>> That sounds cool though, right?
>> Good morning.
We're on.
>> Good morning.
>> Welcome to this broadcast of the Mobility Committee meeting
at 9 a.m. at March 20th.
We have a quorum present.
Before we dive into items for individual consideration,
I just want to comment that I went to a community meeting
that staff held regarding an item that's coming up,
and I just want to really praise staff for their diligence
and creativity and for the community's interest
in coming together to, you know, resolve what seemed
like an irresolvable dispute.
We'll get to talk about it later,
but I just think it was a great moment for Denton.
So I'll start with the item A, consider approval
of the Mobility Committee meeting minutes of February 12th.
>> I move approval.
>> I don't think, I don't know if I can second or.
>> You can second.
>> Sure.
>> I'll second.
And move on to item B.
>> Okay. Let's just leave them at that.
>> Oh, so it's.
>> So moved.
>> All in favor?
>> Aye.
>> Aye. Thank you.
>> I'm glad we got through the controversial items.
Item B, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding updates
in the Denton County Transportation Authority.
We do have a blue card wishing to speak,
so let's hear the presentation and then take it from there.
>> Sure.
>> And thank you so much for joining us.
>> Thank you.
My name's Nicole Recker.
I'm the Vice President of Marketing Communications for DCTA.
I am here in lieu of Sarah Begheri,
who was unable to make the meeting today.
So I will provide the committee with just a brief
update of some of the things that we are doing at DCTA.
Locally specifically, the Thinline Film Festival is
coming up, and DCTA is providing a free ride program
from April 10th to April 13th on both our A-Train service
as well as our Connect bus service with the event to one,
help with parking mitigation, but also to encourage those
to use transit to get to all the different locations.
Similarly, like we did for last year's Denton Arts
and Jazz Festival, we are providing a shuttle service.
Last year, we provided a shuttle service that hubbed
out of our Med Park station.
We did hear feedback that it'd be great if there was a north
location for a park and ride, so we are identifying those
locations right now, but we do hope to provide 30-minute
headway frequency for shuttle service for the event on
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, as well as complimentary
A-Train service to encourage folks to take the train up,
'cause we do know that parking is an issue.
In addition, with Denton Arts and Jazz, we have been
working with the city, the Civic Center will be closed
that Saturday, that is the Saturday during early voting,
so we are working with the city to create some materials
that showcase how individuals can use our existing routes
from Quaker Town Park to get to additional early voting
locations, and so we will work in tandem with the city
to make sure that people have a lot of opportunity there.
We are in the process right now of our August 2019
service changes, these service changes will be pretty big
in DCTA history, we are looking at increasing our midday
A-Train frequency, so a lot of the feedback that we hear
from the community is that they need more options
for transit on the A-Train during that lunchtime break,
and so we are looking and currently modeling that,
we have run tests on that midday train service,
and so we hope to go ahead and add that in using
our existing operating budget, we will take that out
to the public in May for feedback, and then make any
adjustments or modifications necessary to that service
so that we can go ahead and launch that in conjunction
with the start of school in August.
So that's a pretty big change.
Looking ahead, in January 2020, we will also conduct
some service changes, and that's where we're primarily
looking at the Denton Connect bus service in ways
that we can institute on-demand zones in the area
to provide more real-time service, make it a little bit
more cost-effective, and so those are things
that we're currently looking at right now,
but then we will start to model once those August
service changes go into effect.
From a more of a regional and agency perspective,
we are meeting all of our deadlines with positive
train control, which is the EATC system that we use
for a safety mechanism along our A train.
It forces operators to maintain the proper speeds
that are necessary, make sure that crossing systems
are working appropriately, things of that nature,
and so that is a federally mandated initiative.
We are the first in Texas to be fully operating
that PTC system in revenue service demonstration
on our entire line, so nationwide, we're in the top third
of agencies who are meeting that federal mandate,
and so currently, you might see or you might have heard
that we are running trains on Sunday, and that is,
those are not passenger trains, those, we're actually
running those to test that PTC system, so we're almost
complete with that revenue service demonstration,
and then we'll be able to go ahead and put that
into our normal operating schedule, and we're slated
right now that probably summer of next year
is when the FRA will certify our PTC system,
so we're well ahead of the curve, which is quite
a big accomplishment for agencies across the nation.
And then lastly, we will be hosting some transportation
forums, we're slating them for late summer of this year,
and that's really an opportunity for us to gather
stakeholders, decision makers within the entire region
along the I-35E corridor to talk about not only
mobility solutions, but also economic development
opportunities in ways that we can really spur business
and mobility solutions with the increasing boom
that's happening in this area, so certainly we will
be working with the City of Denton to ensure
that those invites are sent out, potentially have
a speaker from the City of Denton to come and sit
on our panel, and so we're really looking forward
to that opportunity and spearheading that discussion.
- I wonder if, if you might be able,
for the items that, where you're looking for public,
for the public to know, like the forums,
the support for rides to the poles,
the participation with the Thinline Festival,
there's, if you have press releases--
- Yes, we do.
- And maybe go into the Friday report?
Yeah, oh, great, okay, 'cause--
- And they work very, sorry, they work very closely
with our Public Communications Office to make sure
that that's not only advertised, that we kind of co-market
those programs and activities, so it'll be
in the Friday pack.
- I just know council members help spread the word too.
- Absolutely.
- Any comments before we take a public comment, or?
- Is it too early to comment on the trails opening day?
- No, absolutely.
- Just to kind of get it out there a little bit?
- Yeah, absolutely.
- Since it's coming up soon, would you make a comment?
- Sure, so April 13th, which is a Saturday,
is the National Opening Trails Day.
There is a national website that exists,
and we are, DCTA is partnering with the city of Denton,
the city of Highland Village, the city of Lewisville,
as well as Lake Dallas, Corinth, to kind of host
that opening day on the rail trail,
which is almost complete, that 21 miles that runs
from Denton all the way down to Trinity Mills.
There's a portion between the Highland Village,
Lewisville Lake Station, and the Old Town Station
that is not complete, but is under construction.
And so we're working with all of the cities.
All the cities are going to have representation
out on the trail.
We are partnering to kind of get the word out,
let people know it's just an opportunity to learn
about that amenity that is provided.
We have a lot of folks right now that use it for walking,
running, strolling with their children,
access to our A train stations.
And so we're partnering with all of the cities
along that corridor to spearhead that event.
And so there will be a tent set up at each
of kind of the trailhead locations along that trail,
starting in Denton and then all the way down
to the Highland Village, Lewisville Lake Station.
And so we encourage people to come on out.
It starts at nine o'clock in the morning.
We will share information with the city of Denton
so that they can share that.
That's coming probably at the end of this week.
So we're really excited about the event.
It's the first time that we are participating
in this national event, and we're just really excited
about it.
- Awesome. - Thank you.
- You're welcome.
- We do have a blue card wishing to speak.
If you'll come up to the podium,
state your name and address.
Your time will begin.
Let's go with four minutes, speaker's option.
I mean, chair's option.
- Good morning.
Diana Leggett, 1019 Aline Street, here in Denton.
As you know, I'm running for city council district three.
And I'm really glad that I get to be here with DCTA
because this is exactly what I wanted to talk about.
As you know, I'm block walking in my district.
And I grew up in a city that has incredible rapid
transportation, multimodal,
and everything from trolley cars to little tiny vans
that go buzzing around neighborhoods.
The people in my neighborhood are not happy with DCTA,
and they want to be.
They want to be more involved with what's going on
at Razor Ranch.
And I think it would be very simple to change some routes
for the UNT Discovery bus, and maybe I think it's route seven.
And this is around the University of Malone,
Ector, Bonnie Bray area.
Because as you know, our parks are getting upgraded,
which is wonderful.
But there's so many new amenities at Razor Ranch,
and they just feel like they can't access them,
particularly those that have limited transportation.
So I thought it would be a nice thing to bring up,
and I know you'd incorporate it in your plan.
- Absolutely.
- That's all I have to say.
Thank you very much.
- Citizen action right here, awesome.
Thank you.
All right, so welcome, John.
Let's move on to item C.
Oh, wait, do we have anything for John?
Do you have anything that I'd like to say?
Based on your study of the comments
that I'm sure you were listening to somehow on the way,
that DCTA, there is a way to do that.
- There's not a way to do that.
We're on the net, we're not on the radio.
- I'll just share with you that it was a really charming
presentation of some great things coming up
with related to safety and public forums
and support for rights to the polls
and participation in thin line
and two things too numerous to mention.
But if there's anything you wanted to ask
while we have Ms. Rucker here, we're good.
- Mr. Chairman, may I say one statement about DCTA?
- Please.
- We just, while Nicole's here,
I do want to send a shout out to her and her team.
We had a conference call last Friday
with the coordinators of Arts and Jazz Fest
about the remote parking over at Med Park
and the shuttle and the train service.
So I believe last year was the first year
we've incorporated that.
So we're starting to get numbers last year
and hopefully this year will be better.
If we have great weather, obviously the crowds
will get bigger as it does every year.
And so we're looking at, again,
continuing to enhance that service.
And so they're seeking feedback.
We're providing feedback,
working with the coordinators of Arts and Jazz Fest
to make sure that that service is seamless as possible
and to encourage the public
because parking is always an issue here in this vicinity
to park remotely and we can get,
and they, DCTA, can get folks to and from the venue
safely and close to the venue.
So we're working very closely with them
and hopefully exploring some additional options
if it becomes available.
So we have more than just that option
on the south side of the community,
maybe some northern options too.
But we're looking toward,
they're looking towards that as well.
- I have a question to that point
because we don't just want the people in our city
to use the train.
We want people from other cities
to use the train to get in.
So this may be a question more
for the arts and jazz community
or for our economic development or city
as far as advertising or marketing goes.
Are we marketing in the other cities as well,
our arts and jazz and the train?
I know that when I get in the train in other cities,
they have billboards just so if someone's on the train
and they can read that that is gonna happen,
the free service.
So I don't know if that is something that y'all do
or I'm just-- - Sure.
We partner with Denton Arts and Jazz Festival
to communicate.
So they work specifically with the Denton CBB
to promote the event.
And just in my close workings with the CBB,
I do know that they do promote beyond just Denton.
But we specifically leverage our partnership with DART
to make sure that like on the Go Pass app
where you can purchase a mobile train pass or bus pass
that we list Denton Arts and Jazz as a regional event
that you can come and attend.
So that what is one of the ways that we do reach
those who are outside of our service area
who are already transit riders.
But we also include it in all of our blog posting
and all of our advertising efforts,
which do reach beyond the A train corridor
specifically for that reason.
To draw people in who aren't from the area,
maybe they start at the A train location
or they're starting at Trinity Mills,
but then they're able to utilize the A train
to get up here and then get to events.
And that really extends beyond just Denton Arts and Jazz,
but any of the events that happen in Denton
or any of our member cities,
we use that same type of methodology in our communication.
- Okay, thank you.
- You're welcome to come anytime,
even when Sarah Begheri is here.
And I think it's great.
This mobility committee is becoming super popular,
so it's a great way to get the word out.
Thank you very much for coming this morning.
- Absolutely.
- So I'll close that item then
and then move on to item C,
which is receive an updated report and hold a discussion
regarding the North Central Texas Council
of Governments Policy Bundle Program.
(papers rustling)
- Good morning, Chair and committee members.
My name is Katherine Welch.
I work with Capital Projects,
and we are going to be giving you another update today
on the status of this policy bundle program.
So to start, this is the same slide
y'all have seen the past presentations,
but what it is is Council of Governments
has a set of policies they recommend
in their Metropolitan Transportation Plan
for entities to adopt.
And in this program, if an entity voluntarily adopts
at least 50% of the policies,
then the entity is eligible
for transportation development credits.
And there's gonna be a slide in a little bit
going over more about how those credits can be used.
So that's just the quick overview of the program.
Once again, these are the areas that the policies cover,
ultimately going towards transportation related policies.
So good news.
The early deadline for this policy bundle program
was March 15th.
We got our application submitted for the early deadline.
These are the list of policies that we,
after coordination with CAW,
got confirmation that we are meeting
based on what we're doing.
We submitted all the documentation.
And between now and April 15th,
which is the final deadline,
we're gonna be getting feedback from CAW
basically saying if we're missing anything
or they have any questions, we can give clarification.
So we got it submitted this past Friday.
And so I think we should be hearing feedback
this coming week on their initial review
of our documentation.
So that's the list and we've gone over those
in a little more detail in those past sessions.
And so just wanted to reiterate the schedule.
So March 15th and April 15th
are the early and final deadlines.
We found out from Council of Governments
that July, August timeframe will be when they announce
who has received the credits
and how much each entity will get.
So we should be hearing from them then on granting them.
And then the next transportation improvement program tip mod
which these credits can be applied to a project
that we submit in a tip mod will be in November.
That would be the earliest possible timeframe
we could get a project in.
However, that tip mod does begin that process
and planning begins months in advance.
So it may end up being the cycle after the November tip mod
that this may become more practical
to get the credits used.
So that's a timeline there.
And so y'all had asked in the past for a little more detail
about what these transportation development credits are.
And so basically if we get federal funding
for a transportation project,
typically the federal funding has to cover 80,
covers 80% of the overall cost
and the city has to provide 20% local match.
With these development credits,
they can be applied to that local match
so that the city no longer has to provide that local match
and the federal funding will take place.
I did hear from council of governments
that we have to get notification to them of the project
we wish to use these towards very early in the discussion.
So when we're seeking out federal funding,
we need to already have an idea that,
hey, this is a project we wanna use our transportation
development credits for and let them know ahead of time
we're gonna need you to seek out that additional 20% match
and it'll cover the entire project.
It's kind of the process there.
And question?
- Great, no, just happiness, great source of funding.
- Do those credits expire?
So what I've heard and John may be able to speak on this
is every year, so if we're granted credits,
my understanding is they don't expire
but we have to reapply every year
to continue using the credits already granted.
So if we don't use our full amount in that first year,
we have to apply next year to continue using
the amount we were granted.
- That's great.
So essentially you don't have to resubmit
all of your policies.
I got the green light on.
- Yeah, but your mic is a little far from, there you go.
I know your voice carries, but.
- I'm not technically proficient.
So you don't have to go through the process
of getting your policies validated again,
but you do have, annually have to come back
and ask to use, to get those credits back
for other projects and they're very strict
on what you can and can't use them on.
So it's a tool that's been helpful
in the past in other areas.
Yeah, it's an annual, it's an annual re-up.
- So we're definitely putting like a tickler note
in the calendar, yeah.
- Yes, and actually last week I found out,
so they based their credit allocation
on the size of the city and so work,
from the person I spoke with,
we're considered a small size city.
So this round, if we do get the granting of the credits,
we'll get 750,000 development credits
and that equates to about 3.75 million federal dollars
that can ultimately be used towards that local match,
but we would have to ask for that 80% federal funding
to go along with that.
So we'd have up to 3.75 to use towards that,
what we would originally have paid as a 20% local match.
- I'm guessing there's no shortage of opportunities
for us to apply for and use this funding.
- Absolutely, we've identified many projects
that we can move forward with.
- That's great.
- So that's a little bit more about the credits.
And then something that y'all have brought up in the past
is wanting to potentially look into policies
that we're not meeting or that we could be doing more on
with their 21 recommended policies
and kind of look at them in future sessions,
get some more research on them
and maybe have some strategies
on how we can start implementing them.
So we wanted to provide a list up here
of some of the areas that we're not necessarily meeting
or could be doing more for.
So we've got a list up here.
We can go through each one and give a brief description
or if you have any questions,
but we wanted to get input on what you may wanna see
in future sessions.
- So my, you know,
input us in supporting you doing this
is to say, let it be inspiration, you know,
are these good ideas,
like if we hadn't had them on our radar before, you know,
sort of thanks to NCTCOG for giving us the idea,
but do you find these compelling as a starting point,
you know, just from a recommendation point,
are these things that you feel, you know,
not just that we're deficient from NCTCOG's point of view,
but are they actually areas that, you know,
from a policy point of view,
you feel would be beneficial to them?
- I think there are quite a few on this list.
To begin, I think we have some parking issues
and parking management could be one of them
that we can focus on.
Employee trip reduction is great since DCT is here.
It would be a good partnership to see what we can do
not only for our employees,
but employees of businesses that come within,
start businesses here in the city.
So yes, some of them are really relevant.
The traffic incident management,
we're approaching to that.
We're trying to reach that goal
by having a central command center for the traffic.
And then we manage incident better
and communicate with fire and PD in case of emergency.
So we are trying to get there.
And yes, these are good things for the city
and we'll slowly try to achieve them.
- Just 'cause I'm talking doesn't mean,
feel free to jump in any time.
You know, can you, in terms of,
let's say severity or potential impact,
you know, is there any kind of rank order prioritization
that you might recommend to us?
You know, like what do you think are the most pressing
or biggest opportunities?
- Well, we can start with the easiest one to tackle first
that we were out of it.
- That's a different question, but okay.
- That's the approach I was thinking of is more on
what can be easily knocked out by smaller steps
and it's not a big burden.
But some of them are a big burden,
meaning you have to really have plans in place.
You have to really do the studies.
You have to have a lot of backup information
to implement them.
So, but the, some of the first ones,
the employee trip reduction program,
we can internally start looking at stuff.
And it seems that that one and the wrong way driving
are fairly straightforward.
- Different question.
- Yeah, just about the top one,
because we did recently hear that our vehicle miles per travel
has increased emissions in our area significantly
after several years of reduction.
Last year was an increase.
And so I think that focusing on that one,
not only will help us here,
but the city in general overall.
And so I'm glad DCTA is here.
And I, you know, I'm not sure what the requirements are
for disqualification into the program,
but I feel like there's other opportunities,
even if we don't meet all the requirements
for it to be integrated into this program,
that there's certain things that we could do
just to get more cars off the road with the chamber and,
you know, DCTA.
- Definitely, so what I would suggest is
if we can bring that one item in a couple of months back
and see what we have and how we can implement it,
or what are ways of getting that.
- And I will say that DCTA does have
an existing employer pass program
where we offer discounts based on how many employees
are taking part of the actual purchase of the pass.
And that can be one employee,
and that can be 500 plus, a thousand plus employees.
So we do have that program in place,
and we recently reduced all of our fares, our local fares.
So that discount is now on top
of the already discounted lower fares.
So it ends up being a really affordable option,
but DCTA is absolutely willing to work with the city
to see what we can provide to help with that item.
- Good.
- So in my other life, just go ahead.
In my other life, I used to do trip reduction programs
for private sector out in California
because they have a requirement
that if you have employees of say 100 employees,
you have to show an ability for at least 10% of your employees
to get to work with some other than an SOV.
And then they give you credits for stuff like having showers
and bike racks at your appointed place
so that people do come to the workplace on a bicycle
to have a place to freshen up.
They give you a certain number of credits for those employees.
If you have certain parking spots
that have electric vehicle charging stations,
if you buy, pay for bus stops near your location,
it's a credit.
So there's a whole series of things
that when you say employee trip reduction,
it's a pretty broad spectrum of things you can do
just besides no offense, give them a transit pass.
- That's great input.
Yeah, having now had a moment to contemplate the question
about my own question about prioritization.
Quick one's great, but sort of beyond that,
if the others require greater investment,
I'd say if there's, and I'm saying this for the,
to hear my colleagues' reactions as well,
I'd say if there's a serious safety issue
that's not addressed here, if it really isn't an issue,
or it's really only minor, then not.
But if there's a substantive safety issue,
I think you'd have to prioritize that.
And then I would go to a very important
kind of convenience issue like parking management
after safety issues.
That's the sequence I would recommend taking them in.
Any other thoughts?
- Yeah, and on that note, one thing with like,
for example, employee trip reduction that may be,
- Yeah, that's a quick one, so I understand that.
- Yeah, and one really cool thing about the application
is when they're asking you these questions for the survey,
they ask for points of contact in the organization
and say, do you want to be sent information?
Do you want to be sent processes to help get you started?
And so we definitely checked yes on all of that
just to be given that information.
So through that survey, we'll be getting some resources
through CAWG, but we can definitely prioritize
the safety and convenience in the next work session item
if that's what y'all would like.
- We can bring this back in a couple months.
- Other thoughts?
So safety first.
- Safety first, okay, cool.
And I think that's all we have for you today.
- Any other questions?
Okay, great, thank you so much.
- Thank you very much.
- Great progress, and I'll close out that item then.
And I'll open item D, receive a report
and hold a discussion about
current transportation alternatives set aside,
safe routes to school and congestion mitigation
and air quality city grants.
- Good morning, Mark Oliphant,
Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the city.
Hello, I'm gonna talk about some grants
that we've received in the past few years.
These are three grants.
We're working through the Council of Governments,
TxDOT, and TxDOT, they're actually federal grants.
They total a little, about two and a half million dollars.
And the city's portion to pay for that is about $500,000.
They're good grants that will provide
safer routes to get to schools,
and also a better way for UNT students
to get to and from the Downtown Denton Transit Center.
We have had some delays on these grants,
so initially, before I even got here last July,
everything was signed and sealed,
and then TxDOT returned them to us
because they had some minor changes,
and we made those changes.
We sent them back to TxDOT in early September of 2018,
and it took three to six months
to get those agreements back to us
in their executed form.
Unfortunately, once we got them,
then we sent them our initial payments and so forth.
About two weeks ago, I met with TxDOT with our new,
I don't remember your title, Robin,
but our new team leader for the Traffic Engineering Division
to talk about this, so.
- I think it's Empress, the title's Empress.
(laughing)
- I'll go for that.
So down here, this is the caveat that's important.
So we had that meeting, we thought we're good to go,
we're having a great meeting,
and then we started talking about the schedule.
And so working with COG, we had, six weeks ago or something,
sent them updates about our schedule
because it wasn't happening last year.
And what that did is it moved some of the money
to the new fiscal year for these grants.
And COG has to now approve of that,
and then they send it to FHWA for approval.
And that could take extra time
that we were not planning on.
We are trying to think about workarounds
and things like that.
But we're doing what we can,
and there's just been some delays, unfortunately,
but projects will happen.
- Question?
- Well, just, I mean, you see the date 2019, 2020,
but I just want to say that some of these things,
when I was elected in 2015, we were a go.
We were talking about it in Mobility Committee.
So, I mean, it's been a really long time.
And so I know that we have someone that may have a little,
do you have any more information?
Or is this all it?
I'm just...
- I text out?
Oh, okay.
- That's great.
Thank you for offering.
- 'Cause, yeah, my question was gonna be,
is there anything we can do about it?
Is there anyone we can speak to?
- Yeah, I didn't know that was an option,
but thank you for that, yeah.
- I just want to follow up.
I mean, it is safe routes to school.
And we have identified these locations
because our kids aren't getting to school safely.
So, I mean, it's not like it's just a want project.
It's a need project.
And it's something that we've been waiting on
for a really long time.
So, and I appreciate you guys doing all that you can,
but it's still, it's a long time.
- I agree.
I mean, I think we, the city, have done pretty darn well.
I mean, I, you know, maybe we did 90%.
We could have done 100, but yes, I agree, and we're.
- Well, and there's a new step to take.
- Yeah, yeah, we have a new, thank you, yeah.
- Much appreciated.
Any other questions or comments?
- Thank you for the update.
- Thank you.
So.
- Oh, I do actually have one more question.
Because when I shared this with Pecan Creek
and I copied you guys on some emails,
there was information that someone from the past,
the city, had made an agreement with the neighborhood
not to do a certain type of sidewalk
or leave certain trees when they did the sidewalk.
And I just want to follow up that that's been acknowledged
and would be.
- So, you, yes, we reached out to the.
Yeah, there are multiple people.
We reached out to the resident.
Mark had a good discussion with them.
And their understanding was, yes,
they were expecting some pervious pavement.
Sidewalk on the east side of Swisher Road.
And there are some challenges, engineering-wise,
to implement some of the things that are mentioned
in the email from the resident and the discussion with them.
In the agreement itself, it just talks about sidewalk.
So there's some sort of discrepancy.
But what we're trying to do is set up a meeting
for the community to go over what was agreed
and what their impression of what was promised
when the actual zoning took place
and the whole thing was incorporated within the city.
So we're setting up a meeting, working with PIO,
and then we'll go over specifics
and we'll discuss some of the challenges that we have.
- I know the main issue
was that there's some large trees there.
- Correct.
- So if there's an option to work around.
- That's the challenge.
It's the right of way that we own in that area
and then the trees that are just within the right of way
so there is no space.
It's a challenging area.
- Correct, and as Preetan mentioned,
in the agreement, the information that we saw
that was agreed, the annexation agreement,
it actually described it as a pedestrian path,
but it doesn't describe what type of path,
pervious or impervious.
So we do need to work with the neighborhoods
to explain what are the pros and cons,
ADA-accessible issues are a problem,
being a pervious path.
So there are just some challenges
and it may not qualify for some of these grant programs
if it's not ADA-accessible.
- I wasn't sure if you guys were aware of that or not,
so I wanted to--
- We're on it.
- I had a time before because I hadn't--
- Oh no, I think it was as a result of the email
that came through, it's where we kind of were made aware
and so we read through the agreement
and try to work with the neighborhoods to meet with them
and again, try to just work through the process.
- Thank you, I appreciate that, thanks.
- This will really make Denton better.
It's really worth it, I know it feels defeating,
but let's take a really big swing at it, thanks.
So we're gonna close this item.
Before I open the next item,
just in the interest of transparency,
I'm gonna explain my actions a little bit.
I actually, when this item came up before,
personally from this seat directed, go negotiate with UNT
and I really just made a mistake.
I just didn't even think about the fact
that my wife is a professor there in regards to this.
I have not yet figured out a way to profit somehow
from UNT interactions with my wife
being a creative writing professor.
If somebody thinks of one, let me know,
but now that I've been made aware,
I can't sort of pretend I'm not aware
and it's a direct, an option that's gonna be discussed,
it's going to involve directly negotiating with UNT.
So I'm gonna step out and also for those who came in earlier
and didn't hear my comments, I'll just repeat my praise
for not just staff but also the community
and working so hard with each other
and communicating with each other
to try to come to a resolution.
I think it's been really ultimately a high point
for Denton, the way people have kind of found a way
to work together and kind of solve problems mutually.
So with that, I'm gonna step out.
I'll say one last thing.
My name is Meltzer, Metzler is the barbecue people.
They spell it wrong.
(laughs)
- Oh, and who's vice chair?
- I don't remember.
- You're not vice chair?
- Yeah.
- Okay, so here's some blue cards
for folks that want some.
- Okay.
All right, we'll do staff presentation on the item
and then we'll hear from the public at that.
So we will open item E, receive a report,
hold discussion, provide staff with direction
regarding options for accommodating bicycle lanes
and on Hickory Street while retaining parking
for local businesses.
- Thank you, Vice Chair Ryan.
Mark Ollivant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator
for the city.
So the Hickory Bike Lane, this is another saga in the city,
but I think we are coming to an exciting point
in the development of this project.
So recently we have narrowed down our options
to two different options, option two and option three.
I'm gonna talk about option three first,
which is a cycle track or sidewalk
on the south side of Hickory Street
between Avenue B and Avenue A.
This option, this was preferred by some members
of the Mobility Committee because it would preserve parking
on Hickory Street and it would allow cyclists
to still go through that area.
Recently, the city manager and assistant city manager
met with UNT to discuss this option
and what has happened is UNT,
well, I originally contacted them
and they said not really interested,
but we upped our representation,
we sent over our higher level negotiators
and UNT did come back and say,
well, we would be willing to consider this,
but we wanna talk about a few things.
They want to see a design for it,
they want to see a tree preservation plan
and then they wanna take it to their board of regents
or board of regents in August for consideration.
So it is still a possibility though it would require
that adds the amount of money that we would need
and it adds the amount of time before it could be done.
But so right now I am focusing on this option two
and change to Avenue A and Mulberry
and essentially what we're proposing,
here's a little bubble diagram,
what we're proposing is that we change Mulberry Street
and Avenue A from two-way streets as they are currently
to one-way streets in the direction of the arrows
and those blue blocks would become on-street parking
in that area.
And so instead of losing parking on the south side
of Hickory in order to accommodate a bike lane there,
what we do is we just move that parking
onto Mulberry and Avenue A.
We can do this without having any net loss
of parking in the area.
The next slide is a little more detailed graphic,
it's hopefully you can see in the red.
So what we're gonna do is mirror the diagonal parking
on Avenue A on the west side
and we, on the south side of Mulberry,
we will put on-street parking, parallel parking there.
And a few small other details up here
will bulb out the curb so that folks coming south on Frye
have a visual reminder that they can't go straight there.
And so this requires some coordination with others
One thing that will also have to happen
is currently buses go back, buses go down this way currently
and so they will have to go straight on Mulberry
and right on Welch over there.
And so we will have to modify this intersection.
This is how it is currently, one lane southbound
but two lanes northbound and what we will do,
and this is actually part of one of those grants as well,
the Sycamore-Welch improvements,
is that center lane there, the left northbound lane,
will become a median and we'll probably also shave off
part of the corner but we will make accommodations
so that buses can make that right turn.
Currently it's a very tight turn
and bus drivers are not comfortable making it
but so in concert with those other changes,
we would modify this so that the buses can turn right there.
Oh, we talked about the angled parking.
This is really the most important slide for us
is that all of the different stakeholders we have met with
and we met with DCTA, UNT, the business owners in the area,
bicycle advocates, city fire, city police
about what might be the potential ramifications
and there are a few concerns here and there
or they responded, well, as long as we can take care of X
or Y, this might work and so we feel
in transportation engineering that this is feasible.
It will serve the needs of both the merchants in the area
and the cyclists who are looking for a continuous
and contiguous route from west to east in town
and yeah, so we have talked to all of them
and hopefully there's no major changes.
I know there's some folks in the audience
who represent some of those groups
but this has been by far the best received
and actually not just that it doesn't have negatives to it
but for a number of stakeholders that are actually positive.
As we talk to the police, they continuously have worries
about traffic on Avenue A and Mulberry
because of the restaurants and bars there
and people walking through that area late at night
and they might be inhibited
and so from their perspective, it's really a good thing
and we think we can improve the crossing right
where Mulberry and Avenue A come together
'cause there are some concerns currently
about pedestrian visibility.
So overall, this is really looking like a very promising
option to us and yeah.
- Okay, got some more briefs.
- Yeah, I have a few questions.
- Sure.
- So where would the bike traffic go
if they're on Fry heading in to campus
since that's a one-way street?
Would they have to turn on Hickory?
Would they go down to Welch and then go down
so instead of going straight into campus?
- That is one option.
They could turn left on Hickory and go south on Welch.
Another option, there are details that we haven't worked out
is that this is an extremely wide sidewalk.
It's something like 15 feet
and so you could have a seven-foot bike lane
going south on one side there
but it is on the sidewalk.
It's a possibility of something
that we'd have to talk to the university about and so forth
but just being out there, it's a very wide sidewalk
and that would be something I would suggest to them
so it should be implemented.
- Well, I would also think that would be good.
That way it could just go straight through
instead of pushing the bikes on to Welch
where the buses are.
I mean, if we're pushing the buses there, it's--
- The Welch improvements to the will,
it will go to one lane with a bike lane on the outside so--
- Okay, so it'd be another option?
- Mm-hmm, both will be better.
- Okay, so that's the bike question
and I think maybe if there's enough room
then I'd like to explore that sidewalk thing.
My other, so what about the loading zone
because I think there's loading zones currently
where the parking will be so what,
and that was brought up before,
where will the trucks or--
- Yeah, so a couple thoughts.
Currently, this is all supposed to be loading zone.
UNT enforces it.
They say if a car has a Jimmy John sign on top
or delivery or something, they let 'em,
don't give 'em tickets or anything.
One thing that has been suggested
is changing that turn lane to the north
is perhaps changing that into a loading zone.
There are options for accommodating them.
We haven't gotten to that granularity.
I know it's a concern or pretend we haven't.
- Pretend they spoke, traffic engineer.
One of the things that we're looking at,
currently this area will result in 20 spaces.
There are eight spaces today that are used for loading.
So out of the 20, we're anticipating
that eight will be provided as loading zones
that would be given back to the businesses
so the Jimmy Johns and the delivery cars can still use that.
This area will be two spaces as well.
These can be converted for bigger trucks as a loading area.
So we are giving back approximately eight spaces
to the loading area so they will be marked loading.
And then 16, and then the remaining 14,
I'm sorry, 12, I'm not getting my math.
12 and then remaining 16 on this
will counter the 29 that we have.
So that was the whole idea that the loading
will be maintained, it'll still remain on site,
but then we'll have the additional spaces
that balance the parking laws.
- Okay, can you talk about,
so they'll be parking on Mulberry?
- Correct, yes. - That isn't there now?
- Yes. - Okay, parallel parking?
- Parallel parking.
There are 16 spaces of parallel parking right here.
It says 16 spaces up and down.
And then there are 20 total all the way here,
including these two parallel.
Out of the 20, we'll use eight for loading zone.
- Okay, do you mind if I, I just have a few more.
Okay, so all of that is great.
What about enforcement of that?
Will that be a UNT responsibility or a city responsibility?
How are we going to, after we do all of this,
how are we going to guarantee that those spots
are open and moving and not parked in all day by students
so that the businesses can benefit from them?
- So right now, we do not have an agreement
with UNT for this portion.
These are brand new spaces that we've done.
I think we have some agreement for this loading area.
We don't have parking agreement.
We will work with UNT for enforcement.
They're already enforcing spaces along Hickory Street.
And I know there are some concerns about that,
but we are open to options as far as enforcement.
I mean, the city can take over,
but our enforcement staff is minimal.
So it would be very difficult for us to enforce.
So we are looking at options.
At this point, we don't know.
- Has the possibility of meters been talked about again?
- No, now UNT has gotten rid of meters.
They will not service meters.
That's not an option for them to enforce.
- Did they use the app?
- Correct.
- Okay.
Two other things.
So the bike lane, if this option is done,
the bike lane will still have,
will it have the separators?
- Yes, it will have a two-foot buffer
where we can provide different types of separators.
We've talked about curbs.
We've talked about the meters that are two feet high.
So all of that is definitely, will be included.
- And the last thing is that in part of our options,
we had a intersection kind of upgrade safety for Fry
and Hickory there, kind of where it's the,
I think the side, the crosswalks got wider.
There was a little bit of calming going on.
Is that part of this plan at all?
Or is there any of that, any of those,
the bump outs or anything that are going to be
with this option?
- They are not because they need to be designed.
They're not as part of the Hickory,
current Hickory Street project, the way it is designed.
Some minor changes with this layout
may be incorporated quickly,
but bump outs at these locations,
these are older intersections with a lot of utilities.
So they need to be really designed
in order to move forward with some of the improvements
that we're talking about.
So it's currently not included in the budget
or the project that's underway.
- Okay.
- I've got one major question.
What's the justification for taking the one way
in that direction as opposed to the other?
And 'cause as I see it,
if we're trying to help the businesses in that area,
now a person is going to have to understand
that they have to go down to Welch
and circle back around Mulberry and back up to Avenue A
to get to that, as opposed to you turn the corner
and you, and there's your parking spaces.
- So--
- And you are now, you've got a signal intersection there
A and fry that the attention span, when you see a light,
you're not paying attention to other things.
You're not having to come to a complete stop
that if you're going the other direction,
when you get to Mulberry Welch,
that's, I believe it's just Mulberry that stops.
So you're gonna come to a complete stop.
You're gonna be looking both ways.
You're gonna look across and see the one way sign.
- So the consideration for this direction
of flow was some of this parking here,
as well as this angle parking.
We will, would have had to reconfigure the whole thing.
It would have been a much larger project, first thing.
The second thing is, yes, if this is properly signed
in Stripe, we can provide signage
and pull this curb forward.
That way it's a bigger indication
that you're not allowed to enter.
And once you have a sign here that says no entry
and a signal that just shows our left turn arrow
as opposed to a green ball, that would help.
So there are certain enhancements
that are planned as part of this project,
replacing some of the signal heads.
So we'll make sure that people understand clearer.
And there'll be a period of learning, of course,
but I mean, every year you get new students
driving this area.
- Yes, there'll be a period of learning
for about a month, three times every year.
I know 'cause it used to end as a one-way,
used to be two-way once you got past Avenue C, Jay Go.
And the police sat on that corner
for the first two weeks of every semester,
waiting for people to go the wrong way.
And that's why when I talk about a signal intersection,
people don't pay attention to it as closely as what they do.
If they have to come to a complete stop
and look for cross traffic,
and as they're looking, they'll notice those other signs.
- We'll provide appropriate signage.
- Yes.
- Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point
because part of when I was talking to some of the businesses,
they said that right there at Frye and Hickory,
the traffic backs up anyway because of the light.
And a lot of that right turn on Avenue A
is the flow through to keep the traffic
from being so heavy through there.
But when you said it would be a larger project,
like, what would that entail?
I mean--
- That would entail redoing the entire curb
and gutter driveways, this angle parking,
and then also looking at redoing this area
because this is a 90-degree parking in
starting at this point.
So we haven't looked at the actual cost estimates
for changing the direction.
But generally speaking, traffic-wise,
this sounds like a relatively
fluid way of flowing traffic.
One of the things I do want to point out
for this southbound left coming in,
they're backed up today because they're being blocked
by this through traffic that it wants to go through.
So if this is just an arrow,
it will be a much faster flow
because this traffic only flows one direction.
It's not going through the intersection itself.
So it'll be getting higher green light.
- Wouldn't that back up fry more
because no one's going straight?
Everybody's got to turn so they've all got to wait on
the people on Avenue A to clear?
- We can change the phasing.
So the phasing on these two phases will be different.
Yes.
That will be part of our upgrades.
- Any other questions?
- No, I just, I feel like too with fry coming through,
it just makes more sense to go the other way.
Now that you said it, I can't not think about it.
- Well, we do have three cards that wish to speak.
So we'll go ahead and input there.
And Kim McKibbin is the first speaker.
Kim, if you want to state your name and address
and your time will begin.
- My name is Kim McKibbin.
I own the business and the building
at 1306 West Hickory Street.
I've been involved with this project from the very beginning.
I was part of the Oak Gateway Plan.
This project was initially stopped
by the city council member and sent to,
sent back to the Oak Gateway Plan.
We worked for a year and a half on the Oak Gateway Plan
about how to resolve multiple issues in this area
related to parking, related to bicycles
and all of these kinds of things.
The plan that the Oak Gateway Plan came up with
was basically kind of put on hold.
That involved a lot of the calming techniques that you saw.
That's where some of these originally came from.
So as the representative for most of the business owners,
I have a few points to make.
The traffic direction that they're looking at
in this plan here was typically discussed
by several of us in the business areas there.
And if you function in that area every day,
this is how you move through it.
If you're looking for a parking place,
you either come oak to see and back down and look
and then come back through and circle back around.
I mean, there may not be obvious logic
in changing that direction,
but there is functional reasons for it to be that direction.
I am still in favor of the UNT plan
that would preserve the parking on Hickory Street
that is utilized all the time by the businesses,
by the students, by the residents that are in that area.
I would like to see that worked out
and continue to be pursued specifically
to connect the Sycamore project that's going to be done
for the bike lane to take it down that direction.
The bike lanes, if you're gonna put them there,
put a physical barrier.
The bollards, the little plastic bollards will not work.
We need something in that business area there
to keep people from pulling over into your bicycle lane,
to keep the lift people from pulling over
into the bicycle lane.
And the last meeting that we had at Vortman,
some of the people here were there, some were not.
There was a lot of discussion about the loading zones.
I don't know where you came up with eight out of 20
parking spaces for Jimmy John's, but that is excessive.
There are other people there that use that.
Currently, Jimmy John's, I think, has two delivery trucks.
So you might wanna rethink that.
To give them almost 50% of the parking that you're creating
is not going to help our customer base.
So please reconsider the number of loading zone parkings
that you're looking at on Avenue A.
There are other, there's one, two, three, four
city loading zones in the Fry Street Overlay District.
We pay $178 a year for those parking loading zones.
So if you are going to designate two for Jimmy John's,
I think that they too should pay that.
Enforcement, once again, is a major issue.
Unless the interlocal agreement
with the University of North Texas
that the city of Denton currently has is out of date,
we will need to re-look at that.
Enforcement is an issue.
I've been talking for four minutes, I'm sorry.
- It's three minutes. - Oh, okay.
I do have, I'm here to answer questions.
You have questions, I think I can continue to answer.
- I think we're good. - Okay.
- Thank you.
- Next will be Charles Browning.
- Hey, my name is Charles Browning.
I live at 2324 Georgetown Drive.
I'm here to voice my support for option two.
I've supported, I love option two.
I've loved it since 2015 when I think I first saw it.
I think it's the most viable and safe.
I'm really happy the way the community
has come together and worked.
We have several different people
who have different, I guess, agendas and opinions,
and I respect those.
I really like the way we came together
and this new Avenue A one-way,
I think it eliminates a lot of the safety issues.
The way it's going now,
as opposed to maybe the way it was suggested
a few minutes ago, actually makes this much safer.
It eliminates, one of the most common
cyclist motorist accidents is called the right hook.
On, I guess, Hickory, as you're going forward,
bicycle traffic will be going straight.
The cars will be to the left,
and if their cars are turning right onto Avenue A,
a lot of times people do not look for bicycles.
So they turn right directly into a forward-moving bicycle,
which is, if you look up, one of the most common
cyclist motorist accidents.
Also, I'm happy to see that the parking is preserved.
I think that option two was,
I can't really advocate it much more,
any better than the city staff did,
but against option three,
where the parking is preserved
on the south side of Hickory,
I think that that's a really bad and unsafe option
because a lot of motorists are not used to
sharing the bicycle, sharing the road with bicycles.
It's also more expensive.
If there's a row of cars that bicycles are hidden behind
and then all of a sudden, at Avenue A, they reappear
and have to merge back into traffic,
hopefully we continue with a,
get a bike lane there soon.
I think a negotiating with UNT,
which they seem not to really want to,
will just delay this even longer.
So again, I'm in support of option two without delay.
Thank you.
- Thank you.
Sonia Vazquez.
- Hello, good morning.
My name is Sonia Vazquez.
I live on 603 Westmorebury Street.
I'm actually a couple of blocks
from where everything is happening.
It is, I usually travel through here,
both in my bicycle as well as my vehicle.
So I can tell you that, well, first off,
I am in support of option two,
which seems like the best and safest way.
And I really love the entire design
and what the business is and pre-tem
and everybody has come together as well with the community
to put this together.
And the only thing that I ask going forward
in moving with the plan is that this is really
planned and designed with vehicle traffic flow in mind.
And I think we need to focus more on pedestrians
and the people that go to all these businesses
based on, I guess, the surveys
and everything that I did in observation,
a lot of the traffic that's going through
all these businesses in this entire area,
it's heavily pedestrian traffic,
crossing through like from Crooked Crust
and going to Chipotle and all that.
Even this picture shows a lot of like humans
like crossing that intersection,
as well as the cyclists that are going through.
One of the things that I've noticed is
there's only two 88 spots in this area
and they're from Crooked Crust.
People going and wanting to go to any of the businesses
on along Hickory, there is no spots
that indicate in that area.
And I think we need to increase that.
We need to be more friendly with our 88 groups.
The university has a big group of students
that are
88 and they need more spaces to get there.
A lot of them are walking or crossing the streets.
So we need to actually accommodate that.
So I like, like I said, we need to focus more
on the people that are crossing these streets,
how to make it safer, how to make it better
for them to get to and from the university
as well as travel through the area.
All comments I have.
- Thank you.
- Jimmy, any questions?
- Any questions?
- Thank you.
- Thanks.
- And that is all that we have for blue cards.
Having heard that the business community
is good with the one way that way
gives me definitely some peace of mind on it.
And I definitely see the bicycle safety
of that not allowing the right turn.
It's my only concern still would be DCTA
being able to turn that corner on Welch
'cause I know that that's been brought up in the past
that that was an issue for them to be able
to make that sharp of a turn.
So we definitely wanna make sure that that is feasible.
- Yes, and Welch is pretty fairly wide.
What we're gonna do is increase the size
of the approach that allows the vehicle to turn in.
So we'll definitely lay out turn templates for buses
and design it that way.
- And there's nothing that precludes us from saying
let's move forward with option two,
but let's continue to look at option three
with the university that we could even keep
that other parking and add new parking for that area, true?
I know there's a timing issue involved there.
That's the major.
- So just for clarity, what's being suggested
is that we pursue both options.
In other words, is that what you're saying?
- That would be my thought on.
- I'm okay with this one.
And I'm okay letting go of the UNT option
with the bike lane being on Hickory.
If there's, I would like to see physical separators.
I personally would like to see planters,
something that's gonna beautify the area
and make it more enticing for people
to stop in the businesses.
I would also like to see down here,
Ms. Vasquez just mentioned that all the people walking
from campus over down at Mulberry,
I'd like to see maybe that crosswalk at large
and maybe be art, have the art crosswalk,
something that's gonna jazz up the area,
but also since we're putting so much traffic,
that way, that's gonna make sure that people stop
for the individuals crossing right there.
I would also like to see where the bike rack is.
Is that area jazzed up a little bit?
I don't know if it's possible.
- Okay, jazzed it up?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Musical theme or?
- Yeah, something, yeah, no pun in the music.
Some kind of, maybe if we could get
with the public art committee and talk about the crosswalk
and maybe some kind of something there.
I just, I feel like, I know that this is mobility committee
and I know that it was brought to our attention
because of the bike lane and traffic safety commission
did what they were supposed to do.
They picked the best option
and this isn't anything against them,
but council committee is different.
We have to think of all interests.
We have to make sure that we're thinking about everyone,
not just the traffic aspects of it.
So I commend staff and the community
for continuing to work together until there was an issue
solved that we didn't just go right for the first option.
But in this conversation,
what it did was it brought me more aware of this area
and the neglect that it's kind of had for so long
and I feel like there's a lot of opportunity here for us
to help our small, the businesses out there
in the community so that we can entice other people,
not just students to come.
And so that would be,
that's my suggestion and my impression of this project.
- Can also add to in kind of commenting
on what Ms. Vasquez said about pedestrian safety.
One of the other things that we're looking at too
and have done is working with DME
on changing some of the lights, sodium halide to an LED
to provide more light in that area.
So we continue to work with them to make sure
we can upgrade the bulbs
and other pedestrian safety lighting.
So that is brighter for folks to see where they're going,
coming and going.
- Well, and I believe it was said that at this corner here,
we would do a bump out on that far side
so that through traffic couldn't go.
That will also help with pedestrian.
It'll be a smaller space for them to have to cross.
And it looks like on Welch
that there is a painted crosswalk right at that intersection.
So it probably would be a good idea
to look at doing the same thing down there
to take that to do a little road diet down there on.
- At Mulberry or at Hickory?
- Mulberry, I'm sorry.
Yeah, just at the far end,
if you go down the sidewalk
in front of all these businesses that we're seeing,
there's a crosswalk at the end of that street
in order to get across Mulberry.
Now, on Avenue A.
- Oh, I'm sorry, back there, okay.
- Yeah.
- So bringing that area.
- Yeah, right there.
- We have heard, you know, the police has said,
"Well, those dumpsters,
they kind of make it hard to see people."
And then there has definitely been conversations
about improving this.
So yeah, we can look at that.
- Anytime you reduce the distance
that a pedestrian has to cross,
you increase their safety.
- Yeah, we'll jazz it up.
The crosswalk as well as the intersection.
The bullbots are definitely gonna help with the safety.
- And for clarification, there will not be a right,
wait, okay, so no right on red.
Hold on, so from Fry Street.
Okay, no.
I don't think that that-
- So here's Fry, here's Avenue A.
- Okay.
- Hickory going that way.
- Okay, so this section actually
will just be one way now, right?
- Which is it, Fry Street?
- No.
- Fry would continue to be two way.
- Two way.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- North of Hickory will continue being two way.
- So vehicles coming east on Hickory
could make that left to go north,
or those going north on Avenue A
would have that option of going straight or right.
- We definitely wanna keep Fry two way
because of the access and it's one way either direction,
so people need to go around the block
to make sure that they're at the right.
- So there was a thing here about no right turn on red,
and so that I received from the bicycle community.
I'm not sure what that was about,
but I think everything has been talked about
except for the enforcement plan,
which I think is a larger conversation
that we'll need to discuss,
because again, it doesn't matter how many spaces we add.
If nobody is looking into it,
then we're just camped out in eight hours.
- So I did get a chance to talk with UNT,
their transportation director,
and he has mentioned
that they have been enforcing this particular area,
and they can provide some data
as far as how many citations, how frequently they visit,
so they can provide information.
We're working with them to get it.
- And do they also enforce the parking near the businesses,
like on Mulberry or Avenue A,
wherever that is like red?
- That whole thing, yes.
- Yeah, so the whole area.
I would like if you could send that information out to us
because it-- - Yeah.
- I have heard from the business owners
that they have a desire to separate
parking enforcement in the area from UNT
because they don't see UNT having the same incentive
to keep it turning over
and everything else that the businesses may,
but I think that's a much bigger conversation
about a parking benefit district or something,
which the businesses have brought up.
- Right. - But it's larger.
- Yeah, and I think our chief has also talked
about something, too.
So maybe, is that a conversation we have here,
or is that a full conversation for council?
I just, I'm not sure where the proper place
for that to start is.
- I think it is a, we can start here,
but then it would be a full conversation for council.
- One of the things that we do on a quarterly basis,
we meet with UNT, just go over a number of issues
that's happening either on the campus or on the city,
and this could be one of those topics
that we could bring up to, 'cause it's a full,
it includes the president's office,
city manager's office, transportation,
their transportation counterpart.
So it's one of those things we can bring up
and just talk about with them,
that it's been brought up again,
and we'd like to just revisit that whole conversation.
- Okay, thank you.
- John?
- Oh, I was gonna ask the width of the bike lane
versus the width of parking.
What is the difference in that?
- About two feet.
So eight feet is typical parking area,
and bike lanes are six feet minimum,
so that two foot is the buffer that we're gonna use
to separate the bike lanes from the travel lanes.
- Okay, and I don't know what council member Briggs's
opinion is of option three as a secondary,
but I'm just thinking if we needed to stripe that
with paint only, as opposed to putting down the,
was it thermoplastic that we use?
- Thermoplastic.
- Yeah, that we did it in that, continue to negotiate,
and then we can decide, you know,
if they're willing to put that in there.
Then we just move the bike lane up onto the sidewalk,
rebuild the sidewalk.
They'd lose parking for a period of time.
We could keep the bike lane there on the street
until we get the sidewalk actually built.
- So I understand what you're saying.
So it kind of conflicts with the direction.
Are we installing full protected bike lanes
with curbs in there?
Currently as it exists, do you want the curbs in there?
Or is it temporary curb, bolt-on curves with delineators?
Because that is more movable if we go and acquire
or get personal alternative option three,
that'll be easier to take everything out
and clear it out and move the bike lane.
- Well with the, I'm comfortable with just the one option
with the parking on Avenue A.
- Okay.
- And I feel like something more permanent
needs to be done for the bike lane
just so that it's not confusing for the drivers.
They get used to being in there.
And if there is enforcement and there's a loading zone
and then there's room for the businesses
and then there will still be parking
on the opposite side of Hickory if we can right currently.
- On the north side.
- North side, there is, it'll remain.
- It'll remain.
Will it remain all the way down?
- They're in different.
- I think there's a large loading zone.
- It will remain all the way to Welch.
There are certain areas.
There's one bike lane and a loading area, but.
- One of our proposals had changed that turning lane
to parking when we proposed eliminating all of the parking
on the south side, it was the original.
- Thank you.
- So, I'm sorry, right here,
one of our proposals looking at option two originally
before we're looking at the one way
was to convert that into parking.
But there are options.
- I think he's still not picking you up on the mic.
- Sorry, not picking me up, I'm getting an ice cream cone.
There are options.
We can shift things around up there.
Just dealing with paint and so forth, it's possible.
And one point I wanted to make, too,
is there are two types of loading that are going on here.
You have deliveries incoming to the businesses,
which are typically tractor trailers
or just short of tractor trailers,
so they need a good sized space.
And then you have these smaller, just personal vehicles
that do prepared food and take it to the customer.
So there are two types that we're talking about.
- Okay, so there's some options there for added parking
on the other side if we need to add something later on.
Okay.
- I think there is already parking in some loading zones.
- Okay.
And I did get clarification on the right turn.
No right turn, so it was for northbound traffic
on Avenue A at West Hickory.
To reduce the risk of someone sticking nose
of their car out into the path
with someone's biking downhill on Hickory.
- Yeah, they will, anyone that wants to,
we can look into that option, it's definitely.
- Okay.
- If you look at that, there's already parking.
There's some loading area here and a turn lane here,
but other than that, there's parking spaces
on the north side, on that segment.
- And that's gonna continue to stay?
- That's gonna continue to stay.
- Okay.
- Take it away.
- Much as I hate to drag this out,
I think we're kind of at an impasse
that this may just need to go to full council
for a final decision on the,
I think we're pretty clear that option two is a go,
but whether option three is still feasible for future
is something to look at.
- We can certainly look at that.
Pre-TAM can probably elaborate more
on kind of the next steps
as far as Traffic Safety Commission,
'cause again, that's gonna require changes
and ordinances, et cetera.
As mentioned, probably earliest we've begun,
I know Mark mentioned probably the August meeting
of the border regents.
My understanding in visiting with Bob Brown,
Senior VP of Finance, and Dave Reynolds,
to get on the agenda for the border regents,
they've gotta have everything in order,
45 days prior to a meeting, so I'm just letting you know,
I'm just passing the information on,
so, but if we do need to have full design documents,
et cetera, tree survey, it's gonna take some work,
and we can get there, it's just identifying the funding,
identifying all the hurdles that we've gotta get to,
and then get that information over to UNT.
To make the May meeting, it would probably be completed,
certainly by June of this year,
which is just fast-tracking.
The next meeting after that would be November
on the border regents, 'cause they meet every quarter,
every three months. - Okay.
- So the direction on this is move forward with option two,
we can take it to Traffic Safety
with the added parking along Avenue A,
and then move in that direction
to get the bike lanes implemented
along with the existing project.
As far as pursuing the option three,
we can present that information
with the cost and schedule to the full council,
if you wanna.
Okay, we'll set it up that way.
- And don't forget all the upgrades
to make it look really nice, and safe.
- Yes, absolutely.
- And so I did notice that when the street lights
are still on a string and pole,
are those planned to be upgraded at all,
or with crosswalks and nice?
- So, this intersection is extremely difficult.
We can look into that.
I'm not sure if we have the funds at this time,
but it would be a.
- Okay.
- Regardless of if we're gonna bring this to full council,
but we wanna move as quickly as possible
on getting the information to Traffic Safety
on the second option that you're reviewing tonight, today,
so that we can get moving
because I know the restriping and the improvements
that are occurring on Hickory,
so we wanna make sure
that we don't lose any momentum and time on that.
So it'll be something coming to the council
and then your future.
- Okay.
Last question, sidewalk upgrades on Hickory.
Are we going to be doing that with the street
to make sure that they are ADA compliant?
Because I think there's probably some areas
where there's things stuck right in the middle
and they may not be big enough or accessible.
So is that something we're looking at
or have we done that with this Hickory Street project?
- I'm glad you brought it up
because we are looking at,
there's one area, particularly,
in front of the workman's book.
Only if I can get there.
- I saw parking meters.
Remember those days?
Remember the good old days?
- So this area is the one that is extremely challenging
as far as ADA compliance.
It is a foot and a half from this level
to the top of this curb.
And the challenge is the available distance
is about seven, seven and a half feet.
And in order to make it ADA compliant
and get to this level,
there are a couple options.
We can go half and half,
but it doesn't really provide an ADA path.
So the other option is pulling this curb out
and it'll take a couple of spaces of parking out.
So this area is very challenging
given that this level is way up here.
So we're looking at different options and designing it.
But we are looking at making this particular
sidewalk ADA compliant, yes.
- Okay, so it'll be new sidewalk?
- Yes.
- Okay.
Thank you.
- Anything else on this item?
No, we'll bring the chair back in.
- Does anybody else feel like going, (sighs)
(all laughing)
- I'll go ahead and call the item
so we can get started on it, keep rolling.
Item F, receive a report, hold a discussion
regarding Texas Department of Transportation
on system projects in the Denton area
to include the 35E project.
We're just trying to keep it moving.
Keep it moving. - I'll get to open
the item.
Holy smokes, how long do y'all talk about that?
I can't wait to find out what was said.
Are you kidding me?
No, just tell me, love fest or battle?
- We're good, we're good.
- We're good.
- Okay, I'm reading some weird body language there.
All right, tell me later.
- We're working on making everyone happy.
- We're working on making everyone happy, all right.
- Except for staff.
(all laughing)
- Oh, that's the usual, so all right.
I can't wait to hear about item F
that our vice chair has so nicely opened for us.
- So, what, three minutes?
(all laughing)
- Today you have time.
- No, I think we're good, right?
I mean, we're not under pressure.
- I think we have at least half an hour.
- Yeah.
- We're not gonna need it.
(all laughing)
Okay, so what we do is we start with the first page.
It shows you, we've updated some of the costs
of the projects we're tracking.
It's about two and a half billion dollars
worth of roadway improvements that this report covers,
and as little time as you want me to go through it.
So, 2181, this project had MCM as a contractor on it.
They've been terminated.
I've been told not to use that word.
- You just did.
- That's exactly what we're doing.
We're terminating them from the contract.
We've gotten some comments from staff
about making sure TechSight keeps the pedestrian pathways
viable during this hiatus between getting
the old contractor off and the new contractor on.
We got word back from the area engineer
that they're bringing a blade out,
and they will blade the areas that need to be bladed
and put down recycled asphalt product in those areas
to give them some type of a pervious path
for walking to school in a construction zone.
That's no longer a construction zone.
- One question on that.
Ranchmen, they were in the middle of tearing up
crossing ranchmen at the time that this--
- So, that sub is still on the job,
and they are still working to get that back open,
and we should have some better idea on that.
I think we're meeting April Fool's Day.
- Correct.
- That doesn't imply anything, but we'll look into that.
We should have some better information
on when they're gonna get that open,
'cause that was one of the concerns we had
when we terminated MTM was making sure
that the temporary closures they had
weren't gonna be permanent.
- Yeah, 'cause the west side, I believe,
they've reopened, but the east side is still shut down.
- Yes, and we are doing one thing.
We're working with the subcontractor.
We just received an extension
for extending the closure to the end of May,
so we're asking them to improve signage
and improve notification systems
so that that would be a better,
it's communicated better to the community.
I just got that email yesterday,
so we're trying to work more signage.
On the city side, if the contractor's not placing them
on the city side, we'll do so,
and also have our PIO coordinate the information better.
- And get it on Waze as well,
since we're now working with them that that is shut down.
- So, I'm glad to hear about the path,
the sidewalk, the walking path.
That was a concern.
So, as far as everything else, though,
like the utilities have been moved,
everything else is pretty much ready to go
except for the people to do the work?
- Sort of.
This project was one of the projects
that the city of Denton reluctantly included their utilities
in the contract itself.
So, what you saw MCM actually doing out there in 2181
was the city's utilities on this project,
and we were trying to keep them on contract,
at least to get that portion of the project done.
That was not successfully occurred.
So, all the utilities except the cities
are being relocated, and the city's utilities
were in the contract with the contractor.
- So, can I follow up on that?
So, since the contractor, since they are no longer with us,
is that something the sub's going to do,
or can that contract be void
and the city start doing it on their own?
I mean, I'm looking for ways to keep the project moving.
- So, this contract has a surety company,
it's Berkshire Hathaway,
and they seemed, in our last meeting,
to understand that initially they were challenging
the termination, but now they've decided
that I think it's better for them to move forward.
So, we think we're gonna get a contractor
on contract fairly quickly on this job,
but I don't wanna say it,
'cause then that'll be the bar, right?
- Right.
- I don't wanna do that.
So, the contract isn't void, per se.
The surety has stepped in to execute the contract
on behalf of the company.
- Okay, so there's,
whomever is still on the-- - We're still on the hook.
- For those utilities to be moved.
- Correct.
- Okay.
- One thing I would just caution,
I mean, we can certainly look at,
I mean, again, it's gotta be done properly, right?
We can't just get ahead of this process,
but if by chance that was an option
to utilize CityCruise to do that,
I think we would just need to make sure
what other projects get sacrificed
that had already been assigned by CityCruise
to remove utilities or do utility relocations
in other areas of the city.
So, it's just, does something else stop
to divert attention over here?
But we obviously would follow the process,
we wouldn't get ahead of--
- Sure, so right now, the former contractor
was trying to gouge the city on some change orders,
and the city has the option to simply
take that part of the contract away from them
and do self-improvement, I guess, for lack of a better word.
But it would require you to put a lot of resources
into this area that would not be available elsewhere.
And so, we're hoping that the surety
will bring on a contractor that's more viable
than the last one, and we can get to the middle
on the cost issues with the change orders.
- Okay. - What could happen?
- Yeah, it's all new to me,
I'm not used to the contractor utilities,
there's tax dot, and then so, I mean,
I guess I just thought that those prices
would have already been agreed upon,
and you wouldn't be negotiating.
- They agreed on what we did on both 377,
which is our next project in 2181,
is tax dot put what the city anticipated
the cost to be in the bid package,
and then in the 377 case, it was fixed,
or 2181, I get 'em confused.
2181 was fixed, so then what happened was,
is when we got started, there was some delay
that the MCM claims that the city caused,
or the tax dot caused, and the city and the state
are saying no, it's not anywhere near that,
and so there was this disparity
in the number of days and the cost,
and so, the original amount was agreed to,
but if there's anything that happens subsequent
to you actually starting the project
that requires a change order,
then that's up for negotiation,
and we were dealing with an entity
that is a contractor as opposed to a constructor.
Contractor is somebody who manipulates a contract.
That's what they do.
Constructors like Sinicola and Abrams and these guys
who come into the job, and they do a good job
'cause they know how to construct things.
We did not get that on 2181.
- Okay, thank you.
- 377 Fort Worth Drive, this project,
you see 'em there going out and putting up the SW3P.
You'll note at the bottom, we're having an issue
with turnaround times.
I'm gonna go back.
This looks like a very long section of roadway.
It's mostly a railroad job
with a little bit of roadway associated with it.
All the critical path items are at the railroad,
and so when I tell you on the next page at the bottom
that we're having a difficult time getting review comments
back from UP, there's one gentleman named Doug Wood.
He's got five states, and we're not getting comments back
from UP very routinely.
On this job, you're having problems with UP
for your quiet zone, so our staff is working with the MPO
to set up a conference call with Union Pacific
and their Omaha office headquarters
to talk about Fort Worth Drive,
a signal down on 377 and the quiet zone issues for the city.
- I did something here.
I thought I sensed you wanted to check it out.
Since railroad came up, you know.
- This is Frank.
- At one time, didn't the city council
or someone ask or propose that we do a resolution
or some kind of something to the railroad
asking them for help or need something?
What am I thinking about?
- We originally did in Fort Worth Drive
try to get it to let.
We couldn't get them to agree on the exhibit A,
and the irony is is we were giving them
additional infrastructure,
and they still wouldn't work with us on it,
so it took us nine years to get that exhibit A.
- What's the escalation path?
Is there like a sort of governmental body that--
- So the-- - Be responsive to us
and be over there. - FRA is the oversight
of rail in the country, but they don't have a lot of say
in what the railroads do,
because they predate the states in a lot of cases,
and so the railroad, you almost have to have a visa
to get onto railroad property.
I mean, it's that difficult.
- Different country. - Wow.
Is, you know, are there any next steps that you're--
- Yeah, the next step is is that UP has got a lot of work
they're doing in the southern part of Dallas County
that the MPO, COG, has helped funding,
and as a part of the negotiations,
COG says if we're gonna help you here,
you're gonna help us region-wide,
and so whenever we have a problem with UP,
we get the MPO to get them on the phone
and walk the dog, for lack of a better word,
on how to get it done.
So that's what we're doing.
We're setting that up within whatever time
Michael Moore's schedule will allow,
but it's just a conference call, so it should be easier.
So 377, the roadway part of it is going smooth as butter,
but this critical path project is the railroad,
and we're having trouble getting those guys to talk to us.
So your 35 Mayhill job, this is when we're coming in
and doing what you see at Loop 288, 10 lanes underneath.
35, this will be 12.
It'll be significantly larger than 288,
and this project also will include
the northbound frontage road from Mayhill
all the way up to Loop 288,
'cause we had the southbound frontage road
improved with the 35E next project,
but we didn't touch the northbound side
because we were trying to save money,
but when we came in with Mayhill,
we decided we can't keep tearing this place up,
so let's finish it this next last time.
In theory.
So this project moved to a November 2020 let date
because we extended the project limits
to take this frontage road
all the way to the Loop 288 direction.
- And this will line up with our Mayhill widening?
- Yes, so right now, you all have Mayhill.
It's just switched traffic, I think,
about two, three weeks ago.
Thank you, I can now get to Lowe's.
The easy way.
And then that project, when it completes,
we've got the $18 million project
to do the grade separation over DCPA
and then tie it into Mayhill,
and what we're trying to do is cheat this job a little bit
to make those improvements on Mayhill
as far north as we can to improve that section as well.
So we got a plan for the whole corridor.
- Okay.
- So this is the Loop 288 breaker job.
As you said earlier, we told you,
the traffic is now up on the new bridge.
So it only took them, what, two and a half years
to do half the project.
So they're supposed to be done by August.
- So it's the second half in a few months?
Okay, good.
- Yeah, and that's what TechSight,
if you look at TechSight's report,
they're showing, oh, they changed it to an asterisk.
It was August, I changed it to an asterisk
because I'm not gonna report August 'cause it's a lie.
And I don't knowingly lie.
- Just leave the year off.
It'll be in August.
(laughing)
- I'm gonna start doing seasons.
- Well, they could have kept it on August
'cause that wasn't there.
- Yeah, it was supposed to be August of last year.
So now we're looking at August of next year.
- So essentially, you saw the traffic change.
That'll allow them to temporarily put a crossing
underneath for Brinker to the buckies
starting in about May or June.
It'll be, it'll temporarily close
when they need to work underneath there.
But essentially they'll be able to establish cross traffic
in the May timeframe during the remainder
of the construction of the project.
So that will relieve some of the congestion at the loop.
But we're still looking towards the end of the year
at best for this project to be done.
Then your I-35EW35 merge is the project
that we submitted to the commission
of the Clear Lanes program.
It's $420 million improvement
and it goes all the way up to 77.
And the reason that is is because we're also doing 1173
where we're routing 1173 up to that location
and moving the bottleneck past 380
just moves the bottleneck past 380.
So we really got to get past 77
to improve all of this corridor.
And then we'll make the improvements to 35W
where we'll have two main lanes coming into 35
as opposed to the one that's doing it now.
And it'll have braided ramps on either side
between the split and 380
so that you'll solve that congestion problem
and that safety problem you have right now out there.
And this has also been submitted to the federal government
under what's called the InfraGrant,
which is an innovative financing program.
And we should know about these sometime in the summer,
both the Clear Lanes request and the Infra.
And if we don't get either,
they will drop to the $150 million alternative
which we already have the funding for
which will just simply build the frontage roads,
fix the dual 35W and it'll be just 380 south.
And it's subpar.
But you can only do so much with $150 million.
- We had talked about a series of,
because this is completion date 2023,
we talked about a plan.
- Oh, that's lead. - Yeah, right.
Okay, appreciate the correction.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we talked about a plan of a sequence
of intermediate steps to relieve some of the traffic pressure
going up to 380 and is this an appropriate time
to ask what the status is of that?
You're giving me a blank look, this is not good.
You know, do you recall, we talked about like sort of
just things that can be done
to kind of relieve some of the pain.
- The braided ramps are about the only thing
that can be done and that's that fallback.
If we, we actually started with the interim improvement
and then Texas says why don't we just go ahead
and do the whole shebang.
So we're trying to get the remaining $300 million
or whatever to do it right.
But we're still have an income on contract
doing the schematic and doing the improvement.
So it'll just be if we don't know,
if we don't get the money in the summer,
we'll just continue on the path of doing the braided ramps
and the frontage roads, 'cause that will solve
the congestion problem, the safety problem in those areas
is just putting the ramps where they need to be.
- So, and so what's the timing on just that portion of it
assuming, yeah, Rick, 'cause that'll happen first, right?
- Right, 'cause so you're looking at having today,
we have an asterisk on right away in utilities
because we don't know whether we're gonna do the interim
or the permanent.
We have most of the right away on the northbound side
for the red development, but we don't have the southbound
side of the right away.
So what will drive the schedule since the funding
is already available will be the right away acquisition
and utility relocations once we know the scope
of the project we're doing.
- Okay.
- So I don't know.
- Yeah.
- That's the answer.
- Although southbound isn't really the issue, right?
I mean, is it that you can't do the northbound?
- Yeah, the feds won't let you do, they won't let you,
you have to do it in a system.
So for example, on Eagle Parkway to 114,
we couldn't do there's just a southbound frontage road
for Tanger and Buckies and all that.
We also had to do the northbound frontage road
when nobody really wanted it.
Now there's 400, I mean, 4 million square feet
of industrial retail there.
- Yep.
- But they don't let you do.
- Just one side.
- One side.
- Okay.
Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, go ahead.
- So on the safety of 35 West,
so coming back from Fort Worth, it's great.
There's that one area where it goes down from two lanes
to one, and it's, you can't see the striping anymore.
It's almost invisible.
And so every time I'm doing it,
it's almost a wreck every single time.
So we can get with Tina on that to do,
go out and do some maintenance on the striping.
That's something that she can do.
I think they're putting their striping contract
together right now.
So this would be a good time to talk to her about it.
'Cause we're also gonna fix the Fort Worth drive,
Dallas drive exit, where it's two lanes coming
into Dallas drive, we're gonna restripe that to one
back to what it used to be.
So this would be a good time to ask her about it.
- Okay, that would help with the safety.
I was just gonna fade it there.
Thank you.
And then 35 North project.
This is a project that picks up from 38
and goes all the way up to Canyon Line.
It's got a scheduled environmental clearance date of May.
And that's why we're able to add it to the Wishbone
because by the time we hear about the funding
for the 420 million, this segment will be cleared,
which includes that part up to 77.
So this project is critical to our Wishbone segment
'cause we're taking part of it
and adding it to the Wishbone project.
Did that make sense?
- To me, I don't remember if I asked you this before,
but do the plans for this segment include,
I forget what you call it, but sound barrier walls,
you know, along the side 'cause you're going
by neighborhoods.
- So the answer is that when a project is developed
to get environmental clearance,
it has to do a federally mandated noise analysis process
on wherever those sound walls are reasonable
and feasible that makes them warranted,
they are installed.
- So a study will be done and then that will determine it.
- A study is being done.
If we're gonna be done and if we're gonna be cleared
by May of 2019, the schematic already shows
where they are or aren't.
So if you wanna know where the sound walls are
on the schematic, we can go look at that and tell you.
- Yeah, that'd be great if you could, you know,
bring that back at the next report.
Thanks. - Yes, sir.
- 'Cause I just, you know, residents have asked me,
so I'd be curious to see.
- Right, and we are getting closer to the adjacent
properties, so there are impacts.
I just don't know whether, 'cause there's a two step
process, reasonable and feasible.
The reasonable is is that you can reduce the noise level
by five decibels.
Feasible is your sound wall can't cost more than $25,000
per benefited receptor.
So if you've got five benefited receptors,
the wall can't cost you more than $125,000
and these are not--
- Interceptor means people?
- You got it.
- Okay, great.
- I'm using the language now, sound smart.
But if it costs more than $125,000,
then they can't build it and you can't buy your way
into it because of environmental justice.
They don't want affluent communities to have more
environmental justice than less affluent communities.
So if you don't make the cut on either one of those
two criteria, you don't get the wall.
- Interesting, thank you.
- Okay, so I'm gonna skip this one 'cause this project
is on hold until the next project.
So this is the main lanes where HNTB is doing
the entire schematic for the entire corridor
from the county line to the split.
But right now we've got Jacobs on contract to do
the schematic and the PSNE which are the construction
documents for just the frontage road portions only.
And so this will go from all the way up to everybody
wants to stop right at the railroad track.
So nobody owns that.
We're stopping at the railroad track from the north
and they're stopping from the south.
So someday we'll have to fix that.
But this one is just frontage roads both northbound
and southbound and it sets the grades for the cross street.
So sometimes the grade like 1171 currently goes over,
35W, it may be flipped to where 35 goes over 1171.
That's the new paradigm is for the interstates
to go elevated and the cross streets stay at grade
because it's better for development.
And since 35 goes from Rio to the red,
you've got a long time to chase out your grade which--
- I'm not sure I understood.
So if 35 is elevated, that's better for development now?
- Because the cross street, the adjacent corners
are at grade and they're able to develop those corners.
If the interstate, if the cross streets go over,
there's retained walls and bridge abutments.
- Oh, okay, so you lose land.
- Jason land is less developable.
But the other reason is to take a facility
over at interstate now, it used to be 16.6,
now it's 18.6 clearance.
And so that two foot additional height
makes it almost equitable for the interstate
to go over instead of the cross street.
And you stay in your right of way,
so it's less right of way because it's an interstate.
So there's, they're changing the grades
where they're changing the grades
and they're setting the frontage roads.
And once they're done with that,
then they'll take that information
and give it back to HNTB and they'll incorporate that
into their ultimate plans for the main lanes
and the managed lanes and all that.
U.S. 380 East, this is a segment going all the way out
to the Collin County line.
The section in green is where the city,
previous bikes are, got y'all some funding
for the 10 foot path out to the green belt.
That's included in this project.
Schedule, we've got a hundred parcels
that we're acquiring in both sections.
And the scheduled let date
is February, 2021.
And this is a fully funded project
at just a little over $130 million.
It's already funded.
- Okay.
- Yeah, I think,
TaxDot's having community meetings
about this project right now.
- No. - No?
- No. - Okay.
- I try to tell them not to do stupid,
but they don't listen to me.
They are looking at a feasibility study
for ultimate 380 improvements as a freeway.
And so you can't put a freeway down that corridor
without turning everything into a historical marker, right?
'Cause it's so close.
So they're showing alignments
that just go off to the north in random areas,
and they're having public meetings,
and people are saying,
"Hey, you're putting a road through my backyard."
And this is a project that won't be ever built
in the next 20 plus years.
'Cause that part of a neighborhood
that's in my district is where that schematic is showing.
So it's causing a lot of angst,
and nobody really...
- I get pummeled regularly by Commissioner Coleman
about that, 'cause all we're doing is a super street.
So we're coming in in five locations
with major traffic crosses.
We're putting in grade separations.
NAVO for the high school, Teal, Legacy, 720 and 423.
So those will be, you won't stop at those cross streets.
The 380 will go over those cross streets,
and you'll have exit ramps just like you do on a freeway.
You'll still have places where you have to stop
at a signal, May Hill,
but whatever that road is out there by, crossroads.
There'll be places where you still have to stop at signals,
but what we're gonna do is cheat those signal times
so horribly that they'll try to find another way
to get there other than at an at-grade crossing.
So what we're doing is we're gonna move the traffic,
and it's gonna go from four lanes to six,
and it's gonna be a free flow
for the majority of the corridor.
- Are you, do you have plans to upgrade the intersection
at the loop in 380?
- We do not.
It stops, it's like the railroad,
it stops right before it. - It just stops.
Okay.
- But that's really a loop 288 issue.
We probably need to look at that.
And I've made some suggestions.
I think y'all came with some thoughts.
Nobody goes north on that frontage road, right?
You go right to go east on 380,
or you go left to go in down.
Nobody that's on that frontage road,
'cause it's an exit ramp,
- Yeah.
- decides, oh, I'm stupid, I wanna get back on, right?
So what I'm saying is there's a way to improve
that intersection where you eliminate the through movement,
and it's just a, it's a turning movement for all directions,
and it would allow a lot more flow to go through.
But I haven't gotten TechStart to buy off on that,
'cause they got it designed for dummies.
- Yeah, from 380, they make that turn onto it,
but there's hardly any direct straight.
- Straight through.
No, and you see, like garbage and stuff
in the middle of the road, 'cause nobody drives there.
- Would you mind saying that part again about--
- I won't be able to. (laughing)
- About, you know, how the lights would be treated
to kind of encourage traffic--
- So there are other places that you can get onto 380
that aren't those five that'll be grade separated,
and there are ways to get to those five,
especially in the eastern part of the corridor,
there are ways to get to those five locations
without having to take one of those
that have an at-grade crossing.
So if we simply keep the through movement of main lanes,
majority time, right, then they'll get tired of waiting,
and they'll go to one of those--
- That's why we're all confused.
I mean, so the idea is you want to keep people going.
- You want to keep people moving on 380.
- So you time the lights so that if you're
kind of at the speed limit, you'll hit the lights.
- No. - No, okay, that's--
- If you're on 380, you'll get the majority of the green.
If you're trying to get onto 380
from an at-grade crossing,
flat people with a road with a signal,
you'll have to wait a significant amount of time,
or you'll start to learn to move over one street
and hit a teal or legacy or 423 or 720,
which is a grade-separated location,
and you can get on quicker.
- So if we want people to go
to the grade-separated crossings.
- Correct, we're gonna disincentivize the at-grades
and incentivize the grade separations.
And maybe this should be obvious,
but why is that that we wanted to do one versus the other?
- Because this is a area that has east-west traffic
that has no other alternative but 380.
And if you've been out on 380, it's depressing.
It's already got the volume for a freeway.
- Okay.
- But we can't build a freeway
because we'd have to tear out everything along the corridor
because all of those freshwater districts
allow development to go right up to the right-of-way line,
and all of that development
adjacent to the right-of-way was commercial.
- It clicks in, now I get it, I understand.
Thank you.
- Okay, Luke 288.
This one we're having a meeting on March 28th at McMath.
It's a public meeting just to let the folks know
what it is we're planning.
The schedule is out years.
We're trying to get the project environment cleared
next year, and we are designing the project
as a controlled access freeway.
So it'll have main lanes and frontage roads
and grade separations.
And if we have to stage construct it,
we're gonna build the northbound frontage road,
which is the inside part of the loop,
so that all the development the city has coming to the loop
will be able to establish themselves
to the permanent location where the frontage road will be,
but it'll operate as a two-lane, two-way road
in the interim, just similar to what we do
on the D&T extension,
where we build one of the frontage roads first,
have it two-way, and then as the traffic develops,
we build the main lanes and the other frontage road
and then we flip the traffic.
So that's the plan.
- And council, we approved that the frontage road
- Correct.
- As a first step, just so that we could keep it
moving, so when it says ready to let date 2026,
that's not for the frontage, correct?
- So what we have, what's causing difficulty
on loop 288 is if we had an overlay,
there are, you can kind of see some of them,
there are a ton of gas wells out here.
And so we've threaded the needle on a lot of these,
but the right-of-way is gonna be significantly
prohibitive on this corridor.
And the utilities should be not as difficult
because there aren't, it's a new alignment,
so there's no utilities in the right-of-way.
They may cross, like they do at 2449, the DMA line,
but the right-of-ways really got tech stock concerned
on this, so they're putting, pushing that time out
because of the right-of-way.
- But the frontage part is gonna--
- We're buying the right-of-way for all of it.
You don't go in, your city staff wouldn't either.
If you're gonna build a ultimate road
and you're only gonna build part of it to phase one,
when you go to that property owner,
you buy everything you need from 'em
so you don't have to come back four years later
and bug 'em again.
So we've gotta buy a lot of right-of-way on this project.
And those gas wells, if we have to move 'em,
they're a million, two a pop, just right off the bat
before you ever have a conversation with 'em.
- Can't you just make a really tall, tall, tall road?
(laughing)
- Wells would be cheaper, I think.
Vertical's not good.
The right-of-way is the critical path on this.
- I have one more question about the Loop 288
and frontage roads 'cause in the conversation I saw earlier,
there's a slide that says 428,
but there's just the slide, empty slide.
- Yeah, I'll get to that.
- Okay, will we talk about the frontage road there?
- That's not part of this.
That's the section on the other side.
We can talk about it, yes, on that one.
- Just to, frontage road in front of the CH Collins Center
to open up traffic flow through there,
is that something that we're working on with you guys?
- So we're doing some Loop 288 improvements at 77
for the Bonnie and Brady improvements,
but I don't know if it goes that far east.
- No, that's something that the city's looking at.
We have not talked to Texas about that particular segment.
I know Stewart Road directly connects to the Loop,
and that's something that we wanna take off
and have a direct connection between Sherman Drive
and Locust as a frontage,
but that's not a project currently on TechStop's radar.
- So that's a city project, not a TechStop project.
- We've started the conversation.
It's not a project at this point,
but we're looking at options.
- We can do faith-based engineering, right?
You just start not knowing where the money's gonna come from.
- Okay, sorry.
FM 1515 is a case of faith-based engineering.
We're advancing the project,
not knowing where the funding's gonna come from,
but we're fairly confident.
For example, we have the 130 million on 380,
but we can't spend it
'cause we gotta get through the regulatory process,
so there's no reason to wait.
So we're gonna get through the regulatory process
while we're looking for the money.
This alignment is the current alignment
that LTR was looking at.
City staff has made some suggestions
as to maybe some alternate improvements on the east side
to make it more conducive to the future development
they have there.
Initially, the consultant that the county hired said no,
which I was flabbergasted that anybody would take a no
from a consultant.
So we met with TechStop and they said,
"Sure, propose and we'll look at it."
So we're gonna maybe make some tweaks to the alignment,
but that's a schedule that we have to get it ready to let,
and the reason I argue that it's not up to the county
or the state as to what 1515 looks like
is because this ultimately will be a city street
because it operates as a city street
and it's one of your better industrial parks.
You wanna have control over it.
So TechStop should build it
to whatever design standard you want
in whatever location you want since you're gonna take it.
- This is airport road?
- Airport.
- Okay.
- So like they were blocking a traffic circle at the end
and y'all really need that
because 18 liters get down there and they get stuck, right?
So they use your parking lot as a turnaround, the airport.
And so there's just things that we wanna fix
that need to be fixed and no consultants gonna say no.
- I think there's gonna be like a thousand trucks a day
or something on that road.
- This road has been needed to be improved
for many, many moons.
I mean, it is and with the shift changes
to go on out there, tragic.
Which part of our traffic control plan,
part of the deal we're looking at
is how to deal with these companies
as they let their shifts changes during construction
that we don't destroy them.
- How will this impact the Bonnie Bray projects?
'Cause right now airport road becomes Bonnie Bray
and Bonnie Bray kinda curves off to the side and it stops.
I'm assuming Bonnie Bray is gonna go straight through.
Will this then become a signalized or stopped intersection?
- Make sure you use the (indistinct)
- You're giving advice now.
- And hopefully on the southbound
where you come up to the top of the bridge
that when we redo this,
we're gonna eliminate that site issue up there.
- So one of the options that we're looking at is,
yes, definitely Bonnie Bray is gonna be straightened out here.
This is Bonnie Bray that comes in.
We are looking at an alignment that goes straight.
Currently, this is a lay down facility for textile.
So textile already owns that piece.
And if we go directly over,
we can cross the railroad at the same time
we can cross the freeway
and then bring this furniture down.
So that's the alignment that we're looking at.
And that puts that intersection further south
of these ramps here.
I think the major concerns here turning and everything
has to do with these two ramp locations and signals
as well as this coming in from the airport side.
So if we further space out this,
the design could be part of the 1515 project
where it can be a signal.
It could be any other roundabout
or we'll have to look at the number of trucks.
- 'Cause a roundabout becomes a traffic circle
if you got to deal with too many trucks.
Okay.
FM 1173, this is where I was pointing out
that the new alignment brings it up to--
- Bartol. - Bartol.
And that's where 77 is.
And so our improvements on the Wishbone
go up to this location and picks up
the improvements that we're proposing on 1173 here,
which is part of your thoroughfare plan, I hope.
- It is. - Okay.
So this is another one where we just started
faith-based engineering on it.
It's about 50 million bucks.
We have Garver, techs that picked up Garver
to do initially the feasibility study,
the highlighted part there says the techs that's decided
to go ahead and move on through the environmental clearance,
which is where we need to be in order to get this project
in the hopper for funding consideration.
And it sets the alignment and that makes it
where we can protect the corridor going forward.
So Garver should be on contract
to do the environmental document.
Once they get on contract and they tell us the schedule,
we'll start highlighting the schedule for you
in those steps that normally have dates.
So.
(laughing)
I was sent the information, all right?
My wife kept asking me to look at this report
and I said, "I got it, don't worry about it."
So y'all have got a very good report on 428,
but this was what I think pre-tem went over last time
where we're talking about taking 428 out,
pass whatever to the outer loop,
making intersection improvements at 428 and the loop.
And I sent it over to my staff to say,
"Hey, you need to insert this information
for the next report."
(laughing)
While I was sitting down.
- Don't throw them under the bus or anything.
- It was me.
I was the one that was, they asked me to look at it
and I said, "I know all this stuff."
(laughing)
- It's all in his brain.
He just explained it.
He doesn't need to be on a paper.
- Next time there'll be pictures and words, here.
(laughing)
(mumbles)
Don't fire me.
(laughing)
- Crystal clear.
- I don't know how to get out of this.
(laughing)
Anything else?
- Well, yeah, actually, I just want to ask you.
I keep seeing emails about text-out stakeholder meetings.
Is that something you recommend we go to
or are you kind of covering us?
- So that covers a broad spectrum of issues.
I mean, there's one out there for the upcoming UTP updates
for the 10-year plan.
They're listening tours.
You're better off just telling me what you want
and not wasting your time and then let's go do it.
- Okay.
- But if you're talking about like 380 stuff,
I mean, if you want to get beat up, show up.
If you don't, send us.
(laughing)
- I'll give that some thought.
- You don't get beat up that bad.
I've been to a few.
(laughing)
- Thank you very much.
- It just depends on the issues.
- Just wear sunglasses and a big hat.
Don't get noticed.
(laughing)
- All right, so that closes item F.
Let's move to item G, staff reports.
Just gonna turn it over to Mr. Deshmukhi.
He's got some comments he'd like to say on the matrix.
- Yeah, so item number six and 10,
I think we've talked in length on those.
I would like to get them removed from the matrix
since we're, the next step is getting this to council.
I think we've really vetted out
all the options and possibilities, so.
- Okay, well, I can't wait to hear.
Well, actually, I don't even know if I'll get to hear there.
I'll wait to see the posting.
And then the others, we will continue to bring one of these,
every one of these in future meetings
as the data becomes available
or it becomes more pressing to move these items forward.
I do have some information and I've talked to individual,
I think I've talked to Mayor Pro Tem Ryan
about Forest Ridge and some of the ones
on his request list and provided feedback,
but for bicycle, pedestrian connectivity,
and major crossings, we'll bring that item next time.
And then also the Bonnie Ray US 380, so.
- Where does the whole railroad crossing
quiet zones issue fall?
I mean, it's been before council.
I just don't, you know, haven't heard of status in a while.
I know it's basically waiting on the railroad, right?
- Yes, sir.
He'll have more of the technical details,
but we were working very closely with UP Pacific.
They went through a major layoff last fall,
I believe it was.
- They went off hard contact?
- Basically, so as Mr. Polster said in his comments,
there's one gentleman that handles five states,
so that's a problem.
So we are, we do have an appointment set up
with Michael Morris in early April
to discuss a number of things, including this matter.
And so then hopefully to schedule up a conference call
with UP to see how we can move the project forward,
because we've had the quiet zone projects funded
for quite a bit of time.
We've worked closely with the consultants that they use.
We had everything in place,
and then they went through their layoffs,
and so everything got pushed back, so.
- I mean, just to, you know, underscore the point.
Now, first of all, you can remind me,
is the intersection where we're a detonator
woman lost her life, was that one of these crossings?
Okay, so it's, you know, quiet is like
a very important benefit that we want,
but we achieve the quiet by making safety improvements
that might have, you know, I don't know the details
to know whether this is a fact, but it might be the case
that these improvements might have saved her life.
So that kind of escalates it in my mind.
- Right, and we are in the process of, pre-TM,
along with the police department and Mark Oliphant,
worked together to come up with a design
to create a, I guess, almost like a swinging gate
type mechanism.
It would not be on the railroad right-of-way,
it would be actually on our own right-of-way,
so that, again, it doesn't preclude someone
from going around something and walking onto--
- Sounds like it would happen.
- But if it was in the sidewalk,
it at least, they'd have to make the effort
of pushing something to go through it.
- Yeah, so, I mean, just, I would say in your conversation
with the remaining employee, you know,
as you record a request, I would just underscore
that to you that it's a safety issue, right?
And it's, you know, that makes it a little higher.
- Absolutely.
- Anything else on the matrix?
- I have some items to add, is that now or concluding?
- Well, we don't really have concluding items,
so I think this is it.
- Okay, so I have a few things.
A question about the King's Row striping.
It's just still, like, chalk.
It hadn't been striped, or it's been paved,
but it hasn't been striped for a long time,
the one on the side of the fire station down.
I know that the opposite side of Sherman
is still getting redone, but there's no pavement,
or striping, or any reflectors,
and so it's hard to see at night there.
I would like to see a list of the projects
that can be used for TDC credits,
and I think we talked about that earlier,
but if we need to look at those and itemize them
of importance on this committee to help staff.
Also, I would like to ask Polster
to be on a call as soon as possible.
I know that you just recently had one,
but regarding the sidewalks,
but I think that that would be important
so that you can help with that.
We've waited a really long time.
And a discussion, I know that we've talked about discussions
about complete streets, but as we have,
I'm thinking about Windsor in particular,
that's about to be redone,
and I know that right now,
it's striped with the parking on the inside
and the bike lane on the outside,
and for the section in front of Strickland,
we talked about switching it,
and I just wanna have that discussion
about switching it all the way so that it's safer,
that the cars are parked,
and then the bike lane is protected against the curb.
If that's a conversation we need to have
before Windsor gets redone
so that it's planned appropriately for the striping.
That's all.
- And it occurs to me,
I don't know if this is really a matrix item,
strictly speaking, but I'm reminded
by the fact that we have great DCTA representation.
I'd love to hear an update at some point
on DCTA's plans for introducing more benches and shelters,
whether or not, if so where.
Also, did you say, pretend that,
you're talking about six and 10, right?
'Cause they go together.
- Yes. - Yeah, okay.
As far as moving them off.
- Anything else?
- I do have one, and I know this has been said many times
over the last, almost two years now,
but since we did hear that TexDOT
is doing their striping contract,
can we make sure we contact them about Fort Worth Drive?
Right where 377 splits off,
where you go from Fort Worth Drive to Carroll Boulevard
on the TexDOT side, where the lanes don't match up,
the actual concrete pour does not match up
with where the lanes are, and the striping is gone.
- Okay, I'll, okay, okay.
- Precham's only heard it, what, 20 times?
- I think, yeah, we only act after 25.
- Oh, okay. - Yeah.
All right, so I think we're all out of items,
so I'm going to close the meeting at 1117.
Thank you, everyone.