WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.200 Good morning, everyone. 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.900 We are here for the Mobility Committee. 00:00:08.900 --> 00:00:13.500 After determining that a quorum is present, the Mobility Committee of the City of Denton, 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:20.020 Texas, is convening in a regular meeting on Wednesday, June 26th, 10 a.m., in our council 00:00:20.020 --> 00:00:23.620 work session room. 00:00:23.620 --> 00:00:27.660 First thing on the agenda is the citizens' comments on agenda items. 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:30.180 Have we had any citizens' comments? 00:00:30.180 --> 00:00:31.180 No. 00:00:31.180 --> 00:00:40.080 So we're going to move on to item two, items for individual consideration, AMC 24-016, 00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:43.500 consider approval of the minutes of May 29th, 2024. 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:48.200 Is there any -- we need a motion for approval. 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.360 Anybody want a motion for approval? 00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:52.360 Okay. 00:00:52.360 --> 00:00:54.360 I move approval. 00:00:54.360 --> 00:00:56.360 I'll second. 00:00:56.360 --> 00:00:57.360 Okay. 00:00:57.360 --> 00:00:58.360 I move and second. 00:00:58.360 --> 00:01:03.440 Can we get approval, yes or no? 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:04.440 Aye. 00:01:04.440 --> 00:01:05.440 Aye. 00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:06.440 Can we get an aye? 00:01:06.440 --> 00:01:09.360 Sorry, had a little brain situation there. 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:15.160 So it's been moved and approved for the minutes of May 29th, 2024. 00:01:15.160 --> 00:01:22.040 BEMC 24-017, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the City of Denton transportation 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:27.760 mobility project status report. 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:33.920 Good morning, everybody. 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:43.200 John Poster, Innovative Transportation Solutions. 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:48.000 Start right in with I-35 North. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:54.600 The 076 project is a project closest to us, I mean, 074. 00:01:54.600 --> 00:02:00.520 And it's got a ready-to-let date of May 25th, but our dollar amount for that section, which 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:05.000 is half a billion dollars, is in the following fiscal year. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:09.240 So currently, it's got a let date of July 2026. 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.280 We're working on the unified transportation plan. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.720 If they happen to be able to move up half a billion dollars, we will, but probably not. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:23.040 So that's the main part of the project, it's fully funded. 00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:30.600 We're still at the budget that we anticipate, and this will allow us to get the next section 00:02:30.600 --> 00:02:35.560 totally torn up before we start the next one. 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:40.080 And this is just showing you the utilities that we're working on for each section, and 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.960 the yellow highlights different from what you saw last month. 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:51.920 The merged job let in April 4th, I think we went over this last time, Seaman was a low 00:02:51.920 --> 00:02:52.920 bidder. 00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:59.640 All the firms had a maximum amount of 56 months they could bid, and all the firms bid 56 months. 00:02:59.640 --> 00:03:04.000 So Seaman was the low bid at $100 million over what we had. 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.400 The district came up with $50 million, and the commission came up with $50 million, and 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.480 they awarded the contract. 00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:16.680 And we'll start to see, probably next month, one of these types of reports that show you 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.040 what they're doing, and what they're doing right now, they're basically just mobilizing 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:25.360 and waiting for some of these utilities to clear by the end of June. 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.000 I have a question on that one. 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.000 Yes ma'am. 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.760 Did I hear you say that it's $100 million over what was... 00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:40.400 Right, it was $450 something million estimated, and it came in at $555 or something like that. 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:44.120 Okay, and so you say that's over what was initially... 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.680 What I'm doing is trying to prove a point. 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.320 It was 18% over what the estimate was. 00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:52.240 Okay, and so the estimate took place how many years ago? 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:57.040 They did it about four months before they led the project. 00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:04.160 So what's happening in North Texas is, North Texas, the state in general is trying to spend 00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:09.680 $200 billion every two years on an infrastructure. 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:14.000 And in North Texas, we're the only ones that are able to get our projects ready to let. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:19.440 Houston is $2 billion behind their letting schedule, Austin's a billion and a half, San 00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:21.440 Antonio's about a billion. 00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:24.400 So the place to be if you want to work is North Texas. 00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:29.520 But what happens is we've got all these projects that are going to let, so we are competing 00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:34.000 against ourselves in projects, and material costs are going up. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.000 Okay. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.000 All right. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.000 Thank you, sir. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.000 Yes. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:48.440 So how does the various firms, and your firm, and the engineers involved, you know that 00:04:48.440 --> 00:04:55.520 because you just described it to us, how do we get where that 18% is zero, where the estimates 00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:57.680 are better? 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.840 All engineering firms know they don't want to be the low bidder, right? 00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:02.360 They want to be the high bidder. 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:07.140 And in the last two years, what I'll do is I'll give you on our next report, I'll show 00:05:07.140 --> 00:05:12.360 you what the TechStats construction cost index has gone, happened over the last four years 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:13.360 in general. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:20.480 But in particular, the last two years, construction costs have gone up close to 70%. 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:25.080 And the reason that is is that there's a lot of batch plants that are having trouble producing, 00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:30.240 there's a lot of whenever you have a hurricane somewhere and a lot of signals get torn down, 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.080 the lead time for signal material is long. 00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:40.680 We only had two bidders on this project, because they were -- they have to be large firms to 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.200 be able to do these size projects. 00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:47.220 And so they're working everywhere. 00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:54.960 So we try, but the construction inflation is outpacing what we're anticipating. 00:05:54.960 --> 00:06:01.520 And we do a look back, which that's all I know that the state does, is they do a 12-month 00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.160 rolling estimate for unit prices. 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:11.960 It's just a rolling estimate, and that's what they use. 00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:13.960 Sometimes we hit them, sometimes we don't. 00:06:13.960 --> 00:06:18.040 The question was more geared at how do we -- let me get closer to the bullseye so that 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.080 our estimates are a little tighter. 00:06:20.080 --> 00:06:22.040 This is not me throwing blame. 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.960 This is me, like, how do we be better? 00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:30.840 If I figure it out, I'm going to make a lot of money. 00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:34.960 Y'all won't see me tomorrow if I figure it out. 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:37.680 All right, thank you. 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:45.120 So your Mayhill job, this is the big grade separation at 35 and Mayhill. 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.280 Just to put this in perspective, when we first started doing this project, we thought it 00:06:48.280 --> 00:06:56.040 would be about 74 million bucks three years ago, four years ago, and now it's 125. 00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:01.800 Now we did add some scope, but there has been some construction increases in this one as 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.800 well. 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:04.040 And this is the improvements. 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.360 If you remember, all we're going to do is go to about to where the quick trip gas station 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.560 driveway is for that intersection. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:16.560 It'll be 12 lanes wide, as opposed to the 10 lanes you have at loop 288 underneath the 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:17.760 freeway. 00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:25.120 And I just met with the county judge yesterday, and he's very interested in making sure that 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.760 that segment from 35 to Colorado functions properly. 00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:34.160 So I'm going to need to work with your staff to figure out what it is that McCarthy's going 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:35.160 to be. 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:37.600 And McCarthy's doing it at that intersection, because is there something we can do to make 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.080 it bigger now? 00:07:39.080 --> 00:07:43.480 I think it's better to do it now than later. 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:50.480 And we are going to use RTR funds for that middle piece. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:51.880 And I'm working with Trevor on that. 00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:56.680 He calls me twice a week. 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:03.520 So we're ready to let June 25, so the merge will be torn up. 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:07.880 We're about to tear this one up in June, and in September we'll tear the further one up. 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.720 So I'm going to go south. 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:14.280 That's my favorite project right now. 00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:15.280 Yeah. 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:21.520 Remember, this adds those flyovers, bypasses, so you don't have to stop a brinker to go 00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:25.160 from 288 to Mayhill or Mayhill to 288. 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:26.160 Right. 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:27.160 OK. 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:29.440 So the middle section, we did meet with TechStat. 00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:31.680 They have 288 million of the 423. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.880 I need to make sure Ms. Trill puts that in there for the asterisk next time. 00:08:35.880 --> 00:08:36.880 We just got it. 00:08:36.880 --> 00:08:41.280 It was in the southern section, and this changed UTP that the RTC is going to -- we're going 00:08:41.280 --> 00:08:48.360 to approve the STAC, I think this week or next week, whenever they meet, flips the -- this 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:56.520 week flips money from the south to the north, and then we met with TechStat, and they found 00:08:56.520 --> 00:09:01.400 a project they can do for about 300 million, and basically it just means eliminating frontage 00:09:01.400 --> 00:09:04.480 roads where there's no development, and there's just floodplains. 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:12.120 But all the majors will be done, 407, 2449, and all those other ones in the middle, I 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:13.120 can't remember. 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:14.120 All those interchanges will be built. 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.800 We'll just leave out some of the frontage roads where there's no development. 00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:25.280 So we'll update that with our next report once the UTP is approved. 00:09:25.280 --> 00:09:27.280 Allergies. 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:31.600 So this is the project across the lake. 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.960 It's essentially done, and when I say those TechStat reports, do you see this report we 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.040 do here to tell you what's going on with the project? 00:09:38.040 --> 00:09:40.080 You'll start to see that on the merge. 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:44.360 You'll see that on the A-Hill breakout, and you'll see that on the 074 project. 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.560 But right now you see punch list, punch list, it's just various things to make sure that 00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:53.000 the contract is closed out, but the road's essentially open to traffic. 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:56.440 So are we expecting not to have any kind of lighting or anything? 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:02.120 I know we can't do it over the bridge, but before you get to the bridge, I mean, I'm 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:03.120 sorry. 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:08.580 The lake, after the lake, not any kind of lighting or anything. 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:10.560 So you're talking about continuous illumination? 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:11.560 Yes. 00:10:11.560 --> 00:10:12.560 Oh, is that what it's called? 00:10:12.560 --> 00:10:13.560 Yes, thank you. 00:10:13.560 --> 00:10:18.520 I don't know when lights are interchangeable and something people get confused, but the 00:10:18.520 --> 00:10:21.900 Corps won't allow continuous illumination over their property. 00:10:21.900 --> 00:10:22.900 Right. 00:10:22.900 --> 00:10:25.640 TechStat doesn't do continuous illumination. 00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:32.600 If you see a road that's got continuous illumination, somebody other than the state paid for it. 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:39.400 Because, and don't shoot the messenger, the state says they build the road, so the reflective 00:10:39.400 --> 00:10:45.080 materials on the road and the signs and markings are all you need to be able to see where you're 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:46.680 going is your headlights. 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:55.560 That's the way they build their roads, so you don't need continuous illumination. 00:10:55.560 --> 00:11:01.160 So there can be, but it would have to be a deal where the entity that interacts, it has 00:11:01.160 --> 00:11:03.720 to enter into agreement with TechStat. 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:08.560 Sometimes TechStat will help pay for the installation, but the maintenance and cost of electricity 00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:11.680 is on the third party. 00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:17.180 Okay, so that probably sounds like that might be the county. 00:11:17.180 --> 00:11:24.280 I'm just saying what people are thinking. 00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:29.640 I will tell you right now that in the 30 years I worked for Denton County, we have never 00:11:29.640 --> 00:11:35.400 put one stick of continuous illumination on any road, because if we did, that's all we'd 00:11:35.400 --> 00:11:36.400 spend our money on. 00:11:36.400 --> 00:11:40.280 We wouldn't be able to build any roads. 00:11:40.280 --> 00:11:46.400 I was going to say, I don't know that we want to say everyone wants continuous illumination, 00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:48.440 especially over core property and wetlands. 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.980 Well, you can't do it on the core, that's a dead end. 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:57.120 Even if they would let it happen, I'm not sure I would, that would be a thing I would 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:58.120 push for. 00:11:58.120 --> 00:11:59.120 Just saying. 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:05.180 Well, the county won't help you on that. 00:12:05.180 --> 00:12:07.000 Okay, thank you. 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:10.640 All right, Yalook 28 West Frontage Roads, we continue to move forward on this project. 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:18.520 Chain Patel is in the design phase and we're still moving utilities and we anticipate being 00:12:18.520 --> 00:12:21.560 done with all of the right of way at the end of this year. 00:12:21.560 --> 00:12:29.680 We made changes for the city and the developments on the southern end at 288 or 2449 right now, 00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:34.480 but 288 in the future in Underwood, I think we got all that worked out. 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:46.080 Had to do a mini reeval for that and the dollar amount for frontage roads for the segments 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:55.520 combined is 227 million and the intent is to do, we were going to do from 288 down to 00:12:55.520 --> 00:13:03.440 380 so that the city could then restrict trucks through town and make them go all the way 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:04.440 around. 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:10.520 But then Hunter Cole popped up and we're hard charging so we decided instead of doing two 00:13:10.520 --> 00:13:15.840 frontage roads from 288 down to 380 plus the grade separations over the railroad and the 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:25.680 380, we'll just do one frontage road northbound, make it one way in each direction, grade separate 00:13:25.680 --> 00:13:30.200 288, I mean 380 in the railroad. 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:35.200 So you can go the whole loop, it'll be a two lane road, one in northbound, one in southbound 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:40.760 and then as the development and the city picked the northbound because what that allows is 00:13:40.760 --> 00:13:46.680 everything to develop inside the loop to the exact corner edge of the frontage road where 00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:53.520 it'll be in the future and then as the developments warrant we'll build the other frontage road 00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:57.480 and so you'll have two lanes going north, two lanes going south, kind of like what we're 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:01.240 doing on the toll road and then ultimately there will be a main lane freeway through 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:02.240 there. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.240 Any questions? 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:04.240 Ultimately. 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:13.000 I told you a joke on this, when I started on this project I was single and skinny and 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:17.480 handsome and I've got three kids out of college that have been married for 31 years and I'm 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.680 still not done with it. 00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:24.080 I'm going to be buried out here somewhere I think. 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:31.080 We'll pick you a little spot over there on the corner for 35W and 288, we'll put you 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:32.080 at the verge. 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:33.080 There you go. 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:34.080 Down that floodplain. 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.080 There you go. 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:40.320 No because that would be THC and we couldn't build the road there because you'd be buried 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.320 there. 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:42.320 See? 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:47.000 No you can move dead people because they don't complain, you can't move a park. 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.480 That's what I heard just yesterday on the project. 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.920 I don't want to hear that now. 00:14:52.920 --> 00:14:55.600 Federally speaking. 00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:01.160 Okay so we're working on the 288, I call it the 288 north section and the connector 00:15:01.160 --> 00:15:02.160 to 380. 00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:06.440 I think we've got most of the kinks worked out on this. 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:12.940 We are looking at having a, we had our second public meeting in June, 52 attendance so what 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:17.400 happens is, remember how we had a lot of people torqued because we were showing multiple alignments 00:15:17.400 --> 00:15:23.600 further out, as soon as we pull into a more unified area that we're working in, the number 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:28.680 of people involved drop. 00:15:28.680 --> 00:15:31.920 Councilman Mc? 00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:37.280 There were some questions brought up at that meeting, there was access for a business on 00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:43.720 the south side near Giesling and it wasn't clear how they were going to have access because 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:47.120 that's where the bypass cuts off. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.280 Do you know the name of the business? 00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:58.360 East of the flea market, relatively new business, kind of where we're making the transition 00:15:58.360 --> 00:15:59.360 from elevated. 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:05.800 If they made that comment in the public meeting, it has to be addressed and we'll get it addressed 00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:08.640 and then come back and bring it to the mobility. 00:16:08.640 --> 00:16:14.160 I mean I don't know there will be a problem, it's just people were commenting that, I think 00:16:14.160 --> 00:16:15.160 Scott was there. 00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:23.520 So the point I'm making is, during the public meeting process, if anybody brings up anything, 00:16:23.520 --> 00:16:28.520 we have to go study it and tell them why we can or can't do it, right? 00:16:28.520 --> 00:16:35.160 So that's how you go from 17 alignments down to four, down to two, because you take everything 00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:40.120 anybody says and you study and go well the Corps won't let you go there or too many displacements 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.200 or you've got a cemetery, stuff like that. 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:48.840 So whatever they ask about, it will be addressed and we'll get that information back to you 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:49.840 when we know. 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:55.040 And the other one I want to check on, it's the same, not necessarily been long enough 00:16:55.040 --> 00:17:05.840 to answer this question, but the Texas U-turn there at potentially at Deerwood, did we go 00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:13.600 forward on anything there in terms, and the only reason I ask is because it seems like 00:17:13.600 --> 00:17:20.960 this is a combination of text out in the city and that is shown as proposed and is going 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:22.440 to continue to be there. 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:23.440 So no change. 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:24.440 Those are easy to do. 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:25.440 All right. 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.440 I have a question. 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:27.440 She has a question. 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:33.840 So me and somebody else met with Farhan and a former staff member several months ago and 00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:38.360 you may not be able to answer this question, but looking at the initial designs, it looked 00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:43.200 like the side path they just built on 380 might get interrupted and create like a two 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.240 mile detour. 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:50.840 Do we know if that sort of direct access along 380 is being maintained for a bike path on 00:17:50.840 --> 00:17:51.840 the north side? 00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:56.280 Well, if you're walking, don't you want to walk farther? 00:17:56.280 --> 00:17:57.280 We can look at that. 00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:04.880 The intent is to keep the out-grade traffic to go continue on 380 to the 288 intersection 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:10.800 and the only part that goes to 288 through that cut bypass are the main lanes, so they'll 00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:11.920 be elevated areas. 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:17.280 So it shouldn't have to be that much of a detour just to get under and around the bridge. 00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:19.400 It's going to be elevated. 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:28.400 But I will tell you that trails and shared use paths, if they're there, the state has 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.400 to accommodate them. 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:34.080 And if they're not, and you'll ask for them, we have to accommodate them. 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:40.020 The FHWA has a multimodal view of all roads. 00:18:40.020 --> 00:18:49.720 So however you want to walk, drive, pedal, or whatever, rickshaw, the roads got to allow 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:50.720 it. 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.000 And then segment seven, I just do this separately. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:59.160 It's part of the 288 job, but I leave this on here because you all are committed to Bonnie 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.280 Bray section six and south with various partners. 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:05.560 Cognitex decided they'd pick this up in its entirety. 00:19:05.560 --> 00:19:07.680 So whatever it ends up costing, it won't cost us anything. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:13.040 It just has to be consistent with what you all want and tie it into Bonnie Bray segment 00:19:13.040 --> 00:19:18.040 six. 00:19:18.040 --> 00:19:23.840 Airport Road, we are ready to let about this time next year. 00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:33.920 And I just got to come up with $34 million right now and then, could happen, it'll happen. 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:43.560 In 1173, we are in the process of again, doing the utility relocations, right aways acquired. 00:19:43.560 --> 00:19:46.080 We got to go meet with Crum on Hopkins. 00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:51.680 They've got some drainage issues related to Hopkins as it ties into 1173. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.480 But generally speaking, we're moving forward with the railroad agreements, and we seem 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:01.720 to be on track to be ready sometime next year. 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:08.120 And this is a project that Tech Stop Dallas District asked the county to initiate, because 00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:13.080 the volume on 1173 is significantly higher than that road can handle. 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:17.520 So we're fairly confident that even though, because there's a lot of drainage issues 00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:21.960 out there, we're fairly confident once we get it ready to let that, you know, it's a 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:25.120 big number, but we'll find it. 00:20:25.120 --> 00:20:27.640 I believe we have a question. 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:38.880 So remind me the configuration of Bartol, the new 1173 Bartol on the east coast of the 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:39.880 freeway. 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:40.880 It goes up. 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.880 Yeah. 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.240 What's that profile going to be like? 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:50.240 It'll be the six lanes ultimate that we're proposing, and it'll go down Bartol because 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.680 it matches y'all's thoroughfare plan. 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:57.620 And then we're building that interchange with the 35 job already. 00:20:57.620 --> 00:21:03.880 And so that when 1173 comes in, it'll be able to go right across the 77 and move down. 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:10.800 And if you look, we're talking about coming down right here to 288. 00:21:10.800 --> 00:21:16.800 So you'll be able to come 1173, go up, hit 35 where 77 hits, and then come straight down 00:21:16.800 --> 00:21:23.640 into town without having to do that janky move that we're having to do now. 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.520 Okay, I appreciate that. 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:30.840 And all of this part right here, all that improvement for the project will be built 00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:35.240 with the 35 job. 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:46.320 Okay, the outer loop, it mostly impacts the city of Denton. 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:53.880 So I mean, it goes through the area, but Mylam and 35 is generally speaking where we still 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:59.080 have to carry two alternatives because it's in EIS, EIS requires you to carry two. 00:21:59.080 --> 00:22:02.680 The red alignment is Rector. 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:04.400 Blue alignment is Mylam. 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:12.840 Blue comports with your thoroughfare plan, and it comports with Aubrey's thoroughfare 00:22:12.840 --> 00:22:13.840 plan. 00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:21.680 So we cut it into three segments, east, green belt, west. 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.480 And there's a red and blue in the east. 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:30.240 There's only one place across at the green belt, and there's a red and blue in the west. 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:34.840 And the main part of the outer loop that we're working on in this Denton area is Mylam has 00:22:34.840 --> 00:22:40.280 a Mylam Road north that ties in and then Mylam Road south goes west. 00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:46.600 156 is out here, you can't see it here, but it's right here, 156. 00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:53.040 And so COG has told us in 2050, 156 is going to be a super arterial, which means six lanes 00:22:53.040 --> 00:22:56.040 at minimum. 00:22:56.040 --> 00:23:04.520 And so there's a desire on the part of the COG to see some connection between 35 and 00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:07.120 156 on one of those Mylams. 00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:10.660 Mylam is the county that just bought all that land for an expo. 00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:19.520 And Andy being a long-term planner, he's not planning for 2050, he's planning for when 00:23:19.520 --> 00:23:24.040 somebody comes along and says, "Why don't we just punch the freeway through the expo?" 00:23:24.040 --> 00:23:27.320 So we're trying to figure out the best way through that. 00:23:27.320 --> 00:23:33.800 Techstop's given us a 1,200-foot hole, you call it a bridge, a great separation so we 00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:39.760 can hit anywhere in that Mylam North, Mylam South, to whatever makes the best use of funding 00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:41.760 from 35 over to 156. 00:23:41.760 --> 00:23:46.280 And once we get the geometry fit, because what happens is there's direct connects and 00:23:46.280 --> 00:23:51.240 wherever we decide to hit, that direct connect slides up and down to wherever those main 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:56.920 lanes are, and then that has a ripple effect on your interstate access justification report, 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:06.080 so you got to move all these ramps, and so it's a moving target, but we got to know what 00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:07.080 the expo's doing. 00:24:07.080 --> 00:24:12.920 And so we met with the county yesterday, and they've got to get us some information. 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:14.200 That's the only big deal. 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:15.200 Everything else is pretty much settled. 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:22.000 But you're going to have to go across the green belt, 500 foot, it's probably a no-go 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:31.200 for them, 350 foot still gives us future expandability and redundancy. 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:37.760 They want us to stay in 150 feet, and 150 feet would be frontage road main lanes. 00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:43.960 No redundancy, no future capacity, and if it's a mile-long bridge and if anything happens 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:48.200 under the frontage roads, fire or whatever, the main lanes would have to be shut down. 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:53.920 So we're going to win the argument, but we got to have to have the argument with the 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:58.440 Corps on why we can't stay inside there easement. 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.520 But we'll do what we always do with the Corps. 00:25:00.520 --> 00:25:03.760 We'll surrender early and pay what they ask, and we'll get through it. 00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:12.800 So the people that are coming to the meetings to discuss this particular thing, is there 00:25:12.800 --> 00:25:14.520 any comment from the community? 00:25:14.520 --> 00:25:15.520 Absolutely. 00:25:15.520 --> 00:25:20.120 Do they want to do 500 feet or 100, you know, what do they want? 00:25:20.120 --> 00:25:26.160 Okay, so that's a perfect, what I think we ought to do is have LJA scheduled to come 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.320 over here and just make a presentation for you all at the Mobility Committee, because 00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:38.120 they've got the comments granulated for all the meetings they've had by east and west 00:25:38.120 --> 00:25:44.600 region by mood, intent, concerns, environment, location, type. 00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:48.380 They got all these questions they ask, and it's very granular. 00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:58.040 So we know exactly what they feel, but the reality is, is that we meet Denton County, 00:25:58.040 --> 00:26:03.200 Collin County, Rockwell County, and Kauffman County, meet with COG and TXDOT every month 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:04.200 on the outer loop. 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:12.320 The outer loop will be a freeway, the Mobility 2045 calls it as a freeway, and the feds require 00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:16.240 you to match whatever the Mobility Plan calls for. 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:22.240 2050, we're going to exceed, Denton County is going to exceed in the 2050 plan population 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:24.520 in Collin County for the first time. 00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:28.440 And the reason is, is we've built all of our roads from county line to county line, county 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:33.520 line to north of Denton, Collin County has only got a third of their county developed. 00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:39.280 So we're going to bypass them, and the freeway for the outer loop is already in the plan 00:26:39.280 --> 00:26:40.680 as a freeway. 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:47.160 So we're talking about where the freeway goes, not whether it's a freeway, and that's what 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:48.160 the EIS is going to do. 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:49.160 Did I answer your question? 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:50.160 Is it hot in here? 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:57.840 I mean, you did, you answered the question, but I guess I'm just a little bit more simpler 00:26:57.840 --> 00:26:58.840 than that. 00:26:58.840 --> 00:27:03.180 You mentioned something about 500 feet, and then 300 feet, and then 150 feet. 00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:10.300 So only at the, only at the green belt, so the green belt has not only flow adhesements, 00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:14.160 but the whole green belt corridor has got what's called conservation. 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:15.580 Yeah, the conservation part. 00:27:15.580 --> 00:27:21.320 And they literally require an act of Congress to do anything inside those conservation areas. 00:27:21.320 --> 00:27:26.840 So we're, the feds are telling us, the Federal Highway Administration is telling us, plan 00:27:26.840 --> 00:27:33.080 for the future, redundancy and expandability, the Corps of Engineers is saying, don't touch 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:34.080 my property. 00:27:34.080 --> 00:27:35.080 Okay. 00:27:35.080 --> 00:27:36.880 So the two feds have got to work it out. 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.680 And typically what happens is the Corps can't say no, they could just make it hurt real 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:41.680 bad. 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:43.160 And we're used to that. 00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:50.840 So just before we get too far down the road on this. 00:27:50.840 --> 00:27:56.800 Five years ago, 2016, whatever that is, that's a whole lot longer than five years ago, shoot. 00:27:56.800 --> 00:28:01.840 The county knew the green belt was going to be the linchpin for this project. 00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:08.800 So we've done two things, one is cockpit $50 million in the 10 year plan, just for the green 00:28:08.800 --> 00:28:10.520 belt crossing. 00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:16.280 So that's to make it as environmentally sensitive and is compatible. 00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:22.600 And what we're going to do is whatever the court tells us for, we're going to go beyond 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:23.600 the norms. 00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:30.600 So everywhere the 23 mile outer loop crosses any kind of a flow adhesement of any type, 00:28:30.600 --> 00:28:34.360 we are going to just accommodate the freeway crossing. 00:28:34.360 --> 00:28:41.840 We are also working on this thing called TSI transportation stormwater initiative, where 00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:48.560 we're going to go vertical up and down those floodplains, widen out the ability to detain 00:28:48.560 --> 00:28:50.760 or retain. 00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:54.480 It'll look, it'll be a detention pond, but it'll look like a retention pond because we're 00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:01.480 going to be using those flowage areas to capture that water and then to use natural means to 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:06.160 not send it down the river to Dallas, but to recharge the aquifers. 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.680 So the road's going to act as a filter. 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:17.040 So that 500 foot is needed for things that you would not necessarily do on a freeway. 00:29:17.040 --> 00:29:21.880 Aesthetically, so in other words, another thing we're doing is all the other corridors 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.520 have about 24 feet back a curve for parkway. 00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:27.720 We know we got to be aesthetically pleasing going through here. 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:35.000 So we're close to 50 feet back a curve for parkway for aesthetically pleasing for the 00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.000 environment. 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.000 There's a lot going on on this. 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000 Oh, okay. 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.000 Okay. 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.000 Thank you. 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.000 Yes, sir. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:46.520 If it's possible, and not to take John off the hot seat because I like putting him there, 00:29:46.520 --> 00:29:52.200 but maybe if John could coordinate with LJA, we could have them come present, I think it'd 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:53.200 be useful for the group. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.200 Absolutely. 00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:57.280 That'll be nice and that'll be helpful to the people that are not making it to the meetings. 00:29:57.280 --> 00:30:02.600 Yes, and it is very, the information that I'll bring to you is mind-boggling. 00:30:02.600 --> 00:30:03.600 Okay. 00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:04.600 Yes, I understand. 00:30:04.600 --> 00:30:05.600 Thank you very much. 00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:06.600 If you can get them on upcoming agendas, let them know the date, that'd be great. 00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:07.600 Yes, sir. 00:30:07.600 --> 00:30:08.600 Let them know that we'd like to meet with them. 00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:09.600 Yes, sir. 00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:14.440 I was just going to say, if there's a possibility to not have it in July or to have some sort 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:19.120 of static report that couples with it, that would be helpful. 00:30:19.120 --> 00:30:21.280 Yeah, I don't think I'm here in July. 00:30:21.280 --> 00:30:24.320 I'm going to be in Wisconsin. 00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:25.960 We'll get out of vacation season. 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:26.960 Thank you. 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:27.960 Appreciate that input. 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:28.960 Susie, do you have anything? 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:29.960 Okay. 00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:37.800 Okay, y'all see what's going on with Alma Locus, raise the roof. 00:30:37.800 --> 00:30:40.280 Raise it up. 00:30:40.280 --> 00:30:44.400 This is where somebody else besides me talks, so I'm just going to pass it off unless somebody 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:45.400 else talks. 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:46.400 Oh, okay. 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:47.400 You can finally pass it off. 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.600 November of this year, we're supposed to be done. 00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:52.360 It'll be beautiful. 00:30:52.360 --> 00:30:53.360 And then glossaries. 00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:54.360 There it is. 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:55.360 I'll go back to the top. 00:30:55.360 --> 00:30:56.360 Oops. 00:30:56.360 --> 00:30:57.360 Sorry, y'all. 00:30:57.360 --> 00:30:58.360 Do y'all have any other questions for me or anything? 00:30:58.360 --> 00:30:59.360 I don't have any other questions. 00:30:59.360 --> 00:31:00.360 Does anybody else have any other questions? 00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:01.360 No. 00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:02.360 All right, it sounds like you are good to go. 00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:05.360 I don't know how to undo that. 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:15.300 We'll turn it off. 00:31:15.300 --> 00:31:19.080 Appreciate that. 00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:26.400 Thank you very much, Mr. Polster. 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:39.200 Okay, we're going to move on to CMC 24-018, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:45.920 accommodating bike racks with a focus on land, landfills, why would I say landfill? 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:46.920 In-field locations. 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:47.920 Landfills locations. 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:48.920 Well, maybe. 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:54.160 There may be bike racks at the landfill. 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:57.280 So I'm going to introduce myself a little bit. 00:31:57.280 --> 00:32:06.360 So I'm Greg Scott, and I was told that I could choose my own title for today, and I choose 00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:14.800 as my title for today the guy that has lived in many places, some of which have tried to 00:32:14.800 --> 00:32:22.840 chase the car, tried to build their way out of congestion, and other places that have 00:32:22.840 --> 00:32:39.400 not, that have succeeded in resolving congestion or living with congestion and kept their character, 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:50.000 kept their quality of life, and I hope that I can help you all do exactly that. 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:55.300 I don't know if that'll fit on a business card, but we are going to try to fit that 00:32:55.300 --> 00:32:57.600 on a business card. 00:32:57.600 --> 00:32:58.600 Okay. 00:32:58.600 --> 00:33:06.360 And today, I'm going to talk about bike racks, okay, a piece of the puzzle, and also about 00:33:06.360 --> 00:33:09.180 speed cushions, okay? 00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:13.080 So first, bike racks. 00:33:13.080 --> 00:33:14.080 Based on your questions. 00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:15.640 These are based on your questions, right? 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:16.640 Hold on just a moment. 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:28.240 I'm going to fix the screen, but are we, oh, there you go, okay, beautiful, okay. 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:36.760 So the agenda for that is to first start with the big picture, talk about the key characteristics 00:33:36.760 --> 00:33:45.680 of successful bike rack program, emphasizing infill locations, meaning places where the 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:57.680 city wasn't able to ask a developer to put bike racks in, okay, simple samples of innovation 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:02.340 and a recommendation, then we'll open it for questions and answers, okay. 00:34:02.340 --> 00:34:15.200 So big picture is bikes have a surprising ability to improve the situation. 00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:20.920 They, we all know that they help our health. 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:25.600 I didn't know about immune system, but they can help our health. 00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:29.760 They can help our community, quality of life. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:37.720 Maybe we don't understand that businesses, when they look to locate anymore, they are 00:34:37.720 --> 00:34:42.640 out there trying to attract employees, and that quality of life is very important to 00:34:42.640 --> 00:34:47.080 them to getting their employees. 00:34:47.080 --> 00:34:54.680 And when they consider relocating, they're looking at that, okay. 00:34:54.680 --> 00:35:06.440 Bikes generally are attractive to maybe a three-mile distance for most people. 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:17.840 Most of Denton is within three miles of the A train station, 52% of the nationwide of 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:26.600 all trips, all trips are within that three miles. 00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:32.760 This is something not well known, and that is when you start up your car, before you're 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:43.000 a catalytic converter warms up, you're spewing out a lot more pollution than after the three 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:44.140 miles. 00:35:44.140 --> 00:35:51.280 So it's disproportionate what a bike can do for air quality. 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:55.320 So those are some of the advantages of bikes. 00:35:55.320 --> 00:36:03.960 However, the challenge is uncertainty for a new rider, they go, well, how do I do this? 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:06.440 I've always been driving. 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:07.520 How do I do this? 00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:09.680 So what's a safe route? 00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:11.280 What's a direct route? 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.360 What if it rains? 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.760 And what do I do with my bike so it can be safe? 00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.440 So that's where bike racks come in. 00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:25.600 Our job is to simplify the decision. 00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:32.720 Key characteristics are that there's ample bike racks, they are visible and identifiable 00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:35.940 as bike racks. 00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:42.640 These are the areas that we can put bike racks. 00:36:42.640 --> 00:36:48.680 These are examples of ample bike racks and visible bike racks. 00:36:48.680 --> 00:36:52.760 You have the little sign up there, parking. 00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:55.720 You have a lot of bike racks there. 00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:58.960 This is in one block of Portland. 00:36:58.960 --> 00:36:59.960 All these pictures. 00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:01.960 Well, not the last one. 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:04.720 The last one isn't. 00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:05.720 Ample and visible. 00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:06.720 Okay. 00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:13.800 Here's a grocery store and that and over on the left side. 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.240 Is there ample and visible bike racks? 00:37:17.240 --> 00:37:22.520 No, I notice those are ample and visible bike racks, but it doesn't say anything. 00:37:22.520 --> 00:37:23.520 You're right. 00:37:23.520 --> 00:37:24.880 It just looks like something. 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:25.880 Right. 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:35.080 And to improve that, we should put a sign there if we do that, yeah. 00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:38.960 All these examples are not going to be perfect. 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:44.720 And there's trade-offs, but we should strive for perfection. 00:37:44.720 --> 00:37:45.720 Okay. 00:37:45.720 --> 00:37:47.880 The other characteristic is context sensitive. 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.200 Think about where the bike racks are going to go. 00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:51.640 What are the needs? 00:37:51.640 --> 00:38:00.640 So I'm asking, how might bike racks be different at a commuter rail station versus a grocery 00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:03.600 store versus an employer? 00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:04.600 Any thoughts on that? 00:38:04.600 --> 00:38:06.960 Oh, you're asking that right now? 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:07.960 Yeah. 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:08.960 Oh, okay. 00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:10.280 Yeah, I have thoughts on that. 00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:22.880 But I'd like to see bike racks at the commuter rail station because the commuter rail station 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.480 is next to a lot of resources. 00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:33.000 So it'd be nice to be able to have bike racks there, walkable. 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:38.040 These places are walkable and then, so that'd be good. 00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:39.040 Grocery stores? 00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:40.040 What do y'all think? 00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:42.400 Yeah, how might they be different than a grocery store? 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:45.760 I mean, commuter train, if you're leaving your bike at the station, let me make sure 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.800 I'm on, you're probably leaving it there for longer. 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.680 I would be looking for something more secure that's even harder to steal. 00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:56.440 So I know Dart has the little covers, for example. 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.480 Something like a grocery store, you're not there as long. 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.840 So you don't need like special stuff like a cover or anything. 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.960 And then for an employer, I would hope I had indoor bike parking because that's like the 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.760 ultimate security so that my bike doesn't get stolen while I'm at work. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.800 So that's kind of what I'd be looking for for those. 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:12.800 Yeah. 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:14.520 What about the idea of stealing bikes? 00:39:14.520 --> 00:39:19.920 Is there just like a big massive stealing bikes, like stealing cars? 00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.480 Especially at UNT, it's really bad. 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:26.560 Downtown to some degree, so where there's a bunch of bikes, there's going to be more 00:39:26.560 --> 00:39:27.560 bike theft. 00:39:27.560 --> 00:39:28.560 That's where the bike thieves go. 00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:32.160 And it's really easy to steal most bikes with those really, those coily locks. 00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:33.160 Super easy. 00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:34.760 Big, big, big, big. 00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:39.920 So the demand is going to be greater at the A train, right? 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.920 How long? 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:41.920 How long you're there? 00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:44.920 You want some kind of protection? 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:52.680 And I add a destination, meaning not everybody just goes to the A train and that walks off, 00:39:52.680 --> 00:39:57.120 you know, in Louisville or whatever and their office is right there or wherever they're 00:39:57.120 --> 00:39:58.120 going. 00:39:58.120 --> 00:40:04.160 You got to have some on the train, okay? 00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:12.280 So we can ask those same questions about, you know, shopping trips, right? 00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.800 This is geared towards shopping trips, right? 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:23.680 Go to Home Depot, get your big load of cement and we'll let Susie do that. 00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:24.680 Okay. 00:40:24.680 --> 00:40:25.680 And daycare, right? 00:40:25.680 --> 00:40:29.240 Quick in and out, but you still want your bike safe, right? 00:40:29.240 --> 00:40:33.000 And you've got to have your kids with you, I suppose, if you're going to daycare. 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.440 Okay, so identifiable. 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.920 Now we're going to buzz through the rest of these slides and if I go too fast just let 00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:39.920 me know. 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:42.260 Okay, so innovation. 00:40:42.260 --> 00:40:44.040 They're very identical. 00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:46.440 These are bike racks. 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:52.360 These are called secret cycle loops and you can hook them to a bunch of things, right? 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:53.360 So it's right there. 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:55.640 You don't have to put anything new in the ground. 00:40:55.640 --> 00:40:57.440 Hey, how about this? 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:04.320 You've got benches with bike racks hooked to them. 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.400 If you have limited space, put it up on the end. 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:17.480 But actually there's a lot of secret space here that virtually every intersection, every 00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:23.800 driveway has what's called visibility triangle, okay? 00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.740 So but the secret is, is cars can't park there, but bikes can park there. 00:41:28.740 --> 00:41:32.520 So those are great places to put bikes. 00:41:32.520 --> 00:41:40.480 So in this case, this is another Foreman picture from that same block that I walked around, 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:41.480 okay? 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:44.480 They put it in the visibility triangle. 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.660 They put it in the middle of the visibility triangle. 00:41:47.660 --> 00:41:53.360 They put it on the driveway visibility triangle, okay? 00:41:53.360 --> 00:42:01.680 Then there's innovation, like if you don't, if you don't quite have enough bike racks, 00:42:01.680 --> 00:42:07.040 why don't you just show where, you know, in one spot, right? 00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:11.400 Show how to get to the next one. 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:16.880 And if you want to test out a location, you put them on little rails or whatever. 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:18.280 It doesn't work one place. 00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:20.240 It's more desirable in another place. 00:42:20.240 --> 00:42:21.240 Pick it up. 00:42:21.240 --> 00:42:22.240 Move it. 00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:27.400 Hey, and then there's innovations for comfort, right? 00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:30.420 Keep it out of the rain. 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:37.600 Have a small group of folks that have a spot for secure parking and out of the rain. 00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:43.080 Or your individual locker. 00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:51.960 So the recommendation is that we, as a city, have standards that show that bikes can go 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:58.000 in the sight triangle, that we pilot as pilots, right? 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:03.040 And test out the cycle loops. 00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:12.960 See if those are hoops that we work with DCTA to make sure we have plenty of bike parking 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:19.960 at the station, on the trains as best as we can, on the buses. 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:27.160 And we really capitalize on the wayfinding so that people can know where to go, get rid 00:43:27.160 --> 00:43:29.280 of that certainty. 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.240 So with that, I can take questions. 00:43:32.240 --> 00:43:33.920 Yes, ma'am. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:34.920 Oh. 00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:35.920 Sorry. 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:40.040 I followed the rules. 00:43:40.040 --> 00:43:43.640 So I really like the -- actually, can you go back one slide? 00:43:43.640 --> 00:43:44.640 Do you have recommendations? 00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:49.440 I really like the sight triangle use idea because it's otherwise basically dead space. 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.040 And I believe the reason you can put a bike there and not a car is just the car is taller 00:43:53.040 --> 00:43:55.240 and the bikes are shorter so you can still see. 00:43:55.240 --> 00:44:00.880 I know there's at least one spot at Hickory and Fry Street just north of UNT, sort of 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:02.360 a commercial area. 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:07.440 And there is a space that is no parking, but people frequently park there. 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:14.040 That could be a good location where there's consistent infractions at that location. 00:44:14.040 --> 00:44:20.280 And I know at -- in front of Harvest House on Hickory Street, we do have a bike corral, 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.720 so the racks on railing basically. 00:44:23.720 --> 00:44:29.340 And I think they requested it a long time ago, like they volunteered to have it there. 00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:36.420 And then we do have some cycle hoops if anybody wants to go look at them along Hickory Street 00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:40.320 in the Fry Street area north of UNT, they used to be parking meters and they put those 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.480 little circles on the old parking meters. 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:49.080 So I did have a question. 00:44:49.080 --> 00:44:53.600 Do you think it would be possible to start some sort of small program where maybe a small 00:44:53.600 --> 00:44:56.320 business could request a rack? 00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:01.020 So for example, I think I have the most trouble with bike parking at older strip malls, places 00:45:01.020 --> 00:45:04.800 like that where there's not really a street nearby, so there's not really that many poles 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:06.600 to walk to. 00:45:06.600 --> 00:45:10.680 So that's kind of where I've had probably the most trouble. 00:45:10.680 --> 00:45:14.520 I think I've seen grant funding for that, but, you know, I know the reality of our staffing 00:45:14.520 --> 00:45:15.520 and that kind of thing. 00:45:15.520 --> 00:45:19.560 So what's kind of your feel on like a small program where we had a small number of racks 00:45:19.560 --> 00:45:23.280 where maybe a business requests one or applies for one? 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:32.240 Off the cuff, I would say it really is staff time, but I mean, they're relatively cheap. 00:45:32.240 --> 00:45:39.640 And if it's a program and they're subsidizing and working together, it seems like a reasonable 00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:44.120 approach. 00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:49.320 This is more of a comment I'm going to say than a question, but in 2018 Denton applied 00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:53.040 to be a bicycle-friendly community through the League of American Bicyclists. 00:45:53.040 --> 00:45:58.560 So in DFW, some bicycle-friendly communities that have the designation are Frisco, Richardson, 00:45:58.560 --> 00:46:01.180 Plano, and Fort Worth. 00:46:01.180 --> 00:46:03.840 So whenever we applied, we got honorable mention. 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:07.580 We haven't applied since then, but, you know, sort of in between applications, we should 00:46:07.580 --> 00:46:10.480 be trying to make improvements. 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:14.720 The things you have to do to get a designation are actually a really good blueprint for encouraging 00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:17.600 and enabling more people to get around by bicycle. 00:46:17.600 --> 00:46:21.940 And one of the things is bike parking and what it looks like. 00:46:21.940 --> 00:46:27.000 And I know our development code already has standards that meet the requirements, things 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:31.880 like supporting the bike in two locations, allowing people to use a U-lock. 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:35.440 So they need to be able to lock the frame of the bike to the rack, otherwise people 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.980 just pop the wheel off and take off with the rest of the bicycle. 00:46:38.980 --> 00:46:45.000 So definitely, you know, whatever we do, I would want that to match those requirements. 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:48.340 So I know the wave racks are not, they don't meet the requirements. 00:46:48.340 --> 00:46:51.320 It only supports the bike in one location. 00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:55.560 School yard racks that I've seen Denton ISD putting in, those don't meet the qualifications. 00:46:55.560 --> 00:47:00.040 Like I tried locking my bike to it with a U-lock, and that didn't really work because 00:47:00.040 --> 00:47:02.960 you can't get your bike up to the rack the right way. 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.640 But definitely like staple racks, inverted U-racks, and I believe also the cycle hoops 00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:13.000 also hold it in two places and allow you to use a U-lock, so those match as well. 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:16.980 So just encourage us to make sure that we're following those standards. 00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:18.940 And then one final question. 00:47:18.940 --> 00:47:24.360 So there's so many things that we can do to encourage and prioritize or enable people 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.460 to get around by bicycle. 00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:31.160 But we have to sort of prioritize our time and efforts based on funding, based on staffing. 00:47:31.160 --> 00:47:37.800 So in your opinion, kind of where would bike parking fall in the priorities in terms of 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:41.600 impact of getting more people to bike, enabling more people to bike? 00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:43.080 If you can sort of rank that, Ian? 00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:45.800 Yeah, that's a challenging question, right? 00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:52.120 It's going to depend on the bike, or right, on the cyclist, sorry. 00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:58.720 Because each has their own priorities, but certainly bang for the buck, this is a pretty 00:47:58.720 --> 00:47:59.720 good one. 00:47:59.720 --> 00:48:00.720 Yeah. 00:48:00.720 --> 00:48:05.120 Just wanted to quickly add to our answer. 00:48:05.120 --> 00:48:09.320 Farhan Bhatt, Deputy Director of Transportation Services. 00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:19.000 So both your questions, the last one about getting recognized as a biking community, 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:25.800 as well as this one where the strategic locations could be, we are conducting the shared mobility 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:26.800 study. 00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:33.200 Greg's staff is developing scope for the study, and many of these guidelines would be part 00:48:33.200 --> 00:48:35.160 of the study and recommendations. 00:48:35.160 --> 00:48:40.560 When I said in past meetings that there are voids that we are identifying when it comes 00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:46.800 to bike or active transportation, this is exactly what I meant, that there are things 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:51.840 that we are identifying which are there, and we would try to address through the study. 00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:52.840 Okay? 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:53.840 Thanks. 00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:54.840 Yes. 00:48:54.840 --> 00:49:00.000 So I had a couple of similar questions, I'm going to leap off of Susie's. 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:06.360 I mean, the hoops look really attractive because of the flexibility and installation. 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:13.020 My question is, generally it looks like those are one, and maybe if you pushed it two bikes 00:49:13.020 --> 00:49:20.920 on either side of the loop with one connection like Susie was referencing. 00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:28.440 So I guess what's the pro, I'd be interested in the pro-con of that flexibility angle and 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:35.400 cheapness of installation versus racks that are higher density, and what's in the sort 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:43.280 of cost per bike spot kind of argument, what's the best bank for the buck on cost effectiveness 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:52.120 and efficiency for the planning and transportation divisions to kind of look at, your department 00:49:52.120 --> 00:49:53.120 to look at? 00:49:53.120 --> 00:49:54.120 Yeah. 00:49:54.120 --> 00:50:02.720 I mean, the most expensive bike rack is the one that's not used, or that doesn't encourage 00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:03.720 use. 00:50:03.720 --> 00:50:14.720 So you put them, they need to be ample, meaning many of them, okay, and they need to be visible. 00:50:14.720 --> 00:50:18.880 So I think the answer is really all of the above. 00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:19.880 Yeah. 00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:25.120 I mean, and you're going to hear this from me, well, hopefully I'll be employed with 00:50:25.120 --> 00:50:33.360 you guys for a long time, but you know, for many years is flexibility is important, okay? 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:39.400 We don't sacrifice the good for the perfect, okay, we don't. 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:42.960 We need to be flexible. 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:49.520 If I could paraphrase, then what I'm hearing your suggestion being, and correct me if I'm 00:50:49.520 --> 00:50:56.080 wrong, is on sort of recommendation number two, that is sort of those in many locations 00:50:56.080 --> 00:51:00.800 and then larger density racks in specific locations, is that kind of what I'm hearing? 00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:01.800 Sure. 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:03.080 I think that would be a pretty fair assessment. 00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:04.080 Okay. 00:51:04.080 --> 00:51:12.080 Then my second question related to this is, again, related to something that Commissioner 00:51:12.080 --> 00:51:21.080 Rumer said, and that was in some of these places where, you know, city parking is city 00:51:21.080 --> 00:51:27.280 parking on city streets, but we already do have, we have sort of already tried to pilot 00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:33.280 the parklets in parking spots and there's been other opportunities to put, you know, 00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:34.880 rack stations in parking spots. 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:40.120 I think you had a demonstration of two racks in the parking spot on the square, if I'm 00:51:40.120 --> 00:51:43.960 remembering correctly, and 20 bikes or something in there. 00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:51.960 I don't remember the exact number, but for, she was talking about businesses requesting 00:51:51.960 --> 00:52:01.280 facilities, do we have opportunities where that partnership can be, we provide or subsidize 00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:05.640 or fully subsidize a rack if we could get people to request one? 00:52:05.640 --> 00:52:14.040 So A, that's one question, and then B, if those kinds of opportunities are available, 00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:20.560 is that then more, is the barrier to adoption more the business or the city coming up with 00:52:20.560 --> 00:52:21.680 bike racks? 00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:23.920 So that's a two-part there. 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:28.760 I'm going to jump in just to say, from a budgetary standpoint, we can evaluate. 00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:34.520 I know that Farhan's working on, you know, and with Greg, you know, somewhat of a strategy 00:52:34.520 --> 00:52:37.360 of what we're going to do and where we can go. 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:43.560 Ultimately we'll present whatever those concepts are for incentives or that partnership, and 00:52:43.560 --> 00:52:45.400 we can come back to you with that information. 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:50.680 I'd be really interested in, you know, figuring out whatever the, what's the best way to lower 00:52:50.680 --> 00:52:57.640 the barriers to adoption, how much business, how much city, what's the ratio, because if 00:52:57.640 --> 00:53:03.360 we had a warehouse with 10 racks just waiting around, then it is community leaders convincing 00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.600 businesses to adopt if that's the barrier. 00:53:06.600 --> 00:53:10.920 Otherwise, if it's the cost of the bike, then that's a different barrier kind of thing. 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:14.800 Yeah, and I think transportation services has a great deal of passion in this area, 00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.640 and they absolutely want to do, and then there's budget constraints, and then ultimately what 00:53:18.640 --> 00:53:21.920 it is that we go through the budget process this year and what it is that we're going 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:25.000 to be asking for and where that's going to fall our rank. 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.480 I appreciate that, Scott. 00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:27.480 Thank you. 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:32.400 And my last question on this was sort of back to the number four, the wayfinding. 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:41.320 And I take it from the presentation that this was mostly informing people where other parking 00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:42.320 opportunities are. 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:43.320 Yes. 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:49.160 So, but do we, we have a little bit of a cart before the horse. 00:53:49.160 --> 00:53:57.680 We have to identify where we want them in the first place and find high occupancy, our 00:53:57.680 --> 00:54:03.840 high desire spot so that they are well and truly used, so then we have the problem of 00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:11.920 needing secondary parking so that we can apply signage to, but if we don't have primary parking 00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:17.180 bike racks, then we don't know what our high use society, so it's a little, there's a little 00:54:17.180 --> 00:54:22.240 bit of an order issue in there, is they, it is a little bit of, if you build it, they 00:54:22.240 --> 00:54:28.880 will come, but they won't know to come until you build it, so, you know, there's an order 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:30.440 dependency that's happening there. 00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:31.440 Yeah. 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:37.680 I'm going to step out on the ice here with Scott and say, look, let's put this in perspective, 00:54:37.680 --> 00:54:38.680 okay? 00:54:38.680 --> 00:54:44.720 We've heard TechStat and how they're going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on 00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:47.960 the latest road. 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:54.240 These bike racks are pittance relative. 00:54:54.240 --> 00:54:56.880 Let's put it in perspective, right? 00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:05.760 We have the principles, the principles that they're ample, that they're visible, they're 00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:10.200 readily identifiable. 00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:11.860 Stay with the principles. 00:55:11.860 --> 00:55:12.860 Stay with the principles. 00:55:12.860 --> 00:55:16.360 They're not that much money, okay? 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:22.080 But you have to, having said that, there are silos, okay? 00:55:22.080 --> 00:55:24.800 TechStat money is TechStat money, okay? 00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:32.440 But there are ways to, you know, work across silos, and I hope we can find that. 00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:33.440 Excellent. 00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:36.440 Thank you. 00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:46.720 Well, I have a question, particularly, so I understand that we can, as a community, you 00:55:46.720 --> 00:55:52.680 know, kind of help decide where they're going to be and how they're going to be. 00:55:52.680 --> 00:56:03.500 So we are looking at a variety of types of bike racks in particular places. 00:56:03.500 --> 00:56:11.400 Are we going to be able to decide, like, the color of the bike racks? 00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:16.000 I'm just looking for consistency, and we have new people coming in. 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:21.320 Can they see something pink over there and know that's our color? 00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:28.640 And it takes me back to just the bike paths, in my experience with bike paths in other 00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:29.640 cities. 00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:30.640 I'll use Denver as an example. 00:56:30.640 --> 00:56:35.400 I said something about going there last month and noticed that all their bike paths are 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.160 kind of like a lime green. 00:56:37.160 --> 00:56:41.920 Everything that's green, I recognize as a path for biking. 00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:48.920 Are we going to, are we looking forward to that conversation, Susie, anybody, on what 00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:56.800 we want, you know, the consistency of color means a lot to people. 00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:00.720 We have bike racks downtown right now, and they're red. 00:57:00.720 --> 00:57:02.700 I can't really see them. 00:57:02.700 --> 00:57:04.520 I just know they're there. 00:57:04.520 --> 00:57:08.080 I'm not, you know, color blind, but it doesn't grab my attention. 00:57:08.080 --> 00:57:14.000 Like, oh, if I had a bike, there's a bike rack, you know, without having to just look 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.080 for it or know it's there. 00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:21.200 Are we going to, are we going to do that as a community? 00:57:21.200 --> 00:57:26.560 Are you all going to decide for us, or is there a decision to be made in that regard? 00:57:26.560 --> 00:57:33.780 Some colors are national standards, like the green, okay, and we will need to follow those. 00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:35.720 Street markings, that's very important. 00:57:35.720 --> 00:57:41.280 There are standard colors, but there are certainly opportunities that when we get down the road, 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:42.280 we can cover that. 00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:45.720 So let us know what we'll have, be able to do. 00:57:45.720 --> 00:57:51.840 You can be the chairman of the bike color committee. 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:52.840 Okay. 00:57:52.840 --> 00:58:05.000 Very quickly, yes, when we kick off this study, shared mobility study, standardizing bike 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.720 facilities within the city of Denton would be one of the priorities as well. 00:58:09.720 --> 00:58:15.280 So standards, not only the standard, what kind of bike lanes and where the colored markings 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:18.840 would be and what type, all of those would be addressed through that study as well. 00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:19.840 Okay. 00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:20.840 Thank you, sir. 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:21.840 I appreciate it. 00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:28.840 I mean, some things, business owner, if they're a sponsor, may not want, but we need to balance 00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:29.840 this. 00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:30.840 Okay. 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:31.840 Okay. 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:32.840 All right. 00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:33.840 Thank you. 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:34.840 I think that's it. 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:35.840 Okay. 00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:36.840 Thank you, sir. 00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:37.840 Yeah. 00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:40.520 You haven't got rid of me yet. 00:58:40.520 --> 00:58:41.520 Okay. 00:58:41.520 --> 00:58:42.520 Let's see. 00:58:42.520 --> 00:58:43.520 I'm sorry. 00:58:43.520 --> 00:58:44.520 At the top. 00:58:44.520 --> 00:58:45.520 To the left. 00:58:45.520 --> 00:58:46.520 To the left. 00:58:46.520 --> 00:58:47.520 There's a shortcut. 00:58:47.520 --> 00:58:48.520 From the beginning. 00:58:48.520 --> 00:58:49.520 There it is. 00:58:49.520 --> 00:58:50.520 There you go. 00:58:50.520 --> 00:58:51.520 Okay. 00:58:51.520 --> 00:58:52.520 This is a... 00:58:52.520 --> 00:58:53.520 Yeah. 00:58:53.520 --> 00:58:54.520 She has to call the next time. 00:58:54.520 --> 00:58:55.520 Oh, I have to call the next time. 00:58:55.520 --> 00:58:56.520 Sorry. 00:58:56.520 --> 00:58:59.520 Just going to go along with the flow. 00:58:59.520 --> 00:59:07.240 DMC 24-09-019, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding speed cushions. 00:59:07.240 --> 00:59:08.640 The basics. 00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:10.120 Okay. 00:59:10.120 --> 00:59:12.080 Okay. 00:59:12.080 --> 00:59:16.080 So we're going to start with the basics on this too. 00:59:16.080 --> 00:59:20.200 Well, I got ahead of myself. 00:59:20.200 --> 00:59:22.680 So the agenda is big picture. 00:59:22.680 --> 00:59:23.880 Okay. 00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:25.320 What are they? 00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:35.920 What they are not, give you a sample that I'm personally familiar with, emphasize that 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:44.920 speed cushions are not the solve all by themselves, okay, and give you a recommendation, similar 00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:48.160 to the last presentation. 00:59:48.160 --> 00:59:59.000 So we have and are developing our cars to be little cocoons that we can drive around 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:00.000 in. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:01.000 Okay. 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:07.800 We're going to have all these great things, right, to divorce ourselves from our environment 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:12.280 when we're driving, okay. 01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:21.200 Historically, we've also done that with roads, okay, big wide roads, big wide corners, all 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:25.240 this good stuff to divorce ourselves, to make it mindless. 01:00:25.240 --> 01:00:26.240 And guess what? 01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:34.280 Me, you may have driven someplace you didn't intend to drive to because you just got in 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:38.400 the car and you drove to work when you meant to go someplace else. 01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:42.320 Oh, thank God every time. 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:48.440 Well, there's unintended consequences for that, okay. 01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:58.720 When driving is mindless, we end up with an epidemic of fatalities and severe crashes, 01:00:58.720 --> 01:01:00.820 okay. 01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:09.040 And in the last five years, within the city of Denton, we've had 83 fatalities. 01:01:09.040 --> 01:01:11.640 That's on all roads, okay. 01:01:11.640 --> 01:01:16.080 That's TxDOT and our roads, okay. 01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:33.200 22 of those have been pedestrians or cyclists, 67 incapacitating injuries, 262 minor injuries. 01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:39.760 We have other unintended consequences that we can't measure, is a whole lot of folks 01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:46.360 that are afraid to bike, afraid to walk, feel like it's dangerous. 01:01:46.360 --> 01:01:49.840 Sometimes it is, but they feel it. 01:01:49.840 --> 01:01:56.380 They get big, they have heart attacks, yeah. 01:01:56.380 --> 01:01:58.060 We have a quality of life. 01:01:58.060 --> 01:02:06.640 People pull into their car, houses, into their garages, don't say hi to their neighbors. 01:02:06.640 --> 01:02:14.380 We have higher transportation costs because people don't feel comfortable being out there. 01:02:14.380 --> 01:02:23.460 And so when they have to have a car and they will drive because they feel like they have 01:02:23.460 --> 01:02:30.320 to because we haven't made it easier. 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:36.920 Now we're changing this, okay, slowly but surely we're changing this, we're recognizing 01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:45.880 the unintended consequences, but we still have a situation where like this place where 01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:52.400 I actually lived, fun fact, my house is on the right side of that, you know. 01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:58.280 We lived in, I lived in a neighborhood with a narrow street. 01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:01.000 You couldn't pass two cars by each other. 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:06.400 There was kind of wavy roads a little bit. 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:11.280 So we could have, you know, our little safe little cocoon in our house, but then when 01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:17.560 you want to go out on your major road through other people's neighborhoods, guess what, 01:03:17.560 --> 01:03:21.920 you want to go fast, okay. 01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:25.080 That's expected, speed is expected, okay. 01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:33.440 But some of the, some of the other friction with these changes, one in particular that 01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:42.240 you asked about that the city's trying to come to terms with is emergency vehicles, 01:03:42.240 --> 01:03:43.240 okay. 01:03:43.240 --> 01:03:49.280 The fire department is saying that they don't want to be slowed down, right. 01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:54.960 And they, there's risk to their vehicles, right. 01:03:54.960 --> 01:04:00.000 And so, you know, how do we, how do we resolve that, right. 01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:05.640 Well one resolution, one resolution is speed cushions, okay. 01:04:05.640 --> 01:04:07.000 So what are they? 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:16.040 This is the side view, one to 25 to one to 10 slope, three to four inches tall. 01:04:16.040 --> 01:04:23.940 This is the standards, these are the NACTO standards, okay. 01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:33.200 And you have up to five feet of flat spot on the top, okay. 01:04:33.200 --> 01:04:43.520 And if that's not enough compromise on this, you have channels, two channels for fire engines 01:04:43.520 --> 01:04:51.160 and emergency vehicles, so they can, they can go through those channels, so if that's 01:04:51.160 --> 01:04:53.780 an issue, okay. 01:04:53.780 --> 01:05:01.920 And so these, this is from DMERS, they make ambulances, right. 01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:06.160 And these are the wheelbase from the center of each wheel. 01:05:06.160 --> 01:05:19.320 This is, they make three basic types of ambulance and so, and there's a speed cushion on there. 01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:25.840 So that gives you some sense of what a speed cushion is relative to that wheelbase. 01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:29.960 So it's pretty smooth. 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:36.840 But what they are not, they're not a speed bump, they're not even a speed hump. 01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:42.320 And I will tell you also that what you have on, I think it's Greenwood, that's not speed 01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:43.360 hump. 01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:49.960 It does not, it does not look like that. 01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:59.020 It's closer to a speed bump than a speed hump, okay. 01:05:59.020 --> 01:06:05.480 And now I'll give you the sample of what I'm familiar with, as I told you, I came from 01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:08.320 Portland, Oregon. 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:14.600 And what you have here, and I told I wasn't supposed to bring this with me, is you have 01:06:14.600 --> 01:06:25.460 downtown up here, a freeway here, freeway there, freeway here, and when people are coming 01:06:25.460 --> 01:06:34.440 out of the downtown, they come on these arterials, they hit Mount Tabor Park, and they go one 01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:35.440 way or the other. 01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:45.160 Well, many of them chose to go this way, and here's our project right here, okay. 01:06:45.160 --> 01:06:51.520 And this is what it looked like before, pretty fun, I bet, when they went through that. 01:06:51.520 --> 01:06:55.640 And this is what it looks like afterwards, and you can see the channels on there, I'm 01:06:55.640 --> 01:07:00.600 afraid to walk away from the microphone. 01:07:00.600 --> 01:07:01.600 Okay. 01:07:01.600 --> 01:07:06.280 So you see the channels there, and you see how long that is? 01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:07.280 Describe that bottom picture. 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.880 Are we looking at speed bumps? 01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:13.920 You are looking at a speed cushion. 01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:14.920 Oh, a cushion. 01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:15.920 Yes. 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:17.960 Which is smaller than a hump. 01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:18.960 Longer. 01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:27.720 Longer, so from here to here, you know, it's a good distance, okay. 01:07:27.720 --> 01:07:35.720 So you're going over a rise, but you're doing so pretty gradually. 01:07:35.720 --> 01:07:36.720 Okay. 01:07:36.720 --> 01:07:37.720 Okay. 01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:41.600 So that space at the, like, I'm looking at two triangles. 01:07:41.600 --> 01:07:42.600 Yeah. 01:07:42.600 --> 01:07:43.600 And both of those triangles. 01:07:43.600 --> 01:07:47.920 That's a notice for the driver, that's coming up. 01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:56.600 Okay, but the cushion is the width between, you know, from one side, one back side of 01:07:56.600 --> 01:08:01.480 one triangle to the back side of the other triangle, all of that whole space is one big 01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:02.480 cushion. 01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:03.480 Yeah. 01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:09.240 I think they call it a cushion, not because it's all that soft, but because it kind of 01:08:09.240 --> 01:08:16.160 looks like a cushion, you know, between the channel and the beginning, and kind of looks 01:08:16.160 --> 01:08:21.300 like a seat cushion, I guess you could say, maybe a couch cushion. 01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:28.600 It just appears to me as though the cushion is in the middle of the road, and then there's 01:08:28.600 --> 01:08:31.240 some, the regular road is on the outside. 01:08:31.240 --> 01:08:32.240 Oh, no, no, no. 01:08:32.240 --> 01:08:33.240 That's what I'm looking at. 01:08:33.240 --> 01:08:34.240 No, there is cushion here. 01:08:34.240 --> 01:08:35.240 Oh, okay. 01:08:35.240 --> 01:08:36.240 Cushion here. 01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:37.240 Yeah. 01:08:37.240 --> 01:08:38.240 Cushion here. 01:08:38.240 --> 01:08:39.240 Cushion here. 01:08:39.240 --> 01:08:40.240 Oh, okay. 01:08:40.240 --> 01:08:41.240 It just depends. 01:08:41.240 --> 01:08:42.240 So there's four cushions, I guess you could call it. 01:08:42.240 --> 01:08:43.240 Okay. 01:08:43.240 --> 01:08:44.240 Yeah. 01:08:44.240 --> 01:08:45.240 Okay. 01:08:45.240 --> 01:08:50.900 So, but let's look at what the results were. 01:08:50.900 --> 01:09:03.240 So what it did is instead of having some fast people at the very fastest, it scooched that 01:09:03.240 --> 01:09:10.600 down, right, so that everybody was going about the same, much closer to the same speed. 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:13.600 That's what they did. 01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:15.520 Okay. 01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:19.920 So why say this is part of a package? 01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:30.440 It's like the old commercials, you know, the cereal is part of a balanced breakfast, right? 01:09:30.440 --> 01:09:31.560 It's not just the cereal. 01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:35.800 You got to have the orange juice, whatever, okay, to really make it balanced. 01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:41.600 So a speed cushion by itself is not the end all, okay? 01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:43.240 You got to have some enforcement. 01:09:43.240 --> 01:09:45.500 You got to have some education. 01:09:45.500 --> 01:09:49.920 You got to look at other parts of the road and what's going on with that. 01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:57.720 I mean, just down the road from this, they took this, and I'll speak really loudly, this 01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:10.200 really big turn, which people could go very fast, and now you have to go like that, okay? 01:10:10.200 --> 01:10:15.520 So it's part of balanced speed calming. 01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:17.000 Okay. 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:23.440 So here's the recommendations, that we do more research, I know everybody hates that, 01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:27.680 but with other departments, with the fire department, that we're all on the same page, 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:32.240 we all see the same things at the same time, okay? 01:10:32.240 --> 01:10:38.640 Visits to comparable communities, we're not the only ones that's run into this, okay? 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:49.480 Evaluate, replace problematic bumps, okay, replace them with speed cushions, and clarify 01:10:49.480 --> 01:10:51.640 city guidance, okay? 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:56.320 So at that, that's the end of my show. 01:10:56.320 --> 01:10:58.400 Two questions come to mind. 01:10:58.400 --> 01:10:59.400 HOAs. 01:10:59.400 --> 01:11:00.400 Yes. 01:11:00.400 --> 01:11:09.660 And they're independent, whatever it is that they can do, because they will do it, and 01:11:09.660 --> 01:11:15.640 I'm particularly thinking about the Villages of Carmel, is that the name of it? 01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:17.840 It's my neighborhood. 01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:23.960 And then, you mentioned Greenwood, which is, I don't believe that's a HOA community. 01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:33.680 The conversation around, you know, the authority that HOAs have, you know, in this regard, 01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:44.880 speed bumps, cushions, does the city have the authority, what's the level of authority 01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:49.600 in regards to HOAs deciding that they want to put their own speed cushions, bumps, or 01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:50.600 whatever you want to call it. 01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:57.040 I might likely need to get back to you on that, but I would say that if it is in the 01:11:57.040 --> 01:12:02.880 international fire code, I think they probably don't make houses of matches anymore due to 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:06.480 the fire code, and so I suppose we have some authority there. 01:12:06.480 --> 01:12:12.680 We'll just have to have some conversation around HOAs and speed. 01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:15.200 I think those are bumps. 01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:23.840 But I know that there's some narrowing of the roads on a particular road that I'm thinking 01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:31.800 about in a particular community, so that'll have to be, you know, part of the question, 01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:32.800 HOAs. 01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:37.480 Indeed, in the other communities, other parts of the communities don't have HOAs, I can 01:12:37.480 --> 01:12:44.200 just assume that, you know, we're going to, you know, work with those communities to either 01:12:44.200 --> 01:12:49.560 get something different or not have anything at all. 01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:56.440 Obviously we have a problem in neighborhoods, many problems in neighborhoods with speeding, 01:12:56.440 --> 01:12:58.440 what appears to be speeding. 01:12:58.440 --> 01:13:04.600 I know cars, when you're seated on your porch, the cars look like they're going 100 miles 01:13:04.600 --> 01:13:09.400 an hour, but I do understand that, you know, that's all relative, you know, depending on 01:13:09.400 --> 01:13:14.360 whether or not you are in the car, behind the car, or in the car, or you're sitting 01:13:14.360 --> 01:13:18.320 on the porch watching the cars, there's different speeds for that. 01:13:18.320 --> 01:13:24.120 At the risk of sounding like Ferhan, I'll say we should put that in the mobility plan. 01:13:24.120 --> 01:13:26.200 Put that in the mobility plan. 01:13:26.200 --> 01:13:32.600 But you know, it makes sense that streets that are straight and for a long distance 01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:38.800 and wide are more likely to have speeders than those that aren't, because the streets 01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:41.400 tell us how fast we should go. 01:13:41.400 --> 01:13:42.400 Yes. 01:13:42.400 --> 01:13:43.880 Oh, yes, sir. 01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:51.480 I'm just going to say our streets that are public streets, we control and we'll deploy 01:13:51.480 --> 01:13:56.320 whatever traffic calming devices are necessary and not necessarily, not that we're looking 01:13:56.320 --> 01:14:01.480 to do speed cushions, this was just kind of one of those presentations related to speed 01:14:01.480 --> 01:14:07.600 bumps versus speed cushions, not necessarily encouraging the use of, and then HOAs aren't 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:13.640 necessarily allowed to do things, when we talk about private streets versus public streets, 01:14:13.640 --> 01:14:17.560 and if there are streets, then we ultimately control what goes in and doesn't go in. 01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:20.080 Thank you very much for that clarification. 01:14:20.080 --> 01:14:21.080 Thank you. 01:14:21.080 --> 01:14:22.080 Yes, sir. 01:14:22.080 --> 01:14:27.080 I had a couple of follow-ups, so it kind of relates to both the comments. 01:14:27.080 --> 01:14:40.200 Do we have a feel for what are the kinds of speed characteristics that lend themselves 01:14:40.200 --> 01:14:46.600 to different control devices, so like what lends itself to speed cushions? 01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:48.400 Is it long straightaways? 01:14:48.400 --> 01:14:55.480 Is it this use next to that use? 01:14:55.480 --> 01:14:58.040 This is more of an educate me kind of question. 01:14:58.040 --> 01:15:03.120 The answer doesn't have to be now if we don't know it, but I would be interested in knowing 01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:10.800 what the, Google for me if you will, Greg, what's the good characteristics for speed 01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:11.800 cushions? 01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:17.280 This is my first question, and it goes to my second question, which I'll ask in a second, 01:15:17.280 --> 01:15:18.920 which is effectiveness. 01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:26.880 Yeah, I spoke to the effectiveness in the one case, right, but we would look at other 01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:29.480 cases too, right? 01:15:29.480 --> 01:15:36.520 The suggestion is more research, so look at other cases, but in the one case I presented, 01:15:36.520 --> 01:15:38.520 it did have a discernible and- 01:15:38.520 --> 01:15:40.400 It's about a minus six, as I recall. 01:15:40.400 --> 01:15:41.400 What? 01:15:41.400 --> 01:15:43.440 It was about a minus six miles per hour. 01:15:43.440 --> 01:15:53.120 Right, but that by itself may not seem significant, but when you think about everybody going together, 01:15:53.120 --> 01:15:55.920 this is not in peak. 01:15:55.920 --> 01:16:05.280 85th percentile is, that's 85th, well, I'm going too technical. 01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:11.800 Okay, basically it's not during congestion periods. 01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:15.480 This is in the middle of the day, okay? 01:16:15.480 --> 01:16:23.080 The point is it is having a real effect on keeping everybody at about the same pace, 01:16:23.080 --> 01:16:31.600 and that's actually more important than it is the actual six. 01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:37.680 The compression you mean, yeah, no, I got you. 01:16:37.680 --> 01:16:41.320 Yeah, I'd be interested in both those. 01:16:41.320 --> 01:16:47.200 Just the general description of the characteristics and then general effectiveness of these, because 01:16:47.200 --> 01:16:56.120 there has, the community has been communicating with us and council in general about, we want 01:16:56.120 --> 01:17:05.560 speed control devices, and I've passed that along to your colleagues over the years, but 01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:10.760 lots of road diets, lots of striping, lots of everything to get to the speed studies 01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:16.280 that we just finished and make them effective instead of dangerous. 01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:24.040 I would probably advocate for, I mean, to really again include that in the mobility 01:17:24.040 --> 01:17:35.060 study because so they can be done on a more uniform method, right, is there are characteristics 01:17:35.060 --> 01:17:38.560 of streets that lend themselves to speeding. 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:46.840 Well, and speaking of that, then my last question is there's been some interest, and I don't 01:17:46.840 --> 01:17:55.480 know again the validity of this, but about raised crosswalks, and so the previous talk 01:17:55.480 --> 01:18:04.200 and this talk, what is the potential interaction with raised crosswalks versus speed cushions 01:18:04.200 --> 01:18:09.320 and the interoperability of those, and can they be the same thing, or they really can't 01:18:09.320 --> 01:18:13.800 because there's a channel in there, so you can't really do that. 01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:20.160 So I'd be interested in that interplay, because there's some advantages to raised crosswalks, 01:18:20.160 --> 01:18:27.280 but then how does that play in this whole public safety, EMS argument at those kinds 01:18:27.280 --> 01:18:28.280 of intersections? 01:18:28.280 --> 01:18:35.280 Exactly, yes. 01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:42.640 Do you think that in terms of a broader strategy for traffic calming, does it make more sense 01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:47.160 to sort of put that within this mobility study we're talking about, or does it make more 01:18:47.160 --> 01:18:51.480 sense to kind of lump that into Vision Zero or maybe some sort of freestanding thing, 01:18:51.480 --> 01:18:57.400 because definitely I support us having it like a broader criteria strategy application 01:18:57.400 --> 01:19:02.000 so that we're doing traffic calming in a way that's effective, so where are people 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:07.600 getting injured especially, but also that's equitable, so it's not just whoever yells 01:19:07.600 --> 01:19:09.840 aloud us gets traffic calming. 01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:20.320 I'm, just because some of these studies predate, so I wanted to make sure that, basically yes, 01:19:20.320 --> 01:19:26.320 Vision Zero would be addressing a lot of things related to speeds and traffic calming, in 01:19:26.320 --> 01:19:32.000 a way complete speed as well, and then we are, I mean for that matter we'll have to 01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:36.560 coordinate with a lot of stakeholders, but by functional classification we'll have to 01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:42.920 look into how, what measures we will take to look at speeds as part of Vision Zero, 01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:45.960 and maybe mobility, shared mobility study as well. 01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:53.680 Yeah, Vision Zero is going to, as I understand it, cover, and this is nationally, okay, covers 01:19:53.680 --> 01:20:04.960 the high injury network, okay so there's specific places, and also systemic fixes, okay, so that 01:20:04.960 --> 01:20:11.720 could fall into the systemic, and I'm using a big word, so, okay. 01:20:11.720 --> 01:20:18.760 Okay, any other questions on that, oh yes, we have one question. 01:20:18.760 --> 01:20:23.600 Yeah, I just, just to kind of put in for a little more emphasis for all the staff, is 01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:29.820 I, I think that you're hearing from many folks, and I, and I don't think there's any resistance 01:20:29.820 --> 01:20:37.200 to this, but the, the, the status quo of sort of being in a, in a standoff of, of, of safety 01:20:37.200 --> 01:20:43.480 versus EMS safety, and those are valid safety concerns, but we, we, we can't sit in that 01:20:43.480 --> 01:20:49.960 Mexican standoff, we've got to find an alternative that, that allows both sets of criteria to 01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:55.240 go forward, and, and no, nobody wants somebody, some patient in an ambulance hurt, but at 01:20:55.240 --> 01:20:59.800 the same token, we've, we've got to find some, some ways to kind of find a middle ground, 01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:02.800 or not even a middle ground, an alternative. 01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:08.760 That's why I'm proposing or recommending this, that we find out together, make sure that 01:21:08.760 --> 01:21:11.000 we're talking about the same thing. 01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:16.280 I don't think we're talking, when we say speed cushion, we're talking about speed cushions 01:21:16.280 --> 01:21:20.100 by the definition, by the actual definition. 01:21:20.100 --> 01:21:21.100 Okay. 01:21:21.100 --> 01:21:22.100 Nope. 01:21:22.100 --> 01:21:23.100 Okay. 01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:24.100 I cost it. 01:21:24.100 --> 01:21:25.100 No, no, I just remembered. 01:21:25.100 --> 01:21:26.100 I'm sorry. 01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:27.100 That's okay, go ahead. 01:21:27.100 --> 01:21:28.100 Okay. 01:21:28.100 --> 01:21:31.800 I just remembered, I recently was biking through somewhere that's not Denton. 01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:35.760 I think it was Highland Village, and there was a connection, an on-street connection 01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:40.160 between a trail and maybe another trail, and I saw all sorts of traffic calming, so I took 01:21:40.160 --> 01:21:41.160 photos. 01:21:41.160 --> 01:21:42.840 I'm going to go find the photos, figure out where that was. 01:21:42.840 --> 01:21:46.200 If it was Highland Village, it might be useful to go look at, because they're real close 01:21:46.200 --> 01:21:47.200 to here. 01:21:47.200 --> 01:21:48.200 Excellent. 01:21:48.200 --> 01:21:49.200 Excellent. 01:21:49.200 --> 01:21:50.200 And you'll send those directly to... 01:21:50.200 --> 01:21:51.200 Yes. 01:21:51.200 --> 01:21:56.800 By the way, speed cushions aren't just for emergency vehicles, bikes. 01:21:56.800 --> 01:21:59.180 I have a question. 01:21:59.180 --> 01:22:06.760 A speed cushion, when we decide to use a speed cushion, will that speed cushion extend over 01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:07.960 to the bike lane? 01:22:07.960 --> 01:22:12.520 I mean, does it go through the entirety of the street? 01:22:12.520 --> 01:22:13.520 Right. 01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:16.480 And we have a channel for bikes as well. 01:22:16.480 --> 01:22:17.480 Okay. 01:22:17.480 --> 01:22:18.480 Yeah. 01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:21.880 And then the other thing before you leave, I'm thinking about bike racks. 01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:23.960 I did write a question here. 01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:31.060 You had mentioned something about the possibility of bike racks being at the end of a street, 01:22:31.060 --> 01:22:32.060 you know, at the corners. 01:22:32.060 --> 01:22:33.060 Oh, yeah. 01:22:33.060 --> 01:22:35.760 Corners, driveways, too. 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:43.080 And so connecting that with large vehicles like a fire truck that need to wheel and turn 01:22:43.080 --> 01:22:45.700 into a corner. 01:22:45.700 --> 01:22:52.280 Something like that, is that a trauma piece for that emergency vehicle that got a lot 01:22:52.280 --> 01:22:55.960 of bikes over there on the corner and the truck is trying to wheel in? 01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:56.960 Right. 01:22:56.960 --> 01:23:01.480 That's a really good point, and it is something that you need to address on a case-by-case 01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:02.480 basis. 01:23:02.480 --> 01:23:03.480 Okay. 01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:05.640 Depending on the width and the size of your lens. 01:23:05.640 --> 01:23:06.640 Yeah. 01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:07.640 Yeah. 01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:08.640 All right. 01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:09.640 Well, thank you very much. 01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:10.640 We appreciate it. 01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:11.640 If you don't have anything else, we'll move on. 01:23:11.640 --> 01:23:12.640 Appreciate it. 01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:13.640 We're good? 01:23:13.640 --> 01:23:14.640 Okay. 01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:15.640 I'm not going away. 01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:16.640 Okay. 01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:17.640 Thank you. 01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:18.640 Thank you for being here. 01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:19.640 I'm looking forward to going to Portland. 01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:26.400 I think that's going to be my next travel agenda to see what's going on there. 01:23:26.400 --> 01:23:34.240 We're going to move on to EMC 24-020, staff memorandum. 01:23:34.240 --> 01:23:41.880 Oh, I think we were waiting for a staff. 01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:47.160 Who's going to ... Are we going to go ... Eagle Drive update? 01:23:47.160 --> 01:23:48.720 We got updates on Eagle Drive. 01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:51.640 What's happening on Eagle Drive? 01:23:51.640 --> 01:23:52.640 We've seen the construction. 01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:53.640 It was smooth. 01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:54.640 Last time I went on it. 01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:55.640 Well, just for the confusion. 01:23:55.640 --> 01:23:56.640 I was waiting for an introduction. 01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:58.640 Ethan Cox, Director of Streets. 01:23:58.640 --> 01:24:01.320 We have been coordinating with TxDOT. 01:24:01.320 --> 01:24:06.280 What we found as a result of the road buckling out there was it was drainage infrastructure 01:24:06.280 --> 01:24:08.840 that had a fair amount of debris. 01:24:08.840 --> 01:24:16.120 We have concerns that maybe folks were living in the culvert, mattresses, bicycles, ladders, 01:24:16.120 --> 01:24:21.680 a lawnmower, so TxDOT coordinated with a contractor to winch out all of the debris. 01:24:21.680 --> 01:24:25.380 There's about 20 feet of debris wedged underneath there. 01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:30.120 That was cleared earlier this week, and so the intersection should be open to traffic 01:24:30.120 --> 01:24:31.120 from here on out. 01:24:31.120 --> 01:24:35.920 I believe the question last time was, "Does the city bear any financial responsibility?" 01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:37.280 The answer to that's no. 01:24:37.280 --> 01:24:40.960 Both the drainage infrastructure as well as the roadway, right-of-way, all of that is 01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:41.960 TxDOT facilities. 01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:44.640 They handled it from beginning to end. 01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:45.640 Okay. 01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:46.640 Questions? 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:48.920 Well, we're all so happy. 01:24:48.920 --> 01:24:49.920 Absolutely. 01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:50.920 Thank you. 01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:53.800 Just beyond what you can imagine. 01:24:53.800 --> 01:24:54.800 Thank you. 01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:57.080 Traffic calming measures on Greenwood Street. 01:24:57.080 --> 01:25:00.760 What's happening over there? 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:07.440 Good morning, Chandra with Transportation Services. 01:25:07.440 --> 01:25:14.160 So we did have a question in the last meeting to find out about the speed cushions or speed 01:25:14.160 --> 01:25:16.760 humps that's on Greenwood. 01:25:16.760 --> 01:25:20.920 Our current policy as per the transportation criteria manual, it will be removed when the 01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:26.360 street is overlaid or micro sealed or reconstructed. 01:25:26.360 --> 01:25:31.920 And unless if it's on a primary route, we have to consult with fire to remove or put 01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:37.160 it back if the citizen issues of speeding or anything that comes back to us. 01:25:37.160 --> 01:25:38.160 So... 01:25:38.160 --> 01:25:40.040 Do you have a time frame on that? 01:25:40.040 --> 01:25:44.840 It depends on when the streets department goes for or if it's under their plan to do 01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:51.000 over seal or overlay or micro seal or reconstruct, then it will be removed. 01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:52.000 Okay. 01:25:52.000 --> 01:25:53.000 Yeah. 01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:54.000 All right. 01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:55.000 You have a question? 01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:56.000 Yeah. 01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:57.000 Okay. 01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:05.760 So because we're micro sealing it, it becomes an opportunity to remove it and staff are 01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:07.040 likely to remove it? 01:26:07.040 --> 01:26:08.040 Is that what I'm hearing? 01:26:08.040 --> 01:26:09.040 Yes. 01:26:09.040 --> 01:26:10.040 Okay. 01:26:10.040 --> 01:26:11.040 Okay. 01:26:11.040 --> 01:26:13.520 I just want to make sure I understood the order of events. 01:26:13.520 --> 01:26:14.520 Thank you. 01:26:14.520 --> 01:26:15.520 Okay. 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:17.040 And so does something like this go to the community? 01:26:17.040 --> 01:26:23.000 Do you all connect with the community and say, "Community, we're going to be removing 01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:24.940 your speed humps." 01:26:24.940 --> 01:26:28.560 If you want, we could update you back in those... 01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:34.240 We don't have several of these devices only on select streets over the time that was put 01:26:34.240 --> 01:26:35.240 in. 01:26:35.240 --> 01:26:36.240 Okay. 01:26:36.240 --> 01:26:38.400 But if you want, we could provide you an update for you or... 01:26:38.400 --> 01:26:39.400 That would be great. 01:26:39.400 --> 01:26:40.400 Okay. 01:26:40.400 --> 01:26:41.400 I appreciate that. 01:26:41.400 --> 01:26:46.740 Background information on stakeholders for safety and mobility. 01:26:46.740 --> 01:26:47.920 I know we have all of that. 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:51.000 We have speed humps. 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:55.400 We have the fire department, all of that, all that goes together. 01:26:55.400 --> 01:26:58.040 This is just for the folks that are out there. 01:26:58.040 --> 01:26:59.040 Okay. 01:26:59.040 --> 01:27:00.040 Anything else we need to know in this regard? 01:27:00.040 --> 01:27:03.040 Stands on fire, marshal, transportation, design. 01:27:03.040 --> 01:27:04.040 Okay. 01:27:04.040 --> 01:27:05.040 Well, it sounds like we're doing good. 01:27:05.040 --> 01:27:09.240 We've got a chance to take a look at that just for the community. 01:27:09.240 --> 01:27:13.160 We've received this information ahead of time, got a chance to take a look at that. 01:27:13.160 --> 01:27:16.980 Just wanted to give you an opportunity to speak on that. 01:27:16.980 --> 01:27:20.680 So we have some attachments. 01:27:20.680 --> 01:27:21.680 Here is the... 01:27:21.680 --> 01:27:22.680 Back. 01:27:22.680 --> 01:27:23.680 That's the way we need to look at it. 01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:24.680 Can we... 01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:25.680 Who's going through that? 01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:26.680 There was one more thing. 01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:27.680 Oh, you have one more thing. 01:27:27.680 --> 01:27:28.680 Oh, there's one more thing on that document. 01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:29.680 What? 01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:30.680 Right down here? 01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:31.680 Yeah, that... 01:27:31.680 --> 01:27:32.680 That's right. 01:27:32.680 --> 01:27:33.680 The numbers there. 01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:44.280 Oh, we can have someone come and talk to us about the index of cost of crash fatalities 01:27:44.280 --> 01:27:46.680 and serious injuries. 01:27:46.680 --> 01:27:55.800 This cost index is provided by... 01:27:55.800 --> 01:28:02.440 Is developed by TextDOT and is a typical... 01:28:02.440 --> 01:28:07.520 It's not rooting from a federal document or federal standard because they have not updated 01:28:07.520 --> 01:28:08.520 that yet. 01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:10.280 They still have in 2019. 01:28:10.280 --> 01:28:13.120 So this is the latest that we have from TextDOT. 01:28:13.120 --> 01:28:21.200 And apparently, the cost of fatality, crash fatalities and severe incapacitating injuries, 01:28:21.200 --> 01:28:23.360 they are pretty much same. 01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:27.120 And then it boils down to a large number. 01:28:27.120 --> 01:28:35.680 If we go into the aggregate level estimates, it reaches beyond, I would say, the cost could 01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:44.000 go in more than close to a billion dollar if we aggregate total costs. 01:28:44.000 --> 01:28:46.000 If you have any questions, I can address. 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:47.000 Yes, ma'am? 01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:48.640 I have a comment. 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:49.640 When I saw these numbers... 01:28:49.640 --> 01:28:54.400 So I've seen the 2019 federal numbers and every year I go look up on the TextDOT crash 01:28:54.400 --> 01:28:59.280 database, I'll go pull all of our crashes, fatalities, all that and add those up. 01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:01.360 So I like to add things up when I see these. 01:29:01.360 --> 01:29:06.720 So when I saw this this morning, I went to the TextDOT crash database and I pulled the 01:29:06.720 --> 01:29:14.080 number of fatal crashes, incapacitating injuries and not incapacitating for Denton in 2023. 01:29:14.080 --> 01:29:15.920 And I added it all up. 01:29:15.920 --> 01:29:20.400 And this doesn't include just crashes, which cost people money, too, even if they're not 01:29:20.400 --> 01:29:21.400 injured. 01:29:21.400 --> 01:29:28.160 So just including injuries, it was in 2023 in the city of Denton was 518 million. 01:29:28.160 --> 01:29:33.760 So almost a half billion dollars, or actually more than a half billion dollars in injuries 01:29:33.760 --> 01:29:35.180 every year that we're having in Denton. 01:29:35.180 --> 01:29:37.160 So that does not include fatalities. 01:29:37.160 --> 01:29:39.240 Oh, I included fatalities in that. 01:29:39.240 --> 01:29:40.240 You did include fatalities. 01:29:40.240 --> 01:29:41.240 Yeah. 01:29:41.240 --> 01:29:42.240 So that's just these three. 01:29:42.240 --> 01:29:45.600 That does not include just crashes or maybe nobody was injured. 01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:48.040 So half a billion every single year. 01:29:48.040 --> 01:29:57.160 So in this minor differentiating factor is welfare costs later on, the community costs. 01:29:57.160 --> 01:30:02.320 So that's why I said a billion dollars, roughly, because when I look into aggregate cost levels, 01:30:02.320 --> 01:30:04.720 this is what it entails. 01:30:04.720 --> 01:30:05.720 Right. 01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:09.540 But I mean, just that basically I'm low balling it there. 01:30:09.540 --> 01:30:13.440 So if you take that number and you assume we're a population of one hundred and fifty 01:30:13.440 --> 01:30:16.360 thousand, I don't know what our estimates are at this point. 01:30:16.360 --> 01:30:20.760 So I did one hundred and fifty because I wasn't sure. 01:30:20.760 --> 01:30:25.840 So that's about three thousand five hundred dollars per Denton resident annually. 01:30:25.840 --> 01:30:29.520 So then I said, OK, so we often look at the cost of congestion. 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:36.120 And I found in twenty twenty three a study from INRIX looked at DFW drivers. 01:30:36.120 --> 01:30:41.760 And so they're being through congestion or paying about nine hundred fifty three or nine 01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:46.920 hundred fifty three dollars annually versus injuries just in city of Denton. 01:30:46.920 --> 01:30:51.640 We're looking at thirty five hundred dollars per person annually. 01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:56.920 And so we're putting a lot of money towards fixing congestion when really we're losing 01:30:56.920 --> 01:31:02.080 more costs to injuries and traffic crashes than we are to lost time and congestion. 01:31:02.080 --> 01:31:06.000 We're losing a lot more money to injuries than lost time and congestion, but more of 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:10.080 our money is going towards fixing congestion, not reducing injuries. 01:31:10.080 --> 01:31:12.240 I just kind of wanted to make that point. 01:31:12.240 --> 01:31:16.200 It seems like they're all wanting the same, though. 01:31:16.200 --> 01:31:25.120 I mean, the congestion seems like it contributes to the injury in the simplest term. 01:31:25.120 --> 01:31:32.320 So we've got to relieve ourselves of the type of congestion that leads to these injuries 01:31:32.320 --> 01:31:40.620 or are these injuries just across the board on a variety of type of of roads and typically 01:31:40.620 --> 01:31:49.360 typically, you know, traffic condition would drive to get into fender benders because of 01:31:49.360 --> 01:31:52.680 the condition, because of slower speed, relatively slow speeds. 01:31:52.680 --> 01:32:00.600 And these fatalities and serious incapacitating injuries are high impact, high velocity locations 01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:03.640 and usually off peak hours. 01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:10.840 You know, within our city, we don't have many spaces that we can do. 01:32:10.840 --> 01:32:14.800 I mean, I don't know what the speed rate is that's considered high speed. 01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:19.960 I don't know if it's 40 miles per hour is considered the high speed where you get the 01:32:19.960 --> 01:32:21.600 numbers wrong. 01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:28.520 But most of our high speed areas are not even city roads. 01:32:28.520 --> 01:32:35.320 They're county, oh, they're county and state roads, are we are we at those numbers are 01:32:35.320 --> 01:32:36.320 adding up? 01:32:36.320 --> 01:32:37.320 Please. 01:32:37.320 --> 01:32:43.600 Well, I think I think to Susie's point, and again, so we don't get too far off track here. 01:32:43.600 --> 01:32:47.760 When we're going through the Vision Zero piece, that's exactly why we're doing that. 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:53.320 So we're going to look at how it is that we reduce injuries, fatalities, accidents. 01:32:53.320 --> 01:32:56.540 And so this will all be part of that. 01:32:56.540 --> 01:33:01.360 So appreciate the information know that we are working to really to focus our efforts 01:33:01.360 --> 01:33:04.760 on how we reduce all of those types of things. 01:33:04.760 --> 01:33:09.240 Again, transportation services will be highly focused on all of the things we've talked 01:33:09.240 --> 01:33:12.640 about here today and to continue to make those improvements. 01:33:12.640 --> 01:33:13.640 Okay. 01:33:13.640 --> 01:33:14.640 Okay. 01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:16.760 Thank you, sir. 01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:20.680 And then we'll go to future items for mobility committee meeting. 01:33:20.680 --> 01:33:30.920 We have any, any cleanups anything you want to take off the list, but on the list. 01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:35.760 Talk about bike racks, bollards. 01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:43.000 I'm particularly concerned about bollards, but you know, it's not a it's not an emergency 01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:44.000 concern. 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:45.000 Yes, sir. 01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:46.440 No, I was fine with that. 01:33:46.440 --> 01:33:51.720 But I was going to ask, you know, we had the bike rack, sort of basics. 01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:57.280 So I'm okay with removing that, but I would like, you know, and I don't think there's 01:33:57.280 --> 01:34:05.440 generally any barriers for something coming back, but as we get more, I don't want there 01:34:05.440 --> 01:34:10.400 to be any barriers to having that reporting coming back as you know, as these initiatives 01:34:10.400 --> 01:34:13.920 move forward, I don't expect there would be any barriers. 01:34:13.920 --> 01:34:17.800 So I feel like, you know, yeah, we probably can't take that one off. 01:34:17.800 --> 01:34:24.600 But I just want to make sure that for for that one in particular, just because there's 01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:30.360 more information expected that, you know, we encourage that information in the future. 01:34:30.360 --> 01:34:31.600 And again, the same with speed cushions. 01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:34.560 I think the other one is, is pretty much done. 01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:38.600 Speed cushions and bike racks. 01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:41.240 Anything else for you? 01:34:41.240 --> 01:34:44.800 In terms of just taking stuff off in terms of taking things off there, we can look at 01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:47.300 their recommendations. 01:34:47.300 --> 01:34:53.440 So we're talking about number six, taking off number four, taking off, we've heard from 01:34:53.440 --> 01:34:59.040 all of that in the number one, that's going to leave our bollards are cross concerns between 01:34:59.040 --> 01:35:05.040 Ryan high and dollar general traffic calming measures on green with that one might be able 01:35:05.040 --> 01:35:07.520 to be taken off as well, right? 01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:11.840 Talked about that a little bit, are you all okay with removing that? 01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:19.720 Greenwood Greenwood number four, I mean, number five, they've given us, they've updated us 01:35:19.720 --> 01:35:25.720 this take off number five, and then we'll go to citywide downtown parking study that's 01:35:25.720 --> 01:35:35.280 gonna stay quarterly construction report that's gonna stay DCT a presentation we looking looking 01:35:35.280 --> 01:35:41.960 forward to the DCT a presentation, is that going to be presented to us at the city council 01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:45.840 meeting or is it, are they coming here to the mobility committee. 01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:51.440 How are you all scheduling us, oh, they're gonna come here. 01:35:51.440 --> 01:35:58.520 And then we have the quarterly transportation services division report from a CMO office 01:35:58.520 --> 01:36:00.520 that's just kind of stays on. 01:36:00.520 --> 01:36:08.200 So what do you all think about the removal of their recommendation to remove the good 01:36:08.200 --> 01:36:09.200 question. 01:36:09.200 --> 01:36:10.200 We got a question. 01:36:10.200 --> 01:36:14.640 Did we need to act on so we received recommendations on two presentations today did we need to 01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:17.480 act on those like a motion or. 01:36:17.480 --> 01:36:18.480 No. 01:36:18.480 --> 01:36:23.240 Okay, this information, just information should separate information only. 01:36:23.240 --> 01:36:29.040 Yes, can this committee provide, I'm like, this is a legitimate question counsel is direction 01:36:29.040 --> 01:36:30.040 versus votes. 01:36:30.040 --> 01:36:38.120 I don't know about the role of this committee, directions versus actual action items can 01:36:38.120 --> 01:36:46.000 can someone speak to that whether we should provide direction, because there wasn't really 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:47.240 a vote asked for. 01:36:47.240 --> 01:36:56.960 I'm not trying to get us bound up I'm just trying to make sure we do it properly. 01:36:56.960 --> 01:37:04.160 I guess, to that question, the posting would govern an action item if, if it was posted 01:37:04.160 --> 01:37:10.200 as such to take an action if you wanted to maybe propose an action. 01:37:10.200 --> 01:37:16.760 I think you can not on this I'm not I'm not saying the posting would govern that that's 01:37:16.760 --> 01:37:17.760 my answer. 01:37:17.760 --> 01:37:20.160 Okay, that's what I'm not saying this post. 01:37:20.160 --> 01:37:24.640 I'm saying the posting would govern any action that you would take. 01:37:24.640 --> 01:37:31.240 So in this case, if I could restate a little bit, because that those prior items were not 01:37:31.240 --> 01:37:36.760 posted for action if we wanted to take action and provide some sort of direction now in 01:37:36.760 --> 01:37:43.080 the matrix or in the next section, concluding items either one of those locations would 01:37:43.080 --> 01:37:47.760 be the time to do that. 01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:54.720 Depending on the topic I think the topic which is state what you want to happen, and then 01:37:54.720 --> 01:37:58.800 the board would take it up and up or down voted up or down. 01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:03.760 If I'm actually, did you I'm sorry I'm taking the chair's role I was just saying that her, 01:38:03.760 --> 01:38:08.040 I was following up from Susie and that was a, if you if you have particular actions you 01:38:08.040 --> 01:38:12.120 want to take them, let's, let's do a recommendation. 01:38:12.120 --> 01:38:16.040 Did y'all did y'all want to take action on any of them. 01:38:16.040 --> 01:38:21.080 I don't know if they were necessarily actionable items in terms of the recommendations, but 01:38:21.080 --> 01:38:25.020 I guess, let me just, I guess, clean it up. 01:38:25.020 --> 01:38:29.000 It would be a future in this, in this, in this instance, you would be adding something 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:37.480 to the agenda item, or you're asking staff to add it for a future agenda to do something. 01:38:37.480 --> 01:38:38.480 And do we want to do that. 01:38:38.480 --> 01:38:46.680 But, and I guess, in this instance, like, the way that we run it from here is, you say 01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:50.280 what you want to do and take it. 01:38:50.280 --> 01:38:52.920 So that's how it runs. 01:38:52.920 --> 01:38:57.760 And just to throw another piece in this and I think what Susie was asking and I'm not 01:38:57.760 --> 01:39:02.260 speaking on your behalf I just think I understood it this way. 01:39:02.260 --> 01:39:06.780 This was not crafted for any action to be taken by this body. 01:39:06.780 --> 01:39:14.000 So we were providing the information did hear at least a recommendation for the four items 01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:20.720 to be removed from the matrix, with the exception on item number one to continue to report back 01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:25.380 was the ask, which again would be appropriate in concluding items that we continue to report 01:39:25.380 --> 01:39:28.440 back on the bike rack initiative. 01:39:28.440 --> 01:39:33.240 Staffs going to continue to work through that as part of this report will be coming back 01:39:33.240 --> 01:39:38.600 with other thoughts ideas recommendations through some of the strategies that that transportation 01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:40.240 services working for. 01:39:40.240 --> 01:39:44.640 So because they're removed from the matrix doesn't mean that we're done doing any work 01:39:44.640 --> 01:39:47.120 there we're going to continue to work and report back. 01:39:47.120 --> 01:39:51.560 So non action items on the agenda. 01:39:51.560 --> 01:39:57.840 The motion or what I heard was, you know, the recommendation to follow staffs request 01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:02.520 to remove these items from the matrix, and then the one added which was number five of 01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:05.120 use of tracking copying measures to be removed. 01:40:05.120 --> 01:40:07.600 So did that help, Susie? 01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:09.040 Is that accurate? 01:40:09.040 --> 01:40:13.600 So the recommendations we received into presentations today will just sort of happen. 01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:16.640 Is that kind of we're going to continue we're going to continue to work through that. 01:40:16.640 --> 01:40:17.640 Absolutely. 01:40:17.640 --> 01:40:18.640 So no action needed. 01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:19.640 No action. 01:40:19.640 --> 01:40:20.640 Okay. 01:40:20.640 --> 01:40:21.640 Good. 01:40:21.640 --> 01:40:22.640 Thank you. 01:40:22.640 --> 01:40:26.600 They're going to come back to us when it's time for us to be incorporated like the color 01:40:26.600 --> 01:40:29.080 of the bike rack. 01:40:29.080 --> 01:40:30.080 Correct. 01:40:30.080 --> 01:40:31.080 Correct. 01:40:31.080 --> 01:40:33.960 We're going to we're going to be making recommendations. 01:40:33.960 --> 01:40:38.840 So today was not the thing to say for us to determine a color, but it may be contact sensitive. 01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:41.120 So you heard the term contact sensitive, right. 01:40:41.120 --> 01:40:44.720 And then you also heard that a business owner may want to have something different. 01:40:44.720 --> 01:40:49.200 So we'll come back with whatever our recommendations would be just to kind of edit through here 01:40:49.200 --> 01:40:54.380 and some of this may have to go up through into council, whatever it is that we may create. 01:40:54.380 --> 01:40:55.820 So don't know what that is. 01:40:55.820 --> 01:40:58.680 As of now, we'll continue report back. 01:40:58.680 --> 01:41:06.160 And you know, with that being said, the quality DCTA presentation to the committee, you know, 01:41:06.160 --> 01:41:10.360 at some point, they were coming to us routinely. 01:41:10.360 --> 01:41:14.960 And then it was moved that they would go to directly to the council. 01:41:14.960 --> 01:41:19.320 And now I'm noticed recognizing that it's back here. 01:41:19.320 --> 01:41:25.720 So for them to come back and address us, that is where the this is where this question comes 01:41:25.720 --> 01:41:34.800 in as to if we would like the city to work with DCTA on a particular thing or item or 01:41:34.800 --> 01:41:41.520 an action item that will come here and then it has to go back to the to the council for 01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:51.040 approval or do they work directly from here with us and then report back to us rather 01:41:51.040 --> 01:41:52.040 than council. 01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:58.480 So how are you all doing, how are you all working with DCTA for months because it was 01:41:58.480 --> 01:41:59.480 here. 01:41:59.480 --> 01:42:00.480 Then it wasn't here. 01:42:00.480 --> 01:42:01.480 Oh, sorry. 01:42:01.480 --> 01:42:02.480 And now it's back. 01:42:02.480 --> 01:42:03.480 We're not. 01:42:03.480 --> 01:42:04.480 We're not for that. 01:42:04.480 --> 01:42:05.480 Okay. 01:42:05.480 --> 01:42:06.480 We're not posted for that. 01:42:06.480 --> 01:42:08.680 So that is what is in the atmosphere right now. 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:09.680 It's in the universe. 01:42:09.680 --> 01:42:17.720 I put it out there, but it says quarterly DCTA presentation to the committee. 01:42:17.720 --> 01:42:22.880 Well, that we have so we have we have what it is that these are items of interest for 01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:27.160 future staff report updates, agenda item presentation. 01:42:27.160 --> 01:42:33.720 So this is going to occur and it's coming to you on July 31st. 01:42:33.720 --> 01:42:34.720 Right. 01:42:34.720 --> 01:42:36.200 And so that's what's going to happen. 01:42:36.200 --> 01:42:41.160 If there's interest to add something, then that's this is the time to if you're going 01:42:41.160 --> 01:42:43.440 to add something or ask staff to do something. 01:42:43.440 --> 01:42:50.880 But otherwise we're not we're not changing or creating what hierarchy DCTA reports to 01:42:50.880 --> 01:42:52.480 the city. 01:42:52.480 --> 01:42:57.080 So is that is that where we come down here to concluding items and that's something that 01:42:57.080 --> 01:43:02.480 I can put in there as if there is an ask of this committee of staff, then staff can come 01:43:02.480 --> 01:43:05.400 back to you and present. 01:43:05.400 --> 01:43:09.400 What do you all think about that DCTA presenting? 01:43:09.400 --> 01:43:14.960 I know it's not am I missing up when I ask these what do we want to do in that regard? 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:22.160 I think or I just think you need to just ask staff to present what the process is. 01:43:22.160 --> 01:43:23.160 Is that the question? 01:43:23.160 --> 01:43:24.160 Yeah, we is. 01:43:24.160 --> 01:43:25.160 That's the question. 01:43:25.160 --> 01:43:26.160 I think what is the process? 01:43:26.160 --> 01:43:33.320 That's what we want to ask or discussion on that discussion on DCTA reporting to Mobility 01:43:33.320 --> 01:43:41.680 Committee and Council or Mobility Committee or Council. 01:43:41.680 --> 01:43:45.680 That's that's the clarification I need. 01:43:45.680 --> 01:43:48.560 Yes, I would like to go first on this one. 01:43:48.560 --> 01:43:49.560 Thank you. 01:43:49.560 --> 01:43:56.400 As as a non council member on this committee, I am okay with it just being City Council. 01:43:56.400 --> 01:43:59.120 Otherwise it's kind of redundant for both of I'm sorry. 01:43:59.120 --> 01:44:02.120 So the discussion on this is there's not okay. 01:44:02.120 --> 01:44:07.360 There's no discussion on the contents of what's happening. 01:44:07.360 --> 01:44:12.400 What you're asking for is information to come back the next time so it can be posted and 01:44:12.400 --> 01:44:13.400 then be discussed. 01:44:13.400 --> 01:44:15.720 Okay, that's what we need. 01:44:15.720 --> 01:44:21.480 And let me add one piece in Cassie has asked that this come before this body. 01:44:21.480 --> 01:44:22.800 That's why they're presenting here. 01:44:22.800 --> 01:44:29.800 So I don't know and probably at that meeting after it's presented, you can have that conversation 01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:34.320 if need be so and certainly you can visit with Cassie offline. 01:44:34.320 --> 01:44:37.480 So, so I think I can solve this. 01:44:37.480 --> 01:44:38.480 Okay. 01:44:38.480 --> 01:44:41.880 You know, I'm channeling my inner Paul Meltzer on that one. 01:44:41.880 --> 01:44:47.560 So how about an action item that can be incorporated with the current one or a separate one. 01:44:47.560 --> 01:45:01.000 I'm requesting that the process by which the CTA information is presented to the city oversight 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:06.800 boards is addressed in some future meeting and it can be this one. 01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:10.760 I will say as part as part of this staff will make sure that we're incorporating we don't 01:45:10.760 --> 01:45:12.080 need to add an item. 01:45:12.080 --> 01:45:19.320 So that duly duly noted not go back to that I think we have the four items that the four 01:45:19.320 --> 01:45:21.640 items that were requested to be removed. 01:45:21.640 --> 01:45:24.280 I don't know that we finalized whether that was going to occur. 01:45:24.280 --> 01:45:28.720 So just to take us back to center of where we started this yet for items that you were 01:45:28.720 --> 01:45:30.040 looking to be removed. 01:45:30.040 --> 01:45:36.640 I know that that you know Brian Beck had provided the indication that he was supportive. 01:45:36.640 --> 01:45:39.760 I just don't know that you concluded that we're supportive. 01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:40.760 Okay. 01:45:40.760 --> 01:45:41.760 Thank you. 01:45:41.760 --> 01:45:42.760 Okay. 01:45:42.760 --> 01:45:43.760 Any other. 01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:44.760 Is there any other new items? 01:45:44.760 --> 01:45:45.760 Is there any other new items? 01:45:45.760 --> 01:45:46.760 Yeah. 01:45:46.760 --> 01:45:47.760 This one we add stuff. 01:45:47.760 --> 01:45:48.760 Yeah. 01:45:48.760 --> 01:45:49.760 This one we add. 01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:51.760 I think we add stuff right here. 01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:52.760 Okay. 01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:53.760 Yes. 01:45:53.760 --> 01:46:02.640 I'd like us to have a future discussion over how we can be more strategic as a committee 01:46:02.640 --> 01:46:05.160 in the discussions we have in this committee. 01:46:05.160 --> 01:46:11.040 So right now you know having been on this for a few months it kind of feels like it's 01:46:11.040 --> 01:46:15.320 just based on we see a problem, we ask about it, we see a problem, we ask about it. 01:46:15.320 --> 01:46:20.040 We have this mobility plan out there and I haven't really seen that brought up that often 01:46:20.040 --> 01:46:21.520 like how are we doing on that? 01:46:21.520 --> 01:46:24.000 How does this problem fit into that? 01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:28.140 So it feels kind of like we're more in the weeds when I'd like us to have a discussion 01:46:28.140 --> 01:46:30.480 about do we want to kind of stay in the weeds? 01:46:30.480 --> 01:46:37.040 Do we want to be a little more strategic, talk a little more broadly like what values 01:46:37.040 --> 01:46:42.440 are we looking at like quality of life, safety, efficient use of city resources, things like 01:46:42.440 --> 01:46:43.440 that. 01:46:43.440 --> 01:46:47.840 Just kind of talking about on this committee how do we want to be tackling things? 01:46:47.840 --> 01:46:50.080 Kind of big picture or do we want to be down in the weeds? 01:46:50.080 --> 01:46:53.800 Do we want to be tying into big ideas or kind of doing what we're doing? 01:46:53.800 --> 01:46:56.480 So just kind of having a discussion about what that looks like. 01:46:56.480 --> 01:46:57.480 Okay. 01:46:57.480 --> 01:46:58.480 Yes sir. 01:46:58.480 --> 01:47:01.160 Ironically just I think it's a fabulous idea. 01:47:01.160 --> 01:47:05.880 Staff has been working through that so if staff can present kind of what a strategic 01:47:05.880 --> 01:47:11.920 plan might look like sometime maybe August, September. 01:47:11.920 --> 01:47:16.560 And we do that annually anyway we go back and take a look. 01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:21.080 I just happen to be on this committee for you know my time. 01:47:21.080 --> 01:47:27.000 And so I know that that is something that does occur but then we still have to you know 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:31.040 we still have gone back to tackle some of those. 01:47:31.040 --> 01:47:32.960 Some of these things are like engaged in types. 01:47:32.960 --> 01:47:34.000 Oh yeah for sure. 01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:42.080 And so and I recognize that but that's just the makeup right now of the committee's responsibilities. 01:47:42.080 --> 01:47:49.480 So if you want to work with if we want to work with our staff to elevate that in some 01:47:49.480 --> 01:47:53.280 kind of way to meet her questions. 01:47:53.280 --> 01:47:55.040 You know how often do we do that? 01:47:55.040 --> 01:47:57.480 Is that every meeting? 01:47:57.480 --> 01:48:03.520 You know we'll have to look at restructuring again if that's what you're looking for. 01:48:03.520 --> 01:48:04.520 Thank you. 01:48:04.520 --> 01:48:05.520 Yes sir. 01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:13.280 Yeah no I was going to say I would support I hear a slight distinction from what was 01:48:13.280 --> 01:48:22.360 requested as a future item and item for discussion on the sort of large policy role of the committee 01:48:22.360 --> 01:48:28.560 versus what I heard the response was and everybody correct me if I'm paraphrasing wrong and that 01:48:28.560 --> 01:48:34.480 was this is staff's vision for mobility planning. 01:48:34.480 --> 01:48:43.160 I see daylight between those two and so I would support even just a brief discussion 01:48:43.160 --> 01:48:50.760 about how this committee envisions its role and staff can do with that as it would but 01:48:50.760 --> 01:49:00.840 I would support a future action item to discuss the role in the larger picture of this committee. 01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:06.200 If I think that's a good paraphrase of Susie's request I would support that as a future action 01:49:06.200 --> 01:49:07.200 item. 01:49:07.200 --> 01:49:13.880 I don't know the particular time but not forever because you'll get out past the mobility planning 01:49:13.880 --> 01:49:15.760 if you're not careful. 01:49:15.760 --> 01:49:19.800 So that would be something I would support. 01:49:19.800 --> 01:49:24.400 But I think if I'm correct Ben don't we have to have unanimous agreement because there's 01:49:24.400 --> 01:49:27.400 only three of us here. 01:49:27.400 --> 01:49:34.720 If you're talking about policy is that what you're. 01:49:34.720 --> 01:49:39.120 This is a request for an item on the matrix. 01:49:39.120 --> 01:49:43.480 I think you can have a majority here. 01:49:43.480 --> 01:49:48.760 Staff is supportive and would already be bringing that forward and you paraphrased sort of close 01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:54.800 so I'm closer to Susie than I am to you so we're good we're good. 01:49:54.800 --> 01:49:55.800 We'll bring that forward. 01:49:55.800 --> 01:50:00.520 Okay thank you very much we certainly appreciate you all's hard work. 01:50:00.520 --> 01:50:04.560 Please don't think that we're not appreciative of anything that you all do. 01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:07.320 We're very supportive of you all in your work your hard work. 01:50:07.320 --> 01:50:11.840 Everybody sitting over there thank you very much for the from the community. 01:50:11.840 --> 01:50:14.160 Do we have any concluding items. 01:50:14.160 --> 01:50:20.520 Well if you don't have any concluding items then we are going to close out the meeting 01:50:20.520 --> 01:50:22.680 at eleven fifty one. 01:50:22.680 --> 01:50:25.760 Thank you all very much for being here. 01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:26.080 Thank you all.