Aug 28, 2024 Mobility Committee on 2024-08-28 10:00 AM

>> Thank you and welcome to the mobility committee meeting. It is August 28, 2024. I will note that I'm running the meeting as vice chair as the chair is out today. We do have a quorum present. So I will commence with the rest of the meeting. We'll start off with citizen comments on agenda items. And there is one citizen comment, Charles Lee. If you'll come up to the podium and you can state your comment. And give me one second and we'll start your comments. Bear with me one second while I get the timer going. There we go. All right. And let's go ahead. >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Charles Lee. I just have one quick comment. I'm not going to take the whole three minutes. I just want to speak about the bike lanes and the bike lanes going up in the city. I'm saying I believe it's just a waste of time and money because nobody uses the bike lanes. They're just taking up road space. On Windsor Road, you have bike lanes. And I've lived there for about three going on four years now. And I've only maybe seen one bicyclist on those bike lanes the whole time. And it just cuts down the road traffic. And I think it's a waste of time and money. And that's pretty much all I have to say. You, ladies and gentlemen, have a nice day. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Lee. Any questions for Mr. Lee? >> I have a question, please. Do you want to use the microphone? >> Wow. It came on. Mr. Lee, good morning. Nice to see you again. Where do you live? >> I live on the second district. I live on Elm Street. But I live on -- there's a road over there I believe it's called Windsor. It goes by the -- it goes between North Elm Street and University. And there's bike lanes. If I -- I'm almost positive that's the name of the road. It's called Windsor. By where the movie theater is. >> How long have you been there? >> Like I stated previously, about three years. >> Three to four years? >> Yes. >> Okay. So you live near Windsor Street on Elm Street? >> Yes. >> Okay. I just want to -- >> I travel around there all the time. That's the part of the city that I live in. And that is a large city. And that's -- I really don't go to all the places in the city. That's where I live. I live on University over there. And that's my personal opinion. And I believe bike lanes are a waste of time because nobody rides a bike. Everybody drives a car. And you're cutting down road space for very minimal use because nobody really uses it. >> Okay. Okay. I just wanted -- thanks a lot. >> Any other comments or questions? All right. Noting none, we'll move on to the next item, which is Section 2, Item A, MC24022, consider approval of the minutes from June 22nd, 2024. The chair will entertain a motion. >> Motion to approve the minutes. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All right. We have a motion to approve the minutes from Commissioner Roomer and a second from Commissioner Bray. All in favor, say aye. >> Aye. >> The chair is also an aye. So the minutes pass. All right. We will move on to Item B, MC24023. We will -- considering the item of to draw lots for the mobility committee resident members' term lengths. Is there a staff presentation for this? All right. So if -- can staff briefly summarize for the public what the purpose of this item is and what we're doing here? >> Good morning. So this item is just to identify which term each resident member will have. One will be ending August 31st, 2025, and the other one August 31st, 2026. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. I'll let Commissioner Bray go first. >> I received the term January 9th, 2024 to August 31st, 2025. >> I received the term length January 9th, 2024 to August 31st, 2026. >> So we have Commissioner Roomer is going to go to 2026, and Commissioner Bray's term will end in 2025. All right. Any questions or comments on this item? No? All right. Then we will move forward to Item C, MC24024, receive report and hold a discussion regarding the City of Denton transportation and mobility project status report. >> Good morning. I'm Barry Heard. I'm here for John Poster giving the report for ITS for the mobility report. Go through to the first project, I-35 North. This project consists of the four projects that we have shown. The work on the 074 project has just been submitted for the 100% plans. It's being updated to text.specs and the same thing with CSJ081. And those projects are north of Sanger, north of 455 to north of 3002. Right now, utilities are underway from the U.S. 77 portion here in Denton to north of 455, the 074 project. There's quite a bit of utilities moving if y'all have been up in that area. They've been working for approximately a year. >> There was a question on this item from Commissioner Bray. >> With that 074 segment, do you know -- are you aware if there are accommodations for pedestrians and cyclists at that segment? Because there is a tiny home village that's in the design for formerly homeless folks that's planning to exit on the Barthold Road. I imagine those folks would be doing a lot of walking or biking. >> Yes, there is accommodations for pedestrians through a shared use path, but I can provide more detail on those. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. >> You bet. >> Any other questions on this item? All right. Going on the next item. Thanks, Barry. >> Okay. On the 35E, 35W merge, this project is lit, and it's only waiting authorization for the pre-construction and to begin work. So that project is anticipated to begin very soon. You can see on the utility report, everyone that's remaining, AT&T, Charter, DME, Frontier, Level 3, everybody that is scheduled to be done towards the end of this month, which is this week. >> Before we get going, I just had a brief question on the timelines. I know our light date was April, and our relocations are August. So we're still on track for this to stay on timeline. I just -- it was a little unclear from the notes. >> Yes. The project is really just waiting for the work authorization from the district to get going. So the money is -- the project is funded. No issues there. Contractor is hired. So as soon as that authorization is given, the contractor can begin work. And the city will be invited to the pre-construction meeting. >> All right. Awesome. >> That's going to get going here in September-ish kind of thing. >> That's my estimation, yes, at this point. >> Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Let's go to the next one. >> It's a very big project. Almost $600 million, as you all know. 35E at Mayhill. We're updating the plans again on this section to the 2024 26, which should be done by the end of the month. This is another project that the utilities should be complete within the next 30 to 45 days. And then this project is currently scheduled for the ready-to-let of November 24, currently scheduled for letting in June 25, which everything should be ready to go to get the funding and then move forward with construction. As far as the plans and utilities being clear, everything will be completed. 35W frontage roads from roughly just north of 407 to 2449. This project $213 million project. Currently the design consultant is addressing the 95% plan set and working towards completion of the final plan set. As far as the right-of-way, there's 47 parcels acquired and 11 that are still to be required in condemnation. Loop 288 West. This project, as you know, has been around for a number of years, but it is scheduled with an RTL of April 2026. There are five parcels, 20 parcels in total. This is probably one of the biggest things to note on this project, 20 parcels in total. There are five parcels in negotiation and 15 parcels in possession. However, right-of-way on those five has been put on hold by the district due to budget concerns right now. So once those are addressed, which I don't have a timeline on that, but we'll keep the city informed. We'll proceed back with those five parcels. There were two projects that I'm sure of in Denton County within the Dallas district. This was one with the right-of-way hold and FM 1171 West, the new location. Both of these are new locations. - Before we get going, I love how y'all always highlight the changes. That's great. I really appreciate that every meeting. Maybe I'm misremembering from the last report, but I thought we had all the environmental clearance done. So this is clearly an issue where I didn't understand the order of events in the process. Can you update us a little bit about when we go get core approval and when that is in the process? Because I thought we'd cleared all the environmental clearances. - Yes. The environmental, well, really the environmental is never clear until you complete the projects accepted by TXDOT. But the environmental clearance is ongoing throughout the project. In this particular section, the environmental was clear to begin purchase right-of-way, and that's the federal requirements. However, there was further coordination that had to be done with the core that's ongoing as far as the application for construction. So it is environmentally clear. TXDOT would not have been able to begin the right-of-way acquisition project. There's an ongoing process with the core, which is typical on these type of projects. - So, okay. So I guess I understand that in the end. Let me summarize a little bit to make sure that, you know, there's been some preliminary clearance. It's allowed us to move forward, but there's just sort of ongoing monitoring and regulation of the properties. That's sort of where we are? - Yes. Exactly. - Okay. All right. I appreciate that. Any other questions on this item? All right. Thank you. - Okay. The Loop 280 East connector, and I saw there was a few questions that I received this morning that I can go through. Westwood, the consultant, is addressing the 60% schematic comments and as well as what was generated from the value engineering study, revising the roadway alignment to add an additional lane in each direction for a total of four lanes in each direction, and I think that was one of the questions that was generated. That was based on traffic and direction from the textile Dallas district, to go ahead and ensure there's room for four lanes across the entire project. And there were a couple more questions that I remember. That was one. - Commissioner, did you have a question? Or do you want to finish with this and we'll take questions? - Sure. TxDOT has been meeting with Southwire and the city, you know, to get any concerns they have worked out for the connector right there at 380, and we're right now responding to comments to generate from last public meeting. - I guess what changed in the traffic between the initial... - There's ongoing traffic studies just similar to the environmental as you go along, and right now these comments are related to demographic studies that y'all are gonna, I guess, talk about later, and the mobility 2050, cogs mobility 2050 plan. - Okay, and then one of the other questions was on the third bullet up here, at the end of the sentence it says, and adding additional lanes from and to US 380 into downtown Denton. It sounds like widening 380, but I don't think that's what that means. Can you clarify what that means? - Yes, it's just right at the connection, additional lanes for the ramps and the frontage road, future frontage road, that will continue to the east eventually for the new freeway. That's what the additional lanes are for the frontage road. - Okay, so that's the six to eight lanes change is also being referenced in that third bullet? - Yes. - Okay, and then my last question on this one was, DEXDOT recently finished a 10 foot side path on the north side of US 380 between May Hill and the Greenbelt, and do we have current schematics showing the routing of that, just to make sure there's not a giant detour? - Yes, the continuation of the shared use path is shown on the loop 288 schematics. There are portions where it's on both sides and portions where it's a sidewalk on one side and shared use on the other, but it's continuation from 35 over to 380. - Are we able to get, I mean, that's the only part I'm interested in. Are we able to get sort of the current schematics? I know they can change that would show that routing. - Yes, the city should have the current schematics, but we can provide an updated copy, but the engineering has the schematics I know. - Okay, thanks. - If I recall from the community meeting on this that was held a couple of months, a year ago, the side path that's going along the 288 portion, there was a part of it on the south side where it was not going to be present because there was very tight space constraints there. I'm just curious if you happen to know if that is being impacted by the expansion in Lane Count. - The only place right now that's constrained is between Locust and Sherman, so to my knowledge, that's the only part that's constrained. We can look into it and answer your question more fully on the east end, but there was room there for the pedestrians. - Okay, all right. Thank you. - I had a lot of similar questions, Barry, and I apologize. Obviously, there's a new thing with lots of impacts, so there's going to be a lot of curiosity and questions and concerns that we'll bring forward to you and to staff. Like some of the other commissioners, I'm very much interested in actually if we could get some details on, because I didn't see it in the backup, maybe I just missed it, on the new flow and transportation metrics that led to the expansion desire. What metrics are we seeing that are saying that we want to expand from six to eight lanes? What's the pressure from the newest engineering results? If we do change from six to eight lanes, there's a number of impacts that I thought we sort of had nailed down. Some of them were mentioned like the side path alignment, what's going to happen with that one. We had talked about, especially at the Kingsrow, Windsor area, the number of entrance and exit and feeder lanes and how that's going to cross. I think it would be really good for the committee if staff could get us the alignments that are coming out of this. The alignments are being worked on right now, but yes, once that's complete, we can provide that for sure. I guess there was all of it. The pedestrian elements and ramping configurations won't be affected. There was always room in the middle for expansion, so that portion of it would not be affected. Essentially, the additional lanes are going to be removal of additional median. Are we going to completely close the median off and have a concrete barrier or something? There will be a barrier, similar to the one that's there now. No matter whether there's three lanes and the grass in front of it or how it's configured, the median barrier will go back no matter what. As soon as we get a little bit farther along with the design, yes, we can get that typical section over to you. This is something recent that just came up. As you know, we just wanted to report on it and keep the city in the loop. No, I appreciate that a lot. The more engagement and the more we can keep ourselves and the public in front of it, the less concerns and fear there will be. If we're doing that then, then a couple of other things that I'm not sure whether that's barrier staff. You mentioned it here, the south wire alignment. I don't know how that's impacted because they had very tight space to go around that curve in the open field of their property and still maintain their expansion potential in that region. One thing we're looking at now is for them to still have availability of parking underneath the structure. That's ongoing being evaluated, so try to minimize any impact to their business. To my understanding, their current expansion that they're planning was not affected by the alignment at all. It's just what they have planned in the future that they're making potential adjustments to. However, the current alignment works around that. It's just their parking was affected. We're trying to work and figure out what is needed for them to park through a joint use agreement with the city. I look forward to learning and getting details about that, so I appreciate that comfort. The other one is, and I feel sheepish for not remembering the business's name, but Rite of Gisling is a business on the south side. That's about where the exit ramp up to the bypass from the east-west section is. There were some questions about how the ramping would affect their ingress and egress to their facility and parking lot. You may know the answer here, and if you could tell me that's cool, but otherwise, I'd love to get some additional information about how this expansion potentially impacts their ingress and egress. Kind of ties into the answer previously on the connection. That's a portion of the frontage roads for the future freeway further to the east, so we're looking at exactly how far to build the frontage roads to maintain access to all those properties on the south side and the north side, too. It's still in the works, I guess. It's still in design, but that's the point we're at with it right now. I appreciate that we've had a fairly significant change, and that's causing us to reconfigure things. A lot of that's up in the air, but the only reason I bring it up is these have been the points of concern prior, and we had reached a stable point in our understanding of the alignments, and so these will be the same pressure points as we go forward now that the alignment is a little different. I think, and maybe a little bit farther forward is exactly we want to maintain access for all the properties, and how to get that done the best way is kind of where we're at right now. The last one I had is I'm a little unclear what we're doing at Lakeview Boulevard. Can we describe that? I mean, I know you don't have the final alignments, but I mean, can you add a little clarity to what we think is going on at Lakeview? I'm going to have to get back with you on that one as far as providing. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. But that's kind of the same point. All this ties in together at that same location, and the consultant's working through several options, working with the district, us, and the city to determine what we're going to move forward with. Okay. No, I appreciate that. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. Now, staff on the other hand, I'm going to put them on the staff. No, I'm kidding. Okay, so any other questions on this? All right. Thank you. Okay, moving on to the next section, Bonnie Bray. We keep this in here. We're working with the city to make sure this project is still being worked on with the Loop 288 expansion. FM 1515. This is another one that we're going to have 100% plans that are being updated to the 2014 specifications. Expect that to be completed soon. I think there was some things that they went back on recently for another update, but that should be done. Atmos is in their final design, and this project is scheduled for leading currently, ready to lead in June 2025. It's currently unfunded. As soon as the funding is available, this project should be ready to go. So there's another project we're going to have the plans ready to go on the shelf, shovel ready as soon as funding is available. Go ahead. Forgive my ignorance. Is this a new road? No, that is Airport Road. Airport Road. I got it. Yes, sir. Thank you. No, and I appreciate Councilor Holland is newish to the Mobility Committee, and he has come up to speed very quickly. We appreciate that. I'm going to follow up from his question. I know that in prior questioning we'd had for this segment, there'd been a lot of concern as we go to do utility realignments because it's really dense in utilities because it's an industrial area. Some questions I'd ask John, as part of this getting ready to let and designing our plans, I know we have to design what are the interim flow patterns that we're going to use when we're closing up segments? Is that still on target so far? There's not really a concern. There's a lot going on here, and that's going to cause you all to do a lot of work. My question is more, there's so much going on, are we still on target kind of thing? There's a lot of facilities out there. There's a lot of employees affected. You don't want them to be late for work or getting home and the whole thing. That's one thing. The goal is to maintain the same or better through all the traffic control that's existing there right now. And that's the way the project is designed, the traffic control is laid out. So I don't know if that answers your question. So I guess when we get to that point, because I know it's not yet, but could we have a future item where, and it may just be part of the normal standard, so I may be asking for something you're going to do anyway, but could the committee get an overview of what the temporary traffic flow patterns are expected to be while we do these upgrades? I feel bad for all these industries. There's just the one road, or I guess there's a, what's the north-south segment there? Thank you, western. So there is some pressure release there, but there's just so much going on that it gets real tight. It's better than it was, but this still, the east-west part needs to be, has needed to be upgraded for several years. This project has been around quite a while itself. So when that becomes available, I'd love for the committee to be able to see some sort of summary of what we think the traffic is, just so we can stay in the know and help the public understand what is coming for them. Okay, understood. All right, 1173. The 95% plan set was submitted for review to the district about a month ago, and it's still under review. Once those comments are back, the consultant will address those. Half is our consultants working on the exhibit A with BNSF. And this project is currently moving utilities. There's a number of, let's see what the right-of-way is here. I know there's a few parts of the right-of-way still left. I'll get those also. And the utilities are currently moving. Is there any questions on this one? I don't see any of them from them, but I did have one. Are we still on track with BNSF on the realignment from 1173 up for the crossing? Yes. Because they often can be a barrier to progress. And no offense to them. There's the section through the, right there. Are you talking about just east of downtown? Moving the crossing? Yes. Yeah. No, I'm here at this site. Because we were going to close that 1173 and move the crossing to Bartold. And that's going to be dead-ended at that curve, as I understand? That's actually an easier, that's actually moved faster than the crossing to the east of downtown. We're working with the BNSF on the width of the crossing, and the crossing gates are existing and proposed through there. So really, the crossing at the, in the downtown area is a little bit farther behind, but everything is still scheduled to be done by ready to let of August 2025. Well, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, we don't have any controllers to say over Chrome. So we'll leave that one where it is. Okay. The outer loop is on schedule for our original schedule. Schematic approval is still scheduled for December 2025 and environmental clearance of the summer of '26. We're coordinating with other agencies. There's a scoping meeting planned for, it says August 24th, August, but I think it's actually scheduled for September 4th, that the city will be, will be at City Staff. The, the, the community has seen the preliminary layout on alignment maps, but I'm not sure, Councilor Holland, have you seen those maps? So if staff, could you get, I mean, so we don't have Councilor Holland having to force to go back to the records. Could we get him the maps so that he can review those? Cause I don't know that they've been fully completely made public, but the community has seen them. So. And one thing to, to, on all the outer loops that we have, Rockwall, Kauffman, Denton, even Brazos, if you go to the Denton County outer loop.com, there is a lot of information. If you want to skim through the background really fast to learn how we got here, it is really, we put everything on there. I've been to a couple of meetings. But we have that, that high school meeting had 12 alignments. I think we're down to two or three as I recall. Well, essentially two, but there's three or four that have had, it depends on how the, how it's set up. So we're, I would say roughly four, four alignments at this point still. Yeah. And that, that way we bring Councilor Holland up to speed in case he has any, any questions and concerns. I just want him on the same page as the rest of us who've had the opportunity to see that map. The, now I know that, and I brought this up with John in the past. I know that Texas Parks and Wildlife has been reviewing the Greenbelt area for, for potential, I forget the name of the fund, Millennial Fund or something, expansion of the Greenbelt areas. There's, there's nothing written in stone, but that is, that is in play right now. Is that having any interaction with the planning? Yes. I mean, we're coordinating with all governmental agencies. There's Texas Parks and Wildlife, there's the US Fish and Wildlife EPA, a number of different agencies that, that we're coordinating with on the, on the project. So as far as there's every thing is, is being evaluated as far as the different alignments or what we can do within that core area through the Greenbelt. Through the Greenbelt. The last time we touched base, we were talking about potential to save the bridge because it's a historical bridge. We'd been taught the Aubrey Bridge there at, at the Greenbelt. We'd been talking about a stacked alignment. Is that still the plan or we're moving that around? Cause I know that was somewhat influx. It's still influx. There's the stacked option is the option that gets through with no additional right away needed. However, to make a safer facility they, there is a desire to, to get the expansion at some point, expand the right away where the stacked option is not, is not the best option. However, that option will, can be constructed without any additional right away from tech stock. It's basically, we've got all the lanes over the other lanes as far as the actual freeway. So it comes together. They go here and then really. Okay. It's, that's approximately about a mile and a half across there currently. So that would be, that's right now that a constricted section based on the current, I think it's like 150 something feet of right away that tech stock currently owns at 428. There's a lot of moving parts there. So, and, and, and, but we're working through different options and it just is going to take a lot more coordination, which that's the route that we're going. And I'm presuming, go ahead. I'm presuming the trade-off is, is a higher construction cost versus condon, condonation of, of property. Well, through there is all the core property. Oh. So, they're mainly more of a safety issue than anything else is, is, is a driving force of that. Wanting to get away from the stacked option. Barry, can you update Councilor Holland on, on how the state interacts with the, with federal departments in situations like this? It begins with the early coordination. ITS has been very successful in the past of working with the core on 2449 and various different projects that the core has jurisdiction on in the County. And so that's one, that's the, the first piece is just having a, a strong working background. And then, as far as on the design side, it's just working through all these different options and, and getting everything done at the lowest level possible before pushing it up the, up the chain. So, We don't have control over the federal government. They, they are a bigger entity than us. So they, they set the rules. All right. And then, is there any other questions on that one? No. All right. Moving on to Elm and Locust, as I'm sure y'all are aware, the contractor south of downtown has everything pretty much done except for striping, pavement markings and, and different things, but they're now working on the, on the section on the square. So to my understanding that's got a timeline at the end of the month, I believe, the end of September, I think. So they're making every effort to get that, that done. Questions on this? I know this had a lot of a, a public heartburn. Go ahead. This is likely more for, for our staff. But I've noticed that the detour route, we've added quite a few stop signs around town. And one of them is at Cedar and McKinney. And that, if you're headed westbound on that one, that stop sign I think is not getting noticed by a lot of drivers. Folks are not, they're speeding through it, which if other folks are expecting traffic to be stopped because they know that there's a stop sign there, I think that could cause some issues. So I was just hoping staff could maybe go out, have a look see, see about maybe a stop bar or slightly moving the location of the sign for better visibility or something. Is there a response before I change the floor? Yeah, I'm happy to take a look at it. We'll have staff look at it. Can we still remember? I was just going to build on that, that I almost didn't notice the stop sign. But I was like, am I supposed to stop here? So yeah, so some kind of clarification. Like I saw the stop sign, but I was like, maybe it's in the wrong spot. So yeah, something to clarify that I did stop, but I was confused. And we'll, I'll also notify TxDOT. I know Chandra will also. Yeah, as we, I mean, this is a high traffic area and I know that we have some of those LED outline stop signs that, you know, really make it clear to the public, some other mechanism to really make it clear to the public that there is a, there is a change happening. And now, and this, my comment is I'm, I'm concerned about, you know, two elements of this. It's a temporary thing. I know, you know, it's just a highly congested area in a, in a well trafficked area. And so there's just going to be growing pains. But, so this is, these questions are that, that sort of eat a north south segment along. What is it? Austin? No, what is, what is just the East road from the square? Is it Austin? Yes. So that one, that's going to have a lot of new traffic and it's, it's, it's heavily pedestrian, heavily cycled, heavily food trucked. And, and because of the proximity of some of our entertainment events, there's going to be a lot of bike ped people that are probably not fully mentally competent. I'm trying to talk about drunk people walking around there from the bars. I'm just going to lay the cards out there. And so that, that concerns me greatly that we have appropriate traffic measures. Even, I understand they're temporary, but there, there's no such thing as a temporary accident with a pedestrian. Understood. Yeah. That's one thing, especially when you're doing a project and accelerated as what the work on the square currently is. There is a concern, safety concerns for sure. One consideration could be, you know, getting information out on your website or different things to, to notify the public of, not just the, not just the construction ongoing, but the timelines and different things, different detour routes that can be, that can be put on there. A good example I think is SM Wright Parkway. There's a website that TechStat maintains that shows a lot of different detour routes that's currently ongoing. They have a lot of project history just like the outer loop does, but there's also a page that addresses everything. And that's related to ongoing construction and traffic control is a very good example. Back on the, the segment of Elm and Locust that was just reconstructed or repaved in a previous meeting. I don't think you were at this one, but I asked if we were going to have the opportunity to do the striping ourselves or somehow change the design of the striping. And the answer was yes, we would be able to. However, I haven't heard any of those discussions. So I'm assuming it might be too late. Yeah. So I'm going to assume it's probably too late to come up with a new plan or something like that. And if it is too late, I'm curious if TechStat has a striping plan that we can see. I have seen when they restriped the Elm and Locust north of McKinney between McKinney and University, for example, they super narrowed the shoulder. And so a lot of people were biking on that. And now if you bike in that, because it's so narrow, cars are a lot closer to you. Somebody almost got hit in the head with a rearview mirror one time. So, so I'm just curious if they're, if they're going to change anything, if we don't, if we're not changing anything, I guess. Sure. So Trevor Crane, director of Capital Projects. So TechStat is going to put it back just like it was for now. So where you're currently working through that turn back process, it's actually at the Dallas district now. Once this construction is complete, that turn back will come back to council for final approval. And then the city of Denton will take over the ownership of those roads. The plan is once we finish our Elm and Locust phase two, which is the project that goes from McKinney north to 380, then we'll work with our transportation planning team to evaluate that entire corridor. And we will have the opportunity to change kind of configurations, striping, those types of things. The only stipulation is that we, we cannot do a road diet. So we have to keep the same amount of traffic on there, but it doesn't necessarily mean we can't, you know, limit lanes or narrow those or anything like that. So that will, that will be something that we come back and look at as a part with our transportation planning team to determine what that looks like moving forward. So we will have that opportunity. All right. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Trevor. I'm going to follow up from there. I mean, to the extent that we can, I understand that bureaucratically we have to have the ownership of the road to control it, but to the extent that we can interoperate and, and, and reduce the number of construction events and striping events because it would be better to do, I mean, if you're finalizing the, the physical concrete and asphalt and then it would be lovely to strike what we can in advance rather than to have a second event interfere with our fall entertainment cycle, which brings in all our value added tax and sales tax to the community and allows us to pay for the striping in the first place. It would be lovely if we could integrate that as much as possible. As far as the tech stock side, I'll relay that information. And I know the city will also, once the strippers are mobilized, they'll, they'll get it done within, you know, three, three days is what I'm asking, estimating. So the main thing is, is to, to get them out there as soon as it's done and I'll relay that concern. And I think tech stock's already aware of it for sure, but I'll, I'll just say that you mentioned it. I appreciate that. My, any other questions? I do have one more. Okay. So, um, this is not a Barry question. This is a staff question and it is on the edge of mobility as, as we drift into economic development. And, um, for these kinds of mobility projects that have an economic impact on businesses, I would love it if staff could bring to this committee or council, whichever is appropriate, um, some sort of, uh, plan for mitigating the pain, uh, for economic development and whether that's a sort of a construction insurance kind of approach or, or something like that, because it is painful during our high use months for these businesses. And it, it, it's potentially, uh, you know, door shutting for some of them. I've already got an item scheduled for September 10th to talk about that council. Excellent. You're, you're telepathic. I appreciate that. Any other questions on this item? All right. Thanks for that concludes our report for the mobility portion. Thank you. All right. So moving on we'll go to, uh, item D, MC24025 receiver porthole discussion regarding the NCTC, uh, demographic projection updates for regional travel demand forecast models. Good morning chair, um, and, uh, committee members, uh, Farhan Bhatt, deputy director of transportation services division. I'm here to present a 2050 demographic forecast process that, uh, uh, North central Texas council of government is following and, uh, in that process, they are also seeking feedback from, uh, local jurisdictions and, uh, and other, uh, key players in the region. Uh, this is an extremely important process for, for, uh, for, uh, for jurisdictions as well as for NCTCOG, because, uh, this process relies on a lot of data sets that, uh, go into, uh, uh, predicting what the future would look like for the region. And then the, these data sets then inform their, uh, a modeling tool and forecasting tool that they use, which I'll talk about in later slides and, and, uh, present some scenarios, but the future would look like. So it is, uh, important for cities and counties and, and other key stakeholders to provide updated feedback for these demographic data sets, uh, so that the developments that are taking place now or in future, they are well represented. Uh, this, uh, presentation will include some information on base data. Uh, that is the data where, uh, this demographic data sets are, uh, are rooting from, and then it will also talk about county level, uh, data targets or, or targets or forecasts that are set in stone. That will not, that are, that we cannot change because they are county level targets and they are set by, uh, and NCTCOG's forecasting process. And then we'll talk about preliminary demographics that they have presented in the form of their preferred scenario, uh, through their modeling process and through which they are saying that, okay, this is, these are the demographics for certain years and please review these. And if you disagree or agree, just provide, uh, we could provide our feedback to NCTCOG and we have an opportunity to make those changes so that our transportation investments are reflected in their, in their model, uh, forecast model. Um, I'll also briefly discuss or present estimated traffic congestion levels in now and in future and how it is predicted or forecasted to be changed and, and how it may impact our region. And then demand flow paths of least resistance where they have a modeling approach where they are seeing and they're trying to capture how, if we don't have any, uh, latency or any condition, then where people would go. And it kind of reflects how the demographics will change in our region. And then, uh, I'm gonna, in the end, I'll, uh, provide information on local review process that the city staff is following and how we are making sure that all our developments are updated and updated in this demographic data, uh, forecasting process. So we begin with base data where, which is, which is essentially the current data set that, uh, uh, that, uh, NCTCOG is following this data set includes, uh, demographic essentials like, uh, population, employment, average household size, average income, and lots of other information. In fact, employment is classified, re-classified into different groups based on how different land uses are changing. And then, uh, this data is extracted from many stable data sources, including census data sets, journey to work data, American community survey, uh, and, and, and, and other parcel level data sets. Going to the demographic synthesis side, there is a very well-defined process that NCTCOG follows where, uh, they take this all, uh, data from data sources, stable data sources, and then they develop a how synthesis for different categories. For example, households, as I said, average income, they would just specify that by different, uh, geography levels. Auto ownership is one of the, uh, key variable that helps assess, helps us assess how the equity side of the story is when it comes to our region, and then population and employment, of course. And this also include markets and activity capture, where once this, these data sets are available, then NCTCOG goes further, uh, in, in, uh, deep dive these data sets and try to figure out where these activities are and how, uh, the transportation investments, uh, could weigh what, what potential scenarios are. This, this, uh, market capture basically helps the stakeholders in, including NCTCOG and cities to develop scenarios to test on the models. And then finally, scenario analysis is conducted using forecast, travel demand forecast models. These models are regional in nature. They are aggregated in nature, and, uh, the purpose is to, uh, see, uh, return on investment, uh, when it comes to transportation decision, informed decision making process, and see on aggregate level on regional scale what projects should, how the project should prioritize and which project should be prioritized, should be prioritized, and then also where, which jurisdiction would get these fundings. Talking about this, uh, uh, base data set, so this is the resolution that model sees. This shows, uh, different land uses, city limits, subdivisions, parks, block groups, and these, these are just selected, uh, uh, data information that I'm showing here. But this could go a little bit, uh, more in depth, and I could show you in the next slide. But, uh, just to give us an idea that these blue lines, um, that we are seeing, they are traffic analysis zones or traffic service zones. These zones are the resolution that are, the data resolution that is fed to, uh, the model. Uh, to understand it better, we, we could go, when it comes to data, we could go to the block group level and define where, what land uses look like. But for the model, we use traffic analysis zones, zones, and that is where the information is aggregated for the models and fed to the model. So what it essentially means is that all those variables that I was talking about, uh, average income and population and employment, they are aggregated to traffic analysis zones. This is another example where this is the working, um, file where we could, uh, when the local jurisdictions are reviewing the data sets, they could review in a finer resolution at a grid level or block group level or census tract level. This, uh, slide shows, um, the county forecast targets for population, which means that these targets are set in stone for these years. 2019 is the base year, and then we have 2035, 2050 horizons for, uh, for the projected years. What's important is that we could see for Denton, uh, between 2019 and 2050, um, we have significant, uh, population increase. And, uh, so that shows that how the population numbers will change with the compound and will growth rate of 2.5%. And the population is increasing to, uh, more than 112%, uh, the percentage between 2019 and 2050. With the same, we have county forecast targets employment. Uh, we have, this is also set in stone and we have, uh, we can see that for Denton County, we have around 127% increase with 2.7% growth rate. So that means we are more than doubling in, when it comes to employment numbers for our county, for Denton County. This slide presents the largest cities ranking for 2019, uh, it reflects that Denton was not in top 10 cities when it comes to population, but then by 2035 Denton appears to be coming around, uh, eighth or ninth in ranking. And then in 2050, uh, it goes to seventh, uh, most populated city in the county. The same goes for the employment. Employment actually goes faster. By 2035, uh, we will be, uh, seventh. And then by 2050, we will be, uh, sixth, uh, largest city by, in terms of employment. The growth in employment between 2019 and 50 is, uh, uh, more than doubled. It's, it's, uh, it's growing fast. And this is not county level. This is city level, by the way. So when it comes to city of Denton, these slides show, um, uh, the, the change in, um, in demographics, how they are changing in terms of population density. Uh, I could just quickly move to the next slide so that I could show you how it changes. So this is 2019 and see how the, I wish if you could load the PowerPoint. Do we have a PowerPoint access here? No. Okay. We could just live with that. No problem. So I think this is, uh, uh, this, this reflects the change and, um, I could point out some areas. So for instance, if you go between on the west side, um, uh, where it says Denton, if you see south of that in the next slide, you could see how the growth is changing. Yeah, we could do that. So, yeah, so this area is, uh, chaining fast and then let's, let's see, uh, look at the growth now again in Denton. So I think when it comes to population density, uh, it shows that significant growth is coming. Um, it's, it's given and, and, uh, it's, even though it's a forecasting process, but I know that the forecasting process has 10, 10, 10 to 15% variability. Uh, we won't, uh, have much variation in that. So it's coming when it comes to employment, uh, it's again the same as the tables reflected. Um, I presented earlier, um, we have Denton County here and then look how the colors are changing again. And this is 2019 to 2035 and then, and then again 2050. So significant changes coming when it comes to employment and population demographics and then average household size may stay stable, but then, uh, these numbers are changing fast, which is, um, from transportation planning perspective, it is a concern because I'll show you in next slides how the traffic condition levels are changing here. Uh, so in terms of traffic condition, this map is showing you 2019. This is Denton area at, uh, 20, 20, 23 levels of congestion. Uh, and then look how traffic condition changes in 2045 and look how it changes in 2050. So, so that is a measure of, uh, some measure of when, when we say that it's, uh, around $30 billion, it includes a lot of variables, time loss, productivity, economic benefits, environmental pollution, where the VHD increases if the cars are idle in traffic condition and a lot more. There are many variables that are captured in there, but I could, maybe we could talk about it offline. But before you continue to these models include the updates, like we talked about this morning with ITS or are they with the old configuration? Uh, no. So I'm coming to those slides, uh, in, in, uh, maybe a minute or two, it will be there and you will have, um, uh, full understanding of how the process would work on that. Uh, so, uh, and this, uh, these slides show paths of least resistance, which means that they remove all the latency or any delays in the model and every state is treated equally. And then they said, okay, where people would go. So when that opportunity was given, how, look how, uh, Denton's, uh, this is Denton County again and how it changes in the, uh, the, the, the, the access point for desired lines are showing that there is, there are, uh, uh, there is more and more desire to travel to, um, Denton and, and northern areas in, in comparison to Dallas, just Dallas. So to, to address your question on local review process or we will, do we provide update to the NCT COG? Yes, that is the whole, uh, purpose of this exercise is where NCT COG is reaching out to local jurisdiction and asking that, look, this is our forecast. We followed a certain process based on, um, a statistical synthesis and then modeling approaches, which are stable, which are calibrated, validated, and, and, but they are regional in nature. So they are saying, uh, this is your opportunity, cities and counties look at these numbers. If you disagree, if you have more developments, please improve that, update that, give us the justification for that and we will update our forecast, our, our numbers. And so, um, so at, at city of Denton, there's an application tool that they have provided us access to and we are using that tool to update these numbers. City, at city of Denton, uh, several departments, uh, we have formed a team, transportation services has formed a team where we have several departments working staff from several departments working together, looking at forecast. And, um, as a matter of fact, we had a couple of meetings before we have another meeting coming tomorrow. We will be finalizing these forecasts and we'll be updating, uh, NCT COG with these forecasts by the timeline set, which is I think August, uh, end of August. And we are on time. We are, we are just collaborating with, uh, many staff from, uh, from different departments on this. This in, so this process, local review process includes review of households, population and employment, uh, projects in terms of projects, projects, developments, uh, any environmental concerns that we have, we will get feedback from environmental services department on that. Uh, we have 2019 data. We are reviewing those datasets. We are looking at projections as well. And in terms of what developments we have, we will make those changes when it comes to population and employment. And, and, uh, if there are other categories as well, we are not in the beginning, we are not working on the TAZ level, but we are working on the, um, uh, finer resolution level as the data comes. As a matter of fact, we have also contacted many developers to get feedback on their developments. We have contacted medical facilities, uh, UNT, TW, we reached out to TW, uh, you and, and, and many other regional stakeholders for their feedback on how their developments will be changing. Uh, our contact points, uh, for, for the update process for departments, uh, team, departmental team that we have formed is, uh, Charlie Rosendahl and, uh, Greg Scott. Greg Scott in transportation services is leading this effort, uh, to updating the demographics and to, to steering the, the direction that we want to choose. Um, I'm available, also available to address any questions on, um, interaction with NCTCOG or, or overall process. Um, that's all. Questions for Dr. Budd. Hey, Farhan, thank you so much for your presentation. Um, I, I think in the news recently, I think it was somebody from NCTCOG was saying, um, that in the long term, they're not gonna have the funding to keep expanding highways to kind of keep up with, um, growth of automobile traffic. I'm curious if, um, the congestion maps we saw, if those traffic models assume that we stick to what we're doing now, where we prioritize, I mean, the reality is most people are driving alone in a car. There's, sometimes there's a passenger, sometimes there's not. Um, is the traffic model sort of assuming that that's kind of what we continue to do is prioritize, um, single occupancy vehicle trips or, and we're not really investing in the more efficient people movers like transit biking, walking, that kind of thing. Uh, NCTCOG is highlighting this fact as well and they're just, um, proposing that the region as a whole start thinking about multimodal, um, uh, use and they're, uh, they are working with a process that is called Transit 2.0. Uh, that's, uh, been developed and where, uh, NCTCOG has highlighted their, uh, suggestions for cities and local jurisdictions and they are willing to work with each, uh, city, uh, to, to address any issues to prioritize those projects. If the cities bring them forward, we are a part of that process. I am, um, uh, representing city in, in, in that effort, but then of course we will get feedback from city leadership as well as, uh, based on our, uh, our own analysis as well and then we'll make sure that we provide, uh, multimodal solutions. Other, other questions? Go ahead. Um, I've got a few here. Um, so I know from kind of reading around that there are, there are at least quite a few studies that suggest that historically traffic projection studies have been quite wrong and have a tendency to overestimate, uh, traffic, especially like a decade or two out into the future. Uh, do we know anything about like, have adjustments been made to the model on account of those studies or, um, like, do we know how accurate the model that we're working with tends to be? So what happens is that these aggregate models, they are calibrated and validated and then there's a Delphi, uh, review panels, uh, which, uh, assess the models, be it FT, uh, FDA for multimodal use and FHWA for auto use. And, uh, so on, on arterial level, these models are well calibrated. And when I say well calibrated, that means that there are standards specified by FHWA where they have, for freeways, for example, the criteria is much stricter where they say 5%. Not, uh, the volumes, uh, differences should not be more than 5%. For arterials, it ranges between 5 to 10%. So they are well calibrated and, and, uh, validated. Now, since the models are regional in nature, they are aggregated in nature. So it often, uh, it is misinterpreted because if we try to get local decisions from those models, that is a flawed approach because we need to have, use micro simulations for that. These models are geared for regional decisions, for regional investments. So I think that's how they should be used. Um, so how would, how would, for example, uh, DCTA is planning to invest into the A train, make it faster, make it 15 minute frequency. How would, for example, that factor in to the model? And then if DCTA committed to kind of toss out a ridiculous number here, like quintuple bus service in the city of Denton, so that it was also much easier to get to the train, would that factor into the model? Yes. So that's where the local process is where NCTCOG is doing a really good job of reaching out to cities and acknowledging the fact that we are, this is a regional, uh, in a regional analytical tool, the model, the aggregate model. So they are reaching out at, look, we have done our, our job of estimating these forecasts, but it's now it's your opportunity to make those updates for DCTA would be part of that process as well. And I know they are because they'd be looking at these forecasts. So, um, there will be an opportunity for DCTA to look at their plans, future plans and see if their markets are captured. And if they are not, uh, this will be a good opportunity for DCTA, uh, to capture those markets in the data sets. The same goal for us, we are looking at our developments where the numbers are changing in terms of population and employment, and we are making sure that we get as close as possible. Um, and then finally, uh, there's projections on the costs of congestion. Um, but I remember uh, watching last meeting of this body, uh, Commissioner Rumore, uh, pointed out that health and safety, uh, and like property damage impacts of vehicle travel are higher for the city of Denton than congestion related impacts are, I believe. Um, is there similar, uh, projections for like, if we were to fix congestion via, you know, adding more lanes, what would that do to property damage and to like human life costs? I think adding more lanes is one solution, but we have to go multimodal. I think that's the direction, but it doesn't have to be overnight, but it is the direction that as a city we have to follow. We have to look at multimodal options and really expand on, on this, uh, aspect of planning side and other, uh, approaches that look, these condition levels again are aggregate, regional, and for any, uh, city specific analysis, we'll have to use micro simulation and then get those, uh, for, for city facilities. These, uh, reflect the, they don't be this red color that we are seeing here is not reflecting somebody traveling from Argyle to Denton, which is sort of local trip. Um, but it is reflecting what's going on between Dallas and Denton, uh, or, or, or of that nature. So for any local analysis, we need a separate set of models and they are called micro simulation models or in some cases mesoscopic models as well. We could, we could, we could develop those, but I think there are many other ways we could look into those through our many studies that are coming. Thank you. Councilor Holney, any questions? Um, I, I have a ton and this is, um, but I'll, I'll try to keep myself under control. Um, partly because Farhan, you and I, we've talked many times, modeling is what I did for a living. Um, so, um, and I will try to not be too academic about it, but I think this is the problem we're dealing with, with a wonk, a wonk and a wonk on the, on the mobility committee. Um, so, uh, forgive me if I do drift into the weeds a little bit. Uh, I'll try to rein myself in. Um, a lot of the questions that I think you heard so far were scenario modeling. Um, and so I guess the question I have is how, how fast are these models calculated once they have, they start from the, from the base data or even the modified base data with the local interactions. How, how quickly does it take to calculate a model? Is it a day, a week, two months? You know, how, how, how, how fast can we get new, new projections? So there are different levels. Four step models usually are faster, but these models are activity based to a gear towards activity based, the one NCT gov is using, uh, or, or semi activity based, I would say not fully. So six days for one, uh, I think five to six days. Uh, that's what my understanding is. And then, uh, but there are versions of models which are more direct, uh, very quick ones. I have uh, run models that would take only six to eight hours. And then I've dealt with models that would take 20 days as well. Of course, processing technology also goes with that. Right. No, no, I understand. And you know, um, there, there's opportunities to work with our, our, uh, university partners to, to speed that up. Um, the reason I asked those questions is, and you alluded to yourself when you start talking about multiscale and measles scale, um, modeling is the scenario modeling is less, less like for instance, on the DCTA question, it goes to us designing policy. If we do X, then the effect on the model is Y and that's going to help us predict, you know, make a recommendation to council that then councilor Holland and I vote on at that level, uh, in terms of recommendations and, you know, in, in terms of your future projections. So it, it's helpful if we can say, um, I, on these coarse grained models, um, as we drill down, it's, it's, it's helpful if we can do some of these scenario modeling. So I guess one of my question in order to rein myself in is, um, would it be helpful if we could package some of our scenario questions to you in advance? Would that be helpful to get those to you so we could get them in, in, or, I mean, it's sometimes difficult for us to guess what our questions will be, but is, is that going to be something effective or we could get questions to you that would help you incorporate the, the, the microscale and the mesoscale level into a composite model so we can do that sort of scenario modeling? If you're specifically talking about a train, then it, it will be an aggregate model because it's, it's, uh, uh, it's a stretch of train that goes multi-city and, uh, so we could, uh, request NCT Cog to, to run some of those scenarios. We don't have to go microscopic or mesoscopic unless we want to identify corridors. We want to identify some parallel routes or feeder buses, all those, uh, but if we are just looking at what would be the outcome if we had a station here or a removal station there, then we could use NCT Cog's model and benefit from, uh, what's existing there. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. Okay. And part of the reason I ask is even on the large scale, as we do these regional approaches, there are some, this is essentially a, a graph theory analysis with nodes and edges. And so we, if we're putting barriers on the edges, I'm getting real wonky, I'm sorry, but if we're getting, if we're putting barriers on the edges, like if, go, to go back to this, this morning, if we put, if we expand the green belt into a large national park, that puts a, that, that changes the edge weights. So now the nodes don't connect anymore and you will route a path around it. All right. So, um, the same as I'm watching the projection curves on this particular map, as you change from 2019, it's, it's clear that they're just projecting, you go, you know, nothing's in the way of you going and you're going to go at highway speeds, 60 to 80 miles an hour. And that doesn't help us do destination planning or scenario planning or, or decide where we put a thing or how we interact. And, and it doesn't help us do a large scale development modeling. We're like, okay, if we approve an MPC in this area, how's that going? None of that is available at, at this level. So I guess my question to you is, without spending the next 30 minutes discussing this, um, cause we have two more items. Um, how, what kind of questions and inputs do you need from this committee and from council to help you potentially address those kinds of questions? On the development level, they are addressed by TIAs. Typically in the development review process, there is a TIA that the developers have to follow. And if there are small multi-use development or any other development, they would be covered in that. So we don't need to run these aggregate model for those. They are, um, this micro level models or, or assimilation that they run and they provide us some projections or numbers that how the level of service will on the facility will change. And then, uh, the whole process goes with that. So there is a process in place that city follows for these developments. So that on the feedback, uh, what we are planning to do is we'll just have this ready, these, this forecast, um, updated. And, uh, if, um, uh, if necessary, we can, um, present the final update in the next, uh, if, if it is necessary, I believe that it's the simplest process because we are incorporating the feedback. Um, uh, we will be provided to, um, entity called, but, uh, we are open to any other ways, um, Cassie or you, uh, this committee decides staff is here to assist. Okay. Well, I will rein myself in. Do we have any other questions on this item? Cassie, I was just going to say, um, I think Farhan already presented that we have very limited time to provide this information back, but if you have feedback that you'd like us to incorporate, I think we could get with him offline. Um, so we can, uh, incorporate that. All right. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll leave that one there and we'll, and I encourage any of you, if you have questions, please get those to staff so that they can incorporate those as rapidly as possible. Uh, all right. Uh, with that, we will move on to, we finished IMD. We're going to move on to item E MC two four zero two six, receive report and hold discussion regarding the downtown parking study summary findings. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm Natalie Doherty with Farron peers and then I'm joined by my colleague, Josh Peterman, um, who will be able to also answer questions at the end of the presentation. So I'll be speaking to a study we conducted to evaluate parking demand and recommend parking management strategies in the downtown area. So to begin with, we completed a review of, um, big data in order to determine a subset of public parking facilities in the downtown area to complete a detailed parking survey. This data revealed important parking demand characteristics such as the time of day, um, the day of the week that parking demand is busiest. Um, and we also got to identify some of the demographic information of visitors. So this data showed us that most trip making downtown occurs in the central and southern portion of the downtown area around the square. We also found that most trips downtown are for leisure, so they're not tied to a trip to or from home or from work. Um, a good portion of visitors downtown are high school and university age groups. What is a good portion? Um, I think roughly 30 to 40% of visitors. Um, we also found that Fridays and Saturdays have the highest demand for parking downtown. And so this big data also helped us to inform some of the parking recommendations that I'll share towards the end of the presentation. So we mapped an inventory to public parking facilities, uh, in the downtown study area, which was defined as a couple block radius of the Denton square and included the downtown transit center and Quaker town park. Most public parking, um, downtown is free. So you have, um, on street parking closest to the Denton square that is time restricted to two hours during weekdays, during business hours. That's shown in the dark blue area on street. Uh, and then you have other on street parking that is free and unrestricted, um, as you get further south and east, and then the north side of Quaker town park. Uh, we also have, uh, free public parking in lots in orange that are no time restrictions, no payment available. Uh, and then you also have some smaller lots closer to the square, um, shown in that dark green color that are paid lots. And then that light green area represents government lots that are available to the public outside of typical business hours. So we found that there were approximately 2700 public parking spaces in the downtown study area. Um, that's composed of roughly 1200 on street spaces and 1500 off street spaces. In our study, we were able to connect a detailed survey of roughly 40% of that total public parking. Uh, that is a pretty good represent representative sample of all of the parking that is downtown. Um, again, no on street parking is paid in the downtown area. Uh, so what we're looking at is the weekday parking demand or parking utilization. Um, this was conducted in October of 2023 on a Thursday. So what parking demand or parking utilization is, is just the share of parking spaces that has a vehicle parked in it during that time period. Um, so we have a pretty standard distribution of parking demand across a typical day. So we have a peak that is between seven and eight PM. Um, and the second peak that is around 12 to one PM, which is typical dining hours. Um, we have sufficient public parking available downtown for the demand. Typically public parking, uh, is, is too much. Sorry, let me restate that. Typically when we see parking utilization between 85 and 90%, that's when we think that there is not enough supply available for the demand because it makes it difficult for people to be able to find a space and they need to kind of circulate around. So we're seeing on a weekday, um, a peak at 65%. Um, interestingly, we also see that at nine PM, the parking demand is higher than we see at 11 AM. Um, so that's a pretty good indicator that you have a lot of entertainment downtown. Um, it's a little bit more lively on a weekday. Uh, we also collected weekend parking demand. Um, so this was for a Saturday in October and we collected that from 8 AM to 12 AM. So we have a similar distribution of parking demand as we saw on a weekday. Um, but you can see that, uh, the parking demand begins a little bit later in the day, starting at 10 AM. Uh, and we have a higher peak from eight to nine PM, close to 80% utilization, uh, still sufficient parking supply for the demand on what we expect to be the busiest day of the week. So what both of these charts don't show you is the actual distribution of parking demand across the public parking facilities. So I'll go ahead and share that next with you. So we'll be looking at, um, kind of the peak time of the week, which is what we found to be 8 PM on a Saturday. So here you can see for the on street spaces that we have a detailed survey available that closest to the square, you have a really high rates of parking utilization and further away you go from the square, you see that demand go down a little bit. Um, did you have a question for that slide? Go ahead. Sorry. Would you like us to, um, wait until the end and then come back to the slides or sort of ask throughout? You're welcome to ask. Okay. Um, on this one, I noticed only some streets were counted. Why is that? Yeah. So we accounted on street parking and off street parking for 40% of the total parking available. So we were able to collect on 12 street segments. Uh, so we wanted to really take a look at what the highest parking demand, the highest activity areas are, which were closest to the square and, and see how that changes as you go further out. Um, so yes, we are missing some of the parking that's available, uh, further south and east. Thank you. Back a couple of slides. Um, number, number four, I think the, the two hour restriction says who. Yeah. So, uh, we've heard that there's not a lot of enforcement happening in the downtown area. Yeah. There is signage out there that does specify the time restrictions. Okay. Okay. But I mean, if I know that everybody knows that you park your car at eight 39 o'clock when you get to work and you crank it up again at five o'clock when you get off, um, and it's especially annoying. I find it particularly annoying. The, the backend parking on, uh, East Hickory street. Um, I don't see that there's any, that there's any enforcement. Yeah. Do you know, do you know of any enforcement? Uh, no, I'm not aware of enforcement happening too regularly. Um, we're also helping on the citywide parking, uh, project as well. Um, so that's one of the kind of key pieces that we're going to be looking into for recommendations on how to do enforcement without needing, um, you know, staff to be able to be doing that, um, and a way to actually track the citations and follow up with parking fees. Um, returning to the current slide, I noticed that there seems to be a segment or perhaps an intersection there at Cedar and McKinney that indicates 140% utilization. I'm curious how, what that number means. Yeah. So there's not too many spaces on streets. So that number does sound a little bit higher as a percentage, but, um, the way that the parking is striped on those streets is there are spaces that a vehicle can park, but they're not a designated or striped parking space. So there is over parking that's occurring downtown. Um, but from what it looks like when we were out there and from photos, um, people aren't blocking the actual through way on the streets. They are able to kind of tuck themselves over on the side. So that would be like a loading area or parking closer to an intersection than is allowed. Yeah. So near an intersection, usually parking is not allowed within, you know, 40 or 50 feet. And so that's where a parking space isn't striped, but a car can still fit. I think we're going to go ahead. Um, so this is showing the, um, set of off street parking lots that we also collected detailed survey data. Uh, and so we have a mix of paid parking lots and, um, no restrictions on parking. And then we also have a government lot or number seven is, uh, so you can see that the highest, uh, parking utilization is on the free lots that are closest to the Denton square followed by the smaller, uh, paid parking lots near the square. And then as you go further out, the parking utilization is, is much lower. Um, this is what we can expect, right? So people want to be able to park closer to where their destination is located. Um, and what we also found from speaking with the public and, and from stakeholder conversations is that, uh, some of the parking is not well signed. Uh, so it can be a little bit difficult for visitors to identify what is a private lot versus a public versus a paid. So, uh, if you know, there are certain lots near the square that you've always parked at, you're likely to want to stay there rather than tracking out a little bit further. Um, and then also considering the pedestrian environment, uh, if you're parked at lot seven, you're going to have to walk across McKinney street, likely to get to your destination. So, uh, that might be a barrier for some people when they're, they're choosing their parking location. Before we continue, uh, I'm glad count, uh, first your break, uh, had her question. Um, it was, it was my exact same question for the gravel lot there at 174%. Um, it's unstriped, it's barely, uh, curbed. So how many official spots are, are, do we know? I mean, I, this, this, you know, this is, this is probably too detailed a question for the, the, the level of, of this report, but, uh, it's, it's a general through line of, it's often unclear actually how many spots are in a given location. We saw it on the previous slide was street. We see it here with the, with the gravel lot. Uh, and, and so in order to us have a better understanding it, it's probably relevant how many spots we think we should be in a given location. And, and that helps us understand this need for over parking that we see. And so, I mean, we, I understand the general concept that all the cars around the trees and they're everywhere in this lot. And, and so it's just sort of a, you know, a winner take all kind of free for all in that lot. Um, uh, but it would be useful, I think, to understand what the city thinks that lot should be. I think we had that information in the actual report that we can provide. Okay. So we had a count firm that, uh, had a flyover to collect data through aerial imagery of the number of spaces in the various lots and on street. Um, so for that lot, they estimated about 130 spaces available. Um, I would say that there is some room for error within their, you know, count. Um, and it would be probably feasible to actually do a parking lot layout to see how many more spaces that you could fit. Uh, but yeah, this percentage is a little bit skewed thinking about how many parking spaces we think that it can accommodate. And then, um, also just what you've noted that there is a lot of chaos, I guess, in that parking lot. Okay. So I noted that, you know, we have detailed parking survey data for about 40% of, um, the parking facilities downtown, but because we were able to collect those videos and images, um, from an aerial view, we were also able to kind of assess, um, at a broad level in kind of quarter increments, 25%, 50%, 75% full, um, of all of the public parking or most of it in the downtown area. Um, so those photos were available for, um, the Saturday evening from roughly 6 to 8 PM. And looking at that in total, it does, uh, kind of mimic what we saw with the detailed parking survey. So spaces that are closer to the square are more heavily parked than, um, areas further out. Uh, but when we looked at this kind of qualitatively, we do see overall parking demand of roughly 60% across all of the facilities. And so that number is lower than what we saw when we, um, had that subset of parking that we calculated. So the peak on Saturday with, with those facilities was about 80%. Uh, so our estimates are a little bit on the conservative side. Go ahead. Well, and, and, and before, before you do, um, we have about 20 minutes left in the meeting. Um, we, we're going to have a lot of questions. So a question I have for Cassie is, um, is it better to take lots of questions now on this item and maybe table the next capital projects item or some of the memorandum items, or, um, is it better to continue on in our schedule and, and streamline our questions knowing that you're going to get the questions somehow eventually anyway. So the capital improvement program is on a deadline so we have, you know, coming up council approval scheduled for September 17th. So my hope was to get your feedback on the capital projects that we've proposed for 25 today to be able to incorporate any, any feedback for council approval. But if you're, if you feel it's more important to talk through the downtown parking study now we can table it, but we'll, we'll have to bring it back after council adoption. Okay. Um, then I'm, I'm gonna normally I wouldn't ask this, but I'm going to ask in the interest of time that we let her finish her presentation, write it, write down your questions and then that'll give us an opportunity if we can't get to them, um, to just send those emails, uh, those around and staff can send them to all of us and, and we can do the feedback that way. So just in order to save some time to please continue, maybe go a little bit faster through some of these slides. So I was just going to kind of show you how parking demand varies across that Saturday evening between six to eight PM. So the, this is the, the government lot that's on the north side of town, um, north of McKinney street. So you can see that in the evening, although it's available to the public and it's free, there's not a lot of people that are parking there. Um, the lot just south of McKinney street is much more heavily utilized. So maybe that's, you know, distance, but also thinking about the walking environment and need to cross. Um, so here you can see around the square, a lot of the parking is, um, is full. Um, here's where we have to paid parking lots and a free parking lot that shares a driveway and access with one of the paid lots. So, um, what maybe isn't great for the visitor experience is that if you get there a little bit later, when the public parking side of the lot is full, you're going to end up in this paid section of the lot. And so one of our recommendations is to think about, um, you know, separate driveway access and good signage to make it clear that if you're on the paid side, you know, you should be paying, but also we should be thinking about incentives for people to want to pay for parking. Um, so one way to kind of help with redistributing parking is to have more restrictions and payment options closer to the high activity area and the free parking further out so that you do see, um, you know, the parking lots that are further out more full and people aren't trying to circulate quite heavily within this area to find a space. Um, so here's an example, one of the smaller lots that's paid, um, much lower utilization than what we saw on the other side around this time. And then here's on that west side. So, um, the county historical park, you know, people might be parking there for the park itself, but people know this is available to the public. The community market happens there. Um, the lot just across the street is, is not well signed to be public and you can see that no one is really parking in that space. So quickly, we also looked at, um, parking turnover. So that's how long vehicles are saying parked in a space before they are switching out and other vehicles are turning into that space. Uh, so we found that most, um, most people are staying, uh, in downtown for roughly two hours or under, uh, which is a really good sign of an active downtown. So you're getting pretty good turnover in that area. Um, we also saw that people were saying, uh, longer on the weekend than they are on the weekday. Um, and also that, um, people are staying longer in parking lots than they are on street, which we can expect you're more willing to, uh, park in a parking lot if you're going to be walking to more spaces. We also looked at future parking demand. So we were aware of four different developments that were approved in the study area. So there are three multifamily housing developments and one restaurant or brewery. So we estimated parking demand for those developments and, and, um, added that onto what the existing parking demand is. And we still found that there is a sufficient supply of parking in this area. Um, but we would recommend though, in the future, as there's more development occurring downtown is to think about some transportation demand management strategies. Um, so thinking about shared parking, so parking facilities that are available to multiple different uses, um, thinking about supporting other transportation modes, things like bicycle parking or providing transit passes to help reduce that demand, um, or some other strategies like that. Um, maybe you can have a parking mitigation fee that developers, um, pay the city so that the city can help with different improvements. Um, sorry, I might have skipped a side. So we conducted public engagement last fall. So we had a public, uh, pop-up event at a community market and we also had, um, an online survey. And so this feedback was folded into some of the recommended, um, strategies that we have in our toolbox. We also conducted, um, through a survey we found, uh, visitor travel behavior and preferences. So one of the, um, interesting findings from that survey is that most people over 80% are willing to walk more than three minutes to their destination. Um, and over half are willing to walk more than five minutes to their destination. So that's a good indicator that, you know, people are willing to, uh, be a little bit further from their, um, their destination if we're able to kind of support that with, uh, nice walking facilities and things like that. So we also conducted a stakeholder workshop where we, uh, presented our findings and gathered feedback on the draft recommendations and that occurred over the spring. Um, participants identified, um, a need for signage, downtown for parking, but also a consolidation of parking facilities to make it easier for visitors, especially new time visitors to find a parking space, uh, because as you saw, there were quite a few different lots around the downtown area. Um, so if you don't find a space in one, you're gonna have to be looking at different ones to find a space. So other recommendations that came from the stakeholder workshop, um, were to help encourage higher turnover in the, uh, kind of central core around the Denton Square. So thinking about, um, spaces like 15-minute parking, um, or shorter time periods like that. So just to recap, we have about 2,700 public parking spaces and there is a sufficient, uh, parking supply for the existing demand and with the approved developments. So next I'm going to be sharing about our, uh, parking management toolbox. So, um, this toolbox is intended to be used whether in isolation for specific, uh, tools or, uh, using a couple different ones to target specific parking concerns that happen today or to, um, start thinking about how to improve the, the visitor parking experience downtown in the future as you see more growth. So we've organized this toolbox into near-term, midterm and long-term strategies. Um, so the near-term is looking at a one to three-year time horizon. Midterm is three to five-year and then long-term is five-year plus. And so, um, the first strategy here is increase and enhance static signage, which I've talked briefly about. Um, another is to implement time limits and restrictions. Um, so that's to help with distributing parking demand across facilities. The next one is assigning parking locations. So thinking about specific spaces that are designated for employees or for other uses of the curb, like commercial loading or food trucks. Um, some of the other ones include, um, enforcing parking, accommodating pickup and drop-off from TNCs, uh, developing a schedule to actually track and monitor the effectiveness of the different parking strategies that are being implemented. Um, and then also updating parking standards. Um, so specifically with parking standards, we're thinking about, um, wanting to kind of revisit the parking minimums that developers have when building in the downtown area. Um, and specifically residential uses is a good one to kind of target for those changes. So thinking about transportation demand management and reducing that parking demand. So looking at the midterm strategies. So the first one is coordinating valet options. Um, the next two are related to providing, uh, non-vehicle parking spaces and incentivizing, you know, bicycle transit, walking modes through urban design and traffic calming. Um, another is to think about restriping, um, spaces to kind of maximize the number of spaces that you have on street. Uh, another is to increase the use of shared parking. Uh, so when you have complimentary uses, thinking about, um, the banks and the churches that are downtown, they have specific windows where there is, um, a lot of parking demand and off, out, off hours, you could probably fill that parking with other, other spaces. So there's a lot of private parking downtown for specific businesses and that's kind of one, um, way to, to improve the efficiency of the space that you're using for parking. And then the last is to think about charging for parking. So these are in the midterm area just because they, like you required more coordination, they require some technology or actually designing and constructing, uh, new facilities. And then finally for the long term strategies, um, so these ones also require more time because there's agency coordination involved. Um, there's certain strategies that, uh, you know, creating a uniform parking experience across facilities requires a lot of effort to think about applying technology and materials at a city wide scale. So the first is adding off street parking. Um, so this one can be valuable, um, when thinking about wanting to repurpose space on the street for different curb uses. So thinking about commercial loading, um, parklets, uh, bike parking or other active uses on the street, um, it can be helpful to move some of that street parking, um, off street. And then, um, it's not necessarily needed right now to have an off more off street parking, um, but thinking about, about the future, then that could be a good, uh, strategy. Also providing intelligence signage. So that will help visitors be able to navigate to where within the parking facilities are there actually available spots for me. So that helps with efficiency and the visitor experience. Um, and then the third one, creating a uniform parking experience for all publicly available parking, um, that could be a lot of different strategies. So one is thinking about one app that can be used to identify all of the parking. Um, that same app can be used for all of the payments. You could have a similar, you know, signage and standard, uh, information materials to help with that. I mean, you would also think about, um, pulling in some of that private parking into the, the public parking space. And so that could be beneficial for, for private developments as well, if they're getting kind of the funding and support for parking from, from the city. So, um, I wanted to speak a little bit more about off street parking. So this was something that the public raised in the public workshop and online that they would like to have additional parking when there's specific events that are happening downtown specifically because a lot of that parking that's available on the square usually gets closed for those events. Um, and then talking with the stakeholders and the workshop, um, thinking about how there are so many different public parking lots around town, um, having one central location for parking will help with, with managing it, but also helping visitors identify those spaces. So I just have a couple more slides to talk about some considerations for off street parking. So, um, a little bit I've mentioned earlier, but if you're wanting to kind of repurpose that public space on street for active travel modes, shifting, um, parking off street is one good consideration. Another is when you're having limited ways to actually manage the demand or manage the various parking facilities you have. Um, another is when you want to have a concentrated supply of vehicle parking. Um, and the final one is if the opportunity cost is there. So if you're thinking about the construction cost for a parking structure, um, and what it would take to maintain it is that, you know, outweighed by the opportunity. Other considerations are wanting that parking structure to not kind of be an eyesore in the downtown. So trying to make it, uh, look and feel like other different businesses and buildings in that downtown area. You can consider active ground floor spaces with the parking structure above that, um, to help, you know, with, with that look and feel. You could also provide, um, you know, bike parking or, or other uses within that parking structure. And then again, ways to kind of enhance that is through signage or real time signage for, for parking spaces. So here's two examples of where you have active ground floor, uh, retail, where you have a parking structure and you can see that it looks a little bit nicer and is a place that people want to be. Um, you could also have these different retail uses, uh, pay a fee to the city so that they can help to maintain that parking structure. Um, and then lastly, just thinking about locations. So you want to have a, a pretty large piece of land within a three to five minute walk of the core kind of downtown area, uh, to locate that parking structure. So here are two that are larger ones already available in the downtown area. Um, and it's helpful to have kind of access from two different streets for traffic flow within that building and consider, you know, enhancing the pedestrian facilities around it because you will have a high number of visitors that are going to and from that lot. So this concludes the presentation. Um, happy to answer questions, but also understand if we need to kind of move on to the next piece, that's okay too. So we have seven minutes and another project. So my question to you, Cassie is, my guess is based on the slides, we have, we're going to have a lot of questions knowing this audience. Um, so I don't know how much time we can go over. I, I, I don't know how important it is to get the capital projects in, in seven minutes. You, you tell me, because my guess is that there's, there's way more questions for this and way more attention for this than we can possibly accommodate in like a minute. Yeah. So my suggestion is we can bring this item back for additional discussion because I really like to focus, be able to focus on the short term wins here and the short term implementation. So, um, we can bring it back at the next meeting and have additional discussion specifically about the parking study. Um, and then the capital projects, if you have feedback, I suggest we were not going to get to it today, but if you have feedback for that before we get to the budget discussions, I'd like to have that, you know, so you can always email that. I think we have some questions from Susie that we're happy to provide responses to in writing. Um, and then we can table the rest of the items for the next meeting. So you, you want to do the budget part? No, I'm saying, I'm saying we, this room is booked only until 12, so we don't have time today, but if you have any questions or feedback about the particular, um, projects that we've included in the backup, I'm happy to take those in writing via email. Okay. Uh, then staff will coordinate responses. So is it possible for y'all to send out what questions we asked and what the responses were to the whole? Yes, I will make sure the whole committee gets all of the responses. And before we're, we're, we're good for that. Cause that, that feels like it's sort of almost extra meeting and I don't know whether I want to stay with inside the rules. Yes. I think that would be a public facing document. It wouldn't be we can attach it to the next meeting. Okay. Or and the agenda backup, we would have to discuss this. It's not, the meeting is not happening outside of the meeting construct. That's the important part. And I'll get with Cassie to discuss. Okay. So that, that all sounds good. So I'm going to ask the counselors and commissioners, um, uh, review these materials for these final items, get your questions into staff. Staff will coordinate and send out a shared document that we can all see. And similar, I guess to the way we do council, um, uh, let's do that sooner rather than later, because some of these are time sensitive items. So in the next day or two, please. Uh, and then, um, is there, I would like to request that we bring these items back for discussion at the next meeting. Um, we were just really dense today for two hours. Yeah. We didn't have the July meeting. So we had a, a pretty heavy agenda today, but yes, we can bring those items back in September. Uh, September, let me look, Jasmine, do you have the date? September 25th. So I have a question for staff and my, my fellow board members. And that is, is there a desire for, or an opportunity for an additional special called meeting to relieve some of the pressure so that we don't have to cram everything into the September meeting so that we can have a more casual dialogue. Would that be beneficial or not beneficial for this meeting? Is that, is that right? This is, this is about twice to two and a half times more than we normally do. I'd, I'd prefer if, if it's, if it's possible, I'd prefer just to keep it on the regular schedule and, and work, work a little bit more in the, on the 25th than, than we normally would, than this committee normally would. And I don't know what the density of the September meeting was going to be, so I can't address that. I'll make sure we, we plan accordingly. Okay. Also 10 o'clock. Yes. Okay. So is the appropriate action to table these or just have new additional items on the future agenda? Do we, we continue these items or we just have new overlapping items on the future? They would, they would just be posted as items. We're just, you're navigating the meeting. We stopped two items short. Didn't pick them up. No action was taken. You could say that, but it'll be posted and you can take it up at the next agenda. We'll repost the items for the next agenda. Okay. That sounds good. Everybody comfortable with everything we just sort of worked out right now? I clearly see a question over there. Okay. All right. So in, in hearing is we're going to bring items E and F and G elements of those items any way back as future items on the September meeting. Um, and I have requested that we all get our questions in on these time sensitive E and F items. Um, and anything in G that might be time sensitive as soon as possible this week to staff and staff will coordinate a shared response to any questions that we might have. All right. So I'm, I, I'm going to move ahead to concluding items in the last minute because we are out of time. Any concluding items real quick. Okay. So with that, then I will, uh, uh, uh, end the meeting at 11 59.