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 We do have a quorum, and it is six o'clock.

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 It's time to call the Public Utilities Board meeting of May 20th to order.

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 First, and Alan called me at four o'clock.

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 He had a family emergency come up.

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 That's why he's not present today.

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 The first item is receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding

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 the Denton Energy Center external sound level study.

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 Chris.

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 Yes, ma'am.

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 Can't see these days, so.

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 Yeah.

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 Well, good evening, PUB members.

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 Have a presentation here for you and kind of give you some, it's kind of an atypical

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 presentation so that the basis for this presentation is a sound issue that was brought to our attention

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 by an adjacent landowner or adjacent resident, homeowner, adjacent to the Denton Energy's

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 property.

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 I want to kind of preface this as I've worked my way through it and I get in here and I

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 use the word complaint.

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 Complaint probably isn't the proper word.

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 So as you know, most of you have been here through the construction of the deck, a very

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 large project, so he was a neighbor for about 18 months to the city's largest construction

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 project and we never heard a word out of him.

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 So in meeting him and talking to him, he thinks the project is a good project and he's on

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 board with it.

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 There's just some issues, which I use that word a lot, issue that he has with it that

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 he would like resolved.

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 So I use the word complaint in my presentation, but as I thought about it, I didn't think

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 it was justified because the gentleman has been very professional, very courteous and

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 he just wants the issue resolved.

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 So as the title says, we're here to talk about external sound level study.

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 So background, so to get started on this, DME received an issue by the homeowner that's

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 immediately adjacent to the Denton Energy Center in November 2018.

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 So his property is just northwest, he abuts up to the plant's property right off of Jim

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 Crystal.

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 So I'll back up a little bit and give you the basis of his issue and I have to back

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 up a couple more years.

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 So prior, during the planning stages of the Denton Energy Center, some DME staff approached

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 the landowner and ensured him that the plant would not be a noise nuisance or any kind

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 of nuisance to him.

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 So as I look back in that, the DME staff at that point, the plan was to only have six

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 engines at that site on Jim Crystal and six engines would be located north.

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 So at that point, there would be half the sound there is now, half the light there is

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 now, half the footprint there is now.

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 So an oversight on the DME staff as it went through the approval process and the city

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 council ultimately elected to put all 12 engines at the site of Jim Crystal, then the repercussions

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 of that or any noise level increase, light level increase, that information was not taken

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 back to the homeowner.

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 So that's the basis of his issue is he feels he was misled.

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 So going back to the current day, his particular issue is when he's at home and the deck is

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 operating in the evening or in the early morning, he can hear the plant running in his house

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 and he feels that he was misled because that was not going to be the case.

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 So the noise he's hearing is if anybody's been on a cruise ship, it's just that rhythmic

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 thumping that you hear on a cruise ship.

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 So if you're on a cruise ship, more than likely that was a Wartzilla engine powering that

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 ship.

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 We have 12 of them.

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 So that is the noise that he was reporting.

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 So I contacted the homeowner to hear what his issues were.

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 His main issue was the noise and the rest of the presentation will talk about how we're

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 dealing with the noise issue.

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 A secondary issue he had was the light.

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 So he said, man, your engineers are good because there's a light that shines from there that

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 goes right through the trees right into my bedroom.

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 Is there anything you can do about that?

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 So I was like, sure, sure.

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 So I got with the substation manager and we thought about it.

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 Normally we leave the lights on in the substation for safety sake.

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 You want to deter people from entering the substation at night, especially on remote

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 sites that there's not a lot of people around.

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 Well, it just so happens that there's a power plant next door that has a lot of lights on

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 the building.

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 So I got with the substation manager and he said, hey, you know what?

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 We can turn all the lights in the substation off as our normal operating procedure.

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 And if the workers need to enter in the evening time or anything like that, we would turn

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 them on for safety.

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 But our normal operating procedure would be that the substation would be dark.

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 So it was a Friday.

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 We had all the lights turned off, called the homeowner.

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 I said, hey, we're going to try something, see if it's better.

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 So he called me that Monday and said, hey, man, that's great.

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 So I wish the sound issue was as simple as flipping a switch, but it wasn't.

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 So I promised him that we would take some steps.

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 We would try to identify the source of the noise, the type of noise, and see what we

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 could do about it.

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 So again, he was very appreciative of our efforts.

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 So starting in November, we'll go forward with the actions that we've taken.

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 So I brought the issue to the DME management, then we went, saw the city manager, and it

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 was decided that we would install some sound monitors.

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 So what is being heard?

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 What is the frequency?

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 What is the intensity of the sound?

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 So we decided on two monitors.

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 One would be located just outside the power plants, north wall.

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 So just north of the north engine hall is the gas skid.

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 So that's where the big regulator is that drops the pressure that goes into the plant.

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 It's pretty noisy itself.

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 So to be fair for this study, we picked the noisiest spot we could find at the plant.

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 We put the first monitor there.

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 And the second monitor is best to be located as close to the gentleman's house as possible.

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 So he was very gracious, and he gave us the authority to come on his property.

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 And we placed the second monitor just adjacent to his backyard.

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 So if you picture his house, his house setting, there's a pool to the south in his backyard,

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 and then that falls off on down to the plant.

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 So we put the sound monitor, and I have some pictures, kind of put this in spatial context.

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 Put the second monitor on his property, and they're logging 24 hours a day.

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 They're remote.

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 They upload their data via cell connection, and we could actually access this online.

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 So every morning I could log in and see what was going on.

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 So as we went through this, we elected to keep the monitors out there for about four

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 weeks.

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 So as you know, the weather is very difficult to predict in Texas.

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 And if we go back to where the issue arise was in November of 2018, if you remember back,

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 there was a very atypical cold spell in North Texas.

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 We had high temperatures in the low 40s and the freezing temperatures were dropping down

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 in the 20s.

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 So at that point, the deck was running, I wouldn't say, in its normal operating curve

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 there.

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 So it was running early in the morning as people get up and turn their heaters on and

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 running late in the evening.

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 So that's kind of the time period that initiated this.

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 So we wanted to capture the deck running at these different atmospheric temperatures.

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 So as you know, the colder it is, the better sound travels.

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 So if there's a really stiff north wind, then the plant's not audible.

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 If there's a really strong south wind, maybe it's a little more audible.

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 So we wanted to catch these different atmospheric conditions, and we also wanted to give the

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 plant a chance to run.

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 So as you know, you're familiar with how the deck operates, ERCOT market dictates when

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 it runs and when it doesn't.

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 So to be fair to the study, be fair to the homeowner, we wanted the plant running at

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 these different conditions.

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 So we selected about a four-week window.

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 About three-quarters of the way through the monitoring phase, the homeowner called me

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 and said, "Hey, Chris, would you come to my house for coffee at 6 p.m. so you can hear

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 this thing running?"

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 And he was very sincere about it.

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 He didn't want to just, you know, be maybe a citizen that's just complaining to complain.

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 He really has an issue, and he wanted us to come.

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 So I invited Jason Brown, and we invited the deck plant.

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 We got on the Outlook scheduler thing.

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 It's hard to get that plant at a meeting.

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 So but we were able to do that.

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 Jason was able to schedule with ERCOT a forced run for 6 p.m.

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 So that would give us the ability to meet the gentleman, fire up the plant, and so we

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 could have it running.

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 We could change the output, and we could see what he's experiencing.

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 So Jason and I leave the plant, and we're driving over to his house, and we're at his

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 gate, and Jason has a radio, and the control room comes on and says, "ERCOT just dispatched

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 the plant."

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 So as we're setting at the gate, we hear the plant start.

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 So that's kind of how the meeting started.

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 So we went on into his property.

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 He met us.

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 We walked around the back area of his house, which is a pool, and the plant is audible.

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 You can hear it.

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 So he invited us inside for coffee.

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 So on this house, the two southern rooms of his house which face the plant, one is a bedroom,

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 one is a sitting room.

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 So we're in the sitting room, having conversation.

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 You cannot hear the plant.

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 And I don't have very good hearing to begin with, but you can't hear it.

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 So once you get quiet and you kind of tune your ears to it, you can hear it.

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 So and then once you hear it, I mean, it kind of sticks with you.

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 So I can imagine him, you know, in his bedroom late at night, it's quiet.

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 He can hear the plant.

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 So we wrapped up our meeting, finished our coffee, and we left.

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 And then the next phase was to try to figure out where this sound is coming from.

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 So when we constructed the plant, we upgraded the walls of the plant.

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 They're metal walls.

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 They have sound-absorbing material in them.

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 And the roof has quite a bit of insulation in it, which is just kind of at a loss of

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 where this noise is coming from.

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 So initially, we thought it was the outside fans, intake fans.

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 That theory was wrong.

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 So we asked ENC, that's environmental noise control, could they provide modeling, predictive

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 modeling for the plant.

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 So the technicians had to come back and pick up the monitoring devices.

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 They sent out an acoustic tech with a handheld device.

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 We spent the morning gathering data both at the residence house and at the plant.

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 So we went around every noise-generating fan, outside the doors, pretty exhaustive survey.

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 And we had a DME and their transmission bucket truck there.

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 So we actually put the acoustic tech in the bucket, raised him up to 50 foot, took levels,

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 raised him up to 100 foot, took levels.

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 And then they actually rotated him over the roof, and they put him over by the ridge vent.

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 And he took some samples.

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 So hang on to that concept of ridge vent, because we're going to revisit it.

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 So he took the data back, and they generated a report.

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 We got it on about March the 19th.

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 And again, the residence has been very patient, as this took a couple of months.

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 And so we got the results of the report, and we shared them with the homeowner as promised.

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 So here's an area map to kind of summarize or kind of give some spatial context of what

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 was going on.

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 So this is Jim Crystal Road here, along the north part of the picture.

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 The red square here is the homeowner's residence.

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 He accesses off of Jim Crystal.

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 This spot right here was where we put the sound monitoring device on his property.

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 As you can see from this edge of his kind of backyard family area there to the edge

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 of the north engine hall is about 2,250 feet.

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 As you can see, there's nothing in between here.

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 And another thing I should say is when Jason and I were at his house standing on his deck,

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 his house is considerably higher than the power plant, which driving in there every

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 day for a year, I never would have thought that.

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 But when you're on his back pool, you're looking down at an angle at the deck.

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 So I think that's playing a part in some of the issue we're having.

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 And as you'll see here, here's the north engine hall, and the monitor was placed just outside

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 of that, inside the gate.

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 So a sound reference chart.

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 So the rest of this presentation will be talking about decibels.

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 Brent knows a whole lot about DBA and DBB.

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00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,960
 But this chart kind of gives you some indoor and outdoor levels to kind of reference.

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 So sound is a tricky thing to talk about because it's how people perceive it.

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 So DBA is actually a measure of intensity or pressure.

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 And so we'll start up here, our engines are off the chart.

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 So our engines are putting out about 125 dB at about 10 feet away from them.

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 So it's not cumulative.

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 So in our engine halls, it's not 750 dB.

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 It's about 130 dB.

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 So this first line you see here drawn at 70 dB.

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 That's the sound level of the plant at that monitoring station just north of the plant

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 at full plant output.

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 So as you see, our building is attenuating a large majority of the sound.

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 The second line you see here, that's the model sound level at the residence.

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 That's 57.6 dB.

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 So that's what the model says after gathering all this data, the plant's running at its

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 full output.

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 That's how loud it would be at the residence.

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 This bottom line here is set in at about 45 dB.

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 That's the average sound at his residence when the plant is not running.

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 So we had a month of data.

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 It's somewhere between quiet urban daytime and quiet urban nighttime.

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 There's a lot of noise out there.

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 And I'll have a graph here later to kind of show you where we think that's coming from.

232
00:14:29,380 --> 00:14:37,460
 But again, it is about a 10 dB increase is what the model predicts at his house.

233
00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:39,220
 So here's some quick data.

234
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,980
 So this is from the actual, from the ENC server.

235
00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:47,140
 So this is the data that the, those two data devices are logging.

236
00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:52,180
 On January 28th, the plant on your left is from the plant.

237
00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:57,440
 So this first box over here to the left, I call this the planes, trains, and automobile

238
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,560
 box.

239
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:04,240
 So one of the features of this, of this, of these devices are they're logging this, this

240
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,200
 sound levels continuously, but we were able to set a trigger.

241
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,200
 So we could set a trigger, say, I think for the, for the plant, we ended up putting it

242
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,920
 about 60 dB.

243
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:20,040
 If the sound goes over 60 dB, the device records the next 10 seconds.

244
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,760
 So you can see what's, what's the source of the sound.

245
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,800
 And then it takes about a 20, 20 second shutoff.

246
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,100
 And so it doesn't, there's not enough bandwidth to record all of this.

247
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:31,880
 So these certain events you can capture.

248
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:38,040
 So the planes, trains, and automobiles, we could hear jets flying over, landing the DFW,

249
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:44,880
 small plane traffic at flying into Denton regional, truck traffic on 380, trains on 35.

250
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,120
 So these anomalies you see over here, they're not associated with the plant because the

251
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,020
 plant was not running.

252
00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:55,040
 This box right here, you can clearly see the plant ramp up to 70 dB.

253
00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:02,120
 So this is the plant coming online very quickly and hanging out right at about 7, 70 dB.

254
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,160
 On the right is the same time period from the other monitor at the residence.

255
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:12,560
 Again, you can see these unidentified noise spikes, the planes, trains, automobiles, and

256
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,400
 then you can see when the plant kicks on this day was right at about 5 a.m.

257
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,020
 You can see his background level, the plant actually brings that up.

258
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:23,840
 So that's very indicative of what the model shows.

259
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,480
 The values you see here, I mean, it's hard to find a line in there, but the model and

260
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,200
 the data we gathered, they tended to correlate.

261
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,840
 So we got to go back to the ridge vents.

262
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,200
 So the noise source is the modeling is going on and walking around and you're in the engine

263
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,600
 halls and a lot of you have been out there, I mean, it's very quiet.

264
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,000
 Man, where's the noise coming from?

265
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000
 So you walk around and you look up and you can see the sun coming through the roof.

266
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,440
 So the ridge vents, and I have a picture here, they're closed when you're not operating,

267
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,840
 but when the intake fans come on, the ridge vents have to open.

268
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,680
 So the engines are kept very warm all the time.

269
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,140
 So the engine hall environment is typically pretty toasty.

270
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:14,000
 And so to make that a workable environment for Jason's guys and for additional cooling

271
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,840
 of the engines, when the engines start, these 12 fans come on and they bring in a massive

272
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,480
 amount of air and all the air from the outside comes in, has to go out the roof.

273
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,200
 So that's the purpose of the ridge vents.

274
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,120
 So they have to be there.

275
00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,760
 And as we note, as you look around, the ridge vents are the only portion of the engine hall

276
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:37,760
 shale that don't have sound absorbing properties.

277
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,880
 My next slide here is to kind of show you what the ridge vents are.

278
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,320
 They're 160 foot long, they're 10 foot wide, conveniently they sit on the ridge.

279
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,640
 I don't know where they got their name, but I'll take a guess here.

280
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,360
 And on this Instagram worthy picture here of our engines, if you look up, you can see

281
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,000
 the sun shining through on the girder.

282
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,680
 So the kind of the story where I left off with the guy in the bucket, yeah, when he

283
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,280
 got up there and he got down, he's like, "I know what your problem is."

284
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,600
 And so it is the ridge vents.

285
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,280
 So you take an electrical engineer, so now we know the source of the noise.

286
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,120
 So how do you fix it?

287
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:20,360
 So you take electrical engineer, I was like, "Oh, that's easy, we'll just build a berm."

288
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:29,720
 So my idea was to build a berm 1,200 foot long and about 15 foot high.

289
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,040
 So my thought is, is the deck's going to be there for a long time?

290
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,120
 Let's put this house into a like a sound shadow.

291
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,480
 It'll provide some visual screening between him.

292
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,640
 I thought it was a good idea.

293
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:50,080
 So we sent it off, we asked the acoustical engineer to model this to see if it was going

294
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,720
 to work before we proceeded with it.

295
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:57,680
 So as I said, he actually modeled it 16 foot high and it ran about 1,200 foot long.

296
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,680
 The estimated cost was $500,000.

297
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:06,840
 So that's the import of the soil and it's a substantial amount of soil and the shaping

298
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,500
 and compacting of the berm.

299
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:14,920
 And as you see, it was not a good idea, as the berm would provide 0.2 dBs of noise reduction.

300
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,960
 So here I am, I think I have good ideas every now and then.

301
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,320
 Obviously this wasn't one, but basically what it was is the house is high and the noise

302
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,880
 source is high and you put the berm in the valley, the sound's just going over the berm.

303
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,320
 So now we'll go with the experts, his options.

304
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,720
 So again, I should have said mitigation in this case is just sound reducing options.

305
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,280
 So the acoustic engineer at ENC came back with the idea of a silencer.

306
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,800
 So the silencers would set on top of the existing ridge vent.

307
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,840
 Here's actually a picture of one over here.

308
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,880
 So basically these modules would be stacked on the ridge vent.

309
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:56,880
 They allow the air to escape and kind of trap the noise, kind of like a muffler does on

310
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,440
 your car, very similar.

311
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,560
 So our exhaust has mufflers on it.

312
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,540
 This would be muffling the exhaust air coming out.

313
00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:07,800
 They're heavy, they do add some load to the building.

314
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:13,680
 So we did some reach out to the building manufacturer and the structural engineer's initial calculations

315
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,520
 are the building can withstand the additional weight.

316
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:22,600
 We didn't go into great depth with that engineering study, but he said it is possible.

317
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:29,960
 And the budgetary estimate for these devices on both engine halls is right at about $380,000.

318
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,880
 And the bottom line is you'll see that it provides approximately 8.7 dB of noise reduction

319
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,480
 at the residence.

320
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,800
 So I'll come back to that to kind of put that in context, just kind of throwing that number

321
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,800
 out there.

322
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,800
 But I'll put that in context.

323
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,480
 Do you need more detail on the silencers to show us what it entails?

324
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,480
 No sir.

325
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,260
 This is all I have for the - it would be a custom-made product that they'll have to manufacture.

326
00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:54,260
 So we kind of -

327
00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:55,680
 Are there any mechanics inside?

328
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,680
 No sir.

329
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:57,680
 They're totally passive.

330
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,680
 They're totally passive.

331
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:04,880
 So basically, in concept, you have some angled planes in there so sound can be reflected.

332
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:05,880
 So that's what they are.

333
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,040
 They're a set of angled planes.

334
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,800
 They don't add too much head pressure to your air escaping, but they try to reflect the

335
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,240
 sound back down into the building.

336
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,480
 So they're passive so there is no - there's nothing in it.

337
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,160
 It's a baffle.

338
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,160
 Sound baffle.

339
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,160
 Yes sir.

340
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,160
 Yes sir.

341
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,480
 This is exactly what it is.

342
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,240
 They're used a lot extensively.

343
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,120
 Turbines are very, very loud.

344
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,800
 Maybe those are inducted out the side of the building through a set of these silencers

345
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,800
 baffles.

346
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,080
 They just weren't included in our plan.

347
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,360
 Option three, if you read through the report, was just a combination of option one and two.

348
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:47,600
 It was very expensive at about $900,000 and it didn't provide any additional - again,

349
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,040
 my bad idea is showing up in there.

350
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,040
 So here's a color representation of the model.

351
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,320
 So I think this is important to kind of show you what's going on here.

352
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,280
 Simplified sound is kind of like throwing a pebble into a pond and then the ring spread

353
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,280
 out from there.

354
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,160
 As you can see that sound acts in a - sound waves act in a similar fashion.

355
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,720
 So you can see the red where he took his samples on the - up on the ridge vents and the red

356
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,760
 over on the - underneath the radiators.

357
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,080
 That sound there, that's not what we're hearing.

358
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,740
 A lot of that was the wind blowing.

359
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:21,740
 So they're downdraft.

360
00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:25,900
 They were moving so much air that I think that skewed those readings there.

361
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:32,620
 But definitely you can see the effect of the - of the noise coming out of the ridge vents

362
00:22:32,620 --> 00:22:37,220
 and up here at receptor one, that is the monitor at the resident's house.

363
00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:38,220
 So this is the predictive value.

364
00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:41,560
 I guess I got off a little bit, 56.1.

365
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,280
 And then you can see how the sound radiates out.

366
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,480
 So unmitigated would be if Jason started the plant tomorrow, this is kind of what the model

367
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,900
 said it would sound like.

368
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:51,900
 This is mitigated.

369
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,100
 So this is what the silencers install.

370
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:56,520
 So you can see the drastic reduction.

371
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,100
 This noise level out here in the blue is 40 to 45.

372
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,720
 That would be there if the deck wasn't there at all.

373
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,960
 That's just the ambient background noise at this part of town.

374
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,120
 The gray would be - at the house would be at about 47.4 dB.

375
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,780
 So his background levels are about 45.

376
00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:21,700
 The model says you install the baffle or baffles silencers and you bring that down about 8.7.

377
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,860
 It gets it very close to background noise.

378
00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:28,540
 So a thing I'll say here and the same thing I've told the homeowner, we can't make this

379
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:29,620
 a stealthy plant.

380
00:23:29,620 --> 00:23:31,300
 It's never going to be zero.

381
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:33,900
 We can't reduce the noise totally.

382
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:38,860
 That's just not financially feasible and probably not even an engineering feat we could do.

383
00:23:38,860 --> 00:23:43,740
 So the benefit of this that I see is going from this.

384
00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:50,180
 If you think of this as the sound footprint of the deck with the silencers on is bringing

385
00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:56,660
 this - these yellow values out here that are at the residence solely within the perimeter

386
00:23:56,660 --> 00:24:01,740
 of the security walls of Jim Crystal and the Denton Energy Center.

387
00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:10,460
 So again, this is today and this is the predictive values with the silencers installed.

388
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:13,500
 So in summary, berm option one, not a very good idea.

389
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,900
 That's about $500,000.

390
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:25,080
 Option two is the silencers installed on the roof at about 378,000 and about 8.7 dB.

391
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,300
 So I said I would get back to it.

392
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,160
 So basically this is the same chart that I've shown before.

393
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,300
 So here's the modeled sound, unmitigated sound at the residence.

394
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:40,180
 So you're looking to installing the silencers on the ridge vents would bring this red line

395
00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:45,660
 down almost to where it is when the plant's not running.

396
00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:49,760
 So that's about the equivalent of your 8.7 dB.

397
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,340
 So staff recommendation is kind of two-fold is to prepare an RFP for design, supply and

398
00:24:55,340 --> 00:24:58,900
 installation of the ridge vent silencers.

399
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:01,500
 It is an expensive apparatus.

400
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,660
 As you know, the deck came in under budget.

401
00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:09,460
 Some of those funds we've transferred among other projects but we've kept back money because

402
00:25:09,460 --> 00:25:10,980
 we knew this issue was coming.

403
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:16,300
 So there's funds available in the original funds to fund this.

404
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:17,700
 So it's two-folded.

405
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:24,340
 At this point, I feel that the silencers would alleviate the sound issue that the existing

406
00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:26,100
 resident has.

407
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:30,860
 And then going forward, you know, we haven't even got to the first birthday yet of the

408
00:25:30,860 --> 00:25:31,860
 deck.

409
00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:33,740
 So it has many more years to come.

410
00:25:33,740 --> 00:25:39,060
 The airport is the boundary, you know, there's not going to be any development to the east.

411
00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:40,260
 The residence to the west.

412
00:25:40,260 --> 00:25:47,620
 There's a lot of undeveloped area to the west and to the south of the Denton Energy Center.

413
00:25:47,620 --> 00:25:49,820
 So basically, two-fold.

414
00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:54,880
 So it could solve the problem we have today and alleviate the sound issue at the residence

415
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:55,880
 house.

416
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,820
 And also going forward, it drastically shrinks that sound footprint of the deck so that it

417
00:26:00,820 --> 00:26:09,500
 doesn't impact any future development, be it residential or commercial in this area.

418
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:14,860
 And alternate options are, as I researched in there, there's the military, if you have

419
00:26:14,860 --> 00:26:18,300
 your Bose noise-canceling headphones.

420
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:20,740
 They're basically doing that to buildings these days.

421
00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:24,380
 There's lots of technology out there that, you know, could be as advanced as that or

422
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:28,780
 it could be, you know, sound-absorbing materials or just maybe issues out there that we don't

423
00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:29,780
 know.

424
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:33,900
 So it's not about an RFI to say, "Hey, does anybody have a solution to this issue?"

425
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:38,140
 A concern with this option is the timetable of getting that done.

426
00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:40,660
 So that could be a lengthy process.

427
00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:46,380
 And then finally, there's always the option that we take no further action on the sound

428
00:26:46,380 --> 00:26:47,900
 mitigation at the deck.

429
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:51,180
 I had to throw it out there.

430
00:26:51,180 --> 00:26:52,700
 So anyway, I thank you for your time.

431
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:57,340
 I know that's kind of a long-winded presentation, but now open for any questions.

432
00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:58,340
 Questions?

433
00:26:58,340 --> 00:27:00,260
 I have a few.

434
00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:01,500
 Yes, sir.

435
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:06,220
 So in your presentation, you mentioned that some staff went out to speak to them prior

436
00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:09,740
 to the deck even being constructed.

437
00:27:09,740 --> 00:27:12,500
 Is that what you were saying?

438
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:13,500
 Yes, sir.

439
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,500
 Yes, sir.

440
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:22,020
 And that the original concept was for six engines, and then we ended up putting 12 there.

441
00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:29,420
 We actually had either part of the job of consultants that we had already hired or consultants

442
00:27:29,420 --> 00:27:31,140
 that were hired for this separately.

443
00:27:31,140 --> 00:27:36,700
 Somebody did some extrapolated data about noise way back then.

444
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:39,820
 So was it just a casual thing of we're guessing?

445
00:27:39,820 --> 00:27:48,060
 It was we paid somebody to tell us how loud the sound was going to be at different points.

446
00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:52,900
 I'm not familiar with that study or that report.

447
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:57,140
 I reached out to Burns and McDonald, which was a design engineer for this project.

448
00:27:57,140 --> 00:28:02,340
 So they've done, as we've talked about before, the Red Gate plant down in McAllen is out

449
00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:03,340
 in the country.

450
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:06,540
 There is no sound absorbing walls in that point.

451
00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:14,300
 So their engineering opinion, and again, I'm not aware of a study that was done, was that

452
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:18,020
 the decibel level would be below 65 dB at the property line.

453
00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:25,540
 That's why we did all of the sound absorbing in the building.

454
00:28:25,540 --> 00:28:26,660
 I tried to find it.

455
00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:28,140
 I wasn't able to find it.

456
00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:29,140
 Yes, sir.

457
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:30,140
 I'm not able to.

458
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:36,780
 I don't have a well organized enough library to contain all the documents that I've gotten

459
00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:37,780
 from you guys.

460
00:28:37,780 --> 00:28:39,980
 So we did do a study.

461
00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:44,580
 And another thing that kept being brought up, and again, I know this was different leadership,

462
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:52,340
 but we still have to work with it, was that everybody was 500 feet away, right?

463
00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:58,140
 That people were so far back that it might not even matter.

464
00:28:58,140 --> 00:29:00,460
 And can you speak to that?

465
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:02,460
 What are the legislative requirements?

466
00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:06,900
 What are the statutes that we have to follow rather than, I mean, I think it's fine that

467
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,740
 we've gotten this mention of the noise and that we're responding to it.

468
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:12,400
 And I believe that's perfect.

469
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,580
 But before we take any action, it seems like we should understand what we're required to

470
00:29:16,580 --> 00:29:23,020
 do by law so that as you say, when all these infill people start coming in, if we've demonstrated

471
00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:26,540
 that we're going to respond to somebody saying they're not comfortable hanging out on their

472
00:29:26,540 --> 00:29:30,340
 back deck anymore, then we're going to get a bunch of calls about people not being comfortable

473
00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:31,820
 hanging out on their back deck.

474
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:34,180
 And so what are our requirements?

475
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:37,700
 What decibel requirements do we have or are there any?

476
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:43,220
 I looked through that, so interesting to see that I could not find in the development code

477
00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:46,140
 like an industrial limit or a specific limit.

478
00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:51,660
 What I could find is people have to come in front of the City Council to get, what would

479
00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:55,820
 it be, like for a concert, a jazz festival has to apply for a variance to have noise

480
00:29:55,820 --> 00:29:59,140
 levels greater than 65 dB.

481
00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:04,500
 Industry standard from what I see is in that 60 to 65 dB would be considered acceptable.

482
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:05,500
 Okay.

483
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,500
 Okay.

484
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:08,940
 Just a couple more things on the slide.

485
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:14,140
 And if you can find the study, I can look some more, as you kind of know the history,

486
00:30:14,140 --> 00:30:18,540
 there is a gap in the record, so when I took over the project, we didn't have full access

487
00:30:18,540 --> 00:30:23,360
 to, of course, the personnel that probably did that, so there is kind of a knowledge

488
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:24,360
 gap there.

489
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:31,580
 In fact, it was kind of done in a, hey, they're all over 500 feet anyway, so it doesn't really

490
00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:37,540
 matter kind of vein, so I didn't, you know, but we paid for it, so.

491
00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:43,060
 In one of these slides here, there's this, there's these things in parenthesis, sound

492
00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:46,260
 absorbing walls were originally installed.

493
00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:47,260
 Yes.

494
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:48,260
 What does that mean?

495
00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:50,780
 That's the, I'll let you answer, Chris.

496
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:57,140
 Yeah, if you, if you were to turn the deck, so our construction is, we have a steel building.

497
00:30:57,140 --> 00:31:01,780
 That's two, two back.

498
00:31:01,780 --> 00:31:02,780
 Right there.

499
00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:03,780
 Sounds a little more.

500
00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:07,380
 See, because it makes it sound like there was something that was absorbing sound near

501
00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:10,180
 or on the ridge vents that are not there anymore.

502
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:11,180
 Is that what that says?

503
00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:13,140
 No, sir, that's, that's probably not worded well.

504
00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:16,780
 So what we have in there, so our construction, there was, there was an upgrade.

505
00:31:16,780 --> 00:31:22,420
 So say you're, if you were to visit Red Gate, down in McAllen, they're, they're 25 miles

506
00:31:22,420 --> 00:31:23,780
 out in the country.

507
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:29,720
 So their construction method is just a steel building that's insulated, and that's it.

508
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,020
 So we knew that, that noise was going to be an issue, or, or the, the planners of this

509
00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:36,060
 knew noise was going to be an issue.

510
00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:38,460
 So we have a building upgrade from SWOBE.

511
00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:42,500
 So if you walk out and look at the deck, it has sound absorbing material.

512
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:49,940
 So it has steel, insulation, wool, to absorb the sound, and then the wall is perforated.

513
00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:53,140
 So there's perforated panels all along the wall.

514
00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:54,500
 So that's what absorbs the material.

515
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:56,500
 So that was a, an upgrade that DME purchased.

516
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,500
 I get it, I get it.

517
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:58,500
 The wording.

518
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:59,500
 Yes, sir, I, I apologize.

519
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:00,500
 I get it.

520
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:01,500
 I get it.

521
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:02,500
 Yes, sir.

522
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:03,500
 Okay, so one more question.

523
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:04,500
 Yes, sir.

524
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,420
 The, the engines, as you guys have pointed out several times, they're highly technical

525
00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:07,420
 devices.

526
00:32:07,420 --> 00:32:08,620
 They're not just lawnmower engines.

527
00:32:08,620 --> 00:32:13,020
 So somebody knows how loud they're supposed to be, what kind of vibrations they're supposed

528
00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:14,020
 to give off.

529
00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:16,220
 Are they performing like they're supposed to perform?

530
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:17,220
 Yes, sir.

531
00:32:17,220 --> 00:32:22,340
 So, well, I could let Jason speak to that, but we had a sound guarantee in the contract.

532
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:28,940
 So the, the sound guarantee is 125 dB at 3 meters from the engine.

533
00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:35,220
 So we, so when they, the, the testing facility was in Italy when the engines were test run,

534
00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:41,020
 they provided us documentation and our engines were coming in like at 118, 119 dB.

535
00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:44,500
 So that they met the, the noise requirement per the contract.

536
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:46,740
 As far as vibrations, you're exactly right.

537
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:51,340
 If you could go out there and, and Jason wouldn't want to show you, those engines aren't bolted

538
00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:52,340
 down.

539
00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:55,340
 They, they rest on, on 70 spring packs.

540
00:32:55,340 --> 00:32:59,260
 So that, that, that was one concern there was what it was vibration, because there are

541
00:32:59,260 --> 00:33:04,340
 issues where they've had some plant vibrations traveling in the earth and there's nothing

542
00:33:04,340 --> 00:33:05,340
 you can do about it.

543
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:07,980
 So the engines are resting on spring packs.

544
00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:15,340
 So I would say similar to your, to your other plant, we don't think it's a vibration issue

545
00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:16,340
 at all.

546
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:17,340
 Okay.

547
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:18,340
 All right.

548
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:19,340
 Thank you.

549
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:20,340
 Yes, sir.

550
00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:21,340
 Any other questions?

551
00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:22,340
 Mr. cheek.

552
00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:31,740
 So I haven't been back in the beauty very long, much longer, closer to the mic, please.

553
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:32,740
 Yeah.

554
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:33,740
 Okay.

555
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:34,740
 Haven't been back here very much longer.

556
00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:40,540
 So has this the, this issue come through pub before any other, the sound issue?

557
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:41,540
 Yes.

558
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:42,540
 About this gentleman.

559
00:33:42,540 --> 00:33:43,540
 No, sir.

560
00:33:43,540 --> 00:33:44,540
 It has not.

561
00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:45,540
 It has not.

562
00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:46,540
 So we, we met with the city manager.

563
00:33:46,540 --> 00:33:47,540
 Again, he was patient.

564
00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:50,740
 So we, we wanted to get some answers before we brought it forward.

565
00:33:50,740 --> 00:33:54,540
 So the time for the study and that sort of thing, and then getting, getting it on the

566
00:33:54,540 --> 00:33:55,540
 agenda.

567
00:33:55,540 --> 00:33:58,260
 So this is the first, the first that you've heard about it.

568
00:33:58,260 --> 00:33:59,260
 Okay.

569
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:00,260
 All right.

570
00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:03,420
 That makes the next questions pertinent.

571
00:34:03,420 --> 00:34:09,740
 So you started up the plant to test the noise at 6pm.

572
00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:12,600
 And I don't know at what capacity you run the DEC.

573
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,940
 So I don't know if that's a normal operation for you.

574
00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:19,620
 I would assume that six o'clock in the evenings, probably not a typical time to start the plan

575
00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:23,300
 up.

576
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:24,300
 It was that day.

577
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:33,900
 I mean, so Jason, would you join him at the podium, please?

578
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:39,180
 Thank you.

579
00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:40,180
 Good afternoon.

580
00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:46,300
 Yeah, we do start pretty regular around six o'clock, five o'clock in that time frame.

581
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:47,300
 Yeah.

582
00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:48,300
 For the peak.

583
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:49,300
 Typically hours of people getting home.

584
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:52,300
 It shifts a little bit.

585
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:56,380
 Typically it's during the morning, morning periods, a little bit before seven o'clock

586
00:34:56,380 --> 00:35:00,340
 and then we'll run for a couple hours and then we'll hit another one in the afternoon,

587
00:35:00,340 --> 00:35:01,340
 late afternoon.

588
00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:04,660
 Just to follow the water demand, basically.

589
00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:08,460
 Just a point of clarification, you were dispatched by ERCOT.

590
00:35:08,460 --> 00:35:09,460
 Yeah.

591
00:35:09,460 --> 00:35:10,460
 We didn't just turn it on.

592
00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:11,460
 Okay.

593
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:12,460
 I misunderstood that then.

594
00:35:12,460 --> 00:35:13,460
 Yeah.

595
00:35:13,460 --> 00:35:14,460
 We were dispatched.

596
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:18,100
 What I understood was you requested to start up at six o'clock and then ERCOT dispatched

597
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:19,980
 you in accordance with your request.

598
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:20,980
 That is correct.

599
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:21,980
 Okay.

600
00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:22,980
 Yes, sir.

601
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:23,980
 Okay.

602
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:24,980
 So it wasn't, they needed us dispatched.

603
00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:25,980
 No, no.

604
00:35:25,980 --> 00:35:26,980
 They started and we took over.

605
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:27,980
 Yes.

606
00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:33,260
 I'll file for a must run is what it's technically called with ERCOT if you're not dispatched

607
00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:37,260
 and you need to start, you need to test, you need to do that kind of stuff.

608
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:38,660
 You file for a must run.

609
00:35:38,660 --> 00:35:41,860
 It was approved, but then we got dispatched.

610
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:42,860
 Okay.

611
00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:43,860
 Fair enough.

612
00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:44,860
 Right there at the same time period.

613
00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:45,860
 Thank you.

614
00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:48,940
 Did anybody keep track of the cost of this entire study?

615
00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:50,780
 That's you.

616
00:35:50,780 --> 00:35:54,500
 Yeah, you're out, Jason.

617
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:57,260
 If you allow me to give you a ballpark answer, I can give that to you.

618
00:35:57,260 --> 00:35:58,260
 It's about $21,000.

619
00:35:58,260 --> 00:35:59,260
 Okay.

620
00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:00,260
 All right.

621
00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:01,260
 Give or take $1,000.

622
00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:07,060
 That's not a lot of money in the budget of DME, but it is a lot of money.

623
00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:08,060
 Yes, sir.

624
00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:13,500
 We justified it because of the ramifications that you brought up.

625
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:18,900
 There's other secret slides here.

626
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:23,700
 I know these colors are hard to see, but this is something we brought forward to Todd.

627
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:31,460
 I have the values written down, but if you can kind of see the bullseye there is those

628
00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:35,940
 are radiuses away from the plant.

629
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:37,460
 This is at the center of the plant.

630
00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:41,960
 There's one residence that's within 2,465 feet.

631
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,100
 That's the residence we've been talking about today.

632
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:51,820
 There's two residences within, so these are distances between, so two residences between

633
00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:57,300
 2,465 and basically 2,700.

634
00:36:57,300 --> 00:37:05,980
 Between 2,700 and 3,200, there's only one and about 3,680, so between that gap there's

635
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:06,980
 three residences.

636
00:37:06,980 --> 00:37:09,820
 There's a total of six houses.

637
00:37:09,820 --> 00:37:17,460
 That gets back to Brendan's question of how many people could come forward and if we're

638
00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:22,580
 addressing it at the home that's closest to us, that should be mitigating any of those

639
00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:23,580
 issues.

640
00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:24,580
 Correct.

641
00:37:24,580 --> 00:37:31,340
 If you follow that, then the levels, they shouldn't be able to hear it.

642
00:37:31,340 --> 00:37:32,860
 They were there before us.

643
00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:33,860
 Yes.

644
00:37:33,860 --> 00:37:37,180
 All of these are existing homes.

645
00:37:37,180 --> 00:37:42,660
 Some plant construction experience I have are Thomas Egan, very vocal neighbors, so

646
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:47,980
 I had the opportunity to converse with them by email about once a week.

647
00:37:47,980 --> 00:37:53,900
 So it is my opinion, if they heard it, then they would have said something.

648
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:59,580
 So kind of on that, we met with some, we had our plant open house where we invited all

649
00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:03,900
 the residents of Denton and especially out in this area to come visit us.

650
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:09,900
 There were some of Jason Lee's neighbors on this side, so they actually came over and

651
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:12,180
 I asked them, they said they haven't heard anything.

652
00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:14,020
 They rode their skateboards over towards you?

653
00:38:14,020 --> 00:38:15,020
 No, no.

654
00:38:15,020 --> 00:38:19,540
 I didn't say they liked him, but they were just his neighbors.

655
00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:22,220
 We haven't had any additional feedback.

656
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:25,580
 Some of these houses are over here to the east.

657
00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:31,160
 When the plant's running, there's a lot of vegetation here.

658
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,980
 I can't hear it at all.

659
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:34,980
 But that is a concern.

660
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:40,500
 And so as you see the staff recommendation, I was trying to be clear that it is to address

661
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:45,680
 this issue we have with this resident, but it's also to bring that sound footprint into

662
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:51,300
 an area that the deck and Jim Crystal, that's about 18 acres, is trying to keep that level.

663
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:57,520
 If you look back at that model, you're talking about nothing leaving the deck modeled at

664
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,740
 about 60 dB.

665
00:39:00,740 --> 00:39:06,300
 As far as setbacks go, Mr. Carroll, I'm not aware of any that you have to be away from

666
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:08,140
 the facility.

667
00:39:08,140 --> 00:39:15,300
 We're nowhere near the lot lines and with the closest resident being almost half a mile

668
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:18,540
 away, maybe that was the justification.

669
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:23,980
 And isn't 500 feet, is that the feet requirement for a public hearing?

670
00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:26,900
 That was just stuff they were throwing around at the time, you know, because the plant was

671
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:31,900
 at the center of the piece of property and I always say, well, how about we notify neighbors

672
00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:37,780
 who are close to the property line rather than, oh, it's all inside here on this bit.

673
00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:39,140
 But you know, that's my opinion.

674
00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,260
 This just sounds like a conversation on their front porch.

675
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:45,140
 It doesn't really sound like there's nothing in writing with this resident at all.

676
00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:46,140
 No, sir.

677
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:51,820
 It's just a conversation they had and I kind of, I got the residents his version of it

678
00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:52,820
 and that's.

679
00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:57,140
 Oh, no, it sounds like, I'm not accusing them of anything at all.

680
00:39:57,140 --> 00:40:03,980
 Can somebody just eyeball what property in the bull's eye part and the middle circle

681
00:40:03,980 --> 00:40:07,940
 is property that could become residences?

682
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:15,260
 Because if this property is the closest property that we'll ever see, mitigating it down to

683
00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:21,660
 10 decibels, right, down to and be at the residence, 47, 47, 47.

684
00:40:21,660 --> 00:40:27,940
 So if he's the closest one that's ever going to be there, then we know we're hitting a

685
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:29,460
 mark that's reasonable.

686
00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:34,820
 But if somebody is going to be able to be at a thousand feet and make this same complaint

687
00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:38,740
 and we're going to have to respond to it, then what are we going to do then?

688
00:40:38,740 --> 00:40:41,620
 I guess I, do you say, yes, sir, I do.

689
00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:44,580
 And that was my, and using this slide, that was my justification.

690
00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:48,780
 Because these areas out here, it's never going to be silent.

691
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:49,780
 It's never going to be.

692
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:50,780
 Of course not.

693
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:51,780
 Of course not.

694
00:40:51,780 --> 00:40:52,780
 So you're looking at here.

695
00:40:52,780 --> 00:40:54,500
 So this is a flood plain over here.

696
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:58,820
 These are your TMPA and encore transmission easements are extending out in this area.

697
00:40:58,820 --> 00:41:05,260
 I do know that the, so if you can see my mouse here, this is the property line for the city.

698
00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:08,340
 This track down here is not owned by the city.

699
00:41:08,340 --> 00:41:09,580
 So it could be developed.

700
00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:15,940
 So we're looking at it in that thousand feet or something, 50 degree, yes sir, 50 decibels

701
00:41:15,940 --> 00:41:19,820
 at the boundary of the plant as it is now.

702
00:41:19,820 --> 00:41:21,460
 This is the airport over here.

703
00:41:21,460 --> 00:41:26,420
 The city, I can probably get you back, sorry, jumping around here.

704
00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:29,940
 The city owns this track, if you kind of follow my mouth.

705
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:36,780
 Basically the hay field out here that Jason gets to mow is the acreage that the city owns.

706
00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:37,780
 And the airport is?

707
00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:38,780
 Yes ma'am.

708
00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:39,780
 Yes ma'am.

709
00:41:39,780 --> 00:41:40,780
 The airport is right here.

710
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:42,140
 There she is and there's going to be another runway.

711
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:44,860
 Yeah, there are additional runways over here.

712
00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:49,700
 Some of the city's land, this section here was actually given over to the airport.

713
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:52,140
 So the development to that side is locked.

714
00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:57,260
 This creek area, so we have encore station here, an old DME station here that eventually

715
00:41:57,260 --> 00:42:00,900
 will be decommissioned and removed.

716
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:02,380
 This is a flood zone here.

717
00:42:02,380 --> 00:42:06,580
 So there will not be development in this area here.

718
00:42:06,580 --> 00:42:10,860
 The gentleman who's, this is a gas lot here.

719
00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:17,660
 So his property, he's at like 42 acres is his chunk and it's kind of an L-shaped.

720
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:24,420
 So this area here, I would say, has the potential to be developed and you would be at a noise

721
00:42:24,420 --> 00:42:25,420
 level.

722
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:26,420
 So that would be the area of greatest concern.

723
00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:27,420
 Yes sir.

724
00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:30,700
 It looked like half of it might end up being higher than the level that we're mitigating

725
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:33,460
 it with or that we're trying to do with the baffles.

726
00:42:33,460 --> 00:42:34,460
 Correct, correct.

727
00:42:34,460 --> 00:42:35,460
 Yes sir.

728
00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:36,460
 Yes sir.

729
00:42:36,460 --> 00:42:41,740
 If you're living there and we came in, that's different than we're there and you move in,

730
00:42:41,740 --> 00:42:42,740
 right?

731
00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:43,740
 Sure.

732
00:42:43,740 --> 00:42:44,740
 Of course.

733
00:42:44,740 --> 00:42:48,580
 But that doesn't often stop people from telling people how they feel about something.

734
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:49,580
 True.

735
00:42:49,580 --> 00:42:50,580
 True.

736
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:51,580
 Yes.

737
00:42:51,580 --> 00:42:53,500
 Do we have any idea what the noise levels are from the airport?

738
00:42:53,500 --> 00:43:00,580
 Because that other, that potentially developable area is closer to the airport.

739
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:03,540
 Those spikes look a little bit bigger.

740
00:43:03,540 --> 00:43:10,780
 This is the airport and I brought that up with the resident and his, not justification

741
00:43:10,780 --> 00:43:13,780
 but his explanation is that noise is passing.

742
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:19,060
 So an airplane flies over you and it's gone and it doesn't have the annoyance factor that

743
00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:20,900
 a steady, constant noise source has.

744
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:25,340
 Yeah, he's been driven nuts by some rhythmic low thing that he can't.

745
00:43:25,340 --> 00:43:26,340
 Right.

746
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:27,340
 Where is that coming from?

747
00:43:27,340 --> 00:43:28,340
 Yes.

748
00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:33,780
 Yeah, I think it's a valid point with the, whoever develops this property, they're going

749
00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:35,500
 to know that that plan is there.

750
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:38,860
 So the city would have some input into that.

751
00:43:38,860 --> 00:43:40,940
 We'd provide these maps.

752
00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:44,900
 One issue we've talked about is that this is all theoretical.

753
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:47,340
 So this is model data here.

754
00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:52,300
 After we install the silencers, they may work better, they may work not as well.

755
00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:56,240
 So we would do this again and this would be, you're right, it's the money.

756
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,900
 So this part right here was $12,000.

757
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:04,620
 So would it be worth it for us to do this after we're done and then have information

758
00:44:04,620 --> 00:44:11,500
 to provide residents that anybody that comes out there saying, hey, here's what you should

759
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:12,500
 expect if you develop this.

760
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:13,500
 Sure.

761
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:14,500
 I think we'd want to know.

762
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,580
 We always need to be upfront with where we spend our money.

763
00:44:16,580 --> 00:44:17,580
 Yes.

764
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:18,580
 Transparency is a big deal right now.

765
00:44:18,580 --> 00:44:19,580
 Exactly.

766
00:44:19,580 --> 00:44:20,580
 Okay.

767
00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:21,580
 It is.

768
00:44:21,580 --> 00:44:24,460
 And you're fairly confident there's not any legislative requirements.

769
00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:25,460
 There's no statutes.

770
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:26,460
 I couldn't find any.

771
00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:29,860
 State of Texas doesn't say, hey, that just seems odd to me.

772
00:44:29,860 --> 00:44:32,220
 They regulated every other aspect of it.

773
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:35,100
 TCEQ may even have some things out there.

774
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:36,100
 I couldn't.

775
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:41,020
 Well, no offense to you, but it may be something that may be a lawyer or, you know, like, because

776
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:44,660
 if we're going to do a contract with somebody, you would have it reviewed by somebody who

777
00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:46,780
 could actually say, oh, those are found here.

778
00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:47,780
 I think we'd have to ask Larry.

779
00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:48,780
 Yeah.

780
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:49,780
 I mean, I don't know.

781
00:44:49,780 --> 00:44:50,780
 Deputy.

782
00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:51,780
 Yeah.

783
00:44:51,780 --> 00:44:52,780
 We've got a permit that's issued.

784
00:44:52,780 --> 00:44:53,780
 Right.

785
00:44:53,780 --> 00:44:56,780
 We had, there was a permit.

786
00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:57,780
 Yeah.

787
00:44:57,780 --> 00:45:01,820
 Ordinance doesn't cover that particular issue.

788
00:45:01,820 --> 00:45:02,820
 Okay.

789
00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:07,700
 So our operating permit is what we're governed by as far as the state goes.

790
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:16,500
 And even if our noise ordinances were in conflict with the, the state license is, I would want

791
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:24,500
 to look at that closely, because this issue was never really discussed on the plan, from

792
00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:25,500
 what I recall, when that was going down.

793
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:30,500
 I mean, the issue, I don't think it really ever came up on the table.

794
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:31,500
 Okay.

795
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:32,500
 So we would need.

796
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:33,500
 I'm sorry, Larry.

797
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:34,500
 Go ahead.

798
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:35,500
 No, we'd need to look at that.

799
00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:39,940
 I know we've got a permit that addresses a lot of the issues that we'd pull in to look

800
00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:43,860
 at if the noise level was part of it.

801
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:44,860
 Okay.

802
00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:46,900
 And our air permit is not.

803
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:47,900
 Yeah.

804
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:50,620
 And so I'd be, you know, we're, we're left with our noise ordinance.

805
00:45:50,620 --> 00:45:54,780
 We're not, you know, you're within the city limits, you're not in the county.

806
00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:55,780
 So okay.

807
00:45:55,780 --> 00:45:56,780
 Okay.

808
00:45:56,780 --> 00:45:57,780
 The noise ordinance is going to look at that.

809
00:45:57,780 --> 00:46:02,460
 So we might have to take steps as just trying to be the best neighbor we can be rather than

810
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:03,460
 using.

811
00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:04,460
 Right?

812
00:46:04,460 --> 00:46:05,460
 Correct.

813
00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:06,460
 That's kind of what we're doing here.

814
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:07,460
 We're not following rules necessarily.

815
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:08,460
 We're trying our best.

816
00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:09,460
 We're being a good neighbor.

817
00:46:09,460 --> 00:46:10,460
 Right.

818
00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:13,460
 Well, they've got the right of what's called quiet enjoyment of their property.

819
00:46:13,460 --> 00:46:17,340
 It gets back to what you were talking about earlier, just this incessant droning.

820
00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:18,340
 Okay.

821
00:46:18,340 --> 00:46:19,340
 Okay.

822
00:46:19,340 --> 00:46:22,340
 But that's all in the ear of the beholder.

823
00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:23,340
 Okay.

824
00:46:23,340 --> 00:46:24,340
 All right.

825
00:46:24,340 --> 00:46:25,340
 Thank you.

826
00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:26,340
 So you need direction.

827
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:27,340
 I have one more.

828
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:28,340
 Oh, I'm sorry.

829
00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:34,740
 I think it may be a side issue, but you know, airports try and implement a lot of zoning

830
00:46:34,740 --> 00:46:42,580
 around our runways to prevent building of things which may interfere with the flight

831
00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:46,180
 path or may be in a hazard zone off the end of the runways.

832
00:46:46,180 --> 00:46:50,820
 And I don't know if that's something that we may want to look at for that little piece

833
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:52,820
 of property down there.

834
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:57,580
 Oh, to the south of the energy center?

835
00:46:57,580 --> 00:46:58,580
 Yes, sir.

836
00:46:58,580 --> 00:46:59,580
 Yes, sir.

837
00:46:59,580 --> 00:47:03,900
 Because even though this noise may be more consistent that we're producing, the airport

838
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:06,180
 noise apparently is much louder.

839
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:07,180
 Yeah.

840
00:47:07,180 --> 00:47:12,940
 And so we had some sidebars about noise and sleep and how I like a constant noise.

841
00:47:12,940 --> 00:47:13,940
 Yeah.

842
00:47:13,940 --> 00:47:14,940
 Yeah.

843
00:47:14,940 --> 00:47:18,380
 The spiking would bother me more than the constant noise.

844
00:47:18,380 --> 00:47:21,380
 I sleep well on the ship.

845
00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:22,380
 Yeah, me too.

846
00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:23,380
 Me too.

847
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:26,700
 One other thing to bring up here is as you may know, if you've seen the mobility plan

848
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:34,700
 for the city of Denton, Loop 288 is going to be right at 400 feet off of the wall.

849
00:47:34,700 --> 00:47:38,620
 So it kind of cuts through these two gas wells.

850
00:47:38,620 --> 00:47:42,100
 So additional runway, a larger runway if I understand it.

851
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,220
 There's going to be some larger planes coming in there.

852
00:47:45,220 --> 00:47:49,020
 This area, I mean, he has a very nice piece of property.

853
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:50,060
 It's very nice.

854
00:47:50,060 --> 00:47:51,860
 But the industrial part is growing out.

855
00:47:51,860 --> 00:47:52,860
 Yeah.

856
00:47:52,860 --> 00:47:53,860
 Tyson Foods right down the road.

857
00:47:53,860 --> 00:47:54,860
 It's coming in that direction.

858
00:47:54,860 --> 00:47:56,860
 I see a lot of oil field.

859
00:47:56,860 --> 00:47:57,860
 Gas wells.

860
00:47:57,860 --> 00:47:58,860
 Gas wells.

861
00:47:58,860 --> 00:47:59,860
 Yes, sir.

862
00:47:59,860 --> 00:48:00,860
 Pretty apparent as well.

863
00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:01,860
 Yes, sir.

864
00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:02,860
 And they're very loud too.

865
00:48:02,860 --> 00:48:08,140
 We had to watch that, try to define the frequency they're at so the gas wells, we caught their

866
00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:09,300
 sound quite a bit as well.

867
00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:10,300
 Right.

868
00:48:10,300 --> 00:48:11,300
 And he didn't hold us to that.

869
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:12,300
 He understood that.

870
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:13,300
 Sure.

871
00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:14,300
 One more question.

872
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:15,300
 Yes, sir.

873
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:21,580
 Would Atmos have done this study if they were operating that plant?

874
00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:22,580
 That's a good question.

875
00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:23,580
 I think that they would.

876
00:48:23,580 --> 00:48:27,500
 I think they would find their lawyers and find out whatever that DB limit was going to

877
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:32,300
 be acceptable at the property line and that they would stick with that.

878
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:33,300
 Yeah.

879
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:34,300
 I don't think they would.

880
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:39,700
 It's kind of a facetious question, but I mean, that's the beauty of public power too.

881
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:41,580
 That's exactly what I was going to say.

882
00:48:41,580 --> 00:48:44,780
 The beauty of public power is we care about our neighbors.

883
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:45,780
 Absolutely.

884
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:46,780
 Because they own us.

885
00:48:46,780 --> 00:48:47,780
 That's right.

886
00:48:47,780 --> 00:48:51,300
 And again, I have to finish here with the homeowner.

887
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:52,340
 He's been very courteous.

888
00:48:52,340 --> 00:48:53,340
 He understands that.

889
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:57,280
 He has an interest in Denton and that's what he wants.

890
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,460
 So he really appreciates our effort.

891
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:01,940
 He knows we've spent some money.

892
00:49:01,940 --> 00:49:06,980
 I've showed him that $378,000 and he's like, wow, that's a lot of money.

893
00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:11,340
 So he just wants Larry's--

894
00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:12,340
 It's not lost, Donald.

895
00:49:12,340 --> 00:49:13,340
 Yeah.

896
00:49:13,340 --> 00:49:14,340
 I just wanted to make sure I wasn't beating you guys up.

897
00:49:14,340 --> 00:49:15,340
 No, no, no.

898
00:49:15,340 --> 00:49:16,340
 Exactly.

899
00:49:16,340 --> 00:49:17,340
 I just wanted to make sure it was clear on how this happened.

900
00:49:17,340 --> 00:49:18,340
 Exactly.

901
00:49:18,340 --> 00:49:19,340
 No, sir.

902
00:49:19,340 --> 00:49:20,340
 I didn't take it personally.

903
00:49:20,340 --> 00:49:21,340
 I don't take anything personal with his debt.

904
00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:22,340
 Okay.

905
00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:27,340
 Except I had hair when we started this and now it's gone.

906
00:49:27,340 --> 00:49:29,500
 Full head of curly hair.

907
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:30,500
 Yes, ma'am.

908
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:31,500
 Yes, ma'am.

909
00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:34,220
 On this occasion, I'm inclined to support putting the baffles in.

910
00:49:34,220 --> 00:49:35,220
 Absolutely.

911
00:49:35,220 --> 00:49:36,980
 It doesn't really make sense to do the birming like you're saying.

912
00:49:36,980 --> 00:49:37,980
 No, no.

913
00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:42,660
 It can end up being a good idea but I think we should spend some money putting something

914
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:44,660
 in the events there.

915
00:49:44,660 --> 00:49:45,660
 Okay.

916
00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:46,660
 I agree.

917
00:49:46,660 --> 00:49:47,660
 We need to be a good neighbor.

918
00:49:47,660 --> 00:49:48,660
 Okay.

919
00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:49,660
 Anybody?

920
00:49:49,660 --> 00:49:52,980
 I'm in favor of putting the baffles in.

921
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:58,700
 I just want to have some further explanation for the public as far as why we didn't have

922
00:49:58,700 --> 00:49:59,700
 this to begin with.

923
00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:05,260
 I know you weren't in control of that, Chris, I'm just saying that we need to have further

924
00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:09,660
 explanation of why we need to have these baffles out there and why they weren't put in in the

925
00:50:09,660 --> 00:50:10,660
 first place.

926
00:50:10,660 --> 00:50:11,660
 Okay.

927
00:50:11,660 --> 00:50:15,860
 If there could at least be some explanation of that.

928
00:50:15,860 --> 00:50:17,340
 I'll see what I can do on that.

929
00:50:17,340 --> 00:50:19,780
 Your questioning went way towards that.

930
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:20,780
 Yeah.

931
00:50:20,780 --> 00:50:26,860
 I think it may have been kind of the perspective of the, like the approach of the project at

932
00:50:26,860 --> 00:50:27,860
 the time.

933
00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:32,820
 I say that people were saying, well, the plan is at the middle of this piece of property

934
00:50:32,820 --> 00:50:36,620
 so nobody's even within 200 feet to get a notification.

935
00:50:36,620 --> 00:50:38,620
 Well, you and me aren't experts at that.

936
00:50:38,620 --> 00:50:39,620
 We can say that all day long.

937
00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:46,580
 You know, I'm just saying that that kind of got brought up over and over again but well,

938
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:47,580
 here it is.

939
00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:48,580
 Yes, sir.

940
00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:51,580
 We've got to deal with it, regardless of what happened in the past.

941
00:50:51,580 --> 00:50:52,580
 Yes, sir.

942
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:53,580
 Do you have what you need?

943
00:50:53,580 --> 00:50:54,580
 Yes, ma'am, I do.

944
00:50:54,580 --> 00:50:55,580
 All right.

945
00:50:55,580 --> 00:50:56,580
 Thank you for your time.

946
00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:57,580
 Thank you, Chris.

947
00:50:57,580 --> 00:50:58,580
 All right.

948
00:50:58,580 --> 00:50:59,580
 All right.

949
00:50:59,580 --> 00:51:08,500
 Next item, receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding solid waste

950
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:13,140
 department's home chemical collection, yard waste and brush collection and bulk waste

951
00:51:13,140 --> 00:51:18,540
 collection services.

952
00:51:18,540 --> 00:51:19,540
 Mr. Cox.

953
00:51:19,540 --> 00:51:21,940
 Good evening, Chair, members of the board.

954
00:51:21,940 --> 00:51:23,740
 Pleasure to be with you this evening.

955
00:51:23,740 --> 00:51:25,020
 My name is Ethan Cox.

956
00:51:25,020 --> 00:51:27,180
 I'm the director of public works for the city.

957
00:51:27,180 --> 00:51:30,260
 I have a fairly dense presentation for you this evening so I'm going to try to go through

958
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:32,260
 it very fast.

959
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:35,860
 We've got basically four or five different services that we're going to be looking at

960
00:51:35,860 --> 00:51:36,860
 this evening.

961
00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:40,660
 Kind of take you back a year in the time machine.

962
00:51:40,660 --> 00:51:44,260
 Last summer we had Blue Ridge Services come out and provide essentially a high level overview

963
00:51:44,260 --> 00:51:46,140
 of all of our operations of solid waste.

964
00:51:46,140 --> 00:51:48,820
 They had a number of recommendations that they made.

965
00:51:48,820 --> 00:51:52,780
 Whenever we presented this to council, they wanted us to kind of do a deeper dive on these

966
00:51:52,780 --> 00:51:55,940
 programs and so this is almost a year later.

967
00:51:55,940 --> 00:52:00,660
 We're finally finishing this up and so our goal would be to try to get through these

968
00:52:00,660 --> 00:52:03,340
 last four programs tonight.

969
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:07,460
 We feel like these go well together because they are all what we would call additional

970
00:52:07,460 --> 00:52:12,620
 residential services, above and beyond your typical refuse and recycling.

971
00:52:12,620 --> 00:52:17,180
 Some of the things we try to do with this, number one, I'll say this at the very front

972
00:52:17,180 --> 00:52:22,300
 is these are all programs that are very near and dear to a number of our residents' hearts.

973
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:25,880
 The participation isn't always there but it's one of those things that you don't know that

974
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,780
 you would miss it until it's gone so we are not advocating removing any of these programs.

975
00:52:30,780 --> 00:52:34,060
 What we really try to do is take a novel approach and say are there other options, are there

976
00:52:34,060 --> 00:52:37,500
 service delivery methods that we could do here.

977
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:40,560
 To that end, we do have a few challenges that we've identified.

978
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,220
 We've benchmarked with a number of cities so I'll kind of give you an overview of that.

979
00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:47,740
 And then in terms of our recommendations, really what we try to do is if we want to

980
00:52:47,740 --> 00:52:51,540
 provide options or alternatives, we want to make sure that those maintain a high level

981
00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:57,260
 of service, that we're improving our efficiency or equity, and also that we're maintaining

982
00:52:57,260 --> 00:53:03,100
 our commitment to encouraging residents to reduce and reuse as well as recycle.

983
00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:06,380
 We have some definitions here, I'm not really going to go through those but we may refer

984
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:08,660
 back to it if you have a question.

985
00:53:08,660 --> 00:53:12,540
 So again, these are the operations we're taking a look at.

986
00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:17,060
 In terms of objectives, I think the objective for all these operations or all these services

987
00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:21,780
 is really to ensure the proper handling, diversion and disposal of some of our harder to handle

988
00:53:21,780 --> 00:53:23,460
 items.

989
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:27,220
 Compliance certainly comes into play here as well as making sure that we're being effective

990
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:29,700
 and handling these things efficiently.

991
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:33,260
 We talk about efficiency, it's not just dollars and cents, it's a number of impacts that we're

992
00:53:33,260 --> 00:53:36,900
 having on the community which I'll dive into in just a moment.

993
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:39,260
 The purposes for some of these programs vary.

994
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:43,780
 Home chemical collections, for instance, that's actually a federal storm water permit requirement

995
00:53:43,780 --> 00:53:46,420
 so we must have a program of some sort.

996
00:53:46,420 --> 00:53:50,620
 The service must be delivered in some manner but ultimately that also not only diverts

997
00:53:50,620 --> 00:53:54,580
 hazardous materials away from the waterways but also the landfill.

998
00:53:54,580 --> 00:53:57,860
 Electronics and appliances, those too can contain some hazardous components so we want

999
00:53:57,860 --> 00:54:02,220
 to make sure those are recycled and handled properly when they're disposed.

1000
00:54:02,220 --> 00:54:05,700
 Bulky items, typically those are items that are too big to fit in your residential trash

1001
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:10,260
 cart and so what most communities find if you don't provide for a service on that it

1002
00:54:10,260 --> 00:54:14,400
 ends up on the side of the road somewhere, illegally dumped and so it's a critical service

1003
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,940
 that we provide.

1004
00:54:15,940 --> 00:54:20,140
 And then yard waste and brush, we divert all of that waste out of the landfill that actually

1005
00:54:20,140 --> 00:54:25,860
 serves as feedstock for our dino-dirt products which is a great program.

1006
00:54:25,860 --> 00:54:30,820
 In terms of residential collections, we do run collections Monday through Thursday.

1007
00:54:30,820 --> 00:54:35,740
 Essentially the city is divided up into quadrants so this little red section here to the northwest

1008
00:54:35,740 --> 00:54:43,020
 of town, that's our Monday segment, Tuesday is down to the south, Wednesday and then Thursday.

1009
00:54:43,020 --> 00:54:47,420
 Whenever we deploy to a segment of town we basically run in tow with about 29 vehicles,

1010
00:54:47,420 --> 00:54:52,940
 25 of which are heavy pieces of equipment and then 39 pieces of personnel, not pieces

1011
00:54:52,940 --> 00:54:55,980
 of personnel, people, 39 people.

1012
00:54:55,980 --> 00:55:00,500
 They're all whole, they're not pieces.

1013
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:05,900
 And so whenever we do deploy and we wanted to try to put this in a perspective is, so

1014
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:09,220
 we used to live in Denton, my son always, it was a treat to see the trash man coming

1015
00:55:09,220 --> 00:55:12,100
 down the street so he'd go out there and greet them, in some cases he's out there greeting

1016
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:17,500
 multiple times and so kind of the street side view is you can see up to nine vehicles coming

1017
00:55:17,500 --> 00:55:19,540
 down your street on any given day.

1018
00:55:19,540 --> 00:55:23,860
 So when we talk about efficiencies on programs it's not just the cost of providing that service,

1019
00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:27,940
 it's also wear and tear on the roads, wear and tear on the equipment as well as the emissions

1020
00:55:27,940 --> 00:55:28,940
 of all these vehicles.

1021
00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:33,380
 So your standard refuse truck that most everyone's accustomed to seeing, that's your automated

1022
00:55:33,380 --> 00:55:36,620
 side load, that's your refuse and your recycling.

1023
00:55:36,620 --> 00:55:42,420
 For bulk items we use two apparatuses, one is a rear load truck right here, the other

1024
00:55:42,420 --> 00:55:45,480
 one is a claw truck or known as a knuckle boom.

1025
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,060
 We use the same type of equipment for yard waste and brush.

1026
00:55:49,060 --> 00:55:52,780
 You also have your home chemical collections, electronics, appliances, we use a stake bed

1027
00:55:52,780 --> 00:55:53,780
 truck for that.

1028
00:55:53,780 --> 00:55:58,300
 For car delivery we use a box truck and then for supervisors and crew leaders we're using

1029
00:55:58,300 --> 00:56:03,460
 pickup trucks and so nine trucks and all is typically what you would see go up and down

1030
00:56:03,460 --> 00:56:04,460
 every street.

1031
00:56:04,460 --> 00:56:11,220
 In terms of participation we don't see everyone using these programs to the fullest extent.

1032
00:56:11,220 --> 00:56:14,380
 That's a concern or at least something that we want to investigate because everyone does

1033
00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:18,680
 pay for at least a portion of these programs, essentially it's being subsidized through

1034
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,980
 the residential rate set.

1035
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:25,260
 In terms of average daily participation for '17-'18 we have about 8,300 homes that we

1036
00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:27,580
 can service on any given day.

1037
00:56:27,580 --> 00:56:30,620
 Of that you see varying levels of participation.

1038
00:56:30,620 --> 00:56:36,300
 Waste and recycling, those are 82% participation and 67% respectively, we have pretty high

1039
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:38,620
 participation rates there.

1040
00:56:38,620 --> 00:56:43,180
 Yard waste is about 7% participation, one of the things on note here is that tonnage

1041
00:56:43,180 --> 00:56:44,300
 is very high though.

1042
00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:48,980
 You may have a smaller subset of folks participating but that's dense material and the folks that

1043
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:52,460
 use the program use it to a great extent.

1044
00:56:52,460 --> 00:56:56,200
 You get down to the bulky items, ACC and electronics and appliances you're looking at, about less

1045
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,100
 than 1% participation on each of those on a daily basis.

1046
00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:04,400
 So we feel like there are some opportunities for some consolidation here as well as maybe

1047
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,660
 some novel approaches to how we provide these services.

1048
00:57:07,660 --> 00:57:12,340
 Over here is the tonnages for '17-'18 as well as the net cost and as we go through

1049
00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:16,620
 the presentation we'll cut the net cost by participation to kind of give you a better

1050
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:20,740
 sense of what it costs per user.

1051
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:24,100
 In terms of opportunities for improvement we mentioned the collection efficiency, I'm

1052
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:26,280
 not going to belabor that.

1053
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,420
 In terms of improving equity because these are basically shared rates, subsidized rates,

1054
00:57:31,420 --> 00:57:36,260
 we do have heavy users versus the low to no users and so in other words some folks are

1055
00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:39,840
 paying for these programs and not using them at all.

1056
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,580
 For some of the folks it is high cost and low participation that means even if there's

1057
00:57:43,580 --> 00:57:48,360
 a fee being assessed the remainder is being assessed via the residential rates.

1058
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,380
 As for lawn service, tree trimmers, we do see some commercial entities taking advantage

1059
00:57:53,380 --> 00:57:58,380
 of us, our rates are lower than they are so they'll go in, trim up a tree and encourage

1060
00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:03,060
 the resident hey you can pay for this via curbside collection versus us charging you

1061
00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:07,460
 a little bit extra and so that's something that we just need to be cognizant of when

1062
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:12,180
 we set our rates and look at how we structure our program.

1063
00:58:12,180 --> 00:58:15,740
 There are some safety and environmental concerns that we also want to put out there, chemicals

1064
00:58:15,740 --> 00:58:20,700
 right now doing a curbside collection, those are exposed to the elements as well as members

1065
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:25,740
 of the public, spray paint is particularly troublesome for some of the customers of our

1066
00:58:25,740 --> 00:58:29,300
 program, they don't feel comfortable setting that out on the stoop.

1067
00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:33,380
 We do have some injury risk for our staff members, particularly for our yard waste crews,

1068
00:58:33,380 --> 00:58:38,220
 it's very manual in nature, it's about a 20% injury incident rate on an annual basis

1069
00:58:38,220 --> 00:58:42,380
 for them doing a lot of heavy lifting and then we have some plastic bags associated

1070
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:44,380
 with our yard waste too.

1071
00:58:44,380 --> 00:58:49,460
 So a few things, we'll just kind of give you some visuals of these, again chemicals

1072
00:58:49,460 --> 00:58:55,380
 and appliances, very few users, smaller volumes, we do want to have volume restrictions here

1073
00:58:55,380 --> 00:59:00,420
 to prevent abuses by commercial entities, we're not licensed to accept commercial chemicals,

1074
00:59:00,420 --> 00:59:03,220
 we can only accept residential chemicals.

1075
00:59:03,220 --> 00:59:06,280
 Aren't chemicals supposed to be in a box?

1076
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:07,280
 We would certainly prefer that.

1077
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,220
 I thought it was a requirement but okay.

1078
00:59:10,220 --> 00:59:14,420
 We would certainly prefer that, so like in this picture right here you have some light

1079
00:59:14,420 --> 00:59:20,720
 bulbs, all this is in the storm water area so if it starts raining someone runs over

1080
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,420
 those bulbs, now we've basically defeated one of the biggest purposes of the program

1081
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:29,180
 and so ideally what we would have is some way of containerizing this which we encourage

1082
00:59:29,180 --> 00:59:34,540
 folks to do but it's not uncommon for us to drive up and see them in this state.

1083
00:59:34,540 --> 00:59:38,260
 In terms of the electronics and appliances, one of the things, one of the reasons why

1084
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:43,140
 we may be seeing low participation is there are a lot of retail take back options now,

1085
00:59:43,140 --> 00:59:47,320
 recycling options, you buy a new refrigerator, Lowe's delivers the new one to your house,

1086
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:51,300
 they take the old one away for you and so this service may not be as critical as it

1087
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:56,780
 was five or ten years ago but again we still see about eight or ten folks per day use that.

1088
00:59:56,780 --> 01:00:00,340
 One of the things, if this was a working microwave we would obviously want someone to try to

1089
01:00:00,340 --> 01:00:02,420
 reuse that if they can.

1090
01:00:02,420 --> 01:00:08,420
 In addition, in terms of providing the collection service, I think really what we would encourage

1091
01:00:08,420 --> 01:00:12,100
 folks to do is bring that out to us and drop it off if you can and our rate structure should

1092
01:00:12,100 --> 01:00:15,860
 reflect that is really you're paying for the convenience of us coming by your house to

1093
01:00:15,860 --> 01:00:21,260
 pick it up and so I think there's some opportunities there too.

1094
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:25,200
 Collection frequency, again this is Monday through Thursday, every day of the week.

1095
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:30,060
 These are scheduled collections so we are going to point to point with a purpose there.

1096
01:00:30,060 --> 01:00:31,900
 Here's our restrictions.

1097
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:37,340
 In terms of fees and rate impact, HCC is bundled in with the monthly bill.

1098
01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:40,340
 The cost per collection runs about $254.

1099
01:00:40,340 --> 01:00:45,240
 This is one of our more expensive programs, less utilization.

1100
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,220
 Because it's bundled with the monthly bill that means every customer, every residential

1101
01:00:48,220 --> 01:00:52,540
 customer pays just under $2 a month for the service.

1102
01:00:52,540 --> 01:00:54,500
 Over here we have our benchmark.

1103
01:00:54,500 --> 01:00:58,500
 Essentially what we wanted to benchmark against is again the frequency of service, how the

1104
01:00:58,500 --> 01:01:02,420
 rates are structured and then we have some notes in terms of differences and how these

1105
01:01:02,420 --> 01:01:04,600
 programs are carried out.

1106
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,460
 Where you see red font that just means that that city is doing it a little bit different

1107
01:01:07,460 --> 01:01:09,460
 than us.

1108
01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:14,780
 Usually about 50/50 most folks are doing either drop-off centers and/or drop-off events as

1109
01:01:14,780 --> 01:01:17,220
 opposed to curbside collection.

1110
01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:20,980
 For those that are doing curbside collection, most of these are bundled services with a

1111
01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:23,740
 third-party hauler.

1112
01:01:23,740 --> 01:01:28,260
 In terms of rate structure, there are some that assess a fee but there are also others

1113
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:32,340
 that bundle that in as a service as well.

1114
01:01:32,340 --> 01:01:35,780
 Electronics and appliances, we do have a fee that we charge for this.

1115
01:01:35,780 --> 01:01:38,020
 It's a $20 fee for collection.

1116
01:01:38,020 --> 01:01:39,980
 The cost to deliver the service is actually $40.

1117
01:01:39,980 --> 01:01:43,700
 So this is one of those instances where our rate is just under recovering.

1118
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:49,880
 So the subsidization on the monthly bill is about $0.16 per month for a resident.

1119
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:55,420
 In terms of frequency, most of these services here, you'll notice in the notes column,

1120
01:01:55,420 --> 01:01:58,380
 most of them are not providing electronics collection.

1121
01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:02,900
 Two reasons that we can surmise on that, number one electronics nowadays, you can carry it

1122
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:03,900
 on your own.

1123
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:08,620
 It maybe fits in the back of a pickup truck, a car, so it's not as challenging as maybe

1124
01:02:08,620 --> 01:02:09,620
 a large appliance.

1125
01:02:09,620 --> 01:02:13,700
 But then also you have that retail take-back option.

1126
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:17,180
 In terms of frequency, what we're looking at here is mostly appliances.

1127
01:02:17,180 --> 01:02:21,620
 You have some monthly and semi-monthly but you also have a fair amount of weekly collections.

1128
01:02:21,620 --> 01:02:25,460
 And then we do have a few cities that are bundling this as opposed to that per item

1129
01:02:25,460 --> 01:02:26,460
 charge.

1130
01:02:26,460 --> 01:02:33,240
 Moving on to some of the challenges we're seeing with bulk waste, the biggest challenge

1131
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:37,580
 we have is the definitions that we have for bulk waste are very vague and it leads to

1132
01:02:37,580 --> 01:02:39,220
 what you see in these pictures here.

1133
01:02:39,220 --> 01:02:43,820
 One of the things that we often get questions on is, well, is a door bulk waste?

1134
01:02:43,820 --> 01:02:47,900
 Well, technically that's construction and demolition, but we can handle one door.

1135
01:02:47,900 --> 01:02:50,300
 We can't handle 16 doors.

1136
01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:53,700
 So there are some nuances here.

1137
01:02:53,700 --> 01:02:56,960
 What you see in these photos here, obviously you have fence panels and a large amount of

1138
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:58,400
 construction debris.

1139
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:03,100
 We would much prefer that to be either delivered to us or us at a roll-off container to deal

1140
01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:04,580
 with that.

1141
01:03:04,580 --> 01:03:11,020
 Wood waste is one thing, but we also see folks set out tile, granite, things like that that

1142
01:03:11,020 --> 01:03:13,460
 can actually damage our equipment when we try to lift it.

1143
01:03:13,460 --> 01:03:16,940
 And so we do feel like there needs to be a distinction in our ordinance about what is

1144
01:03:16,940 --> 01:03:19,040
 bulk and what is not.

1145
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:20,820
 We also have confusing volume restrictions.

1146
01:03:20,820 --> 01:03:25,620
 It's based on a cubic yard basis and so I would ask you what your definition of a cubic

1147
01:03:25,620 --> 01:03:29,980
 yard is, but I know we'll get seven different answers or five different answers.

1148
01:03:29,980 --> 01:03:34,340
 We have this little graphic back here is we can either give you the dimensions and have

1149
01:03:34,340 --> 01:03:39,180
 you do the math yourself or we can tell you it's about the size of a washing machine.

1150
01:03:39,180 --> 01:03:40,740
 And that's worked for a little while.

1151
01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:43,740
 I was actually looking at a website earlier today and they said, "Well, we'll allow up

1152
01:03:43,740 --> 01:03:47,320
 to the size of a Volkswagen bug," is what one of the programs describes.

1153
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,780
 So I don't know if we're that generous.

1154
01:03:49,780 --> 01:03:53,560
 I haven't done a measurement on a Volkswagen bug in a while.

1155
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,940
 So there are confusing volume restrictions that we think we could get a little bit easier

1156
01:03:56,940 --> 01:03:59,520
 to explain, a little bit more precise.

1157
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,600
 We again have heavy users versus low users.

1158
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:07,100
 And also when it comes to some of this kind of stuff, there's also reuse opportunities.

1159
01:04:07,100 --> 01:04:12,900
 We much prefer to direct these citizens to Goodwill, Salvation Army, some of those places.

1160
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:20,500
 This is good usable furniture here and so in terms of benchmark, we are fairly similar

1161
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,980
 to most of the other programs over here.

1162
01:04:22,980 --> 01:04:26,400
 I think frequency is where you see the biggest difference.

1163
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,260
 We talked about our restrictions in terms of cost.

1164
01:04:30,260 --> 01:04:34,900
 The cost per collection is about $58 per collection, which is about a dollar per month.

1165
01:04:34,900 --> 01:04:39,420
 But we do feel like this is a critical program that we would not want to start changing with

1166
01:04:39,420 --> 01:04:43,380
 too much simply because of that illegal dumping component.

1167
01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:47,100
 In terms of the restrictions, one city that we really like how they do their restrictions

1168
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:48,100
 is Frisco.

1169
01:04:48,100 --> 01:04:50,980
 Instead of the cubic yards, they do it based on an item limit.

1170
01:04:50,980 --> 01:04:53,700
 It's much easier to explain, much easier to understand.

1171
01:04:53,700 --> 01:04:55,940
 I'm not saying there won't be confusion there.

1172
01:04:55,940 --> 01:05:00,340
 I think one of the points the COE brought up is, well, do you count the drawers in the

1173
01:05:00,340 --> 01:05:03,220
 chest of drawers as one item or six or seven items?

1174
01:05:03,220 --> 01:05:04,540
 Oh, just put the drawers back in there.

1175
01:05:04,540 --> 01:05:05,540
 Just put the drawers back in.

1176
01:05:05,540 --> 01:05:06,540
 It's one item.

1177
01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:07,540
 We're fine.

1178
01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:10,380
 Same thing you run into at the grocery store.

1179
01:05:10,380 --> 01:05:12,540
 Is that 15 items or is that 10 items?

1180
01:05:12,540 --> 01:05:18,860
 Cram them all in there, you know, that's what we recommend.

1181
01:05:18,860 --> 01:05:24,220
 So yard waste and brush is probably our most inefficient collection operation that we run.

1182
01:05:24,220 --> 01:05:29,820
 The biggest reason why is we run up and down every street, bird dogging, yard waste and

1183
01:05:29,820 --> 01:05:32,180
 a bulk brush collection.

1184
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:36,320
 The way I explained it to the COE is it's like going into Walmart knowing you need three

1185
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:40,340
 items and going up and down every aisle looking at every shelf.

1186
01:05:40,340 --> 01:05:43,300
 You'll still get your items at the end of the day, but you probably spend about three

1187
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:47,420
 hours as opposed to the 15 minutes that if you went in with a purpose.

1188
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:51,340
 That being said, we understand that any change to this program is going to affect some folks

1189
01:05:51,340 --> 01:05:54,460
 in our community that they're going to be pretty passionate about.

1190
01:05:54,460 --> 01:05:56,540
 We also have the heavy users versus low users.

1191
01:05:56,540 --> 01:05:59,300
 This has a cubic yardage limit.

1192
01:05:59,300 --> 01:06:04,300
 So we provide four cubic yards for free, $7 per cubic yard over that.

1193
01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:07,700
 So about half of this right here in these bags would meet the limit.

1194
01:06:07,700 --> 01:06:12,740
 It would be $7 times four for the rest of that, so about a $28 collection above and

1195
01:06:12,740 --> 01:06:15,260
 beyond standard collection here.

1196
01:06:15,260 --> 01:06:18,540
 We talked about the plastic bags not being environmentally friendly.

1197
01:06:18,540 --> 01:06:23,540
 They also mask what is in that bag, so our guys go to tear it open, and not often, but

1198
01:06:23,540 --> 01:06:26,100
 sometimes there are surprises in there.

1199
01:06:26,100 --> 01:06:29,860
 They do get puncture wounds sometimes from the limbs.

1200
01:06:29,860 --> 01:06:33,180
 We talked about the abuse by commercial landscapers and tree trimmers.

1201
01:06:33,180 --> 01:06:35,380
 This picture here actually has a story with it.

1202
01:06:35,380 --> 01:06:41,180
 This is an elderly lady that she paid a commercial tree trimmer to come in and trim her trees.

1203
01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:43,940
 They got to the end of the job and she said, "Okay, well, I thought you were going to haul

1204
01:06:43,940 --> 01:06:44,940
 it off."

1205
01:06:44,940 --> 01:06:45,940
 And they said, "Well, don't worry about it.

1206
01:06:45,940 --> 01:06:46,940
 The city provides that service.

1207
01:06:46,940 --> 01:06:48,660
 It's in your collection day."

1208
01:06:48,660 --> 01:06:50,220
 She took them at their word.

1209
01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:55,860
 Our staff comes out using these restrictions right here in this fee, $7 per cubic yard

1210
01:06:55,860 --> 01:06:57,160
 in excess.

1211
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,060
 Her bill, Tina, correct me on this, was it $600 or closer to $900?

1212
01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:05,500
 It was going to be close to $900.

1213
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:11,220
 And so that's Exhibit A for how broken our rate structure is, and also how some folks

1214
01:07:11,220 --> 01:07:15,740
 are getting caught with this whenever they're not paying attention to what they're actually

1215
01:07:15,740 --> 01:07:16,740
 paying for.

1216
01:07:16,740 --> 01:07:18,420
 So we feel like that needs to be corrected.

1217
01:07:18,420 --> 01:07:22,380
 Ultimately, I think we had three or four guys go up there and clean it up in about an hour

1218
01:07:22,380 --> 01:07:24,060
 and got it taken care of for it.

1219
01:07:24,060 --> 01:07:27,940
 But again, when we talk about a rate structure or restrictions that aren't working, I think

1220
01:07:27,940 --> 01:07:31,860
 this is Exhibit A.

1221
01:07:31,860 --> 01:07:36,100
 So again, unscheduled is the biggest inefficiency that we have here.

1222
01:07:36,100 --> 01:07:41,180
 The restrictions we talked about, this is bundled with the monthly bill.

1223
01:07:41,180 --> 01:07:45,380
 Cost is about $20 per collection, but this is right there on par with what you would

1224
01:07:45,380 --> 01:07:48,160
 pay for refuse from recycling service.

1225
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,300
 So when we say that there's some opportunities for efficiency here, we do think we can be

1226
01:07:52,300 --> 01:07:55,780
 a bit more equitable about how we structure our rate and also be a bit more purposeful

1227
01:07:55,780 --> 01:07:57,660
 in terms of how we run the routes.

1228
01:07:57,660 --> 01:08:02,260
 Now, when you have an electrical item, because we haven't done it for a couple years now,

1229
01:08:02,260 --> 01:08:07,260
 we call you and tell you that I have this item that I need you to pick up.

1230
01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:08,260
 Correct.

1231
01:08:08,260 --> 01:08:11,060
 Can we do that with yard waste?

1232
01:08:11,060 --> 01:08:15,140
 Yard waste, what you see over here, and this is not brush, I have a few notes on brush

1233
01:08:15,140 --> 01:08:16,140
 over here.

1234
01:08:16,140 --> 01:08:20,820
 For brush, the answer is absolutely that's what we would recommend is brush is an infrequent

1235
01:08:20,820 --> 01:08:21,820
 thing.

1236
01:08:21,820 --> 01:08:25,820
 If you're generating brush every week, something's wrong, at least high volumes of brush like

1237
01:08:25,820 --> 01:08:27,540
 you're seeing here.

1238
01:08:27,540 --> 01:08:32,300
 Yard waste, especially during growing season, you see a more regular accumulation of that.

1239
01:08:32,300 --> 01:08:35,900
 To that end, you see most of these cities are doing this weekly.

1240
01:08:35,900 --> 01:08:41,180
 I think Dallas is the one difference here with monthly, but the difference is in terms

1241
01:08:41,180 --> 01:08:42,420
 of how they're meeting that out.

1242
01:08:42,420 --> 01:08:48,420
 For yard clippings and leaves, these with the asterisk here, they are not allowing plastic

1243
01:08:48,420 --> 01:08:49,420
 bags.

1244
01:08:49,420 --> 01:08:53,340
 One of the reasons is you don't know what's in there, plus the bag is not compostable

1245
01:08:53,340 --> 01:08:54,340
 itself.

1246
01:08:54,340 --> 01:08:59,340
 If we want to compost this, we're adding an extra step in the process that's unnecessary.

1247
01:08:59,340 --> 01:09:03,380
 Fort Worth is actually using a combination of trash bags, or not trash bags, craft bags

1248
01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:04,380
 and carts.

1249
01:09:04,380 --> 01:09:08,020
 On Blue Ridge Services, that's what they recommended when they came in last time.

1250
01:09:08,020 --> 01:09:09,460
 They're from California.

1251
01:09:09,460 --> 01:09:11,540
 They're all using carts out there.

1252
01:09:11,540 --> 01:09:16,260
 There are some capacity concerns with that, but it does make the process much more automated.

1253
01:09:16,260 --> 01:09:20,060
 It does knock down on your worker injuries as well.

1254
01:09:20,060 --> 01:09:24,500
 In terms of brush, we see a wide array of what folks are doing differently here.

1255
01:09:24,500 --> 01:09:27,660
 Austin is only providing semiannual brush collection.

1256
01:09:27,660 --> 01:09:30,260
 Dallas does on demand, but they basically charge it by the job.

1257
01:09:30,260 --> 01:09:34,100
 They do cost plus in terms of setting their rates.

1258
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:39,720
 The two that we liked in terms of benchmark is Flower Mound does large volumes.

1259
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,820
 Those are billed at an hourly rate.

1260
01:09:41,820 --> 01:09:46,740
 The elderly lady that we went out to help, if our hourly rate was $40 times three guys

1261
01:09:46,740 --> 01:09:52,040
 on the job, $120, and that's probably about what she would pay a commercial tree trimmer

1262
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:53,040
 to collect.

1263
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,380
 I think we did a benchmark for tree trimmers in the area.

1264
01:09:55,380 --> 01:10:00,460
 Tina, do you recall kind of where their rates were?

1265
01:10:00,460 --> 01:10:04,020
 Right around $40, $45 for the labor.

1266
01:10:04,020 --> 01:10:05,900
 The other one, Plano is doing something similar.

1267
01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:09,420
 If the collection takes longer than 15 minutes, then they charge an hourly rate.

1268
01:10:09,420 --> 01:10:13,000
 Can I ask you a quick question?

1269
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:21,420
 This particular collection has to do with our Dino Dirt project as well.

1270
01:10:21,420 --> 01:10:27,540
 Does it still cost us $20 per collection, even though we're turning it into a commodity

1271
01:10:27,540 --> 01:10:28,980
 and then selling it?

1272
01:10:28,980 --> 01:10:32,380
 My understanding on the Dino Dirt is that they're breaking even.

1273
01:10:32,380 --> 01:10:36,780
 They do not incur all the cost associated with the collection.

1274
01:10:36,780 --> 01:10:41,140
 Do we get revenue sharing out of that program, Tina?

1275
01:10:41,140 --> 01:10:48,500
 We get a reimbursement for the administrative fee for causing the scales, so the transaction

1276
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:49,500
 will be for that.

1277
01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:50,900
 There's two different pieces to this.

1278
01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:54,120
 What we're talking about today is a collections piece.

1279
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:57,360
 That's about a third of the feedstock for the Dino Dirt operation.

1280
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,220
 The other two-thirds is actually commercial operations crossing the scales.

1281
01:11:01,220 --> 01:11:06,300
 What Tina's talking about is $6 per trip across the scales is our revenue share on

1282
01:11:06,300 --> 01:11:07,300
 that.

1283
01:11:07,300 --> 01:11:12,500
 So what you're seeing here is the burden for the rate payer that's actually putting

1284
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:13,940
 that feedstock into that program.

1285
01:11:13,940 --> 01:11:15,940
 Does that make sense?

1286
01:11:15,940 --> 01:11:16,940
 Yes.

1287
01:11:16,940 --> 01:11:17,940
 Yes.

1288
01:11:17,940 --> 01:11:23,460
 I bet some people, myself included, would appreciate that being clearer somehow, since

1289
01:11:23,460 --> 01:11:31,620
 you were paying to have something taken away that then maybe it's not solid waste, but

1290
01:11:31,620 --> 01:11:34,700
 the city then is selling.

1291
01:11:34,700 --> 01:11:41,780
 So it seems like it would be nice to see, like, are we paying less than other communities

1292
01:11:41,780 --> 01:11:43,780
 who don't turn it into Dino Dirt?

1293
01:11:43,780 --> 01:11:47,380
 Are we paying more than other communities, you see what I'm saying?

1294
01:11:47,380 --> 01:11:51,460
 In general, some communities don't provide this type of service, but in general, I think

1295
01:11:51,460 --> 01:11:56,920
 our residential rates are higher because the levels of service that we provide are greater.

1296
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,860
 We have a long-term goal, or a lot of other places don't, our long-term goal is to save

1297
01:12:00,860 --> 01:12:05,020
 space in our landfills, so therefore we are paying for that somewhat.

1298
01:12:05,020 --> 01:12:06,020
 Right.

1299
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:10,700
 One of the things that we are working on, to council's request, is a commercial food

1300
01:12:10,700 --> 01:12:16,380
 diversion program, that that definitely pulls in all of this in terms of the analysis, and

1301
01:12:16,380 --> 01:12:21,700
 so we've already had some discussions internally about just kind of vetting out the full system

1302
01:12:21,700 --> 01:12:25,860
 economics of, okay, how's Dino Dirt working, how's our collection working, who's paying

1303
01:12:25,860 --> 01:12:29,540
 for what, and kind of taking another look at this.

1304
01:12:29,540 --> 01:12:36,220
 Kind of anecdotally, my understanding is that they don't have enough feedstock, i.e., brush

1305
01:12:36,220 --> 01:12:40,260
 and yard waste, to deal with everything they're trying to compost over there from a biosolids

1306
01:12:40,260 --> 01:12:46,060
 standpoint, and so with that being the case, we would actually need to be selling more

1307
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:50,260
 product and pushing it out the door in order for this to come down.

1308
01:12:50,260 --> 01:12:58,860
 Something we can take a look at and bring back to you when we do that next analysis.

1309
01:12:58,860 --> 01:13:03,320
 So what we have here is basically a table of, you know, we looked at the challenges,

1310
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:07,700
 we looked at some novel approaches to this, and so kind of the same way we ran the benchmark,

1311
01:13:07,700 --> 01:13:10,020
 I'll kind of go through these one by one.

1312
01:13:10,020 --> 01:13:14,760
 The red font is basically if we wanted to make a change or approach an alternative service

1313
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:18,740
 delivery option, this is what we as staff would recommend.

1314
01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:22,540
 Understand that there's nothing pressing us to make a change to the programs.

1315
01:13:22,540 --> 01:13:26,220
 We wanted to have this discussion with PB and council, number one, to close the loop

1316
01:13:26,220 --> 01:13:30,380
 on Blue Ridge's recommendations, but also it is budget time, so if we're going to make

1317
01:13:30,380 --> 01:13:35,100
 changes to these programs, we'd definitely like to incorporate that into our budget and

1318
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:38,020
 our rate structure for next year.

1319
01:13:38,020 --> 01:13:41,340
 As for home chemical collection, the service model that most others are using is drop-off

1320
01:13:41,340 --> 01:13:43,720
 service and collection events.

1321
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,280
 If we were to approach something like that, we would recommend remaining as a bundled

1322
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,340
 service in the rate structure.

1323
01:13:49,340 --> 01:13:52,680
 That would allow us, how we would basically push that out is having weekly or monthly

1324
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,320
 collection events.

1325
01:13:54,320 --> 01:14:00,060
 We could bundle that with other services, such as recycling and other types of collections,

1326
01:14:00,060 --> 01:14:01,060
 appliances, electronics.

1327
01:14:01,060 --> 01:14:05,500
 One of the things that we look at in our home chemical collection, we do a drop-off service

1328
01:14:05,500 --> 01:14:09,020
 there now, but we're open Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 p.m.

1329
01:14:09,020 --> 01:14:13,140
 It's convenient for our staff, it's not convenient when you're cleaning out your garage.

1330
01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:18,100
 So if we do move to that model, we would recommend changing for weekend hours to really target

1331
01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:21,700
 the folks when they're cleaning out their garage and moving out.

1332
01:14:21,700 --> 01:14:24,180
 We could also expand the program to accept regional waste.

1333
01:14:24,180 --> 01:14:29,540
 That would introduce a revenue stream into the program, help offset some of those costs.

1334
01:14:29,540 --> 01:14:31,660
 We've talked about that before.

1335
01:14:31,660 --> 01:14:36,180
 We're just now getting to a point in our operation where we feel like we could support that.

1336
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:38,460
 What does regional waste mean?

1337
01:14:38,460 --> 01:14:42,700
 So in terms of home chemical collections, we could accept waste from others in Denton

1338
01:14:42,700 --> 01:14:43,840
 County.

1339
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,620
 We do get approached by a number of cities, residents from those cities that basically

1340
01:14:47,620 --> 01:14:50,420
 come up and, "Hey, I got a can of paint, will you guys take it?"

1341
01:14:50,420 --> 01:14:53,700
 Well, the answer right now is no, because we really don't have a fee to recover the

1342
01:14:53,700 --> 01:14:56,340
 cost for them bringing it to us.

1343
01:14:56,340 --> 01:15:01,140
 So the regional program, we would partner with those cities and/or run a cash collection

1344
01:15:01,140 --> 01:15:03,620
 operation for the acceptance of that waste.

1345
01:15:03,620 --> 01:15:05,580
 It would still just be residential?

1346
01:15:05,580 --> 01:15:06,580
 Correct.

1347
01:15:06,580 --> 01:15:07,940
 We cannot take commercial.

1348
01:15:07,940 --> 01:15:12,620
 We cannot take commercial, and that's why for programs like this, you do have some limitations

1349
01:15:12,620 --> 01:15:14,540
 or some volume limits.

1350
01:15:14,540 --> 01:15:19,900
 If not, you definitely want to check residents' driver's license, where are you coming from,

1351
01:15:19,900 --> 01:15:24,220
 and we log that to make sure you're not coming by every day kind of metering out your commercial

1352
01:15:24,220 --> 01:15:27,500
 waste.

1353
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:32,160
 In terms of electronic appliances, what we're seeing with others is really discontinuing

1354
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:34,620
 the collection, especially for electronics.

1355
01:15:34,620 --> 01:15:37,900
 If we don't want to do that, if we want to keep that here, you also have the option of

1356
01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:40,460
 increasing the fee to fully cost recover.

1357
01:15:40,460 --> 01:15:45,100
 This is a small subsidy on the residential bill, but it is one that may be unnecessary

1358
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:48,180
 if we take one of those two steps there.

1359
01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:52,860
 Either way, we do want to continue to promote donation centers and retail take back programs.

1360
01:15:52,860 --> 01:15:58,380
 We prefer to be the recycler of last resort and not incur those costs if we could.

1361
01:15:58,380 --> 01:16:00,940
 Bulk waste, we really don't recommend many changes here.

1362
01:16:00,940 --> 01:16:02,780
 Again, we feel that that's a critical service.

1363
01:16:02,780 --> 01:16:06,820
 One of the things that we have had a request for is to introduce commercial bulk collection

1364
01:16:06,820 --> 01:16:10,900
 to help knock down some of the illegal dumping our businesses are seeing.

1365
01:16:10,900 --> 01:16:14,620
 So we can certainly build that into the rate structure.

1366
01:16:14,620 --> 01:16:17,580
 Like I mentioned earlier, we would do want to revise the restrictions, make it a per

1367
01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:21,740
 item versus a per cubic yard basis, simplify that.

1368
01:16:21,740 --> 01:16:26,420
 In terms of brush, the recommendation we have here is do get that to a scheduled service

1369
01:16:26,420 --> 01:16:31,100
 so that we are being more purposeful and more efficient, as well as revising those restrictions

1370
01:16:31,100 --> 01:16:33,420
 in the rate structure.

1371
01:16:33,420 --> 01:16:38,500
 The last one we have here is probably the most radical option or recommendation.

1372
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:41,680
 Yard waste versus going up and down every street, we would make that a subscription

1373
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:42,680
 service.

1374
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,740
 And I think the knee-jerk reaction when we introduce this to COE is, well, folks will

1375
01:16:46,740 --> 01:16:47,740
 just put it in the trash.

1376
01:16:47,740 --> 01:16:50,460
 And I understand that thought process.

1377
01:16:50,460 --> 01:16:54,540
 I think for where we are coming from on this, it doesn't have to be a big fee.

1378
01:16:54,540 --> 01:16:57,500
 The fee is beside the point, it's opting in and opting out.

1379
01:16:57,500 --> 01:17:00,460
 The program is really what we are looking for.

1380
01:17:00,460 --> 01:17:04,300
 What that allows us to do is put a pin in a map and say we are going here today versus

1381
01:17:04,300 --> 01:17:09,020
 we are driving up and down these six streets trying to find that point.

1382
01:17:09,020 --> 01:17:11,880
 It also allows folks to opt in and out on a seasonal basis.

1383
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:16,500
 So if you are not going to use it in the non-growing season, then save yourself a dollar, opt out,

1384
01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:19,260
 and our route just got that much more efficient.

1385
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:22,780
 A couple of different ways we could approach that, and this can be bundled with it.

1386
01:17:22,780 --> 01:17:24,700
 It can be mutually exclusive of it.

1387
01:17:24,700 --> 01:17:29,180
 If we want to get away from the plastic bags, we would recommend either doing carts and/or

1388
01:17:29,180 --> 01:17:30,180
 craft bags.

1389
01:17:30,180 --> 01:17:32,320
 A combination of both is fine.

1390
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:37,060
 If we do move to carts, one of the things we have heard, again, as kind of a policy

1391
01:17:37,060 --> 01:17:40,300
 priority is food waste diversion.

1392
01:17:40,300 --> 01:17:45,380
 In our current composting program, we can accept pre-consumer vegetative food waste.

1393
01:17:45,380 --> 01:17:49,220
 That's the stalk of celery you thought you would eat, but you decided you didn't really

1394
01:17:49,220 --> 01:17:50,220
 want to.

1395
01:17:50,220 --> 01:17:51,220
 The banana peels.

1396
01:17:51,220 --> 01:17:54,260
 You can put that in your yard waste cart, and we can accept that in our current composting

1397
01:17:54,260 --> 01:17:55,260
 program.

1398
01:17:55,260 --> 01:17:58,020
 I actually like that a lot.

1399
01:17:58,020 --> 01:18:02,080
 We think there are some benefits here, but this is going to require some behavior change

1400
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:05,820
 that I think we are going to get some community pushback on, and it's going to require an

1401
01:18:05,820 --> 01:18:09,420
 education effort on our part to get folks on board.

1402
01:18:09,420 --> 01:18:13,780
 We do think that solves multiple challenges and also opens up some doors for some other

1403
01:18:13,780 --> 01:18:16,420
 things that we could do as well.

1404
01:18:16,420 --> 01:18:17,540
 We took it to COE.

1405
01:18:17,540 --> 01:18:19,460
 They did buy into a few of these.

1406
01:18:19,460 --> 01:18:20,460
 It's probably about 50/50.

1407
01:18:20,460 --> 01:18:25,140
 One of the things they recommended that wasn't on here is for these service requests, it

1408
01:18:25,140 --> 01:18:28,820
 really needs to be electronic, able to do it on the website, able to do it on your mobile

1409
01:18:28,820 --> 01:18:29,820
 app.

1410
01:18:29,820 --> 01:18:30,820
 We agree.

1411
01:18:30,820 --> 01:18:34,300
 We do have a new system coming online, hopefully in the next couple of years that we'll meet

1412
01:18:34,300 --> 01:18:35,980
 that need.

1413
01:18:35,980 --> 01:18:41,620
 The things that the COE recommended supporting is introducing the commercial bulk waste, converting

1414
01:18:41,620 --> 01:18:43,820
 to schedule service for brush.

1415
01:18:43,820 --> 01:18:48,060
 They also recommended adding a commercial brush collection as an option into that service

1416
01:18:48,060 --> 01:18:49,060
 model as well.

1417
01:18:49,060 --> 01:18:53,060
 We haven't had a chance to look at that, but certainly if that's the direction the board

1418
01:18:53,060 --> 01:18:57,060
 and the council want to go, we'll certainly vet that out.

1419
01:18:57,060 --> 01:19:02,260
 In terms of next steps, recommending changes to the rates, we want to build that into fiscal

1420
01:19:02,260 --> 01:19:04,020
 year '19-'20.

1421
01:19:04,020 --> 01:19:06,460
 We do want to revise our Chapter 24 ordinance.

1422
01:19:06,460 --> 01:19:10,620
 That's basically the solid waste ordinance, has not been updated since 2005.

1423
01:19:10,620 --> 01:19:13,100
 It needs some touching up.

1424
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:17,580
 Then in terms of implementation, whatever we decide, we do feel like we can implement

1425
01:19:17,580 --> 01:19:20,580
 all those recommendations by October 1.

1426
01:19:20,580 --> 01:19:25,460
 That would include procurement of route optimization services, redesigning our service models and

1427
01:19:25,460 --> 01:19:28,860
 getting a communication and marketing plan together.

1428
01:19:28,860 --> 01:19:33,500
 So with that, I'll circle back to this and see what the PUB's feelings are on the options

1429
01:19:33,500 --> 01:19:34,500
 on the table.

1430
01:19:34,500 --> 01:19:51,300
 I have a question for you about how you calculated the costs of home chemical collection at $254

1431
01:19:51,300 --> 01:19:52,300
 per collection.

1432
01:19:52,300 --> 01:19:53,980
 Is that what that meant?

1433
01:19:53,980 --> 01:19:54,980
 Yes.

1434
01:19:54,980 --> 01:19:55,980
 Yes.

1435
01:19:55,980 --> 01:20:00,820
 Help me understand that because I want that job because if I'm only doing it 14 times

1436
01:20:00,820 --> 01:20:08,140
 in a day, and I'm going to make $254 per, I mean, that doesn't make any sense at all

1437
01:20:08,140 --> 01:20:09,140
 to me.

1438
01:20:09,140 --> 01:20:11,700
 This is a truck driving around town, right?

1439
01:20:11,700 --> 01:20:12,700
 It is.

1440
01:20:12,700 --> 01:20:14,180
 Now, we have made this a bit more efficient.

1441
01:20:14,180 --> 01:20:18,100
 You have basically home chemical collection electronics and appliances all being collected

1442
01:20:18,100 --> 01:20:19,820
 via one truck.

1443
01:20:19,820 --> 01:20:24,380
 You essentially have this cost, this is the cost for the home chemical collection, divided

1444
01:20:24,380 --> 01:20:26,860
 by the number of participants on a yearly basis.

1445
01:20:26,860 --> 01:20:33,980
 So you take this and multiply it by about how many operating days, Tina, 207 operating

1446
01:20:33,980 --> 01:20:35,660
 days.

1447
01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:42,060
 So as your numerator, that becomes your denominator and you get about $200-some-odd per collection.

1448
01:20:42,060 --> 01:20:46,100
 And so even greater usage wouldn't reduce that cost is what you're saying.

1449
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:49,020
 I think what you've got to look at with home chemical collection, we've talked a little

1450
01:20:49,020 --> 01:20:54,260
 bit about this, is we need to introduce revenue into the program, i.e. the regional revenue

1451
01:20:54,260 --> 01:21:02,060
 stream, but then we also look at is portside collection the most efficient way to do this.

1452
01:21:02,060 --> 01:21:08,580
 You do get some cost savings by having it run as events or as a drop-off instead of

1453
01:21:08,580 --> 01:21:12,180
 dispatching a unit out and trying to collect it on the curb every day.

1454
01:21:12,180 --> 01:21:17,500
 And just can you tell me what all is wrapped into that $762,000?

1455
01:21:17,500 --> 01:21:22,540
 A lot of fixed costs, when I say fixed cost, is personnel and equipment.

1456
01:21:22,540 --> 01:21:27,260
 We do have some variable costs for processing the chemicals, the electronics, the appliances,

1457
01:21:27,260 --> 01:21:34,900
 but those are very minor in nature compared to the personnel, the facilities, the equipment.

1458
01:21:34,900 --> 01:21:37,780
 Again, this is a soup to nuts.

1459
01:21:37,780 --> 01:21:39,780
 So it's not just the collection on the front end.

1460
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:42,180
 We are managing this hazardous waste on the back end.

1461
01:21:42,180 --> 01:21:47,380
 So once it enters our facility, we may be dealing with a flammable bulk weight.

1462
01:21:47,380 --> 01:21:53,420
 And as a result, instead of the $10 it costs you to buy in loads, it may cost us $500, $700,

1463
01:21:53,420 --> 01:21:54,420
 $800.

1464
01:21:54,420 --> 01:21:55,980
 This has got your utilities overhead.

1465
01:21:55,980 --> 01:21:56,980
 Exactly.

1466
01:21:56,980 --> 01:21:58,940
 And disposal and everything else.

1467
01:21:58,940 --> 01:21:59,940
 Got it.

1468
01:21:59,940 --> 01:22:00,940
 Okay.

1469
01:22:00,940 --> 01:22:01,940
 Thank you.

1470
01:22:01,940 --> 01:22:02,940
 Thank you.

1471
01:22:02,940 --> 01:22:03,940
 Other questions?

1472
01:22:03,940 --> 01:22:05,380
 Yeah, I had a question about the electronics and appliances.

1473
01:22:05,380 --> 01:22:10,500
 Can you go back to that other slide about what we were going to do with it?

1474
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:11,500
 This one?

1475
01:22:11,500 --> 01:22:17,180
 Yeah, I'm like, okay, so you're proposing that we discontinue collection or increase

1476
01:22:17,180 --> 01:22:18,180
 the fee?

1477
01:22:18,180 --> 01:22:22,340
 We can do either/or and we can certainly stay the same.

1478
01:22:22,340 --> 01:22:28,140
 I think what we've seen a lot of other communities do is they discontinue collection of electronics.

1479
01:22:28,140 --> 01:22:31,340
 They continue to offer the appliances and they continue to offer the appliances for

1480
01:22:31,340 --> 01:22:34,420
 a fee if they're diverting it.

1481
01:22:34,420 --> 01:22:39,380
 There's many different flavors of chocolate in terms of how -- or not chocolate, ice cream.

1482
01:22:39,380 --> 01:22:43,580
 There's many different flavors of ice cream in terms of how these services get doled out.

1483
01:22:43,580 --> 01:22:47,060
 And so in terms of diverting this and ensuring it gets recycled, that means that it has to

1484
01:22:47,060 --> 01:22:48,660
 be a separate collection.

1485
01:22:48,660 --> 01:22:51,900
 That's where usually you see the fees associated with this.

1486
01:22:51,900 --> 01:22:55,540
 For the communities that collect this as bulk waste and it goes to the landfill, they usually

1487
01:22:55,540 --> 01:22:58,540
 just bundle that into the bulk waste collection.

1488
01:22:58,540 --> 01:22:59,540
 Okay.

1489
01:22:59,540 --> 01:23:00,620
 All right.

1490
01:23:00,620 --> 01:23:04,180
 It's because I've got a TV that I need to get rid of.

1491
01:23:04,180 --> 01:23:05,180
 We haven't changed anything yet.

1492
01:23:05,180 --> 01:23:08,180
 Hurry up and put it on the curb.

1493
01:23:08,180 --> 01:23:13,460
 No, so what I'm trying to do -- because I mean, I think this happens to a lot of families,

1494
01:23:13,460 --> 01:23:17,740
 you know, you've got the big TV, all right, and then you want a bigger TV.

1495
01:23:17,740 --> 01:23:21,700
 So the old TV goes to one of the kids' bedrooms, right?

1496
01:23:21,700 --> 01:23:25,820
 And then it keeps going on down the line, and then at the -- and then when that TV finally

1497
01:23:25,820 --> 01:23:30,500
 breaks, there's not a -- you don't want to take it to the charities and dump it there.

1498
01:23:30,500 --> 01:23:31,500
 Right.

1499
01:23:31,500 --> 01:23:32,500
 Or a lot of them won't take them.

1500
01:23:32,500 --> 01:23:33,500
 Exactly.

1501
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:34,500
 Yeah.

1502
01:23:34,500 --> 01:23:35,500
 Exactly.

1503
01:23:35,500 --> 01:23:36,500
 And then the retail take-back programs.

1504
01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:41,740
 I mean, you know, it's been 20 years and you forgot, you know, the retail outlet may

1505
01:23:41,740 --> 01:23:43,620
 not even be available anymore.

1506
01:23:43,620 --> 01:23:46,860
 So then you're kind of stuck with, what do I do with this?

1507
01:23:46,860 --> 01:23:49,980
 Some of them will take it whether or not you bought another TV there or not.

1508
01:23:49,980 --> 01:23:50,980
 I will say this.

1509
01:23:50,980 --> 01:23:51,980
 Really?

1510
01:23:51,980 --> 01:23:52,980
 Yes.

1511
01:23:52,980 --> 01:23:53,980
 See, that's not well-known.

1512
01:23:53,980 --> 01:23:59,060
 Our current price point -- so Best Buy probably runs the biggest electronics recycling operation

1513
01:23:59,060 --> 01:24:00,580
 in our area.

1514
01:24:00,580 --> 01:24:05,060
 Our price point at $20 per collection is exactly the same as theirs, and they'll do the same

1515
01:24:05,060 --> 01:24:07,360
 thing as we do -- come out to your curb, pick it up.

1516
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:11,260
 In some cases, they'll actually give you a discount if you're buying another one to replace

1517
01:24:11,260 --> 01:24:12,260
 it.

1518
01:24:12,260 --> 01:24:16,820
 And so we do try to direct folks there, but it's not a one-size-fits-all, and maybe that's

1519
01:24:16,820 --> 01:24:20,200
 the case for a television, but they won't offer the same service for, say, a microwave

1520
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:22,700
 oven or something like that.

1521
01:24:22,700 --> 01:24:26,380
 So I think trying to find our place in that is really maybe the question.

1522
01:24:26,380 --> 01:24:31,700
 I mean, because ultimately you don't want to have, again, appliances dropped off in

1523
01:24:31,700 --> 01:24:36,820
 the middle of nowhere, you know, because they can't figure out what to do with it.

1524
01:24:36,820 --> 01:24:41,060
 One of the things we've kicked around internally -- so there's two different cost components

1525
01:24:41,060 --> 01:24:44,660
 to dealing with this, and I think Brian illustrated it with what he said -- there's the collection

1526
01:24:44,660 --> 01:24:48,820
 piece, which is really the convenience piece in a lot of cases, and then there's the actual

1527
01:24:48,820 --> 01:24:53,160
 handling and processing piece to recycle it or dispose of it.

1528
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,640
 We have fees for both.

1529
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:59,940
 So if we feel like for electronics versus appliances -- because, again, I think electronics

1530
01:24:59,940 --> 01:25:06,500
 are some cases easier to handle -- we could look at discounting our landfill rate for that,

1531
01:25:06,500 --> 01:25:12,140
 maybe even providing that service at no cost in order to recycle that, and then just look

1532
01:25:12,140 --> 01:25:14,580
 at discontinuing the collection side of things.

1533
01:25:14,580 --> 01:25:18,460
 But I think that's really what we'd be recommending, is when you look at the fee, we want to cost

1534
01:25:18,460 --> 01:25:20,740
 recover on us running that truck out there.

1535
01:25:20,740 --> 01:25:21,740
 Right.

1536
01:25:21,740 --> 01:25:22,740
 I totally get that.

1537
01:25:22,740 --> 01:25:23,740
 I totally understand that.

1538
01:25:23,740 --> 01:25:26,740
 I'm just -- like I said, then you've got that other problem of you don't want to see

1539
01:25:26,740 --> 01:25:31,980
 TVs, you know, start to come up on the prairie.

1540
01:25:31,980 --> 01:25:40,580
 I think the notes comment there, the promotion of donation centers and retail take-back programs,

1541
01:25:40,580 --> 01:25:47,580
 I think that that concept can be used in the solid waste, in the recycling area, quite

1542
01:25:47,580 --> 01:25:50,220
 a bit, and in this area quite a bit as well.

1543
01:25:50,220 --> 01:25:55,560
 I mean, almost every single household appliance the recycling centers will take here.

1544
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:59,620
 You might have to put it in your truck or ask somebody to take it, but they'll take

1545
01:25:59,620 --> 01:26:06,060
 a plastic dishwasher and they break it down and take the pieces off and turn it into something.

1546
01:26:06,060 --> 01:26:09,900
 You know, places like Fry's, they don't want electronics, but other places will actually

1547
01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:15,920
 take electronics, too, but it does take some research to do it, and perhaps if the city

1548
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:20,300
 had some kind of central place that, you know, that you could go to on the web and see, pow,

1549
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:24,180
 oh, I could take it here, take it here, you know, it might facilitate that, and then this

1550
01:26:24,180 --> 01:26:25,620
 wouldn't become an issue at all.

1551
01:26:25,620 --> 01:26:28,940
 We were actually talking about that today, looking at our website, is we need to be a

1552
01:26:28,940 --> 01:26:29,940
 better resource.

1553
01:26:29,940 --> 01:26:31,740
 It's not just our services.

1554
01:26:31,740 --> 01:26:33,900
 We need to be like Macy's and Miracle at 34th Street.

1555
01:26:33,900 --> 01:26:36,380
 We can get out of the street and do that here, too, and so.

1556
01:26:36,380 --> 01:26:41,140
 And you know, and as people see that you're -- sometimes when information is just coming

1557
01:26:41,140 --> 01:26:47,140
 from you guys, you know, well, sometimes it enhances the information if they're getting

1558
01:26:47,140 --> 01:26:50,820
 information from many different resources and they're getting the same answer, you know,

1559
01:26:50,820 --> 01:26:51,820
 so.

1560
01:26:51,820 --> 01:26:52,820
 Right.

1561
01:26:52,820 --> 01:26:53,820
 I'd agree with that.

1562
01:26:53,820 --> 01:26:54,820
 Yeah.

1563
01:26:54,820 --> 01:26:56,880
 I'm inclined to follow the COE's recommendations.

1564
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:58,300
 I like them.

1565
01:26:58,300 --> 01:27:01,500
 Can I go back to the -- but they didn't want to change yard waste.

1566
01:27:01,500 --> 01:27:02,500
 Is that correct?

1567
01:27:02,500 --> 01:27:03,500
 Did I understand that?

1568
01:27:03,500 --> 01:27:04,500
 No, that's correct.

1569
01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:05,500
 That's correct.

1570
01:27:05,500 --> 01:27:06,500
 They wanted to maintain the existing model.

1571
01:27:06,500 --> 01:27:10,580
 Yeah, and I would want to change the existing model, but I don't use yard waste.

1572
01:27:10,580 --> 01:27:14,660
 I have somebody who does that for me, and it's not my husband.

1573
01:27:14,660 --> 01:27:23,740
 So, Susan, you liked the idea of the cart with the food, also with the food waste.

1574
01:27:23,740 --> 01:27:24,740
 Yes.

1575
01:27:24,740 --> 01:27:25,740
 Yes.

1576
01:27:25,740 --> 01:27:26,740
 But I'm good with this, too.

1577
01:27:26,740 --> 01:27:28,780
 I think that's a direction we could probably go.

1578
01:27:28,780 --> 01:27:34,300
 Has anybody ever watched them pick up 20 leaf bags?

1579
01:27:34,300 --> 01:27:35,300
 It's pretty ridiculous.

1580
01:27:35,300 --> 01:27:39,300
 They open each one, they dump it in the thing, they bag up the bag.

1581
01:27:39,300 --> 01:27:41,880
 It's a ridiculous process and horribly inefficient.

1582
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:46,260
 So carts and bags is a great idea, but I don't really like the subscription fee.

1583
01:27:46,260 --> 01:27:51,580
 I kind of think it should be, hey, my cart's out there, there's something in it, you know.

1584
01:27:51,580 --> 01:27:57,220
 We have a lot of garden beds, so we eat almost daily, and so we've got stuff daily, almost.

1585
01:27:57,220 --> 01:28:01,140
 So you like the cart, but not the $1.

1586
01:28:01,140 --> 01:28:02,980
 Yeah, yeah, essentially.

1587
01:28:02,980 --> 01:28:06,300
 I just don't like changing it, because then you have to do something.

1588
01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:09,660
 Somebody has to do something, and then you have to educate them that they have to do

1589
01:28:09,660 --> 01:28:10,660
 that.

1590
01:28:10,660 --> 01:28:13,980
 That if they don't do that, they wonder why their collection isn't being made.

1591
01:28:13,980 --> 01:28:14,980
 Why did it get changed?

1592
01:28:14,980 --> 01:28:18,180
 They don't have all that stuff sitting out there in front of their house all the time.

1593
01:28:18,180 --> 01:28:23,220
 I've tried various things with the people that come by and clean up my, you know, waste,

1594
01:28:23,220 --> 01:28:28,820
 and I've found that if I leave the bag untied, they'll pour the waste in the back of the

1595
01:28:28,820 --> 01:28:32,860
 truck and put the bag back there right there on the ground.

1596
01:28:32,860 --> 01:28:36,140
 Now, if the bag's tied, they rip it open and take it.

1597
01:28:36,140 --> 01:28:40,420
 I've tried putting it in a trash can, and a couple of times they've taken it, and other

1598
01:28:40,420 --> 01:28:45,820
 times they just leave it there, you know, so, which would be kind of like a cart, so.

1599
01:28:45,820 --> 01:28:49,380
 So the customers would have to buy a cart.

1600
01:28:49,380 --> 01:28:50,380
 I'm experienced.

1601
01:28:50,380 --> 01:28:51,380
 Yeah, yeah, you're industrious.

1602
01:28:51,380 --> 01:28:52,380
 Yeah.

1603
01:28:52,380 --> 01:28:53,380
 You spend a lot of time on this.

1604
01:28:53,380 --> 01:28:57,940
 So the people would have to buy a cart up front.

1605
01:28:57,940 --> 01:28:59,220
 There's different approaches to that.

1606
01:28:59,220 --> 01:29:01,940
 I mean, the cart cost for us is about $40.

1607
01:29:01,940 --> 01:29:06,260
 I think it would be a very small capital, I wouldn't even call it a capital investment.

1608
01:29:06,260 --> 01:29:10,740
 I think whenever Fort Worth rolled this out, they didn't do the subscription fee.

1609
01:29:10,740 --> 01:29:14,980
 They basically said buy the cart, and then it's yours forever, and so there's different

1610
01:29:14,980 --> 01:29:17,360
 approaches that we could take to this.

1611
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:22,780
 Again, I think the biggest gain for us on the subscription fee is it's a pen and a map,

1612
01:29:22,780 --> 01:29:24,500
 and we know exactly where we're going.

1613
01:29:24,500 --> 01:29:26,860
 You don't have to go up and down every street looking for it.

1614
01:29:26,860 --> 01:29:27,860
 Exactly right.

1615
01:29:27,860 --> 01:29:32,180
 I guess my problem with that, as you mentioned earlier, that you had a shortage of this type

1616
01:29:32,180 --> 01:29:37,900
 of stuff, that we don't have enough solid matter to introduce into our bio waste to do

1617
01:29:37,900 --> 01:29:38,900
 this.

1618
01:29:38,900 --> 01:29:42,060
 So, and if you put obstacles, you're going to get less, you're not going to get more.

1619
01:29:42,060 --> 01:29:43,620
 I don't see it as an obstacle.

1620
01:29:43,620 --> 01:29:47,340
 I see it as wanting to improve it.

1621
01:29:47,340 --> 01:29:50,820
 Well, to subscribe is an obstacle of sorts.

1622
01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:51,820
 I got you there.

1623
01:29:51,820 --> 01:29:52,820
 Okay.

1624
01:29:52,820 --> 01:29:56,420
 And I think the COE made that point as well, is we want to make it easy for folks.

1625
01:29:56,420 --> 01:30:05,500
 And again, I think it depends on which policy objective carries the bigger weight for us.

1626
01:30:05,500 --> 01:30:08,420
 So direction?

1627
01:30:08,420 --> 01:30:09,740
 Follow COE?

1628
01:30:09,740 --> 01:30:14,780
 And just for, this was their recommendation here.

1629
01:30:14,780 --> 01:30:18,580
 Were they opposed to the cart, or they just didn't really touch on it?

1630
01:30:18,580 --> 01:30:20,380
 They just didn't want the subscription?

1631
01:30:20,380 --> 01:30:24,460
 We had two COE members there in probably the heaviest wooded areas of the city.

1632
01:30:24,460 --> 01:30:28,500
 And so I think, you know, the cart is significant.

1633
01:30:28,500 --> 01:30:33,100
 And so I think some of the concerns that they had is the cart is not going to be enough.

1634
01:30:33,100 --> 01:30:36,780
 And I'm going to fill up a lot of those crap bags.

1635
01:30:36,780 --> 01:30:41,860
 And I think, you know, it's, I think the thing that we had said to that is we appreciate

1636
01:30:41,860 --> 01:30:42,860
 that.

1637
01:30:42,860 --> 01:30:46,580
 We also have to look at the citizens in town that have a smaller lot.

1638
01:30:46,580 --> 01:30:48,940
 It's small trees, they're not using the brush.

1639
01:30:48,940 --> 01:30:52,740
 And I think that's really the question that we have here is, you know, we can, we certainly

1640
01:30:52,740 --> 01:30:55,100
 want to support the program whichever way we do.

1641
01:30:55,100 --> 01:30:59,220
 Is there a way to make it more equitable for every resident that we have in the system?

1642
01:30:59,220 --> 01:31:00,220
 Yeah.

1643
01:31:00,220 --> 01:31:01,220
 But ultimately, this is where they landed.

1644
01:31:01,220 --> 01:31:05,220
 I have one more thing just before we wrap this up.

1645
01:31:05,220 --> 01:31:06,220
 Go ahead.

1646
01:31:06,220 --> 01:31:11,300
 So on your next steps, you mentioned revising the solid waste ordinance.

1647
01:31:11,300 --> 01:31:12,300
 Yes.

1648
01:31:12,300 --> 01:31:20,500
 And in that ordinance, regarding trash collection and solid waste or and recycling, there are,

1649
01:31:20,500 --> 01:31:26,980
 there's some pretty specific things about not putting non recyclables into the recycle

1650
01:31:26,980 --> 01:31:27,980
 bin.

1651
01:31:27,980 --> 01:31:32,100
 There doesn't seem to be anything about putting recyclables into the trash.

1652
01:31:32,100 --> 01:31:35,420
 And I know some people might be going, well, why would we want to do that?

1653
01:31:35,420 --> 01:31:36,420
 That seems like oppressive.

1654
01:31:36,420 --> 01:31:43,460
 But are there municipalities that say, hey, you've got to recycle, and it's the law?

1655
01:31:43,460 --> 01:31:44,460
 There are.

1656
01:31:44,460 --> 01:31:48,380
 And I'm not sure how many you see in Texas, but that's very prevalent in California and

1657
01:31:48,380 --> 01:31:53,340
 some states like that, where they'll actually go out and cite you if they find a recyclable

1658
01:31:53,340 --> 01:31:54,340
 in the wrong bin.

1659
01:31:54,340 --> 01:31:56,460
 And so there is precedent for that.

1660
01:31:56,460 --> 01:31:57,460
 We started out doing it that way.

1661
01:31:57,460 --> 01:31:58,460
 There wasn't one that didn't start recycling.

1662
01:31:58,460 --> 01:31:59,460
 It was a big deal.

1663
01:31:59,460 --> 01:32:09,180
 I got written up, but it started out doing it that way.

1664
01:32:09,180 --> 01:32:10,180
 You got red tag, did you?

1665
01:32:10,180 --> 01:32:15,500
 I think it would cost more to enforce than it did to just, I'll just take it.

1666
01:32:15,500 --> 01:32:22,700
 In those revisions, do you foresee us doing anything along those lines, making it stricter?

1667
01:32:22,700 --> 01:32:26,820
 I think for staff's perspective, we want to bring the ordinance up to date, number one,

1668
01:32:26,820 --> 01:32:30,340
 and then we'll bring it to the PB and the council for policy direction.

1669
01:32:30,340 --> 01:32:34,700
 We don't presume to have the answers on what we want to set as policy, but we can certainly

1670
01:32:34,700 --> 01:32:35,700
 look.

1671
01:32:35,700 --> 01:32:36,700
 Here are some options that you might consider.

1672
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:41,020
 I know mandatory commercial recycling is something we've heard a lot about, and so that's an

1673
01:32:41,020 --> 01:32:44,820
 option that we want to put in there, kind of benchmark with some cities to see how they're

1674
01:32:44,820 --> 01:32:48,060
 handling those types of programs, if that's the direction we want to go.

1675
01:32:48,060 --> 01:32:51,740
 This would probably follow kind of that direction as well, is here's two or three options that

1676
01:32:51,740 --> 01:32:52,900
 you can consider.

1677
01:32:52,900 --> 01:32:57,060
 I will say that certainly from a recycling contamination standpoint, that's going to

1678
01:32:57,060 --> 01:33:01,380
 be a key point of emphasis for us, kind of trying to tighten that up and see if we're

1679
01:33:01,380 --> 01:33:05,620
 making good progress or not, but we can certainly take that the other direction too.

1680
01:33:05,620 --> 01:33:06,620
 Okay.

1681
01:33:06,620 --> 01:33:12,620
 I wouldn't want to see us do away with our recycling program, though, or--

1682
01:33:12,620 --> 01:33:13,620
 Absolutely not.

1683
01:33:13,620 --> 01:33:14,620
 Oh, absolutely not.

1684
01:33:14,620 --> 01:33:15,620
 It may get worse than what it is.

1685
01:33:15,620 --> 01:33:16,620
 Yeah.

1686
01:33:16,620 --> 01:33:17,620
 I mean, not that it's worse right now, but--

1687
01:33:17,620 --> 01:33:18,620
 We'll get to that in a minute.

1688
01:33:18,620 --> 01:33:19,620
 So--

1689
01:33:19,620 --> 01:33:20,620
 Yeah.

1690
01:33:20,620 --> 01:33:21,620
 Yeah.

1691
01:33:21,620 --> 01:33:23,620
 So what I've heard--

1692
01:33:23,620 --> 01:33:27,780
 So the consensus, why didn't you say what you heard?

1693
01:33:27,780 --> 01:33:28,780
 Thank you.

1694
01:33:28,780 --> 01:33:32,740
 So what I've heard, at least from Mr. Carroll, is we go with the Committee on the Environment

1695
01:33:32,740 --> 01:33:38,340
 recommendations, are there any deviations from what they're recommending here that we'd

1696
01:33:38,340 --> 01:33:43,020
 get some consensus on?

1697
01:33:43,020 --> 01:33:51,820
 I like the idea of a cart, only because it also facilitates what you call the pre-consumer--

1698
01:33:51,820 --> 01:33:52,820
 Vegetative.

1699
01:33:52,820 --> 01:33:53,820
 Vegetative waste.

1700
01:33:53,820 --> 01:33:54,820
 Food waste.

1701
01:33:54,820 --> 01:33:55,820
 Yeah.

1702
01:33:55,820 --> 01:33:59,340
 I've already bought it, so it's not pre-consumer, in my opinion, so I guess it's pre-consumption.

1703
01:33:59,340 --> 01:34:00,340
 Consumption.

1704
01:34:00,340 --> 01:34:01,340
 I'll change that.

1705
01:34:01,340 --> 01:34:02,340
 Thank you.

1706
01:34:02,340 --> 01:34:07,340
 The thing that kind of bothers me, though, is that you were talking about how there would

1707
01:34:07,340 --> 01:34:13,300
 be some citizens who don't have much in the-- they don't trees, they don't have a garden,

1708
01:34:13,300 --> 01:34:18,300
 they don't have, you know, much of a lot line at all, and that they're paying for, you know,

1709
01:34:18,300 --> 01:34:19,300
 those of us who do--

1710
01:34:19,300 --> 01:34:20,300
 You need to get closer to your mic.

1711
01:34:20,300 --> 01:34:22,740
 --and that they're paying for those of us who do, but at the same time--

1712
01:34:22,740 --> 01:34:23,740
 Is it on?

1713
01:34:23,740 --> 01:34:24,740
 Okay.

1714
01:34:24,740 --> 01:34:25,740
 All right.

1715
01:34:25,740 --> 01:34:33,260
 The thing that bothers me or that worries me is that, you know, the people who have

1716
01:34:33,260 --> 01:34:38,000
 trees and who have gardens and whatnot, that that's-- ultimately, that's a good thing for

1717
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:39,000
 our community.

1718
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:40,000
 Absolutely.

1719
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,000
 Yeah.

1720
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:45,020
 And so we don't want to discourage people from, you know, cutting down their trees because

1721
01:34:45,020 --> 01:34:50,220
 they don't want to have to pay for the waste that comes from having a tree in your backyard.

1722
01:34:50,220 --> 01:34:51,780
 Right.

1723
01:34:51,780 --> 01:34:58,540
 That's the thing that worries me about only having people who use the yard waste because

1724
01:34:58,540 --> 01:35:06,860
 then I just feel like that increases the cost for the people who do have trees and whatnot.

1725
01:35:06,860 --> 01:35:10,220
 But the brush is going to be separate from the yard waste, is that--

1726
01:35:10,220 --> 01:35:11,220
 That's correct.

1727
01:35:11,220 --> 01:35:12,220
 --correct?

1728
01:35:12,220 --> 01:35:14,440
 The yard waste is grass clippings, basically.

1729
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:15,440
 And leaves occasionally.

1730
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:16,440
 And leaves.

1731
01:35:16,440 --> 01:35:17,440
 And leaves.

1732
01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:18,440
 Oh, and leaves.

1733
01:35:18,440 --> 01:35:19,440
 Yeah.

1734
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:20,440
 They blow away.

1735
01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:21,440
 This is Texas.

1736
01:35:21,440 --> 01:35:22,440
 Not in my yard.

1737
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:24,020
 I mean, I have like a bajillion bags of trees.

1738
01:35:24,020 --> 01:35:25,020
 Sorry.

1739
01:35:25,020 --> 01:35:26,020
 Okay.

1740
01:35:26,020 --> 01:35:27,020
 My yard.

1741
01:35:27,020 --> 01:35:33,940
 And I live in a very, you know, yeah, there's a lot of trees in our neighborhood.

1742
01:35:33,940 --> 01:35:42,020
 Are you distinguishing the brush that ends up going into the same yard waste truck than

1743
01:35:42,020 --> 01:35:45,300
 brush that gets picked up by the claw truck?

1744
01:35:45,300 --> 01:35:46,300
 Yeah.

1745
01:35:46,300 --> 01:35:52,500
 So I think typically for brush, whenever we dispatch, we will typically, right now, we'll

1746
01:35:52,500 --> 01:35:56,820
 need to take a look at this, is anything that's under four foot and less than 50 pounds, we

1747
01:35:56,820 --> 01:35:58,260
 can collect by hand.

1748
01:35:58,260 --> 01:36:02,380
 If it's more than that, that's when we would dispatch the claw truck to come collect it.

1749
01:36:02,380 --> 01:36:03,380
 Okay.

1750
01:36:03,380 --> 01:36:05,540
 But that's all still called brush?

1751
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:09,420
 Right now, some of it may go into the yard waste truck.

1752
01:36:09,420 --> 01:36:10,420
 It's not real.

1753
01:36:10,420 --> 01:36:16,580
 Whenever we look at these volumes up here, it's all basically into one pot, one pool.

1754
01:36:16,580 --> 01:36:18,580
 So that's brush and yard waste.

1755
01:36:18,580 --> 01:36:19,580
 Okay.

1756
01:36:19,580 --> 01:36:20,580
 All right.

1757
01:36:20,580 --> 01:36:21,580
 Thank you.

1758
01:36:21,580 --> 01:36:22,580
 I'm sorry.

1759
01:36:22,580 --> 01:36:23,580
 Just one more question.

1760
01:36:23,580 --> 01:36:26,580
 And what was Blue Ridge's recommendation on the yard waste?

1761
01:36:26,580 --> 01:36:30,180
 Usually their findings were that it was highly inefficient, less than safe.

1762
01:36:30,180 --> 01:36:36,380
 Their recommendation was move to carts, move brush to schedule services.

1763
01:36:36,380 --> 01:36:42,060
 I do think going strictly to carts is going to be problematic because of the volume limits,

1764
01:36:42,060 --> 01:36:43,060
 certainly.

1765
01:36:43,060 --> 01:36:45,340
 One of the things I will say is these things don't have to go together.

1766
01:36:45,340 --> 01:36:50,060
 We can introduce carts without changing how we run the collection of yard waste.

1767
01:36:50,060 --> 01:36:51,860
 Could you make that an opt-in?

1768
01:36:51,860 --> 01:36:56,460
 Not that they have to pay one, but they ask requests for a cart because someone liked it?

1769
01:36:56,460 --> 01:37:00,620
 I really think you're going to get people in on the vegetative food waste.

1770
01:37:00,620 --> 01:37:01,620
 Oh, yeah.

1771
01:37:01,620 --> 01:37:07,540
 And then that's going to increase your, maybe not hugely, the volume that you're getting.

1772
01:37:07,540 --> 01:37:11,380
 And then that actually might be something that supports the idea of the subscription

1773
01:37:11,380 --> 01:37:12,380
 fee.

1774
01:37:12,380 --> 01:37:15,860
 Because then if you know they have that type of waste, you actually want to come and collect

1775
01:37:15,860 --> 01:37:16,860
 it frequently.

1776
01:37:16,860 --> 01:37:19,060
 You don't want it to get all funky.

1777
01:37:19,060 --> 01:37:27,180
 In my last place where I lived, all my vegetative food waste got composted.

1778
01:37:27,180 --> 01:37:35,580
 So would it be possible to turn this into sort of a two-year plan and think about introducing

1779
01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:38,500
 the carts and the subscription next year?

1780
01:37:38,500 --> 01:37:44,540
 I mean, right now, I'm not sure that Denton is ready for carts and subscriptions.

1781
01:37:44,540 --> 01:37:45,540
 No.

1782
01:37:45,540 --> 01:37:46,540
 I think you're right.

1783
01:37:46,540 --> 01:37:53,100
 And it might need to-- you might need to plow the street a little bit first with some education

1784
01:37:53,100 --> 01:37:54,100
 or something.

1785
01:37:54,100 --> 01:37:56,580
 Can we put a little bit of food waste in the plastic bag?

1786
01:37:56,580 --> 01:37:57,580
 We prefer not.

1787
01:37:57,580 --> 01:38:00,580
 They're kind of going right now.

1788
01:38:00,580 --> 01:38:02,940
 They're not ready for this.

1789
01:38:02,940 --> 01:38:07,820
 I mean, maybe set that up, tee that up for next year.

1790
01:38:07,820 --> 01:38:09,060
 That's a good idea.

1791
01:38:09,060 --> 01:38:10,060
 With some education.

1792
01:38:10,060 --> 01:38:11,060
 Yeah.

1793
01:38:11,060 --> 01:38:12,060
 Yeah.

1794
01:38:12,060 --> 01:38:13,060
 Now.

1795
01:38:13,060 --> 01:38:14,060
 I think there needs to be some education on that.

1796
01:38:14,060 --> 01:38:15,060
 Okay.

1797
01:38:15,060 --> 01:38:16,060
 All right.

1798
01:38:16,060 --> 01:38:22,420
 I mean, right now, I just-- I compost my own pre-consumer vegetative food waste, you know.

1799
01:38:22,420 --> 01:38:25,740
 So it would be-- it would be an adjustment for quite a few people.

1800
01:38:25,740 --> 01:38:26,740
 Sure.

1801
01:38:26,740 --> 01:38:27,740
 I did that too.

1802
01:38:27,740 --> 01:38:30,740
 I'm not allowed anymore in my neighborhood.

1803
01:38:30,740 --> 01:38:31,740
 Oh.

1804
01:38:31,740 --> 01:38:36,620
 Well, I think I've got enough input that I can put together a slide for tomorrow.

1805
01:38:36,620 --> 01:38:39,620
 We knew this was going to be a shotgun approach.

1806
01:38:39,620 --> 01:38:43,620
 So I think it gives us enough direction that we can put another slide together.

1807
01:38:43,620 --> 01:38:47,180
 Hopefully the gist of it is going to be follow these recommendations with the thought that

1808
01:38:47,180 --> 01:38:52,380
 we could introduce the carts alone as kind of an opt-in, not the subscription fee, and

1809
01:38:52,380 --> 01:38:55,380
 then we circle back next year and see what the temperature is.

1810
01:38:55,380 --> 01:38:58,380
 Any other thoughts on the rest of these?

1811
01:38:58,380 --> 01:39:00,420
 All right.

1812
01:39:00,420 --> 01:39:01,420
 Thank you very much.

1813
01:39:01,420 --> 01:39:02,420
 Thank you.

1814
01:39:02,420 --> 01:39:04,780
 Now, the next item, I think, is going to take a bit.

1815
01:39:04,780 --> 01:39:09,260
 So why don't we take a five-minute environmental break?

1816
01:39:09,260 --> 01:39:15,660
 Okay, it's about 747 and we're back.

1817
01:39:15,660 --> 01:39:21,700
 This item is receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the solid

1818
01:39:21,700 --> 01:39:23,660
 waste department's recycling program.

1819
01:39:23,660 --> 01:39:25,220
 Well, good evening again.

1820
01:39:25,220 --> 01:39:26,220
 My name is Ethan Cox.

1821
01:39:26,220 --> 01:39:28,300
 I'm the director of public works for the city.

1822
01:39:28,300 --> 01:39:33,220
 So this evening we have an update on our recycling program for the public utilities board.

1823
01:39:33,220 --> 01:39:36,940
 You'll recall we came back before the board, I think it was January, February time frame

1824
01:39:36,940 --> 01:39:39,980
 and just kind of did a full-on business case analysis.

1825
01:39:39,980 --> 01:39:45,620
 Well, since that time we've gotten some less than ideal news on where we are with the market

1826
01:39:45,620 --> 01:39:47,860
 and how it's impacting our program.

1827
01:39:47,860 --> 01:39:51,300
 There was an informal staff report that was sent to city council on May the 10th.

1828
01:39:51,300 --> 01:39:54,020
 It was also circulated via the newspaper.

1829
01:39:54,020 --> 01:39:56,020
 I'm not sure if we've shared that with the PV yet.

1830
01:39:56,020 --> 01:39:59,500
 If not, we will certainly get that out to you as part of an ACM update.

1831
01:39:59,500 --> 01:40:03,860
 But I am going to give you the gist of that report and kind of what it was and how we

1832
01:40:03,860 --> 01:40:06,180
 got here and then what our next steps are.

1833
01:40:06,180 --> 01:40:12,420
 So to kind of cut to the chase, on March 26th staff learned that Pratt Industries, our materials

1834
01:40:12,420 --> 01:40:18,300
 recycling facility, our on-site MRF, was land filling essentially glass and plastics three

1835
01:40:18,300 --> 01:40:19,740
 through seven.

1836
01:40:19,740 --> 01:40:24,140
 The reason why this happened is the buyers that were participating, there's very few

1837
01:40:24,140 --> 01:40:28,620
 in the region for those two particular types of materials, they had enacted some quality

1838
01:40:28,620 --> 01:40:32,300
 standards and started refusing loads.

1839
01:40:32,300 --> 01:40:35,020
 Needless to say, we were just concerned about this.

1840
01:40:35,020 --> 01:40:38,420
 We went through and initiated a contract review.

1841
01:40:38,420 --> 01:40:42,540
 That took a better part of about 30 days and ultimately what we found is we felt like aside

1842
01:40:42,540 --> 01:40:47,460
 from the lack of notification, Pratt Industries was acting in accordance with the contract.

1843
01:40:47,460 --> 01:40:52,300
 I'll get to kind of the contract provisions that allow that in just a moment.

1844
01:40:52,300 --> 01:40:58,340
 Real quickly in terms of the rest of the timeline, April 24th, while we were doing the contract

1845
01:40:58,340 --> 01:41:02,300
 review, Pratt was able to locate a buyer for plastics three through seven.

1846
01:41:02,300 --> 01:41:06,220
 I'll give an example of what those types of plastics are in just a moment.

1847
01:41:06,220 --> 01:41:12,260
 They resumed shipments to that recycler and those have continued from that date to now.

1848
01:41:12,260 --> 01:41:17,740
 On April 29th, we issued a written request for notification to Pratt, also asked for

1849
01:41:17,740 --> 01:41:21,460
 some commitments from them in terms of improved communication.

1850
01:41:21,460 --> 01:41:24,500
 Really we feel like the biggest breakdown here was we weren't allowed to get out in

1851
01:41:24,500 --> 01:41:28,980
 front of the message, inform this board, inform the council, inform our citizens that this

1852
01:41:28,980 --> 01:41:32,580
 was happening and what they needed to know about it.

1853
01:41:32,580 --> 01:41:36,860
 Pratt responded with the written request as well as some commitments to improve communication

1854
01:41:36,860 --> 01:41:41,940
 as well as updates on those various materials and then on the 14th, which was last week,

1855
01:41:41,940 --> 01:41:46,260
 Pratt received a verbal commitment from a glass recycler in Houston to start accepting

1856
01:41:46,260 --> 01:41:47,260
 loads.

1857
01:41:47,260 --> 01:41:48,260
 First load went today.

1858
01:41:48,260 --> 01:41:53,420
 They've got two additional loads going out this week and so it does look like unfortunately

1859
01:41:53,420 --> 01:41:56,940
 this happened but it does look like we're starting to get that stuff back in the commodities

1860
01:41:56,940 --> 01:41:57,940
 market.

1861
01:41:57,940 --> 01:42:02,860
 In terms of the agreement that we have with Pratt Industries, it's both a land lease

1862
01:42:02,860 --> 01:42:04,780
 as well as a processing agreement.

1863
01:42:04,780 --> 01:42:07,660
 We were locked into that agreement until 2027.

1864
01:42:07,660 --> 01:42:12,220
 We do have some options for renewal but I would expect those to come with some renegotiation

1865
01:42:12,220 --> 01:42:13,220
 of the terms.

1866
01:42:13,220 --> 01:42:18,700
 It would be basically Pratt's decision and our decision as to whether to renew.

1867
01:42:18,700 --> 01:42:20,580
 The program materials are outlined here.

1868
01:42:20,580 --> 01:42:25,340
 Again, the ones we're talking about are plastics three through seven and glass.

1869
01:42:25,340 --> 01:42:29,300
 The few sections of contract that we felt like were key to this discussion, number one

1870
01:42:29,300 --> 01:42:32,100
 is ownership of the materials.

1871
01:42:32,100 --> 01:42:36,860
 Understand that within the contract, Pratt has, basically we have the obligation to deliver

1872
01:42:36,860 --> 01:42:41,340
 every recyclable we collect via our collection program to Pratt.

1873
01:42:41,340 --> 01:42:44,920
 Once we deliver that to the facility, they pay us for the material and ownership immediately

1874
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:48,060
 transfers to Pratt Industries.

1875
01:42:48,060 --> 01:42:52,420
 Pratt is solely responsible for the marketing and sale of that material.

1876
01:42:52,420 --> 01:42:58,260
 They have accepted some of our requests and recommendations from time to time but ultimately

1877
01:42:58,260 --> 01:43:01,420
 it's their responsibility to move the material.

1878
01:43:01,420 --> 01:43:06,780
 Additionally, in addition to paying for the materials up front, if there's disposal required

1879
01:43:06,780 --> 01:43:09,860
 for any of the materials that are unable to sell, they also pay us the landfill tipping

1880
01:43:09,860 --> 01:43:12,980
 fee for the disposal of those materials.

1881
01:43:12,980 --> 01:43:17,300
 So ultimately when we did our review of the contract, we felt like these sections really

1882
01:43:17,300 --> 01:43:21,700
 provide for them to do exactly what was happening.

1883
01:43:21,700 --> 01:43:25,900
 In terms of impact on the landfill operation, that was one of the things that we also kind

1884
01:43:25,900 --> 01:43:31,580
 of took a look at and say, okay, well, what's happening because of this decision?

1885
01:43:31,580 --> 01:43:33,720
 So a few things that I've put up here on this slide.

1886
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:36,260
 Number one is a regional waste composition.

1887
01:43:36,260 --> 01:43:40,080
 The source of this is the North Central Texas Council of Governments.

1888
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:43,100
 This is a standard household's generation of waste.

1889
01:43:43,100 --> 01:43:45,780
 This includes both waste and recyclables.

1890
01:43:45,780 --> 01:43:50,760
 So glass accounts for about 7% of our waste composition.

1891
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:56,420
 Plastic is about 16%, but keep in mind, 3 through 7 is a subset of plastics.

1892
01:43:56,420 --> 01:43:59,780
 We use this information as well as what we knew about what we were shipping out of the

1893
01:43:59,780 --> 01:44:01,340
 Pratt facility.

1894
01:44:01,340 --> 01:44:06,300
 And our estimates are that glass accounts for about 50 to 100 tons of what we recycle

1895
01:44:06,300 --> 01:44:07,460
 each month.

1896
01:44:07,460 --> 01:44:11,680
 That's much less than 7%, but not everybody recycles the way they should.

1897
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:14,740
 And then plastics 3 through 7 is about 10 to 20 tons per month.

1898
01:44:14,740 --> 01:44:21,180
 So all told, the impact is about 120 tons per month, to put that into perspective, the

1899
01:44:21,180 --> 01:44:27,340
 landfill handles just under 24,000 tons of materials on a monthly basis.

1900
01:44:27,340 --> 01:44:31,980
 One of the other things that we looked at is, okay, well, have we seen an uptick in

1901
01:44:31,980 --> 01:44:34,460
 stuff being disposed at the landfill from Pratt Industries?

1902
01:44:34,460 --> 01:44:35,820
 Why did we not catch this before?

1903
01:44:35,820 --> 01:44:40,660
 Well, the reason why is we haven't seen an uptick in waste disposed from them.

1904
01:44:40,660 --> 01:44:44,560
 What Pratt Industries has done in reaction to the market turbulence that we're seeing

1905
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:49,220
 with recycling, they've started reducing the amount of materials they accept coming into

1906
01:44:49,220 --> 01:44:50,620
 their facility.

1907
01:44:50,620 --> 01:44:54,460
 They are a regional facility, they don't just accept our recyclables, they accept it from

1908
01:44:54,460 --> 01:44:56,900
 a number of surrounding communities.

1909
01:44:56,900 --> 01:45:02,180
 So over the last 12 to 18 months, they've stopped accepting materials from a lot of other

1910
01:45:02,180 --> 01:45:03,180
 single stream recyclers.

1911
01:45:03,180 --> 01:45:07,780
 When I say single stream, that's everything's commingled in a blue bin.

1912
01:45:07,780 --> 01:45:10,780
 We're pretty much it in terms of what they accept on a single stream.

1913
01:45:10,780 --> 01:45:17,380
 Right now, they do continue to accept some source separated cardboard from a few communities.

1914
01:45:17,380 --> 01:45:22,060
 So what you've seen is their volumes have gone down on the front door, but what's coming

1915
01:45:22,060 --> 01:45:26,380
 out the back door for waste has remained relatively static, so we really haven't seen an impact

1916
01:45:26,380 --> 01:45:31,280
 on the landfill in terms of volume.

1917
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:34,980
 I gave this flowchart back in January, February timeline.

1918
01:45:34,980 --> 01:45:38,940
 I think it's important to revisit it, though, because it shows you exactly how this came

1919
01:45:38,940 --> 01:45:40,100
 about.

1920
01:45:40,100 --> 01:45:43,320
 So going from left to right, these are our collection operations over here.

1921
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:47,220
 So after you put something in the blue bin, this is where the process flow kicks in.

1922
01:45:47,220 --> 01:45:52,420
 Once we collect that stuff, we take it to Pratt Industries, where they sort and transport

1923
01:45:52,420 --> 01:45:55,320
 that to the next leg in the processing chain.

1924
01:45:55,320 --> 01:46:00,100
 For cardboard and paper, like we mentioned back then, Pratt owns their own paper mill.

1925
01:46:00,100 --> 01:46:03,540
 So one of the things we're relatively assured of is if we're giving them clean paper and

1926
01:46:03,540 --> 01:46:07,060
 cardboard, it's going to get recycled.

1927
01:46:07,060 --> 01:46:10,500
 Those are kind of exposed to the market if they don't own their own paper mills.

1928
01:46:10,500 --> 01:46:14,820
 For plastics, glass, and metals, they do have to partner with third-party recyclers, and

1929
01:46:14,820 --> 01:46:17,420
 that's really where the breakdown occurred here.

1930
01:46:17,420 --> 01:46:22,300
 The commodities markets here, when you really think about recycling, who purchases commodities

1931
01:46:22,300 --> 01:46:23,300
 on the market?

1932
01:46:23,300 --> 01:46:24,300
 Well, it's manufacturing.

1933
01:46:24,300 --> 01:46:31,260
 So as China pulled out of the commodities market, there's a lot more supply in the system,

1934
01:46:31,260 --> 01:46:33,060
 but the demand hasn't really gone up.

1935
01:46:33,060 --> 01:46:36,140
 Manufacturers aren't saying, "Well, I need all that stuff that was going to China."

1936
01:46:36,140 --> 01:46:40,300
 And so what's happened is quality controls have gotten much tighter to control the supply

1937
01:46:40,300 --> 01:46:42,700
 coming into the commodities market.

1938
01:46:42,700 --> 01:46:46,900
 As a result, a lot of third-party recyclers here are trying to reduce the amount of stuff

1939
01:46:46,900 --> 01:46:48,540
 coming in their doors.

1940
01:46:48,540 --> 01:46:51,820
 They implement quality restrictions just like China did.

1941
01:46:51,820 --> 01:46:55,620
 In the case of glass, it was, "If you have a certain amount of contamination, we don't

1942
01:46:55,620 --> 01:46:59,660
 want to receive your product anymore," which was a challenge for Pratt because...

1943
01:46:59,660 --> 01:47:01,300
 What is contamination of glass?

1944
01:47:01,300 --> 01:47:02,300
 Food particles?

1945
01:47:02,300 --> 01:47:04,200
 It can be food particles.

1946
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:10,220
 It can also be, so glass basically is broken down into small pieces called cullet.

1947
01:47:10,220 --> 01:47:14,500
 Our facility produces 2-inch cullets, has for years and years and years been perfectly

1948
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:17,500
 acceptable by the processors.

1949
01:47:17,500 --> 01:47:22,500
 What they found in ours wasn't just the food particles, it was shredded paper.

1950
01:47:22,500 --> 01:47:24,460
 There's a high incidence of shredded paper in here.

1951
01:47:24,460 --> 01:47:29,060
 We don't want to pay to sort it or clean it, and so that was one of the things that became

1952
01:47:29,060 --> 01:47:30,060
 unacceptable.

1953
01:47:30,060 --> 01:47:34,900
 Again, our process, Pratt's process, didn't change, the quality standard changed.

1954
01:47:34,900 --> 01:47:39,820
 I'm sorry, you probably were going to get there, I don't want to jump ahead of you anymore.

1955
01:47:39,820 --> 01:47:42,820
 So again, this is where the breakdown happened.

1956
01:47:42,820 --> 01:47:47,660
 What we've done, or what Pratt's done, is they've partied with a new glass recycler

1957
01:47:47,660 --> 01:47:48,660
 out of Houston.

1958
01:47:48,660 --> 01:47:52,020
 This is an option that wouldn't have been there for us a year ago.

1959
01:47:52,020 --> 01:47:56,260
 Strategic Materials is really the biggest glass processor in the United States.

1960
01:47:56,260 --> 01:48:00,540
 They're located in Midlothian, been our partner for a number of years, and they're the ones

1961
01:48:00,540 --> 01:48:04,100
 that basically said we can't accept it anymore.

1962
01:48:04,100 --> 01:48:10,980
 A couple of things, just kind of nuanced differences about what makes these so challenging to recycle.

1963
01:48:10,980 --> 01:48:14,300
 So plastics 3 through 7, these are all sold in mixed bales.

1964
01:48:14,300 --> 01:48:18,500
 So plastics 1 and 2 are typically your water bottles, plastics like this.

1965
01:48:18,500 --> 01:48:22,400
 The market for those is fairly stable, doesn't pay a great deal, but there's steady supply

1966
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:24,860
 and demand domestically for this.

1967
01:48:24,860 --> 01:48:28,060
 Plastics 3 through 7 are the stuff that it's more of a niche market.

1968
01:48:28,060 --> 01:48:29,940
 So you have fewer buyers.

1969
01:48:29,940 --> 01:48:33,600
 These are sold in mixed bales, and whenever these bales are bought, there's not a guarantee

1970
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:35,620
 that all of this is going to get recycled.

1971
01:48:35,620 --> 01:48:39,740
 A lot of these recyclers are picking and choosing the material in there that they need.

1972
01:48:39,740 --> 01:48:45,180
 So aside from 1 and 2s, which is down here kind of in this graphic, number 5s are typically

1973
01:48:45,180 --> 01:48:47,420
 what you are seeing in other programs.

1974
01:48:47,420 --> 01:48:53,580
 As programs change, the market dynamics you're seeing, a lot of programs drop 3, 4, 6, and

1975
01:48:53,580 --> 01:48:54,580
 7.

1976
01:48:54,580 --> 01:48:58,340
 When it comes to buyers on the plastics, what that indicates is the type of polymer that's

1977
01:48:58,340 --> 01:49:02,480
 in that material, which is basically a flag to the manufacturer, is if I'm going to make

1978
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:07,380
 a plastic, number 1, I need a certain type of polymer out of that recyclable.

1979
01:49:07,380 --> 01:49:12,700
 Some of the ones that are more difficult, it's more about not just the supply and demand,

1980
01:49:12,700 --> 01:49:14,100
 it's about the material itself.

1981
01:49:14,100 --> 01:49:18,580
 If it's rigid, if it's brittle, it doesn't handle well when it goes through the process,

1982
01:49:18,580 --> 01:49:22,380
 and that's one of the reasons why that's a little bit difficult.

1983
01:49:22,380 --> 01:49:26,300
 There's two buyers in this market here, only one of which is interested in doing business

1984
01:49:26,300 --> 01:49:32,460
 with new suppliers, that's who Pratt secured the agreement with and started moving materials.

1985
01:49:32,460 --> 01:49:38,300
 One thing real quick on this is we're doing multiple sorts, not we, Pratt is doing multiple

1986
01:49:38,300 --> 01:49:40,100
 sorts on this for that supplier.

1987
01:49:40,100 --> 01:49:44,300
 So we ship them a bail on this, they're giving us feedback, we have to re-sort it, Pratt has

1988
01:49:44,300 --> 01:49:48,100
 to re-sort it multiple times to meet their spec, but that's kind of the process that's

1989
01:49:48,100 --> 01:49:49,820
 going through right now.

1990
01:49:49,820 --> 01:49:56,140
 In terms of glass, we talked about cullet, so again, there's a few regional buyers.

1991
01:49:56,140 --> 01:50:01,220
 I'll show you the price that it pays to, or the price you have to pay to recycle glass

1992
01:50:01,220 --> 01:50:02,220
 now.

1993
01:50:02,220 --> 01:50:05,220
 The economics is really a big deterrent to this.

1994
01:50:05,220 --> 01:50:12,100
 Glass, in terms of the process to recycle those, it's a little bit more labor intensive,

1995
01:50:12,100 --> 01:50:14,100
 requires two different sorts.

1996
01:50:14,100 --> 01:50:19,080
 So in a single stream recycling program like ours, the first sort is to separate the glass

1997
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:22,260
 from the other recyclables, the contamination.

1998
01:50:22,260 --> 01:50:27,420
 Once it's received at a facility like Strategic Materials, it goes through a second sort where

1999
01:50:27,420 --> 01:50:31,860
 all these little fine cullets get separated by color.

2000
01:50:31,860 --> 01:50:33,580
 They do that using optical sorters.

2001
01:50:33,580 --> 01:50:38,620
 The process is somewhat automated, but it can be costly if there's a lot of contamination

2002
01:50:38,620 --> 01:50:39,620
 in there.

2003
01:50:39,620 --> 01:50:45,380
 And so that's where you're seeing those quality standards come in.

2004
01:50:45,380 --> 01:50:50,060
 In terms of current status, like we said in the program, we do have a buyer in Louisiana

2005
01:50:50,060 --> 01:50:55,860
 for Plastics 337, and we also have that verbal commitment looking like we'll have a solution

2006
01:50:55,860 --> 01:50:58,300
 there in Houston as well.

2007
01:50:58,300 --> 01:51:02,960
 In terms of outlook on those, I think it's anybody's guess.

2008
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,860
 This is something that we want to pay close attention to.

2009
01:51:05,860 --> 01:51:07,380
 These are two volatile markets.

2010
01:51:07,380 --> 01:51:13,460
 I was talking to someone earlier today is glass, depending on where you are and the

2011
01:51:13,460 --> 01:51:18,460
 processors and manufacturing you have in your region, it can be very expensive to transport.

2012
01:51:18,460 --> 01:51:22,740
 And so it's really about who you know in close proximity in the industry in terms of how

2013
01:51:22,740 --> 01:51:26,620
 effective you can be at recycling glass, which is really unfortunate because glass is very

2014
01:51:26,620 --> 01:51:29,980
 easy to recycle once you get it clean and into the system.

2015
01:51:29,980 --> 01:51:32,180
 But we will monitor those.

2016
01:51:32,180 --> 01:51:37,900
 In terms of market updates, we've been kind of providing this price per ton outlook on

2017
01:51:37,900 --> 01:51:38,900
 this each time we met.

2018
01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:45,380
 So the first time we discussed recycling was September 2017, and the results kind of vary.

2019
01:51:45,380 --> 01:51:47,180
 There is some volatility here.

2020
01:51:47,180 --> 01:51:49,980
 Plastics remain fairly low, but it's still moving.

2021
01:51:49,980 --> 01:51:52,220
 Aluminum is probably the most stable.

2022
01:51:52,220 --> 01:51:58,460
 Glass, you actually have to pay on a per ton basis for a facility to accept it.

2023
01:51:58,460 --> 01:52:00,180
 Right now, the market's trading.

2024
01:52:00,180 --> 01:52:03,340
 You basically pay $32.50 for a ton.

2025
01:52:03,340 --> 01:52:07,820
 Perhaps most recent agreement, they were paying $40 a ton just to have strategic accept it.

2026
01:52:07,820 --> 01:52:13,740
 And that's in addition to your hauling costs and logistics that go along with it.

2027
01:52:13,740 --> 01:52:17,660
 Mixed paper's fairly low, cardboard's fairly low, but again, we're somewhat insulated because

2028
01:52:17,660 --> 01:52:19,260
 Pratt runs their own paper mill.

2029
01:52:19,260 --> 01:52:22,220
 So we are fortunate in that regard.

2030
01:52:22,220 --> 01:52:25,260
 The market update, it's not all doom and gloom, but there are some headwinds out there that

2031
01:52:25,260 --> 01:52:27,180
 we need to pay attention to.

2032
01:52:27,180 --> 01:52:30,240
 From a foreign market standpoint, India followed suit with China.

2033
01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:33,500
 They banned imported plastics.

2034
01:52:33,500 --> 01:52:38,260
 Southeast Asia is the remaining backstop out there after China backed out.

2035
01:52:38,260 --> 01:52:40,940
 I don't know how long that's going to last.

2036
01:52:40,940 --> 01:52:46,980
 If you're curious, I would Google Malaysia and recycling, and it's pretty shocking what's

2037
01:52:46,980 --> 01:52:49,700
 happened there in about a year time frame.

2038
01:52:49,700 --> 01:52:53,540
 So I do think it's going to become more and more dependent on the domestic market to find

2039
01:52:53,540 --> 01:52:55,100
 a solution here.

2040
01:52:55,100 --> 01:53:00,720
 The good news is not only do we have investments coming in domestically, we do have Chinese

2041
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:02,380
 firms that are investing here.

2042
01:53:02,380 --> 01:53:06,580
 They still need the feedstock, they're in manufacturing, so they need the plastics.

2043
01:53:06,580 --> 01:53:09,980
 So there is foreign investment coming into the U.S. for the system as well.

2044
01:53:09,980 --> 01:53:13,940
 Not only that, you also have the federal government as well as state governments proposing bills

2045
01:53:13,940 --> 01:53:19,860
 to try to incentivize manufacturers to utilize recycling feedstock for their processes.

2046
01:53:19,860 --> 01:53:24,820
 So I think it's not going to be fixed overnight, but we are seeing some promising signs in

2047
01:53:24,820 --> 01:53:27,580
 terms of hopefully shoring up the market.

2048
01:53:27,580 --> 01:53:31,780
 A couple of things I will say that we feel pretty confident about is the market's going

2049
01:53:31,780 --> 01:53:34,660
 to be volatile for a period of time moving forward.

2050
01:53:34,660 --> 01:53:37,180
 Again, we are somewhat insulated.

2051
01:53:37,180 --> 01:53:43,740
 Despite the breakdown in communication, our contract is very favorable in terms of materials

2052
01:53:43,740 --> 01:53:48,180
 and the basically financials of it.

2053
01:53:48,180 --> 01:53:52,980
 We have looked at a number of other cities that are basically negotiating contracts right

2054
01:53:52,980 --> 01:53:54,300
 now.

2055
01:53:54,300 --> 01:54:00,820
 We get about $15 a ton in revenue, plus a pretty wide array of program materials.

2056
01:54:00,820 --> 01:54:05,000
 Cities that have much more bargaining power than we do are getting contracts that are

2057
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:09,460
 much, much less favorable than what we are, and I put a few of these up here on the board.

2058
01:54:09,460 --> 01:54:14,780
 If we were to secure a deal like Savannah, Georgia, who their loan bidder was Pratt,

2059
01:54:14,780 --> 01:54:17,780
 they're paying $95 a ton to move the materials in their program.

2060
01:54:17,780 --> 01:54:22,020
 That's about a million and a half dollar swing if we were to go in that direction.

2061
01:54:22,020 --> 01:54:24,020
 And so it's not ideal.

2062
01:54:24,020 --> 01:54:25,620
 We prefer better communication.

2063
01:54:25,620 --> 01:54:30,860
 I will say that Pratt's been a good partner with us, they've been very communicative,

2064
01:54:30,860 --> 01:54:34,980
 so I'm fortunate with this breakdown, but they are working diligently to help turn this

2065
01:54:34,980 --> 01:54:37,820
 back around for us.

2066
01:54:37,820 --> 01:54:42,140
 We do expect low prices and high quality standards to continue even if the domestic market firms

2067
01:54:42,140 --> 01:54:43,140
 up.

2068
01:54:43,140 --> 01:54:46,580
 One thing's for certain that there's never going to be a market for bad material, dirty

2069
01:54:46,580 --> 01:54:47,580
 material.

2070
01:54:47,580 --> 01:54:51,820
 So that's why our continued approach to contamination is so critical.

2071
01:54:51,820 --> 01:54:56,660
 There may be a market for recyclables, but just not for us to offload trash to those

2072
01:54:56,660 --> 01:54:57,660
 facilities.

2073
01:54:57,660 --> 01:55:01,740
 So to that end, we want to continue recycling all of our program materials in a responsible

2074
01:55:01,740 --> 01:55:02,740
 manner.

2075
01:55:02,740 --> 01:55:06,180
 For residents and businesses, continue the responsible behaviors.

2076
01:55:06,180 --> 01:55:08,380
 Utilize your blue bin as you have.

2077
01:55:08,380 --> 01:55:11,700
 If you're not sure, then check it out, and one of the things that we're going to be trying

2078
01:55:11,700 --> 01:55:15,340
 to do over the next 12 to 18 months is improve our education efforts.

2079
01:55:15,340 --> 01:55:19,700
 We have a robust education program now, but as we mentioned in the earlier presentation,

2080
01:55:19,700 --> 01:55:23,420
 our website -- some of the portals that we can provide in terms of information could

2081
01:55:23,420 --> 01:55:25,500
 be better, and we're going to be working on that.

2082
01:55:25,500 --> 01:55:29,700
 Pratt, in terms of commitments on their side, they have committed to providing any type

2083
01:55:29,700 --> 01:55:35,180
 of change in the program, gets a 48-hour advance notice before anything's enacted.

2084
01:55:35,180 --> 01:55:39,060
 We're also going to be meeting with them monthly to get market and program updates.

2085
01:55:39,060 --> 01:55:40,980
 We meet with them regularly right now.

2086
01:55:40,980 --> 01:55:45,540
 However, for some reason, this didn't come through those communications, and that's what

2087
01:55:45,540 --> 01:55:47,500
 troubled us about it.

2088
01:55:47,500 --> 01:55:52,540
 In terms of solid waste, we are basically in trust and verify mode, is the way we would

2089
01:55:52,540 --> 01:55:53,540
 put it.

2090
01:55:53,540 --> 01:55:59,780
 In terms of inbound, we do random inspections, what we call basically contamination calibrations.

2091
01:55:59,780 --> 01:56:04,100
 Whenever a load hits the floor out there, they give an assessment of this percent contaminated

2092
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:05,180
 by weight.

2093
01:56:05,180 --> 01:56:08,700
 We want to make sure we're seeing that exactly the way Pratt's seeing it, and if there's

2094
01:56:08,700 --> 01:56:13,040
 differences in opinion, we kind of meet that out with them.

2095
01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:18,180
 Also to that end, we are going to be basically inspecting at least one load per week of anything

2096
01:56:18,180 --> 01:56:20,340
 that's going through the landfill from Pratt.

2097
01:56:20,340 --> 01:56:22,540
 This is an example of that.

2098
01:56:22,540 --> 01:56:26,180
 We'll dump that out, fan it out, and take a look and see if there's materials that could

2099
01:56:26,180 --> 01:56:30,300
 be recycled that are in there in big quantities, and if it is, then we're going to have them

2100
01:56:30,300 --> 01:56:33,940
 answer the question for what happened here.

2101
01:56:33,940 --> 01:56:36,700
 So that's pretty much the high-level presentation.

2102
01:56:36,700 --> 01:56:41,020
 I'm happy to stand for any questions, concerns that you might have.

2103
01:56:41,020 --> 01:56:46,300
 Who wants to go first?

2104
01:56:46,300 --> 01:56:53,980
 Well, I guess I would just encourage you guys to try to stay as keenly aware of what's going

2105
01:56:53,980 --> 01:57:01,300
 on as possible so that we don't have this kind of thing happen again.

2106
01:57:01,300 --> 01:57:08,180
 We should really know what's coming and going from our landfill pretty well.

2107
01:57:08,180 --> 01:57:15,380
 And then I have a question about the picture on page slide six, the bale of plastic.

2108
01:57:15,380 --> 01:57:16,860
 Is that our bale?

2109
01:57:16,860 --> 01:57:17,860
 Yes, it is.

2110
01:57:17,860 --> 01:57:22,900
 It's filled with film, which is not allowed in recycling.

2111
01:57:22,900 --> 01:57:24,380
 Film can be recycled.

2112
01:57:24,380 --> 01:57:30,060
 Now, on some of this, we don't want to encourage folks putting film in there.

2113
01:57:30,060 --> 01:57:36,220
 The biggest reason is what they call a tangler, and so it gets into the gears and the machinery

2114
01:57:36,220 --> 01:57:38,740
 and tangles it up.

2115
01:57:38,740 --> 01:57:42,220
 So whenever you look at -- I forget which one film is.

2116
01:57:42,220 --> 01:57:43,220
 It's one of these in here.

2117
01:57:43,220 --> 01:57:45,140
 It is capable of being recycled.

2118
01:57:45,140 --> 01:57:50,340
 We would much prefer folks to source-separate that and take, let's say, a grocery sack,

2119
01:57:50,340 --> 01:57:51,500
 take that back to the grocery store.

2120
01:57:51,500 --> 01:57:53,780
 They typically recycle that on their own.

2121
01:57:53,780 --> 01:57:55,980
 The problem isn't that it can't be recycled.

2122
01:57:55,980 --> 01:57:59,140
 It's the challenges it presents in the processing equipment.

2123
01:57:59,140 --> 01:58:03,700
 But officially, we don't accept that in our curbside recycling program.

2124
01:58:03,700 --> 01:58:09,700
 Per contract, we do, however, we discourage folks to put it into the single stream container.

2125
01:58:09,700 --> 01:58:10,700
 Okay.

2126
01:58:10,700 --> 01:58:18,380
 Well, we'll take all of your old grocery bags and stuff.

2127
01:58:18,380 --> 01:58:19,380
 Yeah.

2128
01:58:19,380 --> 01:58:20,380
 Well -- oh, are you done?

2129
01:58:20,380 --> 01:58:21,380
 I'm sorry.

2130
01:58:21,380 --> 01:58:22,380
 No, I just have one more question.

2131
01:58:22,380 --> 01:58:23,380
 Okay.

2132
01:58:23,380 --> 01:58:25,520
 On the pie chart on slide four --

2133
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:26,520
 Yes.

2134
01:58:26,520 --> 01:58:33,620
 -- 44 percent organics, how much -- what percentage of organics do you think we're

2135
01:58:33,620 --> 01:58:37,380
 collecting and disposing of properly?

2136
01:58:37,380 --> 01:58:38,380
 And if they were --

2137
01:58:38,380 --> 01:58:39,380
 Just generally --

2138
01:58:39,380 --> 01:58:40,380
 -- put in the yard waste --

2139
01:58:40,380 --> 01:58:43,380
 Yeah, I mean, that's kind of why I'm bringing it up, because I kind of -- I was like, oh,

2140
01:58:43,380 --> 01:58:44,380
 look at that.

2141
01:58:44,380 --> 01:58:45,380
 How much did we redo?

2142
01:58:45,380 --> 01:58:46,780
 Almost half of what anybody's collecting could actually be diverted --

2143
01:58:46,780 --> 01:58:48,900
 And I think yard waste is built into this.

2144
01:58:48,900 --> 01:58:52,620
 I'll have to go back to that study, but I think yard waste is part of your organics.

2145
01:58:52,620 --> 01:58:53,620
 It's part of that mix.

2146
01:58:53,620 --> 01:58:54,620
 Okay.

2147
01:58:54,620 --> 01:58:57,580
 One of the things I will say that we have not done as a city -- this is kind of a regional

2148
01:58:57,580 --> 01:58:59,160
 waste characterization study.

2149
01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:00,160
 We have not done --

2150
01:59:00,160 --> 01:59:01,160
 A waste sort?

2151
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:02,380
 -- a waste characterization study just on Denton.

2152
01:59:02,380 --> 01:59:03,380
 Right.

2153
01:59:03,380 --> 01:59:07,460
 So that's something we could consider doing and taking a look at.

2154
01:59:07,460 --> 01:59:13,420
 From us, what we've done to date is basically broken out -- and this is not by material,

2155
01:59:13,420 --> 01:59:17,900
 but it basically kind of shows you a source of the things that we're disposing and diverting.

2156
01:59:17,900 --> 01:59:24,900
 So obviously refuse -- that contains a lot of different things up here, but for organics,

2157
01:59:24,900 --> 01:59:31,120
 we do have commercial organics, which is small volume, but then your yard waste is a significant

2158
01:59:31,120 --> 01:59:32,780
 amount of that.

2159
01:59:32,780 --> 01:59:37,340
 So I think in that regional characterization, they do include both food waste along with

2160
01:59:37,340 --> 01:59:38,340
 other organic products.

2161
01:59:38,340 --> 01:59:39,340
 Okay.

2162
01:59:39,340 --> 01:59:40,340
 In that --

2163
01:59:40,340 --> 01:59:41,340
 So if -- oh, I'm sorry.

2164
01:59:41,340 --> 01:59:42,340
 Go ahead.

2165
01:59:42,340 --> 01:59:43,340
 I just had a quick question.

2166
01:59:43,340 --> 01:59:45,180
 In that same pie chart, what is C and D, 1%?

2167
01:59:45,180 --> 01:59:46,660
 Construction and demolition.

2168
01:59:46,660 --> 01:59:48,060
 And that's generally small.

2169
01:59:48,060 --> 01:59:52,340
 This is a residential waste characterization that's relatively small because most of that's

2170
01:59:52,340 --> 01:59:53,340
 commercial in nature.

2171
01:59:53,340 --> 01:59:54,340
 Yeah.

2172
01:59:54,340 --> 02:00:02,940
 Do you have any construction waste in mind?

2173
02:00:02,940 --> 02:00:03,940
 We hope not.

2174
02:00:03,940 --> 02:00:04,940
 We hope not.

2175
02:00:04,940 --> 02:00:08,060
 So food waste is most likely ending up in residential refuse if they don't have another

2176
02:00:08,060 --> 02:00:09,060
 place to put it.

2177
02:00:09,060 --> 02:00:10,060
 Yes.

2178
02:00:10,060 --> 02:00:11,060
 Okay.

2179
02:00:11,060 --> 02:00:14,060
 That or is put down the disposal drain and then it becomes a biosolid and then it goes

2180
02:00:14,060 --> 02:00:17,420
 into our composting program.

2181
02:00:17,420 --> 02:00:24,220
 I just have to say I was very disappointed to read that article because I asked for it

2182
02:00:24,220 --> 02:00:25,220
 in January.

2183
02:00:25,220 --> 02:00:29,700
 I thought we were getting ahead of this, the whole China market, and then you read in the

2184
02:00:29,700 --> 02:00:34,700
 newspaper that they've been putting it in the landfill, the timing was horrible.

2185
02:00:34,700 --> 02:00:38,700
 We just started telling people we're going to look in your garbage can.

2186
02:00:38,700 --> 02:00:41,740
 Just -- I know you're the messenger.

2187
02:00:41,740 --> 02:00:42,740
 Take it with --

2188
02:00:42,740 --> 02:00:44,780
 We share that with you.

2189
02:00:44,780 --> 02:00:45,780
 Yeah.

2190
02:00:45,780 --> 02:00:46,780
 Wow.

2191
02:00:46,780 --> 02:00:50,780
 I think their timing couldn't have been worse.

2192
02:00:50,780 --> 02:00:51,780
 Agreed.

2193
02:00:51,780 --> 02:00:52,780
 Yeah.

2194
02:00:52,780 --> 02:01:01,180
 So in essence, they're saying that it's -- I mean, it kind of sounds like they're saying

2195
02:01:01,180 --> 02:01:07,660
 that it's our fault that all that we were giving them was contaminated.

2196
02:01:07,660 --> 02:01:09,180
 I don't think so.

2197
02:01:09,180 --> 02:01:13,260
 I think it's changing the quality standard is what it's -- it's a moving target right

2198
02:01:13,260 --> 02:01:15,100
 now with contamination.

2199
02:01:15,100 --> 02:01:20,860
 So what was perfectly acceptable in the recycling stream two years ago is suddenly no good,

2200
02:01:20,860 --> 02:01:21,860
 and I think that's --

2201
02:01:21,860 --> 02:01:29,580
 We're going to have to start changing that as far as, you know, making sure that, yeah,

2202
02:01:29,580 --> 02:01:35,460
 that what we do put into recyclables is cleaner than what we've been doing because of that.

2203
02:01:35,460 --> 02:01:39,580
 I think that's -- that's the general direction we want to give the public is be mindful,

2204
02:01:39,580 --> 02:01:41,860
 you know, clean out the peanut butter jar.

2205
02:01:41,860 --> 02:01:43,620
 Don't put stuff in there that doesn't belong.

2206
02:01:43,620 --> 02:01:46,140
 If there's a question, verify it.

2207
02:01:46,140 --> 02:01:49,700
 That being said, you know, in talking to Pratt, they don't want folks changing their behaviors.

2208
02:01:49,700 --> 02:01:52,380
 The last thing we want is for someone to say, "Well, it's going to the landfill anyway,

2209
02:01:52,380 --> 02:01:54,540
 so I'm just going to put it in the trash container."

2210
02:01:54,540 --> 02:01:55,540
 They don't want that.

2211
02:01:55,540 --> 02:01:56,540
 We don't want that.

2212
02:01:56,540 --> 02:01:57,540
 That was my fear.

2213
02:01:57,540 --> 02:01:58,540
 And --

2214
02:01:58,540 --> 02:01:59,540
 And unfortunately, I think some of that is happening.

2215
02:01:59,540 --> 02:02:00,540
 So we need to --

2216
02:02:00,540 --> 02:02:01,540
 I understand that.

2217
02:02:01,540 --> 02:02:02,540
 -- get back out and educate.

2218
02:02:02,540 --> 02:02:06,220
 I think folks get frustrated any time they see news like this, and that's understandable.

2219
02:02:06,220 --> 02:02:09,980
 And I think that was really the context in most of the discussions that we've had with

2220
02:02:09,980 --> 02:02:14,620
 Pratt is, you know, we don't want folks changing their behavior, but that's ultimately up to

2221
02:02:14,620 --> 02:02:19,380
 the citizen to decide, not for us to decide based on not informing them.

2222
02:02:19,380 --> 02:02:23,380
 And so I think it's one of those things that we've got to trust our citizens with bad news

2223
02:02:23,380 --> 02:02:27,540
 that they're going to do the responsible thing, which is recycle the right way and continue

2224
02:02:27,540 --> 02:02:30,100
 to stay dedicated to the program.

2225
02:02:30,100 --> 02:02:35,260
 Because ultimately, really, it's -- you know, once we turn that stuff over to them, they

2226
02:02:35,260 --> 02:02:36,900
 can do whatever they want with it.

2227
02:02:36,900 --> 02:02:37,900
 It's theirs, contractually.

2228
02:02:37,900 --> 02:02:38,900
 Yeah.

2229
02:02:38,900 --> 02:02:39,900
 It's theirs.

2230
02:02:39,900 --> 02:02:44,860
 And so, I mean, moving forward -- and I know it's 2027 when their contract is up.

2231
02:02:44,860 --> 02:02:47,860
 Is that something that can be stipulated in a new contract?

2232
02:02:47,860 --> 02:02:52,900
 Are other municipalities doing that, where they say, you know, well, you can take our

2233
02:02:52,900 --> 02:02:55,980
 recyclables, but they have to go to recycling?

2234
02:02:55,980 --> 02:02:58,460
 They can't be put in any landfill.

2235
02:02:58,460 --> 02:03:01,860
 I think the challenge with that is there's no guarantees in any commodity market, any

2236
02:03:01,860 --> 02:03:08,100
 market for that matter, is at a certain point, if you can't move the material and you can't

2237
02:03:08,100 --> 02:03:11,380
 landfill it, then stockpiling is the option.

2238
02:03:11,380 --> 02:03:15,020
 And from a regulatory standpoint, you really can't stockpile.

2239
02:03:15,020 --> 02:03:18,460
 Some facilities took to that after this hit, saying we'll hold out until the market turns

2240
02:03:18,460 --> 02:03:19,460
 around.

2241
02:03:19,460 --> 02:03:22,020
 Well, we're almost two years -- or a year and a half in.

2242
02:03:22,020 --> 02:03:26,060
 The market hasn't turned, and what ended up happening, I think, was the FCC facility in

2243
02:03:26,060 --> 02:03:30,500
 Dallas actually caught on fire with huge amounts of stockpiles.

2244
02:03:30,500 --> 02:03:37,060
 And so, you do have to provide some consideration for them that if it's not movable in the market,

2245
02:03:37,060 --> 02:03:40,700
 then we may need to allow that to happen.

2246
02:03:40,700 --> 02:03:41,700
 The biggest change is --

2247
02:03:41,700 --> 02:03:46,220
 They get up and they walk out, and you're stuck with the whole thing sitting right there.

2248
02:03:46,220 --> 02:03:48,980
 Yeah, you don't want to run one of these folks out of business.

2249
02:03:48,980 --> 02:03:53,540
 I think the difference with us and Pratt -- understand that Pratt's not like Republic or Waste Management

2250
02:03:53,540 --> 02:03:54,540
 or Waste Connections.

2251
02:03:54,540 --> 02:03:55,540
 They don't own landfills.

2252
02:03:55,540 --> 02:04:01,500
 So, we get a heightened sense of visibility to what they're doing that maybe someone that

2253
02:04:01,500 --> 02:04:04,660
 has a Republic or someone servicing them, they just don't get to see it.

2254
02:04:04,660 --> 02:04:09,420
 So, we get to see it, you know, good, bad, and ugly sometimes, and again, I think the

2255
02:04:09,420 --> 02:04:14,300
 biggest thing here, Ms. Bynum, is that they should have told us, "Hey, this was going

2256
02:04:14,300 --> 02:04:15,300
 to happen."

2257
02:04:15,300 --> 02:04:16,300
 I agree.

2258
02:04:16,300 --> 02:04:17,300
 And I think if that had happened --

2259
02:04:17,300 --> 02:04:20,820
 That's the biggest issue was communication, because then you could have gotten ahead of

2260
02:04:20,820 --> 02:04:21,820
 it and --

2261
02:04:21,820 --> 02:04:26,300
 And I think that message has been delivered time and time again, and I think they definitely

2262
02:04:26,300 --> 02:04:31,100
 understand that, and they're definitely making adjustments in accordance with it.

2263
02:04:31,100 --> 02:04:36,740
 Am I right in remembering that originally you contracted with Trinity Industries, and

2264
02:04:36,740 --> 02:04:39,020
 they used their own trucks for recycling?

2265
02:04:39,020 --> 02:04:40,300
 For the collection side of things.

2266
02:04:40,300 --> 02:04:41,300
 That's correct.

2267
02:04:41,300 --> 02:04:42,300
 Is that right, Tina?

2268
02:04:42,300 --> 02:04:43,300
 Trinity?

2269
02:04:43,300 --> 02:04:47,620
 But they didn't do the actual selling to the commodity market?

2270
02:04:47,620 --> 02:04:48,620
 No.

2271
02:04:48,620 --> 02:04:50,540
 Pratt's been our material recovery facility.

2272
02:04:50,540 --> 02:04:51,540
 Okay.

2273
02:04:51,540 --> 02:04:53,580
 I was just remembering the Trinity trucks.

2274
02:04:53,580 --> 02:04:57,740
 And I have read other articles where -- I mean, this is happening in a lot of communities.

2275
02:04:57,740 --> 02:05:00,220
 There's one that has a waste energy facility.

2276
02:05:00,220 --> 02:05:02,860
 I came from a waste energy facility.

2277
02:05:02,860 --> 02:05:08,540
 They're starting to burn the paper and the cardboard, because that's the most economical

2278
02:05:08,540 --> 02:05:11,860
 least damage that they can do, so it happens.

2279
02:05:11,860 --> 02:05:13,740
 It's just the communication.

2280
02:05:13,740 --> 02:05:17,480
 The one thing I'll say, and I try not to read the press clippings too often, but there was

2281
02:05:17,480 --> 02:05:21,580
 an article in the newspaper, I think it was an opinion piece a couple days ago, that said,

2282
02:05:21,580 --> 02:05:26,580
 you know, we're at a crossroads, we're in dire straits, and that's really not our assessment

2283
02:05:26,580 --> 02:05:28,260
 in terms of where we are with our program.

2284
02:05:28,260 --> 02:05:29,260
 Could things be better?

2285
02:05:29,260 --> 02:05:30,260
 Absolutely.

2286
02:05:30,260 --> 02:05:34,840
 But I think all things considered, we've weathered most of what we've seen thus far fairly well

2287
02:05:34,840 --> 02:05:40,740
 relative to others like Philadelphia and other programs that are having to step away from

2288
02:05:40,740 --> 02:05:43,020
 their programs entirely.

2289
02:05:43,020 --> 02:05:44,960
 Part of that is our contract with Pratt.

2290
02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:48,020
 Part of it's where we are from a location standpoint.

2291
02:05:48,020 --> 02:05:51,880
 Part of this, we have a pretty decent program, all things considered.

2292
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:55,460
 We just need to clean up our contamination a little bit, and I think we'll be positioned

2293
02:05:55,460 --> 02:05:59,260
 well now, as well as what's coming to us down the road.

2294
02:05:59,260 --> 02:06:06,620
 Are you going to be sending out another flyer or informational flyer that doesn't have a

2295
02:06:06,620 --> 02:06:08,700
 typo on it?

2296
02:06:08,700 --> 02:06:09,700
 We're planning on it.

2297
02:06:09,700 --> 02:06:10,700
 Certainly.

2298
02:06:10,700 --> 02:06:13,020
 Sorry to bring that up.

2299
02:06:13,020 --> 02:06:15,740
 We want to get through these presentations first, we want to make sure that we're all

2300
02:06:15,740 --> 02:06:16,740
 in alignment.

2301
02:06:16,740 --> 02:06:22,340
 Again, our approach to this is we keep the program materials the same, we move forward

2302
02:06:22,340 --> 02:06:25,940
 with education, and then we'll start getting a lot of that stuff out there to the community

2303
02:06:25,940 --> 02:06:26,940
 again.

2304
02:06:26,940 --> 02:06:30,220
 I think education is going to be pretty central.

2305
02:06:30,220 --> 02:06:34,500
 I'm sorry, I have a couple more things.

2306
02:06:34,500 --> 02:06:35,500
 Oh, go ahead.

2307
02:06:35,500 --> 02:06:42,020
 Well, you kind of brought it up about burning the waste.

2308
02:06:42,020 --> 02:06:49,000
 How would you respond to somebody in the community as a solid waste professional?

2309
02:06:49,000 --> 02:06:56,420
 How would you respond to them saying or suggesting that recycling is a waste of effort, a waste

2310
02:06:56,420 --> 02:07:04,420
 of money, a waste of resources, and that, in fact, it would be cheaper and better just

2311
02:07:04,420 --> 02:07:06,600
 to landfill all of this stuff?

2312
02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:13,740
 I think it goes back to the, I think I have it here, let me see, I don't have it here,

2313
02:07:13,740 --> 02:07:19,020
 but essentially whenever you look at recycling, it's not just an economics decision.

2314
02:07:19,020 --> 02:07:24,500
 I think we are getting to a point where the financial realities of recycling is going

2315
02:07:24,500 --> 02:07:25,500
 to kind of come home.

2316
02:07:25,500 --> 02:07:29,380
 We have to start paying for recycling much like we do for waste disposal.

2317
02:07:29,380 --> 02:07:33,420
 We're insulated from that right now because of our contract, but it is coming.

2318
02:07:33,420 --> 02:07:35,740
 Most communities are dealing with that right now.

2319
02:07:35,740 --> 02:07:41,940
 So really, it comes down to value proposition or kind of, I guess, an individual approach

2320
02:07:41,940 --> 02:07:46,380
 to things is there are people in our community that do a tremendous amount of work to recycle

2321
02:07:46,380 --> 02:07:47,380
 the right way.

2322
02:07:47,380 --> 02:07:51,380
 I think there's also folks in our community that look at it and say, "I prefer not to."

2323
02:07:51,380 --> 02:07:56,280
 We've been in customer service for a number of years, we heard those sentiments firsthand.

2324
02:07:56,280 --> 02:08:01,780
 I think it's really about what is important to you, what's your value system individually.

2325
02:08:01,780 --> 02:08:05,620
 We certainly feel like, as an organization, that this is important.

2326
02:08:05,620 --> 02:08:09,740
 Obviously, we own our own landfills, so we want to keep stuff out of there as much as

2327
02:08:09,740 --> 02:08:10,740
 we can.

2328
02:08:10,740 --> 02:08:14,140
 But we also know that we can't make those decisions in a vacuum when everyone gets a

2329
02:08:14,140 --> 02:08:15,140
 say at it.

2330
02:08:15,140 --> 02:08:20,160
 And so there's the sustainability piece, there's the environmental piece, which is the reduction

2331
02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:23,380
 of raw materials, the emissions, all that that goes into it.

2332
02:08:23,380 --> 02:08:27,580
 I think when we visited about this last time, our recycling program takes the equivalent

2333
02:08:27,580 --> 02:08:30,220
 of about 4,000 cars off the road every year.

2334
02:08:30,220 --> 02:08:31,220
 So I think-

2335
02:08:31,220 --> 02:08:32,220
 And that's huge.

2336
02:08:32,220 --> 02:08:33,220
 It is big.

2337
02:08:33,220 --> 02:08:36,300
 And greenhouse gas emissions, not just from what happens at the landfill, but the sourcing

2338
02:08:36,300 --> 02:08:40,260
 of these materials, not everyone's going to look at that the same way.

2339
02:08:40,260 --> 02:08:44,340
 So our approach is we definitely want folks to do this responsibly, but if they're not

2340
02:08:44,340 --> 02:08:49,300
 into the program, don't abuse it and don't take advantage of it towards the efforts of

2341
02:08:49,300 --> 02:08:50,980
 others.

2342
02:08:50,980 --> 02:08:52,300
 Right.

2343
02:08:52,300 --> 02:09:00,420
 Within the industry, has anybody done a significant study that suggests that, using an example

2344
02:09:00,420 --> 02:09:09,420
 you gave, that if everybody washes out their peanut butter jar with hot water and a rag

2345
02:09:09,420 --> 02:09:16,140
 and then recycles it, and then that we're still beating the environmental edge there,

2346
02:09:16,140 --> 02:09:21,660
 we've used hot water, we've washed the rag, we're using soap, I mean, has anybody really

2347
02:09:21,660 --> 02:09:26,140
 done something to say that, "Hey, we're still beating the curve on this environmental thing,"

2348
02:09:26,140 --> 02:09:32,900
 because all of those are things that are being used to get that recyclable product back into

2349
02:09:32,900 --> 02:09:33,900
 that commodity market.

2350
02:09:33,900 --> 02:09:36,100
 I can't cite a specific study, Brian.

2351
02:09:36,100 --> 02:09:37,100
 Do you have one in mind?

2352
02:09:37,100 --> 02:09:40,180
 I mean, I apologize, but to me, that's a reality.

2353
02:09:40,180 --> 02:09:44,620
 If everybody's working at home to take the labels off their glass and clean out the peanut,

2354
02:09:44,620 --> 02:09:46,660
 you ever clean out a peanut butter jar?

2355
02:09:46,660 --> 02:09:47,660
 Yes.

2356
02:09:47,660 --> 02:09:48,660
 It's not easy.

2357
02:09:48,660 --> 02:09:53,660
 It's not easy, and again, it's a moving target because the way we heated water 10 years ago

2358
02:09:53,660 --> 02:10:00,540
 is a lot more inefficient and a lot more environmentally unfriendly than how we do it today with whatever

2359
02:10:00,540 --> 02:10:01,880
 method you're using.

2360
02:10:01,880 --> 02:10:04,420
 So again, there's a lot of things that are moving.

2361
02:10:04,420 --> 02:10:07,500
 At the end of the day, though, it goes back to what Ethan was saying, it's about resource

2362
02:10:07,500 --> 02:10:08,500
 management.

2363
02:10:08,500 --> 02:10:14,620
 And again, if we can provide an opportunity to create an area where we have resources

2364
02:10:14,620 --> 02:10:18,300
 available as opposed to raw material, then by all means, let's do that.

2365
02:10:18,300 --> 02:10:21,500
 We're saving it from an environmental standpoint, and if you do a full cost accounting at the

2366
02:10:21,500 --> 02:10:26,540
 end of the day, I think recycling will still be a net benefit to the environment even after

2367
02:10:26,540 --> 02:10:27,540
 going through all these steps.

2368
02:10:27,540 --> 02:10:28,540
 Okay.

2369
02:10:28,540 --> 02:10:29,540
 Okay.

2370
02:10:29,540 --> 02:10:30,540
 Brian.

2371
02:10:30,540 --> 02:10:31,540
 Well, I'm a strong proponent of recycling.

2372
02:10:31,540 --> 02:10:32,540
 Of course you are.

2373
02:10:32,540 --> 02:10:36,540
 I just, you know, these things, as I'm sitting there trying to clean out my peanut butter

2374
02:10:36,540 --> 02:10:37,540
 jar.

2375
02:10:37,540 --> 02:10:38,540
 Is this clean enough?

2376
02:10:38,540 --> 02:10:39,540
 Right.

2377
02:10:39,540 --> 02:10:44,360
 Well, the one thing I will say to that, not necessarily to the system that you were mentioning,

2378
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:49,940
 but we also don't need to lose sight of the reduce and reuse side of this thing, is recycling

2379
02:10:49,940 --> 02:10:52,100
 is the end of the life cycle.

2380
02:10:52,100 --> 02:10:56,380
 It's a fork in the road for a product that either gets disposed or recycled, and in some

2381
02:10:56,380 --> 02:11:00,780
 cases, like with plastics, it can only be recycled a few times effectively.

2382
02:11:00,780 --> 02:11:04,460
 And so I think that's something else that we want to talk about, especially when you

2383
02:11:04,460 --> 02:11:07,260
 look at a lot of the plastics that are in the system.

2384
02:11:07,260 --> 02:11:10,700
 We can have an exceptional recycling program, but there's still going to be waste coming

2385
02:11:10,700 --> 02:11:11,700
 out of it.

2386
02:11:11,700 --> 02:11:14,700
 And so I think something else for us to keep in mind.

2387
02:11:14,700 --> 02:11:15,700
 Yep.

2388
02:11:15,700 --> 02:11:16,700
 Reduce, reuse, then recycle.

2389
02:11:16,700 --> 02:11:17,700
 In that order, yes.

2390
02:11:17,700 --> 02:11:18,700
 Thanks.

2391
02:11:18,700 --> 02:11:19,700
 Yep.

2392
02:11:19,700 --> 02:11:20,700
 Don't create in the first place.

2393
02:11:20,700 --> 02:11:21,700
 Yeah.

2394
02:11:21,700 --> 02:11:22,700
 Other questions?

2395
02:11:22,700 --> 02:11:23,700
 Get what you need.

2396
02:11:23,700 --> 02:11:24,700
 Appreciate the time.

2397
02:11:24,700 --> 02:11:25,700
 Thank you.

2398
02:11:25,700 --> 02:11:26,700
 Just for the PB's benefit, all of these three work session items will be presented tomorrow

2399
02:11:26,700 --> 02:11:27,700
 at council.

2400
02:11:27,700 --> 02:11:28,700
 Okay.

2401
02:11:28,700 --> 02:11:29,700
 Oh.

2402
02:11:29,700 --> 02:11:34,700
 So just, we wanted to come to you all first and then go to council.

2403
02:11:34,700 --> 02:11:37,820
 Thank you.

2404
02:11:37,820 --> 02:11:43,700
 Work session begins at 11.30 a.m.

2405
02:11:43,700 --> 02:11:44,700
 Okay.

2406
02:11:44,700 --> 02:11:45,700
 All right.

2407
02:11:45,700 --> 02:11:53,260
 Items for individual consideration, the public utility minutes.

2408
02:11:53,260 --> 02:11:56,900
 Did anyone have any changes or corrections?

2409
02:11:56,900 --> 02:11:58,420
 Okay.

2410
02:11:58,420 --> 02:12:01,660
 Having none, they'll stand approved as presented.

2411
02:12:01,660 --> 02:12:08,660
 The next item is consider recommending approval of a resolution appointing a member of the,

2412
02:12:08,660 --> 02:12:14,700
 to the board of directors of the Texas Municipal Power Agency, a joint powers agency representing

2413
02:12:14,700 --> 02:12:18,740
 the city of Denton, Texas, and declaring effective date.

2414
02:12:18,740 --> 02:12:23,940
 PB members, my name is Tony Buent, I'm the chief financial officer for the city.

2415
02:12:23,940 --> 02:12:31,860
 This item is to appoint a member for a two, for a new two year term.

2416
02:12:31,860 --> 02:12:35,940
 The current appointee is Mayor Chris Watts.

2417
02:12:35,940 --> 02:12:43,180
 The mayor has stated that he was, he'd be willing to continue to serve for an additional

2418
02:12:43,180 --> 02:12:44,180
 two years.

2419
02:12:44,180 --> 02:12:50,700
 There is no requirement that that appointee be a elected official of the city.

2420
02:12:50,700 --> 02:12:57,420
 We do have a second appointee and they're, they serve staggered terms, so the other appointee

2421
02:12:57,420 --> 02:13:00,560
 is Mr. Bill Cheek.

2422
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:06,340
 So the TNPA board is made up of eight board members, two from each of the participating

2423
02:13:06,340 --> 02:13:08,060
 municipalities.

2424
02:13:08,060 --> 02:13:12,420
 The mayor's current term expires on July 18th.

2425
02:13:12,420 --> 02:13:19,260
 We are here to, to one, see if, what the PB's recommendation is regarding the mayor's appointment.

2426
02:13:19,260 --> 02:13:24,980
 So I'd be clear too that, that is, you know, that is the mayor wanting to be, or asking

2427
02:13:24,980 --> 02:13:29,660
 to be reappointed, you know, but certainly if there are other recommendations, we're

2428
02:13:29,660 --> 02:13:33,340
 open to hear that as well from the, from the board today.

2429
02:13:33,340 --> 02:13:35,500
 How many terms has he served already?

2430
02:13:35,500 --> 02:13:38,260
 He's, he's been on the board since 2009.

2431
02:13:38,260 --> 02:13:42,300
 And is, are there expiry to those, I mean, can he continue to serve?

2432
02:13:42,300 --> 02:13:43,300
 Correct.

2433
02:13:43,300 --> 02:13:44,300
 There's no term limits on that.

2434
02:13:44,300 --> 02:13:45,300
 There's no term limits.

2435
02:13:45,300 --> 02:13:50,780
 Well, and I, I know that he's most qualified and he got us through some very difficult

2436
02:13:50,780 --> 02:13:51,780
 times.

2437
02:13:51,780 --> 02:13:54,860
 So I'm inclined to support that resolution.

2438
02:13:54,860 --> 02:13:55,860
 So we need a motion.

2439
02:13:55,860 --> 02:13:56,860
 Yep.

2440
02:13:56,860 --> 02:13:57,860
 We're trying to get this thing rolling.

2441
02:13:57,860 --> 02:13:58,860
 Oh, did you say motion?

2442
02:13:58,860 --> 02:13:59,860
 No, I need a motion.

2443
02:13:59,860 --> 02:14:00,860
 Oh, so moved.

2444
02:14:00,860 --> 02:14:01,860
 Second.

2445
02:14:01,860 --> 02:14:02,860
 All in favor say aye.

2446
02:14:02,860 --> 02:14:03,860
 Aye.

2447
02:14:03,860 --> 02:14:04,860
 That carries.

2448
02:14:04,860 --> 02:14:05,860
 Okay.

2449
02:14:05,860 --> 02:14:13,980
 Consider recommending an approval of a resolution appointing Frank Pugsley as the city's representative

2450
02:14:13,980 --> 02:14:18,860
 to serve as a member of the Board of Directors of the Upper Trinity Regional Water District

2451
02:14:18,860 --> 02:14:22,820
 and providing an effective date.

2452
02:14:22,820 --> 02:14:23,820
 Evening board members.

2453
02:14:23,820 --> 02:14:38,660
 Give me a second to pull this presentation up.

2454
02:14:38,660 --> 02:14:45,180
 So just say a quick background on this particular item, the city of Denton is a member of the

2455
02:14:45,180 --> 02:14:47,420
 Upper Trinity Regional Water District.

2456
02:14:47,420 --> 02:14:52,100
 They're a state charter district that is authorized to provide water, wastewater services, also

2457
02:14:52,100 --> 02:14:55,860
 provide a little bit of stormwater and watershed protection as well.

2458
02:14:55,860 --> 02:14:58,820
 The Board of Directors is a decision making body.

2459
02:14:58,820 --> 02:15:02,340
 They're responsible for developing funding and implementing regional water and wastewater

2460
02:15:02,340 --> 02:15:08,620
 systems and they have board members that are representative of the member cities that exist

2461
02:15:08,620 --> 02:15:12,820
 within the area served by Upper Trinity Regional Water District.

2462
02:15:12,820 --> 02:15:20,780
 So Mr. Tim Fisher, who was our former director of water, has recently retired and had actually

2463
02:15:20,780 --> 02:15:26,220
 served on Denton's as Denton's board representative since 2001.

2464
02:15:26,220 --> 02:15:33,260
 So we're in the shopping around for a new representative on the board, Mr. Pugsley drew

2465
02:15:33,260 --> 02:15:43,260
 the short straw and is now the has indicated a desire and allegedly an interest to fill

2466
02:15:43,260 --> 02:15:44,260
 the position.

2467
02:15:44,260 --> 02:15:53,300
 So upon the appointment, he will be able to fulfill the remainder of Mr. Fisher's term.

2468
02:15:53,300 --> 02:16:01,540
 That term will end on May 31st of 2021 and he'll be eligible at that point to be reappointed

2469
02:16:01,540 --> 02:16:04,660
 for another four year term with a resolution.

2470
02:16:04,660 --> 02:16:10,680
 We have traditionally done these through a resolution that is brought before the board

2471
02:16:10,680 --> 02:16:14,180
 and then is taken to the council for final approval.

2472
02:16:14,180 --> 02:16:17,860
 Once that resolution is completed, it will be provided to the secretary of the Upper

2473
02:16:17,860 --> 02:16:25,380
 Trinity Board and then they will vote to appoint Mr. Pugsley upon receipt of that or at their

2474
02:16:25,380 --> 02:16:27,180
 next available meeting.

2475
02:16:27,180 --> 02:16:32,540
 So that's all I have, I'd be glad to answer any questions that you might have.

2476
02:16:32,540 --> 02:16:33,540
 Questions?

2477
02:16:33,540 --> 02:16:34,540
 All right.

2478
02:16:34,540 --> 02:16:35,700
 Do we have a motion?

2479
02:16:35,700 --> 02:16:36,700
 So moved.

2480
02:16:36,700 --> 02:16:37,700
 Second.

2481
02:16:37,700 --> 02:16:38,700
 All in favor say aye.

2482
02:16:38,700 --> 02:16:39,700
 Aye.

2483
02:16:39,700 --> 02:16:40,700
 That one carries.

2484
02:16:40,700 --> 02:16:41,700
 ACM update.

2485
02:16:41,700 --> 02:16:54,020
 Yes, Madam Chair, members of the board, real quick update, in your packet you have a memorandum

2486
02:16:54,020 --> 02:16:58,820
 to the board regarding some questions that were brought up at your last meeting about

2487
02:16:58,820 --> 02:17:06,460
 attendance policy and talking with the city secretary, like this, I think strange, the

2488
02:17:06,460 --> 02:17:11,980
 microphone is, and talking with the city secretary, that request stemmed from a request from city

2489
02:17:11,980 --> 02:17:19,220
 council on attendance of not only the council but of their boards and commissions and Rosa

2490
02:17:19,220 --> 02:17:24,100
 Rios as our new city secretary has been on the job about just under two months and so

2491
02:17:24,100 --> 02:17:28,980
 she's going through a comprehensive review of our boards and commissions manual along

2492
02:17:28,980 --> 02:17:33,280
 with just all the policies and procedures as any good new manager would do just to make

2493
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:42,620
 sure that everything's running appropriately and smoothly and so just looking through the

2494
02:17:42,620 --> 02:17:47,500
 policies and procedures for the boards and commissions noted that the attendance should

2495
02:17:47,500 --> 02:17:52,140
 be reported to council on a quarterly basis and it had been reported on a yearly basis

2496
02:17:52,140 --> 02:17:58,020
 so what she's doing is just making sure that we're following the policies that have been

2497
02:17:58,020 --> 02:18:02,400
 in place for the last number of years so it's just really more house cleaning housekeeping

2498
02:18:02,400 --> 02:18:08,060
 kind of things and so that's why that was passed on to to the board members and committees

2499
02:18:08,060 --> 02:18:09,060
 across the organization.

2500
02:18:09,060 --> 02:18:11,300
 It's a policy we should be following it.

2501
02:18:11,300 --> 02:18:15,900
 We need to come up with our own procedure for collecting that information and reporting

2502
02:18:15,900 --> 02:18:22,220
 it or no sir I believe Kim Makin a recording secretary keeps track of attendance and so

2503
02:18:22,220 --> 02:18:27,420
 that'll be reported to to the city secretary's office and and then reported to council as

2504
02:18:27,420 --> 02:18:34,380
 needed she does a very good job of that again a couple of things you've got your future

2505
02:18:34,380 --> 02:18:39,220
 agenda list a lot of budget items that you'll be hearing over the next number of weeks as

2506
02:18:39,220 --> 02:18:45,220
 you as you conduct your meetings over the next throughout the summer the new business

2507
02:18:45,220 --> 02:18:50,020
 matrix again we covered the item about the question the attendance policy I know there's

2508
02:18:50,020 --> 02:18:55,100
 an item there about future PUB meetings we're bringing that to you all in an upcoming meeting

2509
02:18:55,100 --> 02:19:00,220
 to discuss and see what options you all would like to consider and then the last thing is

2510
02:19:00,220 --> 02:19:06,700
 not on your agenda and I don't know how many folks on the board are aware but George Morrow

2511
02:19:06,700 --> 02:19:12,180
 our general manager for DME he announced his retirement earlier this month believe effective

2512
02:19:12,180 --> 02:19:18,700
 June 1st of this year so just wanted you to be made aware of that that's why you saw Tony

2513
02:19:18,700 --> 02:19:23,780
 Puente up at the podium to discuss the appointment for the TMPA board member actually Tony will

2514
02:19:23,780 --> 02:19:30,060
 be the interim general manager until we go and recruit a successor to Mr. Morrow so just

2515
02:19:30,060 --> 02:19:38,580
 wanted to pass that information on to you so you were aware thank you thank you just

2516
02:19:38,580 --> 02:19:46,540
 go back to the attendance thing so we need to tell Kim if we're going to be absent or

2517
02:19:46,540 --> 02:20:00,140
 we tell you ideally it would be great because I know Kim sends out the agendas ahead of

2518
02:20:00,140 --> 02:20:05,420
 time once it's posted so it'd be best to send it to Kim and the only reason why I say

2519
02:20:05,420 --> 02:20:13,060
 that is excuse me if you by chance copy the entire board just because it's what you do

2520
02:20:13,060 --> 02:20:17,580
 you could be violating the Texas Open Meetings Act especially someone replies all so it'd

2521
02:20:17,580 --> 02:20:22,460
 just be best just to email Kim you're certainly welcome to email me if you'd like and we'll

2522
02:20:22,460 --> 02:20:25,780
 make note of that and quite honestly it's really just to make sure we have a quorum

2523
02:20:25,780 --> 02:20:30,220
 yeah I was gonna say then she'll know if we have a quorum and then but now now there's

2524
02:20:30,220 --> 02:20:37,020
 a category of excused or unexcused it's always been there yeah but we just have never paid

2525
02:20:37,020 --> 02:20:41,140
 attention to it right somebody's gonna need to determine you're always in the hospital

2526
02:20:41,140 --> 02:20:47,660
 or something like it's been determined it has been determined in the in the policy yeah

2527
02:20:47,660 --> 02:20:53,940
 no I know it's always been there yeah nobody's made the determination actually made the determination

2528
02:20:53,940 --> 02:21:02,620
 against the gray area of politics okay on to concluding items is there any items that

2529
02:21:02,620 --> 02:21:14,660
 a board member would like to be put on a future agenda or any comments yeah Lily and I were

2530
02:21:14,660 --> 02:21:20,540
 given a tour of the facilities on Friday absolutely delightful and we just wanted to go on record

2531
02:21:20,540 --> 02:21:26,060
 as thanking the staff so I have the business cards I just like to read the names into the

2532
02:21:26,060 --> 02:21:31,900
 record sure so Vanessa Ellison actually drove us around she's the sustainability coordinator

2533
02:21:31,900 --> 02:21:43,900
 Brian Barner rusty Willard Frank Pugsley deputy director of wastewater Hector Ortiz and David

2534
02:21:43,900 --> 02:21:49,340
 Hunter he gives a really good tour of the sewage plant by the way we haven't done that

2535
02:21:49,340 --> 02:21:55,140
 recently we wanted to thank them for the time that they took out of their usual work and

2536
02:21:55,140 --> 02:22:00,740
 their enthusiasm for their jobs yeah wanted that to go into the record I just wanted to

2537
02:22:00,740 --> 02:22:06,540
 add that everything that that you said but also to include that it really I haven't toured

2538
02:22:06,540 --> 02:22:11,540
 for about 20 years that was the last time I toured and it was just it was delightful

2539
02:22:11,540 --> 02:22:19,820
 to see how innovative and forward-thinking our process is here in Denton and it's it

2540
02:22:19,820 --> 02:22:25,780
 was yeah it was really I left there going oh this is wonderful and so everyone should

2541
02:22:25,780 --> 02:22:32,220
 go on these tours I took my daughter who's a sustainability major at UT yeah she's gonna

2542
02:22:32,220 --> 02:22:40,340
 be taking all that stuff back to Austin and comparing their solid waste I feel sorry for

2543
02:22:40,340 --> 02:22:50,140
 them well I'm sorry I couldn't go I was supposed to go but something came up with another volunteer

2544
02:22:50,140 --> 02:22:59,900
 opportunity that I have that I had to handle so all right any other items motion to adjourn