WEBVTT

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 Welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for Wednesday,

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 November 1, 2023.

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 This is our special called work session, and with the quorum present, I will call us to

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 order at 4.08 p.m.

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 I'll let the record show that Commissioner Villarreal is absent from today's meeting.

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 We've got one item on our work session today, and it is 1A, receive a report, hold a discussion,

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 give staff direction regarding the draft goals, objectives, implementation strategies for

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 the Northeast Denton Area Plan.

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 We've got a lot of material to cover.

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 Angie's going to open this meeting.

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 We are going to get through presentation.

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 There are breaks in the presentation where we can have questions answered, but we've

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 got to get through the information before we can get any kind of discussion started.

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 So I will let Angie take it away, and go from there.

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 Thank you.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 Good evening, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, Angie Mangler, Senior Planner

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 Development Services.

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 This is a special called meeting to discuss the draft goals, objectives, recommendations,

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 implementation strategies for the Northeast Denton Area Plan.

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 Just to give you a little bit of recap as to why we're here at the August 1, 2023 joint

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 work session with the Northeast Denton Area Plan Steering Committee.

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 The Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council direction was given to move forward

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 with scenario two, or what was called the Balancing Act at the time.

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 From there, draft goals and recommended implementation strategies have been prepared, and that's

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 what we're here to discuss this afternoon.

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 So your task today is to get through a hefty amount of material.

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 As the Chair stated, we have 21 recommended implementation strategies that we will be

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 discussing.

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 They fall into five broad categories.

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 Land development, infrastructure development, economic development, environmental preservation,

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 and historic preservation.

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 So in each of those five categories, you're going to find several recommended implementation

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 strategies that tie back to the goals of the Northeast Denton Area Plan.

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 Our consultant, Shai, will be presenting the material.

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 There will be a set of slides for land development, and at the end of that section, we'll take

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 a brief pause for any questions that came up regarding the land development scenarios,

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 recommended strategies that were proposed, and then we'll move on to the next, and we'll

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 do the same with infrastructure, and we'll make our way through the presentation gradually.

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 It is a lengthy presentation.

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 At the end, what we would like from you all is we have a matrix of each of the strategies

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 that is proposed.

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 Do you generally agree with the strategy?

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 Do you not?

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 Does the strategy need some modification?

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 And the objective of this meeting is at the end of the presentation, and after discussing

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 through all of the strategies, to receive some form of consensus on each of them, whether

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 that be agree that this is appropriate for the plan, agree that it's not appropriate

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 for the plan, or agree that it's okay to move forward, but you have some modifications for

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 it.

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 With that, I believe that's all I have.

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 Tina, did you want to add anything?

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 There it goes.

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 Tina Fargans, Deputy Director of Development Services and Planning Director.

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 Just wanted to add, I know that there may be some questions with respect to the scenario

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 two plan.

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 Our purpose here is not to rehash that this evening.

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 Council gave us direction on that scenario two plan, and so that's what we're moving

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 forward with.

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 I would like for you to then focus your discussion, as Angie put it, on the strategies that will

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 be presented this evening.

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 Keep in mind, all of this work builds upon itself, based upon past direction that we've

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 received, and then eventually gets formulated and put into the final plan.

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 With that, I'll turn it over to the Chair.

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 If you have anything additional, otherwise we can start with our presentation.

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 No, I'm good.

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 I'm ready for it.

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 All right.

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 We'll turn it over to Shai, and we will start our presentation.

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 Thank you all.

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 Thank you, Angie.

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 Good afternoon, Chair, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

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 Thank you all so much for your time.

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 I know your time is very short, so I'm going to just start with our presentation.

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 So, again, reiterating what Angie said, today we are hoping to receive direction from you

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 all on the draft goals, objectives, and strategies for the plan, and also any advice you all

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 have for us on these draft goals and objectives and strategies.

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 In the end, like she said, we'd like to know which strategies you'd like to keep, remove,

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 modify, or recommend any changes to.

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 So, today's agenda, we'll start with a quick little background, and then what the framework

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 is for these, talk about the goals, objectives, and then go through those recommended strategies,

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 and then have the direction and discussion at the end.

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 So, really quick on the background, when we started working on this plan, we received

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 a lot of the previous planning materials from staff and from the city, and what we did was

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 we looked at all those previous effort, planning efforts, we've reviewed the comprehensive

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 plan, we looked at the North Denton Neighborhood Association plan, and a lot of this comes

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 from that.

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 Our next step was to go through public engagement to make sure what out of those previous planning

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 efforts was valid, what still worked, what was still needed and wanted.

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 All the details about this public engagement are in another presentation on the website

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 for people who want to know what was the purpose behind each of these and what the results

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 of each of these were in detail around the website, so I won't go through all of this

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 again, but summary, we really talked to a lot of people, we talked to the residents,

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 we talked to the developers, we talked to the landowners, we even talked to people from

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 all over the city of each age group to make sure that they were all involved in the plan,

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 and what came out of this was, in short, there were many more that you can see in the presentation,

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 but in short, people wanted to preserve rural character, wanted to preserve open space,

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 did not want apartments, wanted a walkable outdoor recreation family place, they did

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 want to turn this into some kind of a showcase or a legacy area for the region also.

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 So that's the short summary we did go through, and I've highlighted the main points of the

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 vision statement so we don't go through the whole long thing, but as you can see, people

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 wanted rural housing, two to five acre lots, they wanted to look at the standards that

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 were outlined in the 2040 comp plan, conservation development to retain rural character, protect

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 open space was main point, another was make the space available for all of Denton to enjoy.

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 So going forward, August 1st, you all were there at the meeting, we were given the direction

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 to proceed with scenario two, the next two maps kind of recap what the scenario two land

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 use and zoning was, the main thing we wanted to point out is there was a gateway land use

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 description in scenario two, and it caused a little confusion because there's north side

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 the gateway had recommended multifamily, but the areas of gateway that were shown south

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 of hardly field did not have multifamily, so because it caused confusion, we divided

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 it into two and now we're calling it gateway north and gateway south.

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 So as you can see, we also have hashed the area that is not within the city limits and

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 therefore not under any city control.

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 It's in the county, the reason I just want to reiterate that there are proposed recommendations

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 in this area is so that if anybody in the future wants to annex into the city, the city

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 will know what zoning or what kind of standards to apply to that property and it will be clear

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 to the property owner what standards they can expect to have applied to the property.

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 As mentioned, can you all see the, yeah.

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 So these two are the gateway north, the pink at the south here and here are gateway south.

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 One quick thought here, the rural village center which at this point is shown in the

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 county area.

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 The purpose of this land use category is so that it can also be applied if needed within

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 the residential transition or between the residential and rural transition.

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 The purpose of this is to provide neighborhood type retail uses that people can walk to and

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 bike to and reduce the car trips.

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 This is the mobility plan that was being recommended.

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 We'll talk more in detail about how it differs from the others.

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 As you can see, there are some roadways recommended in the county area and the reason for that

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 is not to go building everything right now.

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 The reason is that we can still do platting in the county and so when we do plat, we can

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 ask for the right of way.

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 We don't have to build the roadways if there is no development but at least you'll have

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 the right of way in case development happens there, we can at least build the roadways

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 and that's the main purpose for it.

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 Going forward, the plan or the strategies are framed in five different categories.

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 Angie went through those so we'll start with the goals.

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 These goals are exactly the same taken from Denton 2040 comp plan and the North Denton

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 neighborhood area plan.

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 It is to have stage growth which is fiscally and environmentally sound and then conservation

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 development to retain rural character, protect open space and greenways.

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 So objectives, again, the ones, the highlighted yellow part tells you what text has been exactly

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 taken from the North Denton area plan.

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 As you can see, a lot of what they had was really good work.

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 We've just taken it, enhanced it, and added a way to make it implementable.

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 And so it's environmental preservation, health safety quality of life, rural character, preserving

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 historic assets, turning this area into a regional asset and then to foster economic

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 stability.

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 Looking at those two goals and these five objectives is how we'd like you to listen

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 to the strategies moving forward.

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 So the first strategy is, of course, conservation development and to promote it for all future

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 developments in this area regardless of what the development is, where it is.

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 And you can see from these three ideas that the idea is higher the density, more open

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 space you get for conservation.

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 The one thing to note is when we say that's open space, that is public open space in addition

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 to areas like the flood plain, areas that cannot be developed.

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 This is land that can be developed that we are saying if we give them more density, they

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 can actually give you the land that they would have otherwise developed to put in a conservation

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 easement or dedicated as open space, which is public open space.

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 So all these three scenarios, density is three units per acre.

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 It's just how it's laid out.

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 This we'll go through, hopefully you've all read the details of how, why we can come back

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 to it if you all have questions.

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 We'll move on to strategy two, that is retail commercial and three units per acre development

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 being closer to the major roadways on the sides as you can see.

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 And that way the lower density development towards the big green space conservation area

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 flood plain to preserve it.

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 And that is exactly following the plan and the idea that comes out of North Denton Neighborhood

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 Association plan.

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 And that's more about how to do it, why to do it.

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 The third strategy is neighborhood level commercial development at specific nodes, I just talked

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 about it.

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 This is kind of a hypothetical rendering, but the idea is to preserve that rural character,

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 create this little node so people can walk to and not have to drive all over for their

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 everyday needs to still feel like they're in a rural area, but not have to get in their

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 car for getting to basic retail or a restaurant or something.

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 And then strategy four is design standards, and design standards that can enhance the

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 rural character of the area.

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 We're recommending that a set of standards be developed that are specific to Northeast

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 Denton area so the development can add and enhance the rural character that is there.

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 The fifth strategy is development agreements, and as we've talked about it a lot before,

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 the majority of the study area is in the ETJ, really not much land user zoning control on

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 this land.

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 And if you have development agreements, this would be a way to protect this area, so it

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 would mean that the property owners would voluntarily enter into a development agreement

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 with the city, which would say that they can develop it as it is a little bit more, but

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 keep the land use as what it is.

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 But if in the future they sell it to a developer or they want to do a higher density development,

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 something different, it would voluntarily come into city limits, and then this plan

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 and all the other city regulations would apply.

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 So that would protect all the neighbors around, because then there would be some control on

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 what goes on to that property.

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 So that's the whole purpose of development agreement is people who are there, people

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 who want to keep it open, want to just live there, can stay as is, if at all they plan

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 to sell it, or in the future their heirs sell it, then the city would have some control,

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 and the people would have some security of knowing that there will be some control.

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 So those are the five land use strategies.

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 I know I rushed through it, but do you all have any questions or clarifications on that

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 one?

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 Commissioner Smith.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 On the development agreements, the last piece, how does that done?

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 Is it done through deed restrictions?

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 Is it, and essentially the point of my question is how legally binding is that?

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 So they are done as development agreements, much like we've done development agreements

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 with some of the municipal utility districts, also we've done non-annexation agreements.

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 So they would be similar in that regard, where they're entered into, negotiated with the

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 property owner in the city.

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 And then there are, typically development agreements are approved by council, and then

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 we can have them filed a record, so that way they also show up any time a title search

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 is done.

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 But it's negotiated between the city and the property owner.

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 So filed with the title, so I mean this is the most likely scenario.

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 So this is what's happened in the past when we've seen developments on the north side.

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 Original landowner, either in older age or in death, a state or inheritors are dealing

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 with the sale of that land, and they're trying to get rid of it.

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 They sell it to whoever a developer is looking to buy it, the developer should be doing their

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 research and pulling and checking title records.

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 If they don't, they just buy it anyway, so when they go pull title records to be able

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 to go through and start the development process, they would find that, correct?

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 Correct.

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 And then we, the city, also would keep track of those, much like what we do right now with

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 the non-annexation agreements that we have.

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 We've got them mapped, and then we're able to, you know, as people come in and raise

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 questions regarding what they might be able to do with their property longer term, then

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 we're able to also advise them that the property is subject to this agreement.

00:17:27.320 --> 00:17:28.320
 Okay.

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 That's question 1A.

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 Question 1B.

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 Who solicits these?

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 I understand who maintains, but who's going in soliciting these development agreements?

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 Is it city staff that's going after the landowners over there?

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 Is it, we hope the neighborhood goes and talks to these owners and say, "Hey, you need to

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 voluntarily go to the city and ask about a development agreement and do that."

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 Who's soliciting these?

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 So typically it would be the property owner, the property owner coming in and having conversations

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 with city staff about, "Hey, we're interested in developing the property.

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 What's our longer term options associated with this?"

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 And we would engage in that conversation, you know, with, particularly with it being

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 property within the ETJ.

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 As Shy pointed out, we do have limited regulatory authority within the ETJ when it comes to

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 regulating land uses.

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 So it would be, if someone is interested in doing something with their property longer

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 term, then us engaging in that conversation with them.

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 How often is the landowner, I mean, this is, that's a step.

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 It's more than a step.

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 It's a mile before it comes to our viewpoint.

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 How often do landowners come in and talk to city staff before they even get into conversations

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 with the developer or get into conversations with what they want to do?

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:44.040
 I mean, I understand a landowner as the developer who bought the land then comes in and talks,

00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:49.680
 but, you know, Joe Blow Rancher, who's got 300 acres, who comes in and talks that often

00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.680
 about that forehand?

00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.920
 You know, that's really difficult to quantify.

00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.480
 So it's, you know, I believe when we did the non annexation agreements and Scott and Hailey,

00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.480
 correct me if I'm wrong.

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.640
 I believe the city initiated some of that with respect to the non annexation agreements

00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:09.000
 to particular to address the donut holes within our city limits.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:12.760
 So maybe we were a little proactive in that regard, but Scott, do you have anything else

00:19:12.760 --> 00:19:13.760
 to add?

00:19:13.760 --> 00:19:17.620
 Yeah, I would say over the past five years, we've probably had a half dozen people that

00:19:17.620 --> 00:19:21.000
 have approached the city to get into an agreement for a variety of reasons.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:26.480
 So it's infrequent, so had a conversation today, actually.

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.080
 And infrequency doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't, it doesn't happen, right?

00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:35.800
 Infrequency just means that it wasn't necessarily a necessity earlier on or it wasn't on the

00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:36.800
 front of the line.

00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:39.200
 Correct, it's another tool in the toolbox for a property owner and/or staff to be able

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.200
 to use.

00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:46.040
 And if it's put out there, if it's advertised, I know this is too early, but one thing that

00:19:46.040 --> 00:19:48.800
 I think I got a modification I have to come back to on that strategy.

00:19:48.800 --> 00:19:51.440
 So I don't know if I share it now or...

00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.440
 Nope, we're not there yet.

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.440
 Got it.

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.360
 I would just add, you know, one of the other things that's going to drive that conversation

00:19:56.360 --> 00:20:01.000
 with landowners and is the availability of infrastructure.

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:06.160
 Because in many cases, water and sewer is not available, and so they're looking to how

00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.560
 do they get water and sewer extended, and it's not uncommon that development community

00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:13.760
 is also looking to the city to see if there's any financial resources to be able to contribute

00:20:13.760 --> 00:20:15.560
 towards that extension of utilities.

00:20:15.560 --> 00:20:19.560
 So that also helps in being able to solicit and having that conversation, much like with

00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:22.640
 some of the developments that we're having happen on our west side of town.

00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.440
 They've got an infrastructure cost associated with it, and so they're looking to us to see

00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.440
 if we might be willing to participate in that.

00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:36.280
 And so the lack of utilities in an area can help with initiating that conversation to

00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:37.280
 begin with.

00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:43.160
 And Commissioner, I can later on give you some case studies where we have recommended

00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:49.360
 this strategy specifically to protect open space and land in two cities in the Metroplex

00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:50.800
 and how that was done.

00:20:50.800 --> 00:20:54.280
 We plan to put that in the action steps.

00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:57.400
 For the sake of time, I don't think I'll necessarily need it if the other commissioners want to

00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.920
 hear it, but I think that if it's been used in the past, I'll trust the experts in the

00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:02.920
 historical side of things.

00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.920
 I think just maybe for me, it's coming down to a point of notification and awareness,

00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:08.920
 and so we'll come back to that in modifications.

00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:09.920
 So thanks.

00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:10.920
 Thank you.

00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:11.920
 Commissioner Cole.

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.960
 Thank you, Chair.

00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:22.680
 Real quick, Tina, you know, we talked about ETJ1 being able to get brought into the city,

00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:28.640
 but can't the opposite now work, where ETJ1 can punch out and go the other way?

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.640
 That is true.

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.200
 Given the recent changes in the state statute earlier this year, that is true.

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.320
 Property owners can petition to be removed from the ETJ.

00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:42.480
 That makes it even more difficult, because when they have removed themselves from the

00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:48.520
 ETJ, then our subdivision regulations even come into question being able to be applied.

00:21:48.520 --> 00:21:50.880
 Commissioner Prout.

00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:58.560
 Yeah, just a question on the, I guess, the overall land development strategies.

00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:05.480
 I'm trying to remember exactly, early on, there was some development of a projected

00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:12.400
 growth and therefore amount of homes that we expected in this area.

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.520
 Would you expect the development pressure within this area to be influenced by the amount

00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:22.640
 of development that is allowed elsewhere in the city?

00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.960
 In this area, though, not elsewhere in the city.

00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.520
 So let me restate.

00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:33.640
 Would you expect the development pressure as far as how, yeah, within Northeast Denton

00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:39.760
 to be increased or decreased, depending on how much development is allowed in the rest

00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:41.400
 of the city?

00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.760
 How much supply is coming online in other areas?

00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:50.160
 It's difficult to say, but probably not, because development is locational.

00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:56.640
 And so, rest of the city, maybe their supply, but with outer looping here, development coming

00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:03.560
 from Aubrey, 380, 428, those are the factors that the developers really like and the market

00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:05.360
 likes for development.

00:23:05.360 --> 00:23:10.760
 And so, that's what's going to drive development here, is people are going to want to live

00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:15.560
 here, people are going to want to get around the metroplex from here, because this will

00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:22.720
 be the new area, this will be the fast connecting area, this is where the new things are going

00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:29.000
 to come because of all the development that's coming from south as well as the east towards

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.000
 here.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.960
 And Shai, if I could add to that also, I think the size of the tracts of land that are available

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.640
 for development are going to play into that as well, right?

00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.380
 Because some of the larger tracts of land are available more on the periphery areas

00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:43.720
 of the city compared to the interior.

00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:48.560
 So I know your email that you had sent to the staff in some past conversations that

00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:52.400
 we've had, I know you've been interested in trying to focus development more inward

00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:59.480
 into the city, providing increased densities within the city, but the land inside the loop,

00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.880
 if you will, at least, those are smaller tracts, those larger tracts have already been developed,

00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.560
 and so for developers who are interested in doing larger tract development, particularly

00:24:07.560 --> 00:24:12.080
 single family residential neighborhoods, hence why they look beyond the loop.

00:24:12.080 --> 00:24:19.160
 Okay, I understand all that, I'm surprised by the response.

00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:23.680
 I think what I'm hearing is that staff doesn't believe that will actually happen, that there

00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:28.600
 will be more development within the core of Denton in the next 20 years, and therefore

00:24:28.600 --> 00:24:32.120
 we have to plan for this amount of growth out there.

00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:40.840
 Because certainly, I mean, if in an imaginary situation, 50,000 homes were built in other

00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:46.120
 areas of Denton, I don't see how that doesn't affect the demand for additional homes in

00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:49.320
 Northeastern, I just don't understand.

00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:53.240
 And what we would do, though, is where there are tracts available, try to steer developers

00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:58.000
 towards that, there may not be as large tracts development that are more into the city.

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.760
 The other thing is the city would have to have a conversation, and I know our comprehensive

00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:05.800
 plan addresses this to some extent, regarding if we are going to allow for densification

00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:09.120
 of development, where does that occur?

00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:12.440
 As you're well aware of, we're going on the downtown plan, if we're looking at trying

00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:17.560
 to attract higher density development to be able to support businesses that are within

00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:21.280
 the downtown area, then is it appropriate to increase the density?

00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:22.720
 It possibly is.

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.240
 But we would have to look at other areas of the city to see where does it make sense to

00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.320
 be able to add those housing options, and what do those housing options look like?

00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:33.840
 Because the housing options that are offered more towards the interior of the city, especially

00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:38.400
 if they're greater density and development, are likely going to be different compared

00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:44.320
 to where you may see in other areas of the city, such as in Northeast Dunton.

00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:50.760
 And there's future strategies here to do what you are alluding to, so the city would have

00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:56.240
 to take certain actions to drive a lot of it towards there.

00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.680
 Completely understand that there's a whole bunch of stuff that's out of scope of the

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:01.680
 Northeast area.

00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:06.000
 I'm just trying to understand what are the trade-offs and push-pull situations.

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.520
 Thank you.

00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:10.320
 Anybody else at this break?

00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:11.320
 No?

00:26:11.320 --> 00:26:12.320
 Okay.

00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:13.320
 Go ahead.

00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:17.600
 So, infrastructure development strategies.

00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:22.140
 The first one is complete streets, context-sensitive street designs.

00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:29.200
 Complete streets just means all modes, not just the car, but walking, biking, maybe even

00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.200
 transit.

00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:37.120
 Street-sensitive usually has been used in an urban context, but this is a rural context,

00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:43.720
 so as you can see, all it means is what is the area wanting to be, and let's design our

00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:47.720
 roadways and cross-sections to be compatible with it.

00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:53.640
 Three-lane divided or undivided with curb and gutter is not going to give you the feel

00:26:53.640 --> 00:27:02.560
 of a rural area, whereas maybe travel lanes with bioswales in between trees, larger open

00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:09.780
 spaces next to the walking paths, those are the kind of things that will create that context

00:27:09.780 --> 00:27:16.060
 of a rural environment, so that's to maintain that character and then also to promote safety

00:27:16.060 --> 00:27:18.880
 in biking and walking in the area.

00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.520
 People have told us that that's what they would love to do in the area, and they're

00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:26.360
 already very upset about not being safe.

00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:31.960
 They remember being kids and riding their bikes, and so this is a strategy to help with

00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.220
 that.

00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:42.040
 Just a connected strategy to this is to amend the traditional cross-section, street cross-sections

00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:48.900
 that are all over Denton and frankly all over the Metroplex into creating that rural character

00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:58.720
 and context-sensitive area that is compatible with the feel and the vision that people have,

00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.880
 and that just means, again, adding bioswales.

00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:07.280
 You can see what the street looks like now, and then if you just, you've got the right

00:28:07.280 --> 00:28:12.440
 of way, if you just added bioswales instead of that curb and gutter and just flat land

00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:19.120
 and put trees, it'll give you the feeling of being nestled in this natural tree line,

00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:20.360
 things like that.

00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:26.120
 So that's your strategy seven is to amend that transportation manual.

00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:32.600
 And then strategy eight is to develop a network of trails to connect people and places in

00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:39.680
 the community to create safety, to provide opportunities for outdoor recreation, and

00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:47.440
 of course, healthy lifestyles and site impact is increased value for the nearby properties.

00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:55.100
 So we've all seen that the value of property next to these off-street trails is quite higher

00:28:55.100 --> 00:28:58.280
 than ones that are not close to it.

00:28:58.280 --> 00:29:05.340
 Again, you can see in every strategy we're putting what page of the North Denton Neighborhood

00:29:05.340 --> 00:29:12.760
 Association plan, these ideas were mentioned, and we're just talking about how you can actually

00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:14.400
 get it done.

00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:22.360
 And so strategy nine, we have to expand transit options both in the employment centers in

00:29:22.360 --> 00:29:30.240
 the southern portion, but also if we are trying to turn this into a legacy regional asset

00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:35.960
 or a legacy for the outdoor community, then you're going to have a lot of those weekend

00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:41.920
 visitors to the nature center or the mountain bike trail or any other open spaces that are

00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:48.240
 created in this area, at which time you're going to have cars inundating this area.

00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:55.200
 So having public transit and making sure that people do get to the area, but don't bring

00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.520
 the negative impact of coming to the area.

00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:04.920
 So that's the reason behind this strategy is to provide for that.

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.360
 So strategy 10, this is where we'll talk a little bit about that plan.

00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:14.920
 This is to ensure that traffic does not negatively impact existing residential.

00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:21.740
 Whatever the future developments happen in the area, we want to take care of the development.

00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:31.080
 So one of the things, this is the on your left side is the existing thoroughfare plan.

00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:32.960
 Right side is what we're proposing.

00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:40.020
 So first thing is we've taken down the primary arterials and turned them into secondary arterials.

00:30:40.020 --> 00:30:45.840
 So we're taking down the classification for 28 has been moved from freeway classification

00:30:45.840 --> 00:30:51.440
 to the primary arterial classification.

00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.600
 And then you can see this east west roadway has just been stopped.

00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:59.420
 It's not continuing on and connecting.

00:30:59.420 --> 00:31:03.640
 We do have up here, we've added more streets.

00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.280
 The idea is not to go start building them.

00:31:06.280 --> 00:31:15.400
 The idea is depending on what the proposed outer loop alignment's going to be and then

00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:20.960
 when it is going to be built and then what type of developments coming in, that's when

00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.560
 you would want to build those.

00:31:23.560 --> 00:31:30.240
 Right now, same here, if this big tract here does develop, well then you're going to need

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.960
 a connection here.

00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:40.060
 But we would recommend that you build this little network right next to say loop 288

00:31:40.060 --> 00:31:45.400
 and 428 because right now already there's a traffic issue right here and this is the

00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:50.200
 roadways that will help ease that traffic congestion there.

00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:58.560
 So down here in the employment area, industrial area, making these few connections is going

00:31:58.560 --> 00:32:07.040
 to make it a little easier for those trucks to move around and not idle around on the

00:32:07.040 --> 00:32:08.040
 roadways.

00:32:08.040 --> 00:32:16.360
 So that's the ten strategies, five strategies for infrastructure.

00:32:16.360 --> 00:32:17.360
 Commissioner Smith.

00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:19.720
 Thank you, Chair.

00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:25.360
 How does changing 428 from being a highway classification, a primary, I should say how,

00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:33.080
 does changing it and this change how TxDOT might view that road?

00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:35.080
 They're the ones that have given us that direction.

00:32:35.080 --> 00:32:40.280
 So shortly, you know, when we went through the mobility update in 2022 and adopted our

00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:45.480
 mobility plan, at that time we were advised that they were going to make it freeway status.

00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:50.240
 So we reflected that on our mobility plan and less than a year after having our mobility

00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:54.920
 plan adopted, they came back and informed us that they decided that that would be primary

00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:56.160
 arterial status.

00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:02.280
 So hence the primary arterial status on this plan recommendation to get that updated.

00:33:02.280 --> 00:33:11.120
 Is that a harbinger for how they feel that road should be improved in the future?

00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:16.320
 From our indications, it's yes, that's what they're anticipating, is that it would be

00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:21.520
 that primary arterial, which is typically that six lane divided roadway status.

00:33:21.520 --> 00:33:25.120
 And David is on our consultant team and on the transportation aspect and may have more

00:33:25.120 --> 00:33:26.120
 to add.

00:33:26.120 --> 00:33:29.240
 Before David answers, I'll just say I'll stop beating around the bush and just say what

00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:30.240
 it is.

00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.840
 If it's called a highway and it's exact same status it is today, two lane undivided and

00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:41.600
 it goes from being highway classification in TxDOT's mind and now on our mobility plan

00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:46.920
 to being primary arterial and still the exact same as it is today.

00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:50.640
 Is that making it less likely that they will come in with a capital improvement project

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.720
 sooner to improve that roadway?

00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.320
 I guess we do need to classify, the classification is different here.

00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:59.040
 We've got the city of Denton classification and then you have the classification from

00:33:59.040 --> 00:34:00.040
 TxDOT.

00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:06.800
 So TxDOT already identifies 428 as an arterial, not necessarily as a freeway or a other highway

00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:10.280
 which would be kind of a higher magnitude.

00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:16.320
 So that's one item and just to note, the TxDOT, at least Dallas district policy on FM roads

00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:21.720
 has been more proactive where they are looking at any future improvements, they're looking

00:34:21.720 --> 00:34:26.360
 at how can we make sure that it is a six lane facility and not just a four lane facility

00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:30.880
 so they're trying to maximize the amount of right of way footprint and that preclude future

00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.040
 improvements in these areas and they're doing that for all the FM roads within the Collin

00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:39.000
 County and Denton area as we speak now.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:43.400
 But the fact that it's not, the fact that it's a two lane undivided road now, and they

00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.800
 originally said it's highway, it's not a highway.

00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.680
 If it's now a primary arterial in their mind, does that make it less likely that there would

00:34:50.680 --> 00:34:54.520
 be addressing the expansion of 428 sooner?

00:34:54.520 --> 00:34:57.200
 Does that make sense that if it's, hey we think that's a highway and the highway I'm

00:34:57.200 --> 00:35:01.820
 guessing, I'm just going to make it up, is an eight lane divided road and right now it's

00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:08.240
 freeway sorry, and right now it's two lane undivided, therefore it's so far out of compliance

00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:12.760
 for their mobility plan, we need to address that sooner, but now they reclassify it as

00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:18.800
 being a primary arterial which is a three lane divided and it's right now it's two

00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:23.280
 lane undivided because we changed it from being a freeway down to being primary arterial,

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.920
 they're deprioritizing the improvement of that road, does that make sense?

00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:35.200
 I would say not necessarily, you know we work extensively with TechStop regarding roadways

00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:47.480
 that are in need of attention and working with them on which areas are priorities for

00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:48.480
 the community.

00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:54.440
 So it's, I mean we meet with them regularly, they do seek our feedback, I mean we're working

00:35:54.440 --> 00:36:01.320
 with them extensively on the 380 direct connector, also we've been influential in working with

00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:05.920
 them on what we believe our needs are as it relates to loop 288 and the need for frontage

00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:15.160
 roads there, so the timing of the growth that happens within an area also influences the

00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:21.480
 timing of highway improvements being completed or freeway improvements or even improvements

00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:25.040
 probably to you know FM roads that TechStop has.

00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:32.820
 So it's you know they're taken into consideration regional growth that happens and then also

00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:37.480
 funding sources that are available in another community that I worked in.

00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:45.120
 The phase two widening of I-35 was escalated about 20 years because the voters of Texas

00:36:45.120 --> 00:36:54.480
 approved additional funding in a previous election many years ago that accelerated funding

00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:59.320
 being available and then because of the amount of traffic, the significance of the road within

00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:05.440
 the area there were all these various different factors that went into them moving that expansion

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.760
 to the forefront and a road that we thought wasn't going to be touched until the year

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:15.360
 2030 all of a sudden is getting addressed in the year 2020.

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.680
 Yeah I think the bottom line is the classification isn't the only driving factor, correct?

00:37:20.680 --> 00:37:25.800
 Yeah originally TechStop didn't have funding for 428 and to my knowledge they haven't

00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:30.800
 added or changed any added funding to 428 when it got put down to an arterial.

00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:31.800
 Okay thank you.

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:38.480
 And the only reason to have this in the plan is so that the property owners along the site

00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:44.480
 know what to expect so the type of development they would have planned for if it was a freeway

00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:49.640
 versus if it's an arterial then that gets different.

00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:52.000
 Thank you.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.160
 Anybody else on this round of strategies, questions or clarification?

00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:58.160
 Commissioner Pruitt?

00:37:58.160 --> 00:38:00.680
 Thank you Chair.

00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:06.240
 First just in general on the infrastructure strategies I didn't see anything in here

00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:13.520
 about some of the utility things that are sort of non-road infrastructure.

00:38:13.520 --> 00:38:23.080
 Help me understand why that's not a big concern for this area.

00:38:23.080 --> 00:38:30.200
 So it is and we've looked at well you cannot answer too but let me quickly answer we looked

00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:38.680
 at it and we've looked at the city's five-year capital plan there are water sewer lines planned

00:38:38.680 --> 00:38:45.320
 but they're way far off so if the idea is to preserve this area then you don't want

00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:49.080
 to recommend water sewer being provided.

00:38:49.080 --> 00:38:55.920
 The only reason this area has not exploded like Aubrey has is because there's no water

00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.920
 sewer.

00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.360
 So that's one of the reasons we did not go there.

00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.520
 People are still driving so we had to talk about the roads.

00:39:04.520 --> 00:39:08.000
 It wasn't shown on the typicals but typically the typical section allows for those utility

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:14.600
 corridors to run adjacent to those facilities so that would be incorporated as well in there.

00:39:14.600 --> 00:39:20.040
 Sure from a right-of-way availability perspective I'm thinking more from a capital improvement

00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:26.880
 perspective right near this area there's been a you know proposed project of an additional

00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:33.160
 water treatment plant or sewage treatment plant sorry to mix my terms and I'm not a

00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:44.560
 civil engineer here but the I guess I'm trying to understand I don't want to go into detail.

00:39:44.560 --> 00:39:51.680
 It seems to me like the decisions that we make going forward for this area there may

00:39:51.680 --> 00:39:59.460
 be certain step sizes of amount of intensity or homes in certain areas that would trigger

00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:05.560
 additional lift stations additional sewage treatment plants that would be helpful to

00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:11.160
 understand just from a optimization perspective if that makes sense so I was I was just surprised

00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:12.160
 to not see it.

00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:19.120
 So the strategy here is to discourage development okay so if the city's not planning anything

00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:24.720
 then people know that okay if you're going to develop oh sorry if you're going to develop

00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:29.980
 then you're going to spend that kind of money to build that infrastructure or at least to

00:40:29.980 --> 00:40:39.480
 know that it's not planned so okay that was a typical strategy to prevent okay sorry and

00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:46.160
 Eric if I can add to that also one of the things that our water wastewater utility team

00:40:46.160 --> 00:40:52.960
 is doing is they are working on a water and wastewater master plan they work very closely

00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:58.160
 with us to understand development conditions that are happening within the area and to

00:40:58.160 --> 00:41:03.680
 be able to plan accordingly so you know we continue to work with them and advise them

00:41:03.680 --> 00:41:10.140
 of you know here's what we're seeing happening within the ETJ where we can't control the

00:41:10.140 --> 00:41:15.440
 land use but this is what we're seeing happen within the areas of the city limits here the

00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:21.960
 land uses that are being recommended or in this case you know strong preservation of

00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:27.080
 environmental resources and preservation of land and so they're able to factor that into

00:41:27.080 --> 00:41:32.280
 their assumptions and then they continue to monitor that over time as well okay and as

00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:42.960
 you can see all the city land here is pretty close to the existing utilities and so we

00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:50.000
 didn't want to actually provide reason for people to yeah so I think now that I'm parsing

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:58.720
 the words a little bit better the right way to message it correct me if I'm wrong is that

00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:04.360
 we have things on our long-term plans but we have no funded projects to go out ourselves

00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:11.440
 and build that infrastructure such that as development occurs in different areas we have

00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:18.720
 a tool to require connection through a particular route and and size of pipe and that sort of

00:42:18.720 --> 00:42:24.040
 thing but we we're not actively looking at going out and preemptively putting in that

00:42:24.040 --> 00:42:34.760
 infrastructure so correct okay thank you and then quick question to staff the the transit

00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:41.880
 thing seems a little bit out of place from a rural thing but then I see employment centers

00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:49.160
 I understand there's an area you know south of the railroad tracks just north of 380 I

00:42:49.160 --> 00:43:02.480
 my question is does the staff feel that having that sorry terminology a strategy thank you

00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:16.100
 within this plan is is beneficial rather than distractive from transit discussions that

00:43:16.100 --> 00:43:23.260
 might be more near term and and higher priority does that make sense I don't want to dilute

00:43:23.260 --> 00:43:30.840
 the amount of effort that we have to spend on improving transit citywide by adding stuff

00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:37.440
 in places where it might not be needed for 20 years does that make sense I think so and

00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:41.900
 I think I understand what you're getting at I guess and I know we had several discussions

00:43:41.900 --> 00:43:50.280
 internally about transit and hence why we were more inclined to think about the employment

00:43:50.280 --> 00:44:00.100
 centers more on the southern end and so you know if you feel that this is a strategy that

00:44:00.100 --> 00:44:05.000
 does not need to be included then would be looking for that direction at that time let's

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:13.040
 circle back to that discussion given direction yeah yeah I'm good thank you okay anybody

00:44:13.040 --> 00:44:20.880
 else we got an or the next list of strategies at the moment okay so the next list is economic

00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:26.920
 development strategies that are four of those we heard a lot about how Denton is unique

00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:34.640
 and we wanted small businesses that were unique mom and pop kind of businesses in this area

00:44:34.640 --> 00:44:40.680
 and also in Denton and if we are giving it wanting a rural character that's more in line

00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:46.440
 with it so this strategy is to create economic development programs and incentives to promote

00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:53.520
 that small business development in the city and and in the implementation action steps

00:44:53.520 --> 00:45:02.080
 we will put in how to do that in the different steps but that's why this strategy is here

00:45:02.080 --> 00:45:07.080
 proactive approach instead of just sitting around and thinking people will open small

00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:12.260
 business if we have a small business office and incentives it's more likely to get those

00:45:12.260 --> 00:45:20.800
 kind of businesses this is one of those strategies that we were talking about Commissioner Pruitt

00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:28.360
 where you said how can we move development somewhere else instead of here so economic

00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:34.720
 development policies to promote open space conservation and management in this area so

00:45:34.720 --> 00:45:39.280
 we've got this whole transfer of development rights there are many other ways to do it

00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:45.960
 like tax incentives for landowners to preserve taxes transfer of development rights land

00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:52.440
 banking public acquisition but this one we're talking about transfer of development rights

00:45:52.440 --> 00:46:00.040
 here where you can designate selling areas and you can designate buying area so for example

00:46:00.040 --> 00:46:10.520
 if this was to be your buying area well it's in the city limits it's got three any any

00:46:10.520 --> 00:46:19.760
 like this one sorry is three units an acre is your buying area your selling area is can

00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:29.040
 now sell that for example if everything for example we just say this whole area you can

00:46:29.040 --> 00:46:34.000
 have three units an acre but we don't want a certain area to develop so we say you can

00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:41.680
 sell your density to that property up there now they can do five units an acre but you

00:46:41.680 --> 00:46:46.560
 then put your land in conservation easement so now they cannot develop that land so we're

00:46:46.560 --> 00:46:52.800
 trying to see if first we start with land in the etj because that we have no control

00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.720
 over so if that can get the selling area that will be good you could do the land around

00:46:58.720 --> 00:47:07.040
 288 as the buying area and then this northeast ending could be the selling area so then you

00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:13.520
 can give more density along the loop and then leave this area into a conservation so that's

00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:19.440
 kind of the concept of transfer development rights this is just a concept we have not

00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:25.360
 developed this this will need a lot more work to decide what's your base density where are

00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:31.440
 those selling areas where are those buying areas do we want to do this within this area

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:38.040
 or you know some property maybe more you're going to have to look at property values you're

00:47:38.040 --> 00:47:43.960
 gonna have to look at which property has access to infrastructure which does not all of those

00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:49.240
 things will have to be taken into consideration when you create this program but this is one

00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:55.080
 program where you can put this as an example of the selling area you can keep this land

00:47:55.080 --> 00:48:02.520
 open if this area would buy that in lieu of say landscaping they don't have enough space

00:48:02.520 --> 00:48:10.520
 to landscape they've they can buy that use the mic oh i'm sorry that's okay because we're

00:48:10.520 --> 00:48:18.920
 streaming so oh sorry so that's the idea here is to give incentives to people to not develop

00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:24.680
 their property mostly we do incentives to develop and this is a strategy to give incentives

00:48:24.680 --> 00:48:30.520
 to people to not develop their property that way you're not taking their property by letting

00:48:30.520 --> 00:48:37.720
 them not develop you're still letting them get use out of their property and then strategy 13 is

00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:44.360
 the design standards so each if we can have economic development policies for each of these

00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:52.280
 land use character areas that is specific to that character area what we want to see in that area

00:48:52.280 --> 00:49:00.120
 and then we can basically say here's an incentive in return for meeting all these design standards

00:49:00.520 --> 00:49:07.720
 so as you all know texas legislation has taken away a lot of city's rights to do a lot of things

00:49:07.720 --> 00:49:15.640
 but you can always give incentives and encourage people to do a development that matches what

00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:24.600
 you all want to see so that's the strategy here and then strategy 14 is right now especially after

00:49:24.600 --> 00:49:31.960
 covid we've got a lot of nomadic workforce people can work from anywhere they're looking for open

00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:39.080
 space and this is a specific demographic that is younger demographic that are very environmentally

00:49:39.080 --> 00:49:48.760
 conscious they volunteer a lot and they like working and living in rural environments and so

00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:57.160
 if we actually go looking for them create certain developments for them solicit that recruit those

00:49:57.160 --> 00:50:03.240
 businesses and amenities that these people like you'll find that they'll be volunteering to take

00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:10.680
 care of the floodplain and cleaning things up and making sure that they're volunteering to keep the

00:50:10.680 --> 00:50:16.760
 open space open and preserving the environment so that's the only reason for this is this area look

00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:23.160
 like a perfect area to if if people are going to move into this area then let's recruit people who

00:50:23.160 --> 00:50:31.000
 appreciate the area and that was it commissioner smith can i just get clarification on strategy 12

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:36.680
 if you can go back to the first second so i know it's not a fully fleshed out policy or standard

00:50:36.680 --> 00:50:39.960
 within there but just so i can understand what you're trying to say within that

00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:44.760
 i thought it was more of as i was read through this before the meeting i thought it was more of

00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:51.480
 we're going to incentivize people to buy in the area something like a you know a tax improvement

00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:56.680
 district or something like that and then we're going to de-incentivize the selling area from

00:50:56.680 --> 00:51:00.840
 whatever development agreements things like that we've already talked about what you're saying is

00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:06.600
 that if somebody exists in the buying area and they can't meet the landscape requirements that

00:51:06.600 --> 00:51:10.200
 are laid out or density they want more density they want more density or something like that

00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:16.600
 they have to go talk to a totally separate owner and buy the land and then put into a conservation

00:51:16.600 --> 00:51:22.600
 easement so what they would do is they would buy the units so that's how you would define it you

00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:29.960
 know certain units so they would buy a certain amount of units from that buying person and that

00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:35.560
 much land that buying person would have to put into a conservation easement that they can no longer

00:51:35.560 --> 00:51:39.560
 develop that land because they've sold the development but they are physically buying the

00:51:39.560 --> 00:51:45.960
 land from a they're so it's more like it's more like our our park dedication fund piece things

00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:49.880
 right where it's like you have to dedicate a certain amount of units some amount of acres per

00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:58.520
 unit you're developing or in lieu give us money somewhat similar but it's different because it's

00:51:58.520 --> 00:52:04.920
 dealing with the land use right so maybe another way to explain this would be is if i own a piece

00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:10.840
 of property and let's say i can put a thousand units on it given its existing zoning or if it

00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:15.880
 was out in the etj and i wanted to bring it in and the city's plan says residential you know this

00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:20.840
 density recommendation but bottom line i've figured out i could put a thousand units on the property

00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:27.800
 but i am open to conserving my property and putting a conservation easement on it because

00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.560
 let's say i've got some cool feature on my property right that would be really neat to

00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:37.560
 preserve but i know you tim you know neighbor down the street has a piece of property you're

00:52:37.560 --> 00:52:42.360
 wanting to develop and you would love to have additional units you'd love to have my thousand

00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:50.200
 units right then we would enter into an agreement i believe the city would be this is where i'm a

00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:54.120
 little unknown on this the city would probably be involved because there would probably be some sort

00:52:54.120 --> 00:52:58.440
 of development agreement especially if we're involving land in etj but there would be some

00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:04.120
 sort of agreement in addition to any conservation easement put on my property but that would speak

00:53:04.120 --> 00:53:09.960
 to you being able to receive my thousand units and being able to develop that on your property

00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:17.080
 but then protections being put in place that my property continues to have that conservation

00:53:17.080 --> 00:53:21.400
 easement and or whatever what other strategy might have been used to ensure that my property

00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:27.160
 doesn't develop transfer of development rights in my experience is not something that has been

00:53:27.160 --> 00:53:31.880
 necessarily readily used probably throughout texas most of my experiences predominantly in the north

00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:38.840
 dallas area so i can't speak to some other areas of the state i know in other parts of the country

00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:45.960
 this is a popular strategy that's used especially in much more urban densities shy might know some

00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:52.840
 other examples but this this is a a tool that's out there it's just not something that is probably

00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.800
 exercised regularly just because of the complexities but also needing to have finding

00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:02.440
 those two property owners that want to have that relationship because the other thing is if i'm

00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:06.840
 giving up some development rights on my property i'm probably looking to for you to pay me for those

00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:13.000
 as well so there's that component that comes into play okay so i understand it more like how i know

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:18.280
 how um ev regulation is going in some states like california for example you have to sell a certain

00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:23.320
 amount of units amount of you if you sell 100 units from a dealership in one month 50 of those

00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:29.080
 units have to be electric vehicles have to be evs if you don't have evs as a dealer you can buy ev

00:54:29.080 --> 00:54:33.400
 credits from another dealership so you can go buy those ev a lot of times they're buying it from

00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:36.520
 tesla and that's how tesla makes a bunch of money so it sounds like it's very similar to that where

00:54:36.520 --> 00:54:42.920
 it's like we have a commodity in the sense of units of conservation and i can buy and trade my

00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:48.120
 units of conservation in exchange for units of density back and forth to be able to fall into

00:54:48.120 --> 00:54:52.600
 regulations is that is that a good summation of understanding what that is i'm going to defer to

00:54:52.600 --> 00:54:57.480
 shy on this one does that the only the only only concern i have on that or understanding is that

00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:02.760
 how does that fall into zoning regulation you i won't use a thousand let's say there's 100 acres

00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:07.880
 and the zoning on that land is five units per acre so technically you could do 500 units

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:14.440
 but i want to do this exchange right i actually want to do 700 units you've got 200 units you're

00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:20.040
 willing to you know sell to me i buy it off of you in exchange for conservation units and cash

00:55:20.040 --> 00:55:25.480
 and that kind of stuff right i'm now going to be developing or have the right to develop them at a

00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:31.160
 seven unit per acre density even though my zoning is five units per acre i would anticipate that we

00:55:31.160 --> 00:55:35.240
 would change the zoning also to be able to address that but i'm going to defer to shy because she's

00:55:35.240 --> 00:55:40.760
 got more knowledge on this than i do so the way you would write the ordinance would be your base

00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:48.840
 zoning is this many units and if you were to be able because you're in a buying area you can max

00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:57.640
 buy up to these many units so you can go a low and a high and you say you can buy up to this much

00:55:57.640 --> 00:56:05.000
 and in the selling part the because they're selling it then we they have to put it into a conservation

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:12.200
 easement that much area so we would define how much land equals how many units okay that's all

00:56:12.200 --> 00:56:17.720
 questions i have thank you chair okay you're welcome anyone else okay

00:56:17.720 --> 00:56:26.920
 so those were our economic development strategies uh michael will you take on the environmental

00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:33.960
 strategies thank you good evening commissioner chair

00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:41.160
 so with environmental preservation strategies we have five specific strategies that we'll review

00:56:41.160 --> 00:56:50.360
 get that up there there we go and we're going to start with strategy 15 which is adopt regulations

00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:57.160
 that provide for appropriate vegetative riparian buffers along all major streams and tributaries

00:56:57.160 --> 00:57:04.680
 this section is a nice illustration of what a healthy riparian corridor looks like where you have

00:57:04.680 --> 00:57:13.960
 essentially a natural condition within the main channel and then that gradually transitions out

00:57:14.680 --> 00:57:23.160
 to developed areas in between the creek and the development areas you're providing what we call

00:57:23.160 --> 00:57:29.480
 green infrastructure nature-based infrastructure that mitigates any of the impacts of development

00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:39.320
 adjacent to the creeks and so when we look at the northeast area most of the creeks have established

00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:44.440
 flood plains that are mapped through fema but many of the tributaries have not been mapped as

00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:50.840
 fema flood plain but those are also significant in terms of riparian corridors so this applies

00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:54.440
 to all the tributaries not just the major streams

00:57:54.440 --> 00:58:09.960
 so linked to that is also tying it to prioritizing bike pedestrian and equestrian transportation

00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:15.560
 corridors along and within the riparian buffers to create a connected greenway system so it kind

00:58:15.560 --> 00:58:22.440
 of lumps in stacks the functionality of your riparian corridors where the riparian buffers

00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:28.360
 are established now within the city of denton as environmentally sensitive areas it really just

00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:36.040
 designates a 50 foot or 100 foot width away from the banks but it doesn't get into the details about

00:58:36.040 --> 00:58:43.400
 what goes in that buffer so this strategy would be developing a more detailed structure you can

00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:49.720
 think of it like a like a roadway section so what is in your riparian corridor section

00:58:49.720 --> 00:58:56.120
 and that could include both paved and unpaved pedestrian trails equestrian trails but it would

00:58:56.120 --> 00:59:01.560
 be linked up with this nature-based infrastructure that would mitigate any impacts within that

00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:06.680
 corridor so you can look at the trail as that's development so you want to mitigate the water

00:59:06.680 --> 00:59:16.680
 that's coming off that new hardscape within the buffer this creates a large network of greenways

00:59:16.680 --> 00:59:24.600
 throughout northeast denton and keep in mind that this wouldn't be your only trails depending on

00:59:24.600 --> 00:59:30.440
 what development comes in you would want pedestrian connectivity into your major greenway system

00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:35.480
 so obviously you would probably have one along clear creek which is the larger riparian corridor

00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:41.880
 but you would also want that pedestrian connectivity along the roadways and within

00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:46.280
 the public open spaces that connect you to the creek so you don't just have the hike and bike

00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:52.360
 corridors in the floodplain and in the riparian corridors that expand and extends out into the

00:59:52.360 --> 01:00:01.880
 development so adding on to that and this is something that could exist within the riparian

01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:09.640
 corridors but it would also exist in any proposed development and it's prioritizing what I call

01:00:09.640 --> 01:00:14.840
 shared use and multi-benefit nature-based infrastructure that would include best

01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:21.800
 management practices such as bioswales bioretention enhanced swells enhanced stormwater detention and

01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:27.640
 retention and that could be located within the riparian buffers and it could also be located

01:00:27.640 --> 01:00:32.760
 within open spaces if you have a development that is draining to that open space that isn't

01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:38.440
 necessarily in a creek corridor you would have a shared open space that also provides the stormwater

01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:45.320
 management infrastructure but it also allows you to begin to look at restorative practices to

01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:51.800
 restore riparian vegetation increase canopy to start looking at and we'll talk about this in the

01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:58.360
 next strategy restoring the tall grass prairie and protecting the tall grass prairie that that already

01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:05.560
 exists so when you think about stormwater management I know many of you have seen

01:01:05.560 --> 01:01:11.400
 developments that have like a detention pond that generally is going to be off to the back of a

01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:17.720
 property those don't provide a lot of stacked functionality it serves the purpose of managing

01:01:17.720 --> 01:01:22.840
 the flood volumes it serves some purposes of treating the water quality of the development

01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:28.680
 runoff but it's not necessarily somewhere that you want to go recreate around so this strategy

01:01:28.680 --> 01:01:34.600
 would help the city develop a very detailed

01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:42.120
 section of when you're looking at these stormwater management facilities and prioritizing making

01:01:42.120 --> 01:01:47.000
 sure that they provide multiple benefits and they're not just there to manage stormwater

01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:57.800
 and shy I think you wanted to talk a little bit about this yes so you can see on the right hand

01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:07.400
 side is a example of tall grass prairie restoration this is a development in next to denver colorado

01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:13.880
 it's called central park neighborhood and I toured it recently just last month actually

01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:20.440
 and this was something I looked at and I thought this is amazing as a development because what they

01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:28.840
 did was it was twofold it's full of parks it's this is what every house sees from their front

01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:36.440
 door every house in that neighborhood sees this main central park area which is a restored prairie

01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:43.240
 tall grass prairie development they do have other parks in the area but this is how they have

01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:52.920
 been able to develop housing development with this and the fact was because the developer

01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:59.000
 got to be a got to develop the density of and it's all single-family homes in that neighborhood

01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:05.240
 but they're not five acres so they're small next to each other but because he got that they were

01:03:05.240 --> 01:03:11.480
 able to spend the money in developing this park system and making sure that that feel of the

01:03:11.480 --> 01:03:19.240
 rural environment where every door looks out into this as well as they maintain they built it and

01:03:19.240 --> 01:03:25.240
 gave it to the city the main park but then eight other parks they maintain the development does

01:03:25.240 --> 01:03:32.040
 and this is the part that Michael was talking about was that multiple function

01:03:33.160 --> 01:03:42.440
 all their parks have stormwater detention retention elements in it but they are

01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:48.840
 recreation elements they don't look like just developing the water so i just wanted to say

01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:53.160
 anybody who has a chance please go take a look at that central park neighborhood

01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:57.480
 and how it's been developed i think brookfield developers did that one

01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:07.640
 i think shy and both the tall grass prairie areas there are existing areas where it's

01:04:07.640 --> 01:04:13.880
 fairly healthy within northeastern area and there are areas where it's remnant tall grass prairie

01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:21.480
 and it's been impacted by agricultural processes over over time so you have opportunities to be

01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:26.680
 restorative throughout the area and that would be tied to developer agreements exchange of development

01:04:26.680 --> 01:04:32.440
 rights and all that but it would be dictated by the city for example let's say you had a property

01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:40.360
 that had two acres of remnant tall grass prairie as identified in the esa's you could have requirements

01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:46.760
 for that development to either preserve that existing tall grass prairie or restore it the

01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:53.320
 idea is we're trying to increase the amount of tall grass prairie and then bundle it into shared

01:04:53.320 --> 01:05:04.920
 public open spaces the final strategy is related to the many existing stock ponds

01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:14.200
 throughout the area stock ponds were initially constructed to provide irrigation water water

01:05:14.200 --> 01:05:21.560
 for livestock etc but also to manage sediment flowing downstream getting into the river

01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:25.320
 getting into lake louisville etc

01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:34.840
 they're not designed to mitigate impacts of development so they would require updates

01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:44.520
 a good example to look at locally would be looking at the nrcs lakes in the city of mckinney

01:05:44.520 --> 01:05:51.000
 they created requirements for development to upgrade those to provide more benefits

01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:53.160
 and enhance water quality

01:05:53.160 --> 01:06:07.720
 open up for questions commissioner brett thank you chair several of these strategies as well

01:06:07.720 --> 01:06:12.600
 as the transfer development rights and that sort of thing to my mind presupposes that

01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:23.560
 we have some method or rubric system point system to identify what areas specifically are high

01:06:23.560 --> 01:06:29.000
 priority targets and which areas are not is that something that you see

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:35.400
 wrapped into the final plan and it would be incorporated within the given strategies or

01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:40.360
 is that something that that we need to have more focus on the strategy really directs for further

01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:46.120
 evaluation of all the natural systems so it would be like a stormwater master plan where

01:06:46.120 --> 01:06:49.640
 you look at all the creeks and the pipes and everything and you determine where do we have

01:06:49.640 --> 01:06:54.760
 issues where do we have flooding all that kind of thing this would be more it would be expanding

01:06:54.760 --> 01:06:59.640
 on the esa is that you you currently have and it's taking a more detailed look so you could look at

01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:05.400
 an area and you could say it let's say clear creek and there's you know erosion is natural

01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:10.280
 erosion is happening there in their areas where there are trees that are probably at risk so you

01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:16.040
 could evaluate that stream system on that property and determine you know what is the erosion

01:07:16.040 --> 01:07:21.400
 potential of it erosion hazard potential many cities across the metroplex have done this

01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:28.120
 fort worth for example they studied all their creeks citywide to determine what creeks are at

01:07:28.120 --> 01:07:36.360
 risk for erosion so going beyond just the flood portion of it so it's really getting a detailed

01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:42.760
 understanding of the health of all the systems within the northeast area okay and then prioritizing

01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:48.680
 those so you envision that would be part of the implementation phase of yeah a plan like this

01:07:48.680 --> 01:07:56.440
 yeah okay yeah and then secondly uh early this summer i think it was tim will hit me and remind

01:07:56.440 --> 01:08:03.160
 me um i think there was a supreme court case about wetland areas that are not wet all the time

01:08:03.160 --> 01:08:14.040
 and you can fill in the actual terms given that um do do we still have sufficient

01:08:14.040 --> 01:08:23.160
 protective capability on those smaller tributaries uh within this area so that you referred to the

01:08:23.160 --> 01:08:28.680
 waters of the u.s rule yes and that's something that's been in flux for the better part of a

01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:34.840
 decade if not longer um and there's still going to be back and forth about what constitutes a

01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:41.880
 high quality wetland is it connected to the main creek system is it not that probably isn't going

01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:45.880
 to change at the federal level for quite some time it's going to be in the courts most likely

01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:53.000
 already is actually but as part of the city of dentons development ordinance

01:08:54.200 --> 01:09:01.000
 the stormwater management plan for the city and stormwater regulations those could be you know

01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:05.880
 protected if they're identified you have to identify them first but then that would roll

01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:12.040
 into you know if you have what's considered let's say a medium quality wetland on your property

01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:16.440
 that you could potentially with the letter of the law the waters of the u.s you could

01:09:16.440 --> 01:09:23.080
 potentially fill that in as a developer the city could provide some incentives to protect that

01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:27.000
 and also require it as part of the development agreement okay thank you

01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:36.200
 commissioner colt thank you chair uh michael right yes okay great um could you go back to the

01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:47.880
 riparian buffer diagram please sir sorry i have a lot of slides to go through sorry about that

01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:55.000
 there we go that's better much easier

01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:04.520
 that one oh perfect thank you okay so it's clear creek that's clear creek

01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:14.280
 so it looks like we have 1575 95 feet of buffer on each side of the creek correct

01:10:15.080 --> 01:10:22.200
 that and this is free yeah but you can develop up to 90 feet away from that creek due to this diagram

01:10:22.200 --> 01:10:27.800
 correct it's it's going to be based on one it's going to be based on floodplain first floodplain

01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:33.640
 and floodway so in some cases the riparian buffer may extend out beyond what the floodplain is

01:10:33.640 --> 01:10:41.480
 in most cases it's probably going to be within the floodplain okay and the idea is that you know

01:10:41.480 --> 01:10:47.800
 that's providing you sufficient space we see the cowl on the right side there um just imagine that

01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:53.240
 being a development that you've got an adequate buffer between that development and the creek

01:10:53.240 --> 01:10:58.840
 system where you could also include your hike and bike trails or other public open spaces that are

01:10:58.840 --> 01:11:05.640
 activated um another way to look at buffers is that there's absolutely no build allowed at all

01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:13.000
 but that doesn't really provide any of the the opportunities to restore what may have already

01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:20.600
 been impacted in the buffer i mean we all have our different hot buttons on this on these very this

01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:29.080
 whole thing this is mine because i've spent a lot of time in clear creek fishing hunting camping

01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:36.680
 and i can tell you it is an i-35 for wildlife okay yep and 90 feet

01:11:36.680 --> 01:11:48.040
 that's not enough i i can promise you that and i i think that's part of that further evaluation

01:11:48.040 --> 01:11:55.320
 of all the creek systems uh from from a kind of a detailed detailed hydraulic and hydrologic

01:11:55.320 --> 01:12:02.520
 perspective which was not part of this um the 100 foot buffer and the 50 foot buffer

01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:09.400
 that's what's been established as the esas right now so that certainly could be further evaluated

01:12:09.400 --> 01:12:16.680
 i i with clear creek the floodplain is so wide and there's a lot of opportunities to bring back

01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:22.680
 riparian vegetation within that floodplain so you you could end up having a larger buffer

01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:27.800
 yeah i'm mostly worried about the impact of wildlife because there's such diverse wildlife

01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:34.360
 down there i mean you know what's going to happen with otters you know if they're only

01:12:34.360 --> 01:12:42.120
 it's just in in my mind it's not a big enough corridor for wildlife at all not even close

01:12:42.120 --> 01:12:50.280
 and that's my concern um well i assume that picture is an example right that's an example

01:12:50.280 --> 01:12:55.560
 it's not anything that's part of a plan or anything at this point yeah okay thank you all

01:12:55.560 --> 01:13:00.760
 appreciate it and further clarification the current esa is that 100 foot and the 50 foot

01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:07.480
 that's based on the amount of area draining to that particular point in the creek so as you get to

01:13:07.480 --> 01:13:12.280
 larger drainage area you're obviously going to have wider floodplains so that buffer becomes

01:13:12.280 --> 01:13:19.080
 larger uh and again right now that buffer is just essentially a no touch uh so this strategy that

01:13:19.080 --> 01:13:25.160
 we talked about would kind of advance that a little bit and get a little more uh opportunity

01:13:25.160 --> 01:13:30.760
 out of the buffer so you get the water quality benefits you maintaining that habitat connectivity

01:13:30.760 --> 01:13:32.920
 i think is going to be super important as well

01:13:37.160 --> 01:13:53.240
 anybody else okay thank you so we have two more strategies um we've got two historic

01:13:53.240 --> 01:13:59.400
 preservation strategies the first is to conduct a historic resource survey and seek the historic

01:13:59.400 --> 01:14:07.000
 designation of vital historic assets in the area so we heard from the people that there are a lot

01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:16.040
 of historic assets here culturally historic assets but whatever it is right now there is no

01:14:16.040 --> 01:14:22.680
 designation i will put in a plug for this uh strategy for the staff is you only have one

01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:29.080
 historic preservation officer in this city and to do something like this and to have a historic

01:14:29.080 --> 01:14:38.120
 designation program and manage your assets you will need more staff cameron cannot do this alone so

01:14:38.120 --> 01:14:46.520
 just putting it out there for the budget time second strategy is to seek cultural landscape status

01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:56.600
 for heartley airfield this is a different kind of designation heartley airfield seems to be

01:14:56.600 --> 01:15:01.640
 uh really very well loved in the area thought of it's got historic

01:15:01.640 --> 01:15:12.760
 even if it's not a building but it's got historic aspects to it that the people in the community

01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:20.120
 really love and so the one way to preserve this would be to seek that cultural landscape status

01:15:20.120 --> 01:15:27.640
 if you do there is some you can also get grants for it so one thing to keep in mind is that heartley

01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:34.520
 field is on private property owned by private individuals so those funds might be used to

01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:41.080
 incentivize to for them to seek this cultural landscape status but you would have to have the

01:15:41.080 --> 01:15:48.840
 property owners consent to do anything on their property and so but that's something we should

01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:55.640
 look for similar to you know do we want to go after development agreements in the etj so someone

01:15:55.640 --> 01:16:04.440
 has to take uh take that step who would be the person or the entity to do it similar to that

01:16:04.440 --> 01:16:10.200
 some entity has to take on negotiating with the property owner or giving them some incentives to

01:16:10.200 --> 01:16:17.160
 go seek this cultural landscape status but that's one way to preserve this historic asset in the area

01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:27.960
 so with that any other questions questions are on those last two strategies

01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:30.440
 okay

01:16:30.440 --> 01:16:43.560
 so direction and discussion um we are hoping to get some and i'll just make it this way

01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:56.840
 so i can do it in real time you put sorry commissioner smith thank you uh you put that

01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:01.320
 in like that's that's that's strategy one strategy two strategy you put them in order

01:17:01.320 --> 01:17:05.000
 yes okay that's just i was about to say you're making this hard i mean i gotta go back and look

01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:08.520
 at all the names of the strategies rather than just saying strategy one strategy two strategy three

01:17:12.200 --> 01:17:19.880
 i uh the only i think the easier uh i don't chair i don't know how you want to do this i've got just

01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:24.040
 like random stuff like strategy five okay let's not let's not do that that would be way too

01:17:24.040 --> 01:17:31.000
 confusing so i assume you've got these in order yes yeah so i think what we need to do is go

01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:36.120
 through them in order and we can get everybody's feedback if you have it if you don't have it that's

01:17:36.120 --> 01:17:41.080
 fine too um and then we'll go from there if you can keep your notes in order that way does that work

01:17:41.080 --> 01:17:47.640
 i guess like no comment does it keep well yeah or you can say keep yeah does that work shai does

01:17:47.640 --> 01:17:57.240
 that work for you yes okay okay so strategy one is uh conservation development patterns uh to

01:17:57.240 --> 01:18:01.720
 promote that for all future residential developments in the northeastern area

01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:10.920
 commissioner puett thank you chair um so i think this is crucial um you know our our purview based

01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:23.960
 on um staff's direction that you know council gave direction for for this basically amount of

01:18:23.960 --> 01:18:31.080
 homes up here right the the biggest change to me is that we've got about a thousand acres

01:18:31.080 --> 01:18:37.720
 that's re-identified as uh transition residential so that's about four thousand or sorry three

01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:44.840
 thousand homes um and and so the the question then is how do you develop those in a manner that

01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:51.800
 that achieves the other goals of this plan that are are very laudable um

01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:59.480
 i'm very concerned about the 30 number that it was in the slide maybe it got taken out in a

01:19:00.200 --> 01:19:06.600
 in an amendment i'm i didn't catch it as we were reading um i think that's far too low uh you know

01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:12.680
 as as we saw pictures of the example um development colorado i guarantee you they

01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:19.960
 were not at 30 percent they had to be probably 60 70 80 percent in order to get all the homes

01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:30.040
 fronting a place like that um so so my direction is to modify this up way up and the only

01:19:30.040 --> 01:19:38.120
 thing reason we started at 30 was to keep the density lower so the more you so base densities

01:19:38.120 --> 01:19:44.520
 three units per acre right so the more you want open space the higher you have to give the density

01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:51.800
 absolutely that's a trade-off i'll just say that all of all of the um examples of pds that we've

01:19:51.800 --> 01:20:00.760
 seen come in that used the provision in our code to do this have used it to basically preserve areas

01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:05.720
 that were already floodplain which i i understand that's that would be tweaked here so that it didn't

01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:13.800
 apply um and and lot sizes went from 6000 square feet to 5600 square feet and it was still basically

01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:19.000
 a subdivision and i don't think that's what anybody wants up there so i think that the

01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:22.600
 percentage needs to be considerably higher than 30 in order to achieve something that's

01:20:22.600 --> 01:20:31.320
 functionally unique so let me ask you this then but are you in agreement though with the strategy

01:20:31.320 --> 01:20:38.680
 we just need to look at refining the the amount of land set aside for preservation yeah and i just

01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:47.160
 think finding the right target and maybe a minimum is crucial to making sure that the implementation

01:20:47.160 --> 01:20:57.080
 is as the pretty pictures will portend and we can also require not to have it like a typical

01:20:57.080 --> 01:21:02.920
 subdivision we can put some design criteria in addition for that higher density

01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:11.720
 okay anyone else on strategy one

01:21:14.520 --> 01:21:17.400
 are we good to ask for that modification

01:21:17.400 --> 01:21:20.920
 okay let's move on

01:21:20.920 --> 01:21:31.320
 so second was to scale from higher density towards the freeways and

01:21:31.320 --> 01:21:34.920
 going towards lower density to the center of the area

01:21:39.240 --> 01:21:48.280
 yep uh third was to allow promote neighborhood level commercial development at specific

01:21:48.280 --> 01:21:55.880
 nodes that um and to allow that within residential transition or as a transition between rural

01:21:55.880 --> 01:22:04.840
 residential and okay yeah i think my only comment here as it relates to strategy three it also

01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:14.120
 relates to um strategy 13 um the whole gateway north thing to me is i have a big question mark

01:22:14.120 --> 01:22:19.640
 with that we have no idea what that looks like we don't even have an inner loop let alone to

01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:27.640
 an outer loop i mean so designating that as this north gateway with this commercial i'm really

01:22:28.600 --> 01:22:35.160
 just very apprehensive to do that at this point i just think it is an unknown and i know that

01:22:35.160 --> 01:22:42.040
 this plan is going to need to be looked at again i mean if it does get done and it does

01:22:42.040 --> 01:22:45.800
 get implemented i mean five years from now we're going to have to look at it again

01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:53.240
 because things will have happened and we will need to tweak things and to me to to designate

01:22:53.240 --> 01:23:03.480
 that north part as as it is presented um i just i would leave that honestly as a as a big question

01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:13.320
 mark would you be okay if we said if outer loop at this level oh tina's gonna answer that well

01:23:13.320 --> 01:23:18.040
 i was just saying i mean to that point you're right um this is something that we're gonna have

01:23:18.040 --> 01:23:22.600
 to monitor and update with the comprehensive plan so you know we're we're trying to

01:23:23.240 --> 01:23:28.040
 plan for growth and development based upon the known factors that we have today we're working

01:23:28.040 --> 01:23:34.040
 diligently with textile on the outer loop um you know it may be 20 years out when that thing is

01:23:34.040 --> 01:23:39.000
 built but we know we're planning for it and so we're trying to be smart in our land planning

01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:44.440
 if that project for whatever reason goes away then we would be revisiting the land use designations

01:23:44.440 --> 01:23:49.000
 that are out in this area so you know just shy's point into your point this will be something that

01:23:49.000 --> 01:23:54.200
 we'll have to monitor and we'll have to update our comprehensive plan every five to ten years to make

01:23:54.200 --> 01:24:00.280
 sure everything within the plan is still relevant true but that's why i don't want to designate it

01:24:00.280 --> 01:24:06.760
 now the way it is in this plan because it's going to be way harder to go backwards so if we if we

01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:11.800
 say hey this northern area we've got it we've got this section set up for this commercial development

01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:16.680
 whether the outer loop happens or i don't know if it's going to happen but i know that if it's

01:24:16.680 --> 01:24:22.360
 designated on this plan this plan is going to keep getting referred to just like our comprehensive

01:24:22.360 --> 01:24:27.640
 plan gets referred to and it's going to say well this area they all looked at this back in 2023

01:24:27.640 --> 01:24:33.320
 and they said this area is supposed to be commercial so it's just harder to go backwards

01:24:33.320 --> 01:24:37.160
 and suddenly say well it shouldn't be developed as commercial it should be

01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:46.520
 conserved so that's why i think it needs to be left out honestly because you know and not i

01:24:46.520 --> 01:24:51.480
 understand what you're saying but it's it's it's the area that we're dealing with right now

01:24:51.480 --> 01:24:59.080
 and and yes planning is is is a great idea and if we were inside the loop and and we had this

01:24:59.080 --> 01:25:05.000
 piece that was undeveloped we know that's coming it's such a question mark up there and it's it

01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:10.440
 i i don't even know how many of us will be on this planet when that actually happens

01:25:10.440 --> 01:25:15.320
 i mean we can't again we can't even get the loop finished and i lived here for 30 years

01:25:15.320 --> 01:25:22.600
 well and keep in mind so this is on the scenario two plan that council gave us direction to move

01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:30.840
 forward with so the the land use designation has our we've already been given that direction so

01:25:30.840 --> 01:25:37.400
 then we're looking at okay do these strategies make sense for implementing the plan so like this

01:25:37.400 --> 01:25:43.480
 strategy number three if you recall was back more towards the discussion on the rural village concept

01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:49.880
 and being able to apply that also within residential transition area in locations

01:25:49.880 --> 01:25:55.400
 where it's appropriate to do so so i understand your concern and where you're coming from but

01:25:56.440 --> 01:26:02.120
 that part of this project is not debatable i would say at this time because of the direction that

01:26:02.120 --> 01:26:06.600
 council had given us that that's on the the scenario i'm not debating the strategy i'm

01:26:06.600 --> 01:26:15.000
 debating that particular designation in this part of the the area period i'm not so no i don't think

01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:19.880
 it goes against council at all i think that and and they can they're obviously in the end going to do

01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:26.360
 what it is i'm giving my opinion as i see it in looking at what is presented in front of us today

01:26:26.600 --> 01:26:33.880
 um and i'm sorry i just i didn't mean to cut you but i actually have a solution to it the one

01:26:33.880 --> 01:26:41.480
 thing i will say is um we had the same issue in burleson uh many years ago when 121 was coming

01:26:41.480 --> 01:26:47.640
 through we did not want and we had the same conversation didn't want to designate it before

01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:55.320
 it came well right before it came people put in these really bad looking um storage unit kind of

01:26:55.320 --> 01:27:02.600
 things it was in the etj was uh some was in the city limits but then the etj built the storage

01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:09.000
 unit so the pnz and council could say nothing to the gentleman right next door and then came the

01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:16.920
 fancy looking 121 and today you will see the gateway into burleson off of 121 is this really

01:27:16.920 --> 01:27:25.400
 bad looking outdoors those storage climate control storage unit places but i understand your issue too

01:27:25.400 --> 01:27:34.600
 one thing we can do in the plan is to say until the loop is set this will be as is preservation

01:27:34.600 --> 01:27:42.840
 area and if that outer loop is uh whenever the outer loop alignment is set this is what it will

01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:48.840
 be when the alignment happens and that way we're covered if it doesn't happen for 20 years nothing

01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:55.640
 needs to change if it does come people know what they can build there you know another thing we

01:27:55.640 --> 01:28:01.400
 can also add as a strategy is something with respect of trying to minimize leapfrog development

01:28:01.400 --> 01:28:07.560
 because in in all reality there are other issues that are going to come into play such as availability

01:28:07.560 --> 01:28:13.880
 of utilities to be able to serve that area in in that that's going to be the greater cause i mean

01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:18.840
 we we've had conversations with property owners between the loop and out there and you know they're

01:28:18.840 --> 01:28:24.920
 looking for financial support from the city we had a property much farther north large track that

01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:30.440
 was looking for a potential pit or a tiff district in that area and the city was not interested in

01:28:30.440 --> 01:28:34.040
 supporting that so this i think there are other things that are going to be able to control your

01:28:34.040 --> 01:28:40.920
 concern i like shy suggestion that until the outer loop is more reaffirmed that this area would

01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:45.160
 continue in a preservation status let me get other this is just my opinion anyway let me just get

01:28:45.160 --> 01:28:50.200
 other commissioners involved in this commissioner cole thank you chair um i think the it's more

01:28:50.200 --> 01:28:55.560
 imminent than we think because collin county's already complete finished segments of the outer

01:28:55.560 --> 01:29:06.840
 loop already so i think it's closer than you know is is it's imminent and when you have that much

01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:11.560
 of it done in collin county it's just a matter of time i don't think it's that far off

01:29:11.560 --> 01:29:19.240
 because i do know they're negotiating right now with landowners on the west side of town

01:29:20.120 --> 01:29:27.000
 for the loop so it's it's more imminent and i think is being portrayed right and i might add

01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:34.520
 that the mpo also has funding associated for the outer loop and dentin so and you were mentioning

01:29:34.520 --> 01:29:40.360
 428 there's no funding associated 428 improvements for relative this glad to know

01:29:40.360 --> 01:29:49.080
 commissioner smith i'll be quick i'd rather have a vision for we want to see there than not have

01:29:49.080 --> 01:29:53.480
 a vision for it at all i like the idea of designating as conservation till a certain

01:29:53.480 --> 01:29:58.440
 point in time i even have the idea of saying it's going to be this vision and for the next

01:29:58.440 --> 01:30:02.360
 certain amount of years until this happens i'm cool with that for that modification i think that

01:30:02.360 --> 01:30:07.560
 that your modification recommendation makes sense we shouldn't just 100 lock down something but i

01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:13.720
 think having no vision for the area for that specific area is more dangerous than than not

01:30:13.720 --> 01:30:19.800
 having it so um or then having it yeah i think i would be okay with it if it was attached to

01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:28.600
 actual road development out there uh and not have it be part of it not connected so not attached to

01:30:28.600 --> 01:30:33.960
 that because again then we develop something out there and we just we we're just kind of we're

01:30:33.960 --> 01:30:40.760
 doing this and that's not what to me that's not what this should be okay anybody else commission

01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:47.880
 for it thank you yeah i'll just say i'm no fan of text dot planning our land use for us

01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:55.960
 and that's what it looks like um you know at the same time i i'm pessimistic maybe five percent

01:30:55.960 --> 01:31:02.280
 chance that if we say it's going to be conserved and then we want it to be this vision that that

01:31:02.280 --> 01:31:11.800
 would actually happen um but by setting something forward there's a five percent chance instead of

01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:20.520
 a zero percent chance so i'm okay with it commissioner smith do you want to run through

01:31:20.520 --> 01:31:30.280
 all your thoughts um no um yeah i think anything else here i have um i can email okay yeah i think

01:31:30.280 --> 01:31:39.080
 we'll be okay um okay so we are on so that's two are we good anybody else i'm sorry three yes

01:31:39.080 --> 01:31:48.440
 yes so do we add that little yes that modification yeah okay i got so we are on

01:31:48.440 --> 01:31:58.280
 uh number four create design standards to enhance uh for future developments uh to enhance rural

01:31:58.280 --> 01:32:07.720
 character of the area add design standards in northeast and specific to the area okay yes

01:32:07.720 --> 01:32:15.720
 and then development agreements number five i'd like to i'd like to see if we can make a

01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:21.560
 modification just to have some sort of notification to landowners on development agreements um in that

01:32:21.560 --> 01:32:27.000
 plan having something that's included within there that says in this strategy um maybe notifying land

01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:31.880
 owners and letting them know hey this is in the plan's been approved it's been done if you are

01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:35.800
 wanting to do a development agreement this is what development agreement is this is how you should

01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:40.840
 start that conversation uh really a better way to hear my recommendation for a modification is to

01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:49.080
 include a marketing plan so in the action steps for this will include uh send out a notification

01:32:49.080 --> 01:32:58.280
 to invite property owners cool that's all i got commissioner hole i want to follow up

01:32:58.280 --> 01:33:03.320
 with commissioner smith i i agree totally with that and i'd like to see it i retract my statement

01:33:03.320 --> 01:33:12.360
 okay we're good okay let's go to six

01:33:16.680 --> 01:33:19.240
 sorry

01:33:19.240 --> 01:33:28.680
 infrastructure complete streets and uh context-sensitive design for streets

01:33:28.680 --> 01:33:37.400
 so multimodal street design so to basically to change your thoroughfare plan to have

01:33:37.400 --> 01:33:45.480
 different cross-sections so six and seven are actually one uh strategy saying yes to six and

01:33:45.480 --> 01:33:53.160
 no to seven won't work right we have to say yes to both yeah commissioner perot yeah i'll just say

01:33:53.160 --> 01:34:01.320
 in sorry i'm eight keep going okay we're good with six and seven okay

01:34:01.320 --> 01:34:05.320
 well let's let's go to eight

01:34:05.320 --> 01:34:11.800
 eight was that's the trails yeah trails

01:34:16.360 --> 01:34:20.200
 wait strategy eight is develop a network trail that connects residential commercial

01:34:20.200 --> 01:34:22.760
 open spaces form an active transportation network

01:34:22.760 --> 01:34:31.160
 everybody everyone's good anything on that okay and then nine dcta yeah

01:34:31.160 --> 01:34:42.040
 yeah okay do we want to put it as long-term uh goal

01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:50.200
 in the action plan i i sorry go ahead commissioner go ahead i completely trust staff on how to

01:34:50.200 --> 01:34:56.120
 prioritize these things i just don't want people to get bogged down in action items

01:34:56.120 --> 01:35:02.760
 and that keep us from doing what staff knows is highest priority for the whole city from a transit

01:35:02.760 --> 01:35:09.320
 perspective so i'm okay with it yeah i mean i agree strategy nine to me it's certainly low priority

01:35:09.320 --> 01:35:16.120
 in this plan um i think i mean we we have we need so much more improvement within this

01:35:16.120 --> 01:35:23.720
 the loop of the city with when it comes to dcta that i don't i don't even see this happening in

01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:31.480
 any kind of near future so it just seems very very low priority and and we usually try to put it

01:35:31.480 --> 01:35:37.160
 because it's a 20-year plan just in case suddenly somebody has money and something happens then we

01:35:37.160 --> 01:35:43.720
 want to be able to grab it and say it was in the plan yeah sure and then this one is the mobility

01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:49.160
 plan the thoroughfare plan where we recommended different roadways the connectivity if you all

01:35:49.160 --> 01:35:55.400
 remember we will be putting in there again that it will go with the development and not

01:35:58.040 --> 01:36:09.320
 be built thank you chairs so my brief comment on this nine and ten i think um i understand and i

01:36:09.320 --> 01:36:16.920
 support both of them i get really scared when i see a four lane divided highway in the slides

01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:24.200
 i would just ask that as we go through the implementation of this we take a hard look at

01:36:25.080 --> 01:36:35.080
 you know it's a rural area if it's 600 cars per day we don't need a four lane road so and

01:36:35.080 --> 01:36:39.640
 we monitor that as part of our development projects right and we recognize that roads are

01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:47.000
 maybe in an interim state until they are in their full built-out condition i mean we do that today

01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:56.920
 as we're working on projects yeah so i mean i yeah enough said okay

01:36:56.920 --> 01:37:10.440
 okay we are on uh 12 i think i'm sorry 11 right yes 11 11 economic development

01:37:11.240 --> 01:37:17.880
 for small business unique that's a good strategy to keep for sure everyone

01:37:17.880 --> 01:37:27.320
 next is uh the open space conservation and management transfer of development rights

01:37:27.320 --> 01:37:35.240
 commissioner smith i'm a big hard no on this one as of right now um i just and i know this

01:37:35.240 --> 01:37:43.000
 is a 30 000 foot level view plan and this is a 30 000 foot level idea um maybe i shouldn't call it

01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:49.800
 an absolute remove but i i don't know how to modify it i don't know how to make a recommendation for

01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:55.160
 a modification i feel like it's the biggest issue for me is not about the idea of being able to

01:37:55.160 --> 01:38:00.920
 exchange units in exchange for density and conservation and encourage conservation through

01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:06.040
 economic development and i'm not a curmudgeon for a change i understand other states and other areas

01:38:06.040 --> 01:38:10.920
 probably do this and it's probably a well-developed plan elsewhere somewhere in the country it just

01:38:10.920 --> 01:38:21.160
 feels to me like there is too much risk to allowing flexibility in density on zoning which i think city

01:38:21.160 --> 01:38:26.120
 staff knows i'm a big huge proponent for flexibility and development code and flexibility in a lot of

01:38:26.120 --> 01:38:33.560
 areas but if it's approved as a base zoning of zone four of r4 but because of this unit plan idea

01:38:33.560 --> 01:38:39.080
 we can exchange it in somehow some way neighborhood looks up and it's really a density of you know not

01:38:39.080 --> 01:38:44.680
 even r7 it's a density of five or six it's like how did that happen oh this really complicated

01:38:44.680 --> 01:38:49.560
 indexing method that we used for exchange of conservation land for a piece of property you

01:38:49.560 --> 01:38:54.760
 can't see that's three miles behind us that you don't understand oh but i know how that happened

01:38:54.760 --> 01:38:59.720
 it seems too too complicated there's probably a simpler more clearly defined way in which we can

01:38:59.720 --> 01:39:05.080
 encourage conservation through economic development but i don't think this this is it yeah and i'm

01:39:05.080 --> 01:39:11.480
 gonna piggyback on that i'm a hard no on that too because i think it could absolutely invite

01:39:11.480 --> 01:39:18.440
 density to where it's unwanted i mean it's like it's supposed to be this but oh well with this

01:39:18.440 --> 01:39:25.320
 little transfer of stuff and oh now suddenly this one development is way bigger than anyone

01:39:25.320 --> 01:39:35.800
 anticipated and and it's from how i understand it and see it right now i see no reason for it

01:39:35.800 --> 01:39:44.600
 to be here other than to play games and shenanigans with with density that is zoned a certain way and

01:39:44.600 --> 01:39:51.400
 it's gonna be something else commissioner i'm gonna know on that as well yeah if if maybe it

01:39:51.400 --> 01:39:59.160
 could be brought forward to where it can be to where are the fears are are are not there but i

01:39:59.160 --> 01:40:05.240
 i don't i don't see it as being or to make it positive i mean as it's as it's currently sorry

01:40:05.240 --> 01:40:12.360
 as it's currently lined out it's it is general so i guess i i i get that because as programs and

01:40:12.360 --> 01:40:16.040
 policies can be created off our landlords have said not develop their property in return checked

01:40:16.040 --> 01:40:23.720
 up in spaces so it is vague um but it it once again i think there's maybe just a different way

01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:29.560
 in which that can be that can be reworded and re-revisioned to where it it isn't it is something

01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:37.800
 totally different than strategy 11 or totally different than even strategy 13 which both are

01:40:38.360 --> 01:40:46.120
 trying to address the same piece but this opens up some sort of as a result selling landowners can

01:40:46.120 --> 01:40:50.040
 generate income and keep partial parcels of land intact to possibly reduce the property tax without

01:40:50.040 --> 01:40:54.120
 developing their property it just it seems like it's this money-making strategy it's inside of

01:40:54.120 --> 01:40:58.760
 there that i don't think it's a shell game that needs to be included in the plan agreed are you

01:40:58.760 --> 01:41:06.440
 sorry i was gonna ask are you all uh only against if the density selling area and the buying area

01:41:06.440 --> 01:41:12.360
 was in northeast or are you okay with a northeast being the selling area and somewhere else in the

01:41:12.360 --> 01:41:20.520
 city being the buying area the thing is we want to make sure the property owners in northeast

01:41:20.520 --> 01:41:27.640
 can actually not say you're taking their property by not letting them develop they can at least use

01:41:27.640 --> 01:41:32.440
 their property make money off of their property but not develop their property that's the idea

01:41:33.160 --> 01:41:37.480
 yeah i understand the idea and i think i think part of that is there's a there's a there's a

01:41:37.480 --> 01:41:42.600
 certain flexibility that results in a finality that i don't agree with either that hey with

01:41:42.600 --> 01:41:46.680
 flexibility for current landowner to not develop this and turn it into a conservation easement

01:41:46.680 --> 01:41:53.320
 okay that's cool for now and it's cool for the next 20 years but those conservation easements are

01:41:53.320 --> 01:41:58.600
 forever they're for forever and i can remember if they were 100 they're 100 years or they're

01:41:58.600 --> 01:42:03.480
 perpetual it's like forever they're perpetual then i mean we are we're taking a flexibility for an

01:42:03.480 --> 01:42:08.840
 idea being thrown around now that locks it up for forever yeah and i'm not saying that we want to

01:42:08.840 --> 01:42:15.240
 turn that area into concrete city but i also don't want to speak for dentin 100 years from now

01:42:15.240 --> 01:42:21.080
 and who knows what's going to be needed at that time it just it's it's flexibility leading to

01:42:21.080 --> 01:42:26.280
 finality that scares me within that well and i think and that's fine and this is why we wanted

01:42:26.280 --> 01:42:32.600
 your feedback so i mean if the if the consensus of the group is to exclude especially the transfer

01:42:32.600 --> 01:42:41.000
 development rights and in the buying and selling we can still work towards trying to create policies

01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:47.560
 that incur the open space conservation and management i was looking back to our strategies

01:42:47.560 --> 01:42:52.440
 under the land development management so i think we can we can work to refine those other strategies

01:42:52.440 --> 01:42:59.560
 under the the land development but um but not invest time and effort on this transfer development

01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:05.000
 rights and buying and selling because it is complex right and and to your point um it

01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:12.040
 if if we're struggling with it here and and how we might navigate through it then i can understand

01:43:12.040 --> 01:43:16.520
 members of the public may also um to your point and concern so that that's okay and that's why

01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:20.120
 we want to have this conversation is to find out where your concerns lie so i'm gonna invite

01:43:20.120 --> 01:43:23.800
 commissioner pruett in because i know he's got a differing opinion i think thank you chair

01:43:23.800 --> 01:43:33.400
 you know i i'm just trying to imagine the future here um and i want to make sure we're not throwing

01:43:33.400 --> 01:43:38.040
 the baby out with the bath water to to borrow an analogy that's probably not quite right um

01:43:38.040 --> 01:43:47.800
 the part of me that loves simplicity and clarity is is 100 aligned with the three of you however

01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:57.160
 this is not a simple area the thing i worry about without some sort of tool like this maybe there

01:43:57.160 --> 01:44:05.480
 are other options that would be more amenable um is that then you see the type of piecemeal

01:44:05.480 --> 01:44:11.560
 development that we've seen in other areas of the city just because so and so did wanted to develop

01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:19.080
 their property and a different person did not um and and by not having some sort of tool like this

01:44:19.080 --> 01:44:27.160
 i worry that the the in in the presentation we were talking about prioritization and and

01:44:27.160 --> 01:44:35.400
 metrics of areas that we want to be preserved i could just see how easily this ends up being

01:44:35.400 --> 01:44:40.600
 a an area where we preserve places by accident just because of where the borders are drawn

01:44:40.600 --> 01:44:46.360
 between different landowners as opposed to preserving areas that are valuable to preserve

01:44:46.920 --> 01:44:53.400
 so i don't know if there's a different tool or not but there's got to be something that gets us

01:44:53.400 --> 01:45:02.440
 away from the lines on the platting map and toward the areas for ecological and and historical and

01:45:02.440 --> 01:45:09.080
 all the other reasons that the whole rest of the draft talks about says here's the areas we want

01:45:09.080 --> 01:45:17.320
 to focus and if you don't have a transfer flexible piece then there's no way to kind of you know

01:45:17.320 --> 01:45:27.160
 manage that preservation on a different owner's piece of land right yeah understood and yeah point

01:45:27.160 --> 01:45:31.800
 well taken i just i wonder if there's a different way to incentivize conservation versus

01:45:33.560 --> 01:45:41.080
 a slippery slope of possibly especially in the same area of of getting just way higher density

01:45:41.080 --> 01:45:45.960
 by doing this and it's this kind of smoke and mirrors kind of thing that just doesn't feel right

01:45:45.960 --> 01:45:50.680
 so i will say that during the presentation we heard that most of the time when something like

01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:59.960
 this is codified it's codified by a base uh you know um development right of of a gross density

01:45:59.960 --> 01:46:05.480
 with a cap of here's how much you can get above that through this mechanism so it's not

01:46:05.480 --> 01:46:14.280
 all bars loose we have an opportunity sorry yeah yes just to the point that what was heard very

01:46:14.280 --> 01:46:19.880
 clearly for me is the majority doesn't want this to be included to answer your specific question

01:46:19.880 --> 01:46:25.400
 that yes there are other tools and vehicles that we can achieve the same thing and it doesn't mean

01:46:25.400 --> 01:46:31.640
 that um it's dead because we kill it right here right now but the detail isn't there so for us

01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:36.600
 just to to take that and say okay we're going to remove this doesn't mean that it doesn't come back

01:46:36.600 --> 01:46:42.920
 in some other form or fashion when we can distill a little better so okay thank you commissioner

01:46:42.920 --> 01:46:48.840
 mcdave thank you chair yeah i was gonna say i'm also a no on this for the simple fact that it is

01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:57.160
 complicated but to uh piggyback on what tina said somewhere in the future if you get the wording

01:46:57.160 --> 01:47:03.960
 so it's not only understandable by the the property owner but by joe public

01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:10.520
 because if this happens and they go okay we have no idea you know explain it to us you want to make

01:47:10.520 --> 01:47:16.760
 everyone not just the property owners and and the buyer you want to make the whole city aware of how

01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:23.400
 this how this works instead of just leaving it to the property owners too so that's why right now

01:47:23.400 --> 01:47:29.080
 in a few years you know you reword it and make it easier to understand because that was a very

01:47:29.080 --> 01:47:37.480
 complicated uh strategy there so at the right now i i'm a no on this one and you do have to study it

01:47:37.480 --> 01:47:43.400
 in detail because somebody in the city is going to be upset even if you say oh we're going to put

01:47:43.400 --> 01:47:50.280
 apartments or higher density a long loop 288 the people that have homes backing up to 288 are not

01:47:50.280 --> 01:47:56.280
 going to like it so you have to really study where and how much density you're going to put it nobody

01:47:56.280 --> 01:48:04.040
 is going to be happy with it so you're right somebody's going to be upset that's my life

01:48:04.040 --> 01:48:12.200
 shall we go so we'll remove this transfer of development rights there were some other things

01:48:12.200 --> 01:48:20.120
 like conservation district will keep and then um incentives to ensure design standards are met by

01:48:20.120 --> 01:48:30.200
 character area is that something we are good with and then how about recruiting those uh

01:48:30.840 --> 01:48:43.320
 nomadic workforce do we want to do that now commissioner cole okay yeah okay oh

01:48:43.320 --> 01:48:51.320
 and i think i'm gonna pause you right there um and i know we've got a few more strategies that

01:48:51.320 --> 01:48:58.360
 that took us through 14 i think yes yep so i'm gonna pause i'm going to uh due to a prior

01:48:58.360 --> 01:49:03.160
 commitment i have to buy out about out of the meeting commissioner vice chair smith is going

01:49:03.160 --> 01:49:12.680
 to take over and run the meeting so we will um adjourn at 557 p.m and do you all want to

01:49:12.680 --> 01:49:19.320
 come right back or maybe get your food or whatever you decide do we have food there is oh okay yeah

01:49:19.320 --> 01:49:22.840
 why don't you all get your food and then you can reset yeah that works okay five minutes let's

01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:34.200
 adjourn at 558 p.m thank you very much for the recess and welcome back to the planning and zoning

01:49:34.200 --> 01:49:39.960
 special call work session i will re-convene our meeting at 605 and continue with presentation

01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:48.600
 from our consultant shy we are on strategy 15 good evening everyone again um starting strategy

01:49:48.600 --> 01:49:56.200
 15 environmental preservation so adopt regulations that provide for appropriate vegetative riparian

01:49:56.200 --> 01:50:03.400
 buffers along all major streams and tributaries i just want to point we said along all michael had

01:50:03.400 --> 01:50:09.960
 mentioned that every one of them does not have a floodplain studied floodplain but we're recommending

01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:12.680
 we do vegetative buffers along all

01:50:16.040 --> 01:50:19.240
 all right looks like we're all good to keep it

01:50:19.240 --> 01:50:27.640
 uh strategy 16 uh creating an active uh bike and pedestrian transportation corridors

01:50:27.640 --> 01:50:32.680
 within the riparian buffers right now nothing's allowed in it correct

01:50:36.600 --> 01:50:46.200
 commissioner prudit sorry i on the previous one um given the direction of the city in a city-wide

01:50:46.200 --> 01:50:51.080
 perspective and the discussion that we had earlier about habitats and that sort of thing maybe we

01:50:51.080 --> 01:51:00.360
 want to modify that to include um habitat widths based on the the local area in addition to just

01:51:00.360 --> 01:51:05.800
 the riparian distances for the flora and fauna or for the fauna in addition to the flora does

01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:10.840
 that make sense well and i was going to ask would that be more of an action item in support of this

01:51:10.840 --> 01:51:16.040
 strategy shy or would that be something that would be appropriate to include in the wording of this

01:51:16.040 --> 01:51:23.560
 strategy or michael do you mean like a like a new strategy in addition no i was talking about so um

01:51:23.560 --> 01:51:29.400
 the these strategies that have been identified they will have supporting action items to implement

01:51:29.400 --> 01:51:34.840
 the strategy so um so that's why i was asking i didn't know if that would be what your suggestion

01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:38.680
 especially taking into consideration the widths of these riparian buffers and depending upon the

01:51:38.680 --> 01:51:45.880
 condition of each of the creeks or streams um an action item would be to um you know study those

01:51:45.880 --> 01:51:51.080
 streams and evaluate the appropriate riparian buffer widths so that the action item becomes

01:51:51.080 --> 01:51:56.600
 more specific to support the strategy so that's the only reason why i was asking so because um

01:51:56.600 --> 01:52:03.640
 because if you get too specified on the strategy then that might inadvertently rule out some other

01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:08.440
 action items that could support that so that that's the only reason why i ask yeah definitely an

01:52:08.440 --> 01:52:13.160
 action item and it would expand to look at the habitat and the connectivity too so this would be

01:52:13.160 --> 01:52:18.360
 something that would be explored in detail with let's say an ecologist or environmental engineer

01:52:18.360 --> 01:52:23.880
 combined does that address your question yeah and commissioner cole are you okay with that okay

01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:31.480
 all right so we'll leave that strategy as worded then number 15 got it back to 16 um i think we

01:52:31.480 --> 01:52:38.440
 set set general consensus of a yes on this uh only thing i'd add in as an action item on this would

01:52:38.440 --> 01:52:45.560
 be uh to add in a sub trail master plan or a subsection to the trail master plan within there

01:52:45.560 --> 01:52:49.800
 that if we're adding those adding in it sounds like the way that strategy is worded is is to

01:52:49.800 --> 01:52:56.920
 create code for allow for pedestrian walkway and you know usage in riparian buffers i think

01:52:56.920 --> 01:53:02.360
 as an action item in that and that's and that 16 would be to then add that into our our master

01:53:02.360 --> 01:53:12.920
 plan our trails master plan we have for parks okay okay anything else is 16 good to go

01:53:12.920 --> 01:53:20.680
 okay 17 prioritized shared use and multi-benefit nature-based infrastructure including

01:53:20.680 --> 01:53:27.560
 best management practices such as bioswales bioretention enhanced swales um and the action

01:53:27.560 --> 01:53:36.680
 item would be which of the uh mass uh design criteria manuals you might need to change in the

01:53:36.680 --> 01:53:44.200
 city to add that in but the strategy is to prioritize that okay we're good looks like

01:53:44.200 --> 01:53:50.520
 we're a general consensus of yes that's good and then uh prioritize the protection restoration

01:53:50.520 --> 01:53:57.240
 expansion of the tall grass prairie and connected woodland spaces in the area okay everyone's good

01:53:57.240 --> 01:54:08.120
 there uh evaluate the efficacy of retrofitting existing stock bonds um to create i'm just going

01:54:08.120 --> 01:54:16.600
 to paraphrase it to create a overall stormwater quantity and quality mitigation system yep looks

01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:26.280
 good so one of the action items of this would be to look at a area wide uh stormwater management

01:54:26.280 --> 01:54:34.440
 plan and then two more historic preservation um strategies that's to conduct a historic resource

01:54:34.440 --> 01:54:40.840
 survey and seek historic designation of vital assets in the area is that a study everyone

01:54:40.840 --> 01:54:47.560
 i think we're on board for that oh commissioner prudit thank you chair i'm not against this but

01:54:47.560 --> 01:54:56.520
 i'm very sensitive to our capacity as a city to actually implement this plan um given the the

01:54:56.520 --> 01:55:04.200
 comments of the the staff needs and that sort of thing i would just ask that the action items be

01:55:04.840 --> 01:55:14.680
 drafted in a manner that gives us clear you know low effort high return items um

01:55:14.680 --> 01:55:23.800
 so that we make sure we with our limited capacity we make the most progress in this as possible

01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:28.040
 well and if i could add to that um and i didn't weigh on the comment previously but

01:55:28.040 --> 01:55:34.600
 you know that we have other resources that we may be able to utilize to accomplish this

01:55:34.600 --> 01:55:42.040
 so while i know shy put a plug for additional staff on my historic preservation team know that

01:55:42.040 --> 01:55:46.520
 we could potentially have resources available to utilize consultant services with to help us with

01:55:46.520 --> 01:55:51.160
 historic resource surveys we've done that in the past so that's not something that is foreign to us

01:55:51.160 --> 01:55:58.040
 that gives us that additional manpower to be able to be able to accomplish that objective so i think

01:55:58.040 --> 01:56:05.160
 the i think the strategy is important to keep um but we can focus on what the necessary action

01:56:05.160 --> 01:56:17.960
 items are to support that okay good we'll give more detail on in during the action items and then

01:56:17.960 --> 01:56:24.120
 seek cultural landscape status for hurtly field yeah i think we're all good there

01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:32.920
 thank you all so much we are thank you shy uh then uh next steps uh city staff you guys can give us

01:56:32.920 --> 01:56:38.280
 the next steps everyone who's watching at home uh what where we go from here right so when we

01:56:38.280 --> 01:56:43.000
 put these materials together we were anticipating that these strategies would also we would have a

01:56:43.000 --> 01:56:51.080
 discussion with council on the 14th um we've retooled our um task on that so we will not be

01:56:51.080 --> 01:56:55.560
 having that discussion with council on the 14th that's a decision that's been made by our director

01:56:56.360 --> 01:56:59.960
 instead council is going to be able to take all the feedback that we receive from the commission

01:56:59.960 --> 01:57:03.720
 and that's why we really wanted to focus and have this conversation with the commission because

01:57:03.720 --> 01:57:08.680
 to more the emphasis on the planning part of your planning and zoning commission title right

01:57:08.680 --> 01:57:14.200
 so i appreciate all your feedback and comments on that so we're going to be retooling our project

01:57:14.200 --> 01:57:20.280
 schedule we will not be having that discussion with council on the 14th the other aspect that

01:57:20.280 --> 01:57:24.680
 we've got is keep in mind is you know as i said earlier all of these tasks and efforts that we

01:57:24.680 --> 01:57:29.000
 work on they build upon each other based upon direction council's already given us so you know

01:57:29.000 --> 01:57:34.280
 ultimately council is the one that's going to be deciding whether or not this plan gets adopted so

01:57:34.280 --> 01:57:38.520
 these strategies really were to see and i appreciate getting your feedback on whether

01:57:38.520 --> 01:57:43.400
 you think that we're on target or if we were off base i thought we did pretty well we only

01:57:43.400 --> 01:57:49.400
 eliminated one strategy so um we will take these strategies we will continue working on this as a

01:57:49.400 --> 01:57:54.920
 project team on supplementing the action items some of those actions you already saw in this material

01:57:54.920 --> 01:58:01.720
 with all and you know if we had shy present that we'd be here till 11 o'clock this evening so we

01:58:01.720 --> 01:58:05.480
 we've got that information out to you in advance so you can see that's already formulating some of

01:58:05.480 --> 01:58:10.280
 those actions but the project team will refine those have those action items that support these

01:58:10.280 --> 01:58:16.440
 strategies and then we will update our discuss denton webpage as we always do when we make any

01:58:16.440 --> 01:58:19.960
 changes to the schedule associated with the project because i know we have several folks that are

01:58:19.960 --> 01:58:25.240
 interested in following this project along and be able to communicate that out so um that's our next

01:58:25.240 --> 01:58:31.240
 steps and we will again continue to push information out as well as to the steering committee

01:58:31.240 --> 01:58:40.440
 and as to what our next steps will be for the project awesome um christopher thank you chair i

01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:48.120
 i think there was a note about you know if there were any additional um strategies or goals yes i'm

01:58:48.120 --> 01:58:53.800
 sorry we should have asked was was there a strategy that you felt we left out so um

01:58:53.800 --> 01:59:01.320
 so based on some of the comments about the north area from other commissioners being kind of

01:59:01.320 --> 01:59:06.440
 separate and undetermined of when it will come in and very different from the area south of clear creek

01:59:08.680 --> 01:59:15.960
 i i understand that our our fiscal evaluation of this was included in the prior joint

01:59:15.960 --> 01:59:25.240
 session that we had with council um as i think through the implementation of of you know if

01:59:25.240 --> 01:59:32.840
 areas like this start to to develop uh and there are you know requests for rezoning to support

01:59:32.840 --> 01:59:39.720
 the plan and that sort of thing um i anticipate that we will get our fiscal evaluation for each

01:59:39.720 --> 01:59:49.560
 individual project and there may be comments of well this one doesn't pencil oh that's okay

01:59:49.560 --> 01:59:56.680
 because others will right and so i'm wondering whether it would be appropriate to kind of now

01:59:56.680 --> 02:00:02.440
 that the plan is a little bit more refined rerun that tool as a separate geographic section

02:00:02.440 --> 02:00:12.520
 south of clear creek from the north of clear creek future area in order to ensure that everybody's

02:00:12.520 --> 02:00:21.960
 kind of comfortable with um with the plan being fiscally sound as our comp plan asks does that

02:00:21.960 --> 02:00:28.920
 make sense i think i'm understanding your asks so basically you're wanting us to reevaluate the

02:00:28.920 --> 02:00:34.760
 fiscal impact analysis associated with the land use recommendations in the plan or did i miss that

02:00:34.760 --> 02:00:41.800
 yeah that's that's accurate and i think you know as we refine it through the implementation the goal

02:00:41.800 --> 02:00:54.680
 would be to balance those needs with other needs in in the area um just so that we we do the

02:00:54.680 --> 02:01:04.200
 implementation in a way that is least uh puts the least upward pressure on tax rates for for people

02:01:04.200 --> 02:01:11.880
 in the city does that make sense i think i'm following you um my i think let me let me just

02:01:11.880 --> 02:01:19.080
 say like as an example if if different zoning change applications come to us and we hear

02:01:19.080 --> 02:01:24.120
 here's the fiscal report for this one here's the one for this one here's the one for that one

02:01:24.120 --> 02:01:31.160
 i mean i i can envision a a future where it says oh well don't worry about this one because we

02:01:31.160 --> 02:01:39.320
 have others coming that are going to offset it or something right and and so having a basis for that

02:01:39.320 --> 02:01:47.160
 sort of claim as part of the outcome of the plan i think would help explain that once that that time

02:01:47.160 --> 02:01:54.600
 comes does that make sense i i think so i i guess i would look at this from a standpoint then uh you

02:01:54.600 --> 02:02:00.680
 know keep in mind that fiscal impact analysis tool that we developed was to be used for informational

02:02:00.680 --> 02:02:06.600
 purposes and not the sole determinant of all of our decisions um you know with this plan we did an

02:02:06.600 --> 02:02:12.600
 extensive amount of fiscal analysis above and beyond what we had scoped as a result of some of

02:02:12.600 --> 02:02:17.640
 the questions that we had received previously were to the point where if we want to do any additional

02:02:17.640 --> 02:02:24.760
 fiscal analysis associated with it then that either needs to be a recommended action item that is

02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:30.760
 included associated with or possibly a strategy we'll have to ruminate over that a little bit more

02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:37.000
 but um with the the land development and or the economic section of the strategy but i'm i don't

02:02:37.000 --> 02:02:41.720
 have the ability financially at this time related for this project to do that additional fiscal

02:02:41.720 --> 02:02:46.440
 analysis associated with it but that's not to say that you know if you feel that that's something

02:02:46.440 --> 02:02:51.480
 important that we need to include as a strategy and our action item within the plan we can always

02:02:51.480 --> 02:02:58.600
 we can always put that in the plan um in including you know monitoring decisions that have been made

02:02:58.600 --> 02:03:04.520
 as it relates to land development applications and to rezonings within the area that might influence

02:03:04.520 --> 02:03:10.360
 the outcome of the the fiscal impact does it would does that help address your need yeah and

02:03:10.360 --> 02:03:16.280
 i understand you can't commit to something that's not funded um i just i don't have the means under

02:03:16.280 --> 02:03:20.520
 my existing contract either right so that i just want to make sure the commission is is aware of

02:03:20.520 --> 02:03:29.160
 that so i'm i'm aware of that i i just think including it helps us keep that front and center

02:03:29.160 --> 02:03:35.400
 okay so so we can look at um possibly adding that as a strategy and our action item um

02:03:36.200 --> 02:03:43.640
 within the plan itself yeah okay okay any other items any other strategies anything else want to

02:03:43.640 --> 02:03:50.840
 be included okay uh before we adjourn i just want to say thank you to uh shy and our consultants

02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:55.320
 as well as a big thank you to staff now this has been a huge project you guys have undertaken

02:03:55.320 --> 02:03:59.480
 greatly appreciate it really appreciate your hard work and i hope that doesn't just sound like

02:03:59.480 --> 02:04:05.800
 smoke being blown um i don't want to just don't you know prolong our meeting just to say thank you

02:04:05.800 --> 02:04:09.640
 but thank you and thank you to the steering committee and the steering committee being here

02:04:09.640 --> 02:04:16.120
 i know it's been a lot of sweat and uh tears and hopefully not a lot of blood but uh plenty of

02:04:16.120 --> 02:04:20.840
 sweat and tears so uh thank you guys for your help and your assistance and being able to get this plan

02:04:20.840 --> 02:04:26.440
 down uh we're very appreciative of it so and uh hopefully you guys are appreciative too so uh with

02:04:26.440 --> 02:04:31.080
 that said no other comments uh there is no concluding items on the agenda uh so therefore

02:04:31.080 --> 02:04:37.400
 at 6 20 i'll convene our meeting thank you very much