WEBVTT

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 and begin so if you can call you your respective meetings to order okay uh today is tuesday august

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 first 2023 it is 11.09 a.m and we have a forum so i'll call the city council portion of the meeting

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 order and with the forum present on the planning and zoning commission i will call our meetings

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 okay so we only have one thing on our agenda today uh just to set the staff will do it as

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 well but it's a gather input from all parties then we will uh the council will make a recommendation

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 but want to make sure we have a good conversation around that decisions so with that first items

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 item a id 231193 receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding draft scenarios

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 for the northeast end area plan thank you mayor tina fergens i'm the deputy director of development

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 services so again as the mayor mentioned the goal for today is to have a collective discussion

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 amongst the commission and the steering committee and council but ultimately we do need to receive

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 policy direction from city council since they requested us to be able to do this project and

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 they customarily provide policy direction for the city um ultimately our goal coming out of the

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 meeting today is to receive direction regarding one of the two scenarios that is being presented

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 and hence where we need your feedback we do request that um so shy ruse with hdr is on the

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 consultant team that the city has retained to assist us with this project so i do ask that the

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 group um allow her to get through the various sections of her presentation we've got some breaks

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 programmed in to allow for some opportunities for question and clarification but really our goal is

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 to get to the proposed scenarios um so that we can have the discussion there and receive that

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 feedback if we start to go down a rabbit trail on a particular item let's make note of what that is

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 we can always come back at the end of the meeting time permitting and with that uh mayor chair ellis

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 if you do not have any questions of our team i'm going to go ahead and turn it over to shy

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 yeah i would like predicate though and so if it's a question that you can't note without a question

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 and to the presenter by all means otherwise just note your question we'll come back to it but if

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 it's something that is absolutely critical that hey i can't formulate my question and else i know

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 that please get my attention let's address those but other than that we're going to try to it just

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 be impossible the questions will take over so all right thank you yes thank you so

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 thank you tina and um good morning everyone and again thank you all so much for your time today

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 we'll move on to our slide here i'd especially like to thank the council appointed 15 members

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 steering committee that has been instrumental in guiding the project team to get the project to

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 this stage so jumping to the project overview part the background part here the northeast

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 denton area plan is a result of the 2040 comprehensive plan recommendation to study this area in further

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 detail in april of 2022 the city council directed staff to proceed with preparation of a community

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 community-based vision for the northeast denton area the key purpose of this area plan was to

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 respond effectively and efficiently to the developments that are being proposed in this

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 area and the resulting concerns raised by the community related to land use traffic open space

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 and the lack of environmental protection in the area so this area is bounded by clear creek to the

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 east us 380 to the south loop 288 and fm 428 to the west and to the north by e sherman or the future

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 the future outer loop so the one one thing to know about this area though is out of this

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 8500 acre study area only about 47 percent is in the city limits and the majority which is over 53

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 percent is in the outside and not outside the city's jurisdiction so the biggest challenge for any

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 planning effort in this area is that the city can only influence development on 47 percent of this

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 study area unless the property owners choose to annex into the city so this plan shows in the

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 slides in the next you'll see that this plan shows recommendations for future land use

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 in the etj area which is in the county sphere of influence only so that the city will be prepared

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 in case these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the future

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 therefore when you see land use or policy ideas that are outside city limits please keep in mind

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 that at this time the city cannot ensure that these ideas or proposed uses will happen so

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 in addition to addressing the development the purpose of this plan is also to ensure an inclusive

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 community dialogue to develop a collective vision for the future of the area to identify areas of

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 change or areas of preservation and to develop some ideas for future improvements and to make

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 recommendations about the capital improvements to meet this collective vision of the community

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 here's a quick look at the timeline for the planning process we spent january through april

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 in the area collecting data researching and engaging the community we presented our findings

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 it doesn't point my apologies we presented these findings to the steering committee in may

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 and also worked with the steering committee to finalize a draft of the vision statement

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 at this meeting and we spent the summer developing two scenarios their options

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 and both of which reflect the vision statement once we have direction from you on which scenario

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 to use we will incorporate your feedback into our recommendations and then spend the next three

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 months getting community input in various settings like an open house online and public public

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 hearings the anticipated adoption date for this plan is november of 2023 so as mentioned we engaged

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 the community for four months the goal was to involve and to understand the vision the desires

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 the challenges of all stakeholders of the northeast area the current residents as well as the

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 stakeholders like business owners property owners that don't reside in the area visitors workforce

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 and even future residents of this area with this in mind we started with stakeholder interviews with

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 25 people then for the community at large we conducted two in-person visioning workshops

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 and an online survey 265 people attended the in-person workshop 44 people took the online

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 survey we then conducted a strategic foresight workshop with 39 participants that ranged across

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 all age groups professional backgrounds and interests in northeast denton and so on

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 a detailed description of the community engagement events and the results are posted online on

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 discuss denton under the project link so if the participants total participants 201 provided their

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 addresses we've mapped these here for you of these 201 overall 89 were city residents 112 were county

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 residents out of those 201 participants 140 people lived in the northeast denton area plan

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 study area and of those part of our participants living in the study area 43 live within the city

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 limits and 97 live in the county so in summary in the stakeholder interviews we heard that elected

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 officials wanted this plan to manage expectations residents wanted to keep the zoning as is meaning

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 five acre minimum lots preserve green space preserve small town rural environment and

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 developers wanted some higher density with in to allow the preservation of open space or to be

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 allowed to build according to market demand everyone agreed that respecting and preserving

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 the natural environment of northeast denton is important here we see what some of the summary of

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 what we the themes that we saw coming out of the visioning workshop and these themes are preserving

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 natural field preserving green spaces maintaining rural area limiting construction keeping the area

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 affordable enhancing outdoor activities and making the area walkable we also held the strategic

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 foresight workshop where we asked the participants to consider future trends and imagine potential

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 scenarios for the year 2050 so during the workshop again the consensus was on preserving and

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 celebrating the natural environment the majority asked for no more apartments but not all stakeholders

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 were against apartments in fact a diversity of housing and live work environment but in a rural

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 setting were popular among the majority of the participants and the scenarios we we took the

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 vision statement generated at this workshop and conducted an online voting we received 123 responses

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 of these 69 responses voted for the vision statement developed by the friends of northeast

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 denton we presented this to the steering committee and the committee modified some of the words and

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 phrases what you see here is the steering committee recommendation i won't read the whole

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 statement but as you can see we've highlighted the central themes of this vision statement

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 environmental preservation rural character conservation development and an area that

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 is valued and enjoyed by all of dentin so keeping these main themes in mind we started our existing

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 conditions analysis with natural systems so the purpose of the map to the left shows you the

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 existing floodplain on the map to the right you can see that there are creeks and channels in the

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 area that are not fema designated however these still function like the land in the floodplain

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 in our environmentally fragile areas that should be cared for similar to the land designated in

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 the floodplain as we've seen in the northeast denton area itself any development whether it's

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 agriculture or five acre lots or higher density it all requires repairing restoring preservation

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 and or enhancement strategies if we want to preserve a natural environment or natural systems

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 so we studied these five types of environmentally sensitive areas designated by the city of denton

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 and the existing ecosystems to understand areas needing repair and restoration due to the impacts

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 of existing development and lack of maintenance and the areas needing preservation

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 and the areas where enhanced interventions could mitigate the impacts of future developments

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 we wanted to determine the strategies that would be needed depending upon the type of development

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 so we then also analyze conditions that may impact the future of this area as you can see

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 on this map growth is moving not just towards dentin but also towards northeast dentin specifically

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 the thoroughfare plan here shows northeast dentin study area bounded on all sides by major existing

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 or proposed regional thoroughfares making it easily accessible to the rest of the region

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 with two major universities a lively downtown eclectic music and art scene and a unique vibe

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 denton's popularity as a place to live is only going to increase and thereby bring more development

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 to the northeast dentin area large parcel developments large parcels of undeveloped land

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 under single ownership in the study area will be instrumental in shaping the future of this area

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 but as you can see on this map only only properties labeled one five six and seven

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 are in the city limits with property labeled five being city owned parkland all the rest of the large

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 properties are in the etj and outside city's ability to influence any future development

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 on this land unless these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the

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 future a summary of the developable land analysis shows 3,300 acres or 45 percent of the land area

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 is protected flood zone and parkland but there is still 3,000 acres or 30 percent of the study area

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 that is undeveloped surrounded by well-connected existing future transportation network directly

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 in the path of development especially coming west along us 380 from mckinney to aubrey to denton

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 there is also 24 percent of developed land that can always be redeveloped and again all of this

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 the city can only influence development on about 47 percent of this area

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 next we'll uh i'm sorry yeah next we looked at the demographics that will influence the future

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 development the largest population as you can see on this slide especially in the study area

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 is gen gen z which is people aged between eight six and 25 in the northeast denton study area

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 57 population is under the age of 40 and citywide over 60 of the population is under the age of 40

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 we also looked at workforce in the area as you can see 1361 people come into this area daily

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 and that is before counting the employment that will be created from the new warehouse and

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 industrial developments along mingle road these workers are also people who might look

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 to move to northeast denton to be closer to their jobs these are some of the factors to consider

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 address and balance alongside the community input to choose the future scenario for the northeast

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 denton for the project team to develop further so before we continue um we'll open it up for any

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 questions up until this point if you all have um okay question of clarification to make sure you

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 yeah i'm sorry so shea sorry vicki mcgovern i'm a part of the steering committee i'm part of the

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 etj so shea you had mentioned that the city has no um say if you will in anything in the etj and

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 i just want to clarify the question is there not a collaboration at all between the county and the

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 city that's that's point one number two i will say that i recently as being part of the etj

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 replatted my land of seven acres and i was oversaw seen if you will by the city so there is some level

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 of influence because i had to go through the city to get that replat done so i just want for the

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 broader spectrum to know that there is some level and i'd like clarity on the collaboration of that

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 sure and that's a that's a question we'll come back to certainly thank you uh i've noted it staff's

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 noted it we will councilman watts yeah just just a couple of data questions um i'll try to go

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 backwards so that i remember on the slide that shows the developmental area i think it was slide

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 24 to 30 percent and all that we can go back to that i just want to understand from my own

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 it's got the little high graph i'm sorry i'm trying to go back circle a little

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 right there uh is that just the acreage within the city limit boundaries of the plan is that

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 the total plan i'm sorry could you repeat that sure are the acreage uh numbers represented on

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 this slide based upon the 8500 acres of the plan or the just the city portion 8500 acres sir

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 do you know what the breakdown is for the city land that's in the plan for that slide

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 not off the top of my head but i can definitely calculate it by the end sure uh there's just a

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 couple more mayor sorry um let's see uh on the floodplain on the slide that shows the floodplain

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 and the acreage associated with it you said there's so many acres in the floodplain

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 and now i'm okay just so that i understand any acreage calculations moving forward in the

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 presentation are based upon the 8500 there's nothing that says hey here's what's in the city

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 floodplain here's what's in the etj or county floodplain is that okay so then on the floodplain

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 so if i could get that as well that breakdown if we could on what floodplain is in the city

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 and what designated floodplain by fema and so then total not when you say the total number of acres

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 in the floodplain is that representing the acreage that's designated by fema plus the acreage you say

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 quote unquote functions as a floodplain no only the acreage designated by fema is calculated in the

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 floodplain okay all right uh let's see uh i think that i've got other questions but they're more

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 substantive questions or not okay so then my understanding is the the acreage of the

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 largest landowners it's in the city portion where those four landowners one five six one five six

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 seven and that totaled up 1538 acres when you add those up and then you're saying how much of the

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 plan is in the city is was it four thousand or 3800 or 47 percent of 8500 approximately here or

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 there okay all right thank you mayor appreciate it yeah and i'm sorry i can't see you that's that

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 yeah i just got also equal kind of clarification on data so when you said the average home is low

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 three hundredths are those new homes in the area or those existing homes in the area i heard the

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 number new cost cost on homes is low three hundreds

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 yeah i'm just asking this because i can't find a home of under three hundred and ninety thousand

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 dollars in the area anyway in the area in that area so i'm just kind of qualifying when we talk

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 about affordability on homes and you say low 300 i'm not finding anything under 390 in that area

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 that's new right and we're talking about new development oh okay that was from stakeholder

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 interviews my apologies so in the stakeholder interviews that is what the developers had

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 presented is what the starter home is at okay i did they qualify where they were looking at

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 i was told in denton a starter home is considered three hundred thousand is what the ideal is that

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 not really narrowed down and then secondly um i think there's some just just disconnect

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 between how many people voted for the options other than the seven proposed vision statements

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 um if i i i recall correctly there were 189 other votes aside from the seven proposed vision

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 statements i just want to kind of clarify because you said that there were 70 or whatever it was

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 that were specifically copy and pasted from what we proposed but i understand there was a significant

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 other amount that modified that i just want to make sure that we're aware that it was substantially

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 larger amount of people that voted for anything other than the seven i will need to go back and

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 double check how many because my data that i did look at for this presentation i had 123 total

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 people that responded to it so i will double check where the 189 numbers come from and i'll

00:23:31.760 --> 00:23:47.040
 get back to you that's okay okay go right ahead yes at the end that that i've noted it but i don't

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 i don't know that there's an answer we can give you that would then inform other questions it's

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 just a question generally uh for the for the group but in summary and i've noted all of them and

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 noticed i didn't answer any of them because uh we're gonna let her finish but i i hope that

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 the information provided helps people jot down their questions for the end of presentation that's

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 my goal okay so looking at uh both scenarios that are being presented today meet the vision

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 statement they both prioritize um environmental preservation they both honor the rural character

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 of the area and both recommend conservation development that protects open space and green

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 ways and both strive to establish northeast denton as a special area for all of dentin to enjoy so

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 without further ado the two scenarios are business as usual and balancing act the business as usual

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 scenario is based on just the community desire without accounting for the development the

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 balancing act scenario is based on community desire while accounting for the future developments

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 we developed a set of character areas and roadway cross-sections that would be compatible with the

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 vision statement as well as serve the needs of the proposed and anticipated types of future

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 developments as again as i mentioned previously an important point to keep in mind is that while

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 we show land uses and roadway recommendations in the etj outside the city limits this is just

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 aspirational and in case property owners wish to annex otherwise the city has no jurisdiction to

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 ensure that these land uses and densities are in fact followed i'll describe the character areas

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 and then come back so you can relate the colors on the map to the character areas better

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 oh geez so the green on the maps is meant for the conservation or the natural areas for

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 environmental protection as well as for recreation areas and then the yellow is rural residential

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 two to five acre lots the orange is residential transition an area about three to five dwelling

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 units per acre overall density but with some neighborhood retail and large public open space

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 is to transition the high intensity uses into the rural residential and then the dark lime

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 which you'll see at the intersection of mingo and collins road is a rural village center this

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 area is envisioned as a mix of residential and commercial uses in one or two story buildings

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 with a rural village feel main main street style setting and this land use we want to let you know

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 we've shown it in this area but it could be used as a transition between residential and residential

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 transition in other areas as appropriate these three character areas gateway town center and

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 industrial were developed to respond to some of the existing and anticipated future developments

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 based on regional transportation improvements in the area the purpose of these character areas

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 is to provide development guidelines to ensure preservation and enhancement of natural areas

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 while accommodating the grocery stores and retail the community wanted as you can see in this town

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 center image at the bottom providing higher density on a smaller land area can allow for

00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:48.640
 preservation of larger open spaces so coming back to the scenarios first business as usual

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:57.040
 under business as usual most of the study area is designated as rural residential this is regardless

00:27:57.040 --> 00:28:05.200
 of the future plans for expansion of 428 or into a six lane thoroughfare and the construction of

00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:12.800
 outer loop north along sherman in in addition to the rural residential business as usual provides

00:28:12.800 --> 00:28:22.720
 for residential transition and industrial on the southern edges to us 380 and loop 288 next looking

00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:29.440
 at the balancing act the balancing act scenario considers market impact of these regional thoroughfares

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:39.440
 yeah that second to the right is the balancing act and this one considers in addition to the

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.880
 regional thoroughfares it does consider current and future younger demographics in this study

00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:54.160
 area and citywide so north of bottom circle you can see on the map here and adjacent to the outer

00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:02.400
 loop and fm 428 these areas have been designated for gateway and town center uses residential

00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:09.360
 transition is proposed just south of these higher intensity uses with rural residential

00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:16.960
 and conservation areas to protect the natural environment in this scenario the area between

00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:28.800
 fm 428 loop 288 and ferrish road the orange area to the west of sorry the rural residential

00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:35.600
 this has been designated as residential transition in this scenario this reflects some of the existing

00:29:35.600 --> 00:29:43.120
 developments in this area and it also is a means to balance the development and preservation

00:29:43.120 --> 00:29:51.280
 by allowing for more density but with larger public open spaces we hope that this will both

00:29:51.280 --> 00:29:58.160
 protect the rural residential and the natural environment in the to the east in addition this

00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:05.760
 also keeps the cost of infrastructure cost of new infrastructure lower by allowing for new development

00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:13.920
 to happen where the existing infrastructure is the next few slides are just examples to help everyone

00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:20.240
 envision what residential transition areas and the rural residential could look like and how these

00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:27.440
 character areas relate to the vision statement so the red shows you where this site plan has

00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:35.600
 been considered or some ideas of this site plan if you stand in on collins there's a little

00:30:35.600 --> 00:30:41.280
 directional map up there showing where the person standing and the view looking out towards rural

00:30:41.280 --> 00:30:49.760
 residential again there's a little map showing where the view is looking towards the park

00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:56.320
 you can see these are all one or two story buildings this one is standing at the edge

00:30:56.320 --> 00:31:05.120
 looking towards the industrial and then on this one it's up on the north where on one side you're

00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:11.600
 looking out into rural residential seeing some of the residential transition and then looking into

00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:22.720
 your more mixed use type from one location so going forward we assume densities for each

00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:28.800
 scenario and calculated rough estimates of the traffic counts these are definitely not traffic

00:31:28.800 --> 00:31:35.520
 impact analysis level trip generation but have only been developed to give us an idea about the

00:31:35.520 --> 00:31:43.520
 cross-section street cross-sections that would be needed for both people and cars to navigate the

00:31:43.520 --> 00:31:50.720
 area safely in the future the one thing i'd like to point out in this is that while the land use

00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:59.760
 shown in the etj south of heartley field is the same in both scenarios if you can see the 3460

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:09.600
 and on the other it is 27750 so this is because in the balancing act scenario we counted existing

00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:18.640
 lots and houses and then assume market densities similar to the current development applications

00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:25.600
 that the city's been receiving from the developers for the rest of the area so we added the two

00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:32.240
 and the thought here was that while the city can deny these applications in the city limits

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:40.000
 in the etj the developers can just move these proposals to the county area as the demand for

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.960
 housing in this area increases so using these densities and traffic counts we developed the

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:54.720
 roadway infrastructure for each scenario a key difference from the existing thoroughfare plan

00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:03.760
 that we'd shown earlier to this one is that the proposed east west primary arterial has been

00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:11.920
 downgraded to a secondary arterial and it does not go past the green belt anymore also while we kept

00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:18.400
 the classification names the secondary arterial commercial collector these names are the same as

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:24.320
 they exist in the current city thoroughfare plan we are proposing cross sections that will be more

00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:30.960
 compatible with the vision for the area so here's some examples of the cross section for secondary

00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:40.080
 arterial which is rural section section of hartley field road between collins road and purist these

00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:49.120
 are two options you can use them in that section then here is a secondary arterial cross section

00:33:49.120 --> 00:33:56.400
 for the residential transition area which would be west of hartley field so you can see we're trying

00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:03.760
 to make sure that the cross sections in this area do match the vision and the character of the area

00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:14.880
 so we also studied so and we we performed an environmental and fiscal impact for both the

00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:22.480
 scenarios for environmental impact we considered land in both city limits and outside the city

00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:30.800
 limits but for fiscal impact we only considered land within the city limits in business as usual

00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:37.440
 scenario we assume needing restoration and preservation strategies one of the main

00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:45.840
 environmental mitigation challenges in this scenario is the large land set asides that

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:51.840
 will be needed to offset the lower density development sprawl which becomes difficult

00:34:51.840 --> 00:35:01.120
 with privately owned properties and open space for for balancing act we assumed repair and enhance

00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:08.400
 strategies in addition to the restoration and preservation strategies while in this scenario

00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:14.960
 targeted development areas allow for more publicly accessible land to incorporate the restoration and

00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:23.280
 preservation lack of certainty about specific development configurations makes it difficult

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:30.560
 to plan improvements without major public investment so in summary both scenarios have their

00:35:30.560 --> 00:35:37.120
 own challenges in implementing the environmental strategies and they both have similar costs

00:35:37.120 --> 00:35:45.440
 the balancing scenario cost estimates are 25 to 50 million higher however the balancing act scenario

00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:52.960
 also includes strategies for repair and enhancement of the natural systems and it also allows for

00:35:52.960 --> 00:36:00.880
 considerable cost burden to be shifted from public sector to private sector we use city's

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:07.200
 fiscal impact model to conduct a high level analysis of property but as mentioned earlier

00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:14.000
 we only applied this model to within the city limits to each of the scenario we use this model

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:22.400
 to calculate the revenues and the expenditures that is to get the net city fiscal impact for

00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:32.160
 each of the scenarios over 40 years let's start with business yeah let's start with

00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:40.080
 business as usual scenario in this scenario we used assumptions that you see on the slide here

00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:47.040
 the rural residential has five acre lots and residential transition is a blend of small lots

00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:57.600
 we assume that the areas south of hardly feel are similar on both the

00:36:57.600 --> 00:37:08.400
 business as usual and the balancing act scenario and this is because in this scenario it's likely

00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.720
 that the county areas may develop high with higher densities and the traffic generated from

00:37:14.720 --> 00:37:21.440
 this higher development will leave the etj and travel onto the city roads when planning for

00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:26.640
 infrastructure costs the city will want to be prepared to build infrastructure to accommodate

00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:34.880
 these higher traffic counts in the balancing act scenario we use densities you see here on the

00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:46.800
 slide for for example was modeled with development clustered together in open spaces i am obviously

00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:53.520
 reading from the wrong thing so let me go back to the slide here my apologies so we did look at both

00:37:53.520 --> 00:38:02.800
 the we had some assumptions for these business as usual as well as the balancing act and the

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:10.640
 only difference is in the business as usual south of hartley field we considered it exactly the same

00:38:10.640 --> 00:38:18.400
 as we did for the balancing act and like i said earlier the reason for this was that we don't know

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:23.680
 how it will develop and the city will want to be prepared in case there is a higher density

00:38:23.680 --> 00:38:29.200
 development that goes in there that you all can't control because that traffic will come on to your

00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:37.760
 city streets in addition the way we looked at the assumptions was for business as usual we had it

00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:49.120
 laid out as the entire area divided into lots five acre lots and basically what that did was

00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:55.600
 it passed on the maintenance and restoration of natural environment the cost of it to the

00:38:55.600 --> 00:39:04.880
 private property owner in our balancing act we we assumed that the development would occur on a

00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:14.160
 smaller pocket with higher amount of land publicly accessible land at which time the costs of

00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:20.640
 environmental protection or maintenance went away or the private property owner was relieved of that

00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:31.520
 cost so looking at the two estimates what we got was for business as usual your net impact is 2.3

00:39:31.520 --> 00:39:40.240
 billion and for balancing act it's 6.3 billion the additional open space you get for business as

00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:51.280
 usual is 442 acres and for balancing act is 627 acres so summarizing this the difference is that

00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:59.600
 the main difference is that we basically have a fiscal impact on the city's general fund

00:39:59.600 --> 00:40:06.640
 with the balancing act scenario results in four billion dollars more in revenue and almost 200

00:40:06.640 --> 00:40:14.800
 acres more in publicly available open space the cost estimates for mitigating environmental impacts

00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:21.840
 are about 25 to 50 million less in business as usual than in the balancing act scenario

00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:29.040
 with most of the restoration left to individual property owners but the main difference in these

00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:35.920
 scenarios is that the balancing act scenario prepares the city for future infrastructure needs

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:42.480
 and also allows for sharing of infrastructure and environmental mitigation costs with private

00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:51.760
 development so these are quick summary takeaways now we'd like to ask you all for direction on

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:59.120
 today the direction on one of these two scenarios business as usual or the balancing act yes sir

00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:09.840
 yeah um that that concludes your presentation yes okay great do you have the answers to those

00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:17.040
 other questions before we dig in so questions yeah the questions one was around uh collaboration

00:41:17.040 --> 00:41:20.400
 with the county i know we have to answer that because i already asked it and so it's on the

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:27.120
 sheet if someone wants to just read it with respect to how the city and the county collaborate um on

00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:37.120
 so in terms of the city and county collaboration i'll be uh i don't know which number you're

00:41:37.120 --> 00:41:41.520
 referring to because i just received this but normally we do have good strong partnership

00:41:41.520 --> 00:41:46.560
 in collaboration with denton county that's why we have steven belknap here that is serving on

00:41:46.560 --> 00:41:54.960
 the steering committee as well so and the bottom line is platting authority in our etj area etj1

00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:01.200
 we had an interlocal agreement with denton county in etj1 the city provides platting

00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:08.080
 etj2 the county provides platting so in denton county someone that does not live in a corporate

00:42:08.080 --> 00:42:14.400
 limit will plot their property and have to follow subdivision regulations it does not address the

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:19.360
 number of buildings the size of buildings the use of buildings or the mass of buildings and the only

00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:27.440
 regulation then with the city is an etj1 and it relates to the platting authority and sorry may

00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:34.560
 i just add so when we said that city has no jurisdiction or cannot influence development

00:42:34.560 --> 00:42:43.280
 we're talking about land use authority so you can divide subdivide a property you have to subdivide

00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:49.040
 it well the city has to say yes as long as all the utilities are provided to the property but

00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:58.560
 city cannot say no to land use right bear with me let me get your first rate and then land amount

00:42:58.560 --> 00:43:04.240
 of land in the city in the plan did you have a chance to look at that so that was councilman

00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:09.200
 watts's question we can come back to it if you hadn't we'll have to follow up with that we're

00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:19.920
 calculating and same within the floodplain still calculate got it okay and then um how many people

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:25.760
 voted that you you have you still calculating looking at that right 123 versus 189 yeah i just

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.640
 need to go back to the okay yeah no problem just wanted to touch on them okay uh councilman melts

00:43:30.640 --> 00:43:36.320
 well thank you very much for your indulgence yeah thank you um i want to track a little bit of the

00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:47.040
 sequence of events and and add a very important piece uh attended a okay i want to track a little

00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:52.400
 bit of the sequence of events and add a very important piece i attended some of the community

00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:58.480
 input and i think a very telling exercise that's reflected in everything here was the the visual

00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:04.960
 one where people placed red dots by images of various types of development and and uh by and

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:10.080
 large if the rectangle was predominantly green correct me if i'm wrong that's where the red

00:44:10.080 --> 00:44:19.360
 dots were anything vertical construction pavement not uh and that's uh that's reflected in the vision

00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:24.240
 statement that came out from the steering committee i think we're talking about early may

00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:31.680
 uh that talks about prioritizing environmental preservation and healthy recreation honoring

00:44:31.680 --> 00:44:36.320
 rural character protecting open space and greenways and establishing northeast dentin

00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:44.720
 is a special place for all of dentin to enjoy uh now we also heard that the city only influences

00:44:44.720 --> 00:44:54.000
 40 some odd percent because it's etj uh but as i get to this last event uh i ask you well who

00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:00.960
 does influence in the city and out of the city i'm going to answer that question in late may

00:45:01.520 --> 00:45:09.280
 after our meetings after these two uh visions were kind of crafted governor greg abbott

00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:17.360
 signs legislation authorizing a billion dollar fund to buy land for new parks and expand existing

00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:23.840
 ones now you might say well how would would they notice our little part of the world even though

00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:30.720
 we're one of the fastest growing parts of texas well tell you who the author of the bill and the

00:45:30.720 --> 00:45:39.760
 resolution uh was in the house it was tan parker tan parker from flower mound uh so when i look at

00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:47.360
 the the bipartisan acknowledgement that texas is under parked when i look at the fact that our

00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:54.560
 population is growing and our parks per park acreage per capita is shrinking and the fact

00:45:54.560 --> 00:46:01.520
 that this area has a variety of ecosystems it has already planned accessibility and that

00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:10.240
 this direction could provide a fair return to landowners and achieve the preservation goals

00:46:10.240 --> 00:46:19.600
 that the neighbor so clearly requires uh i i ask that that be uh investigated seriously as an

00:46:19.600 --> 00:46:25.360
 option i've mentioned it to staff and the response has been interesting we'll monitor with all due

00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:30.800
 respect i don't think that's how you get it done i think it requires putting together a proposal

00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.560
 and a plan that speaks to the ecosystems the accessibility the population growth the unique

00:46:36.560 --> 00:46:41.520
 features and the fact that it could be adjacent to clear creek reminds me of how big ben's got a

00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:49.840
 state park adjacent to a big national park you could have a big contiguous area so uh submitted

00:46:49.840 --> 00:47:03.440
 for your consideration all right um so i'm gonna try thank you appreciate it we only have an hour

00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:08.720
 if you want to hear what i'm speaking then then we'll have to be uh a little more efficient so

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:14.080
 thank you very much i appreciate your support for the comments um that being said any anyone

00:47:14.080 --> 00:47:20.000
 asks a question hadn't asked question first time around let's get those uh let's go suzy and then

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.880
 uh did i see your hand councilman bird oh no okay and then uh mayor pro tem suzy and the mayor

00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:35.440
 um i was curious if the fiscal analysis included i was curious if the fiscal analysis included um

00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:40.720
 anything beyond when we actually replace the infrastructure because 40 is a little

00:47:40.720 --> 00:47:44.960
 around the time we might start to replace or a little before we start to replace infrastructure

00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:49.920
 i know we've got um the next bond that's going to come up is going to be road heavy a lot of that is

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:54.480
 road replacement reconstruction that kind of thing so i'm curious if we're accounting for

00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:58.480
 that when we're comparing the option a option b the replacement part

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:10.640
 all right sorry i've got a big voice anyway i work first i am a senior commiss with uh in north

00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:16.880
 texas area the particular model that we were using which is the one that is developed by okay

00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:22.400
 which is the one that it has been development is being used by the city of denton uh i understand

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:29.440
 does take into account some of the um replacement costs especially what you're doing with roads

00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:34.480
 especially since uh this particular physical impact model went out 40 years so yes that's

00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:40.080
 something i did notice a lot of them uh physical impact models go from about 20 to 30 but this one

00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:45.680
 does go out and did take into account um the replacement of particular types of roads

00:48:45.680 --> 00:48:58.000
 thank you all um so i'm going to follow up with that with another a couple of economic questions

00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:04.640
 for the model which i was unclear on um if we're it seems like the the correct me if i'm wrong that

00:49:04.640 --> 00:49:12.880
 the the fiscal impact was just the region just the 8,500 acres less than 8,500 acres the fiscal

00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:19.680
 impact was only that property that's in city limits because outside there's no tax revenue coming in

00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:28.160
 so the the 39.95 or 4,000 acres that's about 4,000 yes sir um okay so um when we're doing

00:49:28.160 --> 00:49:36.080
 this sort of analysis we have to take into account i think um the a couple of environmental factors

00:49:36.080 --> 00:49:43.760
 and and economic factors that i'm not sure i want to ask about um when in general a lot of the

00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:51.600
 factors uh for economics both in the region and in the detton region writ large will be determined

00:49:51.600 --> 00:50:00.560
 by uh vmt vehicle miles traveled and so if if you're looking at the the number of vehicle miles

00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:07.600
 traveled it'll it'll impact the environmental costs and the roadway installation costs and

00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:15.680
 the roadway replacement costs and so i i'm curious if you have an assessment on the sort of level of

00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:24.320
 vmt that changes between the two models and if you consider um the city as a whole uh because that

00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.120
 that's a destination point for the city it's envisioned as a destination point for the city

00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:36.320
 and so what are the what are the roadway impacts and both in terms of installation replacement and

00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:43.680
 then when we're doing stormwater runoff lower levels of miles and different types of road

00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:49.280
 installation will and the vmt's on those different types of roads say etj roads where they might be

00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:56.240
 bar ditch or something else will will impact environmental costs and remediation costs so i

00:50:56.240 --> 00:51:02.160
 know that was a lot but it all circles around what are the vmt's and what are the associated costs

00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:10.480
 environmental and economic of the vmt's so i was gonna try to answer the environmental side so with

00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:17.680
 the environmental costs we did consider what you've just talked about the vehicle miles travel the

00:51:17.680 --> 00:51:23.360
 impact of it and doing that whole stormwater infrastructure that will be needed and now i'll

00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:32.880
 let um on the physical impact portion um yes it was separated from the the environmental and they

00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:41.040
 did a a separate portion to uh put that into the overall analysis so with the physical impact yes

00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:49.200
 the um not specifically vmt but essentially the road uh ways were uh impacted as far as

00:51:49.200 --> 00:51:55.600
 the lane miles and so the for the various scenarios that went on we adjusted the lane miles

00:51:55.600 --> 00:52:02.160
 which then adjusted that and took into account the vmt and the road in the traffic and it also

00:52:02.160 --> 00:52:06.640
 not only is just the lane miles that are increased but the type of road whether it's going to be

00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:15.360
 asphalt or concrete so those two combinations had an impact on that particular uh model used by the

00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:21.920
 city in order to uh bring in a lot of the issues that you're talking about as far as vmt as far as

00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:29.280
 traffic and those are portions that go into that particular impact model okay first time questions

00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:37.040
 anyone else before we go back around seeing none okay um i think travis you had it succinctly as

00:52:37.040 --> 00:52:44.160
 possible and then um vicki and councilor watson yeah i guess i got two questions so the first

00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:50.800
 one is kind of relating to uh mr brian back here said um so when we talk about this movement of

00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:56.880
 vehicle vehicles and stuff we has anybody studied the impact that this is going to have on the inner

00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:01.840
 city of denton in terms of we've got all these allocated money that's going to be going to this

00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:09.440
 area granted i as a as a neighbor of northeast denton when i go wanting the village type feel

00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:14.560
 i go into downtown right because that's exactly what it is when i talk to people about this the

00:53:14.560 --> 00:53:19.520
 question becomes why even go downtown anymore if there's a village place right there so has

00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:27.040
 anybody studied the impact of not infilling downtown but rather moving that stuff that makes

00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:33.440
 downtown unique outward toward us what impact is that going to have on downtown that's my first

00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:43.840
 question but all wait yeah i don't well i'll take i'll take staffs so it's outside it's a question

00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:50.400
 about outside the area right uh and so i'll however you want to address that well as population grows

00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:55.920
 so too will be those those centers that we need to have so we reduce traffic by virtue of having

00:53:55.920 --> 00:54:01.920
 different city centers if you will um where those where those people can congregate or go

00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:07.600
 do what it is that they're doing so i i think it's i think it's somewhat in the equation shy

00:54:07.600 --> 00:54:12.800
 and we are collaborating with the consultant who's doing your downtown redevelopment plan

00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:18.720
 anyways so some of these ideas we're going to make sure that we're not recommending something

00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:23.760
 in one part of your city that the other part of the city is going to get damaged by so we are

00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:31.040
 collaborating and downtown will have a very distinct special vibe it definitely will not be

00:54:31.040 --> 00:54:40.160
 the rural village center it will probably end up being more vibrant and more intense okay shy can

00:54:40.160 --> 00:54:49.680
 you please put up slide 31 do i need the mic yes so i just want to this is a clarifying comment

00:54:49.680 --> 00:54:58.480
 no sorry it was one of the other ones that showed the um the higher density the orange and the yellow

00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:07.040
 but you had the numbers listed in the traffic analysis so i want to just point out south first

00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:15.040
 off heartley field road is a county maintained road except for at the very end down here that's

00:55:15.040 --> 00:55:24.080
 number one number two this is existing i'm sorry this is existing neighborhood in here anything

00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:32.000
 west of ferris is existing neighborhood i happen to be as i mentioned i'm on a was on a seven acre

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:41.120
 parcel and i replatted and my restrictions because we were on septic and a well means one house per

00:55:41.120 --> 00:55:48.960
 two acres all of that this neighborhood anything west of ferris is all under those restrictions

00:55:49.520 --> 00:55:57.200
 so when you talk about raising the count west of ferris to 13 000 trips by the way calculated at

00:55:57.200 --> 00:56:04.000
 the rates that the city has come up with that's seven thousand additional homes outside of the

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.800
 existing neighborhoods so unless you're going to mow those down i don't know how we're fitting

00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:16.080
 seven thousand homes and in this little area but no there are restrictions because we're on septics

00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:26.000
 and wells so uh may i answer that one sir so what we've done is in business as usual we actually

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:33.600
 didn't take into account the houses that are existing in that area south of heartley we assumed

00:56:33.600 --> 00:56:41.680
 five acres only five acres one lot per five acres kind of uh as you can see that's the existing

00:56:41.680 --> 00:56:50.960
 homes plus one lot for five acres it that is all we did in the balancing act we actually counted

00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:57.280
 the homes that were already there looked at the undeveloped property for example there is

00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:03.760
 reed property that is completely vacant undeveloped on the other side of cooper

00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:12.960
 but there is uh empty property so what we did was we took into account we counted those lots that

00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:19.280
 are existing the homes that are existing then we counted the acreage that was blank and then we put

00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:26.960
 the density we're talking about on that acreage so that's together that's what we got but you're

00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:33.280
 putting a ton of houses on a small the reeds area is not that big okay so i'm assuming they're they're

00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:38.480
 mapped it's a standard equation you can by all means so if you can write down or jot down a

00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:43.360
 follow-up with the size of the acreage and the and the algorithm or the formula and then you

00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:52.400
 can you can punch that number those numbers okay so uh councilman watts yeah and i think for

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:59.360
 clarification on the acreage for a septic or a water well i think that's a county and a state

00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:04.480
 reg the city doesn't regulate that so i just have a question of clarification these are the

00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:12.000
 two plans right the business as usual options and so i want to make sure that i'm looking at this

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:23.440
 right the only difference that i see in these two are primarily right here everything else looks

00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:30.560
 about the same when if you if you were to make these colors orange so this right here is the same

00:58:30.560 --> 00:58:42.560
 this area this area is the same this area is not so but this area is the same am i so we're really

00:58:42.560 --> 00:58:50.000
 talking about as far as the plan either as usual or with a balancing taking in development into

00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:58.160
 consideration we're talking about this area here and then these areas up here is that am i reading

00:58:58.160 --> 00:59:05.600
 that right yes sir okay do you know how many acres these comprise yes we actually have it somewhere

00:59:05.600 --> 00:59:11.520
 we do i don't have it off the top but i have it on my spreadsheet i can okay and as a follow-up

00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:20.560
 are all of these areas in the city or some of them in the county so north of hartley field is

00:59:20.560 --> 00:59:28.560
 in the city are you talking about where it says 12 110 or one yes 12 110 and 1162 okay so this is

00:59:28.560 --> 00:59:37.360
 in the city the 13 328 and 27 750 is in the county and as i talked about before the reason those

00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:44.000
 numbers are higher is because the city has no influence on the density that goes there so we

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:49.520
 assumed that people would build according to what the market demand is very important point

00:59:49.520 --> 00:59:54.240
 because on the city council and funding zoning doesn't have to deal with it on city council

00:59:54.240 --> 01:00:01.040
 we are approached all the time with muds and with mnds that are in the county and i think it's pretty

01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:09.120
 clear to say we have very little if zero folks zero regulation ability over those areas so it

01:00:09.120 --> 01:00:14.080
 doesn't matter what we do here it doesn't matter what we do here on this plan because it's gonna

01:00:14.080 --> 01:00:18.720
 that's not going to affect this right here because we have no say this area right here

01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:26.480
 because this is in the county so this is in the city what about the 14 185 i'm assuming that's

01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:32.000
 in the county because the number is so high no that one is in this this is right around it hot

01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:39.520
 well what number is it yes okay so this is in the county which is this line here okay and what about

01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:47.200
 up here how many acreage here in the city the seven three one one twelve three seven seven

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:56.560
 and sixteen thousand that's in the city limits so these three along the highway yes along 428 yes all

01:00:56.560 --> 01:01:07.520
 right so i'm just going to say this isn't ready for city council vote we we spent a year on six

01:01:07.520 --> 01:01:13.200
 thousand acres off i-35 talking about physical impact talking about things such as that there

01:01:13.200 --> 01:01:20.240
 is no way i'm not voting on either one of these because there's no way there's enough information

01:01:20.240 --> 01:01:28.640
 to understand what's going on here i mean it's just it's crazy so i think we need to we need to

01:01:28.640 --> 01:01:33.680
 this is the first time the city council has seen this and i know a couple council members have been

01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:39.840
 involved in this process which is disappointing because i would think that given that the the

01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:45.920
 importance of this item to the community both the people in the city and the people in the county

01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:55.600
 we are asked as policymakers in a two-hour meeting to decide this that's that's nothing

01:01:55.600 --> 01:02:07.040
 because because if i had to vote if i had to vote today i would vote on the balancing act

01:02:07.040 --> 01:02:14.000
 because that's what i can control and in fact if these people really i mean i don't i'm telling

01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:21.520
 you all you got to do is look out 380 heading west we've got seven thousand homes going out there

01:02:21.520 --> 01:02:26.320
 in the etj we cannot control at all and you know where they're going to come start looking next

01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:32.880
 so we've got to figure out a way to do this right and this isn't it and paul maybe you know having

01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:37.920
 some time to petition to see hey if there's some property owners in here and folks i would say i'm

01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.840
 number one on private property rights and to say that this body is going to make a decision in two

01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:52.320
 hours on something that's affecting now we're only saying we got 3400 acres or 3900 acres in the city

01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:57.600
 i bet you when you consider this acreage it's probably not a whole lot of that that's the

01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:03.440
 differences in the plan i'm talking about we're all getting all been out of shape and trying to

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:09.520
 figure all this out for these small areas when everything else is the same and unfortunately

01:03:09.520 --> 01:03:14.560
 the people who are in the county that have the most at stake that want this to see us this go

01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:23.440
 through even if we voted for the businesses you guess what somebody could come in and plop down

01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:28.160
 a mud two or three muds with about seven thousand homes or eight thousand homes right in this area

01:03:28.160 --> 01:03:34.960
 this is for you all it's a county issue and a state legislative issue because not only did

01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:42.400
 the mayor did the governor sign in a billion dollars for wildlife the governor also signed

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:50.480
 that people in the etj a lot of y'all out there can vote to opt out of the city etj

01:03:51.600 --> 01:03:55.840
 so this isn't ready folks and i think if we move forward on this this is irresponsible

01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:03.760
 because we do not have enough information because if we have to vote well if i have to vote

01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:07.120
 i'm going with the balancing act because isn't that what we try to do is balance interest

01:04:07.120 --> 01:04:14.960
 because we can do nothing about the 13 328 uh and all these the the other ones so

01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:22.960
 this this isn't ready uh and so i just that's my input any other questions before i go back to you

01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:28.640
 for a third time give me a second anyone else i have a quick question about the votes uh just

01:04:28.640 --> 01:04:34.400
 one second let him bring you the microphone and your name i'm sorry uh ben ho camp i'm on the

01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:39.120
 steering committee people who are watching a lot of exciting yeah those that are online are not

01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:46.480
 able to hear unless we use the microphone uh i'm ben ho camp i'm on the steering committee on slide

01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:58.240
 40 i believe uh the roads i have a quick question in the plan um so the only difference uh looking

01:04:58.240 --> 01:05:04.080
 at the southern portion uh is the connector between collins and cooper creek but are we

01:05:04.080 --> 01:05:10.240
 to understand that heartley field road would be redesigned in the same way regardless of the plan

01:05:10.240 --> 01:05:17.040
 or would that also be affected so currently on the city's uh existing thoroughfare plan

01:05:17.040 --> 01:05:25.360
 what hardly field road shows it's going to stay that way because it is a county road what we are

01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:32.960
 doing here and i've been trying to hit it from the beginning is we are showing it in case the

01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:41.520
 property owners in the county want to annex that's the only reason the areas in the county are colored

01:05:41.520 --> 01:05:48.000
 or the streets that our county owned are shown or we're showing streets in the county is if they

01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:54.800
 want to annex if it the land comes into the city limit then the city would have an idea and a plan

01:05:54.800 --> 01:06:02.160
 and they will be prepared to know that this is what they're gonna have to spend today none of this

01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:07.440
 in the county area is getting designed or is getting built or nothing is happening

01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:34.080
 or can happen whether people ask for it or not yes sir so i had two questions um on the sort of i'm

01:06:34.080 --> 01:06:38.720
 trying to understand the the way we we designed the the model and looked at the impacts

01:06:38.720 --> 01:06:46.400
 the business impacts from the model the so i'm could i get a little more clarity on how the open

01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.760
 space calculations were were done if you if you have a parcel in a residential parcel

01:06:51.760 --> 01:07:01.920
 is the entire parcel taken off off of the model as is not an open space even though the vertical

01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:08.960
 structures would be some 20 percent or whatever of a five acre parcel um i mean so that's i'm

01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:14.320
 confused on is how is the open space calculation done and and then maybe i'll take that and then

01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:22.720
 ask my second question so the way we looked at it is not parcel by parcel we we didn't that's not

01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:29.840
 there's not enough time to do that what we did was took an area and on that area we laid out like

01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:41.280
 we did the probably okay let me go back here you know how we created a little rough layout so that's

01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:47.120
 what we did is we looked at bigger areas we looked at what the layout would be we looked at the acres

01:07:47.120 --> 01:07:54.080
 that we would keep open and how many units ended up fitting in there we had we looked at lane miles

01:07:54.080 --> 01:08:00.480
 that would be needed to build that type of development and it's all assumptions so it is

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:06.240
 logical assumptions but they're all based on assumptions but but just to follow up the

01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:15.120
 assumption on a residential region is is that that no longer counts as open space yes sir so if we

01:08:15.120 --> 01:08:22.560
 were going to do five acre lots we took the whole area laid it out in five acre lots and looked at

01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:27.600
 the street that would be needed to get to how many lots that would be the street calculation

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:32.880
 and rest of it all becomes private property no opens yeah i think that's not a good model

01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:37.440
 going forward because somebody on a five-acre parcel is not building five acres of vertical

01:08:37.440 --> 01:08:42.640
 structure so and in fact some of our highest conservation properties are represented in the

01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:48.960
 room with lots of tree canopy and they have a little house one one when we say open space we're

01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:57.040
 talking publicly accessible open space so if it is a private lot it is not public open space so

01:08:57.040 --> 01:09:04.000
 city will have no control over it whereas when we laid it out we're counting publicly accessible

01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:09.120
 open space so that's that's that's fair i think that's a probably a different consideration than

01:09:09.120 --> 01:09:16.400
 the environmental impact but anyway on on the the business model side when we did the fiscal impact

01:09:17.200 --> 01:09:22.160
 and tried to assess the difference in the in the various models did we take into account the types

01:09:22.160 --> 01:09:29.040
 of business practices that would go on so like if we've got the new rodeo and and new facilities

01:09:29.040 --> 01:09:34.720
 supporting the new rodeo and equestrian and agricultural areas that are related to sort

01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:42.080
 of a more rural type business agribusiness model environment versus the the kind of mn

01:09:43.040 --> 01:09:48.480
 small model retail i mean how how fine grain was the business model did you take a differential

01:09:48.480 --> 01:09:54.880
 impact when you looked at the the the change in one versus the other go ahead and stay there

01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:59.920
 again well they can't hear you online it's a problem we can hear you in the room but

01:09:59.920 --> 01:10:07.040
 yeah thank you very much my apologies for those online to answer your question yes sir there are

01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:13.760
 differentiations made for the various types of business types to include agricultural there's

01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:25.440
 a great deal of breakout as far as if it is going to be some type of retail and within the model

01:10:25.440 --> 01:10:30.000
 there was a way to kind of designate if it was going to be a mixed use and to put in there

01:10:31.040 --> 01:10:38.560
 the combination of retail and multifamily and some offices if need be so to answer your question yes

01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:43.280
 there are differentiations made in the in the background of the model it was a pull down

01:10:43.280 --> 01:10:50.000
 device we would say this portion is going to be retail this portion is going to be such and such

01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:56.720
 there's even if you look down at the bottom that's along uh us 380 we even included those portions

01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:01.760
 that were going to be industrial and designated them for kind of the industrial that's there

01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:10.320
 that's more warehouse okay real brief follow-up but again that was that was just the model for

01:11:10.320 --> 01:11:17.360
 the 4,000 out of the 8,500 acres it wasn't the the regional impact of these different business

01:11:17.360 --> 01:11:22.000
 models for someone going out to a restaurant from downtown or from the region or someone going to

01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:29.760
 an equestrian park from another nearby region it was just the 8,500 acres right correct it was a

01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:37.280
 fiscal impact which is the model saying if we put this type of business here this is going to be

01:11:37.280 --> 01:11:47.440
 the impact to the municipality what they expect to get into various revenues and how much more cost

01:11:47.440 --> 01:11:51.920
 is going to add i believe and correct me if i'm wrong what you're actually talking about is an

01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:56.720
 economic impact so if we put this business here what are going to be the secondary and

01:11:56.720 --> 01:12:03.200
 tertiary effects in order to build more businesses and additional revenues and if we put a plant out

01:12:03.200 --> 01:12:09.280
 here if you go down the load well the cleaners get additional money and i should speak out of

01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:16.720
 cleaners because that's my dad's job my dad's business real quick yes that's that's i'm asking

01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:21.520
 that sort of economic model and the larger impact on the entire community for this particular study

01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:37.200
 sir we did not do the economic impact model okay thank you mr mayor um first off uh madam city

01:12:37.200 --> 01:12:41.680
 manager i want to thank you for doing the work to bring all the stakeholders and various groups

01:12:41.680 --> 01:12:48.400
 together i just want to say publicly just as this body has now begun more regular meetings with our

01:12:48.400 --> 01:12:53.280
 partners like disd i would encourage us this is the time where we should be reaching out to our

01:12:53.280 --> 01:12:58.160
 county partners and try to have a joint meeting setup between us and our county commission our

01:12:58.160 --> 01:13:03.040
 county judge given that they meet on the same day it might be an opportunity for us to have some

01:13:03.040 --> 01:13:08.720
 collaboration because i'm going to agree with councilmember watts i really don't want to have

01:13:08.720 --> 01:13:13.840
 to make this decision today only because i would really like to know what the county's thoughts are

01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:19.360
 while we don't it is true we don't have any say of course in etj1 it would be helpful for us just

01:13:19.360 --> 01:13:24.080
 to know the general direction that they are thinking things might want to go so just uh just

01:13:24.080 --> 01:13:29.120
 a plug for more collaboration between a different body so much as time will allow and they would be

01:13:29.120 --> 01:13:35.360
 permitting to do it with us thank you sir uh just a quick clarification for everybody around the

01:13:35.360 --> 01:13:41.440
 table today we're not asking you to vote on anything at all we're just asking for direction

01:13:41.440 --> 01:13:49.440
 on which which scenario would you do you seem to like that we should go develop some recommendations

01:13:49.440 --> 01:13:56.160
 and uh implementation and go look into in more detail than y'all asked for councilmember you

01:13:56.160 --> 01:14:03.360
 mentioned you need a lot more detail we just need to know which scenario would you like us to look

01:14:03.360 --> 01:14:09.920
 more into detail about and i'll and i'll piggyback on that um scott mcdonald director of development

01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:20.480
 services hdr has put in roughly 500 hours into this project already um staff has put equally as

01:14:20.480 --> 01:14:29.200
 much time in a variety of ways and if we're going to go further or longer we're going to need

01:14:29.200 --> 01:14:36.160
 additional funds to carry this forward most importantly we're looking for a path we're not

01:14:36.160 --> 01:14:42.800
 looking for a vote today we're looking for a path from our policymakers if they have a preference on

01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:49.600
 a path to go how would you establish that path and as we go through this process we can address

01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:56.080
 what needs to occur or if we need to modify either of these paths so i.e. we're looking

01:14:56.080 --> 01:15:04.880
 for additional information so council can send us on path a or path b we'd like to go down

01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:09.760
 whichever path and we'd like some additional information brought back to us in the next

01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:16.480
 couple of weeks via work session or through an isr or some other function to provide that

01:15:16.480 --> 01:15:21.680
 information as far as including the county we have a county representative my counterpart

01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:28.960
 stephen belmap is is in regular communication with with his his folks at the county not to

01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:33.040
 say that we couldn't put together another joint meeting or something similar if they're even

01:15:33.040 --> 01:15:40.080
 amenable i don't know but truly all we're looking for from city council today is do we have a path

01:15:40.080 --> 01:15:46.880
 to continue down and if not then ultimately i'm looking for whether we're going to continue this

01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:53.600
 process i'm going to have to have some funding to be able to do that thank you mayor well just make

01:15:53.600 --> 01:16:01.840
 it easy councilman burke and then i i'll take it thank you for the opportunity and i also want to

01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:08.000
 thank all the players involved in this it's just such a it's a wonderful thing to see that we are

01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:14.000
 grasping our growth i'll pretty much consider the city of bitton like a teenager trying to figure it

01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:20.640
 out and so we've come to a crossroads now this is a very big project uh but keeping that in mind

01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:28.400
 i it i i would like to see us take the uh the balancing act uh and work with that

01:16:28.400 --> 01:16:34.720
 uh i know that there's a lot of opposition to that but i also want to comment to say that we are

01:16:34.720 --> 01:16:42.560
 talking about the future we're talking about 10 15 20 30 years from now and there's a good chance

01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:48.160
 i probably won't be around about 30 years from now but i know that we will have to leave a legacy

01:16:48.160 --> 01:16:53.440
 for the people that are coming up behind us we did recognize that a number of these people there was

01:16:53.440 --> 01:16:59.200
 a chart that showed us the age gap of the folks that we are going to have to make this work for

01:16:59.200 --> 01:17:05.360
 and i need to think we need to keep that in mind we like what we like i don't want anybody living

01:17:05.360 --> 01:17:11.600
 behind me i don't want richards on the either side of me i don't want my neighbors to move away i want

01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:17.600
 to keep everything just the same but i know that that is not going to be my future because that's

01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:22.160
 what happened to me my neighborhood doesn't look like the way that they used to and i had to grasp

01:17:22.160 --> 01:17:28.800
 that so i want us to be mindful of that that we're not talking about ourselves we're talking about

01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:35.840
 the future of us probably a generation and another generation behind that so um i for one if i were

01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:41.680
 to say that we were to go which is what you all are asking for right now i would definitely point

01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:51.600
 us towards the balancing act thank you okay thank you uh so i have uh my questions are these uh and

01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:57.360
 staff provided these in the answers so i'll just kind of glance over them for for speed sake so uh

01:17:57.360 --> 01:18:05.360
 line so that those tracking along and forgive me uh 21 ish i might be off my eyes uh so average how

01:18:05.360 --> 01:18:11.120
 home cost staff analysis staff analysis based on association realtors four hundred sixty thousand

01:18:11.120 --> 01:18:17.360
 dollars average amount uh deposit that you need is is twenty thousand dollars that makes a down

01:18:17.360 --> 01:18:24.720
 payment if my math is wrong forgive me ninety two thousand dollars uh and so my my just a a comment

01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:31.760
 is this my concern is and i've heard the the neighborhood and and uh in the in those that are

01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:38.640
 interested and i take note of it but i do want to note that the consequences of those discussions

01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:45.280
 if if we don't want multi-family in this area then you end up with an area of

01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:52.080
 people that have one hundred thousand dollars to put down on a deposit and they can afford a half

01:18:52.080 --> 01:18:58.320
 million dollar home uh and and so that's just what we're talking about how many hundreds of acres

01:18:58.320 --> 01:19:03.600
 of people that only have one hundred thousand dollars and only can afford half million dollar

01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:09.920
 homes at least uh because that's the it gets later and staff talks about the cost of land

01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:14.800
 and for um they estimate ninety thousand to one hundred twenty thousand dollars per acre

01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:20.560
 so if you're going to buy five acres that's a little over half million dollars so half million

01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:25.040
 dollars in the land half million dollar home let's say you pay to build it it's less than that it's

01:19:25.040 --> 01:19:32.320
 not full uh market rate but a million dollars um is what we're talking about we want in the

01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:38.160
 north part of town million dollar homeowners only uh and so that's that's just the results of the

01:19:38.160 --> 01:19:43.920
 request and so as i that will i process through that information there's there's nothing to that

01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:49.200
 that's the the numbers are the numbers um but i when it comes to questions staff do you have

01:19:49.200 --> 01:19:55.280
 the slides can since someone pulls up from the pictures i i sent in

01:19:55.280 --> 01:20:08.560
 okay i i purposely picked these out for those that don't know this is westlake area that's

01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:14.960
 fidelity investment it's a corporate office um one is google maps one i took myself

01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:22.480
 but that's a parking garage absolutely surrounded by trees

01:20:22.480 --> 01:20:29.040
 that's a corporate headquarters one of the largest finance institutions

01:20:29.040 --> 01:20:38.880
 in in the world absolutely surrounded by trees and water so i absolutely believe that these can

01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:44.240
 things can be done well and they can be planned appropriately and they can be sensitive to their

01:20:44.240 --> 01:20:50.560
 environment you i mean you tell me the engineering to drop that that parking space in between those

01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:58.560
 trees seamlessly not one disturbed it is absolutely impressive and i and i that's what inspires me

01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:04.880
 that we can do things well in this area and preserve all those uh requirements and another

01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:10.400
 thing that i noted and i asked staff to look at and i forget what number it's number 41 on your

01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:16.320
 spreadsheet is they i asked them about the gay lord texan and just rough math dallas there you go

01:21:16.320 --> 01:21:23.680
 thank you very much dallas business journal notes that gay lord texan makes 10.24 million dollars a

01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:31.440
 year for uh the city of grapevine their their um conventions generate a little more than 21 million

01:21:31.440 --> 01:21:39.440
 dollars per year dropped in right on the lake environmentally sensitive area uh and you can't

01:21:39.440 --> 01:21:45.600
 see it from the state highway again another example of how things can be done well and we

01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:51.520
 can balance uh the approach of development you won't find another convention center hotel that's

01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:56.800
 busier and you absolutely don't know what's there if you're driving by uh and you don't even know

01:21:56.800 --> 01:22:03.280
 what if you're driving halfway down the um driveway and it's next to one of our critical lakes in the

01:22:03.280 --> 01:22:08.480
 area so obviously they had to be diligent about their their planning that sort of thing so thank

01:22:08.480 --> 01:22:14.640
 you very much for those so i i believe it can be done well and the just real quick to touch on um

01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:20.320
 a couple of things i want to i want to note as i go into the 2040 plan because i we received a

01:22:20.320 --> 01:22:24.160
 lot of communication about that so i want to make sure i understand that well uh and that'll inform

01:22:24.160 --> 01:22:29.360
 my decision i want to make sure we're from the same basis everyone's seen south ridge area here

01:22:29.360 --> 01:22:39.760
 in denton are familiar understand those houses in that area is zoned r2 or r3 so great larger lots

01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:45.440
 than most of the city it's not five acres it's not one acre some of them are but by and large it's

01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:53.600
 zoned r2 r3 and it is one of the most scenic areas in the city of denton and built out so um

01:22:53.600 --> 01:22:58.720
 and there's million dollar homes in there as well but it's it's also uh there's homes in the in the

01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:03.920
 half million dollar range but just say for aesthetic again just another example of how we can do this

01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:16.240
 right so if i don't know scott maybe it's you that answers um questions about the 2040 plan who answers

01:23:16.240 --> 01:23:25.200
 those is that you a number of us can absolutely okay so so here's here's what so low res as i

01:23:25.200 --> 01:23:30.080
 looked on the on the 2040 plan because people said follow the plan i look under the low res

01:23:30.080 --> 01:23:34.800
 definition that's two dash 19 i don't know what i forget what page it's on but at the very bottom

01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:42.000
 it says density up to five dwelling units per acre is that that's in the plan i can pull up the page

01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:52.160
 if is it so yeah low res is that exactly up to five dwelling units per acre that's an accurate

01:23:52.160 --> 01:23:58.800
 statement yes and that's in the 2040 plan that's correct so i got an email that said follow the

01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:06.080
 2040 plan and i recommended five houses per acre i'm in line with the plan under that future land

01:24:06.080 --> 01:24:14.800
 use designation yes okay thank you very much and then uh also the who can speak to the state

01:24:14.800 --> 01:24:20.880
 highways i asked that question as well but i want the entire room to kind of that's number 29

01:24:22.240 --> 01:24:27.760
 can you speak to the the planned state highways we have our transportation expert here

01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:42.800
 if you could go over the plan like the planned expansions in this general area so that would be

01:24:42.800 --> 01:24:51.040
 428 the loop etc so as of right now there was a public meeting i believe last week for state

01:24:51.040 --> 01:24:58.960
 loop 288 and a connection from 288 to three and as well as 380 so right now they're looking at

01:24:58.960 --> 01:25:03.840
 doing it what's called a limited access facility along 288 and making a high speed connection to

01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:10.000
 380 that basically bisects that industrial section as shown here on the map as far as the

01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:15.120
 outer loop that you know that's a joint partnership between the county and tex dot looking at doing a

01:25:15.120 --> 01:25:21.840
 limited access facility that basically connects the outer ring and that's part of a larger regional

01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:28.800
 project as far as called the outer loop and then as far as 428 as of today as far as utp in the step

01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:35.680
 improvement plans there are no improvements today on that corridor that's currently funded or

01:25:35.680 --> 01:25:39.680
 identified as funding but i think through this mobility plan we recognize that it likely needs

01:25:39.680 --> 01:25:48.880
 to be a primary arterial with six lanes okay so six lanes just on the that would be the

01:25:48.880 --> 01:25:58.320
 western border of this plan okay got it and then back to the 2040 plan

01:26:06.080 --> 01:26:11.280
 number seven of the 10 principles of the building of healthy places as follows again 2040 plan and

01:26:11.280 --> 01:26:17.040
 i quote mix it up is the title and it says a variety of land uses building types public spaces

01:26:17.040 --> 01:26:23.120
 can improve both physically active and social interaction with with the necessitates updating

01:26:23.120 --> 01:26:27.280
 and regulation of the standards and that's what we're having that's what we're talking about today

01:26:27.280 --> 01:26:32.560
 updating the standards and regulations so that we can and that's in line with the 2040 plan

01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:40.640
 am i right yes sir okay great and then i don't know i have the quote here but i don't have it

01:26:40.640 --> 01:26:47.760
 earmarked so i'll just say also in the 2040 plan it talks about spreading out and someone can correct

01:26:47.760 --> 01:26:55.200
 me it if i'm wrong it talks about spreading out the open spaces throughout the city and advises

01:26:55.200 --> 01:27:04.560
 against what's the word grouping too many open spaces in one area but talks about dividing it

01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:09.920
 across the city am i right that's right you want to balance you know the lane uses in one of those

01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:16.000
 land uses open space okay right thank you very much uh so that's what's i mean i'll continue

01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:23.760
 to listen i'm happy to have more information i'm happy to give uh direction uh once we're done as

01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:29.760
 far as where i fall uh but i i just wanted to touch on those things that i i received the emails i did

01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:35.680
 not have time to reply to all of them but they it did direct me to the 2040 plan and i researched

01:27:35.680 --> 01:27:42.400
 the 2040 plan to make sure uh my suggestions are in line with the request and it just happens to

01:27:42.400 --> 01:27:48.960
 work out that way and based on examples i gave i i don't think it's a zero-sum game i think we can

01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:55.920
 treat this area with the sensitivity it deserves and deliver an outstanding product uh for our

01:27:55.920 --> 01:28:04.080
 community that then uh helps our our our uh residents and it helps us have a diverse housing

01:28:04.080 --> 01:28:10.000
 stock so that people that don't can't afford one million dollars can live in north denton i i don't

01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:18.000
 want to do that to the exclusion of 90 of the city of denton all right yeah thank you mayor um i know

01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:24.720
 we don't have a vote in direction but i'll just kind of say i guess a few opinions that i have for

01:28:24.720 --> 01:28:33.440
 you policymakers who are going to um send this a direction um not taking development into consideration

01:28:33.440 --> 01:28:42.560
 is exactly the reason you need an area plan in my opinion um so by trying to do business as usual

01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:51.200
 this seems like a catastrophic waste of time um so i would urge you to there's a lot of holes here

01:28:51.200 --> 01:28:56.720
 as as councilman watts pointed out there's so much we don't know there's so much to i'm not even sure

01:28:56.720 --> 01:29:03.120
 we can do the area plan as i think a lot of us envision because of the fact that a majority of

01:29:03.120 --> 01:29:10.080
 this land is not city-owned land and we have very little to say about its development but

01:29:11.200 --> 01:29:17.520
 what i would say again is if we're going to go forward with trying to make an area plan i think

01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:28.160
 you have to take development pressure into account and and directionally in my opinion would be we've

01:29:28.160 --> 01:29:33.840
 got to fill in a lot of these questions that we don't have on on the maps that you provided is

01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:42.160
 what is city land where exactly is that what is county line just better better staged on a map

01:29:42.160 --> 01:29:48.720
 than it looks right now um at any rate my two cents would be is you do have to consider development

01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:54.160
 pressures that's the whole reason that we want an area plan because it's here it's on the back door

01:29:54.160 --> 01:30:01.600
 it's coming it's knocking if we don't set a plan in place we're going to get what we just are

01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:10.960
 constantly fighting so um commissioners commissioner smith did have um his hand up earlier so i'm going

01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:23.360
 to pass the mic that way yeah i want to echo uh commissioner alice and council member watts's

01:30:23.360 --> 01:30:28.800
 points on the fact that the county pressure that we do have here is one of the key reasons why even

01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:35.360
 from the workday that we had uh that the discussion was along the lines of that's great gets great

01:30:35.360 --> 01:30:41.360
 plans uh and some some really good input from the community but there's only so much we can do with

01:30:41.360 --> 01:30:47.280
 that county land there the only point i would have uh with giving no voter direction whatsoever

01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:53.600
 to council uh but the only thing i would ask for is as presentations come back and the future path

01:30:54.160 --> 01:31:02.560
 is to specifically identify the zoning levels that would be within rural residential or in the uh

01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:07.360
 the the residential transitional areas within there even in just in the balancing act for to

01:31:07.360 --> 01:31:15.360
 versus the business as usual you have a wide disparity between one acre per one unit per five

01:31:15.360 --> 01:31:21.520
 acres all the way down to in the balancing act it was one unit per two acres or three units per

01:31:21.520 --> 01:31:28.080
 acre and there was some wide varying between those so having some more homogeneity some standards

01:31:28.080 --> 01:31:32.880
 relating it back to what we would see in our in our zoning laws as this continues and gets

01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:39.040
 to get more refined and i don't think that that was omitted uh or or forgotten about i think just

01:31:39.040 --> 01:31:44.400
 that this is a 30 000 full level view and as we continue and move from 30 000 down to 15 start

01:31:44.400 --> 01:31:49.600
 getting more specific start incorporating the ddc that we see on planning and zoning the city council

01:31:49.600 --> 01:31:55.120
 sees more into the plan as this comes in uh and then i want to echo commissioner alice's point that

01:31:55.120 --> 01:32:00.960
 i would love to be able to see a very clear map that has city county differentiated between there

01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:08.720
 so so if you look on the screens here that that dotted line is showing you where the city and the

01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:16.880
 county is with the layout but i can make it darker and send it to you also for sure on top of this

01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:28.080
 map without the roadways we just to say in a plan that the level of zoning information you're asking

01:32:28.080 --> 01:32:37.840
 what we usually do is recommend that this area can have a certain type of density very generally

01:32:37.840 --> 01:32:44.560
 it's it's not gonna what you're asking for is a complete different project and i would love to do

01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:55.680
 it if but it's not at this time yes sir current zoning is what the request is for is what areas

01:32:55.680 --> 01:33:02.320
 have current zoning today so we can address yes we can we can definitely we've considered it

01:33:02.320 --> 01:33:09.280
 thank you mayor uh i'm gonna try to learn from chair alice as well although that i've been trying

01:33:09.280 --> 01:33:16.160
 to for two years and not a bunch has soaked in and just offer some general comments not really

01:33:16.160 --> 01:33:20.720
 direction but things to think about as we move forward with either of these plans as dentin

01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:28.160
 doubles in population over the next 20 years or however long it's going to be you know we will

01:33:28.160 --> 01:33:35.920
 become fiscally solvent if most of that development activity occurs near our core where we already have

01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:44.080
 existing infrastructure services etc so you know in general for that reason i kind of like that

01:33:44.080 --> 01:33:49.040
 model and i think the the comp plan supports that however we will expand and when that happens

01:33:49.040 --> 01:33:53.840
 we also must make sure that everything is fiscally solvent as we develop it

01:33:53.840 --> 01:34:01.600
 but that solvency can be achieved either by increasing the development intensity to meet

01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:06.240
 the infrastructure we plan to put in or by looking at other types of infrastructure

01:34:06.240 --> 01:34:11.360
 that can be sustained by that development right it's it's not true that i want everything to be

01:34:11.360 --> 01:34:18.720
 dense i just want everything to pay for itself um you know i i really kind of like the this rural

01:34:18.720 --> 01:34:27.440
 village concept um i think it gives a diversity of housing options um that that you know people

01:34:27.440 --> 01:34:34.240
 of different means can afford to live uh in in an area near the fringe where you have close by

01:34:34.240 --> 01:34:39.920
 access to these assets that we're talking about that everybody loves um there are some specific

01:34:39.920 --> 01:34:45.680
 problems i think that could be solved in implementation and that's primarily um you know

01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:51.200
 collins road right now doesn't cross over i don't know if we have any friendly upr people here or

01:34:51.200 --> 01:34:59.840
 not um and um you know whatever plan happens for that wherever it is if it's incorporated

01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:08.720
 would need to be able to be realized in a in a development method that's not your typical

01:35:08.720 --> 01:35:14.400
 oh one person is amassing 230 acres and they're going to build it all at once because there's

01:35:14.400 --> 01:35:19.120
 just too much partialization here so there's some detail that needs to be go there as we go

01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:25.680
 for the further north right uh near the um future outer loop and that sort of thing

01:35:25.680 --> 01:35:33.120
 does does that type of thing make sense um i i guess it makes more sense from a environmental

01:35:33.120 --> 01:35:40.320
 and fiscal perspective than 50 acre parking lots and huge nebraska furniture marts um but to be

01:35:40.320 --> 01:35:46.240
 honest it it also kind of looks like hey textod is going to subsidize us by building this two

01:35:46.240 --> 01:35:50.560
 billion dollar road and so this is what we're going to put up and we're sort of letting them

01:35:50.560 --> 01:35:57.920
 determine our land use um so it's it's a rock and a hard place on that one um and then finally the

01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:04.400
 the one thing that i'm really nervous about is on the south southwestern area of the plan

01:36:04.400 --> 01:36:09.600
 really just because i haven't seen a proposal to uh explain how we're going to

01:36:10.560 --> 01:36:16.400
 phase the infrastructure to be consistent with the built environment's ability to to sustain it

01:36:16.400 --> 01:36:23.280
 long term i'm nervous about adding additional transitional areas uh because typically when

01:36:23.280 --> 01:36:28.640
 that's done we we don't phase the infrastructure we we put in top class curb and gutter and

01:36:28.640 --> 01:36:35.600
 everything so uh hope that helps thank you okay anyone else

01:36:38.080 --> 01:36:45.440
 okay we'll go um travis then uh councilman melzer and mayor pro tem and it is we we do

01:36:45.440 --> 01:36:49.360
 have a hard stock because we have a regular council meeting starts at two uh so i'm willing

01:36:49.360 --> 01:36:52.960
 to go a little over one but we have we have to have time to get across yeah i just wanted to

01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:56.880
 reiterate one thing that we've kind of talked about a lot is that business as usual was never

01:36:56.880 --> 01:37:02.160
 our plan it was never our term it was never anything that we advocated for we have always

01:37:02.160 --> 01:37:07.440
 advocated for keeping in the 2040 plan there's always been what the neighborhood with the large

01:37:07.440 --> 01:37:11.600
 vast majority of the committee has advocated for so i just want to say that that's a bit of a

01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:17.680
 misnomer that that is something that we've ever advocated for on top of that um just so we're

01:37:17.680 --> 01:37:21.760
 understanding we've talked about um all these emails that came in that were talking about a

01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:28.800
 2040 plan and then so we talked about having five homes per acre so my understanding that this

01:37:28.800 --> 01:37:35.200
 committee that the city council is going to recommend and hold to that five houses an acre

01:37:35.200 --> 01:37:41.120
 because that is not what's being planned north of harley field road right so that i mean if we if

01:37:41.120 --> 01:37:46.160
 we want to hold ourselves to that 2040 and i know it seems like you are we is that what we're

01:37:46.160 --> 01:37:51.040
 recommending five homes an acre right that's what the 2040 plan is so are we going to hold

01:37:51.040 --> 01:37:56.640
 people to that if we're going to say that that is not what it's currently so but but but i have

01:37:56.640 --> 01:38:01.680
 other things to say real quick um because i've got a lot ned's not here so i have to talk for him

01:38:03.200 --> 01:38:09.440
 um i think my other question is in the 2040 plan there's a lot of talk about

01:38:09.440 --> 01:38:19.360
 conservation it's rural conservation is mentioned in here 61 times out of the land that is not

01:38:19.360 --> 01:38:27.600
 watershed area that we would be very difficult to build on financially difficult how much of that

01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:35.280
 land are you guys advocating for conserving more not not not not not i'm going to put a parking lot

01:38:35.280 --> 01:38:42.400
 and trees around it right can anybody name some any of the endangered species that visited this

01:38:42.400 --> 01:38:51.440
 area can you name one just one so when is there a plan to conserve land for that there are bald

01:38:51.440 --> 01:38:59.520
 eagles that come here there are freshwater otters and i understand um this is just so just your

01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:04.240
 question right so i want to i want to use this time to get you the answers but i gotta have your

01:39:04.240 --> 01:39:08.400
 question all right so my question is are we willing one question are we willing to hold people to

01:39:08.400 --> 01:39:13.120
 five houses an acre as you said within the 2040 plan that that's the discussion we're going to

01:39:13.120 --> 01:39:20.400
 have today yes okay so that's one question second question how much land developable land are we

01:39:20.400 --> 01:39:26.960
 committing to conserving so at this point this is just a concept once you tell us which direction

01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:34.000
 you want to go then we're going to work on those details for either either scenario you will we

01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:39.280
 have to do that calculation it's going to be different depending on what development types

01:39:39.280 --> 01:39:44.480
 you're putting on that property what land you're going to preserve or how much land you're going

01:39:44.480 --> 01:39:50.480
 to preserve those calculations to do that we need to know which direction you want us to go in so

01:39:50.480 --> 01:39:58.320
 that's why we're here asking would you say that business is beautiful as business as usual with

01:39:58.320 --> 01:40:05.280
 modifications or balancing act with modifications or whatever which one of those in your mind would

01:40:05.280 --> 01:40:10.800
 conserve more land she she she they don't have they'll have to do the calculations that was our

01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:16.560
 answer the first time so and then we'll go to council member melzer thank you

01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:29.360
 okay um a couple of uh in the in the way of giving direction a couple points of clarification i was

01:40:29.360 --> 01:40:34.240
 actually in the group during the i think it was called the visioning session that sat about this

01:40:34.240 --> 01:40:42.000
 part of the room that introduced the idea of village but it was understood to be a way to

01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:49.440
 create more preserved open space and more five acre zoning the intention wasn't you know yeah

01:40:49.440 --> 01:40:54.880
 have traditional tract housing and village and consider that you know more preservation that

01:40:54.880 --> 01:41:01.440
 that's not the case so you know i perceive balancing act to be saying do the most vertical

01:41:01.440 --> 01:41:10.000
 construction of the varying types which was not the intention so you know i would be i'd be very

01:41:10.000 --> 01:41:21.200
 interested in a view that had that rural center as a trade-off for the maximum percentage of

01:41:21.200 --> 01:41:25.280
 conservation we haven't heard what the acreage is that having been said

01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:37.360
 i perceive a bit of creeping conviction we put 500 hours into this we've involved so many people

01:41:37.360 --> 01:41:45.200
 we're so far down the path but that can't keep you from going to a better answer if it's presented

01:41:45.200 --> 01:41:53.040
 so i'm interested in developing also with slides so it will seem as real to you as these two

01:41:54.080 --> 01:42:01.360
 what heartley field state park will look like maybe maybe it can happen maybe someday you'll

01:42:01.360 --> 01:42:05.840
 say you know gee there are only a few of us who expressed anything about it but now we're taking

01:42:05.840 --> 01:42:12.160
 our families to enjoy it now in 20 and 30 years that's our heritage that we in that we have

01:42:12.160 --> 01:42:24.640
 heartley field state park so let's shape that up thank you and then uh mayor pro tem just one more

01:42:24.640 --> 01:42:33.920
 point on that if that comes to pass that becomes state administered state land it doesn't decrease

01:42:33.920 --> 01:42:40.320
 the ability of the city to spread open space on city-owned property it increases it

01:42:41.120 --> 01:42:47.280
 because it doesn't require our funding to do it okay but bear with me i just need to track along

01:42:47.280 --> 01:42:51.920
 and then mayor pro tem with your indulgence she she wants to speak so right next to her and then

01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:56.880
 we'll run it up to you what land are you talking about who owns the land that you're talking about

01:42:56.880 --> 01:43:02.800
 that you would you've identified for a state park who owns it i don't think it's entirely up to me

01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:06.960
 to do all the work of the planning right no no doubt but you've spoken about uh you you have

01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:15.200
 this idea i just want to know what what so some of it's etj that's why that's why the virtue of

01:43:15.200 --> 01:43:22.240
 going to state you know becomes relevant because you know we look at a land at a map where you know

01:43:22.240 --> 01:43:26.960
 a lot of what we would like to be uh open space is not under city control so that's the whole point

01:43:26.960 --> 01:43:33.120
 of going to state but it's it's basically the maximum amount of the undeveloped land you know

01:43:33.120 --> 01:43:40.080
 a year ago i learned but i'm just i don't want to i don't want to lengthen the comment i'm just

01:43:40.080 --> 01:43:46.160
 asking it because they had the landowners up there and so i'm just asking you who owns the property

01:43:46.160 --> 01:43:50.160
 that you're referring to so that i can i just want to note that so i can track along with you

01:43:50.160 --> 01:43:55.600
 okay orion thank you all right okay that's fine but i will point out that

01:43:57.280 --> 01:44:05.040
 a year ago i learned that the amount of land that's come under development plans in the prior

01:44:05.040 --> 01:44:12.320
 six years is greater than the amount of undeveloped land that's left so this is a disappearing

01:44:12.320 --> 01:44:18.800
 heritage so if we don't act to preserve land like this we're going to be out of options very soon

01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:26.160
 okay right it was uh yeah and then we'll come back to mayor portin hello i'm susan smith on the

01:44:26.160 --> 01:44:32.800
 steering committee as a city resident and i just have one comment to make to reiterate what chris

01:44:32.800 --> 01:44:39.120
 said and i think what paul's saying is that i don't really feel like we're ready to decide on

01:44:39.120 --> 01:44:45.280
 either one of these options today because i don't really agree with either one of them i think the

01:44:45.280 --> 01:44:53.440
 business as usual is a misnomer we never indicated that we want no development in our neighborhood

01:44:53.440 --> 01:44:59.120
 group we absolutely expect some development but just the right kind of development that

01:44:59.120 --> 01:45:05.440
 follows the 2040 plan and the vision statement however we may interpret that and i think that's

01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:11.840
 what people are trying to come up with good solutions for and keep everybody happy we know

01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:19.600
 there will be development the balancing act as it stands to me looks a little heavy in areas like

01:45:19.600 --> 01:45:27.520
 heartley field road i i would like to keep that as a county road i also think it seems a little

01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:36.560
 heavy up by the elm bottom circle area in in some of the um density that's there so i really think

01:45:36.560 --> 01:45:46.560
 that we need modifications on either side whatever we decide but i'm very pro keeping to the 2040

01:45:46.560 --> 01:45:51.920
 plan and the vision statement that we developed i think everybody put a lot of work into that and

01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:57.280
 i agree with it so however we come up with that i just really don't think we're there yet thank

01:45:57.280 --> 01:46:03.600
 you and while you're walking around scott i do have i need an understanding county county road who

01:46:03.600 --> 01:46:12.400
 decides when that's developed um it's it's a county road so i right so does the city have a if the

01:46:12.400 --> 01:46:21.600
 developer is developing and it's going to require something addition to that then yes but is that a

01:46:21.600 --> 01:46:26.800
 county in a developer conversation or is a city invited to that conversation it may be a county

01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:32.560
 and city it may be a county and the developer it may be the city and the developer if again if the

01:46:32.560 --> 01:46:38.000
 if the property is in the county it's it's a county developer got it okay thank you mayor partem

01:46:39.600 --> 01:46:47.680
 thank you all um yeah i think it the naming of our options has set a tone that i think is very very

01:46:47.680 --> 01:46:57.280
 unfortunate um i think oh over two years ago the neighborhood came to the region with development

01:46:57.280 --> 01:47:05.120
 concepts that were developmental um they they were not um leave it in place uh change nothing

01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:12.080
 they were this is this is what the neighborhood has sort of collaboratively worked on and the

01:47:12.080 --> 01:47:16.720
 task that we gave them was community developed community based the words community were

01:47:16.720 --> 01:47:25.120
 first and foremost first and foremost in um in the mission and goals that we gave them

01:47:26.800 --> 01:47:36.880
 and the by and large uh the leaders of the of the steering committee um have you know communicated

01:47:36.880 --> 01:47:41.680
 with us both through the steering committee as an individuals the neighborhood has communicated

01:47:41.680 --> 01:47:48.000
 that there is a room and desire and and understanding of the growth potential of this region

01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:55.520
 and so i think again it's it's unfortunate that we chose business as usual versus

01:47:55.520 --> 01:48:02.640
 balancing act um you know those those names are you're not going to be able to convince me

01:48:02.640 --> 01:48:08.000
 that that doesn't buy us the conversation that we had today so i find those those names uh

01:48:08.000 --> 01:48:14.160
 unfortunate um a couple of things that you you heard from from members of the the stakeholder

01:48:14.160 --> 01:48:25.280
 community is is a way to increase usage of and main but while preserving which is in our 2040

01:48:25.280 --> 01:48:32.240
 plan the newest edition the the preferred land map preservation uh and so you know that there is

01:48:32.240 --> 01:48:37.600
 development with preservation that that that that is what the community came to the area is and

01:48:37.600 --> 01:48:45.440
 and i agree with those who have said that what we have here is sort of an incomplete product of

01:48:45.440 --> 01:48:54.400
 two disparate uh strategies where there it's not balancing act versus business as usual it is it is

01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:59.920
 two viewpoints that don't even represent the viewpoints of the the primary proponents

01:48:59.920 --> 01:49:06.080
 of those viewpoints so we have not gotten to a place of consensus um and we don't we have

01:49:06.080 --> 01:49:14.160
 not even gotten to a place of consensus with our regional partners as well there is um the the the

01:49:14.160 --> 01:49:19.200
 where i'm going with this is the the mobility plans are are coming through and they will

01:49:19.200 --> 01:49:25.920
 absolutely change and so that's going to have to be incorporated and yet they really weren't nothing

01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:31.040
 we were really presented with today addressed the those mobility plan changes and and i'm

01:49:31.040 --> 01:49:37.360
 particularly not talking about the fact that there will be uh 428 and the outer loop and the 380

01:49:37.360 --> 01:49:45.600
 expansion across 288 but the fact that all those proposed changes will require right of way changes

01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:51.520
 that there is currently not space for at least close to the city and definitely out as you get

01:49:51.520 --> 01:49:56.960
 towards core of engineer lands there's simply not right of way space and if you do you're taking it

01:49:56.960 --> 01:50:02.080
 out of these landowners properties for what finally the final point i want to bring in

01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:08.080
 is in our comp plan we try really hard to get away from what we did decades ago just strip zoning and

01:50:08.080 --> 01:50:14.800
 leapfrog zoning and the balancing act is a leapfrog zoning approach where we're leaping over an area

01:50:14.800 --> 01:50:23.520
 now is it the fault that there's a donut hole in in an etj donut hole yes it is the fault that we

01:50:23.520 --> 01:50:29.520
 have sort of a pseudo leapfrog happening there where we've left a big use gap and then we're

01:50:29.520 --> 01:50:36.320
 trying to leap into other uh usages that don't really transitionally align but then also i will

01:50:36.320 --> 01:50:44.640
 point out as my final comment and and the reason i'm giving direction of uh business as usual

01:50:44.640 --> 01:50:53.920
 with modifications is is that that donut hole itself if it was so easy to drop a mud in there

01:50:53.920 --> 01:51:01.360
 or an mmd or develop that as a 50 story high rise or a cement batch plant it would be there and

01:51:01.360 --> 01:51:06.560
 there is one cement batch plant and otherwise there's homes if it was that easy if the economic

01:51:06.560 --> 01:51:12.720
 pressures were there to make that happen it would have happened already all right so uh i my direction

01:51:12.720 --> 01:51:18.240
 is is uh is not for the balancing act but for the other now this is for staff though i would ask you

01:51:18.240 --> 01:51:22.640
 to what what how would you summarize that though if you have to put it in one line in one word

01:51:22.640 --> 01:51:27.360
 or a summary or phrase you don't like balancing act or business as usual what do you like

01:51:30.640 --> 01:51:35.040
 you you you mean for my direction or the name of yeah i'm just saying if staff's going to

01:51:35.040 --> 01:51:39.520
 come back with something and you don't you take issue with what they write your right to do so

01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:43.760
 but i think if you ever you're going to have a challenge or something you should have a solution

01:51:43.760 --> 01:51:48.160
 that that's very fair and so but it's it's easy to come up with a solution where you say something

01:51:48.160 --> 01:51:53.840
 like uh you know lower density in development or something like that where you are expressing a

01:51:53.840 --> 01:52:00.160
 characteristic of the feature of the development and not assessing um so lower density development

01:52:00.160 --> 01:52:07.440
 and what else um balancing act which which would be uh i don't know something more like on the realm

01:52:07.440 --> 01:52:12.880
 of you're forcing me to yeah and i'm saying you know staff have the same challenge right so i want

01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:18.560
 to be fair to them and and and just i understand you don't like the terminology but i just want

01:52:18.560 --> 01:52:22.720
 to choose a similar characteristic i'm not going to you know i'm going to say something like you

01:52:22.720 --> 01:52:28.640
 could say um um high density mixed use or something like that thank you wanted to compare them thank

01:52:28.640 --> 01:52:37.200
 you uh is there anyone else seeing none i i guess mayor just again i don't know that we have clear

01:52:37.200 --> 01:52:44.240
 direction so i'm just looking for what it is staff is to do going forward yeah no we we um we don't

01:52:44.240 --> 01:52:49.520
 and we're gonna we're gonna have to go because we have a two two o'clock and so we have to have time

01:52:49.520 --> 01:52:55.840
 to transition everyone and so um i i mean i can't i'll open the floor for comments you asked the last

01:52:55.840 --> 01:53:03.280
 couple no i i have not not yet but uh we'll go we'll go to uh commissioner villarreal and then

01:53:03.280 --> 01:53:09.920
 we'll we'll wrap up and we'll roll call council members is that yes thank you and i'm okay if we

01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:17.280
 call it a and b right thank you so uh just going back to the conversation that council member watts

01:53:17.280 --> 01:53:23.360
 brought up earlier i was wondering if we were going to do a more thorough process what differences

01:53:23.360 --> 01:53:29.040
 would you like to see us do in that in that process what changes would you like to see

01:53:29.040 --> 01:53:35.680
 what are you looking for in a more thorough thorough plan and and i will say that we can

01:53:35.680 --> 01:53:41.920
 take that guidance that's given to us uh it can get put into writing and then we can submit it to

01:53:41.920 --> 01:53:47.440
 the committee mayor okay yeah so what do you want to see is the in the in the plan in the future or

01:53:47.440 --> 01:53:51.920
 more detailed that's the that's just a general question we'll put it out there i have councilman

01:53:51.920 --> 01:53:59.120
 bird that expressed an interest in in the balanced approach as staffs name it option a and b right so

01:53:59.120 --> 01:54:06.960
 let's let's not yeah so a is a is on the left right is on the is b simple thing so um councilman bird

01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:15.920
 has expressed an interest for item b uh mayor pardon me pardon me thank you uh council and then

01:54:15.920 --> 01:54:24.320
 mayor pro tem has an option for a preference for uh option a and i need to hear from the others

01:54:24.320 --> 01:54:32.560
 i'm happy to call you our own councilman melter is is expressed a preference for option a uh

01:54:32.560 --> 01:54:42.560
 councilman holland option b b b no oh no well well no no no no i understand i just

01:54:43.200 --> 01:54:47.440
 the what's before says a or b i'll just put you as undecided that's great no no let's keep it

01:54:47.440 --> 01:55:00.880
 moving uh okay uh and then uh i think my questions can get answered in the process so i'm going to go

01:55:00.880 --> 01:55:18.640
 with the b okay uh councilman mcgee option b okay mayor hutzpeth is is here's my i'm a b with

01:55:18.640 --> 01:55:23.120
 modifications i don't want to i don't want to discuss the upper part i think that i take uh

01:55:23.120 --> 01:55:28.880
 mayor pro tem's point and i take the conversations we've had and that's too far for projection and

01:55:28.880 --> 01:55:34.960
 we're not going to do anything up there any anytime soon so it's b with the exception of

01:55:34.960 --> 01:55:42.560
 we're going to zero in on uh the right up to the green space there one and then two it with the

01:55:42.560 --> 01:55:52.720
 caveat that that it r whatever that is r4 is by plan uh or r6 with different shapes and different

01:55:52.720 --> 01:56:01.520
 uses if you have commercial uses i think you can get to uh r6 um and it looked like r4 on the ground

01:56:01.520 --> 01:56:11.280
 and meet the expectations and so suffice to say 2040 plan low density allows for five houses per

01:56:11.280 --> 01:56:25.680
 acre however that's calculated no no no no that's not is it wrong so remember low densities up to

01:56:25.680 --> 01:56:33.120
 five dwelling units per acre actually net whatever that total acreage is now low density not rural

01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:43.360
 low density the den 2040 okay all right yeah the other thing that that were mentioned by some of

01:56:43.360 --> 01:56:49.440
 the committee members that we want to make sure we're very clear on is a very clean and clear map

01:56:49.440 --> 01:56:55.840
 to delineate between city land and county land map out the development authority on each so you know

01:56:55.840 --> 01:57:02.560
 which one's county which one's city and then show current zoning and zoning levels so that you can

01:57:02.560 --> 01:57:08.000
 show very clearly county land zoning levels city land zoning level what is currently zoned as not

01:57:08.000 --> 01:57:12.800
 necessarily what it could be and and then the development authority a little note to say here's

01:57:12.800 --> 01:57:17.680
 development authority under the county here's the development authority under the city and it's

01:57:17.680 --> 01:57:24.800
 important to note scott correct me if i'm wrong nothing is going to be developed here without

01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:33.280
 intense conversations and meetings and all those things so nothing happens but for everyone having

01:57:33.280 --> 01:57:37.920
 an opportunity to be heard correct this was an opportunity for everyone to be heard to get some

01:57:37.920 --> 01:57:43.680
 general direction from council on which direction for us to go and we'll continue to work through

01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:48.880
 this and and ultimately i hear in this is is really the option b with some modification so

01:57:48.880 --> 01:57:53.040
 there are any number of things that we'll be bringing back to council to ask for their

01:57:53.040 --> 01:57:58.480
 direction and we'll just start drilling down or distilling this more each time we visit right but

01:57:58.480 --> 01:58:04.240
 there's no plan that's in in queue that's some stage of that's benefited by this conversation

01:58:04.240 --> 01:58:11.600
 nothing no nothing absolutely not perfect okay uh well right here the zoning maps that everyone's

01:58:11.600 --> 01:58:18.320
 asking uh they are in a powerpoint for student committee number two meeting it's on the website

01:58:18.320 --> 01:58:23.520
 and all these detailed plans are in that uh powerpoint can we get it out to the council

01:58:23.520 --> 01:58:28.560
 members as well we will we will we will make the new new drawings better but before that if

01:58:28.560 --> 01:58:33.120
 someone wanted to go home and see it i just wanted everyone to know and give that to me again it's

01:58:33.120 --> 01:58:44.320
 the steering committee meeting two yes may 30th meeting got it and it's in and it's um undiscussed

01:58:44.320 --> 01:58:54.720
 and got it thank you take a look okay very good uh so at uh well i'll let you conclude and i'll

01:58:54.720 --> 01:59:01.360
 conclude our uh thank you everyone for time um thanks commissioners for showing up this

01:59:01.360 --> 01:59:07.200
 afternoon i appreciate it i'll adjourn our joint meeting at 108 and i would conclude the city

01:59:07.200 --> 01:59:13.680
 council's meeting at 108 as well thank you thank you all thank all of you that came here today

01:59:14.320 --> 01:59:15.160
 (laughter)