Mar 20, 2019 Planning and Zoning Commission on 2019-03-20 07:00 PM

Good afternoon and welcome to the work session for the planning and zoning Commission. We'll convene the meeting at 4.04 on March 20th 2019. The first order of business is to receive a report and hold a discussion about the Denton Development Code update and draft zoning map. Is this Ron today? Scott? I saw Scott on his way so he might be here in a few minutes. Sounds good. I'll turn over to you Ron. Okay, all right. Chair members of the Commission, members of staff, this is the last of the series of work sessions that we are scheduled to have on the DDC update. Both the code as well as the zoning map. What we're going to be discussing today, well let me let me step back a little bit. What we discussed at the last work session was subchapter four and five. We briefly introduced subchapter six which is the development standards. That will be what are we what we are going to focus today will be subchapter six, seven and eight. I've invited members of the technical staff, senior staff members with the city. They have played an important role in this particular subchapter, subchapter six because it deals with all of the different development requirements that affect the city. Those that are listed here are those sections that pertain to subchapter six as you can see here from land disturbing activities to ESA's to water, wastewater, drainage, landscaping, parking, solid waste. So I know you guys have a lot of questions and they are here to help answer those questions because I won't pretend to know all of it or any of it. So they're here. We also have present our outside council, Brendan McDonald here. If you have any legal matters I'm sure Jerry can handle it but Brenda is also available if you need her assistance. So with that I'm gonna go through some of the significant changes unless you have questions. If you do then we can address those. Again we have the staff that are that helped drafted the section or the subchapters and those sections that we just saw. So really open to the Commission. This is a work session. It's really to get your input. I want to set the stage of what's included in the subchapter but really we're here to help answer your questions, receive input, and hopefully we can get a draft that we all can buy into. So any questions with initial questions? Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. I sent staff a load of stuff. So we want to go down? Yes so just for the Commission's information, Larry was kind enough to send us some questions, comments in advance. I believe there were Monday and then another set yesterday. Those were forwarded to the staff that are present today. In fact there was some responses and I just didn't have any time to forward that to the Commission as a whole. Again we got them on Tuesday but anyways the fact is we have some comments that Larry provided. We can go through that if you like. That's to the purview of the Commission. Okay. Yeah Commissioner Beck. Thank you. Alright well let's start on page 307 under 6.3.2 applicability. B5. It says stockpiling and handling of earth material associated with commercial query and landfill operations licensed under the state. I drew a blank on that. I was hoping maybe we get a clearer meaning of what this is. Larry repeat one more time the section. Alright it's 6.2 6.3.2 applicability and it'd be B5 which is on actually yeah it's on 307. It says stock piling and handling of earth material. It's dealing with exemptions. Okay. It says stock piling and handling of earth material associated with commercial query and the landfill operations licensed under the state. That just came out of nowhere. It seemed like it wasn't even relevant to what everything else is. Sure. Can you clarify that? I'd like to invite Ms. Debra Villar to the podium to answer that question. Good evening Commissioner. The distinction between land disturbing activities covered in sub chapter 18 that now have been moved to 6.3. Those are activities related during a short period of time during construction that you have on beginning and an end. Land mining and query activities those are more long-term. Those are permanent activities and those are covered by a different permit through TCEQ. Land disturbing activities related to construction. They are under TXR 150,000 versus the mining and query that will be TXR 50,000 and those also require a multi sector general permit. So even though there will be moving dirt as you will be in a construction site they are longer term duration and that's why they are regulated. Okay. So they're exempted then? They're exempt from the TXR 150,000 but they're subject to the TXR 50,000. So they're regulated. It's just different permits. Okay. Page 308 6.3.5 general standards B. The site operator owner shall provide a copy of the sign notice of intent from the TCEQ for all sites that are for all sites that are larger than five acres or are less than five acres and part of a larger common plan of development that is larger than five acres. And my question was the same part. Less than five acres. Does this refer to plan development? It could. Okay. TCEQ pretty much define a larger common plan of development for projects that are completed in separate stages in separate phases and/or combination of other construction activities. It also said that when we look into a project we can use the planning, the zoning, blueprints, marketing plans and contracts, building permits, public notice for hearings as a way to define that a particular development was meant to be cohesive and planned together. So those are the criteria that TCEQ provides to define projects as a part of larger common development. Okay. And PD could be one of them. Okay. Because PDs are usually larger than five acres. Correct. Okay. And that's why I was. All right. Page 309. SWPPP required. D3. Yeah. D3C. Okay. Thanks. If a permittee sells one or more lots in a subdivision to a purchaser, the permittee may choose to not extend permit coverage to the purchaser under the permitted, not, what is it, NOI? NOI. Notice of intent. If this occurs, the permittee remains, the permittee remains the responsible party for only those lots for which the permittee retains day-to-day operational control. The purchaser then becomes responsible of the party for the lots is liable for violation of this chapter. Does the purchaser then have to obtain an NOI? Correct. Okay. What they can do, they can share the SWPPP, which is the maintenance and the oversight of the site. However, the responsibility, the legal responsibility relies on the owners. And therefore, each party must obtain an NOI. When somebody purchases a lot, then they will have to do something called notice of change submitted to TCEQ to say things have changed. This is the new person who is responsible for this lot. And then that new person gets an NOI. Who alerts the city, that the original owner? They're supposed to keep us abreast of all those changes in of notices. Yes, we get copies of that. And if they don't, then there's a section in there that deals with violations, right? Correct. When we go to, we do inspections every three weeks, one of the things that we verified is the SWPPP. And if anything has changed, that should have been reflected on that document as well. Most of the time, they will let us know and then we'd say, well, that, those are the additional steps that you have to follow. Okay. And it keeps mentioning the Environment Sensory Criteria Manual. Has that been completed or are we still waiting for this? Actually, we have a draft. We are going to the COE in April, our first meeting, that will start the process for vetting that Criteria Manual and gathering public input. After we are done with COE, then we will bring it to the Planning and Sorting Commission. But yes, we have a draft. Will that be done before or after we approve the new DDC? I believe the intent is just to get that within the six months. We are trying to get it done in close proximity. From the time we approve the DDC? By the time that we start enforcing the DDC, we should have a ESA Criteria Manual. Okay. Page 313. Footnote 818. Consolidated Draft. Cross-reference to be provided in the subsequent draft, referencing the Parkland dedication ordinance. My question is, will this be the final draft or do we anticipate one more preliminary draft before the final draft? Larry, are you referring to the Park Dedication Ordinance, that draft? Okay, for the footnote 818, which goes to... That would be, I'm sorry, I just read that footnote. That would be to... Parkland dedication, of course. That would be to the next draft. That what we would... The final draft? The final draft, yes. Okay. Page 314. 6.4.7(a)(3). Since gas well drilling and production within developed floodplains shall comply with Section 5.7.3, gas well drilling and production. Under 5.7.15, watershed permits for gas well departments. D.2B, page 299. It states, so I was reflecting back on what this says and then what this other section says, 5.7.15 says, within all areas except unstudied floodplains, if the stream is designed as a poor ESA, the designated width of the protective stream buffer shall be decreased by either 50% or to the limits of the floodway, whichever is greater. But in no instance shall the protective stream buffer width be decreased below 25 feet measured each direction from the centerline of the existing channel. And I noted that there is nothing noted here that the gas well operator will have to have an ESA assessment done to determine the poor status of the stream, of the repairing buffer, before they can proceed. Am I wrong in that? Is there...? They would have to have... Well, when gas well drilling is proposed within any ESAs, they need to get what is called a watershed protection permit, WPP. Okay. And as a part of that process, we do the field assessment. Okay. So, and all the conditions reflected on the WPP are based on the outcome of the field assessment. What we are trying to do for simplicity is combine the two processes in one application under the WPP instead of requiring site operators to apply for two separate applications. But the ESA field assessment is done. Okay. I just felt like there needed to be a wording added to the 5.7.15 D2B. That would show that. In other words, there's something in there when they read that since you're not left like I was wondering is there going to be an ESA field assessment done. So that's just a recommendation. We can, and I will let our plan to take the lead on that. Am I asking too much? Well, just anything within the gas well ordinance, we're not approaching that. So, understand that we're... Well, I mean, we're not asking to do something. We're managing the process. We'll ensure that the gas well operators are going to comply with our rules. Okay. So it would be a problem to add wording to the effect that the field assessment would be done. I guess is my question. Yeah. I think at this point in time that we're not touching the gas well ordinance. That was the charge of our consultant and legal staff and we're gonna stay on that position currently unless council directs us to do otherwise. Okay. I'll get with you later because I don't understand why that there's that barrier there but let's not drag it out here. Okay. Thank you. All right. Page 317. Under the pairing buffer and water related habitat, 6.4.8A9. Permitted uses and activities at states. Measures to remove or abate nuisances or other violation of state statute administrative rule on municipal code of ordinances. And I was wondering if we could cite some examples and say such as but not limited to and insert some examples. Typically you don't want to do that in the code of ordinances. The purpose of this is to be brought and to allow for the possibility that there could be something that maybe wasn't anticipated at the time this was written but the point is that if there is a state statute or a administrative rule or maybe even a subsequent ordinance change that it would it would be taken into account here if it if it intervenes and and gives meaning here that's what is going to be applied. So the the reason why you don't really want to do that is because over time ordinance provisions change as do statutes and sometimes if you put something in there and it does change and somebody isn't sharp enough to catch it and flag it as something that needs to be changed it can give somebody an entirely wrong meaning and here it's just really not necessary to give an example in order to leave open the possibility that there could be such a law. Okay. Okay on the same page 317 I guess under permitted uses a 1. Residential development shall be designed to retain a contiguous 50% tree canopy which shall remain predominantly in its natural state and my question is will this remaining contiguous 50% tree tree canopy then be subject to the 70% tree removal we discussed in the conservation landscape code I think in our last PNC. Larry did you say 317 and just to clarify. Yeah it was 317A1. A1 okay that's regarding the public habitats. Right correct and that language actually has changed slightly so if as part of the ordinance that was approved by council last night so so the version of the ESA and tree and landscape that's in this version I think was part of that February February draft that was circulated and so the language the language has changed in here slightly where it references instead of saying shall remain predominantly in its natural state it now reads residential development shall be designed to retain a contiguous 50% of the area defined as upland habitat which shall remain in its natural state and so if it's not then it falls into that it falls out of it falls into I'm sorry the development impact area and it would be subject to preservation and and mitigation. Okay which means I could remove up to 70% of that, is that right? They could in theory yes. Okay. On that very same question. Commissioner Sanchez. Okay on the next question says preservation of upland habitat contiguous to forcing instead of preservation the word management it shouldn't we have because we and I've brought that up before if we just preserve it we're gonna lose it but there has to be some type of management on that so I was wondering if that preservation could be my idea is just the word preservation means okay we're gonna stick it here and it's not going to be touched management means we're gonna take care of it and we're gonna continue for keep managing for till things change so and also at the bottom where you have select pruning conducted by or under the supervision what could we add something like four is allow mowing in those areas because you also want to when we talk about upload when we're talking about cross inverse habitat we're not just talking about trees we're talking about the understory also so it's just not pruning trees but we also should be working looking at the habitat and trying to bring bring back some of those that understory which would be maybe some of your Indian grass little bluestem big bluestem some of those that some of those species that are relevant in the upland habitat but where it seems like we're just concentrating on the on the on the upper store not the understory and and and I might ask that so when we receive the the updated version of this when we ultimately PNZ passed the landscape and conservation ordinance councils passed that that language is some of this may or may not change I don't know that okay the second piece to that is is that ultimately we're hopeful to get this draft code or the code through PNZ and council both this code as well as the landscape and conservation code will really be under this kind of six-month window that we have an opportunity to kind of test and feel and if we have any comments to come back to that but because that section or this section has just recently been passed I'm just recommending that we we don't make any changes okay let me just add on to the the first question that you added is that you're talking about changing preservation to management I think it's fair to talk about preservation in this context because they're talking about encouragement and so even if you even if you have management within that context it's still fair to talk about you know encouraging preservation where appropriate and so I think with the wording the sentence is not it really at odds with the point that you're making it supplements the point okay well I guess I'm assuming it's the preservation is going to happen so now once the preservation is happening okay now let's do take it one step further and let's manage it yes please I would like to bring to your attention item number four the item right behind that talks about enhancement of restoration projects as approved by the director of environmental services is a permitted activity so in those cases where the property owner is interested in actually improving the habit that and doing some sort of restoration work either by mowing the grasses or by clipping the treatment at the canopy to allow the penetration of light into the forested area all those are permitted activities right now so nothing prevents somebody for managing for the improvement of the habitat because that is deemed as a permitted activity so would they just have to get a permit from in order to do it probably we don't have a permit process per se they just have to contact us and we will you know lead them through the process they would probably have to submit a some sort of description of the type of work that will be done for what purposes and so on and if that is conducive to the restoration enhancement the health of the habitat we will approve it and they'd have to demonstrate if I may to that demonstrate that they are a certified member of the International Society of correct if they're going to trim the canopy yes okay just for trimming yes okay Mr. back back to you thank you page 320 footnote 827 related to on-site detention facility states city staff is considering if detention facility should be publicly dedicated or whether all should be privately maintained future revisions this section may be included pending these discussions would cause and my question is would cause to be prohibited if this city assume its responsibility on all just two facets to that and that's where it is that it speaks city staffs considering if detention facility should be publicly dedicated so there may be private and there may be public and we're working through that right now as to that determination okay thanks continuing page 324 floodways j4 says developments discharging stormwater runoff into a floodway shall provide supplemental vegetation on-site and off-site areas and public easements when necessary to preserve or restore any disruption to the natural site and the footnote for this 850 down at the bottom ask how does this relate to other parts of the code where vegetation is prohibited in drainage areas should we not remove blanket should we not remove blanket prohibitions on vegetation in these areas and I'm thinking perhaps if if it's not land disruptive to the natural flow is that and and again I think that engineering is working through those components there's some conversations that are taking place on types of drainage okay so and I think between engineering and environmental services that that conversation we'll get some feedback on that later right okay thank you anybody else want to jump in any time they want to just go right again yours yours okay page 332 6.6 dot 7g easement requirements 6.6 dot 7 g easement requirements says if utility inspection or repair or reconstruction is necessary any pavement structure or improvement damage within a dedicated utility utility easement shall not be the responsibility of the city for any repairs but shall be the sole responsibility of the owner and I know with it and I guess I'm asking with the exception of what's listed in below j 1 2 & 3 but it says the following under typically allowed to be installed within public utility water sewer easements and I'm sorry Commissioner back what is your question on that okay well it's stating that if utility inspection repair reconstruction is necessary any payment structure improvement damage within dedicated utility it shall not be the responsibility of the city for any repairs but shall be the sole responsibility of the owner but then down here on j 1 2 & 3 it talks about drive approaches and parking lots if they come in and damage somebody's driveway it's up to the owner to repair the driveway no I think it's saying two different things one is is that it's allowed to be installed within that gives the authority to install something within this other is stating if in fact there is it's not the responsibility of the city for the repairs but the person owns the property even though the city not it's not suggesting that if this city necessarily okay it that reads like it does so to me I guess good afternoon Frank Pugsley water utilities director and to answer your question directly yes if there's a driveway or landscaping grass in one of our easements and we damage it by utility installation or repair then we do repair those items okay as a routine practice and I guess what I was yeah I think the answer to question yes this is going to be like in a residential neighborhood correct okay okay right the next ones for me to so I'm gonna hang out okay on page no that may be all for you 339 330 okay you got it okay under private water systems by by allowing this to occur under the specified conditions how does this address the issue of wastewater will they be tied into wastewater treatment systems addressed on page 342 item number six so what this is intended to cover for private water systems and private wastewater treatment systems are generally for developments that may be far out in the ETJ where we don't have utility service and it's cost-prohibitive for those developments to make those improvements but there are cases where we may have water utilities in the vicinity but not wastewater or vice versa so there may be a system on a private water well system it's also on public Denton sewer and there may be a situation where they're on city of Denton wastewater service and have well the other way around they may be on private wastewater treatment and have city of Denton water supplied so it could be an either or or both okay does that does that answer that did I answer that appropriately or enough for that okay I want to make sure I covered it thank you I appreciate you having in front of you and ready to answer me on page 346 6.6 point 17 a dot three under plans and specifications 6.6 6.6 point 17 6.6 17 begins on 343 all right under plans and specifications that is not even there 16.6 point 17 is plans and specifications okay so a three landscaping screen buffering and tree standards for electric station substations and switch stations shall be pursuant section 6.6 okay and I think there was just an error there should that be shall be pursuant to 16 point 13 points it because there is no six point 12 six and I would just and I think some of this is subject to change again when we get into those nope it's a great yep appreciate that on page 349 B it mentions grass swells this may get answered in the downloaded by the grasses in her landscape plant list in the site design for type criteria manual mainly lower maintenance grasses in other words if they're requiring grass swells are we requiring grasses that are low water maintenance Debra do you have an answer to that by chance I know it references I swim and I don't know if I swim has a specific type I swim doesn't have a specific list of plans but I would like to bring to your attention that the city of them have a native plant list that include grasses and those are the ones that we recommend to be to be used as long as they can tolerate some inundation because as again they will be in that in contact with water for some period of time so when somebody provide a landscape plan one of the things that we look into it is are they suitable for the functions that they're being proposed they do have to water it for a period of time and then like after two or three years it's supposed to take on its own well you're talking about the establishment part and it goes back especially if there are trees or something like that where they're offering as a landscape they those are subject to replacement if those vegetative materials they don't do well so when we look into any stone water controls we look into how suitable that plan is to withstand the amount of water that they would be dealing with and anything that is outside the stone water controls we have the native plan list for the city of Denton native to the Denton County specific to that in County so they can always use that type of that list for as a resource okay thanks okay page 352 under permits enforcement routes item I three and if I make Commissioner Beck this is in that landscape screening buffering fences we're probably going to be in that same place just as an FYI because I think this is in that same piece is it not okay what she was talking about if they die within a certain period of time no the what Scott was saying is that the ordinance that was passed yesterday okay unless you have a question we can answer we can answer that but if we're thinking of changing anything it would have to you be later okay all right and item J under the same page at the bottom there it states in instances where easements encourage and again this is just a correction in instances where easements encumbrances physical traits or life safety requirements limit the ability to plant the required trees needed to meet the minimum tree canopy coverage and applicants may pay into the tree fund as an alternative and I was wondering if we couldn't reword that shall pay into the tree no all right we'll be back right back in the same place okay we've just passed that and I will also say probably the next couple of items page 358 355 358 and I think maybe we can jump to 360 because all of those are parking landscape and trees so okay I'll just also point out that the word shall is inconsistent with the concept of it being an alternative you know shall is generally regarded as mandatory as you have no other option whereas alternative is indicated that there is another option was there a heading quote-unquote alternative there that we were dealing with in the in the in the current the version that was adopted last night that section was actually moved and so there is a section titled alternative relief for landscape tree canopy and buffer requirements and there's two choices you can either go through an alternative landscape plan or you can do this the payment in lieu okay under these circumstances okay and then page 360 I misspoke because the signage for the tree removal is not going to be there so that's it that's a no I was talking with Richard about this earlier okay a little concerned about that I was wondering if part of that couldn't be reconsidered is that locked in now it's we've just passed an ordinance through City Council and and that piece has been in our code for years we've never we've never enforced it but but again we just passed that ordinance so we're not gonna recommend any changes to the landscape section until we get the entirety of the code out there and and I think that it was quite interactive with council last night to the point of making any changes that that we're gonna pretty much stick to that because I think that's where council is we certainly will take this in will capture the comment and as we go through the process of evaluating this we can take it into consideration okay my concern was here there's going to be a lot of areas probably where okay the signage it's not there it's not gonna be that big a deal we're definitely gonna run into areas where there are protected trees it should be protected if they're going to be taken down and mitigating there's going to be neighborhoods where they'll be up in arms if they weren't notified and didn't have a chance to protest and I understand the developers don't want to do no it really came from actually our one of our council members to the point that putting a sign up gives the neighbors a false sense that they have a say and whether those trees could be removed or not so the sign is just misleading it's telling someone that that someone is going to try to go through what our legal process is to do that and the neighbors don't really necessarily have a say as to whether the trees stay or removed so that was the catalyst for it and I'm happy to speak to you offline on it okay all right page 361 and 362 there's two items here item D and item E P Larry those those are also in the landscape looking at the list that you provided staff the next one that's not in under landscaping would be page 373 where you're talking about access and circulation okay page 373 6.8.3 a six access and circulation traffic calming measures where future cut-through traffic is likely is this a recommendation or is it going to be required the plan is required and this is one of the elements that would be included within the plan okay so calming devices street calming devices would be where future cut-through traffic is likely so it's again is a required part of the plan if in fact it would be applicable okay okay page three seven five six point eight point three point a six yep sorry page three seventy five six point eight point six C to a as part of the city's effort to encourage safety can we require street signs and it's just a suggestion when we're building a new development to educate the public because I mean there's there's a lot of people out there that you know how come there's so many bikes on the streets they shouldn't be allowed to we know that it should be I was just something you to consider okay let me throw it out there and then we'll move on if we could put share the road signs you know the share road signs with the bike on it in a new development it's on a arterial collector's street Larry or Commissioner Beck the only way that can happen would be as part of a bike plan where it's identified under bike planning and if it is implemented and constructed to fit a bike or didn't be identified then a sign will be and painted markings will be included but it can't be where it is requested it has to be okay consistent with the bike plan it was I was just throwing that out there anyways thanks all right this one was a little confusing for me on page 376 377 6.8.7 6.8.7 a for if the street is open when proposed to serve as a divided arterial street and the development is required to install half of the arterial street then the curb and gutter shall be provided on both sides of the street so as to provide the curve for the future meeting of the arterial street okay that sounds to me like we're gonna build half the street with the curb and gutter on one side and then there's gonna be what dirt there but there's gonna be a curb and gutter am I reading am I misreading that no it would it would be a complete half of the street so where it is that it's a divided and divided arterial right so they would build half of the street so if it was going to be a four lane two lanes each side of a divided they would be building potentially the two lanes on one half of that street and just so happens the pre tam is here and he would be happy to address let's not pull him into something he's gonna be hit with that's all right I was asking yeah there's pastry said 76 77 6.8 point seven point a for the way it's worded there says is the street is ultimately proposed to serve as a divided arterial street and the development is required to install half of the arterial street and the curb and gutter shall provide it on both sides of the street so as to provide the curve for the future meaning of the arterial street and it the way what went through my mind is we're gonna build one half of the curb and gutter on one side but we're not gonna build the other half street but we're gonna put the curb and gutter over there is that no so so the way it read this pre temptation of traffic in here for the city the way it is set up at the other side of the curb and gutter that's away from the development is the curb for the median so that would be the median in in the middle okay and the rest of it will be on the other do we need change the wording so stupid people like me can pick no I'm gonna pause real fast Christian Sanchez had a question and let him jump in under a street connect connectivity 374 that's one of being one of my concerns is on see number two it says street systems for each development shall connect with existing and proposed and just and anticipated streets and that's one one of the things we did back in a couple with meetings ago though I remember there was an area back on Ryan and there was an anticipated street that had already been identified that this was going to go through and and we dropped that and my question is are we how important is that quest to me it's very important that we continue to look at connectivity between the neighborhoods because we build we build little enclaves you know the developer comes in puts a little enclave and then nobody wants the neighbors but we don't want these people to come through our neighborhood you know and we hear that time and time again and I'd like to just make a comment on that is that we need to start looking that people need to go through other neighborhoods instead of just when people come up to us and say hey we don't want them to come this we don't want that neighborhood people could start coming through us it's going to increase the neighborhood traffic and I guess I just want to make a comment on that because that was one thing that we had a couple of weeks a couple of meetings back is it was planned and just because the people didn't want it all of a sudden we decided okay we're not going to do this we'll just they'll have to go get back on Ryan and come back to the next neighborhood rather than coming through there so I guess Mike it's just a comment is if this is what we're saying we need to look at this more serious and not just go by what people want don't come into our neighborhood and look at that we need to connect the city all the streets so that people look at the city as not this is my little enclave but rather this is our city and I think I see that a lot in a lot of meetings that we have don't come into my neighborhood but it's not your neighborhood it's our city rather than correct so there are a couple things here one of the important ones is definitely we will look at collector connections through the neighborhoods and subdivisions so we want the collectors to collect all the traffic from different subdivisions and they will across subdivisions to connect to the arterial so yes we're looking at collectors but as well as we're looking at residential streets that make sense where to connect and there are several new developments that we're looking at is we're asking asking the developer to have those step outs and connections that way it becomes a cohesive network and it makes sure that our circulation system is planned to channel that traffic to the appropriate street system so right we're looking at them on a case-by-case basis but definitely want the connections to be made and one more you know it's under well I didn't find it I was wondering we didn't address on this anything about roundabouts are we gonna even address anything like that I think it's very important I mean this is my opinion it's something that you know we keep talking about traffic how you know we keep getting all these you know traffic keeps getting worse but then we had somebody here last week talk about how roundabouts actually help traffic move traffic yet we don't talk about it we want to keep doing red lights green lights you know so I'm getting some different so as far as roundabouts we are moving into a realm of there will be an intersection analysis to determine it what type of control is necessary it could start from stop signs to go into signals so every arterial every collector intersection will be reviewed to see if it's appropriate for a roundabout and that becomes part of our toolbox or when we're talking to developers as well as when we're looking at our own capital projects so should that be addressed here we can definitely add something to that effect pretty time can you just clarify is roundabouts covered in the transportation criteria manual it is part it is covered as mentioned is described how in the transportation criteria manual okay I guess I didn't see well the way we really set this up is to is to make the mandatory standards that are never going to change in here and address the design standards in the criteria okay okay so you know staff never knows when you know like for example you were talking about the situation with connectivity or what have you obviously the City Council believed that it was important to not provide connectivity there but you watch your code to be written in such a way that it would it would allow for either option address that as a matter of design to bring forward and still provide the option for it to go either way I think Jerry makes a good point just as a reminder that that the code the code is one part of what we use so as our standards we have water wastewater criteria manuals you know the transportation any number of other complementary guides that go along with this and and I do want to point out as some of our standards and requirements keep on changing the criteria manuals are updated on an annual basis so and that's much more relative to what's happening around us as we move forward with some of the education pieces and people become more aware subdivisions or developers come in with more plans for roundabouts then we will continue to update that component but this is pretty much as Jerry pointed out this is overall big picture applies to everyone and then the criteria specific that we can look into per as developments come in you get a commissioner Mr. back here pretend stay with us on this next one here on page 382 h 6.8 point 9 h 1 says driveway access to single and it's talking about collector streets access to collector streets driveway access to single-family detached or duplex duplex building units is not permitted is that right for yes for collector streets collectors are typically where all the residential streets coming in feed so it's more of a step up from residential use where you do not want the primary function of that is to just channelize traffic out of the neighborhood it's not for people to get out of their houses the residential streets are defined or classified for people to get out of their driveways but collectors are where some of these residential streets meet and that's a bigger road to connect to an arterial so that's the way that functional classification is set do we have situations where homes are on collector streets now and yes well how about like Teasley where it goes alongside South Lakes Park you don't have any of those homes that are alongside Teasley exiting their driveways directly on to Teasley you have them going on to some neighborhood streets and then follow the neighborhood streets and then get on to Teasley from that neighborhood street but on Hobson there's single-family homes that right they are attached to a collector street okay Hobson's a collector street right right okay how does that work retroactively I mean that is what it is yes when we go back and when Hobson will be looked at for widening improvement CIB project we will find ways to address that situation okay thanks let me read this one just to make sure okay this is one that seems redundant to me on page 391 just for clarity sake 391 6.9 6.9.2 a - what distinguishes little a III the square footage of non-residential building is expanded or enlarged by more than 50% from BII the square footage of non-residential building is expanded or large by between 10 to 15 percent what you're almost saying the same thing but you're throwing in a little exception there so what am I missing here sorry Commissioner back to a refers to the entire site when it exceeds 50 percent by more than 50 percent where it's between 10 and 15 it is just applied to the area that is being expanded okay so again the requirement for parking applies to new primary structure that is constructed an existing primary structure that is relocated on a lot so that's when parking would be requirement be required however expansion and enlargement is what we're referring to right in any or all expansion or enlargement shall be considered if they fall under the following categories if there is a need for expansion of a property the entire site shall comply with this section the parking requirements when now I'm gonna go to a three the square footage of the non-residential building is expanded by more than 50% so if you expand your building by more than 50% you're gonna have to comply with the parking requirements for the entire site okay if it's between 10 and 50 10 and 50% it would only just apply to that the portion of the site being expanded and or improved shall comply with the parking requirements okay and it's cumulative over two year period to avoid incremental changes so if you do 25 percent one year and you think okay I'm gonna get it another 25 percent or 30 the next year it would then bring it up so we're still good okay still require it all right hang on a second okay page three I did something wrong 393 yeah but I meant six and 83 c5 I think yeah so it's actually at the top of 393 right on the top of page 393 calculations and I'm not sure I understand why structured parking underground parking and parking within above or beneath the building it serves are not counted towards the maximum parking requirement the the underground and the parking above a building means that they're not really taking up any land area because the building already is there so that would make sense that it wouldn't count towards the parking maximum again we have anything outside the footprint of the building that's what you're talking right and then the question I'm pausing is the structured parking that is obviously if that's not part of a building right that takes up area and why won't we count then and that's a good okay okay so if the structure parking is below or above and that thing that's what just Scott just clarified okay again if it doesn't if it if it's within the building footprint we will not count it because it's already taken up by that okay and just as we talked about that we have a minimum and we have a maximum and one of that significant changes is that we're in we're allowing a hundred and twenty five percent I guess another twenty five percent to be the maximum so you can you can provide the minimum if you want to exceed that by twenty five percent you can right so it's it's different from what we currently have where it's the men in the max is the required parking oh we still have and then you could have another 500 underground okay page 394 table 698 required all-street parking as it refers to four spaces for duplexes is this four spaces for each duplex dwelling unit or two for each to give the entire duplex dwelling unit four spaces there's a dwelling unit is the duplex duplex is to you is that two dwelling units mm-hmm okay so one dwelling unit half of that duplex in other words can have four spaces we were just going through because I'm looking at the public draft on the initial adoption draft some some things have already been updated we don't have the initial adoption draft out there and that is that is this draft that was corrected that's what you have the public draft is out there just yeah it's this version with some corrections with some I'm sorry what was it so yeah the table it says duplexes that can have four spaces per dwelling unit not including ten apart so are we talking about a total a total okay so each half of the duplex and can have up to four just like a house correct there was the there's a provision and I think it carried forward where if it's in a in an infill area and and primary that the area with the surrounding area primarily has two then you're able to you're able to reduce that okay and we're talking about all street parking here correct okay okay okay so on the same table on page 395 does the minimum number of parking spaces for elderly housing take into consideration staff parking could not you know I don't see a lot of elderly housing units where each resident is gonna have a car so it's are they taking staff parking into consideration when they create that figure especially retirement well I'm honestly rest homes yes nursing and convalescent homes I wouldn't think each resident would have a car so and regardless of that I guess what I'm asking is was staff obviously you're gonna have probably more staff vehicles then you're gonna have resident vehicles so when okay on the elderly housing especially when we're talking about rest homes and nursing convalescent home we're probably talking about the people are gonna have cars they're not necessarily gonna be the residents I'm thinking so when this figure what is it three per patient beds did we count in staff parking I believe it is in that it's included in that number I don't yeah commissioner back by if I can try to answer that question sure it's really it's a carryover from our current code as you can see where the second column or the third column it carries over it's one space per three bedrooms the question is does account account for employee my understanding that it does because of the amount and what use it is that's all thank you of course thanks for those questions commissioner is there other questions from the Commission and then Ron if you have some over you said you had some like highlight yes yes if there's no other questions we can kind of go over some of the significant changes it's not going to be a third page turn that is it's just gonna be a really high level again I just want to express that we have some staff members here that represent saw ways D me fire probably missing a few people here so again here's an opportunity if you have any questions for them I encourage that however there is none I can certainly could proceed with those significant changes and that's the other questions so again what we're talking about today is subchapters six seven and eight some of the significant changes is again we consolidated all of the sub chapters as you all know we've got 24 sub chapters currently and we've so we've narrowed down to eight and so sub chapter six contains the majority of them and this is why it's such an important sub chapter to me one of the other things that we looked at is try to be more flexible through provisions of options and menu based standards and you saw that as part of the landscape ordinance there are points in buffer sorry landscaping and buffer points associated with that another important change or update we want to make sure that we address compatibility we've we've increased that as far as standards a lot of procedures that you normally saw or see in the sub chapters existing have been relocated to chapter 2 but also included in the transportation criteria manual that Debra mentioned pretem as referenced we are also working on a site plan criteria manual as well so we want to make sure that what's in the code is requirements while the criteria manuals are more design standards per se which can be amended a lot easier than than if we were to do a full-blown code amendment infill and redevelopment standards those are something that we heard a lot from the community we hear a lot from development but also from the general public as well so we've added more we've actually removed the infill special purpose district it no longer exists so we have embedded a lot of those standards in the stamp the site design standards so that again anyone that wants to develop within an infill redevelop property they are more able to let me see here updated expansion applicability table I know that when Clarion was here they talked about that a little bit so that's not going to go away we have a different version of that and that is actually included in the draft so that is going to be continued conservation and landscape ordinance that we already talked about that that was adopted last night there was an effective I'm sorry an adoption date of last night and an effective date of October 1st so I don't know if you have any questions either Richard or Haley can can clarify or maybe Scott what does that mean there's an applicant get to use the current code and then choose to apply use the other code that's that's something that I believe that was the intent is to have that flexibility so is that clear as far as how that is going to proceed we're looking at that we talked about buffer standards we have again as part of the landscape and conservation code a development impact area I know Richard had talked about that in his presentation so if you all have any questions please ask but I think that was covered well where we're also looking at how we address walls and fences I know with the DC RC we talked with that in length I think it was two and a half days is what was referred to as the discussion on fences so we've spent a lot of time on that we incorporated the parking requirements that was approved back in May of last year and again what I mentioned earlier regarding the maximum it's no longer your min and your max is the same rather if you meet the minimum you're good if you choose to extend that and want more parking we're allowing that 25% above and I think that would help in when we when we see again for example ADP's right we won't get those because there's the flexibility built in here to allow that it's not saying that they will go there but at least they have the option and that's the theme that works we're trying to provide here is options and flexibility but still meeting the standards that we really want to have let's see here as far as the subdivision standards I'm gonna go on to sub chapter 7 if nobody else has any questions on sub chapter 6 again sub chapter 6 has lighting and has solid waste so just want to make sure that you know this is the opportunity if you have any questions on those standards we're able to answer those today if not we'll move on to subdivision okay there's no questions on 6 we're gonna move on to 7 let's go for it okay so sub chapter 7 is your subdivision regulation standards your platting what's when a plat is required what the design requirements and subdivision improvements are required as part of that platting so a lot of again what we're trying to do is trying to streamline or clean up and clear up some of the requirements we relocate a lot of the administrative administration and procedure section to chapter 2 sub chapter 2 a lot of the information again that's in there today is either going into a criteria manual or referenced as part of the code of ordinances the use or the applicability within the ETJ that has been enhanced a couple of new options for developers or maybe more refined options that is is gated community cluster development and autocorps so I think everybody knows what gated communities are we've got a couple examples that we have in the city cluster development does anybody have any question that cluster development the concept essentially you have a minimum lot size for each lot in a in a zoning district if you want to cluster the development to preserve some open space you're able to and actually reduce your lot minimum to accomplish that so for example nr3 the minimum let's use nr2 for example nr2 has a minimum lot area of 16,000 if you want to consolidate or cluster that development and have smaller watch you can and the option there is to go as low as I believe is 2,500 which is is a fairly low I mean square footage however by doing that you're saying you're gonna preserve or conserve the other area within that development for open space so that's a positive portion of cluster development and I believe there is an exhibit that was shown by Clarion and certainly is further explained in the code so I just want to make sure that we understand what cluster development and that's one of I think the goals of the den plan 2030 is to offer that so that we can reserve and preserve conserve some of the more rural areas that are within the periphery of the city Ron I have a question about that I was speaking to a local developer and he had seen the exhibit by Clarion with the reconstruction of the lots and I have to apologize for my ignorance but he expressed some concern that the design criteria wouldn't fully allow for the full thought process of the cluster development to actually come to fruition so how does the city look at or can you tell me about the alignment with the design criteria manual supporting the actual development of cluster development because to his concern and I would echo it is we have the idea of cluster development but the design standards prevent it from actually looking and coming to life as we had hopes and I just have to clarify are we talking about block length or I mean because to talk about road curvature and the designs of roads through a development like that it and maybe that illustration probably was just that an illustration however they still have to meet the subdivision requirements the block length the curvature all of the access requirements so a development under for example the r3 maybe let's let's go a little further r6 is believe it's 6,000 square feet so I know it's it's it's doable because we have it they just have to meet the requirements and I apologize I don't know what said person to reference but you can you can do that as part of a cluster development it should not prevent you from doing it great yes thank you okay okay I think if we're done with sub chapter 7 we can move on to sub chapter 8 unless you have any questions all right last sub chapter and this is it this is all this is this is the chance that you're gonna get definitions which is I believe another important sub chapter because it holds a lot of what we often look for right because well what is what is autocor what is cluster development a lot of that is in this sub chapter we want to make sure that this sub chapter is reviewed and it's is is there for us to use for example all the list of uses that's in sub chapter 5 are all in the definition they have their definition in here in the current code there was definitions in several sub chapters and you didn't know which one to look at or how where would be the hope is that all of it is in one step chapter which it is and so you can just go straight to sub chapter 8 to identify or to find that definition and that's that's what we've done here so they're listed alphabetically ordered and it's a it's a long list but it's an exhaustive list that we hope would help in the development review process so you've all looked at the definitions right we're all just joking to be honest we look at it too and we find that we're either missing one or sometimes it's something that we didn't think about so we are continually looking at those definitions to make sure that we have all of them so that when we look for it we have it available mr. Beck thanks chair I thought did a good job every time I came across the term that I didn't understand I pretty much found it in definition so I thought you did a good job I think I sent you a note though where you had and I can't I'll get back to you on it but it was a definition that was an indefinition so I'll find it okay well no any thank you for that and again any input that you all can provide feedback we appreciate it because again we want to make sure when we get this to the finish line we want it to be as close to final draft as possible that's Ron I do have one question that it's not really relevant to so chapter 8 but is that the final draft that's electronically available actually leveraged PDFs ability to hyperlink so we can click words back to the definition is that is that part of the process that Clarion's adding the navigability I think the I think that's a possibility I think what we were asked to do was the table of contents I know one point to we talked about just hovering over a word where it where you wouldn't have to necessarily click click over but it would just pop I think that's part of the user-friendly you know theme I think we can do that I know initially they had set it up for just the the table content so you can click on it you can just go straight to it but as far as individual words that may be a little bit too much but we can certainly identify some that we know we should be linking to the definition section sure yeah well you think of the use table if you just had the very beginning you know connection back to the use I think that's a great idea I think even with the definition but also like say for example the use specific standards you can click on it you don't have to or however you get to it great any questions for sub chapter eight okay last to the last slide one and then my questions last slide as far as the development code update on March 29th we're going to publish a final adoption draft and that is going to include the comments we received today there is the initial adoption draft that's online now we are continually updating the draft that's going to be updated again on March 29th it's not this Friday but the Friday next it's going to be there for the general public in preparation of our April 10th our meeting are playing zoning Commission public hearing we're set to have a public hearing on this item on April 10th we've already set that in stage by publishing and sending out mailings to property owners so we're set on April 10th for planning zoning Commission and April 23rd for City Council pressure back are you done now I'm done okay I just wanted to throw I didn't want to interrupt you you wanted to continue I think we're all aware and if I this isn't the appropriate time or forum to ask this and somebody let me know this will probably go to you Jerry we're aware of an individual that's concerned about how their area was on and want to know if there was an appeal process so is that something we can discuss here is there should we put this off well that's what the public hearing process is for is for people to you know voice their concerns and if they if they have anything that they want to bring up the staff they certainly can it beforehand well I guess question is it's being asked is there an appeal process for somebody who doesn't like what they were zone if they get zoned the they will just have to ask to rezone it so it's it I mean it's important to attend to this issue and make sure that your property gets correctly zoned and and to let staff know if there's a problem and attend to public hearings and make sure your voice is known okay it just seems like it would be better to get it straightened out now before we finalize absolutely yeah that's why I'm saying you know contact staff let the staff know if if if if anybody sees a problem let the staff know any individual member of the public well I mean I'll leave it to Ron and Scott as far as the operational process is concerned but you know the the concept is is well I'll put it this way from from from the legal department's perspective we don't really care what process they use you know the the idea is that I'm sure that they will have a process for which they will accept input from the public and suggestions that they may be zoned in appropriately okay so if I can just chime in a little bit obviously this is a City Council approval of a development code or update or code amendment however you want to reference it any zoning map update in any decision by City Council my understanding is is final so as Jerry mentioned any appeal needs to be done before we lock that should be done before or rezone the property go through the rezoning and like you said we don't want to do that so as Jerry mentioned we want to encourage people to come to the public hearing and I believe the gentleman that or the person you're referring to has done that has come to us and I've advised and encouraged said person to attend the public hearing to voice his opinion and if I if I might add that actually and I've heard Ron say to come before PNZ and council to express their their their opinion and their views Chris Ross thank you chair yeah just to offer my opinion on this and the email you're speaking of Commissioner Burke I mean appeal keeps being used except nothing's been adopted so you can't really appeal something that's not really done so all we have right now is public hearings and that's I mean that is the right forum for him to express his concerns certainly staff is open to meeting anytime and then all of the public hearings but I mean you can't appeal something that's not adopted I think that's a term that's being used that's making things confusing okay with as long as that direction gets back to that individual that if you want to forward that email along I'll make certain that it does okay okay thanks thank you all right that's all I have thank you so much for your patience and your review of the code I appreciate all the hard work that you've done and the next time you'll see the draft will be published again on March 29th and as we prepare for the public hearing we will make sure that we give you ample time to have the documents in advance as again we get ready for the next phase of this project Kishore Ellis thank you chair Ron is there still an opportunity to email anything yes ma'am from until what's the date April 23rd okay until till city can't nope sorry for I'm sorry I thought you were referring to comments from the public for for you all comments from us from you all would be you know before April 10th you know so we can get your response and as a citizen you have up until City Council as well got it thank you good clarification thank you Ron so much for your presentation your hard work on this thank you next item for business tonight is the clarification of the agenda items the first thing we have is minutes is there any questions we were given an update to minutes for the February 20th make sure everyone has a copy of that thank you any questions on the 20th or 27th meeting minutes great there is some clarification I just want to invite Haley is Haley yeah we got an updated plaque can you provide us context document is for FP 18 18 their residence is at razor ranch the only change from the copy you originally received in your backup you may have noticed there were some kind of irregular lots HOA lots proposed in the right-of-way originally on Beaumont after meeting with the city engineer the the developer determined that they can just make those medians within the right-of-way and through a maintenance agreement can still landscape those the way they want to so those HOA lots have been removed from where they were shown here as well as from the title block and that's that's the only change at this time great any questions on this plot thanks Haley and Julie can you talk about the changes to your plot this is item 3b so this is a revision a small revision to ropes and ranch unit 6-1 it actually includes a new note on it and that is note 11 and it talks about the easternmost 20 feet of lot 2x shall be dedicated as an easement to the city of Denton for public water sewer and storm drainage purposes that's for potential future future water lines in that in that area so it's just that that one note 11 any questions for Julie on this plot great thanks Julie oh Michelle thank you chair well Julie and I had a little conversation about this plot on and thank you for your response and yeah I would love yeah maybe some better clarity going forward if there's any way to do it I had brought up that on here like on all the ropes and properties the note about the lots are asterisked that are within a thousand feet and it's on this plot except none of them exist so it's a little bit misleading because what I said to her is did they accidentally forget to asterisk any because the note clearly reads they're marked with an asterisk so they were having conversations with them maybe going forward and clarifying some things so staff did make a comment regarding that to ropes and ranch because there are none of these lots are within a thousand feet of a gas well and so during the review staff made the comment that we made a suggestion hey did you want to change that plat note just to add some clarity they are hesitant to change that plat note because that plat note was really a culmination of working with our legal department and their legal department but I talked with them today and and and we talked about maybe going forward having two types of plat notes so getting our legal departments to get their heads together to maybe have a plat note for those areas that are outside of that thousand foot down buffer from a gas well so so hopefully soon we'll have a new plat note that will address that thank you great and did anyone have any questions for item 3c Haley's final plot so any questions on that one perfect so that would lead us into our two public hearing items the first one is 4a and Romans here to tell us about an historic landmark yeah an overview would be great at least with the historic Commission historic Landmark Commission had to say about it as usual with the landmarks unanimous quite a few slides here but I'll just go through them real quick you know I would have a few slides this is a historic landmark designation for for a property at 900 Eagan Street and so I just have we have a lot of background on it standard residential lot the owner lives in it has done some work there and would like to landmark it it's it's northwest of here on Eagan Street one of Denton's most well preserved he's a presentation yeah there we go and you know so we have a little bit of background about that we're gonna provide to you for example that this was a this is the streets were originally deeded to the city in 1917 for a dollar so that created gave the city the opportunity to panhandle pond or Eagan and Alice Street that the we have actually have the mechanics lien on this property we talked about who the contractor is who the owners were what they were contracted to build this property has a lot of ownership unusual for a local landmark for building of this condition usually you see fewer owners right now at about 80 to 90 years old but 12 owners and we still have a pretty good house this is the house which its original brick work and that's changed a little the columns were swapped out there was an addition in the back we talked about who lived there I'll give you a course more detail on this when we read through it but Mrs. Scott was quite phenomenal she was a poet and a songwriter and her music played on local radio stations she was on the Texas Council for the promotion of poetry and then who was born in the place so what was neat is this man Mr. Kirschbaum and his wife they had a child there he himself was important in the symphony and he was for a number of years in East Texas and Tyler conducted the symphony there but his son which is really what we're talking about Ralph was a real phenomena and is till today and so we're going to talk a little bit about him being born in that house and so this house was a Scott nursing home during the time that the Scotts had it and when we say nursing home it really wasn't nursing isn't we think of a place for the elderly to be but nursing in terms of birth and nursing and so it really were people it was a house to have your kids and so we're going to recommend approval that's kind of the background of it if any questions about it or anything you have it's a great property and of course this this this goes along with the Denton 2030 plan because in the 2030 plan we have that we want to encourage voluntary long mark designation and so on a street like Egan which is really a street that could be part of a historic district you know this is good to have a local landmark within that on that street totally agree any questions for this property Christian back not so much this property but that the area that this house is in hasn't the Texas Historical Society I guess it is have they certified this area I believe that Egan is part of the National Register District that historic Denton and Randy hunt have been working on getting designated and yes that's coming I think on a very soon they have a quarterly meetings of the State Board of Review which makes recommendations to the Park Service the National Park Service to create a national National Register District and yes this this this is I believe within that district which was created a local we sure it's a national designation that has no local impact and people aren't required to to have a permit to see a value that doesn't happen this part this house will with a local landmark designation but when you create a National Register District that does not automatically mean that your local government has anything to do with that I mean the people they don't have to report you can modify or you can demolish a house that's in a National Register District without reporting it to anyone unless your local law has something about that and some do you know Brownsville Texas where I came from anything on the state or the National Register the register Texas landmark or on the National Register those properties were automatically protected by the local ordinance the local ordinance said if you were to modify those properties then you still you need the same certificate of appropriateness that comes from the Landmark Commission some cities have it and some don't didn't hadn't had one yet so that's kind of where we are with that who's your Sanchez so what all what all the benefits that they get as far as with his designation well the the financial benefit that they get is and they will come back and ask for this the if they've spent ten thousand dollars on this property within two years of its designation our current code allows them to apply to have half off of their City of Denton property taxes for ten years and so if the work is qualified work in that the Landmark Commission alone can can say it's qualified but generally structural changes of course to the property then yes then they can receive that and actually that is not just ten years at the end of ten years if you've spent an additional ten thousand dollars in that period you can reapply and there's no limit in our code for that so half off and it's not an enormous amount of money but my feeling as a preservation officer and I think this is the way most people feel about historic districts as they do help to define a city and they take more to maintain usually so and or in the case of an improvement like that where someone's gone in of course they've added square footage to this house and a beautiful back porch with accents so that's where the benefit comes from that's the only local financial incentive the only other incentives that you know you've told a story about that residence that's documented and you actually have the added for them giving that financial benefit for for the city we we actually then have you know you have your Landmark Commission or your preservation officer that sort of watches over that property so that it doesn't have inappropriate alterations you know in the case of this one if someone came forward later and came into the office and they said they wanted to change these columns again for example you know they're talking to me normally I'm going to recommend you go back and put that you know row of stretcher bond brick columns back in and that and that pedestal the other alteration you can see in this image is the front door there used to be two front doors here which was common on those residents at that time there they could rent out a room in the back or the front and you'd have your an out exterior access so it's really about community it's really saying I'm proud of this place I'm proud of this home I'm proud I'm taking care of it and the people in the past and the only benefit right now would be the the tax interior they can do any kind of remodeling say inside like yes it is exterior is that what's your problem yes it doesn't trigger a certificate of appropriateness requirement unless it's exterior okay changes and then under the code that you're reviewing and putting through we're making it very clear that if if the changes are not visible from the street as determined by the preservation officer who it's ever acting as a preservation officer the director of planning also I think it can tie it to them too if it's not visible from the street by staff then it doesn't get also doesn't require a certificate of appropriateness you see I'm say so if you're making an addition in the back and it's not really visible then it wouldn't come before the Commission and then all your regular maintenance can be approved by staff it's just if you're you know if you're seeing a significant alteration typically you're gonna see window replacement and windows are really sacred in historic preservation I mean the economic studies that have been done on the economics of them and and what have you indicate that it's always best to preserve them and that the the energy savings really aren't aren't there financially how people think they are that's okay but when you're looking at these buildings that's generally you want to keep that front facade especially the front facade looking original so yeah that's when you're gonna see so Lamar Commission is only typically gonna see a pretty substantial alteration or demolition removal of the property altogether how hard would it be to get it off that you can position in the exact reverse according to ordinance you can petition in the exact reverse to to remove a property and I need to look at that language a little closer but it's been in there all along that you could remove the designation you can also you know if say someone has a landmark let's you know pick a more public buildings that might be landmark for example the old post office that's being used as a warehouse right now is a local landmark right so if it changed hands for example and someone wanted to demolish it that would probably get denied at the Landmark Commission but then it could be appealed to City Council and in that case it's possible City Council could allow for the demolition or not so you don't have to remove it per se I'll give you another example on the square on the southwest corner of the square where this building that says Sherman at the top that Hendry's building is a local landmark but it was I presume it must have been a local landmark have to look back at the history in the building that was there that burned down so the site is what we designate by the ordinance so the building that's there actually had to go before Landmark Commission so you have a really good building there but it's also good because he had a good architect Jim Jim Kirk Patrick I believe was the architect and took it very he actually helped to draft the first downtown design guidelines that we still have so he was very passionate about making sure a very good building was put in that place thank you chair members of the Commission this is a item project that you all have seen it was brought forward to you all in November I believe of last year where the applicant was requesting a rezoning in an SUP and the purpose for the rezoning was to increase their density and of course what we what they heard from the Commission and from the citizen at that public hearing was that anything over 12 units per acre was low high so what they've done is they've redesigned their site and have it underneath under 12 units per acre it's actually at 12 units per acre sorry I kind of told Roman to do it I'm not doing it so the site as you all are already familiar with is on Mockingbird just west of Mockingbird Mockingbird south of Mingo as shown there they are now proposing 118 where it was over 200 plus I think was 276 in their first draft again the site hasn't changed it's just that the number of dwelling units has dropped to 12 units per acre it is in the future land-use map as moderate residential the description of moderate residential is between 4 and 12 it's technically or designated for small housing detach it also includes a low rise in multifamily dwellings in town homes it's main it's to maintain the existing area act as a transition for other zoning districts and so you can see that the the community mix use and then the moderate is in between the low density residential so that's the future land-use map the zoning again is not being considered because they do not need that rezoning they are currently zone NRU me 12 but to allow for a multi-family use they need a specific use permit and that is what's being considered tonight the of the Michelle's thank you chair yes so on that note run I noticed you had a proposed zoning map in there that's just from an old presentation on this I apologize yes that's okay yeah that's not right we're not considering that at all okay thank you so again the NRU me 12 has a requirement that it obtain a specific use permit if you're proposing a multifamily dwelling unit it also has the L4 but the L4 basically also says specific use permit so essentially they achieve both by obtaining a specific use permit criteria for approval under the then development code is covered under sub chapter 6 3564 to be exact does the proposed use conform with all the standards is it compatible and does it have any adverse impact and through staff's analysis the criteria for approval is is met and and as you already probably have seen staff is recommending approval the site is shown here in red with major arterials mingo University Arden loop shown here there are several subdivisions in the area the Oak Ridge estates and of course the Bell Air North addition to the south had some some folks come out of course in opposition due to the high density that was being proposed since the public hearing I'm sorry the public meeting that they held in January 31st there were some residents from those subdivisions and they were pleased to see that they had revised their site plan to reflect more of the 12 units per acre just way of background or information there is another multifamily not too far from here it is called the woodlands of Denton shown here to the west that is approximately 16 or 15.9 dwelling units per acre and they're gonna be well below that or below that at 12 the mobility this was a topic of discussion by the public when they first were here as far as traffic and so right now the classifications for Mockingbird is a collector old north is also a collector which is just north of the site and mingo is a secondary arterial and as you all know they're not built to the standards or their their cross sections that are shown as of that classification so that is a future widening project in the future and as of today staff does not have any date of when those will be widened but we know that they have to it's just that we don't have a timeline at this point the staff analysis is in the backup I'm not going to go through it essentially they meet the the future lane use we looked at the compatibility of the area they are meeting the buffer the screening requirements they did do a TIA and they are complying with the requirements or the measurements that are recommended as part of TIA staff has looked at the orientation materials parking landscaping and ESA requirements as part of the analysis as of this afternoon and I have placed two notices or response to those notices on your on your desk there there was an opposition by the property to the West that said person has formally requested that his response be in favor rather than opposition which changes the percentage so currently there are five property owners within 200 foot that are in opposition that equates to or calculates to approximately eight point four seven percent and again shown on this exhibit are the red identifying those that are in opposition and then the person that is in favor is shown here in green I want to point out that the property owner did have two neighborhood meetings one again prior to the first public hearing back on October 31st there was one person that attended who was generally in favor really not any opposition they came here and planning zoning Commission it was a different story they held a second neighborhood meeting following that in January this year January 31st they had more people there about 12 people and again they were pleased to see that the density had dropped from whatever it was to 12 units per acre staff make is making a recommendation for approval with the following condition and we have this condition as part of a specific use permit that the attached site plan and landscape plan reflects the intent to comply with the DC requirements with regards to parking street trees landscaping and buffers although if there are any minor modification through the final building process they are able to but again the intent is to meet what is provided to you in your backup and that concludes my presentation I'll be happy to answer any questions for sure else thank you chair Ron I had a question on the buffer to Bel Air is that is it just a landscape buffer that's there is that all that's there there's actually a drainage channel on the south side and so you have you have the drainage channel which is hard to see and then above that is going to be a buffer as well of landscaping yes and I believe it is a 15-foot buffer type C buffer any other questions thanks all right thank you that concludes the work session for planning and zoning we will convene for our meeting at 630 and council chambers thank you well I'll close this meeting at 551 good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the planning and zoning Commission session for March 20th 2019 I will call this meeting to order at 637 the first item for business is a pledge of allegiance so if you're able please stand and provide US flag and Texas flag pledge of allegiance the next item of business is to consider approval of the minutes because of attendance we're going to take these in two different votes so the chair will first entertain a discussion or motion for the minutes for February 20th 2019 Commissioner Beck I move to approve the minutes for mark February 20th we have a first for approval Commissioner Ellis second we have a second we have first and a second for approval of the minutes any discussion seeing none I call for a vote on the board motion carries 6-0 the chair will now entertain a motion or discussion for the February 27th meeting minutes Commissioner Ellis I move we have a first for approval Commissioner pernetta a second motion to approve we have a second we have a first and a second for approval of the February 27th meeting minutes see no discussion I'll call for a vote on the board motion carries five zero with one recuse the next item of business is the consent agenda and chair will listen to any discussion or motion for the consent Commissioner Ellis I move approval of the consent agenda we have a first for approval Commissioner Beck second we have a first and a second for approval of the consent agenda any discussion seeing none I'll call for a vote on the board motion carries 6-0 that moves us to the public hearing the first item for hearing is item 4a HL 19 - 0 0 0 1 a I'll open the public hearing and ask Roman for presentation thank you chair my name is Roman McAllen I'm the historic preservation officer for the city of Denton tonight we have a request for historic landmark designation and we're asking you to make a recommendation to consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding an application for historic landmark designation for the property located at 900 Egan Street this is a standard residential lot of 9800 square feet zoning is nr3 this is presently use present use as a single-family residence just a little bit of orientation from where we're sitting today out to the northwest north northwest is the Egan Street and this neighborhood in 1917 can we take it we can take us back take you back about that far in 1917 the land was conveyed to the city of Denton for a dollar and it was in order to construct the streets so the streets that were laid out then were Panhandle Egan Ponder and Alice Street and here you see the lot that is the lot in question tonight and this was platted in 1923 we have a mechanics lien on this property so we know it was constructed for $3,750 in between July 14th of 1924 in August so in the short two or three months in the hottest time of the year for $3,750 someone constructed a house and the agreement was to construct a one-frame dwelling house of six rooms one bath one hall two porches the solid it says a solid brick foundation and I assume that solid brick piers because it's a pier and beam home and also a convass which is a term that I researched as much as I could and if you know what the definition of a convass is I'd appreciate it I think it has something to do with resting or a porch it also had included paper and paint and plumbing and wire and all the fixtures and so that work was completed by LG McCormick for CEO Hussie now CEO Hussie took ownership briefly in 1924 from C and Bertie Lipscomb they appeared to have deed at the house to him to to contract with the contractor and in their agreement when in the deed it actually said that he would construct a modern dwelling house of standard construction equal to or better than a five-bedroom bungalow so then you have this progression of ownership and there are total 12 owners listed here which is something rare for a home that is in this condition which is a good condition and 12 owners over those years you do know that in 19 in 1940 I believe it was that there was an remodel an extensive remodel which is that blue block in the middle for six hundred and ninety dollars where there was some upgrades to the property the present owner has been there for ten years that's William Bo Hughes and Kimberly Beth Hughes and they've been there ten years and made some improvements this is the home and our historic resource survey you see that stripe there that it was a considered a contributing home to any potential historic district and of a medium priority and they said they were pretty close at 1925 for the construction date and this image is from the Denton County tax records this is the home as it looks today some diagonal images as well as the rear elevation on your right where some additional square footage was added to the house as well as a porch which are appropriate for these for the style of the home the the home hasn't still retains a lot of its original condition including now what only that's really changed from the front is the front door there were two front doors as a lot of homes had at this period in time when people would rent a front room or a back room and often they person would have their own exterior access the front the columns which were interesting there these full columns which are a row brick pattern there standard I wrote the term there this is a let me get my stretcher bond brick pattern on these on these columns there were three columns and then there was a shorter decorative column the original lap double novelty siding is still there the wooden double hung windows and especially important in Denton these very stylized roof rafter tails which we see throughout the inner part of Denton and some cities you don't see him so often but in some in Denton are very well articulated now the home is not just important for having that architectural integrity but it's also about who owned the home and who was born in the home and so here we have mrs. Scott and mrs. Scott her name was mrs. Vesta Scott and her husband lived in the house and she was had a prolific career in Denton she was a songwriter and many of her songs were played on radio stations in Fort Worth and Dallas she wrote a song called April is Spring and it was a lovely according to the Denton record Chronicle a lovely reminiscing melody about Texas State College for Women's red buttoned lane but that was what she did part-time what she did full-time was operate the Scott nursing home and don't want to leave out that she was also on the Texas Council for the promotion of poetry and was represent was on one program in the poetry hour now what she did otherwise was operate the Scott nursing home and while nursing home here I think we have really a birthing center and so there are many records of people who were born in this home including here as we see in the blue a boy was born to mr. and mrs. Joseph Kershbaum who lived at 220 Frye and that he was a professor at UNT he was a very important professor he was a Yale graduate and he directed the Oberlin Conservatory string orchestra he did a lot of impressive work including that he served for a time for a quite a long number of years with the East Texas symphony East Texas Symphony in Tyler Texas but that son that was born to him is is really quite impressive Ralph Kershbaum who we saw in that story was born he went on to become a really lauded cello player and include he had appearances with the symphony orchestras of Boston Chicago San Francisco in London he served on the faculty of the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester for 38 years and in 2008 he accepted a chair at the University of Southern California's Thornton School of Music and I don't imagine his parents paid anything extra for him to to work or to attend there and to be that position he received an honorary doctorate of music from the Royal Conservatory of Scotland in Glasgow and he served a five-year term on the United States Presidents Committee on the Arts and Humanities so I mean this home is just so representative of Denton in our history and our tie to music and the arts and it should be no surprise that if we just dig a little at each in any house and you look around we find these neat stories he also played in the Symphony Sydney Orchestra in Sydney Australia and you note this in yellow here from the Los Angeles Times it says Ralph Kershbaum on cello the highest echelon of today's cellist so cellist so he was really quite phenomenal and so basically we were now at the criteria for designated property in the city of Denton and we have this criteria there it meets quite a few of the criteria but I listed three here that the property has character or interest or value as part of a development heritage or the cultural characteristics of our city in this home this case the home retains those qualities that I've told you about and it was the location for number 11 identification with a person who significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city the state or the United States and the filing number three a building or structure that because of its location has become a value to the neighborhood Egan Street it's one of the most intact historical streets in Denton it's really phenomenal and so landmarking a property there certainly meets the Denton plan 2030 goal of encouraging voluntary landmark designation as a vehicle to protect sites with historical significance notices were sent out in the two hundred and five hundred four five hundred square foot radius not square foot foot radius and we had one print response that was favorable and one phone call to my office and the owner has also had a posting in front of his home there the sign has been there for the required time and I'll take any questions thank you for the presentation the screen is loading here I do not see any questions for you thank you thank you this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak on this item may certainly do so if you would like is there anyone here wishing to speak on this seeing none I will close the public hearing and turn it to discussion in a motion Commissioner Ellis thank you chair Roman thanks for a great presentation as always I move approval we have a first for approval Commissioner pernetta I second that motion we have a first and a second for approval of recommending to counsel the this application for the historically marked designation any discussion seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board the only thing I wanted to say is I know this family personally I'm super excited and proud that they went through the work to get here and so congratulations to the Hughes family for earning this designation hopefully council will do a unanimous vote on this item with that we'll vote on the board motion carries six zero that moves us to our next and final public hearing item for BS 18 - 0 0 0 5 D I will open the public hearing and invite Ron for presentation thank you chair members of Commission members of staff this item is s 18 5 mockingbird multifamily and this is a should be a familiar project y'all had seen this back in November of last year it is for a specific use permit initially back in November the applicant requested a zoning change as well as a specific use permit during that public hearing there was some comments received by the applicant regarding the density of the proposed development being over 12 units per acre the applicant has since amended their site plan and their proposal to be below the 12 at I'm sorry at 12 units per acre therefore the rezoning request has been withdrawn and tonight we are just considering the specific use permit the specific use permit is again to allow for the multifamily dwelling use the applicant is proposing 118 dwelling units on 9.91 acres and as you can see here located on the west side of mockingbird Lane and just south of mingo for the land use element the area in subject area that is is designated as moderate residential designated for roughly 12 to sorry 4 to 12 dwelling units per acre looking at low-rise multifamily single-family detached housing maintaining the scale of the area but also providing that transitional zoning that you see from a higher intense zoning to the lower intense zoning that's shown in on this slide the zoning is NRM you 12 that is the zoning and they are not changing that the zoning does allow for multifamily however it requires a specific use permit and also to meet the limitation 14 I'm sorry limitation 4 which essentially is a requirement for a specific use permit or part of a mixed-use development they're not doing mixed-use they're just doing apartments so they're going to take care of both requirements through the specific use permit it allows for 12 units per acre where they are maximum lock coverage of 60 and maximum height of 40 and the applicant or the proposed site plan meets those requirements for criteria for approval it is located in sub chapter 6 of the den development code specifically 3564 looking at how it is headed how it conforms with the standards as well as compatibility and that it not be an adverse impact to the surrounding area for compatibility analysis as part of your backup we did look at the area the area here shown in red is the subject property the major arterials or streets are shown here University mingo Audra and the loop there are existing developments within the area for context you have Oak Ridge to the southeast Bel Air north directly to the south shallow field of fields to the West and then you have other developments I want to make I want to make note of woodlands of Denton which is the closest multifamily development to the subject site is located to the west of the project subject project this is some information on the woodlands of Denton it is approximately 15.9 dwelling units per acre and again the proposal for this subject property is 12 units per acre so less than what is shown or at woodlands of Denton as far as mobility I know that at our last public hearing there were a lot of questions and comments related to traffic and in other items the mobility plan shows mingo as a secondary arterial mockingbird is a collector shown here in this dotted line and Audra is also shown as a collector road I will tell you that all three or all of the surrounding streets are not built to the street classification that is part of our mobility plan staff again as part of the analysis looks at a number of different factors we looked at the future land use element again it is designated as small moderate residential compatibility the adequate capacity of infrastructure those have been reviewed by development review committee and they are there are adequate capacity in that area there was a traffic impact analysis that was conducted as part of this specific use permit the mitigations that were identified help address some of the traffic issues that potentially could be generated by this development the applicant has applied those mitigation measures as part of development in their site plan they're installing a right turn lane as you head south so that allows people to get into the development quicker and not have a backup on mingo vice versa heading north there are two entrances to the site again to allow for more ability to get in and not be trapped I have traffic along mockingbird we also looked at building materials parking landscaping screening and ESA requirements the applicant will be required to meet all of those requirements they are also meeting the buffer and screening requirements in the form of a type C on the south a type B to the west again those are all part of the DEN development code requirements as of this afternoon we have received approximately eight responses five in opposition and you can see those that are represented in the red are those that are in opposition and that calculates to eight point four seven percent and then the one and the three that are in favor the one is shown here in green and there are two others that are not shown here but they're in the 200 foot area that it calculates to 14% during the initial stage the applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting it was held on October 31st and one person attended that meeting and that person generally was in favor however soon after that the public hearing at the public hearing with planning zoning Commission the Commission heard from several property owners or neighbors and they were in opposition hearing those comments in those concerns the applicant was asked to go back and talk to the neighbors and they have they before they did however they refined and updated their site plan to lower the density because that was really the major discussion during the public hearing and on January 31st they held another neighborhood meeting and at that meeting there were 12 approximately 12 members of the community that attended the applicant shared with them their revised site plan and generally the attendance or attendees were pleasant to hear that the density has now been lowered to 12 units per acre than what was previously proposed with that staff is recommending approval of the specific use permit with the condition that the site plan and landscape plan reflected reflects the intent to comply with the DC requirements and any minor modification or alteration can be approved by staff as long as they meet the intent and again they have shown and have told us that they're going to meet all of that and so the site plan and the landscape plan documents all of what they've agreed to do with that I will stand for questions the applicant is present and I am ready for any questions we do have one question mr. Beck thank you chair thanks Ron in your recommendation are you indicating that this site plan is pretty much the way it's going to be with possibly some minor changes right and that anything beyond minor changes would be kind of they would have to bring this back okay okay so the site plan is the this is pretty much it okay I'm gonna be as far as location of buildings and everything like that right okay the other thing I wanted to discuss on the south side where you've got that open drainage you said there was gonna be a 15 foot barrier from the buffer it'll be a 15 foot buffer okay it'll be on the south side of that open drain will be on the north side no drain so I'll be further away okay and I misunderstood that because I drove by there earlier and when you mentioned that I thought there's not 15 feet between on the south side of it okay that answers that thank you Ron thank you Ron any other questions this is a public hearing you on wishing to speak may certainly do so we have a couple cards filled out Ron mentioned the applicants is here I do not have a card for the applicant are y'all wishing to speak are you just here for questions or you want to say they have a presentation okay perfect we'll certainly invite the applicants up you have 20 minutes 10 minutes and if you could fill out a card if possible it'd be a great help and if you just state your name and address for the record five eight one one carry drive Frisco Texas seven five zero three five so thank you Commission we were here back in November as Ron mentioned and we got very good feedback from the commissioners and we had good feedback from the neighborhoods and we made a lot of changes several changes and we went back to the neighbors and we got another round of feedback from them and these were the feedback that we had received there were basically into four different categories now one was traffic the major concerns were laid out over there but it seemed like most of the concerns that were came out of the traffic were related to the intersection of mingle and mockingbird right and also on the south side on mockingbird and order not exactly adjacent to our property in front of mockingbird and then the second thing we heard about was the building heights and we have reduced that now only to two stories so all the neighbors were very pleasant to hear that that we are only going to do two story the third one was the drainage because some neighbors mentioned that there is always water on the west side of mockingbird on the south side of the mockingbird property line and what we have done is we have done a thorough civil floodplain study on that and we have included in the new site plan we have modeled the floodplain in the area to account for additional runoff so not only normal but we have also added some additional runoff to make that even better and then the fourth feedback we had received at that time was about on-site parking few neighbors mentioned it was too much parking few neighbors mentioned it was too less parking so in the new site plan as mentioned what we are doing is it is inside parking so it's all enclosed garages it's like single-family homes right parking is all enclosed and also all the drivers so that's those are the few changes that we made to make sure everything is taken for we do have a couple questions for you Mr. Beck thank you chair thank you mr. partner for your presentation thought I heard you said all your buildings are going to be two stories right because in your narrative it says most are all of them are two stories so are you saying now that all the buildings will be two story okay okay thank you had not seen other questions for you at this time we might have some later but thank you for your presentation thank you again this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak may do so we'll go through the cards I have and then if they're getting more we can continue the first card I have is for Kimberly Wells and if you could just state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to speak hi my name is Kimberly Wells I live at 2933 Stockton Street I just wanted to come and voice my concerns I know many have been addressed and I do appreciate that when we do get responses but the parking situation still is a big concern to me Stockton runs right behind those apartments and so do some of the other neighborhoods and many of those multi family homes will have two or three bedrooms and they end up being occupied by students which I did when I was a student and each have a car and each have two you know significant others with cars and I just that's a big concern to me of if Stockton and the other neighborhoods are going to become parking for that area I know they said there would be parking for each lot but is that is it two car or do they park out on the street how much parking is available for each apartment that's that's one of my main concerns and the other which he talked about was the drainage Audra and all that does over flow a lot and I just don't want anything to make it worse when we go down where Audra hits mingo when we have significant rains that area becomes kind of overloaded so those are my main concern as I said I live directly below and I am pleased that the trees are going to be preserved and that it's been cut back to two stories but the parking is kind of my main concern when it overflows thank you perfect thank you as well as we have a question for you question question Sanchez when you say parking you live on Stockton I live on Stockton okay and so in order to come out from from the development or to get to the development you have to come on to mockingbird and then go to new stock it would just be a kind of a u-turn almost into from there into Stockton because they won't be able to park on mockingbird yes mockingbirds like there's no there's no parking there there's no parking they'd have to come out of the development and then drive all the way to Stockton well Stockton's right behind it yeah I know it's right behind it but it would still have the according to the what do you call it the entrance or the exit from from from the development it would go into mockingbird so they'd have to come in order to park some I'm wondering what how that would affect you say it's parking but I don't understand I'm saying when visitors come to that lot a lot of issues that come up when we talk about towing and things like that is how limited visitors are there so if you have a lot of visitors a lot of students a lot of people if they don't have enough parking not just for the house but for the visitors they're gonna where they will park is in those neighborhoods and I mean I brought up Stockton because mine is right there and you could park and then just walk right up it's the sidewalk into that area and then there's the neighborhood across the street so we're already pretty everybody on my neighborhood seems to own three to four trucks so good for them but we're already pretty sandwiched in on our street so that's just a concern that if they only allow one or two visitors parking spots and people have five or six people over where is that overflow parking where are they gonna park and I'm just worried it's gonna be in the neighborhoods that's just my main concern okay all right all right thank you miss Wells we'll make sure I will get an answer from the city we'll let other people speak we'll make sure we'll get an answer about the parking requirement you ask okay hang around we'll get an answer for you because some apartments have very different from others just as somebody who visits apartments they'll say you can't you know find a place to park outside my my parking complex so I just want to make sure that's not the case we'll get more clarification for you next car I have is for Sandra Williams and if you just state your name and address for the record you'll also have three minutes my name is my name is Sandra Williams I live at 3049 Brandywine Street I am not within the 500 foot impact but I live in the neighborhood on the east side of Mockingbird and I have two concerns number one what you call a drainage I call a creek when Bel Air was built about 15 years ago they cemented the drainage to allow the runoff to go on down but behind our neighborhood the drainage is not cemented or concrete and so I just wondered if the city is planning on keeping that drain clean so that when there is a heavy rain and to accommodate all the extra runoff from the apartments will will it go down the and keep flowing east or will it back up and flood my neighborhood my neighborhood was flooded I can't remember how many years ago but we had about five inches of rain in 12 hours and our streets were flooded now it didn't flood any homes it did flood the streets up to the top of the curbs so that was a concern and that doesn't have anything to do with the developer I'm just asking the city where you keep the creek clean so the water will run off my other concern was parking also I am I walk in the neighborhood and I see the traffic and I've walked out Audra where it goes east and west goes east toward loop 288 and there is a new addition the last five or ten years called Audra estates they have built luxury town they're not called town homes they're called duplexes and they each have a two-car garage but so many of them have been purchased and then leased out to different people like two to four people to an apartment with that many different cars and when I walked down the street I cannot walk down the sidewalk which was built for that reason for we could so we could walk I have taken a couple of pictures if you're interested in seeing the parking condition on Bayfield in front of the luxury townhomes because you cannot it this street is completely full and my pictures were taken after most of the people had left but you still cannot walk down the sidewalk set those right on that little target felt right there and then we can have the camera up above you turn on thank you so you can see that four cars in a driveway they have a garage but they're not using the garages evidently plus more cars on the street now I have another one it is and this was later in the day like after 8 o'clock maybe almost 9 and there's still that many cars on the street my son used to live in a neighborhood a condominium neighborhood he had to rent a garage but the garage wasn't deep enough for a full-size car or a pickup truck so he couldn't use the garage for anything but storage and he used the one allotted parking space out front so when we went to visit him from out of town you know and to spend the night we had to find a visitor spot there were only just a few visitor spots and if the visitor spots were empty when people were coming home from work they would use them for for themselves instead of allowing visitors so it was really difficult and sometimes we could park in front of the clubhouse but there were only about six spots there or we could park farther down toward the street and eventually some people were parking out on their street so that's a concern as I am thinking of mrs. Wells that they might end up parking on mockingbird or coming around the corner when people have visitors I appreciate you coming letting us know thank you next is Norman miss Ploy miss play I'm sorry miss play if you could just state your name and address for the record you also have three minutes my name is Norman display live at 2921 Stockton Street which is directly I guess we consider it east of the proposed multifamily use that they're going to be putting in there a couple of three concerns about it number one in a process of building these they're going to have to widen mockingbird in order for the trucks to come in and out and everything else has that been addressed as to what they're going to be handling there because of the traffic that handles mockingbird that goes up and down that area come from mocking comes from Stockton Street which is directly east of there and then the rest of the places that are going be able to take care of that and then the building is going to be two stories high and I think they said 118 buildings in that particular area that means a lot of drainage and everything else with that drainage be going into the culvert that is there and the other thing I was looking at is right behind our house there is a tree line that goes on the north side that we'd like to have the tree line to stay there if possible because that breaks a lot of wind that comes down through that area into the houses and rattles the fences or blows them down or everything else and maybe the shingles and like to know if that tree line can stay there as protection for the houses that rear the houses that are on Stockton Street that are right up next to that culvert that's right there for the drainage and be sure and just be sure that when it does heavy rain that it handles everything that's coming in with that many people coming in and those houses being worked on and everything else then that means that there may be some things that could happen where the drainage doesn't always come off and may take a while while they're doing this in order for that to be taken care and handled is you know they're going to be working with that and handling that and then the other thing is since there's going to be so many people coming into that area and a lot of cars and everything what about police trafficking are they going to be watching the highway over there much more than what they normally do and we also have railroad tracks that come across there which goes through mingle and comes across Mockingbird which is right now and sometimes during the day and in the evening that's a traffic hazard in some areas that you have to be real careful about are they addressing that is that going to be included in this or is that going to be taken on by the city at a different time or a different area and these are some of the things that we're looking at there the people that I've talked to would like to keep the tree line there they want to be sure that we're going to have everything taken care of and the people that are coming in and who and then who's going to run that area there who's the management people they're going to be taking care of it and who's the managers are there are they willing to meet with the people that are there so we can be sure that we all work together as a team and not individually to the point where we're trying to get out everybody else we want to work together we don't mind people coming in or anything like that but we want to work together and again is the parking situation I've been down Stockton Street either early in the morning or late in the evening when the people come home and the people live in there there's a lot of houses in there that ran out rooms to college students and everything and they parked and again like the picture showed that she had you do have the highway I'm going to use her picture she doesn't mind right here if there are sidewalks that are blocked through there so it is hard to go walking or anything like that especially for the children that are there that are coming in because that's parked they have to walk outside or go around the cars puts them in the street that could be a dangerous thing for small children and we need to be looking at all of that I think any questions at all I do not see any questions but I appreciate being here and yes sir Commissioner Sanchez I believe that is against a law for them to park and block that isn't it I I know I have a tenant that parked like that and I was and he was he was warned by the code enforcement that they're not supposed to be parking that blocking the sidewalks okay with this many people coming in and everything like it is even now on Stockton Street especially we notice a lot of people that are parking like that they're trying real hard but the way that the situation is set now some of those garages are not sitting for back far enough to park in four cars sometimes not even two cars especially if you have a ram charger pickup or anything like that and it's still gonna stick out in that area so that's still a concern because we have a lot of children especially couples coming in young children out you want to walk and stuff like that we might not look out for them we want to be on the curse on the careful side of that and this is the other thing that we're looking at to be sure that everything that we work with is working cooperatively we understand that they want to build housings there and multi units that's well and fine let's be sure we got all the all our T's crossed all our I's dot as we go into this and these things need to be addressed before they start building or they get it taken care of so we understand exactly what's going on I missed the meetings that they had I'll be honest with you I worked a lot but that's beside the point the point of it is that we look at this objectively and be sure that everything that is done that can be done and I'm sure that the people building these houses have got a lot of things on their mind and they're looking at the same time but you still got material coming in you got a lot of trucks coming up and down mockingbird and that's not a very big street as it is number two there's only two instances into the area where they're talking about so they're probably going to have to enlarge those areas in order to get trucks in and out and materials in and out at the same time there's only two ways you can get into that place when I was by that house is there the other ones down by another little what used to be watch house or a house that worked with gardening or whatever to go into that area which means that they do that and they're going to enlarge it and that also means that that drainage is comes down through there that goes into the fire we have to look and be sure that's all tied in any other questions I did not see any thank you very much thank you very much thank you for coming out next go to have us for Linda good off I need to state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes thank you my name is Linda good away I live at 3001 Oakshire Street thank you for the opportunity to speak and I apologize for being late I'm actually coming out of a PTA meeting so I'm actually the president of the PTA for Alexander Alexander Elementary School so I am proud of my community very involved I happen to be located within that 500 foot area my subdivision has one entrance one exit and we already have issues with traffic backing up when there's a train cars lining either side of the street so that fire engines ambulances have a tough time entering and exiting I think the potential for building this project will bring at least 200 more cars onto a two-lane road that does not have sidewalks I cannot walk when I lived I moved here in 2006 from Austin I walked four miles every day and it was safe I was around Zilker Park I was in a very congested busy area I can leave my subdivision if I cross Mockingbird and go over into the Bel Air addition they have sidewalks but that would require me crossing that very busy street I'd like to remind everyone we had a death in October of 2018 of an esteemed member of our community who was crossing Audra just four tenths of a mile north of the woodlands he was walking his dogs he was trying to cross Audra trying to get back home he was killed he was struck by a vehicle and he and his dogs were killed I know several years ago on Audra close to loop 288 we also do not have sidewalks there so there's no way I can even make a walk around the block with my kids my dogs safely because there's not sidewalks for me to do that on there was a young boy who was struck by a vehicle on his bike he survived but I just I am very sensitive to the fact that our kids our family are in danger with the infrastructure the way it is so I'm not opposed to the development but I really would love to see infrastructure I felt like we waited very patiently while the Bel Air addition was installed I was hoping that we would get sidewalks completed on Audra and on Mockingbird I'd also like to remind you that Mockingbird and then Mingo flood so when we have a heavy rain it floods so it's going to cause whoever resides in this development to maybe not be able to get home when we have a heavy rain so there needs to be improvements on both Mockingbird and Mingo additionally I'm sure you all have traveled down Mingo when there was a train and you see how far the traffic backs up it's a hazard because again that's a two-lane road no sidewalks there either thank you so much for being here and thanks for your service to the schools Christian for not has a question yeah I just kind of wanted to ask real quick I hadn't really made the connection of where exactly this was Roddy was a friend of mine thank you and I just wanted to ask if you're all in the community have made any efforts petitioning City Council about getting sidewalks in your area to improve the safety you know we have not and I want to say I just assumed it was in the plan you know I just assumed that when you work with the developers to increase the density of the housing population that you're also working on the infrastructure I think in the presentation it said that Mockingbird Mingo they're not they're not up to the code for the amount of traffic that they receive currently so why would we impose over 200 additional cars on those roads so yes that would be my next step to to go to City Council but I just I feel like we kind of got orphaned over there you know that there's a lot of improvement going on in other areas of the city and we just got left behind the elementary school my kids go to was known as Robert E. Lee it's one of the older elementary schools in Denton we are a title one elementary school and if you look at the district zoning map we probably have the smallest radius around the elementary school of any elementary school in Denton ISD and the reason is the volume of multi-family homes it's very densely populated Tricia Sanchez so let me get you live it in the woodlands no I don't live in the woodlands but the pedestrian death I was speaking of happened in the driver's way of the Ann Wendell school and it was four tenths of a mile from the woodlands which is a recent fairly recent multi-family development right right right so so where actually do you live so I live on the corner of mockingbird and Oakshire Street okay okay yes yeah that whole area doesn't have sidewalks no we really need them because so much traffic comes in and out okay I just want to make sure we're thank you thank you and and may I also say even over in the Bel Air edition where there are sidewalks kids play football in the street they play basketball we don't have a park we don't have a shared play space so our streets right now are actually serving as the playground for our children unfortunately Ron are you aware of City Council's form they have for requesting sidewalks council member Briggs had recently posted that I was wondering if if not I can sidebar with Miss Godoy to get her that there is a public form where you can request a sidewalk like petition process we can certainly provide that to mr. yeah sorry I think that's the lowest barrier to entry to get in front of council on sidewalk provisions so I'd certainly at least fill out that form online so a council member will follow up with you about what steps would take to hopefully build some sidewalk infrastructure thank you Ron I do not see any thank you so much for your time thank you that's the last card I had but this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak may certainly do so is there anyone else wishing to speak you may certainly do so if you just can come to the mic and state your name and address for the record my name is Nancy Carson and I live at 2908 Oakshire and I just have some questions from things that were said tonight so could I ask those you certainly ask those and then we'll I'm getting a list and I think the other commissioners are as well to make sure all those questions that are asked can be addressed as best as possible okay I'd like to know how many bedrooms are going to be in these units and if they'll all be the same or a variety if you just is that the only question you have no I have another one let's list those questions and I'll call the okay and I'd like to know if there's going to be a site manager or a resident manager on the property and I'd like to know how far the railroad track is from the property line any other questions I had more let's say oh I think Ron mentioned a low density that they had when they were planning this they decided to lower the density so I wanted to ask about that what did they lower it to or they lowered it just under 12 it's a 11 point nine units per acre okay so it's under the 12 units per acre that the zoning I thought it already was 12 that was why I was asked in the question they came at last year with the proposal that has significantly more than 12 per acre they've refined their application and brought it back this evening with it reduced under the 12 okay thank you and I'll make sure we get the other questions if possible so thank you for those questions thank you is there other individuals wishing to speak on this item this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak we certainly do so so seeing no other comments I'll go ahead and close the public hearing and turn it to the dais for motion or questions and I certainly have some questions for city and the applicant to address but we'll let Commissioner back go thank you chair yeah I would like the owner to come back up and address the parking if you could and if you've got your site plan if you could put that up for us because I I'm looking at it and it's not real clear how parking is I think I've got a good idea but I'd like you to demonstrate how parking is going to occur within okay you've got 11 buildings correct okay and I see those so is the parking going to be in between the buildings can you turn the mic just yeah sorry so the example that was given here on this one I have visited the property personally and it's a dead-end street and there are 78 units in less than five acres and I would never do that it's a dead-end there is no other way to go that's the only street you can park 78 times two okay but I need you to address your parking if you would what that that area you're showing to is to the east of all these units here they're not there's no street connection to it so I'm not sure how anybody get away to walk it unless they got up on the order and walked over but if you would show us how your units are going to allow for parking absolutely yeah you just state your name and address so we have my name is Patrick I'm with Kirkman engineering my address is 4821 Merlot Avenue in grapevine Texas I've got a list of questions here I could probably really help make some clarification there yeah if we could address Mr. Beck's question on parking each this will really function like a town can you sit your plane yeah this is really what I'd like to show here and this is a detail of each driveway location or any the square here is going to be the unit you can see the interior garage there in a driveway and so each particular unit can house four cars it's got four parking stalls assigned to each unit and we worked pretty extensively with staff on that because that really exceeds the parking requirement to a point where we had to add more trees or reduce parking those were our options or or pay for them and so we work with staff to kind of make the the unique clarification of that this doesn't really function as a multifamily product and these parks are valuable and will serve for the for the betterment of the community to go back to the point that is brought up on the duplex community down the road is it's a public street and public right away this is a private development which can be policed significantly better than that the public road development allows on on Street Park that's well within the rules and the law this would be against the rules if someone wants parks on the fire lane that that's against the law and you've got people on site that can can police that and maintain that so that and there there's guest parking per the city code like I said beyond that so the calculations that's been done is per its per unit per bedroom based on the size of the unit the unit based on the size of the bedrooms or the number of bedrooms and then you add on 10% for visitor parking and we way exceeded that number to a point where we had to work with staff to come up with a compromise there that is parking I guess we could we could address the questions as you like or I could run through the list of questions I heard from the residents real quick and then yeah if you would do that yeah since here there's gonna be approximately 118 units that's great that's 118 bedrooms that's 118 units individually school units we've got one two and three bedrooms correct and the site plan itself in the site data table here let list each lot in the number of units in each one and then I think the majority of my three-bedroom and there's two-bedroom on on lot two okay yeah if you would go ahead yeah okay yeah sure I think we can get clear up a lot of the confusion here so parking is like we discussed I mean I think we went way above and beyond on the parking drainage I understand that the the property is wet now it's got floodplain on it we're working to not even to mitigate that really to remap it when that concrete channel was put in they remapped a portion of the floodplain they didn't remap the entire floodplain that concrete channel holds the majority of the floodplain so we will remap that and then mitigate what we don't that the concrete channel does not hold so you you know the the drainage may be bad now from a standpoint of water standing around we'll create a scenario that significantly improves that you know and I understand the concept of well we're adding all these buildings we're out in all this concrete we're going to increase runoff absolutely 100% correct but what we will do is increase the time it takes for it to get for rain to hit the ground get in the channel and out of the system instead of letting it hit the ground build up get saturated fill the channel up while everything upstream of the channel fills up the channel and those thing to peaks meet at the same time so there's a there's a peak on peak phenomenon that is an engineering discussion and so we'll get in and out of the system well before that peak comes through and so the overall drainage of the property should increase or should be improved when we come in and with this development and you know you don't have to believe me there's we've got a flood study that proves that and well the city will require that of us so that's drainage so trees I'm sure you guys have seen a number of tree mitigation plans or preservation plans we that this site was particularly difficult and there are a number of trees on the site and we're required to preserve a number of them there's a bunch of really really nice old mature trees and we want to preserve them as much as anybody and we're required to preserve a number of them which we're doing and then the ones that we can't preserve we're required to mitigate for and and we're far exceeding that to that point the trees that run along the north edge of that open drainage you'd be able to salvage that and use that as part of your absolutely I'm not here to commit that I can absolutely do that the design the engineering hasn't been done on that but I mean you're gonna have a 15-foot barrier there anyway so those trees could absolutely serve part of it yes I mean we want the barriers as much as anybody we want the natural trees just as much as anybody and that is absolutely a high priority for us and it's part of our tree mitigation plan so we're anticipating that being the case okay that was trees having a hard time reading my hand right in here oh the again on the public chain of the channel and the maintenance of that it's a public channel it's not on our property it's completely off our property it'll be maintained and up and by the by the city they'll that's really kind of out of a lot of these issues are out of our control and out of our purview really so how many I guess I'm trying to stay in order here drainage trees so police trafficking I you know I'm not sure we've got a real large control that we will have on-site management that that will manage the multifamily development like any other one if there's issues that they will be in contact with the police they'll be you know well the managers actually live there or just be there during working hours there was a concern about how construction gets in and out of the site I have I'm fortunate enough to be deal a lot with development and construction and there will be a one construction entrance there may be two access points to the site right now there'll be there'll be one point of access that'll be built per you know standards of the city and and regional standards that show how to create a construction entrance trucks get in and out pretty freely it's going to create debris on the road that will have to be maintained and cleaned up and you know periodically that that's part of this process and it's part of any construction process it'll be done just like any other the sidewalks the lack of sidewalks in the adjacent neighborhoods I really can't do a whole lot to address address that concern but one of the things that has been required of us is along with the expansion of mockingbird or the inclusion inclusion of two D cell lanes for each one for each of our drivers an eight-foot sidewalk is required along our entire frontage and so you know that that should help out some of the sidewalk situation as much as we possibly can it was yeah that was another question y'all are gonna be required to put sidewall okay we connect to Stockton I believe we don't connect to Stockton oh that's right the drink right so we'll take it to the limits of our of our site and beyond that it's right away and other private brought I forgot about the open right there so more flooding and like was discussed before a lot of the concerns were the traffic on you know adjacent areas on mockingbird and mingo and on Audra there's there's very little I think we we can do we've done a traffic study and I know Ron mentioned that with all three of the thoroughfares in that area are not built to ultimate conditions that is true but they are operating within a reasonable standard at this time the traffic study shows that in that the way that process typically works in my mind and you know maybe city staff can correct me is that when there's not really a major need there until there until you get those level service that are operating in a function that aren't servicing the neighborhoods and you know that that's that's kind of where we're at we're making the improvements to mockingbird where we can but the adjacent areas are really outside of our control don't yeah I think that's so I'm gonna just I think one of the questions the distance from the railroad tracks was that address and if you can use this Patrick to illustrate it shows your site plan a little relationship to the railroad yes sir so these are the railroad tracks way up here in gray I believe I you don't get me lying but I'm happy to measure it and give an exact distance but you can see that I think there's a hundred foot right away here for the railroad and the railroad tracks are generally in the middle of the railroads it looks like about 50 feet here and then you know another 30 feet to the closest building here and you know you see a significant difference distance here from the railroad the railroad certainly a concern of ours and you know it's sometimes it's difficult to lease space for people to live in near a railroad and they're not quiet they are a burden and it's something we will certainly have to deal with we do have another question from Chris or Sanchez sure are you targeting us students or you get be targeting families I think with three bedrooms and two bedrooms mostly we are looking at families but again the market decides that but we'll be targeting both so you're gonna be renting by the by the apartment not by the room right that is correct is that correct okay to show us thank you chair I know a TIA was done do you know what that study revealed yes yes I don't have here with me but it so we did an original TIA if you remember back in November when we were before you there were three driveways and so a little different modification to Mockingbird Road and so that TIA was specifically took into account for those three driveways and the diesel lanes and the traffic movements and that's configuration the TIA has been revised to accommodate or to show the two driveways and the level of service so it's like a it's like a letter score grade a is good E is unfunctionable and I and I think the all the roads that are mockingbird and mingo were both in the B range do you remember numbers generation I don't know I'm not happy to provide the report to you I know see staff has it and we can provide that information you sure back thank you chair just we're here to vote on especially use permits so my question isn't really pertinent to that but if you mind me asking if you mind sharing what kind of price range are you looking at for your apartments close to around $2,000 for a month I'm sorry for a month per unit yeah because the okay one bedroom would go for one unit one unit will be around $2,000 per month right what do you call in a unit oh we have one three bedroom will be one unit okay so three bedroom would go for 2,000 that is correct and two bedroom would obviously be a little bit less okay yeah okay so the maximum no it's gonna be three bedroom and around 2,000 that is correct okay thank you appreciate you sharing it I don't see any other questions this time so the public hearing has been closed we've got a lot of questions answered certainly if there's any more we can we can have the discussion but the chair would would look to have a motion and discussion around the motion at this time Christian back I'm gonna go ahead and move to approve this he has met the criteria by right he can build there I understand the concern about the extra traffic that's gonna occur there but it's it's gonna occur regardless that spot won't stay empty forever the concern about any parking on Monking Bird should be a moot issue they're just it's prohibited for anybody to park there they would park at their own risk if they did so I don't see that being a problem and based on what he's shown us he's meeting the parking requirements and then some I would be surprised if you saw any parking taking place on the other streets here so I think he's gone out of his way to accommodate the neighborhood as best he can and I'm gonna go ahead and move to approve and Christian back for clarification are you recommending approval with conditions with the condition yes thank you we have a first for approval with conditions Commissioner Sanchez I second it I'd like to state and the reason I I'd like to mean that their apartments and they're gonna have some I know one of the big concerns was are they gonna have on-site management and they are and these are going to be apartments as opposed to I know we were shown some pictures about those condos down the down the road and I don't know if they have on-site management there so I yeah there's a big difference and those I've been through there and when I first saw him I was appalled that something like that was allowed because they it just didn't seem to me all the cars on the middle of the road on the side of the road and there were people couldn't drive through those roads through those through that street so I think what we're seeing all the concessions they've done bringing it from down to 12 units per acre is a lot of concessions there is some issues with with Audra and mingo and what's it mockingbird but I think I think those are gonna be those also going to be addressed you know in the future but I think they're doing an honest effort to to create some little be acceptable there in that area we have a first and a second for approval with conditions commissioner pernetta yeah I just wanted to say a few words on this one I want to thank the developer and everything for taking all the suggestions that came out of the last time you were here there was a lot of opposition to what you guys had been planning on doing and the fact that you got the number of units and everything down you know within the zoning showed you know a great deal of conscientiousness you know we had the questions about how parking would be impacted on this one and my mother-in-law lives not too far from there so I'm kind of used to driving around those areas and have seen that based on the plan that he's kind of presented and everything the entry paths into the community it seemed like they might mitigate the desire for other people to park you know and surrounding areas because it looks like it'd be kind of a inconvenient walk to go back from you know the adjacent blocks into there so I think that's a good thing for mitigation one of the other things I do hope you guys do you know is petition the city for sidewalks because I completely sympathize with that and I know a lot of the challenges that people face especially when you have a lot of children in that area so that doesn't fall into the purview of what we're doing here but you know by all means please seek that out because I would like to see that happen for your community thank you any other discussion on the item the only thing I would say is I'd echo Commissioner Pereta's thoughts I think there's some legitimate concerns from the neighborhood that that need to be addressed I hope they do get addressed with the sidewalks and a lot of other things but I I don't know the extent in which the developers being should be held responsible for that and I appreciate the feedback unfortunately it's not very often that the Commission here pushes back the developer responds with with such consideration to the neighborhood and the the feedback from the Commission so I appreciate that y'all coming back and being persistent to to take that land and make use of it but seeing no other discussion I'll call for a vote on the board motion carries six zero congratulations then real fast staff wanted to say something I just wanted to add on the sidewalk issue I know we have your your contact information I do know that there is a project funded through the through the COG Council of Governments it's a federally federally funded for improvement of the sidewalk network around the school and I know that there's a there's a portion of Audra I believe that's it that's part of that federally funded project I think it has a completion date of 2020 but we'll get all of that information send it to you and then we'll make sure that the Commission's also copied on it so just wanted to I think you have valid questions right now the forum this is not the appropriate forum but Ron's right behind you and I think that would be a great sidebar conversation he's the expert and so he can help you out thanks again for coming out that moves us to our closing item the planning and zoning matrix I'll first turn it to Richard for any clarification and then to the Commission for any additions the only item that that I wanted to update on here I know we have a lot of to be determined so we're trying to get some of those some of those items square squared up with some dates I know in the matrix were sort of down to down to four items with a lot of to be determined the item the small area plans I know we will come come back to that the the discussion item on maintaining the upland habitat habitats long term I know Deborah sort of spoke to that we also talked to her earlier we're gonna put a date of May with respect to that that's when she's planning on having the criteria manual presented in front of us so we'll just include a sort of a longer work session to ensure all of the questions are addressed as part of that some of the other items will again we'll start working on I know the the urban forest master plan that's getting ready to be kicked off so I did speak to Gary he wanted it to get a little bit further down down the road as far as getting at least it kicked off and then come back with sort of an update with respect to that just wanted to update you on a couple items from council last night the the tree code was was adopted the accessory dwelling cabana if you recall that was also approved as was the car wash the the SGP for the auto hail place across from City Hall that item was postponed the applicant was not there so they postponed the item until the applicant could be there they had some questions and the Audra Heights rezoning I think we saw some images tonight of the phase one that phase two that townhouse the rezoning to to increase that lot coverage that was denied by council last night and so just wanted to give a quick update on those items I'm sorry Audra Heights is the one on the north side of order down there the loop it correct so where the town homes were it was sort of if you take where it would dead end if you just loop that around right on the other on the east side they were planning I think it was 89 townhomes okay that was that was denied so it was denied it was it was denied okay so really they're there they're gonna read regroup and they have they really have two choices they can continue you know they went through preliminary plot they can continue with their with their their move forward with the final plat which would be brought back to or in front of in front of the Commission and then when they're ready to build it would either be a smaller footprint or they could go up to three stories or they could replat to larger lots but but really their impetus for it for the change if you recall was to increase the lot coverage from 60% to 80% and just to give you an idea that those that townhome project those were built to code and at 60 percent lot coverage that gives you any idea of kind of what that what that looks like are they aware of the consolidation of zoning can't they just wait six months and do what they want are they aware I mean they are but we still had we had part of that not really that discussion last night we were looking to have it at the next DC RC as to when a request for again this will be a policy decision that will have to be made as we get through the DDC update and adoption of the map but when there is a rezoning request denied should we then just automatically up up zone them if they were just denied less than less than a month and so that was something that that we had brought up didn't get into that discussion but I I'm sure it will be part of a discussion at the next DC RC and ultimately as we as we move it through adoption great thanks for the update because your Alice thank you first Richard thank you for updating us on council I love that so let's keep that going yeah I think that's a great idea yeah because sometimes you know we can't always watch the meetings or we don't have time to go back and watch the video so yeah thank you for that I guess with regard I don't know if this is a matrix item probably not but maybe just more food for thought for staff so just like when we saw Ryan Rhodes a neglect on that road and Hickory Creek and and everything that's that going on there with development this same area that we discussed tonight isn't exactly that same maybe worse because there's so much density there we have had so much activity with regard to zoning changes and SUPs and development going on at all that intersection that high density and nothing is being done with those roads and it's not even on the city's plan anywhere right now so I know with Ryan somehow you got that kind of moving I think we kind of need that to happen here as well yeah and we had a we have a sort of a bi-weekly meeting with with with the city manager and one of things he wanted to make sure we start including in our reports is since traffic really both both here and at City Council is always the biggest item point of discussion is to start to include just just an it you know a section on planned traffic improvements and and just to have that as part of that as part of that decision tree if you will and so as we start to move forward with with more of these requests we'll start to start to include that I can tell you for that for the Ryan Road Hickory Creek area that that study that feasibility study has started in fact we met on Monday morning with the consultant team to really just look at land use in the area and and and sort of projected growth to really look at sort of the 2040 potential build out to ensure that that really that planning is truly being done in conjunction with those traffic improvements improving that the network overall but yes we'll we'll include that so I have a couple things one Margie stole my things but the update from council fantastic thank you that's really helpful because I'm always not always but I'm sometimes curious with whatever happened to the other thing is is whoever added the addresses to the feedback notices on our map was really helpful to know a lot of these individuals who spoke we already had their addresses and so it's easy to see exactly where they were identify the map so I appreciate that extra efforts where it's possible I'm sure some maps will get really cluttered but it worked tonight and I appreciate that the only thing that I wanted to bring up for the matrix or to talk about is carrying on the torch or Chairman strange is there any momentum on looking at the economics of a project when it comes to us and there's an article in the paper about our sales tax dollars decreasing and so I think it's relevant to understand the actual impact of the city of a development coming in whether it's mixed-use potential sales tax revenue or household property tax revenue so I'd love to continue that pushing the conversation to see when we're looking at projects the actual economics or projected economics that have to the city I think would help complete as we look at traffic and we're looking at like a complete picture of what our city's doing I think that would be helpful yeah in fact that that's another at right right now we were looking at including that with with rezoning since it really is requesting more than what's what's permitted by right what we have we have one being done now for a project that's actually for a voluntary annexation and so as part of what they submitted we had asked that that they they provide us with a a sort of benefit cost benefit or economic analysis so we can really start to understand what it would cost to serve if you will that really came out at a council meeting both it was a charge from from the from the city manager as well as in council brought that up if you remember the rezoning and SUP for the mobile home community off of off of McKinney and so those are those are things we're starting to work back in included and just coming up with it with those criteria I know finance has been working on sort of a model just trying to plug those numbers in so we can just better inform everyone so that that will be coming in also in the near future great fantastic anyone else want to add anything to the matrix or have any talking points all right with that so you know further discussion I'll close the meeting at 759