WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.440 >> Good evening. 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:08.020 Welcome to the special citizens bond committee advisory meeting 00:00:08.020 --> 00:00:11.780 for June 13th, 2019. 00:00:11.780 --> 00:00:15.820 It's 6 p.m. and we're going to go ahead and get started. 00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:19.460 I believe we have quorum with at least, 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:22.160 I think now 13 members present. 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:26.200 The first item on the agenda is consideration 00:00:26.200 --> 00:00:31.640 of the meeting minutes from May 30th. 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:35.240 Does anyone have any comments or amendments? 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:36.040 Go ahead. 00:00:36.040 --> 00:00:38.640 >> I'd just like to offer one amendment on page four, 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.140 paragraph three. 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:42.240 It states a discussion followed 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:46.080 on leveraging approximately half a million dollars from federal 00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:47.860 and state matching dollars. 00:00:47.860 --> 00:00:49.920 I believe that is the wrong amount. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.960 So I would suggest a discussion followed on leveraging bond funds 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.760 with 275 million federal and state dollars 00:00:56.760 --> 00:01:00.660 for a total expenditure of roughly half a billion dollars. 00:01:00.660 --> 00:01:02.540 >> Thank you for that correction. 00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:05.840 Any other comments regarding that? 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:09.900 Okay. Any other general comments 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:13.840 about meeting minutes for May 30th? 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:15.080 Would anyone like to make a motion 00:01:15.080 --> 00:01:17.980 to approve the minutes as amended? 00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:18.880 >> So moved. 00:01:18.880 --> 00:01:20.080 >> Second. 00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:21.080 >> All right. 00:01:21.080 --> 00:01:22.080 >> All in favor. 00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:22.980 Any other comments or questions? 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:29.660 [ Inaudible ] 00:01:29.660 --> 00:01:30.660 >> Any -- all right. 00:01:30.660 --> 00:01:33.060 All in favor, say aye. 00:01:33.060 --> 00:01:34.060 >> Aye. 00:01:34.060 --> 00:01:36.060 >> Any opposed, same sign. 00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:37.360 Minutes are approved. 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:38.360 All right. 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:41.740 Next is -- this is going to be a heavy lift tonight. 00:01:41.740 --> 00:01:45.240 We got a lot of information to cover. 00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:48.800 So we are going to take a break at a good breaking point 00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:53.720 around 7 to rest our brains and our backsides for a minute. 00:01:53.720 --> 00:01:57.060 And then we'll press on but we may go a little long tonight. 00:01:57.060 --> 00:02:00.720 So there may not -- every question may not get answered 00:02:00.720 --> 00:02:03.860 and the staff will be definitely tracking questions. 00:02:03.860 --> 00:02:11.260 So this is the time to dig deep into these projects and feel free 00:02:11.260 --> 00:02:15.980 to do your best to help thoroughly understand what is 00:02:15.980 --> 00:02:16.840 being discussed. 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:19.100 I'm going to turn it over to David. 00:02:19.100 --> 00:02:21.900 >> Sure. I'll just give a -- David Gaines, director of finance, 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:23.680 give a brief introduction. 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:24.980 As we head into this presentation, 00:02:24.980 --> 00:02:27.080 this presentation is going to be slightly different 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:29.140 than the one that was on the agenda. 00:02:29.140 --> 00:02:32.980 As we go along this process, we're going to sometimes -- 00:02:32.980 --> 00:02:36.380 costs are changing and different scopes are changing up to even 00:02:36.380 --> 00:02:40.460 today with some of the roads that are on in the presentation. 00:02:40.460 --> 00:02:42.300 So as Todd as this goes through the presentation, 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:44.220 he'll point out some of those differences. 00:02:44.220 --> 00:02:48.000 But just so you're aware, there's a few new slides and a few changes 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.240 on the slides that were previously presented. 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.700 Following the meeting, we'll get those up later on the website 00:02:52.700 --> 00:02:55.700 and have the agenda uploaded with the new presentation as well. 00:02:55.700 --> 00:02:57.940 I'll turn it over to Todd Hellman, 00:02:57.940 --> 00:03:01.340 our city manager for a couple minutes. 00:03:01.340 --> 00:03:04.740 >> I just wanted to clarify tonight, after listening 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:08.080 to your comments at the first meeting, staff went back 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.320 and we've spent the last -- really up until about an hour ago, 00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:14.760 spent the last couple of weeks reprioritizing the streets. 00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:16.820 Somebody -- one of you had asked a question about, you know, 00:03:16.820 --> 00:03:18.560 is there a way to prioritize these asks? 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.600 How would you think through them? 00:03:19.600 --> 00:03:23.560 So you're going to be seeing our thought process tonight. 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.640 And obviously, the ones with the heavy federal leverage are going 00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:29.280 to be the ones that we recommend the most. 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.280 But one of the debates we've been having internally, 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:35.240 and we want to include you in tonight, is just the issue 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:36.680 in terms of the local roads. 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:41.380 We had budgeted about $5 million, roughly a year, 00:03:41.380 --> 00:03:43.420 for the local road program. 00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:45.120 One of the questions that the council continues 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.120 to ask us is, you know, how do we continue moving up 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:52.060 and ratcheting up our OCI, the condition index or the streets? 00:03:52.060 --> 00:03:53.400 And that's always a big issue with them. 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.000 So we went back and I met with the staff last week 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:01.060 and they have been feverishly putting together plans on trying 00:04:01.060 --> 00:04:02.700 to attack those worst streets. 00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:05.780 By the time we were done in five or six years, they've got a couple 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:09.640 of options for you, ways that we could scale the local road program 00:04:09.640 --> 00:04:12.520 that would probably take adding some more money and dropping one 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:14.780 of the other roads out of the picture, 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:16.680 but to make a pretty marked difference. 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.360 So we think that was kind of the question we were asked the first time, 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:23.300 probably something that most people are interested in. 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:26.500 It's also got the advantage of having significant amount 00:04:26.500 --> 00:04:29.440 of work done throughout the various parts of the community. 00:04:29.440 --> 00:04:31.940 So we'd love to get your strategy on that tonight. 00:04:31.940 --> 00:04:35.340 We will go back and rerun scenarios based on your comfort level, 00:04:35.340 --> 00:04:39.340 your questions, but I wanted to at least kind of put a little bit 00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:41.780 of context for how we're thinking this through 00:04:41.780 --> 00:04:44.120 and what we need your feedback on. 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.220 I've also asked Todd, as we're continuing to go 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:50.920 through the design scope on Hickory Creek Road, 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.020 which will eventually tie 2499 into I-35W, 00:04:55.020 --> 00:04:57.800 it's having some significant impacts 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:03.000 on the other major collector roads such as Ryan in terms of how wide, 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:07.400 how much capacity might be needed in the future versus just resurfacing it 00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:09.940 because obviously we're anticipating now 00:05:09.940 --> 00:05:13.140 with the modeling to be moving much more traffic along that four 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:14.580 to six lane highway down the road. 00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:18.380 So that was also part of the reprioritization process, 00:05:18.380 --> 00:05:21.180 thinking you might want to take the strategy we presented first, 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:23.660 maybe in a different route, no pun intended. 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:27.160 So at this point, I just wanted to set that framework there. 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.200 We're going to continue listening to you, 00:05:29.200 --> 00:05:30.900 listening to the feedback that you're giving us. 00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:33.740 We'll continue reprioritizing, running one of scenarios. 00:05:33.740 --> 00:05:36.840 But I wanted to at least provide that context based 00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:39.800 upon your initial comments in that first meeting. 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:45.580 >> Good evening. 00:05:45.580 --> 00:05:46.340 I'm Todd Estes. 00:05:46.340 --> 00:05:47.980 I'm the City Engineer. 00:05:47.980 --> 00:05:50.820 I'm also Director of Capital Projects for a good number 00:05:50.820 --> 00:05:53.980 of these projects we'll get delivered out of. 00:05:53.980 --> 00:05:56.480 We have with us Danny Kramer who's the Deputy Director 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:59.160 for Streets and Drainage Operations. 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:00.200 There's a good reason they're up here. 00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:01.560 They're not in trouble. 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:03.700 But they have a lot of information 00:06:03.700 --> 00:06:05.000 that you might ask tonight. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.040 And then Pritam Deshmukh is the Deputy City Engineer. 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.760 He's over the vast majority of these capital projects 00:06:10.760 --> 00:06:12.240 and he's direct responsible. 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.000 He's making sure they get put in the ground amongst other things. 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.680 So tonight we're going to talk about proposition two, 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.920 more specifically the streets portion. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:29.260 So the biggest drivers for the roadways that we're pushing 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:32.860 to the front of the list here tonight. 00:06:32.860 --> 00:06:35.760 As Todd Howman mentioned, we reprioritized based 00:06:35.760 --> 00:06:39.200 from that list you saw a couple weeks ago what proposition two 00:06:39.200 --> 00:06:44.040 look like, same streets, same roadways, just reprioritized. 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:45.700 So what you'll see tonight is us work 00:06:45.700 --> 00:06:49.000 through what we consider as staff highest priority projects 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.380 to the lowest priority projects on that proposition two. 00:06:52.380 --> 00:06:55.780 Not to say that any one of those projects is not a high priority. 00:06:55.780 --> 00:06:59.620 It's just how do you take top priority one, one, one, one, one and say well, 00:06:59.620 --> 00:07:04.280 which of those has to fall in knowing that we can't even attack all the rest 00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:07.260 of the high priority projects, these are just that high. 00:07:07.260 --> 00:07:10.800 So our prime focus was what are safety improvements? 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:13.060 What are capacity improvements? 00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:17.740 What addresses the mobility and the regional transportation network 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:22.700 that gets our citizens around internally and as well as they leave and go south 00:07:22.700 --> 00:07:27.120 or east or north to wherever they go to work or live during the day. 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:31.320 So unlike what it didn't look like 20, 30 years ago and I had the advantage 00:07:31.320 --> 00:07:37.520 of growing up here so I got to-- I've seen it and it's in all its forms so far. 00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:39.860 But it used to be very much a bedroom community. 00:07:39.860 --> 00:07:46.000 So you lived here, some folks worked here and a lot of folks traveled south to go work. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.540 Now we're a destination, we're a place where people come to work 00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:53.100 and our roads were not really set up for that volume of traffic 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:58.520 and we are suffering from that scenario today and now we're playing catch up. 00:07:58.520 --> 00:08:03.780 So 2012, 2014 bonds, we absolutely started going down that pathway 00:08:03.780 --> 00:08:05.860 but we've got to take the next step here. 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:10.120 And this pushes us down those next avenues, how do we address those capacity, 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.720 the volume scenarios, the mobility throughout the city and the town as well 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.760 as take care of those safety issues, make it a much safer community for folks 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:23.000 to travel whether it's bicycles, walking, motoring in a car, 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:26.540 whatever their preference is. 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:31.080 So as we go through, you're going to see us work through each 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:33.180 of these roadways based on those categories. 00:08:33.180 --> 00:08:38.220 That's really what our focus was, was how does it address those scenarios. 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:42.060 Then it also addresses the thing that I know we've heard for quite a while here 00:08:42.060 --> 00:08:45.400 and then those OCI streets, now low OCI streets. 00:08:45.400 --> 00:08:50.140 So that overall condition index, it's really two components. 00:08:50.140 --> 00:08:52.900 If you go to other cities, there's what they call a PCI, 00:08:52.900 --> 00:08:54.400 it's a pavement condition index. 00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:58.780 So how healthy is the road itself structurally? 00:08:58.780 --> 00:09:00.940 So there's three basic components. 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:04.520 There's the sub grades, the dirt it's built on, how well it's compacted. 00:09:04.520 --> 00:09:06.980 Then there's the base and that's basically the foundation. 00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:10.260 So just like your house has a foundation, so does the road. 00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:14.560 The road surface is only as good as the foundation is. 00:09:14.560 --> 00:09:17.760 And then you've got the top, that's the part we see that we put all the paint 00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:22.160 and everything else on top of and that's the surface course or as we call it, 00:09:22.160 --> 00:09:26.140 that asphalt or you'll see us later, we'll throw out a big engineering term, 00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:32.240 bituminous pavement, it's asphalt, it's all it is, just a big engineering term. 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:36.020 So those are the conditions we're evaluating these projects against 00:09:36.020 --> 00:09:39.620 and trying very hard to figure out all of our needs. 00:09:39.620 --> 00:09:42.760 So you're also going to hear us talk about lane miles. 00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:45.320 You're going to hear us talk about segments. 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.520 So segments, and we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. 00:09:48.520 --> 00:09:52.460 Segments really come down to one intersection to another intersection. 00:09:52.460 --> 00:09:57.260 And if I've got it in our big database of streets and we have a huge database 00:09:57.260 --> 00:10:00.880 of streets, that's the way we start breaking it down for the computer 00:10:00.880 --> 00:10:05.100 to help us analyze how we're going to attack this effort. 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.620 How are we going to go forward with this? 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:14.180 We have over 4,300 segments of roadway, 4,300 segments of roadway 00:10:14.180 --> 00:10:15.860 that we are working through. 00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:17.920 All of them are in different conditions. 00:10:17.920 --> 00:10:19.300 Some of them are very, very good. 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:21.060 We just built them. 00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:25.560 Some of them are really, really bad and nobody's touched them in forever. 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:28.900 So you've got everything in between that we're also trying to attack. 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:32.140 And then when we talk lane miles, lane miles just means 00:10:32.140 --> 00:10:36.080 if you can picture a four lane road, take McKinney right out the street here, 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.240 or right at the window here, there are four lanes there. 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:44.020 So one of the ways we try to quantify productivity for our streets crews 00:10:44.020 --> 00:10:48.060 or our construction, whether it's laying pavement or it's going out 00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:51.860 and doing striping or putting signs down, we talk about lane miles. 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:56.260 That just means I took that street and I said, well, there's four lanes here. 00:10:56.260 --> 00:11:00.060 If I stack all four lanes together into one single lane for a mile, 00:11:00.060 --> 00:11:01.500 that's what we're talking about. 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:05.600 So in the city of Denton, we're responsible for maintaining and operating 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.040 over 1,300 lane miles. 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:11.680 That's a lot of pavement. 00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:14.680 So that's all the context, what we're working under, 00:11:14.680 --> 00:11:19.920 as we try to prioritize what these projects would be. 00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:22.520 So this just reiterates a slide that you have seen before. 00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:25.200 But again, we reprioritize the projects. 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.900 So this was what you saw on May 30th. 00:11:27.900 --> 00:11:34.260 It's what council saw in April, I think twice, maybe three times in work session. 00:11:34.260 --> 00:11:36.340 So what you're seeing is that same slide. 00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:40.280 We've just reprioritized those high priority streets, as we think of them, 00:11:40.280 --> 00:11:42.540 because they do have the maximum amount of dollars 00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:44.540 to leverage from other funding sources. 00:11:44.540 --> 00:11:48.840 So Bonnie Bray phases five, six, and seven. 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.420 It carries us all the way out to loop 288 from scripture. 00:11:52.420 --> 00:11:56.520 That's a long stretch of roadway that will be vital to the community, 00:11:56.520 --> 00:12:00.660 not just when TechStat's working on it, but they are going to be working on I-35 00:12:00.660 --> 00:12:04.160 for the next 10 to 15 years. 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:07.440 That road becomes a very important road for us. 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.840 It's our artery, our lifeline, when I-35 is under construction, north and south. 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.100 If you're trying to get to North Texas and Research Park, 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:18.880 or if you're trying to get to the high school, if you're just trying to get home 00:12:18.880 --> 00:12:22.620 or to shopping or come all the way back down to North Texas main campus, 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:27.920 there's a whole host of things that are all along that one roadway. 00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:32.420 And then it's also got to act as a bypass long over, at least for the next 10 00:12:32.420 --> 00:12:36.220 to 15 years, when I-35 is under construction, it's also got to help divert 00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:39.200 some of that traffic and keep it out of our neighborhoods, 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:44.500 but on a roadway designed to handle that traffic. 00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:47.540 So Hickory Creek, big safety improvement. 00:12:47.540 --> 00:12:49.100 It's also a regional connection. 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:52.480 That's one of the ways we're leveraging those dollars with our partners, 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.540 the Council of Governments, with the state, the county. 00:12:55.540 --> 00:13:01.680 It connects 2499, and we are doing some of that work now from 2499 to 2181, 00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:05.060 and then passed over to River Pass. 00:13:05.060 --> 00:13:08.920 This fills the gap, takes us all the way to 35W, straight as an arrow, 00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:12.460 over the floodplain, over the railroad tracks, get out to 35W. 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:17.200 A lot of your commuter traffic, whether they live here or they work here, 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:24.380 and they're trying to get south, what they do today is they congest Ryan 2181, 1830, 00:13:24.380 --> 00:13:28.440 they go up Hobson, they go around Teasley, they take a variety of avenues. 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:29.920 And what are they trying to do? 00:13:29.920 --> 00:13:33.720 They're trying to get to the interstate, either 35E or 35W, 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.180 and there's no good way to get there. 00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:42.060 So one of the things that we'll talk about here soon is that Ryan's capacity 00:13:42.060 --> 00:13:45.420 was downgraded quite a bit, not because it's not an important road, 00:13:45.420 --> 00:13:49.460 but because Hickory Creek takes such a load off of the surrounding streets 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:52.440 when you go down this pathway. 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.680 And then the other streets, we've reprioritized the street rehab program 00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:58.800 when we get into the local roads that we're talking about, 00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:02.080 as well as Sidewalks, then Robinson, then Ryan, 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.440 and then we're talking Jim Crystal and FM 428. 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.520 And those are on there just as a placeholder to make sure we don't forget 00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:10.060 what efforts are going on at both of those. 00:14:10.060 --> 00:14:12.760 And then street lighting, if we have time for that, 00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:15.900 that's also something that we might want to come back and revisit 00:14:15.900 --> 00:14:20.800 more detail at a different time. 00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:24.260 So one of the prime drivers for these top two projects, 00:14:24.260 --> 00:14:29.200 and really four of the projects on this list, has been development. 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.640 And there are some areas of town that are growing faster than others, 00:14:32.640 --> 00:14:34.840 but we actually have a map on this side. 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:39.440 So in the break, if you want to come and look at them, 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.440 this map right here shows what you're going to see in the next several slides, 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.280 but it's all of the development going on within the city of Denton. 00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:51.400 So if it's green, that's a project that has gone to construction. 00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:54.400 If it's orange, it's about to go to construction. 00:14:54.400 --> 00:14:56.520 They're planning or they're working through the process 00:14:56.520 --> 00:15:01.560 of visiting with folks on staff or their own design engineers. 00:15:01.560 --> 00:15:04.240 They're talking to folks about what they're going to do with those projects. 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.120 And you can see by the numbers down there, 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.980 707 approved private development projects. 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:13.440 That's a lot of work going on. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.880 This time last year, and there was a lot going on, 00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:21.320 our public works inspection staff was trying to juggle 38 to 40 projects 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.560 on a daily basis that were private development related. 00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:28.600 Today it's over 70 a day. 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:30.800 So we have a lot going on. 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:33.120 And the key that's so important there is it brings people, 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.160 it brings commuters, it brings business to the city of Denton. 00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:41.360 It's folks that live here and they're now part of our community. 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.320 But it also means that the roadways are not big enough 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:48.280 to handle the amount of traffic that's coming and going throughout the community. 00:15:48.280 --> 00:15:53.280 Private development does put in their fair share of the public infrastructure. 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:54.680 They do that as they come in. 00:15:54.680 --> 00:15:59.120 But there are components of that that have to be done by the city 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:03.720 to close the gap for a variety of reasons. 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:08.680 So three of the most, or I guess the highest volume areas 00:16:08.680 --> 00:16:10.800 where we're seeing development is in the south. 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:14.120 You're seeing a lot of infill, a lot of areas that were agricultural 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.960 in nature in the past and now they're coming in as residential neighborhoods. 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:20.320 Then you go up north, we're seeing the same thing. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.800 So you go north of Loop 288, we're seeing a lot of folks. 00:16:23.800 --> 00:16:27.680 If you've ever driven out, and I'm sure a lot of you have, you go out Sherman 00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:33.120 or you go out Locust and what used to be mostly pasture or empty land, 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.200 homes are almost every step of the way. 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.200 Well, now they're going past the loop because all you see right now going 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.480 out to Loop 288 is construction. 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.960 It's just going to continue to go north. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.360 You combine that with we have folks that live in Prosper and Sanger and Valley View 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.040 and a bunch of other cities that they come here to work. 00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:53.560 They come here for medical services. 00:16:53.560 --> 00:16:58.960 They come here for the entertainment, the recreation aspects. 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.280 It's a very different community than Denton was 30 years ago. 00:17:02.280 --> 00:17:06.320 So these are our drivers for a significant number of these projects. 00:17:06.320 --> 00:17:10.160 One of the other areas that's really hopping for us too is the area around the airport 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.360 and it's more of an industrial sector, but there is a lot of business coming here. 00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:19.120 It generates a lot of traffic and in particular it generates a lot of heavy truck traffic. 00:17:19.120 --> 00:17:24.280 So one of the concerns we have with a lot of these roadways is do you really want a lot 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:30.480 of heavy truck traffic driving through neighborhood streets or local arterial roadways? 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.760 Do we really want them where most of your commuters are going to be? 00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:35.840 Or do you have them like we have? 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:41.080 We're lucky we're ideally situated to where the industrial sector is booming right off 00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:42.080 of I-35. 00:17:42.080 --> 00:17:47.800 But we still got to provide the connections so that they stay there and they don't start 00:17:47.800 --> 00:17:52.400 wandering off the beaten path to find other ways to get where they need to go. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.320 That's going to be really imperative again as the state continues to come through with 00:17:56.320 --> 00:18:03.720 improvements to I-35 and that long term projection of how long they're going to be here. 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.800 So area one, this is just a blow up. 00:18:05.800 --> 00:18:06.920 This was in your packet. 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:11.160 Now after these next couple of slides we're going to divert a little bit from what you 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.880 had seen on as far as Monday, as early as Monday. 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:20.560 So area one is just a blow up of that area and again you can see it here. 00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:22.840 Area two, similar going to the north. 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:29.520 And this is a little misleading from the standpoint that we've had several discussions with folks 00:18:29.520 --> 00:18:33.560 but nobody submitted anything yet that takes in a large chunk of this area right in here 00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:35.360 for residential development. 00:18:35.360 --> 00:18:37.700 So there's more coming. 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:40.440 We've just had preliminary conversations with those people. 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:45.920 We haven't seen anything tangible yet but we know it's coming. 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.800 And then area three, the industrial sector where we're seeing a lot of growth around 00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:51.800 that area as well. 00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:56.880 So as we go forward we're also going to talk about what these projects cost. 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:02.160 So when we talk about the cost of these projects we're not just talking construction dollars 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.400 because there's an overall cost to deliver any single one of these projects that includes 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.960 staff time, includes right away acquisitions, the design consultant potentially that might 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.720 be doing the work, the contractor. 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.320 Then we've got to factor in things like inflation over time. 00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:22.960 So if we pass the bond in November but we can't actually go to construction until say 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:29.560 2022, three years into the bond, there's construction inflation built into this. 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:34.320 We don't want to be in a place where we were with 2012 and 2014 where all that was really 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:39.400 in the cost estimate was what it cost to build the project. 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.560 And then six years later we're trying to make up the difference. 00:19:42.560 --> 00:19:47.800 So one of the things that's amazing in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, really we're considered 00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:53.640 part of that area, if you look nationally construction inflation is growing between 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.120 three and five percent year over year. 00:19:57.120 --> 00:20:02.080 So that's an annualized rate that compounds every year. 00:20:02.080 --> 00:20:08.640 In Texas by and large you see the same rate overall. 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.200 But what's going on in Dallas and Fort Worth right now? 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.960 Eight to ten. 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:19.580 Easily because what's happening is, is TxDOT has invested billions upon billions of dollars 00:20:19.580 --> 00:20:21.800 on the infrastructure here. 00:20:21.800 --> 00:20:26.000 You've got development coming here in droves in the entire Metroplex area. 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:31.040 So contractors that just eight years ago, nine years ago coming out of the recession 00:20:31.040 --> 00:20:35.400 who were very hungry and we were getting very good prices, they're not in that mode anymore. 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.640 They're much more in the mode of I've got more work than I can handle, it'd be nice 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.240 to get this job, but quite frankly I got more than I can handle. 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.880 So if I get it for this price, absolutely I'll take it. 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:52.400 Every now and then you get one that just says I want the job and I'll go for it. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.320 We have a hard time filling street screws because contractors will come in and have 00:20:57.320 --> 00:20:58.320 done. 00:20:58.320 --> 00:21:01.120 They've walked onto a job site and said you guys are doing a bang up job, I'm going to 00:21:01.120 --> 00:21:08.560 hire all six of you right now on the spot with benefits and a raise. 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:14.800 Construction historically, at least in Texas, is not going to generate benefits for an employee. 00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:16.760 They do now. 00:21:16.760 --> 00:21:18.600 That's how competitive a market is. 00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:23.880 It's hard to get our contractors that we have worked historically with, they're having 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.480 a hard time getting people. 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:29.080 Our consulting engineers, our design professionals have a hard time getting people. 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:34.680 It is just that hot a market right now for people that's driving the cost up. 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:39.080 And the people they do get don't have very good skills, usually. 00:21:39.080 --> 00:21:41.080 Could be. 00:21:41.080 --> 00:21:47.240 From a previous experience, when you go through cycles like this, how long does it take the 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:53.040 supplier market to have people migrate into higher growth areas to equalize that labor 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:54.240 shortage? 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:58.160 That's a tough estimate to throw because we've not seen a market quite like this. 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:02.320 Even when the market was really booming coming out of the 90s and into the early 2000s, it 00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:07.480 was not as dog eat dog as we're seeing right now when it comes to just cannibalizing people 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.440 and personnel. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.960 You can't generate enough people coming out of school with any kind of want to go do something 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:20.320 on a professional basis, let alone folks who are willing to work an hourly wage on a job 00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:23.040 that's very demanding physically. 00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:29.520 When you can go get a similar wage or better and be air conditioned, there's a variety 00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:31.640 of other benefits to that. 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:37.680 Nobody wants to work at 110 degrees heat next to a 165 degree asphalt hopper and that be 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:38.680 your job every day. 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:39.680 That's just, it's miserable. 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.560 It's a hard job and it's tough. 00:22:42.560 --> 00:22:46.300 So you're definitely seeing this transition in the market right now. 00:22:46.300 --> 00:22:51.600 My suspicion is that a lot of this is generated by the sheer influx of dollars that tech 00:22:51.600 --> 00:22:54.400 stocks bring to the table to keep up with the demand. 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.900 So some of this is private development oriented. 00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:02.140 Some of it is absolutely public works development generated. 00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:06.520 The contractors you typically see on both sides of the fence stay in their vein typically. 00:23:06.520 --> 00:23:10.360 Unless you go through a depression or a recession to where they're really hungry for work, they 00:23:10.360 --> 00:23:12.160 might cross over the lines. 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:17.160 By and large, somebody who does public works projects sticks with public works projects. 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:20.640 Somebody who's a private developer contractor typically stays with private development. 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:24.120 You just have both markets going so hot and heavy. 00:23:24.120 --> 00:23:29.120 What tech stock does with their general contractors, you'll see their general contractors come in 00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:34.640 with these large projects, 20 billion, 30 billion, 35 billion, 45 billion dollar projects 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.800 and they'll get this very large consortium of a construction contractor. 00:23:40.800 --> 00:23:43.840 That contractor wants to work the main lanes. 00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:45.500 They want to be within tech stocks right away. 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:49.120 They don't want to deal with city of Denton on how many ramps we're going to have and 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:51.440 how much right away and the signals in the street. 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.440 They don't want to do that. 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.760 It's important to us. 00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:56.840 That's not where they're making their money. 00:23:56.840 --> 00:24:01.920 So what ends up happening invariably is that the subcontractors for them are our general 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:02.920 contractors. 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:04.740 They're our prime contractors typically. 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:10.160 So you have a lot of prime contractors doing subcontract work for tech stock and they're 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.160 busy. 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:12.160 They're flush with business. 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.680 There's all kinds of things to be doing. 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:19.960 So now not just us, but Lewisville, Firemount, Fort Worth, Dallas, Arlington, they're all 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:20.960 having the same problem. 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:26.520 If you're getting two, three, or four bidders on a project, when 10 years ago you would 00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:32.720 have had 12 to 15 and you would have gotten 10 to 12 bidders on a project that was half 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:37.080 a million dollars less, now a good number of them won't even look at you unless it's 00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:39.120 over a million dollars. 00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:40.120 It's just the market we're in. 00:24:40.120 --> 00:24:45.440 Now the bonus we have coming for us is tech stocks moving north. 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.800 They're going to be bringing the same guys with them north because that's where the gravy 00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:50.800 train is right now. 00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:52.400 They got experience with them. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.760 That's where they got the experience making the money right now. 00:24:54.760 --> 00:25:03.480 So the anticipation is they will come north, which should help to moderate our local competitiveness 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:04.480 going into the future. 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.080 Now we're still going to have to wait that out a little bit. 00:25:08.080 --> 00:25:12.200 Tech stocks not really anticipating any of these projects in our area really going full 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:17.160 steam until you get into the 2024, 2026 time frame. 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.320 That's when they're here and not as focused in Dallas and Fort Worth. 00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:24.200 So we got a little time before you start to see that really bubble over. 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:26.700 Does that answer your question? 00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:28.400 Maybe more in depth than you wanted. 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:35.280 Well, would it be fair to say that you don't see much flexibility in the labor market? 00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:37.280 It's more just wait until demand goes down? 00:25:37.280 --> 00:25:42.880 Not for the foreseeable future, no, we just don't. 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:44.080 Okay. 00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:48.920 So we're also building that inflation into these cost estimates as well as contingency. 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:53.520 So we build in a fairly high contingency upfront right now where we don't have a design consultant 00:25:53.520 --> 00:25:58.760 or a professional design professional engaged in the project to find those major hurdles. 00:25:58.760 --> 00:26:02.360 Do I have to deal with the United States Army Corps of Engineers and they're going to make 00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:07.640 us go do jump through a lot of hoops, spend a lot of money on wetlands preservation, on 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:10.840 mitigation, on stream bank protection. 00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:14.960 There's a variety of things that we'll get engaged in with all of these. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.440 We don't know to what extent. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.240 So there's a contingency built in that gets narrowed down as the project comes closer 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.720 to construction. 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:29.840 Right now we have factored in about 30% contingency since we just don't know the impact of those 00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:31.460 efforts yet. 00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:32.760 We have a general idea. 00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:34.200 We know we're going to explore those. 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:36.200 We don't know to what depth yet. 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:40.400 And then the last component that we're building into every one of these budgets is incentives 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:41.400 and disincentives. 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.120 And that's a tool you use with the contractor to say we need to achieve the project in this 00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:51.920 date, in this timeframe, and if you beat that, there's a little bonus here. 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.880 And I really want to pay you the bonus because then you're not out here for five years dragging 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:59.560 a project out that should have been done in a year and a half. 00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:03.400 And then there's also the disincentive side, I can't offer the incentives without offering 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:08.060 the disincentive or I can't do the disincentives without offering the incentives, set it backwards. 00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:13.880 So the disincentives is, okay, there's typically a limit on the incentives, $3,000 a day, $5,000 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:21.240 a day up to 30 or 45 days prior, or 30% of the contract, it just depends on the contract. 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:23.600 The disincentives has no limit. 00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:26.880 It's the exact same amount, but it has no limit. 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.680 So it's a penalty to the contractor if you miss that date. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.840 It doesn't mean we don't work with them on change, they can't control the weather, they 00:27:33.840 --> 00:27:37.440 can't control certain things, it doesn't mean we don't work with them, but we build that 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.800 into these budgets so we're not having to come back to council on a later date and ask 00:27:41.800 --> 00:27:42.800 for more money. 00:27:42.800 --> 00:27:49.120 So that's built into all of these pretty thorough breakdown of what we do know now, and it will 00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:53.000 whittle down as we get a design professional on board and you move forward into the design 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.260 process much closer to construction. 00:27:56.260 --> 00:27:59.780 Any questions on this one? 00:27:59.780 --> 00:28:02.160 Okay. 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:07.560 So the first of the projects, our top priority, and really we could have interchanged both 00:28:07.560 --> 00:28:12.960 of these two top priorities, Bonnie Bray and Hickory Creek, if you just have to pick one, 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:17.480 it's almost throw a dart at it and pick the one it lands on because they're that critical 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:18.480 in our view. 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.400 They also generate the maximum amount of leverage. 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:29.560 So for this project, we're anticipating the 27 million dollars is all we're putting into 00:28:29.560 --> 00:28:34.720 the project, but we're leveraging almost 112 million dollars. 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.880 That comes from our partners with the council of governments, with the state, with the county, 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:40.880 the school district. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.600 There's a variety of partners that help us make that a reality and in all the discussions 00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:50.360 we're having right now, which will get more formalized as this process moves along, everyone's 00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:52.440 very interested in being a part of this. 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:55.940 We already have some of that money committed. 00:28:55.940 --> 00:28:58.400 We're working to get the rest of that committed. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:01.000 So what we've also presented here is just what this looks like. 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:05.480 So the project, Bonnie Bray itself has seven phases. 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:07.380 That's why there's five, six, and seven here. 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:12.360 The other four phases are funded and they're either under construction, going to construction 00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:16.240 in the next six to nine months, or about to be complete. 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:22.040 So Bonnie Bray phase one, way south, is almost complete and almost just meaning everything's 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:27.320 in place, but we've got two gas lines there that got to be moved and we're ready to go. 00:29:27.320 --> 00:29:28.880 This focuses on that northern end. 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.020 It goes from McKenna Park to the south. 00:29:31.020 --> 00:29:34.960 This is phase five and goes up to University Drive. 00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:38.680 Then from University Drive, it goes all the way to 77. 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:46.480 In the 2014 bond, Bonnie Bray was identified as a project from University Drive to Windsor 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.360 and that's where it stopped. 00:29:48.360 --> 00:29:53.080 The reason this project became eligible for some of our partners to really want to partner 00:29:53.080 --> 00:29:59.940 with us is University Drive is a state roadway and 77 and Loop 288 are state facilities. 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:05.960 When we made the connection to 77 and then ultimately Loop 288, that became of interest 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:11.580 to our regional partners to want to put some money into this project and make it a reality. 00:30:11.580 --> 00:30:14.520 You combine that with the school district having a high school that's wanting to move 00:30:14.520 --> 00:30:18.200 up here to the north, I'm still going to have to get used to my alma mater being on the 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.160 north side of town and not in the middle. 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.360 So it's going to be up here on the north side of town that's going to generate a lot more 00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:29.840 traffic up here than what we've seen in years. 00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:32.680 University Park absolutely changed that dynamic. 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:38.720 So I did the growth in the parks there at McKenna and North Lakes Park and now you're 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.760 going to add on top of that a high school with all its activities and everything that 00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:43.880 goes on year round. 00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:48.620 We're in a race to get there before they open. 00:30:48.620 --> 00:30:52.840 So with that being said, council did approve design dollars for this road and that's one 00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:55.920 of the other prime reasons why our regional partners are very interested in partnering 00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.280 with us is we're well into the design process. 00:30:58.280 --> 00:31:06.080 I believe we're past 30%, almost into the 40% of the design process so we've answered 00:31:06.080 --> 00:31:10.320 the vast majority of what hurdles are in front of that project and we're moving into the 00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:13.080 full design of that project. 00:31:13.080 --> 00:31:14.720 All those technical issues are being resolved. 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.880 The state has also come in and committed to this purple piece here. 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.280 Really the city's commitment going forward would be working with the University of North 00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:27.840 Texas to acquire the right-of-way, but the state is going to fund the piece from 77 to 00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:30.760 Loop 288 and we'll go over Loop 288. 00:31:30.760 --> 00:31:34.520 So it's cutting across the west edge of Discovery Park. 00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:35.520 Yes. 00:31:35.520 --> 00:31:41.000 So that park is, UNT actually owns this whole triangle and we're coming just inside of it. 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.520 So Bonnie Bray, how many new Bonnie Bray goes under Loop 288? 00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:49.840 To be honest, and I've lived here a long time, I don't because I always go over it on Loop 00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:55.360 288 or I go sideways and never really pay attention to it going under Loop 288, which 00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:58.040 is in a flood-prone area. 00:31:58.040 --> 00:32:02.280 So this new alignment would take it up and over Loop 288 and the state has stepped in 00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:07.080 and said they will do the design and construction of that portion. 00:32:07.080 --> 00:32:13.960 The other point I would make is all along 77, that is rapidly filling in with apartments, 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:14.960 homes. 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:21.240 It's going to have a pretty high density all the way up to Loop 288. 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:26.040 So currently today, you'll see this term on most of our slides here when it comes to these 00:32:26.040 --> 00:32:29.440 types of projects like the Bonnie Bray and the Hickory Creek, you'll see a level of service, 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.040 peak hour level of service. 00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:36.280 So today, if you were to drive Bonnie Bray, peak hour just means the morning when everybody's 00:32:36.280 --> 00:32:40.120 commuting or dropping off kids at school and in the evenings when everybody's coming home 00:32:40.120 --> 00:32:44.240 or whatever they're doing, you've got those rush hour times. 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:48.080 We call it, engineers, we call that the peak hour because it's when we see the maximum 00:32:48.080 --> 00:32:52.800 amount of traffic through a one hour time slot, that's what we design most roadways 00:32:52.800 --> 00:32:53.800 for. 00:32:53.800 --> 00:32:57.440 So throughout this corridor, you see level of service D and it's graded from an A to 00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.840 an F just like when you're in school, roadways and intersections get graded on a scale of 00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:06.560 an A being the best to an F being the worst, meaning you basically can't get through it. 00:33:06.560 --> 00:33:11.360 It's basically a parking lot or it's so rough, you basically have to be in a four by four 00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:14.220 to make sure you can get out without damaging the vehicle. 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:17.880 So there's a variety of reasons why it might fall into that F category. 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.560 Most of the time it's a capacity reason, how many cars are going through. 00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:24.360 That relates back to congestion. 00:33:24.360 --> 00:33:29.280 How likely are people to stop at an intersection and wait? 00:33:29.280 --> 00:33:32.320 What ends up happening when you're next to a residential subdivision if they're on a 00:33:32.320 --> 00:33:37.160 major roadway and they're waiting, they cut through the neighborhood and that's exactly 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:38.640 what we don't want to have happen. 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.040 We want our neighborhoods to be a safe place. 00:33:41.040 --> 00:33:44.880 We don't want vehicular traffic moving through like they do today. 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:48.120 They do that a lot of times today because there's nowhere else to go. 00:33:48.120 --> 00:33:49.400 They're stuck in a light. 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:54.120 University and Bonnie Bray is a nightmare at certain times of the day. 00:33:54.120 --> 00:33:58.320 It operates at a little bit less than a level of service D right now, almost into a level 00:33:58.320 --> 00:34:04.160 of service E and what this would do with this project is it would push it into an A for 00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:09.960 most of the day, but in those rush hour times, it pushed it into a B. Long-term, and we do 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:15.160 these projections out into 2045 based on the Council of Government's regional model for 00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:16.160 growth. 00:34:16.160 --> 00:34:21.200 That's all we have to work off of right now, and then we also compare that with the development 00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:26.840 services and planning model for planning with different zoning districts and the ultimate 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:31.040 makeup of the entire city looks like from a development standpoint. 00:34:31.040 --> 00:34:36.600 How does that grow into volumes and capacities of cars moving down the roadway, people walking, 00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:37.600 people cycling? 00:34:37.600 --> 00:34:42.360 How do you grow these roadways so that I build today for what I know is coming in the short 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:43.360 very near future? 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:50.800 Todd, do we have the right of way already from Scripture to 380? 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.600 Not all of it, no. 00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:55.120 We're working on that piece, but not all of it. 00:34:55.120 --> 00:34:59.080 It's with any project, there's always going to be right of way that needs to be acquired. 00:34:59.080 --> 00:35:01.600 There are easements that need to be acquired. 00:35:01.600 --> 00:35:05.760 Some of those easements are just temporary in nature because I've got to have 10 foot 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:10.320 for the construction guy to be over that side of the property line while he's doing work 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.440 on this side, and then we return it back to natural afterwards and that easement goes 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.440 away. 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.440 So there's a whole variety of those easements that we've also got to build into these schedules. 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:25.440 Todd, at a high level, you mentioned earlier that I-35 is going to see significant changes 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:26.440 or construction. 00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:27.440 Yes. 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.480 At a high level, can you share what those are? 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:34.540 They're still developing a fair amount of those plans, and I know Preetam can talk to 00:35:34.540 --> 00:35:41.200 quite a bit of those, but one of the significant changes you'll see in this area is the ramps 00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:45.080 that enter onto I-35 and exit. 00:35:45.080 --> 00:35:49.240 A prominent condition that's going to change is today we just have a ramp that dumps off 00:35:49.240 --> 00:35:52.240 and a ramp that gets back on. 00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:55.920 At University Drive in particular on I-35, that's a problem. 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:57.920 The ramps are very close to the intersection. 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.200 There's a lot of people trying to get off, and you have people trying to get off going 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:02.920 into their neighborhoods up here. 00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.720 Some people trying to go get dinner at Cheddar's or wherever they're going. 00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:07.720 I like Cheddar's. 00:36:07.720 --> 00:36:10.360 It's probably going to come to mind. 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:16.720 But there's a variety of things going on in this area that is generating that traffic. 00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:20.880 So what TxDOT will be doing with that project is they're going to build what they call braided 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:21.880 ramps. 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:26.200 So if you can imagine, if you've driven Dallas and Fort Worth at all, some ramps exit off 00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:32.000 the highway high, and some ramps come on underneath it, and it's a mishmash when you're looking 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.000 at it. 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:35.880 You're like, how in the world did they come up with this spaghetti noodle of a solution? 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:37.840 But it works. 00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:43.000 And it's for these reasons that they do those braided ramps that the distances are so tight 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:48.000 that you try to get enough room away from the intersection that people can safely exit, 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:53.240 and you don't have that parking lot like we have on I-35 going north of the Y and onto 00:36:53.240 --> 00:36:56.240 the University Drive exit. 00:36:56.240 --> 00:37:00.360 So that goes away, plus they're looking to add additional ramps. 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.200 They work with the city didn't in this case, but all communities. 00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:07.200 If there are major intersections, and they can incorporate into the project, they have 00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:10.260 the same problems we do, they've got to be able to fund it. 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:11.880 Are there some alternate locations? 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.560 One of the ones that we have talked about with TxDOT and we're still working through 00:37:15.560 --> 00:37:22.680 would be an exit ramp at Windsor, because a lot of the people that are leaving the highway 00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:25.780 getting on University Drive trying to get to their homes. 00:37:25.780 --> 00:37:31.160 If I have an exit just beyond that, well, now they can get directly to their homes and 00:37:31.160 --> 00:37:35.520 not fight the traffic that's also trying to get to University Drive for wherever they're 00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:36.520 going. 00:37:36.520 --> 00:37:39.640 So those are all going on in the background as we're talking about this. 00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:48.280 Todd, when I looked at the cost of this project, just looking at cost per lane mile, just isolating 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:54.220 design and construction, not right away, none of the other columns in the later summary. 00:37:54.220 --> 00:37:58.920 This one came out around $5 million per lane mile, and all the other arterial projects 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.800 came out at like $2.5 million ish. 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.920 Can you speak to what is driving that difference? 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.240 There are several things that are driving it. 00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:11.480 Some of it's right away assumptions, because there are right away costs that get tied into 00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.280 this and part of that right away cost. 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:18.520 Sorry to interrupt, that was just the design and construction columns, not the right away 00:38:18.520 --> 00:38:19.520 column. 00:38:19.520 --> 00:38:20.520 I'd have to go back and look. 00:38:20.520 --> 00:38:23.900 I couldn't tell you right off the top of my head, because it's an all-inclusive cost. 00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:28.640 There's utilities, there's a variety of other things that get tied in that may not be true 00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:29.640 in other locations. 00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:34.400 For instance, there is a major water line that has to go in with this project. 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:39.440 So a large water line and a booster pump station tied to it's going to inflate the number in 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.320 a different way. 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.680 Crossings at different elevations, if we have to do a significant amount of fill, raising 00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:46.840 and lowering, that may change it as well. 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:48.920 So you're going to see that in some of these projects. 00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:54.160 But every project is just take it six inches down, put pavement on top. 00:38:54.160 --> 00:38:58.600 Yeah, and I've been to minor variations, it was just a 2X difference. 00:38:58.600 --> 00:39:04.280 Oh, and it has two bridges as well, so it throws some of those numbers off as well. 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:12.120 Yeah, I mean, that's fine, I mean, Hickory Creek has a really big bridge too. 00:39:12.120 --> 00:39:16.440 You've also got the scenario where we're going up and over the interstate, the Luke 288 right 00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:17.440 there. 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:20.360 It's a whole different set of construction than what you're talking about with Hickory 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:21.360 Creek. 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:25.000 It's still a bridge, but it's a full interchange with an interstate highway. 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:30.560 They're projected volumes when they actually tie in 380 and swing 380 up to Luke 288 and 00:39:30.560 --> 00:39:33.480 comes around the outside of town combined with the outer loop traffic. 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:39.880 I mean, there's some other factors there that are pushing that number in a different direction. 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:49.160 But again, it's the most leveraged project we've had. 00:39:49.160 --> 00:39:50.160 Yes? 00:39:50.160 --> 00:39:51.160 I have a question. 00:39:51.160 --> 00:39:52.160 Yes, sir? 00:39:52.160 --> 00:39:53.160 I just want to ask, the bikeway is already four lanes, so how are you going to say that 00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:57.360 you're going to expand it to four lanes and increase your LOS from a D to an A? 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.640 There's a lot of improvements that go on at the intersections, which is really what unlocks 00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:02.020 the roadway. 00:40:02.020 --> 00:40:06.400 So there's a widening to almost six lanes with bypass, there's a variety of things that 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:07.680 happen at the intersections. 00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:11.080 They get wider, they get bigger to handle the amount of traffic. 00:40:11.080 --> 00:40:15.240 Anytime I put a signal up, I'm essentially creating a parking lot. 00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:16.800 So I got a couple of options for that parking lot. 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:23.980 I may get wider so I can stack the cars even further up or I can make it narrower, but 00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:28.400 try to find some way of providing extra avenues for people to get off of that roadway. 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.080 Is this supposed to be a six lane road eventually? 00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:33.080 It's being built that way. 00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:37.120 Yes, it'll have a wide median so that at some point in the future when we do need six lanes, 00:40:37.120 --> 00:40:40.240 you can add the six lanes to the inside and we're not getting right away another day. 00:40:40.240 --> 00:40:43.520 So it'll be about as wide as Mayo is right now? 00:40:43.520 --> 00:40:44.520 Yes. 00:40:44.520 --> 00:40:45.520 Yes. 00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:46.520 Yes, ma'am. 00:40:46.520 --> 00:41:00.560 Does the budget help with the state funds and I guess the city funds for, what is it 00:41:00.560 --> 00:41:01.800 called, Buc-E's? 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:04.720 I know that's 288 areas for the ramp. 00:41:04.720 --> 00:41:13.060 I noticed that you guys didn't do the ramp until after they got here. 00:41:13.060 --> 00:41:17.980 Part of what you're seeing right now is a different staff than what was here when Buc-E's 00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:21.220 and the ramps for I-35E. 00:41:21.220 --> 00:41:23.160 That staff is a different staff. 00:41:23.160 --> 00:41:27.720 So there's a lot more proactivity going on now to make those things happen. 00:41:27.720 --> 00:41:33.420 Oh, if you want to. 00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:35.440 So there were things that happened after the construction. 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.480 So Buc-E's came in after I-35 had been in the planning stages. 00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:42.280 I-35 has been in the planning stages for well over a decade. 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:47.360 I mean, it's pushing 20 years in the planning phases, then the design process. 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:51.280 Their processes that they're state and federally mandated to follow takes longer than what 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:52.280 we can do. 00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:56.560 We can do some things faster because it just takes that long for them to get there. 00:41:56.560 --> 00:42:02.360 And if you can imagine expanding a multiple billion dollar roadway, it just takes a lot 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:06.040 of planning, a lot of moving of things, a lot of getting things out of the way. 00:42:06.040 --> 00:42:10.720 So TxDOT had been planning that roadway way in advance of Buc-E's ever deciding they wanted 00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:13.120 to come put a Buc-E's here in Netton. 00:42:13.120 --> 00:42:16.840 So after that had already gone, been let, ready to go to construction, then Buc-E's 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:20.320 came in and they started working with the state, trying to find a way to make it happen. 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:21.920 Buc-E's started working with the state? 00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:22.920 No, Buc-E's the city. 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.360 You had a variety of players that were involved in that. 00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:26.360 Okay. 00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:29.560 Because that's a crazy area right now. 00:42:29.560 --> 00:42:30.560 It is a crazy area. 00:42:30.560 --> 00:42:34.160 And that's why you're seeing the solutions go in there now. 00:42:34.160 --> 00:42:38.360 Staff worked very hard on several traffic studies to help prove to the state that some 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:41.520 of the connections you're seeing come online now were warranted. 00:42:41.520 --> 00:42:46.120 I think the Brinker Road connection is the primary one we're talking about. 00:42:46.120 --> 00:42:52.440 Brinker really had no forward momentum until Pre-Tem really let the charge to go forward 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:56.840 to do a traffic study in the area and prove to the state that that was needed. 00:42:56.840 --> 00:43:07.920 I'm sure that's a high dollar above all, like, you know, the expense and yeah. 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:12.640 Are you guys trying to get HOV lanes here or no? 00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:17.440 I don't believe that was part of their, anywhere in their scope of work. 00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:23.020 And that's also been a challenge with the state from the top, from the governor's position. 00:43:23.020 --> 00:43:26.080 It's been a little bit of a change in the thought process. 00:43:26.080 --> 00:43:29.120 So we have no control over that part. 00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:33.720 That would help too. 00:43:33.720 --> 00:43:34.720 Okay. 00:43:34.720 --> 00:43:35.720 Any other questions on Bonnie Brady? 00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:42.920 Just real quickly, does all of this include like an improvement on the bike lanes or? 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:43.920 Yes. 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:44.920 Okay. 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:47.040 So you'll see in this little schematic down here, we're playing for bike lanes, we're 00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:49.240 playing for sidewalks, side paths. 00:43:49.240 --> 00:43:52.320 The buildings, I have no idea what they're actually going to look like. 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:58.200 So Pre-Tam had a lot of fun playing with it, so we don't know exactly what's going to be 00:43:58.200 --> 00:43:59.200 there. 00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:01.920 But there will be street lights, there will be sidewalks, there will be bicycle lanes. 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:07.000 I mean, obviously we're designing so that all modes of transportation can get to the 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:13.640 high school, to North Texas, to the residential homes, to the park, all the way down to Razor 00:44:13.640 --> 00:44:21.080 Ranch and all the amenities that are down that way. 00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:24.920 These primary, these arterial roadways, yes, they all include street lights. 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.920 Okay. 00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.800 So that will be in Bonnie Brady, that's in Hickory Creek, Robinson, Ryan Road. 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.320 So all the new ones there? 00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:34.320 Yes. 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:38.760 DME just did a major improvement to the transmission lines along Bonnie Brady. 00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:39.760 Yes. 00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:42.200 Will those be impacted by this? 00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:43.200 Not many of them. 00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:45.360 It was planned for them to be set outside. 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.080 There might be a few because development has changed the nature. 00:44:48.080 --> 00:44:51.600 When DME came in, they put their poles where they thought they were going to have to be 00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:56.080 and of course now, new developers, new development, they want to put a driveway where they want 00:44:56.080 --> 00:44:59.720 to put it and that's a negotiation constantly that we're working with them on. 00:44:59.720 --> 00:45:03.840 Do you make them move the street light? 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:05.400 Developer or DME or who? 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.680 No, do you make the developer move the street light? 00:45:07.680 --> 00:45:09.720 If they're impacting it, yes ma'am. 00:45:09.720 --> 00:45:16.400 Tom, is there any chance that these bike lanes could get raised up above the roadways so 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.680 that we're not all sharing the same level? 00:45:19.680 --> 00:45:20.680 Absolutely. 00:45:20.680 --> 00:45:22.000 What you're saying right now is a concept. 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.280 It is by no means the final design. 00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:28.080 This is just a concept to give you an idea of what the feel of the road might be but 00:45:28.080 --> 00:45:32.880 as far as the location of where the bicycles would be in relation to the road, one of the 00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.720 avenues that we are working through right now and we're working with DME on right now 00:45:36.720 --> 00:45:42.400 is where would say a side path like a bicycle path and a pedestrian path be off the roadway 00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.900 that wind down the right-of-way, that's one of the options we're considering right now. 00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:47.900 Good. 00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:50.080 Any questions over here, Tom? 00:45:50.080 --> 00:45:51.080 Yes ma'am. 00:45:51.080 --> 00:45:57.480 Tom, do you know the volume of traffic car-wise is anticipated going up and down without a 00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:58.480 break? 00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.480 Yes, and that's why pre-tamp is sitting right up front. 00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:15.880 I think it's currently in the 11 to 15 hour range but once this is done with the school 00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:18.880 coming in, it will go beyond 22,000 to 25,000 vehicles per day. 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.880 Vehicles. 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:21.280 I don't know if you all heard that pre-tamp was saying that right now we're seeing 11 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:27.520 to 12,000 vehicles per day on the existing roadway and where this would take us would 00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:31.640 be the capacity for 22,000 to 25,000 vehicles per day. 00:46:31.640 --> 00:46:36.560 One of the other things we didn't talk about and I think Mr. Pruitt brought it up, or somebody 00:46:36.560 --> 00:46:39.800 brought it up, it's four lane now and you're going to do four lane. 00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:45.160 It's four lanes now but what happens with a four lane divided roadway, and we'll dive 00:46:45.160 --> 00:46:51.280 into this a little bit with Ryan Road as well, when you have four lanes and people are trying 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:56.480 to turn left, what happens is people stop in the left lane so everybody's forced to 00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:02.480 go around them, and now they're waiting to turn left, and that happens in both lanes, 00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:05.920 especially if I have a neighborhood here and a neighborhood here or whatever they're trying 00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.080 to get to. 00:47:07.080 --> 00:47:11.700 So what we have found over time is essentially those four lane roadways, unless there's nothing 00:47:11.700 --> 00:47:17.640 that is a destination for the driver to want to turn left, those four lane roadways really 00:47:17.640 --> 00:47:22.680 function like a three lane roadway or one in each direction with a center turn lane. 00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:27.720 So that's really how most four lanes work, with just a little bit more capacity to them. 00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:31.440 When you go down the pathway of what we're proposing here, it's a four lane road with 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:37.480 a median, so you control where people actually turn left, and then you give them the side 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:43.040 bays, those left turn bays to stack in that lane, and then you still allow two lanes of 00:47:43.040 --> 00:47:44.440 traffic to move through. 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:53.680 Any other questions, most anticipated time, construction to completion? 00:47:53.680 --> 00:48:00.440 So for phase six, that would be our first target because of the high school. 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:03.640 Phase six would be the first one to go into construction. 00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:08.720 We need to have that open by beginning of school of 2022, they actually would like it 00:48:08.720 --> 00:48:13.080 open by the end of the spring of 2022, so they can have some of their summer camps and 00:48:13.080 --> 00:48:14.080 other things going on. 00:48:14.080 --> 00:48:18.640 So it's a very aggressive schedule, that's why we're already in the design process and 00:48:18.640 --> 00:48:23.000 working with property owners on where the right-of-way asks would be and where the easements 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.000 would come from. 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:27.600 Because I live right off Bonnie Bray. 00:48:27.600 --> 00:48:28.600 Yes, ma'am. 00:48:28.600 --> 00:48:29.600 This is why I'm asking. 00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:30.600 Sure. 00:48:30.600 --> 00:48:35.400 How am I going to be able to turn right or left as I come off, well not scripture because 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:40.360 we'll have a roundabout, but it's a personal question, how am I going to get out of there? 00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.720 I understand and you will see us as we go through these projects, provided these are 00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:49.480 projects going forward, we will have multiple public meetings and early and upfront in that 00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:53.120 public meeting, we want that feedback, what are the impacts you perceive so that you can 00:48:53.120 --> 00:48:56.580 see the evolution of the design of that project. 00:48:56.580 --> 00:49:01.600 You're not going to be totally inconvenienced, we will do our best to try to provide ways 00:49:01.600 --> 00:49:07.040 for people to get around, but we'll do our best to work together so you know what's coming, 00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:11.200 when it's coming, and where there are concerns, try our best to incorporate that into the 00:49:11.200 --> 00:49:12.200 project. 00:49:12.200 --> 00:49:16.340 Sorry, one more thing. 00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:23.640 One of the things just in general that I'd like to understand is how many people are currently 00:49:23.640 --> 00:49:29.840 impacted by lower levels of service and what that impact is in a number of minutes. 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:37.920 So I know you had 10 to 12k people or 15 per day, I don't know how much of that breaks 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.920 down within the peak hour where that level of service is really reduced and that sort 00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:42.920 of thing. 00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:45.760 It may be beyond the scope of right now, but in general I would like to see that. 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.040 I would say that would be something we could bring back at another time. 00:49:49.040 --> 00:49:51.080 I could not even begin to get into that. 00:49:51.080 --> 00:49:54.280 We have information when it relates to some of these projects, especially those that are 00:49:54.280 --> 00:50:01.560 in design, but we're going to really get into the weeds on some of this where I don't know 00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:04.400 that it's going to have a bearing tonight and I definitely couldn't give you good answers 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:05.400 right this second. 00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:06.400 Understood, thank you. 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:07.400 I have one question. 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:08.400 Yes ma'am. 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:14.920 I'm glad that somebody raised the question about having the bikes and you guys raising 00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:19.960 the roads for the bikes. 00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:27.560 Are you guys leading in that with other cities with that idea or is it already out there? 00:50:27.560 --> 00:50:30.560 Have you seen other cities with the bike race? 00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:36.240 Every city has a slightly different take on where they want that to go. 00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:39.480 There are places where they like to have them on the street. 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:45.720 There's definitely been a push in the transportation community here of late where I really don't 00:50:45.720 --> 00:50:52.600 want the bicycles to be worried about fighting a 6,000 pound vehicle coming up right behind 00:50:52.600 --> 00:50:55.360 them or right next to them. 00:50:55.360 --> 00:51:00.240 If I try to separate that, pull them off the roadway, you still by state law can travel 00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:01.740 in that lane if you're a cyclist. 00:51:01.740 --> 00:51:02.740 You have that right. 00:51:02.740 --> 00:51:05.400 You're a vehicle like anybody else. 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:08.840 Bicycle lanes provide a facility to where you don't have the two right on top of each 00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:14.240 other, but what we'd like even better is for that to be separate to have some safe distance 00:51:14.240 --> 00:51:18.360 between the two and the cyclist feel like they have more independence on where they're 00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:19.440 going to be. 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.960 The trade off is that's a lot more right of way. 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:29.080 It's a lot more space that you got to have to make all those things happen. 00:51:29.080 --> 00:51:33.960 There's definitely multiple schools of thought and it takes a lot of what I would term a 00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:38.480 complete streets philosophy, which is what our staff has when it comes to planning transportation 00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:39.800 projects. 00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:43.800 I'm not looking at just how I get a car from A to B. I'm looking at how I get people who 00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:48.920 are walking for a variety of reasons, how I get bicyclists there, how do I get the motorists 00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:52.360 there, how do I get public transportation there, how do I make sure EMS can get through. 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:58.680 There's a whole host of things we're trying to balance all at one time. 00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:02.680 When you design the roadway, you also got to start taking into account what is the context. 00:52:02.680 --> 00:52:06.640 Am I near a residential neighborhood, am I a commercial district, am I near schools, 00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:07.640 where am I? 00:52:07.640 --> 00:52:09.120 All those things come into play when we're designing. 00:52:09.120 --> 00:52:11.840 It's definitely not done in a vacuum. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:17.640 When you do a roadway like Bonnie Bray, it goes from rural and the extreme southern end 00:52:17.640 --> 00:52:24.000 and the extreme northern end and it goes into school zones, it goes into university traffic, 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:29.080 it goes into a medical district, it goes into a whole variety of settings that now we're 00:52:29.080 --> 00:52:30.920 challenged with working through. 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:34.560 We're doing our best to do that as we bring these options forward. 00:52:34.560 --> 00:52:39.960 I just think it would be an innovative way for you guys to stand out among other cities 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:45.920 and that people would want to definitely move here just because of the bikes. 00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:53.320 A lot of people like that lifestyle of being able to just ride their bike and not be congested 00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:54.320 with the traffic. 00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:58.600 If you guys are doing that, that's going to bring a lot of people to Denton, especially 00:52:58.600 --> 00:53:02.520 students for UNT. 00:53:02.520 --> 00:53:07.080 We're pushing seven o'clock and we have not gotten through the first project. 00:53:07.080 --> 00:53:13.360 I am more than happy to answer your questions, but we're going to be here a long time. 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:14.360 All right. 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:16.360 Bonnie Bray, let's move on. 00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:19.920 Hickory Creek Road, we talked about this one a little bit. 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.920 It's been in the papers here of late. 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:27.640 The road has just had an increased number of ... The fatalities have made the paper 00:53:27.640 --> 00:53:30.440 for sure, but the traffic has gone up significantly. 00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:35.960 What used to be a small country road is now handling commuter traffic that's trying to 00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:39.640 get to South, trying to get to school, trying to get to Guyer High School. 00:53:39.640 --> 00:53:42.720 They're trying to get to their jobs in Dallas, Fort Worth, or South Lake, or they're trying 00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:47.680 to come here for a variety of reasons, whether it's to work or it's to play, whatever they're 00:53:47.680 --> 00:53:48.680 doing. 00:53:48.680 --> 00:53:53.960 The roadway has taken on a whole new character and it's never been able to catch up. 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:56.720 Residential development has taken off in this entire southern segment. 00:53:56.720 --> 00:53:59.920 You also have potential residential development coming in on the other side. 00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:03.880 It's just a matter of time before that fills in as well, catches up with ropes and ranch 00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.880 way out on the extreme. 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:11.000 The roadway today, we have the yellow piece and the green piece. 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:14.640 That's between 2499 and 2181 and then over to River Pass. 00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:16.080 Those are under construction. 00:54:16.080 --> 00:54:18.840 This yellow piece will be under construction later this year. 00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:22.360 Its design is 95% complete. 00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:25.840 By that we mean we know exactly what we're going to be putting out there. 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:30.560 We're just closing the gap on some fine details to get it out to bid. 00:54:30.560 --> 00:54:32.200 The green piece is under construction. 00:54:32.200 --> 00:54:35.360 We are working through that segment now. 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:39.880 Then everything you see in blue and red, that's what we're planning today. 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:44.600 We have design dollars that are already being put into the ultimate alignment of this entire 00:54:44.600 --> 00:54:47.600 red segment. 00:54:47.600 --> 00:54:52.480 What we have today will carry us into 30% design of the entire length of this roadway. 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:58.840 That also is what has given us the open door with our regional partners, Council, Government, 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:08.960 County, to leverage the $34 million, $35 million we're asking to put into it to $160 million. 00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:13.160 This becomes a very important connection, not just for Denton, and it's extremely important 00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:19.360 for us from a safety reason for just getting people around on the south part of town, but 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:23.240 there are other needs throughout the entire region that are met by this roadway. 00:55:23.240 --> 00:55:28.080 It takes some load off of an argyle who's seeing an increased amount of traffic because 00:55:28.080 --> 00:55:31.360 we have folks trying to get out to I-35W. 00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:35.920 There are a variety of reasons why this becomes a very important part of leveraging those 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:39.080 dollars significantly. 00:55:39.080 --> 00:55:45.280 The project we're working on in total is 30% design all the way to I-35W. 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:50.680 The dollars we were working with COG and several other resources this summer to nail down would 00:55:50.680 --> 00:55:55.480 carry us construction for the ultimate alignment all the way to 35W. 00:55:55.480 --> 00:55:59.840 What you're also seeing is partnerships coming to fruition with private development in this 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:02.600 corridor, and that's because we have the planning already going. 00:56:02.600 --> 00:56:07.000 We're already working on the design, and as development comes in, they're picking 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:08.840 up that piece and doing their share. 00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.720 They're building their half of that roadway. 00:56:11.720 --> 00:56:15.160 There are several of those developments that we're talking to today that are ready to go 00:56:15.160 --> 00:56:18.640 to construction as soon as they can get their plans together, and we're nailing down what 00:56:18.640 --> 00:56:20.600 does that alignment look like for them. 00:56:20.600 --> 00:56:23.120 That's an unknown quantity for them that's not resolved. 00:56:23.120 --> 00:56:27.080 We're a lot more willing to come help with that. 00:56:27.080 --> 00:56:29.960 We also are looking to build this initial piece. 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:32.340 This is the piece that gets us over to 1830. 00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:36.440 It straightens out Hickory Creek Road, which has the big sweeping curve that has caused 00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:39.760 fatalities, has had multiple accidents. 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:42.360 This would go straight over the floodplain. 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:46.200 It would also go over the railroad tracks, so you don't have that conflict point either. 00:56:46.200 --> 00:56:50.440 We're going to go over both and then touch down back over at 1830. 00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:55.640 We are in conversation, matter of fact, we had a meeting this week with TechStot about 00:56:55.640 --> 00:57:00.280 1830, and what does this intersection look like going forward. 00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:02.440 All of those things are in the works. 00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:08.040 When you see this level of service D down here, what we're talking about is if you left 00:57:08.040 --> 00:57:13.480 the roadway alone today, because it's not level of service D right now, it's not that 00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:18.880 kind of traffic, but with all these developments coming online, when they come in, it will 00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:24.440 be, by the time you start pushing out into 2025 and into 2030, 2035, it will be. 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:28.760 In some places, it will be a level of service F. You do have some places that are level 00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:30.760 of service D today with traffic. 00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:35.240 Hickory Creek Road now, and where it ties in to 1830, it's a very dangerous intersection 00:57:35.240 --> 00:57:39.840 because it's sharp turns right next to the creek, can hardly see what's coming and going 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.840 around you. 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.000 It operates very much at a level of service D right now. 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:48.860 This roadway would push us into a level of service A with six lanes of roadway going 00:57:48.860 --> 00:57:54.520 all the way to 35W, so it's going to move a lot of traffic. 00:57:54.520 --> 00:57:58.640 Here's what has changed, and this is what comes to bear with the remainder of the project, 00:57:58.640 --> 00:58:02.120 especially when we get into the remainder of these projects, when we talk about Ryan 00:58:02.120 --> 00:58:05.960 Road and the streets, neighborhood streets, things like that. 00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:09.520 We did a complete area study. 00:58:09.520 --> 00:58:14.720 We did a traffic study of the entire area from Hobson Road down south to Crawford Road 00:58:14.720 --> 00:58:20.400 all the way past I-35W just a little bit, and over to 2181, 2499, so that we would start 00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:26.640 to have an idea of as development comes in, as we see the growth, what does the entire 00:58:26.640 --> 00:58:28.600 roadway network do? 00:58:28.600 --> 00:58:29.600 Where do people go? 00:58:29.600 --> 00:58:33.680 They're going to find the path of least resistance, and then we use a series of models that allows 00:58:33.680 --> 00:58:39.420 us to figure out projected, I mean, it's still an estimate, but it's a very good educated 00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:41.640 estimate of what's going to happen. 00:58:41.640 --> 00:58:43.520 Where's traffic going to go? 00:58:43.520 --> 00:58:48.320 By unlocking the southern segment, where most people are trying to get over to 35W, 35E, 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:54.880 2499 to go south, you unlock it by putting Hickory Creek Road in. 00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:00.480 When it's four lanes, six lanes wide, people are not trying to go north to ultimately go 00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:01.480 south. 00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:06.560 They stay on Hickory Creek Road, and they go east and west. 00:59:06.560 --> 00:59:09.360 So this is the entire red segment? 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.320 Yes, ma'am. 00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:14.780 The study actually goes all the way over to where the end of the yellow is. 00:59:14.780 --> 00:59:19.480 So it's planning for future growth out into 2045 as well. 00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:24.440 So what that does is it relieves a lot of the stress that a Ryan Road feels today. 00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:31.800 So when we run through those scenarios in this model, Ryan is a two-lane roadway. 00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:34.880 At worst, it becomes a three-lane roadway off in the future. 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:35.880 It's a collector. 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:40.120 It's a neighborhood street collector to get people to the school, to get them over to 00:59:40.120 --> 00:59:44.000 the larger roads, the 2181, the 1830. 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.280 So TechStat's also looking to do four lanes divided along 1830. 00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:50.480 That's the conversation we had earlier this week. 00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:55.880 So now you've got two four-lane roadways on both sides of Hickory Creek and Ryan Road. 00:59:55.880 --> 01:00:00.280 People go down to Hickory Creek and then out to where they want to go. 01:00:00.280 --> 01:00:06.240 The strain that Ryan Road feels today really only during the peak hours, because most of 01:00:06.240 --> 01:00:09.160 the time you drive Ryan, there's not that many people on it. 01:00:09.160 --> 01:00:12.640 But when people are dropping off kids at school, it backs up significantly when people are 01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:16.040 trying to get to work or come home from work, it does back up at the intersections. 01:00:16.040 --> 01:00:20.800 And there's a new development, right? 01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:21.880 There are a lot of new developments. 01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:22.880 Yes, ma'am. 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:23.880 Ryan Road, yes. 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:24.880 Yes. 01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:25.880 Right on the other side. 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:26.880 Yeah, you can. 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:27.880 You can actually see it over here. 01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:28.880 So there's Ryan Road that sits right there. 01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:29.880 And that green spot. 01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:30.880 And that green spot. 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:31.880 It is. 01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:32.880 Right. 01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:33.880 It's developed. 01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:42.760 Are we still planning to do a park in the future along 377, just to the north of that? 01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:43.760 Yes. 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:46.560 So that park is this square you see right here. 01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:50.000 And that's part of the discussion that we're having with the development that is coming 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.600 in this area is how it connects to the park. 01:00:52.600 --> 01:00:56.440 How do we connect the park and the trail system to the overall roadway network? 01:00:56.440 --> 01:00:59.760 We're working with the Parks Department to make sure that that's not neglected. 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:02.780 It absolutely is a part of the overall plan. 01:01:02.780 --> 01:01:06.360 How do you get all modes of transportation throughout the network? 01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:09.040 There's a fire station on that map right there. 01:01:09.040 --> 01:01:10.040 It is. 01:01:10.040 --> 01:01:11.400 It is just up here. 01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:12.400 That's it right there. 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:13.400 That dot. 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:14.400 That's Vintage Boulevard right there. 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:15.400 Right. 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:22.880 Are there any projects in play to build up southeast end? 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:23.880 Where in particular? 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:29.000 I'm going to say off of Robertson, McKinney, in between those areas. 01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:33.880 Robertson and McKinney, that really we're targeting with more of the neighborhood streets, 01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:36.400 the local streets program, and we'll get into that here in a minute. 01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:43.000 That's one of the areas that we have proposed to go into this bond program. 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.040 Okay. 01:01:45.040 --> 01:01:47.760 So in general, that's the project we have for Hickory Creek Road. 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.640 Again, it's one of those that we're leveraging the most amount of dollars. 01:01:50.640 --> 01:01:54.760 So we put the city's contribution to work in the biggest way. 01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:55.760 Yes, ma'am. 01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:59.200 So in the green segment, there's an elementary school. 01:01:59.200 --> 01:02:00.200 Yes. 01:02:00.200 --> 01:02:06.200 How is that being considered in the whole overall plan because that's going to be a 01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.200 major thoroughfare? 01:02:07.200 --> 01:02:09.840 So that's actually getting a signal at that intersection. 01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:12.760 That's part of the current project going into construction today. 01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:20.240 Boy, that goes through and I can get you pop a Murphy's like that. 01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:21.600 Any other questions on this? 01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:22.600 Just real quick. 01:02:22.600 --> 01:02:23.600 Yes, ma'am. 01:02:23.600 --> 01:02:29.680 Is there, will we be able to receive a breakout of where the funding is coming from? 01:02:29.680 --> 01:02:34.280 Yes, that's a little bit later in the presentation. 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:38.760 It's more projected, but those conversations are happening. 01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:43.200 While we don't have the dollars totally committed yet, it's conversations where everybody's 01:02:43.200 --> 01:02:44.200 very interested. 01:02:44.200 --> 01:02:48.720 Now, the money we're asking for here would build half of that roadway you see in blue. 01:02:48.720 --> 01:02:50.680 It would get the bridges in place, it would build the road. 01:02:50.680 --> 01:02:54.840 Unless you still have a complete roadway when these dollars are approved, you'd still have 01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:59.600 a project that's a workable project, it would just be more of us relying on development 01:02:59.600 --> 01:03:03.600 to come in the future to help build the rest of the roadway. 01:03:03.600 --> 01:03:08.440 So with Bonnie Bray, we're just widening it for now, but we'll have space to expand to 01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:10.040 possibly six lanes later. 01:03:10.040 --> 01:03:11.040 Yes. 01:03:11.040 --> 01:03:12.040 Here, we're going straight up to six. 01:03:12.040 --> 01:03:16.000 Is there a specific reason that we didn't do four lanes? 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:18.600 That's an option we have presented to council. 01:03:18.600 --> 01:03:23.080 The direction we got from council was for the marginal increase in cost, why not go 01:03:23.080 --> 01:03:27.000 ahead and put the six lanes in today and just be ready for what's coming? 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.400 What's the design speed? 01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:30.400 Design speed? 01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:33.800 I don't have that in front of me right now. 01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:38.800 Most likely. 01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:43.720 How about we take a 10-minute break? 01:03:43.720 --> 01:03:47.280 I think that'd be great, because the next one coming up is probably going to take all 01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:48.280 of an hour. 01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:49.280 Okay. 01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:50.280 All right. 01:03:50.280 --> 01:04:06.000 So let's adjourn or let's reconvene at 714, and we're back. 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:09.640 All right. 01:04:09.640 --> 01:04:14.360 So closing up the discussions of Hickory and Bonnie Bray, we're going to move on to local 01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:15.360 streets. 01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.540 Go ahead, Priti. 01:04:19.540 --> 01:04:23.760 Which is definitely the part we look forward to the most tonight, is talking about local 01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:24.760 streets. 01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:30.640 So on the top, there's two maps on the far left over there, my left and your right. 01:04:30.640 --> 01:04:34.800 That map on the far left, your far right, my far left, is the same map you're seeing 01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:37.160 up here on the screen. 01:04:37.160 --> 01:04:42.600 What that map shows are all of the roadway segments that are city-owned roadway segments 01:04:42.600 --> 01:04:50.780 within the city and their OCI, their overall condition index. 01:04:50.780 --> 01:04:57.640 So we rank each score based on a grade, 0 to 100, just like in school. 01:04:57.640 --> 01:05:01.280 That score tells us basically the health of the road. 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.920 There are really two components to that score. 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:07.360 If it were just the pavement and how good a condition the pavement was in, it would 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:10.400 be a PCI, a pavement condition index. 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:16.340 This is an OCI, and what makes it an OCI, overall condition index, is that we're looking 01:05:16.340 --> 01:05:21.080 at the ride quality of the road. 01:05:21.080 --> 01:05:24.680 What that really means is, is it smooth? 01:05:24.680 --> 01:05:28.400 Does it pass a certain test of how smooth that road is? 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:30.080 Why is that important? 01:05:30.080 --> 01:05:33.120 It's important because it adds additional stress to the road. 01:05:33.120 --> 01:05:39.680 So if you can imagine, if there's something sticking up in front of you when you're walking 01:05:39.680 --> 01:05:43.040 and you stub your toe, you've done two things, right? 01:05:43.040 --> 01:05:47.820 It's hurt you, and then whatever you've hit, it either moves or it falls away, or maybe 01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:51.400 it doesn't if it's really that hard and you just didn't see it, but there's some damage 01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:52.400 done to that. 01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:57.920 So your kid leaves a toy out there or a variety of other things and might drop something away. 01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:01.480 You kick it with your foot, it hurts you like it would a car when it's driving down the 01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:02.480 roadway. 01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:07.320 It takes more punishment throughout its drive if those conditions are not met, like potholes, 01:06:07.320 --> 01:06:08.320 right? 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:10.560 Everybody's driven over those and you feel that one. 01:06:10.560 --> 01:06:11.960 But the road takes a beating. 01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:16.840 Now, not to the extreme as a pothole, when your tire goes into a pothole, it hits the 01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:21.360 other side of the pothole and it can cause it to fracture more, which then allows other 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:22.960 things to happen. 01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:27.520 But just being rough, so a piece of the roadway, say we build a concrete roadway and we don't 01:06:27.520 --> 01:06:31.720 finish it appropriately, it's got some humps or some things in it, then your tire hits 01:06:31.720 --> 01:06:32.720 that over time. 01:06:32.720 --> 01:06:37.440 It does other things to the pavement that causes what we would call additional stress, 01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.080 and it causes the road to break down a little faster. 01:06:40.080 --> 01:06:45.480 So the smoother the roadway, the better the ride quality, the better the score, the better 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.680 life we expect to get out of that roadway. 01:06:48.680 --> 01:06:54.480 Just like if you're walking and running down a really rough pavement, you feel it in your 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:56.120 legs and your knees. 01:06:56.120 --> 01:07:02.240 If it's a nice smooth roadway or a nice smooth beach, then you don't feel it as hard on your 01:07:02.240 --> 01:07:03.240 own body parts. 01:07:03.240 --> 01:07:05.800 Cars are the same way, roads are the same way. 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:08.560 They have that same kind of condition. 01:07:08.560 --> 01:07:12.680 Every five years or four to six years depends on where it falls in the budget schedule. 01:07:12.680 --> 01:07:16.360 We have this nice truck that comes through by a company, IMS. 01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:21.800 They drive throughout the city and they assess the condition, the overall health of the roadway, 01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:23.280 the entire roadway network. 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.700 They also pick up a few other things that we get. 01:07:26.700 --> 01:07:29.560 We don't do that just yet, but we will be in the next round. 01:07:29.560 --> 01:07:30.560 We didn't last time. 01:07:30.560 --> 01:07:36.600 The last time we assessed our pavement was in 2015. 01:07:36.600 --> 01:07:42.160 As you can imagine, over time, roads have degraded from what their score was almost 01:07:42.160 --> 01:07:45.580 five years ago, four years ago for sure. 01:07:45.580 --> 01:07:51.800 The way we deal with that instead of spending $150,000 to $200,000 every year to have the 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:55.960 roadway reassessed, and it takes them three months to do that, so then how viable are 01:07:55.960 --> 01:08:03.120 your results, is we also rely on some computer modeling that is tied into GIS, or geographic 01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:08.240 information software, and it allows us to build in how's that roadway going to break 01:08:08.240 --> 01:08:11.080 down over time, what we would expect. 01:08:11.080 --> 01:08:17.680 If it already has a really low grade, if it's 25 or lower, then you would expect it to be 01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:22.680 on the extreme lower health end, and any more damage that it gets over that next four or 01:08:22.680 --> 01:08:25.760 five years, it's just going to get worse. 01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:30.080 On the other side, very extreme high end, something that's really healthy, it can take 01:08:30.080 --> 01:08:34.880 a lot more punishment before you have to do something to it, give it a rest, or let it 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:38.040 rehabilitate in some way. 01:08:38.040 --> 01:08:39.080 Roadways do the exact same thing. 01:08:39.080 --> 01:08:44.240 We use this assessment to double check where our roadways are, and we do that every five 01:08:44.240 --> 01:08:45.240 years. 01:08:45.240 --> 01:08:50.280 We have the next one coming up this next fiscal year, so you will see this truck driving around, 01:08:50.280 --> 01:08:55.920 maybe two or three of them driving around town to collect that data. 01:08:55.920 --> 01:09:01.800 So the pavement life cycle, so we just talked about that software that in 2015, all the 01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:08.320 roadways that we had an assessment for, what was its actual health grade in the field, 01:09:08.320 --> 01:09:12.520 what we've done since then is we do visual inspections, or when we go do construction, 01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:13.960 we actually go and test it. 01:09:13.960 --> 01:09:17.680 We drill holes in it to see what's actually under there, and we get a better idea of what 01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.400 to build in its place. 01:09:20.400 --> 01:09:25.360 Most pavements, so you notice there's no timeline here, that's because pavements come in different 01:09:25.360 --> 01:09:26.360 varieties, right? 01:09:26.360 --> 01:09:31.200 So there's concrete and asphalt are the two primary versions of a roadway you see. 01:09:31.200 --> 01:09:35.360 They typically have a similar life cycle pattern. 01:09:35.360 --> 01:09:40.660 So when they're brand new, they get a score of 100, they're in excellent condition. 01:09:40.660 --> 01:09:44.920 They perform really well, but just like anything, over time as you drive more cars over it, 01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:51.840 as it's exposed to the weather, things settle underneath it, that road starts to degrade. 01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:57.200 So over 40% of its pavement life, you're going to see a small degradation. 01:09:57.200 --> 01:10:02.300 It's going to move into this very good range, on that 85 range, 80 to 85. 01:10:02.300 --> 01:10:06.280 Still a good road, but we need to do some minor maintenance to it, and I can push that 01:10:06.280 --> 01:10:07.800 back up closer to 100. 01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:10.960 I'm not going to get back to perfect. 01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:14.240 That's just almost impossible to always get, but I'll get close. 01:10:14.240 --> 01:10:17.480 That prolongs the life of the pavement the earlier I catch it. 01:10:17.480 --> 01:10:22.720 So to give you an idea, asphalt, we expect typically to last 20 to 25 years if I don't 01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:24.200 do anything to it. 01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:30.240 Now 20 to 25 years means that at 40% of its life, by the time I hit eight years, I need 01:10:30.240 --> 01:10:35.000 to do something to it, or I'm going to fall into this range here, where I go very quickly 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.000 from very good to poor. 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:43.000 And then if I neglect it even further, I move further down that curve to where I'm in that 01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:44.000 very poor range. 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:48.280 And that's where we get into these OCI scores of 30 and less. 01:10:48.280 --> 01:10:50.200 There are those roadways that have the big potholes. 01:10:50.200 --> 01:10:54.920 You start to see whole sections seem to have big ruts and grooves in it, and that's where 01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:58.740 the foundation has failed for a variety of reasons. 01:10:58.740 --> 01:11:02.200 There are a whole host of things that can happen to the pavement, and if we don't stay 01:11:02.200 --> 01:11:06.120 on top of it, then you start to see things like we've seen historically. 01:11:06.120 --> 01:11:10.600 Now what you have seen is City of Denton has been very good over the last six years, eight 01:11:10.600 --> 01:11:14.360 years of really investing in a maintenance program. 01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:20.280 So these bond projects, these debt-funded shots in the arm, so to speak, allows us to 01:11:20.280 --> 01:11:26.040 take those really bad streets and push them back up into a high category so that I can 01:11:26.040 --> 01:11:27.760 then do heavy maintenance to it. 01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:33.320 We can put them under a real robust maintenance program like we're operating today, so those 01:11:33.320 --> 01:11:34.680 roadways will last longer. 01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:38.580 I'll give you an idea of what we're talking about. 01:11:38.580 --> 01:11:43.480 So this lovely chart here, I'm sure it was an engineer who put it together, because it 01:11:43.480 --> 01:11:48.800 makes all the sense in the world to me, and I will attempt to interpret as much as I can. 01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:54.080 So the blue line you see here, we're grading now one segment of roadway, some fictional 01:11:54.080 --> 01:12:02.640 roadway, a lane of it, that lasts over, we're just looking at a 50-year snapshot, okay, 01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.280 50 years of an asphalt roadway. 01:12:05.280 --> 01:12:06.280 Concrete is similar. 01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:07.580 It's just a little bit longer lifespan. 01:12:07.580 --> 01:12:11.160 We expect concrete to last 30 to 40 years. 01:12:11.160 --> 01:12:15.200 So if I do, and this is what I warned you earlier, we'd see some of these engineering 01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:23.000 terms, BST, so if that's bituminous or asphalt, surface treatment, that's a very technical 01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:26.400 term that makes it sound like we actually went to college and know what we're talking 01:12:26.400 --> 01:12:27.400 about. 01:12:27.400 --> 01:12:31.520 What it really means is I'm basically changing the oil in the car, okay? 01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:35.720 These are the things that are fairly low cost, very quick, that I can turn around a roadway 01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:37.680 in a day or less. 01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:41.360 You may have seen one of these trucks that run through town, Intermountain Slurry Seals, 01:12:41.360 --> 01:12:44.000 our current contractor, you'll see it on the sides of the truck. 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:47.040 He drives down the street and everybody calls in and says, "Hey, why are you shutting our 01:12:47.040 --> 01:12:48.040 road down? 01:12:48.040 --> 01:12:50.640 You just were out here five years ago." 01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:54.120 Then the next time they go outside, they're already gone. 01:12:54.120 --> 01:12:55.200 That's a surface treatment. 01:12:55.200 --> 01:12:58.800 That's designed to prolong the life of that roadway. 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:04.640 What we had done five years ago had taken us months to reconstruct from the foundation 01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:05.880 all the way back up. 01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:10.640 I've now given it new life for another five or six years before I got to do it again that 01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:15.880 will potentially allow that roadway to last 40 years or 50 years in the future, as long 01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.880 as I keep it under that continuous maintenance program. 01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:23.920 Is that basically the oil on the rocks, like they do on the highways where they just pour 01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:24.920 oil? 01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:25.920 That's chip seal. 01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:26.920 No, that's chip seal. 01:13:26.920 --> 01:13:27.920 That's different. 01:13:27.920 --> 01:13:28.920 I hate that, but yeah. 01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:29.920 No, that's chip seal. 01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:33.040 I hate that too, but yes, that's chip seal. 01:13:33.040 --> 01:13:37.260 What you will see is if you have a very robust maintenance program, and we do, we have one 01:13:37.260 --> 01:13:38.260 that has been in place. 01:13:38.260 --> 01:13:42.640 Now, there are a variety of reasons why we haven't made as much progress. 01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:46.080 It's a long history of roadways that have just needed to be redone. 01:13:46.080 --> 01:13:48.980 When you start putting a maintenance program together, you're going to have to give it 01:13:48.980 --> 01:13:54.040 some shots in the arm to get these really poor streets up into that upper range where 01:13:54.040 --> 01:13:58.080 the maintenance program can run it. 01:13:58.080 --> 01:14:03.280 Let's take our fictional street, if I were to put, say, $9,000 one year, five or six 01:14:03.280 --> 01:14:08.160 years later, I put another $9,000 into it, and then I give it what we call an overlay. 01:14:08.160 --> 01:14:10.560 What that really means is I'm just going to put a little bit of asphalt on top. 01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:14.960 I might even mill an overlay, which means I'll shave a couple of inches off and add 01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:16.880 two more inches of asphalt on top. 01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:20.040 I've basically given that road another massive shot in the arm. 01:14:20.040 --> 01:14:22.440 That's why you see it shoot up a little higher. 01:14:22.440 --> 01:14:27.640 Those are different gradations or different levels of maintenance. 01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:28.640 It's not just an oil change. 01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:33.600 Now I'm rotating the tires and changing the oil all at the same time. 01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:39.840 Those things are occurring in the same 25-year span where if I just let that road go, I might 01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:41.960 have to spend $300,000 on it. 01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:45.060 I've spent a third of that cost. 01:14:45.060 --> 01:14:50.160 You project that over 50 years, it just compounds on top of itself. 01:14:50.160 --> 01:14:53.120 That's what the two programs are trying to do. 01:14:53.120 --> 01:14:56.960 You've got roadways that are still falling into the poor condition. 01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:00.840 You're never going to have a roadway like this chart seems to imply that you can have 01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.120 a road that lasts for thousands of years. 01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:04.960 That will not happen. 01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:09.680 It might still be in existence like the roads are, but would you really want to drive it? 01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:13.840 I guarantee if you drove those roads today, there wouldn't be a road behind it when you 01:15:13.840 --> 01:15:14.840 drove over it. 01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:16.560 There just wouldn't be. 01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:22.080 They do have a lifespan ultimately, but we can prolong their life and minimize the cost, 01:15:22.080 --> 01:15:27.000 marginalize the cost to our residents and our businesses by putting it down to a really 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:29.920 robust program that's not debt funded. 01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:31.840 That's our operations and maintenance budget. 01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:38.680 That's what we do every year to keep those roadways in a very healthy condition. 01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:42.760 Then I get to these roadways that they just need the help. 01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:45.280 That's what this program is seeking to do. 01:15:45.280 --> 01:15:49.040 Give another shot in the arm to these roadways that need to be brought back up to where I 01:15:49.040 --> 01:15:54.920 can maintain them over the long-term. 01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:57.080 We have ... Somebody asked for a histogram. 01:15:57.080 --> 01:15:58.720 We have a histogram today. 01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:04.200 That is what this is right here, but it's a very good suggestion and it's a good way 01:16:04.200 --> 01:16:05.200 to break this out. 01:16:05.200 --> 01:16:10.760 I'm glad it was brought up, and me as an engineer, I love them. 01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:14.560 What you have are the different gradations we just talked about and a description of 01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:15.640 what they really mean. 01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:18.760 For an asphalt street, you're going to have a 25-year lifespan. 01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:23.600 I can change those years that I expect to do these work based on concrete by taking 01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:28.920 the 40 years and then applying that 40%, 15, of the things on the other chart, and do the 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:33.000 same thing here, and I can do the exact same thing for concrete. 01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:34.000 Different levels of maintenance. 01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:39.440 If I have to do very light maintenance, that slurry seal we talked about, coming in and 01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:44.880 just putting it ... You see the little funny looking lines we put on the roadway, dark 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:45.880 pavement. 01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:49.960 All of a sudden, you all come out and trace with something on the ground. 01:16:49.960 --> 01:16:54.440 That's to fill in cracks that appear in the pavement, whether it's concrete or asphalt. 01:16:54.440 --> 01:16:56.120 We do that for a very big reason. 01:16:56.120 --> 01:16:57.480 You don't want water getting in there. 01:16:57.480 --> 01:17:00.880 If water gets in there, especially if water gets in there and then it freezes, like we 01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:07.080 get once a year for about an hour, it does cause that pavement because water expands 01:17:07.080 --> 01:17:08.160 when it freezes. 01:17:08.160 --> 01:17:11.360 It causes that pavement to then start break in those conditions. 01:17:11.360 --> 01:17:15.640 Once that break gets bigger, then the tires themselves start to make it bigger and bigger 01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:17.500 and it just gets worse. 01:17:17.500 --> 01:17:21.920 Those crack seals are there for that reason to try to prevent that water from getting 01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:22.920 in. 01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:24.800 It's a normal part of maintenance. 01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:30.240 The roadways we're talking about going into the next bond program, this bond program, 01:17:30.240 --> 01:17:35.680 are these roads that have an OCI or a health score of 30 or less. 01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:37.640 They're in this red end right here. 01:17:37.640 --> 01:17:45.640 It totals to about 360 segments. 01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:50.160 In total, what we're proposing as part of this program is an assessment of about 115 01:17:50.160 --> 01:17:51.160 lane miles. 01:17:51.160 --> 01:17:53.920 You see at the top here, it says 162. 01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:58.400 That was the snapshot when this was put together two or three months ago based on projects 01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:02.340 in the 2012 bond that we're finishing. 01:18:02.340 --> 01:18:06.120 Those get pulled out and get pushed up to the green side, and that's why they're not 01:18:06.120 --> 01:18:12.120 into the equation when we start talking about what are we proposing to do going forward. 01:18:12.120 --> 01:18:13.120 Any questions here? 01:18:13.120 --> 01:18:14.120 Okay. 01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:15.120 All right. 01:18:15.120 --> 01:18:19.680 We wore you out with bonny brain hickory creek. 01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:20.680 Sorry. 01:18:20.680 --> 01:18:33.840 I'll come up with one if you ... So you said 115 lane miles that fall in that very low 01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:34.840 range. 01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:35.840 Oh, okay. 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:40.320 I thought you were saying 115 that you were proposing to redo with the 35 million. 01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:41.320 No, no. 01:18:41.320 --> 01:18:42.320 Okay. 01:18:42.320 --> 01:18:43.320 Got it. 01:18:43.320 --> 01:18:44.320 We're about to get into that. 01:18:44.320 --> 01:18:45.320 Okay. 01:18:45.320 --> 01:18:46.320 I have a question. 01:18:46.320 --> 01:18:47.320 Yes, ma'am. 01:18:47.320 --> 01:18:52.900 Is there any plan to change your asphalt to concrete or any other practice surface? 01:18:52.900 --> 01:18:55.280 It depends on where you are. 01:18:55.280 --> 01:18:59.240 Our current philosophy and for a variety of reasons is that we would really prefer that 01:18:59.240 --> 01:19:03.540 the major roadways go down the asphalt pathway and that your residential neighborhood streets 01:19:03.540 --> 01:19:05.760 go down a concrete pathway. 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:10.920 That being that the traffic is lighter so the need to actually do any kind of maintenance 01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:13.720 to reconstruct is very minimal. 01:19:13.720 --> 01:19:18.640 So you have 40 years where we don't have to come park in your driveway and make it impossible 01:19:18.640 --> 01:19:22.400 to go to the grocery store for a little while while we river the road. 01:19:22.400 --> 01:19:26.760 Then on a major roadway, the advantage of an asphalt roadway, the cost is about the 01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:28.080 same. 01:19:28.080 --> 01:19:30.560 Over the long term, the maintenance is about the same. 01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:35.400 The difference is I have to maintain asphalt roadways more frequently. 01:19:35.400 --> 01:19:39.440 It's just more expensive to maintain a concrete road because I have to replace a whole piece 01:19:39.440 --> 01:19:42.560 of the road versus asphalt. 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.320 I got a lot of other options that can be done very quickly. 01:19:45.320 --> 01:19:52.720 If I reconstruct an asphalt roadway, if you think of Carroll Boulevard, it's all concrete. 01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:57.600 If I have to go replace something in Carroll, I've got to shut down a whole lane of Carroll 01:19:57.600 --> 01:20:01.320 for a month to a month and a half on waiting on concrete to get set up. 01:20:01.320 --> 01:20:07.080 Now, if I do asphalt, the trade-off of asphalt is you could be driving on it within a couple 01:20:07.080 --> 01:20:11.560 of days and I can do long stretches very quickly. 01:20:11.560 --> 01:20:15.920 If I think about where the heaviest traffic is and the high volume users where I want 01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:20.480 to have the least amount of impact where I'm really doing this work, I want to do it where 01:20:20.480 --> 01:20:24.280 I can turn the road back over to use much quicker. 01:20:24.280 --> 01:20:28.720 So any concept of that going down for Bonnie Bray or any of the other road projects? 01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:29.720 Yes, ma'am. 01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:30.720 Awesome. 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:31.720 I have a question. 01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:38.420 So of the 115 lane miles that are under 30 OCI right now, let's say we had the money 01:20:38.420 --> 01:20:43.560 and the time and the staffing and all of that to just redo them all tomorrow. 01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:47.760 Approximately how much would that cost based on the average cost to reconstruct a lane 01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:48.760 mile? 01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:50.360 If you'll bear with me, we're going to get to that. 01:20:50.360 --> 01:20:51.360 Oh, we're going to get to that. 01:20:51.360 --> 01:20:52.360 Okay. 01:20:52.360 --> 01:20:55.440 We absolutely are going to get there. 01:20:55.440 --> 01:21:02.160 All right, so what you have in front of you here are three options that as a staff we've 01:21:02.160 --> 01:21:07.080 been digging into as to what can we do? 01:21:07.080 --> 01:21:13.200 There are multiple ways that we can go about trying to get our arms around and fixing those 01:21:13.200 --> 01:21:16.280 OCI streets that have a health score lower than 30. 01:21:16.280 --> 01:21:21.040 One way is what we did in 2012 and 2014 and I would call the shotgun approach. 01:21:21.040 --> 01:21:22.860 I just said, what are the worst streets? 01:21:22.860 --> 01:21:24.640 I don't care where they are. 01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:29.440 I don't care who it impacts, where are the worst ones and we'll go do those. 01:21:29.440 --> 01:21:30.440 Worst first. 01:21:30.440 --> 01:21:31.440 Worst first. 01:21:31.440 --> 01:21:32.440 Here's the problem. 01:21:32.440 --> 01:21:39.760 If the worst one ends up here and then another worst one ends up over here, I haven't done 01:21:39.760 --> 01:21:43.660 anything with the roadway in between it. 01:21:43.660 --> 01:21:49.680 So the reality is, is I go do this project in 2014 on this side and on this side and 01:21:49.680 --> 01:21:54.920 then I come back in 2019 or 2020 after I've already made everybody mad once and guess 01:21:54.920 --> 01:21:55.920 what? 01:21:55.920 --> 01:21:58.820 I'm going to come back and do it again and I might do another segment because it hadn't 01:21:58.820 --> 01:22:00.160 fallen into that range yet. 01:22:00.160 --> 01:22:05.480 I might come back again another five years later to do that segment. 01:22:05.480 --> 01:22:09.600 So part of where our maintenance dollars have gone over the last five or six years is try 01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:14.680 to close that gap where we could by taking those segments that weren't accounted for 01:22:14.680 --> 01:22:19.040 in the 2012 and 2014 bond program and connecting them. 01:22:19.040 --> 01:22:23.920 It's also why it's taken us longer to get through the 2012 and 2014 bond program. 01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:29.840 We've actually done more roads than what was just identified in those programs. 01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:34.960 Does that make sense? 01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:36.360 So that is one option. 01:22:36.360 --> 01:22:37.500 We could do that again. 01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:41.600 We could do the shotgun approach and we could just go hit everything that's low because 01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:44.480 they are the neediest children out there. 01:22:44.480 --> 01:22:46.080 We could go do that. 01:22:46.080 --> 01:22:51.160 Another option would be okay, let's partner with our other infrastructure providers like 01:22:51.160 --> 01:22:56.720 water, wastewater, drainage and let's say what's on their host of projects, what's their 01:22:56.720 --> 01:23:01.240 CIP program look like because a water line has the same problem a roadway has, right? 01:23:01.240 --> 01:23:02.840 It's going to fall apart over some time. 01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:07.440 It will last 40, 50 years and at some point you've got to go replace it or it breaks a 01:23:07.440 --> 01:23:08.440 lot. 01:23:08.440 --> 01:23:11.500 Once you get one break, the likelihood you get another one is very good. 01:23:11.500 --> 01:23:15.480 So you end up replacing segments of other pieces of utilities and what's been a problem 01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:20.080 in the past is the water department had their program, the wastewater department had their 01:23:20.080 --> 01:23:24.080 program, streets had their program, and drains had their program and everybody's doing their 01:23:24.080 --> 01:23:29.600 program and nobody's looking at a cohesive way of doing them together. 01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:36.440 So I go tear up your street now and then four months later wastewater comes in and they 01:23:36.440 --> 01:23:40.240 do the same thing and you think well I'm done with construction, where did you guys come 01:23:40.240 --> 01:23:41.240 from? 01:23:41.240 --> 01:23:44.680 And then six months after they're done, streets comes in and they do their part. 01:23:44.680 --> 01:23:49.840 So we're there for a very long time and every time one of us leaves you think I'm done but 01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:53.400 then somebody else comes. 01:23:53.400 --> 01:24:00.080 That is one problem with having aging infrastructure throughout the entire city limits, all of 01:24:00.080 --> 01:24:01.080 them at different ages. 01:24:01.080 --> 01:24:05.880 It's things from 100 years old all the way up to just installed yesterday and they all 01:24:05.880 --> 01:24:06.880 have different issues. 01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:10.340 They have different problems that we're trying to deal with and try to merging those efforts. 01:24:10.340 --> 01:24:15.600 So one of the options we put together was what I would call the most efficient way of 01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:20.480 doing it, at least our version of it I'm sure, there are other options and that was we work 01:24:20.480 --> 01:24:24.760 with water, we work with wastewater, where are their needs, where are the lowest OCI 01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:29.280 streets, how do we combine those two efforts together and while I may not be able to get 01:24:29.280 --> 01:24:35.360 every one of the lowest OCI streets, I'm only going to impact a certain area for the maximum 01:24:35.360 --> 01:24:40.200 amount of time, one time, and then I don't come back for say 20 or 30 years unless I'm 01:24:40.200 --> 01:24:44.240 doing maintenance, you know, there's a main break or something happens that I need to 01:24:44.240 --> 01:24:48.600 go take care of, I might come back then but I'm not totally tearing up the roadway for 01:24:48.600 --> 01:24:51.360 long periods of time and then coming back and doing it again. 01:24:51.360 --> 01:24:59.160 I think that's the most efficient way of all of the user fees and tax dollars is doing 01:24:59.160 --> 01:25:00.760 it that way. 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:01.760 That's one option. 01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:07.160 Then there's another option and the other option is kind of a mix of both and when you 01:25:07.160 --> 01:25:11.600 start getting into the mix of both, we do locations, we can combine all those efforts 01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:16.120 all together, take on what I would call take on an entire neighborhood at one time. 01:25:16.120 --> 01:25:20.040 So if I'm coming into your neighborhood, I'm taking into your entire neighborhood for one 01:25:20.040 --> 01:25:24.160 period of time, we get all this work done and then I don't want to come back and bother 01:25:24.160 --> 01:25:26.760 you for another 30 years. 01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:27.760 That's one way. 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:32.640 If I combine the two, then I'm going to be leaving some of the neediest out but not as 01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:37.200 many as I would when I'm in that most efficient state, the more efficient way of doing it, 01:25:37.200 --> 01:25:39.720 at least in our opinion. 01:25:39.720 --> 01:25:44.600 But I'm also not going to miss some of the opportunities of being as efficient as possible. 01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:51.080 So we're going to dive into those just a little bit and get into that a little bit more. 01:25:51.080 --> 01:25:58.600 So if I go with the shotgun approach, everything under 30 when it comes to an OCI. 01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:04.520 And one of the things I do want to make sure that we're cognizant of is when we're talking 01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:10.160 about a 30 OCI today or lower, that's that projected OCI we talked about. 01:26:10.160 --> 01:26:13.280 The machine came through and told us what the health was five years ago, almost five 01:26:13.280 --> 01:26:14.280 years ago. 01:26:14.280 --> 01:26:18.480 We've projected what its health is today, both through visual inspection and what our 01:26:18.480 --> 01:26:23.060 models are telling us is most likely happening under the pavement. 01:26:23.060 --> 01:26:24.360 So they're projecting. 01:26:24.360 --> 01:26:29.660 When we actually get the revised survey done, we may find some of these are better shaped 01:26:29.660 --> 01:26:32.280 than others and others may be worse than what we think. 01:26:32.280 --> 01:26:35.920 That'll dovetail with making a better model for the future as well. 01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:42.320 But that being the case, if we take what we are projecting today to be those 30 OCI streets 01:26:42.320 --> 01:26:46.220 and less, you have several advantage going down that path. 01:26:46.220 --> 01:26:48.400 We get the lowest, the worst done first. 01:26:48.400 --> 01:26:49.960 We get them all done. 01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:54.080 So we take those 30 OCI streets and we move them into the very good column, the excellent 01:26:54.080 --> 01:26:55.760 column and say, those are finished. 01:26:55.760 --> 01:26:56.760 I'm not coming back to touch them. 01:26:56.760 --> 01:26:59.120 And now they're in a good maintenance program. 01:26:59.120 --> 01:27:03.360 So I shouldn't have to deal with that for a much longer time period. 01:27:03.360 --> 01:27:05.320 There are some disadvantages to that. 01:27:05.320 --> 01:27:07.440 I'm not getting those connections necessarily, right? 01:27:07.440 --> 01:27:09.800 So I'm here, I'm here, I'm there. 01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:12.880 I'm also losing some economies of scale, right? 01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:14.840 So economies of scale. 01:27:14.840 --> 01:27:18.480 If I can keep a contractor from driving from this side of town to that side of town and 01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:21.200 figuring out where he's going to store his materials and when he's got to have available 01:27:21.200 --> 01:27:26.040 when and where I'm going to get a better price because he can stay here in a much smaller 01:27:26.040 --> 01:27:29.520 area for longer and then move on to the next project. 01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:31.960 If he's moving all over town, he's paying fuel prices. 01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:34.560 He's trying to get his suppliers to pay the exact same. 01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:38.880 There's a lot of things that happen and making much more difficult. 01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:42.240 Combine that with when I take the shotgun approach, I'm going to have a lot of streets 01:27:42.240 --> 01:27:44.760 under construction and all kinds of different areas. 01:27:44.760 --> 01:27:50.720 And it's very hard for us to start planning what would alternative routes be. 01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:52.520 That leads to that construction fatigue, right? 01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:56.120 So you get tired of seeing the orange cones and the orange cones are going to be here 01:27:56.120 --> 01:27:58.160 for a while. 01:27:58.160 --> 01:28:02.720 Those orange cones, when they're everywhere, get you frustrated because it's like, where 01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:03.720 do I go next? 01:28:03.720 --> 01:28:04.720 Right? 01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:05.720 Where do I go now? 01:28:05.720 --> 01:28:11.240 As opposed to I get into a methodology that allows me to plan more strategically where 01:28:11.240 --> 01:28:15.320 that construction is going to happen and I can give better alternative routes for longer 01:28:15.320 --> 01:28:16.320 periods. 01:28:16.320 --> 01:28:18.080 I can adjust signal timing. 01:28:18.080 --> 01:28:22.480 I can take advantage of some natural flow patterns that would change. 01:28:22.480 --> 01:28:25.800 And I can make those improvements strategically along the way. 01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:31.240 So I lose that when I take the shotgun approach because I'm basically putting out fire everywhere 01:28:31.240 --> 01:28:34.160 I go and I'm just going. 01:28:34.160 --> 01:28:41.080 To give you an idea of the cost, if I were in these ranges are zero to five, take the 01:28:41.080 --> 01:28:42.080 absolute worst. 01:28:42.080 --> 01:28:48.080 We got three streets that fall into that category, they have an OCI projected less than five. 01:28:48.080 --> 01:28:49.080 Right? 01:28:49.080 --> 01:28:52.040 I don't know how they're holding together is what we're basically saying. 01:28:52.040 --> 01:28:57.320 So to redo those roads, now there are less traveled roadways. 01:28:57.320 --> 01:29:01.200 They're kind of on the outskirts town so they really hadn't had as much of the maintenance 01:29:01.200 --> 01:29:02.200 over time. 01:29:02.200 --> 01:29:04.400 And that's part of the reason why they're incurring that cost. 01:29:04.400 --> 01:29:07.400 It's got a lower cost because they are smaller segments. 01:29:07.400 --> 01:29:09.880 They're not as heavily traveled. 01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:12.860 So it's a different, it's not like I'm replacing four lanes of a roadway, right? 01:29:12.860 --> 01:29:14.720 It's a very small roadway. 01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:17.740 You got a million dollar cost wrapped up in those three roads because they are that bad. 01:29:17.740 --> 01:29:19.600 And then we got to redo it. 01:29:19.600 --> 01:29:23.800 You got the next category, zero to ten, that includes the zero to five and adds the next 01:29:23.800 --> 01:29:29.280 category or projecting that's about a five million dollar investment to bring those roadways 01:29:29.280 --> 01:29:30.280 up. 01:29:30.280 --> 01:29:34.720 This is, as you come down, you're just seeing the overall cost of if I went zero to 15, 01:29:34.720 --> 01:29:36.680 zero to 20, zero to 30. 01:29:36.680 --> 01:29:42.920 So if I did all the things, all of the roadways that are under that 30 cap, I'm looking at 01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:49.200 a 95 million dollar outlay to bring those roads back up into that excellent condition, ready 01:29:49.200 --> 01:29:53.520 to engage in the maintenance program. 01:29:53.520 --> 01:30:02.600 What drives the difference in dollar per lane mile as you step through the table here? 01:30:02.600 --> 01:30:07.520 We've generated a cost based on those roadways that's built into the program and that's a 01:30:07.520 --> 01:30:08.520 variety of issues. 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:13.480 And Danny can actually get into that a little bit more detail, but it might be better to 01:30:13.480 --> 01:30:14.800 issue that as a separate statement. 01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:19.000 We just want to hear all of it, but it's probably more interesting to you and me. 01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:23.200 Well, I mean, I could imagine at a high level that the roads that are worse off now probably 01:30:23.200 --> 01:30:25.520 need more work than the roads that are... 01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:26.520 They do. 01:30:26.520 --> 01:30:27.520 To repair the sensor. 01:30:27.520 --> 01:30:31.760 It's a variety of things that go into that and there's a projected amount. 01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:36.040 So the issue is that I'm not going to be able to resolve all of those. 01:30:36.040 --> 01:30:40.560 I have a contingency built into these numbers just like we did with the other roadways, 01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.320 but there are a variety of conditions we're dealing with. 01:30:44.320 --> 01:30:50.480 So coming off of Bell Street, turning onto Robertson, I know I'm stuck on Robertson Street. 01:30:50.480 --> 01:30:54.440 So the first thing you see is welcome to Southeast Denton. 01:30:54.440 --> 01:30:59.560 The second thing you see is a huge crater pothole that's right there that's been there 01:30:59.560 --> 01:31:02.360 for ages. 01:31:02.360 --> 01:31:04.880 When are we going to repair that or get that fixed? 01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:09.240 Because I know we've been going and having different meetings and we've been saying that 01:31:09.240 --> 01:31:12.920 it's going to get on the maintenance list and it's going to get done. 01:31:12.920 --> 01:31:15.080 Just be patient. 01:31:15.080 --> 01:31:17.660 This has been a year since I've been going. 01:31:17.660 --> 01:31:19.760 So this pothole has been there before then. 01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:21.240 So when is that going to get repaired? 01:31:21.240 --> 01:31:23.160 We'll go take a look at it tomorrow. 01:31:23.160 --> 01:31:25.800 I can't tell you the timeline on that right here, right this moment. 01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:26.800 I'd have to... 01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:28.680 Danny and his team would have to go assess that. 01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:32.960 But you've got the right two guys in here to say, "Hey, somebody go take a look at this 01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:33.960 now." 01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:34.960 Please. 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:35.960 Thank you. 01:31:35.960 --> 01:31:42.320 So would that be an example of the zero to five for the OCI? 01:31:42.320 --> 01:31:43.320 It might not be. 01:31:43.320 --> 01:31:44.320 There's a variety of reasons. 01:31:44.320 --> 01:31:47.120 When we're looking at this OCI score, it's the entire segment. 01:31:47.120 --> 01:31:49.880 So it'd be from one intersection to another intersection. 01:31:49.880 --> 01:31:52.600 A pothole might have a variety of causes. 01:31:52.600 --> 01:31:56.640 And when it starts small and you don't catch it small, it just gets bigger and bigger and 01:31:56.640 --> 01:31:57.640 bigger. 01:31:57.640 --> 01:32:00.080 And obviously, this is one that needs to be taken care of. 01:32:00.080 --> 01:32:02.400 Other things could have happened too. 01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:05.680 You could have had what we call a base failure, which means the foundation of the road for 01:32:05.680 --> 01:32:09.200 whatever reason starts to crumble or it fails or subsides. 01:32:09.200 --> 01:32:14.240 And then the pavement, which is just a bridge over a gap now, falls with it. 01:32:14.240 --> 01:32:15.640 That could have happened for some other reasons. 01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:20.560 There's a whole host of conditions that could happen to make that work. 01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:24.080 And assessment of that on an individual basis is really what it calls for. 01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:26.680 So we just have to go out and take a look at it and see what's really causing it. 01:32:26.680 --> 01:32:28.640 Are you talking about like sinkholes? 01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:30.240 No, not like a sinkhole. 01:32:30.240 --> 01:32:31.240 That can happen. 01:32:31.240 --> 01:32:34.200 But a pothole can develop for a variety of reasons. 01:32:34.200 --> 01:32:37.880 So sometimes you do have water that flows through the dirt, right? 01:32:37.880 --> 01:32:38.880 So it's groundwater. 01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:40.040 We've all heard of that. 01:32:40.040 --> 01:32:43.640 If something may have changed in a drainage pattern, that might have caused it. 01:32:43.640 --> 01:32:45.040 More traffic than normal. 01:32:45.040 --> 01:32:50.380 So for instance, I know we've had a lot of concrete panels on Bell under construction 01:32:50.380 --> 01:32:54.280 being repaired to that segment, which has caused some diversion of traffic as they try 01:32:54.280 --> 01:32:56.640 to figure out how to get around. 01:32:56.640 --> 01:33:01.680 When you got more traffic than normal, the pavement's been sitting dormant for a while. 01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:04.120 And I know that roadway is on one of these low OCI scores. 01:33:04.120 --> 01:33:08.840 So now it's got excessive traffic on it that it wasn't intended to have. 01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:09.840 And it's old. 01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:10.840 It needs some work. 01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:15.080 So it just sped up the process of what might have happened if you had just left it alone 01:33:15.080 --> 01:33:16.560 for another five years. 01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:17.560 Yeah. 01:33:17.560 --> 01:33:26.840 So can I get a map or a list of all the streets that have been repaired or faked by the bond 01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:27.840 projects? 01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:29.960 And then which ones are part of Southeast Denton? 01:33:29.960 --> 01:33:31.560 As far as the 2012 and 2014? 01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:32.560 Yes, sir. 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:33.560 There was a map. 01:33:33.560 --> 01:33:39.720 No, there was a list that was published, but the bond booklets in 2014 and 2012. 01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:40.720 And they are available, yes. 01:33:40.720 --> 01:33:41.720 Okay. 01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:42.720 I think they're available on the website, right? 01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:43.720 You have the 2014? 01:33:43.720 --> 01:33:44.720 Yeah. 01:33:44.720 --> 01:33:45.720 We can get something to you. 01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:46.720 Thank you. 01:33:46.720 --> 01:33:50.880 It's also in the first packet right here. 01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:51.880 Okay. 01:33:51.880 --> 01:33:59.240 Also with the part of the bond projects, I know we are fixing quite a few other streets, 01:33:59.240 --> 01:34:03.760 but is there any part of this bond money going to fix Southeast Denton? 01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:07.240 I've talked to a few of the people in the community. 01:34:07.240 --> 01:34:11.480 There's areas in Southeast Denton outside of the tracks that haven't been repaired or 01:34:11.480 --> 01:34:14.480 had any pavement since the 1960s. 01:34:14.480 --> 01:34:16.780 There's roads still over there that are dirt roads. 01:34:16.780 --> 01:34:20.080 So do we plan on correcting that or fixing it or paving them? 01:34:20.080 --> 01:34:27.000 In all three of these options, there are roads in that Southeast Denton sector that is in 01:34:27.000 --> 01:34:28.000 this program. 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:29.000 Yes. 01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:30.000 Okay. 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:31.000 Now one is more focused than the others. 01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:32.000 And you'll see that here in a minute. 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:36.160 When we get into the more efficient use, it's more focused to a neighborhood wide solution 01:34:36.160 --> 01:34:41.160 as opposed to let me fix the worst ones here and I'll fix the worst one over here and some 01:34:41.160 --> 01:34:43.880 of those fall in that Southeast Denton category. 01:34:43.880 --> 01:34:44.880 Okay. 01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:51.840 Any other questions on this scenario? 01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:56.100 All right. 01:34:56.100 --> 01:35:00.600 So now let's move into what we were calling the more efficient way of getting these projects 01:35:00.600 --> 01:35:01.600 done. 01:35:01.600 --> 01:35:06.920 So this was taking a look at where the overall, from a neighborhood perspective, overall worst 01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:12.600 OCIs throughout the city and then centering in on neighborhoods so that when we go into 01:35:12.600 --> 01:35:18.840 the neighborhood, we work an entire neighborhood one time and the intent being that we bring 01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:24.040 all infrastructure up to new or virtually new. 01:35:24.040 --> 01:35:29.160 And that includes water, wastewater, includes storm water and in the streets. 01:35:29.160 --> 01:35:34.480 So what you're seeing here is our first shot at that is you've got different sectors and 01:35:34.480 --> 01:35:39.680 this is not, the numbers on the sectors here has nothing to do with what we deem to be 01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:41.360 the most important or least important. 01:35:41.360 --> 01:35:45.040 This is just how it was numbered from top to bottom, somebody threw a number on it. 01:35:45.040 --> 01:35:49.360 So one of those sectors that we're talking about is Southeast Denton, it's that section 01:35:49.360 --> 01:35:57.240 four where there's been an inattention over time from a variety of infrastructure improvements. 01:35:57.240 --> 01:35:58.960 Water, wastewater is included in that. 01:35:58.960 --> 01:36:02.400 So one of the things you don't see in these numbers here is that there's an additional 01:36:02.400 --> 01:36:09.280 expenditure of funds that come from water and wastewater revenues to make this happen. 01:36:09.280 --> 01:36:15.960 So when we get into say doing, say we're doing section four, we do the roadways, the roadway 01:36:15.960 --> 01:36:17.880 number is here. 01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:22.160 So that's 51 segments, it's approximately 13 lane miles and it's almost $11 million 01:36:22.160 --> 01:36:23.840 worth of roadway improvements. 01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:31.120 What you don't see is the $12 million in water and wastewater improvements that also get 01:36:31.120 --> 01:36:34.200 tied to that as well because these are just the bond dollars. 01:36:34.200 --> 01:36:38.440 That's a totally different revenue stream but it has an impact because now the water 01:36:38.440 --> 01:36:43.400 and wastewater program, they have made some changes based on this plan. 01:36:43.400 --> 01:36:48.920 They have a CIP that says well they're going to work their worst and work through that. 01:36:48.920 --> 01:36:54.040 Now we're changing the game saying okay we'll hold off on some of the roadway worst conditions 01:36:54.040 --> 01:36:56.600 to help you with some of your water and wastewater worst. 01:36:56.600 --> 01:37:01.820 If you'll help us even though your water line might not be bad where our OCI is really bad, 01:37:01.820 --> 01:37:06.600 if you'll go ahead and do what improvements need to be done there so we don't have to 01:37:06.600 --> 01:37:13.680 come back and do that improvement in 30 years, then what this is is balancing the priorities 01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:17.440 between the different departments and how do we get the best economies of scale from 01:37:17.440 --> 01:37:22.960 contractors because I've got one contractor in an area so I'm going to get a better price. 01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:28.120 They're there for one time and then I shouldn't have to come back for another 30 or 40 years. 01:37:28.120 --> 01:37:32.920 If I do, it's for a very specific maintenance, it's somebody had a water main break or a 01:37:32.920 --> 01:37:34.640 new house got built which is even better, right? 01:37:34.640 --> 01:37:37.700 A new house gets built and I've got to put in a new water line. 01:37:37.700 --> 01:37:41.560 So those kinds of things are happening but it's not total reconstruction and tearing 01:37:41.560 --> 01:37:44.880 up the roadways and utilities that are in the ground. 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:49.800 So that is what this option is and if you were to take the seven sections presented, 01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:54.520 we did evaluate these seven sections based on how does that overcome both challenges 01:37:54.520 --> 01:38:00.120 for the water/wastewater department as well as the needs that we have on the roadway side 01:38:00.120 --> 01:38:05.720 and localize, focus those efforts as efficiently as possible, that's what this option is. 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:13.160 So the total there would be about a 70 million dollar expenditure to put that into the ground. 01:38:13.160 --> 01:38:20.120 Now one of the things that is a downside here and I don't have a good number, we're working 01:38:20.120 --> 01:38:24.600 on that number, is what does that mean to the overall city's OCI? 01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:32.640 So we talked about 64 is the overall city OCI which across the nation, 60, anything 01:38:32.640 --> 01:38:39.280 between 60 and 70 is considered a very good condition for your entire city network, it's 01:38:39.280 --> 01:38:40.280 a good condition. 01:38:40.280 --> 01:38:44.940 That's on average, that's what people shoot for, we're shooting for better because the 01:38:44.940 --> 01:38:53.480 overall cost long term are much more marginalized if I go for a better overall score. 01:38:53.480 --> 01:38:59.540 If I take the shotgun approach, I can get a more efficient means of shooting the OCI 01:38:59.540 --> 01:39:03.840 up quickly, but the problem is right behind that is that whole group of roads that's in 01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:08.280 the 30 to 45 range, they're going to start falling into the 0 to 30 range and now I've 01:39:08.280 --> 01:39:12.880 got another 300 or 400 segments that I've got to go do the exact same thing to in six 01:39:12.880 --> 01:39:13.880 years. 01:39:13.880 --> 01:39:17.880 How is this blue smears? 01:39:17.880 --> 01:39:19.880 So blue is just… 01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:22.080 Are there other streets under there? 01:39:22.080 --> 01:39:27.360 So the short answer is that blue line is rich, we should have just put street because that's 01:39:27.360 --> 01:39:28.360 all it really is. 01:39:28.360 --> 01:39:32.960 It's those roadways under that blue line is the roadway that exists there between 0 01:39:32.960 --> 01:39:35.640 and 45 on the health score. 01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:38.160 So all streets under the blue. 01:39:38.160 --> 01:39:41.680 If it's still above the 45, that's what we would consider part of the maintenance 01:39:41.680 --> 01:39:46.820 program because I have an ability to arrest its degradation quickly and shoot it back 01:39:46.820 --> 01:39:50.500 up into an acceptable range in that 80 to 90 range. 01:39:50.500 --> 01:39:52.200 That's why it's not in there. 01:39:52.200 --> 01:39:55.120 These would be roads we'd do something much more significant to. 01:39:55.120 --> 01:40:02.040 But it would, again, it would bring the entire neighborhood up to a range where I can prolong 01:40:02.040 --> 01:40:05.440 its maintenance over the life cycle of its expected life. 01:40:05.440 --> 01:40:11.160 How many of the very poor streets, you've already said it and I didn't catch it, are 01:40:11.160 --> 01:40:12.160 not going to be addressed? 01:40:12.160 --> 01:40:15.160 We're going to get there on the next slide. 01:40:15.160 --> 01:40:16.160 Okay. 01:40:16.160 --> 01:40:20.880 All the great questions, perfect segue into the next option. 01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:26.160 So under the next option, and this just gives you an example of if we were to take one of 01:40:26.160 --> 01:40:28.040 those sections, what would that do? 01:40:28.040 --> 01:40:32.920 We would project it on average because there's also roadways we're not going to touch. 01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:40.120 On average, it would bring the entire neighborhood from say a 30, 27 to 30 OCI up to a 75. 01:40:40.120 --> 01:40:46.080 That would be fairly typical of what we're talking about in this method. 01:40:46.080 --> 01:40:51.280 So this would be staff's recommendation is that we combine both. 01:40:51.280 --> 01:40:52.440 So that's the hybrid. 01:40:52.440 --> 01:40:54.840 This is the hybrid option. 01:40:54.840 --> 01:41:01.400 So if we go into working all purely sections or segments of town or neighborhoods of town, 01:41:01.400 --> 01:41:07.600 which is where we want to be long-term, recognizing that you got roadways that just, they need 01:41:07.600 --> 01:41:09.680 help now. 01:41:09.680 --> 01:41:15.640 So how do I combine both this neighborhood approach with I got to get some of the absolute 01:41:15.640 --> 01:41:21.520 worst off the books today, but I can't do all of it because if I were to do all of it, 01:41:21.520 --> 01:41:28.000 that's $70 million plus $95 million and that's the whole proposition to right there. 01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:32.440 So our recommendation is, is you take certain neighborhoods, those that really do have the 01:41:32.440 --> 01:41:37.920 worst worst case scenario infrastructure needs, their roads are deteriorating, their water 01:41:37.920 --> 01:41:42.880 wastewater pieces are older, they're deteriorating and they need to be done. 01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:48.440 So those sectors or neighborhoods of town, we would go do first. 01:41:48.440 --> 01:41:53.520 Those to me would be the for sure that we go with that approach, but then we still have 01:41:53.520 --> 01:41:58.680 another whole segment of those roadways that fall under 30 OCI that I need to go do something 01:41:58.680 --> 01:42:03.640 to so they don't just, they don't become a safety concern at that point, right? 01:42:03.640 --> 01:42:07.000 Accidents, damages to vehicles, we don't want that to happen either. 01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:11.720 So I want to go address those other issues and then I'm going to be forced to deal with 01:42:11.720 --> 01:42:15.140 some of the I'll do here and I'll do there and I'm going to miss the in between. 01:42:15.140 --> 01:42:19.400 I'll be forced to deal with that over the next five or six years as we transition from 01:42:19.400 --> 01:42:25.600 one methodology to a new more efficient methodology where we have less impact on the neighborhoods. 01:42:25.600 --> 01:42:31.200 So what we would propose is if I can get some savings or even potentially on one project 01:42:31.200 --> 01:42:37.560 in the proposition and then potentially maybe there's an increase in the overall, see where 01:42:37.560 --> 01:42:45.480 this where your conversations lead us, that we would take at least the OCI of 15 and less, 01:42:45.480 --> 01:42:47.440 even better 20 and less. 01:42:47.440 --> 01:42:55.280 If I were to take 15 and less, you add up 10.7, 17.9 and 10.8 on these neighborhoods. 01:42:55.280 --> 01:42:59.920 So those are the three neighborhoods we would recommend today. 01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:02.800 That's roughly about 39 to $40 million. 01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:07.520 Then you would tag on another 18.2 to hit the 15 and under that are not included in 01:43:07.520 --> 01:43:08.520 those neighborhoods. 01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:13.040 So it's a little bit of both. 01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:16.120 Are these estimates including inflation and some of the other things? 01:43:16.120 --> 01:43:17.120 Yes. 01:43:17.120 --> 01:43:18.120 Okay. 01:43:18.120 --> 01:43:24.160 And how did you, just out of curiosity, roll out section two versus one, three and four? 01:43:24.160 --> 01:43:29.520 The average on general throughout the neighborhood, the OCI was higher than the others. 01:43:29.520 --> 01:43:30.520 It was very close. 01:43:30.520 --> 01:43:35.560 I mean, you could take any one of these seven and be like, we just need to do all seven. 01:43:35.560 --> 01:43:39.540 So how do you start picking and choosing, it really came down to where were the most 01:43:39.540 --> 01:43:46.020 coincidence of water, wastewater improvements that needed to be done, worse streets overall 01:43:46.020 --> 01:43:47.940 throughout the neighborhood. 01:43:47.940 --> 01:43:50.000 That's where we picked those top three. 01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:52.200 Total construction fatigue. 01:43:52.200 --> 01:43:57.200 Where's the biggest bang for the buck across all of those improvements? 01:43:57.200 --> 01:44:01.920 And then I want to still plug in those gaps on those really bad streets so that we don't 01:44:01.920 --> 01:44:04.040 lose some ground on those. 01:44:04.040 --> 01:44:08.740 We kind of get a little bit of both in this scenario and that's where we would recommend 01:44:08.740 --> 01:44:12.800 is that we go down this pathway, gearing us up for future bond programs where we get more 01:44:12.800 --> 01:44:16.800 into the more efficient way of doing these improvements. 01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:20.440 But this would give us a little bit more of that push to take care of the older, worse 01:44:20.440 --> 01:44:22.880 off streets and put them in the new category. 01:44:22.880 --> 01:44:29.640 So if we went with these highlighted blue sections, can you draw us a map for next time? 01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:30.640 Sure. 01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:31.640 Didn't you have one? 01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:32.640 No. 01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:34.560 We didn't have one in this presentation. 01:44:34.560 --> 01:44:36.800 But we can put together a map of what that looks like. 01:44:36.800 --> 01:44:41.440 We just want to come to you with these because we set this up in such a way that we can talk 01:44:41.440 --> 01:44:44.800 a little bit about how far do you want to go. 01:44:44.800 --> 01:44:48.000 So we can pick and choose and before we start really laying out a map and what does that 01:44:48.000 --> 01:44:52.840 really mean, that's really we want to have the conversation with you. 01:44:52.840 --> 01:45:04.280 Sorry, just to clarify, this staff recommended option, you're still suggesting taking care 01:45:04.280 --> 01:45:09.240 of everything below 20 and those three sections. 01:45:09.240 --> 01:45:10.240 Yes. 01:45:10.240 --> 01:45:11.240 Yes. 01:45:11.240 --> 01:45:12.240 Any feedback? 01:45:12.240 --> 01:45:13.240 Thoughts? 01:45:13.240 --> 01:45:14.240 No, I'm good. 01:45:14.240 --> 01:45:15.240 Southeast end. 01:45:15.240 --> 01:45:16.240 Southeast end. 01:45:16.240 --> 01:45:29.880 I would note just knowing that area one is between Sherman and Locust. 01:45:29.880 --> 01:45:36.360 That's a low to moderate income neighborhood. 01:45:36.360 --> 01:45:44.440 Three is pretty much north of University, west of Carroll, south of University, west 01:45:44.440 --> 01:45:45.440 of Carroll. 01:45:45.440 --> 01:45:46.440 Right. 01:45:46.440 --> 01:45:47.440 That's Hagen Hill Grounds. 01:45:47.440 --> 01:45:48.440 Right. 01:45:48.440 --> 01:45:53.320 And then four is southeast end and downtown end. 01:45:53.320 --> 01:46:05.160 Basically, east of Carroll and all the way over to just not Woodrow, but just east of 01:46:05.160 --> 01:46:06.160 Woodrow. 01:46:06.160 --> 01:46:07.160 West of Woodrow. 01:46:07.160 --> 01:46:19.200 I was going to ask, can you make a list of the streets that are in this recommended 01:46:19.200 --> 01:46:20.200 option? 01:46:20.200 --> 01:46:25.200 I think that's what I would need to see because I know there was some streets in red on another 01:46:25.200 --> 01:46:29.640 map that should be in that less than 20 and I just want to make sure they're still in 01:46:29.640 --> 01:46:30.640 that. 01:46:30.640 --> 01:46:31.640 Sure. 01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:32.640 That would help I think. 01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:33.640 We can do that. 01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:34.640 Or mapping. 01:46:34.640 --> 01:46:35.640 A map. 01:46:35.640 --> 01:46:36.640 I'm good with a list. 01:46:36.640 --> 01:46:39.200 Cause I know where most of the streets are. 01:46:39.200 --> 01:46:40.200 We can provide both. 01:46:40.200 --> 01:46:41.200 It's not that hard. 01:46:41.200 --> 01:46:42.200 We can do that. 01:46:42.200 --> 01:46:44.880 Or a really big map with the names of the streets on it. 01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:45.880 Yeah. 01:46:45.880 --> 01:46:46.880 We'll do our best. 01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:50.480 That might be a really big map, as many streets as we're talking about. 01:46:50.480 --> 01:46:51.480 Okay. 01:46:51.480 --> 01:46:52.480 Excuse me. 01:46:52.480 --> 01:46:53.480 What's that? 01:46:53.480 --> 01:46:59.960 If we're going to do the streets, sidewalk sliding? 01:46:59.960 --> 01:47:04.720 These are typically not included in this program. 01:47:04.720 --> 01:47:08.580 This money is for rebuilding the existing pavement. 01:47:08.580 --> 01:47:12.800 Where we would normally get into would be old curb and gutter because we still got to 01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:17.840 drain it and you don't want gaps or fractures in the curb and gutter to be the place where 01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:21.640 the new road starts to fail because the water's worked its way in and now we've got the freeze 01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:22.640 thaw cycle. 01:47:22.640 --> 01:47:28.040 There's a variety of reasons but this is really just rebuilding what's there so that it can 01:47:28.040 --> 01:47:29.040 have a much longer lifespan. 01:47:29.040 --> 01:47:30.040 My son's an engineer. 01:47:30.040 --> 01:47:31.040 I am so in this. 01:47:31.040 --> 01:47:38.480 So could we have, and this can be completely separate for another conversation perhaps, 01:47:38.480 --> 01:47:43.600 but would it be possible to look at what a complete package would look like? 01:47:43.600 --> 01:47:47.560 We could do, sure, we can do that. 01:47:47.560 --> 01:47:53.920 We do have a separate program for that, there's a sidewalk program that got off to a slow 01:47:53.920 --> 01:47:59.280 start in the 2014 bond program and we're proposing, and we're going to get into that next, we're 01:47:59.280 --> 01:48:04.320 proposing to get into a much more ambitious sidewalk program and do similar to what we 01:48:04.320 --> 01:48:12.240 did with the streets where we leverage state and federal dollars to make it go further. 01:48:12.240 --> 01:48:13.240 And lighting as well. 01:48:13.240 --> 01:48:14.240 Yes. 01:48:14.240 --> 01:48:15.240 Thank you. 01:48:15.240 --> 01:48:16.240 I just have a broad question. 01:48:16.240 --> 01:48:20.960 So as far as our very poor streets are poor, I know we've been accelerating and improving 01:48:20.960 --> 01:48:21.960 those. 01:48:21.960 --> 01:48:26.160 Do you all have any historical data on, you know, in previous years, what percentage were 01:48:26.160 --> 01:48:31.160 very poor, poor, and kind of how we've been improving the gap, hopefully? 01:48:31.160 --> 01:48:32.160 We can do that. 01:48:32.160 --> 01:48:33.160 Okay. 01:48:33.160 --> 01:48:35.400 Or if there's somewhere I can look, I'm happy to look. 01:48:35.400 --> 01:48:39.680 So part of the struggle that we've been working through is we have a mountain of data, literally 01:48:39.680 --> 01:48:41.300 a mountain of data. 01:48:41.300 --> 01:48:45.640 Some of it is hard copies of paper that hasn't been digitized and we still have to go through 01:48:45.640 --> 01:48:47.560 that to give exact results. 01:48:47.560 --> 01:48:52.880 Some of it we do have data that's digital back to about 30 years, including our GIS, 01:48:52.880 --> 01:48:55.100 where we can get a better semblance of that. 01:48:55.100 --> 01:48:59.880 The problem with that data is while it gives us some things, certain other details it doesn't 01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:00.880 have. 01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:02.880 Sometimes it has dates, sometimes it doesn't. 01:49:02.880 --> 01:49:07.800 We can look into that, but it's definitely a very big effort. 01:49:07.800 --> 01:49:08.800 Okay. 01:49:08.800 --> 01:49:09.800 It's eight o'clock. 01:49:09.800 --> 01:49:10.800 How are we, how's everyone feeling? 01:49:10.800 --> 01:49:11.800 You want to go? 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:12.800 Can I ask one more question? 01:49:12.800 --> 01:49:13.800 Sure. 01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:14.800 Everybody's like, gosh. 01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:22.840 Can I get something to show me the last time the streets in Southeast Denton were repaired? 01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:23.840 I can look for it. 01:49:23.840 --> 01:49:25.880 I don't know if we have records for that. 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:26.880 Okay. 01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:30.640 Some of those, like you talked about, they were redone in the 60s and the 70s. 01:49:30.640 --> 01:49:31.680 They're going to be hard copies. 01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:33.560 I might have those. 01:49:33.560 --> 01:49:35.280 I would just have to look into that. 01:49:35.280 --> 01:49:36.840 I don't know. 01:49:36.840 --> 01:49:37.840 Okay. 01:49:37.840 --> 01:49:39.440 Thank you. 01:49:39.440 --> 01:49:40.440 Right. 01:49:40.440 --> 01:49:41.800 Good point. 01:49:41.800 --> 01:49:56.600 So one of the things we haven't gotten to yet, but it's part of this discussion. 01:49:56.600 --> 01:50:00.920 So you see the first time we put 35 million out there for streets, and now we're at 70. 01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:01.920 Where is that coming from? 01:50:01.920 --> 01:50:06.720 So Ryan Road, some of the other roads in this discussion, that is what this dialogue is 01:50:06.720 --> 01:50:12.000 about is are there things that trade off to make the streets portion a bigger portion 01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:15.840 of this package than was originally set out? 01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:19.880 So that's part of this discussion is for us to determine how big does this package get? 01:50:19.880 --> 01:50:23.760 Do you want to let a Ryan or a Robinson go? 01:50:23.760 --> 01:50:26.400 Is that something you want to do? 01:50:26.400 --> 01:50:34.740 We don't want to, but that's part of the dialogue here is where does this go? 01:50:34.740 --> 01:50:36.760 So Todd, how many more packages? 01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:40.760 We're about two-thirds away through your presentation. 01:50:40.760 --> 01:50:45.840 We have one more really fun one that probably take a good 30 minutes to get through, and 01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:47.880 then the others are pretty quick. 01:50:47.880 --> 01:50:53.600 Just one option, and we'll staff definitely stay here when we go through the entire presentation 01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:54.600 tonight. 01:50:54.600 --> 01:51:00.320 Next week the plan is to focus on open space and public art and whatever else we have left 01:51:00.320 --> 01:51:01.320 over. 01:51:01.320 --> 01:51:05.600 I didn't mention finance, but as we talk about the finance task force later that may come 01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:10.920 into that sort of maybe room next week if we want to push sidewalk and street lighting 01:51:10.920 --> 01:51:16.600 or just lighting next week, so that's definitely up to you all, but we could push sidewalks 01:51:16.600 --> 01:51:19.600 to next week. 01:51:19.600 --> 01:51:20.600 Okay. 01:51:20.600 --> 01:51:26.440 Is that acceptable to everyone or do you want to go ahead and dive into the sidewalks? 01:51:26.440 --> 01:51:37.080 I also want everyone to have to be fully conscious at the end of the presentation. 01:51:37.080 --> 01:51:46.120 So we do have to talk a little bit about finance task force, why don't we pause on sidewalks 01:51:46.120 --> 01:51:54.760 and roll that into next week, and then we'll talk, cover briefly the finance task force 01:51:54.760 --> 01:51:57.680 and then adjourn, does that sound reasonable? 01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:02.240 Do you want to get through the remainder of the projects on here, excluding sidewalks 01:52:02.240 --> 01:52:17.120 and street lights, or do you want to just stop here and pick up? 01:52:17.120 --> 01:52:20.160 I don't think it'll take that long, but again, that's up to you. 01:52:20.160 --> 01:52:22.160 Is that as long as five minutes or 20 minutes? 01:52:22.160 --> 01:52:24.960 I can go as fast as you want to go. 01:52:24.960 --> 01:52:29.520 So it's really Robes Robinson Road, Ryan Road, and Jim Crystal? 01:52:29.520 --> 01:52:30.520 Yes. 01:52:30.520 --> 01:52:36.920 All right, let's do, let's go, Ryan, what's next after the sidewalks, Robinson? 01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:39.760 So Robinson would be the next. 01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:42.160 Okay. 01:52:42.160 --> 01:52:46.560 So Robinson Road, there is a missing piece, so the state came in and did 2499, they put 01:52:46.560 --> 01:52:52.040 in that nice six-lane facility that provides a nice connection south and north. 01:52:52.040 --> 01:52:58.440 They also put in four lanes from just west of 2499 and tied back into the city of Corinth 01:52:58.440 --> 01:52:59.440 on the other side. 01:52:59.440 --> 01:53:06.480 And we have this segment here in the middle, going over to 2181, that's two lanes. 01:53:06.480 --> 01:53:10.440 So what we're proposing here is to go ahead and complete the two lanes that are missing. 01:53:10.440 --> 01:53:13.160 The existing two lanes are fine, they're where they're supposed to be. 01:53:13.160 --> 01:53:17.120 We just need to go forward and put the other two lanes in and that puts that connection 01:53:17.120 --> 01:53:21.040 there between 2181 and 2499. 01:53:21.040 --> 01:53:23.400 That's really all this project is. 01:53:23.400 --> 01:53:24.400 Okay. 01:53:24.400 --> 01:53:25.400 All right. 01:53:25.400 --> 01:53:26.400 Any questions? 01:53:26.400 --> 01:53:31.960 I need to make it the same design as the other two, with the median in the middle so we go 01:53:31.960 --> 01:53:32.960 to six. 01:53:32.960 --> 01:53:37.400 It would be an exact mirror of what you see out there, we'll just progress on that. 01:53:37.400 --> 01:53:39.600 Any questions or comments on this? 01:53:39.600 --> 01:53:40.600 Okay. 01:53:40.600 --> 01:53:41.600 All right. 01:53:41.600 --> 01:53:44.960 So Ryan Road, this is the one we talked about earlier. 01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:50.440 What you saw, this slide here is what was in your backup, the presentation you saw on 01:53:50.440 --> 01:53:55.600 Monday and we did just, I mean, we had the results of this come in Monday and we dove 01:53:55.600 --> 01:53:57.080 into it Tuesday and Wednesday. 01:53:57.080 --> 01:54:03.960 So now we're coming back to where's there some flexibility in this proposed program. 01:54:03.960 --> 01:54:11.120 When Hickory Creek is built out, the demands on Ryan are minimized, long term. 01:54:11.120 --> 01:54:14.080 That's pushing us out into the 2045 timeframe. 01:54:14.080 --> 01:54:24.000 So at most, what we see as a staff is a three lane section with trails and bike side paths. 01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:29.520 I mean, just a very connectable, walkable scenario that ties you into an existing trail 01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:34.640 corridor and then a three lane roadway in between both intersections and doing major 01:54:34.640 --> 01:54:40.360 improvements at only the two major intersections at 2181 and 1830. 01:54:40.360 --> 01:54:41.760 So it's a much smaller project. 01:54:41.760 --> 01:54:43.320 Now there's a range down there. 01:54:43.320 --> 01:54:46.440 You see the range from 10 million to 25 million. 01:54:46.440 --> 01:54:50.360 That really depends where you want to go and how much flexibility you want to build into 01:54:50.360 --> 01:54:52.920 the overall bond program for other items. 01:54:52.920 --> 01:54:55.980 So you could do a two lane roadway. 01:54:55.980 --> 01:54:59.600 The reason we're recommending a three lane is you do have more residential neighborhoods 01:54:59.600 --> 01:55:03.720 coming into that area and not all of their entrances line up. 01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:06.240 That's a history of allowing them to be disjointed. 01:55:06.240 --> 01:55:11.660 So one of the easiest ways to solve that is you leave the center lane open for people to 01:55:11.660 --> 01:55:17.600 turn left and they get them off the main lane so people can still continue to drive. 01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:21.280 If we were to stay with a two lane roadway, at some point they'll get congested enough 01:55:21.280 --> 01:55:24.280 that it starts backing up traffic a little bit. 01:55:24.280 --> 01:55:26.760 So we're recommending the three lane. 01:55:26.760 --> 01:55:29.360 That's the $25 million option. 01:55:29.360 --> 01:55:30.680 There is some leveraging going on. 01:55:30.680 --> 01:55:33.360 That's why you see the city cost being 19 million. 01:55:33.360 --> 01:55:39.560 The state will typically invest within 600 feet of any intersection. 01:55:39.560 --> 01:55:40.560 They'll put money into it. 01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:42.020 They're going to be doing $18.30. 01:55:42.020 --> 01:55:44.080 They are doing $21.81. 01:55:44.080 --> 01:55:48.920 And then we just have the 600 feet on both sides that are city streets that we'd be working 01:55:48.920 --> 01:55:50.520 with them to fund. 01:55:50.520 --> 01:55:51.920 That's an endeavor we're working on. 01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:57.200 It's about a $5 million, $5 to $6 million gap for those intersections. 01:55:57.200 --> 01:55:59.880 There's also some utility work that's another funding source. 01:55:59.880 --> 01:56:01.880 There's a water line that runs through there. 01:56:01.880 --> 01:56:04.640 That would be another place that also makes up part of that $6 million delta. 01:56:04.640 --> 01:56:10.560 That's where we get the difference that we could then move this money over to. 01:56:10.560 --> 01:56:14.720 The $10 million option would be we just do the intersection improvements at both ends 01:56:14.720 --> 01:56:16.520 and we just leave a two lane roadway. 01:56:16.520 --> 01:56:20.840 We would just come in and overtop the existing roadway to give it a longer life. 01:56:20.840 --> 01:56:26.600 But that doesn't give you the walking space. 01:56:26.600 --> 01:56:31.160 For $10 million it wouldn't because it would really be focused on the roadway utility improvements 01:56:31.160 --> 01:56:32.160 in the intersections. 01:56:32.160 --> 01:56:41.040 So the $25 million resolves the drainage issues. 01:56:41.040 --> 01:56:45.580 It adds curb and gutter so I can put the sidewalks and the side paths all out there. 01:56:45.580 --> 01:56:49.840 If I go with the $10 million option I'm leaving the bar ditches that are there for the majority 01:56:49.840 --> 01:56:54.480 of that stretch because the drainage is one of the cost differences here that really drive 01:56:54.480 --> 01:56:55.480 it up. 01:56:55.480 --> 01:56:59.280 It makes it more expensive when I got to start handling the drainage. 01:56:59.280 --> 01:57:00.720 So that's why you see this range here. 01:57:00.720 --> 01:57:02.640 The $10 million would be a very bare bones. 01:57:02.640 --> 01:57:09.640 We'll do the intersections and then we'll redo the roadway and then we'll move on. 01:57:09.640 --> 01:57:14.400 The $25 million would do some improvements to the entire length of the roadway as well 01:57:14.400 --> 01:57:18.400 as some aesthetic and recreational improvements. 01:57:18.400 --> 01:57:21.400 Other things, quality of life improvements is really where we would be going. 01:57:21.400 --> 01:57:31.600 It would make it a lot safer for the schools and the neighborhoods at the $25 million level. 01:57:31.600 --> 01:57:35.840 The difference being when we were originally pricing this project we were seeing it as 01:57:35.840 --> 01:57:42.200 being around a $44 million cost to the city under the four lane divided roadway. 01:57:42.200 --> 01:57:47.320 So if you go with the more expensive option you're taking about $20 million out of that 01:57:47.320 --> 01:57:51.720 project and it's available now to go somewhere else like streets. 01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:56.660 If you were to go to the $10 million which is still going to service the area it'll still 01:57:56.660 --> 01:57:59.960 bring the level of service up to an A long term. 01:57:59.960 --> 01:58:04.360 Now you've got that much more room you could put towards streets. 01:58:04.360 --> 01:58:20.480 They're just things to consider as we go forward. 01:58:20.480 --> 01:58:26.040 That was in a previous study that looked at the overall movement of traffic. 01:58:26.040 --> 01:58:31.400 What that study also did is it looked at Hickory Creek going up and stopping at 1830 and you 01:58:31.400 --> 01:58:36.600 having to get on 1830 and go south like you do today to Country Club Road and Crawford. 01:58:36.600 --> 01:58:43.740 That was the major road to get you to 35W so it still pushed traffic back up to Ryan. 01:58:43.740 --> 01:58:48.320 If we don't connect Ryan to Vintage which has a lot of challenges, one being that you'd 01:58:48.320 --> 01:58:54.360 have two rail crossings at an intersection which makes it really hard to deal with, you'd 01:58:54.360 --> 01:58:58.600 have that scenario but now you almost guarantee it's got to be a four lane divided because 01:58:58.600 --> 01:59:03.560 Vintage then ties in on the other end and you really don't need a six lane facility 01:59:03.560 --> 01:59:04.560 further south. 01:59:04.560 --> 01:59:09.600 So you've got to trade off here because the system is trying to equalize itself out. 01:59:09.600 --> 01:59:13.520 The prime draw is going to be the homes to the south are trying to get east and west 01:59:13.520 --> 01:59:18.680 and that's why when you take Hickory Creek to a six lane roadway long term in the 2045 01:59:18.680 --> 01:59:24.720 time frame and beyond you still don't need a big Ryan Road and you don't even need to 01:59:24.720 --> 01:59:25.720 connect it. 01:59:25.720 --> 01:59:29.000 It's a huge expense trying to bridge over the floodplain, over the railroads, doing 01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:32.720 a whole slew of things to make that connection. 01:59:32.720 --> 01:59:36.200 You could do it one time with Hickory Creek and you resolve the vast majority of the mobility 01:59:36.200 --> 01:59:37.200 issues in the area. 01:59:37.200 --> 01:59:43.840 What would be the timing on those two if we did them both together in a patch? 01:59:43.840 --> 01:59:44.840 Hickory Creek and Ryan? 01:59:44.840 --> 01:59:45.840 Would we want to? 01:59:45.840 --> 01:59:52.400 If we did, I'm just curious. 01:59:52.400 --> 01:59:56.760 The advantage of a Hickory Creek is so much of the proposed Hickory Creek is offline or 01:59:56.760 --> 01:59:58.580 where the current road is. 01:59:58.580 --> 02:00:03.120 So Hickory Creek now goes up and we're going to go straight. 02:00:03.120 --> 02:00:06.840 So we could be building the vast majority of Hickory Creek Road while traffic is still 02:00:06.840 --> 02:00:09.600 doing what they're doing today. 02:00:09.600 --> 02:00:13.640 And then once you turn some of those lanes over to traffic, then you can take old Hickory 02:00:13.640 --> 02:00:18.720 Creek Road off line and you move traffic on there. 02:00:18.720 --> 02:00:21.920 Part of our concept is also that you'd have two bridges for that six lane. 02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:25.840 So we'd build one bridge and I can put all the traffic there and then I can be working 02:00:25.840 --> 02:00:26.840 the other bridge. 02:00:26.840 --> 02:00:29.360 So there's a lot more flexibility because there's nothing out there. 02:00:29.360 --> 02:00:35.640 Ryan, we could do at the same time and when it's less expensive to do the roadway, then 02:00:35.640 --> 02:00:40.720 there's more flexibility in how we spend the bond funds to be able to get it done faster. 02:00:40.720 --> 02:00:46.160 I'm not regulated on when those dollars become available and David can talk more about this 02:00:46.160 --> 02:00:47.160 than I can. 02:00:47.160 --> 02:00:57.920 But of course one advantage of one of my pet projects, tying advantage to Ryan as you mentioned, 02:00:57.920 --> 02:01:01.560 is that the fire station is already there and we're going to have a police substation 02:01:01.560 --> 02:01:06.160 there and it would be a straight shot over to Ryan to serve that neighborhood because 02:01:06.160 --> 02:01:14.280 the fire station that is now off Teasley spends an awful lot of time going out to 35 and serving 02:01:14.280 --> 02:01:19.280 the retirement communities that are on Wind River. 02:01:19.280 --> 02:01:27.680 There's a continual need for emergency services provided throughout the community, yes ma'am. 02:01:27.680 --> 02:01:28.680 Okay. 02:01:28.680 --> 02:01:32.880 Any other questions or comments on this? 02:01:32.880 --> 02:01:35.000 Okay. 02:01:35.000 --> 02:01:41.280 Jim Crystal Road, this is that section three or sector three of the development zone is 02:01:41.280 --> 02:01:47.400 where all the infrastructure is going as far as industrial development, large scale commercial 02:01:47.400 --> 02:01:50.280 distribution centers. 02:01:50.280 --> 02:01:53.840 Where we're trying to go with this project is ask for the design dollars to get this 02:01:53.840 --> 02:01:59.820 in place so that when these large developments come in that US cold storage or whoever else 02:01:59.820 --> 02:02:02.960 might come in after them, the designs are incomplete. 02:02:02.960 --> 02:02:06.640 They just have to build their piece of the road, not their piece of the road and design 02:02:06.640 --> 02:02:07.640 it. 02:02:07.640 --> 02:02:12.340 The disadvantage when they do both things is now whoever's in first starts dictating 02:02:12.340 --> 02:02:14.920 where the road's going to go. 02:02:14.920 --> 02:02:19.800 Whereas if we design it now, we set where the road's going to be and then we enter 02:02:19.800 --> 02:02:21.920 into more of these public private partnerships. 02:02:21.920 --> 02:02:29.280 That piece, there's a value to that that developer, they're absolutely cognizant of. 02:02:29.280 --> 02:02:34.080 So there's a more willingness to jump into that we'll all build it because I'm not going 02:02:34.080 --> 02:02:40.040 to put $300, $400, $500,000 into designing my piece of the road. 02:02:40.040 --> 02:02:41.540 That part's done. 02:02:41.540 --> 02:02:45.720 So that's where this money is being leveraged is development as it comes in and continues 02:02:45.720 --> 02:02:48.860 to come in, brings impact fees into the area. 02:02:48.860 --> 02:02:52.680 Other partnerships that do exist out there that have an interest here would allow us 02:02:52.680 --> 02:02:55.480 to immediately go to construction as quickly as possible. 02:02:55.480 --> 02:02:58.760 So this would relieve pressure off of Airport Road? 02:02:58.760 --> 02:03:01.280 Airport Road, especially when it goes into construction because that will be going into 02:03:01.280 --> 02:03:04.200 construction in the next three to four years? 02:03:04.200 --> 02:03:05.200 When was that? 02:03:05.200 --> 02:03:06.200 Pre-Temps 9? 02:03:06.200 --> 02:03:07.200 He's off his own road. 02:03:07.200 --> 02:03:08.200 So Airport Road is starting and there's schematic things so it does not have a date. 02:03:08.200 --> 02:03:09.200 They're designing it and laying the schematic so they can move forward with right-of-way 02:03:09.200 --> 02:03:10.200 and from this point. 02:03:10.200 --> 02:03:11.200 And this is, and that's a textile project? 02:03:11.200 --> 02:03:12.200 That is a textile project. 02:03:12.200 --> 02:03:13.200 When it's done though, it will be a city street. 02:03:13.200 --> 02:03:14.200 So it's going to be a city street. 02:03:14.200 --> 02:03:15.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:15.200 --> 02:03:16.200 That's going to be a city street. 02:03:16.200 --> 02:03:17.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:17.200 --> 02:03:18.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:18.200 --> 02:03:19.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:19.200 --> 02:03:20.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:20.200 --> 02:03:21.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:21.200 --> 02:03:22.200 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:22.200 --> 02:03:35.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:35.880 --> 02:03:36.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:36.880 --> 02:03:37.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:37.880 --> 02:03:38.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:38.880 --> 02:03:39.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:39.880 --> 02:03:40.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:41.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:41.880 --> 02:03:42.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:42.880 --> 02:03:43.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:43.880 --> 02:03:44.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:44.880 --> 02:03:45.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:45.880 --> 02:03:46.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:46.880 --> 02:03:47.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:47.880 --> 02:03:48.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:48.880 --> 02:03:49.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:49.880 --> 02:03:50.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:50.880 --> 02:03:51.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:51.880 --> 02:03:52.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:52.880 --> 02:03:53.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:53.880 --> 02:03:54.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:54.880 --> 02:03:55.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:55.880 --> 02:03:56.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:56.880 --> 02:03:57.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:57.880 --> 02:03:58.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:58.880 --> 02:03:59.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:03:59.880 --> 02:04:00.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:01.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:01.880 --> 02:04:02.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:02.880 --> 02:04:03.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:03.880 --> 02:04:04.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:04.880 --> 02:04:05.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:06.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:06.880 --> 02:04:07.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:07.880 --> 02:04:08.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:08.880 --> 02:04:09.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:09.880 --> 02:04:10.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:10.880 --> 02:04:11.880 It's going to be a city street. 02:04:22.880 --> 02:04:23.880 Okay. 02:04:23.880 --> 02:04:31.080 Any other questions on Jim Kristol? 02:04:31.080 --> 02:04:33.120 And then the last, this is purely an update. 02:04:33.120 --> 02:04:36.720 So Sherman, it was originally on our discussion with Council. 02:04:36.720 --> 02:04:39.320 It's been in the books for a long time. 02:04:39.320 --> 02:04:43.080 The Outer Loop has a lot of attention by the Council of Governments. 02:04:43.080 --> 02:04:47.920 It's being a priority focus, especially in this segment of the North Texas area. 02:04:47.920 --> 02:04:51.720 They would like to get from 35 all the way over to McKinney. 02:04:51.720 --> 02:04:53.800 Just to clarify, the Outer Loop is not Loop 288. 02:04:53.800 --> 02:04:54.800 It is not Loop 288. 02:04:54.800 --> 02:04:55.800 It's the other loop. 02:04:55.800 --> 02:04:56.800 Right. 02:04:56.800 --> 02:04:57.800 It is. 02:04:57.800 --> 02:04:59.220 It's the future loop that's not looped yet. 02:04:59.220 --> 02:05:04.520 It's about a 235-mile loop around the entire Metroplex area. 02:05:04.520 --> 02:05:09.080 So it's designed to get people quickly around the entire Metroplex and give an alternative 02:05:09.080 --> 02:05:14.760 route, much like you see in Austin where they've got multiple avenues to get all the way around. 02:05:14.760 --> 02:05:18.520 Depends on how badly you want to get there. 02:05:18.520 --> 02:05:22.720 But what we do anticipate is that that Outer Loop, as you're seeing a lot of traffic come 02:05:22.720 --> 02:05:26.920 in these farm-to-market roads from Prosper and from other communities to the North Valley 02:05:26.920 --> 02:05:33.420 View, they're taking other roadways to get into downtown Denton. 02:05:33.420 --> 02:05:37.920 So when we started talking this through with the state and with the Council of Governments, 02:05:37.920 --> 02:05:42.480 does a four-lane or a six-lane roadway really make sense, seeing as how we're seeing a ton 02:05:42.480 --> 02:05:46.680 of residential neighborhoods coming and there's a lot of commuter traffic coming? 02:05:46.680 --> 02:05:51.200 What this really looks like is a spur between the Outer Loop and Loop 288. 02:05:51.200 --> 02:05:54.400 So we've talked to both parties. 02:05:54.400 --> 02:05:56.480 Council of Governments said that sounds like a great idea. 02:05:56.480 --> 02:06:02.020 So they're really pushing TextDOT to take on that project as their own project. 02:06:02.020 --> 02:06:06.360 And in the long run, what it would be would be a highway, main lanes with frontage roads 02:06:06.360 --> 02:06:08.040 that connect those two loops. 02:06:08.040 --> 02:06:14.320 Then once you get inside Loop 288, it'd be back to a primary arterial roadway. 02:06:14.320 --> 02:06:17.760 So this is free to us? 02:06:17.760 --> 02:06:18.760 Yes. 02:06:18.760 --> 02:06:19.760 Okay. 02:06:19.760 --> 02:06:21.520 Is that an upbringing? 02:06:21.520 --> 02:06:22.520 It is. 02:06:22.520 --> 02:06:27.040 I mean, we're doing some minor improvements right now. 02:06:27.040 --> 02:06:30.240 There's no such thing as free. 02:06:30.240 --> 02:06:32.040 You'll live with the construction when they do it, right? 02:06:32.040 --> 02:06:33.040 Overall, yeah. 02:06:33.040 --> 02:06:34.040 We just don't have to buy for it. 02:06:34.040 --> 02:06:35.040 People at Hartley Field are going to want to buy for it. 02:06:35.040 --> 02:06:36.040 Question? 02:06:36.040 --> 02:06:37.040 Yes, ma'am. 02:06:37.040 --> 02:06:43.200 Is there a schematic that shows this artery? 02:06:43.200 --> 02:06:45.400 There is, exists in a variety of places. 02:06:45.400 --> 02:06:47.800 It does show up on our mobility plan. 02:06:47.800 --> 02:06:49.820 It's outlined out there. 02:06:49.820 --> 02:06:53.640 It's a little hard to see because it's a weird color mixed in with some other things. 02:06:53.640 --> 02:06:54.640 But it is on there. 02:06:54.640 --> 02:06:55.640 Yes. 02:06:55.640 --> 02:07:01.320 I know most of the roads that are owned by TextDOT, this one I don't remember. 02:07:01.320 --> 02:07:05.320 Once this is all built, who will be maintaining it, TextDOT or us? 02:07:05.320 --> 02:07:08.120 So that's part of the discussion we're having with TextDOT right now. 02:07:08.120 --> 02:07:12.960 When it goes from Loop 288 to the outer loop, it will remain TextDOTs. 02:07:12.960 --> 02:07:17.780 When it comes inside the loop and improvements are completed along that Sherman Drive all 02:07:17.780 --> 02:07:27.380 the way into downtown, the anticipation is it will be turned over to the city. 02:07:27.380 --> 02:07:29.360 Those were the last of the projects except sidewalks. 02:07:29.360 --> 02:07:30.360 Okay. 02:07:30.360 --> 02:07:31.360 And streetlights. 02:07:31.360 --> 02:07:32.360 Yes. 02:07:32.360 --> 02:07:34.460 We'll do next. 02:07:34.460 --> 02:07:37.760 So we'll defer sidewalks and streetlights till next week? 02:07:37.760 --> 02:07:39.320 Yes, sir. 02:07:39.320 --> 02:07:50.320 I'd like to move on to agenda item C. So we all approved forming a finance task force 02:07:50.320 --> 02:07:56.800 to look at some key questions, some of which were in the charter from the council. 02:07:56.800 --> 02:08:05.240 We met last week and discussed and basically outlined what we see is the questions we're 02:08:05.240 --> 02:08:10.160 going to pursue and we're going to get with David and the staff and try to work through 02:08:10.160 --> 02:08:12.620 these over the next two to three weeks. 02:08:12.620 --> 02:08:21.000 So one key assumption that we concluded upon is that there's a 4% cost growth, which is 02:08:21.000 --> 02:08:26.120 what we're using, correct me if I'm wrong, David, in the current projections, correct? 02:08:26.120 --> 02:08:27.120 Assess value. 02:08:27.120 --> 02:08:32.040 Yes, assess value, growth and assess value. 02:08:32.040 --> 02:08:39.680 And that may appear conservative compared to approximately a 10% growth in appraised 02:08:39.680 --> 02:08:42.000 value over the last few years. 02:08:42.000 --> 02:08:46.760 So some of the questions that we're going to work through are first, and this is what 02:08:46.760 --> 02:08:52.360 the council asked us to do, is look at what does it take to stay at the effective tax 02:08:52.360 --> 02:08:53.360 rate? 02:08:53.360 --> 02:08:57.200 In other words, what would be included or not included if we stayed at just the effective 02:08:57.200 --> 02:08:58.800 tax rate? 02:08:58.800 --> 02:09:06.640 And city managers had some comments on that or some legislative changes that will certainly 02:09:06.640 --> 02:09:07.640 impact that. 02:09:07.640 --> 02:09:13.640 Then other questions that we developed are what are the growth assumptions that avoid 02:09:13.640 --> 02:09:16.680 a tax rate increase? 02:09:16.680 --> 02:09:19.240 What will be the future tax base? 02:09:19.240 --> 02:09:26.600 So when you start seeing all these green areas, what should we expect and not expect in a 02:09:26.600 --> 02:09:30.240 reasonable time frame, say four to five years? 02:09:30.240 --> 02:09:37.000 And then the next is what can we achieve without increasing citizens' tax rates? 02:09:37.000 --> 02:09:41.960 And then lastly, how much of a tax rate increase would we be willing to propose? 02:09:41.960 --> 02:09:47.720 So we as a formal body collectively. 02:09:47.720 --> 02:09:49.360 So those are the questions that we're going to work through. 02:09:49.360 --> 02:09:55.360 We're going to bring back recommendations to this group for consideration. 02:09:55.360 --> 02:10:03.240 And then so that when we come hopefully bringing this all together, where we have a list of 02:10:03.240 --> 02:10:09.200 projects and what we think the funding level should be and can bring that complete package 02:10:09.200 --> 02:10:11.720 to the city council. 02:10:11.720 --> 02:10:14.160 Any questions or comments on that? 02:10:14.160 --> 02:10:18.520 Could we have a list of the people who are on that subcommittee in case those of us who 02:10:18.520 --> 02:10:24.680 don't want to be on the subcommittee, if we have something we want to ask or contribute. 02:10:24.680 --> 02:10:29.360 I'll just mention it right now, but I'll have to send a list of data so he can send that 02:10:29.360 --> 02:10:30.360 out. 02:10:30.360 --> 02:10:32.880 John, can you raise your hand, John? 02:10:32.880 --> 02:10:45.480 And then Janet, Susan, Eric, myself, Tim Crouch, and Randy Robinson, but we'll send that out 02:10:45.480 --> 02:10:47.280 through David if that's all right. 02:10:47.280 --> 02:10:48.280 Sure. 02:10:48.280 --> 02:10:52.680 And our intent is for these meetings to be open meetings, and our goal would be to have 02:10:52.680 --> 02:10:56.360 them here so that they're recorded, and we're as transparent as possible with those meetings 02:10:56.360 --> 02:10:57.360 as they go forward. 02:10:57.360 --> 02:11:01.980 So there'll be public meetings and open just like these. 02:11:01.980 --> 02:11:07.360 As far as the content, as we look at those scenarios with the growth, as we have those 02:11:07.360 --> 02:11:13.280 meetings, we can get to a point where we see what different scenarios do to the model and 02:11:13.280 --> 02:11:18.840 talk through why we have the projections we do and everything goes along with that. 02:11:18.840 --> 02:11:24.760 Have you all determined when you all will meet? 02:11:24.760 --> 02:11:34.160 Right now we've tentatively planned for Thursday, June 27th at 3, but that's new news to David, 02:11:34.160 --> 02:11:35.160 so he ... 02:11:35.160 --> 02:11:37.160 You don't have anything else to do? 02:11:37.160 --> 02:11:40.160 That's what we're shooting for. 02:11:40.160 --> 02:11:41.160 Same day-ish? 02:11:41.160 --> 02:11:42.160 Right. 02:11:42.160 --> 02:11:50.720 So that's all, that's something I was going to talk to him after this meeting, so we'll 02:11:50.720 --> 02:11:51.720 get that out to you. 02:11:51.720 --> 02:11:52.720 Sorry. 02:11:52.720 --> 02:12:00.480 All right, any other questions, comments for the good of the group? 02:12:00.480 --> 02:12:05.080 I just would like to thank you all, the presentation was very helpful. 02:12:05.080 --> 02:12:08.080 I really enjoyed the graphs. 02:12:08.080 --> 02:12:16.440 You know, I think it's good to see these different options, right, to see what the priorities 02:12:16.440 --> 02:12:20.340 are and that sort of thing. 02:12:20.340 --> 02:12:25.960 One thing I'll just mention, I don't have the details to know what the scope would be, 02:12:25.960 --> 02:12:32.120 but I know over the past decade, maybe Susie can chime in, the mobility plan and the bike 02:12:32.120 --> 02:12:37.200 plan have kind of started to come together, and my impression is that they've taken advantage 02:12:37.200 --> 02:12:42.760 of existing projects and some wider streets here or there that they could do something 02:12:42.760 --> 02:12:49.000 with with some paint, right, and so I guess what I would like to see is a proposal for 02:12:49.000 --> 02:12:55.080 maybe a very small portion of the streets program could be allowed to be used for streets 02:12:55.080 --> 02:13:03.700 that are maybe in between the 20 and 45 range, if it directly aids making those missing connections 02:13:03.700 --> 02:13:10.580 in the mobility plan for multimodal access? 02:13:10.580 --> 02:13:12.880 Could it be there's always to do? 02:13:12.880 --> 02:13:18.360 Sure, and really it's just a question of scope, of would a small investment there make a big 02:13:18.360 --> 02:13:19.360 difference or not? 02:13:19.360 --> 02:13:24.480 Well, the biggest thing I would throw out there would just be that the mobility plan 02:13:24.480 --> 02:13:29.880 as it stands is pretty questionable the way it was put together and really implemented. 02:13:29.880 --> 02:13:33.000 There were a lot of missing pieces in a variety of places. 02:13:33.000 --> 02:13:39.120 We currently have under contract a design professional to help us do a complete overall 02:13:39.120 --> 02:13:45.120 of the mobility plan where we would have a master thoroughfare plan, a bike plan, a pedestrian 02:13:45.120 --> 02:13:50.600 plan, and then combine that with the ADA transition plan so you have a complete mobility plan 02:13:50.600 --> 02:13:56.280 keeping in mind that I need to be context sensitive where I'm supposed to be, a complete 02:13:56.280 --> 02:14:02.760 streets methodology, and then that develops a much better and more comprehensive CIP. 02:14:02.760 --> 02:14:04.200 So could you do it now? 02:14:04.200 --> 02:14:08.880 I could, but I'd be doing a lot of band aid that I might undo later, whereas if I take 02:14:08.880 --> 02:14:13.980 a much more comprehensive approach and put something in for future planning so we do 02:14:13.980 --> 02:14:17.680 it right going forward, I think that would be a better option. 02:14:17.680 --> 02:14:19.080 And that's where we're proceeding now. 02:14:19.080 --> 02:14:22.760 We have that professional on board over the next six months to a year. 02:14:22.760 --> 02:14:27.240 You'll see multiple ways of being involved in that through some public meetings and other 02:14:27.240 --> 02:14:28.240 things. 02:14:28.240 --> 02:14:37.280 Now I know we may have gone over this, don't everybody look at me like, oh here she goes. 02:14:37.280 --> 02:14:44.040 But about the map again, I know I asked about getting the map to the distribution of the 02:14:44.040 --> 02:14:49.960 bond funding, felling street projects, can we get a map of that, or is it online as well? 02:14:49.960 --> 02:14:50.960 The streets that were-- 02:14:50.960 --> 02:14:53.300 That are felling like-- 02:14:53.300 --> 02:14:55.240 That one's an overwhelming amount of data. 02:14:55.240 --> 02:14:57.320 It would be hard to put that online. 02:14:57.320 --> 02:15:01.640 We can provide those maps to you, absolutely, but trying to put that on a web portal where 02:15:01.640 --> 02:15:04.160 somebody can get it, it is a lot of information. 02:15:04.160 --> 02:15:09.340 It's part of what makes it so challenging for us to be prepared to have this discussion 02:15:09.340 --> 02:15:12.880 is it's a lot of information all in one place. 02:15:12.880 --> 02:15:15.720 But we can provide what you would like to see, absolutely. 02:15:15.720 --> 02:15:17.720 Okay, could you please, thank you. 02:15:17.720 --> 02:15:18.720 David? 02:15:18.720 --> 02:15:20.680 I just want to make one note. 02:15:20.680 --> 02:15:26.760 We've gotten a lot of great questions in the meetings so far, and also via email from everyone. 02:15:26.760 --> 02:15:31.360 We were trying to address as many of those questions as possible during the presentations. 02:15:31.360 --> 02:15:34.520 After we get through next week, we would have then gone through kind of the detail of each 02:15:34.520 --> 02:15:37.280 of the presentations, a lot of the follow-up meetings. 02:15:37.280 --> 02:15:39.000 So we have a list of all those questions. 02:15:39.000 --> 02:15:40.240 We're working through them. 02:15:40.240 --> 02:15:45.080 So we'll either get those back to you during presentations, or we'll provide memos in future 02:15:45.080 --> 02:15:46.960 meetings where you can kind of see all that written out. 02:15:46.960 --> 02:15:50.960 So we are keeping track of those, and those will come back to you. 02:15:50.960 --> 02:15:56.920 I was just going to ask you, because I saw that you had emailed us, you know, what we 02:15:56.920 --> 02:15:59.640 said previously for May 30th. 02:15:59.640 --> 02:16:02.640 So that's going to be on a week. 02:16:02.640 --> 02:16:08.320 Every week you're going to let us know all the audio that's been taken, what questions 02:16:08.320 --> 02:16:09.320 we've asked. 02:16:09.320 --> 02:16:10.320 Sure. 02:16:10.320 --> 02:16:11.320 So I guess two answers. 02:16:11.320 --> 02:16:15.440 Yes, we'll have minutes that will be approved at each meeting. 02:16:15.440 --> 02:16:19.520 Just given our short turnaround time, to give the agendas posted on Monday and having these 02:16:19.520 --> 02:16:23.280 on Thursdays, a lot of times it'll be just kind of two meetings back. 02:16:23.280 --> 02:16:28.480 But we always have last meeting recorded, and in this room we have better capabilities 02:16:28.480 --> 02:16:29.480 with the recording. 02:16:29.480 --> 02:16:34.800 It's going to be available online very quickly, and the recording quality and sound will be 02:16:34.800 --> 02:16:35.800 much better. 02:16:35.800 --> 02:16:40.640 So obviously they'll be there to go back and view if you want to see in detail. 02:16:40.640 --> 02:16:45.000 And I guess to that point I would just ask, is everyone comfortable with the meeting in 02:16:45.000 --> 02:16:46.000 here? 02:16:46.000 --> 02:16:50.000 Yes, we have a short turnaround to make sure it works. 02:16:50.000 --> 02:16:51.000 Great. 02:16:51.000 --> 02:16:52.000 It's better. 02:16:52.000 --> 02:16:53.000 Yeah. 02:16:53.000 --> 02:16:54.000 Perfect. 02:16:54.000 --> 02:16:58.000 Because I'd like to see like a contribution of everybody included in the discussion on 02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:03.000 paper, if that makes sense. 02:17:03.000 --> 02:17:04.000 Sure. 02:17:04.000 --> 02:17:05.000 Yeah. 02:17:05.000 --> 02:17:06.000 All right. 02:17:06.000 --> 02:17:07.000 Thank you. 02:17:07.000 --> 02:17:08.000 Any other comments or questions? 02:17:08.000 --> 02:17:09.000 Can I have a motion to adjourn? 02:17:09.000 --> 02:17:10.000 So moved. 02:17:10.000 --> 02:17:11.000 So moved. 02:17:11.000 --> 02:17:17.240 Thank you.