WEBVTT

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 and begin so if you can call you your respective meetings to order okay uh today is tuesday august

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 first 2023 it is 11.09 a.m and we have a forum so i'll call the city council portion of the meeting

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 order and with the forum present on the planning and zoning commission i will call our meetings

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 okay so we only have one thing on our agenda today uh just to set the staff will do it as

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 well but it's a gather input from all parties then we will uh the council will make a recommendation

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 but want to make sure we have a good conversation around that decisions so with that first items

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 item a id 231193 receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding draft scenarios

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 for the northeast end area plan thank you mayor tina fergens i'm the deputy director of development

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 services so again as the mayor mentioned the goal for today is to have a collective discussion

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 amongst the commission and the steering committee and council but ultimately we do need to receive

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 policy direction from city council since they requested us to be able to do this project and

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 they customarily provide policy direction for the city um ultimately our goal coming out of the

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 meeting today is to receive direction regarding one of the two scenarios that is being presented

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 and hence where we need your feedback we do request that um so shy ruse with hdr is on the

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 consultant team that the city has retained to assist us with this project so i do ask that the

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 group um allow her to get through the various sections of her presentation we've got some breaks

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 programmed in to allow for some opportunities for question and clarification but really our goal is

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 to get to the proposed scenarios um so that we can have the discussion there and receive that

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 feedback if we start to go down a rabbit trail on a particular item let's make note of what that is

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 we can always come back at the end of the meeting time permitting and with that uh mayor chair ellis

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 if you do not have any questions of our team i'm going to go ahead and turn it over to shy

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 yeah i would like predicate though and so if it's a question that you can't note without a question

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 and to the presenter by all means otherwise just note your question we'll come back to it but if

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 it's something that is absolutely critical that hey i can't formulate my question and else i know

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 that please get my attention let's address those but other than that we're going to try to it just

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 be impossible the questions will take over so all right thank you yes thank you so

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 thank you tina and um good morning everyone and again thank you all so much for your time today

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 we'll move on to our slide here i'd especially like to thank the council appointed 15 members

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 steering committee that has been instrumental in guiding the project team to get the project to

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 this stage so jumping to the project overview part the background part here the northeast

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 denton area plan is a result of the 2040 comprehensive plan recommendation to study this area in further

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 detail in april of 2022 the city council directed staff to proceed with preparation of a community

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 community-based vision for the northeast denton area the key purpose of this area plan was to

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 respond effectively and efficiently to the developments that are being proposed in this

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 area and the resulting concerns raised by the community related to land use traffic open space

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 and the lack of environmental protection in the area so this area is bounded by clear creek to the

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 east us 380 to the south loop 288 and fm 428 to the west and to the north by e sherman or the future

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 the future outer loop so the one one thing to know about this area though is out of this

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 8500 acre study area only about 47 percent is in the city limits and the majority which is over 53

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 percent is in the outside and not outside the city's jurisdiction so the biggest challenge for any

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 planning effort in this area is that the city can only influence development on 47 percent of this

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 study area unless the property owners choose to annex into the city so this plan shows in the

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 slides in the next you'll see that this plan shows recommendations for future land use

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 in the etj area which is in the county sphere of influence only so that the city will be prepared

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 in case these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the future

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 therefore when you see land use or policy ideas that are outside city limits please keep in mind

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 that at this time the city cannot ensure that these ideas or proposed uses will happen so

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 in addition to addressing the development the purpose of this plan is also to ensure an inclusive

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 community dialogue to develop a collective vision for the future of the area to identify areas of

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 change or areas of preservation and to develop some ideas for future improvements and to make

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 recommendations about the capital improvements to meet this collective vision of the community

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 here's a quick look at the timeline for the planning process we spent january through april

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 in the area collecting data researching and engaging the community we presented our findings

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 it doesn't point my apologies we presented these findings to the steering committee in may

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 and also worked with the steering committee to finalize a draft of the vision statement

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 at this meeting and we spent the summer developing two scenarios their options

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 and both of which reflect the vision statement once we have direction from you on which scenario

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 to use we will incorporate your feedback into our recommendations and then spend the next three

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 months getting community input in various settings like an open house online and public public

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 hearings the anticipated adoption date for this plan is november of 2023 so as mentioned we engaged

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 the community for four months the goal was to involve and to understand the vision the desires

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 the challenges of all stakeholders of the northeast area the current residents as well as the

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 stakeholders like business owners property owners that don't reside in the area visitors workforce

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 and even future residents of this area with this in mind we started with stakeholder interviews with

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 25 people then for the community at large we conducted two in-person visioning workshops

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 and an online survey 265 people attended the in-person workshop 44 people took the online

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 survey we then conducted a strategic foresight workshop with 39 participants that ranged across

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 all age groups professional backgrounds and interests in northeast denton and so on

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 a detailed description of the community engagement events and the results are posted online on

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 discuss denton under the project link so if the participants total participants 201 provided their

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 addresses we've mapped these here for you of these 201 overall 89 were city residents 112 were county

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 residents out of those 201 participants 140 people lived in the northeast denton area plan

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 study area and of those part of our participants living in the study area 43 live within the city

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 limits and 97 live in the county so in summary in the stakeholder interviews we heard that elected

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 officials wanted this plan to manage expectations residents wanted to keep the zoning as is meaning

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 five acre minimum lots preserve green space preserve small town rural environment and

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 developers wanted some higher density with in to allow the preservation of open space or to be

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 allowed to build according to market demand everyone agreed that respecting and preserving

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 the natural environment of northeast denton is important here we see what some of the summary of

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 what we the themes that we saw coming out of the visioning workshop and these themes are preserving

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 natural field preserving green spaces maintaining rural area limiting construction keeping the area

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 affordable enhancing outdoor activities and making the area walkable we also held the strategic

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 foresight workshop where we asked the participants to consider future trends and imagine potential

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 scenarios for the year 2050 so during the workshop again the consensus was on preserving and

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 celebrating the natural environment the majority asked for no more apartments but not all stakeholders

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 were against apartments in fact a diversity of housing and live work environment but in a rural

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 setting were popular among the majority of the participants and the scenarios we we took the

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 vision statement generated at this workshop and conducted an online voting we received 123 responses

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 of these 69 responses voted for the vision statement developed by the friends of northeast

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 denton we presented this to the steering committee and the committee modified some of the words and

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 phrases what you see here is the steering committee recommendation i won't read the whole

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 statement but as you can see we've highlighted the central themes of this vision statement

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 environmental preservation rural character conservation development and an area that

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 is valued and enjoyed by all of dentin so keeping these main themes in mind we started our existing

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 conditions analysis with natural systems so the purpose of the map to the left shows you the

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 existing floodplain on the map to the right you can see that there are creeks and channels in the

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 area that are not fema designated however these still function like the land in the floodplain

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 in our environmentally fragile areas that should be cared for similar to the land designated in

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 the floodplain as we've seen in the northeast denton area itself any development whether it's

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 agriculture or five acre lots or higher density it all requires repairing restoring preservation

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 and or enhancement strategies if we want to preserve a natural environment or natural systems

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 so we studied these five types of environmentally sensitive areas designated by the city of denton

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 and the existing ecosystems to understand areas needing repair and restoration due to the impacts

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 of existing development and lack of maintenance and the areas needing preservation

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 and the areas where enhanced interventions could mitigate the impacts of future developments

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 we wanted to determine the strategies that would be needed depending upon the type of development

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 so we then also analyze conditions that may impact the future of this area as you can see

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 on this map growth is moving not just towards dentin but also towards northeast dentin specifically

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 the thoroughfare plan here shows northeast dentin study area bounded on all sides by major existing

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 or proposed regional thoroughfares making it easily accessible to the rest of the region

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 with two major universities a lively downtown eclectic music and art scene and a unique vibe

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 denton's popularity as a place to live is only going to increase and thereby bring more development

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 to the northeast dentin area large parcel developments large parcels of undeveloped land

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 under single ownership in the study area will be instrumental in shaping the future of this area

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 but as you can see on this map only only properties labeled one five six and seven

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 are in the city limits with property labeled five being city owned parkland all the rest of the large

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 properties are in the etj and outside city's ability to influence any future development

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 on this land unless these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the

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 future a summary of the developable land analysis shows 3,300 acres or 45 percent of the land area

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 is protected flood zone and parkland but there is still 3,000 acres or 30 percent of the study area

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 that is undeveloped surrounded by well-connected existing future transportation network directly

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 in the path of development especially coming west along us 380 from mckinney to aubrey to denton

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 there is also 24 percent of developed land that can always be redeveloped and again all of this

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 the city can only influence development on about 47 percent of this area

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 next we'll uh i'm sorry yeah next we looked at the demographics that will influence the future

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 development the largest population as you can see on this slide especially in the study area

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 is gen gen z which is people aged between eight six and 25 in the northeast denton study area

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 57 population is under the age of 40 and citywide over 60 of the population is under the age of 40

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 we also looked at workforce in the area as you can see 1361 people come into this area daily

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 and that is before counting the employment that will be created from the new warehouse and

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 industrial developments along mingle road these workers are also people who might look

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 to move to northeast denton to be closer to their jobs these are some of the factors to consider

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 address and balance alongside the community input to choose the future scenario for the northeast

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 denton for the project team to develop further so before we continue um we'll open it up for any

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 questions up until this point if you all have um okay question of clarification to make sure you

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 yeah barony i'm sorry so shea sorry vicki mcgovern i'm a part of the steering committee

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 i'm part of the etj so shea you had mentioned that the city has no um say if you will in anything

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 in the etj and i just want to clarify the question is there not a collaboration at all between the

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 county and the city that's that's point one number two i will say that i recently as being part of

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 the etj replatted my land of seven acres and i was oversaw seen if you will by the city so there is

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 some level of influence because i had to go through the city to get that replat done so i just want

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 for the broader spectrum to know that there is some level and i'd like clarity on the collaboration

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 of that sure and that's a that's a question we'll come back to certainly thank you uh

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 i've noted it staff's noted it we go councilman watts yeah just just a couple of data questions

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 um i'll try to go backwards so that i remember on the slide that shows the developable area

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 i think it was slide 24 to 30 percent and all that we can go back to that i just want to understand

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 from my own it's got the little high graph i'm sorry i'm trying to go back circle on it

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 right there uh is that just the acreage within the city limit boundaries of the

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 plan is that the total plan i'm sorry could you repeat that sure are the acreage uh numbers

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 represented on this slide based upon the 8500 acres of the plan or the just the city 8500 acres

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 sir do you know what the breakdown is for the city land that's in the plan for that slide

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 not off the top of my head but i can definitely calculate it by the end sure uh there's just a

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 couple more mayor sorry um let's see on the floodplain on the slide that shows the floodplain

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 and the acreage associated with it you said there's so many acres in the floodplain

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 and now okay just so that i understand any acreage calculations moving forward in the

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 presentation are based upon the 8500 there's nothing that says hey here's what's in the city

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 floodplain here's what's in the etj or county floodplain is that okay so then on the floodplain so

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 if i could get that as well that breakdown if we could on what floodplain is in the city and what

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 designated floodplain by fema and so then total when you say the total number of acres in the

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 floodplain is that representing the acreage that's designated by fema plus the acreage you say

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 quote unquote functions as a floodplain no only the acreage designated by fema is calculated in the

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 floodplain okay all right uh let's see i think that i've got other questions but they're more

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 substantive questions or not okay so then my understanding is the the acreage of the

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 largest landowners is in the city portion where those four landowners yes one five six one five

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 six seven and that totaled up 1538 acres when you add those up and then you're saying how much of the

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 plan is in the city is was it four thousand or 3800 or 47 percent of 8500 approximately here or

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 there okay all right thank you mayor appreciate it yeah and i'm sorry i can't see you that's that

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 yeah i just got also equal kind of clarification on data so when you said the average home is low

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 three hundreds are those new homes in the area or those existing homes in the area

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 i heard the number new cost cost on homes is low three hundreds

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 yeah i'm just asking this because i can't find a home of under three hundred and ninety thousand

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 dollars in the area anyway in the area in that area so i'm just kind of qualifying when we talk

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 about affordability on homes and you say low 300 i'm not finding anything under 390 in that area

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 that's new right and we're talking about new development oh okay that was from stakeholder

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 interviews my apologies so in the stakeholder interviews that is what the developers had

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 presented is what the starter home is at okay i did they qualify where they were looking at

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 i was told in denton a starter home is considered three hundred thousand is what the ideal is that

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 not really narrowed down and then secondly um i think there's some just just disconnect

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 between how many people voted for the options other than the seven proposed vision statements

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 um if i i recall correctly there were 189 other votes aside from the seven proposed vision states

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 i just want to kind of clarify because you said that there were 70 or whatever it was

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 that were specifically copy and pasted from what we proposed but i understand there was a significant

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 other amount that modified that i just want to make sure that we're aware that it was substantially

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 larger amount of people that voted for anything other than the seven i will need to go back and

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 double check how many because my data that i did look at for this presentation i had 123 total

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 people that responded to it so i will double check where the 189 numbers come from and i'll get back

00:23:32.080 --> 00:23:47.040
 to you that's okay okay go right ahead yes at the end that that i've noted it but i don't

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 i don't know that there's an answer we can give you that would then inform other questions it's

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 just a question generally uh for the for the group but in summary and i've noted all of them and

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 noticed i didn't answer any of them because uh we're going to let her finish but i i hope

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 that the information provided helps people jot down their questions for the end of presentation

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 that's my goal okay so looking at uh both scenarios that are being presented today

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 meet the vision statement they both prioritize um environmental preservation they both honor the

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 rural character of the area and both recommend conservation development that protects open

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 space and greenways and both strive to establish northeast denton as a special area for all of

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 denton to enjoy so without further ado the two scenarios are business as usual and balancing act

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 the business as usual scenario is based on just the community desire without accounting for

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 the development the balancing act scenario is based on community desire while accounting for

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 the future developments we developed a set of character areas and roadway cross sections that

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 would be compatible with the vision statement as well as serve the needs of the proposed and

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 anticipated types of future developments as again as i mentioned previously an important point to

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 keep in mind is that while we show land uses and roadway recommendations in the etj outside the

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 city limits this is just aspirational and in case property owners wish to annex otherwise the city

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 has no jurisdiction to ensure that these land uses and densities are in fact followed i'll describe

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 the character areas and then come back so you can relate the colors on the map to the character

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 areas better so the green on the maps is meant for the conservation or the natural areas for

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 environmental protection as well as for recreation areas and then the yellow is rural residential

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 two to five acre lots the orange is residential transition an area about three to five dwelling

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 units per acre overall density but with some neighborhood retail and large public open spaces

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 to transition the high intensity uses into the rural residential and then the dark lime which

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 you'll see at the intersection of mingo and collins road is a rural village center this area is

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 envisioned as a mix of residential and commercial uses in one or two story buildings with a rural

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 village feel main main street style setting and this land use we want to let you know we've shown

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 it in this area but it could be used as a transition between residential and residential transition

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 in other areas as appropriate these three character areas gateway town center and

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 industrial were developed to respond to some of the existing and anticipated future developments

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 based on regional transportation improvements in the area the purpose of these character areas

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 is to provide development guidelines to ensure preservation and enhancement of natural areas

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 while accommodating the grocery stores and retail the community wanted as you can see in this town

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 center image at the bottom providing higher density on a smaller land area can allow for

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 preservation of larger open spaces so coming back to the scenarios first business as usual

00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:57.040
 under business as usual most of the study area is designated as rural residential this is regardless

00:27:57.040 --> 00:28:05.200
 of the future plans for expansion of 428 or into a six lane thoroughfare and the construction of

00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:12.800
 outer loop north along sherman in in addition to the rural residential business as usual provides

00:28:12.800 --> 00:28:22.720
 for residential transition and industrial on the southern edges to us 380 and loop 288 next looking

00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:29.440
 at the balancing act the balancing act scenario considers market impact of these regional thoroughfares

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:39.440
 yeah the second to the right is the balancing act and this one considers in addition to the

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:45.440
 regional thoroughfares it does consider current and future younger demographics in the study area

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:54.880
 and citywide so north of bottom circle you can see on the map here and adjacent to the outer loop and

00:28:54.880 --> 00:29:03.280
 fm 428 these areas have been designated for gateway and town center uses residential transition is

00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:11.280
 proposed just south of these higher intensity uses with rural residential and conservation areas to

00:29:11.280 --> 00:29:20.240
 protect the natural environment in this scenario the area between fm 428 loop 288 and ferrish road

00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:31.520
 the orange area to the west of sorry the rural residential this has been designated as residential

00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:38.880
 transition in this scenario this reflects some of the existing developments in this area and

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:46.240
 it also is a means to balance the development and preservation by allowing for more density but with

00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:54.560
 larger public open spaces we hope that this will both protect the rural residential and the natural

00:29:54.560 --> 00:30:01.600
 environment in the to the east in addition this also keeps the cost of infrastructure cost of new

00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:08.240
 infrastructure lower by allowing for new development to happen where the existing infrastructure is

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:16.240
 the next few slides are just examples to help everyone envision what residential transition

00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.880
 areas and the rural residential could look like and how these character areas relate to the vision

00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:30.080
 statement so the red shows you where this site plan has been considered or some ideas of this

00:30:30.080 --> 00:30:38.160
 site plan if you stand in on Collins there's a little directional map up there showing where

00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.160
 the person standing and the view looking out towards rural residential

00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:52.160
 again there's a little map showing where the view is looking towards the park you can see these are

00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:58.160
 all one or two story buildings this one is standing at the edge looking towards the industrial

00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:07.440
 and then on this one it's up on the north where on one side you're looking out into rural residential

00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.600
 seeing some of the residential transition and then looking into

00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:23.520
 your more mixed use type from one location so going forward we assume densities for each scenario

00:31:23.520 --> 00:31:29.280
 and calculated rough estimates of the traffic counts these are definitely not traffic impact

00:31:29.280 --> 00:31:35.840
 analysis level trip generation but have only been developed to give us an idea about the cross

00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:44.000
 section street cross sections that would be needed for both people and cars to navigate the area

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:50.720
 safely in the future the one thing i'd like to point out in this is that while the land use

00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:59.280
 shown in the etj south of heartley field is the same in both scenarios if you can see the 3460

00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:09.600
 and on the other it is 27750 so this is because in the balancing act scenario we counted existing

00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:18.640
 lots and houses and then assume market densities similar to the current development applications

00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:26.720
 that the city's been receiving from the developers for the rest of the area so we added the two and

00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:34.000
 the thought here was that while the city can deny these applications in the city limits in the etj

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:41.200
 the developers can just move these proposals to the county area as the demand for housing in this

00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:50.240
 area increases so using these densities and traffic counts we develop the roadway infrastructure for

00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:57.120
 each scenario a key difference from the existing thoroughfare plan that we'd shown earlier to this

00:32:57.120 --> 00:33:06.320
 one is that the proposed east west primary arterial has been downgraded to a secondary arterial

00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:13.840
 and it does not go past the green belt anymore also while we kept the classification names the

00:33:13.840 --> 00:33:19.680
 secondary arterial commercial collector these names are the same as they exist in the current

00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:25.520
 city thoroughfare plan we are proposing cross sections that will be more compatible with the

00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:32.000
 vision for the area so here's some examples of the cross section for secondary arterial which is

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:40.560
 rural section section of heartley field road between collins road and purist these are two

00:33:40.560 --> 00:33:49.520
 options you can use them in that section then here is a secondary arterial cross section for the

00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:56.560
 residential transition area which would be west of heartley field so you can see we're trying to

00:33:56.560 --> 00:34:03.760
 make sure that the cross sections in this area do match the vision and the character of the area

00:34:05.840 --> 00:34:14.880
 so we also studied so and we we performed an environmental and fiscal impact for both the

00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:22.480
 scenarios for environmental impact we considered land in both city limits and outside the city

00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:30.800
 limits but for fiscal impact we only considered land within the city limits in business as usual

00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.440
 scenario we assume needing restoration and preservation strategies one of the main

00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:45.840
 environmental mitigation challenges in this scenario is the large land set of sites that

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:51.840
 will be needed to offset the lower density development sprawl which becomes difficult

00:34:51.840 --> 00:35:01.040
 with privately owned properties and open space for for balancing act we assumed repair and enhance

00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:08.400
 strategies in addition to the restoration and preservation strategies while in this scenario

00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:14.880
 targeted development areas allow for more publicly accessible land to incorporate the restoration and

00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:23.200
 preservation lack of certainty about specific development configurations makes it difficult

00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:30.720
 to plan improvements without major public investment so in summary both scenarios have their own

00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:37.120
 challenges in implementing the environmental strategies and they both have similar costs

00:35:37.120 --> 00:35:45.440
 the balancing scenario cost estimates are 25 to 50 million higher however the balancing act scenario

00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:52.880
 also includes strategies for repair and enhancement of the natural systems and it also allows for

00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:01.280
 considerable cost burden to be shifted from public sector to private sector we use city's fiscal

00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:08.320
 impact model to conduct a high level analysis of property but as mentioned earlier we only applied

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:15.440
 this model to within the city limits to each of the scenario we use this model to calculate the

00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:23.840
 revenues and the expenditures that is to get the net city fiscal impact for each of the scenarios

00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:27.040
 over 40 years let's start with business

00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:39.280
 yeah let's start with business as usual scenario in this scenario we used assumptions that you see on

00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:46.320
 the slide here the rural residential has five acre lots and residential transition is a blend

00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:57.600
 of small lots we assume that the areas south of hardly feel are similar on both the

00:36:57.600 --> 00:37:08.400
 business as usual and the balancing act scenario and this is because in this scenario it's likely

00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.720
 that the county areas may develop high with higher densities and the traffic generated from

00:37:14.720 --> 00:37:21.440
 this higher development will leave the etj and travel onto the city roads when planning for

00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:26.640
 infrastructure costs the city will want to be prepared to build infrastructure to accommodate

00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:35.280
 these higher traffic counts in the balancing act scenario we use densities you see here on the slide

00:37:36.240 --> 00:37:41.440
 for for example was modeled with development clustered together in open spaces

00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:50.720
 i am obviously reading from the wrong thing so let me go back to the slide here my apologies

00:37:50.720 --> 00:38:00.480
 so we did look at both the we had some assumptions for these business as usual as well as the

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:08.240
 balancing act and the only difference is in the business as usual south of heartley field we

00:38:08.240 --> 00:38:15.040
 considered it exactly the same as we did for the balancing act and like i said earlier the reason

00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:22.320
 for this was that we don't know how it will develop and the city will want to be prepared in case

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:27.600
 there is a higher density development that goes in there that you all can't control because that

00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:34.400
 traffic will come on to your city streets in addition the way we looked at the assumptions

00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:45.360
 was for business as usual we had it laid out as the entire area divided into lots five acre lots

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:54.160
 and basically what that did was it passed on the maintenance and restoration of natural environment

00:38:54.160 --> 00:39:03.840
 the cost of it to the private property owner in our balancing act we we assumed that the development

00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:12.400
 would occur on a smaller pocket with higher amount of land publicly accessible land at which time the

00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:19.440
 costs of environmental protection or maintenance went away or the private property owner was

00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:29.200
 relieved of that cost so looking at the two estimates what we got was for business as usual

00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:38.720
 your net impact is 2.3 billion and for balancing act it's 6.3 billion the additional open space you

00:39:38.720 --> 00:39:49.840
 get for business as usual is 442 acres and for balancing act is 627 acres so summarizing this

00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:58.400
 the difference is that the main difference is that we basically have a fiscal impact on the

00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:05.440
 city's general fund with the balancing act scenario results in four billion dollars more in revenue

00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:13.040
 and almost 200 acres more in publicly available open space the cost estimates for mitigating

00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:20.560
 environmental impacts at about 25 to 50 million less in business as usual than in the balancing

00:40:20.560 --> 00:40:28.640
 act scenario with most of the restoration left to individual property owners but the main difference

00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:35.200
 in these scenarios is that the balancing act scenario prepares the city for future infrastructure

00:40:35.200 --> 00:40:42.480
 needs and also allows for sharing of infrastructure and environmental mitigation costs with private

00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:51.760
 development so these are quick summary takeaways now we'd like to ask you all for direction on

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:59.120
 today the direction on one of these two scenarios business as usual or the balancing act yes sir

00:40:59.120 --> 00:41:10.160
 yeah um that concludes your presentation okay great do you have the answers to those other

00:41:10.160 --> 00:41:17.280
 questions before we dig in so questions yeah the questions one was around uh collaboration with

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.880
 county i know we have to answer that because i already asked it and so it's on the sheet if

00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:27.120
 someone wants to just read it with respect to how the city and county collaborate on

00:41:27.120 --> 00:41:37.120
 so in terms of the city and county collaboration i'll be uh i don't know which number you're

00:41:37.120 --> 00:41:41.520
 referring to because i just received this but normally we do have good strong partnership

00:41:41.520 --> 00:41:46.160
 in collaboration with denton county that's why we have stephen belknap here that is

00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:52.800
 serving on the steering committee as well so and the bottom line is platting authority in our

00:41:52.800 --> 00:42:00.800
 etj area etj one we had an interlocal agreement with denton county in etj one the city provides

00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:07.760
 platting etj two the county provides platting so in denton county someone that does not live in a

00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:13.360
 corporate limit will plat their property and have to follow subdivision regulations it does not

00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:18.160
 address the number of buildings the size of buildings the use of buildings or the mass of

00:42:18.160 --> 00:42:24.320
 buildings and the only regulation then with the city is an etj one and it relates to the platting

00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:33.600
 authority and sorry may i just add so when we said that city has no jurisdiction or cannot influence

00:42:33.600 --> 00:42:40.800
 development we're talking about land use authority so you can subdivide a property

00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:48.080
 you have to subdivide it well the city has to say yes as long as all the utilities are provided to

00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:54.160
 the property but the city cannot say no to land use right bear with me let me get through your

00:42:54.160 --> 00:43:01.360
 first rate uh and then um land amount of land in the city in the plan did you have a chance to look

00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:07.760
 at that so that was councilmember watts's question you can come back to it if you had we'll have to

00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:15.200
 follow up with that we're calculating and the same within the floodplain don't calculate got it okay

00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:23.520
 and then um how many people voted that you you have you still calculating looking at that right

00:43:23.520 --> 00:43:29.040
 123 versus 189 yeah i just need to go back to the okay yeah no problem just wanted to touch on those

00:43:29.040 --> 00:43:35.440
 okay uh councilmember melton thank you very much for your indulgence yeah thank you um i want to

00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:40.800
 track a little bit of the sequence of events and and add a very important piece

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:48.960
 uh attended a okay i want to track a little bit of the sequence of events and add a very important

00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:56.560
 piece i attended some of the community input and i think a very telling exercise that's reflected

00:43:56.560 --> 00:44:01.840
 in everything here was the the visual one where people placed red dots by images of various types

00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:09.040
 of development and and uh by and large if the rectangle was predominantly green correct me

00:44:09.040 --> 00:44:13.600
 if i'm wrong that's where the red dots were anything vertical construction pavement not

00:44:13.600 --> 00:44:22.240
 uh and that's uh that's reflected in the vision statement that came out from the steering committee

00:44:22.240 --> 00:44:28.720
 i think we're talking about early may uh that talks about prioritizing environmental preservation

00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:34.320
 and healthy recreation honoring rural character protecting open space and greenways

00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:38.240
 and establishing northeast denton is a special place for all of denton to enjoy

00:44:38.240 --> 00:44:46.960
 now we also heard that the city only influences 40 some odd percent because it's etj

00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:57.840
 but as i get to this last event i ask you well who does influence in the city and out of the city

00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:06.720
 i'm going to answer that question in late may after our meetings after these two uh visions were kind

00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:14.800
 of crafted governor greg abbott signs legislation authorizing a billion dollar fund to buy land for

00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:22.800
 new parks and expand existing ones now you might say well how would would they notice our little

00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:27.600
 part of the world even though we're one of the fastest growing parts of texas well tell you

00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:35.840
 who the author of the bill and the resolution was in the house who's tan parker tan parker from

00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:44.080
 flower mound uh so when i look at the the bipartisan acknowledgement that texas is

00:45:44.080 --> 00:45:51.200
 under parked when i look at the fact that our population is growing and our parks per park

00:45:51.200 --> 00:45:57.600
 acreage per capita is shrinking and the fact that this area has a variety of ecosystems

00:45:58.240 --> 00:46:06.560
 it has already planned accessibility and that this direction could provide a fair return

00:46:06.560 --> 00:46:13.680
 to landowners and achieve the preservation goals that the neighborhood so clearly requires

00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:21.600
 uh i i ask that that be uh investigated seriously as an option i've mentioned it to staff and

00:46:21.600 --> 00:46:26.480
 the response has been interesting we'll monitor with all due respect i don't think that's how

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:32.800
 you get it done i think it requires putting together a proposal and a plan that speaks to

00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.600
 the ecosystems the accessibility the population growth of the unique features and the fact that

00:46:37.600 --> 00:46:43.120
 it could be adjacent to clear creek reminds me of how big ben's got a state park adjacent to a big

00:46:43.120 --> 00:46:50.960
 national park you could have a big contiguous area so uh submitted for your consideration

00:46:52.880 --> 00:47:04.080
 all right um so i'm gonna thank you appreciate it we only have an hour if you want to hear from

00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:09.600
 them speaking then then we'll have to be uh a little more efficient so thank you very much

00:47:09.600 --> 00:47:15.840
 i appreciate your support for the comments um that being said any anyone ask a question hadn't asked

00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:21.280
 question first time around let's get those uh this goes suzy and then uh did i see your hand

00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:29.760
 councillor member okay and then mayor pro tem susie and the mayor i was curious if the fiscal

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:37.360
 analysis included i was curious if the fiscal analysis included um anything beyond when we

00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:42.560
 actually replace the infrastructure because 40 is a little around the time we might start to replace

00:47:42.560 --> 00:47:47.440
 or a little before we start to replace infrastructure i know we've got um the next bond that's going to

00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.160
 come up is going to be road heavy a lot of that is road replacement reconstruction that kind of

00:47:52.160 --> 00:47:57.600
 thing so i'm curious if we're accounting for that when we're comparing the option a option b the

00:47:57.600 --> 00:48:10.640
 replacement part sorry i got a big voice anyway i work first i am a senior commons with uh in north

00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:17.760
 texas area the ticket model that we were using which is the one that is developed by okay which

00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:23.040
 is the one that it has been developing is being used by the city of den i understand does take

00:48:23.040 --> 00:48:30.000
 into account some of the um replacement costs especially what you're doing with roads especially

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.200
 since uh this particular physical impact model went out 40 years so yes that's something i did

00:48:35.200 --> 00:48:41.440
 notice a lot of fiscal impact models go from about 20 to 30 but this one does go out and did take

00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:54.880
 into account um the replacement of particular types of roads thank you all um so i'm going to

00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.360
 follow up with that with another a couple of economic questions for the model which i was

00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:06.080
 unclear on um if we're it seems like the the correct me if i'm wrong that the the fiscal

00:49:06.080 --> 00:49:13.760
 impact was just the region just the 8500 acres less than 8500 acres the fiscal impact was

00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:20.080
 only that property that's in city limits because outside there's no tax revenue coming in so the

00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:30.240
 39.95 or 4000 acres that's about 4000 yes sir um okay so um when we're doing this sort of analysis

00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:37.280
 we have to take into account i think um the a couple of environmental factors and and economic

00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:45.360
 factors that i'm not sure i want to ask about um when in general a lot of the factors uh for

00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:52.800
 economics both in the region and in the detton region writ large will be determined by uh vmt

00:49:52.800 --> 00:50:01.680
 vehicle miles traveled and so if if you're looking at the the number of vehicle miles traveled it'll

00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:08.080
 it'll impact the environmental costs and the roadway installation costs and the roadway

00:50:08.080 --> 00:50:16.320
 replacement costs and so i i'm curious if you have an assessment on the sort of level of vmt

00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:24.320
 that changes between the two models and if you consider um the city as a whole uh because that

00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.120
 that's a destination point for the city it's envisioned as a destination point for the city

00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:35.600
 um and so what are the what are the roadway impacts and both in terms of installation

00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:43.280
 replacement and then when we're doing stormwater runoff lower levels of miles and different types

00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:49.040
 of road installation will and the vmt's on those different types of roads say etj roads where they

00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:55.840
 might be bar ditch or something else will will impact environmental costs and remediation costs

00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:01.200
 so i know that was a lot but it it all circles around what are the vmt's and what are the

00:51:01.200 --> 00:51:09.040
 associated costs environmental and economic of the vmt's so i was gonna try to answer the

00:51:09.040 --> 00:51:16.480
 environmental side so with the environmental costs we did consider what you've just talked about the

00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:21.680
 vehicle miles travel the impact of it and doing that whole stormwater infrastructure that will

00:51:21.680 --> 00:51:30.480
 be needed and now i'll let um on the physical impact portion um i guess it was separated from

00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:38.160
 the the environmental and they did a separate portion to put that into the overall analysis

00:51:38.160 --> 00:51:45.680
 so with the physical impact yes the um not specifically vmt but essentially the road

00:51:45.680 --> 00:51:53.760
 ways were uh impacted as far as the lane miles and so the for the various scenarios that went on

00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:59.840
 we adjusted the lane miles which then adjusted that and took into account the vmt and the road

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:05.840
 in the traffic and it also not only is just the lane miles that are increased but the type of road

00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:12.240
 whether it's going to be asphalt or concrete so those two combinations had an impact on that

00:52:12.240 --> 00:52:19.280
 particular uh model used by the city in order to uh bring in a lot of the issues that you're

00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:25.440
 talking about as far as vmt as far as traffic and those are portions that go into that particular

00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:33.600
 impact model okay first time questions anyone else before we go back around seeing none okay

00:52:33.600 --> 00:52:43.040
 um i think travis you had as succinctly as possible and then um vicki and councilor walsh yeah i guess

00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:47.840
 i got two questions so the first one is kind of relating to uh mr brian back here said um so

00:52:48.640 --> 00:52:55.360
 when we talk about this movement of a vehicle vehicles and stuff we has anybody studied the

00:52:55.360 --> 00:53:00.000
 impact that this is going to have on the inner city of denton in terms of we've got all these

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:05.920
 allocated money that's going to be going to this area granted i as a as a neighbor of northeast

00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:11.600
 denton when i go wanting the village type feel i go into downtown right because that's exactly

00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:16.560
 what it is when i talk to people about this the question becomes why even go downtown anymore

00:53:17.200 --> 00:53:23.520
 if there's a village place right there so has anybody studied the impact of not infilling

00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:30.640
 downtown but rather moving that stuff that makes downtown unique outward toward us what impact

00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:40.960
 is that going to have on downtown that's my first question but i'll wait again well i'll take i'll

00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:47.840
 take staff so it's outside it's a question about outside the area right uh and so i'll however you

00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:53.840
 want to address that as population grows so too will be those those centers that we need to have

00:53:53.840 --> 00:54:00.240
 so we reduce traffic by virtue of having different city centers if you will um where those where those

00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:05.840
 people can congregate or go do what it is that they're doing so i i think it's i think it's

00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:11.520
 somewhat in the equation shy and we are collaborating with the consultant who's doing your downtown

00:54:11.520 --> 00:54:18.240
 redevelopment plan anyways so some of these ideas we're gonna make sure that we're not recommending

00:54:18.240 --> 00:54:23.520
 something in one part of your city that the other part of the city is going to get damaged by so we

00:54:23.520 --> 00:54:30.960
 are collaborating and downtown will have a very distinct special vibe it definitely will not be

00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:40.160
 the rural village center it will probably end up being more vibrant and more intense okay shy can

00:54:40.160 --> 00:54:49.680
 you please put up slide 31 do i need the mic yes so i just want to this is a clarifying comment

00:54:49.680 --> 00:54:58.400
 no sorry it was one of the other ones that showed the um the higher density the orange and the yellow

00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:07.040
 but you had the numbers listed in the traffic analysis so i want to just point out south first

00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:15.040
 off heartley field road is a county maintained road except for at the very end down here that's

00:55:15.040 --> 00:55:24.080
 number one number two this is existing i'm sorry this is existing neighborhood in here anything

00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:32.000
 west of ferris is existing neighborhood i happen to be as i mentioned i'm on a was on a seven acre

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:41.120
 parcel and i replatted and my restrictions because we were on septic and a well means one house per

00:55:41.120 --> 00:55:48.960
 two acres all of the this neighborhood anything west of ferris is all under those restrictions

00:55:49.520 --> 00:55:57.200
 so when you talk about raising the count west of ferris to 13 000 trips by the way calculated at

00:55:57.200 --> 00:56:04.000
 the rates that the city has come up with that's seven thousand additional homes outside of the

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.800
 existing neighborhoods so unless you're going to mow those down i don't know how we're fitting

00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:16.080
 seven thousand homes and in this little area but no there are restrictions because we're on septics

00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:26.000
 and wells so may i answer that one sir so what we've done is in business as usual we actually

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:33.600
 didn't take into account the houses that are existing in that area south of heartley we assumed

00:56:33.600 --> 00:56:42.160
 five acres only five acres one lot per five acres kind of as you can see that's the existing homes

00:56:42.160 --> 00:56:51.760
 plus one lot for five acres that is all we did in the balancing act we actually counted the homes

00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:58.480
 that were already there looked at the undeveloped property for example there is reed property that

00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:09.520
 is completely vacant undeveloped on the other side of cooper but there is a empty property so what we

00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:15.280
 did was we took into account we counted those lots that are existing the homes that are existing

00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:21.920
 then we counted the acreage that was blank and then we put the density we're talking about on

00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:29.280
 that acreage so that's together that's what we got but you're putting a ton of houses on a small

00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:34.560
 the reeds area is not that big okay so i'm assuming they're they're mapped it's a standard

00:57:34.560 --> 00:57:39.760
 equation you can by all means so if you can write down or jot down a follow-up with the size of the

00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:45.040
 acreage and the and the algorithm or the formula and then you can you can punch that number those

00:57:45.040 --> 00:57:56.480
 numbers okay so councilman watts yeah and i think for clarification on the acreage for a septic or

00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:02.400
 a water well i think that's a county and a state red the city doesn't regulate that so i just have

00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:09.760
 a question of clarification these are the two plans right the business as usual options and so

00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:18.480
 i want to make sure that i'm looking at this right the only difference that i see in these two are

00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:26.320
 primarily right here everything else looks about the same when if you if you were to make these

00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:36.720
 colors orange so this right here is the same this area this area is the same this area is not so

00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:46.880
 but this area is the same am i so we're really talking about as far as the plan either as usual

00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:54.000
 or with a balancing taking in development into consideration we're talking about this area here

00:58:55.120 --> 00:59:01.920
 and then these areas up here is that am i reading that right yes sir okay do you know how many acres

00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:08.160
 these comprise yes we actually have it somewhere we do i don't have it off the top but i have it on

00:59:08.160 --> 00:59:15.760
 my spreadsheet i can okay and as a follow-up are all of these areas in the city or some of

00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:23.600
 them in the county so north of heartley field is in the city um are you talking about where it says

00:59:23.600 --> 00:59:34.640
 12 110 or 105 12 110 and 1162 okay so this is in the city the 13 328 and 27 750 is in the county

00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:40.560
 and as i talked about before the reason those numbers are higher is because the city has no

00:59:40.560 --> 00:59:47.360
 influence on the density that goes there so we assumed that people would build according to what

00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:52.400
 the market demand is a very important point because on the city council and well planning zoning

00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:58.080
 doesn't have to deal with it on city council we are approached all the time with muds and with

00:59:58.080 --> 01:00:05.440
 mnds that are in the county and i think it's pretty clear to say we have very little if zero folks

01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:11.120
 zero regulation ability over those areas so it doesn't matter what we do here it doesn't matter

01:00:11.120 --> 01:00:16.400
 what we do here on this plan because it's going to that's not going to affect this right here

01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:21.840
 because we have no say this area right here because this is in the county so this is in the city

01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:27.840
 what about the 14 185 i'm assuming that's in the county because the number is so high

01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:35.280
 no that one is in this this is right around it hot well what number is it yes okay so this

01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:41.360
 is in the county which is this line here okay and what about up here how many acreage here

01:00:42.160 --> 01:00:52.320
 in the city the seven three one one twelve three seven seven and sixteen thousand that's in the city limits so these

01:00:52.320 --> 01:01:01.920
 three along the highway yes along 428 yes all right so i'm just going to say this isn't ready

01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:11.360
 for city council vote we we spent a year on 6 000 acres off i-35 talking about physical impact

01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:16.000
 talking about things such as that there's no way i'm not voting on either one of these

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:23.600
 because there's no way there's enough information to understand what's going on here i mean it's

01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:32.000
 just it's crazy so i think we need to we need to this is the first time the city council has seen

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.400
 this and i know a couple council members have been involved in this process which is disappointing

01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:44.000
 because i would think that given the the importance of this item to the community both the people in

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:50.960
 the city and the people in the county we are asked as policymakers in a two-hour meeting

01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:55.840
 to decide this that's that's nothing

01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:07.040
 because because if i had to vote if i had to vote today i would vote on the balancing act

01:02:07.040 --> 01:02:14.000
 because that's what i can control and in fact if these people really i mean i don't i'm telling

01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:21.600
 you all you got to do is look out 380 heading west we've got 7 000 homes going out there in

01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:26.320
 the etj we cannot control at all and you know where they're going to come start looking next

01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:32.880
 so we've got to figure out a way to do this right and this isn't it and paul maybe you know having

01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:37.920
 some time to petition to see hey if there's some property owners in here and folks i would say i'm

01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.840
 number one on private property rights and to say that this body is going to make a decision in two

01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:51.600
 hours on something that's affecting now we're only saying we got 3,400 acres or 3,900 acres in the

01:02:51.600 --> 01:02:57.600
 city i bet you when you consider this acreage it's probably not a whole lot of that that's the

01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:03.440
 differences in the plan i'm talking about we're all getting all been out of shape and trying to

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:09.520
 figure all this out for these small areas when everything else is the same and unfortunately

01:03:09.520 --> 01:03:14.560
 the people who are in the county that have the most at stake that want this to see us this go

01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:23.440
 through even if we voted for the businesses you guess what somebody could come in and plop down

01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:30.160
 a mud two or three muds with about 7,000 homes or 8,000 homes right in this area this is for you all

01:03:30.160 --> 01:03:36.480
 it's a county issue and a state legislative issue because not only did the mayor did the governor

01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:43.600
 sign in a billion dollars for wildlife the governor also signed that people in the etj

01:03:43.600 --> 01:03:52.960
 a lot of y'all out there can vote to opt out of the city etj so this isn't ready folks

01:03:53.520 --> 01:03:58.160
 and i think if we move forward on this this is irresponsible because we do not have enough

01:03:58.160 --> 01:04:05.120
 information because if we have to vote well if i have to vote i'm going with the balancing act

01:04:05.120 --> 01:04:10.240
 because isn't that what we try to do is balance interest because we can do nothing about the 13

01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:20.080
 328 and all these the the other ones so this this isn't ready and so i just that's my input

01:04:21.040 --> 01:04:25.600
 any other questions before i go back to you for a third time give me a second anyone else

01:04:25.600 --> 01:04:30.000
 i have a quick question about the roads uh just one second let him bring you the microphone

01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:40.560
 in your name i'm sorry uh yeah those that are online are not able to hear unless we use the

01:04:40.560 --> 01:04:50.160
 microphone uh i'm ben hocamp i'm on the steering committee on slide 40 i believe uh the roads

01:04:51.040 --> 01:04:59.280
 quick question in the plan um so the only difference uh looking at the southern portion

01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:06.400
 is the connector between collins and cooper creek but are we to understand that hartley field road

01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:13.440
 would be redesigned in the same way regardless of the plan or would that also be affected so

01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:21.520
 currently on the city's uh existing thoroughfare plan uh what hardly field road shows it's gonna

01:05:21.520 --> 01:05:28.480
 stay that way because it is a county road what we are doing here and i've been trying to hit it

01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:36.640
 from the beginning is we are showing it in case the property owners in the county want to annex

01:05:36.640 --> 01:05:43.920
 that's the only reason the areas in the county are colored or the streets that our county owned

01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:50.640
 are shown or we're showing streets in the county is if they want to annex if it the land comes into

01:05:50.640 --> 01:05:57.120
 the city limit then the city would have an idea and a plan and they will be prepared to know that

01:05:57.120 --> 01:06:05.200
 this is what they're gonna have to spend today none of this in the county area is getting designed or

01:06:05.200 --> 01:06:13.440
 is getting built or nothing is happening or can happen whether people ask for it or not yes sir

01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:19.520
 oh i'm a mayor thank you very much thank you mayor pro tem and then uh council member gee all right

01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:35.920
 so i had two questions um on the sort of i'm trying to understand the the way we

01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:41.840
 we designed the the model and looked at the impacts um the business impacts from the model

01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:47.840
 the so i'm could i get a little more clarity on how the open space calculations were

01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:51.760
 were done if you if you have a parcel in a residential parcel

01:06:53.920 --> 01:07:01.920
 is the entire parcel taken off off of the model as is not an open space even though the vertical

01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:09.600
 structures would be some 20 or whatever of a five acre parcel um i mean so that's i'm confused on

01:07:09.600 --> 01:07:14.640
 this how is the open space calculation done and and then maybe i'll take that and then ask my

01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:22.720
 second question so the way we looked at it is not parcel by parcel we we didn't that's not

01:07:23.520 --> 01:07:30.080
 there's not enough time to do that what we did was took an area and on that area we laid out like we

01:07:30.080 --> 01:07:41.600
 did the probably okay let me go back here you know how we created a little rough layout so that's what

01:07:41.600 --> 01:07:47.120
 we did as we looked at bigger areas we looked at what the layout would be we looked at the acres

01:07:47.120 --> 01:07:54.080
 that we would keep open and how many units ended up fitting in there we had we looked at lane miles

01:07:54.080 --> 01:08:00.480
 that would be needed to build that type of development and it's all assumptions so it is

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:06.240
 logical assumptions but they're all based on assumptions but but just to follow up the

01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:15.120
 assumption on a residential region is is that that no longer counts as open space yes sir so if we

01:08:15.120 --> 01:08:22.480
 were going to do five acre lots we took the whole area laid it out in five acre lots and looked at

01:08:22.480 --> 01:08:27.520
 the street that would be needed to get to how many lots that would be the street calculation

01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:33.120
 and rest of it all becomes private property no opens yeah i think that's not a good model going

01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:37.760
 forward because somebody on a five-acre parcel is not building five acres of vertical structure

01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:43.600
 so and in fact some of our highest conservation properties are represented in the room with lots

01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:50.160
 of tree canopy and they have a little house one one when we say open space we're talking publicly

01:08:50.160 --> 01:08:58.160
 accessible open space so if it is a private lot it is not public open space so city will have no

01:08:58.160 --> 01:09:05.280
 control over it whereas when we laid it out we're counting publicly accessible open space so yes

01:09:05.280 --> 01:09:09.200
 that's that's that's fair i think that's a probably a different consideration than the

01:09:09.200 --> 01:09:16.320
 environmental impact but anyway on on the the business model side when we did the fiscal impact

01:09:16.320 --> 01:09:22.160
 and tried to assess the difference in the in the various models did we take into account the types

01:09:22.160 --> 01:09:29.040
 of business practices that would go on so like if we've got the new rodeo and and new facilities

01:09:29.040 --> 01:09:34.800
 supporting the new rodeo and equestrian and agricultural areas that are related to sort of

01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:43.600
 a more rural type business agribusiness model environment versus the the kind of mn small model

01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:49.440
 retail i mean how how fine grain was the business model did you take a differential impact when you

01:09:49.440 --> 01:09:57.120
 looked at the the the change in one versus the other go ahead and stay there again well they can't

01:09:57.120 --> 01:10:02.880
 hear you online we can hear you in the room but yeah thank you very much my apologies for those

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:10.000
 online to answer your question yes sir there are differentiations made for the various types of

01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:16.640
 business types to include agricultural there's a great deal of breakout as far as if it is going

01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:27.920
 to be some type of retail and within the model there was a way to kind of designate if it was

01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:34.720
 going to be a mixed use and to put in there the combination of retail and multifamily and

01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:40.560
 some offices if need be so to answer your question yes there are differentiations made in the in the

01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:47.280
 background of the model it was a pull down device we would say this portion is going to be retail

01:10:47.280 --> 01:10:52.720
 this portion is going to be such and such there's even if you look down at the bottom that's along

01:10:53.440 --> 01:11:00.480
 us 380 we even included those portions that were going to be industrial and designated them for

01:11:00.480 --> 01:11:07.920
 kind of the industrial as there that's more warehouse okay real brief follow-up but again

01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:15.520
 that was that was just the model for the 4,000 out of the 8,500 acres it wasn't the the regional

01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:20.240
 impact of these different business models for someone going out to a restaurant from downtown

01:11:20.240 --> 01:11:25.120
 or from the region or someone going to an equestrian park from another nearby region

01:11:25.120 --> 01:11:33.440
 it was just the 8,500 acres right correct it was a fiscal impact which is the model saying

01:11:33.440 --> 01:11:41.280
 if we put this type of business here this is going to be the impact to the municipality what they

01:11:41.280 --> 01:11:50.080
 expect to get into various revenues and how much more cost is going to that I believe and correct me

01:11:50.080 --> 01:11:55.120
 if wrong what you're actually talking about is an economic impact so if we put this business here

01:11:55.120 --> 01:12:00.400
 what are going to be the secondary and tertiary effects in order to build more businesses and

01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:07.520
 additional revenues and if we put a plant out here if you go down the load will the cleaners

01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:11.840
 get additional money and I should speak out of cleaners because that's my dad's job my dad's

01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:19.120
 business real quick yes that's that's I'm asking that sort of economic model and the larger impact

01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:25.040
 on the entire community for this particular study sir we did not do the economic impact model

01:12:25.040 --> 01:12:27.280
 okay

01:12:34.400 --> 01:12:39.600
 thank you Mr. Mayor first off Madam City Manager I want to thank you for doing the work to bring

01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:46.160
 all the stakeholders and various groups together I just want to say publicly just as this body has

01:12:46.160 --> 01:12:52.000
 now begun more regular meetings with our partners like DISD I would encourage us this is the time

01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:56.320
 where we should be reaching out to our county partners and try to have a joint meeting setup

01:12:56.320 --> 01:13:01.280
 between us and our county commission our county judge given that they meet on the same day it

01:13:01.280 --> 01:13:05.120
 might be an opportunity for us to have some collaboration because I'm going to agree with

01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:10.800
 Councilmember Watts I really don't want to have to make this decision today only because I would

01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:16.240
 really like to know what the county's thoughts are while we don't it is true we don't have any say of

01:13:16.240 --> 01:13:21.680
 course an ETJ1 it would be helpful for us just to know the general direction that they are thinking

01:13:21.680 --> 01:13:26.400
 things might want to go so just uh just a plug for more collaboration between a different body

01:13:26.400 --> 01:13:30.160
 so much as time will allow and they would be permitting to do it with us

01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:36.880
 thank you sir just a quick clarification for everybody around the table today we're not asking

01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:44.640
 you to vote on anything at all we're just asking for direction on which which scenario would you do

01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:52.640
 you seem to like that we should go develop some recommendations and implementation and go look into

01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:59.680
 in more detail than you all asked for Councilmember you mentioned you need a lot more detail we just

01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:06.960
 need to know which scenario would you like us to look more into detail about and and I'll and I'll

01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:14.960
 piggyback on that um Scott McDonald director of development services HDR has put in roughly 500

01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:23.520
 hours into this project already um staff has put equally as much time in a variety of ways

01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:30.720
 and if we're going to go further or longer we're going to need additional funds to carry this

01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:38.240
 forward most importantly we're looking for a path we're not looking for a vote today we're looking

01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:44.880
 for a path from our policymakers if they have a preference on a path to go how would you establish

01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:52.480
 that path and as we go through this process we can address what needs to occur or if we need to

01:14:52.480 --> 01:14:59.920
 modify either of these paths so i.e. we're looking for additional information so council can send us

01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:07.920
 on path a or path b we'd like to go down whichever path and we'd like some additional information

01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:15.040
 brought back to us in the next couple of weeks via work session or through an isr or some other

01:15:15.040 --> 01:15:20.800
 function to provide that information as far as including the county we have a county representative

01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:28.640
 my counterpart Stephen Belknap is is in regular communication with with his his folks at the county

01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:33.040
 not to say that we couldn't put together another joint meeting or something similar if they're even

01:15:33.040 --> 01:15:40.080
 amenable i don't know but truly all we're looking for from city council today is do we have a path

01:15:40.080 --> 01:15:46.880
 to continue down and if not then ultimately i'm looking for whether we're going to continue this

01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:53.600
 process i'm going to have to have some funding to be able to do that thank you mayor well just make

01:15:53.600 --> 01:16:01.840
 it easy council member and then i i'll take it thank you for the opportunity and i also want to

01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:08.000
 thank all the players involved in this it's just such a it's a wonderful thing to see that we are

01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:14.000
 grasping our growth i'll pretty much consider the city of bidden like a teenager trying to figure it

01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:20.640
 out and so we've come to a crossroads now this is a very big project uh but keeping that in mind

01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:28.400
 i it i i would like to see us take the uh the balancing act uh and work with that

01:16:28.400 --> 01:16:34.720
 uh i know that there's a lot of opposition to that but i also want to comment to say that we are

01:16:34.720 --> 01:16:42.560
 talking about the future we're talking about 10 15 20 30 years from now and there's a good chance

01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:48.160
 i probably won't be around about 30 years from now but i know that we will have to leave a legacy

01:16:48.160 --> 01:16:53.440
 for the people that are coming up behind us we did recognize that a number of these people there was

01:16:53.440 --> 01:16:59.200
 a chart that showed us the age gap of the folks that we are going to have to make this work for

01:16:59.200 --> 01:17:05.360
 and i need to think we need to keep that in mind we like what we like i don't want anybody living

01:17:05.360 --> 01:17:11.600
 behind me i don't want richards on the either side of me i don't want my neighbors to move away i want

01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:17.600
 to keep everything just the same but i know that that is not going to be my future because that's

01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:22.160
 what happened to me my neighborhood doesn't look like the way that they used to and i had to grasp

01:17:22.160 --> 01:17:28.800
 that so i want us to be mindful of that that we're not talking about ourselves we're talking about

01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:35.840
 the future of us probably a generation and another generation behind that so um i for one if i were

01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:41.680
 to say that we were to go which is what you all are asking for right now i would definitely point

01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:51.600
 us towards the balancing act thank you okay thank you uh so i have uh my questions are these uh and

01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:57.360
 staff provided these in the answers so i'll just kind of glance over them for for speed sake so uh

01:17:57.360 --> 01:18:05.360
 line so that those tracking along and forgive me uh 21 ish i might be off my eyes uh so average how

01:18:05.360 --> 01:18:11.120
 home cost staff analysis staff's analysis based on association realtors four hundred sixty thousand

01:18:11.120 --> 01:18:17.360
 dollars average amount uh deposit that you need is is twenty thousand dollars that makes a down

01:18:17.360 --> 01:18:24.720
 payment if my math is wrong forgive me ninety two thousand dollars uh and so my my just a a comment

01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:31.760
 is this my concern is and i've heard the the neighborhood and and in the in those that are

01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:38.640
 interested and i take note of it but i do want to note that the consequences of those discussions

01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:45.280
 if if we don't want multifamily in this area then you end up with an area of

01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:52.080
 people that have one hundred thousand dollars to put down on a deposit and they can afford a half

01:18:52.080 --> 01:18:58.320
 million dollar home uh and and so that's just what we're talking about however many hundreds of acres

01:18:58.320 --> 01:19:03.600
 of people that only have one hundred thousand dollars and only can afford half million dollar

01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:09.920
 homes at least uh because that's the it gets later and staff talks about the cost of land

01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:14.800
 and for um they estimate ninety thousand to one hundred twenty thousand dollars per acre

01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:20.560
 so if you're going to buy five acres that's a little over half million dollars so half million

01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:25.040
 dollars in the land half million dollar home let's say you pay to build it it's less than that it's

01:19:25.040 --> 01:19:32.640
 not full uh market rate but a million dollars um is what we're talking about we want in the north

01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:38.640
 part of town million dollar homeowners only uh and so that's that's just the results of the request

01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:44.240
 and so as i that will i process through that information there's there's nothing to that that's

01:19:44.240 --> 01:19:49.760
 the the numbers are the numbers um but i when it comes to questions staff do you have the slides

01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:55.760
 can since someone pulls up from the pictures i i sent in

01:19:55.760 --> 01:20:08.560
 okay i i purposely picked these out for those that don't know this is west lake area that's

01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:16.080
 fidelity investment it's a corporate office um one is google maps one i took myself but

01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:22.480
 that's a parking garage absolutely surrounded by trees

01:20:22.480 --> 01:20:29.040
 that's a corporate headquarters one of the largest finance institutions

01:20:29.040 --> 01:20:38.880
 in in the world absolutely surrounded by trees and water so i absolutely believe that these can

01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:44.240
 things can be done well and they can be planned appropriately and they can be sensitive to their

01:20:44.240 --> 01:20:50.560
 environment you i mean you tell me the engineering to drop that that parking space in between those

01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:58.560
 trees seamlessly not one disturbed it is absolutely impressive and i and i that's what inspires me

01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:04.880
 that we can do things well in this area and preserve all those uh requirements and another

01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:10.400
 thing that i noted and i asked staff to look at and i forget what number it's number 41 on your

01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:16.320
 spreadsheet is they i asked them about the gay lord texan and just rough math dallas there you go

01:21:16.320 --> 01:21:23.680
 thank you very much dallas business journal notes that gay lord texan makes 10.24 million dollars a

01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:31.440
 year for uh the city of grapevine their their um conventions generate a little more than 21 million

01:21:31.440 --> 01:21:39.440
 dollars per year dropped in right on the lake environmentally sensitive area uh and you can't

01:21:39.440 --> 01:21:45.600
 see it from the state highway again another example of how things can be done well and we

01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:51.520
 can balance uh the approach of development you won't find another convention center hotel that's

01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:56.800
 busier and you absolutely don't know what's there if you're driving by uh and you don't even know

01:21:56.800 --> 01:22:03.280
 what if you're driving halfway down the um driveway and it's next to one of our critical lakes in the

01:22:03.280 --> 01:22:08.480
 area so obviously they had to be diligent about their their planning that sort of thing so thank

01:22:08.480 --> 01:22:14.640
 you very much for those so i i believe it can be done well and the just real quick to touch on um

01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:20.320
 a couple of things i want to i want to note as i go into the 2040 plan because i we received a

01:22:20.320 --> 01:22:24.160
 lot of communication about that so i want to make sure i understand that well uh and that'll inform

01:22:24.160 --> 01:22:29.360
 my decision i want to make sure we're from the same basis everyone's seen south ridge area here

01:22:29.360 --> 01:22:39.760
 in denton are familiar understand those houses in that area is zoned r2 or r3 so great larger lots

01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:44.960
 than most of the city it's not five acres it's not one acre some of them are but by and large

01:22:44.960 --> 01:22:51.680
 it's it's zoned r2 r3 and it is one of the most scenic areas in the city of denton and built out

01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:58.400
 so um and there's million dollar homes in there as well but it's it's also uh there's homes in the

01:22:58.400 --> 01:23:03.600
 in the half million dollar range but just say for a static again just another example of how we can

01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:14.560
 do this right so if i don't know scott maybe it's you that answers um questions about the

01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:23.280
 2040 plan who answers those is that you a number of us can absolutely okay so so here's here's

01:23:23.280 --> 01:23:29.120
 one so low res as i looked on the on the 2040 plan because people said follow the plan i look

01:23:29.120 --> 01:23:33.680
 under the low res definition that's two dash 19 i don't know what i forget what page it's on

01:23:33.680 --> 01:23:41.040
 but at the very bottom it says density up to five dwelling units per acre is that that's in the plan

01:23:41.040 --> 01:23:51.600
 i can pull up the page if is it so yeah low res is that exactly up to five dwelling units per acre

01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:58.000
 that's an accurate statement yes and that's in the 2040 plan that's correct so i got an email

01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:03.680
 that said follow the 2040 plan and i recommended five houses per acre i'm in line with the plan

01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:11.920
 under that future land use designation yes okay thank you very much and then uh also the

01:24:11.920 --> 01:24:18.320
 who can speak to the state highways i asked that question as well but i want the entire room to

01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:27.040
 kind of that's number 29 can you speak to the the planned state highways we have our transportation

01:24:27.040 --> 01:24:42.080
 expert here if you could go over the plan like the planned expansions in this general area so

01:24:42.080 --> 01:24:50.480
 that would be 428 the loop etc so as right now there was a public meeting i believe last week

01:24:50.480 --> 01:24:58.560
 for state loop 288 in a connection from 288 to three and as well as 380 so right now they're

01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:03.120
 looking at doing it what's called a limited access facility along 288 and making a high speed

01:25:03.120 --> 01:25:09.280
 connection to 380 that basically bisects that industrial section as shown here on the map

01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:14.400
 as far as the outer loop that you know that's a joint partnership between the county and text dot

01:25:14.400 --> 01:25:17.600
 looking at doing a limited access facility that basically connects the

01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:25.200
 outer ring and that's part of a larger regional project as far as called the outer loop and then

01:25:25.200 --> 01:25:32.240
 as far as 428 as of today as far as utp in the step the improvement plans there are no improvements

01:25:32.240 --> 01:25:37.280
 on that corridor and that's currently funded or identified as funding but i think through this

01:25:37.280 --> 01:25:42.080
 mobility plan we recognize that it likely needs to be a primary arterial with six lanes

01:25:42.080 --> 01:25:53.920
 okay so six lanes just on the that would be the western border of this plan okay got it

01:25:54.720 --> 01:26:08.720
 and then back to the 2040 plan what number seven of the 10 principles of the building of healthy

01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:14.800
 places as follows again 2040 plan and our and i quote mix it up is the title and it says a variety

01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:20.000
 of land uses building types public spaces can improve both physically active and social interaction

01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:25.760
 with with the necessitates update updating and regulation of the standards and that's what we're

01:26:25.760 --> 01:26:29.360
 having that's what we're talking about today updating the standards and regulations so that

01:26:29.360 --> 01:26:38.800
 we can and that's in line with the 2040 plan am i right yes sir okay great um and then i don't know

01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:45.120
 i have the quote here but i don't have it earmarked so i'll just say also in the 2040 plan it talks

01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:51.680
 about spreading out and and someone can correct me it if i'm wrong it talks about spreading out the

01:26:51.680 --> 01:26:55.760
 open spaces throughout the city and advises against

01:26:55.760 --> 01:27:04.800
 what's the word grouping too many open spaces in one area but talks about dividing it across

01:27:04.800 --> 01:27:09.840
 the city am i right that's right you want to balance you know the lane uses in one of those

01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:16.080
 land uses open space okay right thank you very much uh so that's what i mean i'll continue to

01:27:16.080 --> 01:27:23.680
 listen i'm i'm happy to have more information i'm happy to give uh direction uh once we're done as

01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:29.360
 far as where i fall uh but i i i just wanted to touch on those things that i i received the emails

01:27:29.360 --> 01:27:35.200
 i did not have time to reply to all of them but they it did direct me to the 2040 plan and i

01:27:35.200 --> 01:27:41.680
 researched the 2040 plan to make sure uh my suggestions are in line with the request and

01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:47.680
 it just happens to work out that way and based on examples i gave i i don't think it's a zero sum

01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:54.640
 game i think we can treat this area with the sensitivity it deserves and deliver an outstanding

01:27:54.640 --> 01:28:03.280
 product uh for our community that then uh helps our our our uh residents and it helps us have a

01:28:03.280 --> 01:28:08.880
 diverse housing stock so that people that don't can't afford one million dollars can live in

01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:15.040
 north denton i i don't want to do that to the exclusion of 90 of the city of denton all right

01:28:15.040 --> 01:28:20.800
 thank you mayor um i know we don't have a vote in direction but i'll just kind of

01:28:20.800 --> 01:28:28.240
 say i guess a few opinions that i have for you policymakers who are going to um send this a

01:28:28.240 --> 01:28:35.200
 direction um not taking development into consideration is exactly the reason you need

01:28:35.200 --> 01:28:43.280
 an area plan in my opinion um so by trying to do business as usual this seems like a

01:28:43.280 --> 01:28:52.320
 catastrophic waste of time um so i would urge you to there's a lot of holes here as as councilman

01:28:52.320 --> 01:28:57.600
 watts pointed out there's so much we don't know there's so much i'm not even sure we can do the

01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:04.560
 area plan as i think a lot of us envision because of the fact that a majority of this land is not

01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:12.720
 city-owned land and we have very little to say about its development but what i would say again

01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:18.560
 is if we're going to go forward with trying to make an area plan i think you have to take

01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:28.160
 development pressure into account and and directionally in my opinion would be we've

01:29:28.160 --> 01:29:33.840
 got to fill in a lot of these questions that we don't have on on the maps that you provided is

01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:42.160
 what is city land where exactly is that what is county line just better better staged on a map

01:29:42.160 --> 01:29:48.720
 than it looks right now um at any rate my two cents would be is you do have to consider development

01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:54.160
 pressures that's the whole reason that we want an area plan because it's here it's on the back door

01:29:54.160 --> 01:30:01.600
 it's coming it's knocking if we don't set a plan in place we're going to get what we just are

01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:10.960
 constantly fighting so um commissioners commissioner smith did have um his hand up earlier so i'm going

01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:22.880
 to pass the mic that way thank you yeah i want to echo uh commissioner alice and council member

01:30:22.880 --> 01:30:27.840
 watts's points on the fact that the county pressure that we do have here is one of the key

01:30:27.840 --> 01:30:33.840
 reasons why even from the work day that we had uh that the discussion was along the lines of that's

01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:40.560
 great great plans uh and some some really good input from the community but there's only so much

01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:45.760
 we can do with that county land there the only point i would have uh with giving no voted

01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:52.880
 direction whatsoever to council but the only thing i would ask for is as presentations come back and

01:30:52.880 --> 01:31:00.800
 the future path is to specifically identify the zoning levels that would be within rural residential

01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:06.640
 or in the uh the the residential transitional areas within there even in just in the balancing

01:31:06.640 --> 01:31:15.120
 act for two versus the business as usual you have a wide disparity between one acre per one unit per

01:31:15.120 --> 01:31:21.360
 five acres all the way down to in the balancing act it was one unit per two acres or three units

01:31:21.360 --> 01:31:27.280
 per acre and there was some wide varying between those so having some more homogeneity some

01:31:27.280 --> 01:31:32.720
 standards relating it back to what we would see in our in our zoning laws as this continues and

01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:38.800
 gets to get more refined and i don't think that that was omitted uh or or forgotten about i think

01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:44.480
 just that this is a 30 000 full level view and as we continue to move from 30 000 down to 15 start

01:31:44.480 --> 01:31:49.680
 getting more specific start incorporating the ddc that we see on planning and zoning the city council

01:31:49.680 --> 01:31:55.200
 sees more into the plan as this comes in uh and then i want to echo commissioner alice's point that

01:31:55.200 --> 01:32:00.960
 i would love to be able to see a very clear map that has city county differentiated between there

01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:08.720
 so so if you look on the screens here that that dotted line is showing you where the city and the

01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:15.280
 county is with the layout but i can make it darker and send it to you all so for sure

01:32:15.280 --> 01:32:26.880
 on top of this map without the roadways we just to say in a plan that the level of zoning information

01:32:26.880 --> 01:32:35.840
 you're asking what we usually do is recommend that this area can have a certain type of density

01:32:35.840 --> 01:32:43.120
 very generally it's it's not gonna what you're asking for is a complete different project

01:32:43.120 --> 01:32:48.160
 and i would love to do it if but it's not at this time yes sir

01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:57.280
 current zoning is what the request is for is what areas have current zoning today so

01:32:57.280 --> 01:33:05.360
 we can address yes we can we can definitely we've considered it thank you mayor i'm going to try to

01:33:05.360 --> 01:33:10.800
 learn from chair alice as well although that i've been trying to for two years and not a bunch has

01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:17.680
 soaked in um and just offer some general comments um not really direction but things to think about

01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:22.880
 as we move forward with either of these plans um as denton doubles in population over the next 20

01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:31.600
 years or however long it's going to be um you know we will become fiscally solvent if most of

01:33:31.600 --> 01:33:36.880
 that development activity occurs near our core where we already have existing infrastructure

01:33:36.880 --> 01:33:45.200
 services etc um so you know in general for that reason i kind of like that model and i think the

01:33:45.200 --> 01:33:51.760
 the comp plan supports that however we will expand and when that happens we also must make sure that

01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:57.200
 everything is fiscally solvent as we develop it but that solvency can be achieved either by

01:33:57.200 --> 01:34:04.640
 increasing the development intensity to meet the infrastructure we plan to put in or by looking at

01:34:04.640 --> 01:34:10.400
 other types of infrastructure that can be sustained by that development right it's it's not true that

01:34:10.400 --> 01:34:16.880
 i want everything to be dense i just want everything to pay for itself um you know i

01:34:16.880 --> 01:34:23.440
 i really kind of like the this rural village concept um i think it gives a diversity of housing

01:34:23.440 --> 01:34:32.320
 options um that that you know people of different means can afford to live uh in in an area near the

01:34:32.320 --> 01:34:36.880
 fringe where you have close by access to these assets that we're talking about that everybody

01:34:36.880 --> 01:34:43.760
 loves um there are some specific problems i think that could be solved in implementation and that's

01:34:43.760 --> 01:34:49.200
 primarily um you know collins road right now doesn't cross over i don't know if we have any

01:34:49.200 --> 01:34:58.640
 friendly uprr people here or not um and um you know whatever plan happens for that wherever it is

01:34:58.640 --> 01:35:07.920
 if it's incorporated uh would need to be able to be realized in a in a development method that's

01:35:07.920 --> 01:35:13.920
 not your typical oh one person is amassing 230 acres and they're going to build it all at once

01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:17.840
 because there's just too much partialization here so there's some detail that needs to be go there

01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:26.800
 as we go further further north right uh near the um future outer loop and that sort of thing does

01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:33.200
 does that type of thing make sense um i i guess it makes more sense from a environmental and

01:35:33.200 --> 01:35:40.800
 fiscal perspective than 50 acre parking lots and huge nebraska furniture marts um but to be honest

01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:46.000
 it also kind of looks like hey tex dot is going to subsidize us by building this

01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:50.480
 two billion dollar road and so this is what we're going to put up and we're sort of letting them

01:35:50.480 --> 01:35:57.920
 determine our land use um so it's it's a rock and a hard place on that one um and then finally the

01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:04.640
 the one thing that i'm really nervous about is on the south southwestern area of the plan really

01:36:04.640 --> 01:36:11.760
 just because i haven't seen a proposal to uh explain how we're going to phase the infrastructure

01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:18.560
 to be consistent with the built environment's ability to to sustain it long term i'm nervous

01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:24.720
 about adding additional transitional areas uh because typically when that's done we we don't

01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:31.040
 phase the infrastructure we we put in top class curb and gutter and everything so uh hope that

01:36:31.040 --> 01:36:43.920
 helps thank you okay anyone else okay we'll go um travis then councilman melzer and mayor pro tem

01:36:43.920 --> 01:36:49.120
 and it is we do have a hard side because we have a regular council meeting starts at two uh so i'm

01:36:49.120 --> 01:36:52.960
 willing to go a little over one but we have we have to have time to get across i just wanted to

01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:56.880
 reiterate one thing that we've kind of talked about a lot is that business as usual was never

01:36:56.880 --> 01:37:02.160
 our plan it was never our term it was never anything that we advocated for we have always

01:37:02.160 --> 01:37:07.440
 advocated for keeping in the 2040 plan there's always been what the neighborhood with the large

01:37:07.440 --> 01:37:11.600
 vast majority of the committee has advocated for so i just want to say that that's a bit of a

01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:17.600
 misnomer that that is something that we've ever advocated for on top of that um just so we're

01:37:17.600 --> 01:37:22.240
 understanding we've talked about um all these emails that came in that we're talking about 2040

01:37:22.240 --> 01:37:29.440
 plan and then so we talked about having five homes per acre so my understanding that this committee

01:37:29.440 --> 01:37:35.840
 that the city council is going to recommend and hold to that five houses an acre because that is

01:37:35.840 --> 01:37:41.840
 not what's being planned north of harley field road right so that i mean if we if we want to hold

01:37:41.840 --> 01:37:46.960
 ourselves to that 2040 and i know it seems like you are we is that what we're recommending five

01:37:46.960 --> 01:37:52.000
 homes an acre right that's what the 2040 plan is so are we going to hold people to that if we're

01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:57.440
 going to say that that is not what it's currently so but but but i have other things to say real

01:37:57.440 --> 01:38:04.720
 quick um because i've got a lot ned's not here so i have to talk for him um i think my other

01:38:04.720 --> 01:38:12.960
 question is in the 2040 plan there's a lot of talk about conservation it's rural conservation

01:38:12.960 --> 01:38:23.520
 is mentioned in here 61 times out of the land that is not watershed area that we would be very

01:38:23.520 --> 01:38:30.320
 difficult to build on financially difficult how much of that land are you guys advocating for

01:38:30.320 --> 01:38:37.680
 conserving not not not not not i'm going to put a parking lot and trees around it right can anybody

01:38:37.680 --> 01:38:44.160
 name some any of the endangered species that visit this area can you name one just one

01:38:44.160 --> 01:38:53.440
 so well and is there a plan to conserve land for that there are bald eagles that come here there

01:38:53.440 --> 01:39:00.960
 are freshwater otters and i understand um this is just your question right so i want to i want to

01:39:00.960 --> 01:39:05.680
 use this time to get you the answers but i gotta have your question all right so my question is are

01:39:05.680 --> 01:39:10.640
 we willing one question are we willing to hold people to five houses an acre as you said within

01:39:10.640 --> 01:39:15.280
 the 2040 plan that that's the discussion we're going to have today yes okay so that's one

01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:22.960
 question second question how much land developable land are we committing to conserving so at this

01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:28.880
 point this is just a concept once you tell us which direction you want to go then we're going

01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:36.480
 to work on those details for either either scenario you will we have to do that calculation it's going

01:39:36.480 --> 01:39:42.320
 to be different depending on what development types you're putting on that property what land

01:39:42.320 --> 01:39:47.600
 you're going to preserve or how much land you're going to preserve those calculations to do that

01:39:47.600 --> 01:39:52.640
 we need to know which direction you want us to go in so that's why we're here asking would you say

01:39:52.640 --> 01:40:03.360
 that business is beautiful as business as usual with modifications or balancing act with modifications

01:40:03.360 --> 01:40:09.120
 or whatever which one of those in your mind would conserve more land she she they don't have they'll

01:40:09.120 --> 01:40:14.480
 have to do the calculations that was our answer the first time so and then we'll go to councilmember

01:40:14.480 --> 01:40:29.120
 melzer thank you a couple of in the in the way of giving direction a couple points of clarification

01:40:29.120 --> 01:40:34.080
 i was actually in the group during the i think it was called the visioning session that sat about

01:40:34.080 --> 01:40:42.400
 this part of the room that introduced the idea of village but it was understood to be a way to create

01:40:43.200 --> 01:40:49.680
 more preserved open space and more five acre zoning the intention wasn't you know yeah have

01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:55.360
 traditional tract housing and village and consider that you know more preservation that that's not the

01:40:55.360 --> 01:41:02.640
 case so you know i perceive balancing act to be saying do the most vertical construction of the

01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:13.200
 varying types which was not the intention so you know i would be i'd be very interested in a view

01:41:13.200 --> 01:41:22.080
 that had that rural center as a trade-off for the maximum percentage of conservation we haven't

01:41:22.080 --> 01:41:33.360
 heard what the acreage is that having been said i perceive a bit of creeping conviction we put

01:41:33.360 --> 01:41:41.520
 500 hours into this we've involved so many people we're so far down the path but that can't keep you

01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:51.120
 from going to a better answer if it's presented so i'm interested in developing also with slides so

01:41:51.120 --> 01:41:59.040
 it will seem as real to you as these two what hartley field state park will look like maybe

01:41:59.040 --> 01:42:03.840
 maybe it can happen maybe someday you'll say you know gee there are only a few of us who expressed

01:42:03.840 --> 01:42:08.880
 anything about it but now we're taking our families to enjoy it now in 20 and 30 years

01:42:08.880 --> 01:42:15.840
 that's our heritage that we in that we have hartley field state park so let's shape that up

01:42:17.440 --> 01:42:25.200
 thank you and then mayor pro tem sorry one more point just one more point on that

01:42:25.200 --> 01:42:33.920
 if that comes to pass that becomes state administered state land it doesn't decrease

01:42:33.920 --> 01:42:40.320
 the ability of the city to spread open space on city-owned property it increases it

01:42:40.320 --> 01:42:47.280
 because it doesn't require our funding to do it okay but bear with me i just need to track along

01:42:47.840 --> 01:42:51.920
 and then mayor pro tem with your indulgence she she wants to speak so right next to her and then

01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:56.880
 we'll run it up to you what land are you talking about who owns the land that you're talking about

01:42:56.880 --> 01:43:02.880
 that you would you've identified for a state park who owns it i don't think it's entirely up to me

01:43:02.880 --> 01:43:07.520
 to do all the work of the planning right no doubt but you've spoken about uh you you have this idea

01:43:07.520 --> 01:43:15.920
 i just want to know what what so some of it's etj that's why that's why the virtue of going to

01:43:15.920 --> 01:43:22.400
 state you know becomes relevant because you know we look at a land at a map where you know a lot

01:43:22.400 --> 01:43:27.040
 of what we would like to be open space is not under city control so that's the whole point of

01:43:27.040 --> 01:43:34.000
 going to state but it's it's basically the maximum amount of the undeveloped land you know a year ago

01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:40.560
 i learned but i'm just i don't want to i don't want to lengthen the comment i'm just asking

01:43:41.200 --> 01:43:46.320
 because they had the landowners up there and so i'm just asking you who owns the property that

01:43:46.320 --> 01:43:50.160
 you're referring to so that i can i just want to note that so i can track along with you

01:43:50.160 --> 01:43:59.680
 okay orion thank you okay that's fine but i will point out that a year ago i learned that

01:43:59.680 --> 01:44:09.120
 the amount of land that's come under development plans in the prior six years is greater than the

01:44:09.120 --> 01:44:14.640
 amount of undeveloped land that's left so this is a disappearing heritage so if we don't act to

01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:22.000
 preserve land like this we're going to be out of options very soon okay right it was uh yeah and

01:44:22.000 --> 01:44:27.600
 then we'll come back to mayor portu hello i'm susan smith on the steering committee as a city

01:44:27.600 --> 01:44:34.480
 resident and i just have one comment to make to reiterate what chris said and i think what paul's

01:44:34.480 --> 01:44:40.640
 saying is that i don't really feel like we're ready to decide on either one of these options

01:44:40.640 --> 01:44:47.200
 today because i don't really agree with either one of them i think the business as usual is a

01:44:47.200 --> 01:44:54.960
 misnomer we never indicated that we want no development in our neighborhood group we absolutely

01:44:54.960 --> 01:45:01.120
 expect some development but just the right kind of development that follows the 2040 plan and the

01:45:01.120 --> 01:45:06.960
 vision statement however we may interpret that and i think that's what people are trying to come up

01:45:06.960 --> 01:45:15.200
 with good solutions for and keep everybody happy we know there'll be development the balancing act

01:45:15.200 --> 01:45:22.880
 as it stands to me looks a little heavy in areas like heartley field road i i would like to keep

01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:30.640
 that as a county road i also think it seems a little heavy up by the elm bottom circle area in

01:45:31.440 --> 01:45:40.160
 some of the density that's there so i really think that we need modifications on either side

01:45:40.160 --> 01:45:48.960
 whatever we decide but i'm very pro keeping to the 2040 plan and the vision statement that we

01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:54.000
 developed i think everybody put a lot of work into that and i agree with it so however we come up with

01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:59.760
 that i just really don't think we're there yet thank you and while you're walking around scott i

01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:05.280
 do have a i need an understanding uh county county road who decides when that's developed

01:46:05.280 --> 01:46:14.240
 um it's it's a county road so i right so does the city have a if the developer is developing

01:46:14.240 --> 01:46:22.720
 and it's going to require something addition to that then yes but is that a county in a developer

01:46:22.720 --> 01:46:27.600
 conversation or is a city invited to that conversation it may be a county and city

01:46:27.600 --> 01:46:32.720
 it may be a county and the developer it may be the city and the developer if again if the if

01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:38.000
 the property's in the county it's it's a county developer got it okay thank you mayor pertin

01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:47.680
 thank you all um yeah i think the naming of our options has set a tone that i think is very very

01:46:47.680 --> 01:46:57.280
 unfortunate um i think oh over two years ago the neighborhood came to the region with development

01:46:57.280 --> 01:47:05.120
 concepts that were developmental um they they were not um leave it in place uh change nothing

01:47:05.120 --> 01:47:12.080
 they were this is this is what the neighborhood has sort of collaboratively worked on and the

01:47:12.080 --> 01:47:17.760
 task that we gave them was community developed community based the words community were first

01:47:17.760 --> 01:47:27.760
 and foremost first and foremost in um in the mission and goals that we gave them uh and the

01:47:27.760 --> 01:47:37.280
 by and large uh the leaders of the of the steering committee um have you know communicated with us

01:47:37.280 --> 01:47:42.080
 both through the steering committee as an individuals the neighborhood has communicated there that there

01:47:42.080 --> 01:47:50.800
 is a room and desire and and understanding of the growth potential of this region um and so i think

01:47:50.800 --> 01:47:58.240
 again it's it's unfortunate that we chose business as usual versus balancing act um you know those

01:47:58.240 --> 01:48:04.560
 those names are you're not going to be able to convince me that that doesn't bias the conversation

01:48:04.560 --> 01:48:12.160
 that we had today so i find those those names unfortunate a couple of things that you you heard

01:48:12.160 --> 01:48:23.600
 from members of the the stakeholder community is is a way to increase usage of and main but while

01:48:23.600 --> 01:48:29.040
 preserving which is in our 2040 plan the newest edition the the preferred land map preservation

01:48:30.000 --> 01:48:35.280
 and so you know that there is development with preservation that that that that is what the

01:48:35.280 --> 01:48:42.080
 community came to the area is and and i agree with those who have said that what we have here is

01:48:42.080 --> 01:48:51.520
 sort of an incomplete product of two disparate uh strategies where there it's not balancing act

01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:58.240
 versus business as usual it is it is two viewpoints that don't even represent the viewpoints

01:48:58.240 --> 01:49:03.920
 of the the primary proponents of those viewpoints so we have not gotten to a place of consensus

01:49:03.920 --> 01:49:10.720
 and we don't we have not even gotten to a place of consensus with our regional partners as well

01:49:10.720 --> 01:49:18.080
 there is um the the the the where i'm going with this is the the mobility plans are are coming

01:49:18.080 --> 01:49:23.600
 through and they will absolutely change and so that's going to have to be incorporated and

01:49:23.600 --> 01:49:29.760
 yet they really weren't nothing we were really presented with today addressed those mobility

01:49:29.760 --> 01:49:35.840
 plan changes and and i'm particularly not talking about the fact that there will be uh 428 and the

01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:42.320
 outer loop and the 380 expansion across 288 but the fact that all those proposed changes will

01:49:42.320 --> 01:49:49.840
 require right of way changes that there is currently not space for at least close to the

01:49:49.840 --> 01:49:54.480
 city and definitely out as you get towards core of engineer lands there's simply not right of

01:49:54.480 --> 01:50:00.720
 way space and if you do you're taking it out of these landowners properties for what finally the

01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:06.320
 final point i want to bring in is in our comp plan we try really hard to get away from what we did

01:50:06.320 --> 01:50:12.960
 decades ago just strip zoning and leapfrog zoning and the balancing act is a leapfrog zoning approach

01:50:12.960 --> 01:50:20.480
 where we're leaping over an area now is it the fault that there's a donut hole in in an etj

01:50:20.480 --> 01:50:26.720
 donut hole yes it is the fault that we have sort of a pseudo leapfrog happening there where we've

01:50:26.720 --> 01:50:33.120
 left a uh a big use gap and then we're trying to leap into other uh usages that don't really

01:50:33.120 --> 01:50:39.120
 transitionally align but then also i will point out as my final comment and and the reason i'm

01:50:39.120 --> 01:50:51.760
 giving direction of business as usual with modifications is is that that donut hole itself

01:50:51.760 --> 01:50:58.560
 if it was so easy to drop a mud in there or an mmd or develop that as a 50-story high rise or

01:50:58.560 --> 01:51:03.840
 a cement batch plant it would be there and there is one cement batch plant and otherwise there's

01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:09.120
 homes if it was that easy if the economic pressures were there to make that happen it would have

01:51:09.120 --> 01:51:15.520
 happened already all right so i my direction is is uh is not for the balancing act but for the

01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:20.320
 other now this is for staff though i would ask you to what would how would you summarize that

01:51:20.320 --> 01:51:25.120
 though if you have to put it in one line in one word or a summary or a phrase you don't like

01:51:25.120 --> 01:51:33.120
 balancing act or business as usual what do you like you you you mean for my direction or the name

01:51:33.120 --> 01:51:37.040
 of yeah i'm just saying if staff's going to come back with something and you don't you take issue

01:51:37.040 --> 01:51:42.480
 with what they write your right to do so but i think if you ever you're going to have a challenge

01:51:42.480 --> 01:51:46.240
 or something you should have a solution that that's very fair and so but it's it's easy to

01:51:46.240 --> 01:51:51.520
 come up with a solution where you say something like uh you know lower density in development or

01:51:51.520 --> 01:51:56.160
 something like that where you are expressing a characteristic of the feature of the development

01:51:56.160 --> 01:52:04.480
 and not assessing um so lower density development and what else um balancing act which which would

01:52:04.480 --> 01:52:10.720
 be uh i don't know something more like on the realm of you're forcing me to yeah and i'm saying

01:52:10.720 --> 01:52:16.000
 you know staff have the same challenge right so i want to be fair to them and and and just i

01:52:16.000 --> 01:52:20.560
 understand you don't like the terminology but i just want to choose a similar characteristic

01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:26.320
 i'm not going to you know i'm going to say something like you could say um high density mixed use or

01:52:26.320 --> 01:52:33.440
 something like that thank you wanted to compare them thank you uh is there anyone else seeing none

01:52:33.440 --> 01:52:39.120
 i i guess mayor just again i don't know that we have clear direction so i'm just looking for what

01:52:39.120 --> 01:52:46.560
 it is staff is to do going forward yeah no we we um we don't and we're gonna we're gonna have to go

01:52:46.560 --> 01:52:52.640
 because we have a two two o'clock and so we have to have time to transition everyone and so um i i

01:52:52.640 --> 01:52:59.440
 mean i can't i'll open the floor for comments you asked the last couple no i i have not not yet but

01:52:59.440 --> 01:53:07.040
 we'll go to uh commissioner villaral and then we'll we'll wrap up and we'll roll call council

01:53:07.040 --> 01:53:15.120
 members is that yes thank you and i'm okay if we call it a and b right thank you so uh just going

01:53:15.120 --> 01:53:20.160
 back to the conversation that council member watts brought up earlier i was wondering if we were going

01:53:20.160 --> 01:53:27.280
 to do a more thorough process what differences would you like to see us do in that in that process

01:53:27.280 --> 01:53:32.720
 what changes would you like to see what are you looking for in a more thorough thorough plan

01:53:32.720 --> 01:53:40.640
 and and i will say that we can take that guidance that's given to us uh it can get put into writing

01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:46.160
 and then we can submit it to the committee mayor okay yeah so what do you want to see is the in the

01:53:46.160 --> 01:53:50.560
 in the plan in the future or more detail that's the that's just a general question we'll put it

01:53:50.560 --> 01:53:56.320
 out there i have council member bird that expressed an interest in in a in the balanced approach as

01:53:56.320 --> 01:54:03.520
 staffs name it option a and b right so let's let's not yeah so a is a is on the left right is on the

01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:12.080
 is b simple thing so um councilman bird has expressed an interest for item b uh mayor

01:54:12.080 --> 01:54:20.160
 pardon me pardon me thank you uh council and then mayor pro tem has an option for a preference for

01:54:20.160 --> 01:54:28.000
 option a and i need to hear from the others i'm happy to call you our own councilman melzer is

01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:38.560
 expressed a pro uh preference for option a uh councilman holla option b b b no oh no

01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:45.360
 well well no no no no i understand i just i the what's before says a or b i'll just put you as

01:54:45.360 --> 01:54:51.920
 undecided that's great no no let's keep it moving uh okay uh and then

01:54:58.320 --> 01:55:01.360
 i think my questions can get answered in the process so i'm going to go with the b

01:55:01.360 --> 01:55:06.960
 okay uh councilman mcgee

01:55:06.960 --> 01:55:11.760
 option b

01:55:11.760 --> 01:55:20.400
 okay mayor hutzpeth is is here's my i'm a b with modifications i don't want to i don't want to

01:55:20.400 --> 01:55:25.600
 discuss the upper part i think that i take uh mayor pro tem's point and i take the conversations

01:55:25.600 --> 01:55:31.360
 we've had and that's too far for projection and we're not going to do anything up there any any

01:55:31.360 --> 01:55:39.280
 time soon i so it's b with the exception of we're going to zero in on uh the right up to the green

01:55:39.280 --> 01:55:47.920
 space there one and then two it with the caveat that that are whatever that is r4 is by plan uh

01:55:47.920 --> 01:55:55.120
 or r or r6 with different shapes and different uses if you have commercial uses i think you can

01:55:55.120 --> 01:56:03.920
 get to uh r6 um and it looked like r4 on the ground and meet the expectations and so

01:56:03.920 --> 01:56:13.440
 suffice to say 2040 plan low density allows for five houses per acre however that's calculated

01:56:15.760 --> 01:56:26.560
 no no no no that's not is it wrong is it so remember low densities up to five dwelling

01:56:26.560 --> 01:56:33.760
 units per acre actually net whatever that total acreage is no low density not rural low density

01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:43.840
 the 10 2040 okay all right yeah the other thing that that were mentioned by some of the

01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:49.440
 uh committee members that we want to make sure we're very clear on is a very clean and clear map

01:56:49.440 --> 01:56:55.840
 to delineate between city land and county land map out the development authority on each so you know

01:56:55.840 --> 01:57:02.560
 which one's county which one city and then show current zoning and zoning levels so that you can

01:57:02.560 --> 01:57:08.000
 show very clearly county land zoning levels city land zoning level what is currently zoned as not

01:57:08.000 --> 01:57:12.800
 necessarily what it could be and and then the development authority a little note to say here's

01:57:12.800 --> 01:57:17.760
 the development authority under the county here's the development authority under the city and it's

01:57:17.760 --> 01:57:24.800
 important to note scott correct me if i'm wrong nothing is going to be developed here without

01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:33.360
 intense conversations and meetings and all those things so nothing happens but for everyone having

01:57:33.360 --> 01:57:38.000
 an opportunity to be heard correct this was an opportunity for everyone to be heard to get some

01:57:38.000 --> 01:57:43.680
 general direction from council on which direction for us to go and we'll continue to work through

01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:49.280
 this and and ultimately i hear in this is is really the option b with some modification so there are

01:57:49.280 --> 01:57:54.160
 any number of things that we'll be bringing back to council to ask for their direction and we'll

01:57:54.160 --> 01:57:59.840
 just start drilling down or distilling this more each time we visit right but there's no plan that's

01:57:59.840 --> 01:58:06.080
 in in queue that's some stage of that's benefited by this conversation nothing no nothing absolutely

01:58:06.080 --> 01:58:14.640
 not perfect okay uh right here the zoning maps that everyone's asking they are in a powerpoint

01:58:14.640 --> 01:58:20.400
 for student committee number two meeting it's on the website and all these detailed plans are

01:58:20.400 --> 01:58:25.280
 in that uh powerpoint can we get it out to the council members as well we will we will we will

01:58:25.280 --> 01:58:30.480
 make the new new drawings better but before that if someone wanted to go home and see it i just

01:58:30.480 --> 01:58:35.600
 wanted everyone to know and give that to me again it's the steering committee meeting too

01:58:35.600 --> 01:58:37.200
 yes may 30th meeting

01:58:37.200 --> 01:58:49.840
 got it and it's in its um undiscussed intent got it thank you take a look

01:58:49.840 --> 01:58:57.200
 okay very good uh so at uh well i'll let you conclude then i'll conclude uh thank you everyone

01:58:57.200 --> 01:59:03.120
 for time um thanks commissioners for showing up this afternoon i appreciate it i'll adjourn

01:59:03.120 --> 01:59:10.960
 our joint meeting at 108 and i would conclude the city council's meeting at 108 as well thank you