Sep 09, 2024 Historic Landmark Commission on 2024-09-09 5:30 PM

We have quorum. Yay! Alright, I am going to call the meeting to order. We have a quorum present. It is Monday, September 9th, and I'm calling the meeting at 5.36 p.m. If you would all please rise with me and let's see the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one indivisible. Thank you all. Alright. Okay, we have one individual from the community that would like to speak. Jennifer Blaine. Will you come up to the podium please? Sure. You'll have three minutes. Okay, great. Thank you. I wanted to just apprise the committee that Cameron graciously took a group of us in the Deenia Neighborhood Association who are a subcommittee at a forum for the landmark, a subcommittee landmark committee within Deenia, and we did a neighborhood walk, and this is one of the maps that she created for us, and I have a version of it with it marked up with contemporary homes and ranch homes, split metal homes, almost all of Kendall Street, and off of Woodwardville, we recently approved a home down to Willowwood here, are homes that are prior to 1970 or are of historic value in one form or another, mostly being mid-century modern ranch style, contemporary split level kinds of homes, and so there is a group that we're starting to do the work that's necessary, and will be probably coming from time to time for your advice. There may be individual homes that are landmarked first, and then at a certain point the whole neighborhood might end up landmarked before some people have finished the process for the homes. So that's basically what I wanted to do, is just give you that heads up. And then one other topic is just that I went to the PNC, I remember being here when it was much discussed, the senior center and the O'Neill Ford aspect and the swimming pool and all that sort of thing, and that too came up pretty heavily at PNC, and so I wanted to kind of underscore that you guys are on the right track to keep your eye on that. I know you were really not letting go of that. We want to make sure that this is not somehow something we have to come back to and isn't protected from the outset. Myself and others who very much agree with you, particularly surrounding that swimming pool area, which once gone would be impossible to replace. And so this neighborhood here, if you have any questions, I'm sure Cameron is far better suited to be able to answer them, but it's preserved in a way that a similar neighborhood in Dallas is not. It has already been hit by McMansions and all sorts of things like that, and it's always a fear when those homes go up for sale. So we want to get the designation going, and we've been working on it. That's really all I have to say. - Thank you. - Thank you so much. - We appreciate it. - You're welcome. - We appreciate it. - Did you want to speak? Come on up. I'll take your card now. Okay, then Charles Lee, you'll have three minutes as well, Ms. Hurley. - It's up here with you. - No, you keep that up there. Now, I say this is very like... because there's a property tax exemption that comes along every time you place a historical value on something. And people don't understand what an exemption is. An exemption is not a tax cut. What you're doing, you're exempting certain people at the expense of others, and you're going to be shifting the tax burden from one people's set of houses to another. And you're going to exempt the whole neighborhood? That's going to be kind of a problem, especially because certain people are going to have... that means this property right here is going to be more valuable, because these houses right here are going to have a tax exemption. The other houses aren't going to have. And that's going to increase the value of this property right here. And this is going to be prime real estate, and you're going to close a division in the society, and I don't think it's a good idea. This historical placement needs to be very limited, and it needs to be very... make sure these things are not right for abuse, because I can see this is something that's very dangerous. And it should be very limited in its scope. You just go on and just say you're going to do whole neighborhoods. I look on the map, that's like half a dent. Half a dent is going to be placed as a historical? This needs to be very thought about, about what you're going to place as a historical. It needs to be very limited, and really it should be something that should be placed to the voters, to the voters to decide what buildings are going to be hit, and which buildings are not. And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Ms. Julie, can I ask you a question? Yes. We can't. We can't ask questions? No. It's not an agenda item. Okay. Sorry. Don't worry. Okay. All right. Thank you guys for your input. All right. Moving along. We are going to move to item 3A, number HLC 24-36 is to approve the minutes of the August 12th, approve the minutes for the August 12th meeting. I just need a motion in a second. So moved. Thank you. All in favor raise your hands. Aye. Okay. Great. Thank you so much. And now we have a work session. We're going to hear item 4A, number HLC 24-039 to receive a report and hold discussion regarding the Southeast Indian Area Plan. Who do we have with us today? Good evening. I am Julie Wyatt. Okay, Julie. Here we go. Can we pass these out now? Okay. Let me just give a quick -- let you know what those are. So at your desk you have a copy of the plan, a hard copy of the plan. It's also available online. If you do -- if some of the maps are hard to read because they can get kind of small, feel free to let us know and I'll be happy to email those to you. Those books, you are free to look at them. We had quite a bit of public engagement I'm going to talk about in a minute. And these books were part of it. And we'll talk about that in just a minute. So feel free to take a look at those. So this is the Southeast Indian Area Plan. And this was adopted by council on July 23rd of this year. So it is freshly adopted. But we wanted to talk to you about the role that HLC has in the plan where historic preservation comes into -- is going to come into focus in the plan and where it is -- it's really one of those driving strategies within the plan. So the study area -- the study began -- it kicked off in 2022, in March of 2022. And our original core boundary was McKinney to the north, Woods Road, Shady Oaks, Teasley Lane, Dallas Drive, and then Bell Avenue to the west. That was the core area we looked at. We talked to the community a lot about the boundary of the Southeast Indian Area Plan because we wanted to make sure that the community defined what that boundary was. And so it was an iterative process where first we had the community members drive and then we had maps that they could choose from and we had a survey. Ultimately, we kept that core, but we added a transitional area. So north of McKinney and then east of Woodrow and south of Shady Oaks, we've got that transition area because we know what happens on one side of the street. That's what happens on the other side of the street. So we wanted to make sure that we were sensitive in that transition area to the Shady Oaks -- or to the Southeast Indian Area. This was a council-directed plan and there were quite a few purposes for it. But first, it was to acknowledge that generational trauma that resulted from the displacement of Quaker Town residents. That was really first and foremost. Also, to address those subsequent city actions. It was to address residents' concerns about future displacement. There are some development projects that are going along the edge and within Southeast Indy. And so the community members were concerned about that. So we wanted to address those concerns. We want to identify those areas that are important to residents to preserve and protect. But also identify those areas that they were open to change. Suggest ideas for future improvement, and that is all the public infrastructure part -- the parks, the streets, the sidewalks. And then make recommendations for those capital improvements. As I said, we had quite a bit of community engagement. I think all total we had about 40 times where we were in the community talking to residents and stakeholders about their vision of the area, their concerns, what their goals were for Southeast Indy. Early in the plan, we realized that just a one-size-fits-all approach was not going to work. We couldn't just have a community meeting and the whole neighborhood would show up. We had to get out in the community in a variety of ways. So we did have those traditional community meetings, envisioning workshops. But we also had listening sessions where the city wasn't even invited to come. They met with our project team, our consultant group, the community members did. And really just to listen, listen to the community about their concerns and their frustrations to figure out how we go from there. We did intercept surveys. The books you have are a part of that intercept survey. So we found that going to community events where a lot of community members were going to be present or also just kind of show up at the corner store and talk to residents who were just passing by were really effective ways to talk to a broad demographic of Southeast Indian residents and stakeholders. So we started out with just a survey, so asking questions. And then we drilled that down, ultimately had a visual preference survey, which is what I see a lot of y'all are looking at, kind of having people vote on what do you want to see. So the blue was, hey, we want to see it, the yellow, we don't like that. And then also we asked them about the strategies. Once we got to that part of the planning effort, we asked like, do you agree with these strategies that the project team has come up with to address your concerns? So those were those intercept surveys. And then we did a staff implementation workshop. So our consultant on the project was Mitchell Silver. He was once the parks commissioner in New York City. He's quite a big guy in the planning profession. And he works a lot with communities of color and also on projects where equity is really an important factor. And he started talking to the staff very early, like whatever we put in the plan, we need to make sure that we can do. And so we had staff implementation workshops both at the beginning and the end of the plan to say, OK, here's what we heard from the community. Here's what we'd like to put in the plan. Can we get this done? And we wanted to make sure that that was an important part. So staff implementation was also really necessary. So what we heard from the community, they wanted to improve communication between the community and the city. They wanted to maintain those cherished assets within Southeast Denton to preserve Denton's history and remember the lessons of Quaker Town. That was a really important factor to the community. Wanted to create standards for housing to ensure long term affordability and also address concerns about displacement to improve infrastructure and end a pattern and neglect and begin to heal the area. So from that, we created community goals today. We're really only going to be talking about goal number two. That really is most relevant to the Historic Brand Bar Commission. So, of course, you can read all of the plan. If you have if you want to talk about it, feel free to call me. We can talk about all the other elements. I'll be happy to or Mia Hines, who also worked on the project with me. We love talking about the Southeast Denton area plan. And so we'll be happy to chat with you if you'd like to. We also through the public engagement, a vision was established. And this was vetted by not only the steering committee, but also the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council. The vision is for a harmonious future that ensures a diverse, resilient and inclusive community for generations to come. We will be a vibrant community that the city cultivates trust with, cherishes and preserves our rich black history and culture, discourages gentrification, ensure shared prosperity and elevates the overall quality of life through strategic investments. I think it's a pretty good vision. So we're excited about that. So I want to talk about plan highlights in particular with HLC. So one of our strategies, strategy 2.1 is use historic preservation tools and incentives to recognize the goals we created. Oh, you're fine. So really how the plan is organized is we took all of the public engagement and what we heard from the community and the existing conditions analysis. And those goals were devised in the vision statement. From that, the project team created strategies. Those got a little more specific to those goals and and that vision from those strategies were action items. So with every with each layer, you get a little more detail, a little more specific about what you're going to do. This is a strategy and that is to use the historic preservation tools and incentives to recognize that built environment. And that was to address that goal to to honor the culture and heritage of Southeast. So through that, we we have actions within the plan that will that will address this strategy. One is is a historic resource survey through our analysis. We realize in our research that the last time Southeast Denton was survey was in '96. That was a long time ago. And we and there's there are a lot of historic structures within Southeast Denton that need to be preserved. It not only, you know, preserves that record within Denton, but it also can help preserve the culture of Southeast Denton. It can assist homeowners. And so it is and it's something that we've heard the community they want to preserve. So so that is is strategy two point one. The next strategy is to develop and implement a Southeast Denton history and cultural roots preservation program. Mitchell Silver was really excited about this. He did a similar plan in Harlem in New York. And because they saw a lot of demographic changes that we are seeing in Southeast Denton. Southeast Denton was historically mainly African-American, but it has changed over the last three decades in that it's now a third African-American, a third Hispanic or Latino, and then a third white. So it is changing demographically. But we want to make sure that we honor the history of Southeast Denton because that is really important on the history and the culture. So not only are that that the black culture, but also the emerging Hispanic culture. So it's interesting. We heard from the steering committee about Prairie Street and that Prairie Street used to be kind of a main street within Southeast Denton. There were a lot of businesses there, so you can't see it very well, but I pulled up historic aerial from the 1950s. And you can see there were a lot of structures there on Prairie Street. And a lot of community members have stories about visiting Prairie Street and being able to go shopping there. I think movies, I think there was a movie theater there. Well, that Prairie Street looks a lot different now. But what we want to do is make sure that we understand the past of Prairie Street so that within a cultural district, we can we can provide reminders of what Prairie Street used to be, maybe through historical markers or public art, or if there is something within the right of way that can be done, maybe tours. So there are a lot of things that we could do with with a cultural district. So that was something that we were really excited about. We also heard from community members. I talked with one community member whose father built that house. And she told me about when they built it and that he had a shrub in the front that was trimmed to look like a sofa or a couch. And and like that. And she told me all about it. And I was like, do you have pictures of it? She didn't have pictures. She might have a picture of it. So if we if we get a picture, we would I would love to have that because that, you know, those those kinds of stories about the community, we want to make sure that we keep them and we keep them alive. So through those strategies, we get to implementation. So and with the implementation are action steps. And this is where it gets down to more fine grain and what we're what we're actually going to be doing. Area plan includes 53 action steps. And those are organized as short, medium and long term short term is in the next one to two years. Medium, I believe, is in three to five. And then long term is up to 10 years. We have, I think, 27, 27 items that are short term. So we have a lot to do in the next couple of years. In fact, one of the planning and zoning commission members said you better be back next year having done 15 of them. So we have been working to to prioritize those implementation steps because we want to make sure that we can we can hit all of those milestones and that we can really get get going on this on on the area plan. When it comes to historic preservation, staff just submitted a grant to the National Park Service and it is for underrepresented communities. And we're really excited and we hope we get it. They are going to award it, I believe, January 30th of next year. So that would be money to start a survey on the southeast end. If we are awarded it next year, we will procure a consultant and get started on that on that survey so we can figure out what the boundaries would be for potentially a historic district or a conservation district. And then what individual properties could be landmarked. And we're looking not only at the residential, but also the churches. We think those are really, really important that we need to preserve and say as part of that. And kind of running parallel, we also want to make sure that we are engaged with the community to educate our residents and property owners, stakeholders and homeowners about the benefits of historic preservation and how it can assist them in not only financially, but also just in maintaining the community and those historical touchstones. So we'll be beginning that soon as well. Also, I don't know if you're aware of it, but the city has a performance management software called Invisio. And the city puts all of our strategic initiatives on Invisio. And so it's not only the strategic plan, but the comprehensive plan and the parks plan. And we are going to be working with our team here to put the Southeast Denton area plan, those action steps within Invisio. So we can make sure that we can track that. We can look at all of the different metrics that it would measure. So with that, that concludes my presentation. I'll be happy to answer any questions about the plan, about the public engagement, anything related. If there's super in-depth and historic preservation, I'll probably have Cameron come up and tell you about it, but happy to answer any questions. When I looked at this thing with the dots, I was confused. Are these dots supposed to represent what people did? Are they just what they would? Yes. So that was visual preference. So we heard from the community that they really wanted to maintain the single family nature of Southeast Denton. There was a concern about large multifamily developments on coming into the neighborhood, particularly in the core of the neighborhood. So we wanted to get from the resident. But we did hear that the community was open to some missing metal, maybe some duplexes or some triplexes, something that integrated well within that existing urban fabric. So taking armed with that information, we went out with the community with some different typologies of buildings to say, hey, would you like to see this in your community or would you hate it and you don't want to see it? So with a blue dot, they said, yes, I like it. With the yellow dot, they said, no, I hate this. Don't bring it in. So so that's how we and we use that with we took those on intercept surveys. We went to American Legion with it. We also went to Sedna. So and we even went to Denton High School because a lot of students at Denton High School come from Southeast Denton. So that is their that's their school. And so we wanted to hear from kids because so often you just hear from older folks in plans. But really, when you're talking about area plan, you're talking about planning for your kids because they are kind of 20 years in the future. So we wanted to hear from from kids as well. Okay. And so what did they tell you with regard to the streets? So, yes. And, you know, we heard from the community that they wanted some multimodal elements. So they wanted more pipelines, more sidewalks, things like street trees. So we did hear from the community that they did want that in. Well, and we had five books, so it's spread out over lots of different books. All of these have dots. So they gave them. They kind of spread out here. Yeah, so we had lots. We had five different books that we took out to the community. So we had to tally up all the dots from all the books. This is what you showed the citizens, and then they get the dots. And this is kind of the results. No, no, no, those were. Yes. Yes. So that was those were the strategies that was the result from that. And then we asked the community members, do you agree with this strategy or not? Yeah. Okay, so over here where we show these bicycle cans and all this, and I see all these yellow dots. Well, that's one book. We had five books, just like that. Where we had different. We also have different streets, different streets and different. We also have visioning. Okay, okay. Sorry. Just trying to get the Woody Woodpecker decoder. No, I understand. This is a very negative one that I have here. We also, we also had a visioning workshop that also had the street section. So it was, there were several times where we touched the community about that those different ideas to see if that was something that they were in favor of. And so, you know, I mean, we heard we heard some that didn't want those things, but we've also heard from others. So one of the action steps in terms of the streets is we, we, we understand that the kind of the street right away in Southeast set right those street sections are set they were established 100 years ago when those, when those neighborhoods were platted. And we also understand that that the travel patterns have been established in Southeast. You know, community members want to park on street on this street they you know they want to drive so we want to make sure that we are sensitive to the community. So the area plan ended up that we do have multimodal elements within it where where there are some streets where bicycle and pedestrian do make sense. We've also heard that maybe there's not enough space on other streets so we've tried to be really sensitive try to stay within the existing confines of those rights of way. Another thing that we, as part of the plan is to be more engaged with the community before we design the street, because I think that is where we've made missteps in the past, and that we've designed streets and thought well this, this makes sense here from an engineering standpoint, but we haven't maybe understood how those residents have maybe felt about it because of those travel patterns and the way they were. So, so one of the action steps is to create a communication strategy and outreach strategy before any streets are ever designed in Southeast and, and another is to use something called tactical urbanism, I've lost that word twice today and tactical urbanism is a really good good solution it's a low cost solution to try out different strategies on streets, using things like paint, or removable bollards to see because we hear, we hear concerns about speeding on mores, or part of the reason why people speed on mores is because it's so wide. Are there ways to narrow mores to provide sidewalks and maybe bicycles, but not interrupt people's lives. So to use some tactical urbanism before we start digging up streets, or putting in new curves to see if it's going to work. If it doesn't work you just take it out and you try a new idea so that's that's what the plan calls for is to, to work more with the community before we start making huge changes. Okay, at least I understand what I'm looking at. Okay, good. I'm sorry. You're saying one thing I'm looking at this. Yeah, I've gone through that and I've gone I went to several of the meetings to. But, you know, I didn't know what the compilation was. I went to the one where you all broke the glass to drop it in. But yes, sorry I was unclear. So that yes. I don't know exactly how you get you have all these separate books. Is there one that's supposed to represent the total. Yes, so what, what that was, is the project team took those books took all of that information we actually had them online to compiled all that data. And that drove some of the recommendations in the plan. So, they counted all that information up and did the analysis and then created the plan from it so the plans actually the culmination of all of that. You're just, I just thought y'all might think it was interesting to see how the sausage was made. Yes, I always like to see how the sausage. So you can't take those with you but I if you want, you can always come visit them. Since we're not doing the work. You know, and where those came about was because sorry I could talk a lot about you can play me off stage but um, so often when you go to a community meeting you have the big poster boards, and everybody puts their dots on the poster boards. Well, that really wasn't possible with intercept surveys. So those are the poster boards. Yeah, and those were shrunk down and the purpose of that was so that they could be more, you know, easily handout at an event. Yeah, I got those in my life. And I appreciate the staffs, determinedly doing it, and especially when you have meetings and you didn't have very many people turn up and then you'd have another one and another one and I think staff had more meetings dealing with this than any other one issue. Ever since my time in debt. And then I just felt like oh god, when we were at council meeting, and somebody says delay. And to echo Councilwoman Adam, I want to thank the staff because this has been very thoughtful, but very deliberate. Yes. And it's showing a lot of care in this community that deserves a lot of care. So, I know from a historic vantage point I very much appreciate that, and I know that those steps are super necessary. And there's so much invisible labor, because of this too, right, like you say all the constant meetings and things. But I'm super pleased that we have something that's also giving us direct feedback that we can use to inform our decisions, because that, at the end of the day, that's what we need. Well, and it really is just the beginning so we've been Keisha is going to keep us on track to make sure that we, it, it gets done. And one last question. And it has to do with the Pecan Creek leeway that's going through there so one of the things that kind of interests me about, as we're thinking about our kind of interior design here. And things that's within the city's domain, especially with the new textile interventions that make us super sensitive to what we don't know. So along the concrete, there's a flood obviously. Have there been any discussions about developing that some of that as possible pathways. There is a, there is a trail plan through the concrete connection. And I do believe in color on your computer. I won't guarantee this but I am 95% sure that parks has a grant, and it is it. Yes, and yes. It is, it is moving for concrete trail so it's really important I mean, yeah, look, look how. Yeah, but directly to the center and then you have the rail trail. Yeah, so huge connectivity, right, absolutely, absolutely. Fantastic. I wanted to highlight that because I'm excited. I am too. All right, I appreciate staff's diligence and the two it's been been a while. Yeah, it's been a long project and it's a lot longer to go. But you know what I was really excited about is staff to see what we had an interest in with those churches. And we were thinking what can we do. And so I'm glad to see that that's kind of a. It was such a big help on the crafting especially of that section of, of the area plan for the survey the education and then that the future step of the trying to find grant money and other things to to continue to work with the churches and make sure that those that they stay, stay active members of our community. Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, our next item is item for be HLC two four dash zero three seven. We're going to receive a report and hold the discussion and give staff direction on the historic landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. Did anybody have one they wanted to bring anything new. Yes. Did you want to talk about them. We're going to bring that up. Is this the place to bring up. No, I'm a matrix matrix. That's matrix. Next. So that's enough. As usual, so no one has. That would be enough. All right, we're moving on to item for see HLC two four dash zero three eight to hold a discussion regarding the historic landmark Commission project matrix. Yeah, all right. So there's been some discussion about there's a renewal that's going to happen in terms of a city lease I believe what it is with the women's club usage. And so there's been some interest expressed from community members, and I read about some more interpretive work that maybe could happen with the women's club, so the library. Correct. Yeah, women's club it's on the edge of the library. Right. So, the women's club building that was built there, actually the city owns it at least to the women's club. We have some interested in maybe doing some survey work in terms of trying to look at the contributions and we're fairly interpreting that area. So, I'm interested in opening up a discussion on us to add that to the matrix to be able to look at that historic interpretation, and maybe even invite members and leadership from the women's club to come talk to us a little bit about the building the future of the building the past of the building for us to then look at ways to further our kind of historic interpretation. So, I do want to clarify just real quick. So, are you are putting forward in front of the commission that you would like the commission to invite the members of the women's club here to have a discussion in hopes of creating a historic narrative signage, in terms of, I guess, you know, around to flush it out. So, a little fuller interpretation, I mean the, the one that is there is, in my opinion, really outdated. I mean, last time I was in the park and walk through and I read that that doesn't really tell the story that connection to Quaker. And it is there on the Quaker town. So, I'm, I'm interested in flushing that out a little more full and revisiting that connection. And as a way to then provide a fuller account related to the other historic work that's going on. Thank you. I didn't understand at first, too, but that explains it. Okay, so for that we need a second to be able to add it to the matrix. So we don't have to vote. We need three votes. Well, it was unanimous. Everyone in favor. Thank you. Okay. Anything else. Let's see how we're doing. Okay, so I know there was supposed to be a continuation the historic tax exemption discussion. We're running lots and lots of numbers, so we're trying to pare down those numbers that you all are overwhelmed with. Because even I'm over staff is a little overwhelmed by the numbers that we're getting. So we're going to have that continuation of that discussion in October, 14, just a little bit more time to kind of fix, or I guess iron out all the options that we are wanting to present. Obviously, general topic training. This is, you know, Julie's discussion. That's one of those trainings in terms of kind of what is coming forward in terms of your duties and interests that you all have. We do have the on hold still for that presentation preliminary guidelines that focus group for historic property owners. That's going to be something after we kind of work through this historic tax exemption discussions a little bit more. And then the template agenda to be utilized by you all that's still in the works. So we have lots of different moving pieces right now, but I'm glad we're having positive progression forward in terms of the goals and the requests that we have going forward. And then we have another item for next time. I think city of McKinney is one that you're looking up to. I was there last week and man. Oh, look at that. Oh, look at that. All right. Any other further business that we need to discuss. I have some items. Oh, you did. But you, I would say us first. Yes, you all go first. No, no, no, I was just gonna say I'm gonna take Cameron in the bathroom. We don't have something else. I'll turn the cameras off. Okay. So just wanted to provide you all a reminder that the Design Downtown Denton plan is going forward for public hearing next Tuesday at City Council. So September 17th, and that will start at 630 in the City Council chambers. In terms of another survey underway, I was gonna say Lenny and Angie, y'all are probably the only ones that are familiar with this. The Southridge Historic Resource Survey is finally going through the procurement process. We've received three proposals. We're reviewing those right now as staff getting some good things coming up in those proposals. So we're moving forward and hopefully going to enter a contract by the end of 2024. Southridge neighborhood has never been surveyed. It was not surveyed prior to 1996. So it is some new area that will be surveying. So we're really excited. So we might have two surveys underway. Who knows, in 2025, which would be really exciting. There's a public hearing that's going on next week. Yes. That's on the clock plan. The Design Downtown Denton plan. So that included Quaker Town Park. Yes, the Quaker Town Park Master Plan is going to be part of that. And they can do that without the approval of the historic commission on the plans. So that as kind of Tina had talked about last meeting, that's something that it's a proposed action step, but there's going to be a lot more conversation. It's not just a done deal that, oh, this is happening. It is a much larger discussion. So nothing happens with that plan passing if it does pass. So we're still in the mix. Yes, but it's similar where with Julie's with the Southeast Denton area plan. Nothing happens until there's further discussion. Until then, it's just a plan. There's nothing. So just a public hearing. Are they voting on it? The planning on the plan, but the specific action items that will deal with Quaker Town that some of them will probably need. Yes, as we work through the plan, both implementations, specific action steps and tasks to actually implement the plan. But that was in the details when we get the dance. Well, that's why I'm just wondering if it's the right term that they're going to approve the plan or propose. Adopted plan, but there's so many action steps. I think there's for the downtown plan. There's 23 recommendations of which there's multiple action steps for each recommendation. So similar to what Julie did this evening, I'll be coming back specifically showing you all those action steps or recommendations for of which HLC will be involved. Okay, that's what I want to make sure. You've heard a lot in the community about closing the pool and opposition to that. I just want to make sure that we're in the mix with that or anything like that. Yes, you all are a key stakeholder. I know it's going to be replaced by it. It's conceptual winning. That did not. I was told it was going to be a, what are those things, little water shoes. Flash pad. That's what's in the plan, but they haven't come to us yet for that. I know. I think that's a rendering is a conceptual plan. I guess I understand. I guess HLC will be a key stakeholder in many different recommendations that are being implemented or being brought forward as part of the plan. And then in addition, okay, so September 17, Southridge survey, and then Lenny's request of getting more information regarding 4101 Brown Brothers Trail. I do have some information regarding that. It's obviously a mid-century modern home. It's on 195 acre tract. Just going to, I'm not sure Lenny exactly what you wanted information about, but this is all on Zillow. But it is not currently for sale, but it is approximately $5.4 million. I believe in 1960. Yep. I was going to say 1962, but it's 1960. The home. So these are just some photos of the house on the property. Obviously lots of nice natural light. There's that fire pit place in the middle of the living room with the open kitchen concept. Yes, exactly. They don't tell you how much of the price is the dry aged beef. Oh gosh. Honestly, Scott. So this is all I've been able to find, unfortunately Lenny, about it so far, but are we interested in, do we do field trips Lenny? Yeah. Can we get a golf cart from the city? Lenny, this was yours. You want to pursue? Well, I was just, I was thinking that it was a mid-century modern house. And that it needed to be saved. Yeah. And it's, it's, it looks abandoned. Okay. So these pictures don't obviously, but they don't. So question, do we know who owns it? Who shows up in the property records? And is there a possibility we could reach out and invite them here for, can we do that? So there's no guarantee that they will come. Sure, of course not. Item 4B, there is the opportunity for staff to send a letter, but we, we will have to bring that back next agenda. So Lenny, if you want to bring that back next agenda, 4B, to pursue this, I'm more than happy to do that. Well, I don't want us to get off agenda, separate clothes, including items. But do we want to continue, this is, I guess, the number to, the words to say for next, do you want to, yes. I don't want to chase it by myself. No, no, no, no, not by yourself, not by yourself. Anybody else is interested in this property because it could be a bonus to us. We have to bring that up during the potential discussion, if there's a motion passed, 4B later. Am I right, counselor? Okay. Yeah, it's either 4A or 4B next time, but during that specific topic regarding local historic destinations, just make sure you bring that back up. We can open this floor for discussion and then you all can decide at that time. Okay, perfect. Okay. Yeah. Because I'm, I still want to, I'll do a little bit more research, but I'll send it to you in the meantime, Lenny, but I think you should bring it up. Figure out who's paying the bills. So we're going to be talking to you. And, yeah, I'm interested. To be continued. To be done. We have a cliffhanger. Great. I have no more announcements. Do you have any other staff have anything? Okay. Now, commissioners, anything now? No, I think we're good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to make a motion to pursue it? Well, we can't. We can't do that. We can't do that. We've already passed 4B. We have to make that. All right. Yeah. All right. We're adjourned at 627. Thank you. Thank you.