WEBVTT

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 Good morning. We are here at the Mobility Committee meeting Wednesday, November 29,

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 2023, 8 a.m. in our council work session room. We are going to start with our citizens' comments.

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 Have you all heard of any citizens' comments from anyone that we need to speak on? All

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 right? There's no citizens' comments. So the second thing, items for individual consideration,

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 we are going to start with AMC 23-048, consider approval of the minutes of October 25, 2023.

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 Is there any movement made? I'm sorry, I'm a little bit distracted. And I second. I'm

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 going to vote. All right. So minutes are approved. BMC 23-049, receive a report and hold a discussion

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 regarding the city that didn't transportation/mobility project status report. Good morning. Oh, there's

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 Mr. Brandon. Oh, Councilmember McKee. Good morning. That's okay. We're just getting started.

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 Obviously, we're right in here, right in between everything. Is that mine? Wow, I did that.

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 Look at that. I did that. He did it all by himself. Yes, I did. My name is John Polster

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 with Innovative Transportation Solutions, and I'm here to give the update on the transportation

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 projects within City of Denton, mostly on system projects. We're working on projects

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 that average about $4 billion, we're all told, once they're completed. And we'll start right

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 off with I-35 North. You'll note that there's ready-to-let dates, and there's let dates.

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 Those are because of where the money is in the fiscal years. But essentially, just by

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 the way, the luck of the draw occurred. The purple 076 job is currently under construction

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 with -- you all see that, too. I thought I was imagining that thing on the bottom. The

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 455 project that's going from the high school on the east all the way out to 2449. And then

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 the next two projects that are let, just because of the timing on the utilities, is the 081

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 to the north and the 116 to the north. And then last will be the 074, which starts right

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 where 77 ties in to 35 and goes all the way north. It'll be six lanes, and it's a total

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 of about $800 million, and the funding is secured in those accounts for those different

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 categories. And there's really no issues other than everything you see there with those bullets

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 or all utilities that we are working to make sure they hit their completion dates. And

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 it literally goes from A to Z on the number of firms we're working with. I apologize.

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 >> So on this item last month, there was -- forgive me, I forgot to look at the previous report.

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 One of the companies had not been chatting with you?

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 >> Bolliver Water. When we sent you this report, I think it was like a week ago, we ended up

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 getting in contact with Bolliver Water, and they are going to be able to hit our marks

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 that we need them to, and it's not going to require us to facilitate any of their work

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 with financial assistance. So we'll correct that on the next report. But yes, we are -- that's

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 what we do. We just keep going down every one of the utilities, and when they have an

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 issue, we work with them to see if we can't get it resolved cordially, and if not, financially,

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 and then a third thing. >> Appreciate that. Thank you.

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 >> I have a question. >> Yes, ma'am.

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 >> This is an education question. When you're doing projects like this, and we notice, of

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 course, recognizing the amount of work that's being done underneath there, what would be

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 -- what's the thing that could hold up a project like this, you know, more substantially?

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 >> Right. So the -- every project that has federal money on it goes through essentially

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 three stages. The first stage is environmental clearance, and depending upon the newness

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 of the road or the impact, the level of environmental clearance can be programmatic where you just

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 check a box or incredibly involved where you have to do a deep dive, and it goes from six

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 months to five years on the spectrum. Second is concurrent with that because you have to

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 do 30% design in order for the environmental document to know what to -- what you're impacting.

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 The second phase is to take it all the way through design, but it's not just design.

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 It's the design, which are the plans, specifications, which type of material, and then an estimate

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 so that the state will have a document that they can put on the street. Depending on the

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 project, that could be two years or more. >> Is that going on at the same time?

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 >> It's concurrent. So what you'll do is you get to 30% on the design, get to the environmental

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 document, and then about six months before you're cleared, you really press on -- because

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 you have to be able to respond to the public on their concerns, so you don't want to fully

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 design it until then. Then you do the design, and then that design is never the issue. So

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 as soon as it's cleared, what happens is you start to design and you begin right away acquisition

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 and utility relocation in that order, usually. And right away usually takes about a year,

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 and utilities can take about a year as well, and that's going on at the same time as you're

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 doing the design. And typically what you do is you hold the design back at 95%. So if

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 you'll look on the PS&E here, we are working on the 100% PS&E. We want to wait, right?

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 Because if something changes, we want to be able to make that change in the last 5%. So

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 when the right of way is acquired, the utility is relocated, and we finish the 100% design,

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 then the project is called ready to let. It's ready to be funded. And on our projects you'll

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 see most of the time there is a let date and/or funding. A lot of times there isn't any funding,

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 so the let date is an asterisk. We don't know when we're going to get the money. But all

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 told from the beginning of Iwanta Road to the road going under construction, somebody

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 like me or this fine crowd here, Becky, we've all been working on it from anywhere from

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 three to seven years. Okay. So that is -- thank you so much. Because I think it's just important

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 that folks out there know that what they're seeing right now has already been worked on.

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 For years. For years. And then when we see that word ready to let, that means now we've

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 got to get the funding from all the work that we've done. We did all the work, everything

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 except going to construction. Okay. So like when you look at 35 out there around Mayhill,

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 you see a lot of construction going on out there. Oh, yeah. I love it. But that's just

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 the utilities being relocated. Okay. They're getting out of the way. Okay. Thank you very

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 much. I appreciate that. And then same conversation on the merge except that this project will

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 go -- sorry. See, everything in my chivalrousness wants me to crawl down there and do that for

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 you. I don't know what I'm doing either. I didn't say they did. It's my nature. It's

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 my nature. I was raised by three older sisters. I know they don't. No, that was just him.

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 So this project is just under a half a billion at $480 million. And this project will go

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 to construction. You'll see that the ready to let date and the let date are the same.

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 So we got a couple of utilities with some dates in here, April, April, or before. And

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 we're going to let that project on the assumption that we're going to hit that mark. And this

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 is from the merge, both E and W, about North Texas Boulevard up and just north of the rural

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 track up all the way to 77. It'll be six lanes. And then between the merge and 380, there'll

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 be additional pavement for the future toll managed lanes. So come April, this thing goes

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 under the knife. I have a question. Yes, ma'am.

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 You mentioned something about the toll managed lanes. How quickly can those be opened up

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 after it's decided that they're going to be opened up?

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 So the problem with this part of the toll managed lanes is that everything from the

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 lake to here, when we did the interim project, we didn't buy all the right of way. And we

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 didn't put the footprint in place that is needed for the able to add the managed lanes.

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 So it'll be a while before we get from basically the lake to here with the toll managed lanes.

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 And the reason that is when we did the estimate back whenever that was 2012, we had one point.

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 So if you look, there's 480 million and 800. So real quick, that's about $1.3 billion.

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 The interim job from 380 all the way down to 635 was $1.4 billion. And so we had the

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 option of either building an interim, which in this case was putting a size 13 shoe foot

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 into a size seven shoe, right? Or spend a billion to on right away, get all the right

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 away, but not build anything. And so the state decided that that would look bad. So they

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 built the interim. And so we're doing breakout jobs. Mayhill up here, further south, we're

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 doing 1171, 121 in corporate, we're doing breakouts. Because once you get all the big

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 structures widened, it's easy to come in and do the main lanes in between. But it'll

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 be a while. And I don't want to speculate because there's dog years, people years and

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 highway years. And I'm talking about a while in highway years. But this goes under the

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 knife in April. And here's another one of those breakout jobs. It's just right at about

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 125 million. It's the Mayhill project. And this includes the northbound frontage road

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 and all the work at Mayhill plus the bypass at Brinker. Because the southbound frontage

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 road was built with the interim job because of the buckets coming in. So we're looking

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 at being ready to let just next year, first part of next year, and if we can in this current

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 unified transportation program, move that $124 million up into this current UTP that

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 they're drafting, then we can let it sometime in '24. Because if the money is funded, it's

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 just in '25. And there's always projects that are not making their mark. And so they

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 need to rearrange the dominoes, for lack of a better word. And we're going to put our

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 project in as a candidate for that. And it shouldn't be a problem because we don't have

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 -- you'll see we have category two, which are cog funds, and then category four, which

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 are the district's funds. So it shouldn't be a problem because the ones that give you

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 trouble if you need to move around too much are your category 12 funds. Because those

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 are clear lanes and strategic priority, and those are picked by the commission. And there's

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 always a political reason for that. So we don't have that on this project. So we think

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 that if we can stay on course for the February '24, during this current UTP update, we'll

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 be able to move it up. I think that's my favorite project right now. Mine, too. I live over

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 there. Because it impacts me quite greatly more than any of them. In y'all's job on

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 the Mayhill Bridge, that's going to be a game changer over there. It sure is. Excited about

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 that. Okay. So now we move over to the other 35W, 35W, 35, which is 30W. And we are -- this

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 project had been environmentally cleared since 2020. And so we're buying right away. And

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 the reason it's so long between the environmental clearance and right away acquisition is they're

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 only giving us tranches of money for right away at a time. So they're not giving it to

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 us all at once. And so you'll see here that it's 341 million for the two frontage roads

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 and there's an Astracon funding, which means that all we have on this project is money

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 for right away, no construction dollars. And the reason it's 341 is because every structure

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 2449, 407, Cleveland Gibbs, everything in between, all the bridges in between, we're

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 reconstructing the bridges at their ultimate width and configuration with the frontage

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 road. So it's not just the frontage road job, it's the frontage road and several large

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 interchanges. And we're going to be ready to let in 25. And there is no money. So when

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 there's no money and there's an Astrac you usually look over here and it's, it's always

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 five years or better out because that's no man's land in funding for transportation.

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 And those 5.57 miles. Yes, just because it would cut it in half. It's from the 2449 to

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 407 and then 407 down to Del Arnhardt is the next one. And then 2449 up to the railroad

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 track. And the reason that is, if you see here, that's nothing but really a lot of flood

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 plain area. And so nobody wants to touch it. Okay. So your project on 380 out east, we

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 are looking at being done next month. And it's looking like they're going to stick onto

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 that completion date. And this was where we took the road and we went six lanes when it

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 used to be for take away the flush median and put in a raised median with protected

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 left turn. So it's added capacity and improved safety. And going forward, if we need to look

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 at tweaking median openings, that's always possible as long as the city supports it.

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 Because the, that median is just basically pegged to the concrete except on the bridge.

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 That's where those, that's where those new neighborhoods or frontage stores or something

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 like that. You'd be able to navigate openings when they come through or those say it'll

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 be primarily where, where the city wants them. And if you agree with something that a business

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 wants, then we can look at it as long as it fits within the design criteria. But yeah,

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 you don't want to have too many openings because then you go back to the problem you had before.

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 And we're going to six lanes. And the reason that's important is when you have to take

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 a right to make a U-turn to come back, you can do the U-turn with six lanes. You can't

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 do it with four. And so we're, we're adding that third lane, which actually ends up being

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 your essentially your right turn lane. Okay. And then loop 288 West Frontage Road. So when

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 I said that somebody has been working on this, you know, five to seven, 10 years with this

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 one was, I started this when I was single and young and handsome. And now I've got three

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 kids out of college and it's, it's been a whippin, but we are cleared in 2020 the right

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 away. The reason the right away is taking that along is because all those white dots

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 you see are gas wells and we have to deal with those concurrent with the utility relocation

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 in the right at the same time. But we are pressing head. We've got everything resolved

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 at Underwood on the south end. And this is where, this is where the 35 job will stop

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 that I just showed you before. It goes from 2449, which will eventually be loop 288 South

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 to 407. So you'll be able to bypass. And I don't know what's happened lately. I don't

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 know if you've been out there, but I've traveled this road multiple times in the last 10 days

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 and the traffic is getting backed up so bad going north, it goes all the way to the little

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 creek underpass. So when we start 35, we'll wish we had 288 and then the other 288. So

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 we are pressing head with a July, 2025 environmental clearance we've done. We met with tech stock.

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 My firm met with tech start and the consultant just before the holidays had to come to Jesus

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 with that on the tie in. And we're going to, there are currently four alternatives that

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 were being shown to the public. When we bring it back to you, there will only be two. So

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 we'll cut our trauma in half by the time we get here. And we're looking at design speed.

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 So a 70 mile an hour design speed has flatter vertical and horizontal curves than a 60.

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 And it makes it where you can't miss as much. And so we're looking at looking at a lower

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 design speed because it's really supposed to be a connection, not a freeway. So we'll

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 bring all that stuff back to you probably before you will get with Becky before your

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 next mobility and then we'll figure out how to get you the info. Do we have any more clarity

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 on on that, that bypass alignment? Where exactly that's going? And you know, I know you're

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 saying you're taking down from from, you know, getting rid of two options, but I think we're

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 missing the endpoint and not that bypass, right? No, no, the bypass, the connections

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 from 380 to 288 is everything else is working inside the lines for lack of a better word.

00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:59.920
 It will be, so I refuse to answer that on the grounds of incriminating. Give us a little

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 bit of time. But with the outer, I'll continue this, the outer two alternatives are the least

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 viable and that's where the ones that impacted the most people. And when we looked at it

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 and tech, the consultant was saying we're impacting 14 homes. They were talking about

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 out here on this part of because they're saying, well, we know 380 is going to be a freeway

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 in the future, so we're just going to go ahead and buy the right away and do it now. And

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 I was a consultant saying that. And so after I fired them and then hired them back, we're

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 going to stop the project because it can be 20 years where I mean, the interim, I just

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 showed you the interim is going to be done in December, Texas going to want to get their

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 money out of that because that has five interchanges. So it's going to be a while before we do the

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 freeway. So one of the things we discussed was just truncating the end project wherever

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 it makes sense to transition from what you're direct connecting from to 380 as the existing

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 arterial, which is the sixth lane with a median. So we're shrinking the end, pulling in the

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 alternatives and then seeing if we can get a design speed that allows us to miss things.

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 And if you don't mind, the other thing that I noticed the public had a lot of concern

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 on and y'all were looking at was the, the additional cemetery that we all knew about

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 as citizens, but I don't know that the consultants understood was there. Did we get any clarity?

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:42.320
 Yeah, we, we identified it and we were looking because if we take out, remove those two alternatives

00:23:42.320 --> 00:23:47.200
 further out, we're not even we're not near it. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. But

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 it's, the problem is, is if I share it with you right now, you'll share it. And then it's,

00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:58.880
 it's going to be old and I want to make sure I'm giving you the right stuff and I need

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:07.440
 a little bit more time. Okay. Sure enough. Bonnie Bray. So again, Bonnie Bray is this

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 part of the 288 job. So we just show it as a breakout for you because it's shown as Bonnie

00:24:14.280 --> 00:24:21.000
 Bray seven and you're reporting. So it's part of our environmental clearance process and

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 it'll be paid for by the people who build this project, which is probably the County

00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:37.140
 and the state. So that's why we show it as a separate project. 1515 we're on the mark

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:44.240
 still moving forward. There's no really critical path items for completion of the, all the

00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:49.960
 components for ready to let of June of 2025, we're just muddling through all the utilities

00:24:49.960 --> 00:25:00.240
 and changing. So until we get closer to the project, we, the state and the County in general,

00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.400
 if the city or developers or anybody comes in and says, Hey, we need to make a couple

00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:11.840
 of changes because of whatever school goes out there, the, um, we hold plans back so

00:25:11.840 --> 00:25:17.160
 that we can accommodate those things as we're going forward. So primarily we're working

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:23.280
 on the utilities and working with the railroad and the design, we're just holding it until

00:25:23.280 --> 00:25:29.200
 we get closer to the right away and utilities being done. So we have flexibility to change

00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:43.480
 things that we need. So 1173 the right aways, the right away is acquired for this project.

00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:48.640
 We're going to probably look at building some part of this with the 35 job. We have a meeting

00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:59.320
 with crumb. Uh, I think it's this week on the aesthetics of this intersection. And, uh,

00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:03.520
 that's kind of the last thing we had to do from a environmental standpoint is to see

00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:07.640
 what they want to do aesthetically, let them know what their options are. And then we can

00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:14.720
 incorporate that into the environmental document, but we're on track for an RTL of 25 with the

00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.680
 exception of everything east of the railroad track, which we've already progressed that

00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:27.120
 farther because we're going to add that to the 35 job. I have a question. Is that downtown

00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:32.920
 crime? That is literally that little tiny little corner space right there. And they

00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:38.120
 went, yes, no, yes, no, yes on whether or not they even wanted us to go down in there

00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:47.920
 because it's all historic. So that's, that's what is driving the breaking on the environmental

00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:53.200
 cause until we know exactly what they want us to do, we won't know the impacts in there.

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:59.320
 Everything there is historical and as you know, uh, you step off the sidewalk and you're

00:26:59.320 --> 00:27:05.140
 in the road, you're in the street. So I mean, everything behind the sidewalk is historical.

00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:16.880
 So it's going to be hard slog. We have another question here. Um, it's on. Um, I just heard

00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:25.320
 you say, um, from 35, uh, the section of 1173 going to 35, you are going to do wrapped up

00:27:25.320 --> 00:27:32.640
 in the 35 project. Yes, sir. Okay. Cause we're building the two projects break at 77 and

00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:38.960
 we want to go ahead and just get the connection built so that it's fair. Um, so we don't have

00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:44.480
 to come back and impact those properties twice. It makes sense. I just just want to make sure.

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:49.240
 Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. So it just makes me ask, and I think we asked this before,

00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:55.160
 so I'm going to apologize for repeating myself. What happens to the old 1173 intersection

00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:03.720
 at 35? It just dead ends? No, uh, the state's going to want the city to take it at some point,

00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:09.640
 but we, they always want to have that conversation sooner than we want to have that conversation.

00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:19.360
 So, uh, you don't have to, but, uh, it would be this section of the road right here where

00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:26.720
 it deviates. And so what we're talking about doing is also, um, moving this at grade to

00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:31.760
 here, which would mean that this would be a U-turn or a dead end and this would be a

00:28:31.760 --> 00:28:36.280
 dead end. Uh, so this would be basically a long drive and this would be a drive back

00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:41.760
 and we tie this road back into the future 1173. So they still have access. They just

00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:50.360
 got a, we can't cross a railroad track, but you don't have to say yes, but they start

00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:59.520
 sweating you as you go forward on things. So the section east of the track between track

00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:07.520
 and 35 would only be accessible to the access road of 35. Is that correct? Correct. So if

00:29:07.520 --> 00:29:12.200
 you live, and I don't know who lives here, but if you, if you live here, you'd still

00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:16.400
 do what you always do. Come out and go this way. If you want to go this way, you got to

00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:26.480
 come out, go this way, come back up. Are there any homes that are currently there? I didn't

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.760
 think anything. I don't think there is anything there. We expect some future growth, right?

00:29:32.760 --> 00:29:39.520
 So we would, we would want to orient it towards the freeway as opposed to the railroad tracks.

00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:45.440
 So all those conversations will happen when the state comes to the city and says, as John's

00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:50.920
 mentioning, this roadway is now going to be taken off system. It's no longer going to

00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:58.640
 be a state of Texas roadway and the transportation planning team along with the capital projects

00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:03.600
 engineering team would have conversations to understand the implications, what works

00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:08.580
 best in coordination with the mobility plan. There are other roadways in this area that

00:30:08.580 --> 00:30:14.400
 at some later date will be connected or constructed. Currently, everything east of the railroad

00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:21.040
 track minus one home that has not been lived in for some period of time. Everything east

00:30:21.040 --> 00:30:26.920
 of the railroad track currently is development on the south side of 1173. So all those conversations

00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:32.240
 will happen at that time. And the city will make the decision as to whether or not they

00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:36.440
 want to take over portions of the roadway, all of the roadway and parts of the reason

00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:41.400
 why John's mentioning the at grade crossing, possibly moving locations is anytime. And

00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.240
 we've mentioned this to you before you work with the railroad. There's the conversation

00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:51.960
 of a one to one swap typically doesn't happen. It's typically a one to two or a one to three.

00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.280
 So there's a lot of conversations still to be had. There's a lot of decisions that will

00:30:56.280 --> 00:31:01.760
 have to be made. But it'll really rely on what currently is a part of the mobility plan

00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:07.960
 and then what the city sees as a comfort level. It's all industrial currently on the east

00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:12.640
 side of the railroad track. So taking into consideration anything that will happen in

00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:21.480
 that area. And one multifamily on the north side of 1173. I'm sorry, I was thinking on

00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.840
 the south side. There is one multifamily that's being constructed on the north side. So all

00:31:25.840 --> 00:31:30.560
 of those conversations will come into play as far as what's the best way to get folks

00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:34.360
 in and out that entire area is going to look and if you've been out that way, it looks

00:31:34.360 --> 00:31:41.920
 completely differently. I mean, it's currently being resurfaced by the developments that

00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.880
 are in that area for a large portion of it, but not the complete portion. So there will

00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:52.120
 be a lot of conversations that will have to be we're talking we're talking years. So

00:31:52.120 --> 00:31:58.280
 highway years? Yes, because we're just now getting around on Elm and Locus and we started

00:31:58.280 --> 00:32:05.800
 that conversation many, many moons ago. It was years. So it takes a long time for everybody

00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:15.400
 to agree on a turn back. So and I'm still arguing that if you say no, they'll just turn

00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:25.560
 it into business 1173 and wait for you to ask them for anything. And if this is a later

00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:31.280
 conversation, I'm happy to just say, I don't know yet or something. Will this track the

00:32:31.280 --> 00:32:38.280
 same way as Elm and Locus like they'll make improvements before we take it? Or maybe whatever

00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:48.300
 is up for whatever you all feel comfortable with. You don't have to buy the house, right?

00:32:48.300 --> 00:32:52.000
 I just didn't know all of when roads are turned over to the city, if they all kind of work

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.160
 the same way as we're seeing with Elm and Locus. That's all. It depends. Each project

00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:03.960
 is separate. And in this particular case, what they're going to argue is they gave you

00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:10.480
 back a road called Bartow, just now 1173. And they're going to do the cul-de-sac-ing

00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:17.760
 because they have to in order to get the crossing at the new location. So and it's still their

00:33:17.760 --> 00:33:27.440
 road. Thank you. Okay. Nobody wants to talk about the outer loop, right? Nobody. We move

00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:39.920
 on. The only thing we're working on is tweaking the Milam Road connection. So that first job

00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:49.640
 I showed you, 35 North, it includes the box for the outer loop as originally envisioned

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:54.640
 by the city's thoroughfare plan and the county's thoroughfare plan. The county has since bought

00:33:54.640 --> 00:34:03.360
 everything out there for their Expo Center area. And there are some concerns about where

00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:11.000
 the road, because if you look on the map, 156 is just right there, just to the west.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.360
 And you've got this outer loop tying into 35 and you've got this little short jaunt

00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:22.000
 to get to 156. So the state's going to want to make that connection. And so because we

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:31.360
 can on a $800 million job, we are simply going to extend the bridge structure because Milam

00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:37.840
 will be at grade and 35 will go over. We're just going to extend the bridge another 800

00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:45.320
 feet to the south so we can hit anywhere in that thousand foot hole because surrounding

00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:51.160
 air on a project like that. So we don't know where outer loop is going to be, ultimately

00:34:51.160 --> 00:34:56.640
 on the west. So we're just giving ourselves some flexibility on the 35 job. And then everything

00:34:56.640 --> 00:35:01.120
 else we're tracking with the Corps of Engineers. The Corps is telling us that that, and y'all,

00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:05.960
 I think y'all are in a concurrence with this, that the only place we can cross the Green

00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:14.800
 Belt is at 428 existing. And the current plan is since it's only 150 feet wide and we need

00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:21.640
 500 feet for the freeway, and the Corps is going, good luck with that. So we're looking

00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:28.520
 at a stack scenario where it'd be the frontage roads would be at grade and the main lanes

00:35:28.520 --> 00:35:36.960
 would go over. So it'd be stacked like this so it all comes up and then goes back out

00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:42.440
 so we don't impact and go outside the footprint that's already existing there. And then everything

00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:48.160
 else is pretty much just stuff. Those are the ones I think y'all can care about, is

00:35:48.160 --> 00:36:00.120
 Milan and the Green Belt. I have a question. You bet. The county, oh okay, I was just going

00:36:00.120 --> 00:36:10.440
 to ask where does Denton, will the, will the, I'm trying to figure out where does Denton

00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:18.120
 begin in that area. What's the, what's the, is it Milan Road or north of Milan Road or

00:36:18.120 --> 00:36:27.440
 south of Milan Road? So really honestly to be best we would need to be able to show you

00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:34.800
 the city limits map because there is a sliver that goes up through. So if you can very faintly

00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:43.440
 see the purplish color, that's kind of an outline block along 428. So a lot of that

00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:48.400
 is city of Denton city limits but it'd be best for us to show you on a map. It's almost

00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:56.840
 like you should like have a map like right here over there. Yeah, good idea. So one of

00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:01.560
 the things we're doing that I think y'all might be interested in is this is a 23 mile

00:37:01.560 --> 00:37:10.960
 long dam and watershed goes to Dallas. One of the things we're looking at doing is making

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:20.360
 the outer loop a best management practices water conveyance scenario where we would take

00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:29.200
 the water, hold it, not hold it and let it slowly trickle down the Trinity River but

00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:37.720
 hold it and let it through, we haven't figured this part out yet, push it into the aquifers

00:37:37.720 --> 00:37:43.520
 so that we recharge the aquifer because we're at the tip end of the aquifer so if the aquifer

00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:51.480
 starts to dry up, we dry up first. So we're going to try to do something where we chase

00:37:51.480 --> 00:38:00.600
 the waterways further north and south so that they're larger hold and that they move towards

00:38:00.600 --> 00:38:13.560
 a filtration system that allows us to safely put rainwater, stormwater into the groundwater

00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:18.520
 and nobody knows how to do that yet so we're going to figure it out on the way. John, I

00:38:18.520 --> 00:38:27.040
 know you said not to invoke the Texas Parks and Wildlife because it's scary with the regulations

00:38:27.040 --> 00:38:33.440
 but if you're actually talking about detention areas that you want to drain from then the

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.200
 one billion dollars would come in very handy to get some of that land to drain it into

00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:46.680
 the aquifer and all kinds of other things. I may have changed my mind on that because

00:38:46.680 --> 00:38:56.960
 we are actually a, Corps of Engineers put out this nationwide, I don't know what the

00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:02.480
 program was but we got to be the pilot so we are actually doing this in concurrence

00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:08.120
 with shoulder to shoulder with the Corps of Engineers so this is something they were wanting

00:39:08.120 --> 00:39:13.620
 to look at so I think it would be easy and if you've got to deal with the Corps, you

00:39:13.620 --> 00:39:17.040
 might as well just throw in the Texas Parks and Wildlife because they're not any worse

00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:22.560
 than the Corps to deal with. So yes, I think that we probably need to go back and look

00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:26.560
 at that but we're making it up as we're going along because we can't find anywhere in the

00:39:26.560 --> 00:39:33.720
 nation where somebody's used a road to recharge an aquifer and we just think it's environmentally

00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:39.200
 the right thing to do because otherwise what the Corps of Engineers and what Cog wants

00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:46.320
 to do is take all of this land from half of Wise County and all of Denton County and turn

00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:52.520
 it into a detention pond. They don't want you to develop. They wanted to leave it so

00:39:52.520 --> 00:39:56.720
 that it doesn't push water down to Dallas because they didn't plan properly and that's

00:39:56.720 --> 00:40:02.640
 not going to fly so we've got to come up with an alternative. We've got the outer loop,

00:40:02.640 --> 00:40:07.280
 we've got everybody's attention, we've got the Corps, we're going to see if we can figure

00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.080
 out some way to -- and it may be an amenity, right, where one of the things I'm envisioning

00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:17.480
 is is you may be in the areas where you can widen the right of way so that you have a

00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:24.540
 linear lake in between the main lanes, right, and it stays constant because we're slowly

00:40:24.540 --> 00:40:29.840
 recharging the aquifer and it takes longer to recharge the aquifer than it does to send

00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:36.560
 it downstream. So it's all up in the air. It's going to -- it will just cost the county

00:40:36.560 --> 00:40:41.320
 about $7 million to try to study it.

00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:44.800
 >> You can have another Lila in the north if you want to.

00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:45.800
 >> Clearly.

00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:47.840
 >> It makes people happy.

00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:54.200
 >> Yeah. Some of them. Anyway, I thought y'all would be interested in that. We're trying

00:40:54.200 --> 00:41:02.120
 to be good stewards of the watershed. And here's where I stop talking.

00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:07.200
 >> Thank you, John. Elm and Locust has two different steps that we're currently working

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:13.760
 through right now. First is a resolution, as we've talked to you about before, to actually

00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:21.520
 take over Elm and Locust from 380 all the way to Eagle Drive. That resolution is specific

00:41:21.520 --> 00:41:30.900
 to the actual right of way description of those roadways. It has nothing specifically

00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:36.680
 written about the construction that's going to happen from TxDOT or the construction that's

00:41:36.680 --> 00:41:42.040
 going to happen in concurrence with the county bond funding receiving -- that we've received

00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:47.840
 and also the project that Trevor's team is currently delivering for the water and sewer

00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:53.840
 relocations north of the courthouse, drainage improvements and of course that roadway completion.

00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:59.120
 At this time, we are working with TxDOT on how to move forward with taking a resolution

00:41:59.120 --> 00:42:05.560
 forward that would turn over a roadway to the city of Denton without a similar agreement

00:42:05.560 --> 00:42:10.880
 that states that they are going to complete the project they're supposed to complete and

00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.360
 that we are going to have the opportunity to complete the project we need to complete

00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:22.800
 north of the courthouse. So I'm working with TxDOT on that. I don't want to send a resolution

00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:28.520
 through council to approve and take over the roadway until I have some kind of agreement

00:42:28.520 --> 00:42:32.480
 that states they're going to complete, which I know they're going to. We have multiple

00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:38.600
 conversations. Everyone's in alignment. They're in agreement. But we need some kind of documentation

00:42:38.600 --> 00:42:43.200
 that states that. And so until we get to that point, which we are currently working through

00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:48.580
 with TxDOT -- Travis actually just emailed me today -- then you will not see that resolution

00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:53.840
 come forward. Been working on the resolution. Everything's ready to go. But we also need

00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:59.840
 some kind of document, whether it's an agreement through TxDOT, et cetera, that says they're

00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:05.280
 going to complete their portion of the project. They are working through all of the plans.

00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:09.160
 Their plans are very close to completion, and they anticipate starting construction

00:43:09.160 --> 00:43:15.520
 on the southern portion in 2024. But we just want to have both of those documents in hand

00:43:15.520 --> 00:43:21.600
 or some type of agreement before we move forward. >> And that's really not a minor thing because

00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:29.000
 I worked for Crowley as well, and Crowley has 1187 going through it, and they wanted

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:35.720
 to turn back and do some stuff. And they needed -- because if you keep TxDOT in the loop,

00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:40.480
 if there's any federal money that you need to move or do stuff, then the state pays the

00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:48.480
 20% local match. And Crowley, being good citizens as they were, without my acknowledgement or

00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:54.880
 notice, passed a resolution saying that they would take over 1187, and they didn't put

00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:01.840
 any of the wiggle words in there. And so the commission adopted it two months later. And

00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:06.480
 then when I went back to try to get the local match from the state, they said, that's not

00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:13.040
 our road. So you don't want that to happen. So you need the belt of suspenders on this.

00:44:13.040 --> 00:44:18.800
 >> So and I know we've been talking about it coming forward, but when I had the conversations

00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:25.240
 at the state in Austin with the real estate specialist that I worked with, based on Travis's

00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:32.320
 recommendation, it's a dual track process that needs to be taken through. And the resolution

00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:36.960
 is, like I said, specifically just for the land takeover. It has nothing to do with the

00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:42.320
 agreement or the construction that TxDOT has to complete or the construction that the county

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:47.200
 and the city are working on. So we don't want to take over a roadway until we have that

00:44:47.200 --> 00:44:51.400
 confirmation, whether it be an agreement or whether we bring the resolution forward after

00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:57.120
 the construction is all completed. So just trying to protect the city in this perspective.

00:44:57.120 --> 00:45:08.580
 >> Absolutely. Okay. Let's do a test. That's all I got.

00:45:08.580 --> 00:45:14.280
 >> Thank you, John. >> I think you're welcome. I mean, you are

00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:21.680
 welcome, but I don't know where I was at. >> Okay. Well, then that takes us to CMC 23.

00:45:21.680 --> 00:45:30.720
 Did you all have any other questions? I forgot to ask. Okay. So that's going to take us to

00:45:30.720 --> 00:45:39.000
 CMC 23-051. Receive a report, hold a discussion, and approve the mobility committee 2024 meeting

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.440
 schedule. >> All righty. Thank you very much. So as

00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:51.080
 we do annually, we want to take the opportunity to go through the calendar for the 2024 calendar

00:45:51.080 --> 00:45:56.160
 year. And one of the things, and I'll bring that up, one of the things that we wanted

00:45:56.160 --> 00:46:03.120
 to also discuss today is the time of the meeting. So currently you can see the time or the dates

00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:09.120
 for January all the way through December. You will note that the November and December

00:46:09.120 --> 00:46:14.520
 meetings instead of being the fourth Wednesday of the month have been moved to the third

00:46:14.520 --> 00:46:19.920
 Wednesday of the month due to the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday weeks. And the purpose

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:26.140
 of the discussion today is to make sure that we all come in agreement as to what time that

00:46:26.140 --> 00:46:31.520
 meeting can start. And we currently have the meeting starting at 8 a.m. I do want to make

00:46:31.520 --> 00:46:38.840
 mention that we do have staff that has to come in around 630, 645 a.m. to make sure,

00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:43.480
 which they're happy to do, but to make sure that everything's ready and set up because

00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:50.880
 this is live. And so there are some logistical things that do happen on those time frames.

00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:56.320
 We would like to possibly recommend a 9 or 10 o'clock time frame, but wanted to give

00:46:56.320 --> 00:47:01.720
 you all the opportunity to have that discussion as a committee and settle on what time you

00:47:01.720 --> 00:47:09.240
 think is best. And then once that's all approved, you will receive the invitations from Megan.

00:47:09.240 --> 00:47:14.360
 And we will work with the city secretary's office to make sure that the calendar is reserved

00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:20.120
 for all of those dates starting in January on the 24th. So with that, I will open it

00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:29.280
 up for y'all's discussion. Well, I will go first. And either one of you all can speak

00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:44.760
 afterwards. I am good with the dates. Okay. The times I am good with 9 o'clock and could

00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:54.160
 certainly work my schedule to 10 o'clock. I just happen to be retired. So let me throw

00:47:54.160 --> 00:48:01.040
 that in for you. So I'm good with either time, preferably 9. Okay. But I'll certainly go

00:48:01.040 --> 00:48:11.440
 with 10. All right. Well, I'm going to join you in retirement on December 31st. So unfortunately

00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:19.160
 for me, that means that I'm more flexible. So I'll do whatever y'all want. And that means

00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:30.040
 that it is our other member of the committee who needs to be the PTA on this issue. What

00:48:30.040 --> 00:48:46.000
 do you think? Oh, man. Sorry. I appreciate y'all. As the only working person going in

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:52.360
 the next year on here, I need 8 a.m. because I have to go to work after this. So my apologies

00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:59.120
 to all of the staff who has to come in early. I'm up with you. So I would really like for

00:48:59.120 --> 00:49:06.920
 us to keep 8 a.m. And I will continue to do my best on Wednesdays. But gosh, we're already

00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:12.400
 here on Tuesday. That seems like to be a really great day if we could just move these to Tuesdays.

00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.840
 But I recognize that that probably won't happen because there are three of us. So I'll just

00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:23.220
 say that my preference is always going to be a day that council already meets on a Tuesday

00:49:23.220 --> 00:49:31.120
 at 8 a.m. So I will throw out. I will throw out the environment is currently Tuesdays,

00:49:31.120 --> 00:49:35.560
 but that's not every week. It's not every week. We just have to be mindful twice a month.

00:49:35.560 --> 00:49:39.240
 Right. You have to be mindful not to overlap that committee. Sure. We meet twice a month

00:49:39.240 --> 00:49:43.640
 because you and I are both on that committee. Yeah, we meet twice a month. There's a whole

00:49:43.640 --> 00:49:47.380
 nother Tuesday in the month. That's always going to be my preference. But I respect that

00:49:47.380 --> 00:49:51.240
 you all have to agree. And of course, that has to agree. I'm amenable to that. If we

00:49:51.240 --> 00:49:56.960
 keep Wednesday, I'll do my best. But I'd still really like eight a.m. So that way I can get

00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:01.640
 out here and go to work. So I will say on Tuesdays, it probably will be very difficult.

00:50:01.640 --> 00:50:05.480
 We can look at that time frame. But there's a lot of other meetings that happen on Tuesday

00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:09.560
 other than just the committee on the environment. There's also an executive staff meeting that

00:50:09.560 --> 00:50:16.080
 staff goes to every Tuesday at nine a.m. at the Civic Center. So happy to look at Tuesday,

00:50:16.080 --> 00:50:21.560
 getting this room and it being able to be televised. And then, as you know, council

00:50:21.560 --> 00:50:26.460
 could start at eleven thirty if we have a work session that starts early, if it's a

00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:31.220
 joint meeting with planning and zoning or the school district. Those meetings always

00:50:31.220 --> 00:50:36.000
 started eleven thirty and the same individuals who would need to prepare for this would have

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:40.960
 to start preparing for that around nine thirty. So I do think Tuesdays will be logistically

00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:49.360
 an issue. You know, I understand the need for eight a.m. on the Tuesday mornings and

00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:54.020
 if Wednesday mornings at eight a.m. work, I understand that. I do want to make sure

00:50:54.020 --> 00:51:00.440
 that we can have a quorum where the meetings have to be canceled. So, you know, I'm happy

00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:06.900
 to have that discussion with the city secretary's office and the city manager's office. I know

00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:11.200
 we were looking, like I said, to try to move it later in the day, just simply from the

00:51:11.200 --> 00:51:16.560
 fact that it is a logistical situation, especially if there's been a late council meeting that

00:51:16.560 --> 00:51:20.680
 might not be over till midnight or one o'clock to have staff back here at six thirty in the

00:51:20.680 --> 00:51:26.400
 morning to try to get set up for the meeting. So but I do know that you have a schedule

00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:33.400
 that you're trying to work around with your work also. So if you can make a recommendation

00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:39.440
 as a team or a group, a committee as to what you feel like is best, I will tell you that

00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:43.720
 the city manager is interested in moving the meeting to nine a.m. also just so that it

00:51:43.720 --> 00:51:48.240
 is better suited for staff that's involved in it. But obviously we'll take those recommendations

00:51:48.240 --> 00:51:52.360
 back to the city manager's office to see if they have anything additional that they'd

00:51:52.360 --> 00:52:00.640
 like to discuss with us as a team, as a committee and as staff. But happy to move forward with

00:52:00.640 --> 00:52:15.460
 whatever your recommendation is. Well, I'll say that since you missed a few of these meetings,

00:52:15.460 --> 00:52:22.360
 which I don't I think is maybe about three. I actually think you've only been in attendance

00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:32.760
 at two since you've been on the committee. And so with that, I believe you've missed

00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:43.840
 possibly five or six. Oh Lord. We live. Let's move on. So with that being said, you know,

00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:50.920
 I'm just kind of teasing on that part. But with that being said, I'm wondering if we

00:52:50.920 --> 00:53:00.500
 can compromise in that you stay on the committee and we move the time and you let us know when

00:53:00.500 --> 00:53:07.120
 you're going to be able to make it. And we may sacrifice that particular time when we

00:53:07.120 --> 00:53:15.480
 know that you're going to be here. That might be, you know, I don't know, two or three or

00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:21.720
 four or five times that you will be here. You know, what is our stance in regards to

00:53:21.720 --> 00:53:35.640
 members making it to the committee members meetings? Do we have Mr. Lawyer rules regarding

00:53:35.640 --> 00:53:48.480
 uses for City Council members? I mean, we know we got forum stuff that Mayor Pro Tem

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:55.920
 and I have been making the many meetings. And we've been able to hold the meetings because

00:53:55.920 --> 00:54:03.200
 of the quarrel. And so it hasn't been necessarily a big deal. But if we're talking about moving

00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:09.720
 the time, is he going to be most likely be here or most likely not be able to make it

00:54:09.720 --> 00:54:18.520
 if we move to nine o'clock or if we even stay at eight o'clock? What's your schedule like

00:54:18.520 --> 00:54:23.920
 if you're if you know that you're most likely not going to be here, which if there's nothing

00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:33.320
 wrong with that, because we'll have a quarrel, then I'll go on going on in compromising in

00:54:33.320 --> 00:54:37.320
 allowing us to put it at nine. But if on the times when you know that you're going to be

00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:44.840
 here, then we can compromise and make sure that we hear at eight o'clock for you. That's

00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:50.600
 the way I think. Yeah, and I'm happy to check with the city secretary's office to make sure

00:54:50.600 --> 00:54:55.920
 that the so what I understand if I'm hearing you correctly, and I know Councilmember McGee

00:54:55.920 --> 00:55:00.440
 obviously has a work schedule he's trying to work around so completely understand that

00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:05.740
 if I'm hearing you correctly, move the time to nine a.m. unless Councilmember McGee can

00:55:05.740 --> 00:55:10.440
 confirm he can be here. And what I would just tell you on the confirmation, we could block

00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:15.000
 the room as long as it's available in the city secretary's office allows us to do that.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.320
 But the publishing and postings and cancellation of this meeting have a weekend at least a

00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:24.200
 week in advance. So this would all be published on Friday. So he would have to be able to

00:55:24.200 --> 00:55:29.160
 confirm Thursday or Friday if he's going to be here for the following Wednesday night,

00:55:29.160 --> 00:55:34.800
 I just want to make sure you're aware of that in case for some reason, you're not available

00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:39.680
 or aware to know that that far in advance. I don't I don't know anything about your work

00:55:39.680 --> 00:55:45.920
 schedule or your business and I want to be respectful of that. The weeks that we have

00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:52.040
 council on Tuesdays, it makes it extremely difficult for me to make the meeting the next

00:55:52.040 --> 00:55:57.680
 day only because I thank God for my job. They have given me tremendous latitude with allowing

00:55:57.680 --> 00:56:02.000
 me to do this. I will not continue to go back to the well because I want to be respectful

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:07.280
 of the fact that we do have business and I have customer obligations. So if we have a

00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:14.880
 council on a Tuesday, I'm very difficult for me to also come in, go in late on Wednesday,

00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.040
 albeit even an hour later because I have to meet my customer obligations. The weeks that

00:56:19.040 --> 00:56:25.000
 we don't have council, I have a little more flexibility because I can sub my Tuesday for

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:30.480
 Wednesday half a day. That makes sense. So the weeks we don't have council, it makes

00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:35.440
 it easier for me to do it 9am because I missed the Tuesday before that Wednesday meeting.

00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:41.240
 Does that make sense? But if we have the Wednesday right after the Tuesday and hour later, that's

00:56:41.240 --> 00:56:46.480
 probably going to be a no. Does that make sense? Yes it does. It makes sense to me.

00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:55.760
 So what if, I'm sorry, go ahead. I like to give. No, I'm flexible so I'm trying not to

00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:01.280
 insert too much. I'm okay with whatever, I mean you're running the meeting and you're

00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:07.720
 the one with the scheduling conflict so I'm trying not to insert too much because my schedule

00:57:07.720 --> 00:57:14.020
 is going from very tight to very flexible this month. Can I just say, I can't wait

00:57:14.020 --> 00:57:17.880
 to be retired one day. I can't wait to be in this situation. It looks nice from over

00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:25.480
 here. Oh yeah, it is. So would you like for us to evaluate the calendar based on the future

00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:31.080
 council calendar to see when those meetings are? Most of the time they're typically the

00:57:31.080 --> 00:57:36.040
 second and fourth Tuesday. We're currently on the fourth Wednesday of the month to see

00:57:36.040 --> 00:57:41.480
 if we moved and if the room is available for the third Wednesday of the month and then

00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:46.520
 moving to 9 a.m. and we could bring that back at the December meeting and make those decisions

00:57:46.520 --> 00:57:51.480
 at that time for the January meeting. Does our schedule typically need two and four for

00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:57.400
 council? Yes. Let not. Because a couple of them, I know a couple of them are different.

00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:02.520
 Not always consistently. Like this we miss one, December is different. Right, so December

00:58:02.520 --> 00:58:07.840
 we're meeting the fifth and the 12th just simply because of the council. I mean because

00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:12.600
 of Christmas holiday but we could look at that and try to compare to see if there's

00:58:12.600 --> 00:58:17.720
 a happy medium and you can also always skip a monthly meeting if you have to if there

00:58:17.720 --> 00:58:24.320
 is you know in July there's some times that y'all take the time off or the council agenda

00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:29.120
 is a little bit less. So we could look to see if there's a balance that could come from

00:58:29.120 --> 00:58:38.720
 that. That reminds me I will be out the entire and it's germane to this issue because we're

00:58:38.720 --> 00:58:43.720
 meeting quorum with Vicki and I, Council Burt and I. So I will be out the entire month of

00:58:43.720 --> 00:58:49.640
 July. Okay. So there will be no no time in July for any committee or the council where

00:58:49.640 --> 00:58:58.680
 I will be available. So in July we're scheduled to meet two and three and four the third and

00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:09.640
 fourth week council is. So 16th and the 23rd. Interesting. Okay well so if maybe if we met

00:59:09.640 --> 00:59:18.040
 on the 31st. Yeah so yeah I got to go through all that of course. What I would propose is

00:59:18.040 --> 00:59:24.640
 that we have the council or that we have the council calendar through the year we can go

00:59:24.640 --> 00:59:29.440
 in and put those calendars maybe with it that color with a different color in a different

00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:36.160
 shape on the entire calendar and work to make sure it's all about a room availability and

00:59:36.160 --> 00:59:41.960
 then obviously the ability to be live and we can take that and review it to see if we

00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:48.920
 can find a way that we can find a solution. Yes sir that's fine. No you're fine to move

00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:56.180
 to a different time and day that might work more flexible with the council calendar. Does

00:59:56.180 --> 01:00:01.680
 that make sense? I'm good with that. I'm good with that. I think that that's just be a healthy

01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:09.360
 compromise for this young man to you know stay stay on this committee and for us allowing

01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:15.560
 him to do that. So that's what we can do. I suppose if we if there we can reach an accommodation

01:00:15.560 --> 01:00:21.300
 then he can make the decision on whether he wants to stay on the committee or not. Yes

01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:26.340
 I think that that will make sense and then we can also look at the terms to understand

01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:31.780
 when the terms are actually up to and how that impacts the overall yearly calendar too.

01:00:31.780 --> 01:00:39.000
 So that way you have the full picture. The whole picture that's what we need. Okay. Okay

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:42.800
 well I think I have everything I need for this item. Okay. Ben I don't know if you had

01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:52.320
 anything you were gonna add. You're good. To your question yes I guess three three unexcused

01:00:52.320 --> 01:01:01.980
 absences are I guess considered cause under the charter. Okay and then I'm the chair would

01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:08.600
 have to initiate that. Does that come through the city? I think since it's appointed by

01:01:08.600 --> 01:01:15.160
 the board. Okay so the chair. Okay all right thank you. Okay. Oh I'm sorry. Would you

01:01:15.160 --> 01:01:22.160
 repeat that for Councilor. Oh okay we were talking about that. Under the section under

01:01:22.160 --> 01:01:31.200
 the city code of chapter 2 it's three absences for members. It's considered cause. It can't

01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:39.320
 be considered cause for removal under the charter. And so that was just a response to

01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:46.000
 chair's question. If that is the will of the body I understand. No no not I mean it's the

01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.360
 full body. Yeah the full body. So I mean hey. And that was situated long before we got here.

01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:53.040
 Council we already know council's not designed for regular folks. It's not for rich folks

01:01:53.040 --> 01:01:58.320
 and retired folks. So I understand that. I will be happy to adjust if council decides

01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:03.600
 to appoint somebody else. So Councilmember McGee just so you are aware what we discussed

01:02:03.600 --> 01:02:09.280
 and will bring back in December is taking the calendar putting the future council dates

01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:14.440
 on here that are already currently scheduled. We have that for the year looking at the terms

01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:22.560
 to when these modifications might be made based on if there's new council elections

01:02:22.560 --> 01:02:27.720
 and then also trying to find that happy medium to make sure the rooms available and be on

01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:31.320
 the Wednesday where there's not a council meeting looking at possibly 9 o'clock is the

01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:37.800
 start time. So we'll bring that back in December. That would absolutely be amenable. Okay wonderful

01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:47.920
 thank you all for the discussion. All right so we're going to move on to DMC 23-050 staff

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:56.240
 memorandums. There was a short person up here before. Good morning Trevor Crane director

01:02:56.240 --> 01:03:00.960
 of capital projects. So I'll start off with a couple of project updates and then I'll

01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:06.400
 hand it off. So we'll make this a little bigger. So starting off with Bonnie Bray. So Bonnie

01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:12.720
 Bray phase three that is currently under construction started last month. So the contractor has

01:03:12.720 --> 01:03:18.360
 mobilized and has started work. Project has a 30 month construction schedule so a little

01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:25.080
 while but we're starting work and you starting to move on on that project. Bonnie Bray phase

01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:31.200
 six so we're looking to advertise for bids. Probably going to be either late this month

01:03:31.200 --> 01:03:36.960
 we may hold off advertising to Q1 of next year just because during the holidays we get

01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:42.080
 a lot of design I mean contractors that aren't really paying attention so we want to make

01:03:42.080 --> 01:03:47.540
 sure we get good coverage on that. So we may consider moving that and starting that advertisement

01:03:47.540 --> 01:03:52.720
 beginning of next year. So we're working on right of way and rearrangement agreements with

01:03:52.720 --> 01:03:57.560
 Eagle Ridge which will allow us to get our state letter of authority from TxDOT which

01:03:57.560 --> 01:04:05.280
 allows us to bid. So once that project starts we have an estimated two year construction

01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:15.000
 schedule and we're anticipating that starting like I said late Q1 or early Q2 of next year.

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:20.760
 Hickory Creek phase three so that project is currently we had to put on hold we're working

01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:25.440
 through an issue with the railroad right now. So we're anticipating that being resolved

01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:32.800
 here in the next couple weeks and the contractor remobilizing back on site in January. We don't

01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:38.720
 foresee that affecting the total schedule too much maybe just a month or two but once

01:04:38.720 --> 01:04:45.640
 we get them back on we'll be ready to rock and roll and start construction on that again.

01:04:45.640 --> 01:04:51.720
 Any questions on Bonnie Bray or Hickory Creek three before I turn it over to my counterparts.

01:04:51.720 --> 01:04:58.400
 I don't have any questions. You don't have any questions? Yes. So that was the alignment

01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:06.400
 on Hickory Creek was for the railroad issue that was well you know what I tell you what

01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:12.880
 I will refresh my memory and then I'll reach out to Becky. Yeah so we're actually the bridge

01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:17.520
 is going over the railroad so the issue we're working through is we're actually decommissioning

01:05:17.520 --> 01:05:23.200
 that crossing as a part of the project in order for us to get on their property to do

01:05:23.200 --> 01:05:27.480
 the work we need to do we need an agreement with the railroad which we're working through

01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:32.000
 right now. So the issue really the big issue was Kansas City Southern got bought out by

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:36.840
 Canadian right when we were about to get the agreement agreed to and so they had to send

01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:44.360
 it all the way back through their new legal team so. Do that we have the same I know UPR

01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:51.280
 is a pain on the two for one which I think I will say publicly and on the mic is BS but

01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:58.880
 yeah I don't care what we get. So this one's actually a little bit. Are we going to be

01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:08.160
 able to bank this as a closure? We will use that in the future if we can but if it works

01:06:08.160 --> 01:06:15.960
 it's yet to be seen. Do we generally try to bank closures? So normally we try to do them

01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:20.720
 at the same time so that we will say hey we're closing these two we want to get this one

01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:25.960
 or we're closing these three. Normally we don't just close them without having something

01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:32.460
 in mind to to open a new one. So this is a first for me usually we're trying to add one

01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:36.600
 so we're scrambling trying to find other ones we can close. And do the other railroads have

01:06:36.600 --> 01:06:43.360
 the same two for one? Yes two or three. Their goal is really safety and so the safest railroad

01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:47.840
 is one where no one's track no one's crossing it which doesn't necessarily work for other

01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:53.960
 mobility so. I appreciate that thank you. Great thank you. You have any questions? Before

01:06:53.960 --> 01:06:57.960
 you go. Oh come on. The beard looks great. Thank you man I appreciate it. Friday's coming

01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.920
 are you getting rid of it? Um I've been thinking about it but I'll probably let it keep going.

01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:07.340
 I like that good man. Yeah. Grow and since I couldn't grow live vicariously. I love it

01:07:07.340 --> 01:07:26.560
 thank you. Morning Chandra senior engineer transportation services. I'm here to present

01:07:26.560 --> 01:07:32.480
 on existing school facilities and traffic issues. We don't have any policy but as a

01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:38.840
 procedure we address safety congestion and queuing issues around schools based on complaints

01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:44.840
 from primarily from citizens via engagement and or social networks or if there is any

01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:50.280
 issues from the schools they approach us then we go and make observations during the morning

01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:58.520
 drop off pick up hours on a fairly typical day for a normal periods and we have discussing

01:07:58.520 --> 01:08:05.920
 with the school staff or school principal or the transportation or school safety officers

01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:12.160
 who are in charge for those schools to find out what issues they have and follow up with

01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:18.560
 our recommendations based on our field observations and if it's major changes then we would sit

01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:24.880
 down with the businesses or churches anything nearby to address what we can do or stagger

01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:31.600
 operations from schools point of view so that's typically our procedure from existing schools

01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:41.280
 and we implement based on input from everybody and for newer schools I'll pass on to Karina

01:08:41.280 --> 01:08:50.080
 for new months like high school and that comes along. Yeah. No question. Sure. So I understand

01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:59.520
 that in it at the end these improvements could be and you give a laundry list. In general

01:08:59.520 --> 01:09:08.040
 I mean is it is the is you know considering reversing traffic where would we be thinking

01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:13.080
 about which schools and things would I mean I'm trying to nail you down to a solution

01:09:13.080 --> 01:09:19.000
 set because the whole point of this item is we figure out a solution to that school's

01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:27.920
 issues. But I'm trying to understand I can't I'm not envisioning anywhere in town where

01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:34.360
 traffic reversals would work and so that's what's giving me pause you know some of the

01:09:34.360 --> 01:09:40.680
 one ways and staggerings and lanes and all that is more standard stuff but I'm not because

01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:46.200
 y'all brought it up I'm trying to think where would you pull the trigger on that tool in

01:09:46.200 --> 01:09:52.980
 any of the schools in town. One of them in my past this is my second round in city of

01:09:52.980 --> 01:10:02.240
 Denton. Three years ago before covid we considered around King's Row and we did not implement

01:10:02.240 --> 01:10:08.800
 because it was not favorable and also it is a complete like a learning experience residents

01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:14.960
 how to drive around. So it's an option in the toolbox but it won't fit for every situations

01:10:14.960 --> 01:10:21.040
 but that's an option. You know I understand it's it's you know I guess what I'm asking

01:10:21.040 --> 01:10:31.680
 is do we envision that is a solution that is if there's a 0.0001 likelihood of pulling

01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:36.480
 screwdriver out of the toolbox then I'm not going to bother talking to not bother but

01:10:36.480 --> 01:10:42.160
 I'm going to not end up spending a lot of time communicating with citizens that this

01:10:42.160 --> 01:10:47.560
 is an option but if we think there's a chance that that will be used then I guarantee you

01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:53.360
 there will be a lot of concerned about where and how that works. So I understand we want

01:10:53.360 --> 01:11:05.360
 to cross that bridge possibly pun intended when we come to it but I guess when we do

01:11:05.360 --> 01:11:12.460
 come to that I'm going to ask for a lot of lead time and a lot of description and I mean

01:11:12.460 --> 01:11:17.920
 way more than you would for other things because I can see the public going crazy on something

01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:22.760
 like that is they don't understand and it will require a lot of education outreach and

01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:28.680
 training if that's the tool. Now I'm not trying to dissuade you from using that tool but like

01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:33.160
 I just can't vision where we would put that in any of the schools that I'm aware of so

01:11:33.160 --> 01:11:45.720
 maybe a lot of education would be involved in that is what I mean. Sure definitely. You

01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:53.880
 know as you're speaking I'm thinking here in regards to working with the schools I don't

01:11:53.880 --> 01:12:03.400
 believe that we would have a difficult time with didn't ISD you know accepting recommendations

01:12:03.400 --> 01:12:08.960
 you know in that regard and the odd thing is is that when you were talking initially

01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:16.200
 I was thinking about the King's Row people and my question to you all is since we've

01:12:16.200 --> 01:12:22.280
 had that big conversation I guess it must have been last year or year before last in

01:12:22.280 --> 01:12:30.080
 regards to the parents picking up in the cars backing out onto 288 now that we've gone past

01:12:30.080 --> 01:12:35.640
 the COVID situation are we still experiencing those kinds of things around in that area

01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:41.200
 or has it kind of slowed down are we back to normal or what I just hadn't heard anything.

01:12:41.200 --> 01:12:46.520
 I just got back into the city. Were you the one that was kind of dealing with that? Yes.

01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:52.880
 Before COVID and right after COVID and after two years hiatus I'm just back. Okay okay

01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:56.520
 well it's good to have you back. Sure thank you. Councilmember Bird I can speak a little

01:12:56.520 --> 01:13:01.800
 bit to that we have currently not heard any additional conversations or communication

01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:07.320
 with that area in great depth there is a lot of conversation that's happening with the

01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:11.800
 development community in that area and Karina can speak maybe to some of that when she's

01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:16.800
 talking about her portion on new facilities but I will tell you that Chandra along with

01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:24.280
 several others worked very hard to try to find new routes and new ways to facilitate

01:13:24.280 --> 01:13:29.280
 with that school with the principal with the bus pickup and the difference between you

01:13:29.280 --> 01:13:35.040
 know the K through two versus the three through five and the time frames associated with that

01:13:35.040 --> 01:13:39.880
 where the facilities made sense as far as where the actual buildings are located for

01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:44.560
 pickup and drop off and so there have been a lot of conversations there were modifications

01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:49.960
 made to some of the signing and signaling in that area and at this time we haven't heard

01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:55.120
 a whole lot of additional conversation and it seems to be working very smoothly at this

01:13:55.120 --> 01:14:01.840
 point so I know that there is obviously a lot of a lot of development that's going to

01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:09.160
 be continuing to happen that area also keep in mind there was a traffic signal that was

01:14:09.160 --> 01:14:15.440
 completed in that area where there were some work done in that area to redo that intersection

01:14:15.440 --> 01:14:20.840
 and so that did help and improve from text dot's perspective on the loop so but of course

01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:24.960
 if there are continued questions or concerns that come up I know transportation services

01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:32.400
 will work through that so yes sir yeah I just comment I have and so what I'll do is I'll

01:14:32.400 --> 01:14:36.960
 chat with you guys offline about some of the feedback that I've received so we don't take

01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:47.240
 time okay thank you thank you sure let me move this down all right Karina Maldonado

01:14:47.240 --> 01:14:53.280
 transportation planner with transportation services so I'll kind of jump back to Chandra's

01:14:53.280 --> 01:14:57.880
 topic and some of the questions that you asked so in relation to that tool in our toolbox

01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:04.720
 for reversing flow to assist a school if that situation were to come up we would probably

01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:12.400
 ask for some sort of traffic study to assist in identifying whether it does work not just

01:15:12.400 --> 01:15:17.040
 for the school in the general area but the traffic distribution around it and so that's

01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:23.720
 a similar situation to the the school hodge elementary off Kings Row that was the situation

01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:28.480
 where the development came in we knew about traffic issues with the elementary and so

01:15:28.480 --> 01:15:33.440
 that was part of their traffic study was to assess it so it wasn't DISD but it was the

01:15:33.440 --> 01:15:41.320
 development that did that so with that I'll jump back into how we handle coordination

01:15:41.320 --> 01:15:49.160
 with DISD and the other universities if they were to come in with a new facility or even

01:15:49.160 --> 01:15:56.000
 an expansion of a facility so that's still an option so we regularly work with those

01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:01.040
 entities DISD and the universities through a pre-development process so I think you're

01:16:01.040 --> 01:16:06.240
 aware through development services of our pre-application meetings so once you know

01:16:06.240 --> 01:16:11.360
 they come in with a new school idea I'll say Ronnie Road Elementary is a good example of

01:16:11.360 --> 01:16:16.680
 the latest one in Denton High School so they'll come in we'll look at their preliminary layout

01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:21.480
 and we'll give them feedback from a traffic perspective we will look at their access points

01:16:21.480 --> 01:16:26.760
 their circulation their stacking especially based on their timing of school pickup and

01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:33.520
 drop off their bus loops as well as employee parking so we do take a more thorough look

01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:39.360
 up front to make sure that we're capturing that I'll say Denton High School's probably

01:16:39.360 --> 01:16:45.320
 the latest example of the development review process and us going through evaluating traffic

01:16:45.320 --> 01:16:49.680
 flows and entry points and so I think maybe some minor hiccups but it's always a learning

01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:57.960
 process so with that through the development process they're also responsible for complying

01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:02.800
 particularly DISD not so much the universities but they're responsible for complying with

01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:08.360
 our Denton Development Code our criteria manual that's applicable at the time of submittals

01:17:08.360 --> 01:17:13.800
 our mobility plan and any other industry standards so that is the process that we follow with

01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:25.240
 new facilities. Do we have a current expectation since we bring

01:17:25.240 --> 01:17:35.440
 up Denton High School and the new Riney Elementary whatever it's going to be called but what

01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:39.320
 is the functional name? Riney Road Elementary is that what we're calling that project? That's

01:17:39.320 --> 01:17:43.480
 the project name we've used through the development process that I don't know that that's necessary

01:17:43.480 --> 01:17:49.400
 to name them after the fact so the Riney Road Elementary Denton High School I get a lot

01:17:49.400 --> 01:17:56.560
 of concerned questions about traffic flow up and down Bonnie Bray I know that's nothing

01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:09.540
 new y'all feel tons of that I looked around and do we have a I know we don't like to get

01:18:09.540 --> 01:18:20.080
 tied to particular stop signs and control access mechanisms until later in the process

01:18:20.080 --> 01:18:27.640
 because it has there's some expectation management you're trying to do with the public where

01:18:27.640 --> 01:18:33.200
 you don't want to tell them something that isn't coming in but I will tell you some of

01:18:33.200 --> 01:18:37.960
 the heartburn from the public is because they don't know what's coming in and they see the

01:18:37.960 --> 01:18:47.880
 fog of war only and it looks like that outer loop map oh sorry and so what I guess what

01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:54.880
 I'm saying is do we have a best practices guide to how we're going to treat North Bonnie

01:18:54.880 --> 01:19:02.440
 Bray you know in an ideal world where you're saying you're telling the public what these

01:19:02.440 --> 01:19:06.880
 are the options that we think we're exploring we're not nailing it down I know we don't

01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:12.680
 like to do that but I think a lot of the heartburn is the public I'm getting sort of feedback

01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:18.120
 that makes me think the public thinks we're doing nothing even though we're not we're

01:19:18.120 --> 01:19:22.160
 doing a lot of things we just haven't nailed it down to where you feel comfortable telling

01:19:22.160 --> 01:19:29.920
 the public so all you know Windsor Reiny Road Bonnie Bray the traffic flow patterns we hear

01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:33.880
 a lot of the options here in this committee the traffic safety committee the former traffic

01:19:33.880 --> 01:19:39.000
 safety committee heard some of that development services and so I guess what I'm asking for

01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:49.120
 is on discussed dent or somewhere that the council can point to could we get what we

01:19:49.120 --> 01:19:55.960
 would like to have aspirational goals for some of these areas so that the public sees

01:19:55.960 --> 01:20:01.800
 oh and I know it's gonna there's the potential to get in trouble quote-unquote with the public

01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:09.280
 because then they'll yell about those aspirational goals but I still think it's that responding

01:20:09.280 --> 01:20:16.760
 to that disquiet is better than responding to the uncertainty of telling them nothing

01:20:16.760 --> 01:20:21.720
 and so is there is I guess that's a long-winded preamble is there something we could get to

01:20:21.720 --> 01:20:26.860
 where we can you know narrow the funnel a little bit and tell them yeah we're the team

01:20:26.860 --> 01:20:31.080
 is on top of this we're not doing nothing and I think that's what I'm trying to ask

01:20:31.080 --> 01:20:35.700
 for especially for Bonnie Bray especially for Kings Row these are these are problem children

01:20:35.700 --> 01:20:41.680
 areas so I I can't speak on the process that you're I think what I'm picking up is is you're

01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:47.160
 asking for more public input during the site design process and feedback to the public

01:20:47.160 --> 01:20:52.880
 okay feedback to the public since this is DISD and our zoning regulations require that

01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:56.640
 they're they're permitted by right and so they would follow our standard development

01:20:56.640 --> 01:21:02.680
 review process and currently the the process is administrative it doesn't go through council

01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:10.520
 at any point shy of changing that development code and requiring more public comment on

01:21:10.520 --> 01:21:16.360
 that type of application there really isn't a mechanism at this time however we could

01:21:16.360 --> 01:21:23.160
 suggest or recommend that DISD has more community meetings to allow that feedback to come in

01:21:23.160 --> 01:21:29.440
 but but the way that our process works now is because they come in by right through an

01:21:29.440 --> 01:21:37.240
 administrative process there's no specific use permit required we've we evaluate their

01:21:37.240 --> 01:21:44.720
 design based on current standards unless there was some sort of criteria manual for DISD

01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:49.120
 that's another new process that would have to be created yeah I think it's too too dense

01:21:49.120 --> 01:21:55.960
 to too too much of the standard process that I'm not trying to we should do that I think

01:21:55.960 --> 01:22:03.840
 this is more is there is there a roadmap kind of concept so that and again I make the analogy

01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:09.960
 to the outer loop fog like that's what the public sees and that that gives them heartburn

01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:15.240
 if you were to say when we started nailing down and again I'm on topic because I'm using

01:22:15.240 --> 01:22:24.400
 this as analogy I felt Ben but as soon as we nailed down Milam and the bridge and the

01:22:24.400 --> 01:22:29.560
 other connection I can't remember out to the east for the outer loop people started to

01:22:29.560 --> 01:22:33.520
 feel more comfortable because there was predicted but they understood where it was headed and

01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:38.960
 so I guess what I'm saying is do we have a thing that the council can refer the public

01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:45.560
 to that says okay in situations where two arterials come together we anticipate we would

01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:50.400
 use these options and rainy road we might use these options we don't know which and

01:22:50.400 --> 01:22:54.520
 you know here's five option but so I know it's going to depend on the final design plan

01:22:54.520 --> 01:23:00.080
 but I'm trying to get the heartburn of the public lowered yep absolutely so Trevor Crane

01:23:00.080 --> 01:23:05.600
 director of capital projects so I would say I would point them to our general standards

01:23:05.600 --> 01:23:10.280
 you know mobility plan first that tells you kind of what that roadways supposed to be

01:23:10.280 --> 01:23:15.720
 arterial collector you know whatever then in our general and our standard specifications

01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:21.960
 and standard details it it tells you what a standard arterial will look like whether

01:23:21.960 --> 01:23:27.240
 it's four lanes two lanes all those types of things so going back to Bonnie break the

01:23:27.240 --> 01:23:33.400
 intent was you know we we we had those conversations with the ISD prior to them building that school

01:23:33.400 --> 01:23:37.880
 the high school so the intent was to have Bonnie Bray completed before that school was

01:23:37.880 --> 01:23:42.080
 was done obviously didn't happen a lot of federal funds were involved in that a lot

01:23:42.080 --> 01:23:47.520
 of hoops to jump through so now we're kind of getting there so the intent is to have

01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:53.280
 Ronnie Road east done before Ronnie Road elementary school and that's that came about with communication

01:23:53.280 --> 01:23:58.360
 with the ISD they put off building that school for another you know an extra year so that

01:23:58.360 --> 01:24:02.920
 we could get all that infrastructure in first I would say so that's always the intent we

01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:07.760
 want to get there before the schools get there so that the infrastructure is there because

01:24:07.760 --> 01:24:12.120
 we know they're going to build a school there after the fact I would point them you know

01:24:12.120 --> 01:24:16.880
 just to discuss didn't once we get to a certain point in those design plans like now on Bonnie

01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:21.720
 Bray six I'm very comfortable telling people hey this is what that's going to look like

01:24:21.720 --> 01:24:25.000
 this is where we're going to have traffic signals this is where we're going to have

01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:28.480
 stop signs and actually I've been fielding calls on that you know in the last month or

01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:36.360
 two so no issues with that if there's questions specific like Bonnie Bray six we have a place

01:24:36.360 --> 01:24:40.240
 on discuss then where you can ask a project manager hey can you tell me if there's going

01:24:40.240 --> 01:24:44.660
 to be a traffic signal at you know Ronnie Road and Bonnie Bray absolutely we can give

01:24:44.660 --> 01:24:49.240
 you that information so that's where I would kind of point there so the intent is always

01:24:49.240 --> 01:24:55.440
 for us to get there prior and have that infrastructure in for the school system but we're happy to

01:24:55.440 --> 01:25:01.600
 share that information and even you know even if we don't have 60% 100% plans we can easily

01:25:01.600 --> 01:25:05.440
 give you know point people to our details and say this is what the intent is this is

01:25:05.440 --> 01:25:09.880
 what we're trying to build kind of like we talked through you know with the bond 2023

01:25:09.880 --> 01:25:13.200
 bond this is what we'd like to build I don't know until I get out there and start looking

01:25:13.200 --> 01:25:17.400
 at right away and those types of things but this is what our mobility plan tells us to

01:25:17.400 --> 01:25:20.400
 build this is where we're trying to get to and that's something we work through with

01:25:20.400 --> 01:25:24.320
 our transportation planning where they kind of go through that planning piece and saying

01:25:24.320 --> 01:25:27.640
 hey this is what it needs to look like and then we get a hold of it and say well this

01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:30.880
 is what we can do because we got right away and those types of things so it's kind of

01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:36.620
 that back and forth if I can make a recommendation in the age of self-service on the internet

01:25:36.620 --> 01:25:42.840
 that we all enjoy if I can make the recommendation if you get the same question more than twice

01:25:42.840 --> 01:25:47.840
 that that becomes an FAQ right that's the way I handle my desk at UT and if you get

01:25:47.840 --> 01:25:53.440
 this if you get as much things as you can put on a map that they can go okay I feel

01:25:53.440 --> 01:25:59.200
 better now and walk away you may you may avoid questions and get 20% of your workday back

01:25:59.200 --> 01:26:03.840
 again and I know that's the goal yeah absolutely no that's great we'll take that appreciate

01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:08.060
 it and the only thing I would add is Trevor just gave a presentation recently to the Planning

01:26:08.060 --> 01:26:13.520
 and Zoning Commission that talked a lot about what's happening really north of 380 south

01:26:13.520 --> 01:26:20.340
 of 77 kind of in that entire area there's a lot of parts and pieces to I-35 connection

01:26:20.340 --> 01:26:27.560
 to Windsor Windsor Westgate Bonnie Bray Riney Road there's a lot of things happening in

01:26:27.560 --> 01:26:33.560
 that kind of triangular portion of the town and so maybe one of the things to Trevor

01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:38.920
 we can consider is adding that presentation to discuss Denton if bare minimum even just

01:26:38.920 --> 01:26:43.620
 the picture that shows all the roadway projects because we know that they're all connecting

01:26:43.620 --> 01:26:47.280
 because we're working on them every day and we know you can go to each individual discuss

01:26:47.280 --> 01:26:52.120
 Denton page but there actually is a map that's been created that shows all of that information

01:26:52.120 --> 01:26:56.840
 which I think would help share the story no I think that's excellent and I was I know

01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:02.640
 we have the mobility map but it doesn't have everything y'all know so anyway thank you

01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:05.720
 and that's kind of bridging the gap just to be completely honest with you the mobility

01:27:05.720 --> 01:27:10.720
 plan is one document it's a planning level document Trevor's plans are construction level

01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:15.720
 plans but there is that gap of putting together here's what that whole picture looks like

01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:20.720
 with all of these different projects taking that mobility plan from a plan to reality

01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:24.600
 so I think that will help with that conversation I appreciate that thank you absolutely and

01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:33.480
 then the also the other part of that is you know having the city to really push people

01:27:33.480 --> 01:27:40.040
 and also city council members when we speak to our constituents and seems like they want

01:27:40.040 --> 01:27:46.320
 to somebody else to give them you do the research and give them the answer and if we can do

01:27:46.320 --> 01:27:52.440
 a better job and saying hey that's on discussed in but then when you go to discuss Denton

01:27:52.440 --> 01:27:58.240
 the communication and the ease you know the kindergarten level push button in my head frequently

01:27:58.240 --> 01:28:04.560
 asked question you know thing is right there at the front closer to the front so I'll certainly

01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:11.200
 charge the city with marketing discussed didn't at a higher level I think I had mentioned

01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:15.000
 something about putting it on a billboard discussed in dot com you know as you're coming

01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:21.200
 in to the city but that was certainly I would I would definitely want to charge the city

01:28:21.200 --> 01:28:25.680
 we're doing that thank you for bringing that up because I had that in my head somewhere

01:28:25.680 --> 01:28:34.000
 deep down in there that's probably coagulated a little bit in there so to come get back

01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:40.660
 to where we were ma'am please and did you have anything all right so let's go ahead

01:28:40.660 --> 01:28:45.800
 all right there were you done yes that was the end of the topic questions thank you thank

01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:52.360
 you very much I'll stick up here just for shy bit longer so back in September the mobility

01:28:52.360 --> 01:28:59.200
 committee requested some information generally about bicycle etiquette I kind of expanded

01:28:59.200 --> 01:29:03.980
 that to bicycle pedestrian etiquette the topic came up related to the facility north of

01:29:03.980 --> 01:29:10.680
 us here on Parkway the multi-use path with bollards how to navigate that and then generally

01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:17.400
 how to navigate other facilities that also have bollards so without reading through the

01:29:17.400 --> 01:29:23.000
 pretty lengthy description I thought it would be best to assist in providing you with the

01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:30.520
 visual because I know I work better with the visuals if you tell me left and right my brain

01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:36.420
 starts to blink out so what I did here is I provided the facility on screen for you

01:29:36.420 --> 01:29:43.800
 this is I believe this is at Elm and Parkway could be wrong it might be Locust but nonetheless

01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:50.520
 it is on Parkway so this is that multi-use path that was proposed as a pilot project

01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:57.920
 in the city of Denton it is a on-street multi-use path it is intended for shared use for bicycles

01:29:57.920 --> 01:30:04.720
 and pedestrians so it is not intended to be solely a bike lane it is a bidirectional facility

01:30:04.720 --> 01:30:10.760
 for pedestrian cyclists and micro mobility so if someone wants to go on their scooter

01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:17.840
 they could use that facility so that facility runs from Carroll Boulevard to Congress Street

01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:24.520
 as a shared path so navigating I thought would be best obviously we know it is bidirectional

01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:29.700
 you would use the entire facility to walk through or cycle through but at the terminus

01:30:29.700 --> 01:30:35.320
 is where there is potential confusion with how to enter exit the facility so at Carroll

01:30:35.320 --> 01:30:44.600
 Boulevard / Parkway sorry this is on the west end I provided some yellow maybe that was

01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:50.400
 not the best color but a yellow arrow to just show if someone was trying to exit the facility

01:30:50.400 --> 01:30:59.680
 going westbound they would use the crosswalk to then go west to west of Carroll if they

01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:05.720
 were to and same if they were coming from that direction wanting to enter north eastbound

01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:10.880
 they would again use the crosswalk the crosswalk facility so the push signal there they would

01:31:10.880 --> 01:31:19.800
 use that to safely cross Carroll and then coming from the south again using that facility in

01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:24.680
 for cyclists it might be slightly different there is no specific bicycle facility but

01:31:24.680 --> 01:31:29.440
 we do have a state law and a safe passing ordinance that does allow cyclists to take

01:31:29.440 --> 01:31:36.360
 the full lane if someone was bold enough to take the full lane on Carroll they could enter

01:31:36.360 --> 01:31:42.720
 through at the intersection cross preferably at the crosswalk and then enter the facility

01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:49.520
 to go eastbound so making the way towards the eastern terminus of the project this is

01:31:49.520 --> 01:31:57.640
 where congress aligns with the one way into the parking lot for Emily Fowler north of

01:31:57.640 --> 01:32:05.320
 this intersection Oakland becomes a share so it is a shared facility so a cyclist would

01:32:05.320 --> 01:32:11.800
 use that facility northbound and would take the lane vehicles would have to safely pass

01:32:11.800 --> 01:32:20.720
 around but in terms of the facility cyclists congress is also a shared lane with Cheryl

01:32:20.720 --> 01:32:26.240
 markings so if a cyclist was wanting to enter the facility from this direction they would

01:32:26.240 --> 01:32:32.600
 just be on street turn movements and if they're wanting to go northbound and continue their

01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:40.240
 path they would be recommended to do so at that crosswalk before entering the lane so

01:32:40.240 --> 01:32:48.120
 that is the preferred usage at that end we do understand that there may be a need for

01:32:48.120 --> 01:32:53.280
 additional signage or pavement markings to assist with that so we'll have that discussion

01:32:53.280 --> 01:32:59.800
 internally to evaluate it and see where those locations would be needed there are Cheryl

01:32:59.800 --> 01:33:06.560
 markings today and we have to do we do have to comply with signage standards so MUTCD

01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:13.720
 we stumble on that so we'll just we can evaluate that if there continues to be some confusion

01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:21.440
 related to entering and exiting but that would be the path for Parkway Oakland facility and

01:33:21.440 --> 01:33:26.560
 for pedestrians it's the same they would cross at the crosswalk I will point that it might

01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:30.760
 be a bit confusing here because there's a it appears to be a double crossing but this

01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:36.080
 is for the shared path whereas this is an existing sidewalk crossing so pedestrians

01:33:36.080 --> 01:33:42.260
 would use the sidewalk crossing and so before I jump into other facilities do you have questions

01:33:42.260 --> 01:33:49.720
 related to Parkway you say this is a pilot this is a pilot project that is essentially

01:33:49.720 --> 01:33:56.360
 a permanent installation at this point okay so I say pilot because this is an on-street

01:33:56.360 --> 01:34:01.600
 facility if we were to do reconstruction we would evaluate whether it remains a permanent

01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:06.920
 solution it has pavement improvements and I'll leave that to my colleagues on the side

01:34:06.920 --> 01:34:11.920
 if we have if we have that I'm not aware of it but I'm aware that it's a permanent installation

01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:17.520
 at this point I've seen head nods so yes okay have you all had any conversations with business

01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:29.360
 owners I'm thinking about the the garage mechanics across from the development do you mean after

01:34:29.360 --> 01:34:36.000
 installation after installation how are they have you all heard from them in their regard

01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:42.200
 their concern I believe we had a discussed end page and my colleagues had this project

01:34:42.200 --> 01:35:02.320
 beforehand so I'm seeing a hand of two to meetings to me post I'll invite Brett please

01:35:02.320 --> 01:35:06.680
 pretty sure that the city engineer yes for this project we actually had two community

01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:11.440
 meetings we had one in the design stage of the project where we met with the local businesses

01:35:11.440 --> 01:35:17.760
 and with the community nobody attended the meeting but we did a video presentation and

01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:22.360
 posted on the discussed end page and then prior to the construction of this project

01:35:22.360 --> 01:35:26.200
 when the design was completed we had a second community meeting where we had a pretty good

01:35:26.200 --> 01:35:31.960
 attendance turnout by by Denton and local community to see the actual project and get

01:35:31.960 --> 01:35:35.880
 ready for the installation of it and we haven't heard any feedback from the local businesses

01:35:35.880 --> 01:35:42.200
 or any we've heard feedback from residents that have used it some have had some complaints

01:35:42.200 --> 01:35:46.600
 as in construction wasn't finished yet because the signage wasn't done the striping wasn't

01:35:46.600 --> 01:35:51.560
 completed yet but since those have all been completed we haven't heard any negative response

01:35:51.560 --> 01:35:58.680
 yet great councilmember McGee had a question yes thank you chair what does the statement

01:35:58.680 --> 01:36:06.160
 mean we recognize the need for more signage and markings yeah that's a great question

01:36:06.160 --> 01:36:11.560
 so I mentioned earlier that there is the state law and the city has a safe passing ordinance

01:36:11.560 --> 01:36:18.920
 that permits cyclists to use on street lanes for a full lane so there are instances around

01:36:18.920 --> 01:36:24.960
 the city where there is not a a may use the full lane sign because it's not actually acknowledged

01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:30.360
 in the city per the mobility plan that it's a bicycle facility however they still have

01:36:30.360 --> 01:36:37.280
 the the rights as a user to use that facility so I don't have the map of all the signage

01:36:37.280 --> 01:36:43.480
 and locations so that's generally if we need to evaluate that if someone comes up and asks

01:36:43.480 --> 01:36:49.840
 and says well there's no signage here to indicate that we can go back and evaluate that scenario

01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:54.640
 so that's just a recognition that there may be instances where there is insufficient signage

01:36:54.640 --> 01:36:58.400
 now I could be completely wrong and there's signage in every location it's not really

01:36:58.400 --> 01:37:03.720
 my cup of tea so I just want to make that general acknowledgement thank you thank you

01:37:03.720 --> 01:37:15.320
 madam chair um state roads does the city make recommendations for the state to make bicycle

01:37:15.320 --> 01:37:20.760
 lanes like carol I mean you say that sound it kind of you know impossible that carol

01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:27.920
 would be yeah we do have regular coordination with text about their facilities and we do

01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:32.800
 recommend or require based on our mobility plan now with state facilities it's a little

01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:41.760
 bit trickier because there's a capacity requirement for their roadways so if their design specs

01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:48.520
 call for a six lane divided and it's a high speed roadway I don't think our preference

01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:54.900
 would be to have an on-street facility so it's very context-based context-sensitive

01:37:54.900 --> 01:38:00.740
 and that's why our mobility plan does call for the shared use paths within the right

01:38:00.740 --> 01:38:10.000
 obey but off-street to account for the bicycle circulation without safety incidents with

01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:18.400
 that said there's still opportunities in other parts of the city to be reevaluated if we

01:38:18.400 --> 01:38:24.120
 go through the mobility plan process in the future to evaluate that because again it is

01:38:24.120 --> 01:38:32.580
 all context-sensitive so thank you yes so and I think it's just my confusion but so

01:38:32.580 --> 01:38:41.220
 this is an education question the default is that bikes have full access unless they

01:38:41.220 --> 01:38:47.680
 are specifically excluded which would be like highways and controlled access generally yes

01:38:47.680 --> 01:38:51.080
 and I don't have that specific information so I'd have to I could probably pull the

01:38:51.080 --> 01:38:58.720
 language and send it to to y'all but that's close that's close that's close it generally

01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:05.360
 speaks to if it's a two lanes of travel so mingo is a good example they take the full

01:39:05.360 --> 01:39:10.680
 lane and someone who have to safely pass three feet for cars six feet for trucks if it's

01:39:10.680 --> 01:39:15.940
 a two lane they can take the full lane two cyclists can ride to abreast within the lane

01:39:15.940 --> 01:39:20.680
 and so because of that they have the right to be everywhere then you would have to have

01:39:20.680 --> 01:39:28.640
 signage on the roads that exclude them that is that so if there's a road that excludes

01:39:28.640 --> 01:39:35.840
 a bike like a freeway for example there has to be road signage that says you may not enter

01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:40.040
 if you're a pedestrian or a bike or how does that work I don't have the answer to that

01:39:40.040 --> 01:39:44.400
 question but we can certainly research that question and get you an answer and I'll provide

01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:51.360
 context to the question that if if bicycles have the default right to 80 percent of the

01:39:51.360 --> 01:40:00.960
 roads then well well I want signage because that adds clarity and expectation management

01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:09.280
 to the whole mobility planning part of the education would be hey cars bikes have the

01:40:09.280 --> 01:40:14.840
 right to be wherever they want to be except in the excluded circumstances I think that's

01:40:14.840 --> 01:40:22.320
 where I'm going with this is part of the education process is cars you don't you don't own the

01:40:22.320 --> 01:40:28.080
 roads yeah there's certainly an educational element to that and I think once we're more

01:40:28.080 --> 01:40:32.680
 staffed up generally I think that's part of you know the bike ped coordinator position

01:40:32.680 --> 01:40:38.200
 that's open is part of their you know job responsibilities would be outreach and I believe

01:40:38.200 --> 01:40:44.800
 that was the instance as they did a lot of outreach with the community so and now I just

01:40:44.800 --> 01:40:49.680
 mentioned that that's the reason why on the higher speed roadways you see an alternate

01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:55.440
 location through the side path with the roadway cross section so a lot of this has to do with

01:40:55.440 --> 01:41:00.840
 the roadway cross section based on the classification of the roadway which then allows for the safe

01:41:00.840 --> 01:41:08.720
 movement for bicycle or pedestrian traffic and so you know that that is how those roadway

01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:14.760
 networks are designed so that they understand the etiquette of I guess specifically if we're

01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:23.760
 going to use that term as to where they can and cannot be based on the speed of the roadway

01:41:23.760 --> 01:41:29.560
 so just briefly because the question was asked about other facilities with ballards I'll just

01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:34.360
 briefly touch over it most like we've been talking about most of the multi use paths

01:41:34.360 --> 01:41:39.320
 within the city and I give you an example of McKinney and Mayhill Road they are within

01:41:39.320 --> 01:41:44.160
 the right of way but off street so similar to a pedestrian you would use the crosswalks

01:41:44.160 --> 01:41:49.840
 and follow that facility for circulation when there's a separated facility and we do have

01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:57.880
 a few in the city of Denton so Hickory Street is one but also Hinkle those are separated

01:41:57.880 --> 01:42:03.920
 bike lanes typically you have one on each side so it's a single directional travel with

01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:10.360
 the flow of vehicular movement I give the example of the roundabout because roundabouts

01:42:10.360 --> 01:42:15.460
 aren't typically bike ped friendly but you would in this case also there's a separate

01:42:15.460 --> 01:42:22.660
 sort of off ramp for a cyclist to exit around through the crosswalk and an on ramp back

01:42:22.660 --> 01:42:30.720
 onto the bike facility so that's how you would use that facility as well in situations where

01:42:30.720 --> 01:42:36.400
 the bike lane crosses an intersection if there's a striped crossing area that's where they

01:42:36.400 --> 01:42:42.320
 would follow versus the crosswalk so it's dependent on each situation and how it's designed

01:42:42.320 --> 01:42:48.800
 typically their signage the ped crossings is what they would use if there's no specific

01:42:48.800 --> 01:42:54.240
 bicycle signal I don't believe we have those in the city of Denton James can correct me

01:42:54.240 --> 01:42:59.920
 on that so because she can know we don't have any but if our intersections did have that

01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:06.600
 along a bike lane that's what they would use.

01:43:06.600 --> 01:43:11.400
 So I did talk about Hickory Street this is a one way street so slightly different in

01:43:11.400 --> 01:43:16.320
 that there's no two ways of travel but they have a designated single directional flow

01:43:16.320 --> 01:43:22.440
 so they would just remain within that bike lane so not for two way and then sharos we

01:43:22.440 --> 01:43:27.120
 do have several sharos in the city of Denton so those are where usually when right of way

01:43:27.120 --> 01:43:32.860
 restrictions apply there's no area to put a separate bike path or bike lanes sometimes

01:43:32.860 --> 01:43:39.080
 it's an issue of on street parking being an interruption so if residents aren't willing

01:43:39.080 --> 01:43:43.840
 to give up that on street parking to put in a bike lane that's usually what you're seeing

01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:51.400
 the sharo come in so the example here is Old North there are bollards on Old North those

01:43:51.400 --> 01:43:57.460
 I believe are intended to block from parking near the intersections as a safety measure

01:43:57.460 --> 01:44:04.320
 not necessarily a full bike lane pedestrians could use them if there is no sidewalk but

01:44:04.320 --> 01:44:10.800
 they would come into conflict with parked vehicles so they would use are intended to

01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:22.160
 use the sidewalk and I think that's the last visual I have for you and I think I'm passing

01:44:22.160 --> 01:44:38.600
 it back to Chandra I don't know where I'm at the third one on top there you go Chandra

01:44:38.600 --> 01:44:48.720
 senior engineer transportation services so on the more street Woodrow Lane question that

01:44:48.720 --> 01:44:56.120
 was brought on the last mobility meeting I did drive myself to the intersection and made

01:44:56.120 --> 01:45:02.520
 observations and did notice that there is a small mound on Woodrow Lane to the right

01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:09.200
 so that actually will delay the decision making of the vehicle on Morse lane to make a left

01:45:09.200 --> 01:45:16.920
 turn or a right turn lane and that could be a safety issue so we made request for data

01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:22.960
 collection for historical crashes from the last five to ten years and also we're planning

01:45:22.960 --> 01:45:30.440
 to get traffic data counts for 24 hours and also during the peak hours for Morse and Woodrow

01:45:30.440 --> 01:45:35.640
 Lane and we have to wait until the schools are back in session in January because it's

01:45:35.640 --> 01:45:41.160
 holiday holiday season the traffic are usually higher than the normal times so we will follow

01:45:41.160 --> 01:45:48.460
 up back in February with the analysis on the crashes how much delays the vehicle would

01:45:48.460 --> 01:45:53.120
 patiently wait on Morse lane to make a left turn or a right turn lane and we will follow

01:45:53.120 --> 01:46:03.880
 up on that okay any questions on more street okay moving on is an update what we got from

01:46:03.880 --> 01:46:09.880
 this citywide and downtown parking studies the downtown parking study is done by the

01:46:09.880 --> 01:46:14.320
 economic development and they have hired a consultant fair and peers so they are on the

01:46:14.320 --> 01:46:20.400
 data collection stage right now and they have some pop-up events that here and there in

01:46:20.400 --> 01:46:26.200
 the city one was washed out from October but there is one coming up this Saturday from

01:46:26.200 --> 01:46:32.720
 8 to 1 at the Denton Community Center for input from public on what they feel about

01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:37.880
 availability of parking in the downtown and the visitor experiences so they are documenting

01:46:37.880 --> 01:46:44.360
 right now and they also collected data from drones and vehicles on those specific events

01:46:44.360 --> 01:46:52.280
 where they have the concerts of inquiring whether they have enough parking and all those

01:46:52.280 --> 01:46:58.760
 data to document what needs to be done and we will provide an update when this draft

01:46:58.760 --> 01:47:09.120
 study comes back with the Saturday I can't think what that is farmers market being on

01:47:09.120 --> 01:47:16.760
 the new what is that community market being on county property is that parking lot it's

01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:24.080
 three one seven Mulberry Street yeah Mulberry that's city yes it's a city parking lot yes

01:47:24.080 --> 01:47:29.800
 okay I thought that was a county parking lot Bay of LaSalle is county I can't answer that

01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:34.200
 question I'd have to look into it it's directly across from a county facility which is the

01:47:34.200 --> 01:47:43.320
 Carroll building in the museums my gut tells me that that is a county parking lot and not

01:47:43.320 --> 01:47:48.800
 a city parking lot based on the location they also own all the land next to that so I believe

01:47:48.800 --> 01:47:56.960
 that is a county parking facility but we would have to follow up okay all right thank you

01:47:56.960 --> 01:48:03.240
 and a real high level update on the citywide parking study is the RFP request for proposals

01:48:03.240 --> 01:48:09.480
 for a citywide parking study was closed on November 15th so we should have some consultants

01:48:09.480 --> 01:48:18.360
 who apply for doing the making the study we will update back in spring once we have a

01:48:18.360 --> 01:48:27.400
 draft or a scope when we have it yes is the Oak Street historic district because we've

01:48:27.400 --> 01:48:32.880
 had those prior discussions is that included in the downtown I mean it's obviously include

01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:37.760
 the citywide because the citywide is everything but is also included in downtown or in just

01:48:37.760 --> 01:48:42.880
 in the citywide in terms of the evaluation of the parking needs of the Oak Street area

01:48:42.880 --> 01:48:48.260
 I don't have this big specific right now but I can follow up on the next meeting it's only

01:48:48.260 --> 01:48:52.880
 included in the citywide parking study it's not a part of the downtown the citywide specifically

01:48:52.880 --> 01:48:59.880
 is going to look at university areas historic areas and that will be one of the classifications

01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:04.640
 as far as the downtown all right thank you absolutely that's all I got thank you thank

01:49:04.640 --> 01:49:14.920
 you did you all have any other questions y'all want anything on there okay all righty I think

01:49:14.920 --> 01:49:24.920
 that covers everything on our agenda that does so oh I'm sorry I need to do future items

01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:35.040
 from ability committee meeting coming up I'm sorry about that agenda okay so let's let's

01:49:35.040 --> 01:49:39.900
 see Bonnie Bray Hickory Creek Trevor brought those to you we're asking to remove the planning

01:49:39.900 --> 01:49:45.640
 involved in school zones as Corina made that presentation along with a bike ped etiquette

01:49:45.640 --> 01:49:52.160
 and then the corner of Moore Street and Woodrow so those three were asking to remove the citywide

01:49:52.160 --> 01:49:56.560
 downtown parking study information that's all going to be led through the transportation

01:49:56.560 --> 01:50:04.080
 services team and that information will be brought back at a future meeting the transportation

01:50:04.080 --> 01:50:09.960
 services report will be given in a future staff memorandum and that'll be something

01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:16.280
 that's coming in January mr. dr. butt Farhan butt will be making that presentation the

01:50:16.280 --> 01:50:22.800
 mapping of the bicycle and sidewalk corridors is still currently an ongoing process and

01:50:22.800 --> 01:50:28.220
 so when that's ready we'll bring that forward you heard mr. mr. pollster mentioned today

01:50:28.220 --> 01:50:35.600
 the spurred loop 288 and 380 connectors that's going to be coming in an upcoming ITS report

01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:41.100
 when that's ready for public consumption he will have that information ready and then

01:50:41.100 --> 01:50:47.100
 Ryan Road Trevor will bring back when that's ready as you are very aware we're waiting

01:50:47.100 --> 01:50:52.520
 to move forward on Ryan Road until Hickory Creek is at a future phase so with removing

01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:57.040
 those three leaving the others on there the only other thing we need is any future additional

01:50:57.040 --> 01:51:01.320
 items that you would like to have in the next eight minutes before we run out of time on

01:51:01.320 --> 01:51:08.480
 this meeting yeah the couple questions I got from the public that I'll ask is and we can

01:51:08.480 --> 01:51:13.360
 evaluate here whether it needs to be an item or not people have asked me a lot about the

01:51:13.360 --> 01:51:20.800
 asphalt heave at Bonnie brand oak near the the power station does not need to be a part

01:51:20.800 --> 01:51:25.040
 of this Trevor's already on top of it and we're taking care of it okay awesome and then

01:51:25.040 --> 01:51:31.360
 the other one and again may not be an item so I'm asking is Anderson's J Anderson is

01:51:31.360 --> 01:51:41.420
 asked about the potential for a hot crossing like across from DC BC I understand that there

01:51:41.420 --> 01:51:49.760
 might be distance from intersection issues in that region so I've encouraged them to

01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:56.000
 talk to city staff about that but I don't maybe we could have a just a brief sentence

01:51:56.000 --> 01:52:01.880
 or two unless you can tell me the answer now about what the distances are and what would

01:52:01.880 --> 01:52:07.000
 be involved in a crossing at Anderson's and whether that would be potentially allowable

01:52:07.000 --> 01:52:12.440
 or not and so not currently on the agenda and I guess if you're talking about Anderson's

01:52:12.440 --> 01:52:18.160
 I want to make sure we're looking at the right location you're sitting center okay all of

01:52:18.160 --> 01:52:23.160
 those evaluations go through a process so happy to have staff stay back and explain

01:52:23.160 --> 01:52:29.080
 that process to you and also happy to talk to the Anderson's if they have specific questions

01:52:29.080 --> 01:52:32.760
 I don't think that needs to be a part of this agenda item but those conversations can be

01:52:32.760 --> 01:52:39.100
 had at a later time so we can stay back and have that conversation with you and of course

01:52:39.100 --> 01:52:42.800
 reach out to the Anderson's I don't know that I've heard that request but transportation

01:52:42.800 --> 01:52:51.160
 services might have all right thank you absolutely I'll just say that I spoke with the Anderson's

01:52:51.160 --> 01:53:01.600
 and I have noted to the Anderson's about the signs that they have in front of their building

01:53:01.600 --> 01:53:10.160
 suggesting that their customers park across the street which leans to the idea that their

01:53:10.160 --> 01:53:15.380
 customers will use you know take advantage of parking across the street at the Civic

01:53:15.380 --> 01:53:22.240
 Center and you know my safety concerns you know in that regard because that's a busy

01:53:22.240 --> 01:53:31.800
 curb right there and so they you know gonna have to fit that onus if they're you know

01:53:31.800 --> 01:53:39.200
 if that if the safety you know is heightened right there for me I did notify City Manager's

01:53:39.200 --> 01:53:48.480
 office that I was of concern significant concern about them encouraging their you know their

01:53:48.480 --> 01:53:55.240
 clients to walk back and forth across there like that but they there you know they want

01:53:55.240 --> 01:53:58.760
 to leave it up there because they don't they feel like that that's not that's the only

01:53:58.760 --> 01:54:05.800
 alternative they have since that parking lot is so small so that needs to be you know part

01:54:05.800 --> 01:54:11.100
 of the conversation somewhere else not necessarily right here and apparently it's the same thing

01:54:11.100 --> 01:54:16.360
 with the brewing you know parking crossing over so I'm thinking of pulling all of that

01:54:16.360 --> 01:54:25.120
 into the downtown I know we got a big discussion on upgrading or you know downtown conversation

01:54:25.120 --> 01:54:29.820
 and be pulled into that conversation as well sure I think those are great examples that

01:54:29.820 --> 01:54:36.320
 need to be a part of the downtown conversation the parking study and as far as what's currently

01:54:36.320 --> 01:54:41.520
 happening at the Anderson location I can't speak to but I think that transportation services

01:54:41.520 --> 01:54:45.240
 will definitely look into that I know that's probably a project that went through the planning

01:54:45.240 --> 01:54:51.400
 process that we weren't a part of so happy to discuss with transportation services and

01:54:51.400 --> 01:54:56.640
 I appreciate you bringing those other aspects up as far as there is a current crosswalk

01:54:56.640 --> 01:55:04.080
 at the intersection of McGinney and Belle Avenue for folks to be able to walk to so

01:55:04.080 --> 01:55:08.880
 we'll have to have staff look into that and happy to bring that forward actually honestly

01:55:08.880 --> 01:55:12.040
 I don't believe that's something for the mobility committee I think if you brought this to our

01:55:12.040 --> 01:55:17.160
 attention staff can work through those conversations and I appreciate you bringing that aspect

01:55:17.160 --> 01:55:23.160
 email the city manager group absolutely and I think staff can look at you know the concerns

01:55:23.160 --> 01:55:28.160
 in that area I can get with Scott McDonald and Farhan to discuss yeah just take a look

01:55:28.160 --> 01:55:32.480
 at it from a bird's eye view and a little bit bigger picture because you both had different

01:55:32.480 --> 01:55:37.200
 pieces and parts to that shuttle so we want to make sure we understand the purpose and

01:55:37.200 --> 01:55:43.560
 the need okay well I do understand that we've already had a discussion on the crosswalk

01:55:43.560 --> 01:55:49.720
 on McKinney over across from the courthouse and I know that there was a request to put

01:55:49.720 --> 01:55:54.160
 some kind of big crosswalk thing so people can get over across the way to visit those

01:55:54.160 --> 01:56:01.600
 bills those businesses over there but in I and I know that that's already been talked

01:56:01.600 --> 01:56:08.680
 about but still that Janey Street that's there it's got these two big trees in the middle

01:56:08.680 --> 01:56:15.480
 of the road and they go you know it's just it's unappealing and it looks like it's that

01:56:15.480 --> 01:56:22.280
 road is being neglected because there's no curbs no nothing it's just like you turn the

01:56:22.280 --> 01:56:27.560
 corner and you're back in 1934 no problem so are we all please add that and take a look

01:56:27.560 --> 01:56:34.320
 at that again yes I think that the response this is my second ask in my three years being

01:56:34.320 --> 01:56:43.360
 here the first response was just kind of just it wasn't it wasn't enough attention as far

01:56:43.360 --> 01:56:47.680
 as I'm concerned that was paid for that area and just kind of spruce it up around there

01:56:47.680 --> 01:56:53.640
 sure we're happy to look at I don't know how trees I don't know what but it looks it looks

01:56:53.640 --> 01:56:57.640
 like it's been neglected the entire street as far as I'm concerned it doesn't didn't

01:56:57.640 --> 01:57:04.160
 have any curves so that's the only thing that I have is that Janey Street and you have anything

01:57:04.160 --> 01:57:09.040
 sir that you want to add to the list thank you chair I know I've had these discussions

01:57:09.040 --> 01:57:14.520
 a bunch of times I feel like I need to bring it up every opportunity I get McKinney's dangerous

01:57:14.520 --> 01:57:25.560
 for pedestrians and folks in and wheelchairs and cyclists between Woodrow and 288 I just

01:57:25.560 --> 01:57:29.560
 right in front of Mac Park I just need to keep bringing it up I know it's coming I know

01:57:29.560 --> 01:57:33.840
 it's coming okay you approved that as a part of the CIP I know but I just feel like in

01:57:33.840 --> 01:57:42.560
 the interim can we look at some more lighting in the interim to make it you know to make

01:57:42.560 --> 01:57:47.000
 the road brighter because people are oftentimes trying to reverse McKinney at night I don't

01:57:47.000 --> 01:57:53.640
 know if that's possible but I'm happy to look into yeah anything that we can do to make

01:57:53.640 --> 01:58:01.120
 things safer for folks to cross no no not crossing just walking down they're not crossing

01:58:01.120 --> 01:58:05.560
 they're just walking down the street sure and there's a lot of things that are going

01:58:05.560 --> 01:58:10.440
 into that project including a lot of right away acquisition and putting the sidewalk

01:58:10.440 --> 01:58:15.000
 in where it needs to be located but as a part of the sidewalk project lighting will be one

01:58:15.000 --> 01:58:20.040
 of the considerations to make sure that there's the ability it will take time to evaluate

01:58:20.040 --> 01:58:23.440
 that because we don't have right away in all of those areas to currently construct the

01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:29.400
 project as is I guess I understand that I'm saying does not having right away access prevent

01:58:29.400 --> 01:58:34.960
 a temporary lighting solution to if it does that's okay I would say that it would be a

01:58:34.960 --> 01:58:39.640
 large and expensive endeavor to put temporary lighting in an area that would have to be

01:58:39.640 --> 01:58:46.160
 relocated okay but happy to see if there's anything from a municipal electric standpoint

01:58:46.160 --> 01:58:49.880
 that can be done from a lighting perspective and we'll definitely have that conversation

01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:57.440
 thank y'all I appreciate that absolutely I know it's coming so I'm absolutely patient

01:58:57.440 --> 01:59:03.920
 no problem I appreciate your patience yeah I'm everybody's alright well then thank you

01:59:03.920 --> 01:59:09.160
 very much absolutely you all are doing a great job I just I think this is one of my favorite

01:59:09.160 --> 01:59:14.320
 committees it is it's so interesting also we'll move on to concluding items or any concluding

01:59:14.320 --> 01:59:19.160
 items all right if there's no concluding items then we will call this meeting adjourned at

01:59:19.160 --> 01:59:22.240
 nine fifty nine thank