1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,260 I'm going to call the meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission to order. 2 00:00:08,260 --> 00:00:13,980 It is Monday, June 10, 2024 at 5.30 p.m. 3 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:23,340 And if you will, we're going to stand and do the Pledge of Allegiance. 4 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:29,340 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for 5 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:38,040 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 6 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:48,680 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. 7 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,400 Thank you very much. 8 00:00:52,400 --> 00:01:01,420 And I do not see anyone in the audience, so I take it we do not have anyone for public comment. 9 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:04,400 Did you want to do an introduction? 10 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,920 Oh, that's item 3A. 11 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,400 Oh, that's where we're going, right? 12 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,520 That's where we are, oh, I know. 13 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,600 HLC item 3A, HLC 24-022. 14 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,800 We are going to introduce a new commissioner. 15 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,000 We have Commissioner Ethan Gillis. 16 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,000 Welcome. 17 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Thank you. 18 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,680 Did you want to do an introduction here, or did you want to count it? 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,680 I'll let you take the floor. 20 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,680 Sure, I appreciate it. 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:29,680 Well, hello everyone. 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:30,680 My name's Ethan Gillis. 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,680 I'm very excited to be with you all tonight. 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,400 A little bit about me, I'm currently wrapping up my studies at the University of North Texas. 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,000 I'm an advertising major there. 26 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,680 I've been very involved on campus over the last few years, really involved in our Student 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,880 Government Association, let our Student Alumni Association, and was recently appointed as 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,800 the student region for the University of North Texas system. 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,640 So, very proud of my institution and the city I've lived in for the last few years. 30 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,680 I was looking to get more involved in the community and this particular commission really 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,680 spoke to me. 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,880 As a kid, my grandma called me an old soul, which I translate to big nerd. 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:13,120 So, I was very interested in history and things of that nature growing up. 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,600 And when I was looking for ways to get involved in the community, this was one that spoke 35 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:17,600 to me. 36 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,960 You know, I have a lot of interest in local government and community and I'm really here 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,720 to learn and to grow and excited to be with this fantastic group. 38 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,800 So, thank you all so much for having me with you. 39 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,800 Well, welcome. 40 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:32,800 Welcome. 41 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:33,800 Did everyone get to meet me? 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:34,800 Did you give your names? 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:35,800 I'm Maddie. 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Commissioner Tepperman did. 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,800 Commissioner McAdams, did you get to? 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:38,800 I'm sorry. 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:39,800 Did you get to introduce yourself? 48 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:40,800 No, no. 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:41,800 But I'm Lainey McAdams. 50 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:42,800 Pleasure to meet you. 51 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,800 And you? 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,800 Always. 53 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,800 Dossel and easy to get along with. 54 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:48,800 Commissioner Tree, did you introduce yourself? 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:49,800 Sorry. 56 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,800 I didn't mean to laugh that loud. 57 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:51,800 You're still spicy, Lainey. 58 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:52,800 It's okay. 59 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:53,800 I'm Dr. Thomas. 60 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:54,800 I'm actually a former professor at the University of North Texas, local historian, D2 rep, and 61 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:55,800 also a big nerd. 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:56,800 So, you're in good company. 63 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:57,800 Good to hear. 64 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:58,800 And I'm Lainey McAdams. 65 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,800 It's a pleasure to meet you. 66 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:00,800 And always docile and easy to get along with. 67 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:01,800 Commissioner Tree, did you introduce yourself? 68 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,800 I'm sorry. 69 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:03,800 I didn't mean to laugh that loud. 70 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,800 You're still spicy, Lainey. 71 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:05,800 It's okay. 72 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:06,800 I'm Dr. Thomas. 73 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,800 I'm actually a former professor at the University of North Texas, local historian. 74 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:14,800 I'm a D2 rep, and also a big nerd, so you're in good company. 75 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:15,800 Good to hear. 76 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,800 All right. 77 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Thank you. 78 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,800 Welcome. 79 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:19,800 Thank you. 80 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:20,800 All right. 81 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,800 Item 3B, number HLC 2.4, initial rule 1.6 on our agenda is to approve a consideration 82 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,800 and approval of the May 13, 2024 minutes. 83 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Hope you've all had an opportunity to read those, and I will entertain a motion in a 84 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,800 minute, or any corrections. 85 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:38,800 I will. 86 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:39,800 Yes, online. 87 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:40,800 I read them. 88 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:41,800 So I will move their approval. 89 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:42,800 Okay. 90 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:43,800 And I'll second that. 91 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:44,800 All right. 92 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,800 With commendations on the presentations given. 93 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:46,800 There you go. 94 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,800 All right. 95 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:48,800 So motion by Commissioner McAdams, seconded by Commissioner Tree. 96 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:49,800 All in favor, please raise your hand. 97 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:50,800 All right. 98 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:51,800 Motion passes. 99 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,800 Commissioner Tree, do they have your name here? 100 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Because I think you were oversaw that, Lainey. 101 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:54,800 That is the rumor. 102 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Yes, ma'am. 103 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,800 So could we pass that down for you to sign for the minutes? 104 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:11,800 Sir, come on. 105 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:12,800 Thank you. 106 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,800 Happy to do it. 107 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:14,800 Thanks so much. 108 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:15,800 We are going to go now into our work session. 109 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:22,800 Item 4A, number HLC 2.4-021 on our agenda is to receive a report and hold a discussion 110 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,800 regarding different local level tax exemptions offered throughout Texas on historic properties. 111 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,800 And I think we have some handouts in front of you. 112 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:33,800 Yes. 113 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,800 Thank you, Chair. 114 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,800 So this evening, this is kind of a follow-up to our May 13th discussion. 115 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,800 As you all can see in front of you, we do have the presentation from May 13th for you 116 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:52,800 to reference throughout, but also Lacy has printed out the presentation for today because 117 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:53,800 there are lots of words. 118 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,800 I've tried to pare it down as much as possible, but you can only pare it down so much before 119 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,800 you start losing information. 120 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:02,800 So feel free. 121 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,800 I want this to be informal because I do want this to be a discussion. 122 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,800 So if you do have questions as I'm going through, please stop me and I'm happy to talk about 123 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,800 them or answer those questions, but I'm excited. 124 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,800 So the table of contents for tonight's presentation, the why, give me a brief overview of that 125 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:27,800 designated historic sites tax exemption that we discussed last month, the different examples 126 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,800 of other types of historic tax incentives in those different locations. 127 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,800 And then we'll be kind of looking at a comparison of Denton versus those other Texas cities 128 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,800 that I've covered and then any questions and discussion. 129 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,800 So the why, as I previously stated, this is a continuation of that May 13th discussion 130 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:53,800 talking about what if as a city we're doing enough to incentivize historic destinations 131 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:59,800 and also that will kind of lead into whether or not we make any improvements to our present 132 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,800 historic tax incentives program and then obviously educational purposes just to kind of see what 133 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,800 other cities are doing out there. 134 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:13,800 So a brief overview, as you all know, currently our tax exemption is 50% of the historic site 135 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,800 assessed value, which is that city property tax as you all learned last month, it lasts 136 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:26,800 10 years and you have to spend a minimum of $10,000 to even qualify or be eligible. 137 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:33,800 And those $10,000 need to be spent on permanent improvements and/or restoration to the property. 138 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:40,800 But as you all know, you can reapply every 10 years for this tax incentive as long as 139 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,800 you hit that $10,000 minimum. 140 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:48,800 So that's currently what we have for designated historic properties. 141 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:53,800 So I'm going to jump right into the other cities because they have lots of great information 142 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,800 and I'm really excited. 143 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:02,800 So in terms of San Antonio, two of the tax incentives I wanted to show you all have to 144 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:08,800 do with substantial rehabilitation and owner-occupied residents in new historic districts. 145 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:15,800 So when we're looking at the substantial rehabilitation, this is for local landmarks and properties 146 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,800 within local historic districts that are undergoing substantial rehabilitation. 147 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,800 It does remain with the property. 148 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,800 So if you sell your property, whatever it may be, that doesn't matter. 149 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:37,800 In terms of residential versus commercial, residential, they will freeze the city property 150 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,800 tax at the assessed value prior to rehabilitation for up to 10 years. 151 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,800 If you're looking at commercial, they split it into two sets of five years. 152 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,800 So the first five years, you're looking at no city property taxes are owed. 153 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,800 And then the next five years, the city property taxes are assessed at 50% of the post-rehabilitation 154 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,800 appraisal after that fifth year. 155 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,800 So basically like year six, essentially. 156 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:10,800 Then in terms of kind of ensuring that you're keeping your property up to date and making 157 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:16,800 sure that you're meeting the substantial rehabilitation, it does require certification by their 158 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,800 historic and design review commission, which in this case would be the historic landmark commission. 159 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,800 And that is prior to the project's implementation or permit acquisition. 160 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,800 So getting anything from our building safety team. 161 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,800 It does have to be verified by that commission upon completion. 162 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,800 So essentially once that work is completed, you all as a commission, they would come back through 163 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,800 and essentially show you all that we've completed our project. 164 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,800 We've matched everything that's required of what you approved. 165 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,800 Can we get the tax incentive? 166 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,800 And so that would go into effect on January 1st of the following year. 167 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,800 So same as our tax incentive currently. 168 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,800 The next one is for new historic districts. 169 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,800 I wanted to add this in here. 170 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 I know it's not necessarily individual landmark designation, but I think it's just as important 171 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,800 because it's looking specifically towards those owner-occupied residents. 172 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:15,800 So residential properties that are occupied by a property owner in a new historic district 173 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,800 are exempt from their city property or receive a 20% exemption on their city property taxes 174 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,800 for the first 10 years of that newly created historic district. 175 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,800 If they continue to be owner-occupied for the next five years following those 10 years, 176 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,800 they can continue to get that same tax exemption. 177 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,800 So essentially for 15 years, they can get 20% tax exemption off their city property taxes 178 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,800 if it continues to be owner-occupied in that new historic district. 179 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Currently, we do not have anything for our historic districts. 180 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:55,800 We only have tax incentives for individually landmarked properties. 181 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:56,800 I have a question. 182 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:57,800 Yes. 183 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Okay, so on the first one, the substantial rehabilitation, 184 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,800 when it says require certification of the historic design review kit, 185 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,800 if it's all inside, that's usually not our jurisdiction. 186 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:16,800 So are they saying that they are going into the property to get approval that way? 187 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:17,800 Yes. 188 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,800 Okay. 189 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,800 So even if it's HVAC and you're not seeing it, 190 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:27,800 they would be required to go inside or get photographs or whatever it may be 191 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,800 showing that that work is going to be taking place prior to approval. 192 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Okay, thank you. 193 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,800 Am I ready to move on? 194 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,800 Any other questions? 195 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,800 Okay. 196 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,800 So now we're jumping to Grapevine. 197 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,800 So Grapevine, they created the Township Revitalization Program, 198 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,800 also known as GTRP. 199 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,800 So this was a nonprofit that was actually established by their city council. 200 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,800 And this is to assist in preserving the cultural heritage 201 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,800 of the original Grapevine Township. 202 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,800 So there's a couple different incentives that come with this program. 203 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,800 The first one is city staff provides architectural design assistance at no charge 204 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,800 to the property owners to make sure that they're doing their preservation, 205 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,800 restoration, rehabilitation accurately. 206 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,800 The next thing is a matching grant program. 207 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,800 So as you can see from here, owner-occupant residential uses, 208 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,800 it's a two-to-one match, so they can get $10,000 max, 209 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,800 and they only have to spend up to $5,000. 210 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,800 But for their rental residential uses, 211 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,800 so if you had a duplex and you're renting out both of those units, 212 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,800 you would have to put up $5,000 and they could give you $5,000 for a one-for-one match. 213 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,800 But one of the things that is interesting here 214 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,800 is that you're allowed to request a waiver for more funds, 215 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,800 but it does have to be that owner-occupant residential use only. 216 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,800 And it does have to go through a review process, which makes sense. 217 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:11,800 But in terms of if they need additional assistance, they... 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,800 Let me backtrack. 219 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:19,800 There's so many words on these slides that I'm trying to remember. 220 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:20,800 Okay, near money. 221 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,800 So essentially what I'm saying is if they want more money, they can do it. 222 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,800 They're just going to have to prove it as to why they need additional funds 223 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,800 and, like I said, only owner-occupant residents. 224 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,800 In addition, they do accept donations, 225 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800 and they end up recapping them and preserving them 226 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,800 and moving them to the township if they're threatened by demolition. 227 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:49,800 And then they are actually made available for sale as a residence, 228 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800 which is pretty unique. 229 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,800 That's weird. 230 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,800 Is there a... 231 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:02,800 You know, like, you can re-up it after 10 years. Are there any stipulations here 232 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,800 on how many years, like, that matching health, and you can get it? 233 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,800 So I'm going to get to that towards the end of the presentation when I do a comparison. 234 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:11,800 Okay. 235 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,800 Yep. 236 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Any other questions? 237 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,800 I'll wait for the comparison. 238 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,800 Okay. 239 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,800 Okay, moving on to Fort Worth. 240 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:28,800 So historic site tax exemption, similar as we've heard from other cities, 241 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,800 it does require approval by staff before the renovation project begins, 242 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:39,800 and it also has to have a COA, also a certificate of appropriateness request, made. 243 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,800 And then at the end, it does require that landmark commission review and city council. 244 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,800 So essentially as part of the historic site tax exemption, 245 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:54,800 this increases the assessed valuation of the land improvements at the pre-renovation values, 246 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,800 and it does last up to 10 years. 247 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,800 So how you become eligible? 248 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,800 Is that the amount equal to or greater than 20% of the assessed valuation 249 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,800 of the improvements to be spent on rehabilitation? 250 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,800 That's just pre. 251 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,800 So they hold it with the pre-oppressed. 252 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,800 So whatever improvements they make. 253 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:19,800 Right. 254 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,800 Your benchmark is a little... 255 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Yes, yeah. 256 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,800 So if you continue to make improvements through those 10 years, 257 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,800 that's fine because you're still at the 10 years prior in terms of your pre-assessed value. 258 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,800 So that's what Fort Worth is working with, 259 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:42,800 and then it goes into effect January 1st of the year following city council verification. 260 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,800 Any questions? 261 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,800 There's a lot of... 262 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,800 We're jumping around. 263 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,800 Okay, McKinney. 264 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,800 So I actually was speaking with Keisha earlier. 265 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,800 I'm really excited about McKinney and Plano, 266 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:07,800 so I'll be very interested to see what you all think of their historic tax incentives. 267 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Once again, like I said, there's a lot of information. 268 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,800 This is why you have the printouts. 269 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,800 So in McKinney, they have a historic neighborhood improvement zone. 270 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,800 And essentially, this is a defined area where they feel that they're needing 271 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,800 building improvements specifically in historic neighborhoods. 272 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,800 As part of this improvement zone, there are three different levels of incentives. 273 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,800 The first one is if you're a historic marker, meaning you're a historic designated landmark. 274 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:41,800 The next one is a rehabilitation incentive where you're cut off at 40 years. 275 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,800 You have to be at least 40 years old, your structure, and then the preservation incentive. 276 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:54,800 So level one, this is a one-time, 100% exemption, and it lasts 10 years. 277 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:55,800 You cannot reapply. 278 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,800 Once that 10 years is over, you cannot reapply again. 279 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,800 So as I stated, you have to have received a historic marker designation. 280 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,800 It has to be that minimum 50 years old, which you all are very familiar with. 281 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,800 And the minimum investment has to be at least $10,000 in building improvements for the property. 282 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:20,800 And it has to be done the previous three years from the date of the request for a marker incentive. 283 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,800 The rehabilitation incentive is 50% exemption for 10 years. 284 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:32,800 But what's interesting here, level two, level three, after those 10 years are done, you can reapply again. 285 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,800 You can keep reapplying every 10 years for level two and level three. 286 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,800 But this is the one-time only exemption. 287 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,800 And as stated, you have at least 40 years. 288 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,800 You have to have a letter of eligibility from the city saying that, 289 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,800 verifying that proposed exterior or interior improvements qualify for that incentive. 290 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:59,800 And you have to have no later than 12 months following that letter that the owner completes 291 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,800 or allows to be completed the eligible improvements. 292 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,800 This is -- and that's a 50% exemption. 293 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:16,800 Basically, the exact same structure, preservation incentive, it's just 30% exemption. 294 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,800 Similar to other tax exemptions, it is transferable upon the sale of the property. 295 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,800 So it's tied to the property. 296 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,800 It's not tied to the property owner, which is really nice. 297 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,800 So it sticks with the property. 298 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:36,800 But then you must reapply each year to the appraisal district and undergo yearly inspections. 299 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,800 So each year, staff would go out January 1st or during the month of January, 300 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:48,800 essentially saying, hey, are you meeting the requirements to be eligible for this tax exemption every year? 301 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,800 If not, you have X amount of days to get it fixed or X amount of months. 302 00:17:53,800 --> 00:18:00,800 Okay, if you get that fixed, great, but if you don't get it fixed, then we take away your tax exemption. 303 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Any questions? 304 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Okay. 305 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,800 So the next one is Play Now. 306 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,800 So this is the heritage tax exemption program. 307 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:25,800 So as bolded here, it's a partial exemption based on the improvements value on the heritage property on a yearly basis. 308 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,800 So similar to McKinney, we kind of have like a tiered approach going on. 309 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,800 They have their class structures, Class A through D. 310 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:42,800 So if it's a Class A, it's exclusively for residential purposes and is designated as a local landmark. 311 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,800 And they can potentially receive up to 100 percent exemption. 312 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:53,800 If it's a Class B, it is occupied in whole or in part for purposes other than residential. 313 00:18:53,800 --> 00:19:00,800 It is also individually landmarked and can potentially receive up to 50 percent exemption. 314 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:09,800 C and D, well, C is exclusively for residential purposes, is contributing to a local historic district. 315 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,800 So that's where we're kind of pulling the historic district side of things. 316 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,800 They can potentially receive up to 75 percent exemption. 317 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:23,800 And then Class D is in whole or in part for purposes other than residential. 318 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:29,800 So it might be a mixed use and is also a contributing resource to a local historic district. 319 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,800 It can receive potentially 38 percent exemption. 320 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,800 I tried to find out why specifically 38, because that seemed like an interesting number. 321 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,800 I could not find out. I could not find out why. 322 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,800 So I'm going to keep digging into that, but very oddly specific. I agree. 323 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:54,800 But one of the great things about this as well, Plano Independent School District and Collin College is participating in this tax assumption program, too. 324 00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:03,800 So you have the city, the Plano ISD, as well as Collin College, who are both tax partners. 325 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:11,800 Point of clarification. Denton ISD also has, like, they participate in that tax exclusion. 326 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:18,800 Like if Dent were to have something like this, if they're a tax entity, we could ask. 327 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,800 But I'm just showing an example. Yeah, so we could. Yes. 328 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,800 Okay. Yeah. 329 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:31,800 So in this instance or this example, Plano does participate in this program. 330 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:37,800 I'm sorry, Ms. Tina. I think most school districts don't participate. Correct. 331 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,800 Yes, most school districts do not. But this is one of the rare instances where it does. 332 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,800 So I just wanted to highlight that and say that's that's pretty impactful. 333 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,800 That's why I said it in my spidey sense. I was like, wait. 334 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,800 Yeah, most ISDs do not. 335 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,800 So once again, city staff would have to survey every year. 336 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:06,800 It says yearly surveying, checking out, making sure that they're in compliance with this program. 337 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,800 And then kind of just to show you all what that next step is, 338 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,800 is they would allow property owners to appeal any repairs classified as poor 339 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,800 because staff would be giving them a report saying, hey, you're not in compliance. 340 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,800 We are rating you poor out of, you know, excellent, medium, whatever it may be. 341 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,800 And then they either have to finish it within a certain amount of time 342 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:40,800 or request a later deadline to complete those rated repairs so that they can continue to receive the tax exemption. 343 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,800 OK, so this is where we're kind of doing the comparison. 344 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,800 So Denton right now, as we discussed, is 50 percent of city property tax. 345 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,800 You have for 10 years, but you can reapply. 346 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,800 So you have to spend a minimum of ten thousand dollars in terms of improvement 347 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:04,800 or rehabilitation or improvement and/or restoration to your property. 348 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,800 Then when you look at San Antonio. So this is the historic district. 349 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,800 That's why it has its own little level. 350 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:15,800 But looking specifically at historic tax exemptions for historic properties. 351 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,800 Residential, the property taxes are frozen at the assessed value prior to rehabilitation. 352 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:29,800 It's 10 years. And then for commercial, there's no city property taxes owed for the first five years. 353 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:36,800 But then the next five years, it's assessed at that 50 percent of the post rehabilitation appraisal after year five. 354 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:45,800 So you're six. And those are set at those times like they don't reoccur. You can't reapply. 355 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:51,800 Greatvine is a matching grant for owner occupied and rental residential uses. It's a yearly basis. 356 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,800 So it's something that you can reapply for every single year. 357 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,800 And just a reminder, owner occupied is ten thousand dollars max with a five thousand dollar match. 358 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,800 Or rental residential is five thousand max with a five thousand dollar match. 359 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:16,800 Fort Worth is the assessed valuation freeze of the land improvements at pre renovation values. It's 10 years. 360 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:24,800 The amount is equal or greater than 20 percent of the assessed valuation of improvements be spent on rehabilitation. 361 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,800 So that's what you're getting your 20 percent off of. 362 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:36,800 In terms of McKinney, we have three levels of incentives. We have the 100 percent one time. 363 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,800 We have the 50 percent and 30 percent, which can be reapplied for every 10 years. 364 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,800 Level one, you have to spend a minimum of ten thousand dollars, same for level two. 365 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,800 And then level three is five thousand dollars. 366 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:57,800 In terms of Plano, it's a four tier class structure with one hundred fifty seventy five and thirty eight tax exemptions. 367 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800 And that's also a yearly basis. 368 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:09,800 So did it say a minimum has to be spent? No. 369 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:17,800 So it's improvements value. So it would be dependent upon what you're spending in terms of improvements. 370 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:34,800 And then once again, I wanted to highlight specifically the new historic district owner occupied residents with the 10 years with an additional five years possibility. 371 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:47,800 So kind of what I asked back in May, we have another new question. So what really I'm looking for is the city doing enough? 372 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,800 Do you all think the city is doing enough to incentivize residential historic destinations? Yes or no? Why? 373 00:24:52,800 --> 00:25:01,800 And of the city and systems that were presented, which you like or dislike and why? 374 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:08,800 It's a lot, but you have all the information at your fingertips. 375 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:20,800 I'm going to throw out some word salad just to start it off, because the thing that I find really interesting in looking at the comparison of the other cities 376 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:31,800 is I find certain facets that each of them do, which I assume is because of their their own kind of unique history in terms of like how much age that they're dealing with. 377 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Right. Like 40 years. Why not extend that to like 50 or 60 years? 378 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,800 Well, maybe they haven't been there that long, but that might be something that might be a factor. 379 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:58,800 And also, I'm finding very attractive the residential commercial distinction, the tier system in the sense that what it does is it helps to fulfill a couple of things that are in our matrix. 380 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:07,800 Just to tie that back into what we're interested in is figuring out how to increase interest in residences and residential folks. 381 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:16,800 And using, you know, just a benchmark, 10,000. And I see some of them, they're 5,000, which honestly, if you're living in an old place, that is not hard to hit. 382 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,800 You're probably going to hit that in a year if you're renting, right? 383 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:34,800 But as an incentive, I find that really attractive. I found that attractive idea just to be mindful of it. It provides an incentive, exactly what it's supposed to do. 384 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:48,800 I guess the other observation has to do with, yeah, the tier system. Plano's pretty complicated tier system. 385 00:26:48,800 --> 00:27:07,800 And then, yeah, having an ISD weigh in, because, yeah, that's kind of unique to actually go and make the ask, right? It's like, hey, are you willing to give up a little bit if this helps preserve this district? So, as promised, that's just a little word salad, but I'm really fascinated, this is really helpful. 386 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:27,800 By the way, thank you very much for this comparison, because it gives us a little bit of a yardstick to think about, because I guess my answer would be, are we doing enough? Probably not. So, not a yes or no. I'm not going to go with A or B, but I'll be like, probably not. But basically, how can we do better? 387 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:47,800 Interesting enough, you mentioned like the school taxes. Yeah. I wonder, like, the way that our historic districts are set, it would only be certain. That's correct. So, if you gave up that, I mean, I'm all for asking, but it really hits just certain areas. That's right. 388 00:27:47,800 --> 00:28:01,800 If you think about that, too. So, I don't know how likely they would be. Well, I think that would be worth that. I think that might be worth something like an economic analysis to see if some of these are wealthier districts, because that's worth asking. 389 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:16,800 Or some of them might be in the poorer districts. That's also worth asking, because in that sense, I think I would be inclined to say, hey, you know what, in a poorer district, I would ask, I wouldn't ask the ISD to contribute in. 390 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:26,800 What I would do is basically say, hey, can we focus on some of those districts and maybe lean in with incentives instead of making it $5,000, make it $6,000. You know what I'm saying? 391 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:42,800 Because some of those places that are more economically disadvantaged need maybe more attention and help. And to be able to flex it that way might be something I think that we could provide a good eye on with enough information to see which ISDs might qualify. 392 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:57,800 You know, I'm thinking about Southeast End specifically. I'm thinking about what are some homes over there. They've donated a couple of homes to our Historic Commission, the Woods House, and I think there are a couple other properties over there, honestly. 393 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:19,800 I'll defer to somebody, maybe we can bring in city staff to look at it, but I'm pretty sure that there are other quicker townhouses still over there that just haven't been, they're flying under the radar. Yeah, they're flying under the radar, because they're cheap and low cost. 394 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:43,800 That's a point of clarification just to make sure I understand. You mentioned Commissioner Treat doing an economic analysis based on the district. You're talking about the attendance zone, depending upon where the structure is located, if it's in a certain attendance zone of the school district, that it would be a potential different level of incentive provided. 395 00:29:43,800 --> 00:30:01,800 I seem to be recalling, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but we only have the one school district that all of Denton is part of, so we don't have multiple school districts that we're dealing with. You mentioned district, and so given how the discussion was going, I think you meant attendance zone. 396 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:15,800 I just want to make sure I was on the same page. That's a good clarification. Yes, thank you. Yeah, different attendance zones and different, you know, areas that are in need. Yes. 397 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,800 Any other commissioners have comments, questions, thoughts? 398 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:49,800 Well, I think we must never forget that in some of the poor areas in Denton State that may or may not be old enough to be historic, the people are having a real struggle simply to live, and they probably could never meet this $10,000 threshold. 399 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,800 $5,000 might be working, especially if they're working with the landlord. 400 00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:02,800 Isn't that great on the matching program there? 401 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:12,800 Yeah, the rental residential feature, a great find, right? Maybe you have a renter says, hey. 402 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:37,800 Mr. McAdams, anything else? No, I just think we have to bear that in mind, because if we're doing something that we want, buy in from the general public, there's really nothing to offer to the poor people who have a historic house. 403 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,800 Mr. Teflon, how about you? 404 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:54,800 Well, just clarification on this match. Is that like the city's actually what's for great part? Somebody puts in $10,000, the city throws in an extra $5,000? Okay. 405 00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:09,800 Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, the $10,000 bet, because I mean, even though things are more expensive now, it's still a decent chunk of money. 406 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:24,800 Are people really seeing over that tenure? And it's also just a clarification, maybe it's $10,000 at the beginning when you apply, right, to get this historic landlord designation. 407 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:36,800 Oh, which one are you talking about? For ours. For ours? So you'd have to have the designation already, then spend the $10,000. So we don't actually even review. 408 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:46,800 Unlike other cities, we don't review necessarily people's work because they might not require a historic landmark commission or HPO review. 409 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:53,800 They might just be doing HVAC or something, and they have to bring those building permits as part of their package. 410 00:32:53,800 --> 00:33:12,800 But there's no oversight by the commission, unlike some of the others where before you even apply, the commission or staff would be doing a kind of overview, then they could apply and then we would make sure that the project got completed so that they can receive the exceptions. 411 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,800 So having a little bit more, I guess, oversight of what's going on. 412 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:28,800 Yeah, I thought that was interesting. Was it Plano or McKinney that they came in there and can say that your repairs report? 413 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:38,800 That's Plano. Is that Plano? But the same thing goes for McKinney where they have yearly inspections. 414 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:56,800 So I might be able to offer a little bit of insight on Plano's property. Since you're a more recent employee there than I am, but many years ago when I worked there, I was part of the staff team that would have to go out and assist with the inspections. 415 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:09,800 And we had a set of criteria that we evaluated the homes. We were only looking at the exterior and what we could see from the public right away. So we weren't necessarily fully wandering in on people's property. 416 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:31,800 But if it had a poor designation, then in all likelihood there was significant presence of items not being maintained. So one of the things that we would look for is if there was fencing, was the fencing being maintained? Were the pickets all vertical or were they experiencing leaning associated with them? 417 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:44,800 With the structure itself, being that there's painted siding involved, was there exposed wood or what did it look like? All of the wood surfaces were protected because that in terms of property maintenance issues. 418 00:34:44,800 --> 00:35:01,800 But there were a list of criteria that we would look for. And people took the inspections typically very seriously, especially if we had someone who received a poor designation because then they weren't able to receive that full exemption. 419 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:15,800 And so, you know, many times then it was the property owners contacting staff saying, because we'd send them a letter and let them know, and we would inform them of this and they're like, how much time do I have to get these items rendered, right? 420 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:24,800 Because I still want to apply. But it was, you know, as the program is structured, it was to try to provide greater incentive for the residential properties. 421 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:33,800 But, you know, we would go out every January, which is always a fun time to go to inspections in Texas. It was either beautiful days or really cold days or both. 422 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:43,800 But it was fairly straightforward in how we administered. We tried to make it less subjective and more objective, hence the criteria. 423 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:54,800 And we would go out in teams, right? So that a team of individuals is looking at a property. And so it's just not one person's opinion as it related to the enforcement of that project. 424 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:05,800 And I don't know if Keisha had any more recent experience that I had with it. But it was fairly straightforward in the administration of the program. 425 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:18,800 Sure, definitely. Do you have more? Yeah, you know, I don't have a whole lot more. I'm just looking at how these different students do things. 426 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:35,800 Yeah, I think my thought also is just, you know, 10,000 seems like a decent shot, right? To put in for really the benefit is 50 percent city tax for 10 years. 427 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:53,800 So are there any? I guess part of this is also the relatively new commission and also beneficial, hopefully, to some of the other new folks here. Is that, I mean, is there, like, is there this restrict your building to sell a house? Does it make it easier to sell a house? 428 00:36:53,800 --> 00:37:08,800 With the tax? Well, I guess with the tax exemption, but would make it easier to sell a house. But people look at it and say, oh, well, it's historic. Are there restrictions only you can do with your house? Also. 429 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:20,800 The uses are not something that we necessarily have control over. It's more just the exterior of your property that we're concerned about. 430 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:39,800 How about you? Yeah, I think a lot of my initial thoughts and sentiments, the ones that echo a lot of what's been said, I know I had some I was curious about the Plano ISD by end of things, and I was also curious about how sort of the enrollment zones work. 431 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:59,800 Especially if there's a question says, like, you know, incentivization of residential districts, right, considering that attendance zone, I think it's really important. But I think a lot of my thoughts echo that, which have been said, and I'm also still learning a lot. 432 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:12,800 So if y'all have more time in, I think that where I have questions are on the ones that have the assessed value before improvement and after improvement. 433 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:24,800 And the reason is, is because after improvement, if I do something on the inside, nobody knows that the people that are assessing my house for value don't know what all I've done. 434 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,800 Replacing HVAC does not get me more tax value. 435 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:46,800 So that, I don't know, I'm a little iffy on that because I don't know that that's a benefit. I think it's a benefit. If you're going to do a complete remodel, and you're spending way more than the 10,000 that it could be seen, then I definitely could see that. 436 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,800 So I don't really know advantages of that. That's my first thought. 437 00:38:51,800 --> 00:39:02,800 The other thing that I don't see here is a time frame, and a time frame of if you start a repair and when it has to be finished. And maybe that's all when they're fine print, but I didn't see that on any of those. 438 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:13,800 So if it's a 10,000, 10,000 per year, like I can sit, I do a lot of different repairs. Here's my 10,000 for the year. Does that make sense? 439 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,800 In terms of like if you're using Grapefinance example? 440 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,800 Yeah, the ones that have, yes. 441 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,800 So like Grapefinance for example, it truly just set a yearly basis and it's based off the fiscal year. 442 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,800 So you would just have to utilize that. 443 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,800 Okay, so not just on one project. 444 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:36,800 Okay, that was another thought that I had. The other thing was, 445 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,800 when you look at repairs, I think that 10,000 is a, this day and time, 446 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,800 I'd say it is a large chunk of change for people to come up with right now. 447 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,800 On the flip side, there's not a whole lot you can do for less than that. 448 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,800 So that's where I'm going back and forth on repairs that people can do themselves. 449 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,800 If we're talking about just a fence and doing fence, fencing, those types of things you can, 450 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:09,800 that's going to cost you, you know, maybe a few hundred dollars, not really even in the thousands, although you can get there. 451 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,800 I'm just telling you where my mind goes. You're going to think lady, you're crazy for all of this. 452 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,800 But this is where my mind is going with it. 453 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,800 Because when you do major repairs, only because I live in one of these homes, 454 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,800 there is not a whole lot you can do for less than 10,000, even a new HVAC system, by the way. 455 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,800 You know, so you think about those things. 456 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,800 And so I think we have to think about all of that. 457 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:42,800 I do think that 10,000 is a large chunk of change for people that could do smaller things to help the value, 458 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,800 to help to restore smaller things that they could do. 459 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,800 I kind of lean that that direction. 460 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,800 I don't think that it has to be a big, huge remodel. 461 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,800 When I say remodel, restoration, it doesn't have to be big, I think. 462 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,800 So those are my thoughts there. 463 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:13,800 Well, Councilwoman Stripley, on that note, I'm totally with you because the thing that kind of interests me 464 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,800 about the $5,000 match, which is a lower match, because you're right. 465 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:25,800 And I went to grad school starving in 1940s-era houses, and I did a lot of repairs and things myself in there. 466 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:32,800 And that was part of the go-along with the guy that was written to me because he was restoring them on the side. 467 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,800 And I was like, "Eh, I can do some work. He'll build the architecture. You bet." 468 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,800 But you're right. 469 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:49,800 One of the things that I see as being an advantage of this kind of lower, maybe rental residential $5,000 match is that people twofold. 470 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,800 First of all, if they know they can get a match, 471 00:41:52,800 --> 00:42:02,800 then that may mean the difference between doing a patch job for $2,000 and doing it kind of right to hit that five. 472 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:03,800 Does that make sense? 473 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:11,800 And then the additional benefit to that is by participating in the program there on our radar. 474 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,800 So that becomes an incentive, whereas that property may have totally been off radar before. 475 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:25,800 That then provides a lower benchmark to get, again, this kind of lower threshold, but also lower income, right? 476 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,800 This is a property that maybe somebody bought. 477 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:37,800 I mean, yeah, the ones that I lived in in Baton Rouge for a while, good Lord, they bought them and moved the houses on a truck and put them down on a new foundation. 478 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,800 It was like pier and beam stuff, like out of the late '40s. 479 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,800 But yeah, that would put stuff like that maybe on our radar. 480 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,800 What is our goal for an incentive? 481 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,800 I think we have to think of that. 482 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,800 Is the goal to have an incentive to have more historic structures come on board? 483 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:03,800 Or is the goal for the incentive for them to keep up with what is there already, like to help restore, to help repair? 484 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,800 That's right. 485 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,800 Well, that's my fascination with the tier system, right? 486 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,800 Which gets a little more complex is because I feel like that tier, like you've got to have some type of on-ramp, 487 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:18,800 because then if, you know, there's some property owners, because honestly, we're also not dealing with single property owners anymore. 488 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:26,800 I read a Fort Worth article that said one in four, one in three rental properties is now owned by a company. 489 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:35,800 So this is an incentive that if they could see the appeal of that, would have a mass effect in pretty short order. 490 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:44,800 I think, though, we see, I've seen over the last couple of weeks, there is a rental property on my street, 491 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,800 and the gentleman that is occupying it, that's the renter, is interested in purchasing. 492 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,800 And there would be a lot of repairs that would need to be done. 493 00:43:53,800 --> 00:44:01,800 So I think about that on, you know, you're purchasing something, then you had to turn around and you got to sink money into it, too. 494 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,800 What would be an incentive here? How could we help? 495 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:10,800 So to answer that question, are we doing enough? 496 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:18,800 After seeing this in this conversation, I was with you on, I don't want to say yes or no, but I'm going to say, probably not. 497 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:24,800 Probably not doing enough. 498 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,800 There's my fault. 499 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:35,800 I'll say I just want to jump in real quick in terms of my devil's advocate in terms of you're looking at rental residential. 500 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:43,800 They qualify for state and federal funding, which owner occupied residential buildings don't qualify currently. 501 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,800 So those corporations currently are equal. 502 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:54,800 They can already be applying for those where owner occupied don't have that opportunity. 503 00:44:54,800 --> 00:45:02,800 So it's also looking at should we be incentivizing commercial and more of those income producing residential properties at the local level? 504 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:09,800 Or should we leave that to state and federal and let's handle owner occupied buildings at the local level? 505 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:17,800 So I just want to throw that into is kind of that's also another aspect of everything. 506 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:24,800 And one of the things I just want to kind of also point back to. 507 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,800 Die or did I just click? Okay, there we go. 508 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:35,800 So kind of chair shriveling, how you're talking about. 509 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,800 You're talking about how everything's it's expensive nowadays. 510 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:53,800 But what these different programs are looking to do is especially I'm just going to piggyback to Plano because we were all kind of surprised at the Plano Independent School District is involved in Collin College. 511 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,800 Those are in addition to your city property taxes. 512 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:13,800 So if we look at our so say your city property taxes are $3,000 and you're getting 50% then you're getting 50% of your Plano Independent School District as well as 50% of your Collin College. 513 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:28,800 So you're getting potentially $14,000 in savings on your taxes for that year to put towards maintenance of your home. 514 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:43,800 Yes, because they're a community college district survey. 515 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:57,800 When you have a community college districts, they they're a function of the county basically right so there is a or a couple to function of the county so you have your county district tax you also have your calling in our case of our college district tax. 516 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:14,800 We have our independent school district tax and then you have the city tax on it so but yes it is it's typically the what Collin College charges homeowners the taxation rate is is very low compared to the other taxing entities. 517 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:35,800 The one thing I would offer it so knowing that Plano's program has been a while or has been around a while and probably when the program was established. It was a growing community and so and keep in mind school taxation and how school funding occurs has truly evolved over the years. 518 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:52,800 But, you know, their ordinance was likely adopted at a time when the community was growing. And so, the, I think it would be an interesting conversation if Plano were to if this program was trying to be rolled out today. 519 00:47:52,800 --> 00:48:06,800 I'd be curious as to whether or not the school district would be participating in the program today compared to when this was originally offered, because Plano in the early 1990s is very different than Plano today. 520 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,800 The issues that the school district are facing are different. 521 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:34,800 You know that just the overall school district financing and how that is today is very different. So, you know, I think, you know, if what we've heard from a couple of homeowners here in Denton is that, wow, would be really great if the ISD participated in in providing some sort of tax relief, because they find that that could be a benefit, especially for the owner occupied structures. 522 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:47,800 To the point that was made earlier, I think we would have to do an economic analysis if we were to go to the school district and saying, hey, we would love for you all to consider participating in a tax exemption program based upon our numbers. 523 00:48:47,800 --> 00:49:07,800 Here's what we'd estimate how much of a loss in revenue it would be to the school district. You know, in exchange for the loss of revenue to your school district, you know, here's what the community as a whole benefits in the district. So we would have to show what benefits the school district potentially receives on the other side of things, right? 524 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:17,800 As a result of the loss of revenue. I just think that the conversation is much different today when it comes to school district financing compared to when Plano's program was put forth. 525 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:30,800 Do we know, you said they participate in it, but do we know how? Do we know what percentage, is it some percentage off of the tax for each one for Plano, ISD, and college? 526 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,800 I believe it follows the same class structures, but I can confirm and let you all know. 527 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:52,800 Okay. That would be, that would be worth knowing because if it's at 80 points, 100% or 75%, that's a lot. That's a huge incentive program, and I'm with you, Tina. I don't know that they would today. 528 00:49:52,800 --> 00:50:07,800 You know, we have school districts around, very near, that are closing schools, that are shortage of teachers, all of all of those things, so. 529 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:21,800 Any other thoughts on that? I thought that was good discussion. It was interesting to see. I love that comparison of all of those and what they're doing and what, that's, I think that's neat, but I think that it's worth, 530 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:30,800 my opinion is I think it's worth us looking more into and brainstorming more on what we could do. 531 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:59,800 What city council would approve us to do? Well, so to that point too, like, who do we talk to, to see the level of interest in this, right? So, I guess point of order question for the chair is, is there something that we need to push forward, going forward, in order to look at something like this as an agenda item, or is something that we want to, 532 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:15,800 more develop and through the matrix, this is already part of the matrix, and do we want to like fill it out a little more and say, hey. One of the things in the past that we've worked on, started working on, are things that qualify. 533 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:32,800 What actually qualifies a restoration, a preservation, and it can be, I mean, do you want to put a, it has to be on this list, or it can be a whole other things, it's just how do you know, does that make sense? 534 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:58,800 So, to me, we have to understand that side too, or is it just you spend that much on the property and you're going to get a tax exam. But I think that in previous councils, that has been their ask of us to come back and come up with a list, and I'm going to tell you that time, I was on that committee. 535 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,800 It's really, it's hard to do. It's extremely hard to do. 536 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:25,800 So, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. And just to be back off, what Chair Strickland said is that, in addition to that, council has mentioned in the past, some, the council has been split in terms of, should new improvements count towards a tax incentive, in terms of like a large scale improvement, 537 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:39,800 versus something that actually keeps the character and the scale and the massing of the home intact. So what are we defining in terms of, where are we pushing the boundaries in terms of what is a historic property, essentially. 538 00:52:39,800 --> 00:53:00,800 Let me give you an example personally that I can give. Our home was built in 1942. A swimming pool was put in in 1960-something. Payback blocks is what the pool is built out of. 539 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:17,800 I cannot tell you how much money I had spent on that swimming pool. I mean, I'm serious. But, is it preservation for a swimming pool? Do you see what I'm saying? Where I'm going with this? It was built, it still has the center box, it's really cool, but it takes a lot. 540 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:35,800 I mean, I've had to redo the whole thing. I spent probably well over 10,000, you know, every so many years. So you think about that, which is not a structure, it's on the property, but it's not the structure. Do you want to just make it structures? 541 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:52,800 So I look at all those things that can come in, that weave in, and you go, man, you know, it's leisure. It's the home. So, does that make sense to you guys? 542 00:53:52,800 --> 00:54:05,800 Contributing, does it contribute to the significance of the property? Oops, sorry y'all. Mission Halloween. I thought I blocked it, I guess. 543 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,800 We're going to do Halloween tomorrow, you alright? 544 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:17,800 I just turned that up to see the wide variety of what this task is. 545 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:45,800 It gets granular, yeah. Because to your point, you know, if accessory structures such as freestanding garages that were detached were typical of how homes were built, you know, 50 years ago, and someone needs to rebuild or significantly restore their accessory structure, i.e. their garage, 546 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:54,800 then, you know, would that be a qualifying expenditure or not, right? So, I mean, similar kind of like your swimming pool example. 547 00:54:54,800 --> 00:55:02,800 So it's, you know, this swimming pool may or may not have been something that was typically built back in that time when the house was originally constructed. 548 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:12,800 Maybe it was, right? And so it's to your point that that fine granular level, you're right, counts at one point in time. We were going to look further into that. 549 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:21,800 Yeah, it's something you have to define that, a place to start defining those types of things. 550 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:27,800 Can I ask a question? We're a bit too meandering with this. 551 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:35,800 Are you looking for direction from them on which of these strategies to go make a draft of, or? 552 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,800 No, no direction, just more discussion. 553 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:50,800 Okay, I just want to make sure we're not getting too off of what these local programs are and into what we think we could do, you know, a little less. 554 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,800 Understood, yeah, more towards a matrix item. 555 00:55:53,800 --> 00:56:02,800 Yeah, if you have an idea you want to bring exactly, we have an item later for the matrix and you can talk about putting that on the matrix. 556 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:11,800 I think just to kind of summarize the whole goal though of this presentation or these two presentations collectively has been to share with Commission what we currently do. 557 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:19,800 What other cities do to get you thinking about whether or not we are doing enough when it comes to encourage historic preservation. 558 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:33,800 If you think that we're not, then providing that guidance and direction or an item for the matrix at a later point to give us better direction on where we need to focus our efforts. 559 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:49,800 We wanted to bring this forth because we've received a few inquiries or concerns expressed by residents who are owners of historic properties. We know that there are not nearly the amount of tax program benefits that are out there, particularly for owner occupied. 560 00:56:49,800 --> 00:57:10,800 So if our goal is to encourage preservation of existing historic structures, particularly from a residential use standpoint, then in the future we would be looking for your direction as to whether or not we want to advance that further or not. 561 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:16,800 And we can bring it to your point at the time when we have a matrix discussion. 562 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:25,800 That's a great note. So I'm going to change my answer to no, I don't think we're doing enough. Yes, I think we should probably revisit aspects of this. 563 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:47,800 I guess I think we should look at these other comparable city models for ways that we might create a more robust program than the one currently in use. That would just be my desire to put that forward for discussion. 564 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:57,800 To turn that into a motion. 565 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:16,800 All right, thank you for that. We're going to move on to item for be HLC two four dash zero to zero on our agenda is to receive a report, hold the discussion and give staff direction on the historic landmark commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. 566 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:25,800 Does anybody have a property that they wanted to present and give a two minute pitch. 567 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:44,800 We have the floor. All right. So, it's gonna be. Do you need this now. So they're actually to them to the not necessarily to properties. 568 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:56,800 The first is going to be the White House. I don't know if they're on our radar, you're not in the event proper. 569 00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:22,800 Part of it might be. Are you familiar with the White House community here. Okay. So, and so back in the day, there's a group of kids in the 1960s early 70s, created a community just north of the city here, and they have in ground houses, they're made out of concrete, they're definitely weird, funky, interesting. 570 00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:35,800 I've written several articles about them. I also am currently working with some people there on archiving, the things that they do, because what most people don't realize is the white hop community. 571 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:53,800 Lenny even remembers this, they were actually supposed to be a network of these like, you know, self sustaining and they were into like green and solar and growing their own food and all this in the 1970s. And so they were connected by newsletters and also, you know, traveling. 572 00:59:53,800 --> 01:00:09,800 So that's one, white hop community. The second one is the Burger Place. I'd like to learn more about the Burger Place. Mr. Prostons, yes, because they're looking at retirement, they're looking at selling in like 30 seconds. Where am I? 573 01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,800 38. Okay, done. Thank you. 574 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:19,800 Thank you. All right, anyone else? 575 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:41,800 So we do have to vote to have that placed on staff's agenda to reach out to them for potential land marking or in regards to the white hop community, it is not within city boundaries from my understanding. So that's something that we have to approach the county about to speak with the Denton County Historical Commission. 576 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:50,800 We do not designate anything outside of the Denton County Historical Commissioners and the Commissioner's Court. So we'd have to connect with on that because the one that has jurisdiction or authority there. 577 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:58,800 Yeah, yeah. So white hop, yeah, they would be dealing with state, federal or county level designation. 578 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,800 Did we vote on Mr. Prostons a couple meetings ago? 579 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:12,800 There was a discussion, but we did not, but there was no vote. Okay, so I'll entertain a motion for Cameron for us to pursue Mr. Prostons. 580 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,800 You're going to make the motion? 581 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:21,800 Talk to them, anybody that may need to contact it. I'll have them make contact. 582 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:27,800 All right, this would be just to start the group, just to start. So do we have a second? 583 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,800 I'll second. Okay. All in favor, raise your hand, please. 584 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:36,800 I sort of think it would be a good idea to prep them first. 585 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:44,800 Yeah, I'm pretty sure they may just get hurt if they know what I'm all about. 586 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:54,800 All right, item 4C, HLC 24-019 on our agendas to hold a discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 587 01:01:54,800 --> 01:02:00,800 Yes, here we go. So we're at the matrix point. 588 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:11,800 So, Commissioner Gillis, just to give you some idea of what this is. So at the end, this is a reoccurring agenda item, similar to item 4B. 589 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:23,800 Essentially, it's any requests by either staff, myself as the HPO or the HLC in terms of additional research of topics that we're interested in. 590 01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:32,800 So as you can see from here at the top of the request, it was a request made for discussion regarding benefits for preserving historic properties and how other cities are incentivizing owners. 591 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:43,800 So that was presented. So it's just giving a status update. To have it added to the matrix, you do need to at least a minimum of three people who want to support you in adding that to the matrix. 592 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:54,800 But it's also items for Historic Landmark Commission's consideration and then annual updates. I'll give those. And then it does give future HLC meetings at the bottom. 593 01:02:54,800 --> 01:03:04,800 So just wanted to kind of give you a background. But Commissioner Treat, this would be the opportunity to add at this point. 594 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:19,800 The motion to add items to revisit our historic preservation. Is this the plan or is it? Incidence. 595 01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:47,800 I'm going to make a motion. I'm going to see what we're discussing. Really, you just have to say what it is and when you just say it, I think you want the agreement and then raise your hand. So I just would like clarification. So to revisit, what do you mean to a discussion about trying to make it more robust and perhaps bring in ideas and incentives that are used in other places as a way to enrich the breadth, appeal and robustness of our program. 596 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:56,800 Okay, so is there a second? We will take a second. Is there a second? Thank you for that. I want everybody to raise your hand. 597 01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:01,800 Okay, unanimous for that. Easy, easy. 598 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:11,800 All right on to number five. Does any of the commissioners have anything else? Any business to discuss? 599 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:26,800 No. All right. Any of the staff? Anything to add? I am going to adjourn the meeting. It is adjourned at 634 feet. 600 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,600 - Thank you, excellent presentation. 601 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:29,440 - Yes, it was.