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 So, in seeing that we have a quorum, I will now call to order the regular meeting of the

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 review committee at 530E. Our first item for consideration is item A, number C, our C24021,

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 receive comments from members of the public. Members of the public who wait to speak must

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 be present at the meeting and submit speaker cards to staff prior to the item being called.

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 Five speakers can speak for two minutes each on any items on the agenda. I have one card

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 in front of me from Liam Blom Whitefield. Liam, if you could take the podium. He's already

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 taken the podium. Excellent. Hello, my name's Liam. I'm here to speak on, like, the, to

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 support the vision of trying to get our elections from May to November because a few years ago,

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 like, after I saw the data, me and some other people worked on trying to get our elections

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 moved. It's like, on the research that I did, it is, and I think now that, that we have more

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 data about elections, that we, we are trying to get people to participate in our local

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 elections. We have tried different things like mailers and other things, but what has

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 fundamentally doing is just having the election with other, with the more known election,

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 people will vote it from, like, 8% at best to 44%. That, those numbers, I think, justifies

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 the movement. And then we can see, like, post, post the 2020 election, it's like, at first,

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 I thought maybe there's some hope in, like, we could keep at, like, 15%, but we moved

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 just back down to 8% with the most recent mayoral election. So we've had, we've had a

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 reversion to the mean, unfortunately. But, and I do think, and, like, I don't think there

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 should be worry about partisanship, because both Gerard and Deb, both fairly far apart

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 on issues, won that same, won in that same year. And we'd also be increasing our share

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 in the state's constitutional elections in those, because that's when the state's

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 constitutional amendments are in the off years, you know. I can see the rest of my time.

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 >> All right. Thank you. All right. Our next item is item B, number CRC24-022, consider

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 approval of the minutes of November 5th, 2024, charter review committee. Is there a motion

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 to approve the minutes? Motion to approve for minutes four. Also, a motion from Commissioner

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 Danhoff, or, sorry, second from Commissioner Danhoff. All those in favor, please raise

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 your hand and say aye. Aye. All those opposed, please raise your hand and say nay. Motion

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 passes. All right. Before we reach item C, I would like to make a proposal for standing

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 rules for the committee, given that we have a lot of items to get through that are not

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 full discussions today. So I would like to propose that for item D, that each individual

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 item considered under item D, we limit discussion to two minutes in discussion in favor of the

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 motion from somebody who proposed that amendment. Two minutes if anyone opposes that motion.

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 And then one in favor and one against. And that's for the discussion for the nine items

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 under item D. Do I hear a second? I'll second. Second. Commissioner Kohr, any discussion?

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 Clarification. So you're going to discuss it, or you're going to ask if there's a motion

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 to do that, to do what, number one? And then have the two minutes?

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 Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying on that procedure? Are you going to present it and say

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 yes, I have a motion? And then the discussion, or are you going to discuss it? I would hear

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 discussion from somebody in favor, discussion from somebody opposed, discussion from somebody

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 in favor, discussion from somebody opposed, and then hear a motion. I don't want restrictions.

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 Any other discussion, Commissioner Runke? So just to clarify in my mind, we're looking at

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 pre-discussion, the motion, and then we will have discussion post-motion. My intention is that we

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 would move to voting after hearing the motion. I have a second. Just because we have nine items,

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 nine individual items under that item, and these are not, this is just a motion on whether we want

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 to even hear further discussion of the motion, so I don't want to get bogged down in these discussions.

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 I want to respect people's time and make sure that we're moving through all nine of these things.

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 And that's just to discuss it further and further at a later meeting. So we're just providing

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 guidance to staff on this is something we even want to consider to consider. But if it's something

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 we're like we have no interest in and we can vote to say no. Correct. Okay. Thank you. All right.

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 We have a motion for standing rules. Second. I will now take a vote on that. All those in favor of

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 the opposed standing rule, please raise your right hand and say aye. Aye. One, two, three, five, six,

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 seven. All those opposed, please raise your right hand and say nay. Ready. One, two, three, four.

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 Please keep your hands up. Sorry. One, two, three, four, five. Aye. Nay. So that standing item does

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 not exist. All right. Cool. All right. Moving on to item C, number CRC24-023. Receive a report,

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 hold a discussion, and give staff direction on increasing the two-year term of the municipal

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 judge to a four-year term. With the current provision of the municipal court, it basically,

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 this is the small section from the municipal court that basically sets all of the rules for the

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 municipal court. The current provision is that the municipal judge resides over the municipal court.

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 They are appointed and served at the pleasure of counsel and must be a qualified attorney,

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 licensed to practice law in the state of Texas, and have any other qualifications required by

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 the government code. They have all of the duties assigned to the municipal judge through the

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 government code as well, and then compensation is set by the counsel. So as you can tell, there's

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 nothing currently in our charter that sets the term of the municipal judge, but it does allow for,

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 the state statutes allow for a term up to four years for any municipal judge in Texas. Currently,

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 it is two years. It can go up to four years, but it has to be stated in ordinance or in charter if

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 it is more than two years. So these are just some of those relevant codes. The government code

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 states that a judge of the municipal court serves for an office of two years unless

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 mutual municipality provides a longer term, and that is allowable under the same thing that allows

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 for council members, either elected or appointed city officials, to serve for a term of up to four

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 years. And then this is our city code that currently stipulates a two-year term appointment

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 in even number of years, so we just recently reappointed our judge for a two-year term.

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 And some considerations. I had a really hard time finding any best practices or resources or research

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 specific to this topic, but some of the considerations provided by our municipal

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 judge were, you know, stability for judges, continuing continuity for staff and the community

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 long-term planning and projects, and judicial independence from council.

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 And then as always, we have our city comparisons. As you can see, the majority of cities around here

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 do have two-year terms, with Frisco being the outlier having a four-year term, and then whether

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 or not that term is stipulated either in the charter or ordinance, it's kind of a mixed bag.

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 And then in comparable-sized cities, it's a bit of a mix between two and four years.

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 In Midland and Round Rock, they just have contract terms, so there's not an ordinance or

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 anything that really stipulates a term. And then in some of the larger cities,

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 Austin has a four-year term, and that is also a contract and not a charter or ordinance.

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 And then El Paso also has a four-year term.

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 So with that, I'll turn it back to the committee for any questions and discussion.

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 First, do I hear any questions from the committee? Commissioner Jones?

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 As the current, how often have you switched? You know, how long have you switched?

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 That's a great question. I don't know, but I can look into that.

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 Commissioner Danhoff?

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 Correct. They serve us, yeah, at the pleasure of council.

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 At the pleasure of council, fire them as well, basically?

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 Yeah.

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 So I just, I guess that was like, I don't understand that independence from council is a problem.

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 Uh, Commissioner Bikes? Oh, I'm sorry. We're even good. Okay, Commissioner Bikes?

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 So I just want to clarify Mr. Danhoff's question. So if they're appointed for a two-year term

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 and the council decides in that two-year term that they wanted to make the change,

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 is that possible within the two-year, their original year, or is it just,

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 they can only decide at the two-year mark?

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 I think there are certain things, maybe if there were malfeasance or something like that,

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 where something could be addressed in the middle of a term, but typically it would be a two-year term.

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 So if the proposal of four versus two came in and the council didn't necessarily like the

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 choice that they had made, they would be locked into it for a longer period of time as possibly.

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 I believe so.

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 Thank you.

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 Mr. McClure?

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 These people elected or appointed?

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 They're appointed by council.

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 How many of them are?

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 Just one. There's one municipal judge and then there are associate judges that are hired by the

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 judge or appointed by council.

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 Which one?

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 The associate judges.

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 Since you've been appointed by council, or they're hired by the judge?

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 I think they're hired by the judge, sorry.

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 Will you clarify?

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 Yes.

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 Yes.

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 For the remainder of that initial term?

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 I think so.

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 And then the follow-up question would be if we contemplated four years that would extend,

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 there's not a statute limitation where you have to pay them an X amount of time up to,

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 so it could be four years at that point.

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 Right, we would have to pay into the importance of this contract.

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 We have to pull this contract up, so if this contract says, hey, if you let him go before

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 his term is up, and it says that we have to pay him two years' severance, three years' severance,

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 whatever in the contract if that comes to that, then we could pay him.

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 That provision does not apply if the judge is found to have been fired for reasons of

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 malfeasance or...

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 Correct.

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 Commissioner Molina-Pore?

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 So in this contract, if they do something wildly inappropriate, we don't have to pay

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 severance, but if it's like we like to bring them cancel and they just don't like the judge,

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 that if they want to let them go early, that's when severance kicks in.

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 But if they're found guilty of malfeasance or doing something inappropriate, no severance.

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 Correct.

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 Okay.

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 Commissioner Johnson?

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 The judges that are underneath the municipal judge, are they paid as well?

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 Yes.

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 Commissioner Jones?

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 And I know we have one municipal judge that's here for a really long time.

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 All the way.

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 He was here for a year.

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 So I guess every two years, he's pre-appointed.

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 Yes.

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 And we did find out our current municipal judge, Tyler Atkinson, has served since 2020.

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 Commissioner Monge-Niguera?

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 On the, so shifting it to four years, in my mind, does that, does that kind of help us

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 attract talent that we can guarantee a longer term?

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 Whereas the two years, they're like, okay, do I want to potentially upend my entire practice

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 to maybe only work for the city two years and then run the risk for four years to kind of provide

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 a larger pool of applicants a greater assurance that they will have some job security and

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 independence to implement programs, things like that.

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 I'm just trying to think of some good reason.

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 That would make sense to me.

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 I think it would take a lot for someone to say, okay, I'm going to step out of either

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 my personal business or my other job to only work there for two years.

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 Life is long, but it could be scary for some.

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 So four years would be thoughtful.

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 Yeah, I think that's absolutely an interpretation of it.

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 And I think that was kind of, you know, what part of what was being addressed and considerations

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 under stability.

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 Commissioner Brewer, did you have a comment?

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 Commissioner Fikes?

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 So I guess the answer to that question is really more speculation that we think that

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 that is probably the case.

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 If we could, but I guess the flip side is it doesn't sound like we've ever had an issue

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 getting talent in that role.

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 Is that safe to say?

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 I couldn't say yes or no.

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 Commissioner Jones?

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 Did you describe what it is a municipal judge does?

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 Yeah, so they run the municipal court and the municipal court hears all of the cases

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 that fall underneath any of the city code of ordinances.

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 So citations that the city police give out or code enforcement or any other

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 city department gives out for various city related offenses.

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 Speeding tickets.

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 Yeah, yes.

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 I wasn't able to determine, but in regard to the concern of giving up one's practice

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 while they are a municipal judge, does the municipal judge have control over the time

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 that his court is in session?

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 It could be quite possible that he could hear speeding tickets and other things from

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 nine to noon and then do his private practice from one to five or that.

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 I know with being at a couple of trials as a observer with things where a judge

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 had a trial scheduled, he then ended up changing it.

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 My other suggestion or question is that if one looks at a four-year appointment time,

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 according to the code present, you have a municipal judge going into office on even

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 years. So that would be the point in time where those other council are from the specific

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 districts. The associate assistant goes in and he would also have if we give him a four-year

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 term. It would coincide with the odd number of years of every other election that takes

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 place to put your at-large council members in. So you have an overlap of who puts them

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 in. You have an overlap for a timing for both positions. And doing it that way on a four-year

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 term would give some stability to the court. It would also give stability for interacting

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 with council and things because the different ones between your municipal judge and his

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 assistant go in at standard times. So if this were this, when you have the election for

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 say 2025, that would be the point at which an assistant would go in. He would be in from

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 2025 to 2029. For the election that was held previously, meaning this year in 2024, you

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 would have your municipal judge going in 2024 and coming out for his term in 2028. Now I

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 did not, because totally here, if there are term limits on the judges, having that, because

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 my research said no there wasn't, but I wanted to be sure of that. So with those kind of

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 thoughts in mind, I think taking it to a four-year term would be appropriate. That's my thoughts

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 based on those criteria that I thought would be appropriate.

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 Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

203
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

204
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

207
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

210
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

211
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

212
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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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 Yeah, gay marriage is a general term for, you know, two women being married or two men being married

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 or even under current legislative framework. Like if there's a transgender man who is in a straight

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 relationship to a woman, they'll still kind of get classed as gay by Texas likely given that

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 their movement on transgender rights reasons. So is there a true definition for that? So when we

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 ask the city to do that, they'll have guidelines. Civil unions would be the institution that existed

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 prior to the legalization of gay marriage. So prior to gay marriage being legalized, civil unions

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 were what queer couples saw when they could not receive a fully legally recognized marriage.

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 Commissioner Danno? More of a question. Is that appropriate for a charter or should that be

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 separately? I was asking, should that be an ordinance versus being in a charter? So just

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 a very specific thing, right? Like charters more like overarching how you run the city,

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 like almost like the constitution. I'm just, I'm just wondering if that should be, I mean,

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 honestly, I'd vote for it, but should that be a, should that be a like ordinance from the city

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 council? Like, should that be a proposal in a different way? Should I see what you're saying?

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 Yeah. Commissioner Mungigware, did you want to respond to that? I think to your point that even

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 the US constitution does provide civil liberty protections as well as instructions on how to work

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 back our government. So I think this could very, this could very well be an ordinance, but I think

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 it being into charter, I think it kind of insulates it from, yeah, like as a year to year political

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 changes and also just makes it like that more much of a concrete protection as remote as the

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 possibility is that this could ever, could ever happen. I think it makes it really firm that it

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 won't be changed. So we would have to come back to what we're doing right now, a separate charter

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 committee in a different year to discuss repealing it. So I think it just kind of insulates it from

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 that year to year change. Yeah. My comment on that would just be that a lot of the items that we've

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 seen, you know, there's the charts where it says other cities do this by a charter, other cities

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 do this by ordinance. I think a lot of the items that we're discussing do have the potential to

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 fit in either as an ordinance or as a charter. Commissioner Fice? This is a question about the

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 legality. If our charter ordinance differs from state or federal, I don't know which one, either or both,

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 would that expose us to a lawsuit? So, for example, like with the healthcare issue, that would

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 just be saying that if you're in a civil union, your civil partnership partner can receive the

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 healthcare that they previously received as your spouse, right? Because healthcare benefits transfer

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 through marriage. So this would just be saying that we as a city are going to say, even if you're no

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 longer perhaps married, if that right goes away, God forbid, but even if you're no longer married,

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 you will still be able to retain that healthcare benefit. And that's something that's within the

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 city would be my perspective on. But if at some point in the future, the state law changes where

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 this is in is contradictory to state law, we would expose ourselves to a lawsuit. Is that is that

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 correct, Ms. Brown? But in the past, we've been sued and then whether we've enforced it or not,

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 correct or not? So we, I think, are at legal expense to try to defend that position. I would

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 assume that right. Thank you. Commissioner Molina-Ford? Well, I think it's two different

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 conversations. The Supreme Court rolling it back would just mean there's not protections offered,

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 but the city as a private employer folks would protect their health insurance. That's different

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 than like the state of Texas passed a law criminalizing same sex or civil unions. So this

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 is just basically us putting in writing and solidifying that like current city employees

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 in civil unions wouldn't lose their health insurance. I think that's a different conversation

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 than like if the trigger amendment wouldn't make silly people per se, or having these sort of

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 criminal. Well, like, but like, okay. Yeah, I will answer your question now. Much like a private

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 business is allowed to offer health insurance to whoever they want, some businesses offer it to,

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 if you're adopting other ways that they kind of handle their own open enrollment period,

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 the city has the option to do that how they want to, to provide the insurance. This, and this,

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 we would discuss this later we get input from the public. What this would be would just be

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 protecting health insurance. And that's kind of where it comes down to city benefits are currently

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 extended to all married couples, regardless of gender identity, and how that goes. So this would

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 just be protecting that. The conversation does shift. It's a question of like, now it's illegal

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 to be in a same sex marriage. That's when I assume our counsel would have to step in and say, well,

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 that's got to come off the books because now it's illegal. And just to echo, again, we are merely

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 discussing whether we would like to discuss with that in mind, unless there's anything quick.

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 So this point of clarification to the chair, are you saying this would own this?

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 No, no, no, it's fine. That's why I want to clarify, because we started

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 convoluted maybe just city employees with all people. So you want, what is the, what is the

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 intent, I guess, or what is the scope that we can protect, maybe might be a better with language?

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 Sure. And I think that's something that we want, we would want to have presented to us by staff.

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 Should this move on to further discussion? I have not read every single code and ordinance on the

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 city of Denton folks, of course. So I'm not entirely sure what the scope of those protections or

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 restrictions might be within the entire scope of Denton's ordinances. But all of the kind of like

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 equal treatment that's within the city's rightful scope to protect or provide.

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 So is this just for city employees? Are we trying to force the whole city, any business out there?

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 Because you put all this cost on them and they don't want to do it. It's really an unfunded

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 mandate. My intention with this specific proposed amendment is that when the city is involved,

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 it treats people equally. So if, for example, there is some city provision where, for example,

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 we have a law on the books that says that you can only have four or three or four unrelated people

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 living in a house together, which I don't know that we've ever enforced. But within this framework,

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 then unrelated under that would include these civil unions. So you wouldn't suddenly be subject

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 to that if you were married and you had six people in the house and then you become unmarried because

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 of a Supreme Court decision. Yeah, but if the city hires somebody, it's a private business.

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 Most of the time they have to go by the guidelines the city's got. So you're putting all those

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 guidelines on anybody that contract. I think we can discuss that. I'll hear a vote on this

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 just to keep us moving. Or rather, I'll motion in favor of this. Second that. Second from Patrick.

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 Let's get one point of clarification. We're merely voting on we want to discuss this. Correct.

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 We're discussing motioning for further discussion. All right. All those in favor

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 of merely discussing this further and not necessarily recommending it to counsel,

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 please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.

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 All those opposed, please raise your hand and say nay.

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 All right. One, two, three. So we will discuss that at a further meeting. We will now move on to

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 discussing whether or not we want to further discuss. Consider implementing a one-year residency

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 requirement for individuals serving on a citizen or committee or commission appointed by.

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 I do have some information on this one just to clarify the conversation. We did get some questions

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 on each of these items. So I'll chime in for the ones that we did. But someone asked what the

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 residency requirement is now. So currently for counsel, the charter states that counsel has to

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 have a one-year prior to being elected residency requirement in the city of Denton. And if it's one

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 of the seated district seats, they have to be inside of those district boundaries for one year.

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 There is not a specific residency requirement, time specific residency requirement for anyone

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 who serves on a volunteer board, commission or committee. That was changed a number of years ago

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 in an effort I understand at the time was to make, there were more stipulations and more

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 requirements for serving on boards and commissions and counsel viewed those as a barrier to people.

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 Serving on those committees. So they kind of pulled some of those back and some of them were

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 a residency time requirement and then also being registered to vote and that sort of thing. So

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 that's just a little bit of background information to frame the conversation.

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 Commissioner Molina for. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this. I'm really interested to see

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 what the one year is and what we would be limiting ourselves out of in terms of like, for example,

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 somebody moves to Denton and they have amazing qualifications to be on traffic safety and then

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 they have to wait a year. You know, they're still paying into Denton Electricity, Denton services,

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 buying their groceries in Denton, being in Dentonite, but they don't get the honor of

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 serving on a board. I mean, these are volunteer positions. I get a one year requirement for

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 counsel, like maybe don't move here from Dallas and River City Council without actually being here for

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00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,040
 a year. That's different. You make big decisions. I think this should be open to people. If you're

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 a registered voter, the current, you know, stipulations that are already on serving on a

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 committee, I would like to hear more on this and get some more staff input of why a one year

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00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:20,400
 requirement is necessary. Commissioner Fikes. Is there a motion? Oh, is that a motion? Can I motion

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 with my discussion first? We can motion and then discuss. Oh, yeah, so I would make a motion to.

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00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:35,040
 Well, please, please let her finish the motion. I would move to discuss implementing a one year

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 resident requirement at a later meeting. Is that the recording? Second by Commissioner Fikes.

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 Discussion. Commissioner Rumsky.

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 As one who probably within this room is one of the newer that might have moved here in October 14.

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 Trying to learn about the city, about, you know, further understand the resident.

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 If I were to try to run less than a year for something or even at a year for city council.

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 I might clarify. OK, this is not about city council. This is about four dimensions.

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00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:35,360
 True. But I would also like to extend the idea of looking into city council members,

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 perhaps a two year residency. So that was why I was bringing it up. OK, and I would like to suggest

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 a two year residency. So taking from. I agree it needs a further discussion.

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 Now, I know I'm older to me, but anyway, Commissioner Johnson.

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 So we are discussing the length of a person can be in the city for a year.

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 But are we talking about?

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 About a person. You know, Philip said in the same way that we in the same.

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 What I can say, we're talking about number two. I'm sorry. Yeah, my bad. Oh, OK.

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00:46:54,320 --> 00:47:01,600
 Mr. Daniel, I don't need to discuss people. I'd like to. OK, all right. I'm going to be

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 voting now just because I'm currently looking at the list of vacancies for boards and commissions.

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 It's quite long with the current restrictions. So with that said,

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 everybody who is in favor of further discussion, please raise your hand and say aye.

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 One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. All right. All those opposed,

364
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:39,200
 we will hear further discussions on that at a later meeting. Item three,

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 consider moving municipal elections from May to November. Do we have that presentation?

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 I don't have a presentation, and maybe Amanda can discuss the legal implications of this just briefly.

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00:47:52,720 --> 00:48:02,880
 Sorry. The current state law really does not allow for them based on the way that it's.

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 I'm going to start with any further questions on that before.

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 Witness this be more like a trigger, though, that if those that did change,

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 if the state legislature saw this, I would just say, you know, we have other stuff to talk about.

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00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:33,280
 It doesn't seem like. Well, personally, I would love all of that. I would love all

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 elections to be in November. It doesn't seem like the city should invest time and resources

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 into figuring out how to un-convolute state law when we've got like other things to talk about.

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 So I would not recommend another discussion about this with the way the state law is written now.

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00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,320
 Commissioner Frensky. I agree with your

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 recommendations having worked the elections as well as being a voter registrar. Since 2015,

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 knowing that the state under the secretary of state is in control as to whether municipal

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 elections are, the May elections, besides having the council members, also has your school board.

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 So that is a consistent audit. Another reason to not discuss or even try it

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00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:35,520
 is that the way the elections run is in May or as well as in November.

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00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,840
 Elections board has certain fees that go toward

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 being expensed out either by the city, by the school board, or when it's a national election,

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00:49:53,600 --> 00:50:01,120
 it's by the state. So the other thing is that having worked the elections

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 and having several people come in and ask me what's on the ballot, who's on the ballot,

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 who am I supposed to vote for, what does this bond mean, and as a worker one cannot

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 lead them to anything other than literature. So if you put everybody and using this year as an

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 example you're going to have a very full down ballot and if you put the councils on in that

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 they're going to be way down at the bottom and by that time people will perhaps, and I've seen where

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00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:55,680
 ballots have not been because of going through the app, they don't even vote. So with that in mind,

390
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:07,360
 I agree with you. Commissioner Ezekiel? Okay I just want to understand that the law that we're

391
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 working under now says we can't move home. Correct, right now. That's what I want to know.

392
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:24,000
 Is it recent or a long time? No, it's been a while. Okay.

393
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,760
 Commissioner Kirk? To some of those points I forgive you, including I don't know if there's

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 any cost to us to do this. The idea of this is if we have the opportunity where the state does pass

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 this and move it to November. Some of the benefits I see, larger turnout, more democracy in play,

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00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:49,520
 as the gentleman noted earlier, much greater percentage of people voting. And I very much

397
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 appreciate your service too. I've done that a bit myself but you're always going to have those type

398
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 of questions at all the elections. I mean also too that there is a bit of a cost savings to the

399
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 city if we're having elections all at one time instead of having them all at one time. There

400
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,960
 actually isn't because we have to pay for the May and for the November with the county. So there is,

401
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:13,440
 and then correct me if I'm wrong to the staff on that, but we're paying each time we have an

402
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 election. But for me the biggest thing is having more democracy, more people participating in the

403
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 process and I'll leave it at that. All right, do we have a motion? Okay, so we have a motion

404
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:39,840
 on the floor to not move forward with further discussion of moving municipal elections from

405
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:46,960
 May to November. All those in favor of not further discussing moving the elections, please raise your

406
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:56,560
 hand and say aye. Aye. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. All those who would

407
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:04,880
 like to vote or all those not in favor of not discussing moving municipal elections from May

408
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:10,320
 to November, please raise your hand and say aye. Ten, two, we will not be further discussing

409
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:17,840
 moving municipal elections from May to November. Item four, consider modifying the total years

410
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:26,160
 allowed for residents to serve on council. Do we have presentation? Yeah, just a bit of a setting

411
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:33,840
 the stage. The current charter stipulates three consecutive terms to one place, but you can serve

412
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:42,000
 consecutive terms in another place up to 12 years consecutively. And then once you've been on 12

413
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:50,800
 years consecutively, you would have to sit out one cycle, one annual, one year. So that's the current,

414
00:53:50,800 --> 00:54:00,800
 but you can, there's no, I know. So for example, council member and then mayor Watts, I believe,

415
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:07,360
 did six years as a counselor, six years as mayor, and then was forced to take one year off of council

416
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:14,160
 and then he returned. So that's kind of the maximal amount of council serving that you can do

417
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:20,800
 under the current setup. And he could have chosen to run again for his next term, but he did not.

418
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:27,920
 So he wasn't limited by that. Does it apply to districts versus at-large versus, as you said,

419
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:37,920
 six years? Yeah, so you can do three terms in one seat and then run three terms in another. So that's

420
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:44,480
 six years each, so that's 12. The 12th we have. Correct. It's mayor at-large or? Correct.

421
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:59,920
 Let me see that. Let me see that one year. Further questions for staff before we get to discussion?

422
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:08,240
 I'm sorry. So just the number of districts, one through six, those all count in the same. Sorry,

423
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:12,640
 I'm just clarifying Michelle's point. So doesn't matter if you're a single member, single,

424
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,840
 single network? No, at-large versus single district, that still counts as the same.

425
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,800
 And then mayors in other categories are just A or B. They're called ABC.

426
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:32,000
 Mayor and at-large are the same. But there's two possibilities. Right, right. Okay. So you could,

427
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:38,960
 for our team member, Amanda, you could run in a single member district, serve for six years,

428
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:44,320
 and then run in one of the at-large or run for mayor for another three consecutive terms for six

429
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:52,160
 years. It's just the maximum that you can serve continuously in any seat is 12 years, and then

430
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,800
 you have to sit out one year. Commissioner Kirkpatrick? But then to clarify, they can

431
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:03,040
 repeat the cycle. There's no maximum lifetimes, it's the maximum.

432
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,160
 Commissioner Montegor? So I would move that we have no further discussion on this matter

433
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:16,960
 in the future meeting. I think I personally, not for term limits, but I think this is a fine

434
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,240
 compromise to say that someone should cycle off. I think 12 years is definitely long enough to

435
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:28,320
 serve in any one capacity. I think we've seen that just because you can't end up a seat for

436
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:34,480
 a long time doesn't guarantee you that necessarily. But I also think that if you have popular support

437
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,880
 from the majority of Denton voters, then you should be able to serve, but you shouldn't be

438
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,840
 able to serve more than 12. I think you've got that right now. So I would move that we keep it

439
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,800
 just like it is, no further discussion. Do I hear a second? Second from Commissioner

440
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,680
 Ronski. Discussion of the motion? Just to clarify, it's not a 12-year cap,

441
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,320
 because they can repeat the cycle. Just to clarify that. It's not, it's just two points.

442
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:04,480
 Oh, I apologize. That's what I was asking earlier. That was 12, taking you off again, again, again.

443
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,240
 They could run into or they passed. They could.

444
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:19,280
 Further discussion? Commissioner Ronski? I was just going to comment. I was

445
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:24,240
 kind of thinking that just because you run doesn't mean you're going to get back in.

446
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:32,640
 So if during that 12 years and they're off for a year, and then they want to come back,

447
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:41,440
 they may not get it. So that would be accountable. But I agree with the motion as presented by Peter

448
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:52,400
 that this really doesn't need to go any further. All right. All those in favor of not further

449
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:58,160
 discussing, modifying the total years allowed for residents to serve on council, please raise

450
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:11,200
 your hands and say aye. Aye. Five, six, seven. All those not in favor of not discussing,

451
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:16,080
 modifying the total years allowed for residents to serve on council, please raise your hands.

452
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:25,120
 I believe that the structure of this is that there should be a consensus and at least eight

453
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,840
 committee members to move forward with the item. So I will hear a motion and the affirmative simply

454
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:40,640
 to hit that item. Is that rule applied for everything we vote on or just for will be pushed

455
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:47,440
 to council? Because we're just asking for more discussion. My understanding is that this is

456
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:53,440
 essentially kind of working under the same rules as the two minute pitch over at city council where

457
00:58:53,440 --> 00:59:01,440
 majority of city council would need to support it to be further discussed. So based off of the

458
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,560
 results of the prior vote, I don't think that we will achieve a majority to bring this towards

459
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:11,600
 further discussion. But the motion was not the affirmative for bringing it to further discussion.

460
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:18,240
 So I'm just gonna hear a motion to that regard so that we can fail that criteria. So this is

461
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,200
 different than other things that are on because this is a pre-discussion to have a discussion

462
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,880
 on like other things that we said we're going to bring back if they don't make or

463
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,480
 if we have this really affirmative and it dies, you know, talk about it again. Correct.

464
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:40,960
 So on that note, I'll motion that we consider or have a further discussion, consider

465
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:45,760
 I think modifying the total years allowed for residents to serve on council. Can I hear a second?

466
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,960
 Second. Second. All right. All those in favor of further discussion, please raise your right hand

467
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,800
 and say aye. All those opposed, raise your right hand and say nay. Motion fails. We will not have

468
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:05,520
 further discussion of that item. All right. That brings us to item five. Consider modifying

469
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:14,160
 the eligibility for holding elected office and appointments. I'll put this out there. I'll

470
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:20,960
 be really quick on it. What this was supposed to do is that if you could vote, if you took the time

471
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:27,120
 to go register to vote, get on the boards, six months. Thanks for looking at it here up here.

472
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:38,960
 That's my opinion. If you don't care to go register to vote in the city council person

473
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:48,720
 that appointed you can't vote for them. I have a question for staff. Can you give us any

474
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,480
 history as to there not being a voter registration requirement?

475
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:01,520
 I would have to do a little bit more research to be sure anecdotally as I understand it a

476
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:07,040
 number of years ago there were requirements that you be a registered voter in the city of Denton

477
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:13,280
 in order to serve on boards and commissions and that was a part of council's decision a

478
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:20,400
 number of years ago. They have to get more information on it to be exact but to remove

479
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:29,680
 some of the barriers for people serving on boards and commissions. Thank you. Any other

480
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,880
 questions on this before discussion? Questions prior to discussion? All right discussion.

481
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:43,680
 Yeah I think Terrell and Ray said well we have a ton of vacancies on all of our existing boards.

482
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:51,600
 I don't know that we can afford to be adding on extra term limits for all of our board members

483
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:57,440
 that would go beyond any one of our council members. I think chair I'm sorry chair commissioner

484
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:02,640
 I believe before pointed out that we want to make sure we get good qualified people on here too

485
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:08,080
 and experience is important on these boards and I worry about someone who does serve on

486
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:14,080
 there for however many terms doing a great job but they have to leave and then wait to come back

487
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,800
 and in that gap we lose all that collective experience. I think it's good to have fresh

488
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:24,160
 blood I think it's good to have fresh voices and I would have met I can't really imagine anyone

489
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:30,080
 who's currently sitting on any of our board is not registered to vote but I just hesitate to have any

490
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:35,520
 any further conversation about creating new barriers when we have so many people on the

491
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:47,280
 boards already. The current requirements are just that you'd be 18 years of age or older

492
01:02:47,280 --> 01:03:05,840
 and you live inside the city of Denver. Commissioner Ronsky. I believe that the requirement to be a registered voter was removed at the time that a resolution was passed.

493
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:24,720
 I would like to look up what year it was but at that point the suggestion was made the resolution was passed that non-U.S. citizens could be on committees and commissions.

494
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:32,800
 As a non-U.S. citizen you're not registered to vote. That's correct yeah that's that's my understanding of

495
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:38,400
 the history as well. I would add another population that this would eliminate from the pool of

496
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:44,960
 potential folks would be folks who are currently on like felony parole which you know felony is

497
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:51,440
 a scary term but you can get a felony for owning too much right or you might have gotten a felony

498
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:58,080
 for something and have served your time and now you're just on parole and maybe you know the civil

499
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:06,720
 services or the the boards that relate to issues of felons issues right you might want to serve on that

500
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:12,800
 because those are issues that directly affect you and of course we do have a large portion of our

501
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:19,280
 neighbors of our community that may not be able to register to vote because they are not naturalized

502
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:29,520
 citizens yet and so yeah i i would not give further discussion on that but anyone else all right

503
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:37,840
 commissioner uh but kind of in this idea of kind of getting our best and brightest and trying to

504
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,280
 recruit people of talent and skill this is a thing that we want to think about i work at the

505
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,680
 university more in texas and we have lots of non-citizens who are here and engaged in our

506
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:51,040
 community they're here teaching their own faculty they might have a real like level of expertise to

507
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,800
 bring to some of our boards and commissions but they can't push through both our churches and

508
01:04:54,800 --> 01:05:03,440
 all right um we are going or do we have a question i'll make a motion not to have any further

509
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:12,080
 discussion motion not to have any further discussion uh second second by commissioner patrick uh all

510
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:16,880
 those in favor of not having further discussion uh please raise your right hand say i

511
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:26,720
 one two four five six seven eight all those opposed to not having further discussion please

512
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:33,520
 raise your right hand say aye commissioner ramsey uh commissioner mccler uh two um so we will not

513
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,600
 have further discussion on that for my own sanity uh let's make motions in the affirmative

514
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:47,200
 even even if you uh you're doing so well want to not discuss something please say i do not want

515
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:52,400
 to discuss this but i'm motioning that we discuss it further and i will be voting no on that motion

516
01:05:52,400 --> 01:06:00,000
 just to make the motions here um that brings us to item six consider adding language regarding

517
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:05,440
 the increase in rates or fees on citizens or businesses um wait a minute we skipped the other

518
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:12,240
 two bullet points there were two points is part of this oh

519
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:19,200
 oh i thought we took that as a whole item i would that was my understanding as well

520
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:28,800
 um okay um no we can we can return to item five um i will say i did bring up the third bullet

521
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:35,600
 point in regards to the maximum two mile length of boards per year and then having to cycle off uh let's take

522
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:40,800
 the last two items as a vote together so the last two items being all residents all denham residents

523
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,200
 who will hold uh or is running for a publicly elected office shall be registered uh in the city

524
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:50,320
 of denham and any registered voters who may be appointed and serve on a maximum of two elected

525
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,560
 boards per year at the same time city council members term must wait the same length of time

526
01:06:54,560 --> 01:07:01,120
 so uh commissioner mcclar would you like to speak to this yes i mean i think if you're running for

527
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:06,640
 the elected office in denham texas you ought to be at least a registered voter here that that means

528
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:13,760
 that you don't have to be a citizen to be on our elected boards that are running you know in our

529
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:23,280
 city and the second one uh is that i feel you don't want a person it's kind of like someone

530
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:28,800
 what Peter was saying is to be there for a long period of time and they need to cycle off

531
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:34,880
 because if you get the same people on the boards all the time you don't get the same outcomes now

532
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:42,880
 they're gonna be good bad that's why we have term limits for city council commissioner melina for

533
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,640
 i have a really annoying technical question so it says little holder is running for public elected

534
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,680
 office we're appointed by council so we're not is that that's different this is like if you're

535
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:57,840
 running for any any city elected office so the city yeah so that is really taking care of the

536
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,480
 state election code in order to be like i just live in peace you have to be a resident uh for

537
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:07,760
 six months the state of texas has requirements on like what makes you eligible to vote uh i

538
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:16,160
 is being registered voters being eligible is that party in there somebody not a registered voters

539
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:24,080
 not a citizen run get elected in our city city city any elected office in the city

540
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:29,040
 how about the rest of the city

541
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:39,600
 one speaker at a time please one one speaker at a time one speaker at a time please

542
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:45,760
 i don't know there's a lot of elected offices in the city

543
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:47,680
 said city council

544
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:58,640
 so the only elected office we have is the city council and that's already cut

545
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:08,800
 all right um so since we've all clarified with our city attorney that that's already good we

546
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:19,760
 restrict that okay um i i would motion that we not or sorry i would motion that we have further

547
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:25,920
 discussion uh on the term limits for board information that's proposed by commissioner

548
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:31,280
 mcclure i'll be voting no on that i think cycling people out every two years for say planning and

549
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:38,560
 zoning which is highly technical board uh it's not going to be the best so uh do i hear a second

550
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:45,360
 second all right so the motion is in the affirmative for further discussion if you

551
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:49,440
 vote yes for this you're voting for further discussion if you vote no you're voting against

552
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:56,800
 the discussion all those in favor of further discussion of the two-year term limits uh to

553
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:01,520
 summarize uh as proposed by commissioner mcclure please raise your hand say aye

554
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:10,480
 i i don't i guess just further discussion further discussion on the side okay can we

555
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:19,520
 are you voting well no i'm trying to further further just discussion i have okay i apologize

556
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:27,680
 okay what we have are two things number one is serving on a maximum of two non-elective boards

557
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:38,320
 i believe we already have that is already in place i could be wrong so to take this further

558
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:46,080
 i would suggest taking this further in regard to being on the maximum of two non-elective boards

559
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:54,720
 the issue of the same time frame as a city council member's term each each board

560
01:10:54,720 --> 01:11:06,320
 has its own term and some of them are three years and some of them are five years and it's based on

561
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:16,400
 it's not based on the city council member's term so really the the meat of this one would be

562
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:28,800
 to serve discuss whether they could be on board and two boards and then after their respective

563
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:39,520
 committee term that they would have to leave out but one of the reasons that people don't

564
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:47,520
 necessarily wait out is because no one else is willing to volunteer to be on the board

565
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:57,600
 so motion again further discussion of term limits and maximum number of boards that you can serve

566
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:04,000
 on all those in favor please raise your right hand say aye to have more discussion on the side

567
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:14,720
 one two uh all those opposed please raise your hand seven uh we will not have further discussion

568
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:25,920
 on that item um items six can't we if we don't get a motion or a second to a motion then it

569
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:32,400
 just dies as well so if we don't get a motion to discuss it you see what i'm saying so like

570
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:37,280
 if we didn't have a second to that motion or we don't get a motion instead of making a motion

571
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:42,800
 and the negative if we just don't get a motion then nobody can hear us like that makes sense

572
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:49,040
 we can all sit here quietly for two exactly yeah but that might be easier too we can move forward

573
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:57,680
 all right item six consider adding language regarding the increase in rates or fees on

574
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:04,800
 citizens or businesses uh do we have no staff presentation on this uh would whoever's item

575
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:16,400
 this is like to speak to it i did it okay i did it so what what this is the city it bought two

576
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:25,120
 gas turbine power plants built up so we got two massive power plants and so in 21 we had a freeze

577
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:33,680
 and the gas got cut to those plants so we had to go out go out on the grid and buy electricity

578
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:40,720
 at a high price so what i understood when they raised our rates city range for electricity

579
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:48,240
 like in july 20 to 30 percent it was to retire those bonds that cost that debt that we have

580
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:56,160
 well my concern is once that debt is paid are they going to take away that fee to the citizens

581
01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:01,360
 are they going to leave it on there and what i'm asking them to do is once that debt's paid reduce

582
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:12,480
 it down for the citizens your amendment would be that if a bond is retired that the any increase

583
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:18,400
 of fees or anything to retire that debt needs to go away and not be continuing to stay on there

584
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:25,920
 so the city citizens have to pay commissioner malino for information so let's say winter from

585
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:31,520
 yuri we all got a surcharge like we the electricity customers were paying whatever the city incurred

586
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,600
 debt whenever they paid that debt off you're asking that like our rates would go back down

587
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:41,600
 i think they might raise the rates somewhere else yeah but we wouldn't be paying like a continual

588
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,000
 you know because if they keep doing that sooner or later you know it's kind of like when we get to

589
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:52,080
 the end point they say well we need money for something like what's going on does staff have

590
01:14:52,080 --> 01:15:03,680
 a comment here i would like to get more about i would i would like to discuss this further i think

591
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,040
 it's a really interesting idea and i think it's worthy of our time in discussion so i would make

592
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:16,560
 a motion that we put this on the agenda to consider motion by uh for the discussion

593
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:22,240
 all those in favor of further discussion please raise your right hands and say i

594
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:38,480
 all those opposed all right all right uh moving on to um item seven consider adding language

595
01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:44,880
 regarding the cost of new regulations uh commissioner mcclure again in other words if they pass something

596
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:50,720
 to the citizens they need to tell the citizens you know what it's going to cost

597
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:57,200
 because if we have a vote on it you don't know it's going to cost you whatever then they may not

598
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:05,280
 you might vote against it to clarify is this regulations in terms of like the city putting

599
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:10,800
 something on itself and the cost to the city or would this be like if we pass something that says

600
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:15,760
 businesses must do this or must do that we have to calculate the total cost of business you know

601
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:24,080
 anything that they come down and at least that gives the citizens a chance to say well that's

602
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:37,440
 too much it's just so having worked in the in the legislature a couple times they do something like

603
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:42,960
 this we do a fiscal note and they have something called budget council that is an army of attorneys

604
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:48,960
 and budget analysts about a couple hundred people that they'll call into municipalities and try to

605
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:54,800
 ascertain how much something's going to cost i think they do a great job but even the information

606
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:59,920
 that they provide is extremely limited and it's a lot just based on self-reporting like they're

607
01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:04,480
 not they don't have like economists and they're like running like econometric schemes like they're

608
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:12,960
 not hiring very frequent i think it was named to do like giant fiscal analyses i think the the idea

609
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:20,240
 itself in principle is really good but i'm really concerned that we would have to hire additional

610
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:27,040
 city staff or put extra work on our current city staff to do budget analysis that

611
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:33,840
 is really only being done at the congressional budget office in washington dc they can look at

612
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:38,640
 like how far out does this thing go to affect the entire economy so i'm just concerned about

613
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:44,480
 what what the cost would look like on the taxpayer whether or not we're going to see any kind of

614
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:50,800
 budget savings or if it's going to be offset by any increase that we're not already getting from

615
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:55,840
 our local news outlets or from concerned citizens who can crunch the numbers by their private

616
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:03,840
 experience i understand that if the citizens are not over this kind of cost they have to do this

617
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:13,680
 budget inside work where it's going to cost you a hundred dollars on office and the citizens will

618
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:19,600
 know i that's maybe that's too much yeah but it's moving back and they might not they're not passing

619
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:23,200
 yeah i'm just concerned with how i get that information in the first place

620
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:29,760
 uh commissioner melina for are there any you know like current examples or something like does the

621
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:35,360
 city mandate i don't know energy efficient lighting i i i'm having a record to wrap it around like i

622
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,200
 get to take on a big right i get a big picture you want to make sure that like private businesses are

623
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,440
 not like running a town because the city is passing regulation that's a million dollars i'm just

624
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:50,560
 smaller examples or i'm really like hands-on so like narrowing the staff from a big picture is

625
01:18:51,200 --> 01:19:04,720
 why the question do you mean okay there is something that has been discussed it's in the works

626
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:10,800
 not sure when it's going to formally come up in council but what i think that commissioner

627
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:19,280
 mcclure is referring to is what is a unfunded mandate if it's something that's done as a bond

628
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:30,160
 with the bond commission or group and recommended it to the council the council put it on the ballot

629
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:41,520
 the citizens vote for it so any expenditures to finance that bond to repay it would come out of

630
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:50,960
 being known you know and and expensed if somebody comes up with an unfunded mandate and the one i am

631
01:19:50,960 --> 01:20:00,240
 looking for right now is building a new city hall that was something that did not go through

632
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:11,680
 the bond committee it did not go on the ballot but yet there is discussion on that it doesn't mean

633
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:19,280
 that i'm against a new city hall but if it's an unfunded mandate it means where's the money

634
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:31,440
 your general fund for your expenses and your interest is coming from taxes the thing is like

635
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:42,080
 a 55 million dollar new library is supposed to come from getting out bonds so we therefore

636
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:50,160
 have something that's unfunded the expenses are there is it going to totally come out of the

637
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:57,040
 general fund and if it comes out of the general fund that's going to increase the city's yearly

638
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:04,880
 budget which is then going to be reflected on what millage which is what we call it okay

639
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:15,200
 but what your tax rate is based on 100 percent um you're not 100 the hundred dollar breakout

640
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:22,640
 of your home there so i think that people should have a little bit more

641
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:32,800
 input on these unfunded mandates and to that end taking it a little bit further within our

642
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:40,800
 discussion and utilizing some additional information from city staff thank you

643
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:46,880
 all right i think commissioner ross makes a great point i think that's more applicable to point nine

644
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:52,080
 which specifies unfunded mandates one seven which is the question of the regulations

645
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:57,120
 i would like to just hold a space for someone to potentially make a motion or not make a motion

646
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:02,640
 uh because i think we're having two different regulations versus unfunded mandate are both on

647
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:09,760
 the agenda yeah can i start my word i'm a little confused because i've i've only ever used the term

648
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:18,240
 unfunded mandate in the context of of like a state law coming down to the local and it is not there's

649
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:24,800
 no funding to implement that like when the state texas recently passed laws on school safety and

650
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:30,800
 said that there needs to be additional sros in our public schools there was not money attached to

651
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:37,600
 that it was a an edict and then they said find the money so that to me is what an unfunded mandate

652
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:45,120
 is i'm confused what we're talking about because this makes i understand commissioner mcclar's

653
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:52,560
 number seven right here as being about regulations but to me number nine would be the exact same

654
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:58,880
 thing i guess i don't understand number nine is what you're saying is unfunded is coming from

655
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:04,720
 the state or whatever is forcing it on to the state nobody said unfunded mandate like you're

656
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:09,920
 talking about exactly cost us a lot of money i think if the citizens know that

657
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:19,040
 that's what comes out of fiscal notes from protectors like to like they they provide those

658
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:23,440
 numbers on what they think it's going to cost or at least that they say that the cities are saying

659
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:29,120
 it's going to cost what i do think is so the citizens can look at the city commissioner

660
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:37,520
 just real briefly i mean i guess an example i'm still not sure that an example would be like every

661
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:44,400
 for any business to get a co they had to have fire suppression like spring instead of some other i

662
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:54,480
 guess then you would want some i'm not sure the regulation like that would be through or notified

663
01:23:54,480 --> 01:24:07,680
 such different do i hear any motion on this

664
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:20,960
 i make a motion that we take the item in regard to the city council vote if the city council

665
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:26,960
 votes to change or new regulations and that could come into also

666
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:42,560
 as well as item nine be taken up for further discussion at a future meeting

667
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,160
 you would your motion is that we hear both seven and nine

668
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:58,400
 correct we took this aspect in line okay i move that the second floor on your aspect number nine

669
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:05,360
 or seven rather as well as number nine be consolidated

670
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:21,840
 and taken to further discussion do i hear a second on that

671
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:28,560
 all right hearing no second uh that motion will not proceed do i hear any other motions on this item

672
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:37,120
 all right we will move on to item eight consider adding language that requires

673
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:41,120
 posting the amount if any of an adequate contribution to fund pension or retirement

674
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:45,920
 plans for city employees including fire and police time check we are at six fifty six

675
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:51,120
 all of you are discussing further discussion of the clerk this is great number eight is

676
01:25:51,120 --> 01:26:04,240
 lying to the city employees the city has to fund that every year and if you get an actuary that

677
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:11,920
 doesn't know what to do and they say okay you put this much money here you think we'll make eight

678
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:19,040
 percent on well you go down 20 and 30 years and only make two percent then you're going to the

679
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:24,640
 city is going to be a big Dallas guy in this trouble so we need to know i think a year to

680
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:34,480
 a year where they're at on that are you going to get down in the tax credit is going to get big no

681
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:39,440
 staff yeah just can't assistant to the city manager i just wanted to add that

682
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:45,440
 uh the city participates for its employees and a tmrs which is a statewide municipal retirement

683
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:52,720
 system um city employees make contribution other paychecks because match and uh actually exceeds

684
01:26:52,720 --> 01:27:08,720
 that and then we are guaranteed to turn five percent every year so are they adding more money

685
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:14,880
 to that because the five percent is not no i don't think that they had anything else for inflation

686
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:24,480
 um can i ask is this defined contribution or defined benefit uh retirement plan yeah i mean um

687
01:27:24,480 --> 01:27:30,160
 i i don't remember exactly if we have the how much flexibility we have i tell you that for mine i put

688
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:37,120
 in seven percent of my pay and the city puts in 14 percent and then it's guaranteed to grow at

689
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:43,200
 either whatever the market rate is and then uh if the market goes down or doesn't grow very quickly

690
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:49,840
 like it's guaranteed five percent return uh more questions for staff richard jones and it's managed

691
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:57,280
 by the team are i'm not a benefits expert commissioner manjiguera and the contributions from the city

692
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:05,200
 they're they're depending on how much y'all put in like there's right yeah it's it's based on your the

693
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:09,920
 wages and earnings so i put in seven percent of my wages and earnings and the city puts in

694
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:16,080
 14 percent of my wages so they really have an option under funding their obligation if you will

695
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:22,240
 so that so then we don't necessarily need this i i'm not you're saying

696
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:30,160
 yes sorry to to be clear you're not answering your position of expertise within the city

697
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:35,360
 you're answering it's somebody who just has one of these plans yep i am i am one of these plans

698
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:42,000
 enjoyers thank you thank you is that the same for the fire police they are on different pension

699
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:47,440
 systems so where are we at with them how does that work i don't know we can get some information on

700
01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:52,960
 that i i just don't want to get the city down 10 or 20 years from now we've got this

701
01:28:52,960 --> 01:29:00,640
 that was a big problem specifically i agree so i would like to motion that we have another

702
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:08,240
 discussion specifically narrowing to fire police pensions uh

703
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:26,160
 those in favor please raise your hand say aye all right all those opposed please say next

704
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:34,000
 all right uh moving on to uh item nine consider adding language that requires reporting the amount

705
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:40,240
 of unfunded the amount of any unfunded mandate incurred by the city with information regarding

706
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:45,600
 the name of the mandate and cost of the city to comply commission report this year why i came up

707
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:52,480
 with this it may not be something we want to do but if the state or somebody puts an unfunded

708
01:29:52,480 --> 01:29:59,040
 mandate on us at least the citizens will know and it just won't be the tax rolls be raised just to

709
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:04,720
 cover it up and go on i think as long as the citizens know the voters know and they've got

710
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:18,560
 to that point i think what we were talking about are coming into schools and i don't think there's

711
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:24,560
 anything to cost them

712
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:35,840
 so i i do think that since the people know

713
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:46,080
 commissioner for adding on to what kisha jones said that there have been as a result of that

714
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:51,280
 sro being required in cuts within the schools that i think are leaving parents scratching their

715
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:58,240
 heads and wondering like why does my school not have a library assistant anymore and part is

716
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:02,320
 because of that a shortage because other costs that were incurred through these other mandates

717
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:07,280
 i really like this proposal i was thinking but you know so this is why this is what the deal

718
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:16,080
 i could i could make the motion and say yes i would like to hear staff report on this and have

719
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:21,840
 our group consider it further discussion commissioner mandibora just a quick quick comment

720
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:29,280
 i will be supporting further discussion and i would love to hear from staff what is already

721
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:36,000
 being done like internally or like these would be the public as far as communicating how unfunded

722
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:43,200
 mandates from the state government affect our city and like how these conversations are happening

723
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:48,560
 and whether or not that information is because i have sat in on presentations with one presentation

724
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:52,640
 with the superintendent where he explained a lot of the things that were unfunded just in the school

725
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:56,800
 district uh these kind of presentations are happening with the city but i think that would

726
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:03,520
 all be very helpful education as well so i support further discussion just to reinforce that the

727
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:08,640
 disd is doing a committee on that which probably many of you or maybe some of you know about just

728
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:13,600
 happened last night but very good points because this information is out there per se but it's not

729
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:17,360
 out there to the level i think we would like to see the transparency is not deep

730
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:24,240
 i'll second second by commissioner mandibora my only concern would be that maybe there are some

731
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:29,920
 mandates that are like the cost of use and hard to calculate but i would like to also hear more

732
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:34,960
 information on this all those in favor of having further discussion i'm considering adding language

733
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:39,120
 that requires reporting the amount of any unfunded mandate incurred by the city regarding the name of

734
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:46,400
 the mandated cost of the city to comply all right all those opposed please raise your hand

735
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:55,280
 all right um that brings us to concluding items does the committee have any business to discuss

736
01:32:55,280 --> 01:33:05,280
 at this time that is birthdays anniversaries all right uh with no other business i will adjourn the

737
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:15,040
 meeting at seven oh three p.m we did it guys we were mostly on time congratulations