WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.580 >> Thank you and welcome to the mobility committee meeting. It is August 28, 2024. I will note 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:23.260 that I'm running the meeting as vice chair as the chair is out today. We do have a quorum 00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:29.440 present. So I will commence with the rest of the meeting. We'll start off with citizen 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:40.280 comments on agenda items. And there is one citizen comment, Charles Lee. If you'll come 00:00:40.280 --> 00:01:04.400 up to the podium and you can state your comment. And give me one second and we'll start your 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:26.240 comments. Bear with me one second while I get the timer going. There we go. All right. 00:01:26.240 --> 00:01:32.200 And let's go ahead. >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Charles Lee. I just 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:36.000 have one quick comment. I'm not going to take the whole three minutes. I just want to speak 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:40.640 about the bike lanes and the bike lanes going up in the city. I'm saying I believe it's 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:46.120 just a waste of time and money because nobody uses the bike lanes. They're just taking up 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:51.120 road space. On Windsor Road, you have bike lanes. And I've lived there for about three 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:56.920 going on four years now. And I've only maybe seen one bicyclist on those bike lanes the 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:00.860 whole time. And it just cuts down the road traffic. And I think it's a waste of time 00:02:00.860 --> 00:02:04.200 and money. And that's pretty much all I have to say. You, ladies and gentlemen, have a 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:09.220 nice day. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Lee. Any questions 00:02:09.220 --> 00:02:11.680 for Mr. Lee? >> I have a question, please. Do you want 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:16.000 to use the microphone? >> Wow. It came on. Mr. Lee, good morning. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:22.720 Nice to see you again. Where do you live? >> I live on the second district. I live on 00:02:22.720 --> 00:02:27.600 Elm Street. But I live on -- there's a road over there I believe it's called Windsor. 00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:36.000 It goes by the -- it goes between North Elm Street and University. And there's bike lanes. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.840 If I -- I'm almost positive that's the name of the road. It's called Windsor. By where 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:43.400 the movie theater is. >> How long have you been there? 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.240 >> Like I stated previously, about three years. >> Three to four years? 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.240 >> Yes. >> Okay. So you live near Windsor Street on 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:51.240 Elm Street? >> Yes. 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.200 >> Okay. I just want to -- >> I travel around there all the time. That's 00:02:55.200 --> 00:03:01.560 the part of the city that I live in. And that is a large city. And that's -- I really don't 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.920 go to all the places in the city. That's where I live. I live on University over there. And 00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:14.280 that's my personal opinion. And I believe bike lanes are a waste of time because nobody 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:22.440 rides a bike. Everybody drives a car. And you're cutting down road space for very minimal 00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:29.000 use because nobody really uses it. >> Okay. Okay. I just wanted -- thanks a lot. 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:37.720 >> Any other comments or questions? All right. Noting none, we'll move on to the next item, 00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:49.680 which is Section 2, Item A, MC24022, consider approval of the minutes from June 22nd, 2024. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:59.200 The chair will entertain a motion. >> Motion to approve the minutes. 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:01.040 >> Is there a second? >> Second. 00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:06.920 >> All right. We have a motion to approve the minutes from Commissioner Roomer and a 00:04:06.920 --> 00:04:15.080 second from Commissioner Bray. All in favor, say aye. 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:18.320 >> Aye. >> The chair is also an aye. So the minutes 00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:31.840 pass. All right. We will move on to Item B, MC24023. We will -- considering the item of 00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:36.960 to draw lots for the mobility committee resident members' term lengths. Is there a staff presentation 00:04:36.960 --> 00:04:46.920 for this? All right. So if -- can staff briefly summarize for the public what the purpose 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:56.360 of this item is and what we're doing here? >> Good morning. So this item is just to identify 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:02.000 which term each resident member will have. One will be ending August 31st, 2025, and 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:19.000 the other one August 31st, 2026. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:32.320 I'll let Commissioner Bray go first. >> I received the term January 9th, 2024 to August 00:05:32.320 --> 00:05:34.400 31st, 2025. >> I received the term length January 9th, 00:05:34.400 --> 00:05:43.200 2024 to August 31st, 2026. >> So we have Commissioner Roomer is going 00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:54.060 to go to 2026, and Commissioner Bray's term will end in 2025. All right. Any questions 00:05:54.060 --> 00:06:05.240 or comments on this item? No? All right. Then we will move forward to Item C, MC24024, receive 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:13.360 report and hold a discussion regarding the City of Denton transportation and mobility 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.640 project status report. >> Good morning. I'm Barry Heard. I'm here 00:06:17.640 --> 00:06:27.200 for John Poster giving the report for ITS for the mobility report. Go through to the 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:38.800 first project, I-35 North. This project consists of the four projects that we have shown. The 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:48.280 work on the 074 project has just been submitted for the 100% plans. It's being updated to 00:06:48.280 --> 00:07:02.640 text.specs and the same thing with CSJ081. And those projects are north of Sanger, north 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:14.440 of 455 to north of 3002. Right now, utilities are underway from the U.S. 77 portion here 00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:22.680 in Denton to north of 455, the 074 project. There's quite a bit of utilities moving if 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:29.120 y'all have been up in that area. They've been working for approximately a year. 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:35.280 >> There was a question on this item from Commissioner Bray. 00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:47.800 >> With that 074 segment, do you know -- are you aware if there are accommodations for 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:53.320 pedestrians and cyclists at that segment? Because there is a tiny home village that's 00:07:53.320 --> 00:07:57.720 in the design for formerly homeless folks that's planning to exit on the Barthold Road. 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:02.200 I imagine those folks would be doing a lot of walking or biking. 00:08:02.200 --> 00:08:08.440 >> Yes, there is accommodations for pedestrians through a shared use path, but I can provide 00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:11.800 more detail on those. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:15.960 >> You bet. >> Any other questions on this item? All 00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:24.000 right. Going on the next item. Thanks, Barry. >> Okay. On the 35E, 35W merge, this project 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:33.680 is lit, and it's only waiting authorization for the pre-construction and to begin work. 00:08:33.680 --> 00:08:40.140 So that project is anticipated to begin very soon. 00:08:40.140 --> 00:08:52.160 You can see on the utility report, everyone that's remaining, AT&T, Charter, DME, Frontier, 00:08:52.160 --> 00:09:02.840 Level 3, everybody that is scheduled to be done towards the end of this month, which 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.080 is this week. >> Before we get going, I just had a brief 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:13.800 question on the timelines. I know our light date was April, and our relocations are August. 00:09:13.800 --> 00:09:19.200 So we're still on track for this to stay on timeline. I just -- it was a little unclear 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:24.080 from the notes. >> Yes. The project is really just waiting 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.200 for the work authorization from the district to get going. So the money is -- the project 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:35.960 is funded. No issues there. Contractor is hired. So as soon as that authorization is 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.780 given, the contractor can begin work. And the city will be invited to the pre-construction 00:09:40.780 --> 00:09:42.280 meeting. >> All right. Awesome. 00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:46.240 >> That's going to get going here in September-ish kind of thing. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.800 >> That's my estimation, yes, at this point. >> Thank you. Any other questions? 00:09:49.800 --> 00:09:54.240 All right. Let's go to the next one. >> It's a very big project. Almost $600 million, 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:09.240 as you all know. 35E at Mayhill. We're updating the plans again on this section to the 2024 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:17.120 26, which should be done by the end of the month. This is another project that the utilities 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:26.800 should be complete within the next 30 to 45 days. And then this project is currently scheduled 00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:34.720 for the ready-to-let of November 24, currently scheduled for letting in June 25, which everything 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:40.040 should be ready to go to get the funding and then move forward with construction. As far 00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:47.800 as the plans and utilities being clear, everything will be completed. 00:10:47.800 --> 00:11:05.480 35W frontage roads from roughly just north of 407 to 2449. This project $213 million project. 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:12.480 Currently the design consultant is addressing the 95% plan set and working towards completion 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:22.040 of the final plan set. As far as the right-of-way, there's 47 parcels acquired and 11 that are 00:11:22.040 --> 00:11:37.200 still to be required in condemnation. Loop 288 West. This project, as you know, has been 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:50.160 around for a number of years, but it is scheduled with an RTL of April 2026. There are five 00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:57.120 parcels, 20 parcels in total. This is probably one of the biggest things to note on this 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:03.720 project, 20 parcels in total. There are five parcels in negotiation and 15 parcels in possession. 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:12.680 However, right-of-way on those five has been put on hold by the district due to budget 00:12:12.680 --> 00:12:18.720 concerns right now. So once those are addressed, which I don't have a timeline on that, but 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:28.480 we'll keep the city informed. We'll proceed back with those five parcels. There were two 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:35.800 projects that I'm sure of in Denton County within the Dallas district. This was one with 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:45.040 the right-of-way hold and FM 1171 West, the new location. Both of these are new locations. 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:52.640 - Before we get going, I love how y'all always highlight the changes. That's great. I really 00:12:52.640 --> 00:13:01.460 appreciate that every meeting. Maybe I'm misremembering from the last report, but I thought we had 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:06.800 all the environmental clearance done. So this is clearly an issue where I didn't understand 00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:12.800 the order of events in the process. Can you update us a little bit about when we go get 00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:18.240 core approval and when that is in the process? Because I thought we'd cleared all the environmental 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:27.640 clearances. - Yes. The environmental, well, really the 00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:33.520 environmental is never clear until you complete the projects accepted by TXDOT. But the environmental 00:13:33.520 --> 00:13:40.840 clearance is ongoing throughout the project. In this particular section, the environmental 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:47.000 was clear to begin purchase right-of-way, and that's the federal requirements. However, 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:53.840 there was further coordination that had to be done with the core that's ongoing as far 00:13:53.840 --> 00:14:03.080 as the application for construction. So it is environmentally clear. TXDOT would not 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:08.920 have been able to begin the right-of-way acquisition project. There's an ongoing process with the 00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:16.920 core, which is typical on these type of projects. - So, okay. So I guess I understand that in 00:14:16.920 --> 00:14:20.880 the end. Let me summarize a little bit to make sure that, you know, there's been some 00:14:20.880 --> 00:14:27.240 preliminary clearance. It's allowed us to move forward, but there's just sort of ongoing 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:31.160 monitoring and regulation of the properties. That's sort of where we are? 00:14:31.160 --> 00:14:34.480 - Yes. Exactly. - Okay. All right. I appreciate that. Any 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.400 other questions on this item? All right. Thank you. 00:14:38.400 --> 00:14:46.680 - Okay. The Loop 280 East connector, and I saw there was a few questions that I received 00:14:46.680 --> 00:14:56.400 this morning that I can go through. Westwood, the consultant, is addressing the 60% schematic 00:14:56.400 --> 00:15:03.320 comments and as well as what was generated from the value engineering study, revising 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:08.680 the roadway alignment to add an additional lane in each direction for a total of four 00:15:08.680 --> 00:15:13.520 lanes in each direction, and I think that was one of the questions that was generated. 00:15:13.520 --> 00:15:21.560 That was based on traffic and direction from the textile Dallas district, to go ahead and 00:15:21.560 --> 00:15:30.360 ensure there's room for four lanes across the entire project. And there were a couple 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:44.200 more questions that I remember. That was one. - Commissioner, did you have a question? 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.200 Or do you want to finish with this and we'll take questions? 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.920 - Sure. TxDOT has been meeting with Southwire and the city, you know, to get any concerns 00:15:48.920 --> 00:15:56.440 they have worked out for the connector right there at 380, and we're right now responding 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:15.320 to comments to generate from last public meeting. - I guess what changed in the traffic between 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.680 the initial... - There's ongoing traffic studies just similar 00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:25.680 to the environmental as you go along, and right now these comments are related to demographic 00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:32.240 studies that y'all are gonna, I guess, talk about later, and the mobility 2050, cogs mobility 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:39.920 2050 plan. - Okay, and then one of the other questions 00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:48.520 was on the third bullet up here, at the end of the sentence it says, and adding additional 00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:55.040 lanes from and to US 380 into downtown Denton. It sounds like widening 380, but I don't think 00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:58.200 that's what that means. Can you clarify what that means? 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:04.200 - Yes, it's just right at the connection, additional lanes for the ramps and the frontage 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:10.840 road, future frontage road, that will continue to the east eventually for the new freeway. 00:17:10.840 --> 00:17:13.360 That's what the additional lanes are for the frontage road. 00:17:13.360 --> 00:17:19.480 - Okay, so that's the six to eight lanes change is also being referenced in that third bullet? 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:25.400 - Yes. - Okay, and then my last question on this one 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.760 was, DEXDOT recently finished a 10 foot side path on the north side of US 380 between May 00:17:29.760 --> 00:17:37.720 Hill and the Greenbelt, and do we have current schematics showing the routing of that, just 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.760 to make sure there's not a giant detour? - Yes, the continuation of the shared use 00:17:41.760 --> 00:17:51.120 path is shown on the loop 288 schematics. There are portions where it's on both sides 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.360 and portions where it's a sidewalk on one side and shared use on the other, but it's 00:17:55.360 --> 00:18:01.480 continuation from 35 over to 380. - Are we able to get, I mean, that's the only 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:05.480 part I'm interested in. Are we able to get sort of the current schematics? I know they 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:10.040 can change that would show that routing. - Yes, the city should have the current schematics, 00:18:10.040 --> 00:18:16.560 but we can provide an updated copy, but the engineering has the schematics I know. 00:18:16.560 --> 00:18:23.080 - Okay, thanks. - If I recall from the community meeting on 00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:31.960 this that was held a couple of months, a year ago, the side path that's going along the 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:37.000 288 portion, there was a part of it on the south side where it was not going to be present 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:43.640 because there was very tight space constraints there. I'm just curious if you happen to know 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:49.160 if that is being impacted by the expansion in Lane Count. 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:56.680 - The only place right now that's constrained is between Locust and Sherman, so to my knowledge, 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:01.160 that's the only part that's constrained. We can look into it and answer your question 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:07.960 more fully on the east end, but there was room there for the pedestrians. 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:14.280 - Okay, all right. Thank you. - I had a lot of similar questions, Barry, 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:19.480 and I apologize. Obviously, there's a new thing with lots of impacts, so there's going 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:25.160 to be a lot of curiosity and questions and concerns that we'll bring forward to you and 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:34.280 to staff. Like some of the other commissioners, I'm very much interested in actually if we 00:19:34.280 --> 00:19:38.280 could get some details on, because I didn't see it in the backup, maybe I just missed 00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:48.680 it, on the new flow and transportation metrics that led to the expansion desire. What metrics 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:55.000 are we seeing that are saying that we want to expand from six to eight lanes? What's 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:02.440 the pressure from the newest engineering results? If we do change from six to eight lanes, there's 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:09.240 a number of impacts that I thought we sort of had nailed down. Some of them were mentioned 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:16.200 like the side path alignment, what's going to happen with that one. We had talked about, 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:24.200 especially at the Kingsrow, Windsor area, the number of entrance and exit and feeder 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:31.080 lanes and how that's going to cross. I think it would be really good for the committee 00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:36.040 if staff could get us the alignments that are coming out of this. 00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:43.320 The alignments are being worked on right now, but yes, once that's complete, we can provide 00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:52.760 that for sure. I guess there was all of it. The pedestrian elements and ramping configurations 00:20:52.760 --> 00:21:00.200 won't be affected. There was always room in the middle for expansion, so that portion 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.200 of it would not be affected. Essentially, the additional lanes are going 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:10.840 to be removal of additional median. Are we going to completely close the median off and 00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:15.740 have a concrete barrier or something? There will be a barrier, similar to the one 00:21:15.740 --> 00:21:24.520 that's there now. No matter whether there's three lanes and the grass in front of it or 00:21:24.520 --> 00:21:31.760 how it's configured, the median barrier will go back no matter what. As soon as we get 00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:36.440 a little bit farther along with the design, yes, we can get that typical section over 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:42.160 to you. This is something recent that just came up. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.960 As you know, we just wanted to report on it and keep the city in the loop. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:53.920 No, I appreciate that a lot. The more engagement and the more we can keep ourselves and the 00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:00.480 public in front of it, the less concerns and fear there will be. If we're doing that then, 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:07.760 then a couple of other things that I'm not sure whether that's barrier staff. You mentioned 00:22:07.760 --> 00:22:13.120 it here, the south wire alignment. I don't know how that's impacted because they had 00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:19.400 very tight space to go around that curve in the open field of their property and still 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.680 maintain their expansion potential in that region. 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:28.680 One thing we're looking at now is for them to still have availability of parking underneath 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:37.280 the structure. That's ongoing being evaluated, so try to minimize any impact to their business. 00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:42.640 To my understanding, their current expansion that they're planning was not affected by 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:47.860 the alignment at all. It's just what they have planned in the future that they're making 00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:52.220 potential adjustments to. However, the current alignment works around that. It's just their 00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:57.840 parking was affected. We're trying to work and figure out what is needed for them to 00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:01.720 park through a joint use agreement with the city. 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:11.200 I look forward to learning and getting details about that, so I appreciate that comfort. 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:16.200 The other one is, and I feel sheepish for not remembering the business's name, but Rite 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:22.960 of Gisling is a business on the south side. That's about where the exit ramp up to the 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:31.400 bypass from the east-west section is. There were some questions about how the ramping 00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:38.000 would affect their ingress and egress to their facility and parking lot. You may know the 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.200 answer here, and if you could tell me that's cool, but otherwise, I'd love to get some 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:47.440 additional information about how this expansion potentially impacts their ingress and egress. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:55.200 Kind of ties into the answer previously on the connection. That's a portion of the frontage 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:04.080 roads for the future freeway further to the east, so we're looking at exactly how far 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:08.680 to build the frontage roads to maintain access to all those properties on the south side 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:16.120 and the north side, too. It's still in the works, I guess. It's still in design, but 00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.200 that's the point we're at with it right now. 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:27.200 I appreciate that we've had a fairly significant change, and that's causing us to reconfigure 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.840 things. A lot of that's up in the air, but the only reason I bring it up is these have 00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:41.880 been the points of concern prior, and we had reached a stable point in our understanding 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:49.520 of the alignments, and so these will be the same pressure points as we go forward now 00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:51.440 that the alignment is a little different. 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:59.640 I think, and maybe a little bit farther forward is exactly we want to maintain access for 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:05.080 all the properties, and how to get that done the best way is kind of where we're at right 00:25:05.080 --> 00:25:06.080 now. 00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:14.960 The last one I had is I'm a little unclear what we're doing at Lakeview Boulevard. Can 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.520 we describe that? I mean, I know you don't have the final alignments, but I mean, can 00:25:18.520 --> 00:25:21.760 you add a little clarity to what we think is going on at Lakeview? 00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:27.560 I'm going to have to get back with you on that one as far as providing. 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:28.560 Okay, that's fine. That's fine. 00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:33.920 But that's kind of the same point. All this ties in together at that same location, and 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:38.840 the consultant's working through several options, working with the district, us, and the city 00:25:38.840 --> 00:25:43.200 to determine what we're going to move forward with. 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:50.600 Okay. No, I appreciate that. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. Now, staff 00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:55.660 on the other hand, I'm going to put them on the staff. No, I'm kidding. Okay, so any other 00:25:55.660 --> 00:26:00.360 questions on this? All right. Thank you. 00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:08.460 Okay, moving on to the next section, Bonnie Bray. We keep this in here. We're working 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:19.680 with the city to make sure this project is still being worked on with the Loop 288 expansion. 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:32.320 FM 1515. This is another one that we're going to have 100% plans that are being updated 00:26:32.320 --> 00:26:43.000 to the 2014 specifications. Expect that to be completed soon. I think there was some 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:52.680 things that they went back on recently for another update, but that should be done. Atmos 00:26:52.680 --> 00:27:00.040 is in their final design, and this project is scheduled for leading currently, ready 00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:08.600 to lead in June 2025. It's currently unfunded. As soon as the funding is available, this 00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:12.680 project should be ready to go. So there's another project we're going to have the plans 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:18.280 ready to go on the shelf, shovel ready as soon as funding is available. 00:27:18.280 --> 00:27:23.280 Go ahead. Forgive my ignorance. Is this a new road? 00:27:23.280 --> 00:27:27.480 No, that is Airport Road. Airport Road. I got it. 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:33.080 Yes, sir. Thank you. No, and I appreciate Councilor 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:40.000 Holland is newish to the Mobility Committee, and he has come up to speed very quickly. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:48.880 We appreciate that. I'm going to follow up from his question. I know that in prior questioning 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:54.240 we'd had for this segment, there'd been a lot of concern as we go to do utility realignments 00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:03.440 because it's really dense in utilities because it's an industrial area. Some questions I'd 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:11.520 ask John, as part of this getting ready to let and designing our plans, I know we have 00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:18.840 to design what are the interim flow patterns that we're going to use when we're closing 00:28:18.840 --> 00:28:30.600 up segments? Is that still on target so far? There's not really a concern. There's a lot 00:28:30.600 --> 00:28:37.960 going on here, and that's going to cause you all to do a lot of work. My question is more, 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.520 there's so much going on, are we still on target kind of thing? 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:49.040 There's a lot of facilities out there. There's a lot of employees affected. You don't want 00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:54.400 them to be late for work or getting home and the whole thing. That's one thing. The goal 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:59.920 is to maintain the same or better through all the traffic control that's existing there 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:07.480 right now. And that's the way the project is designed, the traffic control is laid out. 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:14.780 So I don't know if that answers your question. So I guess when we get to that point, because 00:29:14.780 --> 00:29:22.280 I know it's not yet, but could we have a future item where, and it may just be part of the 00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:26.740 normal standard, so I may be asking for something you're going to do anyway, but could the committee 00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:34.000 get an overview of what the temporary traffic flow patterns are expected to be while we 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:39.960 do these upgrades? I feel bad for all these industries. There's just the one road, or 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:46.680 I guess there's a, what's the north-south segment there? Thank you, western. So there 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:52.000 is some pressure release there, but there's just so much going on that it gets real tight. 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:59.120 It's better than it was, but this still, the east-west part needs to be, has needed to 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:06.360 be upgraded for several years. This project has been around quite a while itself. So when 00:30:06.360 --> 00:30:10.360 that becomes available, I'd love for the committee to be able to see some sort of summary of 00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:15.600 what we think the traffic is, just so we can stay in the know and help the public understand 00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:31.600 what is coming for them. Okay, understood. All right, 1173. The 95% plan set was submitted 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:40.680 for review to the district about a month ago, and it's still under review. Once those comments 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:48.160 are back, the consultant will address those. Half is our consultants working on the exhibit 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:59.440 A with BNSF. And this project is currently moving utilities. There's a number of, let's 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:11.240 see what the right-of-way is here. I know there's a few parts of the right-of-way still 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:23.280 left. I'll get those also. And the utilities are currently moving. Is there any questions 00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:28.200 on this one? I don't see any of them from them, but I did have one. Are we still on 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:38.280 track with BNSF on the realignment from 1173 up for the crossing? Yes. Because they often 00:31:38.280 --> 00:31:48.800 can be a barrier to progress. And no offense to them. There's the section through the, 00:31:48.800 --> 00:31:53.200 right there. Are you talking about just east of downtown? Moving the crossing? Yes. Yeah. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:01.000 No, I'm here at this site. Because we were going to close that 1173 and move the crossing 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:11.800 to Bartold. And that's going to be dead-ended at that curve, as I understand? That's actually 00:32:11.800 --> 00:32:16.600 an easier, that's actually moved faster than the crossing to the east of downtown. We're 00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:21.320 working with the BNSF on the width of the crossing, and the crossing gates are existing 00:32:21.320 --> 00:32:28.640 and proposed through there. So really, the crossing at the, in the downtown area is a 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:34.760 little bit farther behind, but everything is still scheduled to be done by ready to 00:32:34.760 --> 00:32:42.200 let of August 2025. Well, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, we don't 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:51.400 have any controllers to say over Chrome. So we'll leave that one where it is. Okay. The 00:32:51.400 --> 00:33:02.080 outer loop is on schedule for our original schedule. Schematic approval is still scheduled 00:33:02.080 --> 00:33:12.240 for December 2025 and environmental clearance of the summer of '26. We're coordinating with 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:21.360 other agencies. There's a scoping meeting planned for, it says August 24th, August, 00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:31.920 but I think it's actually scheduled for September 4th, that the city will be, will be at City 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:40.720 Staff. The, the, the community has seen the preliminary layout on alignment maps, but 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:45.760 I'm not sure, Councilor Holland, have you seen those maps? So if staff, could you get, 00:33:45.760 --> 00:33:49.600 I mean, so we don't have Councilor Holland having to force to go back to the records. 00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:55.040 Could we get him the maps so that he can review those? Cause I don't know that they've been 00:33:55.040 --> 00:34:01.880 fully completely made public, but the community has seen them. So. And one thing to, to, on 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:08.800 all the outer loops that we have, Rockwall, Kauffman, Denton, even Brazos, if you go to 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:13.760 the Denton County outer loop.com, there is a lot of information. If you want to skim 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:20.760 through the background really fast to learn how we got here, it is really, we put everything 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:26.160 on there. I've been to a couple of meetings. But we have that, that high school meeting 00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:32.320 had 12 alignments. I think we're down to two or three as I recall. Well, essentially two, 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:38.520 but there's three or four that have had, it depends on how the, how it's set up. So we're, 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:44.960 I would say roughly four, four alignments at this point still. Yeah. And that, that 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:53.760 way we bring Councilor Holland up to speed in case he has any, any questions and concerns. 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.000 I just want him on the same page as the rest of us who've had the opportunity to see that 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:08.400 map. The, now I know that, and I brought this up with John in the past. I know that Texas 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:14.920 Parks and Wildlife has been reviewing the Greenbelt area for, for potential, I forget 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:21.640 the name of the fund, Millennial Fund or something, expansion of the Greenbelt areas. There's, 00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:26.020 there's nothing written in stone, but that is, that is in play right now. Is that having 00:35:26.020 --> 00:35:36.240 any interaction with the planning? Yes. I mean, we're coordinating with all governmental 00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:46.880 agencies. There's Texas Parks and Wildlife, there's the US Fish and Wildlife EPA, a number 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:53.560 of different agencies that, that we're coordinating with on the, on the project. So as far as 00:35:53.560 --> 00:36:00.160 there's every thing is, is being evaluated as far as the different alignments or what 00:36:00.160 --> 00:36:06.920 we can do within that core area through the Greenbelt. Through the Greenbelt. The last 00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:13.600 time we touched base, we were talking about potential to save the bridge because it's 00:36:13.600 --> 00:36:19.800 a historical bridge. We'd been taught the Aubrey Bridge there at, at the Greenbelt. 00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:25.080 We'd been talking about a stacked alignment. Is that still the plan or we're moving that 00:36:25.080 --> 00:36:31.560 around? Cause I know that was somewhat influx. It's still influx. There's the stacked option 00:36:31.560 --> 00:36:37.760 is the option that gets through with no additional right away needed. However, to make a safer 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:46.320 facility they, there is a desire to, to get the expansion at some point, expand the right 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:56.120 away where the stacked option is not, is not the best option. However, that option will, 00:36:56.120 --> 00:37:03.720 can be constructed without any additional right away from tech stock. It's basically, 00:37:03.720 --> 00:37:12.520 we've got all the lanes over the other lanes as far as the actual freeway. So it comes 00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:22.600 together. They go here and then really. Okay. It's, that's approximately about a mile and 00:37:22.600 --> 00:37:28.960 a half across there currently. So that would be, that's right now that a constricted section 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:35.120 based on the current, I think it's like 150 something feet of right away that tech stock 00:37:35.120 --> 00:37:45.360 currently owns at 428. There's a lot of moving parts there. So, and, and, and, but we're 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:52.040 working through different options and it just is going to take a lot more coordination, 00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:59.600 which that's the route that we're going. And I'm presuming, go ahead. I'm presuming the 00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:07.920 trade-off is, is a higher construction cost versus condon, condonation of, of property. 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:15.840 Well, through there is all the core property. Oh. So, they're mainly more of a safety issue 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:23.080 than anything else is, is, is a driving force of that. Wanting to get away from the stacked 00:38:23.080 --> 00:38:24.080 option. 00:38:24.080 --> 00:38:31.040 Barry, can you update Councilor Holland on, on how the state interacts with the, with 00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:34.320 federal departments in situations like this? 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:41.640 It begins with the early coordination. ITS has been very successful in the past of working 00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:49.560 with the core on 2449 and various different projects that the core has jurisdiction on 00:38:49.560 --> 00:38:56.800 in the County. And so that's one, that's the, the first piece is just having a, a strong 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:02.040 working background. And then, as far as on the design side, it's just working through 00:39:02.040 --> 00:39:06.280 all these different options and, and getting everything done at the lowest level possible 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.600 before pushing it up the, up the chain. So, 00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:16.280 We don't have control over the federal government. They, they are a bigger entity than us. So 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:19.080 they, they set the rules. 00:39:19.080 --> 00:39:28.920 All right. And then, is there any other questions on that one? 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:29.920 No. All right. 00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:39.440 Moving on to Elm and Locust, as I'm sure y'all are aware, the contractor south of downtown 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:44.380 has everything pretty much done except for striping, pavement markings and, and different 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:49.840 things, but they're now working on the, on the section on the square. So to my understanding 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:56.840 that's got a timeline at the end of the month, I believe, the end of September, I think. 00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:03.040 So they're making every effort to get that, that done. 00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:10.200 Questions on this? I know this had a lot of a, a public heartburn. Go ahead. 00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:15.720 This is likely more for, for our staff. But I've noticed that the detour route, we've 00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:22.840 added quite a few stop signs around town. And one of them is at Cedar and McKinney. 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:27.840 And that, if you're headed westbound on that one, that stop sign I think is not getting 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.260 noticed by a lot of drivers. Folks are not, they're speeding through it, which if other 00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:35.680 folks are expecting traffic to be stopped because they know that there's a stop sign 00:40:35.680 --> 00:40:40.000 there, I think that could cause some issues. So I was just hoping staff could maybe go 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:45.480 out, have a look see, see about maybe a stop bar or slightly moving the location of the 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:52.920 sign for better visibility or something. Is there a response before I change the floor? 00:40:52.920 --> 00:41:00.160 Yeah, I'm happy to take a look at it. We'll have staff look at it. 00:41:00.160 --> 00:41:04.200 Can we still remember? I was just going to build on that, that I 00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:09.680 almost didn't notice the stop sign. But I was like, am I supposed to stop here? So yeah, 00:41:09.680 --> 00:41:12.720 so some kind of clarification. Like I saw the stop sign, but I was like, maybe it's 00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:19.920 in the wrong spot. So yeah, something to clarify that I did stop, but I was confused. 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:25.320 And we'll, I'll also notify TxDOT. I know Chandra will also. 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:31.040 Yeah, as we, I mean, this is a high traffic area and I know that we have some of those 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:38.040 LED outline stop signs that, you know, really make it clear to the public, some other mechanism 00:41:38.040 --> 00:41:45.280 to really make it clear to the public that there is a, there is a change happening. And 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:54.880 now, and this, my comment is I'm, I'm concerned about, you know, two elements of this. It's 00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.300 a temporary thing. I know, you know, it's just a highly congested area in a, in a well 00:41:59.300 --> 00:42:05.320 trafficked area. And so there's just going to be growing pains. But, so this is, these 00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:17.020 questions are that, that sort of eat a north south segment along. What is it? Austin? No, 00:42:17.020 --> 00:42:24.560 what is, what is just the East road from the square? Is it Austin? Yes. So that one, that's 00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:31.600 going to have a lot of new traffic and it's, it's, it's heavily pedestrian, heavily cycled, 00:42:31.600 --> 00:42:39.000 heavily food trucked. And, and because of the proximity of some of our entertainment 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:48.480 events, there's going to be a lot of bike ped people that are probably not fully mentally 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:53.040 competent. I'm trying to talk about drunk people walking around there from the bars. 00:42:53.040 --> 00:42:58.880 I'm just going to lay the cards out there. And so that, that concerns me greatly that 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:04.960 we have appropriate traffic measures. Even, I understand they're temporary, but there, 00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:11.920 there's no such thing as a temporary accident with a pedestrian. Understood. Yeah. That's 00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:17.520 one thing, especially when you're doing a project and accelerated as what the work on 00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:25.960 the square currently is. There is a concern, safety concerns for sure. One consideration 00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:33.960 could be, you know, getting information out on your website or different things to, to 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:41.080 notify the public of, not just the, not just the construction ongoing, but the timelines 00:43:41.080 --> 00:43:50.480 and different things, different detour routes that can be, that can be put on there. A good 00:43:50.480 --> 00:44:00.480 example I think is SM Wright Parkway. There's a website that TechStat maintains that shows 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.560 a lot of different detour routes that's currently ongoing. They have a lot of project history 00:44:05.560 --> 00:44:11.760 just like the outer loop does, but there's also a page that addresses everything. And 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:19.440 that's related to ongoing construction and traffic control is a very good example. Back 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:26.040 on the, the segment of Elm and Locust that was just reconstructed or repaved in a previous 00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:29.360 meeting. I don't think you were at this one, but I asked if we were going to have the opportunity 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:34.800 to do the striping ourselves or somehow change the design of the striping. And the answer 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:39.820 was yes, we would be able to. However, I haven't heard any of those discussions. So I'm assuming 00:44:39.820 --> 00:44:45.960 it might be too late. Yeah. So I'm going to assume it's probably too late to come up with 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:51.600 a new plan or something like that. And if it is too late, I'm curious if TechStat has 00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:58.200 a striping plan that we can see. I have seen when they restriped the Elm and Locust north 00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:05.440 of McKinney between McKinney and University, for example, they super narrowed the shoulder. 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.640 And so a lot of people were biking on that. And now if you bike in that, because it's 00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:13.240 so narrow, cars are a lot closer to you. Somebody almost got hit in the head with a rearview 00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:16.680 mirror one time. So, so I'm just curious if they're, if they're going to change anything, 00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:20.600 if we don't, if we're not changing anything, I guess. Sure. So Trevor Crane, director of 00:45:20.600 --> 00:45:27.160 Capital Projects. So TechStat is going to put it back just like it was for now. So where 00:45:27.160 --> 00:45:30.680 you're currently working through that turn back process, it's actually at the Dallas 00:45:30.680 --> 00:45:35.640 district now. Once this construction is complete, that turn back will come back to council for 00:45:35.640 --> 00:45:41.160 final approval. And then the city of Denton will take over the ownership of those roads. 00:45:41.160 --> 00:45:45.800 The plan is once we finish our Elm and Locust phase two, which is the project that goes 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:50.800 from McKinney north to 380, then we'll work with our transportation planning team to evaluate 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:55.440 that entire corridor. And we will have the opportunity to change kind of configurations, 00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:00.360 striping, those types of things. The only stipulation is that we, we cannot do a road 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:04.120 diet. So we have to keep the same amount of traffic on there, but it doesn't necessarily 00:46:04.120 --> 00:46:09.400 mean we can't, you know, limit lanes or narrow those or anything like that. So that will, 00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:13.660 that will be something that we come back and look at as a part with our transportation 00:46:13.660 --> 00:46:16.640 planning team to determine what that looks like moving forward. So we will have that 00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:21.840 opportunity. All right. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Trevor. I'm going to follow up 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:27.360 from there. I mean, to the extent that we can, I understand that bureaucratically we 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:32.080 have to have the ownership of the road to control it, but to the extent that we can 00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:39.040 interoperate and, and, and reduce the number of construction events and striping events 00:46:39.040 --> 00:46:44.520 because it would be better to do, I mean, if you're finalizing the, the physical concrete 00:46:44.520 --> 00:46:50.440 and asphalt and then it would be lovely to strike what we can in advance rather than 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:55.400 to have a second event interfere with our fall entertainment cycle, which brings in 00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:01.640 all our value added tax and sales tax to the community and allows us to pay for the striping 00:47:01.640 --> 00:47:08.200 in the first place. It would be lovely if we could integrate that as much as possible. 00:47:08.200 --> 00:47:15.040 As far as the tech stock side, I'll relay that information. And I know the city will 00:47:15.040 --> 00:47:22.440 also, once the strippers are mobilized, they'll, they'll get it done within, you know, three, 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:27.600 three days is what I'm asking, estimating. So the main thing is, is to, to get them out 00:47:27.600 --> 00:47:32.080 there as soon as it's done and I'll relay that concern. And I think tech stock's already 00:47:32.080 --> 00:47:38.160 aware of it for sure, but I'll, I'll just say that you mentioned it. I appreciate that. 00:47:38.160 --> 00:47:44.960 My, any other questions? I do have one more. Okay. So, um, this is not a Barry question. 00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:50.520 This is a staff question and it is on the edge of mobility as, as we drift into economic 00:47:50.520 --> 00:48:02.040 development. And, um, for these kinds of mobility projects that have an economic impact on businesses, 00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:08.440 I would love it if staff could bring to this committee or council, whichever is appropriate, 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:15.560 um, some sort of, uh, plan for mitigating the pain, uh, for economic development and 00:48:15.560 --> 00:48:22.400 whether that's a sort of a construction insurance kind of approach or, or something like that, 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:29.440 because it is painful during our high use months for these businesses. And it, it, it's 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:36.480 potentially, uh, you know, door shutting for some of them. I've already got an item scheduled 00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:43.000 for September 10th to talk about that council. Excellent. You're, you're telepathic. I appreciate 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:48.760 that. Any other questions on this item? All right. Thanks for that concludes our report 00:48:48.760 --> 00:49:08.360 for the mobility portion. Thank you. All right. So moving on we'll go to, uh, item D, MC24025 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:14.000 receiver porthole discussion regarding the NCTC, uh, demographic projection updates for 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:25.800 regional travel demand forecast models. Good morning chair, um, and, uh, committee members, 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:33.400 uh, Farhan Bhatt, deputy director of transportation services division. I'm here to present a 2050 00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:38.680 demographic forecast process that, uh, uh, North central Texas council of government 00:49:38.680 --> 00:49:45.440 is following and, uh, in that process, they are also seeking feedback from, uh, local 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.700 jurisdictions and, uh, and other, uh, key players in the region. Uh, this is an extremely 00:49:51.700 --> 00:49:58.040 important process for, for, uh, for, uh, for jurisdictions as well as for NCTCOG, because, 00:49:58.040 --> 00:50:05.600 uh, this process relies on a lot of data sets that, uh, go into, uh, uh, predicting 00:50:05.600 --> 00:50:11.720 what the future would look like for the region. And then the, these data sets then inform 00:50:11.720 --> 00:50:16.520 their, uh, a modeling tool and forecasting tool that they use, which I'll talk about 00:50:16.520 --> 00:50:21.560 in later slides and, and, uh, present some scenarios, but the future would look like. 00:50:21.560 --> 00:50:27.880 So it is, uh, important for cities and counties and, and other key stakeholders to provide 00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:34.480 updated feedback for these demographic data sets, uh, so that the developments that are 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:43.560 taking place now or in future, they are well represented. Uh, this, uh, presentation will 00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:49.800 include some information on base data. Uh, that is the data where, uh, this demographic 00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:56.480 data sets are, uh, are rooting from, and then it will also talk about county level, uh, 00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:02.600 data targets or, or targets or forecasts that are set in stone. That will not, that are, 00:51:02.600 --> 00:51:07.520 that we cannot change because they are county level targets and they are set by, uh, and 00:51:07.520 --> 00:51:13.520 NCTCOG's forecasting process. And then we'll talk about preliminary demographics that they 00:51:13.520 --> 00:51:18.840 have presented in the form of their preferred scenario, uh, through their modeling process 00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:24.320 and through which they are saying that, okay, this is, these are the demographics for certain 00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:30.280 years and please review these. And if you disagree or agree, just provide, uh, we could 00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:35.820 provide our feedback to NCTCOG and we have an opportunity to make those changes so that 00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:41.880 our transportation investments are reflected in their, in their model, uh, forecast model. 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:49.520 Um, I'll also briefly discuss or present estimated traffic congestion levels in now and in future 00:51:49.520 --> 00:51:55.480 and how it is predicted or forecasted to be changed and, and how it may impact our region. 00:51:55.480 --> 00:52:00.760 And then demand flow paths of least resistance where they have a modeling approach where 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:07.960 they are seeing and they're trying to capture how, if we don't have any, uh, latency or 00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:13.080 any condition, then where people would go. And it kind of reflects how the demographics 00:52:13.080 --> 00:52:19.600 will change in our region. And then, uh, I'm gonna, in the end, I'll, uh, provide information 00:52:19.600 --> 00:52:24.400 on local review process that the city staff is following and how we are making sure that 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:29.000 all our developments are updated and updated in this demographic data, uh, forecasting 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:36.160 process. So we begin with base data where, which is, which is essentially the current 00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:44.800 data set that, uh, uh, that, uh, NCTCOG is following this data set includes, uh, demographic 00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:52.480 essentials like, uh, population, employment, average household size, average income, and 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:56.520 lots of other information. In fact, employment is classified, re-classified into different 00:52:56.520 --> 00:53:05.640 groups based on how different land uses are changing. And then, uh, this data is extracted 00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:11.880 from many stable data sources, including census data sets, journey to work data, American 00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:19.440 community survey, uh, and, and, and, and other parcel level data sets. Going to the demographic 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:26.200 synthesis side, there is a very well-defined process that NCTCOG follows where, uh, they 00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:31.880 take this all, uh, data from data sources, stable data sources, and then they develop 00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:36.480 a how synthesis for different categories. For example, households, as I said, average 00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:43.860 income, they would just specify that by different, uh, geography levels. Auto ownership is one 00:53:43.860 --> 00:53:50.440 of the, uh, key variable that helps assess, helps us assess how the equity side of the 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.240 story is when it comes to our region, and then population and employment, of course. 00:53:55.240 --> 00:54:00.480 And this also include markets and activity capture, where once this, these data sets 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:07.760 are available, then NCTCOG goes further, uh, in, in, uh, deep dive these data sets and 00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:13.960 try to figure out where these activities are and how, uh, the transportation investments, 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:20.000 uh, could weigh what, what potential scenarios are. This, this, uh, market capture basically 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:26.880 helps the stakeholders in, including NCTCOG and cities to develop scenarios to test on 00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:32.720 the models. And then finally, scenario analysis is conducted using forecast, travel demand 00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:37.320 forecast models. These models are regional in nature. They are aggregated in nature, 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:44.800 and, uh, the purpose is to, uh, see, uh, return on investment, uh, when it comes to transportation 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:49.880 decision, informed decision making process, and see on aggregate level on regional scale 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:55.920 what projects should, how the project should prioritize and which project should be prioritized, 00:54:55.920 --> 00:55:05.040 should be prioritized, and then also where, which jurisdiction would get these fundings. 00:55:05.040 --> 00:55:10.820 Talking about this, uh, uh, base data set, so this is the resolution that model sees. 00:55:10.820 --> 00:55:17.480 This shows, uh, different land uses, city limits, subdivisions, parks, block groups, 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:22.240 and these, these are just selected, uh, uh, data information that I'm showing here. But 00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:28.520 this could go a little bit, uh, more in depth, and I could show you in the next slide. But, 00:55:28.520 --> 00:55:34.880 uh, just to give us an idea that these blue lines, um, that we are seeing, they are traffic 00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:41.600 analysis zones or traffic service zones. These zones are the resolution that are, the data 00:55:41.600 --> 00:55:47.820 resolution that is fed to, uh, the model. Uh, to understand it better, we, we could 00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:53.160 go, when it comes to data, we could go to the block group level and define where, what 00:55:53.160 --> 00:55:59.720 land uses look like. But for the model, we use traffic analysis zones, zones, and that 00:55:59.720 --> 00:56:05.080 is where the information is aggregated for the models and fed to the model. So what it 00:56:05.080 --> 00:56:09.640 essentially means is that all those variables that I was talking about, uh, average income 00:56:09.640 --> 00:56:16.560 and population and employment, they are aggregated to traffic analysis zones. This is another 00:56:16.560 --> 00:56:23.240 example where this is the working, um, file where we could, uh, when the local jurisdictions 00:56:23.240 --> 00:56:28.400 are reviewing the data sets, they could review in a finer resolution at a grid level or block 00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:39.200 group level or census tract level. This, uh, slide shows, um, the county forecast 00:56:39.200 --> 00:56:44.560 targets for population, which means that these targets are set in stone for these years. 00:56:44.560 --> 00:56:52.480 2019 is the base year, and then we have 2035, 2050 horizons for, uh, for the projected 00:56:52.480 --> 00:57:01.880 years. What's important is that we could see for Denton, uh, between 2019 and 2050, um, 00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:08.480 we have significant, uh, population increase. And, uh, so that shows that how the population 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:14.160 numbers will change with the compound and will growth rate of 2.5%. And the population 00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:21.920 is increasing to, uh, more than 112%, uh, the percentage between 2019 and 2050. With 00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:27.040 the same, we have county forecast targets employment. Uh, we have, this is also set 00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:35.040 in stone and we have, uh, we can see that for Denton County, we have around 127% increase 00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:41.320 with 2.7% growth rate. So that means we are more than doubling in, when it comes to employment 00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:49.760 numbers for our county, for Denton County. This slide presents the largest cities ranking 00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:57.800 for 2019, uh, it reflects that Denton was not in top 10 cities when it comes to population, 00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:05.120 but then by 2035 Denton appears to be coming around, uh, eighth or ninth in ranking. And 00:58:05.120 --> 00:58:13.140 then in 2050, uh, it goes to seventh, uh, most populated city in the county. The same 00:58:13.140 --> 00:58:20.880 goes for the employment. Employment actually goes faster. By 2035, uh, we will be, uh, 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:30.320 seventh. And then by 2050, we will be, uh, sixth, uh, largest city by, in terms of employment. 00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:36.880 The growth in employment between 2019 and 50 is, uh, uh, more than doubled. It's, it's, 00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:43.080 uh, it's growing fast. And this is not county level. This is city level, by the way. So 00:58:43.080 --> 00:58:54.880 when it comes to city of Denton, these slides show, um, uh, the, the change in, um, in demographics, 00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:00.680 how they are changing in terms of population density. Uh, I could just quickly move to 00:59:00.680 --> 00:59:07.120 the next slide so that I could show you how it changes. So this is 2019 and see how the, 00:59:07.120 --> 00:59:14.320 I wish if you could load the PowerPoint. Do we have a PowerPoint access here? No. Okay. 00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:19.280 We could just live with that. No problem. So I think this is, uh, uh, this, this reflects 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:24.980 the change and, um, I could point out some areas. So for instance, if you go between 00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:32.200 on the west side, um, uh, where it says Denton, if you see south of that in the next slide, 00:59:32.200 --> 00:59:39.480 you could see how the growth is changing. Yeah, we could do that. So, yeah, so this 00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:47.040 area is, uh, chaining fast and then let's, let's see, uh, look at the growth now again 00:59:47.040 --> 00:59:52.360 in Denton. So I think when it comes to population density, uh, it shows that significant growth 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:58.520 is coming. Um, it's, it's given and, and, uh, it's, even though it's a forecasting process, 00:59:58.520 --> 01:00:04.320 but I know that the forecasting process has 10, 10, 10 to 15% variability. Uh, we won't, 01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:10.160 uh, have much variation in that. So it's coming when it comes to employment, uh, it's again 01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:18.520 the same as the tables reflected. Um, I presented earlier, um, we have Denton County here and 01:00:18.520 --> 01:00:27.160 then look how the colors are changing again. And this is 2019 to 2035 and then, and then 01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:32.840 again 2050. So significant changes coming when it comes to employment and population 01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:38.440 demographics and then average household size may stay stable, but then, uh, these numbers 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:44.800 are changing fast, which is, um, from transportation planning perspective, it is a concern because 01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:49.600 I'll show you in next slides how the traffic condition levels are changing here. Uh, so 01:00:49.600 --> 01:00:56.160 in terms of traffic condition, this map is showing you 2019. This is Denton area at, 01:00:56.160 --> 01:01:04.680 uh, 20, 20, 23 levels of congestion. Uh, and then look how traffic condition changes in 01:01:04.680 --> 01:01:12.400 2045 and look how it changes in 2050. So, so that is a measure of, uh, some measure 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:18.600 of when, when we say that it's, uh, around $30 billion, it includes a lot of variables, 01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:25.560 time loss, productivity, economic benefits, environmental pollution, where the VHD increases 01:01:25.560 --> 01:01:30.680 if the cars are idle in traffic condition and a lot more. There are many variables that 01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:35.480 are captured in there, but I could, maybe we could talk about it offline. But before 01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:41.880 you continue to these models include the updates, like we talked about this morning with ITS 01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:46.920 or are they with the old configuration? Uh, no. So I'm coming to those slides, uh, in, 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:52.040 in, uh, maybe a minute or two, it will be there and you will have, um, uh, full understanding 01:01:52.040 --> 01:01:58.720 of how the process would work on that. Uh, so, uh, and this, uh, these slides show paths 01:01:58.720 --> 01:02:04.960 of least resistance, which means that they remove all the latency or any delays in the 01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:08.800 model and every state is treated equally. And then they said, okay, where people would 01:02:08.800 --> 01:02:15.840 go. So when that opportunity was given, how, look how, uh, Denton's, uh, this is Denton 01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:24.000 County again and how it changes in the, uh, the, the, the, the access point for desired 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:28.600 lines are showing that there is, there are, uh, uh, there is more and more desire to travel 01:02:28.600 --> 01:02:36.900 to, um, Denton and, and northern areas in, in comparison to Dallas, just Dallas. So to, 01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:42.160 to address your question on local review process or we will, do we provide update to the NCT 01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:48.320 COG? Yes, that is the whole, uh, purpose of this exercise is where NCT COG is reaching 01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:52.840 out to local jurisdiction and asking that, look, this is our forecast. We followed a 01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:59.240 certain process based on, um, a statistical synthesis and then modeling approaches, which 01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:04.400 are stable, which are calibrated, validated, and, and, but they are regional in nature. 01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:10.640 So they are saying, uh, this is your opportunity, cities and counties look at these numbers. 01:03:10.640 --> 01:03:15.000 If you disagree, if you have more developments, please improve that, update that, give us 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:21.720 the justification for that and we will update our forecast, our, our numbers. And so, um, 01:03:21.720 --> 01:03:27.280 so at, at city of Denton, there's an application tool that they have provided us access to 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:33.240 and we are using that tool to update these numbers. City, at city of Denton, uh, several 01:03:33.240 --> 01:03:39.080 departments, uh, we have formed a team, transportation services has formed a team where we have several 01:03:39.080 --> 01:03:44.400 departments working staff from several departments working together, looking at forecast. And, 01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:49.000 um, as a matter of fact, we had a couple of meetings before we have another meeting coming 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:55.960 tomorrow. We will be finalizing these forecasts and we'll be updating, uh, NCT COG with these 01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:01.040 forecasts by the timeline set, which is I think August, uh, end of August. And we are 01:04:01.040 --> 01:04:06.760 on time. We are, we are just collaborating with, uh, many staff from, uh, from different 01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:13.080 departments on this. This in, so this process, local review process includes review of households, 01:04:13.080 --> 01:04:19.400 population and employment, uh, projects in terms of projects, projects, developments, 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:24.360 uh, any environmental concerns that we have, we will get feedback from environmental services 01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:30.520 department on that. Uh, we have 2019 data. We are reviewing those datasets. We are looking 01:04:30.520 --> 01:04:36.480 at projections as well. And in terms of what developments we have, we will make those changes 01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:41.160 when it comes to population and employment. And, and, uh, if there are other categories 01:04:41.160 --> 01:04:46.400 as well, we are not in the beginning, we are not working on the TAZ level, but we are working 01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:51.800 on the, um, uh, finer resolution level as the data comes. As a matter of fact, we have 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:57.760 also contacted many developers to get feedback on their developments. We have contacted medical 01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:06.960 facilities, uh, UNT, TW, we reached out to TW, uh, you and, and, and many other regional 01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:14.440 stakeholders for their feedback on how their developments will be changing. Uh, our contact 01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:20.760 points, uh, for, for the update process for departments, uh, team, departmental team that 01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:25.580 we have formed is, uh, Charlie Rosendahl and, uh, Greg Scott. Greg Scott in transportation 01:05:25.580 --> 01:05:31.100 services is leading this effort, uh, to updating the demographics and to, to steering the, 01:05:31.100 --> 01:05:36.120 the direction that we want to choose. Um, I'm available, also available to address any 01:05:36.120 --> 01:05:47.560 questions on, um, interaction with NCTCOG or, or overall process. Um, that's all. 01:05:47.560 --> 01:05:54.240 Questions for Dr. Budd. Hey, Farhan, thank you so much for your presentation. Um, I, 01:05:54.240 --> 01:05:59.720 I think in the news recently, I think it was somebody from NCTCOG was saying, um, that 01:05:59.720 --> 01:06:04.240 in the long term, they're not gonna have the funding to keep expanding highways to kind 01:06:04.240 --> 01:06:09.240 of keep up with, um, growth of automobile traffic. I'm curious if, um, the congestion 01:06:09.240 --> 01:06:13.640 maps we saw, if those traffic models assume that we stick to what we're doing now, where 01:06:13.640 --> 01:06:18.640 we prioritize, I mean, the reality is most people are driving alone in a car. There's, 01:06:18.640 --> 01:06:22.540 sometimes there's a passenger, sometimes there's not. Um, is the traffic model sort of assuming 01:06:22.540 --> 01:06:27.940 that that's kind of what we continue to do is prioritize, um, single occupancy vehicle 01:06:27.940 --> 01:06:32.680 trips or, and we're not really investing in the more efficient people movers like transit 01:06:32.680 --> 01:06:38.120 biking, walking, that kind of thing. Uh, NCTCOG is highlighting this fact as well and they're 01:06:38.120 --> 01:06:44.840 just, um, proposing that the region as a whole start thinking about multimodal, um, uh, use 01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:51.120 and they're, uh, they are working with a process that is called Transit 2.0. Uh, that's, uh, 01:06:51.120 --> 01:06:56.800 been developed and where, uh, NCTCOG has highlighted their, uh, suggestions for cities and local 01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:03.120 jurisdictions and they are willing to work with each, uh, city, uh, to, to address any 01:07:03.120 --> 01:07:09.320 issues to prioritize those projects. If the cities bring them forward, we are a part of 01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:15.880 that process. I am, um, uh, representing city in, in, in that effort, but then of course 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:21.220 we will get feedback from city leadership as well as, uh, based on our, uh, our own 01:07:21.220 --> 01:07:26.160 analysis as well and then we'll make sure that we provide, uh, multimodal solutions. 01:07:26.160 --> 01:07:34.960 Other, other questions? Go ahead. Um, I've got a few here. Um, so I know from kind of 01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:39.800 reading around that there are, there are at least quite a few studies that suggest that 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:46.320 historically traffic projection studies have been quite wrong and have a tendency to overestimate, 01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:52.240 uh, traffic, especially like a decade or two out into the future. Uh, do we know anything 01:07:52.240 --> 01:07:58.480 about like, have adjustments been made to the model on account of those studies or, 01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:03.520 um, like, do we know how accurate the model that we're working with tends to be? So what 01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:08.960 happens is that these aggregate models, they are calibrated and validated and then there's 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:15.960 a Delphi, uh, review panels, uh, which, uh, assess the models, be it FT, uh, FDA for multimodal 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:25.100 use and FHWA for auto use. And, uh, so on, on arterial level, these models are well calibrated. 01:08:25.100 --> 01:08:28.960 And when I say well calibrated, that means that there are standards specified by FHWA 01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:33.920 where they have, for freeways, for example, the criteria is much stricter where they say 01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:42.000 5%. Not, uh, the volumes, uh, differences should not be more than 5%. For arterials, 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:47.640 it ranges between 5 to 10%. So they are well calibrated and, and, uh, validated. Now, since 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:53.800 the models are regional in nature, they are aggregated in nature. So it often, uh, it 01:08:53.800 --> 01:09:00.360 is misinterpreted because if we try to get local decisions from those models, that is 01:09:00.360 --> 01:09:05.160 a flawed approach because we need to have, use micro simulations for that. These models 01:09:05.160 --> 01:09:10.120 are geared for regional decisions, for regional investments. So I think that's how they should 01:09:10.120 --> 01:09:19.720 be used. Um, so how would, how would, for example, uh, DCTA is planning to invest into 01:09:19.720 --> 01:09:25.200 the A train, make it faster, make it 15 minute frequency. How would, for example, that factor 01:09:25.200 --> 01:09:32.000 in to the model? And then if DCTA committed to kind of toss out a ridiculous number here, 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:35.640 like quintuple bus service in the city of Denton, so that it was also much easier to 01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:40.960 get to the train, would that factor into the model? Yes. So that's where the local process 01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:46.480 is where NCTCOG is doing a really good job of reaching out to cities and acknowledging 01:09:46.480 --> 01:09:53.200 the fact that we are, this is a regional, uh, in a regional analytical tool, the model, 01:09:53.200 --> 01:09:57.920 the aggregate model. So they are reaching out at, look, we have done our, our job of 01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:03.760 estimating these forecasts, but it's now it's your opportunity to make those updates for 01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:08.040 DCTA would be part of that process as well. And I know they are because they'd be looking 01:10:08.040 --> 01:10:13.680 at these forecasts. So, um, there will be an opportunity for DCTA to look at their plans, 01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:19.440 future plans and see if their markets are captured. And if they are not, uh, this will 01:10:19.440 --> 01:10:25.680 be a good opportunity for DCTA, uh, to capture those markets in the data sets. The same goal 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:31.280 for us, we are looking at our developments where the numbers are changing in terms of 01:10:31.280 --> 01:10:38.520 population and employment, and we are making sure that we get as close as possible. Um, 01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:44.960 and then finally, uh, there's projections on the costs of congestion. Um, but I remember 01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:51.280 uh, watching last meeting of this body, uh, Commissioner Rumore, uh, pointed out that 01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:58.360 health and safety, uh, and like property damage impacts of vehicle travel are higher for the 01:10:58.360 --> 01:11:05.240 city of Denton than congestion related impacts are, I believe. Um, is there similar, uh, 01:11:05.240 --> 01:11:10.640 projections for like, if we were to fix congestion via, you know, adding more lanes, what would 01:11:10.640 --> 01:11:17.520 that do to property damage and to like human life costs? I think adding more lanes is one 01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:22.160 solution, but we have to go multimodal. I think that's the direction, but it doesn't 01:11:22.160 --> 01:11:26.920 have to be overnight, but it is the direction that as a city we have to follow. We have 01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:34.200 to look at multimodal options and really expand on, on this, uh, aspect of planning side and 01:11:34.200 --> 01:11:40.640 other, uh, approaches that look, these condition levels again are aggregate, regional, and 01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:46.280 for any, uh, city specific analysis, we'll have to use micro simulation and then get 01:11:46.280 --> 01:11:53.440 those, uh, for, for city facilities. These, uh, reflect the, they don't be this red color 01:11:53.440 --> 01:11:58.640 that we are seeing here is not reflecting somebody traveling from Argyle to Denton, 01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:04.160 which is sort of local trip. Um, but it is reflecting what's going on between Dallas 01:12:04.160 --> 01:12:12.160 and Denton, uh, or, or, or of that nature. So for any local analysis, we need a separate 01:12:12.160 --> 01:12:17.720 set of models and they are called micro simulation models or in some cases mesoscopic models 01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:21.640 as well. We could, we could, we could develop those, but I think there are many other ways 01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:30.400 we could look into those through our many studies that are coming. Thank you. Councilor 01:12:30.400 --> 01:12:38.040 Holney, any questions? Um, I, I have a ton and this is, um, but I'll, I'll try to keep 01:12:38.040 --> 01:12:45.480 myself under control. Um, partly because Farhan, you and I, we've talked many times, modeling 01:12:45.480 --> 01:12:53.320 is what I did for a living. Um, so, um, and I will try to not be too academic about it, 01:12:53.320 --> 01:12:57.160 but I think this is the problem we're dealing with, with a wonk, a wonk and a wonk on the, 01:12:57.160 --> 01:13:03.760 on the mobility committee. Um, so, uh, forgive me if I do drift into the weeds a little bit. 01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:08.520 Uh, I'll try to rein myself in. Um, a lot of the questions that I think you heard so 01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:20.880 far were scenario modeling. Um, and so I guess the question I have is how, how fast 01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:25.400 are these models calculated once they have, they start from the, from the base data or 01:13:25.400 --> 01:13:30.640 even the modified base data with the local interactions. How, how quickly does it take 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:36.720 to calculate a model? Is it a day, a week, two months? You know, how, how, how, how fast 01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:42.480 can we get new, new projections? So there are different levels. Four step models usually 01:13:42.480 --> 01:13:47.760 are faster, but these models are activity based to a gear towards activity based, the 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:53.720 one NCT gov is using, uh, or, or semi activity based, I would say not fully. So six days 01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:59.080 for one, uh, I think five to six days. Uh, that's what my understanding is. And then, 01:13:59.080 --> 01:14:05.160 uh, but there are versions of models which are more direct, uh, very quick ones. I have 01:14:05.160 --> 01:14:10.200 uh, run models that would take only six to eight hours. And then I've dealt with models 01:14:10.200 --> 01:14:15.440 that would take 20 days as well. Of course, processing technology also goes with that. 01:14:15.440 --> 01:14:20.160 Right. No, no, I understand. And you know, um, there, there's opportunities to work with 01:14:20.160 --> 01:14:27.640 our, our, uh, university partners to, to speed that up. Um, the reason I asked those questions 01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:32.080 is, and you alluded to yourself when you start talking about multiscale and measles scale, 01:14:32.080 --> 01:14:42.400 um, modeling is the scenario modeling is less, less like for instance, on the DCTA question, 01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:50.440 it goes to us designing policy. If we do X, then the effect on the model is Y and that's 01:14:50.440 --> 01:14:56.160 going to help us predict, you know, make a recommendation to council that then councilor 01:14:56.160 --> 01:15:01.160 Holland and I vote on at that level, uh, in terms of recommendations and, you know, in, 01:15:01.160 --> 01:15:09.720 in terms of your future projections. So it, it's helpful if we can say, um, I, on these 01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:17.740 coarse grained models, um, as we drill down, it's, it's, it's helpful if we can do some 01:15:17.740 --> 01:15:21.280 of these scenario modeling. So I guess one of my question in order to rein myself in 01:15:21.280 --> 01:15:31.560 is, um, would it be helpful if we could package some of our scenario questions to you in advance? 01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:37.720 Would that be helpful to get those to you so we could get them in, in, or, I mean, it's 01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:42.440 sometimes difficult for us to guess what our questions will be, but is, is that going to 01:15:42.440 --> 01:15:47.440 be something effective or we could get questions to you that would help you incorporate the, 01:15:47.440 --> 01:15:52.360 the, the microscale and the mesoscale level into a composite model so we can do that sort 01:15:52.360 --> 01:15:57.480 of scenario modeling? If you're specifically talking about a train, then it, it will be 01:15:57.480 --> 01:16:03.160 an aggregate model because it's, it's, uh, uh, it's a stretch of train that goes multi-city 01:16:03.160 --> 01:16:11.520 and, uh, so we could, uh, request NCT Cog to, to run some of those scenarios. We don't 01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:17.920 have to go microscopic or mesoscopic unless we want to identify corridors. We want to 01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:23.720 identify some parallel routes or feeder buses, all those, uh, but if we are just looking 01:16:23.720 --> 01:16:29.680 at what would be the outcome if we had a station here or a removal station there, then we could 01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:34.960 use NCT Cog's model and benefit from, uh, what's existing there. We don't have to reinvent 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:38.720 the wheel. Okay. And part of the reason I ask is even on the large scale, as we do these 01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:45.980 regional approaches, there are some, this is essentially a, a graph theory analysis 01:16:45.980 --> 01:16:51.080 with nodes and edges. And so we, if we're putting barriers on the edges, I'm getting 01:16:51.080 --> 01:16:54.800 real wonky, I'm sorry, but if we're getting, if we're putting barriers on the edges, like 01:16:54.800 --> 01:17:00.800 if, go, to go back to this, this morning, if we put, if we expand the green belt into 01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:06.880 a large national park, that puts a, that, that changes the edge weights. So now the nodes 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:12.880 don't connect anymore and you will route a path around it. All right. So, um, the same 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:18.480 as I'm watching the projection curves on this particular map, as you change from 2019, it's, 01:17:18.480 --> 01:17:23.320 it's clear that they're just projecting, you go, you know, nothing's in the way of you 01:17:23.320 --> 01:17:30.200 going and you're going to go at highway speeds, 60 to 80 miles an hour. And that doesn't help 01:17:30.200 --> 01:17:36.120 us do destination planning or scenario planning or, or decide where we put a thing or how 01:17:36.120 --> 01:17:43.720 we interact. And, and it doesn't help us do a large scale development modeling. We're 01:17:43.720 --> 01:17:49.440 like, okay, if we approve an MPC in this area, how's that going? None of that is available 01:17:49.440 --> 01:17:54.640 at, at this level. So I guess my question to you is, without spending the next 30 minutes 01:17:54.640 --> 01:18:01.080 discussing this, um, cause we have two more items. Um, how, what kind of questions and 01:18:01.080 --> 01:18:07.920 inputs do you need from this committee and from council to help you potentially address 01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:13.080 those kinds of questions? On the development level, they are addressed by TIAs. Typically 01:18:13.080 --> 01:18:17.320 in the development review process, there is a TIA that the developers have to follow. 01:18:17.320 --> 01:18:21.060 And if there are small multi-use development or any other development, they would be covered 01:18:21.060 --> 01:18:26.880 in that. So we don't need to run these aggregate model for those. They are, um, this micro 01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:31.300 level models or, or assimilation that they run and they provide us some projections or 01:18:31.300 --> 01:18:36.360 numbers that how the level of service will on the facility will change. And then, uh, 01:18:36.360 --> 01:18:40.640 the whole process goes with that. So there is a process in place that city follows for 01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:46.560 these developments. So that on the feedback, uh, what we are planning to do is we'll just 01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:55.600 have this ready, these, this forecast, um, updated. And, uh, if, um, uh, if necessary, 01:18:55.600 --> 01:19:03.000 we can, um, present the final update in the next, uh, if, if it is necessary, I believe 01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:08.560 that it's the simplest process because we are incorporating the feedback. Um, uh, we 01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:16.680 will be provided to, um, entity called, but, uh, we are open to any other ways, um, Cassie 01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:22.240 or you, uh, this committee decides staff is here to assist. Okay. Well, I will rein myself 01:19:22.240 --> 01:19:28.520 in. Do we have any other questions on this item? Cassie, I was just going to say, um, 01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:33.200 I think Farhan already presented that we have very limited time to provide this information 01:19:33.200 --> 01:19:36.800 back, but if you have feedback that you'd like us to incorporate, I think we could get 01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:43.280 with him offline. Um, so we can, uh, incorporate that. All right. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll 01:19:43.280 --> 01:19:48.120 leave that one there and we'll, and I encourage any of you, if you have questions, please 01:19:48.120 --> 01:19:54.520 get those to staff so that they can incorporate those as rapidly as possible. Uh, all right. 01:19:54.520 --> 01:20:02.120 Uh, with that, we will move on to, we finished IMD. We're going to move on to item E MC two 01:20:02.120 --> 01:20:07.280 four zero two six, receive report and hold discussion regarding the downtown parking 01:20:07.280 --> 01:20:22.960 study summary findings. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm Natalie Doherty with Farron 01:20:22.960 --> 01:20:27.120 peers and then I'm joined by my colleague, Josh Peterman, um, who will be able to also 01:20:27.120 --> 01:20:31.960 answer questions at the end of the presentation. So I'll be speaking to a study we conducted 01:20:31.960 --> 01:20:38.960 to evaluate parking demand and recommend parking management strategies in the downtown area. 01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:45.200 So to begin with, we completed a review of, um, big data in order to determine a subset 01:20:45.200 --> 01:20:51.320 of public parking facilities in the downtown area to complete a detailed parking survey. 01:20:51.320 --> 01:20:57.080 This data revealed important parking demand characteristics such as the time of day, um, 01:20:57.080 --> 01:21:02.560 the day of the week that parking demand is busiest. Um, and we also got to identify some 01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:08.300 of the demographic information of visitors. So this data showed us that most trip making 01:21:08.300 --> 01:21:13.360 downtown occurs in the central and southern portion of the downtown area around the square. 01:21:13.360 --> 01:21:18.240 We also found that most trips downtown are for leisure, so they're not tied to a trip 01:21:18.240 --> 01:21:24.220 to or from home or from work. Um, a good portion of visitors downtown are high school and university 01:21:24.220 --> 01:21:38.280 age groups. What is a good portion? Um, I think roughly 30 to 40% of visitors. Um, we 01:21:38.280 --> 01:21:43.560 also found that Fridays and Saturdays have the highest demand for parking downtown. And 01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:48.240 so this big data also helped us to inform some of the parking recommendations that I'll 01:21:48.240 --> 01:21:54.400 share towards the end of the presentation. So we mapped an inventory to public parking 01:21:54.400 --> 01:21:59.000 facilities, uh, in the downtown study area, which was defined as a couple block radius 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:04.960 of the Denton square and included the downtown transit center and Quaker town park. Most 01:22:04.960 --> 01:22:11.440 public parking, um, downtown is free. So you have, um, on street parking closest to the 01:22:11.440 --> 01:22:17.840 Denton square that is time restricted to two hours during weekdays, during business hours. 01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:21.720 That's shown in the dark blue area on street. Uh, and then you have other on street parking 01:22:21.720 --> 01:22:25.840 that is free and unrestricted, um, as you get further south and east, and then the north 01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:32.640 side of Quaker town park. Uh, we also have, uh, free public parking in lots in orange 01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:38.100 that are no time restrictions, no payment available. Uh, and then you also have some 01:22:38.100 --> 01:22:44.460 smaller lots closer to the square, um, shown in that dark green color that are paid lots. 01:22:44.460 --> 01:22:47.920 And then that light green area represents government lots that are available to the 01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:56.360 public outside of typical business hours. So we found that there were approximately 01:22:56.360 --> 01:23:02.320 2700 public parking spaces in the downtown study area. Um, that's composed of roughly 01:23:02.320 --> 01:23:08.800 1200 on street spaces and 1500 off street spaces. In our study, we were able to connect 01:23:08.800 --> 01:23:13.680 a detailed survey of roughly 40% of that total public parking. Uh, that is a pretty good 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:20.280 represent representative sample of all of the parking that is downtown. Um, again, no 01:23:20.280 --> 01:23:29.960 on street parking is paid in the downtown area. Uh, so what we're looking at is the 01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:35.800 weekday parking demand or parking utilization. Um, this was conducted in October of 2023 01:23:35.800 --> 01:23:41.680 on a Thursday. So what parking demand or parking utilization is, is just the share of parking 01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:46.280 spaces that has a vehicle parked in it during that time period. Um, so we have a pretty 01:23:46.280 --> 01:23:51.720 standard distribution of parking demand across a typical day. So we have a peak that is between 01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:59.080 seven and eight PM. Um, and the second peak that is around 12 to one PM, which is typical 01:23:59.080 --> 01:24:06.120 dining hours. Um, we have sufficient public parking available downtown for the demand. 01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:14.320 Typically public parking, uh, is, is too much. Sorry, let me restate that. Typically when 01:24:14.320 --> 01:24:19.120 we see parking utilization between 85 and 90%, that's when we think that there is not 01:24:19.120 --> 01:24:23.820 enough supply available for the demand because it makes it difficult for people to be able 01:24:23.820 --> 01:24:28.760 to find a space and they need to kind of circulate around. So we're seeing on a weekday, um, 01:24:28.760 --> 01:24:35.400 a peak at 65%. Um, interestingly, we also see that at nine PM, the parking demand is 01:24:35.400 --> 01:24:39.960 higher than we see at 11 AM. Um, so that's a pretty good indicator that you have a lot 01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:46.280 of entertainment downtown. Um, it's a little bit more lively on a weekday. Uh, we also 01:24:46.280 --> 01:24:51.520 collected weekend parking demand. Um, so this was for a Saturday in October and we collected 01:24:51.520 --> 01:24:57.440 that from 8 AM to 12 AM. So we have a similar distribution of parking demand as we saw on 01:24:57.440 --> 01:25:02.520 a weekday. Um, but you can see that, uh, the parking demand begins a little bit later in 01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:07.320 the day, starting at 10 AM. Uh, and we have a higher peak from eight to nine PM, close 01:25:07.320 --> 01:25:13.560 to 80% utilization, uh, still sufficient parking supply for the demand on what we expect to 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:23.400 be the busiest day of the week. So what both of these charts don't show you is the actual 01:25:23.400 --> 01:25:27.760 distribution of parking demand across the public parking facilities. So I'll go ahead 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:33.400 and share that next with you. So we'll be looking at, um, kind of the peak time of the 01:25:33.400 --> 01:25:39.320 week, which is what we found to be 8 PM on a Saturday. So here you can see for the on 01:25:39.320 --> 01:25:44.040 street spaces that we have a detailed survey available that closest to the square, you 01:25:44.040 --> 01:25:48.840 have a really high rates of parking utilization and further away you go from the square, you 01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:55.800 see that demand go down a little bit. Um, did you have a question for that slide? 01:25:55.800 --> 01:25:59.960 Go ahead. Sorry. Would you like us to, um, wait until the end and then come back to the 01:25:59.960 --> 01:26:05.080 slides or sort of ask throughout? You're welcome to ask. Okay. Um, on this one, I noticed only 01:26:05.080 --> 01:26:11.440 some streets were counted. Why is that? Yeah. So we accounted on street parking and off 01:26:11.440 --> 01:26:17.840 street parking for 40% of the total parking available. So we were able to collect on 12 01:26:17.840 --> 01:26:23.360 street segments. Uh, so we wanted to really take a look at what the highest parking demand, 01:26:23.360 --> 01:26:27.240 the highest activity areas are, which were closest to the square and, and see how that 01:26:27.240 --> 01:26:32.880 changes as you go further out. Um, so yes, we are missing some of the parking that's 01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:42.920 available, uh, further south and east. Thank you. Back a couple of slides. Um, number, 01:26:42.920 --> 01:26:51.800 number four, I think the, the two hour restriction says who. Yeah. So, uh, we've heard that there's 01:26:51.800 --> 01:26:57.840 not a lot of enforcement happening in the downtown area. Yeah. There is signage out 01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:05.320 there that does specify the time restrictions. Okay. Okay. But I mean, if I know that everybody 01:27:05.320 --> 01:27:11.560 knows that you park your car at eight 39 o'clock when you get to work and you crank it up again 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:18.480 at five o'clock when you get off, um, and it's especially annoying. I find it particularly 01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:26.480 annoying. The, the backend parking on, uh, East Hickory street. Um, I don't see that 01:27:26.480 --> 01:27:32.360 there's any, that there's any enforcement. Yeah. Do you know, do you know of any enforcement? 01:27:32.360 --> 01:27:37.880 Uh, no, I'm not aware of enforcement happening too regularly. Um, we're also helping on the 01:27:37.880 --> 01:27:43.200 citywide parking, uh, project as well. Um, so that's one of the kind of key pieces that 01:27:43.200 --> 01:27:47.640 we're going to be looking into for recommendations on how to do enforcement without needing, 01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:52.160 um, you know, staff to be able to be doing that, um, and a way to actually track the 01:27:52.160 --> 01:28:00.520 citations and follow up with parking fees. Um, returning to the current slide, I noticed 01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:06.520 that there seems to be a segment or perhaps an intersection there at Cedar and McKinney 01:28:06.520 --> 01:28:13.360 that indicates 140% utilization. I'm curious how, what that number means. Yeah. So there's 01:28:13.360 --> 01:28:18.800 not too many spaces on streets. So that number does sound a little bit higher as a percentage, 01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:23.800 but, um, the way that the parking is striped on those streets is there are spaces that 01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:28.800 a vehicle can park, but they're not a designated or striped parking space. So there is over 01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:33.440 parking that's occurring downtown. Um, but from what it looks like when we were out there 01:28:33.440 --> 01:28:39.720 and from photos, um, people aren't blocking the actual through way on the streets. They 01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:45.900 are able to kind of tuck themselves over on the side. So that would be like a loading 01:28:45.900 --> 01:28:52.720 area or parking closer to an intersection than is allowed. Yeah. So near an intersection, 01:28:52.720 --> 01:28:57.440 usually parking is not allowed within, you know, 40 or 50 feet. And so that's where a 01:28:57.440 --> 01:29:06.920 parking space isn't striped, but a car can still fit. I think we're going to go ahead. 01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:11.880 Um, so this is showing the, um, set of off street parking lots that we also collected 01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:18.360 detailed survey data. Uh, and so we have a mix of paid parking lots and, um, no restrictions 01:29:18.360 --> 01:29:23.320 on parking. And then we also have a government lot or number seven is, uh, so you can see 01:29:23.320 --> 01:29:28.520 that the highest, uh, parking utilization is on the free lots that are closest to the 01:29:28.520 --> 01:29:34.320 Denton square followed by the smaller, uh, paid parking lots near the square. And then 01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:40.040 as you go further out, the parking utilization is, is much lower. Um, this is what we can 01:29:40.040 --> 01:29:44.120 expect, right? So people want to be able to park closer to where their destination is 01:29:44.120 --> 01:29:50.920 located. Um, and what we also found from speaking with the public and, and from stakeholder conversations 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:56.560 is that, uh, some of the parking is not well signed. Uh, so it can be a little bit difficult 01:29:56.560 --> 01:30:02.120 for visitors to identify what is a private lot versus a public versus a paid. So, uh, 01:30:02.120 --> 01:30:05.040 if you know, there are certain lots near the square that you've always parked at, you're 01:30:05.040 --> 01:30:10.080 likely to want to stay there rather than tracking out a little bit further. Um, and then also 01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:14.760 considering the pedestrian environment, uh, if you're parked at lot seven, you're going 01:30:14.760 --> 01:30:19.280 to have to walk across McKinney street, likely to get to your destination. So, uh, that might 01:30:19.280 --> 01:30:23.800 be a barrier for some people when they're, they're choosing their parking location. 01:30:23.800 --> 01:30:29.400 Before we continue, uh, I'm glad count, uh, first your break, uh, had her question. Um, 01:30:29.400 --> 01:30:39.480 it was, it was my exact same question for the gravel lot there at 174%. Um, it's unstriped, 01:30:39.480 --> 01:30:50.960 it's barely, uh, curbed. So how many official spots are, are, do we know? I mean, I, this, 01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:54.880 this, you know, this is, this is probably too detailed a question for the, the, the 01:30:54.880 --> 01:31:04.920 level of, of this report, but, uh, it's, it's a general through line of, it's often unclear 01:31:04.920 --> 01:31:10.400 actually how many spots are in a given location. We saw it on the previous slide was street. 01:31:10.400 --> 01:31:15.480 We see it here with the, with the gravel lot. Uh, and, and so in order to us have a better 01:31:15.480 --> 01:31:21.840 understanding it, it's probably relevant how many spots we think we should be in a given 01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:28.680 location. And, and that helps us understand this need for over parking that we see. And 01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:33.400 so, I mean, we, I understand the general concept that all the cars around the trees and they're 01:31:33.400 --> 01:31:39.320 everywhere in this lot. And, and so it's just sort of a, you know, a winner take all kind 01:31:39.320 --> 01:31:47.800 of free for all in that lot. Um, uh, but it would be useful, I think, to understand what 01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:54.320 the city thinks that lot should be. I think we had that information in the actual report 01:31:54.320 --> 01:32:01.320 that we can provide. Okay. So we had a count firm that, uh, had a flyover to collect data 01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:06.960 through aerial imagery of the number of spaces in the various lots and on street. Um, so 01:32:06.960 --> 01:32:13.280 for that lot, they estimated about 130 spaces available. Um, I would say that there is some 01:32:13.280 --> 01:32:18.920 room for error within their, you know, count. Um, and it would be probably feasible to actually 01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:23.640 do a parking lot layout to see how many more spaces that you could fit. Uh, but yeah, this 01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:27.520 percentage is a little bit skewed thinking about how many parking spaces we think that 01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:34.480 it can accommodate. And then, um, also just what you've noted that there is a lot of chaos, 01:32:34.480 --> 01:32:42.840 I guess, in that parking lot. Okay. So I noted that, you know, we have detailed parking survey 01:32:42.840 --> 01:32:48.920 data for about 40% of, um, the parking facilities downtown, but because we were able to collect 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:55.040 those videos and images, um, from an aerial view, we were also able to kind of assess, 01:32:55.040 --> 01:33:03.680 um, at a broad level in kind of quarter increments, 25%, 50%, 75% full, um, of all of the public 01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:09.360 parking or most of it in the downtown area. Um, so those photos were available for, um, 01:33:09.360 --> 01:33:15.620 the Saturday evening from roughly 6 to 8 PM. And looking at that in total, it does, uh, 01:33:15.620 --> 01:33:20.040 kind of mimic what we saw with the detailed parking survey. So spaces that are closer 01:33:20.040 --> 01:33:25.880 to the square are more heavily parked than, um, areas further out. Uh, but when we looked 01:33:25.880 --> 01:33:32.560 at this kind of qualitatively, we do see overall parking demand of roughly 60% across all of 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:37.540 the facilities. And so that number is lower than what we saw when we, um, had that subset 01:33:37.540 --> 01:33:42.600 of parking that we calculated. So the peak on Saturday with, with those facilities was 01:33:42.600 --> 01:33:47.660 about 80%. Uh, so our estimates are a little bit on the conservative side. 01:33:47.660 --> 01:33:56.000 Go ahead. Well, and, and, and before, before you do, um, we have about 20 minutes left 01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:00.720 in the meeting. Um, we, we're going to have a lot of questions. So a question I have for 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:09.400 Cassie is, um, is it better to take lots of questions now on this item and maybe table 01:34:09.400 --> 01:34:14.980 the next capital projects item or some of the memorandum items, or, um, is it better 01:34:14.980 --> 01:34:20.680 to continue on in our schedule and, and streamline our questions knowing that you're going to 01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:27.080 get the questions somehow eventually anyway. So the capital improvement program is on a 01:34:27.080 --> 01:34:33.040 deadline so we have, you know, coming up council approval scheduled for September 17th. So 01:34:33.040 --> 01:34:38.240 my hope was to get your feedback on the capital projects that we've proposed for 25 today 01:34:38.240 --> 01:34:44.080 to be able to incorporate any, any feedback for council approval. But if you're, if you 01:34:44.080 --> 01:34:49.400 feel it's more important to talk through the downtown parking study now we can table it, 01:34:49.400 --> 01:34:57.400 but we'll, we'll have to bring it back after council adoption. Okay. Um, then I'm, I'm 01:34:57.400 --> 01:35:00.200 gonna normally I wouldn't ask this, but I'm going to ask in the interest of time that 01:35:00.200 --> 01:35:05.320 we let her finish her presentation, write it, write down your questions and then that'll 01:35:05.320 --> 01:35:11.960 give us an opportunity if we can't get to them, um, to just send those emails, uh, those 01:35:11.960 --> 01:35:16.800 around and staff can send them to all of us and, and we can do the feedback that way. 01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:25.360 So just in order to save some time to please continue, maybe go a little bit faster through 01:35:25.360 --> 01:35:30.180 some of these slides. So I was just going to kind of show you how parking demand varies 01:35:30.180 --> 01:35:34.920 across that Saturday evening between six to eight PM. So the, this is the, the government 01:35:34.920 --> 01:35:39.680 lot that's on the north side of town, um, north of McKinney street. So you can see that 01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:42.880 in the evening, although it's available to the public and it's free, there's not a lot 01:35:42.880 --> 01:35:47.520 of people that are parking there. Um, the lot just south of McKinney street is much 01:35:47.520 --> 01:35:51.840 more heavily utilized. So maybe that's, you know, distance, but also thinking about the 01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:57.160 walking environment and need to cross. Um, so here you can see around the square, a lot 01:35:57.160 --> 01:36:03.480 of the parking is, um, is full. Um, here's where we have to paid parking lots and a free 01:36:03.480 --> 01:36:10.400 parking lot that shares a driveway and access with one of the paid lots. So, um, what maybe 01:36:10.400 --> 01:36:14.400 isn't great for the visitor experience is that if you get there a little bit later, 01:36:14.400 --> 01:36:18.680 when the public parking side of the lot is full, you're going to end up in this paid 01:36:18.680 --> 01:36:24.160 section of the lot. And so one of our recommendations is to think about, um, you know, separate 01:36:24.160 --> 01:36:28.840 driveway access and good signage to make it clear that if you're on the paid side, you 01:36:28.840 --> 01:36:32.600 know, you should be paying, but also we should be thinking about incentives for people to 01:36:32.600 --> 01:36:37.940 want to pay for parking. Um, so one way to kind of help with redistributing parking is 01:36:37.940 --> 01:36:43.300 to have more restrictions and payment options closer to the high activity area and the free 01:36:43.300 --> 01:36:49.000 parking further out so that you do see, um, you know, the parking lots that are further 01:36:49.000 --> 01:36:53.240 out more full and people aren't trying to circulate quite heavily within this area to 01:36:53.240 --> 01:36:59.080 find a space. Um, so here's an example, one of the smaller lots that's paid, um, much 01:36:59.080 --> 01:37:05.400 lower utilization than what we saw on the other side around this time. And then here's 01:37:05.400 --> 01:37:09.700 on that west side. So, um, the county historical park, you know, people might be parking there 01:37:09.700 --> 01:37:13.560 for the park itself, but people know this is available to the public. The community 01:37:13.560 --> 01:37:18.280 market happens there. Um, the lot just across the street is, is not well signed to be public 01:37:18.280 --> 01:37:24.360 and you can see that no one is really parking in that space. So quickly, we also looked 01:37:24.360 --> 01:37:29.320 at, um, parking turnover. So that's how long vehicles are saying parked in a space before 01:37:29.320 --> 01:37:34.080 they are switching out and other vehicles are turning into that space. Uh, so we found 01:37:34.080 --> 01:37:41.520 that most, um, most people are staying, uh, in downtown for roughly two hours or under, 01:37:41.520 --> 01:37:45.560 uh, which is a really good sign of an active downtown. So you're getting pretty good turnover 01:37:45.560 --> 01:37:51.100 in that area. Um, we also saw that people were saying, uh, longer on the weekend than 01:37:51.100 --> 01:37:56.200 they are on the weekday. Um, and also that, um, people are staying longer in parking lots 01:37:56.200 --> 01:38:01.560 than they are on street, which we can expect you're more willing to, uh, park in a parking 01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:08.400 lot if you're going to be walking to more spaces. We also looked at future parking demand. 01:38:08.400 --> 01:38:13.320 So we were aware of four different developments that were approved in the study area. So there 01:38:13.320 --> 01:38:19.040 are three multifamily housing developments and one restaurant or brewery. So we estimated 01:38:19.040 --> 01:38:24.440 parking demand for those developments and, and, um, added that onto what the existing 01:38:24.440 --> 01:38:29.160 parking demand is. And we still found that there is a sufficient supply of parking in 01:38:29.160 --> 01:38:33.880 this area. Um, but we would recommend though, in the future, as there's more development 01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:38.920 occurring downtown is to think about some transportation demand management strategies. 01:38:38.920 --> 01:38:44.000 Um, so thinking about shared parking, so parking facilities that are available to multiple different 01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:48.960 uses, um, thinking about supporting other transportation modes, things like bicycle 01:38:48.960 --> 01:38:54.680 parking or providing transit passes to help reduce that demand, um, or some other strategies 01:38:54.680 --> 01:39:00.000 like that. Um, maybe you can have a parking mitigation fee that developers, um, pay the 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:08.960 city so that the city can help with different improvements. Um, sorry, I might have skipped 01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:13.960 a side. So we conducted public engagement last fall. So we had a public, uh, pop-up 01:39:13.960 --> 01:39:19.320 event at a community market and we also had, um, an online survey. And so this feedback 01:39:19.320 --> 01:39:24.560 was folded into some of the recommended, um, strategies that we have in our toolbox. We 01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:29.680 also conducted, um, through a survey we found, uh, visitor travel behavior and preferences. 01:39:29.680 --> 01:39:35.560 So one of the, um, interesting findings from that survey is that most people over 80% are 01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:39.580 willing to walk more than three minutes to their destination. Um, and over half are willing 01:39:39.580 --> 01:39:44.000 to walk more than five minutes to their destination. So that's a good indicator that, you know, 01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:48.560 people are willing to, uh, be a little bit further from their, um, their destination 01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:53.080 if we're able to kind of support that with, uh, nice walking facilities and things like 01:39:53.080 --> 01:39:59.400 that. So we also conducted a stakeholder workshop where we, uh, presented our findings and gathered 01:39:59.400 --> 01:40:04.160 feedback on the draft recommendations and that occurred over the spring. Um, participants 01:40:04.160 --> 01:40:10.320 identified, um, a need for signage, downtown for parking, but also a consolidation of parking 01:40:10.320 --> 01:40:15.160 facilities to make it easier for visitors, especially new time visitors to find a parking 01:40:15.160 --> 01:40:19.360 space, uh, because as you saw, there were quite a few different lots around the downtown 01:40:19.360 --> 01:40:24.720 area. Um, so if you don't find a space in one, you're gonna have to be looking at different 01:40:24.720 --> 01:40:32.000 ones to find a space. So other recommendations that came from the stakeholder workshop, um, 01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:36.600 were to help encourage higher turnover in the, uh, kind of central core around the Denton 01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:41.920 Square. So thinking about, um, spaces like 15-minute parking, um, or shorter time periods 01:40:41.920 --> 01:40:48.320 like that. So just to recap, we have about 2,700 public parking spaces and there is a 01:40:48.320 --> 01:40:55.560 sufficient, uh, parking supply for the existing demand and with the approved developments. 01:40:55.560 --> 01:41:01.240 So next I'm going to be sharing about our, uh, parking management toolbox. So, um, this 01:41:01.240 --> 01:41:08.000 toolbox is intended to be used whether in isolation for specific, uh, tools or, uh, 01:41:08.000 --> 01:41:12.880 using a couple different ones to target specific parking concerns that happen today or to, 01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:17.320 um, start thinking about how to improve the, the visitor parking experience downtown in 01:41:17.320 --> 01:41:22.320 the future as you see more growth. So we've organized this toolbox into near-term, midterm 01:41:22.320 --> 01:41:28.440 and long-term strategies. Um, so the near-term is looking at a one to three-year time horizon. 01:41:28.440 --> 01:41:35.240 Midterm is three to five-year and then long-term is five-year plus. And so, um, the first strategy 01:41:35.240 --> 01:41:39.920 here is increase and enhance static signage, which I've talked briefly about. Um, another 01:41:39.920 --> 01:41:45.480 is to implement time limits and restrictions. Um, so that's to help with distributing parking 01:41:45.480 --> 01:41:50.520 demand across facilities. The next one is assigning parking locations. So thinking about 01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:56.480 specific spaces that are designated for employees or for other uses of the curb, like commercial 01:41:56.480 --> 01:42:02.720 loading or food trucks. Um, some of the other ones include, um, enforcing parking, accommodating 01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:08.420 pickup and drop-off from TNCs, uh, developing a schedule to actually track and monitor the 01:42:08.420 --> 01:42:13.400 effectiveness of the different parking strategies that are being implemented. Um, and then also 01:42:13.400 --> 01:42:19.800 updating parking standards. Um, so specifically with parking standards, we're thinking about, 01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:25.560 um, wanting to kind of revisit the parking minimums that developers have when building 01:42:25.560 --> 01:42:29.800 in the downtown area. Um, and specifically residential uses is a good one to kind of 01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:35.200 target for those changes. So thinking about transportation demand management and reducing 01:42:35.200 --> 01:42:43.680 that parking demand. So looking at the midterm strategies. So the first one is coordinating 01:42:43.680 --> 01:42:50.200 valet options. Um, the next two are related to providing, uh, non-vehicle parking spaces 01:42:50.200 --> 01:42:55.200 and incentivizing, you know, bicycle transit, walking modes through urban design and traffic 01:42:55.200 --> 01:43:01.480 calming. Um, another is to think about restriping, um, spaces to kind of maximize the number 01:43:01.480 --> 01:43:07.080 of spaces that you have on street. Uh, another is to increase the use of shared parking. Uh, 01:43:07.080 --> 01:43:11.240 so when you have complimentary uses, thinking about, um, the banks and the churches that 01:43:11.240 --> 01:43:16.680 are downtown, they have specific windows where there is, um, a lot of parking demand and 01:43:16.680 --> 01:43:21.760 off, out, off hours, you could probably fill that parking with other, other spaces. So 01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:26.000 there's a lot of private parking downtown for specific businesses and that's kind of 01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:32.040 one, um, way to, to improve the efficiency of the space that you're using for parking. 01:43:32.040 --> 01:43:36.280 And then the last is to think about charging for parking. So these are in the midterm area 01:43:36.280 --> 01:43:40.920 just because they, like you required more coordination, they require some technology 01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:46.960 or actually designing and constructing, uh, new facilities. And then finally for the long 01:43:46.960 --> 01:43:52.680 term strategies, um, so these ones also require more time because there's agency coordination 01:43:52.680 --> 01:43:58.720 involved. Um, there's certain strategies that, uh, you know, creating a uniform parking experience 01:43:58.720 --> 01:44:03.760 across facilities requires a lot of effort to think about applying technology and materials 01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:10.640 at a city wide scale. So the first is adding off street parking. Um, so this one can be 01:44:10.640 --> 01:44:15.720 valuable, um, when thinking about wanting to repurpose space on the street for different 01:44:15.720 --> 01:44:23.040 curb uses. So thinking about commercial loading, um, parklets, uh, bike parking or other active 01:44:23.040 --> 01:44:27.400 uses on the street, um, it can be helpful to move some of that street parking, um, off 01:44:27.400 --> 01:44:33.000 street. And then, um, it's not necessarily needed right now to have an off more off street 01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:39.520 parking, um, but thinking about, about the future, then that could be a good, uh, strategy. 01:44:39.520 --> 01:44:44.320 Also providing intelligence signage. So that will help visitors be able to navigate to 01:44:44.320 --> 01:44:48.280 where within the parking facilities are there actually available spots for me. So that helps 01:44:48.280 --> 01:44:53.160 with efficiency and the visitor experience. Um, and then the third one, creating a uniform 01:44:53.160 --> 01:44:58.200 parking experience for all publicly available parking, um, that could be a lot of different 01:44:58.200 --> 01:45:02.680 strategies. So one is thinking about one app that can be used to identify all of the parking. 01:45:02.680 --> 01:45:08.360 Um, that same app can be used for all of the payments. You could have a similar, you know, 01:45:08.360 --> 01:45:13.600 signage and standard, uh, information materials to help with that. I mean, you would also 01:45:13.600 --> 01:45:19.680 think about, um, pulling in some of that private parking into the, the public parking space. 01:45:19.680 --> 01:45:23.700 And so that could be beneficial for, for private developments as well, if they're getting kind 01:45:23.700 --> 01:45:31.360 of the funding and support for parking from, from the city. So, um, I wanted to speak a 01:45:31.360 --> 01:45:35.960 little bit more about off street parking. So this was something that the public raised 01:45:35.960 --> 01:45:40.200 in the public workshop and online that they would like to have additional parking when 01:45:40.200 --> 01:45:44.120 there's specific events that are happening downtown specifically because a lot of that 01:45:44.120 --> 01:45:48.640 parking that's available on the square usually gets closed for those events. Um, and then 01:45:48.640 --> 01:45:55.840 talking with the stakeholders and the workshop, um, thinking about how there are so many different 01:45:55.840 --> 01:46:01.880 public parking lots around town, um, having one central location for parking will help 01:46:01.880 --> 01:46:08.600 with, with managing it, but also helping visitors identify those spaces. So I just have a couple 01:46:08.600 --> 01:46:16.840 more slides to talk about some considerations for off street parking. So, um, a little bit 01:46:16.840 --> 01:46:20.800 I've mentioned earlier, but if you're wanting to kind of repurpose that public space on 01:46:20.800 --> 01:46:28.000 street for active travel modes, shifting, um, parking off street is one good consideration. 01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:31.560 Another is when you're having limited ways to actually manage the demand or manage the 01:46:31.560 --> 01:46:37.160 various parking facilities you have. Um, another is when you want to have a concentrated supply 01:46:37.160 --> 01:46:41.720 of vehicle parking. Um, and the final one is if the opportunity cost is there. So if 01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:46.440 you're thinking about the construction cost for a parking structure, um, and what it would 01:46:46.440 --> 01:46:53.800 take to maintain it is that, you know, outweighed by the opportunity. Other considerations are 01:46:53.800 --> 01:46:57.480 wanting that parking structure to not kind of be an eyesore in the downtown. So trying 01:46:57.480 --> 01:47:01.840 to make it, uh, look and feel like other different businesses and buildings in that downtown 01:47:01.840 --> 01:47:06.720 area. You can consider active ground floor spaces with the parking structure above that, 01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:12.080 um, to help, you know, with, with that look and feel. You could also provide, um, you 01:47:12.080 --> 01:47:17.480 know, bike parking or, or other uses within that parking structure. And then again, ways 01:47:17.480 --> 01:47:24.220 to kind of enhance that is through signage or real time signage for, for parking spaces. 01:47:24.220 --> 01:47:28.760 So here's two examples of where you have active ground floor, uh, retail, where you have a 01:47:28.760 --> 01:47:32.800 parking structure and you can see that it looks a little bit nicer and is a place that 01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:38.240 people want to be. Um, you could also have these different retail uses, uh, pay a fee 01:47:38.240 --> 01:47:44.400 to the city so that they can help to maintain that parking structure. Um, and then lastly, 01:47:44.400 --> 01:47:50.160 just thinking about locations. So you want to have a, a pretty large piece of land within 01:47:50.160 --> 01:47:55.160 a three to five minute walk of the core kind of downtown area, uh, to locate that parking 01:47:55.160 --> 01:48:00.440 structure. So here are two that are larger ones already available in the downtown area. 01:48:00.440 --> 01:48:05.000 Um, and it's helpful to have kind of access from two different streets for traffic flow 01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:10.000 within that building and consider, you know, enhancing the pedestrian facilities around 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:15.400 it because you will have a high number of visitors that are going to and from that lot. 01:48:15.400 --> 01:48:19.760 So this concludes the presentation. Um, happy to answer questions, but also understand if 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:25.080 we need to kind of move on to the next piece, that's okay too. 01:48:25.080 --> 01:48:34.060 So we have seven minutes and another project. So my question to you, Cassie is, my guess 01:48:34.060 --> 01:48:40.360 is based on the slides, we have, we're going to have a lot of questions knowing this audience. 01:48:40.360 --> 01:48:47.680 Um, so I don't know how much time we can go over. I, I, I don't know how important it 01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:52.920 is to get the capital projects in, in seven minutes. You, you tell me, because my guess 01:48:52.920 --> 01:48:57.640 is that there's, there's way more questions for this and way more attention for this than 01:48:57.640 --> 01:49:02.420 we can possibly accommodate in like a minute. Yeah. So my suggestion is we can bring this 01:49:02.420 --> 01:49:07.000 item back for additional discussion because I really like to focus, be able to focus on 01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:12.080 the short term wins here and the short term implementation. So, um, we can bring it back 01:49:12.080 --> 01:49:16.860 at the next meeting and have additional discussion specifically about the parking study. Um, 01:49:16.860 --> 01:49:21.760 and then the capital projects, if you have feedback, I suggest we were not going to get 01:49:21.760 --> 01:49:26.560 to it today, but if you have feedback for that before we get to the budget discussions, 01:49:26.560 --> 01:49:30.560 I'd like to have that, you know, so you can always email that. I think we have some questions 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:36.000 from Susie that we're happy to provide responses to in writing. Um, and then we can table the 01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:43.560 rest of the items for the next meeting. So you, you want to do the budget part? No, I'm 01:49:43.560 --> 01:49:49.560 saying, I'm saying we, this room is booked only until 12, so we don't have time today, 01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:55.400 but if you have any questions or feedback about the particular, um, projects that we've 01:49:55.400 --> 01:50:01.960 included in the backup, I'm happy to take those in writing via email. Okay. Uh, then 01:50:01.960 --> 01:50:10.680 staff will coordinate responses. So is it possible for y'all to send out what questions 01:50:10.680 --> 01:50:15.080 we asked and what the responses were to the whole? Yes, I will make sure the whole committee 01:50:15.080 --> 01:50:21.840 gets all of the responses. And before we're, we're, we're good for that. Cause that, that 01:50:21.840 --> 01:50:27.600 feels like it's sort of almost extra meeting and I don't know whether I want to stay with 01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:36.280 inside the rules. Yes. I think that would be a public facing document. It wouldn't be 01:50:36.280 --> 01:50:42.120 we can attach it to the next meeting. Okay. Or and the agenda backup, we would have to 01:50:42.120 --> 01:50:48.920 discuss this. It's not, the meeting is not happening outside of the meeting construct. 01:50:48.920 --> 01:50:54.480 That's the important part. And I'll get with Cassie to discuss. Okay. So that, that all 01:50:54.480 --> 01:51:01.640 sounds good. So I'm going to ask the counselors and commissioners, um, uh, review these materials 01:51:01.640 --> 01:51:06.200 for these final items, get your questions into staff. Staff will coordinate and send 01:51:06.200 --> 01:51:12.440 out a shared document that we can all see. And similar, I guess to the way we do council, 01:51:12.440 --> 01:51:18.220 um, uh, let's do that sooner rather than later, because some of these are time sensitive items. 01:51:18.220 --> 01:51:26.480 So in the next day or two, please. Uh, and then, um, is there, I would like to request 01:51:26.480 --> 01:51:33.280 that we bring these items back for discussion at the next meeting. Um, we were just really 01:51:33.280 --> 01:51:39.000 dense today for two hours. Yeah. We didn't have the July meeting. So we had a, a pretty 01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:44.960 heavy agenda today, but yes, we can bring those items back in September. Uh, September, 01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:53.320 let me look, Jasmine, do you have the date? September 25th. So I have a question for staff 01:51:53.320 --> 01:51:58.920 and my, my fellow board members. And that is, is there a desire for, or an opportunity 01:51:58.920 --> 01:52:04.240 for an additional special called meeting to relieve some of the pressure so that we don't 01:52:04.240 --> 01:52:08.880 have to cram everything into the September meeting so that we can have a more casual 01:52:08.880 --> 01:52:17.920 dialogue. Would that be beneficial or not beneficial for this meeting? Is that, is that 01:52:17.920 --> 01:52:24.720 right? This is, this is about twice to two and a half times more than we normally do. 01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:29.740 I'd, I'd prefer if, if it's, if it's possible, I'd prefer just to keep it on the regular 01:52:29.740 --> 01:52:37.640 schedule and, and work, work a little bit more in the, on the 25th than, than we normally 01:52:37.640 --> 01:52:41.720 would, than this committee normally would. And I don't know what the density of the September 01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:47.000 meeting was going to be, so I can't address that. I'll make sure we, we plan accordingly. 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:56.560 Okay. Also 10 o'clock. Yes. Okay. So is the appropriate action to table these or just 01:52:56.560 --> 01:53:07.800 have new additional items on the future agenda? Do we, we continue these items or we just 01:53:07.800 --> 01:53:13.520 have new overlapping items on the future? They would, they would just be posted as items. 01:53:13.520 --> 01:53:19.000 We're just, you're navigating the meeting. We stopped two items short. Didn't pick them 01:53:19.000 --> 01:53:24.480 up. No action was taken. You could say that, but it'll be posted and you can take it up 01:53:24.480 --> 01:53:31.240 at the next agenda. We'll repost the items for the next agenda. Okay. That sounds good. 01:53:31.240 --> 01:53:34.780 Everybody comfortable with everything we just sort of worked out right now? I clearly see 01:53:34.780 --> 01:53:44.360 a question over there. Okay. All right. So in, in hearing is we're going to bring items 01:53:44.360 --> 01:53:52.720 E and F and G elements of those items any way back as future items on the September 01:53:52.720 --> 01:54:00.280 meeting. Um, and I have requested that we all get our questions in on these time sensitive 01:54:00.280 --> 01:54:06.720 E and F items. Um, and anything in G that might be time sensitive as soon as possible 01:54:06.720 --> 01:54:12.960 this week to staff and staff will coordinate a shared response to any questions that we 01:54:12.960 --> 01:54:21.040 might have. All right. So I'm, I, I'm going to move ahead to concluding items in the last 01:54:21.040 --> 01:54:30.080 minute because we are out of time. Any concluding items real quick. Okay. So with that, then 01:54:30.080 --> 01:54:35.200 I will, uh, uh, uh, end the meeting at 11 59.