WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.300 And when I came back on 00:00:02.300 --> 00:00:07.100 All right, I'm gonna call the meeting to order 00:00:07.100 --> 00:00:12.900 It and I will now call the regular meeting to order at 530 p.m 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:18.000 And our first order of business is a Pledge of Allegiance of the United States in the Texas White House 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:34.000 And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:36.000 And now the Texas flag 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:45.000 Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:51.000 How about those rings? 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.000 All right, thank you for that 00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:01.000 So, our items today, we are going to start with item 2A, number HLC 23-50 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:08.000 And our agenda is to consider approval of the minutes for the October 9th, 2023 meeting 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:12.000 And I will entertain a motion or discussion for these minutes 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Move approval 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Make a motion to approve 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.000 Second by Sean, any discussion on them? 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:33.000 All right, I will take a vote, all in favor, raise your hand please 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.000 All right, any opposed? None, okay 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.000 It passes, thank you for that 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:45.000 All right, our next item 2B, number COA 23-2007 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:52.000 And our agenda is to hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:57.000 In accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:05.000 To rehabilitate the existing residents and construct a new rear addition at 314 Marietta Street 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.000 Within the West Oak Area Historic District 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.000 The site is located on the east side of Marietta Street, just south of Houston Place 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.000 So, Cameron, we will listen to you please 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.000 Thank you, Kara 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.000 As stated, this is at 314 Marietta Street 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.000 The owners are Travis and Sarah Rigsby 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.000 And the construction date is circa 1940 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.000 And it's highlighted here in the red 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.000 So, the building's history, it was constructed for a Ms. Susie Shepard 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.000 The architectural style itself is a minimal traditional style 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:47.000 And some of the defining features on that current residence are the double-hung windows, a low-pitched roof 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.000 Minimal overhang eaves, and minimal architectural details 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:59.000 So, the request today, as the chair stated, is for rehabilitation of the existing residents 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.000 As well as a rear two-story addition 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:07.000 Just so you all know, as stated in the AIS, or in your backup agenda 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.000 The original request was for a demolition 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:14.000 Staff has been working with applicants since July of this year 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:21.000 They originally came to staff with a construction of a new two-story, new traditional craftsman style residence 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:27.000 But we have in front of you today the recap of the existing structure as well as the new addition 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.000 So, I'll walk you all through that 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.000 And feel free to ask me questions as we go 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.000 I know there's a lot going on on this project 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:36.000 It's kind of a different project than we've seen in the past 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.000 Feel free to interrupt me as I go 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.000 So, these are the current conditions 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.000 This is that front west façade that's facing Marietta Street 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:50.000 You see that existing garage as well as that front entrance there 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.000 The current conditions on that side façade 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.000 So, this is the south façade right here 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:02.000 And then you have that rear façade which has that existing sun porch 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.000 So, the proposed elevation drawings 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:11.000 This is the proposed elevation from the front along Marietta Street 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:16.000 It does, I just want to highlight what that existing structure is 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.000 And then this is the addition 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:24.000 The proposed addition as well as the rehabilitation of that existing structure 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.000 It would utilize that existing wooden tongue and groove siding 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:37.000 It would include wooden double hung windows as well as multi-length windows to reflect that 1940s tax photo that it originally had 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:42.000 It would be utilizing asphalt shingles which it currently is utilizing 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.000 As well as that low pitched roof that we have here on that second story addition 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.000 But also on that existing residence as well 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.000 And also in addition to 00:04:52.000 --> 00:05:02.000 They would be using a fiberglass door which with 1940s era appropriate windows to kind of match and reflect what was there in 1940 originally 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.000 And they do want to keep the faux garage 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:11.000 They want to incorporate a faux garage door so that you understand what the original use was at that time 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.000 It would not be utilized as a garage 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:16.000 You'd have the rear garage here in that new addition 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.000 But I just wanted to highlight those pieces 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.000 So looking at the demolition of the floor and roof plan 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:30.000 It would be demolishing that rear patio in the back 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.000 And then the roof line here would be removed so they could add that second story addition 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.000 This is the proposed design 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.000 So before I kind of get into the elevation drawings 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.000 I wanted to show this first so that you all have kind of a feel of what it would look like 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.000 Obviously it's not going to really be providing that 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:55.000 Well that second story addition is doing 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:59.000 It is complementary to that existing structure 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:04.000 But it's not creating a false documentation of what has been developed on the property over time 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:08.000 So it's not going to be utilizing the same multi light windows 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.000 It is going to be using double hung windows to be complementary 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.000 But not going to be exactly a duplicate 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.000 Any questions so far? Yes? 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:24.000 Is that an existing door that was I think on the south side? 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.000 On the south side? Is that the south side? 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.000 Yes, so this would be replacing a window 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.000 Into a door? 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.000 Yes, for access to the driveway 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.000 So the front west facade which is once again the one facing Marinade Street 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.000 So this is our existing facade 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.000 We have the current garage entrance 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.000 We have the front door 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.000 And then we have double hung windows 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.000 So here's the 1940s tax photo 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:05.000 The applicant would like to bring back kind of the door and the windows that are reflective of that 1940s era 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:10.000 And as well they're going to be using a faux garage door so that they can use the interior space 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:17.000 And then they're going to be highlighting that with some leaded glass that is reflective of the 1940s as well 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.000 To allow some interior light into that room 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.000 Also here we have the second story addition 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.000 It would be utilizing double hung windows 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.000 It would be having a complementary low pinched roof 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.000 It would have two garage doors 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:41.000 It would have a low fence line as well as landscaping to kind of keep people's focus on that main structure 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:43.000 That original structure in the front 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:49.000 It would also be utilizing wooden tongue and roof siding which is on the original structure today 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.000 This is the rear east facade 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.000 So this is facing towards the rear of the property 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.000 Just so that you all have a better idea of what's being demolished 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:03.000 You have the demolition of the rear exterior wall, so this one exterior wall 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.000 And then the sun porch right here 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.000 And this is just the general location of where that is 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:13.000 In addition to the new two story addition 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:18.000 That sun porch there was probably not original, was it? 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.000 No 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:24.000 This is the north facade 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.000 So this is facing the neighboring property 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.000 So it's about three feet off that property line 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:32.000 It's pretty close so it's not visible from the street 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.000 But just so you all have a general idea what it looks like 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.000 It does have an exterior doorway 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.000 And it has the light into that current garage door 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.000 Or current garage 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.000 Once that garage is converted into actual living space 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:52.000 They'll be putting a door in and then changing up the windows as well 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:55.000 To kind of fit out their floor plan a little bit better 00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:00.000 But once again, it's keeping that existing facade adding the rear addition 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.000 If that rear addition was removed in the future 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.000 You would still have your main structure 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.000 Just some exterior changes would need to be made 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:14.000 So are they saying they're going to change out as many windows as they're going to go to fewer windows? 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.000 Yes, on that north facade 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.000 Because it's right on the property line with the neighboring property 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.000 But I won't be able to see it 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.000 So they're going to take out the original windows 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.000 And want to replace them 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:32.000 These are not original 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.000 So they're original locations but they're not original windows at this point 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.000 They've been changed 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.000 Because these all used to be that multi-light window 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:48.000 But yes, the sizing would be changing 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.000 This is the south facade 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:55.000 This is looking, here's the garage right here 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:58.000 If you're coming up from the driveway, you'd have the garage 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:03.000 So just to kind of show you where that original porch or that porch is right now 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.000 That's where this is kind of approximately located 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:12.000 And then this double window, double hung window would be the door 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.000 They would add a new doorway 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:19.000 And then this would change to a smaller singular double hung window 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.000 So once again, just want to kind of after looking through the elevation drawings 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000 Because they do have these kind of draft notes over the top 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.000 Saying do not use if you looked at your packet 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.000 HLC review only, do not build 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.000 Just want to once again come back to this 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:45.000 So, SAS analysis 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.000 Usually when we're looking at these types of projects 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:52.000 We're looking at that secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.000 In this case, staff really focused on what the property was used for historically 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:02.000 As well as the addition of that new rear construction 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:07.000 So we're focusing on one, two, three, five, nine, and ten 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:14.000 So I know this is something that we're not used to really seeing 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:18.000 In past preservation projects, we've usually been seeing rehabilitation 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.000 In terms of just rehabbing as is 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.000 According to historic documentation and not doing an addition 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.000 Or if we do an addition, it's hidden in the back, we don't see it 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.000 But in this case, this does meet code 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:38.000 And it really is preserving a structure that is about 750 square feet 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:42.000 So that they can grow into it as a family 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.000 Which we're not seeing a lot of in Denton nowadays 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.000 Especially in our historic districts with our smaller homes 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:53.000 So staff really does want to highlight that this is preserving that existing structure 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.000 It's avoiding demolition 00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:03.000 It could be demoed, it could be raised, and we could just replace it with a larger structure that's not historic at all 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.000 It does retain that same use 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:12.000 In that second story addition, because they're just removing that one exterior wall in the sun porch 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:17.000 If it was demoed in 30 years, you would still have your main existing structure back 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:20.000 And you would have to change some of the window placements and some of the doors 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.000 But that's an easy fix in comparison to this 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:30.000 It does avoid a false sense of history, which ties back to our Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:35.000 We don't want to falsify history of what's been developed on that property over time 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:38.000 But it is still compatible with that historic structure 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:43.000 It still highlights some of that minimal traditionalist style 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.000 While not stating that, oh yes, it was built in 1940 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:51.000 As I said, it refrains from imitating the historic building 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:55.000 And it still recognizes something different, but it's still complementary 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.000 In addition, it's set back from that front facade of that historic structure 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:05.000 They're wanting to keep people's focus on that front facade by adding a low fencing 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.000 By adding landscaping, by keeping the faux garage door 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.000 So that people understand, yes, that structure originally had its garage right there 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:20.000 But it's no longer a used garage 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.000 And then in addition to that, staff looked at our debt and development code section 4.9.6C 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.000 Which is our West Oak-era historic district 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:38.000 Staff focused on the architectural detail, the building placement, chimneys, additions, facade materials, roof forms 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:44.000 Windows and doors, which I provided a lot of detail in the backup 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.000 So if you all have any questions 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:51.000 But staff is recommending approval for this certificate of appropriateness 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:56.000 To rehabilitate these sustained residents and construct a new rear addition at 314 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.000 As it does meet our Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.000 As well as sections 4.9.6C of the debt and development code 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.000 Any questions? 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.000 And the advocate is here if you all have additional questions for him 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:15.000 He can come up and just talk about the project himself 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:20.000 But if you have any questions for staff, I'm happy to answer them right now 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.000 Anybody have any questions? 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.000 No, except I think it's a wonderful idea 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.000 And I would never agree with doing that 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:34.000 I think it's a great plan 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:39.000 My question is why on those on the north and south side 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.000 Are they not using the same size windows that they're taking out? 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.000 That's what gives me heartburn 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.000 For having a historic structure, we are changing 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:55.000 I totally understand taking out a window for a door placement 00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:01.000 I understand that my heartburn is over those sides not having the same size windows 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.000 Because on that flip side it's really different 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.000 I can ask the advocate because I'm not sure of the floor plans 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.000 Travis, do you want to come up? 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.000 Sure, yeah 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:22.000 Good afternoon, I'm Travis 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.000 So the north, this is the north side here 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.000 And then obviously we're changing it to less windows 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.000 And that is because the inside is actually a kitchen area 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.000 Right here is actually the kitchen where the stove top is 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.000 And so to have the vent hood come in right here 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.000 It would be right in front of this window here 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:55.000 So that was just an architectural adjustment that we made 00:15:55.000 --> 00:16:01.000 Obviously they're not the same windows, but yeah it's an interior design 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:07.000 That would cause the exterior to have to be adjusted 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.000 And yeah the door location was there just for a side entrance there 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.000 And keep in mind if you do go visit the site 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:20.000 There is a heavy tree line on the north side so you actually can't see any of this 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:27.000 Even from the, looking from west to east onto the front of the facade 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.000 You wouldn't be able to see any of these windows really 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.000 It's a winner 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.000 No leaves on the trees 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:40.000 Potentially, yeah I haven't lived there yet so I don't know 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.000 So you can see a little bit of the full line 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.000 It's a pretty heavy brush on this north side here 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:57.000 It's just a significant reduction in windows is my only thing 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.000 I mean it's a significant difference 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:04.000 I'd like to know the percentage of how many windows are there now and what you're going to 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:11.000 Because what's being put in looks to be a lot smaller as well as taking out windows 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:18.000 And we know part of windows are a whole part of history and what was there 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.000 We had a whole presentation on it a few years ago 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.000 That's the only thing, it's not even the addition 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:33.000 But it's taking out windows and replacing with a significant less amount is where I have an issue 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:41.000 So if I were to move, look at the same surface area of window, would you be okay with that? 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.000 Probably 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:49.000 But it's not just me, we have a whole board here 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:57.000 So again, that's just me, they may totally feel different 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:05.000 Well, I find that, in my opinion, this aligns with the standards that we use for this process 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:12.000 And I think that this is the sort of adjustment that I completely understand what Angie's saying 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.000 But I think this is the kind, in my opinion, this is the kind of adjustment that is understandable 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.000 When you look at the scale of the project and what is being saved here 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:27.000 Instead of so many bungalows, so many smaller homes are just wiped out and replaced by larger, multi-story homes 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:33.000 And I think this aligns with the standards 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.000 Can you tell us the standards on windows? 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.000 So, when... 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.000 I should say, overall, I find that it aligns with the standards 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:48.000 I do think, perhaps, there's maybe an exception with the windows I'm comfortable with, speaking for myself 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:55.000 So, when it comes to windows itself in terms of our code and the development code 00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:05.000 What we're looking at is mostly style, openings, framing 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:10.000 Style, openings, and framing, and what glass is being used 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:15.000 So, in terms of openings, it's not necessarily saying 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:20.000 Oh, you can... it doesn't say anything against opening or closing openings 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:26.000 It's just saying if you're opening these openings that they're similar in size and style 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:31.000 And did it on that north and south side? Because to me, visually, it did 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:35.000 So, have we looked at that? If they're similar in size, I get 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.000 But to me, they didn't look that way on the door when I'm missing something 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:46.000 So, are you talking about... sorry, the doors or the windows? These windows 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.000 These are visible from the right-of-way, so I did not review these 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.000 They are not visible from the right-of-way 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:56.000 And it's changing the historic structure. Is that not the part that's on historic structure? 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000 Correct, but that is not for HLC's review 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.000 That is only for staff review 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:09.000 If it is not visible from the right-of-way, it is not under HLC's protocol 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:13.000 Yeah, so there's a lot of administrative stuff that's not reviewed by HLC 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:17.000 Because it's administrative, so it's not in the right-of-way 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:22.000 Good to know. First I've ever heard of that in four years, but I'm glad to know 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.000 Okay 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:32.000 So, what we're really focusing on is these, because these will be visible from the right-of-way 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:38.000 And then the front facade 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.000 So, this, here, here, there 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.000 Because if you look at the structure, yeah, so there we go 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.000 That's the best view 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.000 Okay, so if the other side is not, I'm good 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.000 If that's not part of HLC, then I'm good 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.000 And I want to say kudos for changing your mind on demoing 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:01.000 Yeah, sure, Cameron was a big part of that 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:05.000 Because that would have to come in front of HLC 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.000 Yeah, just a real creative solution 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.000 And I think it's additive, actually, in my opinion 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.000 So, I mean, it adds something to that process 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.000 Sure, yeah 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.000 I would say because 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.000 Yeah, Cameron and I, we walked into it together, and I think Cameron can testify that 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.000 I almost fell 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000 It's in a very bad state 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:31.000 The single bathroom that's there, the toilet was falling through the floor 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:36.000 They use two-by-fours for the shower, and they have just a garden hose for the shower hose 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.000 Yeah 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.000 It's in a very bad state 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Lots of living 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 There's lots of broken windows 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.000 There's a family living there, so it's kind of sad, but 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:50.000 Yeah, all the, I would say most of these windows were all broken 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.000 And they just had sheets hanging over them, which was 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000 Yeah 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.000 Surprising 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.000 Right 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:01.000 It was, yeah, it's not in great shape, so I'm thankful for Travis even considering 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:02.000 Right 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:08.000 Wanting to repurpose and rehab this house and give it new life 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:13.000 I think it looks fantastic 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.000 Yes 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.000 Thank you 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.000 Are you going to live there? 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.000 Yes, ma'am 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.000 You are 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.000 I hope so 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.000 Yeah, that's the hope 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.000 All right 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:24.000 Thank you 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000 Thank you guys 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.000 Any other discussion? 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000 No 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.000 No discussion 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:34.000 All right, would anyone like to make a motion? 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:41.000 I will move approval of this request, and once again I say it's just a marvelous idea 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:43.000 Can I second that? 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.000 Okay, thank you for that 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.000 All in favor, raise your hand please 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.000 Any nays? 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.000 Thank you 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.000 Good luck to you 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:55.000 Thank you, Travis, good luck on that 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.000 I appreciate you guys 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.000 We want to be in drive to the open house 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.000 Absolutely 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000 Yeah 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.000 Yeah 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.000 I'll contact you tomorrow 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.000 Okay, so I can head out 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000 You can head out, thanks for coming, we appreciate it 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.000 Thank you all so much 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:10.000 Yes 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:24.000 All right, carrying on item 2C, number 8LC23-042, and our agenda is to hold a discussion and consider approval of the 2024 Historic Landmark Commission meeting calendar 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:29.000 So I brought it up for everyone 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:34.000 We are placing most of them on that second Monday, which we are usually consistent with 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:43.000 The only dates that we're not doing that is November 11th, it's been moved to the 18th due to Veterans Day, the city is closed that day 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:51.000 As well as during March, spring break does fall on that week of the 11th, so we moved it also to the 18th 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.000 But everything else falls on that second Monday 00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:04.000 Do you happen to know in November, is Thanksgiving that same week or the next? Are we a week earlier this year for Thanksgiving? 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.000 I'd say it's almost the fourth Thursday of the month 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.000 Fourth Thursday, okay, so that works 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.000 Yeah, perfect 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000 Okay, so a week before 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:19.000 Any questions, thoughts? 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:27.000 Well, maybe you think I have even the progress notion 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.000 Looks good to me 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.000 It's good 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:38.000 Let me see, I'm sending a couple people with those dolphins and kids 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.000 All right, can we get a motion to approve the calendar? 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:42.000 Motion to approve 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.000 Thank you Sean, thank you Lenny 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:51.000 All right, everyone in favor of approval of the calendar, raise your hand please 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.000 Anyone opposed? 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.000 No opposed 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.000 Good deal 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.000 Okay, we're going to move to our work session, item 8.3, number is HLC 23-049 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:11.000 On our agenda is to discuss and to determine opportunities for public outreach and education by the Historic Landmark Commission 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:18.000 Do we have any discussion on any other outreach and education? 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.000 I can bring up the matrix if that's helpful 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000 Let's see what's in the matrix, that helps 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:33.000 Who's that first? 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.000 Oh yeah, we'll discuss public outreach and education after this 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.000 So I will bring an example forward 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:44.000 I did hear from Commissioner Gregory who was not able to attend this evening 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000 And she had interest in doing a house tour 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:57.000 She felt that other cities that are in the Metroplex have been doing house tours for many years 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.000 They raise funds that way, they host it annually, you know, Swiss Avenue does that on Mother's Day 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.000 I think Fort Worth has a few 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:10.000 She was really interested in potentially doing it in the Denian neighborhood 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:13.000 Which I think she had mentioned last time 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Just because we have a really large grouping of mid-century modern homes down there 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:27.000 That are now coming into kind of that period of significance in terms of that hitting 50 plus years 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:33.000 And she thinks we should showcase it and be something that we should be really proud of 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.000 So that was her suggestion, I told her I'd bring it on her behalf 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:45.000 But I think she just really wants us to do a home tour that hasn't been on Oak Street 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:51.000 Which I understand we have a lot of areas that have great architectural significance 00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:02.000 Well I think if they pay some yard people to come in and house cleaners, I think that would be lovely 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.000 [Laughter] 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.000 I'd volunteer my house to that 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.000 [Laughter] 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.000 I think that would be good and I think there's a lot of architecture 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.000 I think about, I always call it my next door neighbor, the T.W. House 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.000 The Gretchen Gibson House 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.000 Which is a fabulous, it's an oh no four 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.000 Yes it is 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.000 So it's absolutely fabulous 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:33.000 And I know you don't probably want a house here or one over here and stuff 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.000 But those types of things really are significant 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000 Now with something like that you have university approval and those kinds of things 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.000 So what is the step, if that's something we want to move forward with 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:50.000 Do we just mark homes we would like to tour and knock on the door? 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.000 I'm kidding 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.000 [Laughter] 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.000 So when Commissioner Aguri had brought it forward to me, I had informed her 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.000 Let's find out the houses that you're interested in 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.000 Or that the commission's interested in 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.000 We'll figure out the contact information 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:18.000 I will send a letter on behalf of HLC stating that we're really interested in doing a house tour 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:24.000 It would probably help having HLC if there's interest going and talking with them 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.000 If they're not responsive 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.000 I'll give you guys an update on the Southeast End stuff at Matrix 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:35.000 But kind of, that's kind of how I initially stated 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:40.000 Let's just start having those conversations and saying why it's important 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.000 Because a lot of people first of all don't want you coming into their house 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:46.000 Because usually when it comes to a house tour you're going in someone's house 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.000 A lot of people don't like that because it's their personal space 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.000 A lot of the house tours that I've been on in the past, they literally 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Some let you go everywhere and then some just say 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.000 Hey, you're allowed to go in my entryway, my living room, my kitchen 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.000 And then I have a back entrance that you can go out the back 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.000 And then you can come down my driveway or whatever it may be 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000 So it's really just first making that contact and saying 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.000 Hey, this is our interest, we really want to get this started in Denton 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.000 And give some examples of other cities in the area that are doing it 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.000 And how successful it's been and say 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.000 Do you have any interest? And if they have interest, awesome 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:27.000 Then we can kind of talk about that next phase 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.000 But if there's no interest then you move on to the next person 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.000 Or you think, okay, maybe we're not ready for a house tour 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.000 Maybe we're ready just for, you know, how we talked, you all talked in the past 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.000 Sean, you part of that conversation, but in the past we talked about the block parties 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.000 You had stated block parties would be amazing 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:49.000 Just to get people educated about why you should be excited about your neighborhood 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.000 What's going on in your neighborhood? What, you know, why should you get designated? 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:58.000 Whatever it may be, so maybe that's a good step versus a house tour 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.000 So I think, I think it's a great idea 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:09.000 I think it's just really what are you all interested in helping, you know, Denton learn about 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.000 And we have Denton Revealed coming in May again 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.000 You know, we had talked about you all doing block parties for that 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.000 So if that's something of interest, we can do that for Denton Revealed in May 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000 So it's just, it really, the world is your oyster 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:27.000 And it's kind of just like, what, what do you all want to do as a commission? 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.000 And what do you think people should care about or should know about? 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.000 What do you guys think? 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000 No pressure, guys 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:44.000 You know, one of those houses, Denton Tremont House has just been bought by someone else 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:49.000 And he is really, I mean, he has a tremendous job in front of him 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:59.000 Because much of it was Rod Ed and he's going to be doing much of it himself 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:04.000 So I don't know how long he's even estimating it will take him 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:13.000 But it would be wonderful to have it when he gets done with that 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:17.000 Bring it back and focus 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:22.000 No, and hearing that Travis here tonight with what he's done 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:28.000 I also see this as an opportunity to raise awareness about you all 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:34.000 Like how we work closely with people in terms of, you know, creating a project 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.000 So there's an opportunity to share stories there too 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000 About successes and wins 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000 Does that make sense? 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:45.000 And so that way people can get an idea and, you know, like see something like this 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.000 Even in the planning stages, right? 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.000 You get them to then think about, oh wow 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:57.000 Instead of just like polishing it and going, you know, scorch earth and start from the ground up 00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.000 Wow, what then? 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:05.000 I know this is kind of my wheelhouse because I build tours and give them 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.000 I've got a historic tour actually that I've started on Sundays now 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.000 Oh, wonderful 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:17.000 And so I lead them around the square and it's like I tell them stories about what used to be there 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:24.000 And what's there now and how what's there now is there because of reasons and determined people 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.000 And the work of like the Historic Commission 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.000 And I've been getting a lot of really great feedback 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:36.000 I mean, honestly, the reason I put it together is because I also wanted to raise awareness about what was going on with City Park West 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.000 And of course, now that that's failed, we got like what five years before we can have another go at it, right? 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.000 That's super frustrating 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:50.000 But making people aware that like, hey, the downtown that you enjoy, there's no guarantee that it will stay the same unless you're a tenant 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:57.000 And there's also no guarantee unless we vote and participate 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:03.000 So anyway, it's just kind of my thinking is that it's also a great way to just raise awareness of what possibility 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:14.000 So if we want to talk like things that have worked in the neighborhoods, maybe create a wish list of homes that have been helped to be rehabbed by the city 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:18.000 And then have them tell their stories about that rehab. Does that make sense? 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:24.000 I mean, because that can be fascinating to a lot of people who might like, you know, in Wendy's neighborhood 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.000 Looking at how does that process work? What kind of things, right? 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:35.000 So, so I guess just so I understand so past kind of COA projects like certificates of properties that have come through 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:42.000 That the HLC has voted on and reviewed that have been what we think have been a success 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:48.000 Yeah, to include that kind of a wish list because that might also open up possibilities for different types of stories 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.000 Help to educate the public on what you all do and quite importantly 00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:01.000 To add to that too, Kevin, I think something that was important tonight when you said, hey, that's not HLCs 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:05.000 I think that's important to know that, hey, that's for staff 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:12.000 And I think it's important to showcase what we've approved and that we're not so bad to work with 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000 Right, right 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:20.000 And the reason is, is it we haven't had a reputation like that? I'm being honest here from the heart 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:26.000 We haven't been, it is not always been easy to work with and to say, we are here to help 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.000 Approving that, we kept that structure for me and Dimash 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.000 But yet not only that, it's falling in line with all the guidelines 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.000 Right 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:41.000 So I think it's important to say that and then to say, hey, this isn't your thing, then that's fine with me 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:42.000 I mean, does that make sense? 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:43.000 Yeah, no, it definitely 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:44.000 I think people need to know that 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:53.000 It definitely does because, you know, that's one of the things that I think as a commissioner, I agree 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:59.000 You all need to talk about your successes because a lot of people are scared by preservation here in Denton 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:05.000 And they see you all as the obstacle to them being able to do whatever they want with their property 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:14.000 They always see it as an obstacle or a challenge versus, okay, let's, how do we work together so we can both get what we want out of this 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:20.000 And where it's a win-win for both the city and you all as a commission as well as the property owner, which we saw tonight 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:25.000 He still gets the square footage that he needs for his growing family, but he's still preserving the structure 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.000 And being, creating something that's compatible with it 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.000 So I 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:42.000 Start there and we get, and we can show the successes, then we might get people that are willing to come back into, hey, yeah, maybe we want to be designated 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.000 Right 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:48.000 Because right now I don't think the interest is there, so 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.000 Yeah 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:57.000 Can I mention something along those lines, because experiences I've had recently with some, I really caught a couple of earfuls about appearing before the commission 00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:05.000 This was in years past, this is, all right, touches on that, but also, and this, these were a couple of commercial structures 00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:10.000 Pretty old structure from one of them, particularly 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:17.000 The owner just decided this really wasn't worth it, and it's about what can we, you know, the carrot and stick 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:22.000 Can we improve the carrot, I know we can't, but you know 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:29.000 Some people are, they're just frustrated, and that's one reason people, more people are showing up, I'm starting to get the impression, it's like, well, why bother 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:37.000 You know, I don't know what other cities do compared to what we have done, if we used to be more generous or not, and I'm sorry if you've addressed this before 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.000 No, it's okay 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.000 I forgot 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.000 So 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.000 I don't know, so this is more common of what I'm hearing 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:53.000 No, and I definitely, that's something that I hear, I hear about in the past a lot 00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:03.000 I hear about the present, I hear about what we want to do in the future, I hear about all the different things, and I hear the good, the bad, and the ugly, I hear everything 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:17.000 And one of the things that I've been hearing is that people want to, people want the city to be transparent across the board with just everything that they do 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:35.000 And so one of the things that I thought would be great was to do just like quick little video snippets of you all introducing yourselves so that people can see you and be like, oh, okay, I can put a face to a name, I'm not, like, I know that person, you know, they lived on the block 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:52.000 Or, oh, I've run into them, they're not scary, like, you know, just kind of doing those things because I think that's the only thing that's been beneficial for me as the historic preservation officer is getting out there and people aren't like, first of all, they learn that I'm not a boy 00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:07.000 Second of all, they learn that I'm not scary and that I really am trying to work with you, but there are just certain things where my hands are tied, I just don't have a choice sometimes, and I'm going to do what I can to get you across the finish line 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:25.000 But at the same time, we have, there's some give and take. But the long goal is, let's do something good for the community, not as individuals, let's do something that benefits the community and preserves this building or whatever it may be for the community in the long run. 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.000 That's the main goal that everyone should have. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:38.000 So I've talked to Denton Television, talked about doing just a video because the county's having the same issue, because they do the state and federal regulations. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:51.000 They do the National Parks designation, so National Register, Sean knows all this, they do the state record, Texas Historic Landmarks, we're local, but they were talking about the same thing, no one wants to designate. 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:58.000 No one wants to do this or that because one, they're not educated about it, or two, they just don't want their property rights being taken. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:07.000 But at the state, and that's the thing, it's not here to take property rights, we still want you to be able to do what you want to do, it's just, how do we find that balance? 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.000 But that has not been before you came. 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.000 Right. 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:15.000 That was not the goal. 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:26.000 I still think the money is often the bottom line for a lot of these folks, it has to be, that's not, they need, I don't know, this is just what I'm hearing again and again and again. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.000 Having said that, anyway, I've passed out a lot of your cards, and I want to say I really appreciate how approachable you are. 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:36.000 I get consistent good feedback, people's interactions with you, and I'm really grateful for that. 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.000 I like the idea of what you're talking about with the video segments, I think that's great. 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:57.000 I really think myself that our problem, and I think that was true of the recent election, and I think we could have, with harder work, we could have gotten City Hall West across the finish line. 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:13.000 But I think people just don't understand, without a daily newspaper that's giving you information about what's going on in your city, you know, different subjects, there just isn't any consistent way. 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:33.000 You know, even when there are little signs posted about, follow us on social media, something, and it's five things listed, and you think, excuse me, I'm probably this many that I have to go through, and you think I'm going to look at that many more? 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:51.000 We need some place that you can get good information, and I have wondered if it would be worth it to approach, for the city to approach the dead market chronicle, about, especially since they've been purchased now. 00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:05.000 Of course some of the same people are still there, and it's not working yet, I can assure you, because nobody calls you back, and nobody answers the phone. 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:28.000 And all those things are, they just dissuade people from doing anything more. But I think if we could educate people so that they, I can't tell you how many of the long proposals, people didn't have a clue about, and they had the wrong end of the stick about the rest of them. 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:36.000 Lenny, I have a suggestion, this is something that I need to research, but you just made it pop up in my head talking about that. 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:55.000 You know, each board and commission does have a landing page in terms of who you just see the members are, you know, who the roster is, and kind of the schedule, but what I see in other cities is that every historic landmark commission has a page in terms of information, 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:20.000 how to get in contact with y'all, what your role is, kind of explaining, sometimes some of them have headshots so that people can see and put a face to a name, similar to the video, but I'm just, this is something I'm going to have to ask IT, I'm going to have to work with our website, just because if HLC does it, I don't know how it's going to trickle through the other boards and commissions, and they might not have time or want to do that. 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:49.000 But I feel like moving forward, HLC should and needs to have a larger role in how Denton is moving through development, and just growing in general, that I feel like it would be very beneficial to this group to have a landing page that's connected to the historic preservation page that actually shares what you're, like I said, what you do, what you're here for. 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:58.000 And maybe if you all do that video, that video can be connected to that page, and then it just updates as we get new commissioners on board. 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:19.000 And I think it's imperative that we educate people on what we don't do, and what is administrative approval versus HLC, because in the past, and I know in the past because I'm a historic home, and I had to come before the board, way before I was part of this board. 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:31.000 I firsthand know, and when we were able to hand things over for administrative approval, instead of for small things that have to go to a commission, that is huge. 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:52.000 I don't know that people still realize that, and because it's made such progress in my mind on what we don't have to come before us. I think people need to know that. I think probably what you have in your full might have been some of the really petty things. 00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:02.000 The nuance. That's right. And the point that, hey, he's like, this is one particular, but this structure is already old, and it's already expensive because I'm learning personally. 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:07.000 It's already expensive, you know, and. 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:13.000 You know, if we have a picture of this house. 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:23.000 If we have a picture of it when it's done, so that people could see what's possible. 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:30.000 That would help to write before and after, and I really appreciate him working with you. 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:40.000 I mean, I think that's fabulous. Yeah, I was gonna say it was well and you working with him to be clear that you were able to talk him out of demolishing. 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:43.000 I take that as a win. 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:58.000 But these kinds of stories, that's where I'll talk to some people that I know over in journalism, but, you know, we decided to do like a house tour a block party. I'll see if I can get some of their students to do like a short documentary like film it and then, then we have something 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:12.000 to feature for television, you know, I mean, right now I think that's great. Yeah, try to kill a few birds with one stone because yeah, but more people know here's what it is is how it works and that's why I like a win like we saw tonight. 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.000 Here's a success story. 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.000 And this is where both sides. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.000 Again, get you to win. 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:29.000 We do positive publicity. 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:51.000 Justin has hired a new chief communications officer, and one of the one of his goals is to be able to communicate positive news stories for the community and allowing the city to be part of that narrative so there, there may be some opportunity to work with 00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:07.000 Justin and his team, and for example this property owner, and that we had on the agency's agenda tonight, so maybe assist with documenting that story and especially with this project and seeing how it evolves so so there might be some opportunities 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.000 to be able to do that. 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:24.000 Maybe there is a press release to your point about you know getting something to the debt and record Chronicle if they get our emails on press releases opportunity to showcase a project in that nature so to be able to utilize that resource but I know he's really looking 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:30.000 to be proactive and how can the city tell its positive stories. 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:38.000 The thing is, when you say, Oh, well it's online, you just have to go online. 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:41.000 The news paper are so. 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:47.000 It's this big. Sure, you know where do I start on any one day. 00:46:47.000 --> 00:47:01.000 When I'm used to the fact that we could just get the newspaper. I know they do that, some kind of publication by the city every month or something. 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:17.000 Oh, I think the quarterly quarterly resident Yeah, yeah, but it doesn't have the stuff in it that we really want to know. I mean, they seem to delight in putting in, we accomplished this great thing here. 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:32.000 You know, actually, well maybe it could be an HLS, there could be an HLC spotlight in the next quarterly that comes such a highlight can highlight a few projects but they can do this project to maybe two other projects that you will feel like 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:51.000 they did and it can be a spotlight from the Historic Landmark Commission saying hey here are wins for 2023, you should know, because, you know, $1 million on streets, since they're all still in trouble. 00:47:51.000 --> 00:48:04.000 Why can't you manage it better than, you know, that raises a question. I want to have people look at that's really remarkable I didn't know they could do that, or beautiful. 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:17.000 Yes, I think about the wins that we've had and I think about the solar panels on as far as we've come with those on when we had the presentation and we're like, it was like you know a light bulb went off. 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:35.000 I think that's huge for a win for what where we've come on those things. So I'm all for that. And if the commission decides to do a house tour or volunteer mine but I don't know that mine's that architecture. 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:50.000 I have two original bathrooms that I'm not touched, but it's amazing. Most people don't have time. Well honestly, most people, aside from just the straight architectural features, they enjoy the story. 00:48:50.000 --> 00:49:06.000 They want to hear the stories of who lived there what their lives were like. 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:30.000 Somebody drives by their little house on Marietta. Yeah, then when it's finished. That's right. Right. And if you can have a picture of that. Oh, I know. And then think about 50 years from now. Exactly, like, like Travis said, it's, it was very rough, I felt it did not wear proper shoes did not know the floor was gonna be slippery, nor level. 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:39.000 It's so I, the fact that he's willing to even think about rehabbing it was a huge win. 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:52.000 But so just so that I have a better understanding of kind of what we've gathered gathered from this is house tour is definitely something we want to look towards in the future but not something that's imminent right like needs to happen right now that's maybe long term goal. 00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:06.000 And then, in terms of we want kind of that positive publicity right now and just education of what your roles are what you're looking at what you're reviewing what are some good examples so maybe. 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:25.000 So that would include maybe didn't television video or another type of video that maybe you and T students document, we get some before and afters of successful projects, and I'll talk to it and kind of just our webmaster just to see can HLC have a landing 00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:36.000 page you really think it'd be very beneficial just so that people have a place to go when they're trying to learn what the heck is this is not easy to find. 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:57.000 The city web page have you guys tried to find. It's not easy to get to it that would be great if even if the others don't, I'd rather HLC be the example and try to move forward and the others want to do it with them. 00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:16.000 Instead of us be the ones left. Okay, sounds good. And then maybe whatever the I need to figure out when the next quarterly newsletter is but maybe have a historic landmark commission spotlight or just preservation spotlight just saying some of the winds out 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:31.000 there that accomplished. I wonder if the retrospect museum. Oh, yeah, that might also be an avenue. Okay, I say I've worked with. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:45.000 I work with Gary and then Gary connects me to Taylor. Sorry I work for Gary, and then, but it was more about didn't revealed and preservation month and kind of asking what those events were but that could be also another avenue. 00:51:45.000 --> 00:52:02.000 Okay, so I will just trying to think of things that already exist right have an audience that we can just kind of piggyback on. And my highlight tonight is like hey, here's a, here's a win. 00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:16.000 I'm excited about etc. Also, just because this will be an ongoing discussion that. So, my hometown Fayetteville Arkansas, Washington County they just won a an award for through preserve Arkansas. 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:22.000 What they did was they put this place matters, and so they have these little signs like campaign signs. 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:39.000 And what they did was that they created a campaign that aim to increase awareness, and then they shared them on social media for people to take their photos there etc. of historic preservation projects and historic preservation success stories. 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:56.000 So like this is a little telephone booth that's in Prairie Grove, Arkansas, and it still works. 00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:13.000 It's just kind of a PR but it also gives people a way to interact with it and see like, hey, this place matters. 00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:17.000 Sorry. 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.000 I know what you mean sorry. 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:34.000 A couple of meetings ago I think it was a couple of years ago there were a couple of reporters here I think from UNT interview me and interviewed someone else. 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:51.000 Well, they called me, and they called me on the phone. I had an applicant call me as well. And I don't feel comfortable talking outside of the commission, because to me we're a unity, and they were wanting me to help them with. 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.000 Oh, sure, sure. 00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:07.000 Yeah. 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:15.000 I didn't see the article though or was it linked to anyone who I think was interviewed. 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:25.000 It might be in UNT journalism land. 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.000 All right, are we ready to move on. Yes. All right. 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:45.000 Number three be number a job see 23 dash 040. And our agenda is receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction on the historic landmark commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:52.000 Anybody have any properties that they want to bring forward tonight. 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.000 I will see. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.000 Okay, no worries. 00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:02.000 No, ma'am. 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:11.000 Okay, I, since we're on this topic I will give an update regarding the historic black churches to did receive their letters. 00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:25.000 Three did not. I left messages that every single one did not receive any return calls. I did talk to one of my colleagues who's working in that neighborhood as well. 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:32.000 She's had the same difficulty trying to get in contact with those different pastors of those churches. 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:44.000 So, we're still working on it, but I think that education aspect and maybe putting a face to a name, talking about maybe in the video what that letter is about. 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:56.000 I think, hopefully that gives us an opening in the future, but right now we have not received any feedback. Thank you for your efforts. Yeah. 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:59.000 All right. Any more discussion on that you ready to move on. 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:10.000 Yes ma'am. All right. And three see number eight LC 23 dash 041. And our agenda is to hold a discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project matrix. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:24.000 So, any discussion on this. So, we just have this request so I'll remove this for next time. I do plan on bringing kind of the this one back benefits regarding preserving historic properties. 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:39.000 I feel like we've had a, we've had our success stories as of late, but kind of, you know, what are those next steps, how do we start really educating and incentivizing those property owners and to designate their properties and I think that's something that we really need 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:49.000 to have a discussion about, and really kind of dive in. So I plan on bringing that back, either in December of this year or January of 2024. 00:56:49.000 --> 00:57:06.000 But is there any items, just so you all know here were the work plan goals obviously we're wrapping up 2023 we're going to be moving into 2024. So I will be bringing back some of the, you know, it could be the same goals and could be different 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:12.000 goals for 2024. Just so that you all know, moving into the new year. 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:23.000 But is there anything in the meantime that you all want to add to the matrix, or do you think this is good for now and then we'll just kind of come up with new stuff in 2024. 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:40.000 My thought is it's good now but I think we have to start building back positive winds. And I think it's kind of baby steps that we need to take. And I think when we do that, and then you scroll back to go down. 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:58.000 I think that will help us, we have more people that are interested in becoming part of the historic commission of the community. And then that tax exempt I think is, it's really going to have some spotlights on it to be able to do that. 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:02.000 Right now we're just not seeing that. Right. 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:10.000 But I think that's tax and I think some incentives, we can start educating people about that. 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:16.000 Again, you know, to Lance's point, it's expensive. 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:33.000 And I can know what a benefit would be for them. I just think education is going to be huge. Sorry, anybody else have any other thoughts. No, but how do we do that. That's the big question. 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:49.000 I think we talked about earlier on that on some of that, you know spotlight and a two easy credit quarterly thing I think those starting those are a great place to start. I think a landing page would be huge. 00:58:49.000 --> 00:59:06.000 That's a good place to start there because I think if we just start with a walking tour or touring homes and stuff. 00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:21.000 That would be better. A tour driving to a belief of different O'Neill board properties, in order to highlight my fair. That's one that I can serve. 00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:29.000 So I'll keep you guys on what's in there, and it's a new house or true good. Correct. It's one of the halls. 00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:38.000 There's one on Mariana to do you have this book. 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:48.000 Oh, I don't have that book that they have it at the library. I have that book. 00:59:48.000 --> 01:00:04.000 I guess leave the list as is for now and then click it adding on to it when 2024 rolls around. Because obviously if we get our page, it'd be cool to have one of those widgets that then if there's an Instagram, we can control content like photos of homes or photos of past success. 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:16.000 That's something that will be pretty easy to manage. Yeah, we do have an Instagram page but it's preserved in. Yeah, preserved in. 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:26.000 But we haven't highlighted any of the HLC wins so that can be something that we start doing is adding that series to that. 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:42.000 So that can be because it's supposed to be representing our special collections team and our historic preservation team, and y'all are part of that team. So it's definitely something that we can start highlighting for sure, because that's we can even highlight it tonight saying hey, here's what we consider to win. 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:52.000 We have what it looks like now was proposed to be and we're really excited to see what it has in the future. We'll come back to you guys in a year with a new post or something. 01:00:52.000 --> 01:01:16.000 So, and speaking of wins Cameron what would you say, maybe in the last three months, so COAs that you've approved. Like, just a number. I don't want to know specific just like you just had a number. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:26.000 Yeah, let's revisit that because I'd like to include. Okay, those types of things. 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:30.000 All right, any other discussion. 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:47.000 If there's no discussion, I will move to adjourn. There you go. Thank you.