All right we're going to go ahead and get started today. Welcome to the Sustainability
Framework Advisory Committee. It is Friday, February 23rd, 2024 at one o'clock. We are in the
City Council Work Session Room and we do have a quorum. So we will go ahead and get started with
our first item for individual consideration. Consider approval of the January 26, 2024 minutes.
Did anybody have a chance to read those? Go over. Any comments? Adam? I was just going to move to
approve. All right. Grant second. All in favor? Aye. All right. We'll move on to item B. Receive
a report and hold a discussion about current building codes and any upcoming changes.
And we have Emily from Building Inspections and Permits and she's going to talk to you about the
code. I did include a presentation she had given previously just to give you some background
information on it, but she can more tell you the code that we have currently and then what's on the
horizon. Okay and just for any questions you may have. Okay just sort of reminder we're using the
mics above us. Okay so speak. Thank you. Sure. So June 2022 we adopted the 2021 International
Building Codes to include the International Energy Code and the 2024 has just been published so we're
taking a look at that. That's probably what we'll be doing in the next couple of months and then
look to adopt probably January. That's the 2024 International Energy Code along with the Building
Codes including Fire Code and then also the 2023 National Electrical Code. Okay and if you had any
specific slides that you had a question about in the backup we do have that we can pull up if you'd
like to see it. Committee would you like to have her pull up the. Yeah if you could go ahead and pull
that presentation up please so that if you just click on people watching then we can see what we're
going to have to scroll. Click the two the expander arrow in the upper right. Click that. Now you just use your arrows and go page to page. So this is our presentation from that time. It kind of shows you all the code books that we
adopted. We did adopt all the COG amendments for the energy code and then some minimal amendments
from all the other international codes. We try to you know stick with what everybody else is doing
in the area so that our builders are all on board. And did the 2024 code did it get a lot stricter
than the 2021? I haven't looked at the energy code. I haven't looked at that one yet. The only ones I got
like in paper is the pool code and the fire code so far. Yeah I just wondered if there were any specific
codes in our own ordinances rather than the international
energy code dealing with green construction practices. There is not right now. There's not?
Okay. There's always options to do that and then there's also
I believe it's in the appendix of the international code and then if you wanted to
do green building you can also you know do that. That's definitely going to meet our minimum
building codes but it's again an option. I noticed that the 2022 criteria manuals a solid waste
stormwater and transportation and wastewater water and wastewater were all revised in 2022
but the construction criteria manual we're still if I read it right we're still operating
under a February 2002 version. Right and to kind of speak to that somebody is supposed to be working
on that and most that construction code is mostly geared toward public works construction and then
building has a little you know a little bit of some blurbs in there it's not this is really our
our construction code here. So is there some reason why that hasn't been brought up to date like
these other criteria manuals? Not that I'm aware of. Because I could see if it's public works we
could actually have green codes in that as well. Possibly. I would assume like putting solar panels
over city facilities and that sort of thing. I'm just curious as to how deep this is going. Sure.
Yeah. Good? Yeah I'm good. Adam? Good night. Thank you for coming. First of all I think I put this
item on our matrix but I think we're all we all recognize the importance of what you all are doing
and so I want to just step back you know anywhere you turn in this town you see construction
building going on right and I think people are curious how the standards are set for that. What
are the codes? I hear you saying basically there's an international body of some sort that establishes
building codes and we pretty much just comply with that. That's correct. Okay now we're particularly
interested in sustainability. Right. And I guess you know our I guess I don't want to speak for the
committee but it seems like our goal is something like green growth. Like growth is happening.
That's going to happen at least for the foreseeable future. Our remit is try to figure out how to make
it as sustainable or as green as possible. Right. Okay now that's to me the big context. Okay well
and I can kind of speak to that. Okay. There is there are some groups in the area that are
working on some sustainability practices and getting
information together to present to city councils around around the state so that we can you know
implement more sustainability measures for our city. So that is in place it's of course it's
federally funded so it's a little bit of a slow go but we're definitely getting closer to that.
Okay and this piggybacks I think the line of questioning that Ed had opened up which is
how much discretion do we have as a city to go above and beyond what are stipulated in these
codes because we have and I believe council has has put their seal of approval on it's a pretty
ambitious environmental rules. Now you mentioned trying to stay basically in line with other
municipalities in the area. Right there's a schedule for increasing you know the
I don't exactly how to explain it but increasing the insulation and you know all the different
measures that make a house or buildings more sustainable or energy efficient. So every year
and a half or two years those numbers go down to make it closer to zero right.
You know zero waste zero all those things net zero. So it's kind of a slow go in Texas. I'll
just tell you that and with our you know North Texas council of governments they kind of they
meet with you know all the people that are really focusing on the energy code and and I'll tell you
this energy code that's produced here this is for like the whole United States right. So no area is
going to be the same you know everybody's got a little different area. So there is a some provisions
for that in the energy code but when you when you talk about bringing somebody you know they're
paying you know this much money for construction costs and then jumping them up to here what Cog
is doing is stepping it you know so that we're getting there but it's not it's not like a
scare tactic I guess you would say where people are not going to do new construction.
Can I follow up? I don't need to monopolize. Okay that's helpful. So I take it and I kind of just
like to hear your expert opinion on this. I take it that there's a trade-off here where if we it
sounds like we can increase our standards let's say on energy efficiency of homes and I would take
it that's in keeping I want your slide that says build it right the first way. We can do that but
the risk of that is the increasing price up front of construction such that we might lose out on the
development benefits that come along with that because they could build cheaper somewhere else.
Is that yes that's the balance really? Yeah okay. And if you attend some of these meetings you'll
hear construction and developers say that specific thing like it's cost me more to build here I'm
going to go outside of Denton and build there because it's it's cheaper so that's like one of
the main arguments. And we are trying to keep you know the affordability here as well. Yeah so it's
a right it's about to react. That's tough right because we want to have affordable places for
folks to live. Gotcha. Brand? Go ahead. So I remember being on the National League of Cities and they
were big advocates of everyone passing the the building codes the national building codes because
they were they were so good and above other standards. And so you mentioned that Texas was
behind what is the is there one that is most of the cities in Texas are on like is it the 2000?
Um I would say most cities are probably at the 2015s. Okay. At least there's quite a few more
progressive cities that are out in 2018s and 2021s. Okay and are is there like a there's not a penalty
or anything? No the state has a minimum so even if your city doesn't adopt you know to the minimum
bill the state says hey you have to build to this. And I think the state's at 15 or 16 sorry. Right
it's probably over 15 right now. Okay so that's many years ago. Right and with each new code cycle
you're getting new technologies you're getting better codes that are safer so that's why we want
to keep on better schedule than we have in the past. Sure. Okay. Sorry. Just as a just to throw this out
perhaps in the future since this affordability keeps cropping up and is used I guess rightfully
so by by builders I just wonder if it would be beneficial to actually meet with some of these
prominent builders and just talk about how we're all on the same page in terms of trying to be
prepared for what's coming down the pike climate wise. And what's not affordable now may be very
affordable and necessary 20 years from now right especially with rain events extreme heat etc and
all there. I know that the Home Builders Association of Dallas meets quite regularly and they do discuss
a lot of these issues. Well I think the more we can connect with that sort of thing the more
communication we have that the more positive the output. So thank you. In our code that you're
talking that we're talking about here are parking minimums part of that or is this just building
and construction? It's just building and construction. Okay. All right. Okay everybody good or any more questions here?
I'll just add before I let Emily go in. I think the first IACC came out in 2002 is that right?
Somewhere near 2002. 2000 will be adopted in 2000 and 2000. Okay so this is a 20 year journey that
we've been on both with utilities and the building inspection side trying to get those code
updates more frequent. That there was a time when the state was at 2006 for a while and we had already
gotten two or three versions above that. So I just want to recognize that Emily's team they've been
really helping get those codes adopted ahead of schedule ahead of the state adoption. I definitely
want to be better. Right. So earlier you mentioned when Adam was talking that there was a group that
was coming to cities and advocating for a sustainable. Do you know what group that is? Yeah the Sphere group and
CECO. Sphere stands for South Central Partnership of Energy Efficiency Resources. I just saw it
and CECO is another state energy conservation office. It's perfect. Thank you very much.
What is it? State energy conservation office. Oh yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah sure. So yeah
they're doing a lot right now. They're working on getting training. They've got grants available.
There's a lot in the works. So we're working pretty closely with them to work on helping us.
Well if there's anything this group can do or I guess I should phrase it as a question is there
anything that this group can do because having the the best energy codes is
part of why we're here as far as sustainability goes. So if there's anything that we can do to
help move this along. Yeah absolutely. We always would love input on you know the adoption of
the new energy code. The 2024 is available online for free so you can certainly peruse it and take
a look at it. It should show you some of the changes from the last code adoption from the 21s.
There's really it's just really great. If you go to the International Code Council website
it's got all the books available. You can just do a search on your 24. And what's that website?
It's ICC safe.org.
Emily do you know if the city council development
committee is reviewing these specific changes? Like the city council is? Well the the yeah the
DCRB. We can definitely. We usually do like a preview to city council and say hey this is
what we're looking at. Reach out if you know we've got some amendments we're getting ready.
You know we're happy to share that information. Okay can I ask one more? Yeah go ahead. Thanks.
Just can you tell me if if I have this correct that what we're talking about here today
are the standards codes for how buildings are going to get built. Correct. That's different
from but related to our zoning questions which are like what kind of building how we're going
to use this piece of land. Correct. Can you just say a little bit about that relationship how it
looks at the city? Sure so building code really it really affects the structure. So where it is on the
lot is not really a building code related activity. How how we get into the building is definitely
going to be like accessibility. We'll definitely take a look at that from public ways but
yeah zoning they're going to take a look at you know what it looks like from the outside.
Building is going to be not so much that right because we're going to say less windows more
energy efficient and then the DDC is a little bit more contradictory and they're like more windows
prettier right. When you say DDP you mean development code. That's correct yeah that's our zoning code.
So there's a little bit of you know it's kind of tough right now right to get to get a product
that needs both codes. I have a question so in the code does it does it specify like the
the type of windows minimal that you need the type of insulation I mean does it get that specific?
No no no and then there's also a house built that says that you can only require what's
minimally required in the code. If it's in the code you can build with it so if you want to put
like stucco then you can use stucco. In our DDC it's you know I think they might have amended it
off by now but it did require minimum brick percentage etc so but like solar ready that
kind of thing is that that's in the code. There is a section on solar ready but it's not required at
the moment so we are definitely looking at that. To clarify the house bill you were mentioning is that
the standard that the state is setting or are you saying that say the 2024 code if it's separate
from the state standard and you can build. Whatever is allowed in the international codes that's what
the state says you're allowed to that a builder is allowed to build to. Regardless of their minimum
threshold. Correct and that's for residential now commercial you know a city can say hey you've got
to make this out of brick or whatever and there's no repercussions but for I think the the goal was
affordable housing so you know sometimes different facades are going to be cheaper.
But as long as it's in the code if we if like even if some people say well that's too far
and goes beyond but if it's in the code this date isn't going to come after you for saying okay we
this is allowed we'd like to do this in our city. Right okay right yeah all right we just can't disallow.
Got you. Got you. Okay yeah go ahead. I mean I love being on this committee because we get to
listen to experts like you from all different facets of the city and just realize how complex
it is there's push and pull and all that. So some of the things that have there's this dynamic that's
come up in our committee that is most prominent here. I don't think it's quite what you call a
principal agent dilemma but what it is is here you've got a builder paying for the upfront cost of
their structure right. So the incentive is for them to make it as cheap as possible.
Somebody else is going to live or work or pay kind of long term to reside and to be in that building.
So their incentive is for it to be built in a way that minimizes long-term costs right. I just want
to hear do you have thoughts of your own or or are there thoughts in the industry that you work in
and interface with that industry about how about that tension there. Right well if you're going to
go house shopping right and you've got a daughter that's looking for a house so I understand the
dilemma you're looking at 1950s houses, 2000s houses and new houses right and
to make it energy efficient how you want it's going to it's going to really balloon the cost and
for new homeowners that's that's a no-brainer you know you're going with the older house because
you can't afford you know what that what that looks like. So there's and then there's other people
you know that are buying a bigger house and they know that you know they know that it's going to
cost more to have a more efficient home but do they want to pay it right so I think I think education
of the public is really important to see what I mean to see what that means right you need to
get it on paper this is what it looks like up front sure but you're going to cost this much
on your library bills. Are there are there documents like that so like if you're going to
to go in and look at like purchasing one of these structures that have been built to code
like you know with the dishwasher it'll say over the lifetime this will cost you an x number of
dollars right is there something like that for these buildings where people can say well okay
it's more up front but it's more energy efficient now I'm going to see that payback. There's
definitely a way to do it and I have seen some models it just there are a lot of factors right
so yeah I'd have to look to see it's not part of our practice or code to give to have something
like that right right so whenever you're doing energy code review for a new building or something
there is something called software for for energy code compliance some softwares will look at
costs you know consumption costs and you know if it meets under a certain one and you're saving
money then that one that you're approved and you can move forward with what you submitted.
And do we have any green builders in the city as of now?
We used to have somebody that did some green building but it's been a while since I've seen
a builder that I use named Dan Fetty. That's exactly who it is that I was thinking of in this
city. I've known him a long time so but I don't really know of anybody else. I do have the William
Ryan Homes Development at Preserving the Concrete. They're doing a net zero writing home. That's
good stuff. Yeah it's just 16 watts or so. Okay that's good to know. Okay any more? Are we good?
Well thank you so much for coming today and again if there's anything that you know you want this
committee to review or yeah that would be wonderful. Have some extra eyes on it. Yeah thank you so much.
All right we have one more item. It's a great meeting today. We will skip down to staff reports.
Catherine? And I'm just giving an update on the green sense questions from the last meeting
and the rejections.
It was a space you know there wasn't one overwhelming factor. It was a little bit
of everything either didn't meet the minimum requirements or was outside under 80 days.
We had some duplicate submissions as well. Can somebody if they're outside if they missed the
application can they reapply the next time or is there like a time where they have to? We have
a 180 day window from the date of installation our purchase so it has to be within that 180 days.
Oh okay and so that's what that means they they applied too late. They applied too late. Okay anybody
have questions on the green sense? We did have a question about the funding levels and say a
specific category gets maxed out for the app type that people take up that funding. Yeah thanks for
mentioning that. So we had already adjusted the e-bike up from 20,000 to 40,000 and we just hit
over 40,000 last week whenever I was working on this I noticed that.
I'm probably going to look at pausing the e-bike for a little bit. We can do it where we still
accept applications and if we have savings across another category in the future we could go back
and process those through. There's a couple of ways we can do that look back. I hate to take away
from HVAC because we've I think we're already at the same level we did all of last year for HVAC.
And then the windows I feel like we're doing more window rebates than we did last year so
I think it's just awareness because the window rebate didn't go up significantly.
It feels like a really good problem to be in that our programs are getting maximized. I'm curious
and because we've not necessarily been in this situation in the past if there might be opportunities
to explore additional injections of funding into our sustainability fund?
Into the sustainability fund? I'm sorry. Not that I'm aware of.
That is something we could visit with DME about later in the year. We
are decreasing we think we're going to run out six months in advance or something like that.
I think right now we're we're kind of pacing to go through July August time frame.
Katherine on here can you remind me if the the rebate or the initial budget doesn't get met say
like HVAC 457,000 does that and only 300,000 gets used does that extra stay in and balance carry over
for the next budget cycle? No not the way this is set up. This is operating here. Okay so then
where does that money go back to? Just the general fund or? It's DME dollars we're spending from DME
accounts for this I would say with DME. I don't think we're going to have that problem.
Right I'm just you know curious for some of them if they don't get used. Most of them do but
if they didn't I wasn't sure where the money went back to. Right and then multi-family we
haven't had any multi-family large multi-family come in yet so that might be where we could pull
for them for another area. I was even looking at breaking that up kind of quarterly and seeing how
we might be able to do a confusion from that. Okay so there's no dollars left over so it just
kind of gets moved to the ones being used the most. Correct. Okay all right we want to spend
all their money. Anybody have any other questions on on this? All right we will move down to the
matrix. Anything questions on the matrix? Ed? Yeah. I'm going to add to you. Just a couple of things.
This you're familiar with the thing that. Can you mention that? Yeah. Read it please.
This is the Dallas-Fort Worth air quality improvement plan that the North Central Texas
Council of Governments and we had a presentation on this at their last meeting and the reason why
I'm bringing this up is the reason I found this on the public meetings page on the city's website
and clicked on it and got this and I wondered if this could be put set out or put on sustainability's
Facebook page so or whatever social media you're using like the the notices I get because there
is a opportunity for people to put their their opinions in about this. Yeah that's a great idea.
And so I think the more the more eyes on this is better. Absolutely. Okay thank you. And the other
thing is if it's possible I'd like very much to get an update on the status of the climate
or the draft climate action and adaptation plan. Okay. Thank you. If we could just add that last
one to the matrix as a presentation. Yeah. Brian? Good. Adam? I'm good. All right I think I think
we're good here. Does anyone have any other concluding items? I think this one that I'd
mentioned first may be a concluding item we could put that on our website. Okay. And concluding item?
All right well we do have some guests here today council member Brian Bett and council member Joe
Holland. That's right sorry. And so welcome and we have some other students today and are
wanting to welcome y'all. Thank you very much. I appreciate everyone's time today. Have a good
weekend. We will conclude at 1 31. Thank you. Enjoy the weather.