1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,160 and begin so if you can call you your respective meetings to order okay uh today is tuesday august 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:15,120 first 2023 it is 11.09 a.m and we have a forum so i'll call the city council portion of the meeting 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:20,640 order and with the forum present on the planning and zoning commission i will call our meetings 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:29,520 okay so we only have one thing on our agenda today uh just to set the staff will do it as 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:38,160 well but it's a gather input from all parties then we will uh the council will make a recommendation 6 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:44,800 but want to make sure we have a good conversation around that decisions so with that first items 7 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:51,680 item a id 231193 receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding draft scenarios 8 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:58,080 for the northeast end area plan thank you mayor tina fergens i'm the deputy director of development 9 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,360 services so again as the mayor mentioned the goal for today is to have a collective discussion 10 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,840 amongst the commission and the steering committee and council but ultimately we do need to receive 11 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,160 policy direction from city council since they requested us to be able to do this project and 12 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,760 they customarily provide policy direction for the city um ultimately our goal coming out of the 13 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,160 meeting today is to receive direction regarding one of the two scenarios that is being presented 14 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:29,440 and hence where we need your feedback we do request that um so shy ruse with hdr is on the 15 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,320 consultant team that the city has retained to assist us with this project so i do ask that the 16 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:39,520 group um allow her to get through the various sections of her presentation we've got some breaks 17 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:45,680 programmed in to allow for some opportunities for question and clarification but really our goal is 18 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,400 to get to the proposed scenarios um so that we can have the discussion there and receive that 19 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,080 feedback if we start to go down a rabbit trail on a particular item let's make note of what that is 20 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,360 we can always come back at the end of the meeting time permitting and with that uh mayor chair ellis 21 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,880 if you do not have any questions of our team i'm going to go ahead and turn it over to shy 22 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,720 yeah i would like predicate though and so if it's a question that you can't note without a question 23 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,080 and to the presenter by all means otherwise just note your question we'll come back to it but if 24 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,320 it's something that is absolutely critical that hey i can't formulate my question and else i know 25 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,960 that please get my attention let's address those but other than that we're going to try to it just 26 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:32,960 be impossible the questions will take over so all right thank you yes thank you so 27 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:43,360 thank you tina and um good morning everyone and again thank you all so much for your time today 28 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:52,160 we'll move on to our slide here i'd especially like to thank the council appointed 15 members 29 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,520 steering committee that has been instrumental in guiding the project team to get the project to 30 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:05,280 this stage so jumping to the project overview part the background part here the northeast 31 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:13,600 denton area plan is a result of the 2040 comprehensive plan recommendation to study this area in further 32 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:22,400 detail in april of 2022 the city council directed staff to proceed with preparation of a community 33 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:30,160 community-based vision for the northeast denton area the key purpose of this area plan was to 34 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,560 respond effectively and efficiently to the developments that are being proposed in this 35 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:43,760 area and the resulting concerns raised by the community related to land use traffic open space 36 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:51,360 and the lack of environmental protection in the area so this area is bounded by clear creek to the 37 00:03:51,360 --> 00:04:04,000 east us 380 to the south loop 288 and fm 428 to the west and to the north by e sherman or the future 38 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:14,320 the future outer loop so the one one thing to know about this area though is out of this 39 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:24,880 8500 acre study area only about 47 percent is in the city limits and the majority which is over 53 40 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:34,720 percent is in the outside and not outside the city's jurisdiction so the biggest challenge for any 41 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:44,160 planning effort in this area is that the city can only influence development on 47 percent of this 42 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:52,240 study area unless the property owners choose to annex into the city so this plan shows in the 43 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:58,480 slides in the next you'll see that this plan shows recommendations for future land use 44 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:07,440 in the etj area which is in the county sphere of influence only so that the city will be prepared 45 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:13,360 in case these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the future 46 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:21,600 therefore when you see land use or policy ideas that are outside city limits please keep in mind 47 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:29,920 that at this time the city cannot ensure that these ideas or proposed uses will happen so 48 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:39,120 in addition to addressing the development the purpose of this plan is also to ensure an inclusive 49 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:46,320 community dialogue to develop a collective vision for the future of the area to identify areas of 50 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:54,880 change or areas of preservation and to develop some ideas for future improvements and to make 51 00:05:54,880 --> 00:06:01,360 recommendations about the capital improvements to meet this collective vision of the community 52 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:10,000 here's a quick look at the timeline for the planning process we spent january through april 53 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:20,000 in the area collecting data researching and engaging the community we presented our findings 54 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:30,480 it doesn't point my apologies we presented these findings to the steering committee in may 55 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:37,680 and also worked with the steering committee to finalize a draft of the vision statement 56 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:45,280 at this meeting and we spent the summer developing two scenarios their options 57 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:51,200 and both of which reflect the vision statement once we have direction from you on which scenario 58 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,600 to use we will incorporate your feedback into our recommendations and then spend the next three 59 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:05,200 months getting community input in various settings like an open house online and public public 60 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:15,120 hearings the anticipated adoption date for this plan is november of 2023 so as mentioned we engaged 61 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:22,560 the community for four months the goal was to involve and to understand the vision the desires 62 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:29,520 the challenges of all stakeholders of the northeast area the current residents as well as the 63 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:38,080 stakeholders like business owners property owners that don't reside in the area visitors workforce 64 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:47,680 and even future residents of this area with this in mind we started with stakeholder interviews with 65 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:55,520 25 people then for the community at large we conducted two in-person visioning workshops 66 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:03,760 and an online survey 265 people attended the in-person workshop 44 people took the online 67 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:11,360 survey we then conducted a strategic foresight workshop with 39 participants that ranged across 68 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,960 all age groups professional backgrounds and interests in northeast denton and so on 69 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:24,720 a detailed description of the community engagement events and the results are posted online on 70 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:34,240 discuss denton under the project link so if the participants total participants 201 provided their 71 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:44,480 addresses we've mapped these here for you of these 201 overall 89 were city residents 112 were county 72 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:52,800 residents out of those 201 participants 140 people lived in the northeast denton area plan 73 00:08:53,840 --> 00:09:02,880 study area and of those part of our participants living in the study area 43 live within the city 74 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:12,240 limits and 97 live in the county so in summary in the stakeholder interviews we heard that elected 75 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:20,240 officials wanted this plan to manage expectations residents wanted to keep the zoning as is meaning 76 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:26,320 five acre minimum lots preserve green space preserve small town rural environment and 77 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:35,200 developers wanted some higher density with in to allow the preservation of open space or to be 78 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:41,840 allowed to build according to market demand everyone agreed that respecting and preserving 79 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:50,480 the natural environment of northeast denton is important here we see what some of the summary of 80 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:58,240 what we the themes that we saw coming out of the visioning workshop and these themes are preserving 81 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:07,600 natural field preserving green spaces maintaining rural area limiting construction keeping the area 82 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:17,280 affordable enhancing outdoor activities and making the area walkable we also held the strategic 83 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:23,920 foresight workshop where we asked the participants to consider future trends and imagine potential 84 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:30,960 scenarios for the year 2050 so during the workshop again the consensus was on preserving and 85 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:37,920 celebrating the natural environment the majority asked for no more apartments but not all stakeholders 86 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:44,960 were against apartments in fact a diversity of housing and live work environment but in a rural 87 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:52,400 setting were popular among the majority of the participants and the scenarios we we took the 88 00:10:52,400 --> 00:11:01,520 vision statement generated at this workshop and conducted an online voting we received 123 responses 89 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:07,600 of these 69 responses voted for the vision statement developed by the friends of northeast 90 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:14,000 denton we presented this to the steering committee and the committee modified some of the words and 91 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:20,320 phrases what you see here is the steering committee recommendation i won't read the whole 92 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,200 statement but as you can see we've highlighted the central themes of this vision statement 93 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:32,800 environmental preservation rural character conservation development and an area that 94 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:41,200 is valued and enjoyed by all of dentin so keeping these main themes in mind we started our existing 95 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:48,720 conditions analysis with natural systems so the purpose of the map to the left shows you the 96 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:55,600 existing floodplain on the map to the right you can see that there are creeks and channels in the 97 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:03,040 area that are not fema designated however these still function like the land in the floodplain 98 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:10,240 in our environmentally fragile areas that should be cared for similar to the land designated in 99 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:19,840 the floodplain as we've seen in the northeast denton area itself any development whether it's 100 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:28,160 agriculture or five acre lots or higher density it all requires repairing restoring preservation 101 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:35,520 and or enhancement strategies if we want to preserve a natural environment or natural systems 102 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:42,800 so we studied these five types of environmentally sensitive areas designated by the city of denton 103 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:50,240 and the existing ecosystems to understand areas needing repair and restoration due to the impacts 104 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,760 of existing development and lack of maintenance and the areas needing preservation 105 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:03,680 and the areas where enhanced interventions could mitigate the impacts of future developments 106 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,160 we wanted to determine the strategies that would be needed depending upon the type of development 107 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:17,520 so we then also analyze conditions that may impact the future of this area as you can see 108 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:24,720 on this map growth is moving not just towards dentin but also towards northeast dentin specifically 109 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:32,000 the thoroughfare plan here shows northeast dentin study area bounded on all sides by major existing 110 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:38,080 or proposed regional thoroughfares making it easily accessible to the rest of the region 111 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:45,920 with two major universities a lively downtown eclectic music and art scene and a unique vibe 112 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:53,760 denton's popularity as a place to live is only going to increase and thereby bring more development 113 00:13:53,760 --> 00:14:02,640 to the northeast dentin area large parcel developments large parcels of undeveloped land 114 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:09,440 under single ownership in the study area will be instrumental in shaping the future of this area 115 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:16,640 but as you can see on this map only only properties labeled one five six and seven 116 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:24,560 are in the city limits with property labeled five being city owned parkland all the rest of the large 117 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:31,200 properties are in the etj and outside city's ability to influence any future development 118 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:37,760 on this land unless these property owners or developers choose to annex into the city in the 119 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:49,280 future a summary of the developable land analysis shows 3,300 acres or 45 percent of the land area 120 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:56,480 is protected flood zone and parkland but there is still 3,000 acres or 30 percent of the study area 121 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:05,120 that is undeveloped surrounded by well-connected existing future transportation network directly 122 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:12,480 in the path of development especially coming west along us 380 from mckinney to aubrey to denton 123 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:20,240 there is also 24 percent of developed land that can always be redeveloped and again all of this 124 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:27,120 the city can only influence development on about 47 percent of this area 125 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:41,520 next we'll uh i'm sorry yeah next we looked at the demographics that will influence the future 126 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:48,000 development the largest population as you can see on this slide especially in the study area 127 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:58,240 is gen gen z which is people aged between eight six and 25 in the northeast denton study area 128 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:09,680 57 population is under the age of 40 and citywide over 60 of the population is under the age of 40 129 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:19,920 we also looked at workforce in the area as you can see 1361 people come into this area daily 130 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,120 and that is before counting the employment that will be created from the new warehouse and 131 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,680 industrial developments along mingle road these workers are also people who might look 132 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:38,240 to move to northeast denton to be closer to their jobs these are some of the factors to consider 133 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:46,080 address and balance alongside the community input to choose the future scenario for the northeast 134 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:54,960 denton for the project team to develop further so before we continue um we'll open it up for any 135 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:03,280 questions up until this point if you all have um okay question of clarification to make sure you 136 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:11,200 yeah i'm sorry so shea sorry vicki mcgovern i'm a part of the steering committee i'm part of the 137 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:20,240 etj so shea you had mentioned that the city has no um say if you will in anything in the etj and 138 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:26,000 i just want to clarify the question is there not a collaboration at all between the county and the 139 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,680 city that's that's point one number two i will say that i recently as being part of the etj 140 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:44,160 replatted my land of seven acres and i was oversaw seen if you will by the city so there is some level 141 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:51,520 of influence because i had to go through the city to get that replat done so i just want for the 142 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:59,040 broader spectrum to know that there is some level and i'd like clarity on the collaboration of that 143 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:05,840 sure and that's a that's a question we'll come back to certainly thank you uh i've noted it staff's 144 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:12,640 noted it we will councilman watts yeah just just a couple of data questions um i'll try to go 145 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:18,240 backwards so that i remember on the slide that shows the developmental area i think it was slide 146 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,920 24 to 30 percent and all that we can go back to that i just want to understand from my own 147 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,760 it's got the little high graph i'm sorry i'm trying to go back circle a little 148 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:48,720 right there uh is that just the acreage within the city limit boundaries of the plan is that 149 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:56,160 the total plan i'm sorry could you repeat that sure are the acreage uh numbers represented on 150 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:03,760 this slide based upon the 8500 acres of the plan or the just the city portion 8500 acres sir 151 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:10,640 do you know what the breakdown is for the city land that's in the plan for that slide 152 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:19,040 not off the top of my head but i can definitely calculate it by the end sure uh there's just a 153 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:27,200 couple more mayor sorry um let's see uh on the floodplain on the slide that shows the floodplain 154 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:34,880 and the acreage associated with it you said there's so many acres in the floodplain 155 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:42,720 and now i'm okay just so that i understand any acreage calculations moving forward in the 156 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:49,680 presentation are based upon the 8500 there's nothing that says hey here's what's in the city 157 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:57,280 floodplain here's what's in the etj or county floodplain is that okay so then on the floodplain 158 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,720 so if i could get that as well that breakdown if we could on what floodplain is in the city 159 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:11,440 and what designated floodplain by fema and so then total not when you say the total number of acres 160 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:18,560 in the floodplain is that representing the acreage that's designated by fema plus the acreage you say 161 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:26,000 quote unquote functions as a floodplain no only the acreage designated by fema is calculated in the 162 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,800 floodplain okay all right uh let's see uh i think that i've got other questions but they're more 163 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:42,640 substantive questions or not okay so then my understanding is the the acreage of the 164 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:51,760 largest landowners it's in the city portion where those four landowners one five six one five six 165 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:59,760 seven and that totaled up 1538 acres when you add those up and then you're saying how much of the 166 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:09,280 plan is in the city is was it four thousand or 3800 or 47 percent of 8500 approximately here or 167 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,600 there okay all right thank you mayor appreciate it yeah and i'm sorry i can't see you that's that 168 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:21,280 yeah i just got also equal kind of clarification on data so when you said the average home is low 169 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:29,280 three hundredths are those new homes in the area or those existing homes in the area i heard the 170 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,560 number new cost cost on homes is low three hundreds 171 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:45,440 yeah i'm just asking this because i can't find a home of under three hundred and ninety thousand 172 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:52,720 dollars in the area anyway in the area in that area so i'm just kind of qualifying when we talk 173 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,640 about affordability on homes and you say low 300 i'm not finding anything under 390 in that area 174 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:15,840 that's new right and we're talking about new development oh okay that was from stakeholder 175 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,520 interviews my apologies so in the stakeholder interviews that is what the developers had 176 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:29,600 presented is what the starter home is at okay i did they qualify where they were looking at 177 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:38,160 i was told in denton a starter home is considered three hundred thousand is what the ideal is that 178 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:44,800 not really narrowed down and then secondly um i think there's some just just disconnect 179 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:51,200 between how many people voted for the options other than the seven proposed vision statements 180 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:57,600 um if i i i recall correctly there were 189 other votes aside from the seven proposed vision 181 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,000 statements i just want to kind of clarify because you said that there were 70 or whatever it was 182 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,640 that were specifically copy and pasted from what we proposed but i understand there was a significant 183 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,120 other amount that modified that i just want to make sure that we're aware that it was substantially 184 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:16,800 larger amount of people that voted for anything other than the seven i will need to go back and 185 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:24,800 double check how many because my data that i did look at for this presentation i had 123 total 186 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:31,760 people that responded to it so i will double check where the 189 numbers come from and i'll 187 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:47,040 get back to you that's okay okay go right ahead yes at the end that that i've noted it but i don't 188 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,840 i don't know that there's an answer we can give you that would then inform other questions it's 189 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:57,360 just a question generally uh for the for the group but in summary and i've noted all of them and 190 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:02,880 noticed i didn't answer any of them because uh we're gonna let her finish but i i hope that 191 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,200 the information provided helps people jot down their questions for the end of presentation that's 192 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:15,120 my goal okay so looking at uh both scenarios that are being presented today meet the vision 193 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:23,440 statement they both prioritize um environmental preservation they both honor the rural character 194 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:29,360 of the area and both recommend conservation development that protects open space and green 195 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:37,040 ways and both strive to establish northeast denton as a special area for all of dentin to enjoy so 196 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:44,960 without further ado the two scenarios are business as usual and balancing act the business as usual 197 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:52,320 scenario is based on just the community desire without accounting for the development the 198 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:59,200 balancing act scenario is based on community desire while accounting for the future developments 199 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,040 we developed a set of character areas and roadway cross-sections that would be compatible with the 200 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:11,280 vision statement as well as serve the needs of the proposed and anticipated types of future 201 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:19,280 developments as again as i mentioned previously an important point to keep in mind is that while 202 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:26,720 we show land uses and roadway recommendations in the etj outside the city limits this is just 203 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:34,320 aspirational and in case property owners wish to annex otherwise the city has no jurisdiction to 204 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:41,120 ensure that these land uses and densities are in fact followed i'll describe the character areas 205 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:46,320 and then come back so you can relate the colors on the map to the character areas better 206 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:57,120 oh geez so the green on the maps is meant for the conservation or the natural areas for 207 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:03,360 environmental protection as well as for recreation areas and then the yellow is rural residential 208 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:11,280 two to five acre lots the orange is residential transition an area about three to five dwelling 209 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:18,240 units per acre overall density but with some neighborhood retail and large public open space 210 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:26,400 is to transition the high intensity uses into the rural residential and then the dark lime 211 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:33,920 which you'll see at the intersection of mingo and collins road is a rural village center this 212 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:40,720 area is envisioned as a mix of residential and commercial uses in one or two story buildings 213 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:50,880 with a rural village feel main main street style setting and this land use we want to let you know 214 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:57,520 we've shown it in this area but it could be used as a transition between residential and residential 215 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:05,840 transition in other areas as appropriate these three character areas gateway town center and 216 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:13,440 industrial were developed to respond to some of the existing and anticipated future developments 217 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:20,880 based on regional transportation improvements in the area the purpose of these character areas 218 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:27,040 is to provide development guidelines to ensure preservation and enhancement of natural areas 219 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:34,160 while accommodating the grocery stores and retail the community wanted as you can see in this town 220 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:40,720 center image at the bottom providing higher density on a smaller land area can allow for 221 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:48,640 preservation of larger open spaces so coming back to the scenarios first business as usual 222 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:57,040 under business as usual most of the study area is designated as rural residential this is regardless 223 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:05,200 of the future plans for expansion of 428 or into a six lane thoroughfare and the construction of 224 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:12,800 outer loop north along sherman in in addition to the rural residential business as usual provides 225 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:22,720 for residential transition and industrial on the southern edges to us 380 and loop 288 next looking 226 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,440 at the balancing act the balancing act scenario considers market impact of these regional thoroughfares 227 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:39,440 yeah that second to the right is the balancing act and this one considers in addition to the 228 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,880 regional thoroughfares it does consider current and future younger demographics in this study 229 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:54,160 area and citywide so north of bottom circle you can see on the map here and adjacent to the outer 230 00:28:54,160 --> 00:29:02,400 loop and fm 428 these areas have been designated for gateway and town center uses residential 231 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:09,360 transition is proposed just south of these higher intensity uses with rural residential 232 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:16,960 and conservation areas to protect the natural environment in this scenario the area between 233 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:28,800 fm 428 loop 288 and ferrish road the orange area to the west of sorry the rural residential 234 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:35,600 this has been designated as residential transition in this scenario this reflects some of the existing 235 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:43,120 developments in this area and it also is a means to balance the development and preservation 236 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:51,280 by allowing for more density but with larger public open spaces we hope that this will both 237 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:58,160 protect the rural residential and the natural environment in the to the east in addition this 238 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:05,760 also keeps the cost of infrastructure cost of new infrastructure lower by allowing for new development 239 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:13,920 to happen where the existing infrastructure is the next few slides are just examples to help everyone 240 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:20,240 envision what residential transition areas and the rural residential could look like and how these 241 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,440 character areas relate to the vision statement so the red shows you where this site plan has 242 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:35,600 been considered or some ideas of this site plan if you stand in on collins there's a little 243 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,280 directional map up there showing where the person standing and the view looking out towards rural 244 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:49,760 residential again there's a little map showing where the view is looking towards the park 245 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:56,320 you can see these are all one or two story buildings this one is standing at the edge 246 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:05,120 looking towards the industrial and then on this one it's up on the north where on one side you're 247 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,600 looking out into rural residential seeing some of the residential transition and then looking into 248 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:22,720 your more mixed use type from one location so going forward we assume densities for each 249 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,800 scenario and calculated rough estimates of the traffic counts these are definitely not traffic 250 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:35,520 impact analysis level trip generation but have only been developed to give us an idea about the 251 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:43,520 cross-section street cross-sections that would be needed for both people and cars to navigate the 252 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:50,720 area safely in the future the one thing i'd like to point out in this is that while the land use 253 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:59,760 shown in the etj south of heartley field is the same in both scenarios if you can see the 3460 254 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:09,600 and on the other it is 27750 so this is because in the balancing act scenario we counted existing 255 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:18,640 lots and houses and then assume market densities similar to the current development applications 256 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:25,600 that the city's been receiving from the developers for the rest of the area so we added the two 257 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:32,240 and the thought here was that while the city can deny these applications in the city limits 258 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:40,000 in the etj the developers can just move these proposals to the county area as the demand for 259 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:48,960 housing in this area increases so using these densities and traffic counts we developed the 260 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,720 roadway infrastructure for each scenario a key difference from the existing thoroughfare plan 261 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:03,760 that we'd shown earlier to this one is that the proposed east west primary arterial has been 262 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:11,920 downgraded to a secondary arterial and it does not go past the green belt anymore also while we kept 263 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,400 the classification names the secondary arterial commercial collector these names are the same as 264 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:24,320 they exist in the current city thoroughfare plan we are proposing cross sections that will be more 265 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,960 compatible with the vision for the area so here's some examples of the cross section for secondary 266 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:40,080 arterial which is rural section section of hartley field road between collins road and purist these 267 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:49,120 are two options you can use them in that section then here is a secondary arterial cross section 268 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:56,400 for the residential transition area which would be west of hartley field so you can see we're trying 269 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:03,760 to make sure that the cross sections in this area do match the vision and the character of the area 270 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:14,880 so we also studied so and we we performed an environmental and fiscal impact for both the 271 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:22,480 scenarios for environmental impact we considered land in both city limits and outside the city 272 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:30,800 limits but for fiscal impact we only considered land within the city limits in business as usual 273 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,440 scenario we assume needing restoration and preservation strategies one of the main 274 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:45,840 environmental mitigation challenges in this scenario is the large land set asides that 275 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:51,840 will be needed to offset the lower density development sprawl which becomes difficult 276 00:34:51,840 --> 00:35:01,120 with privately owned properties and open space for for balancing act we assumed repair and enhance 277 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:08,400 strategies in addition to the restoration and preservation strategies while in this scenario 278 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,960 targeted development areas allow for more publicly accessible land to incorporate the restoration and 279 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:23,280 preservation lack of certainty about specific development configurations makes it difficult 280 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:30,560 to plan improvements without major public investment so in summary both scenarios have their 281 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:37,120 own challenges in implementing the environmental strategies and they both have similar costs 282 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:45,440 the balancing scenario cost estimates are 25 to 50 million higher however the balancing act scenario 283 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:52,960 also includes strategies for repair and enhancement of the natural systems and it also allows for 284 00:35:52,960 --> 00:36:00,880 considerable cost burden to be shifted from public sector to private sector we use city's 285 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:07,200 fiscal impact model to conduct a high level analysis of property but as mentioned earlier 286 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:14,000 we only applied this model to within the city limits to each of the scenario we use this model 287 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:22,400 to calculate the revenues and the expenditures that is to get the net city fiscal impact for 288 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:32,160 each of the scenarios over 40 years let's start with business yeah let's start with 289 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:40,080 business as usual scenario in this scenario we used assumptions that you see on the slide here 290 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:47,040 the rural residential has five acre lots and residential transition is a blend of small lots 291 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:57,600 we assume that the areas south of hardly feel are similar on both the 292 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:08,400 business as usual and the balancing act scenario and this is because in this scenario it's likely 293 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,720 that the county areas may develop high with higher densities and the traffic generated from 294 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:21,440 this higher development will leave the etj and travel onto the city roads when planning for 295 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,640 infrastructure costs the city will want to be prepared to build infrastructure to accommodate 296 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:34,880 these higher traffic counts in the balancing act scenario we use densities you see here on the 297 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:46,800 slide for for example was modeled with development clustered together in open spaces i am obviously 298 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:53,520 reading from the wrong thing so let me go back to the slide here my apologies so we did look at both 299 00:37:53,520 --> 00:38:02,800 the we had some assumptions for these business as usual as well as the balancing act and the 300 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:10,640 only difference is in the business as usual south of hartley field we considered it exactly the same 301 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:18,400 as we did for the balancing act and like i said earlier the reason for this was that we don't know 302 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:23,680 how it will develop and the city will want to be prepared in case there is a higher density 303 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:29,200 development that goes in there that you all can't control because that traffic will come on to your 304 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:37,760 city streets in addition the way we looked at the assumptions was for business as usual we had it 305 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:49,120 laid out as the entire area divided into lots five acre lots and basically what that did was 306 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:55,600 it passed on the maintenance and restoration of natural environment the cost of it to the 307 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:04,880 private property owner in our balancing act we we assumed that the development would occur on a 308 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:14,160 smaller pocket with higher amount of land publicly accessible land at which time the costs of 309 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,640 environmental protection or maintenance went away or the private property owner was relieved of that 310 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:31,520 cost so looking at the two estimates what we got was for business as usual your net impact is 2.3 311 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:40,240 billion and for balancing act it's 6.3 billion the additional open space you get for business as 312 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:51,280 usual is 442 acres and for balancing act is 627 acres so summarizing this the difference is that 313 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:59,600 the main difference is that we basically have a fiscal impact on the city's general fund 314 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:06,640 with the balancing act scenario results in four billion dollars more in revenue and almost 200 315 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:14,800 acres more in publicly available open space the cost estimates for mitigating environmental impacts 316 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:21,840 are about 25 to 50 million less in business as usual than in the balancing act scenario 317 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:29,040 with most of the restoration left to individual property owners but the main difference in these 318 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:35,920 scenarios is that the balancing act scenario prepares the city for future infrastructure needs 319 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:42,480 and also allows for sharing of infrastructure and environmental mitigation costs with private 320 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:51,760 development so these are quick summary takeaways now we'd like to ask you all for direction on 321 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:59,120 today the direction on one of these two scenarios business as usual or the balancing act yes sir 322 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:09,840 yeah um that that concludes your presentation yes okay great do you have the answers to those 323 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:17,040 other questions before we dig in so questions yeah the questions one was around uh collaboration 324 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,400 with the county i know we have to answer that because i already asked it and so it's on the 325 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:27,120 sheet if someone wants to just read it with respect to how the city and the county collaborate um on 326 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:37,120 so in terms of the city and county collaboration i'll be uh i don't know which number you're 327 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,520 referring to because i just received this but normally we do have good strong partnership 328 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:46,560 in collaboration with denton county that's why we have steven belknap here that is serving on 329 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:54,960 the steering committee as well so and the bottom line is platting authority in our etj area etj1 330 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:01,200 we had an interlocal agreement with denton county in etj1 the city provides platting 331 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:08,080 etj2 the county provides platting so in denton county someone that does not live in a corporate 332 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:14,400 limit will plot their property and have to follow subdivision regulations it does not address the 333 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,360 number of buildings the size of buildings the use of buildings or the mass of buildings and the only 334 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:27,440 regulation then with the city is an etj1 and it relates to the platting authority and sorry may 335 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:34,560 i just add so when we said that city has no jurisdiction or cannot influence development 336 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:43,280 we're talking about land use authority so you can divide subdivide a property you have to subdivide 337 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,040 it well the city has to say yes as long as all the utilities are provided to the property but 338 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:58,560 city cannot say no to land use right bear with me let me get your first rate and then land amount 339 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:04,240 of land in the city in the plan did you have a chance to look at that so that was councilman 340 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,200 watts's question we can come back to it if you hadn't we'll have to follow up with that we're 341 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:19,920 calculating and same within the floodplain still calculate got it okay and then um how many people 342 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,760 voted that you you have you still calculating looking at that right 123 versus 189 yeah i just 343 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,640 need to go back to the okay yeah no problem just wanted to touch on them okay uh councilman melts 344 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:36,320 well thank you very much for your indulgence yeah thank you um i want to track a little bit of the 345 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:47,040 sequence of events and and add a very important piece uh attended a okay i want to track a little 346 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,400 bit of the sequence of events and add a very important piece i attended some of the community 347 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,480 input and i think a very telling exercise that's reflected in everything here was the the visual 348 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,960 one where people placed red dots by images of various types of development and and uh by and 349 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:10,080 large if the rectangle was predominantly green correct me if i'm wrong that's where the red 350 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:19,360 dots were anything vertical construction pavement not uh and that's uh that's reflected in the vision 351 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:24,240 statement that came out from the steering committee i think we're talking about early may 352 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:31,680 uh that talks about prioritizing environmental preservation and healthy recreation honoring 353 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,320 rural character protecting open space and greenways and establishing northeast dentin 354 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:44,720 is a special place for all of dentin to enjoy uh now we also heard that the city only influences 355 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:54,000 40 some odd percent because it's etj uh but as i get to this last event uh i ask you well who 356 00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:00,960 does influence in the city and out of the city i'm going to answer that question in late may 357 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:09,280 after our meetings after these two uh visions were kind of crafted governor greg abbott 358 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:17,360 signs legislation authorizing a billion dollar fund to buy land for new parks and expand existing 359 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:23,840 ones now you might say well how would would they notice our little part of the world even though 360 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:30,720 we're one of the fastest growing parts of texas well tell you who the author of the bill and the 361 00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:39,760 resolution uh was in the house it was tan parker tan parker from flower mound uh so when i look at 362 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:47,360 the the bipartisan acknowledgement that texas is under parked when i look at the fact that our 363 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:54,560 population is growing and our parks per park acreage per capita is shrinking and the fact 364 00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:01,520 that this area has a variety of ecosystems it has already planned accessibility and that 365 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:10,240 this direction could provide a fair return to landowners and achieve the preservation goals 366 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:19,600 that the neighbor so clearly requires uh i i ask that that be uh investigated seriously as an 367 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:25,360 option i've mentioned it to staff and the response has been interesting we'll monitor with all due 368 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,800 respect i don't think that's how you get it done i think it requires putting together a proposal 369 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,560 and a plan that speaks to the ecosystems the accessibility the population growth the unique 370 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,520 features and the fact that it could be adjacent to clear creek reminds me of how big ben's got a 371 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:49,840 state park adjacent to a big national park you could have a big contiguous area so uh submitted 372 00:46:49,840 --> 00:47:03,440 for your consideration all right um so i'm gonna try thank you appreciate it we only have an hour 373 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,720 if you want to hear what i'm speaking then then we'll have to be uh a little more efficient so 374 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:14,080 thank you very much i appreciate your support for the comments um that being said any anyone 375 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:20,000 asks a question hadn't asked question first time around let's get those uh let's go suzy and then 376 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,880 uh did i see your hand councilman bird oh no okay and then uh mayor pro tem suzy and the mayor 377 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:35,440 um i was curious if the fiscal analysis included i was curious if the fiscal analysis included um 378 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,720 anything beyond when we actually replace the infrastructure because 40 is a little 379 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,960 around the time we might start to replace or a little before we start to replace infrastructure 380 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,920 i know we've got um the next bond that's going to come up is going to be road heavy a lot of that is 381 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,480 road replacement reconstruction that kind of thing so i'm curious if we're accounting for 382 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,480 that when we're comparing the option a option b the replacement part 383 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:10,640 all right sorry i've got a big voice anyway i work first i am a senior commiss with uh in north 384 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:16,880 texas area the particular model that we were using which is the one that is developed by okay 385 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,400 which is the one that it has been development is being used by the city of denton uh i understand 386 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:29,440 does take into account some of the um replacement costs especially what you're doing with roads 387 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,480 especially since uh this particular physical impact model went out 40 years so yes that's 388 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,080 something i did notice a lot of them uh physical impact models go from about 20 to 30 but this one 389 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:45,680 does go out and did take into account um the replacement of particular types of roads 390 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:58,000 thank you all um so i'm going to follow up with that with another a couple of economic questions 391 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:04,640 for the model which i was unclear on um if we're it seems like the the correct me if i'm wrong that 392 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:12,880 the the fiscal impact was just the region just the 8,500 acres less than 8,500 acres the fiscal 393 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:19,680 impact was only that property that's in city limits because outside there's no tax revenue coming in 394 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:28,160 so the the 39.95 or 4,000 acres that's about 4,000 yes sir um okay so um when we're doing 395 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:36,080 this sort of analysis we have to take into account i think um the a couple of environmental factors 396 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:43,760 and and economic factors that i'm not sure i want to ask about um when in general a lot of the 397 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:51,600 factors uh for economics both in the region and in the detton region writ large will be determined 398 00:49:51,600 --> 00:50:00,560 by uh vmt vehicle miles traveled and so if if you're looking at the the number of vehicle miles 399 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:07,600 traveled it'll it'll impact the environmental costs and the roadway installation costs and 400 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:15,680 the roadway replacement costs and so i i'm curious if you have an assessment on the sort of level of 401 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:24,320 vmt that changes between the two models and if you consider um the city as a whole uh because that 402 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:29,120 that's a destination point for the city it's envisioned as a destination point for the city 403 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:36,320 and so what are the what are the roadway impacts and both in terms of installation replacement and 404 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:43,680 then when we're doing stormwater runoff lower levels of miles and different types of road 405 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:49,280 installation will and the vmt's on those different types of roads say etj roads where they might be 406 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:56,240 bar ditch or something else will will impact environmental costs and remediation costs so i 407 00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:02,160 know that was a lot but it all circles around what are the vmt's and what are the associated costs 408 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:10,480 environmental and economic of the vmt's so i was gonna try to answer the environmental side so with 409 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:17,680 the environmental costs we did consider what you've just talked about the vehicle miles travel the 410 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:23,360 impact of it and doing that whole stormwater infrastructure that will be needed and now i'll 411 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:32,880 let um on the physical impact portion um yes it was separated from the the environmental and they 412 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:41,040 did a a separate portion to uh put that into the overall analysis so with the physical impact yes 413 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:49,200 the um not specifically vmt but essentially the road uh ways were uh impacted as far as 414 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:55,600 the lane miles and so the for the various scenarios that went on we adjusted the lane miles 415 00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:02,160 which then adjusted that and took into account the vmt and the road in the traffic and it also 416 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,640 not only is just the lane miles that are increased but the type of road whether it's going to be 417 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:15,360 asphalt or concrete so those two combinations had an impact on that particular uh model used by the 418 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,920 city in order to uh bring in a lot of the issues that you're talking about as far as vmt as far as 419 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:29,280 traffic and those are portions that go into that particular impact model okay first time questions 420 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:37,040 anyone else before we go back around seeing none okay um i think travis you had it succinctly as 421 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:44,160 possible and then um vicki and councilor watson yeah i guess i got two questions so the first 422 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:50,800 one is kind of relating to uh mr brian back here said um so when we talk about this movement of 423 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:56,880 vehicle vehicles and stuff we has anybody studied the impact that this is going to have on the inner 424 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,840 city of denton in terms of we've got all these allocated money that's going to be going to this 425 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:09,440 area granted i as a as a neighbor of northeast denton when i go wanting the village type feel 426 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:14,560 i go into downtown right because that's exactly what it is when i talk to people about this the 427 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,520 question becomes why even go downtown anymore if there's a village place right there so has 428 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:27,040 anybody studied the impact of not infilling downtown but rather moving that stuff that makes 429 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:33,440 downtown unique outward toward us what impact is that going to have on downtown that's my first 430 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:43,840 question but all wait yeah i don't well i'll take i'll take staffs so it's outside it's a question 431 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:50,400 about outside the area right uh and so i'll however you want to address that well as population grows 432 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,920 so too will be those those centers that we need to have so we reduce traffic by virtue of having 433 00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:01,920 different city centers if you will um where those where those people can congregate or go 434 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,600 do what it is that they're doing so i i think it's i think it's somewhat in the equation shy 435 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,800 and we are collaborating with the consultant who's doing your downtown redevelopment plan 436 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:18,720 anyways so some of these ideas we're going to make sure that we're not recommending something 437 00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:23,760 in one part of your city that the other part of the city is going to get damaged by so we are 438 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:31,040 collaborating and downtown will have a very distinct special vibe it definitely will not be 439 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:40,160 the rural village center it will probably end up being more vibrant and more intense okay shy can 440 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:49,680 you please put up slide 31 do i need the mic yes so i just want to this is a clarifying comment 441 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:58,480 no sorry it was one of the other ones that showed the um the higher density the orange and the yellow 442 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:07,040 but you had the numbers listed in the traffic analysis so i want to just point out south first 443 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:15,040 off heartley field road is a county maintained road except for at the very end down here that's 444 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:24,080 number one number two this is existing i'm sorry this is existing neighborhood in here anything 445 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:32,000 west of ferris is existing neighborhood i happen to be as i mentioned i'm on a was on a seven acre 446 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:41,120 parcel and i replatted and my restrictions because we were on septic and a well means one house per 447 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:48,960 two acres all of that this neighborhood anything west of ferris is all under those restrictions 448 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:57,200 so when you talk about raising the count west of ferris to 13 000 trips by the way calculated at 449 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:04,000 the rates that the city has come up with that's seven thousand additional homes outside of the 450 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,800 existing neighborhoods so unless you're going to mow those down i don't know how we're fitting 451 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:16,080 seven thousand homes and in this little area but no there are restrictions because we're on septics 452 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:26,000 and wells so uh may i answer that one sir so what we've done is in business as usual we actually 453 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:33,600 didn't take into account the houses that are existing in that area south of heartley we assumed 454 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:41,680 five acres only five acres one lot per five acres kind of uh as you can see that's the existing 455 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:50,960 homes plus one lot for five acres it that is all we did in the balancing act we actually counted 456 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:57,280 the homes that were already there looked at the undeveloped property for example there is 457 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:03,760 reed property that is completely vacant undeveloped on the other side of cooper 458 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:12,960 but there is uh empty property so what we did was we took into account we counted those lots that 459 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:19,280 are existing the homes that are existing then we counted the acreage that was blank and then we put 460 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:26,960 the density we're talking about on that acreage so that's together that's what we got but you're 461 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:33,280 putting a ton of houses on a small the reeds area is not that big okay so i'm assuming they're they're 462 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:38,480 mapped it's a standard equation you can by all means so if you can write down or jot down a 463 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:43,360 follow-up with the size of the acreage and the and the algorithm or the formula and then you 464 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:52,400 can you can punch that number those numbers okay so uh councilman watts yeah and i think for 465 00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:59,360 clarification on the acreage for a septic or a water well i think that's a county and a state 466 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:04,480 reg the city doesn't regulate that so i just have a question of clarification these are the 467 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:12,000 two plans right the business as usual options and so i want to make sure that i'm looking at this 468 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:23,440 right the only difference that i see in these two are primarily right here everything else looks 469 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:30,560 about the same when if you if you were to make these colors orange so this right here is the same 470 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:42,560 this area this area is the same this area is not so but this area is the same am i so we're really 471 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:50,000 talking about as far as the plan either as usual or with a balancing taking in development into 472 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:58,160 consideration we're talking about this area here and then these areas up here is that am i reading 473 00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:05,600 that right yes sir okay do you know how many acres these comprise yes we actually have it somewhere 474 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:11,520 we do i don't have it off the top but i have it on my spreadsheet i can okay and as a follow-up 475 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:20,560 are all of these areas in the city or some of them in the county so north of hartley field is 476 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:28,560 in the city are you talking about where it says 12 110 or one yes 12 110 and 1162 okay so this is 477 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:37,360 in the city the 13 328 and 27 750 is in the county and as i talked about before the reason those 478 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:44,000 numbers are higher is because the city has no influence on the density that goes there so we 479 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:49,520 assumed that people would build according to what the market demand is very important point 480 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:54,240 because on the city council and funding zoning doesn't have to deal with it on city council 481 00:59:54,240 --> 01:00:01,040 we are approached all the time with muds and with mnds that are in the county and i think it's pretty 482 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:09,120 clear to say we have very little if zero folks zero regulation ability over those areas so it 483 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:14,080 doesn't matter what we do here it doesn't matter what we do here on this plan because it's gonna 484 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,720 that's not going to affect this right here because we have no say this area right here 485 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:26,480 because this is in the county so this is in the city what about the 14 185 i'm assuming that's 486 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:32,000 in the county because the number is so high no that one is in this this is right around it hot 487 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:39,520 well what number is it yes okay so this is in the county which is this line here okay and what about 488 01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:47,200 up here how many acreage here in the city the seven three one one twelve three seven seven 489 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:56,560 and sixteen thousand that's in the city limits so these three along the highway yes along 428 yes all 490 01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:07,520 right so i'm just going to say this isn't ready for city council vote we we spent a year on six 491 01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:13,200 thousand acres off i-35 talking about physical impact talking about things such as that there 492 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:20,240 is no way i'm not voting on either one of these because there's no way there's enough information 493 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:28,640 to understand what's going on here i mean it's just it's crazy so i think we need to we need to 494 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:33,680 this is the first time the city council has seen this and i know a couple council members have been 495 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:39,840 involved in this process which is disappointing because i would think that given that the the 496 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,920 importance of this item to the community both the people in the city and the people in the county 497 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:55,600 we are asked as policymakers in a two-hour meeting to decide this that's that's nothing 498 01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:07,040 because because if i had to vote if i had to vote today i would vote on the balancing act 499 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:14,000 because that's what i can control and in fact if these people really i mean i don't i'm telling 500 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:21,520 you all you got to do is look out 380 heading west we've got seven thousand homes going out there 501 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:26,320 in the etj we cannot control at all and you know where they're going to come start looking next 502 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:32,880 so we've got to figure out a way to do this right and this isn't it and paul maybe you know having 503 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:37,920 some time to petition to see hey if there's some property owners in here and folks i would say i'm 504 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:43,840 number one on private property rights and to say that this body is going to make a decision in two 505 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:52,320 hours on something that's affecting now we're only saying we got 3400 acres or 3900 acres in the city 506 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:57,600 i bet you when you consider this acreage it's probably not a whole lot of that that's the 507 01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:03,440 differences in the plan i'm talking about we're all getting all been out of shape and trying to 508 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:09,520 figure all this out for these small areas when everything else is the same and unfortunately 509 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,560 the people who are in the county that have the most at stake that want this to see us this go 510 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:23,440 through even if we voted for the businesses you guess what somebody could come in and plop down 511 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,160 a mud two or three muds with about seven thousand homes or eight thousand homes right in this area 512 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:34,960 this is for you all it's a county issue and a state legislative issue because not only did 513 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:42,400 the mayor did the governor sign in a billion dollars for wildlife the governor also signed 514 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:50,480 that people in the etj a lot of y'all out there can vote to opt out of the city etj 515 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,840 so this isn't ready folks and i think if we move forward on this this is irresponsible 516 01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:03,760 because we do not have enough information because if we have to vote well if i have to vote 517 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,120 i'm going with the balancing act because isn't that what we try to do is balance interest 518 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:14,960 because we can do nothing about the 13 328 uh and all these the the other ones so 519 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:22,960 this this isn't ready uh and so i just that's my input any other questions before i go back to you 520 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:28,640 for a third time give me a second anyone else i have a quick question about the votes uh just 521 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:34,400 one second let him bring you the microphone and your name i'm sorry uh ben ho camp i'm on the 522 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:39,120 steering committee people who are watching a lot of exciting yeah those that are online are not 523 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:46,480 able to hear unless we use the microphone uh i'm ben ho camp i'm on the steering committee on slide 524 01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:58,240 40 i believe uh the roads i have a quick question in the plan um so the only difference uh looking 525 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:04,080 at the southern portion uh is the connector between collins and cooper creek but are we 526 01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:10,240 to understand that heartley field road would be redesigned in the same way regardless of the plan 527 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:17,040 or would that also be affected so currently on the city's uh existing thoroughfare plan 528 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:25,360 what hardly field road shows it's going to stay that way because it is a county road what we are 529 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:32,960 doing here and i've been trying to hit it from the beginning is we are showing it in case the 530 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:41,520 property owners in the county want to annex that's the only reason the areas in the county are colored 531 01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:48,000 or the streets that our county owned are shown or we're showing streets in the county is if they 532 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:54,800 want to annex if it the land comes into the city limit then the city would have an idea and a plan 533 01:05:54,800 --> 01:06:02,160 and they will be prepared to know that this is what they're gonna have to spend today none of this 534 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:07,440 in the county area is getting designed or is getting built or nothing is happening 535 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:34,080 or can happen whether people ask for it or not yes sir so i had two questions um on the sort of i'm 536 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:38,720 trying to understand the the way we we designed the the model and looked at the impacts 537 01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:46,400 the business impacts from the model the so i'm could i get a little more clarity on how the open 538 01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:51,760 space calculations were were done if you if you have a parcel in a residential parcel 539 01:06:51,760 --> 01:07:01,920 is the entire parcel taken off off of the model as is not an open space even though the vertical 540 01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:08,960 structures would be some 20 percent or whatever of a five acre parcel um i mean so that's i'm 541 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:14,320 confused on is how is the open space calculation done and and then maybe i'll take that and then 542 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:22,720 ask my second question so the way we looked at it is not parcel by parcel we we didn't that's not 543 01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:29,840 there's not enough time to do that what we did was took an area and on that area we laid out like 544 01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:41,280 we did the probably okay let me go back here you know how we created a little rough layout so that's 545 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:47,120 what we did is we looked at bigger areas we looked at what the layout would be we looked at the acres 546 01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:54,080 that we would keep open and how many units ended up fitting in there we had we looked at lane miles 547 01:07:54,080 --> 01:08:00,480 that would be needed to build that type of development and it's all assumptions so it is 548 01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:06,240 logical assumptions but they're all based on assumptions but but just to follow up the 549 01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:15,120 assumption on a residential region is is that that no longer counts as open space yes sir so if we 550 01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:22,560 were going to do five acre lots we took the whole area laid it out in five acre lots and looked at 551 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:27,600 the street that would be needed to get to how many lots that would be the street calculation 552 01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:32,880 and rest of it all becomes private property no opens yeah i think that's not a good model 553 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,440 going forward because somebody on a five-acre parcel is not building five acres of vertical 554 01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:42,640 structure so and in fact some of our highest conservation properties are represented in the 555 01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:48,960 room with lots of tree canopy and they have a little house one one when we say open space we're 556 01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:57,040 talking publicly accessible open space so if it is a private lot it is not public open space so 557 01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:04,000 city will have no control over it whereas when we laid it out we're counting publicly accessible 558 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:09,120 open space so that's that's that's fair i think that's a probably a different consideration than 559 01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:16,400 the environmental impact but anyway on on the the business model side when we did the fiscal impact 560 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:22,160 and tried to assess the difference in the in the various models did we take into account the types 561 01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:29,040 of business practices that would go on so like if we've got the new rodeo and and new facilities 562 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:34,720 supporting the new rodeo and equestrian and agricultural areas that are related to sort 563 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:42,080 of a more rural type business agribusiness model environment versus the the kind of mn 564 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:48,480 small model retail i mean how how fine grain was the business model did you take a differential 565 01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:54,880 impact when you looked at the the the change in one versus the other go ahead and stay there 566 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,920 again well they can't hear you online it's a problem we can hear you in the room but 567 01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:07,040 yeah thank you very much my apologies for those online to answer your question yes sir there are 568 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:13,760 differentiations made for the various types of business types to include agricultural there's 569 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:25,440 a great deal of breakout as far as if it is going to be some type of retail and within the model 570 01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:30,000 there was a way to kind of designate if it was going to be a mixed use and to put in there 571 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:38,560 the combination of retail and multifamily and some offices if need be so to answer your question yes 572 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:43,280 there are differentiations made in the in the background of the model it was a pull down 573 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:50,000 device we would say this portion is going to be retail this portion is going to be such and such 574 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,720 there's even if you look down at the bottom that's along uh us 380 we even included those portions 575 01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:01,760 that were going to be industrial and designated them for kind of the industrial that's there 576 01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:10,320 that's more warehouse okay real brief follow-up but again that was that was just the model for 577 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:17,360 the 4,000 out of the 8,500 acres it wasn't the the regional impact of these different business 578 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:22,000 models for someone going out to a restaurant from downtown or from the region or someone going to 579 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:29,760 an equestrian park from another nearby region it was just the 8,500 acres right correct it was a 580 01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:37,280 fiscal impact which is the model saying if we put this type of business here this is going to be 581 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:47,440 the impact to the municipality what they expect to get into various revenues and how much more cost 582 01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:51,920 is going to add i believe and correct me if i'm wrong what you're actually talking about is an 583 01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,720 economic impact so if we put this business here what are going to be the secondary and 584 01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:03,200 tertiary effects in order to build more businesses and additional revenues and if we put a plant out 585 01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:09,280 here if you go down the load well the cleaners get additional money and i should speak out of 586 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:16,720 cleaners because that's my dad's job my dad's business real quick yes that's that's i'm asking 587 01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,520 that sort of economic model and the larger impact on the entire community for this particular study 588 01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:37,200 sir we did not do the economic impact model okay thank you mr mayor um first off uh madam city 589 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,680 manager i want to thank you for doing the work to bring all the stakeholders and various groups 590 01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:48,400 together i just want to say publicly just as this body has now begun more regular meetings with our 591 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:53,280 partners like disd i would encourage us this is the time where we should be reaching out to our 592 01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:58,160 county partners and try to have a joint meeting setup between us and our county commission our 593 01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:03,040 county judge given that they meet on the same day it might be an opportunity for us to have some 594 01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:08,720 collaboration because i'm going to agree with councilmember watts i really don't want to have 595 01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:13,840 to make this decision today only because i would really like to know what the county's thoughts are 596 01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:19,360 while we don't it is true we don't have any say of course in etj1 it would be helpful for us just 597 01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:24,080 to know the general direction that they are thinking things might want to go so just uh just 598 01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:29,120 a plug for more collaboration between a different body so much as time will allow and they would be 599 01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:35,360 permitting to do it with us thank you sir uh just a quick clarification for everybody around the 600 01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:41,440 table today we're not asking you to vote on anything at all we're just asking for direction 601 01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:49,440 on which which scenario would you do you seem to like that we should go develop some recommendations 602 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:56,160 and uh implementation and go look into in more detail than y'all asked for councilmember you 603 01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:03,360 mentioned you need a lot more detail we just need to know which scenario would you like us to look 604 01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:09,920 more into detail about and i'll and i'll piggyback on that um scott mcdonald director of development 605 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:20,480 services hdr has put in roughly 500 hours into this project already um staff has put equally as 606 01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:29,200 much time in a variety of ways and if we're going to go further or longer we're going to need 607 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:36,160 additional funds to carry this forward most importantly we're looking for a path we're not 608 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:42,800 looking for a vote today we're looking for a path from our policymakers if they have a preference on 609 01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:49,600 a path to go how would you establish that path and as we go through this process we can address 610 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:56,080 what needs to occur or if we need to modify either of these paths so i.e. we're looking 611 01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:04,880 for additional information so council can send us on path a or path b we'd like to go down 612 01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:09,760 whichever path and we'd like some additional information brought back to us in the next 613 01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:16,480 couple of weeks via work session or through an isr or some other function to provide that 614 01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:21,680 information as far as including the county we have a county representative my counterpart 615 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:28,960 stephen belmap is is in regular communication with with his his folks at the county not to 616 01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:33,040 say that we couldn't put together another joint meeting or something similar if they're even 617 01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:40,080 amenable i don't know but truly all we're looking for from city council today is do we have a path 618 01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:46,880 to continue down and if not then ultimately i'm looking for whether we're going to continue this 619 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:53,600 process i'm going to have to have some funding to be able to do that thank you mayor well just make 620 01:15:53,600 --> 01:16:01,840 it easy councilman burke and then i i'll take it thank you for the opportunity and i also want to 621 01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:08,000 thank all the players involved in this it's just such a it's a wonderful thing to see that we are 622 01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:14,000 grasping our growth i'll pretty much consider the city of bitton like a teenager trying to figure it 623 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:20,640 out and so we've come to a crossroads now this is a very big project uh but keeping that in mind 624 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:28,400 i it i i would like to see us take the uh the balancing act uh and work with that 625 01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:34,720 uh i know that there's a lot of opposition to that but i also want to comment to say that we are 626 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:42,560 talking about the future we're talking about 10 15 20 30 years from now and there's a good chance 627 01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:48,160 i probably won't be around about 30 years from now but i know that we will have to leave a legacy 628 01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:53,440 for the people that are coming up behind us we did recognize that a number of these people there was 629 01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:59,200 a chart that showed us the age gap of the folks that we are going to have to make this work for 630 01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:05,360 and i need to think we need to keep that in mind we like what we like i don't want anybody living 631 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:11,600 behind me i don't want richards on the either side of me i don't want my neighbors to move away i want 632 01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:17,600 to keep everything just the same but i know that that is not going to be my future because that's 633 01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:22,160 what happened to me my neighborhood doesn't look like the way that they used to and i had to grasp 634 01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:28,800 that so i want us to be mindful of that that we're not talking about ourselves we're talking about 635 01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:35,840 the future of us probably a generation and another generation behind that so um i for one if i were 636 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,680 to say that we were to go which is what you all are asking for right now i would definitely point 637 01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:51,600 us towards the balancing act thank you okay thank you uh so i have uh my questions are these uh and 638 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:57,360 staff provided these in the answers so i'll just kind of glance over them for for speed sake so uh 639 01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:05,360 line so that those tracking along and forgive me uh 21 ish i might be off my eyes uh so average how 640 01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:11,120 home cost staff analysis staff analysis based on association realtors four hundred sixty thousand 641 01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:17,360 dollars average amount uh deposit that you need is is twenty thousand dollars that makes a down 642 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:24,720 payment if my math is wrong forgive me ninety two thousand dollars uh and so my my just a a comment 643 01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:31,760 is this my concern is and i've heard the the neighborhood and and uh in the in those that are 644 01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:38,640 interested and i take note of it but i do want to note that the consequences of those discussions 645 01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:45,280 if if we don't want multi-family in this area then you end up with an area of 646 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:52,080 people that have one hundred thousand dollars to put down on a deposit and they can afford a half 647 01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:58,320 million dollar home uh and and so that's just what we're talking about how many hundreds of acres 648 01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:03,600 of people that only have one hundred thousand dollars and only can afford half million dollar 649 01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:09,920 homes at least uh because that's the it gets later and staff talks about the cost of land 650 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:14,800 and for um they estimate ninety thousand to one hundred twenty thousand dollars per acre 651 01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:20,560 so if you're going to buy five acres that's a little over half million dollars so half million 652 01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:25,040 dollars in the land half million dollar home let's say you pay to build it it's less than that it's 653 01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:32,320 not full uh market rate but a million dollars um is what we're talking about we want in the 654 01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:38,160 north part of town million dollar homeowners only uh and so that's that's just the results of the 655 01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:43,920 request and so as i that will i process through that information there's there's nothing to that 656 01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:49,200 that's the the numbers are the numbers um but i when it comes to questions staff do you have 657 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:55,280 the slides can since someone pulls up from the pictures i i sent in 658 01:19:55,280 --> 01:20:08,560 okay i i purposely picked these out for those that don't know this is westlake area that's 659 01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:14,960 fidelity investment it's a corporate office um one is google maps one i took myself 660 01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:22,480 but that's a parking garage absolutely surrounded by trees 661 01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:29,040 that's a corporate headquarters one of the largest finance institutions 662 01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:38,880 in in the world absolutely surrounded by trees and water so i absolutely believe that these can 663 01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:44,240 things can be done well and they can be planned appropriately and they can be sensitive to their 664 01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:50,560 environment you i mean you tell me the engineering to drop that that parking space in between those 665 01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:58,560 trees seamlessly not one disturbed it is absolutely impressive and i and i that's what inspires me 666 01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:04,880 that we can do things well in this area and preserve all those uh requirements and another 667 01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:10,400 thing that i noted and i asked staff to look at and i forget what number it's number 41 on your 668 01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:16,320 spreadsheet is they i asked them about the gay lord texan and just rough math dallas there you go 669 01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:23,680 thank you very much dallas business journal notes that gay lord texan makes 10.24 million dollars a 670 01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:31,440 year for uh the city of grapevine their their um conventions generate a little more than 21 million 671 01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:39,440 dollars per year dropped in right on the lake environmentally sensitive area uh and you can't 672 01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:45,600 see it from the state highway again another example of how things can be done well and we 673 01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:51,520 can balance uh the approach of development you won't find another convention center hotel that's 674 01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:56,800 busier and you absolutely don't know what's there if you're driving by uh and you don't even know 675 01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:03,280 what if you're driving halfway down the um driveway and it's next to one of our critical lakes in the 676 01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:08,480 area so obviously they had to be diligent about their their planning that sort of thing so thank 677 01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:14,640 you very much for those so i i believe it can be done well and the just real quick to touch on um 678 01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:20,320 a couple of things i want to i want to note as i go into the 2040 plan because i we received a 679 01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:24,160 lot of communication about that so i want to make sure i understand that well uh and that'll inform 680 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:29,360 my decision i want to make sure we're from the same basis everyone's seen south ridge area here 681 01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:39,760 in denton are familiar understand those houses in that area is zoned r2 or r3 so great larger lots 682 01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:45,440 than most of the city it's not five acres it's not one acre some of them are but by and large it's 683 01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:53,600 zoned r2 r3 and it is one of the most scenic areas in the city of denton and built out so um 684 01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:58,720 and there's million dollar homes in there as well but it's it's also uh there's homes in the in the 685 01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:03,920 half million dollar range but just say for aesthetic again just another example of how we can do this 686 01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:16,240 right so if i don't know scott maybe it's you that answers um questions about the 2040 plan who answers 687 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:25,200 those is that you a number of us can absolutely okay so so here's here's what so low res as i 688 01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:30,080 looked on the on the 2040 plan because people said follow the plan i look under the low res 689 01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:34,800 definition that's two dash 19 i don't know what i forget what page it's on but at the very bottom 690 01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:42,000 it says density up to five dwelling units per acre is that that's in the plan i can pull up the page 691 01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:52,160 if is it so yeah low res is that exactly up to five dwelling units per acre that's an accurate 692 01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:58,800 statement yes and that's in the 2040 plan that's correct so i got an email that said follow the 693 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:06,080 2040 plan and i recommended five houses per acre i'm in line with the plan under that future land 694 01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:14,800 use designation yes okay thank you very much and then uh also the who can speak to the state 695 01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:20,880 highways i asked that question as well but i want the entire room to kind of that's number 29 696 01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:27,760 can you speak to the the planned state highways we have our transportation expert here 697 01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:42,800 if you could go over the plan like the planned expansions in this general area so that would be 698 01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:51,040 428 the loop etc so as of right now there was a public meeting i believe last week for state 699 01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:58,960 loop 288 and a connection from 288 to three and as well as 380 so right now they're looking at 700 01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:03,840 doing it what's called a limited access facility along 288 and making a high speed connection to 701 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:10,000 380 that basically bisects that industrial section as shown here on the map as far as the 702 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:15,120 outer loop that you know that's a joint partnership between the county and tex dot looking at doing a 703 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:21,840 limited access facility that basically connects the outer ring and that's part of a larger regional 704 01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:28,800 project as far as called the outer loop and then as far as 428 as of today as far as utp in the step 705 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:35,680 improvement plans there are no improvements today on that corridor that's currently funded or 706 01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,680 identified as funding but i think through this mobility plan we recognize that it likely needs 707 01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:48,880 to be a primary arterial with six lanes okay so six lanes just on the that would be the 708 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:58,320 western border of this plan okay got it and then back to the 2040 plan 709 01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:11,280 number seven of the 10 principles of the building of healthy places as follows again 2040 plan and 710 01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:17,040 i quote mix it up is the title and it says a variety of land uses building types public spaces 711 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:23,120 can improve both physically active and social interaction with with the necessitates updating 712 01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:27,280 and regulation of the standards and that's what we're having that's what we're talking about today 713 01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:32,560 updating the standards and regulations so that we can and that's in line with the 2040 plan 714 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:40,640 am i right yes sir okay great and then i don't know i have the quote here but i don't have it 715 01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:47,760 earmarked so i'll just say also in the 2040 plan it talks about spreading out and someone can correct 716 01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:55,200 me it if i'm wrong it talks about spreading out the open spaces throughout the city and advises 717 01:26:55,200 --> 01:27:04,560 against what's the word grouping too many open spaces in one area but talks about dividing it 718 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:09,920 across the city am i right that's right you want to balance you know the lane uses in one of those 719 01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:16,000 land uses open space okay right thank you very much uh so that's what's i mean i'll continue 720 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:23,760 to listen i'm happy to have more information i'm happy to give uh direction uh once we're done as 721 01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:29,760 far as where i fall uh but i i just wanted to touch on those things that i i received the emails i did 722 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:35,680 not have time to reply to all of them but they it did direct me to the 2040 plan and i researched 723 01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:42,400 the 2040 plan to make sure uh my suggestions are in line with the request and it just happens to 724 01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:48,960 work out that way and based on examples i gave i i don't think it's a zero-sum game i think we can 725 01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:55,920 treat this area with the sensitivity it deserves and deliver an outstanding product uh for our 726 01:27:55,920 --> 01:28:04,080 community that then uh helps our our our uh residents and it helps us have a diverse housing 727 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:10,000 stock so that people that don't can't afford one million dollars can live in north denton i i don't 728 01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:18,000 want to do that to the exclusion of 90 of the city of denton all right yeah thank you mayor um i know 729 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:24,720 we don't have a vote in direction but i'll just kind of say i guess a few opinions that i have for 730 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:33,440 you policymakers who are going to um send this a direction um not taking development into consideration 731 01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:42,560 is exactly the reason you need an area plan in my opinion um so by trying to do business as usual 732 01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:51,200 this seems like a catastrophic waste of time um so i would urge you to there's a lot of holes here 733 01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:56,720 as as councilman watts pointed out there's so much we don't know there's so much to i'm not even sure 734 01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:03,120 we can do the area plan as i think a lot of us envision because of the fact that a majority of 735 01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:10,080 this land is not city-owned land and we have very little to say about its development but 736 01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:17,520 what i would say again is if we're going to go forward with trying to make an area plan i think 737 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:28,160 you have to take development pressure into account and and directionally in my opinion would be we've 738 01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:33,840 got to fill in a lot of these questions that we don't have on on the maps that you provided is 739 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:42,160 what is city land where exactly is that what is county line just better better staged on a map 740 01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:48,720 than it looks right now um at any rate my two cents would be is you do have to consider development 741 01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:54,160 pressures that's the whole reason that we want an area plan because it's here it's on the back door 742 01:29:54,160 --> 01:30:01,600 it's coming it's knocking if we don't set a plan in place we're going to get what we just are 743 01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:10,960 constantly fighting so um commissioners commissioner smith did have um his hand up earlier so i'm going 744 01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:23,360 to pass the mic that way yeah i want to echo uh commissioner alice and council member watts's 745 01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:28,800 points on the fact that the county pressure that we do have here is one of the key reasons why even 746 01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:35,360 from the workday that we had uh that the discussion was along the lines of that's great gets great 747 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:41,360 plans uh and some some really good input from the community but there's only so much we can do with 748 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:47,280 that county land there the only point i would have uh with giving no voter direction whatsoever 749 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:53,600 to council uh but the only thing i would ask for is as presentations come back and the future path 750 01:30:54,160 --> 01:31:02,560 is to specifically identify the zoning levels that would be within rural residential or in the uh 751 01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:07,360 the the residential transitional areas within there even in just in the balancing act for to 752 01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:15,360 versus the business as usual you have a wide disparity between one acre per one unit per five 753 01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:21,520 acres all the way down to in the balancing act it was one unit per two acres or three units per 754 01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:28,080 acre and there was some wide varying between those so having some more homogeneity some standards 755 01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:32,880 relating it back to what we would see in our in our zoning laws as this continues and gets 756 01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:39,040 to get more refined and i don't think that that was omitted uh or or forgotten about i think just 757 01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:44,400 that this is a 30 000 full level view and as we continue and move from 30 000 down to 15 start 758 01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:49,600 getting more specific start incorporating the ddc that we see on planning and zoning the city council 759 01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:55,120 sees more into the plan as this comes in uh and then i want to echo commissioner alice's point that 760 01:31:55,120 --> 01:32:00,960 i would love to be able to see a very clear map that has city county differentiated between there 761 01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:08,720 so so if you look on the screens here that that dotted line is showing you where the city and the 762 01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:16,880 county is with the layout but i can make it darker and send it to you also for sure on top of this 763 01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:28,080 map without the roadways we just to say in a plan that the level of zoning information you're asking 764 01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:37,840 what we usually do is recommend that this area can have a certain type of density very generally 765 01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:44,560 it's it's not gonna what you're asking for is a complete different project and i would love to do 766 01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:55,680 it if but it's not at this time yes sir current zoning is what the request is for is what areas 767 01:32:55,680 --> 01:33:02,320 have current zoning today so we can address yes we can we can definitely we've considered it 768 01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:09,280 thank you mayor uh i'm gonna try to learn from chair alice as well although that i've been trying 769 01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:16,160 to for two years and not a bunch has soaked in and just offer some general comments not really 770 01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:20,720 direction but things to think about as we move forward with either of these plans as dentin 771 01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:28,160 doubles in population over the next 20 years or however long it's going to be you know we will 772 01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:35,920 become fiscally solvent if most of that development activity occurs near our core where we already have 773 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:44,080 existing infrastructure services etc so you know in general for that reason i kind of like that 774 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:49,040 model and i think the the comp plan supports that however we will expand and when that happens 775 01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:53,840 we also must make sure that everything is fiscally solvent as we develop it 776 01:33:53,840 --> 01:34:01,600 but that solvency can be achieved either by increasing the development intensity to meet 777 01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:06,240 the infrastructure we plan to put in or by looking at other types of infrastructure 778 01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:11,360 that can be sustained by that development right it's it's not true that i want everything to be 779 01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:18,720 dense i just want everything to pay for itself um you know i i really kind of like the this rural 780 01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:27,440 village concept um i think it gives a diversity of housing options um that that you know people 781 01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:34,240 of different means can afford to live uh in in an area near the fringe where you have close by 782 01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:39,920 access to these assets that we're talking about that everybody loves um there are some specific 783 01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:45,680 problems i think that could be solved in implementation and that's primarily um you know 784 01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:51,200 collins road right now doesn't cross over i don't know if we have any friendly upr people here or 785 01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:59,840 not um and um you know whatever plan happens for that wherever it is if it's incorporated 786 01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:08,720 would need to be able to be realized in a in a development method that's not your typical 787 01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:14,400 oh one person is amassing 230 acres and they're going to build it all at once because there's 788 01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:19,120 just too much partialization here so there's some detail that needs to be go there as we go 789 01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:25,680 for the further north right uh near the um future outer loop and that sort of thing 790 01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:33,120 does does that type of thing make sense um i i guess it makes more sense from a environmental 791 01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:40,320 and fiscal perspective than 50 acre parking lots and huge nebraska furniture marts um but to be 792 01:35:40,320 --> 01:35:46,240 honest it it also kind of looks like hey textod is going to subsidize us by building this two 793 01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:50,560 billion dollar road and so this is what we're going to put up and we're sort of letting them 794 01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:57,920 determine our land use um so it's it's a rock and a hard place on that one um and then finally the 795 01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:04,400 the one thing that i'm really nervous about is on the south southwestern area of the plan 796 01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:09,600 really just because i haven't seen a proposal to uh explain how we're going to 797 01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:16,400 phase the infrastructure to be consistent with the built environment's ability to to sustain it 798 01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:23,280 long term i'm nervous about adding additional transitional areas uh because typically when 799 01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:28,640 that's done we we don't phase the infrastructure we we put in top class curb and gutter and 800 01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:35,600 everything so uh hope that helps thank you okay anyone else 801 01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:45,440 okay we'll go um travis then uh councilman melzer and mayor pro tem and it is we we do 802 01:36:45,440 --> 01:36:49,360 have a hard stock because we have a regular council meeting starts at two uh so i'm willing 803 01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:52,960 to go a little over one but we have we have to have time to get across yeah i just wanted to 804 01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:56,880 reiterate one thing that we've kind of talked about a lot is that business as usual was never 805 01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:02,160 our plan it was never our term it was never anything that we advocated for we have always 806 01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:07,440 advocated for keeping in the 2040 plan there's always been what the neighborhood with the large 807 01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:11,600 vast majority of the committee has advocated for so i just want to say that that's a bit of a 808 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:17,680 misnomer that that is something that we've ever advocated for on top of that um just so we're 809 01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:21,760 understanding we've talked about um all these emails that came in that were talking about a 810 01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:28,800 2040 plan and then so we talked about having five homes per acre so my understanding that this 811 01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:35,200 committee that the city council is going to recommend and hold to that five houses an acre 812 01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:41,120 because that is not what's being planned north of harley field road right so that i mean if we if 813 01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:46,160 we want to hold ourselves to that 2040 and i know it seems like you are we is that what we're 814 01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:51,040 recommending five homes an acre right that's what the 2040 plan is so are we going to hold 815 01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:56,640 people to that if we're going to say that that is not what it's currently so but but but i have 816 01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:01,680 other things to say real quick um because i've got a lot ned's not here so i have to talk for him 817 01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:09,440 um i think my other question is in the 2040 plan there's a lot of talk about 818 01:38:09,440 --> 01:38:19,360 conservation it's rural conservation is mentioned in here 61 times out of the land that is not 819 01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:27,600 watershed area that we would be very difficult to build on financially difficult how much of that 820 01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:35,280 land are you guys advocating for conserving more not not not not not i'm going to put a parking lot 821 01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:42,400 and trees around it right can anybody name some any of the endangered species that visited this 822 01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:51,440 area can you name one just one so when is there a plan to conserve land for that there are bald 823 01:38:51,440 --> 01:38:59,520 eagles that come here there are freshwater otters and i understand um this is just so just your 824 01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:04,240 question right so i want to i want to use this time to get you the answers but i gotta have your 825 01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,400 question all right so my question is are we willing one question are we willing to hold people to 826 01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:13,120 five houses an acre as you said within the 2040 plan that that's the discussion we're going to 827 01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:20,400 have today yes okay so that's one question second question how much land developable land are we 828 01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:26,960 committing to conserving so at this point this is just a concept once you tell us which direction 829 01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:34,000 you want to go then we're going to work on those details for either either scenario you will we 830 01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:39,280 have to do that calculation it's going to be different depending on what development types 831 01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:44,480 you're putting on that property what land you're going to preserve or how much land you're going 832 01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:50,480 to preserve those calculations to do that we need to know which direction you want us to go in so 833 01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:58,320 that's why we're here asking would you say that business is beautiful as business as usual with 834 01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:05,280 modifications or balancing act with modifications or whatever which one of those in your mind would 835 01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:10,800 conserve more land she she she they don't have they'll have to do the calculations that was our 836 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:16,560 answer the first time so and then we'll go to council member melzer thank you 837 01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:29,360 okay um a couple of uh in the in the way of giving direction a couple points of clarification i was 838 01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:34,240 actually in the group during the i think it was called the visioning session that sat about this 839 01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:42,000 part of the room that introduced the idea of village but it was understood to be a way to 840 01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:49,440 create more preserved open space and more five acre zoning the intention wasn't you know yeah 841 01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:54,880 have traditional tract housing and village and consider that you know more preservation that 842 01:40:54,880 --> 01:41:01,440 that's not the case so you know i perceive balancing act to be saying do the most vertical 843 01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:10,000 construction of the varying types which was not the intention so you know i would be i'd be very 844 01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:21,200 interested in a view that had that rural center as a trade-off for the maximum percentage of 845 01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:25,280 conservation we haven't heard what the acreage is that having been said 846 01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:37,360 i perceive a bit of creeping conviction we put 500 hours into this we've involved so many people 847 01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:45,200 we're so far down the path but that can't keep you from going to a better answer if it's presented 848 01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:53,040 so i'm interested in developing also with slides so it will seem as real to you as these two 849 01:41:54,080 --> 01:42:01,360 what heartley field state park will look like maybe maybe it can happen maybe someday you'll 850 01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:05,840 say you know gee there are only a few of us who expressed anything about it but now we're taking 851 01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:12,160 our families to enjoy it now in 20 and 30 years that's our heritage that we in that we have 852 01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:24,640 heartley field state park so let's shape that up thank you and then uh mayor pro tem just one more 853 01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:33,920 point on that if that comes to pass that becomes state administered state land it doesn't decrease 854 01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:40,320 the ability of the city to spread open space on city-owned property it increases it 855 01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:47,280 because it doesn't require our funding to do it okay but bear with me i just need to track along 856 01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:51,920 and then mayor pro tem with your indulgence she she wants to speak so right next to her and then 857 01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:56,880 we'll run it up to you what land are you talking about who owns the land that you're talking about 858 01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:02,800 that you would you've identified for a state park who owns it i don't think it's entirely up to me 859 01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:06,960 to do all the work of the planning right no no doubt but you've spoken about uh you you have 860 01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:15,200 this idea i just want to know what what so some of it's etj that's why that's why the virtue of 861 01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:22,240 going to state you know becomes relevant because you know we look at a land at a map where you know 862 01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:26,960 a lot of what we would like to be uh open space is not under city control so that's the whole point 863 01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:33,120 of going to state but it's it's basically the maximum amount of the undeveloped land you know 864 01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:40,080 a year ago i learned but i'm just i don't want to i don't want to lengthen the comment i'm just 865 01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:46,160 asking it because they had the landowners up there and so i'm just asking you who owns the property 866 01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:50,160 that you're referring to so that i can i just want to note that so i can track along with you 867 01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:55,600 okay orion thank you all right okay that's fine but i will point out that 868 01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:05,040 a year ago i learned that the amount of land that's come under development plans in the prior 869 01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:12,320 six years is greater than the amount of undeveloped land that's left so this is a disappearing 870 01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:18,800 heritage so if we don't act to preserve land like this we're going to be out of options very soon 871 01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:26,160 okay right it was uh yeah and then we'll come back to mayor portin hello i'm susan smith on the 872 01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:32,800 steering committee as a city resident and i just have one comment to make to reiterate what chris 873 01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:39,120 said and i think what paul's saying is that i don't really feel like we're ready to decide on 874 01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:45,280 either one of these options today because i don't really agree with either one of them i think the 875 01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:53,440 business as usual is a misnomer we never indicated that we want no development in our neighborhood 876 01:44:53,440 --> 01:44:59,120 group we absolutely expect some development but just the right kind of development that 877 01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:05,440 follows the 2040 plan and the vision statement however we may interpret that and i think that's 878 01:45:05,440 --> 01:45:11,840 what people are trying to come up with good solutions for and keep everybody happy we know 879 01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:19,600 there will be development the balancing act as it stands to me looks a little heavy in areas like 880 01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:27,520 heartley field road i i would like to keep that as a county road i also think it seems a little 881 01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:36,560 heavy up by the elm bottom circle area in in some of the um density that's there so i really think 882 01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:46,560 that we need modifications on either side whatever we decide but i'm very pro keeping to the 2040 883 01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:51,920 plan and the vision statement that we developed i think everybody put a lot of work into that and 884 01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:57,280 i agree with it so however we come up with that i just really don't think we're there yet thank 885 01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:03,600 you and while you're walking around scott i do have i need an understanding county county road who 886 01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:12,400 decides when that's developed um it's it's a county road so i right so does the city have a if the 887 01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:21,600 developer is developing and it's going to require something addition to that then yes but is that a 888 01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:26,800 county in a developer conversation or is a city invited to that conversation it may be a county 889 01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:32,560 and city it may be a county and the developer it may be the city and the developer if again if the 890 01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:38,000 if the property is in the county it's it's a county developer got it okay thank you mayor partem 891 01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:47,680 thank you all um yeah i think it the naming of our options has set a tone that i think is very very 892 01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:57,280 unfortunate um i think oh over two years ago the neighborhood came to the region with development 893 01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:05,120 concepts that were developmental um they they were not um leave it in place uh change nothing 894 01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:12,080 they were this is this is what the neighborhood has sort of collaboratively worked on and the 895 01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:16,720 task that we gave them was community developed community based the words community were 896 01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:25,120 first and foremost first and foremost in um in the mission and goals that we gave them 897 01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:36,880 and the by and large uh the leaders of the of the steering committee um have you know communicated 898 01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:41,680 with us both through the steering committee as an individuals the neighborhood has communicated 899 01:47:41,680 --> 01:47:48,000 that there is a room and desire and and understanding of the growth potential of this region 900 01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:55,520 and so i think again it's it's unfortunate that we chose business as usual versus 901 01:47:55,520 --> 01:48:02,640 balancing act um you know those those names are you're not going to be able to convince me 902 01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:08,000 that that doesn't buy us the conversation that we had today so i find those those names uh 903 01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:14,160 unfortunate um a couple of things that you you heard from from members of the the stakeholder 904 01:48:14,160 --> 01:48:25,280 community is is a way to increase usage of and main but while preserving which is in our 2040 905 01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:32,240 plan the newest edition the the preferred land map preservation uh and so you know that there is 906 01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:37,600 development with preservation that that that that is what the community came to the area is and 907 01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:45,440 and i agree with those who have said that what we have here is sort of an incomplete product of 908 01:48:45,440 --> 01:48:54,400 two disparate uh strategies where there it's not balancing act versus business as usual it is it is 909 01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,920 two viewpoints that don't even represent the viewpoints of the the primary proponents 910 01:48:59,920 --> 01:49:06,080 of those viewpoints so we have not gotten to a place of consensus um and we don't we have 911 01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:14,160 not even gotten to a place of consensus with our regional partners as well there is um the the the 912 01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:19,200 where i'm going with this is the the mobility plans are are coming through and they will 913 01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:25,920 absolutely change and so that's going to have to be incorporated and yet they really weren't nothing 914 01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:31,040 we were really presented with today addressed the those mobility plan changes and and i'm 915 01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:37,360 particularly not talking about the fact that there will be uh 428 and the outer loop and the 380 916 01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:45,600 expansion across 288 but the fact that all those proposed changes will require right of way changes 917 01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:51,520 that there is currently not space for at least close to the city and definitely out as you get 918 01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:56,960 towards core of engineer lands there's simply not right of way space and if you do you're taking it 919 01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:02,080 out of these landowners properties for what finally the final point i want to bring in 920 01:50:02,080 --> 01:50:08,080 is in our comp plan we try really hard to get away from what we did decades ago just strip zoning and 921 01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:14,800 leapfrog zoning and the balancing act is a leapfrog zoning approach where we're leaping over an area 922 01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:23,520 now is it the fault that there's a donut hole in in an etj donut hole yes it is the fault that we 923 01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:29,520 have sort of a pseudo leapfrog happening there where we've left a big use gap and then we're 924 01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:36,320 trying to leap into other uh usages that don't really transitionally align but then also i will 925 01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:44,640 point out as my final comment and and the reason i'm giving direction of uh business as usual 926 01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:53,920 with modifications is is that that donut hole itself if it was so easy to drop a mud in there 927 01:50:53,920 --> 01:51:01,360 or an mmd or develop that as a 50 story high rise or a cement batch plant it would be there and 928 01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:06,560 there is one cement batch plant and otherwise there's homes if it was that easy if the economic 929 01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:12,720 pressures were there to make that happen it would have happened already all right so uh i my direction 930 01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:18,240 is is uh is not for the balancing act but for the other now this is for staff though i would ask you 931 01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:22,640 to what what how would you summarize that though if you have to put it in one line in one word 932 01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:27,360 or a summary or phrase you don't like balancing act or business as usual what do you like 933 01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:35,040 you you you mean for my direction or the name of yeah i'm just saying if staff's going to 934 01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:39,520 come back with something and you don't you take issue with what they write your right to do so 935 01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:43,760 but i think if you ever you're going to have a challenge or something you should have a solution 936 01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:48,160 that that's very fair and so but it's it's easy to come up with a solution where you say something 937 01:51:48,160 --> 01:51:53,840 like uh you know lower density in development or something like that where you are expressing a 938 01:51:53,840 --> 01:52:00,160 characteristic of the feature of the development and not assessing um so lower density development 939 01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:07,440 and what else um balancing act which which would be uh i don't know something more like on the realm 940 01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:12,880 of you're forcing me to yeah and i'm saying you know staff have the same challenge right so i want 941 01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:18,560 to be fair to them and and and just i understand you don't like the terminology but i just want 942 01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:22,720 to choose a similar characteristic i'm not going to you know i'm going to say something like you 943 01:52:22,720 --> 01:52:28,640 could say um um high density mixed use or something like that thank you wanted to compare them thank 944 01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:37,200 you uh is there anyone else seeing none i i guess mayor just again i don't know that we have clear 945 01:52:37,200 --> 01:52:44,240 direction so i'm just looking for what it is staff is to do going forward yeah no we we um we don't 946 01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:49,520 and we're gonna we're gonna have to go because we have a two two o'clock and so we have to have time 947 01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:55,840 to transition everyone and so um i i mean i can't i'll open the floor for comments you asked the last 948 01:52:55,840 --> 01:53:03,280 couple no i i have not not yet but uh we'll go we'll go to uh commissioner villarreal and then 949 01:53:03,280 --> 01:53:09,920 we'll we'll wrap up and we'll roll call council members is that yes thank you and i'm okay if we 950 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:17,280 call it a and b right thank you so uh just going back to the conversation that council member watts 951 01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:23,360 brought up earlier i was wondering if we were going to do a more thorough process what differences 952 01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:29,040 would you like to see us do in that in that process what changes would you like to see 953 01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:35,680 what are you looking for in a more thorough thorough plan and and i will say that we can 954 01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:41,920 take that guidance that's given to us uh it can get put into writing and then we can submit it to 955 01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:47,440 the committee mayor okay yeah so what do you want to see is the in the in the plan in the future or 956 01:53:47,440 --> 01:53:51,920 more detailed that's the that's just a general question we'll put it out there i have councilman 957 01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:59,120 bird that expressed an interest in in the balanced approach as staffs name it option a and b right so 958 01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:06,960 let's let's not yeah so a is a is on the left right is on the is b simple thing so um councilman bird 959 01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:15,920 has expressed an interest for item b uh mayor pardon me pardon me thank you uh council and then 960 01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:24,320 mayor pro tem has an option for a preference for uh option a and i need to hear from the others 961 01:54:24,320 --> 01:54:32,560 i'm happy to call you our own councilman melter is is expressed a preference for option a uh 962 01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:42,560 councilman holland option b b b no oh no well well no no no no i understand i just 963 01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:47,440 the what's before says a or b i'll just put you as undecided that's great no no let's keep it 964 01:54:47,440 --> 01:55:00,880 moving uh okay uh and then uh i think my questions can get answered in the process so i'm going to go 965 01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:18,640 with the b okay uh councilman mcgee option b okay mayor hutzpeth is is here's my i'm a b with 966 01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:23,120 modifications i don't want to i don't want to discuss the upper part i think that i take uh 967 01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:28,880 mayor pro tem's point and i take the conversations we've had and that's too far for projection and 968 01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:34,960 we're not going to do anything up there any anytime soon so it's b with the exception of 969 01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:42,560 we're going to zero in on uh the right up to the green space there one and then two it with the 970 01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:52,720 caveat that that it r whatever that is r4 is by plan uh or r6 with different shapes and different 971 01:55:52,720 --> 01:56:01,520 uses if you have commercial uses i think you can get to uh r6 um and it looked like r4 on the ground 972 01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:11,280 and meet the expectations and so suffice to say 2040 plan low density allows for five houses per 973 01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:25,680 acre however that's calculated no no no no that's not is it wrong so remember low densities up to 974 01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:33,120 five dwelling units per acre actually net whatever that total acreage is now low density not rural 975 01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:43,360 low density the den 2040 okay all right yeah the other thing that that were mentioned by some of 976 01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:49,440 the committee members that we want to make sure we're very clear on is a very clean and clear map 977 01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:55,840 to delineate between city land and county land map out the development authority on each so you know 978 01:56:55,840 --> 01:57:02,560 which one's county which one's city and then show current zoning and zoning levels so that you can 979 01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:08,000 show very clearly county land zoning levels city land zoning level what is currently zoned as not 980 01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:12,800 necessarily what it could be and and then the development authority a little note to say here's 981 01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:17,680 development authority under the county here's the development authority under the city and it's 982 01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:24,800 important to note scott correct me if i'm wrong nothing is going to be developed here without 983 01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:33,280 intense conversations and meetings and all those things so nothing happens but for everyone having 984 01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:37,920 an opportunity to be heard correct this was an opportunity for everyone to be heard to get some 985 01:57:37,920 --> 01:57:43,680 general direction from council on which direction for us to go and we'll continue to work through 986 01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:48,880 this and and ultimately i hear in this is is really the option b with some modification so 987 01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:53,040 there are any number of things that we'll be bringing back to council to ask for their 988 01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:58,480 direction and we'll just start drilling down or distilling this more each time we visit right but 989 01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:04,240 there's no plan that's in in queue that's some stage of that's benefited by this conversation 990 01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:11,600 nothing no nothing absolutely not perfect okay uh well right here the zoning maps that everyone's 991 01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:18,320 asking uh they are in a powerpoint for student committee number two meeting it's on the website 992 01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:23,520 and all these detailed plans are in that uh powerpoint can we get it out to the council 993 01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:28,560 members as well we will we will we will make the new new drawings better but before that if 994 01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:33,120 someone wanted to go home and see it i just wanted everyone to know and give that to me again it's 995 01:58:33,120 --> 01:58:44,320 the steering committee meeting two yes may 30th meeting got it and it's in and it's um undiscussed 996 01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:54,720 and got it thank you take a look okay very good uh so at uh well i'll let you conclude and i'll 997 01:58:54,720 --> 01:59:01,360 conclude our uh thank you everyone for time um thanks commissioners for showing up this 998 01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:07,200 afternoon i appreciate it i'll adjourn our joint meeting at 108 and i would conclude the city 999 01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:13,680 council's meeting at 108 as well thank you thank you all thank all of you that came here today 1000 01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:15,160 (laughter)