WEBVTT

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 We do have a quorum, and it is six o'clock.

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 It's time to call the Public Utilities Board meeting of May 20th to order.

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 First, and Alan called me at four o'clock.

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 He had a family emergency come up.

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 That's why he's not present today.

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 The first item is receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding

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 the Denton Energy Center external sound level study.

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 Chris.

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 Yes, ma'am.

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 Can't see these days, so.

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 Yeah.

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 Well, good evening, PUB members.

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 Have a presentation here for you and kind of give you some, it's kind of an atypical

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 presentation so that the basis for this presentation is a sound issue that was brought to our attention

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 by an adjacent landowner or adjacent resident, homeowner, adjacent to the Denton Energy's

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 property.

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 I want to kind of preface this as I've worked my way through it and I get in here and I

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 use the word complaint.

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 Complaint probably isn't the proper word.

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 So as you know, most of you have been here through the construction of the deck, a very

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 large project, so he was a neighbor for about 18 months to the city's largest construction

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 project and we never heard a word out of him.

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 So in meeting him and talking to him, he thinks the project is a good project and he's on

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 board with it.

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 There's just some issues, which I use that word a lot, issue that he has with it that

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 he would like resolved.

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 So I use the word complaint in my presentation, but as I thought about it, I didn't think

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 it was justified because the gentleman has been very professional, very courteous and

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 he just wants the issue resolved.

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 So as the title says, we're here to talk about external sound level study.

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 So background, so to get started on this, DME received an issue by the homeowner that's

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 immediately adjacent to the Denton Energy Center in November 2018.

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 So his property is just northwest, he abuts up to the plant's property right off of Jim

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 Crystal.

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 So I'll back up a little bit and give you the basis of his issue and I have to back

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 up a couple more years.

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 So prior, during the planning stages of the Denton Energy Center, some DME staff approached

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 the landowner and ensured him that the plant would not be a noise nuisance or any kind

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 of nuisance to him.

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 So as I look back in that, the DME staff at that point, the plan was to only have six

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 engines at that site on Jim Crystal and six engines would be located north.

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 So at that point, there would be half the sound there is now, half the light there is

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 now, half the footprint there is now.

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 So an oversight on the DME staff as it went through the approval process and the city

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 council ultimately elected to put all 12 engines at the site of Jim Crystal, then the repercussions

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 of that or any noise level increase, light level increase, that information was not taken

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 back to the homeowner.

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 So that's the basis of his issue is he feels he was misled.

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 So going back to the current day, his particular issue is when he's at home and the deck is

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 operating in the evening or in the early morning, he can hear the plant running in his house

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 and he feels that he was misled because that was not going to be the case.

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 So the noise he's hearing is if anybody's been on a cruise ship, it's just that rhythmic

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 thumping that you hear on a cruise ship.

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 So if you're on a cruise ship, more than likely that was a Wartzilla engine powering that

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 ship.

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 We have 12 of them.

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 So that is the noise that he was reporting.

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 So I contacted the homeowner to hear what his issues were.

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 His main issue was the noise and the rest of the presentation will talk about how we're

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 dealing with the noise issue.

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 A secondary issue he had was the light.

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 So he said, man, your engineers are good because there's a light that shines from there that

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 goes right through the trees right into my bedroom.

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 Is there anything you can do about that?

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 So I was like, sure, sure.

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 So I got with the substation manager and we thought about it.

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 Normally we leave the lights on in the substation for safety sake.

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 You want to deter people from entering the substation at night, especially on remote

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 sites that there's not a lot of people around.

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 Well, it just so happens that there's a power plant next door that has a lot of lights on

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 the building.

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 So I got with the substation manager and he said, hey, you know what?

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 We can turn all the lights in the substation off as our normal operating procedure.

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 And if the workers need to enter in the evening time or anything like that, we would turn

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 them on for safety.

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 But our normal operating procedure would be that the substation would be dark.

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 So it was a Friday.

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 We had all the lights turned off, called the homeowner.

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 I said, hey, we're going to try something, see if it's better.

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 So he called me that Monday and said, hey, man, that's great.

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 So I wish the sound issue was as simple as flipping a switch, but it wasn't.

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 So I promised him that we would take some steps.

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 We would try to identify the source of the noise, the type of noise, and see what we

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 could do about it.

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 So again, he was very appreciative of our efforts.

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 So starting in November, we'll go forward with the actions that we've taken.

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 So I brought the issue to the DME management, then we went, saw the city manager, and it

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 was decided that we would install some sound monitors.

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 So what is being heard?

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 What is the frequency?

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 What is the intensity of the sound?

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 So we decided on two monitors.

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 One would be located just outside the power plants, north wall.

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 So just north of the north engine hall is the gas skid.

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 So that's where the big regulator is that drops the pressure that goes into the plant.

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 It's pretty noisy itself.

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 So to be fair for this study, we picked the noisiest spot we could find at the plant.

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 We put the first monitor there.

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 And the second monitor is best to be located as close to the gentleman's house as possible.

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 So he was very gracious, and he gave us the authority to come on his property.

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 And we placed the second monitor just adjacent to his backyard.

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 So if you picture his house, his house setting, there's a pool to the south in his backyard,

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 and then that falls off on down to the plant.

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 So we put the sound monitor, and I have some pictures, kind of put this in spatial context.

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 Put the second monitor on his property, and they're logging 24 hours a day.

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 They're remote.

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 They upload their data via cell connection, and we could actually access this online.

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 So every morning I could log in and see what was going on.

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 So as we went through this, we elected to keep the monitors out there for about four

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 weeks.

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 So as you know, the weather is very difficult to predict in Texas.

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 And if we go back to where the issue arise was in November of 2018, if you remember back,

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 there was a very atypical cold spell in North Texas.

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 We had high temperatures in the low 40s and the freezing temperatures were dropping down

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 in the 20s.

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 So at that point, the deck was running, I wouldn't say, in its normal operating curve

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 there.

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 So it was running early in the morning as people get up and turn their heaters on and

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 running late in the evening.

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 So that's kind of the time period that initiated this.

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 So we wanted to capture the deck running at these different atmospheric temperatures.

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 So as you know, the colder it is, the better sound travels.

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 So if there's a really stiff north wind, then the plant's not audible.

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 If there's a really strong south wind, maybe it's a little more audible.

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 So we wanted to catch these different atmospheric conditions, and we also wanted to give the

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 plant a chance to run.

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 So as you know, you're familiar with how the deck operates, ERCOT market dictates when

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 it runs and when it doesn't.

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 So to be fair to the study, be fair to the homeowner, we wanted the plant running at

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 these different conditions.

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 So we selected about a four-week window.

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 About three-quarters of the way through the monitoring phase, the homeowner called me

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 and said, "Hey, Chris, would you come to my house for coffee at 6 p.m. so you can hear

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 this thing running?"

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 And he was very sincere about it.

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 He didn't want to just, you know, be maybe a citizen that's just complaining to complain.

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 He really has an issue, and he wanted us to come.

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 So I invited Jason Brown, and we invited the deck plant.

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 We got on the Outlook scheduler thing.

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 It's hard to get that plant at a meeting.

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 So but we were able to do that.

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 Jason was able to schedule with ERCOT a forced run for 6 p.m.

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 So that would give us the ability to meet the gentleman, fire up the plant, and so we

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 could have it running.

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 We could change the output, and we could see what he's experiencing.

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 So Jason and I leave the plant, and we're driving over to his house, and we're at his

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 gate, and Jason has a radio, and the control room comes on and says, "ERCOT just dispatched

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 the plant."

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 So as we're setting at the gate, we hear the plant start.

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 So that's kind of how the meeting started.

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 So we went on into his property.

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 He met us.

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 We walked around the back area of his house, which is a pool, and the plant is audible.

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 You can hear it.

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 So he invited us inside for coffee.

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 So on this house, the two southern rooms of his house which face the plant, one is a bedroom,

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 one is a sitting room.

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 So we're in the sitting room, having conversation.

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 You cannot hear the plant.

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 And I don't have very good hearing to begin with, but you can't hear it.

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 So once you get quiet and you kind of tune your ears to it, you can hear it.

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 So and then once you hear it, I mean, it kind of sticks with you.

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 So I can imagine him, you know, in his bedroom late at night, it's quiet.

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 He can hear the plant.

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 So we wrapped up our meeting, finished our coffee, and we left.

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 And then the next phase was to try to figure out where this sound is coming from.

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 So when we constructed the plant, we upgraded the walls of the plant.

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 They're metal walls.

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 They have sound-absorbing material in them.

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 And the roof has quite a bit of insulation in it, which is just kind of at a loss of

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 where this noise is coming from.

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 So initially, we thought it was the outside fans, intake fans.

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 That theory was wrong.

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 So we asked ENC, that's environmental noise control, could they provide modeling, predictive

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 modeling for the plant.

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 So the technicians had to come back and pick up the monitoring devices.

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 They sent out an acoustic tech with a handheld device.

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 We spent the morning gathering data both at the residence house and at the plant.

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 So we went around every noise-generating fan, outside the doors, pretty exhaustive survey.

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 And we had a DME and their transmission bucket truck there.

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 So we actually put the acoustic tech in the bucket, raised him up to 50 foot, took levels,

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 raised him up to 100 foot, took levels.

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 And then they actually rotated him over the roof, and they put him over by the ridge vent.

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 And he took some samples.

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 So hang on to that concept of ridge vent, because we're going to revisit it.

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 So he took the data back, and they generated a report.

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 We got it on about March the 19th.

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 And again, the residence has been very patient, as this took a couple of months.

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 And so we got the results of the report, and we shared them with the homeowner as promised.

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 So here's an area map to kind of summarize or kind of give some spatial context of what

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 was going on.

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 So this is Jim Crystal Road here, along the north part of the picture.

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 The red square here is the homeowner's residence.

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 He accesses off of Jim Crystal.

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 This spot right here was where we put the sound monitoring device on his property.

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 As you can see from this edge of his kind of backyard family area there to the edge

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 of the north engine hall is about 2,250 feet.

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 As you can see, there's nothing in between here.

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 And another thing I should say is when Jason and I were at his house standing on his deck,

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 his house is considerably higher than the power plant, which driving in there every

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 day for a year, I never would have thought that.

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 But when you're on his back pool, you're looking down at an angle at the deck.

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 So I think that's playing a part in some of the issue we're having.

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 And as you'll see here, here's the north engine hall, and the monitor was placed just outside

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 of that, inside the gate.

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 So a sound reference chart.

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 So the rest of this presentation will be talking about decibels.

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 Brent knows a whole lot about DBA and DBB.

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 But this chart kind of gives you some indoor and outdoor levels to kind of reference.

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 So sound is a tricky thing to talk about because it's how people perceive it.

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 So DBA is actually a measure of intensity or pressure.

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 And so we'll start up here, our engines are off the chart.

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 So our engines are putting out about 125 dB at about 10 feet away from them.

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 So it's not cumulative.

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 So in our engine halls, it's not 750 dB.

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 It's about 130 dB.

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 So this first line you see here drawn at 70 dB.

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 That's the sound level of the plant at that monitoring station just north of the plant

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 at full plant output.

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 So as you see, our building is attenuating a large majority of the sound.

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 The second line you see here, that's the model sound level at the residence.

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 That's 57.6 dB.

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 So that's what the model says after gathering all this data, the plant's running at its

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 full output.

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 That's how loud it would be at the residence.

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 This bottom line here is set in at about 45 dB.

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 That's the average sound at his residence when the plant is not running.

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 So we had a month of data.

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 It's somewhere between quiet urban daytime and quiet urban nighttime.

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 There's a lot of noise out there.

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 And I'll have a graph here later to kind of show you where we think that's coming from.

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 But again, it is about a 10 dB increase is what the model predicts at his house.

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 So here's some quick data.

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 So this is from the actual, from the ENC server.

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 So this is the data that the, those two data devices are logging.

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 On January 28th, the plant on your left is from the plant.

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 So this first box over here to the left, I call this the planes, trains, and automobile

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 box.

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 So one of the features of this, of this, of these devices are they're logging this, this

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 sound levels continuously, but we were able to set a trigger.

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 So we could set a trigger, say, I think for the, for the plant, we ended up putting it

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 about 60 dB.

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 If the sound goes over 60 dB, the device records the next 10 seconds.

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 So you can see what's, what's the source of the sound.

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 And then it takes about a 20, 20 second shutoff.

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 And so it doesn't, there's not enough bandwidth to record all of this.

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 So these certain events you can capture.

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 So the planes, trains, and automobiles, we could hear jets flying over, landing the DFW,

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 small plane traffic at flying into Denton regional, truck traffic on 380, trains on 35.

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 So these anomalies you see over here, they're not associated with the plant because the

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 plant was not running.

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 This box right here, you can clearly see the plant ramp up to 70 dB.

00:15:55.040 --> 00:16:02.120
 So this is the plant coming online very quickly and hanging out right at about 7, 70 dB.

00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.160
 On the right is the same time period from the other monitor at the residence.

00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:12.560
 Again, you can see these unidentified noise spikes, the planes, trains, automobiles, and

00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:17.400
 then you can see when the plant kicks on this day was right at about 5 a.m.

00:16:17.400 --> 00:16:21.020
 You can see his background level, the plant actually brings that up.

00:16:21.020 --> 00:16:23.840
 So that's very indicative of what the model shows.

00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:28.480
 The values you see here, I mean, it's hard to find a line in there, but the model and

00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:33.200
 the data we gathered, they tended to correlate.

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:34.840
 So we got to go back to the ridge vents.

00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:40.200
 So the noise source is the modeling is going on and walking around and you're in the engine

00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.600
 halls and a lot of you have been out there, I mean, it's very quiet.

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.000
 Man, where's the noise coming from?

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.000
 So you walk around and you look up and you can see the sun coming through the roof.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:56.440
 So the ridge vents, and I have a picture here, they're closed when you're not operating,

00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.840
 but when the intake fans come on, the ridge vents have to open.

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:02.680
 So the engines are kept very warm all the time.

00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:07.140
 So the engine hall environment is typically pretty toasty.

00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:14.000
 And so to make that a workable environment for Jason's guys and for additional cooling

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.840
 of the engines, when the engines start, these 12 fans come on and they bring in a massive

00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:23.480
 amount of air and all the air from the outside comes in, has to go out the roof.

00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.200
 So that's the purpose of the ridge vents.

00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.120
 So they have to be there.

00:17:28.120 --> 00:17:31.760
 And as we note, as you look around, the ridge vents are the only portion of the engine hall

00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:37.760
 shale that don't have sound absorbing properties.

00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:40.880
 My next slide here is to kind of show you what the ridge vents are.

00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.320
 They're 160 foot long, they're 10 foot wide, conveniently they sit on the ridge.

00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:49.640
 I don't know where they got their name, but I'll take a guess here.

00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.360
 And on this Instagram worthy picture here of our engines, if you look up, you can see

00:17:54.360 --> 00:17:58.000
 the sun shining through on the girder.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.680
 So the kind of the story where I left off with the guy in the bucket, yeah, when he

00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.280
 got up there and he got down, he's like, "I know what your problem is."

00:18:06.280 --> 00:18:10.600
 And so it is the ridge vents.

00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:14.280
 So you take an electrical engineer, so now we know the source of the noise.

00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:16.120
 So how do you fix it?

00:18:16.120 --> 00:18:20.360
 So you take electrical engineer, I was like, "Oh, that's easy, we'll just build a berm."

00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:29.720
 So my idea was to build a berm 1,200 foot long and about 15 foot high.

00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.040
 So my thought is, is the deck's going to be there for a long time?

00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:38.120
 Let's put this house into a like a sound shadow.

00:18:38.120 --> 00:18:41.480
 It'll provide some visual screening between him.

00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.640
 I thought it was a good idea.

00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:50.080
 So we sent it off, we asked the acoustical engineer to model this to see if it was going

00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:51.720
 to work before we proceeded with it.

00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:57.680
 So as I said, he actually modeled it 16 foot high and it ran about 1,200 foot long.

00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:59.680
 The estimated cost was $500,000.

00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:06.840
 So that's the import of the soil and it's a substantial amount of soil and the shaping

00:19:06.840 --> 00:19:08.500
 and compacting of the berm.

00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:14.920
 And as you see, it was not a good idea, as the berm would provide 0.2 dBs of noise reduction.

00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.960
 So here I am, I think I have good ideas every now and then.

00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:24.320
 Obviously this wasn't one, but basically what it was is the house is high and the noise

00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:28.880
 source is high and you put the berm in the valley, the sound's just going over the berm.

00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.320
 So now we'll go with the experts, his options.

00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:36.720
 So again, I should have said mitigation in this case is just sound reducing options.

00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:42.280
 So the acoustic engineer at ENC came back with the idea of a silencer.

00:19:42.280 --> 00:19:45.800
 So the silencers would set on top of the existing ridge vent.

00:19:45.800 --> 00:19:47.840
 Here's actually a picture of one over here.

00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:50.880
 So basically these modules would be stacked on the ridge vent.

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:56.880
 They allow the air to escape and kind of trap the noise, kind of like a muffler does on

00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.440
 your car, very similar.

00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.560
 So our exhaust has mufflers on it.

00:20:00.560 --> 00:20:05.540
 This would be muffling the exhaust air coming out.

00:20:05.540 --> 00:20:07.800
 They're heavy, they do add some load to the building.

00:20:07.800 --> 00:20:13.680
 So we did some reach out to the building manufacturer and the structural engineer's initial calculations

00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.520
 are the building can withstand the additional weight.

00:20:16.520 --> 00:20:22.600
 We didn't go into great depth with that engineering study, but he said it is possible.

00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:29.960
 And the budgetary estimate for these devices on both engine halls is right at about $380,000.

00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:35.880
 And the bottom line is you'll see that it provides approximately 8.7 dB of noise reduction

00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.480
 at the residence.

00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.800
 So I'll come back to that to kind of put that in context, just kind of throwing that number

00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:41.800
 out there.

00:20:41.800 --> 00:20:42.800
 But I'll put that in context.

00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:47.480
 Do you need more detail on the silencers to show us what it entails?

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:48.480
 No sir.

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:53.260
 This is all I have for the - it would be a custom-made product that they'll have to manufacture.

00:20:53.260 --> 00:20:54.260
 So we kind of -

00:20:54.260 --> 00:20:55.680
 Are there any mechanics inside?

00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:56.680
 No sir.

00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:57.680
 They're totally passive.

00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.680
 They're totally passive.

00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:04.880
 So basically, in concept, you have some angled planes in there so sound can be reflected.

00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:05.880
 So that's what they are.

00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:07.040
 They're a set of angled planes.

00:21:07.040 --> 00:21:10.800
 They don't add too much head pressure to your air escaping, but they try to reflect the

00:21:10.800 --> 00:21:13.240
 sound back down into the building.

00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:17.480
 So they're passive so there is no - there's nothing in it.

00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.160
 It's a baffle.

00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.160
 Sound baffle.

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:21.160
 Yes sir.

00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:22.160
 Yes sir.

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.480
 This is exactly what it is.

00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.240
 They're used a lot extensively.

00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.120
 Turbines are very, very loud.

00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:31.800
 Maybe those are inducted out the side of the building through a set of these silencers

00:21:31.800 --> 00:21:32.800
 baffles.

00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:37.080
 They just weren't included in our plan.

00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:41.360
 Option three, if you read through the report, was just a combination of option one and two.

00:21:41.360 --> 00:21:47.600
 It was very expensive at about $900,000 and it didn't provide any additional - again,

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.040
 my bad idea is showing up in there.

00:21:51.040 --> 00:21:54.040
 So here's a color representation of the model.

00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:58.320
 So I think this is important to kind of show you what's going on here.

00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:02.280
 Simplified sound is kind of like throwing a pebble into a pond and then the ring spread

00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:03.280
 out from there.

00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:08.160
 As you can see that sound acts in a - sound waves act in a similar fashion.

00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:13.720
 So you can see the red where he took his samples on the - up on the ridge vents and the red

00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.760
 over on the - underneath the radiators.

00:22:16.760 --> 00:22:19.080
 That sound there, that's not what we're hearing.

00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:20.740
 A lot of that was the wind blowing.

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:21.740
 So they're downdraft.

00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:25.900
 They were moving so much air that I think that skewed those readings there.

00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:32.620
 But definitely you can see the effect of the - of the noise coming out of the ridge vents

00:22:32.620 --> 00:22:37.220
 and up here at receptor one, that is the monitor at the resident's house.

00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:38.220
 So this is the predictive value.

00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:41.560
 I guess I got off a little bit, 56.1.

00:22:41.560 --> 00:22:44.280
 And then you can see how the sound radiates out.

00:22:44.280 --> 00:22:48.480
 So unmitigated would be if Jason started the plant tomorrow, this is kind of what the model

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.900
 said it would sound like.

00:22:50.900 --> 00:22:51.900
 This is mitigated.

00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:54.100
 So this is what the silencers install.

00:22:54.100 --> 00:22:56.520
 So you can see the drastic reduction.

00:22:56.520 --> 00:23:00.100
 This noise level out here in the blue is 40 to 45.

00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:02.720
 That would be there if the deck wasn't there at all.

00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.960
 That's just the ambient background noise at this part of town.

00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:11.120
 The gray would be - at the house would be at about 47.4 dB.

00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:14.780
 So his background levels are about 45.

00:23:14.780 --> 00:23:21.700
 The model says you install the baffle or baffles silencers and you bring that down about 8.7.

00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:23.860
 It gets it very close to background noise.

00:23:23.860 --> 00:23:28.540
 So a thing I'll say here and the same thing I've told the homeowner, we can't make this

00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:29.620
 a stealthy plant.

00:23:29.620 --> 00:23:31.300
 It's never going to be zero.

00:23:31.300 --> 00:23:33.900
 We can't reduce the noise totally.

00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:38.860
 That's just not financially feasible and probably not even an engineering feat we could do.

00:23:38.860 --> 00:23:43.740
 So the benefit of this that I see is going from this.

00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:50.180
 If you think of this as the sound footprint of the deck with the silencers on is bringing

00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:56.660
 this - these yellow values out here that are at the residence solely within the perimeter

00:23:56.660 --> 00:24:01.740
 of the security walls of Jim Crystal and the Denton Energy Center.

00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:10.460
 So again, this is today and this is the predictive values with the silencers installed.

00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:13.500
 So in summary, berm option one, not a very good idea.

00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:16.900
 That's about $500,000.

00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:25.080
 Option two is the silencers installed on the roof at about 378,000 and about 8.7 dB.

00:24:25.080 --> 00:24:26.300
 So I said I would get back to it.

00:24:26.300 --> 00:24:29.160
 So basically this is the same chart that I've shown before.

00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.300
 So here's the modeled sound, unmitigated sound at the residence.

00:24:33.300 --> 00:24:40.180
 So you're looking to installing the silencers on the ridge vents would bring this red line

00:24:40.180 --> 00:24:45.660
 down almost to where it is when the plant's not running.

00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:49.760
 So that's about the equivalent of your 8.7 dB.

00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:55.340
 So staff recommendation is kind of two-fold is to prepare an RFP for design, supply and

00:24:55.340 --> 00:24:58.900
 installation of the ridge vent silencers.

00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:01.500
 It is an expensive apparatus.

00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:04.660
 As you know, the deck came in under budget.

00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:09.460
 Some of those funds we've transferred among other projects but we've kept back money because

00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:10.980
 we knew this issue was coming.

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:16.300
 So there's funds available in the original funds to fund this.

00:25:16.300 --> 00:25:17.700
 So it's two-folded.

00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:24.340
 At this point, I feel that the silencers would alleviate the sound issue that the existing

00:25:24.340 --> 00:25:26.100
 resident has.

00:25:26.100 --> 00:25:30.860
 And then going forward, you know, we haven't even got to the first birthday yet of the

00:25:30.860 --> 00:25:31.860
 deck.

00:25:31.860 --> 00:25:33.740
 So it has many more years to come.

00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:39.060
 The airport is the boundary, you know, there's not going to be any development to the east.

00:25:39.060 --> 00:25:40.260
 The residence to the west.

00:25:40.260 --> 00:25:47.620
 There's a lot of undeveloped area to the west and to the south of the Denton Energy Center.

00:25:47.620 --> 00:25:49.820
 So basically, two-fold.

00:25:49.820 --> 00:25:54.880
 So it could solve the problem we have today and alleviate the sound issue at the residence

00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:55.880
 house.

00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:00.820
 And also going forward, it drastically shrinks that sound footprint of the deck so that it

00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:09.500
 doesn't impact any future development, be it residential or commercial in this area.

00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:14.860
 And alternate options are, as I researched in there, there's the military, if you have

00:26:14.860 --> 00:26:18.300
 your Bose noise-canceling headphones.

00:26:18.300 --> 00:26:20.740
 They're basically doing that to buildings these days.

00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:24.380
 There's lots of technology out there that, you know, could be as advanced as that or

00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:28.780
 it could be, you know, sound-absorbing materials or just maybe issues out there that we don't

00:26:28.780 --> 00:26:29.780
 know.

00:26:29.780 --> 00:26:33.900
 So it's not about an RFI to say, "Hey, does anybody have a solution to this issue?"

00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:38.140
 A concern with this option is the timetable of getting that done.

00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:40.660
 So that could be a lengthy process.

00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:46.380
 And then finally, there's always the option that we take no further action on the sound

00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:47.900
 mitigation at the deck.

00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:51.180
 I had to throw it out there.

00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:52.700
 So anyway, I thank you for your time.

00:26:52.700 --> 00:26:57.340
 I know that's kind of a long-winded presentation, but now open for any questions.

00:26:57.340 --> 00:26:58.340
 Questions?

00:26:58.340 --> 00:27:00.260
 I have a few.

00:27:00.260 --> 00:27:01.500
 Yes, sir.

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:06.220
 So in your presentation, you mentioned that some staff went out to speak to them prior

00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:09.740
 to the deck even being constructed.

00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:12.500
 Is that what you were saying?

00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:13.500
 Yes, sir.

00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:14.500
 Yes, sir.

00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:22.020
 And that the original concept was for six engines, and then we ended up putting 12 there.

00:27:22.020 --> 00:27:29.420
 We actually had either part of the job of consultants that we had already hired or consultants

00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.140
 that were hired for this separately.

00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:36.700
 Somebody did some extrapolated data about noise way back then.

00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:39.820
 So was it just a casual thing of we're guessing?

00:27:39.820 --> 00:27:48.060
 It was we paid somebody to tell us how loud the sound was going to be at different points.

00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:52.900
 I'm not familiar with that study or that report.

00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:57.140
 I reached out to Burns and McDonald, which was a design engineer for this project.

00:27:57.140 --> 00:28:02.340
 So they've done, as we've talked about before, the Red Gate plant down in McAllen is out

00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:03.340
 in the country.

00:28:03.340 --> 00:28:06.540
 There is no sound absorbing walls in that point.

00:28:06.540 --> 00:28:14.300
 So their engineering opinion, and again, I'm not aware of a study that was done, was that

00:28:14.300 --> 00:28:18.020
 the decibel level would be below 65 dB at the property line.

00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:25.540
 That's why we did all of the sound absorbing in the building.

00:28:25.540 --> 00:28:26.660
 I tried to find it.

00:28:26.660 --> 00:28:28.140
 I wasn't able to find it.

00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:29.140
 Yes, sir.

00:28:29.140 --> 00:28:30.140
 I'm not able to.

00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:36.780
 I don't have a well organized enough library to contain all the documents that I've gotten

00:28:36.780 --> 00:28:37.780
 from you guys.

00:28:37.780 --> 00:28:39.980
 So we did do a study.

00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:44.580
 And another thing that kept being brought up, and again, I know this was different leadership,

00:28:44.580 --> 00:28:52.340
 but we still have to work with it, was that everybody was 500 feet away, right?

00:28:52.340 --> 00:28:58.140
 That people were so far back that it might not even matter.

00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:00.460
 And can you speak to that?

00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:02.460
 What are the legislative requirements?

00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:06.900
 What are the statutes that we have to follow rather than, I mean, I think it's fine that

00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:10.740
 we've gotten this mention of the noise and that we're responding to it.

00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:12.400
 And I believe that's perfect.

00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:16.580
 But before we take any action, it seems like we should understand what we're required to

00:29:16.580 --> 00:29:23.020
 do by law so that as you say, when all these infill people start coming in, if we've demonstrated

00:29:23.020 --> 00:29:26.540
 that we're going to respond to somebody saying they're not comfortable hanging out on their

00:29:26.540 --> 00:29:30.340
 back deck anymore, then we're going to get a bunch of calls about people not being comfortable

00:29:30.340 --> 00:29:31.820
 hanging out on their back deck.

00:29:31.820 --> 00:29:34.180
 And so what are our requirements?

00:29:34.180 --> 00:29:37.700
 What decibel requirements do we have or are there any?

00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:43.220
 I looked through that, so interesting to see that I could not find in the development code

00:29:43.220 --> 00:29:46.140
 like an industrial limit or a specific limit.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:51.660
 What I could find is people have to come in front of the City Council to get, what would

00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:55.820
 it be, like for a concert, a jazz festival has to apply for a variance to have noise

00:29:55.820 --> 00:29:59.140
 levels greater than 65 dB.

00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:04.500
 Industry standard from what I see is in that 60 to 65 dB would be considered acceptable.

00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:05.500
 Okay.

00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:06.500
 Okay.

00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:08.940
 Just a couple more things on the slide.

00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:14.140
 And if you can find the study, I can look some more, as you kind of know the history,

00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:18.540
 there is a gap in the record, so when I took over the project, we didn't have full access

00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:23.360
 to, of course, the personnel that probably did that, so there is kind of a knowledge

00:30:23.360 --> 00:30:24.360
 gap there.

00:30:24.360 --> 00:30:31.580
 In fact, it was kind of done in a, hey, they're all over 500 feet anyway, so it doesn't really

00:30:31.580 --> 00:30:37.540
 matter kind of vein, so I didn't, you know, but we paid for it, so.

00:30:37.540 --> 00:30:43.060
 In one of these slides here, there's this, there's these things in parenthesis, sound

00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:46.260
 absorbing walls were originally installed.

00:30:46.260 --> 00:30:47.260
 Yes.

00:30:47.260 --> 00:30:48.260
 What does that mean?

00:30:48.260 --> 00:30:50.780
 That's the, I'll let you answer, Chris.

00:30:50.780 --> 00:30:57.140
 Yeah, if you, if you were to turn the deck, so our construction is, we have a steel building.

00:30:57.140 --> 00:31:01.780
 That's two, two back.

00:31:01.780 --> 00:31:02.780
 Right there.

00:31:02.780 --> 00:31:03.780
 Sounds a little more.

00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:07.380
 See, because it makes it sound like there was something that was absorbing sound near

00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.180
 or on the ridge vents that are not there anymore.

00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:11.180
 Is that what that says?

00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:13.140
 No, sir, that's, that's probably not worded well.

00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:16.780
 So what we have in there, so our construction, there was, there was an upgrade.

00:31:16.780 --> 00:31:22.420
 So say you're, if you were to visit Red Gate, down in McAllen, they're, they're 25 miles

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:23.780
 out in the country.

00:31:23.780 --> 00:31:29.720
 So their construction method is just a steel building that's insulated, and that's it.

00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:34.020
 So we knew that, that noise was going to be an issue, or, or the, the planners of this

00:31:34.020 --> 00:31:36.060
 knew noise was going to be an issue.

00:31:36.060 --> 00:31:38.460
 So we have a building upgrade from SWOBE.

00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:42.500
 So if you walk out and look at the deck, it has sound absorbing material.

00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:49.940
 So it has steel, insulation, wool, to absorb the sound, and then the wall is perforated.

00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:53.140
 So there's perforated panels all along the wall.

00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:54.500
 So that's what absorbs the material.

00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:56.500
 So that was a, an upgrade that DME purchased.

00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:57.500
 I get it, I get it.

00:31:57.500 --> 00:31:58.500
 The wording.

00:31:58.500 --> 00:31:59.500
 Yes, sir, I, I apologize.

00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:00.500
 I get it.

00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:01.500
 I get it.

00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.500
 Yes, sir.

00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:03.500
 Okay, so one more question.

00:32:03.500 --> 00:32:04.500
 Yes, sir.

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.420
 The, the engines, as you guys have pointed out several times, they're highly technical

00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:07.420
 devices.

00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:08.620
 They're not just lawnmower engines.

00:32:08.620 --> 00:32:13.020
 So somebody knows how loud they're supposed to be, what kind of vibrations they're supposed

00:32:13.020 --> 00:32:14.020
 to give off.

00:32:14.020 --> 00:32:16.220
 Are they performing like they're supposed to perform?

00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:17.220
 Yes, sir.

00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:22.340
 So, well, I could let Jason speak to that, but we had a sound guarantee in the contract.

00:32:22.340 --> 00:32:28.940
 So the, the sound guarantee is 125 dB at 3 meters from the engine.

00:32:28.940 --> 00:32:35.220
 So we, so when they, the, the testing facility was in Italy when the engines were test run,

00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:41.020
 they provided us documentation and our engines were coming in like at 118, 119 dB.

00:32:41.020 --> 00:32:44.500
 So that they met the, the noise requirement per the contract.

00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.740
 As far as vibrations, you're exactly right.

00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:51.340
 If you could go out there and, and Jason wouldn't want to show you, those engines aren't bolted

00:32:51.340 --> 00:32:52.340
 down.

00:32:52.340 --> 00:32:55.340
 They, they rest on, on 70 spring packs.

00:32:55.340 --> 00:32:59.260
 So that, that, that was one concern there was what it was vibration, because there are

00:32:59.260 --> 00:33:04.340
 issues where they've had some plant vibrations traveling in the earth and there's nothing

00:33:04.340 --> 00:33:05.340
 you can do about it.

00:33:05.340 --> 00:33:07.980
 So the engines are resting on spring packs.

00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:15.340
 So I would say similar to your, to your other plant, we don't think it's a vibration issue

00:33:15.340 --> 00:33:16.340
 at all.

00:33:16.340 --> 00:33:17.340
 Okay.

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:18.340
 All right.

00:33:18.340 --> 00:33:19.340
 Thank you.

00:33:19.340 --> 00:33:20.340
 Yes, sir.

00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:21.340
 Any other questions?

00:33:21.340 --> 00:33:22.340
 Mr. cheek.

00:33:22.340 --> 00:33:31.740
 So I haven't been back in the beauty very long, much longer, closer to the mic, please.

00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:32.740
 Yeah.

00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:33.740
 Okay.

00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:34.740
 Haven't been back here very much longer.

00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:40.540
 So has this the, this issue come through pub before any other, the sound issue?

00:33:40.540 --> 00:33:41.540
 Yes.

00:33:41.540 --> 00:33:42.540
 About this gentleman.

00:33:42.540 --> 00:33:43.540
 No, sir.

00:33:43.540 --> 00:33:44.540
 It has not.

00:33:44.540 --> 00:33:45.540
 It has not.

00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:46.540
 So we, we met with the city manager.

00:33:46.540 --> 00:33:47.540
 Again, he was patient.

00:33:47.540 --> 00:33:50.740
 So we, we wanted to get some answers before we brought it forward.

00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:54.540
 So the time for the study and that sort of thing, and then getting, getting it on the

00:33:54.540 --> 00:33:55.540
 agenda.

00:33:55.540 --> 00:33:58.260
 So this is the first, the first that you've heard about it.

00:33:58.260 --> 00:33:59.260
 Okay.

00:33:59.260 --> 00:34:00.260
 All right.

00:34:00.260 --> 00:34:03.420
 That makes the next questions pertinent.

00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:09.740
 So you started up the plant to test the noise at 6pm.

00:34:09.740 --> 00:34:12.600
 And I don't know at what capacity you run the DEC.

00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:14.940
 So I don't know if that's a normal operation for you.

00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:19.620
 I would assume that six o'clock in the evenings, probably not a typical time to start the plan

00:34:19.620 --> 00:34:23.300
 up.

00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:24.300
 It was that day.

00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:33.900
 I mean, so Jason, would you join him at the podium, please?

00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:39.180
 Thank you.

00:34:39.180 --> 00:34:40.180
 Good afternoon.

00:34:40.180 --> 00:34:46.300
 Yeah, we do start pretty regular around six o'clock, five o'clock in that time frame.

00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:47.300
 Yeah.

00:34:47.300 --> 00:34:48.300
 For the peak.

00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:49.300
 Typically hours of people getting home.

00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:52.300
 It shifts a little bit.

00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:56.380
 Typically it's during the morning, morning periods, a little bit before seven o'clock

00:34:56.380 --> 00:35:00.340
 and then we'll run for a couple hours and then we'll hit another one in the afternoon,

00:35:00.340 --> 00:35:01.340
 late afternoon.

00:35:01.340 --> 00:35:04.660
 Just to follow the water demand, basically.

00:35:04.660 --> 00:35:08.460
 Just a point of clarification, you were dispatched by ERCOT.

00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:09.460
 Yeah.

00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:10.460
 We didn't just turn it on.

00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:11.460
 Okay.

00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:12.460
 I misunderstood that then.

00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:13.460
 Yeah.

00:35:13.460 --> 00:35:14.460
 We were dispatched.

00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.100
 What I understood was you requested to start up at six o'clock and then ERCOT dispatched

00:35:18.100 --> 00:35:19.980
 you in accordance with your request.

00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:20.980
 That is correct.

00:35:20.980 --> 00:35:21.980
 Okay.

00:35:21.980 --> 00:35:22.980
 Yes, sir.

00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:23.980
 Okay.

00:35:23.980 --> 00:35:24.980
 So it wasn't, they needed us dispatched.

00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:25.980
 No, no.

00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:26.980
 They started and we took over.

00:35:26.980 --> 00:35:27.980
 Yes.

00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:33.260
 I'll file for a must run is what it's technically called with ERCOT if you're not dispatched

00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:37.260
 and you need to start, you need to test, you need to do that kind of stuff.

00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:38.660
 You file for a must run.

00:35:38.660 --> 00:35:41.860
 It was approved, but then we got dispatched.

00:35:41.860 --> 00:35:42.860
 Okay.

00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:43.860
 Fair enough.

00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:44.860
 Right there at the same time period.

00:35:44.860 --> 00:35:45.860
 Thank you.

00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:48.940
 Did anybody keep track of the cost of this entire study?

00:35:48.940 --> 00:35:50.780
 That's you.

00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:54.500
 Yeah, you're out, Jason.

00:35:54.500 --> 00:35:57.260
 If you allow me to give you a ballpark answer, I can give that to you.

00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:58.260
 It's about $21,000.

00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:59.260
 Okay.

00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:00.260
 All right.

00:36:00.260 --> 00:36:01.260
 Give or take $1,000.

00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:07.060
 That's not a lot of money in the budget of DME, but it is a lot of money.

00:36:07.060 --> 00:36:08.060
 Yes, sir.

00:36:08.060 --> 00:36:13.500
 We justified it because of the ramifications that you brought up.

00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:18.900
 There's other secret slides here.

00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:23.700
 I know these colors are hard to see, but this is something we brought forward to Todd.

00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:31.460
 I have the values written down, but if you can kind of see the bullseye there is those

00:36:31.460 --> 00:36:35.940
 are radiuses away from the plant.

00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:37.460
 This is at the center of the plant.

00:36:37.460 --> 00:36:41.960
 There's one residence that's within 2,465 feet.

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.100
 That's the residence we've been talking about today.

00:36:45.100 --> 00:36:51.820
 There's two residences within, so these are distances between, so two residences between

00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:57.300
 2,465 and basically 2,700.

00:36:57.300 --> 00:37:05.980
 Between 2,700 and 3,200, there's only one and about 3,680, so between that gap there's

00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:06.980
 three residences.

00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:09.820
 There's a total of six houses.

00:37:09.820 --> 00:37:17.460
 That gets back to Brendan's question of how many people could come forward and if we're

00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:22.580
 addressing it at the home that's closest to us, that should be mitigating any of those

00:37:22.580 --> 00:37:23.580
 issues.

00:37:23.580 --> 00:37:24.580
 Correct.

00:37:24.580 --> 00:37:31.340
 If you follow that, then the levels, they shouldn't be able to hear it.

00:37:31.340 --> 00:37:32.860
 They were there before us.

00:37:32.860 --> 00:37:33.860
 Yes.

00:37:33.860 --> 00:37:37.180
 All of these are existing homes.

00:37:37.180 --> 00:37:42.660
 Some plant construction experience I have are Thomas Egan, very vocal neighbors, so

00:37:42.660 --> 00:37:47.980
 I had the opportunity to converse with them by email about once a week.

00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:53.900
 So it is my opinion, if they heard it, then they would have said something.

00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:59.580
 So kind of on that, we met with some, we had our plant open house where we invited all

00:37:59.580 --> 00:38:03.900
 the residents of Denton and especially out in this area to come visit us.

00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:09.900
 There were some of Jason Lee's neighbors on this side, so they actually came over and

00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.180
 I asked them, they said they haven't heard anything.

00:38:12.180 --> 00:38:14.020
 They rode their skateboards over towards you?

00:38:14.020 --> 00:38:15.020
 No, no.

00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:19.540
 I didn't say they liked him, but they were just his neighbors.

00:38:19.540 --> 00:38:22.220
 We haven't had any additional feedback.

00:38:22.220 --> 00:38:25.580
 Some of these houses are over here to the east.

00:38:25.580 --> 00:38:31.160
 When the plant's running, there's a lot of vegetation here.

00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:33.980
 I can't hear it at all.

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:34.980
 But that is a concern.

00:38:34.980 --> 00:38:40.500
 And so as you see the staff recommendation, I was trying to be clear that it is to address

00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:45.680
 this issue we have with this resident, but it's also to bring that sound footprint into

00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:51.300
 an area that the deck and Jim Crystal, that's about 18 acres, is trying to keep that level.

00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:57.520
 If you look back at that model, you're talking about nothing leaving the deck modeled at

00:38:57.520 --> 00:39:00.740
 about 60 dB.

00:39:00.740 --> 00:39:06.300
 As far as setbacks go, Mr. Carroll, I'm not aware of any that you have to be away from

00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:08.140
 the facility.

00:39:08.140 --> 00:39:15.300
 We're nowhere near the lot lines and with the closest resident being almost half a mile

00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:18.540
 away, maybe that was the justification.

00:39:18.540 --> 00:39:23.980
 And isn't 500 feet, is that the feet requirement for a public hearing?

00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:26.900
 That was just stuff they were throwing around at the time, you know, because the plant was

00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:31.900
 at the center of the piece of property and I always say, well, how about we notify neighbors

00:39:31.900 --> 00:39:37.780
 who are close to the property line rather than, oh, it's all inside here on this bit.

00:39:37.780 --> 00:39:39.140
 But you know, that's my opinion.

00:39:39.140 --> 00:39:41.260
 This just sounds like a conversation on their front porch.

00:39:41.260 --> 00:39:45.140
 It doesn't really sound like there's nothing in writing with this resident at all.

00:39:45.140 --> 00:39:46.140
 No, sir.

00:39:46.140 --> 00:39:51.820
 It's just a conversation they had and I kind of, I got the residents his version of it

00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:52.820
 and that's.

00:39:52.820 --> 00:39:57.140
 Oh, no, it sounds like, I'm not accusing them of anything at all.

00:39:57.140 --> 00:40:03.980
 Can somebody just eyeball what property in the bull's eye part and the middle circle

00:40:03.980 --> 00:40:07.940
 is property that could become residences?

00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:15.260
 Because if this property is the closest property that we'll ever see, mitigating it down to

00:40:15.260 --> 00:40:21.660
 10 decibels, right, down to and be at the residence, 47, 47, 47.

00:40:21.660 --> 00:40:27.940
 So if he's the closest one that's ever going to be there, then we know we're hitting a

00:40:27.940 --> 00:40:29.460
 mark that's reasonable.

00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:34.820
 But if somebody is going to be able to be at a thousand feet and make this same complaint

00:40:34.820 --> 00:40:38.740
 and we're going to have to respond to it, then what are we going to do then?

00:40:38.740 --> 00:40:41.620
 I guess I, do you say, yes, sir, I do.

00:40:41.620 --> 00:40:44.580
 And that was my, and using this slide, that was my justification.

00:40:44.580 --> 00:40:48.780
 Because these areas out here, it's never going to be silent.

00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:49.780
 It's never going to be.

00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:50.780
 Of course not.

00:40:50.780 --> 00:40:51.780
 Of course not.

00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:52.780
 So you're looking at here.

00:40:52.780 --> 00:40:54.500
 So this is a flood plain over here.

00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:58.820
 These are your TMPA and encore transmission easements are extending out in this area.

00:40:58.820 --> 00:41:05.260
 I do know that the, so if you can see my mouse here, this is the property line for the city.

00:41:05.260 --> 00:41:08.340
 This track down here is not owned by the city.

00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:09.580
 So it could be developed.

00:41:09.580 --> 00:41:15.940
 So we're looking at it in that thousand feet or something, 50 degree, yes sir, 50 decibels

00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:19.820
 at the boundary of the plant as it is now.

00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:21.460
 This is the airport over here.

00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:26.420
 The city, I can probably get you back, sorry, jumping around here.

00:41:26.420 --> 00:41:29.940
 The city owns this track, if you kind of follow my mouth.

00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:36.780
 Basically the hay field out here that Jason gets to mow is the acreage that the city owns.

00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:37.780
 And the airport is?

00:41:37.780 --> 00:41:38.780
 Yes ma'am.

00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.780
 Yes ma'am.

00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:40.780
 The airport is right here.

00:41:40.780 --> 00:41:42.140
 There she is and there's going to be another runway.

00:41:42.140 --> 00:41:44.860
 Yeah, there are additional runways over here.

00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:49.700
 Some of the city's land, this section here was actually given over to the airport.

00:41:49.700 --> 00:41:52.140
 So the development to that side is locked.

00:41:52.140 --> 00:41:57.260
 This creek area, so we have encore station here, an old DME station here that eventually

00:41:57.260 --> 00:42:00.900
 will be decommissioned and removed.

00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.380
 This is a flood zone here.

00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:06.580
 So there will not be development in this area here.

00:42:06.580 --> 00:42:10.860
 The gentleman who's, this is a gas lot here.

00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:17.660
 So his property, he's at like 42 acres is his chunk and it's kind of an L-shaped.

00:42:17.660 --> 00:42:24.420
 So this area here, I would say, has the potential to be developed and you would be at a noise

00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:25.420
 level.

00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:26.420
 So that would be the area of greatest concern.

00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:27.420
 Yes sir.

00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:30.700
 It looked like half of it might end up being higher than the level that we're mitigating

00:42:30.700 --> 00:42:33.460
 it with or that we're trying to do with the baffles.

00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:34.460
 Correct, correct.

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:35.460
 Yes sir.

00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:36.460
 Yes sir.

00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:41.740
 If you're living there and we came in, that's different than we're there and you move in,

00:42:41.740 --> 00:42:42.740
 right?

00:42:42.740 --> 00:42:43.740
 Sure.

00:42:43.740 --> 00:42:44.740
 Of course.

00:42:44.740 --> 00:42:48.580
 But that doesn't often stop people from telling people how they feel about something.

00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:49.580
 True.

00:42:49.580 --> 00:42:50.580
 True.

00:42:50.580 --> 00:42:51.580
 Yes.

00:42:51.580 --> 00:42:53.500
 Do we have any idea what the noise levels are from the airport?

00:42:53.500 --> 00:43:00.580
 Because that other, that potentially developable area is closer to the airport.

00:43:00.580 --> 00:43:03.540
 Those spikes look a little bit bigger.

00:43:03.540 --> 00:43:10.780
 This is the airport and I brought that up with the resident and his, not justification

00:43:10.780 --> 00:43:13.780
 but his explanation is that noise is passing.

00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:19.060
 So an airplane flies over you and it's gone and it doesn't have the annoyance factor that

00:43:19.060 --> 00:43:20.900
 a steady, constant noise source has.

00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:25.340
 Yeah, he's been driven nuts by some rhythmic low thing that he can't.

00:43:25.340 --> 00:43:26.340
 Right.

00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:27.340
 Where is that coming from?

00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:28.340
 Yes.

00:43:28.340 --> 00:43:33.780
 Yeah, I think it's a valid point with the, whoever develops this property, they're going

00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:35.500
 to know that that plan is there.

00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:38.860
 So the city would have some input into that.

00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:40.940
 We'd provide these maps.

00:43:40.940 --> 00:43:44.900
 One issue we've talked about is that this is all theoretical.

00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:47.340
 So this is model data here.

00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:52.300
 After we install the silencers, they may work better, they may work not as well.

00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:56.240
 So we would do this again and this would be, you're right, it's the money.

00:43:56.240 --> 00:43:59.900
 So this part right here was $12,000.

00:43:59.900 --> 00:44:04.620
 So would it be worth it for us to do this after we're done and then have information

00:44:04.620 --> 00:44:11.500
 to provide residents that anybody that comes out there saying, hey, here's what you should

00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:12.500
 expect if you develop this.

00:44:12.500 --> 00:44:13.500
 Sure.

00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:14.500
 I think we'd want to know.

00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:16.580
 We always need to be upfront with where we spend our money.

00:44:16.580 --> 00:44:17.580
 Yes.

00:44:17.580 --> 00:44:18.580
 Transparency is a big deal right now.

00:44:18.580 --> 00:44:19.580
 Exactly.

00:44:19.580 --> 00:44:20.580
 Okay.

00:44:20.580 --> 00:44:21.580
 It is.

00:44:21.580 --> 00:44:24.460
 And you're fairly confident there's not any legislative requirements.

00:44:24.460 --> 00:44:25.460
 There's no statutes.

00:44:25.460 --> 00:44:26.460
 I couldn't find any.

00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:29.860
 State of Texas doesn't say, hey, that just seems odd to me.

00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:32.220
 They regulated every other aspect of it.

00:44:32.220 --> 00:44:35.100
 TCEQ may even have some things out there.

00:44:35.100 --> 00:44:36.100
 I couldn't.

00:44:36.100 --> 00:44:41.020
 Well, no offense to you, but it may be something that may be a lawyer or, you know, like, because

00:44:41.020 --> 00:44:44.660
 if we're going to do a contract with somebody, you would have it reviewed by somebody who

00:44:44.660 --> 00:44:46.780
 could actually say, oh, those are found here.

00:44:46.780 --> 00:44:47.780
 I think we'd have to ask Larry.

00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:48.780
 Yeah.

00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:49.780
 I mean, I don't know.

00:44:49.780 --> 00:44:50.780
 Deputy.

00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:51.780
 Yeah.

00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:52.780
 We've got a permit that's issued.

00:44:52.780 --> 00:44:53.780
 Right.

00:44:53.780 --> 00:44:56.780
 We had, there was a permit.

00:44:56.780 --> 00:44:57.780
 Yeah.

00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:01.820
 Ordinance doesn't cover that particular issue.

00:45:01.820 --> 00:45:02.820
 Okay.

00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:07.700
 So our operating permit is what we're governed by as far as the state goes.

00:45:07.700 --> 00:45:16.500
 And even if our noise ordinances were in conflict with the, the state license is, I would want

00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:24.500
 to look at that closely, because this issue was never really discussed on the plan, from

00:45:24.500 --> 00:45:25.500
 what I recall, when that was going down.

00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:30.500
 I mean, the issue, I don't think it really ever came up on the table.

00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:31.500
 Okay.

00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:32.500
 So we would need.

00:45:32.500 --> 00:45:33.500
 I'm sorry, Larry.

00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:34.500
 Go ahead.

00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:35.500
 No, we'd need to look at that.

00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:39.940
 I know we've got a permit that addresses a lot of the issues that we'd pull in to look

00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:43.860
 at if the noise level was part of it.

00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:44.860
 Okay.

00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:46.900
 And our air permit is not.

00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:47.900
 Yeah.

00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:50.620
 And so I'd be, you know, we're, we're left with our noise ordinance.

00:45:50.620 --> 00:45:54.780
 We're not, you know, you're within the city limits, you're not in the county.

00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:55.780
 So okay.

00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:56.780
 Okay.

00:45:56.780 --> 00:45:57.780
 The noise ordinance is going to look at that.

00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:02.460
 So we might have to take steps as just trying to be the best neighbor we can be rather than

00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:03.460
 using.

00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:04.460
 Right?

00:46:04.460 --> 00:46:05.460
 Correct.

00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:06.460
 That's kind of what we're doing here.

00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:07.460
 We're not following rules necessarily.

00:46:07.460 --> 00:46:08.460
 We're trying our best.

00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:09.460
 We're being a good neighbor.

00:46:09.460 --> 00:46:10.460
 Right.

00:46:10.460 --> 00:46:13.460
 Well, they've got the right of what's called quiet enjoyment of their property.

00:46:13.460 --> 00:46:17.340
 It gets back to what you were talking about earlier, just this incessant droning.

00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:18.340
 Okay.

00:46:18.340 --> 00:46:19.340
 Okay.

00:46:19.340 --> 00:46:22.340
 But that's all in the ear of the beholder.

00:46:22.340 --> 00:46:23.340
 Okay.

00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:24.340
 All right.

00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:25.340
 Thank you.

00:46:25.340 --> 00:46:26.340
 So you need direction.

00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:27.340
 I have one more.

00:46:27.340 --> 00:46:28.340
 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:46:28.340 --> 00:46:34.740
 I think it may be a side issue, but you know, airports try and implement a lot of zoning

00:46:34.740 --> 00:46:42.580
 around our runways to prevent building of things which may interfere with the flight

00:46:42.580 --> 00:46:46.180
 path or may be in a hazard zone off the end of the runways.

00:46:46.180 --> 00:46:50.820
 And I don't know if that's something that we may want to look at for that little piece

00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:52.820
 of property down there.

00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:57.580
 Oh, to the south of the energy center?

00:46:57.580 --> 00:46:58.580
 Yes, sir.

00:46:58.580 --> 00:46:59.580
 Yes, sir.

00:46:59.580 --> 00:47:03.900
 Because even though this noise may be more consistent that we're producing, the airport

00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:06.180
 noise apparently is much louder.

00:47:06.180 --> 00:47:07.180
 Yeah.

00:47:07.180 --> 00:47:12.940
 And so we had some sidebars about noise and sleep and how I like a constant noise.

00:47:12.940 --> 00:47:13.940
 Yeah.

00:47:13.940 --> 00:47:14.940
 Yeah.

00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:18.380
 The spiking would bother me more than the constant noise.

00:47:18.380 --> 00:47:21.380
 I sleep well on the ship.

00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:22.380
 Yeah, me too.

00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:23.380
 Me too.

00:47:23.380 --> 00:47:26.700
 One other thing to bring up here is as you may know, if you've seen the mobility plan

00:47:26.700 --> 00:47:34.700
 for the city of Denton, Loop 288 is going to be right at 400 feet off of the wall.

00:47:34.700 --> 00:47:38.620
 So it kind of cuts through these two gas wells.

00:47:38.620 --> 00:47:42.100
 So additional runway, a larger runway if I understand it.

00:47:42.100 --> 00:47:45.220
 There's going to be some larger planes coming in there.

00:47:45.220 --> 00:47:49.020
 This area, I mean, he has a very nice piece of property.

00:47:49.020 --> 00:47:50.060
 It's very nice.

00:47:50.060 --> 00:47:51.860
 But the industrial part is growing out.

00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:52.860
 Yeah.

00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:53.860
 Tyson Foods right down the road.

00:47:53.860 --> 00:47:54.860
 It's coming in that direction.

00:47:54.860 --> 00:47:56.860
 I see a lot of oil field.

00:47:56.860 --> 00:47:57.860
 Gas wells.

00:47:57.860 --> 00:47:58.860
 Gas wells.

00:47:58.860 --> 00:47:59.860
 Yes, sir.

00:47:59.860 --> 00:48:00.860
 Pretty apparent as well.

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:01.860
 Yes, sir.

00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:02.860
 And they're very loud too.

00:48:02.860 --> 00:48:08.140
 We had to watch that, try to define the frequency they're at so the gas wells, we caught their

00:48:08.140 --> 00:48:09.300
 sound quite a bit as well.

00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:10.300
 Right.

00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:11.300
 And he didn't hold us to that.

00:48:11.300 --> 00:48:12.300
 He understood that.

00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:13.300
 Sure.

00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:14.300
 One more question.

00:48:14.300 --> 00:48:15.300
 Yes, sir.

00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:21.580
 Would Atmos have done this study if they were operating that plant?

00:48:21.580 --> 00:48:22.580
 That's a good question.

00:48:22.580 --> 00:48:23.580
 I think that they would.

00:48:23.580 --> 00:48:27.500
 I think they would find their lawyers and find out whatever that DB limit was going to

00:48:27.500 --> 00:48:32.300
 be acceptable at the property line and that they would stick with that.

00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:33.300
 Yeah.

00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:34.300
 I don't think they would.

00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:39.700
 It's kind of a facetious question, but I mean, that's the beauty of public power too.

00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:41.580
 That's exactly what I was going to say.

00:48:41.580 --> 00:48:44.780
 The beauty of public power is we care about our neighbors.

00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:45.780
 Absolutely.

00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:46.780
 Because they own us.

00:48:46.780 --> 00:48:47.780
 That's right.

00:48:47.780 --> 00:48:51.300
 And again, I have to finish here with the homeowner.

00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:52.340
 He's been very courteous.

00:48:52.340 --> 00:48:53.340
 He understands that.

00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:57.280
 He has an interest in Denton and that's what he wants.

00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:59.460
 So he really appreciates our effort.

00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:01.940
 He knows we've spent some money.

00:49:01.940 --> 00:49:06.980
 I've showed him that $378,000 and he's like, wow, that's a lot of money.

00:49:06.980 --> 00:49:11.340
 So he just wants Larry's--

00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:12.340
 It's not lost, Donald.

00:49:12.340 --> 00:49:13.340
 Yeah.

00:49:13.340 --> 00:49:14.340
 I just wanted to make sure I wasn't beating you guys up.

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:15.340
 No, no, no.

00:49:15.340 --> 00:49:16.340
 Exactly.

00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:17.340
 I just wanted to make sure it was clear on how this happened.

00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:18.340
 Exactly.

00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:19.340
 No, sir.

00:49:19.340 --> 00:49:20.340
 I didn't take it personally.

00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:21.340
 I don't take anything personal with his debt.

00:49:21.340 --> 00:49:22.340
 Okay.

00:49:22.340 --> 00:49:27.340
 Except I had hair when we started this and now it's gone.

00:49:27.340 --> 00:49:29.500
 Full head of curly hair.

00:49:29.500 --> 00:49:30.500
 Yes, ma'am.

00:49:30.500 --> 00:49:31.500
 Yes, ma'am.

00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:34.220
 On this occasion, I'm inclined to support putting the baffles in.

00:49:34.220 --> 00:49:35.220
 Absolutely.

00:49:35.220 --> 00:49:36.980
 It doesn't really make sense to do the birming like you're saying.

00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:37.980
 No, no.

00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:42.660
 It can end up being a good idea but I think we should spend some money putting something

00:49:42.660 --> 00:49:44.660
 in the events there.

00:49:44.660 --> 00:49:45.660
 Okay.

00:49:45.660 --> 00:49:46.660
 I agree.

00:49:46.660 --> 00:49:47.660
 We need to be a good neighbor.

00:49:47.660 --> 00:49:48.660
 Okay.

00:49:48.660 --> 00:49:49.660
 Anybody?

00:49:49.660 --> 00:49:52.980
 I'm in favor of putting the baffles in.

00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:58.700
 I just want to have some further explanation for the public as far as why we didn't have

00:49:58.700 --> 00:49:59.700
 this to begin with.

00:49:59.700 --> 00:50:05.260
 I know you weren't in control of that, Chris, I'm just saying that we need to have further

00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:09.660
 explanation of why we need to have these baffles out there and why they weren't put in in the

00:50:09.660 --> 00:50:10.660
 first place.

00:50:10.660 --> 00:50:11.660
 Okay.

00:50:11.660 --> 00:50:15.860
 If there could at least be some explanation of that.

00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:17.340
 I'll see what I can do on that.

00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:19.780
 Your questioning went way towards that.

00:50:19.780 --> 00:50:20.780
 Yeah.

00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:26.860
 I think it may have been kind of the perspective of the, like the approach of the project at

00:50:26.860 --> 00:50:27.860
 the time.

00:50:27.860 --> 00:50:32.820
 I say that people were saying, well, the plan is at the middle of this piece of property

00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:36.620
 so nobody's even within 200 feet to get a notification.

00:50:36.620 --> 00:50:38.620
 Well, you and me aren't experts at that.

00:50:38.620 --> 00:50:39.620
 We can say that all day long.

00:50:39.620 --> 00:50:46.580
 You know, I'm just saying that that kind of got brought up over and over again but well,

00:50:46.580 --> 00:50:47.580
 here it is.

00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:48.580
 Yes, sir.

00:50:48.580 --> 00:50:51.580
 We've got to deal with it, regardless of what happened in the past.

00:50:51.580 --> 00:50:52.580
 Yes, sir.

00:50:52.580 --> 00:50:53.580
 Do you have what you need?

00:50:53.580 --> 00:50:54.580
 Yes, ma'am, I do.

00:50:54.580 --> 00:50:55.580
 All right.

00:50:55.580 --> 00:50:56.580
 Thank you for your time.

00:50:56.580 --> 00:50:57.580
 Thank you, Chris.

00:50:57.580 --> 00:50:58.580
 All right.

00:50:58.580 --> 00:50:59.580
 All right.

00:50:59.580 --> 00:51:08.500
 Next item, receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding solid waste

00:51:08.500 --> 00:51:13.140
 department's home chemical collection, yard waste and brush collection and bulk waste

00:51:13.140 --> 00:51:18.540
 collection services.

00:51:18.540 --> 00:51:19.540
 Mr. Cox.

00:51:19.540 --> 00:51:21.940
 Good evening, Chair, members of the board.

00:51:21.940 --> 00:51:23.740
 Pleasure to be with you this evening.

00:51:23.740 --> 00:51:25.020
 My name is Ethan Cox.

00:51:25.020 --> 00:51:27.180
 I'm the director of public works for the city.

00:51:27.180 --> 00:51:30.260
 I have a fairly dense presentation for you this evening so I'm going to try to go through

00:51:30.260 --> 00:51:32.260
 it very fast.

00:51:32.260 --> 00:51:35.860
 We've got basically four or five different services that we're going to be looking at

00:51:35.860 --> 00:51:36.860
 this evening.

00:51:36.860 --> 00:51:40.660
 Kind of take you back a year in the time machine.

00:51:40.660 --> 00:51:44.260
 Last summer we had Blue Ridge Services come out and provide essentially a high level overview

00:51:44.260 --> 00:51:46.140
 of all of our operations of solid waste.

00:51:46.140 --> 00:51:48.820
 They had a number of recommendations that they made.

00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:52.780
 Whenever we presented this to council, they wanted us to kind of do a deeper dive on these

00:51:52.780 --> 00:51:55.940
 programs and so this is almost a year later.

00:51:55.940 --> 00:52:00.660
 We're finally finishing this up and so our goal would be to try to get through these

00:52:00.660 --> 00:52:03.340
 last four programs tonight.

00:52:03.340 --> 00:52:07.460
 We feel like these go well together because they are all what we would call additional

00:52:07.460 --> 00:52:12.620
 residential services, above and beyond your typical refuse and recycling.

00:52:12.620 --> 00:52:17.180
 Some of the things we try to do with this, number one, I'll say this at the very front

00:52:17.180 --> 00:52:22.300
 is these are all programs that are very near and dear to a number of our residents' hearts.

00:52:22.300 --> 00:52:25.880
 The participation isn't always there but it's one of those things that you don't know that

00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:30.780
 you would miss it until it's gone so we are not advocating removing any of these programs.

00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:34.060
 What we really try to do is take a novel approach and say are there other options, are there

00:52:34.060 --> 00:52:37.500
 service delivery methods that we could do here.

00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:40.560
 To that end, we do have a few challenges that we've identified.

00:52:40.560 --> 00:52:44.220
 We've benchmarked with a number of cities so I'll kind of give you an overview of that.

00:52:44.220 --> 00:52:47.740
 And then in terms of our recommendations, really what we try to do is if we want to

00:52:47.740 --> 00:52:51.540
 provide options or alternatives, we want to make sure that those maintain a high level

00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:57.260
 of service, that we're improving our efficiency or equity, and also that we're maintaining

00:52:57.260 --> 00:53:03.100
 our commitment to encouraging residents to reduce and reuse as well as recycle.

00:53:03.100 --> 00:53:06.380
 We have some definitions here, I'm not really going to go through those but we may refer

00:53:06.380 --> 00:53:08.660
 back to it if you have a question.

00:53:08.660 --> 00:53:12.540
 So again, these are the operations we're taking a look at.

00:53:12.540 --> 00:53:17.060
 In terms of objectives, I think the objective for all these operations or all these services

00:53:17.060 --> 00:53:21.780
 is really to ensure the proper handling, diversion and disposal of some of our harder to handle

00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:23.460
 items.

00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:27.220
 Compliance certainly comes into play here as well as making sure that we're being effective

00:53:27.220 --> 00:53:29.700
 and handling these things efficiently.

00:53:29.700 --> 00:53:33.260
 We talk about efficiency, it's not just dollars and cents, it's a number of impacts that we're

00:53:33.260 --> 00:53:36.900
 having on the community which I'll dive into in just a moment.

00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.260
 The purposes for some of these programs vary.

00:53:39.260 --> 00:53:43.780
 Home chemical collections, for instance, that's actually a federal storm water permit requirement

00:53:43.780 --> 00:53:46.420
 so we must have a program of some sort.

00:53:46.420 --> 00:53:50.620
 The service must be delivered in some manner but ultimately that also not only diverts

00:53:50.620 --> 00:53:54.580
 hazardous materials away from the waterways but also the landfill.

00:53:54.580 --> 00:53:57.860
 Electronics and appliances, those too can contain some hazardous components so we want

00:53:57.860 --> 00:54:02.220
 to make sure those are recycled and handled properly when they're disposed.

00:54:02.220 --> 00:54:05.700
 Bulky items, typically those are items that are too big to fit in your residential trash

00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:10.260
 cart and so what most communities find if you don't provide for a service on that it

00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:14.400
 ends up on the side of the road somewhere, illegally dumped and so it's a critical service

00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:15.940
 that we provide.

00:54:15.940 --> 00:54:20.140
 And then yard waste and brush, we divert all of that waste out of the landfill that actually

00:54:20.140 --> 00:54:25.860
 serves as feedstock for our dino-dirt products which is a great program.

00:54:25.860 --> 00:54:30.820
 In terms of residential collections, we do run collections Monday through Thursday.

00:54:30.820 --> 00:54:35.740
 Essentially the city is divided up into quadrants so this little red section here to the northwest

00:54:35.740 --> 00:54:43.020
 of town, that's our Monday segment, Tuesday is down to the south, Wednesday and then Thursday.

00:54:43.020 --> 00:54:47.420
 Whenever we deploy to a segment of town we basically run in tow with about 29 vehicles,

00:54:47.420 --> 00:54:52.940
 25 of which are heavy pieces of equipment and then 39 pieces of personnel, not pieces

00:54:52.940 --> 00:54:55.980
 of personnel, people, 39 people.

00:54:55.980 --> 00:55:00.500
 They're all whole, they're not pieces.

00:55:00.500 --> 00:55:05.900
 And so whenever we do deploy and we wanted to try to put this in a perspective is, so

00:55:05.900 --> 00:55:09.220
 we used to live in Denton, my son always, it was a treat to see the trash man coming

00:55:09.220 --> 00:55:12.100
 down the street so he'd go out there and greet them, in some cases he's out there greeting

00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:17.500
 multiple times and so kind of the street side view is you can see up to nine vehicles coming

00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:19.540
 down your street on any given day.

00:55:19.540 --> 00:55:23.860
 So when we talk about efficiencies on programs it's not just the cost of providing that service,

00:55:23.860 --> 00:55:27.940
 it's also wear and tear on the roads, wear and tear on the equipment as well as the emissions

00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:28.940
 of all these vehicles.

00:55:28.940 --> 00:55:33.380
 So your standard refuse truck that most everyone's accustomed to seeing, that's your automated

00:55:33.380 --> 00:55:36.620
 side load, that's your refuse and your recycling.

00:55:36.620 --> 00:55:42.420
 For bulk items we use two apparatuses, one is a rear load truck right here, the other

00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:45.480
 one is a claw truck or known as a knuckle boom.

00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:49.060
 We use the same type of equipment for yard waste and brush.

00:55:49.060 --> 00:55:52.780
 You also have your home chemical collections, electronics, appliances, we use a stake bed

00:55:52.780 --> 00:55:53.780
 truck for that.

00:55:53.780 --> 00:55:58.300
 For car delivery we use a box truck and then for supervisors and crew leaders we're using

00:55:58.300 --> 00:56:03.460
 pickup trucks and so nine trucks and all is typically what you would see go up and down

00:56:03.460 --> 00:56:04.460
 every street.

00:56:04.460 --> 00:56:11.220
 In terms of participation we don't see everyone using these programs to the fullest extent.

00:56:11.220 --> 00:56:14.380
 That's a concern or at least something that we want to investigate because everyone does

00:56:14.380 --> 00:56:18.680
 pay for at least a portion of these programs, essentially it's being subsidized through

00:56:18.680 --> 00:56:20.980
 the residential rate set.

00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:25.260
 In terms of average daily participation for '17-'18 we have about 8,300 homes that we

00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:27.580
 can service on any given day.

00:56:27.580 --> 00:56:30.620
 Of that you see varying levels of participation.

00:56:30.620 --> 00:56:36.300
 Waste and recycling, those are 82% participation and 67% respectively, we have pretty high

00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:38.620
 participation rates there.

00:56:38.620 --> 00:56:43.180
 Yard waste is about 7% participation, one of the things on note here is that tonnage

00:56:43.180 --> 00:56:44.300
 is very high though.

00:56:44.300 --> 00:56:48.980
 You may have a smaller subset of folks participating but that's dense material and the folks that

00:56:48.980 --> 00:56:52.460
 use the program use it to a great extent.

00:56:52.460 --> 00:56:56.200
 You get down to the bulky items, ACC and electronics and appliances you're looking at, about less

00:56:56.200 --> 00:56:59.100
 than 1% participation on each of those on a daily basis.

00:56:59.100 --> 00:57:04.400
 So we feel like there are some opportunities for some consolidation here as well as maybe

00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:07.660
 some novel approaches to how we provide these services.

00:57:07.660 --> 00:57:12.340
 Over here is the tonnages for '17-'18 as well as the net cost and as we go through

00:57:12.340 --> 00:57:16.620
 the presentation we'll cut the net cost by participation to kind of give you a better

00:57:16.620 --> 00:57:20.740
 sense of what it costs per user.

00:57:20.740 --> 00:57:24.100
 In terms of opportunities for improvement we mentioned the collection efficiency, I'm

00:57:24.100 --> 00:57:26.280
 not going to belabor that.

00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:31.420
 In terms of improving equity because these are basically shared rates, subsidized rates,

00:57:31.420 --> 00:57:36.260
 we do have heavy users versus the low to no users and so in other words some folks are

00:57:36.260 --> 00:57:39.840
 paying for these programs and not using them at all.

00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:43.580
 For some of the folks it is high cost and low participation that means even if there's

00:57:43.580 --> 00:57:48.360
 a fee being assessed the remainder is being assessed via the residential rates.

00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:53.380
 As for lawn service, tree trimmers, we do see some commercial entities taking advantage

00:57:53.380 --> 00:57:58.380
 of us, our rates are lower than they are so they'll go in, trim up a tree and encourage

00:57:58.380 --> 00:58:03.060
 the resident hey you can pay for this via curbside collection versus us charging you

00:58:03.060 --> 00:58:07.460
 a little bit extra and so that's something that we just need to be cognizant of when

00:58:07.460 --> 00:58:12.180
 we set our rates and look at how we structure our program.

00:58:12.180 --> 00:58:15.740
 There are some safety and environmental concerns that we also want to put out there, chemicals

00:58:15.740 --> 00:58:20.700
 right now doing a curbside collection, those are exposed to the elements as well as members

00:58:20.700 --> 00:58:25.740
 of the public, spray paint is particularly troublesome for some of the customers of our

00:58:25.740 --> 00:58:29.300
 program, they don't feel comfortable setting that out on the stoop.

00:58:29.300 --> 00:58:33.380
 We do have some injury risk for our staff members, particularly for our yard waste crews,

00:58:33.380 --> 00:58:38.220
 it's very manual in nature, it's about a 20% injury incident rate on an annual basis

00:58:38.220 --> 00:58:42.380
 for them doing a lot of heavy lifting and then we have some plastic bags associated

00:58:42.380 --> 00:58:44.380
 with our yard waste too.

00:58:44.380 --> 00:58:49.460
 So a few things, we'll just kind of give you some visuals of these, again chemicals

00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:55.380
 and appliances, very few users, smaller volumes, we do want to have volume restrictions here

00:58:55.380 --> 00:59:00.420
 to prevent abuses by commercial entities, we're not licensed to accept commercial chemicals,

00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:03.220
 we can only accept residential chemicals.

00:59:03.220 --> 00:59:06.280
 Aren't chemicals supposed to be in a box?

00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:07.280
 We would certainly prefer that.

00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:10.220
 I thought it was a requirement but okay.

00:59:10.220 --> 00:59:14.420
 We would certainly prefer that, so like in this picture right here you have some light

00:59:14.420 --> 00:59:20.720
 bulbs, all this is in the storm water area so if it starts raining someone runs over

00:59:20.720 --> 00:59:24.420
 those bulbs, now we've basically defeated one of the biggest purposes of the program

00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:29.180
 and so ideally what we would have is some way of containerizing this which we encourage

00:59:29.180 --> 00:59:34.540
 folks to do but it's not uncommon for us to drive up and see them in this state.

00:59:34.540 --> 00:59:38.260
 In terms of the electronics and appliances, one of the things, one of the reasons why

00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:43.140
 we may be seeing low participation is there are a lot of retail take back options now,

00:59:43.140 --> 00:59:47.320
 recycling options, you buy a new refrigerator, Lowe's delivers the new one to your house,

00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:51.300
 they take the old one away for you and so this service may not be as critical as it

00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:56.780
 was five or ten years ago but again we still see about eight or ten folks per day use that.

00:59:56.780 --> 01:00:00.340
 One of the things, if this was a working microwave we would obviously want someone to try to

01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:02.420
 reuse that if they can.

01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:08.420
 In addition, in terms of providing the collection service, I think really what we would encourage

01:00:08.420 --> 01:00:12.100
 folks to do is bring that out to us and drop it off if you can and our rate structure should

01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:15.860
 reflect that is really you're paying for the convenience of us coming by your house to

01:00:15.860 --> 01:00:21.260
 pick it up and so I think there's some opportunities there too.

01:00:21.260 --> 01:00:25.200
 Collection frequency, again this is Monday through Thursday, every day of the week.

01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:30.060
 These are scheduled collections so we are going to point to point with a purpose there.

01:00:30.060 --> 01:00:31.900
 Here's our restrictions.

01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:37.340
 In terms of fees and rate impact, HCC is bundled in with the monthly bill.

01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:40.340
 The cost per collection runs about $254.

01:00:40.340 --> 01:00:45.240
 This is one of our more expensive programs, less utilization.

01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:48.220
 Because it's bundled with the monthly bill that means every customer, every residential

01:00:48.220 --> 01:00:52.540
 customer pays just under $2 a month for the service.

01:00:52.540 --> 01:00:54.500
 Over here we have our benchmark.

01:00:54.500 --> 01:00:58.500
 Essentially what we wanted to benchmark against is again the frequency of service, how the

01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:02.420
 rates are structured and then we have some notes in terms of differences and how these

01:01:02.420 --> 01:01:04.600
 programs are carried out.

01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:07.460
 Where you see red font that just means that that city is doing it a little bit different

01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:09.460
 than us.

01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:14.780
 Usually about 50/50 most folks are doing either drop-off centers and/or drop-off events as

01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:17.220
 opposed to curbside collection.

01:01:17.220 --> 01:01:20.980
 For those that are doing curbside collection, most of these are bundled services with a

01:01:20.980 --> 01:01:23.740
 third-party hauler.

01:01:23.740 --> 01:01:28.260
 In terms of rate structure, there are some that assess a fee but there are also others

01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:32.340
 that bundle that in as a service as well.

01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:35.780
 Electronics and appliances, we do have a fee that we charge for this.

01:01:35.780 --> 01:01:38.020
 It's a $20 fee for collection.

01:01:38.020 --> 01:01:39.980
 The cost to deliver the service is actually $40.

01:01:39.980 --> 01:01:43.700
 So this is one of those instances where our rate is just under recovering.

01:01:43.700 --> 01:01:49.880
 So the subsidization on the monthly bill is about $0.16 per month for a resident.

01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:55.420
 In terms of frequency, most of these services here, you'll notice in the notes column,

01:01:55.420 --> 01:01:58.380
 most of them are not providing electronics collection.

01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:02.900
 Two reasons that we can surmise on that, number one electronics nowadays, you can carry it

01:02:02.900 --> 01:02:03.900
 on your own.

01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:08.620
 It maybe fits in the back of a pickup truck, a car, so it's not as challenging as maybe

01:02:08.620 --> 01:02:09.620
 a large appliance.

01:02:09.620 --> 01:02:13.700
 But then also you have that retail take-back option.

01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:17.180
 In terms of frequency, what we're looking at here is mostly appliances.

01:02:17.180 --> 01:02:21.620
 You have some monthly and semi-monthly but you also have a fair amount of weekly collections.

01:02:21.620 --> 01:02:25.460
 And then we do have a few cities that are bundling this as opposed to that per item

01:02:25.460 --> 01:02:26.460
 charge.

01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:33.240
 Moving on to some of the challenges we're seeing with bulk waste, the biggest challenge

01:02:33.240 --> 01:02:37.580
 we have is the definitions that we have for bulk waste are very vague and it leads to

01:02:37.580 --> 01:02:39.220
 what you see in these pictures here.

01:02:39.220 --> 01:02:43.820
 One of the things that we often get questions on is, well, is a door bulk waste?

01:02:43.820 --> 01:02:47.900
 Well, technically that's construction and demolition, but we can handle one door.

01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:50.300
 We can't handle 16 doors.

01:02:50.300 --> 01:02:53.700
 So there are some nuances here.

01:02:53.700 --> 01:02:56.960
 What you see in these photos here, obviously you have fence panels and a large amount of

01:02:56.960 --> 01:02:58.400
 construction debris.

01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:03.100
 We would much prefer that to be either delivered to us or us at a roll-off container to deal

01:03:03.100 --> 01:03:04.580
 with that.

01:03:04.580 --> 01:03:11.020
 Wood waste is one thing, but we also see folks set out tile, granite, things like that that

01:03:11.020 --> 01:03:13.460
 can actually damage our equipment when we try to lift it.

01:03:13.460 --> 01:03:16.940
 And so we do feel like there needs to be a distinction in our ordinance about what is

01:03:16.940 --> 01:03:19.040
 bulk and what is not.

01:03:19.040 --> 01:03:20.820
 We also have confusing volume restrictions.

01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:25.620
 It's based on a cubic yard basis and so I would ask you what your definition of a cubic

01:03:25.620 --> 01:03:29.980
 yard is, but I know we'll get seven different answers or five different answers.

01:03:29.980 --> 01:03:34.340
 We have this little graphic back here is we can either give you the dimensions and have

01:03:34.340 --> 01:03:39.180
 you do the math yourself or we can tell you it's about the size of a washing machine.

01:03:39.180 --> 01:03:40.740
 And that's worked for a little while.

01:03:40.740 --> 01:03:43.740
 I was actually looking at a website earlier today and they said, "Well, we'll allow up

01:03:43.740 --> 01:03:47.320
 to the size of a Volkswagen bug," is what one of the programs describes.

01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:49.780
 So I don't know if we're that generous.

01:03:49.780 --> 01:03:53.560
 I haven't done a measurement on a Volkswagen bug in a while.

01:03:53.560 --> 01:03:56.940
 So there are confusing volume restrictions that we think we could get a little bit easier

01:03:56.940 --> 01:03:59.520
 to explain, a little bit more precise.

01:03:59.520 --> 01:04:02.600
 We again have heavy users versus low users.

01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:07.100
 And also when it comes to some of this kind of stuff, there's also reuse opportunities.

01:04:07.100 --> 01:04:12.900
 We much prefer to direct these citizens to Goodwill, Salvation Army, some of those places.

01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:20.500
 This is good usable furniture here and so in terms of benchmark, we are fairly similar

01:04:20.500 --> 01:04:22.980
 to most of the other programs over here.

01:04:22.980 --> 01:04:26.400
 I think frequency is where you see the biggest difference.

01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:30.260
 We talked about our restrictions in terms of cost.

01:04:30.260 --> 01:04:34.900
 The cost per collection is about $58 per collection, which is about a dollar per month.

01:04:34.900 --> 01:04:39.420
 But we do feel like this is a critical program that we would not want to start changing with

01:04:39.420 --> 01:04:43.380
 too much simply because of that illegal dumping component.

01:04:43.380 --> 01:04:47.100
 In terms of the restrictions, one city that we really like how they do their restrictions

01:04:47.100 --> 01:04:48.100
 is Frisco.

01:04:48.100 --> 01:04:50.980
 Instead of the cubic yards, they do it based on an item limit.

01:04:50.980 --> 01:04:53.700
 It's much easier to explain, much easier to understand.

01:04:53.700 --> 01:04:55.940
 I'm not saying there won't be confusion there.

01:04:55.940 --> 01:05:00.340
 I think one of the points the COE brought up is, well, do you count the drawers in the

01:05:00.340 --> 01:05:03.220
 chest of drawers as one item or six or seven items?

01:05:03.220 --> 01:05:04.540
 Oh, just put the drawers back in there.

01:05:04.540 --> 01:05:05.540
 Just put the drawers back in.

01:05:05.540 --> 01:05:06.540
 It's one item.

01:05:06.540 --> 01:05:07.540
 We're fine.

01:05:07.540 --> 01:05:10.380
 Same thing you run into at the grocery store.

01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:12.540
 Is that 15 items or is that 10 items?

01:05:12.540 --> 01:05:18.860
 Cram them all in there, you know, that's what we recommend.

01:05:18.860 --> 01:05:24.220
 So yard waste and brush is probably our most inefficient collection operation that we run.

01:05:24.220 --> 01:05:29.820
 The biggest reason why is we run up and down every street, bird dogging, yard waste and

01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:32.180
 a bulk brush collection.

01:05:32.180 --> 01:05:36.320
 The way I explained it to the COE is it's like going into Walmart knowing you need three

01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:40.340
 items and going up and down every aisle looking at every shelf.

01:05:40.340 --> 01:05:43.300
 You'll still get your items at the end of the day, but you probably spend about three

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:47.420
 hours as opposed to the 15 minutes that if you went in with a purpose.

01:05:47.420 --> 01:05:51.340
 That being said, we understand that any change to this program is going to affect some folks

01:05:51.340 --> 01:05:54.460
 in our community that they're going to be pretty passionate about.

01:05:54.460 --> 01:05:56.540
 We also have the heavy users versus low users.

01:05:56.540 --> 01:05:59.300
 This has a cubic yardage limit.

01:05:59.300 --> 01:06:04.300
 So we provide four cubic yards for free, $7 per cubic yard over that.

01:06:04.300 --> 01:06:07.700
 So about half of this right here in these bags would meet the limit.

01:06:07.700 --> 01:06:12.740
 It would be $7 times four for the rest of that, so about a $28 collection above and

01:06:12.740 --> 01:06:15.260
 beyond standard collection here.

01:06:15.260 --> 01:06:18.540
 We talked about the plastic bags not being environmentally friendly.

01:06:18.540 --> 01:06:23.540
 They also mask what is in that bag, so our guys go to tear it open, and not often, but

01:06:23.540 --> 01:06:26.100
 sometimes there are surprises in there.

01:06:26.100 --> 01:06:29.860
 They do get puncture wounds sometimes from the limbs.

01:06:29.860 --> 01:06:33.180
 We talked about the abuse by commercial landscapers and tree trimmers.

01:06:33.180 --> 01:06:35.380
 This picture here actually has a story with it.

01:06:35.380 --> 01:06:41.180
 This is an elderly lady that she paid a commercial tree trimmer to come in and trim her trees.

01:06:41.180 --> 01:06:43.940
 They got to the end of the job and she said, "Okay, well, I thought you were going to haul

01:06:43.940 --> 01:06:44.940
 it off."

01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:45.940
 And they said, "Well, don't worry about it.

01:06:45.940 --> 01:06:46.940
 The city provides that service.

01:06:46.940 --> 01:06:48.660
 It's in your collection day."

01:06:48.660 --> 01:06:50.220
 She took them at their word.

01:06:50.220 --> 01:06:55.860
 Our staff comes out using these restrictions right here in this fee, $7 per cubic yard

01:06:55.860 --> 01:06:57.160
 in excess.

01:06:57.160 --> 01:07:01.060
 Her bill, Tina, correct me on this, was it $600 or closer to $900?

01:07:01.060 --> 01:07:05.500
 It was going to be close to $900.

01:07:05.500 --> 01:07:11.220
 And so that's Exhibit A for how broken our rate structure is, and also how some folks

01:07:11.220 --> 01:07:15.740
 are getting caught with this whenever they're not paying attention to what they're actually

01:07:15.740 --> 01:07:16.740
 paying for.

01:07:16.740 --> 01:07:18.420
 So we feel like that needs to be corrected.

01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:22.380
 Ultimately, I think we had three or four guys go up there and clean it up in about an hour

01:07:22.380 --> 01:07:24.060
 and got it taken care of for it.

01:07:24.060 --> 01:07:27.940
 But again, when we talk about a rate structure or restrictions that aren't working, I think

01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:31.860
 this is Exhibit A.

01:07:31.860 --> 01:07:36.100
 So again, unscheduled is the biggest inefficiency that we have here.

01:07:36.100 --> 01:07:41.180
 The restrictions we talked about, this is bundled with the monthly bill.

01:07:41.180 --> 01:07:45.380
 Cost is about $20 per collection, but this is right there on par with what you would

01:07:45.380 --> 01:07:48.160
 pay for refuse from recycling service.

01:07:48.160 --> 01:07:52.300
 So when we say that there's some opportunities for efficiency here, we do think we can be

01:07:52.300 --> 01:07:55.780
 a bit more equitable about how we structure our rate and also be a bit more purposeful

01:07:55.780 --> 01:07:57.660
 in terms of how we run the routes.

01:07:57.660 --> 01:08:02.260
 Now, when you have an electrical item, because we haven't done it for a couple years now,

01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:07.260
 we call you and tell you that I have this item that I need you to pick up.

01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:08.260
 Correct.

01:08:08.260 --> 01:08:11.060
 Can we do that with yard waste?

01:08:11.060 --> 01:08:15.140
 Yard waste, what you see over here, and this is not brush, I have a few notes on brush

01:08:15.140 --> 01:08:16.140
 over here.

01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:20.820
 For brush, the answer is absolutely that's what we would recommend is brush is an infrequent

01:08:20.820 --> 01:08:21.820
 thing.

01:08:21.820 --> 01:08:25.820
 If you're generating brush every week, something's wrong, at least high volumes of brush like

01:08:25.820 --> 01:08:27.540
 you're seeing here.

01:08:27.540 --> 01:08:32.300
 Yard waste, especially during growing season, you see a more regular accumulation of that.

01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:35.900
 To that end, you see most of these cities are doing this weekly.

01:08:35.900 --> 01:08:41.180
 I think Dallas is the one difference here with monthly, but the difference is in terms

01:08:41.180 --> 01:08:42.420
 of how they're meeting that out.

01:08:42.420 --> 01:08:48.420
 For yard clippings and leaves, these with the asterisk here, they are not allowing plastic

01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:49.420
 bags.

01:08:49.420 --> 01:08:53.340
 One of the reasons is you don't know what's in there, plus the bag is not compostable

01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:54.340
 itself.

01:08:54.340 --> 01:08:59.340
 If we want to compost this, we're adding an extra step in the process that's unnecessary.

01:08:59.340 --> 01:09:03.380
 Fort Worth is actually using a combination of trash bags, or not trash bags, craft bags

01:09:03.380 --> 01:09:04.380
 and carts.

01:09:04.380 --> 01:09:08.020
 On Blue Ridge Services, that's what they recommended when they came in last time.

01:09:08.020 --> 01:09:09.460
 They're from California.

01:09:09.460 --> 01:09:11.540
 They're all using carts out there.

01:09:11.540 --> 01:09:16.260
 There are some capacity concerns with that, but it does make the process much more automated.

01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:20.060
 It does knock down on your worker injuries as well.

01:09:20.060 --> 01:09:24.500
 In terms of brush, we see a wide array of what folks are doing differently here.

01:09:24.500 --> 01:09:27.660
 Austin is only providing semiannual brush collection.

01:09:27.660 --> 01:09:30.260
 Dallas does on demand, but they basically charge it by the job.

01:09:30.260 --> 01:09:34.100
 They do cost plus in terms of setting their rates.

01:09:34.100 --> 01:09:39.720
 The two that we liked in terms of benchmark is Flower Mound does large volumes.

01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:41.820
 Those are billed at an hourly rate.

01:09:41.820 --> 01:09:46.740
 The elderly lady that we went out to help, if our hourly rate was $40 times three guys

01:09:46.740 --> 01:09:52.040
 on the job, $120, and that's probably about what she would pay a commercial tree trimmer

01:09:52.040 --> 01:09:53.040
 to collect.

01:09:53.040 --> 01:09:55.380
 I think we did a benchmark for tree trimmers in the area.

01:09:55.380 --> 01:10:00.460
 Tina, do you recall kind of where their rates were?

01:10:00.460 --> 01:10:04.020
 Right around $40, $45 for the labor.

01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:05.900
 The other one, Plano is doing something similar.

01:10:05.900 --> 01:10:09.420
 If the collection takes longer than 15 minutes, then they charge an hourly rate.

01:10:09.420 --> 01:10:13.000
 Can I ask you a quick question?

01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:21.420
 This particular collection has to do with our Dino Dirt project as well.

01:10:21.420 --> 01:10:27.540
 Does it still cost us $20 per collection, even though we're turning it into a commodity

01:10:27.540 --> 01:10:28.980
 and then selling it?

01:10:28.980 --> 01:10:32.380
 My understanding on the Dino Dirt is that they're breaking even.

01:10:32.380 --> 01:10:36.780
 They do not incur all the cost associated with the collection.

01:10:36.780 --> 01:10:41.140
 Do we get revenue sharing out of that program, Tina?

01:10:41.140 --> 01:10:48.500
 We get a reimbursement for the administrative fee for causing the scales, so the transaction

01:10:48.500 --> 01:10:49.500
 will be for that.

01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:50.900
 There's two different pieces to this.

01:10:50.900 --> 01:10:54.120
 What we're talking about today is a collections piece.

01:10:54.120 --> 01:10:57.360
 That's about a third of the feedstock for the Dino Dirt operation.

01:10:57.360 --> 01:11:01.220
 The other two-thirds is actually commercial operations crossing the scales.

01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:06.300
 What Tina's talking about is $6 per trip across the scales is our revenue share on

01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:07.300
 that.

01:11:07.300 --> 01:11:12.500
 So what you're seeing here is the burden for the rate payer that's actually putting

01:11:12.500 --> 01:11:13.940
 that feedstock into that program.

01:11:13.940 --> 01:11:15.940
 Does that make sense?

01:11:15.940 --> 01:11:16.940
 Yes.

01:11:16.940 --> 01:11:17.940
 Yes.

01:11:17.940 --> 01:11:23.460
 I bet some people, myself included, would appreciate that being clearer somehow, since

01:11:23.460 --> 01:11:31.620
 you were paying to have something taken away that then maybe it's not solid waste, but

01:11:31.620 --> 01:11:34.700
 the city then is selling.

01:11:34.700 --> 01:11:41.780
 So it seems like it would be nice to see, like, are we paying less than other communities

01:11:41.780 --> 01:11:43.780
 who don't turn it into Dino Dirt?

01:11:43.780 --> 01:11:47.380
 Are we paying more than other communities, you see what I'm saying?

01:11:47.380 --> 01:11:51.460
 In general, some communities don't provide this type of service, but in general, I think

01:11:51.460 --> 01:11:56.920
 our residential rates are higher because the levels of service that we provide are greater.

01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:00.860
 We have a long-term goal, or a lot of other places don't, our long-term goal is to save

01:12:00.860 --> 01:12:05.020
 space in our landfills, so therefore we are paying for that somewhat.

01:12:05.020 --> 01:12:06.020
 Right.

01:12:06.020 --> 01:12:10.700
 One of the things that we are working on, to council's request, is a commercial food

01:12:10.700 --> 01:12:16.380
 diversion program, that that definitely pulls in all of this in terms of the analysis, and

01:12:16.380 --> 01:12:21.700
 so we've already had some discussions internally about just kind of vetting out the full system

01:12:21.700 --> 01:12:25.860
 economics of, okay, how's Dino Dirt working, how's our collection working, who's paying

01:12:25.860 --> 01:12:29.540
 for what, and kind of taking another look at this.

01:12:29.540 --> 01:12:36.220
 Kind of anecdotally, my understanding is that they don't have enough feedstock, i.e., brush

01:12:36.220 --> 01:12:40.260
 and yard waste, to deal with everything they're trying to compost over there from a biosolids

01:12:40.260 --> 01:12:46.060
 standpoint, and so with that being the case, we would actually need to be selling more

01:12:46.060 --> 01:12:50.260
 product and pushing it out the door in order for this to come down.

01:12:50.260 --> 01:12:58.860
 Something we can take a look at and bring back to you when we do that next analysis.

01:12:58.860 --> 01:13:03.320
 So what we have here is basically a table of, you know, we looked at the challenges,

01:13:03.320 --> 01:13:07.700
 we looked at some novel approaches to this, and so kind of the same way we ran the benchmark,

01:13:07.700 --> 01:13:10.020
 I'll kind of go through these one by one.

01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:14.760
 The red font is basically if we wanted to make a change or approach an alternative service

01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:18.740
 delivery option, this is what we as staff would recommend.

01:13:18.740 --> 01:13:22.540
 Understand that there's nothing pressing us to make a change to the programs.

01:13:22.540 --> 01:13:26.220
 We wanted to have this discussion with PB and council, number one, to close the loop

01:13:26.220 --> 01:13:30.380
 on Blue Ridge's recommendations, but also it is budget time, so if we're going to make

01:13:30.380 --> 01:13:35.100
 changes to these programs, we'd definitely like to incorporate that into our budget and

01:13:35.100 --> 01:13:38.020
 our rate structure for next year.

01:13:38.020 --> 01:13:41.340
 As for home chemical collection, the service model that most others are using is drop-off

01:13:41.340 --> 01:13:43.720
 service and collection events.

01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:47.280
 If we were to approach something like that, we would recommend remaining as a bundled

01:13:47.280 --> 01:13:49.340
 service in the rate structure.

01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:52.680
 That would allow us, how we would basically push that out is having weekly or monthly

01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:54.320
 collection events.

01:13:54.320 --> 01:14:00.060
 We could bundle that with other services, such as recycling and other types of collections,

01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:01.060
 appliances, electronics.

01:14:01.060 --> 01:14:05.500
 One of the things that we look at in our home chemical collection, we do a drop-off service

01:14:05.500 --> 01:14:09.020
 there now, but we're open Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 p.m.

01:14:09.020 --> 01:14:13.140
 It's convenient for our staff, it's not convenient when you're cleaning out your garage.

01:14:13.140 --> 01:14:18.100
 So if we do move to that model, we would recommend changing for weekend hours to really target

01:14:18.100 --> 01:14:21.700
 the folks when they're cleaning out their garage and moving out.

01:14:21.700 --> 01:14:24.180
 We could also expand the program to accept regional waste.

01:14:24.180 --> 01:14:29.540
 That would introduce a revenue stream into the program, help offset some of those costs.

01:14:29.540 --> 01:14:31.660
 We've talked about that before.

01:14:31.660 --> 01:14:36.180
 We're just now getting to a point in our operation where we feel like we could support that.

01:14:36.180 --> 01:14:38.460
 What does regional waste mean?

01:14:38.460 --> 01:14:42.700
 So in terms of home chemical collections, we could accept waste from others in Denton

01:14:42.700 --> 01:14:43.840
 County.

01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:47.620
 We do get approached by a number of cities, residents from those cities that basically

01:14:47.620 --> 01:14:50.420
 come up and, "Hey, I got a can of paint, will you guys take it?"

01:14:50.420 --> 01:14:53.700
 Well, the answer right now is no, because we really don't have a fee to recover the

01:14:53.700 --> 01:14:56.340
 cost for them bringing it to us.

01:14:56.340 --> 01:15:01.140
 So the regional program, we would partner with those cities and/or run a cash collection

01:15:01.140 --> 01:15:03.620
 operation for the acceptance of that waste.

01:15:03.620 --> 01:15:05.580
 It would still just be residential?

01:15:05.580 --> 01:15:06.580
 Correct.

01:15:06.580 --> 01:15:07.940
 We cannot take commercial.

01:15:07.940 --> 01:15:12.620
 We cannot take commercial, and that's why for programs like this, you do have some limitations

01:15:12.620 --> 01:15:14.540
 or some volume limits.

01:15:14.540 --> 01:15:19.900
 If not, you definitely want to check residents' driver's license, where are you coming from,

01:15:19.900 --> 01:15:24.220
 and we log that to make sure you're not coming by every day kind of metering out your commercial

01:15:24.220 --> 01:15:27.500
 waste.

01:15:27.500 --> 01:15:32.160
 In terms of electronic appliances, what we're seeing with others is really discontinuing

01:15:32.160 --> 01:15:34.620
 the collection, especially for electronics.

01:15:34.620 --> 01:15:37.900
 If we don't want to do that, if we want to keep that here, you also have the option of

01:15:37.900 --> 01:15:40.460
 increasing the fee to fully cost recover.

01:15:40.460 --> 01:15:45.100
 This is a small subsidy on the residential bill, but it is one that may be unnecessary

01:15:45.100 --> 01:15:48.180
 if we take one of those two steps there.

01:15:48.180 --> 01:15:52.860
 Either way, we do want to continue to promote donation centers and retail take back programs.

01:15:52.860 --> 01:15:58.380
 We prefer to be the recycler of last resort and not incur those costs if we could.

01:15:58.380 --> 01:16:00.940
 Bulk waste, we really don't recommend many changes here.

01:16:00.940 --> 01:16:02.780
 Again, we feel that that's a critical service.

01:16:02.780 --> 01:16:06.820
 One of the things that we have had a request for is to introduce commercial bulk collection

01:16:06.820 --> 01:16:10.900
 to help knock down some of the illegal dumping our businesses are seeing.

01:16:10.900 --> 01:16:14.620
 So we can certainly build that into the rate structure.

01:16:14.620 --> 01:16:17.580
 Like I mentioned earlier, we would do want to revise the restrictions, make it a per

01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:21.740
 item versus a per cubic yard basis, simplify that.

01:16:21.740 --> 01:16:26.420
 In terms of brush, the recommendation we have here is do get that to a scheduled service

01:16:26.420 --> 01:16:31.100
 so that we are being more purposeful and more efficient, as well as revising those restrictions

01:16:31.100 --> 01:16:33.420
 in the rate structure.

01:16:33.420 --> 01:16:38.500
 The last one we have here is probably the most radical option or recommendation.

01:16:38.500 --> 01:16:41.680
 Yard waste versus going up and down every street, we would make that a subscription

01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:42.680
 service.

01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:46.740
 And I think the knee-jerk reaction when we introduce this to COE is, well, folks will

01:16:46.740 --> 01:16:47.740
 just put it in the trash.

01:16:47.740 --> 01:16:50.460
 And I understand that thought process.

01:16:50.460 --> 01:16:54.540
 I think for where we are coming from on this, it doesn't have to be a big fee.

01:16:54.540 --> 01:16:57.500
 The fee is beside the point, it's opting in and opting out.

01:16:57.500 --> 01:17:00.460
 The program is really what we are looking for.

01:17:00.460 --> 01:17:04.300
 What that allows us to do is put a pin in a map and say we are going here today versus

01:17:04.300 --> 01:17:09.020
 we are driving up and down these six streets trying to find that point.

01:17:09.020 --> 01:17:11.880
 It also allows folks to opt in and out on a seasonal basis.

01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:16.500
 So if you are not going to use it in the non-growing season, then save yourself a dollar, opt out,

01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:19.260
 and our route just got that much more efficient.

01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:22.780
 A couple of different ways we could approach that, and this can be bundled with it.

01:17:22.780 --> 01:17:24.700
 It can be mutually exclusive of it.

01:17:24.700 --> 01:17:29.180
 If we want to get away from the plastic bags, we would recommend either doing carts and/or

01:17:29.180 --> 01:17:30.180
 craft bags.

01:17:30.180 --> 01:17:32.320
 A combination of both is fine.

01:17:32.320 --> 01:17:37.060
 If we do move to carts, one of the things we have heard, again, as kind of a policy

01:17:37.060 --> 01:17:40.300
 priority is food waste diversion.

01:17:40.300 --> 01:17:45.380
 In our current composting program, we can accept pre-consumer vegetative food waste.

01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:49.220
 That's the stalk of celery you thought you would eat, but you decided you didn't really

01:17:49.220 --> 01:17:50.220
 want to.

01:17:50.220 --> 01:17:51.220
 The banana peels.

01:17:51.220 --> 01:17:54.260
 You can put that in your yard waste cart, and we can accept that in our current composting

01:17:54.260 --> 01:17:55.260
 program.

01:17:55.260 --> 01:17:58.020
 I actually like that a lot.

01:17:58.020 --> 01:18:02.080
 We think there are some benefits here, but this is going to require some behavior change

01:18:02.080 --> 01:18:05.820
 that I think we are going to get some community pushback on, and it's going to require an

01:18:05.820 --> 01:18:09.420
 education effort on our part to get folks on board.

01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:13.780
 We do think that solves multiple challenges and also opens up some doors for some other

01:18:13.780 --> 01:18:16.420
 things that we could do as well.

01:18:16.420 --> 01:18:17.540
 We took it to COE.

01:18:17.540 --> 01:18:19.460
 They did buy into a few of these.

01:18:19.460 --> 01:18:20.460
 It's probably about 50/50.

01:18:20.460 --> 01:18:25.140
 One of the things they recommended that wasn't on here is for these service requests, it

01:18:25.140 --> 01:18:28.820
 really needs to be electronic, able to do it on the website, able to do it on your mobile

01:18:28.820 --> 01:18:29.820
 app.

01:18:29.820 --> 01:18:30.820
 We agree.

01:18:30.820 --> 01:18:34.300
 We do have a new system coming online, hopefully in the next couple of years that we'll meet

01:18:34.300 --> 01:18:35.980
 that need.

01:18:35.980 --> 01:18:41.620
 The things that the COE recommended supporting is introducing the commercial bulk waste, converting

01:18:41.620 --> 01:18:43.820
 to schedule service for brush.

01:18:43.820 --> 01:18:48.060
 They also recommended adding a commercial brush collection as an option into that service

01:18:48.060 --> 01:18:49.060
 model as well.

01:18:49.060 --> 01:18:53.060
 We haven't had a chance to look at that, but certainly if that's the direction the board

01:18:53.060 --> 01:18:57.060
 and the council want to go, we'll certainly vet that out.

01:18:57.060 --> 01:19:02.260
 In terms of next steps, recommending changes to the rates, we want to build that into fiscal

01:19:02.260 --> 01:19:04.020
 year '19-'20.

01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:06.460
 We do want to revise our Chapter 24 ordinance.

01:19:06.460 --> 01:19:10.620
 That's basically the solid waste ordinance, has not been updated since 2005.

01:19:10.620 --> 01:19:13.100
 It needs some touching up.

01:19:13.100 --> 01:19:17.580
 Then in terms of implementation, whatever we decide, we do feel like we can implement

01:19:17.580 --> 01:19:20.580
 all those recommendations by October 1.

01:19:20.580 --> 01:19:25.460
 That would include procurement of route optimization services, redesigning our service models and

01:19:25.460 --> 01:19:28.860
 getting a communication and marketing plan together.

01:19:28.860 --> 01:19:33.500
 So with that, I'll circle back to this and see what the PUB's feelings are on the options

01:19:33.500 --> 01:19:34.500
 on the table.

01:19:34.500 --> 01:19:51.300
 I have a question for you about how you calculated the costs of home chemical collection at $254

01:19:51.300 --> 01:19:52.300
 per collection.

01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:53.980
 Is that what that meant?

01:19:53.980 --> 01:19:54.980
 Yes.

01:19:54.980 --> 01:19:55.980
 Yes.

01:19:55.980 --> 01:20:00.820
 Help me understand that because I want that job because if I'm only doing it 14 times

01:20:00.820 --> 01:20:08.140
 in a day, and I'm going to make $254 per, I mean, that doesn't make any sense at all

01:20:08.140 --> 01:20:09.140
 to me.

01:20:09.140 --> 01:20:11.700
 This is a truck driving around town, right?

01:20:11.700 --> 01:20:12.700
 It is.

01:20:12.700 --> 01:20:14.180
 Now, we have made this a bit more efficient.

01:20:14.180 --> 01:20:18.100
 You have basically home chemical collection electronics and appliances all being collected

01:20:18.100 --> 01:20:19.820
 via one truck.

01:20:19.820 --> 01:20:24.380
 You essentially have this cost, this is the cost for the home chemical collection, divided

01:20:24.380 --> 01:20:26.860
 by the number of participants on a yearly basis.

01:20:26.860 --> 01:20:33.980
 So you take this and multiply it by about how many operating days, Tina, 207 operating

01:20:33.980 --> 01:20:35.660
 days.

01:20:35.660 --> 01:20:42.060
 So as your numerator, that becomes your denominator and you get about $200-some-odd per collection.

01:20:42.060 --> 01:20:46.100
 And so even greater usage wouldn't reduce that cost is what you're saying.

01:20:46.100 --> 01:20:49.020
 I think what you've got to look at with home chemical collection, we've talked a little

01:20:49.020 --> 01:20:54.260
 bit about this, is we need to introduce revenue into the program, i.e. the regional revenue

01:20:54.260 --> 01:21:02.060
 stream, but then we also look at is portside collection the most efficient way to do this.

01:21:02.060 --> 01:21:08.580
 You do get some cost savings by having it run as events or as a drop-off instead of

01:21:08.580 --> 01:21:12.180
 dispatching a unit out and trying to collect it on the curb every day.

01:21:12.180 --> 01:21:17.500
 And just can you tell me what all is wrapped into that $762,000?

01:21:17.500 --> 01:21:22.540
 A lot of fixed costs, when I say fixed cost, is personnel and equipment.

01:21:22.540 --> 01:21:27.260
 We do have some variable costs for processing the chemicals, the electronics, the appliances,

01:21:27.260 --> 01:21:34.900
 but those are very minor in nature compared to the personnel, the facilities, the equipment.

01:21:34.900 --> 01:21:37.780
 Again, this is a soup to nuts.

01:21:37.780 --> 01:21:39.780
 So it's not just the collection on the front end.

01:21:39.780 --> 01:21:42.180
 We are managing this hazardous waste on the back end.

01:21:42.180 --> 01:21:47.380
 So once it enters our facility, we may be dealing with a flammable bulk weight.

01:21:47.380 --> 01:21:53.420
 And as a result, instead of the $10 it costs you to buy in loads, it may cost us $500, $700,

01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:54.420
 $800.

01:21:54.420 --> 01:21:55.980
 This has got your utilities overhead.

01:21:55.980 --> 01:21:56.980
 Exactly.

01:21:56.980 --> 01:21:58.940
 And disposal and everything else.

01:21:58.940 --> 01:21:59.940
 Got it.

01:21:59.940 --> 01:22:00.940
 Okay.

01:22:00.940 --> 01:22:01.940
 Thank you.

01:22:01.940 --> 01:22:02.940
 Thank you.

01:22:02.940 --> 01:22:03.940
 Other questions?

01:22:03.940 --> 01:22:05.380
 Yeah, I had a question about the electronics and appliances.

01:22:05.380 --> 01:22:10.500
 Can you go back to that other slide about what we were going to do with it?

01:22:10.500 --> 01:22:11.500
 This one?

01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:17.180
 Yeah, I'm like, okay, so you're proposing that we discontinue collection or increase

01:22:17.180 --> 01:22:18.180
 the fee?

01:22:18.180 --> 01:22:22.340
 We can do either/or and we can certainly stay the same.

01:22:22.340 --> 01:22:28.140
 I think what we've seen a lot of other communities do is they discontinue collection of electronics.

01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:31.340
 They continue to offer the appliances and they continue to offer the appliances for

01:22:31.340 --> 01:22:34.420
 a fee if they're diverting it.

01:22:34.420 --> 01:22:39.380
 There's many different flavors of chocolate in terms of how -- or not chocolate, ice cream.

01:22:39.380 --> 01:22:43.580
 There's many different flavors of ice cream in terms of how these services get doled out.

01:22:43.580 --> 01:22:47.060
 And so in terms of diverting this and ensuring it gets recycled, that means that it has to

01:22:47.060 --> 01:22:48.660
 be a separate collection.

01:22:48.660 --> 01:22:51.900
 That's where usually you see the fees associated with this.

01:22:51.900 --> 01:22:55.540
 For the communities that collect this as bulk waste and it goes to the landfill, they usually

01:22:55.540 --> 01:22:58.540
 just bundle that into the bulk waste collection.

01:22:58.540 --> 01:22:59.540
 Okay.

01:22:59.540 --> 01:23:00.620
 All right.

01:23:00.620 --> 01:23:04.180
 It's because I've got a TV that I need to get rid of.

01:23:04.180 --> 01:23:05.180
 We haven't changed anything yet.

01:23:05.180 --> 01:23:08.180
 Hurry up and put it on the curb.

01:23:08.180 --> 01:23:13.460
 No, so what I'm trying to do -- because I mean, I think this happens to a lot of families,

01:23:13.460 --> 01:23:17.740
 you know, you've got the big TV, all right, and then you want a bigger TV.

01:23:17.740 --> 01:23:21.700
 So the old TV goes to one of the kids' bedrooms, right?

01:23:21.700 --> 01:23:25.820
 And then it keeps going on down the line, and then at the -- and then when that TV finally

01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:30.500
 breaks, there's not a -- you don't want to take it to the charities and dump it there.

01:23:30.500 --> 01:23:31.500
 Right.

01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:32.500
 Or a lot of them won't take them.

01:23:32.500 --> 01:23:33.500
 Exactly.

01:23:33.500 --> 01:23:34.500
 Yeah.

01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:35.500
 Exactly.

01:23:35.500 --> 01:23:36.500
 And then the retail take-back programs.

01:23:36.500 --> 01:23:41.740
 I mean, you know, it's been 20 years and you forgot, you know, the retail outlet may

01:23:41.740 --> 01:23:43.620
 not even be available anymore.

01:23:43.620 --> 01:23:46.860
 So then you're kind of stuck with, what do I do with this?

01:23:46.860 --> 01:23:49.980
 Some of them will take it whether or not you bought another TV there or not.

01:23:49.980 --> 01:23:50.980
 I will say this.

01:23:50.980 --> 01:23:51.980
 Really?

01:23:51.980 --> 01:23:52.980
 Yes.

01:23:52.980 --> 01:23:53.980
 See, that's not well-known.

01:23:53.980 --> 01:23:59.060
 Our current price point -- so Best Buy probably runs the biggest electronics recycling operation

01:23:59.060 --> 01:24:00.580
 in our area.

01:24:00.580 --> 01:24:05.060
 Our price point at $20 per collection is exactly the same as theirs, and they'll do the same

01:24:05.060 --> 01:24:07.360
 thing as we do -- come out to your curb, pick it up.

01:24:07.360 --> 01:24:11.260
 In some cases, they'll actually give you a discount if you're buying another one to replace

01:24:11.260 --> 01:24:12.260
 it.

01:24:12.260 --> 01:24:16.820
 And so we do try to direct folks there, but it's not a one-size-fits-all, and maybe that's

01:24:16.820 --> 01:24:20.200
 the case for a television, but they won't offer the same service for, say, a microwave

01:24:20.200 --> 01:24:22.700
 oven or something like that.

01:24:22.700 --> 01:24:26.380
 So I think trying to find our place in that is really maybe the question.

01:24:26.380 --> 01:24:31.700
 I mean, because ultimately you don't want to have, again, appliances dropped off in

01:24:31.700 --> 01:24:36.820
 the middle of nowhere, you know, because they can't figure out what to do with it.

01:24:36.820 --> 01:24:41.060
 One of the things we've kicked around internally -- so there's two different cost components

01:24:41.060 --> 01:24:44.660
 to dealing with this, and I think Brian illustrated it with what he said -- there's the collection

01:24:44.660 --> 01:24:48.820
 piece, which is really the convenience piece in a lot of cases, and then there's the actual

01:24:48.820 --> 01:24:53.160
 handling and processing piece to recycle it or dispose of it.

01:24:53.160 --> 01:24:55.640
 We have fees for both.

01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:59.940
 So if we feel like for electronics versus appliances -- because, again, I think electronics

01:24:59.940 --> 01:25:06.500
 are some cases easier to handle -- we could look at discounting our landfill rate for that,

01:25:06.500 --> 01:25:12.140
 maybe even providing that service at no cost in order to recycle that, and then just look

01:25:12.140 --> 01:25:14.580
 at discontinuing the collection side of things.

01:25:14.580 --> 01:25:18.460
 But I think that's really what we'd be recommending, is when you look at the fee, we want to cost

01:25:18.460 --> 01:25:20.740
 recover on us running that truck out there.

01:25:20.740 --> 01:25:21.740
 Right.

01:25:21.740 --> 01:25:22.740
 I totally get that.

01:25:22.740 --> 01:25:23.740
 I totally understand that.

01:25:23.740 --> 01:25:26.740
 I'm just -- like I said, then you've got that other problem of you don't want to see

01:25:26.740 --> 01:25:31.980
 TVs, you know, start to come up on the prairie.

01:25:31.980 --> 01:25:40.580
 I think the notes comment there, the promotion of donation centers and retail take-back programs,

01:25:40.580 --> 01:25:47.580
 I think that that concept can be used in the solid waste, in the recycling area, quite

01:25:47.580 --> 01:25:50.220
 a bit, and in this area quite a bit as well.

01:25:50.220 --> 01:25:55.560
 I mean, almost every single household appliance the recycling centers will take here.

01:25:55.560 --> 01:25:59.620
 You might have to put it in your truck or ask somebody to take it, but they'll take

01:25:59.620 --> 01:26:06.060
 a plastic dishwasher and they break it down and take the pieces off and turn it into something.

01:26:06.060 --> 01:26:09.900
 You know, places like Fry's, they don't want electronics, but other places will actually

01:26:09.900 --> 01:26:15.920
 take electronics, too, but it does take some research to do it, and perhaps if the city

01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:20.300
 had some kind of central place that, you know, that you could go to on the web and see, pow,

01:26:20.300 --> 01:26:24.180
 oh, I could take it here, take it here, you know, it might facilitate that, and then this

01:26:24.180 --> 01:26:25.620
 wouldn't become an issue at all.

01:26:25.620 --> 01:26:28.940
 We were actually talking about that today, looking at our website, is we need to be a

01:26:28.940 --> 01:26:29.940
 better resource.

01:26:29.940 --> 01:26:31.740
 It's not just our services.

01:26:31.740 --> 01:26:33.900
 We need to be like Macy's and Miracle at 34th Street.

01:26:33.900 --> 01:26:36.380
 We can get out of the street and do that here, too, and so.

01:26:36.380 --> 01:26:41.140
 And you know, and as people see that you're -- sometimes when information is just coming

01:26:41.140 --> 01:26:47.140
 from you guys, you know, well, sometimes it enhances the information if they're getting

01:26:47.140 --> 01:26:50.820
 information from many different resources and they're getting the same answer, you know,

01:26:50.820 --> 01:26:51.820
 so.

01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:52.820
 Right.

01:26:52.820 --> 01:26:53.820
 I'd agree with that.

01:26:53.820 --> 01:26:54.820
 Yeah.

01:26:54.820 --> 01:26:56.880
 I'm inclined to follow the COE's recommendations.

01:26:56.880 --> 01:26:58.300
 I like them.

01:26:58.300 --> 01:27:01.500
 Can I go back to the -- but they didn't want to change yard waste.

01:27:01.500 --> 01:27:02.500
 Is that correct?

01:27:02.500 --> 01:27:03.500
 Did I understand that?

01:27:03.500 --> 01:27:04.500
 No, that's correct.

01:27:04.500 --> 01:27:05.500
 That's correct.

01:27:05.500 --> 01:27:06.500
 They wanted to maintain the existing model.

01:27:06.500 --> 01:27:10.580
 Yeah, and I would want to change the existing model, but I don't use yard waste.

01:27:10.580 --> 01:27:14.660
 I have somebody who does that for me, and it's not my husband.

01:27:14.660 --> 01:27:23.740
 So, Susan, you liked the idea of the cart with the food, also with the food waste.

01:27:23.740 --> 01:27:24.740
 Yes.

01:27:24.740 --> 01:27:25.740
 Yes.

01:27:25.740 --> 01:27:26.740
 But I'm good with this, too.

01:27:26.740 --> 01:27:28.780
 I think that's a direction we could probably go.

01:27:28.780 --> 01:27:34.300
 Has anybody ever watched them pick up 20 leaf bags?

01:27:34.300 --> 01:27:35.300
 It's pretty ridiculous.

01:27:35.300 --> 01:27:39.300
 They open each one, they dump it in the thing, they bag up the bag.

01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:41.880
 It's a ridiculous process and horribly inefficient.

01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:46.260
 So carts and bags is a great idea, but I don't really like the subscription fee.

01:27:46.260 --> 01:27:51.580
 I kind of think it should be, hey, my cart's out there, there's something in it, you know.

01:27:51.580 --> 01:27:57.220
 We have a lot of garden beds, so we eat almost daily, and so we've got stuff daily, almost.

01:27:57.220 --> 01:28:01.140
 So you like the cart, but not the $1.

01:28:01.140 --> 01:28:02.980
 Yeah, yeah, essentially.

01:28:02.980 --> 01:28:06.300
 I just don't like changing it, because then you have to do something.

01:28:06.300 --> 01:28:09.660
 Somebody has to do something, and then you have to educate them that they have to do

01:28:09.660 --> 01:28:10.660
 that.

01:28:10.660 --> 01:28:13.980
 That if they don't do that, they wonder why their collection isn't being made.

01:28:13.980 --> 01:28:14.980
 Why did it get changed?

01:28:14.980 --> 01:28:18.180
 They don't have all that stuff sitting out there in front of their house all the time.

01:28:18.180 --> 01:28:23.220
 I've tried various things with the people that come by and clean up my, you know, waste,

01:28:23.220 --> 01:28:28.820
 and I've found that if I leave the bag untied, they'll pour the waste in the back of the

01:28:28.820 --> 01:28:32.860
 truck and put the bag back there right there on the ground.

01:28:32.860 --> 01:28:36.140
 Now, if the bag's tied, they rip it open and take it.

01:28:36.140 --> 01:28:40.420
 I've tried putting it in a trash can, and a couple of times they've taken it, and other

01:28:40.420 --> 01:28:45.820
 times they just leave it there, you know, so, which would be kind of like a cart, so.

01:28:45.820 --> 01:28:49.380
 So the customers would have to buy a cart.

01:28:49.380 --> 01:28:50.380
 I'm experienced.

01:28:50.380 --> 01:28:51.380
 Yeah, yeah, you're industrious.

01:28:51.380 --> 01:28:52.380
 Yeah.

01:28:52.380 --> 01:28:53.380
 You spend a lot of time on this.

01:28:53.380 --> 01:28:57.940
 So the people would have to buy a cart up front.

01:28:57.940 --> 01:28:59.220
 There's different approaches to that.

01:28:59.220 --> 01:29:01.940
 I mean, the cart cost for us is about $40.

01:29:01.940 --> 01:29:06.260
 I think it would be a very small capital, I wouldn't even call it a capital investment.

01:29:06.260 --> 01:29:10.740
 I think whenever Fort Worth rolled this out, they didn't do the subscription fee.

01:29:10.740 --> 01:29:14.980
 They basically said buy the cart, and then it's yours forever, and so there's different

01:29:14.980 --> 01:29:17.360
 approaches that we could take to this.

01:29:17.360 --> 01:29:22.780
 Again, I think the biggest gain for us on the subscription fee is it's a pen and a map,

01:29:22.780 --> 01:29:24.500
 and we know exactly where we're going.

01:29:24.500 --> 01:29:26.860
 You don't have to go up and down every street looking for it.

01:29:26.860 --> 01:29:27.860
 Exactly right.

01:29:27.860 --> 01:29:32.180
 I guess my problem with that, as you mentioned earlier, that you had a shortage of this type

01:29:32.180 --> 01:29:37.900
 of stuff, that we don't have enough solid matter to introduce into our bio waste to do

01:29:37.900 --> 01:29:38.900
 this.

01:29:38.900 --> 01:29:42.060
 So, and if you put obstacles, you're going to get less, you're not going to get more.

01:29:42.060 --> 01:29:43.620
 I don't see it as an obstacle.

01:29:43.620 --> 01:29:47.340
 I see it as wanting to improve it.

01:29:47.340 --> 01:29:50.820
 Well, to subscribe is an obstacle of sorts.

01:29:50.820 --> 01:29:51.820
 I got you there.

01:29:51.820 --> 01:29:52.820
 Okay.

01:29:52.820 --> 01:29:56.420
 And I think the COE made that point as well, is we want to make it easy for folks.

01:29:56.420 --> 01:30:05.500
 And again, I think it depends on which policy objective carries the bigger weight for us.

01:30:05.500 --> 01:30:08.420
 So direction?

01:30:08.420 --> 01:30:09.740
 Follow COE?

01:30:09.740 --> 01:30:14.780
 And just for, this was their recommendation here.

01:30:14.780 --> 01:30:18.580
 Were they opposed to the cart, or they just didn't really touch on it?

01:30:18.580 --> 01:30:20.380
 They just didn't want the subscription?

01:30:20.380 --> 01:30:24.460
 We had two COE members there in probably the heaviest wooded areas of the city.

01:30:24.460 --> 01:30:28.500
 And so I think, you know, the cart is significant.

01:30:28.500 --> 01:30:33.100
 And so I think some of the concerns that they had is the cart is not going to be enough.

01:30:33.100 --> 01:30:36.780
 And I'm going to fill up a lot of those crap bags.

01:30:36.780 --> 01:30:41.860
 And I think, you know, it's, I think the thing that we had said to that is we appreciate

01:30:41.860 --> 01:30:42.860
 that.

01:30:42.860 --> 01:30:46.580
 We also have to look at the citizens in town that have a smaller lot.

01:30:46.580 --> 01:30:48.940
 It's small trees, they're not using the brush.

01:30:48.940 --> 01:30:52.740
 And I think that's really the question that we have here is, you know, we can, we certainly

01:30:52.740 --> 01:30:55.100
 want to support the program whichever way we do.

01:30:55.100 --> 01:30:59.220
 Is there a way to make it more equitable for every resident that we have in the system?

01:30:59.220 --> 01:31:00.220
 Yeah.

01:31:00.220 --> 01:31:01.220
 But ultimately, this is where they landed.

01:31:01.220 --> 01:31:05.220
 I have one more thing just before we wrap this up.

01:31:05.220 --> 01:31:06.220
 Go ahead.

01:31:06.220 --> 01:31:11.300
 So on your next steps, you mentioned revising the solid waste ordinance.

01:31:11.300 --> 01:31:12.300
 Yes.

01:31:12.300 --> 01:31:20.500
 And in that ordinance, regarding trash collection and solid waste or and recycling, there are,

01:31:20.500 --> 01:31:26.980
 there's some pretty specific things about not putting non recyclables into the recycle

01:31:26.980 --> 01:31:27.980
 bin.

01:31:27.980 --> 01:31:32.100
 There doesn't seem to be anything about putting recyclables into the trash.

01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:35.420
 And I know some people might be going, well, why would we want to do that?

01:31:35.420 --> 01:31:36.420
 That seems like oppressive.

01:31:36.420 --> 01:31:43.460
 But are there municipalities that say, hey, you've got to recycle, and it's the law?

01:31:43.460 --> 01:31:44.460
 There are.

01:31:44.460 --> 01:31:48.380
 And I'm not sure how many you see in Texas, but that's very prevalent in California and

01:31:48.380 --> 01:31:53.340
 some states like that, where they'll actually go out and cite you if they find a recyclable

01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:54.340
 in the wrong bin.

01:31:54.340 --> 01:31:56.460
 And so there is precedent for that.

01:31:56.460 --> 01:31:57.460
 We started out doing it that way.

01:31:57.460 --> 01:31:58.460
 There wasn't one that didn't start recycling.

01:31:58.460 --> 01:31:59.460
 It was a big deal.

01:31:59.460 --> 01:32:09.180
 I got written up, but it started out doing it that way.

01:32:09.180 --> 01:32:10.180
 You got red tag, did you?

01:32:10.180 --> 01:32:15.500
 I think it would cost more to enforce than it did to just, I'll just take it.

01:32:15.500 --> 01:32:22.700
 In those revisions, do you foresee us doing anything along those lines, making it stricter?

01:32:22.700 --> 01:32:26.820
 I think for staff's perspective, we want to bring the ordinance up to date, number one,

01:32:26.820 --> 01:32:30.340
 and then we'll bring it to the PB and the council for policy direction.

01:32:30.340 --> 01:32:34.700
 We don't presume to have the answers on what we want to set as policy, but we can certainly

01:32:34.700 --> 01:32:35.700
 look.

01:32:35.700 --> 01:32:36.700
 Here are some options that you might consider.

01:32:36.700 --> 01:32:41.020
 I know mandatory commercial recycling is something we've heard a lot about, and so that's an

01:32:41.020 --> 01:32:44.820
 option that we want to put in there, kind of benchmark with some cities to see how they're

01:32:44.820 --> 01:32:48.060
 handling those types of programs, if that's the direction we want to go.

01:32:48.060 --> 01:32:51.740
 This would probably follow kind of that direction as well, is here's two or three options that

01:32:51.740 --> 01:32:52.900
 you can consider.

01:32:52.900 --> 01:32:57.060
 I will say that certainly from a recycling contamination standpoint, that's going to

01:32:57.060 --> 01:33:01.380
 be a key point of emphasis for us, kind of trying to tighten that up and see if we're

01:33:01.380 --> 01:33:05.620
 making good progress or not, but we can certainly take that the other direction too.

01:33:05.620 --> 01:33:06.620
 Okay.

01:33:06.620 --> 01:33:12.620
 I wouldn't want to see us do away with our recycling program, though, or--

01:33:12.620 --> 01:33:13.620
 Absolutely not.

01:33:13.620 --> 01:33:14.620
 Oh, absolutely not.

01:33:14.620 --> 01:33:15.620
 It may get worse than what it is.

01:33:15.620 --> 01:33:16.620
 Yeah.

01:33:16.620 --> 01:33:17.620
 I mean, not that it's worse right now, but--

01:33:17.620 --> 01:33:18.620
 We'll get to that in a minute.

01:33:18.620 --> 01:33:19.620
 So--

01:33:19.620 --> 01:33:20.620
 Yeah.

01:33:20.620 --> 01:33:21.620
 Yeah.

01:33:21.620 --> 01:33:23.620
 So what I've heard--

01:33:23.620 --> 01:33:27.780
 So the consensus, why didn't you say what you heard?

01:33:27.780 --> 01:33:28.780
 Thank you.

01:33:28.780 --> 01:33:32.740
 So what I've heard, at least from Mr. Carroll, is we go with the Committee on the Environment

01:33:32.740 --> 01:33:38.340
 recommendations, are there any deviations from what they're recommending here that we'd

01:33:38.340 --> 01:33:43.020
 get some consensus on?

01:33:43.020 --> 01:33:51.820
 I like the idea of a cart, only because it also facilitates what you call the pre-consumer--

01:33:51.820 --> 01:33:52.820
 Vegetative.

01:33:52.820 --> 01:33:53.820
 Vegetative waste.

01:33:53.820 --> 01:33:54.820
 Food waste.

01:33:54.820 --> 01:33:55.820
 Yeah.

01:33:55.820 --> 01:33:59.340
 I've already bought it, so it's not pre-consumer, in my opinion, so I guess it's pre-consumption.

01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:00.340
 Consumption.

01:34:00.340 --> 01:34:01.340
 I'll change that.

01:34:01.340 --> 01:34:02.340
 Thank you.

01:34:02.340 --> 01:34:07.340
 The thing that kind of bothers me, though, is that you were talking about how there would

01:34:07.340 --> 01:34:13.300
 be some citizens who don't have much in the-- they don't trees, they don't have a garden,

01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:18.300
 they don't have, you know, much of a lot line at all, and that they're paying for, you know,

01:34:18.300 --> 01:34:19.300
 those of us who do--

01:34:19.300 --> 01:34:20.300
 You need to get closer to your mic.

01:34:20.300 --> 01:34:22.740
 --and that they're paying for those of us who do, but at the same time--

01:34:22.740 --> 01:34:23.740
 Is it on?

01:34:23.740 --> 01:34:24.740
 Okay.

01:34:24.740 --> 01:34:25.740
 All right.

01:34:25.740 --> 01:34:33.260
 The thing that bothers me or that worries me is that, you know, the people who have

01:34:33.260 --> 01:34:38.000
 trees and who have gardens and whatnot, that that's-- ultimately, that's a good thing for

01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:39.000
 our community.

01:34:39.000 --> 01:34:40.000
 Absolutely.

01:34:40.000 --> 01:34:41.000
 Yeah.

01:34:41.000 --> 01:34:45.020
 And so we don't want to discourage people from, you know, cutting down their trees because

01:34:45.020 --> 01:34:50.220
 they don't want to have to pay for the waste that comes from having a tree in your backyard.

01:34:50.220 --> 01:34:51.780
 Right.

01:34:51.780 --> 01:34:58.540
 That's the thing that worries me about only having people who use the yard waste because

01:34:58.540 --> 01:35:06.860
 then I just feel like that increases the cost for the people who do have trees and whatnot.

01:35:06.860 --> 01:35:10.220
 But the brush is going to be separate from the yard waste, is that--

01:35:10.220 --> 01:35:11.220
 That's correct.

01:35:11.220 --> 01:35:12.220
 --correct?

01:35:12.220 --> 01:35:14.440
 The yard waste is grass clippings, basically.

01:35:14.440 --> 01:35:15.440
 And leaves occasionally.

01:35:15.440 --> 01:35:16.440
 And leaves.

01:35:16.440 --> 01:35:17.440
 And leaves.

01:35:17.440 --> 01:35:18.440
 Oh, and leaves.

01:35:18.440 --> 01:35:19.440
 Yeah.

01:35:19.440 --> 01:35:20.440
 They blow away.

01:35:20.440 --> 01:35:21.440
 This is Texas.

01:35:21.440 --> 01:35:22.440
 Not in my yard.

01:35:22.440 --> 01:35:24.020
 I mean, I have like a bajillion bags of trees.

01:35:24.020 --> 01:35:25.020
 Sorry.

01:35:25.020 --> 01:35:26.020
 Okay.

01:35:26.020 --> 01:35:27.020
 My yard.

01:35:27.020 --> 01:35:33.940
 And I live in a very, you know, yeah, there's a lot of trees in our neighborhood.

01:35:33.940 --> 01:35:42.020
 Are you distinguishing the brush that ends up going into the same yard waste truck than

01:35:42.020 --> 01:35:45.300
 brush that gets picked up by the claw truck?

01:35:45.300 --> 01:35:46.300
 Yeah.

01:35:46.300 --> 01:35:52.500
 So I think typically for brush, whenever we dispatch, we will typically, right now, we'll

01:35:52.500 --> 01:35:56.820
 need to take a look at this, is anything that's under four foot and less than 50 pounds, we

01:35:56.820 --> 01:35:58.260
 can collect by hand.

01:35:58.260 --> 01:36:02.380
 If it's more than that, that's when we would dispatch the claw truck to come collect it.

01:36:02.380 --> 01:36:03.380
 Okay.

01:36:03.380 --> 01:36:05.540
 But that's all still called brush?

01:36:05.540 --> 01:36:09.420
 Right now, some of it may go into the yard waste truck.

01:36:09.420 --> 01:36:10.420
 It's not real.

01:36:10.420 --> 01:36:16.580
 Whenever we look at these volumes up here, it's all basically into one pot, one pool.

01:36:16.580 --> 01:36:18.580
 So that's brush and yard waste.

01:36:18.580 --> 01:36:19.580
 Okay.

01:36:19.580 --> 01:36:20.580
 All right.

01:36:20.580 --> 01:36:21.580
 Thank you.

01:36:21.580 --> 01:36:22.580
 I'm sorry.

01:36:22.580 --> 01:36:23.580
 Just one more question.

01:36:23.580 --> 01:36:26.580
 And what was Blue Ridge's recommendation on the yard waste?

01:36:26.580 --> 01:36:30.180
 Usually their findings were that it was highly inefficient, less than safe.

01:36:30.180 --> 01:36:36.380
 Their recommendation was move to carts, move brush to schedule services.

01:36:36.380 --> 01:36:42.060
 I do think going strictly to carts is going to be problematic because of the volume limits,

01:36:42.060 --> 01:36:43.060
 certainly.

01:36:43.060 --> 01:36:45.340
 One of the things I will say is these things don't have to go together.

01:36:45.340 --> 01:36:50.060
 We can introduce carts without changing how we run the collection of yard waste.

01:36:50.060 --> 01:36:51.860
 Could you make that an opt-in?

01:36:51.860 --> 01:36:56.460
 Not that they have to pay one, but they ask requests for a cart because someone liked it?

01:36:56.460 --> 01:37:00.620
 I really think you're going to get people in on the vegetative food waste.

01:37:00.620 --> 01:37:01.620
 Oh, yeah.

01:37:01.620 --> 01:37:07.540
 And then that's going to increase your, maybe not hugely, the volume that you're getting.

01:37:07.540 --> 01:37:11.380
 And then that actually might be something that supports the idea of the subscription

01:37:11.380 --> 01:37:12.380
 fee.

01:37:12.380 --> 01:37:15.860
 Because then if you know they have that type of waste, you actually want to come and collect

01:37:15.860 --> 01:37:16.860
 it frequently.

01:37:16.860 --> 01:37:19.060
 You don't want it to get all funky.

01:37:19.060 --> 01:37:27.180
 In my last place where I lived, all my vegetative food waste got composted.

01:37:27.180 --> 01:37:35.580
 So would it be possible to turn this into sort of a two-year plan and think about introducing

01:37:35.580 --> 01:37:38.500
 the carts and the subscription next year?

01:37:38.500 --> 01:37:44.540
 I mean, right now, I'm not sure that Denton is ready for carts and subscriptions.

01:37:44.540 --> 01:37:45.540
 No.

01:37:45.540 --> 01:37:46.540
 I think you're right.

01:37:46.540 --> 01:37:53.100
 And it might need to-- you might need to plow the street a little bit first with some education

01:37:53.100 --> 01:37:54.100
 or something.

01:37:54.100 --> 01:37:56.580
 Can we put a little bit of food waste in the plastic bag?

01:37:56.580 --> 01:37:57.580
 We prefer not.

01:37:57.580 --> 01:38:00.580
 They're kind of going right now.

01:38:00.580 --> 01:38:02.940
 They're not ready for this.

01:38:02.940 --> 01:38:07.820
 I mean, maybe set that up, tee that up for next year.

01:38:07.820 --> 01:38:09.060
 That's a good idea.

01:38:09.060 --> 01:38:10.060
 With some education.

01:38:10.060 --> 01:38:11.060
 Yeah.

01:38:11.060 --> 01:38:12.060
 Yeah.

01:38:12.060 --> 01:38:13.060
 Now.

01:38:13.060 --> 01:38:14.060
 I think there needs to be some education on that.

01:38:14.060 --> 01:38:15.060
 Okay.

01:38:15.060 --> 01:38:16.060
 All right.

01:38:16.060 --> 01:38:22.420
 I mean, right now, I just-- I compost my own pre-consumer vegetative food waste, you know.

01:38:22.420 --> 01:38:25.740
 So it would be-- it would be an adjustment for quite a few people.

01:38:25.740 --> 01:38:26.740
 Sure.

01:38:26.740 --> 01:38:27.740
 I did that too.

01:38:27.740 --> 01:38:30.740
 I'm not allowed anymore in my neighborhood.

01:38:30.740 --> 01:38:31.740
 Oh.

01:38:31.740 --> 01:38:36.620
 Well, I think I've got enough input that I can put together a slide for tomorrow.

01:38:36.620 --> 01:38:39.620
 We knew this was going to be a shotgun approach.

01:38:39.620 --> 01:38:43.620
 So I think it gives us enough direction that we can put another slide together.

01:38:43.620 --> 01:38:47.180
 Hopefully the gist of it is going to be follow these recommendations with the thought that

01:38:47.180 --> 01:38:52.380
 we could introduce the carts alone as kind of an opt-in, not the subscription fee, and

01:38:52.380 --> 01:38:55.380
 then we circle back next year and see what the temperature is.

01:38:55.380 --> 01:38:58.380
 Any other thoughts on the rest of these?

01:38:58.380 --> 01:39:00.420
 All right.

01:39:00.420 --> 01:39:01.420
 Thank you very much.

01:39:01.420 --> 01:39:02.420
 Thank you.

01:39:02.420 --> 01:39:04.780
 Now, the next item, I think, is going to take a bit.

01:39:04.780 --> 01:39:09.260
 So why don't we take a five-minute environmental break?

01:39:09.260 --> 01:39:15.660
 Okay, it's about 747 and we're back.

01:39:15.660 --> 01:39:21.700
 This item is receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the solid

01:39:21.700 --> 01:39:23.660
 waste department's recycling program.

01:39:23.660 --> 01:39:25.220
 Well, good evening again.

01:39:25.220 --> 01:39:26.220
 My name is Ethan Cox.

01:39:26.220 --> 01:39:28.300
 I'm the director of public works for the city.

01:39:28.300 --> 01:39:33.220
 So this evening we have an update on our recycling program for the public utilities board.

01:39:33.220 --> 01:39:36.940
 You'll recall we came back before the board, I think it was January, February time frame

01:39:36.940 --> 01:39:39.980
 and just kind of did a full-on business case analysis.

01:39:39.980 --> 01:39:45.620
 Well, since that time we've gotten some less than ideal news on where we are with the market

01:39:45.620 --> 01:39:47.860
 and how it's impacting our program.

01:39:47.860 --> 01:39:51.300
 There was an informal staff report that was sent to city council on May the 10th.

01:39:51.300 --> 01:39:54.020
 It was also circulated via the newspaper.

01:39:54.020 --> 01:39:56.020
 I'm not sure if we've shared that with the PV yet.

01:39:56.020 --> 01:39:59.500
 If not, we will certainly get that out to you as part of an ACM update.

01:39:59.500 --> 01:40:03.860
 But I am going to give you the gist of that report and kind of what it was and how we

01:40:03.860 --> 01:40:06.180
 got here and then what our next steps are.

01:40:06.180 --> 01:40:12.420
 So to kind of cut to the chase, on March 26th staff learned that Pratt Industries, our materials

01:40:12.420 --> 01:40:18.300
 recycling facility, our on-site MRF, was land filling essentially glass and plastics three

01:40:18.300 --> 01:40:19.740
 through seven.

01:40:19.740 --> 01:40:24.140
 The reason why this happened is the buyers that were participating, there's very few

01:40:24.140 --> 01:40:28.620
 in the region for those two particular types of materials, they had enacted some quality

01:40:28.620 --> 01:40:32.300
 standards and started refusing loads.

01:40:32.300 --> 01:40:35.020
 Needless to say, we were just concerned about this.

01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:38.420
 We went through and initiated a contract review.

01:40:38.420 --> 01:40:42.540
 That took a better part of about 30 days and ultimately what we found is we felt like aside

01:40:42.540 --> 01:40:47.460
 from the lack of notification, Pratt Industries was acting in accordance with the contract.

01:40:47.460 --> 01:40:52.300
 I'll get to kind of the contract provisions that allow that in just a moment.

01:40:52.300 --> 01:40:58.340
 Real quickly in terms of the rest of the timeline, April 24th, while we were doing the contract

01:40:58.340 --> 01:41:02.300
 review, Pratt was able to locate a buyer for plastics three through seven.

01:41:02.300 --> 01:41:06.220
 I'll give an example of what those types of plastics are in just a moment.

01:41:06.220 --> 01:41:12.260
 They resumed shipments to that recycler and those have continued from that date to now.

01:41:12.260 --> 01:41:17.740
 On April 29th, we issued a written request for notification to Pratt, also asked for

01:41:17.740 --> 01:41:21.460
 some commitments from them in terms of improved communication.

01:41:21.460 --> 01:41:24.500
 Really we feel like the biggest breakdown here was we weren't allowed to get out in

01:41:24.500 --> 01:41:28.980
 front of the message, inform this board, inform the council, inform our citizens that this

01:41:28.980 --> 01:41:32.580
 was happening and what they needed to know about it.

01:41:32.580 --> 01:41:36.860
 Pratt responded with the written request as well as some commitments to improve communication

01:41:36.860 --> 01:41:41.940
 as well as updates on those various materials and then on the 14th, which was last week,

01:41:41.940 --> 01:41:46.260
 Pratt received a verbal commitment from a glass recycler in Houston to start accepting

01:41:46.260 --> 01:41:47.260
 loads.

01:41:47.260 --> 01:41:48.260
 First load went today.

01:41:48.260 --> 01:41:53.420
 They've got two additional loads going out this week and so it does look like unfortunately

01:41:53.420 --> 01:41:56.940
 this happened but it does look like we're starting to get that stuff back in the commodities

01:41:56.940 --> 01:41:57.940
 market.

01:41:57.940 --> 01:42:02.860
 In terms of the agreement that we have with Pratt Industries, it's both a land lease

01:42:02.860 --> 01:42:04.780
 as well as a processing agreement.

01:42:04.780 --> 01:42:07.660
 We were locked into that agreement until 2027.

01:42:07.660 --> 01:42:12.220
 We do have some options for renewal but I would expect those to come with some renegotiation

01:42:12.220 --> 01:42:13.220
 of the terms.

01:42:13.220 --> 01:42:18.700
 It would be basically Pratt's decision and our decision as to whether to renew.

01:42:18.700 --> 01:42:20.580
 The program materials are outlined here.

01:42:20.580 --> 01:42:25.340
 Again, the ones we're talking about are plastics three through seven and glass.

01:42:25.340 --> 01:42:29.300
 The few sections of contract that we felt like were key to this discussion, number one

01:42:29.300 --> 01:42:32.100
 is ownership of the materials.

01:42:32.100 --> 01:42:36.860
 Understand that within the contract, Pratt has, basically we have the obligation to deliver

01:42:36.860 --> 01:42:41.340
 every recyclable we collect via our collection program to Pratt.

01:42:41.340 --> 01:42:44.920
 Once we deliver that to the facility, they pay us for the material and ownership immediately

01:42:44.920 --> 01:42:48.060
 transfers to Pratt Industries.

01:42:48.060 --> 01:42:52.420
 Pratt is solely responsible for the marketing and sale of that material.

01:42:52.420 --> 01:42:58.260
 They have accepted some of our requests and recommendations from time to time but ultimately

01:42:58.260 --> 01:43:01.420
 it's their responsibility to move the material.

01:43:01.420 --> 01:43:06.780
 Additionally, in addition to paying for the materials up front, if there's disposal required

01:43:06.780 --> 01:43:09.860
 for any of the materials that are unable to sell, they also pay us the landfill tipping

01:43:09.860 --> 01:43:12.980
 fee for the disposal of those materials.

01:43:12.980 --> 01:43:17.300
 So ultimately when we did our review of the contract, we felt like these sections really

01:43:17.300 --> 01:43:21.700
 provide for them to do exactly what was happening.

01:43:21.700 --> 01:43:25.900
 In terms of impact on the landfill operation, that was one of the things that we also kind

01:43:25.900 --> 01:43:31.580
 of took a look at and say, okay, well, what's happening because of this decision?

01:43:31.580 --> 01:43:33.720
 So a few things that I've put up here on this slide.

01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.260
 Number one is a regional waste composition.

01:43:36.260 --> 01:43:40.080
 The source of this is the North Central Texas Council of Governments.

01:43:40.080 --> 01:43:43.100
 This is a standard household's generation of waste.

01:43:43.100 --> 01:43:45.780
 This includes both waste and recyclables.

01:43:45.780 --> 01:43:50.760
 So glass accounts for about 7% of our waste composition.

01:43:50.760 --> 01:43:56.420
 Plastic is about 16%, but keep in mind, 3 through 7 is a subset of plastics.

01:43:56.420 --> 01:43:59.780
 We use this information as well as what we knew about what we were shipping out of the

01:43:59.780 --> 01:44:01.340
 Pratt facility.

01:44:01.340 --> 01:44:06.300
 And our estimates are that glass accounts for about 50 to 100 tons of what we recycle

01:44:06.300 --> 01:44:07.460
 each month.

01:44:07.460 --> 01:44:11.680
 That's much less than 7%, but not everybody recycles the way they should.

01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:14.740
 And then plastics 3 through 7 is about 10 to 20 tons per month.

01:44:14.740 --> 01:44:21.180
 So all told, the impact is about 120 tons per month, to put that into perspective, the

01:44:21.180 --> 01:44:27.340
 landfill handles just under 24,000 tons of materials on a monthly basis.

01:44:27.340 --> 01:44:31.980
 One of the other things that we looked at is, okay, well, have we seen an uptick in

01:44:31.980 --> 01:44:34.460
 stuff being disposed at the landfill from Pratt Industries?

01:44:34.460 --> 01:44:35.820
 Why did we not catch this before?

01:44:35.820 --> 01:44:40.660
 Well, the reason why is we haven't seen an uptick in waste disposed from them.

01:44:40.660 --> 01:44:44.560
 What Pratt Industries has done in reaction to the market turbulence that we're seeing

01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:49.220
 with recycling, they've started reducing the amount of materials they accept coming into

01:44:49.220 --> 01:44:50.620
 their facility.

01:44:50.620 --> 01:44:54.460
 They are a regional facility, they don't just accept our recyclables, they accept it from

01:44:54.460 --> 01:44:56.900
 a number of surrounding communities.

01:44:56.900 --> 01:45:02.180
 So over the last 12 to 18 months, they've stopped accepting materials from a lot of other

01:45:02.180 --> 01:45:03.180
 single stream recyclers.

01:45:03.180 --> 01:45:07.780
 When I say single stream, that's everything's commingled in a blue bin.

01:45:07.780 --> 01:45:10.780
 We're pretty much it in terms of what they accept on a single stream.

01:45:10.780 --> 01:45:17.380
 Right now, they do continue to accept some source separated cardboard from a few communities.

01:45:17.380 --> 01:45:22.060
 So what you've seen is their volumes have gone down on the front door, but what's coming

01:45:22.060 --> 01:45:26.380
 out the back door for waste has remained relatively static, so we really haven't seen an impact

01:45:26.380 --> 01:45:31.280
 on the landfill in terms of volume.

01:45:31.280 --> 01:45:34.980
 I gave this flowchart back in January, February timeline.

01:45:34.980 --> 01:45:38.940
 I think it's important to revisit it, though, because it shows you exactly how this came

01:45:38.940 --> 01:45:40.100
 about.

01:45:40.100 --> 01:45:43.320
 So going from left to right, these are our collection operations over here.

01:45:43.320 --> 01:45:47.220
 So after you put something in the blue bin, this is where the process flow kicks in.

01:45:47.220 --> 01:45:52.420
 Once we collect that stuff, we take it to Pratt Industries, where they sort and transport

01:45:52.420 --> 01:45:55.320
 that to the next leg in the processing chain.

01:45:55.320 --> 01:46:00.100
 For cardboard and paper, like we mentioned back then, Pratt owns their own paper mill.

01:46:00.100 --> 01:46:03.540
 So one of the things we're relatively assured of is if we're giving them clean paper and

01:46:03.540 --> 01:46:07.060
 cardboard, it's going to get recycled.

01:46:07.060 --> 01:46:10.500
 Those are kind of exposed to the market if they don't own their own paper mills.

01:46:10.500 --> 01:46:14.820
 For plastics, glass, and metals, they do have to partner with third-party recyclers, and

01:46:14.820 --> 01:46:17.420
 that's really where the breakdown occurred here.

01:46:17.420 --> 01:46:22.300
 The commodities markets here, when you really think about recycling, who purchases commodities

01:46:22.300 --> 01:46:23.300
 on the market?

01:46:23.300 --> 01:46:24.300
 Well, it's manufacturing.

01:46:24.300 --> 01:46:31.260
 So as China pulled out of the commodities market, there's a lot more supply in the system,

01:46:31.260 --> 01:46:33.060
 but the demand hasn't really gone up.

01:46:33.060 --> 01:46:36.140
 Manufacturers aren't saying, "Well, I need all that stuff that was going to China."

01:46:36.140 --> 01:46:40.300
 And so what's happened is quality controls have gotten much tighter to control the supply

01:46:40.300 --> 01:46:42.700
 coming into the commodities market.

01:46:42.700 --> 01:46:46.900
 As a result, a lot of third-party recyclers here are trying to reduce the amount of stuff

01:46:46.900 --> 01:46:48.540
 coming in their doors.

01:46:48.540 --> 01:46:51.820
 They implement quality restrictions just like China did.

01:46:51.820 --> 01:46:55.620
 In the case of glass, it was, "If you have a certain amount of contamination, we don't

01:46:55.620 --> 01:46:59.660
 want to receive your product anymore," which was a challenge for Pratt because...

01:46:59.660 --> 01:47:01.300
 What is contamination of glass?

01:47:01.300 --> 01:47:02.300
 Food particles?

01:47:02.300 --> 01:47:04.200
 It can be food particles.

01:47:04.200 --> 01:47:10.220
 It can also be, so glass basically is broken down into small pieces called cullet.

01:47:10.220 --> 01:47:14.500
 Our facility produces 2-inch cullets, has for years and years and years been perfectly

01:47:14.500 --> 01:47:17.500
 acceptable by the processors.

01:47:17.500 --> 01:47:22.500
 What they found in ours wasn't just the food particles, it was shredded paper.

01:47:22.500 --> 01:47:24.460
 There's a high incidence of shredded paper in here.

01:47:24.460 --> 01:47:29.060
 We don't want to pay to sort it or clean it, and so that was one of the things that became

01:47:29.060 --> 01:47:30.060
 unacceptable.

01:47:30.060 --> 01:47:34.900
 Again, our process, Pratt's process, didn't change, the quality standard changed.

01:47:34.900 --> 01:47:39.820
 I'm sorry, you probably were going to get there, I don't want to jump ahead of you anymore.

01:47:39.820 --> 01:47:42.820
 So again, this is where the breakdown happened.

01:47:42.820 --> 01:47:47.660
 What we've done, or what Pratt's done, is they've partied with a new glass recycler

01:47:47.660 --> 01:47:48.660
 out of Houston.

01:47:48.660 --> 01:47:52.020
 This is an option that wouldn't have been there for us a year ago.

01:47:52.020 --> 01:47:56.260
 Strategic Materials is really the biggest glass processor in the United States.

01:47:56.260 --> 01:48:00.540
 They're located in Midlothian, been our partner for a number of years, and they're the ones

01:48:00.540 --> 01:48:04.100
 that basically said we can't accept it anymore.

01:48:04.100 --> 01:48:10.980
 A couple of things, just kind of nuanced differences about what makes these so challenging to recycle.

01:48:10.980 --> 01:48:14.300
 So plastics 3 through 7, these are all sold in mixed bales.

01:48:14.300 --> 01:48:18.500
 So plastics 1 and 2 are typically your water bottles, plastics like this.

01:48:18.500 --> 01:48:22.400
 The market for those is fairly stable, doesn't pay a great deal, but there's steady supply

01:48:22.400 --> 01:48:24.860
 and demand domestically for this.

01:48:24.860 --> 01:48:28.060
 Plastics 3 through 7 are the stuff that it's more of a niche market.

01:48:28.060 --> 01:48:29.940
 So you have fewer buyers.

01:48:29.940 --> 01:48:33.600
 These are sold in mixed bales, and whenever these bales are bought, there's not a guarantee

01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:35.620
 that all of this is going to get recycled.

01:48:35.620 --> 01:48:39.740
 A lot of these recyclers are picking and choosing the material in there that they need.

01:48:39.740 --> 01:48:45.180
 So aside from 1 and 2s, which is down here kind of in this graphic, number 5s are typically

01:48:45.180 --> 01:48:47.420
 what you are seeing in other programs.

01:48:47.420 --> 01:48:53.580
 As programs change, the market dynamics you're seeing, a lot of programs drop 3, 4, 6, and

01:48:53.580 --> 01:48:54.580
 7.

01:48:54.580 --> 01:48:58.340
 When it comes to buyers on the plastics, what that indicates is the type of polymer that's

01:48:58.340 --> 01:49:02.480
 in that material, which is basically a flag to the manufacturer, is if I'm going to make

01:49:02.480 --> 01:49:07.380
 a plastic, number 1, I need a certain type of polymer out of that recyclable.

01:49:07.380 --> 01:49:12.700
 Some of the ones that are more difficult, it's more about not just the supply and demand,

01:49:12.700 --> 01:49:14.100
 it's about the material itself.

01:49:14.100 --> 01:49:18.580
 If it's rigid, if it's brittle, it doesn't handle well when it goes through the process,

01:49:18.580 --> 01:49:22.380
 and that's one of the reasons why that's a little bit difficult.

01:49:22.380 --> 01:49:26.300
 There's two buyers in this market here, only one of which is interested in doing business

01:49:26.300 --> 01:49:32.460
 with new suppliers, that's who Pratt secured the agreement with and started moving materials.

01:49:32.460 --> 01:49:38.300
 One thing real quick on this is we're doing multiple sorts, not we, Pratt is doing multiple

01:49:38.300 --> 01:49:40.100
 sorts on this for that supplier.

01:49:40.100 --> 01:49:44.300
 So we ship them a bail on this, they're giving us feedback, we have to re-sort it, Pratt has

01:49:44.300 --> 01:49:48.100
 to re-sort it multiple times to meet their spec, but that's kind of the process that's

01:49:48.100 --> 01:49:49.820
 going through right now.

01:49:49.820 --> 01:49:56.140
 In terms of glass, we talked about cullet, so again, there's a few regional buyers.

01:49:56.140 --> 01:50:01.220
 I'll show you the price that it pays to, or the price you have to pay to recycle glass

01:50:01.220 --> 01:50:02.220
 now.

01:50:02.220 --> 01:50:05.220
 The economics is really a big deterrent to this.

01:50:05.220 --> 01:50:12.100
 Glass, in terms of the process to recycle those, it's a little bit more labor intensive,

01:50:12.100 --> 01:50:14.100
 requires two different sorts.

01:50:14.100 --> 01:50:19.080
 So in a single stream recycling program like ours, the first sort is to separate the glass

01:50:19.080 --> 01:50:22.260
 from the other recyclables, the contamination.

01:50:22.260 --> 01:50:27.420
 Once it's received at a facility like Strategic Materials, it goes through a second sort where

01:50:27.420 --> 01:50:31.860
 all these little fine cullets get separated by color.

01:50:31.860 --> 01:50:33.580
 They do that using optical sorters.

01:50:33.580 --> 01:50:38.620
 The process is somewhat automated, but it can be costly if there's a lot of contamination

01:50:38.620 --> 01:50:39.620
 in there.

01:50:39.620 --> 01:50:45.380
 And so that's where you're seeing those quality standards come in.

01:50:45.380 --> 01:50:50.060
 In terms of current status, like we said in the program, we do have a buyer in Louisiana

01:50:50.060 --> 01:50:55.860
 for Plastics 337, and we also have that verbal commitment looking like we'll have a solution

01:50:55.860 --> 01:50:58.300
 there in Houston as well.

01:50:58.300 --> 01:51:02.960
 In terms of outlook on those, I think it's anybody's guess.

01:51:02.960 --> 01:51:05.860
 This is something that we want to pay close attention to.

01:51:05.860 --> 01:51:07.380
 These are two volatile markets.

01:51:07.380 --> 01:51:13.460
 I was talking to someone earlier today is glass, depending on where you are and the

01:51:13.460 --> 01:51:18.460
 processors and manufacturing you have in your region, it can be very expensive to transport.

01:51:18.460 --> 01:51:22.740
 And so it's really about who you know in close proximity in the industry in terms of how

01:51:22.740 --> 01:51:26.620
 effective you can be at recycling glass, which is really unfortunate because glass is very

01:51:26.620 --> 01:51:29.980
 easy to recycle once you get it clean and into the system.

01:51:29.980 --> 01:51:32.180
 But we will monitor those.

01:51:32.180 --> 01:51:37.900
 In terms of market updates, we've been kind of providing this price per ton outlook on

01:51:37.900 --> 01:51:38.900
 this each time we met.

01:51:38.900 --> 01:51:45.380
 So the first time we discussed recycling was September 2017, and the results kind of vary.

01:51:45.380 --> 01:51:47.180
 There is some volatility here.

01:51:47.180 --> 01:51:49.980
 Plastics remain fairly low, but it's still moving.

01:51:49.980 --> 01:51:52.220
 Aluminum is probably the most stable.

01:51:52.220 --> 01:51:58.460
 Glass, you actually have to pay on a per ton basis for a facility to accept it.

01:51:58.460 --> 01:52:00.180
 Right now, the market's trading.

01:52:00.180 --> 01:52:03.340
 You basically pay $32.50 for a ton.

01:52:03.340 --> 01:52:07.820
 Perhaps most recent agreement, they were paying $40 a ton just to have strategic accept it.

01:52:07.820 --> 01:52:13.740
 And that's in addition to your hauling costs and logistics that go along with it.

01:52:13.740 --> 01:52:17.660
 Mixed paper's fairly low, cardboard's fairly low, but again, we're somewhat insulated because

01:52:17.660 --> 01:52:19.260
 Pratt runs their own paper mill.

01:52:19.260 --> 01:52:22.220
 So we are fortunate in that regard.

01:52:22.220 --> 01:52:25.260
 The market update, it's not all doom and gloom, but there are some headwinds out there that

01:52:25.260 --> 01:52:27.180
 we need to pay attention to.

01:52:27.180 --> 01:52:30.240
 From a foreign market standpoint, India followed suit with China.

01:52:30.240 --> 01:52:33.500
 They banned imported plastics.

01:52:33.500 --> 01:52:38.260
 Southeast Asia is the remaining backstop out there after China backed out.

01:52:38.260 --> 01:52:40.940
 I don't know how long that's going to last.

01:52:40.940 --> 01:52:46.980
 If you're curious, I would Google Malaysia and recycling, and it's pretty shocking what's

01:52:46.980 --> 01:52:49.700
 happened there in about a year time frame.

01:52:49.700 --> 01:52:53.540
 So I do think it's going to become more and more dependent on the domestic market to find

01:52:53.540 --> 01:52:55.100
 a solution here.

01:52:55.100 --> 01:53:00.720
 The good news is not only do we have investments coming in domestically, we do have Chinese

01:53:00.720 --> 01:53:02.380
 firms that are investing here.

01:53:02.380 --> 01:53:06.580
 They still need the feedstock, they're in manufacturing, so they need the plastics.

01:53:06.580 --> 01:53:09.980
 So there is foreign investment coming into the U.S. for the system as well.

01:53:09.980 --> 01:53:13.940
 Not only that, you also have the federal government as well as state governments proposing bills

01:53:13.940 --> 01:53:19.860
 to try to incentivize manufacturers to utilize recycling feedstock for their processes.

01:53:19.860 --> 01:53:24.820
 So I think it's not going to be fixed overnight, but we are seeing some promising signs in

01:53:24.820 --> 01:53:27.580
 terms of hopefully shoring up the market.

01:53:27.580 --> 01:53:31.780
 A couple of things I will say that we feel pretty confident about is the market's going

01:53:31.780 --> 01:53:34.660
 to be volatile for a period of time moving forward.

01:53:34.660 --> 01:53:37.180
 Again, we are somewhat insulated.

01:53:37.180 --> 01:53:43.740
 Despite the breakdown in communication, our contract is very favorable in terms of materials

01:53:43.740 --> 01:53:48.180
 and the basically financials of it.

01:53:48.180 --> 01:53:52.980
 We have looked at a number of other cities that are basically negotiating contracts right

01:53:52.980 --> 01:53:54.300
 now.

01:53:54.300 --> 01:54:00.820
 We get about $15 a ton in revenue, plus a pretty wide array of program materials.

01:54:00.820 --> 01:54:05.000
 Cities that have much more bargaining power than we do are getting contracts that are

01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:09.460
 much, much less favorable than what we are, and I put a few of these up here on the board.

01:54:09.460 --> 01:54:14.780
 If we were to secure a deal like Savannah, Georgia, who their loan bidder was Pratt,

01:54:14.780 --> 01:54:17.780
 they're paying $95 a ton to move the materials in their program.

01:54:17.780 --> 01:54:22.020
 That's about a million and a half dollar swing if we were to go in that direction.

01:54:22.020 --> 01:54:24.020
 And so it's not ideal.

01:54:24.020 --> 01:54:25.620
 We prefer better communication.

01:54:25.620 --> 01:54:30.860
 I will say that Pratt's been a good partner with us, they've been very communicative,

01:54:30.860 --> 01:54:34.980
 so I'm fortunate with this breakdown, but they are working diligently to help turn this

01:54:34.980 --> 01:54:37.820
 back around for us.

01:54:37.820 --> 01:54:42.140
 We do expect low prices and high quality standards to continue even if the domestic market firms

01:54:42.140 --> 01:54:43.140
 up.

01:54:43.140 --> 01:54:46.580
 One thing's for certain that there's never going to be a market for bad material, dirty

01:54:46.580 --> 01:54:47.580
 material.

01:54:47.580 --> 01:54:51.820
 So that's why our continued approach to contamination is so critical.

01:54:51.820 --> 01:54:56.660
 There may be a market for recyclables, but just not for us to offload trash to those

01:54:56.660 --> 01:54:57.660
 facilities.

01:54:57.660 --> 01:55:01.740
 So to that end, we want to continue recycling all of our program materials in a responsible

01:55:01.740 --> 01:55:02.740
 manner.

01:55:02.740 --> 01:55:06.180
 For residents and businesses, continue the responsible behaviors.

01:55:06.180 --> 01:55:08.380
 Utilize your blue bin as you have.

01:55:08.380 --> 01:55:11.700
 If you're not sure, then check it out, and one of the things that we're going to be trying

01:55:11.700 --> 01:55:15.340
 to do over the next 12 to 18 months is improve our education efforts.

01:55:15.340 --> 01:55:19.700
 We have a robust education program now, but as we mentioned in the earlier presentation,

01:55:19.700 --> 01:55:23.420
 our website -- some of the portals that we can provide in terms of information could

01:55:23.420 --> 01:55:25.500
 be better, and we're going to be working on that.

01:55:25.500 --> 01:55:29.700
 Pratt, in terms of commitments on their side, they have committed to providing any type

01:55:29.700 --> 01:55:35.180
 of change in the program, gets a 48-hour advance notice before anything's enacted.

01:55:35.180 --> 01:55:39.060
 We're also going to be meeting with them monthly to get market and program updates.

01:55:39.060 --> 01:55:40.980
 We meet with them regularly right now.

01:55:40.980 --> 01:55:45.540
 However, for some reason, this didn't come through those communications, and that's what

01:55:45.540 --> 01:55:47.500
 troubled us about it.

01:55:47.500 --> 01:55:52.540
 In terms of solid waste, we are basically in trust and verify mode, is the way we would

01:55:52.540 --> 01:55:53.540
 put it.

01:55:53.540 --> 01:55:59.780
 In terms of inbound, we do random inspections, what we call basically contamination calibrations.

01:55:59.780 --> 01:56:04.100
 Whenever a load hits the floor out there, they give an assessment of this percent contaminated

01:56:04.100 --> 01:56:05.180
 by weight.

01:56:05.180 --> 01:56:08.700
 We want to make sure we're seeing that exactly the way Pratt's seeing it, and if there's

01:56:08.700 --> 01:56:13.040
 differences in opinion, we kind of meet that out with them.

01:56:13.040 --> 01:56:18.180
 Also to that end, we are going to be basically inspecting at least one load per week of anything

01:56:18.180 --> 01:56:20.340
 that's going through the landfill from Pratt.

01:56:20.340 --> 01:56:22.540
 This is an example of that.

01:56:22.540 --> 01:56:26.180
 We'll dump that out, fan it out, and take a look and see if there's materials that could

01:56:26.180 --> 01:56:30.300
 be recycled that are in there in big quantities, and if it is, then we're going to have them

01:56:30.300 --> 01:56:33.940
 answer the question for what happened here.

01:56:33.940 --> 01:56:36.700
 So that's pretty much the high-level presentation.

01:56:36.700 --> 01:56:41.020
 I'm happy to stand for any questions, concerns that you might have.

01:56:41.020 --> 01:56:46.300
 Who wants to go first?

01:56:46.300 --> 01:56:53.980
 Well, I guess I would just encourage you guys to try to stay as keenly aware of what's going

01:56:53.980 --> 01:57:01.300
 on as possible so that we don't have this kind of thing happen again.

01:57:01.300 --> 01:57:08.180
 We should really know what's coming and going from our landfill pretty well.

01:57:08.180 --> 01:57:15.380
 And then I have a question about the picture on page slide six, the bale of plastic.

01:57:15.380 --> 01:57:16.860
 Is that our bale?

01:57:16.860 --> 01:57:17.860
 Yes, it is.

01:57:17.860 --> 01:57:22.900
 It's filled with film, which is not allowed in recycling.

01:57:22.900 --> 01:57:24.380
 Film can be recycled.

01:57:24.380 --> 01:57:30.060
 Now, on some of this, we don't want to encourage folks putting film in there.

01:57:30.060 --> 01:57:36.220
 The biggest reason is what they call a tangler, and so it gets into the gears and the machinery

01:57:36.220 --> 01:57:38.740
 and tangles it up.

01:57:38.740 --> 01:57:42.220
 So whenever you look at -- I forget which one film is.

01:57:42.220 --> 01:57:43.220
 It's one of these in here.

01:57:43.220 --> 01:57:45.140
 It is capable of being recycled.

01:57:45.140 --> 01:57:50.340
 We would much prefer folks to source-separate that and take, let's say, a grocery sack,

01:57:50.340 --> 01:57:51.500
 take that back to the grocery store.

01:57:51.500 --> 01:57:53.780
 They typically recycle that on their own.

01:57:53.780 --> 01:57:55.980
 The problem isn't that it can't be recycled.

01:57:55.980 --> 01:57:59.140
 It's the challenges it presents in the processing equipment.

01:57:59.140 --> 01:58:03.700
 But officially, we don't accept that in our curbside recycling program.

01:58:03.700 --> 01:58:09.700
 Per contract, we do, however, we discourage folks to put it into the single stream container.

01:58:09.700 --> 01:58:10.700
 Okay.

01:58:10.700 --> 01:58:18.380
 Well, we'll take all of your old grocery bags and stuff.

01:58:18.380 --> 01:58:19.380
 Yeah.

01:58:19.380 --> 01:58:20.380
 Well -- oh, are you done?

01:58:20.380 --> 01:58:21.380
 I'm sorry.

01:58:21.380 --> 01:58:22.380
 No, I just have one more question.

01:58:22.380 --> 01:58:23.380
 Okay.

01:58:23.380 --> 01:58:25.520
 On the pie chart on slide four --

01:58:25.520 --> 01:58:26.520
 Yes.

01:58:26.520 --> 01:58:33.620
 -- 44 percent organics, how much -- what percentage of organics do you think we're

01:58:33.620 --> 01:58:37.380
 collecting and disposing of properly?

01:58:37.380 --> 01:58:38.380
 And if they were --

01:58:38.380 --> 01:58:39.380
 Just generally --

01:58:39.380 --> 01:58:40.380
 -- put in the yard waste --

01:58:40.380 --> 01:58:43.380
 Yeah, I mean, that's kind of why I'm bringing it up, because I kind of -- I was like, oh,

01:58:43.380 --> 01:58:44.380
 look at that.

01:58:44.380 --> 01:58:45.380
 How much did we redo?

01:58:45.380 --> 01:58:46.780
 Almost half of what anybody's collecting could actually be diverted --

01:58:46.780 --> 01:58:48.900
 And I think yard waste is built into this.

01:58:48.900 --> 01:58:52.620
 I'll have to go back to that study, but I think yard waste is part of your organics.

01:58:52.620 --> 01:58:53.620
 It's part of that mix.

01:58:53.620 --> 01:58:54.620
 Okay.

01:58:54.620 --> 01:58:57.580
 One of the things I will say that we have not done as a city -- this is kind of a regional

01:58:57.580 --> 01:58:59.160
 waste characterization study.

01:58:59.160 --> 01:59:00.160
 We have not done --

01:59:00.160 --> 01:59:01.160
 A waste sort?

01:59:01.160 --> 01:59:02.380
 -- a waste characterization study just on Denton.

01:59:02.380 --> 01:59:03.380
 Right.

01:59:03.380 --> 01:59:07.460
 So that's something we could consider doing and taking a look at.

01:59:07.460 --> 01:59:13.420
 From us, what we've done to date is basically broken out -- and this is not by material,

01:59:13.420 --> 01:59:17.900
 but it basically kind of shows you a source of the things that we're disposing and diverting.

01:59:17.900 --> 01:59:24.900
 So obviously refuse -- that contains a lot of different things up here, but for organics,

01:59:24.900 --> 01:59:31.120
 we do have commercial organics, which is small volume, but then your yard waste is a significant

01:59:31.120 --> 01:59:32.780
 amount of that.

01:59:32.780 --> 01:59:37.340
 So I think in that regional characterization, they do include both food waste along with

01:59:37.340 --> 01:59:38.340
 other organic products.

01:59:38.340 --> 01:59:39.340
 Okay.

01:59:39.340 --> 01:59:40.340
 In that --

01:59:40.340 --> 01:59:41.340
 So if -- oh, I'm sorry.

01:59:41.340 --> 01:59:42.340
 Go ahead.

01:59:42.340 --> 01:59:43.340
 I just had a quick question.

01:59:43.340 --> 01:59:45.180
 In that same pie chart, what is C and D, 1%?

01:59:45.180 --> 01:59:46.660
 Construction and demolition.

01:59:46.660 --> 01:59:48.060
 And that's generally small.

01:59:48.060 --> 01:59:52.340
 This is a residential waste characterization that's relatively small because most of that's

01:59:52.340 --> 01:59:53.340
 commercial in nature.

01:59:53.340 --> 01:59:54.340
 Yeah.

01:59:54.340 --> 02:00:02.940
 Do you have any construction waste in mind?

02:00:02.940 --> 02:00:03.940
 We hope not.

02:00:03.940 --> 02:00:04.940
 We hope not.

02:00:04.940 --> 02:00:08.060
 So food waste is most likely ending up in residential refuse if they don't have another

02:00:08.060 --> 02:00:09.060
 place to put it.

02:00:09.060 --> 02:00:10.060
 Yes.

02:00:10.060 --> 02:00:11.060
 Okay.

02:00:11.060 --> 02:00:14.060
 That or is put down the disposal drain and then it becomes a biosolid and then it goes

02:00:14.060 --> 02:00:17.420
 into our composting program.

02:00:17.420 --> 02:00:24.220
 I just have to say I was very disappointed to read that article because I asked for it

02:00:24.220 --> 02:00:25.220
 in January.

02:00:25.220 --> 02:00:29.700
 I thought we were getting ahead of this, the whole China market, and then you read in the

02:00:29.700 --> 02:00:34.700
 newspaper that they've been putting it in the landfill, the timing was horrible.

02:00:34.700 --> 02:00:38.700
 We just started telling people we're going to look in your garbage can.

02:00:38.700 --> 02:00:41.740
 Just -- I know you're the messenger.

02:00:41.740 --> 02:00:42.740
 Take it with --

02:00:42.740 --> 02:00:44.780
 We share that with you.

02:00:44.780 --> 02:00:45.780
 Yeah.

02:00:45.780 --> 02:00:46.780
 Wow.

02:00:46.780 --> 02:00:50.780
 I think their timing couldn't have been worse.

02:00:50.780 --> 02:00:51.780
 Agreed.

02:00:51.780 --> 02:00:52.780
 Yeah.

02:00:52.780 --> 02:01:01.180
 So in essence, they're saying that it's -- I mean, it kind of sounds like they're saying

02:01:01.180 --> 02:01:07.660
 that it's our fault that all that we were giving them was contaminated.

02:01:07.660 --> 02:01:09.180
 I don't think so.

02:01:09.180 --> 02:01:13.260
 I think it's changing the quality standard is what it's -- it's a moving target right

02:01:13.260 --> 02:01:15.100
 now with contamination.

02:01:15.100 --> 02:01:20.860
 So what was perfectly acceptable in the recycling stream two years ago is suddenly no good,

02:01:20.860 --> 02:01:21.860
 and I think that's --

02:01:21.860 --> 02:01:29.580
 We're going to have to start changing that as far as, you know, making sure that, yeah,

02:01:29.580 --> 02:01:35.460
 that what we do put into recyclables is cleaner than what we've been doing because of that.

02:01:35.460 --> 02:01:39.580
 I think that's -- that's the general direction we want to give the public is be mindful,

02:01:39.580 --> 02:01:41.860
 you know, clean out the peanut butter jar.

02:01:41.860 --> 02:01:43.620
 Don't put stuff in there that doesn't belong.

02:01:43.620 --> 02:01:46.140
 If there's a question, verify it.

02:01:46.140 --> 02:01:49.700
 That being said, you know, in talking to Pratt, they don't want folks changing their behaviors.

02:01:49.700 --> 02:01:52.380
 The last thing we want is for someone to say, "Well, it's going to the landfill anyway,

02:01:52.380 --> 02:01:54.540
 so I'm just going to put it in the trash container."

02:01:54.540 --> 02:01:55.540
 They don't want that.

02:01:55.540 --> 02:01:56.540
 We don't want that.

02:01:56.540 --> 02:01:57.540
 That was my fear.

02:01:57.540 --> 02:01:58.540
 And --

02:01:58.540 --> 02:01:59.540
 And unfortunately, I think some of that is happening.

02:01:59.540 --> 02:02:00.540
 So we need to --

02:02:00.540 --> 02:02:01.540
 I understand that.

02:02:01.540 --> 02:02:02.540
 -- get back out and educate.

02:02:02.540 --> 02:02:06.220
 I think folks get frustrated any time they see news like this, and that's understandable.

02:02:06.220 --> 02:02:09.980
 And I think that was really the context in most of the discussions that we've had with

02:02:09.980 --> 02:02:14.620
 Pratt is, you know, we don't want folks changing their behavior, but that's ultimately up to

02:02:14.620 --> 02:02:19.380
 the citizen to decide, not for us to decide based on not informing them.

02:02:19.380 --> 02:02:23.380
 And so I think it's one of those things that we've got to trust our citizens with bad news

02:02:23.380 --> 02:02:27.540
 that they're going to do the responsible thing, which is recycle the right way and continue

02:02:27.540 --> 02:02:30.100
 to stay dedicated to the program.

02:02:30.100 --> 02:02:35.260
 Because ultimately, really, it's -- you know, once we turn that stuff over to them, they

02:02:35.260 --> 02:02:36.900
 can do whatever they want with it.

02:02:36.900 --> 02:02:37.900
 It's theirs, contractually.

02:02:37.900 --> 02:02:38.900
 Yeah.

02:02:38.900 --> 02:02:39.900
 It's theirs.

02:02:39.900 --> 02:02:44.860
 And so, I mean, moving forward -- and I know it's 2027 when their contract is up.

02:02:44.860 --> 02:02:47.860
 Is that something that can be stipulated in a new contract?

02:02:47.860 --> 02:02:52.900
 Are other municipalities doing that, where they say, you know, well, you can take our

02:02:52.900 --> 02:02:55.980
 recyclables, but they have to go to recycling?

02:02:55.980 --> 02:02:58.460
 They can't be put in any landfill.

02:02:58.460 --> 02:03:01.860
 I think the challenge with that is there's no guarantees in any commodity market, any

02:03:01.860 --> 02:03:08.100
 market for that matter, is at a certain point, if you can't move the material and you can't

02:03:08.100 --> 02:03:11.380
 landfill it, then stockpiling is the option.

02:03:11.380 --> 02:03:15.020
 And from a regulatory standpoint, you really can't stockpile.

02:03:15.020 --> 02:03:18.460
 Some facilities took to that after this hit, saying we'll hold out until the market turns

02:03:18.460 --> 02:03:19.460
 around.

02:03:19.460 --> 02:03:22.020
 Well, we're almost two years -- or a year and a half in.

02:03:22.020 --> 02:03:26.060
 The market hasn't turned, and what ended up happening, I think, was the FCC facility in

02:03:26.060 --> 02:03:30.500
 Dallas actually caught on fire with huge amounts of stockpiles.

02:03:30.500 --> 02:03:37.060
 And so, you do have to provide some consideration for them that if it's not movable in the market,

02:03:37.060 --> 02:03:40.700
 then we may need to allow that to happen.

02:03:40.700 --> 02:03:41.700
 The biggest change is --

02:03:41.700 --> 02:03:46.220
 They get up and they walk out, and you're stuck with the whole thing sitting right there.

02:03:46.220 --> 02:03:48.980
 Yeah, you don't want to run one of these folks out of business.

02:03:48.980 --> 02:03:53.540
 I think the difference with us and Pratt -- understand that Pratt's not like Republic or Waste Management

02:03:53.540 --> 02:03:54.540
 or Waste Connections.

02:03:54.540 --> 02:03:55.540
 They don't own landfills.

02:03:55.540 --> 02:04:01.500
 So, we get a heightened sense of visibility to what they're doing that maybe someone that

02:04:01.500 --> 02:04:04.660
 has a Republic or someone servicing them, they just don't get to see it.

02:04:04.660 --> 02:04:09.420
 So, we get to see it, you know, good, bad, and ugly sometimes, and again, I think the

02:04:09.420 --> 02:04:14.300
 biggest thing here, Ms. Bynum, is that they should have told us, "Hey, this was going

02:04:14.300 --> 02:04:15.300
 to happen."

02:04:15.300 --> 02:04:16.300
 I agree.

02:04:16.300 --> 02:04:17.300
 And I think if that had happened --

02:04:17.300 --> 02:04:20.820
 That's the biggest issue was communication, because then you could have gotten ahead of

02:04:20.820 --> 02:04:21.820
 it and --

02:04:21.820 --> 02:04:26.300
 And I think that message has been delivered time and time again, and I think they definitely

02:04:26.300 --> 02:04:31.100
 understand that, and they're definitely making adjustments in accordance with it.

02:04:31.100 --> 02:04:36.740
 Am I right in remembering that originally you contracted with Trinity Industries, and

02:04:36.740 --> 02:04:39.020
 they used their own trucks for recycling?

02:04:39.020 --> 02:04:40.300
 For the collection side of things.

02:04:40.300 --> 02:04:41.300
 That's correct.

02:04:41.300 --> 02:04:42.300
 Is that right, Tina?

02:04:42.300 --> 02:04:43.300
 Trinity?

02:04:43.300 --> 02:04:47.620
 But they didn't do the actual selling to the commodity market?

02:04:47.620 --> 02:04:48.620
 No.

02:04:48.620 --> 02:04:50.540
 Pratt's been our material recovery facility.

02:04:50.540 --> 02:04:51.540
 Okay.

02:04:51.540 --> 02:04:53.580
 I was just remembering the Trinity trucks.

02:04:53.580 --> 02:04:57.740
 And I have read other articles where -- I mean, this is happening in a lot of communities.

02:04:57.740 --> 02:05:00.220
 There's one that has a waste energy facility.

02:05:00.220 --> 02:05:02.860
 I came from a waste energy facility.

02:05:02.860 --> 02:05:08.540
 They're starting to burn the paper and the cardboard, because that's the most economical

02:05:08.540 --> 02:05:11.860
 least damage that they can do, so it happens.

02:05:11.860 --> 02:05:13.740
 It's just the communication.

02:05:13.740 --> 02:05:17.480
 The one thing I'll say, and I try not to read the press clippings too often, but there was

02:05:17.480 --> 02:05:21.580
 an article in the newspaper, I think it was an opinion piece a couple days ago, that said,

02:05:21.580 --> 02:05:26.580
 you know, we're at a crossroads, we're in dire straits, and that's really not our assessment

02:05:26.580 --> 02:05:28.260
 in terms of where we are with our program.

02:05:28.260 --> 02:05:29.260
 Could things be better?

02:05:29.260 --> 02:05:30.260
 Absolutely.

02:05:30.260 --> 02:05:34.840
 But I think all things considered, we've weathered most of what we've seen thus far fairly well

02:05:34.840 --> 02:05:40.740
 relative to others like Philadelphia and other programs that are having to step away from

02:05:40.740 --> 02:05:43.020
 their programs entirely.

02:05:43.020 --> 02:05:44.960
 Part of that is our contract with Pratt.

02:05:44.960 --> 02:05:48.020
 Part of it's where we are from a location standpoint.

02:05:48.020 --> 02:05:51.880
 Part of this, we have a pretty decent program, all things considered.

02:05:51.880 --> 02:05:55.460
 We just need to clean up our contamination a little bit, and I think we'll be positioned

02:05:55.460 --> 02:05:59.260
 well now, as well as what's coming to us down the road.

02:05:59.260 --> 02:06:06.620
 Are you going to be sending out another flyer or informational flyer that doesn't have a

02:06:06.620 --> 02:06:08.700
 typo on it?

02:06:08.700 --> 02:06:09.700
 We're planning on it.

02:06:09.700 --> 02:06:10.700
 Certainly.

02:06:10.700 --> 02:06:13.020
 Sorry to bring that up.

02:06:13.020 --> 02:06:15.740
 We want to get through these presentations first, we want to make sure that we're all

02:06:15.740 --> 02:06:16.740
 in alignment.

02:06:16.740 --> 02:06:22.340
 Again, our approach to this is we keep the program materials the same, we move forward

02:06:22.340 --> 02:06:25.940
 with education, and then we'll start getting a lot of that stuff out there to the community

02:06:25.940 --> 02:06:26.940
 again.

02:06:26.940 --> 02:06:30.220
 I think education is going to be pretty central.

02:06:30.220 --> 02:06:34.500
 I'm sorry, I have a couple more things.

02:06:34.500 --> 02:06:35.500
 Oh, go ahead.

02:06:35.500 --> 02:06:42.020
 Well, you kind of brought it up about burning the waste.

02:06:42.020 --> 02:06:49.000
 How would you respond to somebody in the community as a solid waste professional?

02:06:49.000 --> 02:06:56.420
 How would you respond to them saying or suggesting that recycling is a waste of effort, a waste

02:06:56.420 --> 02:07:04.420
 of money, a waste of resources, and that, in fact, it would be cheaper and better just

02:07:04.420 --> 02:07:06.600
 to landfill all of this stuff?

02:07:06.600 --> 02:07:13.740
 I think it goes back to the, I think I have it here, let me see, I don't have it here,

02:07:13.740 --> 02:07:19.020
 but essentially whenever you look at recycling, it's not just an economics decision.

02:07:19.020 --> 02:07:24.500
 I think we are getting to a point where the financial realities of recycling is going

02:07:24.500 --> 02:07:25.500
 to kind of come home.

02:07:25.500 --> 02:07:29.380
 We have to start paying for recycling much like we do for waste disposal.

02:07:29.380 --> 02:07:33.420
 We're insulated from that right now because of our contract, but it is coming.

02:07:33.420 --> 02:07:35.740
 Most communities are dealing with that right now.

02:07:35.740 --> 02:07:41.940
 So really, it comes down to value proposition or kind of, I guess, an individual approach

02:07:41.940 --> 02:07:46.380
 to things is there are people in our community that do a tremendous amount of work to recycle

02:07:46.380 --> 02:07:47.380
 the right way.

02:07:47.380 --> 02:07:51.380
 I think there's also folks in our community that look at it and say, "I prefer not to."

02:07:51.380 --> 02:07:56.280
 We've been in customer service for a number of years, we heard those sentiments firsthand.

02:07:56.280 --> 02:08:01.780
 I think it's really about what is important to you, what's your value system individually.

02:08:01.780 --> 02:08:05.620
 We certainly feel like, as an organization, that this is important.

02:08:05.620 --> 02:08:09.740
 Obviously, we own our own landfills, so we want to keep stuff out of there as much as

02:08:09.740 --> 02:08:10.740
 we can.

02:08:10.740 --> 02:08:14.140
 But we also know that we can't make those decisions in a vacuum when everyone gets a

02:08:14.140 --> 02:08:15.140
 say at it.

02:08:15.140 --> 02:08:20.160
 And so there's the sustainability piece, there's the environmental piece, which is the reduction

02:08:20.160 --> 02:08:23.380
 of raw materials, the emissions, all that that goes into it.

02:08:23.380 --> 02:08:27.580
 I think when we visited about this last time, our recycling program takes the equivalent

02:08:27.580 --> 02:08:30.220
 of about 4,000 cars off the road every year.

02:08:30.220 --> 02:08:31.220
 So I think-

02:08:31.220 --> 02:08:32.220
 And that's huge.

02:08:32.220 --> 02:08:33.220
 It is big.

02:08:33.220 --> 02:08:36.300
 And greenhouse gas emissions, not just from what happens at the landfill, but the sourcing

02:08:36.300 --> 02:08:40.260
 of these materials, not everyone's going to look at that the same way.

02:08:40.260 --> 02:08:44.340
 So our approach is we definitely want folks to do this responsibly, but if they're not

02:08:44.340 --> 02:08:49.300
 into the program, don't abuse it and don't take advantage of it towards the efforts of

02:08:49.300 --> 02:08:50.980
 others.

02:08:50.980 --> 02:08:52.300
 Right.

02:08:52.300 --> 02:09:00.420
 Within the industry, has anybody done a significant study that suggests that, using an example

02:09:00.420 --> 02:09:09.420
 you gave, that if everybody washes out their peanut butter jar with hot water and a rag

02:09:09.420 --> 02:09:16.140
 and then recycles it, and then that we're still beating the environmental edge there,

02:09:16.140 --> 02:09:21.660
 we've used hot water, we've washed the rag, we're using soap, I mean, has anybody really

02:09:21.660 --> 02:09:26.140
 done something to say that, "Hey, we're still beating the curve on this environmental thing,"

02:09:26.140 --> 02:09:32.900
 because all of those are things that are being used to get that recyclable product back into

02:09:32.900 --> 02:09:33.900
 that commodity market.

02:09:33.900 --> 02:09:36.100
 I can't cite a specific study, Brian.

02:09:36.100 --> 02:09:37.100
 Do you have one in mind?

02:09:37.100 --> 02:09:40.180
 I mean, I apologize, but to me, that's a reality.

02:09:40.180 --> 02:09:44.620
 If everybody's working at home to take the labels off their glass and clean out the peanut,

02:09:44.620 --> 02:09:46.660
 you ever clean out a peanut butter jar?

02:09:46.660 --> 02:09:47.660
 Yes.

02:09:47.660 --> 02:09:48.660
 It's not easy.

02:09:48.660 --> 02:09:53.660
 It's not easy, and again, it's a moving target because the way we heated water 10 years ago

02:09:53.660 --> 02:10:00.540
 is a lot more inefficient and a lot more environmentally unfriendly than how we do it today with whatever

02:10:00.540 --> 02:10:01.880
 method you're using.

02:10:01.880 --> 02:10:04.420
 So again, there's a lot of things that are moving.

02:10:04.420 --> 02:10:07.500
 At the end of the day, though, it goes back to what Ethan was saying, it's about resource

02:10:07.500 --> 02:10:08.500
 management.

02:10:08.500 --> 02:10:14.620
 And again, if we can provide an opportunity to create an area where we have resources

02:10:14.620 --> 02:10:18.300
 available as opposed to raw material, then by all means, let's do that.

02:10:18.300 --> 02:10:21.500
 We're saving it from an environmental standpoint, and if you do a full cost accounting at the

02:10:21.500 --> 02:10:26.540
 end of the day, I think recycling will still be a net benefit to the environment even after

02:10:26.540 --> 02:10:27.540
 going through all these steps.

02:10:27.540 --> 02:10:28.540
 Okay.

02:10:28.540 --> 02:10:29.540
 Okay.

02:10:29.540 --> 02:10:30.540
 Brian.

02:10:30.540 --> 02:10:31.540
 Well, I'm a strong proponent of recycling.

02:10:31.540 --> 02:10:32.540
 Of course you are.

02:10:32.540 --> 02:10:36.540
 I just, you know, these things, as I'm sitting there trying to clean out my peanut butter

02:10:36.540 --> 02:10:37.540
 jar.

02:10:37.540 --> 02:10:38.540
 Is this clean enough?

02:10:38.540 --> 02:10:39.540
 Right.

02:10:39.540 --> 02:10:44.360
 Well, the one thing I will say to that, not necessarily to the system that you were mentioning,

02:10:44.360 --> 02:10:49.940
 but we also don't need to lose sight of the reduce and reuse side of this thing, is recycling

02:10:49.940 --> 02:10:52.100
 is the end of the life cycle.

02:10:52.100 --> 02:10:56.380
 It's a fork in the road for a product that either gets disposed or recycled, and in some

02:10:56.380 --> 02:11:00.780
 cases, like with plastics, it can only be recycled a few times effectively.

02:11:00.780 --> 02:11:04.460
 And so I think that's something else that we want to talk about, especially when you

02:11:04.460 --> 02:11:07.260
 look at a lot of the plastics that are in the system.

02:11:07.260 --> 02:11:10.700
 We can have an exceptional recycling program, but there's still going to be waste coming

02:11:10.700 --> 02:11:11.700
 out of it.

02:11:11.700 --> 02:11:14.700
 And so I think something else for us to keep in mind.

02:11:14.700 --> 02:11:15.700
 Yep.

02:11:15.700 --> 02:11:16.700
 Reduce, reuse, then recycle.

02:11:16.700 --> 02:11:17.700
 In that order, yes.

02:11:17.700 --> 02:11:18.700
 Thanks.

02:11:18.700 --> 02:11:19.700
 Yep.

02:11:19.700 --> 02:11:20.700
 Don't create in the first place.

02:11:20.700 --> 02:11:21.700
 Yeah.

02:11:21.700 --> 02:11:22.700
 Other questions?

02:11:22.700 --> 02:11:23.700
 Get what you need.

02:11:23.700 --> 02:11:24.700
 Appreciate the time.

02:11:24.700 --> 02:11:25.700
 Thank you.

02:11:25.700 --> 02:11:26.700
 Just for the PB's benefit, all of these three work session items will be presented tomorrow

02:11:26.700 --> 02:11:27.700
 at council.

02:11:27.700 --> 02:11:28.700
 Okay.

02:11:28.700 --> 02:11:29.700
 Oh.

02:11:29.700 --> 02:11:34.700
 So just, we wanted to come to you all first and then go to council.

02:11:34.700 --> 02:11:37.820
 Thank you.

02:11:37.820 --> 02:11:43.700
 Work session begins at 11.30 a.m.

02:11:43.700 --> 02:11:44.700
 Okay.

02:11:44.700 --> 02:11:45.700
 All right.

02:11:45.700 --> 02:11:53.260
 Items for individual consideration, the public utility minutes.

02:11:53.260 --> 02:11:56.900
 Did anyone have any changes or corrections?

02:11:56.900 --> 02:11:58.420
 Okay.

02:11:58.420 --> 02:12:01.660
 Having none, they'll stand approved as presented.

02:12:01.660 --> 02:12:08.660
 The next item is consider recommending approval of a resolution appointing a member of the,

02:12:08.660 --> 02:12:14.700
 to the board of directors of the Texas Municipal Power Agency, a joint powers agency representing

02:12:14.700 --> 02:12:18.740
 the city of Denton, Texas, and declaring effective date.

02:12:18.740 --> 02:12:23.940
 PB members, my name is Tony Buent, I'm the chief financial officer for the city.

02:12:23.940 --> 02:12:31.860
 This item is to appoint a member for a two, for a new two year term.

02:12:31.860 --> 02:12:35.940
 The current appointee is Mayor Chris Watts.

02:12:35.940 --> 02:12:43.180
 The mayor has stated that he was, he'd be willing to continue to serve for an additional

02:12:43.180 --> 02:12:44.180
 two years.

02:12:44.180 --> 02:12:50.700
 There is no requirement that that appointee be a elected official of the city.

02:12:50.700 --> 02:12:57.420
 We do have a second appointee and they're, they serve staggered terms, so the other appointee

02:12:57.420 --> 02:13:00.560
 is Mr. Bill Cheek.

02:13:00.560 --> 02:13:06.340
 So the TNPA board is made up of eight board members, two from each of the participating

02:13:06.340 --> 02:13:08.060
 municipalities.

02:13:08.060 --> 02:13:12.420
 The mayor's current term expires on July 18th.

02:13:12.420 --> 02:13:19.260
 We are here to, to one, see if, what the PB's recommendation is regarding the mayor's appointment.

02:13:19.260 --> 02:13:24.980
 So I'd be clear too that, that is, you know, that is the mayor wanting to be, or asking

02:13:24.980 --> 02:13:29.660
 to be reappointed, you know, but certainly if there are other recommendations, we're

02:13:29.660 --> 02:13:33.340
 open to hear that as well from the, from the board today.

02:13:33.340 --> 02:13:35.500
 How many terms has he served already?

02:13:35.500 --> 02:13:38.260
 He's, he's been on the board since 2009.

02:13:38.260 --> 02:13:42.300
 And is, are there expiry to those, I mean, can he continue to serve?

02:13:42.300 --> 02:13:43.300
 Correct.

02:13:43.300 --> 02:13:44.300
 There's no term limits on that.

02:13:44.300 --> 02:13:45.300
 There's no term limits.

02:13:45.300 --> 02:13:50.780
 Well, and I, I know that he's most qualified and he got us through some very difficult

02:13:50.780 --> 02:13:51.780
 times.

02:13:51.780 --> 02:13:54.860
 So I'm inclined to support that resolution.

02:13:54.860 --> 02:13:55.860
 So we need a motion.

02:13:55.860 --> 02:13:56.860
 Yep.

02:13:56.860 --> 02:13:57.860
 We're trying to get this thing rolling.

02:13:57.860 --> 02:13:58.860
 Oh, did you say motion?

02:13:58.860 --> 02:13:59.860
 No, I need a motion.

02:13:59.860 --> 02:14:00.860
 Oh, so moved.

02:14:00.860 --> 02:14:01.860
 Second.

02:14:01.860 --> 02:14:02.860
 All in favor say aye.

02:14:02.860 --> 02:14:03.860
 Aye.

02:14:03.860 --> 02:14:04.860
 That carries.

02:14:04.860 --> 02:14:05.860
 Okay.

02:14:05.860 --> 02:14:13.980
 Consider recommending an approval of a resolution appointing Frank Pugsley as the city's representative

02:14:13.980 --> 02:14:18.860
 to serve as a member of the Board of Directors of the Upper Trinity Regional Water District

02:14:18.860 --> 02:14:22.820
 and providing an effective date.

02:14:22.820 --> 02:14:23.820
 Evening board members.

02:14:23.820 --> 02:14:38.660
 Give me a second to pull this presentation up.

02:14:38.660 --> 02:14:45.180
 So just say a quick background on this particular item, the city of Denton is a member of the

02:14:45.180 --> 02:14:47.420
 Upper Trinity Regional Water District.

02:14:47.420 --> 02:14:52.100
 They're a state charter district that is authorized to provide water, wastewater services, also

02:14:52.100 --> 02:14:55.860
 provide a little bit of stormwater and watershed protection as well.

02:14:55.860 --> 02:14:58.820
 The Board of Directors is a decision making body.

02:14:58.820 --> 02:15:02.340
 They're responsible for developing funding and implementing regional water and wastewater

02:15:02.340 --> 02:15:08.620
 systems and they have board members that are representative of the member cities that exist

02:15:08.620 --> 02:15:12.820
 within the area served by Upper Trinity Regional Water District.

02:15:12.820 --> 02:15:20.780
 So Mr. Tim Fisher, who was our former director of water, has recently retired and had actually

02:15:20.780 --> 02:15:26.220
 served on Denton's as Denton's board representative since 2001.

02:15:26.220 --> 02:15:33.260
 So we're in the shopping around for a new representative on the board, Mr. Pugsley drew

02:15:33.260 --> 02:15:43.260
 the short straw and is now the has indicated a desire and allegedly an interest to fill

02:15:43.260 --> 02:15:44.260
 the position.

02:15:44.260 --> 02:15:53.300
 So upon the appointment, he will be able to fulfill the remainder of Mr. Fisher's term.

02:15:53.300 --> 02:16:01.540
 That term will end on May 31st of 2021 and he'll be eligible at that point to be reappointed

02:16:01.540 --> 02:16:04.660
 for another four year term with a resolution.

02:16:04.660 --> 02:16:10.680
 We have traditionally done these through a resolution that is brought before the board

02:16:10.680 --> 02:16:14.180
 and then is taken to the council for final approval.

02:16:14.180 --> 02:16:17.860
 Once that resolution is completed, it will be provided to the secretary of the Upper

02:16:17.860 --> 02:16:25.380
 Trinity Board and then they will vote to appoint Mr. Pugsley upon receipt of that or at their

02:16:25.380 --> 02:16:27.180
 next available meeting.

02:16:27.180 --> 02:16:32.540
 So that's all I have, I'd be glad to answer any questions that you might have.

02:16:32.540 --> 02:16:33.540
 Questions?

02:16:33.540 --> 02:16:34.540
 All right.

02:16:34.540 --> 02:16:35.700
 Do we have a motion?

02:16:35.700 --> 02:16:36.700
 So moved.

02:16:36.700 --> 02:16:37.700
 Second.

02:16:37.700 --> 02:16:38.700
 All in favor say aye.

02:16:38.700 --> 02:16:39.700
 Aye.

02:16:39.700 --> 02:16:40.700
 That one carries.

02:16:40.700 --> 02:16:41.700
 ACM update.

02:16:41.700 --> 02:16:54.020
 Yes, Madam Chair, members of the board, real quick update, in your packet you have a memorandum

02:16:54.020 --> 02:16:58.820
 to the board regarding some questions that were brought up at your last meeting about

02:16:58.820 --> 02:17:06.460
 attendance policy and talking with the city secretary, like this, I think strange, the

02:17:06.460 --> 02:17:11.980
 microphone is, and talking with the city secretary, that request stemmed from a request from city

02:17:11.980 --> 02:17:19.220
 council on attendance of not only the council but of their boards and commissions and Rosa

02:17:19.220 --> 02:17:24.100
 Rios as our new city secretary has been on the job about just under two months and so

02:17:24.100 --> 02:17:28.980
 she's going through a comprehensive review of our boards and commissions manual along

02:17:28.980 --> 02:17:33.280
 with just all the policies and procedures as any good new manager would do just to make

02:17:33.280 --> 02:17:42.620
 sure that everything's running appropriately and smoothly and so just looking through the

02:17:42.620 --> 02:17:47.500
 policies and procedures for the boards and commissions noted that the attendance should

02:17:47.500 --> 02:17:52.140
 be reported to council on a quarterly basis and it had been reported on a yearly basis

02:17:52.140 --> 02:17:58.020
 so what she's doing is just making sure that we're following the policies that have been

02:17:58.020 --> 02:18:02.400
 in place for the last number of years so it's just really more house cleaning housekeeping

02:18:02.400 --> 02:18:08.060
 kind of things and so that's why that was passed on to to the board members and committees

02:18:08.060 --> 02:18:09.060
 across the organization.

02:18:09.060 --> 02:18:11.300
 It's a policy we should be following it.

02:18:11.300 --> 02:18:15.900
 We need to come up with our own procedure for collecting that information and reporting

02:18:15.900 --> 02:18:22.220
 it or no sir I believe Kim Makin a recording secretary keeps track of attendance and so

02:18:22.220 --> 02:18:27.420
 that'll be reported to to the city secretary's office and and then reported to council as

02:18:27.420 --> 02:18:34.380
 needed she does a very good job of that again a couple of things you've got your future

02:18:34.380 --> 02:18:39.220
 agenda list a lot of budget items that you'll be hearing over the next number of weeks as

02:18:39.220 --> 02:18:45.220
 you as you conduct your meetings over the next throughout the summer the new business

02:18:45.220 --> 02:18:50.020
 matrix again we covered the item about the question the attendance policy I know there's

02:18:50.020 --> 02:18:55.100
 an item there about future PUB meetings we're bringing that to you all in an upcoming meeting

02:18:55.100 --> 02:19:00.220
 to discuss and see what options you all would like to consider and then the last thing is

02:19:00.220 --> 02:19:06.700
 not on your agenda and I don't know how many folks on the board are aware but George Morrow

02:19:06.700 --> 02:19:12.180
 our general manager for DME he announced his retirement earlier this month believe effective

02:19:12.180 --> 02:19:18.700
 June 1st of this year so just wanted you to be made aware of that that's why you saw Tony

02:19:18.700 --> 02:19:23.780
 Puente up at the podium to discuss the appointment for the TMPA board member actually Tony will

02:19:23.780 --> 02:19:30.060
 be the interim general manager until we go and recruit a successor to Mr. Morrow so just

02:19:30.060 --> 02:19:38.580
 wanted to pass that information on to you so you were aware thank you thank you just

02:19:38.580 --> 02:19:46.540
 go back to the attendance thing so we need to tell Kim if we're going to be absent or

02:19:46.540 --> 02:20:00.140
 we tell you ideally it would be great because I know Kim sends out the agendas ahead of

02:20:00.140 --> 02:20:05.420
 time once it's posted so it'd be best to send it to Kim and the only reason why I say

02:20:05.420 --> 02:20:13.060
 that is excuse me if you by chance copy the entire board just because it's what you do

02:20:13.060 --> 02:20:17.580
 you could be violating the Texas Open Meetings Act especially someone replies all so it'd

02:20:17.580 --> 02:20:22.460
 just be best just to email Kim you're certainly welcome to email me if you'd like and we'll

02:20:22.460 --> 02:20:25.780
 make note of that and quite honestly it's really just to make sure we have a quorum

02:20:25.780 --> 02:20:30.220
 yeah I was gonna say then she'll know if we have a quorum and then but now now there's

02:20:30.220 --> 02:20:37.020
 a category of excused or unexcused it's always been there yeah but we just have never paid

02:20:37.020 --> 02:20:41.140
 attention to it right somebody's gonna need to determine you're always in the hospital

02:20:41.140 --> 02:20:47.660
 or something like it's been determined it has been determined in the in the policy yeah

02:20:47.660 --> 02:20:53.940
 no I know it's always been there yeah nobody's made the determination actually made the determination

02:20:53.940 --> 02:21:02.620
 against the gray area of politics okay on to concluding items is there any items that

02:21:02.620 --> 02:21:14.660
 a board member would like to be put on a future agenda or any comments yeah Lily and I were

02:21:14.660 --> 02:21:20.540
 given a tour of the facilities on Friday absolutely delightful and we just wanted to go on record

02:21:20.540 --> 02:21:26.060
 as thanking the staff so I have the business cards I just like to read the names into the

02:21:26.060 --> 02:21:31.900
 record sure so Vanessa Ellison actually drove us around she's the sustainability coordinator

02:21:31.900 --> 02:21:43.900
 Brian Barner rusty Willard Frank Pugsley deputy director of wastewater Hector Ortiz and David

02:21:43.900 --> 02:21:49.340
 Hunter he gives a really good tour of the sewage plant by the way we haven't done that

02:21:49.340 --> 02:21:55.140
 recently we wanted to thank them for the time that they took out of their usual work and

02:21:55.140 --> 02:22:00.740
 their enthusiasm for their jobs yeah wanted that to go into the record I just wanted to

02:22:00.740 --> 02:22:06.540
 add that everything that that you said but also to include that it really I haven't toured

02:22:06.540 --> 02:22:11.540
 for about 20 years that was the last time I toured and it was just it was delightful

02:22:11.540 --> 02:22:19.820
 to see how innovative and forward-thinking our process is here in Denton and it's it

02:22:19.820 --> 02:22:25.780
 was yeah it was really I left there going oh this is wonderful and so everyone should

02:22:25.780 --> 02:22:32.220
 go on these tours I took my daughter who's a sustainability major at UT yeah she's gonna

02:22:32.220 --> 02:22:40.340
 be taking all that stuff back to Austin and comparing their solid waste I feel sorry for

02:22:40.340 --> 02:22:50.140
 them well I'm sorry I couldn't go I was supposed to go but something came up with another volunteer

02:22:50.140 --> 02:22:59.900
 opportunity that I have that I had to handle so all right any other items motion to adjourn