1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,180 Good evening, welcome to the July 11th Special Citizens Bond Advisory Committee meeting. 2 00:00:13,180 --> 00:00:16,400 We are going to have a full agenda tonight. 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:23,360 The first item on our agenda is to consider approval of the meeting minutes for June 20th, 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,980 2019, June 27th, the 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. 5 00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:29,980 Pardon me. 6 00:00:29,980 --> 00:00:40,800 Before we go into that though, we'll first take citizen comments that anyone would like 7 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,800 to make. 8 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Is there any cards? 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:01:03,800 Is anyone wishing to speak, build out a card? 10 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:19,520 Okay. 11 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:25,600 What? 12 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Yes. 13 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,000 Wait a minute here. 14 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,760 Just while this gentleman is preparing a card, a reminder that each speaker will be given 15 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,920 a total of three minutes to address items that he or she wishes to discuss that's listed 16 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,080 on the agenda. 17 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:52,600 The committee members are allowed to ask questions of the speaker pertaining to items that we're 18 00:01:52,600 --> 00:02:08,520 considering for this Bond Program. 19 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,520 Do you have a question, sir? 20 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,520 I'm sorry. 21 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:15,440 Do you want questions or comments prior to your time over here? 22 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Yes. 23 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,320 The first item on the agenda is citizen comments, so this would be the time for citizen comments. 24 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:37,960 Does everyone that intends to speak have a card that they're filling out? 25 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:58,840 I'm sorry, may I ask a question while we're waiting for the citizen comments? 26 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:07,720 This is only for items that are listed on today's agenda items, is that correct? 27 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,520 The items for today are pretty broad in the sense that we're talking about all projects 28 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:19,520 in the bond and the timeline for the bond and prioritization, so that really encompasses, 29 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,520 as long as the comments are about the bond program or any consideration to the bond program 30 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,520 that would apply to the agenda. 31 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:41,080 Okay, to the bond program, as given to the committee, the ramifications and restrictions 32 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,080 for the two options that we were given? 33 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:43,080 We really get into each project and we even have considerations for what could be involved 34 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,800 in the bond program, so if the comments in any way relate to the bond program, they would 35 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,800 be appropriate. 36 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Okay, so just anything regarding any kind of, we'd like this to be on the bond? 37 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:56,520 Sure. 38 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,360 And we're going to do this for how long? 39 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,080 As many people as have comments. 40 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:09,280 Okay, as many people as have comments, three minutes each, right? 41 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,280 Correct. 42 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Yep. 43 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,280 All right. 44 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:13,280 Thank you. 45 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,800 Okay, I have two cards. 46 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,800 The first individual is Mr. Richard Schanauer. 47 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:26,360 Schanhaus, my apologies. 48 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:35,920 And sir, would you please come up to the podium and speak into the microphone? 49 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:44,760 Well, I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle. 50 00:04:44,760 --> 00:05:00,800 And I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm 51 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:12,520 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 52 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:19,880 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 53 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:28,920 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 54 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:39,840 a resident in Argyle, and I'm here tonight because I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm 55 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:52,360 a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and 56 00:05:52,360 --> 00:06:08,960 I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, and I'm a resident in Argyle, 57 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:20,720 from you guys. All this is we've seen from websites and whether it's text dot or county 58 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:27,240 or city planning that has gone on the nice little six lane divided highway with like 59 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,960 office buildings on each side but it's it's not as you know a rule out there. So that's 60 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:43,440 my concern and I'm here tonight to hear is this I understand there's a bond bond election 61 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,960 in November that has to go forward before any of this but where's all the money coming 62 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,440 from there's a lot of different entities with the North Texas government and the county 63 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,680 and the city and text dot and it doesn't seem like all that money is actually put been put 64 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:14,660 together yet so we would just like some clear clarification on what we're facing. West of 65 00:07:14,660 --> 00:07:29,200 1830 yes ma'am. West of 1830 between 1830 and 377 it's because brush creek dead ends 66 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:35,000 into 377. I'm on the south side and we're actually closer to the street on the south 67 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,240 side than the properties on the north side are but it seems like from the information 68 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,720 we found that they're going to they're going to take you know from the middle of the road 69 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:53,160 about 70 feet each way. From the website we've been determined that that kind of footage 70 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:59,640 would be required for maybe even more for a road like that for a highway like that. 71 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:12,640 So yes but there's no road there it goes you have to cut through ranch farmland ranch land 72 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:23,480 some time time we got three minutes up and Diana if you could speak into a microphone 73 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:35,520 so we can hear you thank you. Is there a map that we can be looking at if people are going 74 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:58,120 to be interested in? Yes can you get you a map? Oh thank you very much. We're on Wood Creek 75 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:13,680 Circle which is right behind the Denton Company Club 17 and the side of us in there. But it's 76 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:29,120 my house and my house is right adjacent right along. So some of your questions are what 77 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,920 I would say are of a technical nature would it be better for you to sit down with a staff 78 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:54,120 person and talk through that first. Okay all right yes sir. Thank you. Thank you. All right 79 00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:12,080 next we have Mr. John Davis. It's been a while since I spoke from this podium and first time 80 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:19,000 I've ever been limited to three minutes. First let me thank you citizen members of this committee 81 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:25,280 here for taking time out of your busy schedules to center these projects for our community 82 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:36,440 here and your efforts are really appreciated. I've spent I have 46 and a half plus years 83 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:43,560 as a civil engineer most of my career was spent planning designing building and maintaining 84 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,920 major roadway projects so I couch that with the suggestions and comments that I'm going 85 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:56,760 to give you. One is for your roadway projects that you're considering I believe it's a little 86 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:06,040 bit premature. The city is in the process now of updating the 2015 mobility plan. The 87 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:13,480 mobility plan is to guide priorities of roadway projects for capacity projects in the future 88 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,620 they're in the process of updating that and that update is scheduled to be completed in 89 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:26,040 February of 2020 so it would seem that you might want or the city and the committee might 90 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:33,080 want to wait till that mobility plan is updated to look at the roadway projects and prioritize 91 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:39,440 them there and see if that brings any new data that would put the election a year from 92 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:50,360 now. The second thing is on the staff recommended project of Hickory Creek Road extension I'm 93 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:57,320 sorry let me back up a second. Actually with the 2015 plan one of the most highest priority 94 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:05,560 roadways in the southern area would be Hobson Lane to widen Hobson Lane and at that you 95 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:12,400 should be correcting the intersection at Hobson Country Club and Fort Worth Drive those people 96 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:18,120 who drive that area in the afternoon know how much it backs up there but Hobson has 97 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:27,160 a greater current traffic and projected traffic than Ryan or Hickory Creek. Now jumping down 98 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:35,400 to Hickory Creek the congested area of Hickory Creek if you will is east of River Pass between 99 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:44,400 River Pass and Keesley Lane there where the houses are. West of that there is no level 100 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:52,080 of service D it's A if at the very worst I'm sorry probably B at the very worst except 101 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:58,460 at the intersection of Country Club there which at the one time the city had plans to 102 00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:07,240 improve that the intersection there that would improve that congestion point there. But with 103 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:19,800 the recommended routing of Hickory Creek straight west to 377. Sir your three minutes are up. 104 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:27,720 Okay the best routing would be northwest through the floodplain farmland there and tied to 105 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:35,360 Vintage Road. That way it would connect with the future widening of loop 288 west and connect 106 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:41,600 to an existing six lane project that's already planned and funded. Thank you for your time. 107 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:49,560 Thank you for your comments. Thank you. Is there any other cards at this time? Alright 108 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:59,600 thank you very much. Alright without any other public comments we'll move on to item 2A I 109 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:08,560 believe David of going over the meeting minutes for the last three meetings. Has everyone 110 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:23,440 had a chance to look at those? Any comments or concerns about meeting minutes? Good evening 111 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:35,760 everyone. I was concerned about I believe I tried to address the May 30th meeting but 112 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:44,840 after that there were concerns because the draft minutes did not reflect but only towards 113 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:55,120 certain people that were already on the committee prior to I've noticed that you know when I 114 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:09,520 tried to convey that there needs to be minutes shown that we voted as a whole committee that 115 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:18,400 should have been on the May 30th minutes and it wasn't and I addressed that at the second 116 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:28,740 meeting that we were at and so I tried to reach out to the director of finance about 117 00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:38,080 the minutes and you know notice that I just I had to bring it forward that's what I was 118 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:46,120 told that I had to do and I felt like I had did that anyway on record on the second meeting 119 00:15:46,120 --> 00:16:00,640 but again I was not heard and there is another committee member who is you know the same 120 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:11,880 ethnicity as I and she has brought up concerns about an area that was posted publicly that 121 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:20,960 has not been addressed and that would be the southeast Denton location and yet none of 122 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,600 her concerns or questions were also a part of the draft meetings but most importantly 123 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:36,200 we did a motion on the first meeting that needs to be reflected in the minutes and that 124 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:42,800 it's not I'm really shocked about the fact that it's not and before this month is over 125 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:49,440 that would need to be corrected and you know it's imperative that I address the concerning 126 00:16:49,440 --> 00:17:00,480 issues of the Dent community being that we are a committee, we are not an ad hoc committee, 127 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:12,040 we are a standing committee, we meet regularly and we discuss business in our meetings and 128 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:25,560 when I spoke at the June 27th meeting regarding somehow we are having subcommittees after 129 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:32,920 we made a decision not to have subcommittees and they were labeled as task force committees, 130 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:44,240 they were labeled as aka finance meetings or a finance meeting group and some of our 131 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:51,160 counterparts that are on the committee had noticed that we did not vote on a subcommittee 132 00:17:51,160 --> 00:18:03,440 and you know I've noticed that we also came to a conclusion that oh my God an epiphany 133 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:12,200 this really is a subcommittee, it is not what it's supposed to be and I was really taken 134 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:23,440 back because to my face I was told basically a lie that it was not a subcommittee and then 135 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:29,680 in this it's on record saying that really it truly was a subcommittee so the article 136 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:37,160 came out for Denton Chronicle about the situation recently here and I believe that was past 137 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,640 Sunday that I didn't know that they were going to show up at the subcommittee but they did 138 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:52,880 and so when they noticed as well that it was labeled as such but really it was a subcommittee, 139 00:18:52,880 --> 00:19:00,360 subcommittees I looked up what the subcommittee quorum should be, I don't know if everybody 140 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:09,640 on the committee knows what a quorum is, what it's supposed to have been I believe okay 141 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:20,880 there's 19 of us all together on this committee and so as a body we would have to have half 142 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:28,840 of the people from that committee which would have been 10 and one over to be able to meet 143 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:45,280 quorum and so right now we have a situation where June 27th the chairman says on record 144 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:55,840 that you know we've met twice as you know a task force and well both of those meetings 145 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,400 would have had to be posted but that's not the case. 146 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:10,360 The case is when I looked online I did not see but one post for the subcommittee and 147 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:18,080 I don't know if everybody has also went ahead and done and I don't know if everybody received 148 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:27,040 the same email that I got on May 30th but we were told that you would need to be looking 149 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:35,120 at this video to be certified about what's supposed to happen with an open meetings act 150 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:45,120 and so when I looked at the video today all of everything that I have experienced which 151 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:54,000 I will label as abuse of oppression because I felt like I was not heard and other members 152 00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:01,160 on the committee have not been heard which would be to me being that the two that were 153 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:11,880 not heard in the draft minutes would be African American descent both of us is discrimination 154 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,560 and that is a part of abuse of oppression. 155 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:28,240 I am totally taken back about the opens meeting act because from my understanding it says 156 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:39,520 and I quote in order for members of a governmental body which is us subject to an open meetings 157 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:47,320 act are required to participate in education training sessions pursuant to section 551.005 158 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:55,080 of the Texas government code the training requirement applies to all elected or appointed 159 00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:03,560 officials who participate in meetings subject to OMA however it does not apply to public 160 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:11,040 officials who do not conduct business in meetings subject to OMA and further down it says the 161 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:18,640 law requires that the members subject to the OMA complete training within 90 days of taking 162 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:28,840 the oath of office or otherwise assuming the responsibility of office and if you go online 163 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,920 you can see this is public information through the Texas attorney general's office. 164 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:49,520 So that said that makes the subcommittee that has been having meetings with us hardly because 165 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:55,480 some of the people in the committee did not even know that this is going on so right there 166 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:04,520 is a violation right there the second is that the violation with not posting the meeting 167 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:11,040 for the first time that you guys had met you didn't even list the names in the open meetings 168 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:17,560 act you have to list the name the time and the date of when you guys met online I saw 169 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:28,600 the second meeting for I believe it's July no June I want to say June it's the date in 170 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:38,120 June that I have printed out and it was about the second meeting there was no names listed 171 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:46,440 there was no time and date it had the video but those things were imperative to be a part 172 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:54,360 of the drafting minutes and it was not and according to the open meetings act in order 173 00:23:54,360 --> 00:24:02,680 to have such participation you would have to meet quorum you would have to have those 174 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,840 dates and times people that you attended and you would have to have exactly everything 175 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:15,360 that was said in that meeting as a requirement in order to do it or you can't present whatever 176 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:22,500 you're trying to present to the committee because it would be considered a violation 177 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:31,320 because the public has to be able to be informed all the time when there's meetings like this 178 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:38,920 that has been brought to our attention and I can't do anything but I can't help but 179 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:47,880 to think who's responsible for allowing these subcommittees to go on even after we had a 180 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:55,360 vote not to have them they were disallowed I was kind of taken back to to notice that 181 00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:03,600 somebody an authority had to have allowed that so I looked on the video and I saw that 182 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:16,520 it's the city manager and I saw that you know the director of finance you know was a part 183 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:23,400 of allowing these meetings to continue now I'm sure that they've taken I could be wrong 184 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,480 I could be wrong but I'm sure that they've taken these open meetings at training for 185 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:35,400 certification but we also I have I also saw that we also have to take it within 90 days 186 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:46,360 and no May 30th is when we first got word of this so that means June 30th July 30th 187 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:57,240 that's only 60 days I'm like we we have to do this and then we're talking about the cities 188 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:07,480 in debt being in debt about how that article came out about the state giving funds you 189 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:15,040 know to the city and the city has not the city of didn't the citizens have not felt 190 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:22,320 like the money was spent properly and there was nothing that could be squeezed out of 191 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:31,400 that but yet I find out online that the city manager was still able he got he got here 192 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:43,800 in 2016 in 2018 he was able to squeeze out 4% of getting a raise and I thought that we 193 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:53,320 were in debt so I wasn't sure what what what's going on with how we're conducting things 194 00:26:53,320 --> 00:27:02,360 we can't go on Mr. Chair I'd like to ask if this is in order because you had minutes 195 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:08,240 minutes for approval on the floor and we don't have any kind of emotion we're just having 196 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:17,760 a speech could could I suggest could I suggest if that's the case if that's the case let's 197 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:23,160 vote on the minutes and then open open the floor for that but we have what is on the 198 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:30,840 floor is a motion on to approve the minutes from the June 27th meeting now there's a specific 199 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:37,040 thing that she wants to admit or to correct in the minutes let's correct the minutes but 200 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,280 but right now we're talking about a raise to the city manager which has nothing to do 201 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,960 with this bond election and due to the fact that I wasn't here for June 27th I don't 202 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,120 know if y'all heard about what happened why I wasn't here but that's why I would like 203 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:54,760 to hear what's going on what we're voting for so I would that's why I want to hear what 204 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:05,680 she has to say okay so this is this is a concern because as a body a governmental body such 205 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:16,880 as this we have issues before us that's brought to our attention and if we're not acting properly 206 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:25,000 towards the act you know we can't call ourselves an ad hoc meeting because it's not like we're 207 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,760 trying to do a festival and have you know a bunch of us just thinking about okay what 208 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,880 we're going to plan for that meeting and then we're not going to see each other again that's 209 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:41,520 what an ad hoc meeting our committee is but we are actually meeting regularly and conducting 210 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:50,360 business so that's what my concerns were I mean the quorum not being met you know being 211 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:58,320 another question when you say quorum was not met right for the for the full committee no 212 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,820 for this that the body members of the committee in order for you to do a subcommittee you 213 00:29:04,820 --> 00:29:11,880 would have to have what half of the people from the committee come and then one over 214 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:20,720 so half of 19 is 11 so wait when you did the subcommittee you only had seven people at 215 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:29,080 that yeah so it was like mr. chairman I'm sorry at the May 30th draft minutes it says 216 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:36,040 it was a task force correct what was were the because I was not I can't remember what 217 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:44,040 point I was here were the May 30th minutes approved yes yes so so it was a task force 218 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:54,180 that was created and I'm sorry I don't understand the the going from a task force to now a subcommittee 219 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:59,720 and I'm not sure if that's because in the meetings that I missed if there was a change 220 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:08,000 no thank you is there a chance that somebody could address the open like whether we actually 221 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:16,640 even fall under the open means at or is the city attorney here as he's coming up I will 222 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:23,640 point out that both the June 27th tight finance task force meeting was an open meeting that 223 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,040 was posted and we're approving the minutes for that meeting today it was open to all 224 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,060 committee members posted for the public obviously recorded for the public and the meeting today 225 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:38,480 for the finance committee the finance task force meeting was again posted open for the 226 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:44,060 open for the public and open for all members of the committee mr. chairman can I read from 227 00:30:44,060 --> 00:30:50,400 the May 30th minutes I'm sorry that there is some confusion but these are the minutes 228 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:57,440 that were approved part of them following a discussion on the committee's next direction 229 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:03,680 committee chair Pat Smith call for a motion to form a task force to focus on the bond 230 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,040 programs financing where to draw the funding line and based on affordability researching 231 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:15,280 and providing options etc. Tim Crouch made a motion to form a task force focusing on 232 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:27,400 the proposed bond programs financing I seconded the motion and the motion passed unanimously 233 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:33,520 which is what we approved in our minutes from May the 30th you advised mr. Gaines that the 234 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,520 task force meetings be scheduled separately from the committee's meetings and offered 235 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:49,160 staffs assistance with posting the meetings they've been posted also chairman Smith invited 236 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:55,280 any of the committee members who wanted to be involved in the task force to participate 237 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:01,600 by contacting Susan Parker so we were all offered the opportunity to serve on the task force 238 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:09,360 committee and the motion was approved unanimously they show a hands of everybody who thought 239 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:15,160 that we voted on as a committee as a whole does everybody remember that or do you guys 240 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:22,760 remember just doing it as a subcommittee yeah so let me let me get me right the task force 241 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,280 committee is to take a vote on what we've discussed and bring that back to the whole 242 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,320 committee correct correct we go over it right right okay for the point of clarification 243 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,040 the task force meetings are open to all committee members there will be no vote at those meetings 244 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,520 they will come back whoever attends those meetings I believe the intent and this is 245 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:46,040 from the committee itself is for them just to come back and speak about any considerations 246 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,360 that they had during those meetings there is no vote at any of the finance meetings 247 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,240 and again those are open to all committee members and we've not taken any vote and 248 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:06,160 you know Queen I have a point of order that if you have a comment on an amendment to meeting 249 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:12,880 minutes that have need to be corrected then make make a motion to amend the meeting minutes 250 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:20,600 I did what's the motion I you made a motion for us to go ahead and have us vote as a whole 251 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,280 there was not if that vote that there was a subcommittee after that it was after we 252 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,560 voted doesn't make any sense how y'all came it wasn't even like the whole like when I 253 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:38,760 mentioned it even on June 27 not everybody even knew that there was a vote for a subcommittee 254 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,200 at all there that's because there wasn't a vote for a subcommittee there was a vote for 255 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,600 a task force but people are getting there are really believing that that task force 256 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:56,040 is doing business in the meetings it's nowhere so discussing finance business we're discussing 257 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:01,760 finance business but in and correct me I'm wrong today but we are not taking any vote 258 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:08,720 on any motion which would be considered formal business all we're doing is formulating recommend 259 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:14,160 ations multiple recommendations which we intend to present tonight to the entire committee 260 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:22,960 and we were very careful not to vote on anything but simply to bring options to the full committee 261 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,400 which we intend to tonight but that opened to me abuse if have you ever done this before 262 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,480 that opens the meetings act yes yes so you would know that there would be no way that 263 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:41,960 you could present anything without you didn't have all of your all of not have to have all 264 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:48,640 of us there but you didn't even meet all the the quorum qualifications requirements well 265 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,920 I'm going to defer to the city attorney on that topic Larry calls to the city attorney's 266 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:58,480 office what I understand the minutes as they were read I was here for that meeting that's 267 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:04,160 what that's what occurred is that the task force was set up just for additional detailed 268 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:10,600 discussion by members of this body and that no formal action was going to be taken by 269 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,920 that body there's recommendations made by this by that task force this committee for 270 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,400 recommendation from this committee that else lady council that's all that was going on 271 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,120 it was posted to that it was also made available for everybody to show up and that there it 272 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:31,440 wasn't it's not two other it's only one showing for the posting for that for that for the 273 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,320 task force I'm just going off the records that I've viewed that have been posted online 274 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,760 in that in the minutes that have been approved yeah and unless somebody can point to where 275 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,200 there's been a specific violation I'm not seeing anything now that's not for me helping 276 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,520 to make the decision on that but I want you to understand is that what what the chair 277 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,800 is saying what other members are saying what the minutes reflect is that no decision is 278 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,960 being made to that task force task force with respect to the financing options are being 279 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,800 presented later they're just recommendations it's open for a full deliberation this evening 280 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,020 and so everybody sitting here at this table will have the ability to vote on every option 281 00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:18,880 that's either recommended or not recommended by the task force and so you're going to be 282 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:26,080 able to have your opportunity to entertain anything the floor is going to be wide open 283 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:32,400 for it so I just wouldn't recommend it I wouldn't recommend it but I definitely was able to 284 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:39,520 at least point out everything that I saw and you know like I said it's just you're not 285 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:48,520 really supposed to do it but now you know on record that it's been been said and heard 286 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:56,120 but if you continue to do it anyway okay yeah I wouldn't do it though I wouldn't do it 287 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:02,000 I wouldn't wouldn't do it I promise you I wouldn't do it what wouldn't you do I would 288 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:08,400 not I would not present to the committee anything that you've discussed because right now there's 289 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:17,400 no posting of the first meeting that you guys had to be meeting quorum and then the second 290 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:24,360 meeting did not have who was in the meeting the time or the date and that's the requirement 291 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,720 through the attorney general I wouldn't do it I wouldn't do it I wouldn't do it noted 292 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:35,840 thank you so I have a question with what she's stating there are several different meetings 293 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,480 that we've had that I had some concerns about Southeast Denton was that anywhere in the 294 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:50,520 meetings is that has that been brought up or I think it's in a tonight's meeting yeah 295 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:57,520 item 2d on the next item on the agenda will address Southeast Denton and the projects 296 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:02,880 are associated with shopping sit in the bond program do you agree though that David that's 297 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:10,960 a broad when you sent me that email about that it's for 70 million dollars and it's 298 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,480 only saying what's the term they're giving it it didn't name like how you're naming 299 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:24,000 Bonnie Ray Ray okay and how you're naming Hickory you're naming those I think that's 300 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,620 a great discussion to have when we get the to be I think okay I would like to move approval 301 00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:53,200 of the June 27th meeting all three I'll second that motion any discussion other discussion 302 00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:01,720 all in favor approving the June 20th June 27th and June 3 p.m. and June 27th at 6 p.m. 303 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:19,400 meeting minutes raise your right hand all opposed same sign motion passes all right 304 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:28,440 moving on to item to be take your way David good evening committee we're going to take 305 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,600 this opportunity to just touch on the projects at a high level and some changes to recent 306 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,760 changes that have just kind of changed some of our cost that just happened in the past 307 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,840 a couple of days I will say up to this point we've now presented all projects within within 308 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:50,400 the considerations for the bond program so this is obviously an opportunity to ask any 309 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:56,800 questions whether referencing former presentations or questions that you have regarding any program 310 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,800 this is a definitely an opportunity for that and we have staff here that could address 311 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:06,080 any of those projects I want to I want to start off the presentation by touching on our 312 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,960 public public safety facility projects just in the past couple of days we've had some 313 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,040 revisions to our estimates for the public safety facilities and obviously they're significant 314 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,400 and we wanted to bring this to the committee as soon as possible we engage in estimating 315 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:27,560 firm peak program value to review all of our all of our costs for these facility projects 316 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:32,920 for the police station renovation for the police substation for in for fire station 317 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,160 eight this is now the fourth review we've had of those dollars starting initially with 318 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:43,040 the city staff estimate and then going into our architect X estimate and the architect 319 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:48,160 even used an estimating firm but as we go forward we wanted to make sure that we felt 320 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,320 confident in the numbers so we brought in another firm to come in and take a hard look 321 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:59,600 at the cost this is a firm that has a nationwide footprint has worked with Louisville city 322 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,440 of Louisville quite a bit is currently working with the city of Richardson so we really take 323 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,760 a lot of value in their estimates and their opinion so they took a look at look at the 324 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:14,120 projects and you can see here in total they're recommending that we increase our cost estimates 325 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,040 by about twenty one million dollars between the two projects together an increase of close 326 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,880 to twelve million dollars for the police renovation and an increase of about nine and a half million 327 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:30,400 dollars for the police substation that increase at twenty one million dollar increase about 328 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,480 five million of that is just strictly construction costs so the construction estimates that we 329 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,320 had moving forward were pretty close to where we are now with this new estimate the remainder 330 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,000 of that delta between the five million and the twenty one million that additional sixteen 331 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:51,240 million is driven by these factors listed here the largest being an increased amount 332 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:57,240 for contingency and for cost inflation over the two three years that the project will 333 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:02,600 actually be going on until completion of the project the initial estimates did have an 334 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:08,000 amount for contingency and inflation but it was definitely a much lower amount than the 335 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,520 new estimators that have come in and looked at what we should really consider in these 336 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:18,680 costs should be so we feel more comfortable going with this larger amount for contingency 337 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:26,000 and inflation for these projects but it does have an impact on the total amount total dollar 338 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,440 amount I think from a staff perspective the worst thing we could do is go forward with 339 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:38,240 a bond election have a bond election approved eventually and be underfunded on these projects 340 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,000 there has been a number of months since our initial initial estimate in February or so 341 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,440 or even prior so the time time difference is going to have some some impact on that 342 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,440 as costs have increased but also I think it's a philosophical difference in how these estimators 343 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:57,900 have looked at the projects that have driven that increase the other the second second 344 00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:02,200 largest increase in the dollar amounts in these estimates compared to the former estimates 345 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:07,920 are for infrastructure for IT security and AV systems these are obviously very significant 346 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:14,420 at any police station or substation and those increases are two to three million dollars 347 00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:20,880 more now in this revised estimate than we had previously and given the nature of those 348 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:27,320 items at a police station we feel it's important that we include those those enhanced numbers 349 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,560 the remainder of the items here are not as significant as those top two and the construction 350 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,740 cost increases but we are now anticipating increased design engineering costs some professional 351 00:43:38,740 --> 00:43:43,960 services that weren't included initially for material testing and then increased cost 352 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:49,560 for the furnitures and fixtures that are needed to fill out the buildings so again 353 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,320 we wanted to bring this to you as as soon as possible as soon as we got the numbers 354 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,640 especially as we're heading into that discussion with the committee of prioritization and ultimately 355 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,200 to decisions in the next couple of meetings so I'll open it up for any questions that 356 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:13,160 you have on this right now before before I continue microphone what is the estimated 357 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:19,160 completion of both of these projects in other words knowing the increase we have per month 358 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:27,400 just for roads do you see where this went is this actually enough well we feel like 359 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,960 this is enough we feel like we like this is this is a good dollar amount we would issue 360 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,360 these funds in 2021 the remainder of these funds in 2020 and 2021 and the project would 361 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:45,560 complete in 2022 thank you they did look at the fire station we have a preliminary estimate 362 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:51,840 on that it may it may vary slightly but it won't be anything anything close to us right 363 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,840 oh yes for sure 364 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:39,400 yeah $200,000 $400,000 over a million 1.3 Karen did you have a question Nathan did you 365 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:48,120 have a question John we had earlier talked about building a new police department if 366 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:54,120 you're really asking this kind of costs isn't it not more feasible to go ahead scratch this 367 00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:03,720 and build a new police department you figured someone would ask that the our initial estimates 368 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,560 on the the new police station was about 20 million dollars more than what we're seeing 369 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,080 here so basically what happened when they went through and did the estimating they've 370 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,800 got recent bids from the Richardson project and they just finished up one in in Louisville 371 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,680 what they're saying is if you're carrying out these projects for the next 36 months 372 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:27,760 you've significantly underestimated the amount of that so I of the carry that you're going 373 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,920 to have to see a new the renovation project if we built new you're going to acquire additional 374 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,160 land and you're probably looking at another 20 to 25 million above and beyond what you're 375 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:42,280 seeing here it was it was not even a close Delta which is why we decided with the same 376 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,440 money back then we were discussing do we go ahead and build the substation so the chiefs 377 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:52,560 cut the ability to to put folks out in the areas out near Robeson and from that area 378 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,560 and they're not having to fight to get downtown and get out of their districts that long and 379 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,400 centralize it or do you just build a larger station and try and come up with a different 380 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,760 solution so when we added the two projects together we were pretty close to building 381 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:15,480 a new station itself I was doing a lot of research and I found in Round Rock for example 382 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:21,840 they use all their fire stations as police substations that would give you seven or eight 383 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:29,400 substations across the city and they do that simply by having small substations that the 384 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,120 unit can go to and they can download and do all their data and basically they don't have 385 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:41,800 to assign desks it's more like what you see where they share the desk sure so for Round 386 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,960 Rock specifically since I came from central Texas their city is not spread out as much 387 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,320 as we are it's a lot more condensed and compact where you can get away with doing that the 388 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,400 problem you have having officers working out of fire stations is you don't have a secure 389 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:04,080 way to drop off evidence evidence has to be secured for chain of custody you can't transport 390 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:09,880 prisoners to the substation to a fire station to stop and interview them you can't meet 391 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,520 complainants at fire stations to take interviews from or reports from they still have to take 392 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,800 all them back to their main police station downtown so because they're not as spread 393 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:26,760 out as we are it's very easy to do that to be able to work out of one police station 394 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,880 as we continue to grow it will be virtually impossible for us to do that without having 395 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:40,100 police officers out of their districts for a long period of time that was one of your 396 00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:45,720 issues before was they couldn't stop in the parking lot and do their report but they could 397 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:56,000 go to a fire station and do that Chief what's your take on this in terms of cost growth 398 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:15,560 and do you have I defer to David Gaines honest answer for the extra 21 million are we getting 399 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:26,680 exactly what we had estimated or proposed that's it's no no extra benefits thrown in 400 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:33,640 in other words it's still you didn't cut scope to get scope hasn't the scope remained the 401 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:39,080 same and we just simply had new sets of eyes based on brand and most recent pricing says 402 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,520 how those were developed in terms of are we getting exactly need I'm gonna leave that 403 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,240 up to chief dancers I'm gonna use part of that design yeah definitely we are we are 404 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:53,480 getting exactly and that was a lot of the thought process before we even put together 405 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:59,080 a package to come forward with was to make sure that we wouldn't be recreating this process 406 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:11,400 again we're talking 30 40 years down the road I have one question only because we're looking 407 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:17,440 at this now going to City Council for you know we make a recommendation from this committee 408 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:25,960 to Council and then it goes on the November ballot voted yes or no how much more of an 409 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:33,720 increase between now and November or January when this starts have we looked at those increases 410 00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:42,080 as well yes this these numbers were grossed up using current bid numbers and inflationary 411 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:47,920 factors to assume that we would have about a 36-month window so as long as and I've 412 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,880 been working with staff in order to move around some of the timing of the projects to make 413 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,440 sure that the public safety projects would be the first ones in the gate to try to stem 414 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:03,320 that we feel like we've got in I got a question this earlier today about the the road projects 415 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:08,640 that we definitely feel like we've got adequate contingency and inflationary escalation bill 416 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,420 on those based upon our even our most recent bids that we've left so both of those we feel 417 00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:19,720 like we're comfortable for the next duration of bond program chief I have a question and 418 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:33,200 I'm sorry if I remember correct we wanted to do the substation first so that then functions 419 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:39,120 at the main station to move out to the substation correct which would then allow a phased renovation 420 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:44,560 of the main police station correct that's still that is still the plan yes sir so there 421 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:52,360 is a there is a linkage between the two if if you deferred the substation my guess is 422 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,200 there's going to be some additional cost to the renovation because you're not going to 423 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:04,680 have to create swing space is that a is that a term yeah swing space is a term you have 424 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:09,240 to create swing space for those functions that we're going to renovate to move to you 425 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:14,600 renovate and move them back correct accurate statement that is very accurate if we take 426 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:20,040 the substation out and we're only doing dealing with the station downtown we will have to 427 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:26,960 think of some way to move personnel around while it's being renovated whether it's bringing 428 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:36,960 in you know mobile buildings or repurposing space okay I think I think one of the other 429 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:42,280 things that we've also tried to do is we've been talking about going to a general construction 430 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:47,160 manager risk project contract for both buildings so they can coordinate both subs you know 431 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:55,760 concrete plumbing whatever it is and make the most of those efficiencies so this is 432 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,320 a pretty big change in price tag any other questions 433 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:12,360 so the tax rate assumptions were that 210 million was sort of no effect on the tax rate 434 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:20,720 is this now going to affect the tax rate well I will get we'll get into that discussion 435 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:27,400 here if we stay at the 210 we still feel the total tax rate will not go over our current 436 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,840 total tax rate and and I can just kind of jump to this quickly and this was in the finance 437 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,120 presentation that was sent to everyone along with additional backup information that went 438 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,840 along with that finance presentation but you can see if and I think right now we're at 439 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,280 a point where we feel comfortable going forward a five percent increase assumption and assessed 440 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:51,480 values that would be a four cent increase a max four cent increase on the debt service 441 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:58,400 tax rate specifically but it would keep us below the total tax rate at 210 if we were 442 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,200 were to go up and just add this additional amount and go up to 230 million dollars we're 443 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,080 going to run the numbers and get the increase will probably be about five and a half cents 444 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:12,600 on the debt service tax rate side that might take us over that total tax rate in one or 445 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,800 two years just for one or two years of that of the six-year window that's something that 446 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,240 we're going to run the numbers on to see what the impact on the total tax rate would be 447 00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:31,760 how are you all calculating what the tax revenue is going to be when the appraisal district 448 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:38,240 challenges are ongoing and I was notified that mine wouldn't even be scheduled till possibly 449 00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:46,200 November we're taken as educated of a guess as I can we we get we get assessed preliminary 450 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:51,160 reports on our assessed value we get 15 preliminary reports before our final report we've met 451 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,680 we just got our 15th report last Friday so we have two weeks net from now we'll get our 452 00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:01,680 final certified values based on trends and last year how those values have decreased 453 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:06,500 I've made some assumptions on where we might end up in assessed values but it's a variable 454 00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:12,040 out there the appraisal district has said they've had the record number of protests 455 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,640 so it is something that in two weeks we'll get our certified values and that'll be our 456 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,600 final number that we work from but up until that point we are making the best estimate 457 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,640 that we can and what the assessed value will be even though it will clearly be changing 458 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:31,840 all the way up to the protests I know they're doing commercial first and residential second 459 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:37,080 so basically the numbers that we have now we have our preliminary value we've reduced 460 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,520 that significantly anticipating those drops but you know it could be even more than we 461 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,520 anticipated. 462 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:56,420 David would you want to show the historical chart that you showed earlier? 463 00:55:56,420 --> 00:56:04,720 So as we're discussing a 5% AV growth assumption here you can see our AV growth since 2008 464 00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:09,840 we picked 2008 so that we could see kind of the impact of a recession if it were to come 465 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,360 obviously having one in 2008 and you always have somewhat delayed effect on property values 466 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:19,440 after a recession as they drop so you can see that we had that drop there but since 467 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:26,240 2011 we've had steady increases with significant increases from 2014 on currently we're estimating 468 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:34,680 a total increase in AV of about 8.8% if we look at just non-frozen values which obviously 469 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,320 we have our we have the tax freeze in place now our second year of the tax freeze it's 470 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:44,020 about 7.3% which is really the number that would be in our forecast so that's 7.3% increase 471 00:56:44,020 --> 00:56:47,400 on those non-frozen values that we're looking at right now. 472 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:56,680 And David compared old versus new growth what are those ratios or those amounts? 473 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:04,120 Our new growth is around $420 million, $430 million and our total assessed value is around 474 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:08,160 $11 billion. 475 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:16,440 So new growth is about four tenths of a percent of the total tax base so if you're saying 476 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:28,800 well we've got new growth we're putting an eye dropper in the ocean. 477 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:49,560 Then that average is including the recession is six percent. 478 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:59,880 Alright do you want to go move on to the current project costs? 479 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:04,880 So a lot of numbers up here obviously but I thought it was important to just show from 480 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,440 a high level view what this change does to our total options. 481 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,440 You can see these are the estimates we've been working on and these numbers have obviously 482 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,640 tweaked and changed especially on the roadway project as we've gone through the process 483 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:22,400 notably on Ryan Road which decreased significantly when we saw the impact of Hickory Creek. 484 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:29,320 But you can see in total for our proposition for public safety facilities that estimate 485 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:37,780 has now increased from $45.5 million to $66.9 million including the police station renovation, 486 00:58:37,780 --> 00:58:42,440 fire station aid, substation and firing range and I will note the order that we have these 487 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:48,520 in are these are the staff recommended how we would prioritize the projects for each 488 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:53,080 proposition with the renovation first, fire station aid second and then down on the roadways 489 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,640 Bonnie Grand, Hickory Creek. 490 00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:02,160 So obviously what that does is we're at to stay at the two hundred and ten million dollar 491 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:08,480 mark we would either you know do something different in public safety facilities or do 492 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:15,280 something less in the roadways on one of the roadway projects or we would increase the 493 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:20,840 pie from the two ten to take into account the increased estimate for the public safety 494 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,560 facilities. 495 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,560 Any questions, comments? 496 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:38,880 So again I just one thing to point out and this is brought up at a previous meeting so 497 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,680 as we consider going up over the two hundred and ten our estimate is about fourteen million 498 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:48,400 if we add fourteen million dollars that would equate to a cent on the tax rate for that 499 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:53,720 max increase and again that max increase just means in one year we go that high it doesn't 500 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,760 mean we're going to be up to the max each of the six years of the program it's just 501 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:02,520 we hit that in one year but by the nature of debt service that fluctuates down following 502 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:03,520 that. 503 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,880 So fourteen million dollars and that's how we got to the point where we say that twenty 504 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:12,120 million is about a cent and a half increase over what we're showing here to say we're 505 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:16,600 at twenty million now so that's fourteen plus the six. 506 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:26,440 Sorry could you go back one slide on the Ryan Road, on the Ryan Road the total cost and 507 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:34,480 then the updated why did it go from ten million ten to twenty five million on the original 508 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,480 and then down to four to nineteen million. 509 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,600 That amount decreased more than that previously what this is showing here is just the four 510 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,160 to nineteen million would be the city funding up the funds in the bond program the additional 511 01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,160 amount would be funds from other sources. 512 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:56,760 That amount did decrease from other iterations but that old amount's not included on the 513 01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:57,760 bond program. 514 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:58,760 Thank you. 515 01:00:58,760 --> 01:00:59,760 So I do have a quick question. 516 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:00,760 Sure. 517 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,760 On the street rehab program it has seventy million right? 518 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,840 Southeast Dent is part of that correct? 519 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:08,840 Correct. 520 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,920 How much of that is actually going toward Southeast Dent? 521 01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,500 Ten point eight million of the seventy million on the street rehab program is going toward 522 01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:20,000 Southeast Dent. 523 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:25,680 So if I can just jump to this quickly and give you a view of our estimates right now 524 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:31,040 for the time of the bond program in Southeast Denton we're estimating close to eleven million 525 01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:35,640 dollars in the street rehab program about a half million dollars of the twelve million 526 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,520 dollar sidewalks program would be devoted to Southeast Denton for a total of eleven 527 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,200 point three included in the bond program in Southeast Denton. 528 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,200 We've also shown some of the other funding that won't be included in the bond program 529 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,200 but especially on the water. 530 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,520 Wastewater is really tied to a lot of the projects that would be going on with the street 531 01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:52,520 rehab program. 532 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,000 We're estimating about twelve point four million dollars in investment from our utility 533 01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:01,240 funding would go toward Southeast Denton and then another two point five million dollars 534 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,560 just for our regular maintenance that's paid through for our operating street fund would 535 01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:09,680 go toward Southeast Denton over the life of this bond. 536 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:15,720 Okay so as being a resident and a business owner in Southeast Denton ten point eight 537 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,640 million we pay taxes over there as well. 538 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,960 Almost every street in Southeast Denton has potholes, not potholes, potholes and needs 539 01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:31,300 repair not just continuing to patch the potholes we need the streets to be repaired. 540 01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:38,400 So where does this come in and how much of the bond funds previously have been spent 541 01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,240 on repairing Southeast Denton? 542 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:48,400 Todd, as the City Engineer as far as what previous bond dollars actually went into Southeast 543 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,520 Denton I'd have to go investigate that. 544 01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:54,000 I don't know the answer to that one off the top of my head. 545 01:02:54,000 --> 01:03:05,760 What I can show you is what David was talking about is there are several different avenues 546 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,600 that we would go down for every street so not every street in Southeast Denton falls 547 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:15,400 into that below 45 OCI category so it's yes it's got some potholes but there are certain 548 01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,820 areas where we don't have to rebuild the entire street from the foundation of the roadway 549 01:03:19,820 --> 01:03:24,120 all the way to the top where you're seeing a lot of potholes obviously there's something 550 01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,040 going on but we don't necessarily have to rebuild the street from the bottom up that's 551 01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,880 where the bond dollars go in that other two and a half million dollars the vast majority 552 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:38,040 of that would be what we would call a mill and overlay so most of those streets are asphalt 553 01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:43,000 roadways so a mill and overlay we actually bring in the machine that chews up the entire 554 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,840 top layer of the roadway and it can go as deep as six to eight inches which would be 555 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,960 well lower than any of the potholes you're seeing out there and then we would rebuild 556 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:56,940 the entire street from that eight inches up those places are those places so you'll see 557 01:03:56,940 --> 01:03:59,880 these areas on this map up here I don't know if you can see it all that well from where 558 01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:06,280 you're at so any of these lines that are in green are roadways and this was as early or 559 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,240 as late as yet just earlier today we went and just double checked to make sure we had 560 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:17,880 the same the right information but the green areas are areas that it just need it needs 561 01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:22,080 an oil change kind of like your car needs an oil change just to keep going so some of 562 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:26,800 those areas and you'll see it's it's a fairly small area in that entire southeast 563 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,040 dentin area but you're the green lines are where we would come and put a new surface 564 01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:36,580 layer very thin layer on top so that it would last a much longer time these areas in yellow 565 01:04:36,580 --> 01:04:41,380 probably we're seeing a lot more of the potholes along with the areas in red so these areas 566 01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:45,920 in red we would rebuild the entire roadway from the foundation of the roadway which is 567 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:52,080 a good 24 to 30 inches deep in some places all the way back up so it's a brand new road 568 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:57,040 then the areas that you see in yellow the foundation of the road still in good shape 569 01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:01,880 but it's that top course that needs to be ground down and replaced so that you don't 570 01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,240 have that pothole condition and and that would be these areas in yellow 571 01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:11,040 well some of the areas that i see that are in yellow and they you say that it's just 572 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:16,840 the top just where the potholes but if you go back and look these are just have been 573 01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:22,680 just repaired over and over and i feel like if you stop just repairing it and just fix 574 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,840 what needs to be fixed then that'll save as well 575 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:30,640 so a pothole repair is different from a mill and overlay so a pothole repair which you've 576 01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:36,400 been saying is i come in fill in that hole and just move on and hope that it lasts for 577 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,400 a while that's not what a mill and overlay is mill and overlay i'm gonna come in and 578 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:46,080 do the entire road so that's exactly what we're talking we're rebuilding the entire 579 01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:51,680 road what you typically get with a pothole is there's been a crack or something that 580 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:56,240 started to develop a hole you see it throughout denton then over time as cars continue to 581 01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:00,960 run over it or we get into the cold weather when we get that one or two freezes a year 582 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,760 here i mean we don't get that many but when you get a few of them water gets in there 583 01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:09,320 and it sits and then it freezes and when water freezes it expands that makes the roadway 584 01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,440 tear itself up even faster and then the cars continue to roll over just on and on and on 585 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:18,360 so those potholes just get bigger and if you don't address them when they're really small 586 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,520 then you get what you've got right now in so many places in denton you've got just a 587 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:28,040 lot of potholes the bottom of that is still good but that top six to eight inches sometimes 588 01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,440 it's even nine inches depending on where you're in town that's the part we would be grinding 589 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:37,120 all the way down to the bottom all the way across the entire width of the roadway for 590 01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:43,040 the entire length of that roadway and i do understand the difference um and i still feel 591 01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:50,800 like a lot of the streets in southeast didn't need to have the total repair um there's you 592 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,040 go down one street sometimes you feel like you're going down a hill or up a hill and 593 01:06:55,040 --> 01:07:01,920 it's supposed to be a straightaway so there's 15 roughly 15 lane miles that we've identified 594 01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:07,640 it's 16 we call it 63 seconds but it's 15 lane miles of roadway in that southeast denton 595 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:12,600 area that absolutely has to be broken all the way down to the foundation rebuild the 596 01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:17,560 foundation all the way back up you're 100 right and that's where the vast majority of 597 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:22,760 the bond money spent in this area would go so that nearly 11 million dollars would go 598 01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:29,480 to that over that 15 lane miles then you've got about another four lane miles that wouldn't 599 01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:34,800 get rebuilt it would get that milling overlay we'd come down nine inches and put nine brand 600 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:39,860 new inches or whatever the width the however deep the actual asphalt is we put a brand 601 01:07:39,860 --> 01:07:44,760 new coat across the entire thing the entire width entire length down for the asphalt to 602 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:51,320 the top of the foundation and then you'd have another eight lane miles still in good condition 603 01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:57,680 we just need to overtop it and just give it a longer life i had uh previously in previous 604 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:03,520 meetings requested some information um for southeast denton that some say i can find 605 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:08,040 it online but i was advised that it would be given to me i still haven't received that 606 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,960 i do i would like to receive it can you remind me what that information is um i asked about 607 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:18,840 when the last time the roads were repaired in southeast denton i did ask as well about 608 01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:24,480 when was the how much was spent to repair the roads in southeast denton and um on the 609 01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:30,520 out of the bond money previously as well um i was advised at the meeting that i asked well 610 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:34,120 we'll we don't have it now but we'll get it for your next meeting we didn't have it next 611 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:39,280 meeting my sincere apologies we have been doing a lot of things and we missed that one so 612 01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:44,320 we will make sure that that gets taken care of therese we can make sure that's in the 613 01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:44,800 meeting minutes 614 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:51,920 tog can you explain a little bit what's going to happen to locust and elm over the next year or 615 01:08:51,920 --> 01:09:02,320 two yes i'm sorry i'm sorry i thought you were done no come on when i go southeast didn't y'all 616 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:11,120 know i'm stuck for um on the street repair it didn't the 70 million for that area stayed 617 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:17,520 the same with everyone else increasing or why didn't it increase in that area because due to 618 01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:25,040 the fact that southeast didn't doesn't have any sidewalks there's no so i understand the new 619 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:32,160 areas being built they want sidewalks but i feel like instead of building sidewalks in areas that 620 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:37,680 really don't need it repair the streets that need to be repaired not only in southeast didn't there's 621 01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:43,360 some downtown as well so instead of building sidewalks why don't we repair these streets 622 01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,680 because the new neighborhoods don't just actually need sidewalks 623 01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:53,600 i'm not sure i'm following where you're going if you're asking do you want to address that 624 01:09:53,600 --> 01:10:01,200 so the uh so the original dollar amount that we had for the street rehab program 625 01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,880 when we started the committee was 35 million dollars so we've we've increased that to 70 626 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:08,240 million dollars and that was a result of the previous meeting where we said we want to make 627 01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:15,680 sure we get everything below the 20 oci for the bond for the street quality plus the neighborhoods 628 01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:22,880 that were specified as far as the discussion between sidewalks and the street rehab program 629 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:27,280 i think that's a discussion for the committee to have as you start talking about prioritizations 630 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:32,880 and and what the ultimate uh recommendation for the bond program is and not to go back but 631 01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:38,400 the young man that came up here first that mentioned that he's in a rural area and about 632 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:46,240 adding the streets out there if it's not a lot of traffic out there why aren't why are we repairing 633 01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:51,280 and making making streets wider out there in that area when we have streets here that need to be 634 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:58,000 repaired there are quite a few reasons for that it's the growth of the community it's where we're 635 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:04,160 already seeing a lot of traffic but there's also the funding ability to grab to be able to get 636 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:09,360 funds from other resources to help us make that happen so the 36 million we're actually identifying 637 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:16,000 here resolves a tragic scenario that has occurred multiple times over over the last 30 years multiple 638 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:22,080 fatalities multiple accidents they recur that occur annually at the intersection just east of 639 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:30,080 the intersection of um let me call it of 1830 and hickory creek i mean most everybody i believe saw 640 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:36,160 the the news earlier this year and it's it's this segment of hickory creek road that comes to 1830 641 01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,640 there is a significant amount of traffic that travels that way on a daily basis as they commute 642 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:45,120 to work and then come home as well as trying to get over to the high school on one side and multiple 643 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:50,640 elementary schools in the area it's an area that is growing there's multiple development 644 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:55,040 multiple developments coming into this area they're actively coming in they're 645 01:11:55,040 --> 01:12:00,640 coming to council very soon or they are under construction in the area immediately to the north 646 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:08,080 the 36 million we're asking for now that would be in the bond would even if nobody else threw extra 647 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:14,560 money into the kitty to make this thing go further it would construct three lanes brand new with the 648 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:21,440 bridge all the way over to 1830 and resolve a current safety concern as well as improve the 649 01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:25,440 capacity and volume in the area so people can get back and forth quicker and safer 650 01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:32,000 so that that resolves that but it also unlocks a bunch of funding potential from other entities 651 01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,720 that help us go further with those dollars now instead of waiting until they got super expensive 652 01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:45,440 down the road i know i brought this up previously but everyone in southeast didn't just like everyone 653 01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:53,120 else pay taxes southeast didn't didn't get their streets repaired or started working on them until 654 01:12:53,120 --> 01:13:01,280 the late 60s early 70s but was paying taxes this whole time right so due to the point that we were 655 01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:10,240 paying taxes are we getting that refunded saw that smile sorry no what one of the struggles we have 656 01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:15,280 throughout the city didn't because the streets maintenance program was neglected across the city 657 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:22,400 for so long that taxes still over time weren't keeping pace because of the way they were diverted 658 01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:28,720 and i can't answer the reasons why i don't know who or what groups made those decisions 659 01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:34,000 i can only tell you where we're planning to go right now and that's a recognition that not just 660 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:40,240 because not just because there's an underserved put a portion of the city that infrastructure is 661 01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:45,120 old it needs to be replaced just like we have a lot of aging infrastructure throughout the city 662 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,880 and it is one of the areas that needs the most attention right now that's why it is one of the 663 01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:55,040 prime candidates and has been from the very start of the discussion for this program for this bond 664 01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:01,280 program was to have this segment of town be in this bond program it was a prime focus here 665 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,480 i have a lot of people that have voiced their concerns about due to the fact that we are in 666 01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:12,400 southeast denton we're across the tracks that we forgot about no one cares because we are in 667 01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:18,720 southeast denton so okay let's just patch this up and they'll be happy and let's leave them alone 668 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:26,880 so that's how they're it's going way back so that's why it's a big concern southeast is a 669 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:32,080 real concern it's like you know we pay taxes like everyone else and now you're telling out of 70 670 01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:38,720 million we're only getting 11 million when taxes have been paid bonds have been done previously 671 01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:46,400 and streets need to be repaired we're been without sidewalks okay if get sidewalks fine if not fine 672 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:52,080 but the streets do need to be repaired half the time if you pass a car in one of the streets in 673 01:14:52,080 --> 01:15:00,480 southeast denton you have to pull over to the side so one car can go by so that's why my concern is 674 01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:05,840 we're worried about these new areas about having sidewalks and all of this what about the areas we 675 01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:12,560 have now well and that is where the 70 million is focused on these roadways is on all of these areas 676 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:18,000 because it southeast end is an area of town there are a lot of other areas in town that also have 677 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:23,120 aging infrastructure and they fall into that same category that's a neglect that was prior to me 678 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:29,280 prior to you i mean there was a neglect that was there and how do we start making traction somewhere 679 01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:35,280 we have to start at some point that's where we are today previous bond packages didn't even 680 01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:39,440 begin to approach 70 million dollars on the transportation side when it came to just these 681 01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:43,680 roadways neighborhood streets the local streets this is the first time i've ever seen the city 682 01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:49,280 of denton actually go into 70 million dollars targeted to those streets and that is absolutely 683 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:55,520 what the conversation is for you all is as we prioritize this where do you see the priorities 684 01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:02,240 where do you as a body want to go because i agree there are so many places to start where do you pick 685 01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:09,920 you know you're looking at a program here that would engage full reconstruction of the streets 686 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:15,040 that really are just like anywhere else in town really are in bad shape and need to be completely 687 01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:20,160 reconstructed and that includes the water the wastewater the drainage everything and that's 688 01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:24,000 what you're seeing here is if you look at the numbers that we were putting together 689 01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:37,200 these numbers here reflect a complete reconstruction of infrastructure within 690 01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:41,680 that entire neighborhood there are three other neighborhoods that we're also targeting to go 691 01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:47,280 into this bond program and then every other street within the city that's 20 oci or less that's in 692 01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:52,080 that 70 million dollar number for just the streets but there's other funding sources the water 693 01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:57,360 revenue funds wastewater revenue funds that help bolster that number through other ways so the total 694 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:02,640 expense when it comes to infrastructure in these areas has greatly increased beyond just the 10 or 695 01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:06,880 11 million dollars to the roadway because that's what it costs to rebuild the road the total 696 01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:13,600 investment into southeast denton and other places is a much bigger number so southeast denton goes 697 01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:20,880 from 11.3 million to get sidewalks near the school to put in the roadway reconstruction plus 698 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:26,320 maintenance dollars that would go into the entire neighborhood and then you're going to put in 699 01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:31,680 additional water wastewater revenue to upgrade all the utilities in that area as well it's aging 700 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:36,800 just as much as the roadway you're talking about a total expense of 25 to 26 million dollars 701 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:44,560 just in that neighborhood if you're asking can we spend more from an engineer's perspective 702 01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:49,600 i don't see more to be spent not because you couldn't widen roadways you could but if i'm 703 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,720 rebuilding the current roadways that's what it costs to rebuild them 704 01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:02,720 you go back to the the one with the all the roads of the yellow and the green and the red 705 01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:12,960 you're really you're reconstructing close to 15 lane miles in southeast denton yes right for 706 01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:26,880 can't read that number 8.6 million yes have y'all been to southeast this is my neighborhood yeah 707 01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:33,680 so my thing of it is some people just drive through there every now and then some of us live 708 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:39,040 there right so to go through there every day and you need the same thing every day i've actually 709 01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,680 walked down every street in southeast dent and knocked on several doors asking how they felt 710 01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:53,040 about the streets and this is why i'm giving the feedback this is what i get i have the elderly i 711 01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:59,360 have a woman not too far from she's not too far from walmart she lives in the apartment she's in 712 01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,320 an electrical wheelchair there's still a dirt road over there that she has to go down with her 713 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:11,920 wheelchair so i'm like hmm wait a minute this this this isn't right so that's why i'm bringing it up 714 01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:17,680 i'm bringing up the concerns not just for me but from my neighborhood but in for particular 715 01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:23,440 scenarios like that because we have that in a lot of places in town where we have to go investigate 716 01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:28,400 is work with the homeowner the property owner and find out what is the condition we have ada 717 01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:34,240 resources that need to be provided throughout the city they just they're lacking it's it's years of 718 01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:40,960 not taking care of that infrastructure that we're trying to catch up with now as well as i've got to 719 01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:45,520 determine how much of where she is right now the particular person you're talking about is 720 01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,840 is it on private property or is it in public property is it something i've got to go acquire 721 01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:55,200 property is it i don't know without talking to that particular person i don't know and so many 722 01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,360 of those circumstances are just individual conversations and we'd be happy to talk to them 723 01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:07,040 absolutely no absolutely talk are you sorry for if i make a comment or question 724 01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:14,080 in previous bond packages we've shown where dollars were being spent by district is that 725 01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:19,600 something you could bring back next week's meeting sure that way i think would help answer 726 01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:25,600 some questions yeah the other question i had earlier is could you explain what's going to 727 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:31,280 happen to locust and elm because i feel like that's something that we're we're not seeing 728 01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:38,480 but it's going to have a significant impact on that area of town sure so so locust and elm so 729 01:20:38,480 --> 01:20:43,520 eagle is down this way on this map and you got locust and elm going north and south we're redoing 730 01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:49,280 all the utilities in that corridor right now so there's a lot of massive drainage infrastructure 731 01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:54,960 that has to go in right now and water wastewater infrastructure that is being replaced those items 732 01:20:54,960 --> 01:21:00,640 are actually under construction now they've just gotten started with the relocation of the franchise 733 01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:05,280 utilities so we've we've already had a couple of times we've had to close a couple of roadways 734 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:12,480 because we found a gas line we didn't know was there so we're working that area ahead of tex dot 735 01:21:12,480 --> 01:21:16,720 coming in as soon as we relocate those utilities tex dot will come in and they will reconstruct 736 01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:21,120 elm and locust and they're not just starting going to the downtown area they're going to go 737 01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:27,040 all the way up to university drive upon completion of that project so we have an add-on to what's 738 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:31,760 going on here on the south side of downtown we're also going to be going to the north side for about 739 01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:36,400 90 through the plans on that one where we'll be relocating all the utilities and providing drainage 740 01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:42,640 infrastructure there with tex dot coming in right behind us as quickly as I can to repave all those 741 01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:50,240 roadways so utility reconstruction will last into next year roadway will start to get reconstructed 742 01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:55,280 through probably towards the end of next summer provided that the weather works with us and we're 743 01:21:55,280 --> 01:22:00,560 not fighting the weather like we have been they'll start repaving locust they'll work north university 744 01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:05,760 drive about that time we'll finish up utilities on elm and they'll turn around and they'll repave elm 745 01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:09,600 once both things are done then they will turn both those roads over to the city 746 01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:16,000 and they will become city roads for us to work with long term currently right now where we are is 747 01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:20,640 everything we want to do within that right away whether it's parking whether it's sidewalks it's 748 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:25,440 drainage infrastructure other utilities we have to work with tex dot and get a permit or special 749 01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:31,520 permission to be in that area to do work going forward we'll have much greater control over our 750 01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:38,160 own destiny throughout the core of our town so what are the plans for robertson street robertson 751 01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:44,000 so you can see several areas on robertson where we've already gone through and taken a look at 752 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:49,520 there is a segment that is a full reconstruction what's not on here is because it's a gis map it 753 01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:54,160 likes to draw from this point to this point the reconstruction of robertson actually extends 754 01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:58,560 further both directions because that's where utility lines will get torn up so we'll take 755 01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,720 all those utility lines up and then we'll repay that entire roadway rebuild it from bottom up 756 01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:08,240 and then other parts of robertson where the utilities aren't but the roadway still needs 757 01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:14,000 that kind of attention we'll do either mill and overlay or we'll also or we'll do the other just 758 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:19,680 surface treatment so much of what we're doing throughout the city is also reflected in and 759 01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:25,440 danny knows a lot more than he's engrossed in something but danny has a truck that's 760 01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:29,360 going to come throughout the entire city of denton later this fall and that vehicle 761 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:34,400 assesses the pavement its quality its condition it double checks these ocis that we've presented 762 01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:39,840 earlier what kind of condition are they in and it is across the city what we're actually going 763 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:44,560 to have is more streets than we had from the previous one because there's been so much 764 01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:49,440 development in the interim since 2015 when the last survey was done so we'll get a chance to 765 01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:54,960 double check how right we are on where that oci is and it may change some of this some of that 766 01:23:54,960 --> 01:24:09,200 reconstruction may evolve yes darling would you say that 70 million dollars is this to be david or no 767 01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:18,640 is is it are we at where you wanted me to look yes oh okay because i'm not seeing it add up to 768 01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:29,760 70 million it's only like i did um it's only saying 26.1 million so 70 million it encompasses 769 01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:35,120 the entire city so a few weeks back and i don't know if we still have a map up here okay i don't 770 01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:44,960 see it uh we showed a map of the entire city and their ocis so that 70 million addresses three 771 01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,960 neighborhoods or four neighborhoods three neighborhoods including southeast denton 772 01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:55,760 where it's ocis that are greater than 20 because we want to address the entire neighborhood at one 773 01:24:55,760 --> 01:25:00,400 time instead of what we've done in the past whereas you know we we worked here we worked there we went 774 01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,840 over here and we went down here and we didn't connect the dots in between so now you got 775 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:07,920 neighbors who are extremely frustrated that well you were here then you went over here then you 776 01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:11,120 disappeared for two or three years and now you came back and you're in my front yard again 777 01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:16,000 what's going on so we're trying to put together a much better program to say if i'm going to be in 778 01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,160 the neighborhood i'm going to do the whole neighborhood at one time all utilities all 779 01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:25,520 infrastructure done not have to come back but for minor maintenance over the next 30 to 40 years 780 01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:29,920 so that's the goal that's across the city regardless of where you are 781 01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:36,800 now the problem we have is is if i just isolate those three neighborhoods that's about 35 million 782 01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:42,160 dollars worth of roadway work between those three neighborhoods when you expand that to the water 783 01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:48,960 wastewater infrastructure that almost doubles the cost the entire 70 million is citywide so we've 784 01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:54,320 isolated three neighborhoods and said okay we're going to do those regardless of what the oci is 785 01:25:54,320 --> 01:26:01,920 if it tells us if anything from a 45 oci and below tells us that needs to be totally reconstructed 786 01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:09,040 foundation up so those three neighborhoods would get that and then we would be looking at the 787 01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:14,160 remainder of the city's roadways that are under a 20 oci which means they're degrading rapidly 788 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:20,880 so those roadways across the city would also get that pick and choose kind of methodology that was 789 01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:25,200 involved in the previous bond programs where we'd go hit this one and go hit that one and do this one 790 01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:31,120 and just all over the city that's where the other 35 million comes from so across the board we're 791 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:37,440 taking care of all of the streets in the city of denton that have an oci of 20 or less and then 792 01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:41,920 we're targeting these neighborhoods because overall these three neighborhoods are in the worst overall 793 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,840 condition and doing those three neighbors so we don't have to come back other than maintenance 794 01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:53,600 we don't have to come back and redo that sooner did you find it you knew the date and everything 795 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,800 of course you did 796 01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:12,560 yes okay perfect 797 01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:21,040 so you can see these one of the options that we presented on the 20th was multiple options 798 01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:25,440 for how you reconstruct streets throughout the city and how much do you want to go i mean that's 799 01:27:25,440 --> 01:27:29,760 that's another option that you all have is how much do you want to recommend to council 800 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:36,160 that we incorporate into just this segment of the of the roadway pond so one of the options was in 801 01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:42,160 the past we had done that kind of shotgun approach right we just wherever it was the lowest oci we 802 01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:45,680 went and did that and cut it off at a dollar amount and that's as far as we're going to go 803 01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:51,360 and that presented the problems that we're still working through today so staff's recommendation 804 01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:57,440 was that we go with a more of a hybrid approach between the two whereas that is we took the the 805 01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:03,680 seven different neighborhoods throughout the city that had the lowest overall oci and then we were 806 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:08,960 looking at those to how far could those dollars go so if you did just those seven neighborhoods 807 01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:14,000 and didn't focus on any other street in the city you're at about 70 million dollars in roadway 808 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:20,240 costs for all seven neighborhoods now the problem with that is that neglects a lot of roadways 809 01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:26,160 throughout the rest of the city that are at a 20 oci and lower some of those are in those more 810 01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:30,000 rural neighborhoods just on the border of the town some of them are in the older parts of the 811 01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:35,840 of the city where this roads have just been there for a long time without enough attention so those 812 01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:41,600 roadways would get neglected and they would just continue to degrade to the point where it would be 813 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:47,120 just that much more expensive to redo those roads five or six years from now when another bond 814 01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:54,720 program might become the next option where we went with this as a staff was to come back and say 815 01:28:55,280 --> 01:29:01,040 let's propose a hybrid scenario where we take three neighborhoods or four whatever we could 816 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:08,240 really work into a 70 million dollar focus on local streets work those three neighborhoods 817 01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:15,680 and again we chose those these right these over here these numbers were not by priority of worst 818 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,080 while they were was just when we drew the map somebody said that's one two three and that's 819 01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:25,600 where it came from so if you actually looked at the overall ocis these three were the lowest ocis 820 01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:34,160 in it as far as a neighborhood overall oci then when you combine that with the 20 and under oci 821 01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:39,840 street so those roads that have a health score of 20 or less that would round out to another 822 01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:47,520 30 million dollars so between these three we got to 70 million dollars in total expenses to read 823 01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:54,000 to read reconstruct those roadways so the 70 million for just southeast end you're right it 824 01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:59,680 doesn't equate because it is one component of the entire city that extends all the way out to its 825 01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:06,240 city limits thanks you know probably need that slide later on 826 01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:14,240 all right any other comments questions on southeast end 827 01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,240 okay do we all move on to mckinney 828 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:23,680 thanks i appreciate that 829 01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:32,800 so last meeting we had some questions about mckinney and what it would cost to extend mckinney even 830 01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:40,400 further into the downtown area which we had also addressed we're working everything east of loop 288 831 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:46,400 because that's where the dollars we have currently funded we can reconstruct that piece of mckinney 832 01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:52,480 with the dollars available the problem that we have is when you bring loop 280 in 288 or go from 833 01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:59,200 loop 288 all the way over to woodrow the cost to rebuild that roadway today if we had dollars today 834 01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:06,720 would be roughly 22 million just in construction for that roadway now when i show this 53 million 835 01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:11,680 dollar number down here that's a lot of other things thrown into it that's an assumption that 836 01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:16,320 we wouldn't get to the constraint the actual construction of that for another 42 months if you 837 01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:22,560 gave me the dollars today so we've inflated that one percent per month over 42 months if you roll 838 01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:28,000 that back let's say i got construction i got construction dollars or approval to go to 839 01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:32,480 construction next year because it would take me at least a year to acquire all the rightaways at a 840 01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:36,720 minimum all the properties that we would need to get the right away full width all the way to woodrow 841 01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:42,720 it would take me a year at a minimum i'm going to add roughly three million dollars to that overall 842 01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:50,320 construction cost is that if you look at an annual rate one percent per month localized in the economy 843 01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:55,600 again we kind of talked about that before the inflational rate locally is roughly one percent 844 01:31:55,600 --> 01:32:02,000 per month that equates out to 12 and a half to 12.7 percent annually in total growth of the 845 01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:08,000 construction cost on just a one-year basis so one year out i'd be looking at adding roughly three 846 01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:14,240 million dollars to that construction cost then you add in the right away acquisition cost of about 847 01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:18,720 six million dollars that's an estimated cost there's nothing more than us having taken a good 848 01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:25,680 estimated you know a pretty good educated guess at it that's where we see that right away expense 849 01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:31,920 going once you start rolling in design costs as well as other factors that go into it staff time 850 01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:39,120 the variety of other expenses that go into just delivering a project qaqc survey geotech all the 851 01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:45,120 other items that's where you come up with roughly a 53 million dollar price tag to get this particular 852 01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:55,520 roadway in from loop 288 over to woodrow lane now there are some options yes ma'am so 853 01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:06,240 sorry i didn't realize i sounded so bad so in general what you're seeing here is 854 01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:11,120 what we'll still work to try to get additional funding from cog or some other players to make 855 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:16,640 this work part of what we're also up against is when we go to the regional transportation council 856 01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:22,720 which is a council a subcommittee basically the national of the north central texas council of 857 01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:27,920 governments our metropolitan planning organization they they govern a lot of funding sources and 858 01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:33,120 avenues to funding that's where we're getting money for hickory creek for bonnie bray several 859 01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:38,080 other projects that we currently have like mayhill uh the southern end of bonnie bray mckinney right 860 01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:44,000 now they all funded those projects part of where their concern is is until you come up with a plan 861 01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:48,400 and you give me a timeline to actually require the right away because that's not going to be 862 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:51,120 something they're going to throw money in for there'd be something we would have to find 863 01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:56,640 when you have all those items lined up and i can see your path to completion 864 01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:01,520 then i might consider it but they're also waiting to see if we actually do what we say we're going 865 01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:08,880 to do on mckinney east of loop 288 because east of loop 288 they were they were we were getting 866 01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:13,200 close to the point where they were going to pull that funding back and they had the authority to 867 01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:19,680 do that there was a 10-year window for those dollars to be spent on construction and we were 868 01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:24,800 right up against that window all the way up to was it september of this year so september of this 869 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:32,080 year so we we beat that and started construction earlier this year but right now what there's what 870 01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:37,120 we're hearing just the rumblings in the background is i want to see you get this done before you start 871 01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:40,880 coming and asking me for more money out here they're not saying they won't but before they 872 01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:45,360 commit to that because this is all the other cities in the north central texas area that are 873 01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:51,120 a member of cog those groups are the same groups we got to go to bat with other folks to get the 874 01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:56,000 this kind of funding so we're competing with them they also have to be able to say because each city 875 01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:02,240 or large area because some areas compromise comprise multiple cities just because their 876 01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:08,080 communities are smaller they have a vote at the table on this council and they get to steer where 877 01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:14,080 that money goes so we definitely want to have projects that are valid ready to go so that we 878 01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:19,760 stand up against everybody else so that's where we are with mckinney as we look for where we go in 879 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:24,400 the future it's absolutely on the radar we don't know that right now is where we can actually 880 01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,200 capitalize on getting those dollars to go as far as we can 881 01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:39,360 any questions i think my only question i guess would be um i did believe that state had most of 882 01:35:39,360 --> 01:35:50,000 right away for a lot of that in their acquisition you say this is the ls e are worse so it's as far 883 01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:54,000 as all the streets you brought to our attention is this the worst one because it seems like you've 884 01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:00,480 been talking these a lot this is me these are what our current estimates are at the intersections 885 01:36:00,480 --> 01:36:06,480 yeah so at the ends of the roadway where i basically have to construct my staff hates me 886 01:36:06,480 --> 01:36:09,760 hearing me say this especially the traffic engineers we're constructing parking lots to 887 01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:16,320 handle the traffic signal so i put it on red you got a parking somewhere but when you get to that 888 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:21,520 point i'm at a level of service e throughout this quarter but especially at the two signals on both 889 01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:27,440 ends so a lot of that is the functionality of what the actual intersection is doing so part of these 890 01:36:27,440 --> 01:36:31,520 projects would be upgrading the intersection significantly to the point where we don't have 891 01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:39,680 that control problem okay but it is the worst street you presented to us as far as the intersections 892 01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:44,720 involves operationally yes i wanted to clarify that because that's what i've been saying this 893 01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:49,120 whole time and that's why i was really concerned that you didn't want to bring that to the committee 894 01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:55,920 no it was no it wasn't that i mean the the reality of that roadway is the funding constraints 895 01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:00,160 are a little tighter on that roadway than what we could get for other places because the other 896 01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:06,080 places they have a regional connection that really speaks to the regional transportation council 897 01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:11,200 where they're very interested in putting that that same amount of dollars they'll go a lot 898 01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:16,480 further with it because there is that impact and when you're having to work with multiple other 899 01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:21,360 cities and communities and agencies that are tied into that same council and they have a vote 900 01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:27,120 it's where is that council really going to let us go one of the issues that we have here with this 901 01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:35,280 roadway is you have constraints at the intersections today the limit for future capacity i have to get 902 01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:39,360 into it with pre-tem i'm not going to make a presumption but its growth is is not the same 903 01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:43,840 as what you're going to see down south so just because we see a level of service d today does 904 01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:48,560 not mean that's what we're going to see 20 years from now 10 years from now i mean you have a lot 905 01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:54,400 of development coming so we can choose to do one of two things we can react to the realities of today 906 01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,560 and then we hear a lot of what we're hearing today in the public which is there's a lot of 907 01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:03,760 construction going on and you're tearing up my roadway i'm having to fight around that construction 908 01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:10,720 or we can elect to look forward as strategically as possible and get ahead of it when now i don't have 909 01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:17,200 the same constraint but i can see what's coming and that's what we see in these areas hickory creek 910 01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:22,400 one of the biggest issues you have with hickory creek is when that road is widened then concerns 911 01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:27,200 we heard some concerns tonight about ryan and hobson some other roadways it allows those people 912 01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:32,560 who are absolutely using those roadways to go north to make a connection to come back south 913 01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:37,760 they they go straight south to hickory creek and they go to the sides and do where they need to go 914 01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:43,360 that's where we see the long-term benefit of that roadway versus a mckinney that's fairly landlocked 915 01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:46,400 a lot of the development already is what it is 916 01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:54,960 i mean and i agree and disagree but there's there's a lot of land south of mckinney that's 917 01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:58,640 going to be developed and there's a huge apartment complex going on probably i have to have an 918 01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:06,800 intersection it's kind of signal light there but it's there's just state actually has it designed 919 01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:11,680 to be six lanes so that was why i'm surprised the city is backing it down a lot of the reasons why 920 01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:15,840 the state had that designed at six lanes is there were some other things that were also considering 921 01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:20,240 your long-term planning they didn't have a expanded mayhill when they were looking at 922 01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:25,920 it as a six lane facility they had a lot of other things plugged in that were just hey this is what 923 01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:30,800 it is and it's not going to get any bigger there's no other connections coming that was what their 924 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:36,400 plan was at the time now even they look at go back and relook at this thing periodically to make sure 925 01:39:36,400 --> 01:39:40,960 that hey long-term projections change i mean roadways that we thought years ago would have needed 926 01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:45,680 to be six lanes you look at it now and it really needs to be two to three lanes other roadways 927 01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:52,160 that we thought long term would be two lanes they're now needing to be today six lanes so is 928 01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:58,000 this a project that you are recommending beyond a bond five years from now is that what you're 929 01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:05,120 where we are right now yes and you're hoping by then you'll have but i i will tell you this that 930 01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:13,440 is also the that is what this body is for if if you guys want to push that into this mix then 931 01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:18,400 absolutely that's a recommendation you can make i agree it's a roadway that at some point 932 01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:24,080 absolutely needs to be done and that's something that you can recommend as a body to change into 933 01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:32,480 this mix of priorities i don't think i have any questions thank you yeah i have a question so how 934 01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:37,280 long is the construction of the east side of the thing going to take and is there anything we could 935 01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:43,680 do in this bond package that doesn't fully fund it but maybe get it ready for you know however 936 01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:50,960 long it takes to finish the east side or we can make a serious push to or can you pull the 937 01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:58,320 microphones here say it again so your question my question was twofold how long is the construction 938 01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:05,760 green light there it is how long is the construction on the east side of mckinney going to take 939 01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:12,800 and is there anything that we can do that would make us in a better position to petition the cog 940 01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:18,640 whenever that is complete in this bond without fully funding it so that that's an ongoing concern 941 01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:25,360 that we have you know some of the concerns i've heard about how would you fund growth to the south 942 01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:31,360 of mckinney well some of that would come back through other avenues whether it's sir uh roadway 943 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:36,800 impact fees that would be required by the development to pay that as well as a perimeter 944 01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:41,440 street requirement the city currently has that they provide the perimeter streets or at least 945 01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:45,920 half of the perimeter streets when they put in their development along with other things we are 946 01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:51,200 currently designing 30 up to 30 percent designed that mckinney street all the way at the carol 947 01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:56,320 boulevard well beyond woodrow just for exactly what you're talking about when those opportunities 948 01:41:56,320 --> 01:42:00,880 present to be able to capitalize on those as quickly as possible there are some other avenues 949 01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:05,360 that we're we're looking at as well which would be federal funding some other projects that would 950 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:11,200 help to push this along even further so we're looking at all of our options i don't want to 951 01:42:11,200 --> 01:42:17,840 sit on this project for five years absolutely not but the reality is we've got to explore all of our 952 01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:23,520 options and right now the outlook is we could get more funding quicker by not going the route 953 01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:29,440 of rtr funds or some of the other funds that would commit itself we'd be looking at some federal 954 01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:34,400 dollars and some other avenues plus allowing the development community to pay their way into this 955 01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:39,600 so we are doing the design work now and i answer your first question about the length of time that 956 01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:44,720 east the east half or the east side of mckinney is going to be under construction or under 957 01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:50,160 construction now you're looking at roughly two years of construction until it's complete thank you 958 01:42:52,720 --> 01:43:03,200 diane when we had a chat at paul's town hall i asked what it would take 959 01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:11,280 for five years and you said 300 million so going forward to the next five years if we if we fund 960 01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:16,960 this very worthy project in with our bond how many more bonds is the city going to have to present 961 01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:21,680 uh going forward five years are we going to have to do one every year do you think 962 01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:27,920 we can't i mean just talk to david about that one he's he's the finance guy i just know how 963 01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:36,320 to spend it he's the one who finds the money i just spend it so no i'm saying that facetiously 964 01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:40,720 you know i'm very cognizant i live here and i pay taxes here as well so i'm very cognizant about 965 01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:47,040 where those dollars go one of the concerns that we have going forward is is it's really up to 966 01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:53,280 the citizens of dentin how far do you want to go which is why i'm asking so so if we if we could 967 01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:59,520 put it into a pretty package with a bow because so far i have not heard how much our taxes would go 968 01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:07,680 up a year my my my weird little attorney friend who loves numbers said oh let me crunch it and 969 01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:17,680 so we're looking at maybe 60 to 80 right so um i think this might be the easiest way to show it 970 01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:25,360 so right now we're looking at a four cent uh four cents max debt rate that service tax rate 971 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:30,160 increase on a hundred thousand dollar home that's forty dollars a year so a two hundred thousand 972 01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:34,960 dollar home is eighty dollars a year our average home close to two hundred fifty thousand dollars 973 01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:40,320 would be you know a hundred dollars a year yeah which which is almost nothing you know in the 974 01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:46,560 grand scheme oh nobody nobody be annoyed that i just said that by the way because where i'm going 975 01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:53,600 is i've been here 10 years i've been in denton county 30 years and i know the numbers for the 976 01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:59,520 county because of certain experiences i had last year so i know what the projected growth is here 977 01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:06,960 and and it's it's going to come whether whether we like it or not so this isn't the only 978 01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:11,840 other project you have that you'd like to have rolled in to this bond correct 979 01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:21,040 it's okay time from an engineer's perspective i would love to go build all of it there you go 980 01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:27,280 that's what i want 100 i would love to go do it tomorrow the realities of both the marketplace 981 01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:32,720 the availability of contractors do limit us i know but if you're asking what i would just love to do 982 01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:38,400 and i had my wish yes i'd love to go build it all today okay so i'm i'm going to take it from a to 983 01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:44,720 z then okay so what would it what would it take to present a bond package to the citizens of denton 984 01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:53,200 that would fix our roads bring in lighting i know the crime stats for mayhill now right to protect 985 01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:59,360 the citizens of denton ensure their quality of life we're the ones paying the taxes for now 986 01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:05,840 and the future tell me how to do it that's your job well that's david's job 987 01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:17,520 you know i mean i ultimately that's gonna the conversation on what the total amount of debt 988 01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:21,200 that the committee is comfortable with is going to be a conversation for the committee to have 989 01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:25,840 obviously the charge from the city council was to come forward with a 210 million dollar 990 01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:32,800 program they the the starting point for that was to say what what number can we have to stay under 991 01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:38,960 our total tax rate so you know if the desire from the committee was to go over up to whatever number 992 01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:44,800 ultimately you want to go up to there would just be the increase over our total tax rate and then 993 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:49,760 the increase over the debt service tax rate but i will point out you know as even when we talk 994 01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:54,240 about a four percent tax rate increase as i mentioned earlier that doesn't mean every 995 01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:58,400 single year of the program it's going to be a four percent four cent tax rate increase that's just 996 01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:03,520 at some at one point during one year based on our current assumptions we may get up to that point 997 01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:08,960 so just as a caveat to say it's not like you're going to have the hundred dollars every single 998 01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:14,080 year of the program but as far as the total high that we're looking at the total bucket of dollars 999 01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:18,880 that's ultimately just a level of of first with the committee for your recommendation to council 1000 01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:24,480 of what how how large you want to go and council's ultimate decision on what is on the election and 1001 01:47:24,480 --> 01:47:29,280 then up to the voters on if they're comfortable with going up to that amount in the ensuing tax 1002 01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:35,040 rate that would be required i've also um i'll get with you todd i've also found some grants 1003 01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:40,560 that i'll bet you haven't looked at yet okay thank you so much 1004 01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:52,320 okay any more discussion on uh mckinney or southeast denton i just have one question for 1005 01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:58,240 todd on mckinney what is it about that section of and this is maybe just a stupid question but 1006 01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:05,040 that section of mckinney between the loop and woodrow that makes it potentially eligible for 1007 01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:12,400 cog money how does it meet parameters that well and that's you've hit on a challenge there for us 1008 01:48:12,400 --> 01:48:18,800 to get to woodrow it has to fall into certain specific categories because it's not tying into 1009 01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:23,040 a state road from a state road so that's where we've been pushing it all the way over to element 1010 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:28,240 locus because right now there's still state roads which would be an even bigger number than what 1011 01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:34,080 you're seeing here so that's the other challenge is those avenues that we'd be looking at funding 1012 01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:39,840 from the cog would be more in the way of active transportation some of the sidewalk more sidewalk 1013 01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:44,080 context-sensitive grants that are out there and it would be cobbling a lot of things together to 1014 01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:49,920 make it work does that answer your question i was wondering is if i mean if it went on over 1015 01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:56,960 to element locus you could right see it and that's why we're designing it what's the timeline there 1016 01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:04,640 would we have taken possession of those two roads before that's the challenge this cog 1017 01:49:04,640 --> 01:49:10,080 yes most likely yes because at the pace we're going with them and locust we should have those 1018 01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:14,720 reconstructed in the next two two and a half years about the same time we'd be ready to go to construction 1019 01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:23,200 i'll render grants on that refund right 1020 01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:40,480 free you just brought up a point about five years three years whatever it's going to be 1021 01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:46,800 the whole push to get cogs may be you know a lost cause at that point so we've 1022 01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:52,400 waited for nothing it costs an increase but when you drive down that road i all the time 1023 01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:58,720 i always see bicyclists uh people walking and they don't have sidewalks on most of that street 1024 01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:02,800 true they're on the shoulders and that's that's the challenge for a cog when you're trying to get 1025 01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:09,280 that kind of money it needs to be connected and it's that whole area has for the cog to really 1026 01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:15,520 buy into putting that kind of money on it onto a project it has to have been designed which is 1027 01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:21,920 really my reasoning for saying we shouldn't wait for cogs because by the time you do that we will 1028 01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:26,560 no longer have 77 so there won't be a connection and cogs probably won't do it so i mean it's 1029 01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:31,440 for me this section between woodrow and luke 28 is really the important section 1030 01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:36,560 the other section the city's been putting in sidewalks upgrading the sides i mean i remember 1031 01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:41,280 we did that four or five years ago so now there's some nice sidewalks over there so i mean it's it's 1032 01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:47,360 you know could still be improved of course like everything but the really major sections between 1033 01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:55,200 woodrow and 288 that's the dangerous part um and i would really suggest beyond this one well 1034 01:50:55,200 --> 01:51:05,520 that's a topic for the next item on the agenda so david and it will move on to item 2c which is 1035 01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:13,360 report receive report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding um 2019 bond program 1036 01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:24,640 prioritization so this agenda item is is really an offshoot of the conversation that you just had 1037 01:51:24,640 --> 01:51:30,400 uh just to give give the committee the first your first opportunity to discuss amongst yourself 1038 01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:37,120 where you how you prioritize the project um you know in advance of us of the discussion of what 1039 01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:42,400 is where's the line of what's above the line of a little line uh for whatever the total funding 1040 01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:49,680 amount is so that's the intent of this of this item prior obviously prior to the meeting today 1041 01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:56,160 i sent out a um a survey an online survey to everyone to complete um the the intent of that 1042 01:51:56,160 --> 01:52:03,600 survey was was nothing more than to have to have the following slide that gives everyone a baseline 1043 01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:09,680 for your discussion it was only meant to enhance your discussion nothing final about the online 1044 01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:16,240 survey um so we have the results of the survey on the next slide 15 of the 19 members completed 1045 01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:23,200 the survey as of uh just before the meeting today and obviously the aggregate results of the survey 1046 01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:28,480 are next we'll make one note uh the only of dollar amount essentially that's not included on the 1047 01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:34,080 survey was public art uh you know ultimately for the recommendation to council you discussed public 1048 01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:39,440 art last time that will be a factor in the total amount dollar amount that we look toward so public 1049 01:52:39,440 --> 01:52:43,600 art is a consideration to take into account as you're considering all the other projects 1050 01:52:43,600 --> 01:52:49,200 but that wasn't on the survey that was sent out can i ask on the public art 1051 01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:57,280 we said to stay at two percent and our other alternative is no public art or four percent right 1052 01:52:57,280 --> 01:53:03,280 those are or or we or four percent we also said you can change the um we could recommend changes 1053 01:53:03,280 --> 01:53:13,280 to the policy so that really opens up some other options so here are the results of the survey i 1054 01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:18,160 just want to emphasize the 15 of the 19 this is not the entire committee that that took the survey 1055 01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:25,280 but um and again just intended to to to enhance your conversation today but you can see the top 1056 01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:29,360 you know five or six items are the ones that we've been discussing quite a bit uh police station 1057 01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:34,240 renovation number one fire station eight number two uh then the substation and then you can see 1058 01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:40,240 the street rehab program uh was the fourth uh highest ranked amongst the committee um and i 1059 01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:44,880 think as we've had the discussions we've seen the importance importance of that and bonny bray and 1060 01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:51,040 hickory creek following um and you can see the rest of the items there so again this was um just 1061 01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:56,960 just an aggregate of the of those who took the survey and um hopefully will help your your 1062 01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:01,840 prioritization conversation uh i'll kind of open it up to the committee amongst yourself have the 1063 01:54:01,840 --> 01:54:06,320 discussion obviously we're available for any questions i was just wondering how you got you 1064 01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:12,800 know the numbers are like everybody's number one got a certain number of yeah yeah it was essentially 1065 01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:17,840 the the basic survey monkey kind of algorithm and number one got a certain number of points number 1066 01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:21,440 two got a certain number of points and then there were aggregate points and then it was ranked on 1067 01:54:21,440 --> 01:54:29,760 this point doesn't add up to 15 in any way right yeah yeah so one question i have for the committee 1068 01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:38,640 is this these survey results are based on the previous known estimates for the police station 1069 01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:45,840 renovation and police substation so i think one of the questions we have to ask ourselves knowing 1070 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:53,680 what we know today that's new information what are your thoughts on how does that impact the 1071 01:54:53,680 --> 01:55:04,240 this uh prioritization with these results not not for me that's it you just i agree with you 1072 01:55:04,240 --> 01:55:12,960 i do i i'm in favor of the police station and the fire department only though i don't know 1073 01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:18,880 i don't know i just can't do it because i can't see a breakdown for the street rehab program to 1074 01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:26,800 justify body ray gray and history hickory creek again they're getting more money poured into those 1075 01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:34,480 streets than everybody else i just i'm not in favor or ryan i don't get it okay um i have a question 1076 01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:46,800 hickory creek is receiving city funds county funds state funds so if the city does not fund 1077 01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:54,480 hickory creek creek they've lost everything else right so and is it true for bonnie bray as well 1078 01:55:54,480 --> 01:56:02,720 yes correct so those two and queen i understand where you're coming from with that but if not 1079 01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:13,280 funding means that we're losing other funding then that's not good for our city but it shouldn't have 1080 01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:18,400 been in the first place i don't know what you mean but it shouldn't be in the first place this is 1081 01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:25,280 three different governmental bodies are deciding local governments municipality local government 1082 01:56:25,280 --> 01:56:31,280 county and state government but they're the city's requesting help from these different governments 1083 01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:38,080 to get money and what they should have been trying to do is give money for the underserved 1084 01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:44,720 they would have definitely poured out more money no the county would not have poured out money for 1085 01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:51,040 a city in no for a city straight there are 44 cities in denton county and every single one of 1086 01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:58,400 them would have been asking for it hickory creek road was given out for a particular need that was 1087 01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:04,400 seen as both municipal and county and that was due to county commissioner hugh colman 1088 01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:11,920 that was his road money that he put in because of the deaths that occurred on hickory creek 1089 01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:18,400 and you can go back and look at the discussions on commissioner's court in order to understand 1090 01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:24,560 why that one in particular now bonnie bray that's a whole other there's a whole lot of other reasons 1091 01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:31,680 by the way that road construction is interrupting my life right now as i'm trying to get from my 1092 01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:38,560 house to presbyterian but i'm doing it but it works it's that circle that they're putting in 1093 01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:46,960 it's a whole lot more that's going on there but one of the things that i think we need to keep in 1094 01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:56,960 mind is all the other monies that are brought in because the city is considering or is in the 1095 01:57:56,960 --> 01:58:04,720 process of with these roads and as a committee we need to remember that well it's it's letting you 1096 01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:13,040 leverage the dollars so you if you can spend 27 million and get 111 million dollars in roads 1097 01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:19,920 that's pretty good leverage of your money and then that's kind of what pushes those up 1098 01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:29,680 right absolutely so i i think this is really very helpful to our work um and uh what i would love to 1099 01:58:29,680 --> 01:58:37,600 see uh perhaps for our next meeting is taking this chart assigning the dollar figure for each piece 1100 01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:43,680 with a running total in the next column so that we begin to see where those lines might fall 1101 01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:49,440 i think that will help us get to the decisions that need to be made 1102 01:58:49,440 --> 01:58:58,880 i i do think that in light of the conversation that it is uh earlier that it is appropriate to 1103 01:58:58,880 --> 01:59:06,160 put a below the line uh series of things into this that if we want to put below the line mckinney 1104 01:59:06,160 --> 01:59:12,800 and say okay here's here's 50 million dollars for mckinney that if you want to factor it in this is 1105 01:59:12,800 --> 01:59:18,560 what it's going to take that number to but but we've got we've got a line here that i think we 1106 01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:24,720 want to be looking at and then we ask if there's anything that that we want to to move above the 1107 01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:32,240 line or move below the line we can we can definitely do definitely do that um we need to do it based on 1108 01:59:32,240 --> 01:59:36,480 this on the rankings that we have here or if there's as a result of this good discussion 1109 01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:39,920 anything moves around we can we can do that 1110 01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:46,000 i have a question i wound up going back to the net 2030 plan recently and i was reading through that 1111 01:59:46,000 --> 01:59:52,880 and uh guys it was i have the page written down at page 173 they were suggesting to include the 1112 01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:57,520 cost of regular road maintenance and rehabilitation and estimating the cost of building and widening 1113 01:59:57,520 --> 02:00:02,640 roads can you susan can you move closer to the bike please yes for sure try to say it again 1114 02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:09,680 so what it said on page 173 of the dent 2030 plan it was you know a suggestion 1115 02:00:09,680 --> 02:00:13,840 was to include the cost of regular road maintenance and rehabilitation 1116 02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:18,880 and estimating the cost of building and widening roads is that something that we've been doing 1117 02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:24,640 i didn't miss that did i uh quite uh some conversations of that offline 1118 02:00:28,080 --> 02:00:34,880 so let me make sure i just understand where you're going so if you're asking are we factoring in to 1119 02:00:34,880 --> 02:00:39,680 account that there's an ongoing maintenance piece to every single road that goes into the ground 1120 02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:45,680 yes that there are growth predictions that's a council work session item that we actually had 1121 02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:51,680 last year uh some of what diane was talking about earlier the 300 million dollars we had 1122 02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:57,680 talked to council about was also tied to that as you improve those roadways you would also need to 1123 02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:02,800 increase the roadway maintenance budget on an annual basis from 15 million to 20 to 25 1124 02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:08,400 over time as those roadways were rebuilt and we got to the point where we were only ever dealing 1125 02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:14,720 with 10 of our roads in a reconstructed state instead of 20 to 25 like we are today so that 1126 02:01:14,720 --> 02:01:20,480 300 million would shoot all those roadways to the point where we only have about 20 to 25 percent 1127 02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:24,160 roadways to the point where we only have about 10 percent of our roads that are ever in need of 1128 02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:31,680 reconstruction but it has that associated long-term cost of the overall budget for the street maintenance 1129 02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:36,400 would continue to go up as those roadways come in and then of course as continued development comes 1130 02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:44,480 into place those things have to factor into that equation as well but but maintenance is not part 1131 02:01:44,480 --> 02:01:50,400 of the bond the bond is one time yes it's kind of a separate issue yeah maintenance is really where 1132 02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:55,040 you see the vast majority of those tax dollars go is into the maintenance it's that recurring cost 1133 02:01:55,040 --> 02:02:01,520 year over year whereas the bond dollars are that one time completely overhaul it or fix it that we 1134 02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:07,120 have a a much more robust streets maintenance program like we do currently but we didn't for 1135 02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:16,720 years then your actual expense over time for reconstructing roadways will go down now inflation 1136 02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:21,360 and other things will offset some of that but your overall total reconstruction and a bond package 1137 02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:26,000 would go down if you could hold it in today's dollars at some point you would see more of a 1138 02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:31,840 steady state provided you didn't have continued growth i guess i guess kind of where my concern 1139 02:02:31,840 --> 02:02:37,200 has been is kind of and i know we're behind on fixing up our streets it just almost feels like 1140 02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:43,200 maybe we don't have the money to keep up with what we have so i'm just not sure if we're bringing in 1141 02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:48,400 enough new revenue to pay for you know future maintenance costs so you know yeah we can build 1142 02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:52,560 them but will we be able to maintain them further down the line adding more streets to what already 1143 02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:57,920 looks like a pretty heavy load so the vast majority of our just one thing to consider the vast majority 1144 02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:02,720 of the lane miles that get added are when these residential neighborhoods come into the city so 1145 02:03:02,720 --> 02:03:07,760 brand new neighborhoods build more roadway than we build to connect them and really what we're 1146 02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:12,560 building in these bond packages are those connectors because if we don't then what ends up happening is 1147 02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:16,720 people go through the neighborhoods and they over utilize that pavement for the same volume of 1148 02:03:16,720 --> 02:03:22,400 traffic that's trying to get through these level of service e intersections d's and f's we do have 1149 02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:28,960 some throughout town as well so that traffic just tries to find a different pathway now and you see 1150 02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:33,760 that especially in in south denton where neighborhoods were utilized as a way of 1151 02:03:33,760 --> 02:03:41,440 maybe i'll put in a lot of cut through traffic and make it very hard to wind through so that i can 1152 02:03:41,440 --> 02:03:45,920 keep people from cutting through it's had the reverse effect especially with gps and ways and 1153 02:03:45,920 --> 02:03:49,360 all these other things that now people use on their phone to say well i don't want to sit at 1154 02:03:49,360 --> 02:03:53,920 this traffic light because there's a lot of stopping but my gps tells me now i can go through 1155 02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:59,360 this neighborhood and wind my way all the way over to here i don't live here i just want to get over 1156 02:03:59,360 --> 02:04:05,280 to here and we see that a lot so what we don't have especially on the south side of town but 1157 02:04:05,280 --> 02:04:09,600 throughout denton there's a good network of arterials and collector roadways which is what 1158 02:04:09,600 --> 02:04:15,440 we're talking about with hickory creek and bonnie bray mckinney i mean there's a whole host of 1159 02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:21,840 roadways beyond just that that tie those together and relieve the parking lot scenario at a red 1160 02:04:21,840 --> 02:04:27,760 light so that people do stay on those roadways that are built for that traffic and keep them out of 1161 02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:33,440 our subdivisions so it's as much a safety concern it helps to minimize the total maintenance dollars 1162 02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:38,800 that goes on the larger portion of our roadways which is in those neighborhoods from just a pure 1163 02:04:38,800 --> 02:04:45,040 amount of them and localize them onto a select few that collect the vast majority of traffic and 1164 02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:54,080 put the dollars there does that help yes it does okay okay so one question that came up earlier 1165 02:04:54,080 --> 02:05:00,320 today is knowing we know now about the police station renovation and the police substation 1166 02:05:00,320 --> 02:05:08,480 we were given direction of looking at a couple different options 100 million to 210 million 1167 02:05:08,480 --> 02:05:18,400 dollars so i know we know today about those costs going up i think the question is do we have to look 1168 02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:27,040 at going to a higher number as an option a 230-ish number and likewise should we look at 1169 02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:35,920 do we look at something lower in the 180s or 190s realizing you know whatever we just recommend to 1170 02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:42,160 city council is going to you know if we add 20 million dollars to the package that's about a 1171 02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:52,080 one and a half cent increase to the overall tax rate for debt service or do we go lower 1172 02:05:52,080 --> 02:06:00,960 and stay well below that effective tax rate and keep it in the four to three and a half cent 1173 02:06:00,960 --> 02:06:07,200 you know realize we have to sell this package to the citizens so any discussion on that 1174 02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:16,000 i would like that this is related but as we look at what we're going to spend we also need to look 1175 02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:23,360 at how we're going to pay for it and the legislature took a bite out of ways that we used to be able to 1176 02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:31,120 get creative paying off bonds can you just give us the cliff notes version of that 1177 02:06:31,120 --> 02:06:35,280 you're talking about the three and a half percent rollback or 1178 02:06:35,280 --> 02:06:42,720 well yeah and i'm talking about accelerated stripping us of the opportunity to pay off 1179 02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:49,440 debt early and so refund yeah advanced advanced refundings that is that is just change as we make 1180 02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:56,880 our do our financial planning that was a part of the 2017 tax law nationwide we no longer can do 1181 02:06:56,880 --> 02:07:01,680 advanced refunding so that does limit our capabilities when interest rates get low on 1182 02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:05,760 options we can do to free up some of our debt service so that definitely is something that all 1183 02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:10,000 cities have been dealing with for the past couple years and will continue to be a constraint on our 1184 02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:14,880 flexibility in regards to the i'm just assuming you're talking about the three and a half percent 1185 02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:21,040 rollback that doesn't have a direct impact on the debt service rate because the rollback rate is 1186 02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:27,120 calculated specifically on our m and o rate our maintenance and operations rate so it does have 1187 02:07:27,120 --> 02:07:31,120 some knock-on effects obviously with our debt service tax rate on the maintenance that goes 1188 02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:36,080 along with with some of these projects as we look at a police substation a police station 1189 02:07:36,080 --> 02:07:41,360 we have other other demands that are that are increasing the amount of officers that we need 1190 02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:45,040 so there are plenty of discussions that we're going to be having on our m and o rate over the 1191 02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:48,960 next few years and constraints that the three and a half percent rollback will have on us 1192 02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:52,720 but the debt that we issue does not have that direct impact because the 1193 02:07:52,720 --> 02:08:01,200 rollback rate is is directly related to the m and o rate and we also can't refinance like we used to 1194 02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:13,600 david i think that um it might be good just to mention how much current debt the city has 1195 02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:18,960 and how much of that will be paid off by the end of this particular package 1196 02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:23,840 not not not adding new debt but what we currently carry 1197 02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:27,280 and what the what the payoff will be over the course of the next six years 1198 02:08:36,400 --> 02:08:42,960 so here's an example of some documentation that that we that we can choose to put forward with 1199 02:08:42,960 --> 02:08:48,640 our bond program this year this is information that will be required by the legislature at least 1200 02:08:48,640 --> 02:08:53,200 some version of this this is a draft form that we developed internally in future bond elections 1201 02:08:53,200 --> 02:09:00,240 by the state this is not we are we do not have to abide by the new legislation with this bond 1202 02:09:00,240 --> 02:09:06,000 package because we're calling the election before september 1st but it's an example to hit on the 1203 02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:12,800 question that you asked exactly our total debt service on all of our outstanding debt property 1204 02:09:12,800 --> 02:09:19,280 tax paid debt is 261 million dollars and that means that's the debt service principal and interest 1205 02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:25,120 that will pay over the next 20 years to retire all of our all of our debt and you can see here 1206 02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:31,920 that the amount of debt and interest will will issue with the hundred and 210 million dollar package 1207 02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:41,040 is about 316 million so those are those are just the total numbers the way that that actually 1208 02:09:41,040 --> 02:09:46,480 impacts us is right now our debt service on that total debt that we have outstanding for property 1209 02:09:46,480 --> 02:09:53,200 tax back debt is about 25 million dollars that's what we pay annually in our debt service payments 1210 02:09:53,200 --> 02:09:58,640 for that debt you can see and this is just our outstanding debt that amount continues to fall 1211 02:09:59,360 --> 02:10:05,040 each year until we get to that until we get to 20 years out where we retire all of our outstanding 1212 02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:11,280 debt and ultimately what happens is you know as we get as we start going down and we decrease our 1213 02:10:11,280 --> 02:10:16,400 debt service payments for our outstanding debt we would then make up that difference and stay 1214 02:10:16,400 --> 02:10:20,720 about at that 25 million dollar range with the new debt issuances and obviously go a little go 1215 02:10:20,720 --> 02:10:26,560 above that 25 million dollar range as we talk start talking about the increased debt service tax rate 1216 02:10:27,520 --> 02:10:32,480 but i think one of the things that we heard was that by at that six years from now of the existing 1217 02:10:32,480 --> 02:10:38,080 debt about 98 million would be paid off over the course of the next six years over the course of 1218 02:10:38,080 --> 02:10:42,880 the next year so about 98 million dollars paid off in six years and then the important follow 1219 02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:49,200 on to that is the the entire 210 million dollars obviously is not going to be issued the first year 1220 02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:53,920 it's going to be issued gradually so you're going to have 98 over six years 98 million dollars 1221 02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:59,040 gradually coming off of our debt service payments and then we'll be adding that 210 million dollars 1222 02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:06,320 in total issuance over those six years as well so that's why it's not all just doubling our total 1223 02:11:06,320 --> 02:11:11,600 debt uh debt service is not doubling it's it's a gradual effect that keeps us around our debt 1224 02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:16,640 service tax uh total debt service tax so it's a great point when considering our total bond issuance 1225 02:11:20,240 --> 02:11:31,600 that clear to everyone yeah we we've asked david to come back next time showing maybe a third color 1226 02:11:31,600 --> 02:11:38,800 what that if you phased in the new debt what that would look like absolutely 1227 02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:46,800 yes i'll pick a different one than blue and red green another question 1228 02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:52,880 i'd like to echo mr davis who spoke earlier i've kind of wondered this myself i think i know the 1229 02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:57,040 answer but i'm going to ask it anyway um so considering that we're currently 1230 02:11:57,040 --> 02:12:01,600 updating the mobility plan why are we widening streets prior to updating that 1231 02:12:01,600 --> 02:12:15,040 so there are several things going on all at one time so we did do an area study where we looked 1232 02:12:15,040 --> 02:12:22,640 at the entire quadrant from 2181 all the way back over to 35w we went from vintage and hobson all 1233 02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:30,800 the way south to crofford road yeah so we looked at the entire area inclusively because we we knew 1234 02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:35,520 where that was going and the other thing to consider as well uh i know i heard concerns earlier about 1235 02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:39,520 well why are you widening a brush creek road when you're getting ready to do a mobility plan update 1236 02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:46,160 on the current mobility plan brush creek road is a major arterial it's listed that way today that's 1237 02:12:46,160 --> 02:12:50,320 not going to change the only thing that changes is the connection directly from hickory creek over to 1238 02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:56,240 brush creek and there are vast majority reasons for that one is it is the shortest distance to 1239 02:12:56,240 --> 02:13:01,840 span over the floodplain plus that's where the vast majority of development is coming in today 1240 02:13:01,840 --> 02:13:07,760 i mean we're seeing those act and i think that map is still over here where you can see development 1241 02:13:07,760 --> 02:13:12,720 coming in and it still doesn't reference developments that are coming in that we are having 1242 02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:17,040 ongoing meetings with but they just haven't submitted an application so there's development 1243 02:13:17,040 --> 02:13:21,840 coming into this area that absolutely ties into that and went into that study that projects all 1244 02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:28,720 the way out to 2040 what does traffic look like so the mobility plan in that area is not going to 1245 02:13:28,720 --> 02:13:34,320 change dramatically but it does look at our regional partners as well argyle to the south 1246 02:13:34,320 --> 02:13:41,360 the impacts to crofford road and what they're just able to maintain long term as a city same with the 1247 02:13:41,360 --> 02:13:46,400 county uh text on as well they're all at the table as we're discussing what does this area look like 1248 02:13:46,400 --> 02:13:51,360 so this was definitely not done in a vacuum uh the results that are in this area study would also be 1249 02:13:51,360 --> 02:13:55,360 going into the future mobility study that's currently ongoing it's not like it would be 1250 02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:58,480 thrown away as a separate study it would be conclusively part of it 1251 02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:07,360 on that uh on that traffic study you mentioned yes do you happen to know what the projected 1252 02:14:07,360 --> 02:14:11,680 population is in that south dentin area that the traffic study was based on 1253 02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:18,400 i can get that for you off the top of my head no i don't it also plugs into some 1254 02:14:18,400 --> 02:14:23,440 projected development that would be on the west side of i-35w as well and that would be a prime 1255 02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:28,880 connector in that area too sure we can get that number for you it's in the no that's fine i think 1256 02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:37,360 what i'm wondering is whether the uh the amount of population that the traffic study is assuming 1257 02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:46,080 is aligned with the amount of growth that the uh financial projections are doing and that sort 1258 02:14:46,080 --> 02:14:52,800 of thing or whether those are are disparate so i'd have to get a little bit more finite on your 1259 02:14:52,800 --> 02:14:59,040 question as far as growth goes i know the projected volumes we use are in line with what the council 1260 02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:04,960 of governments uses and that has traditionally been very very conservative we typically see growth 1261 02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:10,240 at a much greater rate than what it actually goes into the study so we're projecting lower 1262 02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:14,880 than what most likely will happen and much like david was talking about in the future expenses 1263 02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:19,760 along with debt service and everything else that gets combined it's the same thing where we're 1264 02:15:19,760 --> 02:15:25,600 trying to project traffic volumes i mean we the studies that we utilize today the growth patterns 1265 02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:29,840 we're using today are based on what's happened over the last five years we typically update 1266 02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:34,640 that every five years it could be a little bit longer depending on where you are we're running 1267 02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:39,920 off of a very conservative estimate but what we have seen over the last 10 to 15 years is that 1268 02:15:39,920 --> 02:15:46,400 growth rate is faster than what we're actually anticipating so instead of doing what you're 1269 02:15:46,400 --> 02:15:51,680 absolutely seeing tex dot do right now so they're they're widening roadways after the fact we're 1270 02:15:51,680 --> 02:15:55,600 trying to be very strategic and that's why we're not saying well let's widen every single road in 1271 02:15:55,600 --> 02:16:00,960 the city of denton to four lanes we're saying where are those prime drivers where are they coming 1272 02:16:00,960 --> 02:16:08,080 we're seeing development coming we have to get ahead of it so if i don't know exactly what you're 1273 02:16:08,080 --> 02:16:13,120 looking for specifically at the moment and i don't know if that's david answering it or me okay 1274 02:16:15,360 --> 02:16:20,160 i think we can definitely i think we to your point we could bring back and just show in that 1275 02:16:20,160 --> 02:16:24,240 area what is the growth assumptions in that document and obviously compare them to the 1276 02:16:24,240 --> 02:16:30,480 growth assumption that we're using for for our total ab and just and see what that is i think 1277 02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:35,520 the difficulty it's not going to be as precise as we know we don't get with our a rss value projections 1278 02:16:35,520 --> 02:16:40,960 down to that quadrant but i think we can definitely at least show what they're projecting in that in 1279 02:16:40,960 --> 02:16:46,480 that area versus our total projections and look at other other factors involved in the plan as well 1280 02:16:46,480 --> 02:16:51,920 as far as growth compared to what we're projecting yeah i think that would do that my my concern is 1281 02:16:51,920 --> 02:16:57,600 that if if you overestimate the growth for the traffic needs then you end up overbuilding sooner 1282 02:16:57,600 --> 02:17:04,640 than you need to to some of the citizen comments earlier and if you uh on the other side if you 1283 02:17:05,280 --> 02:17:12,240 underestimate or rather if you overestimate how much the assessed value is going to grow compared 1284 02:17:12,240 --> 02:17:17,440 to the roads then then you run into funding issues so i just want to understand if those are in line 1285 02:17:17,440 --> 02:17:22,160 with each other we we can definitely do that i would just is not an exact science it won't be 1286 02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:34,320 question david what is what is the uh the interest rate that's paid on the bonds what 1287 02:17:34,320 --> 02:17:39,360 is the benchmark rate for that is it based on treasuries or what what what are we kind of 1288 02:17:39,360 --> 02:17:46,240 looking at for those well it's based so it's right now we have in 2020 a three uh 3.75 interest rate 1289 02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:52,960 and then 4.5 in the out years 2021 on and it's really just based on our bondage which is right 1290 02:17:52,960 --> 02:17:58,720 now we have a bond issuance next week um where we're getting very low rates so that's why we 1291 02:17:58,720 --> 02:18:03,840 kind of we've said okay if we go um just an increase on what we're getting now next year 1292 02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:08,880 and then from two years two years from now it would be we don't want to we don't want to be 1293 02:18:08,880 --> 02:18:13,120 too aggressive and think that we're going to keep these low rates we have now over the life of the 1294 02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:18,160 bonds or the of us selling the bond so that's that's where we are right now but right now 1295 02:18:18,160 --> 02:18:24,400 for what we're selling next week is even is lower than that 3.75 that was one of my my thoughts about 1296 02:18:24,400 --> 02:18:29,600 the question that pat had asked is do we want to raise the amount of the bond or lower it 1297 02:18:29,600 --> 02:18:33,920 my kind of high level thought is you know debt has never been cheaper than it is today 1298 02:18:33,920 --> 02:18:41,600 costs are going up you know exponentially as time goes on the growth is coming uh highways are being 1299 02:18:41,600 --> 02:18:46,800 expanded you know outer loops are being proposed so the growth is going to be here whether you know 1300 02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:52,000 we like it or not and there's no time like the present to fund projects that that you know are 1301 02:18:52,000 --> 02:18:56,800 cheaper now than they ever will be now i'll just use that as an opportunity also to just kind of 1302 02:18:56,800 --> 02:19:00,720 reinforce you know when we say 210 million dollars and we estimate when we're going to sell those 1303 02:19:00,720 --> 02:19:06,160 bonds over six years say our av growth next year is higher than five percent or those interest rates 1304 02:19:06,160 --> 02:19:10,800 are still even lower than we're projecting it gives us some of that balance to issue more 1305 02:19:10,800 --> 02:19:15,680 next year depending on the projects and those discussions are we one ones that we have with 1306 02:19:15,680 --> 02:19:25,200 city council every year as we look to issue debt great point has the city ever considered many bonds 1307 02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:38,560 um like a large number of bonds no it's actually where the citizens contribute 1308 02:19:38,560 --> 02:19:42,240 to the bond so they actually fund their own community just like we did in the war bonds 1309 02:19:42,240 --> 02:19:51,920 i actually did one of those way way back it it's it's kind of fun so that citizens can 1310 02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:58,160 can change it's a nightmare to manage yes just go out and ask because it seems to be a growing 1311 02:19:58,160 --> 02:20:03,520 concept across the country again and like i said it's a great i think it's a great way for the 1312 02:20:03,520 --> 02:20:09,600 citizens to buy in but it's hard to manage i'm i'm not familiar so i can't speak to them right now 1313 02:20:09,600 --> 02:20:20,160 but we can definitely look into sure yeah it's kind of cool okay any other comments or questions 1314 02:20:20,160 --> 02:20:32,080 regarding the 230 option or the 180 option the reason i'm i feel like we need to 1315 02:20:32,080 --> 02:20:40,080 get some you know feedback on that is and thank you nathan is if we're going to give staff 1316 02:20:40,080 --> 02:20:48,080 direction to bring back some variants of options for us to consider um you know using what tim 1317 02:20:48,080 --> 02:20:55,120 laid out which i think is prudent i think would be helpful to get a sense are we willing to go 1318 02:20:55,120 --> 02:21:04,720 above 210 or do we want to stay at 210 can we take a straw bill wait wait wait i'm only kidding 1319 02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:10,000 no you're only kidding i mean we can i mean we can in the committee we can basically do anything 1320 02:21:10,000 --> 02:21:14,720 we want until we make our final recommendation and that's you know so yeah we could do a straw 1321 02:21:14,720 --> 02:21:25,440 bill but my my question is did the council give us a firm number like we should not go above 210 1322 02:21:25,440 --> 02:21:33,040 or is that something that we in the committee can adjust the the resolution itself forming 1323 02:21:33,040 --> 02:21:38,560 the committee said to uh to look at a bond package not to exceed 210 million dollars 1324 02:21:38,560 --> 02:21:44,000 but the um the message that we received from council as we talked through the process was 1325 02:21:44,000 --> 02:21:49,200 if the committee wanted to go above that there would be that additional step of going back to 1326 02:21:49,200 --> 02:21:53,680 the the council and asking them to amend the resolution so that would be the mechanism to 1327 02:21:53,680 --> 02:21:59,840 get there right okay so that that was my question because i couldn't remember what if it was a 1328 02:21:59,840 --> 02:22:06,160 hard and fast 210 or if it was we'd just have to take that extra step to say hey we've had these 1329 02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:14,320 discussions because of west mckinney or various other states so southeast dent and do we have 1330 02:22:14,320 --> 02:22:21,280 the time to take that extra step to go back to council to amend the resolution uh we're very 1331 02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:25,120 close and like i'm bring up the schedule i can bring it up now or wait till the next item but 1332 02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:29,520 we're very close on time all the way around if we were going to do that it would be to happen 1333 02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:35,200 at the next meeting were we also tasked to come up with a 100 million dollar option 1334 02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:40,720 the the task was to consider 100 million dollar option uh previously we've we've shown kind of 1335 02:22:40,720 --> 02:22:44,320 what that would look like we can definitely bring that back that could be it's running 1336 02:22:44,320 --> 02:22:48,960 different scenarios at different amounts is no no problem so we could bring back 100 we could kind 1337 02:22:48,960 --> 02:22:55,280 of bring say you want that forwardization list we could do 100 150 180 210 as many as you'd like 1338 02:22:55,280 --> 02:23:01,440 if it would assist your conversation and so the intent of the 100 million dollars that that was 1339 02:23:01,440 --> 02:23:05,920 derived from saying that would keep us at our effective tax rate throughout the life of the 1340 02:23:05,920 --> 02:23:12,720 program whereas the 210 would keep us below our total tax rate i think one of the things that 1341 02:23:12,720 --> 02:23:20,240 might also be helpful to the committee is if we could have some historical data on what previous 1342 02:23:20,240 --> 02:23:30,000 bonds have uh suggested as the tax rate increase because if we're going to have a bond that is at 1343 02:23:30,960 --> 02:23:37,280 five cents six cents is what the what that number might be how does that compare with what we've 1344 02:23:37,280 --> 02:23:45,120 asked for previously um because i that needs to be a factor in terms of our decision of 1345 02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:51,680 what will the voters support and and there's going to be a there's going to be a pretty 1346 02:23:51,680 --> 02:23:56,960 important line that we'll have to determine as to what we think the voters will support 1347 02:23:59,680 --> 02:24:04,240 we can bring that back obviously previously we discussed the three cent that was associated with 1348 02:24:04,240 --> 02:24:11,120 right i think not only what was asked for what was suggested what actually actually happened 1349 02:24:11,120 --> 02:24:21,840 did we actually end up raising taxes and and and my only my only differentiation on that is 1350 02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:28,400 because of when the voters went to vote they were off they were they were going in with a three cent 1351 02:24:28,400 --> 02:24:35,280 in mind or whatever that number might be we may not have done that but if it was if we're talking 1352 02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:40,080 about something it might double what we've ever asked for before how will the we i think we have 1353 02:24:40,080 --> 02:24:47,760 to ask how will the voters respond to that i would also like to see how those items were listed on the 1354 02:24:47,760 --> 02:24:54,640 ballot how those bond proposals were worded on the ballot along with whatever the numbers are 1355 02:24:56,240 --> 02:25:03,600 and how we propose i know this one is proposed to be broken down to a certain point it's not just 1356 02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:08,080 all or nothing right two propositions public safety facilities and roadway infrastructure 1357 02:25:08,080 --> 02:25:13,440 so in 2012 it was only only a street rehab program so that was just one proposition 1358 02:25:13,440 --> 02:25:18,640 whereas in 2014 we had four propositions that we've gone through previously in that 1359 02:25:18,640 --> 02:25:23,120 right here so we can we can bring that back and show you in more detail exactly what the language 1360 02:25:23,120 --> 02:25:29,280 looked like and just kind of of 2014 we had that three three cent tax increase that we didn't 1361 02:25:29,280 --> 02:25:36,240 realize because our assessed value came in higher than our anticipations the worst case scenario 1362 02:25:36,240 --> 02:25:42,560 and in 2005 it was four four cents that we estimated to go to 1363 02:25:42,560 --> 02:25:52,720 so just to summarize tam asked for historically what we've asked for in the past in terms of tax 1364 02:25:52,720 --> 02:26:00,240 increase right right and then patty you asked how the exact wording that was used in the previous 1365 02:26:00,240 --> 02:26:06,640 bond elections and then randy's and then randy what actually happened right yeah right 1366 02:26:06,640 --> 02:26:12,240 are you so there's a lot of different language you have election ordinances bond language 1367 02:26:12,240 --> 02:26:17,120 proposition language are you most concerned with the bond language itself i'm i'm interested in 1368 02:26:17,120 --> 02:26:22,720 what's on the ballot ballot line because that's what john q voter is going to read what we have 1369 02:26:22,720 --> 02:26:32,480 to sell yeah okay because how things are worded can be very important okay we can bring that back 1370 02:26:32,480 --> 02:26:33,680 tracy good with all that 1371 02:26:33,680 --> 02:26:39,200 okay 1372 02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:46,240 any other army class yeah if i could real quick just get your feedback on something you probably 1373 02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:51,920 have a window to to get something to the council next tuesday it's gonna be the last time 1374 02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:58,400 they're gonna meet before you can you meet again and are you wanting us to take a resolution there 1375 02:26:58,400 --> 02:27:03,280 and get their feedback as to whether the committee should be looking at or is is able to consider 1376 02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:08,320 something over the 210 because because of the wording of the resolution if so we'll get that 1377 02:27:08,320 --> 02:27:17,040 done tomorrow but i think to be to do our our duty which is to consider in my opinion to give 1378 02:27:17,040 --> 02:27:23,920 our law enforcement and fire department the resources maybe do the job we have to at least 1379 02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:30,560 consider it if we can't if we need a resolution to go above 210 then i think we need to ask 1380 02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:38,160 for permission to do that yeah will you all agree with that statement anybody disagree we're not not 1381 02:27:38,160 --> 02:27:44,160 making a recommendation i'm just asking mother may i okay we'll get that handled tomorrow then 1382 02:27:44,160 --> 02:27:50,480 okay thanks in light of the the new in light of the new figures that have come in i think 1383 02:27:50,480 --> 02:28:00,480 we would be remiss if we didn't ask to consider more and that already includes the 100 to 210 so 1384 02:28:00,480 --> 02:28:09,200 the request to go if it's more than 210 that's correct okay great thanks okay 1385 02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:17,680 all right uh we think we have one more agenda i don't i already have it up based on the discussion 1386 02:28:17,680 --> 02:28:31,200 so if you want to move over to that agenda so uh next week we have uh more discussion more public 1387 02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:40,160 comment um earlier today we discussed do we need as a finance task force and everyone's 1388 02:28:40,160 --> 02:28:48,880 in welcome to attend i will if you show up i will buy you lunch uh well 1389 02:28:48,880 --> 02:28:57,520 so the question we had earlier today is do we need does that finance task force need to meet again 1390 02:28:57,520 --> 02:29:06,720 my suspicion at this point is probably not would you all agree and i'm asking the whole committee 1391 02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:13,120 here you want to i think we're going to get enough information for the full committee to have the 1392 02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:17,040 conversation we need to have can we all the information discussed earlier i can bring to 1393 02:29:17,040 --> 02:29:24,560 them okay so six o'clock meeting i just saved you a meeting david i appreciate it um and so we meet 1394 02:29:24,560 --> 02:29:33,040 the 18th and then the 25th is hard yeah date where we have i think i think we can feel certain we 1395 02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:38,480 won't have action next week um but i think we'll have a lot of good discussion and then the 25th 1396 02:29:38,480 --> 02:29:47,920 is really our our hard deadline um to to get to a point of a of a decision so um yeah hopefully we 1397 02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:52,880 have a good conversation next week to get there okay i would just like to say i i'd like to see 1398 02:29:52,880 --> 02:30:01,760 us at this next meeting be at a point that we have a preliminary uh plan that we will take final 1399 02:30:01,760 --> 02:30:08,000 action on on the 25th and i i think we ought to get we ought to attempt at this next meeting to 1400 02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:24,960 get pretty far down the road to that final decision right so then should then we kind of have a lot on 1401 02:30:24,960 --> 02:30:30,560 the plate right so i mean if you're not if we're not going to have a task force meeting then 1402 02:30:30,560 --> 02:30:37,040 should we maybe consider allotting more time or allowing for an earlier start time i mean 1403 02:30:37,040 --> 02:30:45,600 just the amount of time just a thought any thoughts on that 1404 02:30:45,600 --> 02:30:53,040 six o'clock is that a hard is there anything early or hard for someone else to make 1405 02:30:55,360 --> 02:31:07,360 five o'clock you couldn't or could not can you do 530 okay all right 530 would be better all right 1406 02:31:07,360 --> 02:31:17,280 let's do 530 okay unless you're strongly object to 530 we'll go for 530 great perfect okay all 1407 02:31:17,280 --> 02:31:29,200 right are we voting on each project individually is that how we're going to do it and say we're 1408 02:31:29,200 --> 02:31:34,560 going to do this and we're not going to do it because i feel like we need to be going through 1409 02:31:34,560 --> 02:31:39,200 it like that because well i want to put east bikini on there obviously but i i want to find 1410 02:31:39,200 --> 02:31:44,800 out maybe ryan for example at the bottom of kind of that list of what people were rating maybe 1411 02:31:44,800 --> 02:31:51,520 ryan is one that can be removed to put on another project or to keep our costs within a certain 1412 02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:55,600 budget or thing so that's why i'm wondering that we're doing the next meeting we're going to actually 1413 02:31:55,600 --> 02:32:01,040 could i if i could speak to that what i think will happen because what if we get the projects 1414 02:32:01,040 --> 02:32:08,800 with the dollar amounts in the order that we have here then then we see this is where the line is at 1415 02:32:08,800 --> 02:32:15,040 180 this is the line at 210 230 then we're able to get to exactly what you what you're talking about 1416 02:32:15,040 --> 02:32:21,760 i don't think we have to necessarily be debating the top items on the on that unless there's some 1417 02:32:21,760 --> 02:32:28,000 driving reason to do that but we can get to what are the what are the ones that that are above or 1418 02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:35,120 below the line so with that question can we do one more survey that includes mckinney street 1419 02:32:36,320 --> 02:32:39,680 i'd like to know kind of kind of where it would rank in the list 1420 02:32:39,680 --> 02:32:44,560 if the committee would like that i can i can send another survey 1421 02:32:44,560 --> 02:32:59,200 include what the price amount is yes that that yeah 1422 02:33:06,560 --> 02:33:11,200 i don't think it's going to change anything but it's okay is that make sure that is everyone 1423 02:33:11,200 --> 02:33:15,920 comfortable with the way the survey was handled as far as just seeing kind of a summary view not 1424 02:33:15,920 --> 02:33:20,960 anonymous to some degree obviously when you when you all get together the discussion 1425 02:33:20,960 --> 02:33:29,040 amongst everyone is open okay great for instance on ryan road there's a range right on ryan road 1426 02:33:29,040 --> 02:33:35,520 and we didn't really have a chance the way the survey was the last time to you know put ourselves 1427 02:33:35,520 --> 02:33:44,000 into a range at the four million or the 14 million i could do different amounts four to four to four 1428 02:33:44,000 --> 02:33:49,920 to eight eight to twelve thank you okay everyone track with what he just said 1429 02:33:49,920 --> 02:34:00,560 okay all right any other questions comments concerns all right i'll take a motion to adjourn 1430 02:34:02,560 --> 02:34:07,840 second have a nice evening thanks everyone