WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.400 Good afternoon and welcome to the work session for the planning and zoning 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:15.240 Commission. We'll convene the meeting at 4.04 on March 20th 2019. The first order 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:19.640 of business is to receive a report and hold a discussion about the Denton 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:26.680 Development Code update and draft zoning map. Is this Ron today? Scott? I saw 00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:30.960 Scott on his way so he might be here in a few minutes. Sounds good. I'll turn 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:44.000 over to you Ron. Okay, all right. Chair members of the Commission, members of 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:49.840 staff, this is the last of the series of work sessions that we are scheduled to 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:55.640 have on the DDC update. Both the code as well as the zoning map. What we're going 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.840 to be discussing today, well let me let me step back a little bit. What we 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:06.560 discussed at the last work session was subchapter four and five. We briefly 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:10.720 introduced subchapter six which is the development standards. That will be what 00:01:10.720 --> 00:01:16.560 are we what we are going to focus today will be subchapter six, seven and eight. 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:21.960 I've invited members of the technical staff, senior staff members with the 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:28.120 city. They have played an important role in this particular subchapter, subchapter 00:01:28.120 --> 00:01:33.680 six because it deals with all of the different development requirements that 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:44.280 affect the city. Those that are listed here are those sections that pertain to 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:50.600 subchapter six as you can see here from land disturbing activities to ESA's to 00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:58.400 water, wastewater, drainage, landscaping, parking, solid waste. So I know you guys 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:03.160 have a lot of questions and they are here to help answer those questions 00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:09.240 because I won't pretend to know all of it or any of it. So they're here. We also 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:15.160 have present our outside council, Brendan McDonald here. If you have any 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:20.440 legal matters I'm sure Jerry can handle it but Brenda is also available if you 00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:29.240 need her assistance. So with that I'm gonna go through some of the significant 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:36.080 changes unless you have questions. If you do then we can address those. Again we 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:42.320 have the staff that are that helped drafted the section or the subchapters 00:02:42.320 --> 00:02:47.440 and those sections that we just saw. So really open to the Commission. This is a 00:02:47.440 --> 00:02:53.800 work session. It's really to get your input. I want to set the stage of what's 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.680 included in the subchapter but really we're here to help answer your questions, 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:07.400 receive input, and hopefully we can get a draft that we all can buy into. So any 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:24.680 questions with initial questions? Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. I sent staff a load of stuff. So we want to go down? Yes so just for the 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:30.040 Commission's information, Larry was kind enough to send us some questions, 00:03:30.040 --> 00:03:34.000 comments in advance. I believe there were Monday and then another set 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:41.280 yesterday. Those were forwarded to the staff that are present today. In fact 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.680 there was some responses and I just didn't have any time to forward that to 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:50.160 the Commission as a whole. Again we got them on Tuesday but anyways the fact is 00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:55.060 we have some comments that Larry provided. We can go through that if you 00:03:55.060 --> 00:04:01.800 like. That's to the purview of the Commission. Okay. Yeah Commissioner Beck. 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:07.280 Thank you. Alright well let's start on page 307 under 6.3.2 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:24.240 applicability. B5. It says stockpiling and handling of earth material 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.440 associated with commercial query and landfill operations licensed under the 00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:33.600 state. I drew a blank on that. I was hoping maybe we get a clearer meaning of 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:43.960 what this is. Larry repeat one more time the section. Alright it's 6.2 6.3.2 00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:52.800 applicability and it'd be B5 which is on actually yeah it's on 307. It says stock 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:59.400 piling and handling of earth material. It's dealing with exemptions. Okay. It says stock piling and 00:04:59.400 --> 00:05:02.280 handling of earth material associated with commercial query and the landfill 00:05:02.280 --> 00:05:07.920 operations licensed under the state. That just came out of nowhere. It seemed like it 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:15.640 wasn't even relevant to what everything else is. Sure. Can you clarify that? I'd like to invite Ms. Debra 00:05:15.640 --> 00:05:24.360 Villar to the podium to answer that question. Good evening Commissioner. The distinction between land 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.760 disturbing activities covered in sub chapter 18 that now have been moved to 00:05:27.760 --> 00:05:33.320 6.3. Those are activities related during a short period of time during construction 00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:40.640 that you have on beginning and an end. Land mining and query activities those 00:05:40.640 --> 00:05:45.480 are more long-term. Those are permanent activities and those are covered by a 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:50.560 different permit through TCEQ. Land disturbing activities related to 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:58.000 construction. They are under TXR 150,000 versus the mining and query that will be 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:04.600 TXR 50,000 and those also require a multi sector general permit. So even though 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:10.600 there will be moving dirt as you will be in a construction site they are longer 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:16.600 term duration and that's why they are regulated. Okay. So they're exempted then? 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:24.600 They're exempt from the TXR 150,000 but they're subject to the TXR 50,000. So 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:35.680 they're regulated. It's just different permits. Okay. Page 308 6.3.5 general 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:44.000 standards B. The site operator owner shall provide a copy of the sign notice of 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.360 intent from the TCEQ for all sites that are for all sites that are larger than 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:55.240 five acres or are less than five acres and part of a larger common plan of 00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:02.280 development that is larger than five acres. And my question was the same part. Less than 00:07:02.280 --> 00:07:09.040 five acres. Does this refer to plan development? It could. Okay. TCEQ pretty 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:14.040 much define a larger common plan of development for projects that are 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:18.560 completed in separate stages in separate phases and/or combination of other 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:24.080 construction activities. It also said that when we look into a project we can 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:29.120 use the planning, the zoning, blueprints, marketing plans and contracts, building 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:34.800 permits, public notice for hearings as a way to define that a particular 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:40.580 development was meant to be cohesive and planned together. So those are the 00:07:40.580 --> 00:07:45.240 criteria that TCEQ provides to define projects as a part of larger common 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:52.720 development. Okay. And PD could be one of them. Okay. Because PDs are usually larger 00:07:52.720 --> 00:08:01.080 than five acres. Correct. Okay. And that's why I was. All right. Page 309. 00:08:01.080 --> 00:08:19.040 SWPPP required. D3. Yeah. D3C. Okay. Thanks. If a permittee sells one or more 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:24.840 lots in a subdivision to a purchaser, the permittee may choose to not extend 00:08:24.840 --> 00:08:32.720 permit coverage to the purchaser under the permitted, not, what is it, NOI? 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:38.560 NOI. Notice of intent. If this occurs, the permittee remains, the permittee remains 00:08:38.560 --> 00:08:43.200 the responsible party for only those lots for which the permittee retains 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:47.480 day-to-day operational control. The purchaser then becomes responsible of 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:52.640 the party for the lots is liable for violation of this chapter. Does the 00:08:52.640 --> 00:08:58.000 purchaser then have to obtain an NOI? Correct. Okay. What they can do, they can 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.400 share the SWPPP, which is the maintenance and the oversight of the 00:09:01.400 --> 00:09:05.760 site. However, the responsibility, the legal responsibility relies on the 00:09:05.760 --> 00:09:11.880 owners. And therefore, each party must obtain an NOI. When somebody purchases a 00:09:11.880 --> 00:09:16.480 lot, then they will have to do something called notice of change submitted to 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:21.260 TCEQ to say things have changed. This is the new person who is responsible for 00:09:21.260 --> 00:09:26.720 this lot. And then that new person gets an NOI. Who alerts the city, that the 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:34.000 original owner? They're supposed to keep us abreast of all those changes in of 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:38.440 notices. Yes, we get copies of that. And if they don't, then there's a section in 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:44.120 there that deals with violations, right? Correct. When we go to, we do inspections 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:49.840 every three weeks, one of the things that we verified is the SWPPP. And if 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.200 anything has changed, that should have been reflected on that document as well. 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:57.720 Most of the time, they will let us know and then we'd say, well, that, those are 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:02.200 the additional steps that you have to follow. Okay. And it keeps mentioning the 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.620 Environment Sensory Criteria Manual. Has that been completed or are we still 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:11.280 waiting for this? Actually, we have a draft. We are going to the COE in April, 00:10:11.280 --> 00:10:17.360 our first meeting, that will start the process for vetting that Criteria Manual 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:22.220 and gathering public input. After we are done with COE, then we will bring it to 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:25.440 the Planning and Sorting Commission. But yes, we have a draft. Will that be done 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:31.800 before or after we approve the new DDC? I believe the intent is just to get that 00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:36.200 within the six months. We are trying to get it done in close proximity. From the time we 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:40.380 approve the DDC? By the time that we start enforcing the DDC, we should have 00:10:40.380 --> 00:10:55.600 a ESA Criteria Manual. Okay. Page 313. Footnote 818. Consolidated Draft. 00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:00.760 Cross-reference to be provided in the subsequent draft, referencing the Parkland 00:11:00.760 --> 00:11:04.920 dedication ordinance. My question is, will this be the final draft or do we 00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:15.800 anticipate one more preliminary draft before the final draft? Larry, are you referring 00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:25.820 to the Park Dedication Ordinance, that draft? Okay, for the footnote 818, which goes to... 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:32.480 That would be, I'm sorry, I just read that footnote. That would be to... 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:37.360 Parkland dedication, of course. That would be to the next draft. That what we would... 00:11:37.360 --> 00:12:03.260 The final draft? The final draft, yes. Okay. Page 314. 6.4.7(a)(3). Since gas 00:12:03.260 --> 00:12:07.280 well drilling and production within developed floodplains shall comply with 00:12:07.280 --> 00:12:14.440 Section 5.7.3, gas well drilling and production. Under 5.7.15, 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:23.760 watershed permits for gas well departments. D.2B, page 299. It states, so I 00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:28.040 was reflecting back on what this says and then what this other section says, 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:34.520 5.7.15 says, within all areas except unstudied floodplains, if the stream is 00:12:34.520 --> 00:12:40.000 designed as a poor ESA, the designated width of the protective stream buffer 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:46.040 shall be decreased by either 50% or to the limits of the floodway, whichever 00:12:46.040 --> 00:12:51.480 is greater. But in no instance shall the protective stream buffer width be 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:55.440 decreased below 25 feet measured each direction from the centerline of the 00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:00.520 existing channel. And I noted that there is nothing noted here that the gas well 00:13:00.520 --> 00:13:05.880 operator will have to have an ESA assessment done to determine the poor 00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:10.240 status of the stream, of the repairing buffer, before they can proceed. Am I 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:20.560 wrong in that? Is there...? They would have to have... Well, when gas well drilling is 00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:25.200 proposed within any ESAs, they need to get what is called a watershed protection 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:31.440 permit, WPP. Okay. And as a part of that process, we do the field assessment. Okay. 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:36.880 So, and all the conditions reflected on the WPP are based on the outcome of the 00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:41.400 field assessment. What we are trying to do for simplicity is combine the two 00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:46.280 processes in one application under the WPP instead of requiring site operators 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:51.280 to apply for two separate applications. But the ESA field assessment is done. 00:13:51.280 --> 00:14:02.480 Okay. I just felt like there needed to be a wording added to the 5.7.15 D2B. That 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:05.880 would show that. In other words, there's something in there when they read that 00:14:05.880 --> 00:14:09.480 since you're not left like I was wondering is there going to be an ESA 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:14.720 field assessment done. So that's just a recommendation. 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:23.480 We can, and I will let our plan to take the lead on that. Am I asking too much? 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:30.480 Well, just anything within the gas well ordinance, we're not approaching that. So, 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:37.080 understand that we're... Well, I mean, we're not asking to do something. We're managing the 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.840 process. We'll ensure that the gas well operators are going to comply with our 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:47.440 rules. Okay. So it would be a problem to add wording to the effect that the field 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.640 assessment would be done. I guess is my question. Yeah. I think at this point in 00:14:51.640 --> 00:14:55.440 time that we're not touching the gas well ordinance. That was the 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.920 charge of our consultant and legal staff and we're gonna stay on that position 00:14:59.920 --> 00:15:04.760 currently unless council directs us to do otherwise. Okay. I'll get with you later 00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:10.960 because I don't understand why that there's that barrier there but let's not 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:16.080 drag it out here. Okay. Thank you. All right. Page 317. Under the 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:25.840 pairing buffer and water related habitat, 6.4.8A9. Permitted uses and 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:32.040 activities at states. Measures to remove or abate nuisances or other violation of 00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:36.280 state statute administrative rule on municipal code of ordinances. And I was 00:15:36.280 --> 00:15:42.080 wondering if we could cite some examples and say such as but not limited to and 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:57.760 insert some examples. Typically you don't want to do that in the code of ordinances. The purpose of this is to be brought and to allow for the 00:15:57.760 --> 00:16:02.120 possibility that there could be something that maybe wasn't anticipated 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.360 at the time this was written but the point is that if there is a state 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:12.920 statute or a administrative rule or maybe even a subsequent ordinance change 00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:21.800 that it would it would be taken into account here if it if it intervenes and 00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:30.200 and gives meaning here that's what is going to be applied. So the the reason 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:35.880 why you don't really want to do that is because over time ordinance provisions 00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:41.760 change as do statutes and sometimes if you put something in there and it does 00:16:41.760 --> 00:16:47.120 change and somebody isn't sharp enough to catch it and flag it as something that 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:52.120 needs to be changed it can give somebody an entirely wrong meaning and here it's 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.340 just really not necessary to give an example in order to leave open the 00:16:56.340 --> 00:17:00.840 possibility that there could be such a law. Okay. 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:18.640 Okay on the same page 317 I guess under permitted uses a 1. Residential 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.520 development shall be designed to retain a contiguous 50% tree canopy which shall 00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:27.880 remain predominantly in its natural state and my question is will this 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:34.960 remaining contiguous 50% tree tree canopy then be subject to the 70% tree 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:39.920 removal we discussed in the conservation landscape code I think in 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:55.560 our last PNC. Larry did you say 317 and just to clarify. Yeah it was 317A1. A1 okay that's 00:17:55.560 --> 00:18:02.560 regarding the public habitats. Right correct and that language actually has 00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:08.680 changed slightly so if as part of the ordinance that was approved by council 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:15.200 last night so so the version of the ESA and tree and landscape that's in this 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.720 version I think was part of that February February draft that was 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:24.160 circulated and so the language the language has changed in here slightly 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:29.920 where it references instead of saying shall remain predominantly in its natural 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:35.200 state it now reads residential development shall be designed to retain 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.840 a contiguous 50% of the area defined as upland habitat which shall remain in its 00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:44.960 natural state and so if it's not then it falls into that it falls out of it falls 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:49.120 into I'm sorry the development impact area and it would be subject to 00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:54.480 preservation and and mitigation. Okay which means I could remove up to 70% of 00:18:54.480 --> 00:19:02.040 that, is that right? They could in theory yes. Okay. On that very same question. 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:05.760 Commissioner Sanchez. Okay on the next question says preservation of upland 00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:11.320 habitat contiguous to forcing instead of preservation the word management it 00:19:11.320 --> 00:19:15.800 shouldn't we have because we and I've brought that up before if we just 00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:19.640 preserve it we're gonna lose it but there has to be some type of management 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:28.520 on that so I was wondering if that preservation could be my idea is just 00:19:28.520 --> 00:19:33.120 the word preservation means okay we're gonna stick it here and it's not going 00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:36.480 to be touched management means we're gonna take care of it and we're gonna 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:44.400 continue for keep managing for till things change so and also at the bottom 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:51.960 where you have select pruning conducted by or under the supervision what could 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:57.560 we add something like four is allow mowing in those areas because you also 00:19:57.560 --> 00:20:01.000 want to when we talk about upload when we're talking about cross inverse 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:04.640 habitat we're not just talking about trees we're talking about the understory 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:10.360 also so it's just not pruning trees but we also should be working looking at the 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:14.320 habitat and trying to bring bring back some of those that understory which 00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:20.320 would be maybe some of your Indian grass little bluestem big bluestem some of 00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:25.560 those that some of those species that are relevant in the upland habitat but 00:20:25.560 --> 00:20:30.120 where it seems like we're just concentrating on the on the on the 00:20:30.120 --> 00:20:35.680 upper store not the understory and and and I might ask that so when we receive 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:41.520 the the updated version of this when we ultimately PNZ passed the landscape and 00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:46.600 conservation ordinance councils passed that that language is some of this may 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:51.600 or may not change I don't know that okay the second piece to that is is that 00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:58.160 ultimately we're hopeful to get this draft code or the code through PNZ and 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:04.200 council both this code as well as the landscape and conservation code will 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.000 really be under this kind of six-month window that we have an opportunity to 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.120 kind of test and feel and if we have any comments to come back to that but 00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:17.920 because that section or this section has just recently been passed I'm just 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.600 recommending that we we don't make any changes okay 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:27.800 let me just add on to the the first question that you added is that you're 00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:31.720 talking about changing preservation to management I think it's fair to talk 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:34.780 about preservation in this context because they're talking about 00:21:34.780 --> 00:21:40.800 encouragement and so even if you even if you have management within that context 00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:45.600 it's still fair to talk about you know encouraging preservation where 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:51.280 appropriate and so I think with the wording the sentence is not it really at 00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:57.880 odds with the point that you're making it supplements the point okay well I 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:03.200 guess I'm assuming it's the preservation is going to happen so now once the 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.100 preservation is happening okay now let's do take it one step further and let's 00:22:07.100 --> 00:22:13.200 manage it yes please 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:22.320 I would like to bring to your attention item number four the item right behind 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:26.240 that talks about enhancement of restoration projects as approved by the 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:31.320 director of environmental services is a permitted activity so in those cases 00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:36.560 where the property owner is interested in actually improving the habit that and 00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:41.040 doing some sort of restoration work either by mowing the grasses or by 00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:47.180 clipping the treatment at the canopy to allow the penetration of light into the 00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:53.960 forested area all those are permitted activities right now so nothing prevents 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:58.340 somebody for managing for the improvement of the habitat because that 00:22:58.340 --> 00:23:03.700 is deemed as a permitted activity so would they just have to get a permit 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:10.080 from in order to do it probably we don't have a permit process per se they just 00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:15.760 have to contact us and we will you know lead them through the process they would 00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:21.140 probably have to submit a some sort of description of the type of work that 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:26.960 will be done for what purposes and so on and if that is conducive to the 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.760 restoration enhancement the health of the habitat we will approve it and they'd 00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:38.080 have to demonstrate if I may to that demonstrate that they are a certified 00:23:38.080 --> 00:23:42.560 member of the International Society of correct if they're going to trim the 00:23:42.560 --> 00:23:55.160 canopy yes okay just for trimming yes okay Mr. back back to you thank you 00:23:55.160 --> 00:24:08.800 page 320 footnote 827 related to on-site detention facility states city staff is 00:24:08.800 --> 00:24:13.520 considering if detention facility should be publicly dedicated or whether all 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:18.440 should be privately maintained future revisions this section may be included 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:23.120 pending these discussions would cause and my question is would cause to be 00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:29.920 prohibited if this city assume its responsibility on all just two facets to 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.560 that and that's where it is that it speaks city staffs considering if 00:24:32.560 --> 00:24:36.640 detention facility should be publicly dedicated so there may be private and 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:40.960 there may be public and we're working through that right now as to that 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:57.160 determination okay thanks continuing page 324 floodways j4 says developments 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:01.760 discharging stormwater runoff into a floodway shall provide supplemental 00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:07.120 vegetation on-site and off-site areas and public easements when necessary to 00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:11.360 preserve or restore any disruption to the natural site and the footnote for 00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:18.120 this 850 down at the bottom ask how does this relate to other parts of the code 00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:22.440 where vegetation is prohibited in drainage areas should we not remove 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:27.880 blanket should we not remove blanket prohibitions on vegetation in these 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:34.200 areas and I'm thinking perhaps if if it's not land disruptive to the natural 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:39.120 flow is that and and again I think that engineering is working through those 00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:42.320 components there's some conversations that are taking place on types of 00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:47.720 drainage okay so and I think between engineering and environmental services 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:52.120 that that conversation we'll get some feedback on that later right okay thank 00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:57.800 you anybody else want to jump in any time they want to just go right again 00:25:57.800 --> 00:26:13.400 yours yours okay page 332 6.6 dot 7g easement requirements 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:27.380 6.6 dot 7 g easement requirements says if utility inspection or repair or 00:26:27.380 --> 00:26:33.240 reconstruction is necessary any pavement structure or improvement damage within a 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:38.160 dedicated utility utility easement shall not be the responsibility of the city 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.640 for any repairs but shall be the sole responsibility of the owner and I know 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:49.080 with it and I guess I'm asking with the exception of what's listed in below j 00:26:49.080 --> 00:26:52.040 1 2 & 3 00:26:52.040 --> 00:27:00.880 but it says the following under typically allowed to be installed within 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:05.360 public utility water sewer easements and I'm sorry Commissioner back what is your 00:27:05.360 --> 00:27:11.680 question on that okay well it's stating that if utility inspection repair 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.040 reconstruction is necessary any payment structure improvement damage within 00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:18.800 dedicated utility it shall not be the responsibility of the city for any 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:22.640 repairs but shall be the sole responsibility of the owner but then 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:31.120 down here on j 1 2 & 3 it talks about drive approaches and parking lots if 00:27:31.120 --> 00:27:35.840 they come in and damage somebody's driveway it's up to the owner to repair 00:27:35.840 --> 00:27:40.920 the driveway no I think it's saying two different things one is is that it's 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:46.000 allowed to be installed within that gives the authority to install something 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.080 within this other is stating if in fact there is it's not the responsibility of 00:27:51.080 --> 00:27:57.120 the city for the repairs but the person owns the property even though the city 00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:08.640 not it's not suggesting that if this city necessarily okay it that reads like 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.240 it does so to me I guess 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:22.280 good afternoon Frank Pugsley water utilities director and to answer your 00:28:22.280 --> 00:28:27.360 question directly yes if there's a driveway or landscaping grass in one of 00:28:27.360 --> 00:28:31.860 our easements and we damage it by utility installation or repair then we 00:28:31.860 --> 00:28:36.480 do repair those items okay as a routine practice and I guess what I was yeah I 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.520 think the answer to question yes this is going to be like in a residential 00:28:39.520 --> 00:28:47.400 neighborhood correct okay okay right the next ones for me to so I'm gonna hang 00:28:47.400 --> 00:29:00.600 out okay on page no that may be all for you 339 330 okay you got it okay under 00:29:00.600 --> 00:29:05.000 private water systems by by allowing this to occur under the specified 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:08.800 conditions how does this address the issue of wastewater will they be tied 00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:15.120 into wastewater treatment systems addressed on page 342 item number six so 00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:18.640 what this is intended to cover for private water systems and private 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.720 wastewater treatment systems are generally for developments that may be 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:26.360 far out in the ETJ where we don't have utility service and it's cost-prohibitive 00:29:26.360 --> 00:29:30.760 for those developments to make those improvements but there are cases where 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:35.040 we may have water utilities in the vicinity but not wastewater or vice 00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:40.280 versa so there may be a system on a private water well system it's also on 00:29:40.280 --> 00:29:44.400 public Denton sewer and there may be a situation where they're on city of 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.120 Denton wastewater service and have well the other way around they may be on 00:29:48.120 --> 00:29:52.960 private wastewater treatment and have city of Denton water supplied so it 00:29:52.960 --> 00:30:16.080 could be an either or or both okay does that does that answer that did I answer 00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:19.800 that appropriately or enough for that okay I want to make sure I covered it 00:30:19.800 --> 00:30:26.200 thank you I appreciate you having in front of you and ready to answer me on 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:53.200 page 346 6.6 point 17 a dot three under plans and specifications 6.6 6.6 point 00:30:53.200 --> 00:31:14.160 17 6.6 17 begins on 343 all right under plans and specifications that is not 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:29.040 even there 16.6 point 17 is plans and specifications okay so a three 00:31:29.040 --> 00:31:37.680 landscaping screen buffering and tree standards for electric station 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:45.360 substations and switch stations shall be pursuant section 6.6 okay and I think 00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:51.120 there was just an error there should that be shall be pursuant to 16 point 13 00:31:51.120 --> 00:32:02.280 points it because there is no six point 12 six and I would just and I think some 00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:08.000 of this is subject to change again when we get into those nope it's a great 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:33.280 yep appreciate that on page 349 B it mentions 00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:47.240 grass swells this may get answered in the downloaded by the grasses in her 00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:54.080 landscape plant list in the site design for type criteria manual mainly lower 00:32:54.080 --> 00:33:04.480 maintenance grasses in other words if they're requiring grass swells are we 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:09.080 requiring grasses that are low water maintenance 00:33:09.080 --> 00:33:19.040 Debra do you have an answer to that by chance I know it references I swim and I 00:33:19.040 --> 00:33:27.920 don't know if I swim has a specific type I swim doesn't have a specific list of 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:32.080 plans but I would like to bring to your attention that the city of them have a 00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:37.760 native plant list that include grasses and those are the ones that we recommend 00:33:37.760 --> 00:33:42.280 to be to be used as long as they can tolerate some inundation because as 00:33:42.280 --> 00:33:47.200 again they will be in that in contact with water for some period of time so 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:52.520 when somebody provide a landscape plan one of the things that we look into it 00:33:52.520 --> 00:33:57.840 is are they suitable for the functions that they're being proposed they do have 00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:01.800 to water it for a period of time and then like after two or three years it's 00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:06.600 supposed to take on its own well you're talking about the establishment part and 00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:09.840 it goes back especially if there are trees or something like that where 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:15.120 they're offering as a landscape they those are subject to replacement if 00:34:15.120 --> 00:34:21.560 those vegetative materials they don't do well so when we look into any stone 00:34:21.560 --> 00:34:27.600 water controls we look into how suitable that plan is to withstand the amount of 00:34:27.600 --> 00:34:32.060 water that they would be dealing with and anything that is outside the stone 00:34:32.060 --> 00:34:36.560 water controls we have the native plan list for the city of Denton native to 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:40.400 the Denton County specific to that in County so they can always use that type 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.840 of that list for as a resource okay thanks 00:34:49.360 --> 00:35:00.040 okay page 352 under permits enforcement routes item I three and if I make 00:35:00.040 --> 00:35:04.600 Commissioner Beck this is in that landscape screening buffering fences 00:35:04.600 --> 00:35:08.840 we're probably going to be in that same place just as an FYI because I think 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:17.860 this is in that same piece is it not okay what she was talking about if they 00:35:17.860 --> 00:35:23.120 die within a certain period of time no the what Scott was saying is that the 00:35:23.120 --> 00:35:27.400 ordinance that was passed yesterday okay unless you have a question we can answer 00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:30.880 we can answer that but if we're thinking of changing anything it would have to 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:41.920 you be later okay all right and item J under the same page at the bottom there 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:46.600 it states in instances where easements encourage and again this is just a 00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:53.560 correction in instances where easements encumbrances physical traits or life 00:35:53.560 --> 00:35:57.760 safety requirements limit the ability to plant the required trees needed to meet 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:02.720 the minimum tree canopy coverage and applicants may pay into the tree fund 00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:06.760 as an alternative and I was wondering if we couldn't reword that shall pay into 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:12.160 the tree no all right we'll be back right back in the same place okay we've 00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:15.720 just passed that and I will also say probably the next couple of items page 00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:22.600 358 355 358 and I think maybe we can jump to 360 because all of those are 00:36:22.600 --> 00:36:29.640 parking landscape and trees so okay I'll just also point out that the word shall 00:36:29.640 --> 00:36:34.720 is inconsistent with the concept of it being an alternative you know shall is 00:36:34.720 --> 00:36:41.040 generally regarded as mandatory as you have no other option whereas alternative 00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:49.040 is indicated that there is another option was there a heading quote-unquote 00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:54.220 alternative there that we were dealing with in the in the in the current the 00:36:54.220 --> 00:36:58.440 version that was adopted last night that section was actually moved and so there 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:03.360 is a section titled alternative relief for landscape tree canopy and buffer 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.400 requirements and there's two choices you can either go through an alternative 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.960 landscape plan or you can do this the payment in lieu okay under these 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:17.920 circumstances okay and then page 360 I misspoke because the signage for the 00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:23.080 tree removal is not going to be there so that's it that's a no I was talking 00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:26.680 with Richard about this earlier okay a little concerned about that I was 00:37:26.680 --> 00:37:31.440 wondering if part of that couldn't be reconsidered is that locked in now it's 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.520 we've just passed an ordinance through City Council and and that piece has been 00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:41.160 in our code for years we've never we've never enforced it but but again we just 00:37:41.160 --> 00:37:45.640 passed that ordinance so we're not gonna recommend any changes to the landscape 00:37:45.640 --> 00:37:50.960 section until we get the entirety of the code out there and and I think that it 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:58.160 was quite interactive with council last night to the point of making any changes 00:37:58.160 --> 00:38:01.360 that that we're gonna pretty much stick to that because I think that's where 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.080 council is we certainly will take this in will capture the comment and as we go 00:38:06.080 --> 00:38:10.280 through the process of evaluating this we can take it into consideration okay my 00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:14.040 concern was here there's going to be a lot of areas probably where okay the 00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:17.600 signage it's not there it's not gonna be that big a deal we're definitely gonna 00:38:17.600 --> 00:38:22.480 run into areas where there are protected trees it should be protected if they're 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.260 going to be taken down and mitigating there's going to be neighborhoods where 00:38:26.260 --> 00:38:29.000 they'll be up in arms if they weren't notified and didn't have a chance to 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:33.880 protest and I understand the developers don't want to do no it really came from 00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:39.320 actually our one of our council members to the point that putting a sign up 00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:44.420 gives the neighbors a false sense that they have a say and whether those trees 00:38:44.420 --> 00:38:49.520 could be removed or not so the sign is just misleading it's telling someone 00:38:49.520 --> 00:38:54.200 that that someone is going to try to go through what our legal process is to do 00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:58.220 that and the neighbors don't really necessarily have a say as to whether the 00:38:58.220 --> 00:39:03.320 trees stay or removed so that was the catalyst for it and I'm happy to speak 00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:11.120 to you offline on it okay all right page 361 and 362 there's two items here item 00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:21.520 D and item E P Larry those those are also in the landscape looking at the 00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:26.640 list that you provided staff the next one that's not in under landscaping 00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:33.320 would be page 373 where you're talking about access and circulation okay page 00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:43.680 373 6.8.3 a six access and circulation 00:39:43.680 --> 00:39:51.320 traffic calming measures where future cut-through traffic is likely is this a 00:39:51.320 --> 00:40:00.480 recommendation or is it going to be required the plan is required and this 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.760 is one of the elements that would be included within the plan okay so calming 00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:11.520 devices street calming devices would be where future cut-through traffic is 00:40:11.520 --> 00:40:15.280 likely so it's again is a required part of the plan if in fact it would be 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:32.320 applicable okay okay page three seven five six point eight point three point a 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:49.360 six yep sorry page three seventy five six point eight point six C to a as 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.440 part of the city's effort to encourage safety can we require street signs and 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.600 it's just a suggestion when we're building a new development to educate the 00:40:58.600 --> 00:41:02.120 public because I mean there's there's a lot of people out there that you know how 00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:06.560 come there's so many bikes on the streets they shouldn't be allowed to we 00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:11.600 know that it should be I was just something you to consider okay let me 00:41:11.600 --> 00:41:14.840 throw it out there and then we'll move on if we could put share the road signs 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:18.760 you know the share road signs with the bike on it in a new development it's on 00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:26.120 a arterial collector's street Larry or Commissioner Beck the only way that can 00:41:26.120 --> 00:41:31.800 happen would be as part of a bike plan where it's identified under bike 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:38.760 planning and if it is implemented and constructed to fit a bike or didn't be 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:43.200 identified then a sign will be and painted markings will be included but it 00:41:43.200 --> 00:41:49.200 can't be where it is requested it has to be okay consistent with the bike plan 00:41:49.200 --> 00:42:09.600 it was I was just throwing that out there anyways thanks all right this one was a little confusing for me on page 376 377 6.8.7 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:22.560 6.8.7 a for if the street is open when proposed to serve as a divided arterial 00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:26.040 street and the development is required to install half of the arterial street 00:42:26.040 --> 00:42:31.520 then the curb and gutter shall be provided on both sides of the street so 00:42:31.520 --> 00:42:35.600 as to provide the curve for the future meeting of the arterial street okay that 00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:38.240 sounds to me like we're gonna build half the street with the curb and gutter on 00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:42.400 one side and then there's gonna be what dirt there but there's gonna be a curb 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:48.120 and gutter am I reading am I misreading that no it would it would be a complete 00:42:48.120 --> 00:42:54.680 half of the street so where it is that it's a divided and divided arterial 00:42:54.680 --> 00:42:58.400 right so they would build half of the street so if it was going to be a four 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:03.200 lane two lanes each side of a divided they would be building potentially the 00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:09.920 two lanes on one half of that street and just so happens the pre tam is here and 00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.200 he would be happy to address let's not pull him into something he's gonna be 00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:36.320 hit with that's all right I was asking yeah there's pastry said 76 77 6.8 point 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:43.080 seven point a for the way it's worded there says is the street is ultimately 00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:46.440 proposed to serve as a divided arterial street and the development is required 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.800 to install half of the arterial street and the curb and gutter shall provide it 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.320 on both sides of the street so as to provide the curve for the future meaning 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.840 of the arterial street and it the way what went through my mind is we're gonna 00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:02.000 build one half of the curb and gutter on one side but we're not gonna build the 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:05.080 other half street but we're gonna put the curb and gutter over there is that 00:44:05.080 --> 00:44:09.560 no so so the way it read this pre temptation of traffic in here for the 00:44:09.560 --> 00:44:13.640 city the way it is set up at the other side of the curb and gutter that's away 00:44:13.640 --> 00:44:18.200 from the development is the curb for the median so that would be the median in in 00:44:18.200 --> 00:44:22.920 the middle okay and the rest of it will be on the other do we need change the 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:29.760 wording so stupid people like me can pick no I'm gonna pause real fast 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:33.960 Christian Sanchez had a question and let him jump in under a street connect 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:41.920 connectivity 374 that's one of being one of my concerns is on see number two it 00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:45.800 says street systems for each development shall connect with existing and 00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:50.520 proposed and just and anticipated streets and that's one one of the things 00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:56.440 we did back in a couple with meetings ago though I remember there was an area 00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:00.200 back on Ryan and there was an anticipated street that had already been 00:45:00.200 --> 00:45:05.760 identified that this was going to go through and and we dropped that and my 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:10.400 question is are we how important is that quest to me it's very important that we 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:15.440 continue to look at connectivity between the neighborhoods because we build we 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:19.560 build little enclaves you know the developer comes in puts a little 00:45:19.560 --> 00:45:23.720 enclave and then nobody wants the neighbors but we don't want these people 00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:27.160 to come through our neighborhood you know and we hear that time and time again 00:45:27.160 --> 00:45:32.280 and I'd like to just make a comment on that is that we need to start looking 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:36.120 that people need to go through other neighborhoods instead of just when 00:45:36.120 --> 00:45:39.560 people come up to us and say hey we don't want them to come this we don't 00:45:39.560 --> 00:45:42.400 want that neighborhood people could start coming through us it's going to 00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.400 increase the neighborhood traffic and I guess I just want to make a comment on 00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:51.640 that because that was one thing that we had a couple of weeks a couple of 00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:56.800 meetings back is it was planned and just because the people didn't want it all of 00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:00.240 a sudden we decided okay we're not going to do this we'll just they'll have to go 00:46:00.240 --> 00:46:03.840 get back on Ryan and come back to the next neighborhood rather than coming 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:09.000 through there so I guess Mike it's just a comment is if this is what we're saying 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:16.240 we need to look at this more serious and not just go by what people want don't 00:46:16.240 --> 00:46:21.340 come into our neighborhood and look at that we need to connect the city all the 00:46:21.340 --> 00:46:26.160 streets so that people look at the city as not this is my little enclave but 00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:31.200 rather this is our city and I think I see that a lot in a lot of meetings that 00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:34.640 we have don't come into my neighborhood but it's not your neighborhood it's our 00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:39.440 city rather than correct so there are a couple things here one of the important 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.840 ones is definitely we will look at collector connections through the 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.240 neighborhoods and subdivisions so we want the collectors to collect all the 00:46:47.240 --> 00:46:51.360 traffic from different subdivisions and they will across subdivisions to connect 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:55.440 to the arterial so yes we're looking at collectors but as well as we're looking 00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:00.660 at residential streets that make sense where to connect and there are several 00:47:00.660 --> 00:47:05.360 new developments that we're looking at is we're asking asking the developer to 00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:10.640 have those step outs and connections that way it becomes a cohesive network and it 00:47:10.640 --> 00:47:16.040 makes sure that our circulation system is planned to channel that traffic to 00:47:16.040 --> 00:47:20.280 the appropriate street system so right we're looking at them on a case-by-case 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:26.480 basis but definitely want the connections to be made and one more you 00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:31.400 know it's under well I didn't find it I was wondering we didn't address on this 00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:35.920 anything about roundabouts are we gonna even address anything like that I think 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:41.160 it's very important I mean this is my opinion it's something that you know we 00:47:41.160 --> 00:47:44.760 keep talking about traffic how you know we keep getting all these you know 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:48.480 traffic keeps getting worse but then we had somebody here last week talk about 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.940 how roundabouts actually help traffic move traffic yet we don't talk about it 00:47:52.940 --> 00:47:59.560 we want to keep doing red lights green lights you know so I'm getting some 00:47:59.560 --> 00:48:05.760 different so as far as roundabouts we are moving into a realm of there will be 00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:12.120 an intersection analysis to determine it what type of control is necessary it 00:48:12.120 --> 00:48:20.120 could start from stop signs to go into signals so every arterial every collector 00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:24.840 intersection will be reviewed to see if it's appropriate for a roundabout and 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:28.800 that becomes part of our toolbox or when we're talking to developers as well as 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.800 when we're looking at our own capital projects so should that be addressed 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.400 here we can definitely add something to that effect pretty time can you just 00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:42.720 clarify is roundabouts covered in the transportation criteria manual it is 00:48:42.720 --> 00:48:47.000 part it is covered as mentioned is described how in the transportation 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:52.680 criteria manual okay I guess I didn't see well the way we really set this up is 00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:57.160 to is to make the mandatory standards that are never going to change in here 00:48:57.160 --> 00:49:02.440 and address the design standards in the criteria okay okay so you know staff 00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.920 never knows when you know like for example you were talking about the 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:13.920 situation with connectivity or what have you obviously the City Council believed 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:18.800 that it was important to not provide connectivity there but you watch your 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:23.200 code to be written in such a way that it would it would allow for either option 00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:30.760 address that as a matter of design to bring forward and still provide the 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:38.720 option for it to go either way I think Jerry makes a good point just as a 00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:44.640 reminder that that the code the code is one part of what we use so as our 00:49:44.640 --> 00:49:51.040 standards we have water wastewater criteria manuals you know the 00:49:51.040 --> 00:49:56.720 transportation any number of other complementary guides that go along with 00:49:56.720 --> 00:50:02.720 this and and I do want to point out as some of our standards and requirements 00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:08.640 keep on changing the criteria manuals are updated on an annual basis so and 00:50:08.640 --> 00:50:13.840 that's much more relative to what's happening around us as we move forward 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:18.320 with some of the education pieces and people become more aware subdivisions or 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:23.080 developers come in with more plans for roundabouts then we will continue to 00:50:23.080 --> 00:50:27.480 update that component but this is pretty much as Jerry pointed out this is 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.840 overall big picture applies to everyone and then the criteria specific that we 00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:40.680 can look into per as developments come in you get a commissioner 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:57.120 Mr. back here pretend stay with us on this next one here on page 382 h 6.8 00:50:57.120 --> 00:51:03.120 point 9 h 1 says driveway access to single and it's talking about collector 00:51:03.120 --> 00:51:07.800 streets access to collector streets driveway access to single-family detached 00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:16.760 or duplex duplex building units is not permitted is that right for yes for 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:20.640 collector streets collectors are typically where all the residential 00:51:20.640 --> 00:51:27.440 streets coming in feed so it's more of a step up from residential use where you 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.120 do not want the primary function of that is to just channelize traffic out of the 00:51:31.120 --> 00:51:35.400 neighborhood it's not for people to get out of their houses the residential 00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:39.880 streets are defined or classified for people to get out of their driveways but 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.880 collectors are where some of these residential streets meet and that's a 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:47.560 bigger road to connect to an arterial so that's the way that functional 00:51:47.560 --> 00:51:55.400 classification is set do we have situations where homes are on collector 00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.240 streets now and yes well how about like Teasley where it goes alongside South 00:52:00.240 --> 00:52:05.120 Lakes Park you don't have any of those homes that are alongside Teasley exiting 00:52:05.120 --> 00:52:10.360 their driveways directly on to Teasley you have them going on to some 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.240 neighborhood streets and then follow the neighborhood streets and then get on to 00:52:14.240 --> 00:52:18.920 Teasley from that neighborhood street but on Hobson there's single-family homes 00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:23.280 that right they are attached to a collector street okay Hobson's a 00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:28.440 collector street right right okay how does that work retroactively I mean that 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:32.840 is what it is yes when we go back and when Hobson will be looked at for 00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:40.560 widening improvement CIB project we will find ways to address that situation 00:52:40.560 --> 00:52:51.120 okay thanks let me read this one just to make sure okay this is one that seems 00:52:51.120 --> 00:53:09.960 redundant to me on page 391 just for clarity sake 391 6.9 6.9.2 a - what 00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:17.920 distinguishes little a III the square footage of non-residential building is 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:26.200 expanded or enlarged by more than 50% from BII the square footage of 00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:31.960 non-residential building is expanded or large by between 10 to 15 percent what 00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:35.720 you're almost saying the same thing but you're throwing in a little exception 00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:45.640 there so what am I missing here sorry Commissioner back to a refers to the 00:53:45.640 --> 00:53:54.280 entire site when it exceeds 50 percent by more than 50 percent where it's 00:53:54.280 --> 00:54:06.480 between 10 and 15 it is just applied to the area that is being expanded okay so 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:13.320 again the requirement for parking applies to new primary structure that is 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:17.880 constructed an existing primary structure that is relocated on a lot so 00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:22.520 that's when parking would be requirement be required however expansion and 00:54:22.520 --> 00:54:27.000 enlargement is what we're referring to right in any or all expansion or 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:34.960 enlargement shall be considered if they fall under the following categories if 00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:40.880 there is a need for expansion of a property the entire site shall comply 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:47.680 with this section the parking requirements when now I'm gonna go to a 00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:52.160 three the square footage of the non-residential building is expanded by 00:54:52.160 --> 00:54:56.520 more than 50% so if you expand your building by more than 50% you're gonna 00:54:56.520 --> 00:55:00.200 have to comply with the parking requirements for the entire site okay 00:55:00.200 --> 00:55:06.560 if it's between 10 and 50 10 and 50% it would only just apply to that the 00:55:06.560 --> 00:55:11.360 portion of the site being expanded and or improved shall comply with the parking 00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:19.640 requirements okay and it's cumulative over two year period to avoid 00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:24.720 incremental changes so if you do 25 percent one year and you think okay I'm 00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:29.400 gonna get it another 25 percent or 30 the next year it would then bring it up 00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:36.680 so we're still good okay still require it all right 00:55:36.680 --> 00:55:53.440 hang on a second okay page three I did something wrong 00:55:53.440 --> 00:56:02.320 393 yeah but I meant six and 83 c5 I think yeah so it's actually at the top 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:12.520 of 393 right on the top of page 393 calculations and I'm not sure I 00:56:12.520 --> 00:56:16.960 understand why structured parking underground parking and parking within 00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:22.640 above or beneath the building it serves are not counted towards the maximum 00:56:22.640 --> 00:56:35.120 parking requirement the the underground and the parking above a building means 00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:39.600 that they're not really taking up any land area because the building already 00:56:39.600 --> 00:56:43.480 is there so that would make sense that it wouldn't count towards the parking 00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:47.120 maximum again we have anything outside the footprint of the building that's 00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:50.780 what you're talking right and then the question I'm pausing is the structured 00:56:50.780 --> 00:56:54.960 parking that is obviously if that's not part of a building right that takes up 00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:04.680 area and why won't we count then and that's a good okay okay so if the 00:57:04.680 --> 00:57:09.240 structure parking is below or above and that thing that's what just Scott just 00:57:09.240 --> 00:57:12.880 clarified okay again if it doesn't if it if it's within the building footprint we 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:17.760 will not count it because it's already taken up by that okay and just as we 00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:23.600 talked about that we have a minimum and we have a maximum and one of that 00:57:23.600 --> 00:57:28.400 significant changes is that we're in we're allowing a hundred and twenty five 00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:33.720 percent I guess another twenty five percent to be the maximum so you can you 00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:38.080 can provide the minimum if you want to exceed that by twenty five percent you 00:57:38.080 --> 00:57:41.360 can right so it's it's different from what we currently have where it's the 00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:49.640 men in the max is the required parking oh we still have and then you could have 00:57:49.640 --> 00:58:08.160 another 500 underground okay page 394 table 698 required all-street parking as 00:58:08.160 --> 00:58:13.960 it refers to four spaces for duplexes is this four spaces for each duplex 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:19.400 dwelling unit or two for each to give the entire duplex dwelling unit four 00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:21.840 spaces 00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:34.280 there's a dwelling unit is the duplex duplex is to you is that two dwelling 00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:39.840 units mm-hmm okay so one dwelling unit half of that duplex in other words can 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:42.760 have four spaces 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:53.760 we were just going through because I'm looking at the public draft on the 00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:58.960 initial adoption draft some some things have already been updated we don't have 00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:04.160 the initial adoption draft out there and that is that is this draft that was 00:59:04.160 --> 00:59:09.640 corrected that's what you have the public draft is out there just yeah it's 00:59:09.640 --> 00:59:21.640 this version with some corrections with some I'm sorry what was it so yeah the 00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:26.560 table it says duplexes that can have four spaces per dwelling unit not 00:59:26.560 --> 00:59:33.320 including ten apart so are we talking about a total a total okay so each half 00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:37.120 of the duplex and can have up to four just like a house correct there was the 00:59:37.120 --> 00:59:41.600 there's a provision and I think it carried forward where if it's in a in an 00:59:41.600 --> 00:59:48.240 infill area and and primary that the area with the surrounding area primarily 00:59:48.240 --> 00:59:52.600 has two then you're able to you're able to reduce that okay and we're talking 00:59:52.600 --> 00:59:59.440 about all street parking here correct okay okay 00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:09.000 okay so on the same table on page 395 does the minimum number of parking 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:13.200 spaces for elderly housing take into consideration staff parking could not 01:00:13.200 --> 01:00:20.240 you know I don't see a lot of elderly housing units where each resident is 01:00:20.240 --> 01:00:24.480 gonna have a car so it's are they taking staff parking into consideration when 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:28.160 they create that figure 01:00:28.160 --> 01:00:37.840 especially retirement well I'm honestly rest homes yes nursing and convalescent 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:46.280 homes I wouldn't think each resident would have a car so and regardless of 01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:49.680 that I guess what I'm asking is was staff obviously you're gonna have 01:00:49.680 --> 01:01:01.520 probably more staff vehicles then you're gonna have resident vehicles so when 01:01:01.520 --> 01:01:05.240 okay on the elderly housing especially when we're talking about rest homes and 01:01:05.240 --> 01:01:09.000 nursing convalescent home we're probably talking about the people are gonna have 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:14.000 cars they're not necessarily gonna be the residents I'm thinking so when this 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:24.400 figure what is it three per patient beds did we count in staff parking I believe 01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:29.920 it is in that it's included in that number I don't yeah 01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:42.320 commissioner back by if I can try to answer that question sure it's really 01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:47.040 it's a carryover from our current code as you can see where the second column 01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:54.000 or the third column it carries over it's one space per three bedrooms the 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:59.000 question is does account account for employee my understanding that it does 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:15.760 because of the amount and what use it is that's all thank you of course thanks 01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:19.240 for those questions commissioner is there other questions from the 01:02:19.240 --> 01:02:23.520 Commission and then Ron if you have some over you said you had some like 01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:32.160 highlight yes yes if there's no other questions we can kind of go over some of 01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:36.200 the significant changes it's not going to be a third page turn that is it's 01:02:36.200 --> 01:02:43.080 just gonna be a really high level again I just want to express that we have some 01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:50.360 staff members here that represent saw ways D me fire probably missing a few 01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:55.200 people here so again here's an opportunity if you have any questions for 01:02:55.200 --> 01:03:00.800 them I encourage that however there is none I can certainly could proceed with 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:15.200 those significant changes and that's the other questions so again what we're 01:03:15.200 --> 01:03:20.800 talking about today is subchapters six seven and eight some of the significant 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:25.800 changes is again we consolidated all of the sub chapters as you all know we've 01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:31.160 got 24 sub chapters currently and we've so we've narrowed down to eight and so 01:03:31.160 --> 01:03:37.320 sub chapter six contains the majority of them and this is why it's such an 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:43.000 important sub chapter to me one of the other things that we looked at is try to 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:49.000 be more flexible through provisions of options and menu based standards and you 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:55.400 saw that as part of the landscape ordinance there are points in buffer sorry 01:03:55.400 --> 01:04:00.720 landscaping and buffer points associated with that another important change or 01:04:00.720 --> 01:04:05.440 update we want to make sure that we address compatibility we've we've 01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:11.720 increased that as far as standards a lot of procedures that you normally saw or 01:04:11.720 --> 01:04:19.960 see in the sub chapters existing have been relocated to chapter 2 but also 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:27.440 included in the transportation criteria manual that Debra mentioned pretem as 01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:33.520 referenced we are also working on a site plan criteria manual as well so we want 01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:39.560 to make sure that what's in the code is requirements while the criteria manuals 01:04:39.560 --> 01:04:47.320 are more design standards per se which can be amended a lot easier than than if 01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.960 we were to do a full-blown code amendment infill and redevelopment 01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:56.360 standards those are something that we heard a lot from the community we hear a 01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:02.320 lot from development but also from the general public as well so we've added 01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:08.400 more we've actually removed the infill special purpose district it no longer 01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:14.040 exists so we have embedded a lot of those standards in the stamp the site 01:05:14.040 --> 01:05:18.480 design standards so that again anyone that wants to develop within an infill 01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:26.720 redevelop property they are more able to let me see here updated expansion 01:05:26.720 --> 01:05:30.760 applicability table I know that when Clarion was here they talked about that 01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.360 a little bit so that's not going to go away we have a different version of that 01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:40.760 and that is actually included in the draft so that is going to be continued 01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:44.040 conservation and landscape ordinance that we already talked about that that 01:05:44.040 --> 01:05:49.040 was adopted last night there was an effective I'm sorry an adoption date of 01:05:49.040 --> 01:05:54.400 last night and an effective date of October 1st so I don't know if you have 01:05:54.400 --> 01:06:01.000 any questions either Richard or Haley can can clarify or maybe Scott what does 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:07.280 that mean there's an applicant get to use the current code and then choose to 01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:12.360 apply use the other code that's that's something that I believe that was the 01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:19.200 intent is to have that flexibility so is that clear as far as how that is going 01:06:19.200 --> 01:06:30.920 to proceed we're looking at that we talked about buffer standards we have 01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:36.240 again as part of the landscape and conservation code a development impact 01:06:36.240 --> 01:06:41.320 area I know Richard had talked about that in his presentation so if you all 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:46.760 have any questions please ask but I think that was covered well where we're 01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:52.240 also looking at how we address walls and fences I know with the DC RC we talked 01:06:52.240 --> 01:06:56.480 with that in length I think it was two and a half days is what was referred to 01:06:56.480 --> 01:07:02.600 as the discussion on fences so we've spent a lot of time on that we 01:07:02.600 --> 01:07:06.360 incorporated the parking requirements that was approved back in May of last 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:12.120 year and again what I mentioned earlier regarding the maximum it's no longer 01:07:12.120 --> 01:07:16.600 your min and your max is the same rather if you meet the minimum you're good if 01:07:16.600 --> 01:07:22.880 you choose to extend that and want more parking we're allowing that 25% above 01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:28.440 and I think that would help in when we when we see again for example ADP's 01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:33.080 right we won't get those because there's the flexibility built in here to allow 01:07:33.080 --> 01:07:37.720 that it's not saying that they will go there but at least they have the option 01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:42.600 and that's the theme that works we're trying to provide here is options and 01:07:42.600 --> 01:07:48.560 flexibility but still meeting the standards that we really want to have 01:07:48.560 --> 01:07:58.520 let's see here as far as the subdivision standards I'm gonna go on to sub chapter 01:07:58.520 --> 01:08:05.240 7 if nobody else has any questions on sub chapter 6 again sub chapter 6 has 01:08:05.240 --> 01:08:10.740 lighting and has solid waste so just want to make sure that you know this is 01:08:10.740 --> 01:08:14.840 the opportunity if you have any questions on those standards we're able 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:26.000 to answer those today if not we'll move on to subdivision okay there's no 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:33.040 questions on 6 we're gonna move on to 7 let's go for it okay so sub chapter 7 is 01:08:33.040 --> 01:08:38.760 your subdivision regulation standards your platting what's when a plat is 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:45.360 required what the design requirements and subdivision improvements are 01:08:45.360 --> 01:08:51.120 required as part of that platting so a lot of again what we're trying to do is 01:08:51.120 --> 01:08:56.520 trying to streamline or clean up and clear up some of the requirements we 01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:00.280 relocate a lot of the administrative administration and procedure section to 01:09:00.280 --> 01:09:05.400 chapter 2 sub chapter 2 a lot of the information again that's in there today 01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:11.880 is either going into a criteria manual or referenced as part of the code of 01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:20.100 ordinances the use or the applicability within the ETJ that has been enhanced a 01:09:20.100 --> 01:09:28.200 couple of new options for developers or maybe more refined options that is is 01:09:28.200 --> 01:09:36.920 gated community cluster development and autocorps so I think everybody knows 01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:41.960 what gated communities are we've got a couple examples that we have in the city 01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:46.200 cluster development does anybody have any question that cluster development the 01:09:46.200 --> 01:09:54.760 concept essentially you have a minimum lot size for each lot in a in a zoning 01:09:54.760 --> 01:10:01.720 district if you want to cluster the development to preserve some open space 01:10:01.720 --> 01:10:09.560 you're able to and actually reduce your lot minimum to accomplish that so for 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:19.760 example nr3 the minimum let's use nr2 for example nr2 has a minimum lot area 01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:27.140 of 16,000 if you want to consolidate or cluster that development and have 01:10:27.140 --> 01:10:32.480 smaller watch you can and the option there is to go as low as I believe is 01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:38.220 2,500 which is is a fairly low I mean square footage however by doing that 01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:44.240 you're saying you're gonna preserve or conserve the other area within that 01:10:44.240 --> 01:10:50.600 development for open space so that's a positive portion of cluster development 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:56.440 and I believe there is an exhibit that was shown by Clarion and certainly is 01:10:56.440 --> 01:10:59.840 further explained in the code so I just want to make sure that we understand 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:03.920 what cluster development and that's one of I think the goals of the den plan 01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:11.360 2030 is to offer that so that we can reserve and preserve conserve some of 01:11:11.360 --> 01:11:16.120 the more rural areas that are within the periphery of the city Ron I have a 01:11:16.120 --> 01:11:21.600 question about that I was speaking to a local developer and he had seen the 01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:28.360 exhibit by Clarion with the reconstruction of the lots and I have 01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:31.800 to apologize for my ignorance but he expressed some concern that the design 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:40.400 criteria wouldn't fully allow for the full thought process of the cluster 01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:45.680 development to actually come to fruition so how does the city look at or can you 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:49.800 tell me about the alignment with the design criteria manual supporting the 01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:54.400 actual development of cluster development because to his concern and I 01:11:54.400 --> 01:11:57.840 would echo it is we have the idea of cluster development but the design 01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:02.240 standards prevent it from actually looking and coming to life as we had 01:12:02.240 --> 01:12:07.800 hopes and I just have to clarify are we talking about block length or I mean 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:11.700 because to talk about road curvature and the designs of roads through a 01:12:11.700 --> 01:12:15.800 development like that it and maybe that illustration probably was just that an 01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:21.000 illustration however they still have to meet the subdivision requirements the 01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:26.780 block length the curvature all of the access requirements so a development 01:12:26.780 --> 01:12:33.440 under for example the r3 maybe let's let's go a little further r6 is believe 01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:40.200 it's 6,000 square feet so I know it's it's it's doable because we have it they 01:12:40.200 --> 01:12:44.800 just have to meet the requirements and I apologize I don't know what said person 01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:50.560 to reference but you can you can do that as part of a cluster development it 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:59.960 should not prevent you from doing it great yes thank you okay okay I think if 01:12:59.960 --> 01:13:05.840 we're done with sub chapter 7 we can move on to sub chapter 8 unless you have 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:16.480 any questions all right last sub chapter and this is it this is all this is this 01:13:16.480 --> 01:13:22.120 is the chance that you're gonna get definitions which is I believe another 01:13:22.120 --> 01:13:28.440 important sub chapter because it holds a lot of what we often look for right 01:13:28.440 --> 01:13:32.200 because well what is what is autocor what is cluster development a lot of 01:13:32.200 --> 01:13:36.480 that is in this sub chapter we want to make sure that this sub chapter is 01:13:36.480 --> 01:13:45.480 reviewed and it's is is there for us to use for example all the list of uses 01:13:45.480 --> 01:13:50.880 that's in sub chapter 5 are all in the definition they have their definition in 01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:58.360 here in the current code there was definitions in several sub chapters and 01:13:58.360 --> 01:14:03.920 you didn't know which one to look at or how where would be the hope is that all 01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:07.680 of it is in one step chapter which it is and so you can just go straight to 01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:13.280 sub chapter 8 to identify or to find that definition and that's that's what 01:14:13.280 --> 01:14:18.520 we've done here so they're listed alphabetically ordered and it's a it's a 01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:23.200 long list but it's an exhaustive list that we hope would help in the 01:14:23.200 --> 01:14:29.120 development review process so you've all looked at the definitions right we're 01:14:29.120 --> 01:14:34.560 all just joking to be honest we look at it too and we find that we're either 01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:38.660 missing one or sometimes it's something that we didn't think about so we are 01:14:38.660 --> 01:14:43.960 continually looking at those definitions to make sure that we have all of them so 01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:48.080 that when we look for it we have it available mr. Beck thanks chair I thought 01:14:48.080 --> 01:14:52.600 did a good job every time I came across the term that I didn't understand I 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:56.560 pretty much found it in definition so I thought you did a good job I think I 01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:01.880 sent you a note though where you had and I can't I'll get back to you on it but 01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:08.120 it was a definition that was an indefinition so I'll find it okay well 01:15:08.120 --> 01:15:13.400 no any thank you for that and again any input that you all can provide feedback 01:15:13.400 --> 01:15:17.700 we appreciate it because again we want to make sure when we get this to the 01:15:17.700 --> 01:15:26.520 finish line we want it to be as close to final draft as possible that's Ron I do 01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:31.800 have one question that it's not really relevant to so chapter 8 but is that 01:15:31.800 --> 01:15:36.560 the final draft that's electronically available actually leveraged PDFs ability 01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:42.240 to hyperlink so we can click words back to the definition is that is that part 01:15:42.240 --> 01:15:48.960 of the process that Clarion's adding the navigability I think the I think that's 01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:56.960 a possibility I think what we were asked to do was the table of contents I know 01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:00.320 one point to we talked about just hovering over a word where it where you 01:16:00.320 --> 01:16:04.560 wouldn't have to necessarily click click over but it would just pop I think that's 01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:09.680 part of the user-friendly you know theme I think we can do that I know initially 01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:13.280 they had set it up for just the the table content so you can click on it you 01:16:13.280 --> 01:16:17.680 can just go straight to it but as far as individual words that may be a little bit 01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:22.440 too much but we can certainly identify some that we know we should be linking 01:16:22.440 --> 01:16:26.240 to the definition section sure yeah well you think of the use table if you just 01:16:26.240 --> 01:16:30.960 had the very beginning you know connection back to the use I think that's 01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:34.480 a great idea I think even with the definition but also like say for example 01:16:34.480 --> 01:16:38.360 the use specific standards you can click on it you don't have to or however you 01:16:38.360 --> 01:16:47.800 get to it great any questions for sub chapter eight okay last to the last 01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:54.160 slide one and then my questions last slide as far as the development code 01:16:54.160 --> 01:17:03.640 update on March 29th we're going to publish a final adoption draft and that 01:17:03.640 --> 01:17:08.800 is going to include the comments we received today there is the initial 01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:14.120 adoption draft that's online now we are continually updating the draft that's 01:17:14.120 --> 01:17:18.160 going to be updated again on March 29th it's not this Friday but the Friday 01:17:18.160 --> 01:17:24.640 next it's going to be there for the general public in preparation of our 01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:29.520 April 10th our meeting are playing zoning Commission public hearing we're 01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:35.280 set to have a public hearing on this item on April 10th we've already set 01:17:35.280 --> 01:17:42.000 that in stage by publishing and sending out mailings to property owners so we're 01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:46.240 set on April 10th for planning zoning Commission and April 23rd for City 01:17:46.240 --> 01:17:54.480 Council pressure back are you done now I'm done okay I just wanted to throw I 01:17:54.480 --> 01:17:58.040 didn't want to interrupt you you wanted to continue I think we're all aware and 01:17:58.040 --> 01:18:02.680 if I this isn't the appropriate time or forum to ask this and somebody let me 01:18:02.680 --> 01:18:06.720 know this will probably go to you Jerry we're aware of an individual that's 01:18:06.720 --> 01:18:11.040 concerned about how their area was on and want to know if there was an appeal 01:18:11.040 --> 01:18:17.480 process so is that something we can discuss here is there should we put this 01:18:17.480 --> 01:18:25.360 off well that's what the public hearing process is for is for people to you know 01:18:25.360 --> 01:18:29.400 voice their concerns and if they if they have anything that they want to bring up 01:18:29.400 --> 01:18:33.840 the staff they certainly can it beforehand well I guess question is it's 01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:37.300 being asked is there an appeal process for somebody who doesn't like what they 01:18:37.300 --> 01:18:48.040 were zone if they get zoned the they will just have to ask to rezone it so 01:18:48.040 --> 01:18:52.800 it's it I mean it's important to attend to this issue and make sure that your 01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:58.720 property gets correctly zoned and and to let staff know if there's a problem and 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:03.240 attend to public hearings and make sure your voice is known okay it just seems 01:19:03.240 --> 01:19:06.320 like it would be better to get it straightened out now before we finalize 01:19:06.320 --> 01:19:10.680 absolutely yeah that's why I'm saying you know contact staff let the staff know 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:18.480 if if if if anybody sees a problem let the staff know any individual member of 01:19:18.480 --> 01:19:24.880 the public well I mean I'll leave it to Ron and Scott as far as the operational 01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:32.400 process is concerned but you know the the concept is is well I'll put it this 01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:36.000 way from from from the legal department's perspective we don't really 01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:41.040 care what process they use you know the the idea is that I'm sure that they will 01:19:41.040 --> 01:19:45.880 have a process for which they will accept input from the public and 01:19:45.880 --> 01:19:53.320 suggestions that they may be zoned in appropriately okay so if I can just chime 01:19:53.320 --> 01:19:59.640 in a little bit obviously this is a City Council approval of a development code 01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:04.040 or update or code amendment however you want to reference it any zoning map 01:20:04.040 --> 01:20:12.600 update in any decision by City Council my understanding is is final so as Jerry 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:18.920 mentioned any appeal needs to be done before we lock that should be done 01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:23.960 before or rezone the property go through the rezoning and like you said we don't 01:20:23.960 --> 01:20:28.680 want to do that so as Jerry mentioned we want to encourage people to come to the 01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:31.600 public hearing and I believe the gentleman that or the person you're 01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:38.180 referring to has done that has come to us and I've advised and encouraged said 01:20:38.180 --> 01:20:44.560 person to attend the public hearing to voice his opinion and if I if I might 01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:49.520 add that actually and I've heard Ron say to come before PNZ and council to 01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:53.440 express their their their opinion and their views 01:20:53.440 --> 01:20:59.960 Chris Ross thank you chair yeah just to offer my opinion on this and the email 01:20:59.960 --> 01:21:04.080 you're speaking of Commissioner Burke I mean appeal keeps being used except 01:21:04.080 --> 01:21:06.760 nothing's been adopted so you can't really appeal something that's not 01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:10.240 really done so all we have right now is public hearings and that's I mean that 01:21:10.240 --> 01:21:17.880 is the right forum for him to express his concerns certainly staff is open to 01:21:17.880 --> 01:21:21.940 meeting anytime and then all of the public hearings but I mean you can't 01:21:21.940 --> 01:21:26.480 appeal something that's not adopted I think that's a term that's being used 01:21:26.480 --> 01:21:33.640 that's making things confusing okay with as long as that direction gets back to 01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:39.580 that individual that if you want to forward that email along I'll make 01:21:39.580 --> 01:21:49.000 certain that it does okay okay thanks thank you all right that's all I have 01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:55.080 thank you so much for your patience and your review of the code I appreciate all 01:21:55.080 --> 01:21:59.680 the hard work that you've done and the next time you'll see the draft will be 01:21:59.680 --> 01:22:03.400 published again on March 29th and as we prepare for the public hearing we will 01:22:03.400 --> 01:22:08.960 make sure that we give you ample time to have the documents in advance as again 01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:12.600 we get ready for the next phase of this project 01:22:12.600 --> 01:22:16.960 Kishore Ellis thank you chair Ron is there still an opportunity to email 01:22:16.960 --> 01:22:23.480 anything yes ma'am from until what's the date April 23rd okay until till city 01:22:23.480 --> 01:22:31.700 can't nope sorry for I'm sorry I thought you were referring to comments from the 01:22:31.700 --> 01:22:38.920 public for for you all comments from us from you all would be you know before 01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:44.700 April 10th you know so we can get your response and as a citizen you have up 01:22:44.700 --> 01:22:50.840 until City Council as well got it thank you good clarification thank you Ron so 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:57.800 much for your presentation your hard work on this thank you next item for 01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:01.680 business tonight is the clarification of the agenda items the first thing we have 01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:09.520 is minutes is there any questions we were given an update to minutes for the 01:23:09.520 --> 01:23:17.880 February 20th make sure everyone has a copy of that thank you any questions on 01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:23.640 the 20th or 27th meeting minutes great there is some clarification I just want 01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:32.360 to invite Haley is Haley yeah we got an updated plaque can you provide us 01:23:32.360 --> 01:23:35.360 context 01:23:35.360 --> 01:23:46.880 document is for FP 18 18 their residence is at razor ranch the only change from 01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:51.760 the copy you originally received in your backup you may have noticed there were 01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:56.480 some kind of irregular lots HOA lots proposed in the right-of-way originally 01:23:56.480 --> 01:24:00.700 on Beaumont after meeting with the city engineer the the developer determined 01:24:00.700 --> 01:24:04.640 that they can just make those medians within the right-of-way and through a 01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:08.000 maintenance agreement can still landscape those the way they want to so 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:12.840 those HOA lots have been removed from where they were shown here as well as 01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:16.640 from the title block and that's that's the only change at this time great any 01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:26.800 questions on this plot thanks Haley and Julie can you talk about the changes to 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:40.520 your plot this is item 3b so this is a revision a small revision to ropes and 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:47.720 ranch unit 6-1 it actually includes a new note on it and that is note 11 and it 01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:53.800 talks about the easternmost 20 feet of lot 2x shall be dedicated as an easement 01:24:53.800 --> 01:25:00.080 to the city of Denton for public water sewer and storm drainage purposes that's 01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:06.680 for potential future future water lines in that in that area so it's just that 01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:14.520 that one note 11 any questions for Julie on this plot great thanks Julie oh 01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:18.480 Michelle thank you chair well Julie and I had a little conversation about this 01:25:18.480 --> 01:25:22.880 plot on and thank you for your response and yeah I would love yeah maybe some 01:25:22.880 --> 01:25:25.920 better clarity going forward if there's any way to do it I had brought up that on 01:25:25.920 --> 01:25:32.080 here like on all the ropes and properties the note about the lots are 01:25:32.080 --> 01:25:35.960 asterisked that are within a thousand feet and it's on this plot except none of 01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:40.040 them exist so it's a little bit misleading because what I said to her is 01:25:40.040 --> 01:25:44.520 did they accidentally forget to asterisk any because the note clearly reads 01:25:44.520 --> 01:25:50.160 they're marked with an asterisk so they were having conversations with them 01:25:50.160 --> 01:25:54.480 maybe going forward and clarifying some things so staff did make a comment 01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:58.160 regarding that to ropes and ranch because there are none of these lots are 01:25:58.160 --> 01:26:03.120 within a thousand feet of a gas well and so during the review staff made the 01:26:03.120 --> 01:26:06.680 comment that we made a suggestion hey did you want to change that plat note 01:26:06.680 --> 01:26:11.280 just to add some clarity they are hesitant to change that plat note 01:26:11.280 --> 01:26:14.760 because that plat note was really a culmination of working with our legal 01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:19.440 department and their legal department but I talked with them today and and and 01:26:19.440 --> 01:26:23.880 we talked about maybe going forward having two types of plat notes so 01:26:23.880 --> 01:26:26.760 getting our legal departments to get their heads together to maybe have a 01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:31.680 plat note for those areas that are outside of that thousand foot down buffer 01:26:31.680 --> 01:26:36.600 from a gas well so so hopefully soon we'll have a new plat note that will 01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:41.560 address that thank you great and did anyone have any questions for item 3c 01:26:41.560 --> 01:26:49.800 Haley's final plot so any questions on that one perfect so that would lead us 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:55.840 into our two public hearing items the first one is 4a and Romans here to tell 01:26:55.840 --> 01:27:02.640 us about an historic landmark yeah an overview would be great at least with 01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:08.120 the historic Commission historic Landmark Commission had to say about it 01:27:08.120 --> 01:27:16.160 as usual with the landmarks unanimous quite a few slides here but I'll just go 01:27:16.160 --> 01:27:19.920 through them real quick you know I would have a few slides this is a historic 01:27:19.920 --> 01:27:28.120 landmark designation for for a property at 900 Eagan Street and so I just have 01:27:28.120 --> 01:27:33.840 we have a lot of background on it standard residential lot the owner lives 01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:38.520 in it has done some work there and would like to landmark it it's it's northwest 01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:44.000 of here on Eagan Street one of Denton's most well preserved he's a presentation 01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:49.720 yeah there we go and you know so we have a little bit of background about that 01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:54.040 we're gonna provide to you for example that this was a this is the streets were 01:27:54.040 --> 01:27:58.600 originally deeded to the city in 1917 for a dollar so that created gave the 01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:03.740 city the opportunity to panhandle pond or Eagan and Alice Street that the we 01:28:03.740 --> 01:28:06.680 have actually have the mechanics lien on this property we talked about who the 01:28:06.680 --> 01:28:12.200 contractor is who the owners were what they were contracted to build this 01:28:12.200 --> 01:28:16.680 property has a lot of ownership unusual for a local landmark for building of 01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:21.480 this condition usually you see fewer owners right now at about 80 to 90 01:28:21.480 --> 01:28:25.440 years old but 12 owners and we still have a pretty good house this is the 01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:32.400 house which its original brick work and that's changed a little the columns were 01:28:32.400 --> 01:28:36.440 swapped out there was an addition in the back we talked about who lived there 01:28:36.440 --> 01:28:40.600 I'll give you a course more detail on this when we read through it but Mrs. 01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:43.840 Scott was quite phenomenal she was a poet and a songwriter and her music 01:28:43.840 --> 01:28:49.440 played on local radio stations she was on the Texas Council for the promotion of 01:28:49.440 --> 01:28:56.320 poetry and then who was born in the place so what was neat is this man Mr. 01:28:56.320 --> 01:29:02.600 Kirschbaum and his wife they had a child there he himself was important in the 01:29:02.600 --> 01:29:07.040 symphony and he was for a number of years in East Texas and Tyler conducted 01:29:07.040 --> 01:29:10.440 the symphony there but his son which is really what we're talking about Ralph 01:29:10.440 --> 01:29:15.240 was a real phenomena and is till today and so we're going to talk a little bit 01:29:15.240 --> 01:29:19.960 about him being born in that house and so this house was a Scott nursing home 01:29:19.960 --> 01:29:24.960 during the time that the Scotts had it and when we say nursing home it really 01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:29.480 wasn't nursing isn't we think of a place for the elderly to be but nursing in 01:29:29.480 --> 01:29:33.280 terms of birth and nursing and so it really were people it was a house to 01:29:33.280 --> 01:29:35.840 have your kids and so we're going to recommend approval that's kind of the 01:29:35.840 --> 01:29:42.400 background of it if any questions about it or anything you have it's a great 01:29:42.400 --> 01:29:46.160 property and of course this this this goes along with the Denton 2030 plan 01:29:46.160 --> 01:29:51.080 because in the 2030 plan we have that we want to encourage voluntary long mark 01:29:51.080 --> 01:29:54.720 designation and so on a street like Egan which is really a street that could be 01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:59.720 part of a historic district you know this is good to have a local landmark 01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:06.120 within that on that street totally agree any questions for this property 01:30:06.120 --> 01:30:11.000 Christian back not so much this property but that the area that this house is in 01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:18.240 hasn't the Texas Historical Society I guess it is have they certified this 01:30:18.240 --> 01:30:24.360 area I believe that Egan is part of the National Register District that historic 01:30:24.360 --> 01:30:28.440 Denton and Randy hunt have been working on getting designated and yes that's 01:30:28.440 --> 01:30:32.240 coming I think on a very soon they have a quarterly meetings of the State Board 01:30:32.240 --> 01:30:37.040 of Review which makes recommendations to the Park Service the National Park 01:30:37.040 --> 01:30:40.040 Service to create a national National Register District and yes this this 01:30:40.040 --> 01:30:44.680 this is I believe within that district which was created a local we sure it's 01:30:44.680 --> 01:30:52.400 a national designation that has no local impact and people aren't required to to 01:30:52.400 --> 01:30:56.480 have a permit to see a value that doesn't happen this part this house will 01:30:56.480 --> 01:31:00.080 with a local landmark designation but when you create a National Register 01:31:00.080 --> 01:31:06.160 District that does not automatically mean that your local government has 01:31:06.160 --> 01:31:09.000 anything to do with that I mean the people they don't have to report you can 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:11.720 modify or you can demolish a house that's in a National Register District 01:31:11.720 --> 01:31:16.760 without reporting it to anyone unless your local law has something about that 01:31:16.760 --> 01:31:20.920 and some do you know Brownsville Texas where I came from anything on the state 01:31:20.920 --> 01:31:26.800 or the National Register the register Texas landmark or on the National 01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:30.080 Register those properties were automatically protected by the local 01:31:30.080 --> 01:31:33.120 ordinance the local ordinance said if you were to modify those properties then 01:31:33.120 --> 01:31:36.560 you still you need the same certificate of appropriateness that comes from the 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:40.560 Landmark Commission some cities have it and some don't didn't hadn't had one yet 01:31:40.560 --> 01:31:47.280 so that's kind of where we are with that who's your Sanchez so what all what all 01:31:47.280 --> 01:31:53.960 the benefits that they get as far as with his designation well the the 01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:58.280 financial benefit that they get is and they will come back and ask for this the 01:31:58.280 --> 01:32:03.360 if they've spent ten thousand dollars on this property within two years of its 01:32:03.360 --> 01:32:10.160 designation our current code allows them to apply to have half off of their City 01:32:10.160 --> 01:32:18.200 of Denton property taxes for ten years and so if the work is qualified work in 01:32:18.200 --> 01:32:22.920 that the Landmark Commission alone can can say it's qualified but generally 01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:28.100 structural changes of course to the property then yes then they can receive 01:32:28.100 --> 01:32:32.280 that and actually that is not just ten years at the end of ten years if you've 01:32:32.280 --> 01:32:36.080 spent an additional ten thousand dollars in that period you can reapply and 01:32:36.080 --> 01:32:40.560 there's no limit in our code for that so half off and it's not an enormous 01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:44.400 amount of money but my feeling as a preservation officer and I think this is 01:32:44.400 --> 01:32:48.920 the way most people feel about historic districts as they do help to define a 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:56.920 city and they take more to maintain usually so and or in the case of an 01:32:56.920 --> 01:33:00.000 improvement like that where someone's gone in of course they've added square 01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:04.520 footage to this house and a beautiful back porch with accents so that's where 01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:11.440 the benefit comes from that's the only local financial incentive the only other 01:33:11.440 --> 01:33:15.080 incentives that you know you've told a story about that residence that's 01:33:15.080 --> 01:33:21.640 documented and you actually have the added for them giving that financial 01:33:21.640 --> 01:33:27.360 benefit for for the city we we actually then have you know you have your 01:33:27.360 --> 01:33:30.800 Landmark Commission or your preservation officer that sort of watches over that 01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:35.240 property so that it doesn't have inappropriate alterations you know in the 01:33:35.240 --> 01:33:39.200 case of this one if someone came forward later and came into the office and they 01:33:39.200 --> 01:33:45.000 said they wanted to change these columns again for example you know they're 01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:48.480 talking to me normally I'm going to recommend you go back and put that you 01:33:48.480 --> 01:33:54.880 know row of stretcher bond brick columns back in and that and that pedestal the 01:33:54.880 --> 01:33:57.720 other alteration you can see in this image is the front door there used to be 01:33:57.720 --> 01:34:02.240 two front doors here which was common on those residents at that time there they 01:34:02.240 --> 01:34:05.480 could rent out a room in the back or the front and you'd have your an out 01:34:05.480 --> 01:34:12.480 exterior access so it's really about community it's really saying I'm proud 01:34:12.480 --> 01:34:15.640 of this place I'm proud of this home I'm proud I'm taking care of it and the 01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:22.280 people in the past and the only benefit right now would be the the tax interior 01:34:22.280 --> 01:34:30.800 they can do any kind of remodeling say inside like yes it is exterior is that 01:34:30.800 --> 01:34:34.880 what's your problem yes it doesn't trigger a certificate of appropriateness 01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:41.120 requirement unless it's exterior okay changes and then under the code that 01:34:41.120 --> 01:34:44.640 you're reviewing and putting through we're making it very clear that if if 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:50.240 the changes are not visible from the street as determined by the preservation 01:34:50.240 --> 01:34:53.200 officer who it's ever acting as a preservation officer the director of 01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:57.440 planning also I think it can tie it to them too if it's not visible from the 01:34:57.440 --> 01:35:01.440 street by staff then it doesn't get also doesn't require a certificate of 01:35:01.440 --> 01:35:05.240 appropriateness you see I'm say so if you're making an addition in the back 01:35:05.240 --> 01:35:10.040 and it's not really visible then it wouldn't come before the Commission and 01:35:10.040 --> 01:35:16.880 then all your regular maintenance can be approved by staff it's just if you're 01:35:16.880 --> 01:35:20.160 you know if you're seeing a significant alteration typically you're gonna see 01:35:20.160 --> 01:35:25.480 window replacement and windows are really sacred in historic preservation I 01:35:25.480 --> 01:35:30.960 mean the economic studies that have been done on the economics of them and and 01:35:30.960 --> 01:35:34.760 what have you indicate that it's always best to preserve them and that the the 01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:38.480 energy savings really aren't aren't there financially how people think they 01:35:38.480 --> 01:35:41.880 are that's okay but when you're looking at these buildings that's generally you 01:35:41.880 --> 01:35:44.680 want to keep that front facade especially the front facade looking 01:35:44.680 --> 01:35:50.800 original so yeah that's when you're gonna see so Lamar Commission is only 01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:55.800 typically gonna see a pretty substantial alteration or demolition removal of the 01:35:55.800 --> 01:36:02.800 property altogether how hard would it be to get it off that you can position in 01:36:02.800 --> 01:36:08.320 the exact reverse according to ordinance you can petition in the exact reverse to 01:36:08.320 --> 01:36:14.520 to remove a property and I need to look at that language a little closer but 01:36:14.520 --> 01:36:19.960 it's been in there all along that you could remove the designation you can 01:36:19.960 --> 01:36:27.200 also you know if say someone has a landmark let's you know pick a more 01:36:27.200 --> 01:36:31.760 public buildings that might be landmark for example the old post office that's 01:36:31.760 --> 01:36:39.120 being used as a warehouse right now is a local landmark right so if it changed 01:36:39.120 --> 01:36:44.080 hands for example and someone wanted to demolish it that would probably get 01:36:44.080 --> 01:36:47.760 denied at the Landmark Commission but then it could be appealed to City 01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:53.760 Council and in that case it's possible City Council could allow for the 01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:58.320 demolition or not so you don't have to remove it per se I'll give you another 01:36:58.320 --> 01:37:03.800 example on the square on the southwest corner of the square where this 01:37:03.800 --> 01:37:07.400 building that says Sherman at the top that Hendry's building is a local 01:37:07.400 --> 01:37:11.320 landmark but it was I presume it must have been a local landmark have to look 01:37:11.320 --> 01:37:15.700 back at the history in the building that was there that burned down so the site 01:37:15.700 --> 01:37:20.800 is what we designate by the ordinance so the building that's there actually had 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:25.120 to go before Landmark Commission so you have a really good building there but 01:37:25.120 --> 01:37:29.320 it's also good because he had a good architect Jim Jim Kirk Patrick I believe 01:37:29.320 --> 01:37:33.320 was the architect and took it very he actually helped to draft the first 01:37:33.320 --> 01:37:38.080 downtown design guidelines that we still have so he was very passionate about 01:37:38.080 --> 01:37:42.960 making sure a very good building was put in that place 01:38:03.960 --> 01:38:12.480 thank you chair members of the Commission this is a item project that 01:38:12.480 --> 01:38:17.920 you all have seen it was brought forward to you all in November I believe of 01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:24.960 last year where the applicant was requesting a rezoning in an SUP and the 01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:31.480 purpose for the rezoning was to increase their density and of course what we what 01:38:31.480 --> 01:38:36.140 they heard from the Commission and from the citizen at that public hearing was 01:38:36.140 --> 01:38:44.320 that anything over 12 units per acre was low high so what they've done is they've 01:38:44.320 --> 01:38:51.120 redesigned their site and have it underneath under 12 units per acre it's 01:38:51.120 --> 01:38:57.080 actually at 12 units per acre sorry I kind of told Roman to do it I'm not 01:38:57.080 --> 01:39:02.320 doing it so the site as you all are already familiar with is on Mockingbird 01:39:02.320 --> 01:39:08.360 just west of Mockingbird Mockingbird south of Mingo as shown there they are 01:39:08.360 --> 01:39:16.760 now proposing 118 where it was over 200 plus I think was 276 in their first 01:39:16.760 --> 01:39:21.360 draft again the site hasn't changed it's just that the number of dwelling units 01:39:21.360 --> 01:39:32.040 has dropped to 12 units per acre it is in the future land-use map as moderate 01:39:32.040 --> 01:39:38.760 residential the description of moderate residential is between 4 and 12 it's 01:39:38.760 --> 01:39:44.480 technically or designated for small housing detach it also includes a low 01:39:44.480 --> 01:39:48.760 rise in multifamily dwellings in town homes it's main it's to maintain the 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:54.320 existing area act as a transition for other zoning districts and so you can 01:39:54.320 --> 01:40:01.320 see that the the community mix use and then the moderate is in between the low 01:40:01.320 --> 01:40:08.240 density residential so that's the future land-use map the zoning again is not 01:40:08.240 --> 01:40:12.720 being considered because they do not need that rezoning they are currently 01:40:12.720 --> 01:40:19.720 zone NRU me 12 but to allow for a multi-family use they need a specific use 01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:25.960 permit and that is what's being considered tonight the of the 01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:31.240 Michelle's thank you chair yes so on that note run I noticed you had a 01:40:31.240 --> 01:40:34.880 proposed zoning map in there that's just from an old presentation on this I 01:40:34.880 --> 01:40:39.840 apologize yes that's okay yeah that's not right we're not considering that at 01:40:39.840 --> 01:40:48.760 all okay thank you so again the NRU me 12 has a requirement that it obtain a 01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:53.440 specific use permit if you're proposing a multifamily dwelling unit it also has 01:40:53.440 --> 01:40:58.920 the L4 but the L4 basically also says specific use permit so essentially they 01:40:58.920 --> 01:41:07.120 achieve both by obtaining a specific use permit criteria for approval under the 01:41:07.120 --> 01:41:15.640 then development code is covered under sub chapter 6 3564 to be exact does the 01:41:15.640 --> 01:41:20.520 proposed use conform with all the standards is it compatible and does it 01:41:20.520 --> 01:41:28.680 have any adverse impact and through staff's analysis the criteria for 01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:33.200 approval is is met and and as you already probably have seen staff is 01:41:33.200 --> 01:41:40.120 recommending approval the site is shown here in red with major arterials mingo 01:41:40.120 --> 01:41:47.560 University Arden loop shown here there are several subdivisions in the area the 01:41:47.560 --> 01:41:54.080 Oak Ridge estates and of course the Bell Air North addition to the south had some 01:41:54.080 --> 01:41:59.320 some folks come out of course in opposition due to the high density that 01:41:59.320 --> 01:42:04.560 was being proposed since the public hearing I'm sorry the public meeting 01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:09.840 that they held in January 31st there were some residents from those 01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:14.280 subdivisions and they were pleased to see that they had revised their site 01:42:14.280 --> 01:42:20.800 plan to reflect more of the 12 units per acre just way of background or 01:42:20.800 --> 01:42:25.440 information there is another multifamily not too far from here it is called the 01:42:25.440 --> 01:42:35.560 woodlands of Denton shown here to the west that is approximately 16 or 15.9 01:42:35.560 --> 01:42:40.040 dwelling units per acre and they're gonna be well below that or below that 01:42:40.040 --> 01:42:49.280 at 12 the mobility this was a topic of discussion by the public when they first 01:42:49.280 --> 01:42:56.040 were here as far as traffic and so right now the classifications for Mockingbird 01:42:56.040 --> 01:43:01.340 is a collector old north is also a collector which is just north of the 01:43:01.340 --> 01:43:08.320 site and mingo is a secondary arterial and as you all know they're not built to 01:43:08.320 --> 01:43:13.680 the standards or their their cross sections that are shown as of that 01:43:13.680 --> 01:43:20.920 classification so that is a future widening project in the future and as of 01:43:20.920 --> 01:43:25.800 today staff does not have any date of when those will be widened but we know 01:43:25.800 --> 01:43:32.960 that they have to it's just that we don't have a timeline at this point the 01:43:32.960 --> 01:43:36.120 staff analysis is in the backup I'm not going to go through it essentially they 01:43:36.120 --> 01:43:41.240 meet the the future lane use we looked at the compatibility of the area they 01:43:41.240 --> 01:43:46.360 are meeting the buffer the screening requirements they did do a TIA and they 01:43:46.360 --> 01:43:50.200 are complying with the requirements or the measurements that are recommended 01:43:50.200 --> 01:43:56.400 as part of TIA staff has looked at the orientation materials parking landscaping 01:43:56.400 --> 01:44:01.720 and ESA requirements as part of the analysis as of this afternoon and I have 01:44:01.720 --> 01:44:08.880 placed two notices or response to those notices on your on your desk there there 01:44:08.880 --> 01:44:16.640 was an opposition by the property to the West that said person has formally 01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:24.280 requested that his response be in favor rather than opposition which changes the 01:44:24.280 --> 01:44:30.440 percentage so currently there are five property owners within 200 foot that are 01:44:30.440 --> 01:44:35.480 in opposition that equates to or calculates to approximately eight point 01:44:35.480 --> 01:44:41.840 four seven percent and again shown on this exhibit are the red identifying 01:44:41.840 --> 01:44:48.160 those that are in opposition and then the person that is in favor is shown 01:44:48.160 --> 01:44:55.800 here in green I want to point out that the property owner did have two 01:44:55.800 --> 01:45:02.120 neighborhood meetings one again prior to the first public hearing back on October 01:45:02.120 --> 01:45:07.800 31st there was one person that attended who was generally in favor really not 01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:11.480 any opposition they came here and planning zoning Commission it was a 01:45:11.480 --> 01:45:17.400 different story they held a second neighborhood meeting following that in 01:45:17.400 --> 01:45:22.240 January this year January 31st they had more people there about 12 people and 01:45:22.240 --> 01:45:26.800 again they were pleased to see that the density had dropped from whatever it was 01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:34.880 to 12 units per acre staff make is making a recommendation for approval 01:45:34.880 --> 01:45:40.080 with the following condition and we have this condition as part of a specific use 01:45:40.080 --> 01:45:45.720 permit that the attached site plan and landscape plan reflects the intent to 01:45:45.720 --> 01:45:50.040 comply with the DC requirements with regards to parking street trees 01:45:50.040 --> 01:45:54.840 landscaping and buffers although if there are any minor modification through 01:45:54.840 --> 01:46:00.840 the final building process they are able to but again the intent is to meet what 01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:06.600 is provided to you in your backup and that concludes my presentation I'll be 01:46:06.600 --> 01:46:10.680 happy to answer any questions for sure else thank you chair Ron I had a 01:46:10.680 --> 01:46:16.240 question on the buffer to Bel Air is that is it just a landscape buffer that's 01:46:16.240 --> 01:46:20.400 there is that all that's there there's actually a drainage channel on the 01:46:20.400 --> 01:46:24.200 south side and so you have you have the drainage channel which is hard to see 01:46:24.200 --> 01:46:31.160 and then above that is going to be a buffer as well of landscaping yes and I 01:46:31.160 --> 01:46:45.200 believe it is a 15-foot buffer type C buffer any other questions thanks all 01:46:45.200 --> 01:46:51.760 right thank you that concludes the work session for planning and zoning we will 01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:57.360 convene for our meeting at 630 and council chambers thank you well I'll 01:46:57.360 --> 01:47:01.600 close this meeting at 551 01:47:01.600 --> 01:47:10.040 good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the planning and zoning 01:47:10.040 --> 01:47:16.800 Commission session for March 20th 2019 I will call this meeting to order at 637 01:47:16.800 --> 01:47:21.040 the first item for business is a pledge of allegiance so if you're able please 01:47:21.040 --> 01:47:25.800 stand and provide US flag and Texas flag pledge of allegiance 01:47:49.920 --> 01:47:54.680 the next item of business is to consider approval of the minutes because of 01:47:54.680 --> 01:47:58.040 attendance we're going to take these in two different votes so the chair will 01:47:58.040 --> 01:48:03.160 first entertain a discussion or motion for the minutes for February 20th 2019 01:48:03.160 --> 01:48:08.560 Commissioner Beck I move to approve the minutes for mark February 20th we have a 01:48:08.560 --> 01:48:13.760 first for approval Commissioner Ellis second we have a second we have first 01:48:13.760 --> 01:48:18.360 and a second for approval of the minutes any discussion seeing none I call for a 01:48:18.360 --> 01:48:31.060 vote on the board motion carries 6-0 the chair will now entertain a motion or 01:48:31.060 --> 01:48:38.080 discussion for the February 27th meeting minutes Commissioner Ellis I move we 01:48:38.080 --> 01:48:42.440 have a first for approval Commissioner pernetta a second motion to approve we 01:48:42.440 --> 01:48:46.440 have a second we have a first and a second for approval of the February 27th 01:48:46.440 --> 01:48:59.000 meeting minutes see no discussion I'll call for a vote on the board motion 01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:04.560 carries five zero with one recuse the next item of business is the consent 01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:10.680 agenda and chair will listen to any discussion or motion for the consent 01:49:10.680 --> 01:49:14.680 Commissioner Ellis I move approval of the consent agenda we have a first for 01:49:14.680 --> 01:49:18.720 approval Commissioner Beck second we have a first and a second for approval 01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:23.600 of the consent agenda any discussion seeing none I'll call for a vote on the 01:49:23.600 --> 01:49:36.600 board motion carries 6-0 that moves us to the public hearing the first item for 01:49:36.600 --> 01:49:44.440 hearing is item 4a HL 19 - 0 0 0 1 a I'll open the public hearing and ask Roman 01:49:44.440 --> 01:49:50.400 for presentation thank you chair my name is Roman McAllen I'm the historic 01:49:50.400 --> 01:49:54.180 preservation officer for the city of Denton tonight we have a request for 01:49:54.180 --> 01:49:58.640 historic landmark designation and we're asking you to make a recommendation to 01:49:58.640 --> 01:50:01.840 consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding an application for 01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:06.680 historic landmark designation for the property located at 900 Egan Street this 01:50:06.680 --> 01:50:11.680 is a standard residential lot of 9800 square feet zoning is nr3 this is 01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:15.560 presently use present use as a single-family residence just a little bit 01:50:15.560 --> 01:50:19.440 of orientation from where we're sitting today out to the northwest north 01:50:19.440 --> 01:50:26.760 northwest is the Egan Street and this neighborhood in 1917 can we take it we 01:50:26.760 --> 01:50:32.040 can take us back take you back about that far in 1917 the land was conveyed 01:50:32.040 --> 01:50:37.520 to the city of Denton for a dollar and it was in order to construct the streets 01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:43.480 so the streets that were laid out then were Panhandle Egan Ponder and Alice 01:50:43.480 --> 01:50:49.040 Street and here you see the lot that is the lot in question tonight and this was 01:50:49.040 --> 01:50:54.760 platted in 1923 we have a mechanics lien on this property so we know it was 01:50:54.760 --> 01:51:02.840 constructed for $3,750 in between July 14th of 1924 in August so in the short 01:51:02.840 --> 01:51:08.000 two or three months in the hottest time of the year for $3,750 someone 01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:12.240 constructed a house and the agreement was to construct a one-frame dwelling 01:51:12.240 --> 01:51:18.440 house of six rooms one bath one hall two porches the solid it says a solid brick 01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:21.840 foundation and I assume that solid brick piers because it's a pier and beam home 01:51:21.840 --> 01:51:27.200 and also a convass which is a term that I researched as much as I could and if 01:51:27.200 --> 01:51:30.960 you know what the definition of a convass is I'd appreciate it I think it 01:51:30.960 --> 01:51:35.320 has something to do with resting or a porch it also had included paper and 01:51:35.320 --> 01:51:40.240 paint and plumbing and wire and all the fixtures and so that work was completed 01:51:40.240 --> 01:51:48.480 by LG McCormick for CEO Hussie now CEO Hussie took ownership briefly in 1924 01:51:48.480 --> 01:51:56.120 from C and Bertie Lipscomb they appeared to have deed at the house to him to to 01:51:56.120 --> 01:52:00.800 contract with the contractor and in their agreement when in the deed it 01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:06.800 actually said that he would construct a modern dwelling house of standard 01:52:06.800 --> 01:52:14.200 construction equal to or better than a five-bedroom bungalow so then you have 01:52:14.200 --> 01:52:17.720 this progression of ownership and there are total 12 owners listed here which is 01:52:17.720 --> 01:52:22.960 something rare for a home that is in this condition which is a good condition 01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:29.600 and 12 owners over those years you do know that in 19 in 1940 I believe it was 01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:33.720 that there was an remodel an extensive remodel which is that blue block in the 01:52:33.720 --> 01:52:38.000 middle for six hundred and ninety dollars where there was some upgrades to 01:52:38.000 --> 01:52:41.680 the property the present owner has been there for ten years that's William Bo 01:52:41.680 --> 01:52:45.680 Hughes and Kimberly Beth Hughes and they've been there ten years and made 01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:50.760 some improvements this is the home and our historic resource survey you see 01:52:50.760 --> 01:52:54.280 that stripe there that it was a considered a contributing home to any 01:52:54.280 --> 01:53:00.600 potential historic district and of a medium priority and they said they were 01:53:00.600 --> 01:53:05.840 pretty close at 1925 for the construction date and this image is from 01:53:05.840 --> 01:53:14.440 the Denton County tax records this is the home as it looks today some diagonal 01:53:14.440 --> 01:53:20.000 images as well as the rear elevation on your right where some additional square 01:53:20.000 --> 01:53:24.520 footage was added to the house as well as a porch which are appropriate for 01:53:24.520 --> 01:53:33.400 these for the style of the home the the home hasn't still retains a lot of its 01:53:33.400 --> 01:53:37.760 original condition including now what only that's really changed from the 01:53:37.760 --> 01:53:41.200 front is the front door there were two front doors as a lot of homes had at 01:53:41.200 --> 01:53:45.280 this period in time when people would rent a front room or a back room and 01:53:45.280 --> 01:53:51.320 often they person would have their own exterior access the front the columns 01:53:51.320 --> 01:53:58.200 which were interesting there these full columns which are a row brick pattern 01:53:58.200 --> 01:54:03.200 there standard I wrote the term there this is a let me get my stretcher bond 01:54:03.200 --> 01:54:06.680 brick pattern on these on these columns there were three columns and then there 01:54:06.680 --> 01:54:11.720 was a shorter decorative column the original lap double novelty siding is 01:54:11.720 --> 01:54:16.000 still there the wooden double hung windows and especially important in 01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:21.560 Denton these very stylized roof rafter tails which we see throughout the inner 01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:25.920 part of Denton and some cities you don't see him so often but in some in Denton 01:54:25.920 --> 01:54:31.960 are very well articulated now the home is not just important for having that 01:54:31.960 --> 01:54:36.200 architectural integrity but it's also about who owned the home and who was 01:54:36.200 --> 01:54:42.480 born in the home and so here we have mrs. Scott and mrs. Scott her name was 01:54:42.480 --> 01:54:47.880 mrs. Vesta Scott and her husband lived in the house and she was had a prolific 01:54:47.880 --> 01:54:52.480 career in Denton she was a songwriter and many of her songs were played on 01:54:52.480 --> 01:54:57.320 radio stations in Fort Worth and Dallas she wrote a song called April is Spring 01:54:57.320 --> 01:55:02.360 and it was a lovely according to the Denton record Chronicle a lovely 01:55:02.360 --> 01:55:07.280 reminiscing melody about Texas State College for Women's red buttoned lane 01:55:07.280 --> 01:55:11.680 but that was what she did part-time what she did full-time was operate the Scott 01:55:11.680 --> 01:55:17.280 nursing home and don't want to leave out that she was also on the Texas Council 01:55:17.280 --> 01:55:22.360 for the promotion of poetry and was represent was on one program in the 01:55:22.360 --> 01:55:26.320 poetry hour now what she did otherwise was operate the Scott nursing home and 01:55:26.320 --> 01:55:30.480 while nursing home here I think we have really a birthing center and so there 01:55:30.480 --> 01:55:35.360 are many records of people who were born in this home including here as we see in 01:55:35.360 --> 01:55:40.200 the blue a boy was born to mr. and mrs. Joseph Kershbaum who lived at 220 Frye 01:55:40.200 --> 01:55:48.880 and that he was a professor at UNT he was a very important professor he was a 01:55:48.880 --> 01:55:53.960 Yale graduate and he directed the Oberlin Conservatory string orchestra he 01:55:53.960 --> 01:55:59.320 did a lot of impressive work including that he served for a time for a quite a 01:55:59.320 --> 01:56:04.120 long number of years with the East Texas symphony East Texas Symphony in Tyler 01:56:04.120 --> 01:56:10.920 Texas but that son that was born to him is is really quite impressive Ralph 01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:17.320 Kershbaum who we saw in that story was born he went on to become a really lauded 01:56:17.320 --> 01:56:22.240 cello player and include he had appearances with the symphony orchestras 01:56:22.240 --> 01:56:29.080 of Boston Chicago San Francisco in London he served on the faculty of the 01:56:29.080 --> 01:56:35.540 Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester for 38 years and in 2008 he 01:56:35.540 --> 01:56:39.880 accepted a chair at the University of Southern California's Thornton School of 01:56:39.880 --> 01:56:45.680 Music and I don't imagine his parents paid anything extra for him to to work 01:56:45.680 --> 01:56:50.160 or to attend there and to be that position he received an honorary 01:56:50.160 --> 01:56:55.280 doctorate of music from the Royal Conservatory of Scotland in Glasgow and 01:56:55.280 --> 01:57:00.920 he served a five-year term on the United States Presidents Committee on the Arts 01:57:00.920 --> 01:57:04.800 and Humanities so I mean this home is just so representative of Denton in our 01:57:04.800 --> 01:57:08.480 history and our tie to music and the arts and it should be no surprise that 01:57:08.480 --> 01:57:12.320 if we just dig a little at each in any house and you look around we find these 01:57:12.320 --> 01:57:17.320 neat stories he also played in the Symphony Sydney Orchestra in Sydney 01:57:17.320 --> 01:57:22.520 Australia and you note this in yellow here from the Los Angeles Times it says 01:57:22.520 --> 01:57:29.640 Ralph Kershbaum on cello the highest echelon of today's cellist so cellist so 01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:37.680 he was really quite phenomenal and so basically we were now at the criteria 01:57:37.680 --> 01:57:41.400 for designated property in the city of Denton and we have this criteria there 01:57:41.400 --> 01:57:45.520 it meets quite a few of the criteria but I listed three here that the property 01:57:45.520 --> 01:57:50.120 has character or interest or value as part of a development heritage or the 01:57:50.120 --> 01:57:55.040 cultural characteristics of our city in this home this case the home retains 01:57:55.040 --> 01:57:59.560 those qualities that I've told you about and it was the location for number 11 01:57:59.560 --> 01:58:02.880 identification with a person who significantly contributed to the culture 01:58:02.880 --> 01:58:06.800 and development of the city the state or the United States and the filing number 01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:09.600 three a building or structure that because of its location has become a 01:58:09.600 --> 01:58:12.800 value to the neighborhood Egan Street it's one of the most intact historical 01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:17.880 streets in Denton it's really phenomenal and so landmarking a property there 01:58:17.880 --> 01:58:25.160 certainly meets the Denton plan 2030 goal of encouraging voluntary landmark 01:58:25.160 --> 01:58:29.440 designation as a vehicle to protect sites with historical significance 01:58:29.440 --> 01:58:33.980 notices were sent out in the two hundred and five hundred four five hundred square 01:58:33.980 --> 01:58:39.240 foot radius not square foot foot radius and we had one print response that was 01:58:39.240 --> 01:58:44.040 favorable and one phone call to my office and the owner has also had a 01:58:44.040 --> 01:58:47.540 posting in front of his home there the sign has been there for the required 01:58:47.540 --> 01:58:54.480 time and I'll take any questions thank you for the presentation the screen is 01:58:54.480 --> 01:58:58.340 loading here I do not see any questions for you thank you thank you this is a 01:58:58.340 --> 01:59:01.600 public hearing anyone wishing to speak on this item may certainly do so if you 01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:07.760 would like is there anyone here wishing to speak on this seeing none I will 01:59:07.760 --> 01:59:13.200 close the public hearing and turn it to discussion in a motion 01:59:14.840 --> 01:59:18.620 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair Roman thanks for a great presentation as 01:59:18.620 --> 01:59:23.240 always I move approval we have a first for approval Commissioner pernetta I 01:59:23.240 --> 01:59:28.100 second that motion we have a first and a second for approval of recommending to 01:59:28.100 --> 01:59:31.920 counsel the this application for the historically marked designation any 01:59:31.920 --> 01:59:37.880 discussion seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board the only thing I wanted 01:59:37.880 --> 01:59:42.020 to say is I know this family personally I'm super excited and proud that they 01:59:42.020 --> 01:59:45.320 went through the work to get here and so congratulations to the Hughes family for 01:59:45.320 --> 01:59:49.280 earning this designation hopefully council will do a unanimous vote on this 01:59:49.280 --> 01:59:52.800 item with that we'll vote on the board 01:59:52.800 --> 02:00:04.600 motion carries six zero that moves us to our next and final public hearing item 02:00:04.600 --> 02:00:10.600 for BS 18 - 0 0 0 5 D I will open the public hearing and invite Ron for 02:00:10.600 --> 02:00:13.120 presentation 02:00:13.120 --> 02:00:20.680 thank you chair members of Commission members of staff this item is s 18 5 02:00:20.680 --> 02:00:28.240 mockingbird multifamily and this is a should be a familiar project y'all had 02:00:28.240 --> 02:00:33.760 seen this back in November of last year it is for a specific use permit 02:00:33.760 --> 02:00:39.680 initially back in November the applicant requested a zoning change as well as a 02:00:39.680 --> 02:00:45.040 specific use permit during that public hearing there was some comments received 02:00:45.040 --> 02:00:50.720 by the applicant regarding the density of the proposed development being over 02:00:50.720 --> 02:00:57.160 12 units per acre the applicant has since amended their site plan and their 02:00:57.160 --> 02:01:03.800 proposal to be below the 12 at I'm sorry at 12 units per acre therefore the 02:01:03.800 --> 02:01:08.720 rezoning request has been withdrawn and tonight we are just considering the 02:01:08.720 --> 02:01:13.600 specific use permit the specific use permit is again to allow for the 02:01:13.600 --> 02:01:19.720 multifamily dwelling use the applicant is proposing 118 dwelling units on 9.91 02:01:19.720 --> 02:01:25.160 acres and as you can see here located on the west side of mockingbird Lane and 02:01:25.160 --> 02:01:33.640 just south of mingo for the land use element the area in subject area that is 02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:40.840 is designated as moderate residential designated for roughly 12 to sorry 4 to 02:01:40.840 --> 02:01:45.880 12 dwelling units per acre looking at low-rise multifamily single-family 02:01:45.880 --> 02:01:51.120 detached housing maintaining the scale of the area but also providing that 02:01:51.120 --> 02:01:55.880 transitional zoning that you see from a higher intense zoning to the lower 02:01:55.880 --> 02:02:06.440 intense zoning that's shown in on this slide the zoning is NRM you 12 that is 02:02:06.440 --> 02:02:11.760 the zoning and they are not changing that the zoning does allow for 02:02:11.760 --> 02:02:17.240 multifamily however it requires a specific use permit and also to meet the 02:02:17.240 --> 02:02:22.720 limitation 14 I'm sorry limitation 4 which essentially is a requirement for a 02:02:22.720 --> 02:02:26.280 specific use permit or part of a mixed-use development they're not doing 02:02:26.280 --> 02:02:29.800 mixed-use they're just doing apartments so they're going to take care of both 02:02:29.800 --> 02:02:34.120 requirements through the specific use permit it allows for 12 units per acre 02:02:34.120 --> 02:02:39.280 where they are maximum lock coverage of 60 and maximum height of 40 and the 02:02:39.280 --> 02:02:45.120 applicant or the proposed site plan meets those requirements for criteria for 02:02:45.120 --> 02:02:50.000 approval it is located in sub chapter 6 of the den development code 02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:56.680 specifically 3564 looking at how it is headed how it conforms with the 02:02:56.680 --> 02:03:02.280 standards as well as compatibility and that it not be an adverse impact to the 02:03:02.280 --> 02:03:08.240 surrounding area for compatibility analysis as part of your backup we did 02:03:08.240 --> 02:03:13.920 look at the area the area here shown in red is the subject property the major 02:03:13.920 --> 02:03:20.640 arterials or streets are shown here University mingo Audra and the loop there 02:03:20.640 --> 02:03:25.740 are existing developments within the area for context you have Oak Ridge to 02:03:25.740 --> 02:03:31.880 the southeast Bel Air north directly to the south shallow field of fields to the 02:03:31.880 --> 02:03:36.120 West and then you have other developments I want to make I want to 02:03:36.120 --> 02:03:41.800 make note of woodlands of Denton which is the closest multifamily development to 02:03:41.800 --> 02:03:48.640 the subject site is located to the west of the project subject project this is 02:03:48.640 --> 02:03:55.520 some information on the woodlands of Denton it is approximately 15.9 dwelling 02:03:55.520 --> 02:04:00.920 units per acre and again the proposal for this subject property is 12 units per 02:04:00.920 --> 02:04:09.440 acre so less than what is shown or at woodlands of Denton as far as mobility I 02:04:09.440 --> 02:04:13.840 know that at our last public hearing there were a lot of questions and 02:04:13.840 --> 02:04:22.480 comments related to traffic and in other items the mobility plan shows mingo as a 02:04:22.480 --> 02:04:29.600 secondary arterial mockingbird is a collector shown here in this dotted line 02:04:29.600 --> 02:04:36.800 and Audra is also shown as a collector road I will tell you that all three or 02:04:36.800 --> 02:04:43.200 all of the surrounding streets are not built to the street classification that 02:04:43.200 --> 02:04:49.920 is part of our mobility plan staff again as part of the analysis looks at a 02:04:49.920 --> 02:04:53.600 number of different factors we looked at the future land use element again it is 02:04:53.600 --> 02:05:00.720 designated as small moderate residential compatibility the adequate capacity of 02:05:00.720 --> 02:05:04.640 infrastructure those have been reviewed by development review committee and they 02:05:04.640 --> 02:05:11.240 are there are adequate capacity in that area there was a traffic impact analysis 02:05:11.240 --> 02:05:16.880 that was conducted as part of this specific use permit the mitigations that 02:05:16.880 --> 02:05:21.920 were identified help address some of the traffic issues that potentially could be 02:05:21.920 --> 02:05:27.400 generated by this development the applicant has applied those mitigation 02:05:27.400 --> 02:05:31.960 measures as part of development in their site plan they're installing a right 02:05:31.960 --> 02:05:36.460 turn lane as you head south so that allows people to get into the 02:05:36.460 --> 02:05:41.560 development quicker and not have a backup on mingo vice versa heading 02:05:41.560 --> 02:05:47.480 north there are two entrances to the site again to allow for more ability to 02:05:47.480 --> 02:05:52.440 get in and not be trapped I have traffic along mockingbird we also looked at 02:05:52.440 --> 02:05:57.560 building materials parking landscaping screening and ESA requirements the 02:05:57.560 --> 02:06:01.360 applicant will be required to meet all of those requirements they are also 02:06:01.360 --> 02:06:08.600 meeting the buffer and screening requirements in the form of a type C on 02:06:08.600 --> 02:06:13.600 the south a type B to the west again those are all part of the DEN 02:06:13.600 --> 02:06:20.200 development code requirements as of this afternoon we have received 02:06:20.200 --> 02:06:27.120 approximately eight responses five in opposition and you can see those that 02:06:27.120 --> 02:06:31.840 are represented in the red are those that are in opposition and that calculates 02:06:31.840 --> 02:06:38.040 to eight point four seven percent and then the one and the three that are in 02:06:38.040 --> 02:06:43.360 favor the one is shown here in green and there are two others that are not shown 02:06:43.360 --> 02:06:52.200 here but they're in the 200 foot area that it calculates to 14% during the 02:06:52.200 --> 02:06:57.560 initial stage the applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting it was held on 02:06:57.560 --> 02:07:03.040 October 31st and one person attended that meeting and that person generally 02:07:03.040 --> 02:07:09.400 was in favor however soon after that the public hearing at the public hearing 02:07:09.400 --> 02:07:13.320 with planning zoning Commission the Commission heard from several property 02:07:13.320 --> 02:07:19.200 owners or neighbors and they were in opposition hearing those comments in 02:07:19.200 --> 02:07:27.320 those concerns the applicant was asked to go back and talk to the neighbors and 02:07:27.320 --> 02:07:32.920 they have they before they did however they refined and updated their site plan 02:07:32.920 --> 02:07:37.920 to lower the density because that was really the major discussion during the 02:07:37.920 --> 02:07:44.400 public hearing and on January 31st they held another neighborhood meeting and at 02:07:44.400 --> 02:07:48.280 that meeting there were 12 approximately 12 members of the community that 02:07:48.280 --> 02:07:53.520 attended the applicant shared with them their revised site plan and generally 02:07:53.520 --> 02:07:57.600 the attendance or attendees were pleasant to hear that the density has now 02:07:57.600 --> 02:08:05.360 been lowered to 12 units per acre than what was previously proposed with that 02:08:05.360 --> 02:08:09.920 staff is recommending approval of the specific use permit with the condition 02:08:09.920 --> 02:08:16.440 that the site plan and landscape plan reflected reflects the intent to comply 02:08:16.440 --> 02:08:23.480 with the DC requirements and any minor modification or alteration can be 02:08:23.480 --> 02:08:28.280 approved by staff as long as they meet the intent and again they have shown and 02:08:28.280 --> 02:08:34.640 have told us that they're going to meet all of that and so the site plan and the 02:08:34.640 --> 02:08:42.000 landscape plan documents all of what they've agreed to do with that I will 02:08:42.000 --> 02:08:47.200 stand for questions the applicant is present and I am ready for any questions 02:08:47.200 --> 02:08:55.460 we do have one question mr. Beck thank you chair thanks Ron in your 02:08:55.460 --> 02:09:00.360 recommendation are you indicating that this site plan is pretty much the way 02:09:00.360 --> 02:09:04.960 it's going to be with possibly some minor changes right and that anything 02:09:04.960 --> 02:09:11.840 beyond minor changes would be kind of they would have to bring this back okay 02:09:11.840 --> 02:09:17.760 okay so the site plan is the this is pretty much it okay I'm gonna be as far 02:09:17.760 --> 02:09:22.040 as location of buildings and everything like that right okay the other thing I 02:09:22.040 --> 02:09:27.600 wanted to discuss on the south side where you've got that open drainage you 02:09:27.600 --> 02:09:32.480 said there was gonna be a 15 foot barrier from the buffer it'll be a 15 02:09:32.480 --> 02:09:35.840 foot buffer okay it'll be on the south side of that open drain will be on the 02:09:35.840 --> 02:09:40.160 north side no drain so I'll be further away okay and I misunderstood that 02:09:40.160 --> 02:09:42.600 because I drove by there earlier and when you mentioned that I thought 02:09:42.600 --> 02:09:47.760 there's not 15 feet between on the south side of it okay that answers that thank 02:09:47.760 --> 02:09:52.600 you Ron thank you Ron any other questions this is a public hearing you 02:09:52.600 --> 02:09:56.840 on wishing to speak may certainly do so we have a couple cards filled out Ron 02:09:56.840 --> 02:10:00.040 mentioned the applicants is here I do not have a card for the applicant are 02:10:00.040 --> 02:10:04.160 y'all wishing to speak are you just here for questions or you want to say they 02:10:04.160 --> 02:10:08.640 have a presentation okay perfect we'll certainly invite the applicants up you 02:10:08.640 --> 02:10:14.160 have 20 minutes 10 minutes and if you could fill out a card if possible it'd 02:10:14.160 --> 02:10:19.320 be a great help and if you just state your name and address for the record 02:10:19.320 --> 02:10:26.880 five eight one one carry drive Frisco Texas seven five zero three five so thank 02:10:26.880 --> 02:10:32.000 you Commission we were here back in November as Ron mentioned and we got 02:10:32.000 --> 02:10:35.840 very good feedback from the commissioners and we had good feedback 02:10:35.840 --> 02:10:41.160 from the neighborhoods and we made a lot of changes several changes and we went 02:10:41.160 --> 02:10:47.360 back to the neighbors and we got another round of feedback from them and these 02:10:47.360 --> 02:10:51.600 were the feedback that we had received there were basically into four different 02:10:51.600 --> 02:10:58.260 categories now one was traffic the major concerns were laid out over there but it 02:10:58.260 --> 02:11:01.760 seemed like most of the concerns that were came out of the traffic were 02:11:01.760 --> 02:11:07.280 related to the intersection of mingle and mockingbird right and also on the 02:11:07.280 --> 02:11:13.400 south side on mockingbird and order not exactly adjacent to our property in 02:11:13.400 --> 02:11:17.680 front of mockingbird and then the second thing we heard about was the building 02:11:17.680 --> 02:11:22.720 heights and we have reduced that now only to two stories so all the neighbors 02:11:22.720 --> 02:11:27.920 were very pleasant to hear that that we are only going to do two story the third 02:11:27.920 --> 02:11:33.040 one was the drainage because some neighbors mentioned that there is always 02:11:33.040 --> 02:11:37.800 water on the west side of mockingbird on the south side of the mockingbird 02:11:37.800 --> 02:11:43.360 property line and what we have done is we have done a thorough civil floodplain 02:11:43.360 --> 02:11:48.080 study on that and we have included in the new site plan we have modeled the 02:11:48.080 --> 02:11:52.760 floodplain in the area to account for additional runoff so not only normal but 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:58.080 we have also added some additional runoff to make that even better and then 02:11:58.080 --> 02:12:04.400 the fourth feedback we had received at that time was about on-site parking few 02:12:04.400 --> 02:12:07.400 neighbors mentioned it was too much parking few neighbors mentioned it was 02:12:07.400 --> 02:12:14.600 too less parking so in the new site plan as mentioned what we are doing is it is 02:12:14.600 --> 02:12:18.760 inside parking so it's all enclosed garages it's like single-family homes 02:12:18.760 --> 02:12:24.520 right parking is all enclosed and also all the drivers so that's those are the 02:12:24.520 --> 02:12:29.360 few changes that we made to make sure everything is taken for we do have a 02:12:29.360 --> 02:12:34.000 couple questions for you Mr. Beck thank you chair thank you mr. partner for your 02:12:34.000 --> 02:12:37.860 presentation thought I heard you said all your buildings are going to be two 02:12:37.860 --> 02:12:43.320 stories right because in your narrative it says most are all of them are two 02:12:43.320 --> 02:12:49.760 stories so are you saying now that all the buildings will be two story okay 02:12:49.760 --> 02:12:56.200 okay thank you had not seen other questions for you at this time we might 02:12:56.200 --> 02:12:59.760 have some later but thank you for your presentation thank you again this is a 02:12:59.760 --> 02:13:02.480 public hearing anyone wishing to speak may do so we'll go through the cards I 02:13:02.480 --> 02:13:06.960 have and then if they're getting more we can continue the first card I have is 02:13:06.960 --> 02:13:11.120 for Kimberly Wells and if you could just state your name and address for the 02:13:11.120 --> 02:13:19.440 record you'll have three minutes to speak hi my name is Kimberly Wells I live 02:13:19.440 --> 02:13:27.300 at 2933 Stockton Street I just wanted to come and voice my concerns I know many 02:13:27.300 --> 02:13:33.960 have been addressed and I do appreciate that when we do get responses but the 02:13:33.960 --> 02:13:39.520 parking situation still is a big concern to me Stockton runs right behind those 02:13:39.520 --> 02:13:46.360 apartments and so do some of the other neighborhoods and many of those multi 02:13:46.360 --> 02:13:52.880 family homes will have two or three bedrooms and they end up being occupied 02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:57.400 by students which I did when I was a student and each have a car and each 02:13:57.400 --> 02:14:03.440 have two you know significant others with cars and I just that's a big 02:14:03.440 --> 02:14:07.280 concern to me of if Stockton and the other neighborhoods are going to become 02:14:07.280 --> 02:14:13.600 parking for that area I know they said there would be parking for each lot but 02:14:13.600 --> 02:14:20.560 is that is it two car or do they park out on the street how much parking is 02:14:20.560 --> 02:14:25.920 available for each apartment that's that's one of my main concerns and the 02:14:25.920 --> 02:14:30.560 other which he talked about was the drainage Audra and all that does over 02:14:30.560 --> 02:14:35.200 flow a lot and I just don't want anything to make it worse when we go 02:14:35.200 --> 02:14:44.040 down where Audra hits mingo when we have significant rains that area becomes kind 02:14:44.040 --> 02:14:49.160 of overloaded so those are my main concern as I said I live directly below 02:14:49.160 --> 02:14:54.840 and I am pleased that the trees are going to be preserved and that it's been 02:14:54.840 --> 02:14:59.600 cut back to two stories but the parking is kind of my main concern when it 02:14:59.600 --> 02:15:03.840 overflows thank you perfect thank you as well as we have a question for you 02:15:03.840 --> 02:15:08.720 question question Sanchez when you say parking you live on Stockton I live on 02:15:08.720 --> 02:15:14.960 Stockton okay and so in order to come out from from the development or to get 02:15:14.960 --> 02:15:19.040 to the development you have to come on to mockingbird and then go to new stock it 02:15:19.040 --> 02:15:26.000 would just be a kind of a u-turn almost into from there into Stockton because 02:15:26.000 --> 02:15:30.800 they won't be able to park on mockingbird yes mockingbirds like there's 02:15:30.800 --> 02:15:35.720 no there's no parking there there's no parking they'd have to come out of the 02:15:35.720 --> 02:15:40.760 development and then drive all the way to Stockton well Stockton's right behind 02:15:40.760 --> 02:15:45.280 it yeah I know it's right behind it but it would still have the according to the 02:15:45.280 --> 02:15:51.520 what do you call it the entrance or the exit from from from the development it 02:15:51.520 --> 02:15:56.020 would go into mockingbird so they'd have to come in order to park some I'm 02:15:56.020 --> 02:16:00.800 wondering what how that would affect you say it's parking but I don't understand 02:16:00.800 --> 02:16:06.480 I'm saying when visitors come to that lot a lot of issues that come up when 02:16:06.480 --> 02:16:12.520 we talk about towing and things like that is how limited visitors are there 02:16:12.520 --> 02:16:17.520 so if you have a lot of visitors a lot of students a lot of people if they 02:16:17.520 --> 02:16:23.240 don't have enough parking not just for the house but for the visitors they're 02:16:23.240 --> 02:16:27.760 gonna where they will park is in those neighborhoods and I mean I brought up 02:16:27.760 --> 02:16:31.960 Stockton because mine is right there and you could park and then just walk right 02:16:31.960 --> 02:16:37.040 up it's the sidewalk into that area and then there's the neighborhood across the 02:16:37.040 --> 02:16:42.880 street so we're already pretty everybody on my neighborhood seems to own three to 02:16:42.880 --> 02:16:48.920 four trucks so good for them but we're already pretty sandwiched in on our 02:16:48.920 --> 02:16:54.440 street so that's just a concern that if they only allow one or two visitors 02:16:54.440 --> 02:16:59.760 parking spots and people have five or six people over where is that overflow 02:16:59.760 --> 02:17:04.280 parking where are they gonna park and I'm just worried it's gonna be in the 02:17:04.280 --> 02:17:10.080 neighborhoods that's just my main concern okay all right all right thank 02:17:10.080 --> 02:17:14.200 you miss Wells we'll make sure I will get an answer from the city we'll let 02:17:14.200 --> 02:17:16.700 other people speak we'll make sure we'll get an answer about the parking 02:17:16.700 --> 02:17:20.600 requirement you ask okay hang around we'll get an answer for you because some 02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:23.880 apartments have very different from others just as somebody who visits 02:17:23.880 --> 02:17:28.920 apartments they'll say you can't you know find a place to park outside my my 02:17:28.920 --> 02:17:33.120 parking complex so I just want to make sure that's not the case we'll get more 02:17:33.120 --> 02:17:43.480 clarification for you next car I have is for Sandra Williams and if you just 02:17:43.480 --> 02:17:48.080 state your name and address for the record you'll also have three minutes my 02:17:48.080 --> 02:17:56.200 name is my name is Sandra Williams I live at 3049 Brandywine Street I am not 02:17:56.200 --> 02:18:02.400 within the 500 foot impact but I live in the neighborhood on the east side of 02:18:02.400 --> 02:18:08.720 Mockingbird and I have two concerns number one what you call a drainage I 02:18:08.720 --> 02:18:15.600 call a creek when Bel Air was built about 15 years ago they cemented the 02:18:15.600 --> 02:18:23.600 drainage to allow the runoff to go on down but behind our neighborhood the 02:18:23.600 --> 02:18:29.760 drainage is not cemented or concrete and so I just wondered if the city is 02:18:29.760 --> 02:18:36.760 planning on keeping that drain clean so that when there is a heavy rain and to 02:18:36.760 --> 02:18:43.520 accommodate all the extra runoff from the apartments will will it go down the 02:18:43.520 --> 02:18:50.200 and keep flowing east or will it back up and flood my neighborhood my 02:18:50.200 --> 02:18:54.960 neighborhood was flooded I can't remember how many years ago but we had 02:18:54.960 --> 02:19:00.640 about five inches of rain in 12 hours and our streets were flooded now it 02:19:00.640 --> 02:19:07.960 didn't flood any homes it did flood the streets up to the top of the curbs so 02:19:07.960 --> 02:19:12.360 that was a concern and that doesn't have anything to do with the developer I'm 02:19:12.360 --> 02:19:19.400 just asking the city where you keep the creek clean so the water will run off my 02:19:19.400 --> 02:19:28.040 other concern was parking also I am I walk in the neighborhood and I see the 02:19:28.040 --> 02:19:34.600 traffic and I've walked out Audra where it goes east and west goes east toward 02:19:34.600 --> 02:19:43.720 loop 288 and there is a new addition the last five or ten years called Audra 02:19:43.720 --> 02:19:48.160 estates they have built luxury town they're not called town homes they're 02:19:48.160 --> 02:19:56.080 called duplexes and they each have a two-car garage but so many of them have 02:19:56.080 --> 02:20:02.280 been purchased and then leased out to different people like two to four people 02:20:02.280 --> 02:20:07.480 to an apartment with that many different cars and when I walked down the street I 02:20:07.480 --> 02:20:13.680 cannot walk down the sidewalk which was built for that reason for we could so we 02:20:13.680 --> 02:20:18.600 could walk I have taken a couple of pictures if you're interested in seeing 02:20:18.600 --> 02:20:28.560 the parking condition on Bayfield in front of the luxury townhomes because you 02:20:28.560 --> 02:20:35.760 cannot it this street is completely full and my pictures were taken after most of 02:20:35.760 --> 02:20:39.840 the people had left but you still cannot walk down the sidewalk set those right 02:20:39.840 --> 02:20:43.560 on that little target felt right there and then we can have the camera up above 02:20:43.560 --> 02:20:50.240 you turn on thank you so you can see that four cars in a driveway they have a 02:20:50.240 --> 02:20:56.000 garage but they're not using the garages evidently plus more cars on the street 02:20:56.000 --> 02:20:58.760 now I have another one 02:20:58.760 --> 02:21:08.600 it is and this was later in the day like after 8 o'clock maybe almost 9 and 02:21:08.600 --> 02:21:14.420 there's still that many cars on the street my son used to live in a 02:21:14.420 --> 02:21:20.320 neighborhood a condominium neighborhood he had to rent a garage but the garage 02:21:20.320 --> 02:21:27.560 wasn't deep enough for a full-size car or a pickup truck so he couldn't use the 02:21:27.560 --> 02:21:32.680 garage for anything but storage and he used the one allotted parking space out 02:21:32.680 --> 02:21:38.040 front so when we went to visit him from out of town you know and to spend the 02:21:38.040 --> 02:21:43.120 night we had to find a visitor spot there were only just a few visitor spots 02:21:43.120 --> 02:21:49.600 and if the visitor spots were empty when people were coming home from work they 02:21:49.600 --> 02:21:53.820 would use them for for themselves instead of allowing visitors so it was 02:21:53.820 --> 02:21:59.760 really difficult and sometimes we could park in front of the clubhouse but there 02:21:59.760 --> 02:22:04.680 were only about six spots there or we could park farther down toward the 02:22:04.680 --> 02:22:09.680 street and eventually some people were parking out on their street so that's a 02:22:09.680 --> 02:22:16.160 concern as I am thinking of mrs. Wells that they might end up parking on 02:22:16.160 --> 02:22:22.920 mockingbird or coming around the corner when people have visitors I appreciate 02:22:22.920 --> 02:22:31.400 you coming letting us know thank you next is Norman miss Ploy miss play I'm 02:22:31.400 --> 02:22:41.400 sorry miss play if you could just state your name and address for the record 02:22:41.400 --> 02:22:46.800 you also have three minutes my name is Norman display live at 2921 Stockton 02:22:46.800 --> 02:22:55.640 Street which is directly I guess we consider it east of the proposed 02:22:55.760 --> 02:23:02.080 multifamily use that they're going to be putting in there a couple of three concerns about it 02:23:02.080 --> 02:23:06.800 number one in a process of building these they're going to have to widen 02:23:06.800 --> 02:23:10.520 mockingbird in order for the trucks to come in and out and everything else has 02:23:10.520 --> 02:23:14.760 that been addressed as to what they're going to be handling there because of 02:23:14.760 --> 02:23:19.440 the traffic that handles mockingbird that goes up and down that area come from 02:23:19.440 --> 02:23:24.640 mocking comes from Stockton Street which is directly east of there and then the 02:23:24.640 --> 02:23:29.800 rest of the places that are going be able to take care of that and then the 02:23:29.800 --> 02:23:35.400 building is going to be two stories high and I think they said 118 buildings in 02:23:35.400 --> 02:23:39.720 that particular area that means a lot of drainage and everything else with that 02:23:39.720 --> 02:23:44.640 drainage be going into the culvert that is there and the other thing I was 02:23:44.640 --> 02:23:49.880 looking at is right behind our house there is a tree line that goes on the 02:23:49.880 --> 02:23:56.120 north side that we'd like to have the tree line to stay there if possible 02:23:56.120 --> 02:23:59.640 because that breaks a lot of wind that comes down through that area into the 02:23:59.640 --> 02:24:04.560 houses and rattles the fences or blows them down or everything else and maybe 02:24:04.560 --> 02:24:09.560 the shingles and like to know if that tree line can stay there as protection 02:24:09.560 --> 02:24:14.400 for the houses that rear the houses that are on Stockton Street that are right up 02:24:14.400 --> 02:24:19.360 next to that culvert that's right there for the drainage and be sure and just be 02:24:19.360 --> 02:24:23.120 sure that when it does heavy rain that it handles everything that's coming in 02:24:23.120 --> 02:24:27.760 with that many people coming in and those houses being worked on and 02:24:27.760 --> 02:24:31.240 everything else then that means that there may be some things that could 02:24:31.240 --> 02:24:35.680 happen where the drainage doesn't always come off and may take a while while 02:24:35.680 --> 02:24:39.600 they're doing this in order for that to be taken care and handled is you know 02:24:39.600 --> 02:24:43.680 they're going to be working with that and handling that and then the other 02:24:43.680 --> 02:24:47.440 thing is since there's going to be so many people coming into that area and a 02:24:47.440 --> 02:24:51.400 lot of cars and everything what about police trafficking are they going to be 02:24:51.400 --> 02:24:55.880 watching the highway over there much more than what they normally do and we 02:24:55.880 --> 02:24:58.920 also have railroad tracks that come across there which goes through mingle 02:24:58.920 --> 02:25:04.340 and comes across Mockingbird which is right now and sometimes during the day 02:25:04.340 --> 02:25:07.760 and in the evening that's a traffic hazard in some areas that you have to be 02:25:07.760 --> 02:25:11.960 real careful about are they addressing that is that going to be included in 02:25:11.960 --> 02:25:15.280 this or is that going to be taken on by the city at a different time or a 02:25:15.280 --> 02:25:19.400 different area and these are some of the things that we're looking at there the 02:25:19.400 --> 02:25:22.960 people that I've talked to would like to keep the tree line there they want to be 02:25:22.960 --> 02:25:28.000 sure that we're going to have everything taken care of and the people that are 02:25:28.000 --> 02:25:32.480 coming in and who and then who's going to run that area there who's the 02:25:32.480 --> 02:25:35.400 management people they're going to be taking care of it and who's the managers 02:25:35.400 --> 02:25:39.280 are there are they willing to meet with the people that are there so we can be 02:25:39.280 --> 02:25:42.960 sure that we all work together as a team and not individually to the point where 02:25:42.960 --> 02:25:47.000 we're trying to get out everybody else we want to work together we don't mind 02:25:47.000 --> 02:25:51.600 people coming in or anything like that but we want to work together and again 02:25:51.600 --> 02:25:56.040 is the parking situation I've been down Stockton Street either early in the 02:25:56.040 --> 02:25:59.000 morning or late in the evening when the people come home and the people live in 02:25:59.000 --> 02:26:02.960 there there's a lot of houses in there that ran out rooms to college students 02:26:02.960 --> 02:26:07.800 and everything and they parked and again like the picture showed that she had you 02:26:07.800 --> 02:26:14.720 do have the highway I'm going to use her picture she doesn't mind right here if 02:26:14.720 --> 02:26:17.600 there are sidewalks that are blocked through there so it is hard to go 02:26:17.600 --> 02:26:21.200 walking or anything like that especially for the children that are there that 02:26:21.200 --> 02:26:24.960 are coming in because that's parked they have to walk outside or go around the 02:26:24.960 --> 02:26:28.560 cars puts them in the street that could be a dangerous thing for small children 02:26:28.560 --> 02:26:34.160 and we need to be looking at all of that I think any questions at all I do not 02:26:34.160 --> 02:26:37.240 see any questions but I appreciate being here and yes sir 02:26:37.240 --> 02:26:42.720 Commissioner Sanchez I believe that is against a law for them to park and block 02:26:42.720 --> 02:26:50.760 that isn't it I I know I have a tenant that parked like that and I was and he 02:26:50.760 --> 02:26:54.200 was he was warned by the code enforcement that they're not supposed to 02:26:54.200 --> 02:26:59.080 be parking that blocking the sidewalks okay with this many people coming in and 02:26:59.080 --> 02:27:03.680 everything like it is even now on Stockton Street especially we notice a 02:27:03.680 --> 02:27:06.620 lot of people that are parking like that they're trying real hard but the way 02:27:06.620 --> 02:27:11.240 that the situation is set now some of those garages are not sitting for back 02:27:11.240 --> 02:27:15.460 far enough to park in four cars sometimes not even two cars especially if 02:27:15.460 --> 02:27:19.500 you have a ram charger pickup or anything like that and it's still gonna 02:27:19.500 --> 02:27:23.960 stick out in that area so that's still a concern because we have a lot of 02:27:23.960 --> 02:27:29.760 children especially couples coming in young children out you want to walk and 02:27:29.760 --> 02:27:33.360 stuff like that we might not look out for them we want to be on the curse on 02:27:33.360 --> 02:27:36.920 the careful side of that and this is the other thing that we're looking at to be 02:27:36.920 --> 02:27:42.600 sure that everything that we work with is working cooperatively we understand 02:27:42.600 --> 02:27:46.520 that they want to build housings there and multi units that's well and fine 02:27:46.520 --> 02:27:53.320 let's be sure we got all the all our T's crossed all our I's dot as we go into 02:27:53.320 --> 02:27:56.560 this and these things need to be addressed before they start building or 02:27:56.560 --> 02:28:01.040 they get it taken care of so we understand exactly what's going on I 02:28:01.040 --> 02:28:05.880 missed the meetings that they had I'll be honest with you I worked a lot but 02:28:05.880 --> 02:28:10.400 that's beside the point the point of it is that we look at this objectively and 02:28:10.400 --> 02:28:14.340 be sure that everything that is done that can be done and I'm sure that the 02:28:14.340 --> 02:28:17.520 people building these houses have got a lot of things on their mind and they're 02:28:17.520 --> 02:28:21.280 looking at the same time but you still got material coming in you got a lot of 02:28:21.280 --> 02:28:25.080 trucks coming up and down mockingbird and that's not a very big street as it 02:28:25.080 --> 02:28:28.760 is number two there's only two instances into the area where they're talking 02:28:28.760 --> 02:28:32.160 about so they're probably going to have to enlarge those areas in order to get 02:28:32.160 --> 02:28:35.960 trucks in and out and materials in and out at the same time there's only two 02:28:35.960 --> 02:28:39.560 ways you can get into that place when I was by that house is there the other 02:28:39.560 --> 02:28:46.080 ones down by another little what used to be watch house or a house that worked 02:28:46.080 --> 02:28:50.160 with gardening or whatever to go into that area which means that they do that 02:28:50.160 --> 02:28:54.360 and they're going to enlarge it and that also means that that drainage is comes 02:28:54.360 --> 02:28:56.920 down through there that goes into the fire we have to look and be sure that's 02:28:56.920 --> 02:29:03.800 all tied in any other questions I did not see any thank you very much thank you 02:29:03.800 --> 02:29:15.040 very much thank you for coming out next go to have us for Linda good off I need 02:29:15.040 --> 02:29:18.280 to state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes thank 02:29:18.280 --> 02:29:23.160 you my name is Linda good away I live at 3001 Oakshire Street thank you for the 02:29:23.160 --> 02:29:27.280 opportunity to speak and I apologize for being late I'm actually coming out of a 02:29:27.280 --> 02:29:31.760 PTA meeting so I'm actually the president of the PTA for Alexander 02:29:31.760 --> 02:29:37.920 Alexander Elementary School so I am proud of my community very involved I 02:29:37.920 --> 02:29:45.840 happen to be located within that 500 foot area my subdivision has one 02:29:45.840 --> 02:29:51.000 entrance one exit and we already have issues with traffic backing up when 02:29:51.000 --> 02:29:56.400 there's a train cars lining either side of the street so that fire engines 02:29:56.400 --> 02:30:02.800 ambulances have a tough time entering and exiting I think the potential for 02:30:02.800 --> 02:30:09.080 building this project will bring at least 200 more cars onto a two-lane road 02:30:09.080 --> 02:30:17.240 that does not have sidewalks I cannot walk when I lived I moved here in 2006 02:30:17.240 --> 02:30:23.360 from Austin I walked four miles every day and it was safe I was around Zilker 02:30:23.360 --> 02:30:29.320 Park I was in a very congested busy area I can leave my subdivision if I cross 02:30:29.320 --> 02:30:35.080 Mockingbird and go over into the Bel Air addition they have sidewalks but that 02:30:35.080 --> 02:30:40.560 would require me crossing that very busy street I'd like to remind everyone we 02:30:40.560 --> 02:30:47.680 had a death in October of 2018 of an esteemed member of our community who was 02:30:47.680 --> 02:30:53.360 crossing Audra just four tenths of a mile north of the woodlands he was 02:30:53.360 --> 02:30:57.800 walking his dogs he was trying to cross Audra trying to get back home he was 02:30:57.800 --> 02:31:03.560 killed he was struck by a vehicle and he and his dogs were killed I know several 02:31:03.560 --> 02:31:10.480 years ago on Audra close to loop 288 we also do not have sidewalks there so 02:31:10.480 --> 02:31:14.340 there's no way I can even make a walk around the block with my kids my dogs 02:31:14.340 --> 02:31:19.840 safely because there's not sidewalks for me to do that on there was a young boy 02:31:19.840 --> 02:31:26.320 who was struck by a vehicle on his bike he survived but I just I am very 02:31:26.320 --> 02:31:31.520 sensitive to the fact that our kids our family are in danger with the 02:31:31.520 --> 02:31:36.520 infrastructure the way it is so I'm not opposed to the development but I really 02:31:36.520 --> 02:31:40.920 would love to see infrastructure I felt like we waited very patiently while the 02:31:40.920 --> 02:31:45.000 Bel Air addition was installed I was hoping that we would get sidewalks 02:31:45.000 --> 02:31:54.640 completed on Audra and on Mockingbird I'd also like to remind you that Mockingbird 02:31:54.640 --> 02:32:01.820 and then Mingo flood so when we have a heavy rain it floods so it's going to 02:32:01.820 --> 02:32:06.640 cause whoever resides in this development to maybe not be able to get 02:32:06.640 --> 02:32:10.640 home when we have a heavy rain so there needs to be improvements on both 02:32:10.640 --> 02:32:15.480 Mockingbird and Mingo additionally I'm sure you all have traveled down Mingo 02:32:15.480 --> 02:32:20.960 when there was a train and you see how far the traffic backs up it's a hazard 02:32:20.960 --> 02:32:28.760 because again that's a two-lane road no sidewalks there either thank you so much 02:32:28.760 --> 02:32:32.360 for being here and thanks for your service to the schools Christian for not 02:32:32.360 --> 02:32:36.920 has a question yeah I just kind of wanted to ask real quick I hadn't really 02:32:36.920 --> 02:32:41.440 made the connection of where exactly this was Roddy was a friend of mine thank 02:32:41.440 --> 02:32:45.240 you and I just wanted to ask if you're all in the community have made any 02:32:45.240 --> 02:32:50.160 efforts petitioning City Council about getting sidewalks in your area to improve 02:32:50.160 --> 02:32:56.000 the safety you know we have not and I want to say I just assumed it was in the 02:32:56.000 --> 02:33:00.460 plan you know I just assumed that when you work with the developers to increase 02:33:00.460 --> 02:33:03.840 the density of the housing population that you're also working on the 02:33:03.840 --> 02:33:08.320 infrastructure I think in the presentation it said that Mockingbird 02:33:08.320 --> 02:33:13.020 Mingo they're not they're not up to the code for the amount of traffic that they 02:33:13.020 --> 02:33:19.720 receive currently so why would we impose over 200 additional cars on those roads 02:33:19.720 --> 02:33:26.520 so yes that would be my next step to to go to City Council but I just I feel 02:33:26.520 --> 02:33:30.200 like we kind of got orphaned over there you know that there's a lot of 02:33:30.200 --> 02:33:36.680 improvement going on in other areas of the city and we just got left behind the 02:33:36.680 --> 02:33:40.360 elementary school my kids go to was known as Robert E. Lee it's one of the 02:33:40.360 --> 02:33:45.360 older elementary schools in Denton we are a title one elementary school and if 02:33:45.360 --> 02:33:50.120 you look at the district zoning map we probably have the smallest radius around 02:33:50.120 --> 02:33:55.000 the elementary school of any elementary school in Denton ISD and the reason is 02:33:55.000 --> 02:34:02.680 the volume of multi-family homes it's very densely populated 02:34:02.680 --> 02:34:10.680 Tricia Sanchez so let me get you live it in the woodlands no I don't live in the 02:34:10.680 --> 02:34:15.280 woodlands but the pedestrian death I was speaking of happened in the driver's 02:34:15.280 --> 02:34:21.640 way of the Ann Wendell school and it was four tenths of a mile from the woodlands 02:34:21.640 --> 02:34:26.240 which is a recent fairly recent multi-family development right right right 02:34:26.240 --> 02:34:31.600 so so where actually do you live so I live on the corner of mockingbird and 02:34:31.600 --> 02:34:38.400 Oakshire Street okay okay yes yeah that whole area doesn't have sidewalks no we 02:34:38.400 --> 02:34:43.840 really need them because so much traffic comes in and out okay I just want to 02:34:43.840 --> 02:34:49.000 make sure we're thank you thank you and and may I also say even over in the 02:34:49.000 --> 02:34:53.280 Bel Air edition where there are sidewalks kids play football in the 02:34:53.280 --> 02:34:57.320 street they play basketball we don't have a park we don't have a shared play 02:34:57.320 --> 02:35:01.880 space so our streets right now are actually serving as the playground for 02:35:01.880 --> 02:35:12.440 our children unfortunately Ron are you aware of City Council's form they have 02:35:12.440 --> 02:35:18.560 for requesting sidewalks council member Briggs had recently posted that I was 02:35:18.560 --> 02:35:23.000 wondering if if not I can sidebar with Miss Godoy to get her that there is a 02:35:23.000 --> 02:35:28.640 public form where you can request a sidewalk like petition process we can 02:35:28.640 --> 02:35:34.180 certainly provide that to mr. yeah sorry I think that's the lowest barrier to 02:35:34.180 --> 02:35:38.040 entry to get in front of council on sidewalk provisions so I'd certainly at 02:35:38.040 --> 02:35:40.560 least fill out that form online so a council member will follow up with you 02:35:40.560 --> 02:35:46.260 about what steps would take to hopefully build some sidewalk infrastructure thank 02:35:46.260 --> 02:35:53.800 you Ron I do not see any thank you so much for your time thank you that's the 02:35:53.800 --> 02:35:56.880 last card I had but this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak may 02:35:56.880 --> 02:36:01.720 certainly do so is there anyone else wishing to speak you may certainly do 02:36:01.720 --> 02:36:10.800 so if you just can come to the mic and state your name and address for the 02:36:10.800 --> 02:36:21.560 record my name is Nancy Carson and I live at 2908 Oakshire and I just have 02:36:21.560 --> 02:36:27.640 some questions from things that were said tonight so could I ask those you 02:36:27.640 --> 02:36:30.440 certainly ask those and then we'll I'm getting a list and I think the other 02:36:30.440 --> 02:36:33.980 commissioners are as well to make sure all those questions that are asked can 02:36:33.980 --> 02:36:39.160 be addressed as best as possible okay I'd like to know how many bedrooms are 02:36:39.160 --> 02:36:49.160 going to be in these units and if they'll all be the same or a variety if 02:36:49.160 --> 02:36:52.840 you just is that the only question you have no I have another one let's list 02:36:52.840 --> 02:36:56.640 those questions and I'll call the okay and I'd like to know if there's going to 02:36:56.640 --> 02:37:07.080 be a site manager or a resident manager on the property and I'd like to know how 02:37:07.080 --> 02:37:20.040 far the railroad track is from the property line any other questions I had 02:37:20.040 --> 02:37:32.880 more let's say oh I think Ron mentioned a low density that they had when they 02:37:32.880 --> 02:37:39.240 were planning this they decided to lower the density so I wanted to ask about 02:37:39.240 --> 02:37:47.440 that what did they lower it to or they lowered it just under 12 it's a 11 point 02:37:47.440 --> 02:37:54.680 nine units per acre okay so it's under the 12 units per acre that the zoning I 02:37:54.680 --> 02:37:59.720 thought it already was 12 that was why I was asked in the question they came at 02:37:59.720 --> 02:38:03.200 last year with the proposal that has significantly more than 12 per acre 02:38:03.200 --> 02:38:08.120 they've refined their application and brought it back this evening with it 02:38:08.120 --> 02:38:11.760 reduced under the 12 okay thank you and I'll make sure we get the other 02:38:11.760 --> 02:38:16.720 questions if possible so thank you for those questions thank you is there 02:38:16.720 --> 02:38:21.800 other individuals wishing to speak on this item this is a public hearing 02:38:21.800 --> 02:38:25.880 anyone wishing to speak we certainly do so 02:38:25.880 --> 02:38:39.280 so seeing no other comments I'll go ahead and close the public hearing and 02:38:39.280 --> 02:38:44.360 turn it to the dais for motion or questions and I certainly have some 02:38:44.360 --> 02:38:47.600 questions for city and the applicant to address but we'll let Commissioner back 02:38:47.600 --> 02:38:52.640 go thank you chair yeah I would like the owner to come back up and address the 02:38:52.640 --> 02:38:58.520 parking if you could and if you've got your site plan if you could put that up 02:38:58.520 --> 02:39:04.760 for us because I I'm looking at it and it's not real clear how parking is I 02:39:04.760 --> 02:39:10.240 think I've got a good idea but I'd like you to demonstrate how parking is going 02:39:10.240 --> 02:39:30.320 to occur within okay you've got 11 buildings correct okay and I see those 02:39:30.320 --> 02:39:34.840 so is the parking going to be in between the buildings 02:40:00.480 --> 02:40:08.560 can you turn the mic just yeah sorry so the example that was given here on this 02:40:08.560 --> 02:40:13.560 one I have visited the property personally and it's a dead-end street 02:40:13.560 --> 02:40:21.560 and there are 78 units in less than five acres and I would never do that it's a 02:40:21.560 --> 02:40:26.680 dead-end there is no other way to go that's the only street you can park 78 02:40:26.680 --> 02:40:31.000 times two okay but I need you to address your parking if you would what that that 02:40:31.000 --> 02:40:37.320 area you're showing to is to the east of all these units here they're not there's 02:40:37.320 --> 02:40:41.520 no street connection to it so I'm not sure how anybody get away to walk it 02:40:41.520 --> 02:40:45.760 unless they got up on the order and walked over but if you would show us how 02:40:45.760 --> 02:40:50.080 your units are going to allow for parking 02:40:52.840 --> 02:40:56.760 absolutely yeah you just state your name and address so we have my name is Patrick 02:40:56.760 --> 02:41:01.160 I'm with Kirkman engineering my address is 4821 Merlot Avenue in grapevine Texas 02:41:01.160 --> 02:41:05.280 I've got a list of questions here I could probably really help make some 02:41:05.280 --> 02:41:11.600 clarification there yeah if we could address Mr. Beck's question on parking 02:41:11.600 --> 02:41:19.280 each this will really function like a town can you sit your plane yeah this is 02:41:19.280 --> 02:41:23.280 really what I'd like to show here and this is a detail of each driveway 02:41:23.280 --> 02:41:28.160 location or any the square here is going to be the unit you can see the interior 02:41:28.160 --> 02:41:33.040 garage there in a driveway and so each particular unit can house four cars 02:41:33.040 --> 02:41:36.640 it's got four parking stalls assigned to each unit and we worked pretty 02:41:36.640 --> 02:41:40.080 extensively with staff on that because that really exceeds the parking 02:41:40.080 --> 02:41:44.840 requirement to a point where we had to add more trees or reduce parking those 02:41:44.840 --> 02:41:50.600 were our options or or pay for them and so we work with staff to kind of make 02:41:50.600 --> 02:41:58.320 the the unique clarification of that this doesn't really function as a 02:41:58.320 --> 02:42:03.480 multifamily product and these parks are valuable and will serve for the for the 02:42:03.480 --> 02:42:07.480 betterment of the community to go back to the point that is brought up on the 02:42:07.480 --> 02:42:12.880 duplex community down the road is it's a public street and public right away this 02:42:12.880 --> 02:42:17.400 is a private development which can be policed significantly better than that 02:42:17.400 --> 02:42:24.880 the public road development allows on on Street Park that's well within the 02:42:24.880 --> 02:42:29.080 rules and the law this would be against the rules if someone wants parks on the 02:42:29.080 --> 02:42:32.320 fire lane that that's against the law and you've got people on site that can 02:42:32.320 --> 02:42:37.960 can police that and maintain that so that and there there's guest parking per 02:42:37.960 --> 02:42:44.560 the city code like I said beyond that so the calculations that's been done is per 02:42:44.560 --> 02:42:50.120 its per unit per bedroom based on the size of the unit the unit based on the 02:42:50.120 --> 02:42:54.760 size of the bedrooms or the number of bedrooms and then you add on 10% for 02:42:54.760 --> 02:42:59.080 visitor parking and we way exceeded that number to a point where we had to work 02:42:59.080 --> 02:43:04.800 with staff to come up with a compromise there that is parking I guess we could 02:43:04.800 --> 02:43:07.240 we could address the questions as you like or I could run through the list of 02:43:07.240 --> 02:43:11.840 questions I heard from the residents real quick and then yeah if you would do 02:43:11.840 --> 02:43:17.200 that yeah since here there's gonna be approximately 118 units that's great 02:43:17.200 --> 02:43:23.640 that's 118 bedrooms that's 118 units individually school units we've got one 02:43:23.640 --> 02:43:30.440 two and three bedrooms correct and the site plan itself in the site data table 02:43:30.440 --> 02:43:36.280 here let list each lot in the number of units in each one and then I think the 02:43:36.280 --> 02:43:41.760 majority of my three-bedroom and there's two-bedroom on on lot two okay yeah if 02:43:41.760 --> 02:43:49.200 you would go ahead yeah okay yeah sure I think we can get clear up a lot of the 02:43:49.200 --> 02:43:53.080 confusion here so parking is like we discussed I mean I think we went way 02:43:53.080 --> 02:43:58.680 above and beyond on the parking drainage I understand that the the property is 02:43:58.680 --> 02:44:02.840 wet now it's got floodplain on it we're working to not even to mitigate that 02:44:02.840 --> 02:44:07.320 really to remap it when that concrete channel was put in they remapped a 02:44:07.320 --> 02:44:12.080 portion of the floodplain they didn't remap the entire floodplain that concrete 02:44:12.080 --> 02:44:15.640 channel holds the majority of the floodplain so we will remap that and then 02:44:15.640 --> 02:44:21.320 mitigate what we don't that the concrete channel does not hold so you you know the 02:44:21.320 --> 02:44:25.120 the drainage may be bad now from a standpoint of water standing around 02:44:25.120 --> 02:44:29.800 we'll create a scenario that significantly improves that you know and 02:44:29.800 --> 02:44:33.920 I understand the concept of well we're adding all these buildings we're out in 02:44:33.920 --> 02:44:37.240 all this concrete we're going to increase runoff absolutely 100% correct 02:44:37.240 --> 02:44:41.840 but what we will do is increase the time it takes for it to get for rain to hit 02:44:41.840 --> 02:44:45.400 the ground get in the channel and out of the system instead of letting it hit the 02:44:45.400 --> 02:44:49.600 ground build up get saturated fill the channel up while everything upstream of 02:44:49.600 --> 02:44:53.320 the channel fills up the channel and those thing to peaks meet at the same 02:44:53.320 --> 02:44:57.040 time so there's a there's a peak on peak phenomenon that is an engineering 02:44:57.040 --> 02:45:00.400 discussion and so we'll get in and out of the system well before that peak 02:45:00.400 --> 02:45:03.760 comes through and so the overall drainage of the property should increase 02:45:03.760 --> 02:45:07.920 or should be improved when we come in and with this development and you know 02:45:07.920 --> 02:45:11.720 you don't have to believe me there's we've got a flood study that proves that 02:45:11.720 --> 02:45:21.560 and well the city will require that of us so that's drainage so trees I'm sure 02:45:21.560 --> 02:45:24.760 you guys have seen a number of tree mitigation plans or preservation plans 02:45:24.760 --> 02:45:30.880 we that this site was particularly difficult and there are a number of 02:45:30.880 --> 02:45:34.600 trees on the site and we're required to preserve a number of them there's a 02:45:34.600 --> 02:45:39.280 bunch of really really nice old mature trees and we want to preserve them as 02:45:39.280 --> 02:45:43.120 much as anybody and we're required to preserve a number of them which we're 02:45:43.120 --> 02:45:46.560 doing and then the ones that we can't preserve we're required to mitigate for 02:45:46.560 --> 02:45:51.800 and and we're far exceeding that to that point the trees that run along the 02:45:51.800 --> 02:45:55.800 north edge of that open drainage you'd be able to salvage that and use that as 02:45:55.800 --> 02:46:02.480 part of your absolutely I'm not here to commit that I can absolutely do that the 02:46:02.480 --> 02:46:06.320 design the engineering hasn't been done on that but I mean you're gonna have a 02:46:06.320 --> 02:46:10.800 15-foot barrier there anyway so those trees could absolutely serve part of it 02:46:10.800 --> 02:46:14.280 yes I mean we want the barriers as much as anybody we want the natural trees 02:46:14.280 --> 02:46:17.880 just as much as anybody and that is absolutely a high priority for us and 02:46:17.880 --> 02:46:21.240 it's part of our tree mitigation plan so we're anticipating that being the case 02:46:21.240 --> 02:46:32.000 okay that was trees having a hard time reading my hand right in here oh the 02:46:32.000 --> 02:46:36.080 again on the public chain of the channel and the maintenance of that it's a public 02:46:36.080 --> 02:46:39.280 channel it's not on our property it's completely off our property it'll be 02:46:39.280 --> 02:46:46.560 maintained and up and by the by the city they'll that's really kind of out of a 02:46:46.560 --> 02:46:50.520 lot of these issues are out of our control and out of our purview really 02:46:50.520 --> 02:46:59.360 so how many I guess I'm trying to stay in order here drainage trees so police 02:46:59.360 --> 02:47:06.400 trafficking I you know I'm not sure we've got a real large control that we 02:47:06.400 --> 02:47:11.160 will have on-site management that that will manage the multifamily development 02:47:11.160 --> 02:47:14.280 like any other one if there's issues that they will be in contact with the 02:47:14.280 --> 02:47:18.600 police they'll be you know well the managers actually live there or just be 02:47:18.600 --> 02:47:35.000 there during working hours there was a concern about how construction gets in 02:47:35.000 --> 02:47:41.800 and out of the site I have I'm fortunate enough to be deal a lot with development 02:47:41.800 --> 02:47:46.200 and construction and there will be a one construction entrance there may be two 02:47:46.200 --> 02:47:49.280 access points to the site right now there'll be there'll be one point of 02:47:49.280 --> 02:47:53.960 access that'll be built per you know standards of the city and and regional 02:47:53.960 --> 02:47:58.320 standards that show how to create a construction entrance trucks get in and 02:47:58.320 --> 02:48:02.180 out pretty freely it's going to create debris on the road that will have to be 02:48:02.180 --> 02:48:05.480 maintained and cleaned up and you know periodically that that's part of this 02:48:05.480 --> 02:48:08.560 process and it's part of any construction process it'll be done just 02:48:08.560 --> 02:48:19.200 like any other the sidewalks the lack of sidewalks in the adjacent neighborhoods 02:48:19.200 --> 02:48:23.360 I really can't do a whole lot to address address that concern but one of the 02:48:23.360 --> 02:48:29.640 things that has been required of us is along with the expansion of mockingbird 02:48:29.640 --> 02:48:33.360 or the inclusion inclusion of two D cell lanes for each one for each of our 02:48:33.360 --> 02:48:36.960 drivers an eight-foot sidewalk is required along our entire frontage and 02:48:36.960 --> 02:48:41.760 so you know that that should help out some of the sidewalk situation as much 02:48:41.760 --> 02:48:44.840 as we possibly can it was yeah that was another question y'all are gonna be 02:48:44.840 --> 02:48:50.760 required to put sidewall okay we connect to Stockton I believe we don't connect 02:48:50.760 --> 02:48:55.560 to Stockton oh that's right the drink right so we'll take it to the limits of 02:48:55.560 --> 02:49:01.080 our of our site and beyond that it's right away and other private brought I 02:49:01.080 --> 02:49:10.140 forgot about the open right there so more flooding and like was discussed 02:49:10.140 --> 02:49:14.760 before a lot of the concerns were the traffic on you know adjacent areas on 02:49:14.760 --> 02:49:18.800 mockingbird and mingo and on Audra there's there's very little I think we 02:49:18.800 --> 02:49:24.080 we can do we've done a traffic study and I know Ron mentioned that with all three 02:49:24.080 --> 02:49:29.160 of the thoroughfares in that area are not built to ultimate conditions that is 02:49:29.160 --> 02:49:32.960 true but they are operating within a reasonable standard at this time the 02:49:32.960 --> 02:49:39.760 traffic study shows that in that the way that process typically works in my mind 02:49:39.760 --> 02:49:44.640 and you know maybe city staff can correct me is that when there's not 02:49:44.640 --> 02:49:48.520 really a major need there until there until you get those level service that 02:49:48.520 --> 02:49:52.960 are operating in a function that aren't servicing the neighborhoods and you know 02:49:52.960 --> 02:49:56.120 that that's that's kind of where we're at we're making the improvements to 02:49:56.120 --> 02:50:01.800 mockingbird where we can but the adjacent areas are really outside of our 02:50:01.800 --> 02:50:13.680 control don't yeah I think that's so I'm gonna just I think one of the questions 02:50:13.680 --> 02:50:17.920 the distance from the railroad tracks was that address and if you can use this 02:50:17.920 --> 02:50:22.280 Patrick to illustrate it shows your site plan a little relationship to the 02:50:22.280 --> 02:50:26.880 railroad yes sir so these are the railroad tracks way up here in gray I 02:50:26.880 --> 02:50:31.720 believe I you don't get me lying but I'm happy to measure it and give an exact 02:50:31.720 --> 02:50:34.920 distance but you can see that I think there's a hundred foot right away here 02:50:34.920 --> 02:50:38.680 for the railroad and the railroad tracks are generally in the middle of the 02:50:38.680 --> 02:50:43.480 railroads it looks like about 50 feet here and then you know another 30 feet 02:50:43.480 --> 02:50:47.320 to the closest building here and you know you see a significant difference 02:50:47.320 --> 02:50:52.240 distance here from the railroad the railroad certainly a concern of ours and 02:50:52.240 --> 02:50:58.240 you know it's sometimes it's difficult to lease space for people to live in 02:50:58.240 --> 02:51:03.360 near a railroad and they're not quiet they are a burden and it's something we 02:51:03.360 --> 02:51:08.720 will certainly have to deal with we do have another question from Chris or 02:51:08.720 --> 02:51:14.120 Sanchez sure are you targeting us students or you get be targeting 02:51:14.120 --> 02:51:21.240 families I think with three bedrooms and two bedrooms mostly we are looking at 02:51:21.240 --> 02:51:27.480 families but again the market decides that but we'll be targeting both so you're 02:51:27.480 --> 02:51:32.440 gonna be renting by the by the apartment not by the room right that is correct is 02:51:32.440 --> 02:51:39.240 that correct okay to show us thank you chair I know a TIA was done do you know 02:51:39.240 --> 02:51:46.800 what that study revealed yes yes I don't have here with me but it so we did an 02:51:46.800 --> 02:51:50.320 original TIA if you remember back in November when we were before you there 02:51:50.320 --> 02:51:55.720 were three driveways and so a little different modification to Mockingbird 02:51:55.720 --> 02:51:59.640 Road and so that TIA was specifically took into account for those three 02:51:59.640 --> 02:52:03.840 driveways and the diesel lanes and the traffic movements and that's 02:52:03.840 --> 02:52:08.640 configuration the TIA has been revised to accommodate or to show the two 02:52:08.640 --> 02:52:12.960 driveways and the level of service so it's like a it's like a letter score 02:52:12.960 --> 02:52:19.280 grade a is good E is unfunctionable and I and I think the all the roads that are 02:52:19.280 --> 02:52:25.560 mockingbird and mingo were both in the B range do you remember numbers 02:52:25.560 --> 02:52:31.680 generation I don't know I'm not happy to provide the report to you I know see 02:52:31.680 --> 02:52:37.880 staff has it and we can provide that information you sure back thank you 02:52:37.880 --> 02:52:44.600 chair just we're here to vote on especially use permits so my question 02:52:44.600 --> 02:52:49.160 isn't really pertinent to that but if you mind me asking if you mind sharing 02:52:49.160 --> 02:52:55.520 what kind of price range are you looking at for your apartments close to around 02:52:55.520 --> 02:53:03.800 $2,000 for a month I'm sorry for a month per unit yeah because the okay one 02:53:03.800 --> 02:53:10.160 bedroom would go for one unit one unit will be around $2,000 per month right 02:53:10.160 --> 02:53:18.400 what do you call in a unit oh we have one three bedroom will be one unit okay 02:53:18.400 --> 02:53:22.560 so three bedroom would go for 2,000 that is correct and two bedroom would 02:53:22.560 --> 02:53:27.080 obviously be a little bit less okay yeah okay so the maximum no it's gonna be 02:53:27.080 --> 02:53:31.240 three bedroom and around 2,000 that is correct okay thank you appreciate you 02:53:31.240 --> 02:53:38.580 sharing it I don't see any other questions this time so the public 02:53:38.580 --> 02:53:42.800 hearing has been closed we've got a lot of questions answered certainly if 02:53:42.800 --> 02:53:46.200 there's any more we can we can have the discussion but the chair would would 02:53:46.200 --> 02:53:50.600 look to have a motion and discussion around the motion at this time 02:53:50.600 --> 02:53:56.760 Christian back I'm gonna go ahead and move to approve this he has met the 02:53:56.760 --> 02:54:01.380 criteria by right he can build there I understand the concern about the extra 02:54:01.380 --> 02:54:07.240 traffic that's gonna occur there but it's it's gonna occur regardless that 02:54:07.240 --> 02:54:11.560 spot won't stay empty forever the concern about any parking on Monking 02:54:11.560 --> 02:54:15.720 Bird should be a moot issue they're just it's prohibited for anybody to park 02:54:15.720 --> 02:54:19.360 there they would park at their own risk if they did so I don't see that being a 02:54:19.360 --> 02:54:23.520 problem and based on what he's shown us he's meeting the parking requirements 02:54:23.520 --> 02:54:28.400 and then some I would be surprised if you saw any parking taking place on the 02:54:28.400 --> 02:54:33.520 other streets here so I think he's gone out of his way to accommodate the 02:54:33.520 --> 02:54:38.440 neighborhood as best he can and I'm gonna go ahead and move to approve and 02:54:38.440 --> 02:54:42.400 Christian back for clarification are you recommending approval with conditions 02:54:42.400 --> 02:54:45.940 with the condition yes thank you we have a first for approval with 02:54:45.940 --> 02:54:53.560 conditions Commissioner Sanchez I second it I'd like to state and the reason I 02:54:53.560 --> 02:54:58.240 I'd like to mean that their apartments and they're gonna have some I know one 02:54:58.240 --> 02:55:03.640 of the big concerns was are they gonna have on-site management and they 02:55:03.640 --> 02:55:07.960 are and these are going to be apartments as opposed to I know we were shown some 02:55:07.960 --> 02:55:13.520 pictures about those condos down the down the road and I don't know if they 02:55:13.520 --> 02:55:19.400 have on-site management there so I yeah there's a big difference and those I've 02:55:19.400 --> 02:55:23.920 been through there and when I first saw him I was appalled that something like 02:55:23.920 --> 02:55:30.400 that was allowed because they it just didn't seem to me all the cars on the 02:55:30.400 --> 02:55:33.400 middle of the road on the side of the road and there were people couldn't 02:55:33.400 --> 02:55:37.640 drive through those roads through those through that street so I think what 02:55:37.640 --> 02:55:44.320 we're seeing all the concessions they've done bringing it from down to 12 units 02:55:44.320 --> 02:55:49.640 per acre is a lot of concessions there is some issues with with 02:55:49.640 --> 02:55:57.240 Audra and mingo and what's it mockingbird but I think I think those are 02:55:57.240 --> 02:56:01.960 gonna be those also going to be addressed you know in the future but I 02:56:01.960 --> 02:56:10.120 think they're doing an honest effort to to create some little be acceptable 02:56:10.120 --> 02:56:16.440 there in that area we have a first and a second for approval with conditions 02:56:16.440 --> 02:56:21.920 commissioner pernetta yeah I just wanted to say a few words on this one I want to 02:56:21.920 --> 02:56:24.880 thank the developer and everything for taking all the suggestions that came 02:56:24.880 --> 02:56:30.280 out of the last time you were here there was a lot of opposition to what you guys 02:56:30.280 --> 02:56:34.000 had been planning on doing and the fact that you got the number of units and 02:56:34.000 --> 02:56:38.320 everything down you know within the zoning showed you know a great deal of 02:56:38.320 --> 02:56:44.080 conscientiousness you know we had the questions about how parking would be 02:56:44.080 --> 02:56:48.520 impacted on this one and my mother-in-law lives not too far from there 02:56:48.520 --> 02:56:53.800 so I'm kind of used to driving around those areas and have seen that based on 02:56:53.800 --> 02:56:57.960 the plan that he's kind of presented and everything the entry paths into the 02:56:57.960 --> 02:57:02.640 community it seemed like they might mitigate the desire for other people to 02:57:02.640 --> 02:57:06.880 park you know and surrounding areas because it looks like it'd be kind of a 02:57:06.880 --> 02:57:12.440 inconvenient walk to go back from you know the adjacent blocks into there so I 02:57:12.440 --> 02:57:17.320 think that's a good thing for mitigation one of the other things I do hope you 02:57:17.320 --> 02:57:22.760 guys do you know is petition the city for sidewalks because I completely 02:57:22.760 --> 02:57:26.840 sympathize with that and I know a lot of the challenges that people face 02:57:26.840 --> 02:57:31.200 especially when you have a lot of children in that area so that doesn't 02:57:31.200 --> 02:57:34.760 fall into the purview of what we're doing here but you know by all means 02:57:34.760 --> 02:57:37.640 please seek that out because I would like to see that happen for your 02:57:37.640 --> 02:57:46.960 community thank you any other discussion on the item the only thing I would say 02:57:46.960 --> 02:57:51.440 is I'd echo Commissioner Pereta's thoughts I think there's some legitimate 02:57:51.440 --> 02:57:56.520 concerns from the neighborhood that that need to be addressed I hope they do get 02:57:56.520 --> 02:58:00.880 addressed with the sidewalks and a lot of other things but I I don't know the 02:58:00.880 --> 02:58:03.900 extent in which the developers being should be held responsible for that and 02:58:03.900 --> 02:58:08.440 I appreciate the feedback unfortunately it's not very often that the Commission 02:58:08.440 --> 02:58:13.680 here pushes back the developer responds with with such consideration to the 02:58:13.680 --> 02:58:16.440 neighborhood and the the feedback from the Commission so I appreciate that 02:58:16.440 --> 02:58:20.880 y'all coming back and being persistent to to take that land and make use of it 02:58:20.880 --> 02:58:32.040 but seeing no other discussion I'll call for a vote on the board motion carries 02:58:32.040 --> 02:58:37.840 six zero congratulations then real fast staff wanted to say something I just 02:58:37.840 --> 02:58:41.560 wanted to add on the sidewalk issue I know we have your your contact 02:58:41.560 --> 02:58:47.000 information I do know that there is a project funded through the through the 02:58:47.000 --> 02:58:51.560 COG Council of Governments it's a federally federally funded for 02:58:51.560 --> 02:58:56.480 improvement of the sidewalk network around the school and I know that 02:58:56.480 --> 02:59:00.000 there's a there's a portion of Audra I believe that's it that's part of that 02:59:00.000 --> 02:59:04.960 federally funded project I think it has a completion date of 2020 but we'll get 02:59:04.960 --> 02:59:08.480 all of that information send it to you and then we'll make sure that the 02:59:08.480 --> 02:59:11.640 Commission's also copied on it so just wanted to 02:59:17.000 --> 02:59:28.160 I think you have valid questions right now the forum this is not the 02:59:28.160 --> 02:59:31.560 appropriate forum but Ron's right behind you and I think that would be a great 02:59:31.560 --> 02:59:35.640 sidebar conversation he's the expert and so he can help you out thanks again for 02:59:35.640 --> 02:59:43.120 coming out that moves us to our closing item the planning and zoning matrix I'll 02:59:43.120 --> 02:59:46.480 first turn it to Richard for any clarification and then to the 02:59:46.480 --> 02:59:50.680 Commission for any additions the only item that that I wanted to update on 02:59:50.680 --> 02:59:55.160 here I know we have a lot of to be determined so we're trying to get some 02:59:55.160 --> 03:00:11.560 of those some of those items square squared up with some dates I know in the 03:00:11.560 --> 03:00:17.760 matrix were sort of down to down to four items with a lot of to be determined the 03:00:17.760 --> 03:00:24.080 item the small area plans I know we will come come back to that the the 03:00:24.080 --> 03:00:28.800 discussion item on maintaining the upland habitat habitats long term I know 03:00:28.800 --> 03:00:33.800 Deborah sort of spoke to that we also talked to her earlier we're gonna put a 03:00:33.800 --> 03:00:38.840 date of May with respect to that that's when she's planning on having the 03:00:38.840 --> 03:00:43.680 criteria manual presented in front of us so we'll just include a sort of a longer 03:00:43.680 --> 03:00:47.480 work session to ensure all of the questions are addressed as part of that 03:00:47.480 --> 03:00:52.680 some of the other items will again we'll start working on I know the the urban 03:00:52.680 --> 03:00:57.860 forest master plan that's getting ready to be kicked off so I did speak to Gary 03:00:57.860 --> 03:01:03.200 he wanted it to get a little bit further down down the road as far as getting at 03:01:03.200 --> 03:01:07.760 least it kicked off and then come back with sort of an update with respect to 03:01:07.760 --> 03:01:13.480 that just wanted to update you on a couple items from council last night the 03:01:13.480 --> 03:01:19.840 the tree code was was adopted the accessory dwelling cabana if you recall 03:01:19.840 --> 03:01:28.520 that was also approved as was the car wash the the SGP for the auto hail place 03:01:28.520 --> 03:01:32.840 across from City Hall that item was postponed the applicant was not there so 03:01:32.840 --> 03:01:36.000 they postponed the item until the applicant could be there they had some 03:01:36.000 --> 03:01:41.120 questions and the Audra Heights rezoning I think we saw some images 03:01:41.120 --> 03:01:48.880 tonight of the phase one that phase two that townhouse the rezoning to to 03:01:48.880 --> 03:01:53.200 increase that lot coverage that was denied by council last night and so just 03:01:53.200 --> 03:01:57.840 wanted to give a quick update on those items I'm sorry Audra Heights is the one 03:01:57.840 --> 03:02:03.280 on the north side of order down there the loop it correct so where the town 03:02:03.280 --> 03:02:07.560 homes were it was sort of if you take where it would dead end if you just loop 03:02:07.560 --> 03:02:12.360 that around right on the other on the east side they were planning I think it 03:02:12.360 --> 03:02:19.960 was 89 townhomes okay that was that was denied so it was denied it was it was 03:02:19.960 --> 03:02:28.240 denied okay so really they're there they're gonna read regroup and they have 03:02:28.240 --> 03:02:31.360 they really have two choices they can continue you know they went through 03:02:31.360 --> 03:02:36.600 preliminary plot they can continue with their with their their move forward with 03:02:36.600 --> 03:02:41.260 the final plat which would be brought back to or in front of in front of the 03:02:41.260 --> 03:02:45.080 Commission and then when they're ready to build it would either be a smaller 03:02:45.080 --> 03:02:50.360 footprint or they could go up to three stories or they could replat to larger 03:02:50.360 --> 03:02:54.640 lots but but really their impetus for it for the change if you recall was to 03:02:54.640 --> 03:03:00.560 increase the lot coverage from 60% to 80% and just to give you an idea that 03:03:00.560 --> 03:03:08.160 those that townhome project those were built to code and at 60 percent lot 03:03:08.160 --> 03:03:12.880 coverage that gives you any idea of kind of what that what that looks like are 03:03:12.880 --> 03:03:17.280 they aware of the consolidation of zoning can't they just wait six months 03:03:17.280 --> 03:03:23.600 and do what they want are they aware I mean they are but we still had we had 03:03:23.600 --> 03:03:28.160 part of that not really that discussion last night we were looking to have it at 03:03:28.160 --> 03:03:34.520 the next DC RC as to when a request for again this will be a policy decision 03:03:34.520 --> 03:03:38.080 that will have to be made as we get through the DDC update and adoption of 03:03:38.080 --> 03:03:44.200 the map but when there is a rezoning request denied should we then just 03:03:44.200 --> 03:03:49.560 automatically up up zone them if they were just denied less than less than a 03:03:49.560 --> 03:03:53.600 month and so that was something that that we had brought up didn't get into 03:03:53.600 --> 03:03:59.800 that discussion but I I'm sure it will be part of a discussion at the next DC RC 03:03:59.800 --> 03:04:05.080 and ultimately as we as we move it through adoption great thanks for the 03:04:05.080 --> 03:04:10.200 update because your Alice thank you first Richard thank you for updating us 03:04:10.200 --> 03:04:14.000 on council I love that so let's keep that going yeah I think that's a great 03:04:14.000 --> 03:04:17.280 idea yeah because sometimes you know we can't always watch the meetings or we 03:04:17.280 --> 03:04:21.800 don't have time to go back and watch the video so yeah thank you for that I guess 03:04:21.800 --> 03:04:25.560 with regard I don't know if this is a matrix item probably not but maybe just 03:04:25.560 --> 03:04:30.920 more food for thought for staff so just like when we saw Ryan Rhodes a neglect 03:04:30.920 --> 03:04:36.280 on that road and Hickory Creek and and everything that's that going on there 03:04:36.280 --> 03:04:40.880 with development this same area that we discussed tonight isn't exactly that same 03:04:40.880 --> 03:04:44.960 maybe worse because there's so much density there we have had so much 03:04:44.960 --> 03:04:52.040 activity with regard to zoning changes and SUPs and development going on at all 03:04:52.040 --> 03:04:56.720 that intersection that high density and nothing is being done with those roads 03:04:56.720 --> 03:05:02.080 and it's not even on the city's plan anywhere right now so I know with Ryan 03:05:02.080 --> 03:05:06.720 somehow you got that kind of moving I think we kind of need that to happen 03:05:06.720 --> 03:05:12.400 here as well yeah and we had a we have a sort of a bi-weekly meeting with with 03:05:12.400 --> 03:05:16.000 with the city manager and one of things he wanted to make sure we start 03:05:16.000 --> 03:05:21.120 including in our reports is since traffic really both both here and at 03:05:21.120 --> 03:05:27.480 City Council is always the biggest item point of discussion is to start to 03:05:27.480 --> 03:05:33.240 include just just an it you know a section on planned traffic improvements 03:05:33.240 --> 03:05:37.560 and and just to have that as part of that as part of that decision tree if you 03:05:37.560 --> 03:05:42.480 will and so as we start to move forward with with more of these requests we'll 03:05:42.480 --> 03:05:47.440 start to start to include that I can tell you for that for the Ryan Road 03:05:47.440 --> 03:05:53.400 Hickory Creek area that that study that feasibility study has started in fact we 03:05:53.400 --> 03:05:57.960 met on Monday morning with the consultant team to really just look at 03:05:57.960 --> 03:06:03.520 land use in the area and and and sort of projected growth to really look at sort 03:06:03.520 --> 03:06:08.040 of the 2040 potential build out to ensure that that really that planning 03:06:08.040 --> 03:06:15.800 is truly being done in conjunction with those traffic improvements improving 03:06:15.800 --> 03:06:25.080 that the network overall but yes we'll we'll include that so I have a couple 03:06:25.080 --> 03:06:31.560 things one Margie stole my things but the update from council fantastic thank 03:06:31.560 --> 03:06:36.800 you that's really helpful because I'm always not always but I'm sometimes 03:06:36.800 --> 03:06:40.920 curious with whatever happened to the other thing is is whoever added the 03:06:40.920 --> 03:06:47.080 addresses to the feedback notices on our map was really helpful to know a lot of 03:06:47.080 --> 03:06:49.960 these individuals who spoke we already had their addresses and so it's easy to 03:06:49.960 --> 03:06:54.040 see exactly where they were identify the map so I appreciate that extra efforts 03:06:54.040 --> 03:06:57.640 where it's possible I'm sure some maps will get really cluttered but it worked 03:06:57.640 --> 03:07:00.280 tonight and I appreciate that the only thing that I wanted to bring up for the 03:07:00.280 --> 03:07:05.960 matrix or to talk about is carrying on the torch or Chairman strange is there 03:07:05.960 --> 03:07:10.080 any momentum on looking at the economics of a project when it comes to us and 03:07:10.080 --> 03:07:13.040 there's an article in the paper about our sales tax dollars decreasing and so I 03:07:13.040 --> 03:07:16.640 think it's relevant to understand the actual impact of the city of a 03:07:16.640 --> 03:07:20.920 development coming in whether it's mixed-use potential sales tax revenue or 03:07:20.920 --> 03:07:26.640 household property tax revenue so I'd love to continue that pushing the 03:07:26.640 --> 03:07:31.400 conversation to see when we're looking at projects the actual economics or 03:07:31.400 --> 03:07:36.440 projected economics that have to the city I think would help complete as we 03:07:36.440 --> 03:07:39.760 look at traffic and we're looking at like a complete picture of what our 03:07:39.760 --> 03:07:43.560 city's doing I think that would be helpful yeah in fact that that's another 03:07:43.560 --> 03:07:47.600 at right right now we were looking at including that with with rezoning since 03:07:47.600 --> 03:07:53.240 it really is requesting more than what's what's permitted by right what we have 03:07:53.240 --> 03:07:58.520 we have one being done now for a project that's actually for a voluntary 03:07:58.520 --> 03:08:03.920 annexation and so as part of what they submitted we had asked that that they 03:08:03.920 --> 03:08:10.080 they provide us with a a sort of benefit cost benefit or economic analysis so we 03:08:10.080 --> 03:08:14.640 can really start to understand what it would cost to serve if you will that 03:08:14.640 --> 03:08:20.760 really came out at a council meeting both it was a charge from from the from 03:08:20.760 --> 03:08:25.160 the city manager as well as in council brought that up if you remember the 03:08:25.160 --> 03:08:32.580 rezoning and SUP for the mobile home community off of off of McKinney and so 03:08:32.580 --> 03:08:36.200 those are those are things we're starting to work back in included and 03:08:36.200 --> 03:08:39.840 just coming up with it with those criteria I know finance has been 03:08:39.840 --> 03:08:45.160 working on sort of a model just trying to plug those numbers in so we can just 03:08:45.160 --> 03:08:51.160 better inform everyone so that that will be coming in also in the near future 03:08:51.160 --> 03:08:54.680 great fantastic anyone else want to add anything to the matrix or have any 03:08:54.680 --> 03:08:58.880 talking points all right with that so you know further discussion I'll close 03:08:58.880 --> 03:09:01.960 the meeting at 759