Good morning.
We have a quorum and so I'm going to call this early morning edition of the mobility
committee to order.
Our first item, item A, is consider the approval of the minutes for the meeting held July 9,
2019.
I'll entertain a motion.
I have no choice but to second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Let's move on to item B, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding Texas Department
transportation on system projects in the Denton area.
Thank you.
My name is John Polster with Innovative Transportation Solutions, Incorporated and we'll get started
on the project list of on-system projects.
We have some very good news towards the end or the middle, I guess, we can share with
you today.
The total cost of the projects that we're looking at has been updated.
We're now at just under two and a half billion dollars worth of projects that are on our
action item list.
So that's up about 300 million from the last time you saw this project.
2181, while there is no official information on the start date, we do have additional information
related to some conversations that Assurity is having with Zachary and so we're looking
at maybe knowing something about a start date sometime in the late September, early October
time frame.
And unfortunately, probably what that means is that TechStat will give back to the Assurity
all of the days in the contract, which will extend the time it takes to get the project
completed but it will get the project started.
So good news, bad news, your Fort Worth drive continues to be under construction.
We have the report from TechStat, SEMA has addressed some of the utility issues and they're
now doing the pavement for the concrete pavement and they're starting from the frontage roads
working south.
So it will probably be another month or so before we have that intersection with the
turn lane so the traffic can get out onto the frontage road a little quicker but that
project is moving well and we had a fairly spirited mobility meeting the other day on
System Task Force.
Councilman Ryan, for whatever reason, started showing up so I've been getting a lot more
better response out of your staff.
I've been waiting all week to do that.
Well, nice you showed up at least at that.
Alright, your 35E Mayhill project, we had a good meeting with your development crew.
There is a question about the James Wood right away impacts associated with the remainder
and your development department met with us last week and was very helpful in giving us
an opportunity to at least try to get out of about a million and a half dollar impact
that we'll have to pay on the James Wood site and it's pretty much consistent with your
development review policies anyway so it looks like it's a win-win for everybody.
So we continue to move forward on the right away acquisition on this project and it has
a November 2020 let date and we are still on track to meet that date.
Your Luke 28 Brinker project, I don't know if you've driven by there, they are now currently
putting the asphalt down for the southbound main lanes at the 288 section, it's still
shooting for a September time frame for the southbound Luke 288 exit to be permanent exit
to be in place and then the Brinker underpass being open to traffic.
It really depends on right now OHL.
You may have already been in the process of answering but you said OHL and so for me I
know that Brinker, Loop and Teasley and then the on ramp on Dallas Drive, those are all
connected correct and so I as well as a lot of other council members and then things we've
passing off the staff have been getting several several comments and complaints and requests
for Teasley and 288 and so why this slide is up here if you could talk about how these
are all connected and at which point are they all going to open at the same time or will
one open and then in a month later another will open because I know that they all depend
upon each other some form or fashion.
So the answer on Dallas Drive is Dallas Drive is one of the last things that opens because
it opens when the 288 interchange is completed which is the last thing to be done but in
the next 45 days you're going to have the on ramp back in place for the mall so as you're
going north you can get on without having to go up to Teasley.
That will also fix the exit for the Dallas Drive from one two lanes to one.
That same 45 day period the week we could open Brinker today from a geometric standpoint
except there would have to be a stock condition on the frontage roads and the temporary off
ramp comes and exits right at that location so it's a dangerous situation.
So once we get the same 45 day period the new southbound exit for loop 288 or just past
loop 288 for Brinker and Mayhill let's exit the Mayhill exit move back north and so the
temporary goes away then the only thing left is the signal which is where I was fixing
to go.
We're ready to go on that the City of Dent's done everything they're supposed to do but
OHL isn't shockingly isn't playing ball with us on it so they're the variable on that signal
so I think your staff is thinking that if it gets to push to shove don't let me misquote
you all that there may be a way for you all to come in and help with the signal installation
and I'll let somebody else amplify that.
So obviously that's part of the contract for the OHL contractor but in interest to expedite
the intersection if we needed to that we have thrown the position out that we might be willing
in to go in and install these signals if need be we're still working through that issue
that's absolutely something we're exploring and the impact of that from an in-house standpoint
what would that mean in a way materials methods and getting the crews out there to actually
do that work.
So in that same 45-day period what you'd also have is while they're still working underneath
loop 288 for the main lanes you'd have both of your u-turns functional so a lot of traffic
that's trying to get to say Brinker and the Bucky side they can't cross here they go up
sets through the light and turn and come through once we get those in the next 45 days to u-turns
they'll be able to come up make the u-turn and come back south and not actually set through
the light so you should start to see slight improvements over the horrible condition that's
out there in the next 45 days but the opening of Dallas Drive is probably the very last
thing southbound that you'll see on this project.
So just a recap and for clarification and you step in so within 45 days we will see
at least one of these intersections improve or open and then possibly both of them.
The asterisk is we're dealing with OHL but that's their schedule and they appear to be
doing the things that they said they were going to do in order to make those things
happen but I never want to be in the position to defend an OHL for anything but yes that's
what and Councilman Ryan was at the meeting we had a fairly spirited conversation about
this whole issue.
Your staff is very proactive trying to get things done in this area.
I appreciate that they're very responsive when we get complaints and there's just a
lot of frustration built up from the community right now from this area.
Well that's the good news is right as we get this done we'll start doing the same thing
to mail.
I've got some more news for you too that's going to be same as the one.
Yeah I was just going to say just another thing that came out of the meeting is the
exit for Brinker that temporary exit will be down for about a week at least that a week
is there what they're saying so again OHL works on football time so one week probably
means three weeks but we're in order to get to Mayhill exit you will have to actually
exit on 288 for that time period.
Yes so what happens is thanks about that so you've got your temporary offer up here and
your permanent is going to be here and so what they have to do in order to once they
build the permanent they got to have that closed in time for them to remove the temporary
so there will be a one week gap where if you want to get to Brinker or Mayhill coming from
the south from the north you'll have to exit and come through the loop but at that point
we should have two lanes of traffic on the frontage road to turn and two lanes to go
through and the U-turns in place so we're hoping that we offset the pain with a little
bit of capacity but yes there will be a one week period where you won't be able to get
to Brinker or Mayhill from the north.
To add to that staff will definitely look at the signal timings and add more green for
that particular approach so that people are not stuck and back up all the way to the freeway.
This is traffic engineering involved theory just like the curbs alright so that's pretty
much what I just told you there 35E here's the news so the I-35E 3535W merge in next
Thursday or whatever the fourth Thursday of the month is the draft unified transportation
plan shows this project being fully funded at three hundred and twenty million dollars
so it was a little over what we thought and less than what I thought so this project is
fully funded and it's looking for a hit date let date of January 2023 AECOM is doing the
design even as we speak they were working on an interim and an ultimate and now they're
just going straight for the ultimate so fully funded we got our money so that's additional
lanes on 35W going north the weave merge issues with 35E resolved the frontage roads in place
all the way to 77 your braided ramps in this area your improvements to the interchange
of 380 we're going to work with tech stack because the next project I got good news on
as well 1173 tie-in so we can fix this issue up here just north of look 288 which also
includes half of the direct connect for loop 288 so 320 million it's draft right now but
they've already published it to the public and they'll vote on it this coming next two
weeks or Thursday whatever the fourth Thursday of the month is that's bumper bricks so when
you say it's fully funded that's good news but is there is there a time limit to use
those funds once a project is fully funded yes so these are these are not just text dollars
they're clear lane funds and the clear lane funds the reason we were able to get the clear
lanes funds is this project's already environmentally clear we're already doing the design and we're
already acquiring the right-of-way so there's we that's what Todd and I were talking about
the good news is this project is now fully funded the bad news is they're gonna want
to hit that date as much as possible which means your Bonnie Bray improvements are now
under the bubble just about to ask you when is that supposed to be done improvements are
under the bubble and oh by the way if you've got any utilities in that corridor those are
under the bubble but I think Todd's been working with that preemptively so I might defer to
his wisdom if he wants to expect any of that yeah can you remind us when Bonnie Bray's
gonna be all in place so the target for Bonnie Bray is to be complete by the end of 2022
so we should be ahead there the challenge now is that Western has a very limited distance
that it covers four lanes it goes from Jim Crystal down to FM 1515 which will also be
under construction and not too distant future so what we've really got to find is a route
that allows Western to operate under this scenario from 380 all the way down to 2449
to be that relief route from north to south so as people enter into that merged construction
zone they're going to be looking for alternative routes with all of this I-35 construction
going on all at the same time our concern is that Bonnie Bray will get overloaded so
you really need that auxiliary bypass over off to the west which has not been our rate
on our radar until now it was something you know this project had been 2026 in the time
frame to start construction and it put us in a time frame bill allows more development
to come in potentially impact fees to build and West Park turds to help offset some of
the costs in that area along with some other development going on south of FM 1515 help
really push that arterial expansion but we may not have that luxury if we want to stay
ahead of construction woes may necessitate that we start looking at some other alternatives
or as John and I were talking about potentially asking the state could you push that date
back a year or two just so that we can figure out how we're going to handle this so we're
exploring those alternatives John really wasn't aware that this came down quickly over the
last two weeks so we're all still adjusting to what are the impacts from a mobility standpoint
and what are our options we're working on that but we don't we don't have all the answers
just yet just to follow up on that and for a reminder that this section is the project
that's going to help that 380 interchange right that backs up and it's so crazy so if we don't
have to postpone it a year or two I would prefer not to do that I would so post not
the right word typically okay you let the project on attrition drive it schedule a little
further out so these dates are going to be target dates the tech stops gonna really really
really try to hit but that typically means that they will slide some from what they think
is this is a guess what these steps are going to take so we'll continue like I say I'm I've
been around to that long time you got some pretty good horsepower in this room to get
this stuff done and I feel confident that we're up to the challenge is there a way to
phase it so that the parts we want most happen sooner just like we did on the OHL job absolutely
that wasn't what I meant once it's let the contractor has we could put stuff up front
which what that's what we need to do we'll meet with the task force and as they're putting
together the package we'll put in special provisions that you know like on 35 they couldn't
when they were doing the AGL they couldn't do two consecutive interchanges at a time
I mean there's things like that that we can do to try to to maximize the potential for
getting mobility back in a quarter and minimize the congestion during construction that sounds
good so 320 million projects fully funded now we're under the bubble for all kinds of
stuff to get done now your 35 north project this one also has been funded at five hundred
and forty six million dollars so you're talking about just under a billion dollars which to
put that in perspective text that actual dollars in 35e was about 660 million the rest of it
was RTR and TIFI alone so they've already got a higher investment in I-35 and the wishbone
and all these improvements here than they did in the section to the south so you're
talking again this one's a little bit closer because we're we are we've been out there
longer this project's been on the table forever and this was the one remember I've kept coming
to you going the region did not fund this project because we're playing chicken with
Austin to who's going to fund it because they can't not fund this project and so this is
now fully funded through clear lanes and category 12 funding so again this project is fully
funded and we're on a tighter schedule here there's on the section to the south so that's
what the bricks so without a manage lane or with this is recorded right without so can
we just take a moment it's a little hard for me to put this all together like how does
the timing then work you know and the impacts between this the wishbone and body break right
because this hits first and it's gonna back things up more right and there it is all right
so the challenge is going to be it's what we've been talking about for a couple years
now the challenge is going to be when the 35 construction goes you're going to have
a lot of changes in lanes you're going to have some traffic pushed over to frontage
roads I mean it's going to be a variety of things so as pressure builds on the i-35 quarter
like you're seeing on i-35e right now going south consistently as you come into the brinker
road in the loop 288 area backs up every day all the way up to at least mccormick on sometimes
other times it gets to fort worth drive it could go even further you're talking about
almost the exact same scenario everybody's trying to get two homes that are off of that
university drive exit how do you provide provision for them to get around it as they're working
the 380 interchange and try to make that better you're automatically gonna have folks using
their ways apps or whatever app they're using on their phone and it's going to drop them
down pathways that provide the least amount of resistance so bonnie bray is going to be
a key target for that but you know this is an even earlier time frame right we should
still be the time frames we currently have with bonnie bray we would be complete with
phase six so that's everything north of university drive that would be complete before summer
of 2022 so that's the date of september 20 let date of september 2022 basically means
that jay wouldn't probably start till the first quarter 2023 right because of the the
mobilization and the bonding and the contracting it's usually 60 to 90 days before they come
out and so the other special provisions we're going to try to add because of the dollar
amount if we can combine these two that's good if not it doesn't matter because they're
both fairly large is try to include in the special provisions of the same requirements
on them that we had on agl to have a public relations firm and their whole job is to keep
the corridor in the public involved in what's going on on a daily basis email alerts daily
lane closures etc and stuff like that that's that's all good i just want to if i can just
kind of want to get the big picture of the sequencing so so we get the northern part
of bonnie bray in place then that hits then we get the southern part of bonnie bray in
place then the wishbone construction hits that more or less the the big picture that
was our original timeline for bonnie bray was to come back and do phase four and five
once six is in place which is that segment between 35e and 380 we're not going to have
that luxury going forward so where we're potentially going with the 2019 bond schedule would be
all of bonnie bray under construction over the next two and a half years so that we are
ahead of this schedule and bonnie bray is done before it takes that were to kick off
the 35 construction john you had points just a couple of points one is there's there's
crossover between this project and the other that you see this one runs from 380 north
and the other one goes all the way up to 77 so you really only have four months difference
between the start dates one is september of 22 and one is january yeah good point the
wishbone that we were going after we were going after under the assumption that we wouldn't
get the funding for this so we do have the funding for both so the limits are actually
wishbone to 380 380 to the county line from a csj or project standpoint but we're reporting
it because it's all one giant project so so you're going to do that northern part twice
well wouldn't be the first time this is recorded right okay all right and so your 35 w main
lanes again this is hntv text i've picked them up to do the ultimate improvements from
the wishbone where we leave off all the way down to the kyan with tarrant county and and
so a little bit more nuance on the managed lanes on the on the section in the 35e project
in this area there will be the addition of because there are managed lanes proposed so
city of dentons not really have any managed lanes they in the interim they stopped in
the lake cities right but in the ultimate project there are managed lanes through the
city of denton and they narrow down to a single lane in each direction coming north because
the lane balance and they pick up and have two lanes in this area going north and two
lanes coming south from 380 so in the ultimate improvements they will build the area for
the managed lanes and so if i don't know if you've even noticed it when you go across
the bridge over 407 going south that bridge is built for four lanes of managed lanes two
in each direction they just simply have a barricaded off right now because we're only
using one lane in each direction i mean two lanes contraflow so we will be building the
ultimate managed lanes for this section of 35e and 35 as were per the plans that were
environmentally cleared so when you get to and there will be no managed lanes in this
segment however we're building it as a rural cross section rural cross section has the
same footprint as an urban plus or minus urban cross section with managed lanes so we're
leaving that option in the future although the proposal here is for a rural freeway so
then you get to 35w again it was started out its life as a managed lane project three two
two three three general purpose two managed lanes two managed lanes three general purpose
but in the political environment we found ourselves in we we converted it in the last
mobility plan to a rural freeway so it's just three three but in a larger footprint from
a right away standpoint to preserve the corridor so that's what they're doing on this job the
critical path time frame is a schematic approval because that ties into this project where
we're doing the frontage roads and and what communities along this corridor need right
now more than main lanes is frontage roads because you can't develop without them and
so if you see what's going on in this section to the south where we're adding frontage roads
as development comes in you're already seeing a significant amount of development it's actually
one under the knife before we even got these projects finished so the intent is to have
frontage roads continuous frontage roads from tarrant counting all the way to that project
that we just showed you that's fully funded now and this one is you know 300 million bucks
and it's got a what they call ready to let of 2023 which means all the right of ways
acquired and utilities are relocated but that's that's a tall order counselor bricks is this
the and the area where this committee made the decision regarding vintage and how this
freeway is going to exit or are not yet so yes ma'am in where 2449 comes in right around
in here I believe we only have grade separations or direct connects I mean from the west to
the north and the west to the south there's no vintage grade separations that allow you
to free flow onto the freeway you're gonna have to come to the box stop at a light and
then go and that was because when we drew out the direct connects to go tie into vintage
it went significantly into the neighborhoods and it essentially would have turned vintage
into a a arterial loop and I don't think y'all were interested in that so we just chopped
off the direct connects and it's a physical stop at a light for vintage but if you're
coming from 2449 it's a free flow north and a free flow south on the 35 w that's your
question yeah well I just wanted to update I don't know if you were hearing you any of
that from that conversation yeah so this is y'all do a lot of work on body brave vintage
and what that will encourage is you know easy flow but if you put a mondo direct connect
interchange which looks you know pretty much something like that what crosses that it would
make it easier for people to use that as a cut through as opposed to going home and so
all we did was cut the eastern half of the direct connect off so that you can only go
north and south from the west or west from the north and south and again this project
we're looking at 2023 to be ready to let they're put it out at 2025 because it's not funded
right now and that's just right outside the window that they have to play with but we're
moving and so once this project is environmentally cleared after the march 2020 and we get the
schematic set what we'll do then is we'll come in if there's a development in this area
that needs frontage then we'll just do like we did in the south we'll just build certain
sections because once it's clear we can build whatever part we want so it may not be built
consecutively as a 300 million dollar job it may be three or four you know 75 million
hundred million dollar jobs 380 east okay so these two we're probably at some point
in the near future going to break these out into two different projects because text that's
saying this project is going to be ready to go to construction faster than this section
is and they have a cash flow issue we have to spend some money but remember what I told
you there's all this money and all of it's sitting in Dallas County and Collin County
but if they can't get their act together they still have to spend the money and so this
segment although it's fully funded this segment is going to be ready faster and they have
to be able to spend some of that money in that let month so they're talking about working
with us to build the green section sooner than the blue because they need to spend the
money well that section includes sidewalks sidewalks and Europe and the staff did the
trail on that absolutely so February 2021 there may be a date that you're going to see
on next mobilities where this is broken out and you'll have an earlier date for the green
segment which is literally right around the corner so you won't be able to go south you
won't be able to go north and you won't be able to go east stay home go yet West young
man Luke 288 again this is a kind of where we were talking about a moment ago the direct
connects stop on the western side and they don't tie into vintage there's full interchanges
and direct connects at the existing loop 288 we are looking at April 2020 environmental
clients will allow us to move forward on this schedule this is a lot longer schedule what
they typically put in when they're guessing but because of the gas wells in this area
and more importantly the transmission lines in this corridor they have experienced difficulty
in this environment before so they're using those dates schedules for the process of getting
through those two steps the right away in acquisition which pushes your your project
that now with 35 being focused on now the district is the one that's been pushing the
loop for a long time so we feel fairly confident that you know as these projects get closer
to their maturation that we'll find the where's the dollar amount oh there it is we'll we'll
find the 253 million bucks we need to build the project and then FM 1515 we're having
a public meeting in August 29 on improvements here it will show a traffic circle into the
airport and buzzes back in town from Colorado so he says it's going to show a traffic circle
or what do you call it at Western and we're moving forward the schedule to you know be
ready to let in a couple years and it's 32 million bucks which sounds like a lot but
it's not and I think once we're get the project environmentally cleared we won't be long there
after to find the funds because again you the city is entering in an MOU with text out
for certain projects where once they're fully constructed to your desires we'll take them
off system and turn them into a local street and text up once that as much as you all want
it so we feel fairly confident once we get the project closer to its let date that we'll
have it funded as well same 1173 once now the 35 is operational for lack of a better
word 1173 takes on new life because if we don't get something done 1173 is already underwater
not literally in some places but figuratively from a traffic standpoint so we're probably
going to be meeting with Garver the contract the engineering firm and text out and finding
a way to maybe expedite this project because again 1173 is going to be this is tying into
an area that's not functional for lack of a better word right now and once we come in
and do the northern segment we'll need FN 1173 operational so we're fairly confident
on this job too 428 okay so the RTC in order to get the commission to be interested in
the 35s and some other projects in the other region they had to reshuffle chairs on the
deck to entice them the dollar amounts that the commission put on 35 and 35e were larger
than was anticipated so that means that Michael and RTC had what's called category two funds
that were on these projects that if the commission had to pick them up with cat 12 strategic
priority and cat 12 clear lanes he would have had to use those funds to make these dates
now that they've rolled in and picked these up those category two dollars are now freed
up for other things well Michael has been pushing the outer loop in the Collin Denton
County area longer than anybody has and when you have all the trauma that we're having
on 380 in this area we believe the outer loop because they essentially told us it's now
going to go back to being a fairly high priority quickly which drives the fact that 428 is
now a critical path item so we're going to be meeting with text up again we're meeting
with them in conjunction with your bond program but with the flexibility they now have with
the release on the 35 corridor we want to reorient them to this eastern quadrant where
you're already having development issues coming down the pack so we got a blank slate
right now but I'm thinking that very quickly as things happen in my world this will become
operational and we'll be able to give you better information on it going forward and
I believe that's it thank you thank you for joining us and thanks for your patience appreciate
you coming to visit so I'll call a lot item C receive a report and hold a discussion regarding
updates from the den county transportation authority thank you oh yeah oh receive report
hold the discussion no decisions well good morning and it's nice to be here Nicole usually
provides the update she's she's been out for a while she's recovering she's been ill for
a few months but she sends her best to you she says she misses you and can't wait to
come back so she it's not too often that people are really wanting to come back to work but
she's actually very very excited to come back soon so here she's not well I wasn't aware
of that yes thank you appreciate it well I'm here to talk to you about quiet zones so there's
10 quiet zones that recently the FRA came in and conducted a visit let's start with
kind of what is a quiet zone with regard to the railroad so in order to establish a quiet
zone the city actually submits a form to the FRA requesting the implementation of a quiet
zone a quiet zone is basically additional safety precautions that are put around a intersection
to basically allow the the engineer that's operating the train to not blow the horn as
they come into the approach of a of an intersection they typically start blowing the horn depending
on the speed about 15 seconds prior to entering the quiet zone they have to continue to sound
the horn as you can imagine that creates a lot of noise but it's a safety warning precaution
for pedestrians cyclists and and motorists as they cross requires basically to protect
the entire zone which is typically a four quadrant zone or four quadrant gate there's
directional horns that are localized sound that that carries down the corridor to notify
pedestrians and vehicular traffic warning of approach of a of a train and in addition
to that there's additional striping that's typically put on to the roadways that indicate
that you're approaching the railroad they're outside of what's called the right of way
which is typically 50 to 100 feet from the centerline of the track and that's the zone
that agency is usually responsible for so the city because the striping and the signage
as you approach a zone is responsible for the signage and striping and of course over
time these these warning striping and paint tend to wear and the original implementation
of the quiet zones was done at the implementation of the the a train service it is required
every five years to reapply for certification of the of the safety zone and here's some
some some of the safety measures that are typically put in place as you can see in the
top left that's the four quadrant gates the the railroad crossing pavement paint that
you see as you approach in the kind of bottom center and then some of the other precautions
that you can put in is subdividing the roads with medians and then approaching warning
signs that indicate whether the first one with the railroad crossing is to indicate
that there's no sounding of the horns as the train comes into the approach and so there's
different variations of protection that you can put along the street and of course as
you introduce trails it becomes more complicated because then you have not only traffic that's
coming up to the approach of across then you have traffic that's running parallel to the
to the railroad and so there's different safety precautions that that DCTA has to follow as
we're crossing intersections but we also work with the city's once a safety zone has been
put in or quiet zone in this case has been put in to make sure that we're protecting
pedestrians traffic have a question for you in regards to the paint because you said it's
the city's responsibility to maintain that paint is it the city's responsibility to notice
that it needs to be repainted or does DCTA reach out and say it's time we need our you
know or do we have a process for that to make sure that you know it's getting done that
is a phenomenal question thank you typically DCTA hires inspectors and they're on the railroad
almost every day looking for everything from railroad ties bridge the quality of the bridge
and the health of the ride and all of these things signal systems the crossings.
Since the inception of the train system we tend to take care of everything that's within
that 50 feet because it's the paint is on the streets our inspectors have not been asked
to look at that in the past in a new railroad you typically it's like buying a brand new
car right you tend to not worry too much about maintenance as it starts getting older you
have to make sure that you're maintaining it and of course you should be looking at
it every every few years so it's something that that the city staff and DCTA have discussed
that we need to make sure that we have a good process in place the inspection every five
years by the FRA and the the actually they come in more often than that the the recertification
every five years is to ensure that we are looking at at those types of quality issues
that may spur a need for a project so in 2017 DCT actually hired a contractor to come in
and recertify the quiet zones we did they inspect them at the time apparently the inspection
did not indicate that the wear was at the point that they needed to be replaced it wasn't
until July 30th after the event with the cyclist the bicycle incident that the FRA sent inspectors
in and that's commonplace that when there's incidents they did it a few years prior and
it's very commonplace when there's incidents along the railroad that they'll send their
inspection team to do a review so they met with city staff DCTA staff they went to Brinker
they looked at a couple of other locations and as part of that process since the recertification
in 2017 they indicated that the the the pavement paint restriping needed to be redone as you
can imagine with foliage it tends to grow over signage over time we've had a lot of
rain over the last few years but the railroad typically focuses on what they call the right
away of the railroad and then we work with the city hand-in-hand to make sure that all
the approach and signage and painting and everything needs to be taken care of and so
this really caught us off guard a little bit with the FRA not that and it's not that they
caught us off guard it's just that they they will continuously do unscheduled visits and
in this case they notified us that they were coming pre-tem was there were several folks
from the city from DCTA and they usually do a great job of of adding advice as they look
at things and suggestions of things that we need to work on so I'd like to add to that
in the past city has not had a program per se to go and look at all these quiet zones
as we move forward to implementing more quiet zones with the Union Pacific Railroad line
as well as DCTA we will have a program in place starting now we will start reviewing
all these quiet zones markings and signs on a regular basis most likely it might be every
two years we were not sure at this point what timeline but we will have frequent and periodical
inspections to make sure that everything is lined similar to what we're doing with the
crosswalks throughout the city thank you and so I assume that there's not really a budget
for that right now as far as and so we'll need to do look for right away for the areas
for the signs to trim that back as well and the painting so it will be to it will be covered
under our operation and maintenance cost o and m costs for the traffic operations group
they do that all around the city maintain markings and signs clear signs so it's more
of a proactive approach especially with the quiet zones and we already have one for the
for the crosswalks okay thank you and we'll be looking at our procedures as well to make
sure that our inspectors as they're inspecting the rail line are looking for those types
of issues as they come up I think this is what the mayor calls scar tissue as I mentioned
in 2017 all the quiet zones in Denton were recertified by the FRA so literally two years
ago there wasn't any indication that there was an issue again this has to do with with
wear and tear it's not to say that that condition didn't exist it just didn't come up as part
of the recertification program so I'm gonna move this conversation along so on the on
the 30th we received the notice if there's more than one or two crossings if it's a crossing
typically they'll give you notice and they'll give you some time to rectify the situation
when there are multiple crossings as you can imagine all these areas were painted at the
same time so you likely all the paint is going to start deteriorating relatively at the same
time and that was the case so what they did is they decertified all ten crossings but
some of the crossings didn't have an issue it's just a process that you have to follow
so the city immediately turned back in a few days and said well there's four crossings
that don't have an issue we were but we needed to make sure that we had consistency so that
we we could start not blowing the horn as we went through some of these crossings I
want to thank city staff the the speed at which they took care of it the cooperation
that we had between our staff and the city staff was quite impressive I'm glad to say
that from July 30th as of yesterday we stopped blowing horns at all crossings the staff really
focused on it did an exceptional job so thank you for that and there's a couple of more
crossings that we need to address and I'm going to move through some of these unless
you have questions so here are the list of them all the crossings that they said were
deficient but as you can see at pockers page there was no deficiency there was a recommendation
that we turn the trees back some of the others had no deficiencies they did suggest that
Colorado Boulevard and Brinker that the approach of the trail kind of comes to a tee to sidewalk
because there's no cut through the median that allows the trail to continue and it's
what it has caused is it creates some innovative approaches from the folks that are on bicycles
to get around not having to get off of their bike across the street or take a left or right
go to the controlled intersection and back over and I can tell you that the imagination
that people use to not get off their bike is pretty impressive we've had we've installed
we've hired a consulting engineering firm to look at the entire railroad end to end
or the entire crossing and as it crosses the railroad and make recommendations for safety
improvements which we have made significant improvements over the last two years and by
installing Z crossings which requires the cyclist to maneuver through chain link fence
so that they're actually looking hopefully both ways before they cross the railroad but
as you can imagine we've installed those we met some opposition from the cycling community
because it does cause them to and I can understand as a cyclist you don't want to break your
rhythm but it does require you to break your rhythm and pay attention to the rail crossing
while we're seeing where they're managing to get all the way around the Z crossings
and so it's a constant challenge to try to help people be safe but it's not always the
safest thing in this case the FRA did come in and recommend suggests that we make cuts
through the medium so that the folks that are on bicycles and pushing their kids on
strollers can make a better transition across those two intersections and we're working
with the city and believe the engineering is almost complete on those two cut sections
DCTA is actually going to fund those and hire the contractor so that we can get those done
as soon as we can.
The other quiet zones that we're working on is that outside this list?
Correct.
Okay so is there a way to pull sort of an extra win out of this little setback by just
because of the fact that we've got their attention and to maybe use this moment to move forward
on the other quiet zones we're trying to achieve?
So the other quiet zones are on Union Pacific Railroad.
It's a whole different system, different ballgames, different corridor, completely different.
Okay no competition between the two?
And by the way the FRA wasn't picking on the city of Denton.
They've already notified the city of Louisville and like Dallas and everyone along the corridor
that they're coming through making these these inspections and once they start seeing some
deterioration and they're focused on a corridor they actually and it's a great partnership
with the FRA.
We've always had a really good relationship with them and they come in and they suggest
and they advise and in this case they said as soon as you've made the repairs you don't
have to file a report just send us an email so you can stop blowing the horn because they
do care a lot not only about passenger safety but working in partnership with the cities
and the railroads and so my thanks actually goes out to the FRA as well for for their
cooperation and partnership.
So that concludes the the presentation on the quiet zones unless there's something else
that you would like to know or have questions about.
And then I had one other thing I was asked to to quickly respond to a bus stop at West
Bound University at Bell we had a contractor we'd asked to move it we had some stakeholder
input about the stop.
I'm hearing today this morning that it was actually a stop and I'm going to ask Troy
to come in come up and speak to this particular issue but we moved the stop we started getting
complaints because crime started going up it caused some additional traffic, congestion
and so what we decided to do is move the stop back but I'm hearing this morning that maybe
our contractor moved the wrong stop which happens every once in a while Troy?
Yeah go ahead and it'll be easier for you at the mic better press first of all I think
we need to clarify what the problem is.
I went out and observed the intersection and the problem isn't the westbound traffic in
the westbound stop it's the one going northbound Bell when they stop to pick someone up the
people heading north on Bell back up into the intersection of University and that obstructs
the westbound traffic so it's actually a different stop that's the problem.
So we're going to move that stop we've got to go through a notification process there
is quite a bit of ridership at that stop and they'll have to go north 400 feet to the next
stop and that gives you enough payment for it because it is just one lane there so if
you've got people behind the bus at the south side of University trying to go north then
we've got to give them enough room to get up in there in the bus to load if that makes
sense. So we're working on it and we hope to have it moved in the next 30 days and then
this problem should relieve itself okay thank you.
No further questions all right thank you very much.
I do have one because I know you you got a phone call from our city staff this last week
with I think she might actually be here today but a concern with all the construction going
on yes and the rerouting of route 7 that no longer goes past Fraser Ranch has that been
have we worked on those routes? Actually fortuitously Troy has actually been
reaching out I don't Troy do you want to speak to that real quick sorry to make you talk
again but as it stands right now we don't have a good path we have to touch Presbyterian
Hospital because we have a lot of clients that go to the various medical establishments
on that campus.
As it stands we've got to touch this area out here and currently we've got a lot of ridership
that goes to medical establishments here on scripture but the 35 foot bus does not make
it down that street so we're having to drop those people on those passengers on the parking
lot at Presby and we've got a small vehicle stationed there every day to transport those
people back down to MHMR because a lot of them can't walk that distance back down the
street so at this time we can't move and not being able to go up Bonnie Bray we're having
to go up the service road and it's going to continue that way until Bonnie Bray opens
up all the way from Oak to University but I think the concern was that you then go back
up by the old hospital up on the west side of 35 and then turn around and come back well
anybody that was previously getting off at Razor Ranch at one of those stops now has
to get off on the other side of 35 and walk back across.
And to address that problem what we've done is in the August 26 schedule they can catch
Route 4 and come back there's a transfer point right out there there's a dialysis clinic
or some other medical establishments out there in that area that's what the ridership that's
why we touch that area but in August 26 we've changed the schedule so that they have time
to transfer they can remain on the bus until the other bus arrives and then they can transfer
to Route 4 and get back down University you know I kind of applause for a little housekeeping
just because we're closing in on the bottom there do you have any flexibility on the ending
time for 15 more minutes okay and and we've got a citizen wishing to speak but it this
notes that you're looking to speak on the on 05 3 which was the decent which is the
on system that you wanted to speak on this item okay all right so when we complete the
presentation then I'll have you come up okay sorry might I suggest that we allow her to
speak so that we can we can understand the issue yes Troy has I had asked Troy personally
to reach out to you to understand exactly what the issue is so that we can try to address
it I don't even know who you're addressing yet so you know so okay if you come up to
the mic thank you state your name and address you know three minutes and what's no right
up here and yeah yep and after you state your name and address your time will begin thank
you Eva Greco 802 West Oak Street in Denton I ride that I work on University in the razor
ranch area I ride the seven bus every day unfortunately it stops running and when I
get out of work so I have to look for transportation or take an uber home the way the bus is running
now I have to get off I left work early yesterday and it was just plain heat exhaustion because
every day I have to get off behind the Waffle House and walk back towards University to
get to my job it's very very dangerous and it's not just myself it's other passengers
also with this heat it's really horrible it's just horrible as far as connecting with the
number four bus before the schedule was changed the number four bus was there waiting okay
now if I get off behind Waffle House let's say the number four next number four bus is
not for 40 minutes as it is now because of the new bus schedule change I have to leave
my house now at least an hour before I have to be at work the buses the schedule keeps
changing which is a big problem for everyday passengers okay there is no communication
with DCTA at all the communication is horrible traffic is rerouted to come down panhandle
every time there's construction you know buses are rerouted onto the side streets and I live
right in the middle of the historic district so it's been rerouted quite a few times comes
right past my apartment and I don't see why the bus can't take the side streets I know
there's infrastructure issues but right now you have and I have seen it tractor trailers
coming through the side streets because of the you know closing off and I'm sorry excuse
my back everyone um you have heavy vehicles coming through the side streets now because
of the construction and we just can't see you have minimum seven bus stops that are
being bypassed passengers are not made aware of this when this first happened you're standing
at a bus stop and waiting and waiting and a bus is never coming because it's been rerouted
there is no signage there is no notification there is I still have a January schedule there
is no note schedules are not up on the buses you know okay thank you I really appreciate
you taking the time to come to two public meetings to make us aware I hope you feel
that you know you're gonna you're gonna hear response from like the president of DCTA
somebody was supposed to call me back last week and nobody's called me yeah so so so
so when so once you go if you'll leave the mic to those folks let's let's get a response
do you want to give any response now for us um let me see if I can where are you coming
from ma'am where you where are you coming from what's your origination of your trip
where are you getting on to the route seven um I get out by uh West Oak and Desing Street
in front of Dr. Simms office okay we're still going down that corridor right seven still
goes down that corridor yes it does so your issue is is getting from and we can do this
offline if y'all want let's do this I mean I'd like you to if you can't address the parts
that are you know general general you know impact like so notification about route changes
and yes the general issues yes thank you I'll try to wrap it up quickly but we will if you'll
stay with us we will meet offline thank you I'm glad you're here today because we have
been trying to reach you so that we could address the issue there is a an application
that you can download that will notify you it's not even an application you can just
subscribe to our rider alerts that anybody that's using our service will get alerted
as to when we're making service changes not only service changes but if there is a a reroute
of our buses which can happen without a lot of notice to us university can also put barricades
in and so we you're correct we are seems like we're always rerouting somewhere our our method
to reach out to people quickly is through our rider alert service and that'll at least
inform you when we're having to make changes because we travel through these roads as frequently
as eight minutes 15 minutes there's a tremendous amount of frequency of these vehicles having
to get up and down roads and what we need to make sure of is not only that we can get
down a road but that we can get down and make the appropriate turn so that we have the ability
to continue on our route when we get into neighborhoods it definitely creates a dangerous
situation and because we have so much frequency and we don't have the luxury much like an
18-wheeler deciding when they're actually going to go down one of those side streets
that's a very dangerous practice but safety is at the top of our priority we want to make
sure that we're not disrupting people that are living in these neighborhoods so to start
rerouting a lot of buses through the neighborhoods we have to take a lot of concern we also have
to make sure that if a bus could actually turn down the street depending on whether
it's turning right or left whether we can actually do that safely because it's not creating
a blind spot and you do that so often whereas maybe a heavy truck does it once we're doing
it every day five to six times a week it becomes a concern for us so there's only so many ways
we can maneuver in a neighborhood to get where we need to go but we'll do a better job and
I'll make sure that we meet with you offline on those particular issues that you're bringing
to concern.
Committee members are getting restless to get a couple questions in.
Councilmember Ryan.
Just a suggestion because I didn't I knew that timing on the route is a big thing so
trying to and trying to make a u-turn is a big thing but now finding out that you all
have another bus that sets at Presbyterian a small bus that sits there and takes them
throughout the medical could you.
Because we can't get our bus down.
Okay yeah okay but in that area that because of the cycle time of that bus route could
that bus also pick up people that need to go to razor run through you know run them
over there again a small bus can turn around easier than a big bus keeps your big bus on
time that bus driver is already sitting there.
I don't know what how to take a look at it sure if you could look at the time yeah right
sorry you began hearing let's move the mic I don't know because at the same time you're
not dropping off people at razor you're also not picking up people at razor and councilmember
Briggs did you have something you wanted to okay I'd like to get a staff report as a follow-up
on just what the procedure is for for informing riders of route changes yeah I think that's
we go through a very rigorous we're required to by the FTA to go through a very rigorous
process where we actually hold stakeholder forms we put notifications in the paper we
have open we try to reach or go to places where we can impact the most people and notify
them the DTC libraries different places post postings at the bus stop sign post postings
I don't I don't know that we put a posting on every bus stop sign we have 400 plus bus
stop signs but nobody but I mean at the at the pardon me understand and I'm not here
to you know I'm just responding to what I'm hearing you know the sort of clear suggestion
of the situation if it's as it sounds is that on the bypass stops you'd want to have something
present to let you know this isn't active now you know right like if that if it's the
way just the way it sounds to me I'm just hearing what we're hearing if seven seven
stops are passed you wouldn't want people standing there not knowing that nothing's
gonna come sure don't walk so far away the only stops that were not active at this point
are the ones that are on Bonnie Bray we still have service to the other stops on the university
seven doesn't go through there obviously the four still go through there so you're talking
just a handful of stops that we are no longer served yeah more to this point maybe we can
put some kind of bag over that says not signs not active yeah even if it's one right this
you know don't wait here suggestion because we're breaks did you want to add something
now all right are we are we good for today and then you'll be following up with the speakers
thank you thank you very much all right we've got to do a little housekeeping we have six
more borrowed minutes potentially what our staff priorities are councilman Briggs so
I requested the vision zero presentation mostly as a step to get it to council so that we
could pass a resolution so if it's okay with this committee we just can move that presentation
up to a work session or get it somehow if because I'm completely in favor of it especially
with all the traffic and everything and the construction we have going on I think it would
be a good consideration no objection okay so is can can you move forward with that and
then then we would just move on to E if you do do you want to do item E with us in the
time we have is that is that adequate can we do e pre temp yes okay so open so we're
going to move item D up to work session and I'll open item E receive a report and hold
the discussion regarding the city of Denton mobility plan work completed and plan future
task items and the market set Pam will she's going to slip skip over a few slides so that
I will talk quickly I just noticed yours 14 okay so basically the update is we had a technical
stakeholder committee meeting on July 11th we had our first round of public meetings
we had two we are scheduling a third one this month on the 22nd we the consultant collected
a lot of data we're looking at existing conditions I wanted to share some of the boards we had
set up at the public meetings the timeline basically what is a mobility plan so these
are the boards we received feedback on bicycle facilities and we will be sharing the results
next month and this is some of the data the consultants pulled for existing conditions
roadways bicycle pedestrians this is all saved online so you can look at those numbers later
this next month the biggest push is we're going to continue collecting citizen feedback
we're going to be developing the results sharing the next month and then starting some travel
demand modeling Ryan and Stephanie have done a fabulous job they've created a page online
there's the link and in there you will find the survey which has 20 very quick 25 questions
and there's an interactive map people can leave comments on for things to collect and
will the staff will the team will look into those as we move forward and that's it thank
you there's a couple of record I pointed out to Sarah and the committee what is it called
committee on citizen engagement just there are a couple of logic flaws in the mobility
plan survey where it asks when you bike you know there are a few questions about when
you bike so there's no opportunity if you don't bike to respond or say NA or something
and similarly there's a section on how you feel about your children going to school and
not everyone has children going to school so you need a logic path for that other comments
or questions just a question so I see that there's the survey and then there's the map
but is there within the survey a section just to leave another comment yes at the end and
a lot of those questions were kind of general we definitely put an option to type in additional
feedback so there's definitely several questions at the end of the survey that provide just
general questions it's just a comment just the safety and crash data was very informative
which adds to the reason why vision zero would be a really great thing for us to do so I
do want to add we are having a meeting next week as part of the mobility plan it's on
August 22nd 22nd it's at the student ministry center at Argyle United Methodist Church from
six to seven thirty and that's related to the Hickory Creek alignment where we had a
lot of citizen feedback and input about the alignment so we're going to meet them out
there look at different alignments we're going to have almost five or six alternatives receive
feedback which alignment is better and then we'll bring it as a council work session
item saying this is what we heard from the citizens this is what the alignments are pros
and cons and then recommendations great John can you send that time and date location out
to the committee yes we will if we can close that item I have a couple of items that I'd
like to see if they belong on the matrix or not but I'll take others first if you all
have matrix items I don't have matrix but I do have the construction report Forest Ridge
is not showing up on there the signs are out there right now saying that they're going
to start on the 19th but it's not on the street report on upcoming or existing projects I'll
check into that but that is definitely on the schedule okay my mind were still the conversation
on the taking back Elm and Locust and there was another question about why when is text
on or when the city going to redo them there's I guess some sections that are pretty bad
the pavement and my response was well I think they have to fix it before we take it back
and I don't know if that's correct or not and if there's a timeline on that but I did
notice it's still on the matrix and so I feel like that'll come back to us when we have
more information and then the crosswalks that the repainting of them when there's some schools
coming back in session I didn't know I saw that also on the matrix but I didn't know
another time so I was thinking so I think the first one Todd has an answer but with
the crosswalks one of the things that happened they were on schedule to be done for UNT campus
all the crosswalks around the campus as well as TWU and it includes the crosswalks that
are mentioned on the university at Bell and the other two locations with the DCT Quiet
Zone coming online and we felt that that was an important issue to address immediately
so we had to kind of move resources around but the sidewalk the crosswalks are still
on the plan and I think we've pushed that for a week or a couple weeks but we're getting
time on that definitely and Todd has a better answer with the turn back so oh sorry go ahead
we're currently in discussion with text out on the finalization of the MOU that would
involve all the turn back items and Elvin Locust is one piece of that but it's actually
all of 77 from I-35E north to 35 then it also includes FM 1515 pieces of 428 all those are
coming together we're doing the utility relocations right now on south Elmin Locust that has to
be done before we get any of the roadway work done and then we're finishing up plans for
all the north pieces of Elmin Locust up to University Drive for the utility relocations
we'll do the same thing we'll get ahead of text out they're just simply waiting on us
to get all the utilities moved and there are a lot of them in that right away water wastewater
storm water as soon as those are shifted and moved which is part of the pack four project
and then we have a subsequent one coming this coming year that'll go to construction then
text I can pave and they'll most likely start with Locust and go north all the way up to
University Drive from Eagle and then turn around and come down Elm and do it at that
time so we're gonna be tearing up the roadway places where there are bad spots currently
big potholes and such we'll temporarily patch them cover those until such time that takes
that redo redos the whole road thanks so we're in double overtime I'll just briefly say I'd
like to have a discussion in a future meeting just about the what happened regarding the
McKenna Park area with the roundabout with the trees with the house just you know I sit
on Committee on the Environment with this you know same group and well yeah and you
know I've seen the reports but I just would like to have a conversation about it and then
the other one is I don't know where it falls kind of seems to maybe fall between two stools
but I'd like to know whether there's an opportunity to look at adding to the rail trail signs
that you know there's a couple of pedestals that don't have signs on them deliberately
so so that we could add and I wonder you know where we might generate ideas for additional
ones and also there's a correction that needs to be made to one I say that as the person
who wrote them and I will personally pay for that one one sign that needs to be changed
where someone was left off of the women's interracial fellowship marker we're like now
in triple of overtime but go ahead can I just ask for staff's clarification when you're
wanting a conversation about trees for the location of the body brace scripture intersection
trees well can I get clarification just so that we know better what it is you're exactly
asked for what are you wanting there because well what's our procedure right because you
know I know that okay so forgive me for taking a little time to have a bit of the conversation
but I you know we made took special pains and committee on the environment to say that
the tree ordinance would apply to to the city as well but then there you know it doesn't
seem that there was a procedure that required us to do a tree survey in that area right
and then you know the outcome is different than I would have expected but also our knowledge
of you know the pre and of the preconditions in that area we didn't seem to have it so
so what is our process was it different than what it should be should it be changed also
what is the actual you know yeah just in kind of what was the sequence of events and so
to be clear you're wanting to know the sequence of events that led to that intersection and
then what we do to the removal of the trees and to end and and without plants without
knowing what trees without a survey the trees that are there or plan to mitigate as far
as I know maybe there is but you know I don't have visibility into all that so there is
a landscape plan coming that replaces I'm aware that and and takes care of those issues
the original alignment of Bonnie Bray I just were like I get that I truly want to have
this to hear your reply and that's fine we can do that I just need to know exactly what
it is we're addressing yeah I think you're you know you already have the information
you know I don't hope I'm not asking for anything you know new to go create but just want to
have the conversation okay add mobility or an indifferent venue I think I think it belongs
to me yeah okay okay thanks okay so entertain a motion to adjourn well then I bloody adjourn