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 >> Good afternoon and welcome to the city of Denton's planning and zoning commission

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 meeting for Wednesday, February 14th, 2024.

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 This is our work session and with a quorum present I will call us to order at 5.04 p.m.

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 Let the record show that commissioners Thaggard and Cole are absent at this time.

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 First item on our work session is citizen comments on consent agenda.

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 Is there anyone here to speak on consent agenda?

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 Then we'll go to our next item, which is clarification on tonight's regular meeting agenda.

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 First being our minutes from January 24th.

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 Any questions on those minutes?

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 That takes us then to consent agenda.

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 Any questions on the consent agenda?

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 We've got two items there today.

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 Objections for individual consideration, 4A, I'll have Erin come up for that one.

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 We did get an email on that that changed from our backup.

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 I think they were just waiting on civil engineering things to be completed.

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 Good evening, Chair and members of the commission, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

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 Yes, you did receive an email for this.

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 So this is the final plot for Denton Shady Shores edition.

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 We were previously recommending denial.

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 They had a few more engineering comments to work out in their civil plans, and that is

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 the condition for approval for final plots.

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 They've since worked all those out.

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 So now we are recommending approval.

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 Great.

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 Any questions for Erin?

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 Appreciate it.

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 Thank you.

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 4B on items for individual consideration is V23-0008.

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 Matt's on his way up to give us a summary of that item.

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 Hi.

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 Hello.

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 First time.

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 Welcome.

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 Thank you.

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 All right.

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 All right.

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 Matt Burdine, good evening, members of the commission, Matt Burdine, assistant planner,

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 today presenting a subdivision variance request, V23-008, Hoke edition variance.

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 So I'm going to show a few slides from the presentation just to show where this is.

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 So it's associated with a minor plat that came in.

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 Here we see northeast side of Denton.

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 This variance is for a property more on the east side in ETJ1.

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 Here's a site a little more zoomed in.

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 As you can see, it's about a half a mile north of US 380 off of North Trinity Road.

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 And then this is just a picture of the subject property itself.

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 All right.

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 So the minor plat that came in, the purpose was to create two lots, one of which is a

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 flag lot.

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 And there are two subdivision variance requests, both associated with that flag lot.

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 One is to increase the max flag pole length from our standard of 300 feet to 521 feet

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 for the proposed lot one that you see.

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 And then also the second subdivision variance request for that same proposed lot one was

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 an exemption from the permanent turnaround requirement in DDC chapter subsection eight.

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 Some considerations that when analyzing this variance was the -- in regards to the turnaround,

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 the fire department did review the proposed plat in the event that they had to visit this

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 site and they determined they could safely enter and exit the proposed lot one safely.

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 And in regards to the maximum flag pole length and increase in that, as you can see, 300

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 feet is marked out and then up to 521 is what they're requesting.

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 In analysis noted, the challenging site topography of this property, there is quite a large pond

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 in the front of the lot and so any development on this lot is forced more towards the back,

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 which staff determined would likely create irregularly shaped lots regardless of how

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 it's subdivided.

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 Another consideration was when these improvements such as the home and pond were put in place

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 and according to the applicant, the pond and homes have been on this property since the

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 early 1980s, which is well before the DDC regulations came into effect in 2019.

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 And overall, do not expect this subdivision variance to be detrimental to the public safety,

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 health and welfare and staff is recommending approval of this subdivision variance.

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 Any questions?

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 Thank you, Matt.

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 Any questions?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you very much.

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 We'll see you at the regular meeting.

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 Next item for individual consideration is 4CFP240004.

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 Hello Julie.

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 Good evening, Julie Wyatt.

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 Sorry, ah here we go, sorry about that.

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 All right, Julie Wyatt and this is a final plat for Audreau Oaks Phase 2B.

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 This is a single family residential neighborhood located on the south side of Audreau Oaks east

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 of Nottingham.

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 It is consistent with the preliminary plat, however they do have a couple of items that

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 they do need to work through in order to meet all of the technical requirements and so staff

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 is recommending denial.

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 They have requested an extension to the February 28th meeting.

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 We do not have any objection to that.

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 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

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 Thank you, Julie.

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 Any questions there?

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 Is that their first request for extension?

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 Yes, it is.

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 Thank you.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you very much.

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 See you later.

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 We've got two public hearings this evening.

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 The first being 5A PD 230003.

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 Let Mia come up and give us a summary of that item and we can take any questions.

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 Hi Mia.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the Commission.

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 Mia Hines, senior planner.

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 This item, or I have a detailed presentation to go over during the regular session, walking

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 us through the PD development standards and proposed development plan, but just a brief

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 summary.

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 This item is a request to rezone approximately 12.24 acres from MNSC and R3 to a new PD.

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 The site itself is located at the northwest corner of US 380 and Old North Road.

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 The, or if approved, the required, or the development would be required to be developed

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 according to the PD development standards and PD development plan that has been provided

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 to you in your backup.

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 The Denton 2040 future land use map designation for this area consists of community mixed

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 use closer to the university, East University Road and Old North Road and then moderate

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 residential to the north of that as we push further into some existing single family residential

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 development.

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 Just some background of the applicant and this project.

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 You may recall seeing this site, Z22-0003 came before this body in summer of 2022.

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 At that time, the request was simply to rezone a portion of the frontage from SC to MN to

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 facilitate a multifamily development.

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 Some of the residents from the neighboring community showed out and had concerns about

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 construction or development taking place on that site and being close to their rear property

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 lines and some additional concerns about height that would be permitted under straight MN

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 zoning.

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 At that time, the council sort of postponed the item and directed the applicant to come

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 back with a PD to show a more comprehensively planned site and to codify some of the concessions

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 that they agreed that they would do with that straight zoning case.

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 This is their way of doing that.

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 They have a PD with a full development plan and also included the commercial piece along

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 East University Road.

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 Of course, we did review this PD pursuant to our criteria for approval and staff is

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 recommending approval of this request this evening.

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 With that, I will take any questions or comments you have.

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 Thanks, Mia.

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 Commissioner Smith.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 Mia, I know you said the council, it got postponed.

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 I can't remember what happened at PNZ with that one.

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 Did we approve it?

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 Yes.

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 That was a recommendation of approval.

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 Okay.

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 Do you remember if the vote was by chance at all?

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 I do not, but I can look that up and get that for you in the regular session.

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 Okay.

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 Gotcha.

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 Thank you.

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 Anything else?

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 Commissioner Prout.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 I believe it was 6-0.

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 The last one meeting I missed in the last three years.

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 Anyway, I don't want to go at length because we got a full work session here.

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 I'm confused by the nature.

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 I understand why this happens.

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 Council pushes it back, et cetera.

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 But in our review back up, it says there's no competing goals, policies, or strategies

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 with this proposal, et cetera.

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 And that's sort of the same language that was used when it first came before us under

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 the MN zoning of a smaller portion of this land.

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 Was there really no discussion amongst staff about whether straight zoning or a PD is better

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 from a planning perspective because that's what it sounds like is when it came in the

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 first time the applicant asked for straight zoning and that's what we gave them and we

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 supported that.

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 Then when they came back with the PD, we supported that and we're just not talking about the

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 elephant in the room.

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 Yes.

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 And Tina may have something to add here, but I can add a little bit.

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 When we do get applications in, of course, we look at the application.

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 We take in their application, what they're trying to do, and we work with them and review

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 it and stuff.

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 We base whatever their request is, we look at our criteria for approval on that specific

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 type of request, and we go from there.

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 In the same way we did with the PD, we weigh it up against the specific general criteria

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 for approval for a PD, and then we go from there and work with the applicant.

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 But Tina may have something to add to that.

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 Just to add, so when the original request came through, obviously, as Mia pointed out,

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 we recommended approval because it met our criteria.

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 Ideally, we would like to rely upon our development standards as provided for within the straight

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 zoning districts.

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 However, in this case, given there were neighborhood concerns expressed, particularly at the city

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 council meeting, and I can't recall if we had anybody at the PNZ meeting, but I do know

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 we had folks at the council meeting, and then combined with the direction that we received

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 from council, the council was interested in all of the concessions that the applicant

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 was offering up to be provided for at a plan development district.

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 In this case, the fact that the applicant has expanded their subject property has included

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 the commercial property.

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 We believe that this is a really good design for this property and actually results in

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 a better project than what we potentially could get under straight zoning.

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 Hence why we're recommending approval of this project.

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 Is it a plan development district?

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 Yes, in this case, the PD process was used to ensure that there is a better development

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 plan that prevails.

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 If the applicant ever wants to deviate from this plan in the future, then it's going to

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 require an amendment to the plan development district.

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 I guess just to follow up, I think it's been almost a year and a half, like 15 or 16 months

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 since that came before us originally.

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 Is that a typical timeline?

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 That seems like a very long time.

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 When interest rates are going up, I'm trying to understand why that takes so long.

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 Is it because they had to get all the way through CEP to get the confidence that all

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 the criteria will be meetable?

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 When it comes to working on plan development districts, they do have a tendency to take

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 more time compared to an applicant coming in with a zoning compliance plan that would

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 comply under the existing zoning.

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 In this case, the applicant still needed a zoning entitlement in order to be able to

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 make the multifamily component of the project work.

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 But I don't recall, Mia, when did they re-submit this project?

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 I believe under the PD that was submitted in maybe April of last year and between the

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 back and forth to get this to a point where staff is reviewing their full zoning compliance

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 plan.

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 We're making sure utilities are preliminarily placed in the right place.

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 All of those things, making sure they're meeting the DDC in areas that they're supposed to

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 or specifically requesting the deviations or alternatives from areas that they're not.

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 That whole review process, working with staff, of course, we posted our submittal calendar

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 online and then it's up to the applicant to re-submit and get that into us when they're

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 ready for it.

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 Yeah, so from April to now in January, for a site like this, that's a reasonable time

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 period associated with it because of the complexities that are involved with the project.

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 If the applicant is engaging the community during that time frame, then that just adds

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 to the time length compared to if they were not.

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 It's not uncommon for plan development districts to take a longer time to bring forth because

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 also the complexity of the review associated with the development plan that is being required

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 for this particular type of plan development district.

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 If it was just a PD overlay where we were varying a handful of standards, then it's

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 a different situation, but in this case, being that the type of plan development district

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 they applied for, the fact that we've got to review all of their development plans associated

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 with it because we want to make sure it works.

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 If this gets approved, we don't want to have a plan that doesn't work where we're having

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 to come back and amend it, so it does take time and effort associated with it.

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 Thank you.

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 That helps.

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 Thank you.

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 Yeah, I definitely have a couple of questions.

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 I didn't see anything in the back up with regard to neighborhood engagement, but was

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 that done?

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 Do you know?

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 Yes.

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 Yeah, and I believe the applicant will be here this evening to speak to that a little

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 bit more.

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 Okay.

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 I know there was a neighborhood meeting a few weeks ago.

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 The HOA representatives from the HOA showed up to that meeting and were generally in support

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 of what the applicant's proposing.

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 Okay.

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 Then just some specific things because I was just confused.

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 With this subdivision that this is in front of, there's like a vacant lot that maybe has

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 a crash gate or something in front of it off Paxton Way.

245
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:42,400
 I'm trying to understand what is happening with that, and I couldn't really get that

246
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,680
 off the plan.

247
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:50,640
 The only vacant lot that I know of has a gas line easement running through it, and it also

248
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,240
 runs through this property as well.

249
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,240
 Okay.

250
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,720
 Okay, so then that makes sense of why that is there, and that they've got wrought iron

251
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,520
 fence there.

252
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,880
 I believe that's ... I might have to confirm and get back to you on that.

253
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:10,480
 Yeah, I'm just wondering what's happening with like ... Is that staying like it is,

254
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,880
 and then is it impeding someone's access?

255
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,880
 If they're having access to it now, it just ...

256
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,520
 Is it one of the ones in the ... Can you see my mouse?

257
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,440
 One of the ones in the center here, or is it this one over here to the ...

258
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,440
 No, it's in the center.

259
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,440
 In the center.

260
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,440
 Okay, yes, yes.

261
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:32,640
 Yeah, that is most likely vacant because there's a gas line easement that runs through it.

262
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,640
 This development is proposing a pedestrian connection to that, and agreed with the applicant

263
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,200
 and the HOA, worked that out, and agreed to make a pedestrian connection at a gate where

264
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,360
 the HOA would have direct access from therein.

265
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,320
 So they're going to open that up?

266
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,320
 Yes.

267
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,320
 Okay.

268
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,720
 That's one question.

269
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,200
 Next one is the existing multifamily that's there.

270
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,240
 They will not connect, correct?

271
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,480
 My understanding, the applicant has reached out to them, and they are not ...

272
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:10,060
 They are just going to stay locked like they are, okay.

273
00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:16,080
 One thing ... There's a point in there about certificate of occupancy.

274
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:22,440
 Prior to getting that, the developer has to replace the six-foot fence with an eight-foot

275
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:28,920
 fence, and then it says ... Well, on specific lots, four through 10.

276
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,880
 But then it also says, "Or reimburse the owner."

277
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,120
 So tell me how we came to that, and that seems like a really bad idea to have either or.

278
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,440
 Who's going to decide that?

279
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,200
 Yeah, so I think that agreement, that's one of those items that the applicant has put

280
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:53,600
 in there based on an agreement between them and the HOA as well.

281
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,480
 They might be able to speak to the timeline of that as well.

282
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,520
 Yeah, because it would be very strange to me, we're going to have some going to get

283
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,680
 replaced with an eight-foot, and then others are not, and how's that going to look?

284
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,680
 Okay.

285
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:16,040
 Yeah, I can pose that question to them as well.

286
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:22,880
 I think that is all the questions I had written down, so I will defer to anyone else.

287
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,880
 Anybody else?

288
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:32,280
 Okay, we'll just talk to you further at the regular meeting.

289
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,000
 Thank you very much.

290
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:42,240
 Our other public hearing item for tonight is 5B SD 23-0002, Ashley's item.

291
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,240
 Hello.

292
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,560
 Good evening, Ashley Eckstead, assistant planner.

293
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,480
 This is SD 23-2.

294
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,360
 This is the special sign district for James Wood Auto Park.

295
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,280
 The purpose of this request is that some of their proposed ground sign designs and locations

296
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,160
 do not meet the code of ordinances regulations, and these are the height, the number, and

297
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,720
 the setbacks.

298
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,000
 These signs were previously installed on this property, and they were removed by TxDOT in

299
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,440
 the acquisition for the 35E widening project, so they are just requesting to reinstall the

300
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,480
 old signs.

301
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,480
 The Denton side code does allow for special sign districts to deviate from the regulations

302
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,080
 with an alternative comprehensive plan.

303
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,800
 This is a large complex site.

304
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,480
 It's 54 acres.

305
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,880
 They have eight driveway connections and eight structures, so it is a complex site that we

306
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,640
 do believe meets the alternative comprehensive sign plan requirements, so we will be recommending

307
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,640
 approval.

308
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,480
 The next step after this will be city council on March 5th.

309
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,160
 I have a longer presentation for the public hearing, but happy to go into any more detail

310
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,160
 or answer any questions.

311
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,160
 Thanks, Ashley.

312
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,160
 Anybody else?

313
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,160
 Commissioner Cole.

314
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,160
 Thank you, Chair.

315
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:57,640
 Just wondering, usually these sign issues have been a ZBA thing.

316
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,000
 Why is that not ... I'm just curious.

317
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,000
 I just wonder why this is coming to us and not the ZBA.

318
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,560
 The sign code allows for ... In order to create the special sign district, it is kind of a

319
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,360
 zoning action, so it goes to planning and zoning first and then city council, so it's

320
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,560
 more like that than just a variance for one sign for the height.

321
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,960
 It's a whole comprehensive plan for this site.

322
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,960
 Thank you.

323
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,880
 Yeah, I think you're thinking of when somebody wants one sign bigger than another, but this

324
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:28,680
 actually creates an actual district on the site.

325
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,080
 Anybody else on this one?

326
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,080
 Thank you.

327
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,080
 Thanks.

328
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,580
 Look forward to your presentation later.

329
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:40,040
 Okay, that is it for our agenda this evening.

330
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:47,760
 We do have one work session report, and that is 3A, PZ24021.

331
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:48,760
 Receive a report.

332
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,680
 Discussion regarding the City of Denton's affordable housing strategy toolkit.

333
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,680
 Hello.

334
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,680
 Hi.

335
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,680
 Welcome back.

336
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,680
 Good evening, commissioners.

337
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,680
 Good to see you.

338
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,680
 You know what?

339
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,680
 I've already put this open.

340
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,680
 Here we go.

341
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:10,880
 Well, good evening, Leah Atkinson, Community Services.

342
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,840
 You may remember last time we spoke, we went over some demographic and housing stock data

343
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,320
 regarding City of Denton and its affordable housing needs.

344
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:26,840
 So this time we're back to talk about our affordable housing strategic toolkit.

345
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960
 So as our community continues to grow, the City of Denton is committed to ensuring a

346
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,000
 balanced mix of housing types and opportunities available to community members at different

347
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000
 income levels.

348
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:42,800
 Therefore, city council adopted the affordable housing strategic toolkit in February of 2022.

349
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:53,380
 This outlines five strategies with 18 targeted activities to deliver these housing interventions.

350
00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:56,200
 I'm going to just touch on this briefly.

351
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,240
 As part of the affordable housing needs assessment and market value analysis reinvestment fund,

352
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:07,560
 did break Denton down into seven categories, seven markets based on general characteristics.

353
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,520
 I only bring this up to say that none of our strategies are one size fits all.

354
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,440
 We don't intend to put the same kind of a development in every part of Denton.

355
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,800
 We want to have specific strategies that are good for specific neighborhoods and communities

356
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:22,920
 within Denton.

357
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:29,120
 So for example, you might see Southeast Denton there, that yellow in district E has some

358
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,160
 of the lowest homeownership rates.

359
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,160
 And also 36% of renters are receiving some kind of subsidy.

360
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:43,280
 So the plan there is not necessarily to build a large subsidized rental development, but

361
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:49,520
 more so to work on increasing homeownership and affordable opportunities to own homes

362
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,920
 and decrease displacement in that area.

363
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:57,560
 Whereas we might focus more rental developments and subsidy opportunities in strong markets

364
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:08,960
 such as B, C, and D, so that low income folks can get to be part of those succeeding neighborhoods.

365
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,200
 The five strategies of the toolkit are infill development, first of all.

366
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,840
 I'm sure you're familiar with that, using our land effectively, building smarter, often

367
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,840
 smaller.

368
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,120
 I'll talk a good bit about that later on, since it's of course very relevant to your

369
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:23,120
 work.

370
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,640
 The zoning relief and variances also might have something to do with your commission,

371
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,040
 so we will also be coming forward to you with strategies related to zoning relief.

372
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,560
 The big takeaway there is that we want to use slight zoning relief to incentivize affordable

373
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,280
 housing development in the city of Denton.

374
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,680
 Third, we want to increase capacity and resources.

375
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,560
 So primarily we want to empower non-profit developers and bring more developers into Denton

376
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:55,280
 doing affordable housing work, so incentivizing and empowering at the same time.

377
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,360
 Fourth, we want to focus on preservation and expansion.

378
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,160
 We have a lot of great housing in Denton, and we also have a lot of great affordable

379
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,080
 housing programs, so we want to make sure that those are sustainable, and we want to

380
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,600
 expand them to serve more folks.

381
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:16,600
 Finally, we want to increase access to information, so talking about tenants' rights and housing

382
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,600
 choice vouchers and making sure everyone is as informed as possible about how to be a

383
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,600
 good neighbor.

384
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:31,360
 I'm going to get a little bit deeper into each of those activities.

385
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,040
 I'm actually going to start on accessory dwelling units.

386
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:41,220
 So as you may know, we do have a pretty good accessory dwelling unit ADU program to allow

387
00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:44,100
 for homeowners to build backyard rental cottages.

388
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:48,640
 We actually want to expand this program and make it even easier and really incentivize

389
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,440
 homeowners to build these cottages and rent to low-income households.

390
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840
 So we're going to do that by having prototype housing models.

391
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,660
 This is something a lot of cities have had success with, partnering with an architect

392
00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:07,360
 and having pre-approved plans for an ADU that homeowners can take and run in exchange for

393
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:14,000
 streamlined permitting, expedited processes, also partnering with participating lenders

394
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,480
 who want to empower homeowners to do this.

395
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,600
 So this is one great strategy, especially when we consider our seniors who are experiencing

396
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,080
 housing instability.

397
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,360
 We additionally want to work on a small home community program.

398
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,300
 You may know tiny homes are already in the DDC.

399
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:36,640
 We want to take this a step further and make this something that we can do with tiny homes

400
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,040
 and cluster cottages, like you see in this picture here, duplexes, townhomes to allow

401
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,520
 for staggered density, right, not necessarily going strictly straight from single-family

402
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,720
 homes to apartment complexes, but easing in and out with small home communities that can

403
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,600
 make homeownership or rentals, right, more affordable for folks.

404
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,280
 So this is something that you can expect us to come forward with projects and proposals

405
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,280
 for you soon.

406
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,280
 Do I have any questions here?

407
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,280
 Cool.

408
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,920
 All right, thanks.

409
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:17,600
 Next, zoning relief, and I'll be brief on this one specifically because this is just

410
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,440
 about an affordable housing overlay.

411
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,000
 This is something we see as kind of a future project in a few years, but we do want to

412
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,560
 explore the option of, in our stronger markets, finding small spots for an overlay district

413
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,080
 to incentivize affordable housing in a high-opportunity neighborhood.

414
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,400
 Do I have questions about that?

415
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,400
 Yeah.

416
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,400
 Cool.

417
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,400
 Commissioner Smith?

418
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,400
 What would those look like?

419
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:46,280
 When you say an overlay, obviously you have specific ... Usually, an overlay is specific

420
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,280
 restrictions.

421
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,400
 So with an affordable housing overlay, then it's not necessarily restrictions.

422
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,720
 It's then specific reliefs.

423
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,760
 How does that get implemented without affecting underlying zoning elsewhere and maybe having

424
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,760
 some negatives?

425
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,440
 I can't necessarily think ... Okay, maybe setbacks or units per acre.

426
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,040
 You throw a housing overlay on small areas.

427
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,320
 I don't know what maybe small areas is, but you kind of gave that A through G ranking

428
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,320
 within there.

429
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,880
 If it's that D and below section that we want to be able to do that in or something else,

430
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,880
 I don't know.

431
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,080
 How do you do that without affecting other underlying zonings without having negative

432
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,080
 consequences?

433
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,080
 I'm going to let Danny take that one.

434
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,080
 Cool.

435
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,080
 Yeah.

436
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:37,480
 Danny Shaw, Community Services.

437
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:43,600
 I might let Tina help me out here specifically, but what we're looking at is it would affect

438
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:49,760
 the underlying zoning if it had specific reliefs that were available or it might not.

439
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,720
 It just depends on what we're looking at for the viability of the property that we're looking

440
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,200
 at or the properties in plural.

441
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,200
 So it could or it couldn't.

442
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,440
 I think it would just depend on the different areas we'd be looking at for these overlays.

443
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,920
 I don't know if you can help me with the better language.

444
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:13,880
 When you have a zoning overlay district, it can provide relief to certain standards that

445
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,240
 are otherwise in the base zoning district and the overlay district would have to call

446
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,360
 that out or it could be more restrictive.

447
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:29,760
 If we're trying to encourage more opportunities for housing in certain areas and we apply

448
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:36,040
 an overlay, then one way to encourage those additional housing types may be to grant some

449
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:42,200
 relief whether it's on setbacks or density or if height were appropriate, that could

450
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:48,040
 be one, but I would anticipate it's more of how that structure is placed on the property

451
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:55,000
 and then the mass or scale associated with it.

452
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,120
 It would still be something that would be a reviewable process per project, right?

453
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,080
 That's absolutely what we would expect.

454
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,360
 It wouldn't be by right changes due to the overlay the same way like the razor ranch

455
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,160
 overlay district has its own restrictions and those items don't have to come here.

456
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,600
 I'm not saying every overlay district has those, but there would be some oversight on

457
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:21,280
 it so it wouldn't just give Joe Blow property owner the chance to say, "Well, I want to

458
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,400
 do something else that's not an affordable housing project specifically, but I want my

459
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,400
 setback to be different.

460
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,360
 I want my density to be different on my land without having some sort of ties to specifically

461
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,280
 what the overlay district is designed for."

462
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,280
 Yes.

463
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:39,000
 If the goal is specifically to address additional affordable housing options, then we would

464
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:47,400
 write the overlay as such so it's specific to incentivizing the affordable housing, not

465
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,220
 all of the other uses that are allowed in that base zoning district.

466
00:30:51,220 --> 00:30:58,840
 We would be very careful in working with Danny's team on how we would write that overlay and

467
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:05,480
 be specific to, in all likelihood, probably incentivizing or making it easier for housing

468
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:11,840
 options to be constructed within a neighborhood, so since it's a zoning action, there will

469
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,280
 still be the public hearing process.

470
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,480
 I would anticipate when we get to this timeframe that there would probably be significant public

471
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,160
 engagement associated with it because I would anticipate people would have questions about

472
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:28,560
 how it works, and then we could be able to address better specifics at that time once

473
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,520
 we have regulations crafted and a better understanding of what we're seeking to achieve.

474
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,280
 Right, and I 100% agree because the goal here is everything that we're doing is to incentivize

475
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,840
 it but in exchange for, so we will want those things built in that mean you're not just

476
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,240
 getting it, you're getting it in exchange for an affordability for a certain period

477
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,240
 of time.

478
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,240
 Gotcha.

479
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,040
 I want to throw a bunch of answers on my next question here because I don't want to make

480
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:57,400
 it sound like I'm against affordable housing or anything whatsoever within that, but I see

481
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,160
 two concerns here and I really want to frame the question and more of where did the idea

482
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,720
 come from and how did other communities work through these two concerns, because one, I

483
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:14,000
 could see this concern being, I could see an overlay being something that could be weaponized

484
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,360
 to a degree of targeting a certain development in certain communities being in certain areas,

485
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,520
 right, that if we want affordable housing in our city, we don't want it here, we want

486
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,840
 it over there for one, and then two, I could see it being a concern of a citizen that if

487
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,120
 I have a property in an area that an overlay district comes in that's affordable housing,

488
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,280
 I say, "Well, I could sit there and say, 'Well, you're then deeming my home and my

489
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:44,680
 property as being an affordable housing neighborhood which may impact my property values.'"

490
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,760
 All of those things are asinine and I want that to be on the record that I think that

491
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,600
 we shouldn't be viewing it that way or thinking about affordable housing that way.

492
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,200
 I'm just more of getting ahead of the neighborhood folks that will come in and speak out against

493
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,960
 it when this happens, and I want to know how other communities worked through those problems

494
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:00,960
 in the past.

495
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,160
 We'll give you some overview on that later if that's all right, because it would be a

496
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,800
 long conversation about which ones we reviewed within the assessment process, but we did

497
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,800
 and our consultant reviewed a couple of them to give us some good examples, but we can

498
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:12,800
 provide that to you.

499
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,800
 I'll take that answer.

500
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,800
 Thank you.

501
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:15,800
 Okay.

502
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:16,800
 Thanks.

503
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,800
 Mr. Perot.

504
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:18,800
 Thank you, Chair.

505
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:26,240
 I'll give you an overview on that note, are we at a point yet where we know whether we

506
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:33,800
 envision an overlay being used as a bag of tools that applicants could come in and say,

507
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,760
 "I want that one to apply to my property," as opposed to the city has the bag of tools

508
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:49,480
 and goes out to actively incentivize the type of development in the regions that it's warranted?

509
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:50,480
 Does that make sense?

510
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,480
 It does.

511
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,440
 This is actually, I will call this a tool in the bag of tools, so we're working towards

512
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:03,920
 that right now, a development incentive package that will have the screwdriver, the knife,

513
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,040
 the hammer, all types of different tools as our goal so that each property is unique in

514
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,120
 how it looks and what it's able to do.

515
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,680
 One developer looking at one property may need the hammer, one other property might

516
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,080
 need the wrench, and so we want to be able to give that flexibility to the developer

517
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:25,440
 to look at what's the best tool to help them with this kind of product in exchange for

518
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,440
 that affordability.

519
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,320
 I'll continue to say that repeatedly.

520
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,120
 We're not giving anything away.

521
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,460
 It's always going to be with the conditions of you will create that affordability over

522
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:40,160
 a period of time.

523
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:46,240
 Nobody's getting things for free on our watch.

524
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:51,000
 Next we are wanting to build capacity and resources, so part of that is our capacity

525
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,220
 building match grant.

526
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:57,560
 We actually did already run this with ARPA funds, I believe, yes, and that was a more

527
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,480
 general project with bond funds.

528
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:05,480
 We're hoping to do this with affordable housing developers, specifically nonprofits.

529
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,120
 So this is just an example of some of our major nonprofit affordable housing developers

530
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,480
 in the city of Denton, and also pointing out that we really want to incentivize new affordable

531
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:22,560
 housing developers to come and be in our community, and so yes.

532
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,520
 So we'll be implementing that match grant.

533
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,920
 Additionally, we do want to implement a low-income home ownership program.

534
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,840
 It's actually a little known fact that housing choice vouchers can be used to pay towards

535
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,840
 a mortgage.

536
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,440
 A housing choice voucher, for those who don't know, was formerly called a Section 8 voucher.

537
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,080
 Those are administered by the Denton Housing Authority and paid towards a portion of one's

538
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,480
 rent, or in this case, a mortgage.

539
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,400
 So this is a great way for low-income households to find a little bit more housing stability

540
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,240
 and generate some generational equity as well.

541
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:02,760
 So we're hoping to combine low-cost construction methods and favorable lending terms with down-payment

542
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:08,040
 assistance in collaboration with the Housing Authority for tenants with these vouchers.

543
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,360
 Do I have any questions here?

544
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,360
 Cool.

545
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:12,360
 Yes.

546
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:13,360
 Commissioner Smith.

547
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:20,520
 I know we've had some, like the Love First projects and those kinds of things.

548
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,680
 I know we've had other nonprofits who started their capital fundraising towards these.

549
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,520
 The only question I had is on the Capacity Building Match Grant.

550
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,400
 How retroactive do we think those projects will be?

551
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,920
 I know obviously it'd be to incentivize new developers and those kinds of things.

552
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,940
 But if there are projects that have already been approved through zoning in the process

553
00:36:39,940 --> 00:36:44,480
 of capital fundraising, are there provisions within that match grant where we can kind

554
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,240
 of go back to those that are already trying to do the work and saying, "Hey, we're sorry

555
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,520
 this wasn't here whenever you came through, but we'd love to be able to open those tools

556
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,880
 up for you to help you complete your project," right?

557
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:55,880
 Right.

558
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,280
 It's kind of a little bit easier to help someone who's 50% of the way there gets the finish

559
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,720
 line rather than saying, "Well, this is only for those who are at step zero."

560
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:02,720
 Right.

561
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:03,720
 Exactly.

562
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:04,720
 And trying to get them to get them going.

563
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:05,720
 I want you to get the best answer.

564
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:06,720
 Someone will let Danny take that one too.

565
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,360
 I think you give great answers, but Danny might have a different one.

566
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,360
 Yeah.

567
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,520
 With the bond funds especially, we'll have opportunities to create different kinds of

568
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,440
 grant programs that would benefit projects that have already been approved but are looking

569
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,440
 for development.

570
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,320
 That's the same with our existing programs.

571
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,160
 Our CDBG and home funds that are already here annually, those projects can continue to ask

572
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,040
 for funds throughout time to add additional resources.

573
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,960
 So for example, '22, '23 we gave funding to Habitat for Humanity for four homes in

574
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,720
 their project.

575
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:40,760
 They're working on that right now.

576
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,640
 An additional four homes in '23, '24 funding.

577
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,440
 So that's one project example where we're continuing to support that project along the

578
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,440
 way with funding.

579
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:49,440
 Right.

580
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,600
 So that would be no exception here.

581
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,240
 Commissioner Cole.

582
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,200
 Thank you, Chair.

583
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:07,480
 We had a case a while back of an affordable housing development on Woodrow and McKinney.

584
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,040
 And turns out it wasn't the Denton Housing Authority that was doing it, it was the Marble

585
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,800
 Falls.

586
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:23,760
 So I think it's imperative that this body knows who is involved, which housing authority

587
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,760
 is involved.

588
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,240
 Because I was really, I was like, why didn't Denton do it and why didn't Denton do it?

589
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:34,000
 So could you kind of coach us through that process and?

590
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,000
 Yeah.

591
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,040
 The Low Income Housing Tax Credit Program is a federal program that goes through the state.

592
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,140
 So developers apply for that program and there are other tools that they can utilize.

593
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:49,480
 So in that example, there is a 50% property tax exemption for Chodos, community housing

594
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,280
 development organizations.

595
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,520
 If a developer partners with that nonprofit, then they will be eligible for that 50% tax

596
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,520
 exemption.

597
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:03,700
 So when that developer came to the city, we encouraged them to work with our local partners,

598
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,840
 go to the housing authority, see if they can partner with you in a PFC project.

599
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,880
 Go to Denton Affordable Housing Corp and see if they can partner with you as a Chodo.

600
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,000
 But at the time, they were unsuccessful in being able to make those connections and they

601
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,400
 did utilize a Chodo that is a statewide Chodo, one of the only ones that exists, to partner

602
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,240
 to get that 50% tax exemption.

603
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:29,220
 So it is important for us, like you, that that money stay in this community as well.

604
00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:30,880
 So we do encourage that.

605
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,920
 But they at the time don't have to, right?

606
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,120
 They could partner with the partners that they're familiar with as well.

607
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,600
 Can you let us know as a body who, which municipality is doing this?

608
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,880
 Because I would have loved to have known it was Marble Falls instead of Denton.

609
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,120
 It wasn't, just to be clear, that project is not Marble Falls, the city of, it was Marble

610
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:53,520
 Falls, a Chodo there, right?

611
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,520
 Right.

612
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:55,520
 So that, yeah.

613
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,140
 But yeah, we, I mean, if it comes up, that we can make sure that the team knows.

614
00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:02,520
 I think that's good information.

615
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,920
 I can't promise we can always be able to do it.

616
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,680
 So if the project is by right and it's not coming in front of you, that may not be information

617
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,380
 that you're going to have access to.

618
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:11,620
 Why is it not Denton?

619
00:40:11,620 --> 00:40:19,200
 You know, isn't it, is it Denton missing out or is it, why would someone make a decision

620
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,320
 to disregard Denton Housing Authority and go with that one out of...

621
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,320
 Why wouldn't use that language?

622
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,320
 You know, I mean...

623
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,160
 I would say the developers attempted to work with, and there were various reasons why they

624
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,200
 were not unable to partner with those organizations.

625
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,760
 So okay.

626
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:46,480
 So the Denton Housing Authority had a problem with that or couldn't do that where Marble

627
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,200
 Falls could, or whatever other entity could.

628
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:57,380
 Just like any developer, they're going to work with a partner that has deal terms.

629
00:40:57,380 --> 00:41:02,000
 And so whatever the Housing Authority's deal terms may have been different than what the

630
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,080
 Chodo was offering in there.

631
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,640
 So it was a better deal.

632
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:06,640
 Hmm.

633
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:07,640
 Okay.

634
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,280
 Commissioner Cole, if I could add, and I just want to make sure that we don't get too far

635
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:18,480
 off our posting topic here, but when we evaluate requests, like in that case, it was a specific

636
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,480
 use permit.

637
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,560
 So keep in mind, you know, the city also looks at it from a land use standpoint in terms

638
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,000
 of is the land use appropriate for this location?

639
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:33,400
 We don't look at, at least from a planning perspective, we don't look at specific operators.

640
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,040
 So I know in the past we might've talked about, you know, if I have a drive-through restaurant

641
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,960
 that's being requested and it's a specific use permit, it shouldn't matter if it's Starbucks

642
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:48,160
 or Tina's Coffee Shop or Haley's Coffee Drive-Thru, right?

643
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,560
 We look at the appropriateness of the land use.

644
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:56,080
 So the financing structure aspect of it from a land use standpoint and when we evaluate

645
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,520
 those requests, that's what we're focused on.

646
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:05,180
 We're not focused on the specific operator or owner because that is not land use space.

647
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:07,320
 Maybe you should be.

648
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:17,840
 I mean, I just don't see why didn't, I mean, we have this entity, it is here, I don't understand

649
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:24,780
 what they can do that we can't do in terms or, I mean, it just, I don't know, it just

650
00:42:24,780 --> 00:42:25,780
 doesn't seem right.

651
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:28,560
 I mean, somebody's benefiting, why aren't we benefiting?

652
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,680
 Again, to clarify, they attempted to work with the Housing Authority and were not able

653
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,600
 to come to an agreement on the deal.

654
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,600
 So they went to another.

655
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,240
 So what didn't they do that we wouldn't do?

656
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:41,760
 That would not be something I'd be privy to.

657
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:42,760
 Okay.

658
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:43,760
 Well, I'm getting kind of off on this deal.

659
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:44,760
 Yeah, I'm saying that's taking us off on what we're actually posting.

660
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:52,040
 But I just think I would like as a body for us to know who is doing this and who is.

661
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,680
 The Denton Housing Authority is a quasi-governmental group that you could reach out to.

662
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:01,360
 They are required to meet open records and public information that, you know, you're

663
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,480
 welcome to ask.

664
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,400
 We don't have a relationship legally to be able to require that information.

665
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:08,400
 Okay.

666
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,520
 Commissioner Villarreal, did you have a question?

667
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,680
 Yeah, not to get too further down this rabbit hole, but it sounds like they were operating

668
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:16,680
 in good faith.

669
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,780
 However, we did have the scandal come out of Cameron County and their Housing Authority

670
00:43:19,780 --> 00:43:24,720
 and pretty much helping developers just get off the tax rolls, you know, with the cut,

671
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,140
 which is, you know, what the story is referring to.

672
00:43:28,140 --> 00:43:34,400
 Do we have any relief in that, you know, case in case there is a bad-faith actor that comes

673
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:40,000
 in and comes with that approval from the Cameron County Housing Authority?

674
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,400
 Yeah, not at this moment, and again, right now we're really talking about partnering

675
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,720
 with developers to do things like down payment assistance and, you know, building capacity.

676
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,480
 When we talk about LIHTC projects, that does become more of a conversation that we can

677
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,840
 have, and those go through a very lengthy process that occasionally does have to do

678
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,840
 with the partnerships.

679
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:08,640
 But yes, I think -- Yeah, just to add a little more clarification there, too.

680
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,920
 Those go through the state, so they are evaluated and monitored and file land use restriction

681
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,240
 agreements through the state, through the Texas Department of Housing Community Affairs.

682
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:22,120
 So, if there was something like that, then they would be the governing body over that.

683
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,520
 Do we have any other questions here on the Capacity Building Match grant or the Low Income

684
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:29,520
 Homeownership Program?

685
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,520
 Okay.

686
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:31,520
 Thanks.

687
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,520
 Okay, this I actually do have quite a bit to say on.

688
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,360
 We talked about that toolbox a little bit already, and so this is what we call the Developer

689
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,360
 Incentive Toolbox.

690
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:48,320
 This is kind of our bundle of things that we can offer a developer and say, hey, here's

691
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:54,600
 what we can give you if you agree to set aside a certain portion of units as affordable.

692
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,440
 And so it's a few things that we've talked about already and that we're going to talk

693
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:58,440
 about shortly.

694
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,840
 What is that affordable overlay district?

695
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:07,640
 We've also discussed favorable funding opportunities, such as a pre-development loan and capacity

696
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,200
 match building, things like that.

697
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,900
 One that I really want to highlight is a zoning relief amendment.

698
00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:16,600
 This is actually currently being reviewed by legal.

699
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,360
 This should be coming to you shortly.

700
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:25,200
 We worked really closely with the planning team on this to come up with nine incentives

701
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,840
 for a developer to say, hey, I will take a slight parking reduction or a slight setback

702
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:37,380
 reduction or this and that and the other in exchange for setting aside 20% of my units

703
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:42,480
 for households, 50% AMI and below, and so on and so forth.

704
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,320
 And so that will be coming to your consideration soon, so we want to make sure that's on your

705
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:47,320
 radar.

706
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,400
 And then additionally, and we'll talk more about this in detail later, but land for affordable

707
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,060
 housing development, which gives us a bigger seat at the table and a little bit more negotiating

708
00:45:56,060 --> 00:46:02,360
 power to say, hey, we really need you to be building what Denton needs most here.

709
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:07,360
 Last thing I would like talking about on this slide, that's a affordable housing development

710
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:12,900
 for seniors actually developed by the El Paso Housing Authority in El Paso.

711
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:18,320
 Not every project that we're going to build is going to be a large multifamily development,

712
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,320
 but I'd like to point out this one.

713
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,320
 I think it's really beautiful.

714
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,840
 It's got a lot of colors.

715
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,560
 It's got some great architecture.

716
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,840
 It's got solar panels, rooftop gardens, that little wind turbine, walking trails, community

717
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,800
 space.

718
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:35,120
 This is the sort of project that we want to be incentivizing development in Denton look

719
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,120
 like.

720
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,120
 And so I'd just like to talk about that.

721
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,080
 Do I have any questions here?

722
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,880
 Commissioner Smith?

723
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,400
 Thank you, Chair.

724
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:53,480
 There's a fine gray line here that I'm internally battling of we streamline permitting, and

725
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,760
 the incentives of monetary and tax and land and all those kinds of things are great.

726
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:05,880
 When it starts getting to the sausage making, that's where I get a little bit ... I start

727
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:11,480
 getting a little bit of pain in the stomach of we make it easier for one group to come

728
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,560
 through the city, but we make it not easier when we make it harder.

729
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,440
 But we don't give another group the same speed, right?

730
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,480
 And it seems a little inequitable and a little scary, so walk me through that.

731
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,920
 Yeah, of course, we're getting something in exchange for that, because affordable housing

732
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,300
 is a council priority.

733
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:34,600
 This is part of our strategic plan.

734
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:39,040
 This is something that we've been set as a goal since 2022, and we've been talking about

735
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,240
 for longer.

736
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:46,180
 And so that is why we're willing to say a little bit more, like we will prioritize this,

737
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:50,800
 because we know that those budgets for affordable housing are incredibly difficult to make.

738
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,800
 So the longer you sit on that land, the more costly it is to you, and you mess with the

739
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,280
 feasibility of that affordable housing development, and it ultimately costs the tenants and the

740
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,780
 residents that are going to live there.

741
00:48:00,780 --> 00:48:05,220
 So you and Danny have both referenced this, Leah, but whenever we talk about in exchange

742
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:09,160
 for something, what are some of the common things that a developer would be giving up

743
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,840
 in exchange for that maybe you've said it and I've heard it and I'm just not registering

744
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,840
 it?

745
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:15,840
 No, precisely.

746
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,360
 So we're going to be entering into agreements with them, land use restrictive agreements.

747
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:25,000
 I'm going to be monitoring on an annual basis the rents of the tenants in those projects.

748
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,760
 And so they're agreeing to saying 20% of my units will not have a rent higher than this,

749
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,440
 and I will not lease them to a household with income higher than this.

750
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,640
 And we're going to be, we're going to have some pretty high expectations for those developers,

751
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:38,640
 I'll say.

752
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:39,640
 Gotcha.

753
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,640
 Yeah.

754
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,000
 If you find something that doesn't fall in line, what are the ramifications?

755
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,280
 Yeah.

756
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:47,280
 You want to answer that?

757
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,280
 Sure.

758
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,640
 We take their permit back and make them go back through the regular process.

759
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:55,120
 Basically there are financial penalties for it, so we would get that money back.

760
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,120
 It depends on what year it is in the project and how long we've extended the affordability

761
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,120
 period for.

762
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:02,600
 So that would be written down?

763
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,600
 Yes.

764
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,760
 Again, those land use restriction agreements would be very specific in those remedies if

765
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,760
 they are not complying.

766
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,760
 Understood.

767
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760
 Great.

768
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,760
 Thank you.

769
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,600
 And if I could add something in response to Commissioner Smith's question.

770
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:20,320
 So when we talk about streamlining development permitting, keep in mind on the land development

771
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:26,480
 side of things, we're already heavily regulated in terms of how we must perform in terms of

772
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:31,680
 timelines associated with projects, particularly when it comes to plotting and civil engineering

773
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,020
 plans and that's provided for by the state statute.

774
00:49:36,020 --> 00:49:40,880
 If there's opportunities for incentivizing to assist on the permitting side of things,

775
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,760
 then I could see there may be some opportunities there for the permit review when they apply

776
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:50,600
 for a building permit, but on the land development side, we would have to work closely with Danny's

777
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:56,120
 team just because of the regulations that are in place currently that regulate how fast

778
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,120
 we have to perform.

779
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,120
 Right?

780
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,280
 And at the end of the day, I mean, we meet the state statute requirements.

781
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,560
 We look to ensure that we have quality development that's meeting all of our development requirements

782
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,960
 and to ensure that that quality development is happening.

783
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,280
 So we would need to work closely as we would craft any incentives, particularly if it is

784
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:22,840
 addressing any faster permitting because we are sensitive to the fact of not having inequity

785
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:29,680
 amongst project review as well because we realize everybody is subject to financing and having

786
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,800
 to get through the city's review process.

787
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,560
 So just know that we're sensitive to that.

788
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,680
 And just as a reminder, like Leah gave you a good example, though, it doesn't necessarily

789
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,000
 have to be in that process.

790
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,680
 It could be the fact that we're going to do some sort of other bonus or incentive, like

791
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,360
 the pre-approved designs, right?

792
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,960
 That would then streamline the permitting process because then they just pick it, they

793
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,760
 pay and they're done, right?

794
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,320
 So that ultimately would streamline the process immediately just for something like that.

795
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,160
 So we'll use other tools that aren't just in the permitting or the land use conversation.

796
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,160
 Yeah.

797
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,720
 That's a great example because if we've already have, in that case, if we already have a pre-approved

798
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:11,120
 set of plans for the structure itself, then that makes it much easier on the review of

799
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,720
 the structure just to confirm that, yes, okay, this does meet our standards.

800
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:17,400
 They are using our standard package that we have on this.

801
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,160
 They've not made any changes.

802
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,160
 And so then their efforts are focused more on the land development side of it, right?

803
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:29,280
 Getting their zoning compliance plans if needed, their civil engineering plans if needed, platting.

804
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,000
 Then we can focus on that aspect and where it helps save time then is more on that building

805
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,400
 permit review side aspect.

806
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,040
 I think it's a great example, Danny.

807
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,360
 I know that we kind of worry about things from like an extreme a lot of times, right?

808
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:47,920
 When there's something new, like we talked about this with STRs on the DCRC, right?

809
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,880
 We start putting a code in place for STRs and then we start thinking that there's going

810
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,880
 to be massive international conglomerates that are buying up every single house that's

811
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,440
 on the market and turning into an Airbnb.

812
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,000
 And we know that's not the case, right?

813
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,040
 That's a far extreme for it.

814
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,680
 Still it's kind of where that question comes from.

815
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,320
 I don't think we're going to get to a point where we have so many affordable housing projects

816
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:13,240
 that are in queue that non-affordable housing projects, and I'm not even saving residential

817
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:17,600
 projects, I mean commercial projects, are just kind of getting pushed off on the permitting

818
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:18,600
 side.

819
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:23,280
 I get on the land use side, regulatorily we have to move things through, but in a permitting

820
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,640
 side it's like, we'll get to you, but we're just so overflowing.

821
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:30,320
 I think my brain's going to that extreme there, but the only reason why I voice that is because

822
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:31,800
 I would really hate for that to happen.

823
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:32,800
 That would be good.

824
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:33,800
 I understand.

825
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:39,700
 Any other comments, questions, concerns here?

826
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:45,200
 The one thing I might mention is, I know Leah mentioned this, that when she was referring

827
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:51,520
 to the section 2.12 DDC amendment that that would be coming soon.

828
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,240
 So one of the things is, I know Danny's team is going to be making a presentation to council

829
00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:01,960
 later this summer to prioritize their projects as a result of the bond monies.

830
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:08,720
 And so any ordinance amendments that this group would normally see, once she gets that

831
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:14,000
 prioritization on where they're going to focus their program efforts, then we can update

832
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,140
 you from a calendar standpoint and give you an idea of when some of these amendments might

833
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:19,140
 be coming through.

834
00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:21,600
 Or I shouldn't say might, but when they come through.

835
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:22,600
 Right.

836
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:23,600
 Yes.

837
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,520
 I only say soon because this is currently in review with legal.

838
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:33,800
 And then moving on to preservation and expansion, there's quite a bit here.

839
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:39,720
 So I promise to talk slow or and keep it brief really quickly.

840
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:43,920
 We do have a landlord rental maintenance grants that's currently online.

841
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:50,000
 So essentially we can help assist with the rehab of a vacant rental unit in exchange

842
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,880
 for that property owner leasing it at an affordable rate for a period of time.

843
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:54,880
 That's something that we already have.

844
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,480
 We were able to accomplish that very quickly.

845
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,520
 Additionally, we also already have a down payment assistance program at the city of

846
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:03,920
 Denton.

847
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:09,280
 We plan to expand that and make it more accessible and more frequently used.

848
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,160
 And so that's one other strategy.

849
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,600
 In association with that, we are also hoping to establish an employee homeownership program

850
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,440
 in partnership with major employers in the city of Denton, one of which being the city

851
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:27,800
 of Denton itself, but also our major universities, Peterbilt, Denton ISD, essentially teaming

852
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:33,560
 up and talking about providing down payment assistance and again, that low cost construction

853
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:39,040
 and infill in order to give folks who work in Denton the opportunity to own a home in

854
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,040
 Denton.

855
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:45,920
 I'll talk briefly on the housing trust incentive program.

856
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,400
 One thing that we do want to do is help nonprofits establish something called a community loan

857
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:51,400
 trust.

858
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:58,760
 So, essentially, that's where the land is owned by that nonprofit and held in a trust

859
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:04,720
 essentially at to always only be sold at an affordable rate while the homeowner will own

860
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,680
 the home itself.

861
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:11,280
 This is a more long-term project that we're looking at, but just as we talk about sustainability

862
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,520
 and long-term affordability.

863
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,560
 And then lastly, land banking.

864
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:22,560
 This is actually where 75% of the bond funds we are proposing go.

865
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:28,000
 This is just a map of land banks that currently exist in the United States just to show what

866
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,720
 a common practice this actually is.

867
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:33,120
 You can see Dallas right there.

868
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:38,560
 Dallas land blanks has been in operation since I believe 2002.

869
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:44,280
 And so our hope is to purchase vacant lots so that we have a seat at that negotiating

870
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:50,160
 table and say we think that this can be a fantastic homeownership development for low

871
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:51,560
 income households.

872
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,480
 Here's what we expect if we're going to enter an agreement with you for this land.

873
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,400
 Do I have any questions here?

874
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,400
 There's a good bit.

875
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:01,400
 Okay.

876
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,240
 Commissioner Cole.

877
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:04,240
 Thank you, Chair.

878
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:09,920
 The landlord rental maintenance grant, Dallas implemented that several years ago and apparently

879
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:15,840
 it's been a success.

880
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:27,880
 So that's me as a homeowner maybe putting in an ADU and getting favorable terms on the

881
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,560
 loan for that ADU.

882
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:38,400
 Dallas really likes this program and apparently it's had a lot of success.

883
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,560
 Yeah, of course, so separately earlier on we talked about that ADU program, so making

884
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:50,280
 it easier for homeowners to build an ADU in exchange for leasing for a low income or moderate

885
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,960
 income household.

886
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,960
 This is a slightly different program.

887
00:56:53,960 --> 00:57:00,920
 This is for a homeowner or a property owner who owns a house or something or maybe a duplex

888
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:07,620
 that they're leasing out and say it's in poor condition and they don't feel that it's habitable.

889
00:57:07,620 --> 00:57:11,240
 So they need it rehabbed but they don't have the cash on hand to do that or they just want

890
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:13,080
 help for whatever reason.

891
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,600
 We can assist with rehabbing that project.

892
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:21,320
 While it is vacant, we are not relocating anybody in exchange for them agreeing to lease

893
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,040
 it at an affordable rate.

894
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:29,280
 So an ADU would not be covered under that because I know Dallas does and it's been...

895
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:30,280
 Yeah, no.

896
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:31,280
 Sorry, really quickly.

897
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,680
 No, but we plan to have that program too.

898
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,760
 Any other questions here?

899
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,880
 Commissioner Smith.

900
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,160
 That grant, the way that that description reads, I'm just trying to contemplate it because

901
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,280
 I've heard of it but I never really dug super deep in it.

902
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:54,760
 The way it's worded, it makes it sound like it's more of a loan rather than a grant.

903
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:59,260
 It's a period of affordability in exchange for repayment from future rents or loan forgiveness.

904
00:57:59,260 --> 00:58:02,600
 So it's really more of a landlord rental maintenance loan.

905
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,840
 It's a forgivable loan, which is similar to a grant.

906
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,520
 Essentially it's so that if they don't do what we say, we can take the money back.

907
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,520
 Gotcha.

908
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,800
 But how the project runs right now, here's $10,000, I'm just making up numbers, $10,000

909
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:20,800
 to do a rehab and as long as you rent it out at an affordable rate for five years and you

910
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,080
 hold it there, at the end of that five years, we're going to forgive your 10 grand.

911
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,080
 Correct.

912
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,080
 Yes, essentially, yeah.

913
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,800
 What are the size of most of those grants that we're seeing now as they come through

914
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:29,800
 as the project operates?

915
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,740
 Have we done many, I know that the project's online now, but-

916
00:58:32,740 --> 00:58:35,320
 This one's new enough and you can forgive me if I make a mistake, but this one's new

917
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,520
 enough that we actually have not seen any projects come through with this just yet.

918
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:39,520
 25.

919
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:40,520
 25?

920
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:41,520
 Oh.

921
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:42,520
 Yes, 25,000, yes.

922
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,400
 And there's like a minimum on the property value, like it needs to be like three units

923
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:46,920
 or something like that.

924
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:47,920
 No.

925
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:48,920
 Gotcha.

926
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:53,000
 So one little tiny house would give me 25 grand, huh?

927
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,760
 Just kidding, I'm joking.

928
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:56,760
 I'm joking.

929
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:57,760
 I'm joking.

930
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:58,760
 All right.

931
00:58:58,760 --> 00:58:59,760
 Commissioner Villarreal.

932
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,320
 Does this only pertain to long-term rentals?

933
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,320
 Correct, not short-term rentals.

934
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:05,320
 Yes.

935
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,320
 Thank you.

936
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:07,320
 Commissioner Perot.

937
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:08,320
 Thank you, Chair.

938
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:14,840
 Just a thought occurs to me and I may be answering my own question in my mind, so if you'll forgive

939
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:23,440
 me, but bag of tools, there's landlord maintenance, there are other programs to be able to take

940
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,880
 existing properties and allow them to continue being used if there was fear of them dilapidating

941
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,040
 and not being able to be habitable.

942
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:32,720
 Understand that.

943
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,820
 Land banking, another tool.

944
00:59:36,820 --> 00:59:46,160
 I guess is the idea that if the city has more control over those programs that we can make

945
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:53,800
 an active decision as far as for particular property F, is it more beneficial as far as

946
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:58,140
 the number of units you get, that sort of thing, to rehab this structure or just buy

947
00:59:58,140 --> 01:00:00,280
 it and land bank it and redevelop it?

948
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:01,280
 Does that make sense?

949
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:02,280
 Yes.

950
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:03,280
 Yeah.

951
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,280
 I think you're on the right track there.

952
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,280
 Yeah.

953
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:06,960
 We do have that toolbox for different types of projects like Denton Affordable Housing

954
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,080
 Corporation right now does a lot of rehabs and that's historically what they've done

955
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,080
 for I think the past 20 years.

956
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,280
 I know that they'd love to get into the development space.

957
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:23,600
 So what we're looking at is trying to make it possible for any new development that comes

958
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:32,800
 into Denton to have at least some affordability, whether that's I'm building a neighborhood

959
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,720
 and I want this setback reduction or whatever it's going to be and so I'm going to take,

960
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,560
 I'm going to set aside 10 of these for low income potential homeowners, right?

961
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:48,120
 Or if it's a development like this or if it's a rehab, whatever it's going to be, we want

962
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,120
 to seat at that table and for some cases it's going to be really small, like a setback reduction.

963
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:59,160
 In some cases, if we want to build say supportive housing or housing for really low income folks,

964
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,640
 that project might need more support and so that's when we talk about things like land

965
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:03,640
 banking.

966
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:04,640
 Okay.

967
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:05,640
 Thank you.

968
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:06,640
 Yeah.

969
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,640
 Do I have any other questions here?

970
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,840
 Cool.

971
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:17,280
 Lastly here, access to information, we do want to start an eviction prevention and education

972
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:23,840
 program so this will be guidance documents, outreach, training assistance, possibly some

973
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:30,440
 grant funding to deter eviction right now or not right now, in the future.

974
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,240
 Additionally, interactive online mapping, this is already complete.

975
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,200
 This is our map or at least one version of it.

976
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:43,240
 This is a map that was conducted previously or assembled previously of those vacant or

977
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,280
 underutilized lots for potential development.

978
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,400
 Yes.

979
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,280
 And then the landlord education program.

980
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,520
 This is really just partnering with that, with Denton Housing Authority to talk to landlords

981
01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:01,760
 and explain what an amazing opportunity accepting a housing choice voucher can be and how that

982
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:07,460
 can impact the tenant using that voucher and your community in a really positive way.

983
01:02:07,460 --> 01:02:10,080
 And so that's our last strategy there.

984
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,840
 Do I have any questions here?

985
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,160
 Yes.

986
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,520
 So everyone has about 10 seconds to look at this and then I'm going to ask everyone to

987
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,600
 close their eyes and write it from memory.

988
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:28,080
 Sorry, I really like making that joke.

989
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:32,240
 This is just a brief overview to give you a little bit of scope.

990
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:39,500
 So you can see here at the top, we estimated the need at about 2,300 units of rental housing

991
01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:48,080
 by 2030 and then about 1,900 affordable homeownership opportunities by 2030.

992
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,120
 Our goal estimates we are trying to meet about 1,200 of those units on the rental side and

993
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,440
 then about 500 units on the homeownership side.

994
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,120
 Now, of course, these estimates were made pre the bond funding.

995
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,680
 So we're hoping to go a little bit above and beyond.

996
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,360
 But this is how we currently have it set up.

997
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:10,760
 This is how it was estimated with the remaining being up to the market to meet.

998
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,380
 Do I have any questions here?

999
01:03:14,380 --> 01:03:16,080
 Cool.

1000
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,760
 This is a projected timeline.

1001
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,120
 If it is a bit small, I promise it will be sent out.

1002
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:28,400
 But I'll just kind of go over quickly the things that we see most upcoming.

1003
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,220
 Fiscal year 24 is when we will start actually seeing our bond funding.

1004
01:03:32,220 --> 01:03:37,960
 And so right now, we're trying to get as much set up prior to that as possible.

1005
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,920
 So we're focusing on those infill projects, small home communities and ADUs, we're working

1006
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,160
 on those.

1007
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,720
 We are also always and forever working on marketing and outreach, but that's a little

1008
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,520
 bit less to do with you.

1009
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:56,080
 And then right now, we are working on that developer incentive toolbox, one project of

1010
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:01,880
 which being that DDC amendment with procedures for incentives for affordable housing.

1011
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,720
 And then I think that's most of the things I wanted to talk about.

1012
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:10,520
 We do also have a housing trust fund, which is essentially just the mechanism for which

1013
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,240
 we will be doing all of these activities right now.

1014
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,400
 We're drafting our policies and procedures, which will likely eventually come to you for

1015
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:18,400
 review as well.

1016
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:22,280
 Do I have any questions here?

1017
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:23,280
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1018
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:28,800
 Just really quick, and this is going back to the strat number one.

1019
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,520
 Other communities that have embraced small home communities and ADUs, do they have mechanisms

1020
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:38,920
 in place to keep or to attempt to keep as much as they can within the long-term rental

1021
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:39,920
 stock?

1022
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,000
 That's a very good question.

1023
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,360
 I don't have an answer off the top of my head, Danny, do you?

1024
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,320
 I can do that research and get back to you on how those maintain it.

1025
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,720
 One thing I will say is a lot of times smaller homes are going to be what we call naturally

1026
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,440
 occurring affordable housing.

1027
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:05,000
 So they might be subsidized at the start, but a smaller home is almost in most cases

1028
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,120
 going to be more affordable than a big home, especially for a household that doesn't need

1029
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,200
 a big home.

1030
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,200
 And so in terms of legal mechanisms to keep those affordable, I'll do further research.

1031
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:20,160
 But part of what we like about small homes is that over time they're sustainably naturally

1032
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,040
 occurring affordable housing, how that helps.

1033
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,480
 I know it does, and I bring that up just because I had a conversation with folks at the city

1034
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:33,080
 of Hurst and the city of Ulysses, and their concerns around ADUs were are those just going

1035
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:39,240
 to slip immediately into STR territory?

1036
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:43,400
 And I think that's where we're encouraging the incentive process overall, because that

1037
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,800
 incentive process gives us that mechanism to require affordability for a period of time

1038
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,960
 by agreement, whatever that agreement is, and for however long it might be.

1039
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:57,160
 So for the ADU program, for example, the more subsidy we might put in to help that ADU get

1040
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:04,240
 created and be affordable, the longer we would make that affordability requirement.

1041
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:08,160
 I would just add, the key thing that Danny is mentioning is it's an agreement, it's like

1042
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:09,600
 a development agreement, right?

1043
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:14,940
 So it's a contract and has enforceable provisions associated with it to ensure that it's meeting

1044
01:06:14,940 --> 01:06:21,200
 the projected goals that Danny's team has for that particular program that's being implemented.

1045
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:25,280
 And just to be clear, that's what we already do within our minor repair and our home renovation

1046
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,560
 and restructuring program.

1047
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:32,960
 So we are confident that we have the tools that would make that requirement enforceable.

1048
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,160
 And on that note, that's always negotiable then, that term length.

1049
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,600
 Is there a minimum?

1050
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,120
 So these are programs that we're still building out.

1051
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,000
 Like I said, we're actively working on those policies and procedures for how this will

1052
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,600
 work in practice.

1053
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:46,600
 We will have minimums.

1054
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,560
 Neither of us are in the business of giving things away for free.

1055
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,040
 But yes, of course, we are trying to meet people where they are and see, well, what

1056
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:54,040
 do you need for the project?

1057
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,200
 What are we going to ask from that?

1058
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,640
 And so it will be customizable, but we're going to have minimums.

1059
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,200
 Did I answer that?

1060
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:03,760
 Yes, you did.

1061
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:04,760
 Okay.

1062
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:05,760
 All right.

1063
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:06,760
 Thank you.

1064
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:07,760
 All right.

1065
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:08,760
 Any other questions here?

1066
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:09,760
 Okay.

1067
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,320
 Well, that was it.

1068
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:13,320
 You can learn more.

1069
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:14,320
 You can visit our website.

1070
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,880
 You can read the entire Affordable Housing Strategic Toolkit.

1071
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:22,000
 I think that's probably the best way to spend your Valentine's Day evening.

1072
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,520
 And if you have additional questions, you can always email me.

1073
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:26,520
 My email's right there.

1074
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,520
 Thank you very much for your time.

1075
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:29,520
 Yes.

1076
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:30,520
 Sorry.

1077
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:31,520
 I know we want to eat dinner too.

1078
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:32,520
 Sorry.

1079
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:37,600
 Have you guys done much outreach to the nonprofits in the community that would be addressing

1080
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,880
 these and having conversations with them, making sure that they're so...

1081
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:41,880
 Yes.

1082
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,560
 We speak on a daily basis, I would say.

1083
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:44,560
 Awesome.

1084
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:45,560
 Perfect.

1085
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:46,560
 Thank you.

1086
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:47,560
 Thank you.

1087
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:48,560
 Thank you, Chair.

1088
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:49,560
 A couple things.

1089
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,960
 One, I think on the slide that you had with...

1090
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,440
 It's not related to the slide, it just occurred to me then when you had the pretty picture

1091
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:57,440
 of the...

1092
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:58,440
 I like pretty pictures.

1093
01:07:58,440 --> 01:07:59,440
 Yeah.

1094
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,400
 The one, the newer development that was somewhere in the Metroplex.

1095
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:03,400
 In El Paso, yes.

1096
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:04,400
 Thank you.

1097
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:05,400
 El Paso.

1098
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,400
 That's very Southwest Metroplex.

1099
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,400
 Yes.

1100
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:15,520
 You mentioned that there's significant costs that are incurred for in the pre-development

1101
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,600
 timeframe.

1102
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:23,760
 Can you help us understand how much impact that timeline has on sort of the cost to build

1103
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:24,760
 the housing?

1104
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,080
 Dana's going to be able to give you a better answer there.

1105
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:28,080
 Yeah.

1106
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:29,080
 Yeah, absolutely.

1107
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,240
 I mean, everything that we're doing within the Affordable Housing Strategic Toolkit is

1108
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,280
 about bringing that development cost down in the variety of ways.

1109
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,720
 So the goal is to reduce the cost.

1110
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:44,320
 So when you're talking about the pre-development timeframe, it's the length of time that someone's

1111
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:49,960
 holding on to property, has those costs along the way until it's developed, right?

1112
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,080
 Whether it's opportunity costs, meaning they're not using it yet and so they're losing out

1113
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,800
 on the revenue that the property could be producing.

1114
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,840
 And then so many other impacts from the design phase all the way through that, those costs

1115
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,360
 are being incurred without incurring revenue and exchange.

1116
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,840
 So any way that we can shorten that process is helpful, right?

1117
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,640
 And that's certainly what we're looking to incentivize.

1118
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:11,640
 Okay.

1119
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:19,280
 And then on the subject of ... I guess I'm trying to combine the previous presentation

1120
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:26,720
 with this presentation of we have lots of needs for housing and that sort of thing.

1121
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:33,320
 You mentioned that that affordability need you were hoping would be met, some with subsidized

1122
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:39,560
 units that the city would have control over, some with market action, LITEX and that sort

1123
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:47,840
 of thing, is help me understand how development that occurs at market rate within the city

1124
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:52,000
 affects what our needs are for affordability and that sort of thing.

1125
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,000
 Yeah.

1126
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,100
 It's a bit like every tool we can throw at it and that is one tool that we need.

1127
01:09:56,100 --> 01:09:59,240
 So development in general is beneficial, right?

1128
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:05,960
 Even if it's higher cost or luxury housing, one, it will reduce the demand on the lower

1129
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:10,120
 cost housing because people have access who can afford to pay for it with more housing

1130
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:11,440
 that they're interested in.

1131
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:17,360
 Over time that housing also becomes naturally occurring affordable as it ages, right?

1132
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:22,000
 So it's not a bad thing for any development to help with just generally the supply and

1133
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,000
 demand, right?

1134
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,760
 The higher the supply, the better we can affect the demand in general.

1135
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,600
 So it's great we're looking for that issue.

1136
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:33,280
 And you mentioned it and we mentioned it the last time.

1137
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:38,960
 Everything we want to do is to make sure that any housing development comes in has an opportunity

1138
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,200
 for us to create affordability within it.

1139
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,880
 It is exactly how this tool is designed to incentivize the private market so that we're

1140
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:49,320
 not having to invest a huge amount of city funds to make these things happen that we

1141
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:54,480
 can just incentivize to then balance out and then we create opportunity across the city

1142
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:56,480
 and not just concentrate in another area.

1143
01:10:56,480 --> 01:10:58,960
 So it's a very important part of the conversation.

1144
01:10:58,960 --> 01:10:59,960
 Thank you.

1145
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:01,280
 I'm really looking forward to this.

1146
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:06,320
 I think we've got the crack team here and I think we'll look back 15 years from now

1147
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,200
 and say, wow, look what we've done.

1148
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:17,360
 I will say the thought that, you know, there'll be amendments and that sort of thing coming.

1149
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:26,280
 My preference is for relief to be granted in cases where that relief quite honestly

1150
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,840
 is just not politically palatable unless it's affordable housing, right?

1151
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:37,760
 Whereas if it's relief that we all agree is reasonable to allow market raised housing

1152
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:46,240
 to also have, then all that does is reduce the cost to build all of our housing, right?

1153
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:47,240
 To a certain extent.

1154
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,800
 So I'll be looking forward to seeing what those things are and seeing that come forward.

1155
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:52,800
 Thank you.

1156
01:11:52,800 --> 01:12:00,000
 Do I have any other questions before folks get to eat?

1157
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,000
 Okay.

1158
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:02,000
 Thank you very much for your time.

1159
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,000
 Thank you for the wealth of information.

1160
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,000
 Of course.

1161
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,600
 Will you be sending us this presentation as well just like the other?

1162
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:07,600
 Absolutely.

1163
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,600
 Excellent.

1164
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:09,600
 Thank you.

1165
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:10,600
 Thank you.

1166
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:11,600
 Appreciate it.

1167
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:12,600
 With that concludes our work session.

1168
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:17,920
 I will adjourn us at 616 and we will reconvene in council chambers as close to 630 as we

1169
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:24,360
 can.

1170
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,840
 Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for

1171
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:32,240
 Wednesday, February 14th, 2024.

1172
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:33,240
 Thanks for your patience.

1173
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,240
 With the quorum present, I will call us to order at 639 p.m.

1174
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:41,700
 Let the record show that Commissioner Thaggart is absent from today's meeting.

1175
01:12:41,700 --> 01:12:46,040
 First order on business on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas

1176
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:47,040
 Flags.

1177
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:54,520
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

1178
01:12:54,520 --> 01:13:00,960
 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

1179
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:14,240
 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

1180
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:17,240
 Thank you.

1181
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:23,300
 Next item on our agenda is the consider approval of our minutes from January 24th.

1182
01:13:23,300 --> 01:13:24,300
 Commissioner Smith.

1183
01:13:24,300 --> 01:13:26,960
 I make a motion to approve.

1184
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:27,960
 Commissioner Cole.

1185
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:28,960
 Second.

1186
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,680
 You've got a first and a second for approval and discussion.

1187
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:32,680
 Okay.

1188
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:40,740
 Let's vote on the board, please.

1189
01:13:40,740 --> 01:13:45,340
 That motion will carry 5-0.

1190
01:13:45,340 --> 01:13:48,120
 That will take us to our consent agenda for this evening.

1191
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:49,120
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1192
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,080
 I move approval.

1193
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:52,080
 Commissioner Cole.

1194
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:53,080
 Second.

1195
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,000
 You've got a second to approve the consent agenda.

1196
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:56,000
 Okay.

1197
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:05,960
 Let's vote on the board, please.

1198
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,560
 That motion carries 5-0.

1199
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:16,120
 That moves us to our items for individual consideration, first being 4A, FP240002.

1200
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,720
 Erin is here for presentation.

1201
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:26,000
 Good evening, Erin Stanley, assistant planner.

1202
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,000
 This is FP240002.

1203
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:37,600
 This is a final plot for the Denton Shady Shores edition, just north of North I-35E.

1204
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:42,160
 We previously recommended this for denial in your agendas.

1205
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:49,920
 We've satisfied all of their remaining comments, so now we are recommending approval.

1206
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:50,920
 Thank you, Erin.

1207
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:52,200
 Any questions for Erin?

1208
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:53,200
 Okay.

1209
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:54,200
 Thank you.

1210
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:55,200
 Commissioner Smith.

1211
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:56,200
 Make a motion to approve.

1212
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:57,200
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1213
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:58,200
 Second.

1214
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:59,200
 Okay.

1215
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,000
 There's a first and a second for approval, Ms. Platt.

1216
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,000
 Any discussion?

1217
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,000
 Okay.

1218
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:11,620
 Let's vote on the board, please.

1219
01:15:11,620 --> 01:15:13,120
 That motion carries 5-0.

1220
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:18,580
 That will take us to 4B, V230008.

1221
01:15:18,580 --> 01:15:20,160
 And Matt is here for presentation.

1222
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:25,160
 Good evening.

1223
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:35,520
 Good evening, commission.

1224
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:45,000
 I'm here to consider a subdivision variance request for a property, sorry, for a minor

1225
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:49,240
 plot that was brought into the city.

1226
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:56,720
 So here we see a map of the subject's property within northeast Denton as located in ETJ1,

1227
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:01,040
 about half a mile north of US 380.

1228
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:05,200
 Here we see the subject property zoomed a little more.

1229
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:11,880
 As you can see, it takes public access from North Trinity Road with state parkland just

1230
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,280
 to the north of it.

1231
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:22,480
 And then here is a brief glance at the aerial of the subject property.

1232
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:30,560
 So this variance request is for a property in the city of Denton's ETJ Division 1.

1233
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:35,880
 The minor plot associated with it was to create two lots.

1234
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:44,800
 One of these lots is sort of flag lot, which is the subject of the variance being requested.

1235
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:50,200
 The subject property is, according to the applicant, used for residential and some agricultural

1236
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:56,000
 purposes with the surrounding properties also being residential and then a state park to

1237
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,720
 the north.

1238
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:07,080
 As mentioned, the minor plot associated was to create two lots from the plot of land,

1239
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:10,920
 one of which is a flag lot, which is the variance of our four.

1240
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:14,080
 These lots both have direct access to a public street.

1241
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:20,760
 And then the homes and pond have been present on the property since the early 1980s according

1242
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,240
 to the applicant.

1243
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:31,600
 So the first request is in regard to the flagpole portion of the flag lot, proposed lot 1 in

1244
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:32,600
 the graphic.

1245
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:39,480
 The request is to increase the max flagpole length from our DDC requirement of 300 feet

1246
01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:42,440
 to a proposed length of 521 feet.

1247
01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:49,600
 And as you can see on the graphic, it shows where that 300 feet would be if it was to meet

1248
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,720
 our requirement.

1249
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,800
 And the second request is associated with the first.

1250
01:17:54,800 --> 01:18:01,880
 We have a requirement that for any flagpole portion greater than 150 feet is to have a

1251
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,240
 permanent turnaround.

1252
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:09,960
 And so their second subdivision variance request is an exemption or relief from that permanent

1253
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:12,760
 turnaround requirement.

1254
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:19,400
 And we did want to make a note that the proposed lot configuration has been reviewed by the

1255
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:24,080
 Sea of Denton Fire Department, and they did find it satisfactory for them to be able to

1256
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,760
 enter and exit in a forward manner.

1257
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:35,880
 Now I'm going to transition to the considerations and staff analysis for planning, zones, and

1258
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:36,880
 conditions evaluation.

1259
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:46,000
 There are four general requirements considered, the public safety, the particular hardship

1260
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:52,600
 due to physical conditions, whether or not it will vary from provisions of the comprehensive

1261
01:18:52,600 --> 01:19:02,000
 plan and other city documents, and when the actions of the request took place.

1262
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:05,720
 And I'll go through each of those individually.

1263
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:14,040
 So first consideration is that the request invariance is not anticipated to be detrimental

1264
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,440
 to public safety.

1265
01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:22,820
 As mentioned, Denton Fire Department reviewed it, and they would be able to access and leave

1266
01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:31,240
 in a safe manner with the current lot configuration, that there is enough space.

1267
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:42,680
 Also the land uses of the minor plot in question are not detrimental to the surrounding properties.

1268
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:50,520
 As for the physical conditions of the site, it is noted that the large pond near the front

1269
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:57,600
 of the proposed lot two does create a challenge for subsequent development and subdivision

1270
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,280
 of the lot.

1271
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,760
 Any development on it, as you can see in the graph, has been pushed towards the back of

1272
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,080
 the lot.

1273
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:13,520
 Therefore, this likely creates irregular-shaped lots in the case of subdivision.

1274
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:19,920
 And then finally, the topography of the pond and the slope does create limited space for

1275
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:25,960
 that turnaround requirement.

1276
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:33,600
 Third condition, if the subdivision variants are approved, they will not introduce design

1277
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:40,840
 standards that are incompatible with the goals of the comprehensive plan, or the DDC.

1278
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:46,600
 And then finally, the conditions on the property that are leading to the subdivariance requests,

1279
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:52,880
 such as that pond and homes, have been present on the site since the early 1980s, according

1280
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:59,360
 to the applicant, and so these are conditions in place prior to the DDC regulations that

1281
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:03,640
 they're seeking the subdivision variants from.

1282
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:11,880
 Therefore, staff recommends approval of those subdivision requests as they comply with the

1283
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:13,840
 Denton Development Code.

1284
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,400
 Any questions?

1285
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,440
 >> Thank you, ma'am.

1286
01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:19,440
 Any questions?

1287
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:22,000
 I do not see any.

1288
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:23,000
 Thank you very much.

1289
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:24,000
 >> No.

1290
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:25,000
 >> Commissioner Smith.

1291
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,000
 >> Make a motion to approve.

1292
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:27,000
 >> Commissioner Villarreal.

1293
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,000
 >> Second.

1294
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,400
 >> Okay, we've got a first and a second for approval.

1295
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:32,400
 Any discussion?

1296
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:33,400
 Okay.

1297
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:41,560
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1298
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:43,560
 That motion carries 5-0.

1299
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:48,840
 That will take us to 4C FP 24-0004.

1300
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:49,840
 Hello Julie.

1301
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:51,120
 >> Good evening.

1302
01:21:51,120 --> 01:22:00,400
 Julie Wyatt, principal planner.

1303
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:04,480
 This is a final plat for the Audreauke subdivision.

1304
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:09,240
 It's a single-family residential subdivision located on the south side of Audreau, just

1305
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,360
 east of Nottingham.

1306
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,840
 They do have some items that they do need to correct in order for it to meet the technical

1307
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:20,080
 requirements of the Denton Development Code, and therefore staff is recommending denial.

1308
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:25,280
 However, we have no objection to the requested extension to February 28th, and I'll be happy

1309
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,040
 to answer any questions.

1310
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:28,840
 >> Thank you, Julie.

1311
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:29,840
 Questions for Julie?

1312
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,320
 I do not see any.

1313
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:33,320
 Thank you.

1314
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:34,320
 Commissioner Villarreal.

1315
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:39,360
 >> I move approval of the extension request to a date certain of February 28th, 2024.

1316
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:40,360
 >> Great.

1317
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:41,360
 Commissioner Cole.

1318
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:42,360
 >> Second.

1319
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:46,040
 >> We have a first and a second to grant the extension request to a date certain of February

1320
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,040
 28th, 2024.

1321
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,280
 Any discussion?

1322
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:59,000
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1323
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,320
 That motion carries 5-0.

1324
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,440
 That will take us to our public hearings for the evening.

1325
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:09,920
 Our first is 5A, PD 23-0003.

1326
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:11,640
 Mia's making her way up for presentation.

1327
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:13,320
 I'll go ahead and open the public hearing.

1328
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:14,320
 Hi.

1329
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:17,440
 >> Good evening, Chair, members of the commission.

1330
01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:22,880
 Mia Hines, senior planner, presentation pulled up.

1331
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:30,080
 This item is a request to rezone approximately 18.3 acres from MN, SC, and R3 to a new plan

1332
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:31,360
 development.

1333
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:37,600
 The applicant has proposed to subdivide those 18.3 acres into two sub-districts, one with

1334
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:43,760
 basically a base zoning of MN that only permits multifamily land uses and sub-district B with

1335
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:49,960
 a base zoning of SC that permits a variety of commercial land uses, specifically some

1336
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,760
 restaurant, retail, and potentially a bank facility.

1337
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:59,280
 The site itself is located at the northwest corner of US 380 East University Drive and

1338
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:00,620
 Old North Road.

1339
01:24:00,620 --> 01:24:05,240
 The future land use map designation for this site consists of both community mixed use

1340
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:11,360
 along the frontage of East University Road and moderate residential to the north of that.

1341
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:18,480
 Preventing land uses include single family residential to the north, existing multifamily

1342
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:24,600
 residential land use to the east, northeast, to the further to the east across from Old

1343
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:29,640
 North Road are some office developments, professional office developments.

1344
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:35,760
 To the south across East University Road, US 380 is a religious assembly.

1345
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:42,080
 To the west southwest is an existing drive-through restaurant and another religious assembly

1346
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:43,080
 facility.

1347
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:48,520
 As far as roadways surrounding the property, US 380 is a six-lane divided primary arterial,

1348
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:54,440
 and Old North Road to the east is a two-lane collector with on-street bike lanes.

1349
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:59,240
 Just a brief walkthrough of the development plan, again, we have the sub-district A with

1350
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,860
 a base zoning of MN.

1351
01:25:01,860 --> 01:25:06,480
 Within that sub-district A, the applicant is proposing a total of 279 residences.

1352
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:13,240
 Within sub-district B, again, that base zoning of SC, and within those commercial uses proposed

1353
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:18,000
 within that sub-district, the applicant is proposing restaurant, retail, and bank, totaling

1354
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,200
 approximately 33,000 square feet.

1355
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:25,280
 There are several points of access for ingress and egress onto this site.

1356
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:31,200
 The green circles represent vehicular access points and the blue circles represent pedestrian

1357
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,360
 connections and stubs.

1358
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:40,400
 The main point of access is here along East University Drive where are aligned with an

1359
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:46,920
 existing median cut, and then there are secondary access points to along East University Drive

1360
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:49,060
 and one along Old North Road.

1361
01:25:49,060 --> 01:25:56,400
 As far as pedestrian connectivity, they proposed to connect to a stub in front of the existing

1362
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,560
 restaurant to the east.

1363
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:08,120
 They are proposing to stub to the north along East University Drive and of course extend

1364
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:14,000
 the sidewalk across their frontage of East University and connect their extension to

1365
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,680
 the Old North piece as well.

1366
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:21,200
 Additionally, they are proposing an internal pedestrian connection or off-street pedestrian

1367
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:29,760
 connection to the north here directly tying to a HOA lot that is owned by the Old North

1368
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:35,720
 HOA residential, single-family residential subdivision.

1369
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:40,280
 Specifically regarding the sub-district A, the applicant is proposing four buildings

1370
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,440
 within that sub-district, again, 279 residences.

1371
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:46,160
 Vehicular parking space is appropriate.

1372
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:51,720
 Here you see asterisks within these notes on this presentation mark areas where the

1373
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:56,440
 applicant is requesting either a deviation or an alternative from the DDC.

1374
01:26:56,440 --> 01:27:04,520
 In this case, I've flagged vehicular parking as the applicant has requested a parking ratio

1375
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:12,600
 of 1.5 spaces per dwelling unit as opposed to what our DDC permits, which has actually

1376
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:18,640
 reduced the amount of surface parking that would be required for this site, again, really

1377
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:25,200
 promoting the pedestrian connectivity and access on this property.

1378
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:31,400
 They are, like I said before, proposing a 10-foot wide side path along Use 380, proposing

1379
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:38,140
 a total of 32% landscape coverage and 62% tree canopy coverage within this sub-district.

1380
01:27:38,140 --> 01:27:44,600
 They are imposing on themselves an 80-foot building setback to account for the context

1381
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:49,920
 sensitivity and to respect the distance and spacing to the existing single-family residential

1382
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:54,960
 subdivision to the north, whereas under the straight MN zoning district, there is no rear

1383
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:56,760
 yard setback that would be required.

1384
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:01,720
 There's some distance spacing that would be required based on the building height, but

1385
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:05,960
 in general there is, and based on the compatibility buffer that would be needed, but in general

1386
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:11,520
 there is no rear yard building setback, so that is an additional setback that they are

1387
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,480
 imposing as a part of this PD.

1388
01:28:13,480 --> 01:28:19,040
 Additionally, they are limiting their building height within this portion of the development

1389
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:24,160
 to 40 feet, whereas the max building height in the straight MN zoning district is 65 feet.

1390
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:29,240
 Again, that's to account for the context sensitivity, the surrounding or existing single-family

1391
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,320
 residential neighborhood to the north.

1392
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:37,160
 Sub-district amenities include an indoor clubhouse, outdoor pool, bocce ball court, and outdoor

1393
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:40,000
 seating.

1394
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:46,060
 Speaking to that compatibility buffer variation again, there is a minimum, they are proposing

1395
01:28:46,060 --> 01:28:52,120
 some alternatives again to account for context sensitivity as well as an existing easement

1396
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:58,200
 that is along the property lines that they share with the existing developments to the

1397
01:28:58,200 --> 01:28:59,200
 east.

1398
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:06,280
 In general, what they are providing is either substantially greater than what we require

1399
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:13,080
 per our base zoning compatibility buffer, or it's to again account for the trees not

1400
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:18,400
 being able to be planted within easements and work with the space that they have.

1401
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:23,720
 As far as use-specific standards, the applicant is requesting to be exempted from the minimum

1402
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:27,720
 12-foot wall height of the ground floor of the multifamily building facing the public

1403
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:28,720
 street.

1404
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:35,040
 They are still maintaining the pedestrian basically connections to those units facing

1405
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:41,240
 the street, but that overall 12-foot ceiling height would ultimately lead to an overall

1406
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:46,920
 higher building height, which again, respecting the context sensitivity, they are trying to

1407
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:48,600
 limit to 40 feet.

1408
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:54,260
 Again, the only permitted use within the sub-district is multifamily, and the elevations that they

1409
01:29:54,260 --> 01:29:59,480
 have provided is what they would have to adhere to under this existing plan development, which

1410
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:03,680
 from the south, the top images from the south is the view that we would see as we drive

1411
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:11,880
 along East University US 380, and then the image below that is the view from the north

1412
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:20,200
 that the old north residential subdivision would see, and those designs, and I think

1413
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:24,580
 the applicant may speak to this a little bit more, but those buildings are architecturally

1414
01:30:24,580 --> 01:30:32,080
 designed to limit the view point from the proposed multifamily buildings into the backyards

1415
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:37,440
 of the existing single-family building, so whether that be through balconies that aren't

1416
01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:41,840
 truly balconies to where you can't step out, or they're balconies that are sort of recessed

1417
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:48,680
 tucked in to where you can't really view over into those single-family yards.

1418
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:53,900
 As far as sub-district B, again, the base zoning of SC, seven buildings are proposed

1419
01:30:53,900 --> 01:30:59,520
 within this sub-district.

1420
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:04,520
 The development plan shows waterfront dining, whereas in the DDC, we require buildings within

1421
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:09,880
 the commercial district to be oriented around a plaza or framing a corner.

1422
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:17,080
 This essentially, they are wanting to count their waterfront feature as their plaza area

1423
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:21,240
 to, again, allow for the orientation of those buildings, and there are some renderings here

1424
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:27,960
 to provide any backup to sort of give you a better idea of what that might look like.

1425
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:35,960
 Landscape coverage is 67% tree canopy coverage as opposed to the 20% landscape coverage and

1426
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:42,400
 the 30% tree canopy coverage that is required under the base SC zoning district, a max building

1427
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:49,000
 height of 50 feet as opposed to the max building height of 55 feet that is required or that

1428
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:53,980
 would be permitted under the base zoning district of the SC, and again, a 10-foot wide side

1429
01:31:53,980 --> 01:32:00,000
 path is being provided along Old North Road and continuing into this sub-district along

1430
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,400
 US 380 as well.

1431
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:08,680
 So the images at the top here are the sort of architectural style of what the applicant

1432
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:13,460
 is proposing, that modern farmhouse design is what they would be tied to.

1433
01:32:13,460 --> 01:32:19,840
 The city can't regulate specific building material, but we can regulate architectural

1434
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:24,680
 compatibility, and so that's what we would look for when those building permits come

1435
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:28,880
 in and those elevations are finalized, we would look for something similar to these

1436
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:29,880
 images here.

1437
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:35,360
 As far as compatibility buffers, again, there is an easement where this property is adjacent

1438
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,640
 to the existing multifamily property.

1439
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:44,440
 So a 10-foot wide buffer with no trees south of that is what they are requesting, is what

1440
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:45,640
 staff is supporting.

1441
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:53,760
 And then the minimum lot size for the SC district is 10,000 square feet.

1442
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:58,640
 Within this sub-district, we are permitting that to drop down to 5,000 square feet.

1443
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:05,440
 And then further uses with higher intensity such as larger scale general retail facilities

1444
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:10,320
 would not be permitted within this sub-district, again, accounting for the context sensitivity

1445
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:12,440
 of this area.

1446
01:33:12,440 --> 01:33:16,320
 So we did weigh this request up against our general criteria for approval.

1447
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:20,440
 Specifically, I wanted to mention that the PD would allow for the development of the

1448
01:33:20,440 --> 01:33:26,080
 property as I've walked through those components, with land use as consistent with both the moderate

1449
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:30,160
 residential and community mixed use future land use map designations.

1450
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:34,600
 The property or the proposed deviations and alternatives to the DDC are, again, intended

1451
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:40,240
 to minimize adverse impacts to surrounding properties and require a complementary character.

1452
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:44,560
 And the proposed PD development standards and PD development plans provides for, ultimately

1453
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,720
 provides for a greater level of building design quality community amenities and connectivity

1454
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:54,360
 that would otherwise be required, wouldn't otherwise be required of the project if it

1455
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,360
 were not developed under this PD.

1456
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:01,240
 And just to show you a bit of that context sensitivity, the architectural style that

1457
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:05,600
 you see in the existing single family or adjacent single family residential neighborhood, as

1458
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:11,440
 well as that top image up there to the left is one of the office buildings that is across

1459
01:34:11,440 --> 01:34:18,640
 Old North, are all sort of in line with that modern farmhouse design, the pitched roof,

1460
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:21,680
 the type of building material used and so forth.

1461
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:25,660
 So this is complementary to that existing surrounding context.

1462
01:34:25,660 --> 01:34:31,120
 And then again, speaking to the components of the Denton Flume community mixed use designation

1463
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,640
 is intended to promote a mix of uses, commercial uses remaining predominant, which they are

1464
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:43,520
 along US 380, economically viable uses, higher density without impacting nearby single family

1465
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:44,520
 neighborhoods.

1466
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:49,760
 Again, this whole PD takes into account that context and then also raising the standard

1467
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:57,040
 of design that would otherwise be permitted under base.

1468
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:01,840
 The moderate residential is intended to apply to transition areas between existing single

1469
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:07,680
 family and mixed use or commercial areas, which the moderate residential or the residential

1470
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:10,600
 piece of the PD would.

1471
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:15,720
 Additionally, the moderate residential is intended to maintain a scale style and building

1472
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:19,440
 orientation to complement the prevailing character of its surroundings.

1473
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:22,980
 Again, that is the intent of this plan development.

1474
01:35:22,980 --> 01:35:29,360
 So we did perform public outreach via newspaper ads, property postings and mailed notices.

1475
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:34,140
 We did as of the writing or preparation of this presentation and writing of the report,

1476
01:35:34,140 --> 01:35:40,960
 we did receive one response in opposition, accounting for a total of 0.57% for the total

1477
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:47,820
 200 foot buffer and one response in favor, as well as an e-comment that came in later

1478
01:35:47,820 --> 01:35:55,440
 this afternoon supporting the project from, I believe, a member of the HOA, of that old

1479
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:57,760
 North community to the North.

1480
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:02,480
 So with that, staff is recommending approval of this request as it complies with the criteria

1481
01:36:02,480 --> 01:36:04,160
 of the DDC.

1482
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:07,320
 And at this time, I will take any questions or comments that you have.

1483
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:11,080
 The applicant is also here this evening to answer any comments or questions you have.

1484
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,960
 Before I take comments, I wanted to make a couple of corrections.

1485
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:18,880
 I'd said that the application was submitted in April 2023.

1486
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:23,780
 It was May of 2023, so just a month later, the timeline and the reason behind it is generally

1487
01:36:23,780 --> 01:36:24,780
 the same.

1488
01:36:24,780 --> 01:36:31,080
 Also, the applicant may speak to their choice to replace certain parts of the fence as opposed

1489
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:32,080
 to others.

1490
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:34,840
 I did look at the existing fence line.

1491
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:40,880
 Basically, east of that gas pipeline easement, the height is already at eight feet.

1492
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:43,240
 And then west of it, the height is at six feet.

1493
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:49,720
 So as far as the replacing the six feet that's on that east side with an eight foot, it would

1494
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:53,160
 just be matching the fence line that's on that side, and then the other side would be

1495
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:54,160
 six feet.

1496
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:55,160
 Okay.

1497
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:59,880
 I think we do have a question.

1498
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:00,880
 Commissioner Perot?

1499
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:01,880
 Thank you, Chair.

1500
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:02,880
 A couple of things.

1501
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:13,160
 One, I just noticed that the street trees along US 380 appear to be give or take 35

1502
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,760
 feet back from the curb.

1503
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:18,900
 Is that because it's a textile right of way?

1504
01:37:18,900 --> 01:37:22,920
 Why would the trees not be planted between the side path and the street?

1505
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:28,040
 So yeah, textile will not allow street trees to be planted in their right of way.

1506
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:33,440
 So the alternative is to still allow it to serve as the street tree, the function of

1507
01:37:33,440 --> 01:37:37,080
 the street tree, but it can't be planted in the right of way.

1508
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:38,080
 Okay.

1509
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:42,160
 So it's a street tree, not at the street.

1510
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:46,960
 And then just a couple of questions for clarification on the property to the north of this.

1511
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:50,440
 That's zoned R6, I believe.

1512
01:37:50,440 --> 01:37:57,400
 Can you remind us both what the height limitations are and what residential uses are permitted

1513
01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:59,720
 by right in R6?

1514
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:05,120
 Primarily single family residential uses are permitted in R6.

1515
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:09,440
 I do believe there are some permissions for that middle housing.

1516
01:38:09,440 --> 01:38:13,520
 So the duplexes and triplexes and maybe some SUPs are required for those.

1517
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,160
 I'd have to double check.

1518
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:18,600
 If you wouldn't, if you don't mind, I can double check that and get that answered back

1519
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:19,600
 to you.

1520
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:24,000
 And then the maximum building height, I believe is 40 feet within that R6.

1521
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,960
 Thank you.

1522
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:29,320
 Getting back to the fence thing.

1523
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:32,080
 So I think my thing was with the wording.

1524
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:37,840
 So it talks about the developer shall replace the six foot fence with regard to these, these

1525
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:41,520
 specific lots, or reimburse the property owner.

1526
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,040
 So that's where I was confused.

1527
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:47,680
 Is it an either or, and maybe the applicant can speak better to that, but that language

1528
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:49,080
 is very strange to me.

1529
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:52,940
 They can, and we can adjust the language also, but they can speak to that.

1530
01:38:52,940 --> 01:38:57,680
 The, the, from what we would be looking at from staff's point of view is that the fence

1531
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:02,080
 is replaced with an eight foot fence, but the applicant can speak to that.

1532
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:03,080
 Okay.

1533
01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:04,080
 Thank you.

1534
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:06,800
 Any other questions for me at this time?

1535
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:07,800
 Sure.

1536
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:08,800
 Tina, go ahead.

1537
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:13,520
 And Mia, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was looking at the language in the PD.

1538
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:17,160
 The, the other reason why we've structured it the way it is in the plan development district

1539
01:39:17,160 --> 01:39:20,280
 is to ensure that that happens by tying it to the CEO.

1540
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:25,160
 So it allows for either development to get under construction, but before it's completed,

1541
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:26,760
 the fence issue has to be addressed.

1542
01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:30,760
 And since that was something that I believe the applicant negotiated with the neighborhood,

1543
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:34,000
 hence why we wanted to ensure that there was an enforcement mechanism provided within the

1544
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:35,000
 plan development district.

1545
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:38,320
 So I know that's not something that you all normally see, but we at least wanted to make

1546
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,040
 sure that there was an enforceable provision within there.

1547
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:42,040
 Right.

1548
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:47,280
 So my question remains that who, who are you enforcing it upon the property owner?

1549
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:52,320
 If the applicant ends up reimbursing that, I'm just confused again by the language of

1550
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:53,720
 who's responsible.

1551
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:55,480
 It's the responsibility of the developer.

1552
01:39:55,480 --> 01:39:59,280
 So the developer either needs to replace the fence or reimburse the property owners for

1553
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:03,400
 their fence, reimburse the property owners for their fence.

1554
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:04,400
 Is that correct Mia?

1555
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:05,400
 Yeah.

1556
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:06,400
 Okay.

1557
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:07,400
 That's how I was interpreting the provision and the language.

1558
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:08,400
 Yeah.

1559
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:13,000
 It would seem like we should have like a congruent, congruent fence, not different people being

1560
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:14,960
 in charge of replacing their fence.

1561
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:18,360
 Anyway, we can talk about that further.

1562
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:20,200
 Thank you very much.

1563
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:21,680
 I do have a couple of cards in front of me.

1564
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:22,840
 The first one being the applicant.

1565
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:29,040
 I will have Amy Bissett come up here and give us presentation.

1566
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:30,040
 Good evening.

1567
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:31,040
 Good evening.

1568
01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:32,040
 I got it.

1569
01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:33,040
 I can find it.

1570
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:34,040
 Thank you.

1571
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:35,040
 Good evening commissioners.

1572
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:40,760
 Amy Bissett, 97 Land Company, 109 North Elm, Denton 76201.

1573
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:42,120
 I'm glad to see you this evening.

1574
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:49,720
 If you'll give me just a moment, I'll pull up my presentation.

1575
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:50,720
 All right.

1576
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:54,160
 So I did watch the work session this evening and want to start by addressing a few of the

1577
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:58,840
 questions and comments that were brought up during that work session.

1578
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:02,860
 Since Commissioner Ellis, you started with the question related to the fence.

1579
01:41:02,860 --> 01:41:04,900
 Let's go there first.

1580
01:41:04,900 --> 01:41:08,400
 So the majority of the fences today are eight foot fences.

1581
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,700
 There are a handful that are six foot.

1582
01:41:11,700 --> 01:41:17,920
 The reason that we originally wrote that flexibility in there is because there are some trees along

1583
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:23,960
 those fence lines and we didn't want to force a tree or force a fence replacement in a scenario

1584
01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:29,240
 where perhaps a homeowner would rather keep a tree than replace their fence.

1585
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:31,680
 And so we were trying to build in some flexibility.

1586
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:36,880
 However, I do tend to agree with you that that language could be tweaked a little bit

1587
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:41,720
 to clean it up from a land use and zoning standpoint.

1588
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:45,320
 That's the way that it's written in our memorandum of understanding with the neighborhood, which

1589
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:47,400
 I'll talk more about here in a little bit.

1590
01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:53,280
 So there's a commitment that's been made either way, whether or how it's codified in the PD

1591
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:54,280
 standards.

1592
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:58,640
 Commissioner Pruitt, or the question of what the vote was originally when we were here

1593
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:01,240
 in September of 2022, you were correct.

1594
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:02,600
 It was six zero.

1595
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:09,000
 I will walk through that chronology of what has occurred since then in just a moment.

1596
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:16,280
 I will say that had we gone to city council shortly after we had, then the option of doing

1597
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:23,200
 the PD light or the text amended PD would have been available to us and we might have

1598
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:26,880
 shortened the length of time before coming back before you all.

1599
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:34,680
 But by the time that changed, we were deep into design and into commitments with the

1600
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:40,160
 neighbors that we felt like needed to be honored in terms of just making sure that they got

1601
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:46,120
 exactly what they were seeing when we got back here today.

1602
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:49,120
 Chair Ellis, your question about was neighborhood engagement done?

1603
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:50,120
 Yes.

1604
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:53,880
 And I'm going to go into that in some more detail here in a little bit.

1605
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:58,280
 And I think that covers pretty much everything.

1606
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:00,900
 If I haven't covered it, I'm going to here in just a moment.

1607
01:43:00,900 --> 01:43:04,440
 So before I get started, I do want to let you all know that I brought me a bunch of

1608
01:43:04,440 --> 01:43:07,880
 Valentine's dates for everyone with me tonight.

1609
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:10,800
 I have Matt Swedenberg with Stonehawk in the audience.

1610
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,120
 He's going to come up and speak alongside me here in a moment.

1611
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:15,800
 I have Eric Earnshaw.

1612
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:17,440
 He is our architect.

1613
01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:24,400
 Mac McKee is our civil engineer and Michael Plasky is our landscape architect and Steve

1614
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:27,620
 Shatner is representing the development on the commercial side.

1615
01:43:27,620 --> 01:43:32,200
 So if you have any questions for any of them, they're here available.

1616
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:37,120
 So I do want to walk through the overall timeline very briefly, just so you have a feel for

1617
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:41,280
 what we have been doing since you saw us almost a year and a half ago.

1618
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:46,320
 Our initial zoning submittal was in March of 2022, so almost two years ago.

1619
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:48,680
 We held our first neighborhood meeting in June of 2022.

1620
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:50,520
 It was a virtual meeting.

1621
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:57,000
 We mailed out to everyone within 500 feet and we reached out to the HOA.

1622
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:03,420
 Between that virtual first neighborhood meeting and when we saw you all in September of 2022,

1623
01:44:03,420 --> 01:44:09,080
 we had some ongoing conversations with the HOA, but generally we weren't sensing opposition.

1624
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:14,640
 It was, can you help us with this gas pipeline easement issue with our fence and a couple

1625
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,580
 of other specific things.

1626
01:44:17,580 --> 01:44:21,960
 After the planning and zoning commission meeting in September, there were some of the neighbors

1627
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:28,340
 who had not been involved in some of the previous discussions with the HOA that were particularly

1628
01:44:28,340 --> 01:44:33,520
 affected by the closeness of one of the buildings.

1629
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:38,840
 So we held a second neighborhood meeting between PNZ and city council and that was opened up

1630
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:41,560
 to everybody within the HOA.

1631
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:45,500
 And then we went to city council like the following week.

1632
01:44:45,500 --> 01:44:52,560
 So there was a considerable amount of opposition that rose between PNZ and city council.

1633
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:56,740
 And so at that point in time, council felt like it was best if we went back and looked

1634
01:44:56,740 --> 01:45:00,400
 at this in a planned development perspective.

1635
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:05,200
 I do want to brag for a moment on both the buyer of this property and the seller, the

1636
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:10,400
 multifamily developer and the commercial developer for being here two years later and for making

1637
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:12,680
 a commitment to the neighborhood that they have.

1638
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:17,600
 It's been a pleasure to get to represent this project.

1639
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:22,480
 So our original plan really only was to rezone the piece of what you see here in yellow and

1640
01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:25,700
 it was to rezone from SC to MN.

1641
01:45:25,700 --> 01:45:29,240
 So it wasn't really bordering the existing single family homes.

1642
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:33,960
 And so the notification was not as broad as it might have otherwise been.

1643
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:39,600
 I just want to point out what was there before and while we knew the commercial would develop

1644
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:44,240
 and we knew essentially what it would look like, it was not included in our planned development

1645
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:48,160
 because it was intended to come at a later date.

1646
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:54,400
 And so we were just trying to facilitate the multifamily piece at that point in time.

1647
01:45:54,400 --> 01:46:00,400
 After city council directed us to go back and basically create a planned development,

1648
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:05,000
 the HAOA took it upon themselves to appoint a steering committee.

1649
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:09,480
 They formed that steering committee in November and reached out to us and said we have a steering

1650
01:46:09,480 --> 01:46:13,080
 committee that's ready to negotiate with the developer.

1651
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:18,840
 We held three neighborhood meetings with them between December and February and we entered

1652
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:24,800
 into a written memorandum of understanding with them February 15th of 2023, so a year

1653
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:25,800
 ago tomorrow.

1654
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:35,240
 And I'm going to pass around a copy of those with your permission just so you have that.

1655
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:40,000
 There are a number of terms outlined in that memorandum, but we essentially outlined those

1656
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:45,740
 prior to going into the full PD design so that we knew that we generally had an understanding

1657
01:46:45,740 --> 01:46:52,640
 and a project that would work with the surrounding neighborhood before diving into the full PD

1658
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:56,840
 design because that is a lot of time and effort.

1659
01:46:56,840 --> 01:47:00,540
 Three months later we made our PD submittal, that's the amount of time that it took us

1660
01:47:00,540 --> 01:47:06,680
 to prepare the plans from there, and we entered into a staff review period.

1661
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:10,620
 We held a neighborhood meeting in June of this past year, and when I say neighborhood

1662
01:47:10,620 --> 01:47:14,400
 meeting I mean with the steering committee, but then they would go back and report back

1663
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,600
 to the entire HOA.

1664
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:22,360
 After we got scheduled for public hearing we held one final meeting with them on February

1665
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:26,440
 1st and now here we are today.

1666
01:47:26,440 --> 01:47:33,240
 So we do have a zoning plan that addresses both the multifamily and the commercial sides

1667
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:34,240
 of the project.

1668
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:39,440
 I will not go into any detail associated with it because Mia went into all of that detail,

1669
01:47:39,440 --> 01:47:43,440
 but what I do want to do is point out a few of the elements that were committed to in

1670
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:45,560
 the MOU that you have before you.

1671
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:51,760
 There were 10 commitments that were made.

1672
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:57,200
 This aerial that you have in front of you, some of the main ones were the minimum setbacks.

1673
01:47:57,200 --> 01:48:01,880
 We have written into the PD an 80-foot minimum setback, but buildings two and four are committed

1674
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:09,520
 to 90 feet actually, and then the buildings three and four, which are the closest two

1675
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:16,980
 to the neighborhood, have additional facade treatments to help with visual buffering.

1676
01:48:16,980 --> 01:48:21,500
 The building four, we agreed on a building orientation that had the least amount of windows

1677
01:48:21,500 --> 01:48:28,760
 facing north, and agreed to screen patios on the second and third floors and to put

1678
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:33,280
 Juliette balconies to false balconies on building three.

1679
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:39,480
 In addition, we do have enhanced landscaping in an area that has fewer trees than any place

1680
01:48:39,480 --> 01:48:41,560
 else along that fence line.

1681
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:48,920
 So we've agreed to upsize the size of trees within that area and provide enhanced landscaping.

1682
01:48:48,920 --> 01:48:56,360
 I shared with you the compatibility buffer and the additional width of that.

1683
01:48:56,360 --> 01:49:02,680
 We've also agreed to some things such as the closest point of the building three only has

1684
01:49:02,680 --> 01:49:07,240
 a single row of parking in front of it rather than a double row.

1685
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:11,560
 We've provided this pedestrian connectivity, so this is a gas pipeline easement, which

1686
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:14,440
 is why that wrought iron fence is there.

1687
01:49:14,440 --> 01:49:19,520
 That's the only fence that the gas pipeline company would permit the HOA to put up.

1688
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:20,520
 They have a gate.

1689
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:27,120
 It's a gated access, and we've provided pedestrian connectivity from that gated access down into

1690
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:30,000
 the commercial development.

1691
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:35,000
 We also worked hard to provide architectural compatibility with the existing neighborhood,

1692
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:37,480
 which is adorable if you've ever driven over there.

1693
01:49:37,480 --> 01:49:42,480
 It's one of the cutest neighborhoods in Denton, and we've committed to that architectural

1694
01:49:42,480 --> 01:49:48,960
 compatibility both in the building elevations you see on the multifamily side as well as

1695
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:53,200
 the modern farmhouse style for the commercial side.

1696
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:55,240
 Here are a few project renderings here.

1697
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:59,920
 This one shows the commercial in front of the multifamily that wraps around it, just

1698
01:49:59,920 --> 01:50:06,320
 so you get a feel for the scale and the architecture.

1699
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:11,520
 And I'm not going to go through this zoning comparison between what the first zoning change

1700
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:13,480
 included versus the new PD.

1701
01:50:13,480 --> 01:50:17,960
 I think that we've covered that pretty well, but I do want to ask Matt Swedenberg to come

1702
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:25,640
 up here with Stonehawk and just speak a little bit about his company and their intentions

1703
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:27,080
 for the multifamily side.

1704
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:28,080
 Thank you.

1705
01:50:28,080 --> 01:50:29,080
 Hey, everyone.

1706
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:37,600
 Matt Swedenberg, 7060 Arboreal Drive, Dallas, Texas, 75231.

1707
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:42,240
 I work for the developers, Stonehawk Capital Partners.

1708
01:50:42,240 --> 01:50:47,880
 We are a multifamily developer, class A multifamily developer out of Dallas.

1709
01:50:47,880 --> 01:50:56,460
 We do deals across the state and DFW, Austin, San Antonio, Midland.

1710
01:50:56,460 --> 01:51:03,440
 We pride ourselves on the level of quality that we put into our product, specifically

1711
01:51:03,440 --> 01:51:06,860
 in the amenities, the finish out.

1712
01:51:06,860 --> 01:51:18,680
 We provide pool courtyard, gym, just a quality residence for our tenants.

1713
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:25,720
 And I just want to say it's been a long journey getting back here, but we've had the pleasure

1714
01:51:25,720 --> 01:51:32,560
 of getting to know a lot of folks in the city, specifically the neighborhood behind us.

1715
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:40,000
 And I'm happy to say that we have come this far with them and excited to move forward

1716
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:41,560
 with the project.

1717
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:48,520
 So aside from that, here to answer any questions, and I think we have our whole team here as

1718
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:54,200
 well to answer any questions that you have, so that's all from my side.

1719
01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:55,920
 Thank you.

1720
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:58,840
 Any questions thus far?

1721
01:51:58,840 --> 01:51:59,840
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1722
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:04,120
 Thank you, Chair.

1723
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:08,000
 As you mentioned, it's taken a long time to get here.

1724
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:12,560
 Do you expect the total cost of this project to be greater now than it would have been

1725
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:20,040
 if you were able to move forward in winter of 2022?

1726
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:22,760
 I would say yes.

1727
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:31,880
 That's partly market-driven, partly the qualifications that we've kind of put on the site, so I'd

1728
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:34,720
 say in general, yes.

1729
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:41,540
 Not a crazy increase, but definitely more than what we initially thought.

1730
01:52:41,540 --> 01:52:46,040
 Somebody had to pay DCAD last year, right?

1731
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:54,280
 I guess just because I'm curious, I like learning, from looking at the overall site plan, it

1732
01:52:54,280 --> 01:53:00,080
 looks like basically the two most rear buildings were moved forward, parking was moved to the

1733
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:07,480
 rear, and most of the other changes were what appeared to be small things.

1734
01:53:07,480 --> 01:53:17,720
 Can you help me understand what the biggest reason why it took so long, because I'm sure

1735
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:20,360
 you weren't wanting it to take this long, right?

1736
01:53:20,360 --> 01:53:21,360
 Right.

1737
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:29,040
 I think it was mainly coming to an understanding and an agreement with the neighborhood to

1738
01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:30,200
 the north.

1739
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:34,920
 A lot of that was through trial and error of coming up with new site plans, presenting

1740
01:53:34,920 --> 01:53:44,440
 different solutions, and walking through that with them, and that takes time.

1741
01:53:44,440 --> 01:53:50,240
 Eric produces all of our site plans, along with Mack and Michael and the folks over there,

1742
01:53:50,240 --> 01:53:52,120
 and that's not an overnight process.

1743
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:59,320
 There's a lot of thought and intentionality that goes into that, so it's just time-consuming.

1744
01:53:59,320 --> 01:54:00,320
 Okay.

1745
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:01,320
 Thank you.

1746
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:02,320
 Commissioner Smith.

1747
01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:03,320
 Thank you, Chair.

1748
01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:06,200
 I know you're the residential developer, correct?

1749
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:07,200
 Correct.

1750
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:08,200
 Gotcha.

1751
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:16,640
 Can I talk to the commercial developer real quick, whoever that is?

1752
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:17,640
 Good evening.

1753
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:21,800
 Steve Shatner with Imperium Holdings, the owner and developer for the commercial portion,

1754
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:25,120
 5051 Legacy Circle, Plano, Texas.

1755
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:26,120
 Gotcha.

1756
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:27,640
 Hi, Steve.

1757
01:54:27,640 --> 01:54:31,600
 The commercial development there, how many of those are going to be built to suit?

1758
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:36,800
 How many of those are going to be intended for specific use, like a restaurant, anything

1759
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:38,720
 that you can give me insight on that?

1760
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:39,720
 Don't know.

1761
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:40,720
 Gotcha.

1762
01:54:40,720 --> 01:54:41,720
 Market-driven.

1763
01:54:41,720 --> 01:54:43,920
 So I guess that it's going to be built to suit then.

1764
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:47,360
 You're going to have market-driven by whatever tenant, whatever buyer comes along that wants

1765
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:48,360
 to build there.

1766
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:50,080
 You guys are just going to go by whatever they come in there.

1767
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:53,480
 There's not an intent to say, "Hey, there's going to be ..." I didn't see exactly how

1768
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:56,280
 many, but it looked like it was somewhere between six to eight commercial properties

1769
01:54:56,280 --> 01:54:57,520
 in that entire mixed-use area.

1770
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:01,920
 It wasn't an intent to say, "Hey, we're going to try to make this all a restaurant.

1771
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:04,120
 We're going to try to make a portion of a restaurant."

1772
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:05,320
 There was no intent to it.

1773
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:06,520
 There's a good and bad thing.

1774
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:11,280
 It's more of just a clarification on a record of what the idea is.

1775
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:15,400
 Our design intent is to have lots four, five, six, and seven.

1776
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:18,760
 Can I go back a slide to pull up the rendering?

1777
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:23,040
 I'm not sure who's driving this.

1778
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:25,040
 You are.

1779
01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:30,400
 I doubt that.

1780
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:33,040
 That's probably the best ... Yeah, that's fine.

1781
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:34,040
 There you go.

1782
01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:35,320
 That's the one I'm looking for.

1783
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:36,320
 Okay.

1784
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:42,240
 If you can take a look in the center of right to the left of B, you see those four buildings

1785
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:48,320
 that are parked over the pond, which is a retention detention basin.

1786
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:51,440
 That's a focal point for the overall development.

1787
01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:52,920
 Realistically, those will be restaurants.

1788
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:53,920
 Got you.

1789
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:56,160
 We don't really know what they're intended to use.

1790
01:55:56,160 --> 01:55:59,560
 It would be underutilized to use it for any other type of place.

1791
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:01,120
 Dry cleaner or whatever else.

1792
01:56:01,120 --> 01:56:02,120
 Yeah.

1793
01:56:02,120 --> 01:56:03,120
 Exactly.

1794
01:56:03,120 --> 01:56:08,320
 Then that restaurant space there ... By the buildings and how you have it lined out, from

1795
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:10,800
 your intent, I'm sure it's once again market driven.

1796
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:11,800
 I get that.

1797
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:16,040
 It sounds like, because that's the focal point, you're going to be looking in primarily marketing

1798
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:19,080
 those first before hitting those ones that are further east.

1799
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:21,720
 Obviously, whoever comes is going to come.

1800
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:28,720
 We have been negotiating multiple letters of intent, so at this point in time, we're

1801
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:34,880
 waiting for go time from BNZ and council to start those executions.

1802
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:40,900
 But for practical purposes discussion, lots one, two, three, I think they could go a lot

1803
01:56:40,900 --> 01:56:46,960
 of different ways all, again, within the context of what we're trying to design here and then

1804
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:51,600
 also with the limitations of use of what we're allowed to do.

1805
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:53,000
 It will be within that box.

1806
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:54,000
 Got you.

1807
01:56:54,000 --> 01:56:55,000
 Okay.

1808
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:56,000
 Thank you.

1809
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:57,000
 Yeah.

1810
01:56:57,000 --> 01:56:58,000
 Any other questions?

1811
01:56:58,000 --> 01:56:59,000
 Thank you.

1812
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:00,000
 Thank you.

1813
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:01,000
 Not at this moment.

1814
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:02,000
 Thank you.

1815
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:03,000
 Okay.

1816
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,160
 This is a public hearing.

1817
01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:12,280
 I do have a card group request from the old North Park HOA.

1818
01:57:12,280 --> 01:57:17,560
 Not sure exactly who that is, who we'll represent, but come on down, state your name and address

1819
01:57:17,560 --> 01:57:23,600
 and your time will begin.

1820
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:24,600
 Good evening.

1821
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:25,600
 Good evening.

1822
01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:32,000
 I'm Diana Sims, 2500 Rugby Lane, Denton, Texas, 76209.

1823
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:37,480
 And I'm Clark Perkins, 2209 Paxson Way, Denton, Texas, 76209.

1824
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:38,480
 Go ahead.

1825
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:44,600
 And we represent the HOA that's directly behind where this will be built, and we just want

1826
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:53,080
 to thank everyone this year, Stonehawk, Ralph Mason, Steven, thank you, Amy with 97 Land.

1827
01:57:53,080 --> 01:58:01,680
 It's been a long journey, but we've come together and in the process of all of this, it was

1828
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:07,840
 a give and take, and it was something that we want you to know that we support this zoning

1829
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:08,840
 change.

1830
01:58:08,840 --> 01:58:12,840
 So we're here to tell you that, and thank you for your consideration.

1831
01:58:12,840 --> 01:58:16,200
 There was a lot of time put in.

1832
01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:24,480
 With negotiations, there was even one meeting that Mr. Shatner came to and he was very helpful.

1833
01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:28,060
 It's really been a pleasure to see things come out the way they have.

1834
01:58:28,060 --> 01:58:33,240
 We had a lot of concerns at the beginning with those buildings so close to our backyards,

1835
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:41,680
 and we really are grateful to the city council for making this a planned development and from

1836
01:58:41,680 --> 01:58:48,300
 something that went to, we thought was going to decrease our property values in a really

1837
01:58:48,300 --> 01:58:53,160
 big way, that now we believe it's going to enhance our property values.

1838
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:59,680
 So we want to come and support them in this approval.

1839
01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:01,360
 Thank you.

1840
01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:06,480
 Can you answer my concern about the fence and how that wording came about?

1841
01:59:06,480 --> 01:59:10,080
 Did you have homeowners that just wanted control?

1842
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:16,840
 Yeah, when we were in the meeting, there's about five homes down on that east end that

1843
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:23,480
 are going to be affected, and at the time, they really didn't know if they wanted to

1844
01:59:23,480 --> 01:59:33,160
 have that reimbursed and there were just ideas thrown out there, but I think overall that

1845
01:59:33,160 --> 01:59:38,320
 they would like it to be all built out so it's the same, and if there is a tree there

1846
01:59:38,320 --> 01:59:42,480
 that's in the way, you know how they do cutouts?

1847
01:59:42,480 --> 01:59:48,560
 So that's the preference, but we know that they're going to take care of it.

1848
01:59:48,560 --> 01:59:53,720
 We know that Stonehawk's going to take care of all of that one way or another, but as

1849
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:57,120
 it stands right now, I just talked to a neighbor today, she said we'd really like it to be

1850
01:59:57,120 --> 02:00:02,620
 all one fence, so it's uniform.

1851
02:00:02,620 --> 02:00:09,500
 We trust that they're going to take care of it in the best way possible, so yeah.

1852
02:00:09,500 --> 02:00:11,960
 Thank you for letting us know your opinion.

1853
02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:12,960
 It's appreciated.

1854
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:13,960
 Thank you.

1855
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:16,800
 I don't have any other cards in front of me, but this is a public hearing.

1856
02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:20,640
 Anyone else wishing to speak?

1857
02:00:20,640 --> 02:00:33,480
 Okay, with that, I will close the public hearing and open the floor, motion or discussion.

1858
02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:34,480
 Commissioner Smith?

1859
02:00:34,480 --> 02:00:36,240
 Make a motion to approve.

1860
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:37,240
 Commissioner Villarreal?

1861
02:00:37,240 --> 02:00:38,240
 Second.

1862
02:00:38,240 --> 02:00:43,400
 Okay, we've got a first and a second discussion.

1863
02:00:43,400 --> 02:00:44,400
 Commissioner Pruitt.

1864
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:45,400
 Thank you, Chair.

1865
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:51,000
 I just have a few thoughts about this.

1866
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:57,960
 I appreciate everybody's work over the last two and a half years or since February, so

1867
02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:03,300
 I guess two years exactly since it went under contract according to statements at the council

1868
02:01:03,300 --> 02:01:10,840
 meeting in October of '22.

1869
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:13,400
 I want this development to happen.

1870
02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:18,740
 I think staff, I think the developer, I think the neighborhood association have done an

1871
02:01:18,740 --> 02:01:26,440
 amazing job to come up with a great plan.

1872
02:01:26,440 --> 02:01:38,000
 At the same time, I consider my duty here to consider what is best for the city long

1873
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:42,240
 term, what is best from a planning practice.

1874
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:50,860
 I have over one bookshelf of books, not a tall, just one line that I've read to try

1875
02:01:50,860 --> 02:01:54,640
 to educate myself on that.

1876
02:01:54,640 --> 02:02:01,680
 I just want to share a few quotes from some things that explain my reticence to making

1877
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:04,080
 this a PD.

1878
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:07,720
 One other thing, I did go back over the last two years and looked at the rezonings that

1879
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:14,320
 we have done to a zoning classification that would allow multi-family.

1880
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:20,560
 There had been four that we approved that were straight zonings, two of them were denied

1881
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:22,160
 by council.

1882
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:29,240
 There had been 10 SUPs, I believe, split between SC and R7.

1883
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:35,000
 There have been three PDs and four PD amendments, so that's kind of the data that I'm working

1884
02:02:35,000 --> 02:02:36,000
 from.

1885
02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:44,480
 APA Texas says, "Plan developments should be used for unique developments, not routinely."

1886
02:02:44,480 --> 02:02:50,200
 As a senior fellow at the Mercatus Institute wrote, "A survey of Texas cities shows planned

1887
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:53,000
 development zoning is used frequently.

1888
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:56,440
 A number of forces have generated this demand.

1889
02:02:56,440 --> 02:03:00,400
 Neighborhood organizations are becoming stronger participants in the development decision making

1890
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:01,640
 process.

1891
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:05,660
 Neighborhood associations are insisting that negotiated concessions be made enforceable

1892
02:03:05,660 --> 02:03:09,160
 by recording them in the PD ordinance.

1893
02:03:09,160 --> 02:03:14,180
 Developers have found planned development zoning a successful strategy for gaining approval.

1894
02:03:14,180 --> 02:03:18,560
 Developers freely negotiate restrictions and concessions to win approval.

1895
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:22,440
 Planners have promoted the use of planned development districts as a means of adding

1896
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:28,120
 regulations that they have not been successful in getting approved as general ordinance amendments.

1897
02:03:28,120 --> 02:03:34,600
 All of the forces have resulted in the growing ad hoc use of planned development zoning.

1898
02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:39,040
 Overuse of planned development zoning should be guarded against.

1899
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:45,440
 PD zoning should not be used to correct deficiencies of a standard district, nor should PDs be used

1900
02:03:45,440 --> 02:03:48,280
 as a means of legislatively granting a variance.

1901
02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:55,080
 Instead, PDs should be reserved to accommodate innovation and to respond to unique site conditions

1902
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:58,560
 in accordance with the city's comprehensive plan."

1903
02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:05,720
 A shorter one from Donald Elliott, who is actually the senior consultant at Clarion,

1904
02:04:05,720 --> 02:04:12,000
 who incidentally was the office that consulted on our 2019 code.

1905
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:18,080
 It says, "PD zoning was originally created to address innovative developments where the

1906
02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:22,440
 applicant would give increased quality in return for flexibility.

1907
02:04:22,440 --> 02:04:27,560
 As PDs moved from being the exception for innovative development to a form of zoning

1908
02:04:27,560 --> 02:04:33,920
 used regularly and for not so innovative projects, cities woke up to a problem.

1909
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:37,960
 If you are not careful, PDs can become a zoning narcotic.

1910
02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:45,240
 I have worked with several cities that became addicted to negotiating zoning, negotiated

1911
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:48,040
 zoning and begged for the cure.

1912
02:04:48,040 --> 02:04:53,000
 The problem is that once you start using PDs, you have trouble drawing the line between

1913
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,640
 what should and should not be negotiated.

1914
02:04:55,640 --> 02:05:00,160
 At their worst, and this really happens, they are used because it is easier to negotiate

1915
02:05:00,160 --> 02:05:05,800
 case-by-case deals than to fix problems with the underlining Euclidean zoning ordinance.

1916
02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:09,400
 Planners may know that the setbacks are wrong or that the parking standards are too low

1917
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:15,600
 or too high, but there is no political will to fix the problems in the zoning ordinance."

1918
02:05:15,600 --> 02:05:24,720
 Our DDC says simply, "The purpose of rezoning to a PD are to ensure compatibility between

1919
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:29,560
 development to achieve greater flexibility than allowed by the strict application of

1920
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:35,760
 the DDC and/or to encourage unique and innovative land use concepts while providing greater

1921
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:41,500
 benefit to the city and ensuring efficient provision of services and utilities."

1922
02:05:41,500 --> 02:05:43,640
 So that's a mouthful.

1923
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:47,480
 I thank you for your patience.

1924
02:05:47,480 --> 02:05:55,320
 It's just an uncomfortable situation for me because, again, I view my role here as doing

1925
02:05:55,320 --> 02:06:02,960
 what I can to create the best city for my children.

1926
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:12,640
 Locking Denton in many, many PDs going forward because we feel the need to do that is not

1927
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:15,220
 a recipe for success in my view.

1928
02:06:15,220 --> 02:06:23,280
 With that said, like I said, I fully appreciate the Neighborhood Association, the developer,

1929
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:26,600
 and staff because you've done a great job.

1930
02:06:26,600 --> 02:06:28,900
 Thank you.

1931
02:06:28,900 --> 02:06:32,400
 Thank you.

1932
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:39,320
 I guess with that I'll just say that, well, I agree with some of the things that you read.

1933
02:06:39,320 --> 02:06:45,840
 In this situation, I think when we do have existing neighborhoods and they can come together

1934
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:52,080
 and create a development together, I think can be a unique and wonderful thing.

1935
02:06:52,080 --> 02:06:55,720
 It doesn't just have to be some kind of unique piece of land, for instance.

1936
02:06:55,720 --> 02:07:01,960
 It could be just the unique thing of an existing community that comes together and would like

1937
02:07:01,960 --> 02:07:06,200
 some say in what they're going to be looking at.

1938
02:07:06,200 --> 02:07:09,160
 I don't think that says that it's a problem in our development code.

1939
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:16,680
 I think we've worked really hard to create our current development code that does work.

1940
02:07:16,680 --> 02:07:21,640
 While I appreciate the pause, I'm not sure I agree with it in this scenario, but I do

1941
02:07:21,640 --> 02:07:24,440
 appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

1942
02:07:24,440 --> 02:07:27,960
 Before we go ahead and vote, I do have just a quick question.

1943
02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:32,260
 Amy, maybe you can answer this.

1944
02:07:32,260 --> 02:07:33,400
 How is the gate going to work?

1945
02:07:33,400 --> 02:07:34,920
 I just thought of the question.

1946
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:39,040
 I would have asked it earlier if it came to me.

1947
02:07:39,040 --> 02:07:44,520
 That wrought iron fence section has a gate now.

1948
02:07:44,520 --> 02:07:45,520
 Yes, it does.

1949
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:47,000
 That has a lock on it.

1950
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:48,000
 Yes.

1951
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:49,000
 Because I saw it.

1952
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:52,920
 I was at the property yesterday.

1953
02:07:52,920 --> 02:07:59,400
 How is that working for, you're saying there's going to be pedestrian access so that neighborhood

1954
02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:00,920
 could come into the development?

1955
02:08:00,920 --> 02:08:01,920
 Yes.

1956
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:03,720
 Is that going to be a one-way working thing?

1957
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:04,720
 It is.

1958
02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:10,820
 What we've talked about is them having some sort of key card access where they can come

1959
02:08:10,820 --> 02:08:14,520
 through, but nobody can get back onto their side.

1960
02:08:14,520 --> 02:08:20,600
 The way that we've situated the secured gates for the multifamily piece, they're just outside

1961
02:08:20,600 --> 02:08:25,760
 of that so that they can come straight down into the commercial.

1962
02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:31,440
 How does that work with, I guess, who accesses the gate now?

1963
02:08:31,440 --> 02:08:33,920
 The HOA has complete control over that gate today.

1964
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:34,920
 We have none.

1965
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:35,920
 Or the developer has none.

1966
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:36,920
 Okay.

1967
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:37,920
 And it worked for it made that way.

1968
02:08:37,920 --> 02:08:38,920
 Okay.

1969
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:39,920
 Good.

1970
02:08:39,920 --> 02:08:40,920
 That was the answer I was looking for.

1971
02:08:40,920 --> 02:08:41,920
 Thank you.

1972
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:42,920
 I figured you would have thought of that.

1973
02:08:42,920 --> 02:08:43,920
 Thank you.

1974
02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:44,920
 I appreciate it.

1975
02:08:44,920 --> 02:08:45,920
 Yeah.

1976
02:08:45,920 --> 02:08:47,320
 I certainly appreciate this getting reworked.

1977
02:08:47,320 --> 02:08:50,800
 I didn't have a problem, obviously we on the commission didn't have a problem the first

1978
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:57,960
 time it came around, but obviously other things changed.

1979
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:03,900
 So I think coming together the way this has come together and getting the HOA support

1980
02:09:03,900 --> 02:09:05,880
 I think is a terrific thing.

1981
02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:07,920
 So thank you very much.

1982
02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:09,720
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

1983
02:09:09,720 --> 02:09:11,800
 Is there any further discussion?

1984
02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:12,800
 Comments?

1985
02:09:12,800 --> 02:09:13,800
 Okay.

1986
02:09:13,800 --> 02:09:22,880
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

1987
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:28,560
 That will pass 4-1.

1988
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:32,300
 That will take us to our next public hearing.

1989
02:09:32,300 --> 02:09:35,720
 I'll go ahead and just pause a couple of seconds because I figure the room's going to clear

1990
02:09:35,720 --> 02:09:36,720
 before our next one.

1991
02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:46,600
 So I'll go ahead and let that happen and we'll make way for 5B which is SD 230002.

1992
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:47,600
 Ashley's here for presentation.

1993
02:09:47,600 --> 02:09:54,880
 I'll go ahead and open the public hearing.

1994
02:09:54,880 --> 02:09:58,760
 Good evening chair, members of the commission, Ashley Eckstead, assistant planner.

1995
02:09:58,760 --> 02:10:00,680
 This is SD 230002.

1996
02:10:00,680 --> 02:10:06,420
 This is the special sign district for James Wood Auto Park.

1997
02:10:06,420 --> 02:10:09,960
 So just some history of the debt and sign code and why we have it.

1998
02:10:09,960 --> 02:10:12,280
 Signs are needed as part of the urban built environment.

1999
02:10:12,280 --> 02:10:16,440
 They provide directions for residents and visitors and communicate messages for commerce.

2000
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:20,560
 However, they can create nuisances such as visual clutter, glare for property owners

2001
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:22,400
 and distract drivers.

2002
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:27,400
 So our sign regulations do aim to balance a property owner's needs with the community's

2003
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:29,360
 aesthetic and safety goals.

2004
02:10:29,360 --> 02:10:35,360
 However, not all situations can be anticipated so the sign code does allow for deviations

2005
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:40,300
 provided that the sign package is superior and comprehensive.

2006
02:10:40,300 --> 02:10:45,020
 So some background on James Wood Auto Park, it is a 54 acre auto dealership with frontage

2007
02:10:45,020 --> 02:10:51,560
 on two roadways that's 35E which is a freeway and state school which is a primary arterial.

2008
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:54,240
 They also have eight driveway connections throughout the site.

2009
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:58,480
 There's five along 35E which connects to the parts and service departments and their sales

2010
02:10:58,480 --> 02:10:59,480
 buildings.

2011
02:10:59,480 --> 02:11:03,120
 And then there's also three along state school which connects to the truck sales, body shop

2012
02:11:03,120 --> 02:11:05,160
 and the pre-owned sales building.

2013
02:11:05,160 --> 02:11:10,840
 They have eight structures, parking, covered and uncovered automotive sales display areas.

2014
02:11:10,840 --> 02:11:14,440
 And due to the size of the campus and the arrangement of the facilities, they do rely

2015
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:18,920
 upon signage to effectively direct motorists to their locations.

2016
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:23,840
 TxDOT did acquire the front portion of this property for the I-35E widening project so

2017
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:27,840
 the applicant is asking to replace the signs.

2018
02:11:27,840 --> 02:11:31,120
 So since these signs were installed in the past, we do know what they look like installed

2019
02:11:31,120 --> 02:11:36,360
 and these are two photos of the signs installed previously before they were removed by TxDOT

2020
02:11:36,360 --> 02:11:39,280
 and these signs did predate the sign code.

2021
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:49,080
 The applicant is not requesting to reinstall the large disco ball that you see in the photo

2022
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:50,080
 here.

2023
02:11:50,080 --> 02:11:54,000
 So this is their sign plan and the signs are shown in the general location of where they're

2024
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:55,480
 being proposed.

2025
02:11:55,480 --> 02:12:00,160
 There will be four new ground signs and then it also includes two existing signs.

2026
02:12:00,160 --> 02:12:04,520
 And the brand signs, those are going to be 47 feet tall and then the traffic control

2027
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:10,360
 sign, the certified service sign will be eight feet tall.

2028
02:12:10,360 --> 02:12:16,400
 So in summary of the sign district, for the maximum effective area for signs along 35E

2029
02:12:16,400 --> 02:12:18,520
 is 250 square feet.

2030
02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:24,920
 The three ground signs will be 226.3 square feet, so they will be 23.7 square feet less

2031
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:30,240
 than permitted and the traffic control will be 15.6 square feet, which is 234 square feet

2032
02:12:30,240 --> 02:12:31,240
 less than permitted.

2033
02:12:31,240 --> 02:12:36,000
 So the effective area of all four signs is less than would be permitted under our sign

2034
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:37,640
 code.

2035
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:41,120
 The height, so on 35E they can be 40 feet.

2036
02:12:41,120 --> 02:12:45,400
 The three ground signs will be 47 feet, which is seven feet taller than permitted.

2037
02:12:45,400 --> 02:12:51,140
 The traffic control sign will only be eight feet, so it is 32 feet shorter than permitted.

2038
02:12:51,140 --> 02:12:56,480
 We are adjusting the way that the setbacks are calculated in the sign district.

2039
02:12:56,480 --> 02:13:01,200
 So generally, they are calculated 20 feet from the curb line.

2040
02:13:01,200 --> 02:13:06,280
 Since this property was acquired by TextDOT and we don't have the final plans for the

2041
02:13:06,280 --> 02:13:10,920
 TextDOT expansion, we wanted to ensure that the signs would not become non-conforming

2042
02:13:10,920 --> 02:13:13,560
 once TextDOT was finished doing their work.

2043
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:17,960
 So they do meet the 20 feet from the curb line, however, we are changing that requirement

2044
02:13:17,960 --> 02:13:21,060
 so that it's measured from the property line in the future.

2045
02:13:21,060 --> 02:13:25,800
 So they would need to be a minimum of 10 feet for ground sign one and three in the traffic

2046
02:13:25,800 --> 02:13:30,880
 control one, and a minimum of 8.7 feet for ground sign two.

2047
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:36,560
 Lastly, the number of signs, that is based off the feet of frontage, and then they cannot

2048
02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:38,780
 be more than 60 feet from one another.

2049
02:13:38,780 --> 02:13:43,240
 So along 35E, they could have a maximum of three signs, and of State School Road they

2050
02:13:43,240 --> 02:13:45,460
 could have a maximum of two.

2051
02:13:45,460 --> 02:13:50,640
 So along 35E, they are proposing five signs, and then the ground sign three and the traffic

2052
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:55,720
 control sign would only be 22 feet apart instead of 60 feet apart, and along State School they

2053
02:13:55,720 --> 02:13:59,800
 are only keeping the one existing sign, so they will have one less than they are permitted

2054
02:13:59,800 --> 02:14:03,080
 along State School.

2055
02:14:03,080 --> 02:14:06,640
 So the comprehensive sign package and the compatibility, they would not be able to install

2056
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:10,440
 any new ground signs without going through the public hearing process again.

2057
02:14:10,440 --> 02:14:14,800
 They have presented a unified sign package, which reduces the visual clutter through consistency

2058
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:19,360
 and uniformity, and as discussed earlier, the signs all do have a smaller effective

2059
02:14:19,360 --> 02:14:24,960
 area than would be permitted under the sign plan, and they would not obstruct the view

2060
02:14:24,960 --> 02:14:27,320
 of the drivers.

2061
02:14:27,320 --> 02:14:32,000
 The scale of the property is large and complex, so the numerous signs are needed to direct

2062
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:37,200
 traffic, and the colors of the signs in these photos, you can see the colors of the signs

2063
02:14:37,200 --> 02:14:41,560
 do align with the colors of the buildings for each of the brands, so they are compatible

2064
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:47,120
 with the building architecture and provide clear directions throughout the site.

2065
02:14:47,120 --> 02:14:51,320
 We did public outreach and newspaper ad, signs were posted on the property, and we mailed

2066
02:14:51,320 --> 02:14:52,320
 out notices.

2067
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:57,040
 We did not receive any responses in opposition or in favor.

2068
02:14:57,040 --> 02:15:00,600
 Staff does recommend approval of the CRUST, as it complies with the criteria for approval

2069
02:15:00,600 --> 02:15:04,360
 of the Denton Code of Ordinances for the creation of a special sign district, and I'm happy

2070
02:15:04,360 --> 02:15:06,600
 to answer any questions.

2071
02:15:06,600 --> 02:15:07,600
 >> Thank you, Ashley.

2072
02:15:07,600 --> 02:15:09,600
 Any questions at the moment?

2073
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:10,600
 Okay.

2074
02:15:10,600 --> 02:15:16,500
 I don't have any cards in front of me, but this is a public hearing.

2075
02:15:16,500 --> 02:15:17,500
 Come on up.

2076
02:15:17,500 --> 02:15:18,500
 Thanks, Ashley.

2077
02:15:18,500 --> 02:15:19,500
 Good evening.

2078
02:15:19,500 --> 02:15:20,500
 >> Good evening.

2079
02:15:20,500 --> 02:15:25,680
 I am Rick Ferraro with Ginza Architects representing the applicant, and I'll be happy to answer

2080
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:30,120
 any questions, but I think staff's done a really good job explaining this one.

2081
02:15:30,120 --> 02:15:31,120
 >> Yeah, I think they have too.

2082
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:32,120
 Where's the disco ball?

2083
02:15:32,120 --> 02:15:33,120
 Where is it going?

2084
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:34,120
 I've got to ask.

2085
02:15:34,120 --> 02:15:35,120
 I won't lie.

2086
02:15:35,120 --> 02:15:36,120
 I've missed it.

2087
02:15:36,120 --> 02:15:41,640
 That corner has not looked right to me.

2088
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:49,040
 >> The owner had considered putting the disco ball back and ultimately decided that in the

2089
02:15:49,040 --> 02:15:53,680
 best interest of getting this passed easily that it would be best to not bring it before

2090
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:54,680
 you.

2091
02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:55,680
 >> So iconic.

2092
02:15:55,680 --> 02:15:57,520
 But anyway, yes, I'm happy that signs are going back up.

2093
02:15:57,520 --> 02:16:02,040
 That is a big piece of property that has not had signs for a very long time, so yeah, it

2094
02:16:02,040 --> 02:16:03,040
 is difficult.

2095
02:16:03,040 --> 02:16:05,080
 Is there any questions here?

2096
02:16:05,080 --> 02:16:06,080
 Good.

2097
02:16:06,080 --> 02:16:07,800
 Thank you for being here.

2098
02:16:07,800 --> 02:16:08,960
 This is a public hearing.

2099
02:16:08,960 --> 02:16:10,920
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

2100
02:16:10,920 --> 02:16:11,920
 Okay.

2101
02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:16,720
 With that, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and open the floor for a motion or

2102
02:16:16,720 --> 02:16:17,720
 discussion.

2103
02:16:17,720 --> 02:16:19,160
 Commissioner Villarreal.

2104
02:16:19,160 --> 02:16:24,720
 >> I move approval and for the record, I would have supported this with the disco ball.

2105
02:16:24,720 --> 02:16:25,720
 >> Commissioner Cole.

2106
02:16:25,720 --> 02:16:26,720
 >> Second.

2107
02:16:26,720 --> 02:16:30,920
 >> We've got a first and a second for approval.

2108
02:16:30,920 --> 02:16:33,480
 Any discussion?

2109
02:16:33,480 --> 02:16:42,000
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

2110
02:16:42,000 --> 02:16:45,080
 That motion carries 5-0.

2111
02:16:45,080 --> 02:16:49,560
 That will take us to our planning and zoning matrix, and I will turn the floor over to

2112
02:16:49,560 --> 02:16:50,560
 Tina.

2113
02:16:50,560 --> 02:16:53,400
 Thank you.

2114
02:16:53,400 --> 02:16:58,360
 >> Thank you, Chair Ellis.

2115
02:16:58,360 --> 02:17:03,600
 For the matrix, so we get to remove two items off your matrix that we've completed, so that

2116
02:17:03,600 --> 02:17:07,000
 is the discussion regarding the appropriate terminology for the different types of housing

2117
02:17:07,000 --> 02:17:08,600
 units.

2118
02:17:08,600 --> 02:17:12,960
 Since we addressed that at the commission's prior meeting, but since it was coupled with

2119
02:17:12,960 --> 02:17:18,280
 the affordable housing toolkit presentation you received tonight, so hence why we left

2120
02:17:18,280 --> 02:17:22,340
 that on there temporarily, but both of those items will come off.

2121
02:17:22,340 --> 02:17:26,240
 There were no additional requests from the commission's last meeting, so we've not added

2122
02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:29,240
 anything to the matrix.

2123
02:17:29,240 --> 02:17:33,440
 Just for your benefit, since our last planning and zoning commission meeting, we did have

2124
02:17:33,440 --> 02:17:40,080
 the 314 Marietta street historic landmark designation request that the commission had considered

2125
02:17:40,080 --> 02:17:45,200
 previously and recommended approval of, so City Council did end up approving that item.

2126
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:49,440
 There was some discussion regarding whether or not the designation applied to just the

2127
02:17:49,440 --> 02:17:55,900
 750 square foot structure versus the entire structure given the proposed building addition

2128
02:17:55,900 --> 02:18:01,120
 that will eventually be made on the property, but otherwise that item was approved.

2129
02:18:01,120 --> 02:18:06,000
 As it relates to our area plans, so just want to give a quick update on the southeast area

2130
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:07,280
 plan.

2131
02:18:07,280 --> 02:18:13,040
 We have a steering committee meeting with that group that's this Thursday at five o'clock,

2132
02:18:13,040 --> 02:18:18,560
 pending quorum is made, so fingers crossed on that one, but that is this Thursday, so

2133
02:18:18,560 --> 02:18:21,640
 we'll be having that.

2134
02:18:21,640 --> 02:18:26,960
 You also should have on your calendars next Wednesday, February 21st, is a special call

2135
02:18:26,960 --> 02:18:31,320
 planning and zoning commission meeting that's at five o'clock.

2136
02:18:31,320 --> 02:18:33,520
 Your packet, I believe, was sent out today.

2137
02:18:33,520 --> 02:18:40,200
 I'm getting a favor or not from Kathy, so check your email for that, and included with

2138
02:18:40,200 --> 02:18:45,960
 that is the existing conditions information that we will be presenting to you next week,

2139
02:18:45,960 --> 02:18:49,800
 so in the event you want to be able to review that in advance, I know we made the commitment

2140
02:18:49,800 --> 02:18:53,400
 to try and get you those materials a week in advance of when we do those meetings.

2141
02:18:53,400 --> 02:18:59,920
 So again, looking forward to that conversation because the existing conditions conversation

2142
02:18:59,920 --> 02:19:05,080
 that we have will help prepare and tee up our discussion that we have with council in

2143
02:19:05,080 --> 02:19:09,880
 March when we do the joint meeting with them for this project, and that concludes my update.

2144
02:19:09,880 --> 02:19:10,880
 Okay.

2145
02:19:10,880 --> 02:19:11,880
 Commissioner Smith.

2146
02:19:11,880 --> 02:19:12,880
 Thank you, Chair.

2147
02:19:12,880 --> 02:19:19,640
 I hate to be the stickler on this for the last seven years, but once again, whenever

2148
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:25,760
 we have projects that we think could be possibly contentious or lengthy, if we can just be

2149
02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:32,840
 mindful of other items that are on the agenda, just agenda organization, James Wood could

2150
02:19:32,840 --> 02:19:37,880
 have easily gone as A, and then A could have been B. Don't think you need to sit there

2151
02:19:37,880 --> 02:19:38,880
 for all of it.

2152
02:19:38,880 --> 02:19:42,280
 Now, thankfully, it wasn't a very long item, but we have seen items that have gone very

2153
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:46,160
 long, and it may have, from a staff perspective, whenever the agenda was getting built, it

2154
02:19:46,160 --> 02:19:50,040
 may have been, hey, everyone seems on board, it shouldn't be too big of a deal, and really,

2155
02:19:50,040 --> 02:19:54,840
 I kind of feel weird by even picking the fight tonight because it wasn't that long of a deal,

2156
02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:55,840
 but it was another example.

2157
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:59,040
 Just a quick reminder, let's be efficient in our agenda building.

2158
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:02,200
 If anybody can get in and out of here for the quick something quick, we don't think

2159
02:20:02,200 --> 02:20:06,740
 signed ordinance is going to get really hotly picked on, and we know something in the past

2160
02:20:06,740 --> 02:20:07,740
 has been.

2161
02:20:07,740 --> 02:20:09,120
 Let's put that guy last.

2162
02:20:09,120 --> 02:20:10,120
 Sure thing.

2163
02:20:10,120 --> 02:20:11,120
 That's fair.

2164
02:20:11,120 --> 02:20:12,120
 Thank you.

2165
02:20:12,120 --> 02:20:16,880
 Is there anything to add to the matrix or any concluding items?

2166
02:20:16,880 --> 02:20:17,880
 Okay.

2167
02:20:17,880 --> 02:20:20,600
 Well, with that, I'll just say Happy Valentine's Day.

2168
02:20:20,600 --> 02:20:24,320
 Thank you for being here and taking the time to do that.

2169
02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:27,240
 And I will adjourn this at 747 p.m.

2170
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:28,240
 Thank you.

2171
02:20:28,240 --> 02:20:28,240
 See you next week.