WEBVTT

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 >> Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission

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 meeting for Wednesday, September 11th, 2024.

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 With the quorum present, I will call us to order at 5.05 p.m.

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 For the record, let it show that Commissioner Padrone is absent at this time.

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 With our work session, our first item on the agenda is citizen comment on consent agenda.

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 Is there anyone wishing to speak on consent?

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 Okay.

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 We'll go ahead and move to clarification on tonight's agenda.

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 The first one being our minutes from August 28th.

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 Any questions for staff on that?

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 Okay.

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 How about on the consent agenda?

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 I did have a question, and she -- might as well -- yeah, I mean, you're the first one

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 on here.

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 Because it has to do with a couple on here, but it's more of a general question, if you

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 don't mind.

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 >> Yeah.

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 Absolutely.

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 >> So on this -- it has to just do with consistency, and when we have gas well in the vicinity

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 of a residential neighborhood.

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 >> Yes.

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 >> So on this plat for Glenwood Meadows, we don't have the asterisks on the lots.

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 We do have the note, I noticed, but we don't have the asterisks on the lots, and we don't

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 have a gas well vicinity map like we do in 3E.

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 So I'm trying to understand why that is, why we do it inconsistently like that.

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 >> Sure.

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 >> Can you help me with that?

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 >> So for this one, we do ask that they identify or note the plat -- the lots within the vicinity

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 of the gas well.

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 >> I saw it on the notes.

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 >> Sure, and they did identify them on the notes.

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 >> So we just don't have a -- this is how we should do it?

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 >> They are in addition to that required too.

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 We have a standard form that needs to be provided to individuals who may be purchasing lots

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 within those areas, and they are covering the bases with that.

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 I felt comfortable with the note and that it does meet the intent of the DDC.

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 >> And I'm not questioning you, I'm questioning the process and why we do it differently.

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 >> I was going to say we have no standard regarding that.

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 >> Okay.

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 That's what I wanted to know.

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 >> We have so many plots that are reviewed and so many reviewers.

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 We have checklists and we use the DDC to ensure notations are -- the required notations are

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 on the plat.

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 >> Okay.

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 >> But each reviewer might have a little bit of a different perspective on how it's noted

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 and just looking to see, okay, is it noted?

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 How is it done?

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 Are we able to confirm that, yes, it's complying with the ordinance requirement?

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 >> I thought a while back that we -- and maybe it just wasn't put into play.

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 I thought we talked about they should all have an asterisk on them.

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 But anyway, I wish they did, because it speaks a lot clearer, a lot of people don't read

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 notes.

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 I mean, hopefully they do when, you know, they're looking at this plat in better detail.

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 But, okay, that is for my question as to why they're different.

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 >> Great.

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 >> Thank you very much.

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 Any other questions on consent?

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 Okay.

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 Items for individual consideration is -- first one is 4AFP240032.

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 That is Erin.

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 Hello.

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 >> Hello.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

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 This is a final plat for the RYAL development edition.

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 They previously were requesting an extension request, their first extension, but they managed

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 to satisfy all the comments between when your packet went out and this.

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 So we are actually recommending approval tonight of this plot.

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 But I'll stand for any questions.

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 >> Did that actually come out in e-mail to us?

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 >> We did not send an e-mail, no.

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 >> Okay.

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 So we didn't see the -- so what was the change?

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 What is different than what we have in our backup NWINE?

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 >> All of the -- in the staff analysis, all of the conditions that they had not met, they

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 met all of those.

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 I can -- for the main presentation, I can detail those if you'd like.

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 But they just -- they met all of the criteria for plat approval.

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 >> Okay.

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 Questions on that?

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 >> Could I ask a follow-up question?

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 Did anything graphically change on the document?

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 >> No.

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 It was more labeling things and making sure like all -- maybe all easements are shown or

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 all -- one of the things they added was you can see these overhead electric markers, essentially.

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 It's just the zone that they need to work in or that they cannot develop in, they added

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 those because they weren't previously shown, and that's one of our checklist requirements

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 to add just mainly checklist things.

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 >> Okay.

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 Okay.

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 Okay.

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 But nothing's substantive.

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 >> No.

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 >> Okay.

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 >> Thank you.

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 Okay.

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 4B is FP240033.

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 >> Hello, Angie Manglaris, development review manager.

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 This is FP240033.

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 This is Stella Hills, phase 2A.

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 This is approximately located 1,500 feet south of East McKinney Street into the east of Laney

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 Circle.

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 This is a 21-acre tract of land.

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 The purpose of the final plat is to develop -- or to plat 85 single-family lots as well

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 as establish right-of-way and necessary easements.

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 This is part of the overall Stella Hills development, which is zoned residential 6.

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 At this time, the applicant has not met all the criteria for approval.

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 There's still some details to be met.

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 So staff is recommending denial.

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 However, staff has no objection to the requested extension, which could be granted to October

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 9th.

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 This would be their first extension request.

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 Happy to answer any questions you all may have.

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 >> Thank you, Angie.

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 Questions?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Last individual consideration item is FP240034, that is yours as well.

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 >> Yes.

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 This is Stella Hills, phase 2B.

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 This is approximately 15 acres.

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 It would establish 52 single-family lots and open space lot as well as associated rights

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 of way and easements necessary for the development of a single-family residential neighborhood.

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 Again, there are a few remaining comments.

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 Staff is recommending denial, but has no objection to the extension request, which could be granted

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 to October 9th and would also be their first request for this item.

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 Happy to answer any questions.

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 >> Thank you.

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 >> Okay.

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 We've got two public hearings tonight.

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 First being 5A PD240002.

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 Ashley is here for a brief presentation here in work session.

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 Hi.

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 >> Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Ashley Eckstead, associate planner.

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 This is PD242, Jefferson North Elm.

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 This is a request to rezone from a residential 2 zoning district to a planned development

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 with mixed-use neighborhood and public facilities-based zoning districts to facilitate the development

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 of a multi-family and park dedication.

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 This site is generally located on the northwest corner of North Elm Street and North Locust

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 Street.

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 The multi-family portion will include four buildings, approximately 54 feet tall, containing

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 450 dwelling units on 15.76 acres.

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 The park portion will be 10.2 acres and include tree preservation and a trail.

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 There is currently an existing farmhouse on the site that will be removed and an Evers

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 Memorial and educational area will be created in that location.

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 The existing zoning is R2 shown here and the future land use is neighborhood mixed-use.

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 Staff does recommend approval and I have a longer presentation for the public hearing

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 and happy to answer any questions.

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 >> Great.

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 Thank you.

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 What questions?

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 Well, Commissioner Villarreal.

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 >> Thank you, Chair.

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 Will staff be going over the potential historical nature of the Evers Farmhouse during the public

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 hearing?

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 >> I am going to discuss what the conclusions were -- what conclusions we came to on that,

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 which was that it had lost its historical integrity.

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 >> Got it.

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 Is that because there was too many renovations done?

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 >> Exactly.

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 Yes.

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 >> Okay.

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 And you'll be going over that?

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 >> Yes.

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 >> Okay.

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 >> Thank you.

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 Any other questions?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Next will be 5BZ240002, Aaron's item.

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 >> Okay.

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 This is Mockingbird Lane rezoning.

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 So this is approximately 2.6 acres that they are requesting to rezone from R2 to R4, generally

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 located south of Audre Lane and east of Mockingbird Lane, and this property is undeveloped and

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 has been undeveloped since roughly its annexation in 1960.

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 Staff is recommending approval tonight.

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 Here are the two zoning maps.

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 You can see here of what they're currently and what they're requesting, and I will stand

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 for any questions you have right now.

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 I'll have a longer presentation later tonight.

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 >> Questions?

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 My hope is that you all had a chance to look at past meetings.

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 This came before us three different times for a similar -- similar and not so similar

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 request.

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 So, yeah, it's interesting that it's here again.

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 Neighborhood meeting was not held, correct, for this?

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 >> Correct.

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 The applicant's not proposing any site plan right now.

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 They have no development plans.

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 So they chose not to have a neighborhood meeting, but they did meet directly with some of the

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 adjacent neighbors.

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 >> Okay.

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 Will they be here this evening?

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 >> They will be.

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 >> Okay.

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 Any questions?

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 Commissioner Villarreal?

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 >> Do you know, at least from your perspective, I don't know if you've had conversations

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 with them about this, but why did they decide not to do a public meeting considering the

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 contentious nature of previous P&Z meetings around this?

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 >> I did tell him about that.

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 I suggested to do a public meeting, and he's here tonight to speak to why he didn't feel

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 that was necessary.

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 I think because they don't have a site plan, it's a little difficult or there's less to

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 present with a public meeting if you don't have a site plan proposed already.

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 >> Gotcha.

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 Thank you.

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 I'll ask him during session.

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 >> And I assume he knows the history of what's been -- I mean, I know you weren't here, so

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 I know you have a long history with it, but --

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 >> I do not believe he's watched the previous meetings.

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 I could be wrong about that, but he's aware that this has gone before you before.

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 >> Okay.

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 Anything else?

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 Commissioner Thacker?

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 >> Thank you, Chair.

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 I'm looking in the backup appeal 1.1, and it says that there have not been significant

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 changes in the area to warrant a zoning change, only that this property is catching up with

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 rezoning in accordance to the surrounding residential areas.

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 >> I go back to kind of what Margie was saying, if there haven't been that many changes made,

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 then why are we discussing this for the fourth time?

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 >> So the property is undeveloped, and it has been since the '60s.

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 And so staff has received several requests for this rezoning in the past.

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 The applicant could speak to why they're requesting it now, I suppose.

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 And the changes in the area -- I do have this map to kind of show -- when it was initially

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 zoned, I mean, there hasn't been one significant change to warrant this, but you can kind of

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 see the development pattern here, and it is a bit splotchy in the area.

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 And so that's -- what you read in the backup is kind of explaining this, the splotchy development

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 pattern and how it's developed over time.

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 >> If I could add something.

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 So the applicant also has a one-year limitation that they have to satisfy.

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 So they've done that since the last action that was considered on the property, at least

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 by the Planning and Zoning Commission, was November of 2020.

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 So when we have cases, even if they were denied, they have to wait one year, or the exception

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 to the one-year requirement is if there was a significant change in conditions that would

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 warrant bringing the case back sooner than later.

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 >> And I believe this case in 20 -- let's see, it was 2019, then it didn't go to council,

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 then it came back to P&Z and was denied.

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 And then I think it went to council, and then it was remanded back to P&Z and denied, and

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 then it never did anything.

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 I think at that time they had a 20% opposition in the neighborhood, I think, from what I

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 remember.

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 And maybe that's why they never -- because they never took it back to council then after

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 the denial from P&Z.

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 Yeah, and that was -- and they did have a site plan.

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 It was an R4 request with, at that time we called them overlays, but basically it -- yeah,

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 that attached that particular site plan to that zoning request that was denied.

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 You know, my big issue with this piece of land is, you know, we're trying to make it

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 akin to R4, like that south street behind maybe what's across Mockingbird, but when

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 you go to this area and when you look at it, it just sits amongst all these larger parcels

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 that have been there, and it's an odd -- it is an odd lot.

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 There's no doubt about that.

00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:52.800
 You know, it's certainly changed ownership many times.

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 I know the current owner has had it on the market as well for over a year, so -- okay,

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 I don't have any other questions.

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 Anybody else?

00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:02.440
 Okay.

00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:03.440
 Thank you.

00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:13.480
 Okay, that is our agenda review for this evening, so that'll take us to our work session report,

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 which is 3A PZ 24184.

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 Receive a report.

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 Hold a discussion regarding tree preservation, landscaping, and protection, and preservation

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 of environmentally sensitive area requirements for new development.

00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:27.600
 Hi, Chrissy.

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.600
 Hi.

00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:44.600
 Hi, Chrissy Upton, Environmental Compliance Coordinator, and tonight I'm going to start

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 off this presentation, and then I'm going to hand it over to my coworkers.

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 So tonight we're going to be presenting on the environmentally sensitive areas and the

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 review of that tree preservation requirements, landscape and landscape code.

00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:00.840
 Is that better?

00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:01.840
 Yeah, somehow it's a little echoing.

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 I'm not sure why.

00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:03.840
 Okay.

00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.840
 Maybe -- oh, no, I just made it worse.

00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:09.840
 Okay.

00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:14.760
 And then Jimmy will have more fun because he's super tall.

00:16:14.760 --> 00:16:15.760
 Okay.

00:16:15.760 --> 00:16:16.760
 Is this better now?

00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:17.760
 Okay.

00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:18.760
 Yeah, I think so.

00:16:18.760 --> 00:16:19.760
 Thank you.

00:16:19.760 --> 00:16:25.640
 So transitioning into the environmentally sensitive areas presentation.

00:16:25.640 --> 00:16:29.720
 Some of you have seen some of this information before.

00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.320
 Just want to go back over it for everybody's sake.

00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:38.400
 So there are benefits that these environmentally sensitive areas offer to the community and

00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:46.760
 to landowners, including the stabilization of the banks and the streams, preventing those

00:16:46.760 --> 00:16:49.440
 streams from down cutting.

00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:59.360
 The economic values, including the sequestration and -- of pollutants of concern, and carbon

00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:05.080
 sequestration that especially trees offer.

00:17:05.080 --> 00:17:11.120
 There are four different environmentally sensitive areas identified in the development code.

00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:16.800
 So the development code is setting that standard into which ones we are regulating.

00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:20.960
 First of all is undeveloped flood plains or flood plains are generally in their natural

00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:21.960
 state.

00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:28.480
 We have riparian buffers or land that is immediately adjacent to the waterways, those vegetative

00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.360
 buffers.

00:17:30.360 --> 00:17:36.880
 Water-related habitats include water-related -- sorry, wetlands, Corps of Engineers and

00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:44.200
 Waters of the U.S. wetlands, and bottomland harvest forests, and then crust timbers uplands,

00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:51.600
 which are oak dominated savannas.

00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:58.840
 The -- historically, the city had adopted this official ESA map.

00:17:58.840 --> 00:18:05.760
 This was created in the early 2000s, and when it was adopted, it was more of a placeholder.

00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:11.840
 Here's in general where we believe that these environmentally sensitive areas may exist.

00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:17.760
 This information is updated by private landowners when those landowners are coming and seeking

00:18:17.760 --> 00:18:20.360
 development of their property.

00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:24.680
 That triggers for us to require this ESA field assessment.

00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:30.360
 Somebody walks the site and identifies -- confirms the presence, the location, and the extent

00:18:30.360 --> 00:18:35.680
 of these environmentally sensitive areas on that private property at that time.

00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:41.840
 You can find all of the information and the current status of this map on the interactive

00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:42.840
 map.

00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:47.800
 I'm going to introduce to you the development impact area at this time.

00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:54.040
 I'm going to insert here on this because I want to share with you how our development

00:18:54.040 --> 00:19:01.560
 impact area definition interacts with how our site plans are designed -- how it interplays

00:19:01.560 --> 00:19:04.720
 with the site plans in the environmentally sensitive areas.

00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:11.760
 So the development impact area states that any man-made changes or improvements are unimproved

00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:18.920
 to the unimproved real estate, including construction of alterations of that land, roads, parking,

00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:24.800
 grading, anything that essentially is a land disturbance goes into this development impact

00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:29.680
 area as it's defined.

00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.440
 So in this example, I have a site plan here that's showing you a development impact area

00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:43.040
 in the brownish color, and that bluish area is the environmentally sensitive area.

00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:53.880
 As you can see, this property owner has designed their site layout to avoid developments impacts

00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.400
 to the environmentally sensitive area.

00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.640
 So in general, we're applying this requirement to all land within the city -- Floodplain

00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:09.680
 and the ETJ -- and each one of those environmentally sensitive areas do have their own unique classifications

00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.400
 and protection requirements.

00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:19.320
 And I review each of these developments at the final plat as the final time that I'm

00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:25.400
 looking at it to confirm that the project is proposing a site plan that meets those

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.520
 criteria for approval.

00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:31.480
 I'm working with them throughout the life of the projects from the very beginning and

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:35.360
 talking to them about how to comply.

00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:44.040
 And there are instances where property owners identify for various reasons that they're

00:20:44.040 --> 00:20:48.200
 not going to be able to meet that criteria for approval.

00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:57.440
 They are seeking that flexible and discretionary approval for mitigation to offset for a deviation

00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:02.280
 from those protection and preservation requirements of environmentally sensitive areas.

00:21:02.280 --> 00:21:11.080
 This project type, the developer offers up a mitigation plan, and then it goes through

00:21:11.080 --> 00:21:18.280
 an approval process that is very similar to the zoning procedure, where there's two public

00:21:18.280 --> 00:21:22.520
 hearings, one at this body and one at the city council, where you're making a recommendation

00:21:22.520 --> 00:21:28.880
 to the city council, who is the final authority on approval of those environmental -- alternative

00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.520
 and environmentally sensitive area plans.

00:21:32.520 --> 00:21:38.560
 There is a criteria for approval for those type of projects, including to either restore

00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:46.400
 the functions or continue to offer some type of benefit that the disturbed, environmentally

00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.640
 sensitive area offered prior to that land disturbance.

00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:58.240
 And in this example we have here, the property owner, they identified that they would need

00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:04.600
 to make some encroachments in order to construct their outfalls to the center line of the channel,

00:22:04.600 --> 00:22:10.760
 and the mitigation plan is to establish native vegetation within those areas where they had

00:22:10.760 --> 00:22:12.800
 disturbed.

00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:21.360
 Lastly, just to let everybody know that there is a website and document that we put together

00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:22.360
 several years ago.

00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:24.120
 We called it ESA primer.

00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:32.040
 It's not a criteria manual, and it's not a standard, but it's rather just a guidance

00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:37.920
 document to provide information about all the complexities of the environmentally sensitive

00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.120
 area and our code and how to comply.

00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:44.320
 And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Jimmy Holtford.

00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:48.280
 Thank you.

00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:54.200
 Hopefully that still works.

00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.200
 All right.

00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.240
 So probably you all have never met me.

00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:58.240
 My name is Jimmy Holtford.

00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:03.140
 I'm one of the landscape planners I'll be presenting tonight, and my topic of discussion

00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:05.560
 is about tree preservation.

00:23:05.560 --> 00:23:10.920
 So there are two standards that we try to adhere to when new developments come in, specifically

00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.960
 when you see like a planned development or a specific use permit or SUP.

00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.320
 The minimum preservation that we're aiming for when development initially comes in is

00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:23.520
 30% of quality and heritage trees.

00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:30.360
 If they cannot meet that minimum preservation, they are allowed to drop down to 20% with

00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:35.400
 higher mitigation requirements for those quality and heritage trees.

00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:42.840
 There's also another preservation standard for secondary trees.

00:23:42.840 --> 00:23:47.400
 If they have just secondary trees on site, they can do a minimum preservation of 20%

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.560
 as well on that.

00:23:49.560 --> 00:23:55.360
 So tonight you'll have a couple of plants that will be presented that talk about mitigation

00:23:55.360 --> 00:23:57.040
 on those.

00:23:57.040 --> 00:24:03.520
 And so at the very end of a project, say it switches hands from one owner to another,

00:24:03.520 --> 00:24:08.920
 that future owner is going to be aware of that mitigation that was owed when they decided

00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:12.120
 to purchase the property.

00:24:12.120 --> 00:24:16.480
 So we'll start talking about tree definition types.

00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:22.120
 So the first one is heritage, and heritage are all quality trees with the DBH greater

00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:28.960
 than 18 inches, and any post oak trees that are six inches and greater.

00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:33.000
 So then that transitions into smaller trees, which are quality.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.160
 Those are healthy non-secondary trees, except post oaks, because they all fall within the

00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:39.160
 heritage.

00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:41.800
 They measure between six and 18 inches.

00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:47.640
 And then finally we have secondary trees, which are your healthy ash, your boat arks

00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:55.480
 or Osage orange, hackberries and cottonwood trees with the DBH of six inches or greater.

00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:57.440
 Then we have some non-protected trees.

00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:02.680
 Those are your trees, you go onto site, they're already dead or they're diseased from various

00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:06.180
 insects or maybe fungal issues.

00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:09.280
 Trees that could pose an imminent danger, maybe they got struck by lightning all of

00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:13.600
 a sudden, or maybe a windstorm came and they started leaning over.

00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:19.520
 And then you have your crepe murals, ornamental pears, which are typically Bradford pears.

00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:24.640
 Your mesquite and honey locusts, they would be non-protected unless they fall within a

00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.240
 preserved habitat or conservation easement.

00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:33.800
 And then any trees listed within Texas Department of Agriculture or TDAs, noxious and invasive

00:25:33.800 --> 00:25:35.080
 plant list.

00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:37.880
 Finally, we have landmark trees.

00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:42.920
 So this is actually a picture of one of our five landmark trees within the city.

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:46.400
 It's a 40 plus inch post oak.

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.480
 And landmark trees are just really large trees or trees that are designated within Texas

00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:57.880
 Big Tree Registry or that have some kind of historical significance within the city.

00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:05.200
 So when someone submits a tree preservation plan on a new development, they're going to

00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.800
 have to identify where the fencing is going to be installed around the trees.

00:26:08.800 --> 00:26:11.900
 So this is an example of how it should look.

00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:15.980
 If you don't see it like this, let us know.

00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.920
 But it should go all the way out to at least the drip line of the tree or critical root

00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:21.120
 zone.

00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:25.520
 And so you can see where the red is showing how far the drip line is of these two trees

00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:28.520
 that are being protected.

00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:32.040
 So tree replacement on a site.

00:26:32.040 --> 00:26:39.120
 Since they are having to remove trees, they are required to meet these minimum requirements.

00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:46.520
 So the ratio is start off for heritage quality and secondary is just showing how those ratios

00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:50.680
 are adjusted based on the different tree types.

00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:54.280
 And then you have your first ratio, which starts at the 30%.

00:26:54.280 --> 00:27:00.360
 And then if you drop down to 20%, you can see what the ratios are reduced to.

00:27:00.360 --> 00:27:05.560
 Now replacement totals are reduced to 50 and 40%.

00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:09.320
 50 is for residential, 40 is for non-residential.

00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:13.440
 And that's because the state requirements.

00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.080
 Then we have tree credits.

00:27:15.080 --> 00:27:19.080
 So again, you have all the different tree types, your heritage, your quality of secondary

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.320
 landmark.

00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:26.820
 And then asterisks next to secondary because it has specific requirements since it may

00:27:26.820 --> 00:27:32.240
 have to have additional requirements associated with that credit.

00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:39.800
 If there are no heritage quality trees on there, you may be restricted by getting credits

00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:40.800
 for those.

00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:45.600
 Then we also have cluster credits, which allows for additional preservation for trees that

00:27:45.600 --> 00:27:48.640
 are close together on a development.

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.720
 And then we give credits for street trees and all additional landscaping that is required

00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.840
 on a new development if their DBH is two inches or greater.

00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:08.280
 So this is an example of what the property boundary would look like on a site in red.

00:28:08.280 --> 00:28:11.920
 So this is the New Denton High School site.

00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.960
 And then in the hatched yellow area is showing where the DIA or development impact area,

00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:24.760
 I roughly drew on there showing how that doesn't always line up with the property boundary.

00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:33.400
 And it shows in the bottom how the DIA actually avoided the environmentally sensitive areas.

00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.840
 So we have goals for canopy coverage.

00:28:36.840 --> 00:28:39.760
 That's why we're doing all of the tree assessments.

00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:49.120
 So for 2020 Urban Forestry Master Plan, the goal for 2040 is to get to 40%.

00:28:49.120 --> 00:28:55.720
 So we get there by making sure we have diverse, healthy, and equitable canopy distribution

00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:01.300
 across the city, not just focusing on the east or the west side.

00:29:01.300 --> 00:29:06.380
 So tree canopy goals are achieved by two things.

00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:09.320
 One is preservation.

00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:13.680
 And second is making sure that on all new developments, they meet the landscape requirements

00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.320
 that we have, which includes the planting of trees.

00:29:17.320 --> 00:29:26.120
 And that leads into landscaping, which will be presented by Nellie.

00:29:26.120 --> 00:29:35.860
 Hi, everyone.

00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:37.360
 My name is Nellie.

00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:42.560
 I'm the other landscape planner, and I'll be going over the landscape requirements today.

00:29:42.560 --> 00:29:48.440
 So to start off, landscape requirements from multifamily and non-residential are required

00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:53.880
 to provide a total of at least 30 points from the following chart shown on the right, which

00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.400
 is our landscape area point system.

00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:01.640
 And just a quick summary, two elements are required from section A, and two elements

00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:07.900
 are also required from section B, and then the rest of the points can come from section

00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:14.820
 C. And in addition to those landscape point system, multifamily and non-residential are

00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:20.680
 required to meet the minimum landscape area and tree canopy percentage per zoning district,

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:22.960
 which is the chart shown on the right.

00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:28.120
 And I'll go over an example of how we exactly calculate those numbers.

00:30:28.120 --> 00:30:34.600
 So in this project, the zoning district was C, suburban corridor, and the minimum requirement

00:30:34.600 --> 00:30:38.520
 for landscape was 20% and tree canopy was 30%.

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:42.960
 And you'll see in highlight in yellow is the areas that we would calculate in square feet,

00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:48.000
 and take that against the development impact area square feet that is shown in blue.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.960
 And as you can see, they provided 35% of landscape area there.

00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:58.560
 And for tree canopy, the applicant provides a tree canopy calculation table where it is

00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:02.360
 based on the square footage on our approved landscape plan list.

00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:08.840
 And you'll see there that the applicant has provided 59% meeting the 30% tree canopy area

00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:11.160
 there.

00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.400
 We also provide city resources to developers as our landscape plan checklist, in addition

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.700
 to our approved plan list as well.

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:26.020
 So this is information public for the developers to create their landscape plans.

00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:30.020
 And then for landscaping for residential, they do meet different requirements than multifamily

00:31:30.020 --> 00:31:32.160
 and non-residential.

00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.200
 So these are the four minimums quickly to go over them.

00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.760
 All single-family duplex and townhome lots must contain a minimum of one large shade

00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:43.320
 tree per dwelling.

00:31:43.320 --> 00:31:47.440
 All triplex and fourplex lots must contain a minimum of one large shade tree.

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.480
 And at least 30% of the front yard shall be landscaped and 20% of the rear yard shall

00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:53.480
 be landscaped.

00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:58.880
 And with all the plantings that need to be installed, we do have standards for those

00:31:58.880 --> 00:31:59.880
 plantings.

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:04.480
 And so one of them is the 90% of plantings shall be from the approved landscape plan

00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.400
 list, which was shown as a city resource that we provide to developers.

00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:15.840
 If 20 or more trees are planted, no one species of trees may exceed 30% of that total new

00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:16.840
 trees.

00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:23.560
 One example for that is if there's 100 total trees to be planted on a site, 30 of those

00:32:23.560 --> 00:32:28.640
 can only be burr oaks, like they can't be more than another-- more to simple math right

00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.640
 there.

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.940
 And at least 50% of trees planted must be native, indigenous, or adapted, as indicated

00:32:34.940 --> 00:32:38.000
 on the plan list.

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:43.240
 And one more other requirement, we also require buffer requirements here.

00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:47.400
 So all developments are required to install a buffer, as specified in the table shown

00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.400
 on the right.

00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:53.920
 An example for that is if a multifamily is the developing use, you would go down where

00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:59.000
 developing use is, following the row right there, and if it's being built adjacent to

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:04.880
 a commercial and institutional, you'll see that the minimum is 20 points required and

00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.000
 a minimum width of 10 feet.

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.280
 And in the following slide, I'll show the buffer requirements point chart.

00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:16.160
 So this is how the developers create their buffer elements from here.

00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:20.080
 And you'll see in the buffer chart, there's different points that they can meet to meet

00:33:20.080 --> 00:33:21.080
 that requirement.

00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:26.040
 And the other notion for this is that the entire buffer area shall be landscaped with

00:33:26.040 --> 00:33:28.440
 ground cover other than turf grass.

00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.200
 So that's a good point there.

00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.620
 And then lastly, we have street trees.

00:33:33.620 --> 00:33:38.360
 And for street trees, we required a couple of things there, one of them being that they

00:33:38.360 --> 00:33:43.040
 should be within the street right away or within 10 feet of the right away from there.

00:33:43.040 --> 00:33:48.680
 At least one street tree is required for every 30 feet of street frontage.

00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:54.720
 And trees shall not be planted further apart than 50 feet and no closer than 25 feet apart.

00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.840
 We want to make sure these trees grow as spaciously as they can.

00:34:00.840 --> 00:34:05.600
 And if the requirements can't be met, we do offer an alternative landscape plan, which

00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:11.480
 allows a reduction in the count, configuration, or require landscape materials when the site

00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.560
 or development are contradicting there.

00:34:14.560 --> 00:34:22.520
 So some items that can be towards this is natural conditions, unique lot size or configuration,

00:34:22.520 --> 00:34:27.160
 the presence of existing utility or easements that they just can't meet.

00:34:27.160 --> 00:34:29.560
 So we offer this option for them to go through.

00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:36.160
 And then lastly, on those approved landscape plans, we do complete landscape final inspections.

00:34:36.160 --> 00:34:42.320
 So before issuing the COs, we require an inspection, as you can see here.

00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.880
 This is from one of our projects that we had done recently at the ERA apartments.

00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:49.120
 The first inspection, we denied it as there was dead trees there and dead shrubs.

00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:51.720
 And we want to make sure that it looks beautiful here.

00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:56.080
 And in the second inspection, you'll see they've replanted all new species.

00:34:56.080 --> 00:34:58.520
 And it looks wonderful and great and thriving now.

00:34:58.520 --> 00:35:02.800
 So this is how we're going to make it look beautiful here.

00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.660
 And any questions for me?

00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:08.660
 Commissioner Cole.

00:35:08.660 --> 00:35:09.660
 Thank you, Chair.

00:35:09.660 --> 00:35:14.700
 Going back to one of the earlier slides where you had the stratification of trees, you had

00:35:14.700 --> 00:35:17.080
 the heritage trees, you had the secondary trees.

00:35:17.080 --> 00:35:22.800
 And then you had a single line that was mesquite and honey locust.

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.640
 And then the line beneath that, you had invasive trees.

00:35:27.640 --> 00:35:33.880
 So why are mesquite and honey locusts in a different, I mean, those should be under the

00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:38.720
 lowest stratification of trees because they are invasive here.

00:35:38.720 --> 00:35:42.120
 Any rancher in this town is going to tell you those are no bueno.

00:35:42.120 --> 00:35:44.840
 I mean, they're just not.

00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:49.880
 So they're considered not protected unless they fall within the preserved habitat of

00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.760
 a conservation or conservation easement.

00:35:52.760 --> 00:36:01.240
 So if they're within those areas, say you have a conservation easement that is supposed

00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:07.660
 to be undisturbed, we don't want people going in there essentially.

00:36:07.660 --> 00:36:11.440
 So we're trying to keep that habitat as is.

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:18.460
 So that's why it's designated for those trees to remain in that undisturbed habitat area.

00:36:18.460 --> 00:36:22.560
 But everything else would be considered nonprotected.

00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:30.160
 You know, I may come from a different perspective as far as mesquite and honey locusts.

00:36:30.160 --> 00:36:34.640
 I mean, if you let them be, they're going to take over.

00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:41.920
 I mean, we went through this song and dance about six years ago.

00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:47.040
 And there were some on the commission that wanted to protect mesquite and honey locust.

00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:53.880
 And I remember Richard Kanoni brought a honey locust limb, and it looked like a medieval

00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:03.440
 weapon with all the-- I mean, if you let mesquite and honey locust stay, they're going to take

00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:04.440
 over.

00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.600
 And you're not going to have a single piece.

00:37:07.600 --> 00:37:14.940
 I'm glad they're not in the protected deal, but letting them be, that's a whole different

00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:17.900
 ball game.

00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:20.840
 Any rancher around here is going to tell you, because that's what you fight.

00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:23.440
 You're fighting the battle of mesquite and honey locust.

00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:27.960
 So you should-- I mean, it doesn't matter if it's in the Easter or whatever.

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:33.800
 You should be able to-- because you're going to lose your property to those two particular

00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:45.080
 trees, if a honey locust is a tree, but why not just take them out?

00:37:45.080 --> 00:37:51.000
 I can add a little color if you like to that, if you want.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:56.680
 So in this example here where I was showing, this is the development impact areas in the

00:37:56.680 --> 00:38:01.360
 brown, and the blue would be the riparian buffer, right?

00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.960
 So we're trying to protect, ultimately, the waterway itself.

00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.000
 That's what we're really focused on.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:17.000
 And so let's say in this example, there were honey locusts and mesquites that are dominating

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:18.740
 the space.

00:38:18.740 --> 00:38:23.720
 At this time, our code doesn't require-- so all it requires is that you set that land

00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:24.720
 aside.

00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:28.160
 It doesn't require that you tackle invasive species.

00:38:28.160 --> 00:38:30.480
 Private would be another big issue out there.

00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.400
 There's no difference between private and these two.

00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.400
 Totally agree.

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:40.240
 So if a landowner wishes to tackle some of those things and wishes to eradicate some

00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:46.080
 of those invasive species, I'm all about providing that support and providing the information

00:38:46.080 --> 00:38:52.880
 that's needed in order to provide that support to them to help get it there and restore the

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:54.000
 land properly.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.120
 You can't just go out and just tear out all the vegetation because you're going to create

00:38:59.120 --> 00:39:00.760
 other problems.

00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:07.080
 So we do want to provide some guidance, and we want to help to make that happen in a way

00:39:07.080 --> 00:39:10.680
 that would result in the best environment possible.

00:39:10.680 --> 00:39:12.200
 I totally understand that.

00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:17.960
 And if you went back to where those mesquites and honey locusts were, if you went back 20-something

00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.760
 years, they're not there.

00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:20.760
 Right.

00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:21.760
 Right.

00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:29.440
 I mean, every landowner in this county is fighting the mesquite and honey locust war

00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:30.440
 daily.

00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:31.440
 Right.

00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:32.440
 That's what ranchers are doing.

00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:36.060
 They're clearing this stuff out 24/7.

00:39:36.060 --> 00:39:40.560
 And whether it's part of a ... We can call it an easter.

00:39:40.560 --> 00:39:42.200
 We can call it ... It's a creek.

00:39:42.200 --> 00:39:43.200
 Yes.

00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:44.200
 Yes.

00:39:44.200 --> 00:39:51.080
 It's a creek fundamentally, and it is the only way our wildlife gets to move up and

00:39:51.080 --> 00:39:56.280
 down out of development freely, is that creek.

00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:04.120
 And we should be able to clear out mesquite and honey locusts without even going to anybody

00:40:04.120 --> 00:40:05.120
 or doing anything.

00:40:05.120 --> 00:40:06.120
 Yeah.

00:40:06.120 --> 00:40:10.600
 I mean, it should be just by right.

00:40:10.600 --> 00:40:17.360
 Unfortunately, sometimes we do see that when property owners are trying to tackle this,

00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:19.240
 they are causing damage.

00:40:19.240 --> 00:40:25.920
 So that's where staff is just trying to provide the right guidance to that property owner

00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.760
 that we aren't resulting in.

00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:36.280
 Example, sometimes a landowner will clear everything, and what comes back is Johnson

00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:37.280
 grass.

00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.280
 Absolutely.

00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:39.280
 And that's what we're trying to avoid.

00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:46.840
 And so we're trying to just help in a partnership with the landowner to understand why and how.

00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:50.520
 And you can bail Johnson grass and feed your livestock off of it.

00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:52.600
 That's just ... Yeah.

00:40:52.600 --> 00:40:53.600
 Yes.

00:40:53.600 --> 00:40:54.600
 Right.

00:40:54.600 --> 00:40:55.600
 Any other questions?

00:40:55.600 --> 00:40:56.600
 Yep.

00:40:56.600 --> 00:40:57.600
 Commissioner Prout.

00:40:57.600 --> 00:40:58.600
 Thank you, Chair.

00:40:58.600 --> 00:41:06.960
 I'll go in order of the presentation.

00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:19.000
 My recollection of the timeline of the DDC and then the wildlife corridor plan and that

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.520
 sort of thing is roughly in that order, right?

00:41:21.520 --> 00:41:28.880
 As far as the inclusion ... The wildlife corridor map was added to the comp plan after the 2019

00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:34.520
 DDC and these ESA declarations were instantiated, is that correct?

00:41:34.520 --> 00:41:35.520
 Okay.

00:41:35.520 --> 00:41:39.200
 So you're looking for the timeline of things and ... Okay.

00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:49.800
 So the ESA code was added to the DDC in 2020, sorry, 2002, sorry, I got my numbers mixed

00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.120
 up, in 2002.

00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:55.620
 And that was a big update that happened in 2002.

00:41:55.620 --> 00:41:58.600
 Everything was pretty much kept the same.

00:41:58.600 --> 00:42:04.760
 Some modifications were made to the ESA code back in, I believe it was 2018, 2017, 2018,

00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:06.560
 2018 timeframe.

00:42:06.560 --> 00:42:15.320
 And then, I'm not sure when the comp plan was last updated, are you aware, Tina?

00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:16.320
 March of 2022.

00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.320
 Okay.

00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:23.780
 And so the code update in 2019 didn't make any changes to the ESA code.

00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:33.400
 So then the comp plan update added a request to identify these wildlife corridors.

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:41.560
 Map identified an estimation of where wildlife corridors might be occurring.

00:42:41.560 --> 00:42:45.920
 And essentially, what we're doing is just following where we think wildlife might go.

00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:52.600
 And we've created that map, but no code or other supporting documentation has come with

00:42:52.600 --> 00:42:53.600
 that map.

00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:54.600
 Okay.

00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:55.600
 No, that helps.

00:42:55.600 --> 00:42:56.600
 Thank you.

00:42:56.600 --> 00:43:06.840
 So perhaps as a lay environmental person, not coming steeped with knowledge, do we have

00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:14.120
 ways, and I guess maybe it's the alt ESA is the way, but if an applicant, say for instance,

00:43:14.120 --> 00:43:20.960
 a hypothetical/example, right, in this example you have up here, the ESA certainly narrows

00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:25.120
 down toward the south, right?

00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:31.800
 If it were along a wildlife corridor and after it went further south, it widened out again,

00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:32.800
 right?

00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:38.160
 Would there be benefits to doing restoration to connect those better?

00:43:38.160 --> 00:43:40.440
 How do we try to encourage that sort of thing?

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:41.440
 Does that make sense?

00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:42.440
 Yeah.

00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:49.080
 And I actually kind of blends your question with his question and the why of protecting

00:43:49.080 --> 00:43:58.760
 this vegetation and why staff gives input on when you're going to clear your land, not

00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:04.680
 for ag purposes, but for other purposes that are non-ag, seeking a clearing grade permit

00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:07.920
 and then walking through with a property owner.

00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.640
 How could you clear some of these invasive plants and issues?

00:44:12.640 --> 00:44:22.160
 So then the end result is that we're continuing to provide both protection of the waterway

00:44:22.160 --> 00:44:26.040
 and provide that habitat and the continuation of habitat.

00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:32.240
 And the way that the researchers have explained it to us is that wildlife is traversing from

00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:38.480
 one high quality habitat to the other and those corridors are helping just provide that

00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:42.880
 transportation between the higher quality habitats.

00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:43.880
 Okay.

00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:44.880
 Thank you.

00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:53.080
 And then hopefully I won't offend anybody, but I've heard some in the community that

00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:59.920
 are skeptical of the alternate ESA plan process.

00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:06.320
 Some of that I think is perhaps because it sounds similar to the older alternate development

00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.800
 plan process that we used to have.

00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:19.760
 And sometimes it's met with opinions that, oh, well, this must be worse rather than better.

00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:29.920
 Can you speak to, like, does staff always have a higher bar for improving those ESAs

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:33.700
 with an alt ESA than it would with a standard ESA?

00:45:33.700 --> 00:45:34.700
 Does that make sense?

00:45:34.700 --> 00:45:39.000
 Yeah, yeah, I understand where you're going with it.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.080
 So we do have the criteria for approval.

00:45:42.080 --> 00:45:46.800
 I've summarized this in the most simple terms possible, but you can go to the development

00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:51.640
 code and read specifically all the criteria for approval.

00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:56.160
 Not every development meets those criteria, every single one of those criteria for approval

00:45:56.160 --> 00:46:03.240
 and not all projects are the same because not all requests are the same.

00:46:03.240 --> 00:46:12.240
 There's such a variety of ways that the developers both seeking your requests, but also seeking

00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:15.560
 that deviation that started the request, right?

00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:19.000
 So sorry, I went backwards on that thought.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:28.240
 But essentially what I'm trying to say is that what I do on my end when these projects

00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:34.400
 start is we're identifying those deviations, then we're working with that developer to

00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:42.680
 try to find the best possible outcome for the city because we're looking for, again,

00:46:42.680 --> 00:46:49.380
 what is that benefit that the ESAs are offering to the community as a whole and how can we

00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:58.520
 ensure that we're getting either equitable or something that would be exchangeable for

00:46:58.520 --> 00:47:02.200
 the deviation from the protection requirements that are in place.

00:47:02.200 --> 00:47:03.280
 Okay, thank you.

00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:08.880
 And now just a couple, make sure my mind is calibrated questions factually.

00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:17.520
 On the, earlier on you had a chart about the monetary benefits of ESAs and there was one

00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:19.520
 that said avoided runoff.

00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:26.680
 That seems like a very low number to me because I know how much drainage infrastructure costs.

00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:34.960
 Can you speak to what that avoided runoff bucket includes as far as the but for argument?

00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:35.960
 Which one?

00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:37.840
 Just the bottom pie chart.

00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.640
 The bottom type, oh.

00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:45.480
 You know, I read these papers back in 2019.

00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:53.280
 I haven't read them since, so honestly I do not remember, but also keep in mind that,

00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:58.360
 you know, these are economic values that I actually haven't gone back to look at in quite

00:47:58.360 --> 00:47:59.360
 a while.

00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:03.080
 If there's new numbers out there, I'm sure there's some really great research at this

00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:04.080
 time.

00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:08.000
 We were just pulling this together to kind of help explain, you know, what we were trying

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.640
 to talk about in the primer.

00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:11.200
 Okay, thank you.

00:48:11.200 --> 00:48:26.640
 In the next, sorry, just a quick question on the, I think perhaps, and I don't want

00:48:26.640 --> 00:48:31.400
 to speak out of turn, but one of the reasons this came before us is when we're looking

00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:36.240
 at that development impact area map, if you want to pull up that, I think it was the Denton

00:48:36.240 --> 00:48:40.400
 High School, right, map.

00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:45.540
 I think one of the questions was, if you have a development, ignoring the fact that it's

00:48:45.540 --> 00:48:52.280
 this high school for now, that has a smaller impact area like this does than the total

00:48:52.280 --> 00:49:03.240
 land area, is that land owner, you know, and say the majority, if not all of the 30% preserved

00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:07.720
 trees are not in the impact area, right?

00:49:07.720 --> 00:49:13.880
 Is that land owner then allowed to subdivide, you know, within the lot size requirements

00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:22.280
 and that sort of thing later, and then develop the previously unimpacted area and preserve

00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:25.440
 only 30% of that 30%?

00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:26.720
 Does that make sense?

00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:29.640
 Am I explaining that correctly?

00:49:29.640 --> 00:49:31.480
 30% of the 30%.

00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:37.640
 So if you start in time A, and you develop the high school, and you save 30% of the trees,

00:49:37.640 --> 00:49:38.640
 right?

00:49:38.640 --> 00:49:39.640
 Within the DIA?

00:49:39.640 --> 00:49:43.520
 Oh, okay, maybe that's my misconception.

00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:47.400
 So in this map...

00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:48.800
 The property in red?

00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:49.800
 Yeah.

00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:50.800
 Okay.

00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:58.160
 In the property in red, would the trees preserved outside of the DIA contribute to the 30% tree

00:49:58.160 --> 00:49:59.680
 preservation requirement?

00:49:59.680 --> 00:50:00.680
 Not within the...

00:50:00.680 --> 00:50:01.680
 No.

00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:02.680
 Okay.

00:50:02.680 --> 00:50:03.680
 They don't fall within the DIA.

00:50:03.680 --> 00:50:10.360
 So, the preservation only accounts for the area within the yellow.

00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:11.360
 Got it.

00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:16.680
 So, say someone wants to say that ESA goes away in the future, and there are trees there,

00:50:16.680 --> 00:50:22.320
 then they have to figure out how to preserve 30% of those trees within the property that's

00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.840
 outside of the DIA.

00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:26.200
 Okay.

00:50:26.200 --> 00:50:27.200
 Thank you.

00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:28.200
 So it's not 30 of 30.

00:50:28.200 --> 00:50:29.200
 Right.

00:50:29.200 --> 00:50:30.200
 It's just 30.

00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:31.200
 Okay.

00:50:31.200 --> 00:50:33.800
 Can I just interrupt you for a minute?

00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:34.800
 Yeah, please do.

00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.480
 Yeah, just to my brain.

00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:45.960
 So, dealing with the DIA is what you're dealing with when you're talking about tree preservation

00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:47.800
 and it has to fall within the DIA.

00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:48.800
 That's correct.

00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:57.800
 So, then the question was, so if that ESA went away and that area was going to get developed,

00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:01.000
 then it's a new look then?

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:02.000
 That's correct.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:06.680
 They are only going to be focused on developing of that portion of the site, so they would

00:51:06.680 --> 00:51:12.640
 draw their DIA showing that portion, and then they have to figure out a way to save 30%.

00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:13.640
 Of that?

00:51:13.640 --> 00:51:14.640
 Of that.

00:51:14.640 --> 00:51:15.640
 That wasn't impacted in the first place?

00:51:15.640 --> 00:51:16.640
 That's correct.

00:51:16.640 --> 00:51:17.640
 Okay.

00:51:17.640 --> 00:51:18.640
 Sorry, Eric.

00:51:18.640 --> 00:51:19.640
 Yeah, thank you.

00:51:19.640 --> 00:51:28.280
 And then, if you want to go forward to the replacement slide ratio, I was just confused

00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:33.620
 by the four-inch colon one tree, what is that nomenclature?

00:51:33.620 --> 00:51:40.280
 So you have one tree that you're actually wanting to remove that's considered secondary.

00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:44.640
 Regardless of what the DVH or diameter breast height is of that tree, you have to replace

00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:49.480
 it with a four-inch caliber of trees.

00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:50.480
 Okay.

00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:55.040
 Well, like one four-inch tree per one secondary tree removed?

00:51:55.040 --> 00:52:00.040
 Well, our replacement requirements is a minimum of two-inch caliber.

00:52:00.040 --> 00:52:02.000
 So you could replace with two.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:10.640
 Say you want to remove a 16-inch secondary tree, our requirements are you could replace

00:52:10.640 --> 00:52:14.080
 with two two-inch caliber trees.

00:52:14.080 --> 00:52:15.080
 Okay.

00:52:15.080 --> 00:52:17.360
 Got it.

00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:22.540
 So regardless of the size of the secondary tree you're removing, you only have to replace

00:52:22.540 --> 00:52:25.640
 it with a total of four inches DVH.

00:52:25.640 --> 00:52:26.640
 Four inches total.

00:52:26.640 --> 00:52:27.640
 That's correct.

00:52:27.640 --> 00:52:28.640
 Got it.

00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:29.640
 Okay.

00:52:29.640 --> 00:52:34.240
 I think that answers all of that.

00:52:34.240 --> 00:52:45.520
 And then last but not least, I've always had a question about the tree canopy calculation.

00:52:45.520 --> 00:52:52.640
 At what state of growth of the tree is that assumed?

00:52:52.640 --> 00:52:56.000
 So that is assumed a mature canopy for those trees.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:02.680
 And on the proof plant list, it says on the left side, mature size canopy, that states

00:53:02.680 --> 00:53:05.200
 the large and the square feet of each tree species.

00:53:05.200 --> 00:53:06.200
 Okay.

00:53:06.200 --> 00:53:07.200
 Thank you.

00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:08.200
 Of course.

00:53:08.200 --> 00:53:09.200
 That's all.

00:53:09.200 --> 00:53:10.200
 Thank you.

00:53:10.200 --> 00:53:11.200
 Sure.

00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:12.200
 Other questions?

00:53:12.200 --> 00:53:15.800
 I'm just curious related to, do we still have a tree fund?

00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:16.800
 No.

00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:23.700
 Sorry, y'all.

00:53:23.700 --> 00:53:24.880
 The answer is yes.

00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:25.880
 We still do.

00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:28.680
 Do we still have people like contributing to it?

00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:30.240
 Is that still an option?

00:53:30.240 --> 00:53:31.240
 That is an option.

00:53:31.240 --> 00:53:34.640
 And yes, we have had recent projects actually contribute to it.

00:53:34.640 --> 00:53:35.640
 Okay.

00:53:35.640 --> 00:53:38.160
 What are we doing with the tree fund?

00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:43.600
 Now it's a question that would be deferred to Haywood Morgan, because he's the one who

00:53:43.600 --> 00:53:50.480
 handles the mitigation, unless Hayley has something different to say.

00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:54.920
 Well this has been, we've kind of discussed this before.

00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:57.840
 The man who could have answered that question perfectly left the room, unfortunately.

00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.800
 Gary was here earlier.

00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:03.280
 My understanding is parks, they have an ordinance that limits them to certain things that they

00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:04.280
 can do with that money.

00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:08.040
 And I believe it has to be for tree replacement projects on city property.

00:54:08.040 --> 00:54:12.560
 So it could be right-of-way trees for streets that we maintain or trees within parks.

00:54:12.560 --> 00:54:16.320
 I believe it could also be used for like purchase of land if the intent of the land was preserving

00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:17.880
 the trees that are on it.

00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:18.880
 Okay.

00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:21.560
 So there's all parameters that are attached to the fund.

00:54:21.560 --> 00:54:27.000
 Do we have regular workings of using the tree fund?

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.920
 That I'm not sure of, but we can certainly find out and get that information for you.

00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:31.920
 Okay.

00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:35.880
 Yeah, I'm just wondering how often, and maybe you have the answer, maybe you have the answer.

00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.920
 How often are people opting for that?

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.600
 So because state law requires that we give credit for trees planted as long as they meet

00:54:42.600 --> 00:54:46.960
 that minimum size, a fair number of developments can offset their mitigation that's owed with

00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.640
 the plantings that they're required to do for landscaping.

00:54:49.640 --> 00:54:53.360
 Some of them, if they have extra room on site, will opt to even do additional tree plantings

00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:56.120
 beyond that just so they don't pay into the tree fund.

00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:59.720
 But I don't have an estimate, but I would say a fair number of projects do end up with

00:54:59.720 --> 00:55:03.960
 some remaining balance that gets contributed into the tree fund that they can't plant on

00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:04.960
 site.

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.480
 It probably sounds like we need a work session on tree funds.

00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:09.280
 I'll write that in.

00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:12.000
 Thank you.

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:13.000
 Other questions?

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:14.000
 Yeah.

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.000
 Go ahead.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:21.880
 It's more of a comment, I guess, concerning the tree fund.

00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:25.600
 If my imagination is not true, please ignore it.

00:55:25.600 --> 00:55:34.360
 But I wonder whether allowing or encouraging development projects to provide off-site plantings

00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:41.560
 in nearby neighborhoods so that people can see the benefit of that tree mitigation money

00:55:41.560 --> 00:55:49.920
 coincident with the project, as opposed to four years later when Parks has the capacity

00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.260
 to go do some plantings.

00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:59.040
 I wonder if that would help people weigh the good with the bad with projects that come

00:55:59.040 --> 00:56:03.000
 through.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.880
 I do have one more question, probably yours, because we touched on it a little bit, because

00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:10.720
 I assume this has to do with what I put on the matrix of this work session.

00:56:10.720 --> 00:56:19.440
 We're counting it into the subdividing of commercial lots.

00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:28.640
 Pick a commercial lot in your brain of what we have in the city.

00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:38.740
 Do we get better tree preservation if we develop that all together as one, and you're dealing

00:56:38.740 --> 00:56:49.080
 with that development impact there as one, versus if we have a commercial plot and we're

00:56:49.080 --> 00:56:53.440
 carving it out and subdividing it?

00:56:53.440 --> 00:57:02.080
 I was going to say, I think it probably depends on the type of development situation that

00:57:02.080 --> 00:57:07.000
 it is and what we're dealing with, with the property.

00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:12.160
 And the buffer requirements.

00:57:12.160 --> 00:57:17.640
 We're very careful to watch where the development impact area is, where the tree preservation

00:57:17.640 --> 00:57:18.640
 is going to be.

00:57:18.640 --> 00:57:23.320
 As Jimmy said, if you're within the development impact area, we're trying to encourage people

00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:24.920
 to preserve it 30%.

00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:29.960
 They can drop it down to 20% provided they do the mitigation, as he explained.

00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.440
 But if you have a phase development, and I develop the area over on the right, and that's

00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:38.280
 my development impact area, and I don't touch the area on the left, and then I come in and

00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.640
 I develop the area on the left, and that's where I'm drawing my development impact area,

00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:47.320
 then we're evaluating the trees there.

00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:54.840
 If somebody tried to develop an area where we had already identified trees that are supposed

00:57:54.840 --> 00:58:00.080
 to be preserved, then that's where the notes on the plat come in to help us with ensuring

00:58:00.080 --> 00:58:04.920
 that those trees are protected so that subsequent property owners understand that that grove

00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:06.840
 of trees is protected.

00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:12.680
 So if subsequent development was happening on the site, then we would note where those

00:58:12.680 --> 00:58:18.000
 trees are that are being preserved, and then again, do the math calculations, but it still

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:23.880
 comes out, to Jimmy's point earlier, it's still hopefully at 30% of tree preservation,

00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:28.520
 but they do have that ability to be at that 20%, but then again, we're mitigating that

00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:29.520
 delta.

00:58:29.520 --> 00:58:34.360
 So to their points earlier, a lot of times what we're finding is because state law allows

00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:40.320
 for trees planted to be calculated towards that mitigation, then we're getting the trees

00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:42.240
 added back on the site.

00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:43.580
 I don't know if you have anything else to add.

00:58:43.580 --> 00:58:48.280
 I'm just going to add to it, so in your example of like if it's a multi-lot commercial development

00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:52.960
 like say a razor wrench, bad example because they predate the tree code, but if something

00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:59.240
 like that were to happen today, we do our best to encourage developers to look at their

00:58:59.240 --> 00:59:03.760
 site comprehensively, do the tree survey up front, and account for that preservation with

00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:06.760
 all of the intended lots on there.

00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:10.040
 We do on occasion have people that insist, "No, I just want to worry about phase one,"

00:59:10.040 --> 00:59:15.000
 then they end up saddling a later phase with more difficult conditions because the trees

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:16.000
 weren't looked at comprehensively.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.720
 But we do our best to do that, and to Tina's point, that's the purpose of the Platte note

00:59:19.720 --> 00:59:25.000
 so that we know in the future which lots contain the preserved trees so that we can always

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:28.120
 hold them accountable to those original conditions that we documented.

00:59:28.120 --> 00:59:33.160
 And in the end, if you do the math and work it out, once we know what the total is on

00:59:33.160 --> 00:59:38.200
 site at the beginning of the project, the minimum 20% number is always going to be the

00:59:38.200 --> 00:59:41.520
 same regardless of how they work that out because we can always go back to that original

00:59:41.520 --> 00:59:47.120
 and say, "No, your 20% of the original 100 inches is always 20 inches," no matter which

00:59:47.120 --> 00:59:51.320
 lots those trees land on within the development and how those might get subdivided over time.

00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:52.320
 Okay.

00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:57.800
 Yeah, and that does help because that was going to be my question if you do try to ask

00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:58.800
 them to look at the entire...

00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.960
 We do our best to encourage the good behavior where we can.

01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:02.960
 I can see that.

01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:03.960
 Yeah.

01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:04.960
 Thank you.

01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:05.960
 Anybody else?

01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:06.960
 Yeah.

01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:07.960
 Go ahead.

01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:08.960
 Yeah.

01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:14.340
 I think, as you can tell, our tree preservation requirements, they're complex.

01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:19.040
 Our landscaping a little bit easier for being able to implement and count the points right.

01:00:19.040 --> 01:00:25.200
 But one of the things that our team does an excellent job with, with the development community,

01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:30.280
 especially in that first pre-application conference that we have with the development community,

01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:34.700
 we are bringing to their attention our tree preservation requirements and we're...

01:00:34.700 --> 01:00:39.840
 As well as our ESA requirements, we're also having conversations with them regarding if

01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:43.960
 properties are shown on the land preservation plan map and what that means for them, right?

01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:47.760
 So we're very proactive on the front end.

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:52.280
 We try to encourage the development community to look at our tree preservation ordinance

01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:58.240
 requirements holistically, get that under control on the front end of the project, because

01:00:58.240 --> 01:01:02.280
 if they think that they can defer all of the...

01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:06.320
 Trying to figure out tree preservation on the back end, that's where they run into problems.

01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:11.060
 So we are very proactive in our education efforts with the development community and

01:01:11.060 --> 01:01:15.920
 in that regard, because we understand the complexity of our ordinance.

01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:20.680
 We know that our ordinance requirements are more restrictive than many other communities

01:01:20.680 --> 01:01:24.120
 that they've probably worked within, and we know where the challenges are.

01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:31.460
 So we're very fortunate that we have the teams that we do that are subject matter experts

01:01:31.460 --> 01:01:35.360
 in their field and being able to communicate to the development community.

01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:37.000
 Here's what our requirements are.

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.540
 Here are some effective ways for you to be able to achieve.

01:01:39.540 --> 01:01:42.720
 Here's where we've seen success on some other properties.

01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:47.200
 These successful examples might actually be a good thing for your property that you might

01:01:47.200 --> 01:01:48.200
 wanna explore.

01:01:48.200 --> 01:01:53.280
 So we, again, I can't emphasize enough on how much of the education aspect that we do

01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:55.480
 throughout the development review process.

01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:59.960
 And then I believe it was Jimmy who touched on this is one of the things that we do is

01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:05.980
 part of that review is a lot of times people think I'm gonna come in, I get my plan approved.

01:02:05.980 --> 01:02:06.980
 I'm done with that.

01:02:06.980 --> 01:02:07.980
 I move on to the next step.

01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:11.840
 I get that set of plans approved, check that box and I go on to the next step and get that

01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:13.580
 set of plans approved.

01:02:13.580 --> 01:02:17.840
 When it comes to the tree preservation plan, one of the things that we do is we keep that

01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:24.000
 plan status open throughout basically the duration of the review process because we

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:29.380
 realize as tweaks get made to the zoning compliance plan and as adjustments get made to the civil

01:02:29.380 --> 01:02:35.600
 engineering plans that there potentially could be some impacts to the tree preservation aspect.

01:02:35.600 --> 01:02:39.740
 So we're trying to keep that tree preservation plan as a living document, no pun intended,

01:02:39.740 --> 01:02:43.720
 but a living document through that review process, if you will, because of the complexity

01:02:43.720 --> 01:02:49.120
 of our tree preservation ordinance and to continue to ensure that the preservation requirements

01:02:49.120 --> 01:02:50.120
 are being met.

01:02:50.120 --> 01:02:51.120
 - Thank you.

01:02:51.120 --> 01:02:52.120
 Commissioner Brewer.

01:02:52.120 --> 01:02:53.120
 - Thank you, Chair.

01:02:53.120 --> 01:02:59.320
 I do have one additional question which wasn't really touched on in the presentation.

01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:03.440
 So if we need to delay this, let me know.

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:10.200
 A couple of times there've been concerns in the community when a property that might be

01:03:10.200 --> 01:03:17.520
 a very old residential property that has a residential use, but it might be on a large

01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:25.600
 strangely shaped lot that could be redeveloped in the future changes ownership and then many

01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:36.180
 trees are removed because of the ability that state law allows in my understanding to remove

01:03:36.180 --> 01:03:42.040
 trees if it's a single family home use on a property, right?

01:03:42.040 --> 01:03:47.800
 And the concerns I've heard is that when that happens, it looks like a way to get an end

01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:53.600
 run around the preservation requirements, does that make sense?

01:03:53.600 --> 01:04:04.400
 - I've seen that and I just, my question would be, have we carefully considered whether the

01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:09.920
 requirements that we have do as good of a job as we can at trying to prevent that given

01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:13.000
 the limitations that we have legally?

01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.480
 - You know, that's a great question.

01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:21.240
 So the challenge with state law is one, we have to follow it, right?

01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:26.920
 And it's very favorable towards property owners and it has specific requirements in there

01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:29.440
 when it comes to addressing trees.

01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:42.400
 So it is when we ensure that we follow state law requirements and our ordinance, some might

01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:48.320
 think that that's a workaround to the code, but if we know that they have plans for development,

01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:52.200
 we try to get in front of that and I guess Haley, I don't know if you have anything else

01:04:52.200 --> 01:04:57.840
 to add on that front or if I summarize that correctly, okay, so.

01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:04.720
 - Very good, thank you all for the presentation, it was great, yeah, very informative, much

01:05:04.720 --> 01:05:05.720
 appreciated.

01:05:05.720 --> 01:05:10.840
 Okay, with that, I'll go ahead and adjourn us at 6.10 PM and we will reconvene in council

01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:15.480
 chambers for our regular meeting at 6.30.

01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:24.080
 - Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting

01:05:24.080 --> 01:05:28.360
 for Wednesday, September 11th, 2024.

01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:34.480
 With the quorum present, I will call us to order at 6.38 PM, let the record show that

01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:37.480
 Commissioner Pedrone is absent tonight.

01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:42.480
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the US and Texas Flags.

01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:51.480
 - I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for

01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:58.480
 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:09.480
 - Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and

01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:11.320
 indivisible.

01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:16.240
 - Thank you, first item for our consideration tonight is the approval of our minutes for

01:06:16.240 --> 01:06:19.440
 August 28th meeting.

01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:20.440
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:21.440
 - Move approval.

01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:22.440
 - Commissioner Cole.

01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:23.440
 - Second.

01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:27.400
 - Okay, we've got a first and a second to approve our minutes from August 28th, 2024.

01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:28.400
 Any discussion?

01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:37.760
 Okay, let's vote please.

01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:41.160
 That motion carries five zero.

01:06:41.160 --> 01:06:46.280
 That will take us to our consent agenda this evening.

01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:47.280
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:48.280
 - Move approval.

01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:49.280
 - Commissioner Thaggard.

01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:50.280
 - Second.

01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:55.080
 - We've got a first and a second for approval of the consent agenda discussion.

01:06:55.080 --> 01:07:01.960
 Let's vote please.

01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:03.400
 That motion carries five zero.

01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:06.380
 That will take us to our items for individual consideration.

01:07:06.380 --> 01:07:13.640
 This being 4A, FP 240032 and Erin is here for presentation.

01:07:13.640 --> 01:07:14.640
 Hi.

01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:15.640
 - Hello.

01:07:15.640 --> 01:07:26.600
 - Good evening, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

01:07:26.600 --> 01:07:29.840
 This is FP 24-0032.

01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:36.800
 This is the Ryle Development Corporation or addition final plat and this was previously

01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:43.080
 in your packet for their first extension request.

01:07:43.080 --> 01:07:46.920
 Since the packet went out, they were able to satisfy all of their outstanding comments.

01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:53.520
 They were primarily labeling, showing easements, checklist items.

01:07:53.520 --> 01:07:59.080
 The face of the plat did not change too much and this was also emailed out to you between

01:07:59.080 --> 01:08:02.320
 work session and now to review.

01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:04.840
 We are recommending approval but I'll stand for any questions.

01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:06.080
 - Thanks, Erin.

01:08:06.080 --> 01:08:07.080
 Any questions?

01:08:07.080 --> 01:08:08.080
 Okay.

01:08:08.080 --> 01:08:10.180
 I don't see any.

01:08:10.180 --> 01:08:13.240
 Thank you so much.

01:08:13.240 --> 01:08:19.880
 Chair can entertain a motion or discussion at this time.

01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:20.880
 Commissioner Pruitt.

01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:24.840
 - I'll move approval of the updated plat that was just sent to us.

01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:25.840
 - Great.

01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:26.840
 Commissioner Thaggard.

01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:27.840
 - Second.

01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:29.480
 - Second for approval.

01:08:29.480 --> 01:08:30.480
 Any discussion?

01:08:30.480 --> 01:08:31.480
 Okay.

01:08:31.480 --> 01:08:44.180
 Let's vote, please.

01:08:44.180 --> 01:08:45.960
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:51.160
 That will take us to 4-B, FP 24-0033.

01:08:51.160 --> 01:08:52.720
 Angie is here for presentation.

01:08:52.720 --> 01:08:53.720
 Hello.

01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:56.200
 - Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.

01:08:56.200 --> 01:08:58.480
 Angie Manglars, Development Review Manager.

01:08:58.480 --> 01:09:01.840
 This is a final plat for Estella Hills, Phase 2A.

01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:07.440
 It is approximately a 21-acre site located approximately 1,500 feet south of East McKinney

01:09:07.440 --> 01:09:09.560
 into the east of Laney Circle.

01:09:09.560 --> 01:09:14.960
 The purpose of this final plat is to establish 85 single-family residential lots as well

01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:19.600
 as to establish streets and easements necessary for the development of a single-family residential

01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:20.600
 neighborhood.

01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:25.360
 It is part of the overall Estella Hills development, which is zoned Residential 6.

01:09:25.360 --> 01:09:29.360
 At this time, the proposed plat does not meet our criteria for approval.

01:09:29.360 --> 01:09:30.600
 Staff is recommending denial.

01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:34.920
 However, staff has no objection to the requested extension to a date certain of October 9th.

01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:37.680
 This will be their first extension request for this phase.

01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.640
 Happy to answer any questions you all may have.

01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:40.640
 - Great.

01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:41.640
 Thank you, Angie.

01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:43.040
 Do not see any questions.

01:09:43.040 --> 01:09:44.040
 Thank you.

01:09:44.040 --> 01:09:45.040
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:09:45.040 --> 01:09:49.360
 - Move approval of the extension request to a date certain of October 9th, 2024.

01:09:49.360 --> 01:09:50.360
 - Great.

01:09:50.360 --> 01:09:51.360
 Commissioner Thaggard.

01:09:51.360 --> 01:09:52.360
 - Second.

01:09:52.360 --> 01:09:59.800
 - Second to grant the extension request to a date certain of October 9th, 2024.

01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:08.600
 Seeing no discussion, let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:10.320
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:10:10.320 --> 01:10:15.120
 That will take us to 4C, FP 240034.

01:10:15.120 --> 01:10:16.880
 Angie here again for presentation.

01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:18.720
 - Thank you, Chair.

01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:20.960
 Angie Manglars, Development Review Manager.

01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:23.740
 This is the final plat for Stella Hills, phase 2B.

01:10:23.740 --> 01:10:26.120
 This is a approximately 15-acre site.

01:10:26.120 --> 01:10:30.400
 It is situated just south of East McKinney Street to the east of Laney Circle.

01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:34.560
 The purpose of this phase of the final plat is to establish 52 single-family residential

01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:39.260
 lots, one open-space lot, as well as associated rights of way and easements necessary for

01:10:39.260 --> 01:10:42.400
 development of a single-family residential neighborhood.

01:10:42.400 --> 01:10:45.240
 Staff is recommending denial as there are still some comments to be addressed.

01:10:45.240 --> 01:10:49.200
 However, has no objection to the requested extension, which could be granted to October

01:10:49.200 --> 01:10:50.200
 9th.

01:10:50.200 --> 01:10:52.240
 Commissioner, any questions you all may have?

01:10:52.240 --> 01:10:53.240
 - Thanks, Angie.

01:10:53.240 --> 01:10:55.160
 I do not have any questions.

01:10:55.160 --> 01:11:00.280
 Thank you so much.

01:11:00.280 --> 01:11:01.280
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:11:01.280 --> 01:11:06.520
 - I move approval of the extension request to a date certain of October 9th, 2024.

01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:07.520
 - Commissioner Thaggard.

01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:08.520
 - Second.

01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:11.200
 - We've got a first and a second to grant the extension request to a date certain of

01:11:11.200 --> 01:11:14.560
 October 9th, 2024.

01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.160
 Discussion?

01:11:16.160 --> 01:11:19.160
 Let's vote, please.

01:11:19.160 --> 01:11:23.880
 - That motion carries 5-0.

01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:30.920
 That will take us to our public hearings for tonight, our first being 5-A, PD240002.

01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:34.800
 I will go ahead and open the public hearing, and Ashley is here for presentation.

01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:35.800
 Hello.

01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:41.360
 - Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Ashley Eckstead, Associate Planner.

01:11:41.360 --> 01:11:45.600
 This is PD242, Jefferson North Elm.

01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:49.800
 This is a request to rezone from a residential two-zoning district to a planned development

01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:54.520
 with mixed-use neighborhood and public facilities-based zoning districts to facilitate the development

01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:58.400
 of 450 multifamily dwellings and park dedication.

01:11:58.400 --> 01:12:02.960
 The existing zoning is R2, shown on the map on the left, and the future land use is neighborhood

01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:06.280
 mixed-use, shown on the map on the right.

01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:11.360
 Just to do a general overview of the proposed site, there will be two sub-districts, sub-district

01:12:11.360 --> 01:12:15.400
 A, which will have an MN-based zoning, and that will be the multifamily use.

01:12:15.400 --> 01:12:21.520
 That will be 15.76 acres, and then sub-district B will have the PF-based zoning and the park

01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:24.440
 dedication, and that will be 10.2 acres.

01:12:24.440 --> 01:12:31.840
 The overall tree canopy will be over 47%, landscape area 61%, open space at 41%, and

01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:35.160
 they are currently showing 52% tree preservation.

01:12:35.160 --> 01:12:41.080
 The PD does allow for a minimum 40% tree preservation to allow for any improvements that are finalized

01:12:41.080 --> 01:12:45.360
 within the park, but the intent is to not remove any additional trees.

01:12:45.360 --> 01:12:49.040
 The multifamily buildings will be clustered on the east side of the property.

01:12:49.040 --> 01:12:55.600
 As you can see, the extent of the existing trees are on the west property.

01:12:55.600 --> 01:13:00.400
 To go over the development plan for sub-district A, which is the MN base in the multifamily

01:13:00.400 --> 01:13:05.920
 units, there will be 450 residences within four buildings with an approximately 45-foot

01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:06.920
 height.

01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.640
 Those are outlined here on the screen in red.

01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:12.200
 They are mostly situated along Elm and Locust.

01:13:12.200 --> 01:13:14.400
 There is one building internal to the site.

01:13:14.400 --> 01:13:20.400
 There will be 765 vehicle parking spaces and 40 bicycle parking spaces.

01:13:20.400 --> 01:13:24.560
 There is internal pedestrian paths and bike lanes throughout the site, including three

01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:29.760
 individual entrances into the park, and those are circled on the plan in blue.

01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:34.920
 There's also several connections to the perimeter street sidewalk, which they will also be constructing,

01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:40.400
 and they will be a 10-foot wide side pass along North Locust and North Elm Street.

01:13:40.400 --> 01:13:43.520
 There will be two entrances outlined here in green.

01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:48.520
 The one on Elm will be right in, right out, and the entrance off of Locust will have a

01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:49.920
 left turn lane installed.

01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:55.760
 They'll also be dedicating 55 feet of right-of-way on their portion, which will involve a second

01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:58.920
 through lane southbound.

01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:03.080
 Amenities within the multifamily development are clubhouse, outdoor pool, trail, and outdoor

01:14:03.080 --> 01:14:05.040
 seating.

01:14:05.040 --> 01:14:10.760
 The landscaping plan for Sub-District A, they will have 39% landscape area and 43% tree

01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:12.240
 canopy cover.

01:14:12.240 --> 01:14:16.200
 There is detention pond landscaping, which is outlined on the plan in green, and that

01:14:16.200 --> 01:14:22.360
 includes trees that are suited to that environment as well as a pond mix of native grasses.

01:14:22.360 --> 01:14:26.480
 They'll also have street trees placed in the right-of-way between the side path and the

01:14:26.480 --> 01:14:29.760
 street pavement, and those are outlined here on the plan in red.

01:14:29.760 --> 01:14:34.040
 There was one location along Elm where existing utilities prevented the placement of street

01:14:34.040 --> 01:14:37.960
 trees, and those have been relocated to other areas of the site.

01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:43.240
 They also have parking lot landscaping, end caps, medians, and islands, and some of those

01:14:43.240 --> 01:14:45.640
 are outlined here on the plan in yellow.

01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:50.500
 Additionally, they'll have landscape burns in the 20-foot public utility easement that's

01:14:50.500 --> 01:14:55.580
 required along text-dot roadways, and there's also a butterfly garden, which is outlined

01:14:55.580 --> 01:14:59.600
 on the plan in blue.

01:14:59.600 --> 01:15:02.020
 To go over the elevations, this is one of the buildings.

01:15:02.020 --> 01:15:05.520
 This is the building that's at the intersection of Locust and Elm.

01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:11.560
 As discussed, there will be four stories, approximately 54 feet tall, and some of them

01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:16.020
 will have garages, as shown on the plan here.

01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:22.560
 The park dedication, Sub-District B, this will have the PF base zoning and 10.2 acres.

01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:28.700
 The overall landscape area for this Sub-District is 94%, and tree canopy, 52%.

01:15:28.700 --> 01:15:33.160
 There will be several trails throughout the park, as well as the tree preservation.

01:15:33.160 --> 01:15:36.960
 There is currently an existing house on this site.

01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:42.160
 At the beginning stages of review of this project, keeping the home was considered.

01:15:42.160 --> 01:15:46.000
 However, staff has walked the property with the applicant and determined that it would

01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:49.880
 be financially infeasible for the city to bring the house up to the current standards

01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:51.280
 for public use.

01:15:51.280 --> 01:15:55.760
 Additionally, there's been several changes over the years in addition to the house, and

01:15:55.760 --> 01:15:58.160
 the house no longer has historical integrity.

01:15:58.160 --> 01:16:02.680
 A letter was included in the backup from the original owners of this home that detailed

01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:08.320
 all those changes, such as moving doors, moving windows, addition of a second story, and an

01:16:08.320 --> 01:16:11.640
 addition of additional rooms.

01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.800
 This plan is currently conceptual, and this will be finalized with the park development

01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:16.800
 agreement.

01:16:16.800 --> 01:16:21.800
 That park development agreement will go to the Parks Board and City Council for approval.

01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:28.440
 The developer is willing to do additional public engagement for the park improvements,

01:16:28.440 --> 01:16:33.040
 and they actually have already begun that at their last neighborhood meeting.

01:16:33.040 --> 01:16:39.060
 The parking will be at Evers Park, which is on the opposite side of Windsor.

01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:43.080
 There has been discussions to install a hawk signal across Windsor, which is outlined on

01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:45.600
 the plan here in blue.

01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:49.440
 There's also an existing trail along Evers Park, and that trail would continue through

01:16:49.440 --> 01:16:53.120
 this property.

01:16:53.120 --> 01:16:55.280
 This does meet the criteria for approval.

01:16:55.280 --> 01:16:58.640
 It would allow for the development of the property with land uses consistent with the

01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:01.200
 neighborhood mixed use future land use.

01:17:01.200 --> 01:17:05.640
 It also minimizes adverse environmental impacts by dedicating a park and exceeding the minimum

01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:10.360
 tree preservation requirements, and it also provides a greater level of community amenities

01:17:10.360 --> 01:17:14.680
 and connectivity than would otherwise be required.

01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:19.400
 As stated, the future land use is neighborhood mixed use, and this applies to areas where

01:17:19.400 --> 01:17:23.680
 the predominant use is residential, and also a diverse mix of housing types and densities

01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:25.360
 may be accommodated.

01:17:25.360 --> 01:17:29.280
 These areas should also raise a standard of design to increase connectivity and mobility

01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:32.660
 options and create a sense of place within the neighborhood.

01:17:32.660 --> 01:17:36.840
 There are other policies and goals of the comprehensive plan that this development would

01:17:36.840 --> 01:17:37.840
 achieve.

01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:43.080
 It will be 50% affordable and 50% market rate, which meets the comprehensive plan goals of

01:17:43.080 --> 01:17:46.960
 developing a housing stock that meets the needs of all of our residents and expanding

01:17:46.960 --> 01:17:50.160
 the availability of affordable housing choices.

01:17:50.160 --> 01:17:55.100
 Other goals within the comp plans are encouraging more dense development, coordinating the acquisition

01:17:55.100 --> 01:18:00.080
 of parks with goals of mobility and environmental conservation objectives, and ensuring the

01:18:00.080 --> 01:18:04.000
 protection of Denton's tree canopy.

01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:09.320
 There are competing interests within the comprehensive plan on this project.

01:18:09.320 --> 01:18:13.280
 The comprehensive plan calls for land and tree preservation, and then also development

01:18:13.280 --> 01:18:16.000
 scale to fit in with the surrounding area.

01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:20.240
 The density and scale are concentrated on the eastern portion of this property and clustered

01:18:20.240 --> 01:18:25.560
 to achieve that land and tree preservation with a smaller development footprint.

01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:28.800
 Those building heights and scale could be considered out of character with the surrounding

01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:30.120
 existing development.

01:18:30.120 --> 01:18:36.760
 However, a larger development footprint would come at a cost of less land and tree preservation.

01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:40.760
 The preferred land preservation and wildlife corridor map is shown here, and it's just

01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:44.880
 noted that this property is not identified on either of those maps.

01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:50.240
 Additionally, I've included the tree preservation plan here to show the quantity of trees that

01:18:50.240 --> 01:18:54.080
 are being protected on this property.

01:18:54.080 --> 01:18:58.240
 Public outreach was done, an ad was posted in the newspaper and on the website, and signs

01:18:58.240 --> 01:18:59.700
 were posted on the property.

01:18:59.700 --> 01:19:02.940
 We mailed out notices to everyone within 500 feet.

01:19:02.940 --> 01:19:08.520
 Within 200 feet, we received six responses in opposition for 5.03%, which are shown here

01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:14.480
 on this map in red, and one response in favor, 5.41%, which is shown here on this map in

01:19:14.480 --> 01:19:16.600
 green.

01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:23.320
 The applicant held four neighborhood meetings beginning in December of last year.

01:19:23.320 --> 01:19:27.800
 Staff does recommend approval of the request as it seeks to achieve the preservation of

01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:32.160
 land and trees while clustering the development on the balance of the property, and it does

01:19:32.160 --> 01:19:34.520
 comply with the criteria for approval.

01:19:34.520 --> 01:19:39.840
 This is tentatively scheduled for City Council on October 15th, 2024.

01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:43.520
 Happy to answer any questions, and the applicant is also here with the presentation.

01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:44.920
 Thank you very much, Ashley.

01:19:44.920 --> 01:19:45.920
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:49.280
 Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ashley, for the presentation.

01:19:49.280 --> 01:19:54.440
 Could you explain, I know the letter said they moved doors and windows around, but perhaps

01:19:54.440 --> 01:20:00.080
 could you explain like percentage, what percentage is the original building?

01:20:00.080 --> 01:20:04.280
 Our historic preservation officer toured the home, and she did not let me know what percentage

01:20:04.280 --> 01:20:10.400
 the original building was, but she did state that the cost to bring it back to its original

01:20:10.400 --> 01:20:15.640
 state would be prohibitive to accomplish with what was left of the structure that is there

01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:16.640
 now.

01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:17.640
 Gotcha.

01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:22.440
 And I guess, traditionally, what wouldn't be the deciding factor on declaring this a

01:20:22.440 --> 01:20:26.720
 historical building, and in this case, we're not declaring it a historical building.

01:20:26.720 --> 01:20:30.600
 So I'm going to help with this one.

01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:37.680
 So within the debt and development code, there are, I believe it's 13 criteria for evaluation

01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:42.880
 of structures if they are designated, and so typically, property owners come forth and

01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:46.160
 would request designation of their property, and we would evaluate it in accordance with

01:20:46.160 --> 01:20:47.280
 that.

01:20:47.280 --> 01:20:49.600
 But in this case, that did not occur.

01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:50.600
 Gotcha.

01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:53.120
 Thank you.

01:20:53.120 --> 01:20:54.120
 Anything else?

01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:56.800
 We've got Ashley up here right now.

01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:58.120
 Okay.

01:20:58.120 --> 01:20:59.120
 We may call you back.

01:20:59.120 --> 01:21:00.120
 Thank you.

01:21:00.120 --> 01:21:04.680
 I do have some cards wishing to speak on this item, the first being the applicant, so I'll

01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:07.960
 go ahead and invite Amy Bissett up.

01:21:07.960 --> 01:21:08.960
 Hello.

01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:09.960
 Hello.

01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:10.960
 Good evening, commissioners.

01:21:10.960 --> 01:21:16.680
 Amy Bissett, 97 Land, 109 North Elm, 76201.

01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:20.820
 And I do have a brief presentation, but I'm going to leave a lot of this presentation

01:21:20.820 --> 01:21:23.000
 to my client.

01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:30.800
 I do want to start by sharing perhaps a couple of personal thoughts about why I took this

01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:31.800
 project.

01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:38.200
 18 years ago, I was a staff member with Keep Denton Beautiful, and I drove by this site

01:21:38.200 --> 01:21:42.240
 every day going to work, and I fell in love with it.

01:21:42.240 --> 01:21:48.940
 The beautiful trees, the post oaks, the hill, the history of Evers Farm, and having the

01:21:48.940 --> 01:21:53.600
 privilege of being a part of the parks management team at that time, I began to advocate for

01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:59.520
 the city to look at acquiring the property for permanent preservation.

01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:03.600
 Over the course of the next 10 years, while I worked for the city, I continued to look

01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:11.720
 at funding options and explore ways to acquire the property to bring it into permanent preservation.

01:22:11.720 --> 01:22:18.480
 Unfortunately, the parks department, their strategic priorities are to place parks where

01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:23.640
 their currently residents don't have access within walking distance to park amenities

01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:25.280
 and recreational activities.

01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:33.160
 In this area, we have Evers Park, and it's not too far but distance to North Lakes Park.

01:22:33.160 --> 01:22:37.880
 Just in terms of funding priorities, it didn't make sense to acquire the property at that

01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:38.880
 time.

01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:44.320
 However, over the course of 18 years, I've continued to watch it, and over the last few

01:22:44.320 --> 01:22:50.880
 years, as a zoning consultant, I have spoken with numerous developers, engineers, and brokers

01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:53.440
 who have looked at this site.

01:22:53.440 --> 01:22:58.640
 To be perfectly honest, I was not willing to touch it with a 10-foot pole until JPI

01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:03.600
 came along and showed me a site where they were looking at preserving as much of this

01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:06.600
 property as possible.

01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:09.840
 I want you to consider for a moment what they're actually doing here.

01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:16.000
 They're buying 25 acres of property for a development project, and they are donating

01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:21.760
 over 10 acres of that property to the city for permanent public use.

01:23:21.760 --> 01:23:28.480
 That's 40% of their site, 40% of the land cost that they are willing to give away in

01:23:28.480 --> 01:23:32.280
 order to preserve this property.

01:23:32.280 --> 01:23:39.400
 Furthermore, I did witness extensive conversations and site visits between JPI and the city regarding

01:23:39.400 --> 01:23:45.040
 the historic value of the home on site.

01:23:45.040 --> 01:23:51.240
 We all made a lot of effort to look at the potential for saving it and restoring it back

01:23:51.240 --> 01:23:56.920
 to its original condition, and ultimately, with it being on the property that is being

01:23:56.920 --> 01:24:02.840
 dedicated to the city and the Parks Department, the ongoing maintenance of that was problematic

01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:08.760
 in addition to the fact that the historic value had been compromised through multiple

01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.480
 renovations over the years.

01:24:11.480 --> 01:24:15.480
 I just want to say that I have personally watched and advocated for the preservation

01:24:15.480 --> 01:24:21.060
 of this property for literally 18 years now, and not a single preservation opportunity

01:24:21.060 --> 01:24:23.880
 has come forward before now.

01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:30.920
 I believe genuinely that this plan development has the greatest potential to preserve as

01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:34.700
 much of this site as possible.

01:24:34.700 --> 01:24:37.920
 Because of that, I'm here representing it today.

01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:42.480
 I do want to walk you through a few details of the plan development and the specific standards

01:24:42.480 --> 01:24:44.240
 associated with it.

01:24:44.240 --> 01:24:49.040
 The purpose of this plan development is to facilitate a clustered multifamily development

01:24:49.040 --> 01:24:55.600
 on 15.76 acres while preserving 10.2 acres of open space and existing trees.

01:24:55.600 --> 01:25:01.560
 I do want to note here that the park dedication ordinance would require a dedication of 2.4

01:25:01.560 --> 01:25:10.460
 acres, so they are proposing four times the required amount of park dedication.

01:25:10.460 --> 01:25:15.800
 We have written a definition of this land use in the plan development, calling it clustered

01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:17.880
 multifamily development.

01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:22.400
 That definition is a multifamily development in which density is allowed to be concentrated

01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:26.040
 in exchange for the permanent protection of open space.

01:25:26.040 --> 01:25:32.120
 The purpose is to protect sensitive lands and common open space areas.

01:25:32.120 --> 01:25:38.680
 I wrote the PD standards, and I can tell you that they include enhancements to required

01:25:38.680 --> 01:25:45.320
 open space, required amenities, required tree preservation and required landscape requirements.

01:25:45.320 --> 01:25:49.540
 They promote the protection and enhancement of natural resources.

01:25:49.540 --> 01:25:54.420
 There is some height relief written into the PD standards, specifically to be sensitive

01:25:54.420 --> 01:26:00.600
 to the surrounding context, and obviously there's dedication of significant public parkland,

01:26:00.600 --> 01:26:07.320
 and the construction of park amenities is provided for by the developer as well.

01:26:07.320 --> 01:26:15.440
 The Denton 2040 Comp Plan, simply put, addresses the opportunity to encourage long-term sustainability

01:26:15.440 --> 01:26:19.080
 by promoting compact, purposeful growth.

01:26:19.080 --> 01:26:24.160
 I believe that this project meets multiple objectives within the Comp Plan, including

01:26:24.160 --> 01:26:31.240
 conservation development, which is a concept that is discussed throughout the Comp Plan

01:26:31.240 --> 01:26:40.680
 where it is intended to encourage clustering to, in return, preserve open space.

01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:43.760
 Also, this discourages urban sprawl.

01:26:43.760 --> 01:26:49.040
 It encourages infill and compact development, which is the preferred growth pattern within

01:26:49.040 --> 01:26:55.560
 the Comp Plan, and encourages a broad array of housing choices.

01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:59.380
 Housing choice and affordability, I do want to point out that within the last few weeks,

01:26:59.380 --> 01:27:05.280
 you all had a work session on incentives for affordable housing, and one of those contemplated

01:27:05.280 --> 01:27:13.480
 incentives was a density bonus, which is similar to what we're proposing here in exchange for

01:27:13.480 --> 01:27:16.080
 preservation of open space.

01:27:16.080 --> 01:27:19.200
 With that, I'm going to turn it over to Rich Darrow with JPI.

01:27:19.200 --> 01:27:23.240
 JPI did facilitate their own neighborhood meetings, so I'm going to let them go through

01:27:23.240 --> 01:27:28.480
 the details of how those went, as well as the details of their plans.

01:27:28.480 --> 01:27:30.440
 Thank you.

01:27:30.440 --> 01:27:33.560
 Thanks, Amy.

01:27:33.560 --> 01:27:37.480
 You're good.

01:27:37.480 --> 01:27:47.960
 20 minutes total, that is fine.

01:27:47.960 --> 01:27:48.960
 Absolutely.

01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:49.960
 Thank you.

01:27:49.960 --> 01:27:50.960
 Yes.

01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:51.960
 Hi.

01:27:51.960 --> 01:27:52.960
 Good evening.

01:27:52.960 --> 01:27:56.320
 Thank you, everyone, for letting us come before you tonight.

01:27:56.320 --> 01:27:57.320
 My name is Rich Darrow.

01:27:57.320 --> 01:27:58.960
 I work for JPI.

01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:05.600
 Our address is 9001 Cypress Waters Boulevard in Irving, Texas, 75019.

01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:06.600
 Thank you, Ashley, for your presentation.

01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:10.320
 Thank you, Amy, for stepping up and discussing the property, as well.

01:28:10.320 --> 01:28:14.160
 I'll go through ... I know I'm short on time, so I'll go through briefly who we are, and

01:28:14.160 --> 01:28:18.380
 then I'll get into the plan and everything that we've done since, really, last October.

01:28:18.380 --> 01:28:22.160
 So who JPI is ... We've been around since 1989.

01:28:22.160 --> 01:28:30.560
 We have developed in 141 different cities, created 114,000 homes in across 373 different

01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:31.560
 communities.

01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:36.400
 We are the number one fastest growing developer in the nation.

01:28:36.400 --> 01:28:39.880
 We're the number eight largest developer in the nation.

01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:44.800
 We're the number two fastest growing builder in the nation, and number 11 largest builder

01:28:44.800 --> 01:28:45.800
 in the nation.

01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:51.000
 And that is all based off of just DFW, and then we also have an office in California,

01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:55.000
 and that is just off two markets, so everything that we're competing with is our national

01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:58.120
 brands, and we are just ... We're local developers.

01:28:58.120 --> 01:28:59.120
 We're the market leader.

01:28:59.120 --> 01:29:02.840
 Everywhere we go, we want to be the nicest product with the highest rent.

01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:08.840
 Everything that we do is class A. We're always looking at the next trends, whatever we can

01:29:08.840 --> 01:29:13.840
 do to make the apartment the most appealing for the new renters.

01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:15.960
 We're also a one-stop shop.

01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:19.440
 We find the site, we plan the site, we develop it.

01:29:19.440 --> 01:29:22.080
 We construct the building and we manage it.

01:29:22.080 --> 01:29:23.820
 So we're a one-stop shop.

01:29:23.820 --> 01:29:29.040
 Everything is at JPI, which is also good for the city and good for control of the development.

01:29:29.040 --> 01:29:31.880
 Here's a little bit of examples of what we do.

01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:35.120
 So this is main leasing center.

01:29:35.120 --> 01:29:38.720
 This is what you walk into, double volume ceilings.

01:29:38.720 --> 01:29:43.800
 Community areas, also enough room to also have the leasing agents lease out.

01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:47.960
 Here's more community areas overlooking a courtyard and pool.

01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:51.920
 City of the Art Fitness Center, you have everything you can do in the fitness center, from free

01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:54.880
 weights to cardio to CrossFit stuff.

01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:57.520
 And then we even go above and beyond on the mail rooms.

01:29:57.520 --> 01:29:59.800
 We also see this as a gathering area.

01:29:59.800 --> 01:30:02.440
 A big thing for our communities is to have community.

01:30:02.440 --> 01:30:08.200
 We want our residents to come together, to be together, and have a sense of community

01:30:08.200 --> 01:30:10.120
 within our developments.

01:30:10.120 --> 01:30:13.920
 And so our property management team, onsite property management team also has programmed

01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:20.160
 events within the leasing centers and within the pool areas throughout the year.

01:30:20.160 --> 01:30:22.360
 This is an example of one of our units.

01:30:22.360 --> 01:30:24.000
 So I'll get into the project.

01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:29.400
 I know Ashley showed a 2D image, but here's a 3D image of our elevations.

01:30:29.400 --> 01:30:34.800
 This is the third iteration of elevations we've had after multiple neighborhood meetings.

01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:36.360
 Now we'll get into the site location.

01:30:36.360 --> 01:30:38.560
 So Amy touched on it a bit.

01:30:38.560 --> 01:30:40.560
 We first found the site in October.

01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.720
 Again, it's 25 acres, and I saw this as an opportunity.

01:30:44.720 --> 01:30:48.400
 I spoke with the sellers, and they saw this as an opportunity as well.

01:30:48.400 --> 01:30:51.880
 We weren't the only developers looking at this site, and they also had single family

01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:57.080
 developers and bill torrent developers looking at this site, where they would go across the

01:30:57.080 --> 01:31:03.120
 entire piece of land and wreck all of the trees, and they saw our plan, and they liked

01:31:03.120 --> 01:31:06.640
 our plan, and they thought that had the best chance to move forward because we were consolidating

01:31:06.640 --> 01:31:10.020
 the density to the southeast.

01:31:10.020 --> 01:31:12.880
 As Ashley did a good job of mentioning, it's zoned R2.

01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:16.040
 You could have 70 houses with no preservation.

01:31:16.040 --> 01:31:20.800
 Future land use is neighborhood mixed use, which allows for multifamily.

01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:23.320
 And then here's the project again.

01:31:23.320 --> 01:31:29.320
 Amy went over this, but again, it's 25 acres, 450 units consolidated in the southeast.

01:31:29.320 --> 01:31:34.680
 You have 10.2 acres that will be dedicated to parks, and then that will go through its

01:31:34.680 --> 01:31:40.240
 own public hearing with a developer's agreement post-zoning.

01:31:40.240 --> 01:31:45.800
 Within that 10 and a half acres of park land, we have a tree grove, we'll have a little

01:31:45.800 --> 01:31:49.080
 meadow where there isn't any trees, and we'll have a trail around it, and we'll also have

01:31:49.080 --> 01:31:50.960
 the Avers Memorial Park.

01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:56.240
 All in all, this development will have 3,500 feet of meandering trails just within this

01:31:56.240 --> 01:32:02.220
 portion itself, and then that doesn't include 2,800 feet of trails that we're installing

01:32:02.220 --> 01:32:07.160
 both across the city land on the northeast, and then along Elm and Locust to our east

01:32:07.160 --> 01:32:09.500
 and south.

01:32:09.500 --> 01:32:15.680
 We're preserving 52% of the trees, which is well over the required preservation of trees.

01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:17.840
 Multifamily developers have to preserve 25%.

01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:23.560
 Single-family developers have to preserve 20%, and we are at 52%.

01:32:23.560 --> 01:32:29.320
 All of the improvements to the park will be on our dollar in collaboration with the Parks

01:32:29.320 --> 01:32:33.720
 Department, but that is what the developer's agreement will be for, so we can work through

01:32:33.720 --> 01:32:36.080
 the details of what this concept will be.

01:32:36.080 --> 01:32:41.400
 We've had a neighborhood meeting, the fourth neighborhood meeting we discussed with the

01:32:41.400 --> 01:32:47.880
 neighbors about the Avers Memorial Park, and we've had multiple neighbors reach out to

01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:53.160
 us post-meeting with ideas of what to do with that park, because we're not the most creative

01:32:53.160 --> 01:32:57.080
 when it comes to something like that, so we've received some ideas of what to do.

01:32:57.080 --> 01:33:01.600
 What we proposed was a shade structure with a manicured lawn and then a plaque that will

01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:07.440
 commemorate the Avers family, what that land was, and it'll be a nice little gathering

01:33:07.440 --> 01:33:09.480
 area for the community.

01:33:09.480 --> 01:33:13.840
 This is something we received from a neighbor over the weekend, actually, and this is one

01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:17.640
 of her ideas for commemorating the Avers family.

01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:21.600
 To the bottom left of the picture, this is Franklin Court in Philadelphia.

01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:26.360
 This is actually Benjamin Franklin's old house, and the city had wrecked it, and then they

01:33:26.360 --> 01:33:31.640
 decided to put a ghost house there so people can still gather in that area and play in

01:33:31.640 --> 01:33:34.360
 the courtyard and have another gathering space.

01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:37.680
 On the right side of the page is in South Carolina.

01:33:37.680 --> 01:33:43.420
 It's a whole plantation memorial, and this is one of the original houses on the plantation.

01:33:43.420 --> 01:33:46.760
 What that is is it's showing the footprint of the house, and then if you look through

01:33:46.760 --> 01:33:51.880
 that picture frame, it'll show the house through engraving on glass, so you can kind of see

01:33:51.880 --> 01:33:53.480
 what the structure of the house is.

01:33:53.480 --> 01:33:58.640
 That's just one of the ideas, we're open to anything.

01:33:58.640 --> 01:33:59.960
 More on the trail connectivity.

01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:05.380
 This touches on the 10-foot sidewalk along the entire boundary of the property.

01:34:05.380 --> 01:34:07.800
 And then addressing the city need.

01:34:07.800 --> 01:34:13.640
 The city did a study in February of 2024 that put together a strategic toolkit in order to

01:34:13.640 --> 01:34:19.160
 help developers build moderately priced homes, because obviously in the past few years we've

01:34:19.160 --> 01:34:25.480
 had a lack of moderately priced homes being built.

01:34:25.480 --> 01:34:31.000
 The big boom in the last few years has been houses from 300,000 and up, and most of them

01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:36.120
 really are at 400,000, and 300,000 is just the marketing price.

01:34:36.120 --> 01:34:40.360
 According to the housing needs assessment done in '21, which is what this study took

01:34:40.360 --> 01:34:45.520
 into account, the city can anticipate demand for approximately 4,300 moderately priced

01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:50.480
 units between 2021 and 2030.

01:34:50.480 --> 01:34:58.840
 More key takeaways is public-private partnerships and cities working with developers for incentives

01:34:58.840 --> 01:35:03.000
 and grants and infill zoning changes, and then public-private partnership including

01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:05.400
 partnering with the Denton Housing Authority.

01:35:05.400 --> 01:35:09.160
 So our project fits into this because we've actually partnered with the Denton Housing

01:35:09.160 --> 01:35:10.160
 Authority.

01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:14.320
 This would be the third deal we're working with the Denton Housing Authority.

01:35:14.320 --> 01:35:19.120
 We already have executed a memorandum of understanding with them, which is essentially like an LOI

01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:22.880
 for buying a piece of property or a house.

01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:27.760
 So we've already partnered with them and come to an agreement to have the 50% market

01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:28.760
 rate units.

01:35:28.760 --> 01:35:33.120
 So this will still be our Class A product market rate product, but we'll, because of

01:35:33.120 --> 01:35:38.760
 our partnership with the Denton Housing Authority, we'll have 40% of the units serving 80% AMI,

01:35:38.760 --> 01:35:43.480
 which is 80% of area median income.

01:35:43.480 --> 01:35:48.400
 So 40% of those units will serve the people that are making that and then 10% of the units

01:35:48.400 --> 01:35:51.520
 will be serving 50% of the area median income.

01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:55.680
 So the goal here is to keep your teachers in town, your police in town, your firefighters

01:35:55.680 --> 01:36:00.500
 in town, your nurses in town, but also post-grants because you get a lot of young professionals

01:36:00.500 --> 01:36:04.640
 when they graduate UNT they want to stay in Denton and it's hard for them to find somewhere

01:36:04.640 --> 01:36:07.920
 to live that they can afford.

01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:09.960
 Now I'll go into the neighborhood outreach.

01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:12.040
 We've had four neighborhood meetings in total.

01:36:12.040 --> 01:36:14.920
 The first one was in December of 2023.

01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:16.520
 We presented our first plan.

01:36:16.520 --> 01:36:24.280
 We heard concerns about the site layout, about the house not being preserved and overall

01:36:24.280 --> 01:36:26.360
 kind of what our architecture looked like.

01:36:26.360 --> 01:36:27.960
 So we heard that.

01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:29.500
 We took all that into account.

01:36:29.500 --> 01:36:33.440
 We then went back to the drawing board with the site plan and elevations and then had

01:36:33.440 --> 01:36:34.440
 a second neighborhood meeting.

01:36:34.440 --> 01:36:38.120
 And that second neighborhood meeting is when we moved everything to the southeast where

01:36:38.120 --> 01:36:41.760
 the least amount of trees were away from the property because our plan at that point was

01:36:41.760 --> 01:36:45.440
 to preserve the Evers farmhouse.

01:36:45.440 --> 01:36:49.160
 And then at that meeting as well we showed another rendering of what our elevations looked

01:36:49.160 --> 01:36:50.160
 like.

01:36:50.160 --> 01:36:54.360
 We still had work to do there, but then we decided we needed a third neighborhood meeting.

01:36:54.360 --> 01:36:57.640
 But before that third neighborhood meeting and because of the result of the second neighborhood

01:36:57.640 --> 01:37:01.960
 meeting we had, I actually had a sidewalk with the previous owner, Mike Reed, because

01:37:01.960 --> 01:37:04.800
 I wanted to see since we're preserving this house I wanted to know what we're getting

01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:05.800
 into.

01:37:05.800 --> 01:37:07.440
 And I walked the house with him.

01:37:07.440 --> 01:37:13.120
 He walked me through all the additions that had been done to the house, some by him himself,

01:37:13.120 --> 01:37:15.440
 some by his wife's grandparents.

01:37:15.440 --> 01:37:20.600
 And I know Jordan you had brought up kind of what the percentage was of the house.

01:37:20.600 --> 01:37:24.820
 I don't have percentages exactly, but I know originally it was a four bedroom house and

01:37:24.820 --> 01:37:30.040
 since then two rooms have been attached, a second story has been attached, and the wraparound

01:37:30.040 --> 01:37:31.520
 porch is not original either.

01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:33.720
 So you're looking at quite a bit.

01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:40.400
 And in order to preserve that house, after doing a sidewalk with city staff, parks, and

01:37:40.400 --> 01:37:44.520
 Cameron Robertson, the historic preservation officer, was determined in a collaboration

01:37:44.520 --> 01:37:49.560
 effort with them that it's kind of you're doing more harm than good by saving that house.

01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:53.920
 Because when it comes to that house you have to take off all of the additions that have

01:37:53.920 --> 01:37:59.040
 been done in order to bring it back to its original state, in order for it to be historic.

01:37:59.040 --> 01:38:05.340
 And then on top of that you also have to bring it up to modern codes, which modern electrical,

01:38:05.340 --> 01:38:08.580
 fire lanes, more parking, more driveways.

01:38:08.580 --> 01:38:12.520
 So in making the footprint of the house smaller, you're actually making it larger and eating

01:38:12.520 --> 01:38:13.980
 more into the trees.

01:38:13.980 --> 01:38:18.840
 So we decided that the best way of preserving the history of the family was to have a park.

01:38:18.840 --> 01:38:24.280
 And so that's why we're open to ideas with neighbors and in collaboration with parks department

01:38:24.280 --> 01:38:29.520
 and the city to figure out the best plan of action, which is why that'll be hammered out

01:38:29.520 --> 01:38:33.920
 through a developer's agreement, which will also be going to a public hearing.

01:38:33.920 --> 01:38:38.080
 I mentioned the sidewalk with staff already, and then we had the third neighborhood meeting

01:38:38.080 --> 01:38:43.480
 to update the neighbors on how the house was no longer going to be there.

01:38:43.480 --> 01:38:46.040
 The first two meetings we had about 40, 50 people there.

01:38:46.040 --> 01:38:49.000
 The third meeting we only had six people there.

01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:53.520
 So obviously didn't get much feedback there, but we told them everything that we did to

01:38:53.520 --> 01:38:56.440
 get to that point.

01:38:56.440 --> 01:38:58.920
 And then we had a fourth neighborhood meeting and the fourth neighborhood meeting, there

01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:01.920
 was a larger turnout around 30 to 40 people.

01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:06.040
 And we relate again that the existing home would not be pursued for preservation for

01:39:06.040 --> 01:39:07.960
 everything that I just said.

01:39:07.960 --> 01:39:12.980
 And then we asked all the attendees to give input on what they would like that gathering

01:39:12.980 --> 01:39:13.980
 area to look like.

01:39:13.980 --> 01:39:19.280
 And like I said before, we've received some suggestions already and we're willing to continue

01:39:19.280 --> 01:39:23.400
 to work with the neighbors and parks department in order to figure out something that's best

01:39:23.400 --> 01:39:31.080
 for the city, best for the neighborhood, and best for the entire area.

01:39:31.080 --> 01:39:34.080
 And then here's another picture of our rendering.

01:39:34.080 --> 01:39:35.520
 And that is the end of the presentation.

01:39:35.520 --> 01:39:39.520
 I respectfully request your support tonight and thank you for your time.

01:39:39.520 --> 01:39:40.760
 I'm here for any questions.

01:39:40.760 --> 01:39:41.760
 Thank you.

01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:42.760
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:39:42.760 --> 01:39:43.760
 Thank you, Sharon.

01:39:43.760 --> 01:39:44.760
 Thank you for the presentation.

01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:49.080
 So I know there have been parks that have incorporated historic homes into the park

01:39:49.080 --> 01:39:50.080
 layout.

01:39:50.080 --> 01:39:54.160
 Has that been a consideration to incorporate the historic aspects of this home, removing

01:39:54.160 --> 01:39:58.240
 the additions and just incorporating what was originally there as a part of the park

01:39:58.240 --> 01:39:59.240
 perhaps?

01:39:59.240 --> 01:40:04.240
 Actually, what we've suggested to the neighbors and what we have been talking about, our original

01:40:04.240 --> 01:40:09.240
 idea was with that shade structure to use materials from the house to build this shade

01:40:09.240 --> 01:40:10.240
 structure.

01:40:10.240 --> 01:40:16.240
 So you could still have, in a sense, the integrity of the house or the footprint of the house,

01:40:16.240 --> 01:40:20.720
 but it would be built with obviously modern materials but as many materials as we could

01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:22.360
 save from the original house.

01:40:22.360 --> 01:40:28.440
 So there's no way for us to preserve the historic original building, the aspects from the historic

01:40:28.440 --> 01:40:33.640
 original building, and make that a part of the park so folks can come view it, come look

01:40:33.640 --> 01:40:38.720
 at the house, anything like there's parks that include those historic homes, those log

01:40:38.720 --> 01:40:39.720
 cabin type.

01:40:39.720 --> 01:40:40.720
 Right.

01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:41.720
 Right.

01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:43.920
 So in order to do that, you would have to take off all the additions.

01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:46.600
 I think that's where the cost prohibition came in.

01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:47.600
 I assume that was the discussion.

01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:48.600
 Yes.

01:40:48.600 --> 01:40:52.120
 I mean, that's also not our expertise, but that's why we were dedicating it to the city

01:40:52.120 --> 01:40:55.640
 so that that could be something they could work on, which is why we had the sidewalks

01:40:55.640 --> 01:40:58.440
 with them so they could see what they were getting into as well.

01:40:58.440 --> 01:41:02.320
 And that's when it was decided it's more harm than good in order to save it.

01:41:02.320 --> 01:41:05.280
 So we would rather take those materials that we could save.

01:41:05.280 --> 01:41:08.880
 So in that case, they would have to, even if it's just part of a park, they would have

01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:12.080
 to add the, they would have to modernize it, is that correct?

01:41:12.080 --> 01:41:13.080
 Yeah, for safety reasons.

01:41:13.080 --> 01:41:14.080
 For safety.

01:41:14.080 --> 01:41:15.080
 Okay.

01:41:15.080 --> 01:41:16.080
 Right.

01:41:16.080 --> 01:41:17.820
 If you're offering it to the public to view, you'd have to, that's where the code comes

01:41:17.820 --> 01:41:22.280
 in and all of that, because you can't, you'd have to do that for liability and safety.

01:41:22.280 --> 01:41:25.640
 And if the public were to come view it and have it essentially be a statue, you'd have

01:41:25.640 --> 01:41:31.000
 to have huge fences up around it and yeah, I would kind of take away from the whole serenity

01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:32.000
 in the area.

01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:33.000
 Okay.

01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:34.400
 I think Tina has something to add to your question as well.

01:41:34.400 --> 01:41:35.400
 Yes.

01:41:35.400 --> 01:41:39.800
 And in addition to what Chair Ellis said, so having worked with our parks director and

01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:45.020
 many other parks directors, one of the challenges that you have when you have potential structures

01:41:45.020 --> 01:41:50.640
 like this being incorporated within a park, the public is very hard on structures.

01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:55.620
 That's why you see structures in our parks built of much solid more, or solid materials

01:41:55.620 --> 01:42:00.960
 such as masonry or CMU block a lot of times and steel and things of that nature.

01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:06.920
 And so our staff, you know, as the applicant said, you know, our staff did evaluate the

01:42:06.920 --> 01:42:07.920
 structure.

01:42:07.920 --> 01:42:12.080
 There are opportunities for preservation associated with it as part of the park improvements.

01:42:12.080 --> 01:42:16.720
 And again, you know, we concur with the applicant that based upon our assessment as well, the

01:42:16.720 --> 01:42:22.160
 historical integrity of the home is no longer present in a manner also where the city would

01:42:22.160 --> 01:42:27.320
 consider being able to restore that property or excuse me, restore that structure.

01:42:27.320 --> 01:42:31.260
 And again, having to modernize that structure and then making that structure durable for

01:42:31.260 --> 01:42:35.720
 public use, because again, the public is very hard on structures of that nature.

01:42:35.720 --> 01:42:39.520
 It was not in the best interest of the city.

01:42:39.520 --> 01:42:40.520
 Got it.

01:42:40.520 --> 01:42:41.520
 Thank you.

01:42:41.520 --> 01:42:42.520
 Thank you.

01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:43.520
 Thank you.

01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:44.520
 Sure.

01:42:44.520 --> 01:42:45.520
 Thank you.

01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:48.520
 Any other questions at this time for the applicant?

01:42:48.520 --> 01:42:52.200
 Okay, we may have questions for you later, but thank you very much for the presentation.

01:42:52.200 --> 01:42:53.200
 Appreciate it.

01:42:53.200 --> 01:42:54.200
 Thank you very much.

01:42:54.200 --> 01:42:57.320
 I do have cards wishing to speak on this item.

01:42:57.320 --> 01:43:06.160
 First I have is Kim Spivey.

01:43:06.160 --> 01:43:07.160
 Hi there.

01:43:07.160 --> 01:43:11.220
 If you'll come down and state your name, your four minutes will begin.

01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:16.160
 My name is Kim Spivey and I live in that area.

01:43:16.160 --> 01:43:24.680
 I've lived there for about 20 years, driving by it every day on my way to and from work.

01:43:24.680 --> 01:43:29.880
 I am not in love with having more apartments in Denton.

01:43:29.880 --> 01:43:37.520
 I started going to the meetings and listening to what they had to say, and I am in favor

01:43:37.520 --> 01:43:42.680
 of this project because of the tree preservation.

01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:52.120
 A single family builder would just mow down all the trees, so I feel like this is a much

01:43:52.120 --> 01:44:03.000
 better plan overall than the alternatives, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

01:44:03.000 --> 01:44:04.000
 Thank you.

01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:06.240
 Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

01:44:06.240 --> 01:44:09.040
 Next card I have is Charles Lee.

01:44:09.040 --> 01:44:11.840
 You'll come forward and state your name.

01:44:11.840 --> 01:44:12.840
 Your time will begin.

01:44:12.840 --> 01:44:13.840
 Hi.

01:44:13.840 --> 01:44:14.840
 Good evening.

01:44:14.840 --> 01:44:17.840
 My name is Charles Lee.

01:44:17.840 --> 01:44:24.280
 I'm saying this is the first time I live over there, and it's the first time I've heard

01:44:24.280 --> 01:44:25.280
 of it.

01:44:25.280 --> 01:44:26.280
 I never got no notice.

01:44:26.280 --> 01:44:27.940
 You said 500 feet.

01:44:27.940 --> 01:44:31.960
 That's like nothing because I never got heard of anything about this, and I think it's a

01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:33.640
 terrible plan.

01:44:33.640 --> 01:44:36.800
 You put 450 more people over in that area.

01:44:36.800 --> 01:44:40.680
 You know how much traffic that's going to cause around in that area, and that area is

01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:45.640
 completely surrounded by single family homes, all the way around it, and it'll stick out

01:44:45.640 --> 01:44:49.920
 like if we have sore thumb, and you're just going to cause nothing but traffic.

01:44:49.920 --> 01:44:53.000
 I really don't like it at all.

01:44:53.000 --> 01:45:00.100
 This is the whole thing about the ... I spoke about this last week with this historical

01:45:00.100 --> 01:45:07.800
 code that you have, so people get a 25% basement where you have to take these houses that have

01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:13.400
 no historical value, but then we get some slick lawyer and some sick suit that's going

01:45:13.400 --> 01:45:18.520
 to come up with some rude story to make this house historical when it really has no historical

01:45:18.520 --> 01:45:24.360
 value, and you slap a 25% abatement on the property taxes, but then you have a house

01:45:24.360 --> 01:45:28.960
 over here who really does have historical value, but it's not going to make any money,

01:45:28.960 --> 01:45:33.760
 so let's just tear that down and just slap it around and get some slick developer that

01:45:33.760 --> 01:45:38.200
 doesn't even live in that area that's going to develop it, and you're going to put 450

01:45:38.200 --> 01:45:42.800
 more people in here so the town can make some more money, that they can spend it, and they're

01:45:42.800 --> 01:45:44.920
 raising up all our property taxes.

01:45:44.920 --> 01:45:47.980
 I'm telling you, I'm not liking this at all.

01:45:47.980 --> 01:45:49.920
 We need to really clean shop here.

01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:53.240
 We need to get rid of all these people on this board, because they're not representing

01:45:53.240 --> 01:45:56.600
 the interests of the people that live here at all.

01:45:56.600 --> 01:45:57.600
 This house is historic.

01:45:57.600 --> 01:46:01.680
 It needs to be historic, and there's nothing but single-family houses to be able to go

01:46:01.680 --> 01:46:08.400
 in there or to just leave it as a blank area, and what else do I have to say?

01:46:08.400 --> 01:46:14.360
 Pretty much, that's all I have to say, because this whole historic thing is a bunch of nonsense,

01:46:14.360 --> 01:46:19.480
 because you make stuff and all these historic labels on these houses, and they're not historic,

01:46:19.480 --> 01:46:25.000
 but then we got this one house that is historic, but they forget about all about it.

01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:33.640
 It's just a whole ruse, and I'm not buying it at all.

01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:37.000
 Next card I have is a group wishing to speak.

01:46:37.000 --> 01:46:41.260
 The name I have on it is Jacob Light.

01:46:41.260 --> 01:46:58.760
 Do we all come up here, or is it just one of you?

01:46:58.760 --> 01:46:59.760
 You can come up.

01:46:59.760 --> 01:47:00.760
 Yeah, everybody can come up.

01:47:00.760 --> 01:47:01.760
 Are you all wanting to speak?

01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:02.760
 Or is one person speaking for the group?

01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:03.760
 Can we all speak?

01:47:03.760 --> 01:47:04.760
 Is it four minutes still?

01:47:04.760 --> 01:47:11.400
 No, no, the group, I think we'll have 10, so whoever wants to go first, just state your

01:47:11.400 --> 01:47:12.400
 name and your time will begin.

01:47:12.400 --> 01:47:13.400
 Hello, my name's Larry Bell.

01:47:13.400 --> 01:47:16.400
 And if you could talk on the microphone, yeah, just for television.

01:47:16.400 --> 01:47:17.400
 Hello, my name's Larry Bell.

01:47:17.400 --> 01:47:18.400
 Thank you.

01:47:18.400 --> 01:47:19.400
 I'm a recent resident of Dension.

01:47:19.400 --> 01:47:23.520
 I live on Gable, and I want to thank the Commission for allowing us the opportunity to speak,

01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:27.140
 discuss our concerns, and possibly consider our concerns.

01:47:27.140 --> 01:47:32.320
 One of the major concerns I have, and I have not seen addressed, is the increase in population

01:47:32.320 --> 01:47:34.560
 density for that area.

01:47:34.560 --> 01:47:41.200
 If we're going to take 26 acres, prune it down to 10 less, 15, you're going to take

01:47:41.200 --> 01:47:47.880
 450 apartments with one, two, or three bedrooms, you're looking at an increase of 1,000 people

01:47:47.880 --> 01:47:51.240
 in that 10-acre land, 10-acre plot.

01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:58.120
 The average density right now for Dension is approximately 1,450 people per square mile.

01:47:58.120 --> 01:48:05.520
 So, you're taking a fraction of an acre and increasing the density almost two-thirds.

01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:11.980
 You're going from 1,450 to 1,000 in 10 acres, I'm sorry, 15 acres.

01:48:11.980 --> 01:48:14.400
 I have not seen how that's a benefit.

01:48:14.400 --> 01:48:16.600
 I've not seen how that's addressed.

01:48:16.600 --> 01:48:21.280
 I'm not seeing how that's going to work out financially for the city or for the residents

01:48:21.280 --> 01:48:23.080
 and their quality of life.

01:48:23.080 --> 01:48:27.040
 If there are options out there for it, I'd like to see it.

01:48:27.040 --> 01:48:30.640
 If there are other discussions, I've not heard them.

01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:33.840
 As I say, we recently moved to Denton in July.

01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:37.640
 We also didn't receive any information about this concept.

01:48:37.640 --> 01:48:41.880
 There's no prior notice to us, and I think that something needs further discussion and

01:48:41.880 --> 01:48:49.840
 evaluation above and beyond the side of the land, the preservation of the house, and the

01:48:49.840 --> 01:48:50.840
 trees.

01:48:50.840 --> 01:48:56.840
 The density impact on that local area in that small region is going to be catastrophic unless

01:48:56.840 --> 01:49:00.480
 it's addressed and rectified or recognized.

01:49:00.480 --> 01:49:01.480
 Thank you.

01:49:01.480 --> 01:49:02.480
 Thank you.

01:49:02.480 --> 01:49:03.480
 Hi.

01:49:03.480 --> 01:49:04.480
 Hello.

01:49:04.480 --> 01:49:11.040
 My name is Cody Temple, actually Larry's neighbor, representing a new homeowner within 500 feet

01:49:11.040 --> 01:49:12.040
 of this project.

01:49:12.040 --> 01:49:17.260
 I did receive a card a few days before the first meeting saying that would be impacted

01:49:17.260 --> 01:49:19.160
 within 500 feet.

01:49:19.160 --> 01:49:25.000
 So, he representing concern and opposition to this project following a lot of his same

01:49:25.000 --> 01:49:30.620
 concerns, but population density and it's something I want to talk about is visual pollution.

01:49:30.620 --> 01:49:35.360
 This emphasizing just looking at the quick rendering of what this is going to look like.

01:49:35.360 --> 01:49:39.520
 This to the city of Denton is going to be considered a skyscraper.

01:49:39.520 --> 01:49:45.000
 This thing is absolutely massive and absolutely will stick out like a sore thumb.

01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:48.360
 This thing is going to be absolutely huge, giant tower.

01:49:48.360 --> 01:49:53.720
 You're stacking a thousand people on a very small area with residential housing completely

01:49:53.720 --> 01:49:54.720
 surrounding it.

01:49:54.720 --> 01:49:56.840
 I mean, I moved to Denton three months ago.

01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:59.800
 This is my first home with the intention to start a family.

01:49:59.800 --> 01:50:05.640
 I went to school at University of North Texas from 2015, 2019, came back to Denton with

01:50:05.640 --> 01:50:11.960
 the sole purpose of having a small town vibes with big city amenities in at the same time.

01:50:11.960 --> 01:50:18.120
 But the area that I moved to is a more quieter area and this is completely going back to

01:50:18.120 --> 01:50:21.680
 where I moved from originally, which is downtown Dallas.

01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:25.360
 I mean, these apartments, they're calling it mixed use facilities.

01:50:25.360 --> 01:50:30.600
 It's an apartment complex and with that, a lot of people in a very small area and I don't

01:50:30.600 --> 01:50:33.480
 have numbers to back it up, but obviously we know when you stack a lot of people on

01:50:33.480 --> 01:50:36.400
 top of each other, I mean, crime is going to increase and there's already a lot of foot

01:50:36.400 --> 01:50:41.040
 traffic there and people that are moving to Denton, the houses are around this area.

01:50:41.040 --> 01:50:44.160
 This is not going to be attractive for them to come here.

01:50:44.160 --> 01:50:49.080
 I think it's also going to affect the future of Denton in a way of people moving here with

01:50:49.080 --> 01:50:52.640
 the purpose of owning a house and starting a family.

01:50:52.640 --> 01:50:53.640
 Thank you.

01:50:53.640 --> 01:50:54.640
 Thank you.

01:50:54.640 --> 01:50:58.200
 Last but not least, hi, my name is Jacob White.

01:50:58.200 --> 01:51:04.280
 I'm also new to the area and that's kind of something I wanted to point out here.

01:51:04.280 --> 01:51:07.200
 As well as the increase in traffic patterns and the density and stuff like that, that

01:51:07.200 --> 01:51:11.320
 I know may or may not be being addressed.

01:51:11.320 --> 01:51:16.080
 My wife and I bought a house in Gable Court right adjacent to where the apartment complex

01:51:16.080 --> 01:51:18.920
 is going to go back in April.

01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:22.520
 We just heard Larry bought a house, we heard Cody bought a house, there's a little bit

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:25.520
 of a consistency there.

01:51:25.520 --> 01:51:30.840
 I know that the goal of this is to drive, I guess to build housing, build attainable

01:51:30.840 --> 01:51:37.560
 housing in the area to kind of retain citizens and keep people in Denton proper.

01:51:37.560 --> 01:51:42.120
 I think even the threat of this coming is doing the quite opposite of that.

01:51:42.120 --> 01:51:48.080
 Our house sold very soon after having this issue first taking place.

01:51:48.080 --> 01:51:52.720
 Our neighbor's household, I can think of three if not four houses in our little cul-de-sac

01:51:52.720 --> 01:52:00.040
 of 10 houses that sold very, very soon after hearing that this was even going to potentially

01:52:00.040 --> 01:52:02.480
 be coming.

01:52:02.480 --> 01:52:05.040
 We moved to the area, we were local.

01:52:05.040 --> 01:52:10.080
 My wife and I are from Fort Worth, Texas and wife is getting her PhD at UNT, so we wanted

01:52:10.080 --> 01:52:12.840
 to be kind of local in the area.

01:52:12.840 --> 01:52:16.840
 We found Gable Court, a little cul-de-sac, quiet little cul-de-sac and absolutely fell

01:52:16.840 --> 01:52:21.320
 in love with it, unbeknownst to us, didn't know this was going to happen, looked across

01:52:21.320 --> 01:52:22.320
 the street.

01:52:22.320 --> 01:52:26.680
 We've got an 11 month old, which I know you've all been hearing her tonight, so I apologize.

01:52:26.680 --> 01:52:29.400
 She's very excited to talk about government.

01:52:29.400 --> 01:52:35.480
 As soon as we moved in, one of the other things that we loved is just the piece of land right

01:52:35.480 --> 01:52:40.760
 across with cows and trees and things like that, things for us to, just beautiful things

01:52:40.760 --> 01:52:43.200
 to see.

01:52:43.200 --> 01:52:48.600
 The fact that this is a potential thing that might be happening is just causing a little

01:52:48.600 --> 01:52:51.640
 bit of concern.

01:52:51.640 --> 01:52:57.680
 A couple of weeks after moving in, without this apartment complex and without the increase

01:52:57.680 --> 01:53:00.920
 of people moving, we're already having people walk through our neighborhood, cut through

01:53:00.920 --> 01:53:01.920
 our neighborhood.

01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:04.760
 I've had people in my garage scoping out things.

01:53:04.760 --> 01:53:10.820
 I've had Cody the other day, I know he's walking his dog around and he's finding sleeping bags

01:53:10.820 --> 01:53:14.360
 and bathing items and stuff like that around the house.

01:53:14.360 --> 01:53:19.720
 Just as a husband and someone who's on the road a lot and a dad, a little bit nervous

01:53:19.720 --> 01:53:23.160
 with bringing 500 to 1,000 more people into the area.

01:53:23.160 --> 01:53:27.440
 Not only is it maybe not the prettiest thing in the world to look at, but now you're increasing

01:53:27.440 --> 01:53:28.440
 the foot traffic.

01:53:28.440 --> 01:53:32.240
 I think the attainable housing thing is also another thing that concerns me.

01:53:32.240 --> 01:53:37.600
 I think that's maybe a valiant effort, but it's a little bit kind of a wordplay.

01:53:37.600 --> 01:53:42.680
 I don't think that attainable housing is necessarily for first responders or maybe teachers.

01:53:42.680 --> 01:53:46.120
 I know that was the other example that was put out there, but I've got a family full

01:53:46.120 --> 01:53:47.120
 of first responders.

01:53:47.120 --> 01:53:51.440
 When starting pay is at $80,000 to $90,000, I don't think that necessarily classifies

01:53:51.440 --> 01:53:54.940
 for the 50% annual median income and stuff like that.

01:53:54.940 --> 01:53:58.840
 I don't think that's ... I know it's been consistently like, "Hey, this is who's going

01:53:58.840 --> 01:53:59.840
 to be moving to the area."

01:53:59.840 --> 01:54:02.200
 I don't really think that's who it's going to be.

01:54:02.200 --> 01:54:08.040
 Just having a house here and having this capacity going to go right across our street, just

01:54:08.040 --> 01:54:11.400
 a little bit nervous with the security and the traffic and everything that else goes

01:54:11.400 --> 01:54:12.400
 with that.

01:54:12.400 --> 01:54:15.080
 Yeah, thank you for your time and I appreciate it.

01:54:15.080 --> 01:54:16.080
 Thank you.

01:54:16.080 --> 01:54:18.040
 Thank you for being here.

01:54:18.040 --> 01:54:23.280
 The next card I have is Anne Howlington.

01:54:23.280 --> 01:54:26.120
 Hi.

01:54:26.120 --> 01:54:33.200
 You'll state your name, your time will begin.

01:54:33.200 --> 01:54:36.880
 Good evening, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

01:54:36.880 --> 01:54:39.560
 Thank you for having this public hearing tonight.

01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:45.120
 My name is Anne Howlington and I am a long-time resident of the city of Denton.

01:54:45.120 --> 01:54:53.920
 I lived in the house on the property and raised my family there between 1988 and 1999.

01:54:53.920 --> 01:54:58.920
 We know the Jefferson North Elm project plan is to construct multi-family townhomes on

01:54:58.920 --> 01:55:03.560
 the southeast portion of the property at 2900 North Elm and to donate the rest of the land

01:55:03.560 --> 01:55:06.400
 to the city of Denton for a park.

01:55:06.400 --> 01:55:12.720
 We are not here to express opposition to this plan for zoning, yet I along with my family,

01:55:12.720 --> 01:55:17.800
 my friends, concerned citizens and interested organizations would like to propose a plan

01:55:17.800 --> 01:55:21.420
 for the park in sub-district B.

01:55:21.420 --> 01:55:27.960
 In your exhibition 10 related to this, note seven does state park dedication lot design

01:55:27.960 --> 01:55:33.900
 is conceptual in nature and will be finalized through the development agreement process.

01:55:33.900 --> 01:55:39.640
 We want to ensure that part of this process includes a meeting where we can propose our

01:55:39.640 --> 01:55:41.840
 ideas.

01:55:41.840 --> 01:55:47.240
 We will propose that the historic Evers country home, a large portion of which was constructed

01:55:47.240 --> 01:55:53.560
 over a hundred years ago, be preserved, not restored, but preserved with the additions

01:55:53.560 --> 01:55:59.040
 rather than removed and used for a horticultural native plant education center.

01:55:59.040 --> 01:56:04.880
 Here meetings, classes, workshops and demonstrations related to gardening and history could take

01:56:04.880 --> 01:56:06.120
 place.

01:56:06.120 --> 01:56:11.440
 The house with its historic water tower, windmill and barn could also serve as examples of early

01:56:11.440 --> 01:56:13.320
 20th century farm life.

01:56:13.320 --> 01:56:20.960
 Though still a concept, the park area on exhibit 11 shows these as being removed.

01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:24.800
 We would also like to see the creation of a community garden where citizens of Denton

01:56:24.800 --> 01:56:29.840
 could grow fruits, vegetables, plants and flowers in designated areas.

01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:34.720
 There are abundant sunny and shaded areas on the property for this.

01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:39.340
 We are discussing these ideas with some groups who do this type of work in the Denton city

01:56:39.340 --> 01:56:41.500
 and county area.

01:56:41.500 --> 01:56:46.920
 The Denton County Master Gardener Association is interested in supporting this idea.

01:56:46.920 --> 01:56:52.400
 We have also communicated with the Texas Native Plant Society's Trinity Forks chapter, the

01:56:52.400 --> 01:56:58.300
 Texas Master Naturalist Elm Fort chapter and the Petal Project.

01:56:58.300 --> 01:57:01.640
 These groups are all interested in learning more about the use of the property and its

01:57:01.640 --> 01:57:07.280
 existing structures, considering how the park might benefit their missions.

01:57:07.280 --> 01:57:14.540
 I have something here to give you, I am presenting each of you with a spreadsheet containing

01:57:14.540 --> 01:57:21.720
 186 names with 157 from Denton city residents who signed a petition supporting the effort

01:57:21.720 --> 01:57:27.560
 to help us convince the Denton city council to repurpose the Ebers Farm as a community

01:57:27.560 --> 01:57:29.360
 garden and education center.

01:57:29.360 --> 01:57:31.560
 Could someone pass these out?

01:57:31.560 --> 01:57:38.800
 You can go ahead and give them right there to Kathy, thank you.

01:57:38.800 --> 01:57:43.920
 These also include comments which are not always exactly what I would think, but we

01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:47.560
 gave them an opportunity to make comments on this.

01:57:47.560 --> 01:57:52.520
 In closing, we respectfully ask to schedule a meeting with the Denton Parks and Recreation

01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:57.440
 Department to further discuss this proposal for the parks development, including the fate

01:57:57.440 --> 01:58:03.400
 of the original home to provide, in keeping with their mission, educational opportunities

01:58:03.400 --> 01:58:06.120
 that support good stewardship of the environment.

01:58:06.120 --> 01:58:11.960
 If possible, we would like to visit the park area of the property to assess the feasibility

01:58:11.960 --> 01:58:14.840
 of using the land and its current structures.

01:58:14.840 --> 01:58:17.840
 Thank you for your time.

01:58:17.840 --> 01:58:21.200
 Thank you for being here.

01:58:21.200 --> 01:58:35.800
 The next card I have is Jennifer Lane.

01:58:35.800 --> 01:58:41.200
 I don't have any other cards wishing to speak, but is there anyone who would like to speak

01:58:41.200 --> 01:58:51.840
 who did not fill out a card?

01:58:51.840 --> 01:58:52.840
 Hi there.

01:58:52.840 --> 01:58:53.840
 If you'll give us your name, your time will begin.

01:58:53.840 --> 01:58:54.840
 Hi.

01:58:54.840 --> 01:59:01.120
 My name is Erin Elise, and I live in McKamey Evers, just off North Locust, and I'm a longtime

01:59:01.120 --> 01:59:05.560
 employee of the University of North Texas at the Mechanical and Energy Engineering Department,

01:59:05.560 --> 01:59:10.480
 and I have driven by this property every day going to work.

01:59:10.480 --> 01:59:16.760
 I would like to voice my support for JP and this building of the apartment complex.

01:59:16.760 --> 01:59:21.200
 I think it is the best use of this property that will preserve the most amount of the

01:59:21.200 --> 01:59:23.200
 land and the trees.

01:59:23.200 --> 01:59:27.240
 Sorry, nurse, speaker.

01:59:27.240 --> 01:59:32.600
 I think that if we move with a residential neighborhood going in there, it's going to

01:59:32.600 --> 01:59:38.040
 end up being what is what was built at the end of North Locust, which was very disappointing

01:59:38.040 --> 01:59:43.560
 to see the quality of those homes, and the fact that some have already caught fire since

01:59:43.560 --> 01:59:49.000
 their construction, and to have the thought that that's going to go in there is very disappointing

01:59:49.000 --> 01:59:52.480
 compared to what they have presented in to preserve.

01:59:52.480 --> 01:59:57.200
 I would like to say thank you so much.

01:59:57.200 --> 01:59:58.200
 Thank you.

01:59:58.200 --> 02:00:01.160
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

02:00:01.160 --> 02:00:03.080
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this?

02:00:03.080 --> 02:00:08.360
 Yes, come on down and you can fill out a card after.

02:00:08.360 --> 02:00:15.600
 Hi, Doc, how are you?

02:00:15.600 --> 02:00:16.600
 Hi.

02:00:16.600 --> 02:00:17.600
 My name is Dr. Sean Treat.

02:00:17.600 --> 02:00:20.280
 I did fill out a card probably for the wrong thing.

02:00:20.280 --> 02:00:21.760
 You know, I do have your card.

02:00:21.760 --> 02:00:23.760
 Did you mean it to me on this item?

02:00:23.760 --> 02:00:24.760
 I did.

02:00:24.760 --> 02:00:25.760
 Okay.

02:00:25.760 --> 02:00:26.760
 Very good.

02:00:26.760 --> 02:00:27.760
 Perfect.

02:00:27.760 --> 02:00:28.760
 I already said my name.

02:00:28.760 --> 02:00:29.760
 The clock started.

02:00:29.760 --> 02:00:30.760
 Who's on the ticker?

02:00:30.760 --> 02:00:31.760
 You go right ahead.

02:00:31.760 --> 02:00:32.760
 I also live in the neighborhood.

02:00:32.760 --> 02:00:38.040
 I drive by at Evers Park not just once a day, like two or three times a day because I'm

02:00:38.040 --> 02:00:40.640
 stupid like that.

02:00:40.640 --> 02:00:45.160
 One of the things that interests me about this, I've been going to the meetings since

02:00:45.160 --> 02:00:50.920
 the beginning and seeing it kind of progress and been going honestly to other community

02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:56.560
 meetings and seeing other things happening in other areas, right?

02:00:56.560 --> 02:00:58.280
 This plan sticks out to me.

02:00:58.280 --> 02:01:03.960
 I want to be in support of it because this is a unique partnership that I feel like kind

02:01:03.960 --> 02:01:06.600
 of hits all the right notes.

02:01:06.600 --> 02:01:13.180
 The fact that they're giving 50% back, 50% back, right?

02:01:13.180 --> 02:01:16.520
 And I understand the apartments are going to go up and go tall and we see the photos

02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:18.120
 and it looks a little grotesque.

02:01:18.120 --> 02:01:24.160
 I mean, I grew up on a farm myself and I see it go up and it's going to be tall, but think

02:01:24.160 --> 02:01:26.800
 about what's on the other side of that.

02:01:26.800 --> 02:01:28.120
 There's a park.

02:01:28.120 --> 02:01:30.080
 It'll be connected.

02:01:30.080 --> 02:01:36.720
 Also just on the other side of the North Branch Library, there's a huge green space and so

02:01:36.720 --> 02:01:42.680
 the possibility for connectivity to the city for bike trails, for walking, this is something

02:01:42.680 --> 02:01:51.680
 that I feel like is a very unique opportunity to think about in terms of creating a certain

02:01:51.680 --> 02:01:57.600
 attitude towards partnerships that I feel like is something that the city and this,

02:01:57.600 --> 02:02:03.120
 this council here can help encourage.

02:02:03.120 --> 02:02:09.880
 I've spoken recently with some very good friends about their concerns, about the romantic attachment

02:02:09.880 --> 02:02:12.520
 to the farm and the cattle.

02:02:12.520 --> 02:02:14.920
 I totally get that.

02:02:14.920 --> 02:02:18.360
 I love driving by and seeing the cattle.

02:02:18.360 --> 02:02:20.320
 Maybe we can have some cattle on the place.

02:02:20.320 --> 02:02:21.320
 I don't know.

02:02:21.320 --> 02:02:22.320
 I don't know.

02:02:22.320 --> 02:02:27.560
 But here's the point, like the decision that's going on tonight is what we're talking about

02:02:27.560 --> 02:02:34.400
 is to help rezone this so that they build it higher so that we have that green space.

02:02:34.400 --> 02:02:35.520
 That's the question here.

02:02:35.520 --> 02:02:38.860
 Now what happens with that green space once it goes to the city?

02:02:38.860 --> 02:02:41.440
 That's the other piece that I've seen that's very encouraging.

02:02:41.440 --> 02:02:49.560
 I think a citizen advisory council, this garden idea, I love this and that comes from the

02:02:49.560 --> 02:02:56.080
 community and that's the kind of partnerships I think that Denton needs to think about for

02:02:56.080 --> 02:02:58.340
 smart growth because we are growing.

02:02:58.340 --> 02:03:01.080
 We don't have a chance for my new neighbors that are coming.

02:03:01.080 --> 02:03:02.080
 Welcome.

02:03:02.080 --> 02:03:03.080
 Glad to see you here.

02:03:03.080 --> 02:03:08.520
 It took you this long to get here, but now you're going to be here for a bit, right?

02:03:08.520 --> 02:03:11.040
 But this is one of the things that comes with this price.

02:03:11.040 --> 02:03:12.320
 We are growing.

02:03:12.320 --> 02:03:19.720
 We've outgrown our projected growth for 10 years within seven years.

02:03:19.720 --> 02:03:21.460
 And we don't have enough affordable housing.

02:03:21.460 --> 02:03:27.000
 We've got to be doing some aggressive things, thinking about some progressive ways, some

02:03:27.000 --> 02:03:33.200
 interesting ways to grow it so that we can do it smart and we can do it with partnerships

02:03:33.200 --> 02:03:37.560
 and people that come in with the attitude towards, hey, we want to work with our community.

02:03:37.560 --> 02:03:40.880
 We want to work with the historic preservation officers.

02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:44.800
 And that to me is a model to follow.

02:03:44.800 --> 02:03:45.800
 So thank you.

02:03:45.800 --> 02:03:46.800
 Those are my thoughts.

02:03:46.800 --> 02:03:47.800
 I support the project.

02:03:47.800 --> 02:03:52.120
 Thank you so much, Dr. Trink.

02:03:52.120 --> 02:03:59.040
 Anyone else wishing to speak on this who has not already?

02:03:59.040 --> 02:04:00.400
 I do have a card.

02:04:00.400 --> 02:04:04.560
 I'll just read for the record they are not wishing to speak but are in support, and that

02:04:04.560 --> 02:04:10.280
 is Brenda Stevens.

02:04:10.280 --> 02:04:17.720
 I think before I close the public hearing, I have a question for probably the applicant.

02:04:17.720 --> 02:04:24.280
 And it has to do with the park and the partnership, or maybe that is the question for you.

02:04:24.280 --> 02:04:25.800
 I'm not sure.

02:04:25.800 --> 02:04:34.680
 But there's nothing in this PD as it's written now on the portion that would be the multifamily.

02:04:34.680 --> 02:04:39.640
 Well, actually, no, the PD as a whole, the PD standards.

02:04:39.640 --> 02:04:44.760
 There's nothing written about how that park is going to be developed, right?

02:04:44.760 --> 02:04:49.860
 It has the minimum, which is essentially the trail, the Evers Memorial, and benches and

02:04:49.860 --> 02:04:51.200
 things like that throughout the park.

02:04:51.200 --> 02:04:55.960
 So it has that minimum, but everything else, essentially, that can be worked through.

02:04:55.960 --> 02:04:59.720
 It can be worked through with parks and the developer through additional public engagement,

02:04:59.720 --> 02:05:02.200
 and then it will go to the parks board, and then it will go to city council.

02:05:02.200 --> 02:05:06.080
 So there's only the bare minimum that's in there right now, and anything else that comes

02:05:06.080 --> 02:05:07.240
 up could be added.

02:05:07.240 --> 02:05:12.160
 And I guess why I'm asking that is just because of things we heard tonight that we do want

02:05:12.160 --> 02:05:17.120
 community involvement, but how do we make sure that the community gets involved in it,

02:05:17.120 --> 02:05:22.240
 and that it just doesn't become something that the city just develops and takes before

02:05:22.240 --> 02:05:25.920
 council and it gets approved, and there actually isn't any collaboration, and we can't get

02:05:25.920 --> 02:05:27.240
 these great ideas.

02:05:27.240 --> 02:05:29.600
 So that's where my question is coming from.

02:05:29.600 --> 02:05:30.600
 Tina, would you speak?

02:05:30.600 --> 02:05:34.560
 So I'll answer that, and not to rat him out, but he's sitting in the back row up there

02:05:34.560 --> 02:05:35.880
 at the top at that desk.

02:05:35.880 --> 02:05:36.880
 I do see.

02:05:36.880 --> 02:05:41.280
 So that's Gary Pack and our parks director, and I'm sure Gary has heard the message this

02:05:41.280 --> 02:05:45.480
 evening of the strong interest for community engagement.

02:05:45.480 --> 02:05:50.080
 From what I know with Gary, and you can either shake your head yes or no to tell me if I'm

02:05:50.080 --> 02:05:53.800
 wrong, but what I've learned with Gary and his team is that they are very collaborative

02:05:53.800 --> 02:05:55.940
 when they've done parks projects.

02:05:55.940 --> 02:06:00.400
 They do seek public feedback related to that, and Gary, I don't know if you want to expand

02:06:00.400 --> 02:06:03.360
 on some of the methods that you've done on some other parks where you've engaged the

02:06:03.360 --> 02:06:04.360
 public.

02:06:04.360 --> 02:06:05.360
 Hi, Gary.

02:06:05.360 --> 02:06:10.760
 Good evening, Gary Pack, and Director of Parks and Recreation.

02:06:10.760 --> 02:06:14.520
 When we go through the development process for a park property, we typically have at

02:06:14.520 --> 02:06:17.240
 least two meetings with the public.

02:06:17.240 --> 02:06:22.120
 One at the very beginning, we'll develop a concept, just get some ideas on paper, share

02:06:22.120 --> 02:06:27.200
 with the community, get more feedback, go back, sharpen the pencil, move things around,

02:06:27.200 --> 02:06:33.000
 add, delete, and then come back when that's done, get their final feedback.

02:06:33.000 --> 02:06:35.480
 Then we take it to park board, get them to approve it.

02:06:35.480 --> 02:06:39.740
 We go to them twice, and then we'll take it to city council for official adoption.

02:06:39.740 --> 02:06:45.160
 Then we'll move into construction drawings, and then construction at some point in time,

02:06:45.160 --> 02:06:48.160
 pending funding availability.

02:06:48.160 --> 02:06:51.560
 That's our standard process that we follow with park development.

02:06:51.560 --> 02:06:59.320
 Right, so I mean, I'm looking at this as a little bit more unique of a piece, I guess,

02:06:59.320 --> 02:07:02.440
 because then what you're saying is you're basically going to come up with a concept

02:07:02.440 --> 02:07:06.120
 and then bring that out to the public to look at it.

02:07:06.120 --> 02:07:07.120
 So that's not really collaboration.

02:07:07.120 --> 02:07:08.960
 I mean, it is, but it isn't.

02:07:08.960 --> 02:07:15.000
 Well, the concept is just to have something to talk about, saying here's the property.

02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:20.120
 It's a pencil sketch, for the most part, with lines on an aerial, saying that we could do

02:07:20.120 --> 02:07:25.800
 a trail here, we could put a parking lot here, a playground here, and then use that to create

02:07:25.800 --> 02:07:26.800
 the discussion.

02:07:26.800 --> 02:07:27.800
 What's feasible, I see.

02:07:27.800 --> 02:07:28.800
 Okay.

02:07:28.800 --> 02:07:29.800
 Thank you.

02:07:29.800 --> 02:07:30.800
 I think we might have a question for you.

02:07:30.800 --> 02:07:31.800
 Commissioner Thacker?

02:07:31.800 --> 02:07:34.600
 Thank you, Chair.

02:07:34.600 --> 02:07:37.000
 My question is for the developer representative.

02:07:37.000 --> 02:07:38.480
 Oh, it's not for Gary?

02:07:38.480 --> 02:07:39.480
 No.

02:07:39.480 --> 02:07:40.480
 Okay.

02:07:40.480 --> 02:07:41.480
 Sorry.

02:07:41.480 --> 02:07:42.480
 Gary, thank you very much.

02:07:42.480 --> 02:07:43.480
 I appreciate it.

02:07:43.480 --> 02:07:44.480
 I'll let you off the hook, Gary.

02:07:44.480 --> 02:07:45.480
 Okay.

02:07:45.480 --> 02:07:48.400
 Yeah, go ahead.

02:07:48.400 --> 02:07:51.800
 It seems based on your presentation that you all have obviously done a lot of projects

02:07:51.800 --> 02:07:53.860
 particularly in the area.

02:07:53.860 --> 02:07:58.640
 Have you all acquired a property of this likeness?

02:07:58.640 --> 02:08:04.160
 And if you have, can you tell us where it is so that we might look how this all played

02:08:04.160 --> 02:08:07.120
 out in that particular scenario?

02:08:07.120 --> 02:08:11.040
 This is actually the first property we've done like this with this much park land, which

02:08:11.040 --> 02:08:16.800
 is why I've been so trying to collaborate with the neighbors as much as possible because

02:08:16.800 --> 02:08:20.440
 we need the ideas, too, since this is the first time we're doing it.

02:08:20.440 --> 02:08:24.240
 But also, that's answering your question and going to answer your question at the same

02:08:24.240 --> 02:08:25.240
 time.

02:08:25.240 --> 02:08:26.240
 Cool.

02:08:26.240 --> 02:08:31.520
 For parks, in order to dedicate it to the city, obviously the PD will say that nothing

02:08:31.520 --> 02:08:34.160
 can go there as far as nothing can be built there.

02:08:34.160 --> 02:08:38.080
 But as far as dedicating it to the city, part of that process is the developers agreement.

02:08:38.080 --> 02:08:42.560
 So if we want to dedicate it to parks department, we can only do that with the developers agreement.

02:08:42.560 --> 02:08:48.840
 So that can't really start until post-zoning, which is why the plan right now is conceptual.

02:08:48.840 --> 02:08:52.840
 And we're happy to, obviously, the ideas tonight have been great and the other ideas that we've

02:08:52.840 --> 02:08:57.320
 heard from neighbors have been great, and we want to collaborate and we want to have

02:08:57.320 --> 02:08:58.520
 as many meetings as possible.

02:08:58.520 --> 02:09:03.900
 So we're happy to put in a minimal amount of meetings in the PD to meet with neighbors

02:09:03.900 --> 02:09:05.760
 in order to get those ideas.

02:09:05.760 --> 02:09:11.100
 Obviously, not everyone's idea is going to be able to go into it, but we at least want

02:09:11.100 --> 02:09:15.080
 to collaborate as much as possible and kind of, I don't want to say be hands off on it,

02:09:15.080 --> 02:09:19.800
 but allow the city and the neighbors to kind of tell us what they want it to be.

02:09:19.800 --> 02:09:24.680
 - I have two more questions, sorry.

02:09:24.680 --> 02:09:29.680
 I noticed in the backup that it said that you all were planning on or had projected

02:09:29.680 --> 02:09:34.400
 that you would be maintaining up to 52% of the trees that are currently there.

02:09:34.400 --> 02:09:37.520
 Do you all have any plans to plant more trees?

02:09:37.520 --> 02:09:40.400
 - Yeah, there's trees being planted throughout the development.

02:09:40.400 --> 02:09:44.560
 And then also that's another thing that's great about the developers agreement is we

02:09:44.560 --> 02:09:48.560
 can, and I've talked to Sean about this as well, we can plant more trees within the park

02:09:48.560 --> 02:09:55.920
 too and get an arborist or a tree, Haywood, I forget his last name, but he's a city tree

02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:56.920
 guy.

02:09:56.920 --> 02:09:59.760
 But we can get him out there and kind of tell us where we would be able to plant trees that

02:09:59.760 --> 02:10:05.200
 will still survive and yeah, go through that whole process.

02:10:05.200 --> 02:10:10.760
 - And finally, I know that because this is kind of a smaller niche little area, obviously

02:10:10.760 --> 02:10:14.880
 one of the big concerns is safety and security.

02:10:14.880 --> 02:10:20.720
 What type of safety and security systems do you all have for that particular property?

02:10:20.720 --> 02:10:25.080
 So do you have someone that works the nights and kind of rotates through?

02:10:25.080 --> 02:10:30.120
 Do you have particular cameras, lighting that's like making sure that not only the property

02:10:30.120 --> 02:10:33.520
 itself is safe, but their community around it is safe as well?

02:10:33.520 --> 02:10:37.240
 - Yes, so cameras on the property, lights on the property.

02:10:37.240 --> 02:10:42.880
 We have a security person there at all hours, but I would say one of the biggest things

02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:48.280
 for safety too is no one really ever thinks about it, but whenever you apply for an apartment,

02:10:48.280 --> 02:10:51.160
 you have to go through a background check, a credit check, and an income verification

02:10:51.160 --> 02:10:52.160
 check.

02:10:52.160 --> 02:10:56.560
 So you actually know more about the renter coming into your building than you do about

02:10:56.560 --> 02:10:59.080
 your neighbor that you're buying a house next to.

02:10:59.080 --> 02:11:02.880
 So there is a lot of background checks that go into it because obviously we don't want

02:11:02.880 --> 02:11:05.000
 the apartment to go downhill either.

02:11:05.000 --> 02:11:07.360
 We don't want crime in the apartment either.

02:11:07.360 --> 02:11:13.900
 So we have to do the background checks and then the income verification then decides

02:11:13.900 --> 02:11:14.900
 which tranche they fit into.

02:11:14.900 --> 02:11:18.480
 Are they the market rate renter, are they 80% renter, are they the 50% renter, and then

02:11:18.480 --> 02:11:19.480
 the credit check.

02:11:19.480 --> 02:11:20.480
 Are they going to be able to make their payments?

02:11:20.480 --> 02:11:23.920
 Because obviously we want people to make their payments.

02:11:23.920 --> 02:11:29.520
 And sorry, I'm going to talk a little longer because I'm thinking of the AMIs and that

02:11:29.520 --> 02:11:34.800
 kind of segues into one of the comments earlier about service workers and firefighters and

02:11:34.800 --> 02:11:40.920
 policemen making about 80 grand a year, that actually fits into the 80% because 80% AMI

02:11:40.920 --> 02:11:45.640
 is roughly around 80 to $85,000 a year, so they would fit into that.

02:11:45.640 --> 02:11:51.160
 And then the 50% is kind of more your teachers and people making about 50, 55,000 a year.

02:11:51.160 --> 02:11:53.400
 So it's still not low, low, low income.

02:11:53.400 --> 02:11:58.580
 It's just low salary or a new job or teacher, nurses.

02:11:58.580 --> 02:12:04.440
 So I know I added to that answer, but I wanted to get that out there too.

02:12:04.440 --> 02:12:05.440
 Thank you.

02:12:05.440 --> 02:12:06.440
 Thank you.

02:12:06.440 --> 02:12:07.440
 Thank you.

02:12:07.440 --> 02:12:08.440
 Commissioner Pruitt, is that for the applicant?

02:12:08.440 --> 02:12:09.440
 Yeah.

02:12:09.440 --> 02:12:10.440
 Thank you.

02:12:10.440 --> 02:12:11.440
 Okay.

02:12:11.440 --> 02:12:12.440
 Sorry.

02:12:12.440 --> 02:12:16.000
 All of my questions are actually for staff, so if you want.

02:12:16.000 --> 02:12:17.000
 Okay.

02:12:17.000 --> 02:12:18.000
 Very good.

02:12:18.000 --> 02:12:19.000
 We'll hold off on that just a second.

02:12:19.000 --> 02:12:20.000
 Okay.

02:12:20.000 --> 02:12:21.000
 Thank you very much.

02:12:21.000 --> 02:12:22.000
 Thank you.

02:12:22.000 --> 02:12:23.000
 Thank you.

02:12:23.000 --> 02:12:24.000
 For answering the questions.

02:12:24.000 --> 02:12:25.000
 I have not closed the public hearing.

02:12:25.000 --> 02:12:28.360
 I'm about to, but is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not already spoken?

02:12:28.360 --> 02:12:30.560
 Okay.

02:12:30.560 --> 02:12:33.800
 Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and I will open the floor for

02:12:33.800 --> 02:12:35.480
 discussion or a motion.

02:12:35.480 --> 02:12:39.240
 So Commissioner Pruitt, I will call back on you and probably ...

02:12:39.240 --> 02:12:40.240
 Thank you.

02:12:40.240 --> 02:12:41.240
 Yeah.

02:12:41.240 --> 02:12:42.240
 Have Ashley come forward?

02:12:42.240 --> 02:12:43.240
 Probably Ashley.

02:12:43.240 --> 02:12:44.240
 Okay.

02:12:44.240 --> 02:12:45.240
 At least for the first couple.

02:12:45.240 --> 02:12:46.240
 Okay.

02:12:46.240 --> 02:12:50.980
 First of all, I want to thank staff.

02:12:50.980 --> 02:12:57.040
 In my opinion, the vast majority of projects that come before us, especially for zoning

02:12:57.040 --> 02:13:02.440
 changes, have some conflicting portions of the comprehensive plan.

02:13:02.440 --> 02:13:08.120
 And almost all the time, that question is answered by there are no conflicting sections.

02:13:08.120 --> 02:13:12.040
 So I want to thank staff and give you your due credit for admitting it.

02:13:12.040 --> 02:13:17.640
 I think that helps this board focus on the trade-offs that we are making, as opposed

02:13:17.640 --> 02:13:20.980
 to being confused and not knowing what to focus on.

02:13:20.980 --> 02:13:25.120
 So thank you for that.

02:13:25.120 --> 02:13:29.680
 As I'm thinking about this area, there's a library across the street.

02:13:29.680 --> 02:13:32.080
 There's a elementary school to the north.

02:13:32.080 --> 02:13:38.880
 There's a middle school just east of the library.

02:13:38.880 --> 02:13:47.640
 The strip to the south along Elman Locust, I think, is one of the corridors of that MN-zoned

02:13:47.640 --> 02:13:52.360
 area that could grow into a neighborhood shop kind of thing.

02:13:52.360 --> 02:13:59.120
 Is there any other infill property that has those characteristics that you can think of?

02:13:59.120 --> 02:14:06.200
 It just seems very unique to me in its placement and its ability to be that type of place.

02:14:06.200 --> 02:14:08.720
 I can't think of any off the top of my head.

02:14:08.720 --> 02:14:10.320
 It does seem unique.

02:14:10.320 --> 02:14:12.720
 Everything about this property that I say seems unique.

02:14:12.720 --> 02:14:16.200
 I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is similar to this.

02:14:16.200 --> 02:14:17.200
 Okay.

02:14:17.200 --> 02:14:18.200
 Thank you.

02:14:18.200 --> 02:14:28.960
 The fiscal impact study, and if we don't know, that's okay, we can move forward.

02:14:28.960 --> 02:14:37.460
 I don't fully understand the agreements that get made when there are projects with some

02:14:37.460 --> 02:14:48.280
 affordability or public-private partnership with DHA or another entity.

02:14:48.280 --> 02:14:56.080
 Are the proposed, if it does go forward with the 80% and the 50% units, and that involves

02:14:56.080 --> 02:15:04.120
 some partnership with DHA, does that fiscal impact summary comprehend whatever tax abatements

02:15:04.120 --> 02:15:05.120
 would occur?

02:15:05.120 --> 02:15:06.120
 It does not.

02:15:06.120 --> 02:15:08.600
 I would like to take that into consideration.

02:15:08.600 --> 02:15:09.600
 Okay.

02:15:09.600 --> 02:15:10.600
 Thank you.

02:15:10.600 --> 02:15:22.840
 The internal circulation patterns, as I look at the site plan, I don't see the fence that's

02:15:22.840 --> 02:15:29.880
 proposed completely encircling the area, but I also don't see anything specifically called

02:15:29.880 --> 02:15:33.280
 out as a public access easement.

02:15:33.280 --> 02:15:40.120
 What I'm asking, I guess, is are we sure that there's going to be a convenient path if someone

02:15:40.120 --> 02:15:46.120
 does choose to ride a bicycle or walk through this property to access the 10 acres that's

02:15:46.120 --> 02:15:52.600
 being donated in order to get there without walking around the entire circumference of

02:15:52.600 --> 02:15:53.600
 the block?

02:15:53.600 --> 02:15:57.640
 Are you saying to walk through the multifamily development?

02:15:57.640 --> 02:16:02.320
 Yeah, like from the library to go have lunch over there or something.

02:16:02.320 --> 02:16:04.040
 That will not be for public access.

02:16:04.040 --> 02:16:05.040
 Okay.

02:16:05.040 --> 02:16:08.280
 In order, if you're coming from the library in order to get to the park from there, you

02:16:08.280 --> 02:16:13.480
 would cross locus and then walk on the side path to the park, but the multifamily development

02:16:13.480 --> 02:16:16.640
 in itself is not open for public access.

02:16:16.640 --> 02:16:18.680
 Okay.

02:16:18.680 --> 02:16:24.040
 I think one for traffic and one for parks, if Gary is still here.

02:16:24.040 --> 02:16:25.040
 Gary is still here.

02:16:25.040 --> 02:16:29.760
 Gary's up front, so I'll ask that first.

02:16:29.760 --> 02:16:34.000
 I know several comments were made about a 10 minute walk to a park.

02:16:34.000 --> 02:16:40.940
 Obviously, the history of this property was probably before you came to the city yourself.

02:16:40.940 --> 02:16:48.240
 It strikes me as if we're going to add 450 homes here, in some sense, that's putting

02:16:48.240 --> 02:16:53.560
 450 more homes immediately next to a park.

02:16:53.560 --> 02:16:59.160
 While you might not be doing that by buying parkland, you're doing it by getting it developed

02:16:59.160 --> 02:17:02.320
 and bringing homes closer to the park.

02:17:02.320 --> 02:17:04.080
 Is that a reasonable way to think about it?

02:17:04.080 --> 02:17:09.220
 Is that a benefit as far as when we do our surveys to understand how many of our residents

02:17:09.220 --> 02:17:11.960
 have good access to a park?

02:17:11.960 --> 02:17:20.600
 That increases our public access to the park percentage across the city just by infill.

02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:21.600
 That does occur.

02:17:21.600 --> 02:17:27.040
 Obviously, the other way is for us to buy property and develop a park where there is

02:17:27.040 --> 02:17:33.640
 no park in one of our hot spots where we're trying to fill in that, so yes, that is accurate.

02:17:33.640 --> 02:17:43.880
 Would it be fair to say that the price of land to create a park immediately near 450

02:17:43.880 --> 02:17:54.000
 homes would be rather high due to the types of places that that multifamily is developed?

02:17:54.000 --> 02:18:03.280
 A neighborhood park of a couple acres is roughly $1.5 million at this point in time.

02:18:03.280 --> 02:18:04.280
 That can vary.

02:18:04.280 --> 02:18:08.160
 If you put a splash pad in, it's going to be a lot more, probably add another million

02:18:08.160 --> 02:18:10.040
 dollars to it from that perspective.

02:18:10.040 --> 02:18:14.080
 So they are costly even though they're small.

02:18:14.080 --> 02:18:15.080
 Thank you.

02:18:15.080 --> 02:18:29.040
 In traffic, I guess I'm confused at the purpose of the second southbound lane because as I

02:18:29.040 --> 02:18:36.000
 look at the development plan which shows that lane, basically the southbound traffic starts

02:18:36.000 --> 02:18:41.840
 as one lane, widens into two, and then as you get down to the next intersection, both

02:18:41.840 --> 02:18:47.920
 lanes are forced to merge into a single lane to turn right on that little go-between between

02:18:47.920 --> 02:18:49.640
 Elm and Locust.

02:18:49.640 --> 02:18:55.640
 Help me understand how that second lane helps the flow and people's everyday lives.

02:18:55.640 --> 02:19:02.840
 The southbound lane on, good evening Chair and Commissioners, Farhan Butt, Deputy Director,

02:19:02.840 --> 02:19:04.760
 Transportation Services Division.

02:19:04.760 --> 02:19:07.360
 So southbound lane on North Locust.

02:19:07.360 --> 02:19:09.320
 Yes, that's correct.

02:19:09.320 --> 02:19:15.640
 So this will be on North Locust will have full access.

02:19:15.640 --> 02:19:21.040
 So that full access means that there will be left turns, there will be right turns as

02:19:21.040 --> 02:19:25.160
 well and there will be traffic coming out and going again.

02:19:25.160 --> 02:19:33.480
 So that southbound lane will facilitate any traffic increase or growth because of this

02:19:33.480 --> 02:19:34.480
 development.

02:19:34.480 --> 02:19:42.200
 Okay, so if I'm imagining I'm living there and I'm coming out eastward and I turn right

02:19:42.200 --> 02:19:51.640
 to go south on Locust, then it would essentially allow more ease of access so that I don't

02:19:51.640 --> 02:19:55.600
 have to wait quite as long with other traffic coming southbound?

02:19:55.600 --> 02:19:56.600
 Absolutely.

02:19:56.600 --> 02:19:57.600
 Okay.

02:19:57.600 --> 02:19:58.600
 Thank you.

02:19:58.600 --> 02:19:59.600
 That's all.

02:19:59.600 --> 02:20:00.600
 Thank you.

02:20:00.600 --> 02:20:01.600
 Thanks.

02:20:01.600 --> 02:20:02.600
 Thank you.

02:20:02.600 --> 02:20:04.840
 Any questions?

02:20:04.840 --> 02:20:13.840
 We can continue discussion or we can entertain our motion.

02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:14.840
 Commissioner Pruitt?

02:20:14.840 --> 02:20:17.840
 Yeah, I'll move approval.

02:20:17.840 --> 02:20:23.240
 I think when we talk about infill, this is what it means.

02:20:23.240 --> 02:20:29.120
 It doesn't mean that everybody gets the type of candy they want from the candy store, but

02:20:29.120 --> 02:20:40.880
 it means that our town gets to put more kids, more people next to the great amenities like

02:20:40.880 --> 02:20:45.640
 the park and the library that we've already invested millions of dollars in.

02:20:45.640 --> 02:20:46.640
 Right?

02:20:46.640 --> 02:20:47.640
 Yeah.

02:20:47.640 --> 02:20:50.920
 So I'll move approval.

02:20:50.920 --> 02:20:52.400
 Thank you.

02:20:52.400 --> 02:20:56.360
 I'll go ahead and second.

02:20:56.360 --> 02:21:04.480
 I think this is a difficult piece of property to have this discussion because of its history,

02:21:04.480 --> 02:21:06.720
 because of what it means and what it has meant.

02:21:06.720 --> 02:21:14.600
 I think that was illustrated by many people, including the applicant, in sharing what this

02:21:14.600 --> 02:21:15.760
 property has meant.

02:21:15.760 --> 02:21:20.880
 I think a great deal of thought has gone into this.

02:21:20.880 --> 02:21:23.360
 Neighborhood engagement has gone into this.

02:21:23.360 --> 02:21:28.520
 This property can be developed right now, so it's not that it's unzoned now.

02:21:28.520 --> 02:21:38.120
 I think what this plan gives is that significant preservation on the site.

02:21:38.120 --> 02:21:45.400
 It gives that community engagement to work with the city on what this parkland is going

02:21:45.400 --> 02:21:50.440
 to be so that we can preserve the history that we can preserve.

02:21:50.440 --> 02:21:55.300
 We may not have everything that we want, like the house that is open to the public.

02:21:55.300 --> 02:22:02.480
 That just may not be feasible, it just can't be done, but what can we do to preserve that

02:22:02.480 --> 02:22:09.000
 history the best we can and offer that to the community going forward?

02:22:09.000 --> 02:22:18.960
 It does seem to just work with housing options, with the tiered rent idea and giving people

02:22:18.960 --> 02:22:27.000
 the opportunity to live so close to downtown and be able to walk to the library and walk

02:22:27.000 --> 02:22:32.240
 to schools and walk to what our great city has to offer downtown.

02:22:32.240 --> 02:22:39.680
 It just gives that option that there are just not very many to offer in the area.

02:22:39.680 --> 02:22:43.840
 I will happily second.

02:22:43.840 --> 02:22:47.140
 We've got a first and a second for approval, so we can certainly open the floor for more

02:22:47.140 --> 02:22:51.480
 discussion or a vote.

02:22:51.480 --> 02:22:52.480
 Commissioner Villarreal.

02:22:52.480 --> 02:22:53.600
 Thank you, Chair.

02:22:53.600 --> 02:22:58.920
 Thank you, 97 Land Company and the applicant for everything you're doing to reach an agreement

02:22:58.920 --> 02:22:59.920
 with the community.

02:22:59.920 --> 02:23:06.160
 I really appreciate the park idea, the amount of land you all are dedicating for Parkland.

02:23:06.160 --> 02:23:13.480
 I would like us to try to incorporate some of the Evers Farm community garden ideas that

02:23:13.480 --> 02:23:16.640
 have come forward from the neighborhood, from the folks here in Denton.

02:23:16.640 --> 02:23:20.000
 I think that would be the best way to pursue this.

02:23:20.000 --> 02:23:24.400
 I would like to see perhaps a way for us to include some of the structure at the very

02:23:24.400 --> 02:23:26.560
 least.

02:23:26.560 --> 02:23:29.600
 This is a very difficult vote.

02:23:29.600 --> 02:23:33.800
 I do appreciate the amount of work you all did to reach where we're at currently, but

02:23:33.800 --> 02:23:35.600
 at this current point, I'm going to vote now.

02:23:35.600 --> 02:23:36.600
 Thank you.

02:23:36.600 --> 02:23:37.600
 Commissioner Thagard.

02:23:37.600 --> 02:23:38.600
 Thank you, Chair.

02:23:38.600 --> 02:23:48.960
 I wanted to echo what you said, Chair, and just kind of there's a lot of different people

02:23:48.960 --> 02:23:52.360
 that could develop this land a completely different way.

02:23:52.360 --> 02:23:58.200
 I feel like, no offense to JPI, this is like the devil we know versus the devil we don't.

02:23:58.200 --> 02:24:03.040
 I am one of the people that can honestly say I don't want any more apartments either.

02:24:03.040 --> 02:24:09.220
 I think in this particular situation, we have an investor that's not only investing in the

02:24:09.220 --> 02:24:16.520
 property itself, but also in our opinion and in our community and in terms of the gardens

02:24:16.520 --> 02:24:21.200
 or even our parks department, what they may have to offer in terms of, like you said,

02:24:21.200 --> 02:24:24.640
 Chair, preserving the things that we do love about the city.

02:24:24.640 --> 02:24:27.360
 So, yeah, I'm voting in favor.

02:24:27.360 --> 02:24:28.360
 Thank you.

02:24:28.360 --> 02:24:29.360
 Thank you.

02:24:29.360 --> 02:24:30.360
 Commissioner Cool.

02:24:30.360 --> 02:24:33.520
 Thank you, Chair.

02:24:33.520 --> 02:24:40.120
 I really appreciate with the applicant 97 land, you always do a great job.

02:24:40.120 --> 02:24:45.640
 Great job outreach, great job working with staff, great job staff.

02:24:45.640 --> 02:24:49.520
 This is a unique piece of property.

02:24:49.520 --> 02:24:57.040
 I never thought in my life here that I would see four apartment complexes cross-race play

02:24:57.040 --> 02:25:02.000
 little league baseball.

02:25:02.000 --> 02:25:06.760
 The fear is, okay, if we don't go for the apartments, they're going to put two homes

02:25:06.760 --> 02:25:08.560
 per acre and level everything.

02:25:08.560 --> 02:25:10.600
 I doubt it.

02:25:10.600 --> 02:25:14.300
 I don't think they will.

02:25:14.300 --> 02:25:20.680
 You hear that a lot and I've been on this dais for, what, six years.

02:25:20.680 --> 02:25:25.720
 There's always, I'm going to build up this beautiful Dairy Queen hot fudge sundae and

02:25:25.720 --> 02:25:34.560
 it's going to have a massive, beautiful cherry on top, but don't look over here.

02:25:34.560 --> 02:25:41.720
 I believe in people's property rights as strong as anyone, but I also know they're not going

02:25:41.720 --> 02:25:49.120
 to put single family homes there, it's not going to do it.

02:25:49.120 --> 02:25:53.760
 The applicant should be able to develop that property.

02:25:53.760 --> 02:26:02.200
 I just, in my heart of hearts, cannot go for this apartment.

02:26:02.200 --> 02:26:07.120
 If we gave every property owner a dent in carte blanche, then every square foot of this

02:26:07.120 --> 02:26:10.200
 town is going to be an apartment complex.

02:26:10.200 --> 02:26:11.200
 Why?

02:26:11.200 --> 02:26:13.600
 Because that's the money.

02:26:13.600 --> 02:26:17.520
 That's the money.

02:26:17.520 --> 02:26:24.320
 Let everything else be damned, you know.

02:26:24.320 --> 02:26:28.880
 I've seen a lot of change here.

02:26:28.880 --> 02:26:37.720
 I've had my heart broken a thousand times seeing things that are gone.

02:26:37.720 --> 02:26:42.940
 You know, I tore around there.

02:26:42.940 --> 02:26:46.960
 There are ways to do, I'm for developing that property.

02:26:46.960 --> 02:26:55.680
 That's fine, but for apartment complexes, it's a bridge too far for me.

02:26:55.680 --> 02:27:03.200
 And I think this threat of two homes per acre is a threat.

02:27:03.200 --> 02:27:08.640
 It makes you go, "Oh, well, I better go to this because they're going to do this."

02:27:08.640 --> 02:27:13.920
 I've heard it 100 times in six years up here.

02:27:13.920 --> 02:27:17.840
 So I can't support this.

02:27:17.840 --> 02:27:29.080
 And I would love to see it develop sometime, but for apartment complexes, I can't do it.

02:27:29.080 --> 02:27:30.080
 Okay.

02:27:30.080 --> 02:27:33.420
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

02:27:33.420 --> 02:27:35.560
 Is there any further discussion?

02:27:35.560 --> 02:27:37.000
 Okay.

02:27:37.000 --> 02:27:51.000
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

02:27:51.000 --> 02:27:54.920
 That motion will carry with a majority of three, two, and it will move forward then

02:27:54.920 --> 02:27:59.720
 to city council on October 15th.

02:27:59.720 --> 02:28:02.080
 Okay.

02:28:02.080 --> 02:28:04.600
 That will take us to our final public hearing this evening.

02:28:04.600 --> 02:28:09.240
 That is 5BZ240002.

02:28:09.240 --> 02:28:14.520
 I will go ahead and open the public hearing, and Erin is here for presentation.

02:28:14.520 --> 02:28:36.960
 Yeah, if you'll just give it a minute to while we let the chambers empty.

02:28:36.960 --> 02:28:55.240
 Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

02:28:55.240 --> 02:29:01.160
 This is Z24-0002, Mockingbird Lane rezoning.

02:29:01.160 --> 02:29:07.060
 So this is a request to rezone approximately 2.6 acres from R2 to R4.

02:29:07.060 --> 02:29:13.640
 The property is located generally south of Audre Lane and east of Mockingbird, and is

02:29:13.640 --> 02:29:19.160
 undeveloped and has been undeveloped since annexation in 1960.

02:29:19.160 --> 02:29:24.720
 And before I get into the previous actions taken, here is the current zoning and the

02:29:24.720 --> 02:29:26.520
 requested zoning.

02:29:26.520 --> 02:29:36.160
 And some of the differences here, the current zoning, R2, has a lot size of 16,000 square

02:29:36.160 --> 02:29:42.240
 feet, and the requested zoning has a minimum lot size of 7,000 square feet.

02:29:42.240 --> 02:29:50.520
 And some of the different uses allowed, predominantly both of these zoning districts are for single

02:29:50.520 --> 02:29:53.000
 family uses.

02:29:53.000 --> 02:30:00.480
 The R4 district would allow, with a specific use permit, town homes, duplexes, administrative,

02:30:00.480 --> 02:30:03.920
 professional, and government offices, and bed and breakfasts.

02:30:03.920 --> 02:30:10.320
 Again, those are with specific use permits, none of those would be permitted by right.

02:30:10.320 --> 02:30:17.640
 So this request has come before this body before, under a different applicant and owner.

02:30:17.640 --> 02:30:26.280
 In 2019, they did come before you with the same rezoning request, just exactly how you

02:30:26.280 --> 02:30:31.080
 see it today, except they had a proposed site plan with it.

02:30:31.080 --> 02:30:37.400
 Then it did come back with several reiterations of overlay districts, restricting to single

02:30:37.400 --> 02:30:45.760
 family and then restricting the number of lots, taking out the duplexes in town homes.

02:30:45.760 --> 02:30:51.440
 But ultimately, it never went to council for final approval, given some of the discussions

02:30:51.440 --> 02:30:59.040
 that were had with the Planning and Zoning Commission and neighbors' comments.

02:30:59.040 --> 02:31:05.160
 So staff did review this request, independent from the past, based on our development code,

02:31:05.160 --> 02:31:10.920
 the criteria for all applications, as well as the rezoning criteria, and found that it

02:31:10.920 --> 02:31:16.920
 is consistent with the goals and policies of the future land use map from the 2040 Comprehensive

02:31:16.920 --> 02:31:23.480
 Plan, as well as the proposed zoning purpose statement for R4.

02:31:23.480 --> 02:31:28.800
 No development is planned at this time, and when they come back for development, they

02:31:28.800 --> 02:31:35.360
 will be required to comply with all DDC and other criteria, and this rezoning is not expected

02:31:35.360 --> 02:31:43.800
 to generate significant adverse environmental infrastructure or fiscal impacts.

02:31:43.800 --> 02:31:50.600
 The purpose statement of the proposed zoning district, R4, is shown here, and this request

02:31:50.600 --> 02:31:55.600
 is consistent with the purpose statement, as the area is already residential and serves

02:31:55.600 --> 02:32:00.520
 as a transition area between higher density residential and mixed use areas closer to

02:32:00.520 --> 02:32:08.140
 the loop and 380, and transitions between that towards residential areas downtown.

02:32:08.140 --> 02:32:18.520
 This also would maintain the existing character of residential in the area with the surrounding

02:32:18.520 --> 02:32:28.780
 zoning of R4 to the south, and then further to the east and west.

02:32:28.780 --> 02:32:35.480
 As for consistency with the future land use map, the site is designated low residential,

02:32:35.480 --> 02:32:40.560
 and this is intended for predominantly single-family neighborhoods with lot sizes up to five units

02:32:40.560 --> 02:32:47.880
 per acre gross density, and for distinct subdivision-style development.

02:32:47.880 --> 02:32:55.880
 The proposed R4 district would allow 7,000-square-foot lots, which would equate to about six units

02:32:55.880 --> 02:33:00.560
 per acre; however, this does not take into account any of the land area that would be

02:33:00.560 --> 02:33:02.760
 needed for access.

02:33:02.760 --> 02:33:07.960
 The panhandle portion of this lot would likely not have any residential lots on it due to

02:33:07.960 --> 02:33:16.280
 the shape, and then for any access down south to reach any of the proposed lots.

02:33:16.280 --> 02:33:22.540
 If you factor that area out of this, the max units they could probably fit on this property

02:33:22.540 --> 02:33:29.640
 would be around 11, which would be closer to 4.23 units per acre gross density, which

02:33:29.640 --> 02:33:37.640
 does fit with the low residential criteria there.

02:33:37.640 --> 02:33:42.600
 This map is just to show the future land use map compared to what is current and what is

02:33:42.600 --> 02:33:44.360
 requested.

02:33:44.360 --> 02:33:50.920
 As you can see, there already is R2, R3, and R4 in this area, and all of these could be

02:33:50.920 --> 02:33:59.660
 consistent with the future land use designation of low residential.

02:33:59.660 --> 02:34:04.640
 The request does meet several goals and policies of the Comprehensive Plan, including infill

02:34:04.640 --> 02:34:06.680
 development.

02:34:06.680 --> 02:34:10.520
 Infill development has slightly different definitions than the Comprehensive Plan and

02:34:10.520 --> 02:34:16.400
 the DDC, but generally it's development of vacant land surrounded by existing development,

02:34:16.400 --> 02:34:24.200
 and this property does have existing development on all sides of it, even if it varies in the

02:34:24.200 --> 02:34:28.520
 density of development, all sides are developed.

02:34:28.520 --> 02:34:33.720
 Since the Comprehensive Plan specifically calls out that the city should take every

02:34:33.720 --> 02:34:39.080
 opportunity to ensure that as gaps in the neighborhood fabric occur, infill development

02:34:39.080 --> 02:34:43.280
 is encouraged, complementing the scale and character of the neighborhood.

02:34:43.280 --> 02:34:47.800
 As I previously stated, this property has been undeveloped roughly since its annexation

02:34:47.800 --> 02:34:54.640
 in 1960.

02:34:54.640 --> 02:35:03.560
 This proposal also is consistent with compact growth goals of the Comprehensive Plan.

02:35:03.560 --> 02:35:10.040
 As shown in the graphic, the site is already served by public water and sewer.

02:35:10.040 --> 02:35:15.000
 Audra as well as Mockingbird are collectors that would serve the property, and the star

02:35:15.000 --> 02:35:26.960
 that you see to the west of the property is Audra Oaks Park, and that is within 1,000

02:35:26.960 --> 02:35:34.200
 feet path of travel from this site, well within the Parks Department 10-minute walk goal for

02:35:34.200 --> 02:35:35.520
 properties.

02:35:35.520 --> 02:35:44.400
 And this would be, as infill would be, complies with the Comprehensive Plan to grow resourcefully

02:35:44.400 --> 02:35:52.380
 with staged continuous and compatible growth.

02:35:52.380 --> 02:36:02.560
 So this proposal also minimizes adverse impacts as well as it doesn't precisely match the

02:36:02.560 --> 02:36:07.040
 growth or the current density of all the surrounding properties.

02:36:07.040 --> 02:36:13.480
 The area is predominantly this similar R4 zoning density.

02:36:13.480 --> 02:36:19.480
 And you can see the properties that are circled in red, so immediately to the south those

02:36:19.480 --> 02:36:26.040
 are currently zoned R4 and have just over 7,000 square foot lot sizes consistent with

02:36:26.040 --> 02:36:29.100
 most of the surrounding area.

02:36:29.100 --> 02:36:33.480
 And then even the properties to the north, so the one single property that I circled

02:36:33.480 --> 02:36:36.080
 north of this subject site.

02:36:36.080 --> 02:36:41.960
 I wanted to point out that this property is just over 13,000 square feet, which would

02:36:41.960 --> 02:36:47.640
 not be consistent with R2 zoning today if they were to redevelop or plat, that would

02:36:47.640 --> 02:36:51.200
 not meet current R2 standards.

02:36:51.200 --> 02:36:57.480
 So it would be difficult for some of these areas to develop under the current, to redevelop

02:36:57.480 --> 02:37:05.680
 under the current R2 standards given the lot size that this has or the lot shape.

02:37:05.680 --> 02:37:11.480
 And rezoning would facilitate harmonious development with the properties to the south as well as

02:37:11.480 --> 02:37:15.360
 the general area.

02:37:15.360 --> 02:37:21.360
 So this slide just shows some of the development patterns that have occurred since annexation.

02:37:21.360 --> 02:37:26.560
 A lot of the development began in the '80s and you can see the splotchy sort of pattern

02:37:26.560 --> 02:37:32.900
 of development and why it's expected future and future infill projects like this and this

02:37:32.900 --> 02:37:41.640
 one as well, why we are seeing this more today and these requests are coming before you.

02:37:41.640 --> 02:37:49.040
 So staff did notify residents and owners within 500 feet of the property and a sign was posted

02:37:49.040 --> 02:37:53.160
 on the property on August 29th.

02:37:53.160 --> 02:38:01.160
 Staff did receive five responses in opposition totaling 38.92% of the property within 200

02:38:01.160 --> 02:38:02.160
 feet.

02:38:02.160 --> 02:38:08.080
 And the applicant did have conversations with some of the adjacent residents and he is here

02:38:08.080 --> 02:38:13.400
 to answer any questions if you have questions for him.

02:38:13.400 --> 02:38:18.440
 And with that staff is recommending approval of the zoning change to R4 zoning district

02:38:18.440 --> 02:38:23.680
 as it complies with the Denton Development Code criteria for general applications and

02:38:23.680 --> 02:38:24.680
 for rezoning.

02:38:24.680 --> 02:38:31.240
 And the next step would be City Council on October 15th and I'll stand for any questions.

02:38:31.240 --> 02:38:33.080
 >> Thank you very much, Erin.

02:38:33.080 --> 02:38:36.860
 Any questions right now for Erin?

02:38:36.860 --> 02:38:38.400
 Thank you very much.

02:38:38.400 --> 02:38:39.560
 This is a public hearing.

02:38:39.560 --> 02:38:43.760
 I don't have any cards wishing to speak, but is there -- yep, come on up to the podium.

02:38:43.760 --> 02:38:46.520
 If you'll state your name, your time will begin.

02:38:46.520 --> 02:38:52.120
 >> Good afternoon, you got me up past my bed time.

02:38:52.120 --> 02:38:53.120
 My name is B.J.

02:38:53.120 --> 02:38:54.120
 Edwards.

02:38:54.120 --> 02:39:03.200
 I've been a resident here in Denton off and on since '63, not that I really am that old.

02:39:03.200 --> 02:39:09.800
 My family has the property, all the property on the east side of this development, the

02:39:09.800 --> 02:39:19.760
 proposed development, and I'm here to 100% oppose the zone change from 2 to 4.

02:39:19.760 --> 02:39:21.600
 They've tried to do this.

02:39:21.600 --> 02:39:30.040
 This is the fourth time I've come here and probably about four years over the same thing.

02:39:30.040 --> 02:39:36.320
 With I think what I've learned here is the way it's zoned now, they can put five or six

02:39:36.320 --> 02:39:40.320
 homes in that 2.6 acres the way it is.

02:39:40.320 --> 02:39:46.720
 There's things to be considered about the traffic we have now on Mockingbird at Audra,

02:39:46.720 --> 02:39:50.980
 which is I think less than 100 feet away.

02:39:50.980 --> 02:39:55.800
 It's a three-way intersection there.

02:39:55.800 --> 02:39:58.860
 School buses and stuff, it's always a problem.

02:39:58.860 --> 02:40:04.320
 And if you put multi-drillings in there, like an apartment building or whatever they want

02:40:04.320 --> 02:40:10.080
 to call it, that's going to create a lot more traffic there, and there's no sidewalks to

02:40:10.080 --> 02:40:13.960
 support it.

02:40:13.960 --> 02:40:19.080
 We've got more than 20% of the bounding property there, and we do oppose.

02:40:19.080 --> 02:40:26.640
 I know when it was here before this board once before, it didn't fit the criteria.

02:40:26.640 --> 02:40:31.600
 And I wonder what might have changed to make it fit the criteria now.

02:40:31.600 --> 02:40:36.800
 That's the last of the houses there with the big lots, and you can see straight to the

02:40:36.800 --> 02:40:40.840
 south that they have all those packed in there.

02:40:40.840 --> 02:40:43.360
 That's the last of them.

02:40:43.360 --> 02:40:46.880
 We have one right beside of it.

02:40:46.880 --> 02:40:52.600
 And all those houses you pointed out on the north side originally was part of that lot.

02:40:52.600 --> 02:40:58.920
 That man died, the inheritors started selling off pieces, and so that's what happened with

02:40:58.920 --> 02:41:04.000
 that one little sliver that lets them in from the west, the mockingbird.

02:41:04.000 --> 02:41:06.760
 That part didn't get sold.

02:41:06.760 --> 02:41:14.920
 But anyways, I just come before here and I oppose it, and those are my reasons.

02:41:14.920 --> 02:41:18.160
 It's the last little green belt we got over there.

02:41:18.160 --> 02:41:20.040
 Those aren't new homes around there.

02:41:20.040 --> 02:41:21.740
 Those are older homes.

02:41:21.740 --> 02:41:26.820
 The one I have, I think, was built in the '40s, the '50s, and the '60s.

02:41:26.820 --> 02:41:31.480
 It's one of those like you were talking about, the Evers House, I hate to see leave, because

02:41:31.480 --> 02:41:34.400
 Evers is part of Denton's history.

02:41:34.400 --> 02:41:38.520
 I hate to see us lose Denton history, but we are.

02:41:38.520 --> 02:41:43.040
 We're losing razor, we're losing bass, we're losing coal.

02:41:43.040 --> 02:41:47.880
 We're losing a lot of good, and I hate to see that go, but that's different.

02:41:47.880 --> 02:41:51.460
 This doesn't relate to history or historical.

02:41:51.460 --> 02:41:55.480
 If you saw how the house was built, you'd think it was historical, because that's back

02:41:55.480 --> 02:41:58.760
 when they had a basic house and then when they could afford it, they'd had a bathroom

02:41:58.760 --> 02:42:01.000
 or they'd had a laundry room.

02:42:01.000 --> 02:42:03.840
 It's built in sections.

02:42:03.840 --> 02:42:09.480
 But anyways, I do oppose this, don't change, because we don't have much crime there now.

02:42:09.480 --> 02:42:13.040
 Enough of it moved out there.

02:42:13.040 --> 02:42:19.520
 When we revamped that nursing home for the homeless people, now we have trash where they're

02:42:19.520 --> 02:42:20.640
 coming from downtown.

02:42:20.640 --> 02:42:25.280
 They got them out of downtown, they take them out there, so they go back and forth.

02:42:25.280 --> 02:42:29.320
 And that'll just add to more traffic, it'll add to the theft.

02:42:29.320 --> 02:42:33.960
 The economy's getting worse and the theft's gonna get worse.

02:42:33.960 --> 02:42:40.800
 So I'm opposed to cramming in more addresses in that very small spot.

02:42:40.800 --> 02:42:41.800
 Thank you for your time.

02:42:41.800 --> 02:42:42.800
 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

02:42:42.800 --> 02:42:43.800
 Appreciate you being here past the best time.

02:42:43.800 --> 02:42:44.800
 Any questions for me?

02:42:44.800 --> 02:42:45.800
 Do we have any questions?

02:42:45.800 --> 02:42:46.800
 Thank you for your time.

02:42:46.800 --> 02:42:47.800
 I appreciate it.

02:42:47.800 --> 02:42:48.800
 Thank you.

02:42:48.800 --> 02:42:56.320
 I don't have any other cards in front of me, but is there anyone else wishing to speak?

02:42:56.320 --> 02:42:57.320
 Yeah, sure.

02:42:57.320 --> 02:42:58.320
 Come on down.

02:42:58.320 --> 02:42:59.320
 You take your time.

02:42:59.320 --> 02:43:13.360
 Hi there, if you'll give us your name, your time will begin.

02:43:13.360 --> 02:43:15.600
 I'm Melody Ostrom.

02:43:15.600 --> 02:43:21.240
 I live, my driveway is right across the street from that property.

02:43:21.240 --> 02:43:31.920
 And there's a house right next to it and a house right next to that that has a lot, chickens.

02:43:31.920 --> 02:43:37.200
 And I just can't imagine the traffic there would be terrible.

02:43:37.200 --> 02:43:41.620
 And there's a great, I don't even know how they'd configure that lot.

02:43:41.620 --> 02:43:45.760
 When you go across the street, there's a great big lump that goes all the way across that

02:43:45.760 --> 02:43:46.760
 street.

02:43:46.760 --> 02:43:49.760
 They'd have to completely reconfigure it.

02:43:49.760 --> 02:43:53.480
 And I'm opposed to it.

02:43:53.480 --> 02:43:58.000
 I wouldn't like it at all, especially being right across the street from me, because I

02:43:58.000 --> 02:44:01.840
 live on the corner of Auburn and Marketport.

02:44:01.840 --> 02:44:07.520
 In my driveway, it's right across the street from that sign that says zoning.

02:44:07.520 --> 02:44:09.640
 So I'm very opposed to it.

02:44:09.640 --> 02:44:12.120
 Thank you for letting us know your thoughts.

02:44:12.120 --> 02:44:15.760
 Appreciate that.

02:44:15.760 --> 02:44:18.680
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item?

02:44:18.680 --> 02:44:19.680
 Okay.

02:44:19.680 --> 02:44:23.600
 I do have one card that I'll read into the record.

02:44:23.600 --> 02:44:28.240
 In opposition, not wishing to speak, and that is Shannon Koch.

02:44:28.240 --> 02:44:29.240
 Okay.

02:44:29.240 --> 02:44:31.880
 Thank you.

02:44:31.880 --> 02:44:32.880
 Thank you.

02:44:32.880 --> 02:44:33.880
 All right.

02:44:33.880 --> 02:44:37.680
 Seeing no one else wishing to speak on this item, I'll go ahead and close the public hearing

02:44:37.680 --> 02:44:40.480
 and open the floor for discussion or motion.

02:44:40.480 --> 02:44:41.480
 Commissioner Villarreal.

02:44:41.480 --> 02:44:42.480
 Is the applicant here today?

02:44:42.480 --> 02:44:43.480
 Yes.

02:44:43.480 --> 02:44:51.160
 I have a few questions for the applicant.

02:44:51.160 --> 02:44:52.160
 Thank you for being here.

02:44:52.160 --> 02:44:53.160
 Yes, sir.

02:44:53.160 --> 02:44:57.740
 I guess my question is with the past contention this property's had before this commission

02:44:57.740 --> 02:45:04.200
 and in front of city council, why wasn't there a public meeting held openly for what the

02:45:04.200 --> 02:45:09.200
 public to have these conversations, have these tough conversations and hash it out before

02:45:09.200 --> 02:45:10.200
 getting here?

02:45:10.200 --> 02:45:11.200
 Yeah, absolutely.

02:45:11.200 --> 02:45:14.840
 It's a great question.

02:45:14.840 --> 02:45:20.200
 This project is one a little bit outside of the normal for me personally.

02:45:20.200 --> 02:45:21.600
 I'm a local resident.

02:45:21.600 --> 02:45:22.960
 I live here in Denton.

02:45:22.960 --> 02:45:30.080
 In fact, my personal residence is less than half of a mile away from this specific location.

02:45:30.080 --> 02:45:33.480
 This is a zoning without any development plans.

02:45:33.480 --> 02:45:39.200
 There is no significant volume of trees or anything.

02:45:39.200 --> 02:45:44.720
 Being a person that comes from a rural community myself, seeing a spot like this, I absolutely

02:45:44.720 --> 02:45:50.840
 understand it's ... I would always love to keep things as rural as possible.

02:45:50.840 --> 02:45:58.000
 My client specifically had purchased this land hoping to someday develop it.

02:45:58.000 --> 02:46:04.800
 They did not find the opportunity to where it was feasible for them and for their business.

02:46:04.800 --> 02:46:10.240
 Whenever they had asked me to bring it forward for a rezoning opportunity, it was with no

02:46:10.240 --> 02:46:16.840
 intention of development, only to resell, no loss of trees, no land clearing proposals

02:46:16.840 --> 02:46:23.760
 or anything of the nature, and it was conducive with everything else going on around it.

02:46:23.760 --> 02:46:31.080
 I was not personally aware of past specific issues with this land, other than what was

02:46:31.080 --> 02:46:37.960
 given to me from the investor who owns the land right now.

02:46:37.960 --> 02:46:45.120
 He had said that from his purchase of this property that the last owners had brought

02:46:45.120 --> 02:46:51.880
 it forth for a rezone, but with a application for development on it as well, and that they

02:46:51.880 --> 02:46:56.080
 had seemed to have given up in the middle of the process.

02:46:56.080 --> 02:47:01.640
 I saw that at one point they did bring that forward, but in this case we're looking to

02:47:01.640 --> 02:47:05.720
 just simply bring the zoning and to match it with everything else.

02:47:05.720 --> 02:47:12.120
 Now I will say my client is not a local resident of Denton.

02:47:12.120 --> 02:47:19.960
 He was looking to, as an investor, even match the zoning to the north and east of the property.

02:47:19.960 --> 02:47:25.320
 Whether off of McKinney, similar to that of Good Lane and Bayfield Drive, or there was

02:47:25.320 --> 02:47:31.000
 a higher density housing multifamily home right there, I had personally advised him

02:47:31.000 --> 02:47:35.680
 that in this area of town it would be much better for the local community to have it

02:47:35.680 --> 02:47:40.720
 more as an R4 than pushing forward towards something like an R7 or anything similar to

02:47:40.720 --> 02:47:41.720
 it.

02:47:41.720 --> 02:47:47.120
 And so this is where we're at right now, but I'm happy to answer any other questions

02:47:47.120 --> 02:47:50.520
 of residents or the commission.

02:47:50.520 --> 02:47:51.520
 Thank you.

02:47:51.520 --> 02:47:55.120
 Appreciate that, and I appreciate you not coming up with us with an R7.

02:47:55.120 --> 02:47:56.120
 Yeah.

02:47:56.120 --> 02:47:57.120
 All right.

02:47:57.120 --> 02:47:58.120
 You know.

02:47:58.120 --> 02:47:59.120
 Doin' my part.

02:47:59.120 --> 02:48:04.520
 Yeah, I didn't see any other questions.

02:48:04.520 --> 02:48:08.920
 Thank you very much for being here.

02:48:08.920 --> 02:48:13.760
 Could I actually speak to one of the comments made also by one of the residents?

02:48:13.760 --> 02:48:14.760
 Yeah, go ahead.

02:48:14.760 --> 02:48:15.760
 I'll let you do that.

02:48:15.760 --> 02:48:16.760
 Sure.

02:48:16.760 --> 02:48:22.960
 We did do a traffic analysis report, because like I said, I personally live less than half

02:48:22.960 --> 02:48:27.440
 of a mile away from this location and drive through it almost on a daily basis.

02:48:27.440 --> 02:48:36.460
 The traffic analysis report, if a purchaser of this property from my client were to develop

02:48:36.460 --> 02:48:41.960
 according to the housing density with all of the surrounding R4, the increase of traffic

02:48:41.960 --> 02:48:48.240
 there in that area, given that there needs to be a public access road built into it from

02:48:48.240 --> 02:48:55.320
 that panhandle shape, as Aaron mentioned, the density of homes would not really allow

02:48:55.320 --> 02:49:02.080
 for any significant impact on the local community as far as traffic there on Audre Lane or on

02:49:02.080 --> 02:49:03.080
 Mockingbird.

02:49:03.080 --> 02:49:08.980
 But yeah, I just wanted to make sure that the local community even knew that was taken

02:49:08.980 --> 02:49:09.980
 into account.

02:49:09.980 --> 02:49:15.920
 We did do a traffic analysis report as requested and it was very nominal impact on the area.

02:49:15.920 --> 02:49:16.920
 Thank you for sharing that.

02:49:16.920 --> 02:49:17.920
 Appreciate it.

02:49:17.920 --> 02:49:18.920
 Commissioner Perrett.

02:49:18.920 --> 02:49:24.520
 A question for staff.

02:49:24.520 --> 02:49:30.760
 Help me understand when we have sort of a small flag lot subdivision potential, if you

02:49:30.760 --> 02:49:36.920
 will, as that goes through the development process, assuming it already had the zoning

02:49:36.920 --> 02:49:50.280
 that they wanted to apply for, how would the proportionality of street improvements apply?

02:49:50.280 --> 02:49:56.640
 I guess I'm thinking if this was the same acreage but it fronted Mockingbird Street,

02:49:56.640 --> 02:50:02.840
 then my understanding of our zoning ordinance is that it would require adding sidewalks

02:50:02.840 --> 02:50:08.100
 along that side of Mockingbird Street, for instance, or at least dedication of the land

02:50:08.100 --> 02:50:12.960
 and some amount of that.

02:50:12.960 --> 02:50:18.000
 Would that also be true when it's a flag lot subdivision or not?

02:50:18.000 --> 02:50:22.360
 I'm not sure I know the answer to that one.

02:50:22.360 --> 02:50:26.600
 Haley, keep me honest.

02:50:26.600 --> 02:50:32.000
 So the proportionality comes into play typically with the permanent roadway improvements.

02:50:32.000 --> 02:50:36.640
 So given that this property has frontage on Mockingbird, if we needed to have right of

02:50:36.640 --> 02:50:42.440
 way dedication and street improvements, then we would evaluate those improvements in accordance

02:50:42.440 --> 02:50:46.720
 with what's being proposed associated with the development to ensure the proportionality

02:50:46.720 --> 02:50:48.360
 pencils out.

02:50:48.360 --> 02:50:53.880
 The interior streets, like the local residential streets, that's the responsibility of the

02:50:53.880 --> 02:50:55.280
 developer at that time.

02:50:55.280 --> 02:50:59.480
 And so that proportionality assessment is not done because those are the local streets.

02:50:59.480 --> 02:51:03.760
 That just kicks in on the perimeter roadway improvements.

02:51:03.760 --> 02:51:06.280
 Okay.

02:51:06.280 --> 02:51:07.280
 Thank you for that.

02:51:07.280 --> 02:51:09.920
 That helps me understand.

02:51:09.920 --> 02:51:20.320
 I am sensitive to the history of this area of town, be it that there were policy decisions

02:51:20.320 --> 02:51:32.560
 and opportunities of where property and buildings were available to be able to build the...

02:51:32.560 --> 02:51:36.640
 Or renovate the shelter out on Loop 288.

02:51:36.640 --> 02:51:42.280
 I'm also sensitive to the fact that we're then putting a population out there who largely

02:51:42.280 --> 02:51:49.680
 right now have to walk across Audra that has no sidewalks and then down Mockingbird which

02:51:49.680 --> 02:51:53.040
 has no sidewalks until you get to Paisley.

02:51:53.040 --> 02:51:54.040
 So yeah.

02:51:54.040 --> 02:51:55.040
 That's for him.

02:51:55.040 --> 02:51:56.040
 Thank you.

02:51:56.040 --> 02:52:05.840
 Erin, while you're up there, can you put, oh, maybe you didn't have the proposed zoning

02:52:05.840 --> 02:52:06.840
 in your...

02:52:06.840 --> 02:52:07.840
 Proposed zoning?

02:52:07.840 --> 02:52:08.840
 Yeah.

02:52:08.840 --> 02:52:09.840
 This one?

02:52:09.840 --> 02:52:10.840
 Yeah.

02:52:10.840 --> 02:52:24.320
 This is going to be the fourth time that I have seen this request, and there's really

02:52:24.320 --> 02:52:25.600
 not a whole lot different.

02:52:25.600 --> 02:52:31.960
 This just doesn't have the overlay component that the other couple of times had.

02:52:31.960 --> 02:52:39.880
 When we talk about trying to continue the zoning, we're not really continuing our four

02:52:39.880 --> 02:52:40.880
 zoning here.

02:52:40.880 --> 02:52:44.800
 We're sticking our four zoning in the middle of R2 zoning.

02:52:44.800 --> 02:52:46.120
 That's really what we're doing.

02:52:46.120 --> 02:52:50.200
 This piece of property is surrounded by R2.

02:52:50.200 --> 02:52:54.240
 This property has sold multiple times.

02:52:54.240 --> 02:53:01.120
 All of the listings that I researched today, they all say, "Come build your home.

02:53:01.120 --> 02:53:08.720
 Nice home site that you can still find in Denton where you can build your home and still

02:53:08.720 --> 02:53:16.560
 have some room."

02:53:16.560 --> 02:53:22.120
 When this was brought before us, at best an engineer got up here and said they could put

02:53:22.120 --> 02:53:24.440
 maybe nine homes.

02:53:24.440 --> 02:53:28.200
 They had said then they would love to get 10, but he couldn't figure out a way to get

02:53:28.200 --> 02:53:32.440
 10, so he could put nine.

02:53:32.440 --> 02:53:38.720
 Again, even with that, it's not compatible with what it is.

02:53:38.720 --> 02:53:43.840
 It doesn't continue any kind of zoning on the property of the south or the property

02:53:43.840 --> 02:53:45.920
 to the cross-mockingbird.

02:53:45.920 --> 02:53:51.680
 It doesn't do that.

02:53:51.680 --> 02:54:00.000
 I don't feel that our role is to help a property owner make a profit on their investment.

02:54:00.000 --> 02:54:06.000
 I just don't think that's a consideration, and I feel like that's what this request feels

02:54:06.000 --> 02:54:07.920
 like.

02:54:07.920 --> 02:54:14.420
 Knowing it actually has been on the market for over a year and it hasn't sold yet.

02:54:14.420 --> 02:54:22.400
 Knowing that this is a straight zoning request of R4 without any kind of plan or protection

02:54:22.400 --> 02:54:24.280
 in place.

02:54:24.280 --> 02:54:26.280
 Townhomes and duplexes are allowed in R4.

02:54:26.280 --> 02:54:29.920
 Yes, they need an SUP, but an SUP doesn't mean that that's a zoning stop.

02:54:29.920 --> 02:54:31.720
 That doesn't mean that that couldn't happen.

02:54:31.720 --> 02:54:37.880
 If we change it to R4, the next owner, maybe they buy it then, and they come up here and

02:54:37.880 --> 02:54:41.180
 they ask for an SUP.

02:54:41.180 --> 02:54:43.560
 That certainly doesn't fit.

02:54:43.560 --> 02:54:46.480
 That's how you're going to make your money on that, is if you can put some duplexes or

02:54:46.480 --> 02:54:49.320
 townhomes in there.

02:54:49.320 --> 02:54:52.840
 That's what they're doing on Bayfield down at the end of Audra, but that's not what this

02:54:52.840 --> 02:54:58.680
 piece of property is.

02:54:58.680 --> 02:55:05.120
 There's no significant changes since we heard this last in 2020.

02:55:05.120 --> 02:55:06.120
 Mockingbird's still a mess.

02:55:06.120 --> 02:55:08.440
 It still doesn't have sidewalks like you pointed out.

02:55:08.440 --> 02:55:09.880
 It's still very narrow.

02:55:09.880 --> 02:55:13.560
 It's still heavily congested at school time when a bus is trying to get through there.

02:55:13.560 --> 02:55:17.760
 If you're trying to get your car through there or your kids are trying to walk and maneuver,

02:55:17.760 --> 02:55:18.760
 it's bad.

02:55:18.760 --> 02:55:19.760
 Mockingbird is bad.

02:55:19.760 --> 02:55:21.680
 We've talked about that for years and years.

02:55:21.680 --> 02:55:27.200
 Unfortunately, it's down the list on our road improvements.

02:55:27.200 --> 02:55:30.880
 Anyway, I just wanted to give you history because I think I'm the only one sitting up

02:55:30.880 --> 02:55:35.320
 here who has heard this item.

02:55:35.320 --> 02:55:41.120
 Maybe Commissioner Cole was on it then, I'm not sure, but anyway, I just wanted to share

02:55:41.120 --> 02:55:46.120
 my thoughts as to where my brain is thinking.

02:55:46.120 --> 02:55:49.040
 Commissioner Villarreal, I see you on the board.

02:55:49.040 --> 02:55:50.840
 Yes, for a motion.

02:55:50.840 --> 02:55:56.980
 I move denial for a lot of the reasons already stated today from the lack of knowledge as

02:55:56.980 --> 02:56:02.520
 to what is going to be put here, to the lack of community meeting to discuss what could

02:56:02.520 --> 02:56:08.200
 be put here, and of course, the fact that we're shoving this in to an R2 area.

02:56:08.200 --> 02:56:13.180
 With all that being said, I am moving denial of this request.

02:56:13.180 --> 02:56:14.180
 Commissioner Cole?

02:56:14.180 --> 02:56:15.180
 Second.

02:56:15.180 --> 02:56:16.180
 Okay.

02:56:16.180 --> 02:56:18.460
 We've got a first and a second for denial.

02:56:18.460 --> 02:56:21.160
 Is there any discussion?

02:56:21.160 --> 02:56:22.160
 Commissioner Pruitt?

02:56:22.160 --> 02:56:29.480
 I'll just say, I understand the history, I did go back and look at some of those meetings.

02:56:29.480 --> 02:56:38.980
 Some of them I watched and may have called into, I don't remember exactly, so if you're

02:56:38.980 --> 02:56:49.880
 interested, you can go back to the 29th, anyway.

02:56:49.880 --> 02:56:54.000
 I'll just say, I do commend the request for a straight zoning.

02:56:54.000 --> 02:57:03.440
 I know that we always feel happy and fuzzy with the cherry on top when we get a plan

02:57:03.440 --> 02:57:14.560
 that looks like a finished building, but there is value to having clear, simple regulations

02:57:14.560 --> 02:57:21.040
 behind what somebody can do with their property as opposed to something that was created.

02:57:21.040 --> 02:57:30.040
 We've seen PDs and PD amendments from the '80s, and it's like a crooked, photocopied,

02:57:30.040 --> 02:57:34.880
 purple print, whatever they used to call those things, stuff.

02:57:34.880 --> 02:57:46.880
 Anyway, so in general, I'm for straight zonings in places that need to kind of breathe, but

02:57:46.880 --> 02:57:56.080
 I also think Chair's comments about why now are very cogent.

02:57:56.080 --> 02:57:57.080
 Thank you for that.

02:57:57.080 --> 02:57:58.080
 Sure.

02:57:58.080 --> 02:57:59.080
 Thank you.

02:57:59.080 --> 02:58:01.160
 All right, first and a second for denial.

02:58:01.160 --> 02:58:03.200
 Is there any further discussion?

02:58:03.200 --> 02:58:19.720
 Okay, we'll go ahead and vote, and it would be a yes to deny or a no for yes, okay.

02:58:19.720 --> 02:58:24.920
 That motion is going to carry 5-0.

02:58:24.920 --> 02:58:34.740
 That will bring us to our planning and zoning matrix, and I will turn it over to Tina.

02:58:34.740 --> 02:58:35.960
 Thank you, Chair.

02:58:35.960 --> 02:58:37.560
 Not much to report this evening.

02:58:37.560 --> 02:58:44.760
 I think we did go ahead and update the matrix and added just a past tense date related to

02:58:44.760 --> 02:58:50.840
 the comp plan action items to document that we did that as well, and we'll go ahead and

02:58:50.840 --> 02:58:55.320
 Chair Ellis, if you feel like our presentation this evening during work session addressed

02:58:55.320 --> 02:58:58.480
 to your item on the matrix, we'll go ahead and remove that.

02:58:58.480 --> 02:58:59.480
 Sure, sounds good.

02:58:59.480 --> 02:59:00.480
 Thank you for doing that.

02:59:00.480 --> 02:59:01.480
 You're welcome.

02:59:01.480 --> 02:59:07.720
 In terms of council action on any cases that the commission may have seen, let's see, since

02:59:07.720 --> 02:59:11.840
 your last meeting on the 28th of August, council has not had any meetings, so I have nothing

02:59:11.840 --> 02:59:13.880
 to report on that front.

02:59:13.880 --> 02:59:19.160
 We do have several items that are slated to go on the 17th if you're keeping track, so

02:59:19.160 --> 02:59:24.240
 we've got a busy meeting there and then through the end of the year with projects, but otherwise

02:59:24.240 --> 02:59:25.240
 nothing else to report.

02:59:25.240 --> 02:59:26.240
 So thank you.

02:59:26.240 --> 02:59:27.240
 Thank you.

02:59:27.240 --> 02:59:29.360
 Is there anything else to add to the matrix?

02:59:29.360 --> 02:59:30.360
 No?

02:59:30.360 --> 02:59:37.760
 Tina, it's not really a matrix item, I guess, so maybe it falls into concluding items, but

02:59:37.760 --> 02:59:44.960
 just bringing up my point again about platting standard, I don't know if I can get maybe

02:59:44.960 --> 02:59:51.040
 a little, we could get a workup of your answer to why we don't do things the same.

02:59:51.040 --> 02:59:54.520
 I know you mentioned something about different people looking at it, but I'm still a little

02:59:54.520 --> 03:00:02.040
 bit fuzzy on why we don't do gas well designations on subdivision plots the same.

03:00:02.040 --> 03:00:03.080
 I don't understand.

03:00:03.080 --> 03:00:08.440
 So if we could get some kind of note that just clarifies that with more understanding,

03:00:08.440 --> 03:00:14.400
 or better yet, how about a process for doing it all the same, even better?

03:00:14.400 --> 03:00:21.600
 And then if we could get a presentation on the tree fund, I would love that.

03:00:21.600 --> 03:00:27.480
 I don't know how everybody else feels about that, but I know that's something that we

03:00:27.480 --> 03:00:28.480
 have discussed in the past.

03:00:28.480 --> 03:00:33.280
 It's been a long time since we've discussed that, certainly before our tree code was redone,

03:00:33.280 --> 03:00:34.540
 I know.

03:00:34.540 --> 03:00:39.720
 So I think to just kind of get an update on how that's done, where those are going, and

03:00:39.720 --> 03:00:42.040
 how often it's used, and that would be fantastic.

03:00:42.040 --> 03:00:43.040
 Sure thing.

03:00:43.040 --> 03:00:48.480
 We can, we'll look into your first request item, and I understand your sensitivity associated

03:00:48.480 --> 03:00:51.280
 with that, and we can definitely look at something for gas wells.

03:00:51.280 --> 03:00:55.640
 It's just like, you know, I have a preference for property lines being shown a certain way

03:00:55.640 --> 03:00:59.480
 on plots and would love every engineer who does work within our community to draw them

03:00:59.480 --> 03:01:04.200
 the way that I would like them to, but I know in that scenario, with the volume of work,

03:01:04.200 --> 03:01:05.200
 that's not reasonable.

03:01:05.200 --> 03:01:10.080
 But I think with respect to the gas well notations, we can definitely look at something that's

03:01:10.080 --> 03:01:15.120
 a little more standardized, given the unique aspect associated with those gas wells, and

03:01:15.120 --> 03:01:18.240
 then definitely we can get a presentation on Tree Fund.

03:01:18.240 --> 03:01:22.640
 We'll call on our friend, Mr. Packin, to have his staff help us out on that.

03:01:22.640 --> 03:01:23.640
 Sure.

03:01:23.640 --> 03:01:24.640
 Great.

03:01:24.640 --> 03:01:25.640
 Okay.

03:01:25.640 --> 03:01:26.640
 Commissioner Pruitt.

03:01:26.640 --> 03:01:27.640
 Thank you, Chair.

03:01:27.640 --> 03:01:34.720
 I really appreciate those two requests, and if it makes sense, along with the Tree Fund,

03:01:34.720 --> 03:01:39.540
 I would appreciate some guidance from staff and maybe feedback from this body as far as

03:01:39.540 --> 03:01:49.360
 if there are ways to make sure impacts to specific neighborhoods with development, if

03:01:49.360 --> 03:01:56.440
 there are Tree Fund dollars that they get used there quickly.

03:01:56.440 --> 03:02:01.920
 And then on the question of the gas wells, I appreciate that.

03:02:01.920 --> 03:02:12.280
 There was a question a couple of years ago, or maybe a year and a half ago, about impact

03:02:12.280 --> 03:02:20.120
 when there is a gas well outside of city limits that then puts city limits property within

03:02:20.120 --> 03:02:29.260
 500 feet or 1250, depending on the consideration of whether it's a reverse setback or a forward

03:02:29.260 --> 03:02:31.600
 setback.

03:02:31.600 --> 03:02:38.040
 I don't recall a conclusion or resolution to that item of discussion.

03:02:38.040 --> 03:02:41.260
 It was something at council, and then we mentioned it here.

03:02:41.260 --> 03:02:45.360
 If there already was a resolution, I don't think we need to add anything to the plat

03:02:45.360 --> 03:02:49.720
 thing, but if there wasn't, I'd appreciate an update maybe along with that, since it

03:02:49.720 --> 03:02:51.840
 still deals with gas wells.

03:02:51.840 --> 03:02:56.600
 What we could do is we could do a presentation to the commission for your benefit, because

03:02:56.600 --> 03:03:02.680
 not every day you see requests that have gas wells involved, but what we can do is do a

03:03:02.680 --> 03:03:07.640
 presentation and, to your point, address that reverse gas well setback and how that comes

03:03:07.640 --> 03:03:08.640
 into play.

03:03:08.640 --> 03:03:12.700
 We can address it for both properties that are within the city limits, and then if the

03:03:12.700 --> 03:03:17.440
 gas well is outside the city limits, how that might impact, because I think there's been

03:03:17.440 --> 03:03:23.440
 some determinations made on how that applies, but we can bring you a primer presentation

03:03:23.440 --> 03:03:24.440
 on that if that works.

03:03:24.440 --> 03:03:25.440
 Thank you.

03:03:25.440 --> 03:03:26.440
 Thank you.

03:03:26.440 --> 03:03:27.440
 Thank you.

03:03:27.440 --> 03:03:28.440
 Okay.

03:03:28.440 --> 03:03:29.440
 See nothing else there.

03:03:29.440 --> 03:03:31.560
 I'll go ahead and adjourn this at 8.36 p.m.

03:03:31.560 --> 03:03:32.560
 Thank you very much, everyone.