WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.660 Alright everyone, welcome to Sustainability Framework Advisory Committee. 00:00:08.660 --> 00:00:11.880 It is June 7th at 1 o'clock. 00:00:11.880 --> 00:00:17.040 We are in the City Council Work Session Room and we do have a quorum today. 00:00:17.040 --> 00:00:25.280 Just a couple of things, we will be moving item C, Reissued Report, Hold a Discussion 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:33.000 and Give Staff Direction regarding the value of solar study under item A and then B will 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:38.760 come after that and then we will have a couple of speakers before that item. 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:43.760 So we will first continue with items for individual consideration. 00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:48.560 Consider approval of the February 23, 2024 minutes. 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:56.360 Does anyone have any comments or questions about those? 00:00:56.360 --> 00:01:03.840 Okay and so we have a first and a second, all in favor of approval of the minutes? 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.840 Aye. 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:12.000 Alright so we will move on to the next item which will be C and we do have a couple of 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.000 speakers requesting to speak. 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.960 Catherine, do you know, do they get two or three minutes? 00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:28.120 Is it normally, what is normally, I think we're done for in the past, up in the past. 00:01:28.120 --> 00:01:32.840 So we will give them three minutes and you can come up and speak and we are using the 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:39.760 mics from the ceiling and as soon as your time is up, your time is up. 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:46.640 Alright so the first speaker, we will receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:51.800 direction regarding the value of solar study and the speakers are speaking directly to 00:01:51.800 --> 00:01:52.800 this item. 00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:53.800 Alright. 00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:54.800 Who's first Catherine? 00:01:54.800 --> 00:01:55.800 Bill Maness. 00:01:55.800 --> 00:01:56.800 Bill. 00:01:56.800 --> 00:02:20.920 I just decided five minutes ago to speak, I want to thank the committee for allowing 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:22.640 me to speak. 00:02:22.640 --> 00:02:31.000 I'm speaking regarding to item C which is now item A, I think, DME's proposal which 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:39.280 I haven't heard but I just, over the last two years DME has taken several actions regarding 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:40.280 solar panels. 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:49.720 I'm a solar panel owner but my interest is more in the city as a whole and I've heard 00:02:49.720 --> 00:02:58.240 a lot of, I've even gone on video and listened to some meetings here and from my view, when 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.440 DME speaks, they speak for DME. 00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:07.520 I don't think they speak that much for the city as a whole and when they're arguing, 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.240 making an argument, they don't get both sides. 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:15.840 They're going to give you all the items, all the facts that support their view and their 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.520 change and that's all they do. 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:23.400 And I was just amazed where the committee doesn't hear the other side. 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:28.360 So don't expect an unbiased view from these guys. 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:29.360 That's all I have. 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:30.360 I'll leave. 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:31.360 I'm out. 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.360 Thank you. 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.360 And I do have one more speaker signed up. 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:52.920 Thank you for considering this item. 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:57.200 Environment Texas, I'm with Environment Texas, I'm the North Texas City Hall advocate for 00:03:57.200 --> 00:03:58.640 Environment Texas. 00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:01.840 We are not in favor of moving away from net metering policies. 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:08.000 If anything, we are for advancing net metering policies across the state. 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:13.800 Net metering policies dramatically increase the benefits of solar for homeowners. 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:19.600 You are much more likely to install solar on your home if you have net metering in your 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:20.600 district. 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:24.320 Our reports across Texas and across California have shown this. 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:31.720 Meanwhile, in California, as is seen in the report, has moved to the net energy metering 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.720 3.0, which is somewhat similar to this point. 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:42.840 And what we've seen is 17,000 solar industry layoffs, mass bankruptcies across the solar 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:48.400 in California, and a complete flatlining of rooftop solar across the state. 00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:51.920 What we don't want to see is that here in Texas. 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:58.080 Specifically here in Denton, the report says that there is not really any real pollution 00:04:58.080 --> 00:05:05.200 or greenhouse gas benefits from keeping the net energy metering policy because Denton 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:09.360 Municipal Electric already has power purchase agreements. 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:15.240 That is not true because every time somebody brings on more solar energy on their rooftop, 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.160 they are adding renewable energy to the grid. 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:22.440 The net total of renewable energy across the state does increase. 00:05:22.440 --> 00:05:29.280 By stopping that increase here in Denton, we are, in effect, preventing future growth 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:31.760 of renewables in the county. 00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:36.920 So for these reasons, environment taxes is opposed to a change from the metering. 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:37.920 Thank you. 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:38.920 Thank you. 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:39.920 Great. 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:51.000 So we will continue with a presentation on the item, and we have some out of town guests 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:52.000 today doing that presentation for us. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.000 Yes ma'am. 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.000 Good afternoon, Madam Chair, committee members. 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000 I'm Bill Shepard with DME. 00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:02.240 And before I introduce who's going to be doing the presentation, I just wanted to remind 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.880 everybody about the conversations that we've had about a year ago. 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:12.120 We came through and talked about the solar program, as well as the green sense program, 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:17.840 and made a couple of recommendations back then, and with feedback from you all, feedback 00:06:17.840 --> 00:06:23.240 from the PUB, and feedback from some council members, we sort of backed up, backed up and 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:27.840 regrouped a little bit, and we did hear a lot about the value of solar. 00:06:27.840 --> 00:06:31.580 We want to see what the value of solar is here at Denton. 00:06:31.580 --> 00:06:37.160 So with that, we commissioned the same company that did the value of solar study for Austin 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:43.960 Energy, and Ms. Jill Schupbach is here with that company, NUGEN, to go over those results. 00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:50.280 You've already got the report, as well, that was a conclusion of the study. 00:06:50.280 --> 00:06:55.920 And at the end, we'll have our staff recommendations, and I'll come up and talk about those. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.000 And what we're hoping for is to get your support moving forward with that. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:04.080 And also, if I could ask to hold questions until the end, that way we'll get through 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:05.080 the presentation. 00:07:05.080 --> 00:07:08.680 It's not a terribly long presentation, but that way we can sort of have a good two-way 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:09.680 conversation. 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:10.680 All right, Jill. 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:11.680 Thank you. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.680 Thank you for having me. 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:32.940 Okay, so today we'll cover the value of solar methodology, the components that we looked 00:07:32.940 --> 00:07:33.940 at. 00:07:33.940 --> 00:07:37.120 We'll review the findings of our research and our analysis. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:41.680 We'll look at some bill impacts and then staff recommendations. 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:46.360 So the value of solar represents the energy purchased from a customer that's valued above 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.040 the avoided cost, based on utilities policies. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.040 The value of solar methodology has three components. 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:56.280 The avoided cost, which is your left column, the middle column, which is societal benefits, 00:07:56.280 --> 00:07:59.800 and the last column, which is policy-driven incentives. 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:07.020 The avoided cost column, this is the cost, the actual instant cost that Denton receive, 00:08:07.020 --> 00:08:11.600 or the avoided cost that Denton has, the savings that they have, by not having to buy any of 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.320 the additional power, because the customer is now generating their own power. 00:08:16.320 --> 00:08:18.800 Avoided costs over the years have been calculated many ways. 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:24.920 This has been around since the '70s from some federal legislation. 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.280 So of the many ways you can look at it, we've calculated it two ways. 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:32.480 We've looked at the ERCOT market, because Denton is in the ERCOT market, and we also 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:35.600 looked at Denton's existing solar purchase power agreements. 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.280 The second piece of that is societal benefits. 00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:47.440 This is the benefit of not emitting more greenhouse gases or more carbon, and in societal benefits, 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:52.800 there's not a federal market for greenhouse gases or a state market, but there are other 00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.000 ways to measure it. 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.880 There's multiple groups that have measured it, including the federal government. 00:08:56.880 --> 00:09:02.160 There is a market in the Northeast for greenhouse gases also, and depending on the study, the 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:09.760 benefit of not emitting another ton of carbon varies from one cent to eight cents per kilowatt 00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:10.760 hour. 00:09:10.760 --> 00:09:15.880 The policy-driven incentives part, there are state and federal policies that support rooftop 00:09:15.880 --> 00:09:20.520 solar and renewables and solar generation, but this part is more driven on local policy 00:09:20.520 --> 00:09:23.800 and what Denton's local policies and city council policies are. 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:29.120 So for example, Denton's already 100% renewable, and that's based on city council policy and 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.120 decisions that city council has made. 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:36.960 Denton has also, for over a decade, been incentivizing rooftop solar through their rebates and their 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:37.960 net billing programs. 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:45.640 So first, we'll talk about avoided costs. 00:09:45.640 --> 00:09:49.860 Just for our visual understanding, if you look at the graph first, the green line is 00:09:49.860 --> 00:09:52.880 how solar generates throughout the 24 hours of the day. 00:09:52.880 --> 00:09:57.560 You can see it peaks during lunch when the sun is the strongest. 00:09:57.560 --> 00:10:02.220 The blue line represents the ERCAT market, and when it peaks, it tends to peak late afternoon 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:03.800 and into the early evening. 00:10:03.800 --> 00:10:09.000 As I said, we looked at the avoided costs, we did it two different ways. 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.240 The first way we looked at the ERCAT market was an hourly analysis. 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.040 We looked at when solar was generating. 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:20.760 We used NREL's PVWatts calculator for their load sheet, and we looked at ERCAT hourly 00:10:20.760 --> 00:10:24.000 pricing and compared the two to come up with an avoided cost. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.320 And that avoided cost is seven cents per kilowatt hour. 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:32.000 Next, we also looked at Denton's existing purchased power contracts for solar, because 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.440 that's what Denton's already paying for solar power. 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:44.800 And when you look at the average of those contracts, it averages about four cents. 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:50.760 For societal benefits, again, remember, this is the cost of not emitting another ton of 00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:52.160 carbon or greenhouse gases. 00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:56.720 As I said, there's a variety of studies depending on who you look at. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:02.200 The market in the northeast, it's called Reggie, they estimated about $15 a ton. 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:07.880 The EPA recently estimated $190 per ton, if you convert that into dollars per kilowatt 00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:08.880 hour. 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:13.000 It varies from about one cents to eight cents a kilowatt hour. 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:19.160 Denton already mitigates their emissions for the utility as a whole. 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:21.640 So they already have 100% renewable energy. 00:11:21.640 --> 00:11:27.920 Therefore, if we're looking at a value of solar rate, we've assigned this zero because 00:11:27.920 --> 00:11:30.200 they've already mitigated their emissions. 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.560 Now, all of that said, city council can make a policy decision to change this and they 00:11:35.560 --> 00:11:40.520 can include, you know, really anything from one cents to eight cents if they want to add 00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:43.520 that to the value of solar. 00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:53.720 We're going to take a moment and have a question. 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:57.480 So I'm just wondering which one is accurate. 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:02.960 Oh, there's, yeah, one of them I put in the rounding from one cent to eight cent. 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:18.040 This one says 0.006 to 0.0770, on slide five, the one you were just on, there for the second. 00:12:18.040 --> 00:12:23.080 Yeah, and I just ran with it from one cent to eight cents. 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:24.080 Oh, okay. 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:25.080 That's all. 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:34.800 I thought it was easier to understand one cent to eight cents than a lot of decimals. 00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:35.800 Let's see. 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:36.800 Okay. 00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:40.560 As far as policy-driven incentives, there are federal policies and state policies that 00:12:40.560 --> 00:12:41.560 support renewables. 00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:49.120 As far as Denton policy, we reviewed multiple policies and right now none of them support 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.040 the need for local renewables. 00:12:51.040 --> 00:12:55.980 They do support the need for 100% renewables to balance out Denton's load. 00:12:55.980 --> 00:13:00.320 So with that said, the incentive we'd add to value of solar is zero because there's 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.320 not a policy supporting that at the time, but again, this is city council's choice. 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:11.000 City council can make a policy to set that however they want to set it, however much 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.520 they want to incentivize solar. 00:13:13.520 --> 00:13:18.840 It's also important to note that there are ways to incentivize rooftop solar and local 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.720 solar beyond just adding it into your value of solar rate. 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:29.000 You can streamline installation processes, permits, inspections, waive some of the fees 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:35.280 that customers have to pay to connect to the system, provide grants or rebates, or sometimes 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:42.400 utilities can offer low-cost loans for installation because one of the hardest things about getting 00:13:42.400 --> 00:13:49.240 to be a solar customer is just that huge installation cost, that upfront cost. 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:55.240 So in summary, the value of solar has three components, the avoided costs, societal benefits, 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:56.240 policy-driven incentives. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:02.360 For the avoided cost rate, anything from that four cent to seven cent range is reasonable 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:08.560 to use for avoided costs as far as societal benefits and policy-driven incentives. 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:13.080 We've set those at zero, but again, this is a city council decision on how much they want 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.080 to incentivize solar. 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:18.680 So if they want to add anything for societal benefits or if any policies come about, that 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:22.740 can be adjusted. 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:26.160 This is an example of what bills would look like. 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:30.720 This bill is for somebody that uses more energy than they produce. 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:36.520 So you can see in the top row, the usage is 1,365 kilowatt hours a month. 00:14:36.520 --> 00:14:41.200 This first column is just for a standard residential customer that does not have solar installed. 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.200 Their bill is about $181 if you look at the bottom row. 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.360 The next column is the current net billing customer under dense current rates with the 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:51.360 RCA. 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.360 Their bill is about $140. 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.680 If we switch and use an avoided cost rate, this is still net billing, but we're using 00:14:58.680 --> 00:15:02.320 an avoided cost rate from the PPAs of four cents. 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.320 Their bill is about $167. 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:10.520 If we use the ERCAP market rate, it's $154. 00:15:10.520 --> 00:15:16.860 Now if we switch to one of these columns with the Purchased Power Agreement or the ERCAP 00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:23.920 market, the net effect is in that bottom row is that if you use the debt and PPA for the 00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:29.760 avoided cost, debt is going to have about $463 more thousand dollars that they can use 00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:33.600 for other programs, which Bill will talk about shortly. 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:38.960 And if you choose the ERCAP market avoided cost, it's about $236,000. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.880 So these are annual numbers. 00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:47.880 Thank you Jill. 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:53.880 And so staff's recommendation would be to go ahead and implement the avoided cost based 00:15:53.880 --> 00:15:56.560 on DME's, PPA's. 00:15:56.560 --> 00:16:02.960 So that would be the 3.79 cents and that would go into effect October 1st. 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:08.800 What we'd also recommend is similar to how we transitioned out of the rebate, the solar 00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:13.640 rebates, is we would take that savings from that change and apply that to the Green Sense 00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:19.920 Incentive Programs and make that budget $463,000 more. 00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:22.120 So that is staff's recommendation. 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.640 Do I have any questions, comments, members? 00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:30.080 Oh, I do. 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:49.440 Just some general comments about the report here with me here. 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:58.940 The DEX emissions, as you saw in the presentation, are discounted as are fuel costs and other 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:06.840 externalities as well as air quality impacts of the DEC. 00:17:06.840 --> 00:17:14.760 The DEC is an integral part of Denton's energy portfolio and will become even more so given 00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:18.840 hotter days and more severe storms. 00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:26.840 I would hope that all components of DME's energy generation be evaluated within this 00:17:26.840 --> 00:17:28.520 report. 00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:38.920 I have some figures between 2018 and 2023 and I don't know if the folks who wrote the 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:49.560 Value of Solar report were given these, but for the public record, between 2018 and 2023, 00:17:49.560 --> 00:18:08.140 CO2 emissions from the DEC amounted to 767,536 tons which translates into 1,535,072,000 pounds. 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:24.560 As of matter 10 and 2.5 for those years, 2018 to 2023, 298,870 pounds, NOx 2,019,654 pounds 00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:33.560 and VOCs 181,799 pounds. 00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:43.800 I quote from the study, "Despite DME's achievement of 100% renewable energy, ongoing initiatives 00:18:43.800 --> 00:18:49.280 like the city's cap underscore the importance of furthering sustainable energy goals including 00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:54.160 specific targets for installed solar, distributed generation. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:19:00.360 However, the study does not estimate the cost of those incentives and their impact on the 00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:02.880 value of solar." 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:08.460 There's no mention of grandfathering existing installations and as you'll recall, this was 00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:13.080 a matter of great concern in previous discussions. 00:19:13.080 --> 00:19:19.320 The study praises distributed generation and battery storage and variable pricing structures 00:19:19.320 --> 00:19:26.280 during the course of the day, however, none of these aspects were included in the study. 00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:32.840 I did not find any data showing the amount of reduction in energy consumption per dollar 00:19:32.840 --> 00:19:43.720 of Green Sense initiatives such as $1,000 in incentives equals what kind of reduction 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.860 in energy use. 00:19:46.860 --> 00:19:57.920 So those are my concerns and as a question, just in a simple nutshell, if this program 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:03.600 is adopted, what will become of net metering in DME? 00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:10.800 Just, you know, as plainly as answers as possible, thanks to whomever, I mean that's... 00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:14.520 Is that the only question you had or was there some questions on the front part? 00:20:14.520 --> 00:20:17.080 No, no, so far that's it. 00:20:17.080 --> 00:20:22.840 Okay, so DME is a net billing program, so it's very similar to the net metering other than 00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:27.900 the fact that instead of netting the usage, we net the dollars. 00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:33.600 So we have the amount of energy that comes to the house is charged with the retail rate 00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:38.640 is for that energy, the amount of energy that comes out of that house is credited currently 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:43.440 a retail plus the RCA rate going out, and then the differential is what shows up on 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:45.080 the bottom line of the bill. 00:20:45.080 --> 00:20:50.560 That is still going to be the same way as far as the net billing piece, so we're going 00:20:50.560 --> 00:20:55.160 to charge a retail rate for the energy coming into the house, the energy coming out of the 00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:00.400 house instead of doing what we're doing now, which is retail plus RCA, we're just going 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.840 to pay the value of solar for that energy going out of the house. 00:21:03.840 --> 00:21:08.240 You're still going to get 100% of the benefit for the kilowatt hours that you use inside 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.240 your walls. 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.240 All right. 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:18.860 And is the $60 facility fee that was discussed last year, which was going to be put on solar, 00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:20.040 is that dead? 00:21:20.040 --> 00:21:21.040 Yes. 00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:22.040 All right. 00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:28.560 So in this discussion, what we did was we sort of shifted courses and looked at it from 00:21:28.560 --> 00:21:33.640 a value of solar standpoint versus trying to recover our loss in those fixed costs and 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:34.640 elsewhere. 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:35.640 Okay. 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:40.360 Well, I guess my biggest concern in regard to the study and the reason why I would wish 00:21:40.360 --> 00:21:47.080 further review and study of what's going on is the dismissal of the DEX emissions and 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:49.980 its possible impacts. 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:54.480 So this study was just looking at the value of solar and how it impacts our programs now. 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.780 There's currently a study going on which is the Dent Renewable Resource Plan 2.0 and that's 00:21:59.780 --> 00:22:04.720 being worked on and that's going to be brought forth probably within the next four, six months. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.960 I'd still like to see something. 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:18.400 I have a problem with just the flat dismissal under societal benefits of the DEX emissions. 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:27.880 They're just too big and the future is too precarious to just put that under the rug. 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:28.880 Thank you. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:29.880 Brian, Adam? 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:30.880 Yeah. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880 I'm still trying to catch up to this. 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:34.880 Okay. 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.880 You want to go? 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.880 Go ahead, Brian. 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:41.880 So I'm aware of a lot of emerald studies that go into distributed generation, especially 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:48.040 at the local level being one of the most cost-based ways to get energy into a grid and I understand 00:22:48.040 --> 00:22:53.120 that and I hear our consultants saying that a lot of this does come down to a purely policy 00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:58.640 discussion about what our values are as a community and I've read through the report. 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.740 I see your math there. 00:23:00.740 --> 00:23:05.400 I am echoing Ed's concerns about the debt is mentioned in this report as an integral 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:10.240 part of our grid and I wish at the end of the day we were looking at an apples to apples 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.200 comparison in our cost savings here because I understand that you do pay this one way 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:20.000 or another and this is a policy discussion about what we are willing to pay, but my issue 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.120 with funneling money from essentially DMA into the Greensense program, which is return 00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:29.920 to residents as rebates, is we're not examining a carbon to carbon value and this is really 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.960 coming down to a carbon question about what type of behaviors are we looking to incentivize 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:35.960 in our city. 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:42.360 I think we're still very much reeling from winter storm Uri a couple years ago and the 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:48.840 very clear need for reliable, consistent, and localized generation to support residents 00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:53.120 in crisis just from a reliability standpoint. 00:23:53.120 --> 00:23:58.680 This to me, I'm not seeing where we can make that fair comparison about what that distributed 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:04.240 generation does even though distributed generation is called for in this report including battery 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.880 storage and among other things I'm not seeing this in the proposal either and I understand 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.440 this is the second time you're coming to us for a recommendation and we don't make the 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:13.440 final decision here. 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.440 It's just our recommendation. 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:22.520 I know that you're looking for ways to recoup some of those costs from this very cost expensive 00:24:22.520 --> 00:24:23.520 energy generation. 00:24:23.520 --> 00:24:27.400 It's just that for us to be able to make a decision it's we really need to see what it 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:28.760 is we're comparing. 00:24:28.760 --> 00:24:32.600 So having some sort of data about what our carbon reduction just from our Greensense 00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:38.840 program looks like based on what we're getting from the reliability costs and societal benefits 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:43.000 from having distributed generation across the city that would help me make a better 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:44.000 decision. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.280 We've got into net metering and had quite a lengthy discussion in this committee about 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:52.840 what our values were there and to me this also discounts the grandfathering that we 00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:58.680 supported from that initiative and I'm not seeing anything that talks about how we spent 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:03.520 a long time supporting those early adopters when there was a real clear need to build 00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:08.920 in renewable energy into our portfolio again this is another way that we're looking at 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:13.160 effectively taxing the people who we spend more than a decade trying to incentivize that 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:14.160 adoption. 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.600 I'm just not seeing where we recognize that they supported our program then and here's 00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:23.200 a bait and switch on them once again and so if those components were included I think 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:27.240 that's a much easier way for us to look at this from a holistic sense. 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:31.680 I just disagree fundamentally that this is a truly representative value of the policy 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.500 direction we choose to go as a city. 00:25:35.500 --> 00:25:39.800 So if I could just address one of the comments that he makes I think Mr. Soap made it as 00:25:39.800 --> 00:25:47.160 well and that's as far as the dollar value of these dollars shifting from solar to the 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.160 greensense program. 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:54.680 So on our previous presentation we did clearly list that out as far as the dollar savings 00:25:54.680 --> 00:26:00.680 and the carbon offset for dollars spent on those programs because quite honestly the best 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:05.440 way to save carbon is to not have the energy use at all and that's what those rebate programs 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.680 incentivize is production and use. 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:13.320 So it was a pretty clear difference between the two I don't have the slide in front of 00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:19.440 me now but if you go back you can see that and I apologize that it wasn't part of this 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.760 slide deck but it is a clear difference between the value of those dollars going to solar 00:26:24.760 --> 00:26:30.560 and the value of those dollars going to greensense. 00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:38.200 Yeah can you just talk a little bit about the concerns that have been expressed around 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:45.360 the equity dimensions of this that in other words we've had you've incentivized to buy 00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:48.600 into this program and now the cost is going up. 00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:57.480 Can you or remind us of the way you think about fairness when it comes to distribution 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:02.600 of costs for energy distribution around the city. 00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:07.960 Sure so right now and this is really what started this conversation over a year actually 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:14.520 even prior to my arrival at DME was the fact that the amount of money that we're spending 00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:19.880 both in rebates and in the net metering credits that were going to customers was being borne 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:20.880 by the rest of our customers. 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:27.440 It was being borne by the 64,000 customers that don't have solar and in order to try 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:32.880 to make that equitable we were looking more at valuing that solar coming out of those 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:37.760 customers that have the rooftop and valuing it properly so it doesn't impact the rest 00:27:37.760 --> 00:27:40.320 of the rate base that we have. 00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:45.920 And remind us how does it impact how are the others shouldering the extra cost is it from 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.920 the fixed infrastructure? 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:53.840 For the yes so fixed infrastructure is one of the big ones so those customers that have 00:27:53.840 --> 00:28:00.240 net zero or you know get a $10 credit at the end of the month or a $20 electric bill at 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.400 the end of the month they're not paying their share of the fixed cost for the distribution 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:09.600 system for the administrative in general for the all the trucks we have on the road they're 00:28:09.600 --> 00:28:14.640 not paying that fair share because that right now through a cost of service study takes 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:19.280 all those costs and distribute them amongst the customers that we have so we have 65,000 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:25.360 customers when 1,100 of those customers and it was continuing to grow and it does continue 00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:30.560 still continue to grow when that number goes down the rest of those customers are having 00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:34.560 to make up that difference. 00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:40.640 Another way to think about it also is again the presentation didn't find solar power around 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:46.240 four cents and if you look at what you're paying the customers we go back to that billing 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:53.760 slide on here that column that says net billing customer what you're paying them now is you're 00:28:53.760 --> 00:29:02.000 paying them seven cents plus that RCA so whereas them could buy a solar contract for four cents 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:08.400 you're paying customers you know 10 plus cents and so who makes up that difference well your 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.960 other customers make up that difference so it's a fair to them to pay 10 cents for this 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.560 power when you can get it for four cents you know and if the utility as a whole or a city 00:29:18.560 --> 00:29:22.960 council as a whole says yes we think it's that valuable we should do it you know then that's 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:28.720 fine that's what you do but there's also some utilities that say no it's cost-based everybody's 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:34.400 going to pay you know what the power is worth and so that's another place you see the difference. 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:40.560 I see so if I'm understanding what you're saying under the proposed plan staff's recommendation 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.800 we're going to pay out the energy that's created put back on the grid from the house we're going 00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:52.720 to pay out at four cents because that's what we could buy solar for in our PPAs. 00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:00.160 Right and so and so when you have somebody like like Austin Energy and they have a little bit 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.880 different program you know that it's buy all sell all the customer buys 100% of the utilities if 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:10.480 they didn't have solar and then they sell the solar back to the utility a certain amount and so 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:16.400 Austin has a value of solar rate and they have an avoided cost which they used or caught which was 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:22.080 around six or seven cents and then they did add on some societal benefit because they weren't 100% 00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:29.280 renewable and so they ended up closer to nine cents so so they put a they chose to put a higher 00:30:29.280 --> 00:30:34.240 value on that at the same time they're also netting that's not net metering it's not net billing 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:45.760 it's buy all sell all so it's also a different metering setup does anybody have a you know put 00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:57.600 it back on the direction page. Yeah and some of the some of you already mentioned the grandfathering 00:30:57.600 --> 00:31:03.440 too so we had had long discussions about that we had discussions in this body we had discussions 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:11.120 in PBB about it we did consult our legal staff about that and there are some equity challenges 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:16.080 with that as well because now we have one solar customer being treated different than another 00:31:16.080 --> 00:31:24.320 solar customer i.e. the existing one versus anybody that comes on so we chose to not make that part of 00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:32.640 our recommendation. When you're ready I was going to clarify a little bit on the deck if you want 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:42.800 to. We have one more question from Brandon. So if this is your full slate of recommendations 00:31:42.800 --> 00:31:51.040 on slide six of this slide deck we did talk about application fees, the installation process, 00:31:51.040 --> 00:31:57.920 grants or rebates. I know that we've removed our solar installation rebates previously is there 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:05.600 any discussion about adding possibly to the green sense program some sort of rebate that incentivizes 00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:14.240 solar installation at the local level? Yeah I will leave that up to to Mr. Gagne and his plans moving 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:21.280 forward. I know batteries were discussed in the past but as far as DME is concerned we're sort 00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:26.880 of taking that packaging those dollars that would otherwise been spent on solar and the green sense 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:34.160 program and having them do what what is asked of them. Did that answer your question? Yes. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.680 Do you want to come on up and talk about the deck for just a minute? 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:46.560 And I will confirm with our legal team it's okay that some did his mission in our report 00:32:46.560 --> 00:32:52.160 that we can talk about them. Great I'm Terry Holt the assistant general manager of DME and I just 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:58.720 want to make sure in the context of the discussion you're having about the deck that we you know 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:05.040 we're as transparent as we can be about why the deck is there and what role it plays. 00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:13.440 You know we we are very transparent about the emissions from the deck. We publish a every month 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:20.000 a report what our carbon emissions are NOx emissions and our particular emissions are. 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:30.000 How many hours we run the deck and while while we don't back away from the fact that it does 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:37.680 contribute to atmospheric emissions of carbon and other pollutants the reality is is that 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:46.000 the deck was originally part of the program the renewable end program in order to provide 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:54.960 a price hedge against the intermittency of renewables and the physics of the transmission 00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:02.960 system is such that if we did not provide that ourselves we would be relying on some other 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:09.600 entity to provide that backup energy that that replacement energy during those intermittent 00:34:09.600 --> 00:34:17.120 periods. Because as a utility we not only have a responsibility for adhering with the 00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:23.120 Denton renewable resource plan but to maintain the reliability of our system and to meet ERCOT 00:34:23.120 --> 00:34:30.960 protocols with respect to that reliability of the overall credit. You know leaving it up to others 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:39.360 would probably result in even higher emissions for that intermittency backup because the Denton 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:46.400 energy center is one of the cleanest if not the cleanest resource in the ERCOT market 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:54.880 as a gas fire generator. So again I think as Jill Bill pointed out you know these are policy 00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:01.440 decisions that the council will ultimately make and certainly with with your role as an advisory 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:12.560 committee we'll take into account your wishes your guidance but the energy center again is a 00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:19.600 necessary evil so to speak in order to maintain the reliability that we're obligated to to provide 00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:27.120 to the ERCOT grid and it's done in a way that is as clean as possible because of the nature of the 00:35:27.120 --> 00:35:32.000 technology that we've employed. So just want to make sure that that was on the record and then 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:40.240 you all understand that while there is emissions we do it as as responsible a manner as we possibly 00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:47.360 can. I want a question um because I don't think anyone was questioning the deck we were just 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.080 yeah explaining the emissions since this is the environmental and sustainability committee that's 00:35:52.080 --> 00:36:01.360 kind of like our our niche so it was worth mentioning. So if the if more people so like 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:07.840 as of today no one else installs rooftop solar like we were just left with whatever is out there 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:17.920 what does that mean for like our PPAs or the deck does that mean more the deck is turned on more 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:23.760 does that mean that we're using that more frequently to put energy into the grid to make 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:32.160 up for that absence of because as our city grows the need for more energy grows so when people add 00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:37.760 rooftop solar that kind of helps I mean it doesn't make up for the energy we need with the growth but 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:45.600 it helps right it balances that out a little bit so if if we basically as our first commenter said 00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:53.600 kill solar and didn't what does that mean for us relying on these other um these other things to 00:36:53.600 --> 00:37:01.920 use that create more emissions and carbon in our local atmosphere. Yeah so the question you're 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:09.280 asking is a very good one and we are facing significant low growth which means our electrical 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:18.160 supply has to increase. You probably saw we recently signed another 100 megawatt solar contract 00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:26.720 a 15-year contract for 100 megawatts of additional solar and we will continue to add to that portfolio 00:37:26.720 --> 00:37:34.640 of renewable resources to ensure that on an annual basis we're 100 percent renewable. Now will that 00:37:34.640 --> 00:37:44.000 meet the reliability requirements that we are mandated to follow from ERCOT? No it won't and 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:51.280 there was legislation that was passed last session for renewable resources intermittent renewable 00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:59.680 resources that are started up post-2027 with respect to farming of that energy because of 00:37:59.680 --> 00:38:07.600 the intermittency and so when we bring the dental renewable resource plan to the council for the new 00:38:07.600 --> 00:38:14.080 dental renewable resource plan or version 2.0 that will be at one of the major issues that will have 00:38:14.080 --> 00:38:20.240 to be debated publicly about how we want to move forward to meet the growth requirements of our 00:38:20.240 --> 00:38:27.120 of our community as well as the reliability requirements of the community and of ERCOT. 00:38:27.120 --> 00:38:34.800 So not giving a direct answer but we do continue to always scale in additional renewable resources. 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:43.440 There is also you know we have a responsibility to provide the lowest rates possible to the 00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:51.840 65,000 customers we serve and so as Jill has pointed out you know we can buy utility scale 00:38:51.840 --> 00:39:01.440 solar much cheaper than we can buy energy from rooftop solar and so that has to be taken into 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.480 account as well. What we want to incentivize and encourage people to put rooftop solar on their 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:12.560 on their homes it's for the benefit of the homeowner because it offsets their utility bill 00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:18.560 and that value still will exist. I have one more question for you while you're here or maybe for 00:39:18.560 --> 00:39:27.120 for anyone really because we're we're talking about the what you can buy solar for right and then so 00:39:27.120 --> 00:39:34.000 and you may have mentioned this our transmission cost included in that because I know they are 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:40.400 significant and so what is the difference say so when we have our our PPA solar that we're paying 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:46.960 for four cents right and then a homeowner we're paying six cents or eight cents I can't remember 00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:53.120 but is that a transmission I mean do we pay transmission costs on that as well 00:39:53.120 --> 00:40:00.000 because it goes directly into the grid so I mean I feel like there's like this amount of money 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.280 in transmission cost and distribution that isn't accounted for or it may be I'm just 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.640 so we did we looked at the two avoided costs right we looked at one which is the purchase 00:40:12.640 --> 00:40:17.040 agreements which comes into the market that's four cents when we looked at the one that's 00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:21.360 based on the ERCAT market where we did an hourly analysis let's say we had to buy all this from the 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:27.600 ERCAT market we didn't have these purchase power agreements that one that's the one that was seven 00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:35.280 cents and that one has energy costs in it has ancillary costs in it and it has the transmission 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:42.400 or CP cost included in it and then everything's adjusted for losses also because if you generated 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:48.080 a kilowatt hour at your house and use it it's if you if you're generating that at the grid it might 00:40:48.080 --> 00:40:52.640 be 1.1 kilowatt hours and because you're generating where you're using it you're avoiding losses so 00:40:52.640 --> 00:40:57.520 there's a credit for that in there also so it does have a credit for losses across the system in 00:40:57.520 --> 00:41:06.640 transmission. I don't know maybe I missed it in the report but do you know what impact this would 00:41:06.640 --> 00:41:13.440 have on the overall DME users rate this $463,000 savings that would go to the green sense program? 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:22.800 Are you talking about for example I know we're also going to be raising our DME rates right 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:26.480 does this have any direct impact on those rates through these savings? 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:32.080 So we are not pocketing those savings so to speak we're transferring into another program so it's 00:41:32.080 --> 00:41:36.480 still going to be a cost but it's going to be a cost that's going to go towards a program that 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:46.320 we feel is a little bit more better bang for the buck. Yeah and if I can speak to the killing of 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:54.800 the solar nothing here is suggesting that we kill solar we still allow so systems to connect they 00:41:54.800 --> 00:42:01.280 may be more incentivized to now couple their solar with a battery so instead of sending that energy 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.680 to us for that cost they're now sending it to their battery and they're using it at different 00:42:05.680 --> 00:42:12.000 times of the day so that will still continue to happen we still see systems coming online we 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:17.760 still see systems coming online on other utilities that that don't have as lucrative a program as 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:27.040 DME has had. Okay members do you have a recommendation? It does say it does ask us 00:42:27.040 --> 00:42:35.440 if we have any direction regarding the value of solar so so there are these recommendations 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:44.320 one and two. Does anybody for one or two or have a third option maybe you would like to send a council? 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:50.560 Adam you go first. Well I'm in favor of both. 00:42:50.560 --> 00:42:54.880 I do think that the 00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:03.440 value that we're talking about Michael's yelling at me to yell um I do think that we might be 00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:11.280 undervaluing again our societal costs here and I don't believe that the 3.7 cents necessarily 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:16.720 captures all of that I would be more comfortable with a number closer to six or seven personally. 00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:23.760 I again I want to read back again to make sure that I understand our carbon to carbon savings 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:29.120 that we're talking about in transferring these savings from DME's costs to the green sense program 00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:35.600 we have more discussions on that later today as well and I recognize how valuable that program 00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:41.040 has been and what an injection of funds would do for it it just hurts me again to see that 00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:46.480 14 years we told people this is our policy this is direction we'd like you to go this is how we'd 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:52.080 like you to support your community in your own home to bait and switch like that and pull the 00:43:52.080 --> 00:44:01.360 rug away just as we were recommending for the net metering program it feels really it just doesn't 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.400 feel great it doesn't feel great to me and I don't even own somewhere on my roof I'm more than 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:09.040 comfortable paying for people like Ed who do I really am and to me I think that it is valuable 00:44:09.040 --> 00:44:15.200 to have that in our local grid regardless of what it does cost seven cents to me doesn't feel 00:44:15.200 --> 00:44:20.160 egregious at all and I know that that impacts our savings to other programs but I feel that the 00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:26.640 reliability of having our own ability to generate energy and you know maybe this is a discussion 00:44:26.640 --> 00:44:31.600 where we if we go with this recommendation we're talking more about local batteries and 00:44:31.600 --> 00:44:37.520 local energy savings but this just doesn't get me there I would like to see a higher number 00:44:37.520 --> 00:44:46.560 so just uh so you would like on the recommendation okay so a rate of six cents 00:44:49.120 --> 00:44:54.560 again we we're not setting the policy right now I'm purely advisory and so I don't want to 00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:58.240 give you a number without looking at your math and I know you've done a lot of math on this 00:44:58.240 --> 00:45:02.880 and I don't want to suggest a number without my own data right I would like to see something that 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:08.960 puts our our societal and policy value of solar higher than what you put it here at you know zero 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:18.240 three seventy nine dollars so I know that today's the day that we are doing recommendations for city 00:45:18.240 --> 00:45:24.000 council but as far as this group is it something that DME could come back and talk about the 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:32.560 what that would look like for the say six nights I thought the question was going to come up okay 00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:43.600 so uh what we did so so uh we added one alternative that just fell in the middle 00:45:43.600 --> 00:45:47.600 between the four cents and seven cents and that's this last column that's a blended rate 00:45:48.640 --> 00:45:49.600 and so you can see that 00:45:49.600 --> 00:45:58.640 I'm not sure you guys see the mouse oh yeah okay so the seven cents that's the 00:45:58.640 --> 00:46:03.680 the ERCOT remember I said that you would recommend between this four cents and seven cents based on 00:46:03.680 --> 00:46:09.680 the avoided cost that's the ERCOT and then this four cents that's the PPA rate and you average 00:46:09.680 --> 00:46:15.440 them it's about five and a half cents so we just did a simple average of the of the bookends of 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.440 the avoided cost and that's more in the middle if that's something you're more comfortable with 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:24.960 and this might be a question for you I apologize um the way that we're able to acquire PPAs versus 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:29.520 how that's weighted against the general ERCOT grid why is there discrepancy in those numbers 00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:37.600 just as a financial um well the the PPAs and Terry may have to help me but 00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:46.240 PPAs for solar usually are around two three four cents is what we've seen they're huge installations 00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:50.480 they don't have any ongoing you know fuel costs there's very little maintenance and things like 00:46:50.480 --> 00:47:00.480 that so on an energy basis they are much more affordable um in in the market in ERCOT's market 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.840 when you're buying power it's a mix of you've got coal and gas and renewables and who knows what 00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:11.680 but in the market you know the part of this too is you know solar's generating in the middle of the 00:47:11.680 --> 00:47:17.040 day and when we need when we need power and power cost of the highest is at the end of the day 00:47:17.040 --> 00:47:24.080 so it's just a mix of like the hourly profiles of them and of what units are feeding into it 00:47:24.080 --> 00:47:31.760 so this PPA cost reflects DME's specific average solar PPA exactly because I know we have a number 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:39.280 of them and your ERCOT cost there represents an average of the market rate per kilowatt hour if 00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.400 we had to go to ERCOT and buy that power instead of the customer generating it it's that seven 00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:49.840 cents but because previous policies that has purchased power agreements for all of their 00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:58.080 energy and that's the four cents but that's very helpful thank you I have one other question just 00:47:58.080 --> 00:48:06.080 because you did mention in the presentation that the Denton renewable resource plan is being 00:48:06.080 --> 00:48:12.080 looked at again and is coming back and I know the old one I do believe some of that solar was 00:48:12.080 --> 00:48:22.880 included and my question is are we making this decision a little ahead of the game so like what 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:29.440 happens if they come back and they're like you need this solar and you need so much more solar 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:37.280 localized because it benefits and you know directly our renewable resource plan so like 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:43.280 and then we have to like backtrack so I'm just I'm just trying to understand why you want a 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:49.760 decision today when that plan is still being discussed and that may not be for this I don't 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:54.720 I think it's a good question but but I think I think the answer is real simple 00:48:54.720 --> 00:49:06.640 that even if we had a huge incentive to incentivize rooftop solar it's not going to move the needle on 00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:13.680 the big picture of the community's needs for energy and renewable energy so I don't think 00:49:13.680 --> 00:49:18.880 it's premature for you to make this decision a recommendation it really will have great impact 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:28.880 on what we do the plan as we're developing it will include the value proposition from rooftop 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:36.160 solar in terms of the total inventory of renewable energy that's used to serve the city and the 00:49:36.160 --> 00:49:43.760 benefit of energy efficiency programs and the avoided emissions avoided energy that would have 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:51.120 been would have been needed to serve the load so again it's just it's not it's just not big enough 00:49:51.120 --> 00:50:01.280 okay and last question then we're kind of going to wrap this up if you covered this I apologize 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:09.600 it's pretty simple but you mentioned the fact that non-solar customers subsidize the people who had 00:50:09.600 --> 00:50:17.760 solar that's been a discussion before how is that being dealt with now it will be less of amount 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:24.400 of dollars that we're paying to those customers for the rooftop solar and those dollars will be 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:30.960 channeled to the uh the greensense program but we may we'll be paying more of an appropriate rate 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.240 for that solar energy coming back versus a retail plus rate that's the bigger difference is that the 00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:44.160 same rate that is that like it's what point tip point one zero six five yes so right now 00:50:44.160 --> 00:50:48.720 to blend it it's about ten and a half cents right that we paid for every kilowatt hour that so 00:50:48.720 --> 00:50:53.840 is that going to change yes that'll change to the to the value of solar rate so it'd be the three 00:50:53.840 --> 00:51:01.120 point three point seven nine in the recommendation 00:51:03.200 --> 00:51:07.920 yeah so all these rates have been presented are just what is then going to pay the customer 00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:15.200 when the customer sells them power so that will be the that the point zero three seven nine is 00:51:15.200 --> 00:51:25.760 what a solar owner of what will be the return for for what they send to us yes again every 00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:31.680 kilowatt hour they displace on their side of the meter is a full retail offset 00:51:34.160 --> 00:51:41.600 and just want to say because i said i'm in favor both i didn't say why so what's going on in my mind 00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:47.200 here is folks we haven't mentioned because i do remember our previous conversations about the 00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:54.800 greater bang for the buck other ways of avoiding energy use in the city this would be a significant 00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:59.600 influx of money to that so i'm thinking about people in low-income communities in the city of 00:51:59.600 --> 00:52:07.360 dinn who could benefit from this this extra money to insulate their homes or whatever 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:12.080 and as things get hotter you know they're the ones who are going to maybe beat this 00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:17.440 come up so i do think there's equity issues to be considered that are built into this i know i i 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.960 really wish we could grandfather too it sounds like we can't but that's why i in favor of this maybe we 00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:28.320 could move the number up a little bit or something that makes trades interesting i didn't know we 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:36.480 could do that something like that i mean i just want to recall we had decided we could as a 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:43.040 community have a lot greater impact for the goals and values that we have by putting that money into 00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:48.160 this program times have changed we've got all these big ppas going on that right so i think we've been 00:52:48.160 --> 00:52:54.400 paying too high of a rate we're still doing that billing with those trades so you're still buying 00:52:54.400 --> 00:53:04.400 that energy back so that's just me that's why i was in favor of it okay do you have recommendation 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:10.640 are you good with the limited rate that was shown or are are you not wanting to make a 00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:17.920 recommend for either one of these so you're not in favor of either of those okay you're in favor of 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:26.160 both of them yeah right again we are purely an advisory body yeah you take this to puv and you 00:53:26.160 --> 00:53:32.480 take this to council and ultimately this is council's decision but i personally would not 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:38.320 feel comfortable without some recognition of the people who we've led on effectively for more than 00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:43.680 a decade to say this is what we wanted you to do and these are the financial choices into you know 00:53:43.680 --> 00:53:49.200 2030 financial plans that you're going to invest yourself into this feels like we're doing those 00:53:49.200 --> 00:53:55.200 people wrong who said you know we see the need for local generation we see the need for renewable 00:53:55.200 --> 00:54:01.200 energy and we want to support the city in this way i know that it costs us as a community but 00:54:01.200 --> 00:54:05.520 if this is a conversation about how much do we value that i just don't think that does them justice 00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:11.760 so i would like to see closer to the blended rate from our recommendation 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:18.880 and you're okay with the blended rate as well well that's not on our slide could you go back 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:24.240 to the blended rate because i don't think that included what was nice about the recommendation 00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:31.440 that showed us the impact on green sense budget yeah what would that so it would be in between the 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:41.040 236 000 and 463 000 it's in the bio right here okay 350 350 000 that would go to green sense 00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:51.040 i mean that's a decent compromise for me i could get on board with that okay so maybe when you go 00:54:51.040 --> 00:54:57.680 back to council we pretty much are kind of undecided but moving more towards the the blended rate if 00:54:57.680 --> 00:55:03.920 there was something to be discussed grandfathering is still a big issue for this body i know you said 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:09.600 that you know legal had some issues with the equality of it i would like i have some more 00:55:09.600 --> 00:55:14.800 legal questions for those who bought the solar and thought they were getting something they may have 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:22.240 something else to say about it legally so i don't i don't really i feel like it's still a big issue 00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:29.520 for this body like grandfathering so if when you bring the recommendations from this body to council 00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:36.800 please explain that to them i'm sure the conversation will continue on grandfathering 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:39.600 so if i can if i can just make sure 00:55:39.600 --> 00:55:48.400 thank you so uh the blended rate is the 00:55:48.400 --> 00:56:03.520 0.054 so are you comfortable making our recommendation 0.054 with that differential going to 00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:10.560 the greensense program and that's what we can modify moving forward with your support 00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:20.560 um i don't think we need to vote i think it's just 00:56:20.560 --> 00:56:30.480 i don't i don't suppose that's a direction yeah my recommendation would be is just each member 00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:34.880 provide their direction and they'll capture that and move forward yeah i think we pretty much have 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:42.240 done that i i'm a little uncomfortable with this going forward one because of the um 00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:50.640 the dip renewable plan coming forward and also the the grandfathering being left out and i'm afraid 00:56:50.640 --> 00:56:55.680 that if we say okay i'm in favor of these recommendations that conversation is going 00:56:55.680 --> 00:57:00.800 to get thrown by the wayside and we'll just be you know moving forward so 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:06.320 that that's me personally i think adam said he's okay 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:14.320 brand but blended rate feels more comfortable to me and it does still benefit the greensense program 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:19.840 which we've had for long conversations about the larger community benefit of that program and so i 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:26.480 i personally feel like that would be my suggestion okay all right so i mean if if a race going forward 00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:32.160 i would prefer the blended right up there likewise and too so i think that you have a pretty okay 00:57:32.160 --> 00:57:36.480 and then i'll mention the the the conference uh the conversation that we had on the grandfather 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:41.280 and again i i would be very surprised if it didn't come up in both bodies coming up okay 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:46.160 all right well thank you thank you for your presentation and time thank you we appreciate it 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:56.080 and we will um go ahead and move on to what was the receipt report and home discussion about 00:57:56.080 --> 00:58:02.000 commercial organics pilot program thank you all so much for for waiting we appreciate your time 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:17.840 in there is it brandy are you giving it yes it's a brady meal 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:40.080 all right well we'll get started good afternoon madam chair and 00:58:40.080 --> 00:58:46.880 my name is brady neal i'm the administration manager for solid waste recycling and i'm here 00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:53.440 today just to give you an update on our commercial organics pilot so starting just with some background 00:58:53.440 --> 00:59:00.640 in 2021 solid waste adopted a conference of solid waste management strategy that helped plan out the 00:59:00.640 --> 00:59:07.440 next 75 plus years for us giving us some diversion goals you may have heard these goals but it's 30 00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:14.960 diversion by 2030 40 by 40 and 75 by 75 as a part of that comprehensive solid waste management 00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:21.120 strategy our consultants conducted a waste characterization study this waste characterization 00:59:21.120 --> 00:59:26.080 study took samples from residential homes multi-family properties and commercial properties 00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:31.920 and the results told us that of that waste stream about 32 percent of it was considered 00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:36.400 food waste so that's pre-consumer and post-consumer that is a huge number 00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:43.680 so just to give a quick background some of the things that we're doing prior to the pilot that 00:59:43.680 --> 00:59:49.920 we just put into place we offer a commercial organics program to our commercial businesses 00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:56.320 it is a front-load service just like this picture here we have several customers it is mostly big 00:59:56.320 --> 01:00:03.440 box stores like walmart sams morrison millings those types of places we do only collect pre-consumer 01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:08.000 food waste which is just their raw fruits and vegetables there is some bread that goes into 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:13.440 those dumpsters as well that gets delivered straight over to beneficial reuse it goes into 01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:20.160 their windrows like a compost and gets put right there so in last year fiscal year 22 23 we were 01:00:20.160 --> 01:00:27.520 able to deliver 792 tons of food waste to them and then moving on to residential and most of 01:00:27.520 --> 01:00:32.160 you are probably aware but we have a curbside yard waste cart so outside of just putting grass 01:00:32.160 --> 01:00:37.760 clippings and small branches you can also put your pre-consumer food waste items in there as well 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:43.920 we at that level of residential it's mostly you know most people preparing fruits and vegetables 01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:49.680 it just goes in those things like that so nothing that has been cooked no graces no fats we do 01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:54.960 introduce some eggshells from time to time some coffee grounds and we have about a 26 01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:58.800 percent participation rate for our residents using that bin for that purpose 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:05.200 so it brings us to our commercial organics pilot so knowing we again we have about 32 01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:10.960 percent of food waste that is missing being diverted from the landfill so that's kind of 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:16.080 where we want to introduce post-consumer so we already had a couple of programs in place 01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:20.560 for our pre-consumer we know that this is probably where we're missing the mark a lot of people are 01:01:20.560 --> 01:01:25.280 cooking their foods and they have those leftovers that they're not able to use and they're just 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:30.800 scraping the plate so that's the material that we wanted to capture i just wanted to point out that 01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:34.480 none of this would be possible without our partnership with wastewater and environmental 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:39.840 services of course and some important information to talk about is our existing infrastructure so 01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:45.200 we're really lucky that we own and operate our own landfill and our collections and wastewater 01:01:45.200 --> 01:01:50.080 has their own treatment plan as well so they have a digester they have all of the underground 01:01:50.080 --> 01:01:55.040 piping that they need and they have the placement so all of it kind of starts us at a net zero 01:01:55.040 --> 01:01:59.840 starting out you know not needing a lot of funding to get this pilot off the ground 01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:03.840 there is some grant funding so the north central texas council governments 01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:08.320 awarded us a grant to help us pay for some items that we'll talk about in a little bit 01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:14.320 so i want to introduce you to our customers so our customers are going to be the downtown 01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:20.320 fry street area you may have seen this before we're back in 2019 we removed all the dumpsters from 01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:25.200 the streets and we gave them all carts so just like residential they're all provided a trash 01:02:25.200 --> 01:02:30.800 and a residential cart this is a premium service they're collected multiple times a day depending 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:36.320 on their level of tier that they are signed up to pay for up to five times some are three times so 01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:43.120 we do go out there multiple times there's about 150 customers that are on valet services and through 01:02:43.120 --> 01:02:48.560 this implementation of switching them over from dumpsters to carts we're able to build a really 01:02:48.560 --> 01:02:52.560 good relationship with them as well so we knew that we already had and and with the main street 01:02:52.560 --> 01:02:58.720 association they actually wrote us a letter of recommendation as we applied for our grant so 01:02:58.720 --> 01:03:04.000 thinking about those 150 customers you know who is going to be having the most food waste was kind of 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:09.760 the question that we had to ask ourselves about 50 of them were bars and restaurants and then taking 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:15.440 it even just a step further you know there are some bars that serve bar food but mostly we knew 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:20.000 restaurants were probably the main one producing them the biggest amount of post-consumer food 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:25.200 waste is what we were trying to capture so the restaurants became our focus in this area and 01:03:25.200 --> 01:03:33.760 there is about 30 of those between both areas so I want to introduce you to our equipment so some of 01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:38.160 the new equipment that was purchased with grant funding so again this is actually wastewater you 01:03:38.160 --> 01:03:43.520 probably recognize in the background so they had the space for us but we had to buy a couple things 01:03:43.520 --> 01:03:48.880 to get the program going so these post-consumer food waste is going to end up in the digester 01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:54.640 and it needed to be grinded up because now we're going to introduce bones and raw meat and any 01:03:54.640 --> 01:03:59.280 table scraps pizza all those things they can't just be entered into the windmill without going 01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:03.760 through this process first so we had to purchase a grinder you can see it's right on top it's the 01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:09.280 final piece and so it's really simple you open up the lid drop the food in I have a video for y'all 01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:16.720 and then it's going to hit several blades with 24 teeth on each blade and it will break it down 01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:21.040 to about a quarter inch and so breaks it down to a little bit of pieces and then it will push it 01:04:21.040 --> 01:04:25.600 through so actually goes down to the bottom piece which is the pump the pump will feed it right to 01:04:25.600 --> 01:04:31.760 the digester um brandy we have a question yes you said windrow is that is that the facility where 01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:37.840 they make the diamond dirt yes okay thank you thank you and please stop me you have a question 01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:44.480 i'm a fast talker all right so looking at the supply so this is for our customers we wanted 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:49.280 to set them up for success give them everything that they needed so the first thing that you're 01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:54.880 looking at here is their kitchen bin so this bin was meant to be used inside of the restaurant 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:58.880 really for them just to store material throughout the day so as they're prepping in the kitchen or 01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.880 cleaning off tables they can put them in those buckets so it's a five gallon bucket and there 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:07.120 are some educational material on it that we'll talk about next and so that's meant to be inside 01:05:07.120 --> 01:05:11.840 it does have a lid there is best practices that's listed on there where they should store it to 01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:17.040 reduce odor and those kind of things as well and then the second one is the outside bin so that's 01:05:17.040 --> 01:05:22.560 going to go right beside the trash bin and beside the recycling bin what you can't see here is this 01:05:22.560 --> 01:05:28.320 lock or this car is locked so there is a lock on it that's just going to prevent any scavenging or 01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:34.960 if it accidentally gets knocked over or whether somebody just walking by on a bad day none of 01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:39.120 those things would get spilled out onto the ground so each business would be provided with 01:05:39.120 --> 01:05:43.360 the indoor cart or the indoor bin and then keys or the outdoor cart 01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:50.880 so some of the education and outreach that was performed so outreach we went out door to door had 01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:57.440 conversations with each of the 30 restaurants really wanted to outline them with exactly what to expect 01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:03.600 you know what is the program items are acceptable how long the pilot is going to run for so we gave 01:06:03.600 --> 01:06:09.920 them all flyer with all of that information was able to talk to each of them and give the material 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:17.040 everybody was presented with a poster which is on this far side the poster is large it's 24 by 16 01:06:17.040 --> 01:06:22.400 so it's really big we didn't know how they would handle that but some people wanted multiple posters 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:27.520 so it's good that they wanted to see it and then some of the educational material as you can see 01:06:27.520 --> 01:06:32.880 everything is very consistent and all saves the same message it tells them exactly what they can 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:38.720 put in the car and what they shouldn't put in the car so those prohibited items obviously is styrofoam 01:06:38.720 --> 01:06:44.080 plastic bags those kind of things you don't want but really anything that is food it can go inside 01:06:44.080 --> 01:06:48.960 that cart and again giving them those best practices and you know how to wash their container how to 01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:54.400 manage it to to prevent any rodents or whatnot on the inside and then we saw the waste and recycling 01:06:54.400 --> 01:07:02.880 cleaning organics bins weekly i think we do it weekly all of any of those messes 01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:09.920 so looking at the collection piece of it so again you know with our existing infrastructure 01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:14.880 we already have valet staff they're already in the area they're down there multiple times a day 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:20.160 so we have the equipment to handle it we have the trucks this is harvey he's our crew leader kind 01:07:20.160 --> 01:07:24.720 of ran that show and we did have to do a practice run because we want to make sure it worked before 01:07:24.720 --> 01:07:29.440 we started which is the video that i have for you so i'm going to try to see if it will play 01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:42.720 i'm gonna mute it so you don't hear me scream 01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:52.720 so 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:15.680 so that was our practice round so as you can see it's it's type of a process so because we had to 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:20.720 get the grinder and the pump that thing is about eight feet in the air so it's not easy to get the 01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:25.520 material up in the air so you can't see here but you can tell that there's a forklift involved 01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:30.720 in that as well so there's a lot of aftermarket things that had to be added on so luckily we have 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:37.120 a great group of welders in solid waste they were able to build a catwalk and retrofit everything 01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:42.480 that we needed to safely get up there and manage that material so just talking about contamination 01:08:42.480 --> 01:08:46.720 a little bit so in the very beginning as we started we went out introduced everybody to the 01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:52.480 program everybody got started in july we initially seen a lot of pre-consumer food waste but i think 01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:56.480 it's where people are putting their buckets mostly in their kitchen as they're preparing food 01:08:56.480 --> 01:09:02.480 they weren't really using it as like a table scraps yet and so you can see in the pictures 01:09:02.480 --> 01:09:06.480 here we have lots of bread in this one container and then below it lots of fruits and vegetables 01:09:07.360 --> 01:09:11.600 we did have slight contamination maybe like a paper around a piece of bread here and there 01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:18.000 or plastic bag the nice part about valet is we touch every single container so unlike residential 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:22.880 they're not collected with the you know automatic side load where they're just grabbing them going 01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:26.640 we actually have staff touching the container opening the container so we're able to find any 01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:31.120 contamination before it enters the truck and then also we know exactly where it's coming from 01:09:31.120 --> 01:09:35.120 because the cart's right behind the business and so we can immediately go around have a 01:09:35.120 --> 01:09:40.000 conversation with them and let them know so once we found out we were getting a lot of pre-consumer 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.960 we wanted to encourage that post-consumer so we went back out had conversations with them again 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:49.120 let them know this is the things that can go in there make sure we're very clear that you know 01:09:49.120 --> 01:09:54.400 they can put table scraps we want all of those items which introduced a new contamination to us 01:09:54.400 --> 01:10:01.520 which was silverware so we quickly ran into an issue issue with it luckily the grinder is 01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:06.560 set up for success and they have a lot of safety features that shuts everything down so as soon as 01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:12.160 they need that silverware makes it to the blade it stops it so we're able to back it out but working 01:10:12.160 --> 01:10:17.120 with environmental services we made a really quick flag to go out and put it on every single 01:10:17.120 --> 01:10:22.960 container went back out had conversations with businesses that we believe might have been the 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:28.880 corporate of the butter knife we could figure it out by seeing other butter knives and then we also 01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:33.600 changed our practices to incorporate some magnets into the collection so that we can grab those items 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:42.960 before they make it into that grinder so all pilots you got to see what's going on so some 01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:48.720 of our key performance indicators are here so the first graph you're seeing is the participation rate 01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.240 and so again we delivered buckets to about 30 businesses downtown we started in july and we 01:10:54.240 --> 01:11:01.040 ran it for about six months you can see the first is 31 so we need about 31 of the businesses were 01:11:01.040 --> 01:11:07.040 actually putting items in their cart so valet was able to track that this doesn't show how full is 01:11:07.040 --> 01:11:11.200 their cart some of them were quarter full some were half full we have one customer who builds two 01:11:11.200 --> 01:11:18.560 full carts every single week so hurrah for them but as you can see as we went along the more 01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:23.200 communication we have with them as we started the program we went out every other week in the 01:11:23.200 --> 01:11:27.840 beginning and then we were able to stretch it out to monthly or as needed but in september we had a 01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:34.880 huge jump of 85 which is exactly what we would love to see you can see we have 73 69 so really 01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:40.560 just in between 50 and 60 which is it's a great turnout for us and then the second graph shows 01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:46.800 you your collection by waste type now this does include all of valet so it's not just the 30 01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:52.880 businesses the first part of the line is your trash so you can see in july about 70 tons of 01:11:52.880 --> 01:12:00.320 trash was collected and then right below that is the recycling which was 6.3 tons and then the 01:12:00.320 --> 01:12:06.080 organics which was 4.1 tons and as you watch it grow you can see in august we kind of had a dip 01:12:06.080 --> 01:12:12.400 they're probably still trying to figure it out but september we moved it to 5.7 october we collected 01:12:12.400 --> 01:12:17.440 nine tons so we're seeing that grow on the bottom and the really cool thing to look at is the trash 01:12:17.440 --> 01:12:22.560 so you start to see it go down which is exactly what we want to see so we were collecting 70 tons 01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:27.280 and then you see these peaks are these lows down here in november of 43 tons of trash this 01:12:27.280 --> 01:12:33.120 organics number on the side there is that including this pilot program as well as the 01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:38.640 yard waste bin or no this is just the pilot okay that's fascinating it's crazy to see that 01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:44.320 ranked up with right there with recycling and it's heavy yard or food waste is heavy too so we expect 01:12:44.320 --> 01:12:49.520 it to be a lot heavier but it is a great graph to visualize exactly what's happening 01:12:52.320 --> 01:12:58.800 all right then wrapping up the pilot program we went out and we gave them a participant survey 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:04.240 wanted to get their feedback we made it super easy just five simple questions scan this qr code 01:13:04.240 --> 01:13:10.480 please we want your feedback overall we got an average rating of 4.88 it's not a five but we will 01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:17.040 take a 4.88 most respondents said it was extremely easy which is great so they understood the program 01:13:17.040 --> 01:13:23.360 it wasn't hard most reported problem problem was staffing issues so this was something we quickly 01:13:23.360 --> 01:13:28.480 realized that there was a high turnover turnover in restaurants so every time we would go back and 01:13:28.480 --> 01:13:33.440 have a conversation it was always a new manager it was always a new staff but they were always very 01:13:33.440 --> 01:13:38.640 open to hear our story we would tell them the same message they were always very eager we had a lot 01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:43.360 of people who are excited about it but getting their staff to take one additional step was the 01:13:43.360 --> 01:13:48.160 most most challenge that we would hear from them and then some of the improvements this is just a 01:13:48.160 --> 01:13:56.000 fun one and said make it mandatory so everybody wants to see it and then just next steps for us 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:02.160 is making it a permanent service for ballet step one we are currently still running it in our ballet 01:14:02.160 --> 01:14:09.520 program downtown we are pending the tceq approval we have received verbal approval to move forward 01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:14.160 but we're just pending they're written so right now we are still moving along we're still doing 01:14:14.160 --> 01:14:20.400 ballet and then after that our plan is to do some multi-stage phases we're planning to work with 01:14:20.400 --> 01:14:27.280 environmental services and getting into dentin isd we'll keep it very micro pilot so probably just 01:14:27.280 --> 01:14:33.600 one school and working with them getting with the university's multifamily we really want to try it 01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:38.960 out with different types of businesses to see how it works ultimately the goal is to spread it across 01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:43.520 all of the commercial businesses that's a couple years out from there and then at the end of the 01:14:43.520 --> 01:14:51.520 day having some sort of residential drop off for post-consumer so that thing that is it any questions 01:14:51.520 --> 01:15:00.400 adam go ahead yeah first of all this is great thank you very educational and i'm glad to see 01:15:00.400 --> 01:15:05.600 you're having success with this um it different of questions so you're educating with these 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:11.520 categories they've got pre-consumer and then even the post-consumer is there a category for 01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:18.400 food that's still edible like you know i don't know a grocery store or donut shop or something 01:15:18.400 --> 01:15:25.760 and do you all track that and is there a way to actually get that food not just to a composting 01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:32.160 program but to hungry people is that in the conversation at all and currently no um but 01:15:32.160 --> 01:15:36.800 yeah right now we're just tracking you know what is going into the carts that is getting collected 01:15:36.800 --> 01:15:45.920 by us and but not a current conversation but for future okay friend only praise for you guys about 01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:49.760 every time you come because it's always just so exhilarating to hear of all the good ideas 01:15:49.760 --> 01:15:54.960 that you guys have um loved this i worked at a restaurant downtown ran into you several times 01:15:54.960 --> 01:16:01.520 actually and in our space there in those old buildings space was always the biggest challenge 01:16:01.520 --> 01:16:05.840 i love that you guys thought of storage and it sounds like you really communicated well 01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:11.920 with nsa and and your vendors there that this looks like it's going to be a really cool program 01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:16.480 everyone there always talked about like gosh how could we do something better in this space and 01:16:16.480 --> 01:16:21.520 there was just never any structural option for us to get rid of or divert food from just going into 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:26.080 the dumpster so this is a really great idea i would love to start seeing it rolled out especially at 01:16:26.080 --> 01:16:31.200 the university level it's a conversation that we have every single time we meet on our sustainability 01:16:31.200 --> 01:16:39.200 council there um so really really excited to see how this program scales thank you yeah this is 01:16:39.200 --> 01:16:44.560 great it's great to see the progress a lot of thought a lot of effort gone into it it's paying 01:16:44.560 --> 01:16:52.880 off it's great uh i was just wondering that the 26 participation rate residential 01:16:52.880 --> 01:17:00.160 are there any plans to try to increase that i think so i think we have been adding more 01:17:00.160 --> 01:17:04.480 social media posts about the pre-consumer food waste i think a lot of people just aren't familiar 01:17:04.480 --> 01:17:08.960 with this i think the hard part is not everybody follows social and so those are some of the 01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:13.440 challenges that you know we run into but citizen connection like all of those things have been 01:17:13.440 --> 01:17:20.320 getting added so absolutely good and also just mirroring what adam said i've seen other programs 01:17:20.320 --> 01:17:29.760 where the the edible edibles are given to places like our daily bread and so i hope at some point 01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:38.560 that that becomes a consideration to it i also had a question on that metric um the 26 participation 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:45.280 is that for using the yard waste bin period or using pre-consumer foods within the yard waste bin 01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:50.640 i believe it's a yard waste bin so roughly a quarter of solid waste users have a yard waste 01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:57.680 bin that they use yes i also had a question on that too because i know that it's fantastic by 01:17:57.680 --> 01:18:02.720 the way and i use mine all the time but i know that when that program originally came out it was 01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:09.040 a a fee like an extra fee and i wonder if that prevented a lot of people originally from doing 01:18:09.040 --> 01:18:14.480 that and i know it has since been um i don't think there is a separate fee for that anymore 01:18:14.480 --> 01:18:21.680 maybe for the bin but not monthly that's correct and so i wonder if that originally you know extra 01:18:21.680 --> 01:18:26.560 added monthly cost prevented people from joining and then it just kind of like flew by the way like 01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:33.120 they just forgot about it so i don't know if maybe that's why it's low it hasn't increased or 01:18:33.120 --> 01:18:39.200 maybe that's no i agree i think that's possible i know that one of the things we've been working on 01:18:39.200 --> 01:18:46.160 is getting um brian's coming up too but getting more information out about the bin and it is a 01:18:46.160 --> 01:18:51.440 one-time fee of 20 but that's it one time but getting more information out to our residents so 01:18:51.440 --> 01:18:55.760 that they know that they can buy it and no environmental services just sent out a postcard 01:18:55.760 --> 01:19:01.520 to a very heavily treated area just kind of promoting that and helping them um recognize 01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:05.760 you know the craft bags how many go into a car and trying to promote that and then 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:11.200 brian what you want to end i'll just say i love what it is it's fantastic well good afternoon i'm 01:19:11.200 --> 01:19:16.080 brian burner i'm solid waste director here in the city and to answer your question or to add on to 01:19:16.080 --> 01:19:21.360 the response here you know we didn't see a market improvement in the number of folks that jumped on 01:19:21.360 --> 01:19:27.600 once we we brought the fee we've considered to we've continued to see people log log into the 01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:32.320 program and in fact we've gotten a fairly substantial slug of people asking for carts 01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:36.960 following our storm here in the past couple of weeks you know so you know sometimes you know 01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:41.760 the adverse is really a positive for us but at the end of the day we've got to remember that in the 01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:48.240 city of denton we're not uniformly treated you look up on the north side north of 380 south of 380 01:19:48.240 --> 01:19:53.200 very heavily very densely treated you get to go towards the south of the community it's very 01:19:53.200 --> 01:19:58.800 likely treated so at the end of the day you know i think the maximum amount we'd probably see is 01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:04.480 about 50 60 percent only because that's really where the peak is of the two lines crossing and 01:20:04.480 --> 01:20:10.720 people that that have enough uh brush to fulfill a yard part on a week or bi-weekly basis versus 01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:14.960 those that may just have a handful of stuff that they have to you know either compost on site just 01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:20.320 on the radio trash can whatever brand you have a question for him it builds off of this so when 01:20:20.320 --> 01:20:24.080 we're kind of talking about scaling out and understanding that roughly a quarter of the 01:20:24.080 --> 01:20:29.920 community has these bins to begin with just for yard waste pre-consumer when you're thinking 01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:36.720 about residential level if we're thinking about residential level post-consumer waste are we 01:20:36.720 --> 01:20:42.400 thinking about different bin types or sizes given the what volume we get to clarify we will never go 01:20:42.400 --> 01:20:48.720 house to house to house compost consumer waste so that carp will not exist okay we're going to be 01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:55.040 promoting either one self-composting compost bin in your yard or potentially setting up some sort 01:20:55.040 --> 01:20:59.520 of system where you bring it to a centralized location and we take it from there and right now 01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:04.720 between the pre-consumer waste you eat everything that you have and wash plates off that is really 01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:09.840 designed optimally i mean we don't want to have just massive amount of waste so part of our 01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:15.520 education you see in the future is sort of menu planning right planning you know eat what you make 01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:20.960 make what you going back to what our grandmother's told us clean your plate you know that's what you 01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:27.840 gotta do so you would see this program specifically mainly targeting those large commercial vendors 01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:36.240 and then our denser valley services correct so i have some questions about the presentation so 01:21:36.240 --> 01:21:43.200 maybe friends that's right so one i'm just super excited about this i can't thank you enough like 01:21:43.200 --> 01:21:53.440 this is fantastic so that that's that oh i i'm wondering on the version so like you had the 01:21:53.440 --> 01:22:05.200 792 tons of impact reduction so like have we or can we as we're bringing those to council or 01:22:05.200 --> 01:22:11.040 coming back here or putting out the public kid because people like numbers is there a way to say 01:22:11.040 --> 01:22:17.200 okay well that is so much space in our landfill which you know we'll say okay so the more food 01:22:17.200 --> 01:22:26.480 waste we keep out the longer this our our landfill will we can keep using it right so like that that's 01:22:26.480 --> 01:22:33.200 pretty important for us as we're talking about reduction in our landfill so like do we have those 01:22:33.200 --> 01:22:41.520 numbers so say you know we get 100 participation from the larger people that were asking to do this 01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:47.520 what does that look like like does that saves us a lot of landfill space in in the future or 01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:55.040 i mean it's pretty significant amount yeah the tonnage up front is significant the thing you 01:22:55.040 --> 01:23:00.080 gotta remember about food waste it's a majority water once the water evaporates it exits about 01:23:00.080 --> 01:23:05.280 leachate it shrinks okay and then all of a sudden it decays you take the molecules of gas out so at 01:23:05.280 --> 01:23:09.680 the end of the day you know food waste is really one of those things we really want the landfill 01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:15.040 because again over the 30 years it really compacts it really doesn't take up much space of life 01:23:15.040 --> 01:23:20.560 landfill if we're looking at extending life landfill we've got to focus on on like construction 01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:26.160 demolition those things that do not rot that do not break down that take up a lot of space 01:23:26.160 --> 01:23:31.680 you know mattresses mattresses are the bane of landfills because again they're very light they 01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:36.320 take up a lot of space so we gotta figure out a way to manage those but again going back to food 01:23:36.320 --> 01:23:42.480 waste you know when you look when you're looking at the long sum of this the amount of space that 01:23:42.480 --> 01:23:50.000 it actually takes up is in the long term is is fairly minimal okay so then what is the is the 01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:57.760 one i know the benefit to me but i'm saying like for you to support this program to fund it to keep 01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:05.440 going right what is that is that benefit for the city well part of it is you know it it is part of 01:24:05.440 --> 01:24:10.560 the waste stream coming in so again if we can break it out and not have to manage it on the front end 01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:16.720 it's less material that we have to to manage here immediately uh secondarily we are very heavily 01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:21.680 regulated by both the state and federal governments so we you know this this decay that happens is 01:24:21.680 --> 01:24:27.600 you know forms into landfill gas which is methane oxygen sulfur dioxide you know things of that 01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:34.080 nature so if we can move this out of the landfill it actually benefits us from a cost standpoint of 01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:40.080 managing that type of waste that comes out of the landfill so there are net benefits to us from a 01:24:40.080 --> 01:24:48.240 cost standpoint if it's not the long fund of moving losing landfill to pex so it also for our purposes 01:24:48.240 --> 01:24:54.640 in the sustainability committee reduces those emissions and may reduce flaring from the gases 01:24:54.640 --> 01:25:02.480 that that it puts off correct okay thank you you're welcome and i'm excited about um disd i know they 01:25:02.480 --> 01:25:09.440 have a like their food waste is probably equal to the city of titan residents i mean it's a lot i've 01:25:09.440 --> 01:25:15.600 seen just so kids get their whole trays i'll just dump them um so i'm excited about maybe that 01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:25.040 uh partnership and also unt and twu and um so my question is for the the restaurants people that 01:25:25.040 --> 01:25:32.000 do participate is it a is it a cost of it no no currently because they're not generating more 01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:36.720 waste they're just moving it from one bin to the next oh okay um so we were able to keep it cost 01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:43.120 neutral um now as a commercial business as they implement a new program there will be a fee that 01:25:43.120 --> 01:25:47.280 we don't know what that fee is yet but there will be but for ballet it's not because we're already 01:25:47.280 --> 01:25:54.640 down there they're just moving it around basically okay and then um can you just run through the cycle 01:25:54.640 --> 01:26:01.680 of it for us so um there's the food waste they get put in the bin the bin gets picked and kind of had 01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:08.720 a little yeah yeah yeah no it's a process so um the first you know the businesses put it in their 01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:13.920 kitchen bin inside and then they carry it out into the day or how many times they need to they put it 01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:19.040 into the outdoor bin our ballet staff collects it every morning so they go by in a morning shift it 01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:25.120 goes every single day saturday and sunday and they'll collect it they actually put it on a trailer 01:26:25.120 --> 01:26:30.000 we don't even put it in a truck right now we just it works out better that way for us so they'll take 01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:35.120 it in a trailer drive it across town go across the scales of a way in and then we go over to 01:26:35.120 --> 01:26:39.360 wastewater so we work with wastewater we call them and tell them they're on the way because 01:26:39.360 --> 01:26:44.240 they manage all of the equipment on site in case something's down they need to be to tell be able 01:26:44.240 --> 01:26:50.640 to tell us no once we get there we actually install the ramp in just like a i don't know what it is 01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:57.440 like a low spot at wastewater and so we will work at that point to move all of the material from the 01:26:57.440 --> 01:27:03.840 carts into the white thing that you see dropper dropping is the hopper and so go into that hopper 01:27:03.840 --> 01:27:08.960 and then that hopper is then carried over by the forklift to the equipment site and then it just 01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:14.160 goes straight up in the air that's right and there's a clean off station and everything so we'll clean 01:27:14.160 --> 01:27:18.800 off the material clean out the bucket make sure there's nothing on the ground and then it cycles 01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:24.400 back into what what is it so to the digester so it goes the grinding process goes straight to the 01:27:24.400 --> 01:27:32.640 pump the pump shoots it back and then it ultimately they we tied into an unused or retired system 01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:37.200 piping system i don't know how you call it and then it shoots back up straight to the digester 01:27:37.200 --> 01:27:44.480 and then from there does it come to the sledge yep and from there the the bio solids are dumped 01:27:44.480 --> 01:27:50.080 and put into the windrows of the downer dirt process so again you know we're using existing 01:27:50.080 --> 01:27:55.920 infrastructures existing staff to actually enhance the program now again this is a pilot 01:27:55.920 --> 01:28:00.320 you know long term what we want to be able to do as part of the wastewater treatment plant redesign 01:28:00.320 --> 01:28:05.760 which is currently about to kick off is we actually want to create a system that instead of having to 01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:10.480 manage this material eight feet in the air it's at ground level so you pour it in it grinds and it 01:28:10.480 --> 01:28:16.480 goes automatically and it's safer easier to be able to manage much larger volume we talked about 01:28:16.480 --> 01:28:21.600 needing approval from the tcq because we're actually putting another component in the in the 01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:27.760 wastewater process that required basically a permanent amendment and that's part of what 01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:32.880 that approval is to ensure that the way this is designed is that does not impact the flow 01:28:32.880 --> 01:28:38.960 or the operation of the facility we received you know ripped approval on the solid waste side 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:43.360 we've received verbal approval we're just waiting for the written approval on the waste water side 01:28:43.360 --> 01:28:48.320 that's fantastic i just see it like as a cycle it is it just it just goes back well and at the end 01:28:48.320 --> 01:28:52.800 of the day you know part of part of what we have to recognize is in this digester not only are we 01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:57.280 breaking down the organics to go into the sludge of the biosod there's also natural gas that comes 01:28:57.280 --> 01:29:01.840 off the top part of that natural gas is used to actually keep the digesters towards the process 01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:06.560 so what we want to be able to do is create excess natural gas that will be sold back 01:29:07.440 --> 01:29:14.080 to a renewable natural gas company who will make that into pipeline very quality gas dropping into 01:29:14.080 --> 01:29:18.240 an atmost line that we have on the north side of the facility and actually what we do is what we 01:29:18.240 --> 01:29:23.040 will be doing is supplanting existing demand that currently exists so we don't have to take it you 01:29:23.040 --> 01:29:28.640 know from from a wellhead it's that renewable natural gas that the landfill and the wastewater 01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:33.840 plant already so then we get rid of the flares on both sides and we're actually putting this 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:39.280 beneficial reuse back into the community well i appreciate y'all's presentation today and for 01:29:39.280 --> 01:29:44.240 waiting patiently for the first presentation thank you so much i think we're good everybody 01:29:44.240 --> 01:29:50.880 good yeah thank you brandy thank you all right so we will move on to our next item receive a 01:29:50.880 --> 01:30:04.080 report hold the discussion and give staff direction regarding this employment action plan 01:30:04.080 --> 01:30:07.680 chair committee members michael garnier director of environmental service sustainability i have 01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:12.480 catherine here as well another staff that have been part of the overall plan it's been a while 01:30:12.480 --> 01:30:17.200 since we've been in front of y'all with the climate action plan you may notice the word adaptation is 01:30:17.200 --> 01:30:22.320 not there we've been focused more on the actual actions they know that adaptation goes beyond 01:30:22.320 --> 01:30:28.400 what was really in there initially so just to put a little bit of perspective this is more of a 01:30:28.400 --> 01:30:33.200 reminder we have some new members of council as well we had one new member here she's not present 01:30:33.200 --> 01:30:39.840 this started back in april 2022 when council took action to establish science-based targets 01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:45.760 and established a need for the actual formal climate action plan that's what's actually being 01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:52.080 discussed today the graphic on the right hand side of the slide is the emission sources as broken 01:30:52.080 --> 01:30:57.760 down by our 2019 greenhouse gas inventory which of course the elephant in the room always is 01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:03.600 transportation 53 percent the bear for how we move buildings is 35 percent and the other is roughly 01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:08.400 12 other is fugitive emissions and some landfill emissions that you just heard about from several 01:31:08.400 --> 01:31:13.760 places sorry michael i'm trying to check with you is your presentation in our backup no it is not 01:31:15.280 --> 01:31:21.120 i'm sorry to clarify we did a dry run on late on tuesday i couldn't make it back in time so i 01:31:21.120 --> 01:31:27.280 apologize so this is just a quick timeline this is also for new members and all of y'all were here 01:31:27.280 --> 01:31:31.360 for this but it does talk to a little bit of for council to make sure they know we started back in 01:31:31.360 --> 01:31:38.720 april 2022 got a contract in place by july had a draft in front of them in october of last year 01:31:38.720 --> 01:31:43.280 we had come before this committee three different times as well during that planning process to 01:31:43.280 --> 01:31:46.640 talk about outreach different things the actions the goals and the targets 01:31:46.640 --> 01:31:53.120 if you got the chance to watch it this is kind of a summary of feedback from council 01:31:53.120 --> 01:31:58.800 during the october 24 2023 work session some of the things we heard was i got confusion over what 01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:04.240 do we directly control who's actually affected by the plan what are we asking people to do is 01:32:04.240 --> 01:32:09.280 this going to be mandatory it's going to be voluntary how did we calculate savings how do 01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:16.720 the evie forecast align with market conditions some you know another one the big one was is it 01:32:16.720 --> 01:32:24.320 going to be voluntary mandatory and then the overall overarching need for an awareness or 01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:29.440 outreach to make sure the community is aware of all the different resources and the needs to move 01:32:29.440 --> 01:32:36.640 this plan forward so as we move through to answer one of the first questions just as a clarity this 01:32:36.640 --> 01:32:42.080 climate action plan covers all of that everything in green on the graphic everything in green is 01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:47.360 covered by the plan what does the city of denton directly control as y'all are aware we control 01:32:47.360 --> 01:32:51.920 our fleet for sure our facilities our infrastructure and then we get down into where we can do 01:32:51.920 --> 01:32:57.840 ordinances codes zoning requirements or rates similar to what you heard from dne earlier 01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:03.600 there's different things we do control that can drive the actions to move the climate action plan 01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:11.280 forward one thing that wasn't discussed really as clearly during the initial briefings on some of 01:33:11.280 --> 01:33:16.320 the climate action plan was the regulatory context just as a reminder in the state of texas the state 01:33:16.320 --> 01:33:24.320 legislature said we as a city can't directly or indirectly affect what utilities the way to put 01:33:24.320 --> 01:33:30.160 that layman's term is i can't say only use electric or only use natural gas it's an open market so as 01:33:30.160 --> 01:33:35.760 the buildings and how things get built we can't limit we can't influence how those utility 01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:40.320 development can't speed up permits we can't slow down permits can't charge more fees it's pretty 01:33:40.320 --> 01:33:46.640 simple in that regard as a reminder the state energy conservation officer cico sets the state 01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:52.640 wide energy code and all already there is reminded that they're currently at 2015 we here in denton 01:33:52.640 --> 01:33:57.360 have already adopted 2021 international energy conservation code and we're currently reviewing 01:33:57.360 --> 01:34:05.280 2024 the right hand side hud recently updated their speakers so hud's going from 2009 to 2021 01:34:05.280 --> 01:34:12.640 what they have estimated is by moving from 2009 to upgrade to the 2021 code overall there's a 40 01:34:12.640 --> 01:34:20.480 percent efficiency gain also the icc updates on a three-year cycle and each one of those cycles 01:34:20.480 --> 01:34:25.840 effectively brings or gains eight percent efficiency the other thing hud says is one of 01:34:25.840 --> 01:34:32.000 their supports of making this change is their proposed they're predicting that moving from 2009 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:38.720 to 2021 a individual single-family house could realize one thousand dollars per year for energy 01:34:38.720 --> 01:34:46.880 savings and multi-family households can save four one thing we've spent a whole lot of time on over 01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:50.480 the last six months is trying to look across everything the city's already working we heard 01:34:50.480 --> 01:34:54.080 some things just a little while ago on the comprehensive solid waste management strategy 01:34:54.080 --> 01:34:58.880 we as a city have a lot of plans this is just five examples if you don't know which ones they are 01:34:58.880 --> 01:35:03.440 just in case it starts on the left hand side is simply sustainable framework which all are 01:35:03.440 --> 01:35:08.560 clearly aware of and been intimately involved with then there's the mobility plan the parks and 01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:14.000 trails master plan the one where the title is hard to see is the denton 2040 comprehensive plan 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:18.160 that's the blue document and on the far right is the comprehensive solid waste management strategy 01:35:18.160 --> 01:35:22.880 so we spent a lot of time in here trying to show how the actions being proposed to move our climate 01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:30.800 credentials tie into plans that are already adopted so to jump right into it we've adjusted 01:35:30.800 --> 01:35:36.560 the planning or the discussions that were presented to council to come back with an overarching one 01:35:36.560 --> 01:35:42.400 first goal is how people move how the community moves or gets around or delivers goods within the 01:35:42.400 --> 01:35:48.000 city today so it's focused on movement or transportation within that we have five key actions 01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:54.880 which you've seen before it goes down with instead of having fleet sources broken out separately we 01:35:54.880 --> 01:36:00.800 roll them all together the cpa the city of denton public businesses are all in action 1.1 01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:05.200 then we pulled out to improve the active transportation infrastructure 01:36:05.200 --> 01:36:09.200 to actually make sure we're building that structure that infrastructure make sure it's 01:36:09.200 --> 01:36:14.560 accessible and available we also want to encourage people to walk and bike or use no emission modes 01:36:14.560 --> 01:36:19.600 how do we get that out of vehicles the next one is how do we decrease the total number of vehicle 01:36:19.600 --> 01:36:24.800 trips and vehicles how do we get people out of cars and actually walking or biking or doing other 01:36:24.800 --> 01:36:29.760 means the last one we want to make sure we're positioned in case the heavy duty fleet goes 01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:34.320 towards the hydrogen market that we're not missing that so still want to be closely involved with 01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:40.080 facilitating the installation of a green hydrogen facility here in denton if that's the way that 01:36:40.080 --> 01:36:45.200 market goes we want to make sure we're not losing perspective on that the far right hand column says 01:36:45.200 --> 01:36:49.040 resident action what that means is we have some questions over what are we actually asking the 01:36:49.040 --> 01:36:54.320 community to do these are the actions when it says yes we're going to ask them to change behavior 01:36:54.320 --> 01:37:00.800 or invest their own dollars in making the change so when it comes to the fleet it could be making 01:37:00.800 --> 01:37:07.840 a change in how you use your fleet or making the change in buying an ev or some other vehicle has 01:37:07.840 --> 01:37:12.640 composed to a gas engine but that's what the yes there means because generally speaking the public 01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:16.800 is not going to directly invest in the infrastructure for active transportation 01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:24.160 the next goal we're focused on which is the the bearing room which is buildings the goal would be 01:37:24.160 --> 01:37:30.400 to improve the efficiency resiliency and reduce the long-term impact of how we use those buildings 01:37:30.400 --> 01:37:35.760 so we've walked through all the actions here there's eight actions they start out with 01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:40.160 efficient energy efficiency upgrades in existing buildings helping people encouraging people and 01:37:40.160 --> 01:37:45.760 showing the value and changing how a building operates the second one is probably one of our 01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:50.400 critical ones it actually gets to how do we actually consume energy how do we change our 01:37:50.400 --> 01:37:56.880 energy set points do we need the air conditioner 73 could we do 75 those kind of things how do we 01:37:56.880 --> 01:38:01.040 actually operate and use how do we reduce our overall energy consumption also start the city 01:38:01.040 --> 01:38:06.560 facilities then we get into the very high efficiency energy standard that was one that was debated a 01:38:06.560 --> 01:38:11.280 lot some people call it the passive house standard they're trying to look at that for new buildings 01:38:11.280 --> 01:38:16.400 how do we actually make that happen then we get into zero emission systems which really ties into 01:38:16.400 --> 01:38:22.640 the heat pump discussion primarily but it's heating and cooling and natural in your hot water heating 01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:27.520 and how do we get those to be zero emissions then we start moving into what you just heard a little 01:38:27.520 --> 01:38:33.040 bit on was organics so we get into we want to reduce the amount of waste produced per capita 01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:38.720 we want to increase waste diversion obviously as you just heard we want to maximize organic 01:38:38.720 --> 01:38:44.880 diversion for renewable natural gas and the last one which we just recently you remember the date 01:38:44.880 --> 01:38:48.480 council just adopted the new drought and conservation plan for water department 01:38:48.480 --> 01:38:52.400 i believe it was last month or might have been the month before but overall we want to reduce 01:38:52.400 --> 01:39:01.840 water consumption the last goal is to really look at how we as a city can plan and use the land we 01:39:01.840 --> 01:39:06.720 have available so it's more of a land use how are we using that land so we want to make sure people 01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:12.240 have access to necessities how they can minimize their energy needs and ensure connectivity across 01:39:12.240 --> 01:39:18.800 them so none of these are new except for maybe the wording on 3.1 which is enhance access to 01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:24.480 necessities or create walkable communities by doing that we're looking at how do you get the 01:39:24.480 --> 01:39:28.880 density to where people can walk and live how do we get to shared wall space how do we get all those 01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:34.800 things that are of value of having connections or course produce natural renewable natural gas from 01:39:34.800 --> 01:39:41.040 landfill that's just a direct day-to-day operation of land of the actual landfill above and beyond 01:39:41.040 --> 01:39:45.200 what you heard about with organics diversion are there how do we actually make sure that gas being 01:39:45.200 --> 01:39:51.360 produced by the natural process of the landfill can be used for rng and of course we're going to 01:39:51.360 --> 01:40:00.480 increase local renewable energy generation capacity across that is that solar that's anything that's 01:40:00.480 --> 01:40:06.320 renewable yes and solar wind and we'll get to that that one's not what i'll go over but i there in 01:40:06.320 --> 01:40:12.240 your backup on the measures that we'll be looking at any type of solar that's installed how many are 01:40:12.240 --> 01:40:17.440 installed what's the capacity how does that compare to our peak services wind generation how is that 01:40:17.440 --> 01:40:23.760 done we'd want to track measures such as how city facilities we don't have any solar or wind at a 01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:27.600 city facility at this point but how do we get that installed how do we make use of that as we can 01:40:27.600 --> 01:40:32.480 invest those dollars so that would be tied into that as well so that would go a little deeper dive 01:40:32.480 --> 01:40:37.200 to walk you through what's in the plan i'm going to go through two of the actions in a little more 01:40:37.200 --> 01:40:44.480 detail so decarbonizing the fleet was a tough discussion over hey is are evs even available 01:40:44.480 --> 01:40:50.320 can you charge on those things so this ties into the comprehensive plan on the local side we do 01:40:50.320 --> 01:40:56.320 have ev and e-biking centers under the greensense program on a federal level there's a tax credit 01:40:56.320 --> 01:41:01.600 both for individuals and businesses on the state level there's a grant program as well that helps 01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:08.960 support move that needle to make this happen the market assessment as of march of last year 01:41:08.960 --> 01:41:15.440 it's a little over a year ago there were 40 evs and 33 plug-in hybrids but by the end of this 01:41:15.440 --> 01:41:21.200 calendar year it's projected we'll have over 100 models available and gm is actually one of the 01:41:21.200 --> 01:41:27.360 first manufacturers to step out and say they want to cease production of gas-powered light duty 01:41:27.360 --> 01:41:33.680 vehicles by 2035 so that just helps put in perspective that this is where we're going so 01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:38.960 within the decarbonization of the fleet we want to we're proposing some of the measures the measures 01:41:38.960 --> 01:41:44.000 can be fluid can be added to the leading enhance but we think it's important to look at how many ev 01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:48.960 registrations we have also how many non are we actually making progress it's not good enough just 01:41:48.960 --> 01:41:54.720 to know how many evs how does that compare to the overall population then the next three focus in on 01:41:54.720 --> 01:41:58.640 the city we want to make sure we're very clear on what our light duty fleets do what our medium and 01:41:58.640 --> 01:42:04.640 heavy duty fleets do and our non-road or just extra electric equipment so when you see grounds 01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:10.720 maintenance around city hall how are we doing on that to decarbonize that and the last one is the 01:42:10.720 --> 01:42:16.640 availability of basically getting fuel are there enough ev charging facilities if we go to hydrogen 01:42:16.640 --> 01:42:21.520 it's hydrogen available how does all that come together so we want to go track that and show that 01:42:22.080 --> 01:42:27.520 the right hand side is part dimension lizard is three things we're currently doing we provide ev 01:42:27.520 --> 01:42:34.320 charging at five city facilities solid wasted pilot an ev trash truck recently we did sit back 01:42:34.320 --> 01:42:39.280 and wait for research we tried it ourselves and the fire department is actually looking to acquire 01:42:39.280 --> 01:42:46.320 and should be here probably in october our first ev fire truck so we're moving the moving the needle 01:42:47.120 --> 01:42:53.280 then we get that mouthful of walkable communities it can mean so many things so this slide the 01:42:53.280 --> 01:42:58.640 intent of this is it's really deeply committed a piece of our comprehensive plan it's what the 01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:03.360 public was involved with the comprehensive planning as well as the climate action plan and spoke to 01:43:03.360 --> 01:43:08.560 they wanted more density the right hand side some key quotes that came out one of the reasons i call 01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:14.800 it the compact scenario receiving of those votes the compact scenario called for roughly 80 multi 01:43:14.800 --> 01:43:21.440 unit construction going forward so that was a big diversion from what we were doing historically 01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:27.680 but all this ties together this is not an existent not exhaustive list there's other ones in the plan 01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:33.280 and in your backup measures how do you measure success to make a walkable community so it's 01:43:33.280 --> 01:43:37.520 kind of tough but one of the things we want to look at is the number of infill housing permits 01:43:37.520 --> 01:43:42.320 how are we making good use of already developed areas to revitalize those and make use of those 01:43:43.280 --> 01:43:48.080 the walkability could be a chance this is key there's things that come to council that are not 01:43:48.080 --> 01:43:54.320 allowed by right so anytime that's not allowed by right how do we make sure that we as an entity 01:43:54.320 --> 01:43:58.720 are driving people to encourage and add those walkability finishes so how are we doing so that'll 01:43:58.720 --> 01:44:04.560 be something we have to manually track right now but if we think it's important if we as staff are 01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:08.720 making a recommendation to plan your zoning permission or city council we want to make sure 01:44:08.720 --> 01:44:13.600 we're identifying have we actually asked for and addressed walkability within those things that are 01:44:13.600 --> 01:44:20.560 not allowed by right sorry i'm looking back and forth between the draft plan in the backup and 01:44:20.560 --> 01:44:26.080 this presentation and you have a couple items in this measure that's not included in that summary 01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:30.560 table at the very end is there concurrency between these slides and what we're looking at here in the 01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:36.880 backup usually yes this one what i you beat me to what i was about to say bottom three on this slide 01:44:36.880 --> 01:44:43.440 the bottom three are actually more tied to action 1.2 which is active active transportation 01:44:43.440 --> 01:44:47.920 infrastructure but they're also key to making a walkable community so i'm showing them here 01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:54.080 but we will be tracking those under 1.2 and the key thing on the bottom four here is the bottom four 01:44:54.080 --> 01:44:59.600 are all direct measures or metrics out of two other plans the 10 minute walk to park and the 01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:04.640 miles of trails are both the parts of trail master plan the miles of sidewalks and miles of bike lanes 01:45:04.640 --> 01:45:10.400 are both called for in the mobility plan so even though they're part of this plan they're also part 01:45:10.400 --> 01:45:20.480 of another plan that everyone's actively working on on our uh so like when you say it's our 01:45:20.480 --> 01:45:27.600 opportunities so some of these things aren't all right the economic development board like um or 01:45:28.400 --> 01:45:35.920 economic development for the city i'm sorry are these things that they're going to start thinking 01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:41.200 about before they bring or when they bring someone to our city are they going to start 01:45:41.200 --> 01:45:47.600 going through um these things in our plan and say okay can you do this this this and this will 01:45:47.600 --> 01:45:54.640 in turn allow us to give you an incentive like that is our goal to tie those to tie those together 01:45:55.840 --> 01:45:59.840 and so if i back up to this slide there's a lot of different things here that are called for in 01:45:59.840 --> 01:46:04.240 the content that we're working towards and all those things have to come together how do we 01:46:04.240 --> 01:46:08.960 maximize those new developments to ensure we have that connectivity i don't think it's on this one 01:46:08.960 --> 01:46:15.280 but there is one walk basically public gathering and connections i think i truncated on here but 01:46:15.280 --> 01:46:21.360 there is a requirement for new development to ensure we have public walkways to allow through 01:46:21.360 --> 01:46:25.840 new development so existing development can connect so we don't want to have those islands where we 01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:28.880 either don't have a sidewalk or don't have a means to move within at all 01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:36.480 so that was a deep dive into two of the actions i'm willing to go through all the actions 01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:42.960 i know it's been a long day for y'all already um just as a reminder the original the ssg plan 01:46:42.960 --> 01:46:51.040 had 15 actions broken over four sectors or major shifts in those 15 actions three of those 15 were 01:46:51.040 --> 01:46:57.440 on fleet because they had dcta the city of denton and not and everything else we combine those into 01:46:57.440 --> 01:47:02.640 one we also went in if there was actions where there was two parts to an action instead of two 01:47:02.640 --> 01:47:10.000 parts to an action may not be individual actions so this these actions align with what ssg had done 01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:16.000 their modeling on how they recommended that since we've slightly modified them i can't directly say 01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:23.440 100 the savings are the same the overall emission reduction if you recall they were saying we could 01:47:23.440 --> 01:47:30.160 reach 87 reduction by 2050 that should stay because we haven't moved on anything else 01:47:30.160 --> 01:47:36.320 we're going to be doing analysis on how any years and how we traffic each year to make sure we make 01:47:36.320 --> 01:47:42.800 the progress necessary again right now my recommendation would be to go voluntary before 01:47:42.800 --> 01:47:48.320 we have to go make this whereas ssg has some hard numbers they wanted us to do certain things 01:47:48.320 --> 01:47:55.040 starting in 2025 maybe 2028 we're looking at all those all those targets will still be in there 01:47:55.040 --> 01:47:58.800 and part of this says we're going to report back to council which should also include this body 01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:03.680 we're proposing in june of every year that'll give us sufficient time to wrap up anything if 01:48:03.680 --> 01:48:08.240 we're doing emission cycles different things to ensure the data is complete for the prior year 01:48:09.200 --> 01:48:13.360 so the next step we're scheduled to be in front of council at this point and we're scheduled to 01:48:13.360 --> 01:48:21.840 be on june 18th to walk through this and then of course we have to implement that which is the 01:48:21.840 --> 01:48:26.240 next biggest barrier is how do we actually get everything done so with that i'll stand for any 01:48:26.240 --> 01:48:34.960 questions okay go ahead i'm if you could clarify for me that the economic information in the 01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:43.040 original plan which showed the savings that's not going to be presented with this i can't directly 01:48:43.040 --> 01:48:47.920 tie at this point within the six month period we had to be working on this i can't stand with those 01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:54.320 same numbers because the proposed actions don't directly align but they are similar so that document 01:48:54.320 --> 01:48:59.040 that you're looking at from ssg so on the record council has it from their travel work session 01:48:59.040 --> 01:49:04.080 it'll be there we're referencing it it's in this plan to say we did present it we did talk through 01:49:04.080 --> 01:49:09.760 it and we as staff will be coming back with updated metrics on that when we update it a year 01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:14.800 good we just didn't have the time to realign everything in that window good yeah because 01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:22.880 that's so impressive it is yeah and the only other thing i thought was uh is it going to be 01:49:23.760 --> 01:49:35.680 just as public has been educated about recycling will there be any sort of program educational 01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:43.920 program regarding the climate action plan not only for the public you know bill stuffers and 01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:50.880 that sort of thing but also using entrance into the schools as well since we already have recycling 01:49:50.880 --> 01:49:56.320 programs there is introducing that here's here's the next step to make a better world sort of thing 01:49:56.320 --> 01:50:01.520 yes the goal here as i started out with i went back to the side one of the things we heard is 01:50:01.520 --> 01:50:07.440 outreach and awareness and education has to be a critical component to everything so all 16 actions 01:50:07.440 --> 01:50:14.000 will have that embedded within it to be successful do i have dedicated staff right now to do that not 01:50:14.000 --> 01:50:19.120 necessarily we'll work through that and figure out how to best align some of the actions directly 01:50:19.120 --> 01:50:24.240 relate to staff we already have whether it be on waste reduction or organics diversion some of those 01:50:24.240 --> 01:50:29.040 we have win-wins some mobility things we have win-wins there's other ones that we'll have to 01:50:29.040 --> 01:50:33.840 figure out how we're going to do all that but yes 100 our push is going to be on awareness we're 01:50:33.840 --> 01:50:38.160 going to work on everything we can on a website basis which limits us if it does reach certain 01:50:38.160 --> 01:50:42.320 individuals it's a good place to start and then go out and go through whether it be to the chamber 01:50:42.320 --> 01:50:47.680 of commerce whether it go through business entities all different outlets to reach the 01:50:47.680 --> 01:50:53.600 business community to reach all the residents to bridge the gap to hopefully also reach out and 01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:58.080 talk to people who are coming in our community because we do have a certain amount of transients 01:50:58.080 --> 01:51:02.160 we want to make sure they're aware of what all resources are working towards so they can be a 01:51:02.160 --> 01:51:07.280 part of it as well because they impact us on a daily basis and one of the one other question is 01:51:07.280 --> 01:51:13.520 there any way at all to establish a relationship with the county in regard to what we're doing 01:51:13.520 --> 01:51:18.800 here i know they don't have a dedicated sustainability man or lady but there is a 01:51:18.800 --> 01:51:24.080 person over there whose name just went right out of my head that i've had some discussions with 01:51:24.080 --> 01:51:31.520 about the county's take on doing something like this go on my class second or third flower it says 01:51:31.520 --> 01:51:36.800 it covers everything in the green so the county is part of that okay we will be working with them 01:51:36.800 --> 01:51:43.600 to make sure we can maximize the team together and make that happen terrific just like the dentin isd 01:51:43.600 --> 01:51:49.120 dcta we met with both dentin isd and dcta to discuss two things good regarding our fleets great 01:51:49.120 --> 01:51:59.120 yeah thank you for this i'm so happy that it's back on our agenda it's been a long time behind 01:51:59.120 --> 01:52:05.680 the scenes and we've been doing this as you said for a long time one suggestion and then maybe two 01:52:05.680 --> 01:52:11.040 questions i remember so for the outreach and education i remember when we were first talking 01:52:11.040 --> 01:52:18.160 about this we would deputize people as like you can do a climate action in a box presentation 01:52:18.160 --> 01:52:23.440 or something that was part of our outreach effort initially to make sure we could receive that 01:52:23.440 --> 01:52:28.400 input back from the public it was a meeting in a box i wonder if we could as you said we'd maybe 01:52:28.400 --> 01:52:33.600 have the staff to to do all the outreach and education maybe we could get volunteers to 01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:39.760 train them up then they can do a lot of that work i would say back to that is nothing's off the table 01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:43.840 we're going to look at every option we can to move this because we can't continue to wait you know 01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:49.840 that and we're trying to engage the whole community as the community not just anyone's sector okay good 01:52:49.840 --> 01:52:56.480 um so my question maybe two questions you talked on this a couple times but how do you because the 01:52:56.480 --> 01:53:04.320 big took takeaway i took from council too was the mandatory or voluntary question i guess my take on 01:53:04.320 --> 01:53:09.920 that was well like any plan this is a plan like you said the city has a lot of plans it'll come 01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:15.200 down to the implementation decisions on the ground with all the decisions we make as a city all the 01:53:15.200 --> 01:53:21.680 time um but can you just say a bit more about how you think of this plan along that line of the 01:53:21.680 --> 01:53:28.720 mandatory voluntary dimension everything right now we're going to try to do with encouragement 01:53:28.720 --> 01:53:37.120 on centers primarily however on energy efficiency as i pointed out going from 2009 to 2021 hud 01:53:37.120 --> 01:53:43.680 estimates that's a 40 efficiency deck what i would say to that is there's about 80 percent of the 01:53:43.680 --> 01:53:51.200 housing stock in denton that was built before 2010 so we have a huge opportunity to go in like you 01:53:51.200 --> 01:53:56.560 had mentioned earlier with the green sense incentive to help those buildings help those 01:53:56.560 --> 01:54:02.800 residences to improve their efficiency so one way we have mandatory there is that they do a 01:54:02.800 --> 01:54:08.960 certain amount of upgrade they have to meet the 2021 standard so we get that win that's more 01:54:08.960 --> 01:54:13.200 mandatory how do we incentivize how do we make sure our green sense program is getting money 01:54:13.200 --> 01:54:18.400 in the hands of the right people to make the right changes and hopefully an equitable manner 01:54:18.400 --> 01:54:22.000 so we'll be back in front of you coming up with some other change on the green sense program but 01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:27.520 i see it as instead of trying to say hey if you're going to build a dent you got to build this way 01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:31.840 we're aware of builders in dent that are building close to the net zero or the high efficiency 01:54:31.840 --> 01:54:36.960 standard they got small little pocket communities let's see how they sell how their price compares 01:54:36.960 --> 01:54:42.080 and how their utility consumption compares to others and that might start moving the target 01:54:42.080 --> 01:54:46.960 i think one of the changes is going to happen to all of us as a community is we may have to spend 01:54:46.960 --> 01:54:51.760 a little more on the house but we're going to be spending less on the utility bill so instead of 01:54:51.760 --> 01:54:58.080 spending the $200 to the electric bill we might be spending 100 and our house may be $40 more 01:54:58.080 --> 01:55:02.320 which means if you stay in the home long enough you'd have a better return on investment but 01:55:02.320 --> 01:55:10.000 since i can't predict that we would have changes there okay good thank you my other question was 01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:16.480 about the bear uh like the elephant the bear that's really nice the distraction squirrel 01:55:17.120 --> 01:55:24.800 a squirrel um it seems like the elephant within the bear to me is like new and maybe that's not 01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:32.560 true but new building i think about was a coal a hunter ranch and we did mention the limitations 01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:41.280 that the state legislature has put on on cities in terms of utilities um can you speak a little bit 01:55:41.280 --> 01:55:48.800 more to the challenge maybe that that presents any ideas about how to overcome that challenge 01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:54.080 when we're looking at perhaps building out natural gas infrastructure to all these builds and the 01:55:54.080 --> 01:56:01.440 kind of built-in emissions that come with that are there strategies it's always a tough one to 01:56:01.440 --> 01:56:05.920 address there are certain areas of dentin that are being built that don't currently have natural gas 01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:10.560 services some of those areas are being built full metric other ones are going to have a high enough 01:56:10.560 --> 01:56:14.560 density that the gas providers are looking to add that infrastructure to provide that to those 01:56:14.560 --> 01:56:20.800 customers what i would say is just because the infrastructure gets installed doesn't necessarily 01:56:20.800 --> 01:56:27.280 mean it'll be fully utilized either it'll kind of depend on the market as the building mechanics 01:56:27.280 --> 01:56:33.600 change over the years it may drive it towards a certain direction so as for example if electric 01:56:33.600 --> 01:56:39.920 heat pump becomes almost the price of an HVAC but is truly three or four hundred times more efficient 01:56:40.800 --> 01:56:45.200 someone may actually choose to go that direction regardless of the fuel source but 01:56:45.200 --> 01:56:49.200 most of those the higher efficiencies are on the electric there's still some natural gas back in 01:56:49.200 --> 01:56:57.360 there just like it's efficient so i can't i can't say we'll be moving away from any fuel source 01:56:57.360 --> 01:57:01.840 i think the biggest thing is we're going to gain a whole lot of efficiency gains 01:57:01.840 --> 01:57:05.760 in a lot of those new constructions i've been a part of various meetings and people being very 01:57:05.760 --> 01:57:12.160 creative to do efficient build there's a billion alignment some are even looking at which way 01:57:12.160 --> 01:57:17.520 streets should run to minimize waste west facing versus east and north and south different alignments 01:57:17.520 --> 01:57:23.120 how do we maximize areas where you might have less tree cover or you might know to be more rooftop 01:57:23.120 --> 01:57:28.080 solar whereas when you have the tree cover you want to use that to shield the building to then 01:57:28.080 --> 01:57:32.400 offset the energy bill they're looking at all those things they're also looking at how to enhance 01:57:32.400 --> 01:57:37.200 which is a part of this enhanced reduced space which is a key aspect of walkable because people 01:57:37.200 --> 01:57:44.560 like to walk but there's something pretty different okay thank you um might kind of take away from 01:57:44.560 --> 01:57:51.200 watching the council deliberations back in october this how do we package this as a win for 01:57:51.200 --> 01:57:55.600 residents how do you sell it so i just wondered like generally what do you see is your bigger 01:57:55.600 --> 01:58:04.400 taglines off of this modified draft it's kind of a revision from what ssg had given us biggest tag 01:58:04.400 --> 01:58:12.640 lines um well one of the ones would be is with the efficiency that we're going for if you're 01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:16.800 going to keep more money in your pocket your records because of not spending on a utility bill 01:58:16.800 --> 01:58:25.040 then if we can also build that into um reducing vehicle miles traveled we're actually moved up 01:58:25.040 --> 01:58:30.080 to a more serious attainment level for ground level loads on climate which has a negative impact 01:58:30.080 --> 01:58:35.680 on local health so we can actually show them by changing how they move within denton they're 01:58:35.680 --> 01:58:42.160 having a direct public health impact by reducing those emissions so i think if you try to tie it 01:58:42.160 --> 01:58:47.520 into a public health initiative over the healthy side of things as well as trying to get the 01:58:47.520 --> 01:58:53.120 understanding that the overall goal here is to minimize our consumption which has the ultimate 01:58:53.120 --> 01:58:59.280 benefit of reducing emissions it also reduces our costs overall day-to-day so i know obviously the 01:58:59.280 --> 01:59:03.280 bulk of what we're looking at is emissions reductions and the bulk of our emissions are 01:59:03.280 --> 01:59:09.920 transportation related i know a lot of that is fixed based on the infrastructure we already have 01:59:09.920 --> 01:59:17.280 and i know a lot of our transportation measures do look at how do we mitigate that down versus the 01:59:18.560 --> 01:59:24.320 more of the land use planning measures what overlap have we had or conversations or 01:59:24.320 --> 01:59:31.040 overlap that we're looking at with say planning and development and how going forward with the 01:59:31.040 --> 01:59:35.840 non-infield space that we have and our growth potential in these new areas around town 01:59:35.840 --> 01:59:43.360 building environments that fit with this vision of more connected communities more closer access 01:59:43.360 --> 01:59:49.040 to amenities less reliance on a single combustible automobile i think that directly ties into the 01:59:49.040 --> 01:59:52.720 dentin 2040 comp plan as well if you actually read through it and look at it and look at the key 01:59:52.720 --> 01:59:59.760 actions like there's 278 key actions 280 key actions if you get into that plan there's a lot of things 01:59:59.760 --> 02:00:06.240 that mainly focus back on building that compact that density making things accessible so it's a 02:00:06.240 --> 02:00:12.560 key route of how we're trying to build that plan within the comp 340 plan the goal of this plan is 02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:17.280 to draw awareness to by doing all those actions we're actually having a climate impact as well 02:00:17.280 --> 02:00:22.080 so it's a double win so the hopeful goal there is we already have that built into a lot of things 02:00:22.080 --> 02:00:28.160 are working on and how do we continue to maximize that and grow that i know that some of the other 02:00:28.160 --> 02:00:34.960 concerns were the mandatory behavioral changes that some people felt a little bit anxious about 02:00:34.960 --> 02:00:39.920 i liked the way that you packaged some of your measures up there where was it that a resident 02:00:39.920 --> 02:00:45.520 might have individual control over versus what does the city have operative control over i wonder if 02:00:45.520 --> 02:00:50.480 that would be helpful in that summary table there as well under those measures when we're looking at 02:00:50.480 --> 02:00:55.440 you know number of ev registrations that's going to be an individual's uptake right but versus our 02:00:55.440 --> 02:01:00.720 miles of trails built if it was labeled there that that's something that the city is capable of doing 02:01:00.720 --> 02:01:04.800 and that way it's very clearly distinguished about what is it that we're asking the residents you know 02:01:04.800 --> 02:01:10.720 what cost are we incentivize or inducing versus what is the city capable of changing whether it's 02:01:10.720 --> 02:01:15.920 already in a plan or whether this is a new proposal outside of say the comp plan or mobility 02:01:15.920 --> 02:01:24.000 and that might help visualize what exactly we're expecting okay so make sure i heard you clearly 02:01:24.000 --> 02:01:31.120 on the measures table you're thinking within that by each measure we propose kind of have an action 02:01:31.120 --> 02:01:38.720 i have of it directly impacts like a behavior change or the cost of a resident correct or the 02:01:38.720 --> 02:01:46.400 community okay how would that be difficult just normally yes kind of we did it on the slides i 02:01:46.400 --> 02:01:51.120 didn't do it there because the measures are kind of uh it was to see how those would work how they 02:01:51.120 --> 02:01:57.120 would grow this is just our preliminary they grow out a lot of the areas are actually a summary 02:01:57.120 --> 02:02:02.800 statement ahead of other plans there may be six metrics in track but for this to be able to model 02:02:02.800 --> 02:02:09.680 i simplify it instead of tracking six different things like bike lanes or bike paths so i care 02:02:09.680 --> 02:02:14.320 about the side path a dedicated road a side path you know all those things i wonder how many bike 02:02:14.320 --> 02:02:18.960 lanes yeah so i try to simplify it here because that's how i can plug it into the model 02:02:21.360 --> 02:02:27.120 i think i stopped coughing but yes we can we'll definitely take that into consideration thank you 02:02:27.120 --> 02:02:34.080 i have a common question if i can there's water can you some water you've got your cell phone 02:02:34.080 --> 02:02:43.840 okay so might have peppermints we started this in 2022 we yes it's right on top yes 02:02:43.840 --> 02:02:49.520 it's been a while so i'm really glad this has come to us although it's an altered version 02:02:50.880 --> 02:02:58.400 my question is and this may not be something that that you can answer but are you how 02:02:58.400 --> 02:03:10.320 how confident are you that council will approve this without any metrics or costs added to it 02:03:10.320 --> 02:03:17.840 like if that if that's a big concern for them say so like in the first plan we had you had all of 02:03:17.840 --> 02:03:23.440 that out there which showed the people the the residents like this is gonna put this much money 02:03:23.440 --> 02:03:30.960 back into our pockets or your pockets which is fantastic it was a large amount and that's not 02:03:30.960 --> 02:03:36.960 yet hasn't been trimmed it hasn't been added to this one yet 02:03:36.960 --> 02:03:42.640 so i'm just i'm just curious like do you think that's going to be 02:03:43.840 --> 02:03:49.200 that's going to be prevent them from going forward with this is it that big of a deal or 02:03:49.200 --> 02:03:56.960 i support the plan as we're proposing it yeah to be able to go forward i think a lot of the costs 02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:02.640 got stuck and i think there was about a split of different people having different 02:04:02.640 --> 02:04:07.520 challenges of how it was calculated or what it meant okay so i think by not having it now 02:04:07.520 --> 02:04:12.560 it outlines all the actions to make sure we're committing to it while we then build that back 02:04:12.560 --> 02:04:17.200 in so part of that's why i was trying to quote those HUD standards is that they're estimated 02:04:17.200 --> 02:04:22.240 that a household will save a thousand dollars a year in utilities that's quite a bit that's 02:04:22.240 --> 02:04:27.280 eighty dollars a month and then for multi-payments four hundred dollars per year that's still not 02:04:27.280 --> 02:04:33.360 you know tiny enough that's 330 to 40 dollars a month so we're just not going hard on the savings 02:04:33.360 --> 02:04:39.760 we tried to work through that some i don't think it'll distract for council i think there'll be at 02:04:39.760 --> 02:04:43.760 least two members that i'll ask about it pretty heavily yeah um i don't think it'll keep it from 02:04:43.760 --> 02:04:48.880 being moved forward i hope okay does it mean they will ask for it we have to put it in before we 02:04:48.880 --> 02:04:53.280 bring it forward yeah i just i don't have a good answer on how long that would take to break that 02:04:53.280 --> 02:05:00.640 back down and match these actions okay and then just um another thing so ssg like just bring me 02:05:00.640 --> 02:05:07.920 back like 2022 originally our conversations here on this body were about a carbon reduction goal 02:05:08.480 --> 02:05:16.640 right and that goal was or is net zero net zero by 2050 that's still in here and it was 46.3 percent 02:05:16.640 --> 02:05:23.520 of your from your baseline by 2030 which even out of their low carbons here we were going to 02:05:23.520 --> 02:05:28.080 miss quite a bit by 2030 because of the timing where we're starting we made up a lot of headway 02:05:28.080 --> 02:05:36.720 later in like between 2030 and 2050 okay so that um i'm so sorry so that is still still in here and 02:05:36.720 --> 02:05:45.840 the the purpose that this body addressed for the reason for the carbon action plan so i i think this 02:05:45.840 --> 02:05:54.800 is great i just wanted to tie this plan back to our original goal that's all i wanted to do here 02:05:54.800 --> 02:06:00.160 and it does clearly the one thing i think i said this in front of council too 02:06:00.160 --> 02:06:06.080 by keeping it simple here people don't get lost in what's in there i think it's right in front of 02:06:06.080 --> 02:06:11.440 them they can see that their actions that we all can take we all can accomplish and while they're 02:06:11.440 --> 02:06:15.920 big lifts they're still attainable so part of the feedback from council was how do we make it 02:06:15.920 --> 02:06:21.280 realistic not make it be perfection how do we make it realistic this presentation i feel makes it 02:06:21.280 --> 02:06:27.280 be realistic and attainable for the bulk of the community to understand and get behind it i think 02:06:27.280 --> 02:06:36.560 so too i think you did a great job you worked quite hard to do yeah okay all right um it says 02:06:36.560 --> 02:06:41.840 give staff direction regarding this plan so is everybody okay with this plan do we have any 02:06:41.840 --> 02:06:50.080 feedback for council or just i i'll just echo what you said i thought this was brilliant it shows how 02:06:50.080 --> 02:06:54.560 this is in alignment with so many of our other plans and our goals and our values as a city 02:06:55.440 --> 02:06:59.440 and it helps people see well if that's the case then it has all of these co-benefits that come 02:06:59.440 --> 02:07:07.840 along with our already agreed to value of getting to net zero by 2050 so i just think it's it's great 02:07:07.840 --> 02:07:15.120 i agree i mean you have a unanimous consent to move forward with our previous draft this was just a 02:07:15.120 --> 02:07:20.720 little bit more concise and i think the way that you build the bridges between our already adopted 02:07:20.720 --> 02:07:26.880 plans really really helps tie in why what we're doing is just a continuous and not something 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:31.920 it's like a radical pivot that just clearly aligns us all under an umbrella that we can 02:07:31.920 --> 02:07:37.120 get behind i think that's a really nice way to distinctly do it so i recommend approval 02:07:37.120 --> 02:07:44.560 i recommend approval good thank you so much the only thing i would say is it allows us to take 02:07:44.560 --> 02:07:49.280 all those other measures and put them into a carbon reduction yeah who wants the carbon reduction 02:07:49.280 --> 02:07:54.000 yeah so you're just kind of pulling things for we're making it put it in perspective for the 02:07:54.000 --> 02:08:01.760 person we're talking to yeah that's great thank you very much all right we have got item e 02:08:01.760 --> 02:08:09.040 receiver report and hold a discussion about greensense incentive program expenditures 02:08:13.040 --> 02:08:21.840 and um i did phone a friend text a friend jp says that i can trust the state of the h reduction 02:08:21.840 --> 02:08:29.680 number that's in our power bi it's just for the h back and insulation but it's a 360 02:08:29.680 --> 02:08:34.640 thousand kilowatt hour reduction so i'll have to get you a number of rebates that that 02:08:34.640 --> 02:08:40.000 includes so they're going to try to get to the cost curve i know jp's done that before i was 02:08:40.000 --> 02:08:48.080 trying to find out the best of hearsay so just a little update today on where we are for instance 02:08:48.080 --> 02:08:55.840 for this year um i can't move um so we'll talk a little bit about the revisions that were made for 02:08:55.840 --> 02:09:02.240 this year where we are on the budget what we have upcoming and then our next steps 02:09:05.440 --> 02:09:11.680 so just the background y'all heard this before we began in 2009 um prior to the 24 update that 02:09:11.680 --> 02:09:16.160 incentive levels have been in place since fiscal year 18 so a significant amount of time without 02:09:16.160 --> 02:09:22.640 addressing the inflation program is administered by our department and funding through dme and only 02:09:22.640 --> 02:09:29.280 available to dme customers energy focused on heating and cooling and then we have a million 02:09:29.280 --> 02:09:37.680 dollars for this year just a little bit of an update on how they were increased so the rebates 02:09:37.680 --> 02:09:46.240 for h5 were significantly increased the attic insulation as well we did the e-bike rebate 02:09:46.240 --> 02:09:49.120 this year and we increased the electric vehicle rebate as well 02:09:52.960 --> 02:09:59.760 that was done away there we go um so for h5 we spent um this was as a 02:09:59.760 --> 02:10:07.440 531 65 000 that was 366 so we have about nine percent remaining of what we've marked for that 02:10:07.440 --> 02:10:12.400 for this year i think i've seen that where we kind of set up that budget it may actually be in your 02:10:12.400 --> 02:10:19.760 backup but it's not legible um that very small chart um we spent the presentation as well okay 02:10:21.680 --> 02:10:27.840 um we have about 62 remaining on insulation and then smart furnace that we've got a little bit 02:10:27.840 --> 02:10:35.120 of money there's two on the ev and the e-bike we adjusted both of those rebates in december 02:10:35.120 --> 02:10:40.800 and pulled a little bit of money from multifamily to to increase those because the demand was so 02:10:40.800 --> 02:10:45.920 high for them both of those are on hold again now they've gone through the adjusted amount 02:10:46.560 --> 02:10:51.600 so with us having less than 30 percent left we were focusing strictly on energy efficiency 02:10:51.600 --> 02:10:59.760 the bank giveaway is funded however incense i don't want to let you all know we have some giveaway 02:10:59.760 --> 02:11:03.840 events coming up for those we'll be at senior we'll be at mlk 02:11:03.840 --> 02:11:09.840 those are kind of ad hoc we try to 02:11:16.320 --> 02:11:18.640 and then if you have any questions about where we are so far 02:11:18.640 --> 02:11:35.120 okay i have i'm sorry everybody i have a question at what point um can we 02:11:37.040 --> 02:11:47.680 talk about adding something to our uh our rebates so like we can do the next meeting 02:11:47.680 --> 02:11:53.120 we can bring back funding recommendations in the manual just want to give you kind of an update 02:11:53.120 --> 02:11:57.760 on where we are and as we start moving through the modifications to the manual for next year 02:11:57.760 --> 02:12:03.440 we have some lessons learned um it's a lot more money and a lot more to the process 02:12:04.480 --> 02:12:10.000 but it's working we've got some things worked out we're working with um our procurement and 02:12:10.000 --> 02:12:17.840 our accounts payable folks to try to streamline it a little bit more so those are new again at 02:12:17.840 --> 02:12:24.960 end of the school right yes october 1 to clarify that that's part of the recommended budget council 02:12:24.960 --> 02:12:31.040 has to take action to adopt yes but it is being recommended to be included so if we were to do 02:12:31.040 --> 02:12:36.080 an amendment to the items or categories included in the program you would want to see that adopted 02:12:36.080 --> 02:12:46.480 for fy 25 yes the manual will have to be adopted all right so those discussions will come with a 02:12:46.480 --> 02:12:52.720 different presentation not this this was just the update okay all right thank you can we get 02:12:52.720 --> 02:12:56.240 suggestions here shouldn't you put them on the matrix we'll just wait till the matrix so that 02:13:00.240 --> 02:13:03.440 which brings us everybody to the matrix 02:13:03.440 --> 02:13:11.760 so um ed do you want to go ahead and sit down for a minute yeah i'd like to uh 02:13:11.760 --> 02:13:18.240 second what akili just mentioned about expansion of the incentive program 02:13:18.240 --> 02:13:30.080 with a particular focus on battery storage residential uh also i was curious as 02:13:30.080 --> 02:13:36.080 if there are any green sense incentives for low income households i know in looking over the 02:13:36.080 --> 02:13:43.280 the schedule of what's available it seems that the person has to make an expenditure for whatever 02:13:43.280 --> 02:13:53.360 they want to do before they can get the incentive and um i would like to talk about some policies 02:13:53.360 --> 02:14:02.560 where the rebates might be a bit easier for folks uh low income housing uh and 02:14:02.560 --> 02:14:12.560 maybe uh if there could be an audit of prior greenhouse disbursements and analyzing how the 02:14:12.560 --> 02:14:19.200 funds have been utilized by low income households uh i guess you could use the appraisal district 02:14:19.760 --> 02:14:25.600 for assessing home values i don't know but at any rate i i would like to open a discussion of 02:14:25.600 --> 02:14:31.040 making our green sense incentives uh easier to 02:14:31.040 --> 02:14:38.720 or yeah easier to to obtain by folks who may not have the money put down out front 02:14:38.720 --> 02:14:42.240 anyone else 02:14:44.800 --> 02:14:51.600 you want to have anything to add i would like to put it on the matrix to discuss additional 02:14:51.600 --> 02:14:55.920 categories or items or maybe we just call it an adjustment to the greensense program 02:14:55.920 --> 02:15:01.520 specifically in consideration of battery and top solar incentives 02:15:01.520 --> 02:15:09.920 and then also and this is a little bit out there and maybe it builds into the greensense program 02:15:09.920 --> 02:15:15.760 possibly too um in the space that i work in which is mostly ecological restoration there's been a 02:15:15.760 --> 02:15:24.240 number of municipalities moving towards managing green spaces in the sense of carbon sequestration 02:15:24.240 --> 02:15:31.280 or looking at it as a community that is very public health sense frisco lewisville grand prairie 02:15:31.280 --> 02:15:38.720 corinth for example are all racing ahead and looking at enhancing green spaces with 02:15:39.520 --> 02:15:45.920 pollinator habitat call it carbon sequestration areas that it does kind of feel that it's kind 02:15:45.920 --> 02:15:51.280 of slipping a little bit behind some of our peers and this might be something that we look at a 02:15:51.280 --> 02:15:59.760 partnership parks for so call it a matrix title consideration of green space enhancements 02:16:06.080 --> 02:16:10.400 and i would like to add a presentation for this body to discuss 02:16:10.400 --> 02:16:19.120 speakers and like the process for if we want to have that on the agenda or to add a little spot 02:16:19.120 --> 02:16:23.600 on our agenda that says if you want to speak you have to pull out of the car just so it's consistent 02:16:23.600 --> 02:16:31.200 for everyone and we can decide as a body if we want to have them or not and in the process for that 02:16:35.280 --> 02:16:39.760 and i don't that that may not be up to us it may be up to somebody else but 02:16:39.760 --> 02:16:46.960 um we'll kind of go that route just so we can look into that okay bring it back okay thank you 02:16:46.960 --> 02:16:52.640 okay um was there anything on staff reports you wanted to go over kathryn or 02:16:52.640 --> 02:17:02.560 don't we just have the matrix okay okay all right um anybody have any concluding items or 02:17:02.560 --> 02:17:13.360 hope you feel better i was just so excited about stuff just kidding all right well i appreciate 02:17:13.360 --> 02:17:22.640 everybody's time today and we will close the meeting at 3 18 thank you so oh i have a question 02:17:22.640 --> 02:17:29.040 we can't can't do that we just close oh really 02:17:33.040 --> 02:17:33.120 you