WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.180 Good evening, welcome to the July 11th Special Citizens Bond Advisory Committee meeting. 00:00:13.180 --> 00:00:16.400 We are going to have a full agenda tonight. 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:23.360 The first item on our agenda is to consider approval of the meeting minutes for June 20th, 00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:28.980 2019, June 27th, the 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:29.980 Pardon me. 00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:40.800 Before we go into that though, we'll first take citizen comments that anyone would like 00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:41.800 to make. 00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:43.800 Is there any cards? 00:00:43.800 --> 00:01:03.800 Is anyone wishing to speak, build out a card? 00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:19.520 Okay. 00:01:19.520 --> 00:01:25.600 What? 00:01:25.600 --> 00:01:29.720 Yes. 00:01:29.720 --> 00:01:33.000 Wait a minute here. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.760 Just while this gentleman is preparing a card, a reminder that each speaker will be given 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:42.920 a total of three minutes to address items that he or she wishes to discuss that's listed 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.080 on the agenda. 00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:52.600 The committee members are allowed to ask questions of the speaker pertaining to items that we're 00:01:52.600 --> 00:02:08.520 considering for this Bond Program. 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:09.520 Do you have a question, sir? 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:10.520 I'm sorry. 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:15.440 Do you want questions or comments prior to your time over here? 00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:16.880 Yes. 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:22.320 The first item on the agenda is citizen comments, so this would be the time for citizen comments. 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:37.960 Does everyone that intends to speak have a card that they're filling out? 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:58.840 I'm sorry, may I ask a question while we're waiting for the citizen comments? 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:07.720 This is only for items that are listed on today's agenda items, is that correct? 00:03:07.720 --> 00:03:12.520 The items for today are pretty broad in the sense that we're talking about all projects 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:19.520 in the bond and the timeline for the bond and prioritization, so that really encompasses, 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.520 as long as the comments are about the bond program or any consideration to the bond program 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:24.520 that would apply to the agenda. 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:41.080 Okay, to the bond program, as given to the committee, the ramifications and restrictions 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:42.080 for the two options that we were given? 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:43.080 We really get into each project and we even have considerations for what could be involved 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.800 in the bond program, so if the comments in any way relate to the bond program, they would 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.800 be appropriate. 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:55.520 Okay, so just anything regarding any kind of, we'd like this to be on the bond? 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:56.520 Sure. 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.360 And we're going to do this for how long? 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.080 As many people as have comments. 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:09.280 Okay, as many people as have comments, three minutes each, right? 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:10.280 Correct. 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:11.280 Yep. 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:12.280 All right. 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:13.280 Thank you. 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:14.800 Okay, I have two cards. 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:19.800 The first individual is Mr. Richard Schanauer. 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:26.360 Schanhaus, my apologies. 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:35.920 And sir, would you please come up to the podium and speak into the microphone? 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:44.760 Well, I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle. 00:04:44.760 --> 00:05:00.800 And I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:12.520 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:19.880 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 00:05:19.880 --> 00:05:28.920 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:39.840 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:52.360 a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and 00:05:52.360 --> 00:06:08.960 I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, 00:06:08.960 --> 00:06:20.720 from you guys. All this is we've seen from websites and whether it's text dot or county 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:27.240 or city planning that has gone on the nice little six lane divided highway with like 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:32.960 office buildings on each side but it's it's not as you know a rule out there. So that's 00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:43.440 my concern and I'm here tonight to hear is this I understand there's a bond bond election 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:48.960 in November that has to go forward before any of this but where's all the money coming 00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:53.440 from there's a lot of different entities with the North Texas government and the county 00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:58.680 and the city and text dot and it doesn't seem like all that money is actually put been put 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:14.660 together yet so we would just like some clear clarification on what we're facing. West of 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:29.200 1830 yes ma'am. West of 1830 between 1830 and 377 it's because brush creek dead ends 00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:35.000 into 377. I'm on the south side and we're actually closer to the street on the south 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.240 side than the properties on the north side are but it seems like from the information 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:44.720 we found that they're going to they're going to take you know from the middle of the road 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:53.160 about 70 feet each way. From the website we've been determined that that kind of footage 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:59.640 would be required for maybe even more for a road like that for a highway like that. 00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:12.640 So yes but there's no road there it goes you have to cut through ranch farmland ranch land 00:08:12.640 --> 00:08:23.480 some time time we got three minutes up and Diana if you could speak into a microphone 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:35.520 so we can hear you thank you. Is there a map that we can be looking at if people are going 00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:58.120 to be interested in? Yes can you get you a map? Oh thank you very much. We're on Wood Creek 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:13.680 Circle which is right behind the Denton Company Club 17 and the side of us in there. But it's 00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:29.120 my house and my house is right adjacent right along. So some of your questions are what 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:33.920 I would say are of a technical nature would it be better for you to sit down with a staff 00:09:33.920 --> 00:09:54.120 person and talk through that first. Okay all right yes sir. Thank you. Thank you. All right 00:09:54.120 --> 00:10:12.080 next we have Mr. John Davis. It's been a while since I spoke from this podium and first time 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:19.000 I've ever been limited to three minutes. First let me thank you citizen members of this committee 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:25.280 here for taking time out of your busy schedules to center these projects for our community 00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:36.440 here and your efforts are really appreciated. I've spent I have 46 and a half plus years 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:43.560 as a civil engineer most of my career was spent planning designing building and maintaining 00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:49.920 major roadway projects so I couch that with the suggestions and comments that I'm going 00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:56.760 to give you. One is for your roadway projects that you're considering I believe it's a little 00:10:56.760 --> 00:11:06.040 bit premature. The city is in the process now of updating the 2015 mobility plan. The 00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:13.480 mobility plan is to guide priorities of roadway projects for capacity projects in the future 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.620 they're in the process of updating that and that update is scheduled to be completed in 00:11:18.620 --> 00:11:26.040 February of 2020 so it would seem that you might want or the city and the committee might 00:11:26.040 --> 00:11:33.080 want to wait till that mobility plan is updated to look at the roadway projects and prioritize 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:39.440 them there and see if that brings any new data that would put the election a year from 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:50.360 now. The second thing is on the staff recommended project of Hickory Creek Road extension I'm 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:57.320 sorry let me back up a second. Actually with the 2015 plan one of the most highest priority 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:05.560 roadways in the southern area would be Hobson Lane to widen Hobson Lane and at that you 00:12:05.560 --> 00:12:12.400 should be correcting the intersection at Hobson Country Club and Fort Worth Drive those people 00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:18.120 who drive that area in the afternoon know how much it backs up there but Hobson has 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:27.160 a greater current traffic and projected traffic than Ryan or Hickory Creek. Now jumping down 00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:35.400 to Hickory Creek the congested area of Hickory Creek if you will is east of River Pass between 00:12:35.400 --> 00:12:44.400 River Pass and Keesley Lane there where the houses are. West of that there is no level 00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:52.080 of service D it's A if at the very worst I'm sorry probably B at the very worst except 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:58.460 at the intersection of Country Club there which at the one time the city had plans to 00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:07.240 improve that the intersection there that would improve that congestion point there. But with 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:19.800 the recommended routing of Hickory Creek straight west to 377. Sir your three minutes are up. 00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:27.720 Okay the best routing would be northwest through the floodplain farmland there and tied to 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:35.360 Vintage Road. That way it would connect with the future widening of loop 288 west and connect 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:41.600 to an existing six lane project that's already planned and funded. Thank you for your time. 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:49.560 Thank you for your comments. Thank you. Is there any other cards at this time? Alright 00:13:49.560 --> 00:13:59.600 thank you very much. Alright without any other public comments we'll move on to item 2A I 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:08.560 believe David of going over the meeting minutes for the last three meetings. Has everyone 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:23.440 had a chance to look at those? Any comments or concerns about meeting minutes? Good evening 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:35.760 everyone. I was concerned about I believe I tried to address the May 30th meeting but 00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:44.840 after that there were concerns because the draft minutes did not reflect but only towards 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:55.120 certain people that were already on the committee prior to I've noticed that you know when I 00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:09.520 tried to convey that there needs to be minutes shown that we voted as a whole committee that 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:18.400 should have been on the May 30th minutes and it wasn't and I addressed that at the second 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:28.740 meeting that we were at and so I tried to reach out to the director of finance about 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:38.080 the minutes and you know notice that I just I had to bring it forward that's what I was 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:46.120 told that I had to do and I felt like I had did that anyway on record on the second meeting 00:15:46.120 --> 00:16:00.640 but again I was not heard and there is another committee member who is you know the same 00:16:00.640 --> 00:16:11.880 ethnicity as I and she has brought up concerns about an area that was posted publicly that 00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:20.960 has not been addressed and that would be the southeast Denton location and yet none of 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:26.600 her concerns or questions were also a part of the draft meetings but most importantly 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:36.200 we did a motion on the first meeting that needs to be reflected in the minutes and that 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:42.800 it's not I'm really shocked about the fact that it's not and before this month is over 00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:49.440 that would need to be corrected and you know it's imperative that I address the concerning 00:16:49.440 --> 00:17:00.480 issues of the Dent community being that we are a committee, we are not an ad hoc committee, 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:12.040 we are a standing committee, we meet regularly and we discuss business in our meetings and 00:17:12.040 --> 00:17:25.560 when I spoke at the June 27th meeting regarding somehow we are having subcommittees after 00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:32.920 we made a decision not to have subcommittees and they were labeled as task force committees, 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:44.240 they were labeled as aka finance meetings or a finance meeting group and some of our 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:51.160 counterparts that are on the committee had noticed that we did not vote on a subcommittee 00:17:51.160 --> 00:18:03.440 and you know I've noticed that we also came to a conclusion that oh my God an epiphany 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:12.200 this really is a subcommittee, it is not what it's supposed to be and I was really taken 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:23.440 back because to my face I was told basically a lie that it was not a subcommittee and then 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:29.680 in this it's on record saying that really it truly was a subcommittee so the article 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:37.160 came out for Denton Chronicle about the situation recently here and I believe that was past 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.640 Sunday that I didn't know that they were going to show up at the subcommittee but they did 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:52.880 and so when they noticed as well that it was labeled as such but really it was a subcommittee, 00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:00.360 subcommittees I looked up what the subcommittee quorum should be, I don't know if everybody 00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:09.640 on the committee knows what a quorum is, what it's supposed to have been I believe okay 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:20.880 there's 19 of us all together on this committee and so as a body we would have to have half 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:28.840 of the people from that committee which would have been 10 and one over to be able to meet 00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:45.280 quorum and so right now we have a situation where June 27th the chairman says on record 00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:55.840 that you know we've met twice as you know a task force and well both of those meetings 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:59.400 would have had to be posted but that's not the case. 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:10.360 The case is when I looked online I did not see but one post for the subcommittee and 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:18.080 I don't know if everybody has also went ahead and done and I don't know if everybody received 00:20:18.080 --> 00:20:27.040 the same email that I got on May 30th but we were told that you would need to be looking 00:20:27.040 --> 00:20:35.120 at this video to be certified about what's supposed to happen with an open meetings act 00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:45.120 and so when I looked at the video today all of everything that I have experienced which 00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:54.000 I will label as abuse of oppression because I felt like I was not heard and other members 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:01.160 on the committee have not been heard which would be to me being that the two that were 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:11.880 not heard in the draft minutes would be African American descent both of us is discrimination 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.560 and that is a part of abuse of oppression. 00:21:16.560 --> 00:21:28.240 I am totally taken back about the opens meeting act because from my understanding it says 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:39.520 and I quote in order for members of a governmental body which is us subject to an open meetings 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:47.320 act are required to participate in education training sessions pursuant to section 551.005 00:21:47.320 --> 00:21:55.080 of the Texas government code the training requirement applies to all elected or appointed 00:21:55.080 --> 00:22:03.560 officials who participate in meetings subject to OMA however it does not apply to public 00:22:03.560 --> 00:22:11.040 officials who do not conduct business in meetings subject to OMA and further down it says the 00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:18.640 law requires that the members subject to the OMA complete training within 90 days of taking 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:28.840 the oath of office or otherwise assuming the responsibility of office and if you go online 00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:34.920 you can see this is public information through the Texas attorney general's office. 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:49.520 So that said that makes the subcommittee that has been having meetings with us hardly because 00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:55.480 some of the people in the committee did not even know that this is going on so right there 00:22:55.480 --> 00:23:04.520 is a violation right there the second is that the violation with not posting the meeting 00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:11.040 for the first time that you guys had met you didn't even list the names in the open meetings 00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:17.560 act you have to list the name the time and the date of when you guys met online I saw 00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:28.600 the second meeting for I believe it's July no June I want to say June it's the date in 00:23:28.600 --> 00:23:38.120 June that I have printed out and it was about the second meeting there was no names listed 00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:46.440 there was no time and date it had the video but those things were imperative to be a part 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:54.360 of the drafting minutes and it was not and according to the open meetings act in order 00:23:54.360 --> 00:24:02.680 to have such participation you would have to meet quorum you would have to have those 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:08.840 dates and times people that you attended and you would have to have exactly everything 00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:15.360 that was said in that meeting as a requirement in order to do it or you can't present whatever 00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:22.500 you're trying to present to the committee because it would be considered a violation 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:31.320 because the public has to be able to be informed all the time when there's meetings like this 00:24:31.320 --> 00:24:38.920 that has been brought to our attention and I can't do anything but I can't help but 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:47.880 to think who's responsible for allowing these subcommittees to go on even after we had a 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:55.360 vote not to have them they were disallowed I was kind of taken back to to notice that 00:24:55.360 --> 00:25:03.600 somebody an authority had to have allowed that so I looked on the video and I saw that 00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:16.520 it's the city manager and I saw that you know the director of finance you know was a part 00:25:16.520 --> 00:25:23.400 of allowing these meetings to continue now I'm sure that they've taken I could be wrong 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:28.480 I could be wrong but I'm sure that they've taken these open meetings at training for 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:35.400 certification but we also I have I also saw that we also have to take it within 90 days 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:46.360 and no May 30th is when we first got word of this so that means June 30th July 30th 00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:57.240 that's only 60 days I'm like we we have to do this and then we're talking about the cities 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:07.480 in debt being in debt about how that article came out about the state giving funds you 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:15.040 know to the city and the city has not the city of didn't the citizens have not felt 00:26:15.040 --> 00:26:22.320 like the money was spent properly and there was nothing that could be squeezed out of 00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:31.400 that but yet I find out online that the city manager was still able he got he got here 00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:43.800 in 2016 in 2018 he was able to squeeze out 4% of getting a raise and I thought that we 00:26:43.800 --> 00:26:53.320 were in debt so I wasn't sure what what what's going on with how we're conducting things 00:26:53.320 --> 00:27:02.360 we can't go on Mr. Chair I'd like to ask if this is in order because you had minutes 00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:08.240 minutes for approval on the floor and we don't have any kind of emotion we're just having 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:17.760 a speech could could I suggest could I suggest if that's the case if that's the case let's 00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:23.160 vote on the minutes and then open open the floor for that but we have what is on the 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:30.840 floor is a motion on to approve the minutes from the June 27th meeting now there's a specific 00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:37.040 thing that she wants to admit or to correct in the minutes let's correct the minutes but 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:41.280 but right now we're talking about a raise to the city manager which has nothing to do 00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:45.960 with this bond election and due to the fact that I wasn't here for June 27th I don't 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:50.120 know if y'all heard about what happened why I wasn't here but that's why I would like 00:27:50.120 --> 00:27:54.760 to hear what's going on what we're voting for so I would that's why I want to hear what 00:27:54.760 --> 00:28:05.680 she has to say okay so this is this is a concern because as a body a governmental body such 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:16.880 as this we have issues before us that's brought to our attention and if we're not acting properly 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:25.000 towards the act you know we can't call ourselves an ad hoc meeting because it's not like we're 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:30.760 trying to do a festival and have you know a bunch of us just thinking about okay what 00:28:30.760 --> 00:28:33.880 we're going to plan for that meeting and then we're not going to see each other again that's 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:41.520 what an ad hoc meeting our committee is but we are actually meeting regularly and conducting 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:50.360 business so that's what my concerns were I mean the quorum not being met you know being 00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:58.320 another question when you say quorum was not met right for the for the full committee no 00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:04.820 for this that the body members of the committee in order for you to do a subcommittee you 00:29:04.820 --> 00:29:11.880 would have to have what half of the people from the committee come and then one over 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:20.720 so half of 19 is 11 so wait when you did the subcommittee you only had seven people at 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:29.080 that yeah so it was like mr. chairman I'm sorry at the May 30th draft minutes it says 00:29:29.080 --> 00:29:36.040 it was a task force correct what was were the because I was not I can't remember what 00:29:36.040 --> 00:29:44.040 point I was here were the May 30th minutes approved yes yes so so it was a task force 00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:54.180 that was created and I'm sorry I don't understand the the going from a task force to now a subcommittee 00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:59.720 and I'm not sure if that's because in the meetings that I missed if there was a change 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:08.000 no thank you is there a chance that somebody could address the open like whether we actually 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:16.640 even fall under the open means at or is the city attorney here as he's coming up I will 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:23.640 point out that both the June 27th tight finance task force meeting was an open meeting that 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:28.040 was posted and we're approving the minutes for that meeting today it was open to all 00:30:28.040 --> 00:30:32.060 committee members posted for the public obviously recorded for the public and the meeting today 00:30:32.060 --> 00:30:38.480 for the finance committee the finance task force meeting was again posted open for the 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:44.060 open for the public and open for all members of the committee mr. chairman can I read from 00:30:44.060 --> 00:30:50.400 the May 30th minutes I'm sorry that there is some confusion but these are the minutes 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:57.440 that were approved part of them following a discussion on the committee's next direction 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:03.680 committee chair Pat Smith call for a motion to form a task force to focus on the bond 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.040 programs financing where to draw the funding line and based on affordability researching 00:31:08.040 --> 00:31:15.280 and providing options etc. Tim Crouch made a motion to form a task force focusing on 00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:27.400 the proposed bond programs financing I seconded the motion and the motion passed unanimously 00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:33.520 which is what we approved in our minutes from May the 30th you advised mr. Gaines that the 00:31:33.520 --> 00:31:38.520 task force meetings be scheduled separately from the committee's meetings and offered 00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:49.160 staffs assistance with posting the meetings they've been posted also chairman Smith invited 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:55.280 any of the committee members who wanted to be involved in the task force to participate 00:31:55.280 --> 00:32:01.600 by contacting Susan Parker so we were all offered the opportunity to serve on the task force 00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:09.360 committee and the motion was approved unanimously they show a hands of everybody who thought 00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:15.160 that we voted on as a committee as a whole does everybody remember that or do you guys 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:22.760 remember just doing it as a subcommittee yeah so let me let me get me right the task force 00:32:22.760 --> 00:32:27.280 committee is to take a vote on what we've discussed and bring that back to the whole 00:32:27.280 --> 00:32:32.320 committee correct correct we go over it right right okay for the point of clarification 00:32:32.320 --> 00:32:37.040 the task force meetings are open to all committee members there will be no vote at those meetings 00:32:37.040 --> 00:32:40.520 they will come back whoever attends those meetings I believe the intent and this is 00:32:40.520 --> 00:32:46.040 from the committee itself is for them just to come back and speak about any considerations 00:32:46.040 --> 00:32:50.360 that they had during those meetings there is no vote at any of the finance meetings 00:32:50.360 --> 00:32:54.240 and again those are open to all committee members and we've not taken any vote and 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:06.160 you know Queen I have a point of order that if you have a comment on an amendment to meeting 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:12.880 minutes that have need to be corrected then make make a motion to amend the meeting minutes 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:20.600 I did what's the motion I you made a motion for us to go ahead and have us vote as a whole 00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:26.280 there was not if that vote that there was a subcommittee after that it was after we 00:33:26.280 --> 00:33:31.560 voted doesn't make any sense how y'all came it wasn't even like the whole like when I 00:33:31.560 --> 00:33:38.760 mentioned it even on June 27 not everybody even knew that there was a vote for a subcommittee 00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:43.200 at all there that's because there wasn't a vote for a subcommittee there was a vote for 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:48.600 a task force but people are getting there are really believing that that task force 00:33:48.600 --> 00:33:56.040 is doing business in the meetings it's nowhere so discussing finance business we're discussing 00:33:56.040 --> 00:34:01.760 finance business but in and correct me I'm wrong today but we are not taking any vote 00:34:01.760 --> 00:34:08.720 on any motion which would be considered formal business all we're doing is formulating recommend 00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:14.160 ations multiple recommendations which we intend to present tonight to the entire committee 00:34:14.160 --> 00:34:22.960 and we were very careful not to vote on anything but simply to bring options to the full committee 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:28.400 which we intend to tonight but that opened to me abuse if have you ever done this before 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:34.480 that opens the meetings act yes yes so you would know that there would be no way that 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:41.960 you could present anything without you didn't have all of your all of not have to have all 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:48.640 of us there but you didn't even meet all the the quorum qualifications requirements well 00:34:48.640 --> 00:34:52.920 I'm going to defer to the city attorney on that topic Larry calls to the city attorney's 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:58.480 office what I understand the minutes as they were read I was here for that meeting that's 00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:04.160 what that's what occurred is that the task force was set up just for additional detailed 00:35:04.160 --> 00:35:10.600 discussion by members of this body and that no formal action was going to be taken by 00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:15.920 that body there's recommendations made by this by that task force this committee for 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.400 recommendation from this committee that else lady council that's all that was going on 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:25.120 it was posted to that it was also made available for everybody to show up and that there it 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:31.440 wasn't it's not two other it's only one showing for the posting for that for that for the 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:37.320 task force I'm just going off the records that I've viewed that have been posted online 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:41.760 in that in the minutes that have been approved yeah and unless somebody can point to where 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:46.200 there's been a specific violation I'm not seeing anything now that's not for me helping 00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:50.520 to make the decision on that but I want you to understand is that what what the chair 00:35:50.520 --> 00:35:55.800 is saying what other members are saying what the minutes reflect is that no decision is 00:35:55.800 --> 00:36:01.960 being made to that task force task force with respect to the financing options are being 00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:07.800 presented later they're just recommendations it's open for a full deliberation this evening 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:14.020 and so everybody sitting here at this table will have the ability to vote on every option 00:36:14.020 --> 00:36:18.880 that's either recommended or not recommended by the task force and so you're going to be 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:26.080 able to have your opportunity to entertain anything the floor is going to be wide open 00:36:26.080 --> 00:36:32.400 for it so I just wouldn't recommend it I wouldn't recommend it but I definitely was able to 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:39.520 at least point out everything that I saw and you know like I said it's just you're not 00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:48.520 really supposed to do it but now you know on record that it's been been said and heard 00:36:48.520 --> 00:36:56.120 but if you continue to do it anyway okay yeah I wouldn't do it though I wouldn't do it 00:36:56.120 --> 00:37:02.000 I wouldn't wouldn't do it I promise you I wouldn't do it what wouldn't you do I would 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:08.400 not I would not present to the committee anything that you've discussed because right now there's 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:17.400 no posting of the first meeting that you guys had to be meeting quorum and then the second 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:24.360 meeting did not have who was in the meeting the time or the date and that's the requirement 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:30.720 through the attorney general I wouldn't do it I wouldn't do it I wouldn't do it noted 00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:35.840 thank you so I have a question with what she's stating there are several different meetings 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:41.480 that we've had that I had some concerns about Southeast Denton was that anywhere in the 00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:50.520 meetings is that has that been brought up or I think it's in a tonight's meeting yeah 00:37:50.520 --> 00:37:57.520 item 2d on the next item on the agenda will address Southeast Denton and the projects 00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:02.880 are associated with shopping sit in the bond program do you agree though that David that's 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:10.960 a broad when you sent me that email about that it's for 70 million dollars and it's 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:16.480 only saying what's the term they're giving it it didn't name like how you're naming 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:24.000 Bonnie Ray Ray okay and how you're naming Hickory you're naming those I think that's 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.620 a great discussion to have when we get the to be I think okay I would like to move approval 00:38:30.620 --> 00:38:53.200 of the June 27th meeting all three I'll second that motion any discussion other discussion 00:38:53.200 --> 00:39:01.720 all in favor approving the June 20th June 27th and June 3 p.m. and June 27th at 6 p.m. 00:39:01.720 --> 00:39:19.400 meeting minutes raise your right hand all opposed same sign motion passes all right 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:28.440 moving on to item to be take your way David good evening committee we're going to take 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:33.600 this opportunity to just touch on the projects at a high level and some changes to recent 00:39:33.600 --> 00:39:38.760 changes that have just kind of changed some of our cost that just happened in the past 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:44.840 a couple of days I will say up to this point we've now presented all projects within within 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:50.400 the considerations for the bond program so this is obviously an opportunity to ask any 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:56.800 questions whether referencing former presentations or questions that you have regarding any program 00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:00.800 this is a definitely an opportunity for that and we have staff here that could address 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:06.080 any of those projects I want to I want to start off the presentation by touching on our 00:40:06.080 --> 00:40:11.960 public public safety facility projects just in the past couple of days we've had some 00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:17.040 revisions to our estimates for the public safety facilities and obviously they're significant 00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:21.400 and we wanted to bring this to the committee as soon as possible we engage in estimating 00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:27.560 firm peak program value to review all of our all of our costs for these facility projects 00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:32.920 for the police station renovation for the police substation for in for fire station 00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.160 eight this is now the fourth review we've had of those dollars starting initially with 00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:43.040 the city staff estimate and then going into our architect X estimate and the architect 00:40:43.040 --> 00:40:48.160 even used an estimating firm but as we go forward we wanted to make sure that we felt 00:40:48.160 --> 00:40:53.320 confident in the numbers so we brought in another firm to come in and take a hard look 00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:59.600 at the cost this is a firm that has a nationwide footprint has worked with Louisville city 00:40:59.600 --> 00:41:03.440 of Louisville quite a bit is currently working with the city of Richardson so we really take 00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:08.760 a lot of value in their estimates and their opinion so they took a look at look at the 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:14.120 projects and you can see here in total they're recommending that we increase our cost estimates 00:41:14.120 --> 00:41:19.040 by about twenty one million dollars between the two projects together an increase of close 00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:23.880 to twelve million dollars for the police renovation and an increase of about nine and a half million 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:30.400 dollars for the police substation that increase at twenty one million dollar increase about 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.480 five million of that is just strictly construction costs so the construction estimates that we 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:41.320 had moving forward were pretty close to where we are now with this new estimate the remainder 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:46.000 of that delta between the five million and the twenty one million that additional sixteen 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:51.240 million is driven by these factors listed here the largest being an increased amount 00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:57.240 for contingency and for cost inflation over the two three years that the project will 00:41:57.240 --> 00:42:02.600 actually be going on until completion of the project the initial estimates did have an 00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:08.000 amount for contingency and inflation but it was definitely a much lower amount than the 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.520 new estimators that have come in and looked at what we should really consider in these 00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:18.680 costs should be so we feel more comfortable going with this larger amount for contingency 00:42:18.680 --> 00:42:26.000 and inflation for these projects but it does have an impact on the total amount total dollar 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:31.440 amount I think from a staff perspective the worst thing we could do is go forward with 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:38.240 a bond election have a bond election approved eventually and be underfunded on these projects 00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:42.000 there has been a number of months since our initial initial estimate in February or so 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:47.440 or even prior so the time time difference is going to have some some impact on that 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:52.440 as costs have increased but also I think it's a philosophical difference in how these estimators 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:57.900 have looked at the projects that have driven that increase the other the second second 00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:02.200 largest increase in the dollar amounts in these estimates compared to the former estimates 00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:07.920 are for infrastructure for IT security and AV systems these are obviously very significant 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:14.420 at any police station or substation and those increases are two to three million dollars 00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:20.880 more now in this revised estimate than we had previously and given the nature of those 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:27.320 items at a police station we feel it's important that we include those those enhanced numbers 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:32.560 the remainder of the items here are not as significant as those top two and the construction 00:43:32.560 --> 00:43:38.740 cost increases but we are now anticipating increased design engineering costs some professional 00:43:38.740 --> 00:43:43.960 services that weren't included initially for material testing and then increased cost 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:49.560 for the furnitures and fixtures that are needed to fill out the buildings so again 00:43:49.560 --> 00:43:53.320 we wanted to bring this to you as as soon as possible as soon as we got the numbers 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:58.640 especially as we're heading into that discussion with the committee of prioritization and ultimately 00:43:58.640 --> 00:44:03.200 to decisions in the next couple of meetings so I'll open it up for any questions that 00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:13.160 you have on this right now before before I continue microphone what is the estimated 00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:19.160 completion of both of these projects in other words knowing the increase we have per month 00:44:19.160 --> 00:44:27.400 just for roads do you see where this went is this actually enough well we feel like 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.960 this is enough we feel like we like this is this is a good dollar amount we would issue 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.360 these funds in 2021 the remainder of these funds in 2020 and 2021 and the project would 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:45.560 complete in 2022 thank you they did look at the fire station we have a preliminary estimate 00:44:45.560 --> 00:44:51.840 on that it may it may vary slightly but it won't be anything anything close to us right 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:54.840 oh yes for sure 00:45:15.560 --> 00:45:39.400 yeah $200,000 $400,000 over a million 1.3 Karen did you have a question Nathan did you 00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:48.120 have a question John we had earlier talked about building a new police department if 00:45:48.120 --> 00:45:54.120 you're really asking this kind of costs isn't it not more feasible to go ahead scratch this 00:45:54.120 --> 00:46:03.720 and build a new police department you figured someone would ask that the our initial estimates 00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:07.560 on the the new police station was about 20 million dollars more than what we're seeing 00:46:07.560 --> 00:46:11.080 here so basically what happened when they went through and did the estimating they've 00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:15.800 got recent bids from the Richardson project and they just finished up one in in Louisville 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.680 what they're saying is if you're carrying out these projects for the next 36 months 00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:27.760 you've significantly underestimated the amount of that so I of the carry that you're going 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:32.920 to have to see a new the renovation project if we built new you're going to acquire additional 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.160 land and you're probably looking at another 20 to 25 million above and beyond what you're 00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:42.280 seeing here it was it was not even a close Delta which is why we decided with the same 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:46.440 money back then we were discussing do we go ahead and build the substation so the chiefs 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:52.560 cut the ability to to put folks out in the areas out near Robeson and from that area 00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:56.560 and they're not having to fight to get downtown and get out of their districts that long and 00:46:56.560 --> 00:47:00.400 centralize it or do you just build a larger station and try and come up with a different 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.760 solution so when we added the two projects together we were pretty close to building 00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:15.480 a new station itself I was doing a lot of research and I found in Round Rock for example 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:21.840 they use all their fire stations as police substations that would give you seven or eight 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:29.400 substations across the city and they do that simply by having small substations that the 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:34.120 unit can go to and they can download and do all their data and basically they don't have 00:47:34.120 --> 00:47:41.800 to assign desks it's more like what you see where they share the desk sure so for Round 00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:45.960 Rock specifically since I came from central Texas their city is not spread out as much 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:51.320 as we are it's a lot more condensed and compact where you can get away with doing that the 00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:56.400 problem you have having officers working out of fire stations is you don't have a secure 00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:04.080 way to drop off evidence evidence has to be secured for chain of custody you can't transport 00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:09.880 prisoners to the substation to a fire station to stop and interview them you can't meet 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.520 complainants at fire stations to take interviews from or reports from they still have to take 00:48:15.520 --> 00:48:19.800 all them back to their main police station downtown so because they're not as spread 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:26.760 out as we are it's very easy to do that to be able to work out of one police station 00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:31.880 as we continue to grow it will be virtually impossible for us to do that without having 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:40.100 police officers out of their districts for a long period of time that was one of your 00:48:40.100 --> 00:48:45.720 issues before was they couldn't stop in the parking lot and do their report but they could 00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:56.000 go to a fire station and do that Chief what's your take on this in terms of cost growth 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:15.560 and do you have I defer to David Gaines honest answer for the extra 21 million are we getting 00:49:15.560 --> 00:49:26.680 exactly what we had estimated or proposed that's it's no no extra benefits thrown in 00:49:26.680 --> 00:49:33.640 in other words it's still you didn't cut scope to get scope hasn't the scope remained the 00:49:33.640 --> 00:49:39.080 same and we just simply had new sets of eyes based on brand and most recent pricing says 00:49:39.080 --> 00:49:43.520 how those were developed in terms of are we getting exactly need I'm gonna leave that 00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:48.240 up to chief dancers I'm gonna use part of that design yeah definitely we are we are 00:49:48.240 --> 00:49:53.480 getting exactly and that was a lot of the thought process before we even put together 00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:59.080 a package to come forward with was to make sure that we wouldn't be recreating this process 00:49:59.080 --> 00:50:11.400 again we're talking 30 40 years down the road I have one question only because we're looking 00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:17.440 at this now going to City Council for you know we make a recommendation from this committee 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:25.960 to Council and then it goes on the November ballot voted yes or no how much more of an 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:33.720 increase between now and November or January when this starts have we looked at those increases 00:50:33.720 --> 00:50:42.080 as well yes this these numbers were grossed up using current bid numbers and inflationary 00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:47.920 factors to assume that we would have about a 36-month window so as long as and I've 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:52.880 been working with staff in order to move around some of the timing of the projects to make 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:56.440 sure that the public safety projects would be the first ones in the gate to try to stem 00:50:56.440 --> 00:51:03.320 that we feel like we've got in I got a question this earlier today about the the road projects 00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:08.640 that we definitely feel like we've got adequate contingency and inflationary escalation bill 00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:13.420 on those based upon our even our most recent bids that we've left so both of those we feel 00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:19.720 like we're comfortable for the next duration of bond program chief I have a question and 00:51:19.720 --> 00:51:33.200 I'm sorry if I remember correct we wanted to do the substation first so that then functions 00:51:33.200 --> 00:51:39.120 at the main station to move out to the substation correct which would then allow a phased renovation 00:51:39.120 --> 00:51:44.560 of the main police station correct that's still that is still the plan yes sir so there 00:51:44.560 --> 00:51:52.360 is a there is a linkage between the two if if you deferred the substation my guess is 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:57.200 there's going to be some additional cost to the renovation because you're not going to 00:51:57.200 --> 00:52:04.680 have to create swing space is that a is that a term yeah swing space is a term you have 00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:09.240 to create swing space for those functions that we're going to renovate to move to you 00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:14.600 renovate and move them back correct accurate statement that is very accurate if we take 00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:20.040 the substation out and we're only doing dealing with the station downtown we will have to 00:52:20.040 --> 00:52:26.960 think of some way to move personnel around while it's being renovated whether it's bringing 00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:36.960 in you know mobile buildings or repurposing space okay I think I think one of the other 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:42.280 things that we've also tried to do is we've been talking about going to a general construction 00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:47.160 manager risk project contract for both buildings so they can coordinate both subs you know 00:52:47.160 --> 00:52:55.760 concrete plumbing whatever it is and make the most of those efficiencies so this is 00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:59.320 a pretty big change in price tag any other questions 00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:12.360 so the tax rate assumptions were that 210 million was sort of no effect on the tax rate 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:20.720 is this now going to affect the tax rate well I will get we'll get into that discussion 00:53:20.720 --> 00:53:27.400 here if we stay at the 210 we still feel the total tax rate will not go over our current 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:32.840 total tax rate and and I can just kind of jump to this quickly and this was in the finance 00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:37.120 presentation that was sent to everyone along with additional backup information that went 00:53:37.120 --> 00:53:41.840 along with that finance presentation but you can see if and I think right now we're at 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:46.280 a point where we feel comfortable going forward a five percent increase assumption and assessed 00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:51.480 values that would be a four cent increase a max four cent increase on the debt service 00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:58.400 tax rate specifically but it would keep us below the total tax rate at 210 if we were 00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:03.200 were to go up and just add this additional amount and go up to 230 million dollars we're 00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:07.080 going to run the numbers and get the increase will probably be about five and a half cents 00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:12.600 on the debt service tax rate side that might take us over that total tax rate in one or 00:54:12.600 --> 00:54:16.800 two years just for one or two years of that of the six-year window that's something that 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.240 we're going to run the numbers on to see what the impact on the total tax rate would be 00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:31.760 how are you all calculating what the tax revenue is going to be when the appraisal district 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:38.240 challenges are ongoing and I was notified that mine wouldn't even be scheduled till possibly 00:54:38.240 --> 00:54:46.200 November we're taken as educated of a guess as I can we we get we get assessed preliminary 00:54:46.200 --> 00:54:51.160 reports on our assessed value we get 15 preliminary reports before our final report we've met 00:54:51.160 --> 00:54:55.680 we just got our 15th report last Friday so we have two weeks net from now we'll get our 00:54:55.680 --> 00:55:01.680 final certified values based on trends and last year how those values have decreased 00:55:01.680 --> 00:55:06.500 I've made some assumptions on where we might end up in assessed values but it's a variable 00:55:06.500 --> 00:55:12.040 out there the appraisal district has said they've had the record number of protests 00:55:12.040 --> 00:55:16.640 so it is something that in two weeks we'll get our certified values and that'll be our 00:55:16.640 --> 00:55:21.600 final number that we work from but up until that point we are making the best estimate 00:55:21.600 --> 00:55:25.640 that we can and what the assessed value will be even though it will clearly be changing 00:55:25.640 --> 00:55:31.840 all the way up to the protests I know they're doing commercial first and residential second 00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:37.080 so basically the numbers that we have now we have our preliminary value we've reduced 00:55:37.080 --> 00:55:42.520 that significantly anticipating those drops but you know it could be even more than we 00:55:42.520 --> 00:55:43.520 anticipated. 00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:56.420 David would you want to show the historical chart that you showed earlier? 00:55:56.420 --> 00:56:04.720 So as we're discussing a 5% AV growth assumption here you can see our AV growth since 2008 00:56:04.720 --> 00:56:09.840 we picked 2008 so that we could see kind of the impact of a recession if it were to come 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:14.360 obviously having one in 2008 and you always have somewhat delayed effect on property values 00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:19.440 after a recession as they drop so you can see that we had that drop there but since 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:26.240 2011 we've had steady increases with significant increases from 2014 on currently we're estimating 00:56:26.240 --> 00:56:34.680 a total increase in AV of about 8.8% if we look at just non-frozen values which obviously 00:56:34.680 --> 00:56:38.320 we have our we have the tax freeze in place now our second year of the tax freeze it's 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:44.020 about 7.3% which is really the number that would be in our forecast so that's 7.3% increase 00:56:44.020 --> 00:56:47.400 on those non-frozen values that we're looking at right now. 00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:56.680 And David compared old versus new growth what are those ratios or those amounts? 00:56:56.680 --> 00:57:04.120 Our new growth is around $420 million, $430 million and our total assessed value is around 00:57:04.120 --> 00:57:08.160 $11 billion. 00:57:08.160 --> 00:57:16.440 So new growth is about four tenths of a percent of the total tax base so if you're saying 00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:28.800 well we've got new growth we're putting an eye dropper in the ocean. 00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:49.560 Then that average is including the recession is six percent. 00:57:49.560 --> 00:57:59.880 Alright do you want to go move on to the current project costs? 00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:04.880 So a lot of numbers up here obviously but I thought it was important to just show from 00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:08.440 a high level view what this change does to our total options. 00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:12.440 You can see these are the estimates we've been working on and these numbers have obviously 00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:16.640 tweaked and changed especially on the roadway project as we've gone through the process 00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:22.400 notably on Ryan Road which decreased significantly when we saw the impact of Hickory Creek. 00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:29.320 But you can see in total for our proposition for public safety facilities that estimate 00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:37.780 has now increased from $45.5 million to $66.9 million including the police station renovation, 00:58:37.780 --> 00:58:42.440 fire station aid, substation and firing range and I will note the order that we have these 00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:48.520 in are these are the staff recommended how we would prioritize the projects for each 00:58:48.520 --> 00:58:53.080 proposition with the renovation first, fire station aid second and then down on the roadways 00:58:53.080 --> 00:58:55.640 Bonnie Grand, Hickory Creek. 00:58:55.640 --> 00:59:02.160 So obviously what that does is we're at to stay at the two hundred and ten million dollar 00:59:02.160 --> 00:59:08.480 mark we would either you know do something different in public safety facilities or do 00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:15.280 something less in the roadways on one of the roadway projects or we would increase the 00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:20.840 pie from the two ten to take into account the increased estimate for the public safety 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:25.560 facilities. 00:59:25.560 --> 00:59:27.560 Any questions, comments? 00:59:27.560 --> 00:59:38.880 So again I just one thing to point out and this is brought up at a previous meeting so 00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:43.680 as we consider going up over the two hundred and ten our estimate is about fourteen million 00:59:43.680 --> 00:59:48.400 if we add fourteen million dollars that would equate to a cent on the tax rate for that 00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:53.720 max increase and again that max increase just means in one year we go that high it doesn't 00:59:53.720 --> 00:59:57.760 mean we're going to be up to the max each of the six years of the program it's just 00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:02.520 we hit that in one year but by the nature of debt service that fluctuates down following 01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:03.520 that. 01:00:03.520 --> 01:00:06.880 So fourteen million dollars and that's how we got to the point where we say that twenty 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:12.120 million is about a cent and a half increase over what we're showing here to say we're 01:00:12.120 --> 01:00:16.600 at twenty million now so that's fourteen plus the six. 01:00:16.600 --> 01:00:26.440 Sorry could you go back one slide on the Ryan Road, on the Ryan Road the total cost and 01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:34.480 then the updated why did it go from ten million ten to twenty five million on the original 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:38.480 and then down to four to nineteen million. 01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:43.600 That amount decreased more than that previously what this is showing here is just the four 01:00:43.600 --> 01:00:48.160 to nineteen million would be the city funding up the funds in the bond program the additional 01:00:48.160 --> 01:00:51.160 amount would be funds from other sources. 01:00:51.160 --> 01:00:56.760 That amount did decrease from other iterations but that old amount's not included on the 01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:57.760 bond program. 01:00:57.760 --> 01:00:58.760 Thank you. 01:00:58.760 --> 01:00:59.760 So I do have a quick question. 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:00.760 Sure. 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.760 On the street rehab program it has seventy million right? 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:07.840 Southeast Dent is part of that correct? 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:08.840 Correct. 01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:11.920 How much of that is actually going toward Southeast Dent? 01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:15.500 Ten point eight million of the seventy million on the street rehab program is going toward 01:01:15.500 --> 01:01:20.000 Southeast Dent. 01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:25.680 So if I can just jump to this quickly and give you a view of our estimates right now 01:01:25.680 --> 01:01:31.040 for the time of the bond program in Southeast Denton we're estimating close to eleven million 01:01:31.040 --> 01:01:35.640 dollars in the street rehab program about a half million dollars of the twelve million 01:01:35.640 --> 01:01:39.520 dollar sidewalks program would be devoted to Southeast Denton for a total of eleven 01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:43.200 point three included in the bond program in Southeast Denton. 01:01:43.200 --> 01:01:47.200 We've also shown some of the other funding that won't be included in the bond program 01:01:47.200 --> 01:01:48.200 but especially on the water. 01:01:48.200 --> 01:01:51.520 Wastewater is really tied to a lot of the projects that would be going on with the street 01:01:51.520 --> 01:01:52.520 rehab program. 01:01:52.520 --> 01:01:57.000 We're estimating about twelve point four million dollars in investment from our utility 01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:01.240 funding would go toward Southeast Denton and then another two point five million dollars 01:02:01.240 --> 01:02:05.560 just for our regular maintenance that's paid through for our operating street fund would 01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:09.680 go toward Southeast Denton over the life of this bond. 01:02:09.680 --> 01:02:15.720 Okay so as being a resident and a business owner in Southeast Denton ten point eight 01:02:15.720 --> 01:02:18.640 million we pay taxes over there as well. 01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:23.960 Almost every street in Southeast Denton has potholes, not potholes, potholes and needs 01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:31.300 repair not just continuing to patch the potholes we need the streets to be repaired. 01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:38.400 So where does this come in and how much of the bond funds previously have been spent 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:41.240 on repairing Southeast Denton? 01:02:41.240 --> 01:02:48.400 Todd, as the City Engineer as far as what previous bond dollars actually went into Southeast 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:50.520 Denton I'd have to go investigate that. 01:02:50.520 --> 01:02:54.000 I don't know the answer to that one off the top of my head. 01:02:54.000 --> 01:03:05.760 What I can show you is what David was talking about is there are several different avenues 01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:09.600 that we would go down for every street so not every street in Southeast Denton falls 01:03:09.600 --> 01:03:15.400 into that below 45 OCI category so it's yes it's got some potholes but there are certain 01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.820 areas where we don't have to rebuild the entire street from the foundation of the roadway 01:03:19.820 --> 01:03:24.120 all the way to the top where you're seeing a lot of potholes obviously there's something 01:03:24.120 --> 01:03:28.040 going on but we don't necessarily have to rebuild the street from the bottom up that's 01:03:28.040 --> 01:03:32.880 where the bond dollars go in that other two and a half million dollars the vast majority 01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:38.040 of that would be what we would call a mill and overlay so most of those streets are asphalt 01:03:38.040 --> 01:03:43.000 roadways so a mill and overlay we actually bring in the machine that chews up the entire 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:46.840 top layer of the roadway and it can go as deep as six to eight inches which would be 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:51.960 well lower than any of the potholes you're seeing out there and then we would rebuild 01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:56.940 the entire street from that eight inches up those places are those places so you'll see 01:03:56.940 --> 01:03:59.880 these areas on this map up here I don't know if you can see it all that well from where 01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:06.280 you're at so any of these lines that are in green are roadways and this was as early or 01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:10.240 as late as yet just earlier today we went and just double checked to make sure we had 01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:17.880 the same the right information but the green areas are areas that it just need it needs 01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:22.080 an oil change kind of like your car needs an oil change just to keep going so some of 01:04:22.080 --> 01:04:26.800 those areas and you'll see it's it's a fairly small area in that entire southeast 01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:31.040 dentin area but you're the green lines are where we would come and put a new surface 01:04:31.040 --> 01:04:36.580 layer very thin layer on top so that it would last a much longer time these areas in yellow 01:04:36.580 --> 01:04:41.380 probably we're seeing a lot more of the potholes along with the areas in red so these areas 01:04:41.380 --> 01:04:45.920 in red we would rebuild the entire roadway from the foundation of the roadway which is 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:52.080 a good 24 to 30 inches deep in some places all the way back up so it's a brand new road 01:04:52.080 --> 01:04:57.040 then the areas that you see in yellow the foundation of the road still in good shape 01:04:57.040 --> 01:05:01.880 but it's that top course that needs to be ground down and replaced so that you don't 01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:05.240 have that pothole condition and and that would be these areas in yellow 01:05:05.240 --> 01:05:11.040 well some of the areas that i see that are in yellow and they you say that it's just 01:05:11.040 --> 01:05:16.840 the top just where the potholes but if you go back and look these are just have been 01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:22.680 just repaired over and over and i feel like if you stop just repairing it and just fix 01:05:22.680 --> 01:05:25.840 what needs to be fixed then that'll save as well 01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:30.640 so a pothole repair is different from a mill and overlay so a pothole repair which you've 01:05:30.640 --> 01:05:36.400 been saying is i come in fill in that hole and just move on and hope that it lasts for 01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:40.400 a while that's not what a mill and overlay is mill and overlay i'm gonna come in and 01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:46.080 do the entire road so that's exactly what we're talking we're rebuilding the entire 01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:51.680 road what you typically get with a pothole is there's been a crack or something that 01:05:51.680 --> 01:05:56.240 started to develop a hole you see it throughout denton then over time as cars continue to 01:05:56.240 --> 01:06:00.960 run over it or we get into the cold weather when we get that one or two freezes a year 01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:04.760 here i mean we don't get that many but when you get a few of them water gets in there 01:06:04.760 --> 01:06:09.320 and it sits and then it freezes and when water freezes it expands that makes the roadway 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.440 tear itself up even faster and then the cars continue to roll over just on and on and on 01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:18.360 so those potholes just get bigger and if you don't address them when they're really small 01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:21.520 then you get what you've got right now in so many places in denton you've got just a 01:06:21.520 --> 01:06:28.040 lot of potholes the bottom of that is still good but that top six to eight inches sometimes 01:06:28.040 --> 01:06:32.440 it's even nine inches depending on where you're in town that's the part we would be grinding 01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:37.120 all the way down to the bottom all the way across the entire width of the roadway for 01:06:37.120 --> 01:06:43.040 the entire length of that roadway and i do understand the difference um and i still feel 01:06:43.040 --> 01:06:50.800 like a lot of the streets in southeast didn't need to have the total repair um there's you 01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:55.040 go down one street sometimes you feel like you're going down a hill or up a hill and 01:06:55.040 --> 01:07:01.920 it's supposed to be a straightaway so there's 15 roughly 15 lane miles that we've identified 01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:07.640 it's 16 we call it 63 seconds but it's 15 lane miles of roadway in that southeast denton 01:07:07.640 --> 01:07:12.600 area that absolutely has to be broken all the way down to the foundation rebuild the 01:07:12.600 --> 01:07:17.560 foundation all the way back up you're 100 right and that's where the vast majority of 01:07:17.560 --> 01:07:22.760 the bond money spent in this area would go so that nearly 11 million dollars would go 01:07:22.760 --> 01:07:29.480 to that over that 15 lane miles then you've got about another four lane miles that wouldn't 01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:34.800 get rebuilt it would get that milling overlay we'd come down nine inches and put nine brand 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:39.860 new inches or whatever the width the however deep the actual asphalt is we put a brand 01:07:39.860 --> 01:07:44.760 new coat across the entire thing the entire width entire length down for the asphalt to 01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:51.320 the top of the foundation and then you'd have another eight lane miles still in good condition 01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:57.680 we just need to overtop it and just give it a longer life i had uh previously in previous 01:07:57.680 --> 01:08:03.520 meetings requested some information um for southeast denton that some say i can find 01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:08.040 it online but i was advised that it would be given to me i still haven't received that 01:08:08.040 --> 01:08:12.960 i do i would like to receive it can you remind me what that information is um i asked about 01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:18.840 when the last time the roads were repaired in southeast denton i did ask as well about 01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:24.480 when was the how much was spent to repair the roads in southeast denton and um on the 01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:30.520 out of the bond money previously as well um i was advised at the meeting that i asked well 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:34.120 we'll we don't have it now but we'll get it for your next meeting we didn't have it next 01:08:34.120 --> 01:08:39.280 meeting my sincere apologies we have been doing a lot of things and we missed that one so 01:08:39.280 --> 01:08:44.320 we will make sure that that gets taken care of therese we can make sure that's in the 01:08:44.320 --> 01:08:44.800 meeting minutes 01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:51.920 tog can you explain a little bit what's going to happen to locust and elm over the next year or 01:08:51.920 --> 01:09:02.320 two yes i'm sorry i'm sorry i thought you were done no come on when i go southeast didn't y'all 01:09:02.320 --> 01:09:11.120 know i'm stuck for um on the street repair it didn't the 70 million for that area stayed 01:09:11.120 --> 01:09:17.520 the same with everyone else increasing or why didn't it increase in that area because due to 01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:25.040 the fact that southeast didn't doesn't have any sidewalks there's no so i understand the new 01:09:25.040 --> 01:09:32.160 areas being built they want sidewalks but i feel like instead of building sidewalks in areas that 01:09:32.160 --> 01:09:37.680 really don't need it repair the streets that need to be repaired not only in southeast didn't there's 01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:43.360 some downtown as well so instead of building sidewalks why don't we repair these streets 01:09:43.360 --> 01:09:47.680 because the new neighborhoods don't just actually need sidewalks 01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:53.600 i'm not sure i'm following where you're going if you're asking do you want to address that 01:09:53.600 --> 01:10:01.200 so the uh so the original dollar amount that we had for the street rehab program 01:10:01.200 --> 01:10:04.880 when we started the committee was 35 million dollars so we've we've increased that to 70 01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:08.240 million dollars and that was a result of the previous meeting where we said we want to make 01:10:08.240 --> 01:10:15.680 sure we get everything below the 20 oci for the bond for the street quality plus the neighborhoods 01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:22.880 that were specified as far as the discussion between sidewalks and the street rehab program 01:10:22.880 --> 01:10:27.280 i think that's a discussion for the committee to have as you start talking about prioritizations 01:10:27.280 --> 01:10:32.880 and and what the ultimate uh recommendation for the bond program is and not to go back but 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:38.400 the young man that came up here first that mentioned that he's in a rural area and about 01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:46.240 adding the streets out there if it's not a lot of traffic out there why aren't why are we repairing 01:10:46.240 --> 01:10:51.280 and making making streets wider out there in that area when we have streets here that need to be 01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:58.000 repaired there are quite a few reasons for that it's the growth of the community it's where we're 01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:04.160 already seeing a lot of traffic but there's also the funding ability to grab to be able to get 01:11:04.160 --> 01:11:09.360 funds from other resources to help us make that happen so the 36 million we're actually identifying 01:11:09.360 --> 01:11:16.000 here resolves a tragic scenario that has occurred multiple times over over the last 30 years multiple 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:22.080 fatalities multiple accidents they recur that occur annually at the intersection just east of 01:11:22.080 --> 01:11:30.080 the intersection of um let me call it of 1830 and hickory creek i mean most everybody i believe saw 01:11:30.080 --> 01:11:36.160 the the news earlier this year and it's it's this segment of hickory creek road that comes to 1830 01:11:36.160 --> 01:11:40.640 there is a significant amount of traffic that travels that way on a daily basis as they commute 01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:45.120 to work and then come home as well as trying to get over to the high school on one side and multiple 01:11:45.120 --> 01:11:50.640 elementary schools in the area it's an area that is growing there's multiple development 01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:55.040 multiple developments coming into this area they're actively coming in they're 01:11:55.040 --> 01:12:00.640 coming to council very soon or they are under construction in the area immediately to the north 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:08.080 the 36 million we're asking for now that would be in the bond would even if nobody else threw extra 01:12:08.080 --> 01:12:14.560 money into the kitty to make this thing go further it would construct three lanes brand new with the 01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:21.440 bridge all the way over to 1830 and resolve a current safety concern as well as improve the 01:12:21.440 --> 01:12:25.440 capacity and volume in the area so people can get back and forth quicker and safer 01:12:25.440 --> 01:12:32.000 so that that resolves that but it also unlocks a bunch of funding potential from other entities 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:36.720 that help us go further with those dollars now instead of waiting until they got super expensive 01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:45.440 down the road i know i brought this up previously but everyone in southeast didn't just like everyone 01:12:45.440 --> 01:12:53.120 else pay taxes southeast didn't didn't get their streets repaired or started working on them until 01:12:53.120 --> 01:13:01.280 the late 60s early 70s but was paying taxes this whole time right so due to the point that we were 01:13:01.280 --> 01:13:10.240 paying taxes are we getting that refunded saw that smile sorry no what one of the struggles we have 01:13:10.240 --> 01:13:15.280 throughout the city didn't because the streets maintenance program was neglected across the city 01:13:15.280 --> 01:13:22.400 for so long that taxes still over time weren't keeping pace because of the way they were diverted 01:13:22.400 --> 01:13:28.720 and i can't answer the reasons why i don't know who or what groups made those decisions 01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:34.000 i can only tell you where we're planning to go right now and that's a recognition that not just 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:40.240 because not just because there's an underserved put a portion of the city that infrastructure is 01:13:40.240 --> 01:13:45.120 old it needs to be replaced just like we have a lot of aging infrastructure throughout the city 01:13:45.120 --> 01:13:48.880 and it is one of the areas that needs the most attention right now that's why it is one of the 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:55.040 prime candidates and has been from the very start of the discussion for this program for this bond 01:13:55.040 --> 01:14:01.280 program was to have this segment of town be in this bond program it was a prime focus here 01:14:01.280 --> 01:14:06.480 i have a lot of people that have voiced their concerns about due to the fact that we are in 01:14:06.480 --> 01:14:12.400 southeast denton we're across the tracks that we forgot about no one cares because we are in 01:14:12.400 --> 01:14:18.720 southeast denton so okay let's just patch this up and they'll be happy and let's leave them alone 01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:26.880 so that's how they're it's going way back so that's why it's a big concern southeast is a 01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:32.080 real concern it's like you know we pay taxes like everyone else and now you're telling out of 70 01:14:32.080 --> 01:14:38.720 million we're only getting 11 million when taxes have been paid bonds have been done previously 01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:46.400 and streets need to be repaired we're been without sidewalks okay if get sidewalks fine if not fine 01:14:46.400 --> 01:14:52.080 but the streets do need to be repaired half the time if you pass a car in one of the streets in 01:14:52.080 --> 01:15:00.480 southeast denton you have to pull over to the side so one car can go by so that's why my concern is 01:15:00.480 --> 01:15:05.840 we're worried about these new areas about having sidewalks and all of this what about the areas we 01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:12.560 have now well and that is where the 70 million is focused on these roadways is on all of these areas 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:18.000 because it southeast end is an area of town there are a lot of other areas in town that also have 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:23.120 aging infrastructure and they fall into that same category that's a neglect that was prior to me 01:15:23.120 --> 01:15:29.280 prior to you i mean there was a neglect that was there and how do we start making traction somewhere 01:15:29.280 --> 01:15:35.280 we have to start at some point that's where we are today previous bond packages didn't even 01:15:35.280 --> 01:15:39.440 begin to approach 70 million dollars on the transportation side when it came to just these 01:15:39.440 --> 01:15:43.680 roadways neighborhood streets the local streets this is the first time i've ever seen the city 01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:49.280 of denton actually go into 70 million dollars targeted to those streets and that is absolutely 01:15:49.280 --> 01:15:55.520 what the conversation is for you all is as we prioritize this where do you see the priorities 01:15:55.520 --> 01:16:02.240 where do you as a body want to go because i agree there are so many places to start where do you pick 01:16:03.680 --> 01:16:09.920 you know you're looking at a program here that would engage full reconstruction of the streets 01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:15.040 that really are just like anywhere else in town really are in bad shape and need to be completely 01:16:15.040 --> 01:16:20.160 reconstructed and that includes the water the wastewater the drainage everything and that's 01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:24.000 what you're seeing here is if you look at the numbers that we were putting together 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:37.200 these numbers here reflect a complete reconstruction of infrastructure within 01:16:37.200 --> 01:16:41.680 that entire neighborhood there are three other neighborhoods that we're also targeting to go 01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:47.280 into this bond program and then every other street within the city that's 20 oci or less that's in 01:16:47.280 --> 01:16:52.080 that 70 million dollar number for just the streets but there's other funding sources the water 01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:57.360 revenue funds wastewater revenue funds that help bolster that number through other ways so the total 01:16:57.360 --> 01:17:02.640 expense when it comes to infrastructure in these areas has greatly increased beyond just the 10 or 01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:06.880 11 million dollars to the roadway because that's what it costs to rebuild the road the total 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:13.600 investment into southeast denton and other places is a much bigger number so southeast denton goes 01:17:13.600 --> 01:17:20.880 from 11.3 million to get sidewalks near the school to put in the roadway reconstruction plus 01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:26.320 maintenance dollars that would go into the entire neighborhood and then you're going to put in 01:17:26.320 --> 01:17:31.680 additional water wastewater revenue to upgrade all the utilities in that area as well it's aging 01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:36.800 just as much as the roadway you're talking about a total expense of 25 to 26 million dollars 01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:44.560 just in that neighborhood if you're asking can we spend more from an engineer's perspective 01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:49.600 i don't see more to be spent not because you couldn't widen roadways you could but if i'm 01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:52.720 rebuilding the current roadways that's what it costs to rebuild them 01:17:55.840 --> 01:18:02.720 you go back to the the one with the all the roads of the yellow and the green and the red 01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:12.960 you're really you're reconstructing close to 15 lane miles in southeast denton yes right for 01:18:14.400 --> 01:18:26.880 can't read that number 8.6 million yes have y'all been to southeast this is my neighborhood yeah 01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:33.680 so my thing of it is some people just drive through there every now and then some of us live 01:18:33.680 --> 01:18:39.040 there right so to go through there every day and you need the same thing every day i've actually 01:18:39.040 --> 01:18:43.680 walked down every street in southeast dent and knocked on several doors asking how they felt 01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:53.040 about the streets and this is why i'm giving the feedback this is what i get i have the elderly i 01:18:53.040 --> 01:18:59.360 have a woman not too far from she's not too far from walmart she lives in the apartment she's in 01:18:59.360 --> 01:19:04.320 an electrical wheelchair there's still a dirt road over there that she has to go down with her 01:19:04.320 --> 01:19:11.920 wheelchair so i'm like hmm wait a minute this this this isn't right so that's why i'm bringing it up 01:19:11.920 --> 01:19:17.680 i'm bringing up the concerns not just for me but from my neighborhood but in for particular 01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:23.440 scenarios like that because we have that in a lot of places in town where we have to go investigate 01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:28.400 is work with the homeowner the property owner and find out what is the condition we have ada 01:19:28.400 --> 01:19:34.240 resources that need to be provided throughout the city they just they're lacking it's it's years of 01:19:34.240 --> 01:19:40.960 not taking care of that infrastructure that we're trying to catch up with now as well as i've got to 01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:45.520 determine how much of where she is right now the particular person you're talking about is 01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:49.840 is it on private property or is it in public property is it something i've got to go acquire 01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:55.200 property is it i don't know without talking to that particular person i don't know and so many 01:19:55.200 --> 01:19:59.360 of those circumstances are just individual conversations and we'd be happy to talk to them 01:19:59.360 --> 01:20:07.040 absolutely no absolutely talk are you sorry for if i make a comment or question 01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:14.080 in previous bond packages we've shown where dollars were being spent by district is that 01:20:14.080 --> 01:20:19.600 something you could bring back next week's meeting sure that way i think would help answer 01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:25.600 some questions yeah the other question i had earlier is could you explain what's going to 01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:31.280 happen to locust and elm because i feel like that's something that we're we're not seeing 01:20:31.280 --> 01:20:38.480 but it's going to have a significant impact on that area of town sure so so locust and elm so 01:20:38.480 --> 01:20:43.520 eagle is down this way on this map and you got locust and elm going north and south we're redoing 01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:49.280 all the utilities in that corridor right now so there's a lot of massive drainage infrastructure 01:20:49.280 --> 01:20:54.960 that has to go in right now and water wastewater infrastructure that is being replaced those items 01:20:54.960 --> 01:21:00.640 are actually under construction now they've just gotten started with the relocation of the franchise 01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:05.280 utilities so we've we've already had a couple of times we've had to close a couple of roadways 01:21:05.280 --> 01:21:12.480 because we found a gas line we didn't know was there so we're working that area ahead of tex dot 01:21:12.480 --> 01:21:16.720 coming in as soon as we relocate those utilities tex dot will come in and they will reconstruct 01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:21.120 elm and locust and they're not just starting going to the downtown area they're going to go 01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:27.040 all the way up to university drive upon completion of that project so we have an add-on to what's 01:21:27.040 --> 01:21:31.760 going on here on the south side of downtown we're also going to be going to the north side for about 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:36.400 90 through the plans on that one where we'll be relocating all the utilities and providing drainage 01:21:36.400 --> 01:21:42.640 infrastructure there with tex dot coming in right behind us as quickly as I can to repave all those 01:21:42.640 --> 01:21:50.240 roadways so utility reconstruction will last into next year roadway will start to get reconstructed 01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:55.280 through probably towards the end of next summer provided that the weather works with us and we're 01:21:55.280 --> 01:22:00.560 not fighting the weather like we have been they'll start repaving locust they'll work north university 01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:05.760 drive about that time we'll finish up utilities on elm and they'll turn around and they'll repave elm 01:22:05.760 --> 01:22:09.600 once both things are done then they will turn both those roads over to the city 01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:16.000 and they will become city roads for us to work with long term currently right now where we are is 01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:20.640 everything we want to do within that right away whether it's parking whether it's sidewalks it's 01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:25.440 drainage infrastructure other utilities we have to work with tex dot and get a permit or special 01:22:25.440 --> 01:22:31.520 permission to be in that area to do work going forward we'll have much greater control over our 01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:38.160 own destiny throughout the core of our town so what are the plans for robertson street robertson 01:22:38.160 --> 01:22:44.000 so you can see several areas on robertson where we've already gone through and taken a look at 01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:49.520 there is a segment that is a full reconstruction what's not on here is because it's a gis map it 01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:54.160 likes to draw from this point to this point the reconstruction of robertson actually extends 01:22:54.160 --> 01:22:58.560 further both directions because that's where utility lines will get torn up so we'll take 01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:02.720 all those utility lines up and then we'll repay that entire roadway rebuild it from bottom up 01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:08.240 and then other parts of robertson where the utilities aren't but the roadway still needs 01:23:08.240 --> 01:23:14.000 that kind of attention we'll do either mill and overlay or we'll also or we'll do the other just 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:19.680 surface treatment so much of what we're doing throughout the city is also reflected in and 01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:25.440 danny knows a lot more than he's engrossed in something but danny has a truck that's 01:23:25.440 --> 01:23:29.360 going to come throughout the entire city of denton later this fall and that vehicle 01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:34.400 assesses the pavement its quality its condition it double checks these ocis that we've presented 01:23:34.400 --> 01:23:39.840 earlier what kind of condition are they in and it is across the city what we're actually going 01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:44.560 to have is more streets than we had from the previous one because there's been so much 01:23:44.560 --> 01:23:49.440 development in the interim since 2015 when the last survey was done so we'll get a chance to 01:23:49.440 --> 01:23:54.960 double check how right we are on where that oci is and it may change some of this some of that 01:23:54.960 --> 01:24:09.200 reconstruction may evolve yes darling would you say that 70 million dollars is this to be david or no 01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:18.640 is is it are we at where you wanted me to look yes oh okay because i'm not seeing it add up to 01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:29.760 70 million it's only like i did um it's only saying 26.1 million so 70 million it encompasses 01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:35.120 the entire city so a few weeks back and i don't know if we still have a map up here okay i don't 01:24:35.120 --> 01:24:44.960 see it uh we showed a map of the entire city and their ocis so that 70 million addresses three 01:24:44.960 --> 01:24:48.960 neighborhoods or four neighborhoods three neighborhoods including southeast denton 01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:55.760 where it's ocis that are greater than 20 because we want to address the entire neighborhood at one 01:24:55.760 --> 01:25:00.400 time instead of what we've done in the past whereas you know we we worked here we worked there we went 01:25:00.400 --> 01:25:03.840 over here and we went down here and we didn't connect the dots in between so now you got 01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:07.920 neighbors who are extremely frustrated that well you were here then you went over here then you 01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:11.120 disappeared for two or three years and now you came back and you're in my front yard again 01:25:11.680 --> 01:25:16.000 what's going on so we're trying to put together a much better program to say if i'm going to be in 01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:20.160 the neighborhood i'm going to do the whole neighborhood at one time all utilities all 01:25:20.160 --> 01:25:25.520 infrastructure done not have to come back but for minor maintenance over the next 30 to 40 years 01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:29.920 so that's the goal that's across the city regardless of where you are 01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:36.800 now the problem we have is is if i just isolate those three neighborhoods that's about 35 million 01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:42.160 dollars worth of roadway work between those three neighborhoods when you expand that to the water 01:25:42.160 --> 01:25:48.960 wastewater infrastructure that almost doubles the cost the entire 70 million is citywide so we've 01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:54.320 isolated three neighborhoods and said okay we're going to do those regardless of what the oci is 01:25:54.320 --> 01:26:01.920 if it tells us if anything from a 45 oci and below tells us that needs to be totally reconstructed 01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:09.040 foundation up so those three neighborhoods would get that and then we would be looking at the 01:26:09.040 --> 01:26:14.160 remainder of the city's roadways that are under a 20 oci which means they're degrading rapidly 01:26:14.160 --> 01:26:20.880 so those roadways across the city would also get that pick and choose kind of methodology that was 01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:25.200 involved in the previous bond programs where we'd go hit this one and go hit that one and do this one 01:26:25.200 --> 01:26:31.120 and just all over the city that's where the other 35 million comes from so across the board we're 01:26:31.120 --> 01:26:37.440 taking care of all of the streets in the city of denton that have an oci of 20 or less and then 01:26:37.440 --> 01:26:41.920 we're targeting these neighborhoods because overall these three neighborhoods are in the worst overall 01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:45.840 condition and doing those three neighbors so we don't have to come back other than maintenance 01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:53.600 we don't have to come back and redo that sooner did you find it you knew the date and everything 01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:56.800 of course you did 01:27:01.120 --> 01:27:12.560 yes okay perfect 01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:21.040 so you can see these one of the options that we presented on the 20th was multiple options 01:27:21.040 --> 01:27:25.440 for how you reconstruct streets throughout the city and how much do you want to go i mean that's 01:27:25.440 --> 01:27:29.760 that's another option that you all have is how much do you want to recommend to council 01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:36.160 that we incorporate into just this segment of the of the roadway pond so one of the options was in 01:27:36.160 --> 01:27:42.160 the past we had done that kind of shotgun approach right we just wherever it was the lowest oci we 01:27:42.160 --> 01:27:45.680 went and did that and cut it off at a dollar amount and that's as far as we're going to go 01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:51.360 and that presented the problems that we're still working through today so staff's recommendation 01:27:51.360 --> 01:27:57.440 was that we go with a more of a hybrid approach between the two whereas that is we took the the 01:27:57.440 --> 01:28:03.680 seven different neighborhoods throughout the city that had the lowest overall oci and then we were 01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:08.960 looking at those to how far could those dollars go so if you did just those seven neighborhoods 01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:14.000 and didn't focus on any other street in the city you're at about 70 million dollars in roadway 01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:20.240 costs for all seven neighborhoods now the problem with that is that neglects a lot of roadways 01:28:20.240 --> 01:28:26.160 throughout the rest of the city that are at a 20 oci and lower some of those are in those more 01:28:26.160 --> 01:28:30.000 rural neighborhoods just on the border of the town some of them are in the older parts of the 01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:35.840 of the city where this roads have just been there for a long time without enough attention so those 01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:41.600 roadways would get neglected and they would just continue to degrade to the point where it would be 01:28:41.600 --> 01:28:47.120 just that much more expensive to redo those roads five or six years from now when another bond 01:28:47.120 --> 01:28:54.720 program might become the next option where we went with this as a staff was to come back and say 01:28:55.280 --> 01:29:01.040 let's propose a hybrid scenario where we take three neighborhoods or four whatever we could 01:29:01.040 --> 01:29:08.240 really work into a 70 million dollar focus on local streets work those three neighborhoods 01:29:08.240 --> 01:29:15.680 and again we chose those these right these over here these numbers were not by priority of worst 01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:20.080 while they were was just when we drew the map somebody said that's one two three and that's 01:29:20.080 --> 01:29:25.600 where it came from so if you actually looked at the overall ocis these three were the lowest ocis 01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:34.160 in it as far as a neighborhood overall oci then when you combine that with the 20 and under oci 01:29:34.160 --> 01:29:39.840 street so those roads that have a health score of 20 or less that would round out to another 01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:47.520 30 million dollars so between these three we got to 70 million dollars in total expenses to read 01:29:47.520 --> 01:29:54.000 to read reconstruct those roadways so the 70 million for just southeast end you're right it 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:59.680 doesn't equate because it is one component of the entire city that extends all the way out to its 01:29:59.680 --> 01:30:06.240 city limits thanks you know probably need that slide later on 01:30:06.240 --> 01:30:14.240 all right any other comments questions on southeast end 01:30:16.880 --> 01:30:18.240 okay do we all move on to mckinney 01:30:18.240 --> 01:30:23.680 thanks i appreciate that 01:30:23.680 --> 01:30:32.800 so last meeting we had some questions about mckinney and what it would cost to extend mckinney even 01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:40.400 further into the downtown area which we had also addressed we're working everything east of loop 288 01:30:40.400 --> 01:30:46.400 because that's where the dollars we have currently funded we can reconstruct that piece of mckinney 01:30:46.400 --> 01:30:52.480 with the dollars available the problem that we have is when you bring loop 280 in 288 or go from 01:30:52.480 --> 01:30:59.200 loop 288 all the way over to woodrow the cost to rebuild that roadway today if we had dollars today 01:30:59.200 --> 01:31:06.720 would be roughly 22 million just in construction for that roadway now when i show this 53 million 01:31:06.720 --> 01:31:11.680 dollar number down here that's a lot of other things thrown into it that's an assumption that 01:31:11.680 --> 01:31:16.320 we wouldn't get to the constraint the actual construction of that for another 42 months if you 01:31:16.320 --> 01:31:22.560 gave me the dollars today so we've inflated that one percent per month over 42 months if you roll 01:31:22.560 --> 01:31:28.000 that back let's say i got construction i got construction dollars or approval to go to 01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:32.480 construction next year because it would take me at least a year to acquire all the rightaways at a 01:31:32.480 --> 01:31:36.720 minimum all the properties that we would need to get the right away full width all the way to woodrow 01:31:37.280 --> 01:31:42.720 it would take me a year at a minimum i'm going to add roughly three million dollars to that overall 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:50.320 construction cost is that if you look at an annual rate one percent per month localized in the economy 01:31:50.320 --> 01:31:55.600 again we kind of talked about that before the inflational rate locally is roughly one percent 01:31:55.600 --> 01:32:02.000 per month that equates out to 12 and a half to 12.7 percent annually in total growth of the 01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:08.000 construction cost on just a one-year basis so one year out i'd be looking at adding roughly three 01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:14.240 million dollars to that construction cost then you add in the right away acquisition cost of about 01:32:14.240 --> 01:32:18.720 six million dollars that's an estimated cost there's nothing more than us having taken a good 01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:25.680 estimated you know a pretty good educated guess at it that's where we see that right away expense 01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:31.920 going once you start rolling in design costs as well as other factors that go into it staff time 01:32:32.320 --> 01:32:39.120 the variety of other expenses that go into just delivering a project qaqc survey geotech all the 01:32:39.120 --> 01:32:45.120 other items that's where you come up with roughly a 53 million dollar price tag to get this particular 01:32:45.120 --> 01:32:55.520 roadway in from loop 288 over to woodrow lane now there are some options yes ma'am so 01:32:59.120 --> 01:33:06.240 sorry i didn't realize i sounded so bad so in general what you're seeing here is 01:33:06.240 --> 01:33:11.120 what we'll still work to try to get additional funding from cog or some other players to make 01:33:11.120 --> 01:33:16.640 this work part of what we're also up against is when we go to the regional transportation council 01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:22.720 which is a council a subcommittee basically the national of the north central texas council of 01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:27.920 governments our metropolitan planning organization they they govern a lot of funding sources and 01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:33.120 avenues to funding that's where we're getting money for hickory creek for bonnie bray several 01:33:33.120 --> 01:33:38.080 other projects that we currently have like mayhill uh the southern end of bonnie bray mckinney right 01:33:38.080 --> 01:33:44.000 now they all funded those projects part of where their concern is is until you come up with a plan 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:48.400 and you give me a timeline to actually require the right away because that's not going to be 01:33:48.400 --> 01:33:51.120 something they're going to throw money in for there'd be something we would have to find 01:33:51.120 --> 01:33:56.640 when you have all those items lined up and i can see your path to completion 01:33:56.640 --> 01:34:01.520 then i might consider it but they're also waiting to see if we actually do what we say we're going 01:34:01.520 --> 01:34:08.880 to do on mckinney east of loop 288 because east of loop 288 they were they were we were getting 01:34:08.880 --> 01:34:13.200 close to the point where they were going to pull that funding back and they had the authority to 01:34:13.200 --> 01:34:19.680 do that there was a 10-year window for those dollars to be spent on construction and we were 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:24.800 right up against that window all the way up to was it september of this year so september of this 01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:32.080 year so we we beat that and started construction earlier this year but right now what there's what 01:34:32.080 --> 01:34:37.120 we're hearing just the rumblings in the background is i want to see you get this done before you start 01:34:37.120 --> 01:34:40.880 coming and asking me for more money out here they're not saying they won't but before they 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:45.360 commit to that because this is all the other cities in the north central texas area that are 01:34:45.360 --> 01:34:51.120 a member of cog those groups are the same groups we got to go to bat with other folks to get the 01:34:51.120 --> 01:34:56.000 this kind of funding so we're competing with them they also have to be able to say because each city 01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:02.240 or large area because some areas compromise comprise multiple cities just because their 01:35:02.240 --> 01:35:08.080 communities are smaller they have a vote at the table on this council and they get to steer where 01:35:08.080 --> 01:35:14.080 that money goes so we definitely want to have projects that are valid ready to go so that we 01:35:14.080 --> 01:35:19.760 stand up against everybody else so that's where we are with mckinney as we look for where we go in 01:35:19.760 --> 01:35:24.400 the future it's absolutely on the radar we don't know that right now is where we can actually 01:35:24.400 --> 01:35:27.200 capitalize on getting those dollars to go as far as we can 01:35:27.200 --> 01:35:39.360 any questions i think my only question i guess would be um i did believe that state had most of 01:35:39.360 --> 01:35:50.000 right away for a lot of that in their acquisition you say this is the ls e are worse so it's as far 01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:54.000 as all the streets you brought to our attention is this the worst one because it seems like you've 01:35:54.000 --> 01:36:00.480 been talking these a lot this is me these are what our current estimates are at the intersections 01:36:00.480 --> 01:36:06.480 yeah so at the ends of the roadway where i basically have to construct my staff hates me 01:36:06.480 --> 01:36:09.760 hearing me say this especially the traffic engineers we're constructing parking lots to 01:36:09.760 --> 01:36:16.320 handle the traffic signal so i put it on red you got a parking somewhere but when you get to that 01:36:16.320 --> 01:36:21.520 point i'm at a level of service e throughout this quarter but especially at the two signals on both 01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:27.440 ends so a lot of that is the functionality of what the actual intersection is doing so part of these 01:36:27.440 --> 01:36:31.520 projects would be upgrading the intersection significantly to the point where we don't have 01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:39.680 that control problem okay but it is the worst street you presented to us as far as the intersections 01:36:39.680 --> 01:36:44.720 involves operationally yes i wanted to clarify that because that's what i've been saying this 01:36:44.720 --> 01:36:49.120 whole time and that's why i was really concerned that you didn't want to bring that to the committee 01:36:49.120 --> 01:36:55.920 no it was no it wasn't that i mean the the reality of that roadway is the funding constraints 01:36:55.920 --> 01:37:00.160 are a little tighter on that roadway than what we could get for other places because the other 01:37:00.160 --> 01:37:06.080 places they have a regional connection that really speaks to the regional transportation council 01:37:06.080 --> 01:37:11.200 where they're very interested in putting that that same amount of dollars they'll go a lot 01:37:11.200 --> 01:37:16.480 further with it because there is that impact and when you're having to work with multiple other 01:37:16.480 --> 01:37:21.360 cities and communities and agencies that are tied into that same council and they have a vote 01:37:21.360 --> 01:37:27.120 it's where is that council really going to let us go one of the issues that we have here with this 01:37:27.120 --> 01:37:35.280 roadway is you have constraints at the intersections today the limit for future capacity i have to get 01:37:35.280 --> 01:37:39.360 into it with pre-tem i'm not going to make a presumption but its growth is is not the same 01:37:39.360 --> 01:37:43.840 as what you're going to see down south so just because we see a level of service d today does 01:37:43.840 --> 01:37:48.560 not mean that's what we're going to see 20 years from now 10 years from now i mean you have a lot 01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:54.400 of development coming so we can choose to do one of two things we can react to the realities of today 01:37:55.360 --> 01:37:58.560 and then we hear a lot of what we're hearing today in the public which is there's a lot of 01:37:58.560 --> 01:38:03.760 construction going on and you're tearing up my roadway i'm having to fight around that construction 01:38:03.760 --> 01:38:10.720 or we can elect to look forward as strategically as possible and get ahead of it when now i don't have 01:38:10.720 --> 01:38:17.200 the same constraint but i can see what's coming and that's what we see in these areas hickory creek 01:38:17.200 --> 01:38:22.400 one of the biggest issues you have with hickory creek is when that road is widened then concerns 01:38:22.400 --> 01:38:27.200 we heard some concerns tonight about ryan and hobson some other roadways it allows those people 01:38:27.200 --> 01:38:32.560 who are absolutely using those roadways to go north to make a connection to come back south 01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:37.760 they they go straight south to hickory creek and they go to the sides and do where they need to go 01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:43.360 that's where we see the long-term benefit of that roadway versus a mckinney that's fairly landlocked 01:38:43.360 --> 01:38:46.400 a lot of the development already is what it is 01:38:49.280 --> 01:38:54.960 i mean and i agree and disagree but there's there's a lot of land south of mckinney that's 01:38:54.960 --> 01:38:58.640 going to be developed and there's a huge apartment complex going on probably i have to have an 01:38:58.640 --> 01:39:06.800 intersection it's kind of signal light there but it's there's just state actually has it designed 01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:11.680 to be six lanes so that was why i'm surprised the city is backing it down a lot of the reasons why 01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:15.840 the state had that designed at six lanes is there were some other things that were also considering 01:39:15.840 --> 01:39:20.240 your long-term planning they didn't have a expanded mayhill when they were looking at 01:39:20.240 --> 01:39:25.920 it as a six lane facility they had a lot of other things plugged in that were just hey this is what 01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:30.800 it is and it's not going to get any bigger there's no other connections coming that was what their 01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:36.400 plan was at the time now even they look at go back and relook at this thing periodically to make sure 01:39:36.400 --> 01:39:40.960 that hey long-term projections change i mean roadways that we thought years ago would have needed 01:39:40.960 --> 01:39:45.680 to be six lanes you look at it now and it really needs to be two to three lanes other roadways 01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:52.160 that we thought long term would be two lanes they're now needing to be today six lanes so is 01:39:52.160 --> 01:39:58.000 this a project that you are recommending beyond a bond five years from now is that what you're 01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:05.120 where we are right now yes and you're hoping by then you'll have but i i will tell you this that 01:40:05.120 --> 01:40:13.440 is also the that is what this body is for if if you guys want to push that into this mix then 01:40:13.440 --> 01:40:18.400 absolutely that's a recommendation you can make i agree it's a roadway that at some point 01:40:18.400 --> 01:40:24.080 absolutely needs to be done and that's something that you can recommend as a body to change into 01:40:24.080 --> 01:40:32.480 this mix of priorities i don't think i have any questions thank you yeah i have a question so how 01:40:32.480 --> 01:40:37.280 long is the construction of the east side of the thing going to take and is there anything we could 01:40:37.280 --> 01:40:43.680 do in this bond package that doesn't fully fund it but maybe get it ready for you know however 01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:50.960 long it takes to finish the east side or we can make a serious push to or can you pull the 01:40:50.960 --> 01:40:58.320 microphones here say it again so your question my question was twofold how long is the construction 01:40:58.320 --> 01:41:05.760 green light there it is how long is the construction on the east side of mckinney going to take 01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:12.800 and is there anything that we can do that would make us in a better position to petition the cog 01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:18.640 whenever that is complete in this bond without fully funding it so that that's an ongoing concern 01:41:18.640 --> 01:41:25.360 that we have you know some of the concerns i've heard about how would you fund growth to the south 01:41:25.360 --> 01:41:31.360 of mckinney well some of that would come back through other avenues whether it's sir uh roadway 01:41:31.360 --> 01:41:36.800 impact fees that would be required by the development to pay that as well as a perimeter 01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:41.440 street requirement the city currently has that they provide the perimeter streets or at least 01:41:41.440 --> 01:41:45.920 half of the perimeter streets when they put in their development along with other things we are 01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:51.200 currently designing 30 up to 30 percent designed that mckinney street all the way at the carol 01:41:51.200 --> 01:41:56.320 boulevard well beyond woodrow just for exactly what you're talking about when those opportunities 01:41:56.320 --> 01:42:00.880 present to be able to capitalize on those as quickly as possible there are some other avenues 01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:05.360 that we're we're looking at as well which would be federal funding some other projects that would 01:42:05.360 --> 01:42:11.200 help to push this along even further so we're looking at all of our options i don't want to 01:42:11.200 --> 01:42:17.840 sit on this project for five years absolutely not but the reality is we've got to explore all of our 01:42:17.840 --> 01:42:23.520 options and right now the outlook is we could get more funding quicker by not going the route 01:42:23.520 --> 01:42:29.440 of rtr funds or some of the other funds that would commit itself we'd be looking at some federal 01:42:29.440 --> 01:42:34.400 dollars and some other avenues plus allowing the development community to pay their way into this 01:42:34.400 --> 01:42:39.600 so we are doing the design work now and i answer your first question about the length of time that 01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:44.720 east the east half or the east side of mckinney is going to be under construction or under 01:42:44.720 --> 01:42:50.160 construction now you're looking at roughly two years of construction until it's complete thank you 01:42:52.720 --> 01:43:03.200 diane when we had a chat at paul's town hall i asked what it would take 01:43:03.200 --> 01:43:11.280 for five years and you said 300 million so going forward to the next five years if we if we fund 01:43:11.280 --> 01:43:16.960 this very worthy project in with our bond how many more bonds is the city going to have to present 01:43:16.960 --> 01:43:21.680 uh going forward five years are we going to have to do one every year do you think 01:43:22.400 --> 01:43:27.920 we can't i mean just talk to david about that one he's he's the finance guy i just know how 01:43:27.920 --> 01:43:36.320 to spend it he's the one who finds the money i just spend it so no i'm saying that facetiously 01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:40.720 you know i'm very cognizant i live here and i pay taxes here as well so i'm very cognizant about 01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:47.040 where those dollars go one of the concerns that we have going forward is is it's really up to 01:43:47.040 --> 01:43:53.280 the citizens of dentin how far do you want to go which is why i'm asking so so if we if we could 01:43:53.280 --> 01:43:59.520 put it into a pretty package with a bow because so far i have not heard how much our taxes would go 01:43:59.520 --> 01:44:07.680 up a year my my my weird little attorney friend who loves numbers said oh let me crunch it and 01:44:07.680 --> 01:44:17.680 so we're looking at maybe 60 to 80 right so um i think this might be the easiest way to show it 01:44:17.680 --> 01:44:25.360 so right now we're looking at a four cent uh four cents max debt rate that service tax rate 01:44:25.360 --> 01:44:30.160 increase on a hundred thousand dollar home that's forty dollars a year so a two hundred thousand 01:44:30.160 --> 01:44:34.960 dollar home is eighty dollars a year our average home close to two hundred fifty thousand dollars 01:44:34.960 --> 01:44:40.320 would be you know a hundred dollars a year yeah which which is almost nothing you know in the 01:44:40.320 --> 01:44:46.560 grand scheme oh nobody nobody be annoyed that i just said that by the way because where i'm going 01:44:46.560 --> 01:44:53.600 is i've been here 10 years i've been in denton county 30 years and i know the numbers for the 01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:59.520 county because of certain experiences i had last year so i know what the projected growth is here 01:45:00.160 --> 01:45:06.960 and and it's it's going to come whether whether we like it or not so this isn't the only 01:45:06.960 --> 01:45:11.840 other project you have that you'd like to have rolled in to this bond correct 01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:21.040 it's okay time from an engineer's perspective i would love to go build all of it there you go 01:45:21.040 --> 01:45:27.280 that's what i want 100 i would love to go do it tomorrow the realities of both the marketplace 01:45:27.280 --> 01:45:32.720 the availability of contractors do limit us i know but if you're asking what i would just love to do 01:45:32.720 --> 01:45:38.400 and i had my wish yes i'd love to go build it all today okay so i'm i'm going to take it from a to 01:45:38.400 --> 01:45:44.720 z then okay so what would it what would it take to present a bond package to the citizens of denton 01:45:44.720 --> 01:45:53.200 that would fix our roads bring in lighting i know the crime stats for mayhill now right to protect 01:45:53.200 --> 01:45:59.360 the citizens of denton ensure their quality of life we're the ones paying the taxes for now 01:45:59.360 --> 01:46:05.840 and the future tell me how to do it that's your job well that's david's job 01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:17.520 you know i mean i ultimately that's gonna the conversation on what the total amount of debt 01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:21.200 that the committee is comfortable with is going to be a conversation for the committee to have 01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:25.840 obviously the charge from the city council was to come forward with a 210 million dollar 01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:32.800 program they the the starting point for that was to say what what number can we have to stay under 01:46:32.800 --> 01:46:38.960 our total tax rate so you know if the desire from the committee was to go over up to whatever number 01:46:38.960 --> 01:46:44.800 ultimately you want to go up to there would just be the increase over our total tax rate and then 01:46:44.800 --> 01:46:49.760 the increase over the debt service tax rate but i will point out you know as even when we talk 01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:54.240 about a four percent tax rate increase as i mentioned earlier that doesn't mean every 01:46:54.240 --> 01:46:58.400 single year of the program it's going to be a four percent four cent tax rate increase that's just 01:46:58.400 --> 01:47:03.520 at some at one point during one year based on our current assumptions we may get up to that point 01:47:03.520 --> 01:47:08.960 so just as a caveat to say it's not like you're going to have the hundred dollars every single 01:47:08.960 --> 01:47:14.080 year of the program but as far as the total high that we're looking at the total bucket of dollars 01:47:14.080 --> 01:47:18.880 that's ultimately just a level of of first with the committee for your recommendation to council 01:47:18.880 --> 01:47:24.480 of what how how large you want to go and council's ultimate decision on what is on the election and 01:47:24.480 --> 01:47:29.280 then up to the voters on if they're comfortable with going up to that amount in the ensuing tax 01:47:29.280 --> 01:47:35.040 rate that would be required i've also um i'll get with you todd i've also found some grants 01:47:35.040 --> 01:47:40.560 that i'll bet you haven't looked at yet okay thank you so much 01:47:43.440 --> 01:47:52.320 okay any more discussion on uh mckinney or southeast denton i just have one question for 01:47:52.320 --> 01:47:58.240 todd on mckinney what is it about that section of and this is maybe just a stupid question but 01:47:58.240 --> 01:48:05.040 that section of mckinney between the loop and woodrow that makes it potentially eligible for 01:48:05.040 --> 01:48:12.400 cog money how does it meet parameters that well and that's you've hit on a challenge there for us 01:48:12.400 --> 01:48:18.800 to get to woodrow it has to fall into certain specific categories because it's not tying into 01:48:18.800 --> 01:48:23.040 a state road from a state road so that's where we've been pushing it all the way over to element 01:48:23.040 --> 01:48:28.240 locus because right now there's still state roads which would be an even bigger number than what 01:48:28.240 --> 01:48:34.080 you're seeing here so that's the other challenge is those avenues that we'd be looking at funding 01:48:34.080 --> 01:48:39.840 from the cog would be more in the way of active transportation some of the sidewalk more sidewalk 01:48:39.840 --> 01:48:44.080 context-sensitive grants that are out there and it would be cobbling a lot of things together to 01:48:44.080 --> 01:48:49.920 make it work does that answer your question i was wondering is if i mean if it went on over 01:48:49.920 --> 01:48:56.960 to element locus you could right see it and that's why we're designing it what's the timeline there 01:48:56.960 --> 01:49:04.640 would we have taken possession of those two roads before that's the challenge this cog 01:49:04.640 --> 01:49:10.080 yes most likely yes because at the pace we're going with them and locust we should have those 01:49:10.080 --> 01:49:14.720 reconstructed in the next two two and a half years about the same time we'd be ready to go to construction 01:49:14.720 --> 01:49:23.200 i'll render grants on that refund right 01:49:24.800 --> 01:49:40.480 free you just brought up a point about five years three years whatever it's going to be 01:49:40.480 --> 01:49:46.800 the whole push to get cogs may be you know a lost cause at that point so we've 01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:52.400 waited for nothing it costs an increase but when you drive down that road i all the time 01:49:52.400 --> 01:49:58.720 i always see bicyclists uh people walking and they don't have sidewalks on most of that street 01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:02.800 true they're on the shoulders and that's that's the challenge for a cog when you're trying to get 01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:09.280 that kind of money it needs to be connected and it's that whole area has for the cog to really 01:50:09.280 --> 01:50:15.520 buy into putting that kind of money on it onto a project it has to have been designed which is 01:50:15.520 --> 01:50:21.920 really my reasoning for saying we shouldn't wait for cogs because by the time you do that we will 01:50:21.920 --> 01:50:26.560 no longer have 77 so there won't be a connection and cogs probably won't do it so i mean it's 01:50:26.560 --> 01:50:31.440 for me this section between woodrow and luke 28 is really the important section 01:50:31.440 --> 01:50:36.560 the other section the city's been putting in sidewalks upgrading the sides i mean i remember 01:50:36.560 --> 01:50:41.280 we did that four or five years ago so now there's some nice sidewalks over there so i mean it's it's 01:50:41.280 --> 01:50:47.360 you know could still be improved of course like everything but the really major sections between 01:50:47.360 --> 01:50:55.200 woodrow and 288 that's the dangerous part um and i would really suggest beyond this one well 01:50:55.200 --> 01:51:05.520 that's a topic for the next item on the agenda so david and it will move on to item 2c which is 01:51:05.520 --> 01:51:13.360 report receive report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding um 2019 bond program 01:51:13.360 --> 01:51:24.640 prioritization so this agenda item is is really an offshoot of the conversation that you just had 01:51:24.640 --> 01:51:30.400 uh just to give give the committee the first your first opportunity to discuss amongst yourself 01:51:30.400 --> 01:51:37.120 where you how you prioritize the project um you know in advance of us of the discussion of what 01:51:37.120 --> 01:51:42.400 is where's the line of what's above the line of a little line uh for whatever the total funding 01:51:42.400 --> 01:51:49.680 amount is so that's the intent of this of this item prior obviously prior to the meeting today 01:51:49.680 --> 01:51:56.160 i sent out a um a survey an online survey to everyone to complete um the the intent of that 01:51:56.160 --> 01:52:03.600 survey was was nothing more than to have to have the following slide that gives everyone a baseline 01:52:03.600 --> 01:52:09.680 for your discussion it was only meant to enhance your discussion nothing final about the online 01:52:09.680 --> 01:52:16.240 survey um so we have the results of the survey on the next slide 15 of the 19 members completed 01:52:16.240 --> 01:52:23.200 the survey as of uh just before the meeting today and obviously the aggregate results of the survey 01:52:23.200 --> 01:52:28.480 are next we'll make one note uh the only of dollar amount essentially that's not included on the 01:52:28.480 --> 01:52:34.080 survey was public art uh you know ultimately for the recommendation to council you discussed public 01:52:34.080 --> 01:52:39.440 art last time that will be a factor in the total amount dollar amount that we look toward so public 01:52:39.440 --> 01:52:43.600 art is a consideration to take into account as you're considering all the other projects 01:52:43.600 --> 01:52:49.200 but that wasn't on the survey that was sent out can i ask on the public art 01:52:49.200 --> 01:52:57.280 we said to stay at two percent and our other alternative is no public art or four percent right 01:52:57.280 --> 01:53:03.280 those are or or we or four percent we also said you can change the um we could recommend changes 01:53:03.280 --> 01:53:13.280 to the policy so that really opens up some other options so here are the results of the survey i 01:53:13.280 --> 01:53:18.160 just want to emphasize the 15 of the 19 this is not the entire committee that that took the survey 01:53:18.160 --> 01:53:25.280 but um and again just intended to to to enhance your conversation today but you can see the top 01:53:25.280 --> 01:53:29.360 you know five or six items are the ones that we've been discussing quite a bit uh police station 01:53:29.360 --> 01:53:34.240 renovation number one fire station eight number two uh then the substation and then you can see 01:53:34.240 --> 01:53:40.240 the street rehab program uh was the fourth uh highest ranked amongst the committee um and i 01:53:40.240 --> 01:53:44.880 think as we've had the discussions we've seen the importance importance of that and bonny bray and 01:53:44.880 --> 01:53:51.040 hickory creek following um and you can see the rest of the items there so again this was um just 01:53:51.040 --> 01:53:56.960 just an aggregate of the of those who took the survey and um hopefully will help your your 01:53:56.960 --> 01:54:01.840 prioritization conversation uh i'll kind of open it up to the committee amongst yourself have the 01:54:01.840 --> 01:54:06.320 discussion obviously we're available for any questions i was just wondering how you got you 01:54:06.320 --> 01:54:12.800 know the numbers are like everybody's number one got a certain number of yeah yeah it was essentially 01:54:12.800 --> 01:54:17.840 the the basic survey monkey kind of algorithm and number one got a certain number of points number 01:54:17.840 --> 01:54:21.440 two got a certain number of points and then there were aggregate points and then it was ranked on 01:54:21.440 --> 01:54:29.760 this point doesn't add up to 15 in any way right yeah yeah so one question i have for the committee 01:54:29.760 --> 01:54:38.640 is this these survey results are based on the previous known estimates for the police station 01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:45.840 renovation and police substation so i think one of the questions we have to ask ourselves knowing 01:54:45.840 --> 01:54:53.680 what we know today that's new information what are your thoughts on how does that impact the 01:54:53.680 --> 01:55:04.240 this uh prioritization with these results not not for me that's it you just i agree with you 01:55:04.240 --> 01:55:12.960 i do i i'm in favor of the police station and the fire department only though i don't know 01:55:12.960 --> 01:55:18.880 i don't know i just can't do it because i can't see a breakdown for the street rehab program to 01:55:18.880 --> 01:55:26.800 justify body ray gray and history hickory creek again they're getting more money poured into those 01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:34.480 streets than everybody else i just i'm not in favor or ryan i don't get it okay um i have a question 01:55:35.200 --> 01:55:46.800 hickory creek is receiving city funds county funds state funds so if the city does not fund 01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:54.480 hickory creek creek they've lost everything else right so and is it true for bonnie bray as well 01:55:54.480 --> 01:56:02.720 yes correct so those two and queen i understand where you're coming from with that but if not 01:56:03.280 --> 01:56:13.280 funding means that we're losing other funding then that's not good for our city but it shouldn't have 01:56:13.280 --> 01:56:18.400 been in the first place i don't know what you mean but it shouldn't be in the first place this is 01:56:18.400 --> 01:56:25.280 three different governmental bodies are deciding local governments municipality local government 01:56:25.280 --> 01:56:31.280 county and state government but they're the city's requesting help from these different governments 01:56:32.080 --> 01:56:38.080 to get money and what they should have been trying to do is give money for the underserved 01:56:38.080 --> 01:56:44.720 they would have definitely poured out more money no the county would not have poured out money for 01:56:44.720 --> 01:56:51.040 a city in no for a city straight there are 44 cities in denton county and every single one of 01:56:51.040 --> 01:56:58.400 them would have been asking for it hickory creek road was given out for a particular need that was 01:56:58.400 --> 01:57:04.400 seen as both municipal and county and that was due to county commissioner hugh colman 01:57:04.400 --> 01:57:11.920 that was his road money that he put in because of the deaths that occurred on hickory creek 01:57:11.920 --> 01:57:18.400 and you can go back and look at the discussions on commissioner's court in order to understand 01:57:18.400 --> 01:57:24.560 why that one in particular now bonnie bray that's a whole other there's a whole lot of other reasons 01:57:24.560 --> 01:57:31.680 by the way that road construction is interrupting my life right now as i'm trying to get from my 01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:38.560 house to presbyterian but i'm doing it but it works it's that circle that they're putting in 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:46.960 it's a whole lot more that's going on there but one of the things that i think we need to keep in 01:57:46.960 --> 01:57:56.960 mind is all the other monies that are brought in because the city is considering or is in the 01:57:56.960 --> 01:58:04.720 process of with these roads and as a committee we need to remember that well it's it's letting you 01:58:04.720 --> 01:58:13.040 leverage the dollars so you if you can spend 27 million and get 111 million dollars in roads 01:58:13.760 --> 01:58:19.920 that's pretty good leverage of your money and then that's kind of what pushes those up 01:58:19.920 --> 01:58:29.680 right absolutely so i i think this is really very helpful to our work um and uh what i would love to 01:58:29.680 --> 01:58:37.600 see uh perhaps for our next meeting is taking this chart assigning the dollar figure for each piece 01:58:37.600 --> 01:58:43.680 with a running total in the next column so that we begin to see where those lines might fall 01:58:43.680 --> 01:58:49.440 i think that will help us get to the decisions that need to be made 01:58:49.440 --> 01:58:58.880 i i do think that in light of the conversation that it is uh earlier that it is appropriate to 01:58:58.880 --> 01:59:06.160 put a below the line uh series of things into this that if we want to put below the line mckinney 01:59:06.160 --> 01:59:12.800 and say okay here's here's 50 million dollars for mckinney that if you want to factor it in this is 01:59:12.800 --> 01:59:18.560 what it's going to take that number to but but we've got we've got a line here that i think we 01:59:18.560 --> 01:59:24.720 want to be looking at and then we ask if there's anything that that we want to to move above the 01:59:24.720 --> 01:59:32.240 line or move below the line we can we can definitely do definitely do that um we need to do it based on 01:59:32.240 --> 01:59:36.480 this on the rankings that we have here or if there's as a result of this good discussion 01:59:36.480 --> 01:59:39.920 anything moves around we can we can do that 01:59:39.920 --> 01:59:46.000 i have a question i wound up going back to the net 2030 plan recently and i was reading through that 01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:52.880 and uh guys it was i have the page written down at page 173 they were suggesting to include the 01:59:52.880 --> 01:59:57.520 cost of regular road maintenance and rehabilitation and estimating the cost of building and widening 01:59:57.520 --> 02:00:02.640 roads can you susan can you move closer to the bike please yes for sure try to say it again 02:00:02.640 --> 02:00:09.680 so what it said on page 173 of the dent 2030 plan it was you know a suggestion 02:00:09.680 --> 02:00:13.840 was to include the cost of regular road maintenance and rehabilitation 02:00:13.840 --> 02:00:18.880 and estimating the cost of building and widening roads is that something that we've been doing 02:00:18.880 --> 02:00:24.640 i didn't miss that did i uh quite uh some conversations of that offline 02:00:28.080 --> 02:00:34.880 so let me make sure i just understand where you're going so if you're asking are we factoring in to 02:00:34.880 --> 02:00:39.680 account that there's an ongoing maintenance piece to every single road that goes into the ground 02:00:39.680 --> 02:00:45.680 yes that there are growth predictions that's a council work session item that we actually had 02:00:45.680 --> 02:00:51.680 last year uh some of what diane was talking about earlier the 300 million dollars we had 02:00:51.680 --> 02:00:57.680 talked to council about was also tied to that as you improve those roadways you would also need to 02:00:57.680 --> 02:01:02.800 increase the roadway maintenance budget on an annual basis from 15 million to 20 to 25 02:01:02.800 --> 02:01:08.400 over time as those roadways were rebuilt and we got to the point where we were only ever dealing 02:01:08.400 --> 02:01:14.720 with 10 of our roads in a reconstructed state instead of 20 to 25 like we are today so that 02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:20.480 300 million would shoot all those roadways to the point where we only have about 20 to 25 percent 02:01:20.480 --> 02:01:24.160 roadways to the point where we only have about 10 percent of our roads that are ever in need of 02:01:24.160 --> 02:01:31.680 reconstruction but it has that associated long-term cost of the overall budget for the street maintenance 02:01:31.680 --> 02:01:36.400 would continue to go up as those roadways come in and then of course as continued development comes 02:01:36.400 --> 02:01:44.480 into place those things have to factor into that equation as well but but maintenance is not part 02:01:44.480 --> 02:01:50.400 of the bond the bond is one time yes it's kind of a separate issue yeah maintenance is really where 02:01:50.400 --> 02:01:55.040 you see the vast majority of those tax dollars go is into the maintenance it's that recurring cost 02:01:55.040 --> 02:02:01.520 year over year whereas the bond dollars are that one time completely overhaul it or fix it that we 02:02:01.520 --> 02:02:07.120 have a a much more robust streets maintenance program like we do currently but we didn't for 02:02:07.120 --> 02:02:16.720 years then your actual expense over time for reconstructing roadways will go down now inflation 02:02:16.720 --> 02:02:21.360 and other things will offset some of that but your overall total reconstruction and a bond package 02:02:21.360 --> 02:02:26.000 would go down if you could hold it in today's dollars at some point you would see more of a 02:02:26.000 --> 02:02:31.840 steady state provided you didn't have continued growth i guess i guess kind of where my concern 02:02:31.840 --> 02:02:37.200 has been is kind of and i know we're behind on fixing up our streets it just almost feels like 02:02:37.200 --> 02:02:43.200 maybe we don't have the money to keep up with what we have so i'm just not sure if we're bringing in 02:02:43.200 --> 02:02:48.400 enough new revenue to pay for you know future maintenance costs so you know yeah we can build 02:02:48.400 --> 02:02:52.560 them but will we be able to maintain them further down the line adding more streets to what already 02:02:52.560 --> 02:02:57.920 looks like a pretty heavy load so the vast majority of our just one thing to consider the vast majority 02:02:57.920 --> 02:03:02.720 of the lane miles that get added are when these residential neighborhoods come into the city so 02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:07.760 brand new neighborhoods build more roadway than we build to connect them and really what we're 02:03:07.760 --> 02:03:12.560 building in these bond packages are those connectors because if we don't then what ends up happening is 02:03:12.560 --> 02:03:16.720 people go through the neighborhoods and they over utilize that pavement for the same volume of 02:03:16.720 --> 02:03:22.400 traffic that's trying to get through these level of service e intersections d's and f's we do have 02:03:22.400 --> 02:03:28.960 some throughout town as well so that traffic just tries to find a different pathway now and you see 02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:33.760 that especially in in south denton where neighborhoods were utilized as a way of 02:03:33.760 --> 02:03:41.440 maybe i'll put in a lot of cut through traffic and make it very hard to wind through so that i can 02:03:41.440 --> 02:03:45.920 keep people from cutting through it's had the reverse effect especially with gps and ways and 02:03:45.920 --> 02:03:49.360 all these other things that now people use on their phone to say well i don't want to sit at 02:03:49.360 --> 02:03:53.920 this traffic light because there's a lot of stopping but my gps tells me now i can go through 02:03:53.920 --> 02:03:59.360 this neighborhood and wind my way all the way over to here i don't live here i just want to get over 02:03:59.360 --> 02:04:05.280 to here and we see that a lot so what we don't have especially on the south side of town but 02:04:05.280 --> 02:04:09.600 throughout denton there's a good network of arterials and collector roadways which is what 02:04:09.600 --> 02:04:15.440 we're talking about with hickory creek and bonnie bray mckinney i mean there's a whole host of 02:04:15.440 --> 02:04:21.840 roadways beyond just that that tie those together and relieve the parking lot scenario at a red 02:04:21.840 --> 02:04:27.760 light so that people do stay on those roadways that are built for that traffic and keep them out of 02:04:27.760 --> 02:04:33.440 our subdivisions so it's as much a safety concern it helps to minimize the total maintenance dollars 02:04:33.440 --> 02:04:38.800 that goes on the larger portion of our roadways which is in those neighborhoods from just a pure 02:04:38.800 --> 02:04:45.040 amount of them and localize them onto a select few that collect the vast majority of traffic and 02:04:45.040 --> 02:04:54.080 put the dollars there does that help yes it does okay okay so one question that came up earlier 02:04:54.080 --> 02:05:00.320 today is knowing we know now about the police station renovation and the police substation 02:05:00.320 --> 02:05:08.480 we were given direction of looking at a couple different options 100 million to 210 million 02:05:08.480 --> 02:05:18.400 dollars so i know we know today about those costs going up i think the question is do we have to look 02:05:18.400 --> 02:05:27.040 at going to a higher number as an option a 230-ish number and likewise should we look at 02:05:27.040 --> 02:05:35.920 do we look at something lower in the 180s or 190s realizing you know whatever we just recommend to 02:05:35.920 --> 02:05:42.160 city council is going to you know if we add 20 million dollars to the package that's about a 02:05:42.160 --> 02:05:52.080 one and a half cent increase to the overall tax rate for debt service or do we go lower 02:05:52.080 --> 02:06:00.960 and stay well below that effective tax rate and keep it in the four to three and a half cent 02:06:00.960 --> 02:06:07.200 you know realize we have to sell this package to the citizens so any discussion on that 02:06:07.200 --> 02:06:16.000 i would like that this is related but as we look at what we're going to spend we also need to look 02:06:16.000 --> 02:06:23.360 at how we're going to pay for it and the legislature took a bite out of ways that we used to be able to 02:06:23.360 --> 02:06:31.120 get creative paying off bonds can you just give us the cliff notes version of that 02:06:31.120 --> 02:06:35.280 you're talking about the three and a half percent rollback or 02:06:35.280 --> 02:06:42.720 well yeah and i'm talking about accelerated stripping us of the opportunity to pay off 02:06:42.720 --> 02:06:49.440 debt early and so refund yeah advanced advanced refundings that is that is just change as we make 02:06:49.440 --> 02:06:56.880 our do our financial planning that was a part of the 2017 tax law nationwide we no longer can do 02:06:56.880 --> 02:07:01.680 advanced refunding so that does limit our capabilities when interest rates get low on 02:07:01.680 --> 02:07:05.760 options we can do to free up some of our debt service so that definitely is something that all 02:07:05.760 --> 02:07:10.000 cities have been dealing with for the past couple years and will continue to be a constraint on our 02:07:10.000 --> 02:07:14.880 flexibility in regards to the i'm just assuming you're talking about the three and a half percent 02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:21.040 rollback that doesn't have a direct impact on the debt service rate because the rollback rate is 02:07:21.040 --> 02:07:27.120 calculated specifically on our m and o rate our maintenance and operations rate so it does have 02:07:27.120 --> 02:07:31.120 some knock-on effects obviously with our debt service tax rate on the maintenance that goes 02:07:31.120 --> 02:07:36.080 along with with some of these projects as we look at a police substation a police station 02:07:36.080 --> 02:07:41.360 we have other other demands that are that are increasing the amount of officers that we need 02:07:41.360 --> 02:07:45.040 so there are plenty of discussions that we're going to be having on our m and o rate over the 02:07:45.040 --> 02:07:48.960 next few years and constraints that the three and a half percent rollback will have on us 02:07:48.960 --> 02:07:52.720 but the debt that we issue does not have that direct impact because the 02:07:52.720 --> 02:08:01.200 rollback rate is is directly related to the m and o rate and we also can't refinance like we used to 02:08:07.120 --> 02:08:13.600 david i think that um it might be good just to mention how much current debt the city has 02:08:13.600 --> 02:08:18.960 and how much of that will be paid off by the end of this particular package 02:08:18.960 --> 02:08:23.840 not not not adding new debt but what we currently carry 02:08:23.840 --> 02:08:27.280 and what the what the payoff will be over the course of the next six years 02:08:36.400 --> 02:08:42.960 so here's an example of some documentation that that we that we can choose to put forward with 02:08:42.960 --> 02:08:48.640 our bond program this year this is information that will be required by the legislature at least 02:08:48.640 --> 02:08:53.200 some version of this this is a draft form that we developed internally in future bond elections 02:08:53.200 --> 02:09:00.240 by the state this is not we are we do not have to abide by the new legislation with this bond 02:09:00.240 --> 02:09:06.000 package because we're calling the election before september 1st but it's an example to hit on the 02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:12.800 question that you asked exactly our total debt service on all of our outstanding debt property 02:09:12.800 --> 02:09:19.280 tax paid debt is 261 million dollars and that means that's the debt service principal and interest 02:09:19.280 --> 02:09:25.120 that will pay over the next 20 years to retire all of our all of our debt and you can see here 02:09:25.120 --> 02:09:31.920 that the amount of debt and interest will will issue with the hundred and 210 million dollar package 02:09:31.920 --> 02:09:41.040 is about 316 million so those are those are just the total numbers the way that that actually 02:09:41.040 --> 02:09:46.480 impacts us is right now our debt service on that total debt that we have outstanding for property 02:09:46.480 --> 02:09:53.200 tax back debt is about 25 million dollars that's what we pay annually in our debt service payments 02:09:53.200 --> 02:09:58.640 for that debt you can see and this is just our outstanding debt that amount continues to fall 02:09:59.360 --> 02:10:05.040 each year until we get to that until we get to 20 years out where we retire all of our outstanding 02:10:05.040 --> 02:10:11.280 debt and ultimately what happens is you know as we get as we start going down and we decrease our 02:10:11.280 --> 02:10:16.400 debt service payments for our outstanding debt we would then make up that difference and stay 02:10:16.400 --> 02:10:20.720 about at that 25 million dollar range with the new debt issuances and obviously go a little go 02:10:20.720 --> 02:10:26.560 above that 25 million dollar range as we talk start talking about the increased debt service tax rate 02:10:27.520 --> 02:10:32.480 but i think one of the things that we heard was that by at that six years from now of the existing 02:10:32.480 --> 02:10:38.080 debt about 98 million would be paid off over the course of the next six years over the course of 02:10:38.080 --> 02:10:42.880 the next year so about 98 million dollars paid off in six years and then the important follow 02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:49.200 on to that is the the entire 210 million dollars obviously is not going to be issued the first year 02:10:49.200 --> 02:10:53.920 it's going to be issued gradually so you're going to have 98 over six years 98 million dollars 02:10:53.920 --> 02:10:59.040 gradually coming off of our debt service payments and then we'll be adding that 210 million dollars 02:10:59.040 --> 02:11:06.320 in total issuance over those six years as well so that's why it's not all just doubling our total 02:11:06.320 --> 02:11:11.600 debt uh debt service is not doubling it's it's a gradual effect that keeps us around our debt 02:11:11.600 --> 02:11:16.640 service tax uh total debt service tax so it's a great point when considering our total bond issuance 02:11:20.240 --> 02:11:31.600 that clear to everyone yeah we we've asked david to come back next time showing maybe a third color 02:11:31.600 --> 02:11:38.800 what that if you phased in the new debt what that would look like absolutely 02:11:38.800 --> 02:11:46.800 yes i'll pick a different one than blue and red green another question 02:11:48.000 --> 02:11:52.880 i'd like to echo mr davis who spoke earlier i've kind of wondered this myself i think i know the 02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:57.040 answer but i'm going to ask it anyway um so considering that we're currently 02:11:57.040 --> 02:12:01.600 updating the mobility plan why are we widening streets prior to updating that 02:12:01.600 --> 02:12:15.040 so there are several things going on all at one time so we did do an area study where we looked 02:12:15.040 --> 02:12:22.640 at the entire quadrant from 2181 all the way back over to 35w we went from vintage and hobson all 02:12:22.640 --> 02:12:30.800 the way south to crofford road yeah so we looked at the entire area inclusively because we we knew 02:12:30.800 --> 02:12:35.520 where that was going and the other thing to consider as well uh i know i heard concerns earlier about 02:12:35.520 --> 02:12:39.520 well why are you widening a brush creek road when you're getting ready to do a mobility plan update 02:12:40.400 --> 02:12:46.160 on the current mobility plan brush creek road is a major arterial it's listed that way today that's 02:12:46.160 --> 02:12:50.320 not going to change the only thing that changes is the connection directly from hickory creek over to 02:12:50.320 --> 02:12:56.240 brush creek and there are vast majority reasons for that one is it is the shortest distance to 02:12:56.240 --> 02:13:01.840 span over the floodplain plus that's where the vast majority of development is coming in today 02:13:01.840 --> 02:13:07.760 i mean we're seeing those act and i think that map is still over here where you can see development 02:13:07.760 --> 02:13:12.720 coming in and it still doesn't reference developments that are coming in that we are having 02:13:12.720 --> 02:13:17.040 ongoing meetings with but they just haven't submitted an application so there's development 02:13:17.040 --> 02:13:21.840 coming into this area that absolutely ties into that and went into that study that projects all 02:13:21.840 --> 02:13:28.720 the way out to 2040 what does traffic look like so the mobility plan in that area is not going to 02:13:28.720 --> 02:13:34.320 change dramatically but it does look at our regional partners as well argyle to the south 02:13:34.320 --> 02:13:41.360 the impacts to crofford road and what they're just able to maintain long term as a city same with the 02:13:41.360 --> 02:13:46.400 county uh text on as well they're all at the table as we're discussing what does this area look like 02:13:46.400 --> 02:13:51.360 so this was definitely not done in a vacuum uh the results that are in this area study would also be 02:13:51.360 --> 02:13:55.360 going into the future mobility study that's currently ongoing it's not like it would be 02:13:55.360 --> 02:13:58.480 thrown away as a separate study it would be conclusively part of it 02:14:01.920 --> 02:14:07.360 on that uh on that traffic study you mentioned yes do you happen to know what the projected 02:14:07.360 --> 02:14:11.680 population is in that south dentin area that the traffic study was based on 02:14:11.680 --> 02:14:18.400 i can get that for you off the top of my head no i don't it also plugs into some 02:14:18.400 --> 02:14:23.440 projected development that would be on the west side of i-35w as well and that would be a prime 02:14:23.440 --> 02:14:28.880 connector in that area too sure we can get that number for you it's in the no that's fine i think 02:14:28.880 --> 02:14:37.360 what i'm wondering is whether the uh the amount of population that the traffic study is assuming 02:14:37.360 --> 02:14:46.080 is aligned with the amount of growth that the uh financial projections are doing and that sort 02:14:46.080 --> 02:14:52.800 of thing or whether those are are disparate so i'd have to get a little bit more finite on your 02:14:52.800 --> 02:14:59.040 question as far as growth goes i know the projected volumes we use are in line with what the council 02:14:59.040 --> 02:15:04.960 of governments uses and that has traditionally been very very conservative we typically see growth 02:15:04.960 --> 02:15:10.240 at a much greater rate than what it actually goes into the study so we're projecting lower 02:15:10.240 --> 02:15:14.880 than what most likely will happen and much like david was talking about in the future expenses 02:15:14.880 --> 02:15:19.760 along with debt service and everything else that gets combined it's the same thing where we're 02:15:19.760 --> 02:15:25.600 trying to project traffic volumes i mean we the studies that we utilize today the growth patterns 02:15:25.600 --> 02:15:29.840 we're using today are based on what's happened over the last five years we typically update 02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:34.640 that every five years it could be a little bit longer depending on where you are we're running 02:15:34.640 --> 02:15:39.920 off of a very conservative estimate but what we have seen over the last 10 to 15 years is that 02:15:39.920 --> 02:15:46.400 growth rate is faster than what we're actually anticipating so instead of doing what you're 02:15:46.400 --> 02:15:51.680 absolutely seeing tex dot do right now so they're they're widening roadways after the fact we're 02:15:51.680 --> 02:15:55.600 trying to be very strategic and that's why we're not saying well let's widen every single road in 02:15:55.600 --> 02:16:00.960 the city of denton to four lanes we're saying where are those prime drivers where are they coming 02:16:00.960 --> 02:16:08.080 we're seeing development coming we have to get ahead of it so if i don't know exactly what you're 02:16:08.080 --> 02:16:13.120 looking for specifically at the moment and i don't know if that's david answering it or me okay 02:16:15.360 --> 02:16:20.160 i think we can definitely i think we to your point we could bring back and just show in that 02:16:20.160 --> 02:16:24.240 area what is the growth assumptions in that document and obviously compare them to the 02:16:24.240 --> 02:16:30.480 growth assumption that we're using for for our total ab and just and see what that is i think 02:16:30.480 --> 02:16:35.520 the difficulty it's not going to be as precise as we know we don't get with our a rss value projections 02:16:35.520 --> 02:16:40.960 down to that quadrant but i think we can definitely at least show what they're projecting in that in 02:16:40.960 --> 02:16:46.480 that area versus our total projections and look at other other factors involved in the plan as well 02:16:46.480 --> 02:16:51.920 as far as growth compared to what we're projecting yeah i think that would do that my my concern is 02:16:51.920 --> 02:16:57.600 that if if you overestimate the growth for the traffic needs then you end up overbuilding sooner 02:16:57.600 --> 02:17:04.640 than you need to to some of the citizen comments earlier and if you uh on the other side if you 02:17:05.280 --> 02:17:12.240 underestimate or rather if you overestimate how much the assessed value is going to grow compared 02:17:12.240 --> 02:17:17.440 to the roads then then you run into funding issues so i just want to understand if those are in line 02:17:17.440 --> 02:17:22.160 with each other we we can definitely do that i would just is not an exact science it won't be 02:17:22.160 --> 02:17:34.320 question david what is what is the uh the interest rate that's paid on the bonds what 02:17:34.320 --> 02:17:39.360 is the benchmark rate for that is it based on treasuries or what what what are we kind of 02:17:39.360 --> 02:17:46.240 looking at for those well it's based so it's right now we have in 2020 a three uh 3.75 interest rate 02:17:46.240 --> 02:17:52.960 and then 4.5 in the out years 2021 on and it's really just based on our bondage which is right 02:17:52.960 --> 02:17:58.720 now we have a bond issuance next week um where we're getting very low rates so that's why we 02:17:58.720 --> 02:18:03.840 kind of we've said okay if we go um just an increase on what we're getting now next year 02:18:03.840 --> 02:18:08.880 and then from two years two years from now it would be we don't want to we don't want to be 02:18:08.880 --> 02:18:13.120 too aggressive and think that we're going to keep these low rates we have now over the life of the 02:18:13.120 --> 02:18:18.160 bonds or the of us selling the bond so that's that's where we are right now but right now 02:18:18.160 --> 02:18:24.400 for what we're selling next week is even is lower than that 3.75 that was one of my my thoughts about 02:18:24.400 --> 02:18:29.600 the question that pat had asked is do we want to raise the amount of the bond or lower it 02:18:29.600 --> 02:18:33.920 my kind of high level thought is you know debt has never been cheaper than it is today 02:18:33.920 --> 02:18:41.600 costs are going up you know exponentially as time goes on the growth is coming uh highways are being 02:18:41.600 --> 02:18:46.800 expanded you know outer loops are being proposed so the growth is going to be here whether you know 02:18:46.800 --> 02:18:52.000 we like it or not and there's no time like the present to fund projects that that you know are 02:18:52.000 --> 02:18:56.800 cheaper now than they ever will be now i'll just use that as an opportunity also to just kind of 02:18:56.800 --> 02:19:00.720 reinforce you know when we say 210 million dollars and we estimate when we're going to sell those 02:19:00.720 --> 02:19:06.160 bonds over six years say our av growth next year is higher than five percent or those interest rates 02:19:06.160 --> 02:19:10.800 are still even lower than we're projecting it gives us some of that balance to issue more 02:19:10.800 --> 02:19:15.680 next year depending on the projects and those discussions are we one ones that we have with 02:19:15.680 --> 02:19:25.200 city council every year as we look to issue debt great point has the city ever considered many bonds 02:19:27.440 --> 02:19:38.560 um like a large number of bonds no it's actually where the citizens contribute 02:19:38.560 --> 02:19:42.240 to the bond so they actually fund their own community just like we did in the war bonds 02:19:42.240 --> 02:19:51.920 i actually did one of those way way back it it's it's kind of fun so that citizens can 02:19:51.920 --> 02:19:58.160 can change it's a nightmare to manage yes just go out and ask because it seems to be a growing 02:19:58.160 --> 02:20:03.520 concept across the country again and like i said it's a great i think it's a great way for the 02:20:03.520 --> 02:20:09.600 citizens to buy in but it's hard to manage i'm i'm not familiar so i can't speak to them right now 02:20:09.600 --> 02:20:20.160 but we can definitely look into sure yeah it's kind of cool okay any other comments or questions 02:20:20.160 --> 02:20:32.080 regarding the 230 option or the 180 option the reason i'm i feel like we need to 02:20:32.080 --> 02:20:40.080 get some you know feedback on that is and thank you nathan is if we're going to give staff 02:20:40.080 --> 02:20:48.080 direction to bring back some variants of options for us to consider um you know using what tim 02:20:48.080 --> 02:20:55.120 laid out which i think is prudent i think would be helpful to get a sense are we willing to go 02:20:55.120 --> 02:21:04.720 above 210 or do we want to stay at 210 can we take a straw bill wait wait wait i'm only kidding 02:21:04.720 --> 02:21:10.000 no you're only kidding i mean we can i mean we can in the committee we can basically do anything 02:21:10.000 --> 02:21:14.720 we want until we make our final recommendation and that's you know so yeah we could do a straw 02:21:14.720 --> 02:21:25.440 bill but my my question is did the council give us a firm number like we should not go above 210 02:21:25.440 --> 02:21:33.040 or is that something that we in the committee can adjust the the resolution itself forming 02:21:33.040 --> 02:21:38.560 the committee said to uh to look at a bond package not to exceed 210 million dollars 02:21:38.560 --> 02:21:44.000 but the um the message that we received from council as we talked through the process was 02:21:44.000 --> 02:21:49.200 if the committee wanted to go above that there would be that additional step of going back to 02:21:49.200 --> 02:21:53.680 the the council and asking them to amend the resolution so that would be the mechanism to 02:21:53.680 --> 02:21:59.840 get there right okay so that that was my question because i couldn't remember what if it was a 02:21:59.840 --> 02:22:06.160 hard and fast 210 or if it was we'd just have to take that extra step to say hey we've had these 02:22:06.160 --> 02:22:14.320 discussions because of west mckinney or various other states so southeast dent and do we have 02:22:14.320 --> 02:22:21.280 the time to take that extra step to go back to council to amend the resolution uh we're very 02:22:21.280 --> 02:22:25.120 close and like i'm bring up the schedule i can bring it up now or wait till the next item but 02:22:25.120 --> 02:22:29.520 we're very close on time all the way around if we were going to do that it would be to happen 02:22:29.520 --> 02:22:35.200 at the next meeting were we also tasked to come up with a 100 million dollar option 02:22:35.920 --> 02:22:40.720 the the task was to consider 100 million dollar option uh previously we've we've shown kind of 02:22:40.720 --> 02:22:44.320 what that would look like we can definitely bring that back that could be it's running 02:22:44.320 --> 02:22:48.960 different scenarios at different amounts is no no problem so we could bring back 100 we could kind 02:22:48.960 --> 02:22:55.280 of bring say you want that forwardization list we could do 100 150 180 210 as many as you'd like 02:22:55.280 --> 02:23:01.440 if it would assist your conversation and so the intent of the 100 million dollars that that was 02:23:01.440 --> 02:23:05.920 derived from saying that would keep us at our effective tax rate throughout the life of the 02:23:05.920 --> 02:23:12.720 program whereas the 210 would keep us below our total tax rate i think one of the things that 02:23:12.720 --> 02:23:20.240 might also be helpful to the committee is if we could have some historical data on what previous 02:23:20.240 --> 02:23:30.000 bonds have uh suggested as the tax rate increase because if we're going to have a bond that is at 02:23:30.960 --> 02:23:37.280 five cents six cents is what the what that number might be how does that compare with what we've 02:23:37.280 --> 02:23:45.120 asked for previously um because i that needs to be a factor in terms of our decision of 02:23:45.120 --> 02:23:51.680 what will the voters support and and there's going to be a there's going to be a pretty 02:23:51.680 --> 02:23:56.960 important line that we'll have to determine as to what we think the voters will support 02:23:59.680 --> 02:24:04.240 we can bring that back obviously previously we discussed the three cent that was associated with 02:24:04.240 --> 02:24:11.120 right i think not only what was asked for what was suggested what actually actually happened 02:24:11.120 --> 02:24:21.840 did we actually end up raising taxes and and and my only my only differentiation on that is 02:24:21.840 --> 02:24:28.400 because of when the voters went to vote they were off they were they were going in with a three cent 02:24:28.400 --> 02:24:35.280 in mind or whatever that number might be we may not have done that but if it was if we're talking 02:24:35.280 --> 02:24:40.080 about something it might double what we've ever asked for before how will the we i think we have 02:24:40.080 --> 02:24:47.760 to ask how will the voters respond to that i would also like to see how those items were listed on the 02:24:47.760 --> 02:24:54.640 ballot how those bond proposals were worded on the ballot along with whatever the numbers are 02:24:56.240 --> 02:25:03.600 and how we propose i know this one is proposed to be broken down to a certain point it's not just 02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:08.080 all or nothing right two propositions public safety facilities and roadway infrastructure 02:25:08.080 --> 02:25:13.440 so in 2012 it was only only a street rehab program so that was just one proposition 02:25:13.440 --> 02:25:18.640 whereas in 2014 we had four propositions that we've gone through previously in that 02:25:18.640 --> 02:25:23.120 right here so we can we can bring that back and show you in more detail exactly what the language 02:25:23.120 --> 02:25:29.280 looked like and just kind of of 2014 we had that three three cent tax increase that we didn't 02:25:29.280 --> 02:25:36.240 realize because our assessed value came in higher than our anticipations the worst case scenario 02:25:36.240 --> 02:25:42.560 and in 2005 it was four four cents that we estimated to go to 02:25:42.560 --> 02:25:52.720 so just to summarize tam asked for historically what we've asked for in the past in terms of tax 02:25:52.720 --> 02:26:00.240 increase right right and then patty you asked how the exact wording that was used in the previous 02:26:00.240 --> 02:26:06.640 bond elections and then randy's and then randy what actually happened right yeah right 02:26:06.640 --> 02:26:12.240 are you so there's a lot of different language you have election ordinances bond language 02:26:12.240 --> 02:26:17.120 proposition language are you most concerned with the bond language itself i'm i'm interested in 02:26:17.120 --> 02:26:22.720 what's on the ballot ballot line because that's what john q voter is going to read what we have 02:26:22.720 --> 02:26:32.480 to sell yeah okay because how things are worded can be very important okay we can bring that back 02:26:32.480 --> 02:26:33.680 tracy good with all that 02:26:33.680 --> 02:26:39.200 okay 02:26:39.200 --> 02:26:46.240 any other army class yeah if i could real quick just get your feedback on something you probably 02:26:46.240 --> 02:26:51.920 have a window to to get something to the council next tuesday it's gonna be the last time 02:26:51.920 --> 02:26:58.400 they're gonna meet before you can you meet again and are you wanting us to take a resolution there 02:26:58.400 --> 02:27:03.280 and get their feedback as to whether the committee should be looking at or is is able to consider 02:27:03.280 --> 02:27:08.320 something over the 210 because because of the wording of the resolution if so we'll get that 02:27:08.320 --> 02:27:17.040 done tomorrow but i think to be to do our our duty which is to consider in my opinion to give 02:27:17.040 --> 02:27:23.920 our law enforcement and fire department the resources maybe do the job we have to at least 02:27:23.920 --> 02:27:30.560 consider it if we can't if we need a resolution to go above 210 then i think we need to ask 02:27:31.280 --> 02:27:38.160 for permission to do that yeah will you all agree with that statement anybody disagree we're not not 02:27:38.160 --> 02:27:44.160 making a recommendation i'm just asking mother may i okay we'll get that handled tomorrow then 02:27:44.160 --> 02:27:50.480 okay thanks in light of the the new in light of the new figures that have come in i think 02:27:50.480 --> 02:28:00.480 we would be remiss if we didn't ask to consider more and that already includes the 100 to 210 so 02:28:00.480 --> 02:28:09.200 the request to go if it's more than 210 that's correct okay great thanks okay 02:28:09.200 --> 02:28:17.680 all right uh we think we have one more agenda i don't i already have it up based on the discussion 02:28:17.680 --> 02:28:31.200 so if you want to move over to that agenda so uh next week we have uh more discussion more public 02:28:31.200 --> 02:28:40.160 comment um earlier today we discussed do we need as a finance task force and everyone's 02:28:40.160 --> 02:28:48.880 in welcome to attend i will if you show up i will buy you lunch uh well 02:28:48.880 --> 02:28:57.520 so the question we had earlier today is do we need does that finance task force need to meet again 02:28:57.520 --> 02:29:06.720 my suspicion at this point is probably not would you all agree and i'm asking the whole committee 02:29:06.720 --> 02:29:13.120 here you want to i think we're going to get enough information for the full committee to have the 02:29:13.120 --> 02:29:17.040 conversation we need to have can we all the information discussed earlier i can bring to 02:29:17.040 --> 02:29:24.560 them okay so six o'clock meeting i just saved you a meeting david i appreciate it um and so we meet 02:29:24.560 --> 02:29:33.040 the 18th and then the 25th is hard yeah date where we have i think i think we can feel certain we 02:29:33.040 --> 02:29:38.480 won't have action next week um but i think we'll have a lot of good discussion and then the 25th 02:29:38.480 --> 02:29:47.920 is really our our hard deadline um to to get to a point of a of a decision so um yeah hopefully we 02:29:47.920 --> 02:29:52.880 have a good conversation next week to get there okay i would just like to say i i'd like to see 02:29:52.880 --> 02:30:01.760 us at this next meeting be at a point that we have a preliminary uh plan that we will take final 02:30:01.760 --> 02:30:08.000 action on on the 25th and i i think we ought to get we ought to attempt at this next meeting to 02:30:08.000 --> 02:30:24.960 get pretty far down the road to that final decision right so then should then we kind of have a lot on 02:30:24.960 --> 02:30:30.560 the plate right so i mean if you're not if we're not going to have a task force meeting then 02:30:30.560 --> 02:30:37.040 should we maybe consider allotting more time or allowing for an earlier start time i mean 02:30:37.040 --> 02:30:45.600 just the amount of time just a thought any thoughts on that 02:30:45.600 --> 02:30:53.040 six o'clock is that a hard is there anything early or hard for someone else to make 02:30:55.360 --> 02:31:07.360 five o'clock you couldn't or could not can you do 530 okay all right 530 would be better all right 02:31:07.360 --> 02:31:17.280 let's do 530 okay unless you're strongly object to 530 we'll go for 530 great perfect okay all 02:31:17.280 --> 02:31:29.200 right are we voting on each project individually is that how we're going to do it and say we're 02:31:29.200 --> 02:31:34.560 going to do this and we're not going to do it because i feel like we need to be going through 02:31:34.560 --> 02:31:39.200 it like that because well i want to put east bikini on there obviously but i i want to find 02:31:39.200 --> 02:31:44.800 out maybe ryan for example at the bottom of kind of that list of what people were rating maybe 02:31:44.800 --> 02:31:51.520 ryan is one that can be removed to put on another project or to keep our costs within a certain 02:31:51.520 --> 02:31:55.600 budget or thing so that's why i'm wondering that we're doing the next meeting we're going to actually 02:31:55.600 --> 02:32:01.040 could i if i could speak to that what i think will happen because what if we get the projects 02:32:01.040 --> 02:32:08.800 with the dollar amounts in the order that we have here then then we see this is where the line is at 02:32:08.800 --> 02:32:15.040 180 this is the line at 210 230 then we're able to get to exactly what you what you're talking about 02:32:15.040 --> 02:32:21.760 i don't think we have to necessarily be debating the top items on the on that unless there's some 02:32:21.760 --> 02:32:28.000 driving reason to do that but we can get to what are the what are the ones that that are above or 02:32:28.000 --> 02:32:35.120 below the line so with that question can we do one more survey that includes mckinney street 02:32:36.320 --> 02:32:39.680 i'd like to know kind of kind of where it would rank in the list 02:32:39.680 --> 02:32:44.560 if the committee would like that i can i can send another survey 02:32:44.560 --> 02:32:59.200 include what the price amount is yes that that yeah 02:33:06.560 --> 02:33:11.200 i don't think it's going to change anything but it's okay is that make sure that is everyone 02:33:11.200 --> 02:33:15.920 comfortable with the way the survey was handled as far as just seeing kind of a summary view not 02:33:15.920 --> 02:33:20.960 anonymous to some degree obviously when you when you all get together the discussion 02:33:20.960 --> 02:33:29.040 amongst everyone is open okay great for instance on ryan road there's a range right on ryan road 02:33:29.040 --> 02:33:35.520 and we didn't really have a chance the way the survey was the last time to you know put ourselves 02:33:35.520 --> 02:33:44.000 into a range at the four million or the 14 million i could do different amounts four to four to four 02:33:44.000 --> 02:33:49.920 to eight eight to twelve thank you okay everyone track with what he just said 02:33:49.920 --> 02:34:00.560 okay all right any other questions comments concerns all right i'll take a motion to adjourn 02:34:02.560 --> 02:34:07.840 second have a nice evening thanks everyone