1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,100 Okay. It is Monday, June 3rd, 2024 at 5.30 p.m. and I'm going to call this Board of Ethics 2 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:18,000 meeting to order. And do we have any presentations from the public? 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Not that I have seen anything, sir. 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Okay. So we will move on to items for consideration. So item 2A, BOE 24-21, 5 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:38,000 consider approval of minutes from March 4th, 2024. So do we hear a motion in that order? 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Move. 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:47,000 David Zeltner has moved to approve them. I'll sign. Andrea has seconded. So all in favor? 8 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000 Aye. 9 00:00:49,000 --> 00:01:00,000 So the minutes are approved. Item B, BOE 24-022, receive a report, hold a discussion, 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:07,000 and give staff direction regarding future meeting topics. So I'll give it to Madison. 11 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:13,000 I have prepared the agenda item I always prepare. Our next meeting is in August. 12 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:19,000 We have a break in July for our schedule because we usually need the beginning and 13 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,000 because of the fourth holiday. And then we have a break in September for a similar 14 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,000 holiday reason, I believe. And so then our meeting after that is in October. So right 15 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:35,000 now, apart from doing our annual ethics training in October, there's nothing on the 16 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:43,000 agenda. So I'd like to get direction on what to do next meeting. Some of the potential 17 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,000 agenda topics that y'all discussed previously are on the slide. 18 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:57,000 I did want to say tomorrow we finally get to go to the city council to take the two 19 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:05,000 things that we have spent many hours deliberating. So hopefully, I'm the one who 20 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,000 did not think that we should meet last month. So if you're unhappy about that, please 21 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,000 blame me. I just didn't feel that until we got to go to council that we really had 22 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:27,000 anything to talk about. So I want to talk, can we talk about what do we do if they 23 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:32,000 say no to these things that we've thought about? And what do we do if they say yes? 24 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,000 As long as we're talking about future agenda topics, I think we're good. 25 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Right, yeah. That's important. So if they pass these things, 26 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:53,000 then I really think that we should get busy and start looking at some of the other 27 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:00,000 little things that work, or maybe not little. If they don't, then I'd like to 28 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:11,000 hear what you think is next. What should we do next meeting topics? 29 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Can we put an item on the agenda to review their recommendations? 30 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Yes, good. I think that is exactly what I was going to say. 31 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:27,000 So if we have an agenda item, then we can discuss whatever. If they project some 32 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,000 or all of it, we can at least have it on the agenda so we can discuss it in a 33 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:37,000 meeting and then make a plan for if we need to modify our recommendations and 34 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:45,000 then resubmit or I don't know what we would do. But if it's not on the agenda, 35 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,000 then we as a group are not going to have an opportunity to discuss that and 36 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,000 address any concerns. Good point. 37 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:59,000 And I think whatever we get back, I mean at times there's also been guidance, 38 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,000 correct? It's like guidance in terms of like maybe tightening up language or 39 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,000 definitions and things like that. So I think we would be much better off using 40 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:17,000 the meeting next month to discuss what comes out of the city council meeting 41 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:23,000 and then plan our year starting October with those topics and those 42 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,000 considerations in mind. 43 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,000 If they do take both of our recommendations, maybe we could talk about 44 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:37,000 and we have this little grid of potential topics so maybe we could require 45 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,000 more of that. 46 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Yeah, I wouldn't want to use -- if they accept our recommendations, I don't 47 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,000 think it would make sense to have a whole meeting where we're just, you know, 48 00:04:52,000 --> 00:05:01,000 celebrating. 49 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Yeah, and then I have just a couple of things, minor issues with what will 50 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,000 actually I guess be presented tomorrow. You said the next meeting, you mean 51 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,000 August, not July, right? 52 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Yeah, August. 53 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Two very minor things, language-wise. 54 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Are we talking about to discuss in August or? 55 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,000 Yes. 56 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Okay. What is being presented tomorrow, I cannot change at this point. 57 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Because it's our meeting. 58 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:41,000 And I want to say, Madison, you did a really wonderful job of pinpointing the 59 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:48,000 topics because they're kind of complicated and I think you -- I so 60 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,000 appreciate the very good work you do. 61 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,000 So that letter I signed, I didn't write it. 62 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,000 I did read it before I signed it. 63 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,000 I completely agree with that and I've already sent Madison a message saying 64 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000 that these are two very minor points just with the language itself, not 65 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,000 changing anything. 66 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Under the definition of relative that you're going to be discussing or 67 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:16,000 presenting tomorrow, it says with regard to the latest individual state 68 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000 income. 69 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:24,000 I think we're off-posting because we're supposed to be talking about it. 70 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:31,000 So maybe a topic would be tweaking anything that just passed. 71 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Just clarifying what's going to be discussed tomorrow, that's all. 72 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,000 That's not what the posting is on the agenda. 73 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000 I think for our meeting today is what he's saying. 74 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:47,000 We don't have that on our agenda for today. 75 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,000 Well, just last-minute clarification there. 76 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 I mean, we're not changing anything. 77 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,000 There's two wording, some wording in here that I just wanted to mention. 78 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 If it changes anything, I don't know at this point. 79 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:04,000 But I was just concerned about that word plus the fact that -- let me just 80 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 throw this in for whatever it's worth. 81 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:15,000 Under the -- you have done a fine job here with this burden of proof issue. 82 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:25,000 The only thing that I was curious about was under Section 282, there is -- 83 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:34,000 it is still possible for a respondent -- hang on here for just two seconds. 84 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000 This is just clarifying what's going to be discussed tomorrow. 85 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,000 That's all. 86 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,000 I would like to hear this because I might ask a question. 87 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Well, this isn't what we're posting. 88 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Oh, okay. 89 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Well, then we can't talk about it. 90 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,000 If you want to talk to Madison after the meeting about it, 91 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,000 you can talk about it, but we're not posting for that in this meeting right now. 92 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,000 Well, that's fine then if you don't want to. 93 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Okay. 94 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,000 I'm just clarifying -- 95 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,000 I just don't want you to violate the open meeting fact. 96 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,000 In case there are questions coming from counsel tomorrow, 97 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:08,000 that's all I'm doing is just trying to address any confusion that might come up. 98 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Well, it wouldn't be a telma violation if he talked to you and I listened. 99 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Would that be -- 100 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,000 As long as it's not a quorum. 101 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,000 Right. 102 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,000 Okay. 103 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,000 You can -- 104 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Okay. 105 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,000 I suggest that you all just individually talk to Madison about whatever concerns you have 106 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,000 about what's going to come up tomorrow, just on your own, 107 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:34,000 but not in this meeting where we have quorum and we need to be following our posting. 108 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,000 Okay. 109 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,000 No, I'm 100% in favor. 110 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,000 There were just two things. 111 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,000 In case it came up tomorrow, I just wanted to clarify that -- 112 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:48,000 And you can do that with Madison after the meeting. 113 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,000 In this position. 114 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,000 Well, I'm guessing that if they have a question, then I'll hear it. 115 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Okay. 116 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,000 Here it is. 117 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,000 Okay. 118 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,000 Last one. 119 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,000 I promise. 120 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Under 282 -- 121 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Can I ask that we move forward with the agenda? 122 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,000 Let's move forward with the agenda. 123 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Well, it's only in case there's a question -- 124 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,000 Maybe I'll talk with you in Madison afterwards, as long as nobody else is present. 125 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,000 282A4, the complainant failed to testify at a hearing. 126 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,000 That's it. 127 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,000 That's just maybe something that would come up in discussion. 128 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,000 That possibly should have been included with the -- so that's it. 129 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,000 Okay. 130 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,000 We can talk about it. 131 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Offline. 132 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Yeah, I mean, it was not redlined as it probably should have been, 133 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,000 just to match what's over here on the -- that's it. 134 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,000 We're not changing anything, just clarifying in case you're asked tomorrow 135 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 or in case something comes up. 136 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Yes, that goes along with -- 137 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,000 Okay. 138 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,000 We're moving on. 139 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,000 All right. 140 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,000 All right. 141 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Thank you. 142 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:02,000 So I would suggest that -- I know we were going to talk about definition of complainant. 143 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Yeah, that was -- we had talked about talking about that next, basically. 144 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,000 Yeah. 145 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,000 That, to me, that's an easy one to put up. 146 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,000 I'm looking at the agenda information sheet. 147 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:39,000 So do you guys -- okay, I can pull it up, but that would be weird. 148 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:49,000 All right. 149 00:10:49,000 --> 00:11:01,000 There's a tentative reading topics. 150 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000 This one? 151 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Yeah. 152 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Yeah. 153 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:13,000 Okay. 154 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Or I guess the one before, I'm actually looking at the agenda information sheet. 155 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,000 All right, that's the second one. 156 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Okay, yeah. 157 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:33,000 So perhaps put definition of complainant on for the first thing in August. 158 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:41,000 And then what other -- 159 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Is the management report that you normally list on there with the discussion of the city council direction or comments, would that fall under that or is that a separate topic? 160 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:03,000 I think it depends a little on what they do. If they give direction, I'll probably bring that as a separate item. 161 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:10,000 If they just adopt everything, I'll probably just give a management report that says, you did it. 162 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:18,000 And then also probably include something about how the annual training will be changed to reflect the changes. 163 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:33,000 I have a topic that's not on this list. I would like to look at what the citizens voted on in -- was it 2015? 164 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:45,000 And I would like to look at whether or not our code fulfills those four things they said we should do. 165 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,000 So just so I understand, like the specific ballot language that was included? 166 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Right. 167 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000 We can get that. 168 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,000 I think that would be very important. 169 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Would you like that to be an item or would you like me to just provide that information? 170 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000 I would like it to be an item. 171 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,000 Okay. 172 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,000 What do you guys think about that? 173 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,000 So that's one that was first voted in? 174 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Yeah, there were four things that were voted on and I would like to look at all four of them. 175 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:20,000 And I would like to start considering how we can make sure the code covers those four things. 176 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,000 Okay, that makes sense. 177 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,000 To me, that's very important. 178 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,000 Yeah, I guess -- is there a direction to put that on August? 179 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Yes, please. Are you guys okay with that? 180 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:40,000 Because I feel like that would inform the future. 181 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,000 I would like to second that also because of those four, 182 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:50,000 the first one referred to having a conflict of interest code, which we've done. 183 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,000 But the issues are the appearance of impropriety. 184 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,000 That was to be in the introduction to this code. 185 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,000 And for some reason during its authorship, whatever, that word "appearance" got struck. 186 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:14,000 And so when the voters went to the polls in November of 2015, that was one of the four things that they expected to see. 187 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:23,000 The fourth was the disposition of an ethics complaint, sanctions only. 188 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:34,000 Or when the Charter Committee met in 2015, they discussed not only sanctions, but the possibility of fines being applied. 189 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:40,000 And so all of that got dropped when the City Council went to work actually constructing this code. 190 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,000 So there are four -- I've got it copied. 191 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Are those just the reasons why I want to put this on each other? 192 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,000 Well, yeah. Just to clarify. 193 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000 I understand. 194 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000 Well, for the others and for the record. So that's all. 195 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:05,000 So yeah, so we'll look at what the language the voters voted on that led to the ordinance that we have that was created in 2018. 196 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:11,000 So I think that should cover August very well. 197 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,000 And then I would think that would inform the future. 198 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Yeah, so we'll have an update on what occurs tomorrow. 199 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:29,000 We'll have a look at what the origins of the ethics ordinance, I guess, I'll call it that. 200 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:36,000 And then you also want to include definition of complaint, or no? 201 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:42,000 I guess wait, because I feel like that other thing that I put up is going to be a big item. 202 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,000 Yeah, and we can discuss if everyone is okay with that. 203 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:54,000 If we have time for that, or not, depending on what happens tomorrow, if that's fine with the rest of the board. 204 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Yes. 205 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,000 For definition. 206 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Leave it on, are you saying? 207 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000 We'll say tentatively, and then if you think we'll have time in August, we'll just decide that offline. 208 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 Because we can always put it for the next meeting. 209 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,000 Yeah, we can always postpone it. 210 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,000 Right. 211 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,000 So you're going to force me with us tomorrow? 212 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,000 It's going to go pretty well. 213 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Thank you, Dustin. 214 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,000 Dustin says it's going to be great. 215 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,000 I like that. 216 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Let's do this. 217 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000 Okay. 218 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000 Thank you for the direction. 219 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:37,000 The next meeting is scheduled for August 5th at 5.30 p.m., like, are you equal time? 220 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000 So, I guess that's the end of our meeting. 221 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,000 So, seeing no more comments, this meeting is adjourned at 5.47. 222 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,000 It is the shortest meeting we have ever had. 223 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Great job.