1078
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,400
 With that public hearing left open, we've got a motion on the floor to approve the postponement

1079
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,320
 until a date certain of October 23rd.

1080
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:36,320
 Any discussion?

1081
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:37,320
 Okay.

1082
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:46,200
 Let's vote, please.

1083
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:47,960
 That motion carries 5-0.

1084
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:54,120
 That will take us to 5B, MPA240004.

1085
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,720
 With similar posting on the agenda, staff is requesting this item be postponed until

1086
01:11:57,720 --> 01:11:59,840
 October 23rd.

1087
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,220
 I will go ahead and open that public hearing.

1088
01:12:03,220 --> 01:12:04,220
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1089
01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:08,960
 Move approval of the postponement request to a date certain of October 23rd, 2024.

1090
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:09,960
 Thank you.

1091
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:10,960
 Commissioner Thaggard?

1092
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:11,960
 Second.

1093
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:16,400
 We've got a first and a second to postpone this item to October 23rd with the public

1094
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,280
 hearing being left open on that item.

1095
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:20,280
 Discussion?

1096
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:21,280
 Okay.

1097
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:28,600
 Let's vote, please.

1098
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,280
 That motion carries 5-0.

1099
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:36,440
 That will take us to 5C, AESA240001.

1100
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:37,680
 Christy is here for presentation.

1101
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,480
 I will open that public hearing.

1102
01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:44,960
 Thank you, Commissioners.

1103
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:55,080
 Christy Upton, Environmental Compliance Coordinator, and tonight I will be presenting an alternative

1104
01:12:55,080 --> 01:13:02,440
 ESA plan for Grand Parkside.

1105
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:08,040
 Alternative ESA plans are a proposal for a mitigation plan for environmentally sensitive

1106
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:09,040
 areas.

1107
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:16,040
 When a development is proposing to encroach into or deviate from protection requirements

1108
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:20,440
 that are listed in the Denton Development Code to protect those environmentally sensitive

1109
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:27,040
 areas, this is a flexible and discretionary process by which the Commissioners make a

1110
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:32,960
 recommendation to the City Council for an ordinance that will be adopted approving this

1111
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:37,640
 plan and adopting it for enactment by the property owner.

1112
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:43,920
 As you know, the Commission has an opportunity to weigh in and to make any modifications

1113
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:50,120
 to the recommendations that the staff made tonight.

1114
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:58,280
 So this particular project will be seeking to modify 1.46 acres of what is referred to

1115
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:00,720
 as undeveloped floodplain.

1116
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:08,400
 The resulting floodplain will result in meeting the criteria for approval for drainage and

1117
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:09,400
 flood control.

1118
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:17,480
 It will be landscaped using native grasses, flowers, trees, and include one rain garden.

1119
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:20,400
 And staff is recommending approval.

1120
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:28,680
 The site is northeast of the intersection of Country Club Road and Hobson Lane, US 377

1121
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:35,560
 is here in the corner to give you reference of overall the property.

1122
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:42,840
 The preliminary plot was approved in August, and this is for approximately 19 acres of

1123
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,480
 a residentially zoned property.

1124
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:55,520
 The resulting development will result in the reconstruction of this area of land that is

1125
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,080
 currently considered undeveloped floodplain.

1126
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:05,920
 So there's no riparian vegetation, there's really no native vegetation on this land.

1127
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:15,360
 This was previously a rural use, and this open space, because of the shape of the land,

1128
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:22,600
 is considered by FEMA to be an approximate location of the 100-year floodplain.

1129
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:32,560
 This area has been studied since this plan was put together, and that study of the floodplain

1130
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:38,840
 shows that there's really not a 1% floodplain on the property.

1131
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:47,320
 Post-construction, this area will have a different drainage pattern than it's shown today.

1132
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:53,200
 The mitigation plan post the construction of that floodplain will result in floodplain

1133
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:57,600
 with native grasses, flowering plants, and trees.

1134
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:05,400
 There will be one rain garden that will be installed on this common area lot near the

1135
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:10,320
 central east side of the property.

1136
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:18,760
 Rain gardens are designed to intercept residential runoff and both slow down the water, uptake

1137
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:29,800
 pollutants, and to further improve ecological services to the area.

1138
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:37,480
 I want to go over a little bit the conventional design of a residential development's drainage

1139
01:16:37,480 --> 01:16:39,240
 patterns.

1140
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:49,360
 So in this particular development, the drainage pattern is that it receives flow from a little

1141
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:55,040
 bit northeast of this rain garden, and then would traverse across the property, enter

1142
01:16:55,040 --> 01:17:03,680
 into a storm drain, and then would be discharged directly into the drainage soil along Hopson

1143
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,600
 Lane.

1144
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:15,760
 In this mitigation plan, they're proposing to install this rain garden, which is anticipated

1145
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:19,160
 to help improve the stormwater runoff.

1146
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:26,320
 One of the issues with residential properties, as all residential properties, there's discharges

1147
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:32,080
 of pollutants, dog waste in the yard is an example.

1148
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:39,440
 The bacteria gets picked up by the rainwater and gets discharged directly to the next discharge

1149
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:41,400
 point.

1150
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:48,440
 When you install something like these structures, the anticipated result is that it intercepts

1151
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:56,400
 that flow, and then causes for the rainwater to slow down, get infiltrated through the

1152
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:04,440
 soils, where the bacteria from that dog waste, we get sequestered into the soils, break down

1153
01:18:04,440 --> 01:18:13,920
 further, and then it's no longer a discharge of concern to the storm drainage system.

1154
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:20,600
 There were notifications sent to the surrounding property owners, and we did receive, staff

1155
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:30,040
 received one response from a property owner in favor of the project.

1156
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,200
 This is the staff's recommendations.

1157
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:36,600
 This is in your backup to kind of give you some highlights.

1158
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:43,320
 These recommendations are to ensure that the project is completed, as is described in the

1159
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:53,320
 alternative ESA plan document, that there will be an acceptance period, so a growth

1160
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:58,720
 period of the vegetation, and then an acceptance by environmental services.

1161
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:59,720
 I apologize.

1162
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:07,360
 I did not get a chance to update this slide, but environmental services is proposing requirement

1163
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:14,680
 of one educational sign on the property.

1164
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:23,560
 The remainder of this is just the follow-up of ensuring the lifelong maintenance of the

1165
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:28,560
 rain garden and the other vegetation that's being proposed across the property.

1166
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,520
 With that, I'll take any questions.

1167
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:32,240
 Thank you, Kristi.

1168
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,360
 Questions for staff?

1169
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:35,360
 No?

1170
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,120
 I think we probably asked them all at work session.

1171
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:40,120
 Thank you.

1172
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:43,080
 The applicant is here if you wanted to ask him any questions.

1173
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:44,080
 Excellent.

1174
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:51,520
 Yeah, I was going to say I do have a card from the applicant, Thomas Fletcher.

1175
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:52,520
 Good evening.

1176
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,560
 Good evening, Chair and commissioners.

1177
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:59,440
 Thomas Fletcher with Kimley-Horn, 6160 Warren Parkway, Frisco, Texas.

1178
01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:02,720
 I am the applicant for the owners of this tract of land.

1179
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:06,960
 I did hear that there were some questions regarding the neighborhood outreach, so I did

1180
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:10,920
 want to get up and talk about that briefly and then see if there were any additional

1181
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,880
 questions that you may have regarding the project.

1182
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:19,080
 I do want to thank Kristi for her support and help through this process.

1183
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:25,640
 I know anytime we do the alternate ESA, we're trying to provide benefit that may not be

1184
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:27,600
 there present today.

1185
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,520
 This particular project is undeveloped floodplain ESA.

1186
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:39,120
 It is currently a pasture or pasture grasses, primarily zoysia, so with the mitigation plan,

1187
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:44,140
 we are proposing to bring in more native plant material, the rain garden, and provide some

1188
01:20:44,140 --> 01:20:48,400
 ecological benefit that may not necessarily be there today.

1189
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:54,380
 The owners of this tract of land, Mr. Vanderlaan and Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith actually lives across

1190
01:20:54,380 --> 01:20:59,720
 the street from this tract of land and has good relationships with all the surrounding

1191
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:01,000
 owners.

1192
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,920
 So when we talked about neighborhood outreach and whether we wanted to do a neighborhood

1193
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:09,200
 meeting or something like that, because most of the surrounding property owners aren't

1194
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:14,700
 within an HOA, we decided that we would put a letter together kind of explaining this

1195
01:21:14,700 --> 01:21:20,940
 request along with the exhibit that shows the overall improvements that we are proposing.

1196
01:21:20,940 --> 01:21:22,880
 And I've got a copy of that letter here.

1197
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:31,240
 I don't know if you want to utilize the screen to look at it or not, but the exhibit that

1198
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,880
 we provided them was the exhibit that's in your package that shows the rain garden and

1199
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,640
 the open areas.

1200
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:42,320
 Mr. Vanderlaan did reach out to the neighbors individually and had conversations with them.

1201
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:46,520
 He let them know that if they had any additional questions, they could give me a call and I'd

1202
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:48,240
 be happy to speak with them.

1203
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:54,800
 I did receive one call from the neighbor that's directly to the east, Mr. Weingart, and he

1204
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:59,440
 had some concerns, really just kind of wanted to understand the development, what was being

1205
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:02,800
 developed, how drainage was being accounted for.

1206
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:04,480
 So I walked him through that process.

1207
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:11,020
 I let him know that we're, we haven't, well, we're in the process of starting the construction

1208
01:22:11,020 --> 01:22:18,080
 plans and we would do the design through that process and we'll show all the drainage

1209
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,080
 patterns, how we're accounting for offsite runoff.

1210
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:25,320
 And I let him know that within a few weeks, we should have some additional information

1211
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:29,720
 and I would give him a call to further answer his questions and meet with him if he would

1212
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:30,720
 like to meet.

1213
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:37,680
 But the outreach was done by Mr. Vanderlaan and I did speak with one of the neighbors

1214
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:41,460
 and didn't get any other requests for additional information.

1215
01:22:41,460 --> 01:22:45,480
 With that, I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding this

1216
01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:46,480
 request.

1217
01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:49,520
 - Thank you, Mr. Fletcher.

1218
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:50,520
 Any questions?

1219
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:51,520
 Okay.

1220
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:52,520
 Thank you.

1221
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:55,040
 Thanks for being here.

1222
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,480
 Thank you for that explanation as well.

1223
01:22:57,480 --> 01:22:58,480
 Yeah.

1224
01:22:58,480 --> 01:22:59,480
 - Absolutely.

1225
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:00,480
 - That's great info.

1226
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:01,480
 - Thank you.

1227
01:23:01,480 --> 01:23:02,480
 Appreciate it.

1228
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:03,480
 - Okay.

1229
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:04,480
 This is a public hearing.

1230
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:07,520
 I don't have any other cards in front of me for this item, but you are welcome to speak

1231
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:12,080
 and you can fill a card out later if there is anyone else wishing to speak on this.

1232
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:13,080
 Okay.

1233
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,540
 With that, I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing and open the dance for

1234
01:23:17,540 --> 01:23:22,280
 a motion or discussion.

1235
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:23,280
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1236
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:27,200
 - I'll move approval as presented.

1237
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,120
 - Great.

1238
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,560
 I will second that.

1239
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:34,040
 The first and a second for approval as presented.

1240
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:35,520
 Is there any discussion?

1241
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:36,520
 Okay.

1242
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:47,480
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1243
01:23:47,480 --> 01:23:49,680
 That motion will carry five, zero.

1244
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:55,440
 Our next public hearing item is 5D AESA 240002.

1245
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:57,400
 Go ahead and open that public hearing.

1246
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:04,040
 Christy's here for presentation of that item.

1247
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:12,080
 And with your permission, I will summarize some of this a little bit more quickly since

1248
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:19,280
 there's a lot of similarities between this plan and the previous one.

1249
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:20,280
 That's okay with everyone?

1250
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:21,280
 Okay.

1251
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,880
 - Yeah, I think it gets the specifics of this property is certainly, I think, fine with

1252
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:25,880
 everyone.

1253
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:26,880
 - Okay.

1254
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:27,880
 All right.

1255
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:34,240
 So this particular one is for a property that is called Dentex.

1256
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:40,160
 This is at the northeast corner of the intersection of John Payne and Johnson Road.

1257
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:49,080
 And it was a subject of a amended comprehensive plan and zoning case that was approved in

1258
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:56,240
 August for 52 acres of residential property and 21 acres of commercial residential high

1259
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:57,560
 density.

1260
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:02,120
 The alternative ESA plan is really focusing on the residential property.

1261
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:07,000
 So we will dial in on that.

1262
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:15,120
 The field assessment, again, we received information supporting that there's no riparian vegetation.

1263
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:22,600
 This was, for years, has been used as an agricultural use and the floodplain is generally in its

1264
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:28,640
 natural state, so hence we were regulating it as undeveloped floodplain because it hasn't

1265
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:34,680
 been modified or filled in in the past.

1266
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:43,560
 So the mitigation plan is, again, to establish native grasses, flowering plants, trees across

1267
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:44,560
 the property.

1268
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:49,920
 I wanted to dial in a little bit on the plant selections here.

1269
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:56,360
 We carefully discussed plant discussions with this particular property because that spine

1270
01:25:56,360 --> 01:26:03,800
 there is actually a drainage, it's going to be a drainage swale when the construction

1271
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:05,160
 is finished.

1272
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:10,920
 And that conveyance of the water through the property, the lowest point in that conveyance

1273
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,760
 will remain moist soils.

1274
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:21,560
 And so we made sure that the selection of the native grasses and flowering plants is

1275
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:29,000
 appropriate for the type of soils that are, you know, the final environment that these

1276
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:33,720
 plants will be growing in.

1277
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:37,200
 The applicant is also proposing three rain gardens on this property.

1278
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:43,880
 There will be one at the western corner near the center of the property and this one a

1279
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:48,920
 little bit northeast of the other two.

1280
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:54,000
 And that rain garden will follow the same design standards as described in the previous

1281
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,040
 public hearing.

1282
01:26:56,040 --> 01:27:03,600
 Again, notifications were made and staff did not receive any formal responses.

1283
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:12,440
 We did receive a few inquiries about the project and responded to those in kind.

1284
01:27:12,440 --> 01:27:17,600
 And then the recommendations are very similar to the last public hearing.

1285
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:27,360
 Here, actually two signs are being requested and other than that, you know, just following

1286
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:33,880
 through with making sure that the product is installed as described and then that there

1287
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:38,680
 is a plan for post-construction of the development.

1288
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:43,560
 And with that, I'll stand for any questions on this one.

1289
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:44,560
 Great.

1290
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:45,560
 Thank you, Lucy.

1291
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:46,560
 Any questions?

1292
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:47,560
 Commissioner Pruitt?

1293
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:48,560
 Thank you, Chair.

1294
01:27:48,560 --> 01:28:00,440
 Just one, I noticed that the current, you know, ESA would flow under two of the roadways

1295
01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:04,400
 within the proposed ESA plan.

1296
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:11,020
 I also noticed that it's on our wildlife corridor plan.

1297
01:28:11,020 --> 01:28:16,820
 Are there, I would assume that there's some sort of culvert under the roads or something

1298
01:28:16,820 --> 01:28:19,600
 for drainage.

1299
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:27,280
 Are there any best practices that we employ when a road is crossing an area that's on

1300
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:32,960
 the wildlife mitigation plan to make sure that we're not allowing that infrastructure

1301
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:34,200
 to cut off that plan?

1302
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:35,200
 Does that make sense?

1303
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,200
 Yeah, it makes sense.

1304
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:42,480
 However, there is no conversations being had with the applicants about this at this time

1305
01:28:42,480 --> 01:28:49,480
 because the wildlife corridor concept has not been implemented into a plan.

1306
01:28:49,480 --> 01:28:57,480
 So until there is a plan or a policy set, staff does not have the authority to really

1307
01:28:57,480 --> 01:29:06,000
 go there with the applicants, happy to share any information that we can find and we can

1308
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:13,560
 ask nicely if they're interested in implementing any of that, but at this time, that's about

1309
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:14,560
 as far as we can go.

1310
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:15,560
 Okay.

1311
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:16,560
 Thank you.

1312
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:17,560
 Thank you.

1313
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,360
 Anything else for Christie?

1314
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:20,360
 Okay.

1315
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:27,640
 I do have another card for Mr. Fletcher, and I will let him come up and speak to this.

1316
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:28,640
 Good evening.

1317
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:31,680
 Thomas Fletcher, Kimley Horne, 6160 Warren Parkway.

1318
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:36,400
 I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you on this project as well.

1319
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:40,960
 Commissioner Pruitt, just to, I guess, address your question that you had for Christie, those

1320
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:47,820
 two roadway crossings, due to the amount of flow, there will be multiple barrel box culverts.

1321
01:29:47,820 --> 01:29:51,880
 If I'm not mistaken, we've already gone through and done our downstream assessment, our clomer

1322
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,980
 that has been approved through the city process.

1323
01:29:54,980 --> 01:29:58,360
 I believe they're five by fives, like a triple.

1324
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:03,640
 So there should be, when you install the box culvert, they're installed at the flow line,

1325
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:09,320
 so animals moving through that corridor will have the ability, it's not going to be some

1326
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:16,120
 small pipe that would prevent them from crossing through that area or cause them to go around

1327
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,120
 onto the road to where they could get hit or something like that.

1328
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:29,320
 So it should be able to adequately allow animals, wildlife to maneuver through that area.

1329
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:33,720
 As far as the neighborhood meeting, when we went through, this property was under a restrictive

1330
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:34,720
 covenant.

1331
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,360
 We went through the process to annex and then zone.

1332
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:45,500
 When we went through zoning, country lakes north, phase five B is what's adjacent to

1333
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:46,600
 us to the south.

1334
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:50,120
 It's a relatively newer development.

1335
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:54,200
 There's a lot of houses in there that are still builder owned.

1336
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:58,940
 When we did the zoning, what we did is we went through and we took letters and information

1337
01:30:58,940 --> 01:31:05,440
 on the project and kind of hand delivered that, took that around to all the owner occupied

1338
01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:06,600
 houses.

1339
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:08,600
 So we took a similar approach with this.

1340
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:12,780
 We prepared a letter, which I have, and then we prepared several exhibits.

1341
01:31:12,780 --> 01:31:19,640
 We showed the ESA exhibit, but we also showed, with our development, we've got a ZCP that's

1342
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:24,540
 under review right now, and one of the things that we have to look at is there's a street

1343
01:31:24,540 --> 01:31:30,840
 tree requirement, and when you have developments, you, a lot of times because of the number

1344
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:35,480
 of street trees that are required with driveways and other things that impact your ability

1345
01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:39,360
 to place those street trees, you end up placing them in open spaces.

1346
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:45,500
 So not only are we doing the ESA mitigation that has the three rain gardens, we're also

1347
01:31:45,500 --> 01:31:50,040
 doing additional tree plantings that are going to be along that corridor.

1348
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:51,040
 We have the trail.

1349
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:55,560
 The trail isn't part of the mitigation, but we've been working with the Parks Department,

1350
01:31:55,560 --> 01:32:00,600
 and I know they wanted to have a corridor through here because there's parkland to our,

1351
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,780
 to our east that we're adjacent to.

1352
01:32:03,780 --> 01:32:06,140
 So we had information.

1353
01:32:06,140 --> 01:32:08,000
 I did talk to one homeowner.

1354
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:09,620
 It was a relatively new homeowner.

1355
01:32:09,620 --> 01:32:13,200
 He was a, on the fire department, I believe in Flower Mound.

1356
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:17,040
 I don't recall his name, but he called, left me a voicemail.

1357
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:18,400
 I called him back and we talked.

1358
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:24,760
 I explained the project to him and answered, I believe I adequately answered all his questions.

1359
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:28,120
 He appreciated the additional information.

1360
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:33,240
 That was, actually that was through email correspondence, and I did provide that to

1361
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:34,720
 the city.

1362
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:41,120
 So didn't have any other inquiries on the project, but happy to answer any questions

1363
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:42,120
 that you may have.

1364
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,440
 There are going to be two retention ponds.

1365
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:45,640
 Those will be wet ponds.

1366
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:51,280
 So those will also provide a water quality and a habitat benefit to the project also.

1367
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:54,840
 And appreciate your time tonight and happy to answer any, any questions.

1368
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:57,320
 Thank you, Mr. Fletcher.

1369
01:32:57,320 --> 01:32:58,840
 Any questions?

1370
01:32:58,840 --> 01:32:59,840
 Yeah.

1371
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:03,240
 Thank you, and while I have you up there, thank you for that correspondence.

1372
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:07,240
 It was shared with us and yeah, you went back and forth a few times with this resident and

1373
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:08,460
 his questions and it was great.

1374
01:33:08,460 --> 01:33:13,640
 It was, yeah, you provided him a lot of information and we couldn't ask for anything more than

1375
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:14,640
 that.

1376
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:15,640
 Thank you very much.

1377
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:16,640
 Absolutely.

1378
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:17,640
 Thank you for your time.

1379
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:18,640
 Appreciate it.

1380
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:19,640
 This is a public hearing.

1381
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,440
 I don't have any other cards on this item.

1382
01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:24,640
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item?

1383
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,000
 Okay.

1384
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:31,320
 Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and open the floor for a motion

1385
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:32,320
 or discussion.

1386
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:33,320
 Commission approved.

1387
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:34,320
 I'll move approval as presented.

1388
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:35,320
 Commissioner Fagarin?

1389
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:36,320
 Second.

1390
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:37,320
 Okay.

1391
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,920
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

1392
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,080
 Any discussion?

1393
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:48,800
 Let me just say before we vote, great presentation, Christy, Mr. Fletcher, the information you

1394
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:56,480
 provided us in the reports were extensive and very detailed and this is always a hard

1395
01:33:56,480 --> 01:34:04,720
 concept to explain and understand and between the two of you, you presented it beautifully

1396
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:10,960
 and it was easy to understand and so we know exactly what is happening here and what we're

1397
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:11,960
 voting on.

1398
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:13,760
 So thank you very much for that.

1399
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:15,280
 First and a second for approval.

1400
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,240
 Anything else before we vote?

1401
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:18,240
 Okay.

1402
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:24,840
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1403
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,280
 That motion carries 5-0.

1404
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:33,680
 That will take us to public hearing 5E, Z-240013.

1405
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:34,880
 Ashley is here for presentation.

1406
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:36,400
 I will open the public hearing.

1407
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:41,760
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission.

1408
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:43,520
 Ashley Eckstead, Associate Planner.

1409
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:48,600
 This is Z-2413, I-35 RV Supercenter.

1410
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:53,480
 This is a request to rezone approximately 0.36 acres of land from a general office zoning

1411
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:56,340
 district to a highway corridor zoning district.

1412
01:34:56,340 --> 01:34:59,920
 This property is currently undeveloped but it will be plotted as part of the existing

1413
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:02,560
 RV sales use to the south and the east.

1414
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:07,000
 The purpose of this rezoning is to address the nonconformities on that RV sales use lot

1415
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:11,880
 and those are nonconforming land use and zoning setback requirements.

1416
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:16,840
 The future land use is light industrial and light industrial does support associated supporting

1417
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:21,720
 uses such as retail and the purpose of the HC zoning district is to provide high intensity

1418
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,960
 commercial uses along the city's busiest and most visible thoroughfares and highly visible

1419
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:30,940
 commercial corridors and this is along I-35E.

1420
01:35:30,940 --> 01:35:32,840
 It does meet the criteria for approval.

1421
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,520
 It's consistent with the goals and policies of the future land use map, the comprehensive

1422
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:40,320
 plan and it's also consistent with the HC zoning purpose statement.

1423
01:35:40,320 --> 01:35:44,440
 It's not expected to generate adverse impacts and it's not expected to have adverse impacts

1424
01:35:44,440 --> 01:35:47,760
 on surrounding properties.

1425
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:48,760
 Notification was done.

1426
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,480
 I posted in the newspaper and on the website and the sign was posted on the property.

1427
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:56,680
 We mailed out notices to everyone within 500 feet and we did not receive any responses

1428
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:59,600
 in opposition or in favor.

1429
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:03,360
 Staff does recommend approval as it meets our criteria for approval and I'm happy to

1430
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:05,520
 answer any questions.

1431
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,120
 Thank you very much Ashley.

1432
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:08,920
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1433
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:09,920
 Thank you Chair.

1434
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:10,920
 Thank you Ashley.

1435
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:16,040
 I meant to ask this during the work session but if this isn't approved today would the

1436
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:22,200
 strip of property remain nonconforming going forward and would they I guess they could

1437
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:27,080
 still operate on the property line but they couldn't expand past their current?

1438
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:28,080
 Correct.

1439
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:32,360
 And we haven't discussed in detail what would happen if this wasn't approved but they could

1440
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:36,640
 continue nonconforming but since we did make them get the permits for the buildings we

1441
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:41,740
 didn't want to approve a permit for a building across the property line.

1442
01:36:41,740 --> 01:36:45,200
 So we haven't had detailed discussions yet of what would occur if this weren't to be

1443
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:46,200
 approved.

1444
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:47,200
 Gotcha.

1445
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:48,200
 Thank you.

1446
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:51,200
 Any other questions for Ashley?

1447
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:54,320
 Yeah and you said they did oh Commissioner Perot go ahead.

1448
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,720
 Thank you Chair.

1449
01:36:56,720 --> 01:37:01,800
 It may just be the the registration of the lines on GIS but when I went back and looked

1450
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:11,520
 at this it looks like a parcel either within the same use or just to the south is has a

1451
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:17,000
 PD with you know something like that is it helped me understand is that attached to the

1452
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:22,200
 same owner operator or is that a separate parcel and it just looks like it's overlapping

1453
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:23,200
 the parking lot?

1454
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:29,480
 So that is part of the same RV sales use and that was a PD from 2007 and it required it

1455
01:37:29,480 --> 01:37:35,360
 was for this RV sales use it required 50 foot pavement in the display areas along 35 and

1456
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:36,360
 landscaping.

1457
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:46,680
 Okay so I guess my question with that information is are we setting up a situation where once

1458
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:51,640
 they do a minor replat we'll still have split zoning within a parcel or is there some reason

1459
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:58,020
 why that's not a concern here and so we're not asking for a rezoning of that PD in addition

1460
01:37:58,020 --> 01:37:59,020
 to this?

1461
01:37:59,020 --> 01:38:04,240
 So at the time that that when that PD was implemented RV sales wasn't permitted in that

1462
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:09,360
 zoning district along that portion so it is PDHC now and it's just an overlay for that

1463
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:17,040
 additional landscaping and pavement so it's really all the same RV sales use and HC zoning

1464
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:19,880
 so we did not consider rezoning that portion as well.

1465
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:24,520
 Okay that makes sense thank you.

1466
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:25,520
 Any other questions?

1467
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,120
 And you did say in work session that their buildings are now up to code and they have

1468
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:37,920
 their permit to be operating slap on the wrist don't do that.

1469
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:43,480
 Okay thank you this is a public hearing I don't have any cards in front of me for this item

1470
01:38:43,480 --> 01:38:46,400
 but is there anyone wishing to speak on this item?

1471
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:52,320
 Okay seeing none I'm gonna go ahead and close that public hearing and open the floor for

1472
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:58,040
 a motion or discussion.

1473
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:02,440
 I will go ahead and do it I will move approval of the item as presented.

1474
01:39:02,440 --> 01:39:04,000
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1475
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:05,000
 Second.

1476
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:11,120
 We've got a first and a second for approval any discussion on that?

1477
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:21,600
 Okay let's go ahead and vote please.

1478
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:26,720
 That motion carries for one.

1479
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:35,560
 That will move us to our final public hearing item tonight and that is 5F PD 240004.

1480
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:41,820
 That public hearing was left open from our meeting on September 25th and Julie is here

1481
01:39:41,820 --> 01:39:43,240
 for presentation.

1482
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:54,480
 Good evening Julie Wyatt let me pull up the presentation.

1483
01:39:54,480 --> 01:40:08,080
 All right good evening I'm presenting to you PD 240004 villages on McKinney.

1484
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:14,120
 So the request before you is to rezone about 12 acres from R3 to PD6.

1485
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:20,480
 The intent is to facilitate the development of 119 zero lot line dwellings on about 12

1486
01:40:20,480 --> 01:40:21,480
 acres.

1487
01:40:21,480 --> 01:40:27,760
 The project property is located between McKinney and Paisley spanning that those two streets.

1488
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:35,280
 It's about 250 feet wide at its narrowest and about 2000 feet long.

1489
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:40,320
 So it's got an unusual configuration.

1490
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:50,200
 McKinney East McKinney is a secondary arterial Paisley is a collector road.

1491
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:54,520
 So before we get too far into the request I want to talk a little bit about the site

1492
01:40:54,520 --> 01:41:00,360
 data because as I just mentioned it is a bit unusual as we talked about in the work session.

1493
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:05,280
 So I have a map of the property here.

1494
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:11,360
 Not only is it really long and narrow but it also has a public utility easement running

1495
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:20,880
 along the east side that's 42 feet wide which narrows the availability for developable area.

1496
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:28,520
 On the other side of that on the east side of that easement is a drainage channel.

1497
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:33,240
 You can see what that looks like in this photograph right here.

1498
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:38,880
 You could see that the overhead power lines as well as that drainage channel.

1499
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:46,680
 And this photograph just shows kind of from Paisley just how narrow that property is.

1500
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:51,520
 So the applicant as I mentioned is proposing 119 zero lot line dwellings.

1501
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:56,400
 They would be platted on individual lots so the use would be really a single family use.

1502
01:41:56,400 --> 01:41:59,920
 It's really those design considerations that are a little different.

1503
01:41:59,920 --> 01:42:05,760
 Each lot as they're proposed or each dwelling would have four parking spaces on each lot

1504
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:12,980
 plus guest parking, off-street guest parking in the common area centrally located.

1505
01:42:12,980 --> 01:42:18,440
 If you look at the lot configuration here you'll see that the driveway is a little

1506
01:42:18,440 --> 01:42:23,040
 different than what we normally see in front entry driveways.

1507
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:27,520
 Staff talked to the applicant and we wanted to make sure that we had as much uninterrupted

1508
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,920
 sidewalk as possible along the street.

1509
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:36,040
 So that's why they skinned up those driveways at the right of way still allowing cars to

1510
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:42,960
 maneuver in and out but pinching it a little bit so we've got more sidewalk for safe pedestrian

1511
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:46,560
 passage.

1512
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:54,040
 As I mentioned the lot is long and we've got that easement along the east side.

1513
01:42:54,040 --> 01:43:00,200
 They did work with our parks department and DME to allow a 10 foot wide trail throughout

1514
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:06,020
 that utility easement that would be open to the public maintained by the HOA.

1515
01:43:06,020 --> 01:43:10,200
 It would connect to the sidewalk on McKinney and then the sidewalk on Paisley as well as

1516
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:14,680
 some internal connections to the public sidewalk in the development.

1517
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:19,340
 They are also proposing to limit the number of stories on the structures to two stories

1518
01:43:19,340 --> 01:43:21,640
 maximum.

1519
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:26,680
 You'll see on your screen we have what they're intending or what they would like to build

1520
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:32,640
 in terms of one of the potential elevations.

1521
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:36,860
 Also because of the narrowness there's a little difference in the street.

1522
01:43:36,860 --> 01:43:42,020
 So as we mentioned this is a PD and in PDs you do get to make some modifications to those

1523
01:43:42,020 --> 01:43:46,740
 minimum standards and in this instance it's related to the street design.

1524
01:43:46,740 --> 01:43:52,520
 So first of all because it is a really long street we did work with the applicant and

1525
01:43:52,520 --> 01:44:00,160
 they are proposing to have three traffic calming devices, speed cushions on the north and south

1526
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:08,000
 side of the development as well as a traffic circle in the center to make sure people aren't

1527
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:12,400
 just zooming through that long street.

1528
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:17,000
 The street section is a little different than what we typically see within the city of Denton

1529
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:23,180
 so they coordinated with our engineering group to provide a narrower street section.

1530
01:44:23,180 --> 01:44:29,360
 Typically neighborhood streets have a 55 foot wide street section and that accommodates

1531
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:32,880
 33 feet back of curb to back of curb.

1532
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:39,600
 They are proposing to 51 feet so that would be 29 feet back of curb to back of curb.

1533
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:43,640
 As part of that they would have to limit the parking to just one side of the street.

1534
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:51,440
 That would still leave sufficient room for emergency vehicles as well as cars to maneuver

1535
01:44:51,440 --> 01:44:52,440
 through the site.

1536
01:44:52,440 --> 01:44:57,720
 That was another reason that we worked with them on that off street parking to make sure

1537
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:03,680
 that there was adequate parking for guests or Amazon delivery, that sort of thing.

1538
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:11,240
 Also as I mentioned in the work session, they did submit a TIA, it was approved and as part

1539
01:45:11,240 --> 01:45:16,760
 of that they will have to construct a left turn lane into the site onto McKinney to ensure

1540
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:21,900
 that cars turning into the site get out of those travel lanes and are able to maneuver

1541
01:45:21,900 --> 01:45:25,640
 safely into the property.

1542
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:30,120
 They submitted a landscape plan and that would be a part of the ordinance if approved.

1543
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:36,280
 It includes landscape entry features on the south side and the north side to soften the

1544
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:43,960
 entrance into the development, to add some visual interest and to make it a nice gateway

1545
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:45,840
 into the development.

1546
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:51,720
 They're also proposing to modify the landscaping standards on each lot so typically we require

1547
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:57,480
 a certain number of landscaping in the front yard and backyard as well as a lot tree in

1548
01:45:57,480 --> 01:45:58,880
 the city of Denton.

1549
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:04,200
 Because of the narrow lots it really wouldn't all fit and we really did try to get that

1550
01:46:04,200 --> 01:46:10,040
 lot tree but we felt like it was probably best just to have street trees.

1551
01:46:10,040 --> 01:46:15,920
 Once again that also calms traffic to have those street trees so they are proposing to

1552
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:25,080
 have a street tree plus a 10% landscape area in the front yard.

1553
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:30,360
 They're also proposing plaza area and central space in the central area right here.

1554
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:35,840
 And the development is proposing 10% open space.

1555
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:39,760
 So as we analyze this request we first looked at infill.

1556
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:44,640
 So this lot is one of those lots that sort of remained or it kind of grew all around

1557
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:50,840
 it but this lot remained and we looked at the comprehensive plan and what it says about

1558
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:58,720
 infill and the goal LU1 talks about growing compactly that we should in order to achieve

1559
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:02,800
 sound sustainable growth we should have compact development patterns.

1560
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:07,260
 This property is located one and a half miles from downtown and about three quarter mile

1561
01:47:07,260 --> 01:47:11,920
 from loop 288 so it's definitely within our heart of our city.

1562
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:18,240
 It's one of those infill lots so it's consistent with that infill goal of the comprehensive

1563
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:20,200
 plan.

1564
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:28,020
 So at the time of development it will kind of close that gap in the neighborhood fabric

1565
01:47:28,020 --> 01:47:31,720
 allowing some of those streets to continue and to have more connectivity through the

1566
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:33,220
 area.

1567
01:47:33,220 --> 01:47:39,240
 It's also consistent with goal LU3 which is residential products that could be suitable

1568
01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:45,040
 infill in single family neighborhoods and that could include things like town homes, four

1569
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:50,100
 plexus, du plexus and other types of low to moderate density housing.

1570
01:47:50,100 --> 01:47:54,000
 This is a product type we don't often see in Denton.

1571
01:47:54,000 --> 01:48:00,260
 We talked about it today of the areas where we have developments that are similar to this

1572
01:48:00,260 --> 01:48:05,280
 but I'm not aware that we have anything really exactly like this within the city of Denton.

1573
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:11,000
 It's more akin to what we see maybe in a town home but this does provide an alternative

1574
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:16,080
 housing type where someone who wants to own a home but have maybe a smaller lot with less

1575
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:21,520
 maintenance and maybe not share a wall with their neighbor.

1576
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:26,440
 It also is consistent with our housing and urban design goals in that it provides that

1577
01:48:26,440 --> 01:48:34,580
 once again that diverse housing stock, those different options for residential development.

1578
01:48:34,580 --> 01:48:39,040
 And it's also consistent with our urban design principles, things like providing that pedestrian

1579
01:48:39,040 --> 01:48:46,920
 safety with the off street trail and the driveways, improving the overall connectivity, having

1580
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:52,800
 another connection between McKinney and Paisley as well as extending those adjacent neighborhood

1581
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:53,800
 streets.

1582
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:59,560
 It is surrounded by those existing established neighborhoods and it also provides that active

1583
01:48:59,560 --> 01:49:04,000
 recreation for residents.

1584
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:10,600
 But as we've mentioned in other projects and what we talked about in the work session,

1585
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:13,400
 there are competing interests within the comprehensive plan.

1586
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:16,480
 There are things that we have to balance.

1587
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:21,560
 So it conforms to our infill, our housing, our urban design standards but it is not consistent

1588
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:27,640
 with our future land use map on just broad strokes in that it is low residential and

1589
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:34,400
 low residential is intended for single family neighborhoods 1 to 5 dwelling units per acre.

1590
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:40,600
 But it's important to know that the future land use map is that high policy direction.

1591
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:48,120
 It doesn't necessarily account for specific site characteristics or encumbrances or context.

1592
01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:50,880
 And so it is something that we always look at first.

1593
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:55,080
 It's one of the first things we look at when we talk about a project.

1594
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:59,200
 It's a really good reference point for an analysis.

1595
01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:04,520
 But it's not our only consideration because we do have other goals within the comprehensive

1596
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:08,040
 plan that aren't always encompassed by the future land use.

1597
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:13,000
 And that's particularly relevant in infill situations.

1598
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:17,760
 Commissioner Pruitt, you asked about densities at the work session.

1599
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:21,840
 I just dropped this in because I had a spreadsheet.

1600
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:25,260
 Looked at the overall densities of the adjacent developments.

1601
01:50:25,260 --> 01:50:32,520
 We have the residential developments along right here.

1602
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:37,640
 The Maple Leaf Homes, that's a townhome development right along McKinney.

1603
01:50:37,640 --> 01:50:41,240
 The density is consistent with this proposal.

1604
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:46,160
 The multi-family adjacent to and south of the development, those are a little bit denser.

1605
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:53,280
 You can see we've got anywhere from 16 to 20 dwelling units per acre.

1606
01:50:53,280 --> 01:50:58,000
 Public outreach was sent out, and this map's a little out of date because I received some

1607
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:05,000
 letters today, but we right now, I believe, have 12 letters in opposition, and that comes

1608
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:10,760
 to 12.44% in opposition.

1609
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:16,840
 Just know that doesn't reach that threshold of 20%, but it is a little different than

1610
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:18,360
 what you see on your screen.

1611
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:21,520
 The applicant also had two neighborhood meetings.

1612
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:23,640
 I was able to attend one.

1613
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:27,960
 There were concerns about things like traffic, visual impacts, and the applicant is here

1614
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:32,500
 to be able to speak more about that.

1615
01:51:32,500 --> 01:51:38,080
 So based upon the criteria for approval, staff recommends approval of the request, and I'll

1616
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:40,280
 be happy to answer any questions.

1617
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:49,360
 It is scheduled for our city council next week, and as I said, the applicant is here.

1618
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:50,360
 Thank you, Julie.

1619
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:51,360
 Commissioner Perot.

1620
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:52,360
 Yeah, thank you, Chair.

1621
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:56,560
 Just one, just to make sure I'm doing the math right, and if you want to defer to the

1622
01:51:56,560 --> 01:51:59,400
 applicant, that's fine as well.

1623
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:06,120
 I believe in our code, the R6-based district allows things like duplexes and fourplexes.

1624
01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:07,720
 Is that correct?

1625
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:08,720
 It does.

1626
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:10,900
 It has more residential uses within it.

1627
01:52:10,900 --> 01:52:16,980
 And so I'm just trying to, it sounds like a lot of homes in a smaller area, but I'm

1628
01:52:16,980 --> 01:52:21,680
 trying to think through, well, maybe there are some areas in town where there may be

1629
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:25,080
 a street or two of duplexes, for instance.

1630
01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:31,880
 And so if that were true, I would think that the lots would be twice as big, right?

1631
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:35,360
 Because it would have a two-family home on it.

1632
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:42,640
 And then we would be looking at, instead of 120 lots over 10 acres, it would be like 60

1633
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:44,400
 lots over 10 acres.

1634
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:48,780
 And the equivalent lot size, as I was looking at, and I know I'm probably not accounting

1635
01:52:48,780 --> 01:52:52,720
 for streets and everything, but it looks like somewhere between 5,000 and 6,000 square feet

1636
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:54,120
 would be the effective area.

1637
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:58,120
 Does that sound roughly within the ballpark?

1638
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:04,680
 I tried to do that math as well, and you got a lot further than I did, so I can sit down

1639
01:53:04,680 --> 01:53:07,000
 and try to work it out for you.

1640
01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,960
 If other commissioners want a specific answer, that would be great.

1641
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:11,400
 I don't need one.

1642
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:17,600
 I'm just trying to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly, in that you could think

1643
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:25,640
 of it as an R6 duplex development, except that we're allowing individual families to

1644
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:27,600
 own their own home.

1645
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:31,980
 Is that an accurate statement?

1646
01:53:31,980 --> 01:53:32,980
 Just between, yeah.

1647
01:53:32,980 --> 01:53:33,980
 Yes.

1648
01:53:33,980 --> 01:53:36,840
 I think that's accurate.

1649
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:42,360
 I'll just say you can own a town home as well.

1650
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:46,680
 Any other questions for Julie?

1651
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:47,680
 Thank you.

1652
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:48,680
 Thank you.

1653
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:49,680
 But we may.

1654
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:50,680
 So stay close.

1655
01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:52,800
 I do not have a card from the applicant.

1656
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:55,620
 Is the applicant wishing to speak, Julie?

1657
01:53:55,620 --> 01:53:57,340
 She has a presentation and then I'll put it up right now.

1658
01:53:57,340 --> 01:54:04,400
 In that case, then I will allow that to happen.

1659
01:54:04,400 --> 01:54:10,800
 Here we go.

1660
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:19,840
 Hi there.

1661
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:23,120
 If you'll give us your name, you can begin your presentation.

1662
01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:24,820
 Good evening, commissioners.

1663
01:54:24,820 --> 01:54:28,300
 My name is Rob Dakey and I'm here with my colleague, Alexa Knight, who will also be

1664
01:54:28,300 --> 01:54:31,080
 participating in the presentation this evening.

1665
01:54:31,080 --> 01:54:34,400
 I am a land use attorney and civil engineer in Texas.

1666
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:47,080
 We work around the state and have been asked to help with this project by our client, OAM

1667
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:51,200
 Denton.

1668
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:52,520
 So I won't spend much time on this.

1669
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:55,120
 I think everyone's familiar with where we're at in space.

1670
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:59,640
 The one thing I do like about this slide is it shows the mixed orientation of the single

1671
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:02,600
 family lots that surround the periphery of this project.

1672
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:12,840
 You'll see a mix of side lots as well as rear yards primarily on the east side of the project.

1673
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:15,640
 But single family is not the only use of budding this property.

1674
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:22,920
 We also have a little under half of the western boundary is adjacent to multifamily.

1675
01:55:22,920 --> 01:55:27,840
 One of the things that we feel like is really a pro for this project is it's a very rational

1676
01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:33,520
 step down in land use intensity, moving from the multifamily, which is present on the west,

1677
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:38,740
 to a more dense single family detached product and then into the traditional detached existing

1678
01:55:38,740 --> 01:55:43,040
 subdivision to the east.

1679
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:45,920
 As was mentioned, this is currently zoned R3.

1680
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:49,880
 We're asking to go to PDR 6.

1681
01:55:49,880 --> 01:55:53,440
 And one other point I'll make on this slide is the thing that jumps out when you look

1682
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:55,280
 at this is the width of the tract.

1683
01:55:55,280 --> 01:56:00,960
 There's 245 feet, very little to work with, and we'll talk a little more on how a significant

1684
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:07,240
 portion of that's not even usable, which is really what drives an awful lot of this conversation.

1685
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:08,880
 So we have a constrained site.

1686
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:11,240
 It's difficult.

1687
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:13,160
 Someone approaches us and says, "What should we do here?"

1688
01:56:13,160 --> 01:56:15,800
 The first thing we do is look at the comp plan.

1689
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:20,240
 And as Ms. Wya mentioned, there appears to be a policy preference expressed in the comp

1690
01:56:20,240 --> 01:56:24,840
 plan for a certain amount of density, particularly in infill situations.

1691
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:28,160
 I think all of us would agree it doesn't make sense to go in and push density everywhere

1692
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:32,000
 throughout the city, but there are situations where taking a context-sensitive approach

1693
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:34,120
 that may be the right decision.

1694
01:56:34,120 --> 01:56:38,440
 Our contention is that this is one of those.

1695
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:41,900
 I think that paragraph on the lower right is really, really powerful, and I almost never

1696
01:56:41,900 --> 01:56:47,120
 read from a slide, but I want to read this because I think it's so on point for our situation.

1697
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:51,080
 The city should take every opportunity to ensure that gaps in the neighborhood fabric

1698
01:56:51,080 --> 01:56:55,600
 occur in infill development, as the development of vacant or deteriorated properties will

1699
01:56:55,600 --> 01:57:00,320
 be encouraged, complementing the scale and character of each neighborhood.

1700
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:04,280
 Infill development creates opportunities for more compact forms of development and affordable

1701
01:57:04,280 --> 01:57:09,480
 housing options, types of residential product that could be suitable infill, include single

1702
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:13,400
 family neighborhoods as well as well-designed townhomes, quad apartments, duplexes, and

1703
01:57:13,400 --> 01:57:15,680
 other types.

1704
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:20,240
 I think in many respects, what we're proposing is similar to a townhome, but it does provide

1705
01:57:20,240 --> 01:57:21,240
 that detachment.

1706
01:57:21,240 --> 01:57:26,000
 We're finding more and more that there's a market, certainly there's a townhome market.

1707
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:29,400
 This is a little different in that it gives that little extra privacy that you don't have

1708
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:38,400
 with a shared wall.

1709
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:42,280
 My suspicion, I don't know this, but my suspicion is that this three-legged stool that's on

1710
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:47,320
 this slide really serves as the policy basis for the preference for some level of density

1711
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:49,800
 in an infill context.

1712
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:53,800
 While some of that is always driven by geometry, and we certainly have that issue here, we

1713
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:57,120
 also have the three legs of the fiscal stool.

1714
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:01,160
 We want stable services, we want low density, we want low taxes.

1715
01:58:01,160 --> 01:58:05,640
 The reality is you get to pick two of those, it's just not a way to pick all three of those.

1716
01:58:05,640 --> 01:58:12,040
 Our contention is that applied responsibly, done with high design standards, this is the

1717
01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:19,680
 right use for this property for all of these reasons.

1718
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:24,100
 Existing conditions, I mentioned we have 245 feet to work with.

1719
01:58:24,100 --> 01:58:28,700
 Along the eastern border running north-south, we have a concrete drainage channel, as well

1720
01:58:28,700 --> 01:58:32,040
 as high tension DME power lines for safety reasons.

1721
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:35,860
 There's all kinds of controls and restrictions that go around those lines, which further

1722
01:58:35,860 --> 01:58:40,880
 constrains the developability of the site, and it really crams us into a tough situation.

1723
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:46,600
 Also, back to the policy question just for one second, you'll note there's been some

1724
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:49,280
 vandalism in that home in the upper right.

1725
01:58:49,280 --> 01:58:53,720
 I think it's an unfortunate sign of the times, but when we have these kinds of undeveloped

1726
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:58,400
 parcels with development activity all around them, you have a lot of activity, but you

1727
01:58:58,400 --> 01:59:01,720
 have illicit activity that may take place on that open land.

1728
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:07,520
 Again, going back to the genesis of some of those policy concerns in the comp plan, I

1729
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:11,400
 think this is certainly a contributor is trying to impede these types of things from happening.

1730
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:18,440
 With that, I'm going to turn this over to my colleague, Alexa Knight.

1731
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:45,000
 Much shorter, Alexa Knight with Day Key Law, 322 West Walnut, Salina, Texas.

1732
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:48,040
 What we have in front of us is an aerial view.

1733
01:59:48,040 --> 01:59:53,800
 Bird's eye view of the tract and the proposed development that's shown there in the center

1734
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:56,120
 in the green.

1735
01:59:56,120 --> 02:00:02,960
 As Rob discussed, we have the multifamily, the fountains of Denton to the west of the

1736
02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:03,960
 tract.

1737
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:07,480
 We have the substation at our front door to the south of the tract.

1738
02:00:07,480 --> 02:00:15,040
 That boarded up home is immediately to the right front of the entry.

1739
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,920
 The R7 zoning is that vacant land that's right there, and then there's the single family

1740
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:22,240
 on the north, west, and east side of the tract.

1741
02:00:22,240 --> 02:00:26,080
 We have been in the planning process and have not taken this lightly by any means over the

1742
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:27,080
 past seven months.

1743
02:00:27,080 --> 02:00:29,880
 We've been into the city for the past five months.

1744
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:34,200
 We've had two neighborhood meetings, as Ms. Wyatt has mentioned.

1745
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:38,840
 In the very first one, I mentioned to the neighbors who attended, I said, "It's really

1746
02:00:38,840 --> 02:00:42,720
 great that you were members and residents of the city of Denton, because it's great

1747
02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:48,800
 for you, maybe not as much fun for the developer," because the city of Denton really does scrutinize

1748
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:54,240
 or have the applicant scrutinize their plan when you come through with a PD.

1749
02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:58,880
 It's not just a straight zoning, it's a PD that has a concept plan.

1750
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:06,280
 Our team has put together a TIA, the drainage analysis, and then also the tree protection

1751
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:11,560
 plan, all of which the comments have been approved and all associated with this PD.

1752
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:17,560
 As a result, when we originally came into the city, we did have a town home product

1753
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:18,760
 on this also.

1754
02:01:18,760 --> 02:01:20,720
 We had a much more broader land use.

1755
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:24,440
 Since we had the neighborhood meetings, since we've worked with staff, we've paired that

1756
02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:29,200
 back, so it's just a single family detached home product.

1757
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:34,040
 We felt with the density and the drainage situation that this was more amenable, so

1758
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:40,000
 we have 119 zero lot line units, not town home units, but this was a slide from our

1759
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:42,720
 presentation to the neighbors.

1760
02:01:42,720 --> 02:01:46,680
 We've limited the building height to a maximum of two stories within that 40-foot height,

1761
02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:50,080
 which is the same for R3 or R6 zoning.

1762
02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:53,660
 The majority of the lots are 2,000 square feet.

1763
02:01:53,660 --> 02:02:00,720
 We do have some, about 37% of the lots are anywhere from 1850 to 2,000 square feet.

1764
02:02:00,720 --> 02:02:04,880
 That is because while this site looks perfectly rectangular, it's not.

1765
02:02:04,880 --> 02:02:09,160
 It's kind of like this, where there's a pinch point on the south side.

1766
02:02:09,160 --> 02:02:12,400
 If you're going to have more dense product, that's the place to have it, because that's

1767
02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:19,440
 where you have the other zoning categories with the multifamily and R7 zoning.

1768
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:24,760
 As we talked about also, this just provides the city to provide their community another

1769
02:02:24,760 --> 02:02:26,280
 type of development.

1770
02:02:26,280 --> 02:02:28,240
 Not everybody wants to live in multifamily.

1771
02:02:28,240 --> 02:02:31,400
 Not everybody wants to have a large lot where I have to come home and I've got to mow on

1772
02:02:31,400 --> 02:02:34,920
 the weekends, but yet you want to own your own home.

1773
02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:43,000
 It does provide something that perhaps the city doesn't quite offer at this point.

1774
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:45,520
 Sometimes this is important to the neighbors that we have this, that the waste management

1775
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:49,540
 services will be a curbside for the development.

1776
02:02:49,540 --> 02:02:53,280
 This is a slide of rendering of what the front entry would look like.

1777
02:02:53,280 --> 02:02:55,280
 We have well-manned landscaped.

1778
02:02:55,280 --> 02:02:58,080
 Again, this is a benefit of doing a PD.

1779
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:03,900
 All of these things are already vetted as far as what it's going to look like.

1780
02:03:03,900 --> 02:03:10,380
 This is the land plan that's in your packet, actually, that goes along with the PD.

1781
02:03:10,380 --> 02:03:16,240
 One of the things that we, when we met with the neighbors, there was a lot of discussion

1782
02:03:16,240 --> 02:03:18,800
 about traffic and connection.

1783
02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:24,360
 As you all well know, that when we put together a land plan, we just don't slap a bunch of

1784
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:25,540
 buildings down on the land.

1785
02:03:25,540 --> 02:03:27,720
 We look at the comp plan first.

1786
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:31,080
 We look at all the restrictions associated with the tract.

1787
02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:34,640
 We've gone through those, which is the drainage easement on the east.

1788
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:40,800
 That purple line represents the DME restriction on that major overhead power line that goes

1789
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:41,800
 through there.

1790
02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:46,240
 We have two existing streets from the neighborhood that stub up to the eastern property line

1791
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:48,240
 that we must connect to.

1792
02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:51,100
 We have to have right-of-way that comes through the tract.

1793
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:54,600
 Then on the west side, we also have another power line.

1794
02:03:54,600 --> 02:03:58,320
 While it's not on our property, it affects the development of our property.

1795
02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:03,740
 Initially, when we made application and we met with DME, we asked for a variance to be

1796
02:04:03,740 --> 02:04:07,640
 able to encroach into those easements, and we were denied that.

1797
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:13,600
 That's why the variances to staff on a more narrow street came through.

1798
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:21,280
 We do provide in this plan 27.5% open space, single family detached does not have any open

1799
02:04:21,280 --> 02:04:22,280
 space requirement.

1800
02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:28,760
 We do have the additional about 45 spaces of parking, because we've also added parking

1801
02:04:28,760 --> 02:04:34,000
 on the west side of the street in addition to the 20 lots that Julie mentioned.

1802
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:40,320
 We're continuing the connectivity north and south with that 10-foot trail, and then also

1803
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:46,240
 along the east McKinney Street on the shared path.

1804
02:04:46,240 --> 02:04:50,680
 This is just a rendering of a cross-section through the tract.

1805
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:54,440
 This is the least constrained portion, which is along the northern side.

1806
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:59,400
 When we met with the neighbors, we showed three different cross-sections.

1807
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:01,400
 It was full disclosure.

1808
02:05:01,400 --> 02:05:05,120
 We talked about the least constrained to the north through the cross-section where the

1809
02:05:05,120 --> 02:05:09,760
 traffic circle is, and then also the most constrained section.

1810
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:13,440
 One of the important things that we felt for the community and to make it a walkable community

1811
02:05:13,440 --> 02:05:20,080
 is we kept the landscape islands there six-foot wide so we could have those street trees,

1812
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:28,280
 maintaining a five-foot sidewalk, and then also a 20-foot front yard setback.

1813
02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:33,480
 We've also heard the opposition from some of the neighbors about the potential for overcrowding

1814
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:34,980
 the schools.

1815
02:05:34,980 --> 02:05:40,200
 One of the great opportunities here is limit urban sprawl.

1816
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:43,420
 You have this infill tract.

1817
02:05:43,420 --> 02:05:49,200
 If we have a single family zero lot line development, how great would it be to be able to walk your

1818
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:51,920
 kids to school right around the corner?

1819
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:57,840
 We looked at the Alexander Elementary School, and they're actually operating at 78 percent

1820
02:05:57,840 --> 02:05:58,840
 capacity.

1821
02:05:58,840 --> 02:06:02,960
 There is capacity there for the school.

1822
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:04,880
 This is a slide for the TIA.

1823
02:06:04,880 --> 02:06:08,600
 If anybody has specific questions, we have our civil engineer here, and we also have

1824
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:12,080
 our traffic engineer to answer any specific questions.

1825
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:14,560
 As I mentioned earlier, we did do a TIA.

1826
02:06:14,560 --> 02:06:19,320
 We barely tipped the requirement actually to do a TIA, but one was done.

1827
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:27,560
 All the levels of service are to par with the city, and the developer will be constructing

1828
02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:30,120
 a left turn lane into the project.

1829
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:34,560
 There will be additional pavement that will be built in order to accommodate that.

1830
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:39,980
 Again, continuing the connectivity, we're dedicating that frontage along East McKinney

1831
02:06:39,980 --> 02:06:48,120
 to be able to accommodate the city's shared path connection, which will connect this track

1832
02:06:48,120 --> 02:06:49,120
 to downtown.

1833
02:06:49,120 --> 02:06:53,640
 Again, a mile and a half, that's perfect to bike, walk.

1834
02:06:53,640 --> 02:06:56,080
 It fits that urban infill.

1835
02:06:56,080 --> 02:07:00,080
 Then we're also providing the connectivity north and south, so if you need to get to

1836
02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:05,140
 the school, that's a great opportunity too.

1837
02:07:05,140 --> 02:07:09,160
 This is an elevation that was part of our packet, just saying that we've upgraded the

1838
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:15,040
 elevations with the development standards, again, a positive for doing a PD.

1839
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:16,040
 With that, we're here.

1840
02:07:16,040 --> 02:07:18,440
 The whole team is here for any questions.

1841
02:07:18,440 --> 02:07:19,440
 Thank you.

1842
02:07:19,440 --> 02:07:20,440
 Thank you.

1843
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:23,080
 Questions at the moment for the applicant?

1844
02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:24,080
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1845
02:07:24,080 --> 02:07:25,080
 Thank you, Chair.

1846
02:07:25,080 --> 02:07:30,680
 It's probably for you since you mentioned the history of your development timeline.

1847
02:07:30,680 --> 02:07:31,680
 Yes.

1848
02:07:31,680 --> 02:07:38,680
 I wonder if you could comment and let us know ... It's no secret that I'm nervous about

1849
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:42,560
 carving our city up into PDs when it's not necessary.

1850
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:45,880
 I feel like maybe this one is in order to achieve this product.

1851
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:46,880
 I'm sorry.

1852
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:56,280
 I have to translate between developer speak and people speak.

1853
02:07:56,280 --> 02:08:01,780
 Are there any residential zoning districts that we have in our town that would allow

1854
02:08:01,780 --> 02:08:07,400
 you to achieve the price point that you're aiming for for these, or would the minimum

1855
02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:15,500
 lot sizes and open space requirements make it impossible to do that, essentially?

1856
02:08:15,500 --> 02:08:16,500
 That's a good question.

1857
02:08:16,500 --> 02:08:19,800
 That was the very first time we sat down, we looked at the code, we looked at all the

1858
02:08:19,800 --> 02:08:25,320
 different zoning sections, and when we had a pre-application meeting, it didn't fit in

1859
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:27,000
 a specific box.

1860
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:31,840
 But I think, again, it's probably a benefit to the neighbors because we had to do the

1861
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:32,840
 PD.

1862
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:38,120
 There was so much work that the developer ended up having to pay us to do, and to vet.

1863
02:08:38,120 --> 02:08:43,520
 I feel like every stone has been turned with regard to the drainage and the trees, et cetera.

1864
02:08:43,520 --> 02:08:44,960
 It's actually a benefit, I think.

1865
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:45,960
 Okay.

1866
02:08:45,960 --> 02:08:46,960
 Thank you.

1867
02:08:46,960 --> 02:08:47,960
 Question.

1868
02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:52,320
 Staff didn't know the answer to this, but you may.

1869
02:08:52,320 --> 02:08:57,800
 Is the lot for sale, or is it under contract, or do you know?

1870
02:08:57,800 --> 02:09:00,720
 The lots will be sold individually.

1871
02:09:00,720 --> 02:09:01,720
 I mean, it's tracked.

1872
02:09:01,720 --> 02:09:02,720
 It is.

1873
02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:03,880
 It's currently owned.

1874
02:09:03,880 --> 02:09:06,480
 It's not under contract by somebody else.

1875
02:09:06,480 --> 02:09:07,480
 Okay.

1876
02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:08,800
 Because it does have a for sale sign on it.

1877
02:09:08,800 --> 02:09:12,040
 Is that a former for sale sign from a while back?

1878
02:09:12,040 --> 02:09:13,040
 Correct.

1879
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:14,040
 Yes.

1880
02:09:14,040 --> 02:09:15,040
 Yeah.

1881
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:16,040
 I know.

1882
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:17,040
 Okay.

1883
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:18,040
 Okay.

1884
02:09:18,040 --> 02:09:19,040
 Anybody else right now for the applicant?

1885
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:20,040
 No?

1886
02:09:20,040 --> 02:09:21,040
 Thank you.

1887
02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:22,040
 Thank you.

1888
02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:23,640
 Julie, question.

1889
02:09:23,640 --> 02:09:26,040
 Did you talk to Solid Waste?

1890
02:09:26,040 --> 02:09:28,840
 I know she mentioned that they have curbside.

1891
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:31,840
 I'm just wondering, have they looked at this?

1892
02:09:31,840 --> 02:09:32,840
 Yes.

1893
02:09:32,840 --> 02:09:33,840
 Solid Waste reviewed it.

1894
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:39,040
 What kind of truck are they bringing through there?

1895
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:46,240
 When you look at here, it would be our normal Solid Waste trucks.

1896
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:47,240
 Okay.

1897
02:09:47,240 --> 02:09:55,240
 With the restriction of the parking to one side, actually, the travel lanes would be

1898
02:09:55,240 --> 02:10:01,520
 a little wider than the 55 feet with parking on both sides.

1899
02:10:01,520 --> 02:10:06,800
 So it really, and that was something that we worked with with FHIR and our transportation

1900
02:10:06,800 --> 02:10:11,560
 folks is to make sure that there was sufficient space for emergency vehicles, Solid Waste,

1901
02:10:11,560 --> 02:10:12,560
 all of those.

1902
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:13,560
 So, yes.

1903
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:14,560
 Okay.

1904
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:15,560
 And I know we did the TIA.

1905
02:10:15,560 --> 02:10:23,800
 You know, there's a significant blind spot on Paisley with regard to, particularly, if

1906
02:10:23,800 --> 02:10:28,000
 you're coming on, I think it's Long Meadow onto Paisley.

1907
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:37,940
 This particular tract of land juts out forward in front of that, which obviously there's

1908
02:10:37,940 --> 02:10:46,320
 no cars coming there now because it's undeveloped, but obviously there will be.

1909
02:10:46,320 --> 02:10:51,160
 Did anyone discuss that, think about that?

1910
02:10:51,160 --> 02:10:54,240
 Paisley's not gonna have any mitigation, correct?

1911
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:55,240
 I'm sorry?

1912
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:57,400
 Paisley's not gonna have any mitigation, correct?

1913
02:10:57,400 --> 02:10:58,400
 Correct.

1914
02:10:58,400 --> 02:10:59,400
 Correct.

1915
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:00,400
 I'll call the applicant.

1916
02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:01,400
 Sure.

1917
02:11:01,400 --> 02:11:02,400
 Of course.

1918
02:11:02,400 --> 02:11:03,400
 Yeah.

1919
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:04,400
 Please.

1920
02:11:04,400 --> 02:11:08,200
 Now, Julie, how do I get back to my presentation?

1921
02:11:08,200 --> 02:11:11,800
 Does that help?

1922
02:11:11,800 --> 02:11:12,800
 Okay.

1923
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:22,560
 I'm gonna just click on one of these.

1924
02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:23,560
 Okay.

1925
02:11:23,560 --> 02:11:24,560
 So...

1926
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:25,560
 This one.

1927
02:11:25,560 --> 02:11:26,560
 There you go.

1928
02:11:26,560 --> 02:11:27,560
 Okay.

1929
02:11:27,560 --> 02:11:30,920
 So, we did look at the line, our engineers did look at the line of sight, and as you

1930
02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:38,440
 can see here on Paisley, the lots don't start until further back, and so there's tree preservation

1931
02:11:38,440 --> 02:11:39,440
 there.

1932
02:11:39,440 --> 02:11:40,440
 Oh, sure.

1933
02:11:40,440 --> 02:11:45,040
 So, between the tree preservation and the fact that there are no units there, that line

1934
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:48,160
 of sight is open.

1935
02:11:48,160 --> 02:11:50,040
 As open as it can be.

1936
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:51,040
 Right.

1937
02:11:51,040 --> 02:11:52,040
 Given the geometry.

1938
02:11:52,040 --> 02:11:53,040
 That's what I'm saying.

1939
02:11:53,040 --> 02:11:54,040
 The topography doesn't change.

1940
02:11:54,040 --> 02:11:55,040
 It still is...

1941
02:11:55,040 --> 02:11:56,040
 Yeah.

1942
02:11:56,040 --> 02:11:57,040
 Correct.

1943
02:11:57,040 --> 02:11:58,680
 I think the people in this development would be fine.

1944
02:11:58,680 --> 02:12:04,480
 It's the people that aren't gonna be able to see this because it's in front of them.

1945
02:12:04,480 --> 02:12:05,480
 Okay.

1946
02:12:05,480 --> 02:12:06,480
 Thank you.

1947
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:11,200
 Okay, Commissioner Pedrone, question for the applicant or...

1948
02:12:11,200 --> 02:12:12,200
 Either applicant or staff.

1949
02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:13,200
 Okay.

1950
02:12:13,200 --> 02:12:14,200
 Yeah, go ahead.

1951
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:15,200
 It's regarding the parking.

1952
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:20,320
 So, if I understand correctly, just so I can visualize it appropriately, parking is recommended

1953
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:25,200
 to be on one side of the street so travel can move freely on the other sides.

1954
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:26,200
 Is that correct?

1955
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:27,200
 Correct.

1956
02:12:27,200 --> 02:12:32,900
 In the event that, you know, that's not respected and parking occurs on both sides, what happens?

1957
02:12:32,900 --> 02:12:40,720
 For, let's say, service vehicles, so emergency services or our city services.

1958
02:12:40,720 --> 02:12:45,520
 I would assume, and Hillary or Tina may want to jump in, but that would be an enforcement

1959
02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:48,160
 issue with the police.

1960
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:50,840
 Not necessarily with enforcement, but accessibility.

1961
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:56,440
 So, let's say that parking is on one side of the street and let's say that's not necessarily

1962
02:12:56,440 --> 02:13:00,400
 respected by all the residents and parking occurs on the other side of the street.

1963
02:13:00,400 --> 02:13:08,840
 Does that then limit accessibility to emergency services or city services because of the narrowness?

1964
02:13:08,840 --> 02:13:13,480
 So, in my opinion, no, and the reason being is because the street pavement under this

1965
02:13:13,480 --> 02:13:16,920
 PD is 33 feet in width, or 30...

1966
02:13:16,920 --> 02:13:17,920
 29 feet.

1967
02:13:17,920 --> 02:13:18,920
 29 feet.

1968
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:19,920
 Okay.

1969
02:13:19,920 --> 02:13:20,920
 So, hold on.

1970
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:22,920
 Let me redo my math.

1971
02:13:22,920 --> 02:13:23,920
 Right.

1972
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:29,160
 So, you're still able to maintain at least one travel lane through there if there was

1973
02:13:29,160 --> 02:13:30,520
 two cars parked on either side.

1974
02:13:30,520 --> 02:13:36,280
 So, I assume 29 foot wide pavement width with eight feet being allocated on either side

1975
02:13:36,280 --> 02:13:37,280
 for parking.

1976
02:13:37,280 --> 02:13:38,280
 So, that's 16.

1977
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:40,600
 So, I came up with 29 minus 16 is 13 feet.

1978
02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:44,880
 So, 13 feet is actually wider than a typical travel lane on a street.

1979
02:13:44,880 --> 02:13:49,720
 So, like in some of our other residential neighborhoods, it's comparable to a fire truck

1980
02:13:49,720 --> 02:13:53,920
 or other solid ways having to maneuver through those neighborhoods.

1981
02:13:53,920 --> 02:13:55,560
 Thanks.

1982
02:13:55,560 --> 02:14:01,360
 Okay, Commissioner Thaggert for the applicant or...

1983
02:14:01,360 --> 02:14:02,360
 Okay.

1984
02:14:02,360 --> 02:14:04,360
 Thank you, Chair.

1985
02:14:04,360 --> 02:14:08,680
 You'd mentioned talking to Alexander Elementary School and saying that they were...

1986
02:14:08,680 --> 02:14:12,520
 At what capacity, again, did they report?

1987
02:14:12,520 --> 02:14:15,520
 I didn't speak with them.

1988
02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:23,440
 I just was online with regard to their 23, 24 data, and they said in there it stated

1989
02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:25,840
 that it was 78%.

1990
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:26,840
 Okay.

1991
02:14:26,840 --> 02:14:33,480
 I wonder, based on the data that you found, if they considered the substantial budget

1992
02:14:33,480 --> 02:14:38,440
 cuts that have come as a result of ESSER dissolving and them having to pull a lot of professionals

1993
02:14:38,440 --> 02:14:44,200
 out of there, particularly with a lot of the students that are high needs in that area.

1994
02:14:44,200 --> 02:14:49,840
 So, I'm just wondering if 78%, like what that may have been based on, I'd have to look at

1995
02:14:49,840 --> 02:14:55,920
 that data, but I was just wondering because I'm always asking about, as a former principal

1996
02:14:55,920 --> 02:15:01,320
 and teacher, I'm always asking about the schools and what the impact of having that many more

1997
02:15:01,320 --> 02:15:05,480
 children going to that elementary school could look like for those teachers and for that

1998
02:15:05,480 --> 02:15:06,480
 staff.

1999
02:15:06,480 --> 02:15:11,480
 Thank you for answering that.

2000
02:15:11,480 --> 02:15:13,880
 Commissioner Pedro, you have another question?

2001
02:15:13,880 --> 02:15:14,880
 Oh, yeah.

2002
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:15,880
 Go ahead.

2003
02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:20,320
 Just kind of to add to Commissioner Thaggard's question, there was a comment made about the

2004
02:15:20,320 --> 02:15:27,040
 likelihood of increasing pedestrian traffic to the schools and, I guess, mitigating some

2005
02:15:27,040 --> 02:15:30,040
 of the traffic concerns that the development could bring.

2006
02:15:30,040 --> 02:15:34,100
 Is there any data or have there been studies that have been conducted that says on average

2007
02:15:34,100 --> 02:15:40,640
 how much pedestrian traffic schools or residences in a certain proximity to the schools would

2008
02:15:40,640 --> 02:15:41,640
 generate?

2009
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:47,960
 So, is it something that we're hoping for or is there data that would support a residential

2010
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:50,640
 neighborhood this close to the school?

2011
02:15:50,640 --> 02:15:55,520
 There's a likelihood of X amount of percentage of people walking.

2012
02:15:55,520 --> 02:15:57,400
 I'm not aware of any studies.

2013
02:15:57,400 --> 02:16:03,280
 What we do, I try to do with the development and with the review process just to make sure

2014
02:16:03,280 --> 02:16:08,380
 that there's a safe walking route to schools, and so that's really kind of what we were

2015
02:16:08,380 --> 02:16:10,620
 looking at in terms of this project.

2016
02:16:10,620 --> 02:16:16,200
 As far as then what does that translate to, I'm not aware of any.

2017
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:21,160
 I was going to say I'm not aware of any studies either.

2018
02:16:21,160 --> 02:16:25,400
 To Julie's point, with any single family residential subdivision, we try to ensure that we've had

2019
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:31,000
 adequate sidewalks that are provided throughout so that if families do want the option to

2020
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:35,040
 be able to walk to nearby schools, that they're provided a safe opportunity to be able to

2021
02:16:35,040 --> 02:16:37,720
 do so.

2022
02:16:37,720 --> 02:16:45,560
 Seeing no one else wishing to ask questions at the moment, we'll move on with the public

2023
02:16:45,560 --> 02:16:46,560
 hearing.

2024
02:16:46,560 --> 02:17:13,120
 I'm going to start in front of me by George Terry.

2025
02:17:13,120 --> 02:17:14,280
 Hello if you'll state your name.

2026
02:17:14,280 --> 02:17:15,280
 Your time will begin.

2027
02:17:15,280 --> 02:17:16,840
 My name is George Terry.

2028
02:17:16,840 --> 02:17:19,720
 I live at 2308 Eagle Nest.

2029
02:17:19,720 --> 02:17:25,880
 On that map you see a white line with a circle at the end of it in the middle of that property.

2030
02:17:25,880 --> 02:17:30,360
 That's me right next to the property line.

2031
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:32,800
 I have several questions.

2032
02:17:32,800 --> 02:17:39,200
 One is first and foremost as we talked about a neighborhood hearing, now I'm not saying

2033
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:45,240
 it didn't take place, but I live right next door to it and I was never notified of it.

2034
02:17:45,240 --> 02:17:48,000
 First I've heard of it is when they mentioned it right here.

2035
02:17:48,000 --> 02:17:50,420
 I'm not saying it did not happen.

2036
02:17:50,420 --> 02:17:55,520
 I'm saying I wasn't notified and that bothers me.

2037
02:17:55,520 --> 02:18:01,000
 Second thing is, and this is my big one, I've got several, but I've got a big one.

2038
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:10,200
 We had power lines there, the high power transmission lines, which they moved a couple hundred yards

2039
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:17,840
 east, and they cut telephone poles down and it's just a local telephone line service.

2040
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:22,060
 Now when we moved in we had no problem with the setback.

2041
02:18:22,060 --> 02:18:24,200
 We couldn't build anything within 40 feet.

2042
02:18:24,200 --> 02:18:31,260
 Well I called today and they said 42.6 inches, but still 40 feet.

2043
02:18:31,260 --> 02:18:36,720
 How far back are these houses going to be from the property line?

2044
02:18:36,720 --> 02:18:42,160
 Now if we're 40 feet on one side and they only, I've been told 10 and I've been told

2045
02:18:42,160 --> 02:18:43,160
 13.

2046
02:18:43,160 --> 02:18:50,400
 Either way, let's go with 15, why are they getting 25 more feet use of their property

2047
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:51,400
 than we are?

2048
02:18:51,400 --> 02:18:54,080
 It's the same power line.

2049
02:18:54,080 --> 02:19:00,440
 Now I've been up P&Z several times since they've cut it down and because when we moved in we

2050
02:19:00,440 --> 02:19:01,440
 knew it was there.

2051
02:19:01,440 --> 02:19:02,440
 It was no problem.

2052
02:19:02,440 --> 02:19:04,100
 We moved in knowing that.

2053
02:19:04,100 --> 02:19:12,840
 But when they cut it down, I went up there several times to ask for a quick claim.

2054
02:19:12,840 --> 02:19:19,320
 And P&Z staff, including again today, told me all I would be doing is wasting my time,

2055
02:19:19,320 --> 02:19:24,680
 money, and effort because once the city gets the setback they don't give it up.

2056
02:19:24,680 --> 02:19:28,440
 I was told that again today.

2057
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:32,840
 I don't like the idea that you're preferring these people over us.

2058
02:19:32,840 --> 02:19:36,520
 We've been there for, in my case, 40 years.

2059
02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:41,240
 Now I've had to build everything and I live in the end of cul-de-sac, that's my fault,

2060
02:19:41,240 --> 02:19:46,880
 but the 40 foot takes away a tremendous amount of my property.

2061
02:19:46,880 --> 02:19:54,040
 So when I build a shed or whatever, if you notice everything is 40 feet away.

2062
02:19:54,040 --> 02:19:56,880
 If you go out there and you look right down the line and see all the houses, everything

2063
02:19:56,880 --> 02:20:01,280
 is 40 feet away and they're on a straight line because everybody got as close as they

2064
02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:06,040
 could to that 40 foot and built that way.

2065
02:20:06,040 --> 02:20:08,400
 Don't like that.

2066
02:20:08,400 --> 02:20:13,760
 Next thing is, the street, I know what you're saying, the street's too narrow.

2067
02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:17,940
 You get, and they will park on both sides, are you kidding me?

2068
02:20:17,940 --> 02:20:23,920
 I was a mailman, retired being a mailman, retired other thing.

2069
02:20:23,920 --> 02:20:30,960
 Rarely in a less than, I don't want to say a poor neighborhood.

2070
02:20:30,960 --> 02:20:38,360
 I don't mean it that way, but they will park on both sides.

2071
02:20:38,360 --> 02:20:41,040
 We never had one that didn't do that.

2072
02:20:41,040 --> 02:20:48,840
 Now in the high rent areas where you got 200 foot lots, we didn't have that problem, but

2073
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:54,760
 in this small stuff, they park on both sides of the street and you're not going to tell

2074
02:20:54,760 --> 02:21:00,120
 me that they're going to be able to get a trash truck or whatever through there because

2075
02:21:00,120 --> 02:21:03,840
 people don't park right next to the curb.

2076
02:21:03,840 --> 02:21:06,120
 Quite often they'll come out a foot or two.

2077
02:21:06,120 --> 02:21:07,720
 That takes up that much more space.

2078
02:21:07,720 --> 02:21:10,080
 I just don't see that being feasible.

2079
02:21:10,080 --> 02:21:12,280
 Next thing is density.

2080
02:21:12,280 --> 02:21:18,740
 If you look, I believe all the traditional houses there have like three and a half or

2081
02:21:18,740 --> 02:21:26,520
 something, I saw it up there a minute ago, whereas they're asking for what on this density

2082
02:21:26,520 --> 02:21:27,520
 per?

2083
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:28,520
 What's the density that they're asking?

2084
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:31,560
 The correct density per acre I think is about 10.

2085
02:21:31,560 --> 02:21:32,560
 10.

2086
02:21:32,560 --> 02:21:33,560
 Okay.

2087
02:21:33,560 --> 02:21:34,560
 Totally different than what we're there.

2088
02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:36,800
 Now you talk about the apartment and that's true.

2089
02:21:36,800 --> 02:21:39,480
 That's the front part of their property.

2090
02:21:39,480 --> 02:21:44,920
 They got it open on the other side where it hasn't been developed, but for the back half,

2091
02:21:44,920 --> 02:21:53,400
 more than half in fact, you've got families been there for a long time and when the apartments

2092
02:21:53,400 --> 02:21:59,360
 went in, we agreed to it because they agreed to do two things, one they stayed 40 foot

2093
02:21:59,360 --> 02:22:01,400
 back from the fence line.

2094
02:22:01,400 --> 02:22:03,920
 That was agreement made to put those apartments in.

2095
02:22:03,920 --> 02:22:10,200
 Second thing they did is they made sure that there was no windows facing the houses upstairs.

2096
02:22:10,200 --> 02:22:13,880
 I'm going to ask you to finish up, just because your time is in it, I'm going to ask you to

2097
02:22:13,880 --> 02:22:14,880
 wrap up.

2098
02:22:14,880 --> 02:22:15,880
 Your point, go ahead.

2099
02:22:15,880 --> 02:22:21,300
 Well, I saw a picture there that there are going to be windows on the back.

2100
02:22:21,300 --> 02:22:25,560
 The apartments didn't do that and they agreed to be 40 feet away.

2101
02:22:25,560 --> 02:22:33,420
 By the way, the walk into school is a disaster now.

2102
02:22:33,420 --> 02:22:38,120
 Our fences are constantly being knocked down because the kids don't want to walk all the

2103
02:22:38,120 --> 02:22:39,120
 way around.

2104
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:44,600
 You'd literally knock the fence down, make holes in it and go through as a shortcut going

2105
02:22:44,600 --> 02:22:45,600
 to school.

2106
02:22:45,600 --> 02:22:53,360
 Do you really think adding 130, 116 families is going to cut down on that?

2107
02:22:53,360 --> 02:22:59,460
 They're not going to walk all the way around, would you?

2108
02:22:59,460 --> 02:23:00,460
 Thank you.

2109
02:23:00,460 --> 02:23:01,460
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

2110
02:23:01,460 --> 02:23:10,520
 I will ask, I guess the applicant this question, how was the neighborhood meeting advertised?

2111
02:23:10,520 --> 02:23:17,000
 We were given all the names and addresses for the 200 and 500 foot notification and

2112
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:20,800
 the mailing was sent out, mailed it.

2113
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:25,520
 He should have gotten one, he's definitely, he's right there in the middle.

2114
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:26,800
 Thank you.

2115
02:23:26,800 --> 02:23:31,960
 I don't have any other cards in front of me wishing to speak, but this is a public hearing,

2116
02:23:31,960 --> 02:23:36,200
 so please feel free to do so and you can fill one out later.

2117
02:23:36,200 --> 02:23:40,080
 Mr. Lee, you know the drill.

2118
02:23:40,080 --> 02:23:41,080
 Yes.

2119
02:23:41,080 --> 02:23:42,080
 My name is Charles Lee.

2120
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:43,600
 I'm going to just keep it short.

2121
02:23:43,600 --> 02:23:50,520
 I mean, it's a tough sell because of the geometry and I just feel like you guys are just trying

2122
02:23:50,520 --> 02:23:53,320
 to put a square peg in a round hole.

2123
02:23:53,320 --> 02:23:59,160
 Maybe just like not all land just can be developed because it is, you're trying to pack a lot

2124
02:23:59,160 --> 02:24:05,320
 of people in and a long narrow piece of property and I get the developer's point of view, if

2125
02:24:05,320 --> 02:24:12,160
 you cut down on density, it just might not be profitable just to build anything there.

2126
02:24:12,160 --> 02:24:17,780
 So maybe it's just not meant to be to be developed and maybe it's just better just put a nice

2127
02:24:17,780 --> 02:24:19,840
 park in there with some trees.

2128
02:24:19,840 --> 02:24:25,920
 The city does have eminent domain powers and you could just take it over and just build

2129
02:24:25,920 --> 02:24:30,640
 a nice park out of it, put some trees in there, a walking park and that's pretty much all

2130
02:24:30,640 --> 02:24:32,080
 I have to say.

2131
02:24:32,080 --> 02:24:34,280
 Thank you, Mr. Lee.

2132
02:24:34,280 --> 02:24:35,920
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

2133
02:24:35,920 --> 02:24:36,920
 Yep.

2134
02:24:36,920 --> 02:24:37,920
 Yep.

2135
02:24:37,920 --> 02:24:38,920
 Come on down.

2136
02:24:38,920 --> 02:24:42,000
 Just state your name and your time will begin and you can fill out a card afterward.

2137
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:43,000
 Hi.

2138
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:44,000
 Hi.

2139
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:45,000
 My name's Patricia Wood.

2140
02:24:45,000 --> 02:24:46,000
 I live on Paisley Street just down.

2141
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:48,400
 I actually have your card now wishing to speak but please go right ahead.

2142
02:24:48,400 --> 02:24:49,400
 Okay.

2143
02:24:49,400 --> 02:24:50,400
 Thank you.

2144
02:24:50,400 --> 02:24:54,280
 I agree with both the first, especially the speaker that spoke first.

2145
02:24:54,280 --> 02:24:56,040
 That's going to be a huge problem.

2146
02:24:56,040 --> 02:25:00,080
 He's very much correct on how people park.

2147
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:05,640
 I just want to add to what he said, there's a lot of working people in our neighborhoods.

2148
02:25:05,640 --> 02:25:11,120
 There's a lot of construction equipment, a lot of trailers, things like that and that

2149
02:25:11,120 --> 02:25:13,800
 takes a lot of room on the streets.

2150
02:25:13,800 --> 02:25:15,920
 I'm very concerned about that.

2151
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:22,580
 I'm just right on the edge of that 200 yard whatever so I had no idea on the public meetings

2152
02:25:22,580 --> 02:25:23,580
 or anything.

2153
02:25:23,580 --> 02:25:29,800
 I think they need to include a lot more neighbors because it impacts us down the street as well.

2154
02:25:29,800 --> 02:25:34,200
 The school is horrendous as far as traffic.

2155
02:25:34,200 --> 02:25:37,800
 I got off work early yesterday at three o'clock right when school let out.

2156
02:25:37,800 --> 02:25:41,440
 I sat there for 15 minutes and couldn't get through on Paisley.

2157
02:25:41,440 --> 02:25:46,680
 So we're adding another 116 houses with how many kids now?

2158
02:25:46,680 --> 02:25:49,360
 I don't even think they're going to be able to get in their neighborhood to get home.

2159
02:25:49,360 --> 02:25:52,660
 They are around that time of day.

2160
02:25:52,660 --> 02:25:56,080
 Another thing I hear is restriction on space.

2161
02:25:56,080 --> 02:26:03,320
 I've heard it multiple times from all these people, no room for trees, no room for, you

2162
02:26:03,320 --> 02:26:09,080
 got concerns about garbage people picking up, the mail people, emergency equipment.

2163
02:26:09,080 --> 02:26:12,640
 Your numbers match but I don't see that happening.

2164
02:26:12,640 --> 02:26:19,040
 I would suggest, I love the idea of these single family smaller homes.

2165
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:25,020
 I love that idea of mobile housing but I think why don't you put the houses on one side,

2166
02:26:25,020 --> 02:26:28,480
 make the street wider, have a nice walking path, you got your drainage, you don't have

2167
02:26:28,480 --> 02:26:29,820
 to worry about that.

2168
02:26:29,820 --> 02:26:30,820
 Call it a day.

2169
02:26:30,820 --> 02:26:34,320
 I know it's less money for these folks but I think you need to consider the people who

2170
02:26:34,320 --> 02:26:38,440
 have been there 30, 40, 50 years and there's a lot of us there.

2171
02:26:38,440 --> 02:26:39,440
 Thank you.

2172
02:26:39,440 --> 02:26:43,880
 >> Thank you for sharing your thoughts, appreciate it.

2173
02:26:43,880 --> 02:27:00,120
 Next card I have is Barbara Whitson, hello, if you'll state your name your time will begin.

2174
02:27:00,120 --> 02:27:07,680
 >> Barbara Whitson and the address I'm talking about is 2605 East McKinney Street, it's right

2175
02:27:07,680 --> 02:27:16,560
 next door on McKinney Street on the other side of the culvert and they want to put 119

2176
02:27:16,560 --> 02:27:23,800
 units next to it, two story and that would be a solid wall next to my property and I

2177
02:27:23,800 --> 02:27:30,840
 do not want and I'm opposing it and also whenever you put 119 units there, that's going to be

2178
02:27:30,840 --> 02:27:41,800
 at least 238 vehicles that's been going either McKinney Street or Audre Lane and they want

2179
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:46,680
 to go in and knock down all the trees and we plant them and how long does it take for

2180
02:27:46,680 --> 02:27:49,240
 the trees to grow?

2181
02:27:49,240 --> 02:27:59,000
 Many years and we've already restricted to two days a week for water and now they want

2182
02:27:59,000 --> 02:28:10,480
 to put a lot more houses all over Denton and I don't see an end to it but anyway, I'm opposing

2183
02:28:10,480 --> 02:28:16,760
 to it being built next door to my property.

2184
02:28:16,760 --> 02:28:17,760
 Thank you.

2185
02:28:17,760 --> 02:28:24,600
 >> Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

2186
02:28:24,600 --> 02:28:34,360
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item, come on down.

2187
02:28:34,360 --> 02:28:36,600
 Hi there, if you'll give us your name, your time will begin.

2188
02:28:36,600 --> 02:28:38,480
 >> Hi, I'm Matt Meraki.

2189
02:28:38,480 --> 02:28:39,960
 >> You can bring that up if you'd like to.

2190
02:28:39,960 --> 02:28:40,960
 >> Appreciate it.

2191
02:28:40,960 --> 02:28:42,880
 Thank you guys for your time today.

2192
02:28:42,880 --> 02:28:47,200
 I live over on 2416 Long Meadow, I know we kind of talked a little bit about Long Meadow

2193
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:51,320
 right there being next to Paisley, I talked to a few of my neighbors and I took a couple

2194
02:28:51,320 --> 02:28:54,920
 of notes just from what they wanted to say, they couldn't make it tonight, so I just wanted

2195
02:28:54,920 --> 02:28:55,920
 to bring it up.

2196
02:28:55,920 --> 02:29:02,240
 One of the biggest things that they're worried about is the 119 units there, are they going

2197
02:29:02,240 --> 02:29:04,900
 to be used for rentals or short term rentals?

2198
02:29:04,900 --> 02:29:07,500
 Is that something that could possibly come in the future?

2199
02:29:07,500 --> 02:29:11,360
 Nothing against single family homeowners, I think that they're just a different breed.

2200
02:29:11,360 --> 02:29:16,120
 I think that whenever you get renters, especially around the colleges and everything, they treat

2201
02:29:16,120 --> 02:29:17,720
 the properties differently.

2202
02:29:17,720 --> 02:29:22,080
 We're talking about those narrow roads as well and saying how there's a rule that they're

2203
02:29:22,080 --> 02:29:27,520
 going to park on one side, but I do definitely feel like that will be broken as well.

2204
02:29:27,520 --> 02:29:31,520
 That just kind of leads to the main point, some people are bringing up with traffic concerns

2205
02:29:31,520 --> 02:29:32,520
 and safety.

2206
02:29:32,520 --> 02:29:36,960
 The increase in vehicles just from the 119 additional houses is just going to cause local

2207
02:29:36,960 --> 02:29:43,360
 streets, not just Long Meadow, not just the road that they're building, but mainly Paisley

2208
02:29:43,360 --> 02:29:45,120
 and McKinney.

2209
02:29:45,120 --> 02:29:50,160
 We're looking at two roads that are just one single lane each and just both side traffic.

2210
02:29:50,160 --> 02:29:56,680
 I know there's talking about building that left lane to go into this development as well.

2211
02:29:56,680 --> 02:30:00,800
 Will that be considering widening the street on McKinney as well because it just doesn't

2212
02:30:00,800 --> 02:30:02,920
 seem feasible?

2213
02:30:02,920 --> 02:30:05,320
 We have so much traffic coming from 288.

2214
02:30:05,320 --> 02:30:07,700
 We have so much traffic trying to get to the highway.

2215
02:30:07,700 --> 02:30:11,840
 We have people going on Woodrow coming from Chapel, just trying to get over to back to

2216
02:30:11,840 --> 02:30:14,680
 their homes and it's already congested.

2217
02:30:14,680 --> 02:30:18,360
 I'll talk about the school as well, people were very concerned about just the safety

2218
02:30:18,360 --> 02:30:19,360
 over there.

2219
02:30:19,360 --> 02:30:24,560
 Two, three o'clock every day, traffic goes right in front of my house just for the car

2220
02:30:24,560 --> 02:30:25,640
 lines.

2221
02:30:25,640 --> 02:30:30,080
 The overflow goes into the neighborhoods right above in the streets right above because people

2222
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:33,760
 just park their cars and let their kids walk straight to the cars there, so they're just

2223
02:30:33,760 --> 02:30:37,280
 constantly going across the streets and everything.

2224
02:30:37,280 --> 02:30:42,800
 The idea of having a road straight from McKinney to Paisley into these homes, we've already

2225
02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:46,720
 had people this past year, just homeless, whether it be somebody and they're talking

2226
02:30:46,720 --> 02:30:51,560
 about the vandalism of that house on that side there that's kind of run down.

2227
02:30:51,560 --> 02:30:55,280
 People are a little worried that is that going to come to our neighborhoods as easier access?

2228
02:30:55,280 --> 02:30:59,520
 That was just one thing brought up.

2229
02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:03,480
 Infrastructure was just something else people were talking about too, just water, electricity,

2230
02:31:03,480 --> 02:31:07,880
 everything, utilities over there with 119, trash, pickup, fire trucks, everything over

2231
02:31:07,880 --> 02:31:17,240
 there is already in place, is that something that we can maintain with the additional units?

2232
02:31:17,240 --> 02:31:22,600
 A lot of people around me were worried about the environmental right there, the birds.

2233
02:31:22,600 --> 02:31:25,000
 There's a lot of natural birds around there.

2234
02:31:25,000 --> 02:31:27,560
 They've made nests, there's wildlife over there.

2235
02:31:27,560 --> 02:31:30,800
 They're just wondering how this is going to impact that and if there's been an environmental

2236
02:31:30,800 --> 02:31:34,600
 study done or anything about that, how this is going to impact it.

2237
02:31:34,600 --> 02:31:40,160
 Then lastly, it's just to the community.

2238
02:31:40,160 --> 02:31:43,760
 Our neighborhood right here, it's quiet.

2239
02:31:43,760 --> 02:31:46,280
 It's nice having that elementary school right there.

2240
02:31:46,280 --> 02:31:48,000
 They just put up that new playground.

2241
02:31:48,000 --> 02:31:50,960
 Everyone loves to go there and just hang out after work and everything.

2242
02:31:50,960 --> 02:31:57,320
 It's really nice and quiet and having these extra 119 units kind of brings up some worries.

2243
02:31:57,320 --> 02:31:58,320
 What's that going to be like?

2244
02:31:58,320 --> 02:32:01,300
 Just even with development, how much traffic is that going to be?

2245
02:32:01,300 --> 02:32:03,080
 What's the noise going to be like?

2246
02:32:03,080 --> 02:32:07,840
 While they're building everything, how hard do you have these heavy utility vehicles in

2247
02:32:07,840 --> 02:32:09,800
 the area?

2248
02:32:09,800 --> 02:32:14,780
 A couple of the concerns brought up and then I think ... Oh yeah, I already said this,

2249
02:32:14,780 --> 02:32:22,000
 but the rentals, they're just wondering just as a solution, is a moratorium allowed?

2250
02:32:22,000 --> 02:32:25,760
 Is there some sort of situation where you could say, "Hey, you purchased this property.

2251
02:32:25,760 --> 02:32:31,200
 You have to live there for six months to a year or two years and there can't be short-term

2252
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:35,840
 rentals like Airbnbs," or something like that, because I mean, Den's becoming this great

2253
02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:36,840
 tourist place.

2254
02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:38,920
 I mean, we're having so many things here now.

2255
02:32:38,920 --> 02:32:43,560
 We're getting a lot of people coming in from out of town, but it's the neighborhood there

2256
02:32:43,560 --> 02:32:47,720
 and it being impacted by people coming from out.

2257
02:32:47,720 --> 02:32:49,680
 Thank you guys.

2258
02:32:49,680 --> 02:32:52,280
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

2259
02:32:52,280 --> 02:32:57,440
 Yeah, I guess just to address those, I mean, short-term rentals would certainly be something

2260
02:32:57,440 --> 02:32:58,440
 that would be allowed.

2261
02:32:58,440 --> 02:33:09,320
 I think I saw that actually in the PD and there would be nothing restricting these units,

2262
02:33:09,320 --> 02:33:14,720
 these garden homes, for I guess lack of a better word, I'm not zero lot line homes,

2263
02:33:14,720 --> 02:33:15,720
 from being rentals, right?

2264
02:33:15,720 --> 02:33:20,720
 They can be, I mean, there's going to be no HOA in place that is going to restrict that,

2265
02:33:20,720 --> 02:33:22,960
 I don't think to my knowledge.

2266
02:33:22,960 --> 02:33:30,360
 And certainly we as a city can't restrict if somebody can rent their property or not.

2267
02:33:30,360 --> 02:33:31,960
 I don't have any other cards in front of me.

2268
02:33:31,960 --> 02:33:37,080
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item who has not already?

2269
02:33:37,080 --> 02:33:45,840
 Okay, seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and I will open the floor

2270
02:33:45,840 --> 02:33:48,040
 for a motion or discussion.

2271
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:54,240
 I'm going to look at my notes in the meantime.

2272
02:33:54,240 --> 02:33:55,240
 Commissioner Villareal.

2273
02:33:55,240 --> 02:33:56,920
 Thank you, Chair.

2274
02:33:56,920 --> 02:33:59,120
 Really appreciate the presentation.

2275
02:33:59,120 --> 02:34:04,280
 Due to the fact that it does not conform with the future land use map and concerns regarding

2276
02:34:04,280 --> 02:34:10,960
 traffic and the neighboring folks here in the community, I'm going to move to deny this

2277
02:34:10,960 --> 02:34:11,960
 application.

2278
02:34:11,960 --> 02:34:12,960
 Okay.

2279
02:34:12,960 --> 02:34:16,640
 We have a motion on the floor to deny.

2280
02:34:16,640 --> 02:34:20,840
 Do we have a second?

2281
02:34:20,840 --> 02:34:21,840
 All Commissioner Prud'homme?

2282
02:34:21,840 --> 02:34:22,840
 I second.

2283
02:34:22,840 --> 02:34:23,840
 Okay.

2284
02:34:23,840 --> 02:34:28,760
 We've got a first and a second to deny discussion.

2285
02:34:28,760 --> 02:34:29,760
 Commissioner Prud'homme is on the floor.

2286
02:34:29,760 --> 02:34:30,760
 Thank you, Chair.

2287
02:34:30,760 --> 02:34:36,280
 A couple, a couple of questions, I think for staff, these are more just general planning

2288
02:34:36,280 --> 02:34:37,280
 questions.

2289
02:34:37,280 --> 02:34:42,240
 I heard a lot of concerns from the community about, I think Commissioner Villareal summed

2290
02:34:42,240 --> 02:34:48,960
 it up about traffic and safety and that sort of thing.

2291
02:34:48,960 --> 02:34:58,640
 If we look at sort of a even apples to oranges measurement of a future where this as proposed

2292
02:34:58,640 --> 02:35:06,960
 gets built versus a future where an additional, call it 120 students are enrolled in Alexander

2293
02:35:06,960 --> 02:35:13,000
 Elementary, but they're living further away, which one would you anticipate to create more

2294
02:35:13,000 --> 02:35:19,120
 traffic and more of a burden to the community?

2295
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:26,520
 Well, the comprehensive plan talks about Infill as being something that the city desires because

2296
02:35:26,520 --> 02:35:35,960
 it is already served by existing roadways, utility, schools, services, it also puts residents

2297
02:35:35,960 --> 02:35:42,560
 closer to where we have those facilities and services, so it's something that the comprehensive

2298
02:35:42,560 --> 02:35:50,160
 plan talks about as a more desired way to grow.

2299
02:35:50,160 --> 02:35:57,840
 In terms of specifically, I don't know if I could predict how any individual resident

2300
02:35:57,840 --> 02:36:02,840
 would behave in terms of driving their kid to school versus walking.

2301
02:36:02,840 --> 02:36:09,840
 Once again, it is something that we do try to always look at with a development and a

2302
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:18,760
 proposal as to how it connects to those existing sidewalks, pedestrian areas, and you know,

2303
02:36:18,760 --> 02:36:24,280
 for instance, the utility easement, whenever we have one in a development, we always try

2304
02:36:24,280 --> 02:36:29,120
 to get a trail through it because it does allow more direct access through those linear

2305
02:36:29,120 --> 02:36:30,120
 corridors.

2306
02:36:30,120 --> 02:36:35,560
 So as far as specifically, I don't think I can answer it, but generally, you know, Infill

2307
02:36:35,560 --> 02:36:40,440
 situations are something that the comprehensive plan looks favorably upon.

2308
02:36:40,440 --> 02:36:47,040
 And then just a procedural question, if this body were to deny this application, I guess

2309
02:36:47,040 --> 02:36:51,520
 that would be a recommendation of denial, and then if city council also denied it, then

2310
02:36:51,520 --> 02:36:55,600
 that would trigger the, is it a one-year or two-year clock before they can come back with

2311
02:36:55,600 --> 02:36:57,880
 a plan that's substantially different?

2312
02:36:57,880 --> 02:37:03,040
 One year, unless, yes, unless it's substantially different.

2313
02:37:03,040 --> 02:37:04,040
 Okay.

2314
02:37:04,040 --> 02:37:05,040
 Thank you.

2315
02:37:05,040 --> 02:37:12,000
 Yeah, I'll just say, you know, everybody needs to vote how they feel led.

2316
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:17,280
 I just want, my concern is that we all understand what the trade-offs are.

2317
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:24,280
 And so the trade-offs to saying no to this are basically saying that we don't want homes

2318
02:37:24,280 --> 02:37:26,440
 at this price point in this neighborhood.

2319
02:37:26,440 --> 02:37:28,560
 And so the question is, well, why?

2320
02:37:28,560 --> 02:37:31,480
 And if not here, where?

2321
02:37:31,480 --> 02:37:36,560
 You know, there already are homes just northwest of Alexander, sort of on Mack Place, Mack

2322
02:37:36,560 --> 02:37:44,040
 Drive, that little half-circle area that are 35-foot wide lots.

2323
02:37:44,040 --> 02:37:45,400
 They're technically R4.

2324
02:37:45,400 --> 02:37:52,840
 They're not conforming, but to me, the density here and the feel of the neighborhood is not

2325
02:37:52,840 --> 02:37:58,480
 wildly different, and it'll give more people an opportunity at home ownership.

2326
02:37:58,480 --> 02:38:00,560
 So thank you.

2327
02:38:00,560 --> 02:38:01,840
 Thank you.

2328
02:38:01,840 --> 02:38:03,720
 The motion on the floor is to deny.

2329
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:05,760
 Is there any other discussion?

2330
02:38:05,760 --> 02:38:11,640
 Yeah, I'll just say a few words.

2331
02:38:11,640 --> 02:38:14,320
 I'm not against infill development.

2332
02:38:14,320 --> 02:38:19,760
 I think this piece of property is super difficult, the way it's configured.

2333
02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:28,560
 I think density feels different depending on how the lot is laid out, and it sure seems

2334
02:38:28,560 --> 02:38:32,920
 like we are just trying to force this in there, because what have we done?

2335
02:38:32,920 --> 02:38:37,840
 We're making up different setbacks that we don't have for other people.

2336
02:38:37,840 --> 02:38:45,480
 We are having a use that we don't even have described, I don't think, right now in our

2337
02:38:45,480 --> 02:38:46,480
 development code.

2338
02:38:46,480 --> 02:38:51,200
 So I'm all for trying to make things work, but to me, it's just trying to force this

2339
02:38:51,200 --> 02:38:56,400
 in there, and effectively, we're changing the zoning on this.

2340
02:38:56,400 --> 02:39:02,720
 That's what this request is, is a PDR6 zoning.

2341
02:39:02,720 --> 02:39:04,380
 There could be less density here.

2342
02:39:04,380 --> 02:39:07,000
 It's not going to be as profitable for the landowner.

2343
02:39:07,000 --> 02:39:10,920
 That's the bottom line for it, unfortunately.

2344
02:39:10,920 --> 02:39:16,520
 I'm not against houses going in here.

2345
02:39:16,520 --> 02:39:18,660
 The walkability factor is good.

2346
02:39:18,660 --> 02:39:28,960
 It's trying to cram 119 units into this oddly shaped lot to be able to cram 119 units in.

2347
02:39:28,960 --> 02:39:32,520
 I don't even know how these people are going to maneuver on a busy timeframe when trying

2348
02:39:32,520 --> 02:39:35,920
 to go to work, how they're getting in and out of here.

2349
02:39:35,920 --> 02:39:41,480
 Truly, you've got a straight line, you're either going out to Paisley or you're going

2350
02:39:41,480 --> 02:39:46,520
 out to McKinney, neither of which is ideal at certain times of day for making any kind

2351
02:39:46,520 --> 02:39:48,640
 of move right or left.

2352
02:39:48,640 --> 02:39:49,960
 We don't have traffic lights.

2353
02:39:49,960 --> 02:39:52,480
 We've got site constraints on Paisley.

2354
02:39:52,480 --> 02:39:53,760
 I mean, drive that.

2355
02:39:53,760 --> 02:39:55,920
 That is a site constraint now.

2356
02:39:55,920 --> 02:40:02,360
 If you're on Long Meadow, you're basically kind of like, "Okay, I think I can go."

2357
02:40:02,360 --> 02:40:04,520
 This is just adding more to that.

2358
02:40:04,520 --> 02:40:08,480
 Again, I'm not against infill.

2359
02:40:08,480 --> 02:40:13,420
 I'm not against trying to put some residential here.

2360
02:40:13,420 --> 02:40:18,140
 This feels extremely forced to me.

2361
02:40:18,140 --> 02:40:25,500
 With what we've heard and what we know and what we can see as proposed, it's not anything

2362
02:40:25,500 --> 02:40:28,640
 I can get behind as it's presented.

2363
02:40:28,640 --> 02:40:29,640
 Commissioner Villarreal.

2364
02:40:29,640 --> 02:40:30,640
 Thank you, Chair.

2365
02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:36,200
 Just to echo some of those points, yeah, fully support the creation of more townhome neighborhoods.

2366
02:40:36,200 --> 02:40:42,480
 I live in a townhome in the villages of Carmel, very much love my townhome, but our goal is

2367
02:40:42,480 --> 02:40:45,280
 to not maximize the profits for each parcel.

2368
02:40:45,280 --> 02:40:50,480
 Our goal is to make sure it conforms with the current use of the land, it conforms with

2369
02:40:50,480 --> 02:40:52,880
 the future land use map.

2370
02:40:52,880 --> 02:40:57,680
 This just doesn't do that, so with that, I really do think this plan just doesn't make

2371
02:40:57,680 --> 02:40:58,680
 sense for the area.

2372
02:40:58,680 --> 02:40:59,680
 Thanks.

2373
02:40:59,680 --> 02:41:02,960
 Thank you, Commissioner Perdo.

2374
02:41:02,960 --> 02:41:07,480
 Just to provide some additional context with my thoughts, I agree.

2375
02:41:07,480 --> 02:41:11,120
 There are elements of this proposal that I think are really exciting and refreshing.

2376
02:41:11,120 --> 02:41:17,600
 There are opportunities for homeownership that may not exist currently, because it's

2377
02:41:17,600 --> 02:41:21,520
 difficult for many of our residents to achieve.

2378
02:41:21,520 --> 02:41:24,320
 I like that this is brought forth.

2379
02:41:24,320 --> 02:41:27,080
 I like some of the elements of this proposal.

2380
02:41:27,080 --> 02:41:33,360
 It's just, I agree with Chair Ellis, I think it's just too much, given the context of the

2381
02:41:33,360 --> 02:41:35,520
 size.

2382
02:41:35,520 --> 02:41:42,400
 Okay, and just speak one other point that I forgot.

2383
02:41:42,400 --> 02:41:48,800
 The dream of homeownership, obviously, is something that many people strive for.

2384
02:41:48,800 --> 02:41:54,440
 The issue with this is, most likely at the price point it would be, it would be inviting

2385
02:41:54,440 --> 02:42:01,140
 an immense amount of investors in our town that has a lot of rental need because of our

2386
02:42:01,140 --> 02:42:05,440
 universities.

2387
02:42:05,440 --> 02:42:10,640
 There's nothing to say that that would be 119 single family homeowners who are going

2388
02:42:10,640 --> 02:42:14,160
 to reside there, unfortunately.

2389
02:42:14,160 --> 02:42:17,440
 Okay, there is a motion on the floor to deny.

2390
02:42:17,440 --> 02:42:19,440
 Is there any further discussion?

2391
02:42:19,440 --> 02:42:30,080
 Okay, let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

2392
02:42:30,080 --> 02:42:34,760
 That motion will carry 4-1.

2393
02:42:34,760 --> 02:42:38,080
 That will take us to our planning and zoning matrix.

2394
02:42:38,080 --> 02:42:50,680
 I will turn that over to Tina.

2395
02:42:50,680 --> 02:42:54,000
 I was counting commissioners to make sure we saw the court.

2396
02:42:54,000 --> 02:42:56,360
 Oh yeah, we sure did.

2397
02:42:56,360 --> 02:42:59,360
 Let's see.

2398
02:42:59,360 --> 02:43:04,520
 Two weeks ago, when I gave the matrix report, I shared with the commission that we would

2399
02:43:04,520 --> 02:43:10,560
 be doing a report on multifamily housing counts, properties that are entitled, versus units

2400
02:43:10,560 --> 02:43:13,280
 under construction, what have you, that's taken us a little longer to pull that data

2401
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:15,720
 together.

2402
02:43:15,720 --> 02:43:20,160
 We were anticipating later this month that your August 23rd, or excuse me, October 23rd,

2403
02:43:20,160 --> 02:43:23,720
 not August, but in all likelihood that's going to be November, so just wanted to give you

2404
02:43:23,720 --> 02:43:27,280
 an update on that.

2405
02:43:27,280 --> 02:43:31,840
 There's no city council actions to report since their last meeting in terms of zoning

2406
02:43:31,840 --> 02:43:33,680
 and development cases.

2407
02:43:33,680 --> 02:43:35,280
 There was a new commissioner appointed.

2408
02:43:35,280 --> 02:43:39,800
 Unfortunately, she was not able to join us this evening, but Commissioner Lillian Prado

2409
02:43:39,800 --> 02:43:45,120
 Carrillo is going to be joining the commission as well.

2410
02:43:45,120 --> 02:43:48,480
 That concludes my report.

2411
02:43:48,480 --> 02:43:50,600
 Thank you.

2412
02:43:50,600 --> 02:43:52,480
 Anything to add to the matrix?

2413
02:43:52,480 --> 02:43:54,160
 Commissioner Pruitt.

2414
02:43:54,160 --> 02:43:55,160
 Thank you, Chair.

2415
02:43:55,160 --> 02:43:56,160
 Two things.

2416
02:43:56,160 --> 02:44:01,160
 First one, brief, I'll just throw it on there.

2417
02:44:01,160 --> 02:44:09,960
 If perhaps council does approve this application next week, then I think we need sort of an

2418
02:44:09,960 --> 02:44:13,940
 update on the mobility plan in this area of town.

2419
02:44:13,940 --> 02:44:24,120
 There's a lot of things going on, be it the concrete trail grant award, the approval from

2420
02:44:24,120 --> 02:44:30,160
 the bond, and actually I think it was some city funds and trip funds for the sidewalk

2421
02:44:30,160 --> 02:44:32,240
 along McKinney.

2422
02:44:32,240 --> 02:44:40,400
 I'd like to see a method, again, contingent on this going forward through council, to

2423
02:44:40,400 --> 02:44:48,320
 extend that trail connectivity across McKinney Street down toward the concrete trail, specifically

2424
02:44:48,320 --> 02:44:53,260
 just let's plan it before we sink a bunch of capital money into it and then have to

2425
02:44:53,260 --> 02:44:59,240
 rip it up and redo it to achieve that, if that makes sense.

2426
02:44:59,240 --> 02:45:09,120
 And then secondly, I think given some of our discussions at our work session today, I would

2427
02:45:09,120 --> 02:45:23,160
 like to see a broader discussion about how sort of communal living or those types of

2428
02:45:23,160 --> 02:45:31,720
 solutions with small homes could be achieved.

2429
02:45:31,720 --> 02:45:38,480
 My research into this is that that was basically punted during the 2019 code development, and

2430
02:45:38,480 --> 02:45:45,400
 I'm sure Commissioner Ellis could give me more details, but it was a sticky wicket,

2431
02:45:45,400 --> 02:45:52,520
 and so we just said, okay, well, if we do this, it has to be a PD.

2432
02:45:52,520 --> 02:46:04,160
 I think there's various concerns about where communities of lower income allowing people

2433
02:46:04,160 --> 02:46:11,600
 to get up and transition from hard times should go or shouldn't go, but ultimately unless

2434
02:46:11,600 --> 02:46:19,280
 we set forward some clear development regulations of this is what it has to be and this is how

2435
02:46:19,280 --> 02:46:25,120
 it has to function and this is how it has to be sensitive to surrounding neighbors,

2436
02:46:25,120 --> 02:46:33,080
 if we leave it as you have to do a PD, I'm concerned that it's just never going to happen

2437
02:46:33,080 --> 02:46:38,580
 or maybe it wouldn't happen in places that would give those people reasonable access

2438
02:46:38,580 --> 02:46:40,760
 to things they need.

2439
02:46:40,760 --> 02:46:44,080
 So I recognize that's a big ask, it's still a sticky wicket.

2440
02:46:44,080 --> 02:46:50,520
 Are you asking for a work session, discussing tiny homes?

2441
02:46:50,520 --> 02:47:00,000
 Yes, and specifically how could we move forward to making them buy right in some manner within

2442
02:47:00,000 --> 02:47:01,000
 some zoning district?

2443
02:47:01,000 --> 02:47:02,000
 In some manner.

2444
02:47:02,000 --> 02:47:03,000
 Okay.

2445
02:47:03,000 --> 02:47:04,000
 Sure.

2446
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:09,320
 Anything else for the matrix?

2447
02:47:09,320 --> 02:47:16,360
 Tina, I guess with just what you said about it taking some time to gather that data for

2448
02:47:16,360 --> 02:47:21,040
 multifamily, you said it would be November, okay?

2449
02:47:21,040 --> 02:47:25,040
 Not sure what's on our agenda between now and then, but that was my whole goal for asking

2450
02:47:25,040 --> 02:47:29,040
 about it because I know we have been getting backlogged and things have been getting postponed

2451
02:47:29,040 --> 02:47:33,080
 that are going to have to do with multifamily coming forward, so I'm hoping there's not

2452
02:47:33,080 --> 02:47:34,920
 a whole lot between then and now.

2453
02:47:34,920 --> 02:47:42,040
 Yeah, we're just trying to consistently replicate the data and working through our limited data

2454
02:47:42,040 --> 02:47:48,120
 tracking sources, and so wanting to make sure that the data we do provide you all is as

2455
02:47:48,120 --> 02:47:55,320
 close as factual as we can and so that's been our challenge with respect to that.

2456
02:47:55,320 --> 02:48:00,080
 So it's not that we're not trying to provide it, it's just we're trying to work through

2457
02:48:00,080 --> 02:48:05,400
 having consistent application each time we pull the data, so.

2458
02:48:05,400 --> 02:48:06,400
 Understood.

2459
02:48:06,400 --> 02:48:07,400
 Thank you.

2460
02:48:07,400 --> 02:48:09,540
 Just had a fair summary, Haley, so yes.

2461
02:48:09,540 --> 02:48:11,400
 Okay, appreciate that.

2462
02:48:11,400 --> 02:48:13,360
 Any concluding items?

2463
02:48:13,360 --> 02:48:18,360
 Okay, with that, I'll go ahead and adjourn our meeting at 8 16 p.m.

2464
02:48:18,360 --> 02:48:18,600
 Thank you.