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 Monday, December 11th, 2023, we're going to just jump right into this.

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 Are there any members of the public that would like to speak at this point?

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 We're full of City of Denton folks, all right.

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 This is the regular meeting.

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 There are no presentations from the members of the public.

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 We'll move straight into the consent agenda.

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 I've already had a request.

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 Go ahead, Mr. Ryback.

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 I would like to remove items A, C and E from the consent agenda.

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 Any others?

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 Seeing that there be none, I will entertain a motion to approve of the consent agenda

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 items B, D, F, G, H, I, J and K.

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 We have a motion.

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 Second.

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 And a second from Mr. Plotk.

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 All those in favor, please say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Any opposed?

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 Passes unanimously.

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 Mr. Ryback, item A, and I believe Mr. Rayner may have had a question on that as well.

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 Yes, I was just curious about the sudden appearance of nearly a million dollars in charges.

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 I'm sure there's an obvious and excellent reason for it, but it just seemed unusual

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 and I would like to get some further information about it.

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 Good morning, Vispa Pantabong, ADF Finance.

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 So when we calculate these T-cost expenses, we actually net them.

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 So there's revenue coming in from the city, which are other TSP providers that are using

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 our assets.

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 And then the expenses that are going out, that's other TSP basically or that's us using

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 other TSP's assets.

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 So when we do the billing, it's net of revenue and expenses.

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 So with the ongoing rate case, so basically that affected the calculations and those two

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 particular TSP's were the one that basically changed.

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 Okay.

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 So these were simply the result of a recalculation based on ongoing charges and expenses.

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 If you recall Mr. Rybeck, we had already brought the majority of those forward about a month

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 ago or so.

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 Yes, sir.

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 And yeah, these were as a result of a recalculation basically.

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 Okay.

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 It's not necessarily a change in budget, it's a change in who gets the money from the T-cost,

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 correct?

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 Yes, correct.

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 Yes.

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 Not a change in budget.

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 And for some context in total, we're spending about 25, 26 million dollars now a year in

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 transmission costs to others that we pay out on an annual basis.

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 Okay.

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 So will this continue to happen then throughout the year as the last time there'll be an adjustment

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 since it's December?

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 Yeah.

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 There's ongoing rate cases that happen and so there's adjustments throughout the year,

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 certainly not as big as these, but yeah, those can happen and they're normal.

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 All right.

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 So we may continue to see these as the year goes on then.

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 Yeah, if they exceed the staff's authority that's been allocated -- not allocated, but

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 what's the word that I'm using for -- delegated to staff.

57
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 Okay.

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 What is that authority, just for my information?

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 I think that's 50,000.

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 Okay.

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 Okay.

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 Very good.

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 State law, correct?

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 Yes, correct.

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 50,000.

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 Thank you.

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 Mr. Chair, I move that we accept item A from the consent agenda.

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 We have a motion to approve by Mr. Ryback.

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 Second.

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 Second by Mr. Taylor.

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 All those in favor, please say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Aye.

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 Any opposed?

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 Passes unanimously.

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 Item C is in cat, Mr. Ryback.

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 Thank you.

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 So I was concerned about this not so much that it does exist or that it has a pretty

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 big dollar amount and I thought perhaps would be of value for us to learn a little more

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 about it.

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 Yes, sir.

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 Just about the credit card processing contract in general?

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 Sure.

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 This is a credit card contract for the entire city for all 25 locations, some odd give or

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 take, on the day that take credit cards over the phone, in person, or over the Internet.

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 We went out for bid in 2020.

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 We go out for bid every five years along with our depository contract.

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 We had three bids at that time and we started the contract in 2021 and it will end in 2026.

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 Historically, you know, we look at our past actuals and see what those have been and we

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 based our numbers for the contract on that.

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 And it just seems this year, in the last couple of years, we have increased our volumes across

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 the board from the city.

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 Customer service alone, we share these costs across the city based on their own volumes.

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 Customer service going from payment to invoice cloud allowed your customers to have a lot

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 of bells and whistles and other options to pay so it increased their adoption to their

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 credit card rate.

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 Also building safety.

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 They have a lot of construction and building going on so the permits have increased.

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 Also the landfill has seen a high increase in volume.

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 So our actual cost to the credit card processor stayed the same through the contract.

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 Our volumes have increased and it's the actual card brands and their interchange rates that

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 are increasing as well because they're allowed to increase every two times a year.

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 So it's just that volume just kept growing and growing.

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 So the last year of the contract, I am just not had enough money.

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 So we went ahead through the regular process and increased this as allowed by the purchasing

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 contract.

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 Okay.

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 So is this a new provider or is it the same provider with a different rate structure?

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 It is the same provider we've had the same provider for almost 10 years and Wells Fargo

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 Merchant Services and their rate stays the same.

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 It's the card brand interchange rates that go up and down.

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 So as a card holder, I can come one day and use my debit card and that's one rate and

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 I can come another day and use my reward card and that's another rate.

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 So all those variables playing in.

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 So our providers rate is the same.

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 It's just the cards that your card user actually using pushes through and that's a straight

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 pass through to the card brands.

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 So what we pay Wells Fargo Merchant Services is consistent, but what we pay the card brand

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 is based on their own interchange rates.

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 Okay.

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 So this is a net increase to our cost of doing business as a city.

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 Yes.

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 And each department budgets these.

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 So they have everybody has a bucket in there for their banking services, if you will.

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 So that's whether they put in cash in the bank, they're doing checks or they're doing cards.

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 So this will impact all departments budgets to some extent.

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 Yes.

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 But they've already budgeted for that slightly.

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 They look every year and do what they can to see what's coming.

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 Okay.

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 Yes, sir.

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 I don't have any further questions.

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 Okay.

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 Mr. Rainer.

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 So you said, good morning, you said that you look at this twice a year or is that when

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 they.

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 The card brands come out with new pricing structures twice a year.

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 And so we may be looking for a another price change of some sort the middle of next year.

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 No, sir.

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 They fluctuate.

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 So each card brand just kind of gives and takes, they may offer more rewards on a different

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 card or whatever.

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 So again, it's based on the card user use.

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 So the card brands go up and down twice a year.

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 They add more programs, they take away others.

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 So it really our fees are based on what our card holders are using day to day.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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 Thank you, Mr. Rainer.

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 Any other questions for item C. Seeing there are none, I'll entertain a motion to approve

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 item C of the consent agenda.

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 So moved.

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 Motion.

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 Second.

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 We have a second.

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 All those in favor, please say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Any opposed?

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 Passes unanimously.

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 Move on to item E, Edward, E isn't Edward.

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 My question regarding item E is I was, it caught my eye that there are two different

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 departments, one of which is Parks and Rec, where the Public Utility Board, and I'm just

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 curious about the implications between our civic duty and that of the Parks and Rec Board.

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 This equipment's going to them.

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 Hello, Tom Grammer, Director of Facilities and Fleet.

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 I don't know the answer to that question.

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 That seems like a financial question.

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 I'll be happy to get that answer and bring it back to the board.

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 Well, I think the reality is that when it comes to items that are not utility related,

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 the PUB does not have authority on that.

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 That usually goes straight to the City Council.

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 The Park Board does not have oversight of that either, so those expenditures go.

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 Just for ease of documentation, these were aggregated together.

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 Obviously, there's synergies in buying these diggers together in multiple quantities, but

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 that's really the only purpose.

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 And so really what's in front of the PUB is that they're diggers specific to DME only.

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 Okay.

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 But again, I just asked that question about if this equipment goes to Parks and Rec in

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 part or do the utilities own and operate the equipment?

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 There actually will be the Parks and Rec folks will have their own digger tool, if you will.

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 Yes.

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 Parks will have their own, I believe that.

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 We've set up two different accounts funded in one, so DME is paying for two, Parks is

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 paying for one.

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 But again, as Tony said, it's to buy three at the same time is easier and cheaper.

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 I think it's always useful to aggregate and get a better deal.

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 I'm just curious about our authority to suggest to the City Council that Parks and Rec buy

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 equipment and we're the ones doing the approving.

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 If it doesn't make any difference, that's fine, but I'm just curious about that.

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 I think this is the first time I've seen something where something's come before us that also

192
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 had to do with equipment for a different department or a different group.

193
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 Yeah.

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 This is not unlike what you've seen Public Works come out and they show you what they're

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 going to be doing in a neighborhood area for streets and sidewalks, but within those project

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 costs, you also have water, wastewater costs, you may have electric costs, and so this is

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 a very similar, it's all being brought at the same time.

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 There's economies of scale for why those are done at the same time.

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 There's also kind of an administrative component here, right, for us to have to separate out

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 just the DME component, now you're talking about a separate item, a separate agenda.

201
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 There's separate things that go with that, right?

202
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 So this is just from an administrative standpoint to make it a little bit easier for staff, right?

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 We bring to the PVB exactly what we're taking to the Council, even though some items may

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 not necessarily be within the authority of the Council, but it's just a little bit administrative,

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 a little bit easier for us to do it that way.

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 But all of the other things you've talked about with the sidewalks all still fall within

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 the utilities, wastewater, power, water, you know, those are all wastewater functions,

208
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,520
 not all public utility functions, I'm sorry.

209
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 They're probably worse functions, but the funding is different.

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 So the funding for the sidewalks, the funding for the streets is not coming for water and

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 wastewater.

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00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,840
 It's only the water/wastewater components that are coming for water/wastewater, of which

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 the Board has authority over.

214
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 Right, and the roads, of course, are roads and transportation, not utilities, so, okay.

215
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 Yeah, but streets is not considered a utility for purposes of the Board's authority.

216
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:39,680
 Okay, I don't think that answered my question, but I have a better understanding, thank you.

217
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:40,680
 Mr. Rayner?

218
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:44,240
 So, if I understand it, we're buying in bulk, which is fine.

219
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 Two departments, pardon, just to keep it simple, you're gonna get two, we get one, and we get

220
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 one, you get, or we get two and you get one, is that kind of how that works?

221
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:53,480
 Correct.

222
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 Okay, and who keeps it, you know, my neighbor borrowed my weed whacker and I'm still waiting

223
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 for it to come back, so, you understand my point?

224
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,120
 Absolutely, so when we purchase these vehicles, they're allocated to the departments through

225
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 our work order system and asset tracking.

226
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 The department takes responsibility throughout the life cycle of the vehicle or the asset,

227
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 so when we get this on site, it's identified as a DME asset, or the two DME assets would

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 be put under their purview and capitalized and everything else with DME, and then the

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 one would be put with parks and identified as a parks asset, so there would be no interchanging

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 of the assets.

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00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,080
 So, let's say you wear yours out, would it be, it seemed like it would be natural that

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 you would maybe contact us to borrow one of our diggers, would that be kind of how that

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 would work?

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 There's potential for that, obviously, however we can get the job done as fast as possible

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 to limit the impact of the operation, we would do that, but we don't make a common practice

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 to flip-flop assets on the long term.

237
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 Yes.

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 If we do, we'd have to make sure the financial implications of the backside are handled.

239
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 Thank you, appreciate it, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

240
00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:00,680
 Okay, thank you, that's just a follow-up question based on their questions, the account

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00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:04,680
 numbers that are listed here for the fiscal information, where do they fall under?

242
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,760
 One under public utilities and two under parks, is that correct?

243
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,200
 It should be two under DME and then one under parks, right Dave?

244
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,200
 That's correct.

245
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:13,200
 Two to one.

246
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,200
 Okay, it's the opposite of that.

247
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,800
 Okay, that answers my question, all right, any other questions?

248
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,840
 Seeing there is none, thank you.

249
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,760
 All those in favor of approving item E as in Edward?

250
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:28,760
 No.

251
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:34,320
 Oh, that's true, entertain a motion to approve item E.

252
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,520
 Move we approve item E.

253
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,520
 You have a motion?

254
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:37,520
 Second.

255
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,880
 We have a second.

256
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,320
 All those in favor, please say aye.

257
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,320
 Aye.

258
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,320
 Any opposed?

259
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:48,600
 There being none, it passes unanimously, so we can move on to item three, items for individual

260
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,520
 consideration.

261
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,800
 Consider approval of the November 13th, 2023 minutes.

262
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,240
 Move a motion for Mr. Plot?

263
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,240
 Second.

264
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,240
 Second, Mr. Taylor?

265
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,000
 All those in favor, please say aye.

266
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,000
 Aye.

267
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,000
 Any opposed?

268
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,000
 Passes unanimously.

269
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,040
 All right, item B, I believe there's gonna be some questions on this.

270
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:18,440
 We did take this up last week in a risk management team meeting and decided to take it from the

271
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:25,720
 consent to individual consideration, so we'll go ahead and start with board members with

272
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,200
 any questions.

273
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:34,200
 Billy, actually, we have a quick presentation, if you don't mind, and then we can have questions

274
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,200
 after that.

275
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,200
 Harry?

276
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,200
 From Mr. Terry Nolte.

277
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,400
 Good morning, Terry Nolte, Assistant General Manager, DME.

278
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:50,360
 So first question is what is outage insurance, and basically it's insurance that covers

279
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,480
 mechanical failures of the Denton Energy Center.

280
00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:01,040
 The way that this has worked in the past is that in order to have a valid claim, you have

281
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:08,200
 to have an outage of at least one unit, and the second unit starts the claim process.

282
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:17,960
 It pays the difference between the hourly wholesale price and the generation cost, so

283
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:26,840
 if the generation cost was $40 and the wholesale energy price was $100, it would pay $60 times

284
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:33,800
 the number of megawatt hours that were affected by the outage.

285
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,500
 And the premium is charged based on the payout limit.

286
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:44,040
 You know, the limits can be anywhere from -- yeah, usually the policy limits are anywhere

287
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:54,620
 from 10 to 25 million for the two-month winter period.

288
00:15:54,620 --> 00:16:03,700
 So the energy risk management policy is a policy that we follow in managing the overall

289
00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:08,420
 portfolio risk of the supply.

290
00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:15,720
 The energy risk management policy does require us to purchase this insurance for the winter.

291
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:23,120
 We have noticed through our procurement efforts that the premiums have gone up considerably,

292
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:28,460
 and the coverage has gone down.

293
00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:35,900
 So as we look at this winter, we view this winter as we see here on today, you know,

294
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:36,900
 December 11th.

295
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:40,060
 It's going to be 62 degrees today.

296
00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:46,420
 As we look at the weather forecast out the next month, we don't see any significant weather.

297
00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:53,940
 And it's El Nino winter, so we expect winter temperatures to be on average a little bit

298
00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:58,140
 warmer than normal.

299
00:16:58,140 --> 00:17:04,220
 We don't -- we don't discount the potential for really, really cold weather.

300
00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:10,260
 There could be -- as we are in Texas, it could be a couple days of extremely cold weather.

301
00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:13,900
 And -- but we estimate that probability.

302
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:19,340
 We do regression analysis down at less than 10 percent for those events that would cause

303
00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:23,020
 us significant concern.

304
00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:27,880
 When we have experienced a unit outage, there have been very -- it's really not well correlated

305
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:28,880
 with price.

306
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,220
 So it's not like when prices go to $100, that's when we have problems.

307
00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:37,980
 There's really -- it's very random.

308
00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:44,180
 There have been a number of changes in the market since URI that mitigate our risk.

309
00:17:44,180 --> 00:17:49,860
 The provision and the risk policy was put in place after URI to avoid the kind of catastrophic

310
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:54,280
 event that happened.

311
00:17:54,280 --> 00:18:00,580
 So we've seen the Texas pipeline weatherization effect, those -- all the gas compressor stations

312
00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:07,780
 on the line, all the dehydration units that feed into this particular line have been weatherized

313
00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:11,500
 and inspected by the -- by the Railroad Commission.

314
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:16,700
 Same thing on power generation units.

315
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:22,500
 The wholesale energy cap was reduced from $9,000 a megawatt hour down to $5,000, still

316
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:27,020
 a very steep price, but significant reduction.

317
00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:33,440
 And there have been other wholesale generation market changes that bring additional standby

318
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,040
 generation into play.

319
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:42,900
 So based on this, we are not recommending -- we purchased the winter outage insurance.

320
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:49,980
 We require a waiver of the provision of the energy risk management policy.

321
00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:55,860
 And we discussed this with the energy -- with the Energy Risk Committee last week, and they

322
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:58,660
 agreed with our recommendation.

323
00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:03,660
 And so with that, I'll be glad to have any questions, and I'd ask Marcella to explain

324
00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:09,900
 exactly what the action is that we're asking you for today because we have an item on there

325
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,020
 to approve a spending authority.

326
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:17,900
 Yes, so consistent with Robert's rules and our parliamentary requirements, we'll actually

327
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:21,660
 have someone motion in the affirmative, so just like you would normally motion for an

328
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:26,980
 IC item, you'll move to approve item B. That'll get seconded.

329
00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:30,780
 And then if you agree with staff's recommendation, the motion would fail, which would mean that

330
00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:33,620
 the item would not be recommended to city council.

331
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:38,540
 At city council, there's a second item that goes with this that's the actual waiver ordinance

332
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:43,100
 that would allow that waiver of those terms of the energy risk management policy.

333
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:48,300
 But in terms of this item, it would be a motion in the affirmative that would then fail.

334
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:51,660
 Motion in the affirmative that would then fail.

335
00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:54,660
 You know what you said?

336
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:55,660
 Yep.

337
00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:58,660
 I'm going to write that down.

338
00:19:58,660 --> 00:19:59,660
 Is it a motion and a vote in the affirmative?

339
00:19:59,660 --> 00:20:00,660
 It's not the vote.

340
00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:01,660
 No, the vote against.

341
00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:02,660
 And then discussion.

342
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:03,660
 And then we vote.

343
00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:09,540
 Yeah, so the motion would be just to approve item B. There would be a second for that to

344
00:20:09,540 --> 00:20:10,540
 allow for discussion.

345
00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:14,020
 Obviously, if you have staff questions before the motion, that could be handled before the

346
00:20:14,020 --> 00:20:15,860
 motion.

347
00:20:15,860 --> 00:20:17,580
 Discussion would happen normally.

348
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:24,100
 And then if you agree with staff's recommendation, you would vote no on approval of the item.

349
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:27,500
 We can't just have the recommendation be against.

350
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,180
 Okay, that's fine.

351
00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:34,740
 Yeah, so it's a quirky part of parliamentary procedure where motions have to be in the

352
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:35,740
 affirmative.

353
00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:36,740
 Okay.

354
00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:39,740
 Mr. Rainer, do you have a question?

355
00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:40,740
 No.

356
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:41,740
 You want to get your button?

357
00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:42,740
 No.

358
00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:43,740
 Okay.

359
00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:49,540
 So in my understanding, the discussion should be done after the motion has been seconded,

360
00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:50,540
 correct?

361
00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:53,820
 So there can be staff questions before the motion and the second, but discussion just

362
00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:56,420
 of the board members would be after motion and second.

363
00:20:56,420 --> 00:20:59,260
 But I could ask staff during -- after the motion has been made, though.

364
00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:00,260
 Yeah.

365
00:21:00,260 --> 00:21:01,260
 Okay, thank you.

366
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:02,260
 Or now.

367
00:21:02,260 --> 00:21:06,300
 Or yeah, you can ask your staff questions now as well.

368
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:09,900
 So I can ask a question at this time.

369
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:11,940
 You first.

370
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:12,940
 You may.

371
00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:13,940
 Thank you.

372
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:19,220
 I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about these changes to the wholesale

373
00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:24,740
 market that would make this an appealing thing for us to --

374
00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:26,060
 Sure.

375
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:32,020
 So in the wholesale market, we have what's called ancillary services, which are the services

376
00:21:32,020 --> 00:21:38,060
 that are required in order to keep the grid stable.

377
00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:46,620
 These are things like frequency, stability, non-spinning reserves, and we actually have

378
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:55,940
 a new one this year called ECRS, emergency reserve -- emergency capacity reserve service.

379
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:58,140
 That is a new product.

380
00:21:58,140 --> 00:22:05,820
 It is an online product that makes available about 1,900 megawatts of additional generation

381
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:09,180
 at all times during the winter months.

382
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:15,500
 So there are those changes, and then there are also some very detailed -- which I don't

383
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:21,980
 want to go into because we could spend hours discussing it -- changes to the overall, what

384
00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:35,620
 we call the ORDIC, which is an adder for during price spikes, a certain adder.

385
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:36,620
 Okay.

386
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:40,860
 So how is this additional dispatchable power made available?

387
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:48,780
 It's actually purchased in the day ahead market as are other of the ancillary services.

388
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:50,980
 What's that cost, Terry?

389
00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:56,420
 Well, it has traded up as high as $3,000, $4,000 a megawatt hour, but on average it's

390
00:22:56,420 --> 00:23:05,060
 been running this winter so far probably $10 to $25 a megawatt hour.

391
00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:13,340
 And that's just generation capacity that's held out of the market, of the real-time market

392
00:23:13,340 --> 00:23:19,020
 because it clears in the day ahead market, so it's a reserve that ERCOT has to call on

393
00:23:19,020 --> 00:23:25,420
 if they run into a period where there's not enough capacity.

394
00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:29,020
 So it's ERCOT's reserve, not DME's and other utilities' reserves?

395
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:30,020
 That's correct.

396
00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:34,860
 Yeah, and then I guess, Mr. Rybeck, the other big change is that we now have, since Jury,

397
00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:42,660
 a firm fuel program where there are 32 units that have qualified that have backup fuel

398
00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:48,060
 oil to generate with instead of relying 100% on gas.

399
00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:49,060
 Not ours.

400
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:50,580
 Not ours, right, correct.

401
00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:57,020
 The deck is not configured to run on fuel oil.

402
00:23:57,020 --> 00:24:04,020
 So overall, there's just been a lot of changes made over the last three years to avoid that

403
00:24:04,020 --> 00:24:05,020
 Jury scenario.

404
00:24:05,020 --> 00:24:06,020
 Okay.

405
00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:08,380
 Mr. Taylor, I believe that's a follow-up.

406
00:24:08,380 --> 00:24:21,340
 Just trying to understand, will not purchasing this policy affect the planned operation for

407
00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:22,340
 January, February?

408
00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:23,340
 No.

409
00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:27,300
 So it won't change operational or forward purchase or any of that kind of stuff?

410
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:28,300
 No, sir.

411
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,220
 Okay, so we just think the risk is not as big as the cost?

412
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:33,220
 Really?

413
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:34,220
 Yes, sir.

414
00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:36,260
 We don't believe it's a cost-effective purchase.

415
00:24:36,260 --> 00:24:37,820
 Okay, cost-effective.

416
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:44,060
 We've had the policy in place for three years, three winter, actually two winters since Jury,

417
00:24:44,060 --> 00:24:47,300
 and we've never had a claim.

418
00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:51,860
 And as you can see, the amount that we were requesting was over $900,000.

419
00:24:51,860 --> 00:24:59,620
 So we believe that's a good savings for customers and we can manage the risk in the real time

420
00:24:59,620 --> 00:25:03,780
 and into the balance of the month, balance of the week markets.

421
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:11,820
 Okay, so does the DEC participate in ECRS right now or just--

422
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:13,180
 Yes, we have in the past.

423
00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:14,260
 It's an online product.

424
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:20,340
 So if the units are running, we can participate and we do when we see that to be a premium

425
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:21,340
 product.

426
00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:22,340
 Okay.

427
00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:25,660
 And can we self-provide?

428
00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:26,660
 We can.

429
00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:27,660
 Okay.

430
00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:30,260
 We don't normally, but we can.

431
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:35,300
 And as a reminder, you may recall that for the summer months, we also did not purchase

432
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,700
 outage insurance for a lot of the same reasons.

433
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:44,300
 And if you saw in this first slide, the biggest coverage that's no longer there is the loss

434
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:47,580
 of fuel, right, which was the number one issue that we had during the year.

435
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:48,780
 That's no longer covered, right?

436
00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:52,500
 That was really the incentive for us to want to have the outage insurance to begin with.

437
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:54,940
 But I just want to point those out.

438
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:55,940
 Thank you.

439
00:25:55,940 --> 00:26:02,180
 Another thing, since the event, I know there was a plan to weatherize the DEC or improve

440
00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:05,220
 its weather withstanding capabilities.

441
00:26:05,220 --> 00:26:08,740
 Has that been implemented and completed?

442
00:26:08,740 --> 00:26:11,300
 As it relates to this, yes.

443
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:20,060
 I don't want to get off posting, but yes, we have-- in fact, we're constructing that

444
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:26,980
 equipment now, we've put in some temporary systems to achieve the same goals that that

445
00:26:26,980 --> 00:26:32,340
 overall program, and we'll have it actually completed sometime in the first quarter of

446
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:33,340
 next year.

447
00:26:33,340 --> 00:26:34,340
 Okay.

448
00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:39,380
 So we've significantly reduced our risk regarding the DEC as well.

449
00:26:39,380 --> 00:26:40,380
 The few-- yeah.

450
00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:43,140
 The risk as it relates to a loss of fuel, correct?

451
00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:44,140
 Yes.

452
00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:45,140
 Thank you.

453
00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:46,140
 Okay.

454
00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:50,240
 I think y'all have asked the two questions I was going to ask, but let me clarify.

455
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:56,420
 And there are two very simple items to me that make me think this may not be worth it,

456
00:26:56,420 --> 00:26:57,420
 the insurance.

457
00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:04,620
 And one of them is the cause of the last outage, the initial cause of it, granted, that did

458
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:11,020
 for some other actions or some other consequences, was the loss of gas by another party.

459
00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:12,020
 That's correct.

460
00:27:12,020 --> 00:27:13,020
 It's not covered.

461
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:14,020
 Yes, sir.

462
00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:19,580
 So if that loss of gas causes the equipment failures at the plant, that's not covered

463
00:27:19,580 --> 00:27:20,580
 either.

464
00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:21,580
 That's correct.

465
00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:22,580
 Okay.

466
00:27:22,580 --> 00:27:30,500
 Number two, you have done-- as Mr. Rebick just asked, you have done the upgrades that

467
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:36,060
 have given us a larger temperature range on the negative side, correct?

468
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:42,460
 We're not completed with the total capital program, but we have put in place a temporary

469
00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:46,580
 solution for this winter that achieves the same objectives.

470
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:48,940
 Which is what temperature?

471
00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:50,100
 I can't divulge that.

472
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:51,100
 Estimated.

473
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:52,100
 Okay.

474
00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:53,100
 Okay.

475
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:54,100
 It's a--

476
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:56,100
 Is it proprietary, I guess?

477
00:27:56,100 --> 00:28:02,100
 Yeah, it's a competitive matter that's protected, but it is much better.

478
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:03,100
 Okay.

479
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:04,100
 Yeah.

480
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:05,100
 All right.

481
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:06,100
 Yes, Mr. Rainey.

482
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,700
 Now that I know what we're going to do, I still want to ask my question.

483
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:18,740
 On the chart that I got, I was just curious when we-- 2017 when we had that cold and all,

484
00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:23,660
 how many-- first of all, do we have 12 units, or was this just a chart showing two through

485
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:27,940
 12 units that-- what the cost would be and such?

486
00:28:27,940 --> 00:28:28,940
 Yes, sir.

487
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:33,340
 We-- the deck is configured with 12, 18.75 megawatt units.

488
00:28:33,340 --> 00:28:41,020
 So back when everything froze up, how many units did we have affected?

489
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:45,820
 Well, when we lost gas, we had no fuel, so we couldn't run any of the units.

490
00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:46,820
 Everybody was.

491
00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:51,380
 Yeah, so we lost fuel for about 24 hours.

492
00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:58,960
 That when we recovered the fuel back, because of the damage, we were only able to run about

493
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:05,220
 8 of the 16 units-- or the 12 units, I'm sorry, 8 of 12 units.

494
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:06,220
 Just historical.

495
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:07,220
 I was just curious.

496
00:29:07,220 --> 00:29:12,900
 Yeah, and just as a reminder, the damage that we were talking about was really primarily

497
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:18,940
 to the radiators that were outside, so there was some minor damage to the engines themselves

498
00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:25,620
 too, but it was really the radiators that froze up that were the big issue for us.

499
00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:32,340
 So by not getting this-- excuse me-- when we vote, if we choose whatever we're going

500
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:33,340
 to choose--

501
00:29:33,340 --> 00:29:34,340
 Very good.

502
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:42,300
 --then if this should happen again, we're going to pull money somewhere to take care

503
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:43,300
 of that then.

504
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:50,500
 Yes, we carry a reserve balance, fund balance that we hate to draw on, but if we had to,

505
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,780
 we could draw on that fund balance to cover any cover damages.

506
00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:55,780
 Yes.

507
00:29:55,780 --> 00:29:56,780
 Fair enough.

508
00:29:56,780 --> 00:29:57,780
 Thank you for your time.

509
00:29:57,780 --> 00:29:58,780
 We've got it.

510
00:29:58,780 --> 00:29:59,780
 Yeah, something else?

511
00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:00,780
 Nope.

512
00:30:00,780 --> 00:30:01,780
 Oh, OK.

513
00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:11,380
 I move approval of item C, B. I'm sorry, item B.

514
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:12,380
 Second.

515
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:19,060
 Very precarious motion affirmative in a second for item B.

516
00:30:19,060 --> 00:30:20,060
 Discussion.

517
00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:27,700
 I know what this costs is, but this is a million dollars for a few months policy when we've

518
00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:32,700
 mitigated most of the risk, and this doesn't address the biggest risk that we've experienced

519
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:37,900
 in the past of fuel outage and potential damage after fuel outage.

520
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:43,940
 So for those reasons, it doesn't seem like a cost-effective option.

521
00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:45,220
 I agree.

522
00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:49,860
 After such a thorough discussion of explanation, even though I did second it, I probably will

523
00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:52,540
 be voting against the motion.

524
00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:53,540
 OK.

525
00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:57,460
 Is there any further discussion on this item?

526
00:30:57,460 --> 00:31:02,900
 Because if you-- let's be clear, if we vote affirmative on this item, we pass the existing--

527
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:08,740
 we vote to recommend that council passes with the insurance policy in effect, correct?

528
00:31:08,740 --> 00:31:17,100
 If we vote against it, if we vote nay, then we're voting to not pass this, and there is

529
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:21,140
 another choice for council to pass that gives that option.

530
00:31:21,140 --> 00:31:22,140
 Correct.

531
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:23,140
 OK.

532
00:31:23,140 --> 00:31:30,380
 Can we have a flowchart back there?

533
00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:34,500
 I need an AI bot to retype that sentence.

534
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:35,860
 OK.

535
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:46,540
 All those in favor of passing the current item, please say aye.

536
00:31:46,540 --> 00:31:47,540
 Any opposed?

537
00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:48,780
 Vote nay.

538
00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:49,780
 Nay.

539
00:31:49,780 --> 00:31:50,780
 Nay.

540
00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:52,340
 It fails unanimously.

541
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:53,340
 OK.

542
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:54,340
 Oh.

543
00:31:54,340 --> 00:31:55,340
 Such a message.

544
00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:56,340
 I know it.

545
00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:57,340
 And Mr. Wendel.

546
00:31:57,340 --> 00:32:03,180
 Mr. Chair, we'll notify the council tomorrow as part of the presentation to let them know

547
00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:06,120
 the PB's recommendations, just like we did to you with the risk committee.

548
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,900
 So the council will be informed.

549
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,380
 Play the tape.

550
00:32:12,380 --> 00:32:13,380
 Yeah.

551
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:17,020
 OK, so what are we saying here?

552
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:18,020
 Gosh.

553
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:19,020
 OK.

554
00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:24,500
 Well, that is B. We have item C, which are management reports.

555
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:25,500
 Mr. Puente.

556
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:30,660
 Mr. Chair, members of the PB, I'm going to try not to confuse you all too much here.

557
00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:36,220
 So the first item that you have per management report is just your upcoming 2024 schedule.

558
00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:42,260
 So our hope is that you don't have any issues with those dates, but if you do, please let

559
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:43,900
 us know so we can look for alternate dates.

560
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,500
 I don't think there's any action that the board needs to take there.

561
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:50,900
 We just want to make you aware of what those dates are for this coming year.

562
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:52,620
 OK.

563
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:57,460
 There was an email that came out that Kim sent out about changing to the first and the third

564
00:32:57,460 --> 00:33:00,740
 from the second and the fourth.

565
00:33:00,740 --> 00:33:01,740
 Just for May only?

566
00:33:01,740 --> 00:33:04,380
 Is that because Memorial-- I mean, Labor-- which one is it?

567
00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:05,380
 What?

568
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:06,380
 Memorial Day?

569
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:07,380
 Labor Day?

570
00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:08,380
 Memorial Day.

571
00:33:08,380 --> 00:33:09,380
 Sorry.

572
00:33:09,380 --> 00:33:10,380
 Sorry, veterans.

573
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:14,460
 Because those are listed as May 6th and May 20th.

574
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:17,140
 Those dates are OK, but yeah.

575
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:18,140
 OK.

576
00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:19,140
 OK.

577
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:25,820
 Well, if you do have some issues with those dates, please let Kim and myself know at this

578
00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:26,820
 point.

579
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:27,820
 This should be the schedule.

580
00:33:27,820 --> 00:33:30,740
 I think Kim will send out calendar appointments, I believe, for that.

581
00:33:30,740 --> 00:33:38,380
 So the next item that we have, this is a request from Mr. Rybak regarding Proposition 7, what's

582
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:42,100
 called the Texas Energy Fund.

583
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:46,580
 Terry and Andrew Keifer, that's kind of our legislative person, helped put this together.

584
00:33:46,580 --> 00:33:50,940
 Certainly, if you have any questions, Terry's here, or I'll try to respond as well.

585
00:33:50,940 --> 00:33:52,580
 If there's any questions on that memo.

586
00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:57,940
 Since I requested the memo, I read it, and I am satisfied that I better understand it.

587
00:33:57,940 --> 00:33:58,940
 Thank you.

588
00:33:58,940 --> 00:33:59,940
 I have a question.

589
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:03,620
 Mr. Rybak?

590
00:34:03,620 --> 00:34:08,320
 I was reading the portion about potential impact to the City of Denton and Denton Municipal

591
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:14,240
 Electricity question mark, and I read in here where the event that the DME determines the

592
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:20,740
 need for and achieves approval to construct additional dispatchable generation, our analysis

593
00:34:20,740 --> 00:34:23,140
 is acceptable to the program, yada, yada, yada.

594
00:34:23,140 --> 00:34:28,140
 My question was, though, and achieve approval to consent.

595
00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:35,980
 So this is not a given that we would get any portion of the $1.8 billion.

596
00:34:35,980 --> 00:34:41,740
 So the intention of that paragraph was to let you know that before we would make any

597
00:34:41,740 --> 00:34:49,660
 commitment to even apply to the fund for funding, or for the early completion bonus, we would

598
00:34:49,660 --> 00:34:52,980
 need to have your approval and City Council's approval.

599
00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:55,420
 So that is the consent that we're referring to.

600
00:34:55,420 --> 00:34:57,420
 Oh, I thought you were...

601
00:34:57,420 --> 00:35:02,300
 I do have a question, but I'm just...

602
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:03,300
 Oh, okay.

603
00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:09,740
 So we need to initiate the request, obviously, unless you're going to pass it on to everybody,

604
00:35:09,740 --> 00:35:11,100
 but then we have...

605
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,900
 So there's procedures and such that we would need to follow.

606
00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:18,260
 Now, does that come before us before that money is asked for?

607
00:35:18,260 --> 00:35:19,260
 Yes, sir.

608
00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:28,140
 So later this early next quarter, sometime in the first quarter of 2024, we'll be bringing

609
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:34,460
 to this body and to the City Council a revised Denton Renewable Resource Plan.

610
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:44,040
 That plan will discuss our future power supply portfolio, which may or may not include additional

611
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,220
 dispatchable generation.

612
00:35:46,220 --> 00:35:51,220
 If it does include dispatchable generation, is that our recommendation?

613
00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:56,820
 It would require approval of both the PUB and the council before we would make any application

614
00:35:56,820 --> 00:35:58,260
 to this fund.

615
00:35:58,260 --> 00:36:00,460
 And is it a grant type thing and we pay it back?

616
00:36:00,460 --> 00:36:01,460
 No, it's a loan.

617
00:36:01,460 --> 00:36:02,460
 It's a loan.

618
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:03,460
 Yes, sir.

619
00:36:03,460 --> 00:36:04,460
 And is it at the 3% such as the other?

620
00:36:04,460 --> 00:36:05,460
 Yes, sir.

621
00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:06,460
 Okay.

622
00:36:06,460 --> 00:36:12,220
 So the capital program, let's just say it was a $200 million investment, you could borrow

623
00:36:12,220 --> 00:36:23,220
 the $200 million at 3% and then under the provisions of the law, House Bill 2627, there

624
00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:28,780
 would be an early completion bonus if you were able to complete the unit by, I believe

625
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:30,660
 it's the middle of 2027.

626
00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:31,660
 Yes.

627
00:36:31,660 --> 00:36:32,660
 Six.

628
00:36:32,660 --> 00:36:33,660
 Six.

629
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:35,740
 Six, yeah, that's right.

630
00:36:35,740 --> 00:36:40,940
 That would be paid back, that completion bonus is actually paid back over time.

631
00:36:40,940 --> 00:36:48,440
 So it would be actually after the units had been on for a year or better, then you would

632
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:57,540
 receive funds, just a cash disbursement from the energy fund to cover a portion of that

633
00:36:57,540 --> 00:36:59,220
 capital investment.

634
00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:04,820
 You'd then restructure your loan because your loan value would be significantly lower

635
00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:13,460
 and you'd owe the fund than that interest and principal payment on the remaining balance.

636
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:14,460
 Thank you.

637
00:37:14,460 --> 00:37:15,460
 Thank you, man.

638
00:37:15,460 --> 00:37:20,940
 I just want to point out real quick, so we were trying to respond to the question.

639
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:23,720
 This is still hypothetical, right?

640
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:27,820
 If we were to do this, we would qualify, I think that we were trying to satisfy the question

641
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:28,820
 that was asked.

642
00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:34,380
 At this point, we're not making a recommendation to invest in additional dispatchable generation

643
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:38,060
 and, again, we're still looking at that as part of the Denver Renewable Resource Plan.

644
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:43,020
 We will bring back to the PAB, to the council, different options and kind of a menu of things

645
00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:45,420
 that we could potentially do going forward.

646
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:50,820
 But as you guys know, we are in a very fast-growing community with a lot of different needs.

647
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:59,860
 We have increasing electric load that we're serving in a very unstable market.

648
00:37:59,860 --> 00:38:04,740
 So, again, I just want to make that very clear that this does not mean that we're going

649
00:38:04,740 --> 00:38:07,900
 to go and construct a new generation facility.

650
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:16,220
 Yeah, I'll also point out, Tony, that there are a number of regulatory changes that are

651
00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:18,460
 coming down the road.

652
00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:23,340
 Those regulations are being developed right now to try to restructure the market in order

653
00:38:23,340 --> 00:38:31,580
 to respond to the fact that we now are a heavily dominated market by wind and solar.

654
00:38:31,580 --> 00:38:38,500
 And so there may be new requirements imposed on all utilities across all generating utilities.

655
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:41,140
 I should get my terminology right.

656
00:38:41,140 --> 00:38:49,140
 All load-serving entities like DME to have a level of dispatchable generation to back

657
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:53,760
 up the intermittency associated with that wind and solar.

658
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,740
 That is not the case today.

659
00:38:55,740 --> 00:38:58,580
 Those regulations are under development.

660
00:38:58,580 --> 00:39:05,640
 But should they come into place, that coupled with what Tony talked about, there is a potential

661
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:11,440
 that we could recommend, and again, it's purely hypothetical, but we could recommend additional

662
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,580
 dispatchable generation.

663
00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:17,540
 And are only dispatchable options natural gas?

664
00:39:17,540 --> 00:39:22,060
 Do we have any other alternatives for dispatchable generation?

665
00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:25,960
 Depends again on the problem that you're solving for.

666
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,780
 So if it's more than a two-hour period that you would need to back up, to back up that

667
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:41,220
 intermittency, then yes, I think cost-effectively, natural gas would be the way to go.

668
00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:46,340
 Obviously, there's batteries for a couple hours and there's nuclear energy and all kinds

669
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:51,860
 of other options out there, but conventional wisdom would say gas.

670
00:39:51,860 --> 00:40:00,780
 Well, and one final thing in response to your question, even in that situation, you could

671
00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:08,620
 still enter into a PPA with a generator without you necessarily having to build your own.

672
00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:13,580
 And so it's just a different way to still get there if you need to get there.

673
00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:21,380
 Thank you, I just had a few hypothetical questions on timeline.

674
00:40:21,380 --> 00:40:31,340
 So there seems to be two steps in the memo references, two deadlines for the completion

675
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:32,340
 bonus.

676
00:40:32,340 --> 00:40:37,540
 June 2026 and then June 2029.

677
00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:50,340
 If, what would be the expected timeline to install once approved reciprocating dispatchable

678
00:40:50,340 --> 00:40:51,340
 generation?

679
00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:56,220
 So conventional peaking generation, whether it's resip engines like we have at the deck

680
00:40:56,220 --> 00:41:02,180
 or whether it's arrow derivatives, probably a two-year build cycle.

681
00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:08,540
 So you'd have to do the engineering design ahead of that, but an expedited build would

682
00:41:08,540 --> 00:41:11,780
 be 18 months, but that would be tough.

683
00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:20,940
 So June 2026 would be very aggressive for any entity unless they've already designed

684
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:24,180
 it.

685
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:29,140
 We didn't try to go into a lot of detail here, obviously there's a bunch of nuances, but

686
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:40,340
 in the legislation itself, there is the ability to push out that June 2026 date due to equipment,

687
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:44,420
 supply chain issues and other reasons that could be pushed out as well.

688
00:41:44,420 --> 00:41:51,020
 The state clearly wants additional dispatchable generation and they want to deploy this money

689
00:41:51,020 --> 00:41:58,460
 in order to incentivize either private entities, public entities, whoever wants to build that

690
00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:03,020
 generation, that's what the money was allocated for.

691
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:04,020
 Thank you.

692
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:05,020
 Thanks.

693
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:06,020
 You got another one?

694
00:42:06,020 --> 00:42:12,340
 Yeah, so I assume that in the event that we should decide in the future to make this decision

695
00:42:12,340 --> 00:42:20,460
 that we're competing with the private manufacturers or generators of electricity as well to get

696
00:42:20,460 --> 00:42:28,780
 this money that's potentially available to us, we've got limited supply resource availability

697
00:42:28,780 --> 00:42:32,940
 and probably a very limited labor market of skilled workers who can do this.

698
00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:36,080
 So I'm assuming this is an early bird gets the worm type thing.

699
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:42,220
 Are we moving quickly with the potential idea to make another --

700
00:42:42,220 --> 00:42:44,380
 Yeah, I guess --

701
00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:46,580
 Yeah, I get what I'm saying here.

702
00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:48,580
 To inform the council.

703
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:54,360
 So we will be bringing a definitive recommendation sometime in the first quarter of next year

704
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,360
 regarding this.

705
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,700
 And that's kind of where I'd prefer to leave it at this point.

706
00:42:58,700 --> 00:42:59,700
 Okay.

707
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:05,180
 Yeah, that's maybe another thing that's private to, I guess, that discussion.

708
00:43:05,180 --> 00:43:06,180
 Obviously, yeah.

709
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:12,380
 Any decisions that we make about that would be competitive matters and be protected from

710
00:43:12,380 --> 00:43:13,660
 public disclosure.

711
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:14,660
 Okay.

712
00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:19,820
 So going on to the next item, here is future agenda items.

713
00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:27,220
 Just want to make you aware that at our January 8th meeting, we will be looking to elect new

714
00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:30,540
 officers for the board.

715
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,220
 So kind of please start thinking about that.

716
00:43:33,220 --> 00:43:38,380
 As you know, right now we have our chair is Susan, Parker Billy is our vice chair.

717
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:42,620
 And I thought that Barbara was our --

718
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:43,620
 I think so.

719
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:44,620
 Barbara was our secretary.

720
00:43:44,620 --> 00:43:45,620
 But so --

721
00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:50,140
 Did we put you in places, secretary?

722
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:51,140
 Okay.

723
00:43:51,140 --> 00:43:54,140
 I thought we put somebody --

724
00:43:54,140 --> 00:43:55,140
 Well --

725
00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:57,260
 I thought we put somebody in places.

726
00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:58,860
 I think we probably did.

727
00:43:58,860 --> 00:44:05,100
 But on January 8th, we will reelect -- we'll elect new PAV officers then.

728
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:06,100
 Okay.

729
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:07,100
 So just kind of be thinking about it.

730
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:09,140
 I wanted to give you -- give you that heads up.

731
00:44:09,140 --> 00:44:14,440
 And then on the new business action items, obviously we've provided to you the memo today

732
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,120
 on the SB7.

733
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:26,100
 We have on tab to give you a memo for the first meeting in January, I believe, as well,

734
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:30,540
 a response to the third-party software.

735
00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:35,140
 And then the only item that we have left, which we committed to do a year from the day

736
00:44:35,140 --> 00:44:40,820
 that it was requested, come back with some information on where we are with EVs versus

737
00:44:40,820 --> 00:44:42,160
 combustion engine vehicles.

738
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,860
 So those are the items that we have left for you.

739
00:44:45,860 --> 00:44:47,900
 Mr. Reiner?

740
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:51,140
 I thought it was interesting.

741
00:44:51,140 --> 00:44:54,820
 Mr. Rybeck was asking about that third party.

742
00:44:54,820 --> 00:45:00,780
 And then shortly after our meeting, in the news, the North Texas Municipal Water District

743
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:07,140
 was hit with ransomware, and over 2 million people didn't have water, and it was due to

744
00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:08,700
 a third party.

745
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:16,380
 So I really hope that when we get to this, would you review that as well as to the importance

746
00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:18,540
 of, what, keeping it in-house?

747
00:45:18,540 --> 00:45:22,380
 Is that how you phrased it last time?

748
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:27,140
 So the plan that we've discussed with our IT directors, we're going to give you a memo.

749
00:45:27,140 --> 00:45:33,540
 We hope the memo satisfies the question, but if it doesn't, as part of your agenda, we

750
00:45:33,540 --> 00:45:37,980
 will be able to go into closed session if we need to, if you have more specific information

751
00:45:37,980 --> 00:45:42,340
 that we don't want to be disclosing in public regarding some of the efforts when it comes

752
00:45:42,340 --> 00:45:45,500
 to cybersecurity and just general security of software.

753
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:51,780
 But my hope is that the memo that Alicia will be crafting will satisfy the question.

754
00:45:51,780 --> 00:45:54,740
 And I don't mean to-- thank you.

755
00:45:54,740 --> 00:45:59,760
 I just thought, since we have an example of it, I'd like for you all to at least review

756
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,980
 that to see if there was anything that-- make sure that we're not retracing a potential

757
00:46:04,980 --> 00:46:06,460
 problem that they ran into.

758
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:07,460
 Yes, sir.

759
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:12,980
 I'll let Alicia know, but unfortunately, that's not the only example that's gone on.

760
00:46:12,980 --> 00:46:17,420
 Oh, I just made my radar, because it happened a week after we talked about this, and here

761
00:46:17,420 --> 00:46:18,420
 we are.

762
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:19,420
 It's in Texas.

763
00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:20,420
 Thank you.

764
00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:21,420
 Yeah.

765
00:46:21,420 --> 00:46:22,420
 Appreciate your time.

766
00:46:22,420 --> 00:46:23,420
 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

767
00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:24,420
 I have a question.

768
00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:27,500
 I have a question regarding officers, two parts.

769
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:32,540
 One, Barbara has been on the board, and she had not been reappointed.

770
00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:33,740
 Is that correct?

771
00:46:33,740 --> 00:46:35,100
 She didn't want to be reappointed.

772
00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:36,180
 She did not wish to be reappointed.

773
00:46:36,180 --> 00:46:37,740
 I believe that's the case.

774
00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:42,620
 So if we're going to elect officers, who else needs to be reappointed?

775
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:45,980
 Because I think I'm up next year, but I'm not 100% sure.

776
00:46:45,980 --> 00:46:46,980
 Does anyone know?

777
00:46:46,980 --> 00:46:48,340
 We used to carry that on here.

778
00:46:48,340 --> 00:46:52,340
 I guess it's not-- and we would just come out with a normal--

779
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:53,340
 Yeah.

780
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:56,540
 We can-- we probably don't have the information right now, but we can certainly get that to

781
00:46:56,540 --> 00:47:02,460
 you to let you know who's termed out or needs to be reappointed.

782
00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:03,820
 When's our next meeting?

783
00:47:03,820 --> 00:47:04,820
 Is it January?

784
00:47:04,820 --> 00:47:05,820
 January.

785
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:06,820
 OK.

786
00:47:06,820 --> 00:47:07,820
 When we're supposed to vote.

787
00:47:07,820 --> 00:47:08,820
 Right.

788
00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:13,540
 And if you'd like, we can put a memo together and put that as part of the management update

789
00:47:13,540 --> 00:47:14,540
 to make everyone aware.

790
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:20,540
 I'd like to get an update before we have our next meeting, if at all possible.

791
00:47:20,540 --> 00:47:21,540
 Yeah, right.

792
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:22,540
 Yeah.

793
00:47:22,540 --> 00:47:23,540
 OK.

794
00:47:23,540 --> 00:47:24,540
 So we'll send it out to you.

795
00:47:24,540 --> 00:47:25,540
 And we still lack a seventh member.

796
00:47:25,540 --> 00:47:26,540
 Is that correct?

797
00:47:26,540 --> 00:47:27,540
 Correct.

798
00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:31,940
 But that person hasn't been appointed yet, correct?

799
00:47:31,940 --> 00:47:32,940
 That's correct.

800
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:35,780
 There still hasn't been a nomination for that position.

801
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:36,780
 OK.

802
00:47:36,780 --> 00:47:40,980
 Do we know which city council member needs to make that?

803
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:43,180
 I think it's the mayor, I believe.

804
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:44,180
 Yeah.

805
00:47:44,180 --> 00:47:45,180
 OK.

806
00:47:45,180 --> 00:47:46,180
 Very good.

807
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:47,180
 Thank you.

808
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:48,180
 All right.

809
00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:53,660
 There doesn't appear to be any more questions on items for individual consideration, so

810
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:55,700
 we'll move on to concluding items.

811
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:58,620
 Do I need to read this?

812
00:47:58,620 --> 00:47:59,620
 No.

813
00:47:59,620 --> 00:48:00,620
 OK.

814
00:48:00,620 --> 00:48:04,660
 We're going into work session for item A, which is receive a report, hold a discussion,

815
00:48:04,660 --> 00:48:08,420
 and give staff direction regarding updates to the city of Denton criteria manuals.

816
00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:13,700
 Yeah, Mr. Chair, unfortunately, that item, we're going to have to pull that item.

817
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:18,700
 Today, there's a couple of issues that came up, and so we're asking to pull that item.

818
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:20,820
 We'll have that today for you.

819
00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:21,820
 OK.

820
00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:22,820
 So we'll just have B.

821
00:48:22,820 --> 00:48:23,820
 All right.

822
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:24,820
 Pulled that one.

823
00:48:24,820 --> 00:48:27,540
 So now we have B, which is receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction

824
00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:36,940
 regarding the final wastewater master plan.

825
00:48:36,940 --> 00:48:38,460
 And I love design criteria.

826
00:48:38,460 --> 00:48:44,020
 I was hoping we'd get to discuss that.

827
00:48:44,020 --> 00:48:52,580
 Morning, I'm Kyle Pettico, I'm the water utilities planning and engineering manager.

828
00:48:52,580 --> 00:48:58,960
 So today, I'm going to give the third update on our wastewater master plan project.

829
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,500
 This will also be the final update before we bring it forward for approval.

830
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:08,420
 So first, I'm going to go over the phasing and growth, then the five-year capital improvement

831
00:49:08,420 --> 00:49:13,220
 projects that we have listed in the Hickory Creek and Clear Creek basins.

832
00:49:13,220 --> 00:49:16,760
 And then we'll review the next steps.

833
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,520
 So the phasing and growth hasn't changed throughout these updates.

834
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,940
 So in our zero to five-year window, we're anticipating an 8.1% growth rate to bring

835
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:30,940
 our population up to around 223,000 people.

836
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:36,860
 In the five-year to 10-year window, we're anticipating right around a 3.5% growth rate

837
00:49:36,860 --> 00:49:40,620
 to bring us up to 265,000.

838
00:49:40,620 --> 00:49:45,700
 And then in the 10-year to 25-year window, we're anticipating right around a 2% growth

839
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,180
 rate to bring us up to 357,000.

840
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:49,180
 Question.

841
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:50,180
 Yes.

842
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:54,500
 The population that you're using here, does that include all customers or just the city

843
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:55,500
 of Dinton?

844
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:56,500
 All customers.

845
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:57,500
 Okay.

846
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:58,500
 Yes.

847
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:02,180
 So in some of these areas, that includes our MUDs and the other development out to the

848
00:50:02,180 --> 00:50:05,180
 west of the city.

849
00:50:05,180 --> 00:50:06,180
 Okay.

850
00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:16,740
 Continuing on, kind of similar vein, if you go back a slide, so you've indicated developments

851
00:50:16,740 --> 00:50:22,520
 basically on the map that correspond to the timeline.

852
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:23,520
 So we have five-year.

853
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:30,740
 These are developments probably underway now or starting very soon, then a 10-year to 25-year.

854
00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:34,940
 There are likely to be developments that we don't yet know about.

855
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:41,340
 So is that, I assume these are only the developments that have reached planning staff?

856
00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:42,340
 Yes.

857
00:50:42,340 --> 00:50:47,020
 These are all the developments that we know about on the horizon.

858
00:50:47,020 --> 00:50:51,500
 And what we've kind of done throughout this process, the way the growth starts pretty

859
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:56,500
 quickly and tapers off, it shows the initial development and then the fill-in of those

860
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:57,500
 developments.

861
00:50:57,500 --> 00:51:03,940
 Like if you see in the southwest portion, the Hunter and Coal area, as those grow out.

862
00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:06,740
 So we've included all of them that we do know about.

863
00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:13,740
 And I believe there's a small factor of safety in there to accommodate any that we don't.

864
00:51:13,740 --> 00:51:14,740
 Okay.

865
00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:22,820
 And it's likely that come 2027 or 2028, there will be new developments that are beginning

866
00:51:22,820 --> 00:51:23,820
 that process.

867
00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:30,740
 So this slowing curve is more likely to be a straight line or linear growth?

868
00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:34,340
 It will probably still slow as areas get developed.

869
00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:37,740
 The development naturally slows down just because there's less developable land.

870
00:51:37,740 --> 00:51:40,020
 So it still will maintain that shape.

871
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:45,500
 It might extend that, you know, that 8% growth rate by another couple of years if there's

872
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:50,360
 developments, you know, like you said, that either happen quicker that we're not aware

873
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,360
 of currently.

874
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,360
 Okay.

875
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:53,360
 Thank you.

876
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:54,360
 I have a question.

877
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,900
 It appears some of those areas you note are outside the city limits.

878
00:51:57,900 --> 00:51:58,900
 Yes.

879
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:01,380
 So this includes all of our customers.

880
00:52:01,380 --> 00:52:10,820
 So any MUDs, any, you know, not just within the City of Denton, but City of Denton water

881
00:52:10,820 --> 00:52:12,580
 utilities customers.

882
00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:18,020
 So the city's wastewater and I assume water and power are serving customers who are outside

883
00:52:18,020 --> 00:52:19,900
 the actual city limits?

884
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:20,900
 Yes.

885
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:23,940
 They're within the ETJ, but outside of the city limits.

886
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:31,260
 Are we not pooling any of that development on 380, close to the Wise County line?

887
00:52:31,260 --> 00:52:35,900
 Big Sky, I think it was, that MUD, it's a MUD district, I'm pretty sure, out there.

888
00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:37,980
 I'm not familiar with that name.

889
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:39,980
 I'd have to check with Development Services on that.

890
00:52:39,980 --> 00:52:41,420
 You'd know if we were covering it, I'll bet.

891
00:52:41,420 --> 00:52:44,660
 So it's not on this map, but it was huge.

892
00:52:44,660 --> 00:52:45,660
 Right.

893
00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:46,660
 That might be outside of the ETJ.

894
00:52:46,660 --> 00:52:47,660
 Okay.

895
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:48,860
 I'd have to check on that.

896
00:52:48,860 --> 00:52:49,860
 Gotcha.

897
00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:50,860
 No worries.

898
00:52:50,860 --> 00:52:51,860
 Okay.

899
00:52:51,860 --> 00:53:00,820
 So in May, this is the proposal we made back in May regarding growth in the Hickory Creek

900
00:53:00,820 --> 00:53:01,820
 Basin.

901
00:53:01,820 --> 00:53:08,540
 So we had included $151 million of conveyance and $423 million of treatment, which would

902
00:53:08,540 --> 00:53:13,460
 have included that proposed Hickory Creek water reclamation plant.

903
00:53:13,460 --> 00:53:18,460
 So that was a $574 million total for that area.

904
00:53:18,460 --> 00:53:22,640
 We've narrowed that down, that Hickory Creek water reclamation plant has pushed outside

905
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,380
 of our five-year growth window.

906
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:31,340
 So we've removed that, and we've looked at as the numbers have solidified, we can treat

907
00:53:31,340 --> 00:53:35,140
 that through the existing Pecan Creek water reclamation plant.

908
00:53:35,140 --> 00:53:39,020
 So that was a big reduction.

909
00:53:39,020 --> 00:53:40,580
 How old is that plant now?

910
00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:41,580
 What's that?

911
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:42,580
 How old is that plant now?

912
00:53:42,580 --> 00:53:45,940
 The Pecan Creek, I think it's around 60 years old.

913
00:53:45,940 --> 00:53:51,860
 We've been doing condition assessment improvements on that, and then we also have, currently,

914
00:53:51,860 --> 00:53:58,340
 a CMAR project for the expansion of that plant, retrofit and expansion.

915
00:53:58,340 --> 00:54:04,780
 Yeah, I remember we expanded that area, predicting that that area would develop.

916
00:54:04,780 --> 00:54:09,180
 There was something underway, then it fell, it went belly up in the middle of the recession

917
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:10,180
 in '09.

918
00:54:10,180 --> 00:54:15,500
 So we mothballed a lot of it, but it was there and we eventually needed it.

919
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:16,500
 Right.

920
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:20,000
 All right, that was just comments, excuse me.

921
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,420
 So here was our May update regarding the Clear Creek Basin.

922
00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:31,100
 So we had $142 million in conveyance and $109 million in treatment for $251 million total

923
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:32,100
 in that area.

924
00:54:32,100 --> 00:54:38,460
 Since then, we've had a slight reduction in conveyance and a slight increase in treatment.

925
00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:42,660
 It results in an overall net decrease to $233 million.

926
00:54:42,660 --> 00:54:46,820
 So those laterals to the south, those were removed from the five-year window and those

927
00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:54,820
 can be installed by developers as the need presents itself in that area.

928
00:54:54,820 --> 00:55:00,820
 So when we started this effort back in October last year, we were looking at the full 25-year

929
00:55:00,820 --> 00:55:05,980
 window, and I believe the number was right around $1.62 billion for that.

930
00:55:05,980 --> 00:55:10,900
 We've reduced and narrowed in our focus to the five-year window in May.

931
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:18,660
 So if you look in May of 2023, our update came to a total of $825 million of improvements

932
00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:26,140
 by kind of planning it out, studying the numbers, looking at the necessity of the Hickory Creek

933
00:55:26,140 --> 00:55:30,980
 plant within the five-year window, or without, we were able to remove that, and our new total

934
00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:36,740
 is at $397 million.

935
00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:44,740
 So our next steps will be to present this on the consent agenda for approval, for adoption,

936
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:52,320
 and then bring it to city council, and once it's adopted, use this in our impact fee study

937
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:53,320
 and update.

938
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:54,320
 Yes.

939
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,540
 So kind of follow-up to Devin's question, I think, and point.

940
00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:04,080
 So this plan will be reviewed and revised in three years, five years?

941
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:12,440
 It's a living document, so once it's adopted, we go through kind of a constant revision

942
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,140
 process.

943
00:56:14,140 --> 00:56:19,820
 As projections change, as projects are completed, we go through annual updates on it with larger

944
00:56:19,820 --> 00:56:24,700
 reviews scheduled for those three- to five-year windows.

945
00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:28,500
 Thank you.

946
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:40,660
 I'm kind of surprised by the Hickory Creek postponement, because I know there's so much

947
00:56:40,660 --> 00:56:47,100
 growth in that basin, and so is that being met by, I know that we approved a small lift

948
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:54,060
 upgrade out, way out on the far south Robson, near Robson, yeah.

949
00:56:54,060 --> 00:57:00,340
 Is that helping, are we doing minor projects to avoid that $400 million treatment plant?

950
00:57:00,340 --> 00:57:03,740
 So there are minor projects, if you look at the conveyance, the way the conveyance map

951
00:57:03,740 --> 00:57:09,540
 here has changed to include some of these areas where we have that known level of growth

952
00:57:09,540 --> 00:57:15,660
 within that five-year window, by taking that and calculating where the growth is, when

953
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:19,780
 it's going to happen, we've seen that we can handle that, we should be able to handle

954
00:57:19,780 --> 00:57:24,180
 that flow through the Pecan Creek, the existing treatment plant, with some of the retrofitting

955
00:57:24,180 --> 00:57:26,860
 that we're doing out there.

956
00:57:26,860 --> 00:57:33,940
 We're still going to need a solution at Hickory Creek, it just pushes outside of that really

957
00:57:33,940 --> 00:57:35,580
 kind of solid planning window.

958
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:39,660
 Okay, and then on the, what's the one north?

959
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:40,660
 Clear Creek.

960
00:57:40,660 --> 00:57:42,100
 Yeah, the Clear Creek Basin.

961
00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:48,460
 So this conspicuously absent in the plan maps was a development that was previously called

962
00:57:48,460 --> 00:57:56,660
 Hills of Denton North, which is a major development on 2164 Missile Base Road.

963
00:57:56,660 --> 00:58:04,460
 And that was thousands of houses, and it might be currently dormant, but my understanding

964
00:58:04,460 --> 00:58:09,700
 was that they're, I guess it's not within the five-year window, is that the?

965
00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:13,160
 Not that I'm aware of, so that's another one I'd have to check on the name because it's

966
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:20,340
 not familiar top of mind, but that's, yeah, I don't think that's the five-year window.

967
00:58:20,340 --> 00:58:30,540
 Yeah, and then I just want to make sure in this 2.5 million gallons a day capacity there,

968
00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:37,340
 that does seem, I guess that facility will be able to be expanded as not yet built, not

969
00:58:37,340 --> 00:58:40,340
 yet in planning developments to come online.

970
00:58:40,340 --> 00:58:41,340
 Correct.

971
00:58:41,340 --> 00:58:46,740
 The facility location really with TCEQ determines how much we're able to discharge.

972
00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:52,620
 I believe in this area we can discharge higher than this rate, and most of our, the way we

973
00:58:52,620 --> 00:59:01,180
 approach planning of plants, we build in expansion capability, so typically we're really going

974
00:59:01,180 --> 00:59:05,300
 towards a modular expansion capability in a lot of our efforts so that we can add on

975
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:09,460
 as needed without doing a complete retrofit.

976
00:59:09,460 --> 00:59:12,040
 Okay, thank you.

977
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,040
 Question if I may.

978
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,800
 Mr. Rayner.

979
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:21,100
 So a lot of this is based on permits that have been put in with the city, is that what,

980
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:27,820
 and so you have those, and then as the activity of that corridor looks to be building, then

981
00:59:27,820 --> 00:59:32,820
 you kind of do a crystal ball of expansion as to the needs, is that?

982
00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:41,260
 Yes, correct, so as the developments progress, we work with the developers on their development

983
00:59:41,260 --> 00:59:47,380
 projections, so we incorporate their timelines, their build timelines into our planning to

984
00:59:47,380 --> 00:59:52,620
 get a better idea of when the growth will happen.

985
00:59:52,620 --> 00:59:56,380
 So initially when we start out, you know, we start out with the entire development,

986
00:59:56,380 --> 01:00:01,620
 the number of units, the overall capacity they're going to need, and work that in,

987
01:00:01,620 --> 01:00:05,180
 and then as we work through the process with them, we narrow down their build timeline

988
01:00:05,180 --> 01:00:09,860
 and plan that out to see how it will impact our wastewater model.

989
01:00:09,860 --> 01:00:12,900
 And could you go back to the other basin, please?

990
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:22,340
 So on the Hickory Creek, I would say the biggest user or most expense is the residential for

991
01:00:22,340 --> 01:00:24,620
 you all, would it not be?

992
01:00:24,620 --> 01:00:25,620
 I believe so.

993
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:32,060
 In this, yes, in this zero to five year window, I believe the biggest impact will be residential.

994
01:00:32,060 --> 01:00:39,220
 So along 380, those and possibly along I-35W as we get more industrial building development

995
01:00:39,220 --> 01:00:45,580
 coming along, that is somewhat of a saving grace, as it were, because you're betting

996
01:00:45,580 --> 01:00:53,860
 on the expense of the residential and yet the industrial warehouses would not be such

997
01:00:53,860 --> 01:00:58,100
 a demand, so it's a trade off, or would that be a fair statement?

998
01:00:58,100 --> 01:01:02,900
 It can be, depending on the type of industrial use, so for example, warehousing has a much

999
01:01:02,900 --> 01:01:09,300
 smaller impact than, for example, food processing or a different industrial use.

1000
01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:12,500
 So it really depends on the type of use that we see.

1001
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:13,500
 Yeah.

1002
01:01:13,500 --> 01:01:14,500
 Thank you.

1003
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:15,500
 Pretty good.

1004
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:20,500
 There doesn't appear to be any other questions.

1005
01:01:20,500 --> 01:01:24,180
 I'm pulling, there are, Mr. Ryback.

1006
01:01:24,180 --> 01:01:27,780
 I just wish to move approval.

1007
01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:29,760
 Move approval?

1008
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:35,580
 This is not, yeah, I think he's messing with us a little bit there, but right?

1009
01:01:35,580 --> 01:01:36,580
 We don't have to give it.

1010
01:01:36,580 --> 01:01:37,580
 There's no action.

1011
01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:38,580
 No, this is just an update.

1012
01:01:38,580 --> 01:01:43,100
 We'll bring it forward for approval after, before we review it with council.

1013
01:01:43,100 --> 01:01:46,060
 It was just a Q&A for us then.

1014
01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:47,540
 Appreciate your optimism, Mr. Ryback.

1015
01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:50,900
 I assume we had to recommend, I apologize.

1016
01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:51,900
 Thank you.

1017
01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:52,900
 Thank you.

1018
01:01:52,900 --> 01:01:58,500
 Mr. Chair, can I ask one question?

1019
01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:03,860
 The meeting tomorrow, city council right away impact fees, and it has, it's talking about

1020
01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:13,140
 water, wastewater and such, does this come under our preview at all or is this just straight?

1021
01:02:13,140 --> 01:02:19,100
 So that presentation is specific to roadway impact fees that the board does not have oversight

1022
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:25,140
 over when, when the water wastewater impact fees renewal comes forward to you.

1023
01:02:25,140 --> 01:02:30,500
 Those will come to you, but there should not be any changes to water wastewater impact fees

1024
01:02:30,500 --> 01:02:31,740
 as part of that conversation.

1025
01:02:31,740 --> 01:02:32,980
 That's general fund stuff, right?

1026
01:02:32,980 --> 01:02:33,980
 Yeah.

1027
01:02:33,980 --> 01:02:34,980
 That's what I was curious about.

1028
01:02:34,980 --> 01:02:35,980
 I appreciate it.

1029
01:02:35,980 --> 01:02:36,980
 Thank you.

1030
01:02:36,980 --> 01:02:37,980
 All right.

1031
01:02:37,980 --> 01:02:38,980
 Worth the question.

1032
01:02:38,980 --> 01:02:39,980
 That's for sure.

1033
01:02:39,980 --> 01:02:40,980
 Any other questions?

1034
01:02:40,980 --> 01:02:43,220
 If not, we stand adjourned.

1035
01:02:43,220 --> 01:02:45,300
 Since I don't get to make the motion, we're just going to adjourn.