WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.720 So note that quorum is achieved. 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:06.560 Historic Landmark Commission 00:00:06.560 --> 00:00:10.600 is convening a regular meeting today, 00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:13.120 on Monday, May 13th, 2024. 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:16.760 Terms three, four, and five 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:18.960 at the Development Service Center. 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.000 That's us, okay. 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:26.000 So I'll call the meeting to order at 5.30 p.m. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.440 Our first order of business is the pledge. 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:31.680 The U.S. and Texas flag. 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:37.360 - I pledge allegiance to the flag 00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:39.640 of the United States of America 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:42.720 and to the Republic for which it stands, 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:46.280 one nation under God, indivisible, 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:49.020 with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:49.020 --> 00:00:54.560 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:59.560 Texas, one state under God, one indivisible. 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:00.920 All right, play ball. 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:10.360 All right, so with that done, 00:01:10.360 --> 00:01:13.440 we now have a new exciting segment 00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:16.600 called Presentations for Members of the Public. 00:01:16.600 --> 00:01:21.200 I believe we have a card here from James, 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:22.720 something happened with your last name, James? 00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:23.560 - That's how you do it. 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.440 - That's how you do it. 00:01:26.440 --> 00:01:27.360 Come on down. 00:01:29.880 --> 00:01:32.620 (paper rustling) 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:42.480 Mr. James, you will have three minutes. 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.680 I will start the timer as you say your name. 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:48.280 - I hope everyone can hear me. 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.540 My name is James Atellian, good evening to everyone. 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:56.160 On May 4th, I sent to all members 00:01:56.160 --> 00:01:58.620 of the Historic Landmark Commission 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:01.520 an email regarding three historic 00:02:01.520 --> 00:02:03.680 and artistically significant buildings 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:07.720 on the Texas Women's University Denton campus. 00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:10.600 Since May is historic preservation month, 00:02:10.600 --> 00:02:12.680 I sent this email to the commission members 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.100 to bring awareness to these three buildings. 00:02:16.100 --> 00:02:18.520 I know that the Historic Landmark Commission 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.640 does not have any power over what happens 00:02:21.640 --> 00:02:26.240 to any historic buildings on state property. 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:30.680 However, maybe the commission can make the TW administration 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:35.400 specifically Chancellor Dr. Kareem Faith 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.120 and the TW Board of Regents aware of your interest 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:41.400 in seeing these buildings 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:47.760 and seeing both the buildings and the artwork preserved. 00:02:47.760 --> 00:02:53.100 TW and the City of Denton have had a long history 00:02:53.100 --> 00:02:55.800 of working together in partnership on projects 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.800 that have been mutually beneficial to both entities. 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:04.280 By letting the TW administrators and Board of Regents 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:06.700 know of your interest in these buildings, 00:03:06.700 --> 00:03:08.960 that might open up a dialogue with the city 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.400 regarding the preservation of these buildings. 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.620 These buildings could be spotlighted by TW's 00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:18.280 marketing and communications group 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:20.720 to further the prestige of TW 00:03:20.720 --> 00:03:23.840 and to promote interest in TW. 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.280 Denton could showcase these structures 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.960 through various groups and media 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.400 that focus on art and historic buildings here in the city. 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:37.720 Some outreach to TW by the City of Denton 00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:40.840 should happen soon to have on record 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.800 if TW recognizes the significance of these buildings 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:47.040 and what their plans are for these buildings. 00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:51.240 And if nothing else, the Historic Landmark Commission 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.400 and the Special Collections and Archives Group 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.760 of the Denton Public Library should gather information 00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:02.200 and photos on these buildings before they're torn down. 00:04:02.200 --> 00:04:03.520 The information could be used 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.720 for future presentations and research. 00:04:06.720 --> 00:04:09.640 Thank you for your time this evening. 00:04:09.640 --> 00:04:15.600 - Thank you, Jane. 00:04:15.600 --> 00:04:18.580 - Yes, thank you for calling it to our attention. 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:25.080 - And thank you for being our inaugural commenter. 00:04:25.080 --> 00:04:33.520 All right, I'm just gonna take a quick check 00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:36.640 to see if anyone else has some public comments 00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:39.360 they wanna make or so they can fill out a card. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.680 Only once, only twice. 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.760 All right, let's move ahead to number three, 00:04:46.760 --> 00:04:48.720 items for consideration. 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:53.720 So item 3B is number HLC 24-014 on our agenda 00:04:53.720 --> 00:05:05.320 is to consider approval of the March 18th minutes. 00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:10.360 - And I would enter a motion to approve those minutes. 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:17.160 - Any further discussion? 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.680 And the meetings are accepted. 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:24.080 - Can you go vote? 00:05:24.080 --> 00:05:25.160 - Oh, that's right, we'll go vote. 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:26.080 All in favor? 00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:28.180 Any opposed? 00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:32.040 Universal consensus, it passes. 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.160 All right, we'll move on to the next item. 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.160 Item 3B, number HLC 24-0001 on our agenda 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:43.100 is to have a public meeting and determine 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:45.560 whether the presented expenses resulted 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:47.440 in permanent improvement and a restoration 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:50.040 of local historic landmark property. 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:54.640 Located at 903 West Oak Street and Oak Hickory District. 00:05:54.640 --> 00:05:57.560 The site is located on the south side of the Oak Street 00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:59.860 between Fulton and Mounts Avenue. 00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:04.360 - Thank you so much. 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.680 As stated, this is 903 West Oak Street 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:08.400 and we're looking at a historic tax exemption 00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:09.420 for the property. 00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:13.600 This is the Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.020 The owners are Dudley and Deanne Reed. 00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:19.080 Just to give you all some background, 00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:21.120 it is also a local historic landmark. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.120 It is known as the G.H. Bluett House 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.880 and it's built circa 1900. 00:06:25.880 --> 00:06:30.000 So tonight's request is for the historic landmark 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.720 tax exemption, looking at section 10-128, 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:36.400 which is that partial tax exemption 00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:38.080 for designated historic sites. 00:06:38.080 --> 00:06:42.280 In your backup, I provide a list of repairs and updates, 00:06:42.280 --> 00:06:44.460 but kind of to highlight all of them 00:06:44.460 --> 00:06:47.520 and not look specifically at the invoices themselves, 00:06:47.520 --> 00:06:51.040 we're looking at a total cost of a little over $30,000. 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:55.880 But looking further at that request, 00:06:55.880 --> 00:06:58.480 staff during their analysis did feel 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.200 that the new storage space and the trash haul 00:07:01.200 --> 00:07:03.960 that were mentioned as part of those invoices 00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:06.000 do not meet the qualifying improvements 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.800 and/or restoration to a historic property. 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.800 And this is due to the fact that they do not pertain 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.400 to general maintenance and/or restoration 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:15.800 of a historic property. 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.800 And so that's what I highlighted here in the real process. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.640 So that total expense that we're looking at now 00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:27.640 that does qualify is around $19,750 and 44 cents. 00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:34.200 So just to show you all some pictures 00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:35.520 of the work that was done, 00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:38.360 we're looking here at the sub pump that was installed, 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.720 the crown molding to match that historic 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:46.240 crown molding and then interior doorway 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.400 and architectural detailing to match original trim 00:07:50.400 --> 00:07:51.980 of doorways throughout the house, 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:54.560 as well as utilizing a historic door. 00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:02.960 So as stated, staff did look at section 10-128D, 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:05.560 and this is allowing for an additional 10 years 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:07.500 of that tax exemption. 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:12.500 If the applicant does demonstrate 00:08:12.500 --> 00:08:14.560 that they have qualifying expenses 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.160 of a minimum of 10,000 or more for improvements 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.920 and/or restoration to the property. 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:24.400 So staff is recommending a favorable determination 00:08:24.400 --> 00:08:26.640 that the expenses presented with the exception 00:08:26.640 --> 00:08:29.160 of the creation of the new storage space 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.920 and the trash haul resulted in a permanent improvement 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.020 and/or restoration of the landmark property 00:08:34.020 --> 00:08:35.520 at 903 West Oak Street. 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.480 Also, with the exception of the trash haul 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:40.240 and that new storage space, 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:43.160 the applicant does meet that minimum of $10,000. 00:08:43.160 --> 00:08:46.000 Any questions? 00:08:46.000 --> 00:09:00.120 - It is certainly a lovely home. 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.640 - It is. 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:07.320 - Okay. 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:14.440 So we have options to entertain motions 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.600 on make a favorable finding of improvement 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:22.600 and restorations to deny or continue the item 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:23.520 to a later date. 00:09:23.520 --> 00:09:26.480 Any wishes? 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.900 - I am in the approval of the request. 00:09:28.900 --> 00:09:35.120 - Any use for approval? 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:35.960 - I have a second. 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:42.280 - They meet the minimum even without the bathroom 00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:45.080 or the storage of the trash haul. 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:45.920 - Correct. 00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:46.740 - Well over. 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:47.580 - Yes. 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:54.240 - I'll second the motion. 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:55.080 - All right. 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:55.900 Ms. Craver. 00:09:55.900 --> 00:09:58.000 Seconds the motion. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.840 Let's have a vote. 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:00.460 Those in favor, raise your hand. 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:02.520 Any opposed? 00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:04.440 Motion passed. 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:06.280 Thank you, Tammy. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:07.320 - Thank you. 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:14.720 - All right, so now we'll move on to our work session. 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:19.640 Item 4A, number HLC 24-018 on our agenda 00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:21.520 is to receive a report and hold a discussion 00:10:21.520 --> 00:10:23.000 regarding the economic impact 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.100 of this historic preservation program. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:38.880 - Okay everyone, this is an exciting presentation tonight. 00:10:38.880 --> 00:10:44.920 I was gonna say, I feel like some of y'all 00:10:44.920 --> 00:10:47.160 have been hearing enough about it. 00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:48.360 We're finally here. 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.360 So my name is Cameron Norbertson, obviously. 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:53.900 - I'm Justin Stackhouse. 00:10:53.900 --> 00:10:55.680 - And so tonight we're talking about 00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:58.000 our Denton Historic Landmark Designation Incentives 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.840 and are we doing enough for residential property owners? 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.640 So to run through the table of contents, 00:11:04.640 --> 00:11:06.760 not gonna go into detail, 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:08.680 but we're kind of gonna give a background 00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:13.080 about our current historic landmark designation program, 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:14.880 what that process looks like. 00:11:14.880 --> 00:11:15.920 We're also going to be looking at 00:11:15.920 --> 00:11:18.280 some of the current challenges faced 00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:20.600 by our historic tax exemption program 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.400 and what that current tax exemption looks like. 00:11:23.400 --> 00:11:24.600 Then Justin's gonna jump in 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:27.640 and he's gonna go over the staff assessment 00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:30.400 that he conducted and then we're gonna look at 00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:32.820 next steps and discussions and questions. 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:34.960 Any questions? 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.520 So looking at our current state 00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:40.800 of the historic landmark designation process, 00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:42.960 we currently do have 66 structures 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.720 that are historic landmark designated. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.800 42 of these are residential properties 00:11:48.800 --> 00:11:50.600 and the remainder of those are made up 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.200 of government-owned vacant properties 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.880 as well as commercial properties. 00:11:55.880 --> 00:11:58.320 In addition to those 66 properties, 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:02.840 we do have over close to 3,000 surveyed properties 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:04.440 that are determined to be eligible 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.400 for historic landmark designation. 00:12:07.400 --> 00:12:11.960 Of those are around 2,300 residential properties. 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:16.520 So just to take you all 00:12:16.520 --> 00:12:19.040 through that historic landmark designation process 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:21.800 to kind of give you guys kind of that foundation 00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:24.160 as we go through this conversation. 00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:26.300 So the first step is filing the application 00:12:26.300 --> 00:12:27.820 with the historic preservation officer. 00:12:27.820 --> 00:12:28.980 So in this case, myself. 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:32.020 As part of that application process, 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:34.040 there are 13 approval criteria. 00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:36.180 So that's pretty significant in comparison 00:12:36.180 --> 00:12:38.400 to at the national level. 00:12:38.400 --> 00:12:41.760 As a part of that, you only have to have a minimum 00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:44.020 of one criteria that you have to meet. 00:12:44.020 --> 00:12:47.280 As you can see, there are a number of people 00:12:47.280 --> 00:12:49.040 who can file that. 00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:50.480 It can be the owner of the property, 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.380 owner's representative, the historic landmark commission, 00:12:53.380 --> 00:12:56.020 city council, myself, 00:12:56.020 --> 00:12:58.880 or even planning and zoning commission. 00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:01.200 The applications are prepared and they're submitted. 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.000 They do have to get the owner's signature 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:08.000 or owner's plural, unless city council themselves 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.520 or the historic landmark commission 00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:13.120 creates a resolution, my apologies. 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:20.400 So looking at that step four, as you all know, 00:13:20.400 --> 00:13:22.560 this is a zoning process. 00:13:22.560 --> 00:13:26.720 So it does require historic landmark commission review, 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.240 the planning and zoning commission review, 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.760 and then the city council review and decision. 00:13:31.760 --> 00:13:35.280 So it's that zoning action that's taking place here 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:37.880 during this public hearing process. 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:40.760 And city council decision is final 00:13:40.760 --> 00:13:43.360 and it cannot be appealed by the applicant. 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:47.140 So once you do it, it cannot be appealed. 00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:48.280 Essentially, if you want it removed, 00:13:48.280 --> 00:13:51.480 you've got to go through the exact same process. 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:56.360 So then exciting step five, once you are approved, 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.300 the historic landmark commission medallion, 00:13:59.300 --> 00:14:03.480 it can be prepared and they can put it on the property. 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.360 It does have to have owner approval. 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.560 You can't just go on the property and place it up there. 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:10.600 And then additionally, you would be added 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:12.560 to the discovered Denton landmarks map. 00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:17.000 Any questions before I move on? 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.520 Awesome. 00:14:18.520 --> 00:14:22.360 So kind of diving back into some of the current challenges 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.560 faced by our historic tax exemption program, 00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:28.040 which is tied to our historic landmark designation program, 00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:30.360 is right now what we're hearing 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.480 is that there are minimal incentive 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.560 and the cost to maintain a historic property 00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:36.040 is very expensive. 00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:38.360 So looking at the minimal incentives, 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:40.700 currently right now, our current tax exemption 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:42.780 is that 50% of the city property tax. 00:14:42.780 --> 00:14:46.600 Also, the application process. 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.680 You're looking at documents needed, 00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:51.800 the application to go through it. 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:53.840 So some people see that as a hurdle. 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.420 In addition, you're looking at future city oversight. 00:14:56.420 --> 00:14:58.160 Once you become designated, 00:14:58.160 --> 00:14:59.600 you're looking at having to do 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:01.720 servatificates of appropriateness in the future. 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:03.840 You're having to reapply every 10 years 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.540 for that historic tax exemption. 00:15:05.540 --> 00:15:08.160 So those are some of the quote unquote obstacles 00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:09.820 that people are seeing. 00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:13.060 In addition, cost to maintain a historic property. 00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:14.240 Home ownership in general, 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.440 especially in this economy, is expensive. 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:18.800 But when you add it being a historic property 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:21.840 that you're having to maintain to a certain degree, 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.520 that gets even that much more expensive 00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:26.120 because you're adding the craftsmanship involved. 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:27.800 And in addition, we're looking at the cost 00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:30.520 of historic preservation applications as well. 00:15:30.520 --> 00:15:32.520 So therefore, it's the lack 00:15:32.520 --> 00:15:35.260 of historic landmark designation interest. 00:15:35.260 --> 00:15:38.760 And then looking to our designated 00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:40.260 historic sites tax exemption. 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:44.320 That's the name of our tax exemption currently. 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.660 So that's any property that is designated 00:15:46.660 --> 00:15:47.960 at the local level. 00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:53.020 Our first landmark property was landmarked in 1980. 00:15:53.020 --> 00:15:57.000 We did not introduce a partial tax exemption until 1987. 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.640 And I've listed the ordinance number there. 00:15:58.640 --> 00:16:00.200 So if you all ever want to look at it, 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.720 I'm more than happy to provide that to you. 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.620 So that ordinance that was introduced in 1987, 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:08.380 it stated that 50% of the assessed value 00:16:08.380 --> 00:16:12.040 of the designated historic site is exempted. 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:16.640 That partial tax exemption remains the same to 2024. 00:16:16.640 --> 00:16:19.160 So we're almost to 40 years 00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:22.960 that we've had the exact same tax exemption. 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.560 But what we've added over time 00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:28.400 is we've added the requirement of spending a minimum 00:16:28.400 --> 00:16:31.680 of $10,000 on qualifying expenses 00:16:31.680 --> 00:16:34.320 for improvement and/or restoration to the property. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:41.080 - So here in the table is an example of a property 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.000 that is appraised at $300,000. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.520 In this table, we see that the historic designation 00:16:47.520 --> 00:16:51.120 will save the owner $841 in taxes 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.680 for the 2023 tax year. 00:16:53.680 --> 00:16:55.880 That's in comparison to if it was not designated 00:16:55.880 --> 00:17:00.480 a total cost of $1,682 for the city of Denton. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.000 I mean, included Denton County as well as the ISD rates 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.400 and what they would owe, just as a comparison. 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.280 And so jumping into staff assessment, 00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:12.880 feel free to jump in with any questions if you have any. 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.920 All right, so first, for an overview of the data set, 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.520 I started with the roughly $3,000, 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.280 3,000 structures that have been surveyed as eligible. 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:27.480 And I landed at 2,275 structures 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:31.040 after removing the properties that don't pay property taxes, 00:17:31.040 --> 00:17:34.080 such as governments, facilities, and churches. 00:17:34.080 --> 00:17:35.760 Commercial properties that are in the form 00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:38.160 of large commercial as well as attached downtown 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.800 and Price Street buildings, 00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:41.200 just because it's very different 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.840 from the homeowners we're looking at, 00:17:43.840 --> 00:17:46.800 as well as properties that have been significantly altered. 00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:48.040 So a lot of these are buildings 00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:50.160 that have been torn down, replaced, 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.720 or just lots and lands, 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.400 as well as there's a few that were, 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:56.440 the original building is still there, 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.720 but then there's been additional like apartments 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.160 as an example built on the same parcel 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.160 as were taken out for the calculations. 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.920 All right, and so for a view of where we are today, 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:08.760 at least in terms of property values, 00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:11.240 I calculated the average appraised values 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.000 for homes in Denton. 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.400 The green values on the left 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.680 are the appraised average appraised values 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.280 for each category in 2012. 00:18:20.600 --> 00:18:21.680 Whereas the columns on the right 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.840 are the average appraised values in 2023. 00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:29.200 First, we're looking at historically designated structures. 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.520 Those are the 42 homes that's taken out 00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:35.240 the government facilities, as mentioned before. 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:39.600 In the middle, we have the historically eligible structures. 00:18:39.600 --> 00:18:41.920 Those are the ones in the survey data 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.880 and the change that they've had over the time. 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.040 And then we looked at the city of Denton overall, 00:18:46.040 --> 00:18:48.760 which is the buildings that existed 00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:51.520 both in 2012 and 2023, 00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:53.040 and comparing the change of value 00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:54.520 of those buildings that existed. 00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:56.680 So it's a like for comparison, 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.560 not including new construction 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:00.320 that was appraised after 2012. 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.040 It's worth a note that 00:19:03.040 --> 00:19:05.360 with the historically designated structures, 00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:08.520 that does include the Oak Hickory Historic District, 00:19:08.520 --> 00:19:10.800 which typically has larger square footage homes 00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:13.000 and I can skew it with a small sample size. 00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:22.080 So next, we'll look at how the current program 00:19:22.080 --> 00:19:24.120 impacts property owners. 00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:26.680 Here in the table, we're looking at an annual savings 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.200 in 2023 in the middle column. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.800 While the column on the right shows the savings 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:34.680 over the previous 10 years. 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.000 In the first row, we're looking at the 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.640 currently designated structures. 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.200 In the last year, the average valued one 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:47.200 would save $1,300 roughly and $10,000 over the last 10 years. 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:50.760 Whereas when we look at the surveyed, 00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:53.480 eligible structures that are not currently designated, 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.400 those are seeing less with the lower average values 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:01.400 of $665 this year and shy of $5,000 over a 10 year period. 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:04.760 And these are adjusted for prior rates 00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:06.160 and values over that time. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.040 - And so I just wanted to jump in here 00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:12.520 as highlighted in bold, 00:20:12.520 --> 00:20:17.120 as part of just kind of providing that context again, 00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:18.520 historically designated properties 00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:22.560 have to spend that minimum of $10,000 every 10 years 00:20:22.560 --> 00:20:26.800 to reply for improvements and/or restoration. 00:20:26.800 --> 00:20:30.560 So we want to provide some real world examples. 00:20:30.560 --> 00:20:33.480 These properties are locally designated. 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.080 They are considered to be well maintained 00:20:36.080 --> 00:20:39.680 in terms of the historic landmark designation program. 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.760 So as you can see, some of those property owners 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:47.560 are saving around or just a little under $10,000 00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:50.120 every 10 years from this tax exemption. 00:20:50.120 --> 00:20:54.080 And it's really the West Oak area property 00:20:54.080 --> 00:20:57.320 that is really seeing those additional savings 00:20:57.320 --> 00:20:59.400 in addition to that 10,000 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.120 with that additional around $4,000. 00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:06.120 - And I know it's a larger sample site, 00:21:06.120 --> 00:21:10.640 but the eligible average in 10 years, 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.360 I mean, you're not even saving what you are investing 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.160 to maintain, right? 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.320 You're saving about half, okay. 00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:18.160 - Correct. 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.200 - Oh, sorry. 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.080 - And so just want to highlight some other city subsidies. 00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:27.840 So looking at our application 00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:30.080 for both a historic landmark designation 00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:32.640 as well as a certificate of appropriateness application, 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.040 which you would need moving forward after designation, 00:21:36.040 --> 00:21:38.800 it currently costs the applicant $101, 00:21:38.800 --> 00:21:42.280 which the city is around $8,200 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:44.280 in terms of the cost to the city. 00:21:44.280 --> 00:21:46.680 It does include the processing of the applications, 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.960 public hearings, after hour meetings, 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.520 public hearings, all of those things. 00:21:52.520 --> 00:21:55.320 In regards to the tax exemption application cost itself, 00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:58.720 it is free to the applicant, so that's a perk. 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.920 In terms of the historic preservation program as well, 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.080 that does have administrative costs 00:22:05.080 --> 00:22:07.400 of just managing the historic preservation program 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.040 as a whole, so it does include that kind of marketing, 00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:14.000 code amendments, website updates, all that kind of stuff. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.880 - All right, and then lastly, we'll look at 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.400 how the current program impacts 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.600 the city's property tax revenues from the city's perspective. 00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:26.320 Of the currently designated properties, 00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:30.160 the do-o property taxes, so taking our government ones, 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.160 the total revenue in 2023 was roughly $85,000. 00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:40.360 Looking ahead, just for calculations 00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:41.640 to show potential impact, 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.680 if more buildings were being designated, 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:48.760 if 10% of the eligible surveyed structures 00:22:48.760 --> 00:22:51.320 did become designated, then the total property tax revenue 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:55.840 loss annually will be $235,000 to the city, 00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:59.760 and that is inclusive of the current designation, 00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:02.320 so that is inclusive of the $85,000, 00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:06.040 and this is in 2023 values and taxes. 00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:09.680 Then looking at, again, if 20% had become designated, 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.320 so that would be 461 buildings, 00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:15.920 that would be a cost of $385,000 annually 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.280 in loss property tax revenue. 00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:20.000 And then we showed that in 2023, 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.520 the overall revenue for the city then was $104 million, 00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:28.480 so the current program is revenue loss 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:33.480 compared to if there was no designation of just 0.08%. 00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:36.800 And then we're looking at 10%, that would be 0.22% 00:23:36.800 --> 00:23:40.200 of the overall and 0.37 for 20% designation. 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:48.760 - So just looking ahead, we will, in the future, 00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:50.600 probably in June, we'll have a presentation 00:23:50.600 --> 00:23:52.400 about other city incentive programs, 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:55.720 so not specifically only looking at historic landmark 00:23:55.720 --> 00:24:00.720 designation processes or historic district programs 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.720 for incentivizing, we're also gonna just be looking 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.680 at historic properties in general, 50 years and older, 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.640 and seeing what other cities are doing. 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.080 And then also, we just wanna continue the conversation. 00:24:12.080 --> 00:24:15.640 This is part of the 2019 Historic Preservation Plan, 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.200 which states that we need to update 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.960 and look at our historic tax exemptions, 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.640 but also this is something that we're starting to hear 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.200 from property owners, especially owner-occupied 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.320 property owners, so we just wanna keep 00:24:27.320 --> 00:24:29.180 the open conversation going. 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.840 But before we conclude, I definitely would love for us 00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:36.920 to have a discussion, and I pose you all with a question 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:40.000 about is the city doing enough to incentivize 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.920 residential historic destinations, yes or no, or why? 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:44.680 That's something I think we need to kind of 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.080 have an open dialogue about. 00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:51.400 - Can I just ask a question first? 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:56.400 The differences between the sheet in our packet 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:57.720 and what's up there. 00:24:59.040 --> 00:25:03.000 - Yeah, those were just little adjustments, 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.240 meaning as we were just trying to clean up 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:10.240 more clarity on things, I guess I'd be curious 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.560 if there's anything specific that was different, 00:25:13.560 --> 00:25:16.000 and I should be able to explain any difference. 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.960 - No, it was just that the numbers were different. 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.600 - Yeah, so I think this is-- 00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:23.080 - We didn't have it broken down by percentages either. 00:25:23.080 --> 00:25:24.800 - Oh yeah, that was added as new. 00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:27.980 And that's something that came up as a suggestion 00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:32.980 for more clarity, and also originally these calculations 00:25:32.980 --> 00:25:37.880 did include the downtown area and Fry Street buildings 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:39.880 that had been taken out for calculations. 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:43.580 That was additional information that was removed for clarity, 00:25:43.580 --> 00:25:48.580 so recalculated based on only the residential focus. 00:25:48.580 --> 00:25:53.080 But let me know if there are any other specific questions 00:25:53.080 --> 00:25:54.320 I can dig into. 00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:57.280 - Thank you. 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:01.080 (papers rustling) 00:26:01.080 --> 00:26:05.640 - Cameron? - Yes? 00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.720 - The attachment that you emailed out earlier today 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.880 was that the latest version of the presentation 00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:11.740 for the commissioner, was it? 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:16.740 - No, the adjustments were made about an hour before 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.680 the meeting to provide a little bit further clarity 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:21.320 in terms of percentage change. 00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:24.600 So after this meeting, we're happy to set out 00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:27.340 the most recent presentation to you all. 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.900 - I think it's just one page we need. 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:34.400 - Just the one? (laughs) 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:38.080 - Well, I didn't see any going through the other one. 00:26:38.080 --> 00:26:40.520 - Yeah, don't let me anything else significantly. 00:26:40.520 --> 00:26:42.480 - Yeah, this was the only change that was made 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.000 was this person. - I actually did. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.680 - Oh, and then your column changed. 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.520 Okay, so the columns did change a little bit? 00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:48.680 - I'm going to lower it a little bit. 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:49.520 - Okay. 00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:57.060 - To answer your question of if we're doing enough 00:26:57.060 --> 00:27:01.000 to incentivize residential historic designations, 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:04.200 I would say no, it doesn't seem to. 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.560 I mean, if you look at it purely, 00:27:07.560 --> 00:27:09.880 and I know it's not purely financial, 00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:13.880 but due to the work from a homeowner 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.680 to go through the process, 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:20.320 it seems like something that they have to personally 00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:25.320 be passionate about to receive that designation 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.480 because the financial incentive, 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.400 especially when you look at that number 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.980 of eligible properties, 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:38.960 the average over 10-year savings 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:43.960 is half of what they are required to invest 00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:46.840 in the property to upkeep it. 00:27:46.840 --> 00:27:51.960 So I mean, just from purely financial, I would say no. 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:01.920 I would say also it seems perhaps it's not enough, 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:06.800 but I think we have to consider 00:28:06.800 --> 00:28:10.040 all of the property owners within the city 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:14.700 because when we give a tax break to anybody, 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:18.720 that means more property taxes 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.200 for those who are paying a full amount. 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.600 And I don't think we do enough 00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:28.000 to inform and educate the general public 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.320 about why that would be to their advantage 00:28:30.320 --> 00:28:32.600 if they're not one of those property owners. 00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:51.700 - Yeah, piggybacking a little off Ms. Lenny's comment, 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:54.800 one thing that occurs to me too 00:28:54.800 --> 00:28:57.800 when I see the district, the area, 00:28:57.800 --> 00:28:59.380 that it's these bigger houses, 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:03.160 it's these bigger, more pricey, right? 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.640 And so it also raises questions for me of like, 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:12.640 how can we incentivize maybe smaller ones, right? 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.360 And is there any way that we could 00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:20.120 think about percentages wise, like how much, 00:29:20.120 --> 00:29:24.400 'cause they may not spend $2,000 over 10 years, 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.720 but it may be for smaller houses 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.740 that are smaller projects, maybe trying to, 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:32.800 I guess I'm looking forward to your presentation 00:29:32.800 --> 00:29:35.300 of what other cities are doing in terms of that. 00:29:35.300 --> 00:29:41.360 Because yeah, the larger houses, it seems like that's, 00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:45.040 they're the ones that pick up on that and run with that. 00:29:45.040 --> 00:29:47.460 But as you're saying, in this economy, 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.520 how do we think about like the smaller little craft houses, 00:29:52.520 --> 00:29:55.360 the cottages, and also mix of different types 00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:57.800 of architecture styles and things like that? 00:29:57.800 --> 00:30:00.760 So I'm just thinking out loud 00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:03.760 of things that might go into the mix that. 00:30:03.760 --> 00:30:05.880 - And I think the average, 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:12.600 barely able to afford their house at all homeowner would say, 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:18.440 why should I pay what I'm supposed to pay on this amount 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:23.680 while that wealthy property owner with huge, beautiful home 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.320 gets a tax break to keep their house up 00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:31.560 just so we can have those properties in our city? 00:30:31.560 --> 00:30:33.440 What does that do for me? 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:38.280 - So you're essentially saying, 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.360 or I guess you're asking the question of, 00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:44.280 why should we have a tax break 00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:45.720 that is the same across the board? 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.480 Maybe it needs to change based off your property. 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.560 - Square footage. 00:30:49.560 --> 00:30:53.520 - I'm really saying it's gonna take a lot of education. 00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:56.920 - Communicating the value of what historic properties 00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:59.600 can do to the culture. 00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:02.520 Is that, is that correct? - Yes. 00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:03.340 - Yeah. 00:31:03.340 --> 00:31:08.080 Which, we kind of talked about it before, 00:31:08.080 --> 00:31:12.720 like how do you market and advocate for, right? 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.240 And educate people to understand the value 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.960 that this kind, that historic properties can bring. 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:26.040 - We have a price on small town trauma. 00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:28.240 - I mean, but I didn't know until we were doing 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:31.800 our walking tour that you mentioned that people go, 00:31:31.800 --> 00:31:35.220 people seek out areas, right? 00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:36.060 - Yeah, one of them. 00:31:36.060 --> 00:31:37.640 - People seek out areas. 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:42.200 And so, but I mean, I'm here and I didn't know that, 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.040 that people, right, that's part of, 00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:46.840 that's a draw, that's an incentive. 00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:49.600 It brings people to the community, you know, 00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:50.880 there's value to it. 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.960 - Yeah, money is put back in the local economy 00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:55.680 from people visiting, wanting to visit 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.600 the local historic districts, national register, 00:31:58.600 --> 00:32:00.120 record Texas historic landmarks, 00:32:00.120 --> 00:32:01.560 all the historic properties. 00:32:01.560 --> 00:32:03.400 Yeah. 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:10.200 Anything else? 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.480 - Anything that you were surprised by? 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.200 - $840 a year in savings is not a lot. 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.960 I mean, just to see like that actual. 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:23.800 - Yeah. 00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:25.440 - I mean, it's not nothing. 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.640 - Right. 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:30.280 But the fact that it's a locally landmark property 00:32:30.280 --> 00:32:32.400 and you're requiring them to spend 10,000 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.400 just to reapply and they're not hitting even that 10,000. 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:41.960 It strikes me that someone who's looking to buy 00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:46.200 one of those houses wouldn't buy it just for that. 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.760 I mean, that would have very little really to do with it 00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:54.280 because the housing itself and the general upkeep 00:32:54.280 --> 00:32:57.040 is so expensive. 00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:02.040 You have, you would pretty much be committed to doing that. 00:33:02.040 --> 00:33:06.740 So I wonder if they're, 00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:11.480 well, I think it takes a lot of education. 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.800 I also wonder if there's other kinds of things. 00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:19.240 I'll be interested to see what other cities are doing. 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:21.640 See if there's anything else that you could do 00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.360 to sweeten the appeal. 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:26.200 - Yeah. 00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:31.040 - Well, thank you for the report, very informative. 00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:36.440 - Well, it was a very nice report. 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.200 - Yeah, I really appreciate it, yes. 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:40.480 - Of course, we'll get you the updated presentation. 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.820 - Efforts are clear, you're successful. 00:33:42.820 --> 00:33:43.660 - Okay, perfect. 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:46.240 (all laughing) 00:33:46.240 --> 00:34:00.040 - Okay, so I guess that brings us to the next item 00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:05.120 on the work session, item 4B, number HLC 24-012 00:34:06.080 --> 00:34:11.080 on our agenda is to, I'm sorry to do that. 00:34:11.080 --> 00:34:14.200 It's for landmark mission quotes 00:34:14.200 --> 00:34:16.000 for local historic designation 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.260 of eligible historic properties. 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:24.060 - Did anyone bring a property? 00:34:24.060 --> 00:34:30.040 - I meant to, 'cause I was gonna look into, 00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:33.160 I was gonna look into that in a further place. 00:34:33.160 --> 00:34:34.800 - Okay. 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:35.640 Oh, Mr. Frosty. 00:34:35.640 --> 00:34:37.840 - Mr. Frosty, I'm gonna make a note to myself. 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:43.040 - I say we've got lots of eligible properties up there. 00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:44.880 Just waiting. 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.300 - Right? 00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:47.140 - You do. 00:34:47.140 --> 00:34:49.720 (all laughing) 00:34:49.720 --> 00:34:59.560 - All right, set it, no others bring forward, okay? 00:34:59.560 --> 00:35:05.280 And I guess moving on to item 4C, number HLC 24-011 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.400 on our agenda is to hold a discussion 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.280 regarding our Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:18.480 - Yes, so obviously today we covered the request 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.840 in regards to the economic impact 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.300 of preserving our historic properties. 00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:24.800 So that's gonna be taken off. 00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:30.000 We do have the discussion regarding benefits 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.320 for preserving historic properties 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:33.280 and how other cities are incentivizing owners 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:34.520 to designate their properties. 00:35:34.520 --> 00:35:37.180 So that's gonna be in June. 00:35:37.180 --> 00:35:39.600 I will, when I'm making that presentation 00:35:39.600 --> 00:35:42.000 regarding other cities, just so you all know, 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.560 I will be utilizing the numbers from ours 00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:46.440 and doing kind of like a comparison. 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:48.240 So you will be able to kind of see 00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:49.880 what we're dealing with locally 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:51.320 in comparison to other cities. 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.840 I think that will help give a fuller picture. 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.900 But we just wanted to do the intro tonight, obviously, 00:35:55.900 --> 00:35:57.920 just so you know what we're working with. 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.880 And then we do have a template agenda 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:04.920 to be utilized by HLC members at community meetings. 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.640 So I'm working on that. 00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:11.400 Hopefully gonna create a nicer looking flyer 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.000 besides me just typing in Times New Roman 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.240 and having one sheet that you all can kind of take with you 00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:19.840 when you're going out to public meetings 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:21.720 or neighborhood meetings, whatever it may be, 00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:24.460 or if you're just talking to individuals. 00:36:24.460 --> 00:36:26.960 And then we have the rest of our requests. 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.960 So, and also just wanted to mention, since this was our 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:37.060 first public, yes, member of the public speaking, 00:36:37.060 --> 00:36:43.240 you all are able to add those persons 00:36:43.240 --> 00:36:47.720 if their topic is of interest to you, to the matrix. 00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:50.080 It's just something that you all would have to take a vote, 00:36:50.080 --> 00:36:51.280 get a minimum of three votes, 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.700 add that to the matrix for it to move forward. 00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:56.560 So you all are welcome to do that tonight. 00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:59.440 If you don't have interest in pursuing it, that's fine too. 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.960 So I just wanted to mention that as well. 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.200 - I'd like to know what we might reasonably do 00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:08.120 to bring this to the attention. 00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:11.120 I was disappointed when I looked at the pictures 00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:14.840 that we received about the TWU properties 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:19.840 and they're looking so shabby and ugly, 00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:23.240 obviously not being taken care of. 00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:28.240 But again, I don't want to suggest that the commission 00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:31.120 should step out of its authority. 00:37:31.120 --> 00:37:35.920 So what can we logically do just to kind of call 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.080 to TWU's attention? 00:37:38.080 --> 00:37:41.320 - Can we invite speakers? 00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:44.600 Can we like invite, like Chancellor Clayton, 00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:48.360 President Clayton to speak to the group? 00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:51.120 - Or can we write her a little letter? 00:37:51.120 --> 00:37:52.400 - I would have to look at Scott 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:53.560 in terms of the letter. 00:37:53.560 --> 00:37:56.760 I'm not sure where that falls within our legal purview. 00:37:56.760 --> 00:38:00.440 - We can post for that discussion. 00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.440 I think right now we're just talking about 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.120 what's being added to the matrix. 00:38:09.120 --> 00:38:12.080 - So they can add things to the matrix. 00:38:12.080 --> 00:38:15.720 It's just, so they can vote to add it to the matrix 00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:17.880 and then we can actually bring it back for discussion. 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:18.880 I think that's what T knows. 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.880 - Is that how you're gonna post it for action for discussion? 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.160 - That is how we've done it for the last. 00:38:27.160 --> 00:38:34.040 - So if there's interest amongst the HLC 00:38:34.040 --> 00:38:37.240 and being able to discuss this further, 00:38:37.240 --> 00:38:39.520 then our recommendation would be is why don't you go ahead 00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:43.800 and add it to the matrix if the concurrence is there. 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.800 We can add to the matrix and then Cameron can bring this back 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.640 on our next agenda and we can have this conversation 00:38:49.640 --> 00:38:51.520 about how am I gonna go about it 00:38:51.520 --> 00:38:53.480 and then that also gives Cameron a little extra time 00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:55.040 to be able to prepare for that. 00:38:55.040 --> 00:38:57.680 - Yeah, who's like a discussion and make recommendation 00:38:57.680 --> 00:38:59.680 regarding that letter if you want? 00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:04.800 There's also, I think it is possible to invite someone 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.640 to come speak, whether they come or not, 00:39:06.640 --> 00:39:07.480 it's up to them. 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.320 - Sure. - It's a piano, but you can. 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.820 (all laughing) 00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:16.160 But again, I think whether that goes, 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.840 whether you want to put that on without knowing 00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:20.360 whether that person's actually going to-- 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:22.920 - Sure, right, right. - Up in here too. 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.000 - I think the best thing to do would be able to coordinate 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.440 with somebody on behalf of the TWAU 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:29.440 and find an appropriate person to come and address 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:31.000 if they were interested in addressing the issue. 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.600 But I think that's something we can do. 00:39:33.600 --> 00:39:35.400 We're gonna further bring it back from our person. 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:39.200 - We don't wanna seem heavy-handed, but it was just-- 00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:41.840 - Well, no, we're here inviting for tea and some cookies 00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:44.440 and we'll, you know, just, you know. 00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:45.280 - What they might do. 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.080 We'll talk about that in the chat room. 00:39:47.080 --> 00:39:47.920 We'll talk it over. 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:49.800 - We have a program that might help them 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.920 and we are not sure they know about it, yeah? 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:53.760 - Yes. 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:55.120 - So what's the direction? 00:39:55.120 --> 00:39:58.720 - I guess we're looking to see if there's a motion to add. 00:39:58.720 --> 00:39:59.560 - Yeah, so moved. 00:39:59.560 --> 00:40:02.640 I'm moved that we add this item to our matrix. 00:40:02.640 --> 00:40:03.480 - Do I have a second? 00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.320 - Second. 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.160 - All right, let's take a vote. 00:40:05.160 --> 00:40:06.880 All those in favor of adding, 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:11.240 exploring these three TWAU buildings 00:40:11.240 --> 00:40:13.120 that were brought forward by public comment 00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:15.240 and entering those into the matrix. 00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:16.600 Raise your hand if yes. 00:40:16.600 --> 00:40:18.560 Any opposed? 00:40:18.560 --> 00:40:22.040 It looks like it passed the name, so let's add it 00:40:22.040 --> 00:40:27.040 for future discussions and recommendations. 00:40:27.040 --> 00:40:30.020 (indistinct) 00:40:30.020 --> 00:40:33.480 - Sorry. 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:34.320 - Sorry, what? 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:35.800 - No, he just explained to me 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:37.840 how moving forward was important. 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:38.680 - Got it. 00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:40.520 - Yeah, sorry. - Okay. 00:40:40.520 --> 00:40:41.520 Right on. 00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:44.760 Okay, so let's see, having done that, 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.320 is there any other discussion for the project matrix? 00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:54.080 Besides thanking our gracious presenters 00:40:54.080 --> 00:40:56.640 for their work and sharing this information, 00:40:56.640 --> 00:40:57.840 very much appreciated. 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:06.120 All right, any other further discussion of the project matrix? 00:41:06.120 --> 00:41:10.020 Then I guess we'll move to our concluding items. 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:14.040 Does the board have any other business to discuss? 00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:19.160 - I have one that's been kind of announced. 00:41:19.160 --> 00:41:20.000 - Of course. 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:25.400 - So I just wanted to share this week's 00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:28.880 Dent Revealed Preservation Month events that are happening. 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:33.800 So tomorrow is the Cooper Creek Cemetery Tour at 6 p.m. 00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:35.960 Then we have our Clear Creek Walking Tour 00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:39.480 at 10 a.m. on Friday the 17th. 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.080 We also have our Imagine the Possibilities, 00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:44.620 which starts at 10 a.m. at Stoke. 00:41:44.620 --> 00:41:48.000 And that's also on Friday the 17th. 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.400 We also have Story Time at the Bloomfield Schoolhouse 00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.760 at 10 a.m. on the 17th. 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.600 And that's in Pilot Point. 00:41:56.600 --> 00:41:59.480 And then lastly, we have our Historic Bar Tour 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:03.040 on the Saturday the 18th, starting at 2 p.m. in downtown. 00:42:03.040 --> 00:42:04.920 And that's it. 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:10.040 Awesome. 00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:12.040 I'm looking forward to all these things. 00:42:12.040 --> 00:42:14.920 Excellent. 00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.520 Any other announcements, comments? 00:42:17.520 --> 00:42:19.000 Heck, I didn't even take poetry 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:24.000 or any other business to discuss. 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:29.300 All right, there's no other business then. 00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:34.300 Now adjourn the meeting at 6, 10 p.m. 00:42:34.300 --> 00:42:38.080 Thank you for your service. 00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:40.800 Thank you for the presentations, public comments. 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.160 I already got out of here, I appreciated that. 00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:44.960 And I want to recognize Council Member Becker. 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:45.780 Thanks for coming.