Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton traffic safety commission meeting.
It is Monday July 1st 2019.
We have a quorum and it is 534.
The first item up for discussion is number 1A, items for consideration, TSC 19-029 which
is to consider the approval of the traffic safety commission meetings of June 3rd 2019.
Does everyone have a chance to look at them?
Does anybody have any corrections or additions or is somebody ready to make a motion?
I move we accept.
We have one motion for approval.
Second.
We have a second.
Everyone in favor?
Aye.
Opposed?
Okay.
Passes unanimously.
We're moving on to item 1B, TSC 19-030 which is to receive a report and hold a discussion
regarding the parking enforcement on the city streets around the University of North Texas
from university transportation services.
Good evening members of the commission.
My name is Pritam Deshmukh.
I'm the deputy city engineer and I would like to introduce the new staff liaison which is
our new city traffic engineer Brian Yon.
He brings a lot of experience and I think you're in good hands moving forward.
So I want to get this item started, hand over the baton and Brian is going to take it from
there.
It was a pleasure working with you all.
Thank you.
And we're going to be hazing Brian.
So I think we're going to play a video from the mobility committee and then Mr. Phelps
is in the audience to take questions so we're going to see if we can get this to work.
That's what we're going to do.
Deal?
Yeah.
And you can bring that cards up any time.
But we'll take one more item and then we'll go to the Forest Ridge item.
Just we're going to receive a report and hold this is item H. Receive a report and hold
a discussion regarding the parking enforcement on the city streets around the University
of North Texas from university transportation services.
I'll just highlight for those who follow these sort of things, it's not a pending matter.
We're not giving direction.
We're going to receive a report and hold a discussion.
Good morning.
My name is Chris Phelps.
I'm the Director for Transportation Services at UNT.
With me today I have Brandy Renton, our Associate Vice President, over transportation services
and Stan Nixon, Assistant Director for Transportation Services.
We wanted to take this opportunity.
We appreciate the invitation out this morning.
Unfortunately, last month we were, I think, in the midst of commencement so we were out
helping that event.
So we appreciate the opportunity to come here.
I'd like to use this as an opportunity to begin a conversation with the committee.
I think this is my first time here.
We do have a number of working relationships with folks.
Welcome.
Thank you.
We have a number of working relationships with folks here in the room.
We're very appreciative of that.
We want to give you kind of an overview of what we do with transportation services and
then kind of begin that conversation of where you think that's appropriate at this committee
level as we go forward with the city.
We've had some initiatives in the past several months and I think there's a great opportunity
for us to give you an overview of what we do, help you understand what we do and how
we can work together to help both our community for our residents and our students and our
visitors and guests that are coming.
What do we have in way of resources?
I think we all hear about parking as a general thing.
We currently have more than 13,000 spaces to accommodate parking on campus both at the
main campus and Discovery Park.
Last year we added over 500 spaces out near Apogee Park or Apogee Field to assist with
student parking, resident parking.
Big major project going on at the former Fouts Field location.
The stadium is down, we're paving today, there's asphalting going on.
That will add an additional 1,000 spaces to our inventory.
Campus population is roughly 45,000 folks.
The mix of what we have in terms of hourly visitor permitted valet, the options transportation
is enough to meet the needs of our community.
We'll talk about, and with the addition of Fouts, the 1,000 spaces will meet the needs
for some time to come.
So when we hear about parking is a challenge at UNT, that is true.
There are some location issues, certainly not an inventory issue.
We have parking for folks on campus and we have a variety of options to help them pay
for that parking.
So we've gone from a more traditional mode where it's a permit, so we have folks who
do distance learning or other types of learning where there may be more infrequent visitors
to campus.
We have different options to help that because a permit may not be the best fit for their
needs and so we want to be sensitive to that.
Talking about some of the alternatives that we have, Zipcar, we encourage folks nowadays
with our partnership with DCTA that get you in and around town.
You don't need a car.
We have four Zipcars that you can rent by the hour, anywhere from about $5.50 an hour
to $9.50 an hour, which includes your fuel, your insurance, the whole ball of work.
So you've absolutely, positively got to go somewhere that you can't get on a DCTA bus,
use the Zipcar.
They can be rented by the hour, by the day, by the weekend, and whatnot.
Parking at Med Park, appreciate Nicole's talk there about using Med Park as a parking area.
We use that with the partnership with DCTA as a way for folks to, if they're coming up
I-35E, they can park at Med Park, ride the Colorado Express in, and it takes you directly
to the Union.
So if you don't want to pay for parking on campus or deal with the location issues, stop
at Med Park, ride the bus in.
It's convenient.
It's all-day service.
Use the A-Train.
We're a quick trip from downtown.
Use the VO Ride partnerships that we've got, we've got some options using the quick bicycle
ride down.
Public transportation within the city of Denton.
We'll talk a little bit more here.
The students pay a transportation fee for bus service.
That is a fee, and we'll talk later about that, but as part of that fee, as we've negotiated
with DCTA, is they can use their student ID to access any fixed route within the city
of Denton to go where they need to go.
And then, of course, VO Ride.
Parking behaviors.
I've been in transportation a very long time, most of it in public transportation.
Parking, I'll tell you what our data shows, people don't like change.
We've had a lot of change at UNT in the last several years.
1,200 parking spaces lost due to the new buildings and infrastructure that's going in.
These are great things, but surface lots on the interior campus are a dialing breed.
It's prime real estate.
As we develop the campus, these are where things go.
So parking goes to the periphery.
People don't like to pay for parking on campus.
As you look at paying for parking, we all pay for parking irrespective of where we go.
If I go shopping at the grocery store, I'm paying for parking.
It's wrapped up as part of the overhead.
Because of the way in which state statute is written, we cannot wrap up our parking
fees into a fee or a tuition.
Only those people who use our services can be charged for it.
If you come to campus, don't own a car, don't park on campus, you don't have to pay for
our services.
But the people who do, they have to pay for that.
So there's that understanding why.
And emotional.
Yes, sir?
>> We have a question.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> I just wanted to ask the question before I forget and why you just said it.
So you mentioned earlier that there's a transportation fee.
>> Yes.
>> Is that for all students?
>> Yes.
It is for all students, not covered by a waiver exemption, and attend class on campus.
>> And so that parking fee is something different than the transportation fee?
>> Correct.
And that's covered in state statute.
The fee is something the students, they vote on, and they pay for out of their student
fees.
And so it's a very specific part of legislation.
The student transportation fee can only be used for buses, it may not be used for parking.
Parking funds go both ways.
I can use it for parking, I can use it for bikes, I can use it for buses.
But it doesn't work the reverse.
So it's a very tailored specific fee that is allowed under current legislation.
>> Okay.
I was just trying to get that straight.
>> Yeah.
It is, a lot of people don't know.
And it is very specific.
I'll talk a little bit more about the transportation fee and what we've got there.
And I was going to wrap up on behaviors being emotional.
It's an emotional event for folks.
I mean, we're all users of services.
As you go somewhere and you pull in and you get that front spot, you feel pretty good.
But I would venture how many of you have ever called into the store manager and said, hey,
I got a front spot, thank you.
No, we don't.
We go on about our day.
But we hear from folks vocalizing issues about the parking challenges on campus.
And so we've got some ways that we have begun outreach.
We'll continue to do outreach, build partnerships.
We want our students and our guests to be successful.
So we need to make sure that we're making sure that they have the information they need
to make those choices as they go forward.
Parking enforcement, we do it.
It's one of the services outside of the others.
But we do enforce parking on campus.
Why?
Tens of thousands of people are on campus every day.
When you look at densities at UNT proper, as compared to regular Denton County, I think
it's somewhere in the numbers.
I think Denton County population density is probably 1,400 people per mile.
You get into UNT, it's upwards of 25, 26,000 people.
So there's a lot of people in a very congested area, and that creates a lot of challenges.
80% of the people, we go with the old 80/20 rule, 80% of the people go forward with their
day.
They have a good day.
The 20% are the ones that create problems for the rest of us, and unfortunately we work
to ensure that the people who pay for the services they want get access to those services.
So folks aren't taking advantage of that.
We do some things to help become more of a service and less of an enforcement.
This year, with the new academic year, we've made a change to our enforcement structure.
It's a more staggered approach.
So the first two citations you get are either $0 or very minimal nuisance, kind of $10 charge.
That's our opportunity to kind of say, hey, here's the rules, here's the regs, here's
what you need, outreach so that folks know if they have questions, they can reach us.
As you progressively move on through getting the same one, the third, fourth, and fifth
time, the fees get greater and greater.
Hopefully this will encourage folks that didn't know, okay, hey, whoops, I now have some information,
I can contact someone, and those that know, they know.
We work with our customers.
We spend an amount of time, especially first time in college.
These are the kids fresh out of high school.
It's a brand new world for them.
So we spend a lot of times doing outreach for them to help them navigate that transition
into life.
And part of it in our department, we kid that they're in class studying whatever topics
are of interest to their major or personally, but we're kind of helping them in that transition
into life.
So you get that citation, call us, let us hear from you, let us know what's going on.
Warning stickers, we've made a change this last year where we do put some warning stickers
on vehicles windows.
They're bright green.
You can't miss them if you see them driving around.
That's basically a sticker that says, hey, we've noticed you have a problem on your parking
account.
You have 48 hours to give us a call.
Let us hear from you so that we can help you with whatever it is.
As a last resort, we have to tow someone or impound somebody's vehicle, but we all make
these efforts that folks say, hey, please call us.
And again, a lot of these are students that are making decisions.
They don't know the consequences.
They're embarrassed.
They hope it'll go away.
And the worst thing we can do is impound their property, and it spirals out.
So we hope that some of these things say, hey, we're kind of serious.
We really want to hear from you.
And I think that's been a success this last year and the implementation of that in terms
of people coming in to talk to us, and that's huge for us to have that opportunity to visit.
Folks are busy.
They've got a lot going on.
I understand this is the last thing you want to do, but we want to help you be successful.
And then proactive education through orientations, through residence halls, through community
events, coming out and doing things like this.
We want to reach out to folks, let them know of the education, so that here's what you
can do.
Here's the resources for you.
Where do my parking dollars go?
So I got to pay to park.
What do I get for that?
Capital improvements, new parking lots.
We've got $14 million going in at Fouts, 3 and 1/2, we talked about it at Apogee, Highland
Street Garage.
We've got a bond mortgage on that.
So in 2042, I think we're paid off on that.
So that's a $22 million facility that needs to be paid for.
Operating and maintenance, lot maintenance, lights, striping, potholes, curb stops.
Police services, we fund 80% of the UNT Police Department, so public safety.
So your dollars get public safety on campus, which is very important.
Event support, I mentioned commencements.
We do an enormous amount of event support on campus.
We're a destination for not only students, but guests and visitors that may be coming
to hear a guest speaker going to graduation ceremony or other type of events.
So we're there as a destination, so we want to help folks, helps go.
So again, my parking dollars, this is where they go.
Notice this is not transportation dollars, it's parking dollars.
Our next steps, we want to improve our partnerships with the City of Denton, with all of our stakeholders.
This is part of that today.
How can we help work with you so that you have the information that you need so when
you hear from constituents, you hear from business owners, you hear from interested
parties in the public about parking at UNT, you know where to go.
We've enjoyed working with the staff, we look to increase that and make our staff available
to you all so that we're a resource for you as well.
Transportation fee sustainability, this is the bus fee.
It was created in January 2003 at $3.50 per credit hour, and it has remained that fee
ever since.
So as you look at, you think, okay, well, what's happened over time?
When you look at what you paid for stuff in 2003 versus today, there's an obvious change.
Bus drivers are making more money, buses are more expensive to buy, cost of doing business
has increased.
Yes, it's based on a student credit hour, so you say, okay, well, there's some growth.
Well, we've reached in long past that point where growth provides sustainability for that.
So we have begun a discussion, we'll be continuing a discussion with student leadership on campus
about what that sustainability looks like.
Do we need to take a look at what services do you want?
What do you as students want in terms of transportation?
And then what do you want to pay for and make sure that the fee aligns with those expectations.
And increased spaces on campus reduces competition for parking, managing expectations, better
bus service with new station.
We've got a bus station going out at Fouts.
There's a dedicated transfer station with amenities, covered waiting, it'll have Wi-Fi,
it'll have monitors for bus arrival information, it's dedicated.
So it's not competing right now like it does with pedestrians and traffic.
So that will help that.
We've begun to look at some long range planning with DCTA, the cog on some bigger projects
that I think would complement not only the university but the neighborhood as we manage
that destination as being a source for where people go.
So there's some things out there.
As we look at transportation changes, it's being competitive in the marketplace and we're
fortunate in this area to be blessed with a lot of population, a lot of growth, a lot
of, again, people coming here.
And we want to continue to lead on being competitive and being a choice for folks.
And so we think with the options that we've got, it helps students, faculty, staff, guests,
and visitors manage their trip out.
And we'd like to continue working with you.
So a very generic overview, you may have some specific questions, and we're happy to begin
that conversation.
I'm happy to answer any questions you might have today.
Again, we're here, we are a resource for you, please let us know how we can help you.
So I know it's very general, but I'd like to answer any questions that you might have.
So we have two options, one, we can listen to the question and answer from the mobility
panel.
Okay, can you hear me now?
So we have two options.
We can listen to the question and answer period from the mobility committee, or we can just
jump into, because Mr. Phelps is here.
If you have specific questions you'd like to ask, we can just jump straight into that
choice of the committee.
How long did their questions stay?
I don't remember.
I was there, but I do not remember.
It was a while.
So again, this is online, you can always come back and watch it.
So if you'd like just to jump into your specific questions.
Yeah, we'd like to hear from you.
Well, I'll go back and watch it.
Good evening and thank you again.
I'm Chris Phelps, Director for Transportation Services at UNT.
I am pleased to be here.
I brought Stan Nixon with me.
He helps with our transit projects, special projects, a lot of our planning efforts there
as an Assistant Director in our department.
I believe this is the second time I've been to this committee.
We was here last year, so happy to be back.
I think my understanding is we kind of did this backwards.
We hit mobility committee before traffic safety.
Nonetheless, I'm happy to be here, I'm happy to answer questions, share information.
I'll leave some cards for you all.
Please don't be strangers.
You want to know something, call me, ask, I'm happy to have you come out.
We can take you on tours around, show you what's happening there.
But we are interested in working with the city to be better partners with our community.
So I think you'll find that we do listen, we do a lot of outreach, a lot of things to
help facilitate that.
However, I've been in this role for two years now.
There's a lot of myths out there.
And everybody hears and they talk about things they think they know about, but then there's
the reality.
And we tried to hit a little bit on that in that presentation.
And so as you hear about things at UNT, parking in particular, ask those questions.
Is that really?
And give me a call.
I'm happy to share that with you.
But again, happy to answer any questions.
I will leave my cards here for you.
So please, please take them.
And for anybody here on the committee or whatnot, any groups, I'm happy to be a resource for
you.
So thank you again.
Okay.
I have a question.
Yes, ma'am.
So you said that it would be in 2018 that you added 500 spots to the Apogee side of
campus.
That's correct.
530 or so.
530.
Then you'll be adding approximately 1,000.
That's correct.
Over at Fouts.
But have removed 1,200 then from the inner campus.
So really we're looking at a net gain of approximately 330 over the past two years.
Right.
Okay.
So the question I get from my students -- I teach at UNT -- so the question I get from
my students is do they over -- do they -- that's you -- oversell parking permits?
So the answer is yes and no.
Which permits would determine the more appropriate answer?
So students are going to say commuter permits.
Do we oversell?
Yes.
Why do we oversell?
Because not everybody's here on the same days and times.
So Tuesday, Thursdays are our busiest days.
Classes go from 8 o'clock in the morning until 1050 at night.
Right.
Depending on labs.
So do we oversell?
And I hate to say what oversell is.
We probably sell about 9,700 EGLE permits.
But again, you have -- not everybody's there Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 are the same
time.
Right.
So it's a qualified answer.
But there are areas where we do.
Yeah.
I told them.
Why would they leave a spot open on Monday, Wednesday, Friday?
Right.
Do -- what do you hear about -- so I use the Zipcar.
Okay.
Good.
And so I love that Zipcar.
Okay.
Good.
And what do you in general hear about the -- about how many students use the Zipcar
and what kind of feedback and what can we do to increase the use of Zipcar?
So that's a good question.
I get generally a lot of interest at new student orientations, both incoming freshmen and transfer
students that, "Hey, do I need to bring a car?"
So we have an opportunity to talk about that there, and that is received very positively.
The other information comes from Zipcar in terms of what our usage is looking like in
terms of it's good or -- you know, a lot of the ride share and the sharing industry, it's
very -- I don't want to say they don't share, it's just very generic in what we do get in
terms of what is their customer data and whatnot.
But in our information with them, that is a good program.
We do share communications frequently as part of our social media push.
When folks come to the office, we try to remind folks of the Zipcar option.
And so that is how we continue to keep that in the front.
There's a lot of times Zipcar does promotions, we announce that to our community, mainly
through social media pushes.
But then I come to committees like this, and as I go around campus, I'll hear about folks
who do use that.
And I think the best way for us to do is to really hear from the users on how it works
for them.
I think people hear us talk about it, but, okay, they hear me talk about a lot of things.
But I think it's getting some of that feedback from real users, almost like testimonials,
if you will, that say, hey, this is -- you know, I've got faculty staff a lot that use
it.
And I think that's great.
I see them out just because when I'm out, I notice that because it's part of our service.
So I do like to see that.
And then, you know, we have four of them.
They have dedicated homes.
So as I'm out on campus and I see the car gone, it's either in use or it may be out
for maintenance.
But typically, I get an email when it's being removed from service.
So if it's not there, it's generally being used.
So I have been pleased with that.
Of course, I would like to see that grow from four to six to eight or more.
But I think it's a niche product that meets some needs.
I think folks in this part of the country are afraid to let go of that freedom of having
their car.
And I think the folks who have explored this have found out, hey, this really does work.
And kind of seeing is believing.
And I think that's really where we've got to get folks to bite off.
And we really push that at orientations.
I mean, we graduate several thousand each year.
We've got to replace them with an incoming class.
And that's where we push that a lot.
And as someone who spent a majority of their career in public transportation, we tell folks,
look, you don't need a car.
You can literally get to campus.
You can navigate around.
We've got ride share options.
And now, like I said in the presentation, if you absolutely need a car to go somewhere,
then we've got you covered.
And it's relatively economical.
So I think it's just capturing that and really getting people to try that.
And I rely on our industry partners to share with me how we're doing.
We don't make money on that service.
So that is something that really complements the community.
It's something that the more folks I get to use that, they're paying for the direct benefit
of using that fuel insurance and whatever the Zipcar, there's an annual fee.
We don't make money on that service.
And there's a few of them that we don't make money on.
But they complement kind of our mission.
And so by making sure that program is successful, much like the bus and the veal ride, anything
I can do to get folks out of a car that makes parking available for those that do choose
to drive.
That would be something that would be good for parents.
I found out when I took my oldest kid to orientation at UT years ago.
And so that very first orientation was when UT said, don't even bring your car.
And they just laid down the line, don't do it.
And then said, and their Zipcar.
And so for 15 bucks a year, you've got that.
But that would be something good to push out to parents and even start planting that seed
during orientation, during campus tours.
And we do.
We have several parent-centric orientations throughout the summer.
We do share that.
And I think that's, again, an area where I think more is-- more outreach, more communication
is better.
But in the years in this business, it has gone through a shift to people are now talking
about it much more than they used to.
And so I think that's a good thing.
And I will tell you that most cars on campus, if you're a resident living on campus, your
car leaves its spot infrequently.
So a couple times a week, there are some outliers that they may work and they're driving to
work more frequently.
But we used to have some bus routes on campus that traveled through predominantly resident
area.
Nobody ever got on because it's car storage.
We have residents that park in the Highland Street garage.
And I can tell you just on data, they're leaving about every 2 and 1/2 days is what that activity
looks like.
And with your campus activities, bus routes, some of the other options, you don't-- it's
pure convenience.
And I respect that.
But I think when you take a look at, OK, what's the cost of that convenience?
And you're paying what you're paying in student fees and all that, really?
But it's a perceived freedom that folks have that I can go whenever, wherever, however.
And I think it's just trying to reach and make sure folks know that.
We have-- in the spring and fall semesters, we have transportation options seven days
a week, 24 hours a day.
So--
Yeah.
And something that's not, of course, under your purview.
But I've heard that TWU tells freshmen they cannot bring cars to campus.
Right.
Some universities do.
And that's what they do.
And we have not been at a point-- like I said, that-- resident parking is not the real issue.
I have an inventory available for everyone.
Folks don't understand how we're funded.
I don't want to pay any more in fees.
I'm already paying enough in fees and tuition.
I get zero-- it's forbidden by state law-- to-- it's not where I want it.
And I respect that, too.
But as we try to tell folks, it's one of those-- it's a balance between economics, spending
what money we have wisely, spending it, I think, what folks would say, in good stewardship,
as opposed to having a bunch of unused parking spaces that are very expensive to maintain.
And so it's like traveling to work.
And if anybody's traveling down the interstate, you're leaving at weird hours because if you
leave at two minutes past six, it's going to be-- it gets exponentially worse.
Parking is the same way.
And I hear from folks that say, well, I shouldn't have to get to class very early.
Well, you don't.
But if your expectation is to park up front, yeah, you kind of have to get there early.
But it's like I leave-- I commute from Fort Worth.
I leave very early.
Why?
Because it's easier.
And it's less stressful.
And it's a choice I make.
It's a 25-minute ride.
And if I left at 735, I can guarantee you I won't make it here at 8 o'clock.
So it's a lot of the same in the parking.
And it's-- folks transition, especially from high school-- and I went to high school in
the area.
I drove to high school.
I had an assigned parking spot.
That's a common expectation when I interview a lot of students.
Did you go to high school and drive?
Yes.
Did you have assigned parking?
Yes.
So folks form this basis.
They say, OK, I know I can get up at 740, and it takes me 10 minutes and 10 minutes
to walk.
I'll be at class at 8 o'clock.
You can't do that here.
It's a vibrant campus.
Folks are-- they're not just attending class.
They're working.
They're researching.
You're competing with tens of thousands of people for limited spots.
And so when you bring that approach-- and that's where you hear a lot of the vocalizations.
They're trying to do what they've always done to be successful to get to class on time.
And so that's part of that-- what we deal with in trying to-- you're right.
We're with you.
The realities are, do you want to get to class on time?
I can do that.
But we have to reform your expectation in that.
Otherwise, a parking garage-- every spot in a parking garage is about $24,000 in current
dollars.
So people say, OK, just build parking garages.
Well, at $50 million a pop, and you're complaining about the price permits now, how do you want
to do that?
And so this is why we have the options we do.
Go park remote.
We have bus transportation.
I have students who live on campus that drive to class, because waiting eight minutes for
bus-- in between buses is too long.
And it's there.
And I'm with you.
I want nothing more than to pull up where I'm going to.
But reality is, I can get you there, but here's what you've got to do.
And you don't want to pay for parking?
We've got a great partnership with DCTA.
Go to Med Park.
Hop on the bus.
You can take the train, the bus, and you can be there.
But again, I think it's understanding what you're getting into.
And the narrative changes with folks.
As someone who's been in business a long time, you tell me I have a 5 o'clock airport trip
in the morning.
I've got to go to Chicago.
I know what that means.
I know how to back that up and understand, OK, I can't miss a flight.
I've got to plan for every eventuality, which means I get there super duper early.
Is that right?
I don't know, but I don't want to miss my flight in whatever obligation I have.
It's hard to have that with folks coming right out of the house, out of the nest into real
life.
And so the narrative that we hear from folks, we have to qualify that, OK, there's no parking
on campus.
And I hear that a lot.
I have it.
What are you trying to do?
And that is a different conversation than we don't have enough parking.
OK.
You bet, Melissa.
Yes.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, I'm a DCTA bus operator, and I've been going in circles for eight years.
And one thing that has never been addressed, I don't think, is let's talk about peak load.
Let's talk about the classes start at-- they all start at the same time, and they all get
out at the same time.
Have you ever had any luck changing that?
So in terms-- so that's a big answer, or it's a big question because there's a lot in it.
What's the most popular days for class?
Tuesday, Thursday.
OK.
So you get into the academic side, what's the most popular time to teach?
10 to 2.
And so you look at the resources on campus, you've got to spread that out to get the maximum
benefit of that.
So you've got to find somebody who wants to teach at weird hours, and somebody who wants
to go to class at weird hours.
But more relative to bus capacity, bus loads, it's very much like peak traffic.
We know, and we hear, and you all capture a pretty good snapshot of what the ridership
looks like.
If-- let's say I'm at the ridge at North Texas, and I have an 8 o'clock class, and there's
a 740 bus, that's going to get me to class on time, and everybody else too.
It's a peak issue.
So one of the things we try to communicate with students is understand peak travel periods.
Take the earlier bus, take the next bus, you'll find passenger loads very different.
Discovery Park is an area where we need to do some outreach, and they offset their schedule,
so they're a little bit different.
So folks may take a course at Discovery Park and then got to come back to main campus,
and schedules are offset, but they're not offset to handle the loads that we carry.
So we've got to have a conversation with them to understand what is your scheduling when
students take classes.
While this looks great on paper, I mean, let's look at Bonnie Bray.
Bonnie Bray, there's a roundabout now, it's impacting-- so-- but traffic impacts that.
There's a lot of things.
It's not just the sheer-- it's three miles up the road.
It's a lot of factors.
Look at Razor Ranch development now, there's a lot more-- there's a lot more people want
to go to this area, a lot more traffic we're doing.
So there's a lot of things we need to take a look at.
So the easy answer is take a look at your schedule, take the earlier bus.
If you're on a route where the bus is by every few minutes, take that earlier one.
Yeah, you might have to get out of bed 10 minutes earlier, but you know what?
You'll get to where you need to be.
Absent that, I think we are working-- especially this year, we'll take a look at some things
as we've worked with DCTA staff to be more dynamic in where buses go.
So if you're on the center place bus route, for example, and there's five buses, but that's
kind of what it's been scheduled.
But I don't need five buses during this period of time.
I can reassign that bus to say Discovery Park where I do need the capacity.
So we're going to try some things there that really match more of that need in peak areas.
That makes sense.
We'll try it.
Part of it is, Jim, as well as the transportation fee that hadn't been changed since 2003.
And we're in progress now trying to work with the Student Government Association to address
that.
As far as Discovery Park, which I did for four years straight, who planned the detour?
We and DCTA for the-- For going down Nectar.
Yeah.
That's what we did.
We did with them.
So it was a group effort.
Because the street is cracked.
Yeah.
Melissa?
Good question.
Yes, ma'am.
So when I go into the UNT campus during the regular semester, there's tons of bikes.
And so I'm curious if you have-- I mean, a lot of times students bring bikes and then
they don't ride them.
Do you have an average of the number of bike commuters?
And also, do you do anything to promote safety while riding a bike on the streets?
Yes and yes.
So I don't have the actual number of commuters.
We bike and pedestrian and bicycle activities are under our purview.
A couple things I will share with you is we have a bike committee that meets regularly.
And that's open to whomever would like to be there.
But we usually meet a few times in the fall and the spring, take the summer off, to help
strategize not only just bicycle-centric issues, but we have also folks who share pedestrian
concerns because of the shared pathways in the bike.
So I think we have a good cross-section of folks.
Last year, 2017 now, we were recognized as a bike-friendly university.
So that is a first step for us.
So I think there's a lot that we're doing.
VO Ride's been a new one for us.
We did a pilot program in partnership with the city this last year.
The lifecycle of the bike, and I'll keep it brief here, is everybody gets excited to go
to college, parents buy them a bike, and it goes out to this rack and it sits there in
the sun and the rain and the wind, and it's a very sad tale, and at the end of the year,
the tires are flat and pieces are missing, and it's chained up.
And then in June, after commencements, so just after our mobility committee meeting,
we go through and put little tags on all the bikes, little yellow tags.
And after two weeks, those that still have tags, we cut the locks and collect those.
And we keep those bikes until about the first two weeks of school, when invariably somebody
comes back and says, "Oh, where'd my little bike go?"
And it's a black Schwinn, and it's, "Oh, my goodness."
So we've got piles of them.
I will tell you anecdotally, this year, that number looks to be about half what it normally
was.
I attribute that to the bike share, because part of our messaging was, "Please don't bring
a bike."
It's a very sad tale.
I'm a bike rider, okay?
I ride during lunch.
It's a sad tale.
We see a lot of sad equipment.
Don't bring it.
Instead, part of your transportation fee, we buy down the monthly or annual rate on
the VeoRide subscription.
And then you've got a bike when you need it, where you need it.
And when you're done with it, you're done with it.
So anecdotally, this year, it looks to be about half the number of bikes that we seem
to collect.
And that's a good trend.
So we're getting ready here in July now to start collecting.
So probably next week, we'll start the collection after the holiday.
And so then I'll be able to tell you how many that is.
But encouraging news.
So tell me what you do to help students understand how to ride safely on the streets.
So we have two league-certified instructors on campus.
Usually during first flight week, they will hold -- that's one of the -- first flight
is we're all incoming freshmen.
It's like a week-long conference, and there's different tracks, and they get to pick things
that are important to them.
We added a DCTA bus ride this last year that was very popular.
But one of those is some bike safety.
And there are some one-off events throughout the year in partnership with SGA or some others
to help do some cycling events, maybe some preventive maintenance, how to change a tire,
things like that.
And so that's, again, through our committee, that we do that.
We'd like to establish a more permanent kind of a storefront, if you will, on campus.
So if folks have any kind of bike question, they know where to go.
Right now, it's -- you know, there's a number of bike shops in town, and I'm not saying
we have to run that.
We'd like to partner with someone so that there's at least a front there where folks
know, "Hey, I can go here for some direction."
And I think it's about, again, reaching out to the community and let them know that, you
know, "Yeah, we're the parking people, but we're also the bicycle people, and we can
help you.
We can help you with that."
So a lot of folks, again, they don't -- we do a lot of communicating, but it still, to
this day, impresses me how much more we have to go to make sure, you know, people -- I
didn't know that.
Do you know we do jump starts, we put air in your tire, and we put some gas in your
car if you run out of gas.
Most people go, "I have no idea."
Well, these are good things that we do, and we advertise that.
It's just how do we find that message.
So I think there's some good news on the bike front.
More to come, and that's something we work with Mark on a whole lot.
We'd like to work with the city on that.
One of our goals -- we renew our bike-friendly status in 2021.
We'd like to maintain, at least move up perhaps to silver, but one of those things is to partner
with the city and help on that front.
We'd like to see y'all become a bike-friendly city.
So we'd like to help with that as well.
Fantastic.
Thank you.
Yes, sir.
When people come in, and they can ride Discovery and all that stuff, is that just for the students
or is that for anybody?
It's for anybody.
Okay.
Yep.
Campus buses are open to the public.
Okay.
So, you know, and it's always been that way.
In fact, it was just in the newspaper.
It didn't record Chronicle.
Can counties ride that?
I wanted to clarify, because it didn't --
No, yeah, you can.
You can.
It's open to the public.
You know, it wasn't like, "Yes, you can."
Yep.
You sure can.
And then they went on to something else.
That's part of the reason we partnered with DCTA, because it's great for the students,
but there's also that benefit for the city folks.
Okay.
And as the article said, you know, we've got -- it's additional service up and down.
Bonnie Bray, if you're going to Razor Ranch or whatnot, it's more bus service than you
would otherwise have.
So it would come on.
Okay.
One of the parking problems that we have with the 35-foot buses, and this gets into the
enforcement with the cars, you know, you're supposed to be so many feet away from the
curb.
Yep.
There's always -- it's the same car, all semester, who parks in the last spot, and you can't
make that turn.
And most of our accidents out there are with stationary objects, parks, you know, parking.
So they used to -- in the old days, they used to boot them, but, you know, I don't know.
So we're towing now rather than booting, and that's part of what was in the presentation.
We put a green sticker on it that says, "Please call me.
I'm serious.
Please don't ignore me."
And if you don't, after 48 hours, we tow your car.
What I would say, Jim, in that, there are a number of streets where we partner with
the city to enforce.
Some of that is free city parking, some of it is permitted parking.
All of the streets that we enforce, we periodically go through and re-stripe, and that is generally
a striping plan that goes through the city and is routed for approvals, and then we have
a contract to come out and stripe that.
Central Avenue is one we did a couple of years ago.
So from Maple or Eagle all the way to Highland Street, it is striped.
It has helped that street tremendously, clean up, people know where to park, it's very clear,
it's very easy to enforce, and that crowding situation no longer exists there.
And you always get the people that they think they're a small car, they can squeeze in.
I'm over the line instead of doing the line.
But we do enforce.
Those ones that you have a concern on, share with your dispatch, have them send it to us.
We'll go out there and find out who they are.
If it's not a street I enforce on, then I can work, you know, maybe work with the folks
at the city to say, you know, what can we do?
But most of the streets, not knowing which in particular, we've got some sort of a partnership
with, and we'll go out and find out who those folks are.
But you're the eyes and ears out there.
Share that with dispatch.
If you're going to have my card, if you want to share that with me, I'll send folks out
there and find out who they are.
And then we'll have a conversation with them, and hopefully we'll get them where they go.
And if it's an area where we need to restripe, we're starting that.
I mean, we've got some work coming up here in July.
Are you on board with the new thing, going down Hickory and taking the right on Welch
for discovery?
Because the Avenue A is going to be one way out.
Going down Hickory on Welch, oh, for Avenue A going one way?
You know, I think it's a compromise.
I think the university, and when I talk to students, and I can't speak for the university,
but for the department, for the students, it was to stay with the city by plan as approved.
I think this is a compromise that helps with that.
It removes the loading zone parking and makes angled parking, so that's going to be an interesting
issue for the businesses.
I just had a conversation this morning about that.
But we'll see.
We enforced that area through partnership with the city, so I'm happy to share with what
I learn and come back to you and let you know what that looks like.
I'm an optimist, Jim.
I think that we'll give this a go and see how it works.
Time will tell exactly what happens, but I'd like to take the positive approach on it.
It maintains the bicycle lane through Hickory, which I think is important, and as a bike
rider, you know, I know what that means.
If I go on my bike ride, I go from the Highland Street garage to Eagle and I get on that bike
lane.
It's great.
I don't have to make a bunch of strange maneuvers and detours to get where I'm going.
It really is great.
I think you'll see the same thing on Highland Street.
I think the connection from Bonnie Bray to Carroll is important, but being respectful
of some of the businesses in that, I think it's a compromise, and I want to see how that
works out.
And then we'll have data.
We'll know.
And then we can make an informed decision on, was this a good thing?
Do we need to tweak it?
What did we not anticipate?
And so that's my non-answer for you.
Well, you might look at a long time ago.
We used to go down to Bernard and take a right.
You might look at that because that right turn onto Welsh, Pre-Tam already said that
he would have to redo the corner so he could roll over.
So I would say, you know, Jim, those things there, as you've shared that, if you have
shared that, if you have some ideas you'd like me to go take a look at, me and my staff,
I'm happy to do it.
Share that with me.
I'll leave you my card.
And certainly, you know, we appreciate what you're doing out there, what the folks are
doing to get our students around, and, you know, we want to help facilitate that.
And I think we have a good dialogue with DCTA at this time in terms of some of the capital
work.
And as we get out in the city streets, we'll engage the city with that.
But the university and the city leadership, they meet, the senior leadership meets about
once a quarter.
Periodically, I get invited to that because transportation seems to come up a lot.
And those are good conversations where I think partnerships are being strengthened.
And I've seen a number of, you know, from crosswalks to pedestrian yield signs go up
that are done at that meeting.
It's, we can do this, we'll pay for this, or we'll pay for that, and I'm seeing some
things.
So I think, you know, it's why Stan is here tonight, as we start planning on what do things
look like in and around the campus, we can be partners in that so it's not just somebody
else's problem.
We're all in this together, and we want to be a part of that solution as well.
Well, I'm starting to see some synergy.
Good.
Glad to hear that.
Clay?
As you move parking out toward the perimeter, how will that impact disability access to
the interior of campus?
So that is an issue to take a look at.
I think in terms of where folks are ambulating or if they're ambulating, if it's a mobility
aid that's helping folks get around, I think we kind of need to take a look at where they're
at, where they're going.
Of course, the buildings are accessible.
We provide the buses which are all accessible to help you, you know, that would be the preferred
is you use the resource that's there.
Just depending on what that looks like, I think you have to look at other contingencies.
Do you look at a paratransit type solution for campus that's maybe for special needs
that, hey, here's the special needs lot?
And the reason, this is a good question, because most folks don't realize that when you look
at the regulations for accessible parking, that's on a general public kind of perspective,
but the university has a larger disproportionate amount of folks with special needs.
So there are more folks that need those services than are required.
So we have to take a look at if that's an issue.
So part of how we handle that is we have a transportation advisory committee meeting
that advises us.
That is represented.
We've got some folks from the faculty senate, staff senate.
We do work with the office of disability access, so if students are vocalizing some issues,
you know, DCTA, again, has been a great partner to come out and help us educate our students
on what resources are available to them.
So I think as we move further out, the plan is to backfill with transportation.
So that, yes, you're going further out, but we're going to get you some transportation
so that you can get in, and that's part of the plan.
You don't just go way out, and then there's nothing for you.
It's trying to put stuff out there where there is a transportation link, and that is accessible.
However, I think we need to take a look at individual areas of needs, and what does that
mean?
And there's pockets on campus that I think that kind of approach we need to take a look
at.
>> That's what I was just thinking of, because there are pockets that are over by my building.
>> And where are you at?
>> I'm in the auditorium building.
>> Okay.
>> And I know there are some pockets right over there that, you know, in my opinion,
they should remain and should remain handicapped parking, because as they are now, which it's,
you know, super helpful for anybody who needs that kind of proximity to that quadrant, at
least, of campus.
And I'm sure that's true in the other three quadrants of campus as well, that there are
little places where those things can remain.
>> We do.
We do.
But as we go forward today, again, we are, we want to begin this dialogue, so, and some
of this may focus our planning efforts in where we take a look at studies, what are
needs, and I need to hear from that whole community, so.
>> Anyone have anything else?
Any other questions?
We're getting cards just in case we have more.
>> Yeah, I got cards.
>> Yeah.
>> I got cards.
And again, that offer's there.
You don't want to come out to campus and see what's going on.
You'll be my guest.
I'll pay for your parking.
And I got 950 of them in the garage, so, you know, don't be shy.
Come on out.
I'll be happy to show you what's going on.
I think, you know, we have a lot of exciting things going on, some new residence halls.
All these things that have impacted parking are good things.
And I think sometimes we back up, you know, the tour center just opened.
I don't know if any of you have been there.
But I hear from current students, they say that building means nothing to me.
Yeah, but it will add value to your degree.
It will perpetuate.
And there's things that, you know, when I graduated, we won't say when, that, you know,
where I went to school, that it still adds value to this day.
So these are things that add value.
And it's been a rough probably four or five years with campus construction.
That is slowing.
We've got the Fouts project that should be wrapped up here in the next couple of months.
And we've got a retail dining establishment.
I think that's about it.
That's it for the big stuff.
So it's been going since about 2013, 2014.
So that's a good long stretch of turning a lot of dirt.
So I think we'll enter a phase where we can really stabilize some things and get to a
more normal, such that we can.
So yeah.
I also think you gave us some good information, some good talking points with the neighborhoods.
Yes.
Which we all know that can be loud.
Yes.
And I'm sensitive to that.
You gave us some good information to follow up with should we get any questions.
And I'm happy to entertain those folks.
Thank you for that information.
Yes.
You're welcome.
I'll leave these.
Please.
Decide to get a hold of me.
Don't be shy.
And I'm happy to come back and talk as needed.
So you know, this is, I hope it's more frequent than the last time, but we are a resource
for you.
So thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Is there anything else with that, Mark?
Sorry?
Did you want to say anything else about 1B?
Oh, concerning that one.
No.
Concerning that one, no.
Okay.
That moves us on to 1C, TSC 19-031, which is to receive a report and hold a discussion
about the scope and general purview of the Committee on Persons with Disabilities associated
with city transportation projects.
Thank you so much.
Mark Oliphant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the city, but I am also the staff liaison
to the fairly recently created City of Denton Committee on Persons with Disabilities.
Now, this was created to replace another committee that was in place from about 2007 to 2014.
And then for some reason, it kind of just went defunct.
Last fall, some activists came to the City Council and asked that it be reconstituted.
And so in late October of 2018, it was approved by the City Council.
And then we went to work finding representatives and so forth.
And we had our first meeting in February.
So we're about to come up on our six-month anniversary of that committee.
I think it's exciting.
It's been doing good things.
I just want to tell you a little bit about its purview, because I think there's a possibility
for some things to cross over between this committee and that one.
And I want you to be aware of that.
So just a little bit about it.
It will be the duty of that committee, this is from the ordinance, to advise in those
areas of committee interest, including but not limited to disability concerns such as
accessibility and accommodations for City projects and activities.
All recommendations shall be made by a majority vote.
Some specific projects may include construction of new sidewalks, ramps, and crosswalk features,
replacing and repairing existing sidewalks, ramps, and crosswalk features, the ADA transition
plan, planning and development of adaptive handicap accessible park facilities, guidance
on incorporating new signage in City facilities, improvement for new and existing facilities,
City operations, operations of other entities, and park and recreation adaptive activities.
So it's not just sticks and bricks or nuts and bolts.
This covers lots of different things for disabilities and accessibility.
And we have a website up that I just want to quickly show you.
Oh, I'll mention to you we meet on the third Thursday of every month at 6 p.m. typically
in this room.
Right now the bond committee is going on so we've had to move a little bit.
So just watch the City website.
We will announce there if you're interested in visiting with us.
So let's see.
Boards, commissions, and committees.
Okay.
So we have information about it.
Right now we have 11 spots and nine of which are filled.
We're helping to fill the other ones.
Here are our representatives.
This is the City Council member that nominated them.
And here are our members.
And then we've actually set up something else, kind of neat, a specific web page about this
committee with some additional information about disabled access, handicap access, Americans
with Disabilities Act.
So over here on the right we have some resources.
We have my name listed, so if anyone has questions they can reach out to me.
Here is our membership.
And then we also have listed out, the City actually has three people designated as ADA
coordinators for the City, depending on what sort of topic it has to do with.
And that is a requirement of the Americans with Disabilities Act, that there be a central
point of contact for that.
So that's just a quick overview of it.
We've had some great presentations so far.
DCTA has come, we've talked about the ongoing ADA transition plan, there's some other things.
Volunteering in the City is a topic we've talked about, because that's of interest.
The members of the committee really want to make sure that the volunteer opportunities
in the City are open to those who are on, you know, the spectrum of abilities, all different
sorts of residents of Denton.
So yeah, that is my brief explanation of that.
And I would be happy to entertain any questions that you might have.
Is there a central point when people are, you know, walking through the streets and
they see some place that is non-compliant, is there a central point where they can put
in this, you know, request for somebody to go take a look at compliance?
Uh-huh.
Well, in the EngageDenton app, actually.
Okay, that's what I was wondering.
I was just looking at it.
If you go in there, we have added an extra category, and that was actually the suggestion
of the committee.
Okay.
Good.
So we're taking actions already, things they've suggested.
Yeah, EngageDenton app.
All right.
Perfect.
Is there any chance that you might add additional material to the website?
Oh, yes.
Other than Department of Justice?
You know, this sort of thing is ongoing.
Yeah.
I mean, that was just our start of our website.
Yeah.
But all of those links go to DOJ.
Okay.
Do you have a, like, is there any certain website?
No, just a little more.
Just wondering.
Okay.
Absolutely.
We can, yeah.
Because there might be some that we might want to look at that have maybe a little bit
more user-friendly.
Okay.
Yeah.
So the Department of Justice website is, it's very business-oriented, but it is also, that
is the ultimate authority on the ADA, so we really like to refer back to that source.
But maybe I should write a letter to them and say, "Hey, let's get a little more lively
content on your website."
Anybody else have any questions, comments?
I have one.
Before you step down, I'd like to acknowledge Mark.
He was just certified as a League Cycling Instructor pursuant to your comment earlier
about device safety.
Great resource.
Go Mark.
As was Melissa in the same class.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
Okay.
That moves us to item number 1D, TSC 19-032, which is to receive a report, hold a discussion,
and on this one, make a recommendation to City Council to relocate the school zone on
Pocras Page Road for Pecan Creek Elementary.
Good afternoon.
I am Pamela Mutul, Traffic Engineer for the City of Denton.
And today, we wanted to bring up an existing school zone for Pecan Creek Elementary.
Currently, it is on Pocras Page near Waterlily Way, right here, and we are recommending to
relocate it east, closer to the elementary school, to Posto Boulevard.
This review and recommendation was initiated by the police department because they're
working on the crossing, they managed the crossing guard program, and they're planning
for the next school year.
So currently, they are wrapping up the development for these residential homes, just east of
existing homes, and part of that development, they've connected the sidewalk all the way
east to Posto on the north side of Pocras Page, and part of that construction, so it
goes up to here to Posto, just west, and they included a ramp right here.
So I worked with the city, and we included another ramp on the south to connect, to allow
connectivity to the south of Pocras Page.
So currently, it's under construction, and they started on the east side, and they're
working west, and after speaking with the project manager, this should be wrapped up
by the end of July, and that's why we are presenting this to you today, to receive feedback
on our recommendation to relocate the school zone.
So I have some images.
So currently, this is the school zone, it's 340 feet near Waterlily Way, and this is protecting
students crossing north-south on Pocras Page, and this is looking east.
So you have your beacon, you have your signage of school crossing nearby, you have this sign
for people going northbound on Waterlily, and this is looking west, you have your beacon
on your left side, and another sign saying that you're entering the school zone.
So in blue, you have your existing route, anyone living on the north, they walk on the
north side, they cross near Waterlily Way, and then continue their path along south portion
of Pocras Page all the way to the school.
So what we're proposing, since the sidewalk is going to tie into the existing, at this
point, is to encourage the students to continue the north path up to this point, cross south
on Pocras Page at Post Oak, and then continue their route to the school.
So what we're proposing is for the proposed school zone at Post Oak, from this crosswalk
to go 220 feet each direction, so a total of 440 feet, and so part of this, if the commission
recommends this take place, we would relocate all of the infrastructure, so the beacons,
all the signage.
We would install a crosswalk here on Pocras Page to connect the two ramps being installed,
and we would actually remove the previous crosswalk to not encourage students to cross
at an unprotected crosswalk during the school hours.
That's what I have for today, any questions?
What's the length of the current school zone?
It is 340 feet, so we'd be adding 100 feet.
Okay.
Is that average?
I haven't checked, but the police department mentioned this is the shortest school zone,
so it's not average.
It's actually on the lower end.
Why would we take the protected parking from the original, why would you do that?
Over time maybe, but right now everybody's so used to crossing there, so you want to
be protected on both ends, so that way, you know, if it's there, and they're still able
to use it, you know, it's just a matter of just extending it, leaving that sign there,
and then extending it, put your other sign at the other end.
So let me field that one.
Can you zoom out just a little bit?
Okay.
So the predominant movement from the neighborhoods on to Pocras Page is they come out and they
turn left, and so because that sidewalk is extended, ultimately we want the sidewalk
to extend to the school on both sides.
So they don't have to cross the road.
The logic in extending, well, since they are extending the sidewalk, the logic in moving
that school zone is that we put them, again, they're crossing against a lower and lower
volume.
The volume on Pocras Page gets lower and lower as you get to the school, because the road
kind of ends at the school.
So it's only school traffic.
They don't have to deal with the traffic coming out of any of these other neighborhoods, and
if we could, and I got here late, but if we could, we would probably push the crosswalk
to the other side of Post Oak, because people come out of Post Oak and turn left.
We're just trying to minimize the number of vehicles that the kids have to cross.
Keep them on the sidewalk as long as we can, and again, ultimately, they want to take them
all the way to the school, but keep them on the sidewalk and cross them against the fewest
number of vehicles.
That's why we're doing that.
Oh, okay.
I guess in my head I was thinking, kids live there for so long, they're so used to walking
out with their friends, they're so used to walking out with this friend, it's a top-of-the-top
turnoff point.
You turn here, then we cross here, then we go home.
We're going to push for this too, if it's approved and adopted.
We will push for it to start before the fall semester, or before the school year starts,
but if we cannot, then we'll have that discussion.
If we want to wait for the Christmas break and transition then, we definitely don't want
to confuse the students when they start the school year.
When I got out of school, it was one way.
Then they're going back to school, and then they always say, "Oh, we cross here."
Then everybody that's riding down the street has always said, "We slow down here," because
I know exactly what this road is.
We'll work with the school for some public outreach, so they'll send it over home with
the kids and the parents, and they'll have contact if they're like the schools I'm used
to.
We work with the parents prior to the first day of school.
They know who they are.
If we move before school starts, we'll do that public outreach campaign, or if we have
to wait until school is in session, we may not have to wait until Christmas, but that
gives us even more of an opportunity to tell the students that, "Hey, we're making a change."
Stay on your side of the street until you get to the school zone.
This zone does have a crossing guard, so that again helps a lot.
Keep walking until you see the guard that you've always walked to, and she'll get you
or he'll get you across the street.
Part of it is a learning curve, but I think we're moving in the right direction, and we
want to take advantage of that sidewalk and move those kids to crossing the least number
of vehicles that they can.
Currently, there's a crossing guard here at Water Lily, and there's one at Postoak, and
I did confirm with PD, and they will keep the one on Postoak, so there will be two crossing
guards.
They mentioned how during pickup, the car pull does extend past Postoak, so this crossing
guard will be assisting the students cross and making sure it's safe.
What is preventing continuation of the sidewalk, and when might that be resolved?
From my understanding, it's the development.
There are limits of construction, and so there are plans to eventually widen Postoak and
connect to the north, but we currently are not aware of a timeline, and I believe there's
some drainage issues in this area, from my understanding.
Denton seems to like to build sidewalks that end.
Yes.
Let me respond to that.
Typically we'll wait until development occurs on vacant property, and they will construct
the sidewalk as required by ordinance.
We have a sidewalk program, and we're about to embark, well, we're going to begin to develop
our safe route to school program in full force, so that we can identify using those sidewalk
bond funds to target areas like this.
You can see there's some existing single family or residential towards the east.
That sidewalk just isn't going to be built until a roadway is reconstructed, so we may
come in as a city and say we're going to extend this.
These are the kind of projects that we're looking for as part of the safe route to school
or even as part of the sidewalk bond program.
There's funding available.
There's more funding being talked about.
Todd Estes is putting together a bond package for this fall, and the numbers I've seen
are 10 to 12 million for sidewalks, so we'll have a little bit deeper pocket to target
areas like this, either around schools or other facilities that have either a high pedestrian
volume or high potential for pedestrian volume, and these infill pieces, we can accomplish.
Jeff.
What's the speed limit on that road?
I believe it's 30.
I checked that, and I believe it's 30 miles an hour.
Any other questions?
Okay.
Our job is to make a recommendation to city council to go with staff suggestion regarding
this crosswalk or this school zone.
I move that we go with staff suggestion.
I second that.
A motion for approval and a second.
Everyone in favor?
Aye.
Opposed?
Excellent.
And we'll be moving that on to council then.
Thank you.
Okay.
That brings us to item 1E, TSC 19-033, which is to receive report hold discussion regarding
Article 3 of the city code, which governs boards, commissions, and committees, and vote
on the absence report code for Daniel Krutka.
Do we have backup?
Because I don't have my backup with me.
I will find you for you, I promise.
And here, do you want the article?
It didn't do it, did it?
Okay, so what we need to do today is to take a look at the ordinance, what do we call that,
Article 3, that discusses the number of allowable absences for a member on boards and commissions.
And so, if you had a chance, take a look at where is the number of, okay, there we go.
So on this one, under, you know, quorum is obvious, and voting required, no attending
member of the board shall be excused or shall abstain for voting, on which a vote is called
or required, and is it under C, number of absences, there we go.
So unexcused absence of any board, commission, or committee member of more than three regularly
called and scheduled meetings of the board's commission or committee, of which he or she
is a member in any one year or lack of attendance at 50% of the number of regular meetings should
be considered cause for removal by the city council from such board, commission, or committee.
There are excused absences, of course, and those are all delineated through here, but
the absence report here, exhibit number 3, let's see, hmm, I don't know, there we go.
We have, so it's, there we go, we have Dan Kretka's absences.
Do we have a number of accrued absences?
Okay, since we've started counting, okay, this is, okay, okay, okay, so I guess my question
is are we going to consider tonight an absence?
Okay, so this is a whole new thing for us, to need to look at a member's absences and
decide whether effectively they are excused or unexcused, really, am I right?
And so, you know, Dan sent a note that he was, of course, going to be missing June and
July because of traveling, and there it is.
So our question will be, while we're, if we're now going to start, and this will be something
apparently moving forward, that we will be more, you know, careful about counting absences,
making certain that people who have made the commitment to serve on the board and commission
are serving on the board and commission unless there are, you know, reasons that are unavoidable
for, you know, the person to miss.
And so this is the first time that we're looking at this, as whether we will, as a group, excuse
Vice Chair Krittka's absences for June and for July, or whether we will begin to count
these two absences as counting against him in his three absences.
Now at three absences, his appointing City Council member can remove him and appoint
somebody else.
Have I got that right?
I'm looking at Trey because these are illegal.
True.
It's something that you as the Chair can put to the board under the way it's written.
It doesn't necessarily have to go to the board.
Test.
So effectively under the rules as their state is that the, I think it's quarterly, an attendance
report has to go to the City Secretary and three or more unexcused absences will be shown
as cause to be removed from the board at that time.
So yeah.
So when we say that I can put it to the board, that's something that we can collectively
put forward.
Legally that would be okay that your decision, the way the code is written is that just the
Chair decides if the absence is excused or not.
So you as the Chair can either make the call or you can put it to the board to make the
call.
Okay.
Got it.
Thank you.
It's always good to have legal.
Okay.
Let me just, I'm just going to say right away that I'm not comfortable making that decision.
If I had stepped into this role knowing that this was going to be a decision that I would
potentially be making in the future, yes, I can make that decision.
But because this is just a new adherence to protocol that we're looking at, I am happier
to entertain a discussion from us.
All of you.
Okay.
We all have questions.
Okay.
Yeah.
We're all going to be either reappointed or go off next month.
Yes.
So why are we talking about this now?
He may not be here next month or the clock starts again.
True.
You're right.
I believe that what we do need to do tonight is to establish this protocol moving forward.
And so since we're at that tipping, that point at which we're looking at two absences
by a continuing, a current member of the commission, we're going to start, we're going to start
now and then, yes, should he be reappointed for a next two-year term, the clock will start
again for him.
But the protocol will then be in place and we won't have me up here saying, "I don't
know nothing about this."
Well, but he does this every summer.
The rule wasn't there.
Well, the rule has always been there.
We haven't adhered.
Oh.
Not just us.
Here's bureaucracy.
There's been a lack of adherence.
But this would be something that we may want to consider.
We may want to put out there to our friends and people we may recommend in the future
that attendance is expected, that attendance is mandatory.
And if you know that you are going to be gone for more than three, you know, three times
per term that you reconsider.
Is that three excused and unexcused or just unexcused?
Unexcused.
It does appear to be precedent set for excused.
You know, some things are unavoidable.
Jeff?
Yeah, I was going to ask, as you were clicking through there, I only saw the criteria briefly
as far as what is actually excused, whether it's adhered to or not.
There we go.
As far as the correct -- yeah, exactly.
And I just ask because I give an example.
Like I had an absence a while back.
It's been quite a while.
Like my daughter was getting -- I mean, I'm sorry, I had a grandson born that same day.
And I was up at the hospital till 6 a.m. throughout the evening, et cetera, till 6 a.m. in the
morning.
I mean, I'm not seeing that under excused, and for me, that would be pretty significant.
Right.
And I think that that would loosely fall under illness despite the fact that childbirth is
not an illness.
But I think under a -- under the scrutiny of our commission, I believe you get a pass
on that.
Okay.
I mean, what's -- where is he?
Why is he absent?
Is it way out of that criteria?
I mean, I don't know the reason why he's gone.
Well, yeah.
So the excused absence is being personal or family illness or illness, death of a family
member, jury duty, service in the armed forces, testifying before the legislator attending
a seminar involving municipal matters.
He alludes in his letter that he will be at conferences potentially that will be related
to his profession, not to municipal.
So in a case in which he were attending a conference that dealt explicitly with traffic
safety issues, that's an excused absence.
When you are off presenting in your particular field, that's not an excused absence.
But would that be considered as work-related since it's on there?
If you go back and says excuse for business or employment, that's an excusable absence
if it's for business or your employment.
If he's working and he's absent because he has to go to these different places to present
something, it is work, then that should be an excused absence.
That's true.
We also, and again, we would have to decide how stringently we want to apply evidence.
When I go to a conference, I have to bring back my agenda.
I bring back my receipts.
I bring back -- I don't get excused from, you know, my job when I just say I'm going
to be somewhere.
If that's the case, then why don't we say we will excuse you if you can show just cause
that you was doing this because of your work, but if you, you know, then you're covering
both bases.
You can be excused if you were doing it for your work, but if you were just out doing
it because you wanted to be gone for that month and a half, then that's an unexcused.
Right.
Yeah, and I honestly don't know how big of a precedent we're setting with anything that
we may work on tonight, but this would be a precedent for us in the time that I have
been on the committee.
And so just due to, you know, that is something since we've got new terms coming up either
because of newly appointed members or because you are being reappointed, August, September
would be a time that we do establish that protocol going forward.
And so I don't know if that's something that we would fine tune for us and say if you're
going to be gone, bring us the agenda that says you were presenting or that you were
in this case.
I don't know.
Melissa, what were you going to say?
I got my question answered.
Okay.
With all the conversation.
Yeah.
It makes us all uneasy.
I get it.
Yeah.
We're going to set the precedent either way we go.
Right.
Because we've really not discussed excessive absences in the past.
So, Jeff?
I was just saying it seems so subjective.
I mean, I want to take a look at that like Kevin was mentioning.
I mean, for example, my example is, you know, is that my grandson's birth.
I mean, are you going to make me bring a birth certificate?
I mean, it sounds kind of ridiculous but how far is it going to go?
Right.
But also this applies when you are the -- it potentially applies at three absences.
Three unexcused absences.
Which that does mean that over the course of two terms, we generally, you know, only
have -- we have usually 10 to 11 meetings per year.
So by the time you're missing, you know, three, you're, you know, close to a sixth of the
abs -- of the year.
Unexcused.
You know.
Yeah.
Of unexcused.
And so, you know, I believe that there's -- this is vague enough.
So there's some latitude in there, you know, dealing, like I said, with illness.
But that's unexcused.
It does mean you could be a no call, no show or just not come.
But you know, it's a lot of -- we all have good reasons why we can't make it.
And -- but it's the, I'm not going to make it, I think is the problem, maybe.
I don't know.
Is that three a year or is that three per two-year term?
Year.
I'm sorry.
One year.
Oh, one year.
Okay.
So by the time you miss three in a year, then you've got -- you've missed a potentially
a third, almost a third of the meetings.
And then I don't know whether, you know, the -- I was going to put another layer on here,
but I'm not going to.
Forget it.
Never mind.
But when your vice chair maybe -- it weighs in a little heavier on you, but I'm not sure.
I guess I always look at the human side of things, and the human side of things is things
come up, people have prior commitments, we committed to this, but in our day-to-day lives,
things can come up to where --
Absolutely.
-- you see, out of our control, or it's a special occasion, you know, I got a daughter,
I don't know if she's going to get married next month, so I can't tell you that, you
know what I mean?
Right.
Because, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, I guess I wouldn't feel comfortable
with telling him he can't be there anymore, because when I look at the email, he said,
"I will be gone for this amount of time."
So it wasn't like he didn't -- all of a sudden, May came, you don't hear from him.
Right.
June came, you don't hear from him.
And now here we is, July, we don't hear from him, you know, back whenever he wrote it,
he said, "I will be gone for this amount of time."
Right.
You know what I mean?
So the human side of it is that him knowing that he took this commitment, like I said,
it could be his job, his career, may want to go be in prison, I don't know, you know
what I mean?
But he let us know that he would be gone from this day to this day.
And if I had to make a decision, I would say, "Hey, when he comes back on July the 15th,
maybe we can address him and say, 'Hey, you know,'" you know, then we tell him if we're
going to start really just implying everything that it says, well, then let's tell him, but
the next time he do it, then it's -- that's just me being on the human side of things.
Yeah, no, I see your point.
I definitely see your point, that we do -- I think we might feel -- I know I feel a little
bit retroactive, you know, like, oh, we haven't been counting your absences, but now we're
going to, and there could be censure tied to it.
I think that this, again, this is -- this will set our precedent going forward.
I'm rolling off in August, by the way, so this sets your precedent moving forward.
Something though, because I'm rolling off, I do want to say that one thing to think about
is that -- that historically, he's gone -- he's gone -- you know, Vice Chair Krutka is going
to be gone every summer, so you have to think about that.
And will you -- will that then hinder when you have somebody who is guaranteed to be
gone every summer and potentially gone every December, will that hinder the work of the
committee?
And that means that the onus is going to always be on the remaining members to make sure that
you got that fourth person here, even in times when grandchildren are being born, people
are getting sick, and people have surgery.
I mean, that's something that you -- we have to consider, is that what kind of a responsibility
does that put on everybody else when somebody is guaranteed to be gone at a window at a
time when other people might want to be gone, too?
So, Jim, what were you going to say?
Well, I'm just going to -- for the councilor hiding in the corner, can we table the -- can
we table the vote?
Is that allowed?
Yes.
I'll walk up to the microphone.
Yes, procedurally, you can -- you can postpone this to the next meeting or an event certain
in the future.
Well, the event certain would be when we see who's going to be here on the next two years
with all the new appointments.
Okay.
Or reappointments.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Can we -- do we have consensus on this?
To hold off on saying yesterday until we know for sure who's going to be here?
I would like to bifurcate that decision and make a decision -- can I just pin you in right
there?
Pin me?
I'd like to bifurcate that and not -- you know, table the discussion on what we would
like to do with Vice Chair Krutka's situation.
But I think that next meeting, we should then establish our protocol going forward.
Well, by then, we'll know who's coming back.
In August?
Are the appointments made by August -- August 5th is when we meet again.
Well, people are going to get reappointed or go off in August.
That's more --
They'll know whether they're --
Middle of August.
The council's not always very fast on the gun on that.
Right.
I think, yes, we should wait until Vice Chair Krutka comes back and to talk about what -- him.
I think he needs the ability to defend himself.
Yes.
Due process.
Right.
And then I think tied to that discussion, I think we should discuss our protocol and
what we want to do about -- you know, again, like I said, a big thing is that when somebody
on any commission is guaranteed to be gone, then it is a bigger responsibility on everybody
else to be there to contribute.
And if somebody's not contributing -- I mean, really, this is the heart of the absence issue
is that we have -- when we have a member who doesn't contribute, you know, on a number
of occasions, then that voice is gone.
Becky?
I understand the precedent for the whole commission.
However, the report is due to the city secretary for a report to council quarterly.
So the absence for June has to be reported.
Okay.
In some fashion.
Okay.
And the absence -- Can you say an undetermined absence?
Absence of undetermined -- I can try.
So the question is, you know, was he -- is he away for work?
Is that -- that's the question we have.
Is it not?
I mean, because if he's away from work, then by -- what we've all read is that if he's
away from work, it's an excused absence, and we can't tell somebody that they wasn't working.
Well, we can, because we can ask for documentation, you know, if he is -- since he works at the
university, we could ask him for documentation of attending a, you know, a conference -- presenting
at a conference.
So there's a lot of ways to document.
And I guess that goes back to saying that if he says that he was and he presents that,
then it goes as, you know what I mean?
But right now, we can't say that he wasn't working because he's not here.
We haven't given him an opportunity to present it.
You understand what I'm saying?
It's like trial and fire.
So we have to go by what's written, if he's away for a conference, and we say it's for
work, then we have to let that be work until he proves, you know -- I mean --
>> Innocent of proving guilty.
>> Yeah.
>> You get it?
>> You know what I mean?
And so it's one of those things that right now I would say, because I don't know, I would
have to say that conference, work.
So I would say he was at work, so to me, it's an excused absence because it's work related.
>> Okay.
Okay.
I've got some traveling going on there, but Becky, what are you going to say?
>> I've been tasked to simply ask, why were you absent?
I don't need the detail.
I don't have the privilege of asking for specific details.
So that's why the answer that was provided was presented to the commission.
So if it's not my purview to say, were you on vacation or was it work?
I have to present whatever the answer was.
So I don't need to know that you were dying in the hospital because X.
I don't need that.
I was in the emergency room or I had a family emergency or I was called away for work.
Just basic answers will be the only thing that I ask for as the recorder for the commission.
So I presented the response that I got specifically from Daniel for your consideration.
But the attendance reports are due quarterly and the end of the quarter is June.
Understanding that this is new, it may not have been new for the commission.
It just has not been done.
Not only for this commission, but for other boards and committees.
There were other business units that were lax in their response or the communication
about the requirement was not well communicated.
And I personally could be at fault because I was new to this commission and learning
and the handoff or the transition of the staff member before me was not 100%.
So it's been a learning curve for all of us, whether the requirement was there previously
or not.
We were tasked as staff liaisons to distribute the Article III.
That's the reason Todd Estes presented it for your review at the last meeting.
Although Daniel wasn't here, it was in the body of information that was shared with him
as well.
And this was the response that I received to be shared.
So I can't explain whether it is or is not for work, but that was the answer that I received.
So just trying to stay within the guidelines of these new or more enforced requirements
that are due to council.
But I had to go back, just so you'll all know, I had to go back all the way to 2018 and report
present or absent with no reason, just present or absent, all the way from the end of 2017
through the present, even though I wasn't associated with the commission.
I had to go off of the meeting minutes.
And Patrice can attest to this too.
I had to go back and ask her to sign all of the minutes that were approved or approved
with correction as part of this getting back on task.
So that's my only request tonight is either I either need a statement or a recommendation
from the commission to be included with the attendance report, to be tabled for the president
going forward by this commission.
So July can be separated out.
It can be, you know, you can make that a separate discussion when Daniel returns in August.
So you're saying we can decide on excused or excused for June, and then we can deal
with July next month?
Correct.
Okay.
Awesome.
Thank you.
What is your deadline to report?
It's quarterly and the end of the quarter is June.
So it's now.
So last month's absence is due, when this meeting is over, I have the requirement to
turn in the attendance roster.
Okay.
Well, he did tell us at his last attending that he was going to be absent and he has
been a very engaged member.
I would agree with that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I think we could -- I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and call
it a working absence.
Okay.
Is that a motion?
For June, yeah.
And then we can talk about July later.
Okay.
So do we have consensus that June is excused due to work-related responsibilities?
Okay.
We always got to be careful about what kind of precedent we set, though, because he may
roll off.
Like I said, I'm rolling off.
You don't know who you're going to get next.
Can I ask a question?
So I mean, obviously -- I'm unaware of the process of how you're appointed chairman and
vice chairman.
And so --
You vote on us.
The board does?
Yeah.
So if I'm gone and he's gone, then who picks up the slack?
Well, I mean, once we get the new appointments, you'll pick a new chair and vice chair for
the following year.
If both of them happen to be absent during a meeting, then the first order of business
for that meeting will be to pick a temporary chair that will last the length of that single
meeting.
Thank you.
Okay.
So what I'm hearing is that we have a consensus that June 4 vice chair, Krutka, can be excused
due to a work-related absence.
We'll deal with July and August, and we can discuss then -- because like I said, I'm rolling
off, but I'm serious about that if -- we are -- and I always agree that, you know, we need
to be, you know, on protocol, keeping our records like they are supposed to be kept.
But we should make some decisions about how we want to -- how our commission, your commission
going forward will then handle that type of extended absence, you know, particularly in
a time when a lot of other people may also want to be absent and that it does -- it does
put more of a burden on everybody else to make sure that their butts are here when somebody
else is guaranteed to be gone.
Okay.
Carry on.
Thank you.
Happy to help.
All right.
Now, back in my seat, that brings us to item 1F, which is TSC 19-034, our staff reports.
Ha!
That's exactly what I want to look at.
Thanks.
Is it?
No.
Okay.
So, here's your -- here's your street construction report.
I am not really able to field questions.
I have some, actually, as I'm going through this, and most of these are shown as -- should
be complete.
So, if this is the latest, I'm curious.
But if you have questions and would like information next month on any of these projects, let me
know now, but I really -- I'm too new.
I don't have any depth of history on any of these projects and all I can do is read the
same as you can.
So, if you have questions seriously on any of these for next time, let me know and we
can put that together.
You missed the deadline on EGLE, Carol, and I take personal responsibility for that.
Get out there and stripe it.
Okay.
So, this is -- as far as I'm concerned, the best I can do is this is an informational
item for this meeting.
We'll become more interactive as I get a little bit further along and get some history behind
me.
If I know what projects you're really concerned about or what your hot buttons are, just let
me know and we can have a much more in-depth discussion on status and estimated completion
and the tasks that are underway.
I just have one question.
Okay.
Is all the construction done on TV and balance or on that four-way site, is it going to be
any more?
There's always a chance for more.
So, again, I don't -- I know that's wrapping up, but I don't have an estimated completion
date for you.
I know we're doing some striping out there, so I know we've done some signage change
and we're doing some -- might even be doing some signal modifications, but I don't know
an estimated end date.
When is EGLE going to open up?
They're getting pretty close, aren't they?
Yeah, and I don't know.
I'm serious.
I just -- I have --
I didn't know if it was on.
I almost know.
But I -- this is where -- I mean, you guys have my email.
If not, I can give you my cards.
If you have a question, we can certainly answer those questions outside of this purview.
Okay.
Next month.
Yes.
Or next -- tomorrow.
Or next week.
I mean, there's -- we don't have to wait a month.
I mean, if you have specific questions on any of these that are on this list, let me
know and we'll get you some feedback.
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
Do you have -- yeah, Matrix.
That's our favorite, you know.
So some of these are very old, and we talked about the August meeting.
Any of these items of interest to be brought forward?
We've got a couple on there that are marked for a maybe removal, but these all predate
me.
Oh, the maybes.
I'll have to wait until Daniel's back next week or next month since they're all his.
And you have this electronically, if there are items on this list, on this Matrix, that
you'd like to see fleshed out in August, let us know.
We've got a couple of things that are already queued up, but -- so we would recommend or
we would request an August meeting if you were considering not having one.
We could probably fill an agenda, but we could include any of these topics in there that
you might want to discuss at greater length.
And actually, I think number one and seven are the same -- they're the same issue.
Station motors and Hercules muffler, those are the same -- that's the same location.
McKinney Locust and Elm just north of McKinney.
And so I would respond, that's an enforcement issue?
Yeah.
If they're blocking the sidewalk, that's against state statute, not even local statute.
So that's an easy enforcement issue.
Yeah.
Clay, number two, did we ever get number two yet?
We have not gotten what I consider satisfactory on that, because I was wanting to drill down
to what is our percentages of pedestrian accidents, bicycle accidents, motor vehicle accidents,
so that we can maybe address some of these things.
Because I'm a little concerned because I know bicycle accidents get a lot of press, but
pedestrian accidents I think actually outnumber bicycle accidents.
They do.
Yeah.
Is that right, Mark?
They do regionally, and I believe they do locally as well.
So we can get information from the cog, as well as PD, and bring that forward.
We can -- how far back do you want to go, and do you want to see trend lines?
They're actually trending upward?
Well, just in the last year.
Yeah.
That works.
Okay.
So item number two, we'll bring that forward in August.
Okay.
All right.
Anything else?
Let us know.
We'll be putting the agenda.
One of our initiatives is to get this thing out a little sooner, so we have time to -- well,
it's for us.
So we have time, and we're not hustling at the last minute to try and get all our agenda
items Wednesday before the week.
So we're probably going to try and finalize this agenda at least a week prior to -- maybe
two weeks prior to the meeting, so -- which puts us two weeks out.
So just -- we're going to try and give you a little bit more lead time with the packet
in your hand and published agenda, so we're not, again, trying to squeeze something in
the last minute.
Nice.
Will you scroll a little bit?
There we go.
Thank you.
Number nine, I think, will be a topic in August, because I think we'll have some citizen comment
on that.
Yeah.
And number 12, mine, if we can find out where we are on that, because we're wanting -- what
I asked was for some demonstration projects for protected bike lanes, and we were looking
at Highland and Hinkle, wasn't it?
I was suggesting Hinkle.
Yeah.
And I know that Hinkle's down to dirt now.
Okay.
So we can have a -- you want a status update in August, just to -- here's --
In the traffic flow, because they were talking about putting some on-street parking on Hinkle
to that new development.
So they weren't keeping the bike lane, because they had a bike lane?
I think they were keeping the bike lane, but they were going to have some more parking
there.
Yeah.
You might want to -- if they vote dead bond, to include an update of what they voted.
They vote the sidewalks and the bike lanes and all that.
I believe it won't be until November.
No, no, not the election, but the bond committee says they're willing to put on a ballot.
We can bring forward to you what the current package is at that time.
Right.
What their proposal is.
Certainly.
Excellent.
I don't know if -- but you know the road that goes right in front of DCTA, like, where the
buses turn?
Right.
So, lately, because I ride the bus, I drive whichever one, lately it's been a lot of just
willy-nilly cars going there.
Is there anything that we can do, bigger size or whatever.
I'm talking about they come through there like it's -- like it's just a regular street.
You know what I mean?
And, you know, people that ride the bus so used to walking around, just walking across
the street.
But, you know, now you have like today, I think about nine of them went that way, you
know.
They just turn and just go.
Okay.
You mean at the DDTC?
Yeah.
Downtown.
Where the buses go in that, that road right there, you know, where the buses are traveling
at.
Right.
I see a lot of people, they come and they turn.
They go down and they turn and go back over the track, you know.
And so I don't know if they can't see the -- if it's a one-way side or --
Yeah.
We can look at some --
You know what I mean?
Let us review what's out there and we'll bring -- if we can formulate a solution or an enhancement,
we'll bring that to you.
Yeah, I just -- you know, it was just something -- because some days I do ride the bus and
I noticed today that when I was there, it was like, shh, shh, shh, shh.
Okay.
You know, it's like, you know, then I walked to the other side, I said, well, maybe a bigger
sign or something.
I don't know.
But, you know, it's becoming more of a --
More common?
Yeah, more common.
Okay.
We can look at that.
My number 11 there, with hot signals from pedestrian crossings on Carroll, Carroll doesn't
intersect easily.
So I remember bringing it, and I was looking at Carroll, and there are a number -- there
are long stretches of Carroll Boulevard where there is no place for pedestrians to cross.
Okay.
Or, you know, at maybe Crescent or Cordell, they can cross, but if they're heading -- want
to get anywhere to the south, they have to get all the way up to Congress before they
could cross, either -- going either way, if they want to go west or they want to go east.
So that was what I was looking for there.
Are there any ways to incorporate some pedestrian crossing so that people don't have to walk,
you know, whatever that stretch is?
Right.
You know, from Hawk, the pedestrian hybrid beacon, it's basically a traffic signal that's
pedestrian activated.
It's a tool that I've used elsewhere successfully, and it's a great tool.
It's better than -- you're familiar with the RRFBs, like we've got out in front of City
Hall here.
Those are great, but they're not tied to any of the traffic signals, so the pedestrian
hybrid beacon, we can actually program.
So the pedestrian pushes the button, and the signal won't actually activate until it's
reached the proper sequence or point in the signal sequence from either side.
So if you're in the middle between two signals, we're not going to let you start crossing
right after the signal has unloaded all these cars and dumped them on the street, headed
northbound or southbound, and so they start, then they have to stop again.
So that's one of the reasons why we like to use the Hawk or the pedestrian hybrid beacon,
because we can actually coordinate that.
The pedestrian still gets a protective phase, but they get it at a time when they're least
disruptive to everything else that's going on on the street.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
That sounds great.
So that's a tool that we can certainly look at.
We can -- we'll take a -- is it just Carol, or are there other --
Carol is what I noticed, that people walk up -- because it's becoming a significantly
more pedestrian-traveled area, and so Carol -- yes, Congress, people can cross there,
but then, you know, people are on Egan, on Panhandle, on -- oh, I forgot -- you know,
all the streets that go, you know, head on to the north, and if there were --
So let me qualify.
The pedestrian hybrid beacon really works best as a mid-block.
So normally we want to deter mid-block crossings, but because it's only a two-way signal, not
a four-way signal, we want to -- you can -- I've seen four-way signal designs, but it really
works better if it's mid-block, they get to a point, and they're only stopping the traffic
-- it's cleaner.
They don't have to worry about side street traffic coming in and turning, and not seeing
a beacon or missing the beacon.
So the mid-block crossing might not be right at the intersection you're thinking of, but
we can put it close.
Somewhere nearby.
Yeah.
Well, then we'll add another layer of problem there, because there are not sidewalks on
the west side of Carroll Boulevard.
And so we probably would want to rethink a hybrid beacon, the hawk, at a place where
we don't have sidewalks.
Or we can incorporate the sidewalk extension as part of that project, but we wouldn't want
to dump them to somewhere, because everything we do, we have to make accessible.
And we probably would want to think about where we put it, and assuming that we selected
a location, we may want to select -- part of that criteria is that we've got sidewalks
and we'll do one, and if this is successful, then we can propagate the use of the pedestrian
hybrid beacon, but we know we need to extend sidewalks.
So a better application for that than on Carroll Boulevard could be farther to the south, because,
again, once you leave the Sycamore area heading south, then, again, there are no protected
crosswalks until you get to Eagle.
And so there are sidewalks there on both sides of Carroll Boulevard.
So if we're looking near the market, and there's another -- there are office buildings, there's
a little strip shopping center, there are apartments, but even all the way through there,
there are no places for people to cross safely.
So --
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
And that's exactly --
So that would be a good place to give that a shot.
Now, of course, my wish list would be, then, that there would be sidewalks on both sides
of Carroll Boulevard over on the north side.
And there will be.
Okay.
Someday.
Okay.
But that's another project.
And if the bond proposal that I've seen is successful, then we'll have a lot more resource
to throw at the pedestrian element.
Okay.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Were you thinking of Teasley between Hobson and 35?
I don't know, because I spend all my time that way.
Yeah.
But then also --
Because those are the only good crossing points I can think of, and 35 and Teasley is kind
of scary.
Right.
I'm going to cut in.
We're going a little deep for --
Sorry, Trey.
-- hosting.
Sorry.
Okay.
I tried to let go a little bit, but --
We can't help it.
So, Trey, that begs my next question.
Can we discuss the email that I sent you this morning?
Oh, yeah.
We can discuss that.
Okay.
So if you remember, the last meeting, we had a no parking request on a tiny little piece
of curb.
Yes.
And everyone was like, "Well, that's already in the ordinance.
Why is it here?"
So this is kind of an FYI.
If a traffic control device is already authorized by city code, we're probably not going to
bring those to you.
In fact, we're not going to bring those to you unless there are extenuating circumstances
that make it really, really unique.
So we've got some situations where the ordinance already says you have to leave ten feet of
travel way in both directions, and if there's no way you can do that and allow on-street
parking, we're going to restrict the parking.
So it's kind of an FYI.
We were all talking about it last time, and it was like, "It's already there.
We don't have to do this.
Do we really have to take action?"
And the answer is no, you don't, and we probably won't bring those items to you.
We can bring you an informational item that here's what we did since the last meeting,
and these were all authorized.
All these devices were authorized by the current code just to keep you up to speed on what
we're doing, but we're not going to go through the request because it doesn't have to go
to council.
Council has already authorized it.
I think we would like to be updated, again, because people will ask us, and then we have
the opportunity to say, "This is why, and this is the way it ought to be."
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's all I have as far as the staff reports.
Okay.
Anybody have anything to add to the matrix?
Okay.
All right.
We're done with you.
All right, and with that, unless anybody has anything else that you just have to say, Jim,
we will adjourn at 738 p.m.