WEBVTT

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 >> I do not have any blue cards in my possession, ma'am.

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 >> All right, we are going to call the meeting

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 to order of insert point commission.

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 It is a regular session meeting.

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 It is Monday, August the 12th, 2024.

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 I have the time at 5.31 p.m. If you will please join me

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 in the Pledge of Allegiance.

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 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

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 and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,

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 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Honor of the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee,

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 Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.

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 Thank you all.

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 >> All right, we do have a quorum present,

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 and so at this point we have a presentation

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 from members of the public.

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 Do we have anyone on mute to speak?

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 So no? Okay, no one to speak.

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 I'm moving on one.

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 All right, item three for consideration.

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 We have item 3A, number HLC 24-0035 on our agenda is

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 to consider approval of the July 8, 2024 minutes.

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 I hope you all had an opportunity to read those minutes.

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 Are there any corrections that you know of?

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 No corrections?

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 Do we have a motion to approve?

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 [ Inaudible ]

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 All right, all in favor of approving the minutes,

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 please raise your hand and say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> Any opposed, same song?

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 Thank you.

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 All right, moving on, item 3B, number HL 2-Core-0002

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 on our agenda is to hold a public meeting

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 and consider making a recommendation to the Planning

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 and Zoning Commission and the City Council regarding an

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 application for a historic landmark designation in

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 accordance with section 2.9.4 of the DIT and Development Code

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 for the property located at 1526 Willowwood Street.

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 The property is located on the north side of Willowwood Street

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 between Kendall Drive and McCormick Street.

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 So we will hear from Cameron.

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 >> Thank you, Chair.

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 So as stated, this is HL 2-Core-0002.

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 The property is 1526 Willowwood Street.

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 It is located on the north side of Willowwood Street

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 between Kendall Drive and McCormick Street.

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 The owners are Jennifer Lane and James Carr.

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 The construction date is circa 1978.

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 So before I move on, just wanted to share with you all.

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 So when it comes to a historic landmark designation,

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 the property does not have to be 50 years old.

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 So the property can be less than 50 years old

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 if it is worthy of designation.

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 So I just want to preface that before I move on.

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 So the building's history.

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 It was originally constructed for Mr. James J.

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 and Judith H. Bellman.

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 It is that contemporary style.

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 The architects were based out of Houston, Texas.

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 They are Anderson and Wilson architects.

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 The contractor was Neil J. Adams.

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 He was based in Denton, and there has been five owners

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 since 1978.

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 So today's request is for a historic landmark designation.

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 It is located in the Denia neighborhood.

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 It is zoned currently R3 zoning and has

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 been used as a single-family residence

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 since its construction.

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 And it is located on approximately 1.7 acres.

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 So these are just some current photos of the property today.

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 This is that front south facade, and then we

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 have the rear north facade here.

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 In addition, we have our east facade,

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 which does have that garage, and then the west facade.

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 These are just a survey and flat of the property,

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 and it's highlighted here and outlined in red.

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 So you can just get a better idea.

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 So staff analysis is currently based on or looking

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 at section 2.9.4(d) of the Denton development code.

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 Specifically for this property, it does meet criteria 1, 5,

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 and 11, and I'm going to run through each of those.

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 Any questions before I respond?

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 So approval criteria 1.

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 So during the late 20th century, we

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 started to see a live work movement happening here

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 in the US.

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 And one of the main cities that really took off

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 with this live work movement was Houston.

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 But for Houston, which was really interesting,

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 it kind of started in the 1950s.

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 And they kind of found that loophole in city planning,

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 because Houston is still due to this day.

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 So Houston architects really at this time

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 started experimenting with that live work lifestyle movement.

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 But it wasn't really until the 1970s

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 that that movement really took off.

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 And one of those pioneers, or the pioneers truly,

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 of that live work movement was Anderson Wilson architects.

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 They were really featured prominently in the Houston area,

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 both as designers and clients.

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 They built their own structures themselves

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 and lived and worked in them.

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 And 1526 Willowwood was constructed and designed

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 by Anderson Wilson architects.

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 They provided two artist studios, actually,

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 in the home itself.

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 They configured a photographer's darkroom, as well as

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 a pottery studio.

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 So it's really interesting in terms of that.

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 Any questions?

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 So moving on to approval criteria 5.

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 As previously stated, it was designed

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 in that contemporary style.

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 So the contemporary style really became popular

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 in the mid 20th century.

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 It did borrow some of that design

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 from the international style, which

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 was wood frame structures that allowed the home a little bit

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 more movement.

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 The structure itself is asymmetrical structure.

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 It is largely unornamented with a lot of stucco surfaces.

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 But it really does play a large emphasis

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 on light textures and openness.

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 So a lot of that detail in the structure is in the interior.

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 But that makes for a really interesting exterior.

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 So as stated, the focus for most contemporary style structures

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 is really on that interior of the residence.

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 It looks at the functionality of the indoor space,

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 as well as that integration of outdoor views

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 into the interior.

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 So the property that the developments actually

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 based their home off of was in Southern Living.

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 It was a home designed by Anderson and Wilson architects.

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 It was in Southern Living in 1972.

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 Judith Fillman thought she saw Southern Living magazine,

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 thought it was really interesting,

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 really liked the style, and asked

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 for it to be expanded upon.

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 So that's the home that we see there today.

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 It's based off Southern Living, a home that she saw.

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 But one of also the really main and very important striking

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 features of this home is that 20-foot high

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 by 60-foot wide enclosed front courtyard that we saw here.

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 So come back right here.

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 That's very unique to that contemporary style,

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 because that is the front door entrance to the home.

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 And today, it features a garden and box turtles.

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 The original blueprint design showed it having a pool.

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 Miss Fillman did not want a pool in the front.

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 So that's why you see that elevated walkway

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 bridge that goes over.

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 So there is a garden.

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 And there's still two box turtles

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 remaining today from the original 30.

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 Wow.

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 So moving on to approval criteria 11.

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 So as I've talked about, the original owners

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 were the Fillman family.

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 They contributed largely to the Jewish community

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 in Denton and Denton County.

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 They were one of the founders of the congregation

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 Nicole Ami, which is now based in Flower Mound.

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 But they operated for over 20 years in the city of Denton.

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 The fourth owner, Dr. Gilda Garcia, who is shown here,

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 she contributed heavily while she was in Denton to UNT.

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 She was the chief diversity officer and vice president

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 at the University of North Texas as well.

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 And then lastly, we have the fifth and current owners,

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 Jennifer Lane and Dr. James Carr, who have not only contributed

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 to UNT, but also nationally and internationally.

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 Jennifer currently teaches at the UNT College of Music.

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 But they are both recorded musicians and singers,

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 as well as Dr. James Carr is a teacher as well.

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 So they've both got lots of great, interesting history,

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 not only current history, but past history connected

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 to this property as well.

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 So stats analysis.

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 So as part of stats analysis, I also

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 was looking at the 2019 Historic Preservation Plan,

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 specifically that goal 1, policy 1.3,

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 which looks at prioritizing and designating eligible buildings

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 in areas for potential landmarks and historic districts,

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 as well as the Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan,

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 specifically goal CC2, which is preserve and maintain

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 the unique character of Denton for long-term sustainment.

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 So staff is recommending approval

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 of the request for the historic landmark

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 designation of the property located at 1526 Willowwood

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 Street.

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 As it does, it is consistent with our goals and objectives

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 of the Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan

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 and that 2019 Historic Preservation Plan,

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 as well as the sections outlined in 2.9.4B of the Denton

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 Development Code.

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 Thank you so much for any questions.

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 Yeah, Commissioner, is there any questions?

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 It's pure curiosity, but are the studios still

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 functioning as art studios, creative studios?

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 I can ask the applicants to come up and answer that question

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 if they would like.

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 Sure.

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 Can you come up here?

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 Yes, they are.

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 Their purpose has been changed a little bit

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 because the dark rooms aren't really used so much anymore.

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 The dark room is now used mostly for sustainable.

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 We have added solar panel array in the back.

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 So the dark room is used to measure that.

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 And then also the pottery studio is now used as a music studio,

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 but it's still completely intact exactly as it was.

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 My husband would be in love with those studios.

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 Those are his master's degrees in pottery and photography,

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 so he'd be in love there.

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 Funky, artsy, definitely love it.

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 I can think of love it.

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 Is the construction-- is that concrete, or is it stucco?

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 Not that it matters.

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 The exterior is stucco.

00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:53.020
 Stucco, yes.

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 Actually, it's stucco, but it is concrete.

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 It's concrete.

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 It's almost two inches thick, actually.

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 And from time to time, I've considered

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 repairing a couple of the areas that need repair.

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 And when the stucco people have come,

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 they've always just been dumbfounded by it,

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 by the quality of the work, and praised it.

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 And it's actually made us a little bit concerned

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 trying to find somebody who can measure up

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 to what was done by the Adams Company.

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 No other questions?

00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:37.020
 I don't have any other questions.

00:12:37.020 --> 00:12:37.740
 OK.

00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:40.220
 Thank you.

00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:45.220
 All right, so we are looking, based on the presentation,

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 for a motion.

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 And I think we can have a motion for approval,

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 a motion for a denial, or a motion for a combination.

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 I'll make a motion for approval based

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 on the staff recommendations, and it being fresh.

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 Funky.

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 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

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 And I want to thank her for the history that she got.

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 Because even though I lived over there all this time,

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 there were a lot of things that I didn't know.

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 Oh, it was so, so fun to reconnect with the Feldmans,

00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:15.940
 who now live in New Mexico, and to share information back

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 and forth, and to work with UNT Library

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 to find those old articles that are not digitized yet.

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 They had to be found in the magazines themselves.

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 And then when Judith sent us the photographs of the build,

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 that was just it.

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 And just for your knowledge, the blueprints

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 are in Emily Fowler Library.

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 We took them there last year.

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 And so they've been scanned, and they're available.

00:13:38.140 --> 00:13:39.980
 Thanks for that.

00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:42.460
 I just want to say, I'm glad that they had to be 50 years old.

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 Because when you said 1978, it started to hurt my heart.

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 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

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 This is not what I pictured when you said '78, though.

00:13:50.180 --> 00:13:52.100
 You know what I mean.

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 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

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 All right.

00:13:56.540 --> 00:14:00.380
 We have a motion for approval by Commissioner Treat,

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 and a second by Commissioner Adams.

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 All in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:04.340
 Aye.

00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:05.740
 All in favor, OK.

00:14:05.740 --> 00:14:06.900
 Unanimous approved.

00:14:06.900 --> 00:14:09.220
 Thank you guys very much.

00:14:09.220 --> 00:14:10.260
 Thank you very much.

00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:11.020
 Thanks, everybody.

00:14:11.020 --> 00:14:11.860
 Thank you.

00:14:11.860 --> 00:14:12.780
 Yeah, OK.

00:14:12.780 --> 00:14:15.300
 We are moving on to the next one.

00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:20.380
 Item 3C, number HL24-00003 on our agenda

00:14:20.380 --> 00:14:22.340
 is to hold a public meeting and consider

00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:25.340
 making a recommendation to the Planning and Zoning Commission

00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:27.780
 and the City Council regarding an application

00:14:27.780 --> 00:14:30.100
 for a historic land commission designation

00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:35.020
 in accordance with Section 2.9.4 of the DIT and Development

00:14:35.020 --> 00:14:39.620
 Code for the property located at 1900 Westridge Street.

00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:44.060
 The property is located on the north side of Westridge Street,

00:14:44.060 --> 00:14:46.540
 just east of Highland Park Road.

00:14:46.540 --> 00:14:50.380
 This is HL24-003.

00:14:50.380 --> 00:14:53.020
 Cameron, you have another one for us?

00:14:53.020 --> 00:14:54.020
 Yes, I do.

00:14:54.020 --> 00:14:55.700
 Exciting times, right?

00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:58.140
 [LAUGHTER]

00:14:58.140 --> 00:15:00.060
 So thank you, Chair.

00:15:00.060 --> 00:15:02.980
 As you stated, the property is at 1900 Westridge Street.

00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:04.620
 The owner is Mary Seetmore.

00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:08.260
 And the construction date is circa 1970.

00:15:08.260 --> 00:15:09.740
 So don't worry.

00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:12.260
 [LAUGHTER]

00:15:12.260 --> 00:15:16.380
 It was originally constructed for Horace R. and Yulene W.

00:15:16.380 --> 00:15:17.500
 Brock.

00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:20.020
 The architectural style is contemporary style.

00:15:20.020 --> 00:15:21.420
 Yes, it's a little bit different.

00:15:21.420 --> 00:15:24.900
 It's just a different kind of take on contemporary style.

00:15:24.900 --> 00:15:27.980
 The architects are Mount Miller architects.

00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:30.100
 The contractor was Burton Moore.

00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:35.500
 And there has been three owners since 1970.

00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:38.660
 So today's request, similar to our last request,

00:15:38.660 --> 00:15:41.180
 is for a historic landmark designation.

00:15:41.180 --> 00:15:44.060
 The property is located in the Demian neighborhood.

00:15:44.060 --> 00:15:46.300
 It is zoned R3.

00:15:46.300 --> 00:15:48.380
 It has been used for single family residents.

00:15:48.380 --> 00:15:51.820
 And it's located on approximately 0.68 acres.

00:15:54.660 --> 00:15:58.740
 So these are current photos of the property.

00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.740
 That front south-facing facade here,

00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.660
 facing Westridge, that east facade.

00:16:05.660 --> 00:16:08.660
 And then the rear, which shows the north and the west facades.

00:16:08.660 --> 00:16:16.980
 This is a survey of the property as it is currently.

00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:22.220
 So staff's analysis is based off section 2.9.4(b).

00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.540
 This property meets criteria 4 and 11,

00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:27.740
 which I'm going to dive a little bit more into.

00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:31.700
 Any questions as of right now?

00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:34.420
 So approval criteria 4.

00:16:34.420 --> 00:16:36.220
 As I previously stated, it was designed

00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:39.300
 by Mount Miller architects, also known as Tom P. Miller

00:16:39.300 --> 00:16:41.380
 and Isabelle Mount.

00:16:41.380 --> 00:16:43.300
 They had a lot of influence here in Denton.

00:16:43.300 --> 00:16:46.180
 They served on lots of boards and civic organizations,

00:16:46.180 --> 00:16:47.900
 as well as helped essentially build

00:16:47.900 --> 00:16:51.340
 some of that fabric of Denton during the second half

00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:53.100
 of the 20th century.

00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:57.060
 So over 45 years, when they moved here in 1953,

00:16:57.060 --> 00:17:00.700
 so starting in 1954 until 2000, they

00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:03.100
 are responsible for designing and remodeling

00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:05.460
 close to 300 residents.

00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:08.660
 Not only in Denton, but nearby towns as well.

00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:12.220
 Some Mount Miller examples that are still standing today

00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:14.860
 is the former Denton Fire Station number 4,

00:17:14.860 --> 00:17:17.580
 as well as that 531 North Elm Street.

00:17:17.580 --> 00:17:21.460
 That is just our neighbor, just right up the street here.

00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.420
 In addition to the Mount Miller architects,

00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:26.260
 it was constructed by Burt Moore.

00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:28.860
 He's also known as the Den Creek guy.

00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:31.700
 You'll see some of his houses throughout.

00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:34.340
 Yeah, made out of cement blocks.

00:17:34.340 --> 00:17:37.260
 That is most likely built by Burt Moore

00:17:37.260 --> 00:17:38.620
 with his Den Creek blocks.

00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:44.700
 Moving on to approval criteria 11.

00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:47.340
 Horace and Eileen Brock, they are the original owners,

00:17:47.340 --> 00:17:50.780
 as well as helped and worked with Mount Miller architects

00:17:50.780 --> 00:17:53.340
 to help design the property.

00:17:53.340 --> 00:17:55.700
 So obviously, they had a huge important role

00:17:55.700 --> 00:17:59.860
 in the social, economic, ethnic, and historical heritage

00:17:59.860 --> 00:18:02.140
 in the city of Denton and Texas.

00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:05.540
 They did serve on many boards and commissions,

00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:07.940
 including nonprofit organizations.

00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:12.740
 Eileen, as we know, served tenure as a city of Denton mayor.

00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:14.820
 She also helped found the Denton Christian Women's

00:18:14.820 --> 00:18:16.860
 Interracial Fellowship.

00:18:16.860 --> 00:18:19.700
 And then Horace, he had a long career

00:18:19.700 --> 00:18:22.020
 at University of North Texas.

00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:23.940
 He served as the department chair

00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.300
 within the business school, and then director

00:18:26.300 --> 00:18:28.300
 and chief executive roundtable.

00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:35.460
 So in addition to the approval criteria,

00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:38.100
 staff looked at the 2019 Historic Preservation Plan,

00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:41.660
 goal number one, policy 1.3, and then the Denton 2040

00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:46.100
 Comprehensive Plan, goal CC-2.

00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:48.500
 So staff is recommending approval of the request

00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:50.140
 for a historic landmark designation

00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:53.700
 of the property located at 1900 Westridge Street,

00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:56.220
 as it is consistent with our Denton 2040,

00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:58.900
 as well as our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan goals,

00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:04.220
 and does meet section 2.9.4B of the Denton development.

00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:05.540
 I stand for any questions.

00:19:05.540 --> 00:19:06.940
 Mr., do you have any questions?

00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:11.100
 Total nerd question.

00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:12.940
 So how do you-- what kind of things

00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:15.660
 help Din Creek stand out?

00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:18.580
 What kind of things do you like to spot it, or--

00:19:18.580 --> 00:19:23.500
 Oh, for instance, there's one on Houston Place.

00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:25.100
 Or there's two on Houston Place.

00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.900
 They're perfect, just cinder block squares.

00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.980
 And you can-- they're not covered at all.

00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:30.980
 They were exposed.

00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.860
 So it looks like a house just constructed of cinder block.

00:19:33.860 --> 00:19:34.500
 Right, right.

00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:35.020
 Yeah.

00:19:35.020 --> 00:19:39.820
 I believe that they look like normal cinder blocks you use,

00:19:39.820 --> 00:19:41.180
 but they were lighter weight.

00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:45.980
 So he developed his special formula to make them high

00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:48.860
 higher resistance, which I think is a natural property in CMUs,

00:19:48.860 --> 00:19:50.420
 but then lighter weight.

00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:52.580
 So that's what I know.

00:19:52.580 --> 00:19:55.740
 But, Visibly, I don't know that you can tell the difference.

00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:57.820
 But, you know--

00:19:57.820 --> 00:20:00.220
 And Isabelle especially liked working with him,

00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:01.820
 because she had trouble with--

00:20:01.820 --> 00:20:04.740
 or they, the Millers, had problems

00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:08.100
 with some of the actual builders in Denton,

00:20:08.100 --> 00:20:10.980
 because they would see something that they had designed

00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:15.060
 and think, I'll do it this way.

00:20:15.060 --> 00:20:17.580
 And Isabelle was the one who would go in and say,

00:20:17.580 --> 00:20:20.980
 tear it out, do it the way I drew it.

00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:21.460
 OK.

00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:22.180
 I love it.

00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:24.580
 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:20:24.580 --> 00:20:25.180
 OK.

00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:29.340
 We have the RFPs that the Mount Millers developed

00:20:29.340 --> 00:20:33.220
 when they sent it out to contractors for award,

00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:35.380
 and lots of type controls.

00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:38.380
 I mean, it was just fascinating to read through.

00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:41.100
 Not just typed up on the typewriter, you know.

00:20:41.100 --> 00:20:43.220
 No auto pad, nothing else.

00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:45.900
 So it was fascinating to do all the research.

00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:49.220
 I think people just assumed that builders

00:20:49.220 --> 00:20:53.860
 do what's on the paper, but they didn't always.

00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:56.380
 If they saw a simpler way to do what they thought

00:20:56.380 --> 00:20:59.540
 was just as good, they would tell me to do it again.

00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:03.300
 Isabelle wrote her on them very well.

00:21:03.300 --> 00:21:06.580
 She was in there, got on her hands and knees,

00:21:06.580 --> 00:21:08.340
 and looked at things and--

00:21:08.340 --> 00:21:10.260
 Suffered no fools, as they say.

00:21:10.260 --> 00:21:12.740
 Yes.

00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:16.700
 So with that said, I'll move approval of this application.

00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:18.380
 And I will second.

00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:21.580
 Thank you very much.

00:21:21.580 --> 00:21:24.420
 Commissioner Adams and Commissioner Treat.

00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:25.620
 All right.

00:21:25.620 --> 00:21:27.260
 Any other discussion?

00:21:27.260 --> 00:21:27.740
 All right.

00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:28.660
 We're ready for a vote.

00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:32.500
 All in favor of approving the historic designation

00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:35.260
 for 1900 Westridge Street, please raise your hand

00:21:35.260 --> 00:21:35.940
 and say aye.

00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:36.460
 Aye.

00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:37.100
 Anyone opposed?

00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:38.220
 Unanimous again.

00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:38.900
 Thank you, guys.

00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:43.660
 Thank you for helping preserve some of the history.

00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:44.140
 Yes.

00:21:44.140 --> 00:21:46.060
 A round of applause for the vote on this.

00:21:46.060 --> 00:21:48.020
 [APPLAUSE]

00:21:48.020 --> 00:21:49.100
 Appreciate that.

00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:51.700
 It always tickles me when somebody starts digging in,

00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:56.500
 and they're like, oh my god, this place has stories.

00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:59.620
 I've walked by that house for 20 plus years

00:21:59.620 --> 00:22:00.940
 and wanted to buy it.

00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:03.820
 [LAUGHTER]

00:22:03.820 --> 00:22:06.260
 With the help of a lot of people.

00:22:06.260 --> 00:22:08.500
 Well, thank you both for your due diligence

00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:14.580
 in coming on board of the historic designations.

00:22:14.580 --> 00:22:16.220
 All right, we have a work session now.

00:22:16.220 --> 00:22:20.500
 Item 4A, number HLC 24-034.

00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:22.580
 Our agenda is to receive a report

00:22:22.580 --> 00:22:26.700
 and hold a discussion regarding the conceptual plan shown

00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.700
 in the design downtown didn't plan for Quaker Town Park

00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:35.420
 and implications for the O'Neill Ford Civic Complex History

00:22:35.420 --> 00:22:36.700
 Landmark designation.

00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:46.780
 Which I will say, I had no idea that the Civic Center did not

00:22:46.780 --> 00:22:50.500
 already have that designation.

00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:51.020
 Wait, what?

00:22:51.020 --> 00:22:51.500
 What?

00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:52.660
 Is that what this is?

00:22:52.660 --> 00:22:53.780
 That it didn't?

00:22:53.780 --> 00:22:55.340
 It's the property, right?

00:22:55.340 --> 00:22:56.300
 It's designated?

00:22:56.300 --> 00:22:57.180
 Is that it?

00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:58.380
 Yeah.

00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:01.340
 Maybe I should wait for the presentation.

00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:02.620
 I'm like, wait, hold on.

00:23:02.620 --> 00:23:05.020
 [LAUGHTER]

00:23:05.020 --> 00:23:06.220
 OK, sorry.

00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:08.260
 I just had a full panic moment and got it.

00:23:08.260 --> 00:23:11.260
 [LAUGHTER]

00:23:11.260 --> 00:23:12.260
 Hold on, wait.

00:23:12.260 --> 00:23:13.940
 OK, it's not going to--

00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:15.420
 OK, perfect.

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.100
 OK, hi, everyone.

00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:23.500
 OK, so I'm just going to give just a quick background

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:28.620
 overview of the design downtown didn't plan.

00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:31.220
 And then we're going to jump in and focus primarily

00:23:31.220 --> 00:23:36.420
 on that Quaker Town discussion and that O'Neill Ford designation.

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.220
 So just to provide you all a background,

00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:43.060
 this started in June 2023.

00:23:43.060 --> 00:23:45.580
 It didn't really launch until July 2023,

00:23:45.580 --> 00:23:49.620
 but it's been made up of four different phases.

00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:52.380
 The first phase was that Understand phase,

00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:56.300
 the next phase being Envision, phase three being Act,

00:23:56.300 --> 00:23:58.780
 and then the current phase, which we're in right now,

00:23:58.780 --> 00:24:00.380
 is Adopt.

00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:07.180
 So this is the general outline boundary of the area plan.

00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:08.980
 These are not hard boundaries, but when

00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:12.780
 it comes to a planning document, you

00:24:12.780 --> 00:24:17.820
 do need to have those boundaries just so that we kind of know

00:24:17.820 --> 00:24:19.540
 what area we're working at with.

00:24:19.540 --> 00:24:22.580
 But just want to preface before we move forward

00:24:22.580 --> 00:24:25.140
 that these are things that are being proposed

00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:28.580
 as part of this plan are going to be beneficial to all

00:24:28.580 --> 00:24:33.780
 surrounding neighborhoods in the larger Dunn community.

00:24:33.780 --> 00:24:36.300
 So public engagement review.

00:24:36.300 --> 00:24:39.020
 We have lots of public engagement.

00:24:39.020 --> 00:24:42.380
 Most of it launched in September of 2023.

00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:44.620
 Lots of pop-ups, workshops.

00:24:44.620 --> 00:24:47.820
 I'm sure-- I feel like I saw a good majority of y'all

00:24:47.820 --> 00:24:49.660
 at those workshops.

00:24:49.660 --> 00:24:52.060
 So the Downtown Visioning Workshop, Quaker Town sessions,

00:24:52.060 --> 00:24:53.940
 Feedback Finale.

00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:57.260
 But you can see from those overall online engagements,

00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:58.780
 plus the ones that are in person,

00:24:58.780 --> 00:25:02.540
 we've had a lot of engagement for this plan.

00:25:02.540 --> 00:25:07.300
 Just wanted to show you all the vision statement.

00:25:07.300 --> 00:25:09.900
 This was approved by the advisory group

00:25:09.900 --> 00:25:12.140
 that is working on the Design Downtown Denton plan,

00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:17.300
 as well as Council Planning and Zoning and Parks Board.

00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:19.220
 So it is-- Design Downtown Denton

00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:23.060
 is to be a more walkable, beautiful, and fun destination.

00:25:23.060 --> 00:25:25.340
 And one of the things that y'all can focus on

00:25:25.340 --> 00:25:29.180
 is preserve and expand the distinctive local businesses,

00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:30.980
 foster that strong sense of community,

00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:33.620
 and safeguard the historic and artistic character

00:25:33.620 --> 00:25:37.860
 while promoting growth and development.

00:25:37.860 --> 00:25:41.780
 So as part of that public engagement,

00:25:41.780 --> 00:25:46.100
 we came-- our staff and working with Mend Collaborative, who

00:25:46.100 --> 00:25:48.580
 is the consultant, and getting feedback

00:25:48.580 --> 00:25:51.300
 from the community and the different boards

00:25:51.300 --> 00:25:52.580
 and commissions.

00:25:52.580 --> 00:25:55.620
 We came up with five, eight community priorities,

00:25:55.620 --> 00:25:57.220
 which are focused here.

00:25:57.220 --> 00:26:00.260
 And as we kind of go towards Quaker Town Park,

00:26:00.260 --> 00:26:02.140
 and I just highlight briefly some

00:26:02.140 --> 00:26:04.500
 of the historic preservation strategies

00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.420
 that you all will be integral to,

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:10.980
 these community priorities are being

00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:13.860
 highlighted as part of those different actions

00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:15.140
 and recommendation steps.

00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:20.380
 So these are the overall recommendations.

00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:24.660
 I've highlighted-- or I've outlined in white the ones

00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:26.700
 where you all, as a commission, will

00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:30.060
 be very integral, which is 3C, which

00:26:30.060 --> 00:26:33.100
 is Strengthen Historic Preservation Opportunities.

00:26:33.100 --> 00:26:34.660
 And that is to target development

00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:36.700
 to build on downtown's character and assets.

00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:40.540
 So that's kind of looking at promotion of tax credits,

00:26:40.540 --> 00:26:43.140
 creation of conservation districts,

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:46.340
 youth shed protection studies for the courthouse

00:26:46.340 --> 00:26:47.740
 or Morson's Milling.

00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:52.420
 So those different types of different action steps.

00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:55.100
 But also, it would be looking at recommendation

00:26:55.100 --> 00:26:58.220
 for F, which is Established Downtown Brand.

00:26:58.220 --> 00:27:01.300
 That sounds kind of like, whew, what does that mean?

00:27:01.300 --> 00:27:03.740
 But that's really looking at wayfinding.

00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:07.220
 So one of the things that's being proposed

00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.140
 is historic signage and historic pathways.

00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:12.340
 And what do those look like?

00:27:12.340 --> 00:27:15.860
 So that's where you all will be very needed

00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:20.260
 and be an integral part of that.

00:27:20.260 --> 00:27:25.300
 So jumping in to build a network and improve public spaces

00:27:25.300 --> 00:27:30.260
 and jumping into the Quaker Town Park master plan.

00:27:30.260 --> 00:27:34.140
 That's kind of what I wanted you all to focus and have

00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:37.020
 this discussion with you all this evening,

00:27:37.020 --> 00:27:39.540
 is the Quaker Town Park.

00:27:39.540 --> 00:27:43.580
 And right now, the property is a Disney landmark.

00:27:43.580 --> 00:27:47.300
 So the property as a whole, is the O'Neill Ford City Complex.

00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:50.460
 It was designated in 2017.

00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:53.820
 And as part of that designation, it includes the structures,

00:27:53.820 --> 00:27:58.420
 it includes the waterways, it includes the landscaping,

00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:01.180
 it includes all those different key pieces

00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:03.460
 to O'Neill Ford's design.

00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:06.340
 But as we have heard from the public,

00:28:06.340 --> 00:28:07.620
 through the public engagement,

00:28:07.620 --> 00:28:10.340
 and as we're trying to bring this park up

00:28:10.340 --> 00:28:13.780
 to the 21st century, essentially.

00:28:13.780 --> 00:28:21.500
 You know, we have tried to see how we can preserve the past,

00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:25.380
 or how best to preserve and to acknowledge the past,

00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:31.060
 especially the story of Quaker Town and that displacement.

00:28:31.060 --> 00:28:35.540
 But also still recognize the past of O'Neill Ford

00:28:35.540 --> 00:28:39.060
 and his importance also in Texas and his architectural

00:28:39.060 --> 00:28:42.460
 movements, but also how does this park move into the future.

00:28:42.460 --> 00:28:45.700
 So it's really a balancing act between three different things.

00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:48.340
 Quaker Town and telling that story for the first,

00:28:48.340 --> 00:28:51.220
 truly for the first time in the park, O'Neill Ford,

00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:54.740
 and then what does it look like in the future.

00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:58.580
 But as stated, the park itself is designated.

00:28:58.580 --> 00:29:00.580
 So what does that mean?

00:29:00.580 --> 00:29:03.340
 You all as a body, any time there's

00:29:03.340 --> 00:29:06.420
 something that's coming in for the park,

00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:10.300
 you all have jurisdiction over what happens.

00:29:10.300 --> 00:29:13.780
 As part of the plan, one of the things

00:29:13.780 --> 00:29:18.140
 that is being proposed as a potential action step

00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:22.540
 is to amend that designation.

00:29:22.540 --> 00:29:26.980
 And what I mean by that is to essentially--

00:29:26.980 --> 00:29:29.620
 I'm going to read it out of my AIS

00:29:29.620 --> 00:29:31.860
 to make sure I do it clearly, because it

00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:33.780
 is a little complicated.

00:29:33.780 --> 00:29:36.100
 But the plan is proposing to revise and clarify

00:29:36.100 --> 00:29:38.980
 the local landmark designation of Quaker Town Park

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:43.660
 to limit it to the O'Neill Ford design structures and landscape

00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:45.860
 features that remain intact.

00:29:45.860 --> 00:29:47.980
 So a lot has changed in the park.

00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:50.020
 The pool has had a lot of maintenance updates

00:29:50.020 --> 00:29:51.820
 over the years.

00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:56.620
 The senior center is not an original O'Neill Ford design.

00:29:56.620 --> 00:29:59.860
 It was not part of the original O'Neill Ford complex.

00:29:59.860 --> 00:30:02.460
 So part of the features that would

00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:05.700
 remain intact as part of this new conceptual plan

00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:10.100
 for the park will be city hall and the courtyard.

00:30:10.100 --> 00:30:14.980
 So city hall right here in that courtyard.

00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:18.220
 The civic center right here.

00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:22.500
 The sunbathing hillside right here

00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:25.220
 next to the civic center pool.

00:30:25.220 --> 00:30:28.660
 Emily Feiler Library, and then the general shape

00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.340
 of the creek beds themselves.

00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:34.420
 So I would like for us to have a discussion

00:30:34.420 --> 00:30:40.620
 kind of how to see, you know, answer any questions

00:30:40.620 --> 00:30:43.660
 or concerns that you all may have.

00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:48.140
 And then with this recommendation taking place.

00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:53.380
 So, can I start you?

00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:53.980
 Questions.

00:30:53.980 --> 00:30:56.620
 So what's the context of this change?

00:30:56.620 --> 00:31:00.260
 What were some of the reasons given for making this change?

00:31:00.260 --> 00:31:02.180
 Because if I'm understanding it, what this is

00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:06.700
 is drawing back our kind of input into this

00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:08.860
 to only be O'Neill Ford structures.

00:31:08.860 --> 00:31:10.100
 Am I hearing that correctly?

00:31:10.100 --> 00:31:10.580
 Yes.

00:31:10.580 --> 00:31:13.460
 So O'Neill, those landscaping pieces that remain.

00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:16.420
 So it would be the creek beds and the hillside

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:19.700
 that come in Big Bend hillside that's currently there today.

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:22.020
 And then, yes, those O'Neill Ford structures

00:31:22.020 --> 00:31:25.580
 that are in place.

00:31:25.580 --> 00:31:30.500
 Does that exclude then the sculpture that's down there?

00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:34.260
 It was also done by Tom and Isabel.

00:31:34.260 --> 00:31:38.460
 So are you asking, would it preserve that?

00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:39.540
 Yes.

00:31:39.540 --> 00:31:41.660
 It would not preserve that, no.

00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:44.220
 So it would be up to parks decision

00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:45.820
 if they wanted to preserve that.

00:31:45.820 --> 00:31:49.220
 So because it's the O'Neill Ford civic complex,

00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:51.140
 it's specifically looking at preserving

00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:55.660
 what O'Neill Ford had his, I guess, hands in,

00:31:55.660 --> 00:31:58.620
 would be a way to say it, or designed.

00:31:58.620 --> 00:32:00.420
 You did mention the women's club.

00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:02.660
 Is that not going to be part of that, or is that--

00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:05.940
 Den Women's Club is designated as its own landmark,

00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:07.340
 separate from Quaker Town Park.

00:32:07.340 --> 00:32:10.020
 So it does have, technically, two layers of protection

00:32:10.020 --> 00:32:10.980
 right now.

00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:13.380
 It's within the designation itself.

00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:17.220
 But it also has its own individual destination.

00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:21.100
 So currently, we provided a copy of the ordinance to you all.

00:32:21.100 --> 00:32:22.300
 It is very broad.

00:32:22.300 --> 00:32:24.620
 It doesn't provide much specifics.

00:32:24.620 --> 00:32:28.620
 It just states that the park as a whole is designated.

00:32:28.620 --> 00:32:32.380
 But it doesn't call out the specifics of what

00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:36.620
 needs to be the jurisdiction of HLC or staff.

00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:40.060
 It's just preserving the property as a whole.

00:32:40.060 --> 00:32:44.500
 But right now, and currently as a Quaker Town Park

00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:47.060
 in remembrance, we just have a sign

00:32:47.060 --> 00:32:50.980
 that remembers Quaker Town, the community, and then

00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:52.820
 the signs that were implemented last year

00:32:52.820 --> 00:32:54.780
 as part of this attorney.

00:32:54.780 --> 00:32:58.140
 Mr. Tree, did you get your question answered?

00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:01.860
 Yes, you did have a separate part of your question, sorry.

00:33:01.860 --> 00:33:04.220
 The context-- what's the impetus here?

00:33:04.220 --> 00:33:07.220
 Is this going to input control within the hands of parks

00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:12.460
 in solely of making decisions about the grounds, the trees,

00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:16.460
 the other property in the park and around the park?

00:33:16.460 --> 00:33:18.460
 Yes.

00:33:18.460 --> 00:33:22.300
 So to preface, once again, this is the Quaker Town

00:33:22.300 --> 00:33:24.580
 Park master plan.

00:33:24.580 --> 00:33:28.220
 So this is a conceptual design that

00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:31.860
 got thousands of people's input, essentially.

00:33:31.860 --> 00:33:33.740
 It got parks department's input of what

00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.340
 they felt that they were capable of handling.

00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:38.420
 It got online input.

00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:45.340
 It got input from the parks board at different meetings.

00:33:45.340 --> 00:33:53.980
 So yes, it would give that control to the parks department

00:33:53.980 --> 00:33:57.700
 with amending the designation.

00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:59.300
 Go ahead.

00:33:59.300 --> 00:34:01.340
 Commissioner Scherfling, if I could add something.

00:34:01.340 --> 00:34:03.460
 So Tina Fargan, Deputy Director of Development Services

00:34:03.460 --> 00:34:04.580
 and Planning Director.

00:34:04.580 --> 00:34:06.900
 So right now, as Kim pointed out,

00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:08.620
 this is the conceptual master plan

00:34:08.620 --> 00:34:13.180
 that's being proposed as part of the downtown plan update.

00:34:13.180 --> 00:34:16.020
 One of the things that we know that we will need to do

00:34:16.020 --> 00:34:17.740
 in the future is to come back and work

00:34:17.740 --> 00:34:20.660
 with the Historic Landmark Commission regarding

00:34:20.660 --> 00:34:23.660
 any amendments that may need to be made to the designation

00:34:23.660 --> 00:34:24.460
 ordinance.

00:34:24.460 --> 00:34:25.940
 Because of the designation ordinance

00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:29.020
 being as broad as it was at that time,

00:34:29.020 --> 00:34:31.660
 that we see value in working with the Historic Landmark

00:34:31.660 --> 00:34:34.060
 Commission in how we might go about in amending

00:34:34.060 --> 00:34:35.940
 that designation in the future and being

00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:40.300
 able to address some of the finer details of the questions

00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:41.980
 that you may have right now.

00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:44.380
 We wanted to be able to share this plan with you

00:34:44.380 --> 00:34:46.900
 so that you can see what's being recommended as part

00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:49.660
 of the designed downtown debt and plan.

00:34:49.660 --> 00:34:51.740
 But knowing that there are subsequent steps

00:34:51.740 --> 00:34:54.180
 that we have to take with the Historic Landmark Commission

00:34:54.180 --> 00:34:56.140
 because of the designation that exists today.

00:34:56.140 --> 00:34:59.060
 So I think the whole purpose of the conversation today

00:34:59.060 --> 00:35:02.020
 was just to introduce this plan to you all so you can see.

00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:04.380
 So that if anyone asks you, hey, did you

00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.420
 realize there's a plan in there for Quaker Town Park

00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:09.620
 that you're familiar with what's being recommended

00:35:09.620 --> 00:35:10.700
 for improvements with that.

00:35:10.700 --> 00:35:14.220
 But know that we will need to come back at a later date

00:35:14.220 --> 00:35:17.060
 as a separate action item to be able to address

00:35:17.060 --> 00:35:19.060
 the designation.

00:35:19.060 --> 00:35:21.860
 At that time, I would anticipate that we

00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:24.500
 would have a much finer conversation

00:35:24.500 --> 00:35:29.260
 as to what aspects the Historic Landmark Commission would

00:35:29.260 --> 00:35:33.020
 be reviewing as it relates to any modifications to the park.

00:35:33.020 --> 00:35:36.540
 Obviously, the structures that exist on the property today,

00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:38.940
 I would anticipate that you'll have a role in that,

00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:40.260
 just like you do today.

00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:44.060
 But better defining as to where your actions are

00:35:44.060 --> 00:35:45.620
 going to be, items that would need

00:35:45.620 --> 00:35:47.980
 to come to the Historic Landmark Commission versus maybe

00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:50.300
 items that are delegated to the Historic Preservation

00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:52.180
 Officer for approval.

00:35:52.180 --> 00:35:54.060
 The Parks Department still has the ability

00:35:54.060 --> 00:35:57.300
 to be able to need to utilize that open space.

00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:59.940
 So it's how do we utilize that open space?

00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:02.580
 And then to Cameron's point, still preserving

00:36:02.580 --> 00:36:05.340
 the events of 100 years ago and acknowledging that aspect,

00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:08.420
 but then also the O'Neill Ford buildings.

00:36:08.420 --> 00:36:10.620
 So hopefully that offers a little bit of additional

00:36:10.620 --> 00:36:14.180
 explanation to possibly address some of your concerns.

00:36:14.180 --> 00:36:17.020
 We're not looking at peeling back the commission's role

00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:19.460
 at this time as it relates to the park.

00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:21.100
 It would be very much an integral part

00:36:21.100 --> 00:36:22.900
 of that conversation at such point in time

00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:24.700
 when we need to address the designation that

00:36:24.700 --> 00:36:26.420
 exists on the property.

00:36:26.420 --> 00:36:28.380
 Thank you for that clarification.

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:30.580
 I don't know whether that makes you feel better.

00:36:30.580 --> 00:36:33.980
 No, I'm thinking probably like you are.

00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:36.020
 I don't understand, honestly.

00:36:36.020 --> 00:36:41.020
 My question is, why would we want to basically give that up

00:36:41.020 --> 00:36:47.460
 when they could still can have a development plan.

00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:52.220
 It still can proceed with things they want to bring it up

00:36:52.220 --> 00:36:55.020
 to 21st century, those types of things.

00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:58.500
 I just really, we just said on another slide,

00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:01.300
 it's about to preserve the downtown plan.

00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:05.140
 And to me, if we give that up, we're kind of pushed back

00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:07.540
 saying we're not preserving anymore.

00:37:07.540 --> 00:37:12.540
 So I, just off the bat, and I think I'd have to know more,

00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:16.660
 I wouldn't be forgiving enough, but that's just my thought.

00:37:16.660 --> 00:37:20.460
 - And we anticipated that.

00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:24.660
 So that's why one of the things that Cameron

00:37:24.660 --> 00:37:27.220
 and I were talking about is that we will definitely

00:37:27.220 --> 00:37:28.860
 need to come and have that conversation

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:31.260
 with the Historic Landmark Commission to understand

00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:33.980
 what are those items where we feel like the commission

00:37:33.980 --> 00:37:37.940
 does need to have an essential role in on what improvements

00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:39.620
 exist on the park site today.

00:37:39.620 --> 00:37:41.380
 Like I said, I would anticipate that you all

00:37:41.380 --> 00:37:43.660
 would still be heavily involved with respect

00:37:43.660 --> 00:37:46.060
 to the existing structures that are out there

00:37:46.060 --> 00:37:49.020
 with some of the key aspects of the past

00:37:49.020 --> 00:37:53.620
 with that we noted in the, like the waterways,

00:37:53.620 --> 00:37:56.540
 the sunbathing hillside, those aspects,

00:37:56.540 --> 00:37:59.500
 because there are gonna be certain items associated

00:37:59.500 --> 00:38:02.420
 with the park that have significant linkages to the past

00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:04.860
 that the commission may feel much more strongly about

00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:08.820
 of having involvement and what happens to those items

00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:12.780
 versus maybe some items where there may be some flexibility

00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:14.940
 that's granted to the Historic Preservation Officer

00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:17.540
 for approval of a COA, or there may be some items

00:38:17.540 --> 00:38:20.260
 that you define that maybe do not have

00:38:20.260 --> 00:38:23.500
 a historic significance where there's no review needed.

00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:25.620
 But we don't have those answers today yet.

00:38:25.620 --> 00:38:28.740
 We would need to come back and have a much more thorough,

00:38:28.740 --> 00:38:31.900
 detailed conversation with the commission based upon,

00:38:31.900 --> 00:38:33.180
 in working with Parks Department.

00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:35.500
 These are the items that we feel still need to remain

00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:36.780
 in your purview.

00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:38.900
 These are items that we should consider delegating

00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:41.180
 to the Historic Preservation Officer.

00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:43.580
 Here's some items that we feel like may not need

00:38:43.580 --> 00:38:46.100
 to have a COA addressed within at all,

00:38:46.100 --> 00:38:49.020
 but being able to have that conversation

00:38:49.020 --> 00:38:51.580
 with the commission where you are providing that direction

00:38:51.580 --> 00:38:54.340
 to us as we work on that designation amendment.

00:38:54.340 --> 00:38:57.820
 - I just don't see that different

00:38:57.820 --> 00:38:59.460
 as what's already in the ordinance

00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:02.980
 and why we would need to amend it for those reasons.

00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:06.540
 That's, I just feel like Quaker Town history,

00:39:06.540 --> 00:39:09.940
 that whole area, the history behind it is huge.

00:39:09.940 --> 00:39:13.620
 - So I need to ask a further clarified question

00:39:13.620 --> 00:39:14.740
 if you don't mind, follow up.

00:39:14.740 --> 00:39:19.740
 So by taking the initiative to directly declare

00:39:19.740 --> 00:39:25.220
 these buildings as under our purview,

00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:27.060
 is that somehow strengthening any protections

00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:29.220
 on those particular buildings?

00:39:29.220 --> 00:39:31.300
 - Well, I think that's already been done, has it not?

00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:33.180
 - Yes, that's already been done.

00:39:33.180 --> 00:39:34.940
 - Yeah, that's already been done.

00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:38.500
 - But that strengthens protections for those structures.

00:39:38.500 --> 00:39:40.700
 - Correct. - Correct, okay.

00:39:40.700 --> 00:39:43.620
 However, the park grounds themselves,

00:39:43.620 --> 00:39:46.540
 those would then fall outside of our purview

00:39:46.540 --> 00:39:49.620
 and therefore they could be subject

00:39:49.620 --> 00:39:52.740
 to whatever type of modification might be deemed okay

00:39:52.740 --> 00:39:55.020
 by the city or by the parks.

00:39:55.020 --> 00:39:57.420
 - By Parks Department, but that would also,

00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:59.900
 as Tina was stating, that would have to be a larger

00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:02.340
 discussion that we have that you all have

00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:05.140
 as a commission stating, hey, we are willing,

00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:06.700
 you know, I'm just gonna give an example.

00:40:06.700 --> 00:40:09.740
 Where we need to, we wanna protect all the O'Neill

00:40:09.740 --> 00:40:12.900
 forward structures, the creek, the embankment,

00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:16.060
 but we also feel like this has a really integral history

00:40:16.060 --> 00:40:18.580
 so we actually wanna preserve everything south of that.

00:40:18.580 --> 00:40:21.180
 But then parks can have the park land north.

00:40:21.180 --> 00:40:24.340
 So it's, the designation currently as is,

00:40:24.340 --> 00:40:28.860
 is just very broad, it encompasses the entire park.

00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:31.420
 So as part of that planning process,

00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:36.420
 with the amount of different structures or event spaces

00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:39.420
 that people are looking for as part of the public,

00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:45.740
 there is so much, it would have to go through the historic,

00:40:45.740 --> 00:40:49.140
 even if it has nothing, even if it's putting a stage up,

00:40:49.140 --> 00:40:49.980
 it would have to go through

00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:51.740
 the Historic Landmark Commission.

00:40:51.740 --> 00:40:56.140
 And so, but how does that tie to history if it's temporary?

00:40:56.140 --> 00:40:59.100
 - What happens if they fuck up the roots to our trees?

00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:01.860
 So here's where I'm going.

00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:04.020
 Okay, so since it's open for discussion,

00:41:04.020 --> 00:41:04.860
 I'll just discuss. - Right, yeah, yeah.

00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:07.740
 - I mean, let me do a little Jasper thing here.

00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:11.140
 There's some very good historic reasons

00:41:11.140 --> 00:41:15.260
 that there should be skepticism of this falling entirely

00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:18.460
 under the city's purview and their discretion.

00:41:18.460 --> 00:41:20.140
 Because as far as I'm concerned,

00:41:20.140 --> 00:41:23.740
 this property is sacred land,

00:41:23.740 --> 00:41:28.740
 and we got it by not so great means, okay?

00:41:28.740 --> 00:41:31.900
 And the reason was the people that were there

00:41:31.900 --> 00:41:34.380
 didn't have a say, they couldn't vote.

00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:37.420
 And it was happening with or without it

00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:39.180
 in every way, shape, or form.

00:41:39.180 --> 00:41:43.400
 So what I'm pointing out is that I feel like,

00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:48.580
 rather, I'm feeling like these restrictions to pull back

00:41:48.580 --> 00:41:52.780
 are a relinquishment of our possibility

00:41:52.780 --> 00:41:55.460
 of also being a check and a balance

00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:59.780
 against possibly some decisions that might be motivated by,

00:41:59.780 --> 00:42:02.700
 oh, I don't know, let's say commercial appeal,

00:42:02.700 --> 00:42:05.500
 or what happens if someone comes into this park,

00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:06.700
 and I'm not even kidding.

00:42:06.700 --> 00:42:09.420
 They set up a stage where they use equipment,

00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:12.160
 and what it does is it causes damage to root systems

00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:14.440
 of old trees in the park.

00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:19.780
 No one may not be thinking about that ahead of time.

00:42:19.780 --> 00:42:21.540
 I feel like the Historic Landmark Commission,

00:42:21.540 --> 00:42:24.180
 yes, we don't wanna get drowned down in minutiae.

00:42:24.180 --> 00:42:26.380
 Like every time they wanna put up a bandstand,

00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:30.180
 we're getting, you know, I can understand the logic there.

00:42:30.180 --> 00:42:33.540
 But the historic significance here is something

00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:37.080
 that I feel needs to be aggressively protected.

00:42:37.080 --> 00:42:41.500
 And I feel like that's one of the reasons

00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:45.120
 that whenever it was placed in this purview

00:42:45.120 --> 00:42:50.120
 under this commission was with that as designed.

00:42:50.120 --> 00:42:59.260
 So my concern would be that these are great discussions

00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:06.740
 to have on the front end because the potential for misuse

00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:13.180
 or potential abuse without that extra set of eyes

00:43:13.620 --> 00:43:16.900
 or extra set of concerns, that would be something

00:43:16.900 --> 00:43:18.740
 that I would find highly problematic.

00:43:18.740 --> 00:43:22.180
 - Does this not include the senior center?

00:43:22.180 --> 00:43:24.260
 - Correct.

00:43:24.260 --> 00:43:29.620
 - So that would not be part of the purview

00:43:29.620 --> 00:43:31.300
 that you're saying you would want us

00:43:31.300 --> 00:43:33.340
 to give that back to the city?

00:43:33.340 --> 00:43:37.820
 - So this is just, once again, this is conceptual design.

00:43:37.820 --> 00:43:40.380
 Senior center was never designed by O'Neill Ford.

00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:42.540
 It was designed to look like O'Neill Ford.

00:43:42.540 --> 00:43:43.700
 It's not 50 years old.

00:43:43.700 --> 00:43:45.980
 And from what we've been informed,

00:43:45.980 --> 00:43:48.740
 it has a lot of maintenance.

00:43:48.740 --> 00:43:53.140
 The pool itself has been redone about four different times.

00:43:53.140 --> 00:43:55.860
 None of it's really original at this point.

00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.140
 And it does not get enough use.

00:43:58.140 --> 00:44:00.820
 So those are why you don't see those two conceptual

00:44:00.820 --> 00:44:04.740
 or two things as part of the conceptual plan.

00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:06.460
 I do wanna preface in your backup.

00:44:06.460 --> 00:44:09.220
 It does, I provided the entire chapter

00:44:09.220 --> 00:44:11.520
 regarding the Quaker Town Park Master Plan.

00:44:11.520 --> 00:44:13.180
 Before any work can happen,

00:44:13.180 --> 00:44:15.840
 an archeological survey does have to take place.

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.700
 Just wanted to let you all know.

00:44:17.700 --> 00:44:19.880
 So for this entire park,

00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:23.840
 an archeological survey would take place.

00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:27.540
 Any artifacts that were found would be preserved.

00:44:27.540 --> 00:44:29.820
 And so there would have to be steps taken

00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:32.540
 before anything could even happen.

00:44:32.540 --> 00:44:37.540
 But as Tina has stated, before even that portion,

00:44:37.540 --> 00:44:40.820
 we'd have to have, as a commission,

00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:43.540
 a staff is talking and have a work session

00:44:43.540 --> 00:44:45.740
 as well as hearing regarding that ordinance

00:44:45.740 --> 00:44:48.460
 and what that looks like if it were to be amended at all,

00:44:48.460 --> 00:44:50.740
 if it weren't to be amended at all.

00:44:50.740 --> 00:44:55.740
 But at least if we would not be to work through that,

00:44:55.740 --> 00:44:59.700
 just as staff, definitely at least providing some clarity

00:44:59.700 --> 00:45:02.540
 in the designation of what is included,

00:45:02.540 --> 00:45:06.180
 even if it's stated landscaping, buildings, all of the above.

00:45:06.180 --> 00:45:08.180
 - Mr. McAllen, do you have a question?

00:45:08.180 --> 00:45:12.100
 - Well, I'm gonna go back to the sculpture that's down there

00:45:12.100 --> 00:45:14.220
 because I think it's obvious,

00:45:14.220 --> 00:45:18.780
 if that came before the park board,

00:45:18.780 --> 00:45:22.660
 nobody on there has the history to know what that is,

00:45:22.660 --> 00:45:24.780
 that they could just immediately say,

00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:28.820
 gosh, move this out, clear this piece of junk.

00:45:28.820 --> 00:45:33.820
 But because Mount Miller has such a history in Denton,

00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:36.260
 there are so many of those structures.

00:45:36.260 --> 00:45:41.260
 And that's the only piece of park structure

00:45:41.260 --> 00:45:46.380
 that I'm aware of that they developed.

00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:51.380
 And it's odd looking, but kids absolutely love it.

00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:55.020
 And I think it deserves to be protected.

00:45:55.020 --> 00:45:58.500
 So I don't want the parks board to have the authority

00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:01.100
 to move that out of there without it.

00:46:01.100 --> 00:46:03.460
 - Speaking of the concrete things there,

00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:04.700
 the senior center, yeah.

00:46:05.660 --> 00:46:08.900
 - So I have just half of that hole here.

00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:11.300
 So if that was something that we did say,

00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:13.300
 okay, we're gonna do that, oh, no side.

00:46:13.300 --> 00:46:17.820
 Now, it is possible parks could come in

00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:20.600
 and say, we're gonna tear down the civic center,

00:46:20.600 --> 00:46:22.340
 we're gonna tear out the pool,

00:46:22.340 --> 00:46:24.340
 and we're gonna do something different.

00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:26.780
 - They would have to come to you all.

00:46:26.780 --> 00:46:29.500
 The buildings would still be protected.

00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:31.820
 - But they do not include the senior center there.

00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:33.900
 - Because it is not O'Neill Ford.

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:34.740
 - That's right.

00:46:34.740 --> 00:46:35.560
 - Right, right.

00:46:35.560 --> 00:46:36.400
 - So this doesn't mean.

00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:38.700
 - I just wanna say hypothetical here.

00:46:38.700 --> 00:46:45.020
 I don't know, I just think the whole property there

00:46:45.020 --> 00:46:46.980
 is historic, every bit of it.

00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:50.940
 I think it was made that way for a reason.

00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:54.300
 And I would, I'm not saying that,

00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:56.620
 I would like to see you come to us and say,

00:46:56.620 --> 00:46:57.940
 hey, here's kind of what we're thinking,

00:46:57.940 --> 00:46:59.220
 we'd like to do this and this.

00:46:59.220 --> 00:47:02.260
 We haven't come in and said, no, you can't do that.

00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:04.820
 So I just kind of, I don't know,

00:47:04.820 --> 00:47:08.640
 it would be hard for me to be in favor to give it up.

00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:10.020
 - And that's what I'm anticipating,

00:47:10.020 --> 00:47:12.160
 is that we would come and have that conversation

00:47:12.160 --> 00:47:13.500
 with the Historic Landmark Commission and say,

00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:16.380
 hey, everything that we've evaluated on this site,

00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:19.220
 we think either A, it all needs to be included,

00:47:19.220 --> 00:47:22.660
 or B, we think that all of the property,

00:47:22.660 --> 00:47:25.580
 except for this piece over here, should be included.

00:47:25.580 --> 00:47:26.900
 Do you agree, disagree?

00:47:26.900 --> 00:47:28.140
 But having that conversation

00:47:28.140 --> 00:47:29.340
 with the Historic Landmark Commission,

00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:32.780
 so you all would be an active part of that conversation.

00:47:32.780 --> 00:47:34.820
 So, because, to Kevin's point,

00:47:34.820 --> 00:47:36.540
 I know we need to do the archeological survey,

00:47:36.540 --> 00:47:39.300
 but the other aspect also comes into play,

00:47:39.300 --> 00:47:42.540
 is funding has to be set aside for this plan

00:47:42.540 --> 00:47:44.480
 to be implemented to also understand

00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.580
 what the next steps are that we want to take.

00:47:46.580 --> 00:47:48.460
 But again, the Historic Landmark Commission

00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:50.820
 would be an integral part of that conversation

00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:54.940
 to be able to see, okay, is there anything

00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:57.340
 that would be re-linguished?

00:47:57.340 --> 00:48:00.980
 If not, then no, we're keeping all of the property,

00:48:00.980 --> 00:48:03.580
 and especially if there's any modifications

00:48:03.580 --> 00:48:04.860
 that are being made to these areas,

00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:06.940
 definitely having a COA that comes before

00:48:06.940 --> 00:48:08.780
 the Historic Landmark Commission.

00:48:08.780 --> 00:48:10.540
 It could be the items that are already delegated

00:48:10.540 --> 00:48:13.780
 to the Historic Preservation Officer continue to remain.

00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:15.660
 It could be that there are some responsibilities

00:48:15.660 --> 00:48:17.380
 that are allocated to the HBO

00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:20.380
 that we feel still need to be better assigned

00:48:20.380 --> 00:48:23.060
 to the Historic Landmark Commission to be able to address.

00:48:23.060 --> 00:48:26.420
 So again, it's having that conversation with all of you

00:48:26.420 --> 00:48:27.260
 when that time comes.

00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:29.860
 We just wanted to put this plan before you

00:48:29.860 --> 00:48:31.500
 so that you are not surprised by it

00:48:31.500 --> 00:48:35.260
 and so that you're informed, but also know that later on,

00:48:35.260 --> 00:48:37.540
 if we come to you and are having that conversation,

00:48:37.540 --> 00:48:39.260
 because we've identified certain things

00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:42.380
 that we want your feedback on, so that you're aware of that.

00:48:42.380 --> 00:48:45.260
 - Commissioner Timberman, do you have any insight,

00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:46.100
 any thoughts?

00:48:46.100 --> 00:48:50.820
 - I mean, I'm looking at, I don't know if it's,

00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:53.220
 I think it's the same thing, but it's got the,

00:48:53.220 --> 00:48:54.580
 I mean, I have some thoughts.

00:48:54.580 --> 00:48:57.620
 I don't know if it really falls under our,

00:48:57.620 --> 00:48:59.260
 just seeing some of the things that are proposed

00:48:59.260 --> 00:49:02.180
 put in there, but I mean, I'm in agreement with everybody.

00:49:02.180 --> 00:49:04.140
 I mean, this is a huge change to,

00:49:04.140 --> 00:49:09.540
 this is like, I'm pretty much in agreement with everybody,

00:49:09.540 --> 00:49:12.340
 but there's some, like I'm looking at cafes and things.

00:49:12.340 --> 00:49:13.420
 I don't know if talking about that

00:49:13.420 --> 00:49:15.820
 is something that falls under our,

00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:18.540
 but I thought it's just as a citizen of Denver

00:49:18.540 --> 00:49:19.700
 about those things, but.

00:49:19.700 --> 00:49:26.260
 - Commissioner McDonough, anything else from you?

00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:29.660
 - I don't know if they're gonna take, if there's any possibility

00:49:29.660 --> 00:49:31.940
 they're gonna take that away, but I might say so.

00:49:31.940 --> 00:49:32.780
 (laughing)

00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:34.620
 - I'm against it.

00:49:34.620 --> 00:49:35.940
 - Thank you, Commissioner Gregory.

00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:39.700
 - Yeah, I'm, you know, just a question about essentially

00:49:39.700 --> 00:49:42.780
 the implications of what this change would be,

00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:45.820
 so if it were to happen, so, right,

00:49:45.820 --> 00:49:48.500
 we talked about sort of like the important buildings,

00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:50.660
 but also like the view to them,

00:49:50.660 --> 00:49:51.860
 and when I look at this, right,

00:49:51.860 --> 00:49:54.540
 I'm seeing literally like from McKinney,

00:49:54.540 --> 00:49:57.900
 all view of those two O'Neill Ford buildings

00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:01.580
 probably aren't, isn't visible anymore,

00:50:01.580 --> 00:50:04.380
 and so I'm just thinking about maybe just saying out loud

00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:09.380
 that that would be an implication of this commission not,

00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:12.500
 right, if the whole property isn't protected,

00:50:12.500 --> 00:50:17.300
 then there's not, if I'm understanding correctly, right,

00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:20.100
 then we can't have a say so if those buildings

00:50:20.100 --> 00:50:24.820
 get visually covered by new structures that I'm thinking

00:50:24.820 --> 00:50:25.660
 would not.

00:50:25.660 --> 00:50:32.220
 - Okay, Commissioner Tree, anything else to add?

00:50:32.220 --> 00:50:33.220
 - I reckon.

00:50:33.220 --> 00:50:37.180
 Once you seal the pay, you can't name it, though.

00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:38.020
 - Well.

00:50:38.020 --> 00:50:40.780
 (laughing)

00:50:40.780 --> 00:50:44.420
 - That is, we give it, we, in principle,

00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:47.460
 relinquish a modicum of control,

00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:51.860
 then we're basically depending upon the accounts

00:50:51.860 --> 00:50:54.140
 of strangers in conversations,

00:50:54.140 --> 00:50:56.220
 rather than being involved at the gate,

00:50:56.220 --> 00:50:59.260
 so that's a long struggle to make.

00:50:59.260 --> 00:51:00.860
 - I agree with the commission here,

00:51:00.860 --> 00:51:05.620
 and I think relinquishing that is big.

00:51:05.620 --> 00:51:09.380
 I think our, the whole reason we are on this commission

00:51:09.380 --> 00:51:11.420
 is to preserve and protect,

00:51:11.420 --> 00:51:14.620
 and I think to relinquish it is giving that up,

00:51:14.620 --> 00:51:17.300
 but I don't think we're hard to get along with.

00:51:17.300 --> 00:51:19.140
 I feel like if they, if there was something

00:51:19.140 --> 00:51:22.380
 they wanted to do and they brought it to us,

00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:25.060
 I think we're open to a lot of proposals,

00:51:25.060 --> 00:51:26.980
 so I don't think by saying, hey,

00:51:26.980 --> 00:51:30.820
 we don't wanna relinquish, we're not in for, you know,

00:51:30.820 --> 00:51:33.460
 bringing things up to 21st century, those types of things.

00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:36.820
 I don't think that's out of the purview,

00:51:36.820 --> 00:51:39.300
 but I just feel like relinquishing

00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:41.940
 is just totally opposite of what this court is for.

00:51:45.100 --> 00:51:48.300
 - Okay, are we ready to move on, do we have anything else?

00:51:48.300 --> 00:51:50.740
 All right, you guys ready to move on?

00:51:50.740 --> 00:51:53.660
 - Not until I'm all over KQ.

00:51:53.660 --> 00:51:56.540
 (all laughing)

00:51:56.540 --> 00:51:57.900
 - I'm right there with you.

00:51:57.900 --> 00:52:00.420
 (all laughing)

00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:05.420
 - Okay, item 4B, number 8L C24-032

00:52:05.420 --> 00:52:07.940
 on our agendas to receive a report,

00:52:07.940 --> 00:52:10.540
 hold a discussion, and give staff direction

00:52:10.540 --> 00:52:12.860
 on the Historic Landmark Commission's request

00:52:12.860 --> 00:52:14.940
 for local and historic designation

00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:17.020
 and eligible historic properties.

00:52:17.020 --> 00:52:22.220
 Does anyone have one that I need to bring?

00:52:22.220 --> 00:52:24.260
 - Any word from Prosthes people yet, Matt?

00:52:24.260 --> 00:52:27.300
 - No, nothing from Prosthes, nothing from Prosthes.

00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:32.300
 - Okay, can I just ask, if anybody knows,

00:52:32.300 --> 00:52:37.500
 I've been told that south of the New Eagle,

00:52:41.300 --> 00:52:46.300
 whatever, development, it's south of, in the Denia neighborhood,

00:52:46.300 --> 00:52:49.860
 far south, and kind of southwest,

00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:52.780
 that there is a large acreage

00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:57.540
 with an almost falling down huge house

00:52:57.540 --> 00:53:03.740
 that was apparently an architecturally

00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:06.220
 specially designed house that somebody owned

00:53:06.220 --> 00:53:07.860
 and it's still there.

00:53:07.860 --> 00:53:10.980
 I was told that it was falling down

00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:14.300
 and that a couple of cows had, at some point,

00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:15.980
 walked in it and died.

00:53:15.980 --> 00:53:22.060
 - Do you know a chance for a street?

00:53:22.060 --> 00:53:26.460
 'Cause I'm not sure, sorry.

00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:27.300
 - Can you pull up a map?

00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:28.740
 - Can I say the cow part?

00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:30.420
 Sorry, I sort by cows.

00:53:30.420 --> 00:53:31.260
 - Maybe pull up a--

00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:32.580
 - Yeah, I'll turn it up a little bit.

00:53:32.580 --> 00:53:34.780
 - We'll see if we can approximate it then.

00:53:34.780 --> 00:53:38.940
 - Are you concerned about designation of the structure

00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.780
 or the cows?

00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:41.660
 (laughing)

00:53:41.660 --> 00:53:44.740
 - We can do an archeological survey of the cows.

00:53:44.740 --> 00:53:45.580
 - Preservation of the cows?

00:53:45.580 --> 00:53:48.300
 - Yeah, let's do a preservation of the cows.

00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:50.420
 - I wonder if, I've never seen it.

00:53:50.420 --> 00:53:55.420
 It's apparently not available to the public to go in.

00:53:55.420 --> 00:53:58.420
 Somebody, I guess out of town or somewhere,

00:53:58.420 --> 00:53:59.660
 owns the property.

00:53:59.660 --> 00:54:02.780
 - And it's south of Rosalong?

00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:05.180
 Do you know?

00:54:05.180 --> 00:54:08.820
 'Cause there's this property.

00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:11.620
 - I don't know that it's that far.

00:54:11.620 --> 00:54:14.740
 There's a big house on it.

00:54:14.740 --> 00:54:19.740
 I was told it must be at least 6,000 square feet.

00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:24.500
 And it looked like, from the pictures that I was shown,

00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:29.500
 it looked like it might be, oh yeah, okay.

00:54:29.500 --> 00:54:32.500
 - I'm just, I'm just, I'm sorry.

00:54:32.500 --> 00:54:33.900
 - I don't really know where to go.

00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:36.180
 (laughing)

00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:39.860
 - I can zoom in and just go like, slow.

00:54:39.860 --> 00:54:42.420
 - It's south of Little Wood, I know.

00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:43.260
 - Okay.

00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:47.020
 Well this is, I think this is the development

00:54:47.020 --> 00:54:48.500
 you're speaking of, correct?

00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:51.100
 Okay.

00:54:51.100 --> 00:54:54.700
 So, there's Little Wood.

00:54:54.700 --> 00:55:00.700
 Oh, but it's south of this development, sorry, right?

00:55:00.700 --> 00:55:01.540
 - Yeah.

00:55:07.140 --> 00:55:07.980
 - Me.

00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:08.820
 - I think it's me.

00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:10.900
 - I was gonna say, I know Leanne's property's very old.

00:55:10.900 --> 00:55:14.860
 - It's, it's, it's, oh it's not hers.

00:55:14.860 --> 00:55:15.700
 - Okay.

00:55:15.700 --> 00:55:18.980
 - It's, it's on the, it's west of 35.

00:55:18.980 --> 00:55:19.820
 - Okay.

00:55:19.820 --> 00:55:24.020
 - 35 west or 35 east?

00:55:24.020 --> 00:55:25.340
 - West of 30.

00:55:25.340 --> 00:55:26.180
 - Five east.

00:55:26.180 --> 00:55:28.140
 - No, no, east of 35 W.

00:55:28.140 --> 00:55:31.580
 And west of 35 E.

00:55:31.580 --> 00:55:33.820
 (laughing)

00:55:33.820 --> 00:55:37.180
 (overlapping chatter)

00:55:37.180 --> 00:55:38.460
 - So we're in between.

00:55:38.460 --> 00:55:39.300
 - Mm-hmm.

00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:40.140
 - The in-between.

00:55:40.140 --> 00:55:40.980
 - Okay.

00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:47.820
 - There's a small lake on it, I think.

00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:48.820
 - A small lake?

00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:49.660
 - That helps.

00:55:49.660 --> 00:55:51.820
 - That's the only one I know with a small lake.

00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:54.540
 - Pond.

00:55:54.540 --> 00:55:55.380
 - Lake.

00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:56.200
 - Pond.

00:55:56.200 --> 00:55:57.040
 - Pond.

00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.880
 - It's pretty large.

00:55:57.880 --> 00:55:58.700
 - Pond.

00:55:58.700 --> 00:55:59.540
 - Yeah, it's a very large pond.

00:55:59.540 --> 00:56:00.380
 - Yes.

00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:02.500
 - These?

00:56:02.500 --> 00:56:03.340
 - These are--

00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:06.500
 (overlapping chatter)

00:56:06.500 --> 00:56:11.860
 - These look very new.

00:56:11.860 --> 00:56:16.260
 That's a pond.

00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:19.700
 - Wait, if you went back to where that tank was,

00:56:19.700 --> 00:56:20.540
 the lake--

00:56:20.540 --> 00:56:23.500
 - Oh, oh, sorry, sorry, this way.

00:56:23.500 --> 00:56:24.820
 - That structure right there beside it.

00:56:24.820 --> 00:56:26.180
 - That's one.

00:56:26.180 --> 00:56:27.020
 - I can't--

00:56:27.020 --> 00:56:30.340
 (overlapping chatter)

00:56:32.780 --> 00:56:34.300
 - What is that?

00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:37.940
 - It's a structure that I can't see.

00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:39.740
 It looks like it has a flat roof there,

00:56:39.740 --> 00:56:41.780
 so it looks probably mid-century model.

00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:45.980
 - It's skylighting.

00:56:45.980 --> 00:56:48.340
 - Can you see out through it, and you look closer?

00:56:48.340 --> 00:56:50.580
 (laughing)

00:56:50.580 --> 00:56:53.140
 - Maybe, lady, if you want to do some more

00:56:53.140 --> 00:56:55.740
 of our work and research, maybe you can go down for us

00:56:55.740 --> 00:56:57.620
 and send Cameron an email.

00:56:57.620 --> 00:56:58.460
 - Yeah.

00:56:58.460 --> 00:56:59.280
 - We can do some further.

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:00.460
 - I'd say I'm happy to look.

00:57:00.460 --> 00:57:02.020
 If you can give me a general--

00:57:02.020 --> 00:57:03.140
 - Where is that?

00:57:03.140 --> 00:57:06.980
 - This is West, or yeah, West of Bonnie Brea--

00:57:06.980 --> 00:57:08.220
 - Brown Brothers Trail.

00:57:08.220 --> 00:57:11.780
 - Brown Brothers Trail, other than Bonnie Brea.

00:57:11.780 --> 00:57:14.580
 West of Bonnie Brea.

00:57:14.580 --> 00:57:16.820
 It's close to 35 West.

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:18.540
 - You can't tell if it's a two-story or not,

00:57:18.540 --> 00:57:19.740
 so it could be.

00:57:19.740 --> 00:57:20.580
 - Maybe.

00:57:20.580 --> 00:57:21.700
 - Yeah, it might be.

00:57:21.700 --> 00:57:23.820
 There's something here.

00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:26.580
 - No, that doesn't look like it.

00:57:26.580 --> 00:57:31.340
 - Okay, well, it is east of 35 West.

00:57:31.340 --> 00:57:36.340
 - That looks more like it, 'cause I've been told it

00:57:36.340 --> 00:57:38.260
 in that direction.

00:57:38.260 --> 00:57:39.100
 Okay.

00:57:39.100 --> 00:57:40.380
 (gasping)

00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:41.820
 - Sorry, I've been over here.

00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:43.620
 I've got my mic over here, 'cause that's the bin

00:57:43.620 --> 00:57:45.100
 that goes around Bonnie Brea.

00:57:45.100 --> 00:57:50.300
 - But it's not something that you can just see.

00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:51.740
 You have to get past a--

00:57:51.740 --> 00:57:53.100
 - Right, it's fenced off here.

00:57:53.100 --> 00:57:57.100
 - You have to get past a fence to get in and see it.

00:57:57.100 --> 00:57:58.620
 - It's got a big, it's not even a fence,

00:57:58.620 --> 00:57:59.820
 it's a big metal gate.

00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.160
 - Okay, well.

00:58:01.160 --> 00:58:02.620
 - I can do more research.

00:58:02.620 --> 00:58:04.140
 If we think this is the property,

00:58:04.140 --> 00:58:05.760
 I'm happy to look into it.

00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:06.600
 - Okay.

00:58:06.600 --> 00:58:10.040
 4101, Brown Brothers Trout.

00:58:10.040 --> 00:58:10.880
 - Okay.

00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:17.560
 - I hope that's not the bloody Brown Brothers.

00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:20.340
 - Okay, I'm happy to look that up.

00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:23.300
 - I didn't know it had, the picture that I showed,

00:58:23.300 --> 00:58:27.500
 it had a great big room and a huge free-standing

00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:29.380
 front place in the middle.

00:58:30.500 --> 00:58:32.060
 What's that property?

00:58:32.060 --> 00:58:33.420
 - I think we're thinking of the same one,

00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:36.460
 but I didn't, I was thinking like some haunted mansion,

00:58:36.460 --> 00:58:38.300
 because you said cows died in it, so.

00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:41.540
 I think that's the property.

00:58:41.540 --> 00:58:44.620
 I think we're thinking it has like an inset living room,

00:58:44.620 --> 00:58:46.260
 like you step down into the living room,

00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:47.820
 and then there's a fire pit in the middle.

00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:48.660
 - Yes.

00:58:48.660 --> 00:58:50.540
 - I think that's that property.

00:58:50.540 --> 00:58:52.420
 It's like a mid-century modern home.

00:58:52.420 --> 00:58:55.460
 - Well, is there any possibility

00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:57.460
 that we might find out who owns it?

00:58:57.460 --> 00:59:00.180
 - I would say I'll look into it.

00:59:00.180 --> 00:59:01.020
 - Oh, look into it.

00:59:01.020 --> 00:59:01.860
 - Bye.

00:59:01.860 --> 00:59:02.700
 - Bye.

00:59:02.700 --> 00:59:03.900
 - Bye.

00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:05.280
 - Thanks for coming in.

00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.120
 - Thank you.

00:59:06.120 --> 00:59:10.420
 - All right, anything else on eligible historic properties?

00:59:10.420 --> 00:59:16.140
 All right, we're gonna move on to item four C,

00:59:16.140 --> 00:59:19.980
 number HSC 24-033.

00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:21.100
 We're gonna hold the discussion

00:59:21.100 --> 00:59:23.220
 regarding the Historic Landmark Commission's

00:59:23.220 --> 00:59:25.060
 project matrix.

00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:25.900
 - Yes.

00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:27.980
 - Yes.

00:59:27.980 --> 00:59:29.060
 - Matrix.

00:59:29.060 --> 00:59:34.060
 - Okay, so the template and agenda,

00:59:34.060 --> 00:59:35.980
 still working on that.

00:59:35.980 --> 00:59:38.460
 So that's gonna be presented in the early fall.

00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:40.740
 As you probably all realize,

00:59:40.740 --> 00:59:43.440
 the historic tax exemption discussion did not,

00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:47.300
 continuation did not happen today,

00:59:47.300 --> 00:59:50.540
 but we are gonna continue that on September 9th.

00:59:50.540 --> 00:59:53.540
 Staff is currently speaking, thanks to Lacey.

00:59:53.540 --> 00:59:56.780
 She set up a bunch of different meetings with cities,

00:59:56.780 --> 00:59:59.140
 HPOs, so I've been having meetings

00:59:59.140 --> 01:00:01.780
 with different city representatives

01:00:01.780 --> 01:00:06.100
 to talk through their different tax exemptions,

01:00:06.100 --> 01:00:08.800
 some of the challenges, some of the successes,

01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:11.300
 what they're looking to do, if anything, in the future.

01:00:11.300 --> 01:00:13.960
 So I have had those meetings,

01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.000
 and I believe we have two more of those coming up.

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:23.500
 And then focus group regarding historic property owners,

01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.660
 shock about historic preservation procedure incentives,

01:00:26.660 --> 01:00:28.900
 still scheduled for early fall.

01:00:28.900 --> 01:00:31.940
 And then presentation preliminary guidelines,

01:00:31.940 --> 01:00:33.460
 that's on hold.

01:00:33.460 --> 01:00:36.780
 And then general topic training relevant,

01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:38.980
 the duties and interests, that's a monthly occurrence,

01:00:38.980 --> 01:00:40.260
 but it's been kind of on hold

01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:43.460
 with the tax exemptions as of right now.

01:00:43.460 --> 01:00:46.180
 But that's it, is there anything

01:00:46.180 --> 01:00:48.580
 that you all would like to add?

01:00:48.580 --> 01:00:49.420
 Or?

01:00:54.700 --> 01:00:55.540
 - No.

01:00:55.540 --> 01:00:56.380
 - Okay.

01:00:56.380 --> 01:01:02.660
 - All right, does anyone have any other business to discuss?

01:01:02.660 --> 01:01:03.540
 Yes?

01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:04.380
 Cameron.

01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.120
 (laughing)

01:01:06.120 --> 01:01:06.960
 - I'm the last.

01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:08.780
 - I'm the last.

01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:11.900
 So I did want to make an announcement

01:01:11.900 --> 01:01:15.900
 that our sweet Lacey is leaving us.

01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:19.380
 So this is her last meeting

01:01:19.380 --> 01:01:22.060
 with the Historic Landmark Commission.

01:01:22.060 --> 01:01:25.140
 (indistinct chatter)

01:01:25.140 --> 01:01:25.980
 - I'm not going to be a dispatcher,

01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:26.820
 I'm not going to be.

01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:29.820
 (indistinct chatter)

01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:32.340
 Tina's looking at me like she did not know this information.

01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:35.380
 Sorry, I thought you knew, I'm so sorry.

01:01:35.380 --> 01:01:36.900
 This is my last meeting.

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:38.700
 I'm leaving at the end of the month

01:01:38.700 --> 01:01:42.140
 to go be a dispatcher for the city of Edmonds.

01:01:42.140 --> 01:01:43.500
 - Oh, you don't want to do that.

01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:45.760
 (laughing)

01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:47.460
 - You always do that, Lacey, it's okay.

01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:48.820
 - Y'all are blessed.

01:01:48.820 --> 01:01:51.900
 I have loved, I've been here almost two years with y'all.

01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:52.860
 I love it.

01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:54.580
 I've loved every minute of it,

01:01:54.580 --> 01:01:57.100
 but this is a career I've really been looking forward to

01:01:57.100 --> 01:01:58.540
 for a long time.

01:01:58.540 --> 01:01:59.420
 I'm very excited.

01:01:59.420 --> 01:02:01.960
 It's been a long application process,

01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:06.700
 but I heard on Wednesday that I passed everything

01:02:06.700 --> 01:02:09.460
 and I am moving forward, so.

01:02:09.460 --> 01:02:11.460
 - That's okay, so I'm going to take my calls first,

01:02:11.460 --> 01:02:12.300
 when I call you.

01:02:12.300 --> 01:02:13.540
 (laughing)

01:02:13.540 --> 01:02:14.720
 - Congratulations.

01:02:14.720 --> 01:02:15.560
 - Thank you.

01:02:15.560 --> 01:02:17.820
 (indistinct chatter)

01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:18.740
 - Thank you.

01:02:18.740 --> 01:02:21.820
 - Ms. Kathy is going to be taking over my spot,

01:02:21.820 --> 01:02:24.820
 so you will get the quorum emails,

01:02:24.820 --> 01:02:26.340
 the background materials, stuff like that.

01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:27.940
 It'll all go through Kathy.

01:02:27.940 --> 01:02:29.700
 If you ever got an email from me,

01:02:29.700 --> 01:02:30.660
 it will not be her.

01:02:30.660 --> 01:02:32.940
 - But Kathy, you've been with the city for a long time.

01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:33.780
 - Yes.

01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:37.380
 I worked at CSOP and I do planning and zoning commission.

01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:39.180
 Did have a HLC for a while.

01:02:39.180 --> 01:02:40.580
 - That's what I was thinking, yeah.

01:02:40.580 --> 01:02:41.420
 - Yes.

01:02:41.420 --> 01:02:44.220
 - Oh, welcome.

01:02:44.220 --> 01:02:45.060
 You get to be our new favorite now.

01:02:45.060 --> 01:02:46.100
 - Oh, thank you.

01:02:46.100 --> 01:02:49.060
 (laughing)

01:02:49.060 --> 01:02:50.180
 - I'm not even gone.

01:02:50.180 --> 01:02:52.060
 (laughing)

01:02:52.060 --> 01:02:53.340
 - I'm still here.

01:02:53.340 --> 01:02:54.340
 - Okay.

01:02:54.340 --> 01:02:56.020
 And then one more announcement.

01:02:56.020 --> 01:02:56.860
 Sorry.

01:02:56.860 --> 01:02:57.700
 (laughing)

01:02:57.700 --> 01:03:02.180
 No, and then in regards to the design downtown dent and plan,

01:03:02.180 --> 01:03:05.820
 the public hearing for that is this Wednesday

01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:07.580
 for planning and zoning commission.

01:03:07.580 --> 01:03:11.020
 That starts at 6.30 p.m. at the city council chambers,

01:03:11.020 --> 01:03:15.880
 and then September 17th for city council public hearing.

01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.300
 And that is at city council chambers starting at 6.30 as well.

01:03:19.300 --> 01:03:21.780
 - Where can we find the full plan?

01:03:21.780 --> 01:03:25.140
 - Discussdenton.com or the engagement website

01:03:25.140 --> 01:03:25.980
 if you're familiar with it.

01:03:25.980 --> 01:03:27.940
 But if you're going to Discuss Denton,

01:03:27.940 --> 01:03:31.260
 go to the design downtown dent and plan.

01:03:31.260 --> 01:03:34.940
 It's the first post and I put a smiley face next to it.

01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:38.340
 I believe we're at, wow, like a explosion.

01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:39.980
 - I can't remember which one I picked.

01:03:39.980 --> 01:03:41.740
 - Okay, you said this Thursday at what time?

01:03:41.740 --> 01:03:42.660
 - Oh, this Wednesday.

01:03:42.660 --> 01:03:43.620
 - Wednesday.

01:03:43.620 --> 01:03:46.340
 - At 6.30 at council chambers.

01:03:48.380 --> 01:03:50.020
 For planning and zoning.

01:03:50.020 --> 01:03:50.860
 - Plan C.

01:03:50.860 --> 01:03:51.700
 - Yes.

01:03:51.700 --> 01:03:52.520
 - Public hearing.

01:03:52.520 --> 01:03:53.360
 - Yes.

01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:58.240
 And then city council's at September 17th.

01:03:58.240 --> 01:04:01.580
 We did a smiley face and then it's okay.

01:04:01.580 --> 01:04:02.500
 - Oh, I did both?

01:04:02.500 --> 01:04:03.340
 Okay.

01:04:03.340 --> 01:04:05.860
 - This is my little face and explosion on Discussdenton.

01:04:05.860 --> 01:04:08.440
 - There we go, there we go.

01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:09.280
 Okay.

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:11.740
 There we go.

01:04:11.740 --> 01:04:17.840
 All right, any other business to discuss?

01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:23.060
 All right, then I will be thus adjourned at 6.35 p.m.

01:04:23.060 --> 01:04:26.100
 - I command that.

01:04:26.100 --> 01:04:27.100
 - Can you share some stuff?

01:04:27.100 --> 01:04:28.300
 Please go eat food.

01:04:28.300 --> 01:04:31.300
 (people chattering)