1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,720 So note that quorum is achieved. 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,560 Historic Landmark Commission 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:10,600 is convening a regular meeting today, 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,120 on Monday, May 13th, 2024. 5 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:16,760 Terms three, four, and five 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,960 at the Development Service Center. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,000 That's us, okay. 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,000 So I'll call the meeting to order at 5.30 p.m. 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,440 Our first order of business is the pledge. 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,680 The U.S. and Texas flag. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,360 - I pledge allegiance to the flag 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,640 of the United States of America 13 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,720 and to the Republic for which it stands, 14 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,280 one nation under God, indivisible, 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,020 with liberty and justice for all. 16 00:00:49,020 --> 00:00:54,560 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,560 Texas, one state under God, one indivisible. 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:00,920 All right, play ball. 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:10,360 All right, so with that done, 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,440 we now have a new exciting segment 21 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,600 called Presentations for Members of the Public. 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,200 I believe we have a card here from James, 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,720 something happened with your last name, James? 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,560 - That's how you do it. 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 - That's how you do it. 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,360 Come on down. 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,620 (paper rustling) 28 00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:42,480 Mr. James, you will have three minutes. 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,680 I will start the timer as you say your name. 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,280 - I hope everyone can hear me. 31 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,540 My name is James Atellian, good evening to everyone. 32 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:56,160 On May 4th, I sent to all members 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,620 of the Historic Landmark Commission 34 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:01,520 an email regarding three historic 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,680 and artistically significant buildings 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,720 on the Texas Women's University Denton campus. 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,600 Since May is historic preservation month, 38 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,680 I sent this email to the commission members 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,100 to bring awareness to these three buildings. 40 00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:18,520 I know that the Historic Landmark Commission 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,640 does not have any power over what happens 42 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:26,240 to any historic buildings on state property. 43 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,680 However, maybe the commission can make the TW administration 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,400 specifically Chancellor Dr. Kareem Faith 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,120 and the TW Board of Regents aware of your interest 46 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,400 in seeing these buildings 47 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,760 and seeing both the buildings and the artwork preserved. 48 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,100 TW and the City of Denton have had a long history 49 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:55,800 of working together in partnership on projects 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,800 that have been mutually beneficial to both entities. 51 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,280 By letting the TW administrators and Board of Regents 52 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,700 know of your interest in these buildings, 53 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:08,960 that might open up a dialogue with the city 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,400 regarding the preservation of these buildings. 55 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,620 These buildings could be spotlighted by TW's 56 00:03:15,620 --> 00:03:18,280 marketing and communications group 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,720 to further the prestige of TW 58 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,840 and to promote interest in TW. 59 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,280 Denton could showcase these structures 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,960 through various groups and media 61 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,400 that focus on art and historic buildings here in the city. 62 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Some outreach to TW by the City of Denton 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,840 should happen soon to have on record 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,800 if TW recognizes the significance of these buildings 65 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,040 and what their plans are for these buildings. 66 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,240 And if nothing else, the Historic Landmark Commission 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,400 and the Special Collections and Archives Group 68 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,760 of the Denton Public Library should gather information 69 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,200 and photos on these buildings before they're torn down. 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:03,520 The information could be used 71 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,720 for future presentations and research. 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Thank you for your time this evening. 73 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:15,600 - Thank you, Jane. 74 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,580 - Yes, thank you for calling it to our attention. 75 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,080 - And thank you for being our inaugural commenter. 76 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:33,520 All right, I'm just gonna take a quick check 77 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,640 to see if anyone else has some public comments 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,360 they wanna make or so they can fill out a card. 79 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,680 Only once, only twice. 80 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,760 All right, let's move ahead to number three, 81 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,720 items for consideration. 82 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,720 So item 3B is number HLC 24-014 on our agenda 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:05:05,320 is to consider approval of the March 18th minutes. 84 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,360 - And I would enter a motion to approve those minutes. 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:17,160 - Any further discussion? 86 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,680 And the meetings are accepted. 87 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,080 - Can you go vote? 88 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,160 - Oh, that's right, we'll go vote. 89 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,080 All in favor? 90 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,180 Any opposed? 91 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:32,040 Universal consensus, it passes. 92 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,160 All right, we'll move on to the next item. 93 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,160 Item 3B, number HLC 24-0001 on our agenda 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,100 is to have a public meeting and determine 95 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:45,560 whether the presented expenses resulted 96 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,440 in permanent improvement and a restoration 97 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,040 of local historic landmark property. 98 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,640 Located at 903 West Oak Street and Oak Hickory District. 99 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,560 The site is located on the south side of the Oak Street 100 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,860 between Fulton and Mounts Avenue. 101 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:04,360 - Thank you so much. 102 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,680 As stated, this is 903 West Oak Street 103 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,400 and we're looking at a historic tax exemption 104 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,420 for the property. 105 00:06:09,420 --> 00:06:13,600 This is the Oak Hickory Historic District. 106 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,020 The owners are Dudley and Deanne Reed. 107 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,080 Just to give you all some background, 108 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,120 it is also a local historic landmark. 109 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,120 It is known as the G.H. Bluett House 110 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,880 and it's built circa 1900. 111 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,000 So tonight's request is for the historic landmark 112 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,720 tax exemption, looking at section 10-128, 113 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,400 which is that partial tax exemption 114 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,080 for designated historic sites. 115 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,280 In your backup, I provide a list of repairs and updates, 116 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,460 but kind of to highlight all of them 117 00:06:44,460 --> 00:06:47,520 and not look specifically at the invoices themselves, 118 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,040 we're looking at a total cost of a little over $30,000. 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,880 But looking further at that request, 120 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,480 staff during their analysis did feel 121 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,200 that the new storage space and the trash haul 122 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,960 that were mentioned as part of those invoices 123 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,000 do not meet the qualifying improvements 124 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,800 and/or restoration to a historic property. 125 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,800 And this is due to the fact that they do not pertain 126 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,400 to general maintenance and/or restoration 127 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,800 of a historic property. 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 And so that's what I highlighted here in the real process. 129 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,640 So that total expense that we're looking at now 130 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,640 that does qualify is around $19,750 and 44 cents. 131 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:34,200 So just to show you all some pictures 132 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,520 of the work that was done, 133 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,360 we're looking here at the sub pump that was installed, 134 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,720 the crown molding to match that historic 135 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,240 crown molding and then interior doorway 136 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,400 and architectural detailing to match original trim 137 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,980 of doorways throughout the house, 138 00:07:51,980 --> 00:07:54,560 as well as utilizing a historic door. 139 00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:02,960 So as stated, staff did look at section 10-128D, 140 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,560 and this is allowing for an additional 10 years 141 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,500 of that tax exemption. 142 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:12,500 If the applicant does demonstrate 143 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:14,560 that they have qualifying expenses 144 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,160 of a minimum of 10,000 or more for improvements 145 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,920 and/or restoration to the property. 146 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,400 So staff is recommending a favorable determination 147 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,640 that the expenses presented with the exception 148 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,160 of the creation of the new storage space 149 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,920 and the trash haul resulted in a permanent improvement 150 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,020 and/or restoration of the landmark property 151 00:08:34,020 --> 00:08:35,520 at 903 West Oak Street. 152 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,480 Also, with the exception of the trash haul 153 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,240 and that new storage space, 154 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,160 the applicant does meet that minimum of $10,000. 155 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Any questions? 156 00:08:46,000 --> 00:09:00,120 - It is certainly a lovely home. 157 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,640 - It is. 158 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:07,320 - Okay. 159 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:14,440 So we have options to entertain motions 160 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,600 on make a favorable finding of improvement 161 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,600 and restorations to deny or continue the item 162 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,520 to a later date. 163 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,480 Any wishes? 164 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,900 - I am in the approval of the request. 165 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:35,120 - Any use for approval? 166 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,960 - I have a second. 167 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,280 - They meet the minimum even without the bathroom 168 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,080 or the storage of the trash haul. 169 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:45,920 - Correct. 170 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:46,740 - Well over. 171 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:47,580 - Yes. 172 00:09:47,580 --> 00:09:54,240 - I'll second the motion. 173 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,080 - All right. 174 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:55,900 Ms. Craver. 175 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:58,000 Seconds the motion. 176 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,840 Let's have a vote. 177 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,460 Those in favor, raise your hand. 178 00:10:00,460 --> 00:10:02,520 Any opposed? 179 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,440 Motion passed. 180 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,280 Thank you, Tammy. 181 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,320 - Thank you. 182 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:14,720 - All right, so now we'll move on to our work session. 183 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,640 Item 4A, number HLC 24-018 on our agenda 184 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,520 is to receive a report and hold a discussion 185 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,000 regarding the economic impact 186 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,100 of this historic preservation program. 187 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,880 - Okay everyone, this is an exciting presentation tonight. 188 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:44,920 I was gonna say, I feel like some of y'all 189 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,160 have been hearing enough about it. 190 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,360 We're finally here. 191 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,360 So my name is Cameron Norbertson, obviously. 192 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,900 - I'm Justin Stackhouse. 193 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:55,680 - And so tonight we're talking about 194 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,000 our Denton Historic Landmark Designation Incentives 195 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,840 and are we doing enough for residential property owners? 196 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,640 So to run through the table of contents, 197 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,760 not gonna go into detail, 198 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,680 but we're kind of gonna give a background 199 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:13,080 about our current historic landmark designation program, 200 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,880 what that process looks like. 201 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:15,920 We're also going to be looking at 202 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,280 some of the current challenges faced 203 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,600 by our historic tax exemption program 204 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,400 and what that current tax exemption looks like. 205 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,600 Then Justin's gonna jump in 206 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,640 and he's gonna go over the staff assessment 207 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,400 that he conducted and then we're gonna look at 208 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,820 next steps and discussions and questions. 209 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:34,960 Any questions? 210 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,520 So looking at our current state 211 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,800 of the historic landmark designation process, 212 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,960 we currently do have 66 structures 213 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,720 that are historic landmark designated. 214 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,800 42 of these are residential properties 215 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,600 and the remainder of those are made up 216 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,200 of government-owned vacant properties 217 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,880 as well as commercial properties. 218 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,320 In addition to those 66 properties, 219 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,840 we do have over close to 3,000 surveyed properties 220 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,440 that are determined to be eligible 221 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,400 for historic landmark designation. 222 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,960 Of those are around 2,300 residential properties. 223 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,520 So just to take you all 224 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,040 through that historic landmark designation process 225 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,800 to kind of give you guys kind of that foundation 226 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,160 as we go through this conversation. 227 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,300 So the first step is filing the application 228 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:27,820 with the historic preservation officer. 229 00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:28,980 So in this case, myself. 230 00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:32,020 As part of that application process, 231 00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:34,040 there are 13 approval criteria. 232 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,180 So that's pretty significant in comparison 233 00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:38,400 to at the national level. 234 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,760 As a part of that, you only have to have a minimum 235 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,020 of one criteria that you have to meet. 236 00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:47,280 As you can see, there are a number of people 237 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,040 who can file that. 238 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,480 It can be the owner of the property, 239 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,380 owner's representative, the historic landmark commission, 240 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:56,020 city council, myself, 241 00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:58,880 or even planning and zoning commission. 242 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,200 The applications are prepared and they're submitted. 243 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,000 They do have to get the owner's signature 244 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,000 or owner's plural, unless city council themselves 245 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,520 or the historic landmark commission 246 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,120 creates a resolution, my apologies. 247 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:20,400 So looking at that step four, as you all know, 248 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,560 this is a zoning process. 249 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,720 So it does require historic landmark commission review, 250 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,240 the planning and zoning commission review, 251 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,760 and then the city council review and decision. 252 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,280 So it's that zoning action that's taking place here 253 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,880 during this public hearing process. 254 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,760 And city council decision is final 255 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,360 and it cannot be appealed by the applicant. 256 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,140 So once you do it, it cannot be appealed. 257 00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:48,280 Essentially, if you want it removed, 258 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,480 you've got to go through the exact same process. 259 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,360 So then exciting step five, once you are approved, 260 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,300 the historic landmark commission medallion, 261 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:03,480 it can be prepared and they can put it on the property. 262 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,360 It does have to have owner approval. 263 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,560 You can't just go on the property and place it up there. 264 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,600 And then additionally, you would be added 265 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,560 to the discovered Denton landmarks map. 266 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,000 Any questions before I move on? 267 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,520 Awesome. 268 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,360 So kind of diving back into some of the current challenges 269 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,560 faced by our historic tax exemption program, 270 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,040 which is tied to our historic landmark designation program, 271 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,360 is right now what we're hearing 272 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,480 is that there are minimal incentive 273 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,560 and the cost to maintain a historic property 274 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,040 is very expensive. 275 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,360 So looking at the minimal incentives, 276 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,700 currently right now, our current tax exemption 277 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:42,780 is that 50% of the city property tax. 278 00:14:42,780 --> 00:14:46,600 Also, the application process. 279 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,680 You're looking at documents needed, 280 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,800 the application to go through it. 281 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,840 So some people see that as a hurdle. 282 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,420 In addition, you're looking at future city oversight. 283 00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:58,160 Once you become designated, 284 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,600 you're looking at having to do 285 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,720 servatificates of appropriateness in the future. 286 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,840 You're having to reapply every 10 years 287 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,540 for that historic tax exemption. 288 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:08,160 So those are some of the quote unquote obstacles 289 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,820 that people are seeing. 290 00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:13,060 In addition, cost to maintain a historic property. 291 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:14,240 Home ownership in general, 292 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,440 especially in this economy, is expensive. 293 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,800 But when you add it being a historic property 294 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,840 that you're having to maintain to a certain degree, 295 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,520 that gets even that much more expensive 296 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,120 because you're adding the craftsmanship involved. 297 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,800 And in addition, we're looking at the cost 298 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,520 of historic preservation applications as well. 299 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,520 So therefore, it's the lack 300 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,260 of historic landmark designation interest. 301 00:15:35,260 --> 00:15:38,760 And then looking to our designated 302 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,260 historic sites tax exemption. 303 00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:44,320 That's the name of our tax exemption currently. 304 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,660 So that's any property that is designated 305 00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:47,960 at the local level. 306 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,020 Our first landmark property was landmarked in 1980. 307 00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:57,000 We did not introduce a partial tax exemption until 1987. 308 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,640 And I've listed the ordinance number there. 309 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,200 So if you all ever want to look at it, 310 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,720 I'm more than happy to provide that to you. 311 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,620 So that ordinance that was introduced in 1987, 312 00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:08,380 it stated that 50% of the assessed value 313 00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:12,040 of the designated historic site is exempted. 314 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,640 That partial tax exemption remains the same to 2024. 315 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,160 So we're almost to 40 years 316 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,960 that we've had the exact same tax exemption. 317 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,560 But what we've added over time 318 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,400 is we've added the requirement of spending a minimum 319 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,680 of $10,000 on qualifying expenses 320 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,320 for improvement and/or restoration to the property. 321 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:41,080 - So here in the table is an example of a property 322 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,000 that is appraised at $300,000. 323 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,520 In this table, we see that the historic designation 324 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,120 will save the owner $841 in taxes 325 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,680 for the 2023 tax year. 326 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,880 That's in comparison to if it was not designated 327 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,480 a total cost of $1,682 for the city of Denton. 328 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,000 I mean, included Denton County as well as the ISD rates 329 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,400 and what they would owe, just as a comparison. 330 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,280 And so jumping into staff assessment, 331 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,880 feel free to jump in with any questions if you have any. 332 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,920 All right, so first, for an overview of the data set, 333 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,520 I started with the roughly $3,000, 334 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,280 3,000 structures that have been surveyed as eligible. 335 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,480 And I landed at 2,275 structures 336 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,040 after removing the properties that don't pay property taxes, 337 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,080 such as governments, facilities, and churches. 338 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,760 Commercial properties that are in the form 339 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,160 of large commercial as well as attached downtown 340 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,800 and Price Street buildings, 341 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,200 just because it's very different 342 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,840 from the homeowners we're looking at, 343 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,800 as well as properties that have been significantly altered. 344 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,040 So a lot of these are buildings 345 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,160 that have been torn down, replaced, 346 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,720 or just lots and lands, 347 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,400 as well as there's a few that were, 348 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440 the original building is still there, 349 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,720 but then there's been additional like apartments 350 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,160 as an example built on the same parcel 351 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,160 as were taken out for the calculations. 352 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,920 All right, and so for a view of where we are today, 353 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,760 at least in terms of property values, 354 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,240 I calculated the average appraised values 355 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,000 for homes in Denton. 356 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,400 The green values on the left 357 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,680 are the appraised average appraised values 358 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,280 for each category in 2012. 359 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:21,680 Whereas the columns on the right 360 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,840 are the average appraised values in 2023. 361 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,200 First, we're looking at historically designated structures. 362 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,520 Those are the 42 homes that's taken out 363 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,240 the government facilities, as mentioned before. 364 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,600 In the middle, we have the historically eligible structures. 365 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,920 Those are the ones in the survey data 366 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,880 and the change that they've had over the time. 367 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,040 And then we looked at the city of Denton overall, 368 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,760 which is the buildings that existed 369 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,520 both in 2012 and 2023, 370 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,040 and comparing the change of value 371 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,520 of those buildings that existed. 372 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,680 So it's a like for comparison, 373 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,560 not including new construction 374 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,320 that was appraised after 2012. 375 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,040 It's worth a note that 376 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,360 with the historically designated structures, 377 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:08,520 that does include the Oak Hickory Historic District, 378 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,800 which typically has larger square footage homes 379 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,000 and I can skew it with a small sample size. 380 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,080 So next, we'll look at how the current program 381 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,120 impacts property owners. 382 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,680 Here in the table, we're looking at an annual savings 383 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,200 in 2023 in the middle column. 384 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,800 While the column on the right shows the savings 385 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,680 over the previous 10 years. 386 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,000 In the first row, we're looking at the 387 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,640 currently designated structures. 388 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,200 In the last year, the average valued one 389 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:47,200 would save $1,300 roughly and $10,000 over the last 10 years. 390 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,760 Whereas when we look at the surveyed, 391 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,480 eligible structures that are not currently designated, 392 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,400 those are seeing less with the lower average values 393 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,400 of $665 this year and shy of $5,000 over a 10 year period. 394 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,760 And these are adjusted for prior rates 395 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,160 and values over that time. 396 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,040 - And so I just wanted to jump in here 397 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,520 as highlighted in bold, 398 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,120 as part of just kind of providing that context again, 399 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,520 historically designated properties 400 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,560 have to spend that minimum of $10,000 every 10 years 401 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,800 to reply for improvements and/or restoration. 402 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,560 So we want to provide some real world examples. 403 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,480 These properties are locally designated. 404 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,080 They are considered to be well maintained 405 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,680 in terms of the historic landmark designation program. 406 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,760 So as you can see, some of those property owners 407 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,560 are saving around or just a little under $10,000 408 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,120 every 10 years from this tax exemption. 409 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:54,080 And it's really the West Oak area property 410 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,320 that is really seeing those additional savings 411 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,400 in addition to that 10,000 412 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,120 with that additional around $4,000. 413 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,120 - And I know it's a larger sample site, 414 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:10,640 but the eligible average in 10 years, 415 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,360 I mean, you're not even saving what you are investing 416 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,160 to maintain, right? 417 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,320 You're saving about half, okay. 418 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,160 - Correct. 419 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,200 - Oh, sorry. 420 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,080 - And so just want to highlight some other city subsidies. 421 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,840 So looking at our application 422 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,080 for both a historic landmark designation 423 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,640 as well as a certificate of appropriateness application, 424 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,040 which you would need moving forward after designation, 425 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,800 it currently costs the applicant $101, 426 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,280 which the city is around $8,200 427 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,280 in terms of the cost to the city. 428 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,680 It does include the processing of the applications, 429 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,960 public hearings, after hour meetings, 430 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,520 public hearings, all of those things. 431 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320 In regards to the tax exemption application cost itself, 432 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,720 it is free to the applicant, so that's a perk. 433 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,920 In terms of the historic preservation program as well, 434 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,080 that does have administrative costs 435 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,400 of just managing the historic preservation program 436 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,040 as a whole, so it does include that kind of marketing, 437 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,000 code amendments, website updates, all that kind of stuff. 438 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,880 - All right, and then lastly, we'll look at 439 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,400 how the current program impacts 440 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,600 the city's property tax revenues from the city's perspective. 441 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,320 Of the currently designated properties, 442 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,160 the do-o property taxes, so taking our government ones, 443 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,160 the total revenue in 2023 was roughly $85,000. 444 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,360 Looking ahead, just for calculations 445 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:41,640 to show potential impact, 446 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,680 if more buildings were being designated, 447 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,760 if 10% of the eligible surveyed structures 448 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,320 did become designated, then the total property tax revenue 449 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,840 loss annually will be $235,000 to the city, 450 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,760 and that is inclusive of the current designation, 451 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,320 so that is inclusive of the $85,000, 452 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,040 and this is in 2023 values and taxes. 453 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Then looking at, again, if 20% had become designated, 454 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,320 so that would be 461 buildings, 455 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,920 that would be a cost of $385,000 annually 456 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,280 in loss property tax revenue. 457 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,000 And then we showed that in 2023, 458 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,520 the overall revenue for the city then was $104 million, 459 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,480 so the current program is revenue loss 460 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,480 compared to if there was no designation of just 0.08%. 461 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,800 And then we're looking at 10%, that would be 0.22% 462 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,200 of the overall and 0.37 for 20% designation. 463 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:48,760 - So just looking ahead, we will, in the future, 464 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,600 probably in June, we'll have a presentation 465 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,400 about other city incentive programs, 466 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,720 so not specifically only looking at historic landmark 467 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,720 designation processes or historic district programs 468 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,720 for incentivizing, we're also gonna just be looking 469 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,680 at historic properties in general, 50 years and older, 470 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,640 and seeing what other cities are doing. 471 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,080 And then also, we just wanna continue the conversation. 472 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,640 This is part of the 2019 Historic Preservation Plan, 473 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,200 which states that we need to update 474 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,960 and look at our historic tax exemptions, 475 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,640 but also this is something that we're starting to hear 476 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,200 from property owners, especially owner-occupied 477 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,320 property owners, so we just wanna keep 478 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,180 the open conversation going. 479 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,840 But before we conclude, I definitely would love for us 480 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,920 to have a discussion, and I pose you all with a question 481 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,000 about is the city doing enough to incentivize 482 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,920 residential historic destinations, yes or no, or why? 483 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,680 That's something I think we need to kind of 484 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,080 have an open dialogue about. 485 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,400 - Can I just ask a question first? 486 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,400 The differences between the sheet in our packet 487 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,720 and what's up there. 488 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,000 - Yeah, those were just little adjustments, 489 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,240 meaning as we were just trying to clean up 490 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:10,240 more clarity on things, I guess I'd be curious 491 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,560 if there's anything specific that was different, 492 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,000 and I should be able to explain any difference. 493 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,960 - No, it was just that the numbers were different. 494 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,600 - Yeah, so I think this is-- 495 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,080 - We didn't have it broken down by percentages either. 496 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,800 - Oh yeah, that was added as new. 497 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,980 And that's something that came up as a suggestion 498 00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:32,980 for more clarity, and also originally these calculations 499 00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:37,880 did include the downtown area and Fry Street buildings 500 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,880 that had been taken out for calculations. 501 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,580 That was additional information that was removed for clarity, 502 00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:48,580 so recalculated based on only the residential focus. 503 00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:53,080 But let me know if there are any other specific questions 504 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,320 I can dig into. 505 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,280 - Thank you. 506 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,080 (papers rustling) 507 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,640 - Cameron? - Yes? 508 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720 - The attachment that you emailed out earlier today 509 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,880 was that the latest version of the presentation 510 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,740 for the commissioner, was it? 511 00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:16,740 - No, the adjustments were made about an hour before 512 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:19,680 the meeting to provide a little bit further clarity 513 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,320 in terms of percentage change. 514 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,600 So after this meeting, we're happy to set out 515 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,340 the most recent presentation to you all. 516 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,900 - I think it's just one page we need. 517 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:34,400 - Just the one? (laughs) 518 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,080 - Well, I didn't see any going through the other one. 519 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,520 - Yeah, don't let me anything else significantly. 520 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,480 - Yeah, this was the only change that was made 521 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,000 was this person. - I actually did. 522 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,680 - Oh, and then your column changed. 523 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Okay, so the columns did change a little bit? 524 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:48,680 - I'm going to lower it a little bit. 525 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,520 - Okay. 526 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:57,060 - To answer your question of if we're doing enough 527 00:26:57,060 --> 00:27:01,000 to incentivize residential historic designations, 528 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,200 I would say no, it doesn't seem to. 529 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,560 I mean, if you look at it purely, 530 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,880 and I know it's not purely financial, 531 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,880 but due to the work from a homeowner 532 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,680 to go through the process, 533 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,320 it seems like something that they have to personally 534 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,320 be passionate about to receive that designation 535 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,480 because the financial incentive, 536 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,400 especially when you look at that number 537 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,980 of eligible properties, 538 00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:38,960 the average over 10-year savings 539 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,960 is half of what they are required to invest 540 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,840 in the property to upkeep it. 541 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,960 So I mean, just from purely financial, I would say no. 542 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,920 I would say also it seems perhaps it's not enough, 543 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,800 but I think we have to consider 544 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,040 all of the property owners within the city 545 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,700 because when we give a tax break to anybody, 546 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:18,720 that means more property taxes 547 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,200 for those who are paying a full amount. 548 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,600 And I don't think we do enough 549 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,000 to inform and educate the general public 550 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,320 about why that would be to their advantage 551 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,600 if they're not one of those property owners. 552 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:51,700 - Yeah, piggybacking a little off Ms. Lenny's comment, 553 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,800 one thing that occurs to me too 554 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,800 when I see the district, the area, 555 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,380 that it's these bigger houses, 556 00:28:59,380 --> 00:29:03,160 it's these bigger, more pricey, right? 557 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,640 And so it also raises questions for me of like, 558 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,640 how can we incentivize maybe smaller ones, right? 559 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,360 And is there any way that we could 560 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:20,120 think about percentages wise, like how much, 561 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,400 'cause they may not spend $2,000 over 10 years, 562 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,720 but it may be for smaller houses 563 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,740 that are smaller projects, maybe trying to, 564 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:32,800 I guess I'm looking forward to your presentation 565 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,300 of what other cities are doing in terms of that. 566 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:41,360 Because yeah, the larger houses, it seems like that's, 567 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,040 they're the ones that pick up on that and run with that. 568 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,460 But as you're saying, in this economy, 569 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,520 how do we think about like the smaller little craft houses, 570 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,360 the cottages, and also mix of different types 571 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,800 of architecture styles and things like that? 572 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,760 So I'm just thinking out loud 573 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,760 of things that might go into the mix that. 574 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,880 - And I think the average, 575 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:12,600 barely able to afford their house at all homeowner would say, 576 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,440 why should I pay what I'm supposed to pay on this amount 577 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,680 while that wealthy property owner with huge, beautiful home 578 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,320 gets a tax break to keep their house up 579 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,560 just so we can have those properties in our city? 580 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,440 What does that do for me? 581 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,280 - So you're essentially saying, 582 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,360 or I guess you're asking the question of, 583 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,280 why should we have a tax break 584 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,720 that is the same across the board? 585 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,480 Maybe it needs to change based off your property. 586 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,560 - Square footage. 587 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,520 - I'm really saying it's gonna take a lot of education. 588 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,920 - Communicating the value of what historic properties 589 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,600 can do to the culture. 590 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,520 Is that, is that correct? - Yes. 591 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,340 - Yeah. 592 00:31:03,340 --> 00:31:08,080 Which, we kind of talked about it before, 593 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,720 like how do you market and advocate for, right? 594 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,240 And educate people to understand the value 595 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,960 that this kind, that historic properties can bring. 596 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:26,040 - We have a price on small town trauma. 597 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,240 - I mean, but I didn't know until we were doing 598 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,800 our walking tour that you mentioned that people go, 599 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,220 people seek out areas, right? 600 00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:36,060 - Yeah, one of them. 601 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:37,640 - People seek out areas. 602 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,200 And so, but I mean, I'm here and I didn't know that, 603 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,040 that people, right, that's part of, 604 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,840 that's a draw, that's an incentive. 605 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,600 It brings people to the community, you know, 606 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,880 there's value to it. 607 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,960 - Yeah, money is put back in the local economy 608 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,680 from people visiting, wanting to visit 609 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,600 the local historic districts, national register, 610 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,120 record Texas historic landmarks, 611 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,560 all the historic properties. 612 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,400 Yeah. 613 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:10,200 Anything else? 614 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,480 - Anything that you were surprised by? 615 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,200 - $840 a year in savings is not a lot. 616 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960 I mean, just to see like that actual. 617 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,800 - Yeah. 618 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,440 - I mean, it's not nothing. 619 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,640 - Right. 620 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,280 But the fact that it's a locally landmark property 621 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,400 and you're requiring them to spend 10,000 622 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,400 just to reapply and they're not hitting even that 10,000. 623 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,960 It strikes me that someone who's looking to buy 624 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,200 one of those houses wouldn't buy it just for that. 625 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,760 I mean, that would have very little really to do with it 626 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,280 because the housing itself and the general upkeep 627 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,040 is so expensive. 628 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,040 You have, you would pretty much be committed to doing that. 629 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,740 So I wonder if they're, 630 00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:11,480 well, I think it takes a lot of education. 631 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,800 I also wonder if there's other kinds of things. 632 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,240 I'll be interested to see what other cities are doing. 633 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,640 See if there's anything else that you could do 634 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,360 to sweeten the appeal. 635 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,200 - Yeah. 636 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:31,040 - Well, thank you for the report, very informative. 637 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,440 - Well, it was a very nice report. 638 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,200 - Yeah, I really appreciate it, yes. 639 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,480 - Of course, we'll get you the updated presentation. 640 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,820 - Efforts are clear, you're successful. 641 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:43,660 - Okay, perfect. 642 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:46,240 (all laughing) 643 00:33:46,240 --> 00:34:00,040 - Okay, so I guess that brings us to the next item 644 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,120 on the work session, item 4B, number HLC 24-012 645 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,080 on our agenda is to, I'm sorry to do that. 646 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,200 It's for landmark mission quotes 647 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,000 for local historic designation 648 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,260 of eligible historic properties. 649 00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:24,060 - Did anyone bring a property? 650 00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:30,040 - I meant to, 'cause I was gonna look into, 651 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,160 I was gonna look into that in a further place. 652 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,800 - Okay. 653 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:35,640 Oh, Mr. Frosty. 654 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,840 - Mr. Frosty, I'm gonna make a note to myself. 655 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:43,040 - I say we've got lots of eligible properties up there. 656 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,880 Just waiting. 657 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,300 - Right? 658 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:47,140 - You do. 659 00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:49,720 (all laughing) 660 00:34:49,720 --> 00:34:59,560 - All right, set it, no others bring forward, okay? 661 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:05,280 And I guess moving on to item 4C, number HLC 24-011 662 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,400 on our agenda is to hold a discussion 663 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,280 regarding our Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 664 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:18,480 - Yes, so obviously today we covered the request 665 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,840 in regards to the economic impact 666 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,300 of preserving our historic properties. 667 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:24,800 So that's gonna be taken off. 668 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,000 We do have the discussion regarding benefits 669 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,320 for preserving historic properties 670 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,280 and how other cities are incentivizing owners 671 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,520 to designate their properties. 672 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,180 So that's gonna be in June. 673 00:35:37,180 --> 00:35:39,600 I will, when I'm making that presentation 674 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,000 regarding other cities, just so you all know, 675 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,560 I will be utilizing the numbers from ours 676 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,440 and doing kind of like a comparison. 677 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,240 So you will be able to kind of see 678 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:49,880 what we're dealing with locally 679 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,320 in comparison to other cities. 680 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,840 I think that will help give a fuller picture. 681 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,900 But we just wanted to do the intro tonight, obviously, 682 00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:57,920 just so you know what we're working with. 683 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,880 And then we do have a template agenda 684 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,920 to be utilized by HLC members at community meetings. 685 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,640 So I'm working on that. 686 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,400 Hopefully gonna create a nicer looking flyer 687 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,000 besides me just typing in Times New Roman 688 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,240 and having one sheet that you all can kind of take with you 689 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:19,840 when you're going out to public meetings 690 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,720 or neighborhood meetings, whatever it may be, 691 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:24,460 or if you're just talking to individuals. 692 00:36:24,460 --> 00:36:26,960 And then we have the rest of our requests. 693 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,960 So, and also just wanted to mention, since this was our 694 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,060 first public, yes, member of the public speaking, 695 00:36:37,060 --> 00:36:43,240 you all are able to add those persons 696 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:47,720 if their topic is of interest to you, to the matrix. 697 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,080 It's just something that you all would have to take a vote, 698 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,280 get a minimum of three votes, 699 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,700 add that to the matrix for it to move forward. 700 00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:56,560 So you all are welcome to do that tonight. 701 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,440 If you don't have interest in pursuing it, that's fine too. 702 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,960 So I just wanted to mention that as well. 703 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,200 - I'd like to know what we might reasonably do 704 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,120 to bring this to the attention. 705 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,120 I was disappointed when I looked at the pictures 706 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,840 that we received about the TWU properties 707 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,840 and they're looking so shabby and ugly, 708 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,240 obviously not being taken care of. 709 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:28,240 But again, I don't want to suggest that the commission 710 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,120 should step out of its authority. 711 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,920 So what can we logically do just to kind of call 712 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,080 to TWU's attention? 713 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,320 - Can we invite speakers? 714 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,600 Can we like invite, like Chancellor Clayton, 715 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,360 President Clayton to speak to the group? 716 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,120 - Or can we write her a little letter? 717 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,400 - I would have to look at Scott 718 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,560 in terms of the letter. 719 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,760 I'm not sure where that falls within our legal purview. 720 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,440 - We can post for that discussion. 721 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,440 I think right now we're just talking about 722 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,120 what's being added to the matrix. 723 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,080 - So they can add things to the matrix. 724 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,720 It's just, so they can vote to add it to the matrix 725 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:17,880 and then we can actually bring it back for discussion. 726 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:18,880 I think that's what T knows. 727 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,880 - Is that how you're gonna post it for action for discussion? 728 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,160 - That is how we've done it for the last. 729 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:34,040 - So if there's interest amongst the HLC 730 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,240 and being able to discuss this further, 731 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,520 then our recommendation would be is why don't you go ahead 732 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,800 and add it to the matrix if the concurrence is there. 733 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,800 We can add to the matrix and then Cameron can bring this back 734 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,640 on our next agenda and we can have this conversation 735 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,520 about how am I gonna go about it 736 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,480 and then that also gives Cameron a little extra time 737 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,040 to be able to prepare for that. 738 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,680 - Yeah, who's like a discussion and make recommendation 739 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,680 regarding that letter if you want? 740 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,800 There's also, I think it is possible to invite someone 741 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,640 to come speak, whether they come or not, 742 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:07,480 it's up to them. 743 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,320 - Sure. - It's a piano, but you can. 744 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,820 (all laughing) 745 00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:16,160 But again, I think whether that goes, 746 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,840 whether you want to put that on without knowing 747 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,360 whether that person's actually going to-- 748 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,920 - Sure, right, right. - Up in here too. 749 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,000 - I think the best thing to do would be able to coordinate 750 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,440 with somebody on behalf of the TWAU 751 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,440 and find an appropriate person to come and address 752 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,000 if they were interested in addressing the issue. 753 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,600 But I think that's something we can do. 754 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,400 We're gonna further bring it back from our person. 755 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,200 - We don't wanna seem heavy-handed, but it was just-- 756 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,840 - Well, no, we're here inviting for tea and some cookies 757 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,440 and we'll, you know, just, you know. 758 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,280 - What they might do. 759 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,080 We'll talk about that in the chat room. 760 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:47,920 We'll talk it over. 761 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,800 - We have a program that might help them 762 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,920 and we are not sure they know about it, yeah? 763 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:53,760 - Yes. 764 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,120 - So what's the direction? 765 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,720 - I guess we're looking to see if there's a motion to add. 766 00:39:58,720 --> 00:39:59,560 - Yeah, so moved. 767 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,640 I'm moved that we add this item to our matrix. 768 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,480 - Do I have a second? 769 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,320 - Second. 770 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,160 - All right, let's take a vote. 771 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,880 All those in favor of adding, 772 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,240 exploring these three TWAU buildings 773 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,120 that were brought forward by public comment 774 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,240 and entering those into the matrix. 775 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,600 Raise your hand if yes. 776 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,560 Any opposed? 777 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,040 It looks like it passed the name, so let's add it 778 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,040 for future discussions and recommendations. 779 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,020 (indistinct) 780 00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:33,480 - Sorry. 781 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,320 - Sorry, what? 782 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,800 - No, he just explained to me 783 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,840 how moving forward was important. 784 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,680 - Got it. 785 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,520 - Yeah, sorry. - Okay. 786 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,520 Right on. 787 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,760 Okay, so let's see, having done that, 788 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,320 is there any other discussion for the project matrix? 789 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:54,080 Besides thanking our gracious presenters 790 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,640 for their work and sharing this information, 791 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:57,840 very much appreciated. 792 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:06,120 All right, any other further discussion of the project matrix? 793 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,020 Then I guess we'll move to our concluding items. 794 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,040 Does the board have any other business to discuss? 795 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:19,160 - I have one that's been kind of announced. 796 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:20,000 - Of course. 797 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,400 - So I just wanted to share this week's 798 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,880 Dent Revealed Preservation Month events that are happening. 799 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,800 So tomorrow is the Cooper Creek Cemetery Tour at 6 p.m. 800 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,960 Then we have our Clear Creek Walking Tour 801 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,480 at 10 a.m. on Friday the 17th. 802 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,080 We also have our Imagine the Possibilities, 803 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,620 which starts at 10 a.m. at Stoke. 804 00:41:44,620 --> 00:41:48,000 And that's also on Friday the 17th. 805 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,400 We also have Story Time at the Bloomfield Schoolhouse 806 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,760 at 10 a.m. on the 17th. 807 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,600 And that's in Pilot Point. 808 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,480 And then lastly, we have our Historic Bar Tour 809 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,040 on the Saturday the 18th, starting at 2 p.m. in downtown. 810 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,920 And that's it. 811 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,040 Awesome. 812 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,040 I'm looking forward to all these things. 813 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,920 Excellent. 814 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,520 Any other announcements, comments? 815 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,000 Heck, I didn't even take poetry 816 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:24,000 or any other business to discuss. 817 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,300 All right, there's no other business then. 818 00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:34,300 Now adjourn the meeting at 6, 10 p.m. 819 00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:38,080 Thank you for your service. 820 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,800 Thank you for the presentations, public comments. 821 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,160 I already got out of here, I appreciated that. 822 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,960 And I want to recognize Council Member Becker. 823 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,780 Thanks for coming.