WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.440 All right, we're ready? 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:11.640 All right, we are going to call the meeting of the historic landmark commission to order, 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:22.460 and this is Monday, January 8th, 2024, and I have right at 5.33pm, and I'm going to call 00:00:22.460 --> 00:00:23.460 it to order. 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:29.000 I do want, before we get started, if everyone, when you're speaking, if you will speak up, 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:34.320 we understand that they're having a hard time hearing us on the TV, so just want to call 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:35.320 that out. 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:36.320 I'm eating on TV. 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:37.320 Yes. 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:38.320 You're on TV. 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:39.320 Smile. 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:45.840 All right, so if you would please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:52.600 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:59.640 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:00.640 Amen. 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.640 Honor the Texas flag. 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:02.640 I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one indivisible. 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:03.640 All right, thank you guys. 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:23.080 Okay, let's move right along to item 2A, number HLC 24-001. 00:01:23.080 --> 00:01:28.360 On our agenda is the introduction of our new commissioner, is it Eaton? 00:01:28.360 --> 00:01:29.360 Aton. 00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:30.360 Aton. 00:01:30.360 --> 00:01:31.360 Yeah. 00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:32.360 Aton, thank you for that. 00:01:32.360 --> 00:01:33.360 And Emma, how do you say your last name? 00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:34.360 Tepperman. 00:01:34.360 --> 00:01:35.360 Tepperman. 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:36.360 That's an easier one. 00:01:36.360 --> 00:01:37.360 That is. 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:38.360 That is. 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:39.360 Well, welcome. 00:01:39.360 --> 00:01:41.360 Welcome, and we're going to let you introduce yourself. 00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:42.360 Should I stand? 00:01:42.360 --> 00:01:43.360 Well, absolutely. 00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:44.360 Sure. 00:01:44.360 --> 00:01:45.360 Just take that. 00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:46.360 Just like it's an introduction, right? 00:01:46.360 --> 00:01:47.360 Sure. 00:01:47.360 --> 00:01:48.360 Yeah. 00:01:48.360 --> 00:01:49.360 Well, I'm Aton Tepperman. 00:01:49.360 --> 00:01:54.360 It's definitely not pronounced as it's spelled, but I'm used to that. 00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:56.360 I'm on the spot here as new commissioner. 00:01:56.360 --> 00:01:59.360 I'm an attorney here in town, personal injury attorney. 00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:01.360 You can't put us in jail. 00:02:01.360 --> 00:02:03.360 I know I am. 00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:05.360 Hey, I'm here for the innocent people. 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:06.360 Everybody's innocent. 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:09.360 I keep people out of jail. 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.360 Actually, anyway. 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:13.360 What else? 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.360 Wasn't that my interest in history? 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:16.360 Sure. 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:20.360 It was a lot of lawyers were history majors. 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.360 I was not, but history is very important. 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:30.360 As things are coming into town and more things are being developed and houses are being built, 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:35.360 it's important that we preserve the history and where we came from. 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:39.360 And then it's got a lot of that. 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.360 So we have to make sure that we're doing something. 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:48.360 So, you know, it's nice to have new stuff, but it's also nice to preserve some of the old stuff. 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:50.360 Remember where we came from. 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:52.360 So that's why I'm here. 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:53.360 Yeah. 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.360 Well, thank you. 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:56.360 Thank you. 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:59.360 Any questions for me? 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:03.360 Where are you from? 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:12.360 Originally, before I moved, I'm on TV saying I'm not originally from Texas. 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:17.360 I moved here as soon as I could when I was 16. 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:22.360 So Baltimore, Maryland, until I was 16 and then San Antonio. 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:32.360 And I want to say that the last time I did the Texas Pledge was in probably 2004 when I was my first year at high school, Churchill High School in San Antonio. 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.360 And I want to say they added some words to it. 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.360 I feel like there's a couple of things added to it. 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:41.360 It's a little different every time. 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.360 Where's your favorite taco in town? 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.360 In Denton? 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.360 Well, yeah. 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:52.360 You know, that's something that I think maybe we need to work on. 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:59.360 It's getting better tacos into San Antonio. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.360 Is anybody familiar with San Antonio? 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:06.360 Like if I said a certain road, like 1604? 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:08.360 You can say roads and they're crazy there. 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:13.360 My thing is that, you know, Mexican food north of 1604 isn't really very good. 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.360 I would understand why you said that. 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.360 Which is the big loop. 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.360 It's the big loop around the city. 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:25.360 Well, welcome, Commissioner Tepperman. 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:27.360 We're glad to have you. 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.360 I'm used to being called Commissioner. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.360 You will. 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:31.360 I hope I'm the first. 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:32.360 Am I the first? 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:34.360 Yes. 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:35.360 Nice. 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.360 Well, thank you for having me. 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.360 Yeah, thank you for serving. 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:48.360 Okay, item 2B, number HOC 23-054 on our agenda is to elect a chair 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:52.360 and a vice chair to the Historic Land Commission. 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:58.360 So, do we have any nominations for chair? 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:02.360 I guess Eve wouldn't like to sit on this chair, would you? 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.360 I think I might need a couple more minutes. 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:11.360 I will nominate Angie for chair. 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.360 Okay. 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:16.360 Do you need a second? 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:17.360 Yes, we need a second. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:19.360 I'll offer a second. 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:21.360 Okay, any others? 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.360 We also have to do for vice chair. 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:24.360 We don't have a vice chair currently. 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:25.360 Right. 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.360 But we do them individually? 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:27.360 Yes, yes. 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:28.360 Okay. 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:29.360 Yeah. 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:36.360 Okay, well, if there's not any others, all in favor of Angie Strickland being the chair 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.360 of the commission, raise your hand. 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:41.360 Okay. 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:42.360 I'll vote too. 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.360 I'm going to raise your hand and then I'm doing it. 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:45.360 Okay. 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:46.360 I will accept that. 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:47.360 You got drafted, Angie. 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:48.360 Do I? 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:49.360 Yeah. 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:50.360 You got drafted. 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:51.360 Thank you. 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:52.360 You're welcome. 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:53.360 You're welcome. 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:54.360 All right. 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.360 Let's move on to a vice chair. 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.360 Do we have any nominations for vice chair? 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:06.360 Is this on all of us? 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:07.360 Lance. 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:08.360 We're missing Lance. 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:09.360 Well, that's right. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.360 Lance isn't here. 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:11.360 So we should nominate him, right? 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:12.360 Yes, in absentia. 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:20.360 So is that a nomination for Lance or do you have anyone else? 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:28.360 I need to do that too. 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:29.360 Okay. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.360 That's right. 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.360 Anyone else? 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:36.360 Okay. 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.360 Do we get a motion and a second? 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:41.360 Do we want that? 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:42.360 We would need a second. 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:43.360 You want that? 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:44.360 Yeah. 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:45.360 Yeah. 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:46.360 Sean. 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:47.360 So you're nominating Sean? 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:48.360 Yes. 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:49.360 Okay. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:50.360 We have a second. 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:55.360 So we have a nomination for Sean with a second. 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.360 All in favor, raise your hand. 00:06:58.360 --> 00:06:59.360 There you go. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:00.360 Sean, are you voting? 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:01.360 I'm abstaining. 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:02.360 You're going to abstain? 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:03.360 I have some integrity, ma'am. 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:04.360 Okay. 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:05.360 Nice. 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:06.360 Okay. 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:07.360 So Sean, congratulations. 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:08.360 You are the vice chair. 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:09.360 I'm here to serve. 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:10.360 All righty. 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:25.360 Let's move on to item 2C, number HLC 23-0057. 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:31.360 On our agenda is to consider approval of the November 12th minutes from 2023. 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.360 I know that was a way back, but they were in our packet. 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.360 But I was here for that, and I move the approval of the minutes. 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:41.360 All right. 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:42.360 Lenny made the motion. 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:43.360 Do we have a second? 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.360 Yes, we have a second. 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:45.360 And Sean, we have a second. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:46.360 All in favor, raise your hand, please. 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:47.360 Okay. 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.360 A minutes are up for you. 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.360 Thank you for that. 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:50.360 Item 2D, number HL 23-002. 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:58.360 On our agenda is to hold a public meeting and consider making a recommendation to the 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:07.360 Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council regarding an application for historic landmark 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:13.360 designation in accordance with the section 2.9.4 on the Ditton Development Code for the 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:19.360 property located at 314 Marietta Street within the West Oak Area Historic District. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:25.360 The property is located on the east side of Marietta Street, just south of Houston Place. 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:34.360 HL 23-002, historic landmark designation of 314 Marietta Street. 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:36.360 We have the presentation. 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.360 Thank you, Chair. 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:45.360 So as stated, this is 314 Marietta Street, which is highlighted there in the red box. 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:51.360 The owners are Travis and Sarah Rimsby, and the construction date is circa 1940. 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.360 So you all saw this back in November of 2023 for those who are present. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:09:02.360 They did have a second story or addition that was two stories that was approved by the HLC 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:03.360 at that time. 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.360 So I just want to remind you all of that before we begin. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.360 So just a little bit about the building's history. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.360 It was originally constructed for Ms. Susie Shepherd. 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.360 It is that minimal traditional style. 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:21.360 Since 1940, it has had 14 owners, with the 14th owners being the Rimsby's. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:27.360 It has been used largely as a rental property from the 1960s to the present day. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:31.360 So the request today is for that historic landmark designation. 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.360 Just to provide you a little bit of that property information, it is in that West Oak Area 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:36.360 Historic District. 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:37.360 So you can see it here. 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.360 It's right on the edge of that West Oak Area Historic District. 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:46.360 It is that OR3 zoning, which is that overlay with the West Oak Area Historic District. 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.360 The use would be single family residence. 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:56.360 And just to provide you with that acreage, it is .2984 acres, approximately 13,000 square feet. 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:03.360 So this is the property today from that front west and north facades here, so along Marietta. 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:10.360 And then you also have the south and rear east facades of the current structure today. 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:16.360 This is a survey of the property itself, showing the existing one-story structure. 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:25.360 And then this is the older plot and abstract of the property. 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.360 So I am doing a little bit different than certificates of appropriateness. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.360 Usually I go through everything and then I do the staff analysis at the end. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:38.360 So as this is my first historic designation, I think for the majority, I think Angie might be 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.360 the only person who has last seen a designation come through in 2019. 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.360 So it's been a really long time since we've seen one of these. 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.360 So I am going to be switching it up a little bit. 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:54.360 So I'll talk about what we're looking at in terms of the code, and then I'll run through what staff's analysis is. 00:10:54.360 --> 00:11:02.360 So staff looked at DVC section 2.9.4(b), and that is the approval criteria to be used for the 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.360 designation of a historic landmark. 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:11.360 So staff specifically for 314 Marietta was looking at A, which is also 1 in the code. 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.360 And that's the character, interest, or value as part of the development, heritage, or cultural 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.360 characteristics of the city, state, or the United States. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:24.360 The second one is J, which is 10 in the code. 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:30.360 And that is the location as the site of the significance. 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.360 Sorry, that was my problem, the significant historic event, my apologies. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:36.360 I was like, huh. 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:42.360 And then K, which is 11, an identification with a person who significantly contributed to the 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:46.360 culture and development of the city, state, or the United States. 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:53.360 So looking first at approval criteria A/1, much of that neighborhood--so I'm not going to go into 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:58.360 too much detail because it is in your backup packet, but much of the neighborhood that is north of 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:04.360 University of North Texas, it was plotted during the 1920s and early 1930s with a lot of those 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:09.360 residences being constructed in the late 1930s, early 1940s, so kind of around the end of the 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.360 Great Depression, World War II. 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:17.360 As stated, it is that minimal traditional style, and these were intentionally designed to be kind 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:21.360 of simple, economical, and be mass-produced. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:26.360 As I stated, built largely during the Great Depression because of the federal housing 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.360 administration, and then with the 1940s, it was produced in large quantities to combat the need 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:32.360 for housing. 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:37.360 And then as we kind of see in that neighborhood, we do see a lot of minimal traditional styles, 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:42.360 but they're also mixed with 1920s styles, but then we also start to see the 1950s range 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.360 styles along Houston Place. 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:49.360 So it's a really interesting historic district in itself, and this house kind of tells that 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:53.360 history of Denton and that development in that area. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:58.360 So the next approval criteria is J/10. 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:07.360 My apologies, it is a little muted there, but Denton's La Leche League International Meeting 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:12.360 were originally hosted at 314 Marietta and starting in the late 1960s. 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:18.360 Ms. Leroy Ball, she was the original leader of this organization in Denton, and she was a 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:23.360 renter at the property from 1968 to 1977. 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:29.360 And just to give you a little bit of background on the La Leche League International, it is 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:34.360 a non-governmental nonprofit organization that organizes advocacy, education, and training 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:37.360 related breastfeeding, and it still exists today. 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.360 This was in the 60s? 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:48.360 Yeah, La Leche was originally started in the 1950s, and articles say it started in Chicago, 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:53.360 but it is headquartered currently in North Carolina, but it did start in the 1950s, and 00:13:53.360 --> 00:14:01.360 Denton got their first La Leche League International group, and it was started in 1968. 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:06.360 And I actually knew one of the members. 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:12.360 Maybe something fun to add to the narrative. 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:17.360 And then moving on to approval criteria K and L, there was a lot of information about 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:21.360 these two families in your back up, so I'm not going to dig too deep into it, but I wanted 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:25.360 to provide some of the article snippets from here, but they were both the Sheppard family, 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:29.360 who are those original property owners, and then the Hall family, who were the fifth owners 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.360 of the property. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.360 The Sheppard family did contribute a lot to the education system in North Texas. 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:41.360 The sons were professors, the husband was a professor for what is now Texas A&M Commerce. 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:47.360 So they've had a lot of influence in the North Texas region education system, which is wonderful. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:52.360 They also owned multiple properties along Marietta Street for the time, which is very 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.360 interesting in itself. 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:59.360 And then the Hall family, they were heavily involved with UNT and in Denton. 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:05.360 They did have a printing press that they ran until the mid-1940s, and they also assisted 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:12.360 with the Yucca yearbook at UNT, and they were also owners of more than one property along 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.360 Marietta Street at that time. 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:21.360 So going through all of that stack analysis and those three criteria that staff is looking 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:27.360 at, it is consistent with our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan, as well as our Denton 2040 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:34.360 Comprehensive Plan, specifically looking at goal number one, policy 1.3, which is prioritization 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.360 and designating eligible buildings and areas for potential landmarks and historic districts, 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.360 especially National Register. 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:46.360 And then our goal CC2, which is our community character goal, and that is preserving and 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:52.360 maintaining the unique character of Denton for long-term sustainment of community character. 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:57.360 So staff is recommending approval of the requests for the Historic Landmark Designation at 314 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.360 Marietta. 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.360 It is consistent with our goals and our objectives of the Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan, as 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.360 well as our 2019 Preservation Plan, and it does meet our criteria for Historic Landmark 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:13.360 Designation in our section 2.9.4B of the DDC. 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.360 Any questions? 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.360 Does anyone have any questions? 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.360 And we do have the app in here, if you do have any questions for the app. 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:21.360 I do. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.360 Yes, Travis. 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:28.360 I have a question, which I think this is wonderful, and I'm glad that you made the application 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:29.360 for it. 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:36.360 My only question is, is there anything in there with it being under construction, with 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.360 it adding on? 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:40.360 Does that do anything to it? 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:41.360 I'm all for this. 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.360 I just want to make sure. 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:48.360 So currently, any building permits that are in process do have to be put on pause until 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.360 this process is completed. 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:56.360 But in terms of staff analysis, the closest thing that it would come to affecting, per 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:01.360 se, is that character and interest, but really, it's preserving that entire structure. 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:05.360 And so that is definitely something that is going to be made. 00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:11.360 As staff, I'm going to make Planning and Zoning Commission aware. 00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:17.360 I'm going to make City Council aware that we're still telling that history of development. 00:17:17.360 --> 00:17:23.360 The house is remaining, and you're going to see that neighborhood develop over time. 00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:29.360 And so that really, it's of character and interest and value in that storytelling process, 00:17:29.360 --> 00:17:32.360 and it still is preserving that original structure. 00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:39.360 So I don't see it being an issue, but the building permit is on pause. 00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:40.360 Okay. 00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:41.360 Thank you for that. 00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:48.360 And then just so we not let our new commissioners know what the designation means, like what's 00:17:48.360 --> 00:17:51.360 the benefit for them and what that means. 00:17:51.360 --> 00:17:53.360 Is that going off posting? 00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:55.360 Or is that okay? 00:17:55.360 --> 00:17:56.360 Yeah, that's fine. 00:17:56.360 --> 00:17:57.360 Okay. 00:17:57.360 --> 00:17:59.360 So I wanted to make sure. 00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:07.360 So the Denton Landmark Historic Designation, it does get you a plaque, and you do get added 00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:16.360 to our Discover Denton Historic Landmarks map that is online, as well as there are tax 00:18:16.360 --> 00:18:17.360 incentives that come with this. 00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:24.360 You can get up to 50% of your assessed property value for 10 years, and then you can keep 00:18:24.360 --> 00:18:28.360 reapplying depending on if you continue to make improvements and maintenance to the property. 00:18:28.360 --> 00:18:31.360 So you can reapply every 10 years. 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:33.360 And then I think Tina. 00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:36.360 I was just on your previous question, which by the way, Tina Fergens. 00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:38.360 I'm the Deputy Director of Development Services here. 00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:43.360 And so I think to Cameron's point earlier in answer to your question, also Angie Cameron, 00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:47.360 I had a fair amount of conversation related to this because I asked a similar question 00:18:47.360 --> 00:18:49.360 with the building addition being added. 00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:53.360 You know, I think if the original structure was being substantially altered where we were 00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:57.360 not able to recognize the original structure, then we might be having a different conversation 00:18:57.360 --> 00:18:59.360 regarding this local designation. 00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:05.360 But because the property owner has gone to significant lengths to be able to preserve 00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:09.360 and make readily available to Cameron's point about being able to preserve the ability of 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:14.360 telling the story and the education of that original structure, the proposed building 00:19:14.360 --> 00:19:20.360 addition still complements and does not impact the designation opportunity for the property. 00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:29.360 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think with the designation comes more where they couldn't 00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:31.360 demolish it later on. 00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:35.360 It really does preserve that structure. 00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:39.360 And I mean, they'd have to go through a lot to do that. 00:19:39.360 --> 00:19:42.360 That's a benefit for the city. 00:19:42.360 --> 00:19:46.360 But also for you because that gives you also kind of a legacy project as well. 00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:49.360 Now you're connected. 00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:53.360 So this history is very real and tangible. 00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:55.360 I have sort of a general question. 00:19:55.360 --> 00:20:03.360 When we look at this, is there, you know, you're kind of hitting on three criteria that are 00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:05.360 being met by the specific property. 00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:11.360 Is there an ideal number when you're looking for something like this or is even just hitting 00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:13.360 one criteria plenty? 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:15.360 So it's at minimum just one. 00:20:15.360 --> 00:20:18.360 So a minimum of one, there are 13 criteria total. 00:20:18.360 --> 00:20:23.360 So a property owner could come in tomorrow and say, hey, I meet this criteria. 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:25.360 I'm sticking with this criteria. 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:30.360 But as staff, we also review to see if there's any additional that they do qualify for that we 00:20:30.360 --> 00:20:37.360 just, you know, can give additional backup or evidence for to support them through this process. 00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:40.360 Because as you all know, it is a three step process. 00:20:40.360 --> 00:20:41.360 It goes through HLC. 00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:44.360 Then you all make a recommendation to PNZ and city council. 00:20:44.360 --> 00:20:47.360 And then there's a PNZ and they make a recommendation to city council. 00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:48.360 So it is a process. 00:20:48.360 --> 00:20:55.360 So I think, you know, it is stated that the property meets one or more the following 13. 00:20:55.360 --> 00:21:03.360 So it's at minimum one, but it doesn't hurt, you know, the applicant to add more. 00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:09.360 I mean, I would stretch it and say you can probably add L there, too. 00:21:09.360 --> 00:21:10.360 Were you? 00:21:10.360 --> 00:21:13.360 You could probably add more. 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:16.360 Yeah, because adding that value. 00:21:16.360 --> 00:21:21.360 I just want to go on record as saying I find this particularly commendable because of willingness 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:27.360 to both maintain the kind of regional integrity and intent of that structure, but also add to it. 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:34.360 And I feel like, again, as we mentioned prior, love to have you give a bit whenever you get this completed 00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:39.360 and for us to show like, hey, this is this is kind of what we're striving to do. 00:21:39.360 --> 00:21:41.360 We're striving to value add it, right? 00:21:41.360 --> 00:21:45.360 So it becomes a legacy project for you as well. 00:21:45.360 --> 00:21:53.360 And add to that it's delaying his building, he's having to get this first if it's put those on hold. 00:21:53.360 --> 00:21:55.360 But I think it's worth it. 00:21:55.360 --> 00:21:57.360 I appreciate it. 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:01.360 And I think it was Mrs. J.D. Hall. 00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:06.360 I have a vague memory of this because it's so long ago. 00:22:06.360 --> 00:22:07.360 She's in your packet. 00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:08.360 Sorry, J.D. Hall. 00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:10.360 Sorry. 00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:12.360 But I remember her. 00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:13.360 OK. 00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:20.360 And in addition to the LaLaja League, and I know one of the members of the league way back when. 00:22:20.360 --> 00:22:21.360 OK. 00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:32.360 When they were just scandalous women. 00:22:32.360 --> 00:22:37.360 But I think she would be very pleased. 00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:38.360 All right. 00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:42.360 Any other discussion or questions? 00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:44.360 Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:53.360 So if you all have any recommendations, if you if you do decide to approve or whatever next steps, you can provide me additional information. 00:22:53.360 --> 00:23:00.360 Just saying, hey, Cameron, we would recommend moving on to as we go to the next process that you add this and this based off what you reviewed in the packet. 00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:04.360 That might be helpful because I you guys did mention else. 00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:11.360 So if you feel like it is something that needs to be added, you can make that recommendation here to staff. 00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:13.360 So like in the form of a motion. 00:23:13.360 --> 00:23:14.360 Yes. 00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:15.360 Sorry, yes. 00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:16.360 Sorry. 00:23:16.360 --> 00:23:21.360 You recommend approval with adding item L to the approval criteria. 00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:23.360 Something to that effect. 00:23:23.360 --> 00:23:25.360 Thank you, Tina. 00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:27.360 To give you an example. 00:23:27.360 --> 00:23:32.360 That could just be an extra benefit for the other needs. 00:23:32.360 --> 00:23:36.360 I'll pass the motion in and say that CEDA is also meeting criteria L. 00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:38.360 So perhaps add that to it. 00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:41.360 It's just Louisiana, they call it land yet. 00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:42.360 Right. 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:48.360 There's an additional benefit. 00:23:48.360 --> 00:23:58.360 And going forward, you have to mention that maybe in the interpretive literature talk about how this is a great vision for didn't going forward. 00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:00.360 So that's a motion by Sean. 00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:02.360 Long winded one, I guess. 00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:03.360 And I will second it. 00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:06.360 And Lenny is going to second it. 00:24:06.360 --> 00:24:11.360 All in favor. 00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:14.360 Thank you very much. 00:24:14.360 --> 00:24:23.360 Thank you. 00:24:23.360 --> 00:24:24.360 One down. 00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:25.360 Two more to go. 00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:26.360 Thank you. 00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:28.360 Sure. 00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:44.360 All right, item three a we have our work session now for HLC two three dash zero five five on our agenda is to receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding priorities that prioritizing that 00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:50.360 historic landmark commission's work plan actions for 2024. 00:24:50.360 --> 00:25:01.360 Any other discussion. 00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:02.360 Thank you, Chair. 00:25:02.360 --> 00:25:10.360 So this is just going to be an overview real quick of what we accomplished as a group here at HLC accomplished in 2023. 00:25:10.360 --> 00:25:17.360 But then also we'll be moving on to the 2024 work plan and what you all want to accomplish in the next year. 00:25:17.360 --> 00:25:25.360 So 2023 overview, we did receive a total of 10 certificates of appropriateness. 00:25:25.360 --> 00:25:32.360 HLC reviewed only three of those and myself as the historic preservation officer reviewed seven. 00:25:32.360 --> 00:25:43.360 Most of those were related to either sign permits or fencing and ordinary maintenance which are all administratively approved approved. 00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:48.360 Historic tax exemptions surprising compared to our 2022. 00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:50.360 I think we had three or four in 2022. 00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:52.360 This year we only had one. 00:25:52.360 --> 00:25:54.360 So that was a little low. 00:25:54.360 --> 00:25:59.360 And then in terms of special topic items covered in 2022, we had 14. 00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:01.360 This year we had nine. 00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:07.360 We covered the plan division area plan so that Southeast Denton Northeast and then the sign downtown. 00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:11.360 We talked about the historic designation letter. 00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:17.360 We also had building safety come and talk to us about solar panels and kind of that review process that they go through. 00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:21.360 You also had discussions about public outreach and education. 00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:25.360 The code of ordinance specifically related to the Historic Landmark Commission. 00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:33.360 Marcella gave us a great training earlier this year, the camp training, and that was about it. 00:26:33.360 --> 00:26:41.360 So we did a lot, but we did see fewer COAs come in and we did see fewer historic tax exemptions. 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:45.360 So moving on to 2024 work plan. 00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:50.360 As you probably all saw in the packet, but I wanted to make sure to highlight them here. 00:26:50.360 --> 00:26:57.360 As we go through the implemented ongoing from 2023, that means that it was started in 2022. 00:26:57.360 --> 00:26:59.360 It's just an ongoing process. 00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:04.360 Continued from 2023, that means that nothing was really done in 2022. 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:06.360 So it's a continuation. 00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:10.360 And then you'll see a few new recommendations. 00:27:10.360 --> 00:27:21.360 So the first goal is that goal one policy 1.3 recommendation 1.8 from the 2019 historic preservation plan. 00:27:21.360 --> 00:27:32.360 And that is to prepare an annual study list of potential landmarks and districts, which we've now incorporated into our as part of our agenda each month in terms of designating properties. 00:27:32.360 --> 00:27:55.360 In terms of this goal, we did have 5 properties added to that list this year, and that destination interest letter was created and sent to each of those properties, but we did not receive any responses. So taking note and maybe lessons learned from that, but it's an ongoing process. 00:27:55.360 --> 00:28:08.360 Moving on to our goal 2 policy 2.1 recommendation 2.1. This was continued from 2023. That was broadening the tax exemption eligibility criteria for improvements to historic buildings. 00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:18.360 We did not have the opportunity to touch on that in 2022. So that is something that staff has brought back in front of you all to consider. 00:28:18.360 --> 00:28:28.360 Goal 2 policy 2.1 recommendation 2.2. So this is a new work plan that staff is recommending that we undertake. 00:28:28.360 --> 00:28:54.360 And that is in addition to this goal policy 2.1 recommendation 2.1 is to explore program allowing for the partial or full property tax exemption from the City of Denton and other applicable taxing authorities for locally designated historic homes. So one of the things that staff is hearing a lot of, and then I'm sure you all have heard in passing with certificates of appropriateness that you've reviewed. 00:28:54.360 --> 00:29:06.360 A lot of people are disappointed by the tax assumptions that are currently provided for the city by the city for residential property owners, specifically for owner occupied properties. 00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:19.360 A lot of people feel that the commercial buildings, they have both state and federal tax assumptions at their fingertips, but residential owner occupied buildings do not. 00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:26.360 So that is something that staff wanted to bring forward as well as something maybe to discuss in 2024. 00:29:26.360 --> 00:29:41.360 Another goal that was implemented, but is ongoing from 2022 or from 2023. Sorry, apologies. That is complete designation reports for landmarks and districts. So once again, that ties to our reoccurring agenda item that we have each month. 00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:55.360 And then we have three more, I promise. I'm trying not to be too long winded, but this is from goal number three, policy 3.2 recommendation 3.7 also continued. 00:29:55.360 --> 00:30:05.360 It is the update to our dental historic preservation ordinance to promote clarity and certificate of appropriateness procedures and historic landmark commission responsibilities among other ordinance enhancements. 00:30:05.360 --> 00:30:19.360 So that is something that we had wanted to do in 2022 with the creation of subcommittees. We weren't able to get to in 2023 just because of volunteer hours and the resignation of some due to health concerns. 00:30:19.360 --> 00:30:32.360 So staff has continued to add that to this year's work plan. If you all consider it. I think we did part of it. Part of it in 2022, 2023 because we did that. 00:30:32.360 --> 00:30:43.360 It was actually was that well, no. Well, solar was 2023, but the last time we met in person was 2022. Yeah, I know it's crazy. Time is flying. 00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:57.360 But I take that solar one as a win. No, yes. The solar one was a win. I definitely agree. I think that's good. Cameron, we had also discussed we thought this would be good to work on this year, especially with new commissioners being appointed to the commission. 00:30:57.360 --> 00:31:03.360 So we thought this would be a value, especially getting your insight on that as well. 00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:25.360 Definitely. And then the two additional goals or recommendations, those are new for 2024. So is to create a marketing plan to encourage additional local landmark destinations and then provide training to local realtors and bankers regarding what HLC does with the Historic Preservation Officer does and then local destinations as well. 00:31:25.360 --> 00:31:42.360 So these are up for discussion and you all are getting to vote and determine what you all want work for your 2024 work plan. But this is what staff has brought forward and based off feedback from the public and then other topics we've discussed. 00:31:42.360 --> 00:32:01.360 I have a question. Yes. So the new for new to 24. Yes, that goal to on the partial or full property exemption for a designated historic homes for locally, I really think that ties into the next page. 00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:16.360 So if goes into number four, to encourage people to want to do that. I think what we had here tonight is a great win for that on the benefit that he is going to get but that would even be a larger one. 00:32:16.360 --> 00:32:34.360 I think it's imperative that we work on my opinion on that one. I might further comment that to me from like a training perspective. Tonight's presentation and this particular example can also make a great illustrative example for goal number three. 00:32:34.360 --> 00:32:47.360 I'm sorry, not go number three, the one for further training to show. Yeah, realtors and bankers. That's right. Goal number four. So what happens is they then get something specific that's illustrative. 00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:57.360 Instead of trying to read tea leaves or read our minds. Does that make sense. You give them a specific example and say, Look, here is, here's an example where it maintains the original integrity. 00:32:57.360 --> 00:33:10.360 But now it's added value. Right. So it's added this value to it. So that that those three things might be able to be kind of connected into one easy win. Does that make sense. 00:33:10.360 --> 00:33:29.360 So essentially taking these two goals and combining with these. Well, I think they kind of. Yeah. I think you get that one. Which one. I think if you can get the partial or full tax. It'll affect the rest. I think yes. 00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:41.360 But even even if you didn't, even with the win we have tonight, I think it can. But I think that that is huge. So we might just tell our new ones what it is, what the benefit is. 00:33:41.360 --> 00:33:59.360 Should we do this? Ten thousand dollar. Yes. Minimum is a ten thousand dollar value that they receive for going for historic. So they have to spend a minimum of ten thousand dollars to make to maintain or improve their property. 00:33:59.360 --> 00:34:13.360 And then they'll can receive up to fifty percent of their assessed property value off for the next ten years. But you have to reapply every ten years. But that's the only tax that is available to designated properties. 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:29.360 So that can apply to both commercial and owner occupied city tax. Right. It's not all taxing. Right. No, no. Yeah. It's only city. We're only talking about city. Yeah. We're not talking about state or federal. We're only talking about city because that's the only thing we have control over is city. 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:48.360 We're talking about potential landmarks when we the letters that we've sent out for that, there's really not a benefit for people to do that. They just say this in general. They look at it more as I'm going to sign up for you to tell me what I can and cannot do. 00:34:48.360 --> 00:35:03.360 But they don't get a benefit. But if you go up to where they get a benefit of a partial or full tax, you know, exemption, that's, you know, maybe people would read that letter again. 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:22.360 I wonder if we if the commission could be maybe in neighborhoods sometime, maybe a couple of times a year, pick a neighborhood that has some structures that might might fit our criteria. 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:46.360 And if we hold a meeting there and if we open to the public to really explain and they could see an example of what we were talking about, we can we could focus on a structure in that neighborhood or more than one structure and tell them what could happen with that structure. 00:35:46.360 --> 00:36:05.360 Well, when he can ask you a question, if you were once, I'm just asking you just to pick your brain. If you were to take a couple of favorite targets that like, hey, you know that church can build a veranda or a yard or a playground or something that might be low hanging fruit as an example. 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:17.360 Does that make sense? Like, we could approach them and say, hey, we have an idea. This is just an idea. But, you know, if you're willing, like, here's, here's, here's what that might look like. 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:36.360 In other words, to have some type of pilot project or potential, you know, favorite to develop it. Do you have any that would hit you as maybe a need of some historic preservation. I know the AME had a roof problem. They still got a roof problem over there. They were trying to raise a bunch of money for that. 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:53.360 So they had a whole church problem. But that probably wouldn't benefit them because they're tax exempt anyway. But it's, it's, we could use it as an example, I think, of what some of the older structure could do. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:07.360 You know, maybe we could drop, you could drive around and spot a project, decide on a neighborhood, drive around and see what's there. We have a lot of eligible properties on our historic resource survey map. 00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:23.360 Yes, yes. So we have that all, we have that at our fingertips. All eligible properties. I just think that people really don't know what this will do for the most part. 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:40.360 And I think if we sat down with them and explained in a non-threatening atmosphere where they didn't think we were out to get them, you know, they might hear better and it might be better received in the future, at least. 00:37:40.360 --> 00:38:04.360 I was going to say I definitely agree with you. I think just having conversations, a lot of one-on-one conversations with property owners, for instance, Mr. Rigsby there and I've talked to some other property owners who have come to me stating that they're interested in getting their property designated, but they really said it comes all down to the tax incentives. 00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:28.360 They said that the major thing is that right now the city is essentially asking property owners to preserve parts of debt and history, but they're not incentivizing people enough because what they're saving in terms of taxes is still not going to get them a new roof, it's not going to get them new flooring, it's not going to get them what they need to maintain the historic structure. 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:57.360 So I've talked to, Tina's been a part of a lot of those conversations when I've come to her having those conversations with the property owners, a lot of them have just said, hey, we want to designate, but we're not going to do it until you give us more incentive to because you're one already wanting us to come in front of the Historic Landmark Commission, which they said that's not bad as long as we get to know them and there's more transparency and we understand the, we're educated more about what that process looks like. 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:16.360 But they said it all comes down to money, due to the fact that the economy is changing, things are becoming more expensive, homeownership is becoming more expensive, and they feel that the commercial properties are the ones who are winning at the local, state, and national level where the owner-occupied structures are really lacking. 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:35.360 And so that is what I've probably heard, I think at least. To Cameron's point, I think with that recommendation to point to, I think we could explore what some other communities are doing to help with offering greater incentives. 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:50.360 Obviously, we've heard from a few property owners that the ability to expand the tax, you know, look to see if that be something that the school district would be interested in, because let's face it, typically the largest chunk of a tax bill is the school taxes. 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:59.360 But if the school district were to participate in understanding, okay, for them, they'll look at it from a perspective of what is the lost revenue that we might not be collecting with respect to the historic properties. 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:17.360 So that could be one example. But I think with this, we can also look at what other communities are doing in addition to see what additional incentives are they offering to help people want to pursue the local destinations and really truly understand the value associated with it. 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:32.360 So I think to Cameron's point, historic resources that are used for commercial purposes, they're getting an opportunity to have much more benefit associated with it compared to someone who has chosen to preserve a residential structure, right? 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:51.360 So I think there might be some further opportunities, but I find it interesting that we've had several property owners come to us recently and expressing that similar concern. And so hence why in talking to Cameron, we felt it was appropriate to add this particular recommendation item on there and see what options are available. 00:40:51.360 --> 00:41:09.360 If we are looking at other tax exemptions, then that will be coordinating with the city manager's office and council and those that are in decision-making positions as it relates to whether that's the school board or if the county is involved in any capacity on how we might be able to explore those. 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:34.360 But we felt like it was worthwhile to be able to at least put it on our work plan, explore this further, and see where it goes. I mean, we could have a positive outcome at the end of it, or it could be, you know, we're not able to address this particular item for these reasons, but at least it gets the conversations also going about what other options are out there from an incentive standpoint to encourage people to pursue the local destinations. 00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:44.360 We don't know if we don't ask, if we don't pursue it. So to your question, I think what you have for the 2024 work plan works well for us to work on. 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:49.360 Anyone else have any? No, I agree. I like it. 00:41:49.360 --> 00:42:02.360 And just by way of like kind of a personal anecdote, I know the e-bike rebate program was an interesting program that the city has because I have a friend who actually took advantage of that. 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:09.360 And they got enough of a significant rebate that it basically paid for like 85% of the bike that she got. 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:32.360 But what happened was that rebate to her was in public utilities in the city. And that ain't nothing, as they say. So to think about something comparable, right, because I like the idea of finding some way to incentivize it that also provides them with like an immediate kind of benefit. 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:45.360 And they clearly see the value is like, oh, well, that does translate to dollars and cents for me. And yet we have the number is like four or five, I mean, God forbid, 10 in a year. 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:54.360 You know what I mean? Revenue lost versus, you know, word of mouth and positive examples gained is going to be, I think, a huge one. 00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:11.360 So just throw that out there. As the owner of one of these homes, I would be ecstatic to go for a designation of mine if I had admitted that. Just saying. Just saying. 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:30.360 Yes, just figured out the right combination of carrots, right? And as you'll see in the matrix, staff is going to bring something forward regarding this discussion in February. 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:48.360 Do we need a motion? Do we need to have a motion? Let's do it. All right. Turn the page. Okay, do we have a motion to approve our 2024 working, what do we call this? 00:43:48.360 --> 00:44:02.360 Work Plan. Work Plan. I shall move. I'll second. So Sean and Melanie second. All in favor raise your hand. Any opposition? All right. Passes. 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:22.360 Let's move on to item 3B, number HLC 23-052. On our agendas to receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction on the historic landmark. I'm going to get the commissioner's request for local historic designation of eligibility. Am I on the wrong one? 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:27.360 Nope, you're on the right one. 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:38.360 So on this one, we were looking for if anyone had anyone to bring forward, if you saw any properties that we wanted to put on the list. 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:49.360 We might find eligible. Anybody have a new one? Yeah, I was just saying. Do you want us to tell you what it is that we're talking about? Sure. 00:44:49.360 --> 00:45:12.360 So if you've ever watched city council with their two minute pitches, it's a similar concept where each month this is going to be a reoccurring agenda item where the commissioners have the opportunity to bring a property for that they think is worthy of designation or eligible for a designation. 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:26.360 And you give a two minute pitch about that property, stating why you think it's significant, why you think it needs to be designated, preserved, and then everyone will take a vote and then it will get added to a living list. 00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:42.360 And this list will just continue to grow. And that's where that historic designation letter would be sent to the property owner, telling them, you know, the Historic Landmark Commission has interest in designating your property. Here are the benefits at the local, state, and national level. 00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:58.360 And yeah, so we added this back in November of 2022. So it's just a reoccurring item you'll see each month, so it's not able to go away. So Cameron, would you say in terms of a comparison? I don't understand. 00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:12.360 Similar to this evening where this evening's request was property owner initiated for local designation, this would be commissioner initiated. Correct, yes. 00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:28.360 The ones that you mentioned earlier in the report that she had on how many letters had gone out, that was based from that, from what commissioners had brought forward. 00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:45.360 Yes, and I have to say after this meeting I will resend the historic, it is part of the exhibits, but it might just be nice to have it in email form and not on the agenda. So everyone can look and start to see if there's any eligible properties. 00:46:45.360 --> 00:47:01.360 All right, so no one has anything? I might have something. So the Evers Farm development that is up for in front of City Council, they're trying to develop a plan. 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:12.360 I was asked by one of the local historians here, Chelsea Stallings, maybe you know her, she's one of the thesis writers who actually did some of the recovered history of the Klan in Denton County. 00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:25.360 So she kind of sent me, she asked me to go do a walkabout on the Boy Scouts of America part of that parcel to see if there was any evidence of the possible cemetery. 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:30.360 Through her historic work it was something that came up that kind of stuck with her. 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:42.360 And she, she knows I live up in that neck of the woods and she's like, hey, you want to go have a look about. Yeah, thank you, you're pulling it up there. 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.360 So at the north end of Locust. 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:56.360 So I've got a series of photos actually tried to email it to Councilman Beck and to you Cameron, just to have a look see some of the photographs I took or whatever. 00:47:56.360 --> 00:48:09.360 Okay. I've just had some training from working with old graveyards right like things you look for a little sign to whatever. There might be some possible broken off fieldstone grave markers in that area. 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:20.360 Behind the Boy Scout unit that they have built there very close to the fence, close to the gate that's adjacent to the property. 00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:33.360 So it could be something else I mean I grew up on a farm it could be some type of farm structure or whatever but these were definitely very thin fieldstone, the width, and the length was kind of on par. 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:49.360 And I'm not sure I myself I'm not sure historically what was there before the Evers brothers bought that property. Now of course the history of that is that Evers farm because they had a complete pecan orchard behind them for almost 400 acres, right. 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:55.360 And of course they came here in 1885 and bought out the Evers hardware store. 00:48:55.360 --> 00:49:15.360 So I mean that's late in the game, in terms of like, would that be like a possible slaves graveside or perhaps yeoman farmers graveside, but I don't know I was going to ask if there had been any historical surveys done there of that nature. 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:23.360 Because I was able to go back to like the Evers but not nothing like prior like who owned that property prior. 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:38.360 I was in the library last weekend and I went into some of their files and I found some 1970 like property atlas that suggested. 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:51.360 So this is the historic resource survey map. And so these dots represent all eligible properties from our 1996 2012 and 2015 surveys that were completed. 00:49:51.360 --> 00:50:11.360 So you can see 1996 historic resource are high, medium 2012 and 2015. So the Evers farm is actually a high priority. It says it was 1900 domestic modified L plan, and it would. 00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:27.360 So, do you have interest in wanting the historic landmark Commission to reach out to that new developer and see if they'd be interested in designating or you just stating in general that it'd be interesting to know more of the history. 00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:41.360 I would be more interested in knowing the prior history before the Evers arriving there, who might have been that settlement like if they bought that settlement who they bought that from. 00:50:41.360 --> 00:51:01.360 But also the honestly the pre Civil War significance like other people buried up there, because there could potentially be a graveyard in that spot. And I, I don't know that anything has ever been surveyed on that spot for that reason. 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:15.360 So that's why if we're making a wish list of things that we would like to see about putting up there. I know that a developer has that another currently trying to create plans for developing that. 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:32.360 I feel like this might be a worthwhile conversation to have. I've made note of that for the conversation itself and doing kind of the research, we would not add it to the living list per se because it's more specific designation. 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:47.360 But yeah, I definitely made note of it so I'll share my photos with you. Perfect. Yeah, you want to go up there and have a walk about what I'm seeing up there. 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:51.360 All right, anyone else. 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.360 Thank you, Sean. All right. 00:51:53.360 --> 00:52:02.360 Let's move on and see. 00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:13.360 Item 3C number HLC 23-053 on the agenda is to hold a discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:31.360 Thank you. So these are the requests that we have. Staff is planning on bringing the kind of economic impact of preserving historic properties, as well as a discussion regarding benefits for preserving historic properties and how other cities are incentivizing owners. 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:35.360 So those are both going to come back in February. 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:47.360 We did have that request for presentation of preliminary guidelines, so that has just remained on there. Obviously it was not presented in 2023 so we need to update that. 00:52:47.360 --> 00:53:00.360 Items for Historic Landmark Commission consideration. These are two items that myself as a historic preservation officer put together in late December of this past year. 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:14.360 And this would be a walking tour of historic districts and landmarks to familiarize HLC with properties that they have jurisdiction over, as well as a focus group of historic property owners to discuss present historic preservation procedures and incentives. 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:31.360 So those are two items for consideration. You would have to vote. We would need a minimum of three votes to add that to our actual request and move that up. And then obviously the annual update regarding those different work plan goals from 2023. 00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:48.360 Yeah, let's move that up. So I will make a motion that we need those two items under the consideration up into requests. 00:53:48.360 --> 00:54:04.360 We need a minimum of three. 00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:19.360 So, and then obviously we were future HLC meetings, they're just going to continue to be listed here for the remainder of the year. 00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:45.360 Anything else. Is there any benefit of the possibility of limiting changes to a structure to the churches in southeast and might qualify our designation as historic landmarks, since they already as a church. 00:54:45.360 --> 00:55:04.360 So there are benefits at the state level for churches for religious organizations, and that was included in their destination letter. 00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:29.360 Can I ask if anyone from this body is going to be able to attend the Quaker town thing that's happening on Saturday. 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:44.360 No, no, it's okay. We're just making sure. Okay, so that that would be concluding. Yes. Yes. So suggest that there's an event about Quaker town the kind of end of the commemoration is happening on Saturday. 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:59.360 We're planning to attend. We might have a, maybe a couple of us a group of us could go and approach some of the people from these churches and like give them kind of the one on one about possible historic and hey did you. 00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:01.360 In case you missed it. 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:05.360 Here's the handoff of the cool packet stuff and let me give you the elevator. 00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:20.360 Okay, tell me we can post notice of possible quorum. Okay. Yep. Yeah, so glad you said that event right. Yeah, just post that for just we have to, you know, which I think is a great idea. 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:22.360 I didn't know about it. 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:25.360 I didn't know about it either. 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:30.360 Yeah, so, yeah, the newspaper we lots of things we don't know about. 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.360 Yeah. Right. 00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:36.360 So yeah, so that's happening. I will. 00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:41.360 Dang it it's on my downtown or Facebook or sharing the heck out of it. 00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:46.360 So yeah, so it's the end of celebration for the. 00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:59.360 What is it the sesquicentennial I can't remember, but it's, it's, it's the formal thing so it's kind of the last meeting, they're telling the Quaker town story you're also going to have folks I believe they're doing that Quaker town documentary there 00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:08.360 to try to solicit people for interviews, and things to for that. So, that's happening this Saturday at. 00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:14.360 Get out my robot brain sorry. 00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:18.360 Saturday the 13th, it's called Quaker town speaks. 00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:22.360 It'll be at 10am and I was wrong, it's at the Denton Civic Center. 00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:26.360 Quaker town speaks is what the name of the event is. 00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:35.360 It's put on through the, the library, and also some of the Quaker town committee. 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:37.360 Thank you for that. 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:41.360 So y'all can post for possible. 00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:47.360 I don't know if you have one or not, but it'd be safe I think to do a lazy song. 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:57.360 Love it. 00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:08.360 That way to just kind of show them and kind of run a highlighter over for him sometimes that for me that works better in terms of getting their attention. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm happy. 00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:21.360 I unfortunately cannot attend on Saturday, but I'm happy to get those materials printed tomorrow someone wants to come by and I can make sure we get everything highlighted that really needs to draw their attention because there is a grant specifically for African American 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:40.360 Okay, I'll let you know when they're ready. 00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:43.360 Thank you for dinner.